Military Review

"Social" in all its glory: the Ministry of Labor proposes to deprive non-working citizens of free medical care

287
The Minister of Labor, Mr. Topilin, made another unique initiative the day before. This initiative is aimed at reducing unemployment in the country and bringing to the "official" work of those who are working today, but do not personally inform Topilina or our state as a whole. The initiative was born in the explicit spirit of humanism and social orientation ...


"Social" in all its glory: the Ministry of Labor proposes to deprive non-working citizens of free medical care


So, in order to reduce the unemployment rate in the country, Maxim Topilin makes a proposal that non-working people will not be able to receive free medical care. The experiences and arguments of the Minister of Labor are as follows:

Why does the subject's budget transfer money to the compulsory health insurance fund for non-working people without assessing the situation? Among the "non-working" there are those who work, have income, but do not pay taxes and do not make contributions to social funds. Then why should they receive medical assistance at the expense of those who also work, but at the same time make obligatory payments?


Of course, on the one hand the logic is visible. Indeed, in our country there are enough people who are officially listed as unemployed, but at the same time they themselves work and earn good money. At the same time, taxes are not paid to the budget, but they continue to count on free medical care. They continue to count like the majority of Russians, who work officially, pay taxes, as they say, for themselves and for that guy ...

But the whole catch is that the fact of having unofficial earnings must be proved by someone else. Who will be engaged in such work? Do the Ministry of Labor will create a kind of jurisdiction, whose employees will go around the homes of the unemployed, to establish surveillance on them in order to determine whether these people receive income or not. And if a certain unemployed Sidorov is caught in the fact that he sold a bag of potatoes grown in his garden or chicken from his small farm on the market, then what is he? - free medical care deprived? Like, look, you found what kind of fist: officially, you know, it doesn’t work, but it is bargaining with potatoes - let them pay to paid clinics, let him have “paid” doctors appendicitis with hernia and cut them out ... I don’t see him with state aid!

And what will the state do if a person really cannot find a suitable job due to certain circumstances? After all, often domestic employment centers of the population follow the path of offering truly “any work” to a person who applies to them. For example, a woman with a higher technical education “in the absence of suitable vacancies” is offered to “temporarily” pick apples or mountain ash from an agricultural company (an example, by the way, is real). And if such a job seeker suddenly refuses from the proposed job, having decided that it would be better to raise the child and engage in her personal plot without thinking, then she, too, would be deprived of free medical care? ..

According to the idea voiced, the hypothetical “potato dealer” and the woman who refused to collect the rowan offered by the employment center should certainly be deprived of “free” medical care, “stimulating” to any employment if only taxes are paid and contributions to all social funds are made.
If the Ministry of Labor, headed by Maxim Topilin, takes up the promotion of such an idea, the Ministry of Labor can be renamed the “Ministry of Labor at any cost!”

Let us turn to the consideration of another situation, which puts a big and bold question mark on the initiative of the minister. According to official statistics, unemployment in the Republic of Ingushetia is more than 44%. This is the highest figure among all the subjects of the federation. However, the majority of non-working residents of the republic simply do not have the opportunity to find a job. And not only the workplace in the specialty, but in general at least some work. When the industrial, agricultural and many other areas are far from being in a delightful state, then you can poke a finger at people as much as you want, saying that the parasites have bred here, but will it improve the situation? .. And it’s really hard to imagine what will happen , if, for example, a woman who is in a position that has not worked before, will be denied free medical care for obstetric aid.

But in Russia and in addition to Ingushetia there are enough regions where everything is not all right with the availability of jobs. These are many other republics of the North Caucasus Federal District, Tyva, Kalmykia, Kurgan, Irkutsk regions, the Republic of Altai, the Jewish Autonomous Region, and the Trans-Baikal Territory.
Or Minister Topilin really believes that in the same, for example, Tyva, every 9 local resident deliberately takes time off from employment, getting “profits” away from doing the state, and that every ninth needs medical care in free clinics and hospitals deprive? Questions ... Questions ...

At the same time, the Ministry of Labor, the Ministry of Health, and indeed our entire government somehow do not care very much that free medical services in Russia are truly free. If Maxim Topilin is worried about why officially working Russians have to pay free medical care for unemployed Russians (and such, according to statistics from the same Ministry of Labor 5,4%), then the overwhelming majority of working Russians are concerned about a completely different question: why are we, working Russians, paying taxes, to put it mildly, we often encounter a situation when we are offered to pay for “free” medicine? The question is in style: well, will we put a free pay, or better pay a couple of thousands to keep it? .. That is, our OMS policy does not seem to pull “and for free, and so to hold” ... Then o what free medicine in question.

No, we will not extrapolate such a situation to all regions, all hospitals and all doctors, but still the term “free medicine” in our country is getting closer to the real oxymoron itself.

In general, instead of imposing sanctions on the unemployed, the Ministry of Labor would be better to think about creating a sufficient number of jobs in the country with decent wages and social guarantees. It would be much more effective.

PS Maxim Topilin - Minister of Labor and SOCIAL PROTECTION.
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 07: 21 New
    55
    Well, he’ll certainly not be treated in Russia, in any case.
    1. Romn
      Romn 26 September 2013 07: 32 New
      -46
      I don’t know about you, but I think this proposal is right. I can tell an example of the place where I live - Ufa, Bashkiria. The number of vacancies is at least 2 times higher than the number of unemployed, only apparently most of these people have noble blood and cannot afford to work in low-cost and not very paid jobs. Do not take it for rudeness, most people are either very smart and don’t pay a gram of taxes, or don’t want to hit finger and finger, but they can scream how bad the state and government are and why they live so poorly. Need to force!
      As for the initiative, but this person also did not fall from the sky to this position.
      1. Jrvin
        Jrvin 26 September 2013 07: 43 New
        39
        You see, this is one side of the coin, but what about us in Transbaikalia where there really is no work, and a lot of unemployed people who are interrupted by random earnings from serving to hunger strike and again to serving or casual earnings ... so do not judge by yourself. It has long been proposed in areas where there are richest minerals to allow their extraction to the population, for example, we have a lot of gold in the Trans-Baikal Territory, why not allow mining to the local population? right, let’s better put this population on the brink of extinction when the light is 3,9 r / kWh ... that’s why the people have to survive who can, who steal, who engage in illegal business ... people are happy to work but nowhere.
        1. 31231
          31231 26 September 2013 08: 15 New
          0
          I don’t know where exactly you live. But working in Amurka and Khabar, I saw a lot of hard workers from Buryatia and Chita. And nothing works.
          1. Jrvin
            Jrvin 26 September 2013 13: 30 New
            16
            Well, would you like to live, for example, in Khabarovsk and go to work on duty in Honduras for 30-40 thousand? People probably want the same thing to work on the spot and not dangle around the country ...
            1. 31231
              31231 26 September 2013 17: 37 New
              -6
              If a person wants to work, he will find a job. And those who go to the labor exchange and say "I don't like this because of the low pay, this is because of the long workday, and this is because of the rotational method" do not deserve much respect.
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 26 September 2013 21: 26 New
                +3
                Quote: 31231
                If a person wants to work, he will find a job. And those who go to the labor exchange and say "I don't like this because of the low pay, this is because of the long workday, and this is because of the rotational method" do not deserve much respect.

                And if it is a mother of two children? Which work is needed like air, it cannot afford to work for 3 thousand ...........
                In your words it shows through one-sided perception!
        2. vvvvv
          vvvvv 26 September 2013 08: 54 New
          12
          Read carefully, because it emphasizes: "without assessing the situation." Those. we are not talking about everyone. And to come out of the shadows who really work and earn good money. I myself will not legalize (yet) because of the stupid bureaucracy with all sorts of pieces of paper. Before he was registered as an entrepreneur and paid all taxes, and then they complicated it and there is simply no time to run around with paperwork and reporting. Those. it's not about money and greed. You yourself, pliz, do not look at the situation one-sidedly.
          The paradox is that I defend a position that is against my interests. It is much easier to have an engaged opinion and defend it. This is the misfortune of Russia, that even the sensible corrupt officials turn over common things into attacks on the authorities. What good can be achieved in Russia ?!
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 10: 35 New
            14
            Quote: vvvvv
            Those. it's not about everyone

            All vicious laws were passed. First, with nice words like "We will try, if it gets worse, we will roll back". But reality shows that the opposite is true. First, they will adopt the law, and then they will bring it with amendments to its logical conclusion, PAID MEDICINE. The USE was also a pilot project at first, so what ?!
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 26 September 2013 12: 04 New
              25
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              First, they will adopt the law, and then bring it with amendments to its logical conclusion, PAID MEDICINE

              - Gentlemen, you are all grown-up people, verb to the fullness of free medicine. Free medicine in the MARKET economy - nonsense and misunderstanding. It can exist for some time as a kind of atavism, simply by inertia, but no more. The same applies to education, including vocational and higher.
              So in the future, free medicine and free education will disappear.
              This can happen in several ways. The most preferable one is when income growth of the vast majority of the population allows them to pay for using these services in a paid form. Free forms in this case will be depopulated and will die as unnecessary. But I DO NOT BELIEVE such a form of dying off free forms. Most likely there will be a tougher form of transition. We can hardly wait until 50% of the population will be able to pay for these services - they completely eliminate all free forms. And 50% of vulnerable people will be forced to run around social security offices with certificates justifying assistance from the state. While you collect information, while they write out a quota for help from the state, you yourself will die. A woman with a cart is easier for a mare. Ideally for the state, ideally for the Topilins and others — a person honestly plows until retirement age, pays all taxes, and takes it and dies on the very first retirement night. And they will achieve this ideal with all the strength and fiber of the soul. This is a market economy, gentlemen. Welcome!
              1. optimist
                optimist 26 September 2013 20: 42 New
                +5
                Quote: aksakal
                This is a market economy, gentlemen. Welcome!

                Which, as they say, was required to prove! If you look closely, now there is a tendency to austerity Absolutely ALL !!! And no matter what the Putinoids scream, the country falls into a deep ... cosmic speed. It’s with similar methods that they try to slow down this drop even a little. I understand that you can save on many other things, but not on the HEALTH of CITIZENS !!! The power of such initiatives only once again proves that the people are FUCKING on her! I agree that if a woman wants herself 10th size boobs or diamond teeth, then let her pay out of pocket. But if a person has acute appendicitis or an open fracture, but there is no money and work, then why die now ???
                1. LSV
                  LSV 26 September 2013 22: 07 New
                  +3
                  I don’t understand this twofoldness - at first they talk about the need to correct demographic problems and shove this bill right away? Where is the logic?
                2. does it
                  does it 27 September 2013 17: 09 New
                  0
                  Quote: optimist
                  If you look closely, now there is a tendency to austerity Absolutely ALL !!!
                  Yeah, given the undisguised corruption in Russia from which hair is on end, and this is in a country crammed with all kinds of resources.
              2. LSV
                LSV 26 September 2013 22: 06 New
                +2
                "So in the long term, both free medicine and free education will disappear."
                Then the Constitution will have to be rewritten, and there they will get a bolt, because people in a referendum will not vote for her
              3. VADIMKRSK
                VADIMKRSK 26 September 2013 22: 31 New
                +2
                Not Man, but a resource of economics. Not necessary - to a landfill, necessary - to use to the limit with a minimum of costs. Effective managers ...
            2. Scoun
              Scoun 26 September 2013 12: 35 New
              +5
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              All the vicious laws were passed. First with beautiful words like-

              +
              Unique,
              Innovative.
              High tech.
              Eco friendly
              Skolkovsky
              aaa, we have a member of the SEZ who climbed into the SEZ who, with the words innovation nano and so on, got in with the "dead" project of high-speed trains, and his company now works as before only with all the preferences of the SEZ
              And behind most of the beautiful words lies the modern rip-off people.
              PS.
              Most of those who do real and really high-tech and have no analogues in the world without any pump, just work hard.
              As an example, the Ufa plant.
              According to experts of the company, the electrochemical machines of the ET series, manufactured by ECM LLC, are significantly superior in their technological indicators to world-famous analogues, including Japanese ones.

              This is recognized by the Japanese themselves.
          2. Ascetic
            Ascetic 26 September 2013 12: 00 New
            18
            Quote: vvvvv
            "without assessing the situation."


            Yesterday I listened to these figures in the car, standing in a traffic jam, and then looked at the proposals of the Republicans in the US Congress to preserve the ceiling of the national debt in opposition to the "communist"
            Obama. The measures are offered almost one-to-one, in particular the postponement of the introduction of an "individual mandate" - a provision that comes into force in 2014 and obliges US citizens to purchase health insurance under the threat of a fine. tax potency of a citizen. Topilin offers roughly the same thing. Another parrot vyser from the series, but in civilized America it is like that, so we, too, should be home-servitors. The same as with the emblem for the army on yesterday's branch. And you say an assessment of the situation, than to evaluate if the brains are formatted with liberal ideas and are zombified by Americanism.
        3. varov14
          varov14 26 September 2013 11: 14 New
          12
          But we will soon have the Olympics and in 18g there will be football and in general it’s enough to be treated for free, guest workers somehow get out - we’ll change the population.
        4. bif
          bif 26 September 2013 12: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Jrvin
          This you see one side of the coin, but what about us in Transbaikalia where there really is no work,

          You can write and do anything you like, but the other side of the coin is the medical side itself ... that is. quality of medical care and qualification of medical staff.
          So, the compulsory medical insurance system in the current state is USELESS, in hospitals there is only aspirin and diphenhydramine in the "soft spot", salaries of medical workers are also, to put it mildly, worthless (and this, by the way, is the most difficult and long-term profession) ... I LIKE this reform, but it will easily be done according to the all-Russian principle "we wanted the best - it turned out as always."
          There is a wonderful experience of our "partners".
          In the Russian reality, compulsory medical insurance is needed only at the stage of first aid and medical care (in hospitals) according to indications, i.e. treatment of emergency cases with potential fatal outcome (open fractures, heart attack, stroke, appendicitis ... peritonitis, bleeding, etc.), everything else is only VHI, and contributions are made there as an employer, so the employee himself (if not working), i.e. if you are unemployed ... no one will let you die on the street (compulsory medical insurance will save you!), but you can treat your angina, sciatica, arterial hypertension and other "non-emergency" diseases at the VHI pole or for a fee.
          I understand that the money that appears can easily not reach consumers (the purchase of medicines, doctors of doctors), but I want to hope ...
          To people who shout that there is no work, I will say as they say to doctors - "if something does not suit you, change your profession or place of residence."
          1. Jrvin
            Jrvin 26 September 2013 13: 38 New
            15
            Ha, well, let me change my place of residence, a neighbor will change, and tomorrow in Transbaikalia the population will be like in the north of Yakutia 1 person for several hundred kilometers, and now the main question will be how long the “ownerless” richest land will “lie around” for a long time? Our region gives 90% of all uranium mined in the country, completely all molybdenum, coal, timber, gold ... and in the ranking of regions almost in last place, how is it? paradox...
            1. bif
              bif 26 September 2013 14: 21 New
              -7
              So change your profession or change something else in your life, in Russia doctors work for 10t.r. and pay taxes, listen to "if you don't like it - go away" and other "pleasant" words from people like you, who believe that the state is obliged to create heavenly conditions for them: don't work, don't pay taxes, but everything is free for you ... it happens.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 15: 07 New
                +6
                Quote: bif
                they must create heavenly conditions: don’t work, don’t pay taxes, but here’s everything for free ... it doesn’t happen

                in fact, we all pay taxes when buying goods, it is in them that all taxes sit
                1. bif
                  bif 26 September 2013 17: 12 New
                  -3
                  read the tax base again
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 17: 23 New
                    +2
                    Do you think that taxes from another are obtained?
                    taxes are paid on the goods and everything is in the price of the goods, I'm sorry, but for 15 years it has been forming prices
                    1. bif
                      bif 26 September 2013 20: 30 New
                      0
                      you are talking about value added tax .. and I'm talking about income tax. these are different things
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 20: 45 New
                        +6
                        income is paid with a salary which sits in the value of the goods, absolutely all taxes are paid by the buyer's wallet, they will not buy the goods, they will not receive money to the seller-producer-state in the form of taxes
                      2. Realist58
                        Realist58 27 September 2013 21: 34 New
                        -1
                        and VAT, no excise taxes on your favorite products go to the FMS (medicine).

                        You would be better off taxing the extraction of minerals here. Although I doubt that you will be able to clearly substantiate how Makar he relates to the FMS.
                      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 00: 29 New
                        -1
                        Don’t say anything stupid, the tax goes to the budget there, this money is distributed, so let's not, or do you think that medicine is only provided by insurance contributions? !!!
                      4. Realist58
                        Realist58 28 September 2013 01: 17 New
                        -1
                        First, manufacturers of your daily demand items are most often not VAT payers.
                        Secondly, VAT is paid (roughly) from the seller’s added income. It’s not you who pays his VAT, it’s he who pays part of his margin to the general budget.
                        And thirdly, I wrote somewhere that ONLY due to insurance premiums?
                      5. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 09: 34 New
                        0
                        Quote: Realist58
                        It’s not you who pays his VAT, it’s he who pays part of his margin to the general budget.

                        the first thing that he would pay you first have to buy his goods otherwise there’s simply nothing to pay
                        second, when this tax was just introduced, the cost of the goods was stupidly increased by 20 percent so it was simply transferred to your shoulders
                        the third VAT is in one way or another in ALL goods directly or indirectly
                      6. Realist58
                        Realist58 28 September 2013 12: 11 New
                        0
                        That was a long time ago. After that, the simplified tax system, patent, etc.
                        You would still remember the egg tax.
                        The pricing of the VAT payer depends on the price of USN goods, etc.
                        So, to take the whole VAT at the expense of the consumer, the majority is simply NOT IN CONDITION.
                        Little where that sits. Most of this is not paid by you, but by the seller with your margin.

                        Threat. Do not include Durkee, and no one will be rude.
                      7. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 13: 51 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Realist58
                        Most of this is not paid by you, but by the seller with your margin.

                        the first and foremost any, I repeat ANY walrus is the result of the sale of goods, did not buy the goods there is no walrus, ANY TAX sits in the value of the goods, everything else is pure sophistry
    2. Realist58
      Realist58 27 September 2013 21: 28 New
      -2
      In the product that you buy, there are only excise taxes.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 00: 33 New
        0
        what is sitting? !!!!
        Dear your stupid hint, leave for your near and dear ones.
        I basically don’t drink, I had the imprudence in childhood to give a vow.
        moreover, in the alcohol that you hinted at so stupidly, not only is the excise tax sitting, but judging by your economic knowledge, I don’t see any reason to discuss with you on this topic

        p / s / for the future try not to poke at strangers
        1. Realist58
          Realist58 28 September 2013 01: 21 New
          -2
          My dear, let's not touch relatives and friends.
          In childhood, a vow ... then it is clear.
          Keep in mind for the future- for a child, alcohol is poison poisoning the mind.

          Kalyaso, I will vykat)))

          Threat. take irony more calmly.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 09: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Realist58
            take the irony more calmly

            there is some difference between irony and rudeness
  2. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 26 September 2013 16: 22 New
    +6
    Quote: bif
    You, who believe that the state is obliged to create paradise conditions for them
  3. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 26 September 2013 16: 23 New
    +3
    ----------------------------------------
    1. bif
      bif 26 September 2013 17: 11 New
      -7
      And so we learn to read ... as an elementary school.
      It says "budgetary funds" (it is OMS) ... hereinafter "insurance premiums" (it is VMI) ...
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 26 September 2013 19: 38 New
        +7
        Quote: bif
        And so we learn to read ...

        Learn - it is written that at the expense of the budget, insurance premiums and other receipts, medical assistance is provided for FREE.
        1. bif
          bif 26 September 2013 20: 36 New
          -4
          insurance premiums are felt in several ways - by the state, the employer and the employee himself.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 21: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: bif
            insurance premiums are felt in several ways - by the state, the employer and the employee himself.

            That's just the employer pays insurance premiums from the payroll, and not from profit, that is, from the pocket of the same employee.
        2. bif
          bif 26 September 2013 22: 38 New
          0
          Gentlemen are minusers and sympathizers to them, so that there is no misunderstanding again, but is already deployed and chewed.
          NOW in the Russian Federation there is a system of compulsory medical insurance (compulsory medical insurance), the fund of which is filled state and employer (out of 34,2% of the tax fee to the health insurance fund, employers pay 3,1% to the federal one, and 2% to the territorial one). Compulsory medical insurance implies free medical care, but when calculating for one patient (already in a polyclinic or hospital), of which there are millions (including gastro-beaters, unemployed, homeless, etc.), ridiculous sums are obtained - this creates existing problems: small salaries. doctors (valuable personnel leave), lack or absence of medicines (aspirin is not "countless").
          There is also VHI (voluntary medical insurance), the fund of which is filled by the employer and / or the employee himself. Here financing is much more and the patient receives ANY necessary medication or other treatment. Now in self-respecting companies or government agencies, this type of insurance is a necessary component of the social package.
          The difference, if we speak, is simply that in the case of compulsory medical insurance, the harm goes into the "common boiler, and with voluntary health insurance, only individual contributions.
          Now to the question of "non-working" \ "serosarplatics" and others. uklanists. Income tax (personal income tax -13%) goes to the state budget, and from there to the CHI system, employer's taxes (i.e. their part is 5,1%, see above) goes directly to the CHI system. without paying all this higher, you are also counting on GOOD and FREE medical care ...
          The reform, about which the article is just trying to correct this injustice.
          And now, how MUST BE.
          MHI-free emergency assistance to ALL who need it and no more - saved your life and is free.
          VHI - all other treatment methods: trips to the clinic, examinations, and other treatment of severe and non-fatal sores.
          Paid - all of the above for VHI, but in the absence of it ... and for what reason or where to get the money for this should concern the patient himself, when you are hungry you do not offer to give you products in the store for free ...
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 28 September 2013 22: 58 New
            0
            Quote: bif
            the fund of which is filled by the state and the employer

            Come on!? And do not tell me from the fund what the employer fills it with? And where does the state get money for this very filling?
            Quote: bif
            And now, it SHOULD BE. OMS - free emergency assistance to ALL who need it and no more - saved your life and is free. DMS - all other treatment methods: trips to the clinic, examinations and other treatment of severe and non-fatal sores.

            And I am FOR. I agree to buy an annual voluntary health insurance policy for VHI (with all the bells and whistles, including the dentist) for a family of 4 for 1800 X 33 = 59400 rubles. Just like in America. But only on condition that they will pay me 3500 X 33 = 115500 rubles per month.
    2. Realist58
      Realist58 27 September 2013 21: 36 New
      0
      Actually, YES. Enema with a stroke is also a type of medical care.
  4. bif
    bif 26 September 2013 17: 18 New
    0
    Usually it is such people who DEMAND everything for free, they themselves are waiting for a salary. from 50t.r., there is no type of work, or they "cheat" without paying taxes (income tax is 13%, part of these funds goes into insurance) .. and then they are surprised that the witnesses are deprived of the opportunity to recover for free (I do not mean emergency cases)
  5. kaktus
    kaktus 2 October 2013 19: 32 New
    0
    public sector salary - from our taxes
  • Realist58
    Realist58 27 September 2013 21: 52 New
    0
    Your region gives 90 to 90 of this and where to work there? What is it like??????
    Or are you all sitting and waiting for the post of director of Gazprom?
  • atalef
    atalef 26 September 2013 07: 44 New
    +7
    Quote: Romn
    I don’t know about you, but I think this proposal is right. I can tell an example of the place where I live - Ufa, Bashkiria. The number of vacancies is at least 2 times the number of unemployed,.

    What is the connection between whether you work or not and medical care?
    Why, in order for me to remove the appendix, I must definitely work somewhere?
    Do not consider it rudeness, most people are either smartly smart and do not pay a gram of taxes, or they don’t want to hit finger and finger

    To not work at all is a normal desire of any sane person. It is better not to work and relax than to plow - and the only thing that makes the bulk of people work I (from bell to bell - no hobby) is the reward for work in the form of banknotes.
    Therefore, just enter a health tax, those who work, pay, those who do not work (pay a minimum), some categories are exempted --- and you will be happy and there is no need to drive anyone to work from under the stick.
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 51 New
      -14
      In order for you to remove the appendix for free - yes, you have to work somewhere.
      If you do not work anywhere, then you also have the right to provide medical services, but already paid.

      Without contributing to society in the form of charges - for society you are zero (or even a parasite). So, since you are not contributing to society, on what basis do you claim to use public goods?
      You do not come to the store and do not say that you have the right to life and therefore you must feed for free.
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 08: 25 New
        +6
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        In order for you to remove the appendix for free - yes, you have to work somewhere.

        I have to pay taxes, and work, no.

        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        If you do not work anywhere, then you also have the right to provide medical services, but already paid.

        Well, thank God, otherwise listen to it and it will be forbidden to be paid for not working workers (then there will definitely be no unemployment) I tell you once again - they work for paying the tax, and if I pay it without working, what principles do I break?

        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Without contributing to society in the form of charges - for society you are zero

        I don’t give a damn about society from a high bell tower (as many members of this society think of me) I don’t have to bring a moral component to a purely economic project. If you pay a tax, you are healed, you don’t pay and you don’t heal (more precisely, if as with us, then you are treated in the same way because everyone is insured automatically), but you don’t understand this. Therefore, a simpler option, I pay tax (it does not matter how) - I am being treated. And do not force the drive to work.

        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        You do not come to the store and do not say that you have the right to life and therefore you must feed for free.

        Do not confuse basic concepts - like saving lives and feeding the poor (no one in the Russian Federation is dying of hunger).
        1. vvvvv
          vvvvv 26 September 2013 09: 09 New
          +2
          We can agree with much of what has been said. Investor - he does not work in the usual sense. Can play on the stock exchange, be a rentier, etc. On the stock exchange, tax is taken anyway. But whoever rents out premises and apartments - they are usually shady people and live very curly, while people who earn a half and hundreds of times less pay for their honey. services with their own taxes. Of course, Topilin is right here, just absolutely. Just yesterday I was looking at the renting of apartments in Moscow and o.k.r.l. - prices per month are not just in tens of thousands, but in hundreds of thousands ... From 200 thousand to 800 thousand rubles. On average, half a lama a month is not "sour" ... 6 million a year. And not a ruble in taxes. A lot of people live exactly on this and make big babos, but they don't pay any taxes. And in my small town it is just stupid that all apartments are bought out, and this, among other things, raises real estate prices. And a common man will buy an apartment at a reasonable price. After all, businessmen with money stupidly buy everything from the market. Even in the provinces, such guys buy apartments in all cities in their area and in neighboring ones. An apartment was on sale in my entrance - such a person bought it out. In the neighboring, etc.
          Even billboards in our city - other advertisements began to be supplanted, and everywhere "apartments for rent" ... I considered only one area in detail, but it is not one. And here everyone will oppose the initiatives on the topic of the article. But, after all, it is emphasized there: "without assessing the situation." Nobody intends to tyrannize the poor and unfortunate.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 26 September 2013 12: 08 New
            +7
            Quote: vvvvv
            Just yesterday I was looking at the renting of apartments in Moscow and o.k.r.l. - prices per month are not just in tens of thousands, but in hundreds of thousands ... From 200 thousand to 800 thousand rubles. On average, half a liter a month is not "sour" ... 6 million a year.


            Where are these apartments? Penthouses on Kutuzovsky or in Krylatsky?
            the average cost of renting a "odnushka" in Moscow is now 30-35 thousand rubles: with cosmetic repairs and a set of necessary furniture and household appliances, not far from the metro. It will not be the center, but within the Moscow Ring Road. The same apartment, but inside the ring metro - 10 thousand more expensive. 2-room rent - within 40-50 thousand rubles per month. Accommodation in a 3-room - from 50 thousand.
            These are real rental prices
            Yes, there are apartments and a lot of prices, my neighbors in the country rent a four-room apartment in the center on Taganka for 5 thousand euros per month, and this is due to the fact that the owner’s daughter has been working as a realtor for about 15 years. A simple mortal pensioner will never give up his three rubles on Kutuzovsky for that kind of money, there is also an example of a granny living in a country house and rents a three rubles on Kutuzovsky through realtors for 60 thousand rubles. per month, although the real rental price is two times higher,
            1. IRBIS
              IRBIS 26 September 2013 12: 48 New
              +4
              Quote: Ascetic
              Granny lives in the country and rents a three-ruble note on Kutuzovsky through realtors for 60ty.rub. in month

              Not a frail increase in granny's pension! I for a month work hard without unbending.
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 26 September 2013 13: 51 New
                +4
                Quote: IRBIS
                Not a frail increase in granny's pension! I for a month work hard without unbending.

                And I am two. recourse
                1. IRBIS
                  IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 54 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  And I am two.

                  Eugene, maybe we should reread Dostoevsky? Do you think axes are still being sold here without restrictions?
                  1. Vladimirets
                    Vladimirets 26 September 2013 15: 31 New
                    +2
                    Quote: IRBIS
                    Eugene, maybe we should reread Dostoevsky?

                    Alexander, what you mean, I remember without re-reading. wink And then they will feed for free, and put to sleep, though according to the schedule.
                  2. novobranets
                    novobranets 26 September 2013 16: 17 New
                    +4
                    Dostoevsky scolds Raskolnikov- "What did you, Radiosha, bang an old woman for twenty kopecks?" belay - "Don't tell me, Fyodor Mikhalych, five old women, already a ruble." fellow
                2. aksakal
                  aksakal 26 September 2013 17: 43 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  I am two

                  Mlyn, honestly, and I’m a month and a half for such shisha, some two thousand dead raccoons - and this is considered a cool salary in Kazakhstan. Well, you have salaries in Moscow - New York nervously smokes on the sidelines belay
                3. bodriy
                  bodriy 26 September 2013 21: 41 New
                  0
                  druuuuug !!!drinks
              2. Ascetic
                Ascetic 26 September 2013 15: 23 New
                +3
                Quote: IRBIS
                Not a frail increase in granny's pension! I for a month work hard without unbending.


                Lives alone, Recently went to Spain to visit, On the plot of flowers in the forest mushrooms. Here is such a granny.
                1. IRBIS
                  IRBIS 26 September 2013 17: 25 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  Lives alone, Recently went to Spain to visit, On the plot of flowers in the forest mushrooms. Here is such a granny.

                  Give her the coordinates, I'll marry her ... fellow
                  1. QWERTY
                    QWERTY 26 September 2013 22: 43 New
                    +1
                    She lived at one time with a lady of about 45-50 years old, so she has 3 apartments in St. Petersburg, rents everything, she lives in Italy herself.
            2. Dober
              Dober 26 September 2013 15: 03 New
              +4
              What can I say ... Nothing, but you can silently cover it.
              This is where such appetites come from, and from whom? They also say that they live "badly" in Russia if they can afford such expenses for renting housing. Not all, of course.
              I will give an example in rubles for ease of understanding.
              We are renting a house of 140 sq.m. for 35 in the village, 000 km from a large city. With individual heating, a warm garage for 28 car, some households. buildings in the yard. 1 m. From the cleanest lake, with asphalt. dear and others. USUAL conditions. True, apart from paying for the electric train. and water.
              Lease agreement through an agency. 9000 is compensated by the company, as well as part of the cost of gasoline to get to the place of work.
              Anyway, this is a little more than 1/4 of the total income of my wife and I.
              So how much do they earn in Moscow. Maybe we’ll rush to you with all Mecklenburg? Let's remove the "odnushki in the socket" on the 15-25th floors and send the mulion rubles to Bundasia?
              But from honey. We will not refuse German insurance ... Where can we "batex" and cut cellulite ... laughing
          2. Scoun
            Scoun 26 September 2013 13: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: vvvvv
            But who rents out premises and apartments - they are usually shadow workers and live very curly

            Speak curly, but please tell me if curly that your best years are up to 35 years, my wife and I worked for 12 hours, plus winding to work and back, good health and everything in order to at least retire ourselves and to protect children, all the more so since the latest movements in pension reform are alarming once again and for 30000 a family of 4 will not work curly.
            .... Deleted, Ascetic below painted everything.
          3. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 26 September 2013 16: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: vvvvv
            From 200 thousand to 800 thousand rubles. On average, half a liter a month is not "sour" ... 6 million a year.

            The one whose income exceeds 70-80 tr per month, and so it is mainly treated for a fee, whose income is less than 70 tr also forced to pay extra.

            Anyone who rents a hut in private without paying taxes does not stand on the labor exchange and does not receive benefits, that is, in fact, pays tax in the amount of this allowance.
        2. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 26 September 2013 11: 36 New
          +6
          Quote: atalef
          I have to pay taxes, and work, no.

          However, you should be aware that in Russia, in Moscow in particular, there are a lot of people driving out on Bentleys too, sometimes in simpler cars and boasting of their state of being "unemployed" or "temporarily not working". You yourself understand that such people have a stable and healthy income. But they do not pay taxes and believe that this is normal. Here, most likely, it is about these that we are talking about.
          Furthermore. I know people who work on a "black salary", i.e. without official registration, and listed at the labor exchange, receiving benefits there as well. But they don't pay taxes! How do you like this example?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 15: 12 New
            +8
            Quote: Hedgehog
            it is about these that the main point is being discussed.

            we are talking about them, and housewives will not be treating
        3. Sibiryak
          Sibiryak 26 September 2013 18: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          they work for tax pay, and if I pay it without working

          laughing Very interesting, and how do you imagine it?
      2. Ayrat M
        Ayrat M 26 September 2013 12: 44 New
        +5
        and VAT 18%, sitting in the price of each product? it is paid by any, even not working, person. What is this if not a contribution to society?
        1. Dober
          Dober 26 September 2013 15: 52 New
          +3
          True remark !!! I also immediately thought about it as soon as I read the article.
          Only VAT is included not only in the price of the product, but also in the price of services, for example, a call from a mobile phone or the price of a ticket.
      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 15: 10 New
        +8
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Without contributing to society in the form of charges - for society you are zero (or even a parasite).

        life example, seed husband, wife and three children (rural area), the husband works in the city 5 days a week for the weekend he returns home, the children in school the wife watches the household, the sheep, the bird, the horse, are considered unemployed.
        it follows from your thought that it is a parasite, but is it so? !!!
      4. alex84
        alex84 26 September 2013 16: 15 New
        0
        Then let's cancel: allowances and all payments for children, cancel maternity leave (like in the West, 6 weeks and go to work), cancel maternity capital too, make preschool and school education paid, no benefits for large families, parents must buy honey for their children ... we will also cancel insurance for housewives, regardless of children - why should I also support your children, after all, I pay taxes, they will squeal for many hours, and if you cancel insurance for non-working, these questions will be posed, if you want to live according to the principle "my house is on the edge" like this live, if you want a child, pay for it in full, as a taxpayer, I also do not want and do not have to support your children.
        Why then should the rest pay for their taxes to your children education, medicine, various benefits. Why taxpayers should pay maternity leave for your wife, your child is also not interested in taxpayers, and your wife does not work and receives money, there is also zero public benefit from her on maternity leave. The benefits of your child to society are also zero, if you want a child, then pay for it in full. Others do not need your children either, and they also do not want to support them on their taxes. How did you like this prospect, and you and your hamovati wives with children, in their opinion, are obliged, only taxpayers also do not want to pay all the needs of your children
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 27 September 2013 09: 36 New
          0
          Quote: alex84
          Then let's cancel: allowances and all payments for children, cancel maternity leave


          ... maybe we’ll deport the better Gastrik?
      5. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 26 September 2013 18: 25 New
        -8
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        So, since you are not contributing to society, on what basis do you claim to use public goods?

        I propose that all officially unemployed people be deprived of all civil rights, because they are not needed for the country.
        1. Armata
          Armata 26 September 2013 18: 53 New
          +6
          Quote: Pilat2009
          I propose that all officially unemployed people be deprived of all civil rights, because they are not needed for the country.
          Moron fool
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 19: 56 New
            +4
            Quote: Mechanic
            Moron

            Directly removed from the tongue! They must be euthanized by such clever ones.
        2. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 20: 07 New
          +2
          and mothers who raise children ?!
          I have such a proposal to deprive citizenship
          1. Arabist
            Arabist 26 September 2013 20: 08 New
            +1
            In Russia, no one can be deprived of citizenship.
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 20: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            I have such a proposal to deprive citizenship

            DEBILOB, moderators lured
        3. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 26 September 2013 21: 30 New
          0
          come on, don’t be offended. I’ve joked
      6. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 26 September 2013 18: 58 New
        +8
        Of course you don’t work “right”, don’t live. Who the hell needs you if you don't pay taxes! Our state does not need you as a person! You are needed as a soldier, a machine for the production of taxpayers, as a taxpayer, but if you do not pay taxes, you are disabled, retired, etc. you are a burden to our democratic state. The present state (its apparatus) needs stupid taxpayers, of any nationality, just to pay taxes! If the elite had any concern for the health of the nation, we would have the best healthcare in the world! Medicine is our present, teachers are our future! Both are in deep ass. Our state is mediocre, but systematically destroys its people.
        1. Armata
          Armata 26 September 2013 19: 04 New
          +3
          Quote: Starina_Hank
          Of course you don’t work “right”, don’t live. Who the hell needs you if you don't pay taxes! Our state does not need you as a person! You are needed as a soldier, a machine for the production of taxpayers, as a taxpayer, but if you do not pay taxes, you are disabled, retired, etc. you are a burden to our democratic state. The present state (its apparatus) needs stupid taxpayers, of any nationality, just to pay taxes! If the elite had any concern for the health of the nation, we would have the best healthcare in the world! Medicine is our present, teachers are our future! Both are in deep ass. Our state is mediocre, but systematically destroys its people.
          That's right.
        2. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 26 September 2013 19: 42 New
          +4
          Quote: Starina_Hank
          but if you do not pay taxes, a disabled person, a senior citizen, etc. you are a burden to our democratic state.
        3. VADIMKRSK
          VADIMKRSK 26 September 2013 23: 04 New
          +2
          The state - apparatus most of the people unnecessarily. Working and non-blather payers are required ...
          1. Dober
            Dober 27 September 2013 00: 28 New
            0
            Quote: VADIMKRSK
            Working and non-blather payers are required ...

            CONSUMERS !!!
            Any economy needs CONSUMERS! This is the axiom of capitalism! And the management tools are WITHOUT.NET, the "card system", which is issued AT THE WORK PLACE.
            The words of this *** aras fit into the general trend of population replacement. These ("who remembered Stalin") will die out faster - they will take their place ELECTORATE.
            They are, in any case, better than "there". Therefore - "unanimously" ...
          2. O_RUS
            O_RUS 27 September 2013 09: 40 New
            0
            precisely noticed -
            Quote: VADIMKRSK
            The state - apparatus most of the people unnecessarily. Working and non-blather payers are required ...


            ... easily manageable herd.
          3. does it
            does it 27 September 2013 18: 33 New
            0
            Quote: VADIMKRSK
            and not blather payers ...

            That's just the point with the silent it’s easier to tear money! For example housing and communal services! Receipts come, plus give them money in black and white in these receipts, and more every month! At the same time you’ll get to hell for years to demand that they did it. am angry
    2. Romn
      Romn 26 September 2013 08: 09 New
      +9
      atalef
      Do you suggest that the unemployed demand a tax, demand a person who has nothing to pay already !?)

      atalef Not working at all is the normal desire of any sane person. Better not to work and rest.

      You have interesting thinking!
      I have always believed that the normal desire of any sane person is just to work, try to achieve great heights, earn good money and live in abundance!
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 08: 32 New
        +2
        Quote: Romn
        Do you suggest that the unemployed demand a tax, demand a person who has nothing to pay already !?)

        Yes, the minimum, we have unemployed pay, believe me no one has died

        Quote: Romn
        To not work at all is a normal desire of any sane person. Better not to work and rest.

        You have interesting thinking!

        Yes, and it’s better to be rich and healthy. than poor and sick. And if I won a lot of money in the lottery, enough to meet my modest needs and partially children, I would have abandoned my job with such a mother. And I would find that something is just for the soul and without obligation

        Quote: Romn
        I always thought that the normal desire of any sane person is just to work

        Do not confuse work and earn money. Different things are badly related to each other. I like archeology, but you won’t earn it. Such is the bum.

        Quote: Romn
        try to achieve great heights, earn good money and live in abundance!

        Again, you confuse between a person’s normal desire to work (I mean, do something pleasing to him --- annanism doesn’t wassat ) and making money. Believe me, if money were canceled tomorrow, half would change jobs.
        1. Romn
          Romn 26 September 2013 08: 45 New
          +2
          atalef
          I don’t know about you, but we don’t have to pay taxes (if he’s without a worker) and it’s easier to get him to work, such a mentality!

          quote atalef Do not confuse work and earn money. Different things are badly related to each other. I like archeology, but you won’t earn it. Such is the bum.

          Well, yes, for some reason I always thought that if you really do something and you have real abilities in your business, then everything will work out. A man will achieve everything if he really wants and archeology can bring a lot of money and fame, etc.
          And if a person does not even have the desire to do something elementary, then of course it is better to relax. And then to old age go and beg for some sort of benefits, payments, etc.!
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 08: 55 New
            +3
            Quote: Romn
            I don’t know about you, but we don’t have to pay taxes (if he’s without a worker) and it’s easier to get him to work, such a mentality!

            Nobody likes to pay taxes, but when you pay, there is a return (you see it - it's a completely different matter, and the state does not leave you many options.

            Quote: Romn
            Well, yes, for some reason I always thought that if you really do something, you have real abilities in your business, then everything will turn out

            I have a wonderful job and in many respects my favorite job, while working I am really satisfied with both my advancement and my salary (although I would like more), but there is a more beloved business that will never bring me those material and other benefits than what i have now. Therefore, it’s not always a hobby --- financially and life is such that you have to choose between work and earning.

            Quote: Romn
            archeology can bring big money and fame, etc.

            Neither in my years nor with my education - but this does not prevent me from loving her.

            Quote: Romn
            And if a person does not even have the desire to do something elementary, then of course it is better to relax. And then go to old age and beg for some kind of benefits, payments, etc.!

            You know, I saw 9 homeless people), even in Luxembourg. Someone is ready to live in a garbage dump and begging, not working and happy with it. someone achieves everything himself, is proud and feels great. People are different, there is no equality and never will be.
      2. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 26 September 2013 12: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Romn
        Do you suggest that the unemployed demand a tax, demand a person who has nothing to pay already !?)

        In Israel, everything is somewhat different than in Russia. But even there, it is possible to carry out any work without paying taxes, for example, giving homework, not to advertise this, and receive benefits for caring for sick old people. This benefit, as I understand it, is given to those who have no income.
      3. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 26 September 2013 19: 53 New
        0
        Self-expression through your work! Unless of course there is something to express!
    3. 31231
      31231 26 September 2013 08: 18 New
      +2
      I’ll probably tell you the paradox of Russia, but many of us have shares in the business, illegally hate, while remaining official unemployed. I personally know hundreds of such people.
      1. Jarilo
        Jarilo 26 September 2013 09: 14 New
        12
        Quote: 31231
        many of us have shares in the business, they are illegally kalymy, while remaining official unemployed. I personally know hundreds of such people.

        Yes, there are such people, but in Russia there are a huge number of really unemployed (A. Volodin writes about them), who, due to the circumstances, have lost their jobs, should they die? Does the state rob them of their right to life? There is no work, no money, he got sick, they won’t heal, die.

        RS: Thank you very much to Alexey Volodin. All articles are topical, relevant and reasoned.
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 26 September 2013 09: 57 New
          14
          Quote: Yarylo
          Yes, there are such people, but in Russia there are a huge number of really unemployed (A. Volodin writes about them), who, due to the circumstances, have lost their jobs, should they die?

          Well, the logic of the minister is something like this. Then building the chain of reasoning of the minister further, it is possible and so. You don’t work, don’t pay taxes, we won’t treat, but you also consume air for free, at a cost. So be it, we will pay for the bullet. No man, no problem. And the fact that in Moscow, for example, after 45 years it is impossible to get a job by age qualification, this is not taken into account. KOZL, in one word.

          Maxim Topilin - Minister of Labor and SOCIAL PROTECTION.
          I would call a minister supreme social protection measure.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 26 September 2013 17: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Garrin
            but you also consume air for free

            Jokes - jokes ...
        2. 31231
          31231 26 September 2013 10: 59 New
          +3
          There probably must be approached comprehensively. For example, unemployed for more than six months, or I have been working for less than six months in a year, then please be healthy.
          My mother’s young neighbor from the zone leaned back and did not work for more than 3 months at any job. For a booze is constantly catching up.
          In the so-called brotherhood offices, heaps of officially abandoned unemployed. They live by extortion and various criminal topics.
        3. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 26 September 2013 16: 57 New
          +4
          Quote: Yarylo
          [Does the state rob them of their right to life?

          The state takes away the right to life even from workers - which is evidenced by the cost of living, underestimated by 2 times in relation to reality, and the minimum wage, even not reaching this minimum of 2400 rubles.
        4. aksakal
          aksakal 26 September 2013 17: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: Yarylo
          RS: Thank you very much to Alexey Volodin. All articles are topical, relevant and reasoned.

          I also like this author, respect to him
    4. Net
      Net 26 September 2013 10: 05 New
      +9
      Haha laughing Like in that joke. Syoma, are you already settled? No, I'm still working recourse
    5. bif
      bif 26 September 2013 14: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      What is the connection between whether you work or not and medical care?
      Why, in order for me to remove the appendix, I must definitely work somewhere?

      I agree the example is FAILURE, the appendectomy operation is performed according to vital indications.
      Here's another one: if you were stabbed with a knife on the street, then you will be provided with full medical assistance (including surgery and hospitalization + medication). Whether you work independently or not, even if you are not a citizen of the Russian Federation, this is the main and only purpose of compulsory medical insurance. free help on LIFE indications.
      But your stomach, hemorrhoids, or varicose veins of your legs (any non-fatal disease at this moment) got sick ... you MUST be treated either PAID or by VHI ... and here it has indirect value whether you work or not, because you need either valid VHI or cash.
    6. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 16: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: atalef
      What is the connection between whether you work or not and medical care?

      The most direct - saving laughing

      What is happening now in the Russian Federation is called "budget sequestration" - hence the social. norms for electricity and water consumption (designed to increase not savings, but cost), hence the freeze of salary indexation, hence this crap.
  • Civil
    Civil 26 September 2013 08: 04 New
    +4
    The number of loafers, especially before the age of 30 and after 40 in Bashkiria, is simply amazing, and indeed it is. What do they live on? Who like, but everyone is looking for a prestigious job from 50 thousand.
    1. Romn
      Romn 26 September 2013 08: 16 New
      -1
      Civil
      I completely agree with you. And most importantly, ask who is to blame for their idleness and position, most will blame the government, the state, aliens, solar storms, but no one will show themselves.
      And here we cannot but agree with Vernem_SSSR, we must punish parasitism! Parasites in nature they do not bring anything good!
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 09: 00 New
        +9
        Quote: Romn
        And most importantly, ask who is to blame for their idleness

        Only idler is to blame for idleness


        Quote: Romn
        And here we cannot but agree with Vernem_SSSR, we must punish parasitism!

        No need, it is necessary to create such conditions that a person would be profitable and necessary to work. And let the parasites eat from the trash - this is their choice. why bother

        Quote: Romn
        Parasites in nature they do not bring anything good!

        Parasites are often ecosystems and there is nothing to be done, there is a part of society that does not want to work and prefers to bomb. Give them this pleasure, they do not claim your niche in this life, unfortunately all these cables (let's be honest) are the same citizens of the country and have the same voting right as responsibility for their fate. Sometimes it’s not worth taking a person out of shit - this may be his home.
        1. Romn
          Romn 26 September 2013 09: 11 New
          0
          Well, yes, I can only agree with that!
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic 26 September 2013 12: 49 New
          10
          Quote: atalef
          No need, it is necessary to create such conditions that a person would be profitable and necessary to work. And let the parasites eat from the trash - this is their choice. why bother


          Somewhere I heard an aphorism from someone from celebrities that of the entire mass of the population, 10% will always work and will not steal, 10% will never work and will always steal regardless of the conditions created in society. But the majority of 80%
          in its mass it will tend to the first or second, depending on the conditions, that is, if it is not profitable to work and earn and steal as it will be with us now, and if there is no other alternative, as soon as working on the principle of who does not work, then it’s naturally big part will be forced to work honestly. I don’t remember verbatim, therefore I set out in my own words. The current health situation leaves only a choice wealthy personI do not draw working as it should be and secured, use paid services or by compulsory medical insurance. A couple of years ago, in one city near Moscow, we installed our protection equipment in the Israeli clinic Medical Group or He Clinic (I don’t remember exactly). My wife needed an operation, so I asked at the clinic, it cost about 5 thousand euros. And in the Burdenko branch for her for free at my discount. At the same time, if there were no benefits and in Burdenko pay the same money and go. So I had a choice, but most working for our honest salaries there is often no such choice. Often, simply because reforms were carried out in the outback so that there were almost no hospitals and schools, and in the garrisons, Serdyukov completely stole the majority of garrison hospitals. And now, according to the American model, they are proposing in droves to deprive almost all of free medical care. But what about the villages and small towns where the population lives at the expense of pensions or private farms? Moscow unemployed homeless people and bandits, as well as representatives of free professions and rentiers on the drum, but ordinary law-abiding citizens will have no choice but to give their hard-earned money for a torn tooth and cut out appendicitis. And the category of those unemployed who are sitting on free drugs will have to pay a lot of money, and if there is no money then die? There are many questions and few answers.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 26 September 2013 18: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Ascetic
            Somewhere I heard an aphorism from someone from celebrities that of the entire mass of the population, 10% will always work and will not steal, 10% will never work and will always steal regardless of the conditions created in society. But the majority of 80%

            - Mr. Atalef, create this in Israel and then teach us. And then in Russia, your Israelis are lounging around, walking around the deserts in white at the expense of Russian goods and loot, and here you advise Russians to "plow in black." What would increase the good for those "walking in the deserts in white?" Is it enough for them? Already show with the help of those walking in the deserts an example of such plowing, that is, let them return to the people what was stolen in the dashing 90s and plow at least two years of chief experts on the appropriate salary, there, you see, we will listen to your advice. Until then, rest with your advice.
            Quote: Ascetic
            He medicated groups or He-clinics (I do not remember exactly)

            - "He clinics" of Israelis is active in the medical market of the post-Soviet space.
            Quote: Ascetic
            but ordinary law-abiding citizens will not have a choice as soon as they give their hard-earned money for a torn tooth and cut out appendicitis. And the category of those unemployed who are sitting on free drugs will have to pay a lot of money, and if there is no money then die? There are many questions and few answers.
            - Yes, according to Chernomyrdin, everything remained as it was - a great force of habit. While we want the best ... But how come?
        3. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 26 September 2013 20: 32 New
          +2
          In my opinion, garbage is not born, but become. Even with a normal start: education, health, elementary education, a person can get into a difficult situation or stumble.
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 26 September 2013 20: 10 New
        +2
        Yes, people need to pay and stimulate good work! It’s just that we don’t care about people and work, especially about its final result.
  • 31231
    31231 26 September 2013 08: 12 New
    +1
    There are many of those. Especially those who like to live on a dumplings.
  • Gennady1973
    Gennady1973 26 September 2013 08: 47 New
    15
    Romn. With all due respect, I disagree with you, I explain. I myself live in Voronezh, there is no problem with work, albeit with a "gray" salary, but still. But in the village 120 km from the city where I was born, the problem is still the same! which was once called "Red Cadet" not a single farm remained, not a single piece of equipment. The land was rented by a German agrofirm, about 20-25 of my former fellow villagers work in this LLC, please note that it is seasonal in winter, you know, you don’t need to work on the land. ? Twist in different ways, who are younger all go to Moscow on a "watch" do you think they are waiting there and will be issued according to the labor code and social package? Those who are older pull as much as they can on growing animals and potatoes, and then hand them over at bargain prices to dealers Again, all of the above is mainly related to the male population! How to be in such a situation? Leave them without medical assistance?
  • vvvvv
    vvvvv 26 September 2013 08: 49 New
    0
    In vain you minus the person. In support of this, I honestly admit that I am a typical example. And people like me are immeasurably - yes, everyone who does not officially work. What do they live on ?! I judge objectively, albeit INTERESTED IN THE BACK. And you minus the man in vain. Put him the pros.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 09: 08 New
    10
    Quote: Romn
    I don’t know about you, but I think this proposal is right

    Firstly, what is correct in it, and secondly, where in our country they provide free medical care?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 09: 25 New
      +1
      Minus, instead of the answer, hm okay. I will accept the answer
    2. Romn
      Romn 26 September 2013 09: 55 New
      0
      I did not answer you, but where did you not see her. I see her in the clinic at the place of residence, where they accepted me and did not take money! What is not an example for you !? They can be put into a hospital without money for treatment and they will be treated there without money, but of course there are cases when they offer a reasonable choice of treatment, for example, better and more expensive drugs, I don’t see anything special about this, why not !? Doctors say they take it on their paw, they treat it better, perhaps when you thank a person, your attitude to you gets better, and why not, I will continue to thank you. And nobody forces or forces you to do this!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 10: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: Romn
        I see her in the clinic at the place of residence, where they accepted me and did not take money!

        but, fever, runny nose, and if more serious? Start bashing with "free" on the tomograph, and then even more. And God forbid you get sick and you will find out how much a free planned surgery costs hi Thank you be candy laughing As for coercion, it doesn’t force you, but you don’t want to pay in the room with the homeless people and pay.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 11: 06 New
          -1
          Well, you are one of the counts, you are lying dumb with the people, you have everything around you homeless laughing
          Although homeless people in operating rooms do not lie laughing
          So she revealed the truth then .. Free medicine is what it is, but only you yourself and disdain to use it for free laughing
          Alexander, and in the queues with the "homeless", you must also stand dumb?
          Tell me, but we, "homeless people" receiving free treatment, do we not greatly embarrass you with our presence in Russia? Can we, so as not to injure you, take and resolve ourselves? laughing
          Damn it! What muck!
          And these people still bend their fingers ... brave vseyforumnye wars ...
          As if not a social topic, so rot floats.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 11: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Well, you are one of the counts, you are lying dumb with the people

            No, I’m not the count. I don’t want to lie with the homeless, like any other.
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Alexander, and in the queues with the "homeless", you must also stand dumb?

            I have not seen the homeless in the queues !!!
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Tell me, do we, "homeless people" who receive free treatment, do not embarrass you with our presence in Russia?

            So you are homeless, if you leave Russia, the country will not lose much.
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            As if not a social topic, so rot floats.

            as a matter of fact, it’s rot, although you’re better off having a beautiful fairy tale. There’s what you write, in fact, and you’ll write a crap like that, I won’t answer anymore.
        2. Romn
          Romn 26 September 2013 11: 34 New
          0
          Apparently you were not very lucky, since you generally have come across this somewhere. I have not seen or heard of homeless people in hospitals, well, or even people similar to them, although the presence of poor people in hospitals already indicates the presence of that very free medicine! And in your opinion, free means that at a temperature and a runny nose everyone should give you free, do you always take money from doctors ??? laughing And in the same planned operation, they don’t refuse to do it !? But the attitude towards the general mass of people is very interesting for you, it will not bring me discomfort to lie with other people in the common room ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 11: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: Romn
            And in the same planned operation, they don’t refuse to do it !?

            No, they do not refuse, only the deadlines are postponed and that's all laughing
            Quote: Romn
            But the attitude to the general mass of people is very interesting for you, it will not bring me discomfort to lie with other people in the common room ...

            With a lousy bum, so you say it here, and put the first purses in your wallet, you’d transfer them to another one. You don’t need a la, we are all the same people and I didn’t see anyone wanting to be in the same room with drunks. Although you can write everything , whatever. Paper can endure everything
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 12: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: Romn
            And in the same planned operation, they don’t refuse to do it !?

            Do you know what queues for scheduled operations? Have you ever been operated on according to plan? Do not confuse emergency operations with planned ones. With peritonitis, of course, they will not bother you, but you will run into the rest. Personally, they have done a sinusoscopy, so I waited 8 months, according to plan. And they paid for 5 days in the same municipal hospital. So do not be so optimistic.
            Quote: Romn
            But the attitude to the general mass of people is very interesting for you, it will not bring me discomfort to lie with other people in the common room ...

            Have you ever been homeless with a minibus? This is only possible with chronic runny nose. But his eyes still hurt.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 11: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: Romn
        They can put in a hospital without money for treatment and they will treat there without money,

        After free treatment, you often have to spend money on a funeral. There are a lot of examples.
        1. Icestar777
          Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 16 New
          -1
          We would have had fewer funerals if the people knew that there is such a thing as prevention, that it is necessary to run to the doctors not when it "turned black and fell off", but when it just stung. After all, it has come to what it has come to, to make an elementary fluoride, and then it is necessary to lure people into clinics by cunning.
      3. Scoun
        Scoun 26 September 2013 15: 56 New
        +4
        Quote: Romn
        They say doctors take it on their paw, they treat it better

        They say a lot and then the doctor ceases to be a doctor and becomes a "businessman", the doctor should not have a feeling of profit in the first place, otherwise you yourself may become a victim ..
        Recently there was a message on the forum that a large percentage of doctors in the United States were joking about sending operations and procedures that were unnecessary to a person and then receiving money for it.
        The Internet is replete with such reports, Spanish, British and American doctors caught.
        According to medical statistics, tens of thousands of unnecessary surgeries are done in the USA every year. Thousands of people become victims of doctors' fraud, and sometimes just their incompetence. As doctors themselves admit, this problem is hiding from society

        In the same 2011, in the state of Maryland, more than 100 patients filed a lawsuit against a cardiologist, who convinced them to put pacemakers that were unnecessary, as it turned out. And in 2013, nearly 100 clients in Cincinnati accused the doctor of unjustified spinal surgery.
    3. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 44 New
      0
      Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, all polyclinics of the city, come see for yourself.
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 10: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, all polyclinics of the city, come see for yourself.


        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Firstly, what is correct in it, and secondly, where in our country they provide free medical care?

        Sanya, you're not far from there. you can go laughing
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 11: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          Sanya, you're not far from there. you can go

          I went to Sakhalin in 2000, so in Kholmsk I passed customs as if I were a foreigner.
    4. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 26 September 2013 15: 19 New
      +4
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Quote: Romn
      I don’t know about you, but I think this proposal is right

      Firstly, what is correct in it, and secondly, where in our country they provide free medical care?

      Well, for example, in a cardiology research center. I work there and I know that most are treated there for free. And stenting of the coronary arteries according to the quota is no problem, and you don’t even have to run after it. another thing is that sometimes you have to wait in line for hospitalization. But it will be worse - they have already announced that the health budget has been cut by 30%. But ... read our forum and see that the vast majority of its participants want more weapons and good, expensive (without throwing away the old), help Syria, Iran, etc. etc. And also the Olympics and the football championship. Pay attention to the percentage of the budget spent by the USA on health care and this despite the fact that they have expensive insurance, i.e. people pay too. And about the article - of course, there is logic. But you cannot leave people without medical assistance. Can be done as in other countries - emergency care is free - i.e. they won’t let you die if you have an accident or heart attack. But everything else is paid. And then, in fact, people really say that I’ll go to work for that kind of money. I'd rather be home. By the way, in the USA there are more problems for those who work on a low-paid job - they cannot buy insurance, but they are not entitled to benefits and free medical care. It demotivates people to work. I know this from my classmate who works in the USA at a university hospital. By the way, if free help is provided, then they also do expensive surgery - coronary artery bypass grafting, etc. And, of course, emergency care is free.
      But there is no free medicine anywhere (and with us too). Only paid in different ways. If you received a full salary, and only then you yourself paid insurance premiums, then maybe the attitude to this was different. Now we don’t see this money and it’s not like ours - it’s psychologically easier, but the amount is not getting smaller. And, by the way, financing comes not only from insurance money (OMI), but also from the budget. Just different things are paid from different sources. Costly is at the expense of the budget. Hence there are problems - when quotas for expensive ends. MHI in this case has nothing to do with it. By the way, ask how much MHI pay for a doctor’s appointment and how much the doctor receives from this doctor’s appointment. You will be unpleasantly amazed. And next year, a deterioration is planned - some of the expensive things will go into the category of compulsory medical insurance and the hospital will face a dilemma - it’s worse to treat or it’s not clear how much money to compensate for the difference between the costs and the transferred money. And most of the costs are consumables - good ones are imported, and they are very expensive, and ours do almost nothing sensible (with a few exceptions, for example, I know good software, but not hardware). As an example of the price: a week ago we were shown our - Russian - artificial left ventricle with which a person who is waiting for a heart transplant can live almost fully. Such devices could be made only by the USA and Germany. But the price is 4 million rubles (by the way, in the States their device costs about 100 thousand bucks + operation, control, etc. Russia their device already goes for 8 million - our state is trying - this is not the protection of the manufacturer - it just appeared here) . But what’s the difference - in the West this device is installed immediately, as the readings appeared and in thousandths of quantities, and we need to knock out money from our Ministry of Health. Feel the difference when the bill goes on hours or days (the best result is 3 weeks for knocking out, it's good that the question remains relevant). Think about where to start when getting up from your knees. Maybe her nafig Syria and Mace. especially if you or your relative are sick
  • user
    user 26 September 2013 10: 11 New
    +9
    He Su..ka corrupt, in order to make such statements it is necessary that the state fully fulfills the duties entrusted to it under the CONSTITUTION.
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 26 September 2013 12: 58 New
      +1
      I talked today with an assistant professor, a specialist in financial law, there is no confirmation of this news. No panic, comrades.
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 02 New
        +1
        The topic has appeared, then they are probing the soil.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 10: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: Romn
    I can tell an example of the place where I live - Ufa, Bashkiria. The number of vacancies at least 2 times

    But what about the countryside, the official one works 10 percent, for the rest there is simply no work
  • Armata
    Armata 26 September 2013 10: 56 New
    +9
    Quote: Romn
    I don’t know about you, but I think this proposal is right. I can tell an example of the place where I live - Ufa, Bashkiria. The number of vacancies is at least 2 times higher than the number of unemployed, only apparently most of these people have noble blood and cannot afford to work in low-cost and not very paid jobs. Do not take it for rudeness, most people are either very smart and don’t pay a gram of taxes, or don’t want to hit finger and finger, but they can scream how bad the state and government are and why they live so poorly. Need to force!
    As for the initiative, but this person also did not fall from the sky to this position.
    My wife is a housewife. Just sitting at home and taking care of the family. And that it is not necessary to treat her? She is also unemployed. Yes, then I wanted to spit on the state. If this law is passed, I swear I will forget to work for the defense industry and either leave or go into commerce. Freaks getting bigger. But they don’t save this money for us. Then it will be dismantled again (as with a stool), and the guilty will not be found later.
    1. svp67
      svp67 26 September 2013 11: 02 New
      +9
      Quote: Mechanic
      My wife is a housewife.
      Good afternoon. Zhenya - one piece of advice, do not get into the discussion of this topic, since here normal expressions are only MATERIAL .... but they are not supposed to be by the rules ...
      I would do only one thing, forced officials to live according to the rules and laws that they adopt for ordinary citizens and on the assumption that their salary will be 1 minimum wage ... Let them show by example how their ideas contribute to "a long and happy life ... "
      1. Armata
        Armata 26 September 2013 11: 16 New
        +6
        Quote: svp67
        Good afternoon. Zhenya - one piece of advice, do not get into the discussion of this topic, since here normal expressions are only MATERIAL .... but they are not supposed to be by the rules ...
        I would do only one thing, forced officials to live according to the rules and laws that they adopt for ordinary citizens and on the assumption that their salary will be 1 minimum wage ... Let them show by example how their ideas contribute to "a long and happy life ... "
        Hello, Sergey. But you're right on all 100%. good There is only one thing, they will not live like that. I saw how deputies look now? I recently found out that one of the series Univer (a long-legged mare, an eternal trial .... Maria Kozhevnikova) is a deputy and even sits somewhere in the wards. The country is going crazy. request fool
        1. svp67
          svp67 26 September 2013 11: 32 New
          +4
          Quote: Mechanic
          I recently found out that one of the series Univer (a long-legged mare, an eternal trial .... Maria Kozhevnikova) is a deputy and even sits somewhere in the wards. The country is going crazy
          And I can bet that she went there according to the lists of either the United Russia Party or the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia ... I wish I knew WHO included her in that list ...
          1. svp67
            svp67 26 September 2013 11: 39 New
            +5
            But interesting ...
            Since 2009, Maria Kozhevnikova begins to actively engage in social and charitable activities. She is currently the guardian of the orphanage in Moscow and is a member of the Young Guardi political council under the United Russia party.

            In fact, Maria Kozhevnikova became a deputy of the State Duma during the national primaries. She was supported by a huge number of young people who saw her as a leader and a person who could change their lives for the better. Voting was open and fair. Therefore, to speak about the dark side of Masha’s deputy, this is at least not ethical. Perseverance, determination, openness to communication, the desire to help people - all this has become the fundamental basis for the success of the girl. She should learn from this and adopt some techniques.

            Respond - WHO accepted or at least KNEW about this vote ...
            Or after this photo there are no questions ...
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 11: 48 New
              +5
              Quote: svp67
              Since 2009, Maria Kozhevnikova begins to actively engage in social and charitable activities. She is currently the guardian of the orphanage in Moscow

              And that she there is a charity for children, her videos from a home video. In Italy, Chechelin, and we have Kozhevnikov. The face of the country is damn.
            2. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 26 September 2013 17: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: svp67
              Or after this photo there are no questions ...

              In the photo, not Kozhevnikov, but Maksakova (singer), but both walked on the EP lists.

              Kozhevnikova here:
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 11: 49 New
            +3
            Quote: svp67
            . I wish I still knew WHO included her in that list ...

            The one who slept with her turned on her!
            1. svp67
              svp67 26 September 2013 11: 51 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              The one who slept with her turned on her!

              No COMMENTS, but "+"
            2. IRBIS
              IRBIS 26 September 2013 12: 58 New
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              The one who slept with her turned on her!

              Sanya, you’ll fall asleep with such hell ... There is no end to work there ...
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 13: 40 New
                +1
                Quote: IRBIS
                Sanya, you’ll fall asleep with such hell ... There is no end to work there ...

                That's for sure. All her talents are on the face.
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 26 September 2013 13: 49 New
                +2
                Quote: IRBIS

                Sanya, you’ll fall asleep with such hell ... There is no end to work there ...

                Sasha, I don’t know, did not meet hi with such. I don’t have enough money for her, and there is no desire.
                Hi
                1. IRBIS
                  IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 57 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Hi

                  Hi! hi
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  I don’t have enough money for her

                  For this, the Russians came up with love so that without money ... love
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes and no desire.

                  But this is already bad crying - desire should always be! laughing
                2. Very old
                  Very old 26 September 2013 14: 52 New
                  0
                  I can borrow a desire (for a while), although Very Old
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 26 September 2013 15: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Romn
    The number of vacancies is at least 2 times the number of unemployed, only apparently most of these people have noble blood and cannot afford to work in low-cost and not very paid jobs.

    Take an interest in the concept of "equilibrium price" in relation to the labor market.
    Then estimate the real cost of living, from which salaries should dance.
    Compare the resulting figure with the existing salary offers and the proposed working conditions.
  • fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 26 September 2013 16: 35 New
    +7
    Social advertisement
    We have already deceived you more than once. You defended us in the fall of 91, we shot at you in the fall of 93. We ruined your country in 90, robbed it in 92, fooled it with two Volgas in 93, with the help of MMMs spread it to grandmothers in 94, sent your children to the slaughterhouse in 95, did a good job of repeating "in 96th, and completely oiled in 98th.
    But y we ran out of money again.
    PLEASE PAY TAXES.
  • Joker
    Joker 26 September 2013 20: 15 New
    +1
    I do not know about you, but I think this sentence is correct. I can say an example of the place where I live - Ufa, Bashkiria. The number of vacancies at least 2 times the number of unemployed, but that's probably the majority of these people blood noble and can not afford to work in low-income and not studded positions.

    And this is forgiven is not your business, they are sitting at home and they don’t get paid in the US, they want to let them sit as long as they like until they find what they like, besides this free medical help and not a loss at all, for example, I’ve been 10 to private traders I go for everything, but you have to pay, for the quality in 10 is higher than in free and it is free only in the name.
  • 311ove
    311ove 27 September 2013 12: 03 New
    0
    Clearly not from the sky, but let me find out where this "workaholic" used to "plow" ?? Not in the face for an hour ... or at the open-hearth?
  • Realist58
    Realist58 27 September 2013 23: 10 New
    0
    Plusan. For I believe that a working person should receive higher quality medical services.
    The problem is different ... someone believes that the Mr. Minister of the thieves' oligarchy started a decrease in the volume and quality of medical care for non-working (not paying), for the sake of increasing the quality and volume of working (paying) ??? I doubt it.
    And now about SOCIAL JUSTICE ... why am I, a working person who monitors his health, almost never drinks, receive medical assistance in the same amount as a drug addict and a parasite? What is social justice here ??
    Moreover, the quality of this free aid in volumes of enema and paracetamol is mildly inadequate.

    In short ... medicine is not just a service, it is an INSTITUTE for ensuring the security of the STATE - the health of its citizens.
    How to make this institution highly effective ?!

    1. Divide medical services into two types - PREVENTIVE and MEDICAL.
    Preventive medicine deals with the detection and prevention of diseases and gets paid for it. The local doctor controls 300 people and receives money for them. Low incidence at the site - PREMIUM. High - PENALTIES.
    With such a system, a situation, for example, when doctors unnecessarily prescribe horse antibiotics for the sake of a small percentage of pharmacies, will be ruled out.

    CURRICULUM engages in clear treatment, and receives money for it. And the more qualified the treatment, the more money a specific doctor.

    How to control it !? Through a citizen’s savings account in the FMS (replenished both from income and optionally on a voluntary basis) with state co-financing.
    Moreover, co-financing should be variable upwards, depending on whether a citizen undergoes a medical examination, leads a healthy life, whether he has children, etc.
    Under this system, when a citizen sees how much he pays for medical services, the situation when a patient in a medical institution buys EVERYTHING at his own expense, and in a report to the FMS he was given everything for free, it cannot happen. Because he sees WHAT HE PAYS FOR.


    Threat. Well, this is so briefly, if anyone will be interested, I will write in more detail.
  • vadimus
    vadimus 26 September 2013 08: 14 New
    +4
    You might think that if they help, then for free ...
  • Airman
    Airman 26 September 2013 08: 50 New
    15
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Well, he’ll certainly not be treated in Russia, in any case.

    Let them first create jobs and expel migrant workers, and then blather. When he is removed from the minister, will he go to the janitors? Or a simple engineer to the factory.
  • vladimirZ
    vladimirZ 26 September 2013 09: 23 New
    10
    To drive such an initiator of the minister, who stands for the elimination of social guarantees - free health care for Russian citizens, from his workplace for unsuitability.
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 26 September 2013 09: 47 New
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Well, he’ll certainly not be treated in Russia, in any case.


    at stake to plant such social defenders. Let him then be treated in Switzerland.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 11: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Geisenberg
      at stake to plant such social defenders. Let him then be treated in Switzerland.

      Judging by the gameparades, Switzerland has the best proctologists.
  • starshina78
    starshina78 26 September 2013 20: 37 New
    +6
    Recently, in Russia more and more the state "cares" about us. the ambulance reform was carried out. Now she will think to go to you or send you to the local doctor (to the question: "And if it is at two in the morning?", The answer: "Try to live until the morning!"). The list of medicines in the ambulance cases has been changed, and portable refrigerators in which vital medicines are stored have ceased to be purchased at all. Now let's not heal the unemployed. And then what? And then it turns out that: "Citizens! Let's get treatment for money! And then something a lot of money for you accursed goes!". Fiction? Maybe, maybe not. Doctors raise their salaries, raise them, but they take less or do not take them at all, you go to the hospital, have money: a hundred dollars for a nurse for injections (otherwise, you either won't do it, or will do so that you climb the wall), thousandths for the doctor (yes, just so!, otherwise they will forget about you), operations for a certain fee (for an anesthesiologist, an operating nurse, but God himself told the surgeon! and the sums are not small), a place in the ward, and not in the corridor, also costs money, and so on. The more money is pumped into medicine, the more they take! and let me be persuaded if I'm wrong! I wrote about our city hospital.
  • alone
    alone 26 September 2013 20: 53 New
    +3
    a very "rational" and "logical" decision. not working is deprived of free medical care. that means he will have to pay to get medical care. One can only guess -
    what will he pay if it does not work? belay

    Why does the subject's budget transfer money to the compulsory health insurance fund for non-working people without assessing the situation? Among the "non-working" there are those who work, have income, but do not pay taxes and do not make contributions to social funds. Then why should they receive medical assistance at the expense of those who also work, but at the same time make obligatory payments?


    But can it deprive the medical staff of the tax inspectorate in order to do their job better?
  • fight
    fight 26 September 2013 07: 27 New
    -3
    How many unemployed people drive jeeps? Yes dofiga. I've been paying taxes and considerable. Why should I keep such unemployed?
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 32 New
      0
      And just parasites and marginalized very much.
      Here, either an article for parasitism is introduced, or deprived of insurance.
      I AM FOR!
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 07: 58 New
        -3
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        And just parasites and marginalized very much.
        Here, either an article for parasitism is introduced, or deprived of insurance.
        I AM FOR!

        Or maybe just pay tax (not working) and an article for parasitism is not necessary.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 59 New
          +7
          What is the unemployment tax? laughing I understand what I wrote?
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 08: 34 New
            -3
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            What is the unemployment tax? I realized what I wrote?

            Of course, the minimum, unemployed receives benefits, and pay from it, But what is the problem actually?
            1. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 58 New
              -2
              laughing ahaha! after that, I just doubt your adequacy laughing
              Well, and what is the economic effect for the state in such taxes?
              And why is the allowance paid? For work hours earned by the recipient or from the budget?
              Those. The state pays for itself laughing
              Elegant!
              You just invented the perpetual motion machine!
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 September 2013 16: 50 New
                0
                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                ahaha! after that, I just doubt your adequacy

                And absolutely in vain, I describe to you the health care system in Israel (as well as taxes) which notice it works fine.

                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                Well, and what is the economic effect for the state in such taxes?

                A sign of equality and nothing more. If you are not disabled, a senior citizen or a child, pay a tax. Tax 2,5% of salary (allowance) nor crazy money. but the one who earns a lot pays more, and little - less, while the range of services is absolutely the same for both. And about such an exotic thing as a quota, we have no idea.

                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                And why is the allowance paid? For work hours earned by the recipient or from the budget?

                Unemployment benefits are granted to a person who has worked for 9 months (without a break) or 180 days (workers) for a year (intermittently. As a rule, the allowance is 75% of the last earnings and lasts a maximum of 6 months. Moreover, if the allowance was sent continue to pay until the end of the course. After being on the grant, you can receive the next allowance no earlier than 3 years (provided that you have used all 130 days). The allowance is set for 130 working days (in my opinion, because I don’t know exactly I’ve never been), if I found a job earlier, then the remaining days go to the bank of days and if you are suddenly fired, you can re-apply to the exchange and continue to receive even if 3 years have not passed

                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                Those. The state pays for itself

                What is it like ? In general, we have insurance medicine and most medical hospitals, like many hospitals, are private. For treatment, the state transfers money to hospitals and clinics.
                Now do not mix medical care and unemployment benefits (or a living wage) - these are completely different ministries and taxes.
            2. Geisenberg
              Geisenberg 26 September 2013 11: 38 New
              +7
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              What is the unemployment tax? I realized what I wrote?

              Of course, the minimum, unemployed receives benefits, and pay from it, But what is the problem actually?


              the fact is that on our stock exchange it’s the way it is that registering unemployed is more difficult than working in a specialty. and you can work only for bread and water.
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 September 2013 16: 51 New
                +3
                Quote: Geisenberg
                the fact is that on our stock exchange it’s the way it is that registering unemployed is more difficult than working in a specialty. and you can work only for bread and water

                so then the problem is probably not tax. and a specific mess. We get on the stock exchange and register takes a maximum of 20 minutes
              2. VADIMKRSK
                VADIMKRSK 26 September 2013 23: 44 New
                +1
                There are a lot of offers on the exchange of 10000 per month. Recently I worked for a salary certificate.
            3. consul
              consul 26 September 2013 11: 59 New
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              unemployed receives benefits


              The amount of benefits in your country and we have two very big differences, plus you have to appear every month in the district center (renting cars, because buses do not go there-1000 rubles) in the employment center. Only budget employees work in our village, the collective farm in the early 90s was devastated completely. In your country, everything is done in the interests of the population (normal national policy), we have everything, just not ours. Here they want to reach gasoline up to 50 rubles, such as the level of the European community, at the same time, income differs significantly, and where dozens.
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 September 2013 16: 52 New
                0
                Quote: consul
                The amount of benefits in your country and we have two very big differences, plus you have to appear every month in the district center (rent a car, because buses do not go there-1000 rubles) in the employment center.

                Once a month, great. We have once a week
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 20: 15 New
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  Once a month, great. We have once a week

                  Once a month it was probably done for the village indulgence. In the city 2 times a week or at the call of the inspector of the employment center. And given the fact that our employers are very fond of showing the salary of workers equal to the minimum wage, the benefit is such that it’s not enough to pay taxes, it’s not enough to pay for a communal apartment.
          2. ia-ai00
            ia-ai00 26 September 2013 20: 57 New
            +2
            Well, from an unemployed person you can ... well, rip off a piece of the "skin" ...
      2. redwolf_13
        redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 01 New
        15
        And the next step will be the introduction of special camps for forced labor ??? Well, they don’t want to work!
        Citizens are not to blame for the fact that the factories of the factories were destroyed and the entire economy was plundered, which was reduced to trading in minerals. But there is no Atu their Atu. I have an uncle turner of the 6th category "wagon". Does he need street revenge? Well, he is not allowed to sit in the office or trade, but there are no factories. Although, as suggested by "Aifonchik", you need to stimulate people to ensure that they are not afraid of "labor migration", although such words are good to say when there is EVERYTHING and you are sitting on a warm sofa. Now minus
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 08: 05 New
          -15
          Quote: redwolf_13
          I have an uncle turner of the 6th category "wagon". Does he need street revenge?

          Of course it is better to sit at home on the priest exactly! What are the streets of revenge ?! Let him sit on unemployment benefits - for a healthy man it’s not so shameful to take a broom and wave it! laughing
          Fu damn it, it’s disgusting to call such men ... sitting and whining that no one needs ..
          1. redwolf_13
            redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 09 New
            12
            And do not call it his work raised 2 children, he has awards. He doesn’t ask for handouts for bread himself. And he wants to work in his specialty. That's all. And what an office hamster produces which pays taxes and calls himself the proud name of music
            1. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 08: 14 New
              -9
              It is one thing to be a pensioner and not work on retirement, it is another thing to be of legal age and to sit on the priest exactly because the broom is swinging dumb.
              Like different things.
              By the way, well, is he not going to work as office plankton? dumb too? or do not take for something else failed? Well, for example, is not friends with numbers?
              1. redwolf_13
                redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 22 New
                14
                And the Minister of Labor would not like to begin with introducing a "list of jobs prohibited for migrants." This list, for example, exists in the Emirates. Put the question point-blank that any person who does not have Russian citizenship must pay for a "medical policy" and an insurance premium of 100 minimum wages. No, he does not want, he wants to spread rot on his citizens. Otherwise, God forbid, "overseas friends" will accuse him of racism and add him to the "Magnitsky list" And our glorious "servant of the people" will not be able to go to the Riviera to rest from the labors of the righteous
                1. Refund_SSSR
                  Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 51 New
                  -6
                  What prevents to work on a par with emigrants? Dumb? OR Is there nowhere to work so that thousands of emigrants came to the city and everyone got a job?
                  You already decide whether there is work in Russia or not.
                  And some talk about the dominance of emigrants, others talk about total unemployment.
                  Nothing that contradicts one another?
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 13: 49 New
                    +5
                    Quote: We refund_SSSR
                    What prevents to work on a par with emigrants? Dumb?

                    The salary. For immigrants, the family lives where the cost of living is 500 rubles. per month, and the rent is almost absent. They send almost all the money there, but here they live on a penny. You will never go to this Z \ P yourself, because even one is not realistic to survive on it.
              2. Geisenberg
                Geisenberg 26 September 2013 11: 40 New
                +6
                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                It is one thing to be a pensioner and not work on retirement, it is another thing to be of legal age and to sit on the priest exactly because the broom is swinging dumb.
                Like different things.
                By the way, well, is he not going to work as office plankton? dumb too? or do not take for something else failed? Well, for example, is not friends with numbers?


                I'm ready to wave a broom for 400 rubles an hour. secure or shut your mouth.
                1. IRBIS
                  IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 04 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Geisenberg
                  I am ready to wave a broom for 400 rubles an hour.

                  Dear, for such grandmas I’m not a broom - I’ll collect it with my hands. Be humble ...
                2. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak 26 September 2013 13: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Geisenberg
                  ready to wave a broom for 400 rubles an hour

                  Where in Russia have you seen this? Here the engineers are not paid so much in places. Janitor and 70 sput, bent, however. wassat
                  1. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 00 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Geisenberg
                    I'm ready to wave a broom for 400 rubles an hour
                    Quote: IRBIS
                    I’m not a broom for such grandmothers - I’ll collect them
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    Where in Russia have you seen this? Here the engineers are not paid so much in places.

                    Interestingly, 400 rubles per hour (or 70 tr per month with an 8-hour working day) is just a little more than 2 minimum wages, which are the norm for social states, where the minimum wage is 50% of GDP for PPP per capita.
                3. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 20: 24 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Geisenberg
                  I'm ready to wave a broom for 400 rubles an hour. secure or shut your mouth.

                  Write the address I already packed the suitcase.
                  But seriously - in my city and 100 rubles per hour is already a very good salary. And in the employment center they offer a maximum of 30.000 per month. and then the watch. And in the city itself a maximum of 15-17 thousand.
                  And what do these 17 thousand mean if renting 1k of an apartment is 6-7 thousand, a communal apartment -4 thousand, and 1,5 thousand per month for travel to the place of work? Yes, I almost forgot from these 17 thousand another 13% of personal income tax should be taken away.
              3. ia-ai00
                ia-ai00 26 September 2013 20: 28 New
                +1
                And at z / p janitor you can support a family?
            2. atalef
              atalef 26 September 2013 08: 16 New
              -3
              Quote: redwolf_13
              . And he wants to work in his specialty. That's all.

              And if there is no work in the specialty, just stupidly no. All the lathes in the district were transferred, and for example, his neighbor appeared (doctor of philological sciences, specialist in the economics of socialism). And now they are both stupidly sitting and waiting. when they fall off work in their specialty. There is no work in their specialty - go work anywhere (or relearn) if you are not disabled. We are talking about people sitting on benefits (i.e., on the neck of taxpayers). You understand that the son of a millionaire who does not work anywhere is not included in these categories (sitting on the neck of taxpayers).

              Quote: redwolf_13
              And what an office hamster produces which pays taxes and calls himself the proud name of music

              Maybe he is a hamster, of course. but unlike the MAN of the 6th category, he sits on the neck of the employer, pays taxes for which this man of the 6th category can sit at home and wait until his lathe falls on his head, on which he can grind something.
              1. redwolf_13
                redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 29 New
                12
                And you can retrain and find another job. But you are looking under your feet, not forward. We do not have normal PLANTS that could produce GOOD products. THEY ARE NOT simple. No factories, no workers SPECIALISTS. The entire economy is tailored for the sale of land RUSSIAN. Even the "UralVogon Zavod" plant, which was sent over, has slipped over the past 5 years (50% of defective defense equipment and 60% of civilian products). We kill the concept of a WORKING person.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 26 September 2013 09: 08 New
                  +1
                  Quote: redwolf_13
                  And you can retrain and you can find another job.

                  Here I am about that

                  Quote: redwolf_13
                  We do not have normal FACTORIES that could produce GOOD products

                  Your words - Normal and Good - are very relative. because sometimes normal for some - not at all normal for others) as with vacation for example) yes, I digress. A person should work and not sit on the neck of taxpayers, where, how, in what quality, in which city is his personal choice, the role of the state is to give an opportunity, to unlearn, and then choose yourself, or move, there are many ways. No port flows under a rock
                  .
                  Quote: redwolf_13
                  . The entire economy is imprisoned for the sale of land RUSSIAN.

                  Well, it’s probably more correct than the Russian one, besides they don’t sell land, minerals - yes

                  Quote: redwolf_13
                  Even the plant "UralVogon Zavod", which was sent over, has slipped over the past 5 years (50% of defective defense equipment and 60% of civilian products). We kill the concept of a WORKING person.

                  100% of the state’s fault, which did not provide conditions for either training or control (the factory is state-owned) and did not create mechanisms for either growing a shift of skilled workers or a measure of responsibility for marriage.
              2. Very old
                Very old 26 September 2013 14: 49 New
                0
                Here go and work "for that guy"
        2. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 26 September 2013 13: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: redwolf_13
          I have an uncle turner of the 6th category "station wagon"

          Weird! Good turner is needed everywhere. I know this from my own skin. It is only a matter of wages. There are no other problems.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 03 New
            +2
            Quote: Hedgehog
            It is only a matter of wages. There are no other problems.

            There is - the location of the enterprise: spending 3 hours on a 1-way trip is an unattractive prospect.
        3. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 26 September 2013 17: 43 New
          +5
          Quote: redwolf_13
          Although as suggested by "Aifonchik" people need to be stimulated

          So they stimulate ... laughing

          1. Very old
            Very old 26 September 2013 21: 22 New
            0
            NONSENSE. Something needs to be introduced to someone. Is there a tax on idiocy
      3. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 26 September 2013 11: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        And just parasites and marginalized very much.
        Here, either an article for parasitism is introduced, or deprived of insurance.
        I AM FOR!


        Asam is probably a senior citizen, moreover working. I think you should be the first to lose insurance.
        1. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 26 September 2013 13: 29 New
          -1
          Quote: Geisenberg
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          And just parasites and marginalized very much.
          Here, either an article for parasitism is introduced, or deprived of insurance.
          I AM FOR!


          Asam is probably a senior citizen, moreover working. I think you should be the first to lose insurance.


          But I'm interested in such a sweetie? Silently minus type and went into the fog ?? Show your face !

          If you are the same person who is sitting on a pension from the state, and even taking the place of someone who can’t sit here, and you are not discussing whom to deprive of social protection, can you after that? After all, your social. security is already guaranteed, and by the sum of past merits, you are not in danger! So, what do you think I should work hard like a horse and you also provide a pension? and in case of what, in your opinion, to sit without social programs ??
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 26 September 2013 11: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: luta
      How many unemployed people drive jeeps? Yes dofiga. I've been paying taxes and considerable. Why should I keep such unemployed?

      so catch those unemployed who ride jeeps, and their lichen. and leave people alone who cannot find work.
  • family tree
    family tree 26 September 2013 07: 32 New
    10
    Maxim Topilin makes a proposal according to which non-working persons will not be able to receive free medical care.

    Like, now someone gets it belay ? Is that Topilin himself and other "upper" people. Not?
    In general, it seems he doesn’t work to hell, since he does not own the situation.
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 35 New
      -10
      I don’t know about you, but I, my wife and my child receive free medical assistance in the city polyclinics.
      We ask for paid help when it is necessary to do it urgently and there is no time to stand in the general queue.
      So minus from me hi
      PS Moreover, I also have corporate medical insurance around the clock. Corporate insurance for medical examination and so on and so forth, which I don’t use practically because there is enough state security (except for teeth, because it’s very early to come for dental treatment for coupons for social insurance).
      1. Syrzhn
        Syrzhn 26 September 2013 07: 55 New
        +5
        What naivety! Free only cheese in a mousetrap. A certain percentage of medical insurance is deducted from your salary every month, and I hope and wish you medical services that you do not use every month.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 57 New
          -6
          I have an ulcer ... Do you think I often visit doctors?
          (By the way, more than 13% of my RFP is not expelled anywhere.)
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 08: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            I have an ulcer ... Do you think I often visit doctors?

            In theory --- no. We have this treated with tablets in 2 weeks. laughing

            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            (By the way, more than 13% of my RFP is not expelled anywhere.)

            It's strange if you cry. I pay 37% income, 2,5% on health care and 2,5% on the national service. insurance - and I don’t pay anything, and the unemployed pay a minimum tax (120s in my opinion) and do not die.
            1. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 09: 41 New
              0
              Hmm .. Clinical case ...
            2. Very old
              Very old 26 September 2013 14: 46 New
              +3
              The states are different. The conditions are different. The approaches are different. Comparisons are incorrect
            3. Doctorleg
              Doctorleg 26 September 2013 15: 30 New
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              I have an ulcer ... Do you think I often visit doctors?

              In theory --- no. We have this treated with tablets in 2 weeks. laughing

              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              (By the way, more than 13% of my RFP is not expelled anywhere.)

              It's strange if you cry. I pay 37% income, 2,5% on health care and 2,5% on the national service. insurance - and I don’t pay anything, and the unemployed pay a minimum tax (120s in my opinion) and do not die.

              It’s just that we have made a contribution to honey insurance so that people don’t see it — it is paid by the employer (as well as other deductions, except for income) and we do not see this amount in our receipts. Guess how the employer pays this money? But we have a feeling that we have medicine for free. Here is a state. excuse
      2. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 56 New
        0
        Why minus that? Am I to blame for the fact that I get medical care for free? laughing Funny people .. By the way, it’s very revealing what all the brave warriors are here, but how drop by drop it turns out to be unemployed! wassat
        1. Romn
          Romn 26 September 2013 08: 03 New
          -2
          Why minus that? Am I to blame for the fact that I get medical care for free? laughing Funny people .. By the way, it’s very revealing what all the brave warriors are here, but how drop by drop it turns out to be unemployed!


          Well said!)))
        2. IRBIS
          IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Why minus that?

          Two looked at one window, -
          One saw rain and mud.
          The other is foliage of green ligature,
          Spring and the sky is blue.
          Two looked at one window ...
          (Omar Khayyam)
          Do not judge everyone in a row. Personally, my opinion is in tune with yours.
      3. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 08: 07 New
        11
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        I don’t know about you, but I, my wife and my child receive free medical assistance in the city polyclinics.
        We ask for paid help when it is necessary to do it urgently and there is no time to stand in the general queue.

        I don’t know, maybe in your particular case and your city everything is wonderful - and thank God, but I won’t be overwhelmed if I say that medicine in the Russian Federation is bad and far from free. Just now I ran into this, my friend (his 2,5-year-old son) fled, hit his head, rupture of the vessel and half paralyzed. He was treated in the district in the regional, from which they only treated (and the sea paid money), but they did not make a diagnosis, the boy began to walk, but inhibited. In short, I took him here, of course it was not cheap, but they put a diagnosis (the blow turns out to only provoke the disease that was - but they could not find it), prescribed treatment - and now everything is fine. Running here (with a friend) at the doctors, I saw those hundreds (and probably thousands at all hospitals) of Russians coming to us for treatment. Spending thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of euros to recover. And now it’s just a question, but, what in Russia even with this money can’t be cured? Ilmi, these thousands go stupidly to spend money in Israel instead of what would be treated with high quality and free in Russia?
        As you answer this simple question, then I will believe in yours - I do not want to call them fairy tales.
        1. Romn
          Romn 26 September 2013 08: 32 New
          0
          This is another question, the question of the need to invest more in medicine, buy better equipment, train more qualified personnel and pay them large salaries. And forcing all people to pay taxes or just paying, this will gradually improve!
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 26 September 2013 13: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Romn
            to buy better equipment, train more qualified personnel and pay them large salaries

            I forgot to mention the criminal liability for medical errors. and then the doctors are now working like a drunk plumber-tyap-blunder and you're done, come next.
        2. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 36 New
          -2
          And here is the quality of medicine? negative what are we talking about?
          I don’t need to talk about the thousands who go to Israel for medicine, otherwise I will have to talk about hundreds of thousands who go for medicine to Russia from the former Soviet republics ...
          Now we are talking about the suspension of health insurance for the unemployed.
          And no one is now saying how many people lose the right to free medical care - right after leaving or a year later! And these are completely different things! You can find a job for yourself in a year.
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 11: 04 New
            0
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            And here is the quality of medicine? what are we talking about?

            What does it have to do with it?

            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            I don’t need to talk about the thousands who go to Israel for medicine, otherwise I will have to talk about hundreds of thousands who go for medicine to Russia from the former Soviet republics ..

            This suggests that everything is bad. there is always something worse.
            I think . Our medical care is worthy of respect. but it seems to me (I don’t know for sure) What should be better in Switzerland.

            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Now we are talking about the suspension of health insurance for the unemployed

            For not paying taxes. By the way, if a person is officially on the stock exchange. In addition to everything, you want to deprive him of medical services.
            ?


            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            You can find a job for yourself in a year.

            Damn, here you are caught up in this work. Well, I do not want to work. but I can pay tax. What is the problem ? Or am I obliged to plow?
        3. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 26 September 2013 15: 54 New
          +3
          Differently. Some trust foreign doctors more. And this has its own reason - honey. education is rather weak, often formal education. Of course, it all depends on the person and I see good guys after graduation (I work at the Cardiology Center myself, including teaching young doctors), but many do not know simple things. And continuing education every 5 years is often pro-forma. But there is another reason - if medicine is poorly financed, then there is such a problem that even with big money the patient cannot be adequately helped - there simply is no such experience. I am a cardiologist and I know examples from this area. Until the state began to finance the production of an expensive three-chamber stimulator, they put them badly on us - the experience was small - too few people could afford to pay for it. The same thing with ischemic strokes (by the way, this is the skate of the Minister of Health) - we rarely have thrombolysis. But I know firsthand the negative examples from Germany and Israel - and they do unnecessary operations (just cut the dough) and lure the patient at a low price, who clearly needs to do another operation and with a different provision. This distinguished Israel - the Germans billed 300 thousand euros, and Israel - 80 thousand dollars. When I began to speak with them, the Germans explained everything intelligently and correctly - that this is max. the price, taking into account the severity of the patient (we could not help, the patient was from Kazakhstan, and they don’t have a transplant, and we don’t have another, unlike Germany), and the Israelis said that they’d let him come and see, and then we’ll decide. But she had to fly. aviation. Here's a great picture - you arrive, and they tell you - sorry - it will cost 300. So what? She didn’t have such money, but the way was paid, the torment was expensive.
          Somehow
      4. Jarilo
        Jarilo 26 September 2013 09: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Moreover, I also have corporate medical insurance around the clock. Corporate insurance for medical examination and so on and so forth, which I practically do not use because there is enough state security

        Sorry for the immodest question. And who do you work with and where?
        That is, you are absolutely sure that they will not cut you, the company will not go bankrupt, and in which case, you will almost instantly find a job that allows you to support your family? (Or will revenge be a broom in your area?) From your post it turns out that you are guaranteed against unemployment.
        Believe me, in Russia there are a huge number of people deprived of such happiness. Not everyone works in Gazprom, Rosneft, etc., not all are government employees, there are other people.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 28 New
          +3
          No matter who I work.
          And I am not protected from unemployment just like everyone else. But it’s one thing to look for a job for half a year - a year, it’s another thing to sit on unemployment benefits for years, because dumb work with your hands, but there is no work in the specialty.
          If they cut me down, I again I’m going to work for three jobs at the same time, but I believe that my duty to my family is to provide for my family, and not to whine and hope for the manna from heaven.
          I despise parasites and whiners and this is why it is so categorical, since I see no justification for the fact that unemployment benefits are better than working in several areas as a janitor and evening shift as a loader.
          Yes, even with the same marshtruchik or repairman for apartments.
          1. IRBIS
            IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            If they cut me down, I will go back to work for three jobs at the same time, but I believe that my duty to my family is to provide for my family, and not to whine and hope for the manna from heaven.
            I despise parasites and whiners and that's why it is so categorical

            Lord! Read the words of a real man who has a purpose in life! Which has priorities in life.
            Many with nostalgia recall the times of the USSR, and in those days parasitism was punishable, there was even an article. Or is crying about the grace of years past one thing, but really looking around is another?
  • Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 26 September 2013 07: 34 New
    10
    It would be better to look at migrants, they are going to give birth to Russia and do operations.
    1. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 26 September 2013 08: 44 New
      +8
      migrants give birth to us so that children receive citizenship, I try to do it in Moskabad, in 10-15 years, with our liberal policy of the authorities, the president will be some kind of rovshan or dshumshut
  • treskoed
    treskoed 26 September 2013 07: 35 New
    16
    I offer the Minister of Labor and Social Security Topilin to receive FREE medical care for life in one of the district polyclinics, on a general basis and in the order of priority, by prohibiting treatment in privileged medical institutions !!!
  • koksalek
    koksalek 26 September 2013 07: 36 New
    10
    He is so sure in advance that he will reduce unemployment as if it had already been a stage. Cheap PR for scraping some pennies to plug holes in a stolen budget
  • atalef
    atalef 26 September 2013 07: 40 New
    +1
    In general, this is nonsense. I don’t have to work, I don’t want to, for example, or maybe I have some small savings (I repeat small ones - not millions) that give me the opportunity to live modestly and not work. By the way, honey service is so far guaranteed by the constitution - does the minister remember that?
    So that these crazy ideas do not arise, it is enough to do one simple thing (at least it is with us, and medicine in general is far from bad and practically free), but everyone pays health tax 2,5% of the salary, not working (the same is some minimum - just a penny), but people with disabilities pay, children and pensioners do not pay. And that's it, and nobody cares whether you work or not, drive to work or not.
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 07: 46 New
      -2
      Quote: atalef
      I do not have to work, I do not want for example

      laughing No comments laughing
      1. atalef
        atalef 26 September 2013 07: 54 New
        +9
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        No comments

        And to whom am I obliged (except myself)?
        I don’t want - I don’t work - my exclusive business. Maybe I plowed in the North, saved up some amount, pariah, I think for a year I’ll rest from the works of the righteous, but here herak, you don’t have medical service
        . nothing to rest --- work, go. laughing
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 08: 09 New
          -6
          Why am I obligated to pay taxes? I don’t want and I won’t.
          Why is someone obligated to treat you for free? does not want and will not.
          More actively put cons, unemployed forum generals laughing

          Democracy - this does not mean that everyone that wants something does or does not do, but wants everything.
          If you live in general, you are obliged to live by the laws of society and to contribute to the development of society.
          If you do not live in society, then you also have the right to this desire (to live not in society), but then the public domain is not for you.
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 08: 43 New
            0
            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Why am I obligated to pay taxes? I don’t want and I won’t.

            Do not pay and not be treated, live in a garbage dump - what is the problem?

            Quote: We refund_SSSR
            Why is someone obligated to treat you for free? does not want and will not.

            To treat or not to treat this decision should not refer to the doctor, the doctor should treat in any case. But it is up to the state to decide who is free and who is paid, and how to rip off money from it.
            The doctor receives a salary for work and should absolutely not concern him whether you pay taxes or not. His job is to heal. In any case, this is the case with us.
            1. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 24 New
              0
              Someone argued that the doctor should not treat? fool Where did I write this?
              I just wrote to you just above that you have the right to medical care in any case, only free medical care is only available to working people.
              Now we are talking about providing social insurance to the unemployed, actually.
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 September 2013 10: 43 New
                +2
                Quote: We refund_SSSR
                I just wrote to you just above that you have the right to medical care in any case, only free medical care is only available to working people.
                Now we are talking about providing social insurance to the unemployed, actually.

                Paying taxes. I do not understand what kind of desire to drive a person into plowing. If I have an inheritance. I don’t sit on the neck of taxpayers, nor do I demand benefits. I just stupidly want to do nothing, erase the series and lie on the sofa stroking the Persian cat. Well, I do not want to work. At the same time, my neighbor is plowing and plating 4,5 rubles of taxes. So give me the opportunity to pay 9 rubles (twice as much, a janitor's neighbor) and get medical care. Or waving a broom next to him and paying 4,5 rubles, will I make all of humanity happy?
                1. Refund_SSSR
                  Refund_SSSR 26 September 2013 10: 46 New
                  -1
                  Well, and spend your inheritance and medical care, what's the problem?
        2. IRBIS
          IRBIS 26 September 2013 13: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          And to whom am I obliged (except myself)?

          Sorry, where do you live? On a personal island or in a state that needs to maintain its institutions and service social obligations? Or do the elderly do not need pensions, and the army does not need new equipment?
          You will excuse me, but in drones the bees are simply expelled from the hive with all the ensuing consequences. They don’t know how to make mead ...
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 September 2013 17: 06 New
            0
            Quote: IRBIS
            Sorry, where do you live? On a personal island or in a state that needs to maintain its institutions and service social obligations?

            And you probably did not understand. I agree to pay tax without working. One comrade wants me (According to his nickname) to drive me back to the USSR and make me work, even for 3 kopecks. . I do not want. There is money, I pay taxes, and the entry in the work book, like the rise at 6 in the morning, is not required.


            Quote: IRBIS
            You will excuse me, but in drones the bees are simply expelled from the hive with all the ensuing consequences. They don’t know how to make mead.

            But they fuck the bee 9 the same way is not an easy task), but I was distracted. You did not understand . I’m ready to pay taxes _ money roll (as an example), they are trying to determine the availability of medical services for me by work.
  • Lk17619
    Lk17619 26 September 2013 07: 41 New
    10
    N-yes .... free medicine ....... It may be free of charge in his departmental clinic, but not like ordinary Russians. Mu .... ak this minister.
  • vitek1233
    vitek1233 26 September 2013 07: 41 New
    +8
    That now officially it is possible not to provide assistance, there is no work, and there is no right to life either?
    1. redwolf_13
      redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 06 New
      +6
      Well, yes, and the collection of the constitution would have to be released on toilet paper. There will be an application for it. And then all sorts of ministers extras remember about her when only they are touched and, as a common man, forgetfulness comes. And so you look to sit this body on a "white friend" no, but he will read something new that he learns for himself.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: redwolf_13
        Well, yes, it’s time to publish a compilation of the constitution on toilet paper.
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: vitek1233
      That now officially it is possible not to provide assistance, there is no work, and there is no right to life either?

      February 13th article:
  • Denis
    Denis 26 September 2013 07: 55 New
    10
    And how can this well-fed minister comment on such a situevina?
    In a village ruined by the same Democrats, an entrepreneur set up a sawmill, a workshop, etc., recruits people but does not formally formalize it. A NO OTHER WORK IN THE DISTRICT.
  • Canep
    Canep 26 September 2013 08: 09 New
    13
    Young and handsome, he probably doesn’t need medical services, but a person of pre-retirement age who works by oral agreement with some kind of entrepreneur in a rough job needs it. And this (not for swearing) bad person offers these people a choice: either to sit on the stock exchange without work, or not to go to the hospital, and not to call an ambulance.
  • zinander
    zinander 26 September 2013 08: 14 New
    +3
    They try to save money in the wrong place .. and really a bad person ..
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. redwolf_13
      redwolf_13 26 September 2013 08: 32 New
      +1
      Where? City places? So for example
  • slacker
    slacker 26 September 2013 08: 34 New
    +1
    Who does not work - he is treated! But at whose expense? That is the question!
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: Loafer
      Who does not work - he is treated! But at whose expense? That is the question!

      A slacker, if you ask the question "at whose expense", you will have to ask yourself the following question: imagine - a person lives, works, pays taxes that go to the salaries of teachers, military personnel, doctors, employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and other similar structures, officials.

      But why on earth does he pay if, for example, he has no children, there was no war, and therefore the servicemen did not work out their money, this person does not go to doctors, does not use the "services" of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, officials do more harm than help - with why on earth should a person pay taxes?



      I see that many of the comrades who like to scream on the site about the unity of the people and the nation forget about this unity as soon as they are hinted that they overpaid a penny for a neighbor.
      And also liberals with capitalists are hacked.

      Guys (those who are worried about the fact that you pay for the unemployed) are you, plaque fly, liberals themselves, and in the worst sense. You have neoliberal thinking and an approach to this topic like any mattress-bed - with which I congratulate you.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 26 September 2013 08: 47 New
    +9
    but why did you get the idea that our medicine is free, pull out a tooth, pay 300 rubles, and in hospitals anyway, people give doctors care and treatment will be better for the paw, I know that myself, so that we can only wipe the ass off with our policies
    1. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 26 September 2013 16: 12 New
      0
      Quote: soldier's grandson
      but why did you get the idea that our medicine is free, pull out a tooth, pay 300 rubles, and in hospitals anyway, people give doctors care and treatment will be better for the paw, I know that myself, so that we can only wipe the ass off with our policies

      I’m afraid you’ll be upset to learn how much the operation costs in real life, well, for example, stenting of the coronary artery - 70 thousand is worth only a decent stent + other consumables + work. You want the procedure to be done by an experienced doctor, so his salary must be. corresponding- good specialists of this profile are rare and he can go to a commercial clinic + heat, light, nurses, etc. etc. Well, now you can wipe this policy
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 26 September 2013 09: 00 New
    +1
    But what about those who do not work officially? Or with those who have accumulated a small amount of money, working like a damn in hellish conditions and now just resting, because he has the right to earn money ???

    Humanism is whipping. They take initiatives that they will start shooting soon)
    Does he think that unemployment will decrease? maybe, but the gap between the government and the people will also increase, and this is a split. More and more people will look at power as a parasite. More and more will be "hammered" on taxes, codes and ultimately on the law!
  • MrFYGY
    MrFYGY 26 September 2013 09: 23 New
    +8
    Bravo. This is just the height of carelessness, a minister who does not know (will not help to tear off money) the constitution! h. 1 tbsp. 41 of the Russian Constitution for reference. It is necessary to drive such "ministers" not in the neck, but in ...
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 26 September 2013 09: 24 New
    +2
    In my notebook I note, - For Topilin and representatives of his team, DO NOT vote under any circumstances.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Yoon Clob
      In my notebook I note, - For Topilin and representatives of his team, DO NOT vote under any circumstances.
  • Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 26 September 2013 09: 43 New
    +2
    There is a rational grain in this proposal. what
    If the unemployed is registered with the employment service, he has a medical policy for the unemployed and there are no problems. Another thing is that not all settlements have representative offices of SZ, and even those job offers that they issue at the moment are, to put it mildly, "not very" ...
  • shurup
    shurup 26 September 2013 09: 51 New
    +2
    Every citizen, from homeless to Putin, should receive a minimum social package of free medical care. Everything above refers to insurance and paid medicine.
    Let the tax inspectorate be involved in tax evaders, and not the proactive Minister of Labor - he has other duties.
    1. VADIMKRSK
      VADIMKRSK 27 September 2013 00: 28 New
      0
      The Minister of Labor should deal with labor, remuneration, labor relations and not cost savings. As to the article, and the Supreme Court on the issue of minimum wages!
  • gameover65
    gameover65 26 September 2013 10: 07 New
    +7
    instead of forcing employers to register workers, they stupidly shifted all the blame onto an ordinary resident. well done !! I like our government more and more, then pension reforms, then "social" norms for electricity, then education reform, the rise in housing prices, the rise in fuel prices, and now this. a feeling that they just want to get rid of us from this world.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 11: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: gameover65
      Instead of forcing employers to formalize workers, they stupidly transferred all the blame to the average resident.

      Gold words! It's a pity that I can't put more than one "+".
  • Kiliny
    Kiliny 26 September 2013 10: 09 New
    +1
    Another nonsense of the minister. It is no secret that most of the population of Russia receive a "black" salary, enterprises evade taxes. And the workers seem to be satisfied with this, everyone is silent. So, the minister needs to do something, not roll balls in his pants.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 11: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: KilinY
      And it seems that it suits the workers, everyone is silent.

      They are silent not because they are satisfied, but because they are afraid to remain without means of subsistence - you will demand that you officially formalize and pay in a moment you will find yourself on the street and without spoilers.
  • SlavaS
    SlavaS 26 September 2013 10: 25 New
    0
    And where is she free honey. help? all workers deduct 2-3% of the official salary to the medical fund. insurance. And who is unemployed? small children, pensioners? and people of working age, such as those who conjure, for example, they don’t even go to hospitals and they don’t have poles. THOSE. the question arises of who else and what free help can be deprived? Enough to save the budget already - you need to earn more!
  • Hulk
    Hulk 26 September 2013 10: 27 New
    +3
    Quote: redwolf_13
    And the next step will be the introduction of special camps for forced labor ???

    Article 7. The Russian Federation is a social state, ...

    [Constitution] [Chapter 1] [Article 7]
    1. The Russian Federation is a social state whose policy is aimed at creating conditions that ensure a decent life and free development of a person.

    2. Labor and health of the people are protected in the Russian Federation, a guaranteed minimum wage is established, state support for the family, motherhood, fatherhood and childhood, the disabled and senior citizens is provided, a system of social services is being developed, state pensions, benefits and other guarantees of social protection are established.

    Putin: Russia will remain a socially oriented state, despite the failures of the West

    http://slon.ru/fast/russia/putin-rossiya-ostanetsya-sotsialno-orientirovannym-go




    sudarstvom-953762.xhtml

    Putin Russia is a social state. We have a much higher level of social guarantees than countries with a comparable level of labor productivity and per capita income.
    http://www.kp.ru/daily/3759/2807793/

    Typical of Putin-in public says one thing, but things speak of another.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 18: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: Hulk
      Putin Russia is a social state. We have a much higher level of social guarantees than countries with a comparable level of labor productivity and per capita income

      He’s lying.
  • Max otto
    Max otto 26 September 2013 10: 31 New
    -5
    People! Aw! What happened to you? You minus the sound reasoning of normal people! Take a look around!
    atalef, return_SSSR, Romm, they generally write the same thing, only a little differently.
    You can’t give a damn about society, why do I have to pay taxes while working, and someone who has set up a business for a pensioner’s grandfather pays his official salary below the subsistence level and still receives state benefits? Why should they live and enjoy everything at my expense?
    Social equality is the foundation of the state. Mandatory work and mandatory tax payment are two sides of the same coin, without one there is no other. Everyone must pay taxes! You do not pay taxes - you are outside the company, so get everything for cash. What is wrong here ???
    1. Romn
      Romn 26 September 2013 11: 43 New
      -1
      It's nice when they adequately understand what is at stake!
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 13: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: Max Otto
      officially pays itself a salary below the subsistence level and at the same time receives another allowance from the state?

      And if he’s not himself, but he pays me that?
      I have already resigned FOUR TIMES after a scandal with employers about the need to pay salaries "in white".
    3. Canep
      Canep 26 September 2013 14: 50 New
      +3
      Quote: Max Otto
      People! Aw! What happened to you? You minus the sound reasoning of normal people!
      All this must not be fought with the help of medicine. There was a case, I heard on the radio: an accident, they called an ambulance from Moscow, these ambulances drove to the 100 km sign and turned back, 300 meters remained to the accident site, this ambulance was seen by the accident participants and witnesses.
      When you are brought to the hospital with appendicitis, and the doctor will be at the operation site, find out where you work, etc. I think you will change your mind. Although it seems in Russia, and so about the same thing happens. In Kazakhstan, they treat forward, and then they do not even understand it often, almost everything is free.
  • Gato
    Gato 26 September 2013 10: 37 New
    +1
    the term "free medicine" in our country is getting closer to the real oxymoron.

    It seems to me that the term "Ministry of Labor" is even closer to the real oxymoron.
  • Hulk
    Hulk 26 September 2013 10: 44 New
    +5
    Quote: Max Otto
    Everyone must pay taxes! You do not pay taxes - you are outside the company, so get everything for cash. What is wrong here ???

    In a normal economy, the rich pay more than 13%. Due to this, the unemployed live.
    In our economy, about 30% of income comes from natural wealth that belongs to everyone, not just working people.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 26 September 2013 11: 06 New
      +2
      Well, where and what did I write incorrectly? I did not stipulate the amount of tax. And natural wealth in general should be nationalized, if we talk about them.
    2. atalef
      atalef 26 September 2013 11: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Hulk
      In a normal economy, the rich pay more than 13%. Due to this, the unemployed live.
      I generally just 13% bastard. And the general trick. Where else can you see this.
      We have a step tax. the more you earn. the more you pay. Not nice of course. but rightly so I with my 37% income pay (and pay crying ) the state is sometimes 2-3 times more than the wife earns at work.
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 26 September 2013 11: 14 New
    +2
    Once again, the parties do not take up the problem. The choice of measures to solve this problem is simply perverse. It is clear that other decisions are not simple, requiring, firstly, political will from our government and secondly, overcoming the counteraction of corrupt bureaucrats together with the snickering oligarchy.
    In general, the provocative and stout statements are at least rather strange, if not provocative. And predictably provoking protests from the majority of the population, such as Kudrin’s statements about the legalization and increase in the number of migrants in the country. What is it for?
  • varov14
    varov14 26 September 2013 11: 23 New
    0
    It’s a pity that there really is no work in many places, and you don’t want to force it - you go to the shaft for the chain, you work poorly with the whip along the back. It is necessary to accustom to work if mom and dad are not taught and the society blinked. There are 7 billion on earth, and many are clearly an extra burden on the earth.
  • kirgudu
    kirgudu 26 September 2013 11: 24 New
    +2
    Ministry of Labor to reduce and denyuzhki will appear.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 11: 25 New
    0
    this non-smart offer may mean the final and irrevocable destruction of the CX
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 26 September 2013 11: 37 New
    -3
    Vernem_SSSR (3) Respect unambiguous! Plus on all comments +++++++
    From myself I will add:
    First: Topilin came up with an INITIATIVE, which still needs to be considered and finalized.
    Secondly: It was precisely those who ached on this occasion and remembered the constitution who just do not want to work, but wish to sit on the neck of taxpayers, wives, mothers, etc. NOT SHAME? You will sit on the allowance, but who will feed your children?
    Third: Turn on the brain and appreciate the advantages of this opportunity. Ask yourself, how much does the budget receive from unscrupulous employers who issue salaries in envelopes and do not formalize workers officially? As long as you have the opportunity, without formalizing anywhere, to get the same medical care for free, you agree to work under such conditions and thereby help your employers to fill their pockets without sharing with state employees, the same doctors.
    In general, I am once again convinced that MEN as a species disappear. And there is no need to say that there is no work. There is no desire to work. The argument "no work in the specialty" is nothing more than an excuse. A normal man will always find a job if he has complete order with a sense of responsibility and priorities.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 12: 25 New
      +3
      Quote: Icestar777
      Secondly: It was precisely those who ached on this occasion and remembered the constitution who just do not want to work, but wish to sit on the neck of taxpayers, wives, mothers, etc. NOT SHAME?

      respected in rural areas, few receive benefits, but works (officially) even less before you think about the topic from all sides, otherwise you’ll be ashamed of yourself
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 36 New
        -4
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        respected in rural areas, few receive benefits, but works (officially) even less before you think about the topic from all sides, otherwise you’ll be ashamed of yourself

        Dear) but this is not the point. I thought it over and even more, was in the countryside, I wanted to buy a house for old age. So, in that area, imagine there is not even a thought to sit on the allowance, the villagers are slowly farming, plowing the land, ducks are bred and they are being handed over to the nearest cannery and are not complaining. They used to work there and live with it, but the townspeople ate lightly. And they don’t want to work, and they want to eat all the benefits of civilization, and preferably for free. And the freebie is over.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 13: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: Icestar777
          So, in that area, imagine there is not even a thought to sit on the manual

          You were there and I live here, but farmers, only how many of them are officially ?!
          Quote: Icestar777
          ducks are bred and handed over to the nearest cannery and do not complain

          but we don’t have a cannery, and they buy milk for 7 rubles each; in principle, it’s difficult to donate meat; it’s difficult to buy shit in Poland more profitable than local
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 15 New
            0
            And here we come to the problem of agriculture, which, no doubt, needs to be raised. Everything is interconnected.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 13: 41 New
              +2
              Quote: Icestar777
              And here we come to the problem of agriculture, which, no doubt, needs to be raised. Everything is interconnected

              by such laws it can be finally destroyed, how do you think someone will remain in the village after such a thing ?!
              1. Icestar777
                Icestar777 26 September 2013 14: 09 New
                0
                So I’m talking about this and say that everything is interconnected! With a reasonable approach, in order to implement something, it is necessary to solve problems that may worsen after implementation. No need to look for an enemy of the people in me, you will not find him there.
      2. Max otto
        Max otto 26 September 2013 12: 45 New
        +2
        In the countryside there landthat can give everything you need. There is a social minimum for taxes, in Russia I don’t know (in Russia tax legislation is easier than in Belarus), and in Belarus pay a one-time tax - about 8-10 euros per month (I don’t remember exactly, but ridiculous money), and earn money officially and you are in the state and everything is available to you, what problems?
        And so yes, plumping and saying that there is no work is easier, of course.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 13: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Max Otto
          I don’t know in Russia (in Russia tax legislation is easier than in Belarus), and in Belarus pay a one-time tax - about 8-10 euros per month (I don’t remember exactly, but ridiculous money), and earn money officially on the ground, and you are in the state and everything is available to you, what problems?

          you first find out about taxes and after we talk, there is no one-time tax
          1. Max otto
            Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 13 New
            -1
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

            you first find out about taxes and after we talk, there is no one-time tax

            And this is a topic for discussion of this very proposal of the Minister, it should be.
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    5. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 26 September 2013 21: 33 New
      +2
      The worst thing in life ...... with the initiative!
  • RUSS
    RUSS 26 September 2013 11: 41 New
    0
    If a person does not work officially, let him buy a medical pole, as well as OSAGO.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 12: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: RUSS
      Let him buy honey. pole, as well as CTP.

      then you must first cancel the free medical care.
      again about the countryside, we have an hour of arrival of the joint venture for an hour or two, you need to have medicine in the house for all occasions since there are no pharmacies on the next street, and now imagine that another 70% will be left in principle without medical help, what do you think it’s over, the village will die correctly and without turning, no one will live here
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 26 September 2013 21: 39 New
        +1
        Why no one? Wait a bit, soon the Chinese will catch up! sad
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 26 September 2013 13: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: RUSS
      If a person does not work officially, let him buy a medical pole, as well as OSAGO.

      And if it works, but the employer does not want to formalize it, will we imprison these entrepreneurs and directors for fraud, or will they again make a simple worker?
  • svp67
    svp67 26 September 2013 11: 46 New
    +1
    I believe in stars, women, grass,
    in the helm and sidekick shoulder.
    I believe in the homeland and the truth ...
    Why - into anything else ?!


    Living people are icons for me.
    I'm in harmony with the hard workers
    but i'm kneeling
    I don’t pray to them. I love them.

    And with true faith, without benefits,
    what is, was and will be Russia,
    when no one sees me
    I am slowly baptized.
  • Field
    Field 26 September 2013 11: 47 New
    +6
    You know, gentlemen (or comrades) "no office work - no" free "medical aid"
    Tell my retired grandmother about this very free medical aid, who regularly needs money for this "free" aid.
    You need an operation: wait for the surgeon from vacation, get in line and wait (if you wait) or 20 thousand rubles. only for the operation (not the most difficult removal of stones)
    Here is such a help.
    My wife went to the city dental clinic: "Our ukolchik or imported" Tooth extraction "for free" 1000 rubles with our injection.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 05 New
      +1
      My grandmother, who had a stroke, can tell your grandmother about the help for free, without any queues, she received all the necessary bells and whistles in her condition to facilitate caring for her, or tell my mother-in-law who also received everything, including diapers, when she looked after with her husband (also after a stroke) and herself in the society of the blind she got into her hands completely free of charge equipment for the blind and visually impaired. He could also tell, but he won’t be able to, a friend of my husband, who was completely removed from the quota for a tumor and had chemotherapy, whose son also had heart surgery in Moscow.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 26 September 2013 11: 57 New
    +5
    Well, let’s try, unlike the citizen of the Minister, to read the second chapter of the Russian Constitution. I allow myself small reductions for convenience.

    1. In the Russian Federation, the rights and freedoms of man and citizen are recognized and guaranteed ... in accordance with this Constitution.
    2.Fundamental human rights and freedoms are inalienable and belong to everyone from birth.
    3.Any form of restriction of the rights of citizens is prohibited. by signs of social ... affiliation.
    4.Everyone has the right to life.
    5. Forced labor is prohibited.
    Finally, a direct indication - Article 41
    1. Each has the right to health and medical care. Medical assistance in state and municipal healthcare institutions it is free for citizens at the expense of the relevant budget, insurance premiums, other income.

    It is clear that some kind of constitution is not a decree for the whole minister, I propose to abolish it altogether as unnecessary and finally officially introduce slavery as the most appropriate form of society from the point of view of the income of individuals and ministers of labor.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 00 New
      0
      You understand, there is such a thing - conscience. Nobody bothers me to quit, to leave the dog family to hell, and calmly live out my life bukhaya and living in some kind of heat point (and I know the sea in such places, it’s warm, relatively clean, wi-fi is caught), and all the workers will feed me , yes, social economy. But my conscience, social obligations and children do not allow me to do this.
      Do not go too far, slavery is free, and taxes are a debt to society. The Constitution also has obligations, not just rights. This is so far you are young and healthy - you do not care about everyone, including taxes, but what trouble will happen or you will grow old - you will run for help that needs money, and where to get it from? And I do not need to talk about the army of unscrupulous officials, this is a misfortune of a different nature and the topic is already another conversation, they should not be from the beginning.
  • Alikovo
    Alikovo 26 September 2013 12: 04 New
    +3
    Enough of them foolishly looming: I was a student working in a store as a loader unofficially, I received 10000 rubles / month.,
    a month later he officially worked, received 7500 rubles / month. who agrees to work like that.
  • Field
    Field 26 September 2013 12: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: Icestar777
    A normal man will always find work if he has a complete order with a sense of responsibility and priorities.

    Will find, of course, not the fact that the office. work and not the fact that hands will "work".
    The source of income, finds any self-respecting man.
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 26 New
    -2
    Quote: Field
    Will find, of course, not the fact that the office. work and not the fact that hands will "work".
    The source of income, finds any self-respecting man.

    Now, there is a desire — you are looking for an opportunity, there is no desire — you are looking for the cause and the guilty.
  • poccinin
    poccinin 26 September 2013 12: 26 New
    -1
    he said everything correctly. you are working officially. you pay taxes. you are all. PENSION AND FREE MED HELP. you do not work not a pension and there is no medical help. why should I pay for my uncle. who does not pay anything. doesn’t pay anyone. he buys apartments. auto. and then he receives both pension and free medical assistance.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 27 New
      -4
      +++ Absolutely in solidarity.
    2. LSV
      LSV 26 September 2013 12: 38 New
      +4
      And if you can’t get a job? Well, there is none of them .. in some kind of muhoshor.anske? Where then will he also take money for treatment? It turns out let him die, we do not need such a person?
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 46 New
        -4
        When there was no work, my friend and her husband rushed to the capital to earn money. Did you find a way out?
        1. brutal true
          brutal true 26 September 2013 13: 23 New
          +5
          Quote: Icestar777
          When there was no work, my friend and her husband rushed to the capital to earn money. Did you find a way out?

          And if they had three children, would they also rush? A crappy conversation, there’s nothing to talk about. Minister - to resign.
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 33 New
            -3
            Two children! And yes, they rushed!
    3. brutal true
      brutal true 26 September 2013 12: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: poccinin
      why should I pay for my uncle. who does not pay anything. doesn’t pay anyone. he buys apartments. auto. and then he receives both pension and free medical assistance.

      How did you get the idea that your miserable pennies, which you deduct, go to treat someone else? This money is not enough for normal maintenance, and the state will always pay extra. Look what a patron, found! In addition, the answer to the entire article is the constitution, which states: Part 1 of Art. 41 “Everyone has the right to health care and medical care. “Medical assistance in state and municipal healthcare institutions is provided to citizens free of charge from the corresponding budget, insurance contributions, and other income.”
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 51 New
        -3
        We have a favorite pastime in the country to declare our rights at every corner, but everyone is modestly silent about responsibility.
        1. brutal true
          brutal true 26 September 2013 13: 21 New
          +4
          Quote: Icestar777
          We have a favorite pastime in the country to declare our rights at every corner, but everyone is modestly silent about responsibility.
          Oh, can you tell me about my responsibilities? I gave everything I owed. In addition, we are talking about the refusal of medical care for the unemployed! This does not mean that they did not work before! Everyone can happen, but it will surely happen that he will be out of work. And what if he gets sick, should he die now without medical help? If a person works and his employer does not make deductions, etc., then the employer must be responsible for this, and that’s the point!
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 31 New
            -1
            understand
            Quote: brutal true
            If a person works and his employer does not make deductions, etc., then the employer must be responsible for this, and that’s the point!

            Read my first comment about this, and you will understand that we are on one side of the barricades)))
          2. Doctorleg
            Doctorleg 26 September 2013 16: 26 New
            0
            It is necessary that these contributions be paid by the person himself, and not by the employer. From a change in the terms of the terms ... And the person will feel that there is nothing free.
      2. Max otto
        Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 26 New
        -1
        My pennies exceed the average salary in the city where I live, and higher than my wife’s salary. Where do you think the budget comes from? Out of the air? Or is the central bank printing? It is taken from taxes. The Constitution also has obligations. A simple mathematical calculation was made on the basis of his salary: if you simply put social payments (in Russia to a pension fund) in a bank with annual capitalization, then a sum of 10-15 pensioners with you will run into retirement. Is that a penny in your opinion?
        1. brutal true
          brutal true 26 September 2013 14: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Max Otto
          It is taken from taxes.

          Yes, from taxes of large resource-mining, industrial, and other companies. And your penny is just enough for mustard =)
          1. Max otto
            Max otto 26 September 2013 15: 50 New
            -2
            Here is a reformer, so would you cancel the income tax? Or canceled but not at all? Resource-mining companies, as it were, are not state-owned, if you cancel the income tax, then cancel the income tax? Here it is, if you want stability and a peaceful sky - either everyone pays or no one pays. And then the country will be ruled by the person who decides who will pay taxes and who will not. You calculate the income tax of some enterprise and the total income tax (penny) of citizens in this area, see what will be more, you know the conclusions will surprise you.
    4. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 26 September 2013 21: 45 New
      0
      These "people" should be dealt with by the appropriate authorities.
  • Field
    Field 26 September 2013 12: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: Icestar777
    My grandmother, who had a stroke, can tell your grandmother about the help for free, without any queues, she received all the necessary bells and whistles in her condition to facilitate caring for her, or tell my mother-in-law who also received everything, including diapers, when she looked after with her husband (also after a stroke) and herself in the society of the blind she got into her hands completely free of charge equipment for the blind and visually impaired. He could also tell, but he won’t be able to, a friend of my husband, who was completely removed from the quota for a tumor and had chemotherapy, whose son also had heart surgery in Moscow.

    I don’t know, I don’t know the rule or the exception
    By the way, my grandfather (rest in peace to him) died from a stroke in the hospital and we bought pampers. and if you go into the details, then the hairs "on end" begin to stand up.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 26 September 2013 12: 43 New
      0
      I will tell you more. My colleague’s mothers recently removed the tumor, the operation was planned, they didn’t ask for the prescribed chemistry, the only condition for starting her immediately was the day hospital, because there are simply no places in the clinic. And no one even stuttered about money to speed up the process.
  • LSV
    LSV 26 September 2013 12: 33 New
    +1
    How are they for ... whether their reforms, they still can not get drunk. Yes kul there, translate everything on a paid basis - both education and medicine.
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 27 September 2013 07: 52 New
      0
      LSV  Yesterday, 12:33
      How are they for ... whether their reforms, they still can not get drunk. Yes kul there, translate everything on a paid basis - both education and medicine.

      and I would add: soon the revolution will be and they will throw these snickering oligarchs and similar ministers to hell.
  • Field
    Field 26 September 2013 12: 39 New
    +2
    Soon it will be like in the most humane and humanitarian country in the world
    There is insurance - we treat, no - but even die on the doorstep

    Our only problem is that people die with insurance, with "free" insurance.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 26 September 2013 19: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: LSV
      Yes kul there, translate everything on a paid basis - both education and medicine.
      Already, just camouflaged for now.


      Quote: Field
      Soon it will be like in the most humane and humanitarian country in the world
      So that’s the whole point: they make a worsened copy of mattress from Russia.
  • Field
    Field 26 September 2013 12: 48 New
    +5
    And to be honest, there are no words. ONE MOTHER is climbing into his head.
    Now my wife (housewife) will be without compulsory medical insurance
    The hedgehog was scared naked after day.
    I will issue VHI, just don’t shout later about society, about the fact that someone, someone owes something to someone.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: Field

      Now my wife (housewife) will be without compulsory medical insurance

      But this, by the way, is another topic to supplement the legislation and discussion. I would generally introduce preferential status for women with children - a housewife, even with an entry in the work book (if such remains to be in circulation) with accrual of seniority for retirement.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 12: 49 New
    +4
    no need to rest on our laurels, you can still make education paid for unemployed children, and it’s even easier to shoot everyone
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 30 New
      -1
      But what is it that casts you to extremes? This is about full-fledged adults, there is no talk about children.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 14: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Max Otto
        We are talking about full-fledged adults, there is no question of children.

        and this is all interconnected and there are no extremes, a simple example is a husband working, a wife is engaged in housekeeping and children, according to this idiotic law, she can no longer count on medical assistance, then the guardianship authorities will tighten up and ...
        1. Max otto
          Max otto 26 September 2013 15: 43 New
          -1
          Children have the right to free education, regardless of the social status of their parents. Sowing an offer may be idiotic in some places, but this is not a law, and it is not a fact that they will change anything. You reason, as if he was received yesterday and there is nowhere to go. That's when the finished bill is rolled out for discussion, then collect signatures and rallies for your proposals or remove unnecessary ones. This is how civil society works. To understand what is right and what is not, there are forums for this, this one or any other.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 16: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Max Otto
            This is how civil society works. To understand what is right and what is not, there are forums for this, this one or any other.

            so I say the proposal is not thought out aPtor does not want to see beyond his nose
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 26 September 2013 21: 53 New
            0
            It was also once voted for the USSR!
    2. Canep
      Canep 26 September 2013 15: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      education can also be paid for unemployed children
      Are you a liberal? What kind of education? Children unemployed for forced labor, 12 hours a day, and not only children but also their parents, pensioners, so that others would not be accustomed! laughing laughing laughing
  • RUSS
    RUSS 26 September 2013 12: 51 New
    -1
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    Quote: RUSS
    Let him buy honey. pole, as well as CTP.

    then you must first cancel the free medical care.
    again about the countryside, we have an hour of arrival of the joint venture for an hour or two, you need to have medicine in the house for all occasions since there are no pharmacies on the next street, and now imagine that another 70% will be left in principle without medical help, what do you think it’s over, the village will die correctly and without turning, no one will live here


    With medicine, you need to change something for sure, this is a fact especially in the countryside.
    The issue of paid medicine needs a special approach, it is necessary to determine the categories of people for whom medical care will be free, and for whom not. pensioners, invalids, heroes, large families, possibly rural residents, etc. - this is exactly the category of free medicine. But here I’m personally not ready to pay taxes for paying for a healthy man who gets 2 times more than a state employee on a hack.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 01 New
      0
      Quote: RUSS

      With medicine, you need to change something for sure, this is a fact especially in the countryside.
      The issue of paid medicine needs a special approach, it is necessary to determine the categories of people for whom medical care will be free, and for whom not. pensioners, invalids, heroes, large families, possibly rural residents, etc. - this is exactly the category of free medicine. But here I’m personally not ready to pay taxes for paying for a healthy man who gets 2 times more than a state employee on a hack.

      COMMENTARY ON THE SUBSTANCE. Not just need a special approach, it will. If this initiative is supported, then, of course, they will not scratch everyone under one comb. Contrary to the opinion of many of us, there are not so many oligophrenics at the top. And naturally, such an explosive issue will be considered carefully and from all sides.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 14: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: Icestar777
        . If this initiative is supported, then of course all under one comb will not scratch

        it will be so
        1. Icestar777
          Icestar777 26 September 2013 14: 12 New
          -1
          Have you heard about benefits for the same communal apartment for the disabled, large families, pensioners who have reached a certain age? Is that what you think is called one comb?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 15: 36 New
            +2
            From the statements of the "respected" minister, no different approach can be seen; there is a clear definition - the unemployed should not receive free services, this category also includes the "unemployed" at bentley, although they do not receive treatment in district clinics, and housewife Masha
          2. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 26 September 2013 19: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Icestar777
            You heard about benefits for the same communal apartment

            Do you know the size of these benefits?
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 13: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: RUSS
      But here I’m personally not ready to pay taxes to pay for a healthy man who gets 2 times more than a state employee on hack

      then excuse me first you need to work out ALL and then endure "smart" thoughts.
      think over the legalization of earnings in the same rural area.
      what is being offered now means that the village will be left without medical care, which is already minimal
      1. Icestar777
        Icestar777 26 September 2013 14: 29 New
        -1
        Perhaps I repeat ... everything naturally needs to be thought over first, so this is only an INITIATIVE, or simply put, proposal. And you are so indignant, as if you had already prepared and approved the bill and presented it with a fait accompli. And for the village I personally also have a sore soul, and indeed for the country. But you will not deny the fact that in the CITY not in the VILLAGE it is full of simply UNWANTED to work. Those who work informally on their own initiative in order to save on taxes. That it is necessary somehow to force employers to pay people a white salary with corresponding deductions. The purpose of this proposal is not to deprive people of free medical care (after all, it will be provided to officially working people), but to increase the flow of funding to the country's budget. Well, just like children, word chess.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 15: 19 New
          +1
          Quote: Icestar777
          What you need to somehow make employers pay people a white salary with

          a man on a tractor plowed a field to neighbors, what kind of white or gray salary are we talking about ?!
          1. Icestar777
            Icestar777 26 September 2013 15: 56 New
            -2
            Listen Vladimir, I'm generally known as a very calm and patient person ... Do you at least get a grasp of what I write? I’m talking about a CITY, VILLAGE is a separate topic requiring a separate dialogue and solution in this matter !!!!!!!!! And about a man who plowed a field with a neighbor, I’ll answer according to current realities. LET IT REGISTER AS A SP, WRITING A NEIGHBOR A RECEIPT, PAY THE TAX FROM THE RECEIVED EARNINGS (IF IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO IT).
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 19: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: Icestar777
              I’m talking about a CITY, VILLAGE is a separate topic requiring a separate dialogue and solution in this matter !!!!!!!!!

              I personally have no complaints about you, but I'm sorry in the project and proposals I did not see the division of the village - the city, there is a clear concept of UNEMPLOYED
              1. Icestar777
                Icestar777 26 September 2013 21: 51 New
                -2
                "Why is money transferred from the budget of the subject to the compulsory health insurance fund for non-working people? no assessment of the situation? Among the "unemployed" there are those who work, have income, but do not pay taxes and do not make contributions to social funds. Then why should they receive medical care at the expense of those who also work, but at the same time make mandatory payments? "
                You, Vladimir, apparently still did not try to read carefully.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 28 September 2013 14: 32 New
                  0
                  Quote: Icestar777
                  You, Vladimir, apparently still did not try to read carefully.

                  let's first re-read the Constitution, all the same, it is the basic law.
            2. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 26 September 2013 20: 05 New
              +3
              Quote: Icestar777
              I’m talking about a CITY, VILLAGE is a separate topic requiring a separate dialogue and solution in this matter !!!!!!!!!

              in addition, what if the family decided that the wife is engaged in raising children, even in a hot village
              Quote: Icestar777
              LET IT REGISTER AS A SP, WRITING A NEIGHBOR A RECEIPT, PAY THE TAX FROM THE EARNINGS EARNED

              the first one is 30 km to the district center and I'm sorry the bus goes there once a day, in addition, as a rule, its earnings will most likely not be taxed as it will fall to a minimum, this is a complex issue, but stupidly as suggested by the labor min will lead either to rebellion or to people will leave the earth
          2. Max otto
            Max otto 26 September 2013 16: 01 New
            0
            Do you happen to work in government? And then they look exactly the same no further than their own nose, they only see under their feet, and strategically on the prospect of nifig. This is a proposal for a law in a general sense, and not for a man with a tractor. And if a man has a tractor, then if it is not his tractor but a collective farm, then this is the problem of the chairman of the collective farm and not the ministry of labor. If this is a personal tractor, then he is a farmer and, accordingly, already pays taxes and everything is in order with him. And if he is not a farmer and has a tractor, then let him draw up a private entrepreneur and pay a small tax and get a profit, or even so, this is his personal problem, let him stay with a minimum old-age pension and pay cash for medical care.
  • Just
    Just 26 September 2013 13: 00 New
    0
    Quote: For example, a woman with a higher technical education “for lack of suitable vacancies” is offered to “temporarily” collect apples or mountain ash in an agricultural firm (an example, by the way, is real). And if such a job seeker suddenly refuses the offered job, deciding that it would be better to raise a child and engage, offhand, in her personal plot, then she, too, turns out to be deprived of free medical care? ..

    Here, as usual, everything is confused. Obtaining a tower does not oblige the state to provide the recipient with a job and does not give anyone the right to receive benefits for free. The author does not understand this? Finding a job is the responsibility of the citizen himself. If he is not able to do this, despite higher education, then, apparently, the education is not very high quality. So go do what they offer. Do not want? Then bear all, including financial, responsibility yourself. Workers do not have to pay for tunics. Loafers need to be forced to work, not feed and treat at the expense of the responsible part of the population.
    What is characteristic is the so-called the intelligentsia, at one time, advocated the rejection of Soviet egalitarianism and the transition to the so-called market economy. Would you like to? Get it.
    1. Icestar777
      Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 11 New
      -1
      Nooo, no one needs to be forced. You just need to give a choice or you work in the system, or you don’t work and drop out of it, someone, of course, can go a long way and in this case he will definitely fall under the full state security.
  • Just
    Just 26 September 2013 13: 09 New
    -3
    Quote: LSV
    And if you can’t get a job? Well, there is none of them .. in some kind of muhoshor.anske? Where then will he also take money for treatment? It turns out let him die, we do not need such a person?


    It is the person’s responsibility to look for work; the state only helps by offering vacancies at employment centers. Don't like the suggestions? Search for yourself. No work in the city? Go to another. So the whole world lives.
    1. brutal true
      brutal true 26 September 2013 13: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Simpleton
      It is the person’s responsibility to look for work; the state only helps by offering vacancies at employment centers. Don't like the suggestions? Search for yourself. No work in the city? Go to another. So the whole world lives.

      And you probably live like that?
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 26 September 2013 13: 44 New
        -1
        Man has hands. I have a lot of friends (my former workers, well, it’s not convenient for them to work for 5-6 months on business trips all over Belarus), they work only in the city, on repairs in apartments, per month. they earn 200-600 euros, in the tax they pay one-time 8-10 euros per month. Schedule is free. Pick up a city newspaper - there are such ads there.
        Quote: Field

        The source of income, finds any self-respecting man.
    2. Very old
      Very old 26 September 2013 13: 27 New
      0
      Do you have such opportunities?
  • Icestar777
    Icestar777 26 September 2013 13: 28 New
    +5
    It is not for nothing that they say that truth is born in dispute. Reasonable and rational comments began to appear in direct proportion to their number. Discussions went sensible. Finding the best solutions. Where to start, etc. etc. We are here to develop an ideal reform, and the officials will only have to approve it.
  • Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 26 September 2013 14: 04 New
    +3
    "Social" in all its glory: the Ministry of Labor proposes to deprive non-working citizens of free medical care
    If you carefully look at the actions of the authorities in recent years, then there is an interesting picture:
    The state, government, the ruling regime - whoever likes it, purposefully reduces their share in the social network, i.e. they seem to give something (in the form of increases to pensions, to salaries), and the next step is selected (increase in prices for services from natural monopolies, etc., etc.). And taxes are collected from us not only in the form of income tax of 13%, do not forget about the VAT of 18% that everyone pays with every purchase. hi
    1. Arabist
      Arabist 26 September 2013 14: 22 New
      0
      In the world there is only 1 country where people do not pay taxes-DPRK. And the effect of this is purely political, for there is no smell of communism there.
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 26 September 2013 19: 36 New
        +2
        The DPRK cannot be cited as an example for one simple reason - the country is isolated under sanctions. Which economy is better open so far. Maybe DPRK and therefore pressed, that would not prove. This option is not considered?
        1. Arabist
          Arabist 26 September 2013 19: 53 New
          0
          Well, why did the USSR not build communism? There were taxes and money.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 26 September 2013 20: 10 New
            +2
            Quote: Arabist
            for there is no smell of communism there.
            Quite right - there they are covering up the monarchy with communism.

            Well, why did the USSR not build communism? There were taxes and money.
            Because the principle of "all power to the Soviets" was not implemented, that is, the democratic system was not built - instead, the nomenklatura came to power, which set itself the goal of usurping the people's property, which it subsequently did.
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 26 September 2013 20: 13 New
              0
              Do not believe Yarosvet, I completely agree with you.
    2. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 26 September 2013 16: 31 New
      +1
      There is not enough money. We get up from our knees, we need weapons, high salaries + Olympics (this is prestigious) + World Cup + etc. etc. Oh yes, and do not offend yourself.