Military Review

Generals Criticize F-15

128
Generals Criticize F-15

Seventeen retired generals who in the past occupied the post of chief of staff of the South Korean Air Force sent an open letter to the presidential administration, the Ministry of Defense and the country's parliament demanding that F-60 SE fighter planes be abandoned. According to the military, the planes are already outdated and cannot be called "next-generation fighter aircraft", which Seoul intended to acquire for its Air Force as part of its rearmament program. The purchase decision can be made in the coming days.


Recall that at the moment the Administration of Defense Procurement Programs (APOZ) of the Republic of Korea is holding a tender for the second stage of the renewal of the fleet of combat aircraft for the Air Force of the country. The project is called FX. Seoul intends to purchase 60 combat vehicles, for which 8 trillions of 300 billions (7,45 billion dollars) have been allocated. This is the largest defense order of South Korea for the entire post-war history, because of what he was already dubbed "the contract of the century." From the outset, there were three applicants: the American Lockheed Martin concern, which offered the F-35А fighter, also representing the US Boeing with the F-15SE Silent Eagle aircraft and the European EADS concern with the Eurofighter Mk III Typhoon. However, F-35, which has long been considered the favorite, was rejected due to overcharging, and Eurofighter due to breach of contract terms. As a result, F-15SE fighters of the Boeing concern were the only contenders to reach the final stage. Seoul now must either call him the winner of the tender, or cancel the results and start all over again.

As reported by Enkhap news agency, 17 air force generals, who in the past at various times occupied the post of chief of staff of the air force, wrote an open letter to the country's leadership. The message was delivered to the addressees of August 27, but it is only now that senior military officials are aware of this step.

In the letter, the generals strongly oppose the purchase of F-15SE, considering it to be outdated and not meeting the requirements of the next generation aircraft. They recall that the F-15 was developed as early as the 1970-ies. and can not be used for a long time, as it began to become obsolete. In addition, it is emphasized that the model proposed by Korea is not yet fully ready.

Strong criticism was voiced to the government and the Ministry of Defense, on whose behalf the Agency of Defense Procurement Programs of the Republic of Korea operates. “APOZ applied the absurd principle, saying that it would not even increase 10 won the contract value in 8,3 trillion won. The entire FX project should be revised from the very beginning, changing the evaluation criteria,” the letter says.

The media notes that many military pilots agree with this position, considering that F-15SE cannot be operated for the next 30 years, as planned by the rearmament program. According to rumors, the Air Force of South Korea would like to purchase the F-35, which are the only contenders to be the fifth-generation “invisible fighters”. Note that during the first stage of rearmament of the Korean Air Force a few years earlier, Seoul had already bought 60 aircraft from the Boeing concern.

The decision on the project can be made in the coming days. An expanded meeting of the APLA chaired by Korean Defense Minister Kim Gwan Jin is scheduled for September at 20-21. The military can call Boeing a winner, take more time to study the issue further, or announce the cancellation of tender results.
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  1. ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 13 September 2013 09: 41 New
    31
    As if the South Koreans have a choice ... Americans need to sell their obsolete products ...
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 13 September 2013 09: 52 New
      17
      Considering how much the US still has such an "obsolete" technique. Many countries of the NATO bloc and not only will not have a choice in the purchase of equipment)))
      1. Aryan
        Aryan 13 September 2013 10: 00 New
        +9
        SE probably should be understood as
        second edition
        Tipo Second Edition? how with windows?
        or does it mean something else?
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 13 September 2013 10: 04 New
          14
          Quote: Aryan
          SE probably should be understood as

          SE - Silent Eagle, silent eagle.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 13 September 2013 15: 48 New
            18
            Quote: Vladimirets
            SE - Silent Eagle, silent eagle.


            Immediately remembered Sleepy Ermine "hot heads"
        2. il grand casino
          il grand casino 13 September 2013 10: 05 New
          +5
          Quote: Aryan
          SE probably should be understood as
          second edition
          Tipo Second Edition? how with windows?
          or does it mean something else?


          The main thing is not Sekond Hand =)
          1. patsantre
            patsantre 14 September 2013 01: 07 New
            +1
            second hand?
        3. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 13 September 2013 11: 50 New
          14
          F-15SE, considering it outdated and not meeting the requirements of the next generation aircraft. They recall that the F-15 was developed back in the 1970s. and cannot be used for a long time

          At least to date, the United States does not have a better strike aircraft. I don’t think that buying in exchange for the F-15 CE, F-Z5 is a good idea, though ... how to look at it. The Korean North’s military sincerely smiles at such a replacement - an honest hard worker who has passed more than one conflict on a poorly flying iron. And do not start answers such as "high intelligence of the board, powerful and modern avionics" all this will not override its minuses. It will be effective only with overwhelming dominance in the air and the absence of a more or less effective air defense.
          1. bif
            bif 13 September 2013 17: 13 New
            +5
            You will be even more pleased, but, given the historical experience of such “Appeals,” .... it’s just a cry from the military-industrial complex (Lockheed) to increase the amount of the tender, then they will fit into the price with their “wonderful” f-35. Here’s the key offer - "APOZ applied the absurd principle, saying that it would not even increase 10 won the contract value in 8,3 trillion won. The entire FX project should be reviewed from the very beginning, changing the evaluation criteria," the letter said.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 September 2013 10: 53 New
        13
        Quote: ....
        According to the military, the planes are already outdated and cannot be called "next-generation fighters,"

        Aircraft as a 4 ++ generation aircraft using technologies for reducing radar visibility. I don’t like making your own or buying a great MiG-21. They’re just being upgraded now, and MiG has the ability to reduce the effective dispersion surface (EPR) of MiG-21 bis fighters by covering them with radar absorbing material. And for example, the MIG-21-93, a perfectly modernized MIG Wins over the F-15 and F-16. By the way officially!
        1. duke
          duke 13 September 2013 10: 58 New
          +4
          or let them buy a su-35, than not an option good
          1. bif
            bif 13 September 2013 17: 19 New
            +1
            will be VERY surprised, but such Appeals were already in the distant 1998 year))))
            "What could be more ironic ... Soviet fighters for the American Navy?
            Bob Kress, former Lead Program Engineer Grumman and F-14 Chief Program Engineer and retired Rear Admiral, former naval fighter pilot Paul Gilikrist provide convincing arguments ... http: //suavia.info/page/22 /
        2. postman
          postman 13 September 2013 11: 28 New
          +1
          Quote: Vadivak
          And for example, the MIG-21-93, a perfectly modernized MIG Wins over the F-15 and F-16. By the way officially!

          ??
          Seriously, where when?
          Buffalo:

          The Indian Air Force (IAF) is now adding stealth modifications to an existing $ 340m program to upgrade 125 of its MiG-21bis fighters to MiG-21-93 standard.
          $ 340 / $ 000 = $ 000 worth of pleasure. NOT EXPENSIVE
          Confuses the fiction declared in LTH


          "The radius of combat use, km 1000

          Ferry range, km 2000 "

          the combat radius was 1000 km with 1790 kg of fuel
          ??


          23rd is even cooler:

          "The radius of combat use, km 1470
          Ferry range, km 2820 "
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 13 September 2013 15: 30 New
            +4
            Quote: Postman
            This is serious,

            According to the OKB, the MiG-21-93 in a medium-range combat will be equivalent to the Mirage 2000 fighter and better than the F-16.

            Recently, a number of media reported on the participation of the upgraded MiG-21BIS UPG fighters of the Indian Air Force in training air battles with the American F-15C fighters. During them, the American fighter was repeatedly conditionally shot down by Miga attacks.

            Here is how the deputy general director, first deputy general designer of the Fazotron-NIIR corporation, Yuri Guskov, commented on Interfax-AVN: 'Two modernized MiG-21BIS UPG (Bison) aircraft equipped with the Spear-radar participated in the Indian-American military exercises 21I 'development and production of the corporation' Fazotron-NIIR '. A report by one of the Russian media that the upgraded MiG - 21 Bison was allegedly equipped with Israeli electronics is not true. The basis of this modernization is the Spear-21I radar
            1. postman
              postman 14 September 2013 00: 52 New
              +1
              Vadim ... well, it's not really:
              Quote: Vadivak
              Defeats the F-15 and F-16. By the way officially!

              it's ... like a press.
              I heard that the upgraded Mig-23 yes ...
              about 21 is poorly trusted. All generations are not the same.
              Note:
              'Spear-21I'- how ours managed to "pack" into the central cone-xs, the mind is incomprehensible.
              in terms of parameters it (radar) is certainly worse than the 29th.
              But ...
              Quote: Vadivak
              Two modernized aircraft took part in Indian-American military exercises

              I watched an Indian record, I didn’t understand a damn thing, but I didn’t find about the “victory” either.
        3. Basileus
          Basileus 13 September 2013 11: 29 New
          +2
          And can you elaborate on the account of victories? I want to be happy for the domestic aviation industry)
        4. Argon
          Argon 13 September 2013 11: 33 New
          +1
          And in the photo, the Pakistani J-6 developed by China as an export version.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 13 September 2013 15: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: Argon
            And in the photo, the Pakistani J-6 developed by China as an export version

            In vain you pin up Vadivak. In the photo Mig-21 (J-7). J-6 is our Mig-19.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 13 September 2013 15: 42 New
              +5
              Quote: Odyssey
              Nothing to pin up Vadivak.



              Yes, let it be as much as you like, at least the Chengdu J-7E, even the F-BS, one horseradish MiG-21F-13.

              It is already problematic to single out the results of the battles between the MiG-21 and the Phantom today, although the ratio of 1,4: 1 in favor of the North Vietnamese fighter is reliably known. It would seem that talking about a resounding victory with such a balance is impossible. But only if you do not take into account the following fact: MiGs success was achieved with a six-fold numerical superiority of the enemy.
              1. Avenger711
                Avenger711 13 September 2013 21: 34 New
                +1
                With ambush tactics completely. Amer truly believe that the bill is in their favor. In general, the score of frags of each of the parties can be divided by 3-6.
        5. Odysseus
          Odysseus 13 September 2013 15: 02 New
          +8
          Quote: Vadivak
          Aircraft as a 4 ++ generation aircraft using technologies for reducing radar visibility. Do not like making your own or buy a MiG-21 great car They are now just being upgraded

          Considering that they were once offered the Su-35 and they didn’t take it, the idea of ​​pushing the MiG-21 to them looks cynical smile
          But, by the way, the Mig-21-93 is a really decent car.
          Quote: Vadivak
          They are now being upgraded, and MiG has the ability to reduce the effective dispersion surface (EPR) of the MiG-21 bis fighter due to their coating with radar absorbing material.

          The Mig-21 "by nature" has a small EPR. If you also cover the RPM, you get the "Silent Balalaika"
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 13 September 2013 16: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Odyssey
            The Mig-21 "by nature" has a small EPR. If you also cover the RPM, you get the "Silent Balalaika"


            Same as the F-16. 3 sqm but the lion's share of the EPR (without external suspensions) is given, oddly enough, by the engine compressors and at the 21st compressor blades are “screened” by the air intake wedge

            For comparison, the modernized B-52 25-100, by the way the S-300 air defense system, is capable of firing targets with an EPR of 0.02 m ^ 2
            1. Odysseus
              Odysseus 13 September 2013 17: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: Vadivak

              Same as the F-16. 3 sqm but the lion's share of the EPR (without external suspensions) is given, oddly enough, by the engine compressors and at the 21st compressor blades are “screened” by the air intake wedge

              Even a little smaller than the F-16C. And this is without RPM. It’s hard to push one pitifully powerful radar into the Mig-21.
              Quote: Vadivak
              By the way, the S-300 SAM, is capable of firing targets with an EPR of 0.02 m ^ 2

              Probably capable, we must ask the anti-aircraft gunners, but the target with an epr of 0,02 is tough ... It’s difficult to shoot down in time.
              1. Fofan
                Fofan 13 September 2013 22: 17 New
                +1
                Quote: Odyssey

                Even a little smaller than the F-16C. And this is without RPM. It’s hard to push one pitifully powerful radar into the Mig-21.
                do not push anything anywhere. Now there are hanging containers with additional equipment.
        6. Pimply
          Pimply 13 September 2013 16: 34 New
          -1
          Quote: Vadivak
          And for example, the MIG-21-93, a perfectly modernized MIG Wins over the F-15 and F-16. By the way officially!

          More on this, plz
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 13 September 2013 12: 13 New
      +1
      yeah ... even in "high-tech" Japan there are still PHANTS to intercept our STRATEGs ...
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 13 September 2013 12: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        yeah ... even in "high-tech" Japan there are still PHANTS to intercept our STRATEGs ...

        The fact that phantoms fly to a meeting with strategists doesn’t mean anything yet. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces have their licensed copies of the F-16. Also, under an agreement with Lockheed, as soon as the F-35 is brought to mind, they will also receive a license and with their modifications will do it for themselves.
        1. tomket
          tomket 13 September 2013 13: 34 New
          +2
          Japanese is not exactly a copy, it has increased glider sizes and wing area compared to the original, in addition, the filling is different
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 13 September 2013 13: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: tomket
            Japanese is not exactly a copy, it has increased glider sizes and wing area compared to the original, in addition, the filling is different

            Well, about the same as the Chinese J-15 in relation to the SU-33 laughing
            If Japan itself did everything, and then a glider was taken, a little modified, and the engine inside is American. And to hang inside other electronics well, so the Japanese guys are not basted.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 September 2013 16: 49 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        even in "high-tech" Japan there are still phantoms to intercept our


        Well, given that the Japanese industry has developed several of its electronic systems for the fighter, including SPO J / APR-2 and command guidance equipment APR-670 for operation with air defense control systems. The aircraft received the designation F-4EJ. Mitsubishi equipped the aircraft with refueling units and equipment for attacking ground targets. Now some of them have been upgraded according to the Kai program in order to extend the resource and update equipment. in particular, they installed a modern pulse-Doppler radar AN / APG-66J, a central computer that performed basic combat and navigation calculations. For suspension under the fuselage adapted the fuel tank from the F-15 fighter for 2309 liters. Arsenal replenished anti-ship missile ASM-1. The first F-4EJ Kai took off on July 17, 1984. A total of 96 vehicles were modernized, 29 of which were converted into RF-4EJ Kai scouts. Now the Japanese Air Force plans to carry out another modernization of the Phantoms in order to keep them in service until 2020.

        But slowly the ATD-X 5th generation Japanese fighter is riveting
        1. bif
          bif 13 September 2013 17: 08 New
          +2
          no offense to the Japanese. While their 5-e generation flies in the drawings.
        2. Basileus
          Basileus 13 September 2013 18: 07 New
          0
          In light of allegations of joining the F-35 program, the fate of the ATD-X is unclear.

          UPD:
          And, no, I’m watching, the program continues - next year they want to finish building a prototype.
      3. Avenger711
        Avenger711 13 September 2013 21: 34 New
        0
        Japan’s high-tech myth, everything is very old there.
        1. clidon
          clidon 13 September 2013 22: 11 New
          +2
          Where is there? And what exactly is old?
    3. xetai9977
      xetai9977 13 September 2013 14: 13 New
      +5
      The aircraft was really adopted in 1976. But he underwent many modernizations and, in my opinion, more than a thousand were released. If you believe the press, he took part in many conflicts and not a single battle loss was recorded. Hand on heart, the plane is wonderful, although it is really starting to become obsolete.
    4. AVV
      AVV 13 September 2013 14: 52 New
      0
      All rubbish to their allies! Second-hand or F-35 at a frantic price, although they could buy from Italians or Swedes, but politics is above all !!!
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 13 September 2013 17: 04 New
        +3
        Do you know what the F-15SE is? If not, find out, if so, why do you call a second-hand? With the same success, the Su-35 can be called a second-hand.
    5. Algor73
      Algor73 13 September 2013 20: 15 New
      +1
      And why there is no choice7 But they bought (well, even on account of debt) in 1996-1997 the T-80. Of course, the United States is pushing hard, but not so much as to give up something good. Simply, the choice is small, since in the UK almost all Russian (Soviet or their own and Chinese English) weapons. The problem is different - the F-15 is already obsolete, the F-35 is prohibitively expensive, so think about where they are, beautiful or smart.
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 13 September 2013 20: 44 New
        +1
        The Republic of Kazakhstan received all our equipment on account of debts. Then there was simply no other way to get your money. There is cooperation in some areas, but there is no talk of abandoning the old strategic partners.

        I repeat, but if you call Silent Eagle morally obsolete, then all modifications of 5th generation fighters are morally obsolete, no matter what modern equipment is on them.
    6. 0255
      0255 13 September 2013 23: 23 New
      0
      As if the South Koreans have a choice ... Americans need to sell their obsolete products ...

      they need more sales of a flying iron from Lockheed Martin
    7. elgi
      elgi 13 September 2013 23: 48 New
      +2
      I totally agree. They would try to buy Russian planes :)
  2. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 13 September 2013 09: 43 New
    +3
    good news. maybe p. indos and sell the contract, but the news is good for us. not all cat shrovetide
  3. Odysseus
    Odysseus 13 September 2013 09: 46 New
    19
    South Korean generals clearly do not read the Russian forums and the press. Otherwise, they would have already been informed of the "sensational news" that the F-35 is a "cut dough" and an "iron" laughing
    For some reason, they want to buy it, not Silent Eagle.
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 13 September 2013 09: 52 New
      +1
      Nevertheless, only the old F-15 horse got to the final stage ...
      The South Korean Air Force would like to purchase the F-35, which is the only one of the applicants are fifth-generation invisible fighters.
      Well, let's be objective ... not the fifth generation, at least one parameter ...
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 13 September 2013 10: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Nevertheless, only the old F-15 horse got to the final stage ...

        Dear Oleg Kaptsov will be pleased. He is a big fan of Art Nouveau-Ilgov (Striker, Silent). By the way, Silent will have his debut))
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Well, let's be objective ... not the fifth generation, at least one parameter.

        According to one criterion, the Raptor is not fifth, it’s not multifunctional, and with the “information picture of the battle" it doesn’t have ice. So the fifth does not exist at all)))
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 13 September 2013 10: 44 New
          0
          Quote: Odyssey
          According to one criterion, the Raptor is not fifth, it’s not multifunctional, and with the “information picture of the battle" it doesn’t have ice. So the fifth does not exist at all)))

          Well, somewhere it is, and actually about it.
          There is still a parameter of "over-maneuverability" and with it "there" is also sadness (we will do without holivars about the need ... just a fact).
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 13 September 2013 10: 58 New
          +9
          Quote: Odyssey
          Dear Oleg Kaptsov will be pleased. He is a big fan of modern


          Me too, if the thing you need is why throw it away? For example, I’m just bleeding from the balalaika, he’s been in the ranks for 50 years and is relevant
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 13 September 2013 21: 36 New
          -1
          Well, Kaptsov will be right.
      2. tomket
        tomket 13 September 2013 13: 36 New
        0
        it’s better then to get a super Honet, based on the time factor of service.
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 13 September 2013 14: 56 New
      0
      Simple: the generals were paid for kipish, those who made the F-35, that's the whole plot. hi
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 13 September 2013 17: 39 New
        +1
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        Simple: the generals were paid for kipish, those who made the F-35, that's the whole plot.

        Perhaps, but illogical. The F-35 is sold in 10 countries. There is a huge order portfolio, why the hell is it cutting so much for a Korean order? And Silent has everything so far.
  4. Sirs
    Sirs 13 September 2013 09: 49 New
    +1
    Oh, the South Koreans are bargaining that North Korea will have Chinese aircraft.
  5. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 09: 54 New
    -17
    Quote: Silkway0026
    good news. maybe p. indos and sell the contract, but the news is good for us. not all cat shrovetide

    The states will slightly drop the price, and all business ... or some kind of thread will offer an additional service.
    In general, "Needles" will go like children to school.
    You have nothing to rejoice about; yours will not be bought anyway.
    1. Mr.
      Mr. Gambu4aS 13 September 2013 10: 09 New
      +5
      Yes, it doesn’t hurt, it’s necessary to sell them our swallows) And lately you don’t even know how to rejoice or get upset about deliveries of weapons abroad, then you need to arm yourself and they are exported, so let America alloy them with scrap!
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 13 September 2013 10: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: Mr. Gambu4aS
        Yes, it doesn’t hurt, it’s necessary, to sell them our swallows) And lately you don’t even know whether to rejoice or be upset about the supply of weapons abroad,
        Yeah, it’s better to sell to South Koreans than to Chinese. At least these people do not show interest in entering the Arctic, and they still have enough land. And in unlicensed copying Koreans, unlike the Chinese, are not seen.
    2. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 13 September 2013 11: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: FireFly
      You have nothing to rejoice about; yours will not be bought anyway.

      They won’t buy ours, but soon you will have nothing to offer besides fat. Enter the economic zone of the European Union, finish off the agonizing powers of Antonov, Yuzhmash and knock out Motor Sich and that's it.
      1. olegff68
        olegff68 13 September 2013 12: 12 New
        0
        Quote: velikoros-xnumx
        and besides fat soon you will have nothing to offer.

        They no longer have their own daaaavno to offer anyone else.
    3. Garrin
      Garrin 13 September 2013 13: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: FireFly
      You have nothing to rejoice about; yours will not be bought anyway.

      And this is of course a reason to rejoice at you.
      1. FireFly
        FireFly 13 September 2013 14: 17 New
        0
        We - like in the song: "But we do not care." In the field of fighters, we do not compete ... laughing
    4. rolik
      rolik 13 September 2013 16: 48 New
      0
      Quote: FireFly
      The states will slightly drop the price, and all business ... or some kind of thread will offer an additional service.

      When buying an airplane, the 5th iPhone as a gift))))))
    5. fedorovith
      fedorovith 13 September 2013 22: 14 New
      0
      Who will sell it?
      1. Tektor
        Tektor 14 September 2013 11: 41 New
        +1
        Who will sell it?
        China.
  6. Basileus
    Basileus 13 September 2013 09: 58 New
    +2
    Silent Eagle is a workhorse for a sufficiently long period. Nobody wants to recognize the Su-35 as obsolete, and the F-15SE is exactly the same modern modification of the 4th generation fighter.
    1. tomket
      tomket 13 September 2013 13: 39 New
      0
      su-35 doesn’t have more tidbits in the form of raptors behind it, about t-50 is inappropriately, let it be rolled in first, then sold
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 13 September 2013 13: 49 New
        +1
        Quote: tomket
        su-35 doesn’t have more tidbits in the form of raptors behind it, about t-50 is inappropriately, let it be rolled in first, then sold

        It is better to first saturate the Russian Air Force. And it will be as usual. Break in and exported. and your cookie.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 13 September 2013 16: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: PROXOR
          And it will be as usual. Break in and exported. and your cookie.


          Very much money is needed either the ministers steal or the generals are malnourished
        2. clidon
          clidon 13 September 2013 22: 16 New
          0
          Well, there are contracts for the Su-35.
      2. amp
        amp 13 September 2013 14: 07 New
        0
        The raptor is discontinued.
  7. andrei332809
    andrei332809 13 September 2013 09: 59 New
    0
    Amers already considered this money to be their own, and then Seoul climbed into his soul and pocket. I think that amer’s cries about the military of the northern neighbor will begin and pressure will increase under this
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 September 2013 10: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: andrei332809
      Amers already considered this money to be their own, and then Seoul climbed into his soul and pocket. I think that amer’s cries about the military of the northern neighbor will begin and pressure will increase under this

      The debate is about choosing between two American planes
  8. Sunjar
    Sunjar 13 September 2013 10: 01 New
    +1
    One stump Koreans in flight, that with F-15, that with F-35: the first is outdated, the second is prohibitively expensive, and besides, the airplane is still shitty.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 September 2013 10: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: Sunjar
      One stump Koreans in flight, that with F-15, that with F-35: the first is outdated, the second is prohibitively expensive, and besides, the airplane is still shitty.

      You, esteemed, esthete. If the newest Silent Ilg is outdated for you, and the Penguin is shit, then what is normal?
  9. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 10: 09 New
    -10
    Quote: Odyssey
    South Korean generals clearly do not read the Russian forums and the press. Otherwise, they would have already been informed of the "sensational news" that the F-35 is a "cut dough" and an "iron"

    Yes Yes. All around are fools, and only on the "Russian Forums" wherever you spit - you will fall into the great strategist laughing
    F35th - this is one of the parts of a unified battle control system, and performs its tasks.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 September 2013 10: 26 New
      +4
      Quote: FireFly
      The F35th is one of the parts of a unified combat control system, and performs its tasks

      Well, for now, we don’t know whether it is fulfilling or not fulfilling. As they say, practice will show.
      But we are too scolded F-35, it causes a smile. By the way there are people who praise him too much. We have an emotional people))
    2. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 13 September 2013 10: 29 New
      +6
      Yes, how do you know she is fulfilling her tasks or is it in the hangar while it is raining?
    3. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 13 September 2013 11: 24 New
      +9
      Quote: FireFly
      wherever you spit - you will fall into a great strategist

      And so they don’t go to the Ukrainian Forums, so as not to run into even bigger strategists and specialists! wassat
    4. Tersky
      Tersky 13 September 2013 21: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: FireFly
      yes, yes. All around are fools, and only on the "Russian Forums" wherever you spit - you will fall into the great strategist

      One trolling strategist under the name FireFly is especially noticeable ..
  10. svskor80
    svskor80 13 September 2013 10: 19 New
    +2
    If they take planes with an eye on hostilities in the short term, then the F-15 is what you need - the car is run-in, its strengths and weaknesses are well known. But for the next 30 years this is no longer an option; such a deal looks more like a corruption scheme.
  11. vadson
    vadson 13 September 2013 10: 22 New
    +3
    firefly you will not prompt where it fulfilled f35 tasks and what if not a secret?
    1. FireFly
      FireFly 13 September 2013 10: 29 New
      0
      Shurygin listen:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DdXTJB9sk
      1. Nukem999
        Nukem999 13 September 2013 11: 30 New
        +4
        .................
      2. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 13 September 2013 16: 48 New
        +1
        Either different countries refuse the F-35, and of course they didn’t listen to Shurygin.
    2. Kipish
      Kipish 13 September 2013 12: 49 New
      +1
      How where, in "Golewood"))
  12. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 10: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: Odyssey
    Well, so far we do not know whether it is fulfilling or not fulfilling. As the saying goes, practice will show.
    But we are too scolded F-35, it causes a smile. By the way there are people who praise him too much. We have an emotional people))

    In military affairs, emotions are harmful, they lead to huge and unjustified losses. soldier
  13. mirag2
    mirag2 13 September 2013 10: 32 New
    +2
    Talk about F-15, not 35. That's just the F-35 they will buy. But obviously they will not buy ours.
    They will buy a modern NATO aircraft. But there is no modern F-35 yet.
  14. allekkss
    allekkss 13 September 2013 10: 33 New
    +6
    Some strange arguments about Korean generals. F-15E - a heavy strike fighter, F-35 - a kind of light wagon fighter. Moreover, under the contract it turns out that one Strike Eagle will cost $ 125 million, the F-35 will cost twice as much. Will the F-15 be able to fulfill the strike functions for the next 30 years - it certainly can, the Su-24 is still at the armament of Russia, when Russia still saturates the troops with 5th generation strike planes, I think 30 years later, when China does it, also years in 30. When will North Korea do it - in 60 years? If no one in the region will be in possession of 30th generation strike aircraft in the next 5 years, then why should South Korea have a raw F-35? I believe that against modern, and even more so those air defense systems that will appear in 10 years, the survival rate of the F-15 and the F-35 will be approximately the same, especially considering the size of the possible theater of operations. Most likely the Americans themselves want to sell their F-35s to the Korean market.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 September 2013 10: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: allekkss
      F-15E - heavy attack fighter, F-35 - a kind of light fighter station wagon

      In general, we are talking about Silent Ilge, not Strike. Strike in their terms, generally the Stone Age)) They are finicky.
      1. allekkss
        allekkss 13 September 2013 11: 13 New
        +1
        I apologize for the inaccuracy, but for me the same eggs are only in profile, they took some measures to reduce the visibility of the aircraft, it is clear that he did not become “invisible” after that, maybe there is no electronics, I don’t think that the Americans are trying to match the Koreans with then a very trimmed Eagle. And the Koreans have already had so much deal with Needles that they have long been able to develop their own electronics and equipment for them.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 13 September 2013 15: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: allekkss
          I apologize for the inaccuracy, but for me the same eggs are only in profile

          Well, in general, yes. As for the idea of ​​their choice, I think the fact is that
          1) They do not have important relations with the PRC, the traditional dislike of Japan (although both of these are American satellites), plus an unfinished war with the SK. And the PRC and Japan are serious countries.
          2) Consideration of prestige - like this, Japan will have the F-35, but we don’t. They have money.
          Quote: allekkss
          Moreover, under the contract it turns out that one Strike Eagle will cost $ 125 million, the F-35 will cost twice as much.

          Not two. More expensive by 20 million.
          Quote: allekkss
          the armament of Russia is still the Su-24

          According to Soviet plans, the Su-24 was supposed to start changing in the 90s. Now everyone would have written off a long time ago. The fact that we still have the main drummer is the fault of perestroika and all subsequent events.
          Quote: allekkss
          when China does, 30 years from now.

          I think faster.
          Quote: allekkss
          Most likely the Americans themselves want to sell their F-35s to the Korean market.

          And what difference does it make which of their planes will buy? More likely then they should lobby Silent-for it while there are no orders.
          1. allekkss
            allekkss 13 September 2013 17: 50 New
            +4
            In order:
            1) South Korea will not fight Japan, just as their elder brother has one. In the event of a serious conflict with China, neither the F-15SE nor the F-35 will help them, nor the United States, this time the Chinese will reach the sea quickly enough.
            2) The prestige is for politicians, the military, if of course they are normal military, should be guided by slightly different considerations when choosing equipment, tea is not a new iPhone (that's why I'm talking about the “strange” argumentation of generals, pilots can understand you want something newer). :-)
            3) Prices for F-35 announced by the United States revolve around 108 million dollars, but only in 2019 after the start of large-scale production. And whether it will be large-scale, and if so, whether it will be 2019, and whether the price will remain at the pre-existing level, in general, no one will guarantee anything, but it will definitely not be cheaper. Moreover, Koreans themselves say that for the days of the F-35 tender they were offered significantly less.
            4) It is clear that according to Soviet plans, the Su-24 should have been changed to 90 and it’s understandable why they didn’t change, but South Korea is not richer than Russia, and the potential for modernization of the Needle is still not fully selected, in the end there is a place for a two-month attack plane to deploy in plan for the use of electronics. And it’s not clear how single F-35s will perform shock functions as effectively as double F-15s. The Amirak people here are also simple, firstly, the interests of different corporations do not always intersect, secondly, Needles have already paid for themselves, old planes can be cheaply thrown off to anyone without modernization, and orders for the F-35 need to be purchased, the more, all the better, the plane wasn’t accepted yet, and money is already being paid for it, which is bad, again, the latest manufacturing technologies will force the Allied Union to buy spare parts from the United States, rather than try to repair it with their own forces (try to make some extra composite yourself without knowing from what it consists of and how it works).
            In general, there are reasons. But judging by the fact that interests are lobbied by generals, and not politicians and ministers, this is still more an order from Lockheed Martin than directly from the ruling circles of the United States.
    2. FireFly
      FireFly 13 September 2013 10: 44 New
      +2
      And if we take into account that the F15 will also be able to carry a new generation of missiles, hypersonic ... Plus various coatings that reduce radio visibility.
  15. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 10: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: mirag2
    Talk about F-15, not 35. That's just the F-35 they will buy. But obviously they will not buy ours.
    They will buy a modern NATO aircraft. But there is no modern F-35 yet.

    They may buy something, but who will sell them something? laughing
  16. Yves762
    Yves762 13 September 2013 10: 44 New
    +5
    Interestingly, the F-15 Silent Eagle (SE) is positioned as a multi-role fighter of the 4 ++ generation, just like our Su-35С ... So, we should not produce them for the army.?. what Some garbage! no I feel that pensioners have a different interest here ... am
    1. Nukem999
      Nukem999 13 September 2013 11: 33 New
      +4
      .................
  17. Genur
    Genur 13 September 2013 10: 56 New
    0
    On you, God, that we are worthless
  18. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 13 September 2013 10: 58 New
    +6
    The generals would understandly want the death star, or better yet two, just in case. In general, retired military men with connections in the west often work as lobbyists for various arms suppliers. It is not difficult to imagine how Lockheed Martin makes small contributions to the accounts of the generals, and now the Douglas MacDonel planes are declared obsolete slag. We are waiting for the return move of the representatives of Douglas.
    I suspect a similar system will appear soon with us, easy money.
  19. USNik
    USNik 13 September 2013 11: 05 New
    +4
    F-35 is convulsing. And the F-15SE is really better than a single-engine iron. Although he has problems:
    the installation of conformal fuel tanks, which can be converted into internal weapon compartments, is aimed at reducing the level of reflected signals in side projections. ... the use of conformal fuel tanks for ammunition will reduce the aircraft's range by 200 nautical miles. ...
    But according to the nomenclature of armaments, the "old man" covers 35 like a bull to a sheep:
    The design of the internal compartments allows you to place two ammunition in pairs, providing the possibility of combining air-ground and air-air weapon systems, including 2 AIM-120 AMRAAM and two 1000-pound UAVs Mk.83 JDAM or 4-pound Mk .500 JDAMS or 82 PSA SDB. The internal bomb racks are designed to suspend ammunition weighing no more than 8 pounds.
    .
  20. PROXOR
    PROXOR 13 September 2013 11: 30 New
    -3
    Quote: FireFly
    The states will slightly lower the price, and they will offer all business ... or some additional service. In general, Needles will go to school as children. You have nothing to rejoice at all, they won’t buy yours anyway.

    I think you respected in this forum have nothing to do. I advise you to learn homovrey languages ​​and go to the homovrop forum.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 13 September 2013 11: 55 New
      +2
      And can you specifically answer something about the comment? There, sobsno, everything is written soundly - the United States will find a way to cram anything - they have a wide offer, for every taste. Well, RK will not buy our fighters - this is also understandable.
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 13 September 2013 12: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: Basileus
        And can you specifically answer something about the comment? There, sobsno, everything is written soundly - the United States will find a way to cram anything - they have a wide offer, for every taste. Well, RK will not buy our fighters - this is also understandable.

        To write comments from a country that cannot sell its planes even to its neighbors, this is a bad move! I’m keeping silent that soon Ukraine itself will have a fighter corn fleet because they don’t have enough money for other cars. And in 10-15 years, we will see the second Baltic military parade of inflatable boats.
        Also, the author spoke very unpleasantly about the Russian Federation in other topics.
        Based on the foregoing, I believe that he does not belong here. And the fact that they don’t buy it is far from a fact. Mattresses are losing their positions around the world. And many countries are beginning to think not for their geopolitical interests, but for their benefit. Recall at least the statements of the German Air Force officers when they sent to rest the last squadron of their MIG-29s that they had inherited from the GDR.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 13 September 2013 13: 30 New
          +2
          Hooray-patriotism - this may be good, but not always useful. For example, what kind of fighter does Ukraine do? That's right - no, so what can she sell to her neighbors? And Antonov is in many ways Russian too.

          Same thing in the USA. Hand over - hand over, but Koreans at the moment will still buy from America. And in this particular tender we won’t win.

          So I repeat - there is nothing to tell you specifically on the quote, but I want to run into a person. I think it's better to run into the case, in this case he is right.
          1. FireFly
            FireFly 13 September 2013 14: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: Basileus
            So I repeat - there is nothing to tell you specifically on the quote, but I want to run into a person. I think it's better to run into the case, in this case he is right.

            drinks
  21. left-wing
    left-wing 13 September 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    Russia would offer its Dryers, for starters, train a couple of pilots to fly them, spend a couple of demonstrations in Korea, you look and the Koreans would get off American planes ... Dreams.
  22. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 13 September 2013 11: 53 New
    +2
    Yes, it makes no difference what the Seoul generals like and what not. These are their sexual difficulties, and let them solve them the way they want. Well, or how it goes ...
    I am much more interested in the problems and aspirations of our Air Force. For me it is more important ...
  23. indiggo
    indiggo 13 September 2013 11: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: links
    Russia would offer its Dryers, for starters, train a couple of pilots to fly them, spend a couple of demonstrations in Korea, you look and the Koreans would get off American planes ... Dreams.


    geopolitics nothing personal smile
  24. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 13 September 2013 11: 59 New
    +1
    Do what they criticize correctly.

    Libya 2011
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 13 September 2013 13: 46 New
      +2
      in my opinion this is Serbia, and secondly if there is a meeting of the su-27 and f-16 f-16 will also be in this role ...
  25. The comment was deleted.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 13 September 2013 12: 56 New
      0
      Quote: FireFly
      You know, I myself will figure out where I am and what to do, and without the advice of any "respected" ones.

      Then, being on the Russian site about the military industry, please be kind to open your mouth only in essence, and not say what is shining in Russia and what is not. And then I won’t tell you where to go and what the "fraternal" Ukraine shines on.
      1. FireFly
        FireFly 13 September 2013 13: 06 New
        0
        And again, I myself will figure out where to do what. Moreover, my comment was an order of magnitude more adequate than your current hi
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 13 September 2013 13: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: FireFly
          And again, I myself will figure out where to do what. Moreover, my comment was an order of magnitude more adequate than your current

          In my opinion: your comments are inadequate and cause only a tight smile, as well as those comments about the correct course of the Independent. I do not see any further discussion as appropriate in the absence of words for discussing the article. Once again, I recommend revising the tone of the statement regarding the Russian Federation in your comments. The topic is closed.
          1. FireFly
            FireFly 13 September 2013 13: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: PROXOR
            Your comments are inadequate and cause only a tight smile


            With the majors, mind you, first say "Just kidding," then joke.
            (C) K.Prutkov

            Quote: PROXOR
            The topic is closed.

            With pleasure
  26. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 12: 46 New
    -4
    Quote: links
    Russia would offer its Dryers, for starters, trained a couple of pilots to fly them, held a couple of demonstrations in Korea

    If we take into account that some 50 years ago, South Korea with the help of the USA repelled the aggression of North Korea supported by the USSR, then Russia could not even rock the boat for the South Korean tender laughing
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 13 September 2013 13: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: FireFly
      If we take into account that some 50 years ago, South Korea with the help of the USA repelled the aggression of North Korea supported by the USSR, then Russia could not even rock the boat for the South Korean tender

      This means nothing. Times change. The Republic of Viet Nam repelled the threat of the capture of the country by Mattresses with the help of the USSR. but at the moment, when buying new weapons, the Vietnamese Defense Ministry is looking not only at the Russian arms market. Here, the question is rather the benefit and political will of the country's leadership.
      1. FireFly
        FireFly 13 September 2013 13: 05 New
        -2
        Vietnam is one thing, and Sevkorey is on the other side.
        Moreover, Russia has been seen in helping the Kimans, who are threatening to demolish South Korea from the face of the earth.
        Russia had no chance to promote its equipment.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 13 September 2013 13: 32 New
          +2
          The USA is also seen in helping Kimam. They feed them. What doesn’t prevent the Kims from arising, and the Republic of Kazakhstan is packaged in the USA.
          1. FireFly
            FireFly 13 September 2013 14: 15 New
            +3
            There is a complicated love ...
            When Kim’s grub runs out, they take out a machine gun and start pounding them along the bars of their cage.
            Then good uncles come from South Korea and the USA, throw a couple of bags of rice, and Kim calm down until the next meal laughing
        2. Horst78
          Horst78 13 September 2013 14: 39 New
          +2
          Good afternoon.
          Moreover, Russia has been seen in helping the Kimans, who are threatening to demolish South Korea from the face of the earth.
          My friend works in Korea. When I told him about that rascal who in nete goes to the account of the DPRK and the Republic of Kazakhstan, he laughed and said that here (in the Republic of Kazakhstan) all do not care. Because he is my friend, I consider the topic of confrontation between the DPRK and the Republic of Kazakhstan unreasonable for such attention.
          PS but RK bought our T-80Y http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D2-80, BMP-3 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%CC%CF-3 and BTR-80 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%D2%D0-80 without problems.
          1. alone
            alone 13 September 2013 19: 10 New
            +1
            they received them by paying off debts. but did not buy
            1. Horst78
              Horst78 14 September 2013 09: 28 New
              0
              So then it is, but they put it into service, and not to analyze the creation technologies. hi
              1. clidon
                clidon 14 September 2013 09: 55 New
                +1
                For the analysis of technology would buy three pieces.
  27. Russkiy_Prapor
    Russkiy_Prapor 13 September 2013 12: 47 New
    +4
    It doesn’t matter which fighters the enemy will have, the main thing is that we (the fighters) would be better and have more of them.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. lucidlook
    lucidlook 13 September 2013 13: 16 New
    +5
    Strange logic in Korean generals. And in relation to the F-35, do not they think that "the model is not yet fully ready"? wink

    Of course, you can compare the F-15s of the 70s and the F-15SE, but I'm afraid the comparison will not be in favor of the first.

    Here is just a short list:
    1. Stealth (that's why he and Silent):
    "According to the developers, as a result of the modernization, the level of stealth of the fighter in the frontal projection corresponds to any fifth-generation aircraft in configuration, approved by the US government for sale abroad. The improvements, according to Boeing, will not alter the aerodynamic characteristics of the F-15SE. "Regarding the aerodynamics of the Needle, watch the sensational landing video on one wing.

    2. Conformal fuel tanks can be used as weapons compartments (if you don’t have to fly too far). The design of the internal compartments allows you to place two munitions in pairs, providing the possibility of combining air-ground and air-air weapon systems. The internal bomb racks are designed to suspend ammunition weighing no more than 1000 pounds (~ 500 kg). Those. you can cram 4 lb. Mk. 500 JDAMS. And this is not counting all that can still be hung under the wings if desired.

    3. New electronic warfare system - DEWS

    4. The new radar with AFAR - AN / APG-63 (V) 3. And an even newer AN / APG-63 (V) 4 is on the way.

    5. JHMCS Integrated Helmet Targeting System

    6. The price of $ 100 million - at least twice lower than the F-35

    The list goes on, but I think it’s so clear that the car deserves attention. And the fact that it was developed in the 70s ... well, so what? Development was in response to the appearance of the MiG-25 in the USSR, so its frame is still used in the MiG-31 with minimal changes, and the filling inside is almost all new. So what? Who is this confusing?
    1. FireFly
      FireFly 13 September 2013 13: 26 New
      +3
      And you don’t have to fly far: the entire peninsula is just some 1000 km.
    2. dima-fesko
      dima-fesko 13 September 2013 14: 36 New
      +1
      Regarding the aerodynamics of the Needle - watch the sensational video landing on one wing. Did you mean this --http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = dMlbLSzD9x0 & feature = player_detailpage, or did I miss something?
      1. lucidlook
        lucidlook 13 September 2013 14: 57 New
        +4
        Here is the video "Pilot lands F-15 with only one wing"
    3. clidon
      clidon 14 September 2013 10: 30 New
      0
      . Price $ 100 million - at least half the price of the F-35

      The price is a quarter to a third lower approximately.
  30. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 13 September 2013 13: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: FireFly
    You know, I myself will figure out where I am and what to do, and without the advice of any "respected" ones.

    You pchitaesh - all does not suit you. And in general, "firefly" you already lit up on the site for some reason under different flags laughing
  31. Nikolay_1995
    Nikolay_1995 13 September 2013 13: 26 New
    0
    It is not surprising that they were criticized ... they are already 20-30 years old
  32. FireFly
    FireFly 13 September 2013 13: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey Peter
    You pchitaesh - all does not suit you. And in general, "firefly" you already lit up on the site for some reason under different flags laughing

    Cool, I did not pay attention smile
  33. LM66
    LM66 13 September 2013 14: 03 New
    +3
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    yeah ... even in "high-tech" Japan, there are still PHANTS to intercept our STRATEGs.


    For 50 year old strategists, phantoms are just the same age, they remember youth smile
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. Phase
    Phase 13 September 2013 14: 48 New
    +4
    Quote: FireFly
    Vietnam is one thing, and Sevkorey is on the other side.
    Moreover, Russia has been seen in helping the Kimans, who are threatening to demolish South Korea from the face of the earth.
    Russia had no chance to promote its equipment.

    My friend, South Korea has been purchasing Russian weapons (BMP-3) for a long time, and is also developing jointly with Russia air defense systems (Cheolmae-2 based on the neutered version of Vityaz). So who is there when he supported what kind of aggression - everyone has long been a bolt).
    1. clidon
      clidon 13 September 2013 17: 21 New
      +3
      BMP-3 and T-80 they put on account of debt once in the 90s. But rocket technology is actually slowly buying.
      1. FireFly
        FireFly 13 September 2013 17: 50 New
        -1
        It turns out that not everything Khrushchev was bad ...
  36. Vityaz68
    Vityaz68 13 September 2013 15: 26 New
    -10
    ONLY WE ARE RUSSIAN WEAPONS TO MAKE!
  37. Sarmat1972
    Sarmat1972 13 September 2013 16: 05 New
    +3
    No, everything is much simpler. Koreans need to bring down the price or get extra. services. They are well aware that the F-15 are good aircraft and they are quite happy with them. The Americans know that the RK has grandmas and they (theoretically) can consider the acquisition of the F-35, and they need to quickly sell these F-15s. To the leaders of the Republic of Kazakhstan how to argue a discount or additional. bonuses - turned to "their well-deserved pros", so that they would raise a butch. "Look who benefits"!
    1. clidon
      clidon 13 September 2013 17: 30 New
      +1
      There are not some kind of "Americans", but different companies, each of which has its own pricing policy. Initially, there were 3 applicants - F-35, F-15 and Typhoon. F-35 did not fit on the budget and it was criticized and forgotten. Then they criticized “Typhoon”, only “Eagle” remained. But their Koreans do not want from the very beginning and, yes, I agree, they demand a discount from Lockheed.
      1. FireFly
        FireFly 13 September 2013 18: 12 New
        +1
        Well, they will come to a consensus laughing
  38. Des10
    Des10 13 September 2013 19: 14 New
    0
    With all due respect to the modernized F-15 - 30 years MORE it will be hard in the ranks, the young will get around.
    I think the letter of the generals is a patriotic step, but not without the influence of business plans.
    1. FireFly
      FireFly 13 September 2013 21: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Des10
      With all due respect to the modernized F-15 - 30 YEARS STILL in the ranks will be hard, the young will get around.

      Young, apparently, will already be unmanned smile
  39. Vtel
    Vtel 13 September 2013 19: 18 New
    +2
    How funny are these South Korean generals - if they have a choice, then the Americans will give from a spoon, then they will take it for the night.

    "Two Jews eat fish. One puts himself a larger piece, and a smaller friend. He says:
    - Aren `t you ashamed! If I were you, I would put you a bigger piece, and myself a smaller one!
    - Try, understand you after that! Here he is, your smaller piece! "
    1. clidon
      clidon 13 September 2013 20: 31 New
      0
      They have at least a choice between the F-15SE now and the F-35 afterwards.
  40. vadim dok
    vadim dok 13 September 2013 19: 41 New
    +1
    It may be "obsolete", but who has better? (Except, perhaps, in Russia).
  41. hilt
    hilt 13 September 2013 20: 57 New
    +1
    When the McDonnell-Douglas company won the competition, a spontaneous booze started at Sukhoi's company in one of the departments (they already had information about a komandovo style in the instant-25 style, obviously losing) in the midst of which one of the participants shouted: we went to a restaurant and all at once picked up and then the call, Oleg Samoilovich picks up the pipe and hears the hoarse voice of the deputy according to the regime: Oleg, which restaurant, drink here, everything you need to bring
    1. clidon
      clidon 13 September 2013 21: 08 New
      0
      Well, what were you happy about in this bike, especially the “dry ones”? It turned out, probably the best fighter of the fourth generation of the Western world. We had to stomp to such a result for about 10 years, when the more or less brought Su-27 went into the troops. Moreover, made on the second attempt.
      1. hilt
        hilt 13 September 2013 21: 20 New
        +2
        yes with the second, it’s true, but sometimes it’s better to skip ahead, the tag turned out worse, we rejoiced in victory, we rejoiced that we fucked up, we rejoiced that there are no cooler designers in this world. Our military is still not able to fully master the modifications of this aircraft, this is the problem, the situation has not changed since when I handed over the Su-27 on the ground (I was 25 years old), as I now see the face of the USSR hero, who the child can’t understand where he is aiming, I instructed, this is a problem, especially today
        1. clidon
          clidon 13 September 2013 21: 29 New
          0
          I'm talking about the P-42 ... Rejoicing that the enemy is making a good plane is at least strange. And skipping forward has another name - lag. And then again it is necessary to catch up, while the enemy moves further.
          1. hilt
            hilt 13 September 2013 21: 42 New
            +1
            the enemy makes a bad plane, in this case it’s not behind, it’s a tsuzwang, but I'm bored with you, I'm sorry
            1. clidon
              clidon 13 September 2013 22: 13 New
              +1
              Well, the F-15 turned out to be an excellent 4th-generation aircraft, so that they would not drink there for joy at the Sukhoi Design Bureau. ) Moreover, he fought well, was exploited and still will be.
              1. hilt
                hilt 13 September 2013 22: 34 New
                0
                ours is much better, and everyone knows it, empty words, olichny from others, but with what? tell me
                1. clidon
                  clidon 13 September 2013 22: 58 New
                  0
                  A lot better lack of AFAR? Lack of stealth technology? Etc,
                  1. hilt
                    hilt 13 September 2013 23: 15 New
                    +1
                    fpyatnashki ve it is, you are right
  42. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 13 September 2013 21: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: Odyssey
    Dear Oleg Kaptsov will be pleased. He is a big fan of modern


    Me too, if the thing you need is why throw it away? For example, I’m just bleeding from the balalaika, he’s been in the ranks for 50 years and is relevant

    We have every model of military equipment such - Kalash.
    Take at least the T-55, or Mi-8, Mi-24, Su-24 ... A rare high-speed counter is unsuccessful ...
  43. Starksa
    Starksa 13 September 2013 21: 34 New
    +1
    Why don't SK consider buying fighters in Russia, but apparently the owner in the person of us is above all
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 13 September 2013 21: 46 New
      +1
      South Korea is an occupied state. there are bases of the SGA. when our bases were in the GDR, their leadership had to coordinate with us more or less serious decisions and actions. and of course the GDR followed our policy.

      So is South Korea with the SGA
      1. clidon
        clidon 13 September 2013 22: 15 New
        0
        South Korea does not want this "occupation" to end. Every time they ask that the Americans toss something larger and newer when they try to reduce staff and bases. Just for this there is an incentive in the North.
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 13 September 2013 22: 25 New
          0
          just when the country's leadership is fully controlled, it will only say what the controller needs.
          1. clidon
            clidon 13 September 2013 22: 59 New
            0
            South Korea is not a puppet. This is a completely independent state, if you do not bump into conspiracy theories and conspiracies.
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 13 September 2013 23: 02 New
              0
              So independent that on its territory the Amer’s troops?
              1. clidon
                clidon 13 September 2013 23: 20 New
                0
                Which they themselves persuade to stay. For then themselves butting with the northerners no joy.
            2. Ivan_Ivanov
              Ivan_Ivanov 13 September 2013 23: 07 New
              0
              yeah, in conspiracy theology you can blame anything you like that you don't like.

              GDR was also a completely independent state?
              1. clidon
                clidon 13 September 2013 23: 21 New
                0
                Is it NATO drove troops into the block? Or did states leave it on their own?
  44. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 14 September 2013 06: 12 New
    0
    There is a proverb about the crane in the sky and tits in the hand. Do not like the F-15s that are, dream of an F-35 that isn't there, or better yet, make your own. tongue
  45. Koronik
    Koronik 14 September 2013 06: 39 New
    +1
    Probably expensive pleasure, the creation of a military aircraft.
  46. KononAV
    KononAV 15 September 2013 09: 01 New
    +1
    They are wrong. Norm with normal airplane.
  47. Alex666
    Alex666 26 September 2013 16: 59 New
    +1
    Just a great airplane with a great and glorious history! And who writes here that the plane is old and praises the SU 30, I don’t understand at all. SU30 was created on the basis of SU27, planets have not changed for 30 years !!! What new aircraft are you talking about? So little of this, electronics lags an order of magnitude behind foreign counterparts.