Military Review

Ukraine - EU: a zero-sum game for Kiev

201



One of the agenda items of the autumn session of the European Parliament held on 9-12 in September in Strasbourg was formulated very frankly: “The pressure exerted by Russia on the Eastern Partnership countries (in the context of the upcoming Eastern Partnership Summit in Vilnius). The discussion of this issue was put on a par with the discussion about the internal political situation in Belarus.
In recent months, the European Union has been more and more energetically playing the “Ukrainian card”, and traditionally Germany and Poland are among the main players, which have played an ambiguous role, to put it mildly, in stories Of Ukraine ...

A new round of EU maneuvers around Kiev started with an emergency meeting of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the European Parliament held in late August. It was dedicated to the "aggravation" of trade relations between Ukraine and Russia. In Brussels, they even started talking about the “trade war” of Kiev and Moscow, in which the EU should unconditionally support Ukraine. The situation in the triangle “EU - Ukraine - Russia” was discussed at its meeting even by representatives of the Visegrad countries (Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic).

In Europe, you can now hear accusations of Moscow of anything: either in an effort to regain control of Ukraine a la the USSR, then in an intention to seize the Crimea from her, then in attempts to push the Ukrainian-speaking west and the Russian-speaking east of a single country together. At some point, the apotheosis of these accusations was the position taken by a number of politicians in Poland, the Scandinavian countries and some other EU countries on the project to build the Nord Stream gas pipeline. Instead of welcoming the opportunity not to depend in the future on energy supplies from Ukrainian transit countries, Europe started talking about “energy imperialism” of either Gazprom, Russia, or Vladimir Putin personally.

The customs and procedural problems that arose in mid-August in trade relations between Ukraine and the Russian Federation became a new and even stronger temptation for the EU. It is clear that such veterans of the anti-Russian geopolitical battles, as the chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the European Parliament German Elmar Brock and his fellow European parliamentarian Pole Jacek Saryush-Wolski could not pass by such a tasty invoice. In their joint address, they called on the EU to protect Ukraine from Russia. “By blocking imports from Ukraine, Russia is unleashing a trade war with Ukraine. The pressure is increasing to keep Ukraine from signing the Association and Free Trade Zone Agreement with the EU, ”Brock and Saryush-Wolski said.

Still, how much do the accusations of two European parliamentarians correspond to elementary common sense? Indeed, the Russian authorities 14 August temporarily tightened the customs regime on the border with Ukraine, but they did it in strict accordance with the norms of the European Union itself. Cargo is now inspected, and questionable samples are taken for additional expertise - in those cases and volumes in which this is done in EU member states.

The logic is clear. Indeed, if Ukraine actually signs the Association and Free Trade Area Agreement with the EU, Russia will no longer be able to consider it as a preferred trading partner. So, the same practice that exists in trade and economic relations between Moscow and Brussels will spread to Ukraine.

By the way, the adviser to the president of Russia Sergey Glazyev informed the European public about this in advance. According to him, we are talking about preventive measures related to the “preparation of changes in the customs administration regime, if Ukraine signs the Association Agreement with the EU”.

Today, Russia and Ukraine are bound by close economic ties, which are not developed according to the laws and regulations of the European Union. And in the event of a unilateral change in this situation by Kiev and Brussels, Moscow will be forced to revise the relevant procedures. It is clear that this will not be in the interests of Ukraine itself or of Ukrainian producers and buyers. After all, the situation is such that, although most of Ukraine’s foreign trade is in Russia, the European Union is trying to tear Ukraine away from Russia at any cost. And thus to the Ukrainian side of the socio-economic damage in the form, above all, rising unemployment and the deepening crisis.

At the moment, at least three groups of lobbyists, pushing the idea of ​​concluding an agreement with Ukraine based on their own interests, are distinguishable in the European Union.

The first group is the leading corporations of the EU member states trying to find new markets in the conditions of the financial and economic crisis. That is why the agreement on the creation of a free trade zone with the EU will be extremely disadvantageous for Ukraine: after all, it will have to open its markets to European products, but it will not automatically be admitted to the EU markets, because Ukrainian products do not formally correspond to most European quality standards.

The second group, equally interested in the implementation of the Eastern Partnership program, is the Brussels bureaucracy. The EU Commissioner for Expansion, Stefan Füle, and the EU's foreign policy emissary, Catherine Ashton, set the tone here. In 2014, elections to the European Parliament will take place, after which a new European Commission will be formed, and Ukraine’s “sticking” to the EU would be a weighty argument for the current European Missors in favor of their re-election.

The third group of lobbyists of the Eastern Partnership program is a pro-American and at the same time anti-Russian lobby in the EU countries, thanks to which, strictly speaking, this program appeared. The main actors in this lobby are Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, his Swedish counterpart Carl Bildt and the aforementioned Elmar Brock.

Here it is useful to remind that the most ambitious projects of "arrangement" of the Eastern European region traditionally belonged to Polish politicians. In the period between the First and Second World Wars, the then Polish leader Józef Pilsudski was hatching the idea of ​​creating the Intermarine region - a confederative state that would unite Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and stretched from the Baltics. Black Sea. Such a confederation, Pilsudski believed, should serve to revive the traditions of the Commonwealth and prevent the spread of Soviet Russia’s influence on all these countries. (Nowadays the same ideas are defended by extreme nationalists from the All-Ukrainian public association "Freedom" .) And in 60, Polish journalist Jerzy Giedroyc, who was in exile, put forward the “ULB Plan”, which provided for separation of the Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belarusian SSR from Soviet Russia, turning their independent, anti-Russian-oriented states and creating a buffer between Poland and Russia .

Such projects, which to some extent can be considered the predecessors of the Eastern Partnership - as it appears to the anti-Russian forces in the EU - in turn had parallels in the concepts developed in Germany and Austria. They go back, in particular, to the concept of “Middle Europe” created at the beginning of the 20th century by Friedrich Naumann. The latter was understood as an aggregate of German lands, called upon to enter into “full economic dependence on Germany” and covered Austria-Hungary and significant parts of neighboring states.

The aspiration of the initiators of the Eastern Partnership program to maximize its anti-Russian vector was also reflected in a document released in Brussels on December 3 2008 in Brussels and entitled “Communication from the European Commission to the European Parliament and the European Council. Eastern Partnership. The main objective of the program was to proclaim the implementation of the decisions of the emergency session of the European Council, which required “to send a clearer signal regarding the EU commitments in connection with the conflict in Georgia and its consequences on a wider scale”. This document also consolidated the important role of the Eastern Partnership in terms of the implementation of projects for the transportation of energy resources to the EU countries without the participation of Russia, with the involvement of the countries of Central Asia.

As you can see, Ukraine’s geopolitical and energy projects are far from being of paramount importance. As for the high-profile accusations against Russia, which allegedly intends to deploy a “trade war” against Ukraine, here the ball, as they say, is just in the western half of the field. It is there, including in the space of the European Union itself, that similar wars are unfolding today.

In general, fighting for the interests of Ukraine and the universal “trade world” in words, gentlemen Brock, Saryush-Wolski and their like-minded people are once again trying to draw the European Union, the Visegrad group and other structures into questionable political games that are not related to the true European interests countries and peoples.
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http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2013/09/16/ukraina-es-igra-s-nulevym-rezultatom-dlja-kieva-i-22831.html
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  1. soldat1945
    soldat1945 18 September 2013 06: 56 New
    27
    Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to choose with whom it is, the most important thing is that every year it will be harder and harder to do, both because of the internal split of society in Ukraine and because of the ever-growing fragmentation of Russia towards the dual politics of Ukraine, hey, Slav brothers Us Russian You are still not strangers!
    1. Crocodile
      Crocodile 18 September 2013 07: 08 New
      20
      Quote: soldat1945
      hey brethren Slavs for us Russian You are still not strangers!

      There was a step left, and most likely, the current authorities of Ukraine will take it, forgetting all their campaign promises ... sad
      1. Hauptmann emil
        Hauptmann emil 18 September 2013 07: 22 New
        11
        To be honest, I'm tired of this hysteria. Well, the Ukrainians want (and it is not necessary to say that these are not all Ukrainians, but only the "elite") an association with es-let. What problems? We can live without them. And they too, I think they will survive. So they want it so much. And then every time "brothers Slavs, brothers Slavs." There are many Slavs in Geyrope, and where are they all? correct in the EU.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 18 September 2013 07: 32 New
          14
          Quote: Crocodile
          most likely, today's Ukrainian authorities will do it, forgetting all their campaign promises

          They will do it if they want to become political corpses. The owners of Europe need controlled Ukraine, but Yanukovych and his brothers do not. And thanks from the Europeans for leading Ukraine on a leash will not wait. Europe has never been grateful.

          Although, perhaps, Yanukovych and the brigade consider themselves political balancers, and they will somehow manage to slip through. However, for someone, a couple of billions in their personal pocket due to the sale of Nenko is the pinnacle of business and the height of dreams.
          1. Crocodile
            Crocodile 18 September 2013 08: 08 New
            12
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            They will do it if they want to become political corpses.

            Now, if the destroyers of the USSR had become not just political corpses, but ACTUAL - in the squares under the gaze of their people, then perhaps these questions would not have arisen in the future!
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            However, for someone, a couple of billions in their personal pocket due to the sale of Nenko is the pinnacle of business and the pinnacle of dreams.

            What they fought for and ran into - pure capitalism!
            1. Captain Vrungel
              Captain Vrungel 18 September 2013 09: 11 New
              24
              On the aspen stake of the "marked" devil's accomplice and to recreate the God.
            2. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 18 September 2013 21: 28 New
              +3
              hi
              The most well-known figure of the past, also an “ardent friend” of Russia, the first chancellor of the German Empire, Otto Edward Leopold Karl-Wilhelm-Ferdinand von Bismarck-Schönhausen, spoke most fully and clearly on this issue:
              “The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear it, but also contrast Ukraine of Russia, to pit two parts of a single people and watch how a brother will kill his brother. To do this, you just need to find and grow traitors among the national elite and with their help change self one part of a great nation to such an extent that it will hate everything Russian, hate its kind without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
              The guy looked at the root, as if he foresaw the current situation, where is Vange ...
              1. MG42
                MG42 18 September 2013 23: 22 New
                0
                Quote: Apologet.Ru
                The most well-known figure of the past, also an “ardent friend” of Russia, the first chancellor of the German Empire, Otto Edward Leopold Karl-Wilhelm-Ferdinand von Bismarck-Schönhausen, spoke most fully and clearly on this issue:

                Only yesterday there was an article on VO that allegedly he was not.

                http://topwar.ru/33347-slyshen-byl-zvon-no-otkuda-on-o-polze-utochneniya-pervois

                tochnikov-v-diskussii.html

                Who?
                1. Apologet.Ru
                  Apologet.Ru 18 September 2013 23: 38 New
                  +2
                  hi
                  Even if not he, the one who said this was a very intelligent person, it’s more difficult and difficult to formulate more comprehensively and precisely ...
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 19 September 2013 13: 01 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Apologet.Ru
                    Even if not he, the one who said this was a very intelligent person, it is more difficult and difficult to formulate in a larger and more precise way.

                    On the Internet there are many versions of who said that .. And if Goebbels = chief propagandist of the 3rd Reich, there is also such a version, what do you say then? Let's give him compliments again ..
          2. domokl
            domokl 18 September 2013 19: 24 New
            +5
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            They will do it if they want to become political corpses. The owners of Europe need controlled Ukraine, but Yanukovych and his brothers do not.

            My dear, you quickly forgot Gorbachev’s Nobel Prize laureate. He lives to himself like cheese in butter rolls and sometimes lectures for European students. And why the hell is Russia? it will be the same with Ukraine. The Moor will do its job and provide for itself and its descendants for many years.
            Yanukovych knows what he is doing and knows his future fate. Not at all in the poor and not in the slums
            1. MG42
              MG42 18 September 2013 22: 57 New
              +4
              Quote: domokl
              Yanukovych knows what he is doing and knows his future fate. Not at all in the poor and not in the slums

              Yanukovych had a difficult childhood and about youth with 2 trips, he himself recalls one episode from his childhood >>

              threw himself into memories: he remembered his childhood grievances and hinted that he even thanked them when he grew up.

              “I have been in politics for a long time, I have never promised anything, I have not given any empty promises to people. Never. Why? I think it is even sinful. Once in early childhood I was very much deceived, for a trifle - my older comrades promised to take me on one trip. I did not sleep at night, early in the morning I came with a bag, and they left, and their parents told me that the train was in the evening, it was leaving. And this is a small example. I was very ill that I was promised and deceived "- admitted Yanukovych.


              there is a video >>

              http://ru.tvi.ua/new/2013/04/11/Garant_porazil_nikolaev_kortezhem_i_vospominaniy
              ami_o_detskikh_obidakh

              He will definitely provide a bright future for his sons
              1. v.lyamkin
                v.lyamkin 19 September 2013 07: 55 New
                +2
                Well, glory to those gentlemen, now everything is clear with Mr. Odin Yanukovych: after all, all behavioral reactions are laid down and acquired in childhood
          3. Theophanes
            Theophanes 18 September 2013 21: 00 New
            +5
            exactly! Selling Ukraine to Europe will add a couple of billion to their pocket Yanek and K, and the people of Ukraine do not care. In addition, and alternate airfield for Janek. He knows for sure that he won’t be the president anymore! But Europe will be like a hunchback to meet him. Traitors in the Euros love.
            1. alexng
              alexng 19 September 2013 06: 39 New
              +2
              What is the EU very well said in this joke:
              Medieval England. The beggar sits a beggar. Robin Hood comes out of the forest and throws a bag of gold at the beggar's feet with the words :.
              - I'm Robin Hood, I take from the rich and give to the poor!
              The beggar rejoices:
              -Finally, happiness also smiled at me! I am now fabulously rich!
              Robin Hood pierces the beggar with a sword, takes the gold and says:
              - I'm Robin Hood, I take from the rich and give to the poor!
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 18 September 2013 08: 19 New
          +7
          Quote: Hauptmann Emil
          Well, the Ukrainians want (and it is not necessary to say that these are not all Ukrainians, but only the "elite") an association with es-let.

          Yes, the fact of the matter is that they DO NOT WANT! Just now (morning - 07.11) I looked at the results on referendum2013.in.ua. 13043 "FOR" - 10452 - "Against"However, the Central Election Commission refused to register the initiative group for an all-Ukrainian referendum on Ukraine's entry into the Customs Union. According to the deputy chairman of the CEC Andriy Magera, according to the law on an all-Ukrainian referendum, a message about the holding of a meeting of citizens must be submitted to the CEC no later than 5 calendar days before it. At the same time, such a message, citizens Petr Symonenko, Georgy Buyko and Alexander Adveny, on the holding of a meeting of citizens on September 8 at the Spartak stadium, was submitted on September 3, that is, 4 calendar days in advance. http://www.segodnya.ua/politics/pnews/CIK-edinoglasno-oborval-plany-KPU-o-proved
          enii-referenduma - 460904.html
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 08: 35 New
            +5
            Quote: Egoza
            on September 8, a meeting of citizens at the Spartak stadium was submitted on September 3, that is, 4 calendar days in advance. http://www.segodnya.ua/politics/pnews/CIK-edinoglasno-oborval-plany-KPU-o-proved

            Elena, but what can we say on September 15, you can’t postpone and file on the 8th?
            1. Egoza
              Egoza 18 September 2013 09: 52 New
              +6
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              what say on September 15 you cannot transfer and submit 8 numbers?

              I don’t know, but in any case, the Communist Party promises to fight and hold this referendum.
          2. Luna
            Luna 18 September 2013 21: 53 New
            0
            There, in 10 minutes, they threw 4000 "against", so it is useless to look at the result.
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 08: 33 New
          +7
          Quote: Hauptmann Emil
          Well, the Ukrainians want (and it is not necessary to say that these are not all Ukrainians, but only the "elite") an association with es-let. What problems?

          There are only a few problems
          .1 As a result of signing with the EU, they will quickly get into a puddle, collect new debts and ultimately we will be to blame for this. Well or Russia, as is customary in Ukraine.
          2. First, the EU, then NATO, and why the hell do we need them at our borders.
          1. Arti
            Arti 18 September 2013 09: 39 New
            10
            To hell with them and not NATO, NATO is a hostile structure for Russia, which means that there can be no talk of compliance with the agreement on good neighborliness.
            And if so, then we will return Crimea to itself, with which obviously someone will not agree.
            And this is already a territorial dispute, and with such problems in NATO (according to their charters) they do not take.
            1. RBLip
              RBLip 18 September 2013 11: 27 New
              -12 qualifying.
              Quote: Arti
              And if so, then return Crimea to itself

              Sorry, I can’t understand why Russia needs Crimea? feed the Crimean Tatars? the parasites of the kazakhskys are not enough for us, let us hang these more on our necks. Of course, we need the Black Sea Fleet base in Sevastopol, but can it somehow solve the issue of Sevastopol without the whole Crimea?
              1. tilovaykrisa
                tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 46 New
                10
                Crimea is needed, Tatarva, as you put it, you can relocate and the benefit is good there is experience, and so we will have rest places there exceptional and good people.
          2. Corneli
            Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 11 New
            -5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            2. First, the EU, then NATO, and why the hell do we need them at our borders.

            Maybe it's time to stop your raving about NATO? There would have been a dream to join there (and a desire) Under Yushchenko, there were all the opportunities and aspirations (which Yanukovych curtailed at the root) So hare this cheap and wretched propaganda here to overpair ... "Marshal" ...
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 18 September 2013 19: 17 New
              -3
              Quote: Corneli
              Maybe it's time to stop your raving about NATO? There would have been a dream to join there (and a desire) Under Yushchenko, there were all the opportunities and aspirations (which Yanukovych curtailed at the root) So hare this cheap and wretched propaganda here to overpair ... "Marshal" ...

              OH! Someone can not answer? *) The current minus the poor thing))) repeat
              That yes ... really she is)
            2. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 19 September 2013 03: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: Corneli
              So hare already this cheap and wretched propaganda overpassed here ... "Marshal" ...

              I miss you my beloved fellow Idiocy is a disease request Meet the doctor am wassat
              1. alexng
                alexng 19 September 2013 12: 10 New
                0
                Yes calm down. This show will end soon. After all, the plans of the USA on all fronts have already been fulfilled: Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Serbia. Iraq and Libya renew all the agreements that existed before the aggression (the West did not achieve the main goal, everything returned to normal). Afghanistan - has always been a catalyst for the deaths of empires that have been pushed to them (now we are witnessing the agony of the Anglo-Saxon empire). Serbia is applying for entry into the customs union. The dollar is about to collapse, and without the USA Ukraine is not needed for the EU in FIG. I propose to stock up on popcorn and patience. The show goes on. So far, in this chess game, Russia wins and declares a check for a check. Mat is just around the corner.
        4. Flooding
          Flooding 18 September 2013 09: 19 New
          26
          Quote: Hauptmann Emil
          We can live without them. And they too, I think they will survive. So they want it so much. And then every time "brothers Slavs, brothers Slavs." There are many Slavs in Geyrope, and where are they all? correct in the EU.

          The message is fundamentally wrong and destructive. Ukrainians and Russian brothers not by words, but by blood, by parents. No need to dance with an aero-tambourine euro pipe.
          Blood from the nose must be counterbalanced by the expansion of the West into the minds and souls of the Ukrainian brother. The go-ahead will not bring to good. Some say: well, this Ukraine, let them live. Others: we fence off the Caucasus with a concrete fence. Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, God forbid (Lukashenko is not eternal), the same gossip about Belarus will begin.
          You can’t even think of such a situation. Ukraine is the brother of Russia and the point.
          It is always difficult to restore normal relations between disparate relatives. But it's worth it.
          It is much easier to forget about your consanguineous relationship, but this is the way for the weak and cowardly. This is the path to irreparable loss.
          1. rolik
            rolik 18 September 2013 15: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: Flood
            . Ukrainians and Russian brothers not by words, but by blood, by parents. No need to dance with an aero-tambourine euro pipe.

            To my deep regret, present-day Russia lacks a man like Suslov. That's where the brilliant politician and ideologist was. People of this scale are very rare. Now lovers are engaged in ideology, so such an unsightly picture
            1. tilovaykrisa
              tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 20: 01 New
              +2
              Suslov is at least a controversial figure, here I.V. Stalin or, at worst, Yu.V. Andropov would really not hurt us.
              I read a lot about the word, they say the rare bookworm and formalist was too ideological.
              1. rolik
                rolik 18 September 2013 23: 40 New
                0
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                Suslov is at least a controversial figure, here I.V. Stalin or, at worst, Yu.V. Andropov would really not hurt us.

                Stalin and Andropov themselves did not closely engage in IDEOLOGY, they had slightly different responsibilities. Under Stalin it was, at first Zhdanov then Suslov, Andropov led the country for only 15 months.
              2. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 18 September 2013 23: 58 New
                0
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                Suslov is at least a controversial figure,

                I don’t know why he thought up a genius there, but to plant and send for dissent is nonsense. To prohibit films and literature, too. The people seemed to be boiling in a cauldron and could not find a way out for their hormones. Especially youth
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 19 September 2013 03: 10 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Pilat2009
                  to plant and send for dissent is nonsense. To prohibit films and literature, too.

                  Agree good For literature like My Struggle and the Triumph of Will film am Without the statute of limitations
        5. true love
          true love 18 September 2013 09: 39 New
          17
          A national politician in his right mind (in Russia) will never say - "Yes, and God is with her, with this Ukraine." Ukraine is 40 million people, where more than 60% support the course of rapprochement with Russia. In fact, these are Russian people living in the territory "temporarily" called "Independent Ukraine". And this politician will never throw such an electorate.
        6. Natalia
          Natalia 18 September 2013 10: 57 New
          +6
          In the period between the First and Second World Wars, the then Polish leader Jozef Pilsudski nurtured the idea of ​​creating Intermarium - a confederate state that would unite Poland, Ukraine, Belarus
          And back in the 60s, the Polish publicist Jerzy Giedroitz, who was in exile, put forward the “ULB plan”, which provided for the separation of Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belorussian SSR, turning them into independent, anti-Russian-oriented states and creating from them a buffer between Poland and Russia.

          You see, the logic of the gentry (and not only), they will all aim to take Belarus into their own hands, even today ... they are kind of evil ... Poles.

          And Ukraine is already all practical with one foot in the "democratic gay club", a couple like a nezva-leva ... after all, if Yanukovych is the most pro-Russian politician preferred Europe to historical fraternal Russia, then proceeding from this logic, Ukraine will not return to Russia in the near future. ... for example, I don't know a single politician there who would like to follow the path of integration with Russia ...
          .... Hmm, in the course of this fait accompli. Well, well, sorry, we could have the most powerful union in the world RUSSIA, UKRAINE, BELARUS.
        7. chushoj
          chushoj 18 September 2013 18: 38 New
          0
          The rooted psychology of processed brains:
          1. Who will live without whom, or survive.
          2. What is more profitable and who will give what to whom.
          Just such categories of thinking have led to what we have. This is the same as Yeltsin was chosen, and everyone was wondering what would happen next.
          Next will be increased control on the border with Russia and Belarus.
      2. bereg
        bereg 18 September 2013 11: 11 New
        0
        Well, now let's see how Ukraine will fall apart, divide and conquer!
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 47 New
          +7
          What are you gloating about? The collapse of Ukraine is the grief of its people and Russia, it will also bring nothing but troubles.
          1. bereg
            bereg 18 September 2013 12: 36 New
            +3
            I do not gloat, there is no such habit. Unfortunately this is becoming a hoof sorry
      3. Corneli
        Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Crocodile
        There was a step left, and most likely, today's authorities of Ukraine will take it, forgetting all their campaign promises ... sad

        Which ones?
        The election program of V. Yanukovych
        "... 7. FOREIGN POLICY: OPENNESS AND GOOD NEIGHBORHOOD
        I consider the main task of national foreign policy to maintain the non-aligned status of Ukraine.
        Given the current geopolitical realities, I am convinced that the non-aligned status of Ukraine is a key element of national security, increasing its international influence and authority.
        I will restore friendly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation, the CIS countries, I will provide a strategic partnership with the USA, the EU, the GXNUMX countries ... "
        "On April 1, 2010, Yanukovych criticized the discussion about the possibility of creating a union of the states of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. Yanukovych said that the strategic direction of Ukrainian foreign policy is integration into the European Union.
        On April 2, 2010, Viktor Yanukovych signed decrees that liquidated the interagency commission on Ukraine’s preparations for joining NATO and the national center for Euro-Atlantic integration, created in 2006 under the presidency of Viktor Yushchenko
        On April 21, 2010, at a meeting in Kharkov, Viktor Yanukovych held talks with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, following which Kharkov agreements were signed to extend the deployment of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea for 25 years. Yanukovych himself called such agreements in an appeal to the Ukrainian people a solution to the main problem left by his predecessors - the problem of normalizing relations with the Russian Federation and changing “bonded gas contracts that brought the state to the brink of a socio-economic collapse”
        On April 26, 2010, during a visit to Strasbourg, Viktor Yanukovych told the PACE that “we consider it to be wrong and unfair to recognize the Holodomor as a fact of genocide against one or another people.” It was a tragedy, a general tragedy of the states that were part of the USSR ”
        On April 27, 2010, Yanukovych stated that “Ukraine’s joining the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan is impossible today, because the economic principles and laws of the WTO do not allow this”
        On June 4, 2010, Viktor Yanukovych announced that Ukraine would not recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
        On July 15, Yanukovych signed a law on the main directions of the state's domestic and foreign policy, in which he finally abandoned the course of joining NATO, declaring Ukraine's non-aligned status ... "
        We read this BRIEF selection, and we answer, and what was there in Yanukovych's policy that was "non-consensual" and "liar"?
      4. The comment was deleted.
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 18 September 2013 07: 21 New
      10
      they say that politics is a dark matter, and they also compare it with an iceberg, 2/3 is hidden under water, I really want to believe / know that the BB is doing everything right and Russia will not lose Ukraine forever, otherwise the geopolitical situation for the countries included in the CU will greatly worsen , but this is not critical, but Ukraine will turn into a remote province of the EU with all the ensuing "benefits" of universal "values"
      1. agbykov
        agbykov 18 September 2013 11: 22 New
        +4
        under the iceberg 9 / 10 (see http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisberg)
    3. drop
      drop 18 September 2013 08: 15 New
      11
      What you have expressed is true. In my life I had to create enterprises in Kiev, Khmelnitsky, Nikolaev. These were wonderful years, but most importantly we were surrounded by like-minded Ukrainians. Even in Lviv, at the Lenin Association, this is Western Ukraine, there has always been a creative and friendly atmosphere when starting up new products and solving technical problems. Ukrainians, think twice, we need to strengthen our families together, we need to protect ourselves from non-believers together. Until it’s too late, listen to what our president Putin V.V. says - you and I should have only one path.
      1. 787nkx
        787nkx 18 September 2013 10: 48 New
        +4
        When it comes to the actual breakdown of existing production and business
        integration, I think Ukraine will moderate its ardor in moving west.
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 08: 30 New
      +4
      Quote: soldat1945
      Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to choose with whom it is,

      The government chose the EU, and the people of Ukraine are evenly divided, some to the west, others to the east. Question, what has changed in Ukrainian politics since 1991? The answer is nothing! And for more than 20 years, the independent one has been going to Europe and cannot come. laughing
      1. Natalia
        Natalia 18 September 2013 17: 55 New
        +1
        Yes, the whole point of Ukraine is to be pro-Russian or pro-Western, it’s simply not possible to be anything else ... the only question is, why did they suddenly decide to become pro-Western, what did they muddy against us, did we do anything bad to them ?. ... oooooh question Mlyn .... for $ 150.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 18 September 2013 21: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Natalia
          oooooh question mlyn .... for $ 150.

          Sorry for the offtop, why exactly this amount?
          1. Natalia
            Natalia 18 September 2013 23: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Setrac
            Sorry for the offtop, why exactly this amount?

            ..... do not focus on the amount, if you want a metaphor ... the main thing is the essence of the issue
    5. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 18 September 2013 09: 18 New
      14
      This is the whole of Yanukovych. With any particular movement, the pitchfork will be in the ass. So he got up in his most comfortable pose.
      1. MG42
        MG42 18 September 2013 22: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        With any particular movement, the pitchfork will be in the ass

        With a pitchfork for VFJ it is certainly beautiful wassat
        However, how much protection he needs in the motorcade still needs to be sought from other presidents, although there was one attempt on him known to everyone with the help of a chicken egg, so he lost consciousness bully since then no money has been spared for protecting state treasuries ..
    6. Algor73
      Algor73 18 September 2013 09: 36 New
      +3
      "... hey brothers Slavs for us Russians you are still not strangers!" - explain this to yours and our Putin and Yanukovychs.
      1. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 48 New
        +7
        Our somehow independent looks laughing
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel 18 September 2013 13: 11 New
          10
          If I were in our place, it is not yet known how he got himself upset. In general, we ourselves are to blame. Our actions are reduced to active inaction, therefore, we have what we have.
        2. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 20: 16 New
          +3
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          Ours looks more independent

          Obama also looks on his own. But we know ... repeat laughing
          1. tilovaykrisa
            tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 20: 43 New
            +3
            I’ll say it differently, ours is capable of daring with boldness in a beautiful literary form, and on occasion it can also be rude to muzzle other faces on the chessboard, and if you finish it, it will do like O. Bender in a game with one-eyed, there are no more while on the world stage.
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 21: 43 New
              +1
              Quote: tilovaykrisa
              there are no more of these on the world stage.

              That is yes. The question is different. Do you think GDP is an independent figure?
    7. MG42
      MG42 18 September 2013 10: 07 New
      +8
      Quote: soldat1945
      Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to choose with whom it is,

      Ukrainian authorities have already decided = stay tuned for news from Ukraine.
      What's important. >>

      1. The CEC refused to register the initiative group under the pretext that the application was not submitted on time and that there was no representative of the CEC, which means that there will be no referendum on accession to the CU. along the way they will turn on the admin resource, they’ve already turned it on.

      KPU, despite the ban of the court, held referendum fees


      The Central Election Commission of Ukraine refused to register an initiative group to hold a referendum on Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union.

      The commission made the relevant decision today.



      http://lb.ua/news/2013/09/17/227114_tsik_otkazal_kommunistam.html

      2. Today Andriy Klyuev went to Brussels = this is the figure who makes a specific shadow policy in Ukraine >>

      Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) of Ukraine Andriy Klyuyev on Wednesday, September 18, will leave for Brussels on a working visit. This was reported by representatives of the Ukrainian official.
      It should be noted that the main purpose of Klyuyev’s visit to Brussels will be to discuss preparations for signing the Association Agreement between Ukraine and the European Union in November 2013. Andriy Klyuyev will communicate with representatives of the European Parliament.
      It is planned that the NSDC secretary will also meet with President of the European Parliament Martin Schulz, MPs from his allies - the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats political party, as well as chairman of the allied party, Hannes Svoboda. In addition, a meeting is planned with representatives of the delegation of the European Parliament on relations with Ukraine, headed by Pavel Koval.

      supervising all issues of Ukraine’s European integration was “assigned” to the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council in the decree of the President of Ukraine No. 127 of 12.03.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX.


      http://www.novostimira.com.ua/news_69307.html
      1. Stamp
        Stamp 18 September 2013 19: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: MG42
        Today Andriy Klyuyev went to Brussels = this is the figure who makes a specific shadow policy in Ukraine

        Andriy Petrovich Klyuyev is also the Ukrainian oligarch in the fullness of this word, since he has his own business in particular in the electric power industry and at the same time holds key positions in power before this post, he was the first deputy prime minister in the Cabinet of Azarov, but after the scandal in unclear circumstances related precisely to European money for alternative energy has become the secretary of the NSDC.
        Klyuev is known as the owner of a large estate near Kiev with an area of ​​9 hectares. Behind a high granite wall in the “Klyuev Forest” near Koncha-Zaspa (the Ukrainian analogue of Rublevka) there are football fields, courts and a network of internal roads. The area of ​​the Klyuev residential building is 2310 square meters. m
        Those. this is precisely the interest of Ukrainian oligarchs can be traced, nothing personal only business.
        Also known for behind-the-scenes intrigues in the Verkhovna Rada when you need to vote for the right law, give the required number of votes.
    8. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 18 September 2013 11: 43 New
      +9
      in Crimea, for example, approximately 70% of Russians are ethnic. not everywhere in Russia like that, actually. Crimeans do not need to explain. the only problem is that the authorities betrayed the country and the Slavs. and the Russians of Ukraine, in general, Ukrainians for the eyes of all declared.
      1. TRex
        TRex 18 September 2013 11: 58 New
        +5
        Come on, come on ... to Europe! I have a house in the Crimea, at the very blue sea. I want to move in my old age. I will squint at the hot sun, eat peaches ... I will buy leather pants with a neckline at the back, a Tatar skullcap, I will hang the EU flag over the toilet. The truth is not clear - in what colony Yanukovych will sit and where will the woman with the pigtail go?
        After all, they were always like this: "And eat a pine cone, and sit on ...". We must, we must learn.
        The house has gas heating. I will look for shales ...
    9. Sirocco
      Sirocco 18 September 2013 12: 07 New
      +6
      Quote: soldat1945
      Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to choose with whom it is,

      The whole trouble is that Yanukovych did not defend not the people of Ukraine, but defends the interests of entrepreneurs, i.e. heaps of Pharisees and silver coins that are bought with EU giblets. So while no change is foreseen. And Yanyk end partners live like in a movie. As the movie hero used to say My cow, I milk her.
      1. NEMO
        NEMO 18 September 2013 14: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: Sirocco
        The whole trouble is that Yanukovych did not defend not the people of Ukraine, but defends the interests of entrepreneurs, i.e. heaps of Pharisees and silver coins that are bought with EU giblets.

        Everything is very simple and obvious - Geyropa Ukraine needs only as a market for its stale goods, and in geopolitical terms - it is important not to join the TS in order to prevent its strengthening. hi
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 18 New
          -1
          Quote: NEMO
          Everything is very simple and obvious - Geyrope needs Ukraine only as a market for its stale goods

          I am always a "pearl" of the duality of such articles and comments on them) Ukraine has NO MONEY !!!) (And the people too !!!) So what will they sell there? If you try to sell a LOT of PORCHES in Zimbabwe, will they buy madly there?) (At EU prices)
          Decide already, diplomas ... if everything is bad in Ukraine and the money is dumb, who should buy far from cheap European goods? Which markets? For whom? laughing
          1. NEMO
            NEMO 18 September 2013 17: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: Corneli
            I am always a "pearl" of the duality of such articles and comments on them) Ukraine has NO MONEY !!!) (And the people too !!!) So what will they sell there? If you try to sell a LOT of PORCHES in Zimbabwe, will they buy madly there?) (At EU prices)

            Can you be more specific ??? In my comment, do you disagree with what ??
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 37 New
              +2
              Quote: NEMO
              Can you be more specific ??? In my comment, what do you disagree with ??

              Excuse me to repost again? Did I even give an "analogy / example" there? I will repeat again!
              If Ukraine (and its citizens) NO !!! MONEY!!! What sales market are you talking about? There is no money, the goods are not bought (neither "old", nor "fresh") If Ukraine, after the signing of the FTA, is still more automatic (in the economy), then WHO will buy EXPENSIVE / QUALITATIVE from the EU?
              P.S. This "chip" on the one hand, Ukraine (citizens) has no dough! and on the other hand, they are a SUPER market for EXPENSIVE (stale) goods from the EU! Well, nonsense !!! With your head (brain) think !!! How to cram something "unproductive"?) (In such articles, of course I manage ... but I'm talking about REALITY)
              1. Sirocco
                Sirocco 19 September 2013 02: 33 New
                +2
                Quote: Corneli
                What sales market are you talking about? No money, they don't buy goods (neither "old", nor "fresh")

                Remembering the 90s of my life in Ukraine, I remember how many food products were transported through Poland (cereals, sausages, confectionery, etc.). Do not forget that many software that produce food products have the hosts beyond the hill, and naturally all the equipment of these plants was delivered to Ukraine from abroad. And here you have spread demagogy, there is no money, there is no market. And eat that YOU specifically what?
          2. Stamp
            Stamp 18 September 2013 19: 56 New
            +6
            Quote: Corneli
            I am always a "pearl" of the duality of such articles and comments on them) Ukraine has NO MONEY !!!) (And the people too !!!) So what will they sell there? If you try to sell a LOT of PORCHES in Zimbabwe, will they buy madly there?)


            As for exactly Porsche in Kiev
            Only in Kiev, only 27 dealerships of them 4 official car dealerships and 23 independent car dealerships.


            http://porsche.autoportal.ua/automarkets/kiev.html

            And there are also Ferrari dealerships in Kiev.
            Автосалоны Ferrari in Kiev
            Only 9 dealerships, including 1 official car dealership and 8 independent car dealerships.

            http://ferrari.autoportal.ua/automarkets/kiev.html


            Автосалоны Bentley in Kiev

            Only 11 dealerships, including 1 official car dealership and 10 independent car dealerships.

            http://bentley.autoportal.ua/automarkets/kiev.html

            There are also car dealerships in other major cities. These car brands are not for the middle class.
            If they had not been bought why so many car dealerships?

            All the majors just ride them.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 18 September 2013 20: 11 New
              -2
              [quote = Stamp] [quote = Corneli] I have always been "pearl" by the duality of such articles and comments on them) Ukraine has NO MONEY !!!) (And the people too !!!) So what will they sell there? If you try to sell a LOT of PORCHES in Zimbabwe, will they buy madly there?) [/ Quote]
              As for exactly Porsche in Kiev
              Only in Kiev, only 27 dealerships of them 4 official car dealerships and 23 independent car dealerships.
              http://porsche.autoportal.ua/automarkets/kiev.html

              And what did YOU mean to say? Or how do YOUR data contradict what I wanted to convey? Perhaps you think that Porsche, Ferrari or Bentley are worse) are presented in Moscow? (than in Ukraine ... or Zimbabwe, which I cite as an example (in another true sense, but who cares))laughing And there, local patriotic oligarchs go to Lada Kalina? lol But I, in this, am EXTREMELY not sure! More precisely, I am sure that all sorts of "Bentleys" and so on ... in Moscow maybe more than in the countries of "manufacturers" (and Ukraine, in this regard, quietly rests)
              1. Stamp
                Stamp 18 September 2013 20: 29 New
                +2
                Quote: Corneli
                And what did YOU mean to say? Or how do YOUR data contradict what I wanted to convey?

                Just a statement of fact.


                More than a year ago there was a resonant VIP accident
                A large-scale accident occurred at the intersection of Khreshchatyk and Proreznoy: as a result of a collision of two expensive cars, the traffic controller standing at the intersection was injured, and, in addition to the cars responsible for the accident, 7 more cars were wrecked. According to preliminary data, as we were told in the traffic police of Kiev, the picture of the incident is as follows. The Bentley, which was driven by a guy, was moving at high speed towards the Maidan, on the other hand was a Mercedes. Both drivers for some reason ignored the prohibition signal of the traffic controller and collided. "Bentley" after the blow flew to the side, shot down a traffic policeman and rammed another 7 cars. The traffic controller was taken away by an ambulance, he had a broken leg, ”Natalya Storozhik, the head of the traffic police of Kiev, told us. But witnesses say that a girl was driving a Bentley. Non-simple car numbers - 7777


                Quote: Corneli
                Perhaps you think that Porsche, Ferrari or Bentley are worse) are presented in Moscow?

                I think that they are better represented because Moscow is one of the most expensive cities in terms of housing cost in the world. If you look, Moscow is a state in a state.
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 18 September 2013 20: 54 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Stamp
                  I think that they are better represented because Moscow is one of the most expensive cities in terms of housing cost in the world. If you look, Moscow is a state in a state.

                  Sorry, but this is not quite the answer to my question ... You just throw "events" and explain them in your favor ... Let me remind you ... the question was:
                  "If Ukraine (and its citizens) NO !!! MONEY!!! What sales market are you talking about? There is no money, the goods are not bought (neither "old", nor "fresh") If Ukraine, after the signing of the FTA, is still more automatic (in the economy), then WHO will buy EXPENSIVE / QUALITATIVE from the EU? "
                  And about who and where buys more Porsches, you can argue for a long time ...
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 18 September 2013 21: 14 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Corneli
                    And about who and where buys more Porsches, you can argue for a long time ...

                    Expensive cars are not an indicator. Look at the GDP of Ukraine and you will see the purchasing power of this country, although it is not large compared to the leaders, but for individual companies - the amounts are huge.
                  2. Stamp
                    Stamp 18 September 2013 21: 16 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Corneli
                    If Ukraine (and its citizens) DOES NOT! OF MONEY!

                    Most Ukrainians have little money, someone has a lot ten times higher incomes, this indicates a large stratification of the population in Ukraine and the prerequisites for instability.
                    Quote: Corneli
                    No money, they don't buy the product (neither "old" or "fresh"

                    This is demagogy of pure water, for stale goods, usually ski.dki and distribution, yes, as a rule, "stale" household appliances from Europe go to Ukraine, i.e. not top-end because this is beneficial for retail chains - when a new model comes out in Europe, the old ones go to Ukraine, for example.
                    No money - you can take a loan without a down payment and throw a lender, only a passport and code, especially someone else's with a pasted photo
                    Quote: Corneli
                    then WHO will cheto DEAR QUALITATIVE from the EU to buy?

                    The one who successfully buys now, despite any barriers - MAJOR.
                    1. Corneli
                      Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 24 New
                      0
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Expensive cars are not an indicator. Look at the GDP of Ukraine and you will see the purchasing power of this country, although it is not large compared to the leaders, but for individual companies - the amounts are huge.

                      Quote: Stamp
                      Most Ukrainians have little money, someone has a lot of dozens of times higher incomes, this indicates a large stratification of the population in Ukraine and the prerequisites for instability.

                      Initially, my answer was "ABOUT THE PURCHASING ABILITY OF THE HOMESTE-UKRAINIANS OF EXPENSIVE EU GOODS.!" But who is interested in this ?!)
                      But oraz, you have touched the enta topic ... COMPARE UKRAINE AND RUSSIA !! in purchasing LUXURY items at least parity (not in quantity, of course, but in TOTAL income)
                      P.S. Defender of "Russian oligarchs", "stamp", you better not write about this)
                      1. Stamp
                        Stamp 18 September 2013 22: 07 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Corneli
                        P.S. Defender of "Russian oligarchs", "stamp", you better not write about this)

                        Not a "stamp" but Stump, why such conclusions about the Russian oligarchs? it is not clear - apparently they did not understand each other.
                        better not write about this)
                2. MG42
                  MG42 18 September 2013 22: 35 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Stamp
                  But witnesses say that a girl was driving a Bentley. Non-simple car numbers - 7777

                  Four sevens, and this is the People’s Deputy gave his military girlfriend to steer along Khreshchatyk ..
                  With sevens I know who has three of them >> Patriarch Filaret on the six hundredth Mercedes >>
          3. tilovaykrisa
            tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 20: 10 New
            +5
            You don’t think about what you are going to buy there; you think that you can offer them to buy from you, otherwise if you don’t sell anything to them and you can’t buy anything from them. Personally, I don’t see any advantages (economic) for the EU to take you there, the slave forces are already in the form of Poles and Balts, and this suggests the only conclusion that Ukraine’s admission to the EU brings only political benefits for the EU, namely for NATO, this is another lever of pressure on the MSC in the form of deployment of military bases, missile defense systems and so on.
            And now look at the situation in Greece, it is very similar to the Ukrainian one, but for a couple of years the country has increased salaries and social guarantees (loans), but it has nothing to offer the EU in the form of goods and look at how Germany is "BEATING" the Greeks at the moment.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 20: 55 New
              +4
              Quote: tilovaykrisa
              You don’t think about what you are going to buy there; you think that you can offer them to buy from you, otherwise if you don’t sell anything to them and you can’t buy anything from them


              Some kind of bazaar logic - "... everything is so expensive in Moscow ....".
              1. tilovaykrisa
                tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 21: 04 New
                +1
                This is the logic of the world economy, or of the "matroskin from the cartoon" cat (to buy something, you need to sell something), and whether it is bazaar or market is not a question for me.
          4. Patriot.ru.
            Patriot.ru. 18 September 2013 21: 06 New
            0
            You will buy lard.
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 20: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: Sirocco
        The whole trouble is that Yanukovych did not defend not the people of Ukraine, but defends the interests of entrepreneurs, i.e. heaps of Pharisees and silver coins,

        Does Putin act differently?
    10. artemiy
      artemiy 18 September 2013 15: 31 New
      +5
      The President of Ukraine behaves like a capricious child! And the people are suffering!
    11. chushoj
      chushoj 18 September 2013 18: 39 New
      +1
      Ukraine has already made a choice today.
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. starshina78
      starshina78 18 September 2013 19: 36 New
      +2
      How obvious are the words of the American politician, adviser to all US Presidents - Zbigniew Brzezinski, who said that Ukraine should be torn from Russia, then Russia will not be so strong, but Ukraine will suffer, and in the future it will break up into three states: Crimea, East Ukraine and Galicia, but this is not so important - the main thing is to tear Ukraine away from Russia. And that’s all, as this herald from Washington said. And this is not good. This is bad.
    14. Hariva
      Hariva 18 September 2013 19: 40 New
      +3
      hey brethren Slavs for us Russian You are still not strangers!

      And the majority of Ukrainians treat us the same way. Let me give you a couple of concrete examples. Recently I visited the city of Dnepropetrovsk, and now the situation itself.
      I pay in the store, and by mistake instead of local cents I give our patch. Saleswoman - lady 50 years old:
      -ABOUT! Have you been to Russia?
      - Well no. I am visiting you.
      - What are you? Where are you from? And how are you? etc.
      I go to the gas station. Network of gas stations "Marshal" (I don't know whose brand it is). I leave the minimarket. The tanker is still a kid, about 25 years old:
      - Hello! Send greetings to Belgorod! (on numbers 32 region)
      How does he know? It seems and not border Kharkov.
  2. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 18 September 2013 06: 59 New
    +5
    Winter is coming soon. What will Ukrainians drown?
    1. borisjdin1957
      borisjdin1957 18 September 2013 07: 06 New
      14
      from Don
      As the GDP in Geyropa answered this question, there is a lot of firewood in Siberia! By the way, the increase in the price of gas consumed for the population of Ukraine will grow by 40 percent!
      1. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 49 New
        +4
        Do you seriously believe that this is good? The population is already not rich will suffer again.
      2. Corneli
        Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: borisjdin1957
        from Don
        As the GDP in Geyropa answered this question, there is a lot of firewood in Siberia! By the way, the increase in the price of gas consumed for the population of Ukraine will grow by 40 percent!

        Where did the promotion raise come from? Proof, at least possible, pliz?
        1. morpex
          morpex 18 September 2013 20: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Corneli
          Where did the promotion raise come from? Proof, at least possible, pliz?

          it’s already growing ... For a month and a half at gas stations with 4grn. 80 cop. has grown to 6 And the silly Azirov shouts that there are no prerequisites ...
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 03 New
            +1
            Quote: morpex
            it’s already growing ... For a month and a half at gas stations with 4grn. 80 cop. has grown to 6 And the silly Azirov shouts that there are no prerequisites ...

            Hmm ... first of all: "Prices for propane-butane in the largest AGZP chains during July 7-8 rose by 25-70 kopecks .... in the OKKO network, liquefied gas in the overwhelming majority of regions went up by 25-30 kopecks. - up to 6,10 UAH / l.
            The rise in gas prices in the WOG network was more noticeable - by 30-50 kopecks. The most common price for propane-butane in this network is 6,20 UAH / l .... "
            Let me remind you ... SchA SEPTEMBER 18! (And why should I remember about it now?) When was the price 4.8 UAH? And gas for the population ... this is not gas for a car ... this is gas for a rent), (you probably do not know)
        2. borisjdin1957
          borisjdin1957 19 September 2013 06: 53 New
          +2
          from Don. The government is preparing a 40% increase in gas prices for the population
          News / Digest 11.09.2013/2/XNUMX | XNUMX comments

          The Cabinet of Ministers is preparing a surprise for Ukrainians to start the heating season - another increase in the cost of a number of utilities. This was reported by "News of Donbass" Despite the regular promises of the authorities not to raise tariffs for housing and communal services, the government still plans to raise tariffs. The explanatory note to the relevant bill on improving relations in the field of heat supply refers to [...]
          Read more >
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    2. Egoza
      Egoza 18 September 2013 08: 22 New
      +7
      Quote: FC Skif
      Winter is coming soon. What will Ukrainians drown?

      Schools in the Chernihiv region will be heated independently - there is no money in the budget - deputy In the Kozeletsky district in the Chernihiv region, school principals were instructed to prepare for the heating season themselves. The district education department warned that the budget money for the beginning of the heating season (mid-October) will most likely not be received.
      “The teachers have started collecting money from the parents of the students for the purchase of coal and firewood,” said Yaroslav Demchenkov, a deputy of the Chernihiv Regional Council.
      Source: http://polemika.com.ua/news-126727.html#title
      xxxxx
      Well, apparently, we will all be there!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 08: 37 New
        +4
        Quote: Egoza
        "Teachers started collecting money from parents of students to buy coal and firewood,"

        Prospects for an agreement with the EU are becoming more rosy and embellished crying
      2. true love
        true love 18 September 2013 09: 49 New
        +2
        If you do nothing, we will.
      3. morpex
        morpex 18 September 2013 20: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: Egoza
        Schools in the Chernihiv region will be heated independently - there is no money in the budget - deputy In the Kozeletsky district in the Chernihiv region, school principals were instructed to prepare for the heating season themselves.

        So we have been heating the school for the second year at the expense of the village council. From the state, not a penny .. By the way, we replaced the old Sovdep boilers with new, pyrolysis boilers. One laying of coal or firewood is enough for 8-12 for hours. Savings, by the way, are crazy. And before that, the air was drowned .. ..
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 08: 36 New
      -2
      Quote: FC Skif
      Winter is coming soon. What will Ukrainians drown?

      Salom laughing
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 18 September 2013 15: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: FC Skiff
        Winter is coming soon. What will Ukrainians drown?

        Salom laughing

        Alexander! do not touch the fat! Ento our strategic stock!
        "Dnepropetrovsk scientists, developers of a new explosive, named"Ukrainian", we are convinced that it has no analogues anywhere in the world. It is much cheaper and more efficient than all the explosives that have been used for mining so far. According to scientists, Ukraiid, based on lard, over time it can completely replace TNT. "
      2. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 19 September 2013 03: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Salom

        Sadist belay Swing at the holy am Al in ridge Ukraine, all the ides have been transferred that there is no one to melt the stove? wassat
    4. MG42
      MG42 18 September 2013 10: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: FC Skif
      Winter is coming soon. What will Ukrainians drown?


      There is some truth in every joke >>

      Ukraine can use about a third of straw produced in the country for heating, thereby reducing the consumption of imported gas per year by 3 billion cubic meters, experts at the NTC Biomass are confident.


      http://korrespondent.net/business/economics/1366561-ukraina-mozhet-zamenit-solom





      oj-3-mlrd-kubometrov-gaza-v-god-eksperty

      Straw is a promising fuel for Ukraine. This was announced during a press conference in the Observer by the head of the Department of Thermophysical Problems of Bioenergy at the Institute of Technical Thermophysics of NAS of Ukraine Georgy Geletukha.
      According to the expert, “about a ton of straw is produced per ton of harvested grain”, more than 50 million tons of this material is produced annually in Ukraine.
      “We do not urge to burn all these 50 million tons of straw in boilers - this is wrong even from an environmental point of view,” Geletukha noted. At the same time, he considers it quite acceptable to spend about 15 million tons of straw for heating residential premises.

      As the expert explained, the calorific value of dry straw is 15-17 megajoules per kilogram - "this is about half the calorific value of natural gas." Thus, 15 million tons of straw is equivalent to 8 million cubic meters of gas - “approximately this amount is consumed by all our housing and communal services,” the expert recalled.


      http://tech.obozrevatel.com/technology/92510-na-solomu-mozhno-perevesti-vse-zhkh





      -ekspert.htm

      Ukraine plans to further reduce purchases of Russian gas to a record low for all the years of independence ... All types of alternatives to natural gas are being considered, even such an "exotic" ... well, the transfer of a CHP plant from natural gas to a water-coal mixture, electric heating Ukraine has an excess of generation from nuclear power plants ..
      1. aepocmam
        aepocmam 18 September 2013 15: 45 New
        +1
        If Ukraine begins to use straw for heating, the main thing is not to get carried away with this idea, otherwise it may happen that overproduction of wheat results and there are problems with its sale. After all, the markets are all divided and occupied.
      2. Corneli
        Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 28 New
        +2
        [quote = FC Skif] Winter is coming. What will the Ukrainians drown with? [/ Quote]
        [quote = Alexander Romanov] The prospects for an agreement with the EU are becoming more rosy and embellished crying [/ quote]
        [quote = MG42] [quote = FC Skif] Winter is coming. What will the Ukrainians drown with? [/ Quote]
        There is some truth in every joke >>
        [quote] Ukraine can use about a third of straw produced in the country for heating, thereby reducing the consumption of imported gas per year by 3 billion cubic meters, experts at the NTC Biomass are confident. [/ quote]
        http://korrespondent.net/business/economics/1366561-ukraina-mozhet-zamenit-solom


        In fact, PREPARE and even how (When signing 100 thousand milen%, there will be claims about gas and bubble ... they are NOT YET (waiting, "good" Gazprom people) But just a little ... I just amuse myself in advance ... I think here Hysterics will be !!! Suddenly it will become clear that Ukraine "stole", "underpaid" and so on ... 2 months to wait. And yes, given how much money was consumed during cheap gas in Ukraine and how much ... this is a lot of money " poor Gazprom "does not get (((
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 21: 06 New
          +5
          Quote: Corneli
          In fact, PREPARE and even how (When signing 100 thousand milen%, there will be claims about gas and bubble ... they are NOT YET (waiting, "good" Gazprom people) But just a little ... I just amuse myself in advance ... I think here Hysterics will be !!! Suddenly it will become clear that Ukraine "stole", "underpaid" and so on ... 2 months to wait. And yes, given how much money was consumed during cheap gas in Ukraine and how much ... this is a lot of money " poor Gazprom "does not get (((


          Yes, you just have a tantrum ... do not, do not cry.
          And believe me, it is not Moscow and Gazprom that are to blame for the fact that the salary is small, and the tariffs are high. In Russia, in this regard, the situation is slightly better.
          So, believe me, buying a cheaper "gas for heating" from the EU will not drastically reduce your costs. And the upcoming trade balance with the EU is not in favor of Ukraine (God forbid!) May lead to a situation where decisions about how much to pay state employees and what the tariff policy will be will not be decided in Kiev.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 42 New
            0
            Key phrases ..
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Yes, you just have a tantrum... do not, do not cry.
            And believe me, it is not Moscow and Gazprom that are to blame for the fact that the salary is small, and the tariffs are high.

            Quote: stalkerwalker
            . And the upcoming trade balance with the EU not in favor of Ukraine can lead (God forbid!) to a situation where decisions about how much to pay to state employees and what will be the tariff policy, will decide not in Kiev.

            MUCH MUCH more often you need to listen to Glazyev, there seems to be Surkov's VVP to this wretched loser, he added a few days ago!) And then Mr. bears ... it is unrealistic to comprehend (Even the BEING OF US DEMOCRACY !!! does not always look so stupid! Like the last "pearls" of Glazyev! It's just ... fantastic!)
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 22: 29 New
              +5
              Quote: Corneli
              MUCH MUCH more often you need to listen to Glazyev, there seems to be Surkov's VVP to this wretched loser, he added a few days ago!) And then Mr. bears ... it is unrealistic to comprehend (Even the BEING OF US DEMOCRACY !!! does not always look so stupid! Like the last "pearls" of Glazyev! It's just ... fantastic!)


              I do not listen to either Glazyev (and do not read him), nor Surkov. Enough for me information notes that all Ukrainian forum participants give.
              I regularly go to the dark side of the mother-in-law.
              And you don’t have to be a strong analyst to see and understand the situation in Ukraine.
              At the very least, comparing the information provided on TV in Russia and Ukraine, and "applying it on the spot" to what is happening both there and there, one can speak with a certain degree of confidence about what is happening.

              PS A earnest request - do not personally identify yourself, as well as the entire adequate Ukrainian people, with the government and the state. These are two Big Differences (as they say in Odessa).
              hi
  3. Normal
    Normal 18 September 2013 07: 01 New
    +5
    In general, fighting for the interests of Ukraine and the universal “trade world” in words, gentlemen Brock, Saryush-Wolski and their like-minded people are once again trying to draw the European Union, the Visegrad group and other structures into questionable political games that are not related to the true European interests countries and peoples.

    Each member of the European Union pursues its own personal interests. Only now is it customary to hide behind rhetoric about the common good and prosperity. But its shirt is closer to the body and this is not in doubt.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 18 September 2013 07: 06 New
      10
      Quote: Normal
      Each member of the European Union pursues its own personal interests.

      But why? They have one common idea. In no case to prevent the unification of Ukraine and Russia, they do not need strong neighbors.
      1. Normal
        Normal 18 September 2013 18: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Garrin
        In no case to prevent the unification of Ukraine and Russia, they do not need strong neighbors.

        And this is also their personal interest. The idea, of course, is common, but everyone has their own interest.
        drinks
    2. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 20: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: Normal
      Each member of the European Union pursues its own personal interests. Only now is it customary to hide behind rhetoric about the common good and prosperity. But its shirt is closer to the body and this is not in doubt.

      Is it different in the Customs Union? Kazakhstan is there for the prosperity of Belarus, and Russia is thinking about the good of the Kazakhs?
  4. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 18 September 2013 07: 03 New
    +7
    Games with zero result are only in sports. In politics, everything is more complicated.
    The movement of Ukraine towards the EU is inevitable because it is much more attractive, at least outwardly, for the most active part of Ukrainians. The passive part, which is the majority of Russians, will be simply drawn into. The EU will pull Ukraine towards itself already because it wants to stop Russian expansion. So here are the pluses on both sides. And the Ukrainian elite does not care about the secondary role of Ukraine in future relations with the EU.
    1. Arti
      Arti 18 September 2013 09: 51 New
      +2
      The problem of Ukraine is that the EU will pull them by the pocket, namely, it will give loans (this is more abrupt in the EU - "I love you") and they will shout that they are great.

      In fact, the EU does not have a prescription for saving Ukraine, but the Russian Federation has it - it is gas without duties and investments in strategic enterprises with cooperation in foreign markets.

      As usual, the EU will certainly throw a life buoy to Ukraine, but only Russia will drag them out of the water.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 18 September 2013 09: 55 New
        +4
        Quote: Arti
        The EU will certainly throw a life buoy to Ukraine,

        what a life buoy? !!! they will save themselves! All our stale goods and expired products will be shoved to us. But what they buy from us is a big question!
        The TS gives clear answers in numbers - what can Ukraine get. In the EU ... democracy and the rule of law ... European.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 52 New
          +2
          Quote: Arti
          The problem of Ukraine is that the EU will pull them by the pocket, namely, it will give loans (this is more abrupt in the EU - "I love you") and they will shout that they are great.

          As if Russia does not give loans and does not forgive debts (it’s not true for Ukraine ... North Korea, Algeria, Iraq, Syria, CYPRUS, Iceland ... "fraternal" are trying)
          Quote: Arti
          In fact, the EU does not have a prescription for saving Ukraine, but the Russian Federation has it - it is gas without duties and investments in strategic enterprises with cooperation in foreign markets.

          Don't be funny ... What is the "recipe"? Buy out everything that works (for the Russian oligarchs' own benefit) And close what is stopping them (the oligarchs)? (this is about "investment"). but about gas ... Gazprom will not give up BABLA !!! While there will be AT LEAST an opportunity!)
          Quote: Egoza
          what a life buoy? !!! they will save themselves! All our stale goods and expired products will be shoved to us. But what they buy from us is a big question!

          So why are you soaring? They won’t buy ANYTHING !!! BO NEMA PEAN !!!)
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 20: 58 New
        +2
        Can you as a Russian take a loan at 4% in Russia? Not? Strange, but Cyprus can take such a loan in Russia. (so as not to freeze money exported from Russia at their banks) And there are also interest-free loans and just help. And debt relief.
        Quote: Arti
        The problem of Ukraine is that the EU will pull them in its pocket, namely, it grants loans (
      3. morpex
        morpex 18 September 2013 21: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: Arti
        As usual, the EU will certainly throw a life buoy to Ukraine, but only Russia will drag them out of the water.

        Yeah. Wait.
        Former Minister of Economics and ex-deputy Vladimir Lanovoi does not believe in the influx of financial flows from the West in the event of signing the Association Agreement with the European Union, he said in a comment to the Commander-in-Chief.

        “For two or three years, we will still be in a state of stagnation, regardless of the signing or non-signing of the Association,” the ex-minister predicts.

        In his opinion, the IMF is not going to help the government, even if Ukraine joins the Association.

        “The financial issue is separate from the trade and political. And I don’t think that the EU will help - it will establish strict requirements for the Ukrainian side regarding the organization of the economy, foreign and domestic trade. Of course, centralized funds for regional and investment assistance to countries that are members of the EU can be created, but we are not members yet. Credit assistance could be provided to us, but in Europe the banking crisis and some major flows from there are hard to expect, ”Lanovoi said.
  5. Crocodile
    Crocodile 18 September 2013 07: 03 New
    +8
    Having made a political career on the plans for rapprochement with Russia, Ukrainian politicians, led by Mr. Yanukovych, unanimously decided to lie under a geyropu. Maybe they will hold a referendum, for the sake of appearances, but the result is already known - and who paid attention to the voice of the people during the partition of the USSR ...
    Indeed, the situation is such that, although most of Ukraine’s foreign trade falls on Russia, the EU is trying to tear Ukraine away from Russia at any cost.
    It is a pity for ordinary Ukrainians, but alas, these are the results of yellow revolutions and Maidan!
    And the political elite, so as not to lose their imaginary autonomy, can gay people give the people away for free, with giblets ...
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 18 September 2013 09: 50 New
      +4
      Quote: Crocodile
      Ukrainian politicians, led by Mr. Yanukovych, decided to lie down together under a geyropu.

      Infa slipped through that the geyropa threatened our "elite" to disclose all their European accounts, as well as to monitor the program for identifying "dirty money", i.e. about corruption and illegal income, for which Lazarenko was in the United States. And where is the honestly earned money? There was P. Poroshenko in the Swedish (or Swiss bank, I don’t remember exactly, which Russia bought), an account of 460 million euros was discovered, and poor Petya cannot explain the origin of this money to the new owners of the bank (Russia). So it is to our "leaders" And we were immediately turned towards the EU.
      1. avt
        avt 18 September 2013 10: 12 New
        +4
        Quote: Egoza
        Infa slipped through that the geyropa threatened our "elite" to disclose all their European accounts, as well as to monitor the program to identify "dirty money", i.e. about corruption and illegal income, for which Lazarenko was in the United States. And where is the honestly earned money?

        request Well, how did they want? Like "bank secrecy"? This is a universal means of education laughing Over there, Kasyanov, as the last hamster, performed here "oppositionist - a fighter against corruption", wandered around the rallies, until he worked for retirement, the owners were not released.
  6. shpuntik
    shpuntik 18 September 2013 07: 04 New
    +6
    It is not surprising that they have been tearing away Ukraine for a long time, they want our blood, Slavic, European ghouls. If Yanek goes to Europa, then he will be like Mazepa: defeat, anathema, and death. Here is a video about the artificial division of one nation.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 18 September 2013 08: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: shpuntik
      Here is a video about the artificial division of one nation.

      Thank you! I watched the whole movie with great attention. There are only emotions left, well ... I'll keep it to myself. I would give you ten pluses. There further on Yu-tube several more films. I WILL WATCH.
      THANKS BRO!
      1. Sergh
        Sergh 18 September 2013 09: 19 New
        +6
        Found here the expression of the FATHER, correctly said, in perfection, correctly:

      2. shpuntik
        shpuntik 18 September 2013 18: 17 New
        0
        Sergh (1) RU Today, 08:48 ↑
        Thank you! I watched the whole movie with great attention. There are only emotions left, well ... I'll keep it to myself. I would give you ten pluses. There further on Yu-tube several more films. I WILL WATCH.
        THANKS BRO!

        Sergey, please hi , glad that came in handy and that there is another like-minded person. I hope our people will gradually see, mature for the cause.

  7. andrei332809
    andrei332809 18 September 2013 07: 12 New
    +4
    Ukraine - EU: a zero-sum game for Kiev

    with zero, okay. high probability to leave minus
  8. vitek1233
    vitek1233 18 September 2013 07: 12 New
    +6
    EU is ready to embrace Ukraine and strangle crying
  9. awg75
    awg75 18 September 2013 07: 20 New
    +3
    will strip Ukraine as sticky --- for the American base will be built ....
    1. morpex
      morpex 18 September 2013 21: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: awg75
      will strip Ukraine as sticky --- for the American base will be built ....

      You are right. Neither Russia nor Europe are full subjects in relations with Ukraine. For Ukraine is the zone of influence of the United States. And they can rock the boat on our territory only with the consent of Washington. “We don’t see the gopher, but he is!” One of the proofs of the role of the States in the political life of Ukraine and the determination of its future is the trip of V. Klitschko to America to coordinate actions on coming to Power. After which he lost all interest in the post of mayor of Kiev. And not only Klitschko. And Yatsenyuk, even Tyagnibok, who regularly visits the US Embassy. Therefore, the choice of the president will definitely be the choice of a pro-American candidate.
      According to Yulia, too, is not unique. She is no longer pro-Russian. Those. and she will be a pro-American candidate if she gets freedom. This is our wealth of choice.
  10. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 18 September 2013 07: 22 New
    +5
    In geopolitics, weak-willed and weak torment.
    Russia is weak and weak-willed, so it’s still easy to torment it. Because of weakness and lack of will, parts of Russia do not strive for it and gladly allow themselves to seduce with fables about a sweet life.
    Here is Ukraine. She, like that donkey was hanged with a carrot in front of her eyes - fables about their exclusivity, antiquity and a certain European style, and now it scratches. Russia is famous, weak-willed and weak, with it it is boring and predictable. And then such a carrot in front of the nose ... European ...
    All this is sad, because the outcome is known in advance. sad
    1. 787nkx
      787nkx 18 September 2013 11: 19 New
      +2
      A calm and consistent respect and reckon with their opinion.
      The direction of development of possible cooperation with Ukraine has been set, the conditions are clear to all parties. The sharp movements of our opponents only emphasize the correctness of our course.
      In fact, the gap between our countries is impossible in principle. Lack of choice and annoys Ukrainian politicians, as this limits their independence.
      This topic has been successfully beaten by Western experts. But unlike Yanukovych, they are well aware that the Ukraine-Russia alliance cannot be destroyed in any format. And the West needs its flirtation with Ukraine to counterbalance Russia on other issues.
      In this situation, there is no need for Russia to twitch, the result is already known "Russians, Ukrainians, brothers forever."
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 18 September 2013 14: 11 New
        +2
        This topic has been successfully beaten by Western experts. But unlike Yanukovych, they are well aware that the Ukraine-Russia alliance cannot be destroyed in any format. And the West needs its flirtation with Ukraine to counterbalance Russia on other issues.

        Alexander!
        Everything you look balanced and calm, but so cloying, already on the verge of giving the wish for the reality.
        Nevertheless, I support your point of view, adjusted for mine. Our point of view is getting wider and deeper. smile soldier
  11. King
    King 18 September 2013 07: 25 New
    +3
    Let go of this topic already. the more she is protested in the media, the more Ukraine "breaks down like a girl," filling its own worth. let the politicians figure it out. and then we'll see how things turn out. Nobody talked about the Armenians, they calmly chose the vehicle for themselves and are satisfied with it.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 18 September 2013 17: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: King
      Let go of this topic already. the more she is protested in the media, the more Ukraine "breaks down like a girl," filling its own worth. let the politicians figure it out. and then we'll see how things turn out. Nobody talked about the Armenians, they calmly chose the vehicle for themselves and are satisfied with it.

      Are you talking about those ARMENIANS who at the same summit also want to sign an association agreement?)
      MB cheto has changed ... in 2 weeks ...
  12. Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 18 September 2013 07: 25 New
    +4
    The Ukrainian political leadership reminds me of JUDAH from KARIOT (two different halves of the attitude towards RUSSIA)
    Remember how KUCHMA said about the downed Russian plane in 2001 - KHE KHE HAPPENING DISASTERS AND SCARY (scoundrel) - killed 21 of our people and 55 Israelis (still haven't apologized)
    Further, Yushchenko carefully concealed the participation of his Buka operators against RUSSIA in 2008 (our people died again).
    Such trifles you can pick up a bucket and a full basket.
    I am not surprised by the behavior of the UKRAINIAN LEADERSHIP - on the one hand, they portray friendship with RUSSIA; ON THE OTHERS, THEY START TO SEND RUSSIA in full.
    1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 18 September 2013 07: 42 New
      +1
      And it reminds me of the idiot who saws the branch on which he sits !!! belay
      1. Bigriver
        Bigriver 18 September 2013 07: 56 New
        +5
        Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT
        And it reminds me of the idiot who saws the branch on which he sits !!! belay

        No laughing
        They sit completely in other places. Yanukovych is promoting the interests of his financial and industrial gang. The departure of Ukraine towards the EU is a classic version of oligarchic integration. This integration is needed by several FIGs of Ukraine. They are lobbying her. They, in general, have long bought property in Europe (firms and firms), having become rich by dividing Ukraine. Now they need the logic of doing business with their European assets.
        And they don't care about the rest of the "small" economy of the country. As well as its population.
        And Yanek .., well, Th Yanek request He is just a shout and a hired oligarch manager.
    2. Crocodile
      Crocodile 18 September 2013 08: 17 New
      +4
      This is somehow said loudly, the little thing has not yet grown tongue
      Quote: Lech s ZATULINKI
      I am not surprised by the behavior of the UKRAINIAN LEADERSHIP - on the one hand, they portray friendship with RUSSIA; ON THE OTHERS, THEY START TO SEND RUSSIA in full.

      But they can substitute their people, if only they could harm their neighbors ...
  13. Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer 18 September 2013 07: 50 New
    +4
    A sister with children and a native aunt live in my Odessa region. Really now we will be enemies at the whim of the ... politicians?
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 21: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      A sister with children and a native aunt live in my Odessa region. Really now we will be enemies at the whim of the ... politicians?

      What nonsense? And if my sister lived in the EU, would she be an enemy? Or in the USA?
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 18 September 2013 21: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        What nonsense? And if my sister lived in the EU, would she be an enemy? Or in the USA?

        It is not sad, but it is so, would be your (our) enemy, it was not necessary to leave for a hostile state.
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 19 September 2013 11: 47 New
          0
          Millions of Russians and Ukrainians live abroad. From this they did not stop being Russians and Ukrainians. I met many in Germany, France, England. In Dublin, I knew a guy from Peter. Member 1 Chechen. You can’t think so black and white. Crossed the border - the enemy. How many enemies are inside the country? Or are there all friends and brothers inside?
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 19 September 2013 13: 03 New
            0
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            You can’t think so black and white. Crossed the border - the enemy. How many enemies are inside the country? Or are there all friends and brothers inside?

            You can and NEED to think like that, then their children will be sent to Russia as spies, such enemies will find use.
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 19 September 2013 20: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              You can and NEED to think like that, then their children will be sent to Russia as spies, such enemies will find use.

              Tell me from which country they sent Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Chubais? And all the oligarchs are like local. And when did Dudaev, Raduyev, Basaev emigrate?
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 19 September 2013 21: 06 New
                0
                Quote: gladiatorakz
                Tell me from which country they sent Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Chubais? Yes, and all the oligarchs like local

                You still say that all the oligarchs are Russian.
                Quote: gladiatorakz
                And when did Dudaev, Raduyev, Basaev emigrate?

                For each "Dudayev" there were ten former migrants and other mercenaries.
  14. Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 18 September 2013 07: 55 New
    +4
    The old ensign, of course not to ordinary people in UKRAINE will never be enemies (I was there often during the Soviet era on business trips, very good people)
    But any political swindlers like KUCHMA or YUSHCHENKO will have a very bad attitude.
  15. My address
    My address 18 September 2013 07: 58 New
    +5
    I look at it a little differently:

    Where is the role of our ambassador? Why not fired the Kremlin, starting five years ago? Why not doing his job in a fraternal country? Who is this one? On whose background does Chernomyrdin look almost like Talleyrand (Napoleon’s MFA)?

    How? Zurab ambassador to Ukraine? Former minister of Ministry of Health and Social Development? This is a fiend, damned by medicine and pensioners ?! So, it remains to wait for Serdyukov or Livanov ambassadors in Belarus?
    1. xan
      xan 18 September 2013 15: 08 New
      -1
      Quote: My address
      I look at it a little differently:

      Where is the role of our ambassador? Why not fired the Kremlin, starting five years ago? Why not doing his job in a fraternal country? Who is this one? On whose background does Chernomyrdin look almost like Talleyrand (Napoleon’s MFA)?

      How? Zurab ambassador to Ukraine? Former minister of Ministry of Health and Social Development? This is a fiend, damned by medicine and pensioners ?! So, it remains to wait for Serdyukov or Livanov ambassadors in Belarus?

      What a cry for the whole site?
      As soon as a Ukrainian enters the elite, he becomes a Russophobe a priori for obvious reasons.
      Well, what can the ambassador do here, engage in campaigning? Rave.
  16. Sunjar
    Sunjar 18 September 2013 08: 08 New
    +4
    As borisjdin1957 said: "The price increase for consumed gas for the Ukrainian population will grow by 40 percent not far off!" Then Nezalezhnaya will light a cigarette in full. And at a low price, they whimpered all the time that it was too expensive, and after leveling the price for gas, they would start crying altogether. They will threaten to cut off gas to Europe, and then they will be sanctioned and accused of being undemocratic, and that they are generally in a subordinate state, and in addition to the Nord Stream will be put into operation. Then the people of Ukraine will really start to revolt and a lot of blood will be shed. The inaction of the people now will respond with social upheavals in the future.
  17. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 18 September 2013 08: 28 New
    +4
    Here are the gavnyuki .... these Geyevropeytsy ..... well, they are doing everything to layered Russia ..... and UKRAINE, AS A BLIND TEOENOK ..... DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THAT Europe PLAYS IT
  18. Egoza
    Egoza 18 September 2013 08: 31 New
    +2
    Well, someone who, and in the memory is already using aspirations in the EU to the fullest. We made a decision on taxation of migrants' remittances. It seems to be correct. Families here receive benefits like the poor, and "migrant workers" in Europe do not pay taxes, they only send money. BUT...
    "The deputies of the Lviv Regional Council appealed to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine with a request to abolish the taxation of migrants' remittances," the Polemics correspondent reports.
    As noted in the appeal, the initiative of the Ministry of Revenue and Duties to begin the real process of taxation of money transfers from abroad to Ukraine caused serious indignation among residents of Lviv. According to deputies, taxation of migrant remittances is impractical, first of all, from a moral point of view. Tigipko called on the deputies to unite "for the sake of our entrepreneurs" In particular, according to this initiative, Ukrainians whose family members work abroad should give 15-17% of the amount of money transfers to the budget. In the appeal, the deputies note: “It is known that the largest number of migrants is in the West of Ukraine, because every tenth resident of Western Ukraine went abroad in search of work in order to support his family. The authorities, which could not provide the population of Ukraine with jobs and decent wages of the European level, Having adopted this tax norm, he is trying to fill the state budget by increasing the taxation of salaries and remittances of those who work outside the country, that is, Ukrainian labor migrants. ”
    Source: http://polemika.com.ua/news-126915.html#title
  19. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 18 September 2013 08: 34 New
    +1
    As all this is already tired, let's present Ukraine with a territorial claim, let’s say to Crimea, and the road to the European Union will be closed to Ukraine until they deal with this claim. They will give Crimea, well, let them go on all 4 sides, Russia gets Crimea and gives Ukraine, as compensation, a statue of a bald idiot maize, and will not give up Crimea, goodbye to the European Union and dreams of a blue future and hello long and impoverished stagnation with an outstretched hand on the side of the road.
    1. My address
      My address 18 September 2013 09: 21 New
      +3
      Nice to read extraordinary, smart comm. And really, why not? hi
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 18 September 2013 18: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      As all this is already tired, let's present Ukraine with a territorial claim, let’s say to Crimea, and the road to the European Union will be closed to Ukraine until they deal with this claim. They will give Crimea, well, let them go on all 4 sides, Russia gets Crimea and gives Ukraine, as compensation, a statue of a bald idiot maize, and will not give up Crimea, goodbye to the European Union and dreams of a blue future and hello long and impoverished stagnation with an outstretched hand on the side of the road.

      Exactly!!! These are the "comments" and amaze! And now we read the article itself:
      "... In Europe, you can now hear Moscow's accusations of anything: either in an effort to restore control over Ukraine a la USSR, then in the intention to tear off Crimea from her, then in attempts to confront the Ukrainian-speaking west and the Russian-speaking east of a single country. ... "
      Apparently EU politicians are reading this site!) And on the basis of the comments of Russian patriots they make decisions (damn inadequate ()))
  20. mak210
    mak210 18 September 2013 09: 01 New
    +5
    The "big brother" complex still plays in you all. We are equal, let them do what they want, we must treat Ukraine like any other EU country. Everyone understands that with its accession to the EU, all the benefits (and do they actually exist?) Will disappear, why scare you like punks at the entrance?

    It is time to understand that she will not join the TS, and nowhere to join. With Belarus, every day, then a scandal. They caught a flock of swindlers, who, I think, no one doubts, our economic sanctions have begun. Well, actually! Several Jews and Lezghin quarrel over Russian and Belarusian. Trying to dictate dad what to do, it’s just an insult. At the same time, we do not notice how Russians are being ousted from all leading posts in Kazakhstan, slowly turning into second-class people. And after that, Ukraine should like a donkey for a carrot?
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 18 September 2013 13: 31 New
      +6
      Please do not panic. There is no scandal with Belarus, no one quarreled, on the contrary, Onishchenko was shut up, Rossneft promised deliveries instead of Transneft, even Miller came to visit the AHL, they all settled for good.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 14: 35 New
        +7
        Quote: Max Otto
        There is no scandal with Belarus, no one quarreled, on the contrary, Onishchenko was shut up, Rossneft promised deliveries instead of Transneft, even Miller came to visit the AHL, they all settled for good.


        Duc ... it was clear who and why fanned the hype and tantrum.
        Old Man only bow ... hi
  21. avt
    avt 18 September 2013 09: 14 New
    +7
    Quote: mak210
    The "big brother" complex still plays in you all. We are equal, let them do what they want, we must treat Ukraine like any other EU country. Everyone understands that with its accession to the EU, all the benefits (and do they actually exist?) Will disappear, why scare you like punks at the entrance?

    I will clarify. The "elder brother" complex is practically obsolete and is supported only by Ukraine itself. It is very convenient when they are treated like other EU members, to shout about the "infringement" of their independence, which is actually the article. And we cannot be equal in principle. If we become, at the call of our liberoids like Gozman, equal, then it will no longer be Russia, but something else, petty-grained. Well, for those who want "equality" in the EU - look at what they do with Greece, but what about it, how Italy was flattened by appointing a "crisis manager" to it "bypassing all" democratic procedures "such as elections, it happened quite recently, remember ...
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 18 September 2013 18: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: avt
      I will clarify. The "elder brother" complex is practically obsolete and is supported only by Ukraine itself. It is very convenient when they are treated like other EU members, to shout about the "infringement" of their independence, which is actually the article. And we cannot be equal in principle. If we become, at the call of our liberoids like Gozman, equal, then it will no longer be Russia, but something else, petty-grained. Well, for those who want "equality" in the EU - look at what they do with Greece, but what about it, how Italy was flattened by appointing a "crisis manager" to it "bypassing all" democratic procedures "such as elections, it happened quite recently, remember ...

      Dear, how is it possible in one short comment to contradict yourself? belay
      You have: "The complex ,, older brother" is practically obsolete "and then" And we cannot be equal in principle "And who you" can be "? Or what is it then? (Well, if you are not" older brothers ")
      It's simple !!! THE ARTICLE IS DESCRIBED !!! ALL YOUR COMMENTS !!! (only in the form of some kind of "ridiculous" fears of Ukraine and the type of "indignation" to this EU) And the truth is presented as "fantasies and fears of an inadequate Ukraine!" and THIS AGAIN, I read the comments ... the same thing ... people stupidly in UPOR do not see what is written) Affiget!
      1. avt
        avt 18 September 2013 19: 23 New
        +4
        Quote: Corneli
        Dear, how is it possible in one short comment to contradict yourself?

        Why is this? Everything is quite logical. Russia is quite a self-sufficient state for itself, even in the form in which it remained after the defeat of the USSR and all attempts of liberoids in power. And we cannot be equal either in resources or in territory, all the more so that over the years of our independence and your independence you have lost more than we do. So your attempts and demands to become on a par, let's say, are not entirely adequate. Well, try to be not something on an equal footing, but at least to learn what the GDP in Syria did. Well, at least send Zaporozhye and Ukraine’s circle to the Mediterranean Sea, if not together with us, then at least in support of common people. But you will still have a chance to convince us of our "ignorance" if joining the European Union to stand on a par with Germany, or France, on the economic and political level, although this is already fantastic, because even Turkey it does not include it and Ukraine is not put on a par with Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, only "associate". It will be interesting to watch how you will be presented to them to throw about equality there, independence. That's something that reminds me of all this the Baltic states, though in fairness it should be noted that they initially did not pose a superpower and specifically crawled under the new owners so that from behind their backs from Russia that then require. But even here it turned out that business is nothing personal. Remember the history of Nord Stream. It took and VVP agreed with EQUAL partners in spite of the howling of the Balts and the noble nobles, the latter also thought that they were participants in the Great Game, but no, only its figures. So Ukraine has now smoothly passed into the category of figures. Maybe you had a chance to get into the players, which I personally doubt very much, but it was lost by your leadership and I believe it seriously and for a long time, and maybe forever.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 18 September 2013 19: 58 New
          -1
          Quote: avt
          This is why? Just everything is quite logical

          Your logic ... I have already described ... as "pretending" and even further only to be confirmed:
          Quote: avt
          And we cannot be equal in either resources or territory, all the more so since during the years of our independence and your independence you have lost more than we do. So your efforts and demands to become on a par, well, let's say, are not quite adequate. Well, try not to be on equal terms, but at least to graduate from what the GDP in Syria did.

          I didn't seem to talk about "equal resources or territories") And what about "lost", are you kind of the legal successors of the USSR? Grit "attempts and demands", YOU, excuse me for the truth, AND NEXT TO THE DEMANDS AND OPPORTUNITIES OF THE USSR WERE NOT BELOW! Though their type is "receivers" (in contrast to Ukraine). And about the "chebucheniya" in Syria, personally, I am the current RAD! That Russia is gaining status there (although, honestly, I don’t understand why the United States is so ... afraid). But what does Ukraine have to do with it? We are not Poland and not "small but brave" Georgia ... It seems like FRIENDSHIP and PARTNERSHIP with Russia has not been canceled! (Except for Russia itself ... perhaps) The fact that Ukraine is just a "figure" I do not dispute ... but "figures" are different ... And about the Nord Stream, you said nothing at all ... I wrote it off and xs what will be further there)
          1. avt
            avt 18 September 2013 20: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: Corneli
            YOU, excuse me for the truth, AND YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE DEMANDS AND OPPORTUNITIES OF THE USSR! Though their type is "receivers" (in contrast to Ukraine).

            request Eka was enough, but where and when did I claim that today's Russia is equivalent to the USSR ??? We now have "Versailles" like the Germans after the lost World War I. Kurginyan well noticed it. Even the newly created states - the former Soviet republics, surprisingly accurately created our western borders, prescribed to Russia by President Wilson and his adviser Texas Colonel Hauser, I think.
            Quote: Corneli
            .. It seems like no one has canceled FRIENDSHIP and PARTNERSHIP with Russia

            Yes, for God's sake, who is against it? I don’t think so. It’s only necessary to clarify who and what it means, well, gas there at what price, at least, well, other very specific points, well, so that Onishchenko should not be bothered for nothing, tea and a boy, all the same age . So that it was clear what was at stake.
            Quote: Corneli
            but the "figures" are different.

            It happens that a pawn falls into the queens, or some other piece becomes, but it is decided by the player who brought the pawn to the edge and it’s stupid to think that she herself got there, well, it's really fantastic if the pawn thinks about it.
            Quote: Corneli
            And as for the Nord Stream, you generally said nothing ... I unsubscribed and xs there will be further)

            There will definitely be gas there. Here's to whom and at what price, and when - the question is for the Gazprom leadership. Could Julia Grigyan tell, but not in the aisles, she’s sitting.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 16 New
              0
              Quote: avt
              request Eka was enough, but where and when did I claim that today's Russia is equivalent to the USSR ??? We now have "Versailles" like the Germans after the lost World War I. Kurginyan well noticed it. Even the newly created states - the former Soviet republics, surprisingly accurately created our western borders, prescribed to Russia by President Wilson and his adviser Texas Colonel Hauser, I think.

              Sometimes it’s like listening to you ... it’s even EVEN equal, or even cooler) And your comparisons with the Kimito texas colonels ... xs what are you talking about (
              Quote: avt
              Yes, for God's sake, who is against it? I don’t think so. It’s only necessary to clarify who and what it means, well, gas there at what price, at least, well, other very specific points, well, so that Onishchenko should not be bothered for nothing, tea and a boy, all the same age . So that it was clear what was at stake.
              Quote: Corneli

              Oh ... YOUR "not a boy" Onishchenko, as a boy who stood up against Belarus, jumped (how was the current needed ... and where does the "bad" Ukraine?)) So ... how will the Russian oligarchs need it (oh , pardon STATE INTERESTS) laughing and they will remember the "koschee immortal")
              Quote: avt
              It happens that a pawn falls into the queens, or some other piece becomes, but it is decided by the player who brought the pawn to the edge and it’s stupid to think that she herself got there, well, it's really fantastic if the pawn thinks about it.

              Surprise me ... who do you think Russia is? (figure? player?))
              Quote: avt
              There will definitely be gas there. Here's to whom and at what price, and when - the question is for the Gazprom leadership. Could Julia Grigyan tell, but not in the aisles, she’s sitting.

              And it sits right ... it's a pity that they planted it late! but that Russia is soaring gas with its "fascists")))) Nu-Nu ... You are glad about it ?!
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 18 September 2013 21: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Corneli
            YOU, excuse me for the truth, AND YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE DEMANDS AND OPPORTUNITIES OF THE USSR! Though their type is "receivers" (in contrast to Ukraine).

            Let me explain on my fingers, Russia - 140 million people, the Warsaw Pact countries - 350 million people, roughly speaking, the power of Russia against the USSR fell two and a half times, so Russia did not lose its strength, we were just betrayed by the allies who, without "PAPKI" "were naturally blown away.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 56 New
              -1
              Quote: Setrac
              Let me explain on my fingers, Russia - 140 million people, the Warsaw Pact countries - 350 million people, roughly speaking, the power of Russia against the USSR fell two and a half times, so Russia did not lose its strength, we were just betrayed by the allies who, without "PAPKI" "were naturally blown away.

              A very strange "explanation" of the USSR was building NATO and supporting the economies of the Warsaw Treaty countries and the republics of the USSR ... And then bam! and it’s gone ... and the United States alone builds everyone!) Do not throw a "raspaltsovka" and people reach out to YOU! however, YOU know better ...
              P.S. off, tired of arguing! (Opponents do not read either articles or their comments ..., xs why ... 20 times to rewrite / post the same thing ... tiring (M. B. the desire to wake up tomorrow ... to answer. ..
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 18 September 2013 22: 33 New
                +1
                Quote: Corneli
                A very strange "explanation" of the USSR built NATO and supported the economies of both the Warsaw Treaty countries and the USSR republics ...

                Build - it is said loudly, the USSR was surrounded by the bases of NATO and the USA, and not vice versa.
                Quote: Corneli
                Do not throw "raspaltsovka" and people reach for YOU!

                Like you? God forbid!
        2. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 18 September 2013 21: 12 New
          -1
          Quote: avt
          , the more so since during the years of our independence and your independence you have lost more than us.

          Is this your subjective opinion? Or media analysis?
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 18 September 2013 21: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: Corneli
        Dear, how is it possible in one short comment to contradict yourself?

        It is not Russia that has a "big brother" complex, but Ukraine has a "younger brother" complex. Besides, no matter how hard you puff, one dollar is not equal to eight and one hundred and forty is not equal to forty-four.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 33 New
          0
          Quote: Setrac
          It is not Russia that has a "big brother" complex, but Ukraine has a "younger brother" complex. Besides, no matter how hard you puff, one dollar is not equal to eight and one hundred and forty is not equal to forty-four.

          MMM ... I somehow did not understand what are YOU about?) Explain ...
          P.S. they gave me a warning ... "about drug addicts" ... (but I want to repeat it AGAIN (reading such posts ...
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 18 September 2013 22: 01 New
            +3
            Quote: Corneli
            MMM ... I somehow did not understand what are YOU about?) Explain ...

            I will explain if you want to understand.
            So the population of Russia is 140 million (roughly), of Ukraine - 45 million (you can take another parameter, it doesn't matter). Do we have equality? Based on equality, we divide 200 million dollars equally, 100 million for Russia and 100 million for Ukraine, but then ONE Russian will receive less than one dollar, and ONE Ukrainian more than two and a half, like equality, but the Ukrainian turns out to be more equal than the Russian. So with powers, if powers are delegated equally, then one Ukrainian will have three and a half times more powers than one Russian. Therefore, equality is beneficial to "small" in reality equality - the distribution of rights in proportion to the population, economy, resources.
  22. Mhpv
    Mhpv 18 September 2013 09: 30 New
    +1
    among the main players by tradition are Germany and Poland - states that played, to put it mildly, an ambiguous role in the history of Ukraine ...

    Germany probably forgot how it acted:
    1887 - 1894gg. Relations between Germany and Russia continued to deteriorate. Bismarck forbade a German bank to issue loans against Russian government securities. In 1887, Russia increased duties on the import of goods from Germany, and Germany - on the import of Russian products. Soon, the ongoing Russian-German customs conflicts escalated into a real customs war. This is not surprising: under Alexander III, customs policy noticeably turned from moderate protectionism to enhanced customs protection. Germany, which occupied in the 70 of the XIX century. the first place in the import of cars, chemicals and wool into Russia was painfully taken by the introduction of a new customs course. She responded with a ban on the import of Russian cattle into the country, and after that set duties on bread imported from Russia. Bismarck's agricultural protectionism aimed at exporting German bread, meat, milk became a strong blow to the Russian budget, as bread has long been the main subject of Russian exports.

    So Russia is not a pioneer in such principles of upholding its interests
  23. Old skeptic
    Old skeptic 18 September 2013 09: 42 New
    +1
    Ukraine, like a girl. Stop breaking her and she herself will run over.
    The bigger the girl we are the smaller
    All the less she is us.
  24. eplewke
    eplewke 18 September 2013 10: 28 New
    +2
    I don't even want to write anything ... The Ukrainian people would be sorry. Politicians. Crumble Ukraine after all, "bent" politicians ...
  25. sop.ov
    sop.ov 18 September 2013 10: 33 New
    0
    Indeed, the Russian authorities on August 14 temporarily tightened the customs regime on the border with Ukraine, but did so in strict accordance with the norms of the European Union itself. Cargoes are now being inspected, and questionable samples taken for additional examination - in those cases and in the volumes in which this is done in EU member states.
    Complete nonsense !!! The European Union has never applied to all, without exception, Ukrainian exporters of such customs inspections as their native Russia did. It is regrettable, but European customs officers do not fulfill political orders and there are neither Rostekhnadzor nor Onishchenko in the European Union.
  26. sop.ov
    sop.ov 18 September 2013 10: 43 New
    +3
    In recent months, the European Union has been playing more and more vigorously the “Ukrainian card”, and Germany and Poland are traditionally the main players, states that have played, to put it mildly, an ambiguous role in the history of Ukraine ...
    Yeah ... And Ukraine, together with Germany, built the Nord Stream, so that Ukraine would steal less gas from Germany for Gazprom fool
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 18 September 2013 18: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: sop.ov
      In recent months, the European Union has been playing more and more vigorously the “Ukrainian card”, and Germany and Poland are traditionally the main players, states that have played, to put it mildly, an ambiguous role in the history of Ukraine ...
      Yeah ... And Ukraine, together with Germany, built the Nord Stream, so that Ukraine would steal less gas from Germany for Gazprom fool fool

      EVEN MORE! only forum users, AGAIN forget some facts:
      "In early September 2005, during the visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Germany, an agreement was signed on the construction of the North European Gas Pipeline (NEGP), a gas pipeline between Russia and Germany under the Baltic Sea.
      The new gas pipeline is expected to become a key factor influencing policy in the region. The signing of the agreement actually means the conclusion of a political union between Russia and Germany. Baltic countries, Poland and Byelorussiahowever, opposed the implementation of this project. So, the president of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko called the construction of the North European Gas Pipeline (NEG) “Russia's most stupid project”
      "Nord Stream (English Nord Stream, formerly the North European Gas Pipeline) is the main gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, running along the bottom of the Baltic Sea. The Nord Stream gas pipeline is the longest underwater gas export route in the world. Owner and operator - company Nord Stream AG.
      Russia, Germany, Holland and France are participating in the project "
      "Shareholders Nord Stream AG:
      «Gazprom"- 51%
      Wintershall, BASF division - 15,5%
      E.ON Ruhrgas, Division E.ON - 15,5%
      Gasunie, the only operator of Dutch gas transportation networks - 9%
      GDF Suez, representing the interests of France - 9% "
      "The chairman of the company's shareholder committee is Gerhard Schroeder, former chancellor of Germany. Managing Director - Matthias Warnig
      Board members are:
      Gerhard Schroeder, Former Chancellor of Germany, Chairman of the Board
      Alexey Miller, Chairman of the Board of Executive Directors, Gazprom
      Alexander Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Board of Executive Directors of Gazprom and General Director of Gazprom Export
      Vlada Rusakova, Member of the Board and Head of Strategic Development, Gazprom
      Nikolai Dubik, member of the management committee and head of the legal department of Gazprom.
      Eggert Foscherau, Deputy Chairman of the Board of Executive Directors and Human Resources Director at BASF AG
      Rainier Sweetserloot, Chairman of the Board Wintershall AG
      Burkhard Bergmann, board member of E. ON AG and chairman of the board of E. ON Ruhrgas AG
      Hans-Peter Floren, Chairman E. ON Ruhrgas AG Transport and Co.
      Marcel Kramer, Chairman of the Executive Board and CEO N.V. Gasunie Nederlandse "
      From "such x ... I'm a baby" ...
      1. avt
        avt 18 September 2013 20: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: Corneli
        For example, President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko called the construction of the North European Gas Pipeline (NEGP) “Russia's most stupid project”

        He called it. And then he held the pipe as the leadership of Ukraine, but after they had settled the issue of property, I was quite satisfied with the volumes and price received. Even the current potash hostage did not interfere. Dvorkovich tried to play on the pipe, " he put places and Miller went to Batka. It will be necessary and he will receive a second thread, especially if the Poles will not fool around like Lithuanians, and they do not need this campaign. But these are Russian affairs with Batka of the Customs Union and those guys from Germany, representatives of the main holder of the package shares of the Closed Joint Stock Company "European Union"
  27. nikcris
    nikcris 18 September 2013 10: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: sop.ov
    It is not regrettable, but European customs officers do not fulfill political orders and there are neither Rostekhnadzor nor Onishchenko in the European Union.

    They have everything. And in much more sophisticated forms. And among themselves they are fighting for the sake of grandmothers not sickly. Either cucumber-tomato scandals, then wine, then pork-chicken wassat
  28. mithridate
    mithridate 18 September 2013 10: 55 New
    +1
    Europe is a clear loss for Ukraine
  29. slacker
    slacker 18 September 2013 11: 06 New
    +4
    If the Ukrainian leadership falls under the EU, then Putin will be forced to cut all the oxygen hoses to bed with the Ukrainian patient-economy. Not to understand this is simply the height of stupidity on the part of Yanuk and all other Ukrainian political camarilla.
    1. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 53 New
      +3
      And they do not care, they got a denyuzhku and good, the bottom line is that they are all temporary workers and do not plan to live in the country that they are killing.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 18 September 2013 19: 29 New
      -1
      Quote: Loafer
      If the Ukrainian leadership falls under the EU, then Putin will be forced to cut all the oxygen hoses to bed with the Ukrainian patient-economy. Not to understand this is simply the height of stupidity on the part of Yanuk and all other Ukrainian political camarilla.

      Hmmm ... did it ever occur to you that the Camarilla was not really stupid? And if, after all the "cuts" and impressions of "what will be", the oligarchs still stick to the EU !? Why are you asking? What is it that the Ukrainian oligarchs do not like so much in the Customs Union? That they are ready to buy gas for xs EVEN HIGHER (though where?) Prices. To ... ing 35% of Russian exports (as it has been written here more than once, we will not sell anything in the EU ... but in Russia we will stop selling) I also don’t understand why the oligarchs need this ... In general, explain to me the wretched, the meaning of actions ..According to the Russian media and the opinions of Russian members of the forum, the Ukrainian oligarchs are just a bunch of crazy people, for some reason striving for the EU ... But it's just hard to believe that ALL of them are such straight fools ... They know how to count money (and very well) and this is not 1-2 chelas ... that's basically EVERYTHING! oligarchs of Ukraine. meaning to them, as idiots to go broke? if you can get rich?
      1. avt
        avt 18 September 2013 20: 45 New
        +3
        Quote: Corneli
        According to the Russian media and the opinions of Russian members of the forum, the Ukrainian oligarchs are just a bunch of crazy ones, for some reason aspiring to the EU ... It's just that you can hardly believe that ALL of them are so direct fools ... They know how to count denyuzhu (and very good) and this is not 1- 2 chelas ... that's essentially ALL! oligarchs of Ukraine. meaning to them, how do idiots go broke? if you can get rich?

        Well, on the forum, I definitely didn’t meet with statements about the fact that they ..... There was a good one comment, capacious and accurate. They convert Ukraine itself into a cache, the whole, with the people and the land, well, in this they are no different from our own huts.
    3. morpex
      morpex 18 September 2013 21: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: Loafer
      then Putin will be forced to cut all the oxygen hoses to bed with the Ukrainian patient-economy. Not to understand this is simply the height of stupidity on the part of Yanuk and all other Ukrainian political camarilla.

      I will add. By signing the association Ukraine will cross the red line, Russia will be untied, from now on, Europe will be responsible for all the successes of Ukraine.
      There was no whip yet, while there were only gingerbread cookies !!!!
      So Putin will put an end to Ukraine, aiming at the complete collapse of the Ukrainian economy by squeezing Ukraine out of the markets of the CU and the CIS, and in order to get the result you have to hit hard and for a short period of time.
      Of course, I could be wrong too, time will tell, and soon.
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 18 September 2013 21: 30 New
        -2
        Quote: morpex
        I will add. By signing the association Ukraine will cross the red line, Russia will be untied, from now on, Europe will be responsible for all the successes of Ukraine.
        There was no whip yet, while there were only gingerbread cookies !!!!
        So Putin will put an end to Ukraine, aiming at the complete collapse of the Ukrainian economy by squeezing Ukraine out of the markets of the CU and the CIS, and in order to get the result you have to hit hard and for a short period of time.
        Of course, I could be wrong too, time will tell, and soon.

        CONSTANT you are delusional! Do you even understand the concept of "carrot and stick"?) TO PLACE A CROSS IS NOT A GINGERBREAD OR WHIP) THIS IS A FULL PPC! Like HOLI-VAR! And hey they beat ... HIT ... and that's it ... then there will be no need to talk about the "brothers" ... everything will be said and shown! (FULLY! Further, except for a nuclear war, there will be nowhere to go)
        1. morpex
          morpex 19 September 2013 00: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: Corneli
          STATING you rave!

          Why am I raving? I just think so. I said that I could be wrong. You have a different point of view on what is happening, but I’m not saying that you are talking nonsense. Once again I will say - time will tell, and soon ..
  30. sop.ov
    sop.ov 18 September 2013 11: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: nikcris
    They have everything.

    I do not argue. But no one unloads wagons and cars at customs, does not recount, and does not outweigh.
    1. washi
      washi 18 September 2013 13: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: sop.ov
      Quote: nikcris
      They have everything.

      I do not argue. But no one unloads wagons and cars at customs, does not recount, and does not outweigh.

      This is because they have so far lacked intelligence to mask boxes with one product of another, more valuable. Although Romania has already noted the sale of venison under the guise of beef.
  31. Cristall
    Cristall 18 September 2013 11: 40 New
    +2
    already wrote that he was arguing with one of the supporters of the EU (he is ready to kill his economy and with those achievements that he can be proud of for the sake of the new) he did not provide data on economic feasibility. The slogans are yes, and all the politicians that explained the reasons - no one brought what we will live for. Some slogans (very similar to 91)
    but the nail is why the people did not so zealously support the referendum and many are against the CU (not even for the EU but purely against the CU morally) -the last trade war has begun (50 people have already been fired from candy, and 400 are expected to be cut)
    this was the strongest argument in favor of the EU. Plus promises to help with these "wars", although Ukraine did not retaliate against Russian goods. Did not touch the fleet and the base as usual ...
    I have a clear understanding of what exactly the BB + FY + EU clearly worked together. Having sold the solution from the bottom to the top and the outside.
    You may disagree, but it was the mutual decision of all parties that led to this. No one asked the opinion of the people of Ukraine (except for paid social reports for 2000 thousand respondents)
    The referendum was banned (although it is still in force), but few people vote anyway - the last trade war "killed" many pro-Russian-minded people in the East (losses, dismissed, curtailing of prospects exactly there and not in the West, where no one has lost anything). tendencies of supporters, their number increased sharply after the events of the summer. Accurately on the eve of signing!
    Of course, I voted in a referendum. But 24 thousand voters so far are not enough.
    http://referendum2013.in.ua/
    1. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 18 September 2013 11: 57 New
      +7
      This is not a trade war, it’s just a business, entrepreneurs in Ukraine are accustomed to the fact that business with Russia is carried out in a lightweight form (also customs) and now you have to conduct normal tough business and there is nothing personal here.

      When joining the EU, Ukraine will encounter a European style of doing business without any concessions and then there will be even greater reductions and layoffs.
    2. washi
      washi 18 September 2013 13: 17 New
      +3
      We have nowhere to put our sweets. Previously, almost every regional center had a factory. In the 90s, many went for scrapping.
    3. Luna
      Luna 18 September 2013 17: 57 New
      +3
      Russia is not obliged to feed you on the way to the EU. YOU have shown what will happen after the signing of the Agreement, YOU have decided that Russia is at war with you.
      Well, YOU made your choice yourself, YOU should slurp it.
    4. go
      go 18 September 2013 23: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Cristall
      already wrote that he was arguing with one of the supporters of the EU (he is ready to kill his economy and with those achievements that he can be proud of for the sake of the new) he did not provide data on economic feasibility. The slogans are yes, and all the politicians that explained the reasons - no one brought what we will live for. .
      http://referendum2013.in.ua/


      It is unfortunate that many Ukrainians do not understand that from integration into the EU they will just cease to exist as an independent state. They are now selling it all in a beautiful European wrap, they will start up without a visa to study and work in Western European enterprises (as a rule, low-skilled truth). They think they will be considered equal there ... I recall in this sense the words of my Romanian acquaintance who tells that after joining the EU, they receive nothing more from the EU than directives on how they need to live and work. At the same time, these directives help Western companies to develop their business essno there. While she can’t buy herself a mob. a phone with a contract in Germany with your Romanian passport ... they just don’t sell it.

      The EU needs Ukraine within the framework of the old Roman principle - divide and conquer. The tendency to divide and govern Eastern European peoples has long been in use. More precisely, Ukraine is needed as a source of cheap labor for Western European companies, a source of natural resources and a duty-free and controlled sales market. If Ukraine enters the EU, it can be forgotten about its high-tech industries - do you think someone in Europe needs to create a competitor? For them, the main thing is jobs at home, i.e. orders and markets. No, of course, new technologies will come to Ukraine, and possibly also production, only under what brand? :) Yes, and ordinary production, for example, the food industry, in which Ukraine is strong and what no one needs to hope for there. No EU or WTO will help - they simply will not be allowed to enter the market and that’s it! And no one can blather. Then come Nestle and craft food and goodbye. A simple example: you will not find goods from neighboring Poland in Germany, although everything is cheaper there. Although they have long been in the EU. They are simply not there! I'm not talking about all sorts of Romania and Ukraine ... Now, of course, Ukraine will be rolled off money on credit, which it can never repay, that is. there will be a Greek scenario with complete subordination of the economy to Brussels. On the other hand, the oligarchs will earn on this, only if they care about the development of the country.

      Paradoxically, the only option for the development of Ukraine as an independent economy is eastward cooperation. In the EU, nobody needs ANs, Nikolaev shipyards or Crimean wines. But they are needed in the east. Ukrainians need to understand what they need - to live (maybe not bad) in the EU and work for companies from the EU or develop something of their own ... Russia healthy equal competition within the same space (for example, TS) will also benefit when at the top They will understand that creating Soviet semi-state holding giants and stifling competition is not economically possible.

      On the other hand, the policy of the Russian Federation in Ukraine is of course the policy of an elephant in a china shop. Apparently, too, the oligarchs rule and seek benefits. With such a policy, not only Ukrainians will soon run away from Russia, but also Belarusians and Russians themselves. This is far from soft power, as DAM once said, it's some kind of hard core. You have to be smarter. While we were engaged in Syria, we mocked Ukraine’s campaign — what is more important to us? It is necessary to take up the mind.
  32. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 11: 44 New
    +9
    ..if Ukraine truly signs the Association Agreement and the Free Trade Area with the EU, Russia will no longer be able to consider it as a privileged trading partner. So, the same practice that exists in the trade and economic relations of Moscow and Brussels will spread to Ukraine ...

    ..Russian 14 authorities in August temporarily tightened the customs regime on the border with Ukraine, but did so in strict accordance with the norms of the European Union itself. Cargoes are now being inspected, and questionable samples taken for additional examination - in those cases and in the volumes in which this is done in EU member states ...

    That's the whole layout ...
    "Nothing personal just business...".
    All the cries about the hand of Moscow, squeezing the throat of the independent nezalEnost - "... bullshit ...".
    hi
  33. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 18 September 2013 12: 01 New
    +3
    Quote: In recent months, the EU has been playing more and more vigorously the “Ukrainian card”,
    Discussions on the association of Ukraine with the European Union are lively in the media. Only now, almost no one heard any arguments: what will a simple Ukrainian have from this entry? Apart from the general phrases "about the European path of development", "familiarization with European values", nothing concrete. ABOUTI really want to hear the words of the Ukrainian politician on the topic: the life of the people of Ukraine in terms of association with the European Union. But silence on this subject! And the truth is, everything now depends on the people of Ukraine.
  34. Cristall
    Cristall 18 September 2013 12: 11 New
    +3
    someone comment on this?
    I personally could not figure it out with a magnifying glass.
    To break through by numbers and not by slogans (it’s clear that there are all the advantages for the EU)
    you understand what the problem is - they sacredly believe that in this place to increase (EU) and not to decrease in that (TS)
    guys you can think can believe
    but here they will simply kill everything that is in the east and south (and the center is a bit) exactly where the pro-Russian sentiments are. And all the business .... and we will not have "pragmatic" to return ever! Because there will be no one - they will be strangled and killed. Exaggerated but economically so.
    Maybe this is a general plan - something like "how to unite the Ukrainian people" or "kill the mood"
    one thing is clear - it is doubly beneficial for the West. And ours-write boiling water, their dream will come true to kill the Russian in the east ...
    1. xan
      xan 18 September 2013 15: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      Maybe this is a general plan - something like "how to unite the Ukrainian people" or "kill the mood"
      one thing is clear - it is doubly beneficial for the West. And ours-write boiling water, their dream will come true to kill the Russian in the east ...

      And what should we do? Keep the eastern regions on your neck? Pay extra for Russianness? What nonsense.
      And you don’t need to consider ordinary Ukrainians as foolish, people understand what’s what. Russia defends its market, as normal states do. And normality is not condemned.
    2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 18 September 2013 16: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      someone comment on this?

      You can see the link poorly, pliz
  35. michajlo
    michajlo 18 September 2013 12: 30 New
    10
    Good day to all!

    The article is good, it clearly describes the common desires of various "friends of Ukraine" from Brussels, the EU and the US for a TOTAL separation of my native Ukraine from the possibility of joining the Customs Union and further reunification of Ukraine with Russia, Belarus and possibly Kazakhstan in the "new USSR-2". good

    After all, it is precisely the "animal fear" of the West before the restoration of the power of the SLAVIC GREAT POWER that drives all these plans.

    Interestingly, with all the beautiful promises, for 22 years (from 1991), Ukraine has not been accepted into the EU anywhere, so Ukrainians have to apply for visas and other documents to travel to the "super" West.

    Apparently, it is no coincidence that the West wants to be closer to Ukraine, at the moment, when Russia in foreign policy begins to speak a little by VOICE that, in addition to understanding the desire of the "kind and sweet" West, it HAS ITS INTERESTS and REQUIREMENTS, which it intends to START to defend !!!

    I personally really want my native Ukraine, the quicker JOINED the TS good instead of "sucking up" to the West and "performing dirty tasks" by the Soviets against Russia (the Caucasus, Afghanistan, etc.).

    The only thing I see here is an incomprehensible "theatrical performance" for my voters from the political elites of Russia and Ukraine: on the one hand: "that tsezh stink we sell expensive gas and steal important"(Kiev) and on the other: "and why bother with them, let them go for a drive to the united Europe!"(Moscow)?! fool
    Although any thinking person understands that forces and means to persuade/ "more precisely tilt" Kiev to PERMANENT COOPERATION Moscow has enough !!!
    It is possible that both of our dear Guarantor (Moscow and Kiev) are only OBEDIENT for now "old undercover and secret agreements" from the era of MSG / EBN about the collapse of the Union!
    I see no other reason, although it is quite possible that I and we all do not know other details ???

    Well, after the accession and Tethering of Ukraine to the West, many Ukrainians can freely enjoy the LIVING LIFE in the Rich West.
    By the way, the "well-fed" West is only for its old members (Germany, etc.), new members are just "black and cheap labor").
    1. amp
      amp 18 September 2013 12: 45 New
      +5
      If Moscow will force Kiev to join the union, Ukraine will again shout about Russian imperialism. And given that most Ukrainians support European integration, this is only in the hands of anti-Russian propaganda. The only reasonable step here (in my opinion) is to allow Ukrainians to step on the European rake. Wait until they scold the West instead of Russia. Then, integration with Russia will be possible.
      1. chushoj
        chushoj 19 September 2013 01: 39 New
        +1
        Absolutely to the point. Just do not scold anyone or fight with anyone. Myself needs to be strengthened. No need to consume handouts and wait, it is necessary for Ukraine right now to arbitrarily rush into temporary poverty. Tear consciously, and hold a referendum. Everyone from the worker to the president will infringe on their current monetary interests, and fulfill the conditions for joining the Customs Union. Only by this action will they confirm their desire to be with the Slavs. They will now benefit, lose everything. They now need to be mercilessly dishonored in order to push towards the right choice.
  36. komsomolets
    komsomolets 18 September 2013 12: 38 New
    +4
    In fact, everything is as easy as shelling pears - Ukraine will not go anywhere, there can be no talk of any EU membership. It's just that this topic will be handled to irritate Russia once again. If you look into history, be that as it may, Ukraine will be together with Russia, well, or part of Ukraine tochno.Why do you, for example, "friendly" Galicia and Ternopil-only a headache for one place.
  37. amp
    amp 18 September 2013 12: 39 New
    +2
    And what can they actually do?
    Russia will change the customs rules for Ukraine and no Poles will prevent this.
  38. vkrav
    vkrav 18 September 2013 12: 43 New
    +4
    They just masturbate this topic in order to unnerve Russia once again.

    Everything is even simpler ... The only thing this fuss has started is to guarantee the inviolability of the accounts of Ukrainian oligarchs and Ukrainian government in European banks.
  39. Stasi
    Stasi 18 September 2013 13: 24 New
    0
    Ukraine wants what is called to serve two masters. It is corny of course, but it cannot be said otherwise. I remember reading somewhere a list of reforms that Ukraine will have to do if it joins the EU. The implementation of at least one such item will lead to an economic and social explosion in Ukraine.
  40. Zhenya
    Zhenya 18 September 2013 14: 05 New
    +2
    Or maybe we’ll finish the articles on that topic ??? No, really, how much can you?
    ps
    Ukraine goes its course, let it go, it is necessary to give time to it, while sound politicians come to power, at the moment the dispute is not appropriate.
  41. EGORKA
    EGORKA 18 September 2013 14: 23 New
    +2
    The paradox is that no matter who Ukraine joins, in this situation it will remain a "outskirts". Not to be "outskirts" is to become an independent state with weight in the world arena, but Ukraine has lost its chance to develop and strengthen over these 22 years, therefore now they are not signing an equal association with the EU, but before that they entered the WTO crookedly, all this speaks of the weakness of the state. They are also afraid to join the CU, like Russia will swallow Ukraine, if they were not afraid, the ruling circles are weak, the economy is weak. strong anti-Russian propaganda, frightening to shivering in the knees: uuuuu). It is very difficult for many Ukrainians to take off their orange blinders and see what they inherited when they were with the pits: territory, factories and production facilities, military equipment, etc. All this happened precisely at the behest of Russia and the joint construction of a strong state. This means that it is foolish to expect bad things from Russia when joining the Customs Union. It is necessary to build an alliance of sovereign states on an economic basis, for the common good.
    1. avt
      avt 18 September 2013 16: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: EGORKA
      The paradox is that no matter who Ukraine joins, in this situation it will remain "outskirts".

      Quote: EGORKA
      It is necessary to build a union of sovereign states on an economic basis, for the common good.

      Started for health, ended for peace. So there is already the CIS! But the TS had to be built only due to the fact that having united in the CIS on a cartel basis, when the uniform rules of the game are monopolistic in the territory of the states that execute them on their own, they scored for execution. Well, what about the execution, and what about the execution - even with the signing and ratification of the agreements adopted in the CIS? Here in the Customs Union they did at least something that they agreed on - equalized the legislative framework, finally agreed on uniform rules, implemented and documented a cartel agreement. Well, it doesn’t suit Ukraine, it doesn’t order them, we’ll sign it, here it’s not, and if we sign it if you get tired - we replay, and if someone asks. Why? The answer is simple - you infringe on us and the cursed oath.
  42. ing
    ing 18 September 2013 14: 38 New
    +2
    in order for Ukraine to feel all the "pleasure" from the EU, it is necessary to give them a try as in 17 the power was given to the Mensheviks. Especially it is necessary to pay attention to the thesis in the article that the EU, at its discretion, enters into force immediately after signing part of the articles of the Agreement
  43. EGORKA
    EGORKA 18 September 2013 14: 43 New
    +3
    I am also for the fact that Ukraine has the right to its choice, but this choice will also affect Russia, which means Russia has the right to actions that will help not to aggravate the situation for Russia in any way, in connection with the choice of Ukraine.
  44. raliv
    raliv 18 September 2013 15: 47 New
    +3
    Inspired. Based on the film "The White Guard" by Snezhkina, Hetman Skoropadsky at a meeting of the generals spread exclusively Ukrainian language, but immediately remembered the Russian language after realizing the desperate situation of the Ukrainian state, and also announced the mobilization of the Russian officers in the first place. Let it be artistic, but so similar ...
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 23: 37 New
      +5
      Quote: raliv
      Though artistic, but so similar ...


      hi
  45. zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 18 September 2013 15: 58 New
    0
    It seems that Ukraine has two ways: Dissolve in the Russian Empire or become a vassal of the EU.
    I do not like both options.
    1. Zhenya
      Zhenya 18 September 2013 16: 28 New
      +2
      Ukraine has always been a part of the Russian Empire and always will be, Ukraine as a state, as such, does not exist ... oh yes, only the last 20 years, but if you take the history of Russia it’s nothing!
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 18 September 2013 19: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Marrying
        Ukraine has always been a part of the Russian Empire and always will be, Ukraine as a state, as such, does not exist ... oh yes, only the last 20 years, but if you take the history of Russia it’s nothing!

        Zhenya, you, delirium tremens, a terrible thing, now the May Indians will come to you and they will ask for Russian citizenship ...
  46. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 18 September 2013 16: 00 New
    +2
    The 1946 caricature on the theme of the "unification" of the OUN-UPA banderlogists and the "arrogant gentry" from the Home Army has not lost its sharpness today:
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 18: 08 New
      -1
      Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
      The 1946 caricature on the theme of the "unification" of the OUN-UPA banderlogists and the "arrogant gentry" from the Home Army has not lost its sharpness today:
      Not tired of junk for a new offer? And what about this? Or is it nonsense of the liberals?
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 21: 17 New
        +6
        Quote: grafrozow
        Not tired of junk for a new offer? And what about this? Or is it nonsense of the liberals?


        Count, wake up, great things await you ... laughing
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 18 September 2013 22: 44 New
          -1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Count, wake up
          Ilyich, I haven’t been sleeping for a long time — my father’s namesake, Paul Siebert, has deprived him of sleep. He makes a rope out of the sand, with a smart face, not even realizing that the OUN and UPA are different organizations, Bandera and Melnik were not friends, much less both Poles. And Kuznetsov is all the same, an urya-patriot, it’s easy to earn pluses in the trouble of neighbors, but even if he becomes a general-maximus, they won’t put a bust in his native village.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 23: 04 New
            +5
            Quote: grafrozow
            Homeland in danger, namesake Paul Siebert sleep deprived


            Yes ... Nobody will give us parabellum ... bully
            1. grafrozow
              grafrozow 18 September 2013 23: 23 New
              +1
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Yes ... Nobody will give us parabellum ...
              So it’s still cloudy, but was there a parabellum? Medvedev in his book has managed with general phrases, we still do not know the truth.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 23: 35 New
                +5
                Quote: grafrozow
                Medvedev in his book has managed with general phrases, we still do not know the truth.


                In a lot of knowledge - a lot of sadness ...

                Sometimes, from the truth of harsh reality, I want to escape to the most remote corner ... So no, what kind of life is without an Internet, without a mobile? The struggle of contradictions in everyday life ... fellow
      2. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 19 September 2013 17: 22 New
        0
        Well, where do we go ...
        The act of proclamation of the Ukrainian State.

        1. By the will of the Ukrainian people, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, led by Stepan Bandera, proclaims the creation of the Ukrainian State, for which entire generations of the best sons of Ukraine have laid their heads.
        The organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, which, under the leadership of its Creator and Leader Yevgeny Konovalets, has led a stubborn struggle for freedom in the last decades of the bloody Moscow-Bolshevik enslavement, calls on the entire Ukrainian people not to lay down their arms for so long until the Sovereign Ukrainian Power has been created on all Ukrainian lands.
        Sovereign Ukrainian Authority will ensure peace and order for the Ukrainian people, the full development of all its forces and the satisfaction of all its needs.
        2. On the western lands of Ukraine, Ukrainian Authority is created, which will submit to the Ukrainian National Government, which will be created in the capital of Ukraine - Kiev.
        3. The newly created Ukrainian State will work closely with the National Socialist Greater Germany, which, under the leadership of its Leader Adolf Hitler, creates a new order in Europe and in the world and helps the Ukrainian people free themselves from the Moscow occupation.
        The Ukrainian National Revolutionary Army, which is being created on Ukrainian soil, will continue to fight together with the Allied German Army against the Moscow occupation of the Sovereign Council State and the new order around the world.
        Long live the Sovereign Council of the Ukrainian State! Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, Long live the head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and Ukrainian people Stepan Bandera! Glory to Ukraine!
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BA%D1%82_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D

        0%B7%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0

        %B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%

        80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0_%281941%29

        Welcome banner of the OUN (b) July - beginning of September 1941 at the Glinsky gate of the castle in Zholkva, Lviv region. Text (from top to bottom) - “Glory to Hitler! Glory to Bandera! Long live the independent Ukrainian Catholic Power! Long live the Leader of Art. Bandera! Glory to Hitler! Glory to the invincible German and Ukrainian armed forces! Glory to Bandera! ”
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 19 September 2013 21: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
          Well, where do we go ...
          The act of proclamation of the Ukrainian State.

          Are you not tired of reposting it?) Or, again, throw the same manifesto of the Vlasovites in response (as I already did)?
  47. grafrozow
    grafrozow 18 September 2013 16: 27 New
    +2
    Again, Ukraine is not doing what we need, I remembered the film "gentlemen of fortune" - You don't go there, you go here, otherwise the snow will fall into your head, you will become completely dead. And now the bitter truth is what the Russian economy represents today.
    The head of the Ministry of Economic Development Alexei Ulyukaev expressed concern that the level of economic development in Russia this year for the first time is lower than the world average, in addition, the country will lag far behind the other BRICS countries in terms of economic growth. Ulyukaev recalled that in the first half of the year, Russian GDP grew by only 1,4 , XNUMX%, and the industry showed zero dynamics, investments are still in the negative border. "Gazeta.Ru"
    You can understand the Ukrainians, they want to live better, well, let them try, who did not fall, he did not rise. I think that each of the members of the forum noticed "improvements" in our life, and the calls of our "guarantor" to save money make you think about Whose account we will save. God forbid, so that 1998 does not happen again, but just in case my wife and I are making supplies. Ukrainian proverb - Tykha ukrainian draw, ale fat treba perepryat. hi
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 18 September 2013 17: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: grafrozow
      but just in case, with the wife we ​​make stocks.

      Hello Alexander! Muksuna, Muksuna more salt!
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 18 September 2013 17: 28 New
        +2
        Quote: retired
        Muksuna, Muksuna more salt!
        Hello Yuri. Muksun is now in the Red Book, not what he used to be, but there are always "trosh" for himself.
        Quote: retired
        Today it was reported that the Ukrainian government approved the text of the association agreement with the EU. In general, it will begin soon.
        More precisely in December, the show will be in full swing. hi
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 18 September 2013 17: 37 New
          +3
          Hi again! Ide is not bad either. Especially in the form of cold smoked. Large perch again, sterlet ... But the most delicious in my view is nelma! Nelma and Muksun is something !! good drinks
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 18 September 2013 18: 16 New
            +4
            Yuri, remember the Khanty. "Is there a fish? No fish, just an ide and a pike. laughing But you can find your own. Nelma by bartering with the locals.
            1. pensioner
              pensioner 18 September 2013 18: 34 New
              +2
              Ahhhhhhh !! Do not weed! stop And "There is no fish. One pike" is a catch phrase in the North. In July 2007, in Andre on the Ob, the sterlet was caught with a fishing rod. I caught the largest one - 495 mm long. They made "sausage" ... For a whole month they ate sterlet in all forms.
              1. grafrozow
                grafrozow 18 September 2013 18: 58 New
                +3
                Quote: retired
                ... I caught the largest one - 495 mm long. "Sausage" was made
                If not a secret, what did you measure? Is it really like 38 parrots, or 2 members? laughing I liked the shop from the fish factory in Tazovsk, smoked vendace for beer ... fat on the fingers, and taste ... drinks You probably need to KILL a business trip, I’ll be here until December, and then to Tyumen for a month, and a month to Ukraine, if I can, but I’ll have to get a visa as well. We’ll be fighting, and we’ll get a new hemorrhoids.
                1. pensioner
                  pensioner 18 September 2013 19: 21 New
                  +3
                  Quote: grafrozow
                  If not a secret, what did you measure? Is it really like 38 parrots, or 2 members?

                  Alexander! I'm actually a specialist in non-destructive testing. I even sleep with tape measure! There is a photo. I'll post it somehow.
                  Quote: grafrozow
                  , whitefish smoked for beer ... fat on the fingers, and the taste ...
                  Ahhhhhh! Went to drown ...
                  1. grafrozow
                    grafrozow 18 September 2013 23: 05 New
                    +2
                    Quote: retired
                    I'm actually a specialist in non-destructive testing. I even sleep with tape measure!
                    Yuri, this is no secret, you don’t have isotope roulettes. Do you also check the welding of pipelines? In the photo, our nurse, venison, fish for diesel fuel was changed, and always honestly.
                  2. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 19 September 2013 03: 23 New
                    +3
                    Quote: retired
                    I'm actually a specialist in non-destructive testing. I even sleep with tape measure!

                    Yura! You’ve been sleeping with a slipper for a long time wassat Do not misinform the people
                    Quote: retired
                    Ahhhhhh! Went to drown ...

                    Tell me where I'll come for crayfish laughing hi
  48. pensioner
    pensioner 18 September 2013 16: 59 New
    +2
    Today it was reported that the Ukrainian government approved the text of the association agreement with the EU. In general, it will start soon ... It will not be boring. Onishchenko say the vacation is gone. The strength to gain ...
  49. EGORKA
    EGORKA 18 September 2013 17: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    It seems that Ukraine has two ways: Dissolve in the Russian Empire or become a vassal of the EU.
    I do not like both options.

    Ukraine was dissolved being part of the Russian Empire or the USSR ?! in which place? Ukraine was so fattened in empires that it could not overgrown with fat, due to this fat and kept all 22 years of independence, but now it got very shaky and started looking for a feeder, it’s hard to be empty, and Russian grubs seem to be no longer just smelling European cuisines) EU and CU feeders are not satisfied, so look ahead for food on your own, but 22 years ago they suggest that this is not an easy task for an independent one, there are a lot of ambitions, which is not bad, but the cat has cried out to deal with Ukraine on equal terms. Now enter, Ukraine will be drawn into the EU and the further you go, the less independent sovereignty you will have, but developing as Great Ukraine, which you probably dream about, will not give you, just like they will not let you die of starvation, such a piglet as Ukraine needs the EU mainly to feed her your goods, because you sign the agreement not on equal terms with the EU, IMHO.
  50. EGORKA
    EGORKA 18 September 2013 17: 18 New
    0
    Quote: grafrozow
    The "guarantor" for saving makes us think at whose expense we will save. God forbid, so that 1998 does not happen again, but just in case my wife and I are making supplies. Ukrainian proverb - Tykha ukrainian draw, ale fat treba perepryat. hi


    In economics, it is always recession, then increase, since 1998 it is not worth leveling. In Europe, and in the world economy as a whole, things are not better, only Amers will print well money for themselves as necessary)
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 18 September 2013 17: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: EGORKA
      In Europe, and in the global economy as a whole, things are no better,
      You know, I will not be happy at all if the residents of Honduras and Zimbabwe "tighten their belts" with me, and this will not make it easier for me and my family, I want to see the real concern of our government, not new taxes and fines.