Why do Russian-speaking citizens of Kazakhstan seek to change a blue passport to a red one?

422
Emigration discomfort

What motivates Kazakhstani Russians who leave their homes? And why are many of them coming back? As the Federal Migration Service of the Russian Federation states, Kazakhstan ranks second among the countries from where compatriots go to Russia as part of the state resettlement program.

Controversial statistics

As the Deputy Minister of Regional Development of the Russian Federation Svetlana Ivanova announced earlier this month, according to the state program to assist the voluntary resettlement of compatriots living abroad, during the period from 2007 to 2012, 125 thousand people moved to Russia. In 2013, after the program became indefinite, 20 of thousands of citizens returned to their ethnic homeland. According to the vice-minister, the state program turned out to be the most popular among compatriots living in Kazakhstan (about 30% come from there), Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan (20%), Armenia and Ukraine (10%).

However, the information voiced by Ms. Ivanova does not quite fit in with the data of the FMS of the Russian Federation. As the head of the department for organizing work with compatriots of the FMS Vitaly Yakovlev noted last week, approximately 22 thousands of people returned to Russia this year, another 55 thousand expressed a similar desire. But the most important thing is that, according to the FMS version, Uzbekistan is in the first place and only then comes Kazakhstan. Following Ukraine and Moldova are located.

However, all these figures are not even close to the UN information. According to the organization’s September report, Russia-Ukraine (3,5 million people), Ukraine-Russia (2,9 million), and Kazakhstan-Russia (2,5 million) are among the most popular “migration routes” in the world. For the Republic of Kazakhstan with a population of 17 million people is a crazy figure, which is difficult to accept. Especially considering the fact that the Russian Federation still cannot reach the level in 300 of thousands of repatriates whom they promised to accept at the start of the program. It is possible that there was a typo, an error or the reason for the wrong translation ... It is possible that “migration” in this case meant trips to study, business trips, etc. Unfortunately, we could not find out. We did not receive a response to our request sent to the UN office in Almaty.

Anyway, but Kazakhstan has really succeeded in migratory affairs. According to the results of the 2012 study of the year conducted by the American Pew Research Center, we took the 11-place in the list of countries - suppliers of migrants. Thus, over the past 20 years (1991-2010) 4 million 150 thousand people left Kazakhstan, including 2 million 130 thousand people (51%) - Muslims, 560 thousand (14%) - Christian, and about 10 thousand (less than one percent) - the Jews.

And finally, let us turn to the figures, called our state bodies. According to the Statistics Agency of Kazakhstan, in the first six months of 2013, 12 902 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. The share of Russians was 71%. Over the past year, more than 21 thousands of people from the Russian population dropped out of the country, of whom 20 thousands went to Russia.

Who and why runs from Kazakhstan?

According to Kazakhstani sociologists, people leave not only for traditional reasons: dissatisfaction with the standard of living, difficulties with employment and housing, lack of social guarantees and prospects, family reunion, etc. There are purely specific reasons for Kazakhstan. Thus, according to Madina Nurgaliyeva, head of the department of sociopolitical research at KISS, when it comes to ethnic Russian citizens of Kazakhstan who are moving to Russia for permanent residence, arguments such as discrimination based on ethnicity and language are often added. Although in reality they are not so weighty to become a reason for moving to another country.

For example, many experts believe that the language factor is artificially injected. In the framework of the expert survey, the materials of which were published in the previous issue of the CAM, they agreed that the Russian language will remain in Kazakhstan for a long time as a bridge to the big world. “Nothing threatens his status, no matter what anyone says. There is more than enough Russian in the country, ”then political analyst Serik Belgibay explained. “For anyone in Kazakhstan, this is inalienable: like the mountains of Alatau or a sharply continental climate,” said Talgat Kasenov, chairman of the NGO “Almaly zhastary”. “It is impossible to oust. This is one of the six world languages ​​spoken by more than two hundred million people, ”Erkin Baydarov, a leading researcher at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the MES RK, recalled.

Experts and the ethnic factor consider the “bloated” too much - after all, the Russians continue to be the second largest national group in the republic after the Kazakhs. Both ethnos bind a long period of living together on the same territory, the total storycultural and spiritual values. According to experts, this is the key to peaceful coexistence and friendly relations between them.

Fears and delusions arise largely due to the short-sighted policy of official state structures that are trying to place the main blame on Kazakh nationalists, although the problem lies in them themselves, states Tolganai Umbetaliyeva, director of the Central Asian Foundation for the Development of Democracy. The outflow of the Russian population, in her opinion, is mainly due to two reasons: “Firstly, this is the lack of prospects. They do not see here a future for themselves and their children, since the system built in Kazakhstan leaves no hope for this, and especially for the possibility of self-realization. Secondly, the situation in the country in recent years has been unstable, both in the economic and political spheres. The mechanisms for ensuring social justice are incapable, the institutions of legal protection do not work. ”

But still, the main reason, according to Serik Belgibaya, is the desire of Russians to live among their own, in their familiar cultural environment. “It has been more than 20 years since the creation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, but they still did not adapt to new cultural and demographic realities. They almost always choose an isolation strategy, live in their own world. Moreover, this trend continues and even increases. It has long been uncommon that commercial companies are almost entirely composed of representatives of Slavic ethnic groups. But you can't live like that for long. The shape of Kazakhstan is changing. Kazakh speech is increasingly heard on the streets, the number of Kazakhs is increasing, and this is another reason for the discomfort for the Russian population. Habitual environment is changing. It becomes Asian, Muslim. For all the 20 years of the new country’s existence, practically nothing has been done to resolve this situation, except for spells on stability and interethnic world, ”the political scientist said in an interview with Radiopoint.

In the current situation, Kazakhstan is unable to stop the Russians. The process of their emigration, I am sure Serik Belgibay, will occur constantly, but only at different rates - quickly, as in 1990, or slowly, as in the middle of the “zero” ones. Moreover, the expert predicts, the appearance of the Russian population of Kazakhstan will change, not only quantitatively but also qualitatively. “Today, many Russians send their children to study in Russia - of course, with the prospect that they will stay there. Young, active, rich, educated people are leaving. So gradually, the average indicator of the Russian population in terms of education, income will decline, and in terms of age it will grow, the political scientist argues.

Strangers among their

However, in the ethnic homeland of the Kazakhs, Russians are also not welcome with open arms. Compatriots who have arrived informally find themselves in the status of “strangers among their own”, and there are a lot of reasons for this, one of which is hostility from the local population. As a rule, people who have moved to Russia under the program of assisting voluntary resettlement are sent to the most depressed regions of the country, the level and quality of life in which do not always correspond to their needs and expectations. In addition, they are everywhere faced with bureaucratic and economic obstacles. And the unregulated issues of registration at the place of residence and obtaining Russian citizenship creates obstacles for them at all stages: in finding a job, studying, getting a lift, benefits, buying a home.

As an employee of the Center for Migration Studies, Elena Kirillova, notes in one of her analytical notes, compatriots were promised housing with the relevant documents, but only 10% of the displaced people received it. “Almost all respondents who participated in our survey lived either in dormitories or in semi-abandoned and collapsed shacks (barracks, barns, carriages), which had long been overdue. Few were lucky enough to get apartments in houses built by the Federal Migration Service specifically for internally displaced persons. But this housing is temporary and fragile. However, the problem was not only in the absence of normal housing, but also in the fact that even if the housing was provided to the displaced people, it was not allowed to be settled for themselves, ”Kirillov states.

According to the expert, Russia is a bit late with this program. Those who wanted to move to Russia for permanent residence left, and the majority of those who remained were adapted. And the situation in the CIS countries has changed. “Many of them are developing faster than Russia, skilled workers are in demand everywhere. Now the Russians from the former Soviet republics are not eager to give up an established life and indulge in the unknown. First, the size of the “lifting” does not pay back the huge costs of resettlement, and secondly, the big problems with housing. And the one who assumes the relocation no longer acts rashly - at first he comes to reconnoiter. And what he saw in Russia is not encouraging. Therefore, many migrants today prefer the tactics of temporary visits to work, rather than permanent residence, ”notes Elena Kirillova.

The solution of all these problems is sometimes delayed for years and becomes the main reason for the return of the Russians back to Kazakhstan.
422 comments
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  1. +5
    21 October 2013 06: 31
    And really his among strangers, a stranger among his own. Good morning everyone! hi
    1. +22
      21 October 2013 06: 49
      It’s just that Kazakh Russians have enough money to move, and until the last they probably didn’t want to go to frosts. From Uzbekistan, my relatives were kicked out at 91 in 24 hours without further ado, and burned at home.
      1. +56
        21 October 2013 07: 19
        You know, the article is a big minus, I myself moved from Kazakhstan in 2010 and everything that is said here is complete nonsense ... Almost all of my entourage in Kazakhstan either moved or are ready to do this, and among them there are quite a few Kazakhs ... and those who have moved live no worse than in KZ ... And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination based on nationality and language (including for Kazakhs), it's just not customary to talk about it in Kazakhstan. ..In the article, some "Expert" says something about commercial structures in which there is supposedly one Slavic ethnic group, but for some reason he is silent about the obligation of each enterprise to hire Kazakhs, which is controlled by akimats of all levels, that the courts, the prosecutor's office, police, banks, etc., etc., etc., consist of 95% of Kazakhs and not because of the absence of other candidates ... The only thing I agree with is that after a certain time, mostly declassed element and elderly people will remain in Kazakhstan (here I mean only Russian linguistic population), because the youngest and most efficient part of it leaves ...
        1. +31
          21 October 2013 08: 37
          Quote: BlackScorp
          after a certain time in Kazakhstan there will remain mainly a declassified element and elderly people (here I mean only the Russian-speaking population), because the youngest and most efficient part of him is leaving ...

          This suggests that the most able-bodied part of the population does not see further prospects in the country of residence and most importantly for their children.All of whom I know from immigrants and this is not only Kazakhstan but other CIS countries, everyone calls this reason.Kazakhstan is the last Central Asian country where people of European appearance (not only Russians) still make up a significant percentage of the population, They were kicked out of other countries almost immediately, the methods only differed, where forcibly, where voluntarily-forcibly. Therefore, against their background, naturally the migration figures of the Russian-speaking population look so significant. And after the creation of the CES, you can leave without changing your passport (citizenship),
          «
          Now people are more likely to travel without changing their citizenship, especially to Russia or Belarus. Now you can live and work there without changing your passport, so we will have a huge internal migration. The FMS of Russia cited such figures that in mid-January of this year, more than 500 thousand Kazakhstanis were registered, ”said Marat Shibutov, representative of the Association for Cross-Border Cooperation in Kazakhstan.

          If we take the statistics of the Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan on migration, according to it, in January-July in Kazakhstan for all flows, the number of arrivals amounted to 173 people, departures - 690 people. Of these, the number of immigrants amounted to 174 people, emigrants - 362 12 people, which is 230% (12 902 people) and 2012% (32 17 people) respectively, compared to the same period of 974.
          Of the total number of emigrants, the share of Russians was 70,9% (73,8%), Ukrainians - 8% (7,6%), Germans 6,4% (5,5%), and among immigrants the share of Kazakhs was 62,3 , 69% (4%), Kyrgyz - 1,8% (2,5%), Uzbeks - 2,6% (2,2%), Azerbaijanis - 2,2% (XNUMX%).
          link
          The tendency is that Kazakhstan, like the rest of the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus, is turning into a mono-ethnic state of the eastern type. All this is done not for the benefit of the titular nation, but along with the Anglo-Saxon policy, the main purpose of which is in no case to prevent the reconstruction of the USSR in one form or another Russian Empire. Ideally, Russia should be surrounded by mono-ethnic entities hostile to it, primarily at the cultural and mental level. Divide and rule politics is nothing new.
          1. +4
            21 October 2013 11: 49
            There are quite a lot of immigrants to the Omsk region; I myself encounter them when working with them. most from Kazakhstan, then Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. By the way, a lot of ethnic Kazakhs are traveling. there are areas in the city, mainly the private sector, where Kazakhs, if not the majority, then half for sure
            1. Marek Rozny
              +2
              21 October 2013 12: 13
              Quote: Starfish
              immigrants to the Omsk region travels a lot

              rode. now the stream has dried up for a long time. 20 thousand immigrants from Kazakhstan to all of Russia per year. And as much back.
              Quote: Starfish
              By the way, a lot of ethnic Kazakhs are traveling.

              On the contrary. Kazakhs more often leave the Omsk region for Kazakhstan. Another thing is that the village Kazakhs of the Omsk region are also moving to the city of Omsk.
              Even despite the fact that the birth rate of the Kazakhs is normal, according to statistics, we see that the number of Kazakhs in the Omsk region is declining:
              2002 - 81618 people;
              2010 year - 78303 people.
              And here is the info from the FMS website in your area:
              "On December 27, an extended meeting was held at the Office of the Federal Migration Service for the Omsk Region, at which the results of service activities for 2012 were summed up ...
              In the outgoing year, the migration situation in the Omsk region is still characterized by a negative migration balance. The number of leaving citizens of the Russian Federation exceeded the number of arrivals by 1650 people ... "
              Question: And who among the inhabitants of the region oppress you, that people leave more often than they come?
              1. +1
                21 October 2013 12: 42
                Something statistics is somehow strange:

                2002 - 81618 people;
                2010 year - 78303 people.

                I don’t see a decrease in the Kazakhs, in fact, probably not all are prescribed.

                Question: And who among the inhabitants of the region oppress you, that people leave more often than they come?

                how does anyone oppress? all the same persons in the Russian and regional governments. and quite a lot of people come from the Far East - they live here, they work.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  21 October 2013 12: 51
                  Quote: Starfish
                  I don’t see a decrease in the Kazakhs, in fact, probably not all are prescribed.

                  because according to the statistics of the Omsk region it is clearly seen that even despite a decrease in the Kazakhs in the structure of the region’s inhabitants, their number as a percentage increased due to a decrease in the number of Russians.
                  If in 2002 81 thousand Kazakhs accounted for 3,93% of the region's population, then in 2010 78 thousand Kazakhs were equal to 3,96% of the region's population. Despite their decline, the percentage of Kazakhs "grew up" due to the massive decline of the Russian population in the Omsk region.

                  Quote: Starfish
                  how does anyone oppress? all the same persons in the Russian and regional governments.

                  But why are you always oppressed by something ... Move to Kazakhstan, there, to the official, what a nationality are you.
                  1. +10
                    21 October 2013 13: 16
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    But why are you always oppressed by something ... Move to Kazakhstan, there, to the official, what a nationality are you.
                    - as he milked for the performance of his direct duties, he will milk, and to the lantern to him that you are Kazakh, Russian, Uighur or Congolese laughing Although, of course, this is not funny, but it is true.
                    1. +3
                      21 October 2013 13: 27
                      Why are you oppressed everywhere ... Move to Kazakhstan

                      I had in mind economically, here they are going to introduce social norms, tariffs are rising everywhere. what is it if not oppression? but in Kazakhstan I don’t think that the official cares about the problems of ordinary people.
                    2. +1
                      21 October 2013 15: 25
                      but there is a nuance, and you should know it, that's why they leave
                  2. +2
                    21 October 2013 22: 01
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Move to Kazakhstan, there, to the official, what a nationality are you.

                    The official may even be in the mood for a light bulb, but the one who appoints these officials is not up to the light bulb. There are NO officials of Russian nationality in Kazakhstan.
                    1. 0
                      22 October 2013 12: 15
                      Bulk officials here Slavic nationality ....
                  3. Alex Bugur
                    0
                    23 October 2013 06: 50
                    Well, where are you living yourself ?!
          2. smersh70
            0
            21 October 2013 12: 12
            Quote: Ascetic
            The trend is that Kazakhstan, like other countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus, will


            only please remove Georgia and Azerbaijan from this list .... smile first look at the numbers, how many live there and what nationalities .. then say ..... but Armenia is just right ---- a real mono-ethnic state ....
          3. +3
            21 October 2013 14: 20
            Quote: Ascetic

            The trend is that Kazakhstan, like the rest of the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus, is turning into a mono-ethnic state of the eastern type.


            Dear,
            Just do not be offended, but you just wrote nonsense.
            Kazakhstan has no chance of becoming mono-ethnic - there is such a hodgepodge of 130 peoples. To assimilate 7 mln of non-Kazakhs - 10 mln of Kazakhs - is not realistic !!! No one is going to leave - just the birth rate of the Russians is low, and the Uzbeks are high - so the balance will change gradually - for centuries. The same goes in Russia. These are facts of our reality.
            1. +3
              22 October 2013 12: 17
              ... Uzbeks? !!! There are only a few Uzbeks in Kazakhstan! lol
        2. -1
          21 October 2013 08: 51
          Quote: BlackScorp
          ..And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination based on nationality and language (including for Kazakhs), it's just that it's not customary to talk about it in Kazakhstan ..
          Everyone sees what he wants to see.
          For some reason, the Russians, Kazakhstan, Russia, are considering everything from the perspective of a stalk on their own ...
          For some reason, seeing Kazakhs in positions, they do not at all point to see Kazakhs who live below the poverty line, where Kazakhs are beyond competition ...
          Russians have a peculiar perspective, noticing Kazakhs in Mercedes without noticing the masses of Kazakhs working on rough work. And these Kazakhs, unlike the Russians, have no opportunity to "run away" with cries of "we are being oppressed" ..
          As for the language, there are regularly cases when a Kazakh, Kazakh woman cannot receive services, advice due to the fact that the opposite side does not know the state (Kazakh) language. Question, this is not an infringement of the rights of the Kazakh-speaking population, of which the majority ?!
          Yes, and do not confuse sour with salty. The main problem is not national, but socio-economic. The situation in post-Soviet Kazakhstan is absolutely similar to the situation in the Russian Federation and other CIS countries.
          P.S. The problem is not new; it has already been described in Russian literature. Remember "The Cherry Orchard" by A.P. Chekhov.
          1. avt
            +3
            21 October 2013 09: 14
            Quote: Alibekulu
            The situation in post-Soviet Kazakhstan is absolutely similar to the situation in the Russian Federation and other CIS countries.

            Yes, that’s natural.
            Quote: Alibekulu
            The main problem is not national, but socio-economic

            And here I do not agree, the problem is national and socio - economic. It could not be otherwise when building a state on a national basis, by the way, if the former republics of the USSR kind of `` flared up '' with a question, since there is simply no other ideology for building an independent state, and they were not particularly looking for, then Russia is slowly but surely flaring up, that by and large, to put it mildly, the authorities do not bother with real domestic politics, it will end badly.
            1. +2
              21 October 2013 09: 38
              Quote: avt
              And here I do not agree, the problem is national
              Maybe it is, but national as a result of socio-economic problems.
              Quote: nemec55
              The most unfortunate and shameful being a participant in the genocide in which the Kazakhs, although not on a global scale, were still implicated in the attitude towards the Russian-speaking population.
              My friend recourse , yes you definitely hit your head on the asphalt ...
              I will give an example that does not in any way refer to the "genocide of Russians in Kazakhstan", but I think it can explain a lot.
              About three years ago, a good friend of mine decided to marry. He really liked the girl, which is called "This is mine." Those. satisfied in every sense. And as a wife, and as a mistress and as a mistress. But, his parents were totally against it. She was married and has a child.
              We sit and drink beer. I told him: "Forget it on your parents, it's your choice, and then they will put up with it."
              And in their family it was already like this with the elders .. and the father's brother took with the child and the father's sister got married 3 times (three sons from different fathers). We drank enough .. well, and the parents saw enough that "We don't need this."
              And, often in these families, the following situation. Somewhere a child naughty, and accordingly, it is necessary to punish .. But okay, your son, with a belt on the priest, is perceived absolutely normal, but if a stranger ?! And then it begins: "And this is because it is not native crying "
              "Offend fatherlessness" belay
              So many Russians in Kazakhstan, often out of the blue begin: "This is all because I am black (Russian)" ...
              1. avt
                +3
                21 October 2013 13: 39
                Quote: Alibekulu
                Maybe it is, but national as a result of socio-economic problems.

                And these are communicating vessels, they feed each other, it is always convenient to merge one onto the other and stay at the same time in all white against the background of those around.
          2. essenger
            -24
            21 October 2013 09: 17
            Quote: Alibekulu
            The situation in post-Soviet Kazakhstan is absolutely similar to the situation in the Russian Federation

            On the national question in Russia, things are worse. Fascism blooms there.
            1. +6
              21 October 2013 10: 48
              I read and am amazed .. A person writes that Kazakhs do not receive proper service due to the lack of knowledge of the state language (Kazakh) by the service side. And he immediately cons ... What, is he wrong about something? Should non-indigenous citizens care less about the majority language? Then why does the screeching and howling rise when it is written that some migrant does not know Russian ... This is certainly not normal, and I agree with you. But a Russian, living in another country, does not bother to master the state, and THIS is already considered, judging by the minuses, normal. And we have such - they live for 50-60 years, but they cannot connect two words. But there are also exceptions. I personally know several Russians, young guys and girls who work in the marketing department of very large companies, they PERFECTLY know Azerbaijani, receive a very decent salary and do not intend to go to any Russia. One TV channel even has a Russian announcer, leads a news release on The daughter of a Russian neighbor left for St. Petersburg a year ago, and after a while she returned. I could not stand that moral atmosphere. And what are the fables like "someone was kicked out, and the house was burned ..." Why burn the house? Those who have not been able to adapt to the new economic realities leave, so they invent about "persecution and violence." There is no need to carry out double standards, this does not happen - we can, but you cannot.
              1. +21
                21 October 2013 12: 02
                If a third of the population of the republic, and at the time of the collapse of the Union, almost half were not ethnic Kazakhs and the Russian language (including for the Germans) was their native language, they simply did not know Kazakh and did not have to know, because moved not to the country of Kazakhs, but to another part of their USSR state, then transferring, for example, office work to Kazakh is already a xenophobic crime. Now there is a nuance - special knowledge in the field of medicine, science and technology - the terms have Latin, European or Russian names because of the ethnicity of the scientists who made the scientific revolution and the most stupid translation into the language of the people in the 19th century who lived in yurts and already had no written language, a crime against nature .
                One way or another, but the chief akyn Nazarbayev himself says that the outflow of Russian-speakers has already irreversibly affected the medical and educational level of the republic, and Azerbaijanis have one thing to do with equipment that they themselves are not capable of doing (including military) will have to learn Russian or There is an alternative to learning English.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. +6
                  21 October 2013 14: 41
                  A worthy citizen of his country
                  1. -2
                    21 October 2013 17: 42
                    And in Kazakhstan there are also worthy ones. For example Khrapunov. Russian himself was the leader of the whole region and perfectly knew the Kazakh language.
                    And the fact that he is now hiding abroad from Kazakhstani justice, it doesn’t matter wink
                    1. +1
                      21 October 2013 17: 47
                      Quote: scientist
                      For example Khrapunov

                      is this boor worthy? !!!
                      he was considered a boor during the time of the Lenin executive committee, and afterwards he flew completely off the coils
                    2. Asan Ata
                      +2
                      22 October 2013 00: 15
                      Nonsense! This one spoke Russian with a simulated Kazakh accent, and neither Kazakh boom-boom, he personally knew. And do not call the thief worthy, in Almaty they all hate him. This geek sold everything absolutely, he managed to sell the fountain in front of the circus on the last day of his work, the circus and nothing more! laughing
                      1. Gur
                        +3
                        22 October 2013 15: 59
                        Khrapunov is a man of the existing and existing system. A thief from thieves, who did everything to be at the feeding trough, just seemed to cross the road to the suffering one, and it started, although for a certain bribe, he was released from the country with the provision of an aircraft for the export of meager belongings. Swiss citizenship was bought for 1 million green per person.
                  2. Gur
                    +3
                    22 October 2013 15: 52
                    I wonder how she will sing if these threats come to life.

                    "Baku threatened to answer for Biryulyovo
                    If the attacks on Azerbaijanis in Russia do not stop, then adequate measures will be taken against the Russians living in Azerbaijan. Such a statement was sent to the Russian Embassy in Baku on October 17 ... "
                    Those. we will be a little chick chick in the back, and you are silent; otherwise we’ll make chicks at our place too ..
                3. +1
                  22 October 2013 12: 24
                  Do not write nonsense! The ancestors of the Kazakhs at the beginning of the 1st millennium had their own written language - you can see examples of the Turkic runic writing on the Internet. Can you do it yourself? And then look like an ordinary chauvinistic shkolota ...
              2. smersh70
                +4
                21 October 2013 12: 14
                Quote: xetai9977
                I read and marvel

                I also laughing after Ukraine and Azerbaijan now they took up Kazakhs wassat this week, comrades Kazakhs, it will be very hot here))). do not be absent .... fellow
                1. +10
                  21 October 2013 12: 36
                  Members of the forum have 3 registered enemies - Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. About the United States, China, the EU, Japan, Turkey and many others I will keep silent, they have there "decline", "general poverty", "total blueness", in short, everything that so happily bypassed Russia ... The site has almost dissent is prohibited. We need to say "Let us drive NATO," "We will destroy China," "Let us free Constantinople," and agree to each other. General approval ... Only sooner or later you will have to take off your rose-colored glasses ...
                2. +10
                  21 October 2013 13: 15
                  Before your eyes, (unlike you, twenty-odd years later), Russia is turning from a surviving fragment of the USSR into a Russian state, because there is a generational change and the national consciousness of Russians begins to free itself from the Comintern heresy (in which Russians, unlike most of you sincerely believed). And since I repeat, the Russian people are imperial, i.e. always creates an empire, no matter what banner and ideals (see history), nationalist, I’m not afraid of the word Nazi Russia in its vast possessions will not stop. The same tendencies are observed in Europe, where the nationalists in the elections are already boldly taking a third of the vote, when it exceeds fifty, it will begin. All these processes are skillfully managed by the Europeans (Russia is not an exception) who are creeping in Europe, not understanding, they are doing their job, then everything is according to the plan that was announced by A. Pike a hundred years ago and which is 90% fulfilled.
                  1. smersh70
                    -3
                    21 October 2013 13: 22
                    Quote: hrych
                    because I repeat, the Russian people are imperial, i.e. always creates an empire

                    as far as I know, each time Russia as an empire was not built at all by the people of the titular nation .. (for examples go or ..... wassat ) But seriously, then all the peoples inhabiting the country created an empire .... and that was in the past .... right now Russia needs to assert itself ... clean the Augean stables .. and most importantly, to be attractive to others, not to rattle armaments to drive everyone under one comb .... the world is different ....
                    1. +9
                      21 October 2013 14: 05
                      The best thing Russia does is weapons, the best thing Russians do is fight. So you have to do what they know how to do better. And this is a military site and you seem to be in uniform, and the positivism (from the word poz) on the sites of housewives. Russia is not obliged to be attractive to anyone.
                      1. Asan Ata
                        +4
                        22 October 2013 00: 23
                        Finally, the correct assessment. But really from this site you do not expect patriotic cacophony and nationalist snot, but a balanced analysis of development paths.
                    2. +3
                      21 October 2013 22: 15
                      Quote: smersh70
                      as far as I know, each time Russia as an empire was not built at all by the people of the titular nation ..

                      Here, in more detail, what nation were these great people who created the empire?
                      1. -2
                        22 October 2013 12: 27
                        Well, for example, Suvorov and Kutuzov have precisely Turkic roots ... Suvorov is generally Tatar ...
                      2. Kostyan85
                        +5
                        22 October 2013 15: 12
                        do not carry nonsense about their not Russian roots. If my paternal grandfather is Kazakh, the grandmother is a guranka, and my maternal grandfather is Ukrainian, the grandmother is Russian. I can also be called not Russian. But I’ll spit in the face to the one who does it. I think Suvorov and Kutuzov would do the same. Because the definition of a particular nation is not the percentage of blood.
                      3. +1
                        22 October 2013 16: 39
                        Less emotion! Do you know how many Turks laid their lives on the altar of Russia? A lot of Suvorov and Kutuzov are not alone there ... Well, for example Derzhavin - a baptized Tatar, too. Yes, such a sea was still in the Horde period left to serve with the Russian princes. Almost half of the noblemen of Russia were of Turkic origin and had their pedigrees from various Murzes. Well, specifically for you, if your paternal grandfather was Kazakh, and the mother is a goranka (it seems that the goons are descendants of the Buryats and Semenovites?), Then your father is also Kazakh, and accordingly you too. Interesting, and from what teip / kind or you do not know?
                      4. +1
                        22 October 2013 15: 29
                        Quote: Netrocker
                        Suvorov is so generally Tatar

                        We are Russians! God with us! (A.V. Suvorov)
                      5. +6
                        22 October 2013 16: 44
                        Well, so what? When a captive German officer asked a major Kazakh at the front, “Why are you fighting for Stalin and the Russians, you’re not Russian?” ... He answered, “Damn it, remember - we are all Russians here!” ... It was the commander my maternal grandfather. He ended the war in Konigsberg ...
                      6. essenger
                        -3
                        22 October 2013 16: 47
                        Quote: Netrocker
                        "Your mother, remember - we are all Russians here!" ...

                        He is certainly wrong
                      7. 0
                        22 October 2013 19: 04
                        Quote: Netrocker
                        He replied - "Your mother, remember - we are all Russians here!"

                        then he felt like a Russian
                      8. Field
                        -2
                        25 October 2013 20: 55
                        Pan-Turkism is flourishing, all Turkic pancake
                    3. Kostyan85
                      +1
                      22 October 2013 14: 57
                      is it the code that the Russian empire was not built by the Russians? Give an example please.
                  2. +1
                    21 October 2013 13: 25
                    So good to health! And we say that every nation is complete sovereign within its borders! Anyone against? But why do you recognize such a right among Russians in Russia, while citizens of other states should tolerate a disregard for themselves, for their language on the part of citizens of these same states of Russian nationality? There was recently an article that Kazakhstan is going to switch to the Latin alphabet .. What a fuss !!! The Kazakhs learned that they were both "traitors and" ungrateful ", and" it would be necessary to consult more .. "We must remember that the time of empires has passed.
                    1. +13
                      21 October 2013 14: 14
                      Well, this is a Russian site, and if an unfriendly step towards our Russian alphabet, then it’s normal, and those who did not have a written language and juggle wretched letters with pity letters in essence. The essence of these manipulations is extortion: you don’t give money (or if you have money, then some kind of fucked Karabakh) I’ll go to the Latins (read NATO and the EU) and do not blame xenophobia, this is the world, it did not create people equal, who it launches people into space, and someone roams in yurts and space poop falls on them. The last heresy in the USSR was about it, but it ended, or rather, it all began with Sumgait and Ferghana.
                      1. +1
                        21 October 2013 14: 26
                        Quote: hrych
                        Well, this is a Russian site, and if an unfriendly step towards our Russian alphabet, then it’s normal, and those who did not have a written language and juggle wretched letters with pity letters in essence.

                        What are you campaigning for here? Cyril and Methodius were Greeks - they developed the Cyrillic alphabet for all Slavic peoples. Do not invent your Russian alphabet.
                        You are engaged in some kind of agitation here - but the most elementary knowledge of the school curriculum is not enough.
                        We are here in the discussions for the truth.
                      2. +13
                        21 October 2013 14: 40
                        Firstly, their Greek origin has not been proven in Bulgaria because they are not Bulgarians - their eyes will be scratched. Secondly, on the orders of the emperor, they wrote down the long-known (archeology to help you) alphabet for translating the Holy Scriptures and no more. But the founder of your written tradition, Abay was wiser than some.
                      3. +6
                        21 October 2013 14: 50
                        Kazakh writing today exists on the basis of 3 alphabets: Arabic, Latin and Cyrillic.
                        Abay used Arabic script - the krillitsa came to replace the Latin alphabet in the 1940 by order of Stalin after Turkey headed for Europe.
                        Again you have spaces. Enhance your education further.
                        I’m not going to argue with the Bulgarians - Genghis Khan is now not recorded by anyone - even a Japanese samurai.
                      4. +3
                        21 October 2013 15: 11
                        Abay was a supporter of introducing his people to the Russian culture (this is just about that, about the teacher) and, on the whole, was not mistaken, since you don’t twist the donkey by the tail, the presence of Kazakhs in the Russian state led to a significant increase in the cultural level. And now I advise you, Major, not to engage in Arabian zagogulins, but to study Chinese characters and theses of the last plenary session of the CPC Central Committee, which is very useful.
                      5. 0
                        21 October 2013 15: 59
                        Peter the first hound was a supporter of familiarizing his people with the German culture (this is just about that, about the teacher) and was not mistaken as a whole, since you didn’t twist the donkey by the tail, the Germans' presence in the Russian state led to a significant increase in the cultural level. And now I advise you, Army General, not to engage in Arab squiggles, but to study Chinese characters and theses of the last plenum of the CPC Central Committee, which will be very useful.
                      6. +3
                        21 October 2013 16: 51
                        Don't be monkey, Peter got a state that created the Tsar Cannon and the Tsar Bell, in the metallurgical sense inaccessible to the west of that time, the Germans began to drive even Lomonosov (in science) and nothing remained of them except nasty things. We have Yars from the Chinese, but what about you? And you have a nail in your pocket ...
                      7. +4
                        21 October 2013 17: 14
                        hrych
                        Teach your wife how to cook cabbage soup.
                        Do not poke. Yars are modernized Poplars. And in general, say thank you to Georgian Stalin for taking him out of a century of backwardness.
                        You and the Americans have one disease - a star - love to teach everyone, but you yourself cannot even master the school curriculum.
                      8. +4
                        21 October 2013 17: 33
                        Quote: Lindon

                        Poplars. And in general, say thank you to Georgian Stalin for taking him out of a century of backwardness.
                        you cannot even master the school curriculum.

                        your rudeness is somewhat tiring
                        I wonder where uncle Joe got you from then?
                      9. +2
                        21 October 2013 17: 43
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

                        your rudeness is somewhat tiring
                        I wonder where uncle Joe got you from then?


                        Rude - where to us to you. We still have to study and learn such harbor throwing.
                        Uncle Joe overstrained while dragging you, his hands did not reach us. Great was a man.
                      10. +1
                        21 October 2013 17: 51
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Rude - where to us to you. We still have to study and learn such harbor throwing.

                        Well, give an example of my rudeness, or as always unfoundedly accuse and in the bushes?
                      11. +2
                        21 October 2013 20: 07
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Well, let's try to analyze the problem by personalities, "friends", "well-wishers" of Kazakhstan.
                        I eat-but "Uncle Vova" ...
                        Once Vasilenko lived in Almaty, a city of union significance. He worked in advertising for 15 years, was a "white collar". He was an elite in his profession. And, accordingly, I felt like a "white man" ..
                        But, but well-being cannot last forever.
                        The trouble came from where they did not expect. Suddenly the Russians, "from Budun," themselves, with songs and dances, destroyed the USSR.
                        And then in their native Alma-Ata there were "aul" who ...
                        By the way, these "aul" people would not have appeared there if the Union had not collapsed. At least, they were not seen there before this event.
                        And Vasilenko panicked, fled to the mainland ..
                        And, here, to describe the state of mind of Vladimir, 2 pictures "Did not wait" and "Swam" come to mind ...
                        Kazakhs, you don’t need to scold Vasilenko, you just need to feel sorry for him ...
                        From the megalopolis, which is Almaty, he did not even end up in Muhospanck or Tmutarakan, but in a "hole" in which there is no normal shop nearby ..
                        And instead of doing clean work in the office, he is now digging in manure ..
                        And really, a mockery of fate - breeds sheep and goats ..
                        Interestingly, Kazakhs from the people of cattle breeding become an urban nation, and Vasilenko is in the opposite process ..
                        Here is such a "sadness" .. crying
                        By the way, what happened to Volodimer explains why Eeyore still does not "run away" from Kazakhstan, despite the requests, persuasions and wishes of the Kazakhs ... "his fate is the guarantee" .. She is not at all happy with the prospect of "Vasilenkov" ..
                        P.S. What is interesting in all topics not related to Kazakhstan, Vasilenko is adequate. But, how does it go "about Kazakhstan" angry
                      12. +1
                        21 October 2013 20: 39
                        Alibek, I'm sorry for being rude, but I can’t even call you a fool.
                        I was discharged labor when I was 14 years old, I studied at school washing floors so as not to ask for money, while studying at the institute I worked as a mechanic for adjusting sewing equipment, this is by the way about white-collar workers.
                        your mind is not enough to understand that a person wants to live on earth and enjoys it
                      13. +1
                        22 October 2013 07: 54
                        Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Sympathize with you.
                        How could we still swarm without such a human being for 22 of the year. I want to cry as we began to collect diesel locomotives and helicopters without you. Well, you can buy a Kazakhstan auto assembly in your hole.
                        You can immediately see Russia, thanks to you, I immediately got out of the train ... where Gorbachev and Yeltsin took her.
                        I wish you success - you are our gold.
                      14. +3
                        22 October 2013 16: 27
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Alibek sorry for being rude.
                        So be forgiven bully
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        but I can’t even call you a fool.
                        Though you should call it a pot, just don’t put it in the stove (in the sense I don’t fall sheep)
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        man wants to live on earth and enjoys it
                        In your place, I would say that too))
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        it's about white-collar workers.
                        By the way, when you left Almaty, did you wash the floor or work as a mechanic ?!
                      15. -3
                        22 October 2013 17: 03
                        Alibek, I say, you don’t understand one thing, you don’t even drive in your stupidity that I could just as well buy an apartment in the city and not a small one, I was looking specifically for a house on the ground and that there would be plenty of land
                      16. +3
                        22 October 2013 20: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        you don’t understand all one
                        Why then go broke?
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        you do not even drive in your stupidity
                        Well, yes, I'm Kazakh ...
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I could just as well buy an apartment in a city and not a small one
                        Yeah, for this you google and the prices of apartments in Kostanay.
                        And, in general, if it’s so good for you, what is hysterical ?! No.
                      17. -3
                        22 October 2013 20: 34
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Well, yes, I'm Kazakh ...

                        that infuriates me in you and your kind, you turn right out of your skin, just to translate the attitude of all Kazakhs personally towards you, I say once again - PERSONALLY YOU, NOT KAZAKH AMONG WHICH I AM ENOUGH FRIENDS, AND PERSONALLY YOU
                      18. -4
                        22 October 2013 20: 51
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Yeah, for this you google and the prices of apartments in Kostanay.

                        actually there is no such city there is a city Kуget up
                        and about the prices, it’s enough to make a fool of a cool hacker, you have to go to the moon with cancer, and the analyst from you
                      19. -1
                        21 October 2013 22: 31
                        Quote: Lindon
                        And in general, say thank you to Georgian Stalin for taking him out of a century of backwardness.

                        Firstly, Stalin received his talents in the Russian Empire, and not in Georgia or Germany.
                        Secondly, Stalin is only a leader, but a talented one, but the labor of millions of Russians brought Russia out of "age-old backwardness".
                        Thirdly, there was no age-old backwardness.
                      20. +4
                        22 October 2013 08: 00
                        Young man.
                        Stalin received his diplomas in the prisons of your empire.
                        The age-old backwardness of Russia is a fact that the Bolsheviks ascertained when starting industrialization.
                        You need to read how the land was plowed, what agricultural machinery was used, what mechanization of labor was in the countryside. Russia was a backward agrarian country — the Bolsheviks made it a leading industrial power.
                        All this was done overcoming the resistance of the "dark" millions of Russian middle peasants and kulaks.
                      21. -3
                        22 October 2013 10: 18
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Russia was a backward agrarian country - the Bolsheviks made it a leading industrial power

                        I understand that Kazakhstan was an advanced power with great science, industry and culture? !!
                        it’s true that weapons were not made in the steppe, it was either bought or captured (I’ll immediately say this is the opinion of Kazakh historians), all the national costumes of Kazakhs are the result of the work of Soviet fashion designers, like most dances the work of Soviet choreographers, science - name at least one Kazakh scientist in Soviet times
                      22. +2
                        22 October 2013 10: 28
                        Don’t drive the snowstorm - you’ve lived in Russia for 5 years, and you have lived in Kazakhstan all your conscious life.
                        Do not pour your inner on everything around.
                        You taught the history of the Kazakh SSR at school, you yourself know the answers to your questions. Well, unless the last 5 years have fallen for you - but for these 5 years you have already watered Russia.
                      23. -1
                        22 October 2013 11: 03
                        firstly, we didn’t graze sheep together; secondly, everything that I wrote a post above is a scientific fact that is freely available, including in the museum of the republic
                      24. +3
                        22 October 2013 11: 57
                        Vasya, why do you write silly questions if you know where what lies?
                        You just want to show your erudition here?
                        We are not defective to show off here.
                        Write on business, no one needs your false epithets "advanced", "great."
                        I understand that Kazakhstan is not breathing evenly, that Russia has given you little lift - and that you don’t like everything there either?
                      25. -3
                        22 October 2013 14: 00
                        when I start, to deceive names and surnames, this is an ordinary kindergarten
                      26. volkodav
                        -4
                        22 October 2013 13: 36
                        You need to read how the land was plowed, what agricultural machinery was used, what mechanization of labor was in the countryside. Russia was a backward agrarian country — the Bolsheviks made it a leading industrial power.
                        you don’t tell this nonsense to anyone else, the Bolsheviks first ruined industry and agriculture, and then the proletariat and peasantry created everything again, the only thing they created from scratch is industry and agricultural production in Central Asia, which are smart Kazakhs and other Asians in the nation frenzy of the early 90s pros .... ali
                      27. +3
                        22 October 2013 14: 11
                        You mixed something up - on the contrary, we revived them, after the 90s. Yes, of course, collective farms have sunk into the past - now in their place agricultural holdings rule. A holy place is never empty.
                      28. +1
                        22 October 2013 16: 32
                        Quote: Lindon
                        All this was done overcoming the resistance of the "dark" millions of Russian middle peasants and kulaks.

                        This was done by the labor of millions of Russian middle peasants.
                      29. Alex Bugur
                        0
                        23 October 2013 07: 15
                        And about the fact that in 1913 the Russian Empire developed faster than anyone else in the world in economic and technological terms, of course, you did not know that ?!
                      30. +1
                        23 October 2013 09: 28
                        yeah, if you consider that before that almost everything was in the archaic of industry, then yes ... the plant produced 0 cars, began to produce 10 - 1000% increase!
                      31. +1
                        21 October 2013 17: 33
                        Correction! The Tsar Bell was cast during the reign of Anna Ioannovna 1730-1740gg.
                      32. 0
                        21 October 2013 17: 44
                        Quote: Djozz
                        Correction! The Tsar Bell was cast during the reign of Anna Ioannovna 1730-1740gg.


                        Yes, it’s time to send him back to school.
                        Still sitting here teaches us all - the ignoramus - the victim of Fursenko.
                      33. +2
                        21 October 2013 19: 24
                        A colleague, well, this donkey-tailed donkey, and you should know that the bell was cast by the master Alexander Grigoryev (1634-1676), and under Anna they only tried to pour it using the crowbar from the time of Godunov and naturally screwed it up.
                      34. R.R.A.
                        +5
                        21 October 2013 19: 00
                        I completely agree! And I will add that in Russia they knew how to cast iron in the 13th century, and in Europe they learned to cast iron only after 300 years ... And there are many such facts. Russia has a centuries-old history, but what can I say about the Kazakhs? The fact that, as such, Uzbeks, Kazakhs , the Kirghiz did not exist at all. There were separate tribes. Yes, and it is also worth looking at the textbook on the History of Kazakhstan, to find a paragraph on the formation of the Kazakh Khanate. It says that the great "ancestors" (Saki, etc.) were Caucasians, but soon acquired a Mongoloid appearance (what is it like the Evolution of Europeans into Mongols? Not one teacher could not answer this question, they threw everything off on the Mongol invasion, they say that we and the narrow-eyed got mixed up, I can't believe it, because it has long been proven that genes have the ability to cleanse).
                      35. 0
                        22 October 2013 12: 41
                        Didn’t exist? They probably fell from heaven? wassat
                        The Mongoloid appearance was acquired thanks to the Dzungarian brides in the 16-17th century, when the locals bought and bought them there. Well, the fact that the Kazakh Khanate was formed in the 15th century, you naturally did not see in the textbook? Or is it that the Turkic tribes, which constitute the ethnogenesis of the Kazakhs, existed on the territory of present-day Kazakhstan and were called Saks-Massagets and other Huns in ancient times?
                      36. R.R.A.
                        -3
                        22 October 2013 17: 52
                        Quote: Netrocker
                        Didn’t exist? They probably fell from heaven? wassat
                        The Mongoloid appearance was acquired thanks to the Dzungarian brides in the 16-17th century, when the locals bought and bought them there. Well, the fact that the Kazakh Khanate was formed in the 15th century, you naturally did not see in the textbook? Or is it that the Turkic tribes, which constitute the ethnogenesis of the Kazakhs, existed on the territory of present-day Kazakhstan and were called Saks-Massagets and other Huns in ancient times?

                        There were also wives of Aryan descent ...
                      37. +3
                        23 October 2013 09: 35
                        what nafig Aryans then ?! what are you talking about?
                      38. +2
                        21 October 2013 22: 27
                        Quote: Lindon
                        the presence of the Germans in the Russian state led to a significant increase in the cultural level

                        The cultural influence of the Germans from 1941 to 1945 was especially strong.
                      39. +2
                        21 October 2013 18: 51
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Again you have spaces. Enhance your education further.


                        but I don’t feel like raising the level of education! that's why they write all sorts of nonsense and are still surprised.
                      40. +10
                        21 October 2013 16: 09
                        Svyatoslav, Oleg, Mstislav entered into agreements with Byzantium in two languages ​​... Before Cyril and Methodius ...
                      41. Misantrop
                        +9
                        21 October 2013 17: 58
                        Quote: Lindon
                        What are you campaigning for here? Cyril and Methodius were Greeks - they developed the Cyrillic alphabet for all Slavic peoples. Do not invent your Russian alphabet.
                        What nonsense? They did NOT invent ANYTHING, any alphabet. They just adapted the Slavic alphabet for writing CHURCH texts and knocked out the permission of church hierarchs. Which was also not easy, I agree. That's just to the INVENTION Slavic writing has nothing to do request
                      42. +2
                        21 October 2013 22: 25
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Cyril and Methodius were Greeks - they developed the Cyrillic alphabet for all Slavic peoples.

                        Yeah, and the Germans wrote about this in historical books. Broad noodles.
                      43. Misantrop
                        +3
                        21 October 2013 22: 57
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Broad noodles.
                        And just a couple of years ago there was a funny confirmation of this. Here, in the Crimea. During the excavation of an ancient underground passage in the cave city of Mangup-Kale (neatly laid down by the builders themselves LATER before the Tatars arrived in Crimea and settled the Karaites whom they expelled there), an inscription was made on the ceiling made by some young dunce from toilers. Two female Slavic names written in Cyrillic. By a strange coincidence, just at that moment, a bunch of guests were present at the excavation site, including the local press, so the fake was EXCLUDED. It’s just that it DOESN’t fit in with the official history of the peninsula, that they try to hush up this fact with all their might ... request
                      44. +4
                        21 October 2013 14: 29
                        hrych So you admit that you are acting on the principle “what is allowed to Jupiter, then I will not allow the bull.” Did I understand you correctly? And by this you admit that you are wrong by definition, but by the right of the strong you everything is allowed. After that, are you surprised at the negative attitude towards you? In vain. What goes around comes around.
                      45. +4
                        21 October 2013 14: 54
                        A colleague, such is the world, the strongest rules and wins, there was a heresy about equality and brotherhood, but unfortunately failed miserably. I am a militarist and myself in uniform on this site primarily enjoy the achievements of our military-industrial complex. The most important thing is that all these negotiations and other idle talk will end in one massacre and the strongest will win.
                      46. 0
                        21 October 2013 15: 07
                        grunt. We have known this for a long time. What infuriates, how the Russians talk about JUSTICE, while they themselves admit that they profess the "law of the jungle." Look, on the plot about Elena, the minuses went again. Like, in vain she learned another language. She had to find fault and say, they say, they offend her, she would get advantages from members of the forum. laughing
                      47. +9
                        21 October 2013 15: 36
                        You know, Rauf, the funniest thing, but the right of the strongest, you Caucasians taught us (though you will probably regret it later), a new Russia was born in the Caucasus in the furnace of Chechnya and thanks to the death of Russian children from knives, including Azerbaijani, now there is an accelerated reformatting of state values ​​and the complete failure of multiculturalism and Eurasianism. Why does everyone hate the United States, but respect and fear, because they are not embarrassed by their strength and power, lack of oil, ruin the state and stupidly take it away, and we are still embarrassed by our strength and chew snot, although the only state capable of the United States reset to zero.
                      48. smersh70
                        +2
                        21 October 2013 15: 50
                        Quote: hrych
                        now there is an accelerated reformatting of state values

                        ..not the state, but some of the Muscovites laughing when I served near Leningrad ... so during the oath of oath to 2 Muscovites, the riflemen arrived, you would see the anger of other Russian boys in a platoon ... only then did I learn that Muscovites and many in their homeland are not chiselled ... but then the boys told the reason .....
                      49. +9
                        21 October 2013 16: 04
                        Manezh and Biryulyovo, of course, Muscovites, but Sagra, Kondopoga and Pugachev not. Our Eurasian-minded government in the election of the mayor of the capital has already compelled to play the national card and if it wants to remain in power (and its loss may be m. And, like Muamor), then the policy will change dramatically. In any case, the next generation of politicians will not be Eurasian, but national-minded. Thank you for this Caucasians and liberals for vaccination against multiculturalism in Russian people.
                      50. -2
                        21 October 2013 14: 37
                        And the Internet is American, so what? Whom to extort, rogue. We rode the USSR, now freak out that no one wants to fall under you. Even your brothers Ukrainians don’t want to do business with you, but you don’t have the strength to bend. Well, have been mad at commanding for half a century, and now no one is listening. laughing
                      51. +7
                        21 October 2013 14: 39
                        Quote: Kazbek
                        rogue.

                        gentlemen, Kazakhs, here is a direct example of Russophobia of the Kazakh
                      52. +5
                        21 October 2013 16: 59
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        gentlemen, Kazakhs, here is a direct example of Russophobia of the Kazakh

                        - well, it all started with your posts - earlier, a year ago, two years ago, I tried to calm you down, swallowing your posts about the fact "that Kazakhs do not know how to do anything and just about because of mediocre business they will have a humanitarian catastrophe, we will have to, Russians, save them again, blind and stupid! ", but all to no avail. As you post offended and offensive posts, so do post. And when there is a reply - so here
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        gentlemen, Kazakhs, here is a direct example of Russophobia of the Kazakh
                        .
                        In fact, it’s on emotions, Kazakhstan is already in the Customs Union, from January 1, 2014 you at least come, leave, at least import goods, at least do not import art through the Kazakh-Russian border - all is one, you do not need to draw up anything and pay, unless that they’ll check for drugs (well, alas, there’s no getting anywhere).
                        So the last time a request - post normal posts - we will not post this either. Why do we need this srach?
                      53. -2
                        21 October 2013 18: 17
                        Quote: aksakal
                        well, it all started with your posts - earlier, a year ago, two years ago, I tried to calm you down, swallowing your posts about the fact "that Kazakhs do not know how to do anything, and just about because of mediocre business they will have a humanitarian

                        You and your "colleagues" are so fond of attributing their conjectures to others that it tiresome, firstly, I never said a bad word about Kazakhs as a nationality, and secondly, if I spoke about problems with industry in Kazakhstan, I always confirmed my words with facts what can not be said about you
                        Quote: aksakal
                        Actually it's on emotions, Kazakhstan

                        but what have the emotions got tired, rudeness and insult to Russia and Russia
                      54. +1
                        21 October 2013 14: 59
                        If the Internet was Kazakh, then it would be gorgeous, and we will, so sorry, have business with the Americans, including and on the issue of whether or not to be Kazakhstan.
                      55. +4
                        22 October 2013 12: 48
                        Quote: hrych
                        and so we will, sorry, have business with the Americans, incl. and on the issue of whether or not to be Kazakhstan.


                        And often you are advised with Americans to whom genocide? Some sort of Cortes! crying
                      56. +3
                        21 October 2013 15: 02
                        I have been on business trips both in Ukraine and in Russia on business. But in Ukraine I have never heard such remarks as "come in large numbers", "black ... e". Although I did not sell anything or hooligan. This shows the LEVEL of society. If you don't like migrants, close the border, drive everyone out. Who's stopping you? And the fact that no article, then screams about migrant dominance. Get out and that's it. If you don’t expel, then you don’t want to mean.
                      57. +6
                        21 October 2013 15: 19
                        Meanwhile, the government, with its next Eurasian heresy, is interfering, but under pressure from the people, it is already forced to take anti-migrant measures. In general, Russia already has enough heresies, it is necessary to strengthen the army (to build muscles, which is actually being done) to be evil and aggressive, only so will the respect of the neighbors, the rest is regarded as weakness. In Transcaucasia, a typical example was the ceremony with the Georgians, brought to the point that they just started shooting at the Russian peacekeepers, but as they cut the silence and bites off, the attitude changed right away and you even looked at the States, and China became its best friend.
                      58. smersh70
                        +1
                        21 October 2013 15: 54
                        Quote: hrych
                        on the other hand, as silence and ties were bitten so, the attitude immediately changed

                        and what happened to the Netherlands .... wassatsay their prince lately has eaten a lot of roses in front of the barrels of the Kaliningrad coast guard brigade ... smile ...
                      59. +6
                        21 October 2013 16: 13
                        And, you noticed that after a disrespectful relationship with our diplomat, they were hung up on theirs, as in the good old days, "you are for me, I am for you," and then everyone apologizes to each other. Well, the destruction of the Georgian army and navy, the dismemberment and occupation of the country and the slightly frightened diplomat are not quite commensurate things.
                      60. essenger
                        +1
                        22 October 2013 12: 48
                        Quote: hrych
                        Ceremonial ceremony with the Georgians, brought to the point that they began to simply shoot at Russian peacekeepers

                        The main mistake of the Georgians is that they let your "peacekeepers" go there.
                      61. +3
                        21 October 2013 15: 27
                        Tell me, are there many migrants from Asia in Ukraine?
                      62. smersh70
                        0
                        21 October 2013 15: 45
                        Quote: hrych
                        if an unfriendly step towards our Russian alphabet,

                        .and did the Cyrillic alphabet come up with Russian smile then let the Greeks first hate the Kazakhs laughing
                        Quote: hrych
                        rather, it all began with Sumgait and Ferghana.

                        it all started with Armenian separatism in Karabakh .... only 20 years have passed ... but you already forget ... you need to know the chronology))))
                      63. +4
                        21 October 2013 15: 55
                        The Armenians have their own truth and their own chronology, who started the pogroms and who continued for the Russians, the difference is not big, but the beginning of the end of the USSR - these events. In general, I am a supporter of the "conspiracy theory" and for me all events have a plan, especially if they exactly coincide with the "Dulles plan" on nationalism in the republics.
                      64. smersh70
                        +2
                        21 October 2013 16: 17
                        Quote: hrych
                        Armenians have their own truth and their own chronology,

                        this is exactly what you noticed ... your laughing
                        Quote: hrych
                        especially if they exactly coincide with the "Dulles plan" on nationalism in the republics.

                        ..and who doubts this ..... just like that the USSR certainly didn’t fall apart ... did it ...... so where did the central authorities look ... mainly Gorbachev and the Slavs-leaders ..... because it’s precisely verified ones, such as Heydar Aliyev or Kunaev .. that’s the back of the leaders, retired .... after all, look, I’ll leave the topic a bit - it was Aliyev who left in October88, and the Armenians started in February 89 ..... the chronology is clear ...
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. +4
                      21 October 2013 22: 18
                      Quote: xetai9977
                      Just why do you recognize such a right among Russians in Russia, and citizens of other states should not care about themselves, their language on the part of citizens of these same states of Russian nationality?

                      You know, nations that owe so much to Russians could treat Russians more loyally. So far, they have spit on the Russians.
                      Quote: xetai9977
                      We must remember that the time of empires has passed.

                      How did we miss such an event?
                  3. -11
                    21 October 2013 14: 25
                    Did you not blame the (Russian) Americans for their exceptionalism, Hitler with his Aryanism, and you yourself do not see logs in your imperial eye. fellow
                    1. +2
                      21 October 2013 14: 27
                      Look at yourself! RUSSOPHOBE!
                    2. R.R.A.
                      -1
                      21 October 2013 18: 38
                      Do not you blame the Russians for fascism and chauvinism, and you quietly hate the Uzbeks
                      Quote: Lindon
                      Quote: Djozz
                      Correction! The Tsar Bell was cast during the reign of Anna Ioannovna 1730-1740gg.


                      Yes, it’s time to send him back to school.
                      Still sitting here teaches us all - the ignoramus - the victim of Fursenko.

                      Victim of UNTe.
                    3. bilgesez
                      -5
                      21 October 2013 20: 02
                      The main strength of us Russians is great-power chauvinism. We will grind everything and the world will be ours.
                  4. Asan Ata
                    +2
                    22 October 2013 00: 20
                    I would say that it is not the Russian people that create empires, but their rulers, usually non-Russians, study your history.
                    1. R.R.A.
                      -3
                      22 October 2013 18: 02
                      Quote: Asan Ata
                      I would say that it is not the Russian people that create empires, but their rulers, usually non-Russians, study your history.

                      Yes, yes, yes. I would also write that Peter the 1st was a Kazakh, etc. Yes, and the pillars of power are the people, so it’s not necessary. What kind of power is such a people, which we see at the moment in Russia ( and not only, in fact, all over the planet) the Russian people are asleep, the government is robbing at this time, well, nothing, we'll wake up. As the paratroopers sang: "We will rise from hell like a phoenix from the ashes! Because we are Russians!"
                      PS Read Bismarck quotes about Russians.
                      1. -2
                        22 October 2013 19: 18
                        Quote: R.R.A.
                        Yes, yes, yes. I would also write that Peter the 1st was a Kazakh, etc.

                        You forgot Ivan the Terrible, he is also probably the hereditary Ataturk.
                      2. +2
                        28 October 2013 11: 41
                        The funny thing is, but you’re almost right, he was a descendant of the Beklyakbek Mamai, well, who still brought the Genoese to Kulikovo Field! feel
                3. Asan Ata
                  +1
                  22 October 2013 00: 18
                  We are waiting, but all is some kind of trifle pot-bellied. lol
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. +9
                21 October 2013 15: 43
                here it is and the whole point, these citizens of the "non-indigenous" nationality built cities and created industry, and now they are not owners, but like, at best, guests, but in some places and "occupiers", especially if they own property in a good place, for some reason- then the "new owners" who inherited the inheritance from the USSR immediately wrote it down at their own expense, it is clear that history is immediately rewritten under the new owners, and the city that was built by the forces of the Komsomol construction projects arose on the site of 7 auls or at the crossroads of caravan routes, or for example, the port city of Turkmenbashi (Krasnovodsk) traces its ancestry from the Turkmen settlement of the UFRA (by the way - the Fortified Fort of the Russian Army).
              5. +9
                21 October 2013 16: 00
                you my friend forget that most of the Russian living in Kazakhstan are not migrants. This is their same country as the Kazakhs. And they should have no less rights than the Kazakhs. And posts in the civil service should be distributed more proportionally with respect to the population - citizens of Kazakhstan. In the meantime, there is discrimination on nat. featured. Russians need to unite and defend their rights, and not hope that Russia will do it for them ...
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  21 October 2013 16: 42
                  the bulk of Russian Kazakhstanis appeared in the second half of the 20th century. let's not attach the current Russians to a handful of Cossacks or runaway Old Believers, who really settled in the Kazakh steppe for a long time. back in the sunset of the 19th century, Russians were in Kazakhstan with a gulkin nose, and only during the Stolypin reform did the first civil Russians in the form of landless peasants from Little Russia and Voronezh. And they did not come at the request of the Kazakhs, but graters between the settlers, who, with the help of soldiers and Cossacks, took the land from the Kazakhs, poured into a famous meat grinder of 1916. the second wave of settlement was already in the Soviet years, when industrial policy (and later virgin land) was being implemented.
                  Kazakhs in Russia are indigenous people. They have been living in the Astrakhan or Omsk region since ancient times, when the ancestors of the Russians did not even think to go beyond the Volga or the Urals.
                  Quote: MstislavHrabr
                  This is their same country as the Kazakhs. And they should have no less rights than the Kazakhs.

                  Who can argue with that? They have as many rights as the rest. The Kazakhs have more responsibilities, because the titular nation should provide comfort for the entire country, and, accordingly, for all ethnic groups. In addition to Russians, there are also Germans, Uighurs, Uzbeks, Koreans, Caucasians, and Dungans. Moreover, some peoples are much more "indigenous" than the Russians. But I have not heard that a Dungan, Uighur or Uzbek demanded any special privileges in relation to themselves. Are Uzbeks, Uighurs worse than Russians? Why do they not have the right to claim their language as the state language? The Russians are demanding. By the way, Uzbeks are the third largest ethnic group in KZ.

                  Quote: MstislavHrabr
                  And posts in the civil service should be distributed more proportionally with respect to the population - citizens of Kazakhstan.
                  Complete nonsense. Positions should be held by those who meet all the requirements for a candidate, and not under a "minority quota". If you have a head, you will break out into people without a quota. No head - no quota will help you become a respected person.
                  In addition, you want to teach Kazakhstan in this regard - then first in your government give posts to Kazakhs, of whom there are a million people in Russia, and all of them are autochthonous residents of the Russian Federation. One Aman Tuleyev reached the level of governor. And even then his people elected, and not the Kremlin authorities pulled out.
                  By the way, when Aman Tuleyev ran for president of the Russian Federation, no one except Tyumen and the Kazakhs voted for him. What are you doing with a normal governor? Muzzle did not come out to be the Russian president? Or will you say that Yeltsin and Zyuganov are better than Tuleev as managers? ))))
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +4
                    21 October 2013 16: 47
                    Quote: MstislavHrabr
                    In the meantime, there is discrimination on nat. featured.
                    In what? The fact that the Russians do not join the army and do not want to learn the Kazakh language, and then do not get into state bodies? This is a jamb of Ivan, not Myrkymbay. For some reason, Koreans, Uighurs, Germans do not try to infringe on us at all. Only the Slavs are oppressed. They, panimaesh, are uncomfortable when Kazakhs around speak their native language. Genocide is just some.


                    Quote: MstislavHrabr
                    Russians need to unite and assert their rights
                    All "Russian organizations" in Kazakhstan were engaged in cutting dough from the Russian budget for "the development of culture and protection of the rights of compatriots." As soon as their organizations stopped receiving grants from Moscow, their leaders in full force left for Russia with good belongings.
                    The rights of Russians, Kazakhs or Dungans are protected within the framework of protecting the rights of a citizen of Kazakhstan, and not on ethnic grounds. We have banned the creation of the "Russian Party" and banned the creation of the "Kazakh Party". There is nothing to scratch with us that does not itch. And if you want to comb until it bleeds, then go anywhere and comb there.
                    1. volkodav
                      -5
                      22 October 2013 14: 00
                      Well, if so, then you probably need the northern regions of Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation (RSFSR) to return and expel nafig all aching Slavs hi
                      1. +2
                        28 October 2013 11: 51
                        Ignoramus! Kazakhstan has never received anything from Russia! You need to know the history, and not repeat the chauvinistic nonsense like a parrot after idiots ... For your information, the exact opposite is the case - it was originally Kazakh lands, such as Orenburg with the region and others ... that Orenburg was the first capital of Kazakhstan once upon a time.
            2. 0
              21 October 2013 12: 24
              Quote: Essenger
              In the national question in Russia, things are worse. Fascism blooms there

              the differences in situations are huge, the main attitude of the authorities towards this problem, in the Republic of Kazakhstan they pretend that this is not the case in the Russian Federation, on the contrary, they try (successfully or there is no other question) what to do
              1. essenger
                +5
                21 October 2013 12: 30
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                the main attitude of the authorities towards this problem, in the Republic of Kazakhstan they pretend that this is not the case in the Russian Federation, on the contrary, they try (successfully or there is no other question) what to do

                C'mon, is the Russian government fighting this? laughing Do you really think that these leaders of the Nazi groups are independent and not controlled by the FSB?
                1. 0
                  21 October 2013 12: 34
                  ok or not, but unlike the National Academy of Sciences of Russia, the Russian president clearly spoke out about such actions
                  1. essenger
                    +1
                    21 October 2013 13: 22
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    but unlike the National Academy of Sciences of Russia, the Russian president clearly spoke out about such actions

                    everybody knows how to wag
                    1. +1
                      21 October 2013 13: 30
                      better silently encourage Natsik
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    21 October 2013 13: 27
                    Nazarbayev and officials are already tired of exaggerating the topic. We do not have a national question. Only in the head of some.
                    We have a language problem. This is constantly said. And by and large, this is constantly being said for the good of the Russian speakers. In 10-15 years, the Kazakh language will dominate in the professional field. The question is competitiveness. If the Russian Kazakhstani considers himself a professional, then tomorrow he will come on his heels Kazakh-speaking competitor, equal in professionalism, but with knowledge of several languages. Who will win this race? Essno, the one who speaks Russian, and Kazakh, and English. Kazakhs learned Russian, now they learn English. Russian Kazakhstanis do not learn either one or the other, because if anything - they can go to Russia. I’m only afraid that in Russia they will face strong competitors in the professional niche.
                    To prevent such a situation from happening in the future, the government teaches all three languages ​​to the new generation from kindergarten. And the students themselves understand that language proficiency is an advantage both domestically and internationally. We have the topic of creating a "competitive nation" - part of the state ideology. Therefore, despite the fair criticism regarding the quality of education, one cannot but admit that the government pays increased attention to this, strengthens universities, allocates grants and loans, and sends the best schoolchildren and students abroad.
                    I have already cited on the site excerpts from European newspapers, where the British are no longer laughing when they see that schoolchildren from the "country of Borat" at international Olympiads tear the British like a hot water bottle. Despite the fact that Kazakhstanis are 10 times less than Russians, we are not much behind Russia in the number of gold medals at international school Olympiads. And the most striking thing is that the winners of the Olympiads are mainly schoolchildren of schools with the Kazakh language of instruction, although 10-15 years ago Kazakh schools were synonymous with backward schools, even by Kazakh standards.
                    We need the best, most intelligent citizens. No matter what nationality. Everyone who is unable to rebuild, learn, think logically - let them go wherever they want. Kazakhstanis should become the most educated and competitive nation in the world. This is not pathos, this is the official state policy of Kazakhstan. We are few, so we must take the quality of human resources.
                    Z.Y. And if it bothers you that Nazarbayev allegedly hides language and national topics, then this is all from your ignorance. Each year, Nazarbayev speaks out on these issues.
                    1. +4
                      21 October 2013 13: 59
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      We do not have a national question. Only in the head of some.

                      expresses concern about the growing propaganda of xenophobia and radical nationalism in the media and social networks of the Republic of Kazakhstan, as well as in connection with attempts to falsify history and heroize the Turkestan Legion ("East Turkic Union") of the SS and other Nazi accomplices during the Second World War.

                      The frankly xenophobic campaign, which has recently been carried out on the pages of a number of print media and on the Kazakhstani Internet, is outrageous. Its purpose is to incite ethnic hatred in the republic. Especially dangerous and unacceptable we consider the spread
                      http://online.zakon.kz/Document/?doc_id=31334411
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +5
                        21 October 2013 15: 14
                        Fuck knows what kind of "international human rights" organization wrote this letter, accusing the Kazakhs of glorifying fascism. these people collapsed with an oak tree. we do not have the Baltics, not Western Ukraine and not even Russia. any neo-Nazi here would have their head shoved into a seated organ in a minute.
                        there is no propaganda of xenophobia and nationalism in the media! it’s a dumb lie of the authors to embellish your letter and give it tragedy.

                        As for the activities of Mustafa Shokay, the man who stood at the origins of the Turkestan battalion (but not in the form the Germans wanted), he was not a "fascist" at all. His task in the summer of 1941 was to rescue Turkic relatives from German concentration camps. At the same time, he categorically rejected the idea of ​​using them as a fighting unit against the Red Army, in which other Kazakhs and other Turks served. And when he saw with his own eyes how the Nazis treated Soviet prisoners of war, he wrote a letter to the Foreign Minister of the Third Reich SS Gruppenfuehrer Joachim von Ribbentrop: "... Seeing how the representatives of the nation, which raised such geniuses as Goethe, Feuerbach, Bach, Beethoven, Schopenhauer, treat prisoners of war, I cannot accept the offer to lead the Turkestan Legion and refuse further cooperation. I understand all the consequences of my decision."
                        And a couple of months later, he "suddenly" died in the hospital.
                        Can we call him a Nazi? Personally, I deeply respect the courage of this man who refused to cooperate with the Nazis even for the sake of his main goal in life - the independence of Kazakhstan. All his life he conducted propaganda against Bolshevism (but not against Russians or anyone else), he was ready to die for the freedom of Kazakhstan, but he gave the unequivocal answer that the freedom of Kazakhstan could not be made by Nazi hands.

                        As for the Turkestan legion itself, there is no heroization. But Kazakhs have nothing to be ashamed of. Turkestan legionaries, unlike any ROA, did not stain themselves with fratricide and betrayal. And if you knew the history of each battalion of TH, you would have noticed that almost all of the battalions of Turk.Legion and Idel-Ural distinguished themselves in rebellion against the Germans and / or a massive transfer with arms in their hands to the side of the Red Army and partisans.
                        Z.Y. Musa Jalil, the famous Tatar poet executed by fascists in the Moabit prison, was an official in one of such battalions. They executed him for it, the Germans found that in the Turkic battalions of the Wehrmacht the communist party cells were almost completely restored as in units of the Red Army, and Musa Jalil and many other commanders of these battalions were the leaders of these party cells.
                        It was the stubborn reluctance of the Türks to go on betrayal and fight with their own forces that made the Germans abandon the idea of ​​using them on the eastern front and transfer them first to Yugoslavia and then to the Atlantic Val.
                        There is no reason to be ashamed of the "Turkestanis". And the "East Turkic SS unit" existed only on paper. Although how do the bawlers from "human rights organizations" know this?
                      2. -2
                        21 October 2013 15: 31
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Fuck knows what kind of "international human rights"

                        but who would doubt it doesn’t fit into your concept, type Kazakh nationalism in no
            3. gen-48
              0
              21 October 2013 15: 58
              This is how they filled your head with the history of the "great Kazakh people". How long ago did the representatives of the "mighty zhuzes" learn how to use a spoon and stop wiping off a robe? And Russia is a big country, everywhere it blooms at different times. If 150 million slanting neighbors will move to you, then it will be clear that you will flourish. Read smart books and go to bed at 22-00.
              1. Marek Rozny
                +4
                21 October 2013 16: 55
                gen-48, if you don't know anything about Kazakhs, then what is your exhaust? your knowledge at the level of an American "Russia is a country of drunken people with machine guns who walk the streets with bears."
                and the Chinese do not scare us. we have known them for several thousand years. and these are not my ancestors, but the ancestors of the Chinese raked in all wars. and you go outside and first make a remark to the Dagestan if he breaks the rules of conduct.
                Watch your Far East. But Kazakhs do not need to be taught how to communicate with the Chinese.
                1. gen-48
                  -5
                  21 October 2013 19: 25
                  Exhaust happens at the exhaust pipes of cars. Since he already lived in the USA, well, accordingly, you have knowledge of Kazakhs at the level of "... touching Kazakh women with iPods walk around Tselinograd and Ekibastuz and wink at tanned Kazakhs passing by (not on a camel, not on a horse), and by car !!!. Babay, he and Ekibastuz -babay. Dumplings need to be harvested, but more. By the way, Medeo will soon be closed, because advanced Kazakhs are skating with 6 blades. The Far East will look after the East, the people there are strong. You look after the Mexicans, suddenly tomorrow instead of a skullcap you go buy a sombrero (.. and you won't just learn Spanish, there are only 5 vowels).
                  1. +4
                    22 October 2013 13: 13
                    Well, you definitely went crazy already on the slogans of the Movement Against Illegal Immigration ... winked
            4. +3
              21 October 2013 22: 09
              Quote: Essenger
              On the national question in Russia, things are worse. Fascism blooms there.

              Please write a list of nations oppressed in Russia! Unless of course you are a liar.
              1. essenger
                +4
                22 October 2013 12: 54
                Quote: Setrac
                Quote: Essenger
                On the national question in Russia, things are worse. Fascism blooms there.

                Please write a list of nations oppressed in Russia! Unless of course you are a liar.


                All Finno-Ugric, Caucasian, Turkic peoples who live under Russian occupation. Enough?
                1. -4
                  22 October 2013 13: 43
                  are you friends with the brain or do you have a final divorce from him? !!!!
                  1. essenger
                    +3
                    22 October 2013 13: 59
                    Vasilenko
                    Essentially have what? or really they themselves asked them to occupy?
                    1. -4
                      22 October 2013 14: 03
                      so you essentially haven’t said anything yet, about the Caucasus, so you’re so in a puddle .. that it’s not even worth talking
                      1. +5
                        22 October 2013 14: 21
                        I mean, you need to list it by nationality? Yes, please: Dargins, Laks, Karachais, Balkars, Kumyks, Avars, Chechens, Ingush, etc. Themselves probably watched in the subway how every cop loves to get to the bottom of them .. and the main thing is that you don't understand right away - whether it really is on the guard of the "law on registration in Moscow", or just decided to cut the dough ... wink
              2. +6
                22 October 2013 13: 21
                For example, the Caucasus-and what is far to go? How many forums I do not look through - everywhere there is a howl about Caucasians. Then why don't you shut yourself off from them? Well, send them all back to the Caucasus and close the border to them and forget about them as a problem! Yet it’s easy to do ... After all, as it turns out, the Dagestan wins Olympic gold - he is a Russian champion! And how he appeared in Moscow - so he’s chock black ... I ...
          3. 0
            21 October 2013 09: 33
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Russians have a peculiar perspective, noticing Kazakhs in Mercedes without noticing the masses of Kazakhs working on rough work. And these Kazakhs, unlike the Russians, have no opportunity to "run away" with cries of "we are being oppressed" ..

            - and this is the stereotype of the Russians - the Kazakh is ignorant and ignorant by default, and therefore
            Quote: Alibekulu
            masses of Kazakhs working on rough work
            - this is normal! But when Kazakh
            Quote: Alibekulu
            on mercedes

            - this is ABNORMAL and this Kazakh was definitely able to earn a Mercedes only by killing, harassing or robbing some Russian.
            Well, yes, yesterday we just got off the trees, we can’t ride a Merc, here the presumption of guilt automatically works.
            And yet - Russians now have double standards. Despite the fact that they have been in Russia for a long time (by the way, it is CORRECT and I SUPPORT THIS!) And are insistently asking for the right to be a TITLE nation with all the consequences, there were a lot of posts about it yesterday, and the situation in Biryulyovo already yells about it, but at the same time, the Russians would very much like to refuse to be titular to their own neighbors. But this does not happen. Either the Russians are breaking into their right in Russia to be the titular nation (once again - I am for IT and I will welcome it!), But then all this must be recognized by other CIS countries as well. I'm right? This is IMHO.
            And further -
            Quote: Ascetic
            and in line with Anglo-Saxon politics

            - Ascetic, as always, is very reasonable, but here how "Anglo-Saxon"? For example, the film "Vysotsky. Thank you for being alive!" all Uzbek characters are simply disgusting to death, especially the driver. For re-verification when comparing with real facts, not a single fact from this film regarding Uzbeks is CONFIRMED! And now - almost all the creators of this film - are representatives of an interesting ethnic group, with one of whom, Atalef, I fiercely argued yesterday over Albats. He asked, like, okay with the Russians, we'll figure it out ourselves, you Kazakhs, what has it to do with it? So excuse us, "blacks", who is raising the wave here? Besides this film, do you have more facts? And why should we have nothing to do with it, if the wave, moreover undeservedly and absolutely slanderous, rises precisely against us by the "atalephs"? And to what extent is this "Anglo-Saxon" policy? I suspect that the Anglo-Saxons are just as oppressed as a nation, just not realizing it because of the pain reliever called "high consumption."
            1. +9
              21 October 2013 12: 41
              Quote: aksakal
              And to what extent is this "Anglo-Saxon" policy? I suspect that the Anglo-Saxons are just as oppressed as a nation, just not realizing it because of the pain reliever called "high consumption."


              Aksakal, here I give a link to my own comment
              link
              Here is an excerpt about Anglo-Saxons and who steers in America
              the highest ruling caste of the Anglo-Saxon “priests of democracy” and Jewish interest bankers with black president Barack Obama in service.

              As for Kazakhstan and other CIS countries, I do not see any subject of mutual reproaches regarding the study of a particular language. If my sister left for France after being expelled from fraternal Tajikistan in the early 90s, she learned the language because she was going to live there, and now she even speaks Russian with an accent, adult nephews do not speak although they understand, and grandchildren do not understand they don’t speak. So here
              if he wants Russian to connect his and his children’s fate and life with Kazakhstan, he will learn the language, and if not, then why the hell he needs it in essence. Like in the Baltic states, my relative, the director of the school in Estonia, learned the same language and lives there calmly, despite being 10 years old, seeking citizenship. And my classmate, a Georgian ethnic born in Ukraine, taught a special course in Latvian at the Police Academy in Riga. Therefore it is the business of your people does he need the Russian language or not, If not, close Russian-language schools, newspapers, books, TV and so on, You will have a single language in France (they don’t even accept English) for everyone regardless of nationality, If you need it, then determine its status at least in Ukraine, That's all things.
              In general, there is the USA, China and Russia with whom you learn the language along the way, my advice is like in a joke
              An optimist teaches English, a pessimist - Chinese, a realist studies a Kalashnikov assault rifle. I’ll add Turkish as an adventurer.
              So it’s better to study Kalashnikov’s assault rifle with us and learn the Russian language. Both of these may come in handy soon. With a population of just over 16 million (in fact, Moscow and St. Petersburg), they can hold such a large territory and master it as if not without anyone else’s help.
              1. +2
                21 October 2013 13: 26
                Quote: Ascetic
                If not, close Russian-language schools, newspapers, books, TV and more,

                - even if one of those in power and those who are not in power would really like this, nothing will come of it. IT'S JUST UNREALIBLE IN THE NEXT 50 YEARS! Without mutual reproaches, but simply tired of pounding water in a mortar and constantly listening to reproaches for the oppression of both the Russian language and the Russians - the refusal of the Russian language in Kaazkhstan is UNREAL in itself, hence the unreality and non-existence of the “Russian” problem in Kazakhstan. I dont know. why is he being woken up in Kazakhstan? The Russians themselves, now living in Kaliningrad, not a single one accuse the Kazakhs of nationalism and oppression on the basis of nationality. But they are accused of a low level of culture ("Oh, God, you can walk barefoot in Kaliningrad! It's impossible in Kazakhstan - everything is spat upon!"), Poor health care and education, well, not bad, but worse than in Russia, and all this, to Unfortunately, there is a place to be. But let's close the topic of nationalism - we do not have it! Simply not! We are a multi-national power, we have a hundred nationalities, and only Russians are being oppressed! Well, you must.
                1. +2
                  21 October 2013 16: 50
                  Quote: aksakal
                  . I dont know. Why is it being awakened in Kazakhstan?


                  Well, you yourself before answered my question, why and who needs it? No Russians, Kazakhs? I doubt it ... Cui prodest?
                  1. +2
                    21 October 2013 17: 06
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    Well, you yourself before answered my question, why and who needs it? No Russians, Kazakhs? I doubt it ... Cui prodest?

                    - Ascetic, once again my respect to you! Perhaps I am quick-tempered and sometimes overly emotional when some feelings hurt, but I can't help but express my respect to you. Weighted and very reasonable, exactly as the Kazakh Russian-speaking poet Olzhas Suleimenov dreamed of - "to raise the steppe without humiliating the mountains!"
                    At work, your links do not open, but I will definitely read at home.
                  2. +6
                    22 October 2013 13: 30
                    ... this is beneficial to those to whom our vehicle is like a bone in the throat ... and judging by the chauvinistic boorish posts of some "non-comrades", their plans are being realized ...
          4. -2
            21 October 2013 12: 22
            Quote: Alibekulu
            For some reason, seeing Kazakhs in positions, they do not at all point to see Kazakhs who live below the poverty line, where Kazakhs are beyond competition ...

            the problem is not in the Kazakhs in power, but in relation to this very power to manifestations of national intolerance.
            when every day you come across this will not you think about it
            1. +5
              22 October 2013 13: 32
              Vladimir! Have you mixed up anything? It’s always there that some nationalist graters with victims take place there, and not in Kazakhstan ...
              1. -5
                22 October 2013 14: 17
                Quote: Netrocker
                It’s always there that some nationalist graters with victims take place there, and not in Kazakhstan ...

                everyone spoke about these graters, as you put it, from the first person of the state to the last janitor, no one is silent or trying to hide them, they are and this is a problem.
                at the same time, in the Republic of Kazakhstan everyone pretends that there is no national problem.
                another question is that this does not solve the existing problem, but only drives it inside and when it explodes, no one will seem.
                1. +3
                  22 October 2013 14: 29
                  Vladimir! In our country, unlike Russia, people are not killed for the 5th column. I don't have any nationalities in my department, even there is an "exotic" Belarusian, the head of the department is a crest from Kiev, a former air defense major-shnik stayed here - everything is working fine. So you still see the psychosis of the 90s does not pass ...
                  1. -4
                    22 October 2013 15: 15
                    listen, stop talking nonsense, and in the RK young animals from the aul may well go to Russian and everything may end not so well
                    1. +4
                      22 October 2013 16: 50
                      This young growth will then be steamed on the bunks and at the same time very fast! I don’t know how in other cities of KZ, but I have no problems with this here in Almaty. Naturally, at night they can be pressed somewhere in a dark place, but this will be excuse me just a gop-stop, believe them they won’t look at your passport, they’re interested in something else ... So you’re talking nonsense ... request
                      1. -4
                        22 October 2013 17: 06
                        Yes, the problem is that this hop-stop with a national touch.
                        dear, I have often come across a situation where a remark made to a Kazakh instantly grew into insults and claims that they say I am an impudent person on a foreign land and have the audacity to express dissatisfaction
          5. +2
            21 October 2013 22: 04
            Quote: Alibekulu
            For some reason, seeing Kazakhs in positions, they do not at all point to see Kazakhs who live below the poverty line, where Kazakhs are beyond competition ...

            Seeing Kazakhs in positions, they do not see Russians in positions in Kazakhstan.
            1. +3
              22 October 2013 08: 14
              Learn Kazakh and hold positions.
              You can’t occupy a position without knowledge of Russian in Russia.
              At least turn on the brains. Giving posts just because he is Russian?
              Is that why Russia and Russians have such an image that bears walk the streets? Because the mentality is still medieval.
              1. -3
                22 October 2013 16: 40
                Quote: Lindon
                At least turn on the brains. Giving posts just because he is Russian?

                He included his brains, not to give the post just because he is Russian.
                Quote: Lindon
                Because the mentality is still medieval.

                Ha, and what is the mentality of Western nations? Which allows them to kill and rob, deceive and destroy entire countries and peoples? And what is the mentality of the Kazakhs?
        3. -5
          21 October 2013 09: 02
          Quote: BlackScorp
          And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination on the basis of nationality and language (including for Kazakhs), it is just that it is not customary to talk about this in Kazakhstan ... In the article, some "Expert" says something about commercial structures , in which there is supposedly one Slavic ethnic group, but for some reason it is silent about the obligation of each enterprise to hire Kazakhs, which is controlled by akimats of all levels, about the fact that the courts, prosecutor's office, police, banks, etc., etc., are 95% Kazakhs and not because of the absence of other candidates ..

          - Sorry, you're really PIZDISH! Well, come to Kazakhstan, I’ll post, I will find the funds, I will also find the feed, find me the mass facts
          Quote: BlackScorp
          And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination based on nationality and language (including for Kazakhs),

          - and what is it expressed in?
          But I can prove that on my land they tacitly discriminate against me to this day on the basis of national characteristics. Simply by default, it is considered that Russian, all other things being equal, is a more qualified specialist, although in practice this is far from being the case! Moreover, this is by default considered in all structures - both state and non-state. And it is from the Slavs that advertisements for the employment of "only persons of Slavic appearance are received mainly. Persons with non-Slavic appearance, please do not worry!" And this is absolute discrimination, and it is being done insolently in relation to Kazakhs on Kazakhstani soil.
          I am silent about how sharply the chances of people of Slavic nationality to make a career only for mastering the Kazakh language sharply increase. Slavic journalists (albeit on condition of an attractive appearance, but there's nothing to be done - format!) Appearance with knowledge of the Kazakh language has completely replaced the Kazakh journalist with appearance no worse. But what about yak? - fashion & exotic. Only the Russians themselves do not take these chances.
          The real reason is “More than 20 years have passed since the creation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, but they still did not adapt to the new cultural and demographic realities. They almost always choose an isolation strategy, live in their own world. Moreover, this trend continues and even intensifies. It has long been not uncommon that commercial companies are almost entirely composed of representatives of Slavic ethnic groups. But you can’t live like that for a long time. The face of Kazakhstan is changing. Kazakh speech is heard more and more on the streets, the number of Kazakhs is growing, and this is another reason for the discomfort for the Russian population. The familiar environment is changing. It becomes Asian, Muslim. For all 20 years of the new country’s existence, practically nothing has been done to resolve this situation, except for spells on stability and international peace”And this: The first is the lack of prospects. They do not see a future here for themselves and their children, since the system built in Kazakhstan leaves no hope for this, and especially for the possibility of self-realization. Secondly, the situation in the country in recent years is unstable - both in the economic and political spheres. Inadequate mechanisms for ensuring social justice; legal protection institutions do not work - although, to be honest, I consider these reasons shameful, but not as much as the persecution of Russians on a national basis.
          1. 0
            21 October 2013 09: 03
            And how many such facts: you invite such Russians to share the celebration, for the sake of it, even if there are not many of them, you ask the toastmaster to conduct the entire celebration in Russian, ask the toastmaster to “Russify” as much as possible - and all the same these guests are sitting “out of place”, as if local Kazakhs will grunt another hundred grams and go to cut them, although no one was going to do this, they look at the whole celebration with a beech and then post unpleasant posts on social networks, like the food is so-so, the toastmaster sucks, the show-off is above the roof (well, it's true) , and full of "mambets" (this is the contemptuous name of the Kazakhs-villagers). Do you know how annoying it is? Indeed, in Kazakhstan, Kazakhs and Russians crossed little, Kazakhs lived in auls and were a tiny minority in cities and vice versa. With the collapse of the USSR and, accordingly, a sharp deterioration in living conditions in the countryside, the urbanization of Kazakhs began sharply, which led to a change in the cultural landscape in the cities of Kazakhstan. There is no ethnic persecution, it is just that Russians are uncomfortable. But nothing can be done about it, this is an inevitable process. Well, Kazakhs, when moving to a city, cannot instantly learn perfectly the Russian language, change the color of the skin with a cut of the eyes and master the grip of a Russian peasant perfectly. And who said that they are obliged to do this?
            1. +6
              21 October 2013 17: 56
              Quote: aksakal
              and all the same, these guests are sitting "not at ease", as if the local Kazakhs would grunt another hundred grams and go to cut them, although no one was going to do this, they look at the whole celebration with a beech and then post unpleasant posts on social networks, like, food is so-so, toastmaster sucks, show-off above the roof (well, it's true), and full of "mambets"

              Well I do not know request I go to Kazakh and Uzbek Toi with pleasure (I will crack the Kazi ... smile ) I had relatives visiting, from Russia, they brought me an invitation to the wedding, I'm supposedly not comfortable, I have guests. Without hesitation, he takes out another invitation, what is their name? Fills in. Then at the wedding my relatives were shocked — 500 people at a wedding for them it’s not conceivable, but for us in the order of things. And then yes, I agree, for Russians at your weddings the service is exclusive, it’s even a bit confusing.
            2. olviko
              +7
              21 October 2013 18: 35
              "And the main reason is" quiet "discrimination based on nationality and language (including for Kazakhs)."

              For those who are in the tank, I explain. In Kazakhstan, to the Russians, as well as to other nationalities, the attitude is as follows: if you want to live here, then accept our rules of the game. Learn the language, respect our customs, culture, if you want to be respected - respect others yourself. Nobody drives you, if you want to live here, if you don't want to - nobody keeps you. As they say "go to your Russia". The words and actions of the nationally concerned do not count, there are not many of them yet, as they say, they do not determine the current trend. Will it be determined in the future? - this is already our responsibility, both Kazakhs and Russians, including Russians of Russia. In my opinion, everything is honest, the same is in Russia. Those who do not respect Russia and the Russian people will have a hard time in Russia. Yes, and there are also enough nationalists of their own. In conclusion, I would like to say that after the collapse, of all the union republics, only Kazakhstan and Nazarbayev treated the Russians humanly, for which they Koprakhmet. This nation is worthy of respect! But what about the disadvantages? who does not have them. We, Russians, in all honesty, can we say that we are perfect?
              1. +3
                21 October 2013 19: 14
                Quote: olviko
                "And the main reason is" quiet "discrimination based on nationality and language (including for Kazakhs)."

                For those who are in the tank, I explain. In Kazakhstan, to the Russians, as well as to other nationalities, the attitude is as follows: if you want to live here, then accept our rules of the game. Learn the language, respect our customs, culture, if you want to be respected - respect others yourself. Nobody drives you, if you want to live here, if you don't want to - nobody keeps you. As they say "go to your Russia". The words and actions of the nationally concerned do not count, there are not many of them yet, as they say, they do not determine the current trend. Will it be determined in the future? - this is already our responsibility, both Kazakhs and Russians, including Russians of Russia. In my opinion, everything is honest, the same is in Russia. Those who do not respect Russia and the Russian people will have a hard time in Russia. Yes, and there are also enough nationalists of their own. In conclusion, I would like to say that after the collapse, of all the union republics, only Kazakhstan and Nazarbayev treated the Russians humanly, for which they Koprakhmet. This nation is worthy of respect! But what about the disadvantages? who does not have them. We, Russians, in all honesty, can we say that we are perfect?

                Oleg. judging by your post, not everything is bad in Russia with a sober look at the current realities of our life, and sometimes it becomes sad from reading some posts.
          2. Marek Rozny
            +4
            21 October 2013 10: 33
            Quote: aksakal
            And it is precisely from the Slavs that advertisements for the employment of "only persons of Slavic appearance come from mainly. Persons with non-Slavic appearance, please do not worry!"

            Recently, such ads are prohibited by law as discriminatory. And so - yes, dofiga of such announcements was in every newspaper.
            1. +2
              21 October 2013 12: 29
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And so - yes, dofiga of such announcements was in every newspaper.

              can you give me at least one example? !!
              a rash stupidity, even if it was like that, although I knew to hell with companies where there were no Slavic persons in sight, this is done much easier and more competent
              1. Marek Rozny
                +4
                21 October 2013 12: 45
                Oooh, Vasilenko took me out of ignore))))
                Don’t turn on the fool. ALL Kazakhstani newspapers have had such announcements until recently. Who are you scratching now, claiming that it was not? You tell tales to Russians.
                And although it is forbidden, still on the internet, some still write like this: "Required ____ Slavic appearance." You are not even funny in your attempt to blame the Kazakhs.
                By the way, if you are not in the know, then in Russia such ads are also popular. Moreover, non-Slavs are FORBIDDEN to serve in the Kremlin regiment. So if you want to look for nationalism, start with the Kremlin guards.
                1. +1
                  21 October 2013 13: 11
                  bring at least one screen, by the way now you are blaming the Russians and not me Kazakhs.
                  and as for the guards, well, the question can be sent to you, by the way, you didn’t look at the tank biathlon, I didn’t see any Slavic faces in your team
                  1. +4
                    21 October 2013 15: 45
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    bring at least one screen, by the way now you are blaming the Russians and not me Kazakhs.
                    and as for the guards, well, the question can be sent to you, by the way, you didn’t look at the tank biathlon, I didn’t see any Slavic faces in your team


                    A tank biathlon from 3 tankers a great indicator of oppression of the Slavs? belay
                    1. -4
                      21 October 2013 16: 24
                      Well, firstly, not out of three, and secondly, pay attention to a hundred Russia was represented not only by Russians, but in the Republic of Kazakhstan exclusively by Kazakhs, even if they couldn’t control a tank before the way, and I do not need to say that the Russians do not want to serve in the army
                      1. +8
                        21 October 2013 16: 51
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Well, firstly, not out of three, and secondly, pay attention to a hundred Russia was represented not only by Russians, but in the Republic of Kazakhstan exclusively by Kazakhs, even if they couldn’t control a tank before the way, and I do not need to say that the Russians do not want to serve in the army

                        - dear, since military service has become the norm when entering the civil service, especially the financial floor, customs and others, you won’t get to the Kazakh Army just like that - you posted it below, no one noticed. in order to divert from the army, now the situation is exactly the opposite - they are floating for what would be allowed to serve in the army. And everyone pays - Kazakhs, not Kazakhs. There are lambs that live in the envelope - go serve, and if you have specialized education and knowledge, at least a couple of phrases in the Kazakh language, ANYONE, regardless of nationality, can apply for work in these bodies.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        even if the tank before the way can not be controlled

                        - when you read it and write an indignant post that the Kazakh janitor is accepted normally by the Russians in Kazakhstan, but the Kazakh in a Mercedes is perceived only as a thief who stole from Russian it doesn’t matter for the Kazakhstani people that a workplace or financially, the main thing is a thief, because they, such cornflowers, have such a persistent stereotype, you’ll break the hell. And in the future, as Marek, I DO NOT INTEND to talk to such a Vasilenko in a normal tone, for he writes insulting nonsense -
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        even if the tank before the way can not be controlled

                        - and this applies not only to control tanks, but in general everything. It is simply amazing that at the same time, the Kazakhs somehow did not fall apart and somehow live, and the per capita GDP is slightly inferior to the Russian one. Well, of course, according to Vasilenko, these are Russians again, working as inconspicuous deputies, out of kindness of heart they pull Kazakhstan with stupid Kazakhs laughing I will not talk normally with him! The nose is not mature, let it go and carry water on itself! am
                      2. -3
                        21 October 2013 16: 58
                        Quote: aksakal
                        It is simply amazing that at the same time, the Kazakhs somehow did not fall apart and somehow live, and the per capita GDP is slightly inferior to the Russian one. Well, of course, according to Vasilenko, these are Russians again, working as inconspicuous deputies, out of kindness of heart they pull Kazakhstan with stupid Kazakhs

                        I don’t even argue and prove, everything is fine with you, industry, banks, CX.
                        everything is wonderful and wonderful
                      3. +4
                        21 October 2013 17: 16
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I’m not even arguing and proving that everything is fine with you, industry, banks, CX. everything is wonderful and wonderful

                        - Well, just like yours, no better and no worse, but in its scale - I hope, comparing Kazkommertsbank and Russian Sberbank, you always remember that you have a population of 9 times more? By the way, for fun, the Kazkom is not 9 times smaller than Sberbank, but less than a multiple, which already indicates that we have managers, and they are not bad. And everyone has problems. America has debts. Russia and Kazakhstan have their own problems. But these problems are not connected with the properties of the ethnic group, you can not even prove it. BUT! If this reassures you, prove yourself personally and calm down, even for the sake of your reassurance I can agree with your arguments and even with my second-rate agree, I’ll survive the thread .. laughing Will it be easier for you? Please inform
                      4. -1
                        21 October 2013 18: 06
                        only "laundry" under the name kazkom is not necessary to remember
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +6
                    21 October 2013 15: 55
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    bring at least one screen, by the way now you are blaming the Russians and not me Kazakhs.

                    in google banned? you constantly ask questions that you yourself can answer using a search engine. although still useless. at least bring the author of such an announcement by your hand, you’ll still flog the garbage. not the first time already.
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    and about the guards, well, the question can be sent to you

                    there is no ethnic restriction in the Republican Guard of Kazakhstan. the Slavs serve there too. You can even admire them in photographs. if you really aren’t banned in Google.

                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    By the way, they didn’t look at tank biathlon, I didn’t see any Slavic faces in your team

                    and? among the three tankers did not see a single Slav, does the Kazakhs show nationalism? we have more Russians in aviation, and among the tankers, mostly Kazakhs. we even have the commander in chief of aviation - Russian Sorokin)))
                    it would be better to notice that all Kazakhs answered fluently in Russian (although the accent made it clear that they were absolutely Kazakh-speaking), and the Armenians communicated through an interpreter.
                    and in general in the army we have the vast majority of Kazakhs. even if they didn’t choose the best tankers, but with their eyes closed they poked a finger, they still hit the Kazakhs)))
                    1. -1
                      21 October 2013 16: 27
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      and with their eyes closed they poked a finger, they still hit the Kazakhs)))

                      the main thing they managed to poke in a mess, a little commander who did not ditch
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +4
                        21 October 2013 17: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the main thing they managed to poke in a mess, a little commander who did not ditch

                        and nevertheless, the fact that the Kazakhs took second place, giving the Russians less than the first minute - in many respects the merit of this hot mechvod))) well, he really wanted to win, and therefore made such a significant mistake, but how did he later flew on his tank! Eagle! )))
                      2. 0
                        21 October 2013 18: 58
                        the fact that they took second place is excuse the bullshit they were the last, the delay was the fault of the Kazakh team and you can not stop the stopwatch.
                        I would understand if it was a technical malfunction that arose not through the fault of the crew
                  3. +7
                    22 October 2013 14: 06
                    Our Slavs do not have funny faces, but cute faces! And how many tanks from Kazakhstan are there so that for example a Russian would get there, which in the army and 10% will not be typed?
                    1. -5
                      22 October 2013 14: 20
                      there were no tanks from the Republic of Kazakhstan at all, and there are no tales about the fact that there are no Russians in the army of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
                      1. essenger
                        +4
                        22 October 2013 14: 34
                        Vasilenko
                        Russians are in the army, but their minuscule
                      2. +7
                        22 October 2013 14: 39
                        How was it not? !!! Tankers from the Republic of Kazakhstan took second place in the biathlon, but they WASN'T ?! laughing Well, as for the Russians in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan - just watch the video of parades or exercises and see for yourself! Their units !!!
                2. -2
                  21 October 2013 13: 13
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Oooh, Vasilenko took me out of ignore))))

                  Durkee, do not turn you on there and there wasn’t (more precisely, 2 minutes 4 months ago, I checked what this function means), as you always don’t know what, you’ll come up with
              2. +1
                21 October 2013 13: 36
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                can you give me at least one example? !! it’s extremely rare stupidity, even if it was like that, although I knew to hell with companies where there were no Slavic persons, it is much easier and more competent

                I’ll find it especially for you, although it’s very necessary. It is understandable when people are recruiting for a Russian restaurant, but people stumbled upon the fact that such a demand was simply groundless, just like that to the chef - the founder or the head. So he saw his team, which at the same time didn’t HAVE ANYTHING such specificity as an ethnic restaurant!
                1. 0
                  21 October 2013 14: 33
                  Quote: aksakal
                  I’ll find it especially for you, although it’s very necessary

                  find we will talk, in any case, I have not encountered such
          3. -2
            21 October 2013 12: 54
            aksakal
            Well ... the soul rushed to paradise ... or rather ... yes, over the bumps ... look at the comments of your compatriots, you can see right away. that we, in your opinion, are both fascists and ignoramuses and poor Kazakhs oppressing ... what else is there? Yeah, looking for colonizers and all that ... terms like PIZDISH are used ... and what’s the reason that you got off the chain, proving foam at the mouth that we are villains? Oh yes, some Kazakh woman wrote an article about Russian migration ... and that was enough for you to untie the bag with d .. m that you keep in your bosom ... so it turns out, eh? But it turns out that Russophobia is blooming in you, and even the mention of Russians in Kazakhstan causes any hatred in you ... but no one has already hinted at how Russian you lived in the 90s ....
            Dear, you yourself took off your pants, I can imagine how Russian is living with you, reading your comments oozing with anger ..... well, who are the Nazis? Hello, convey your conscience - she did the right thing that she left you, otherwise she would have died - the conscience does not live there. where terry chauvinism blooms ...
            1. +3
              21 October 2013 14: 26
              Quote: smile
              Dear, you yourself took off your pants, I can imagine how Russian is living with you, reading your comments oozing with anger ..... well, who are the Nazis? Hello, convey your conscience - she did the right thing that she left you, otherwise she would have died - the conscience does not live there. where terry chauvinism blooms

              - if you noticed, my post was exactly the answer to an EXTREMELY unfair post
              Quote: BlackScorp
              And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination on the basis of nationality and language (including for Kazakhs), it is just that it is not customary to talk about this in Kazakhstan ... In the article, some "Expert" says something about commercial structures , in which there is supposedly one Slavic ethnic group, but for some reason it is silent about the obligation of each enterprise to hire Kazakhs, which is controlled by akimats of all levels, about the fact that the courts, prosecutors, police, banks, etc., etc., are 95% Kazakhs and not because of the absence of other candidates ...

              - this is especially the post. And this lie gained a lot of advantages at the same time. This confirms that you simply believe in what you want to believe, and do not believe in what you do not want to believe. In this case, you want to believe that in all countries, especially in Kazakhstan, Russians are oppressed, and our arguments are not taken into account at all. That is why it is no longer arguments, but YELLOW, since it is no longer possible to reach you, hence my harsh words.
              1. -1
                21 October 2013 14: 48
                aksakal
                Just don't give a look. that you didn’t read a single comment of compatriots on this thread ... :))) Do you need to pick up quotes and put them here? If you noticed, I wrote quite a bit here, and if your compatriots didn’t rush to prove with foam at the mouth what we are fascists and villains, I would not write anything. At all. Just go over the comments and immediately understand who hates whom and who lies to whom .... I repeat, it’s enough to read the comments of your compatriots to understand how you relate to the Russians ... because you have everything there, yes ? Or is it where the selected Kazakh Natsiks gathered here?

                In general, it is strange how rude your compatriots allow themselves to speak out with respect to Russia and the Russians and how painfully sensitive they are to receive change ... That's why you never pull on your talking colleagues? Never. What is the price of your objectivity? Accordingly, what is the price of your statements and conclusions? Answer please. Just think and try to be objective for a moment ... :)))
                1. +3
                  21 October 2013 18: 30
                  Vladimir, we are biting a little here, but let's see what our authorities are doing to strengthen friendship between our peoples. If it’s not difficult, read this article
                  http://topwar.ru/34816-rossiyskiy-orden-druzhby-poluchil-akim-yuzhnogo-kazahstan
                  a.html
                  1. 0
                    21 October 2013 20: 56
                    Andrey KZ
                    Thank. I read it. Very well. But look at what kind of bacchanalia here in the discussion your compatriots arranged. What are they talking about us ... and about the vehicle, by the way, too. Moreover, they are unanimous, no one makes comments completely dispersed colleagues. What conclusions can be drawn from this? Well, think for yourself what any Russian person will think after reading the statements of the Kazakhs on this thread? Do I pull quotes? Personally, I do not want to do this. But who will shut up the Russophobia fountain? That's really how to react to this? Silence and sniff in a rag? So we all were silent perestroika, here is the result, we were silent .... Yes, and I am silent, so far I have not been forced to surrender ...
                    1. +5
                      21 October 2013 21: 33
                      Well, everything is rightly said about the TS, and as for Russophobia, then this is a mutual srach, which is already here. how many years last.
                    2. +7
                      21 October 2013 21: 41
                      And by the way, I personally admit that the Russian question in the KZ exists. If I were Russian, perhaps I would also not like much that is happening in the country. However, I am Kazakh and I still don’t like very much.
                      1. +1
                        21 October 2013 21: 51
                        Zymran
                        Thank. This is a very important statement. You are a worthy person, and I sincerely respect you, with people like you we wouldn’t have such a srach - for no reason. Yes, and the Russian question would not be ..... It is unfortunate that the site of people like you - a scanty amount. I hope that in the Kazakh society there are more people like you.
                      2. +3
                        21 October 2013 22: 44
                        Thank you I treat you with no less respect, although I do not quite agree with you.
                        But in general, I always considered myself a liberal nationalist. Bearing in mind that

                        Liberal nationalism emphasizes liberal values ​​and argues that there are universal values, such as human rights, in relation to which patriotic moral categories occupy a subordinate position. Liberal nationalism does not deny priorities in relation to those who are closer and more expensive, but believes that this should not be at the expense of strangers.
                      3. -1
                        22 October 2013 01: 49
                        Zymran
                        The fact that you do not agree with all my statements is normal, men are not robots with one program.
                        The term "liberal nationalist" is new to me. I think it is synonymous with "patriot". But the definition does not arouse my rejection, even though the word "liberal" is vulgarized in the same way as the terms "perestroika, glasnost, democracy, modernization, innovation, human rights, tolerance, reset" ... the concepts themselves are not to blame that they were perverted ... :)))
                        In my opinion, it is much more important that you can always come to an agreement with people like you and solve any problem that arises. And both of our parties are sorely lacking people like you.
                    3. +4
                      22 October 2013 08: 19
                      Quote: smile

                      But who will shut up the Russophobia fountain?


                      Are Kazakhs already Russophobes? You are too good about yourself.
                      We have a normal attitude towards Russians.
                      But chauvinism causes allergy attacks.
                      You live 22 of the year separately, and then all sorts of their EGO climb out - they teach life.
                      To make a judgment - first look at the source of the "Russophobic" comments.
                      1. -5
                        22 October 2013 10: 09
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Are Kazakhs already Russophobes?

                        you have such conceit, you are not all Kazakhs
                      2. +6
                        22 October 2013 10: 23
                        Vasilenko Vladimir

                        Here I read your comments.
                        They lived in Alma-Ata, graduated from high school, institute — held positions, had Al-Farabi Shashkin’s apartment (prestigious area). They lived 16 years in Kazakhstan after the USSR - they saw everything with their own eyes.
                        And write nasty things about Kazakhstan - well, that’s understandable. But why roll a barrel to Russia? Why didn’t Russia bring you there under the program of immigrants?
                        Are you always and everyone unhappy? Is that your character?
                        Are you planning to leave the EU as a refugee under the program or Canada?
                      3. -4
                        22 October 2013 13: 11
                        I understand that you wanted to show your steepness and significance, but forgive me, I pushed me into a puddle, I didn’t live in this area, if you are interested, the last address of Abay is 204 dollars of this Furmanovo 80, to search for a person in Alma-Ata just by the name of Vasilenko in his name the top of idiocy, only in the insurance company where I insured the car was 10 full nesk of 3 even with the coincidence of the year of birth.
                        your fabrications tired me, do not tell me where and when I rolled the barrel to Russia? !!!!
                        no, I understand that I want to blurt out, but sometimes I still need to think
        4. avt
          +5
          21 October 2013 09: 08
          Quote: BlackScorp
          . The only thing I agree with is that after a certain time in Kazakhstan there will remain mainly a declassified element and elderly people (here I mean only the Russian-speaking population), because the youngest and most efficient part of him is leaving ...

          This is confirmed by the fate of Russians in Tajikistan. Well, then the "indigenous" indigenous population will be drawn.
        5. antibanukurayza
          +4
          21 October 2013 10: 14
          Learn Kazakh language and no problem! A Kazakh who does not own Kazakh cannot get a job in government agencies as well as a Russian who does not know Kazakh.
        6. Marek Rozny
          0
          21 October 2013 10: 28
          Quote: BlackScorp
          And the main reason is "quiet" discrimination based on national and linguistic (including for Kazakhs) grounds, it's just that it's not customary to talk about this in Kazakhstan ...

          In Kazakhstan, knowledge of the state language is required to work in government agencies. If this is discrimination, then I can’t help. Schoolchildren and convicts are also not taken to the civil service, consider this also discrimination.
          Quote: BlackScorp
          .In the article, some "Expert" says something about commercial structures in which there is supposedly one Slavic ethnic group, but for some reason he is silent about the obligation of each enterprise to hire Kazakhs, which is controlled by akimats of all levels

          Absolute 100% delirium.

          Quote: BlackScorp
          that the courts, prosecutors, police, banks, etc., etc., etc., are 95% Kazakhs
          I have already spoken about the requirements for the civil service. The police are made up of Kazakhs, because the Russians should at least have served in the army. That you are not indignant that 90% of conscripts are ethnic Kazakhs? Russians by hook or by crook dodge military service (however, in Russia they do the same), and then they are surprised that the "military service" point turns out to be critical for work in the civil service or in the police. Banks and other commercial organizations are private organizations, it is generally stupid to accuse them of nationalism. By the way, Grigory Marchenko was the head of the state bank (National Bank) for the longest time.


          Quote: BlackScorp
          The only thing I agree with is that after a certain time in Kazakhstan there will remain mainly a declassified element and elderly people (here I mean only the Russian-speaking population), because the youngest and most efficient part of him is leaving ...

          The most normal ones remained. Why should they go to Russia if they succeed here? It is only the losers who abandon their old people in Kazakhstan and then whine that they were oppressed in KZ. Any hoopoe who does not do his job and is fired for this reason blames everyone but himself. In our case, he blames the "nationalists".
          I am very, very glad that the Russian diaspora in Kazakhstan differs from the "refugees" by hard work and prudence. And it is very characteristic that among the host of "golden-headed and golden-handed" ex-Kazakhstanis who left for Russia, NOT ONE HAS NOT ACHIEVED SOMETHING IN RUSSIA IN 22 YEARS. Among these pseudo-refugees there is not a single loud name in Russian politics, business, mass media, culture, science, and sports. So who did we lose? What prevents ex-Kazakhstanis from achieving something in Russia? Again Kazakhs infringe?
          1. +1
            21 October 2013 16: 06
            And it is very characteristic that among the host of "golden-headed and golden-handed" ex-Kazakhstanis who left for Russia, NOT ONE HAS NOT ACHIEVED SOMETHING IN RUSSIA IN 22 YEARS. Among these pseudo-refugees there is not a single loud name in Russian politics, business, mass media, culture, science, and sports. So who have we lost? What prevents the ex-Kazakhstanis from achieving something in Russia? Do Kazakhs infringe again?


            The winner of the Miss Russia 2013 beauty pageant, 18-year-old Elmira Abdrazakova, hails from the village of Zhelezinka in the Pavlodar region.
            Read more: http://news.nur.kz/253244.html

            The final of the Miss Deutschland 21 contest was held in Berlin on Friday, June 2013. He was won by a native of Kostanay, "Miss Berlin" Elena Schmidt http://forbes.kz/woman/miss_germaniya_rodom_iz_kazahstana

            Zhirinovsky laughing

            Arkady Volozh, 49 years
            Co-founder and CEO of Yandex, was born in the city of Guryev and graduated from the Oil and Gas Institute. THEM. Gubkin, majoring in applied mathematics. The CEO of Yandex Volozh became in 2000 year. In the ranking of senior executives of the Kommersant newspaper, I took 1st place in the Media Business nomination. In March, 2013 of the year fell into the ranking of billionaires annually compiled by Forbes magazine, his personal fortune was estimated at $ 1,15 billion.

            Natalya Timakova, 38 years
            In the past - the first woman press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, and in the present - the press secretary of the Prime Minister, was born in Alma-Ata, and received higher education at Moscow State University. Since 2009, it has been included in various ratings of the best political strategists and for the second year in a row has been holding the third position in the rating of the 100 Most Influential Women in Russia, compiled by the Echo Moskvy radio station with the support of the Ogonyok magazine and the RIA Novosti and Interfax agencies.

            47-year-old native of Karaganda, Dmitry Salamatin - now Minister of Defense of Ukraine. He lived and worked in Kazakhstan until the 1991 year. Later he left for Moscow, where he achieved great successes in labor activity. Since 1999, he has been living permanently in Ukraine. Twice he was elected People's Deputy of Ukraine from the Party of Regions, the ex-general director of the concern Ukroboronprom.
            More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/nazvanyi-10-priznannyih-za-rubejom-kazahsta
            ntsev-215960 /

            Professional hockey player, goalkeeper Evgeny Nabokov. He is 36 years old. Set an NHL record by scoring 11 away wins in a row; the first goalkeeper in NHL history to score a majority goal; became the second goalkeeper who managed to win more than 40 victories of the 3 season in a row, the best goalkeeper of the 2008 World Cup. Born in Ust-Kamenogorsk, graduated from the Ust-Kamenogorsk hockey school. In 1997, he went to North America
            More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/nazvanyi-10-priznannyih-za-rubejom-kazahsta
            ntsev-215960 /


            Vasily Rozinov
            Status: $ 625 000 000
            Age: 57
            Vasily Rozinov is the general director and owner of Ivolga-Holding LLP, and in half with Nurlan Tleubaev, is owned by Grain Insurance Company JSC. The holding includes agricultural, manufacturing, engineering companies, the Ivolga gas station network, the fleet of 50 aircraft, the Kostanay News newspaper and the Alau TV channel.
            The business is geographically diversified, and therefore traditional risks for agriculture are reduced. Ivolga-Holding LLP processes 1,5 million ha of farmland in Kazakhstan and Russia, which makes it the largest agricultural company in the world. The company operates an 31 elevator with a total capacity of over 3 million tons and exports grain.

            but there is someone who simply arranged his personal life and works quietly. Judging by my own kind.
            DO NOT PUT HELP TO RUSSIANS LEAVING FROM KAZAKHSTAN.
            1. +2
              21 October 2013 17: 27
              Quote: TS3sta3
              DON'T NEED Pouring HELP ON RUSSIAN LEAVEERS FROM KAZAKHSTAN

              - this is bad luck - it was these people who never spat on the Kazakhs! Moreover, Soskovets was a big shot in our country, he became an even bigger shot there, they forgot to mention him, spoke very highly and flatteringly about Kazakhstan and Kazakhstani. Singer Linda lived with us until she was 7 years old - no offense. The boxer, who now lives in Australia, Kostya Tszyu, the master of sports received exactly as a member of the Kazakhstan national team, Vladimr Zhirov, also a boxer who now lives in the USA, also - no offense against Kazakhstan! Amazing You leave without offense - you become a person abroad. You leave offended - you carry water abroad and post nasty things about Kazakhstan. Vasilenko, is there anything to think about?
              Yes, I also forgot about the Perm Deputy in Deripaska in his empire, the girl’s name is Gulzhan. But also no offense. laughing
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                21 October 2013 17: 56
                Aksakal, in that post they simply did not understand who the "refugees" are))) I wrote my thesis that NONE "REFUGEES" brought anything to the new homeland already on the site. True, I always added that by refugees I do not mean those who left before the collapse of the USSR and those who left for some personal reasons (family relations, education with subsequent employment). I never heard from them that someone oppressed them. This is not "cornflower".
                I had to immediately add what a "golden-handed golden-headed refugee" is, so as not to provoke comrade TS3sta3.
                1. -5
                  21 October 2013 18: 10
                  Well, your rudeness is not known anything new, you did not say and did not surprise anyone
            2. Marek Rozny
              +3
              21 October 2013 17: 48
              And who of them lived in independent Kazakhstan and is a "refugee"?
              Arkady Volozh left Kazakhstan in 1982.
              Dmitry Salamatin - left in 1991.
              Natalya Timakova in 1992, when the Kazakhs did not even suffer from "nationalism", they were still paying with Soviet rubles.
              These three could not escape from any "horrors" of Kazakhstan.

              Nabokov - although he left in 1997, he is also not a refugee at all. Moreover, they did not want to let him go))) And he did not leave for Russia initially, but for America.

              And what does the list do Vasily Rozinov? Did he leave Kazakhstan ??? One of the richest people in Kazakhstan, by the way. And that some tryndyat that poor Russians are not allowed to live)))

              Mannequin Elmira Abdrazakova, who left in 1997 at the age of three with a single mother - a gigantic loss for Kazakhstan ... Che here ... What kind of people were kicked out ... Although for some reason it seems that Elmira can hardly say herself that her Kazakhs infringed) )))
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                21 October 2013 18: 04
                Well, and about the only "refugee" from this list, Elmira Abdrazakova:
                "October 21, 2013
                Miss Russia trolls for being a Tatar from Kazakhstan
                Because of these attacks, the Miss Universe contestant was forced to close her social media accounts.
                19-year-old Elmira Abdrazakova, the representative of Russia in the Miss Universe 2013 contest, which will be held on November 9 in Moscow's Crocus City Hall, was the victim of trolling for being “not Russian enough,” the emirate’s website Emirates24 / 7 reports. Abdrazakova’s father is a Tatar, and she herself was born in Kazakhstan.

                Nationalists claim: she does not deserve to be called Miss Russia. The girl began to be attacked by racists on social networks after her victory in the Miss Russia contest at the beginning of the year, and this ultimately led to the fact that she was forced to block all her accounts on social media.
                “To be honest, I don’t understand why men are so aggressive towards a girl and her nationality,” Elmira SkyNews complains. “It was an unpleasant surprise for me that such people exist in our country.”

                http://forbes.kz/woman/miss_rossiya_travyat_za_to_chto_ona_tatarka_iz_kazahstana


                Is it necessary to talk about Kazakh nationalists? Kazakhs, unlike some Russians, are always proud of their compatriots. Despite nationality. It was in Russia that the Caucasian champion athletes were persecuted, and the Kazakhs did not hesitate to drop their tears when they saw Vinokurov, Maneza or Ilyin win.
                1. +3
                  21 October 2013 18: 41
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Vinokurov, Maneza or Ilyin.

                  .... Gennady Golovkin, Olga Shishigina ... here you can list for a long time
              2. essenger
                +6
                21 October 2013 18: 12
                Salem marek
                the most important loss of Kazakhs is by far Zhirik laughing
        7. Wild_grey_wolf
          -4
          21 October 2013 11: 59
          BlackScorp - I completely agree with you, though I'm still in Kazakhstan, so I do periodic reconnaissance in Russian cities
          1. Marek Rozny
            -3
            27 October 2013 20: 32
            Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
            I’m in Kazakhstan so far, so I do periodic intelligence in the cities of Russia

            stop hesitating. lathered up to leave - leave. decided to stay - stay. By the way, you can leave your parents in Kazakhstan, as practically all "refugees" do. do not be afraid, we are Kazakhstanis, we will feed your parents.
            Good riddance.
            1. Wild_grey_wolf
              0
              31 October 2013 11: 37
              what kind of insanity do you bear, my Father has long lived in Russia with Metera, they feed themselves and they had to feed me from abroad in the distant 90 times, due to the inability of the State at that time, and it doesn’t paint you insultingly, I myself It has long been a Russian, and I work here apparently because HOMELAND is mine and, by the way, I pay taxes in Kazakhstan and I will live here as long as possible. . . and YOU Marek Rozny - HAM, I can still allow myself to say BAD.
        8. The comment was deleted.
      2. -7
        21 October 2013 07: 42
        I do not believe that during the collapse of the USSR someone was kicked out in peacetime in 24 hours. All over the USSR, troops loyal to the Kremlin stood - the Uzbeks served anywhere but in Uzbekistan. When ethnic cleansing began in Moldova then Transnistria appeared. There was Chechnya - where there are fewer Russians than in Tajikistan - although there were no purges. In Tajikistan, a war immediately broke out between Islamists and secular Tajiks - and the Russian-speaking, like the entire population of the country, was plunged into the horrors of a civil war.
        Constantly on the forums there is a stamp "My wife from Uzbekistan - she doesn't tell what she did, only hysterically beats from firecrackers and fireworks"
        1. +12
          21 October 2013 08: 00
          Quote: Lindon
          I do not believe that during the collapse of the USSR someone was kicked out in peacetime in 24 hours. All over the USSR, troops loyal to the Kremlin stood - the Uzbeks served anywhere but in Uzbekistan. When ethnic cleansing began in Moldova then Transnistria appeared. There was Chechnya - where there are fewer Russians than in Tajikistan - although there were no purges. In Tajikistan, a war immediately broke out between Islamists and secular Tajiks - and the Russian-speaking, like the entire population of the country, was plunged into the horrors of a civil war.
          Constantly on the forums there is a stamp "My wife from Uzbekistan - she doesn't tell what she did, only hysterically beats from firecrackers and fireworks"

          The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night, burned the whole street, year 1991. Allowed to take only documents. 3 of the month traveled to Russia, on a trip through Kazakhstan.
          1. +2
            21 October 2013 08: 52
            Quote: Civil

            The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night, burned the whole street, year 1991. Allowed to take only documents. 3 of the month traveled to Russia, on a trip through Kazakhstan.


            What was the street called? House number? I’ll go and see your house - the documents for this house (plot) from the current owners. Merchandise - digging up.
            The main thing is to give data without lies.
          2. +4
            21 October 2013 09: 39
            Quote: Civil
            Quote: Lindon
            I do not believe that during the collapse of the USSR someone was kicked out in peacetime in 24 hours. All over the USSR, troops loyal to the Kremlin stood - the Uzbeks served anywhere but in Uzbekistan. When ethnic cleansing began in Moldova then Transnistria appeared. There was Chechnya - where there are fewer Russians than in Tajikistan - although there were no purges. In Tajikistan, a war immediately broke out between Islamists and secular Tajiks - and the Russian-speaking, like the entire population of the country, was plunged into the horrors of a civil war.
            Constantly on the forums there is a stamp "My wife from Uzbekistan - she doesn't tell what she did, only hysterically beats from firecrackers and fireworks"

            The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night, burned the whole street, year 1991. Allowed to take only documents. 3 of the month traveled to Russia, on a trip through Kazakhstan.

            Well, this stupidity was frozen. I still believe that they drove them out, but what did they burn that they themselves burn their finished empty houses? but in general I live in the south and did not hear that the streets were burned and cut.
          3. smersh70
            +2
            21 October 2013 12: 27
            Quote: Civil
            The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night,

            on an international basis there, mainly Meskhetian Turks were expelled .. and the bulk of them came to Azerbaijan, and part to Russia ......
            1. +6
              21 October 2013 12: 35
              Quote: smersh70
              Quote: Civil
              The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night,

              on an international basis there, mainly Meskhetian Turks were expelled .. and the bulk of them came to Azerbaijan, and part to Russia ......

              The family is mixed Russian, Tatars, only 11 people, I don’t know the rest. There is no lie, all relatives of friends raised money for a house and clothes. They live in the countryside. They don’t feel love for Uzbeks
          4. for VDV
            +6
            21 October 2013 12: 44
            Quote: Civil
            Quote: Lindon
            I do not believe that during the collapse of the USSR someone was kicked out in peacetime in 24 hours. All over the USSR, troops loyal to the Kremlin stood - the Uzbeks served anywhere but in Uzbekistan. When ethnic cleansing began in Moldova then Transnistria appeared. There was Chechnya - where there are fewer Russians than in Tajikistan - although there were no purges. In Tajikistan, a war immediately broke out between Islamists and secular Tajiks - and the Russian-speaking, like the entire population of the country, was plunged into the horrors of a civil war.
            Constantly on the forums there is a stamp "My wife from Uzbekistan - she doesn't tell what she did, only hysterically beats from firecrackers and fireworks"

            The city is called Ferghana, relatives were kicked out at night, burned the whole street, year 1991. Allowed to take only documents. 3 of the month traveled to Russia, on a trip through Kazakhstan.

            And near Samarkand, peaceful Uzbeks arrived in the Komsomolsky village by truck and delivered an ultimatum to the whole village of Meskhitin Turks to clear the territory within a day after the arson and physical violence. Cleared, threw everything. and peaceful Uzbeks just took them home. from the whole village there are only 2 houses left with a Russian family and a Tatar one. But not for long, they didn’t kick them out, but they created appropriate living conditions. so Lindon lives in the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm.
            1. +4
              21 October 2013 12: 51
              Quote: za VDV
              from the whole village there were only 2 houses with a Russian family and a Tatar one. But not for long, they didn’t kick them out, but they created appropriate living conditions. so Lindon lives in the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm.


              You do not understand storytellers. You deal with each other.
              And here they write that you burn down the houses of the Russians and then they begged for 3 months on the road. And then it turns out that "a Tatar-Russian family according to a passport in the village of Meskhetian Turks was politely asked to leave for their historical homeland. So which of you is lying?" Civil?
              Ferghana and Samrkand did not understand - is it not in different parts of Uzbekistan? Who killed whom and where did they burn the whole street?
              1. ed65b
                0
                21 October 2013 12: 55
                Quote: Lindon
                Quote: za VDV
                from the whole village there were only 2 houses with a Russian family and a Tatar one. But not for long, they didn’t kick them out, but they created appropriate living conditions. so Lindon lives in the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm.


                You do not understand storytellers. You deal with each other.
                And here they write that you burn down the houses of the Russians and then they begged for 3 months on the road. And then it turns out that "a Tatar-Russian family according to a passport in the village of Meskhetian Turks was politely asked to leave for their historical homeland. So which of you is lying?" Civil?

                Oh father and you are also illiterate. where do you live on the moon? The events in Ferghana and on the territory of Uzbekistan took place at the same time. Read the story.
                1. +3
                  21 October 2013 13: 01
                  Quote: ed65b

                  Oh father and you are also illiterate. where do you live on the moon? The events in Ferghana and on the territory of Uzbekistan took place at the same time. Read the story.


                  Read fairy tales to your children.
                  I do not need to drive the blizzard. One writes burned-killed, another peacefully asked to leave. Everywhere in Uzbekistan pogroms were written of Meskhitin Turks, not Russian Tatars. Since when did Russians begin to write Meskhit Turks?
                  1. 0
                    21 October 2013 13: 07
                    Quote: Lindon
                    Everywhere they write in Uzbekistan pogroms were Meskhit Turks, not Russian Tatars

                    went to all
                    1. 0
                      21 October 2013 13: 20
                      The Meskhita Turks got it. And the Russians howl as if they were being cut there like Transnistria or Chechnya. Take a walk "A tractor driver cuts a Russian's throat".
                      I am not for the Uzbeks - I am for the truth. If the Russians were cut, it’s not in Uzbekistan !!! Russians were cut - but where I already wrote.
                      1. +4
                        21 October 2013 14: 38
                        Quote: Lindon
                        If the Russians were cut, it’s not in Uzbekistan !!!


                        If extremists in Tashkent didn’t reach a big rampant in Tashkent, organized pogroms in the Ferghana region began in late May 1989. in Kuvasay, Fergana, Margilan, Kokand, Tashlak and other settlements; extremists acted in crowds of 100-400 people, extremists armed with stocked metal rods, axes, pitchforks, knives and other objects began beating peaceful, and innocent people (including old people, women, children), began mass arsons of houses, numerous killings were committed, and not only Meskhetian Turks, but also Russians (Slavs) and people of other nationalities. The Uzbek bandits in Ferghana had the slogans: "UZBEKISTAN-UZBEKAM", "SHOWER A TURK TO THE SOUL OF THE RUSSIANS "," YES THE ISLAMIC BANNER, MUSLIM FAITH, HELLO Someone was given free drinks to the bandits (although drinking is forbidden by Islam, but in this case there were “all means are good”), many extremists were obviously drug users.
                        http://zasouz.ucoz.ru/blog/reznja_v_fergane_1989/2010-07-31-5
                  2. ed65b
                    0
                    21 October 2013 15: 54
                    Quote: Lindon
                    Quote: ed65b

                    Oh father and you are also illiterate. where do you live on the moon? The events in Ferghana and on the territory of Uzbekistan took place at the same time. Read the story.


                    Read fairy tales to your children.
                    I do not need to drive the blizzard. One writes burned-killed, another peacefully asked to leave. Everywhere in Uzbekistan pogroms were written of Meskhitin Turks, not Russian Tatars. Since when did Russians begin to write Meskhit Turks?

                    During the Ferghana events, our Russian purgenologist went to you along with the Armenians and Tatars and the Uzbek himself who is more prosperous, when you carry heresy, be careful. you can run into an eyewitness man.
                    Events that began under the same slogans escalated into general looting and robbery. Analogous events occurred in Dushanbe, where in the struggle of the Vovtsy with Yurchiks they killed Russians and many others.
              2. ed65b
                +1
                21 October 2013 15: 58
                Quote: Lindon
                Quote: za VDV
                from the whole village there were only 2 houses with a Russian family and a Tatar one. But not for long, they didn’t kick them out, but they created appropriate living conditions. so Lindon lives in the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm.


                You do not understand storytellers. You deal with each other.
                And here they write that you burn down the houses of the Russians and then they begged for 3 months on the road. And then it turns out that "a Tatar-Russian family according to a passport in the village of Meskhetian Turks was politely asked to leave for their historical homeland. So which of you is lying?" Civil?
                Ferghana and Samrkand did not understand - is it not in different parts of Uzbekistan? Who killed whom and where did they burn the whole street?

                you don’t have a taste of those events at all and reason like an amateur october. do you think the events in Ferghana did not affect the rest of Uzbekistan in any way? Do you know that from Samarkand to the Tajik border no more than 100km? Do you know Penjikent? But this is Tajikistan. Everything in Samarkand came down from the mountain.
                1. +2
                  21 October 2013 17: 29
                  Quote: ed65b

                  you don’t have a taste of those events at all and reason like an amateur october. do you think the events in Ferghana did not affect the rest of Uzbekistan in any way? Do you know that from Samarkand to the Tajik border no more than 100km? Do you know Penjikent? But this is Tajikistan. Everything in Samarkand came down from the mountain.


                  Do not drink acetone, from it you have cereal in your brain.
                  What are the pogroms of Russians in Tajikistan? From your words, Russians have never been there. Why is the Tajik penjikent mentioned here? Are you there that donkey tails twisted?
                  Connection with the pogroms in Ferghana of the Meskhitin Turks and Samarkand? There, too, the Turks lived?
                  We know about one family of Russians and Tatars from the Mehsitinsky village captured by the Uzbeks. It turned out that no one burned at home and did not kill the Russians.
                  If the Russians died, give names, surnames - or did they all live without passports?
                2. andruha70
                  +1
                  23 October 2013 19: 02
                  you don’t have a taste of those events at all and reason like an amateur october. do you think the events in Ferghana did not affect the rest of Uzbekistan in any way? Do you know that from Samarkand to the Tajik border no more than 100km? Do you know Penjikent? But this is Tajikistan. Everything in Samarkand came down from the mountain.
                  ishsho one "iksperd" laughing Why are you there, by the method of budding reproduce or what? firstly, not 100km, but only 40 tongue and I visited Penjikent, so what? but the fact that the events in the Ferghana Valley, didn’t affect the rest of the territory, I affirm, as a native.
            2. andruha70
              +1
              23 October 2013 18: 45
              And near Samarkand, peaceful Uzbeks arrived in the Komsomolsky village by truck and delivered an ultimatum to the whole village of Meskhitins Turks
              another "gramatey" ... laughing Well, explain to me, the native Samarkand, where is the Komsomolsky village near Samarkand (preferably with Google map coordinates)? you-not respected-accidentally with the Ferghana Valley did not confuse? tongue once again, there were ... but there weren’t, with the Russians.
        2. +6
          21 October 2013 10: 06
          Yes, believe me, after graduating from the Novocherkassk Polytechnic University, my uncle was assigned to the city of Andijan in the 60s, until the end of the 80s the family lived and worked quite successfully on hand. positions and here a sharp rise in the "patriotic" self-awareness of local aborigines, who had previously lived with the Russians in perfect harmony, began, as a result, the uncle and his family barely managed to leave sunny Uzbekistan, now they live in the city of Gubkin, Belgorod region. PY. SY. My wife was born in the "glorious" city of Kostanay!
          1. +1
            21 October 2013 10: 15
            Let's try to find the meaning in your words.
            Your uncle with 60-80x led the natives in Andijan (UzSSR) and now live in Gubkin. And where does Kustanay where your spouse was born if it is 2000 km from Andijan and Gubkin ???
            What was the last PS?
            1. +1
              21 October 2013 10: 33
              This, I mean, the stamp "My wife is from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, etc." found on the forums is often true in essence!
              1. +3
                21 October 2013 10: 42
                Everything was moving in your head. The peoples in Central Asia are different with a different mentality. Between nomadic Kazakhs and urban Tajiks there is a big difference - only users from Russia do not know and do not distinguish it. And it doesn’t matter that they live in the same region.
                The wife who lived in Kustanai is almost in Russia, the wife from Tajikistan is already a semi-eastern woman with a scarf on her head. So they have accepted.
                1. +1
                  21 October 2013 10: 48
                  I actually wrote about the stamps!
                2. ed65b
                  +1
                  21 October 2013 12: 59
                  Quote: Lindon
                  Everything was moving in your head. The peoples in Central Asia are different with a different mentality. Between nomadic Kazakhs and urban Tajiks there is a big difference - only users from Russia do not know and do not distinguish it. And it doesn’t matter that they live in the same region.
                  The wife who lived in Kustanai is almost in Russia, the wife from Tajikistan is already a semi-eastern woman with a scarf on her head. So they have accepted.

                  well you give comics seen enough fool did you see Russians in Dushanbe ???
                  1. +2
                    21 October 2013 13: 03
                    Do you deny the existence of Russians in Dushanbe? Or deny that they are Russian?
                    At least read the context - it was about the spouse of the user - she is from Kustanai.
                    1. ed65b
                      0
                      21 October 2013 15: 48
                      Quote: Lindon
                      Do you deny the existence of Russians in Dushanbe? Or deny that they are Russian?
                      At least read the context - it was about the spouse of the user - she is from Kustanai.

                      You along the way except your village were not anywhere. Russian girls in Tajikistan with headscarves on their heads never went to church, and if they don’t put on scarves, it’s not because of the eastern tradition. So when fasting write specifically and not by common speculation and fantasies.
                      1. 0
                        21 October 2013 17: 32
                        Quote: ed65b
                        Quote: Lindon
                        Do you deny the existence of Russians in Dushanbe? Or deny that they are Russian?
                        At least read the context - it was about the spouse of the user - she is from Kustanai.

                        You along the way except your village were not anywhere. Russian girls in Tajikistan with headscarves on their heads never went to church, and if they don’t put on scarves, it’s not because of the eastern tradition. So when fasting write specifically and not by common speculation and fantasies.


                        Does anyone have a home? Stop drinking acetone.
                        You decide Russian in Tajikistan, they are or not?
                        In one we write that the Russians were not there. Now we affirm that the Russians did not wear scarves there.
      3. +7
        21 October 2013 07: 45
        Quote: Civil
        It’s just that Kazakh Russians have enough money to move,

        They don’t have enough. But they’re coming. In our region, not only Russians are moving, but also Kazakhs. 30 percent is already Kazakh
        Here, the matter is a little different. In Kazakhstan itself, the north is considered not very Kazakh. And the Kazakhs of the north, too. Probably afraid of the nationalists ...
        1. -1
          21 October 2013 10: 11
          The most ardent nationalists are the "intelligentsia" from the South of Kazakhstan! Northern Kazakhstan at the time of my mother-in-law, who lived there, was not noticed in this! Now I do not know.
          1. +3
            21 October 2013 10: 49
            Quote: Djozz
            The most ardent nationalists are the "intelligentsia" from the South of Kazakhstan! Northern Kazakhstan at the time of my mother-in-law, who lived there, was not noticed in this! Now I do not know.

            the most ardent nationalist and, by the way, an intellectual, our akim, and the native southerner received the Order of Friendship of Russia, the highest order awarded to non-Russian citizens. He was awarded the order at the request of local Russians and the Russian Embassy for the construction of the Glory Memorial on an adjacent branch. this is to your cartoon about the terrible south.
            1. +1
              21 October 2013 11: 22
              And, where did you get the idea that your Akim is an "intellectual", he is apparently a decent person!
              1. +4
                21 October 2013 11: 58
                Quote: Djozz
                And, where did you get the idea that your Akim is an "intellectual", he is apparently a decent person!

                for me these are synonyms.
                1. -1
                  21 October 2013 12: 33
                  Quote: Semurg
                  for me these words are synonyms

                  you got excited, as with the request of the "local Russians"
        2. Marek Rozny
          +2
          21 October 2013 16: 01
          Kazakhs do not go to Russia. don't go. what do u do salaries are the same, prices are higher, there is more mess and crime, even there are nationalistic gopniks. why go to Russia? or maybe you have some secret numbers from migrant workers?
          1. -1
            21 October 2013 20: 42
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Kazakhs do not go to Russia. don't go. what do u do

            go home, go, sometimes even manage to be called refugees
      4. Beech
        0
        21 October 2013 16: 20
        Believe me, there are frosts in Kazakhstan ...
      5. andruha70
        +6
        21 October 2013 19: 02
        From Uzbekistan, my relatives were kicked out at 91 in 24 hours without further ado, and burned at home.
        well, well, for more details please. in which region was it? what positions did you have education? who is of nationality? ... I read a lot of comments about the fact that in Uzbekistan, Russians are spread rot ... so: I answer - as a resident of this country who was born here, who lived here for 43 years, by ethnicity-Russian, having here, my own small, but my own business ... all this is bullshit ... I’ll say more — in Uzbek, I know only two expressions — assal (hello) and ok yul (in Russian — happy journey wink ) literally bright path ... well, and swearing ... where the hell, without it ... feel so what am I talking about? oh yes ... I'm talking about the resettlement program ... 2 years ago, according to the resettlement program, I had to wait 1,5 years ... recourse (for each "wrong" comma, it was necessary to wait 2 months, correct this "comma" and again, all the previous past pieces of paper, re-submit ... belay now-2-2.5 years to wait ... fool but if you go, for example, to the Kaliningrad region, pay 20 rubles for a quota, then in half a year, you will receive a migrant certificate ... the question is why I am Russian by nationality (both according to my passport, and according to metrics, still Soviet ), is it necessary for every "wrong" comma, or not a very clear seal, humiliate in front of the representative of the Russian consulate, proving that I am not a camel?
        1. -3
          21 October 2013 22: 33
          I didn’t wait for a year or 2, and the commas didn’t rule and didn’t pay a dime for the quota, so that I don’t need to fit everything
          1. andruha70
            +3
            21 October 2013 23: 32
            I didn’t wait for a year or 2, and the commas didn’t rule and didn’t pay a dime for the quota, so that I don’t need to fit everything
            dear, and you from which republic, and in what year, did the resettlement program? ps-quota is only in the territory of the Russian Federation- and not in all regions ... why am I writing this - because I myself went through it ... or rather I tried ... sad and I can afford to go to Kaliningrad and (like my few friends, Russian-speaking, among other things) in half a year get an ID card ... but not all Russian-speaking immigrants can afford it ... and what do you think, what Do they think about their historical homeland? request
            1. -3
              22 October 2013 00: 28
              Quote: andruha70
              dear, and you from which republic

              in October 08, from Kazakhstan
              1. +4
                22 October 2013 08: 36
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                Quote: andruha70
                dear, and you from which republic

                in October 08, from Kazakhstan


                Your house was not burned and did not give 24 hours?
                From the roar of a salute does not throw a hysteria?
                What were the housing prices? Are you in the crisis?
                And then the prices have not risen to the level of 2007.
                There is no excitement in the market.
              2. andruha70
                +4
                22 October 2013 12: 32
                in October 08, from Kazakhstan
                Thanks for answering! hi about Kazakhstan, I can’t say anything, I wasn’t there ... request but about Uzbekistan, I repeat, every year, it is longer and more difficult. It is easier to go to Russia, and there this "program" is done. But again, I repeat, not everyone can afford it. personally, in my subjective opinion, if the Russian Federation was interested in the influx of compatriots, it would be enough to look at my face, for example mine ... feel Slavic appearance? aha! in Russian, Gutar? - still ... I can wrap it with obscene laughing certificate of what we do not judge, is there? aha! all sorts of aids, drug addicts not sick? -not! here you get the ID card-get-sign ... smile
        2. +6
          22 October 2013 08: 29
          Russian non-living Uzbekistan - can you prove that millions of Russians live in Uzbekistan? Consider Uzbekistan their second home?
          In Russia they only have a head about Uzbekistan in their heads
          From Uzbekistan, my relatives were kicked out to 91 in 24 hours without further ado and burned at home

          Here you are trying to find out the details from them - so in response to the shit they watered and, moreover, they come up with fairy tales further - Ferghana, Samarkand.
          They live some sort of rumors and speculation. Perhaps this is all due to the closeness of events about the Ferghana events - there are no limits to fantasy.
          Unfortunately, we do not launder the honest name of the Uzbek people on this site.
          1. andruha70
            +3
            22 October 2013 12: 55
            Here you are trying to find out the details from them - so in response to the shit they watered and, moreover, they come up with fairy tales further - Ferghana, Samarkand.
            here I am about the same. hi I'm not saying that there were no clashes ... there were! but there was not a single, I repeat, NOT ONE skirmish-against the Russians! if you are not an alcoholic, and your hands grow from the right places, then honor and respect for you ... yes, you will not get into the Oliy Majlis (well, this is the specificity of all the "former"), but in everything else, the green light ... tongue
      6. andruha70
        +3
        21 October 2013 22: 12
        Civilian - alle! welcome! first, first! how do you hear? Waiting for 24 hours and squeezed houses ...
    2. Beibit
      +4
      21 October 2013 07: 35
      Well, Kazakhs are friendly people ... especially with Russians they get along well than with the rest. They are treated much better than "our own among strangers, a stranger among our own." As you know, we also have many ("Kazakhs") who return from neighboring countries. And Russians who still speak or at least know Kazakh are very much respected.
      1. +6
        21 October 2013 07: 43
        Beibit, but I didn’t say anything bad about the Kazakhs and I will never say that, I lived in KZ for 30 years and I have a lot of Kazakh friends, and whenever I come there, we always meet with pleasure, people are very hospitable ...
    3. Airman
      -2
      21 October 2013 09: 32
      The northern regions of Kazakhstan have never been Kazakh, they, like the Crimea to Ukraine, were "written off" to the Kazakhs by the notorious Nikita Khrushchev. And the capital was moved from Alma-ata to Astana for the reason that these regions could not separate.
      1. +2
        21 October 2013 09: 37
        Alaska is also native Russian land.
        Why do Kazakhs live in Astrakhan, Orenburg, Omsk and other border regions with Russia?
        Where does the gift legend come from? Crimea is known from the documents? But where did Northern Kazakhstan come from? I give a hint - Gorbachev.
        Khrushchev did not write anything off - Kazakhstan was in this form under Lenin - though Orenburg was only taken away.
        1. +9
          21 October 2013 09: 59
          If you go from Barnaul to Pavlodar (600 km), you can see that the Russian names (Pavlodar, Alekseevka, Pavlovsk) are mixed with the Kazakh (Barnaul, Kulunda, Sherbakty). There is no clear border. It will also be if you go in any other direction. And God forbid that the existing border remains only on paper (map).
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Marek Rozny
            +9
            21 October 2013 10: 57
            Minesweeper, as always, takes off my hat for your measured messages. Madame ya-ai, I personally am ready to give money so that she leaves for some kind of Australia. But I won’t let you go) A normal person is Kazakhstan’s strategic wealth, and is not subject to export)))
            1. +3
              21 October 2013 11: 08
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Minesweeper, as always, takes off my hat for your measured messages. Madame ya-ai, I personally am ready to give money so that she leaves for some kind of Australia. But I won’t let you go) A normal person is Kazakhstan’s strategic wealth, and is not subject to export)))

              not without her it will be boring who will write "and they have an advisor ToNi blair"
            2. +6
              21 October 2013 11: 46
              Rakhmet (in Kazakh) thanks (in Russian) hi
        2. +6
          21 October 2013 10: 41
          I look at my opinion caused a great response in many hearts, so I can not help but answer and I apologize that there will be many ..
          1. I repeat once again, I did not comment on the behavior and did not speak about the Kazakhs of offensive expressions that you, good gentlemen, allow yourself to address the Russians even on this site, "like a worm in your own", "run away with screams" the stereotype of Russians, or how Russians behave on holidays, this already says a lot, and this is the difference between us. I, I repeat again, have a lot of Kazakh friends, excellent friends with whom I have the warmest memories, I was born in Kazakhstan and lived here for 30 years, but because of people like you, such an opinion about them develops ... I will not deny what Aksakal said about the "Russification" of the host, but it is and is being done and thank you for this, I say without irony ...
          2. I do not dispute the right of Kazakhstan to the Kazakh language, it has not even been discussed by me, and those who dispute — by analogy, argue about the knowledge of the Russian language for Russian citizens. But you must admit that a large number of Kazakhs, especially in northern and central Kazakhstan, also do not know him, like the Russians.
          3. I did not say that all Kazakhs are so cool and drive Mercedes, here you argue with yourself and prove something to yourself. I spoke only about that and I will repeat again that 95% of employees, incl. and leaders in courts, banks, police, tax, KNB, akimats, prosecutor's office are occupied by representatives of the titular nation, or will you deny it? although there are about 40% of non-Kazakhs in Kazakhstan .... are they all so incapable of taking positions in these structures? I will not speak at all about the announcements that a "Slavic appearance" is required in Kazakhstan, because I have not seen this and I can not even imagine ... I can say where non-titular nations are represented in the majority - this is production ...
          I can tell a lot more and how Russians, even with knowledge of the language, are asked to quietly make room in banks or other organizations, about beating in the army of Kazakhs who do not know the language or who know it insufficiently, according to the beating, about the enmity of the oralmans (especially from Mongolia) with local Kazakhs ... On this subject, you can talk very, very much and uselessly, because everyone has their own experience and their own worldview and agree in the end, to mutual insults and nationalist appeal ...
          P.S. Aksakal, if YOU are really Aksakal, and not like that, just a nickname, then I’m ashamed for your PIZDISH, aksakals do not fall before this ....
          1. +1
            21 October 2013 11: 48
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Nonsense. Take the pre-revolutionary census of these areas and take it easy with this topic forever.

            - Semipalatinsk volost (Semey volost) - was the center of life of the Kazakh nation in tsarist times, almost all life was spinning here, Kazakhs were at that time an absolute majority and Semey volost (now the region) is located closer to the north of Kazakhstan. Marek is right.

            Quote: BlackScorp
            Your pizdish
            - got excited, I apologize, because I really do not like the rush for nothing. In this post, much more balanced, you yourself admitted, but at the same time added "stories in the Banks".
            Quote: BlackScorp
            at banks or other organizations
            - when the leadership is changed, half of the bank practically changes, this is wrong, but in Russia the same is true - the leadership has changed - the team changes, the ethnic group has nothing to do with it, there are other criteria, according to the principle of "belonging to the team". Therefore, dismissals on the basis of ethnicity are the inventions of careless dismissals who do not want to look like a loser. As for the army affairs - I have to admit, but you should know - I served in the Soviet Army, and there conflicts, in addition to a break in terms of service (the so-called "hazing"), were also mandatory and on a national basis, it was always! I myself took part in such night barracks-stool battles. Most often, the fault went along the line "Uzbeks + Tajiks + the entire Caucasus VS Russians + Slavs + Kazakhs + Balts and all the rest." But this is not necessarily the case, there were other formats, it was also the case that the Kazakhs were at enmity with the Russians, I just indicate How more often than not, there was a national rift, and all this for what to say - ethnic conflicts in the Army have always been and will be! There is nothing to be done.

            Quote: BlackScorp
            I spoke only about that and I repeat once again that 95% of employees, incl. and leaders in the courts, banks, police, tax, KNB, akimats, prosecutors are occupied by representatives of the titular nation, or will you deny it?
            - Marek has already indicated about service in the Army, and he is right, but the Russians, as always, want to be in a special position, to get a job in these bodies without serving in the Army. Is there a reason for such a special option? No? Bye. He served, received a military ID, received a specialized education, learned about a dozen words in Kazakh (in fact, no one else will demand from you, said in Kazakh "hello", "goodbye", "how are you", "I'm going to work" and a couple more phrases, and on this - EVERYTHING!) - welcome to all these bodies. By the way, Marek, Russians do not shy away from service, there is now more competition for the right to serve in the Army than in any other prestigious university! Russians most often do not have so many rams, laughing to bring this herd to the draft board as a presentation for the right to serve in the Army and gain access to the right to work in the desired organs. But how can you help here? Grimaces of the Kazakhstan market, alas.
            1. 0
              21 October 2013 11: 49
              And the national sign is inflated by the Russians themselves. Once I came to a friend in my car, I had to pick it up. I parked in his yard, it's cold, the engine works at idle, I sit, I warm myself. Here the janitor, a Russian woman, comes up and immediately into the room - like, drown it out and go outside the yard, wait there. Then I found out that in the courtyard in which it somehow happened, all Russians lived, their own orders were formed, many of which are contrary to Kazakhstani laws (OU! After all, you don't like that either!) and the requirement for "outsiders" not to park cars, even to wait in the yard. I said that this territory is not private, but Kazakhstani (I meant - state, public use), so I will stand here. And there was a big conflict, because it seemed to this janitor with some fright that I parked in this courtyard solely with the aim of telling her that "I am Kazakh and I am standing on Kazakh land and therefore get out!" But I didn’t say that, it’s purely a figment of her imagination.
              Sometimes someone is on the road, someone cuts me off, you catch up to say, "who taught him to ride like that?", You see the face of Slavic nationality and close your mouth, away from sin, otherwise you will hurt his national feelings, because for sure "dreaming up!"
              Once again I will repeat for you - in SABZHE that expert who indicated the main reason for the lack of prospects and the change in the cultural landscape, as well as, I’ll add, poor professional (including higher education) - this is the expert of PRAV. And on the rights of Askakal, I tell you - there is my opinion and WRONG. Your opinion is WRONG. So I’ll say instead of the word for which I apologize again.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +4
        21 October 2013 10: 37
        Quote: Povshnik
        The northern regions of Kazakhstan have never been Kazakh, they, like the Crimea to Ukraine, were "written off" to the Kazakhs by the notorious Nikita Khrushchev.

        Nonsense. Take the pre-revolutionary census of these areas and take it easy with this topic forever.
      3. +2
        21 October 2013 15: 05
        Quote: Povshnik
        the notorious Nikita Khrushchev "wrote off" the Kazakhs

        facts to the studio. wink
  2. +9
    21 October 2013 06: 45
    Good morning. There are several acquaintances among those who lived in Kazakhstan; special oppression on nat. they did not experience the sign, but the lack of prospects for the children, and such an argument sounded.
    1. +4
      21 October 2013 06: 59
      Hello. Here on the site, living and living in Kazakhstan today, well, not a little. Not to mention other CIS countries. So interesting opinions are ahead wink
      1. +11
        21 October 2013 09: 39
        I am Russian, I live in Kazakhstan in Ekibastuz and sometimes (visiting) in Pavlodar. The son entered the college in Pavlodar this year. No thoughts about moving. On the state. there are very few chances to get into the service, corruption, it exists in Russia. They take only "theirs", and Kazakhs turn out to be "theirs" in Kazakhstan, there is nothing surprising. The attitude towards Russians is normal, no matter how much I have not communicated with Kazakhs, nationalist sentiments are not noticeable. Sometimes (rarely) southerners who come to us to work (truckers, sellers of fruits from the bazaar) pretend not to know that, but this is rather an exception. In Russia, there are much more problems with Caucasians. By the way, specialists from both Russia and Ukraine come to our plant.
        The true reason for the relocation in the article was briefly mentioned - people got money to move. Salary in Kazakhstan is now commensurate with the Russian (for corrosive - less than 150 bucks on average) work is (sea).
        About the political instability, the author wrote in vain. Most likely the NAS has a receiver, but its name has not yet been named. I think this is Serik Akhmetov. He came to us in August at the plant, so the security measures were finer than if the NAS had arrived. They have known each other since Karmet. NAS was a party organizer, and S. Akhmetov was a Komsomol at the same time.
  3. UV58
    +11
    21 October 2013 06: 52
    but that Kazakhstan, we have in Russia, in the nat. Republicans are exactly the same. there is no nationalism, of course not! only here the population in cities, it was 80% Russian to 20% of the rest, now exactly the opposite. The nineties did their job and started the flywheel, if in the nineties - the beginning of the zero, having seized the power they sang the song: "We are the titular nation!" we have de "national consciousness" woke up, but in fact nationalism at the regional political level, then why be surprised now ??? why be surprised natsik on the streets of Moscow ??? "peace - peace", "internationalism" - no more words.
    1. +5
      21 October 2013 11: 57
      Judging by the massacre in Biryulevo in Russia, there are many times more problems with nationalism. In Kazakhstan, something like this was in Jean-Ozen, not only on nationalist grounds, but mainly on economic and political grounds.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +3
        21 October 2013 12: 16
        Quote: Canep
        Judging by the massacre in Biryulevo in Russia, there are many times more problems with nationalism. In Kazakhstan, something like this was in Jean-Ozen, not only on nationalist grounds, but mainly on economic and political grounds.

        moreover, Kazakhs with Kazakhs.
  4. +8
    21 October 2013 07: 15
    Living in an environment where the indigenous people consider you an occupier is far from comfortable. Most are only financially unable to move. Surprisingly, Russia’s unwillingness to accept these, as a rule, qualified specialists. Businessmen, ay, where are you? Here they are, those who you need so much. You only need to invest in the initial stage, and then you will more than get yours. And Kazakhstan, Armenia, etc. will manage. The enterprises will close and return to cattle breeding and agriculture, to which their soul lies.
    1. +6
      21 October 2013 12: 55
      They will not return to cattle breeding, because have already lost their skills, but they will not be able to build a high-tech state either. The most important thing is that in the modern world, where all the predators are, you have to be big and the teeth have to be big, especially the canine teeth in the Yars. With regards to Kazakhstan, the prospects are not happy, because the territory is decent, the wealth of the subsoil is immeasurable, and the population is small, a third of the population is non-titular and discriminated, at least in language (in general, not a steel ball, but a jellyfish-like formation) and, for example, with the Chinese for the tribal ideals of the akyns, they will not run to Mother Russia. There is no way out to the world ocean, there is no one to help. The country is a typical victim. I repeat, when they destroyed the Union, they did not want 15 independent states, but planned to dismember and devour the pieces, what was done with the Baltic states and the CMEA countries, on which a new EU empire was created. And always remember about the rebellious Yugoslavia, hindering this process, it was simply bombed. Russia found the strength to survive and resurrected in the Chechen wars, the rest are not, now they are devouring Ukraine in front of our eyes, for debts.
    2. +4
      21 October 2013 15: 22
      Aw! You said it back in 90, you’re like a tryndets without us, and you’ve gone for peace. You leave as much as you say, but something doesn’t happen. You are the most Russian in Russia, and well, you do not live like Arab sheikhs, if you are so smart. If we herders live like you, then who are you?
      Quote: Mikhail M
      The enterprises will close and return to cattle breeding and agriculture, to which their soul lies.
      You tell it to Vasilenko .. laughing He's a "special" on rams and goats ... bully
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 15: 25
        By the way, Tryndec slowly comes and began to attack exactly as we got into the Customs Union. wink
        1. -2
          21 October 2013 15: 29
          Tryndec began to advance earlier, when the industry began to ruin
          1. +2
            21 October 2013 19: 19
            They lived normally before the TS, even the crisis of 2007-2008. in terms of standard of living, it was not particularly reflected, but starting from 2011, the standard of living began to sag sharply.

            My compatriots, whom the Kremlin propaganda did not completely brainwash, will confirm this. Everything rises in price, from cars to medicines.
            1. -1
              21 October 2013 20: 00
              oh just do not, especially about the crisis, you still say that the volumes did not fall into the crisis and all that.
              1. +4
                22 October 2013 17: 29
                You know Vladimir, the layman is deeply violet about the volumes of something there, he just sees that that car, which even though used to cost about 20 thousand greenery, but now almost 40. Even the same AvtoVAZ rose in price, about which he did not want to hear anything ... Well? To whom is this vehicle beneficial? Probably all the same, owners of AvtoVAZ shares and a major seller of raw materials abroad, but this is not at all profitable for the people ...
  5. vladsolo56
    +27
    21 October 2013 07: 28
    I can only say for myself, my ancestors lived in Kazakhstan, Ust-Kamenogorsk from the day it was founded, and that means more than 300 years. And then at one point we suddenly became not root. Why did we decide to leave? The reason is essentially the same, but it is broader. It began with the fact that immediately after the separation of the USSR, the declaration of independence, the Constitution of Kazakhstan says there is an indigenous nation, i.e. Kazakhs and everyone else, is the state language, i.e. Kazakh and the language of interethnic communication i.e. Russian. But one clarification, the Russian language does not have any official rights. Under the same constitution, there is a list of public positions to which compulsory knowledge of the state language applies. At the official level, discrimination of the Russian-speaking population is not approved anywhere. But go to any institution and you will see 99% only national personnel. And this despite the fact that even now Russians make up almost 50% of the population. To enter and, especially, to graduate from a university is not a fundamental problem; getting a job is an even bigger problem. Here are a few reasons for leaving. I don’t intend to come back, I don’t intend to, among my friends there are none too. I'm not sure that those who returned felt joy, felt at home. Rather, this decision is from hopelessness. What awaits them in Kazakhstan is also a question.
    By the way, not a single day did I feel like a stranger in Russia. Not a single insulting word addressed to you.
    But there is no feeling that I am a stranger here, I am quite comfortable just from the feeling that I am among my own.
    1. +2
      21 October 2013 08: 38
      The truth is in your words. hi
    2. v.lyamkin
      +3
      21 October 2013 09: 52
      A small example from the socialist past. After finishing the 8th grade, the elder brother went to enroll (I don't remember how it was called correctly then) at the police school. So, at the level of the medical commission (some experts wrote that it is suitable) the conclusion of the commission: not suitable. I tried to find out why it was not suitable. In an informal setting, it was said: "You are Russian, you will graduate from college and leave for Russia, but we need national cadres." Yes, living in the north of Kazakhstan, I rarely met with nationalism. But still, and not without it.
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 10: 03
        Quote: v.lyamkin
        A small example from the socialist past.

        But how did you not turn to the regional party party? Russian in the Kazakh SSR and the police did not take? But then, without asking anyone, Gorbachev took the head of the Ulyanovsk regional committee to lead the largest republic of the USSR and put Kolbin by his surname.
        You need to look at the national composition of the bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB in the Kazakh SSR - it will immediately be clear who was simply unfit.
        But Kazakhs under the USSR were denied access to many power structures and posts of strategic importance.
        But Russians, and now in the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Security Committee make up a significant share.
        1. v.lyamkin
          -1
          22 October 2013 04: 58
          That you are so brisk now. And what do you want with a 15-year-old boy and the parents of ordinary workers? And you remember examples only from the Gorbachev past, and this happened in earlier times. And we did not live in the regional center, but in such a place that we first had to understand where the regional committee was located, and then still get there.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +2
        21 October 2013 13: 00
        Quote: v.lyamkin
        A small example from the socialist past.

        Eeee, is it in Soviet Kazakhstan, where the law enforcement agencies were 80-90% Russian?
        1. v.lyamkin
          -1
          22 October 2013 04: 58
          Sorry, mistakenly minus.
  6. biglow
    +2
    21 October 2013 07: 39
    With such an attitude towards Russians, Kazakhs dig their grave, they do not understand that no one will protect them from the expansion of China besides Russians. Even here, on the website, Kazakhs write that there are too many Russians in Kazakhstan and this offends them fool
    1. essenger
      -3
      21 October 2013 09: 20
      Quote: biglow
      With such an attitude towards Russians, Kazakhs dig their grave, they don’t understand that no one will protect them from the expansion of China besides Russians.

      Oh come on, protect yourself

      Quote: biglow
      Even here, on the website, the Kazakhs write that there are too many Russians in Kazakhstan and this offends them

      Can I quote?
    2. Gur
      +4
      21 October 2013 15: 31
      Tell me, does Russia not dig its own grave without supporting its compatriots? Russia wants to keep its sphere of influence, but how can it do it when a large part of the Russian population leaves Central Asia? We (Russians) do not feel the attention of our historical homeland, so to speak. And resettlement according to the program, as it is mildly stated in the article, is not very comfortable. And as you know, a holy place does not happen empty; Chinese or Americans will come to the place of Russians. Although the Kazakhs believe in an agreement with China, (although judging by the Ili River, China doesn’t have a very good word), they nod to Russia in case of anything. But nationalism grows stronger as well as stupidity, when teachers, in cases of finding a Russian textbook, are accused of occupation and not patriotism (mild form) from the tsarist time when they see a Russian textbook in them. Kazakhstan itself is increasingly slipping into feudalism (I know that many Kazakhs will spit me out), but I write what I am witnessing. When teachers, technicals work for the school principal (home, garden, cattle), because because you have to hold on to work which is so small in the outback, or another case when there are requisitions for the head for races or elections. Personally, I’m still in Kazakhstan, but already in the rack, I sent my son to study in Belarus (there is no point in studying here, not because of the Kazakh language, but because of the weak teaching staff and general requisitions) So far, the truth has not found application for itself in Russia or Belarus. But honestly, I would live here, I grew up here and this place is dear to me, and I would really like Russia to remember us, just give us double citizenship and we will be happy.
      1. +2
        21 October 2013 15: 33
        but what can I say, you can only breathe
      2. +2
        21 October 2013 16: 54
        Quote: GUR
        Tell me, does Russia not dig its own grave without supporting its compatriots? Russia wants to keep its sphere of influence, but how can it do it when a large part of the Russian population leaves Central Asia? We (Russians) do not feel the attention of our historical homeland, so to speak. And resettlement according to the program, as it is mildly stated in the article, is not very comfortable. And as you know, a holy place does not happen empty; Chinese or Americans will come to the place of Russians. Although the Kazakhs believe in an agreement with China, (although judging by the Ili River, China doesn’t have a very good word), they nod to Russia in case of anything. But nationalism grows stronger as well as stupidity, when teachers, in cases of finding a Russian textbook, are accused of occupation and not patriotism (mild form) from the tsarist time when they see a Russian textbook in them. Kazakhstan itself is increasingly slipping into feudalism (I know that many Kazakhs will spit me out), but I write what I am witnessing. When teachers, technicals work for the school principal (home, garden, cattle), because because you have to hold on to work which is so small in the outback, or another case when there are requisitions for the head for races or elections. Personally, I’m still in Kazakhstan, but already in the rack, I sent my son to study in Belarus (there is no point in studying here, not because of the Kazakh language, but because of the weak teaching staff and general requisitions) So far, the truth has not found application for itself in Russia or Belarus. But honestly, I would live here, I grew up here and this place is dear to me, and I would really like Russia to remember us, just give us double citizenship and we will be happy.

        . It seems to smash the Kazakhstan reality to smithereens and in the terminal only double citizenship is needed and there will be happiness.
        1. -3
          22 October 2013 01: 10
          Quote: Semurg
          and in the end you only need dual citizenship and there will be happiness.

          Here she is the dream of the Limitrophs about a Russian freebie, I used to think that the Kazakhs did not suffer from this.
          1. v.lyamkin
            +1
            22 October 2013 05: 07
            Maybe this is called a freebie. But here is an example of a relative’s freebie: I had to leave Kazakhstan, taking only things. That is, throwing an apartment, a cottage, a garage. I emphasize: abandoning, since there it was no longer bought or sold. And to live in Russia for more than 10 years I had to live in a barracks, whose roof fell over as soon as he left there. Maybe this is normal, but you can’t name a freebie either.
            1. +4
              22 October 2013 08: 44
              Quote: v.lyamkin
              Maybe this is called a freebie. But here is an example of a relative’s freebie: I had to leave Kazakhstan, taking only things. That is, throwing an apartment, a cottage, a garage. I emphasize: abandoning, since there it was no longer bought or sold. And to live in Russia for more than 10 years I had to live in a barracks, whose roof fell over as soon as he left there. Maybe this is normal, but you can’t name a freebie either.


              Can you explain how you can throw an apartment, a cottage, a garage?
              How is this legal possible?
              So people left Arkalyk in 90 - they abandoned apartments. The mayor resettled the whole city in 5 high-rise buildings that were heated due to savings. Then oil grew - the economy came to life - apartment owners arrived and evicted everyone. The right of ownership is inviolable !!!
              Therefore, a fairy tale about abandoned - tell the children.
              Another question is that you didn’t have all of the documents - that means you yourself are not the master. And then friends bought an apartment - and they still have the keys to the garage - ??? - there are no documents for the garage - they put it themselves - that means the authorities will be demolished at any time.
      3. -4
        22 October 2013 01: 09
        Quote: GUR
        , and I would really like Russia to remember us, just give us dual citizenship and we will be happy.

        As well as a double salary and a double bullet in the back of the head.
        1. Gur
          +3
          22 October 2013 07: 40
          Well, what can you expect from "relatives" then, compatriots. You Mlyn can only give dual citizenship to such pi..m as Posner, apparently they are dearer to you, and bring irreparable benefits to the fatherland. And I answer to the one who is higher .--- "It seems to smash the Kazakh reality, but in the end you only need dual citizenship and there will be happiness." - This is the little that the Russian-speaking population needs. The people do not ask for money or other benefits. (For the sake of fairness, it must be said that Kazakhstan normally supports veterans) But they want confidence that they are not abandoned, even if something happens (God forbid).
          1. 0
            22 October 2013 16: 44
            Quote: GUR
            You Mlyn can give dual citizenship only to such pi..m as Posner, they are obviously more expensive for you, and bring irreparable benefit to the homeland.

            Dual citizenship is a loophole for crooks and other evil spirits, I would not give it to anyone.
            1. 0
              22 October 2013 18: 57
              Quote: Setrac
              Dual citizenship is a loophole for crooks and other evil spirits, I would not give it to anyone.

              If you are talking about those in power and preparing the way of "retreat", then yes, if about ordinary Russians in Kazakhstan, then many would have stayed there.
    3. -2
      21 October 2013 17: 33
      Quote: biglow
      With such an attitude towards Russians, Kazakhs dig their grave, they do not understand that no one will protect them from the expansion of China besides Russians. Even here, on the website, Kazakhs write that there are too many Russians in Kazakhstan and this offends them fool

      You’ll protect yourself, the Far East has already been profaned. Stop scaring the Chinese already, I’ll tell you a secret, I don’t give a damn about your scarecrows, no sense, don’t try. laughing
      1. -2
        22 October 2013 00: 36
        Quote: Alibekulu
        You protect yourself, the Far East and already profuci

        and in the Far East know about it?
      2. -2
        22 October 2013 01: 12
        Quote: Alibekulu
        You protect yourself, the Far East and already profuci.

        But go and haven’t profiled.
        Quote: Alibekulu
        all do not care about your scarecrows, no sense no try.

        So thought Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, but Syria does not think so.
      3. Gur
        0
        22 October 2013 07: 43
        I wouldn’t get sick at your place, the laugh is not healthy, it’s not scary, but for God's sake, trips to the Kapchagai bridge, look at the fence (built this year), look at Ili, and then read the analysis of environmentalists if it goes like this, what will happen . I think it will be fun to rock.
        1. +2
          22 October 2013 08: 46
          Quote: GUR
          I wouldn’t get sick at your place, the laugh is not healthy, it’s not scary, but for God's sake, trips to the Kapchagai bridge, look at the fence (built this year), look at Ili, and then read the analysis of environmentalists if it goes like this, what will happen . I think it will be fun to rock.


          The paper will endure everything, show in numbers - how much damage?
          1. Gur
            -3
            22 October 2013 09: 53
            For you it’s not likely, and for many people like you, you don’t even consider it necessary to simply clean up after you have drunk what’s in the mountains near Kapchagay. Numbers are needed, ask any fisherman, he will draw numbers for you. When in the spring, all the fish sailed along Ili, from the channels freezing to hell, to the bottom due to lack of water, Or at the moment you can go ford in some places. And if it’s so interesting to read an article by a Kazakh ecologist, (find on the internet) that due to the lack of proper infusion of Or in Balkhash, Balkhash will begin to dry, salt storms will appear, which in turn will settle in the Alatao mountains, mass melting of glaciers will begin, water will not now Almaty suffices, and as a result of salt erosion, water may not become at all. And cheers long live the steppe. Here are all the arguments and facts. You can read the same thing about Black Irtysh.
            1. +3
              22 October 2013 10: 01
              Quote: GUR
              And if it’s so interesting to read an article by a Kazakh ecologist .... it will start to dry, salt storms will appear, which in turn .... will not become at all.



              “Don't read Soviet newspapers until lunchtime,” otherwise it will seem that we are all going to die.
              We are discussing national and migration policies here, not ecology.
              Although I do not argue - our environment is not a fountain and climate - moving to Thailand for a month for treatment would not hurt everyone.
              1. Gur
                -6
                22 October 2013 10: 21
                Well, if we are discussing migration and national politics, don't fuck it, then beat yourself in the chest and say that we are not afraid of the gray wolf (China). In general, many peoples have lost their fear, they believe that universal brotherhood has already begun. (some have already been counted, and they were much more prosperous than Russia and Kazakhstan) Meanwhile, China is settling into the Uyghur autonomy. And this threat, both environmental and military, was also voiced by the former ambassador of Kazakhstan to China. Why don't you give us a damn about x, if not Russia so America will help. But whether they can, this is a question, well, we have no time for this, we are here deciding which of us is "hu" (xy from xy) Damned not grateful Russian invaders and Kazakhs are great martyrs out of kindness. And in the end, piz .. she can get everything in place.
                1. +4
                  22 October 2013 10: 37
                  Quote: GUR

                  Meanwhile, China is settling in Uyghur autonomy. And the former ambassador of Kazakhstan to China voiced this threat, both environmental and military.


                  I just want to answer: "In the meantime, while our ships plow space ...." good
                  Are you working as a repeater of Murat Auezov? He is a Sinologist, he cannot talk about anything else but about China. He needs to somehow draw attention to his person. By the way, Masimov Uyghur, who we had as an example, was also special in China.
                  In the USSR under Stalin, Russian-Chinese brothers forever. Khrushchev almost brought us to war. In the SCO, everyone has been razed and now China is the main SCO partner for Russia and other members.
                  No need to tell the old Soviet horror story about Chinese small groups of several million here. You know very little about the US geopolitical game to separate Russia and China.
                  1. Gur
                    -2
                    22 October 2013 12: 50
                    Does this thought only amuse you? that the United States will share it all))))) Well, the wolf took pity on the mare. And I see that you know so much about the US plans, and Kazakhstan is seen to have an enviable role there)) Just do not forget to get smallpox vaccinations.
                    1. essenger
                      +2
                      22 October 2013 12: 58
                      Quote: GUR
                      And I look that you know so much about the plans of the United States, and it is obvious to Kazakhstan that an enviable role is assigned there

                      Theoretically, Kazakhstan, as the leader of the Kipchak world, can play a role in the collapse of Russia.
                      But all these are just theories.
                2. +3
                  22 October 2013 20: 26
                  Quote: GUR
                  And in the end, pees ... we can rake everything in place.
                  Gur, that you write Kazakhs understand no less than yours.
                  I repeat: "What exactly can you suggest to eliminate the Chinese problem ?!"
                  1. Gur
                    +1
                    23 October 2013 07: 47
                    What the hell is not visible that they understand it. One bravado.
                    You will not like my proposals)))) My proposal will sound to you like "occupation", "colonization", etc.)) There was already such an experience, there was such a country in the USSR)) And the threat of China was stopped. But seriously, judging by the conversations on the one and on the other hand, we are accumulating contradictions (maybe only on a personal level for now, God forbid that it was so) And also, God forbid, that our rulers had other plans for us Well, if ambitions and resentments on both sides overwhelm the edge, then what suggestions can there be? Everyone will solve their own problems.
  7. +16
    21 October 2013 07: 41
    I myself live near Kazakhstan and I have a lot of relatives there. I don’t know, like others, but my relatives have been living there for the third generation and are not going to move to Russia. They are all happy. But they live in a small town where everyone knows everything from the cradle, and some have mixed families. Maybe all the same here is the problem of big cities? I will not prove anything, just sharing my opinion. hi
    1. +4
      21 October 2013 08: 53
      and some have mixed families

      Here is the key phrase. And in the 40s, my grandmother told the Germans from the Volga region they beat him with whips forcing them to become wives and quite successfully (there were no men to protect) Fortunately, my grandmother was married and had a child, if I had known him figs Amangeldy by Amanzhol Kairbek laughing
      1. +4
        21 October 2013 09: 32
        They brought in wagons from all over the USSR many peoples declared "enemies of the people" - without anything in cattle wagons to the bare steppe. They accepted it according to all the laws of hospitality - 70 years have passed since that tragedy and people are still grateful for help in the tragic hour.
        Today, 130 peoples live in peace and harmony. Fate gave them a second homeland where they took root and consider their home, not a prison.
        No one has returned to the Germans their collective farms, houses and property on the Volga. Khrushchev wanted to give the Germans the Tselinograd region, but the Germans did not want someone else's and only their Volga region. They did not pay black ingratitude for bread and shelter in a dashing year.
        1. +3
          21 October 2013 10: 19
          This, Chechen migrants lived with 129 peoples in peace and harmony, well, you’re a storyteller!
          1. +6
            21 October 2013 10: 22
            Well, Chechens in their second homeland behave respectfully.
            In Chechnya and Ingushetia, if you say that you are from Kazakhstan, they will cover the dastarkhan in any house.
            Relations between Kazakhstan and Chechnya are still preserved. Ramzan Nazarbayev personally awarded the highest order of Chechnya.
            1. +8
              21 October 2013 10: 33
              Here I completely agree with you. Kazakhs in the Caucasus are well received.
              1. Marek Rozny
                +4
                21 October 2013 15: 29
                My father was the zakombat of the Orenburg OMON in the early 90s. Once, during one of the battalion's "Caucasian missions", Chechen fighters kidnapped two soldiers. My father instantly jumped into a UAZ, drove into a Chechen village and ran into the old people, conscience that at one time in distant Kazakhstan the Kazakhs were saved from death, and demanded that the Chechens return the debt in the form of these two soldiers. A couple of hours later, my father returned to the unit with these fighters.
                He had several awards for the Caucasus, although his father was not very proud of them, because he considered this whole mess a "civil war".
                By the way, I’ve constantly heard from different people that even in the years of the meat grinder, a citizen of Kazakhstan (even Russian) could safely be in Chechnya.
                Well, just the other day, I recalled here on the site how Kadyrov personally handed over to a Kazakh cop one scumbag who killed a woman with a child in Astana and then hid in the Caucasus.
            2. +3
              21 October 2013 10: 39
              Quote: Lindon
              Well, Chechens in their second homeland behave respectfully.
              In Chechnya and Ingushetia, if you say that you are from Kazakhstan, they will cover the dastarkhan in any house.
              Relations between Kazakhstan and Chechnya are still preserved. Ramzan Nazarbayev personally awarded the highest order of Chechnya.

              served in the SA and during the epic fight of Middle Asia against the Caucasus, the Chechens said if the Kazakhs leave Middle Asia, they will not come out against us because ours saved many of them after the resettlement. Their memory turned out to be stronger than the local "nemes" casually trying to kick the Kazakhs.
              1. Gur
                -2
                22 October 2013 07: 55
                Tears of tenderness flow down my cheeks, just that this gratitude is not visible today.
                1. +3
                  22 October 2013 09: 49
                  Quote: GUR
                  Tears of tenderness flow down my cheeks, just that this gratitude is not visible today.


                  Do not call Chechens ungrateful.
                  They remember good, but evil is even better.
                  If you have a claim to them, you don’t need all the people here under one comb.
                  1. Gur
                    -4
                    22 October 2013 10: 30
                    Here and there, here and there there is a massacre between Kazakhs and Chechens, probably from an overabundance of feelings of gratitude. I don’t row them all, but I don’t need to sing about universal prosperity either.
                    1. +4
                      22 October 2013 10: 43
                      Quote: GUR
                      Here and there, here and there there is a massacre between Kazakhs and Chechens, probably from an overabundance of feelings of gratitude. I don’t row them all, but I don’t need to sing about universal prosperity either.


                      A massacre happens - and as a thorough and impartial investigation shows - the reason is not because he is a Chechen or Kazakh. But because ordinary crime or domestic showdowns. There is no interethnic here - otherwise a great pogrom of everyone at all would have begun.
                      1. Gur
                        -3
                        22 October 2013 12: 43
                        Dear, powder the brains of someone else's thread. But not for me, a big pogrom is not possible only because the Old is closed right away. Block posts with machine gunners, entry is prohibited. You know a lot about the massacre in Taldy of the Kurgan region, in the Kugalinsky district, Chengildy, Talgar, and much more about which you don’t know. And the reputable massacre is also a crime. In general, you can of course, as Kazakh analysts say, read the mantra about the friendship of peoples, but this does not make the situation any better.
            3. +2
              21 October 2013 10: 41
              Heard from the father-in-law, robberies in the post-war period, stabbing, unwillingness to work, his father worked at the MGB Kaz. SSR in the Kustanai region
              1. +3
                21 October 2013 10: 48
                In the Karganda region, the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is a Chechen - he is also the head of the diaspora. When reckless young Chechens from Russia come hiding from their exploits in Russia - and begin to cross all borders - he personally gives them away - because peace and respect for the diaspora cannot be jeopardized. And they live peacefully - this is how everything is done according to the law.
                1. +7
                  21 October 2013 10: 52
                  Head of the Department of Internal Affairs of the Karaganda region Mergenbai Zhapparov, Kazakh. Something I don’t remember there at the post of a single Chechen.
                  1. +5
                    21 October 2013 11: 10
                    Here you need to look. I have, as they say through trips .. I have a relative there. Lives in Germany, came from Kazakhstan. He’s a Chechen by father, he’s Kazakh by his mother, now he is German by surname and name (they forced him to change there, they were Chechen) .All he says is Kazakh.
                  2. +3
                    21 October 2013 11: 26
                    So, he can only crow, and there at least do not dawn! I agree with you, desa 100%
            4. ed65b
              0
              21 October 2013 16: 44
              Quote: Lindon
              Well, Chechens in their second homeland behave respectfully.
              In Chechnya and Ingushetia, if you say that you are from Kazakhstan, they will cover the dastarkhan in any house.
              Relations between Kazakhstan and Chechnya are still preserved. Ramzan Nazarbayev personally awarded the highest order of Chechnya.

              Yeah, and the Kazakhs "" ran along the mountains with the Chechens.
        2. v.lyamkin
          0
          22 October 2013 05: 12
          Strange: they brought me to an empty steppe, but someone, by all the laws of hospitality, still accepted. But northern Kazakhstan in those days was really almost empty.
      2. Asan Ata
        +1
        22 October 2013 00: 33
        Amanzholuly laughing
  8. +8
    21 October 2013 08: 17
    I know many who have left Kazakhstan. Among them are not only Russians, but also Ukrainians, Germans, Tatars. Return cases are unknown to me. Many say that there would have been more left if not for expensive housing in Russia. I do not blame the Kazakhs and their power for anything. I do not think that there is a purposeful policy of squeezing out Russians. Kazakhs are generally quite good people. But the situation is that way.
    But here's the curious thing. They talk and write a lot about the oppression of Russians in the Baltic states. However, I personally know only one emigrant from there. And I know much more who left Kazakhstan, Central Asia, Moldova, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, and even Ukraine. In general, more and more often come across emigrants from the former republics of the USSR, but for some reason not from the Baltic states. There are clearly few of them.
    1. -1
      21 October 2013 09: 17
      Who from the EU will go to live in Russia? Only crazy.
      They just get over with an EU passport to another rich EU country.
      Nationality has nothing to do with it; the mentality there is no longer allowed to live in Russian reality with corruption and other delights.
      1. +6
        21 October 2013 09: 54
        Quote: Lindon
        in Russian reality with corruption and other delights.

        You will go to Italy, I recommend. There in all the news on TV the most discussed topics - a) football b) corruption c) show business. It is in that order.
        Greece and Bulgaria, too, have not gone anywhere from them.
        If anything, I'm a little familiar with Europe. Corruption is not a purely Russian problem.
      2. +2
        21 October 2013 10: 22
        Well, apparently you have completely finished with corruption in Kazakhstan and other "charms" too, heaven on earth!
        1. -5
          21 October 2013 10: 25
          This is not in my post.
          In Russia corruption is widespread, in the EU it will be difficult for you to find corruption in Sweden, Germany, Holland, Norway, Finland.
          1. +1
            21 October 2013 10: 44
            So, YOU did not answer my question about corruption and other "delights" in Kazakhstan!
            1. -2
              21 October 2013 10: 52
              The scale of corruption in Russia is certainly larger, as is the economy. And if you forget about the difference in the economy, then in Kazakhstan it is a little different. Everywhere has its own specifics - the mentality is different. There is no capital leak in Kazakhstan as in Russia. If everyone takes them abroad, then in Kazakhstan this is not accepted - everything settles right there.
              1. +3
                21 October 2013 11: 29
                I do not believe! Stanislavsky.
              2. v.lyamkin
                0
                22 October 2013 05: 22
                I envy your deep knowledge: Russia, Sweden, Germany, Holland, Norway, Finland. Yes, probably this is not all the states listed. But the WTO in Kazakhstan is somehow not impressive - are you rarely? Or do not everyone write what you know?
                1. +2
                  22 October 2013 08: 55
                  Quote: v.lyamkin
                  I envy your deep knowledge: Russia, Sweden, Germany, Holland, Norway, Finland. Yes, probably this is not all the states listed. But the WTO in Kazakhstan is somehow not impressive - are you rarely? Or do not everyone write what you know?


                  I understand - to call Russia a corrupt state - is it to spit Russian in the face?
                  What do you want to prove to me? It is not so?
                  You’re right in Russian (in the sense of the character of a Russian person) without telling me about it — otherwise we will correspond here for a long time, but there will be no sense.
      3. -2
        21 October 2013 13: 23
        Lindon
        In the Baltics, corruption is even worse than ours. It probably tells you something, the fact that in Lithuania, for example, the population has decreased by one third and every fifth of the remaining Lithuanians works as a cleaner, a collector of vegetables, day laborers and other similar prestigious posts in the EU. And do not weave about the mentality - only a psycho or an impudent liar with such aplomb talks on topics in which he does not understand a bit ... Congratulations! :)))
        Your attitude towards the Russians is understandable. Thank you for not hiding your hatred. :)))
        1. -1
          21 October 2013 13: 35
          Quote: smile
          Lindon
          In the Baltics, corruption is even worse than ours. It probably tells you something, the fact that in Lithuania, for example, the population has decreased by one third and every fifth of the remaining Lithuanians works as a cleaner, a collector of vegetables, day laborers and other similar prestigious posts in the EU. And do not weave about the mentality - only a psycho or an impudent liar with such aplomb talks on topics in which he does not understand a bit ... Congratulations! :)))
          Your attitude towards the Russians is understandable. Thank you for not hiding your hatred. :)))


          Do not blame me for Russophobia. I have no complaints about the Russians.
          We have many mixed families in Kazakhstan - each of them has relatives - Russians, Ukrainians, Jews, etc. We have blood hospitality and Kazakhs have lived with Russians for almost a thousand years.
          If you think that corruption in the Baltic states is higher than in Russia, this is your right. And the population there has decreased - they left migrant workers to rich EU countries - the benefit of EU membership allows - a single European labor market.
          In Russia, if a Russian from the Caucasus comes to look for work in Moscow, they will tell him lumps come in large numbers.
          1. +2
            21 October 2013 14: 06
            Lindon
            Your quotes:

            Who from the EU will go to live in Russia? Only crazy ....
            ... in Russian reality with corruption and other delights.

            They clearly confirm your Russophobia - not only that. that this is a lie (here I am inclined to believe that you are not a deliberate liar, but just a narrow-minded person who weaves about what he knows nothing about). you make derogatory statements about "race". I can imagine. how would you howl. if we started to do the same. So. that it is not necessary to dodge, it looks shameful.
            The population in Lithuania declined by a third, to about a little less than three million. Of the remaining over 600 thousand, migrant workers in the EU are like Tajiks with us. What are you reading? Or can you not understand what you read?
            That honest word, you yourself then saw the EU labor market? :))) In the EU, unemployment is higher than in Russia; there are not enough of them there. And in Lithuania, there’s a complete job with work .... Therefore, a Lithuanian labor migrant with zeal can find, no more ... luck if the woman gets a job as a nanny, and the engineer manages to squeeze the Poles and become a plumber - this is the ultimate dream: ))) and don’t worry. the attitude towards the Lithuanians is the same there. The Lithuanian press, arguing why in Britain they treat Lithuanians disdainfully, therefore. what are we doing in a boorish way ... yeah, the bad influence of the invaders on the wonderful Lithuanian mentality affects ... :)))
            About Moscow ... there are no industrial enterprises, why go there? But we never have anyone fired on ethnic grounds. that ours against the backdrop of yours is the standard of internationalism.
            1. 0
              21 October 2013 14: 37
              Quote: smile
              Lindon
              Your quotes:

              Who from the EU will go to live in Russia? Only crazy ....
              ... in Russian reality with corruption and other delights.

              They clearly confirm your Russophobia - not only that. that this is a lie (here I am inclined to believe that you are not a deliberate liar, but just a narrow-minded person who weaves about what he knows nothing about). you make derogatory statements about "race". I can imagine. how would you howl. if we started to do the same. So. that it is not necessary to dodge, it looks shameful.


              When the arguments end, insults begin.
              If you have read Stalin, then the "rasseyskaya" is taken from him. Stalin specifically used this term to emphasize the backwardness of Russia. Stalin was not a Russophobe like me.
              My use of the term was in the context of high corruption in Russia - you can argue a lot about this, but ROSPIL gave enough examples.
              Take at least the most expensive stadium in the world.
              As you can see, you may be "the most educated". Type in Google Stalin + "scattering" backwardness - increase your education.
              1. 0
                21 October 2013 15: 06
                Lindon
                And for Lenin, the norm was to call someone a "political prostitute." If I call Kazakhstan that way, won't you be offended? :) Or not? :))) That is why I do not allow such statements regarding Kazakhstan. And it doesn't matter to me what Stalin said, an offensive term is an offensive term. By the way. and you treat all the deeds and statements of Stalin with such reverence ... otherwise he talked a lot, especially about the merits of the Russian people ... :)))
                An attempt to cover up his Russophobia and rudeness with Stalin looks pathetic and unconvincing. Doesn’t. Try again.
                As a result, you not only did not apologize for your nationalistic rudeness, but insist on "racial backwardness". I did not expect anything different from a petty and petty Nazi, unworthy of respect. It's amazing you haven't howled about that yet. that I am a chauvinist ... well, or else it will be. :)))
                And I did not insult you, I just stated a fact - you do not know anything about the Baltic States and impudently lie to fill the gaps in knowledge. Insolently, because there are quite a lot of people from there and your lies are too obvious.

                You are free, bye. Good luck in your hard field :)))
                1. +1
                  21 October 2013 16: 07
                  smile
                  And it doesn’t matter to me what smile said, he is also in Africa.
                  1. -3
                    21 October 2013 17: 59
                    Lindon
                    Yeah, understandably, there’s nothing to answer, they were blown away. :)))
                    But for me it is important that for some reason your compatriots have strong Russophobian sentiments on this site. I hope that you accidentally gathered here, and the majority of Kazakhs are not Russophobes ... Well, and that you are not ashamed that you are caught in a lie, and you do not apologize when you were caught in rudeness, and are not able to apologize- just trying to dodge, for me there is nothing surprising - the usual behavior of an ordinary petty nationalist is all standard. :)))
        2. +4
          22 October 2013 08: 51
          Don’t sculpt me your Russophobia.
          I do not like chauvinists - this is true. I treat Russians well.
          Zadolbal the youngster - do not understand the difference between the Russian nation and the corrupt Russian state? If I love Russians, that doesn’t mean that I should love the Russian oligarchic thief - building the most expensive stadiums.
    2. +4
      21 October 2013 13: 16
      Sour
      Well, I'm an emigrant from the Baltic states :))) more than half of my classmates left for Russia. All. those who graduated from Lithuania left. And you do not know anyone from there for the simple reason that the Baltic States are simply microscopic. You should not draw conclusions about the number of those who left only on the basis that you saw them a little.
  9. -4
    21 October 2013 08: 21
    In Russia, the national question is more serious and painful than in Kazakhstan.
    Russia has many national republics where indigenous peoples live.
    In most national republics, the share of Russians ranges from 30 to 50%. The smallest number of Russians is in Ingushetia, Chechnya and Dagestan (less than 5%).

    At the same time, Russia waged a long war in the North Caucasus where separatists squeezed out almost all Russians. Moreover, in Russia itself there is a strong internal migration of non-Russians — Russians to more prosperous Russians — Moscow, Petersburg, etc. To this is added labor migration from the unemployed countries of the CIS - Central Asia, Moldova, the Caucasus, etc.

    Kazakhstan in the national question is more prosperous - first of all, it is necessary to note the ideology of the country's leadership - Nazarbayev is an ardent supporter of preserving the USSR, creating the CU and the Eurasian Union. The country is constantly propagating the Soviet Union's achievements in the friendship of peoples — only if the Russians were the main nation with the USSR, then Kazakhstan was called the state-forming nation in Kazakhstan.
    But no matter how propaganda works, the economic rivals did their job. Mass migration from Kazakhstan began already in the dashing 1988 years - the years of total deficit. The collapse of the USSR was spurred on by departure - from 1992 it began to grow - the peak fell on the 1994 year and the 1999 of the year began to decline and from 2003 turned into the usual migration figures for any country. I give the data in the next post where the main ones leaving Kazakhstan will be indicated !!!
    1. avt
      +2
      21 October 2013 13: 33
      Quote: Lindon
      In Russia, the national question is more serious and painful than in Kazakhstan.
      Russia has many national republics where indigenous peoples live.

      Well, if we take into account the fact that with the separation of the Union republics and the creation of the national states on our basis, over 80% of us cited themselves as Russians, but this word is practically prohibited, only Russians understand. So, the consequences can be very serious in the absence of an adequate domestic policy.
      Quote: Lindon
      Nazarbayev is an ardent supporter of preserving the USSR,

      laughing The legend of the brave warrior who fought for the USSR is still amusing, especially when you know what it was proposed to create in Novo ogarevo, a normal confederation of this kind, also the CIS, but with the name of the USSR and the privatized humpbacked Kremlin, Boriska turned out to be a policeman - he seized the Kremlin cabinet and left only the legend about Asian fighters for the USSR.
      Quote: Lindon
      The country is constantly propagating the Soviet Union's achievements in the friendship of peoples — only if the Russians were the main nation with the USSR, then Kazakhstan was called the state-forming nation in Kazakhstan.

      Yeah, nobody in the USSR was so flattered as the Russians for "great-power chauvinism", even in general, the term was coined, not a nation, but "a community - the Soviet people." Well, now what do we see? It is quite a propaganda of new nationalists, for whom it is already quite natural to see their own "national patriots" and, naturally, "Russian chauvinists." So to poke us that multinational Russia is normal, and it seems so in fact it is, but that those who hold power, that their colleagues in the newly-minted states are afraid as hell of incense that in Russia they would declare the Russians a state-forming nation. Yes, for nothing! This is Empire and chauvinism. But only behind this, in general, the real threat prepared by our probable universal human friends, the real Islamic fascism, is quietly blurred. We are already familiar with it firsthand, but for some reason many in the south believe that this is all nonsense, the same as well as the fact that the Angles launched the same Wahhabism, they say it's not about us, it will carry. Will carry, to bloody diarrhea.
    2. v.lyamkin
      0
      22 October 2013 05: 33
      I will not argue about the current grandeur in the national question in Kazakhstan, because I do not know. But I think that a massive role in this was played by the mass departure of Russian-speaking (Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, etc.) in the 90s.
  10. +11
    21 October 2013 08: 23
    To be honest, as a resident of Kazakhstan, I can say that self-realization is very small, only the lowest business niches are occupied with Russians. Or rather, small business. because a good medium-sized business that consistently brings a good dividend immediately falls under the eyes of any kind of administrative apparatus. Raiding begins, called in the people blackmail and assault. Earthenware arrives and, under the pretext of a roof, offers to add a certain citizen Kairat Mambetov to the list of founders of the company. And then your business will become more solid and without any kind of checks and raids.
    1. +7
      21 October 2013 12: 50
      I completely agree with you. I also live in Kazakhstan since birth, I am a Belarusian, I have only served in the Russian army for 5 years. Nobody oppresses me here, right now there are more Kazakhs, many Russians and Germans left, and as you know an old friend is better than the new two. Separation goes more on rich and poor than on Russian and Kazakhs.
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      21 October 2013 15: 45
      Quote: Scandinavian
      only the lowest business niches are occupied by Russians.

      oh? Call any business sector, from there I will call you a bunch of Russian large entrepreneurs, owners and managers of top companies in Kazakhstan.
  11. +2
    21 October 2013 08: 30
    1989 957 Germans lived in 518 in KazSSR - today there are 180 832 left - a reduction of 5,3 times !!!
    Belarusians had 182 601 - today 63 694 - a reduction of 2,9 times !!
    Ukrainians were 896 240 - today 313 698 - a reduction of 2,8 times!
    Tatars were 327 982 - today 204 171 - a reduction of 1,6 times.
    Russian was 6 227 549 - today 3 726 722 - a reduction of 1,67 times.
    "The dynamics of the migration movement of the population
    Republic of Kazakhstan (Kazakh SSR) "
    1) years 2) immigrants 3) emigrants 4) balance 5) went to Germany
    1975 299,3 394,8 -95,5
    1980 224,9 295,5 -70,6
    1985 254 355,2 -101,2
    1990 179,9 272,5 -92,6
    1991 170,8 228,5 -57,7
    1992 161,5 317,8 -156,3 114
    1993 111,1 330,1 -219 113
    1994 70,4 477,1 -406,7 121
    1995 71,1 309,6 -238,5 177
    1996 53,9 229,4 -175,5
    1997 38,1 299,5 -261,4
    1998 40,6 243,6 -203
    1999 41,3 164,9 -123,6 28,6
    2000 47,4 155,7 -108,3 24,6
    2001 53,5 141,7 -88,2 25,8
    2002 58,2 120,2 -62 20,6
    2003 65,6 73,9 -8,3 13,7
    +2004 (68,3)65,5 2,8 10 XNUMX XNUMX
    +2005 (74,8)52,1 22,7 5,9 XNUMX XNUMX
    2006 66,7 33,7 33
    2007 53,4 42,4 11
    2008 46,1 44,8 1,3
    2009 41,5 34 7,5
    2010 42 26,5 15,5
    As you can see, the Germans went to their historical homeland almost 80%, Ukrainians and Belarusians - 60%, Tatars and Russians 50%. All this happened during the dashing years of the collapse of the USSR economy, which continued to zero.
  12. +5
    21 October 2013 08: 30
    The most unfortunate and shameful part of the genocide is that the Kazakhs, although not on a global scale, were still implicated in the attitude towards the Russian-speaking population. I lived in the KZ until the age of 16 and now I often find it there, the attitude is certainly much better now and the youth who were in the 90s extremely aggressive then attuned to the Russian-speaking being now grown up and now able to soberly assess past life, the Russian-speaking population is quite warm and friendly, which cannot be said about today's youth.
    1. +3
      21 October 2013 09: 17
      By the way, in Omsk a lot of Kazakhs live the coolest I meet familiar Kazakhs who moved to Russia even earlier than me laughing . Many Kazakhs say that we in Omsk live on their land, supposedly keep quiet laughing
      1. Asan Ata
        +3
        22 October 2013 00: 43
        Well, yes, Omsk is a native Russian land. Do not make me laugh. A significant part of my family lives in the Omsk region since the time of the antediluvian.
    2. -1
      21 October 2013 09: 55
      German Kazakhs accuses genocide ... wow ...
      Reminds Germany’s claims to Russia after Biryulyovo.
      Hitler and K in the Kazakhs write more with concentration camps and sonderkommandy.
      The Russians know very well who helped them stop the real genocide in Europe.
      I understand in the USSR and in the Kazakh SSR we called you fascists at school — but it was propaganda — every week films about the war were played.
      It was hard for the Germans to live in the USSR.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. -1
        21 October 2013 12: 18
        No, I didn’t accuse him saying as is. You immediately poke fascism at the sight of a German is normal and when people are massively rowing out of the country it’s normal, while giving all the strength and health on the land with which I then had to leave. I don’t want to wash clothes, I say that it was wrong..
        1. +3
          21 October 2013 12: 37
          Germany itself took the Germans. No one with a machine gun drove them to stand in lines at the German embassy. They sold everything - they had a passport and dollars on their hands, and that was it. 5000 rubles still wooden per bunk at the embassy + loaf of bread.
          Then a small part of the Germans returned to Kazakhstan - the old people could not learn the language and adopt a new mentality. Today in Kazakhstan from 957 518 Germans - today there are 180 832 left !!!
          Germany has launched a new project - "a new homeland in Kazakhstan". It is more profitable for Berlin to support the diaspora in Kazakhstan than to take them to Germany so that they live on welfare. And in Kazakhstan there is always work for the Germans !!!
          Google German newspapers and theaters in Kazakhstan.
          1. -1
            21 October 2013 14: 04
            You know, there is work for sure, and there are different people, and you can come to some with tea and a glass of tea, while others, like our director of the state farm, were nationalist and he forbade his son from playing with me so he draped into quiet things and even asked me to seize lard. So the sea itself I know, but that's just what they are waiting for us there (to plow)
        2. +2
          21 October 2013 13: 36
          Communism is also a German idea, although Engels must be checked for circumcision.
          1. +2
            21 October 2013 13: 54
            Have you checked Christ yet?
            They say that the Jew was also.
            1. +3
              21 October 2013 14: 27
              Caution, Allah will punish.
  13. +3
    21 October 2013 08: 31
    Quote: Lindon
    In most national republics, the proportion of Russians ranges from 30 to 50%.

    This is not entirely true. In Adygea there are Adygs 26%, in Karelia only 9% of Karelians, in Buryatia less than a third of the Buryats, in the Komi Republic "titular" 23%, in Mordovia 40%, in Udmurtia 28%, in Khakassia 12% and so on.
    1. 0
      21 October 2013 08: 54
      This is a quote from the wiki - is there a fix?
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 10: 07
        Who cares? At least from Wiki, at least from not from Wiki.
        There is a book "Results of the All-Russian Population Census", Moscow, 2011. Buy and read. The numbers are the same. Or fix it?
        1. +1
          21 October 2013 10: 35
          Everyone has the right to their source.
          Wiki can be fixed - yours is unlikely.
  14. +6
    21 October 2013 08: 41
    from the Don.
    I have nothing against the Kazakhs. But I have a friend who left there. What moved me? The title of the Kazakhs, hopelessness for children. And what will happen after Nazarbayev left? And this uncertainty. But there is no holy place! The Chinese will take the place of Russians!
    1. 0
      21 October 2013 08: 59
      Yes, the Germans left here - so hard-working, but what to do?
      The USSR opened the borders, allowed migration - the people and threw - the Germans to Germany, the Jews to Israel (or the USA, Germany), the Greeks to Greece, the Ukrainians to Ukraine, the Belarusians to Belarus, the Russians to Russia, etc.
      Kazakhstan in 1988-2000 is not the sweetest place for the life and future of children !!!
      There was no Moscow level here - life began to improve when oil rose above 30 dollars. In Kazakhstan, apart from the mines, there was nothing special - not televisions, diesel locomotives, wagons, helicopters - not even toilet paper.
      1. 225chay
        +4
        21 October 2013 10: 36
        Quote: Lindon
        There was no Moscow level here - life began to improve when oil rose above 30 dollars. In Kazakhstan, apart from the mines, there was nothing special - not televisions, diesel locomotives, wagons, helicopters - not even toilet paper.

        I don’t know how now, but in Soviet times when I was still serving urgent
        In the north-east of Kazakhstan, at least Pavlodar:
        -powerful tractor factory (PTZ);
        aluminum plant;
        chemical factory;
        -Oil refinery with an installed capacity of 6 million tons;
        fish factory;
        -multiple CHPPs (electric power production is good due to open-pit coal mining)
        Well, the little things a bunch of all kinds of factories and a huge number of construction projects - construction projects of the internationalists of the entire USSR))
        Is there really nothing?
        1. +2
          21 October 2013 16: 29
          The tractor plant has long stood up, on its base an enterprise has been established for the production of pipes and rolled products, about two thousand people work (25 thousand worked on the tractor), the aluminum works, the state's share I do not remember what it is, the average salary. about 15 thousand in rubles. The chemical plant also partially works. The oil refinery works. There is no fish factory. I don’t know what is at its base now. The CHP is in private hands or corporations (with little government involvement) Of the three concrete products, one seems to work a little. electrolysis plant in 2009. Now private traders are building everything, different plants and enterprises.
        2. v.lyamkin
          -3
          22 October 2013 05: 57
          I support, Lindon has some one-sided knowledge of Kazakhstan, I repeat - probably rarely happens. He would be nice to know, not only about the industry of Pavlodar, but also eastern Kazakhstan - Ust-Kamenogorsk (titanium-magnesium, lead-zinc plants).
          1. +3
            22 October 2013 08: 59
            Quote: v.lyamkin
            I support, Lindon has some one-sided knowledge of Kazakhstan


            Don’t be offended - that guy only served in Pavlodar and described what he knows. But I wrote for the whole of Kazakhstan.
            In my post there was a thesis that in Kazakhstan there was no assembly of diesel locomotives, helicopters, etc. And this one writes to me that in Pavlodar everything was in bulk.
            In Moscow, too, there is a lot of fucking, but all of Russia is not Moscow unfortunately.
            I will take your assessment of my knowledge to your carelessness.
    2. +2
      21 October 2013 11: 19
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      from Don. I have nothing against the Kazakhs. BUT. There is a friend who left there. What moved you?
      Kostanaidan. good "Tobyl-champion"
      1st: the Russians had a place to run. Kazakhs would also have fled to Russia (central), but the status of a Russian who moved from Kazakhstan and a Kazakh is incomparable. Yes, Russian Kazakhs were called "Kazakhs", but nevertheless they could "merge" with the local population. And the Kazakh who arrived automatically became a "lump" or "Chukmek".
      2nd; the Russians had someone to run to. As a rule, they had relatives or friends in the Russian Federation, i.e. they were not driving to an empty place. The Kazakhs did not have such an advantage, acre of border regions, which for the Kazakhs "their own land".
      3 the Russians had something to run to. Russians in Kazakhstan in Soviet times, and even now constituted a stable middle class. Actually in Soviet Kazakhstan, they were in a privileged position.
      In the crisis of the 90s, the "flight of the Kazakhs" somehow passed unnoticed, but they fled, for the most part, from the dying aul (village) to the cities. In our village, they told such a case. The parents brought their daughter from Turgai to their place. She had stomach problems. Then, in Turgay, they ate only meat, banally there was no other food. And the body, unaccustomed to only meat food, just stopped taking it. I had to urgently take her out of there and already at home solder and feed her with her usual food.
      Further. From the hopelessness of 90's, Kazakhs also fled to Russia, but the Russians do not notice this ... fool Kazakhs, as a rule, emigrated to the regions of Russia bordering on Kazakhstan, which they did not perceive as foreign lands. And, since there many of them had relatives and friends. The flow of Kazakh immigrants was so large that in the Omsk region sentiments against "come in large numbers" began to grow among Russians. During the elections in one of the cities of Omsk, one candidate for mayor pedaled this in his election campaign. And he was elected under the slogan "against come in large numbers."
      1. essenger
        +3
        21 October 2013 12: 15
        Quote: Alibekulu
        "Tobyl-champion"

        Salem, Alibekuly
        Toby has long forgotten how to play normally)))))
        1. +2
          21 October 2013 14: 08
          Quote: Essenger
          Salem, Alibekuly Tobil has long forgotten how to play normally)))))
          Shalom hi Essenger ...
          So just the vector of football policy has changed dramatically. And this could not but affect ..
          Now the focus is on local personnel. Which I think is absolutely correct. It is much better that the "guys from the local yard" play and / or train. This is also an incentive for children: "Vaughn Sanka with KSK, Kazbek play with KZhBI and you can do it." The head coach of Kostanay is Malyshev.
          We will endure "our shot" after all, not an alien Varangian. And, so you could easily "buy" your Lyubko Petrovich. UEFA Champions Cup, once took .. "Taraz" last year raised.
      2. Marek Rozny
        0
        21 October 2013 12: 25
        Quote: Alibekulu
        During the elections in one of the cities of Omsk, one candidate for mayor pedaled this in his election campaign. And he was elected under the slogan "against come in large numbers."

        Yes, in general, the city administration in Omsk has to a large extent always consisted of ex-Kazakhstanis))) Including the governor Polezhaev himself, who for a long time led the North Kazakhstan region))) So the candidate was aiming not only as "guest workers", but also to the then administration. True, Polezhaev and other Omsk officials moved there back in Soviet times, and most often by distribution. But nevertheless, our fellow countrymen)
      3. The comment was deleted.
  15. +7
    21 October 2013 08: 45
    Recently, news came from Alma-Ata. The niece is getting married. For a Kazakh. One of the nephews, though second cousins, is married to a Kazakh woman. My niece also graduated from the Kazakh department. In Russian, by the way, places were occupied by persons of "indigenous" nationality. Even in Soviet times, there were quotas of places for education for persons of indigenous nationality that non-Kazakhs could not occupy. Life flows.
    The main reason for Russians to leave Kazakhstan is the uncertainty for the future of their children. So to speak "creeping nationalism". And it is in the power. You can fight the "household" nationalists.
    I think that half of those who left would have remained if Russian was the second state language. "The language of interethnic communication" does not give guarantees.
    1. +1
      21 October 2013 09: 03
      In Kazakhstan there was a "melting pot" created by Stalin there are more than 130 nationalities !!! Mixed marriages in Kazakhstan have always been prohibitive since the days of the USSR. During Soviet times, children from such marriages were called "36mi" - after the name of a popular brand of tea in the USSR, a mixture of Indian and Georgian.
      At 80, 36 already accounted for up to 30% of all children. Now this trend continues - mixed marriages here have long been the norm.
  16. sol
    +3
    21 October 2013 08: 52
    Quote: Scandinavian
    To be honest, as a resident of Kazakhstan, I can say that self-realization is very small, only the lowest business niches are occupied with Russians. Or rather, small business. because a good medium-sized business that consistently brings a good dividend immediately falls under the eyes of any kind of administrative apparatus. Raiding begins, called in the people blackmail and assault. Earthenware arrives and, under the pretext of a roof, offers to add a certain citizen Kairat Mambetov to the list of founders of the company. And then your business will become more solid and without any kind of checks and raids.


    This applies not only to the Russians, but also to the Kazakhs, here nationality does not matter, the agashki don’t care who to protect, here, as they say, “only business is nothing personal”. These are the grimaces of capitalism, lately, many compatriots from the former USSR have had an epiphany on this issue, it’s a bit too late.
    And migration is mainly connected with the fact that people are simply looking for where it is better, Russians just have a place to go in this matter. And where to go to the indigenous?
  17. +1
    21 October 2013 08: 58
    We have been working with a guy from Kazakhstan for 8 years, and received a Russian passport only last year. Mess
    1. 0
      21 October 2013 09: 05
      But half of Kyrgyzstan has Russian passports.
      This is corruption - the Russians do not pay because they should be given a passport, the Kyrgyz pay and they are given without problems.
    2. +2
      21 October 2013 09: 59
      To work, study or do business in Russia, Russian citizenship is not very necessary. It is needed for the civil service, for promotion to deputies, etc. .. In fact, the problem for the repatriation of Russians is the high cost of housing, and not citizenship. In Russia, if there is housing, you can do without citizenship. Moreover, they will give it sooner or later.
      But if you do not have housing in Russia, then citizenship will not help here.
  18. Igor 3456
    +2
    21 October 2013 09: 09
    I was born and live in Central Kazakhstan, I work in construction. More than half of the directors of construction companies of a non-titular nationality are Russians, Armenians, Moldavians, Ukrainians, Germans, Jews, Koreans, etc. Who said that there is no way for self-realization? And I still don’t know the Kazakh language, which is very bad, since I decided for myself a long time ago what to learn. And look carefully at the migration data - the number of emigrants has decreased by more than 10 times, which says a lot.
  19. +3
    21 October 2013 09: 34
    Quote: zol
    This applies not only to Russians, but also to Kazakhs, here nationality does not matter,

    I did not begin to write more extensively and give more examples where nationalism is manifested. BUT I want to say that when you see a European person, or rather a Slavic person, the desire to profit from someone else’s good only increases and this can only be explained by the fact that we are many and you live with us. Big brother is far away. About people from the southern regions in Kazakhstan, a separate speech. They breed their Kazakh brothers and throw them, and the Rusaks are even more so. In general, wild morals and the Stone Age are still in the southern regions. To civilization like to the moon. But the fact that there is uncertainty ahead in the future for me and my children is a fact.
    1. 0
      21 October 2013 09: 42
      Quote: Scandinavian
      Quote: zol
      This applies not only to Russians, but also to Kazakhs, here nationality does not matter,

      I did not begin to write more extensively and give more examples where nationalism is manifested.


      What is called nationalism is when there are parties of skinheads, raids on chocks and black-assed are arranged - this is nationalism.
      And what you call is everyday nationalism. Neighbor - there is no neighbor, no, no, yes, he will oppress him because he is a different nation. This is everywhere and in the USSR was commonplace.
    2. +1
      21 October 2013 10: 14
      Quote: Scandinavian
      Quote: zol
      This applies not only to Russians, but also to Kazakhs, here nationality does not matter,

      I did not begin to write more extensively and give more examples where nationalism is manifested. BUT I want to say that when you see a European person, or rather a Slavic person, the desire to profit from someone else’s good only increases and this can only be explained by the fact that we are many and you live with us. Big brother is far away. About people from the southern regions in Kazakhstan, a separate speech. They breed their Kazakh brothers and throw them, and the Rusaks are even more so. In general, wild morals and the Stone Age are still in the southern regions. To civilization like to the moon. But the fact that there is uncertainty ahead in the future for me and my children is a fact.

      what is most interesting on the next branch on awarding our akim with the Order of Russia, there are only 5 comments and here where you need to get Kazakhstan 70 comments. By the way, our akim is southerner and this did not prevent our local Russians from going out with a request for rewarding to the Russian embassy, ​​this is to the fact that in the south "Sapsem bad."
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 10: 17
        As a sculpture in Gdansk, it’s not a pity to water it with govon.
        As the memorial to the heroes of the Second World War in Kazakhstan was erected, so thank you won’t be questioned.
        1. +4
          21 October 2013 13: 43
          Those. Monument to the heroes of the Second World War, Kazakh favor to Russians?
          1. 0
            21 October 2013 13: 51
            Well, what am I talking about?
            Russian and so everyone should.
            What thanks - forget it.
            1. -3
              22 October 2013 01: 20
              Quote: Lindon
              Well, what am I talking about?
              Russian and so everyone should.
              What thanks - forget it.

              Do you think that the Second World War - the Great Patriotic War 1941-45 is not your war. This is not a question but a statement.
              1. +1
                22 October 2013 09: 03
                Quote: Setrac

                Do you think that the Second World War - the Great Patriotic War 1941-45 is not your war. This is not a question but a statement.


                Russians do not ascribe words to a person if he did not say this.
                By taking part in the Great Patriotic War I am proud of my country and countrymen.
                The message was to the participants of such sites - here some argue that the Russians saved the Kazakhs from the Nazis. It was to such users that it was addressed.
                I don’t want to be misunderstood or interpreted.
                1. -2
                  22 October 2013 15: 39
                  Quote: Lindon
                  As the memorial to the heroes of the Second World War in Kazakhstan was erected, so thank you won’t be questioned.

                  Your words. Attention question, thank you for what? For a monument to the heroes of the war, including the Kazakhs, or for the participation of Kazakhstan in the war?
  20. +8
    21 October 2013 09: 46
    Such a strong impression that the author understands by all Kazakhstan only Almaty. It’s just that the article describes exactly the Almaty realities. In reality, in all regions of Kazakhstan there is a different situation with migration and interethnic relations.
    The Russians who settled in Kazakhstan, by and large, are happy with everything, and everywhere a compromise can be reached. There is only one thing that scares people - possible radicalization after Nazarbayev's inevitable departure. Among the Kazakh elites, there are enough of those who are ready to play this card, and enough of the poor population to implement all this, and there are enough international players who are ready to "help".
    1. +1
      22 October 2013 12: 23
      Not really about Almaty! Here is Taraz or Shymkent it is ...
  21. +3
    21 October 2013 09: 47
    Quote: Lindon
    What is called nationalism is when there are parties of skinheads, raids on chocks and black-assed are arranged - this is nationalism.
    And what you call is everyday nationalism. Neighbor - there is no neighbor, no, no, yes, he will oppress him because he is a different nation.

    It doesn’t matter which adjective the word nationalism faces. Household or neighborly. Large or small. Fact.
    1. 0
      21 October 2013 10: 11
      You are an idealist. Don't discriminate against anyone? by gender, age, religious grounds? Just do not lie - start with yourself.
      Domestic nationalism exists beautifully in thin. literature and cinema of modern Russia - you just don’t notice it - even watching the news on TV.
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 10: 39
        Quote: Lindon
        What is called nationalism is when there are parties of skinheads, raids on chocks and black-assed are arranged - this is nationalism.

        Nevertheless, despite such atrocious mass Nazism, there is no outflow of non-Russian population from Russia. Everything is very much the other way around.
        Everything is fine with you, of course. No skinheads. Tolerance and benevolence. Only for some reason "non-title" ones scatter in all directions.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +3
          21 October 2013 11: 28
          They "scattered" in the 90s from the total lack of money and unemployment. After the collapse of the USSR, Kazakhstan was in an even bigger ass than Russia or Uzbekistan. There was no work, no money, people were looking for any opportunity to leave. And they left. Almost fifteen years ago, the situation in the economy began to gradually stabilize and improve. The outflow of the population fell sharply, but more people came to KZ. As a result, the demographic figures were corrected even in comparison with the best years of the Kazakh SSR. And the birth rate is growing, and the migration balance is not bad.
          By the way, hell knows where the author dug up the figure that from Kazakhstan only Muslims left as much as 2,5 million people. These are generally "international" organizations. We have so many Russian-speaking people left over the years of independence.
          In general, a long time ago, the number of people leaving the KZ in the Russian Federation was almost equal to the number of people leaving the RF in the KZ. If, on the basis of those who left Kazakhstan, a stupid conclusion is made that Russians are oppressed in the KZ, then how can we explain the mass migration from Russia to Kazakhstan?
          And here is just the news:

          October 12 2013
          Chairman of the Agency for Statistics Alikhan Smailov:
          "Following the results of 8 months, the number of people leaving Kazakhstan has decreased by almost 18 percent (compared to last year - Author's note) and amounted to 15 people" ...
          He also added that the number of immigrants decreased by 30 percent and amounted to 14 101 people.
          "This is due to the fact that we have suspended the issuance of quotas for oralmans. During the period of gaining independence, about 1,5 million people entered the country, of which about 700 thousand are Kazakhs ", - the head of department noted.

          A strange nationalist state. Of the 1,5 million immigrants, most are not ethnic Kazakhs.
  22. Peaceful military
    +3
    21 October 2013 10: 02
    We, here in the former Estland province / ESSR, are completely slurping all this. The title hate us and squeeze us in every way state with the motto "plats puhtaks" (we will clear the area).
    BUT!
    And in Russia, to put it mildly, they are not waiting for us ...
    And here, in Estonia, there are also the graves of parents, and children / grandchildren, and housing.
    1. essenger
      +1
      21 October 2013 10: 13
      Quote: Peaceful military
      The title ones hate us and squeeze us out in every possible way under the state motto "plats puhtaks" (let's clear the site).

      So welcome to Russia.
  23. +4
    21 October 2013 10: 08
    I want to say about the Russian bureaucracy.
    All those who moved to Russia received only pleasure from communicating with the faces of the FMS.
    It would be great if the authorities dropped on the subject of assistance to immigrants.
    1. +2
      21 October 2013 10: 19
      It is necessary, like the Kirghiz, to shove money and even without knowing a word in Russian, to have a Russian passport. The FMS loves such people, but when a Russian arrives, they will say "hicks have come in large numbers" (hinting that you don’t give money).
  24. shim
    +2
    21 October 2013 10: 18
    Good morning, you can stipulate anything and blame anyone, but the common people have nothing to do with it (I mean the Kazakhs themselves), the main problem of the people of Kazakhstan, and in particular the Kazakhs, is not in the Russians, but because they themselves are fragmented, There are 3 zhuzes, both urban and aul, as well as Kazakh-speaking and Russian-speaking, and this confrontation is breaking out on us (on Russians), I certainly don’t understand why the authorities went about the aul, probably thinks that this is the most dangerous part of the population (and In this they are right, more than 80% of the population of the aul lives below the poverty line, and naturally they are not happy with the state of things), and therefore the government implements Kazakh-speaking, slowly but surely, and lies when it says that Kazakh does not interfere with Russian, but where one Kazakh-speaking space expands , then another Russian-language is invariably declining. But according to statistics, it is not worth believing that the number of both Russians and Kazakhs is decreasing, and there are more Kazakhs in cities, but they go there from villages, and villages die, and Russian Russians occupied their own niche in this, Russians are engineers, accountants and middle managers, and the Kazakh is the director, the brother of this director is his deputy, well, simple hard workers.
  25. Peaceful military
    +2
    21 October 2013 10: 25
    Quote: Essenger
    Quote: Peaceful military
    The title ones hate us and squeeze us out in every possible way under the state motto "plats puhtaks" (let's clear the site).

    So welcome to Russia.

    You probably have not read my comment, where I said
    And in Russia, to put it mildly, they are not waiting for us ...
    And here, in Estonia, there are also the graves of parents, and children / grandchildren, and housing.
    hi
    1. essenger
      +2
      21 October 2013 10: 41
      peaceful military
      why don't they wait? like there is some kind of program there for the resettlement of Russians in Russia
      1. +2
        21 October 2013 10: 45
        Quote: Essenger
        like there is some kind of program for the resettlement of Russians in Russia



        To take advantage of this ...., it is necessary that it is very specifically pressed.
        1. +1
          21 October 2013 12: 21
          How did the Germans take Germany away?
          Or how the Jews who were taken by Israel, Germany and the United States.
          I must honestly admit that since Russia belongs to the Russians living in the CIS, so no country is related anymore.
          The Kazakhstan program works much better. A significant number of Kazakh families from abroad returned to their homeland in Kazakhstan - the rampart was so large that the state even suspended the program.
          And the Russian - they want to bring 5 million Russians from the CIS per 3,7mln from Kazakhstan, and 20 thousand comes !!!!
          This is a complete failure.
          1. Peaceful military
            +1
            21 October 2013 13: 32
            Quote: Lindon
            How did the Germans take Germany away?
            Or how the Jews who were taken by Israel, Germany and the United States.
            I must honestly admit that since Russia belongs to the Russians living in the CIS, so no country is related anymore.
            The Kazakhstan program works much better. A significant number of Kazakh families from abroad returned to their homeland in Kazakhstan - the rampart was so large that the state even suspended the program.
            And the Russian - they want to bring 5 million Russians from the CIS per 3,7mln from Kazakhstan, and 20 thousand comes !!!!
            This is a complete failure.

            Alas!
            But our titles have surpassed Russia here, announcing "Estonians from abroad (correct), all to the Motherland with their own means." In Canada, the USA, Australia and Sweden there were about 100 thousand of them at that time.They tried, but they were told that we were waiting not for how much you, but how much your money, besides, you must renounce your citizenship, which would be a loss for pensioners good pension ... This time.
            And two. In Russia, Kazakhstan and Abkhazia, there are also about 30 thousand Estonians. They were told that they were not Estonians and there was nothing for them to do here.
      2. Peaceful military
        +3
        21 October 2013 10: 46
        Quote: Essenger
        peaceful military
        why don't they wait? like there is some kind of program there for the resettlement of Russians in Russia

        Exactly sort of.
        And again, you have not read my comment, which says
        And here, in Estonia, there are also the graves of parents, and children / grandchildren, and housing.
        1. -1
          21 October 2013 11: 05
          Quote: Peaceful military
          Quote: Essenger
          peaceful military
          why don't they wait? like there is some kind of program there for the resettlement of Russians in Russia

          Exactly sort of.
          And again, you have not read my comment, which says
          And here, in Estonia, there are also the graves of parents, and children / grandchildren, and housing.

          Do you have the status of an Estonian citizen? if you live, participate in elections and through your deputies get your way, if not, fulfill the requirements and get citizenship. Estonia is almost Europe why go to Russia? my classmate left for Kaliningrad to the question that he said so far that this is Europe and not "race" and over time they will become a part of it.
          1. Peaceful military
            +1
            21 October 2013 11: 44
            Sagat!
            I do not need the advice of outsiders, especially fans of Europe. hi
            1. +1
              21 October 2013 12: 05
              Andrei. What Europe does not like. Many of the things in their lives would not be bad for us to adopt, of course, now it will begin about blue and so on, but I'm not talking about that. : wink
              1. Peaceful military
                0
                21 October 2013 13: 36
                Quote: Semurg
                Andrei. What Europe does not like. Many of the things in their lives would not be bad for us to adopt, of course, now it will begin about blue and so on, but I'm not talking about that. : wink

                To adopt, does not mean to treat the geyrop with reverence. I lived in Sweden, I know what I'm talking about.
            2. essenger
              0
              21 October 2013 12: 12
              peaceful military
              kas sa oskad eesti keelt?
              1. Peaceful military
                0
                21 October 2013 13: 16
                Quote: Essenger
                peaceful military
                kas sa oskad eesti keelt?

                Jah, ma oskan eesti keeles, kui inglis, kui vene. Aga miks te kusite?
                1. essenger
                  +4
                  21 October 2013 13: 46
                  Quote: Peaceful military
                  Quote: Essenger
                  peaceful military
                  kas sa oskad eesti keelt?

                  Jah, ma oskan eesti keeles, kui inglis, kui vene. Aga miks te kusite?

                  good , because here the representatives of the Russian diaspora do not know the Kazakh language. I wanted to know how things were going there. I don’t know Estonian, but there is a familiar Estonian. I know some phrases.
                  1. Peaceful military
                    +1
                    21 October 2013 14: 12
                    Quote: Essenger
                    Quote: Peaceful military
                    Quote: Essenger
                    peaceful military
                    kas sa oskad eesti keelt?

                    Jah, ma oskan eesti keeles, kui inglis, kui vene. Aga miks te kusite?

                    good , because here the representatives of the Russian diaspora do not know the Kazakh language. I wanted to know how things were going there. I don’t know Estonian, but there is a familiar Estonian. I know some phrases.

                    Tore, tervitage teda minu poolt!
                    Unfortunately, we have the same story as yours. Just as there was no high-quality teaching of the Estonian language in the ESSR, 99% of Estonians are responsible for the fault of local authorities, and now, for the same fault.
                    Although of course, he who does not want, he is looking for a reason, and he who wants, he is looking for an opportunity.
                    Distracted by the positivist.
                    I recalled a case.
                    I was on a business trip in Alma-Ata, stayed at the Zhetysu hotel and was in uniform (not in civilian clothes).
                    I’m walking along the corridor of the hotel, and a cadet is coming towards me, and there is zero action. Nevermind yourself, future officer. I told him: - Comrade cadet, come to me. He came up and, as expected, introduced himself and reported that he had arrived at my command. I was astonished, the accent and surname are Estonian. Everything was relieved for me, I got him in my room and ... He, as it turned out, also lived in Tallinn, not far from our old apartment. smile
              2. -3
                21 October 2013 13: 42
                essenger
                Ir ka that gift pasakishi? Eyk ish cha, mano draugas!
                1. essenger
                  +4
                  21 October 2013 13: 52
                  hi Smile

                  Quote: smile
                  Ir ka that gift pasakishi? Eyk ish cha, mano draugas!

                  What? I didn't get you.
              3. Peaceful military
                +2
                21 October 2013 13: 47
                Quote: Essenger
                peaceful military
                kas sa oskad eesti keelt?

                PS
                Ja laseme kõnetlemisel TE ütlema. Me ei joo brüderschaft. hi
          2. -1
            21 October 2013 13: 39
            Semurg
            But to hell with him all over m ... de Kaliningrad will always be a Russian city! And I don’t even feel sorry for your moron .. a classmate who is eager to join Europe in this way ... on the contrary, I would be glad if he got a job as a day laborer in the EU (and who else could they take such a worthless and near?) And I would have completely sipped European hospitality, I would have immediately loved Russian ... :)))

            I earnestly ask you not to use the derogatory term "race" to designate Russia. Of course, I understand that you hate us, but keep yourself within the framework - no one here allows you to speak derogatoryly about Kazakhstan. Or do you think that you can do anything?
            1. 0
              21 October 2013 15: 27
              smil.race my you race. this is from the song of the group anybody can start accusations of hatred towards their state from them, but "rashka" sounds disdainful. about a classmate settled down well, he enjoys life. he is Russian himself why should he not like Russians?
              1. -1
                21 October 2013 16: 17
                Semurg
                You perfectly understood me about the term "race", do not pretend to be ... dull. The request remains.

                The fact that your classmate is Russian does not change anything - the Russian idiot who is eager for tearing away the Kaliningrad region is no different from the Kazakh one - the essence is the same. I hope now he got rid of idiotic dreams and faith in a European paradise. Yes, and he clearly developed an opinion about Russia in Kazakhstan, then everything is clear? :))) There are Russians in Lithuania. led by a total quarter-century Russophobic propaganda, who also believe. worse than the Russian animals there. So, that your classmate is not such a rare occurrence - there is a significant part of the wetlands of the same opinion. :)))
                1. +2
                  21 October 2013 16: 39
                  smil.pro Russians who were led to propaganda in Lithuania, look in the mirror and see the same result only in relation to non-Russians. About "race" forbid singing this song to me later with claims.
                  1. -1
                    21 October 2013 17: 46
                    Semurg
                    Alas, unfortunately, what discrimination of Russian-speaking people I learned in my own way is much more convincing than any propaganda. especially. that then, when my worldview developed, the whole perestroika state propaganda machine just about everything blamed the Russians. Really forgot? :))) For example, I remember very well how the elbon sent a train of miners to Lithuania to convince the Russian-speaking population of Lithuania of that. that we are not good occupiers. Helmets pounded in Vilnius ... loafers ... since then I hate miners ... :))) So. that my beliefs were formed contrary to official propaganda.
                    And here is the answer, a clear victim of propaganda - nobody tried to make you a second-rate person.
                    And yet, anyone who reads my comments understands. that I’m not good only for non-Russian Natsiks who lie about Russians. And that. I do not touch them while they are silent. I pull my own. But you are not. This is the difference between us, clearly illustrating which of us ... :)))
                    1. +3
                      21 October 2013 18: 59
                      smile. miners with helmets were banging now you have hatred of miners ...))) maybe not? hatred is bad for your health. into the account of which of us hu ...))) to prove this is your personal bzik. I'm on this big and fat, my distant Baltic friend.
                      1. -2
                        21 October 2013 19: 45
                        Semurg
                        Well, the fir trees ... Sagat, haven't you seen the emoticon I set after this phrase? We are not arguing with you for the first time, it’s time, as normal opponents, to stop pretending to be unreasonable :)))) ... so that bzik is still yours ... my very distant Central Asian friend ... :))))
                      2. +1
                        21 October 2013 23: 58
                        f) With all due respect to other languages, the language of communication in the comments to published articles is Russian. Unfortunately, native speakers of other languages ​​often use them to clarify relationships among themselves, while using obscene language. In addition, the forum implies publicity, therefore statements written in any foreign language and incomprehensible to the vast majority of readers due to their ignorance of various foreign languages ​​will be deleted
                        I do not know Estonian, I know Ukrainian, because grew up in (in) Ukraine, only one word triggered some brüderschaft associations.
                        Sincerely.
                      3. 0
                        22 October 2013 05: 41
                        corn
                        Silent, silent, you're right, I won’t. But you can’t deny that I didn’t use foul language ... :)))) And in general, not using my native letters makes translation difficult ... and this is Lithuanian, which I used in response to statements in Estonian :)))
  26. -2
    21 October 2013 10: 56
    It is interesting to see "a CIS country developing faster than Russia", if they do "develop", it is usually on Russian money, well, or on Western money, if they are sold.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      21 October 2013 10: 59
      Kazakhstan’s investment in Russia is greater than Russia's investment in Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan's domestic investment is absolutely superior to foreign investment in Kazakhstan. So - past the cash register.
      1. -1
        21 October 2013 11: 04
        Very funny.
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          21 October 2013 11: 35
          Quote: Standard Oil
          Very funny.

          for the unknowing - yes, it's funny.
          1. 0
            21 October 2013 13: 11
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Quote: Standard Oil
            Very funny.

            for the unknowing - yes, it's funny.

            For those who know, it’s also funny, especially when you argue with those who don’t know.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              21 October 2013 14: 51
              "As of September 30, 2012, almost a third of investments in Kazakhstan were in the Netherlands - $ 49 billion. The second and third lines were respectively the United Kingdom ($ 24,7 billion) and China ($ 18,2 billion). In the top ten investors - the United States ($ 17,9 billion), France (8,6 billion), the Virgin Islands (6,3 billion), Russia (5,3 billion), Japan (5,1 billion), Switzerland (3,9 billion), Austria (2,5 billion).
              The total investment in the Republic of Kazakhstan at the end of September last year exceeded $ 177,7 billion.

              As for domestic investment abroad, the largest cash flow (over 29 percent of the total) was directed to the United States - $ 45,6 billion. A significant outflow of funds from the country was also observed in the UK (16,8 billion dollars), the Netherlands (16,2 billion), Russia (8 billion), Germany (7,6 billion), France (6,3 billion), Japan (5,3 billion), Austria (3,4 billion), Switzerland (3,3 billion), Canada (3,1 billion).
              In total, at the end of September 2012, the total investment from Kazakhstan exceeded $ 155,3 billion. "
          2. -2
            21 October 2013 13: 17
            and you really look funny from time to time, then you will refer to the AVERAGE price for apartments, then something else like that blur
      2. 0
        21 October 2013 13: 15
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Kazakhstan’s investment in Russia is greater,

        this is not information watered, and we are not recruits looking political in the mouth, figures in the studio
        1. +5
          22 October 2013 01: 41
          Vladimir, good night! I saw the apartment you recalled on Shashkina-Timiryazev. I'm on Shashkin - Al-Farabi live, in 5 minutes. even if . Khrushchev’s old, my classmate lived there. It is very problematic - from pipes to electrics, from the ceiling to the floor, everything needs to be changed and done - generally killed on the 1st floor. Y me 1 sq.m. at the moment 2700 dollars. - brick, 38 years old. In the new house on Al-Farabi - Rozabakiyev 3000-3500.
          Marek is right when he writes that Kazakhstan's investment in the Russian Federation is greater than that of the Russian Federation in Kazakhstan. It is a fact . Since 1998, our economic growth has always been higher than in Russia, reaching 13% per year. And now it is higher. "We will always try to compete with the Russian Federation in this matter and will do everything for this" -NAN. GDP per capita grew from $ 600 to $ 12 (000 in Russia) and reached $ 15 billion. ... And there are further points of growth.
          And I think that in the issue of interethnic. Kazakhstan looks preferable. For more than 20 years we have gone through a different story: the Russian Federation went through a civil war in the Caucasus; RK, looking at all the military. conflicts in the CIS space, legally prohibits the creation of parties and social movements in nat. sign. Kazakhstan legally organizes the Assembly of the Peoples of Kazakhstan (ANC) and secures 9 seats in parliament for the ANC. And also in every possible way contributes to the creation of nat. communities (THE RUSSIAN COMMUNITY OF KAZAKHSTAN in ALMATY is located on Satpayev-Cosmonauts, in the former building of the Malaya Arena, near the stadium), cultural centers with evening schools and the construction of religious buildings. Note: At present, the construction of the Orthodox Church in Al-Farabi (above ) - Rozabakieva (the most prestigious area of ​​the city, the upper part), a couple of days ago a new denouement was opened there.
          Therefore, in the Republic of Kazakhstan you will not see "wall to wall" between representatives of different nationalities. Praying people on the street in relig. holidays that cause indignation of representatives of other religions. Also, we will not see skinheads with Nazi symbols in the RK, beating representatives of other nationalities or inciting riots. WE, IN RK, BELIEVE THAT THE NATIONAL ISSUE Y IS RESOLVED BY US. BUT DEMANDS AND WILL DEMAND THE ATTENTION OF THE AUTHORITIES - therefore, the authorities have been instructed in every possible way to help the representatives of the diasporas and the ANC meets once a year under the chairmanship of the President. If there are problems, please, bring them to the ANC congress - it will be decided at the highest level through a representative of the diaspora, but it is necessary, please, in parliament through representatives of the ANC. If you want to go to the government service, please learn the language and serve in the army - Kazakhs will wear arms and career growth is ensured if you live with your head (there are not enough representatives of national minorities in the government, "And where to get them? Kazakh does not know how things will be lead, if he collides with the Aul? "- the prosecutor of one of the southern regions). And there is nowhere to apply to the Russian Federation, and for her now it is a very sore point (international relations). Therefore, any negative information on this issue from other republics is perceived by the Russians painfully - it is understandable after the Caucasian wars, terrorist attacks and the influx of guest workers.
          Here is an opinion. hi
  27. +1
    21 October 2013 11: 00
    Maybe someone from the "Svidomo" Kazakhs will answer me why in the 90s it was possible to buy a 3-room apartment in Kustanai for 800-1000 US dollars! my wife's brother.
    1. +2
      21 October 2013 11: 06
      It's true.
      Apartments were cheap then. In 2001, in Karaganda, there was a dvushka in the center of 2800-4000, on the outskirts (Mikuduk) of 300 bucks.
      1. +1
        21 October 2013 11: 36
        And now the conclusion. Apartments were sold for a pittance by Russians who left "of their own free will" for permanent residence in Russia, who were squeezed out by local princes, by the policy of replacing their relatives from the auls in promising positions, at the school where my future wife studied, there were very few Kazakhs, mostly Russians, this is Kostanay, and now!
        1. +3
          21 October 2013 11: 39
          Well kag be apartment prices were the same for everyone.
        2. Marek Rozny
          +1
          21 October 2013 11: 52
          Jozz, you have stupid logic. Because the original data is incorrect.
          Kostanay - indeed after the war it became a "Russian" city. Even now, the main population there is Russian-speaking. Most of the time, this city was ruled by ethnic Russians and Germans represented by governors and deputy governors. Taking this into account, it turns out that the Russian Kulagin, being a "local tsar", dragged his relatives out of the aul, squeezing out other Russians.
          So be it, write a letter to this Sergey Kulagin (he is still on government duties) a letter accusing him of nationalism)))

          For completeness, this is typical news of the Kostanay region in recent years:
          Results of the socio-economic development of the region and plans for construction and reconstruction. These are the main topics of the meeting at the akim of the region, which took place last week.
          According to the deputy akim of the region Alberta Rau...
          First Deputy Akim of the region Victor Meister announced construction plans for the current year ...
          Another issue raised at the meeting is the cost of construction after tenders. The principle is that the contractors, in order to win the tender, offer obviously low prices, but as soon as they win, they say that there will not be enough funds allocated for the construction. From now on, he promised Sergey Kulagin, should not be repeated, and there will be no review of funding. http://www.ng.kz/gazeta/160/hronograph/013.shtml

          Grin of Kazakh nationalism ...
        3. +2
          21 October 2013 12: 09
          Quote: Djozz
          who were squeezed out by local kings by the policy of replacing their relatives in promising posts .. this is the city of Kustanai, and now!
          Kostanay you say ..
          Quite recently, the Kostanay region was headed by the "Kazakh" Kulagin and his "gang - leika". In the town of Rudny his relative Denning in the town of Lisakovsk is his squire Radchenko.
          Yes, and at the present time, Kulagin would "khanate" with us if it were not for the machinations. True, "Papa" did not put him in jail, but sent him to an honorary "pension" by a senator. And now others are sitting behind him. When they talk about Kazakh "bayism" I always remember how "Kulagin and ko" behaved.
          The current head of the Kostanay region had a Russian wife (widower). By the way, from what aul, clan and whose "relatives" the deputies Poleshko, Aman and Meister are from ?!
          1. Marek Rozny
            +4
            21 October 2013 12: 58
            Somewhere in 2005 I arrived in Rudny (20 km from Kostanay), I was going in a taxi, I asked the taxi driver how, they say, life in the city.
            A taxi driver (a paid peasant of about 50 years old) plainly says that everything is fine, but the Kazakhs are oppressing.
            - What Kazakhs oppress you, if you can count Kazakhs on the fingers of one hand in Rudny? You and the akim are German "Bordyur Bordyurovich", and not even a single street is named after a Kazakh or in Kazakh!
            - Well ... Okay with us, but somewhere they oppress us!

            In short, the Russian media and the cries of ex-Kazakhstanis accusing the Kazakhs and the authorities of Kazakhstan of all their problems have done their dirty deed. A taxi driver does not see Kazakhs in the eyes, but is convinced that he is oppressed ...
    2. +2
      21 October 2013 11: 27
      o-pa was in the economy and the population did not have money from here, and such prices and not the machinations of the Kazakhs, now prices have risen significantly. I have a Russian classmate left to live in my small homeland (he calls himself the red banner konrat). So he buried his Russian neighbor and wrote off his apartment to him. Many lonely grandparents began to ask him to do it after their death, he initially refused and then began to make funerals, wreaths, a monument, a wake, etc. as expected. 10-15 years later, when prices rose from 1000 cu to 10000-20000 cu, heirs from Russia began to appear; some even sued Pavel instead of saying thanks for the human funeral of their loved ones.
      Quote: Djozz
      Maybe someone from the "Svidomo" Kazakhs will answer me why in the 90s it was possible to buy a 3-room apartment in Kustanai for 800-1000 US dollars! my wife's brother.
    3. Marek Rozny
      +1
      21 October 2013 11: 33
      You yourself are Svidomo.
      In Almaty, by the way, even in the late 90s there were low housing prices. We sold a 3-room apartment of improved layout in the center of Almaty in 1999 in a newly built house for 20 thousand dollars. And they thought that they sold the hut very profitably. In Astana at that time (1999, Astana already became the capital), apartments were half the price.
      And the prices that you wrote were in Kostanay at the very beginning of the 90s. Apartments there did not cost $ 1000 (for this money you could only buy in Rudny), but somewhere around 5000-8000 for a three-ruble note in the center. Moreover, in some cities, apartments were generally symbolic. For example, even in 1999 in Temirtau (near Karaganda) a one-room apartment cost around $ 200. And still no one bought.
      1. 0
        21 October 2013 12: 19
        I ask you not to poke! I wrote about the real prices, my wife's relatives who moved to our Kuban, their 4 families, all from Kustanai were not seen lying! And now they have everything in order, almost everyone has their own business.
        1. +3
          21 October 2013 12: 40
          These prices are not disputed like no one else. But where does the price? They were the same for everyone and for Russians and Kazakhs.
        2. Marek Rozny
          +2
          21 October 2013 13: 05
          Quote: Djozz
          I ask you not to poke!

          Well, what did you want after the phrase "Svidomye Kazakhs"? Or did you blur this phrase out of your great love for the Kazakhs?
          1. -1
            21 October 2013 16: 47
            Svidomo, meaning conscious understood or repeat, the fan of the American flag!
            1. Marek Rozny
              +2
              21 October 2013 19: 23
              Quote: Djozz
              Svidomo, meaning conscious understood or repeat, the fan of the American flag!

              Don't bother. I understood the context perfectly. The word "Svidomo" is used by Russian members of the forum exclusively in a negative sense, as a substitute for the concept of "magical Russophobe". So don't tryndi.
              ZY I understand the Ukrainian language perfectly. Even better than their Ukrainian friends. Thanks to the Ukrainian songs, the love for which my father laid in me in early childhood. I sing songs in Ukrainian without an accent. And not "pidmanula", but normal good songs like "Chornobrivtsev" or "Nich Yaka Minishana".
              З.З.Ы. Were bored with this flag. My provider is "Beeline". He uses clumsy IP addresses for purposes unknown to me. I have never been to the USA, I am not going to, and I am not an Americanaphile.
              1. +2
                21 October 2013 19: 32
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Quote: Djozz
                Svidomo, meaning conscious understood or repeat, the fan of the American flag!

                Don't bother. I understood the context perfectly. The word "Svidomo" is used by Russian members of the forum exclusively in a negative sense, as a substitute for the concept of "magical Russophobe". So don't tryndi.
                ZY I understand the Ukrainian language perfectly. Even better than their Ukrainian friends. Thanks to the Ukrainian songs, the love for which my father laid in me in early childhood. I sing songs in Ukrainian without an accent. And not "pidmanula", but normal good songs like "Chornobrivtsev" or "Nich Yaka Minishana".
                З.З.Ы. Were bored with this flag. My provider is "Beeline". He uses clumsy IP addresses for purposes unknown to me. I have never been to the USA, I am not going to, and I am not an Americanaphile.

                Marek Rosney do not explain with the flag will be our man in Washington wink
            2. +2
              21 October 2013 19: 38
              Quote: Djozz
              Djozz Today, 16: 47 ↑
              Svidomo, meaning conscious understood or repeat, the fan of the American flag!


              No need to cling to trifles. Errors happen ah. Imho.
          2. +1
            22 October 2013 01: 25
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Well, what did you want after the phrase "Svidomye Kazakhs"? Or did you blur this phrase out of your great love for the Kazakhs?

            You confuse Svidomo with Svidomo, although one derivative from another, but the meaning is different.
    4. +3
      21 October 2013 12: 04
      Oil cost 13 dollars !!! Apartments in Alma-Ata cost 2x-9000, 3x-12000.
      As the price of oil went up, the price of the apartment also skyrocketed 10 times.
    5. +4
      21 October 2013 13: 59
      Strange conclusion!
      And what do you want the Khrushchev treshka in the provincial town to cost as much as in the golden square of Alma-Ata? In general, and with us, the prices were clearly not high: for three and a half pieces (mid-90s) you could find a fresh three-ruble note in Ainabulak.
      You are not indignant when you compare real estate prices in the elite district of Moscow with housing in some kind of Muho.ransk.
      Kustanays, no offense for such a comparison!
  28. +5
    21 October 2013 11: 09
    Quote: Lindon
    You are an idealist. Don't discriminate against anyone? by gender, age, religious grounds? Just do not lie - start with yourself.
    Domestic nationalism exists beautifully in thin. literature and cinema of modern Russia - you just don’t notice it - even watching the news on TV.


    I want to make one in the nuance. Nationalism also exists in Russia and no one hides this. I just want to note that it manifests itself in relation to visitors, those persons who come to Russia to earn money. Tajiks and Uzbeks, for example, for low-paid jobs. They come there to work and feed, because in their homeland they have no way to earn money. Moreover, very often they do not comply with the norms and laws and respect for the topic to people who came to work and to those who surround them. Hence, Russians have the same attitude towards visitors. Therefore, they cut Russian citizens, and then the culprits return to their homeland as if nothing had happened.

    Something else is happening with the Russians living in Kazakhstan. Russians here grew up and brought up. Their parents and other relatives grew up here. And Russians are not here because it’s better here and you can earn money by coming here from Russia to earn money. They were just born and raised here. And for the Kazakhs, with the manifestation of nationalism, it doesn’t matter whether the Russian is new or not. The very fact that he, at the sight of a Slavic person, provokes in him the enemy of an imperial colonial country. Therefore, dear, do not confuse Russian and Kazakh nationalism. These are different things. And it is not worth blaming the Russians living in Kazakhstan for all the mortal sins of the former Russian Empire. The Russians here have simply become hostages of circumstances. The scoop fell apart and borders appeared. But not everyone wants to move and drop what their grandfathers and parents have accumulated. Hence the need to endure hidden nationalism. Which is silent everywhere.
    1. -2
      21 October 2013 11: 11
      Well, when the scoop was the everyday nationalism of the Russians towards the Kazakhs, now the Kazakhs show the same nationalism towards the "Sahibs".
      1. +4
        21 October 2013 11: 50
        There were a number of them in my company. Dzhumangaliyev and Kurbangaliyev, who upon arrival at the unit sharply "forgot" the Russian language, had to start restoring their memory, they cleaned the toilet four times, and sang about a miracle in Russian better than the Balts! "!
    2. 0
      21 October 2013 13: 20
      My parents came to Kazakhstan on a Komsomol ticket to build housing.
  29. +2
    21 October 2013 11: 12
    Everything is very simple - "the fish is looking where it is deeper, and the man is where it is better." Look at internal migration in Russia, and what to say about migration from outside. Modern world migration, many sociologists call - "The Second Great Migration of Nations".
  30. +2
    21 October 2013 11: 23
    Quote: Alibekulu
    3 Russians had something to run to. Russians in Kazakhstan in Soviet times, and even now constituted a stable middle class.

    I would like to say, dear ones, that at the beginning of the 90, our common state robbed the whole people like sticky and all the accumulated savings turned into toilet paper. Therefore, there were no funds for the move either. There were only a few.
    1. +1
      21 October 2013 11: 36
      Quote: Scandinavian
      Quote: Alibekulu
      3 Russians had something to run to. Russians in Kazakhstan in Soviet times, and even now constituted a stable middle class.

      I would like to say, dear ones, that at the beginning of the 90, our common state robbed the whole people like sticky and all the accumulated savings turned into toilet paper. Therefore, there were no funds for the move either. There were only a few.

      here I agree I robbed and threw, but the state itself was at a trough.
  31. +3
    21 October 2013 11: 29
    The Russians should all return to Russia. And the government should provide maximum opportunities and assistance to displaced persons. At the same time, it is necessary to "crush" the bureaucrats and red tape who hinder the return of Russian people home. Russian people in Central Asia, Transcaucasia and Kazakhstan have no future.
  32. vladsolo56
    +2
    21 October 2013 11: 34
    Quote: Lindon
    But Kazakhs under the USSR were denied access to many power structures and posts of strategic importance.
    But Russians, and now in the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Security Committee make up a significant share.

    complete nonsense, well, or at least not knowledge of the issue, that's for sure
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      21 October 2013 11: 39
      Quote: vladsolo56
      complete nonsense, well, or at least not knowledge of the issue, that's for sure

      can you name at least ONE Kazakh for all 70 years of Soviet power, which was admitted to Kremlin posts in ANY public institution? 90% are Slavs. The rest are Caucasians and Jews.
      Were the Kazakhs so stupid that they were not taken to responsible Soviet posts, or was the Soviet government so helpless that it could not bring up the national cadres? Or maybe everything is easier? Just don't want to confess?
      1. vladsolo56
        -1
        21 October 2013 12: 14
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Quote: vladsolo56
        complete nonsense, well, or at least not knowledge of the issue, that's for sure

        can you name at least ONE Kazakh for all 70 years of Soviet power, which was admitted to Kremlin posts in ANY public institution? 90% are Slavs. The rest are Caucasians and Jews.
        Were the Kazakhs so stupid that they were not taken to responsible Soviet posts, or was the Soviet government so helpless that it could not bring up the national cadres? Or maybe everything is easier? Just don't want to confess?

        It would be nice for you to think before you write, take an interest in at least Nazarbayev’s biography.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          21 October 2013 12: 40
          Vlad, well, when did Nazarbayev work in Kremlin positions? Or does it even occur to you that the Kazakh can work outside the Kazakh SSR?
          The managerial post within the republic was a ceiling for ethnic Kazakhs. At the same time, the vast majority of posts, including the post of head of the republic, were usually held by the Slavs.
          The maximum where Kazakhs were appointed in Soviet Moscow is the ministerial clerk of the lower level.
          Even among the employees of the USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs I can only remember one Kazakh diplomat, Nazir Torekulov, who successfully worked as the plenipotentiary in Saudi Arabia, and that one was shot in 1937 (by the way, the stunned Saudis after that stated that they refused to communicate with other representatives of the USSR and broke off relations with The Soviet Union; and yet we could turn history differently).
          More than a single Kazakh in a responsible post of all-Union significance did not work. Or do you have information that the Kazakhs massively held large government posts in Moscow? ))) Who should we blame for the fact that the Kazakhs were not allowed into the ranks of the Union nomenclature?)))
          1. vladsolo56
            -1
            21 October 2013 13: 21
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            More than a single Kazakh in a responsible post of all-Union significance did not work. Or do you have information that the Kazakhs massively held large government posts in Moscow? ))) Who should we blame for the fact that the Kazakhs were not allowed into the ranks of the Union nomenclature?)))

            Well give examples of candidacy, which of the Kazakhs applied for positions in the Kremlin? And the second thing that would have changed if this had happened? In fact, for me personally, it does not matter who is in power if there is justice and order in the country. Now in Kazakhstan, only Kazakhs are in power, and that everything is perfect in the country? no problems?
            1. Marek Rozny
              +4
              21 October 2013 19: 02
              Quote: vladsolo56
              Well give examples of candidacy, which of the Kazakhs applied for positions in the Kremlin?

              Gyyy, Kazakhs are constantly accused of ambition, of the desire to occupy leading positions, and as soon as they touched the topic "why there were no Kazakhs in the administration of the USSR," so begins "the Kazakhs themselves did not want, otherwise we, Russians, would gladly give them all the places would "))))
              how sometimes you can juggle with words)))
              well, if you don’t know, then the Nazarbayev you mentioned repeatedly was promoted to a Moscow post several times in the 80s, but every time he was shaved off, they say, we need you, comrade, in Kazakhstan, and you have been given a great honor.
              that soldier who does not dream of becoming a general is bad. it would be foolish to think that the energetic Nazarbayev did not want a further career in the capital of the USSR.
              Quote: vladsolo56
              And the second thing that would have changed if this had happened?
              again gyyyy))) how to see Russians in the government of Kazakhstan - take it out, but put it down! but as a Kazakh in the government of the USSR or the Russian Federation - immediately "what's the point?")))

              Quote: vladsolo56
              Now in Kazakhstan only Kazakhs are in power, and what is everything perfect in the country? no problems?
              First, not only Kazakhs. That you stubbornly ignore the mass of Russian-speaking senior officials in the rank of ministers, vice-ministers, deputies, governors, deputy governors? Secondly, there are no ideal countries, but Kazakhstan, despite all sorts of trips, is still developing quite successfully over the years. And it's foolish to deny it. Although the ex-Kazakhstanis from among the "refugees" will never agree with this, since they are convinced that after their departure, Kazakhstan no longer has a chance and is already in agony)))
              1. +1
                21 October 2013 19: 37
                But the truth is, if there were at least one Kazakh in the leadership of the USSR, who knows, maybe the country would not have collapsed. And so, the Slav brothers got full access to governing the country, and then it was stupid and poh.rili.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +2
    21 October 2013 12: 20
    I read and resent the short memory of some peoples, he himself lived in Semipalatinsk and at the end of the 80s and beginning of the 90th state administration removed Russian directors and installed Kazakhs. Then the director of Kazakh and practice for production started, Russians or Germans, my mother was removed from me like that and as a result the furniture factory went out of business after 2 years. And I myself at that time from Ferghana and from Baku, I pulled people out with weapons in my hands from peaceful and affectionate local violence. And here you read the sdes on the forum so we Russian cut and evicted everyone.
    1. -7
      21 October 2013 12: 23
      andreitk20 They are wild, but the steppes are continuous. wink
  35. -4
    21 October 2013 12: 22
    Brothers and sisters, Slavs, return home smile Enough to live in a country hostile to you, where you are oppressed and insulted.
    1. essenger
      +2
      21 October 2013 12: 26
      Quote: Marrying
      Brothers and sisters, Slavs, return home

      Help them with employment and housing)
      But do not touch the Ukrainians, otherwise no one will play for the national football team laughing
      1. 0
        21 October 2013 12: 30
        Unfortunately, I am not the president, so I would certainly help and sheltered the Serbs, who asked a year ago (about 10 people). The country is large, there are not enough people.
        1. essenger
          0
          21 October 2013 12: 38
          Zhenya
          I remember the Circassians also asked, but why not accept them too? Zagocenocidi and expelled from their lands. If only now I would apologize and help with the arrival. Indeed, they are going to hold the Olympics on their land.
          1. 0
            21 October 2013 13: 14
            There was no genocide of the Circassians, for which they will apologize, the Circassians are not Indians, who were exterminated almost to zero. The Circassians were "divorced" by the Turks and then abandoned, and secondly, many Circassians left themselves not wanting to live as they would now say according to the law of the state.
            1. 0
              21 October 2013 13: 48
              Negative about the Circassian genocide? Or am I wrong about the Indians?
              The Circassians, by the way, have two republics: Adygea and Karachay-Cherkessia. Now the Circassians are asking for home, as you know, do they have a bad memory? must remember the genocide (which was not)! And yet the moment Sochi is not Circassian land, nor when this land did not belong to them, it is possible only in a short time by the standards of history, in the Ottoman Empire.
            2. essenger
              +1
              21 October 2013 14: 25
              Quote: RUSS
              Circassian genocide was not

              As usual
              Russia is the advice of mankind, the most fair, kind and honest country in the world !!!
          2. -5
            21 October 2013 18: 36
            essenger You can immediately see the victim of propaganda, this land has always been Cossacks and they were Orthodox. Terrible Russian city and what? Now there are Chechens, here are the real invaders of the territory.
            1. essenger
              +1
              21 October 2013 21: 07
              Quote: Marrying
              You are immediately visible a victim of propaganda

              I hear from the victim of Channel One)))))))
          3. -2
            22 October 2013 01: 29
            Quote: Essenger
            I remember the Circassians also asked, but why not accept them too? Zagocenocidi and expelled from their lands.

            And the Germans were genocidal near Stalingrad, and the French in 1812, the list is long.
        2. +3
          21 October 2013 12: 43
          The Kremlin was planning to bring in 5 million Russians - it didn’t work, they stole money. 20 thousand arrived. It was necessary to report.
          Who is to blame for the lack of Russians in Russia ??? Kazakhs?
    2. smersh70
      +5
      21 October 2013 13: 30
      Quote: Marrying
      Brothers

      take me one more basurman wassat laughing
  36. Ddhal
    -5
    21 October 2013 12: 57
    Experts and the ethnic factor consider too “bloated” - after all, Russians continue to remain the second largest national group in the republic after the Kazakhs. Both ethnic groups connect a long period of cohabitation in one territory, a common history, cultural and spiritual values. This, according to experts, is the key to peaceful coexistence and friendly relations between them.

    These "experts" make me furious. Come and live a couple of years in a "warm and friendly" environment. We have already gone through this in Chechnya. Better to be "a stranger among your own" 8 times than to stay in such places. The 70s and 80s have long passed and there is no one to reeducate the animals.
    1. +2
      21 October 2013 13: 40
      Quote: DDHAL
      These "experts" make me furious. Come and live a couple of years in a "warm and friendly" environment.
      As for the negative about Kazakhstan, Russians are spreading, who at the same time, as a rule, do not know the Kazakh language.
      And this position is one-sided and, frankly, "odious". Kazakhs and Russians who know the Kazakh language are much more objective, as they see the situation both "from the inside" and "from the outside" ..
      Look at the interview with Anna Danchenko (with credits), because she is more radical with respect to the situation of the Russian and Kazakh languages ​​than many Kazakhs .. wink (watch from half the video .., but I advise you to see the whole)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhDOn0Y5fQ
      1. +2
        21 October 2013 13: 48
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Look at the interview with Anna Danchenko (with credits), so she is more radical than many Kazakhs regarding the situation of the Russian and Kazakh languages ​​.. (watch from half the video .., but I advise you to watch the whole)
        1. -2
          21 October 2013 14: 25
          but what is the purpose of posting a video in a language that 99% of members of the forum do not know?
          besides agitation she is agitation
          1. essenger
            +5
            21 October 2013 14: 35
            Vasilenko Vladimir
            there are RUSSIAN subtitles
            1. -1
              21 October 2013 14: 47
              I apologize, I did not know that they should be turned on
          2. +5
            21 October 2013 14: 40
            Dear Vladimir, can it be that you, having lived a considerable part of your life among the Kazakhs, cannot at least understand a part of what is being said there?
            1. -1
              21 October 2013 14: 50
              To be honest, in my class of 30 people there were 6 Kazakhs, of whom 2 knew Kazakh.
              1. +3
                21 October 2013 15: 14
                there were 6 Kazakhs, of whom 2 knew Kazakh.

                And how are they with the Kazakh language now?
                I had a similar situation in the classroom. Of the four, only I knew my native language, and that was purely at the household level. The guys, on this occasion, are very complex. Fortunately, they were able to solve this problem. Now two of them are fluent in several languages, including Kazakh. It is all about desire and practice. Here, even especially, special courses are not needed, although, of course, with the proper approach, they can very well facilitate the study of the language.
      2. +5
        21 October 2013 14: 14
        I have already been convinced many times of the wisdom of Abai's statement: "How many languages ​​you know, so many times you are a person."
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Peaceful military
    -2
    21 October 2013 14: 35
    In the meantime, in the former Estland province / ESSR, this is how they relate to those who, although Russophobes, are not titular.
    Narvite Bayram Yutsel: "I don't understand why such a small people have such hatred for the Turks?"
    http://rus.delfi.ee/daily/estonia/narvityanin-bajram-yucel-ya-ne-ponimayu-pochem
    uu-takogo-malenkogo-naroda-takaya-nenavist-k-turkam.d? id = 66842583
    “I felt in Estonia, where I turned out to be a representative of this very minority when I encountered Russophobia and nationalism,” Yefimov informed. “I was unpleasant to find out that they hate me only because I am Russian,” he explained. http://baltija.eu/news/read/33112
    Efimov is a "political refugee" from Russia, kindly received by the titular.
  39. +1
    21 October 2013 14: 48
    Quote: Essenger
    Quote: RUSS
    Circassian genocide was not

    As usual
    Russia is the advice of mankind, the most fair, kind and honest country in the world !!!

    Absolutely right.
  40. +5
    21 October 2013 14: 51
    Recently, all topics about Kazakhstan have caused srach. In addition to those where it is said about the Second World War. At least it pleases.
  41. -4
    21 October 2013 14: 51
    Quote: Essenger
    On the national question in Russia, things are worse. Fascism blooms there.

    All Russian fascism arises only with the money of Western partners and Foreign non-profit organizations.

    PS I ask you not to confuse the people of Russia and the Anglo-Saxons who are interested in inciting such conflicts in Russia on the basis of fascism.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +4
      21 October 2013 18: 16
      Quote: Scandinavian
      PS I ask you not to confuse the people of Russia and the Anglo-Saxons who are interested in inciting such conflicts in Russia on the basis of fascism.

      fresh news - Miss Russia Abdrazakov got insults on a national sign. US machinations?
      1. essenger
        +6
        21 October 2013 21: 05
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        US machinations?

        It is easier to blame on the Anglo-Saxons, Jews, Masons, aliens, and even reptilians)))))
  42. +10
    21 October 2013 14: 53
    I live in Almaty, discrimination on nat. did not notice. Maybe people in the south are different, not like in other regions. Out of many of my acquaintances, several people gathered to leave Kazakhstan.
    Reasons: 1. there is nothing to lose (no housing and work), 2. reunion with relatives (at the same time there is housing and good work) 3. somehow higher paid work and housing turned up.
    Maybe really, whoever wants what he sees?
    In addition, my children go to Russian school. Why? Because she is. If it weren’t, they would study in Kazakh, there are no problems. Especially uch. The program is the same. We speak Russian. Why? Potamu-that everyone speaks Russian. They will speak Kazakh - let's talk. I’ll leave KZ if (God forbid) they legalize pid ... growth, they will introduce juvenile justice and other similar European bells and whistles.
    1. +5
      22 October 2013 02: 08
      Soviet Union . I greet you! That's right - there is a prospect and a person will eat a more "comfortable life". Recently, a Russian friend of mine said: "There is a case, housing and cars too. And what awaits me in Russia? And they seem to promise the Union - then what's the difference? My mother and brother were leaving in the late 90s, and the work was done on a special basis." no (doctors) - they returned, but here I settled down to work the next day and took my brother in a month. I helped with the apartment - I became a businessman. Everyone speaks Russian - although there are more "Mambetan faces", but we live in Kazakhstan. So, bro, if you are ready to continue to contemplate my face, then so am I. "
      With great respect.
  43. +4
    21 October 2013 14: 55
    aksakal (1) KZ
    Quote: Alibekulu
    ... these Kazakhs, unlike the Russians, have no opportunity to "run away" with cries of "we are being oppressed" ..

    Yes, a lot of Kazakhs moved to permanent residence in Russia with 90's over the years.
    ... being on a business trip in Astana, at about 94, we go with employees (4 people) in a private taxi, the taxi driver is Kazakh. We talked, he, like us, terribly lamented that they had RANGE SUCH !!! country! Further more, he found out who we are in our specialty, looked at us in this regard with a sort of regret, and said: - “I have something - I’m going to Russia - and that’s all! But you ... here stay ...! " I am sure - "MOTNUL" - and God grant him happiness!
    Kazakhs, like Russians, mostly work, for them Russia is also their homeland, they have lived together for over 200 years. "Natsiks" are now trying to present this fact as an occupation, but the majority of Kazakhs, normal, adequate people, sincerely regret what happened, since the peoples adopted a lot of useful things from each other, and lived comfortably next to each other. But in the WORLD there are countries that feel bad, when someone feels good, from there comes the whipping up of negativity, CIA agents and Britans "do not sleep" ...
    1. +5
      21 October 2013 14: 58
      Quote: ia-ai00
      aksakal (1) KZ
      Quote: Alibekulu
      ... these Kazakhs, unlike the Russians, have no opportunity to "run away" with cries of "we are being oppressed" ..

      Yes, a lot of Kazakhs moved to permanent residence in Russia with 90's over the years.


      I can name the name of one guest worker - Bekmambetov from Atyrau left to work in Moscow - received citizenship.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +3
        21 October 2013 18: 12
        Bekmambetov is not a refugee))) He still left Kazakhstan in Uzbekistan in 1982) And in 1987 to Moscow)
  44. xan
    -2
    21 October 2013 15: 12
    Russian-speaking people are right to leave.
    The entire economy of the Republic of Kazakhstan is the ruthless exploitation of natural rents and subsurface resources. Mining has grown tenfold compared with the Kazakh SSR. Everything else is window dressing.
    No education — teaching fiction, all for money. They produce stupid excellent students who simply cannot work in their specialty.
    Bureaucracy, courts, cops - just a business. There, it’s not a person who paints a place, but a place that paints a person, and from the point of view of the Kazakh bureaucrat, this is correct, ubiquitous and unquestioned.
    Comparing Russia with Kazakhstan in all respects is ridiculous. There is no freedom of speech, there is nothing to gain from the local government - it is controlled only by a higher authority. In that environment, people mentally agree with corruption from top to bottom. Window dressing at all levels. Living there is hard purely moral, especially young and active.
    In Russia, they are dissatisfied with the level of corruption, the state of the economy and the legal system. In Kazakhstan, everything is much worse, and nobody cares - the whole elite pretends that the normal development of society is going on.
    darkness
    1. +4
      21 October 2013 16: 10
      xan
      The entire economy of the Russian Federation is the ruthless exploitation of natural rents and subsurface resources. Mining has grown tenfold compared to the RSFESR. Everything else is window dressing.
      No education — teaching fiction, all for money. They produce stupid excellent students who simply cannot work in their specialty.
      Bureaucracy, courts, cops - just a business. There, it’s not a person who paints a place, but a place that paints a person, and from the point of view of the Kazakh bureaucrat, this is correct, ubiquitous and unquestioned.
      Comparing the EU with Russia in all respects is ridiculous. There is no freedom of speech, there is nothing to gain from the local government - it is controlled only by a higher authority. In that environment, people mentally agree with corruption from top to bottom. Window dressing at all levels. Living there is hard purely moral, especially young and active.
      The EU is dissatisfied with the level of corruption, the state of the economy and the legal system. In Russia, everything is much worse, and nobody cares - the whole elite pretends that the normal development of society is going on.
      darkness.
      1. xan
        -6
        21 October 2013 21: 11
        Once again for the Kazakh trolls, the whole crowd noted in the minuses to my post.
        Quote: Lindon
        The entire economy of the Russian Federation is the ruthless exploitation of natural rents and subsurface resources. Mining has grown tenfold compared with the RSFESR.

        According to some indicators, mining in Russia has reached the level of the RSFSR, and for the main exported ones, oil and gas, the level of the RSFSR has not yet been reached. In modern Kazakhstan, the level of extraction of natural resources has increased tenfold compared with the Kazakh SSR. And if we also recall the level of GDP per capita, which is higher in Russia despite the merciless exploitation of the bowels of Kazakhstan, then a conclusion unpleasant for the Kazakhs suggests that they will not like it.
        You can puff up and pout, but you can’t argue against the truth.
        For Lindon - you can once again copy my post, clown.
        1. +2
          22 October 2013 09: 15
          xan

          Calling is not good.
          Teach your wife to cook cabbage soup.
          Your statement is controversial and you do not need to pass it off as the ultimate truth.
          Kazakhstan and Russia both countries are sitting on a raw material needle. And to poke that a neighbor sits on this needle more strongly is more like seeing in someone else's eye.
          Russia initially had an industry many times more developed. Kazakhstan is more agricultural and raw. There is nothing to be done about it - 22 of the year as free swimming - it is too early to make claims, and even less so, to compare them with Russia.
          Already given here a comparison of the RSFSR 1986 year and the Russian Federation 2010 year - the degradation of machine tools and mechanical engineering is evident. Kazakhstan is just beginning the technological stage of assembling diesel locomotives and helicopters, but progress is evident.
          1. -3
            22 October 2013 11: 12
            Lindon I’ll drown you as always.
            1. No need to compare Kazakhstan with Russia, we are not comparable.
            2. Russia receives 45% of its income from oil and gas (in 2008 it was 69%, that is, the tendency to get off the raw needle on the face), and how much is Kazakhstan ?? I am sure all 90%.
            3. Food from 2% in 2000 to 4% in 2011, engineering from 2% in 2000 to 5% in 2011.
            4. How can one compare 1986 and 2010? Absolutely two different countries.
            5. Here you can compare 1996 Russia with 2008 Russia, there is a revival in person, after the closure of 90% of enterprises in the 90s. And Russia 2008 from 2013 can also be compared.
            6. Trend in the revival of the defense industry (in 2007, the volume of the defense industry of Russia amounted to $ 18,6 billion, of which $ 11,6 billion accounted for by the state order, $ 7 billion - for export. From 2000 to 2007, the volume of sales of the Russian defense industry increased by 3,7 times , including state order - 6,4 times, export - 2,2 times.
            In 2009, production in the Russian defense industry increased by about 10%.
            In 2010, the total foreign sales of Rosoboronexport amounted to $ 8,7 billion (since 2001 it has grown 10 times))
            7. The Russian company ALROSA is the largest in the world in exploration for the extraction and sale of diamonds, in 2011 gold mining from the subsoil increased by 5% and amounted to 185 tons, slavery, metallurgy, aircraft manufacturing, etc., etc., and these are jobs .
            8. Russia's foreign debt in 2000 was 100%, but now it is 5%.
            9. Russia needs another 10 years to rise completely from the knees to which it stood in the 90s, it is easy to collapse, it is difficult to build. And Kazakhstan will wither, as long as the oil needle is working, and to be more precise, the field Kashagan, it is interesting, but according to experts' forecasts, at the current rate at which Kazakhstan pumps oil 1992 25,8 million \ 2010 100 million, then in 10-15 years you simply will not have it, and what then? And then you will turn into an ordinary Central Asian country, whose opinion will not even be obeyed.
            ps
            Once again, think again, and then write and use facts, not speculation. Russia is, of course, a raw-material country, but in 5 years it’s very cool to reduce the share of revenue by 14%, and in 2009, Russia took the 1st place in oil production and still holds this line.
            1. +5
              22 October 2013 12: 04
              Zhenya, my young boy.
              Come on, I won’t read your opus. It is necessary to compare with a similar one. Russia can be correctly compared with Russia. You and I compared the RSFSR 1986 of the year and the Russian Federation 2010 of the year.
              If you want to be proud when comparing your country with the Aleutian Islands - compare and be proud that you have 100% superiority in all respects.
              If you are interested in Kazakhstan, then let's compare it with the Kazakh SSR.
              I understand somewhere I hooked you for a living and you want to discuss this in this topic already. Do you agree to compare the Russian Federation with the RSFSR and the KZ with the Kazakh SSR? Otherwise, I refuse to discuss with you the economic issues of our countries.
              A classic example: the economy of the USSR after the war reached its pre-war level in the 1948 year, the population in the 1953 year, etc.
              Japan at 1950, Germany to 1950.
              1. xan
                -3
                22 October 2013 23: 05
                Quote: Lindon
                Come on, I won’t read your opus. It is necessary to compare with a similar one. Russia can be correctly compared with Russia

                it’s compared with Russia, can’t you read?
                Quote: Lindon
                If you are interested in Kazakhstan, then let's compare it with the Kazakh SSR.

                so let's compare, where are the numbers? In Russia, they brought you, the drop from the oil needle is evident. It’s your turn to give figures for Kazakhstan.
                A strange post - wrote about the intention to demonstrate, but did not demonstrate, although it is just appropriate. And they built up the pros - obviously a team of anxious Kazakhstanis is trying.
  45. +3
    21 October 2013 16: 18
    Quote: ed65b

    You along the way except your village were not anywhere. Russian girls in Tajikistan with headscarves on their heads never went to church, and if they don’t put on scarves, it’s not because of the eastern tradition. So when fasting write specifically and not by common speculation and fantasies.


    So there are Russians in Dushanbe? Or again fantasies about the fact that they did not go in scarves there?
  46. Ddhal
    0
    21 October 2013 16: 21
    Quote: Alibekulu
    Quote: DDHAL
    These "experts" make me furious. Come and live a couple of years in a "warm and friendly" environment.
    As for the negative about Kazakhstan, Russians are spreading, who at the same time, as a rule, do not know the Kazakh language.
    And this position is one-sided and, frankly, "odious". Kazakhs and Russians who know the Kazakh language are much more objective, as they see the situation both "from the inside" and "from the outside" ..
    Look at the interview with Anna Danchenko (with credits), because she is more radical with respect to the situation of the Russian and Kazakh languages ​​than many Kazakhs .. wink (watch from half the video .., but I advise you to see the whole)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhDOn0Y5fQ

    Dear Alibek!
    If 100 people call black white, the 101st will believe that it is, but black to white is not inverted.
    “Firstly, this is the lack of prospects. They do not see a future here for themselves and their children, since the system built in Kazakhstan leaves no hope for this, and especially for the possibility of self-realization. Secondly, the situation in the country in recent years is unstable - both in the economic and political spheres. The mechanisms of ensuring social justice are incapable, and the legal protection institutions do not work. ”

    If everything was as wonderful as you present, this article would hardly have seen the light of the day and overgrown with so many comments.
  47. vladkust
    -1
    21 October 2013 16: 38
    In general, I do not really understand the essence of this article, what the author wanted to say by this "a tit in the hands is better than a crane in the sky" ??? I myself moved from Kazakhstan with my family in the late 90s, ...... there are Kazakhs zaeb ..... parents at that time were still quite young lost their jobs for various reasons, so later, in their incomplete 40, they could not even get a job as janitors, refusal because you are old you do not know the Kazakh language !!! left for Russia but it was not easy, but in the end everything is fine, the truth is, the state dragged on for a very long time with a subsidy for the purchase of housing, waited 10 years, but they got their way, and I will tell you a very good amount, now everyone has their own work, business at home ... . and would have stayed there ....... who knows how the whole story would have ended .............
    1. +2
      21 October 2013 17: 02
      40 even janitors could not get a refusal because you are old, you don’t know the Kazakh language

      Stop writing explicit nonsense! This is when and in which city, your parents required knowledge of the Kazakh language in order to get settled as ordinary janitors. Probably in Namangan?
      I'll tell you a little secret, only about this - not a word to anyone. In Kazakhstan, when applying for a job, knowledge of the state language is not required to this day, perhaps, except for cases when it is associated with the provision of public services to the population. If we imperatively forbade people who do not know the state language to occupy certain positions, then we would not have in the civil service so many officials of a “non-titular” nationality who most often occupy far from inferior positions - ministers, governors, top managers of a national company, etc.
      1. Misantrop
        0
        21 October 2013 17: 14
        Quote: romb
        If we imperatively forbade people who do not know the state language to occupy certain positions, then we would not have in the civil service so many officials of a “non-titular” nationality who most often occupy far from inferior positions - ministers, governors, top managers of a national company, etc.
        It didn’t occur to you that when appointing officials of such a level, absolutely ALL selection principles apply? But for the grassroots positions, excuses about the language and its insufficient level of knowledge are quite enough. By the way, in Ukraine there is about the same situation, only here they also require a diploma of specialized higher education. In a small office, the director’s secretary was looking for an assistant to work on a computer. My wife stuck there, she was denied on the basis of insufficient possession of the mob and the fact that ... her higher education is not technical. A small clarification, this juvenile snot, which required an assistant with a higher technical education, has 9 grades of a secondary school with by no means an exemplary certificate ...
        1. +3
          21 October 2013 17: 21
          Do you even understand what this is about?
          Comrade writes:
          40 could not get settled even janitors

          So I'm wondering where this is possible, and why it "happened". If a person just stupidly wants to troll, earn a couple of advantages, then at least lying is something more believable.
        2. +3
          21 October 2013 17: 27
          Let's bet.
          The person will not provide evidence of his innocence, because they simply do not exist, but there is a common cheap lie. This is from the same opera as the "legendary" persecution of Russians from Kazakhstan.
        3. +6
          21 October 2013 17: 37
          Quote: Misantrop
          By the way, in Ukraine there is about the same situation, only here they also require a diploma of specialized higher education. In a small office, the director’s secretary was looking for an assistant to work on her computer. My wife stuck there, she was denied on the basis of insufficient mobility and that ... her higher education is not technical. A small clarification, this juvenile snot, requiring an assistant with a higher technical education, has for its soul 9 high school classes with by no means an exemplary certificate ...


          A teenage snot blowjob does better, so she has enough 9 classes. And she needs your plow - she has a husband. No need to seek out nationalism here.
          1. Misantrop
            +1
            21 October 2013 17: 51
            Quote: Lindon
            There is no need to seek out nationalism here.
            It’s not nationalism, but rejection reason in hiring. Well, about "plowing", so that young whore did not find anyone. And the office did not collapse from this. Those. in fact, the request of a specialist of THIS declared level was NOT REQUIRED
            1. +4
              21 October 2013 18: 03
              And do you really consider strange such a fact as knowledge of the state language? After all, in your case, one of the requirements was knowledge of the Ukrainian language?
              For example, here in Kazakhstan, there are a huge number of returnees who have moved to their homeland from neighboring countries. So, they know their native language, but do not speak Russian. Now the question is: How competent will be a specialist who speaks only one language, in this case, Russian, and what effective help or assistance will he be able to provide to citizens of his state?
              I will give a little explanation. Agree, it’s hard to communicate to people who do not understand each other’s language?
              1. Misantrop
                +1
                21 October 2013 18: 30
                Quote: romb
                And do you really consider strange such a fact as knowledge of the state language?
                Actually, the current MOV and the Ukrainian language are two very different languages ​​that do not have much in common with each other. She knows Ukrainian, it’s time. Secondly, NO one tested her knowledge of language. These are two. And I gave only a WRITTEN wording of the refusal. It’s three, they didn’t even consider it necessary to meet in person and talk ...
                1. +2
                  21 October 2013 18: 51
                  I apologize if anything I have written has hurt you. Just your comments about "mov", I perceived as a kind of confirmation of the fact of ignorance of the state - the Ukrainian language. In our country, unlike in Ukraine, the overwhelming majority of Russians do not speak the state language. This is what causes a certain amount of discomfort in communication between nations, at least this is the opinion of some Russian fellow citizens. But those of the Russians who speak the Kazakh language do not at all think that someone is infringing on them on a national basis.
                  1. Misantrop
                    +1
                    21 October 2013 22: 17
                    Quote: romb
                    I took your comments about the "move" as a kind of confirmation of the fact of ignorance of the state - Ukrainian language.
                    True, it was not for long in our ARC that he had his own president, the first and only. Unfortunately, his first steps turned out to be SO disagreeable to Kiev, that he was not only devoured, but also forced to abolish the presidency in Crimea in general. He then transferred Crimea to Moscow time and introduced three state languages ​​on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea - Ukrainian, Russian and Crimean Tatar (the seals of all offices immediately became a nightmare of complexity, the darkness for counterfeiters lol ) By the way, he lived in a house next to me, in an apartment on the 1st floor of a high-rise building, did not immediately shake out the mansion in a cool place (which also characterizes it in a certain way). Interestingly, the extremely tense ethnic situation during the six months of his presidency was DIRECTLY stabilized. So that all third-party emissaries, despite all the money and efforts, still cannot really shake ...
    2. Marek Rozny
      +3
      21 October 2013 17: 07
      Quote: vladkust
      parents at that time still quite young lost their jobs for various reasons so then in their incomplete 40s they could not even get janitors

      God, whom we lost. I'm going to cry.
      Quote: vladkust
      refusal because you are old you do not know the Kazakh language !!!

      well, you had to explain something to your parents why they were not hired anywhere. found an excuse - "the Kazakh language is obligatory for street cleaners". to go nuts, I have not heard such crap. usually the "refugees" told how bright they were, and that they had been kicked out of their place by the directors of factories, but here they were not hired as a janitor. you see, the Kazakhs have a sharp fight for this place. maybe you confused with Russia? it is your "Russian organizations" fighting to the death with the Tajiks for the right of Russians to wave a broom, which generally puts the Kazakhs in a stupor.
      Yes, there are, of course, Kazakh janitors in the KZ, but usually this is the lot of foreigners.
      ps we even in 50-60 years, migrant workers who do not know Russian and Kazakh manage to make good money, and your parents could not even become a janitor? Oh well.
  48. ekzorsist
    -2
    21 October 2013 17: 47
    [quote = Marek Rozny] [quote = Starfish]
    But why are you always oppressed by something ... Move to Kazakhstan, where the official is up to the bulb of your nationality. [/ Quote]
    Well, about nationality .... an official in Kazakhstan does not give a damn only if he smells of big money .....
    And in other cases - alas, nationality oh how it matters!
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      21 October 2013 18: 13
      Quote: ekzorsist
      And in other cases - alas, nationality oh how it matters!

      in which cases?
    2. +1
      21 October 2013 20: 57
      Quite right, at least in western and southern Kazakhstan. Especially in the west. The so-called ADAYS live there, so the rest of the Kazakhs moan from them. In Aktau on business trips I listened. They oust everyone, even Kazakhs, regardless of whether they speak Kazakh or not. They don't even marry others, they consider themselves "blue bloods", arrogant.
      1. +2
        22 October 2013 09: 16
        Quote: ia-ai00
        Quite right, at least in western and southern Kazakhstan. Especially in the west. The so-called ADAYS live there, so the rest of the Kazakhs moan from them. In Aktau on business trips I listened. They oust everyone, even Kazakhs, regardless of whether they speak Kazakh or not. They don't even marry others, they consider themselves "blue bloods", arrogant.


        Do not flood. I work with the Adays - well, we swear in a day and put up. Everything is fine drinks
  49. +3
    21 October 2013 18: 14
    Forum users! I visited Kazakhstan in the distant Soviet times and now I remember with nostalgia.
    He was very young and did not feel the difference between Kazakh and Russian. There were many friends among the Kazakhs. And now, reading the statements of some members of the forum it becomes sad. Where are we all going?
    How easily we succumb to "wolf" propaganda: "Man is a wolf to man!" How easy it is to get caught in divide and conquer. To whom it is beneficial to see (the architects of the "new order") Remember the history that our fathers and ancestors only together by all nations defended their common homeland from fascism, rebuilt, helped each other and were thanks to this the most powerful state. Not everything was okay, there were mistakes, but in our country it was easy to live and there was no need to worry
    "puzzle" your head: how to live tomorrow. Now we are making timid steps towards rapprochement (first of all, this must be done in our hearts), despite the harsh criticism of those who want to further "run away". Together we are a force to be reckoned with "our critics" from a distant "hillock"
    By the way, I remember how ordinary Kazakhs hid Russian families from the "brutalized" crowd in Alma-Ata during the "reign" of Judah-Gorbachev.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +3
      21 October 2013 18: 19
      In general, I deeply agree with you, but only now
      Quote: vlad.svargin
      By the way, I remember how ordinary Kazakhs hid Russian families from the "brutalized" crowd in Alma-Ata during the "reign" of Judah-Gorbachev.

      there were no apartment pogroms. showdowns were on the street between protesters and people in uniform (police, Novosibirsk riot police and combatants). it’s not necessary to make it as if the Kazakhs were looking for Russians and beat them according to a national sign. moreover, there was a minority of Kazakhs in Alma-Ata.
    2. +5
      21 October 2013 19: 17
      Quote: vlad.svargin
      By the way, I remember how ordinary Kazakhs hid Russian families from the "brutalized" crowd in Alma-Ata during the "reign" of Judah-Gorbachev.


      laughing Yeah, especially if you remember that at that time the Russians had an overwhelming numerical advantage, about 9 to 1.
  50. -2
    21 October 2013 18: 33
    Why are they leaving? Yes, all because. Frenzied nationalism of the Kazakh authorities.
    In our dysfunctional Kyrgyzstan, the inscriptions are still in two or three languages. The Kazakhs all translate into the local Turkic dialect. Although even a ticket to write it is not able. And they have one laws in one village, they are no longer quoted in another.
    There are a lot of good things in Kazakhstan and the people, as a rule, do nothing. But the state there is a police force with flashing lights, dogs and bribes on every corner.
    1. -2
      21 October 2013 19: 18
      Cho Kazakh citizens do not like the look of an outside observer. Allahu akbar with you.
      1. +5
        21 October 2013 23: 24
        Quote: Humpty
        Why are they leaving? Yes, all because. Frenzied nationalism of the Kazakh authorities.


        After the comments that have already been and to refute, you no longer want to.

        Quote: Humpty
        In our dysfunctional Kyrgyzstan, the inscriptions are still in two or three languages. The Kazakhs all translate into the local Turkic dialect.


        Yes ... Kyrgyz is a language, and Kazakh is a local Turkic dialect, in your opinion ?!

        Quote: Humpty
        Although even a ticket to write it is not able.


        On Issyk-Kul, or what? Boil that we stop driving? Yes, a lot of countries offer at the same prices and abruptly better rest and better service.
        Quote: Humpty
        And they have one laws in one village, they are no longer quoted in another.


        You do not confuse us with your country?

        Quote: Humpty
        There are a lot of good things in Kazakhstan and the people, as a rule, do nothing.


        Oh rahmet respected laughing

        Quote: Humpty
        But the state there is a police force with flashing lights, dogs and bribes on every corner.


        Unlike some, we have a state, not a territory. And it took place. We are struggling with bribe takers, not so much with great success, but still there are progress.
        And our policemen with flashing lights and dogs cheated on you for something? Maybe it’s right that the police are on every corner (it’s a pity that this is not so in real life)?
        And then, you know, migrant workers from neighboring countries "come in large numbers", the order must be protected laughing
        1. -2
          22 October 2013 06: 10
          Notice those dialects spoken by the Kyrgyz not me, but you proposed to consider the Kyrgyz language. It’s nothing that the names of objects on the roads by spelling differ depending on the tribe living in a particular territory.
          And here Isykul, if you say a ticket to Kazakhstan somewhere in Karoy, they write in Russian. I don’t know why Isykul, a local resort with dubious service, didn’t please you.
          And the people in Kazakhstan are really usually normal (if you do not take into account some completely frostbitten areas).
          Do not offend the Kirghiz at the expense of their statehood, where can the Kazakhs compete with them, because the Kyrgyz have celebrated 2200 years of their statehood.
          Kyrgyzstan 22:00. True, they do not reach 10 o’clock in the evening.
          At the expense of the territory, at one time it was bought for Russian money, after the 91st it was given as a mockery to local buys.
          Oh, these migrant workers ... Kyrgyzstan is no exception. Sometimes I myself work with seasonal workers coming from Karaganda, Kustanai, Almaty. They do not bother me, even in those cases when they are engaged in frank shreihreherstvom.
          By the way, they work without any registration and after five days in ... the territory of Kyrgyzstan, they will not be charged a fine of 17500 tenge.
          This is me, the wretched one, in order not to conflict (in which case, resolved in a certain sense) with the laws of Kazakhstan, in order to spend a week somewhere on Karatal or "Afghan", you must first go to your relatives for registration in Pavlodar or Astana (closer relatives are already no). I have not seen such idiocy not in Europe, not in Turkey, not in China.
          Regards .
          1. +4
            22 October 2013 09: 20
            Humpty

            Issyk Kul should be discussed at Disil.
            Good Kyrgyz forum. google there a lot of reviews will be on your koment.
            Here he will find few responses.
          2. Marek Rozny
            +4
            22 October 2013 12: 21
            Quote: Humpty
            Sometimes I myself work with seasonal workers coming from Karaganda, Kustanai, Almaty. They do not bother me, even in those cases when they are engaged in frank shreihreherstvom.

            Wahaha, I have tears of laughter ... Kazakhs go to Kyrgyzstan to earn money, and even dumping ...))))))))))))))))))))))))
            1. -3
              22 October 2013 18: 07
              Imagine Marat that Kazakhstan migrant workers in Kyrgyzstan cause me some surprise, especially when people with higher education work for almost a cup of soup.
  51. Skyf
    +5
    21 October 2013 18: 41
    My brother-in-law was born and raised in Kokchetav. For several years, from 2000 to 2005. his entire family (with grandparents, cousins ​​and nephews) left for Russia. The main reason for leaving, as the matchmaker told me, was the complete lack of prospects for them and especially the children. Everywhere there are only national cadres and complete ignorance of the Russian population; at best, there will be an opportunity to be an eternal assistant-deputy. Kazakh boss, be it a director or a janitor.
    It is a complete lie that Russians from Kazakhstan cannot socialize in Russia.
  52. R.R.A.
    -2
    21 October 2013 18: 42
    Quote: hrych
    If a third of the population of the republic, and at the time of the collapse of the Union, almost half were not ethnic Kazakhs and the Russian language (including for the Germans) was their native language, they simply did not know Kazakh and did not have to know, because moved not to the country of Kazakhs, but to another part of their USSR state, then transferring, for example, office work to Kazakh is already a xenophobic crime. Now there is a nuance - special knowledge in the field of medicine, science and technology - the terms have Latin, European or Russian names because of the ethnicity of the scientists who made the scientific revolution and the most stupid translation into the language of the people in the 19th century who lived in yurts and already had no written language, a crime against nature .
    One way or another, but the chief akyn Nazarbayev himself says that the outflow of Russian-speakers has already irreversibly affected the medical and educational level of the republic, and Azerbaijanis have one thing to do with equipment that they themselves are not capable of doing (including military) will have to learn Russian or There is an alternative to learning English.

    Today's Kazakh youth (at least in the South) are half-educated, because they do not really know Russian or Kazakh.
    1. -1
      21 October 2013 19: 38
      It's cool, you probably know Kazakh youth from the south well.
      Maybe you have traveled more around southern Kazakhstan than I have (which I deeply doubt), but I do not have such categorical conclusions. For that, my dear, I give you (-), mind you, not anonymously.
  53. olviko
    +5
    21 October 2013 19: 28
    “Current Kazakh youth (at least in the South) are half-educated, because they don’t really know Russian or Kazakh.”

    Dear, when you write, think at least a little! In England, France, etc., young people don’t know Russian at all. So what now, let’s also call them dropouts. It's probably time to change your minds and understand that Kazakhstan is the same sovereign state as Great Britain, Russia, etc. and has the right to its own language. If it’s not clear, try speaking Russian, say in London, how much can you achieve there without knowing English?
  54. bilgesez
    +1
    21 October 2013 20: 18
    Well, just a communal apartment. Nostalgia.
  55. +1
    21 October 2013 20: 44
    Under the Union, in Kazakhstan, it was no better than it is now. There is still the same emphasis on national personnel, who are far from always qualified. There were many Kazakhs and students of other nationalities in our school, although there were national schools everywhere. Parents simply wanted their children to receive a quality education in a Russian school. We left Southern Kazakhstan for Russia due to lack of prospects. This is our choice, and we want to live in our own linguistic and religious environment.
    1. +3
      22 October 2013 09: 24
      Arkan

      I sincerely congratulate you.
      It's normal to want a better life for your children.
      But you also need to love your homeland.
      I understand people who return to their historical homeland, and not to somewhere warm.
      I am sincerely happy for the Germans, Chechens and other peoples who once again felt the smell of the Motherland.
  56. -3
    21 October 2013 23: 38
    If we talk about any kind of discrimination, then we should mean the effect of the Law on various groups of the population. For example, the recent events in Biryuleva and published statistics have shown that most crimes in Moscow and most likely in Russia are committed by illegal migrants or persons of Caucasian nationalities.
    The situation is approximately the same in Kazakhstan, but exactly the opposite. The overwhelming majority of convicts who are in prison, and therefore have committed a crime, are people of non-Kazakh nationality. The titular nation in the Kazakhstani zones is no more than 30-40%, depending on the region south - north. I immediately warn you about the exclamations of the Kazakhs, through friends and acquaintances there was a personal opportunity for an objective assessment, you will not find official statistics, but if you wish, you can check it yourself.
    But someone may say that Kazakhs are more obedient. However, there is another fact. In the “red zone” where former law enforcement officers are sitting, almost 100% of them are Kazakhs, there are a few Kyrgyz, several Uzbeks and a couple of foreigners from far abroad.
    At the same time, I would not attribute the presence of 99% of Kazakhs in government bodies, law enforcement agencies, banks, oil and other profitable businesses in Kazakhstan to some kind of national dissemination. In Kazakhstan, in principle as in Russia, the clan and corruption system of appointment to positions is very developed. You can also make a career by proving your personal loyalty to your superior, sycophants in Kazakhstan are valued very highly, even some politicians make their image on this.
    It is for this reason that not only Russian specialists leave, but also Kazakhs and other nationalities. In Russia, this problem is not so noticeable, but there is a serious “brain drain”, while hopes for Skolkovo have not yet justified themselves.
    As Griboyedov said: “I’d be glad to serve, but being served is sickening!”
    1. +1
      22 October 2013 09: 33
      scientist

      I do not agree with you.
      A person who has broken the law has no skin color, eye shape, nationality or religion.
      In the USA there are only blacks and Latinos in prisons - so what?
      Then where in Kazakhstan are not red zones? Give me a list of black zones?
      If you are talking about a zone only for cops, then we have one. But there are no big fish there. Of course, the head of customs and the head of the Ministry of Transport are sitting in Kazakhstan, we are waiting for Serdyukov to land.
      This is no longer a question of nationality, but a question of the fight against corruption.
      1. -2
        22 October 2013 22: 01
        Do you really think that the USA is the standard? Even if you don’t take into account the indigenous people of America, the Indians.
        Moreover, you know who are in US prisons - Latinos and African Americans.
        On the one hand, you claim that crime has no nationality, and on the other, that some nationalities have a greater tendency to commit crimes. In my opinion, you have a clear contradiction here.
  57. Asan Ata
    +9
    22 October 2013 01: 04
    I read it and shed a tear. I sincerely feel sorry for the displaced people; these are unfortunate people trying to find a bright future in the unknown. And it doesn’t matter who they are or where they are running. I see a lot of Russians in Almaty every day - happy, and not very different, in general. As, in fact, the Kazakhs. Many of my friends, both Russians and Kazakhs, send their children to study abroad. Some of these children do not return - they remain to work in developed countries. Everyone just wants to live better. Safer. More promising. Can you really blame me for this? We are all from the same barrel and the same salting. Don’t look for those to blame, look for how to forgive with goodness, so that the children have something left.
  58. +4
    22 October 2013 06: 22
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    I already wrote my thesis that NOT A SINGLE “REFUGEE” brought anything to their new homeland on the site.

    By the way, on another Russian website, one Kazakh journalist, Russian by nationality, noted that among those who left, those who were throwing mud at Kazakhstan were those who were unable to settle normally in their new place. You need to find someone to blame for your failures. Those who have settled well remember Kazakhstan with warmth. Naturally, all sorts of cornflowers and other smokes immediately began accusing this journalist of selling out to the Kazakhs for petrodollars. It is not in their underdeveloped skulls that a normal (in their understanding) Russian can say something good about “all these Churkestans.” smile
    1. +7
      22 October 2013 09: 42
      Quote: Nomad
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      I already wrote my thesis that NOT A SINGLE “REFUGEE” brought anything to their new homeland on the site.

      By the way, on another Russian website, one Kazakh journalist, Russian by nationality, noted that among those who left, those who were throwing mud at Kazakhstan were those who were unable to settle normally in their new place. You need to find someone to blame for your failures. Those who have settled well remember Kazakhstan with warmth. Naturally, all sorts of cornflowers and other smokes immediately began accusing this journalist of selling out to the Kazakhs for petrodollars. It is not in their underdeveloped skulls that a normal (in their understanding) Russian can say something good about “all these Churkestans.” smile


      This is fine. He worked with Russian native Muscovites in the USA. They were expelled for anti-Soviet activities. They have such a negative attitude towards Russia - it was terrible. They think everything in Russia is so terrible that people are fleeing to the west like from the plague. It was useless to explain to them that Russia is no longer the USSR and there is no KGB and Putin is not Stalin. Honestly, I just wanted to strangle them. You will not find such a black perception of Russia from anyone.
      The fact that former Kazakh citizens do not like Kazakhstan is just childish pranks. Well, Kazakhstan is not heaven on earth - some people don’t like it. The borders are open - you can always leave, we don’t live in the DPRK.
  59. Dmitriy1975
    0
    22 October 2013 08: 44
    You've created some crap here, it's not like you're a shkolota, but you're still there, aren't you tired? You have to fight, you have to be friends to spite all your enemies, but here you are at the level of the gopniks, you are rubbing all the graters, I myself live in Baikonur and believe me, I am better than all of you combined in this topic, because... citizen of the Russian Federation but live in the Kyrgyz Republic
    1. +1
      22 October 2013 09: 55
      Quote: Dmitriy1975
      You've created some crap here, it's not like you're a shkolota, but you're still there, aren't you tired? You have to fight, you have to be friends to spite all your enemies, but here you are at the level of the gopniks, you are rubbing all the graters, I myself live in Baikonur and believe me, I am better than all of you combined in this topic, because... citizen of the Russian Federation but live in the Kyrgyz Republic


      Dmitry, you are so simple - you live in Kazakhstan and see it with your own eyes.
      How will you give your eyes to users who have only seen Kazakhstan on a map?
      This is not a discussion for you, but for those who haven’t seen it but are interested.
      Now, if Russians living in Kazakhstan (and there are many of them with a Russian passport and we see residence permits) wrote more often on such forums, many myths and fairy tales would not travel from topic to topic, from year to year.
    2. -3
      22 October 2013 13: 38
      Quote: Dmitriy1975
      better than all of you in this topic, because... citizen of the Russian Federation but live in the Kyrgyz Republic

      Dima Baikonur, sorry, not quite Kazakhstan
      1. +4
        22 October 2013 17: 33
        What is this? Is it really Russian territory? Geography kaput? :)
  60. Gur
    +2
    22 October 2013 13: 08
    Quote: Essenger
    Quote: GUR
    And I look that you know so much about the plans of the United States, and it is obvious to Kazakhstan that an enviable role is assigned there

    Theoretically, Kazakhstan, as the leader of the Kipchak world, can play a role in the collapse of Russia.
    But all these are just theories.

    ))))))))))))))) you won’t fall apart on your own, without someone else’s role, the leader is a fuller, if you go out into the air he might let you go)))))))))))))))
    1. essenger
      +1
      22 October 2013 17: 41
      Quote: GUR
      come out into the air maybe he'll let you go

      Kazakhs do not have such a tradition of drinking) you are confused with another people)))))))
  61. R.R.A.
    -2
    22 October 2013 17: 47
    Quote: Humpty
    It's cool, you probably know Kazakh youth from the south well.
    Maybe you have traveled more around southern Kazakhstan than I have (which I deeply doubt), but I do not have such categorical conclusions. For that, my dear, I give you (-), mind you, not anonymously.

    I, too, have never been anywhere in the south and I am sure that I have seen no less than you.
  62. -3
    22 October 2013 20: 05
    here are comments from the Kazakh site Altyn-Orda

    Yes, what kind of power is there already... there are only alcoholics and drug addicts, prostitutes, Nazi narcissists - here they are, the “superior race”. as long as the Jews there at least support culture and business... there is, however, one who has already left, calling everyone monkeys

    Now I have no doubt - Chelakh is a murderer. He's just like these. That's what these Russian women are like (arrogant, boorish). Kazakhs - we are better! Our customs are good neighborly and kind.

    The Russians have gone completely crazy. We also need to shout: Kazakhstan is for Kazakhs, or what? So much for their level and civilization. Nationalists, fascists... There are no words.


    Russia's policy is to intimidate Kazakhstan.


    Do not forget the words of V.I. Lenin. - Learn, learn and learn the KAZAKH LANGUAGE. You eat Kazakh bread and also drink Kazakh water. Don't forget this every day before eating or breakfast, lunch, dinner

    ...Then they artificially created zhutt and famine on the Kazakh steppe, under the pretext of collectivization they took away the entire herd of sheep, horses, and camels. To preserve the upper population of the Volga and Moscow region in Russia. Some fled with their wealth abroad, and in the end we were left with 1000000 Kazakhs in this territory.
    And before us Kazakhs, before 1918, there were 5000000 Kazakhs. YOU know how our grandmothers told us, some ate mice and snakes out of hunger, some had to eat their children.
    After such an artificial famine, probably ALLAH himself punished the RUSSIANS and sent them, HITLER himself, he came to MOSCOW, and how many Russians died from hunger and German bullets.
    GOD is and exists.


    All those who considered themselves Russians began to fight on Hitler’s side, including in the elite SS troops.
    There were a huge number of them - about 1 million 700 people.
    PLUS 5 MILLION. Russians! PRISONERS OF WAR FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE WAR
    This is a huge army. Volunteer Russian Army.
    The same Russians, from whom the Jewish communists took away their national and racial identity and from whom they turned them into brainless internationalists, fought on the side of the Stalinist liquidocracy.
    Thus, it was not the Russians who fought against the Germans.
    The Russians fought on both sides, just as they did during the Civil War.
    The elite SS troops fought in:
    - 30th cavalry COSSACK corps under the leadership of the outstanding white general Krasnov;
    - 29th SS Division (Russian First) (Russian People's Liberation Army);
    — SS Regiment “Varyag”;
    - SS Regiment “Desna”, etc., etc.
    The Russian Liberation Army (ROA) under the leadership of General Vlasov also fought on Hitler’s side.
    The Russian Cossacks hated the so-called Soviet power most of all and gave Hitler 8 divisions:
    3 divisions of SS troops,
    2 security divisions of the SS Main Directorate,
    2 Wehrmacht security divisions and a field police division.
    So the very name of this war - the great PATRIOTIC war - is as false as everything that the communists came up with is false.


    The Russian language is an artificial remake and a kind of Esperanto, which has no ethnic basis, and therefore no territorial affiliation, unlike all other languages ​​of the world.

    http://www.altyn-orda.kz
    1. +1
      23 October 2013 09: 46
      Some kind of game! Share the exact link to the article - it really makes you want to fuck the author of this creation!
    2. +2
      23 October 2013 09: 50
      Strange things are happening. But there is no such article on your site - the search did not turn up anything! Did you invent it yourself? Where did they copy-paste from? I wonder?!
  63. holderrr
    +1
    22 October 2013 21: 38
    Quote: Netrocker
    Well, for example, Suvorov and Kutuzov have precisely Turkic roots ... Suvorov is generally Tatar ...

    Words of Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov - "I am Russian - what a delight!" Don't engage in demagoguery and reshaping history. If you listen to you, Russophobes, then all the great Russian people are Turks or Jews. Grow your own, we won’t give up ours.
    1. +4
      23 October 2013 09: 40
      That's exactly what you're doing, reshaping history! At least study the noble genealogies, and only then start bending your fingers... And by the way, I’m not a Russophobe, and as far as I can tell, I haven’t met them here, and why did they drag in the Jews? winked
  64. 0
    22 October 2013 22: 19
    Quote: Lindon
    Arkan

    I sincerely congratulate you.
    It's normal to want a better life for your children.
    But you also need to love your homeland.
    I understand people who return to their historical homeland, and not to somewhere warm.
    I am sincerely happy for the Germans, Chechens and other peoples who once again felt the smell of the Motherland.



    When you wander, return home,
    And the smoke of the Fatherland is sweet and pleasant to us!

    A. S. Griboedov.
  65. +2
    22 October 2013 22: 36
    “Everything is good in Kazakhstan! And the national question does not exist. And nationalism too." This can be said about the comments of the majority on the Kazakh side. Reducing it to just an economic reason is like burying an ostrich's head in the sand. Moreover, I am not sure that the average standard of living in Russia is higher than in Kazakhstan. Moreover, millions left, not just a few. There is another reason, Marek constantly voices it - like they are stupid and scum. Millions of “stupid” engineers and doctors, workers and peasants... Impressive. The main thing is to say halva - suddenly it will become sweeter in your mouth.
    How can you build a national state and not have a national question, especially since there are still many Russians in Kazakhstan? He is no longer in Chechnya. There it is resolved. There is only one question - knowledge of Kazakh by “non-titlers”. And they are mostly Russian. Once they study it, everything will be in chocolate. All that remains is to force it. How ? There are recipes too. I watched the interview with A. Danchenko with interest. Interesting personality and talented. Indeed. And here is her recipe. Necessary pay less who does not know Kazakh. And everything will be fine. By the way, at the Alma-Ata tobacconist they approached from the other side. There paid extra for learning English. So the recipe is not new, just the other way around. Also, cancel Russian as a language of interethnic communication. And everyone will begin to use Kazakh - both in everyday life, in production, and in the scientific community... Do you believe it yourself? But this is so, the little things in life.. I got the impression that all she had left of the Russian was her appearance. Of course, migration to Russia will increase, but this is temporary. But people like A. Danchenko will remain. Not so talented, but not everyone can be like that.
    It's great to know two languages! It’s just that the conditions need to be created. In the form of teachers, educational literature... but this is more difficult.
    PS There are problems with nationalism in Russia, but that is a topic for another discussion.
    PS1 The discussion boiled down to mutual accusations and insults from some “offended” to other “offended”. They forgot about the article itself. It's a pity.
    1. -8
      23 October 2013 02: 35
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      They forgot about the article itself. It's a pity.

      And there is no need to feel sorry. The brain of a primitive nomad cannot accommodate the fact that not every person has the ability to learn other languages.
      1. +2
        23 October 2013 08: 09
        Quote: Setrac
        In the brain of a primitive nomad...

        You, sir, are provoking. Even from a “primitive shepherd” you can learn a lot. At least polite. When a person who recently visited the site tries to be rude, I still understand, but you’ve been doing this for a long time.
        1. -2
          23 October 2013 13: 53
          Quote: There was a mammoth
          Even from a “primitive shepherd” you can learn a lot. At least polite.

          How polite are these laws on state languages ​​adopted in the national states of the former USSR? How many children of Russians expelled from the former republics will become significant people in Russia in the future? What part of Russians - I note - citizens of the countries of the former republics of the USSR, will be able to master these national languages. The problem is not that the Kazakh language received state status, the problem is that the Russian language was deprived of state status, what kind of friendship can we talk about after that? Millions of Russians were discriminated against on the basis of language, and here you accuse me of impoliteness.
          1. +1
            23 October 2013 17: 48
            Quote: Setrac
            Millions of Russians were discriminated against on the basis of language, and here you accuse me of impoliteness.

            As I understand it, you think that their ordinary people, “shepherds,” make laws? Do we have ordinary workers? Have you actually encountered Kazakhs anywhere other than on the Internet? Have you ever seen a shepherd jumping across a car in the steppe to invite him to his place, and that he, a non-drinker, has a bottle of vodka for travelers? Have you seen Kazakhs switching from their native language to Russian, realizing that the person next to them does not understand what they are talking about? I have seen. I saw nationalists there too. Whether we like it or not, Kazakhstannational state. And not the only one where Russian is not the state language. I don't want him to become nationalistic state. I want the Kazakhs on at least this particular site to understand that until the Russians in Kazakhstan have confidence, the outflow will occur.
            Insult is not an argument; rather, the result will be the opposite, i.e. You are now harming those Russians who now live in Kazakhstan.
            1. -5
              23 October 2013 19: 11
              Quote: There was a mammoth
              Insult is not an argument

              That's right, the main argument is the last argument of the kings.
              Quote: There was a mammoth
              You are now harming those Russians who now live in Kazakhstan.

              It is not me who causes harm, but the government of Kazakhstan; it is not I who invent laws discrediting Russian-speaking citizens for Kazakhstan.
              Quote: There was a mammoth
              As I understand it, you think that their ordinary people, “shepherds,” make laws?

              What are you talking about? There are Kazakhs in the government of Kazakhstan.
    2. olviko
      +3
      23 October 2013 07: 11
      "They forgot about the article itself. It's a pity."
      I agree with you, because the article raises another important topic for Russians. Moreover, it is important both for “local” Russians and for those who came to their historical homeland from the same Kazakhstan.
      “However, in their ethnic homeland, Kazakh Russians are also not welcomed with open arms. Arriving compatriots informally find themselves in the status of “strangers among their own,” and there are many reasons for this, one of which is hostility on the part of the local population.”
      I read all the posts, many write about the nationalism of the Kazakhs, discrimination against Russians in Kazakhstan, etc., etc. Personally, I think that this is a one-sided view of the problem, but let’s assume that all this is so, all this is the truth. But can anyone explain why in Russia Russians are greeted as strangers, both at the level of the authorities, who have come up with a bunch of laws and rules that make life very difficult for Russian migrants, and at the level of the local population, like “all sorts of people have come here in large numbers.”
      1. 0
        23 October 2013 08: 25
        Quote: olviko
        why in Russia Russians are greeted as strangers

        I have always distinguished between the concepts of nationalism and national identity. The concept of nationalism, if you like, is the lot of the envious (this is about those who are happy that “the neighbor’s cow died”). Well, the authorities skillfully use this. There are a lot of problems besides those who have come in large numbers, and they are letting off steam. True, the line between them is very thin. You're right, this happens. There is no need to judge peoples based on individual representatives, be it Russians, Kazakhs, or Chinese... Let me remind you, the article is about Kazakhstan.
    3. +3
      23 October 2013 20: 30
      There was a Mammoth. As I understand it, we lived in Kazakhstan. maybe my opinion on this issue is wrong, there was such a state, first RI then the USSR, where the main people were Russians who dominated almost all spheres. After 91, 15 states appeared where the dominant changed. Some Russians did not accept this, they left. The remaining Russians are divided according to I have three parts: 1) those who sit on suitcases are for example Boriselo 2) those who are building their own separate world from the rest of Kazakhstan are for example Guun 3) those who accepted the current situation and are trying to adapt to the current realities of Kazakhstan - this is for example the girl from the video It’s hard to leave, it’s hard to build your own world, it’s also hard to accept and adapt, so you have a choice like an epic hero in front of three roads and a stone with the inscription, if you go to the left, you’ll lose your horse, etc. Kazakhs also face their own choice, which is not easier, but such is life and it would be nice for all of us together and each individual to make the right choice. According to the conditions for learning the language, adults, if you do not aspire to a political or government career, do not particularly need it (if you want, ask your neighbors to speak Kazakh, I think you will master it in a year at the everyday level - for example, our traders at the bazaar now there is no one who could not communicate with a Kazakh-speaking buyer, this is in the south) for children, it is already our responsibility to explain to them that this is necessary and important, although if you don’t have your own example, it’s difficult. The national question exists and will remain as long as there are nations (it would have been easier to build relationships if there had been no previous domination and of the current change in dominance, as an example, I can say about the local Uzbeks and Kazakhs, where relations have developed easier (they retain their cultural, language, customs, etc., but have also adapted to independent Kazakhstan more easily than the Russians) this is not a claim to the truth, but my understanding of this problem. without mutual quarrel no matter how sacred it is laughing
      1. -3
        23 October 2013 21: 37
        Quote: Semurg
        The remaining Russians are divided into three parts for me

        I would voice these three parts differently.
        The first is a small number - those who were able to master the Kazakh language - for them, nothing has changed in their lives.
        The second is those who were able to master the Kazakh language, but very poorly (not everyone is inclined to learn foreign languages)
        The third is those who were unable to master the Kazakh language.
        For the second and third groups, the choice is small, either beg in Kazakhstan, or try to start all over again in Russia.
        Nothing personal, just business. It's a nasty phrase.
      2. +2
        23 October 2013 23: 22
        Quote: Semurg
        As I understand it, we lived in Kazakhstan.

        Part of my childhood and youth passed in Alma-Ata. I still have relatives there. I haven't been for a long time. Wonderful city.
        “Look to the root!” Remember?
        You didn’t mention a fourth way for the Russians. Why did the Russians create an empire, but the Turks missed this opportunity? Do the Russians have brave warriors? Why didn’t others have these? Are Russians smarter than everyone else? Also no. ? Why didn’t peoples disappear on the territory of the empire, and then the USSR, like, say, in the USA? Today, by the way, we were talking about the Chukchi. They could be cut out like those who are tolerant today. Maybe the Russians didn’t impose their culture and language? Like Europeans. With a sword and a cross? It seems to me that this is closer to the truth.
        I understand that many Kazakhs are offended that not everyone speaks their native language and it seems that if everyone speaks their language, then happiness will come in Kazakhstan. Like in the USA, everyone speaks English. So you see the main problem in this. It’s a pity. But this is a consequence, not a cause.
        It seems to me that it is impossible to make up in 20 years at a glance what has been accumulating for centuries. Kazakh State University has already translated BASIC into Kazakh. Nobody else has thought of this.
        I do not have a ready-made recipe for solving national relations. I don't think anyone has. But solving the problems of one language at the expense of another is not the best recipe, it’s more like stepping on a rake, especially with the Russians. Those who consider Kazakhstan their homeland. Those who stayed and those who left. After all, they weren’t asked how to achieve bilingualism? And what should be the status of the Russian language? We will remain neighbors forever.
        No offense?
        1. +2
          24 October 2013 08: 22
          You are interesting people, it means that Kazakhs should know Russian, but Russians don’t have to speak Kazakh. So who is hurting whom if a Kazakh grandmother asks something from the head at the pharmacy, and the Russian pharmacist doesn’t understand anything, he himself is a witness. But any Kazakh woman will understand everything in Russian .Enough with the blizzard, call any service, they will accept any application in purely Russian. No one requires you to know the literary language, but only at the everyday level, so that you at least understand what they are saying to you. The main thing in Russia is that everyone agrees so that everyone knows the Russian language, and we agree with this, but you don’t want to admit this in Kazakhstan. Double standards, gentlemen, just like the Amers.
          1. +1
            24 October 2013 09: 53
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Enough of the blizzard

            About the blizzard.
            Before treatment, the doctor makes a diagnosis. You are trying to do the opposite. Someone on the site cited the reluctance to change their usual way of life as the reason for Russians’ reluctance to learn Kazakh. The Kazakhs went to the cities. Why? Maybe they realized that the toilet is more comfortable than squatting? But that's another topic. But they also don’t want to change their lifestyle. You'll have to change. Both.
            Well, what about for now? What goes around comes around. There will be people leaving Kazakhstan.
            1. +1
              24 October 2013 13: 57
              You say they are changing, they wrote to you in Russian that almost every Kazakh knows Russian, which cannot be said about the Russians. The problem is obvious and there is no need to fuss, after the Russians learn a little Kazakh the problem will disappear, otherwise there will be no meeting on the Elbe. Who is leaving for the sake of God, you just don’t have to say later that they kicked you out, but admit that you didn’t want to learn Kazakh. Some people here already wrote that they didn’t hire him as a janitor because he was Russian.
              1. 0
                24 October 2013 15: 28
                Quote: Kazbek
                you just don’t have to say later that they kicked you out, but admit that you didn’t want to learn Kazakh.

                Some didn't want to, and some couldn't.
                1. +2
                  24 October 2013 16: 32
                  Well, just say that you couldn’t. And in reality, those who don’t know Kazakh live normally, just why say that they are oppressing you when in any institution they will serve you in Russian. I’m not against Russians, just why talk about something that isn’t there.
              2. +1
                24 October 2013 22: 20
                Quote: Kazbek
                play around

                I wrote for those who have a head not only for a cap, but have the ability to think.
        2. +1
          28 October 2013 12: 45
          Well, why did you miss it? The Turks had them in bulk. I can remind you. Empire of the Huns. The Great Turkic Khaganate and its subsequent fragments. The Golden Horde, which actually united the scattered Russian principalities. And say that it didn’t happen... :)
  66. +3
    23 October 2013 05: 53
    Quote: Setrac
    And there is no need to feel sorry. The brain of a primitive nomad cannot accommodate the fact that not every person has the ability to learn other languages.

    The one who talks about the primitiveness of other peoples, knowing nothing about them except a set of hackneyed cliches invented by the same primitives, is primitive. In general, claims to racial/national superiority are most strongly expressed among all cattle. As King Solomon said, only a fool expresses contempt for his neighbor, but a wise man remains silent.
    1. -3
      23 October 2013 14: 05
      Quote: Nomad
      As King Solomon said, only a fool expresses contempt for his neighbor, but a wise man remains silent.

      Let me emphasize that I do not feel and do not express contempt for MY NEIGHBOR. However, the people who, with the stroke of a pen, made all Russian-speaking citizens of their country second-class citizens, cause nothing but contempt and pity.
      1. +1
        28 October 2013 12: 34
        It was in the Baltic countries that Russians were made second-class citizens, but in our country they have all the same rights as other nations. If they don’t want to learn the language of the country out of laziness, then that’s their problem, but there are legal requirements that apply to everyone!
  67. sergeymend
    +3
    23 October 2013 19: 42
    I don’t know about the genocide of Russians by the Kazakhs, but I myself was, so to speak, an eyewitness: one Kazakh woman (beautiful, by the way) in Uralsk began to be spread rot by local Russian girls. I don’t know exactly who, but one, Dasha - she’s 26 years old (!)
    1. 0
      24 October 2013 09: 58
      Quote: sergeymend
      , but I myself was, so to speak, an eyewitness:

      Have you seen any other examples?
  68. -1
    24 October 2013 10: 28
    Quote: Netrocker
    Bulk officials here Slavic nationality ....

    I don’t know in which particular region of Kazakhstan you live, but for example, where I live (South Kazakhstan region) there really are NO officials of Slavic nationality. Moreover, there are no Slavs in the ranks of the so-called law enforcement agencies... Although no, I’m lying, I recently had the opportunity to meet with a Russian policeman (for the first time in more than 20 years), Major, this was a real shock for me. I even felt a little sorry for the guy, the only one in the whole menagerie...
    1. +1
      28 October 2013 12: 16
      I live in Almaty and I see that there are enough officials of Russian nationality. And the fact that they are not found in your area only means that among the Russians from the southern regions there was no one who knew the Kazakh language and served in the army, that’s the whole secret...
  69. -2
    25 October 2013 15: 55
    Quote: Netrocker
    Do not write nonsense! The ancestors of the Kazakhs at the beginning of the 1st millennium had their own written language - you can see examples of the Turkic runic writing on the Internet. Can you do it yourself? And then look like an ordinary chauvinistic shkolota ...

    Well, yes, yes, yes, I have already cited here from the same series the delights of Kazakh scientists about the fact that paper was invented in Kazakhstan and the fact that Obama, the Scots and someone else have related genes. The disease of small nations is that they do not have such a rich history and have huge ambitions. The smart ones will start writing history from the beginning and will be proud of it, and the not smart ones (note that I’m not saying stupid ones) will start inventing history and humiliating people of other nationalities. This is now happening in Kazakhstan. And the fact that the Russians are being forced out is true. I don’t trust any Kazakh sociologists at all. Their average salary is 140 thousand... but in reality the average is 50-60
    1. +1
      28 October 2013 11: 58
      I don’t know, of course, where you read this, most likely from jokes about the Kazakhs, who compose them themselves. It’s just that when they are launched, no one thinks that some Russians suffer from a complete lack of humor! laughing Well, as for writing, dig around on the Internet - the Orkhon stele of Kultegin - 7th century AD, and you’ll see everything there...
    2. Marek Rozny
      -1
      28 October 2013 13: 34
      Quote: Boricello
      Well, yes, well, yes, I have already cited here from the same series the delights of Kazakh scientists regarding the fact that paper was invented in Kazakhstan

      1) In fact, no one in Kazakhstan has ever claimed, even jokingly, that paper was invented in Kazakhstan. You apparently picked up something superficially, and then came up with your own ideas. As for the connection between Turkic history and paper, just accept it as a fact:
      a) the oldest paper was discovered in the burials of Hun nomads;
      b) industrial production of paper on the territory of modern Kazakhstan and Central Asia began long before the European paper boom. This happened after the Battle of Talas in the 8th century, when the Chinese army was defeated by the combined forces of Arabs and Turks, and as a result, several Chinese specialists were taken, who, wanting to save their lives, gave the Muslims the secret of making Chinese paper. After which manufactories for its production appeared, and thanks to the cheapness of paper, scientific progress and the exchange of knowledge accelerated throughout the Muslim world. It was then that a huge galaxy of Muslim scientists appeared - Turks, Iranians, Arabs.
  70. -4
    27 October 2013 12: 28
    Why do YOU ​​divide the fact that some now (sorry) have naked ass, that others, Kazakhs are Kazakhs and Russians are Russians. The Russians will leave (completely) and it is unlikely that the Kazakhs will be cattle breeders like the Mongols. The mentality of the people is such and nothing can be done about it. But by and large, ask the question: who benefits from this? to quarrel one with another, let's demand the North of Kazakhstan back and what will remain? In the end, who came to whom “for bread”? For Mura, all this is due to darkness and lack of education. Some Slavic brothers also shouted that they had eaten all the lard, now they would deal with them in full, and crawl back on all fours from Geyropa. If the Russians are so shitty, then why are they all coming to us, not from us, but to us, and they feel no worse than at home. The Russians will crush everyone and in the end there will be all Russians, Russian Kazakhs, Russian Germans, Uzbeks, Turks, Jews - but not vice versa. Russians are civilization!!!!!
    1. +3
      28 October 2013 12: 13
      How much do you know about the Kazakh mentality? Well, the North of Kazakhstan has never been Russian - study history. On the contrary, Russia at one time chopped off Kazakh lands in our north!
  71. 0
    27 October 2013 14: 05
    Russians, wherever you are, move to Russia, they are waiting for you here! Everything is fine!
  72. 0
    27 October 2013 21: 25
    At least achieve how Jews help their compatriots when moving to Israel. But our bureaucrats think about their own pockets, and everything else is secondary.