Military Review

Patriarch Kirill: Depravity of the benefits of civilization prevents to defeat corruption

180
Patriarch Kirill: Depravity of the benefits of civilization prevents to defeat corruptionRussian society has spoiled the benefits of civilization, and therefore can not overcome interethnic problems, crime and corruption, said the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill in Podolsk, near Moscow after laying wreaths at the monument to soldiers killed in World War II.


“We stopped walking, writing letters ... We stopped communicating with each other, often replacing this communication with virtual communication or telephone communication at best. We have stopped doing a lot. We have become very weak, ”said the patriarch.


According to him, when electricity is cut off in a particular city today, people often go into hysterics, perceive it as a disaster, RIA “News».
“There are cases of suicide only because electricity was cut off in large metropolitan areas,” said the head of the Russian Church.

He recalled that the weaker the "inner man" becomes, the more vulnerable he is, regardless of "how his muscles are pumped" and what position in society he holds. The patriarch emphasized that the victory in the Great Patriotic War was primarily a victory of our spirit.

“You can lose a lot in life if you have a weak spirit. Here the Church calls upon people, modern people, relaxed by the benefits of civilization, to cultivate their spirit, to become spiritually strong. Then we will get a lot. Then we will transform our Fatherland beyond recognition, ”he said.

“We will work hard, we will be courageous and strong, well-organized, able to solve many problems - from interethnic to corruption and crime: all those problems that today so complicate our lives,” said the primate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

“And the strength of the spirit is brought up by faith, brought up by morality, brought up by culture, brought up by tradition,” he added.

In September, the patriarch called for modernization of the country equal to Peter I and Alexander Nevsky Cathedral.
Originator:
http://vz.ru/news/2013/10/25/656712.html
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 09 New
    16
    The words the patriarch says are correct, but unfortunately the church often sets bad examples by some of its representatives.
    1. Civil
      Civil 28 October 2013 07: 39 New
      +7
      Well, how can I say that, in general, being a money-grubber in front of the flock ... you won’t go to heaven,
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Canep
      Canep 28 October 2013 07: 50 New
      +3
      About Patriarch Kiril:
      Patriarch of Moscow Kirill:

      - Since the early 1990s, Cyril has been accused of having links with the KGB in the Soviet period. Western journalists attribute to him the pseudonym “Mikhailov”.

      - A defendant in the “tobacco scandal” associated with the duty-free import of excisable goods into Russia by the Russian Orthodox Church. As a result of the scandal, Cyril received the nickname "tobacco metropolitan."

      - During the first visit to Kiev, the watch of the Breguet company was seen on the Patriarch. The price for this model ranges from 28 thousand euros to 36 thousand euros, depending on the seller.

      - In 2010, Odessa law enforcement officers in connection with the arrival of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill blocked the city streets not only for traffic, but also for pedestrians. In addition, according to residents of Odessa, the police checked bags and searched all the people who wanted to go through the square.

      - In the same year, due to Cyril’s visit to Kiev, the metropolitan traffic police asked the drivers not to go to the city center for four days.

      - After the statement of Patriarch Kirill about the mounted photographs on which he allegedly painted a Breguet watch for $ 30 thousand, bloggers found photos on the Russian Orthodox Church’s website where there are no watches on the patriarch’s hand, but they are reflected on the varnished table. The case received a serious response and after that the watch was returned to the photo of the patriarch.

      - Patriarch Kirill on the sentence to the participants of the punk group Pussy Riot: “The sentence against the blasphemers created a judicial precedent aimed at preventing future insults of religious feelings of believers, protecting shrines and cultural monuments from acts of sacrilege and mockery. Expressing a positive attitude towards this legal assessment, the church, compassionate to every sinner, appealed to the state with a request to show mercy to the convicts. However, it must be remembered that condescension and forgiveness are most effective in conjunction with repentance and determination not to repeat criminal acts in the future. Otherwise, instead of correction, it may give rise to a sense of permissiveness, which will cause new crimes. ”

      - In early 2012, the situation around the court case on damages for an apartment owned by the patriarch, whose neighbor was the defendant, received wide publicity. Based on the expert examination, the dust from repairs in the neighbor’s apartment contained components that were hazardous to health, including nanoparticles, and caused damage to the patriarch’s apartment, furniture, and a collection of almost 1600 books. The total amount of the claim amounted to about 19,7 million rubles. The patriarch denied any involvement in the lawsuit, as his second cousin lived in the apartment. The media expressed the opinion that the fact of owning an apartment contradicts the vow of non-possession, which every monk gives when tonsured. Source: http://censor.net.ua/r237565
      1. Gregazov
        Gregazov 28 October 2013 08: 43 New
        +6
        If ideological opponents constantly pour slop on you, then your path is right. The Orthodox Church has been persecuted throughout its history, and modernity is no exception.
        1. Canep
          Canep 28 October 2013 08: 47 New
          +4
          A watch for 30000 euros Cyril himself put on his hand. No one helped him in this. The question is not in the Russian Orthodox Church, but in its chapter.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 52 New
            13
            Quote: Canep
            A watch for 30000 euros Cyril himself put on his hand.

            If I were presented with a watch, I would also put it on. But I would not ask the person how much they cost. And you would not.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Canep
              Canep 28 October 2013 09: 17 New
              +6
              But to think that wearing the Patriarch is not necessary? And I would ask how much the gift costs, and what the consequences of wearing it await me. And certainly it wouldn’t be a good idea to walk the streets with a clock on hand, which cost 3 average salaries, they can kill for them. And do not delete uncomfortable comments.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 28 New
                +6
                Quote: Canep
                . And do not delete uncomfortable comments.
                What do you call this comment?
                Quote: Canep
                And if he was given a costume for BDSM, he would also put it on himself

                I don’t know what you thought, but before you write, you need to think with your head.
                1. Canep
                  Canep 28 October 2013 09: 32 New
                  +5
                  And what do you think when you write that once you donated it can be worn, so you can reach complete insanity: amulets, voodoo dolls, a nose ring, earrings.
                  The patriarch is not Yakubovich, and the Russian Orthodox Church is not a Field of Miracles to measure and wear whatever they give.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 47 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Canep
                    And what do you think when you write that once you donated it can be worn,

                    And why not?
                    Quote: Canep
                    so you can reach complete insanity: amulets, voodoo dolls, a nose ring, earrings.

                    Judging by the second consecutive similar post .......... *****. Once again, I recommend that you think!
                    1. Canep
                      Canep 28 October 2013 09: 54 New
                      +5
                      Alexander, you switched from discussion to direct moderation, your
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      ****. Once again, I recommend that you think!

                      I perceive as a direct threat.
                      1. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 11 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Canep
                        I perceive as a direct threat.

                        I clearly wrote to you, I recommend thinking that you would not write nonsense.
                      2. Canep
                        Canep 28 October 2013 10: 32 New
                        +6
                        You know, if the head of the church complains that it is impossible to defeat corruption due to corruption by the benefits of civilization, and at the same time his hours, comparable in value to my kopeck piece (apartment), are reflected from polishing the table about the cost of which I can only guess, I get a question for the Patriarch, and he himself sets an example to the flock, and if he has such luxuries (measured, guarded, residences, etc., I generally am silent), will he refuse any civilization benefits himself?
                        And to you, Alexander, I have another question, do you believe in God or in Patriarch Cyril, if you defend him like that?
                      3. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 47 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Canep
                        And to you, Alexander, I have another question, do you believe in God or in Patriarch Cyril, if you defend him like that?

                        A person who believes in God will not give offense to the Church and will defend it. One is not separable from the other. The Patriarch is the head of the Church and any attacks on the Patriarch are attacks on the Church and Faith.
                      4. Canep
                        Canep 28 October 2013 11: 03 New
                        +4
                        If you read the Bible, you should know that the church is not the Patriarch, the church is where two people talk about God.
                        And to say that the patriarchy is mired in luxury and excesses is necessary, otherwise the higher hierarchs will generally lose touch with the people and flock. With these conversations, we can make the church better.
                      5. Orik
                        Orik 28 October 2013 11: 36 New
                        0
                        We now have "every gopher in the field an agronomist". To solve the problems of the Church, you must be a member of it. The Church has had "problems" since its founding, when Judas betrayed Christ, but it has been successfully solving them for 2000 years. Solving problems does not require hysteria and blaming opponents, but love and adherence to the principle of do no harm.
                        In our country, the majority of the people have long lost contact with God (forum VO is a vivid confirmation), but this people, mired in mud from drunkenness to pride, believes that they can teach everyone without being an example. It is better to make the Church not by spiteful chatter, but by becoming an exemplary member of it, corresponding to his life with the Gospel, when a person takes the path of fulfilling the Gospel truths, he begins to understand his weakness. And so one theory from the series "scum, or I also have the right."
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 28 October 2013 15: 22 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Quote: Canep
                      And to you, Alexander, I have another question, do you believe in God or in Patriarch Cyril, if you defend him like that?

                      A person who believes in God will not give offense to the Church and will defend it. One is not separable from the other. The Patriarch is the head of the Church and any attacks on the Patriarch are attacks on the Church and Faith.

                      Sasha, what does the church have to do with it? After all, in Russia it’s not Catholicism and the patriarch is not the vicar of God on earth, the patriarch in Orthodoxy is a shepherd (let’s say the main one), so feed the flock with a personal example, therefore, claims to the patriarch are in no way attacks on the church
                      In Catholicism, the church and the pope, one whole, Orthodoxy and divided with Catholics because of not accepting this postulate, as always with respect hi
                    3. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 28 October 2013 15: 54 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      The Patriarch is the head of the Church and any attacks on the Patriarch are attacks on the Church and Faith.

                      Well, here I do not agree with you. Faith and church are different concepts. And the church discredits the current leadership. They have already retreated from all the canons, they almost kiss the gums with the rabbis, they accept gifts from the Gentiles, and deposition is supposed for this. Diomede wrote more about this. But he finished writing, he was deprived of dignity, and according to church rules, it was illegal. hi
                    4. cyberdamn
                      cyberdamn 28 October 2013 22: 27 New
                      -1
                      bullshit
                  2. tomket
                    tomket 28 October 2013 20: 46 New
                    0
                    The question is, do you often go to church, and how many times a year do you partake and confess?
            3. military
              military 28 October 2013 10: 56 New
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov

              And why not?

              and yet ... the gift of the gift is different ...
              in addition to who and on what occasion he was presented, it is important to whom exactly - Vladimir Gundyaev or Patriarch Kirill ... the associations are different ...
              although the "monks" of the third millennium are a very interesting phenomenon in itself ...
              Quote: Alexander Romanov

              Once again I recommend you - think!
              wink
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 59 New
                0
                Quote: military

                and yet ... the gift of the gift is different ...

                There is a post below with a quote from the Nautilus song, this koment is a good answer for you.
      2. tomket
        tomket 28 October 2013 20: 44 New
        +1
        and our patriarch does walk in black monasticism ???? By the way, I remember after the war, when Stalin decided to make the world center of Orthodoxy in Moscow, the Greek church began to water our church and the newly elected patriarch in every way, what kind of center of Orthodoxy can these rogue people have ???? they even have normal robes that are not patched; they don’t go in rags. Then they wrote back how much cloth and brocade to give out for the needs of the church.
    3. Botanologist
      Botanologist 28 October 2013 09: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      If I were presented with a watch, I would wear it too.


      And if you were given a nose ring?
      This is still a patriarch, a figure not ordinary, political. You need to think about actions.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 30 New
        +4
        Quote: Botanologist

        And if you were given a nose ring?

        They couldn’t give another example. Yes, it’s difficult for you.
        Quote: Botanologist
        This is still the patriarch, the figure is not ordinary, political.

        since when the Patriarch became a politician.
        1. military
          military 28 October 2013 11: 02 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          since when the Patriarch became a politician.

          since the "spiritual nostalgia" of the Russian political elite returned the lost sheep to the bosom of the church ...
          in this context, the Patriarch is not a politician today, he is a political instructor ... wink
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 28 October 2013 15: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          They could not give another example. Yes, it’s difficult for you.


          It’s easy for me, I have a casio watch for 1300 rubles crying . Quite a good watch, time is shown like any other.
          But modesty will not hinder the patriarch. You need to think about God when you call the flock to humility. And not about a watch for a million.
      2. DEfindER
        DEfindER 28 October 2013 09: 50 New
        +5
        Quote: Botanologist
        And if you were given a nose ring?

        :) And for you that there is no difference between a watch and a nose ring?
        Although in the light of recent trends probably really not ..
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist 28 October 2013 15: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: DEfindER
          And for you that there is no difference between a watch and a nose ring?


          Look at today's youth. You will meet not only rings, but also bolts. So everything is in development.
      3. andrejwz
        andrejwz 28 October 2013 10: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Botanologist
        And if you were given a nose ring?

        Did they give you something?
        You are a great fellow that you don’t wear.
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist 28 October 2013 15: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: andrejwz
          You are a great fellow that you don’t wear.


          Do we know each other? Maybe I wear it.
    4. Hon
      Hon 28 October 2013 10: 56 New
      +5
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      If I were presented with a watch, I would also put it on. But I would not ask the person how much they cost. And you would not.

      And then I would begin to spin around and frother, that there are none, and sketch them in Photoshop.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 11: 00 New
        -1
        Quote: Hon
        And then the Potm would begin to spin around and skim off, that there are none, and sketch them in Photoshop.

        What for? presented and presented.
        1. Hon
          Hon 28 October 2013 11: 06 New
          +4
          And why lie that there are no such? Just don't say lies for salvation
      2. DEfindER
        DEfindER 28 October 2013 11: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Hon
        and otmazyvatsya that there are none, and sketch them in Photoshop.

        Do you think that what is happening on the ROC website is completely controlled personally by Cyril? Well, they decided in the IT service in view of the scandal that arose, to make a forgery. Perhaps the person in charge has already been fired .. Cyril personally denied nothing.
      3. atalef
        atalef 28 October 2013 15: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Hon
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        If I were presented with a watch, I would also put it on. But I would not ask the person how much they cost. And you would not.

        And then I would begin to spin around and frother, that there are none, and sketch them in Photoshop.

        so the question is, is it interesting, but does the patriarch also have an icon attached to the dashboard?
  • andr1966a
    andr1966a 28 October 2013 09: 08 New
    -2
    You will learn how much new. Everywhere rot and deceit, even in the temple of human souls
  • Canep
    Canep 28 October 2013 07: 51 New
    +4
    About Filaret:
    - The head of the UOC of the Kiev Patriarchate Filaret does not approve of the act of the newly elected Pope Francis, who, after his election, left the Vatican in a minibus with other cardinals, and not in a personal limousine.

    “I do not approve of such actions. Because it’s a show of labor, but one must be humble in life before God, and not before people. ”

    Commenting on the fact that he himself drives an expensive Mercedes, Filaret said: “If I drove Russian cars, I would not be able to visit my dioceses, as many parishes as I attend. I visit from 10 to 20 dioceses a year due to the fact that there is a car that does not stop. And so I do not need such a car as a luxury, but as a means of fulfilling my duties. ”

    - About relations with the KGB: “All without exception! In Soviet times, no one could become a bishop if the KGB did not give consent. Therefore, it would be untrue to say that I was not connected with the KGB. He was connected, like everyone else. ” Source: http://censor.net.ua/r237565
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 08 New
      +3
      Quote: Canep
      About Filaret:

      Filaret is a schismatic, although this probably doesn’t mean anything to you.
      1. Canep
        Canep 28 October 2013 08: 41 New
        +4
        Whether he is a schismatic or not is not the case, they live, that Cyril, that Filaret, in a big way, but call for the rejection of the benefits of civilization. And the schismaticism of Filaret is most likely connected with the reluctance to share with the Russian Orthodox Church both grandmothers and power.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Canep
          Whether he is a schismatic or not is not the point, do they live, that Cyril, that Filaret, in a big way

          On what foot, are you quoting quotes from Saudi Bandera quotes now.
          Quote: Canep
          . And the schismaticism of Filaret is most likely connected with the reluctance to share with the Russian Orthodox Church both grandmothers and power.

          You would not write something about which you do not know anything!
          1. Canep
            Canep 28 October 2013 09: 04 New
            +1
            Enlighten .................
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 12 New
              0
              Quote: Canep
              Enlighten .................

              Is it weak? You have found time to seek for Bandera’s site, so find time for a good deed.
      2. atalef
        atalef 28 October 2013 15: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Canep
        About Filaret:

        Filaret is a schismatic, although this probably doesn’t mean anything to you.

        on his last visit to Kiev, he was just during the visit of Putin and the patriarch, he saw cars that one, the other, that Filareta, to the pride of the Russians I’ll say, the Russian patriarch will have better
        1. Hon
          Hon 28 October 2013 15: 35 New
          +4
          So our car from the FSO garage
    2. andrejwz
      andrejwz 28 October 2013 10: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: Canep
      I visit from 10 to 20 dioceses a year due to the fact that there is a car that does not stop.

      It is difficult to drive a car that does not stop.
  • Canep
    Canep 28 October 2013 07: 53 New
    +3
    About Pope Francis:
    The newly elected Pope (chose the name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi, who walked barefoot and preached mediocrity and asceticism):

    - when he was his archbishop, he prepared his own food, traveled by public transport and lived in a small apartment, and not in the luxurious residence that was due to him;

    - reduced the ceremony of intronization;

    - after his election, he went on a regular bus to the hotel, where he stopped on arrival from Buenos Aires, and he paid the bill for accommodation;

    - still lives in the hotel where he settled, having arrived at the conclave;

    - does not intend to move to the official papal residence - the Apostolic Palace, as "he loves to live and dine with everyone else";

    - Having examined his official residence in the Vatican, he stated that it was too large and asked to reduce the number of rooms allocated for it;

    - deciding not to disturb the secretary, he himself called the head of the Jesuit Order to General Adolfo Nicholas. The cameraman, who did not expect a call from the Pope, replied: “Pope? Yes? And I am Napoleon. " Francis reacted calmly, after which the operator realized his mistake;

    - considers the possibility of closing the Vatican Bank, which has been periodically at the center of high-profile scandals for several years;

    - stated that he wants to see Catholicism as “a poor church for the poor”; - refused the custom of talking with guests, sitting on a dais;

    - instead of custom-made famous red shoes, he wears ordinary black low shoes;

    - invites the Vatican gardeners, janitors and kitchen workers to the morning services he performs;

    - March 28, visited a prison for juvenile delinquents, where he washed the feet of 12 of its inhabitants;

    - personally called from Rome to the owner of a kiosk in Buenos Aires, who supplied him with fresh press, to thank for the services and to inform that he no longer needed newspapers;

    - made unplanned “exits to the people” several times, the last time he got out of the car to hug the disabled person;

    - refused the armored papamobile;

    - the fisherman’s ring - one of the main symbols of papal authority - was first made not of gold, but of gilded silver;

    - asked instead of the throne to establish an ordinary chair. Source: http://censor.net.ua/r237565
    1. zao74
      zao74 28 October 2013 09: 09 New
      +4
      And he allowed his subordinates to engage in pid ... her.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • zao74
    zao74 28 October 2013 09: 06 New
    +6
    And you do not have the idea that "some representatives" are "agents of influence" specially trained and introduced, and their goal is to discredit the Orthodox Church in the eyes of the flock, to destroy one of the main pillars of the Russian statehood.
    (From a conversation with the priest .... of a monastery.)
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 28 October 2013 09: 17 New
      +3
      Why doesn't the church itself fight these agents of influence? Putin here "teaches" Muslims to unite and fight against Wahhabism and others, but doesn't he give such advice to his priests?
      1. zao74
        zao74 28 October 2013 11: 01 New
        +1
        The Russian Orthodox Church, like secular power, rots from the head ...
        Putin’s entourage also has a lot of trash, framed, shit, liberals and other riffraff, which discredits the leadership of the country, sabotages the adoption and enforcement of laws and. etc.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 28 October 2013 10: 33 New
    0
    Quote: The same Lech
    The words the patriarch says are correct, but unfortunately the church often sets bad examples by some of its representatives.

    Quote: V. Vysotsky
    And neither the church nor the tavern -
    Nothing is holy!
    No guys it's not like that
    All wrong guys!
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 28 October 2013 07: 11 New
    +5
    "Russian society is spoiled by the benefits of civilization"
    why then the church does not take away these blessings from itself? seized in such a way that you could not tear it off. and the patriarch is in no hurry to refuse from preferential taxation on the trade in oil and cigarettes.
    "Pray to God, but don’t believe the monks"
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 18 New
      +9
      Quote: andrei332809
      and the patriarch is in no hurry to refuse preferential taxation on oil and cigarette trade

      Show me the church where they sell cigarettes. There are a lot of pictures on pseudo-sites, but it’s not in reality. Go to church and ask them to sell you cigarettes or vodka. Of course you won’t be sent, but they will look at you as a very unintelligent person.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 22 New
        +2
        If you shake the finances and property of the church now, many interesting facts will come up, I would like to learn more about the backstage life of the church.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 38 New
          +4
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          I would like to learn more about the backstage life of the church.

          Stop by any anti-Orthodox website and learn a lot and nothing at the same time.
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 44 New
            +3
            I don’t use Chernukha — serious sources are needed at a sort of a chamber of accounts.

            If the church wants to enjoy authority among the people, its activity should be transparent and the sources of income of the church are often in a fog - they are there and their invisible hehe.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: The same LYOKHA
              I don’t use Chernukha — serious sources are needed at a sort of a chamber of accounts.

              Look at the demotivators, most are satisfied with the yellow press.
              Quote: The same LYOKHA
              they are and their invisible hehe.

              Want to see who donated how much?
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 28 October 2013 08: 13 New
                +2
                No, I want to know if these donations correspond to the principles that PATRIARCH KIRILL preaches to us.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 26 New
                  +2
                  Quote: The same LYOKHA
                  u want to know if these donations match

                  Yes, stop by at any temple and find out. There is no secret.
      2. andrei332809
        andrei332809 28 October 2013 07: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Stop by the church and ask them to sell you cigarettes or vodka.

        no one says that these goods are sold in the church itself. simply, the companies involved in this are owned by the Russian Orthodox Church. Since the time of the Elkina, the patriarch has begged for the right to privileges. Not specifically for himself, but for the church
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 33 New
          +2
          http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=interview&div=209
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 47 New
            +6
            Quote: Gleb
            http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=interview&div=209

            You dripped in Google, read the headline and posted a link. You need to read, otherwise with such revelations wink In the 1990s, one of the Russian newspapers systematically published articles in which Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensky and Kaliningrad, the current locum tenens of the patriarchal throne, was accused of trading in alcohol and tobacco. The other day, the former head of the Federal Tax Service of the Russian Federation, Alexander Pochinok, denied this information and said that Vladyka at that time, on the contrary, suppressed illegal tax-free schemes of church income
            Well, thereafter in the text ...- With a sigh of relief and with a feeling of gratitude to God, I read the printout of this radio show on the Internet. Indeed, for many years a custom campaign was waged against Metropolitan Kirill in the tabloid press, where he was credited with trading in tobacco and vodka, where he was invented the vile nickname “tobacco metropolitan”. This was the work of one journalist who, by hook or by crook, tried to discredit the Metropolitan, but what a disgusting residue these publications left for many people! What colossal damage they inflicted - no, not to the Metropolitan, but to the Church! How many people were deceived by these publications, how many could have left the Church!
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 55 New
              +2
              Sanya, you’re an adequate person. I threw it for this.
              This topic has long been taken apart
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 11 New
                +2
                Quote: Gleb
                This topic has long been taken apart

                Judging by the comments, this is far from being true. Although the majority did not bother to find the truth.
            2. Hleb
              Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 58 New
              0
              there was such an opinion
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 36 New
          +9
          Quote: andrei332809
          and. simply firms involved in this belong to the Russian Orthodox Church.

          Do not bring nonsense, the so-called whistleblowers of the Church, bring proof where the Church produces cigarettes, condoms and vodka. One problem, in fact, all this turned out to be a lie. Those with Church and Faith nauseous throw such articles and with similar pictures. You will even be told that you saw it yourself and bought it, and when you ask where it was, you won’t be answered. Memory starts to fail.
          1. ele1285
            ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 01 New
            0
            Yes, God bless her, he trades or not. It would probably be more correct to speak not about the acquisition of the Russian Orthodox Church, but about priests and priests. As in our whole society, there are decent people, but there are, as in the fairy tale by A. Pushkin.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. zart_arn
      zart_arn 28 October 2013 07: 43 New
      +1
      Oh, these benefits of civilization ...
  • Hleb
    Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 13 New
    15
    We stopped walking

    your word is the truth Patriarch!




    1. Same lech
      Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 19 New
      +7
      The difference between a true believer and one who preaches faith is as huge as a chasm.
      Accordingly, their influence in their affairs.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: Gleb
      your word is the truth Patriarch!

      Judging by the clothes of people, b / w photo is the 80s. What did you decide to compare and to whom and what to show? In our city, the priests were the same. The state will stop helping and the result will be like that.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 37 New
        12
        The fact that Patriarch Pavel was very close to the people and the people love him very much is evidenced by numerous stories. Especially among them are many examples of asceticism and non-possessiveness of the Serbian Patriarch.
        So, it is known that he either walked around the city, or traveled by public transport - among the crowd of people without security, without accompanying persons. Everyone could walk up to him and talk to him. One of the stories about him, published in the "Tatiana's Day" edition, says that once, approaching the building of the Patriarchate, His Holiness Paul noticed many foreign cars at the entrance and asked whose cars they were. He was told that these were the cars of the bishops. To which the patriarch said with a smile: "If they, knowing the Savior's commandment about non-covetousness, have such machines, then what kind of machines would they have if this commandment did not exist?"
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Gleb
          The fact that Patriarch Pavel was very close to the people and the people love him very much,

          Our Patriarch is also loved by the people, but not by all. He is loved by those who go to Church with an open heart. Ordinary believers, and other "exposers" from them and there is no demand. Such were and will be, but they will not achieve anything.
        2. ele1285
          ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 08 New
          0
          [quote = Gleb] [i] The fact that Patriarch Paul was very close to the people and the people love him very much is evidenced by numerous stories. Especially among them are many examples of asceticism and non-possessiveness of the Serbian Patriarch.
          So, it is known that he either walked around the city, or traveled by public transport - among the crowd of people without security, without accompanying persons. Everyone could walk up to him and talk to him. One of the stories about him, published in the "Tatiana's Day" edition, says that once, approaching the building of the Patriarchate, His Holiness Paul noticed many foreign cars at the entrance and asked whose cars they were. He was told that these were the cars of the bishops. To which the patriarch said with a smile: "If they, knowing the Savior's commandment about non-covetousness, have such machines, then what kind of machines would they have if this commandment did not exist?"



          ONE, for the whole Christian world. And his "subordinates", like priests, and he did not know about it.
      2. Hleb
        Hleb 28 October 2013 07: 49 New
        +1

        ________________________________________________
    3. ele1285
      ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 03 New
      0
      Have you shown the Patriarch of Greece or just priests?
      1. Orik
        Orik 28 October 2013 11: 41 New
        +3
        This is the late Patriarch of Serbia.
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 28 October 2013 07: 14 New
    16
    You need to start with yourself! So that the words sound convincing.
  • soldat1945
    soldat1945 28 October 2013 07: 18 New
    0
    He says that it’s just right not for him to talk about it. Two new churches were built in Vladimir in me, but there are more than 70 of them in the city, and 5-10 grandmothers go there, with the exception of those where tourists are taken, but for that reason the almost 400 thousandth city only two pools, I would love to listen to this comrade if he would take and give the city or a sports hall or a pool, and without this, the miracle of the shepherd we all see!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 24 New
      +7
      Quote: soldat1945
      I have built two new churches in Vladimir, and there are more than 70 of them in the city

      Quote: soldat1945
      but for almost 400 thousandth city only two pools

      This suggests that the Church spends money on the construction of Temples, and what the city administration spends money on. It’s not that the city has two pools in the city. The church is to blame, although it’s exactly your position that is strange.
      There will be a bunch of posts, people will read what has been said, but they will not talk about culture. There was another reason to "expose" the Church.
      1. soldat1945
        soldat1945 28 October 2013 11: 50 New
        +3
        It's about the church and not about the administration, because if you shout about raising the spirit, then make an effort to do this, I have served in the North Caucasus for a long time, and so there the ministers of support for sports help to enter more or less prestigious educational institutions, and as a result, a young man becomes an ardent supporter of Islam and then it’s interpreted into his head that what is happening in the world and he doesn’t listen to the administration, but when you go to church, these pseudo nuns get a maximum of money from candles and ending with the order for the funeral services of health resorts, etc. ., and even talk to you as if you borrowed money from them and don’t give it back for a year, and even if in the military units the priests were brought in by the way with a salary like that of a brigade commander and with incomprehensible functions, then it turns out they go in conjunction with the state and I think must also answer questions of youth spirit development, etc.
    2. ele1285
      ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 10 New
      0
      Quote: soldat1945
      He says that it’s just right not for him to talk about it. Two new churches were built in Vladimir in me, but there are more than 70 of them in the city, and 5-10 grandmothers go there, with the exception of those where tourists are taken, but for that reason the almost 400 thousandth city only two pools, I would love to listen to this comrade if he would take and give the city or a sports hall or a pool, and without this, the miracle of the shepherd we all see!

      He will say that demonic entertainment, you need to think about the soul
    3. kadette150
      kadette150 28 October 2013 08: 36 New
      0
      Oh, come on pour that. In Murom, we have as many as 3 pools, and in the regional center 2? Tell tales to children in kindergarten.
      1. soldat1945
        soldat1945 28 October 2013 11: 37 New
        +4
        I don’t know how it is with you in Murom, but in Vladimir where you can come and sign up for swimming 2, one on Mira Street, the second SKA near Pedagogical University, and as if everything, if you have already transferred to school, I am very happy for you!
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 28 October 2013 07: 20 New
    +7
    As some often write here: you need to start with yourself. Let the patriarch set an example.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 39 New
      +4
      Quote: vladsolo56
      . Let the patriarch set an example.

      And what does he need to do? Walk, cut off electricity or something.
      1. Imperial
        Imperial 28 October 2013 07: 47 New
        11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And what does he need to do? Walk, cut off electricity or something.

        When you enjoy many dishes, remember me, dry chewing bread; or when you drink a sweet drink, remember me, drinking warm water in a place sheltered from the wind; when you lie on a soft bed under sable blankets, remember me, under one scarf lying, and from a cold numb, and raindrops, like arrows, to my heart. (c) Daniil Zatochnik.
        1. Combitor
          Combitor 28 October 2013 09: 43 New
          0
          <Imperial Today, 07:47 ↑>, Romanov, apparently, works as a novice with Kirill, since he complains about other commentators and zealously defends Gundyaev.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 51 New
            0
            Quote: Kombitor
            moonlighting as a novice with Cyril

            Unfortunately I do not work.
            Quote: Kombitor
            complains about other commentators

            This is for whom?
      2. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 28 October 2013 07: 55 New
        +7
        A true believer Sergius of Radonezh for the sake of faith renounced all worldly goods
        1. Imperial
          Imperial 28 October 2013 08: 02 New
          +6
          It is not necessary to refuse; the main thing is to share the benefits of helping the have-nots and the sick, to heal not only wounds but also souls, that’s the whole business of God, more and more from the church.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Imperial
            , the main thing is to share the blessings of helping those who are not wealthy and sick, to heal not only wounds but also souls, that’s the whole business of God, more and more from the church.

            Does the Church not help?
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 October 2013 09: 55 New
            0
            Quote: Imperial
            the main thing is to share

            how to share, give to those who have taken
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
      3. ele1285
        ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 15 New
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: vladsolo56
        . Let the patriarch set an example.

        And what does he need to do? Walk, cut off electricity or something.

        Something else. For example, to book children's homes. And you can still nursing homes. Many good deeds can be done in our country.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 44 New
          +6
          Quote: ele1285
          Many good deeds can be done in our country.

          Yes, the Church is doing quite a lot, but it cannot replace with itself what officials are obliged to do.
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 28 October 2013 08: 49 New
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Yes, the Church is doing quite a lot, but it cannot replace with itself what officials are obliged to do.


            That's right, according to the Constitution, the church is separated from the state.
            Good afternoon, Alexander. hi
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 57 New
              +5
              Quote: Apollon

              That's right, according to the Constitution, the church is separated from the state.

              Despite this, the Church is still trying to help. But this is not interesting to many. It is much more interesting to post a photo with the Patriarch’s clock.
              Hi Apollo
      4. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 October 2013 09: 50 New
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And what does he need to do? Walk, cut off electricity or something.

        behave more modestly
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: alexandr00070
          behave more modestly

          Oh, and I'm sitting and thinking when he will appear. The topic of the Church, how can this be missed yes wink
      5. Hon
        Hon 28 October 2013 12: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And what does he need to do? Walk, cut off electricity or something.

        When a person wearing tsatskis for $ 30, riding a pulman, and having an apartment of 150 meters, speaks of the rejection of earthly goods, it sounds as if Mavrodi said that throwing is not good.
    2. demeen1
      demeen1 28 October 2013 08: 25 New
      +6
      And the patriarch, and here, rightly say, you need to start with yourself and not wait until someone shows an example.
  • tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 28 October 2013 07: 21 New
    10
    In general, I agree with the patriarch, although steep priests are found in the churches, so to speak, not without sin. In September, the patriarch urged, when modernizing the country, to be equal to Peter I and Alexander Nevsky. Well, everything is clear with Alexander Nevsky, but Peter 1 !? Yes, Peter 1 did a lot of important and necessary things, but what he took from abroad, namely foreign dresses, etc., here I am a vigilant writer. I want to remind you that Peter 1 introduced the Julian calendar. How many glorious stories have been stolen from us, how many have been cut, or rather, cut off to our memory! Lost many thousands of years. I say right away ethnic strife or something like that I’m not going to arrange, but I expressed my opinions as best I could.
    1. atalef
      atalef 28 October 2013 07: 32 New
      +5
      In general, I agree with the patriarch, although steep priests are found in the churches, so to speak, not without sin. In September, the patriarch urged, when modernizing the country, to follow Peter I and Alexander Nevsky

      Well, I don’t know how Alexander Nevsky modernized the country, history is silent about this, but Peter began the modernization by cutting his beards, confiscating church property and sharply restricting the influence of the church, and of course he re-melted the bells into cannons. A wonderful proposal from the patriarch, by the way, about the benefits of civilization and depravity, you have to be more modest, you don’t have to go far, dial - the patriarch’s car, yacht, plane and watch.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 39 New
        +5
        Well, in comparison with the accumulated wealth of Jewish believers, I THINK OUR CHURCH as a small purse in the pocket of a child.
        1. atalef
          atalef 28 October 2013 07: 59 New
          0
          Quote: The same Lech
          Well, in comparison with the accumulated wealth of Jewish believers, I THINK OUR CHURCH as a small purse in the pocket of a child.

          believers and patriarchs are different personalities, by the way, there are no patriarchs in Judaism and the position of chief rabbi, not only is the elective one, there is also a time frame for cadences, and they certainly can not be compared with any influence, property, or income of the patriarch , in general, the chief rabbi is an ordinary civil servant with an established salary at the deputy level. Minister.
          Well, and what believers have - so God - God, Caesar - Caesarean
          By the way, our rabbis, obscurantists are still the same and unfortunately do not call for modernization, probably we also need something like Medvedev, this is his chip
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 07: 56 New
        +9
        Quote: atalef
        somehow it should be more modest, no need to go far, dial - the patriarch’s car, a yacht, an airplane and a clock.

        Hi San. Well, you would have walked by and said nothing, because if you knew about the peisy people by hearsay, you understand what I mean. This is where the offspring of parasites are.
        As for the clock, and you know, if I had a good watch, I would also give it to him.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 28 October 2013 08: 02 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          , I would also give him.
          Hi Sasha contact. Even delivery is.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Alex 241
            Hi Sasha contact. Even delivery is.

            Good San! Yes, I don’t have money for such a watch request
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 28 October 2013 08: 24 New
              +1
              Sasha do not worry about it.http: //premier-watches.ru/
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 29 New
                +2
                Quote: Alex 241
                .http: //premier-watches.ru/

                Yes, it’s not very convenient to give a Chinese fake winked
        2. atalef
          atalef 28 October 2013 12: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: atalef
          somehow it should be more modest, no need to go far, dial - the patriarch’s car, a yacht, an airplane and a clock.

          Hi San. Well, you would have walked by and said nothing, because if you knew about the peisy people by hearsay, you understand what I mean. This is where the offspring of parasites are.
          As for the clock, and you know, if I had a good watch, I would also give it to him.

          Sasha, hello, good day !!!
          As for the peisats, I agree with you, but the whole trick is that it is for the peaks that the chief rabbi is absolutely no authority. They (orthodoxes) have their own rabbis, these are truly wealthy people who transfer power almost by inheritance and are interested in only one thing, in preserving their stock, by the method of different taboos and keeping them in yeshiva, which means on the border of specific poverty, in Judaism under there are 2 main currents (ashkenazy, sephardic) there are so-called “hatserot” houses inside them, where there are rulers of their own, there are about 15 such movements and, of course, adherents of one hatser in no way subordinate to other rabbis, but how they don’t perceive them at all, therefore it’s absolutely wrong to talk about the main rabbis (they are two, the Sephardic and Ashkenazi) as having some kind of figure, I would say that they have more influence on unbelievers than on orthodox, if only for the reason that we can see them on TV (orthodox TVs do not have the type of not to see sinful) Therefore, the influence of one on the other is too exaggerated by those who do not know realities, Further, the heads of the Hazerot, very rich people, collecting tribute from their poor beggars (in this we are no different from others) and having all the blessings within the framework of their way of life., while urging their flock to live in modesty and not give in to worldly things temptations. Doesn’t resemble anything?
          What I want to say, without imploring your desire to give the watch to patriarch, I have two questions
          1. Why do you need it?
          2. If I were a patriarch, I probably would not have accepted it, modesty, one of the main virtues in any religion, and church hierarchs should set an example in this, believe me, a watch for 3000 tons of rubles shows the same time as a watch for 100 tons euros, so the possession of such a watch cannot be explained by anything other than vanity, and this is already one of the deadly sins, I’m not talking about cars, because the presence of an expensive car can somehow be explained by the fact that it is safer in case of an accident, and care about the preservation of life does not apply to sins, but a clock, yacht, apartment of 1000 square meters, cannot be explained with anything other than vanity.
          And I am against this, and it doesn’t matter, in Judaism, Islam, Christianity or any other religion, the priesthood should be educated by personal example, and not envy and worship of the golden calf
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 12: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            1. Why do you need it?

            Do not look for a motive, just take it and give it. It’s like something in Russian.
            Quote: atalef
            2. If I were a patriarch, I probably would not have accepted it, modesty

            I don’t know who gave it and why. There are times when you cannot refuse from modesty or because of it.
            1. atalef
              atalef 28 October 2013 12: 40 New
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: atalef
              1. Why do you need it?

              Do not look for a motive, just take it and give it. It’s like something in Russian.
              Quote: atalef
              2. If I were a patriarch, I probably would not have accepted it, modesty

              I don’t know who gave it and why. There are times when you cannot refuse from modesty or because of it.

              Sanya, I’m certainly not a patriarch, give me something, but I will not refuse from modesty.
              This, of course, does not apply to the patriarch, but remember Alchen (12 chairs), he was also a very modest and shy person
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 28 October 2013 16: 12 New
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            And I am against this, and it doesn’t matter, in Judaism, Islam, Christianity or any other religion, the priesthood should be educated by personal example, and not envy and worship of the golden calf

            Sincere plus to you. hi
      3. nik6006
        28 October 2013 14: 20 New
        +1
        Well, you would, dear atalef (3), skip past here, it's not yours, after all.
        No matter what our patriarch is, he is ours, he is respected by believers, he does a lot, and we don’t know everything about him, and we also know how much they say to him and to our church.
        The task of the church is to heal the souls and it copes with this, well, at least it fights for them, and does much more than other ministries.
        I was in a temple in the city of Yelan in the Volgograd region, it is very poor there, everything is so old, but what is the strong Russian spirit and Orthodox faith there. Or here's another - the ancient Holy Trinity Church in the village of Platnirovskaya in the Korenovsky district of the Krasnodar Territory, here is the Cossack spirit and power of the priest! And how many parishes are being built and restored? And who helps them ??? Only private donations, the state is then separated from the church. Well, someone here who is outraged, went down by himself, helped build something?

        So, go to churches somewhere in the Russian outback, then you yourself will understand.
        1. atalef
          atalef 28 October 2013 15: 38 New
          0
          Well, you would, dear atalef (3), skip past here, it's not yours, after all.

          Well, everything is on the principles of parity, although I will tell you honestly, I have the highest respect for the Christian faith and I think in the Church of the Sepulcher, as in all the churches of Jerusalem and the holy places of Israel in general, there were more than all those on this site put together

          No matter what our patriarch is, he is ours, he is respected by believers, he does a lot, and we don’t know everything about him, and we also know how much they say to him and to our church.

          Just don’t tell me that I’m trying to compromise someone or at the expense of him to exalt another, read carefully my comments in the subject,
          one must be more modest, the only thing I urge, both ours and yours and theirs
          I was in a temple in the city of Yelan in the Volgograd region, it is very poor there, everything is so old, but what is the strong Russian spirit and Orthodox faith there. Or here's another - the ancient Holy Trinity Church in the village of Platnirovskaya in the Korenovsky district of the Krasnodar Territory, here is the Cossack spirit and power of the priest! And how many parishes are being built and restored? And who helps them ??? Only private donations, the state is then separated from the church. Well, someone here who is outraged, went down by himself, helped build something?

          That's about the fact that people believe, people want to believe, why don’t give a watch to someone the patriarch (it’s a stone in your garden Sanya) and don’t restore the church to these grandmothers, and the patriarch, so that you don’t offend a person from modesty, can give a present accept and hand it over, with the money received, restore another one?
          So, go to churches somewhere in the Russian outback, then you yourself will understand

          I was in so many churches, in so many countries, that the only thing I can wish for you and your whole family is to visit 50% of the places where I was hi .
          1. nik6006
            28 October 2013 18: 09 New
            -2
            It seems that you have agreed with me in almost everything, but anyway - how can you not argue, do not teach? I am surprised to you.

            It may be a question, you probably received higher education in the USSR? Where if not a secret?

            Well, to the question of watches. Well, a man did a good deed for you, helped there with something, well, I don’t know, comforted him, or simply stayed with you at the right moment, listened at least. Will you feel gratitude to this person? To him, a simple natural sense of appreciation? Would you like to make a personal gift? Why not. Here everyone understands this as much as he can, how he knows how, and as much as he can. I myself know one case, for a priest, one of his acquaintances, a businessman, presented a car, a BMW. This father built this, and still builds, probably 15 for years, a temple in Volgograd, it was very difficult for him, only with donations from parishioners. The temple is almost ready, the domes have been sparkling for 4 years already. So then everyone around him squinted, ordinary citizens who simply lived nearby, but the priest tells about it in a foreign car. But the parishioners sighed, here he received, father, relief in their work. Everyone knows how difficult it is to build, you have to wander around the city, agree there, there are workers, there are materials, here are parishioners, then you also need to get to the authorities, you also need to organize the service, the economy. He told how he reported to the tax for income from parishioners, laughter and sin. Yes, he still paid taxes! And you say hours. Of course, there are all kinds of priests. As there are all kinds of people, because the clergy, they are also people. There are those who are seduced by something. But to judge them is not for us, and it is not necessary. And where this happens, the church takes action, and this is known.
            In the article, it is said that the fight against corruption and crime is very important, that one must raise the spirit, one must believe. That is the point. It's right. And here they started a debate whether the church is good or not. It is important that she raises these questions, inspires the importance of these issues, and to us - the laity, and the authorities, too, by the way. These issues are extremely important to all citizens, for all Russians, Orthodox and not so much, believers and atheists, but to the opponents of our state and our Motherland, this is across the soul. After all, the fight against corruption and crime, drug addiction and other vices, this is a war already, the war is inaudible so far, but the war is for our long-suffering Russia. And alas, in this war, we are still far from victory. So the church, these are the soldiers of Christ in the struggle for a healthy Russia. I think so.
            1. atalef
              atalef 28 October 2013 19: 14 New
              +1
              I myself know one case, for a priest, one of his acquaintances, a businessman, presented a car, a BMW. B

              it is very difficult to determine the line that separates vanity and hoarding, from the minimum that should allow a clergyman (and he is the same person) to live with dignity (to which he has the same right) And everyone seems to have to establish this border himself, of course It’s not good for the patriarch to walk in the rags and cast-offs and watches of Luch 1980, but we don’t need to exaggerate, we all perfectly understand where reasonable sufficiency is, and where luxury and vanity are. Therefore, the conversation goes in the direction of demagogy, when you start to prove that BMW is not a luxury, but a minimum. In general, poverty is different, for some cabbage soup is liquid, for some small pearls,
              The clergy should first of all think about this, because its role is not to declare the existence of faith as such, but to educate people in what is good, but only a well-fed hungry person will not understand (old Russian proverb, between others)
              in Kiev, the wife’s parents live near the Kiev Pechora Lavra, it was interesting to watch a string of SUVs of different populations of 20 - 30 summer ones, with jeans and boots on the 2000-3000 Baku sticking out from under the cassock, with muzzles that did not know a post or humility and were harder to handle not raised.
              We all know the boundaries where modesty ends and hoarding begins, it would be nice if they knew what we know (again I want to say - this applies to all religions)
              1. nik6006
                28 October 2013 20: 04 New
                -1
                Quote: atalef
                The clergy should first of all think about this, because its role is not to declare the existence of faith as such, but to educate people in what is good, but only a well-fed hungry person will not understand (old Russian proverb, between others)


                I agree with you.

                Of course these are:
                Quote: atalef
                in Kiev, the wife’s parents live near the Kiev Pechora Lavra, it was interesting to watch a string of SUVs of different populations of 20 - 30 summer ones, with jeans and boots on the 2000-3000 Baku sticking out from under the cassock, with muzzles that did not know a post or humility and were harder to handle not raised.

                and we have, somewhere in Moscow, probably. By the way, I was also in Kiev 4 years ago and drew attention to such a picture as you described, SUVs and very well-fed faces. Well, these are their problems, I would not like to blame anyone.

                Well, I want to say one more thing about this:
                Quote: atalef
                We all know the boundaries where modesty ends and hoarding begins, it would be nice if they knew what we know (again I want to say - this applies to all religions)


                and in fact not only the church influences and educates society, but also vice versa, "as is the parish, so is the priest" - I will try to change the proverb. Society sees what is happening in the Russian Orthodox Church. And after all we are all people, we are the church. There are stories with young priests and their cars, when people died and other accidents happened, did not members of our society shield them? After all, people may have wanted the best, so as not to cast a shadow on the church, but it turned out as always. I believe that the law should be the same for everyone, both for ordinary citizens and for representatives of the authorities and for clergy, it is exactly the same - not more severe, but not more tolerant. Well, the law is the law, and there is also the unwritten law, how to determine the very line "where is reasonable sufficiency, and where is luxury and vanity." Everyone decides this for himself. Not everyone finds a rational balance, but I think there are more of them in the ROC than among ordinary laity. I will believe it.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 29 October 2013 22: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: nik6006
                  but vice versa, "what is the parish, so is the priest" - I will try to rewrite the proverb.
                  then why do we need it if it acts solely on the delight of the crowd? In general, the crowd is a degradation, the unorganized never evolved into something higher (without leadership or higher power), I generally do not believe in evolution, especially at the cell level - multicellular - and beyond.

                  Quote: nik6006
                  . There are stories with young priests and their cars, when people died and other accidents happened, weren't members of our society blocking them?

                  In general, this is Stockholm cider. when the hostages begins to support the kidnappers.
                  There is some analogy


                  Quote: nik6006
                  I believe that the law should be the same for everyone, and for ordinary citizens and for representatives of power and for clergy

                  of course
                  Quote: nik6006
                  but there’s also an unwritten law

                  That's what the church is for. in order to show morality and teach to see the line where the written law has not yet ended, but responsibility for the unwritten already comes. But for now, alas,

                  Quote: nik6006
                  I will believe in it.

                  Hope dies last
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 28 October 2013 16: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: nik6006
          So, go to churches somewhere in the Russian outback, then you yourself will understand.

          Unfortunately, only in the outback the normal Fathers remained.
    2. Tyumen
      Tyumen 28 October 2013 07: 56 New
      -2
      A vigilant writer.
      What did you want to say? Somehow slurred. What thousands of years
      what discord?
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 October 2013 10: 01 New
        +6
        Quote: Tyumen
        Somehow slurred. What thousands of years
        what discord?

        Peter 1 returned from the “German lands” in 1699.

        Immediately after arrival, it changes the Russian calendar to Julian. Summer 7208 from S.M.Z.Kh. becomes 1700 year from R.Kh. Thus, the millennia-old history of the Russian people disappeared, and conditions appeared for the fabrication of history, which the great Russian historiographers Bayer, Miller, and Shletser rewrote. After several generations, few people remembered what happened before Peter

        such thousands now would be 7522
        1. Tyumen
          Tyumen 28 October 2013 10: 47 New
          -1
          I think the planet should live according to one chronology. And then we have one thing, the Buddhists have another,
          the Chinese have the third ... And our story is in the German-German interpretation, so here I agree, Lomonosov
          they weren’t yet.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 October 2013 10: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Tyumen
            And our story is in the German-German interpretation, so here I agree, Lomonosov
            they weren’t yet.

            Beginning in 1700, the Russian calendar was replaced by the Julian one and ancient books were destroyed (on the orders of Peter, old books were taken from all the monasteries for “making copies”, after which no one else saw these books, nor did their copies). Those. all references to the real history of Russia were destroyed, conditions for the fabrication of history appeared.

            In 1724, by order of Peter 1, the St. Petersburg Academy of Sciences was founded, to which German professors were invited. Russian scientists, led by Lomonosov, fought for the right to have Russian history, and they were opposed by the Germans, led by Miller, with the undisguised support of the Romanov court.

            In 1749, Lomonosov opposed the new version of Russian history created by Miller and Bayer. He criticized Miller’s dissertation on the origin of the name and people of Russia. Since that time, studies on historical issues have become a necessity for Lomonosov, for the sake of them he even abandons the duties of a chemistry professor. In correspondence with Shuvalov, Lomonosov mentioned several of his works:
            * "On the state of Russia during the reign of Tsar Tsar Mikhail Fedorovich";
            * "Notes on the works of the monarch";
            * "An abridged description of the affairs of the sovereign" (Peter 1);
            * "Description of impostors and streltsy riots."

            But all the works and numerous documents that Lomonosov intended to publish in the form of notes, manuscripts and preparatory materials were confiscated and disappeared without a trace. Several works were still published, but after 7 years! after the death of Lomonosov and edited by Miller. Computer analysis showed that this was a fake - there was little left of Lomonosov in them. The same with the works of the Russian historian Tatishchev. The works were published after his death, edited by Miller. For some drafts of Tatishchev, the originals of which mysteriously disappeared.
        2. atalef
          atalef 28 October 2013 12: 43 New
          0
          such thousands now would be 7522

          Take an interest in whose calendar it was, in which year it was received in Russia - just don’t have to sculpt about the creation of the world in a star temple, this calendar has a clear name, who it was adopted when it came to Russia, which prince accepted it and why
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 October 2013 10: 54 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            Take an interest in whose calendar it was, in which year it was received in Russia - just don’t have to sculpt about the creation of the world in a star temple, this calendar has a clear name, who it was adopted when it came to Russia, which prince accepted it and why

            Hanuman (Asur, that is, Prince of Russion), who ruled in Belovodye and Ahriman (ruler of Arimia, that is, ancient China) “Created the World”, i.e. concluded a peace treaty between the Great Race and the Great Dragon, according to which the defeated Arims built a wall (loopholes in their direction!) to mark the border of Rassenia. The wall was named Kiy-Tai, which in Old Slovenian means Kiy - fence, hedge; Tai - the completion of the summit, the great, that is, "the final, limiting the great hedge (wall)." Those. In ancient times, “China” was called a high fence or a fortress wall. For example: Kitay-Gorod in Moscow is so named because of the high wall that surrounded it, and not because of the Chinese.
            . Why are the loopholes of the Great Wall of China in their direction?
            The answer to the second question can be given if we assume that the whole history of China is false, and they could build loopholes inside China only under duress. That is, not the Chinese were defending themselves against the attacks of the nomads, but quite the contrary, it was the Great Wall that protected them from their attacks. Of course, we are talking only about some part of the wall, and then it was completed as it should have been the first rulers of China, from which they began the reckoning (about 100 years BC).
            The Russian calendar is based on a hexadecimal number system:
            16 hours a day, 9 days a week, 9 months, 3 seasons of the Summer (year) - Autumn, Winter, Spring. Our ancestors used this calendar until 1700, until Peter I replaced it with Julian. “New Year” was postponed to January 1, earlier the New Year began on the day of the autumn equinox. Historical events began to be counted from R.Kh., having robbed the millennial history of the Russian people. In Russia in 1700 it was 7208 Summer from S.M.Z.Kh.

            S.M.Z.Kh. (Creation of the World in the Star Temple) - the signing of a peace treaty, after the victory of the Rasichs over the empire of the Great Dragon (Ancient China). This victory was immortalized in the ancient Temples, depicted in frescoes and Images - a horseman striking with a spear of the Dragon. Now this story has been renamed - George the Victorious. Although St. George was born 5000 years later, in the XNUMXrd century AD and the feat is attributed to him after death.
    3. ele1285
      ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 17 New
      -3
      Patriarch Kirill had in mind the construction of St. Petersburg. Take several tens of thousands of people to the construction site, and let them bend there
  • ivshubarin
    ivshubarin 28 October 2013 07: 28 New
    -9
    Alexander Nevsky caved in under the Mongols, Peter introduced a lot of European, we do not need such modernization. And under Peter the church was not sweet
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 32 New
      0
      The church cannot exist separately from the state; this is nonsense.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 28 October 2013 07: 34 New
        -2
        Before Peter existed
        1. ivshubarin
          ivshubarin 28 October 2013 11: 20 New
          0
          Before Peter the Great, the church was not subject to kings.
          1. atalef
            atalef 28 October 2013 12: 48 New
            -1
            Quote: ivshubarin
            Before Peter the Great, the church was not subject to kings.

            Yes, can you please, the grounds for such a statement, in general, to reform the church and take away its privileges began long before Peter
          2. Orik
            Orik 28 October 2013 13: 49 New
            0
            There was a symphony of authorities, it is easier to say equality, but not separately from the state. The state was conceived as a fence of the church.
            St. Joseph Volotsky
            The sovereign, like all people, is subject to earthly weaknesses and may be prone to sinful acts. The priesthood helps to prevent them. If the sovereign persists in his vices, then he is no longer "God's servant, but the devil." In this case, according to the traditions of Byzantium, such a sovereign can be denied obedience, but it is necessary to change not the form of government, but the autocrat. In this way, the power of the Orthodox sovereign in Joseph Volotsky is fundamentally different from Western absolutism, which denies the head of state the right to be the "conscience" of the country and compresses it into the tight framework of its own "spiritual needs", which absolutism itself determines and decides how to serve them.
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 28 October 2013 07: 36 New
        +4
        I don’t know the brothers, I don’t know the church, not far from the village of my grandfathers and grandmothers, heaven befallen them, in the times of the USSR there was a fire brigade, and how it was restored.
        1. atomic
          atomic 28 October 2013 08: 00 New
          -5
          Yes, it would be better if the fire brigade was there, the village lights up (pah, pah of course), who will put out it, father?
          1. demeen1
            demeen1 28 October 2013 08: 34 New
            +4
            Isn't it better to build a new fire station? And let the church serve for what great-grandfathers and grandfathers built it.
            1. atomic
              atomic 28 October 2013 12: 31 New
              0
              It is also an option.
    2. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 28 October 2013 07: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: ivshubarin
      Alexander Nevsky caved in under the Mongols, Peter introduced a lot of European, we do not need such modernization. And under Peter the church was not sweet

      On the Internet, there is an opinion that there was no Mongol yoke, here is another: http://www.knlife.ru/antient-culture/slaviane/tataro-mongolskoe-igo-gnet-ili-osv
      obozhdenie.html
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 28 October 2013 07: 39 New
        0
        There are many opinions, but both of these rulers were impressed by the overseas. And now there is a hotbed of sin
    3. Tyumen
      Tyumen 28 October 2013 08: 01 New
      0
      The merit of Nevsky in the defeat of the Teutons, as the first crusade against the Slavs. The Mongols are temporary.
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 28 October 2013 08: 12 New
        -2
        To drag the Mongols to Russia for three hundred years - is this temporary?
        1. Tyumen
          Tyumen 28 October 2013 08: 45 New
          +1
          The Mongols, unlike the knights, did not want to destroy Slavism as an ethnic group.
          1. Orik
            Orik 28 October 2013 11: 51 New
            +3
            I read and cry ... St. Alexander Nevsky is glorified in the face of the saints for the difficult and right choice between the enslavement of our Orthodox faith by Catholics and external dependence, but the preservation of the most valuable Orthodox faith. For example, Daniil Galitsky chose a different path, changed Orthodoxy to please the pope, and we see the results in the form of zapadentsev.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 36 New
          +1
          Quote: ivshubarin
          Drag Mongols to Russia for three hundred years

          Yes, actually they themselves came. With such posts we will soon get to the point that they will begin to write that Stalin brought Hitler to Moscow.
          1. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 28 October 2013 09: 56 New
            -2
            They came themselves, but Nevsky used friendship with them in the struggle for power
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 17 New
              0
              Quote: ivshubarin
              but Nevsky used friendship with them in the struggle for power

              Well, another version of the story. Who is the author?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 52 New
                0
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                .Who is the author?

                Okay, put a minus to me for daring to ask who the author of the new story is laughing
              2. ivshubarin
                ivshubarin 28 October 2013 11: 18 New
                -1
                Often he went to Horde to bow
          2. ivshubarin
            ivshubarin 28 October 2013 11: 11 New
            0
            It was Stalin who restored the patriarchate in Russia-the USSR in 1943 and did not let the Russian Orthodox Church finish, and the church reproaches him in gratitude
            1. Orik
              Orik 28 October 2013 11: 56 New
              +2
              The church sang "eternal memory" to the only Soviet leader, Stalin.
              Prayer, full of Christian love, comes to God. We believe that our prayer for the dead will be heard by the Lord. And to our beloved and unforgettable Joseph Vissarionovich, we prayerfully, with deep, warm love, we proclaim eternal memory.

              http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/?act=monitor&id=7860
        3. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 October 2013 10: 06 New
          -2
          Quote: ivshubarin
          To drag the Mongols to Russia for three hundred years - is this temporary?

          Petersburgers came here to Moscow, do you think this is temporary, but for more than 10 years we have been going unclear what course, this is also a certain yoke
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 28 October 2013 07: 50 New
      +3
      There is a very good film about this topic "ISLAND" (with Mamonov in the title role there is just a wonderful scene about the new boots of the priest - I recommend watching)
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 28 October 2013 08: 33 New
        +6
        All sinners, live as you live, only don’t do a great sin
    2. Alex 241
      Alex 241 28 October 2013 08: 00 New
      +5
      Quote: atomic
      Yes, something on his face is not visible that he at least fasts
      It doesn’t color you anyway!
  • makarov
    makarov 28 October 2013 08: 01 New
    0
    "... when electricity is cut off in this or that city today, people often fall into hysterics, perceive it as a disaster," RIA Novosti reports.
    "There are known cases of suicide only because electricity was cut off in large metropolitan areas," said the primate of the Russian Church ... "

    It’s hard for me to understand ...... When (this happens), the electricity disappears from the network, then I pull the gas generator out of the shed and start it. Here is the solution to the problem. Optical fiber - comes right into my house, telephones and landlines, and each has different mobile operators (just in case). I don’t see vulnerability from benefits ..
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: makarov
      I don’t see vulnerability from benefits ..

      When some clown cuts your fiber, then you’ll catch me. I live in a five-story building and if the lights are cut down, everything is cut down. Digital, cable, refrigerator, computer. It works with radio and cellular, while there is charging. There are no generators here. In the village it’s easier to survive than in the city. And the fact that we are addicted is a fact. Yes, and try to get diesel fuel at a gas station on diesel, when the light is cut down wink
  • The comment was deleted.
  • awg75
    awg75 28 October 2013 08: 14 New
    +5
    "Patriarch Kirill: Corruption with the blessings of civilization makes it difficult to defeat corruption" - said the man of God ...

    Patriarch Kirill arrived in Kiev on an armored train
    Master230
    0 - 27.07.2013/13/08 - XNUMX:XNUMX
    Special letter train - armored. “It's like a hotel on wheels. That was Stalin's. There are five cars, the last one is a temple car. Protection at the Patriarch, as at Vladimir Putin. A special timetable will be developed for the train, and it will go on a dedicated track ”
    - The arrival of Cyril on an armored train with a huge amount of guards with a sweep of the surrounding areas resembles the arrival of Reich Commissioner Erich Koch.
    “It seems that they are moving through the occupied territories, where the partisans are about to jump out”









    Master230
    41 - 27.07.2013/14/12 - XNUMX:XNUMX
    in 2002, Metropolitan Kirill bought a penthouse in the “House on the Embankment” overlooking the Cathedral of Christ the Savior. Incidentally, this is "the only apartment in Moscow registered specifically for the metropolitan by his worldly name Gundyaev, about which there is a corresponding entry in the cadastral register."
    Another attribute of this life that has become the subject of wide discussion is the Breguet watch, which cost about 30 thousand euros, which Ukrainian journalists photographed on the left hand of the patriarch next to the monastic rosary. This happened the day after Cyril pompously broadcast live on the main Ukrainian television channels: “It is very important to learn Christian austerity ... Asceticism is the ability to regulate your consumption ... This is a person’s victory over lust, over passions, over instinct. And it is important that both rich and poor have this quality. ”
    The talk of the town was the luxurious motorcade of Patriarch Kirill, and the security services from the FSO, which he uses. In Moscow, when the patriarch is traveling, all the streets are blocked along the route, which, of course, causes widespread indignation of car owners. In Ukraine, the half-kilometer motorcade of Cyril completely shocked local residents: in a neighboring country, even the president travels much more modestly.
    True, we must pay tribute to Cyril: for official visits, he chartered Transaero planes, and uses his personal air fleet only for personal purposes.
    A separate and almost inexhaustible topic is the palaces and residences of the patriarch. Kirill seeks to keep up with the top officials of the state in this matter. His permanent residence was a newly built palace in Peredelkino, for the sake of which several houses of local residents were demolished. From the windows of electric trains in the Kiev direction, it looks like a large Russian tower - like the Terem Palace in the Kremlin. Cyril does not like living there: he is worried about the nearby railway. Therefore, the current patriarch ordered to redecorate the palace in the Danilov Monastery, which did not look poor before. The construction of the Patriarchal Palace in Gelendzhik, in Praskoveyevka, was not without scandals. the patriarch's palace aroused the indignation of local ecologists in the first place: it was built on the territory of the reserve, during construction many trees listed in the Red Book were cut down, and the territory of the palace blocked access to the sea for local residents. There are also patriarchal residences in all more or less large monasteries in Russia "

    It is a shame to see how priests buy palaces for themselves, drive luxury cars - and at the same time, without a twinge of conscience, take money "for a temple" from disadvantaged old people.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: awg75
      It seems that they are moving through the occupied territories, where the partisans are about to jump out. ”

      And what is not occupied
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 28 October 2013 08: 51 New
        +2
        smile Hitler was dragged in a coffin - they just want to resurrect.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Hitler was dragged in a coffin - they just want to resurrect.

          They dug up what was left of the SS Galicia division and bury it with honors.
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 28 October 2013 09: 22 New
            +2
            Mdaa - the SS movement appeared again in UKRAINE.
            If things go this way soon, the Ukrainian army will begin to restore the same divisions of the Ukrainian SS.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: The same LYOKHA
              Mdaa - the SS movement appeared again in UKRAINE.

              Has long been
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 28 October 2013 09: 43 New
                +4
                in s. Gologora Zolochevsky district of Lviv region held a ceremony to rebury the remains of 16 soldiers of the division "Galicia".
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 54 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  in s. Gologora Zolochevsky district of Lviv region held a ceremony to rebury the remains of 16 soldiers of the division "Galicia".

                  Minesweeper, here is the "Church" of the schismatic Filaret, you can look. I think it will become clear who Filaret is.
                  1. Orik
                    Orik 28 October 2013 11: 58 New
                    +1
                    Rather, it is the Uniates who walk under dad.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 12: 29 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Orik
                      Rather, it is the Uniates who walk under dad.

                      They also wanted to be a father, but did not accept and did not recognize. Then, under Yushchenko, they wanted to create their own church, but it didn’t work either.
                      1. Orik
                        Orik 28 October 2013 16: 57 New
                        +2
                        Ukrainian Orthodox Church (MP) - Our
                        Ukrainian Orthodox Church (KP) - schismatics after 1991,
                        Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church - schismatics after 1917
                        The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the result of the Union of Brest of 1596, it belongs to Catholics, but the Byzantine rituals (including the robes) were preserved.
                        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Религия_на_Украине
                2. Same lech
                  Same lech 28 October 2013 10: 22 New
                  +2
                  I won’t say anything about the dead, but the German form causes a reflex (the hand automatically reaches for a pistol or grenade)
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. atalef
                  atalef 28 October 2013 14: 21 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  in s. Gologora Zolochevsky district of Lviv region held a ceremony to rebury the remains of 16 soldiers of the division "Galicia".

                  So I would have buried everyone, along with the priest, pretzels in the Nazi form, parishioners, a prayer service (or whatever it is called there) just like that in one common grave and he would pile the coffins from above so that they would not come out
    2. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 October 2013 10: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: awg75
      It is a shame to see how priests buy palaces for themselves, drive luxury cars - and at the same time, without a twinge of conscience, take money "for a temple" from disadvantaged old people.

      that’s just shameful, not enviable, shameful and disgusting
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 08: 14 New
    +3
    There are a lot of things that people wrote in the comments, but the main words
    “We stopped walking, writing letters ... We stopped communicating with each other, often replacing this communication with virtual communication or telephone communication at best. We have stopped doing a lot. We have become very weak, ”said the patriarch.
    It seems that many did not even notice when they entered into a discussion about the role of the church in modern society as a whole, and the moral qualities of higher hierarchs in particular ....
    And what have we really become strong? Strong in the first place ?? In my opinion, no. What do you think about this ?! Maybe it's worth discussing this.
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 28 October 2013 08: 23 New
      +1
      I don’t have anything against the Russian Orthodox Church, but the examples of modernization in Peter and Nevsky are very controversial
    2. Tyumen
      Tyumen 28 October 2013 10: 58 New
      0
      To Maximus
      It is impossible to be strong spirit without ideology, and it is no more. Internet battles do not count.
      Look what language we speak, half of the words are non-Russian, and to accept the language of the enemy is already half
      accept its installation and rules.
  • Vasily Ivanov
    Vasily Ivanov 28 October 2013 08: 15 New
    +5
    first of all, as it is not sad, the Russian Orthodox Church itself (in the person of today's representatives) is corrupted by the benefits of civilization ...
    teach us how to live ...
  • atomic
    atomic 28 October 2013 08: 25 New
    -2
    Has anyone noticed this on the site, put a minus, but a bold plus appears? This is especially true for moderator comments.
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 08: 30 New
    +2
    Quote: Vasily Ivanov
    first of all, as it is not sad, the Russian Orthodox Church itself (represented by today's representatives) is spoiled by the benefits of civilization ... they teach us how to live ...

    I agree. + 1
    But here is an example from the recent past. The crisis of the communist idea did not become the USSR. What about the Roman empire? And what about modern Western civilization ?? Why is she dying out? The economy is the strongest on the planet, science too. What is the reason ? Maybe in general relaxation of spirit ?!
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 08: 31 New
    0
    Quote: atomic
    Has anyone noticed this on the site, put a minus, but a bold plus appears? This is especially true for moderator comments.

    Nope. And what often happens?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Maximus-22
      Nope. And what often happens?

      Can not be! The man just received a warning, so he began to express his dissatisfaction in a similar form.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 October 2013 08: 32 New
    +2
    Firstly, he is right (about the corruption of goods). Secondly, it is foolish to condemn, even if the church itself is not ideal, but it is right. And in the third, the example about Parsley is unsuccessful, because parsley is liberal number 1
  • makarov
    makarov 28 October 2013 08: 37 New
    +3
    to earlier stated
    PS
    FAITH, this is not a cross on gaitan (or tsepura), FAITH - it is in the SOUL, it is from the SOUL that a person commits actions that are called GREAT, and this person is called GREAT. Look around you, dear readers, are there many such people around you (?).
    P.P.S.
    I do not teach you, I say what I think.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 08: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      Look around you, dear readers, are there many such people around you (?).

      Units.
    2. Orik
      Orik 28 October 2013 12: 03 New
      +2
      A person should not look at others, but at himself. How is he doing! While a person is engaged in others, the evil one is engaged in it.
  • aleandr
    aleandr 28 October 2013 08: 44 New
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Show me the church where they sell cigarettes. There are a lot of pictures on pseudo-sites, but in reality this is not

    Show me the church where they do not sell crosses, candles, bread, etc. on the 2nd road. And even in biblical times, Jesus dispersed the merchants. I believe that any sale in the temple is prohibited. The tax on the Church was not just done.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 09 New
      -2
      Quote: aleandr
      Show me the church where they do not sell crosses, candles, bread, etc. in the 2nd road.

      Behind each candle and bread is the work of people, or you think it should not be paid.
      Quote: aleandr
      .I believe that any sale in the temple is prohibited

      Prohibit the sale, you will find otherwise.
      1. My address
        My address 28 October 2013 09: 34 New
        +1
        Alexander!
        Respect your position in matters of faith. But those who criticize the patriarch criticize him, but not the Church, as a social institution.
        I associate the Church with a friend, the intelligent and kind guy went to the monks. I myself am an unbeliever, but I believe that the beautiful communist ideals were based on Christianity. It is ideals, but not always the embodiment.
        hi
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: My address
          . And those who criticize the patriarch criticize him, but not the Church, as a public institution.

          And the Russian Orthodox Church, too, is just the basis for criticism for the most part taken from the anti-Orthodox Saites. Although there are those who write essentially, there are few of them.
          Quote: My address
          I myself am an unbeliever, but I believe that the beautiful communist ideals were based on Christianity

          And why did they have to come up with something new. They took what was centuries closer to the people.
        2. Odysseus
          Odysseus 28 October 2013 12: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: My address
          I myself am an unbeliever, but I believe that the beautiful communist ideals were based on Christianity.

          Eeee, I rarely go into questions of faith, but here let me intervene as a communist. Indeed, Marx and Lenin were sympathetic to early Christianity (but not to the church as a public institution), but it does not follow from this that communist ideals are based on Christianity.
          All the same, the basis, the basis of communism is dialectical materialism.
          As for the similarity of some communist principles with the principles of primitive Christianity, this similarity is purely external, and by the way no less, and even more similarity is observed, for example, with the ideals of Renaissance humanism or ancient Platonism.
          1. My address
            My address 28 October 2013 17: 24 New
            0
            Of course, not only Christianity was the basis. And in the attitude of Marxism to Christianity, the negation of negation works. The basic ideas of justice there and there. But in one, the achievement of justice on earth, and in the other, somewhere there, beyond the clouds. About a certain coincidence of the Moral Code of the builder of communism with the biblical commandments I heard at a lecture more than forty years ago. And Zyuganov is not right that the Code is poorly written off the Commandments. He himself ...
            As I understand it, you graduated from college to 90. From ideological disciplines I liked isppart (a fine teacher) and a logical diamat. hi
  • saag
    saag 28 October 2013 08: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: Maximus-22
    There are a lot of things that people wrote in the comments, but the main words
    “We stopped walking, writing letters ... We stopped communicating with each other, often replacing this communication with virtual communication or telephone communication at best. We have stopped doing a lot. We have become very weak, ”said the patriarch.
    It seems that many did not even notice when they entered into a discussion about the role of the church in modern society as a whole, and the moral qualities of higher hierarchs in particular ....
    And what have we really become strong? Strong in the first place ?? In my opinion, no. What do you think about this ?! Maybe it's worth discussing this.

    Talk about weaknesses, resulting in the extensive use of modern technology. or the availability of vehicles in my opinion is, in my opinion, a bit of a disguise for the lack of an idea in society, some kind of common core. Religion, in particular Orthodoxy, will not become this core at this time, it is progress that pushes it into the background, it is in this vein that the above words become. No need to think about how to unite society, so the availability of the above benefits corrupts the brain
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 28 October 2013 08: 45 New
    +3
    Of course, I understand that many people don’t like these statements, I’m a victim of technology myself))), but the patriarch is right, we’re too hung up on computers, it’s enough to read a couple of hours a day on the Internet, I used to spend this time on sports, and now he’s leaving the Internet, he’s leaving for a glass, then we cry that Caucasians kick us, who are engaged in sports from the cradle)))
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 08: 49 New
    +1
    God - God; Caesar - Caesarean
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 28 October 2013 11: 46 New
      +1
      A locksmith, locksmith.
  • ele1285
    ele1285 28 October 2013 08: 52 New
    -3
    This is my personal opinion, I think the majority will disagree. But the Patriarch has one and most important goal.
    1. Maximus-xnumx
      Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 08: 55 New
      +1
      As far as I know, they announce saints after death.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 28 October 2013 08: 58 New
        +2
        To be counted as saints, a lot of church canons must be observed.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 28 October 2013 09: 03 New
          11
          The patriotic press has already written about the feat of the 19-year-old Russian soldier Yevgeny Rodionov, who in 1996 was in Chechen captivity and at the time of the most sophisticated tortures did not betray the Fatherland and Vera, who did not take off his body cross. The state awarded Eugene with the Order of Courage. Now on his grave, thanks to donations, a two-meter cross has been erected, an icon is on, - and people come here and go. They come, specially, from the most remote corners of Russia, from other countries, to bow to "my unknown, quiet son". Mother, Lyubov Vasilievna Rodionova, says that this attitude of people "turned my whole consciousness in life ..." And once one of the veterans of the Great Patriotic War came to the grave of her son in Kurilovo (near Podolsk). He took off his front-line award - the medal "For Courage" - and put it on the gravestone. The Ascension Church keeps miraculous icons that heal from alcoholism and drug addiction.

          Many churches in the suburbs are associated with the names of great and courageous people.

          Priest Alexander Filippov, who was not afraid to make a remark to hooligans, was buried in the Ascension Church near the altar, and was killed by a shot in the heart on the threshold of his house in 2009.

          But most of all, Satino-Russian is currently known for the fact that here near the Ascension Church there is the grave of Evgeny Rodionov.

          A simple Russian guy Yevgeny Rodionov was drafted into the army in the border troops. In January 1996, he was captured during the duty at a checkpoint on the Chechen-Ingush border.

          On the proposal to remove the pectoral cross in order to save life, he refused.

          The birthday coincided with the day of execution - on May 23, 1999, Evgeny Rodionov turned 19 years old.

          He was awarded the Order of Courage and the Order of Glory of Russia posthumously.
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 28 October 2013 10: 30 New
            +2
            Quote: Alex 241
            To be counted as saints, a lot of church canons must be observed.

            OR TO endure non-human torment and remain human.
            Holy martyrs, they pray for us in heaven.
            ON GOD and THEM, the main hope of RUSSIA.
            GOD will not leave us with the prayers of all Saints in Russia who have risen.

            We are ordinary people, officials, the president, priests and the Patriarch, also people. Everyone decides to live for him.

            And from the SACRED SCRIPTURE: "They see a speck in someone else's eye, but in their own (her) ... a log is not noticed."

            See there on the mountain
            The cross rises.
            Under it are a dozen soldiers
            Hang on it
            And when you get tired
            Come back
            Walk on the water
            Walk on the water
            Walk on water with me!
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 28 October 2013 08: 57 New
    +2
    And the patriarch himself doesn’t refuse the benefits of civilization? The Russian Orthodox Church itself would have set an example. There are certainly true believers who help, but ... no matter how pop, so Mercedes, an expensive watch, a gold cross, and a belly to the knee. In churches, even candles made of the cheapest wax for 50 rubles !!! Not to mention the price lists for services hanging in a prominent place. But are you not ofigel yourself, our dear ROC?
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 28 October 2013 11: 50 New
      +1
      I will repeat Remarque. The church is the only dictatorship that has stood for centuries.
  • generation.p
    generation.p 28 October 2013 09: 24 New
    0
    He speaks correctly, but what to do is again only standard calls ..
    It should be understood that the basic commandment “Love your neighbor ...” was given to people long before the advent of Christianity, as a teaching, and is the basic law of the existence and development of the human race.
    It arose at a time when people lived in a complex, unfavorable environment, in conditions of limited - primarily human, resources - the main goal was survival, procreation. Failure to comply with the law, unbalanced relationships in the group led to its death - at best, integration into other groups with a loss of identity.
    By the way, this is true in our time.
    It is interesting to look at the question of the national idea from this point of view.
    It’s simpler further - with the increase in resources, there are opportunities to violate this law, that is, the ability to sin, even without the help of the devil.
    And, very importantly, with the increase in resources there is a need to distribute them.
    This is how we live since then, sinning, receiving retribution for sins, but not spiritually perfected.
    In the form known to us, this law was formulated 2000 years ago - let's call it Christianity.
    The relevance of this law for mankind was the basis for the high moral actions of people and for all kinds of abuses.
    Obviously, this law is laid down in a person in childhood with the love of his parents, true Christian relationships in the family and society (to put his soul in), or not “Mowgli”. Now, obviously, we live in some kind of intermediate period.
    Unfortunately, we know and see that the soul can be destroyed.
    To comply with this law, three conditions are now necessary:
    1. There is a relevant, socially significant, goal for any part of people;
    2. To achieve the goal, people unite in groups and together, consciously act;
    3. The system should not be static.
    Based on these principles, the concept of an Internet resource with the working title "System of Actual Goal Setting and Activity Communication" is built.
    2000 years ago there were no such communication technologies.
    Religions, churches, sects are needed for those people who need certain rituals for self-identification. Since this is a certain dependence, there is always the possibility of manipulating the human consciousness.
    Everything is extremely concise.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 09: 44 New
      0
      Quote: generation.p
      generation.p

      Where did you reprint it?
      1. generation.p
        generation.p 28 October 2013 09: 51 New
        0
        Out of nowhere. It goes without saying.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 24 New
          0
          Quote: generation.p
          It goes without saying.

          It’s clear, but folding this, look at Europe
          Quote: generation.p
          Religions, churches, sects are needed for those people who need certain rituals for self-identification.

          Without religion, human values ​​with centuries-old ways, destroyed in just one decade. I do not take into account sects, they are helpers of destruction.
          1. generation.p
            generation.p 28 October 2013 10: 33 New
            +1
            1. Yes, especially notably, in Switzerland, the communities there are traditionally strong.
            2. The patriarch and Orthodoxy are with us. You forgot?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 57 New
              +1
              Quote: generation.p
              2. The patriarch and Orthodoxy are with us. You forgot?

              Read komenty, not mine.
              1. generation.p
                generation.p 28 October 2013 11: 14 New
                +1
                2. I clarify that formally religion exists, human values ​​remained the same as 2000 years or more ago. Living in compliance with them is easier if I have the above conditions.
  • Mergenchi
    Mergenchi 28 October 2013 09: 40 New
    +3
    The patriarch is right about the fact that a person has become weaker. Our modern Internet youths Rex Führer would have passed without losing his breath, that's for sure.
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 28 October 2013 09: 42 New
    +2
    The patriarch was immediately accused of the fact that he should stomp on your foot between churches or ride on non-armored Lada, it’s not for you the Pope who winds circles around the Vatican in warmth.
  • Vladimir 9322
    Vladimir 9322 28 October 2013 10: 00 New
    -1
    And the billions of Gundyaev abroad? The Russian Orthodox Church itself gives a bunch of negative open to all. According to the announcement, one, and by default another. What is it? This is cynicism. Pushkin wrote about her infertility in Tsar Nikita, as well as about the Bible, "They wrote too wisely, that is, it is cold and dark, which is very shameful and sinful." The great denial of religion begins, prepared by the bogers themselves. Living a thinking person is incomparably more interesting than a believer.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir 9322
      And the billions of Gundyaev abroad?

      Oh, and on what "reliable" site did you read this? laughing Out who on what wassat
      1. Vladimir 9322
        Vladimir 9322 28 October 2013 12: 19 New
        +1
        Fully online.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsHeJwpl7c
        http://www.politklub.ru/viewtopic.php?p=18932
        The personal fortune of Patriarch Kirill Gundyaev was estimated at $ 4 billion. http://sivs.ru/viewtopic.php?id=896
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 15: 31 New
          0
          Quote: Vladimir 9322
          The personal fortune of Patriarch Kirill Gundyaev was estimated at $ 4 billion.

          And can I add a couple more zeros to the four, go crazy so completely.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • aleandr
    aleandr 28 October 2013 10: 22 New
    0
    Quote: My address
    Behind each candle and bread is the work of people, or you think it should not be paid.

    A must, but is it? At Easter, Easter cakes of 150-300 rubles. If this is normal for you, then for me there is no need. And we don’t need to say we eat it once a year, or the flesh of Christ is worth more.
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Prohibit the sale, you will find otherwise

    For myself, I have already seen and seen enough. And the manashes with a fume, and the priests at Merc, and all that.
    I developed my own belief. And I no longer go to church, with God I can talk at home.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 10: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: aleandr
      For Easter, Easter cakes of 150-300 rub.

      Most of the Easter cakes that are sold are baked in ordinary bakeries. You can buy much cheaper.
      Quote: aleandr
      And the manashes with a fume, and the priests on the Merc, and all that.

      I live in the Far East and I’m not priests on Mercedes here, all the more so with the fumes I have not seen anyone.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Egoza
    Egoza 28 October 2013 11: 20 New
    +1
    In the play "Spring Love" the old professor says in shock, looking at the revolutionary sailor "I see the flame of faith in my eyes!" Unfortunately, many priests do not have this very "flame of faith". Conversely, there are people who can and should be proud of.
    260 adopted children are called priest pope
    http://polemika.com.ua/article-129099.html#title

    Please note that this father from the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate lives and acts on the memory. There was a case, I asked people for help. They helped as they could - with money, things, toys, etc. Read about this priest, you will not regret it. To help such - in joy.
    I don’t take the Patriarch as an example, but if a young father changes his car every three years (like ours) ...
    It remains only to say "priests are people too and they are not without sin." Faith is faith, and priests are priests. Look for those with the flame of faith in their eyes. There are such! They just need to be noticed!
  • makarov
    makarov 28 October 2013 11: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    When some clown cuts your fiber, then you’ll catch me. I live in a five-story building and if the lights are cut down, everything is cut down. Digital, cable, refrigerator, computer. It works with radio and cellular, while there is charging. There are no generators here. In the village it’s easier to survive than in the city. And the fact that we are addicted is a fact. Yes, and try to get diesel fuel at a gas station on diesel, when the light is cut down

    SW Alexander. Do not make hasty conclusions. I live in a city, just in a private house. In the event of a breakdown in the Internet network, a maximum of half a day is eliminated. Small-sized gas generator, takes 400g. gasoline per hour. If desired, can be placed on the balcony. I just had to make secure, because for heating and bathing, there is a double-circuit boiler at home, and its automation is from electricity. In this case, each person forges his own happiness and convenience as he wishes. And I do not see sinfulness in this.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 28 October 2013 12: 33 New
      0
      Quote: makarov
      In the event of a breakdown in the Internet network, a maximum of half a day is eliminated.

      This is not a solution to the problem, it is a dependence on it. hi
  • Mergenchi
    Mergenchi 28 October 2013 12: 17 New
    +1
    Yes, there is no sinfulness in the generator, even it is good when a person cares so much about the benefits of his family. The problem is that young people have a saying - “life without the Internet loses its meaning” they say it as a joke, but as you know, every shiut has a grain of joke. Also, I notice with surprise that the majority of men of military age accept with horror the idea of ​​taking a small route, spending three days in a tent in the snow and all this, oh, horror - without a shower and the Internet!
  • vedmeddd
    vedmeddd 28 October 2013 12: 49 New
    +1
    He speaks correctly! Let an example show! Let the "priests" be transplanted from the Maybachs to the Volga, and let him begin to walk on foot! Maybe they will not agree with me, but I do not like ZAO "ROC"!
  • Gennady1973
    Gennady1973 28 October 2013 13: 09 New
    0
    Patriarch Kirill: Corruption by the benefits of civilization prevents the victory of corruption ... Not wanting and closing the eyes of the authorities on all theft and arbitrariness., This is what prevents ... to feed from one feeder ... no need to litter the bureaucrat-bureaucracy-death penalty !!! which of the sensational stolen billions! planted? I may have missed this news?
    1. Maximus-xnumx
      Maximus-xnumx 28 October 2013 22: 43 New
      0
      Patriarch Kirill: Depravity of the benefits of civilization prevents to defeat corruption stop This is the TITLE of the ARTICLE. About CORRUPTION there is ONLY ONE word in it. The main idea of ​​the article: “A lot in life can be easily lost if a weak spirit. Here the Church calls upon people, modern people, relaxed by the benefits of civilization, to educate their spirit, to become spiritually strong. Then we will succeed. Then we will transform our Fatherland beyond recognition ”
  • makarov
    makarov 28 October 2013 13: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    This is not a solution to the problem, it is a dependence on it.

    And I have no problems, because I live happily.
    The provider has problems. And he tries to avoid them, because I buy his goods. And I can go to another seller, we have enough of them, each of them strives to spoil the competitor.
  • makarov
    makarov 28 October 2013 13: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: Mergenchi
    The problem is that young people have a saying - “life without the Internet loses its meaning” they say it as a joke, but as you know, every shiut has a grain of joke.

    This is from a lack of life experience. We were all young and to some extent nihilists.
    With age, it passes.
  • tema2101
    tema2101 28 October 2013 15: 37 New
    +1
    God save RUSSIA MOTHER !!!
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 28 October 2013 16: 51 New
    0
    Nothing prevents the patriarch from setting a personal example of modesty and non-possessiveness.
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 28 October 2013 17: 04 New
    -1
    Corruption in the benefits of civilization prevents corruption

    Who is bothering? laughing
  • takojnikuzheest
    takojnikuzheest 29 October 2013 10: 28 New
    +1
    The number of comments on this article speaks for itself. Oh, there are a lot of questions the people have for the current church. And these are not questions of faith at all.