Began technical acceptance of the first batch of "Oplotov"

October 31 2013 of the year began the technical acceptance of the first batch of MBT Oplot in the number of 5 machines manufactured at the SE “Plant them. VAMalysheva "for the Royal Thai Army.

At the training ground in the city of Chuguev, "Holds" undergo fire and sea trials. Tanks experience in real conditions, in particular, during night firing.
After completion of the test, an act of technical acceptance will be signed and the “Oplots” will be sent to the foreign customer.

Recall that in September 2011, the contract entered into between the Ukrspetsexport Group and the Royal Thai Army Operational Directorate to supply 49 units of the Oplot main battle tank to Thailand entered into force. The total value of the contract substantially exceeds $ 200 million. Fulfillment of the said contract by the State Enterprise “Zavod im. V.A. Malysheva ”started in April 2012.

Comments

[major071]

I don’t want to say anything bad about the tank, but in the photo they are like cardboard. As for filming in some sort of second-rate film.

[Lord of the Sith]

This digital camouflage bothers you

The tank itself is a combat vehicle capable of fighting both at low air temperatures (−40 ° C) and at high (+55 ° C). "Hold" has good indicators of speed, maneuverability and maneuverability. The layout is classic - the control compartment is located in the bow, the fighting compartment is in the middle, and the motor-transmission compartment is in the stern of the tank. Compared to the T-80UD, several improvements have been made:
new welded-rolled tower;
thermal imaging sight;
satellite navigation system;
3rd generation dynamic protection “Knife”;
complex of optical-electronic countermeasures "Warta" ["Guard"];
digital fire control technology;
auxiliary power unit and more.

Tower and defense
The tank received a new welded-rolled tower with a completely stamped roof made of electroslag remelting, due to which it has higher strength and survivability. Given the simpler form of the tower, it was possible to successfully place multilayer armor in it. Its internal volume was also increased. In the frontal projection of the tower was placed a new dynamic defense of the 3rd generation of Ukrainian production "Knife".

weaponry
The Oplot has a 125 mm smoothbore gun with 40 rounds of ammunition, 28 of which are in the automatic loader. There is also a 12,7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun with ammunition for 450 rounds and anti-personnel 7,62 mm with ammunition for 1250 rounds.

Fire Control System (SLA)
stabilized day / night observation device of the commander TKN-4C "Agat";
1G46 Irtysh daily quantum rangefinder sight;
night sight (thermal imager);
ballistic computer with information input sensors;
weapon stabilizer 2E42;
sighting and navigation system PNK-6;
anti-aircraft mount PZU-7;
periscope observation devices.

Engine
The 6TD-6 two-stroke multi-fuel liquid-cooled diesel engine with liquid cooling has a capacity of 2 horsepower, a working volume of 1200 liters, a weight of 16,3 kg, a volumetric power of 1180 liters. s / l The rotational speed of the crankshaft is 73,6-800 rpm. The volume of the engine compartment is 3080 m³. Fuel used: diesel, aviation kerosene, gasoline (or any mixture in any proportion), as well as ethyl alcohol (provided that the operating time is not more than 3,1 hours). The specific power of the tank is 2 liters. s / t gives the tank good performance in cross-country ability and speed: 25-65 km / h on the highway and 70-45 km / h on the road.

[rubin6286]

I am not a tanker by training and VUS, but purely outwardly and according to the description, this tank seems to be a fairly modern machine, although it’s a bit heavy. I don’t know how it is with armor, but the specific power seems to me insufficient. I need at least up to 50 hp / t, a laser rangefinder, coupled with a ballistic computer, an aiming system that allows you to fire from an anti-aircraft machine gun, while inside the tank, equipment to overcome water barriers on the bottom and a system for creating excessive pressure to overcome infected areas, a satellite communications and navigation system. If all this will be. probably this tank can surpass the T-72 and T-80UD.

[Kars]

Quote: rubin6286

Need at least up to 50 hp / t

Can you name a modern tank with at least 30?

Quote: rubin6286

laser rangefinder

all tanks already have it.

Quote: rubin6286

allowing you to fire from an anti-aircraft machine gun, while inside the tank,

And what isn’t it?

Quote: rubin6286

If all this will be

Can you advise something else?
http://www.morozov.com.ua/rus/body/oplot_mbt.php

[clearance]

Buddy It seems that you are on the VUS - a digger from the VSS. Don't even get in. Go warm up with a shovel. In Robin you will find a lot of work!

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: klirens

In Robin you will find a lot of work!

Not all ammunition has been removed from Robin yet?

[Locksmith]

Quote: Sith Lord

working volume 16,3 liters, weight 1180 kg, volumetric capacity 73,6 liters. s / l

I was always interested in why for this engine ALWAYS indicate the working volume of half of the cylinders, because formally it is a 12 cylinder engine and its working volume should be TWO more, then everything will become quite ordinary, as with all modern diesel engines-36 hp.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Locksmith

I always wondered why for this engine ALWAYS indicate the working volume of half the cylinders, ...

This engine has only 6 cylinders (5TD has 5 cylinders). So, everything is correct. Another question is that it has nowhere to be forced higher, therefore the speed is one and a half times higher than that of B2.

[Locksmith]

Oops, I was mistaken, it was correctly written exactly 16 .2 liters

[sub307]

Thanks for the comprehensive information.

[builder]

Quote: major071

As for filming in some sort of second-rate film.

Inhabited island. They shot in the Crimea.

[ATATA]

Eeeeee ...
Sorry to cling to the top.
Who can explain the thread, if 2011 tanks were prepared from September 5, then when will the remaining 44 be prepared?
By 2031?
What are the plant capacities in Kharkov overloaded?
How much, this pride of the Soviet military-industrial complex can now produce tanks per year in fact?
Is that serial production?

[cashpoint]

There is such a thing as ORGANIZATION of mass production, it takes time, the manufacture of equipment, blanks of armor parts, etc. So everywhere. When everything comes out on stream, everything will be much faster.

[ATATA]

Quote: cashpoint

There is such a thing as ORGANIZATION of mass production, it takes time, the manufacture of equipment, blanks of armor parts, etc. So everywhere. When everything comes out on stream, everything will be much faster.

With such speed, they organize the serial production of ships, not tanks.
You yourself do not lie.
DEVELOP EYE!

[Vital 33]

The full production cycle of "Oplot" takes 14,5 months. Plus, minus a couple of weeks (for force majeure). And the ships you yourself know are building lope, in the same Russia ... Open the OCHI !!!

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

The full production cycle of "Oplot" takes 14,5 months. Plus, minus a couple of weeks (for force majeure). And the ships you yourself know are building lope, in the same Russia ... Open the OCHI !!!

It takes 9 months to build a modern aircraft, what is "OPLOT" more complicated?
Well, the plane is at 10 !!!! times more expensive !!!
Comparison with the ship was a hyperbole.
But judging by the timing of the construction of OPPOSITIONS, it is not so big.
For example, in 14 years, Russia built 12 !!!! submarines type Varshavyanka and 6 more in reserve. The average construction period is 2-3 years per unit from bookmark to transfer to the customer.
Your svidomye with OPLOT not far gone.
I'm just amazed !!!! How can you brainwash so as not to see the obvious ?????

[Akim]

Quote: ATATA

It takes 9 months to build a modern aircraft, what is "OPLOT" more complicated?

This year, three An-158s, two An-74s, and one An-148 DPRKs were handed over to Cuba. Here, the main thing is unraveling. In September, there were more than 20 tanks at varying degrees of readiness on ZiM. Now ten more have been laid.
You do not know the complete process. And I do not know. Therefore, do not talk nonsense. How the countdown begins is unknown to us.

[ATATA]

Quote: Akim

Now ten more have been laid.

Fresh tradition ...
Well, wait and see.
ps But vague doubts nevertheless gnaw, and what did not immediately lay 10, or 20?
What space is not enough?

[Akim]

Quote: ATATA

But vague doubts nevertheless gnaw, and what did not immediately lay 10, or 20?

And how much I know! It was said at the presentation of the first five that by the end of next year the contract will be completed. The next finished batch of 10 cars will be delivered in February.

[Igor010777]

The area hit the point partially sold partly under the lease, and that's how we live. And what if until recently there were practically no orders. There is a minimum of production workshops working for the defense industry.

[ATATA]

Ida!
Reception has begun!
I hope that this process will not be delayed.
I am waiting for the news that the acceptance is over and the tanks are accepted by the customer.

[roller2]

______________

[ATATA]

The main thing is that it would not end the same way!

[Avenger711]

More Cuba does not need airliners and the An-148 can be carried out, which has recently begun. the news of the abandonment of commercial operation of the An-148 in Ukraine was already on bmpd.

[Akim]

Quote: Avenger711

No more Cuba liners needed

Cuba has an order for six An-158s. There is a large order from Iran. To abandon the An-148/158 centuries in favor of SuperJet ... Well, if for the sake of principles you do not care about ordinary Russians, but please.

[Genry]

Superjet already has a service network on all continents. And AN is only at the factory.

[Akim]

Quote: Genry

Superjet already has a service network on all continents.

Yeah. And in Donetsk, when buying tickets to Moscow, they always try to take less. Apparently they don’t believe him.

[Kars]

Superjet already has a service network on all continents.

no money to put
The SSJ-100 aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCAC) increased its net loss almost threefold in January-September 2013 compared to the same period last year, according to the SCAC RAS ​​report.

The company's net loss increased from almost 2,545 billion rubles to 7,285 billion rubles. GSS revenue decreased from 4,1 billion rubles to 3,5 billion rubles. Cost of sales decreased from 5,23 billion to 4,49 billion rubles.

GSS management expenses increased 1,8 times - from 252 million rubles to 455,9 million rubles.
As of September 30, 2013, the company's long-term liabilities amount to almost 69,6 billion rubles (as of June 30 of the same year - 59,6 billion rubles), including the "borrowed funds" indicator - more than 62,6 billion rubles (three months ago it was 59,6 billion rubles).

Sukhoi Aviation Holding Company and Sukhoi Design Bureau own 75% plus 1 share of the SCAC, World's Wing SA (a subsidiary of Alenia Aermacchi, part of Finmeccanica) owns 25% plus 1 share.

[Alex63636363]

But the Donetsk actually have to fly everything to Cuba. There they will keep their anti-Russian comrades. Which president is zechara, such a country

[Akim]

Quote: Alex63636363

But the Donetsk actually have to fly everything to Cuba

Donetsk may be, the Donetsk people - no. Not every friend of Yanukovych is there.

[silver_roman]

Too thin. not everyone will understand such a significant difference)).

[Corsair]

Quote: silver_roman

Too thin. not everyone will understand such a significant difference))

Whoever needs it will understand ...

[Corsair]

Quote: Akim

Donetsk may be, the Donetsk people - no. Not every friend of Yanukovych is there.

Finally, you have voiced a sensible thought (regarding the Donbass and the so-called "Donetsk") ...

And the "joke" with a ticket to Cuba, is it a hint of Guantanamo ???

[Akim]

Quote: Corsair

And the "joke" with a ticket to Cuba, is it a hint of Guantanamo ???

Apparently.
In general, all my thoughts are sound. The fact that they do not run away from the general line of the United Russia party is great.

[Corsair]

Quote: Akim

In general, all my thoughts are sound. The fact that they do not run away from the general line of the United Russia party is great.

That's right, BUT the main thing is that your thoughts do not "run away" with the general line of the "Party of Rygons"
P \ S: I don’t praise myself ...

[Akim]

Quote: Corsair

so that your thoughts do not "run away" with the general line of the "Rygonov Party"

Then do not be offended if I reserve the right to insult your parties.

[Corsair]

Quote: Akim

Then do not be offended if I reserve the right to insult your parties.

What are we impressionable!

The "free interpretation" of the name "PR" given by me is in use in the BIGGER part of Ukraine.
Only in the "West" it is distorted in one context, in the REST part - in another ...
So get ready to "carry water"

[Akim]

Quote: Corsair

The "free interpretation" of the name "PR" given by me is in use in the BIGGER part of Ukraine

Do not fumble !. You’ll fit into each topic with its own policy. You will live in Ukraine, you will call them whatever you like. And so you insult OUR de ... mo.

[Corsair]

Quote: Akim

You will live in Ukraine, you will call them whatever you like. And so you insult OUR de ... mo.

Avot here, "sorry"! At one time, being still a "big man of the square", I "brought" (to my deepest shame) the "Party of Rygons" and Yanukovych to power, having cast my vote for them in the elections.
So, I HAVE THE LAW!

[Akim]

Quote: Corsair

I "brought" (to my deepest shame) the "Rygonov Party" and Yanukovych to power, giving them my vote in the elections.
So, I HAVE THE LAW!

Do not tell my horseshoes. (horse Julius)
Dmitry Kisilev generally then had to shoot himself live, because he was wildly PR, working as a host on ICTV, Yanyka. The one that does not torment itself

[maxvet]

Quote: Akim

You will live in Ukraine, you will call them whatever you like. And so you insult OUR de ... mo.

Quote: Akim

Then do not be offended if I reserve the right to insult your parties.

Quote: Akim

The fact that they do not run away from the general line of the United Russia party is great.

I see in logic I do not understand anything

[Akim]

Quote: maxvet

I see in logic I do not understand anything

Apparently. Perhaps it’s hard for you to understand how a person does not like local authorities. but nevertheless protects the country.

[maxvet]

Quote: Akim

The fact that they do not run away from the general line of the United Russia party,

so for you what it may matter?

[Akim]

Quote: maxvet

so for you what it may matter?

This is when Vesti Itogi will present its point of view to millions of Russians, not the Kremlin ...

[Patriot.ru.]

You have propaganda against all Russian .... Russian ...

[Akim]

Quote: Patriot.ru.

You have propaganda against all Russian .... Russian ...

Do not carry nonsense. Although you are not to blame for this. This is the policy of your elite, and your media sing along to them.
http://rutv.ru/brand/show/episode/686302
We have no denial. Do the right thing and do it well.
Just do not identify Russia with the authorities and Ukraine, too

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Akim

Cuba has an order for six An-158s. There is a large order from Iran .....

And we still do not have an aircraft (MS-21) and the order portfolio is full:

"....During the air show, the order portfolio for the MS-21 was replenished with 82 cars, the amount of transactions reached almost 6,7 billion dollars. Orders for 30 aircraft from VEB-Leasing and 22 aircraft from Ilyushin Finance Co. were transferred to firm contracts. (IFC); in addition, IrAero signed a contract for 10 aircraft, and Sberbank Leasing signed a preliminary agreement for 20 aircraft. The cost of cars in these transactions, depending on the configuration, ranged from 72 to 85 million dollars.

Prior to the air show, the overall portfolio of orders for the MS-21 was 256 aircraft, including 135 firm orders... The start of commercial operation of the aircraft is scheduled for 2017 .... "

http://www.ato.ru/content/ms-21-gotovitsya-k-massovoy-serii
From the same link
"... Irkut Corporation handed over the 500th set of the front landing gear niche for the A320 family aircraft to the European aircraft manufacturer Airbus. Airbus has been cooperating with Irkut since 2004, the corporation has been producing front landing gear niches, flap guides and keel beams. (since 2009, deliveries have been made through Aerolia, which produces A320 fuselage sections for Airbus.) Currently, Irkut supplies 12 sets per month (144 sets per year) ... "

[Akim]

Quote: Bad_gr

And we still do not have an aircraft (MS-21) and the order portfolio is full:

Well, good. What should I gloat or envy? No. The MS-21 will be able to oust Boeing and Busik and the Chinese COMAC C919 - fine.

[roller2]

You probably specifically forgot to clarify that the planes did not belong to UIA and they already have a rather large debt to Antonov for their use. In this connection, Antonov took the planes and transferred them to another carrier, which is ready to pay

[voliador]

The countdown begins with the project, or rather, with its protection and launching the product in series. And you still didn’t really have a project, but they have already started selling. I would not be surprised if they were cheated with these five, but I was lucky. I wonder what is the term of the contract? 2050?

[patsantre]

Oh yes, as many as 6 planes, Americans just nervously smoke.

[Akim]

Quote: patsantre

Oh yes, as many as 6 planes, Americans just nervously smoke

Yes, at least 50 a year. Anyway, say LITTLE.

[patsantre]

And what, in your opinion 6, is a bit a bit close to decency?
And yes, 50 is not enough.

[Akim]

Quote: patsantre

And what, in your opinion 6, is a bit a bit close to decency?

And how many rich Russia produced passenger aircraft this year? (Ana-140 for MO can also be considered).

[Vital 33]

How long have these frigates and destroyers been built (here's too lazy to look for names)? And when was the aircraft carrier supposed to be handed over to the Indians? I don't care, everyone has difficulties, only you see the negative everywhere except in yourself. It is very bad that it takes so long to build both ships in Russia and tanks in Ukraine, but such is the "selyavi" ...
Well at least mastered the full production cycle, and at least something is being done.

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

How many frigates and destroyers are being built (laziness to look for names)? How many years already?

I remind you, we are not talking about ships.
I just gave an example that the construction time of tanks in Kharkov today is approaching the construction time of ships (possibly even space )

Quote: Vital 33

Well at least mastered the full production cycle, and at least something is being done.

What do you mean well and mastered, he was there !!!!
The term for completing the contract is the end of 2014!
Do not wait long. Wait and see.

[Vital 33]

I remind you, we are not talking about ships.
I just gave an example that the terms for building tanks in Kharkov today are approaching the dates for building ships (maybe even space laughing)
Why not talk about ships? And do not compare with the same China or Korea? There is nothing to say ... And by the way, how long is the construction of the t-90? Just wondering...

What do you mean well and mastered, he was there !!!!
There was no FULL cycle. This, when implementing the Pakistani contract, came around. But well done, they got out and set up their own release of guns, etc. And by the way they did, and there the quantity was an order of magnitude greater.

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

mu not talk about ships? And do not compare with the same China, or Korea? There is nothing to say.

Compare while with Ukraine, look for yourself on the net to me laziness. I imagine the result, give a discount of 3 times the population.

Quote: Vital 33

And by the way, how much is the construction of the t-90? Just wondering...

2009-2012 Russia exported 806 units.
2013-2016 (plan) 758 units.
Feel the difference!

[Vital 33]

Compare while with Ukraine, look for yourself on the net to me laziness. I imagine the result, give a discount of 3 times the population.
And where is the number? Do you think they are building ants in the hundreds of thousands? They took five thousand anchors and carried them? And what are more people in Korea? And why compare with Ukraine? You compare where it’s worse, and you compare where it’s better. And what is it here .. well, I already know, and this is bad.
2009-2012 Russia exported 806 units.
2013-2016 (plan) 758 units.
Feel the difference!
How many exported this is not the answer. Anything can be there. The plan is also not a "fact". Who knows (I'm just wondering) what is the production cycle of one tank from start to finish?

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

And why compare with Ukraine?

And why not?
You compare Russia with Korea, not Korea with the USA!

Quote: Vital 33

not just interesting) how long is the production cycle for making one tank from start to finish?

You yourself wrote ...

Quote: Vital 33

takes 14,5 months

I doubt the current very much.

Quote: Vital 33

How many exported is not the answer.

And what is the answer?
What is the criterion? Write.

[Vital 33]

I asked how much the T-90s are doing, or do you want to read more to protect the blind to the end? How many strongholds do I know ...
The "export" may include previously produced, this time, and secondly, you did not write that this is exactly the T-90. And the "plan 758" units is what? t-90? So it seems like the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decided not to buy the T-90, but to "cut" the T72? Clarify pzhlst.
And about comparisons, so you started comparing. And then you can compare with some sort of country where they do not make tanks, or ships, and then Ukraine will be super super))). Everything is relative...

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

I asked how much the T-90s are doing, or are you in a desire to get a little stronger in the blind?

I dont know. There are no links in tyrnet.
I strongly suspect that you, as regards OPLOT, used either unverified information or poked a finger at the sky (a link would be nice).

Quote: Vital 33

So it seems like the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decided not to buy the T-90, but to "cut" the T72? Clarify pzhlst.

I wrote only !!!! About export, there are no dopped T72s for the Russian Defense Ministry. The figures indicated are export only!
In the export of tanks, Russia is a world leader!
Study the question at your leisure.

Quote: Vital 33

And then you can compare with some sort of country where they do not make tanks, or ships, and then Ukraine will be super super))). Everything is relative...

I agree soon Ukraine will compare itself with Limpopo, and not with the capacities of the Ukrainian SSR.

[Vital 33]

If you do not know, why are you "happy" then? Maybe the T-90 is doing even longer ... As for the link on the "stronghold" I'll try to find it.
Why with Limpopo? Thailand itself does not make tanks, and buys from us ... and armored personnel carriers too. As for the Ukrainian SSR, you have enough. I would like to, but ... You can’t compare with Russia since the times of the USSR either, so such comparisons are useless ... it’s not sad.
The publication with reference to the State Concern "Ukroboronprom" reports: "The production cycle of the BM" Oplot "takes 14,5 months. This is a complex high-tech product that allows" Oplot "to remain one of the best examples of armored vehicles in the world. The main manufacturer of the tank is GP" Plant them. Malysheva ". Components and basic materials are supplied by 137 enterprises, including 21 members of the Concern."
http://www.i-mash.ru/news/zarub_sobytiya/34018-jeskpert-ukraina-nachnet-masso...

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

You can’t compare with Russia since the USSR either, so such comparisons are useless ... it’s not sad.

The RSFSR modern Russia is already surpassed.
The RSFSR, for example, built 75 lemons m2 of housing in 1989, and Russia in 2012 built about 140!
The Ukrainian SSR in 1989 built 25 Lyamov, and in 2012 built 5 !!!!!
I’m telling you as a construction customer.
Our company operates in 7 regions of the Russian Federation, we will not go to Ukraine!
NO ECONOMIC ACTIVITY !!!!!!!
That sounds like a sentence!

[Vital 33]

And where does the housing ????? Are we talking about ships and tanks? Or am I missing something? And why the year 89? When the collapse and poverty are already there, take it early ...
And yes, do not go to Ukraine !!! There is someone to build ... there is no current money))))

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

And where does the housing ????? Are we talking about ships and tanks?

So Ukraine has not surpassed how much!
Only degradation!
And for housing, this is an indicator!
Because for people.
And ships and tanks, this is a derivative.
And in 89 collapse and poverty there was no Soviet pearl machine like a skating rink!

[Vital 33]

How do you know that you have not exceeded? So they say NTV?
It’s great that you have such a place with housing, and I congratulate you ... But still, we were talking about something else. It’s the same as if I suddenly said that Ukraine takes the first place in the world in the export of sunflower oil ... To what? If we are about the construction of military equipment and ships ...
And by the way, in 89, there were already empty shelves and sellers of current sales ... Maybe in Moscow it was different, but the union was already in a mess of perestroika in full growth.

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

And by the way, in 89, there were already empty shelves and sellers of current sales ... Maybe in Moscow it was different, but the union was already in a mess of perestroika in full growth.

I myself come from Tula.
There were empty shelves there, and relatives in Odessa (Belgorod Dniester) district city, the shelves were breaking.
The relatives brought us a TV from there, since we had a turn for 12 months.
So tell these tales to your grandchildren, who did not live under the USSR (large Russia). Central Russia took off underwear for the sake of the outskirts.
Yes, it’s not horse feed.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: ATATA

Central Russia took off underwear for the sake of the outskirts.

I confirm.
He grew up in the 57th region, studied in Odessa, in 1986 went to work in Arkhangelsk.
Oil Painting.

[Avenger711]

And in what has surpassed? There is no need to look for conspiracy theories, production statistics, no one forges on a national scale, because then leadership will be impossible.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: Vital 33

How do you know that you have not exceeded? So they say NTV? It’s great that you have such a place with housing, and I congratulate you ... But still, we were talking about something else. It’s the same as if I suddenly said that Ukraine takes the first place in the world in the export of sunflower oil ... To what? If we are talking about the construction of military equipment and ships ... And by the way, in 89, there were already empty shelves and current sellers on sale ... Maybe in Moscow it was different, but the mess of perestroika in full growth was already going on in the union.

I’m reading your correspondence and will express myself on the side of your opponent. You do not want to admit obvious things. At the time of the collapse, Russia was inferior to many Ukraine, especially in the field of industry. Huge power went to you. And so the result, today Ukraine in two years produced 5 tanks for the customer. And is it called success? Russia, however, re-recreated many industries, including those that remained in Ukraine. And today it exports under 1000 tanks a year. Not just tanks.
But the article is about tanks. Why is it important and the next holivar began? Yes, because Ukraine follows a path hostile to Russia, which means that our tanks will compete in foreign markets. And you think that the stronghold will be able to compete with the T-90MS? With such production facilities?
The same is true for AN. It is important not only the quality and cost of the product itself, but also the service. Ukraine alone simply has no chance. You understand that the contracts with Iraq and Thailand were adopted under the auspices of the United States in order to support the current Ukrainian authorities in their movement to the West. As soon as you find yourself there, there will be no such support and they will trample you. And 25 million Russians living in Ukraine ... This is sad.

[Kars]

Quote: Gluxar_

At the time of the collapse, Russia was inferior to many Ukraine, especially in the field of industry.

Yes, well? Can you document this? Moscow Leningad. Novosibirsk Urals?

Quote: Gluxar_

And so the result, today Ukraine in two years produced 5 tanks for the customer. And is it called success?

The Russian Federation got 3 tank plants (if 4 with Chelyabinsk) and where is all this? Azerbaijan did 90 pieces for two years, and this is with a constant cycle.

Quote: Gluxar_

And today it exports under 1000 tanks a year.

But this is a lie.

Quote: Gluxar_

. Why is it important and the next holivar began?

because any even minimal success of Ukraine is somewhat across the throat.

Quote: Gluxar_

Yes, because Ukraine follows a path hostile to Russia, which means that our tanks will compete in foreign markets.

And which way should Ukraine go in order for the Russian Federation to destroy the UVZ and start buying Ukrainian tanks))))

Quote: Gluxar_

And you think that the stronghold will be able to compete with the T-90MS

You can already forget about the T-90MS. And the pace is not the main thing here.

Quote: Gluxar_

You understand that the contracts with Iraq and Thailand were accepted under the auspices of the United States,

Prove it in Thailand? Why, by the way, is Thailand then buying Russian helicopters?

Quote: Gluxar_

This is sad.

lycimeria.

[Firstvanguard]

Or maybe enough shit?
I am glad that normal men in Ukraine are busy with normal things and in many ways successfully. Unlike politicians. It is a pity that we now live in different states in many ways competing.
The West won a huge victory, dismembering the USSR. But to draw the borders is half the battle, it is necessary to divide the people, to bring discord into the minds and confusion into the souls. I read you and somehow sad, the Anglo-Saxons succeeded in this ...

[Gluxar_]

Quote: Firstvanguard

Or maybe it’s enough fucking ??? I’m glad that normal men in Ukraine are busy with normal things and in many ways successfully. Unlike politicians. It is a pity that we now live in different states that are largely competing. The West won a huge victory, dismembering the USSR. But to draw the borders is half the battle, it is necessary to divide the people, to bring discord into the minds and confusion into the souls. I read you and somehow sad, the Anglo-Saxons succeeded in this ...

This disaster happened much earlier. We live today and need to think about the future. I am also happy for the Ukrainians that they will upgrade their tank. This is good for them. Is it good for Russia? In many ways, no. Competition is not bad, but when Kitev dumps and makes political concessions for the sake of today's contracts, then this is no longer fair competition. Moreover, this also affects the Ukrainians themselves. The tanks bought and will buy. Tanks will disappear from the battlefield only when people become immortal or vice versa cease to value their lives. But it will not be people anymore. As long as a bullet can kill you, then you want a barrier in its path. the tank is such an obstacle and will remain so forever, it doesn’t matter if someone sits in the NKM or will control it remotely. The essence of the car will not change - it is firepower and strong protection.
So the tanks will buy. Hence, it is beneficial to join forces and sell together, and not compete with each other by bringing down prices. The USA will sell much fewer tanks during this time, but for a much larger amount. simply because there is no alternative, but the Russian Federation and Ukraine are dumping. Abrams did not meet with the T-90 in an equal fight, therefore the Americans can advertise it as they want. And buyers, having no choice, are forced to buy at the price they call. The T-80 "Oplot" and the T-90 "Tagil" are in many ways similar, hence the different position on the market.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: Firstvanguard

Or maybe it’s enough fucking ??? I’m glad that normal men in Ukraine are busy with normal things and in many ways successfully. Unlike politicians. It is a pity that we now live in different states that are largely competing. The West won a huge victory, dismembering the USSR. But to draw the borders is half the battle, it is necessary to divide the people, to bring discord into the minds and confusion into the souls. I read you and somehow sad, the Anglo-Saxons succeeded in this ...

Quote: Firstvanguard

Or maybe it’s enough fucking ??? I’m glad that normal men in Ukraine are busy with normal things and in many ways successfully. Unlike politicians. It is a pity that we now live in different states that are largely competing. The West won a huge victory, dismembering the USSR. But to draw the borders is half the battle, it is necessary to divide the people, to bring discord into the minds and confusion into the souls. I read you and somehow sad, the Anglo-Saxons succeeded in this ...

This disaster happened much earlier. We live today and need to think about the future. I am also happy for the Ukrainians that they will upgrade their tank. This is good for them. Is it good for Russia? In many ways, no. Competition is not bad, but when Kitev dumps and makes political concessions for the sake of today's contracts, then this is no longer fair competition. Moreover, this also affects the Ukrainians themselves. The tanks bought and will buy. Tanks will disappear from the battlefield only when people become immortal or vice versa cease to value their lives. But it will not be people anymore. As long as a bullet can kill you, then you want a barrier in its path. the tank is such an obstacle and will remain so forever, it doesn’t matter if someone sits in the NKM or will control it remotely. The essence of the car will not change - it is firepower and strong protection.
So the tanks will buy. Hence, it is beneficial to join forces and sell together, and not compete with each other by bringing down prices. The USA will sell much fewer tanks during this time, but for a much larger amount. simply because there is no alternative, but the Russian Federation and Ukraine are dumping. Abrams did not meet with the T-90 in an equal fight, therefore the Americans can advertise it as they want. And buyers, having no choice, are forced to buy at the price they call. The T-80 "Oplot" and the T-90 "Tagil" are in many ways similar, hence the different position on the market.

As for the friendship of peoples, it is good. But if people made their choice, then this is their choice. Better to be in the minority, but without traitors in their ranks.

[Leisure]

I apologize for getting in, but where is the tank factory in Chelyabinsk?

[Gluxar_]

Yes, well? Can you document this? Moscow Leningad. Novosibirsk Urals?

Are you that illiterate? Have you looked everywhere and checked everything? Or a typical "Ukrainian style" you can't do anything yourself, want to be looked for for you?

The Russian Federation got 3 tank plants (if 4 with Chelyabinsk) and where is all this? Azerbaijan did 90 pieces for two years, and this is with a constant cycle.

You show your stupidity again. In 2011 alone, Russia exported 338 MBTs, in 2012, 150 units. For the billing period from 2007 to 2014, it is planned to export 1291 MBT. And for the period from 2007 to 2010, 603 MBT were delivered. On average, 161 tanks per year or one tank in 2,5 days for 8 years without a break.



because any even minimal success of Ukraine is somewhat across the throat.What kind of success? Lobbied US contracts? Ukraine had a supercontract with Iraq and Ukraine flushed it safely down the toilet. The only significant income for Ukraine comes from contracts for the resale of other Soviet T-72s. Made 5 of their "new" tanks and well done. I'm just glad, just a little surprised by the amount of production and the time frame.

And which way should Ukraine go in order for the Russian Federation to destroy the UVZ and start buying Ukrainian tanks))))

Yes, let him go whatever he wants. I just feel sorry for people from such factories. It is difficult to compete when you produce 5 tanks each and this is when hundreds were previously produced.

You can already forget about the T-90MS. And the pace is not the main thing here.

I can do a lot of things. But do not forget about the T-90ms. No matter what modification. But of the most modern tanks that are produced today, the T-90 has already become and will remain the most massive. And that is a fact. Also, do not forget that the design of a completely new platform and this is another step forward.

Prove it in Thailand? Why, by the way, is Thailand then buying Russian helicopters?

Who are you to prove something to you? Dig yourself and find where all the strings lead. As for the Russian helicopters, they are simply the best and no lobbying will help here.

[Kars]

Quote: Gluxar_

are you so illiterate? Have you searched everywhere and checked everything?

Are you so literate that you do not bother with evidence?

Quote: Gluxar_

You show your stupidity again. In 2011 alone, Russia exported 338 MBTs, in 2012, 150 units. XNUMX

And? The Kharkov tank under the USSR produced 800 tanks a year? Then what? And the fact that the Russian Federation blew up three tank plants.

Quote: Gluxar_

Billing period from 2007 to 2014, it is planned to export 1291 MBT.

And the main buyer is India,

Quote: Gluxar_

It is difficult to compete when you produce 5 tanks each and this is when hundreds were previously produced.

Now everything is complicated-England has closed the tank factory. France has not produced new tanks for 15 years already)) Time is now.

Quote: Gluxar_

Today, the T-90 has already become and will remain the most massive. And it is a fact

Well, massive, does not mean the best - the Cossacks also released more than the Bugatti)))

Quote: Gluxar_

Also, do not forget that the design of a completely new platform and this is another step forward.

When will it be yet.

Quote: Gluxar_

Who are you to prove something to you?

The one who says that you yap and balabol.

Quote: Gluxar_

. As for Russian helicopters, they are simply the best and there is no lobbying anymore

how trite - if they buy Russian it’s the best and there’s nothing to lobby for, if they buy Ukrainian it’s only at the direction of Uncle Sema)))

[Gluxar_]

Are you so literate that you do not bother with evidence?

To bother myself with evidence of obvious facts seems unreasonable to me. You can look in TSB and read there.

And? The Kharkov tank under the USSR produced 800 tanks a year? Then what? And the fact that the Russian Federation blew up three tank plants.

Well, you clearly reveal yourself. You are a troll or an extremely stupid person. You are trying to put my own arguments against me. I said that under the USSR, only Kharkov made 800 tanks a year. And today there are 5 tanks in more than 5 years. Apart from the "painting" of the T-72 and resale. Russia today, not 30 years ago, produces a tank every two days. And who fucked up what? Do you even hear yourself or write nonsense because this is how a troll should be?

And the main buyer is India,

Here it is. India, the largest arms buyer in the world. And the most coveted for all sellers. And that means he had a choice and he chose the best. This is a fact, and you are blind.

Now everything is complicated-England has closed the tank factory. France has not produced new tanks for 15 years already)) Time is now.

Not everywhere. Russia doesn’t close tank plants. It’s hard for the West, because the world has woken up from this economic yoke and is starting to think with its own head. But Ukraine on the contrary happily jumps into this swamp. Good luck there at the bottom.

Well, massive, does not mean the best - the Cossacks also released more than the Bugatti)))

The main thing is that the people who release it have a job and they have something to feed their families. And what is the best tan, so long as there has not been a direct collision, anyone can be the best. In peacetime, you need to look at demand.

When will it be yet.

Another stupid question. In metal, the new platform has already been presented at a private show. But this is not so important .you again went into the wilds. It is important that T-72/90 is bought today in its modifications and bought in bulk. And that means they will buy Armata. When the time comes. This is called quality recognition.

The one who says that you yap and balabol.

That's it. And nothing more. Therefore, to trouble yourself with the answers to the troll is not of the suit.

how trite - if they buy Russian it’s the best and there’s nothing to lobby for, if they buy Ukrainian it’s only at the direction of Uncle Sema)))

Well, if Americans buy Russian helicopters when the economy is bent to them, then this is an admission that they are really the best.

[Kars]

Quote: Gluxar_

the obvious facts seem unreasonable to me.

When it seems, baptism is recommended.
I repeat

Quote: Gluxar_

At the time of the collapse, Russia was inferior to many Ukraine, especially in the field of industry

THIS IS NONSENSE.

Quote: Gluxar_

This I said that during the USSR only Kharkov made 800 tanks a year. And today 5 tanks are more than 5 le

And what of THIS? Are you aware that the USSR has collapsed? And against the backdrop of these 800 tanks a year, the efforts of UVZ in the Russian Federation do not differ much from the successes of Ukraine. At the same time, the Russian Federation managed to lose two tank KBs (better than UVZ) and three tank plants.

Quote: Gluxar_

Not everywhere. Russia doesn’t close tank plants.

By the way, China, too, and it makes more tanks for its army than the Russian Federation.

Quote: Gluxar_

It’s hard for the West, because the world woke up from this economic yoke and begins to think with its own head

They ridiculed. Probably still think that the Cold War did not end, and the Warsaw Pact exists.

Quote: Gluxar_

The main thing is that the people who release it have a job and they have something to feed their families.

And what except tanks you can’t do anything else?

Quote: Gluxar_

And what is the best tan so long as there was no direct collision, then anyone can be the best

According to the performance characteristics it is also very possible to compare.

Quote: Gluxar_

In peacetime, you need to look at demand.

Well, again, there is less demand for Maybach than for Lada Kalina, and according to this Kalina is a masterpiece of the automotive world?

Quote: Gluxar_

. In metal, the new platform has already been presented at a private show

Have you personally watched? If not, it’s not considered))

[Kars]

Quote: Gluxar_

. It is important that T-72 / 90 are bought today in its modifications and are bought in bulk

Who buys them? Would you look at BTT sales reports in the world.

Quote: Gluxar_

And that means they will buy Armata. When the time comes.

Why? Based on what did you draw such a conclusion?

Quote: Gluxar_

That's it. And nothing more

And for me on the Internet this is enough.

Quote: Gluxar_

Therefore, to trouble yourself with the answers to the troll is not of the suit

You hike from the ZK? At least what's the difference if you confirmed that you are a balobol and a dreamer.

Quote: Gluxar_

Well, if Americans buy Russian helicopters when the economy is bent to them, then this is an admission that they are really the best.

Americans buy it for Afghanistan, and because they (Russians) are cheaper.
And by the way, based on these your words, if you take it as an axiom

Quote: Gluxar_

As for Russian helicopters, they are simply the best and no lobbying will help here

That Russian tanks are not the best, and since Thailand buys all the best, Russian helicopters, and Ukrainian tanks, then automatically BM Oplot becomes better.

[builder]

There is nothing to be particularly proud of. In the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR, housing for the people was free. In the RSFSR, Russian builders who received a specialty in a vocational school or technical school worked as specialists, and semi-wild Uzbek Tajiks are building in Russia, the quality of work is questionable. Take away oil and gas from the Russian economy, I think there’s nothing to brag about.

[ATATA]

Quote: stroitel

Lo free. In the RSFSR, Russian builders worked in a construction site who received a specialty in a vocational school or technical school - specialists

What year are you born?
The composition of workers at a construction site in the 80s:
15% workers from vocational schools
15% of the contracts (white bone. They came for the apartment, as they received the apartment they usually left)
35% chemists (convicted)
35 construction battalion (Uzbeks, Tajiks and others, others, others)
Here it is. I saw this, but you can see your stories about the personnel at the construction sites of the RSFSR based on old posters.
Not to mention quality now and then, it is heaven and earth.
Then the quality of housing was not even dreamed of.

[builder]

Not to mention quality now and then, it is heaven and earth.
Then the quality of housing was not even dreamed of.
What are you saying? I do not want to discuss the quality problem in construction on this site. One thing is, in the Union, the quality of housing may not have been high, but housing was free. And now, for fabulous money, people are buying apartments (getting into bondage for decades) that are not safe for living. The goals of people involved in the construction business are not providing the population with housing, but obtaining superprofits (which are achieved by using labor migrant workers, saving on materials and design. Yes, and the designers are still ...

[The fat man]

let's say that after the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine turned into a banana republic, imagine that the pace of industrial production is zero. Tell me, dear, why is your gloating really clever about you? And your causticity is not entirely correct.
How about the joy of that, Ukrainian products have reached the world level. one of the Asian tigers opted for OPLOT instead of Leopards and Abrams. Trust me Thais are overly pedantic in finances and don’t throw money away

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

As for the link on the "stronghold" I'll try to find it.

I'm waiting!

[Vital 33]

see above.

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

see above.

Duplicate. Pliz!
These are not those sucked from the finger, unsubstantiated 14,5?

[Vital 33]

What to duplicate? If the link is how to lay out everything, I do not know. If it's not difficult for you, go to the search engine and type "The production cycle of the tank Oplot", it takes 15 seconds. I searched with Mail ru.

[ATATA]

Quote: Vital 33

If it's not difficult for you, go to the search engine and type "The production cycle of the tank Oplot", it takes 15 seconds. I was looking with Mail ru.

https://www.google.ru/search?q=%22&oq=%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59.920j0j8&source

id = chrome & espv = 210 & es_sm = 93 & ie = UTF-8
Explain.
yes so soap, not very authoritative links gives.
Frankly speaking.
Here su 27 (analogue) build 9 months, and the tank 14,5!
But why is a plane 10 times more expensive?

[SkiF_RnD]

As for the cost, you are certainly not right. You can’t be so categorical. After all, the price does not depend much on the time of manufacture, and the complexity of production does not necessarily translate into a higher price or a longer production cycle. It all depends on production capacity, on the technologies used, and so on. For example, the MiG-21 cost the Union cheaper than the BMP-1. How do you like this comparison?

[Kars]

I wouldn’t waste time in your place. ATATA is insane. In an emergency, he and all things.

[Avenger711]

"The production cycle of the Oplot tank" takes 15 seconds.

[Avenger711]

And don't worry, in a couple of years the Armata will fail, or it won't give obvious results, and the T-90 will go to the RF Armed Forces again. BMP-3, already there. It's just that the problem with the "Armata" and "Kurganets" is, in general, conceptual, they are the fruit of hysterics that the Soviet must be changed. Well, it can and should be changed, only it should be done as in aviation, where 2015 new fighters are now ordered only until 108, this is without taking into account 16 Su-30M2 and T-50s, you can safely cut until 2020. And the "Armata" by itself, if it has a layout with an uninhabited turret, will require solving a number of issues, for example, a critical AZ on such a machine will immediately make it completely incapacitated, that is, it is necessary to make such a machine, but it is not necessary to require it to replace the classic schemes.

[ATATA]

Quote: Avenger711

And the "Armata" by itself, if it has a layout with an uninhabited tower, will require solving a number of issues, for example, a critical AZ on such a machine will make it immediately completely unusable

A crit of the gun makes any tank incapacitated, so what?
Go to the kernel?

[Avenger711]

By the way, even in this case there is a chance to fix it if the crew is in the tower.

[Avenger711]

China is also purchasing ships from Russia.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: ATATA

What does it mean well and mastered, he was there !!!! The term for completing the contract is the end of 2014! Do not wait long. Wait and see.

There is an order for only 49 cars. This is not 2000 units. I think the Ukrainians will cope, the main thing is that the quality does not disappoint. What is the story of Iraqi armored vehicles?

[Avenger711]

Regarding the aircraft carrier and a number of other funny stories with the Indians. Hindus did everything on time, according to their wishes. If they saved on something, and then it flew, then according to the results of the investigation they had no complaints and paid for additional work. So do not la la. And we are not looking for negative, we are just waiting for it with popcorn, because we understand perfectly well that the level of degradation of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex is such that it only delivers great changes, as with armored personnel carriers for Iraq. After that, Svidomo begin to look for zrada in everything, and certainly in Moscow. You need to understand the difference between the failures of the Russian defense industry, which, as a rule, are surmountable, and complete impotence.

[REZMovec]

Quote: Avenger711

... But we are not looking for negativity, we are just waiting for it with popcorn, because we are well aware that the level of degradation of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex is such that it only delivers great gains, as with armored personnel carriers for Iraq. After that, Svidomo begin to look for zrada in everything, and certainly in Moscow. You need to understand the difference between the failures of the Russian defense industry, which, as a rule, are surmountable, and complete impotence.

Exactly. Show at least one photo with cracked armor on an Iraqi batch of armored personnel carriers. No such? And then the Iraqis buy a batch of Russian BTR-82. The one who gave more "kickback" is "the APC is dancing". Everything is clear as daylight. There is no need to sneer at the Ukrainian military-industrial complex - watch your own. Where is your vaunted "Armata"? "Kurganets"? and so on?
Laughs the one who laughs last ...

[Avenger711]

There is no demand from "Armata" yet and objectively there is no need for it. Iraq has not yet bought any armored personnel carriers from the Russian Federation, but I am inclined to trust more the banal technical inconsistency of Ukrainian products than conspiracy.

[REZMovec]

Quote: Avenger711

There is no demand from "Armata" yet and objectively there is no need for it. Iraq has not yet bought any armored personnel carriers from the Russian Federation, but I am inclined to trust more the banal technical inconsistency of Ukrainian products than conspiracy.

Your inclinations do not interest anyone. FACTS in the form of photographs, videos ... The rest is boltology. Take care of the quality of your products.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: Vital 33

The full production cycle of "Oplot" takes 14,5 months. Plus, minus a couple of weeks (for force majeure). And the ships you yourself know are building lope, in the same Russia ... Open the OCHI !!!

So do Ukrainians build one tank each? Or are there few workshops? More like a garage refinement warehouse 80-current.

[Su24]

Quote: ATATA

Quote: cashpoint

There is such a thing as ORGANIZATION of mass production, it takes time, the manufacture of equipment, blanks of armor parts, etc. So everywhere. When everything comes out on stream, everything will be much faster.

With such speed, they organize the serial production of ships, not tanks.
You yourself do not lie.
DEVELOP EYE!

It is you who develop your eyes and do not be naive. Tanks did not begin to be collected immediately. 2 years before the start of the first deliveries, this is normal for new equipment.

[ATATA]

Quote: Su24

not immediately. 2 years before the start of the first deliveries, this is normal for new equipment.

5 pcs in 2 years ?!
On the Kharkov tank?

[Avenger711]

The deadline has already been broken. Opportunities for mass production of armored vehicles Ukraine no longer has.

[REZMovec]

Quote: Avenger711

Reply

Pis_ aunt - not to carry bags ...

[Avenger711]

And do not do tanks.

[alex86]

Quote: ATATA

How much is this Soviet pride

Forgive me, please, but already got enough - after the word "how many" there should not be a comma - and where does this manner of putting commas come from, wherever it gets - the Unified State Exam, or what?

[ATATA]

Quote: alex86

and where does this manner of putting commas come from, wherever you get it - the exam, or what?

And here, what is the exam?
Go check spelling on specialized sites.

[alex86]

Quote: ATATA

And here, what is the exam?

The comma is not placed after "here", but after "what". And for a normal presentation, neither special efforts nor specialized sites are needed - basic literacy is needed. And you don't need to react like that - I didn't say anything offensive. The manner of expressing one's thoughts in "Albanian" may have a right to exist, but it always testifies, first of all, to the inability to express one's thoughts in Russian. Do not be offended ...

[ATATA]

Quote: alex86

The comma is not placed after "here", but after "what".

I tell you.
Learn to read and write on other sites.

[alex86]

Well, what are you offended, the letter is needed on any sites.
And with commas it’s not difficult - where the comma is put, an intonation pause is made during pronunciation - say what is written and everything will become clearer.
And once again - no need to be offended, in 77 in the exam in the Russian language for the 8th grade I was given 3 points only because it was indecent to put 2. And now my daughter, who is already 30 years old, says: "Imagine, which means today's "5" compared to your "3" - apparently, "minus 5".
Once again - no need to be offended, nothing personal, it's Russian ...

[alex86]

I’ll answer myself - even if someone would argue, this site is full of people who assert the primacy of "Russianness", so no, they put the minuses - that is, they disagree (with what, excuse me? ...), but to say, they say, You are wrong, comrade, because of this and because of this - so after all, no, therefore, these "miners" are protesting not because I am wrong somewhere, but because they insist on their right to write illiterately. And there would be no way to think that "Russianness" is primarily the Russian language, and not beating oneself in the chest, they say, "we are Russians." And these 5 minuses (as of 19-49 on November 4, 2013) are 5 illiterate and indifferent to the Russian language people who assert their right to lack of culture.
There are no words...
I am ready to accept any criticism that they say that I don’t know the language either - so correct me, I have 3 points for the 8th grade (but I had 2) - and where are you, literate and smart?
And in response - silence ...
And while we shout about the greatness of Russia ...
Sad girls ...

[Gronsky]

Quote: ATATA

What are the plant capacities in Kharkov overloaded?
How much, this pride of the Soviet military-industrial complex can now produce tanks per year in fact?

In 2008, he was on business in Kharkov. What I saw at the Malyshev plant can be described in one word - ASS. If Tarkovsky had filmed his "Stalker" in 2008, I think he would definitely have chosen the plant as a decoration. It's a pity I did not take a picture. Of course, there can be no talk of any mass production there.
But with all this, we must pay tribute to the remnants of the design team, who managed to develop and launch the BTR-4 series in such wild conditions. Let even raw, unfinished. Honor and praise, they are just heroes. Although I think that in the current state of affairs in Ukraine, the plant will soon be engaged in screwdriver assembly of some kind of garbage.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: major071

I don’t want to say anything bad about the tank, but in the photo they are like cardboard. As for filming in some sort of second-rate film.

I would say not for the film, but for advertising. The scale for the film is not the same. I think and am a little surprised, the order is from September 2011, today is November 2013. In total, 5 pieces were sculpted for 26 months? What patience should Ukrainian customers have? That Iraq is waiting for five years, then Thailand.
After all, the tank at the time of its display was advertised as ready for production, but in fact it was paid as for the development of a new product.

What surprises me is what forces are behind the Ukrainian negotiators, when the state customers have been waiting for their products for many years and receive low quality.

[Lesnik]

Cardboard! Well, very thoughtful koment

[Vitaly Anisimov]

All the same, it’s not enough to pay for gas with Russia (currently $ 800 million) .. Winter is coming ...

[Ezhaak]

Of the possible amount received, the lion's share will go to cover the costs of manufacturing, repaying loans. So there is no point in rolling out the lips. It is better to run away from the lip-filling machine while there is time.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Russia especially does not hope .. Again we will write! Brothers all the same ..

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Good minus Ukraine ..))) Here about your tanks and I'm talking about debts! Now, if the article was "100 Oplot tanks were delivered to the Ukrainian Army, etc." And then you supply Guadeloupe with tanks .. Do not dishonor the tank builders!

[makarov]

Cheerful marches in advance "After the completion of the tests, a technical acceptance certificate will be signed and the Oplots will be sent to a foreign customer."
It would be more correct to write instead of the word "After", the phrase "In case".
With armored personnel carriers have already disgraced .....

[Migari]

Let's hope that tanks like armored personnel carriers will not become sea travelers.

[GastaClaus69]

If, as is the case with Thai APCs, then they will order more. Thais are not Arabs for you, with only Allah on my mind, I'm in a bar.

[TAIM]

the fact that the plant does something and releases products is good. people have salaries and work. and the school of tank building has not yet been stolen.

[edge]

Quote: TAIM

and the school of tank building has not yet been stolen.

but it’s not long to wait, they will join the EU and everything will be eliminated .......- maximum, they will leave the cartridge production, Schaub did not feel humiliated and offended

[Hitrovan07]

I hope the people of Ukraine prevent politicians from destroying the country (as they did with the USSR). Look what happened to the Baltic states.

[Hudo]

Quote: TAIM

the fact that the plant does something and releases products is good. people have salaries and work

With a salary at the factory, not all ice. At the plant, gas was turned off for non-payment, and late autumn was overboard.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Hudo

With a salary at the factory, not all ice. At the plant, gas was turned off for non-payment, and late autumn was overboard.

You have to understand that there was a slogan: "Be patient! We'll push the tanks in and there will be wages and heating in the shop!"

[Hudo]

Quote: stalkerwalker

You have to understand that there was a slogan: "Be patient! We'll push the tanks in and there will be wages and heating in the shop!"

Where have you seen or may have heard that after "effective managers" there is anything left?
I talked with a colleague from Kharkov - people don't have to pay for a tram ride in order to come to work at the plant, but "effective managers" will always find a new Lexus.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Hudo

I talked with a colleague from Kharkov - people don't have to pay for a tram ride in order to come to work at the plant, but "effective managers" will always find a new Lexus.

This is how the Russian defense industry went through this stage. The "pipe" and oil and gas prices saved the day.

[Hudo]

Quote: stalkerwalker

How the Russian defense industry went through this stage. The "pipe" and oil and gas prices saved the day.

This is not the case. Read through http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2013/10/blog-post_16.html. It is clear that this opus from Yashka the tanker is best called "Etude in black tones", where everything, even a little gray, is shown in absolute black. But, it is also clear that some of what has been written has real ground under it, the situation is awful.
It is very likely that the Thai contract for Wu will end in the same way as the careers of the artists Ostap Bender and Kisa Vorobyaninov on the Scriabin agitation steamer.

[kaktus]

“People don’t have to pay for a tram ride in order to come to work at the plant, but“ effective managers ”will always find a new Lexus.
and haven’t done a paid entrance yet ?!

[svp67]

I want to wish "Malyshev" - Good luck and not repeating the story with the BTR4

[Just]

But who needs it, this Bastion? All the leading world powers have their own production of tanks. Maybe a third world needs a tank? So there they prefer to buy war-tested equipment. Western tanks run in Iraq-Afghanistan, and Russian in Chechnya-Syria. In addition, there is experience in the operation of American, German and Russian tanks in all climatic zones, from the cold Arctic and dry deserts to the humid tropics. And where are the Strongholds tested and tested by time? That's it, nowhere. Of course, as long as Ukraine has not yet been completely dragged into the Western market, the West will still give it gifts in the form of forcing third-world countries to purchase Strongholds, but as soon as the Ukrainian economy lies under the West (and this will happen very soon), no one not let her compete with western tank manufacturers. Of course, she was not directly forbidden to produce, but simply strangled in a friendly European economic embrace. Western countries need additional consumers, not producers.

[Akim]

Quote: Simpleton

But who needs it, this Bastion?

Who needs those and buy. As for the break-in. Its ancestor T-80UD rides through the mountains of Pakistan. His older brother T-84U drove the whole year in the climate of Thailand. Stop grinding your teeth and in every news from Ukraine see a catch!

[xetai9977]

"Oplot" judging by the performance characteristics of a good tank. He shouldn't be hayut. If you don't like the policy of the Ukrainian leadership, then tell me so, what has the tank to do with it? I wish success to the Ukrainian people in overcoming difficulties. Every success to them.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: xetai9977

I wish success to the Ukrainian people in overcoming difficulties

I also wish. I even feel sorry for them. I think they will overcome them for a very long time

[Order]

Quote: Akim

Stop grinding your teeth and in every news from Ukraine see a catch!

Do not pay attention ... But on business, I am sincerely glad for the Kharkovites. It means "it hasn't died yet ...", it means that the plant lives and people get their salaries, which is gratifying.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Simpleton

But who needs it, this Bastion?

Royal thai army

[edge]

Quote: Simpleton

But who needs it, this Bastion? All leading world powers have their own tank production.

I absolutely agree, everyone supports his producer and destroys a competitor. For example, Sakishvili, who in Europe got rid of Georgian wine, although produced using purchased technologies ....

[Oleg Kharkov]

If the Ukrainian army also starts purchasing "Oplot", it will be great. Well, let the Thais be here for now. The most important thing is that the company is developing and not standing still.

[Akim]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

If the Ukrainian army also starts to buy "Oplot", it will be great

Why do we need it?

[alone]

good luck to the kids !! the plant is not idle. and this is a huge plus !!

[Oleg Kharkov]

Akim, it seems that we will still go through the stage when the quantity will not level the quality. And the troops will finally be saturated with the required amount of equipment. And the General Staff will not have a question about the availability of modern tanks as such, but the question will arise about their higher quality. All the same, I am sure that with the number of Bulats in the 400-500 troops, they will continue to take Oplots. There are limits to the possibilities for Ukraine to supply tank battalions with crews, fuels and lubricants, spare parts, etc. Although, of course, about 500 Bulat, I was dreaming.

[Akim]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

Akim, I think that we will still go through the stage when quantity will not quality

This nevilation will never replace a combat charter.
When some obscure experts say that it is better to have 200 BM Oplot tanks than 700 now., You can laugh. In principle, it is possible to replace tank battalions in mechanized brigades with heavy infantry fighting vehicles, but today this is stupid. With regards to the T-64B, it is not without a reserve of modernization to compete with neighboring tanks, from the West and from the East. Not only is it 3-4 times cheaper, but also faster.

[Oleg Kharkov]

I agree that if there should be a tank in some direction (the combat regulations and combat use were not written from the ceiling - there can be no dispute at all), then it is silly to try to replace it with a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. And when I said that they would continue to take "Oplots" - it was in addition to the already existing "Bulats". If there is an opportunity to use our canned T-64s with benefit, then of course this is exactly what should be done. But 500 Bulats + 200 Oplots will be more effective than 700 Bulats: if the MBT is Bulat and its more protected and armed counterpart Oplot, then why not? The only thing that comes to mind is that while the T-64s are being modernized in sufficient quantities, a new machine from the Morozov Design Bureau will be provided: I am sure that the Oplot was not an extreme idea of ​​the Malyshevites. But for this you need something else besides the Thai contract.

[Akim]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

+ 200 "Strongholds"

200 Strongholds at domestic prices of approximately 800 million green. In principle, a little - the price of a monthly payment for gas. But the Defense Ministry would have had that kind of money, would have let it go on corvettes and modernization of the missile forces and artillery. By the way. Happy holiday to them !.

[Oleg Kharkov]

I'm just about the same. It was a complex wish: that Ukraine would be able to order 200 Oplots. Those. there was money for corvettes, and there were already enough modernized Bulats, and had their own air defense systems in the series, and the VTA and VVS had a modernized aircraft fleet and did not saw. It is clear that no one will abandon everything and build "Strongholds" alone, and there is no point in this.
I join: with the celebration of our projectors, even if their missiles are already without special "warheads" (although who knows, you never know).

[Genry]

Quote: Akim

Not only is it 3-4 times cheaper, but also faster.

However, love priv .. enlarge.
T64 cannot be fast, due to the weakness of the chassis. Why and switched to the release of the T80UD, with its undercarriage designed for GTE power.

[Akim]

Quote: Genry

T64 may not be fast, due to weak chassis

Apparently I did not write correctly. Modernization of the T-64B ((B1) in the BM Bulat is much faster than the manufacture of a new tank. Approximately 2,5 times.

[maxvet]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

If the Ukrainian army also starts purchasing "Oplot", it will be great.

probably it will be, at the moment, better to upgrade the T64 to Bulat. (my personal opinion)

[Oleg Kharkov]

Unfortunately, yes, it's just my personal desire, so that the situation in Ukraine allows us to acquire our own equipment, thereby supporting our defense industry.

[voliador]

That's right. As soon as the Geyropei’s ass is set up, they’ll have a slut for them, and they will only make tanks .

[Sailor Zheleznyak]

Quote: Simpleton

The West will still give her gifts in the form of forcing third-country countries to purchase Strongholds, but as soon as the Ukrainian economy lies under the West (and this will happen very soon), no one will let her compete with Western tank manufacturers. Of course, she was not directly forbidden to produce, but simply strangled in a friendly European economic embrace. Western countries need additional consumers, not producers.

It’s hard not to agree. Those who have at least some idea of ​​the organization of state contests, especially in the procurement of weapons, are well aware that 99,9% are won by the political component. and no technical, military and economic parameters have anything to do with it. The winner is known in advance. All participants are well aware of this. The goal of the losers is to advertise their products, try to make a foundation for the future, strengthen ties with a potential customer, collect information about competitors, etc.

[SV]

that's right, a huge plus !!! although there is still a chance of survival, and not even the tank itself.

[Semen Semyonitch]

So far the article is a plus. You can't make a tank in the garage, it means that heavy engineering is still alive. It's a shame if the Slavic brothers "waste" all this to please the European integrationists ...

[lightman]

Quote: Simpleton

But who needs it, this Bastion? All the leading world powers have their own production of tanks. Maybe a third world needs a tank? So there they prefer to buy war-tested equipment. Western tanks run in Iraq-Afghanistan, and Russian in Chechnya-Syria. In addition, there is experience in the operation of American, German and Russian tanks in all climatic zones, from the cold Arctic and dry deserts to the humid tropics. And where are the Strongholds tested and tested by time? That's it, nowhere. Of course, as long as Ukraine has not yet been completely dragged into the Western market, the West will still give it gifts in the form of forcing third-world countries to purchase Strongholds, but as soon as the Ukrainian economy lies under the West (and this will happen very soon), no one not let her compete with western tank manufacturers. Of course, she was not directly forbidden to produce, but simply strangled in a friendly European economic embrace. Western countries need additional consumers, not producers.

There was a competition that Ukraine won. Leopard-2 and Russian T-90 also participated in the competition.
In terms of characteristics and its class "Oplot" is comparable and in some cases even better than these tanks. But the main criterion by which the tender was won is that "Oplot" is much cheaper than Leopard 2 and T-90
So think about why the Thais decided to take the "Oploty" and not the "run-in" T-90

[Apollo]

quote-At the test site in Chuguev, "Bastions" are firing and sea trials. Tanks are tested in real conditions, in particular, during night firing.

[Slevinst]

and if the tower turns at the moment when the driver stuck his head out? kirdyk head?

[cashpoint]

Like on any other tank.

[Andrew 447]

Do not write nonsense if the tank was seen only in the picture. The stabilizer will not work horizontally if the hatch is mech.-water, there is a sensor-switch on the hatch locking mechanism.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Andrey 447

Do not write nonsense if the tank was seen only in the picture. The stabilizer will not work horizontally if the hatch is mech.-water, there is a sensor-switch on the hatch locking mechanism.

I don’t know how on the T-72-90, but on the T-62 on the hatch of the mechanical driver there was an ordinary trailer, which was simply blocked. Himself a couple of times at night firing drove tanks in which the driver’s hatch was constantly open. I didn’t bother why they did it, drove it open.

And if the tower is not on the stop, then on the slope it can turn itself. Although, as a rule, in such a situation the trunk is raised and nothing bad happens (it will not tear off your head)

[Andrew 447]

If desired, and the presence of talent, you can take off on a spaceship with an open hatch.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Interestingly, he has four-wheel drive? And the clearance of something is small ...)))

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: lightman

which won the tender is that "Oplot" is much cheaper than Leopard 2 and T-90

There is such a concept as "dumping prices, tariffs".
How did Oplot turn out to be cheaper than its competitors?
If the metal turned out to be cheaper, from which, in the bulk, the tank was made, then it was bought in China, because the cost of a ton of high-quality steel is approximately the same in Russia and Ukraine.
If "attachments", including a tank gun, turned out to be cheaper, then there is no difference in the cost price - the cost of labor in Russia and in Ukraine is again the same. Otherwise, the workers of the Malyshev plant work for the stew.
Output.
If "Oplot" was much cheaper than competitors, this may mean that someone and somewhere played with numbers.

[cth; fyn]

It's impossible to find fault with steel, these are still Soviet buildings from the T-80.

[Akim]

Quote: cth; fyn

this is still the Soviet corps from the T-80.

Well, how else to complain. Such stupid Thais, seduced for second-hand.

[Avenger711]

It was on him that Comrade Comrade had long pointed out. Khlopotov, but Svidomo do not believe him.

[roller2]

what Comrade has long indicated Troubles

And he was present at the same time ??
Pointing is not the truth to say.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Otherwise, the workers of the plant named after Malyshev work for a stew.

They wrote to you above that workers have no money for the tram
I think the salary in Russia is already decently ahead of the Ukrainian

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Pilat2009

They wrote to you above that workers have no money for the tram

Thank...
I noticed ... and answered.
You look at the time of the appearance of the post ...

[lightman]

If we take the average salary in the country as a whole, then in Russia it is now 2.5 times higher than the salary.

[Andrew 447]

It’s cheaper because they tear the T-80U from storage bases, made tuning and passed it as OPLOT. The Thais are probably no boom-boom in Ukrainian, but technical documentation in Ukrainian .Well, a miracle at the ZERO director of the Chuguev landfill will not happen, everything will be normal, but what will happen when passing in Thailand, we'll see.

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

ayts probably in Ukrainian nor boom-boom, and technical documentation in Ukrainian

Oh well)) In the export, ORDERED tank, the documentation ONLY in one language?

Quote: Andrey 447

Well, what will happen when surrendering in Thailand, we'll see.

And there will be no tasks in Thailand. They accept them here, and provide escort during transportation.

Quote: Andrey 447

Cheaper, because they tear the T-80U from storage bases, made tuning and passed it off as OPLOT.

Why are you revealing the secret of Azerbaijan T-90?

[Andrew 447]

That is, the kids have leaked cars without warranty and service? Taking off my hat

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

That is, the kids have leaked cars without warranty and service? Taking off my hat

What are my words that made you think of this conclusion?

[Akim]

Quote: Andrey 447

.Thais are probably no Ukrainian boom-boom, but technical documentation in Ukrainian

You think about the degree of delirium from your lips. The Thais have been cooperating on armored personnel carriers for several years, have worked out all the acceptance mechanisms and here you appear with "practical advice"!

[Kars]

Quote: Akim

You think about the degree of delirium from your lips.

Well, there’s probably no time there. There’s something to blurt out.

[Andrew 447]

FOR Akim / For less aggression, you are not in Africa, if you have vision problems, return to my post again and pay attention to the emoticon .This is the first. The second is not talking to you and I do not need your uninformative comments.

[Akim]

Quote: Andrey 447

For less aggression, you are not in Africa, if you have vision problems, return to my post again and pay attention to the emoticon

Absolutely no aggression. As for the emoticon, it does not display emotions. Maybe you twisted a smile. And next time, please be more precise to whom you are referring to in your comments, for I also wrote this thread in the article.

[lightman]

This very "tuning" can be attributed to any Russian tank. And you write the same comment with such joy .. why are you happy?

[Andrew 447]

Lightman - are you sure that you are from Ukraine? Or are you an ethnic German? If you carefully read the heading of the article, then, oddly enough, we are discussing the OPLOT tank, the brainchild of the Ukrainian, and not the Russian defense industry.

[Avenger711]

On the so-called. "Ukrainian" tech. nobody writes documentation. Even svidomye, when deystvitelno need to describe something rulenno go to human language.

[edge]

Quote: lightman

So think about why the Thais decided to take the "Oploty" and not the "run-in" T-90

and they won’t take it, because their production will be curtailed to please EU

[cashpoint]

The stronghold is not cheaper than the T-90, the price is comparable. The stronghold is more reliable and advanced ...

[mark1]

Quote: cashpoint

The stronghold is more reliable and advanced ...

Well, how can a piece-production semi-experimental tank be more reliable and cheaper than a serial vehicle? And at the expense of the Thai choice - whom the "big brother" said to choose, that one was chosen. It's not about price or performance characteristics, it's about politics, Iraq is an example of this ...

[cashpoint]

What is experimental there? An engine that comes in thousands of sets? Chassis? Gun? Sights and SLA is a development of previous and run-in models. And in terms of the reliability of the torsion bars and the resource of the T-90 engine, as well as general ergonomics, Khlopotov has already spoken out in his blog, as well as the reliability of the AZ T-90. Of course, I understand that mine is closer. But the solution used in the Bastion is more advanced, and the nodes and units of which it is made are checked by previous operation and reliable.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: cashpoint

Khlopotov has already spoken out on his blog, as well as the reliability of the AZ T-90. Of course, I understand that mine is closer. But the solution used in the Bastion is more advanced, and the nodes and units of which it is made are checked by previous operation and reliable.

That is, the PRICE is almost the same.
But

Quote: cashpoint

The stronghold is not cheaper than the T-90, the price is comparable. The stronghold is more reliable and advanced ...

I would like a comment from a specialist - Kars, your opinion?

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

That is, the PRICE is almost the same.

Well, don’t they have a calculator? Over 200 mil.dollars - let’s be about 220 mil (maybe more) divided by 51 -49 tanks and 2 BREM we get an approximate price.

Quote: stalkerwalker

I would like a comment from a specialist - Kars,

this is an exaggeration.


The picture is approximate, I think a little cheaper.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

Well, do not they have a calculator?

Nope ..

Quote: Kars

I would like a comment from a specialist - Kars,
this is an exaggeration.

Do not be shy ...

Thank you!

[Aaron Zawi]

Kars, a very decent car. Congratulations.

[Kars]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Kars, a very decent car. Congratulations.

As a plastic model will appear and I will buy it then it will be possible to congratulate. In the meantime, Thais can be congratulated on an excellent choice.

[Slevinst]

panoramic sight I would call a sniper dream

[cashpoint]

Like the Leopard 2A7 and Leklerk

[Andrew 447]

Have experience using this scope or from eyewitnesses?

[Sailor Zheleznyak]

Quote: Kars

Quote: stalkerwalker
I would like a comment from a specialist - Kars,
this is an exaggeration.

I would like more details about the specialist. Where he served, in what positions, etc. And then on our sites, experts are everyone who designs cardboard models and reads popular magazines about BT, as well as journalists of all stripes ...

[Kars]

Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak

I would like more details about the specialist

I did not call myself a specialist. Therefore, I will redirect the question to someone else.
And you pretend?

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak
I would like more details about the specialist
I did not call myself a specialist. Therefore, I will redirect the question to someone else.

I consider the forum member Kars an expert on the armored topic.

[Sailor Zheleznyak]

Quote: stalkerwalker

I consider the forum member Kars an expert on the armored topic.

In order to make such assessments, one must at least possess the following qualities:
1. Education.
2. Experience (military service or work in a scientific or industrial institution on relevant topics).

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak

I consider the forum member Kars an expert on the armored topic.
In order to make such assessments, one must at least possess the following qualities:
1. Education.
2. Experience (military service or work in a scientific or industrial institution on relevant topics).

... And I do not need the advice of new mentors. On your part, only unreasonable claims to forum users are visible.
Behave more modestly, more modestly ...

[Kars]

Maybe I need to show what documents?
Pass the exam))))


By the way, here's how in Thailand they make way for BM Oplot.

[Sailor Zheleznyak]

Quote: Kars

Maybe I need to show what documents?
Pass the exam))))


By the way, here's how in Thailand they make way for BM Oplot.

If you think that this "visual material" from the Internet is a good help for conducting dialogues on such topics, then there are no more questions ...

[Kars]

Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak

If you think that this "visual material" from the Internet is a good help for conducting dialogues on such topics, then there are no more questions ...

But I didn’t have any questions for you. Besides one

And you pretend?

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

Maybe I need to show what documents?
Pass the exam))))

Well ...
One troll more ...
And the magnitude of the flight of fantasy is expressed in a nickname ...

[Sailor Zheleznyak]

Quote: stalkerwalker

... And I do not need the advice of new mentors.

Quote: stalkerwalker

Behave more modestly, more modestly ..

I would like to redirect this advice to you ...

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak

I would like to redirect this advice to you ...

Comrade ...
Zinc behind your own geyser - no sensible thoughts have been heard from you yet

[tomket]

I'm sorry, but what is he promoting, if you yourself have just outlined the fact that the main elements, such as the engine, the cannon is running in the thousands ???? that is, all these elements are by no means new or advanced, but instead they are advanced, as it were, explain.

[cashpoint]

The Hunter-Killer mode has been released, independent commander and gunner channels, an automatic transmission, the ability to move in reverse gear at a speed of up to 30 km / h, a more powerful and reliable engine with high operating temperatures without loss of power in the form of a block with the ability to quickly replace it, the KBA3 cannon allows quick replacement of the barrel without dismantling the turret and breech, a wider frequency range of the "Varta" jammer (as opposed to the "Shtora"), a tactical terminal with displaying information about the position of friendly and enemy troops in real time is used, unit for determining coordinates Glonass-GPS, the ability to install KAZ (real even now out of the box, and not possible in the future as "Arena"), a more capacious and reliable loading mechanism, the world's most advanced dynamic protection "Duplet" (allows you to resist tandems from all angles, kinetics, and shock nuclei). And all this for a reasonable price.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: cashpoint

And all this for a reasonable price.

Do not consider this lunge for a stone in your garden ...
But all of the above for a reasonable price...?
You don't have to be a financier to understand that the "naked" "Stronghold" fits into such a definition. But all options ...
Vague doubts torment me - at whose expense the banquet?
Or at the factory named after Malyshev a military magician was wound up who materializes a military hi-tech out of thin air?

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

and reasonable money ...?
You don't have to be a financier to understand that the "naked" "Stronghold" fits into such a definition. But all options ...

Well, it's you in vain. Compared to Korean, German or Israeli tanks, Oplot is a reasonable amount of money.

At least you can write how much this is in your opinion? Reasonable money? How much does the T-90MS cost? How much is Armata?

Quote: stalkerwalker

Healthy competition will not hurt.

In what?
And close up or not close up? And what were you going to buy up? Line tanks? Tuk stat news for some reason passed by how Ukraine bought the MLRS Hurricane and ammunition in Moldova.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

At least you can write how much this is in your opinion? Reasonable money? How much does the T-90MS cost? How much is Armata?

I explain ...
This is not a matter of numbers, but of technology and the cost of labor, energy consumption of production capacities. Even the Chinese, with their cheap labor, drive military products 10-15% cheaper than competitors.
Therefore, I mentioned in the first post dumping factor.

Quote: Kars

In what?
And do not do it or not?

Some kind of nervousness in the lines ...
Believe me, D. Rogozin is not me ...

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

It's not about the numbers

Why, then, is the matter of numbers. They are an obscure indicator.

Quote: stalkerwalker

Even the Chinese, with their cheap labor, drive military products 10-15% cheaper than competitors.

Are you sure that if the Chinese have a price of 10-15 less then the effectiveness remains the same?

At the same time, you exaggerate. Although you can name the export price Type 99A2 and compare it with BM Oplot.

Quote: stalkerwalker

Therefore, he mentioned the dumping factor in the first post.

You mentioned it in vain. Oplot is more expensive than T-90A and used Leopard 2A6.

Quote: stalkerwalker

Believe me, D. Rogozin is not me

Well, what I will answer here Rogozin, I do not calculate.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

Are you sure that if the Chinese have a price of 10-15 less then the effectiveness remains the same?

At the same time, you exaggerate. Although you can name the export price Type 99A2 and compare it with BM Oplot.

Okay ... Let's go from the other side ...

Only in the USSR (with fixed prices, tariffs and a closed economy) were "jokes" rolled with "reasonable prices" in excellent quality with high performance characteristics.

The issue of pricing is a serious thing.

I put the question bluntly - either "Oplot" - breeding Thai suckers for grandmothers (which is unlikely), or the sale price is lower than the cost of the product.

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

I put the question bluntly - either "Oplot" - breeding Thai suckers for grandmothers (which is unlikely), or the sale price is lower than the cost of the product

in vain --you don’t understand anything.
and something to count based on memories of the USSR is also not worth it.
4 million dollars a decent price for a new tank. Or do you think that you can’t get a good tank for less than 8? Or maybe you have questions about the pricing of a monopolist with a state-guaranteed UVZ order?

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

4 million dollars a decent price for a new tank. Or do you think that you can’t get a good tank for less than 8? Or maybe you have questions about the pricing of a monopolist with a state-guaranteed UVZ order?

Kars, dear, why are you looking for a dirty trick in my words?
Nevertheless, thanks for the communication, for the newsletter. Good luck

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Kars, dear, why are you looking for a dirty trick in my words?

So with a question figured out?

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

So with a question figured out?

Is it worth it?

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Is it worth it?

You are interested, so why not foolishness?

How much should the tank cost in order not to arouse suspicion?

And by the way, Thailand buys what it wants, regardless of political preferences - that of Ukrainian tanks and armored personnel carriers, that of Russian helicopters.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

You are interested, so why not foolishness?

How much should the tank cost in order not to arouse suspicion?

You do not want to see my doubts about price NEW TANK.
My logic is simple - NEW PRODUCT in the market of WTO countries can't cost cheaper similar ALREADY DEPRECATED products of foreign manufacturers. This is a marketing focus.

[Kars]

Quote: stalkerwalker

You do not want to see my doubts about the price of the NEW TANK.

You confuse the concept of a NEW tank with a NEW GENERATION tank.

Quote: stalkerwalker

The logic is simple - A NEW PRODUCT on the market of the WTO countries cannot be cheaper than similar products of foreign manufacturers that are already outdated

Even so - it can be cheaper. Due to the same electronics. When Leclerc got his OMS, it was damn expensive, now the analogue is at least 4-5 times cheaper.

At the same time, it is too obsolete.

Quote: stalkerwalker

This is a marketing focus.

Get these magic tricks out.

[tomket]

you contradict yourself, then your systems and assemblies long mastered in production are therefore super reliable, then you have a list of completely new aggregates of assemblies and systems, which, in theory, should not be superior in reliability to those on t-90, the most advanced)))))

[cashpoint]

All key units have been operated earlier and have proven their reliability, of those that are on the T-90, one can only compare the gun, engine, chassis and AZ. The gun is the same, the T-90 engine is worse and its replacement takes up to a day, the running gear from the T-80 is superfluous, but the AZ T-90, as well as the placement of the ammunition, are extremely unsuccessful (the ammunition station is spread throughout the fighting compartment, the conveyor capacity is smaller , limitation on the length of the projectile, is very sensitive to the slightest deformation of the bottom). There are no many systems implemented on the Oplot on the T-90, that's why I wrote that Oplot is more advanced and, objectively, it is. Regarding the "most advanced remote sensing", it is the most advanced, none of the existing systems has its capabilities.

[ATATA]

A stronghold made on the basis of which tank?
Explain who his progenitor?
Then we discuss further on the criterion of price / efficiency.
and the price is not in construction, but in maintenance.
Especially with such a series.

[cashpoint]

Based on T-84, progenitor T-80UD. If kooky on T-80 and that it is the Leningrad Design Bureau. I disappoint, running yes, Leningrad Design Bureau. Tower with weapons on the T-80 Kharkov bureau. After cutting the gas turbine engine, only the running gear remained from the Leningrad design bureau from the time of the T-80UD.

[ATATA]

Quote: cashpoint

Based on T-84, progenitor T-80UD. If kooky on T-80 and that it is the Leningrad Design Bureau. I disappoint, running yes, Leningrad Design Bureau. Tower with weapons on the T-80 Kharkov bureau. After cutting the gas turbine engine, only the running gear remained from the Leningrad design bureau from the time of the T-80UD.

"The peals of my laughter are shaking heaven and earth" (C)

[cashpoint]

Read, read and read, you are an incompetent comrade but arrogance is enough for ten.

[ATATA]

Quote: cashpoint

Read, read and read, you are an incompetent comrade but arrogance is enough for ten.

Can you be more specific?
And then such phrases like: "Study, study and study again!" (C) we have already passed.
ps
Excuse me, but are you by any chance not a Ukrainian Jew?
And then they are similar in style.
ps.sp.s I hope you are not offended? After all, the most ardent Ukrainians are Jews.

[cashpoint]

Start with Object 476 whose tower was on the T-80

[ATATA]

Quote: cashpoint

Start with Object 476 whose tower was on the T-80

And?

[cashpoint]

Was not offended. Jews are a talented people who create excellent high-tech weapons. If a Ukrainian is compared with a Jew, this is a confession.
As Winston Churchill said - "We have no anti-simitism, because we do not consider Jews smarter than ourselves."

Do you see a problem with this, do you feel inferior?

[ATATA]

Quote: cashpoint

Do you see a problem with this, do you feel inferior?

No.
"Where the crest has gone, there is nothing for a Jew to do."
But I think that this quote was invented by Ukrainian Jews!

[Andrew 447]

I have a question for you about the tool, who is the contractor (manufacturer)? What is his resource for BOPS?

[Kars]

http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut0809/PzUkr/PzUkr002.htm

Quote: Andrey 447

What is his resource for BOPS?

Pakistanis do not complain.

[cashpoint]

Tool manufacturer KBA3 GP Plant them. V.O. Malysheva

http://www.morozov.com.ua/rus/body/kba3.php

[Andrew 447]

For cashpoint / What can you say about the problems of AZ? What exactly are the classic problems of AZ and how are resolved at OPLOTA?

[cashpoint]

Neither Oplot nor the T-64/80 ever had AZ problems. Everything is clearly marked on the tablet.

http://btvt.narod.ru/istoria_t64/vivod.files/image001.jpg

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

then can you say about the problems of AZ?

For that matter, the T-72 had problems with the AZ, and the T-80/64 could have problems with the MZ.

[Andrew 447]

I tested knowledge of cashpoint

[Gronsky]

Quote: cashpoint

and reliable engine with high temperature conditions

This is new. It is unlikely that anyone will dispute the fact that the design of the engines of the 6TD family is more original and more complicated than that of the descendants of the good old B2 on UVZ tanks. But here is your statement about their superreliability, I'm sorry, nonsense. It is well known that their inverse quality was inherited from the sixty-four 5TD, the development of which they essentially are. Here is the block structure of the power block at the Oplot, this is really an advantage.
But why do you need a quick-change power unit, which will require replacement once a day (exaggerating), all because of the same "ultra-reliable" 6TD?

[roller2]

About "super-reliability"

good old B2 on UVZ tanks

comrade already told us Khlopotov, 350 hours of operating time had tanks in the domestic war, but in order to speak about the 6TD in this tone, you first need to operate it a bit, and not take the word to comrades who saw the tank only in the picture.

[mark1]

Quote: cashpoint

I certainly understand that its closer

The point is not - closer or further, the toad does not strangle me, but judge for yourself - the first batch of 5 tanks was "sculpted" within a year, ie. on the face of small-scale, almost manual, production. With this method of manufacturing (and even with ensuring high quality), the price of products cannot be low, for example, Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini or Morgan cars. It's another matter if old "shamanized" housings and parts from used T-80 are used, a fashionable body kit for old hardware is certainly cheaper, but at the expense of quality it is already a lottery.
The order of Thailand, as far as I know, 49 cars, if you do not twist
, in any case, this is small-scale production with all the ensuing conclusions.

[cashpoint]

This is the beginning of the series, since the time of the Pakistani contract tanks were not produced from scratch. Contractors, subcontractors customization of technological lines, technological maps, etc. During the Second World War, there were much more successful models of weapons, but they refused to produce them due to the fact that the transition to new products on existing lines (and not stopped for a decade) took up to a year, and this was a relatively low-tech product ...

[SV]

those. nevertheless, over the years, tested colored (sorry modernized) junk?
about six months ago I watched the dock. film (produced by UK) and read comments to it. about the state of production capacities of Ukraine in this area (including the possibility of equipment). the impression was depressing ...

[Flooding]

Quote: lightman

But the main criterion by which the tender was won is that "Oplot" is much cheaper than Leopard 2 and T-90
So think about why the Thais decided to take the "Oploty" and not the "run-in" T-90

Announce the numbers, please.
Because I found in the internet the amount of the contract is 230 million dollars for 49 tanks.
I doubt very much that the T-90 was offered at a higher price.
Moreover, considering that Thailand made the choice in favor of the Ukrainian vehicle two weeks after the "revealing" statement by the commander-in-chief of the Army, Postnikov.

[ATATA]

Quote: Flood

Announce the numbers, please.
Because I found in the internet the amount of the contract is 230 million dollars for 49 tanks.
I doubt very much that the T-90 was offered at a higher price.
Moreover, considering that Thailand made the choice in favor of the Ukrainian vehicle two weeks after the "revealing" statement by the commander-in-chief of the Army, Postnikov.

Yes, everything is simple there!
As usual, they asked Thailand to buy what was needed from the regional committee (like Iraq with BTR-4).
And then it will be, as always (as with Iraq with the BTR-4).

[Avenger711]

Who cares about the Thais, when the whole world takes the T-90 and Leo-2. After the Pakistani contract, this is the only serious contract for the supply of tanks, which in fact has already been disrupted.

[bistrov.]

Already now, in an ultimatum, the United States demanded that Ukraine dispose of 2280 T-64 tanks that are in Ukrainian arsenals, and which Ukraine planned to modernize and sell to third world countries, apparently Ukraine has crossed the path of Western armored vehicle manufacturers. after signing the "association"? Yes, Ukraine will simply be banned from the production of weapons in general, since Western weapons manufacturers do not need any other competitors. So, I think, "Oplot", really, no one checked its fighting qualities, this is, so to speak, the last surge of the remnants of the Soviet military-industrial complex, a significant part of which was located in Ukraine and which Ukraine so ineptly squandered.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: bistrov.

, a significant part of which was located in Ukraine and which Ukraine was so ineptly wasting.

Judging by the won tender for tanks and recent news about the modernization of air defense, not all Ukraine wasted, although compared with the previous Soviet military-industrial complex, but then there was union cooperation.
According to the article, I want to wish the Ukrainian military industrialists further success.

[Kars]

Quote: bistrov.

The USA demanded that Ukraine dispose of 2280 T-64 tanks,

It is 2280))) but you can link to the ultimatum.

Quote: bistrov.

Yes, Ukraine simply banned the production of weapons in general

How will this be documented?

[GastaClaus69]

Quote: bistrov.

Already now, in an ultimatum form, the USA demanded that Ukraine dispose of 2280 T-64 tanks that are in Ukrainian arsenals

Ukraine does not have as much 64k in its arsenals, is it another Mammoths?

Quote: bistrov.

and which Ukraine planned to modernize and sell to the countries of the "third world", apparently Ukraine crossed the road to western manufacturers of armored vehicles. What will happen after the signing of the "association"?

Once they just showed Bulat at an exhibition in South Africa and that's it, no one was interested, as long as there are used t-72s that can be capitalized, they take 72k. Or is this another hysteria about the laying of a bolt by Ukraine on the opinions and interests of Russia?

Quote: bistrov.

Yes, Ukraine will simply be banned from the production of weapons in general, since Western arms manufacturers do not need beggarly competitors.

Or Western producers will buy stocks / enterprises and I will produce it here since production is cheaper here, and not somewhere near London.

Quote: bistrov.

So i think

Thinking is not harmful!

[Cristall]

T 64 already said - no one will do this. Stop procrastinating an old bike about a million for 2000 T 64
Cool thing this stronghold
hard to Kharkiv people but

[tomket]

soon it will be completely impossible

[Zymran]

I wish the Ukrainians success!

[mmmakm]

We also have one tank. Only I can’t understand who it belongs to, Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania. They drive it here and there.

[maxvet]

there is a concept - "Swedish family", and you, by analogy, "Baltic Army" - one tank for all

[cashpoint]

NATO begins the largest exercises in the last ten years in Poland and the Baltic states

During the exercises, NATO troops will work to defend Estonia from aggression. They will be attended by servicemen from 25 countries, including the partners of the alliance - Finland, Sweden and Ukraine.
http://zn.ua/WORLD/nato-nachinaet-samye-krupnye-za-poslednie-desyat-let-ucheniya
-v-polshe-i-pribaltike-132122_.html

[nazgul-ishe]

Less window dressing must be done and the job done. Either we are timing the terms, then we are inflating the price. Who wants to have business with us?

[Ezhaak]

Here you are loafers, then you scribble deadlines, then you push up prices. No, to sell the goods and pay the buyer more. So with you no decent freeloader will want to have a deal.

[nazgul-ishe]

Less window dressing must be done and the job done. Either we are timing the terms, then we are inflating the price. Who wants to have business with us?

[APASUS]

Well, at least they were able to defend the plant and produce something, but they really could cut it into metal.
I think the tank turned out to be not bad, but it’s not a competitor for the T-90, too few cars are produced, there is no real picture. You can safely consider it experimental, you need to transport it to Iraq and try it in really combat conditions
Ukraine needs to participate in tenders more, not only under the American roof as it is now, but on its own. That would not work like an armored personnel carrier.

[phantom359]

You need to rearm your army, not Thai and other bananas. The tank is not bad, it will come down in the near future.

[Kars]

Quote: phantom359

The tank is not bad, it will come down soon

)) In the near future, I would like this bunch. And Oplot - there are no tanks of this level of neighbors. One of Russia is waiting for Armata.

[iSpoiler]

Here is a bunch

[APASUS]

Quote: Kars

)) for the near future I would like this bunch.

I would like the Ukrainian army to really adopt this bundle in the quantity normal for the country, and not two or three samples.

[Kars]

Quote: APASUS

I would like the Ukrainian army

And you won’t start screaming that with Western money h..la against .. the Great Russians .. are arming?
And then I was already asked where the money for the exercises was coming from, and that the tanks were firing so often.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Kars

And you won’t start screaming that with Western money h..la against .. the Great Russians .. are arming?

Healthy competition will not hurt.
And then Russia will buy all the know-how with a herd.

[APASUS]

Quote: Kars

And you won’t start screaming that western money is h..la against .. the Great Russians .. are they arming? And they already asked me where the money for the exercises was coming from, and that it’s the tanks that shoot so often.

Knowing how things are in the economy of the country, I won’t shout. Here and the Baltic states also thought that they would get hold of Western weapons and now they have one tank for three states. I think if the country joins the EU, they will cease to buy weapons altogether. They took too much on themselves.

[Kars]

Quote: APASUS

Knowing how things are in the country's economy, I won’t shout

For the sake of just checking this, I would like the Ukrainian Armed Forces to receive many new weapons.

[alone]

Quote: Kars

And you won’t start screaming that with Western money h..la against .. the Great Russians .. are arming?
And then I was already asked where the money for the exercises was coming from, and that the tanks were firing so often.

)) Well, of course they will scream! Without this, nothing!

[Kars]

Quote: lonely

no way without it!

Damn, I would like to listen.

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And you won’t start screaming that with Western money h..la against .. the Great Russians .. are arming?

Believe me, if they start giving you money, then you will buy purely other people's equipment.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Believe me, if they start giving you money, then you will buy purely other people's equipment.

I will not believe. What will give loans for the military sphere.
And this is not the answer. Will you shout? Or not?

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

I will not believe. What will give loans for the military sphere.
And this is not the answer. Will you shout? Or not?

They don’t like competitors there, and no one is going to raise your industry or any other segments. For the EU, they need no more than a market. For NATO as a market for its weapons plus meat in wars. I’m not sorry for Ukraine, whose rulers who speak of nezalezhnasti are looking for another block.)

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

They don’t like competitors there

And where do you like competitors?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

and no one is going to raise your industry or some other kind of segmentation.

They said pompously. But this is unlikely to be true. There is no need to raise anything - we need sales

Quote: Phantom Revolution

For the EU, they need no more than a market.

For us, the EU is also needed as a market. And for whom is someone needed differently?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

For NATO as a market for its weapons plus meat in wars

NATO does not sell weapons. Ukraine, as you put it, will provide meat, just ask. Our military needs money and combat experience. They will be in the queues.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

it’s not a pity for Ukraine, whose rulers who speak of nezalezhnasti are looking for another block.)

Do you think someone needs your pity?

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And where do you like competitors?

In the USSR, and right now nowhere, that's just the point, and they paint the entry into the EU as manna from heaven.

Quote: Kars

They said pompously. But this is unlikely to be true. There is no need to raise anything - we need sales

Iraq provided you with sales; And you do not want to modernize, but you have to do it because the EU has such requirements.

Quote: Kars

For us, the EU is also needed as a market. And for whom is someone needed differently?

And sales, oh it's funny in the EU, no one is waiting and will not buy goods from Ukraine, read examples from Greece, Lithuania, etc. So it turns out the plants on the verge of bankruptcy + loans, but there are no more customers. Think about what prospects?

Quote: Kars

NATO does not sell weapons. Ukraine, as you put it, will provide meat, just ask. Our military needs money and combat experience. They will be in the queues.

NATO is such a system where you want it or not, but you will play by their rules and buy the weapons that they tell you. An example of Turkey, when it wanted to "buy" Chinese air defense systems. As for the experience and queues, it is possible that they will stand if the other army is not needed.

Quote: Kars

Do you think someone needs your pity?

Yes, it doesn’t matter to me whether I need it or not.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

and nowhere

Do you think the discovery was made?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

but they paint the entry into the EU, like manna from heaven.

And who says that Ukraine joins the EU?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Iraq provided you with sales;

Not everything is lost yet. But you can read about the difficulties in Armovir where they made the BTR-80A which is not even a new model.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

And you do not want to upgrade, but you have to do it because the EU has such requirements.

There are no such requirements for factories that are not going to sell their products in the EU. And even for such, certification of finished products is enough for certification (not related to food manufacturers)

Quote: Phantom Revolution

And sales, oh it's funny in the EU, no one is waiting and will not buy goods from Ukraine,

Why are they buying now?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

read examples of Greece,

Have you read about the Greek island of the Blind?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Think about what prospects?

better. than the plant is on the verge of bankruptcy and there is no loan.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

NATO is such a system where you want, if you don’t want, and you will play by their rules and buy the weapons that they tell you

Who said that? Who says which systems to buy for the French?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

An example of Turkey, when it wanted to "buy" Chinese air defense systems.

And maybe they will either buy, or receive in their territory a joint production of aster. And what do you say about Greece that you bought Russian air defense?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Yes, it doesn’t matter to me whether I need it or not.

You would have to learn a topic would be more important.

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And who says that Ukraine joins the EU?

Alas, they slowly and surely pull her there, but then we will need to rake it (this is about pity).

Quote: Kars

Not all is lost yet.

Perhaps not everything, but the sediment remained.

Quote: Kars

Why are they buying now?

And what are they buying in the EU? And in what quantities? The only thing is kept in the CIS markets.

Quote: Kars

better. than the plant is on the verge of bankruptcy and there is no loan.

Those. a factory in a debt hole + another debt hole is this decision?) Is it like Greece is already capable of default on loans + they give it more loans))) What is this funny formula?

Quote: Kars

Who said that? Who says which systems to buy for the French?

The same drones.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

you slowly and surely pull her there

Why pull? Would you want to immediately accepted?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

we will need it (this is about pity).

Who is it - US--?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Perhaps not everything, but the sediment remained.

Everyone knows the specifics of the Arab bazaar.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

And what are they buying in the EU? And in what quantities?

More than a third of all exports.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Those. factory in a debt hole + another debt hole is this solution?)

Do you know the best solution? Someone just give money?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

This is how Greece is already capable of default on loans + she is given more loans))) What is this funny formula?

I see you don’t know anything about Greece, but you’ve only heard from the corner of my ear. By the way, I don’t see reactions to my question about the Greek island of the blind.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

The same drones.

And do the French buy the same drones without a tender? Under the pressure of WHICH country? At the same time, France can itself produce drones much better and cheaper?

US to sell MQ-9 Reaper drones to France
July 16 2013

U.S. will sell MQ-9 Reaper drones to France The U.S. Congress approved the sale of MQ-9 Reaper drone drones to France.

Currently, the American company General Atomics is modernizing two used Reaper drones, which will be transferred to France before the end of 2013. These devices were purchased as a separate contract for testing.

The French Ministry of Defense placed an order in the United States for the supply of 16 Reaper drones on June 27, 2013, but the country's defense minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, said earlier that the military intends to buy 12 vehicles for $ 874 million. The Pentagon’s Military Cooperation Department (DSCA) estimated the cost of 16 ordered devices at $ 1,5 billion.

Preliminary negotiations on the supply of France Reaper drones began in mid-December 2012. The French military department chose these devices, because its own Mantis drone, developed jointly with the UK, is not yet ready. The deadlines for completing the joint project are regularly rescheduled. As part of the French Air Force, Reaper will replace obsolete Harfang drones.

[cashpoint]

Something about Poland is not noticeable that their military-industrial complex was bent after joining NATO. On the contrary, a lot of ambitious projects are developing ...

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: cashpoint

Something about Poland is not noticeable that their military-industrial complex was bent after joining NATO. On the contrary, a lot of ambitious projects are developing ...

And how many ambitious projects have come to mass production? Ukraine also has a bunch of different single lots, but this does not mean the possibilities of the military industrial complex, purely single labs.

[lightman]

Hmm .. Kars) it was you who lived in the "quiet den"?)

[Kars]

Quote: lightman

m .. Kars) did you live in the "quiet den"?)

Y. how bent over here got over.

[mmmakm]

I wonder what weight such rollers can withstand? Flimsy some.

[cashpoint]

45 tons withstand without problems

[BlackCat]

Quote: cashpoint

45 tons withstand without problems

I would like to see the T-64 jumping from a springboard.
Photos jumping T-80 - heaps, T-90 - the same, find no problem. There is even a photo of a flying Merkava.
But the T-64 - no.
Say no to running problems?

[cashpoint]

"Tractors" - as Tagil machines are called in the Russian army - are poor in operation. The moment of the "field" repair of the torsion was captured. Tankers say the T-90 is a disease. When driving a car with the gun turned back, torsion bars regularly break on the last road wheels. The warriors explain this phenomenon by the fact that there is a shift in the center of gravity.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.in/2013/10/blog-post_2258.html

[Genry]

Quote: cashpoint

The moment of the "field" repair of the torsion was captured.

This field is called a dump in our country! Everything rusted here (metal-metal, metal-sand friction places), for 10 years already.

[mark1]

Quote: cashpoint

"Tractors" - as Tagil machines are called in the Russian army - are poor in operation

It is not necessary to recklessly re-sing other people's songs, it is better to turn to the facts - the "tractors" would be bad, they would not spread all over the world and now there is a demand for them. Gas turbines are crying (T-80 is really a tank song), but the world prefers "tractors" although Russia would sell a couple of thousand eighties with pleasure. Hence the conclusion - not everything that is cool is in demand, equipment is valued for its complex of qualities, and here everything is in order for the T-72/90.

[Kars]

Quote: mark1

it is better to turn to the facts - the "tractors" would be bad, they would not spread all over the world and now there is a demand for them

This is the merit of the USSR and the fact that the simplified T-72M became an export tank. Now India provides demand in which the USSR built a tank assembly plant, and writing off debts to third world countries, as well as credit lines.

Quote: mark1

although a couple of thousand eighty Russia would sell with pleasure

UVZ hat to eat his hat))) And by the way, South Korea for some reason decided to take the T-80U into account of the debt.

T-72 is a tank for developing countries.

[mark1]

Quote: Kars

For some reason, South Korea decided to take the T-80U into account of the debt.

Yes, I took, in my opinion, 48 pieces, just enough for a training battalion of the "enemy" and a run-in of our own and American military and the UVZ hat has nothing to do with it. It is practically impossible to break into the market of developed countries, everything is divided between insiders and outsiders there are not expected in large numbers, so, a battalion to a training ground is the limit. So developing countries are the most promising direction, especially India, and she has tried a lot of things and the T-90 at the moment suits her more than other options. If the USSR had offered the T-64 to the Indians, then nothing good would have come of it, too complicated and unreliable, at that time, the technique would have simply scared them, they still have a lot of jambs due to low technical culture.

[Kars]

Quote: mark1

and the UVZ hat has nothing to do with it

would it be and decide to sell the T-80 and not to starve.

Quote: mark1

India, and she tried a lot of everything and the T-90 at the given moment suits her more than other options.

what did she overreach? from the moment the USSR assembled the tank assembly plant?

Quote: mark1

If the USSR would offer the Indians T-64 t

Indians were given the idea of ​​exporting. yes, and it’s not a fact that Indians could carry out both assembly and operation of such an advanced machine as the T-64

Quote: mark1

. So developing countries are the most promising area

They still love it and cheaper (if not with a non-repayable loan)
therefore, your conclusions are not consistent.

Quote: mark1

would be bad "tractors", would not spread all over the world and now there is a demand for them

which you yourself have confirmed by indicating the low technical level of India.

[mark1]

For kars
Why are you so nervous, dear Kars? Well, is it really that the UVZ hat (read grated) and stupid Indians are to blame for everything, who don’t see that their real happiness is being forged in the shops of them. Malysheva? Believe in the good and you will be happy.

[Kars]

Quote: mark1

Why are you so nervous, dear Kars?

Tired of clarifying common truths.

Quote: mark1

stupid Indians who do not see

they see - and they are trying to stir up their own Arjun. Negotiations are ongoing with Israel on the modernization of the T-90 and so on.

Quote: mark1

forged in the shops of the da them. Malysheva?

I would even be happy to buy INDIA MS it could push Pakistan to buy strongholds.

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

I would even be happy to buy INDIA MS

so kind of going to buy
topwar.ru ›33372-indiyskaya ... poluchit ... t-90sm.html
by the way you Kars should be in the know

[Kars]

Quote: maxvet

by the way you Kars should be in the know

I am aware that there are no official contracts for the supply of MS.

Quote: maxvet

maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that the T72 was built initially as a mobilization and export

This is an indicator of the level of quality, and a crime against TANKSTROSTROENIE is the decision to modernize it to the detriment of the T-80U, which threw off the tank construction of the Russian Federation for 20 years.

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

This is the merit of the USSR and the fact that the simplified T-72M became an export tank

maybe I’m not right, but it seems that the T72 was originally built as mobilization and export, and therefore simplified, but based on your words, this is a crime against the T-64 and T-80

[Oleg Kharkov]

Empty camouflage is not for Ukraine, so apparently export models, but in front, by chance, there is no such technique?

[REZMovec]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

Empty camouflage is not for Ukraine, so apparently export models, but in front, by chance, there is no such technique?

This is not desert camouflage.

[Oleg Kharkov]

Isn't this a "desert"?

[Akim]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

Isn't this a "desert"?

Desert, desert. With this coloring, the easiest repainting.

[PLO]

it will be interesting to know the results of acceptance, as well as the timing of the next batch

generally see

[Cherdak]

Quote: Akim

Stop grinding your teeth and in every news from Ukraine see a catch!

How not to creak? "A pack is more convenient," but here Ukraine, as a malicious "violator of the convention," will either throw an airplane to the Chinese for copying, or an aircraft carrier. The Americans poked their teeth - "white swans" under the knife. Even NITKu pross .. or.

It's just that all this technique is perceived as post-Soviet - cheap and reliable in critical conditions. But there is a suspicion that embarrassment will come out again. Damp while the tank ...

[Kars]

Quote: Cherdak

Americans poked their teeth - "white swans" under the knife

And why did they poke so badly that as soon as the Russian Federation ceased to stupid and gave money (by gas) they were sold?

Quote: Cherdak

then the plane will throw the Chinese to copy

Type of RF is not the same?

Quote: Cherdak

But the Bank of Russia helps with all its strength with its silver!

and how help is combed?

[Cherdak]

Why did they poke so badly?

Under pressure from the US Department of State on the leadership of Ukraine in 1996-1999, these pests eliminated 29 strategic missile-carrying aircraft (10 Tu-160, 19 Tu-95MS). This is where the Russians really got excited and in the absence of pennies in 1999-2000, in accordance with an intergovernmental agreement, Ukraine sold Russia 8 Tu-160, 3 Tu-95MS and 581 cruise missiles X-55 to pay the Ukrainian debt for the supplied natural gas to amount of $ 285 million i.e. as they could, they so quietly poked ... It is a pity that Putin did not come to power then.

Type of RF is not the same?

No, not like that. The prototype Su-33 (prototype T10K aircraft of Soviet times) was purchased by China from Ukraine, and has been thoroughly studied. Russia trades in lots, not single samples, and even prototypes. Can you imagine Russia selling China, for example, the T-50-3? Like already worked his way, so let the Chinese put themselves in a museum?

[Kars]

Quote: Cherdak

Under pressure from the US Department of State on the leadership of Ukraine in 1996-1999, these pests eliminated 29 strategic aircraft

And why pests? Ukraine needed them? No. Ukraine without a nuclear state. Do you need planes to contain money? Are needed, but where to get them?

Quote: Cherdak

This is where the Russians really

And to what were they stupid? They thought they would give me? So, apart from the Russians, no one is to blame.

Quote: Cherdak

No, not like that

And who sold the S-300? And two aircraft-carrying cruisers? Without removing their secret equipment?

Quote: Cherdak

. Can you imagine Russia selling China, for example, the T-50-3?

Why present? Is there a joint project with India? And it’s not a fact that China is buying documentation directly from the factory — at what pace China is developing fifth-generation fighters.

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

and how help is combed?

information-raft PR, and also at biathlon damask showed
That would be good to disperse all these PR managers with a thin broom

[Kars]

Quote: maxvet

information and promotion PR,

It is interesting and who, besides those who are interested in tanks (before whom BM Oplot doesn’t need PR), will know what the tank is in the picture?

[Vital 33]

The Americans "sniffed" with a tooth and you cut all the BZHRK ... Don't you remember?

[Cherdak]

Quote: Cristall

Cool thing this stronghold
hard to Kharkiv people but

But the Bank of Russia helps with all its strength with its silver! True, pretending to confuse the affiliation of the sun

[Hudo]

Quote: Cherdak

the Bank of Russia helps with all its strength with its silver! True, pretending to confuse the affiliation of the sun

Um ... Prematurely scorched. But after the abolition of the unforeseenness as unnecessary and the trial of its cryptors with the tribunal, it will be so.

[Oleg Kharkov]

But I specially bought these T-shirts - I wear them. I like him, damn it, a great car. I am glad for the Malysh players and I sincerely hope that the Thai contract will not be the last one for Oplot. Yes, and ours will finally post to the troops in acceptable quantities.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Oleg Kharkov

and I sincerely hope that the Thai contract will not be the last one for Oplot.

Well, if you do 5 pieces a year, then in the next 10 years there will not be enough strength for more

[e3tozy]

Quote: xetai9977

Stronghold "judging by the performance characteristics, a good tank. In vain it hayut. If you don't like the policy of the Ukrainian leadership, then tell me, what does the tank have to do with it? I wish the Ukrainian people success in overcoming difficulties. Every success for them.

Cool car, well done! Good luck! Factory workers earned hard-earned money!

[4952915]

You can only be happy for the Ukrainians and congratulate. Well done that work and make weapons. And God forbid that the whole world buy weapons from Russia and Ukraine, and not from the United States.

[4952915]

You can only be happy for the Ukrainians and congratulate. Well done that work and make weapons. And God forbid that the whole world buy weapons from Russia and Ukraine, and not from the United States.

[Guilty]

What the tank did, well done!
That the buyer was found-well done in the square!
But what really arouses interest is the future CREWS of the Thai army!

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Guilty

What the tank did, well done!
That the buyer was found-well done in the square!
But what really arouses interest is the future CREWS of the Thai army!

They are great on mopeds and mopeds .. It's a pity tanks! Business what can you do ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: Guilty

What the tank did, well done!
That the buyer was found-well done in the square!
But what really arouses interest is the future CREWS of the Thai army!

They are great on mopeds and mopeds .. It's a pity tanks! Business what can you do ...

[Kars]

Quote: MIKHAN

It’s easier for them on bicycles and mopeds.

You are sure?

[Vitaly Anisimov]

I am sure honestly! Tanks for parades and internecine showdowns .. Territories are small on large in bronics with RPGs cheaper and more efficient!

[Kars]

Quote: MIKHAN

I am sure honestly!

In vain.


The Chinese really have already been written off.

[Kars]

______________

[Cristall]

Thailand seems to have a difficult situation. There are such "friends" all around that we need an army.
A small opportunity to test tanks in battle is real.
By the way in Pakistan too ..
Kharkov - well done.

[Guilty]

Now there is still a situation everywhere))) But Thailand has one advantage - plastic surgery It is better not to be captured by them))). And then there is no point in getting free, the friends hesitate with requests: "Let me touch"

[Cherdak]

Quote: Kars

I would like the Ukrainian Armed Forces to receive many new weapons

Promising developments are too good. It is a pity that Europe will poher all this soon

[Kars]

Quote: Cherdak

It is a pity that Europe will poher all this soon

And you can mechanism How poherit?

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And you can mechanism How poherit?

They give a loan to modernize production.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

They give a loan to modernize production.

And?

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And?

They take a loan with great pleasure, but they will not be able to repay. Oh, don’t just say that after giving a loan a queue of buyers will appear or the loan conditions will be soft and will be nursed with a delay.
How many loans were not given to Greece and other countries, when they joined the EU, all their production was poorer this time, the second will be given such conditions that it will be impossible to fulfill them. So they will close the plants, do you think the infusion of the dough can solve the problem? By no means, this exacerbates it.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Take a loan with great pleasure,

And why now loans do not fill up?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

How much did not give loans to Greece and other countries, when joining the EU

And after entering give. You deviate from the topic

Quote: Cherdak

. It is a pity that Europe will poher all this soon

Quote: Phantom Revolution

They give a loan to modernize production.

How did you get the idea that loans to modernize production in the military-industrial complex will be given without a business plan?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

How many loans did not give Greece and other countries, when joining the EU all their production poher this time

Greece made tanks? I did not know that the Greek military-industrial complex was well developed.

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Kars

And why now loans do not fill up?

Far from it, negotiations are already being held with the IMF. The fact is that Ukraine, to put it mildly, is insolvent and does not consist in any block that could lend it.

Quote: Kars

How did you get the idea that loans to modernize production in the military-industrial complex will be given without a business plan?

The business plan, from reality, can be very different, many have already regretted that they "modernized". I won't prove something to you, if you want to wear pink eyes further, it's your business. There are examples of the Balts, your example will not be an exception.

[Kars]

Quote: Phantom Revolution

Far from being negotiating with the IMF

Three years they ALREADY see.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

e is not in any block that could lend her.

and what is now being loaned only to block members?

Quote: Phantom Revolution

I won’t prove anything to you

and it’s not worth it - you are confusing soft with warm.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

many have already regretted that they "modernized".

But this should be confirmed.

Quote: Phantom Revolution

There are examples of the Baltic states

The Baltic states do not channel, they are very small, and under the USSR they were artificially pumped.

[voliador]

Yes, remember how Iraqis kicked back from your defective APCs! If the scrappers had not ordered, they would have taken them. Yes, and they would require a penalty. And not fat .

[Tex]

I want to join in the congratulations to Kharkovites on the miracle they created in the sense of production conditions, etc. Regarding the discussion around the stronghold, I want to say that those who bet on him and on the t-90,95, as on promising vehicles, are better off than others to arm them.

[Andrew 447]

I’m wondering if any of the Ukrainian forum writers were in OPLOT or hobbies in T-64?

[Tex]

what will "sitting" in them give "writers"? if you mean the impossibility of conducting hostilities after the march in all Soviet tanks, then this was already somewhere, there is such a thing))

[Andrew 447]

I mean a forum participant from Ukraine who, being a career tanker with at least 5 years of experience, or a runner from the Malyshev factory, has experience in driving and shooting T-64/80 tanks and shot, drove an OPLOT tank and can expertly (without advertising slogans and brochure) compare these machines with each other. I mean the real advantages and the jambs.

[Tex]

oh what are you talking about, I can only say that comparing the 64th and the stronghold is not correct, the KBE of these machines is about 0,6 and 1,1, respectively, if we take abrams m1 as a unit

[Andrew 447]

You very seriously got excited with a high coefficient for the M1.T-64B (vol. 447) 1981 issue. I tore the abrashu as a hot-water bottle. In terms of armament, 125 mm D-81 and especially the presence of the TUS. I will not talk about maneuverability at all. Resource Abrash on the chassis and engine 2 times lower.

[Tex]

here it is the T-64, the tanks of the subsequent series are already higher than the index, and since this indicator is the sum of many indicators, thanks to more advanced electronics the Abrams turned out to be higher than the 64th, but lower than some modifications of the 80th (by the way, even Western techies consider it to be the best owl exactly t-80)

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

I mean the real benefits and the shoals.

And you can still have a real user with T-90MS and the tester of Almaty)))))))

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

And you can still have a real user with T-90MS and the tester of Almaty)))))))

Here at least the mechanic slips

[Andrew 447]

We don’t discuss the T-90SM or Armata or Malyshevtsy sell this car to the Thais along with Oploty? We are discussing an article about the Oplot and its advantages over other tanks. And the advantages are not from advertising brochures, but real. So, I’m still waiting for practical answers, not writers.

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

And the advantages are not from advertising brochures, but real. So, I’m still waiting for the answers of practitioners, not writers.

Wait.
As I wait about MC and Armata.

[sapran]

and? The taiqi themselves have explained more than once or twice why the interest in "strongholds" is aroused - the "price-quality" ratio
They initially generally dreamed of getting K2 from South Korea, but the price turned out to be very heavy for the country's budget. They calculated the options of how the neighbors behave with the T-72 family and decided that this did not suit them. (and under the Malaysian contract they have information oh how much).
So the choice was actually not great ...

[Akim]

Quote: sapran

They initially generally dreamed of getting K2 from South Korea.

Only not K2, but K1A1. And "Oplot" won against him in a fair fight. True, the fact that the BTR-3E was successfully operated by them played into the hands. Pakistan had no choice, and Thailand could organize a tender no worse than the Peruvian one.

[sapran]

No one argues that having received the BTR-3E and having issued a special chassis before placing an order + we received a bonus. perhaps here I liked the work to eliminate the shortcomings identified on the spot, it is possible that the equipment came along with the gym complex (and it is very decent and functional) which cannot but please the receiving side, but the fact is on the face.
But in Peru, everything went not in our favor (not in Malyshev’s favor) since you don’t miss but compete with the T-72-90 in this region:
1. The party has been operating the T-54-55 family for a long period of time (and this is the engine, track rollers, the nomenclature of fuels and lubricants, a similar maintenance schedule, training manuals, etc., etc.)
2. Commercial offer on the T-90 and as an option the replacement of the T-55 with the T-72 at a bargain price (and these are issues of unification of the tank fleet in the main groups - saving)
3. and in the light of the last exhibition on the basis of the decommissioned T-55, ala BMPT-55 can make exotic! I understand, but suddenly the partisans will start.

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

but in Peru, everything went not in our favor (not in Malyshev’s favor) since you don’t say anything but compete with the T-72-90

Well, so far it’s not very smooth there either. There is still every chance. Unless the Russian Federation will give a loan for the purchase.

Quote: sapran

2. Commercial offer on the T-90 and as an option the replacement of the T-55 with the T-72

Are you up to date with the commercial offer? Maybe you know how many you requested for the T-90?

[sapran]

Forgive Kars, but unfortunately ZIM won't break off there
Thanks to the Peruvians already for partially offsetting the costs of typhon.
Just like that "important people" for "three nine lands" do not jump!
with regards to the commercial proposal ... but do you need it? this is not trolling just for us circumstances.
In the neighborhood, people discussed the problems with the T-90 (Khlopotov), ​​so with Peru the best reason to solve the problem of the early T-90 + for "very cheap" will clean the arsenals with the T-72

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

so with Peru the best reason for solving the problem of early T-90 + for "very cheap" will clean the arsenals with the T-72

Do the Peruvians really look like suckers? Think of the used T-90 will lead? Vryatli. And do not clean the arsenal of the T-72.

Quote: sapran

Forgive Kars, but unfortunately ZIM won't break off there

Different accidents cannot be ruled out.

Quote: sapran

Asem commercial offer ... and you need it?

It would not be necessary, I would not ask.

Quote: sapran

Just like that "important people" for "three nine lands" do not jump!

Is this about Shoigu? It means nothing special.

[sapran]

Why are the people so categorical? As a rule, "suckers" don't just happen on the arms market.
1. Offered 30-54 T-90 (relatively speaking, Peruvian) and 150-200 T-72 (almost Peruvian) (exaggerated)
Under the proud name we can have tanks that are capitalized and reduced to the financial capabilities of a small but very proud country, in which a number of systems are unified at the request of the customer, for example (they unify MTO, communications, night sights, put a "relic" and a jar of "delicious jam" .. ...
2. The fate I specified above with the replaced T-55s also has the right to development ...

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

1. Offered 30-54 T-90 (relatively speaking Peruvian) and 150-200 T-72

So you know or don’t know what is the essence of the commercial offer?

And this against the background of 180 Chilean Leopards 2 and negotiations on the purchase of 100 Leo2A5 with a set of upgrades to the same level of another 100?

It is about B \ y?

Quote: sapran

small but very proud country

Which would have gone to the Chinese VT-1 if not for Kharkov with a claim to re-export MTO

Quote: sapran

2. The fate I specified above with the replaced T-55s also has the right to development ...

it has a right, but it is very doubtful.

[sapran]

Kars more than what I wrote off in Peru, I can’t write (and so everything in my opinion is simple and not veiled)
If you are at least a little bit in the topic regarding the market of B \ U BTVT then you should be aware that with the proposals for the T-72 from Russia.

[Kars]

Quote: sapran

Kars more than what I wrote for Peru I can not write

Sorry

Quote: sapran

so everything in my opinion is simple and not veiled)

I had a different opinion. Although I thought you know something special.

Quote: sapran

If you are at least a little bit in the topic regarding the market of B \ U BTVT then you should be aware that with the proposals for the T-72 from Russia.

It’s very bad, because they want to sell a more expensive T-90? From the last Venezuela for the money of the Russian Federation? And Bangladesh, in spite of the loan, preferred Chinese tanks if I’m not mistaken.
It’s kind of like there

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

Well, so far it’s not very smooth there either. There is still every chance. Unless the Russian Federation will give a loan for the purchase.

okay, what credit, we’ll give for free and more money on top of the service. after all, it’s only Kharkovites who honestly win tenders

[Kars]

Quote: maxvet

okay, what credit, we’ll give for free and more money on top

All, it’s very probable. Another way has come from the USSR on bad loans. And writing off the debts of Algeria and Iraq to the Russian Federation is a testament to it. But the Russian Federation at least beats off by imposing its military contracts. And it’s interesting that Algeria got the debts written off, and T-90 bought, and Marroko where conducted a tender involving T-90 won China.

[Akim]

Quote: sapran

The party has been operating the T-54-55 family for a long period of time (and this is the engine, track rollers, the nomenclature of fuels and lubricants, a similar maintenance plan, maintenance, training, etc., etc.)

It is not a matter of how the military decides, but politicians decide. Peru T-90 is leased, i.e. already finished. And not enough. . Dee and read the Peruvian forums http://www.defensa.pe/, the question is not resolved, what else to do with the T-55. Either Typhoons, or BMP.

[sapran]

Akim of the proposal from the Russian side for work and a number of "Wishlist" I wrote off. Then you are 100% right. Will the "penesy-tugriks" of the uncle of politics give it all or not? But Kars is right that if a loan comes from a "Big, generous and very rich country" then in the light of some local "troubles" the decision will be made. (after all, it will be enough to quickly and quickly get all this and master it) and this is achievable in the case of the calculation I gave ...

[sapran]

not really "writer" to be honest: but for 21 years "sat" in some cars
1. Ob. 172, Ob. 184
2. About 219RB (fact-finding)
3. About 447A (434)
4. About 478B (preparation of the first specialists from Pakistan to KISV)
chassis and a number of "pokatushek" Germany, China, Ancient M48 do not write

[EdwardTich68]

I don't really understand in tanks, you can only see that this is a "Russian twin" I wonder why the Americans and the Germans
15-20 tons heavier than ours?

[ATATA]

Quote: EdwardTich68

I don't really understand in tanks, you can only see that this is a "Russian twin" I wonder why the Americans and the Germans
15-20 tons heavier than ours?

Because they have 4 crew members, and we have 3.
Accordingly, a larger internal volume is needed, this volume must be protected by armor.
Hence the extra weight.

[EdwardTich68]

Do you think that 19 tons are given for each? ”I got the idea that our tanks are" medium "and theirs are" heavy ".

[Kars]

____________________________

[Guilty]

if we take abrams m1 as a unit
How lovely!!!!! Why do you take abrams for 1? American brands do not give rest?

[Tex]

this is not for me, the Abrams tank itself is not a masterpiece, but the sum of three complex indicators (CBE, economic algorithm, and initially a design with a huge resource for modernization, that is, the generation +++ at the time of production launch) is the best

[Atlantus]

Quote: ATATA

Quote: Vital 33

You can’t compare with Russia since the USSR either, so such comparisons are useless ... it’s not sad.

The RSFSR modern Russia is already surpassed.
The RSFSR, for example, built 75 lemons m2 of housing in 1989, and Russia in 2012 built about 140!
The Ukrainian SSR in 1989 built 25 Lyamov, and in 2012 built 5 !!!!!
I’m telling you as a construction customer.
Our company operates in 7 regions of the Russian Federation, we will not go to Ukraine!
NO ECONOMIC ACTIVITY !!!!!!!
That sounds like a sentence!

Activity may not.
And in Russia, as for the construction of housing, I’ll say that I see every day. How to build 9-storey houses in 4-6 months. Everything is quick. The foundation is 1,5 meters. Concrete did not stand, and already the walls are laid. And then they stand for years ... populated by 20-25%. From the fact that the price of squares from the paravoz. The props alone. At least ... in the south of Russia.

[maxvet]

Quote: Atlantus

And then they stand for years ... populated by 20-25%

The picture is similar with us, but I see the reason in another - people invest money in housing (if any), even take a mortgage for it. They buy an apartment, then they try to find tenants there, they live with their parents themselves, and thus pay off the mortgage. What do you mean by a props? We have private companies building all houses, and if apartments are not for sale, they will not build

[builder]

- Our experts say that there is affordable housing in Russia.
- Excuse me, but the Russians have a completely different opinion and say that housing is not available ...
- But they are not experts ...

[maxvet]

Quote: stroitel

Excuse me, but the Russians have a completely different opinion and say that housing is not available ...

but still buy this most inaccessible housing

[31231]

Let me then ask, for whom is so much housing being built? Are we such a large percentage of bourgeois?

[EdwardTich68]

Housing will become available in 5-7 years, these are market conditions.

[AlexxNik]

The Thais decided that they are more than a squad of good Ukrainians, cheaply tear up a good tank, taking advantage of the financial snag of the latter, ohhh how bitterly it will be to admit that the Ukrainians turned out to be the same.

[Alekseev]

I don’t want to take part in long and fruitless debates, moreover, often amateurs, “generous” patriots, etc., such as: “Oplot” is a good - bad tank, “has not yet died”, no “has already died”, etc. At the forum, such disputes were set on edge.
I (and, perhaps, someone else) as a person who has been operating tanks with a power plant similar to the "Oplot" for a fairly long time is interested in one question in essence.
Push-pull 5TDF, 6TD are the most heat-stressed tank diesel engines in the world. During operation, they constantly warmed up, temperatures above 27 degrees Celsius required a limitation of the power mode, as well as operation in the mountains. A little heat, so 115 degrees is the norm. And this despite the fact that in the summer there was no question of using antifreeze. Its heat capacity is lower than that of water.
Well, in those days they wrote in the instructions that such a coolant temperature is permissible for a short time. I know that even now the manufacturer admits (short-term?) Already 130 degrees. At the same time, the performance characteristics write that operation is possible in hot weather at air temperatures up to 55 degrees.
What a miracle is this? maybe one of the smart specialists will explain what technical decisions the plant made in order to make the cooling system so efficient? And why there was no such efficiency before?
Or are such statements the essence of self-promotion?

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

maybe one of the smart specialists will explain what technical decisions the plant made in order to make the cooling system so efficient?

But this can not be a trade secret?

and conclusions can be drawn from the long-term operation of the T-80UD / T-84 in Pakistan. In the adoption of the MTO for the joint Sino-Pakistani tank Al-Khalid, the extension of China's option to purchase the MTO for the Chinese export tank VT-1

[Alekseev]

This picture was already laid out.
Thank you.
But, given that you are apparently very close to operating in Pakistan, as well as various armored contracts and options, I would like something on the merits.
It is possible without "full disclosure of commercial secrets" .
So, if there is a forum, those who are personally up to date, I would like to hear their competent opinion.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

This picture was already laid out.
Thank you.

Repeat the mother of learning.

Quote: Alekseev

options, I would like something on the merits.

You do not have enough indirect data to draw conclusions? Why do you ... have .. questions? Are you going to buy?

Quote: Alekseev

So, if there is a forum, those who are personally up to date, I would like to hear their competent opinion.

And if they don’t? Will it prove something? By the way, you can go to Pakistani forums.

[Oleg Kharkov]

http://www.morozov.com.ua/rus/body/oplot_mbt.php
Morozov Design Bureau website - item "Cooling system". Probably, the opinion of the developers of the "Oplot" MBT will be quite competent in this case.

[Alekseev]

Thanks for the link.
Nor are there any opinions of the developers there. Yes, and they have an opinion about the BTT developed and produced by them, everyone always has the same positive. Be they even in Kharkov, even in N. Tagil, Leningrad or Omsk.
But, nevertheless, he noticed that, knowing about the illness of their offspring - a tendency to overheat, and, probably, realizing the inevitability of similar questions to my own, they posted some information on their website (two lines).
There is no "commercial secret" here, which Comrade Kars was worried about preserving.
The way is simple: the capacity of the Oplot cooling system was increased by more than 30%, and the productivity of the water pump was also significantly increased. But it is too simple ... Do not forget that the capacity has increased by more than 40%!
That is why it is not the "nonsense" in the biased media that is interesting, but the opinion of a tank engineer - a "Russian-speaking" practitioner who is not associated with the plant, design bureaus and contracts. It is true that it is difficult to find such a tank now, the tank is produced in a small batch, it almost does not go to the Ukrainian army, there were also few Berez, but perhaps someone will be found. And there is no reason to tell foreign customers the details. In Pakistan, someone who is too talkative can cut off their tongue and say that "so and bulo". It was during the period of the Perdyukov reforms that high-ranking generals carried all kinds of nonsense in newspapers.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

"Birches" were also few,

And that there are no friends with the Kantemirovskaya and Taman divisions?

[Guilty]

And what "Oplot" is supplied to these divisions?

[Alekseev]

I had one captain with 4 TD (Kantemirovskaya), there was a battalion there fifteen years ago, if I am not mistaken "Berez" (T-80UD)
He was just engaged in a combat training group. About the 6TD engine, his opinion on operational issues is as follows: the 5TDF analogue with all its inborn problems, but, of course, much more powerful.
"In between battles" even a speed competition was organized between the T-80U and T-80UD.
Well, nothing new. The "Birch" started faster, then a tank with a gas turbine engine began to overtake it. This captain was sitting at the levers of the "Birch" and in the "excitement of the struggle" cut oil injection on it on the move (prohibited, harmful to the engine),
But the finish line was already close, and the "Birch" with a huge blue train came to the floor of the hull earlier.
There were people nowadays! What a biathlon is here!

[Andrew 447]

A wide range of combat missions can be solved in various climatic, meteorological and road conditions in the range of ambient temperature from minus 40 ° С to plus 55 ° С, relative humidity up to 98% at a temperature of plus 25 ° С, altitude up to 3000 m above sea level and dustiness encountered in actual useOpen the T-64 manual with engine 5 TDF and it says the same thing, but it doesn’t say that it corresponds to reality by 50% and that is thanks to the dedication of the crew and deputy technical officer.

[SV]

as far as I remember in the media it sounded that Pakistan was actively negotiating with the Russian Federation on the purchase of equipment (including tanks), but they were refused (most likely for Indian reasons).

[Kars]

Quote: SV

as far as I remember in the media it sounded that Pakistan was actively negotiating with the Russian Federation on the purchase of equipment (including tanks), but they were refused (most likely for Indian reasons).

India began purchasing T-90 after Pakistan received the T-84.

Quote: Andrey 447

If I am not mistaken in 1987 in Turkmenistan (Tedzhen)

And why did they drive it to check when the T-64 has already been discontinued?

By the way, in Uzbekistan they operate the T-64 until now.

[Andrew 447]

And from the storage bases sent to scrap?

[Kars]

Quote: Andrey 447

And from the storage bases sent to scrap?

Why is it that they pulled it so? Until 1987, were they ignorant of how the tank would behave in Turkmenistan?

And ours are still stored. But there are too many of them.

[maxvet]

Quote: Kars

India began purchasing T-90 after Pakistan received the T-84.

so after that or

Quote: Kars

? from the moment the USSR built a tank assembly plant?

[Kars]

Quote: maxvet

so after that or

You are funny)))
The USSR is building a plant in Avadi in India and not expensively selling a license for the T-72M1
India has stamped the nth amount of Ajeya (not Arjun) quality very controversial.
Pakistan bought a T-1998 from Ukraine in 99-84
In 2004-6, India decided (without a tender) to buy a T-90 and assemble at its factory T-90 from a machine kit from the Russian Federation. And who eventually got the nickname Night Butterfly.

[Andrew 447]

If I’m not mistaken, in 1987 in Turkmenistan (Tedzhen) they drove the T-64 and T-72 to test the operational suitability for Central Asia at our training ground. I was extremely surprised when they drove them with the technical team to our park. I studied at T -64 and served on them until Turkmenistan and solved problems with coolant temperature, but at air temperature + 25 + 27. And here +40 in the shade. T-72 crews went to rest after a daily march and refueling, T-64 crews every day they washed radiators and cyclones under pressure from outside, and there was some kind of tricky washer on the thermostat on the expansion tank. Only thanks to these measures not a single T-64 was overheated.

[Alekseev]

It's nice to hear a memory, and "completely in the hole," a brother by blood.
The question is - it’s not worth it that Kharkiv TDs and TDFs in general cannot be operated in difficult conditions. It’s possible they were driven under the USSR in the deserts of Central Asia, but .. problems arise much more often than with 4-stroke V-2 diesels. The root of these problems is difficult to eliminate: ultra-high boosting of the motor, extremely tight layout in closed-type MTO. Compare, to whom it is interesting, liter capacity, say, B-84 and 5TDF.
And if a new, perfectly functional tank still pulls the strap, albeit not long enough , in a mountainous desert or especially cold (low starting characteristics) terrain, then not a new motor starts to warm up very much and starts very poorly (both the starter, air intake and oil injection at the same time, there are not enough fingers on the hands) )
I doubt that the case has changed dramatically even now. But, of course, it is impossible to call 6TD unsuccessful. And there is a "commercial secret". It is called the price. True, this motor is complicated in production, but they have been producing a slave for a long time. strength is comparatively not expensive. And it's easy to change. It was thrown in a few hours, if only the engine was available. This is an undeniable advantage.
Still, the tank is not a truck, it doesn’t drive tens and hundreds of thousands of kilometers, its life span is not great in war.

[Kars]

Quote: Alekseev

I doubt that the matter has radically changed today.

The question is of course very interesting. And I personally have not exploited a single tank engine. Here is a curious moment - China, which is a clone of the T-72 engine, and a clone of the German 1 strong diesel engine, also buys considerable quantities of diesel in Kharkov.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Kars

China, which is a clone of the T-72 engine, and a clone of the German 1 strong diesel engine, also buys considerable amounts of diesel in Kharkov.

I can’t say anything, how much is there, what are they for China, what is their price. I am writing only about what I know for sure. Media information is often, to put it mildly, highly distorted.
Actually, things in the Celestial Empire do not advertise much, others like to slam free things for free, and so they don’t!
Well, it's time to start celebrating National Unity Day, all the members of the forum-Russians with a holiday!
Good luck and all other fans to chat on an armored topic!

[Andrew 447]

Maintainability 5 TDF in rembats, a separate conversation-repair only at the factory (at the same time, engines from the kapitalka are 50% with problems), which can not be said about the B-2 family. Somehow deputy for those. the battalion forced him to change the piston for 5 TDF for a couple, they stayed in the VET for almost 2 days. But after the repair, the engine above 4th gear did not pull. The V-2-62VR was repaired with a replacement sleeve, no problems at all. At the same time, I am a big fan of the T-64, a revolutionary machine for its time, but it requires highly qualified crews.

[sapran]

I had a chance to drag both tanks. Honestly, if we admit that the B-46M1 still agrees that the rembat is able to sensibly do the trick with the B-84, I am worried, I read about 5TDF open-mouthed, since deciding on a capital is possible only with a lot of "neglect" and wild desire. Therefore, I am skeptical about the reports about the successful repair of this type of engine in regular rembats.
5TDF engine is not for playful pens.
... like the latest versions of the B-84-92C ...
but the fact that if you were related to the zampotech then you could clearly find out that it is easier to replace 5TDF or the entire V-46-92 family and what this action can be done "on your knees" ...

[sapran]

To date, all tanks delivered to Pakistan have a coolant operating temperature of 125 *. for engines of the 6TD series, the materials of the cylinder liner and the piston group were modified, in addition, the main emphasis in the refinement was concentrated on improving the air cleaning system. At the moment, supplies of the MTO group for the joint Pakistani-Chinese tank "Al-Khalid" are underway (the main requirement is full compliance with the technical characteristics declared by the enterprise and completeness)

[The fat man]

Good article sincerely glad for Ukraine managed to bring technology to mind

[31231]

Quote: stroitel

There is nothing to be particularly proud of. In the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR, housing for the people was free. In the RSFSR, Russian builders who received a specialty in a vocational school or technical school worked as specialists, and semi-wild Uzbek Tajiks are building in Russia, the quality of work is questionable. Take away oil and gas from the Russian economy, I think there’s nothing to brag about.

Would you even ask what BAM International was building.

[Bad_gr]

SE "Plant them. V.A. Malysheva ", which is part of the Ukroboronprom Group of Companies, has mastered the full production cycle of tracks for the Oplot tank. This was announced by the Director General of the enterprise Vadim Fedosov.

“For the first time in 14 years, the plant completed a full cycle of manufacturing caterpillar parts for the Oplot tank and began assembling the caterpillar track with a metal lug,” V. Fedosov said.
..............
“Malyshev’s plant used to produce whole tracks, including rubberizing tracks. At the factory, workshop No. 630, which was engaged in this, was preserved. But at one time, it was decided to transfer this production to other enterprises. Today, the plant has restored its ability to produce tracked tracks for the most modern tanks, ”said V. Fedosov.
"Our mastering of the full cycle of manufacturing tracks for the Oplot tank is another step in the concentration of armored vehicles production at the Malyshev plant ....."
http://sdelanounas.in.ua/blogs/43118/#cut

[ikrut]

Quote: cashpoint

There is such a thing as ORGANIZATION of mass production, it takes time, the manufacture of equipment, blanks of armor parts, etc. So everywhere. When everything comes out on stream, everything will be much faster.

And what for for fifty tanks to fence serial production? The tanks will be gold. And more time will be required than, if "on the knee" to collect, like these five. I understand if the production plans include at least a few hundred more pieces. But they are not, it seems. Or is there? Maybe someone knows the sacred plans?

[kelevra]

It seems not bad tanks!