BMP Puma not adopted by the Bundeswehr

German Defense Minister Thomas de Maiziere (Thomas de Maiziere) told 18 on October 2013 of the year in a report to the Bundestag that the promising Puma infantry fighting vehicle would not be adopted by the German army and would not start entering the troops in the middle of 2014, as previously planned. This is associated with significant shortcomings in the design of the Puma BMP, identified by the results of tests of an experimental batch of five cars. Thus, the main project in the field of ground weapons of the Bundeswehr of the last two decades was in a situation of complete uncertainty.

Among the main shortcomings of the Puma BMP, there were mentioned problems with the stability of the electronic systems, with software, technical documentation, as well as criticism of overweight and poor visibility for crew members.

One of five prototypes of the German Puma infantry fighting vehicle with a complete set of additional modular booking

For a long time, representatives of the Bundeswehr criticized the technical deficiencies identified during the tests of five experienced infantry fighting vehicles, noting in particular the poor night vision system, problems of the fire control system and problems with the wireless data interface between the BMP and the prospective Gladius soldier equipment of the Bundeswehr (see For example, material).

A particular criticism of the military is caused by a poor review of the Puma BMP driver. The driver has three daily periscopic observation devices, and the central device can be replaced with a passive night vision device. The driver also has an image screen from the rear view camera. The commander has five periscope observation devices, and another periscope device has a gunner. Duplicated fire control system for commander and gunner.

The hull of the Puma BMP is made of welded steel armor with a set of additional modular armor installed in case of need in the field to improve ballistic protection. The weight of Puma in the basic version of the reservation (the so-called level A) is 31,45 t, and with a fully mounted set of additional protection (level C) the combat weight reaches 43 t. The last value is considered by a number of Bundeswehr experts to be excessive in terms of operational and tactical mobility cars, and in terms of load on the chassis.

Thomas de Maiziere was not able to answer whether these problems of the Puma BMP are related to the changes made by the military at the R & D stage in the originally approved tactical and technical tasks. On the question of when the new BMPs would go into service with the Bundeswehr, the minister said he did not know, adding that he was waiting for the end of the month for clarifications and proposals from the machine manufacturers, Krauss Maffei Wegmann (KMW) and Rheinmetall. Both of these companies are developing and manufacturing BMP Puma under the auspices of the consortium PSM (Project System und Management) GmbH, created by them for this consortium.

The German Ministry of Defense 6 July 2009 issued a contract KMW and Rheinmetall for the production of 405 serial BMP Puma for the Bundeswehr in the amount of about 3,1 billion euros. The total cost of the procurement program for these machines was estimated at 4,3 billion euros. In 2012, due to regular reductions in the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany, the order for Puma infantry fighting vehicles was reduced to 350 units.

Comments

[Silkway0026]

need to share with customers))) or buy from Russia !!!

[Nayhas]

Quote: Silkway0026

or buy from Russia !!!

And what similar does Puma have in Russia?

[GDP]

For some reason, this BMP is often compared to the Terminator BMP, although the class is different, and the purpose and capabilities are also ...
They say bmpt terminator at a price one and a half or two times cheaper than Puma. The possibilities are an order of magnitude higher, but in electronics it is much inferior.

[mirag2]

That's it, that is not present.
Ha.Heavy seemed to be this apparatus for the battle, not the BMP parquet. And the Germans were not going to fight along the way.

[alex-defensor]

Quote: mirag2

Ha.Heavy seemed to be this apparatus for the battle, not the BMP parquet. And the Germans were not going to fight along the way.

Speaking of excessive weight, military strategists usually imply certain weight restrictions imposed by the need to transport vehicles. We have similar problems. That is why we do not make the 80-ton analogue of the BMC GCV from BAE Systems (USA). It’s just possible to fight such a thing, except perhaps with the Taliban in Afghanistan while patrolling the streets. A dynamic modern war with the frequent transfer of troops, their rapid movement, crossing rivers, crossings, swamps, etc. sets other requirements ... logistics ... you know!

[Gooch v. 2]

Quote: alex-defensor

A dynamic modern war with the frequent transfer of troops, their rapid movement, crossing rivers, crossings, swamps, etc. sets other requirements ... logistics ... you know!

Well, you don’t tell the Americans about logistics, they’ve been fighting across the ocean for 50 years now, and they’re not experiencing any problems.

[peter-tank]

Analog is a strong saying. We have BMP-3. "PUMA" surpasses our "three" only in mass. Another "analogue" is the T-72.

[edge]

Quote: Nayhas

And what similar does Puma have in Russia?

Russia, the founder of this class of vehicles, naturally compares the combat potential with ours. Their boxes cannot be compared with ours.

[alone]

this puma weighs like a t-72. it's a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. can you name a russian infantry fighting vehicle with that weight?

[Hort]

well, 43 tons is already a tank ... Although we recently had a heavy BMP project based on either the T-55 or the T-62, as part of their modernization

[Nitup]

The project exists on the basis of Almaty

[Edward72]

Yes, this piece of iron weighs almost like a T-90. NIFIGA BMP

[Hort]

it is now. For the first time in the early 2000s, it "surfaced", if not earlier

[klimpopov]

Kharkovites have this project, in my opinion it’s interesting.

[Lesnik]

Of course! the car is very interesting and the prospects for endless upgrades are huge. But who will buy her beauty?

[klimpopov]

Yes, it would be the will you yourself know who, but it’s easier for us soon ... Oh, I won’t be on mazolas.
Here is a photo of another interesting car I’ll put with your permission.

[Lesnik]

Kharkov repair too? honestly see the first! and what is the basis?

[klimpopov]

The same T-64. This is the layout. I don’t know about the wheel drive. Here is what I found.

Despite the use of a wheeled chassis, the machine is controlled "on-tank". The design of the wheel drive, however, is unknown.

http://rufor.org/showthread.php?t=2292

[Akim]

Quote: klimpopov

I don’t know about the wheel drive.

The drive of all wheels is independent. Hydraulic motors.
That year, the levers replaced the helms and introduced the automatic transmission.

[klimpopov]

Thank you for the clarification. How knowing what on this typewriter say? Surely discussed, but still.

[Akim]

Quote: klimpopov

Surely discussed, but still.

It was discussed, but there was no separate article. In general, there is little information on it. She fell into the shadow of the BTR-4, although it costs much cheaper. The truth is much more expensive than BTR-7. Now the project, perhaps they will transfer it to ZiM and the military will begin to test it. For me, BM Oplot and BTR-4 do not need APU.

[Bykov.]

Quote: Forestman

... One but who will buy her beauty? ...

In sense? Kiev cannot pull in money, procurement for the army or they don’t buy it at all.

[Russ69]

Not only to us, always messing with Kurgan ...

[Bykov.]

Quote: Russ69

... Not only to us, always messing with Kurgan ...

... The service of muses does not endure fuss ... A.S. Pushkin.
Lish would have done "nicely", and we can wait.

[Algor73]

"Among the main shortcomings of the Puma BMP were mentioned problems with the stability of the electronic systems, with software, technical documentation, as well as criticism of the excessive weight of the vehicle and poor visibility for the crew members" - but it looks beautiful. For me, it would be better if she was a freak, if only the crew felt in her as if behind a stone wall.

[leon-iv]

I'm losing weight from the Bundes. Do they have KSK chtol left soon?

[major071]

The machine was too heavy, but with a bunch of problems. Redo and adopt.

[Strashila]

The mass ... actually ... a tank, which was difficult to study the Israeli experience in remaking tanks, they don’t know where to put the Leopards of the first models ... autogen and a sledgehammer in their hands ... let them work. And there wasn’t enough wool for wool migrants from Russia ... there are clearly enough specialists there, so give them a topic, they’ll make such a mess ... but the Arabs and Turks can see the Germans closer in mentality ... and at the exit they got an unknown animal.

[Altona]

The German comrades went along the paths of Ahzarit and Namer ... They are probably going to fight in a completely open area ... So that they can see everything and the camera not be knocked out? Interesting terms of reference to read ...

[Akim]

Quote: Altona

The paths of Ahzarit and Namer went the German comrades ..

In your own way. This will be a single platform for infantry fighting vehicles, tanks, self-propelled guns.

[donavi49]

Why Europe needs an army with armored vehicles, that's what everyone thinks. 36 Tanks left on the move in France - The allocated money is enough only for the preparation of heavy equipment for the July 14 parade.

http://www.atlantico.fr/decryptage/defense-francaise-nos-guerriers-sont-prives-a
rmement-yvan-stefanovitch-874605.html

There is only enough money for anti-poop topics and the Air Force.

[Lesnik]

Baby is just super !!!!!!
Tell me plizzzz who makes in the post-Soviet space "fire control systems with a wireless data transfer interface between the infantry fighting vehicles and a promising set of Bundeswehr soldiers' equipment Gladius (see, for example, material)". And about the excessive mass, as you think, then their aircraft are not "expeditionary"
and I think that they will fix all the plugs

[mithridate]

the worse they have, the better Russia

[Migari]

The Germans are pedantic people, there are too many claims to this fighting vehicle, and such as weight and review deprive it of a future prospect. They will bring to mind.

[Kars]

Not at that time that the Bundeswehr would get such expensive toys. And the car is interesting.

[Zhenya]

This is not a BMP - this is a medium tank.

[Akim]

Quote: Marrying

This is not a BMP - this is a medium tank.

The main thing here is not weight, but the ability to transport troops.

[leon-iv]

And the car is interesting.

What armor?

[Kars]

Quote: Marrying

this is a medium tank

How cannon put a caliber from 75 to 105 then maybe.

Quote: leon-iv

What armor?

armor, or rather modularity including. The control system, the gun is quite interesting.

[leon-iv]

Yes xs about the KMK guns, it would be better to cut 57mm. The meaning is more. And the fragmentation field from 30mm is rather weak.
And what else is interesting could not properly stabilize the barrel? What limited the rate of fire to 200V / m because the machine is heavy and the recoil is not so strongly felt as on the BMP-2/3

[andrei332809]

Among the main disadvantages of the Puma BMP were mentioned problems with the stability of electronic systems, with software, technical documentation

China?

[Lesnik]

still helped electronics))))))))

[Andrey Peter]

Quote: Marrying

This is not a BMP - this is a medium tank.

The medium tank will be pulled by weight, and by other characteristics - BMP. The gun for the tank is rather weak and certainly inferior in armor. So that comes nito-nise. And to judge in more detail, there is not enough more complete information.

[Echo]

Quote: klimpopov

Kharkovites have this project, in my opinion it’s interesting.

Yeah, on the T-64 chassis ... of all the options, the kids chose the worst. T-64 is the most hated post-war tank in the army, and hated just for the chassis, which is VERY unsuccessful.

[klimpopov]

What prevents to remake T-72? Which we have enough for storage as well.

[leon-iv]

What prevents to remake the T-72?

But why?
We saw Kurgan-25 with normal protection (including mounted)
It will be based on ARMATA.
And the alteration is not less than the timing. If you do well.

[klimpopov]

Well, yes. But the question about the chassis went. Again when we see Kurganets. And here is a ready-made solution, now it’s not up to the show.

[leon-iv]

Gutaray for the victory parade of 2014. But I'm not inclined to believe in fairy tales. But there are no rumors in Kurgan. The combat module is ready trolley too.

[klimpopov]

God grant, God grant. I want to believe that so. Still their troops.

[leon-iv]

Well, really, in the 16-17th year the first brigade will be sawed. Catch cockroaches, etc., etc.

[klimpopov]

Somehow 16 - 17 does not really sound. On the verge of fiction for me. But these are my feelings.

[leon-iv]

Choi then?
14-15 Design work and testing (the whole cycle because it is too lazy to describe it)
15-16 Troops and GOS tests
Further delivery.

[klimpopov]

This is if everything is fine. And so, practice says otherwise. But I say, I really want to believe.

[Akim]

Quote: Echo

on the T-64 chassis ... of all the options, the kids chose the worst

What is in service with the Ukrainian army, they have chosen. Someone and BMPV-55.

[Lesnik]

on the 55ki platform

[Nayhas]

Don’t buy Cv-90 from the Swedes, since you forgot how to do it yourself ...

[bask]

Quote: Nayhas

Don’t buy Cv-90 from the Swedes, since you forgot how to do it yourself ...

CV-90, of course, is an excellent modular platform, but BMP ,, Puma ,, is made to the level of world standards.
Newer this armored vehicle in NATO, not what is not.
A ,, flaws ,, purely German. We would have their problems.

BMP Puma not adopted by the Bundeswehr

I think the modular platform, Puma, is not the only German development.
Something they already have on their way, another. More modern.

[Alexander Kirov]

CHILDREN TANKISTS TO UNDERSTAND GERMAN LOGIC IN PUMA NEEDS TO BE GERMAN FROM BIRTH. With German logic, they will never succeed in BMP-3. They will get a tank for transporting infantry instead of a BMP, which has no advantages over a conventional tank. It is necessary to see the development trend of the BMP in everything and clearly outline the tasks for the designers. There they set the task and did it. Their designers in Chechnya did not fight, and therefore there is no step away from the task and no thoughts. We need to have a main tank with a tank support combat vehicle, a heavy infantry support vehicle and a BMP-3 type (floating, fluttering canopy parachute) and cars front edge at their base, auxiliary vehicles of the third line MTLB, Ural with armor, etc. to solve all the problems of interaction between the rear and the front edge. Let the President clearly identify potential friends, and we will decide what armor we need for these tasks. As for the KhTRZ concept based on the t-64, the trend is excellent, just an idea, not execution. The idea is good - unification of engines, gearbox, instrumentation , chassis, hull plates, KAZ, DZ, MSA, ammunition, etc. We received a heavy BMPP and main tank, add BMPT on the same base plus support vehicles and get an armored fist that can solve just the tasks of modern wars, fleeting and brutal .

[Apollo]

Theme video

[Akim]

Prokopenko bent. Puma and Terminator compare.

[bask]

Quote: Akim

Prokopenko bent. Puma and Terminator compare.

Prokopenko just ****** l.
German BMP-TH 495, modular platform. . Created by Rheinmetall in 1994.
The first prototype was assembled in 2000.
In addition to the BMP, the family is supposed to include the BTR, anti-tank, sanitary-evacuation, KShM, reconnaissance vehicle, and a 105-mm tank made on the general GSh BTR.
The modular platform was created to replace the obsolete Marder BMP in 2013.
Software performance characteristics, similar to the BMP "Puma".
But the Bundeswehr was not adopted as well.

SO THAT IT IS NOT AN UNDERSTANDING ONE, LIVES, BUNDSWARE.

[bask]

I think our “Kurganets” will be in TTX and looks exactly like TH-495.
The Germans -Reinmetall with the creation of our BMP, I think helped.

[loki565]

Well, they did not fight in Chechnya, and they are not familiar with the purely Russian extreme "pokatushki" on armor. And why don't the soldiers want to ride in super light and "fluttering" BMPs?

[bask]

Quote: loki565

And why don't the soldiers want to ride in super light and "fluttering" BMPs?

1. Habit.
2. There is no mine protection.
3. Protection from monoblock RPGs.
From the movie, the fall of the black hawk, when the amers were offered to ride on armored personnel carriers, they ran to the pykham, here is their psychology.
Although more recently, in Vietnam and Lebanon they published, life was forcing.

[Lesnik]

Why, why - rocking there

[Lesnik]

Don't you think that you are contradicting yourself?

[bask]

Quote: Forestman

Don't you think that you are contradicting yourself?

What is the contradiction.
We will have modern, highly protected armored vehicles BMP-T, they will not ride on armor (probably).

[sergant89]

Che surprisingly, BMW and Mercedes can stick a night vision into business class sedans and the military ??!))) Of course it is clear that the purpose and devices are different but still.

[Sergey Medvedev]

My opinion is that the trend of heavier BMPs is fundamentally wrong. It is clear that I want more protection for the landing, but there is a sense from the infantry when it watches and shoots from the ground. And this protects his supporting armored vehicles. BMP-3 is so far the best there is. We’ll also look at Kurganets.

[Alexander Kirov]

It is not necessary to burden BMP indefinitely, but to establish the KAZ of the proper level and to protect the infantry from the predicted fire. It is necessary to change the thinking and tactics of those who support and protect someone in battle. If, of course, the BTR-60PB is in service, then it must be protected if in combat order T-72 with dynamic protection, whose TNT inserts were handed over to the warehouse so that the demobilization is not stolen, then such a tank also needs to be protected by naked infantry from idiots of bosses and the enemy. For many I see infantry as a statistical combat unit. When everyone thinks it's alive man and for his sake the battle is actually going on, then they will try to cover him with armor and care.

[roial]

set KAZ to the proper level

And you imagine what will happen to the landing when during the landing with BMP KAZ will work - imagine ??

[Kars]

Quote: roial

when during landing with BMP KAZ will work - presented ??

Vryatli KAZ will work with open hatches of an armored car.

[Lesnik]

I wildly apologize and who then will perform the combat mission if l \ s will be busy with the protection of his own field taxi?

[loki565]

IMHO BMP should be heavy with armor like a tank. The main argument "buoyancy" is currently not relevant. The submission is an attack ahead of the river BMPs are crossing it and what next? The tanks remained on the other side, as did the artillery and air defense. What will the BMP do next? It will not be able to hold its position. Swim back? For transporting soldiers, armored personnel carriers and armored vehicles of the Typhoon type are suitable. And in battle, the tank itself will not be able to clean out the buildings, the infantry is needed and it can only be delivered by a well-armored BMP. Or "pokatushki" on the armor and losses from sniper fire will start again ...

[ZU-23]

Something the Germans stupidly, if only BMW normally did)))

[Jager]

Weight under 45 tons for BMP - this is nonsense! BMP weighing with the heavy tank IS-2.
The Germans will successfully "cut out" the bugs and start production - just look who is involved in this project - Kraus-Maffei and Rheinmetall! The descendants of the gloomy Teutonic genius are extremely fond of all sorts of "wunderwaves" - armor up to the ears, the best weapon ... There is no inexpensive armor - it was proved near Kursk. It would be better instead of the extra armor put a sensible KAZ and a more serious gun.

The Germans, like ours, even with the construction of children's sleds as a result, something comes out on the tracks and with a gun.

[bask]

Quote: Jager

! The descendants of the gloomy Teutonic genius are extremely fond of various kinds of "wunderwaffle"

Here is such a "wunderwaffle" Kаtzchen armored personnel carrier in 1944.

[Lesnik]

and why sarcasm? function of delivery and protection of the infantry, this as you call "wunderwatches" performed and judging by the layout is pretty good! I advise you to inquire on what the Red Army infantry was moving! and I dare to assure you precisely because we have analogs!

[starhina01]

Here the Germans radishes well done because they will finish their production of BMP before production. true dear reptile and heavy it’s bad that the electronics hope a lot Chinese

[Prince Charming]

In vain you are so chasing a nemchuru, by the way, the chief designers of soviet armored vehicles factories always compare their wars with the German "cat" meaning by them the standard

[Prince Charming]

A couple of years ago, the Israelis became interested in a new type of armor. the choice was between the "terminator" and "bmpt 64" decided on 64 ke twisted sniffed, came home and began to remake their trophy 72 in the likeness of Ukrainian. Soon, I think we will see on TV somewhere in the gas sector

[Lesnik]

how much memory serves me this sample is called "Akhzarit" and it appeared long before the Kharkov developments

[Akim]

Quote: Forestman

this sample is called "Akhzarit" and it appeared long before the Kharkov developments

This is just a small alteration of the tank, along the path of which Russia went with the BTR-T. Kharkov cars is the concept of push-pushing, i.e. vice versa. I’ve heard about remaking Israel in a similar spirit for the first time, and it’s impossible because of the lack of compact power.

[Tourist Breakfast]

I’ve heard about remaking Israel in a similar spirit for the first time, and it’s impossible because of the lack of compact power.

The Akhzar is equipped with a more compact (compared to the T-55) American diesel engine, which made it possible to free up space along the side.

[Akim]

Do not confuse Akhzarit with what they propose to do here like the BMPT-64 based on the T-72. The dimensions of the armored hull will have to be increased as in the BMP "Temsah".

[Tourist Breakfast]

Do not confuse Akhzarit with what they propose to do here like the BMPT-64 based on the T-72. The dimensions of the armored hull will have to be increased as in the BMP "Temsah".

To begin with, a comrade from above generally writes complete nonsense. Israel has no trophy T-72, therefore, this whole topic does not make sense.

[Alexander Kirov]

An example from life. The Luga border of 1941. Having a 245-fold advantage in the armored vehicles of the 8TD Germans, the month was trampled at the Big Sabsk in front of the cadets of the Kirov LPKU. Reason - DShK 18 pcs. sheltered in the bunker and put on flanking fire, yes 10 PT min type MD-000, and HEs. Panzergrenadiers and Czech tanks could only go forward when the last cadet in the trench was killed by artillery fire. The DShK crumbled German armor by 40 m. There was something the Germans should think about, since then they have instinct, as they slammed their horns, they immediately think.

[Grandson of Veteran]

Quote: Nayhas

Quote: Silkway0026

or buy from Russia !!!

And what similar does Puma have in Russia?

No, it should be. Any miss of the enemy is our hit! ..

[Akim]

Quote: Veteran's grandson

Any miss of the enemy is our hit !.

It would be something to shoot from.

[vahatak]

Demanding will give a result. Germans, unlike others, do not trumpet the successes of the military-industrial complex prematurely and honestly admit when something goes wrong. As a result, they have the best technology in the world.