Military Review

Ukraine suffered more from “independence” than from the fascist invasion

130

The fact that the holiday is for the Ukrainian “elite” is woeful for the people


One of those points that, of course, bring together the citizens of fraternal Russia and Ukraine, is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of the "Independence Day" celebrated on both sides of the border (we have, however, under a different name). Grammar and logic suggest that this name should be continued. Independence from what?

And immediately there is an awkwardness, because if we take the “Galician” version of interpretation as a basis, which implies that independence from Russia is being celebrated, it will be a lie and just nonsense. Independence is especially evident and indisputable, of course, against the background of trade and gas wars. But there are also much higher matters, the presence of which exposes all the talk about separatism, again with slyness. First of all it история, which, of course, can be rewritten, but still to some limits, so that it does not become absolutely fiction. It so happened that Moscow Russia did not originate at all independently of Kievan Rus: historically it is a single whole.

Particularly piquant is the celebration of the “independence day” of Ukraine in recent years, when Kiev really, so to speak, demonstrates “independence”, or rather, “equidistance” from Russia and Europe. That is what it demonstrates - and, to admit, not very convincingly. Signed a memorandum with the Customs Union, but are preparing to sign an Association Agreement with the European Union. Yes, only the connection between independence and “multi-vector” is not: they are things of a different order. The inevitable, apparently, a rapprochement with Brussels, obviously, will show official Kiev and Yanukovich personally what the price of their independence is. But it will be too late.

Well, happy holidays to you, brothers.

In a conversation with the KM.RU columnist, the well-known Ukrainian political scientist, chairman of the public organization “Russian Community of Ukraine” Konstantin Shurov spoke about his attitude to the holiday “Independence Day of Ukraine”:

- By the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, not at all voluntary, but programmed (as one of the American leaders recently said: “Thank God, there were traitors on that side”, meaning, obviously, Gorbachev), Ukraine was in 10-m in the world in terms of per capita GDP, and by now it has slipped by this indicator to 59-place. So judge for yourself what it is independent from. Industry was destroyed, and the population’s losses were comparable to those that occurred during World War II, but then there was fighting. Today there is no fighting, and the population is declining. Almost all scientific schools have been destroyed, the number of universities that train specialists for industry has decreased. In industry itself, entire industries have been destroyed, the infrastructure is in a deplorable state.

Thus, over the past 22 of the year, Ukraine gained independence from its right to be among the ten leading industrial countries of the world, to be among the most educated countries of the world, deprived of scientific schools in Kharkov, Kiev, Odessa ... More than a pitiful result. But the worst thing is that the people themselves almost lost faith in the fact that something positive will happen in the near future.

Yes, the Soviet Union collapsed under the slogans of the fight against privileges, partocracy - so what now? Those who have money can go to the West, get an education there and get treatment, and those who have no money cannot. At the same time, free medical care has practically disappeared in Ukraine itself: people cannot afford elementary operations. The operation to remove the gallbladder in the most ordinary hospital costs 1500 dollars. Here is the result of independence.

I do not know what President Yanukovych will say in his congratulatory speech. One of his main proposals at this stage is the path to the West. This is almost the only thing that today in Ukraine heats the soul of the local quasi-elite. She also argues that the Western vector of Ukraine’s policy is an indicator of its independence from Russia. It’s not just the day of some abstract independence that is being celebrated, but quite frankly - independence from Moscow. They are very frankly saying that it is better to have a Dutch, German or French Gestapo in the country than the Russian FSB. Like, if we are so bad for Russia that it cannot reduce the price of gas, we will go to the West. But how will this end? .. However, I believe that after Russia confidently stands on both legs, when the economy is fully operational, of course, work in the south-west direction will be continued by Moscow.

In the meantime, it cannot but surprise that over the past 22 of the year in Russia almost no one has seriously engaged in strengthening the Russian position in Ukraine. If anyone tried, either on his own initiative, or seeking to get grants, but one cannot speak about serious work during all this time. But working with compatriots is the very “soft power” that Russia cannot use in any way in its relations with its closest neighbors. The Russian political elite does not seem to be able to afford to rely on compatriots living in Ukraine. But why? This question must be addressed, including to the highest cabinets. For example, why has Vladimir Putin never met with compatriots in Ukraine for so many years as president? Never, for all three terms!

The point is not to shake hands, but to give confidence to their former fellow citizens that Russia still needs them. What is more important for the Kremlin in the end - the interests of its elites or the interests of those who, by the will of fate after the collapse of the USSR, turned out to be in another country? Suppose that they formally have passports of another state, but they keep a good attitude towards Russia, towards its leadership, and the policy being pursued. They are an important factor in the influence of Russia on the policy of Ukraine, and you can’t buy this for any price. One American politician of the XIX century once said: "What is in his pockets (he meant money) needs to be invested in heads, in thoughts."

At least for today, we don’t know where the money goes from the Russian budget to work with compatriots. And this, in turn, has already turned many people away from real work in this extremely important area. I would like this issue to be resolved as soon as possible. But how long to wait - until the last compatriots in the post-Soviet space die? ..
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130 comments
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  1. Captain Vrungel
    Captain Vrungel 27 August 2013 08: 30 New
    26
    The people of Ukraine are suffering. Who creates "independent Ukraine"? These ones?
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 27 August 2013 08: 50 New
      10
      Jews, as always, are busy with "business" :(
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 27 August 2013 09: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      The people of Ukraine are suffering. Who creates "independent Ukraine"?

      ... nevertheless, such a long-awaited "SWEET WORD - FREEDOM! ...
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 27 August 2013 11: 22 New
        22
        Independence Day of Ukraine celebrated by more than a million people
        Festive events were held in 685 settlements
        The celebration of the 22nd anniversary of Independence of Ukraine was attended by more than 1 million Ukrainians and guests of the country, the press service of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.
        The celebrations were held in 685 settlements of the country. The organizers of the holiday held more than 1,2 thousand public events.
        Almost 14 thousand employees of law enforcement bodies provided public order and the safety of Ukrainian and foreign guests during mass cultural events.
        On this day, law enforcement officers did not find gross violations of public order.
        Recall that Ukraine celebrated Independence Day yesterday.
        http://www.segodnya.ua/ukraine/Den-Nezavisimosti-Ukrainy-otmetili-bolee-milliona
        -chelovek-456322.html
        xxxxx
        Now a question! If from the entire population of Ukraine (we will discard 15 million - children) the main holiday of the country was celebrated by only 1 million + foreign guests, it turns out that for the rest (46 million - 15 = 31) 31 million THIS IS NOT A HOLIDAY !!! So who needed this "independence"? Who fought for it?
        1. vilenich
          vilenich 27 August 2013 14: 41 New
          12
          Quote: Egoza
          So who needed this "independence"? Who fought for it?

          And then you already forgot for independence from WHOM Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich fought.
          They wanted to become "appanage princelings" and they did, but the peoples now have to take the rap!
        2. FATEMOGAN
          FATEMOGAN 27 August 2013 17: 10 New
          11
          Quote: Egoza
          So who needed this "independence"? Who fought for it?


          Only the masks change, but the faces remain the same ......
        3. vostok1982
          vostok1982 27 August 2013 20: 35 New
          +7
          This is not a holiday for me. For my family too. For everyone I know is also not a holiday.
          1. phantom359
            phantom359 27 August 2013 23: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: vostok1982
            This is not a holiday for me. For my family too. For everyone I know is also not a holiday.

            For me and my friends and acquaintances, too. This is not a holiday, but a farce and once again an occasion to get drunk on some humanoids.
        4. Barrel
          Barrel 27 August 2013 23: 51 New
          -1
          I went with friends to about. Khortytsa also celebrated this day. There were a lot of people on Khortitsa. Now think about whether someone began to run home, through the woods and peek who celebrates and who does not (this is only possible in the USSR =)). The News indicates the number of people who came to mass events. I didn’t go there, because I’m not interested in listening to pop music such as Potap and Kamensky.
          But on account of the fact that the majority here write "I am not idle" - it is because you simply repulse ordinary Ukrainians with your chauvinism. Most of those are Ukrainian. flag - these are either soviet men, or come in large numbers of Russians. I myself tried to forget this site 3 times, but this is the only site that contains interesting information about geopolitical events in the world.
          1. FATEMOGAN
            FATEMOGAN 28 August 2013 00: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Barrel
            I went with friends to about. Khortytsa also celebrated this day. There were a lot of people on Khortitsa.

            Quote: Barrel
            But on account of the fact that the majority here write "I am not idle" - it is because you simply repulse ordinary Ukrainians with your chauvinism. Most of those are Ukrainian. flag - these are either soviet men, or come in large numbers of Russians


            Celebrate, who is bothering you, dance to your health, only it is great for you, but for others it is a tragedy, or can only "True Ukrainians" express their opinion?
          2. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 04: 25 New
            +1
            Can I repeat it? Really, independence from whom? Or just an excuse? The majority do not care how they call him, if only a day off. At least 300 years of faceted glass ... We also have strange holidays. Reconciliation day. Who with whom? Gomikov with paratroopers? Or constitution day. Or Day of Unity of Peoples ... Still, it is better to faceted glass, clear and understandable.
      2. smile
        smile 27 August 2013 17: 21 New
        +4
        KazaK Bo
        Interesting. why long-awaited? Were the Ukrainians in slavery? Only a pitiful part of Bandera, who understood freedom, was waiting for "Svoboda" - the sale of Ukraine to anyone who fell, just to annoy the Russians .... although, of course. after a quarter of a century of open massive propaganda. and even earlier, the active work of our probable friends, the livestock of degradants-Bandera has grown significantly ...
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 27 August 2013 18: 23 New
          10
          Condolences to the Ukrainians, but in Russia everything is the same! One to one with Ukraine! Both here and there, merchant capitalists came to power, and in Ukraine and in the Russian Federation, oligarchs are fattening at the expense of the People. But the Russians and the Ukrainians have nothing to share! Hostility is fanned by those to whom the union of Russians and Ukrainians is across the throat, for it is more difficult for the united peoples to plunder, they can give a turnaround!
    3. chehywed
      chehywed 27 August 2013 18: 23 New
      +6
      And yet, judging by the schedule, there are "already" 92000 Jews in Ukraine? Oh, do not fool the head of mine! laughing
  2. domokl
    domokl 27 August 2013 08: 36 New
    23
    Another cry of Yaroslavna. Guys, this is no longer ridiculous. Ukraine is an independent state and you are its citizens. To reproach Russia for having little influence on the affairs of others is not very good. What are citizens of another state formally? It doesn’t happen. Are you either a citizen or kindly wander where you feel better.
    I understand that it is hard, very difficult for Ukrainians of Russian origin. But there is no line for Russian citizenship at the Russian embassy. And, therefore, everything else is just words.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 27 August 2013 08: 41 New
      10
      Quote: domokl
      . To reproach Russia with the fact that it does little to interfere in the affairs of others, as it is not so.

      Hello Sasha! Yes, you at least turn things around, Russia is all to blame laughing We do not meddle in the affairs of Ukraine -badly. We climb, also bad. Insanity in a word.
      1. domokl
        domokl 27 August 2013 09: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Yes, you at least turn things around, Russia is all to blame

        Greetings Sasha! And you can’t argue with this statement. Especially now, when the time is approaching. And then there will be a circus in general. lol
      2. klimpopov
        klimpopov 27 August 2013 09: 08 New
        +8
        And some have a different opinion ...
        To Ukrainians seeking to Russia: “Be glad you don’t live there. You are very lucky.”

        Former Russian TV presenter Yevgeny Kiselyov, now working as a top manager on Inter TV channel of Ukrainian gas oligarch Dmitry Firtash, made it clear that he dreams that Ukraine would not join the Customs Union.

        “I have a dream - to see you as soon as possible, Ukraine, as part of a united Europe. On Independence Day, I wish you to happen as soon as possible, ”Kiselev said in an appeal to viewers.

        It is known that not so long ago Kiselyov announced his desire to obtain a passport of a citizen of Ukraine, which means an automatic renunciation of Russian citizenship.

        The presenter also emphasized that the residents of South-East of Ukraine who sincerely love Russia, should actually be glad that today they live in a separate country, and not in the Russian Federation.

        “I speak to those people who dream of uniting with Mother Russia. Guys, you aspiring there, have not been there for a long time. You have not lived there for a long time. You live in independent Ukraine, and be happy. You are very lucky, ”Kiselyov said in an interview with Odessa's ATV channel.

        PS Today, Monday, 26.08.2013 in Tallinn.

        We cannot lose Ukraine - the supreme representative of the European Union.

        European Union High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Catherine Ashton said that Brussels "cannot lose Ukraine", as it is very important for Europe.

        “We cannot lose Ukraine,” the European politician stressed at a meeting with Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip. In turn, the representative of Estonia added that the Association Agreement with the EU, which Ukraine can sign at the summit in Vilnius, will bring relations with Europe to a new level.

        At the same time, he noted that the main obstacle for the unconditional signing of the document is to change the Ukrainian judicial system. "We cannot agree with selective justice, and Ukraine is already taking steps to resolve this problem," Ansip said.

        Note that the new US ambassador to Ukraine, Jeffrey Payatt, will visit ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko to talk with her about the European integration of Ukraine and democracy in the country. Yesterday, August 25, the US ambassador to Ukraine said that the association with the EU poses no threats to the cooperation of Kiev and Moscow.
        1. Buran
          Buran 27 August 2013 10: 45 New
          +3
          And on us!
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 27 August 2013 11: 24 New
          +6
          Quote: klimpopov
          And some have a different opinion ...

          Add to this the opinion of the new American ambassador, who "is delighted with the fact that Yatsenyuk, the opposition, and Yanukovych, the president, have the same views on the EU."
        3. Horst78
          Horst78 27 August 2013 14: 31 New
          +9
          Even at school, I liked the Results with Kiselev, and now he doesn't even ask him to name the language (so as not to offend the latter for comparing with him). In general, jelly negative
          1. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 04: 34 New
            0
            Whoever Kiselyov "obEdit", he and "danceEt" ... Such representatives of the second most ancient will give a hundred uphill to the representatives of the first ...
    2. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 27 August 2013 08: 55 New
      16
      Maybe so it will be clear about the "crap principles" of the "equality" of the people and the authorities.
      1. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 27 August 2013 08: 57 New
        10
        Again, the Russians are not divided correctly? belay
        Again famine?

        Well, you fucking live in your own independent, well, come and say "Russian brother, we were wrong, take us back," but no, all with a pitchfork in the direction of Mother Russia poke and shout that the mother is doing wrong.

        It seems that the Russian political elite cannot afford to rely on compatriots living in Ukraine. But why? This question must be addressed, including in the highest offices. For example, why in so many years of his presidency, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has never met with compatriots in Ukraine? Not once, for all three terms!
        Guys, aren't you crazy? So that the Russian prince would bow to you?
        As they said above, "there is no queue at the embassies for passports", which means that you will live well.
        In the meantime, it cannot but be surprising that over the past 22 years in Russia, virtually no one has seriously worked to strengthen Russian positions in Ukraine. If anyone tried, either on a personal initiative, or in an attempt to get grants, but talking about serious work for all this time is not necessary.
        Which politicians have made contact with Russia in all 25 years?
        A lot of those?
        What, after all, is more important for the Kremlin - the interests of their elites or the interests of those who, by the will of fate after the collapse of the USSR, ended up in another country?
        Russians in Tachikistons, etc. was in a much more deplorable and dangerous state, but all who wanted and could - had long been in their BIG homeland.
        And only Ukrainian-Russian, who was not persecuted or driven from work because he was Russian, howls.
        What is it for? Oh yes! Russia is to blame!
        1. domokl
          domokl 27 August 2013 09: 10 New
          +6
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Which politicians have made contact with Russia in all 25 years?
          A lot of those?

          What for? They have a multi-vector policy laughing And if Russia shows its teeth a little bit and suppresses-screams-They drag us by the ears in the TS. Well, why on earth are such allies to us?
          And then a completely different scenario comes into play. Beneficial to everyone except, of course, Ukraine. The country is lowered to the level of some Cyprus or Greece. To fall apart, to hell with it, not to fall apart, will be a market of cheap labor and trash.
          In such a situation, both the wolves (NATO and the USA) and the sheep (CU and Russia) will be both full and intact ...
          1. Refund_SSSR
            Refund_SSSR 27 August 2013 09: 15 New
            +7
            Well, the author is in favor of "nezalezhnost", but at the expense of Russia laughing
            Judging by a similar course, its part in the pie charts is the one with the star of David ...
            "And eat the fish and not sit down in one place."
            Such friends, personally to me, are not necessary.
          2. slas
            slas 27 August 2013 11: 39 New
            +2
            Quote: domokl
            . The country is lowered to the level of any Cyprus or Greece.

            You answered almost all the questions the West does because it loves everything for free (the fact that Ukraine is as weak as ever on all issues is denied) and combining the useful with the pleasant to make Russia bad and the assignee of the USSR because the oligarchs also love the most and for small denyuzhki and therefore lobby and support actions that are explicit or hidden in the bending of Ukraine so that later on, if it’s tearful they don’t ask for them under their wing so cheap you want to buy everything That's all and don’t look in the same room you know who )))
            1. domokl
              domokl 27 August 2013 16: 17 New
              +5
              Quote: slas
              You answered almost all the questions

              Tell the West ... For more than 20 years there has been a hidden war between the Ukrainian people. Even here you can clearly see the relationship between East and West. All the troubles of Ukraine are not from the West or Russia, but from the fact that you do not have a single people. , there is no single culture. Too different parts of the country ...
              1. slas
                slas 27 August 2013 17: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: domokl
                . All the troubles of Ukraine are not from the West or Russia, but from the fact that you do not have a single people

                And this is, but that’s not the point, this is not the essence of what’s happening, this is not what I already answered above
        2. Pit
          Pit 27 August 2013 09: 18 New
          +5
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          well, come and say "Russian brother, we were wrong, take us back"

          And the meaning of these words? How many times has this happened, they go, they beat the forehead with their brow, swear allegiance to the dogs, and after 50-100 years they grow fat and again along the old path, nezalezhnost, independence, Muscovites cursed, invaders, etc. Look in the history textbook how many times Ukraine separated and then crawled again. If we accept it again, it will be necessary to disperse their elites along Vorkuta and Kolyma and never to allow the national leadership to have, but any independence by knee iron. Then they will be pissed off and we will not have hemorrhoids.
          1. Refund_SSSR
            Refund_SSSR 27 August 2013 09: 29 New
            +7
            So then we and the Russians are all that are forever fragmented, but always coming together and it is together strength.
            But the elite and the oligakhs must be driven at home.
            But there are only three options.
            * Ukraine is independent in the EU and is actually an enemy of Russia. And contact with enemies is purely cautious and without concessions.
            * Ukraine is independent in the Customs Union on equal terms and without any "Russia owes everything to everyone, and Ukraine owes nothing, but has the right to everything."
            * The last option - there is no Ukraine, there is only the Russian Federation or Russia (which includes former Ukrainian lands).
            That's it ... And the rest is half measures.
            1. Pit
              Pit 27 August 2013 09: 36 New
              +2
              Moreover, the third option, in my purely subjective opinion, is the most preferable.
            2. ATATA
              ATATA 27 August 2013 12: 45 New
              0
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              * The last option - there is no Ukraine, there is only the Russian Federation or Russia (which includes former Ukrainian lands).
              That's it ... And the rest is half measures.

              That's right! drinks
            3. Makhno
              Makhno 27 August 2013 16: 26 New
              -11
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              * The last option - there is no Ukraine, there is only the Russian Federation or Russia (which includes former Ukrainian lands).

              "Notes of a Madman" Vol. II?
              It is better to wait as we, Ukrainians, "will crawl on our knees to you and we will beg to accept you back." I suspect that the waiters and two lives will not be enough. laughing
            4. Barrel
              Barrel 28 August 2013 12: 22 New
              -1
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              Ukraine independent in the CU on an equal footing

              Do you know on what conditions Ukraine joined the TS as an observer, and on what conditions did it enter there? As always. “Never trust an alliance with the powerful” - Fedr. So it was in 1654, Ukraine entered the kingdom as a protectorate, and after a couple of decades it lost its last privileges.
              =
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              The last option - no Ukraine exists, there is only the Russian Federation or Russia (which includes former Ukrainian lands).

              So then, on the contrary, Russian lands are part of Ukraine, since 1) Kiev is the capital of Russia, it was called Kievan Rus. 2) The trident was the coat of arms of Vladimir the Great. 3) Geographically, Russia was to a greater extent in Ukraine.
          2. So_o_tozh
            So_o_tozh 28 August 2013 01: 04 New
            -3
            Oops, to despair and get up to my feet, anu ku anuk from this place is more detailed when it crawled apart? belay in 1917 They tried, just as Poland and Finland became an independent state, as I recall, the Bolsheviks immediately went to war, if not the Germans, then the agony before 1920. wouldn’t drag on.
            And here, with the second half, the campaign really matters, I have a dream to invite a hundred thousand Germans to power in Ukraine for 10 years, starting from the head of the village and head of the districts in cities, they can make them 3 times bigger than in Germany , we’ve put things in order, because it’s not shameful to us at all times to invite the Varangians))
            To pay the Rassians for the placement of all the current ministers and the majority of deputies in the resort areas of Siberia ... all the same, all our Pachimuth thieves in the Russian Federation show up over time ...
            1. Semen Semyonitch
              Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 04: 48 New
              +1
              For raising the prestige of Siberian resorts to you hi They just dumped money, and not to Siberia. And about the Germans, you got excited. They lost their sleep, everyone thinks, how would the people of Ukraine become happier and richer))) It seems that this has happened before? II, Volkswagen ...
        3. a52333
          a52333 27 August 2013 09: 40 New
          11
          Separate the flies from the cutlets. People do not say that. So say the Ukrainian media, controlled by the government, the government, the left bank. And the people, in a large percentage, have a different opinion.
          1. Makhno
            Makhno 27 August 2013 16: 30 New
            -15
            Quote: a52333
            And the people, in a large percentage, have a different opinion.

            Did the Russian media suggest such nonsense to you? Well, well, stay in a happy delusion.
            1. Garrin
              Garrin 27 August 2013 17: 56 New
              10
              Quote: Makhno
              Did the Russian media suggest such nonsense to you? Well, well, stay in a happy delusion.

              You have been brainwashed with anti-Russian propaganda for more than 2 decades, especially in orange times. That has grown overgrown with a fragile brain.
              By the way, very noticeable. Even on our forum.
              1. Makhno
                Makhno 27 August 2013 18: 50 New
                -10
                Kid, should you understand that all those users who have opinions different from yours (by the way, it is far from the fact that it is correct) are a priori enrolled in the group of the contingent "with a fragile brain"?
                1. Garrin
                  Garrin 27 August 2013 20: 49 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Makhno
                  Kid, should you understand that all those users who have opinions different from yours (by the way, it is far from the fact that it is correct) are a priori enrolled in the group of the contingent "with a fragile brain"?

                  Judging by what you started and how you started to be rude, you once again convinced me of my innocence.
                  1. Makhno
                    Makhno 27 August 2013 22: 47 New
                    -4
                    And what did you expect in response to your rudeness that I will turn my second cheek or will I open up? Reread the comments and agree that I answered adequately. Although after such a statement
                    Once again you convinced me of my innocence.

                    I'm afraid you can’t afford it. laughing
                    1. Garrin
                      Garrin 27 August 2013 22: 54 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Makhno
                      And what did you expect in response to your rudeness,

                      Young man, do you feel emotions? You and I did not drink to the Brudershaft; keep yourself within the framework.
        4. slas
          slas 27 August 2013 09: 40 New
          +6
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Guys, aren't you crazy? So that the Russian prince would bow to you?

          Here is the attitude of Russian patriots to Russians abroad and you can imagine how the bureaucratic apparatus relates to this issue. No comments
          1. domokl
            domokl 27 August 2013 09: 59 New
            +5
            Quote: slas
            Here is the attitude of Russian patriots to Russians abroad

            This is the attitude of citizens of one country to citizens of another. We are friends of families, but at home we have different pockets and different. And who and whom feels the second thing. Russians, Russian citizens live in Russia, and Ukrainians, Ukrainian citizens live in Ukraine.
            Look at any competition - the Ukrainian athlete Petrova won the run. Glory to the Ukrainian sport. The Russian athlete Ignatenko won the trampoline. Glory to the Russian sport!
            1. slas
              slas 27 August 2013 10: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: domokl
              .We are friends of families, but at home we have different pockets and different

              I completely agree with you, but where I looked into your pocket, indicate to the blind I drink pzhlst
              1. domokl
                domokl 28 August 2013 06: 05 New
                -1
                Quote: slas
                but where I looked into your pocket indicate blindly

                Ridiculously. Do not tell me who has financial claims? From Russia to Ukraine or from Ukraine to Russia? Who requires loans and other help? What is it called? Which country owes another ordinary money?
                And taxes for Russia I pay. So I feed you. For your specific hard-earned money.
            2. slas
              slas 27 August 2013 11: 15 New
              +1
              Quote: domokl
              This is the attitude of citizens of one country to citizens of another

              If this is your opinion then you are citizens of your country
            3. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 27 August 2013 20: 09 New
              +4
              Quote: domokl
              This is the attitude of the citizens of one country to the citizens of another. We are friends of families, but at home we are different and our pockets are different. And who and whom feels the second thing.

              Brostier, relations between citizens of the Russian Federation and Ukraine do not determine anything now. There are two clans of merchants in power - the Kremlin and Kiev, and they then pipiski and measured. Some block the gas, others are flaunting the NATO Union! They have nothing unifying! The people from them have only problems, why should we share something with the Russians and Ukrainians?
              1. bilgesez
                bilgesez 27 August 2013 22: 37 New
                0
                There are no two clan traders - one clan and they and we (guess for yourself what kind of clan) operate on the principle of divide and conquer.
        5. slas
          slas 27 August 2013 11: 57 New
          +7
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Russians in Tachikistons, etc. was in a much more deplorable and dangerous state, but all who wanted and could - had long been in their BIG homeland.

          When your throat is cut or your family is indiscriminately raped in front of your eyes, I’ll see how you’ll run away from fear to your big homeland at the end of the 80s I was in Uzbekistan at the end of the XNUMXs and I know what I’m talking about And your key "" "but who wanted AND MOG "" "--- and who could not? According to your logic, those weak links are not worthy of being called Russians? Eh however
        6. vostok1982
          vostok1982 27 August 2013 20: 40 New
          +9
          They are camps, but Ukraine is Russian land. If we leave here, it means that millions of Russian people who fell on this earth, our ancestors, were they wasting in vain? In vain did they fight with the Polovtsian-Pechenegs, Tatars and Turks? In vain did Peter beat the Swede, in vain did Suvorov and Potemkin pour blood, freeing the beautiful land - New Russia? In vain imperial troops fought with the Germans and Austrians? In vain did the Soviet troops force the Dnieper and the Bug? Is it all in vain? To leave ???
          I will only leave from here in a carriage in a concentration camp! Well, maybe in the partisan coffin yet.
      2. domokl
        domokl 27 August 2013 09: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        equality of "people and authorities.

        In the same way, you can change the inscription-Where power-20 developed countries, where the bone is all the rest. fellow
    3. slas
      slas 27 August 2013 09: 30 New
      +7
      Quote: domokl
      .But something in line at the Russian embassy for Russian citizenship is not observed. And, therefore, everything else is just words

      And who needs us there? Russians, by the will of fate, on an alien living there. There is money, even in Paraguay you can settle down and live normally. But there are no ships. Are you ready for any Tajik Uzbek, and especially from the Caucasus and so on and so on and kissing a mani ass and a broken this is the head of the cops with subsequent detention and showing on TV such as how we work (and those who were mostly caught on the market and again simple), and this is only in Moscow. I didn’t want to write, I thought, I read articles, reviews, news, and after reading a couple of three for everyone like you
      Quote: domokl
      To reproach Russia with the fact that it does little to interfere in the affairs of others, as it’s not very

      Excuse me, but ... you fell on me to reproach you, and if you are talking about the Ukrainian government, then just write and you don’t have to put them all in one basket
      Quote: domokl
      ? It doesn’t happen. Are you either a citizen or kindly wander off to where you feel better

      Once again, I apologize, but let you go To or choose where you will feel better Sorry wrote on emotions
      1. domokl
        domokl 27 August 2013 09: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: slas
        And who needs us there

        Dear, come to us in Siberia ... Earth is the sea, the expanses are deserted, not developed.
        Quote: slas
        You didn’t want to write, thought, read articles, reviews, news, and after reading a couple of three for everyone like you

        I didn’t just want to, but I myself wrote reviews and articles. In Russia, not a single policeman will stop the Ukrainian and expel him outside the country. There is such an order. So do not talk nonsense.
        Quote: slas
        but let you go to or choose where you will be better

        Let’s. Only then, let’s not demand any concessions or benefits from us, do not blame us for not pulling your ears from the crap you climbed into. The article clearly states that the Russians should help us. we don’t owe you anymore. There is Russia and there is Ukraine. And I repeat, there are citizens of Russia, and there are citizens of Ukraine. Regardless of origin.
        1. slas
          slas 27 August 2013 09: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: domokl
          Dear, come to us in Siberia ... Earth is the sea, the expanses are deserted, not developed.

          Yes, with pleasure, besides, my parents are in my Omsk region, Mr. Kalachinsk
          Quote: domokl
          I’m not just a hotel but I also wrote

          I didn’t expect from you
          Quote: domokl
          And I repeat, there are citizens of Russia, and there are citizens of Ukraine. Regardless of origin

          Well, you have to talk about it right away, otherwise at the beginning "" "Yes, we are brothers Slavs, and we are all from the same Kievan Rus, well, purely Kirkorov and Pugachikha were sweetly so much as the women furtively brushed off a tear, but how hard you need to biceps and not a ring-shaped muscle, so immediately tobacco apart and I will immediately notice such an attitude as your type
          Quote: domokl
          -There are citizens of Russia, and there are citizens of Ukraine. Regardless of origin.

          was 15 and 10 and 5 years ago and now
          1. domokl
            domokl 27 August 2013 10: 03 New
            -4
            Quote: slas
            Well, you have to talk about it right away, otherwise at the beginning "" "Yes, we are brothers Slavs, yes we are all from the same Kievan Rus, well, purely Kirkorov and Pugachikha are sweet

            In Russia, a fairy tale about Kievan Rus has not passed for a long time. This is more of a Ukrainian theme.
            So what prevents you from returning to Kalachinsk? Then you will have the right to speak on behalf of not some foreign Russians, but simply on behalf of the Russians.
            1. slas
              slas 27 August 2013 10: 27 New
              +3
              Quote: domokl
              In Russia, a fairy tale about Kievan Rus has not passed for a long time. This is more of a Ukrainian theme.
              So what prevents you from returning to Kalachinsk? Then you will have the right to speak on behalf of not some foreign Russians, but simply on behalf of the Russians

              I won’t argue with you, no sense, you’re transferring everything into the plane of material relations and the image of the Ukraine-people as a beggar, although the Ukraine-government is correct. your "ABOUT THIS HUMPER, so this is both our and YOUR topic
              Quote: domokl
              Then you will have the right to speak on behalf of not some foreign Russians, but simply on behalf of the Russians.

              When you give money to your children for lunch (or gave) you do not charge them with pension tax
              1. domokl
                domokl 27 August 2013 16: 13 New
                +4
                Quote: slas
                I won’t argue with you. No, you are transferring everything to the plane of material relations.

                And what plane are you transferring to? Help the Russians in Ukraine. It’s interesting how you ask to help you? Tell me, are you our guys, but why aren’t ours? Speculation with Slavic roots for too long has led to this being boring and doesn’t work for the majority. We don’t need younger or older brothers. We just need brothers. If you like, twins ...
                Quote: slas
                When you give money to your children for lunch (or gave) you do not charge them with pension tax

                It’s interesting how the phrase coined by you relates to these words? Alas, I don’t take pension tax from children. And I don’t even take income tax.
                But adult uncles and aunts should already pay. Just like me.
            2. Shkodnik65
              Shkodnik65 27 August 2013 11: 30 New
              10
              In Russia, a fairy tale about Kievan Rus has not passed for a long time. This is more of a Ukrainian theme.
              So what prevents you from returning to Kalachinsk? Then you will have the right to speak on behalf of not some foreign Russians, but simply on behalf of the Russians.

              Generally interesting logic. This is our everything. While you are in Ukraine (Lithuania, Moldavia ...) you are "non-Russian". You can only be Russian "in Kalachinsk". I constantly came across this psychology in the army among conscripts: Uzbeks, Chechens, Tatars, all in a heap, and only Russians - on their own, which is why they were chased away (at that time the rest of the Russians stood aside and watched as they were beaten). Respected domokiI’m much closer to Ivanov living in Estonia or Ukraine than the XNUMX% Russian AHMAT KADYROV (who may not have been abroad. Although no, he was in Georgia when he was resting after bandit raids on our roadblocks). It is not necessary to-o-z-l-and-t-nt of their compatriots given that, in principle, we have nothing from the gas dough. I am talking about ordinary people.
              1. timurso
                timurso 27 August 2013 13: 21 New
                +1
                it is strange of course to consider Russian Ivanov, who took the citizenship of Ukraine / Lithuania / Estonia / Moldova ... and the like, advocates lowering the status of the Russian language (this is generally nonsense, then call it Russian), advocates joining / being in anti-Russian NATO, calling Russia a scoop and screaming all Russian as wretched and backward. Greetings all that somehow harm Russia.
                1. slas
                  slas 27 August 2013 14: 33 New
                  +4
                  Quote: timurso
                  it is strange of course to consider Russian Ivanov, who took the citizenship of Ukraine / Lithuania / Estonia / Moldova ... and the like, advocates lowering the status of the Russian language (this is generally nonsense, then call it Russian)

                  Well, you point out that there is such Ivanov and he wants a radish in NATO, but he doesn’t need all to fit the same Russian comb. Which for events in Russia are also experiencing no less than yours
                  1. timurso
                    timurso 27 August 2013 15: 44 New
                    +1
                    I used to think that it was necessary to protect compatriots, etc.
                    But I quite often visit Estonia, so I looked at these very "Russians". Of course, among them there are those who have acquired Estonian citizenship due to really serious circumstances. But the overwhelming majority REFUSE Russian citizenship for ideological reasons, because for them to be somehow connected with Russia is equal to being backward, a scoop, a loser. Therefore, whenever possible, they take Estonian / Latvian citizenship or live without citizenship. Therefore, I believe that it is necessary to harness for those who, no matter what, remained a citizen of Russia.
                2. grafrozow
                  grafrozow 27 August 2013 15: 16 New
                  +4
                  Quote: timurso
                  it is strange of course to consider Russian Ivanov, who took the citizenship of Ukraine
                  What do you know about this? My sister in Ukraine in Kakhovka, told how she "took" citizenship - At work, they were forced to hand over their passports and the soldiers were sent to the personnel department for verification, they were returned back with the stamps of "the citizens of Ukraine". No one asked anyone whether he wants it or not, and her husband was stamped in a military soldier - he took an oath of allegiance to Ukraine. The sister and her husband are Russians and would gladly move to Russia, but what awaits them here? The procedure for obtaining citizenship lasts 5 years, there are problems with housing, how and with work. Our state is ready to help the Arabs, Caucasians ... but not their Russians. If you are not aware of these problems, then you better shut up.
                  1. slas
                    slas 27 August 2013 18: 04 New
                    +3
                    Quote: grafrozow
                    .Sister and her husband are Russian and would love to move to Russia, but what awaits them here? The procedure for obtaining citizenship lasts 5 years, with housing problems, as well as work. Our state is ready to help Arabs, Caucasians ... but not their Russians


                    I agree with you for 100 percent) Crossing the border easily and then? Citizenship work and housing is the question of questions Well, okay, 20-30 years old, and if from 45 yes to 60 then what? AND? That's it. It’s for you. Life is not a Hollywood cinema or a comic book.
    4. Simon
      Simon 27 August 2013 09: 40 New
      +2
      Totally agree with you! And why should Putin go to Ukraine and get in touch with Ukrainians loyal to Russia, let them go to him themselves, and the money transferred to them which is taken from our taxes will be stolen.
    5. seller trucks
      seller trucks 27 August 2013 09: 47 New
      +5
      Quote: domokl
      .Ukraine is an independent state



      that you sho? By all indicators (economic, political and military) in the early 90s Ukraine was supposed to become one of the largest geopolitical players, which is what the article says. What is in Ukraine now: it is a buffer (between the West and the Russian Federation), a disputed territory, with a ruined economy, a puppet, impotent government and unable to defend its borders, "killed" by the army. Ukraine exists within its current borders as long as major geopolitical players want it, and until it becomes a "player" itself, it makes no sense to take it into account. Upon joining the EU, Ukraine has a chance to become the most remote province in Europe.
      1. domokl
        domokl 27 August 2013 10: 09 New
        -1
        Quote: seller trucks
        What is now in Ukraine: this is a buffer (between the West and the Russian Federation), a disputed territory,

        I would advise you to think a little before writing. What does the economic and other state of the country have to do with it? Have you forgotten what state Russia was in twenty years ago? However, even then it was Russia, and not some kind of territory. Ukraine is also a country, territories only in Antarctica remained.
        Quote: seller trucks
        In the current borders of Ukraine, there are so far large geopolitical players want it

        Any country exists absolutely under the same conditions. There are several geopolitical players, the rest are pawns.
        Quote: seller trucks
        When joining the EU, Ukraine has a chance to become the most deaf province in Europe.

        There is a chance. And I would say that it will be so, if, of course, Ukraine retains its integrity.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 27 August 2013 10: 27 New
          0
          Quote: domokl
          What does the economic and other state of the country have to do with it? Have you forgotten what state Russia was in twenty years ago?


          No, I haven’t forgotten, I still remember what Russia (USSR) was 30 years ago. We are talking about completely different three states.

          Quote: domokl
          .Ukraine is also a country, territories remained only in Antarctica.


          who would have thought. Well done, Ukrainians, blinded shit out of candy, nothing to add.
        2. slas
          slas 27 August 2013 11: 19 New
          0
          Quote: domokl
          was Russia, and not some kind of territory there. Ukraine

          We look at how the name of the country is written and understand how it is thought and done
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 27 August 2013 13: 53 New
            +1
            It seems that you have nothing to get to the bottom.
            As in the fact that Ukraine is written with a small letter.
            While snatching words out of context.
            1. slas
              slas 27 August 2013 14: 48 New
              +2
              Quote: domokl
              I didn’t just want to, but I also wrote reviews and articles myself

              Is this a worthy answer to you? Who served in the army during the Soviet era remembers the saying "" Today the collar didn’t hem and tomorrow you’ll sell your homeland "" --- it all starts small And finally I don’t dig, but try to explain to the best of my ability that flies should be separate from cutlets and it is not necessary to find fault with the people of the country, in particular the Russians, and put them on a par with those goons under the rule of leading the country into the abyss
    6. viktorR
      viktorR 27 August 2013 13: 04 New
      +7
      That is, should I collect manat and bring down from Sevastopol, for which so much Russian blood has been shed? As you all just decided. And you think Sevastopol, and you think Crimea ... Not for this my great-grandfathers and grandfathers shed blood.
      I advise you to rethink your point of view.
      1. timurso
        timurso 27 August 2013 13: 34 New
        +4
        please answer, but most of the residents of Sevastopol and the Crimea in general (not including the Tatars) consider themselves Ukrainians or Russians? I would like to know, so to speak from the first person, and not from what the press writes and all kinds of analysts there.
        1. biglow
          biglow 27 August 2013 19: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: timurso
          please answer, but most of the residents of Sevastopol and the Crimea in general (not including the Tatars) consider themselves Ukrainians or Russians? I would like to know, so to speak from the first person, and not from what the press writes and all kinds of analysts there.

          most Crimean residents consider themselves Russian with Ukrainian passports. The Tatars are also not so simple and there is no unity between them.
          Who happens to be in the Crimea probably saw that Russian flags hang in many cars and minibuses and just private cars and this is not for window dressing or attracting tourists, this would be to show their position. Many say that in the Crimea the people are a greater patriot of Russia than in Russia itself.
  3. Alez
    Alez 27 August 2013 08: 36 New
    +4
    The oligarchy rushes to Europe, the rich will become richer, the poor even poorer.
  4. a52333
    a52333 27 August 2013 08: 39 New
    +6
    Over the past 22 years in Russia, virtually no one has seriously worked to strengthen Russian positions in Ukraine.
    Unfortunately. This is true. Amer showed how they are able to change the governments of other countries, but we, despite such a backlog as a common history and a single people, do not want to do this rock. There are more important tasks. At the same time, the US continues to carry out the GENOCIDE of the fraternal people
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 27 August 2013 08: 46 New
      0
      Quote: a52333
      . At the same time, the US continues to carry out the GENOCIDE of the fraternal people

      And what, the brotherly people themselves do not see in which swamp they drag it? Or, without Russia, they can’t do anything at all except how to blame Russia for everything.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 27 August 2013 13: 04 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And what, the brotherly people themselves do not see in which swamp they drag it?

        Here is no need to la-la about the people and their capabilities. Remember the dashing 90s. Remember what happened - NATO generals climb our secret planes, our bases, Yeltsin is a soul man! - everything is ready to show, the people of Russia see that is the Sabbath going on, and what? The people have risen? "Treason!" Shouted the Malchish-kibalchish! "Figushki! Nothing depends on the people either in Russia or in Ukraine. There is such a children's game," King of the Hill. " He does what he wants. Here is such a king of the hill in any republic of the former USSR. And all the talk is that people can ... should ... if they see ... or don't see ... this is bullshit. The West coughed to Yanyk-everything "Vanya, I am yours forever!"
        1. Very old
          Very old 27 August 2013 13: 28 New
          +2
          For "opportunity" a certain critical point, a line, is necessary, followed by an explosion - we somehow did not learn to develop in an evolutionary way, we do not know how. Nothing depends on US. ET exactly as Comrade Sukhov said.
    2. domokl
      domokl 27 August 2013 09: 13 New
      0
      Quote: a52333
      we, in spite of such a backlog as a common history and a single people, do not want to do this rock.

      Many times, Ukraine was invited in various ways to enter the structures of the TS. You, and I’ll think, Ukraine has relations not only with Russia. Little Belarus is also in no hurry to talk about friendship and integration with Ukraine. But who generally says? Probably only Romania
      1. a52333
        a52333 27 August 2013 09: 19 New
        +4
        Well, well, within the framework of the Ukrainian constitution, a referendum on independence can be held in Crimea.
      2. Far East
        Far East 27 August 2013 11: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        Many times, Ukraine was invited in various ways to enter the structures of the TS. You, and I’ll think, Ukraine has relations not only with Russia. Little Belarus is also in no hurry to talk about friendship and integration with Ukraine. But who generally says? Probably only Romania

        It's like that! but there is BUT! Now, would you give up unlimited power in your state? I think no. they quickly get used to the good! I mean (to power) like that, and nobody wants to! hi
  5. Gecko
    Gecko 27 August 2013 08: 40 New
    -3
    If Ukraine becomes part of the EU, I will never call the Ukrainians brothers again, the traitors are their name ...
    1. mak210
      mak210 27 August 2013 08: 49 New
      +8
      Ukrainians are blood brothers, so that relatives do not, it is impossible to break the connection with them. And little depends on the people: did the Russians want to join the WTO? So what? It turns out I am also a traitor? Bullshit.
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 27 August 2013 08: 53 New
        0
        If your brother told you that you were flawed and went into the camp of the enemy, is this not a betrayal?
      2. domokl
        domokl 27 August 2013 09: 20 New
        +5
        Quote: mak210
        Ukrainians are blood brothers, so that relatives do not, it is impossible to break the connection with them.

        It is by blood. Only by the blood of our fighters in Chechnya, in South Ossetia. Stop talking to me about brotherhood. The people who reproach me for stealing it constantly, for not feeding it from my own, far from fat the pocket that my son helps Ossetians and Abkhazians to save their lives, I’m no longer a brother.
        I already wrote like that, but I repeat, for some reason the last 20 years, when I was shitty, the people who are completely not brotherly by blood are nearby, but the brothers are always on the other side.
        1. Sour
          Sour 27 August 2013 20: 52 New
          +1
          domokl, I will subscribe under every word. We would not need such "brothers". We can manage somehow. These "brothers" hate Russia and Russians a hundred times more than any George W. Bush. I admit that not all. But most are for sure. And it did not appear today or yesterday. I remember Soviet times very well.
          1. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 28 August 2013 05: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Sour
            domokl, I will subscribe under every word. We would not need such "brothers". We can manage somehow. These "brothers" hate Russia and Russians a hundred times more than any George W. Bush. I admit that not all. But most are for sure. And it did not appear today or yesterday. I remember Soviet times very well.

            How sad it is to realize this, I agree with you. I remember the service in Chernivtsi, where I found myself in splendid isolation between the communities of local Ukrainians, Azeris, Turkmen, etc. It was much more difficult to find a common language with the Slavic brothers. In fairness, most of them were from western Ukraine.
      3. seller trucks
        seller trucks 27 August 2013 09: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: mak210
        Ukrainians are blood brothers


        aha, schaz. in Ukraine, in all seriousness, they believe that they are the descendants of the Trypillians-Sarmatians-Scythians, moreover, Ukrainian scientists "discovered" a "Ukrainian" genn, but the Russians, as you understand, are the descendants of the Finno-Ugric peoples. Don't believe me? You are welcome:

        1. washi
          washi 27 August 2013 10: 59 New
          +4
          And I read that, before the arrival of the Rurikovich from Novgorod, Kiev was under the control of the Khazar Khaganate (as usual they drove into debt, put their own prince). Now the situation is the same.
        2. Very old
          Very old 27 August 2013 13: 12 New
          +4
          Vital, such "Aryans" and we have enough. From Edinka Limonov to the historian-writer Lyovushka Gumilyov (the deceased did not like Russia, he prophesied a quick death for her). Well, to hell with them. Maybe Ukraine has not been ill with the disease of becoming? Russia is also in sores ... And we want to correct a lot in our state. My COUNTRY, I love Russia. But why do we get the wrong state, the wrong power?
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 27 August 2013 23: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: gecko
      If Ukraine becomes part of the EU, I will never call the Ukrainians brothers again, the traitors are their name ...

      No need to hide, "if" has not yet arrived
      1. JackTheRipper
        JackTheRipper 28 August 2013 06: 51 New
        0
        Actually, here
  6. 416sd
    416sd 27 August 2013 08: 41 New
    +7
    I understand everything, and the fact that Russia is irritated by the foreign policy of Ukraine, and the fact that the mess that is happening in the political elite of Ukraine irritates the Ukrainians themselves, and the fact that without Russia Ukraine cannot go far, etc. But I don't want to see titles of articles like this from Russian or Ukrainian authors. It is necessary always, despite the most primitive level of the opponent to respect the elementary generally accepted principles, Russia is a country that can "work" in the Ukrainian direction and with the condition of Ukrainian sovereignty. And the fascist occupation is not at all the topic here. Don't be like the UNA / UNSO cattle.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 27 August 2013 08: 45 New
    +2
    "What, in the end, is more important for the Kremlin - the interests of its elites or the interests of those who, by the will of fate, after the collapse of the USSR, ended up in another country?"

    Ideally, neither of those and others, but the interests of their people.
    1. 416sd
      416sd 27 August 2013 08: 46 New
      11
      That is ideal. Stalin left behind a table, a chair, a pipe, a tunic, holey boots and an empire from ocean to ocean ... Should I continue in comparison?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 27 August 2013 08: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: 416sd
        Stalin left behind a table, a chair, a pipe, a tunic, holey boots and an empire from ocean to ocean ... Should I continue in comparison?

        But is Stalin necessarily everywhere an example? An article on the attitude of Russia towards the fraternal people. Everywhere cry about the fact that Russia is not strengthening its position in Ukraine, and that Ukraine itself needs a good relationship with our country? And then wherever you kiss - ass. Yes, Russia sells expensive gas to a neighbor. What steps is Ukraine taking to remain a true friend and ally? Maybe the SS men are being driven? Maybe there are no problems with the Black Sea Fleet? Can real steps towards integration be taken?
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 27 August 2013 09: 03 New
          +3
          Gas was cheap, but it did not bring happiness to the ordinary people, the Ukrainian oligarchs were welded on this, and the people were told that the damned Russians were to blame for everything ...
        2. slas
          slas 27 August 2013 14: 59 New
          +4
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Yes, Russia sells expensive gas to a neighbor. What steps is Ukraine taking to remain a true friend and ally? Maybe the SS men are being driven? Maybe there are no problems with the Black Sea Fleet? Can real steps towards integration be taken?

          Well, we were not lucky with the government at all. They promised with three boxes, and as a result, you sew as many as ten tenths. But why should the people to blame the Russians living abroad, especially?
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 27 August 2013 23: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: 416sd
        That is ideal. Stalin left behind a table, a chair, a pipe, a tunic, holey boots and an empire from ocean to ocean ...

        Stalin - from plow to a nuclear bomb.
        From ocean to ocean - Ivan the Terrible
  8. 128mgb
    128mgb 27 August 2013 08: 50 New
    +2
    It is significant that in the Ukrainian media the number of those celebrating the day of no-ty is defined at one million. This is the actual number of those to whom "independence" has given something and how many people out of about 40 "independence" welcomes.
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 27 August 2013 08: 52 New
      +3
      There are still people who dream of becoming dependent on Europe.
  9. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 27 August 2013 08: 55 New
    +9
    It seems to me that 22 years of so-called "independence" have shown that in Ukraine "Independence Day" is not a holiday as such, but another Sunday as a day on the calendar! Because for the PEOPLE OF UKRAINE more is lost than gained. hi And then probably like this:
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 27 August 2013 14: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Valery Neonov
      It seems to me that 22 years of so-called "independence" have shown that in Ukraine "Independence Day" is not a holiday as such, but another Sunday as a day on the calendar!

      Exactly, I personally didn’t go fishing badly, many dug potatoes ...
  10. 787nkx
    787nkx 27 August 2013 09: 18 New
    +4
    Russia has a great interest in a strong and friendly Ukraine.
    What has Russia done to raise relations to a new level?
    Maybe there were some steps, but nothing is known about them.
    On the other hand, a very adequate customs response to Roshen, and at the same time to all other Ukrainian exporters, clearly shows what positions one should be friends with.
    We are trying to steer very distant international processes, but we cannot establish relations with our closest neighbor. Establishing proper relations with Belarus and Ukraine, supporting forces in these countries aimed at integration with Russia, restoring cooperation in production are the priority areas of our foreign policy.
    1. bilgesez
      bilgesez 27 August 2013 22: 47 New
      +2
      But Putin fully satisfied the Caucasians. they are going to build some kind of non-memorial tower.
  11. Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 27 August 2013 09: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: gecko
    Jews, as always, are busy with "business" :(

    This one alone is worth it!
    http://politikym.net/dosie/gurvic_eduard_gurvic_bez_cenzyru.htm
  12. Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 27 August 2013 09: 29 New
    +2
    It's a shame for Ukraine! In the wrong place, they seek freedom!
  13. basil200
    basil200 27 August 2013 09: 33 New
    +2
    Everywhere and everywhere, Israel pokes its long nose. And they swear why they don’t like Jews.
  14. Moon
    Moon 27 August 2013 09: 39 New
    +3
    Quote: Luna
    Ukraine cannot go far without Russia

    Did Brzezinski tell you that?

    There was a period in history when the lands that today are called Ukraine, headed by Kiev, were under Poland for several centuries, but Russia did not disappear from this, and on the contrary, developed and grew stronger
  15. minimum
    minimum 27 August 2013 09: 45 New
    -7
    Forget about Ukraine, it sailed away, partly due to the efforts of the Kremlin, partly because the current criminal Russia as an ally is clearly not so hot. The EU or Russia with its corruption and crime, what to choose for Ukraine, well, just an unrealistically terrible dilemma)
  16. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 27 August 2013 09: 57 New
    +3
    So much has been said about Ukraine that I don’t even know, in the end, apparently most of the Ukrainian people want to integrate into Europe, in the end it’s apparently their democratic choice, if statements like “Goodbye Russia and Hello Europe” people are silent, then if I do not agree, then at least not against, we in Russia will probably have to observe another "experiment" near our borders. By the way, in the "bloody dungeons" of the FSB, you cannot even beat anyone, what is happening in the dungeons of the Gollan Gestapo stuffed with gays and stoned tolerasts, I even scary to assume.
  17. individual
    individual 27 August 2013 10: 44 New
    +3
    When Ukraine fled from the USSR, it took its pants off, now going to the raskoryaku in the EU, the patch of latka will not find nudity to cover up.
    So it turns nezalezhnost "no pants, but a hat."
  18. leon-iv
    leon-iv 27 August 2013 10: 55 New
    +4
    IMHO, the worse it will be in Ukraine, the faster it will come to Russia. And the whole political elite in the prince is not competent.
    1. yan
      yan 27 August 2013 11: 43 New
      +1
      Oddly enough, but this is true for the other republics of the USSR. As soon as the situation is getting worse, everyone is eager for the Great Brother, a little releases all sovereignty. I exaggerate of course, but in general it looks like this
  19. pensioner
    pensioner 27 August 2013 12: 34 New
    +3
    For 22 years in Russia, practically no one has seriously worked to strengthen Russian positions in Ukraine. - here, yes - that's right ... But in Ukraine, no one was doing this either! So you didn’t feel the need? If an IDEA takes possession of people, people somehow try to realize it. There are ways. Democracy after all ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 27 August 2013 23: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: retired
      For 22 years in Russia, practically no one has seriously worked to strengthen Russian positions in Ukraine. -here, yes - that's right ...

      And what is true here? The border is open, there is no visa regime, customs is open, it is not clear, is Ukraine independent or do we have the Ukrainian Federal District?
  20. pensioner
    pensioner 27 August 2013 12: 47 New
    +2
    Yes, everything in Ukraine will be HARASHO! There will be bread, wine, bacon (well, let it be imported) and potatoes with wheat. And how much does a person need for a quiet life? There will even be an army. As in Latvia approximately. With 2 tanks. Uncles - "Europeans" will walk everywhere, pointing fingers: how and what to do. Bad, or what? No need to think, do what is ordered and all the work! And plus your own farm! Well, this is generally sacred !! Dill politicians can only envy: "An independent foreign policy? Yes, we need it! They don't give money for it. Some problems from it ... The European Union has a lot of heads? Let them think for us." In general, something like this ... Even from the side it can be seen - not bad ...
  21. picnic
    picnic 27 August 2013 12: 51 New
    +2
    And how is "nezalezhnost" translated? Don't know who to lie under?
  22. Bosk
    Bosk 27 August 2013 13: 18 New
    +2
    If you take a closer look, then life is "not sugar" everywhere, if you take, for example, the people-population on the example of Latvia, then in Soviet times, if I am not mistaken, about three million lived here, now there will not be two, perhaps someone will say that like they left .. .but the most interesting thing is that there where they went, too, the population did not grow much ... rather the opposite. This I mean that now most of the republics of the former Soviet Union live as "Ukraine"
  23. Gecko
    Gecko 27 August 2013 14: 03 New
    +2
    Now it is necessary for those who wish to leave Ukraine to Russia for permanent residence to give Russian citizenship according to a simplified scheme.
    1. picnic
      picnic 27 August 2013 14: 22 New
      -4
      And on hr .. are they needed there? In Russia, its loafers are above the roof.
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 27 August 2013 22: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Picnic
        And on hr .. are they needed there? In Russia, its loafers are above the roof.
        But your fellow countrymen are working, in our DorStroy they wash the shovel before the shift.
    2. Uhe
      Uhe 27 August 2013 14: 34 New
      +4
      Not an option. It is necessary to unite countries, and the people to unite again into one. Then you won’t have to go anywhere, for there will be one land, one state. There is even a candidate for the head of this state - Lukashenko. The capital can be made even in Minsk, even in Kiev, even in Novosibirsk.

      Many Ukrainians now work in Russia. Women mainly work as saleswomen, and men work as builders. But these are all the same slaves of the bourgeoisie, and we must become masters of our common Slavic land.
    3. wax
      wax 27 August 2013 23: 26 New
      0
      To liberate Ukraine from people for settling it by whom?
  24. shurup
    shurup 27 August 2013 14: 17 New
    +2
    I agree. Before the Nazis arrived, enterprises, materials and personnel were evacuated to the east. What remained and could not be destroyed was requisitioned towards the west. After the liberation, everything was restored as soon as possible plus returned from the west with interest.
    It’s somehow difficult for me to describe the current situation, it’s really worse.
  25. Vtel
    Vtel 27 August 2013 14: 22 New
    +5
    It seems that the Russian political elite cannot afford to rely on compatriots living in Ukraine. But why?


    Maybe - they and you are full of tilko smaller, and more and more pleasant Russian faces:
    Roman Abramovich
    Alisher Usmanov
    Michael Friedman
    Viktor Vekselberg
    Iskander Makhmudov
    Suleiman Kerimov
    Alekperov
    Oleg Deripaska
    etc.
    Now, when the Russian Elite is reborn, not in form, but in spirit, then things will go up, but for now, like you, we are vegetating around a liberal bonfire - it will go extinct, then go out.
    1. Buran
      Buran 27 August 2013 14: 43 New
      +3
      The most interesting thing is that most, if not all, are former businessmen, currency speculators, swindlers on trust and stupidly reciters. They have the same psychology. For a hundred bucks, mom will take off his socks.
  26. Nike
    Nike 27 August 2013 14: 38 New
    +6
    I read the comments and about some comrades the opinion was that they are either too young or do not see beyond their pocket. I want to ask the Russians when you celebrate your independence day, in June or July? is not it? Ukraine in August, so who fled the Union earlier ?! Who shouted the loudest in those years that let everyone live on their own, and Russia itself, was it not your President B.N. Yeltsin ?! Didn't he bring down the Union ?! Gorbach felled in words, but this p ... s in deeds. And if it were not for Putin, it is not known what would have remained of Russia. The second answer. Why did the USSR drink and feed half of the world? why do americos do it? Yes, because the loyal attitude of the ruling elites is worth doing. Russian politicians do not want to understand this! do you disagree with me? name a country from the former socialist camp with which Russia had no high-profile conflicts? I think we need to live like a neighbor with our neighbors, a conflict has arisen and it must be solved like a neighbor, and not shout to the whole world (Example "Roshen")
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 27 August 2013 15: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: nike
      name the country from the former social camp with which Russia did not have high-profile conflicts

      Mongolia...
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 27 August 2013 15: 42 New
      +2
      Are you a shareholder of Roshen so worried about him?
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 27 August 2013 23: 33 New
      0
      Quote: nike
      and not scream to the whole world (Example "Roshen")

      Roshen hasn’t gone anywhere, lies on the shelves, specially looked yesterday.
  27. georg737577
    georg737577 27 August 2013 15: 21 New
    +6
    1. Ukraine suffers not from "nezalezhnosti", but from a stupid and greedy oligarchic government.
    2. The only problem of the country is the kindness, non-aggression and patience of the people. Last treated
    time (I hope the wait is short.)
    3. The independence of Russia is the actual consequence of the flight from it of all the republics of the former USSR.
    4. Writing articles like this only creates an unattractive image for Russia in the minds of Ukrainians.
  28. kush62
    kush62 27 August 2013 17: 03 New
    +2
    In Russia and Ukraine there are enough "people" eager to kiss the lower part of the Europeans. But this is not a reason to find fault and reproach each other for all mortal sins.
  29. Makhno
    Makhno 27 August 2013 17: 04 New
    -1
    Guys, I certainly understand your concern about Ukraine, the outstretched hand of disinterested help to the "brotherly people" and other, other [the line that you posted in the topic negative ..... I assure you, "rumors of death are greatly exaggerated" - Ukraine has not been striving for a long time in the "friendly embrace" of some mythical "brotherly people". We are not begging for anything and will not "crawl on our knees." Let's live in peace and friendship, but each in his own home, maintaining good neighborly relations.
    1. Cpa
      Cpa 27 August 2013 19: 06 New
      +2
      Many do not already have the same fraternal rhetoric and illusions. The brotherly people will not go to the Caucasus to fight against the brothers. Judging by the emblem of the country, Galician politics rules in Ukraine. The country itself is ethnically and politically heterogeneous. Any pressure and encouragement of neighbors can lead to Kosovo , South Ossetian or even Syrian scenario. Therefore, neither the EU, nor the CU and other blocs have anything to do there until there is a national policy. The leadership of the country also understands these risks, which is why they sent specialists to the Caucasus. You see the same risks, you see them e if they help. And this is a bell for all Ukrainians that it’s time to agree among themselves. For me, everyone wanted to do it better in the EU than a massacre near the borders of Russia.
    2. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 27 August 2013 19: 33 New
      +1
      no-not old man, please call on the sites of your Hutsul freedom with a slowdown. you got something wrong, you're not here. God’s serve on the beggars of the poor, come on, dear to the site of the ss-nakhtigal battalion. there will be no peace and friendship with you, ring in the Nakhtigal or Galicia, the SS division, for your information, squandered during the first encounter with the regular units of the Red Army. then they were punishers in the Balkans.
    3. Muadipus
      Muadipus 27 August 2013 19: 36 New
      0
      Return the Crimea !!! And live as you can.
    4. Barrel
      Barrel 27 August 2013 23: 10 New
      -1
      Makhno, I support you 100%. I realized long ago that there were no "brothers" left here. Yes, life is not sugar, compared to Europe, but I do not consider myself poor and hungry. I was in Russia and the standard of living there is exactly the same as here. On account of the "lack of understanding of the meaning of what is celebrated on both sides of the border", we all understand perfectly well that this is the day that Shevchenko prayed for, for which Timosh Khmelnitsky laid his head, for whom Lysenko wrote music ... I do not blame the Russians, I understand you, everyone would like their state to be the most powerful in the world, but we live well and "At our side".
  30. washi
    washi 27 August 2013 17: 59 New
    +1
    Ukraine is a separate state. And our people are different.
    Those who served in the late 80s may remember a textbook on military psychology and pedagogy, in which the entire population was spread out by nature and republic.
    The Russians are nonsense, but they will do everything for society - for posts related to intelligence. Okraintsy are individualists and owners, preferably as a squad leader. Uzbeks are cooks. Tajiks - by arrows.
    Etc.
    There are all problems in this individualism and property. Moreover, not only the outskirts, but also Muscovy. The rest of Russia is still holding in places
    1. biglow
      biglow 27 August 2013 19: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Vasya
      Ukraine is a separate state. And our people are different.
      Those who served in the late 80s may remember a textbook on military psychology and pedagogy, in which the entire population was spread out by nature and republic.
      The Russians are nonsense, but they will do everything for society - for posts related to intelligence. Okraintsy are individualists and owners, preferably as a squad leader. Uzbeks are cooks. Tajiks - by arrows.
      Etc.
      There are all problems in this individualism and property. Moreover, not only the outskirts, but also Muscovy. The rest of Russia is still holding in places

      do not invent, if you write about zapadentsev then in Ukraine there are not so many of them, less than 40 percent
      Most of the inhabitants of Ukraine are the southern branch of the Russian people and all
      1. Sour
        Sour 27 August 2013 21: 04 New
        +4
        Ukrainians lived with us in one state. But the Poles also lived. And their language for Russian is even more understandable than Ukrainian. And there are many Polish surnames among Russians. And genetically, the Poles (as recent studies show) are closer to Russians than Ukrainians. Are there many Russophobes among them? I agree. But among Ukrainians, too, full.
        The Russian people have no "branches". Either you are Russian or not. And this is not even a question of origin, but a question of mentality and attitude towards Russia and Russian culture.
        1. biglow
          biglow 28 August 2013 13: 06 New
          0
          Quote: Sour
          "branches". Either you are Russian or not. And this is not even a question of origin, but a question of mentality and attitude towards Russia and Russian culture.

          Pomors also do not differ from your point of view from the Russian central provinces?
          The Russian people consist of many smaller, closely related peoples, the same Cossacks for example.
          Many backgammon migrated through the territory of New Russia and they all left their genetic traces with those who lived in these places. Current genetic research just confirms all this. Ukrainians and Belarusians are two branches from the Great Russian people
    2. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 27 August 2013 19: 57 New
      0
      uv.vasha, please clarify humanly. what do you want to say about? do you drink, smoke? What do you need, Vasya? What do you want to say or ask, and, Vasya? Sorry, Vasya, but you are somehow simple, and at the same time incomprehensible. As the assistant professor in gentlemen said, Vasya-Vasya was lucky!
      Vasya-Vasya, the snout in the meat.
      1. Sour
        Sour 27 August 2013 21: 12 New
        +1
        It is always pleasant to read substantive and reasoned objections, even if I do not agree with them. And the transition to individuals (especially incoherent and meaningless) is of no interest to anyone. Unless to its author.
    3. Makhno
      Makhno 27 August 2013 21: 45 New
      -2
      Quote: Vasya
      The Russians are nonsense, but they will do everything for society - for posts related to intelligence.

      This textbook must have written Russian inteLectual.
      1. picnic
        picnic 27 August 2013 23: 24 New
        0
        Whoever wrote this, it was written during the Soviet era, in a Soviet institution. And then they didn’t keep fools there.
  31. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 27 August 2013 18: 44 New
    +3
    ___________________________
  32. varov14
    varov14 27 August 2013 18: 46 New
    +2
    "The Russian political elite as if cannot afford to rely on compatriots living in Ukraine. But why?" --- Yes, according to the same thing that our "elite" looks in the same direction as yours and teams from there- he gets it. I drove through the country today - she doesn't shine, beggar, I mean Russia.
    1. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 27 August 2013 19: 09 New
      -1
      Well, this, as they say in the Bulgakov’s master, is a citizen of a lie. in Russia they are building and are building, in our country in Ukraine they dream and they fall into the impossible projects.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. VadimSt
    VadimSt 27 August 2013 19: 00 New
    +1
    In the near future we will see what will give Ukraine the signing of the Association with the EU!
    Either tail and scales, or ears from a dead donkey! Although this is equivalent, for the ruling class only thinks about keeping its accounts abroad. All the rest will get low-paid slave labor, reaching retirement age on the day of death, if it does not come earlier, reducing social guarantees and the dictatorial regime of family and party clans. AMEN!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  35. Gecko
    Gecko 27 August 2013 19: 29 New
    +1
    After the legitimate question of Ukrainians, why didn’t we feel better from signing the Association with the EU. They will answer her that it is necessary to join the EU. Then join NATO. And the next question why the promises have not been fulfilled, they will be told they need to attack Russia together and take away its resources, and then happiness will come.
  36. Muadipus
    Muadipus 27 August 2013 19: 44 New
    +2
    - What is it ?! There were people like people and suddenly all at once became nerds!
    (c) "Brother-2"
  37. washi
    washi 27 August 2013 20: 04 New
    0
    I have a simple question. ON WHAT BASIS AS THE COAT OF ARMS OF UKRAINE HAS TAKEN THE RURIKOVICH SYMBOL (ATTACKING FALCON)?
    WHY RED PRINCIPAL COLOR CHANGED FOR BLUE?
    Nothing of its own. They want to constantly cling to the great. Gogol wrote that he was a Russian writer. Korolev, etc. did not know that they were Ukrainians. There is only one Ukrainian writer - Shevchenko. who hated Russia. For what merits was the city named after him? Probably for the same as K. Marx., Who also "loved" the Russians.
  38. bistrov.
    bistrov. 27 August 2013 22: 51 New
    +1
    "Independence Day" is not a holiday for me. I am in mourning this day. I usually get drunk on this day, although in general I try to drink alcohol as little as possible. And what a country it was! And so tragically ended. I constantly ask myself the question: What's the matter? Where were we looking then? Why did we not take to the streets then and killed all these Svidomo?
    1. VadimSt
      VadimSt 27 August 2013 22: 58 New
      +1
      Similarly! If they achieved independence, then universal - man and state, are now independent of each other!
    2. Nike
      Nike 27 August 2013 23: 05 New
      0
      It all started with fraud ...
    3. Barrel
      Barrel 27 August 2013 23: 20 New
      -2
      Why didn’t we take to the streets then and kill all these Svidomo?

      This is the whole problem of a totalitarian society: "No man, no problem." You do not want to hear about a point of view that is not similar to yours, while it is impossible for a person's opinion to always be correct. This is the essence of democracy, the rule of the people. But you do not want to participate in governing the state, your will has been suppressed, you cannot live without an iron hand that will govern you. This will has been extinguished for centuries. But Ukraine twice felt freedom (1648 and 1917) and did not want to return to the yoke.
      1. nnz226
        nnz226 28 August 2013 00: 18 New
        0
        Dove! In 1648, some territories may have something with a drink and smelled, but in 1654 in Pereyaslavl they proclaimed: "To the people of RUSSIA, pid Tsar Moskovsky!" Later, however, Vygovsky, who made his way to the hetmans, fought for independence, even near Konotop, with the help of the "allies" of the Crimean Tatars, he expelled the Russian army. (The boy even tried to celebrate this event) Then the Cossacks kicked Vygovsky out of the hetmanship, like a dermetso with a shovel, and he escaped to Warsaw, where he ended his life either on the block, or in a noose. And the Square had such a "blissful" period of history, which is called RUINA in textbooks. Then, having scored on the liberties and the Magdeburg Law, they crawled on all fours under the arm of Moscow. History was in the form of a tragedy, now, as the saying goes, in the form of a farce. Although RUINA is observed with the naked eye ...
        1. Barrel
          Barrel 28 August 2013 12: 10 New
          +1
          In 1654, according to documents, Ukrainian territories were part of Moscow as a protectorate (read on Wikipedia at your leisure). Khmelnitsky had no choice, for human resources and gunpowder were not endless, and Ukraine itself was in isolation. According to the documents, the people remained free. But not even a month had passed before Muscovy betrayed Khmelnitsky. According to the articles, after the lands of the Getmanshchyna entered Moscow, the tsar was to declare war on the Senate and not stop it until the victorious end. But it was not there. The king concludes a truce with the senate and divides the Ukrainian lands (1939 does not resemble?). And in the future, the kings began to unilaterally cut down the rights and freedoms of Ukrainians. Like that, and you say Mazepa is a traitor.
          And into the Ruin we were driven by the "daragie scattered", the Poles and the Turks. They divided the land of the Hetmanate among themselves. There were attempts to unite, remember Doroshenka's campaign in 1668, but where do we go to fight on 3 fronts.
  39. Makhno
    Makhno 27 August 2013 23: 10 New
    -1
    Guys, do not be lazy, and again thoughtfully re-read all the crap that you got here. The best European integrators of Ukraine in the EU than you still have to look!laughing
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 27 August 2013 23: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Makhno
      Guys, do not be lazy, and again thoughtfully re-read all the crap that you got here. The best European integrators of Ukraine in the EU than you still have to look!

      And what do you think Russia should do?
      1. Makhno
        Makhno 28 August 2013 12: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        And what do you think Russia should do?

        But somehow I do not care what she does, what she does not and whether she will do at all. And in your opinion, should Russia immediately bombard Ukraine? But didn’t it come to your mind that you can successfully cooperate economically and carry out trade operations between the two states without any alliances? Russia trades in its hydrocarbon raw materials without entering into alliances with Poland, Germany, etc. Russia successfully cooperates with NATO without concluding any alliance. Did you enter into an alliance with NATO to place an American military air base in Russia?
    2. Muadipus
      Muadipus 28 August 2013 01: 33 New
      -3
      Makhno UA Yesterday, 23:10

      Guys, do not be lazy, and again thoughtfully re-read all the crap that you got here. The best European integrators of Ukraine in the EU than you still have to look for! Laughing

      Yes, integrate wherever you want. But the GDP correctly hinted, you already decide on whose field you will graze and whose bosom you suck.

      Integrators are bad, while other former republics are developing and building relationships with their neighbors. You damn everything integrates. Although in truth, you just can’t decide where there will be more freebies. In the meantime, my office manager earns more than your 3 shop managers. They would think about their people. If in Russia the extruder driver earns from $ 1000 to $ 3000, then in Ukraine $ 150-250. Moreover, Ukrainian experts in this area are really superior to ours. Comrades go completely wrong. (or rather, you don’t go anywhere, stupidly bunch with seeds)

      Speaking of your avatar.
  40. nnz226
    nnz226 28 August 2013 00: 10 New
    +3
    After the referendum on December 1, 1991, a caricature of Balabas appeared in Komsomolskaya Pravda, a dash-and-dot border line with the inscriptions Russia, Ukraine was drawn. Buratino is sitting on the territory of Ukraine, on the territory of Russia Karabas Barabas and Duremar are sitting, and Karabas says, referring to the latter and pointing at Buratino: "And there we will throw the dice!" Sad humor, in the light of 22 years of independence ...
  41. R150
    R150 28 August 2013 00: 23 New
    0
    everything is as always, at first national hatred is kindled ...
    everything continues according to the old scheme ...
  42. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 28 August 2013 03: 15 New
    +1
    That hatred divided our peoples in earnest, the worse we live, the more Russia will be to blame. Patamushta, the generation of the 60s, betrayed his homeland in 1991. allowing to destroy a great country. And now the broken pot cannot be blinded back, we Ukrainians are very soft and kind, it is almost impossible to push us to the revolution. And so in all forums it’s clear that in Ukraine almost everything was always better than in Russia, don’t take it: climate, people, food, lard with a burner. fellow