Military Review

Little Russia or Ukraine?

82
[right]"Ukraine is also Russia."
S.N. Sidorenko



To begin with, in 1919, the German General Hoffmann, Chief of Staff of the Eastern Front, trying to intercept the palm of the Bolsheviks, wrote: “In fact, Ukraine is the business of my hands, and not the fruit of the conscious will of the Russian people. I created Ukraine ... "
Who wants to understand in detail the phenomenon of the “Ukrainian” offspring, let's find out who the Little Russians are, and how the Bolsheviks, with sealed-up cars, made ukrov from them. So according to the census 1897 of the year, in the Poltava province there lived 94% of ethnic Little Russians and not a single Ukrainian.

"Ukrainians", especially the "orange" and "Svidomo", for some reason do not like the word "Little Russia". I do not like the word "Little Russia". Overwhelmed with fierce malice towards all "moskalskomu" these "independent supporters" absolutely do not know the true stories his people, not the origin of the words "Little Russia", "Little Russia", "Ukraine". But these words were not invented at all by the Muscovites, but by the inhabitants of Russia. This word is widely used by Bohdan Khmelnitsky in his Belotserkovny Universal in 1648 year. “Who of you loves the integrity of the homeland of your outskirts of Little Russia ...” In the letter of Zaporizhzhya Sich to Bogdan Khmelnytsky, written in January 1654, we find the following lines: the patronage of the Russian monarch, we must recognize that the best benefit to the Motherland of Little Russia is best. ”

If the term Russian was first mentioned in writing in November 1053 by Illarion of Kiev, the first Russian metropolitan, the author of the famous “Word of Law and Grace”, then the term Little Russia, Little Russia originated in 1335, when the Moscow Principality was under the Tatar yoke. Little princedom called the principality of Galicia and Volyn prince Yuri the Second. And Yuri the Second called himself "the prince of all Little Russia." “Muscovites” have no relation to the name “Little Russia”. But all the inhabitants before the beginning of the twentieth century — and Little Russia, like Big Russia — equally considered themselves Russians. “Thank God that we are Russian” - these words were said by N. Gogol. “Ukraine” was used as a geographical concept, where a part of the Russian people called Little Russians lived.

Nothing, of course, offensive in the title of "Little Russia" is not. Small - in the history of the country were called, from where people came out - his national cradle. The great ones are the center of the territorial completion of state consolidation, which have reached a particularly magnificent flourishing, wealth and power. Hence, Small Greece (Athens) and Great Greece (Hellas), Great Italy (after Rome), Small Russia (Kiev) and Great Russia (Moscow). The name "Little Russia" does not contain anything offensive or shameful for the inhabitants of southern Russia. Little Russia is the cradle of the Russian people; it is not for nothing that Kiev is “the mother of Russian cities”, from here “the Russian Land went to be”. The name “Little Russian,” if it is possible to speak of preference at all, is more honorable than “Great Russian,” for it means literally: Little Russia is the first Russian, the oldest in its genealogical root.

The name of our people - Russia is known from the deepest antiquity ... "We are a single Russian people!" Ukraine stands for nothing but the outskirts, the marginal lands of the state. Anyone who is at least familiar with history, with documents written at a time when they had never heard of "separatist" separatists, when no one "Ukrainian people" heard anything, he knows that in old papers they often use expressions : Ryazan Ukraine, Siberian Ukraine, Voronezh Ukraine. In the old song of the Siberian explorers, folded at the time when Erofei Khabarov went to Amur, it is sung: “As in the Siberian in Ukraine Yes in the Daur side ...” From the song, as is well known, especially the old one, you cannot throw out the words. For today's separatists, let me remind you that at that time there were no Ukrainians living in Dauria. And Siberian Ukraine meant the marginal Siberian land. Little Russians, podёldykivaya enemies of Russia, of course you can call the Ukrainians. And Kiev, in case of success, the separatists can rename to Mazepinsk, Petlyurovsk, Banderovsk. But from this Kiev will not cease to be the mother of Russian cities. Little Russia is the ancient original name of the part of Russia. And there is no point in denying us, Little Russians, the historical name of our Homeland. Separatists can call themselves whatever you like. He, Baba Paraska, battered for several days on the Maidan for dollars, and on you - a symbol of the revolution in the Goat Marsh with the Order. Or a young girl with a brothel jumped out, put a wreath on her head - a Ukrainian ...

Yes, I am a Little Russian, the first, most ancient Russian. Maybe my ancestor during Igor nailed his shield on the gates of Constantinople. Why should I change the true name of my ancestors to a new one, which was invented by the founders of separatism, and today they impose on us rich and opolychennye "orange Galicians". Why should I consider Muscovites enemies, the Moscow culture hostile, when all Russian culture flowed out of the ancient Kiev Academy.

Not for this, my ancestors put their heads in battles with the Turks, Tatars, Poles; perished on convict galleys, in the dungeons of Polish castles, they did not fight for Poltava on Peter’s side, fought on the Borodino field in the Poltava regiment of Paskevich, so that their descendants would abandon the entire national legacy of their ancestors. In the name of what to do it? In the name of becoming a pan in fake Ukraine, a toy of political forces hostile to Russia?

I stand on the fact that Little Russia is the ancient ancestral home of great Russia, always bleeding in the arms of the separatists who carried the ruin to it. I always want to be the son of a free great country, not a small separatist stable. Orange agents of foreign intelligence services are disgusting to me; they have become the “master” of a state that does not depend on the “Muscovites” but depends on the “Washington regional committee”. Do the Little Russians wish to live in the occupation, to be a toy in the hands of the “gentlemen-ministers” and “master-masters” alien to us in the maintenance of foreign intelligence services? As for the types of occupation, I give the floor to the modern writer S. Sidorenko. “The occupation regime that now rules Ukraine is radically different from all previous invaders, the invasions of which the Little Russian people survived during their long history.

All the previous ones had mainly material claims to us. The Mongol-Tatars, for example, were content to receive tribute from us.

And even the Poles, in whose subordination Malaya and Belaya Rus had been for a long time, - although they tried to cheat us, plant a union with us, but perceive our people as slaves, as human material, they did not even want to dirty their hands about us - and they entrusted us to the Jews who systematically squeezed juices from us, earning future “troubles” on their heads ...

And the Germans, when they visited us or only gathered to us, although they supported all sorts of disastrous ideological projects for us — Lenin, and Hrushevsky with Petlyura, and Skoropadsky, and Bandera ... —in fact, they were more interested in things deeply prosaic: bread , lard, coal, rabsiloy ...
And the Communist Party that ruled here in the 20th century — with all the spiritual losses we suffered during the seventy years of its rule — focused mainly on the redistribution of property ...

Yes, and the goat-bearded Uncle Sam, who is already at our doorstep, who holds a weighty calculator in his hand and beats up impatiently with his hoof, he is primarily interested in the fact that he is able to count his calculator.

But for those who sat down on our neck in 1991, and were firmly fixed on it at the end of 2004, the main thing: to remake us spiritually, to erase the Russian soul from us, to change the spiritual image of the land where the great culture originated the world of Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoevsky ...
These came to our Russian soul ... "

Therefore, following A. Tsarinny, I affirm today that political Ukrainians are a special kind of people. “Being born Russian, a Ukrainian does not feel himself Russian, denies his own“ Russianness ”in himself and viciously hates everything Russian. He agrees to be called kafr, Hottentot - by anyone, but not Russian. The words Russia, Russian, Russia - act on him like a red scarf on a bull. But the old Ukrainian ancestors are annoying: “Little Russia, Little Russia, Little Russian, Little Russian” ...

It is time to understand and ask ourselves why we, Little Russians, hate our “Russianness” as something alien, podlyedyvaya orange ambitions of “professional Ukrainians” and “independent” Bolshevik belch? We are not ukry, we have not stolen anything. The land of the Ukraine, New Russia, Slobozhanshchina-is Russia!
Author:
Originator:
http://rusmir.in.ua/nay/4245-malorossiya-ili-ukraina.html
82 comments
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  1. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 17 September 2013 06: 32 New
    18
    I will say this: ignorance of their REAL history slowly and brutally destroys the people, corrupting and degrading it falls down turning into biorobots, traders and consumers.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. waisson
        waisson 17 September 2013 15: 13 New
        0
        We have a pain in the ass. This is Chechnya-Dagestan. Ossetia. They have their own flocks. But I don’t want a Pole. I believe in UKRAINE as a powerful state in Europe.
        1. jasper
          jasper 17 September 2013 19: 38 New
          -1
          Do we have cadres in the Kremlin?
  2. Darakht
    Darakht 17 September 2013 06: 35 New
    10
    For a long time there were no articles about Ukraine, one could say - for ages laughing
    Did German General Hoffmann invent Ukraine? Or is it Bismarck, as stated a couple of days ago? You really decide specifically, otherwise I’m already confused in your lies!
    1. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 10: 36 New
      +3
      gloomy German genius with the filing of the Poles
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 17 September 2013 10: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Daraht
      For a long time there were no articles about Ukraine, one could say - for ages

      Two favorite topics, and Chechens. And the more articles, the more willing to wave a saber, and from all sides ...
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 11: 19 New
        +7
        Quote: Russ69
        And the more articles, the more willing to wave a saber, and from all sides ...

        Exactly!
        Sort of online Cossacks! laughing
    3. NUT
      NUT 17 September 2013 11: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: Daraht
      Did German General Hoffmann invent Ukraine? Or still Bismarck

      Bismarck with the submission of Hoffmann; In fact, it was he, Otto von Bismarck, who stood behind the idea of ​​creating Ukraine and recognized that the term “Ukraine” was very impressive to him. On the maps of Bismarck, Ukraine extended from Saratov and Volgograd in the northeast to Makhachkala in the south. The Ukrainization program was launched by Austria-Hungary at the end of the XNUMXth century, and this was based on the re-identification of the Little Russians and Galician Rusyns into the so-called “Ukrainians” because only the Russians can defeat the Russians, which Lenin, by the way, brilliantly proved ...

      “The creation of Ukraine is not the result of the initiative of the Russian people, but the result of the activities of my intelligence.”
      General Max Hoffmann

      “The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it. It is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to pit two parts of a single people and to watch how the brother will kill his brother. To do this, you just need to find and nurture the TRADERS among the national elite and, with their help, change the self-awareness of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
      Prince Otto von Bismarck

      The scheme is simple and not new: to separate the three powerful brothers, relatives, half-bloods, slander, quarrel, to poison and beat against each other - to rob them individually ...

      “Give me the media and I will make a herd of pigs from any nation”
      Reich Minister Paul Joseph Goebbels

      Which, in fact, of us did; what actually happens on the Russian Earth ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 17 September 2013 12: 58 New
      +2
      Do not get confused, we look to whom, what is profitable, and who pays music.
      "The allocation by the European Union of macro-financial assistance to Ukraine depends on the resumption of cooperation between Kiev and the International Monetary Fund," said EU Ambassador Jan Tombinsky.

      “We have signed all documents with the Ukrainian government regarding macro-financial assistance to Ukraine, but this depends on the agreement with the IMF,” he said.

      At the same time, the diplomat noted that today the EU is awaiting the results of negotiations between Ukraine and the IMF, since macro-financial assistance can be allocated only after the Fund "sees" all the conditions for this. "
    5. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 17 September 2013 14: 05 New
      +3
      First of all, anti-Russian, and secondly, anti-Slavic forces have customers for such articles. Local banderlogs by stupidity or denyuzhku play along with these forces - the result of Russophiles in Ukraine is practically gone.
      It is clear to whom it is beneficial. Without Ukraine, Russia cannot claim a leading place in Europe.
  3. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 17 September 2013 06: 37 New
    +7
    If you follow the author's logic, then Ukraine should be called not Malorosiya, but Russia, or at least Russia. I would also like to note that there is no connection between being under the Tatar yoke of the Moscow principality and the Galicia-Volyn "Little Russia" - Moscow became the center of Russia a few (at least 150 years) later. Too lazy to delve into history, but much more curious formations existed and successfully survived in it.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 September 2013 07: 03 New
      10
      Quote: serge-68-68
      , then Ukraine should not be called Malorosia, but Russia, or at least Russia.

      Yes, not only the logic of the author, every sane person knows that Ukraine is Russia. The only thing is that in the light of intrigue, politicians have created a myth about stealing for themselves and that’s all. And what we now call Ukraine is an entity that has no future. Time will return everything to its place.
      1. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 17 September 2013 07: 08 New
        11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Time will return everything to its place.

        And everyone who wants to say that he will not return - let him study history good
        The Russian Land has always been reunited and this time reunited!
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 17 September 2013 08: 49 New
          -17
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          And everyone who wants to say that he will not return - let him study history
          The Russian Land has always been reunited and this time reunited!

          This time no longer. And it’s rather for the better.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 18 September 2013 06: 27 New
            0
            Quote: Warrawar
            This time no longer

            Oh, the dreams of the US State Department on the site. Remember, dream, and we will sit burn you dreamers tongue
        2. jasper
          jasper 17 September 2013 10: 37 New
          +4
          not time in itself, but our labors
      2. jasper
        jasper 17 September 2013 20: 45 New
        +2
        and by the way, we don’t call ourselves Great Russia, so there are no Little Russians. not Belorussians, not Great Russians, there is a Russian people divided by the Bolshevik borders
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 17 September 2013 06: 47 New
    0
    Political Ukrainians are pure Russophobia. Culturally, Ukrainian is a very interesting and colorful phenomenon. When I was in school in Ukraine, I tried to read in Ukrainian, clumsily, but I learned the language, being a Russian-speaking and Russian native of the Urals, even sometimes I managed to write dictations for 4. Watch films, TV series, advertisements, finally, in Ukrainian. You know, cool. Not fun at all. when evil Ukrainians (not Ukrainians, these are different peoples) in the same melodious language angrily hiss at "her" and other enemies of nenki.
  5. George
    George 17 September 2013 07: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: Daraht
    For a long time there were no articles about Ukraine, one could say - for ages laughing
    Did German General Hoffmann invent Ukraine? Or is it Bismarck, as stated a couple of days ago? You really decide specifically, otherwise I’m already confused in your lies!

    Wait, in a couple of days, the turn will reach Erich Koch.
    1. Darakht
      Darakht 17 September 2013 07: 34 New
      0
      Quote: GEORGE
      Wait, in a couple of days, the turn will reach Erich Koch.

      And then I just fell out of the chair wassat
  6. AK-47
    AK-47 17 September 2013 07: 21 New
    -21
    Quote: Author Nikolay Yaremenko
    "Born Russian, Ukrainian ...

    Ukrainian is born Ukrainian, Russian - Russian.
    1. MG42
      MG42 17 September 2013 12: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: AK-47
      Ukrainian is born Ukrainian

      A citizen of Ukraine is born, many who according to the Soviet passport had a column of Russian nationality, now this column was removed in Ukrainian passports and became citizens of Ukraine, i.e. they are now automatically recorded in the Ukrainians ..
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 13: 00 New
        +5
        Quote: MG42
        this column was removed in Ukrainian passports became citizens of Ukraine, i.e. they are now automatically recorded in the Ukrainians ..

        Mattress Plagiarism laughing
        1. MG42
          MG42 17 September 2013 13: 05 New
          +2
          Everything goes to unification, in Soviet passports everything was clear and understandable ..
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 13: 38 New
            +5
            Quote: MG42
            Everything goes to unification, in Soviet passports everything was clear and understandable ..

            The issue of self-identification is very important, especially for small nations.
            In the first samples of Russian passports, the "nationality" column was absent. There was noise, shouting and din. The count was returned.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 14: 31 New
              +4
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              There was noise, screaming and din. Count returned.

              To blame, the jamb has broken. fool
              1. MG42
                MG42 17 September 2013 15: 32 New
                +2
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                To blame, the jamb has broken.

                You are Russian? apparently they didn’t look at the passport for a long time winked although there are a lot of yellow-blue under the flags of Russia,
                Here's a new sample in the photo? Looks like it? >>
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 17: 44 New
                  +6
                  Quote: MG42
                  Here's a new sample in the photo? Looks like it? >>

                  Well, I repented ... call the lads crying
          2. demeen1
            demeen1 18 September 2013 12: 55 New
            0
            Yeah, just a notebook, where was born who married what blood type, etc.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Shdo
    Shdo 17 September 2013 08: 18 New
    +4
    Quote: AK-47
    Quote: Author Nikolay Yaremenko
    "Born Russian, Ukrainian ...

    Ukrainian is born Ukrainian, Russian - Russian.


    Strictly speaking, "Ukrainian" is citizenship, as a Russian is a citizen of the Russian Federation, an American is a US citizen. Russian is a nationality.
    1. MstislavHrabr
      MstislavHrabr 17 September 2013 09: 08 New
      10
      Ukraine is indeed 75% populated by Russians. The rest are the descendants of the not-killed Khazars (Jews), the remnants of the defeated "Golden Horde" who fled together with the son of Khan Mamai Mansur under the protection of the Polish-Lithuanian state, the descendants of the defeated Crimean Khanate ... But ... the worst thing today is that all these The "remnants" are ready to fight for the fact that they should be the main leading force in Ukraine, for everyone to live according to the rules that they will establish and control. (Moreover, as in ancient times, they recruit the young and strong from other nations as assistants ...). But the Russians are not ready to unite and fight for their values, their language, their Russian soul ... This means that there is a high probability that they will be conquered and assimilated. And a young generation of Russians is already growing up who are ready to consider themselves Ukrainians, Tatars, anyone - just not to consider themselves a people who surrendered without a fight to a pitiful handful of unbeaten nomads ...
      1. Darakht
        Darakht 17 September 2013 09: 49 New
        -5
        Quote: MstislavHrabr
        just not to consider yourself a people who surrendered without a fight to a miserable bunch of unfinished nomads ...

        Did not try to be treated?
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. washi
          washi 17 September 2013 11: 35 New
          +2
          Well, they also wanted to form Israel in Crimea under temporary detention facilities.
          And in the Jewish Autonomous Region. try to find the "indigenous" nationality. Although the lands there are amazing, China is nearby, production, in some places, is still breathing
    2. Darakht
      Darakht 17 September 2013 09: 36 New
      0
      Quote: ShDO
      Strictly speaking, "Ukrainian" is citizenship, as a Russian is a citizen of the Russian Federation, an American is a US citizen. Russian is a nationality.

      Another pearl of the illiterate :) What kind of nation then inhabits Ukraine?
      1. washi
        washi 17 September 2013 11: 40 New
        +3
        Is Ukrainian a nation? Rather, it is a place of residence. Just like Siberians live in Siberia.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  9. shark
    shark 17 September 2013 08: 50 New
    +2
    Oh Lord. Again about Ukraine! Well, what have we got attached to her. If you call mustard a million times honey, it will not. Ignore this topic. Our position is simple - it is presented in the photo to the article. There is no point in discussing it with the Ukrainians. This is a fact that will happen. In the meantime, let them hang out in their own village of independence.
    1. xan
      xan 17 September 2013 12: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: shark
      Oh Lord. Again about Ukraine! Well, what have we got attached to her. If you call mustard a million times honey, it will not. Ignore this topic. Our position is simple - it is presented in the photo to the article. There is no point in discussing it with the Ukrainians. This is a fact that will happen. In the meantime, let them hang out in their own village of independence.

      basically agree. we must leave them alone and behave like foreigners, which ours, in principle, are beginning to do. Russia also needs to be tackled - Russia's success is the best agitation.
  10. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 02 New
    +5
    Fyodor Gaida: "About the origin of the word UKRAINE"
    http://regnum.ru/news/polit/1410406.html


    1. How and when did the word "Ukraine" appear?

    "Oukrainami" ("ukrainami", "ukrainami") from the XII to the XVII centuries. named various border lands of Russia. In the Ipatiev Chronicle under 6695 (1187) the Pereyaslavl "Oukraina" is mentioned, under 6697 (1189). - Galician "oukraina", under 6721 (1213) - the border towns of this Galician "oukraina" are listed: Brest, Ugrovsk, Vereshchin, Stolp, Komov. In the I Pskov Chronicle under 6779 (1271) - it is said about the villages of the Pskov "Ukraine". In the Russian-Lithuanian treaties of the 1496th century. mentions "Ukrainian places", "Ukrainian places", "Ukrainian places", which mean Smolensk, Lyubutsk, Mtsensk. In the agreement between the two Ryazan princes in 1571, "our villages in Mordva, on the Tsna and in the Ukraine" are named. With regard to the Moscow-Crimean border from the end of the XNUMXth century. it also said: "Ukraine", "Our Ukrainians", "our Ukrainian places". In XNUMX the "Painting to the watchmen from the Ukrainian cities from the Polish Ukraine along the Pine, along the Don, along the Sword and along other rivers" was compiled. Along with the "Tatar Ukraine" there were also "Kazan Ukraine" and "German Ukraine". Documents of the late XNUMXth century report about the "Ukrainian service" of Moscow servicemen: "And the sovereign ordered all Ukrainian governors in all Ukrainian cities to stand in their place according to the previous painting and at the gathering they should be according to the previous painting on the regiment; and how will the arrival of military people on the sovereigns of Ukraine, and the sovereign ordered to be in the front line in the Ukrainian regiment. " In the Russian legislation of the XVII century. often mentioned are "Ukraine", "Ukrainian cities", "Sovereigns of Ukraine", "Our Ukrainians", "Ukrainian / Ukrainian cities of a wild field", "Ukrainian cities", it is said about the presence of military people "in the Sovereign service in Ukraine." This concept is extremely broad: "... to Siberia and to Astrakhan and to other distant Ukrainian cities." However, in the Moscow state from the turn of the XV-XVI centuries. there was also Ukraine in the narrow sense of the word - Oka Ukraine ("Ukraine beyond the Oka", "Crimean Ukraine"). In the Russian legislation of the XVI-XVII centuries. the list of cities of such Ukraine is repeatedly given: Tula, Kashira, Krapivna, Aleksin, Serpukhov, Torusa, Odoev. Along with it, the Sloboda Ukraine of the Muscovite State also existed.
    1. Aleksandr
      Aleksandr 17 September 2013 09: 18 New
      -1
      You can also read Anatoly A. Klyosov at Zadornov on his blog http://mzadornov.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0% B8%
      D0%B9%20%D0%9A%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2 Кто до конца Егозу не дочитал
  11. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 03 New
    +2
    At the end of the XVI - I half of the XVII century. the word "Ukraine" in the narrow sense of the word also began to denote the lands of the Middle Dnieper - the central regions of modern Ukraine. In Polish sources (royal and hetman's universals), "castles and our Ukrainian places", "Ukrainian places and townships", "Kiev Ukraine" are mentioned. In the Russian legislation of the XVII century. figures "Ukraine Little Russia", "Ukraine, which is called Little Russia", the right bank of the Dnieper was called "Polish Ukrainian". Little Russia and Slobodskaya Ukraine were clearly divided in Russian legislation: "Little Russian cities residents come to the Moscow state and to the Ukrainian cities ..."

    2. What was the name of the inhabitants of the border Ukraine?

    In the Ipatiev Chronicle under 6776 (1268), the inhabitants of the Polish borderlands are mentioned - "Lyakhove Oukrainians" ("... and the news was given to them by Lyakhove Oukrainians"). In the Russian-Lithuanian treaties and ambassadorial documents of the middle of the XV - I third of the XVI centuries. are called "Ukrainian people", "Ukrainian our people", "Ukrainian servants", "Ukrainian people", "Ukrainians", i.e. residents of Smolensk, Lyubutsk, Mtsensk. In Polish documents from the end of the XNUMXth century. there are "our Ukrainian elders", "Ukrainian lords and elders", "Ukrainian people", "Ukrainian inhabitants", "Ukrainian Cossacks", "Ukrainian senators". There was no ethnic connotation in this naming. The documents also mention "Ukrainian military people" and "Ukrainian places" of the Crimean Khanate.

    The inhabitants of Russia still called themselves Russians, and foreigners also called them. In Polish and Russian sources of the same time, the names of "Russian churches" in Lutsk, "Ruska clergy" and "Relia [religion, faith] Ruska" are called, as well as "our Russian people" (right there - "ordinary Ukrainian inhabitants"), " Rusin "," People of Ruskie "," Russian people ". In the text of Vyhovsky's Gadyach agreement with Poland, the population of Ukraine is referred to as "the Ruskom people" and "Russians". The subjects of the Muscovite state were called the same: "Russian people", "your great sovereign military people, Russian and Cherkasy".
  12. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 04 New
    +1
    3. Where and how did the word "Ukrainians" first begin to be used?

    In the Moscow state, "Ukrainians" were originally called military people (border guards) who served in the Oka Ukraine - in the Upper and Middle Poochye - against the Crimeans. In March 1648, the Moscow Duma clerk Ivan Gavrenyov wrote to the Discharge Order a note on the preparation of a number of cases for the report, in which, in particular, under the sixth paragraph it was briefly said: "Ukrainians, who lives why, do not keep them and let them go." The Duma clerk did not explain the word "Ukrainians" in any way; obviously, in Moscow it was heard and did not need an explanation. What it meant becomes clear from subsequent documents. In the spring of 1648, in connection with rumors of an impending attack by the Crimeans on the Moscow borders, a gathering of military men from the Ukrainian cities - Tula, Kashira, Kozlov, Tarusa, Belev, Bryansk, Karachev, Mtsensk was announced. In the instruction to the governors Buinosov-Rostovsky and Velyaminov of May 8, drawn up on the basis of the report of the clerk Gavrenyov, in particular, it was said: "... to the governors to write off the same to those cities, so that the governors of the children of boyars and nobles and all service people should be sent to him immediately. " In 1648, Little Russian Cossacks were already in the service of the Moscow state, but they were called not "Ukrainians", but "Cherkassians" (they are also mentioned in Gavrenyov's note).

    The use of the word "Ukrainians" in the Moscow state no later than the second half of the 1594th century. can be seen from the fact that in the Ryazan payment books 1597-1607. the Ukraintsovs are mentioned - nobles of the Kamensky camp of the Pronsky district. The letter of 1641 mentions the serviceman Grigory Ivanov, the son of Ukraintsov, who received an estate in the Ryazhsky district (modern Ryazan region) from Tsar Vasily Shuisky. The Duma clerk E.I. Ukraintsev (more correctly: Ukraintsov; 1708-1700), who signed the Constantinople Peace Treaty of Russia with the Ottoman Empire in 1694. In 1594, Emelyan Ukraintsov compiled a pedigree of the Ukraintsov family for the discharge order, according to which the founder of the surname was a Ryazan nobleman of the middle of the 1597th century. Fyodor Andreev, son of Lukin, nicknamed Ukrainian; his father was "placed in Ryazan", that is, somewhat east of the above-mentioned cities of the Oka Ukraine, as a result of which the distinctive nickname "Ukrainian" and then the surname "Ukraintsovy" could arise. Most likely, Fedor Ukrainets was not a mythological person: it was his grandchildren who were mentioned in the books of 1607-XNUMX, and his great-grandson - in the XNUMX letter.
  13. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 06 New
    +2
    4. When and in what sense did the word "Ukrainians" first begin to be used in Little Russia?
    In the I half - the middle of the XVII century. the word "Ukrainians" (Ukraińców) was used by Poles - this is how the Polish gentry in Ukraine were denoted. M. Hrushevsky quotes from 2 reports of the crown hetman N. Potocki dated July 1651, translated from Polish into the modern Ukrainian language, in which the hetman uses the term "Panove of Ukraine" to designate the Polish landowners of Ukraine. The Poles never extended it to the Russian population of Ukraine. Among the peasants with. Snyatynka and Staroye Selo (now Lviv Oblast) in a Polish document of 1644 mentions someone with the personal name "Ukrainiec", as well as "Ukrainets' son-in-law" (Ukraińców zięć). The origin of such a name is not entirely clear, but it is obvious that the rest of the population was therefore not “Ukrainians”. From the middle of the XVII century. this term disappears from Polish documents.

    In the II half of the XVII century. Moscow subjects occasionally begin to use the word "Ukrainians" in relation to the Little Russian Cossacks. Moscow ambassadors A. Pronchishchev and A. Ivanov, sent to Warsaw in 1652, noted in a report that in the Polish capital they met six envoys of Hetman B. Khmelnitsky, among whom was "Ondrej Lysichinsky from Volyn, Ukrainian, and now lives in Boguslav ". The rest of the representatives of Khmelnytsky were natives of central or left-bank Ukraine. It is noteworthy that among all the ambassadors, only one Lisichinsky was named "Ukrainian"; thus, Pronchishchev and Ivanov meant that Lisichinsky was a former Polish nobleman, i.e. used Polish terminology.

    Croatian native Y. Krizhanich in his work, written in exile in Tobolsk in 1663-1666. (it was discovered and published only in 1859), twice uses the word "Ukrainians" as a synonym for the word "Cherkasy". His work, later called Politics, Krizhanich wrote in Latin in an artificial eclectic language - a mixture of Church Slavonic, common Russian and literary Croatian. The word "Ukrainians" Krizhanich could borrow from the Russian language or construct on his own: he was born in Bihac not far from the Krajna, where the Krajians lived (ie Horutans, or Slovenes).
  14. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 07 New
    +3
    5. When "Ukrainians" began to call the entire population of Ukraine-Little Russia?

    Outstanding military engineer Major General A.I. Rigelman (1720-1789) was a Russianized German who served in 1745-1749. in Little Russia and Slobodskaya Ukraine - having retired and in his declining years settled near Chernigov, he wrote "The Chronicle Narrative of Little Russia and its people and the Cossacks in general" (1785-1786). As already mentioned, the Cossacks lived in the Chernihiv region, in respect of whom the name "Ukrainians" was used. Rigelman for the first time extended the term "Ukrainians" to the entire population of Ukraine-Little Russia. The concepts "Ukrainians" and "Little Russians", as well as "Ukraine" and "Little Russia" were used by him as identical. Rigelman's manuscript was well known to historians and was involved in research (in particular, by D.N.Bantysh-Kamensky in his "History of Little Russia"), but none of the Little Russian historians - Rigelman's contemporaries (P. Simonovsky, S. Lukomsky, etc.) I did not use the word "Ukrainians" in that sense.

    A Polish émigré count, later a Russian official, Jan Potocki (1761-1815) published in 1795 in Paris in French a textbook of excerpts from ancient and early medieval writers entitled Historical and Geographical Fragments of Scythia, Sarmatia and the Slavs. In the introduction, he cited a list of Slavic peoples, among which appeared "Ukrainians" or "Little Russians" - a Slavic people separate from the "Russians", in ancient times divided into 4 tribes: Polyans, Drevlyans, Tivertsy and Northerners. Pototskiy for the first time (episodically) used the word "Ukrainians" as an ethnonym. It is interesting to note that it appears only 3 times, but in two forms of writing at once (les Uckrainiens, les Ukrainiens). According to the Polish count, the Russian people descended from the Novgorod Slovenes, and the Krivichi, Dregovichi and Buzhanians merged with the Ukrainian, Russian and partly Polish peoples. "Tribes of Galich and Vladimir" (Galicia and Volhynia) were produced by Pototsky from the Sarmatians. The author did not return to the Ukrainian theme anymore, and the concept itself was not developed either in other works of Potocki or among his contemporaries.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 18 September 2013 10: 45 New
      -2
      Quote: Egoza
      When "Ukrainians" began to call the entire population of Ukraine-Little Russia?

      An article from the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedia:

      Ukraine

      - this was the name of the southeastern Russian lands of the Rzeczpospolita. This name has never been official; it was used only in private use and became common in folk poetry. The boundaries of the lands, which were known under the name of "Ukrainian", are difficult to define, especially since this name was not stable and at different times embraced a different space. The best connoisseur of U. history in Polish times, A. Yablonovsky, believes that in the half of the 773th century, "the name U." embraced the Dnieper region - the Kiev povet (except for its northern, Drevlyansk-Seversky forest part), together with the city of Kiev , as well as the wild fields of the lower reaches of the Dnieper, with Zaporozhye; on the Bug region - the entire old Zvenigorod region on the "Blue Waters", the Bratslav povet, merging with the Ochakov field, and the eastern half of the Vinnytsia povet; the western half of this povet, on the Bug itself, was called, rather , Podillia, the Bratslav interfluve between the Dniester from the mouth of the Murakhva and the Bug - Poberezh. Thus, within the designated limits of the U. embraced the southeastern part of the present-day Podolsk province, a significant part of Kiev, perhaps only the southwestern part of Chernigov, the entire a significant part of the provinces of Yekaterinoslav and Kherson ("Slownik geograficnzy", v. XII, 774 - 1569) In ancient times, there were princedoms of Kiev, Pereyaslavl, partly Chernigov; Most of the southwestern Ukraine belonged to the Podolsk land. In the XIV century, all these lands fell under the rule of Lithuania, and from the time of the Union of Lublin (1482) - and Poland. MP Pogodin suggested that after the Tatar invasion, the entire population from these regions fled to the north, and instead of him a new population came from the Carpathians, and the resettlement itself took place imperceptibly. The same idea was expressed by Polish writers Grabowski and Shainokha, calling the new population of U. Polish immigrants. The opinion of the latter was repeated by Kulish in his "History of the Reunification of Rus". M.A.Maksimovich, and after him V. B. Antonovich proved that there was no resettlement of the people from south to north after the Tatar invasion, and also there was no desolation of U., which suffered even less from the Tatar invasion than Russia north-east. Much more important for U. was the invasion of the Crimean Khan Mengli-Girey in XNUMX, after which U., especially its southern part, was so devastated that it could not recover for a long time. The constant raids of the Tatars and later impeded the settlement of the region for a long time. Only at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, when these raids weakened, the region began to gradually be settled.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 18 September 2013 10: 52 New
        -1
        Quote: Corsair
        An article from the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedia:

        In the 1654 year, U. united with Moscow. Under the Andrusovsky agreement of 1667, the left-bank U. remained for Moscow, the right-bank - for Poland. Since that time, Little Russia has become the usual name for left-bank U. On the left bank of the Dnieper, Ukraine was officially called only U. Slobodskaya, i.e., the current Kharkov province. On the right side of the Dnieper, the name U. was preserved behind all the lands that formerly constituted the Kiev and Bratslav voivodships and remained in the possession of Poland until its fall. Wed Little Russia.
  15. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 08 New
    +2
    6. When did a separate Slavic people (ethnos) come to be understood as "Ukrainians"?

    At the turn of 1845-1846. in Kiev on the initiative of a young professor at the University of St. Vladimir N.I. Kostomarov (a student of Maksimovich), the "Cyril and Methodius Brotherhood" arose, which set itself the task of fighting for the creation of a Slavic federation, which was to include a free Ukraine. In the Charter of the brotherhood, Kostomarov wrote: "We accept that, when uniting, each Slavic tribe should have its own independence, and we recognize as such tribes: South Russes, North Russes with Belarusians, Poles, Czechs with [Slo] crowns, Lusatians, Illyro-Serbs with Khurutans and Bulgarians ". Thus, the author of the Charter used the artificial word "yuzhno-russy" opposed to them "north russians with Belarusians". Kostomarov's supporter Vasily Belozersky wrote an explanatory note to the Charter, which contained the following phrase: "None of the Slavic tribes are obliged to strive for identity to the same extent and excite the rest of the brothers, like we, Ukrainians." It is from this document that the history of the use of the word "Ukrainians" in the ethnic sense can be traced.
    1. Aleksandr
      Aleksandr 17 September 2013 09: 16 New
      -1
      You can also read Anatoly A. Klyosov at Zadornov on his blog http://mzadornov.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0% B8%
      D0%B9%20%D0%9A%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2
  16. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 09: 15 New
    +8
    You just need to LEARN history, and not run past it. And then no German can become a "pioneer"! You need to be a literate person! So that the word "small" is not associated only with size and does not acquire a dismissive connotation. A lot more could be written, but the short conclusion is -
    EDUCATION SHOULD BE AT HIGH LEVEL! ONLY UNBOARDED PEOPLE CAN BE PUSHED BY FORESTS! ONLY UNBOARDED PEOPLE CAN EASY TO MANIPULATE! AND IT IS THEREFORE, OUR EDUCATION NOW IS STRONGLY ATTEMPTING TO DEPLET!
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 17 September 2013 09: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Egoza
      EDUCATION SHOULD BE AT HIGH LEVEL! ONLY UNBOARDED PEOPLE CAN BE PUSHED BY FORESTS! ONLY UNBOARDED PEOPLE CAN EASY TO MANIPULATE! AND IT IS THEREFORE, OUR EDUCATION NOW IS STRONGLY ATTEMPTING TO DEPLET!

      And in our country they don't teach history in schools ... now they still want to write some kind of "unified" history textbook. And in it there will most likely be another Komsomol nonsense about "a great country with 20 years of history."
    2. washi
      washi 17 September 2013 11: 47 New
      +3
      Thanks for the details.
      Ukraine - Outskirts - Border.
      Well, a state cannot be called a "border" (translated into modern language), and all its inhabitants cannot be called border guards.
      Though?
  17. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 17 September 2013 10: 04 New
    +9
    Well, what can you say ... "You don't need a knife for a fool, he has three boxes LIE and do with him what you like. "
    The passionary part of the Little Russians tasted LYINGthat they are Ukrainian, ANCIENT AND EXCLUSIVE PEOPLE ... That's all ...
    About 20 years ago, a universal cry erupted about the exclusivity of Estonians. And you know why? Do not believe it.
    One of the local names for their land is marjamaa, which means (translated) - land of berries (maa - land, marja - berry). So they suddenly saw and yelled that this is not the land of berries, but, attention ... the land of Mary, the mother of Christ ... holy Land. And the ethnic group has gone into ecstasy.
    So here.
    1. tarks
      tarks 17 September 2013 11: 58 New
      +3
      The passionary part of the Little Russians tasted FALSE

      But did she come from somewhere, this lie?
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 17 September 2013 16: 52 New
        +3
        But did she come from somewhere, this lie?

        K. Prutkov said: "Look at the root." And someone else said: "If the stars are burning, then somebody needs it."
        Now apply this to your question (as well as to any similar). The root of where this lie came from is that anyone needs it. And then everything is simple. Those who need it are already 800 years old, like, literally on the surface. Is this the first time, the first year, the first century?
  18. ROA
    ROA 17 September 2013 11: 37 New
    +5
    To be Little Russia or Ukraine is the choice only of citizens of this state. (UN Convention on the Right of Nations to Self-Determination) For the emergence of modern Ukraine, it was not the Poles, not Germans, not Austrians, but the USSR, who made the most efforts. Under the USSR, the Ukrainization of Odessa, Donbass, Kiev and other Russian cities and villages began. Under the USSR, a boom in ethics began. So now we all amicably disentangling the Soviet past, constantly provoking physicians.
    1. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 19: 42 New
      +1
      damn plusanul you. but it hurts you have a dumb nick
  19. washi
    washi 17 September 2013 11: 55 New
    +2
    I watched Zadornov’s film about Rurik (based on a book by Ukrainian historians).
    Why do modern Germans recognize (although they recognized northern Russia as the land of the Aryans in the 19th century) that among their ancestors there are Slavs who were in kinship with Northwest Russia, and modern Ukrainians do not recognize this? Although Kiev was formed by the Northern Slavs.
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 17 September 2013 12: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Vasya
      I watched Zadornov’s film about Rurik (based on a book by Ukrainian historians).
      Why do modern Germans recognize (although they recognized northern Russia as the land of the Aryans in the 19th century) that among their ancestors there are Slavs who were in kinship with Northwest Russia, and modern Ukrainians do not recognize this? Although Kiev was formed by the Northern Slavs.

      Zadornov’s film does not pretend to be true ... it’s just his author’s vision of history. The most likely and officially recognized Norman theory, the foundations of Russia, as evidenced by the annals and a number of other facts, and Zadornov at the end of the film found out that the Rurikovichs still have Scandinavian blood.
      1. jasper
        jasper 17 September 2013 19: 43 New
        -1
        Norman theory was recognized only by Sovets historiography
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 19 September 2013 06: 28 New
          0
          Quote: yasenpen
          Norman theory was recognized only by Sovets historiography


          “In the year 6370 (862 according to modern calendar). ... And they went overseas to the Varangians, to Russia. Those Varangians were called Rus, as others are called Swedes, and other Normans and Angles, and also other Gotlanders - like these. Chud, Slovenia, Krivichi and the whole Russia said: “Our land is great and plentiful, but there is no order in it. Come reign and own us. " And three brothers with their clans were chosen, and took all Russia with them, and they came and sat the eldest, Rurik, in Novgorod, and the other, Sineus, on Beloozero, and the third, Truvor, in Izborsk. And from those Varangians the Russian land was nicknamed. Novgorodians are those people from the Varangian clan, and before that they were Slovenian ... ”

          Everything seems to be clearly written here.
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 13: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: Vasya
      Although Kiev was formed by the Northern Slavs.

      Well, finally Kiev was founded meadow - one of the tribes eastern Slavs.
      Only, I'm afraid that the theme of "kinship" of the Slavs is an "unplowed field" for lovers of all kinds of alternative history ...
    3. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 19: 43 New
      +1
      ask about this Gruschevsky and his patron Kaganovich hi
  20. Cristall
    Cristall 17 September 2013 12: 08 New
    +5
    the question is, why do you need all this?
    By the way, regarding the denial of all Russian. We are sitting with a Russian friend with an online game and talking in Cyrillic. She doesn’t care that Ukrainian is Russian-one Cyrillic. And the bourgeoisie can see krakazablik.
    Immediately howling - factoring rashin .. you think I began to deny
    For them, that Ukrainian is that Belarus is that Kazakh is all rashin. Well, they even always called the USSR Russia. And in all documentaries of the discovery and others ... the USSR is very rarely spoken.
    If they ask me something, yes, I clarify that I am Ukrainian and from Odessa (convenient city by the way, almost no complaints)
    and Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the passport and in spirit - oh how many. I would not call it nonsense. We have the whole city of such ... and not only here. Now they want to destroy us a little wink
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 13: 11 New
      +6
      Quote: Cristall
      that I am Ukrainian and from Odessa (convenient way by the way, almost no complaints)

      Odessa is a monstrous alloy of all peoples and ethnic groups of the south of Russia and the Black Sea region. Well, and of course "our people" - where without them, God's chosen ones? laughing
      At all times, from Duke Richelieu to recent history, the inhabitants of Odessa (but not the region) considered themselves (and, probably, fairly), owe nothing to anyone.
      But the "hour of truth" has come, and the citizens of Odessa were faced with a choice. Strongly reminiscent of the history of the Rusyns in Austria-Hungary on the eve of the First World War ... The consequences, I think, will be similar.
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 17 September 2013 22: 51 New
        +3
        Yes, they always behaved like that .. as far as I remember they sent official Kiev to hell, and there were even thoughts to separate themselves altogether. So to speak to revive Porto Franco ..
        We still have the behavior that Kiev is not a decree for us (far away and it’s not at all our city) although of course this is not so. Kiev imposes the administration on us, but with success the local one, which at least pretends that the Russian language protects culture as well (the city was the first to accept the status of Russian as regional, but damn it, almost all films are broadcast in Ukrainian, but it is not remembered by any means)
        But if you judge, in Odessa, monuments are erected typically to ours. Catherine 2 (she is the Westerners generally namber 1 for "atrocities") Potemkin, Resilier, Pushkin, something dofiga began to put - there are many posters with his phrases and quotes. Posters with a call to preserve Russian culture through language. In short, the originality .. not for nothing the city is very disliked by the fans of Farion - we are now liquid munitions for them. Still - a city in Russian. Although they put tax on our language, they firmly believe that we are spreading rot on the ability of most of the population to desire to speak Ukrainian!
        And the rafting here is really monstrous ... the most beautiful women and girls here ... I was in St. Petersburg, in the Crimea, Lviv and others .. there were few where but our people just got a little light ... they say from a mixture of Slavs with Greeks, Moldovans and others .. .
        True, the city was founded by the Russian Empress, created by the French, the 3rd largest port of RI. A friend from Kiev tried in vain to prove to me that the Ukrainian Cossacks founded the city ... I almost remembered Olbia))) and asked where we would have been if not for the Empress’s decision on the port and the persistence of the mayors for its construction and maintenance ... would freelance Zhmerinka ....
        The city does not become Ukrainian. It certainly bears the features of an era .. but remains Odessa.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 23: 58 New
          +5
          Quote: Cristall
          ..there are beautiful women and girls ..

          I do remember... wassat
          And I also remember the Odessa joke: "The dream of a woman from Odessa is a blind-deaf-mute captain of a long voyage."
          laughing
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 18 September 2013 10: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Cristall
          that the city was founded by Ukrainian Cossacks ...
          In fact, according to some reports, it was in this area where the capital of the Amazon kingdom was once
    2. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 September 2013 17: 34 New
      +1
      If they ask me something, yes, I clarify that I am Ukrainian and from Odessa

      Odessa is a wonderful city, I rested there the whole of August 1981, the rest house of the Odessa cable factory, on Kotovsky road, stop. A cotton-wool factory tram, not far from Luzanovka. It's cool that this holiday home is located directly on the territory of this plant.
      And then I visited Odessa.
      But I'm talking about something else. Let's take a closer look at Odessa ... The Ukrainian city was founded by a Frenchman, by decree of the Russian Empress, a German ... smile
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 17 September 2013 17: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Peaceful military
        Let's take a closer look at Odessa ... The Ukrainian city was founded by a Frenchman, by decree of the Russian Empress, a German ...

        And if you take a closer look, it is clearly visible that the once famous and unique Odessa is simply becoming weaker, losing, among other things, its unique flavor. It becomes an ordinary Ukrainian small town, alas ... Like Sevastopol, by the way, even though it’s not so noticeable there sad
        1. Essenger
          Essenger 17 September 2013 17: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          . Becomes an ordinary Ukrainian city


          and this is good
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 17 September 2013 17: 53 New
            +7
            Quote: Essenger
            Quote: Misantrop
            . Becomes an ordinary Ukrainian city

            and this is good


            In vain you are so ...
            Odessa was, is and will be a beauty.
            And the color of the inhabitants inhabiting it is unique.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 17 September 2013 18: 52 New
            +2
            Quote: Essenger
            and this is good
            Is it good that the once famous city is deteriorating and degrading? And what exactly is this good at?
            1. Essenger
              Essenger 17 September 2013 21: 11 New
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              Quote: Essenger
              and this is good
              Is it good that the once famous city is deteriorating and degrading? And what exactly is this good at?


              it's good that she becomes Ukrainian
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 17 September 2013 21: 25 New
                +3
                Quote: Essenger
                it's good that she becomes Ukrainian

                Quote: yasenpen
                freelance city ukroiny with a folding industry and port

                Typical signs of Ukrainization ... hi
                1. Essenger
                  Essenger 18 September 2013 09: 54 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Quote: Essenger
                  it's good that she becomes Ukrainian

                  Quote: yasenpen
                  freelance city ukroiny with a folding industry and port

                  Typical signs of Ukrainization ... hi


                  Do you want Russification? in KZ there should be Kazakhification, in Ukrainian Ukrainification and all.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 18 September 2013 10: 26 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Essenger
                    Do you want Russification?
                    I want every freshly appointed r ... but (more often than not - dumb and narcissistic to the limit) not try to redraw the surrounding reality. Or do I want too much? what
                    1. stalkerwalker
                      stalkerwalker 18 September 2013 14: 49 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      Quote: Essenger
                      Do you want Russification? I want every freshly appointed r ... but (more often than not - dumb and narcissistic to the limit) not try to redraw the surrounding reality. Or do I want too much?


                      ...- fiction is the easiest thing that the next government can do - low cost. But raises self-esteem.
                      National populism is the road leading a "blind" but "proud" people to self-isolation.
                    2. Essenger
                      Essenger 18 September 2013 20: 23 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      Quote: Essenger
                      Do you want Russification?
                      I want every freshly appointed r ... but (more often than not - dumb and narcissistic to the limit) not try to redraw the surrounding reality. Or do I want too much? what


                      In a unitary state, the opinion of a national minority should not prevail over the opinion of the majority.
                      If you do not want to be Ukrainian, a suitcase-station-homeland.
  21. Sergeant
    Sergeant 17 September 2013 12: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: tronin.maxim
    I will say this: ignorance of their REAL history slowly and brutally destroys the people, corrupting and degrading it falls down turning into biorobots, traders and consumers.


    To a no lesser extent this applies to modern Russia!

    Can we bow too low to the dollar?
  22. polly
    polly 17 September 2013 12: 10 New
    +6
    At the end of the century before last, my maternal ancestors, two years on oxen, traveled to the Far East, traveling through vast expanses in carts with all their belongings and young children. And relatives always said that they came from the Chernihiv province. All. No more going on. Because for them then the Far East (officially these lands were then called "East Siberian outskirts") was more likely not Russia than Chernihiv. So then all these native names Khvalynka, Gayvoron, Galenki, Chernihivka and dozens of others appeared on the map of the South Ussuri Territory (now Primorsky) ... So what else can you talk about and how much to argue about the unity of the people? Unless to complain about the collapse of Kievan Rus in the 12th century ... There is no doubt that the creation of national entities in the country instead of dividing into administrative territories played a very negative role.
    And the apologists for creating the “great Ukrov” would like to answer with the old Russian proverb: “Crazy chamber, but the key is lost”!
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 17 September 2013 12: 26 New
      +2
      I agree with you in many ways.
    2. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 19: 47 New
      +2
      it is the unity of the people that is the nightmare of banking
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop 18 September 2013 10: 28 New
      0
      Quote: polly
      At the end of the century before last, my maternal ancestors, two years on oxen, traveled to the Far East, traveling through vast expanses in carts with all their belongings and young children.
      The ancestors of my mother-in-law - too, only they left in 1907
  23. Moon
    Moon 17 September 2013 12: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: NUT


    “The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it. It is necessary not only to tear off, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, to pit two parts of a single people and to watch how the brother will kill his brother. To do this, you just need to find and nurture the TRADERS among the national elite and, with their help, change the self-awareness of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. ”
    Prince Otto von Bismarck

    The quote is most likely fictitious, for Bismarck could not operate with modern terms "national elite", "self-consciousness". He could not even say that "a brother is killing a brother", since everything that was located east of Silesia and south of Pomerania with Ost-Proisen was either Poland or Russia. Bismarck could only suspect about the word "Ukraine"
    http://ru.wikiquote.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0

    %B8%D0%B5:%D0%9E%D1%82%D1%82%D0%BE_%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BC%D

    0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA
  24. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 17 September 2013 12: 36 New
    0
    One gets the impression from the article that everything is evil ... from UKR

    Well, they want to be called UKRAINIANS, let - what difference does it make to us ...

    And the story is Doubtful thing (its people write - which tend to make an ERROR or to BE WRONG), only in my humble memory has the history of the USSR been re-taught a few times ...
  25. agbykov
    agbykov 17 September 2013 12: 56 New
    +3
    The word "small" is also used in the concept of "small homeland".
  26. Egoza
    Egoza 17 September 2013 13: 30 New
    0
    But in general, such articles and their discussion are needed. Including VO. People begin to think, look for sources, learn something new, change their minds, transfer new knowledge. So don't be angry with the frequency of such articles. THIS IS OUR STORY! The more we find out, the less we and our children can be fooled. (Doesn't apply to trolls and stupid fanatics) And pah-pah in this discussion there is no s ... cha like "he is like that." Learning?
  27. artem772
    artem772 17 September 2013 15: 16 New
    +1
    Why then not "Malopolsha"?
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 17 September 2013 17: 02 New
      0
      So here we must try to bite more painfully. And small Poland is not a cool topic ...))
    2. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 19: 49 New
      +1
      there is such a region in Poland, around Krakow laughing
  28. zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 17 September 2013 15: 19 New
    +1
    Another message, calculated on the squabble in the comments.
    IN, began to fade. I do not recognize you.
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 17 September 2013 17: 04 New
      0
      This message, like all articles, is designed to ensure that everyone crap with everyone. Divide and conquer sir. Plus there is fertile soil in the form of a bouquet of complexes after the collapse of the USSR.
      1. jasper
        jasper 17 September 2013 19: 50 New
        0
        Yes, no, they divided us with the formation of the USSR, and the division of Russia into republics, right now the truth emerges in disputes
    2. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 September 2013 17: 42 New
      +1
      Another message, calculated on the squabble in the comments.

      I do not see such a promise here. Prone to bickering in any topic, in any post will find a reason.
      But I see in this article another attempt at black to say that it is black, and not the black dog that is washed. hi
  29. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 17 September 2013 18: 15 New
    +3
    Ukr_ov vomits his head from exclusivity and antiquity.
    And at our titular, it has already reached the teachings of their former masters.
    President Ilves teaches Swedes defense: Russia's training attack on Sweden is an alarming signal for the Baltic countries. http://rus.delfi.ee/daily/estonia/prezident-ilves-uchit-shvedov-oborone-uchebnay
    a-ataka-rossii-na-shveciyu-trevozhnyj-signal-dlya-stran-baltii.d? id = 66749831 laughing
    By the way, in Estonia the president is not elected by the people, but elected ... by parliament.laughing
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 17 September 2013 18: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Peaceful military
      in Estonia, the president is not elected by the people, but elected ... by parliament.
      Well it is clear. With their eternal "haste", the people would still elect their first president laughing
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 17 September 2013 19: 12 New
        +3
        Well it is clear. With their eternal "haste", the people would still elect their first president

        And here it is not, for in the titular parliament they are not elected according to the speed of reaction.laughing
        By the way, all non-title ones are deprived of the right to vote in the election of members of parliament. I am not kidding.
        BUT!
        I wanted to tell you something else.
        ATTENTION!
        When, during the procedures of their simultaneous admission to the EU and NATO, the titular were asked what, they say, friends, we had to take you there and there (urgently, before it is too late, you need to announce a sanitary cordon from Russia), but we have, as it were, democracy, and you appoint your president by the decision of the parliament, can you change it? Here ... the title said: "OUR PEOPLE HAS NOT STILL RAPE UP TO THE UNIVERSAL CHOICE OF ITS PRES-A" laughing
        I will not exaggerate at all.
  30. Misantrop
    Misantrop 17 September 2013 19: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: Peaceful military
    I will not exaggerate at all.
    I know. I have seen enough of these people during business trips to Paldiski ...
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 September 2013 20: 03 New
      +1
      I know. I have seen enough of these people during business trips to Paldiski ...

      And now there is the center of the Estonian-NATO expeditionary force. There, now, in addition to the title rangers, recently landed a couple of thousand staff, with equipment, etc.
      Not stupid strategists played back a frail port terminal where they redirected a significant part of the passenger-thunderstorm communication with Sweden and Denmark.
      So the look of Paldiski has changed completely.
      Speaking of Paldiski, if you don't know. Paldiski is an Estonian pronunciation of the name Baltic, which was given to this city by Peter I. By the way, Salavat Yulaev was serving his term there.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 17 September 2013 21: 14 New
        +3
        Quote: Peaceful military
        And now there is the center of the Estonian-NATO expeditionary force. There, now, in addition to the title rangers, recently landed a couple of thousand staff, with equipment, etc.
        Who would doubt the place has long been nourished wink There, near the third site, the ruins of the Abwehr intelligence school during WWII.
        Quote: Peaceful military
        Salavat Yulaev served his term there.
        Nowadays, this building housed the military commandant of the garrison. And on it was a memorial tablet
  31. My address
    My address 17 September 2013 19: 41 New
    +2
    I think a little differently:
    1. We, individually, who need? Like friends, allies, helpers? Not one against the other? Probably not.
    2. Will it be easier and better together? Rather, yes.
    3. When we were together, we were better? Yes of course.
    4. Does a lot connect us? Yes, dofiga and even more.
    ......................................................
    Conclusion:
  32. Pensioner
    Pensioner 17 September 2013 19: 57 New
    +3
    The author of the article expresses the inner essence, the underlying, of many, many Ukrainians, that inside they feel the same underlying Russian essence - strength and power. Deep feelings and self-awareness are higher than any materialistic and ideological calculations, much less political ones. And the Russian Spirit is reviving more and more in everyone, regardless of blood. In everyone whose ancestors lived on this earth, and in descendants of different bloods. Ukrainians, Chechens and Kazakhs and Balts, Jews and the same can be offended for my comments Americans, Europeans in different forums. But my comments are love, love for all nations and the desire to explain to everyone that you trust your Russian and a drop of blood (which you yourself probably don’t know about), that Russian true Spirit of love, unity - and you will save not only yourself, but also to my descendants. The author of the article is my lowest bow! There would be more of such- and Ukraine would be saved.
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 September 2013 20: 13 New
      +6
      Dear Victoria!
      YES YES YES!
      BUT!
      So far, unfortunately, everything is not in favor of your views.
      BUT!
      WE WILL NOT GIVE UP!
      "LET'S TAKE THE HANDS OF FRIENDS, so as not to miss alone"
      - B. Okudzhava.
      1. My address
        My address 17 September 2013 20: 23 New
        +4
        I consider Vysotsky, Andrey, better:
        - So lay, lay, you at least a tunnel along the bottom of the river
        - And without fear, come to the wine and kebabs
        - And bring a guitar, tightening the splitting on it
        - But do not forget, blunt, your sharp fangs
        1. Peaceful military
          Peaceful military 17 September 2013 20: 28 New
          +4
          Dear Alexander!
          What you remembered will be a consequence of if we really hold hands as friends.
    2. jasper
      jasper 17 September 2013 20: 50 New
      +2
      Your lips, yes, drink honey!
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 September 2013 10: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Retired
      But my comments are love, love for all nations and the desire to explain to everyone that you trust your Russian and a drop of blood (which you yourself probably don’t know about), that Russian true Spirit of love, unity - and you will save not only yourself, but also their descendants.

      Eeee ... Become a Kazakh woman, save your descendants.
  33. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 17 September 2013 20: 07 New
    +1
    Here is what awaits Ukr_ainu (including): The state will not translate laws into Russian - the government again did not support the idea. http://rus.delfi.ee/daily/estonia/gosudarstvo-ne-budet-perevodit-zakony-na-russk
    ij-pravitelstvo-vnov-ne-podderzhalo-ideyu.d? id = 66751307
    sad
  34. vignat21
    vignat21 17 September 2013 20: 39 New
    +3
    “Ukrainians” are a special kind of people. Born Russian, the Ukrainian does not feel Russian, denies in himself his “Russianness” and viciously hates everything Russian. He agrees to be called a wardrobe trunk, a Hottentot - anyone, but not a Russian. words: Rus, Russian, Russia, Russian - act on him like a red scarf on a bull. Without foam at the mouth, he cannot hear them. But Ukrainians are especially annoyed by the ancient, ancestral names: Little Russia, Little Russia, Little Russian, Little Russian. hearing them, he frantically shouts: "Chase!" ("Shame!" From Polish hanba). This is due to the fact that many of the “Ukrainians”, out of stupidity and ignorance, believe that there is something disdainful or contemptuous in these names in relation to the population of southern Russia. We have not met a single "Ukrainian" who would want to listen to the scientific explanation of these names and correctly assimilate their MEANING. ' For the Little Russian Storozhenko in 1924, when he wrote this essay, the Russophobia of the "Ukrainians" was so difficult to explain that he tried to substantiate it from the standpoint of a very popular and authoritative racial theory at that time: they say, although Little Russians are Russians, they contain a large admixture of Turkic blood. “Observations of the mixing of races show,” he writes, “that in subsequent generations, when crossbreeding occurs only within one people, nevertheless, individuals can be born that reproduce in a pure form the ancestor of someone else’s blood.”
    1. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 September 2013 20: 50 New
      +1
      Dear Vitali!
      Thanks for the quote!
      Only to her there is not enough explanation why the public is behaving this way ...
  35. vignat21
    vignat21 17 September 2013 20: 39 New
    +2
    “Ukrainians” are a special kind of people. Born Russian, the Ukrainian does not feel Russian, denies in himself his “Russianness” and viciously hates everything Russian. He agrees to be called a wardrobe trunk, a Hottentot - anyone, but not a Russian. words: Rus, Russian, Russia, Russian - act on him like a red scarf on a bull. Without foam at the mouth, he cannot hear them. But Ukrainians are especially annoyed by the ancient, ancestral names: Little Russia, Little Russia, Little Russian, Little Russian. hearing them, he frantically shouts: "Chase!" ("Shame!" From Polish hanba). This is due to the fact that many of the "Ukrainians", out of stupidity and ignorance, believe that the former names cover something contemptuous or contemptuous in relation to the population of southern Russia. We have not met a single "Ukrainian" who would want to listen to the scientific explanation of these names and correctly assimilate their MEANING. ' For the Little Russian Storozhenko in 1924, when he wrote this essay, the Russophobia of the "Ukrainians" was so difficult to explain that he tried to substantiate it from the standpoint of a very popular and authoritative racial theory at that time: they say, although Little Russians are Russians, they contain a large admixture of Turkic blood. “Observations of the mixing of races show,” he writes, “that in subsequent generations, when crossbreeding occurs only within one people, nevertheless, individuals can be born that reproduce in a pure form the ancestor of someone else’s blood.”
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 18 September 2013 09: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: vignat21
      But the old, ancestral names are particularly annoying Ukrainians: Little Russia, Little Russia, Little Russian, Little Russian. hearing them, he screams furiously: “Chase!” ("Shame!" From Polish. Hanba). This is explained by the fact that many of the “Ukrainians,” out of stupidity and ignorance, believe that there was something scornful or disdainful about the population of southern Russia behind these names.
      But in fact, here the ancestors simply took into account the peculiarity of the mentality. "Little Russian" is a Ross, which is always LITTLE, no matter how much you give it ... request lol
  36. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 17 September 2013 21: 00 New
    +3
    -------------------------------
    1. So_o_tozh
      So_o_tozh 18 September 2013 02: 03 New
      0
      You look at your flag, or rather, remember black-yellow-white ... or the Dutch flag spioned by Peter 1 ...
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 18 September 2013 10: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: So_o_tozh
        remember the black-yellow-white ... or the Dutch flag spioned by Peter the Great ...

        The red "bird" on a white background, which has become the symbol of Y. Tymoshenko, was originally developed by a company specializing in the production of women's pads lol
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 18 September 2013 10: 32 New
        0
        Quote: So_o_tozh
        You look at your flag, or rather, remember black-yellow-white ... or the Dutch flag spioned by Peter 1 ...


        Data from Wikipedia

        Clickable Image:
  37. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 17 September 2013 21: 00 New
    +3
    -------------------------------------------
    1. So_o_tozh
      So_o_tozh 18 September 2013 02: 08 New
      -1
      Well, sho? Or do you think that all of this went wrong for us? Well, try to take it away ... Alive the face with all those yearning for the Crimea and the rest with imperial manners soldier
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 18 September 2013 10: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: So_o_tozh
        Well, sho? Or do you think that all of this went wrong for us? Well, try to take it ...
        Remember the famous: "It will not be enough! Not enough! .." (c) laughing
  38. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 18 September 2013 01: 57 New
    0
    Quote: MstislavHrabr
    And a young generation of Russians is already growing up who is ready to consider themselves to be Ukrainians, Tatars by anyone - just not to consider themselves to be a people who surrendered without a fight to a miserable bunch of unfinished nomads ...

    Do not write a lie here, a Ukrainian in Ukraine sounds proud, we are proud of our roots, but first of all we remember not Kievan Rus, but the Zaporizhzhya Sich, for centuries we ourselves have fought against Tatars, Poles and other Turks. Russia after 1648 after the Pereyaslav Rada, only after 6 years began the policy of subordination of Ukraine, we have too independent spirit, therefore we have dislike for the Poles at the genetic level ... And thanks to the Pereyaslav Rada, Russia got a chance to get out of the bear’s corner and get into European affairs.
  39. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 18 September 2013 02: 14 New
    +1
    angry Well this is on the topic ...)))
  40. Arkan
    Arkan 18 September 2013 06: 25 New
    0
    Here they are the fruits of a deliberate policy of extermination of the people! The substitution of history for stories and dirty political jokes, led to the fact that part of the nation broke away from the Russian world. Now this split exists so far territorially, but it will be followed by a mental split, then an absolutely foreign nation will live west of Smolensk.
  41. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 18 September 2013 11: 54 New
    0
    As I understand it, what is the difference between a Ukrainian and a Russian, or how they like to talk here about the main, first, historical, little Russian from a Russian living east of Kiev from that Russian who was the very first Russian, but became small and the youngest extinct halfway around the world) )) about white / s Russians skip so far, so that's what I mean recourse And, well, yes, so the Ukrainians, most importantly, Schaub didn’t touch them and he would have been better off than his neighbor ..., i.e. Ukrainian counts only on himself. But for Russians, the main Schaub was HOLD, and you can tolerate a lot of fun, but you could always say we would show them Kuzkin mother, why am I wrong? laughing
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 18 September 2013 13: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      why am i wrong?
      Not right. Because not
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      what would he have been better than his neighbor ...
      and the neighbor’s Schaub was worse than his laughing
  42. Wynd
    Wynd 19 September 2013 11: 33 New
    +1
    It is wild that Kiev and Moscow are the capitals of independent states, it’s the same as Mother gives up her daughter, and the daughter does not recognize her mother ... Call it what you like - independent, independent, etc., but what to be proud of if you have unified state? That we celebrate our independence fool , in my opinion, greatly amuses our real enemies and ill-wishers.
  43. Mercury
    Mercury 5 December 2014 16: 34 New
    +2
    If everything the author says is explained to people in Ukraine at school. And in Belarus the same situation, nationalism is blooming. The fruits of the collapse of the USSR, although in Ukraine and in Soviet times, Bandera felt masters.