Military Review

Rich groom and old rake for Ukraine

213
As long as Russia is having a serious discussion of its intensity on whether recession is present in the economy, or all the words about it are purely from evil, the discussion of the economic situation in Ukraine looks no less problematic. At the same time, both Russians and Ukrainians clearly understand “who is to blame?” In the difficulties encountered by financial systems, directing indirect views on domestic Cabinet of Ministers, but the answer to the question “what to do?” Has innumerable interpretations, and therefore with its resolution and it is very, very difficult.


Rich groom and old rake for Ukraine


In the case of Ukraine, several other difficulties are added, connected with the so-called multi-vector policy, which is followed by the Ukrainian authorities. What is this, God forgive me, multi-vector nature, readers are well aware: for a long time the Ukrainian leadership has been trying to catch its fish in the muddy water of splashing before the European Union and at the same time promises to Russia to consider integration proposals. Integration in both directions is of course beautiful, global and impressive. But only in modern realities with the ardent “friendship” that the East and the West profess (including the Ukrainian ones), such integration looks rather utopian.

The bidirectional desire expressed by the Ukrainian authorities to integrate is of course not entirely bargaining with interests, which under the conditions of victorious capitalism is not customary to criticize, but something similar to such bargaining. And therefore, in any case (if there are at least three parties to the trade), one of the parties will (at least, it will have such feelings) in a certain minus. A love triangle, and only ... I would like to hope, without an obtuse angle ...

In the meantime, such a very tangibly formed triangle is in the Ukrainian economy and politics, the Ukrainian economy itself, unfortunately, decided to go for another anti-record. It is connected with the fact that in about a year and a half, the country's foreign exchange reserves fell by more than a quarter. If at the beginning of 2012, these reserves amounted to 32 billion dollars, then according to the latest reports of the Ministry of Finance of Ukraine, gold and currency in the Ukrainian granaries amount to 23 billion "green". Such a rapid decline in foreign exchange reserves suggests that the authorities have to rummage in store to patch the resulting financial holes. With outright stagnation in the Ukrainian economy, it will not be easy to remove one's hand from gold exchange zashnik, but it is far from being bottomless.

Ukrainian economists, who are also divided into two opposing camps (some are in favor of integration with the EU, others see Ukraine exclusively in the Customs Union with the Russian Federation, Kazakhstan and Belarus), cite two main reasons for such a rapid fall in gold and foreign exchange reserves. The first say that Moscow is to blame for everything, at one time mercilessly raising gas prices for Ukrainian consumers, the second argue that the reason is “humanitarian aid” from the European Union, which was presented in the form of credits with impressive percentages. Incidentally, there are those in Ukraine who believe that Ukraine does not need to integrate with anyone either in the East or in the West, because Russia and the European Union are united in their final goal - to razderbanit Ukraine ... They say that Moscow and Brussels agreed economically trample down the “independence”, and therefore some are “gassed” by gas, others are “stripped” on loans. Such maxims are very much to the liking of a certain number of Ukrainian citizens, who believe that a purely external enemy is guilty of all turmoil, hindering the conduct of a "balanced" economic policy ...

In the meantime, the Ukrainian authorities are trying to decide what to choose: an association with the possibility of further rapprochement with the European Union, integration into the CU, or both, major experts in the field of “divide and rule” technology decided to intervene - good people from the United States States of America. The intervention is played purely on the sick points of the Ukrainian economic policy. The man who said that the United States was ready to help the Ukrainians overcome the economic difficulties that had arisen was the new American ambassador Jeffrey Payette.

Mr. Payette outlined his concern about Ukraine’s dependence on foreign energy supplies and promised that the American “partners” would certainly help Kiev and all Ukrainian citizens to realize aspirations of energy independence without exception. To this end, the ambassador urges Kiev to pay attention to the interest in developing shale gas in the country such companies as Chevron and Exxon Mobile. This will supposedly help to reduce the dependence on gas supplies from abroad (from which, we guessed it ...)

They want to bring the best American technology, know-how and American money to the Ukrainian energy sector. This will be very good for Ukrainians and will help Ukraine achieve its energy independence goal - Mr. Payette said with enthusiasm and a clear desire to leave an indelible impression of himself and American interest in developing Eastern European “democracy”.

Well, but for the Ukrainian authorities, whom Russia scared by an unexpected ban on the import of certain food products, and the European Union by saying that Ukraine may not be associated with it because of the prison term for former Prime Minister Tymoshenko, Payette’s proposal may turn out to be very even attractive. If Kiev can not figure out with whom he is on the way from among his closest neighbors, then it's time to pay attention to the overseas "groom" ... "Groom" and he himself is in debt by the very thing, but in his lexicon there is a set of words (democracy and American money, for example), which forces the national self-consciousness of rushing from the side to side of the Ukrainian political elites.

And while the Ukrainian Communists are trying to organize a collection of signatures in support of a possible referendum on Ukraine’s accession to the Customs Union, while Viktor Yanukovych continues to be tormented by doubts, while Moscow is forming new projectiles for the Ukrainian president to dispel his doubts, the United States is on its beaten path. Approximately the following way: remind Ukraine of the energy “slavery”, which will certainly endanger the entire Ukrainian nation, promise golden mountains and shale “rivers”, wait for the response of the Ukrainian authorities. And then - on the thumb: with the help of loans from large American businesses, to temporarily launch the Ukrainian gas production sector, which itself will be operated by the same business representatives, which loans issued. In the end, Chevron and Exxon Mobile are able to feed at the expense of the Ukrainian budget and Ukrainian resources, while also having interest payments on loans provided to Kiev. Ukraine's foreign exchange reserves will continue to thaw ...

The "groom" will buy a new "suit" and make a pen, the "bride" will tan by the window, remembering that she’s stepping on an old rake ...
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  1. Garrin
    Garrin 13 August 2013 07: 03 New
    28
    To this end, the ambassador urges Kiev to pay attention to the interest in the development of shale gas in the country by such companies as Chevron and Exxon Mobile. This supposedly helps to nullify the dependence on gas supplies from abroad (exactly where, we guessed ...)

    I saw a photo story about the consequences of this mining in Donbass. This is called destroying my own land with my own hands. The descendants will not understand and will not forgive
    1. escapes
      escapes 13 August 2013 08: 42 New
      26
      Главное мос...ям "нагадить"(как они считают),ради такого и собственной земли нежалко))))))))))
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 20 New
        13
        Quote: fugas
        Главное мос...ям "нагадить"(как они считают),ради такого и собственной земли нежалко))))

        I’m sleeping my hut, if only I would pinch Putin’s eyes laughing
        This chatter of the American ambassador for whom? Rather, for those who want to quickly sign a piece of paper with the EU. Don’t be afraid of the type, we will help you if Russia starts to tighten the screws.
        1. Natalia
          Natalia 13 August 2013 10: 12 New
          10
          It's just that the reality is that you have to lie completely under someone ... and the only question is who, who is prettier. But it's time to choose otherwise will be as in the picture... and the whole issue will be decided by itself.

          PS Everything is simple here if you choose Russia, then yes, Putin will steer mainly (but with the fraternal people on one side of the barricades). If you choose the EU, (or rather the USA) you will be homosexual (but you will hang out beautifully) lol
          Then someone who likes it more ... bully
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 14 August 2013 01: 39 New
            -2
            Quote: Natalia
            If you choose the EU, (or rather the USA) you will be homosexual (but you will hang out beautifully)

            And what's the difference, a stuck-in rooster or a glamorous gay, anyway will be taken away by nowhere. It’s not the name, but the essence, and the point is that if the gay people hang out, they will be given to them.
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 13 August 2013 11: 17 New
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          I’m sleeping my hut, if only I would pinch Putin’s eyes

          Attempt No. 1 (the result of shale gas production, Images from the film "Gazland": burning tap water)
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 13 August 2013 20: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: Tersky
            Attempt No. 1 (the result of shale gas production, Images from the film "Gazland": burning tap water)

            Here you can see from 1,42
        3. fedorovith
          fedorovith 18 August 2013 18: 11 New
          0
          Yes, as soon as possible, they would be determined, otherwise they are dragged by their lack of solidity, they go so far forward in the geyropu, this chatter already bothers.
    2. tarks
      tarks 13 August 2013 09: 17 New
      11
      In such a scenario there will be no descendants.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 42 New
        +5
        Quote: tarks
        In such a scenario there will be no descendants.
        Будут. Гермафродиты с перепонками на лапах и в противогазах на голове. Что-то типа снорков из "Сталкера",только плавающие wassat
    3. eplewke
      eplewke 13 August 2013 11: 09 New
      +2
      Oh Ukraine! in half, you wouldn’t be divided with such a policy ... or rather, with its sound lack ... request
      1. Joker
        Joker 13 August 2013 20: 02 New
        +1
        How have they already tortured with Ento Ukraine, well, let them do what they want, they have their own country and where they decide to go, the people are silent, it means they are satisfied. We don’t understand where our climb is, cretinism with these candies, normal candies from them, many have to learn, this gas war has already gotten. Would put a condition once again, with us or with the EU, the decision before 2014 and everyone, they will sit and think and decide for themselves where they need to, but no, we will suffer nonsense, increase their taxes on cars, well, at the same time, the powerful people, as it was, didn’t care, and I’m sure on 100% that all these measures are not related to uniting the fraternal peoples, but also to tidy up Ukraine for the greedy bureaucrats, there is also something sub-affiliate. They want to go with SS marches, they like it, so let them go, this is a different country and it’s wrong to go to them, I think so, how do we get better than the US?
    4. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 12: 13 New
      +2
      no, not seen.
      what you saw is exploration of a conventional, not shale, field.
      Of course, this does not negate the fact that shale is bad for the ecology of Donbass.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 44 New
        0
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        what you saw is exploration of a conventional, not shale, field.
        Of course, this does not negate the fact that shale is bad for the ecology of Donbass.
        If we take into account that part of the gas (and all the rubbish after hydraulic fracturing) will go along the path of least resistance, that is, into the mines, then THERE have not been seen anywhere else. Yes, and somehow it does not pull to see ... what
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 08 New
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          that is - to the mines

          In fairness ... where I plan to mine shales - there are no mines))
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 13 August 2013 13: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: zmey_gadukin
            In fairness ... where I plan to mine shales - there are no mines))
            Ну если уж ради справедливости, то вся донецкая область не слишком велика, а сланцевая шахта дает газ всего несколько лет, потом ее надо переносить. А куда? Особенно, если под вопли типа "уже столько денег вложено, оборудование закуплено..."
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 42 New
              0
              where the mines did not find gas beds.
              and I won’t drill in those places. Also because of the mines. Much worse is another. What drills will be sparked.
      2. Rider
        Rider 13 August 2013 13: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: zmey_gadukin
        no, not seen.
        what you saw is exploration of a conventional, not shale, field.


        and you look ATTENTIVELY.

        familiarization information:
        http://oko-planet.su/politik/politiklist/194146-skaz-o-tom-kak-shell-na-ukraine-
        slancevyy-gaz-dobyval.html


        http://oko-planet.su/infonfoko/174891-shokiruyuschie-foto-s-pervyh-skvazhin-doby
        chi-slancevogo-gaza-v-ukraine-foto.html
    5. APASUS
      APASUS 13 August 2013 20: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Garrin
      I saw a photo story about the consequences of this mining in Donbass. This is called destroying my own land with my own hands. The descendants will not understand and will not forgive


      Here are some of the most interesting
  2. Majordok
    Majordok 13 August 2013 07: 28 New
    +9
    Well, after all, for the Ukrainian authorities, whom Russia frightened with an unexpected ban on the import of certain food products, the European Union does not need Ukrainian food products at all! All sane residents of Ukraine for integration with Russia!
    1. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 13 August 2013 09: 05 New
      16
      All sane people were in favor of preserving the USSR - and no one in the Government even deigned to take into account the results of the referendum!
      1. Majordok
        Majordok 13 August 2013 16: 29 New
        +1
        As the saying goes: Thanks to Grandfather for the Victory, thanks to my father, what about ... whether the country, I was shallow at that time, and most of the people who are now the most active. I know their opinion, the week I came from Ukraine.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 21 New
      11
      Quote: MajorDok
      ! All sane residents of Ukraine for integration with Russia!

      There is such a Kars on the site, tell him that laughing
      1. experienced
        experienced 13 August 2013 09: 28 New
        11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        There is such a Kars on the site, tell him that

        Oh, it will begin now laughing , но промолчать не могу. Сань, Андрей (Kars) патриот своей страны, как и ты патриот России. Какое право, мы россияне имеем лезть в политику другого суверенного государства? Если бы Андрей навязчиво лез в дела России то для меня бы он был "нерукопожатным", а то что он как гражданин своей страны излагает свои мысли по ее развитию, то за это ему респект и уважуха. За его знания по бронетехнике двойное УВАЖЕНИЕ hi
        1. tarks
          tarks 13 August 2013 10: 05 New
          +1
          Here you have more patriots of their country:
          Supporters of the SS Division "Galicia" are already preparing to cross the Dnieper

          http://topwar.ru/31807-storonniki-divizii-ss-galichina-uzhe-gotovyatsya-pereyti-
          dnepr-esche-odin-russkoyazychnyy-gorod-ukrainy-pal.html # comment-id-1401700
          1. experienced
            experienced 13 August 2013 10: 45 New
            13
            Quote: tarks
            Here you have the patriots of their country: Supporters of the SS Division "Galicia" are already preparing

            А давайте и других "патриотов" посмотрим
            Это наши российские, или "у соседа соломинку смотрим..." Давайте сначала со своими "бревнами" разберемся
            1. tarks
              tarks 13 August 2013 10: 47 New
              11
              We have those in power. And you?
              And by the way, where does the log and the straw go? I am exclusively about my own, local.
              1. experienced
                experienced 13 August 2013 10: 58 New
                0
                Quote: tarks
                We have those in power. And you?

                У нас Рогозин примерно так "отличился" в свое время. Это власть?
                1. tarks
                  tarks 13 August 2013 11: 10 New
                  +3
                  а у нас "свобода" в раде.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 16: 21 New
                    +1
                    Quote: tarks
                    а у нас "свобода" в раде.

                    Не то слово,у вас там не только "свобода" у вас там полная свобода,бей не хочу laughing
                2. Natalia
                  Natalia 13 August 2013 12: 39 New
                  +9
                  А давайте и других "патриотов" посмотрим
                  Это наши российские, или "у соседа соломинку смотрим..." Давайте сначала со своими "бревнами" разберемся

                  Quote: seasoned
                  У нас Рогозин примерно так "отличился" в свое время. Это власть?

                  Why did you suddenly decide to engage in self-flagellation, we have forbidden fascist symbols, and if you scatter us in the streets in Voskresensk, you will definitely face intimate hair removal and a sharp softening of the chair ... and believe me it is.
                  1. Garrin
                    Garrin 13 August 2013 12: 46 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Natalia
                    and if you scatter on the street, say, in Voskresensk, then you definitely face intimate hair removal and a sharp softening of the stool ... and believe me it is.

                    Bravo, Natalia !!! good love
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                3. wax
                  wax 13 August 2013 18: 23 New
                  +1
                  Mitterrand in his youth was also different.
              2. Ribwort
                Ribwort 13 August 2013 11: 17 New
                +6
                Quote: tarks
                We have those in power. And you?

                With us, these are only gathered by the crowd. We would try to throw a ridge alone somewhere in a crowded place - would they lie with a memory? However, the dominance of Russia by immigrants from countries of very Central Asia, the associated increase in crime and so on, helps these characters to find supporters or sympathizers in their ranks. Here, after all, the main thing to understand: these have ideology, and the influx of migrants is the result of foreign policy, is decided by one or two decrees (if there is interest and political will) and no more ...
        2. biglow
          biglow 13 August 2013 11: 33 New
          +9
          Quote: seasoned
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          There is such a Kars on the site, tell him that

          Oh, it will begin now laughing but I can’t keep silent. Sanya, Andrey (Kars) is a patriot of his country, just as you are a patriot of Russia. What right do we Russians have to get into the politics of another sovereign state? hi

          You confuse a fragment of Russia with real states with a century of history. Ukraine in its present form has no past or future. This is obvious to all even super patriots, only they are afraid to admit it to themselves ... Southeastern Ukraine is the historical part of Russia and it must be returned, and let the zapadents do what they want. ..
        3. Kars
          Kars 13 August 2013 11: 33 New
          +3
          Quote: seasoned
          There is such a Kars on the site, tell him that

          Quote: seasoned
          Oh, it will begin now

          Do not start))) laziness and no sense.

          So offhand - Onishchenko and Roshen --- these are the methods of coercion against TS. And what else can you write after that? Don’t Russia be so big Roshen and Poroshenko would have rolled such a lawsuit about defamation, damage to business reputation, etc. But no, comes to beg.

          Once again the Russian Federation will repeat it is not the USSR, and now capitalism.
          1. svp67
            svp67 13 August 2013 11: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            So offhand - Onishchenko and Roshen --- here they are methods of coercion to the vehicle.
            Yes, give up. Candy is not the most important export product of Ukraine to Russia, so there is something else ...
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 August 2013 11: 45 New
              +2
              Quote: svp67
              Yes, give up. Candy is not the main export product of Ukraine to Russia, so there is something else.

              Why should I throw it? The main thing is not the main one, but a fact on my face. Besides Onishchenko, no one found chainsaws in sweets. And no one bothered to confirm their presentation. And if export is allowed again next week, it will be a laughing stock.
              So, deal with the Russian Federation after that. But there is no particular choice, unfortunately. And how can you not understand the attempts to pursue a multi-vector policy after this?
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 13 August 2013 19: 18 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                In addition to Onishchenko, no one found gasoline in sweets. Yes, and no one bothered to confirm their presentation.

                That's the more there will be multi-vector attempts, the more often and steeper will be presented without documentary evidence
                1. Kars
                  Kars 13 August 2013 21: 07 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  That's the more there will be multi-vector attempts, the more often and steeper will be presented without documentary evidence

                  And where is the guarantee that when it becomes one-vector, and there are no longer any choice paths, scammers will not start at all in black?
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 13 August 2013 21: 59 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Kars
                    there will be no more ways to choose, will kidalovo not begin at all in black?

                    If you still pull it, it will be simply necessary to throw, so that others would not negative And if we are together, then what's the point of throwing ourselves? There are enough suckers in the world bully
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 August 2013 22: 18 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      If you still pull it, it will be simply necessary to throw, so that others would not

                      Maybe that's why you need faster in the EU?
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      And if we are together, then what's the point of throwing ourselves?

                      Under their capitalism does not happen. Still say that in the general election there will be a chance to defeat the Ukrainian presidency))))
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      There are enough suckers in the world

                      Yeah, that's just throwing easier addict and that closer.
                      1. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 22: 52 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Maybe that's why you need faster in the EU?

                        Zhovto - Black in ... wassat and a drum on the neck
                        Quote: Kars
                        Whom is this your own? Under capitalism, there are none.

                        The classic phrase - He's a son of a bitch BUT! this is our son of a bitch good Translated to the common -This is our oligarch wassat
                        Quote: Kars
                        .More say that in general elections there will be a chance to defeat the Ukrainian as president))))

                        In our country both countries are made up of whom only can be done. what
                        Quote: Kars
                        Yeah, that's just throwing easier addict and that closer.

                        Well, if we are together then Romania and Turkey will automatically become neighbors ..... bully
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 August 2013 22: 59 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Zhovto - Black in ... and a drum on the neck

                        Thank you for your wishes.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        The classic phrase - He's a son of a bitch BUT! this is our son of a bitch Translated into the commonly understood -This is our oligarch

                        The Middle East oligarch is not a comrade of the Hoh - Lacock oligarch. And he will not become ours / yours.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        In our country both countries are made up of whom only can be done.

                        For all that, percentages are significant.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Well, if we are together then Romania and Turkey will automatically become neighbors.

                        This is a naive proposition, even raider groups work inside the Russian Federation, and here the luck itself will be ordered near Moscow.
                      3. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 23: 02 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        In our country both countries are made up of whom only can be done.

                        Quote: Kars
                        For all that, percentages are significant.

                        Quote: Kars
                        This is a naive proposition, even raider groups work inside the Russian Federation, and here the luck itself will be ordered near Moscow.

                        in the elderberry garden and in Kiev the uncle what I didn’t understand a damn thing request
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 13 August 2013 23: 06 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        I didn’t understand a damn thing


                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        What does nationality have to do with it

                        I want to look at the President of the Russian Federation Buryats, or Tatarstan.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        This is a naive proposition, even inside the Russian Federation raider groups work, and here the fart will order near Moscow

                        that is incomprehensible ---- oligarchs who have the best connections in Moscow will have too great advantages.
                      5. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 23: 11 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        I want to look at the President of the Russian Federation Buryats, or Tatarstan.

                        Is the Minister of Defense -Twin a glitch? with good chances to go to the polls if he can bring the army at least in relative order?
                        Quote: Kars
                        that is incomprehensible ---- oligarchs who have the best connections in Moscow will have too great advantages.

                        Rynoks old man and nothing personal wassat Or do you still believe in fair competition? fool bully
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 13 August 2013 23: 30 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Is the Minister of Defense -Twin a glitch?

                        The Minister of Defense is not an elected figure, but an appointed one.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        with good chances to go to the polls if he can bring the army at least in relative order?

                        with null chances. surely even in my thoughts this does not hold.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Rynoks old man and nothing personal Or do you still believe in fair competition?

                        So why then do we need it? With your honest competition, they’ll undress so that they won’t show much. But you won’t live much better from this.
                      7. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 23: 34 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars

                        So why then do we need it?

                        I wrote to you below wink
                        Quote: Kars
                        with null chances. surely even in my thoughts this does not hold.

                        Quote: Kars
                        the figure is not elected, but appointed.

                        laughing bully soldier Do you understand?
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 13 August 2013 23: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Do you understand?

                        Of course, I understood that you gave an unsuccessful example. It’s ridiculous - someone doubts Putin’s 4 term.
                      9. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 23: 59 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        someone doubts Putin’s 4 term.

                        Я hi But in the second premiere not a minute bully
          2. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 13 August 2013 23: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            Thank you for your wishes.

            ... and tailwind in the same flag fellow
  • MREDBEST
    MREDBEST 13 August 2013 19: 23 New
    +2
    Bro, you must understand that these are forced measures, these are already extreme steps :( Enter the position of Russia yourself and tell me how to be? How should we be when the brotherly people of America have already eaten the brain?
  • svp67
    svp67 13 August 2013 22: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Kars
    Why should I give up? The main thing is not the main one, but a fact on the face.


    Well, well maybe you are right, and then that:
    Warsaw Poland asks Ukraine to abandon the ban on the import of coke into the country, saying that such a decision could be contrary to the international obligations of the Ukrainian authorities and harm Polish-Ukrainian economic cooperation.
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 August 2013 23: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Well, well maybe you are right, and then that:

      Well, Poland asks, but does not prohibit the import of sweets, or sunflower oil. And there the lawyers have to rabiratsa. All the same, Ukraine has entered the WTO. Although, it will probably be necessary for the head of our office to look for radionuclides in Polish coke.
      Although it somehow amazes me, is it really that Polish coke with delivery and customs clearance is cheaper than ours? Maybe someone is snickering with us? But I have not heard about the over-salaries of Zaporizhkoksakhim workers.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 13 August 2013 11: 54 New
    +6
    Quote: svp67
    Yes, give up. Candy is not the most important export product of Ukraine to Russia, so there is something else ...

    Of course not. The economic problems of Ukraine are much more serious.

    According to the State Statistics Service, in the first quarter of 2013 of the year, GDP fell by 1,3%, industrial production - by 5%. In 2012, export of metal-roll fell by 7%, its domestic consumption decreased by 15%. Total exports of ferrous metals in 2012 year decreased compared to the previous year by 17%. In January-May, 2013 of the year compared to the same period of 2012 of the year - by another 12,5%.
    Stakhanov Ferroalloy Plant for January-June 2013 of the year reduced production by 45,2% compared to the same period of 2012 of the year. Its load is 25,5% of the design capacity. Over the 2012 year, the reduction in production was 19%. In January-June 2013, the production of steel pipes in Ukraine decreased by 24% compared to the same period of 2012.
    At the same time, Ukrainian metallurgical enterprises increased imports of iron ore by 32% in six months (for 2012 a year - by 72,3%). From 1 August 2013, Ukraine removes restrictions on the import of certain categories of steel pipes, which will force the national pipe manufacturers out of the national market, in addition to the fact that in January-June 2013, the production of steel pipes has already decreased by 24% compared to the same 2012 period of the year.


    In the first half of this year, car production in the country decreased by 54,2%, only ZAZ reduced the production of passenger cars by 52%, the production of buses by 72%. The decrease in production at the enterprise in 2012 amounted to 30%.
    In total, over the past five years, car production in Ukraine decreased by 6 times, and of the 36 thousand people employed in this industry, half remained. According to the results of the first four months of this year, oil and gas refineries reduced the production of gasoline by 2,1 times, diesel fuel by 1,8 times, fuel oil - by 2,5 times.


    And all this happens against the background of an increase in the country's import dependence.
  • Corneli
    Corneli 13 August 2013 14: 02 New
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Yes, give up. Candy is not the most important export product of Ukraine to Russia, so there is something else ...

    Not the most, but exclusive and well-sold:
    "Кондитерская корпорация «Рошен» — один из крупнейших мировых производителей кондитерских изделий. По состоянию на 2012 год занимает 18 место в рейтинге Candy Industry Top 100. По другим источникам, занимает 15 место по значимости среди кондитерских компаний мира...Оборот: 9,6 млрд грн (около 1,2 млрд. долларов, 2012 год). Число сотрудников - более 10 тыс. человек...)
    And claims of Mr. Onishchenko, excuse me out of the blue, Kazakhstan and Belarus did similar checks and didn’t find anything request
  • Flooding
    Flooding 13 August 2013 11: 50 New
    +9
    Quote: Kars
    if the Russian Federation hadn’t been so big, Roshen and Poroshenko would have brought such a lawsuit about defamation, damage to business reputation, etc. But no, you have to beg.

    If Moldova weren’t so small, all the neighbors would come to us crawling with pleas for help. But why these empty dreams? Behind the state is history; behind history is the deeds of ancestors. It's me that everyone has what they deserve.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 50 New
      +7
      Quote: Flood
      Behind the state is history; behind history is the deeds of ancestors. It's me that everyone has what they deserve.

      good
      А красивое модное слово "многовекторность" чаще всего означает банальную проституцию
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: Misantrop
        А красивое модное слово "многовекторность"

        with multi-vector, I recall that there were no wars.
        Someone L. Kuchma knew how to solve issues. Decide on the quiet. And without scandals. And the gas was not expensive.
      2. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 13 August 2013 22: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Misantrop
        А красивое модное слово "многовекторность" чаще всего означает банальную проституцию

        But how tolerant repeat lol
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 47 New
    +7
    Quote: seasoned
    Andrey (Kars) is a patriot of his country, just like you are a patriot of Russia.
    The trouble is that he is a patriot of the stub that remained of his country. He was famously robbed, but he still couldn’t figure it out. HIS country occupied a fifth of the planet ...
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 August 2013 12: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Misantrop
      HIS country occupied a fifth of the planet ...

      ITS no longer. About robbed --- well, you exaggerate. I remember how we lived under the USSR, I remember how we lived in the 90s, and I live now. The USSR is clearly losing. Unless, of course, reject claims on the citizen of the Superpower.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 16: 25 New
        +4
        Quote: Kars
        ITS no more
        And why? No options?
        Quote: Kars
        I remember how we lived under the USSR, I remember how we lived in the 90s, and I live now. The USSR clearly loses

        From the table of Akhmetov and Poroshenko, the stub fell, here happiness fell ... lol
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 August 2013 21: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          And why? No options?

          There are no options. What they want to build is not the USSR,
          Quote: Misantrop
          A stub fell from the table of Akhmetov and Poroshenko, and here happiness fell.

          And who is now easier? Someone is falling from the table of Putin and his friends, or do you think Putin is leading into communism? And a bright future?
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 13 August 2013 16: 35 New
      0
      Quite a typical reaction of a number of small-town patriots who will not be bothered in any way that they were simply thrown into a remote village from a superpower. At the same time, for some reason they willingly stick out in the Russian information space. It is supplemented by typical Ukrainian fairy tales about how everything is bad in Russia, although in industrial production Russia has long blocked Ukraine not by 3-5 times in proportion to the population, but by orders of magnitude, as well as birth rates.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 13 August 2013 13: 25 New
    +6
    Ukrainians and Russians are one people. Therefore, they cannot have two states. Therefore, a Ukrainian cannot be a patriot of an independent Ukraine.
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 August 2013 16: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: alicante11
      Ukrainians and Russians are one people

      It is strange and why then there is a long time ago, and during the USSR there was a division into ho - chlov and kat - chaps, and even at the national level.
      Quote: alicante11
      Therefore, a Ukrainian cannot be a patriot of an independent Ukraine.

      And here I am for example.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 16: 27 New
        +9
        Quote: Kars
        there is quite a long time ago, and during the USSR there was a division into ho - chlov and ka - tsap
        I will say more, the division into men and women was also. Urgently to Europe, there is already done away with this relic laughing
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 August 2013 21: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          I will say more, the division into men and women was also. Urgently to Europe, there is already done away with this relic

          In general, it looks like you are poorly versed in the topic. The separation remains. They just mate as they want, in any sequences.
      2. alicante11
        alicante11 14 August 2013 02: 06 New
        +1
        It is strange and why then there is a long time ago, and during the USSR there was a division into ho - chlov and kat - chaps, and even at the national level.


        And this is the same as the Russians living in the Ulchi and Nanai districts of the Khabarovsk Territory. They are also called Ulchi and Nanai. But in fact - Russian, albeit with narrow eyes.

        And here I am for example.


        Значит вы предатель своей большой Родины. Поскольку содействуете ее ослаблению, вернее, в данный момент, противодействуете ее усилению. Что в условиях противостояния с Западом чревато полным уничтожением как "ов", так и ", я нацистская морда,ов".
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 14 August 2013 07: 57 New
          -1
          Прикольно "к а ц а п о в" переиначили :). Только для кавычек можно было бы оставить.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 17: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      1.This is part of Russia temporarily out of control!

      inciting ethnic hatred?
      What is the point of the site rules? angry
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 14 August 2013 06: 12 New
        0
        This is not incitement, it is true.
  • Captain Vrungel
    Captain Vrungel 13 August 2013 07: 32 New
    +5
    Россия внимательно наблюдает, как заокеанский дядя собирается кромсать Украину и подло подталкивает не умную власть Украины во главе с алчным и недалеким Януковичем отвернуться от России. Не секрет, Россия начала полномасштабную экономическую войну с Украиной. Конфетки просто на поверхности. Война началасьв бюрократических кабинетах. Практически парализованы все поставки в Россию надуманными бюрократическими заковырками типа "к этой справке приложи ещё такую справку". И грузы стоят. Черт с ним с металлом, а скоропортяшиеся. Кого наказали параллельно с Украиной? Народ России. Перебьетесь и без витаминов. Китайские есть. Путин пытается подмять под себя Украину и раздавить на правах старшего брата при безотцовшине. Нельзя выпячиватьсебя над кем то и диктовать. Янукович не вечен, да и Путин. Придут нормальные и восстановят историческую справедливость единой семьи братских народов.
    1. Alexander-Tomsk
      Alexander-Tomsk 13 August 2013 08: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      Normal will come and restore the historical justice of the united family of fraternal peoples.


      Already restored by carrot and stick. For supporters of unity - a carrot in the face of the Customs Union and other things, for opponents - a whip in the face of economic and political sanctions. So, everything will be decided until 2020. I think (the maximum period).
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 12: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander-Tomsk
        Already restored by carrot and stick.

        What is it like? Force to be a brother or buy? Do you even think about what you write. And if the carrot and stick, then the words: friendship, Brother, love is not from here.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 53 New
          +5
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          And if the carrot and stick, then the words: friendship, Brother, love is not from here.

          And for lasciviousness has always been exclusively verbally criticized in families?
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 13: 07 New
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            And for lasciviousness has always been exclusively verbally criticized in families?

            Are you for Family, Rod now asking, or for legalized prostitution? In the first case, there can be no lasciviousness, in the second it is inevitable in one form or another. But this is not Family.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 13 August 2013 16: 29 New
              +2
              Quote: gladiatorakz
              In the first case, there can be no lechery
              Oh, and where did they come from, propagated by budding? belay
              Prostitution is a profession, and lasciviousness is a state of mind or the costs of education ... request
              1. gladiatorakz
                gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 20: 28 New
                0
                Quote: Misantrop
                Prostitution is a profession, and lasciviousness is a state of mind or the costs of education ..

                There’s even nothing to discuss, it’s no side to the Family. These are different lifestyles. Or rather, it is a comparison of the way of Life and the way of being.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 13 August 2013 16: 30 New
          +2
          Suppose there is only one carrot, then the Ukrainian oligarchs will willingly drive anything in the Russian Federation, but I'm sorry for the political union.
          It is within the BRICS framework that one can be friends on the principle of non-interference in internal affairs, and Little Russia, this is historical Russia, and separatism should be crushed.
    2. Vrungel78
      Vrungel78 13 August 2013 09: 31 New
      +1
      Hello, namesake. I about your insult that Russia does not buy wonderful Ukrainian sweets. There are several answers:
      1. And his shit is enough.
      2. Would you put this candy in the mouth of your child, knowing its composition?
      3. We have enough vitamins from Belarus.
      BUT. I am strongly against such a way to embroil our peoples.
      1. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 13 August 2013 12: 47 New
        +2
        The namesake, hello. The points.
        1.- И у нас дерьма достаточно, но "Рошен" далеко не . Жаль нет возможности показать, что "Сало в шоколаде" это высококачественные, вкуснейшие конфеты, как и остальные рошеновские.
        2.- To our child we give only Roshenovskie natural candies without GMI and chemical additives. And I advise you. No worse than Swiss chocolate. This is not advertising, this is friendly advice.
        3.-I’m not sure that Belarus has the strength to provide vegetables and fruits to the European part, not to mention Siberia and the North.
        4.-I support you on point 4 completely. I am sure that the children with pleasure ate our peaches, and our pine nuts are silky.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 13 August 2013 13: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          We give our child only Roshenov’s natural candies without GMI and chemical additives. And I advise you. No worse than Swiss chocolate. This is not advertising, this is friendly advice.

          How shoud I understand this? We also buy Roshen, but this does not mean that they are NATURAL and without chemical additives. Packaging, design and taste indicators benefit compared to many CIS manufacturers, BUT the same confectionery fats (read palm oil), cocoa butter substitute (not in all products, of course), flavors identical to natural ones.
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 13 August 2013 18: 21 New
          +1
          Just for a good mood
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 13 August 2013 11: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Captain Vrungel
      Russia is carefully observing how an overseas uncle is about to shred Ukraine and vilely pushes the not smart power of Ukraine, led by the greedy and near-minded Yanukovych, to turn his back on Russia.



      Ah, what a bad Russia, and even vile.
      С украинской власти взятки гладки, она ведь "не умная".
      And fools in Russia have always been sorry ...
    4. alicante11
      alicante11 13 August 2013 13: 45 New
      +2
      Putin is trying to crush Ukraine under him and crush him as an elder brother under fatherlessness. You can’t stick yourself out over someone and dictate.


      There are two points. First, GDP is capitalist. And his oligarchs need objects to rob. Sorry, this is called business development. Such capitalistic competition is normal.

      The second - sorry, but how much can you? Gas at a fraternal price, and as for independence issues, they are not brothers at all. Here the people of Ukraine need to be determined. Either they are part of Russia and then they will be robbed as Russians, or they are independent and then they will rob you as foreigners :).
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 13 August 2013 16: 39 New
        +2
        Capitalism in Russia has not grown. Nothing is going to privatize the GDP, the public sector is everywhere.
        И да, любое государство "грабит" население, вот только я вижу, как это "награбленное" в России идет в том числе на пользу обществу, а не только в карманы олигархов. 90-ые кончились, даже если еще не сидят все "эффективные менеджеры", то делиться им приходится.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 14 August 2013 07: 16 New
          -1
          You know, I would be with both hands for what you say. If that were so.
          Now let's point by point.

          Capitalism in Russia has not grown.


          Это в принципе верно, только надо указать, что наш "капитализм" после периода первоначального накопления капиталов сразу же без нормального капитализма шагнул в олигархический монополистический капитализм.

          Nothing is going to privatize the GDP, the public sector is everywhere.


          I will be very happy if they do not privatize anything. Although, frankly, the point is not in privatization itself. And in the use of funds that are obtained from privatization. If these funds went again to the development of new state enterprises, which would then be sold at a good price to private owners, then this would be very good. Since the state has much greater opportunities for the development of industry and agriculture than private traders. And each enterprise is taxes and jobs. The problem is that what is not created by the Russian state, but inherited from the USSR, is privatized, and money is being consumed or stolen.
          At the expense of the public sector. And what do oligarchs own in our country? All large profitable enterprises are in the hands of the oligarchs. There is a certain sector of state corporations. Rather, an OJSC with a decisive participation of the state. But, apart from Russian Railways and Gazprom, it’s difficult to talk about their effectiveness. Take for example the same Rusnano. And so the whole mining and processing complex is in the hands of the oligarchs.

          И да, любое государство "грабит" население, вот только я вижу, как это "награбленное" в России идет в том числе на пользу обществу, а не только в карманы олигархов.


          I do not mean the robbery of the state itself. The state does not rob, it collects taxes. Which, yes, can be predatory and ineffective as in the 90's, or now with an increase in payments to the FIU, which still remains unprofitable. I mean the robbery of oligarchs close to the state and the arbitrariness and theft of officials. The practice of raider seizures of a business is no secret to anyone. I will give only those examples that I personally encountered.
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 14 August 2013 07: 17 New
          -1
          Рейдерский захват ЗАО "Артель старателей Амур" со стороны НК-Альянс. С привлечением прокуратуры и природоохранных органов.
          Рейдерский захват имущества и авиационного парка с банкротством ОАО Дальавиа. Сначала была проведена приватизация ФГУП Дальавиа во время которой были отторгнуты недавно возведенное здание аэропорта и заправочная инфраструктура. Опять же в пользу НК-Альянс. Затем с привлечением прокуратуры, были заведены уголовные дела на руководство Дальавиа за незаконные действия с лизинговыми самолетами. Один из заместителей генерального директора даже был арестован. В результате произошла смена руководства на московских "специалистов". Которые за один год превратили прибыльную АК в убыточную. Но даже эти меры не смогли помочь быстро решить проблему. Поэтому формальным поводом для банкротства стал отказ ОАО Далькомбанк от продления гарантий на находящиеся в лизинге самолеты не смотря даже на давление со стороны губернатора. В итоге банкротство произведено при кредиторской задолженности около 1,4млрд рублей и дебеторской 0,9млрд рублей. Сравните с задолженностями других а/к банкротов. По результатам банкротства а/к было зафиксировано 3 случая самоубийства ее сотрудников.
          Raider takeover of OJSC Dalkombank. From the side of MTS Bank. During the bankruptcy procedure of OJSC Dalavia, for the refusal to support the a / c by the governor of Khabarovsk Kare, an order was made secretly to withdraw funds from regional and municipal enterprises from OJSC Dalkombank, which led to a panic and avalanche-like increase in the withdrawal of funds by other depositors and holders. For about a week, the bank withstood this avalanche. According to unofficial information due to a large loan. However, then this debt fell into the hands of MTS Bank, which, using it, took over the OJSC Dalkombank.

          90-ые кончились, даже если еще не сидят все "эффективные менеджеры", то делиться им приходится.


          Yes, the 90s are over. But, unfortunately, what is happening now is somewhat worse than 90's. I didn’t think that I would ever say so. But the fact remains. It was just that in the 90's there were chances that a weak state could be thrown off with the help of a revolution. And now there is no such hope, the state has created a very powerful vertical of power. In principle, in this form, the state, of course, is able to exist for a long time. But under external pressure, which is carried out from the West, which has significantly superior resources, the state can survive only if all resources are mobilized, as Stalin did in the USSR. The Russian Federation is not capable of this, since a significant part of the resources is in the hands of the oligarchs. The result can only be a defeat. What the Napoleonic Wars, the Crimean War, the First World War showed very well. Playing according to the rules of the Nuggest Saxons (building capitalist relations) and yielding to them in resources. And Napoleonic France and the Russian Empire and the German Empire were defeated.
  • domokl
    domokl 13 August 2013 07: 41 New
    11
    The closer the decision time for Ukraine, the more vultures flock to the future corpse. And you need to decide for anyone. Either to the left, to the EU democracy (albeit an outcast, no one), or to the right, to the TS. But also with certain conditions.
  • Wynd
    Wynd 13 August 2013 07: 45 New
    19
    Я вот, хоть убейте, впитал с молоком матери, что украинцы, белорусы, русские - один народ, волею одноклеточных политиканов, разделенный на 3 "независимых" государства. В уме не укладывается - Киев (на ум сразу приходит Киевская Русь), а государство - Украина.
  • Majordok
    Majordok 13 August 2013 08: 02 New
    +9
    In the military field of the Austrian-Russian-Polish-Ruthenian phrasebook from 1888, the words Ukrainian-language is called Ruthenian, at that time there was no Ukrainian nationality yet!
  • a52333
    a52333 13 August 2013 08: 20 New
    +3
    ??? Rich bridegroom ??? and old rake for Ukraine
    here, well, how to disagree with Einstein:
    “Two things are really endless: the universe and human stupidity. However, I'm not sure about the universe. ”
    Этот "богатый жених" пиджачёк на смотрины в прокате брал, за "свадьбу" родителям невесты платить?
  • gura
    gura 13 August 2013 08: 32 New
    -30
    Из Минска. Ничем хорошим для России "война" с Украиной не кончится. Эти газово-конфетные войны просто будут отталкивать и отталкивать Украину все дальше от России.Кажется, что вся политика Путина с постсоветскими республиками, направлена на создание вокруг России "санитарного" кордона недружественных соседей. Прибалтика, Грузия, "молочно-нефтяные" войны с Белоруссией,рабовладельческие отношения с жителями Центральной Азии- самоубийственная политика в мире, все более и более объединяющихся в торгово-политические союзы стран. Оголтелый путинский антиамериканизм, антиевропеизм, имперские замашки с бывшими республиками СССР - путь на мировые политические задворки.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 13 August 2013 09: 14 New
      10
      Пафосно про имперские замашки. Насчет "рабовладельческие отношения с жителями Центральной Азии" - не совсем так, тут наоборот скорее. Но в целом... хм...
      А может не только и не столько Путин виноват в создании такого "кардона"? Ведь здравомыслящий человек не будет вокруг себя выстраивать не дружественные отношения у собственных границ. А соседи то пониманимая что нужно России от них, пытаются выторговать побольше, при этом откровенно кидая Путина почти по всем вопросам в итоге. Не задумывались об этом? Или это Путин в прибалтике организовывает парады сами знаете кого? Это Путин в Прибалтеке издевается над всем русским? Русские бегут из республик СНГ! Сейчас меньше но все же. Вы думаете при такой политике в республиках возможен нормальный диалог? Может той же Грузии нужно просто побеседовать нормально с Россией? Ведь она даже не пробовала! А Вы говорите... Или быть может Вы и для Белоруси видите будущее в ЕС?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 24 New
        +6
        Quote: klimpopov
        Or maybe you also see a future for Belarus in the EU?

        Yes, yes, yes, Belarus in the EU, that's just throw the dad, but it's not just laughing
        Klim hi
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 13 August 2013 09: 41 New
          -7
          Hey hello! In secret and in a whisper. The state is called the Republic of Belarus. To call Belarus this is the same as for us Raska. This is so, remark. hi
          1. Poppy
            Poppy 13 August 2013 10: 17 New
            +7
            according to the rules of the Russian language, the country is called Belarus
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 13 August 2013 10: 27 New
              +1
              I know a lot of Belarusians and they call their country Belarus. In PM, and my uncle calls only Belarus!
              1. sq
                sq 13 August 2013 10: 52 New
                +6
                If it’s absolutely right, then Belarus.
                1. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 13 August 2013 10: 56 New
                  +3
                  Well, I'm sorry just by ear.
              2. Shkodnik65
                Shkodnik65 13 August 2013 11: 39 New
                +4
                I apologize, but I would like to remind you that we are on the Russian site. Belarusians (with all due respect to them) can call their country as they like. In Russian, it is called Belarus. Like Kyrgyzstan, let it remain so for the Kyrgyz. And we had Kyrgyzstan, but it remained. Otherwise, it will come to the point that some US representative will demand to call his country United States of America only because they call it that at home ... You should not bring the situation to the point of absurdity.
            2. sq
              sq 13 August 2013 10: 51 New
              -3
              Do you come up with the rules yourself or who tells you?
          2. biglow
            biglow 13 August 2013 12: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: klimpopov
            Hey hello! In secret and in a whisper. The state is called the Republic of Belarus. To call Belarus this is the same as for us Raska. This is so, remark. hi

            There are spelling standards for the Russian language. Goes to the website of the Institute of the Russian language and see the correct spelling -Belorussia. What other questions. In Belarusian, write as you know. We speak and write in Russian as it is. hi
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 13 August 2013 12: 56 New
              +1
              Вам нравится когда Вас россиянином называют? Мне нет... Таже история. А Украина "в" или "на"? Элементраное уважение а не формализм. Уж простите.
              1. zmey_gadukin
                zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 16 New
                +1
                Quote: klimpopov
                Elementary respect and not formalism. Excuse me.

                + 100!
              2. Avenger711
                Avenger711 13 August 2013 16: 41 New
                -1
                "На Украину" и никак иначе. За "в" сразу в морду.
                1. zmey_gadukin
                  zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 17: 11 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Avenger711
                  "На Украину" и никак иначе. За "в" сразу в морду.

                  come on come on ... internet war hero))) laugh with you
                  1. uizik
                    uizik 13 August 2013 21: 41 New
                    0
                    Всегда,сколько помню,у нас говорили "на Украину". Да и какая разница?
      2. Natalia
        Natalia 13 August 2013 10: 33 New
        +3
        Quote: klimpopov
        Пафосно про имперские замашки. Насчет "рабовладельческие отношения с жителями Центральной Азии" - не совсем так, тут наоборот скорее. Но в целом... хм...
        Or maybe not only and not so much Putin is to blame for

        The wrong word is pathetic lol so sang that I already listened laughing bravo bravo .... for artistry, well, 5, and even with a plus. (The Moscow Art Theater is resting) bully ))))
      3. gura
        gura 13 August 2013 11: 52 New
        10
        Из Минска.Kimpopovу. Может немного резковато, но болячки, в основном, мажут "болючим" Йодом, а не вареньем. Я так думаю. "Белоруссия", чтобы понятнее, да и у нас многие так говорят, нет проблем.В СМИ, недавно, проскочило несколько материалов про Саакашвили, его предложения Медведеву о урегулировании проблемы,медведевский ответ, (включая "Я с Володей переговорю" - умереть!) Но путинский пассаж "за яйца подвешу", (новое слово в дипломатии, все президенты онемели от зависти),и многое другое, привели к тому, что произошло. Материалов много. Можно разобраться. Даже наш АГЛ не полез в это болото, с признанием Южной Осетии. И правильно сделал. Из Прибалтики никто из русских (славян), в Россию, и к нам, на ПМЖ не едет. Сужу по Литве. Ходят электрички в Вильнюс. 3 часа езды. Отношение к белорусам отличное. Правда, смешны литовские фамилии Баранаускас (Баранов), Иванаускас и т.п.Про Латвию и Эстонию знаю меньше, но то, что бизнес Латвии на 80% у местных славян, знаю. Латышей это немного напрягает, но привыкли. Литовские и латышские инвестиции у нас - одни из самых крупных. К вам - другое, более настороженное отношение, боятся повторения российского беспредела в вопросах собственности.
        60% of Belarusian exports go to the European Union, for example, 100% l / s of the Bundeswehr go in the form of sewn with us. Belarus is a multi-vector country, special relations with China are worth a lot.
        What about subsidizing allies? Worldwide practice. The United States has provided Israel, Egypt, and Turkey free of charge financial and military assistance for decades, worth hundreds of billions of $.
        And they don’t think they were wasted. So - profitable for their interests. But reproaching for help is not a sign of a diplomatic mind. Sincerely.
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 13 August 2013 12: 04 New
          +1
          With respect. So you yourself are talking about multi-vector and it turns out that it turns out. So why in (in) Ukraine does not work? Again, many guys know who work with us and quite successfully ...
          Regarding the reproaches, it’s mutual (not only and not so much about your country I’m talking about). I often visit Minsk. By the way a wonderful city!
          1. gura
            gura 13 August 2013 12: 28 New
            +4
            From Minsk. Thinking, caring people, dear guests. Welcome! Kali weasel! Happily!
        2. xan
          xan 13 August 2013 13: 05 New
          0
          Quote: gura
          What about subsidizing allies? Worldwide practice. The United States has provided Israel, Egypt, and Turkey free of charge financial and military assistance for decades, worth hundreds of billions of $.
          And they don’t think they were wasted. So - profitable for their interests. But reproaching for help is not a sign of a diplomatic mind. Sincerely.

          I realized that loot should be presented just like that, free of charge, and not get into internal and external affairs.
          and ho ho ho ho ho?
        3. Nod
          Nod 13 August 2013 13: 08 New
          0
          Belarus is a multi-vector country

          Well, nonsense.
        4. Avenger711
          Avenger711 13 August 2013 16: 45 New
          0
          And how much does Russia supply to the EU?
          However, can the same gas be exported to Belarus at world prices and be deflected from our defense industry, to which Belarusian enterprises are admitted on equal terms with Russian ones?
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: gura
      .Кажется, что вся политика Путина с постсоветскими республиками, направлена на создание вокруг России "санитарного" кордона недружественных соседей.

      No, why are the jambs blown up by others, and Putin is again to blame?
      1. ivshubarin
        ivshubarin 13 August 2013 11: 41 New
        0
        This is his cross. He is always to blame
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 13: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        why are the jambs smacked by others, and Putin is again to blame?
        He has such a job. He will be elected President of the United States - will become ABSOLUTELY right on ALL issues. Even if it does not change a single belief laughing
    3. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 13 August 2013 09: 26 New
      +7
      Ага-ага! То-ли дело Горбачёв с Ельциным - со всеми дружили,"Чего изволите? Государства Варшавского Договора?-Пожалуйста(только дайте! Дайте нам кредитов на ваших условиях, а то мы не можем у себя работу наладить. Югославию?-Пожалуйста! А нам кредитов, чтобы заплатить вам по кредитам, а то мы у себя работу не можем наладить..) И вот пришёл Вменяемый Президент, стал собирать почти развалившееся Государство, дал понять всем-"дружить с нами за наши деньги(ресурсы) больше не получится" и стал пользоваться не Армией(как в Венгрии, Чехословакии), а экономическим рычагом-"какая бяка!" А с кем "дружат" США, Британия?("Нет постоянных друзей, есть постоянные интересы.").
    4. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 13 August 2013 09: 40 New
      +5
      Quote: gura
      Frantic Putin's anti-Americanism, anti-Europeanism, imperial manners with the former republics of the USSR - the path to world political backyard.

      Do you need a compass? Something you lost orientation ...
      Or do you think that when we are beaten on the right cheek, we should substitute - the left? DO NOT WAIT!
      In my opinion, it would be better if we did not allow ourselves to hit either on the right ... or on the left cheek! It is unlikely that sensible people fit into the concept - imperial ways .. in anti-Americanism and ... whatever ... in anti-Europeanism. But these are your difficulties in the field of logic and in conceptual tools from the field of philology ... what to call.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 August 2013 13: 02 New
        +4
        Quote: KazaK Bo
        Or do you think that when we are beaten on the right cheek, we should substitute - the left?
        You lag behind life. According to the new rules of European tolerance, the one who gets on the cheek is obliged to turn the ass request lol
    5. mazepa
      mazepa 13 August 2013 09: 43 New
      -18
      From Poltava. I agree with you. As for Kievan Rus, where did culture and faith come from, where did the rulers come from? - Of the more developed states at that time, you can argue about our super-ancestors, but this is the official version, and the fact that it was the Russians who built the great wall on the border with China is unofficial. Ukraine actually has 1 way of development - accession to the EU, a step on the path to it is the Association Agreement. Here is the document itself and its paragraphs, in Ukrainian, will you understand, the brothers Russians? I am sure Belarusians will understand. No need to talk about Ukraine as a puppet of the West, the Ukrainian authorities are now pragmatic oligarchs and they have their own interests in the EU and their own people. I've been banned more than once just for expressing such opinions - for me the TS is a projection of the administration of this site. But I treat Russians very well, normal Russians deprived of imperial ambitions. And joining the EU now is like a muddy swamp - it's hard to say what will happen to Ukraine, but I am 100% sure that Ukraine will lose from joining the CU, Ukraine will again take the path after Bogdan Khmelnitsky. The Ukrainian people have endured a lot, I hope that we will not take this path again.
      http://www.kmu.gov.ua/kmu/control/uk/publish/article?art_id=246581344&cat_id=223
      223535
      1. tarks
        tarks 13 August 2013 09: 59 New
        +5
        What kind I have interests in the EU, do not tell?
        1. mazepa
          mazepa 13 August 2013 13: 14 New
          -6
          For you, this is an increase in the chance that Europe will have a stronger influence on the observance of human rights in our country, that domestic goods will become better and they will have to become better in order to compete with European goods. Companies are given 10 years of transition, the strongest remain. I am 100% sure that Ukraine will win anyway, because I believe in the entrepreneurial abilities of Ukrainians. We are waiting for the transition to a community of developed states. There is a saying in chess: you will become smarter only if you play with a smarter opponent. We are the smartest and most cultured, but why do we have such roads, such corruption, such an army, such officials, etc. you can laugh at Americans as much as you like, only they live much better than us, like the Europeans.
          Therefore, your interests, if you care about your family environment, the European macroclimate is obvious. Everything else depends on you, it doesn’t happen that a herd of sheep suddenly becomes a developed society, but the chances of joining the EU increase, and when joining the CU they decrease, we return to the past, take a couple of steps back.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 13 August 2013 16: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: mazepa
            domestic goods will become better, and they will have to become better in order to compete with European goods.
            Do manufacturers of European goods need competitors that bring down prices and intercept the sales market?
            Quote: mazepa
            why do we have such roads, such corruption, such an army, such officials, etc. you can laugh at Americans as much as you like

            Good American roads appeared during the so-called Great Crisis, when according to the federal program, unemployed people dying of hunger for food were organized for road construction. Now Ukraine is getting into a crisis. Are you ready to pick up a wheelbarrow with a shovel for the sake of survival and good Ukrainian roads in the future? winked
            1. zmey_gadukin
              zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 17: 38 New
              0
              Quote: Misantrop
              Are you ready to pick up a wheelbarrow with a shovel for the sake of survival and good Ukrainian roads in the future?

              And you offer. They will. Not all of course. But there are.
          2. tarks
            tarks 13 August 2013 16: 42 New
            +3
            Macroclimate, say ...
            why do we have such roads, such corruption, such an army, such officials, etc.


            И что со всем этим "добром" произойдёт после вступления Украины в ЕС?
            Кстати, именно это "добро", гипетрофированное до размеров государственной власти, нас туда и тянет. В качестве кого?
      2. avt
        avt 13 August 2013 10: 01 New
        +6
        Quote: mazepa
        As for Kievan Rus, where did culture and faith come from, where did the rulers come from? -

        laughing Oh how !! This is something new! Is Ukrainian history rewritten again for the sake of associative accession with the EU? It seems like most recently Kravchuk demanded to study the names of the Kiev princes, Yushchenko generally deduced the entire human race from the Great Dukes, and suddenly such laughing It turns out that you were illiterate in Kiev and Poltava and lived in holes, until you were impregnated with culture from the outside and you were not instructed by the wise civilized leaders ?! Nafig, then it’s definitely better for you in the EU! laughing
        1. mazepa
          mazepa 13 August 2013 13: 34 New
          -9
          Well, you probably were not interested in history, did not read Kostomarov.
          In the second half of the XNUMXth century of Russian history, embryos of the course of events that developed and established already under the influence of the Tatar conquest appear. Our ancient chronicler, enumerating the branches of the Slavic-Russian tribe, points to the glades, drevlyans, northerners, etc., but, speaking of the legends about the events of the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries, he considers Meru, a country inhabited by the Russian world system a Finnish tribe of the same name, occupying space in the current provinces: Vladimir, Yaroslavl, Kostroma and parts of Moscow and Tver, attributing tribes and neighboring tribes along with this people: Murom to the south of Mary and All in the north of the same Mary along the Sheksna and near Beloozero. Already in time immemorial, Slavic settlers penetrated the countries of these peoples and settled there, as the Slavic names of the city of Rostov in the land of Mary and Beloozero in the land of Vesy show. Unfortunately, we are not aware of the progress of Slavic colonization in these lands; Undoubtedly, with the adoption of Christianity, it intensified, cities with Russian residents arose, and the natives themselves, adopting Christianity, lost their nationality together with paganism and gradually merged with the Russians, some left their former homeland and fled further to the east. Recent excavations of graves by gr. Uvarov in the land of Mary, show that paganism and the ancient nationality were already extinct in the XII century, at least the later graves with signs of the Merian nationality can be attributed to this period. According to written monuments in the XII century, we meet in these places a significant number of cities, without a doubt, Russian: Rostov, Suzdal, Pereyaslavl-Zalessky, Dmitrov, Uglich, Zubtsov, Mologa, Yuryev, Vladimir, Moscow, Yaroslavl, Tver, Galich-Mersky, Gorodets and others. Concerns in southern Russia prompted its local residents to move to this country. The people of Merya stood on a low degree of education, did not constitute an original political body and, moreover, was not warlike, as the poverty of weapons in his graves shows: that is why he easily obeyed the power and influence of the Russians. In this region, colonized by newcomers from different Slavic-Russian lands, a new branch of the Slavic-Russian nationality was formed, which laid the foundation for the Great Russian people

          А у вас сейчас Киевская РУсь -это Древнерусское государство, какое право имеете вы называться Киевскую Русь Древнерусским государством? Ваша государственность сформировалась в "спокойных от татар землях", где вы поглощали финские племена.Вот это начало вашей государственности, наследником КР вы не являетесь. Наследники КР -Украина и Белорусь, которые оказавшись в условиях постоянных набегов татар были вынуждены пойти на союз с Литвой. Поэтому переписывании истории -это ваш конёк. Это лёгко делать, продолжать имея за спиной несколько столетий культурного влияния на Украину. Я пишу на языке, который люблю, но я должен заметить, что он мало чего общего имеет с языком Киевской Руси, украинский и белорусский языки между собой почти схожи и являются намного более близкими к языку КР. Так же замечу, что Киев спалили ваши предки, уничтожив его политическое и религиозное влияние на остальные города. Вы можете говорить о других историках, только все они допускали ряд существенных ошибок, которые могут не замечать только параноики и империалисты. Вы просто должны слышать мою железную позицию и она не изменится ведь я на 100% уверен, что у вас нету аргументов, которые стоят внимания.
          Now where do we get religion from? Writing? with whom was trade in the heyday of the Kyrgyz Republic?
          1. smiths xnumx
            smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 14: 01 New
            +6
            А у вас сейчас Киевская РУсь -это Древнерусское государство, какое право имеете вы называться Киевскую Русь Древнерусским государством? Ваша государственность сформировалась в "спокойных от татар землях", где вы поглощали финские племена.Вот это начало вашей государственности, наследником КР вы не являетесь. Наследники КР -Украина и Белорусь, которые оказавшись в условиях постоянных набегов татар были вынуждены пойти на союз с Литвой. Поэтому переписывании истории -это ваш конёк. Это лёгко делать, продолжать имея за спиной несколько столетий культурного влияния на Украину. Я пишу на языке, который люблю, но я должен заметить, что он мало чего общего имеет с языком Киевской Руси, украинский и белорусский языки между собой почти схожи и являются намного более близкими к языку КР. Так же замечу, что Киев спалили ваши предки, уничтожив его политическое и религиозное влияние на остальные города. Вы можете говорить о других историках, только все они допускали ряд существенных ошибок, которые могут не замечать только параноики и империалисты. Вы просто должны слышать мою железную позицию и она не изменится ведь я на 100% уверен, что у вас нету аргументов, которые стоят внимания.
            Now where do we get religion from? Writing? with whom was trade in the heyday of the Kyrgyz Republic?
            Drop dead, to remind you where Oleg sailed with his squad and Igor. From Novgorod. The year of formation of Old Russian statehood is 862, the year when Rurik, Sineus and Truvor sailed to LADOGA. Kiev at that time was a small Slavic town, paying tribute to the Khazars. And to say that the Russian state
            сформировалось в "спокойных от татар землях", где вы поглощали финские племена.
            maybe only a complete ignoramus and ignoramus with brainwashed Svidomo propaganda. Now you reproach that
            Kiev your ancestors burned, destroying its political and religious influence on other cities
            . Тем более в что в "свидомых" учебниках истории такая красивая картинка, как "Moskali руйнують Киев", так читайте летописи и источники:
            11 princes took part in the campaign to Kiev: the younger brothers of Andrey Bogolyubsky: Gleb Yuryevich Pereyaslavsky and Vsevolod Yuryevich (future Vsevolod the Big Nest); the princes of the Smolensk branch of the Monomakhovichs: Roman Rostislavich Smolensky, Rurik Rostislavich Ovruchsky, Davyd Rostislavich Vyshgorodsky and Mstislav Rostislavich (the place of reigning is not named), Olgovichi: Oleg Svyatoslavich Novgorod-Seversky, Igor Svyatoslavich Kursky and Putivlsky (future hero of the trip to the sexes Igor’s regiment ”); Vladimir Andreevich Dorogobuzhsky. The troops included contingents from other cities of Vladimir-Suzdal land: Rostov, Vladimir and Suzdal residents are mentioned; as well as residents of Polis, who were allies of the Rostislavichs, and Murom and Ryazans, who were allies of Andrei. The command was carried out by the son of Andrei Bogolyubsky Mstislav Andreevich and the experienced Suzdal voivode Boris Zhidislavich.
            So that both the ancestors of the Russians and the ancestors of the Ukrainians and even the ancestors of the Belarusians (residents of Polotsk) burned it. And in 1203, it was generally burned by the Chernigov prince Rurik Rostislavich, who, with all the desire, cannot be written down in Russian ancestors.
            1. smiths xnumx
              smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 16: 10 New
              +2
              So, there’s nothing personal, an ordinary feudal war, like everywhere else: in England at that time Normans with the Saxons, Scots and Welsh merrily slaughtered, and in France Franks with the Burgundians and Gascons, and the Normans (descendants of the Vikings) slaughtered both of them.
              The heirs of the Kyrgyz Republic -Ukraine and Belarus, who found themselves in conditions of constant raids of the Tatars, were forced to enter into an alliance with Lithuania.

              Это как на союз? Или вы забыли про битву на реке Ирпень, в которой в которой литовская армия под предводительством Гедимина разгромила дружины киевского князя Станислава и его союзников, а затем Киев. Наряду с Киевом литовцами были взяты также Переяславль, Путивль, Вышгород, Канев и Белгород. То, с какой лёгкостью литовцам удалось после битвы овладеть русскими городами, говорит о разгромном итоге Ирпенской битвы. Или вы снова будете вспоминать "королевство" Даниила Галицкого, так оно через 60 лет после его смерти было завоевано поляками, венграми и литовцами и до 1939 года, т. е. пока до него не дотянулся "проклятый Сталин" было под чужеземным господством (Литва, Польша, Австро-Венгрия, снова Польша), тогда как "финно-угры" русские сумели создать свое государство, скинуть иго и вытащить из-под чужеземного гнета своих братьев-украинцев. После чего украинская знать приняла католичество и предала свой народ и веру. Тот же злейший враг Богдана Хмельницкого- Иеремия Вишневецкий- потомок первого запорожского гетмана Байды-Вишневецкого или почитайте Сенкевича, так там с казаками и рубится "русская шляхта" паны Володыевский и Кшетусский, которые предали свой народ и веру и к своим собратьям обращались не иначе как "". А как они поступали с теми кто был против, почитайте Гоголя, у него в "Тарасе Бульбе" это него красноречиво описано. Та битва под Конотопом, которой так гордятся свидомиты, по сути дела была ничего-нерешающей стычкой, в которой с ОБЕИХ сторон принимали участие украинцы. С Выговским было войско крымского хана составляющее 2/3 от общего количества, и 3000 польский отряд, а конница князя Пожарского на половину состояла из запорожских казаков Ивана Беспалого. Русская пехота князя Трубецкого в сражении не участвовала и отступила в полном порядке. А на следующий год Выговского выгнали САМИ украинцы, а затем была "Руина"...
              1. smiths xnumx
                smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 16: 38 New
                +3
                Here is a list of those hetmans who are in a monastery near Baturin recorded by one of the archimandrites of the XNUMXth century.
                Vygovsky Ivan - an oath, fratricide, the drive of the Tatars to destroy the Little Russian people, the sale of Russia to Catholics and Poles, a silver lover Veliy.

                Khmelnitsky Yuri - the oath-breaker three times, Christ seller of faith and people to the Lyakhs and Busurmans; Tatar drive.

                Doroshenko Petr is a bribe taker, a rascal, an oath-breaker, the culprit of fratricide and torment of the people from the Tatars who have undergone, a Busurman servant.

                Teteria Pavel is a money-lover, oath-criminal and servant voluntary lyashsky. The instigator of Yu. Khmelnitsky for treason.

                The many-sinful Damian is a crafty, double-minded slave, prone to betrayal, well-exposed and punished with retribution.
                Не правда ли "достойные" личности. Уголовный кодекс нервно курит в сторонке. Тот Мазепа, которого вы избрали своим ником ничем в истории кроме предательства не отметился. Предал свой народ, пойдя на службу к польскому королю, затем изгнанный, предал всех своих покровителей с целью добраться до власти, а затем предал и Петра, только шведского Карла предать не успел. Так за ним и пошли всего 2000 сердюков, которым шведы даже не доверили участия в Полтавской битве, используя только на земляных работах. а потом сдох в Бендерах заеденный вшами. вы мне заявите "Батуринская резня", в которой якобы истребили тысячи, нет десятки тысяч, нет сотни тысяч украинцев, как доказали свидомые "историки". Так как не проводили раскопки на месте Батурина, чтобы доказать ее факт, не нашли НИ ОДНОГО массового захоронения.
                О какой дискриминации вы рассказываете, "угнетенные" украинцы становились графами как Безбородко и Разумовский; канцлерами как Кочубей; фельдмаршалами как Гудович и Паскевич граф "Эриванский", князь "Варшавский". Но это уже НАШИ герои, не ваши. Или вы будете рассказывать о Тарасе Шевченко, которого русские выкупили из крепостного рабства у УКРАИНЦА "Энгельгардта", а он отплатил им сочинением пасквилей. Вот, что сказал о Шевченко критик В. Г. Белинский:
                "...Но здравый смысл в Шевченке должен видеть осла, дурака и пошлеца, а сверх того, горького пьяницу, любителя горелки по патриотизму ацкому. Этот ацкий радикал написал два пасквиля — один на г<осударя> и<мператора>, другой — на г<осударын>ю и<мператриц>у. Читая пасквиль на себя, г<осударь> хохотал, и, вероятно, дело тем и кончилось бы, и не пострадал бы, за то только, что он глуп. Но когда г<осударь> прочел пасквиль на и<мператри>цу, то пришел в великий гнев, и вот его собственные слова: «Положим, он имел причины быть мною недовольным и ненавидеть меня, но ее-то за что?» И это понятно, когда сообразите, в чем состоит славянское остроумие, когда оно устремляется на женщину. Я не читал этих пасквилей, и никто из моих знакомых их не читал (что, между прочим, доказывает, что они нисколько не злы, а только плоски и глупы), но уверен, что пасквиль на и<мператри>цу должен быть возмутительно гадок по причине, о которой я уже говорил. Шевченку послали на Кавказ солдатом. Мне не жаль его, будь я его судьею, я сделал бы не меньше. Я питаю личную вражду к такого рода либералам. Это враги всякого успеха. Своими дерзкими глупостями они раздражают правительство, делают его подозрительным, готовым видеть бунт там, где нет ничего ровно, и вызывают меры крутые и гибельные для литературы и просвещения."
                1. smiths xnumx
                  smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 16: 57 New
                  +4
                  А потом появилась идея "украинства", придуманная Грушевским, сидевшим в австро-венгерском Львове, которую взяли на вооружение первые "свидомые" после революции 1917 года. И чем же они знамениты: Центральная Рада была обычной германской подстилкой, знаменитой лишь тем, что два ее министра занялись самым банальным рэкэтом похитив богатого киевского промышленника,и за это разогнанная самими же немцами, впрочем успев бросить киевских гимназистов на гибель под Крутами, а затем гетман Скоропадский, тоже стававший для немцев в любую позу "Кама-Сутры", в какую они только пожелают. Вот что сам "гетман" писал о своем опереточном "государстве"
                  " ...Узкое украинство - исключительно продукт, привезенный нам из Галиции, культуру каковой целиком пересаживать нам не имеет никакого смысла: никаких данных на успех нет и это является просто преступлением, так как там, собственно, и культуры нет.
                  After all, Galicians live leftovers from the German and Polish table. Already one language clearly reflects them, where in five words - 4 of Polish or German origin.

                  Впрочем, Скоропадскому его понимание не помогло, поэтому после революции в Германии, он быстренько собрал манатки и свалил в Берлин, бросив защищавших его русских офицеров, читайте исконного киевлянина М. А. Булгакова "Белая гвардия", там об этом хорошо написано.
                  А затем появился Петлюра. О это был "великий" деятель" с большими аппетитами:
                  The press openly discussed plans for the eviction from Ukraine of all Russians and the restoration of the "natural" borders of Ukraine from the Carpathians to the Don and from the Black Sea to the Vistula. At the same time, the territories of Voronezh, Kursk, Novorossiysk provinces, Stavropol Territory, Don, Kuban, Bessarabia and some Polish provinces inhabited by Belarusians and Poles were assigned to Ukrainian lands. The Petliurites included in the “great Ukraine” a vast territory inhabited by peoples of various nationalities. In addition, they demanded colonies in Turkestan and Siberia. ”
                  . Заодно он еще до Гитлера первым озаботился "окончательным решением еврейского вопроса", а его "армия" была так знаменита своими погромами, что в конце концов его в Париже застрелил Самуил Шварцбард, родственников которого вырезали петлюровцы, за что он и был ОПРАВДАН ФРАНЦУЗСКИМ СУДОМ.
                  1. smiths xnumx
                    smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 17: 10 New
                    +2
                    Here is what the Little Russian peasant Nestor Makhno wrote about this in his memoirs, which you can’t classify as Russian:
                    «Момент был такой, что оставаться в стороне и только смотреть или слушать, что делается, нельзя было. Оставаться нейтральным и к тем и другим тем более было невозможно, потому что население района было определенно враждебно настроено против политики Украинской Центральной рады, агенты которой, разъезжая по району, травили всякого и каждого революционера, называя его "предателем неньки Украины" и защитником ", я нацистская морда,iв", которых по "идее" Центральной Украинской рады (по выражению ее агентов), конечно, нужно было убивать, "як гобытилi в мови".
                    SUCH AN IDEA OFFENDED PEASANTS. They pulled off the preachers from the tribune and beat them as enemies of the brotherly unit of the Ukrainian people with the Russians.
                    It was this vindictive sermon of chauvinists-Ukrainians that pushed the working population of the Gulyaypol region to the path of armed struggle against any form of separate Ukraine, for the population saw in this chauvinism, which was actually the guiding idea of ​​Ukraine, death for revolution.

                    Впрочем и Петлюра также не отстал от своих "прославленных" предшественников и в 1920 году и подарил Польше Пилсудского Галицию со Львовом и Волынь.
                    On April 21, 1920, Petliura in Warsaw concluded an agreement with the “head of state” Pilsudski, according to which the Directory refused all claims to Galicia, recognizing it as Polish territory. Moreover, Petliura actually recognized the borders of the Commonwealth in 1772, and, accordingly, the Right Bank of Ukraine was transferred to Poland. Pilsudski, in turn, recognized Petliura as the head of the Left Bank.

                    Three days later, on April 24, Petlyura signed a military convention, which determined the place and role of Petliurites during the upcoming Polish invasion of Ukraine. The main command of the Polish troops provided weapons and complete equipment for the three Petlyura divisions, which were to be subordinate to the Polish command. The 6th clause of the convention read: “Since the beginning of general actions against the Bolsheviks, the Ukrainian government, operating in that territory, is obliged to deliver products for the Polish army in quantity, according to the operational plan of the main layout: meat, lard, flour, bread, cereals, vegetables, sugar, oats, hay, straw, etc., on the basis of food standards required by the Polish army, as well as the required quantity of supply. ” The Convention developed in detail the procedure for the occupation of Ukraine by Polish troops, the distribution of future military production, etc.
                    1. smiths xnumx
                      smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 17: 39 New
                      0
                      Война с Польшей для советской России закончилась неудачно и "подаренные" Петлюрой земли, так и остались у Польши. И уж тут поляки развернулись. На всех приличных зданиях и в Городском саду Львова висели вывески "Людям с собаками и украинцам вход воспрещен", тогда кстати и появился термин "рагули" от рогаток, которыми поляки огораживали город, чтобы не пускать в него деревенских крестьян-украинцев. Проводилась политика полонизации, на украинские земли заселяли ветеранов польской армии- "осадников", предоставляя им лучшие земли. Впрочем очередные "борцы за незалэжность" снова отличились, сначала занимались терроризмом и рэкэтом, а потом всем скопом пошли на службу Германии, доказывая по очереди свою преданность. Их руководитель бывший полковник австро-венгерской армии Евген Коновалець, до того "доамурничался" с немцами, что УКРАИНЦУ Судоплатову пришлось угостить его коробочкой очень "вкусных" конфет. И тут появился очередной "ХЕРой" Украины Степан Бандера, знаменитый лишь тем, что любил душить кошек (да, да душить кошек, за что они их так ненавидел истории точно неизвестно, но об этом он даже писал в своем дневнике), ходить на строну и террористическими актами. Немцы отметили подобное рвение Банлеры и его подручных и сформировали в составе абвера два батальона "Нахтигаль" во главе со Стецько и Шлюхевичем (об этой немецкой подстилке речь пойдет позже) и "Роланд". Ворвавшись вместе с немцами 30 июня во Львов бандеровцы первым делом занялись резней польской интеллигенции, евреев и украинцев, сочувствующих Советской власти, Вот, что об этом писали сами немцы:
                      "Они взяли в зубы длинные кинжалы, засучили рукава гимнастёрок, держа оружие на изготовку. Их вид был омерзителен. Словно бесноватые, громко икая, с пеной на устах, с выпученными глазами неслись они по улицам Львова. Каждый, кто попал им в руки, был жестоко казнен".
                      Фотографии этого "действа" и сегодня вызывают ужас. Впрочем об этом на сегодняшней Украине и скромно умалчивают.
                      One of the most terrible photos of Lviv pogroms of 1941
                      The victim, apparently, refers to some executioners or a German photographer.
                      1. smiths xnumx
                        smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 17: 55 New
                        +2
                        И вот после этого "мероприятия" была провозглашена в очередной раз "незалежность" Украины. Вот дословный акт:
                        The act of proclamation of the Ukrainian State.

                        1. By the will of the Ukrainian people, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, led by Stepan Bandera, proclaims the creation of the Ukrainian State, for which entire generations of the best sons of Ukraine have laid their heads.
                        The organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, which, under the leadership of its Creator and Leader Yevgeny Konovalets, has led a stubborn struggle for freedom in the last decades of the bloody Moscow-Bolshevik enslavement, calls on the entire Ukrainian people not to lay down their arms for so long until the Sovereign Ukrainian Power has been created on all Ukrainian lands.
                        Sovereign Ukrainian Authority will ensure peace and order for the Ukrainian people, the full development of all its forces and the satisfaction of all its needs.
                        2. On the western lands of Ukraine, Ukrainian Authority is created, which will submit to the Ukrainian National Government, which will be created in the capital of Ukraine - Kiev.
                        3. The newly created Ukrainian State will work closely with the National Socialist Greater Germany, which, under the leadership of its Leader Adolf Hitler, creates a new order in Europe and in the world and helps the Ukrainian people free themselves from the Moscow occupation.
                        The Ukrainian National Revolutionary Army, which is being created on Ukrainian soil, will continue to fight together with the Allied German Army against the Moscow occupation of the Sovereign Council State and the new order around the world.
                        Long live the Sovereign Council of the Ukrainian State! Long live the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, Long live the head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and Ukrainian people Stepan Bandera! Glory to Ukraine!
                        Think about these words:
                        The newly created Ukrainian State will closely interact with the National Socialist Great Germany, which, under the leadership of its Leader Adolf Hitler, creates a new order in Europe
                        И никак иначе. Впрочем немцы подобную самодеятельность не оценили, на Украину у них были свои планы (один план "Ост" чего стоил) и разогнали т.н. "правительство" А Бандеру отправили в привелегированный барак концлагеря "Заксенхаузен", где содержались особо важные персоны. Впрочем по другой версии его арестовали, за присвоение денег, выделенных немецкой разведкой. Продолжение следует...
                      2. smiths xnumx
                        smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 19: 41 New
                        +1
                        Впрочем не всем так повезло. Два брата Бандеры, тоже отправленные в концлагеря были убиты своими сокармерниками поляками, узнавшими о "Волынской резне". ну обо всем по порядку.
                        После провозглашения "независимости" Украины, немцы решили, что такие союзники им не нужны и отправили батальоны "Нахтигаль" и "Роланд" на фронт. Впрочем сражаться с Красной Армией дело довольно опасное, в отличие от распав на безоружными стариками,профессорами, женщинами и детьми, поэтому батальоны были расформированы, как показавшие крайне низкие боевые качества. Впрочем бандеровцы без дела и их вместе с Шухевичем отправили бороться за "независимую" Украину в Белоруссию в составе 201-го охранного батальона. Там они и занялись привычным делом, сжигая деревни, и истребляя безоружных белорусских женщин и детей, так активно, что Шухевич-Шлюхевич заработал аж 2 Железных креста. Впрочем время от времени партизаны мстили бандерлогам, о чем Шлюхевич жаловался униатскому архиепископу Шептичкому
                        Day 30 Sunday I buried in the zbirnі grave twenty six naikrashchikh, most important boys from our smoker, with the writer Kashubinsky Roman at the table. For the whole reason, I was escorting our wounded from the battlefield until I’ve stood, hanged partisan warriors in the stump. The bulo [a] munits didn’t become anymore. It is terribly important and, more likely, the Bulo of men’s burial. Not such a finale of our zmagan mi ochkuvali. In addition, further upkoryuvannya, all those vitvoryu Stan psychic depressii so elders, as well as in the pages. Not bachimo kіntsya. I’ll embed our warrior’s nobility with birch crosses. Kochuочmo as much on the bugs of Belarus as it is already wasted, who should bring us to see the golden-domed [Kiev]; Chi, you may have to embed a foreign body in a young corpse, for a stranger I will. I’m not fit to come to myself, to take in my hands the silent burial. Dovgy coffin axis in front of my windows.

                        As follows from this letter, in September 1942, the Belarusian partisans intensified their actions and the noble service of the Nakhtigalev and Roland soldiers ended, while the partisans “carved a platoon of the 1st hundred commanded by Shukhevych in the stump”. The partisans dealt more and more powerful blows, it was 1943 in the courtyard, the Germans were surrounded and defeated near Stalingrad, the Red Army began to liberate Ukraine and the air smelled of fried, so Shlyukhevych and his associates decided to desert ... They succeeded and they again found themselves on Western Ukraine.
                      3. smiths xnumx
                        smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 20: 01 New
                        +4
                        Здесь они осмотревшись стали собирать вокруг себя "соратников", которые сидели тихо как мыши за печкой и формировать из них отряды, благо оружия после боев 1939 и 1941 годов осталось много. Собранную банду они и назвали Украинская повстанческая армия (УПА). Впрочем с немцами эта УПА не воевала, вот, что о ее деятельности писал фельдмаршал Манштейн в своих мемуарах "Утерянные победы":
                        “There were three types of partisans: the Soviet, who fought against the Germans and terrorized the civilian population; the Ukrainians who fought with the Soviet partisans but usually released the Germans, disarming them, and, finally, the gangs of Polish partisans who fought both the Germans and the Ukrainians. ”
                        . Как мы видим бандеровцы никак не сражались с немцами. Впрочем, в наши дни запрос а Бундесархив, также подтвердил отсутствие потерь Вермахта от бандерлогов. Так с кем же воевали бандеровцы? Советских партизан на территории Западной Украины было мало, правда совершались рейдовые операции отрядов Ковпака, Федорова и Вершигоры, но они и сдачи могли дать, что мало не покажется. Евреев всех перебили еще летом 1941 года, оставались поляки, благо их политика "пацификации", о которой я писал выше настроила против них сельское население. И началась "Волынская резня". Количество ее жертв до сих пор неизвестно и колеблется от 50 до 180 тысяч. По сути дела это была самая натуральная этническая чистка. О ее характере, можно судить по тому факту, что Шлюхевичу на день рождения подарили 5 отрезанных голов поляков. Подробности этой резни, я опущу из омерзения. Ограничусь только одной этой фотографией.
                      4. smiths xnumx
                        smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 20: 38 New
                        +2
                        The Germans could not help but appreciate such zeal and in early March 1943 in the newspapers of the Galicia district published the “Manifesto of the combat-ready youth of Galicia” by the governor of the Galicia district, Otto Wechter, in which the devoted service “for the benefit of the Reich” of the Galician Ukrainians and their repeated requests to the Fuhrer for participation were noted in armed struggle, - and the Fuhrer, taking into account all the merits of the Galician Ukrainians, allowed the formation of the SS Galicia Rifle Division (German SS-Schützendivision “Galizien”). The oath was the same as for other voluntary associations: “I serve you, Adolf Hitler, as the Führer and the Chancellor!” Volunteers recruited as many as 80 people, so the Germans selected 000 of the best from them, however, the rest did not remain unclaimed; they were sent to guard battalions and auxiliary police to fight the partisans. The first divisions that entered into battle with the partisans were units 20, 000 , 4th, 5th and 6th SS regiments, operating against partisans in France, Poland, Yugoslavia and Western Ukraine. According to the Institute of History of the Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, since the fall of 1943, divisions of the division have been taking part in anti-partisan operations in southeastern Poland. In early 1944, to suppress the partisan movement from France, the 4th regiment of the division was transferred to the Governor-General (Zbarazh district). То есть эти "борцы за свободу Украины" боролись за ее свободу уже в Польше, Франции и Югославии. However, the Red Army was advancing and the division was sent to the front near Brody, where it was routed and scattered, without even taking the locks out of the guns. However, not everyone escaped, and about 9000 kov were wound on the tracks of our tanks. only 500 defectives came to the Germans. however, the surviving nits slaughtered the Polish village of Guta-Penyatskaya, killing more than 800 people. after that, the Germans no longer sent Galician SS men to the front and used it only to fight partisans in Slovakia and Yugoslavia, where they surrendered to the British and declared themselves citizens of Poland in order to avoid extradition. It remains to clarify a rather prosaic question - about the relationship between the SS division " Galicia "and the UPA. If you believe the current Svidomo historians such as Sergeychuk and Shapoval, it seems that they were separate formations, although not fighting each other, but their structures, and the forms and methods of struggle against a common enemy ("Bolshevik Moscow"). In reality, there was no alienation between them and this explains the mass transitions of members of the SS division "Galicia" to the UPA and, conversely, UPA militants - to the SS division "Galicia". So, from the surviving remnants of the division, after its defeat at Brody in July 1944, part of the “divisions” joined the UPA. UPA commander Roman Shukhevych himself, before coming to this position, served in the 201st SS police division, which fought with Belarusian partisans. This is also indicated by the top secret directive of the Galicia district administration “On deserters and defectors from the SS Galicia volunteer division of April 18, 1944. The directive requires UPA gang leaders to issue deserters and defectors from the SS Galichina SS division to the occupation authorities to hold them accountable for war crimes committed before the Reich.
                        The flag was used on April 28, 1943 in Lemberg (Lviv) at the parade celebrating the proclamation of the act on the creation of the CC Galicia Rifle Division. Nothing like.
                      5. smiths xnumx
                        smiths xnumx 13 August 2013 21: 15 New
                        +2
                        As I wrote above, the Red Army entered the territory of Western Ukraine and here Bandera received weapons from the Germans deployed. the most famous victim was the commander of the 1st Ukrainian Front, Army General Nikolai Fedorovich Vatutin, in the guard of honor at the tomb of whom was my great-grandfather, Ukrainian from Sumy region MANUSHA IVAN DANILOVYCH (eternal memory to you great-grandfather, thank you and low bow for life). In total, in the fight against banderlogs they laid down their heads:
                        According to the KGB of the Ukrainian SSR, in 1944 - 1953, the irretrievable losses of the Soviet side in the clashes and from the "gangs" amounted to 30 676 people. Among them are 697 state security officers, 1 864 - Interior Ministry officer, 3 199 military, 2 590 fighter battalion fighters; 2 732 - representatives of the authorities, 251 communist, 207 Komsomol workers, 314 - chairmen of collective farms, 15 355 collective farmers and peasants, 676 workers, 1 931 - representatives of the intelligentsia, 860 - children, old people and housewives.

                        Over 1943 - 1956 156 of thousands of members of the bandit underground were destroyed, 103 866 people were arrested on charges of belonging to the OUN and UPA, 87 756 people were convicted, and about 77 thousands "surrendered"

                        Как мы видим основная масса погибших мирные жители, что прекрасно показывает с кем боролись бандерлоги. Впрочем большинство из них ждал вот такой конец как на фотографии или отправились удобрять "воркутинскую целину", к сожалению как показывают последние события не все. Гуманистами были товарищ Сталин и НКВД, а зря.
                        OUN member Ivan Klimchak (aka “Bald”, aka “Pavlyuk”, aka a couple more clicks). Slayer of Polish and Jewish women and children. In 1944 The NKVD conducted a successful operation against the Lysyi gang itself. The Ukrainian Nazi and the murderer were overtaken by a well-deserved bullet. And the body was hung up for public display in Shatsk (Volyn region). This is a posthumous photo. As the saying goes, the dog - dog death:
                      6. MG42
                        MG42 13 August 2013 21: 17 New
                        +3
                        blacksmiths 1977, put the cons because not on the topic of the branch at all even without a dialogue, put a few long copied posts from other forums and from Wikipedia, put the links .. ran into thoughts on the tree and came to the swastika in the end .. winked
                        там сегодняшняя есть ветка о сс <галиция> это туда надо..

                        http://ukrstor.com/ukrstor/bezprava-kniga1-2.3.html

                        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
  • avt
    avt 13 August 2013 18: 12 New
    0
    laughing
    Quote: mazepa
    I also note that Kiev was burned by your ancestors, destroying its political and religious influence on other cities. You can talk about other historians, only they all made a number of significant mistakes that only paranoid and imperialists can not notice. You just have to hear my iron stand and it will not change because I'm 100% sure that you have no arguments that are worth attention.
    Now where do we get religion from? Writing? with whom was trade in the heyday of the Kyrgyz Republic?

    laughing
    Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
    Drop dead, to remind you where Oleg sailed with his squad and Igor. From Novgorod. The year of formation of Old Russian statehood is 862, the year when Rurik, Sineus and Truvor sailed to LADOGA. Kiev at that time was a small Slavic town, paying tribute to the Khazars. And to say that the Russian state

    Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
    So that both the ancestors of the Russians and the ancestors of the Ukrainians and even the ancestors of the Belarusians (residents of Polotsk) burned it. And in 1203, it was generally burned by the Chernigov prince Rurik Rostislavich, who, with all the desire, cannot be written down in Russian ancestors.

    Here it is in a nutshell, well, and the bazaar of Svidomo about circumcision of religious influence is generally a song! Especially in view of the fact that the Nikon reform in Russia under Quietest, when Ukraine was annexed, in general, Kiev priests, who escaped from the Uniates and Catholics, were muddied. So the split is in the same Denisenko’s blood, swear on the Bible and immediately blind his patriarchy. laughing Well, then the pepper is clear - Moscow Imperies are to blame. laughing But in general, a mazepa from Poltava is something! laughing laughing Symbolic however! Well, trying on his own fate - not envy. laughing
  • Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 13 August 2013 11: 53 New
    +7
    The Ukrainian people have endured a lot, I hope that we will not take this path again.

    Уважаемый Мазепа, я прекрасно помню то время, когда лет 20 назад, украинское население (не всё конечно, но очень многие и очень громко) кричали что "" сожрали всё ихнее сало, и что стоит только отделиться, то сразу будет всем счастье, а Россия сдохнет от голода, потому как именно Украина её кормит. Прошло два десятилетия. История всё разложила по полкам. И без украинского сала уровень жизни в России не упал, а пожалуй что и повысился. А вот Украина не жирует, ох не жирует... Да, народ украины терпел, (конечно не так много как русский) но он еще много будет "огребать", покуда не поймет - в Европе вы, и мы тоже - пасынки, предназначенный только для решения проблем, если так можно сказать, "Великоевропейцев". Не наступайте опять на те же грабли, учтите свои ошибки.
    1. evgen762
      evgen762 13 August 2013 23: 56 New
      0
      http://tujhtujh737.livejournal.com/181200.html
  • Flooding
    Flooding 13 August 2013 12: 07 New
    +5
    Quote: mazepa
    Ukraine will again take the road after Bohdan Khmelnitsky

    What is this way? Khmelnitsky bowed to the gentry or the Magyars?
    But what are you, national liberals, so toothless that you cannot find other arguments besides how to drag in the heroes of past centuries?
    Not afraid to meet in the next world? What if he asks?
  • Don
    Don 13 August 2013 14: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: mazepa
    but I am 100% sure that Ukraine will lose from joining the CU, Ukraine will again take the path after Bogdan Khmelnitsky.

    Are you sure? Well, what about the facts? What will lose? Economic facts. Justify why, due to what.
  • aepocmam
    aepocmam 13 August 2013 10: 39 New
    +7
    Никаких торговых "войн" с соседями Россия по настоящему еще и не начинала. Ни с Прибалтикой, ни с Украиной, ни с Грузией. Была только разведка боем.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 13 August 2013 11: 05 New
      +2
      А уже вопли какие. Настоящая "война" просто убьет много экономик соседних республик а те что не убьет ввергнет в кому это точно... ИМХО
  • Ribwort
    Ribwort 13 August 2013 11: 20 New
    +6
    Quote: gura
    ... imperial ways with the former republics of the USSR - the path to world political backyards.

    If at the end of the last century until 85, Russia (the USSR) was in the political backyard, then I would not mind being back there ... wink
  • Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 13 August 2013 11: 31 New
    +5
    Ну а Путин то тут причем??? Ты человек ВТОРОГО сорта только потому что ты русский (или россиянин - как угодно). Не пуская Россию в ЕС, НАТО, гейропа и США усиленно затаскивают туда всю восточную Европу. Я бы сказал что это не Путин строит "санитарный кордон", а наши "западные партнёры". Можно как угодно относится к ВВП, но то что внешняя политика России стала САМОСТОЯТЕЛЬНОЙ - это факт. И вам господа, придется привыкать к тому, что защищая свои интересы Россия и впредь будет вести "вино-газо-нефте-молочные..." и другие войны. Собсвенно именно этим-же занимается и Германия и наш заклятый "друг" США.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 13 August 2013 11: 36 New
      +2
      He approves of you! laughing Seriously, I agree. Attitude to GDP is our internal affair, and Russia's foreign policy may be even worse, but without excesses.
      И с этой политикой придется мириться. Рыночные отношения? Получите. ЕС? Ну так как "полноправный" член и отношение...
  • Garrin
    Garrin 13 August 2013 11: 42 New
    +3
    Quote: gura
    , slaveholding with residents of Central Asia-

    Are they being pulled here on lasso?
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 13 August 2013 12: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: gura
    Frantic Putin's anti-Americanism, anti-Europeanism, imperial manners with the former republics of the USSR - the path to world political backyard.
    But no less rabid pro-Americanism of Gorbachev led the USSR to happiness and prosperity, right? laughing
  • Nod
    Nod 13 August 2013 13: 00 New
    0
    I didn’t get it so don’t get to anyone. bring down and take it all the same. she’ll go or force
  • to water
    to water 13 August 2013 17: 29 New
    +2
    Central Asia has always lived in a slave system. Even during the USSR, the same Tajiks were strictly divided among themselves according to class affiliation. Dekhkanin (or a collective farmer in Russian) and his children under no circumstances could occupy the post of official or place of work in a trade structure, as well as marry a person of another class. They do not understand another attitude to themselves. They perceive a more loyal attitude towards themselves as an opponent’s weakness. For a better analysis of the situation, you need to live a little in their state.
  • nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 13 August 2013 08: 42 New
    +4
    with this rake called loans, Russia still has hemorrhoids in the form of prescribed laws and lured financiers, the west will certainly help Ukraine to bend lower and widen wider, free candy wrappers for which black soil and industrial remnants will be bought up, and there are quite a lot of fans to rustle with them in your pocket.
  • boot
    boot 13 August 2013 08: 49 New
    +8
    Ukraine without Russia is a wife freaking out from unpleasant days, deciding that there will no longer be such days in another society. I decided that it was time to overcome Nature.
    Only in the future, not only she will suffer (which is indisputable), but also anyone who takes pity and puts her shoulder on which she will be fully aware of her own right, fixing in the notebook all the material benefits that the holder of this again uncomfortable shoulder did not give her .
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 August 2013 09: 02 New
    +3
    Already from whom but from Ukraine did not expect this .. In fact, they climb into the loop ..
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 09: 47 New
      0
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Already from whom and from Ukraine did not expect this.

      Yes, nothing really depends on Ukraine, but the EU will put forward new requirements and that’s all. Old, like a world belay
    2. MG42
      MG42 13 August 2013 12: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Already from whom and from Ukraine did not expect this.

      Good morning. More than a dozen years have been buzzing about the European integration of Ukraine ..
  • KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 13 August 2013 09: 30 New
    +8
    In Ukraine, multi-vector politics turns into a weather vane! Much stronger than the wind blows ... and they fix their gaze. The behavioral psychology of state politicians and officials has not been established at all. They can be understood.
    В ЕС пойдешь...можно свой интерес получить...ведь от ЕС будут поступать кредиты...а их так хорошо научились пилить...со всех углов только и будет раздаваться "Пилите, ШУРА! Пилите!" ЭТО ХОРОШО! Правда для общего развития экономии Украины это будет очень плохо...Электорат может и не понять распилы чиновников и политиков... А там - прощай доходное место! А ЭТО УЖЕ ОЧЕНЬ ПЛОХО!

    В ТС вступишь...там кредитов будет меньше...наоборот в Украину придут КАПИТАЛЫ - российские и казахские с белорусскими ... а это может привести к утере частной собственности на "заводы и пароходы" в виду их низкой капитализации... ЭТО СОВСЕМ ПЛОХО! Но значительно вырастет в таком варианте ВВП...поднимется уровень жизни народа...электорат будет доволен и на следующих выборах поддержит...значит можно сохранить свой пост...вот только он уже будет не такой доходный! А ЭТО ОЧЕНЬ ХОРОШО!
    So the Ukrainian elite thinks - which way to go ... and even more thinks ... how to combine the advantages of these two directions ... Hence the weather vane in front of the elite ... and a broken trough among the people.
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 August 2013 12: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: KazaK Bo
      In Ukraine, multi-vector politics turns into a weather vane! Much stronger than the wind blows ... and they fix their gaze.

      Some of the export-import flows of Ukraine are oriented to the EU, some to the CU + the geographical position of the bridge between the East and the West, although these transit wagons on the territory of Ukraine smashed all the roads .. crying
      There is no way the final choice can be made so as not to lose something, but on the other hand there are barriers, duties, it will not be possible to sit on 2 chairs further, because this condition was put forward in Moscow and Brussels or there or there ..
      A free trade zone with the EU and association with the CU is not real at the same time because goods will then get to these markets through Ukraine, bypassing duties, and will go for it ..
      This fall and the summit in Vilnius will put everything in its place, they won’t sign it, so it will be like the NATO MAP. the meal went that way .. winked
  • Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 13 August 2013 09: 40 New
    +8
    To expect that now the Ukrainian authorities, the Ukrainian elite will bring Ukraine into the CU, unite the country with Russia - this is the same as during the Great Patriotic War to expect that the Ukrainian Gauleiters, Ukrainian policemen would suddenly take the side of the Soviet Army, send their German occupying chiefs away , the German army and begin to fight against them. This is not real.

    At the same time, after all, even then Ukrainian Gauleiters and policemen (as now the Ukrainian authorities and the elite) stood, not just stood, but diligently served those who occupied Ukraine, who destroyed the Ukrainian people, Ukrainian industry and any freedom of the Ukrainian maloros man.
    1. saag
      saag 13 August 2013 17: 15 New
      +1
      Romanians did so in 1944, they were more sober-minded :-)
  • Andrew 447
    Andrew 447 13 August 2013 09: 45 New
    +4
    "Невеста" пытается пофлиртовать с двумя "женихами"? Это может закончиться шведским "бутербродом" recourse And it’s not easier for the people.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 13 August 2013 12: 04 New
      -5
      Это ты про взаимоотношения России с Китаем и США? И с ЕС, Индией,Бразилией и рядом "женихов" помельче?
      1. xan
        xan 13 August 2013 13: 16 New
        +1
        what, gladiator, hurt?
      2. Zopuhhh
        Zopuhhh 13 August 2013 16: 42 New
        0
        Does Ukraine have airborne forces?
  • sashka
    sashka 13 August 2013 10: 25 New
    +2
    A commercial on TV about cleaning the air in the toilet made in the form of the flag of Ukraine .. What’s more ... Not the toilet, but the cleaner .. Then there’s just nowhere ..
  • andru_007
    andru_007 13 August 2013 10: 31 New
    +8
    Quote: seasoned
    Andrey (Kars) is a patriot of his country, just like you are a patriot of Russia. What right do we Russians have to get into the politics of another sovereign state?

    From the Crimea. As a patriot of Ukraine, I consider us Ukraine, Russia, Belarus as a single people and a single space Russ. I am reuniting the country and the life of the next century!
    Threat. Of course, there are certain Natsiks in Ukraine, and in Russia there are enough marsh liberals, but I propose not to be tolerant, their opinion simply is not taken into account ...
  • andru_007
    andru_007 13 August 2013 10: 43 New
    +5
    Quote: mazepa
    EU accession now is like a muddy swamp - it's hard to say what will happen to Ukraine, but I am 100% sure that Ukraine will lose from joining the CU, Ukraine will again take the path after Bogdan Khmelnitsky. The Ukrainian people have endured a lot, I hope that we will not take this path again

    In a swamp actually drown. You can’t say what will happen to Ukraine in the EU, so don’t drag the country there.
    Bogdan Khmelnitsky also darted at one time. I rushed about, rushed about until I realized that there in the West they only need territory and clans for lords.
    He did the holy work united the divided people.
    Threat. It’s only a pity that every time (Yushchenko’s not counting), the people choosing the next president think that he is Bogdan Khmelnitsky, but in fact, under beautiful slogans, Mazepa comes.
  • sribnuu
    sribnuu 13 August 2013 10: 47 New
    0
    Kind of weird! In the Customs-Muddy Union with a bagog and a carrot (just say I want and please you), but in the EU you need to fulfill all the points of the rules. Lukashenko has already said his opinion about the vehicle.
    1. Dimonanet
      Dimonanet 13 August 2013 11: 55 New
      +4
      I think January 1, 2011, everything has changed !!!))))))
    2. Red Army man
      Red Army man 13 August 2013 14: 07 New
      +3
      And despite all the differences, TM took place. And, it seems to me, quite successfully (at least this is a significant step forward towards the integration of our countries).
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sribnuu
    sribnuu 13 August 2013 10: 58 New
    -24
    Quote: tarks
    What are my interests in the EU, can you tell?
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 13 August 2013 11: 02 New
      15
      EU propaganda ...

      Oh, that it’s me ... Propaganda after all happens only Kremlin, mother-in-law, shabby ... And this is just advertising. Yes?
      1. avt
        avt 13 August 2013 11: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
        After all, propaganda happens only in the Kremlin, in-law,

        Surkovskaya, although now you don’t even know which one. laughing
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 13 August 2013 12: 11 New
      +3
      You have a short memory. For 15 years you have been supplied with gas below the domestic Russian price, oil below the world price, fuel for nuclear power plants. Grants up to $ 60 billion are received. What has Europe given you?
      1,8 billion euros for bribing officials and subversive activities. Did something personally fall out of these 1,8 billion to you? I doubt it. But for all these years you paid for gas, electricity and gasoline cheaper than in Europe and much more. Oh, short memory of Ukrainians, they only remember the bad, but you didn’t understand for the good.
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 13 August 2013 23: 26 New
        0
        Quote: gecko
        You have a short memory. For 15 years you have been supplied with gas below the domestic Russian price, oil below the world price, fuel for nuclear power plants. Grants up to $ 60 billion
        You are wrong - the market price of gas and oil products in Ukraine is at the European level, but Julia knows where the price difference went.
    3. klimpopov
      klimpopov 13 August 2013 12: 21 New
      +6
      Not this way...
      Get under the EU banners))
      Especially cute from the right in the background, from the side of the orange booklet, two cuties look, edilia is straight European)))) laughing
    4. shark
      shark 13 August 2013 14: 07 New
      +7
      and you bought this cheap agitation? During the Second World War, the Germans scattered these over our trenches with a contented farmer near the low-end species of the hut.
      1. tarks
        tarks 13 August 2013 16: 54 New
        0
        One to one. Also the corresponding filmets. On mov, of course.
    5. tarks
      tarks 13 August 2013 16: 48 New
      0
      Witnesses of the EC?
  • Algor73
    Algor73 13 August 2013 11: 02 New
    +4
    In Ukraine, multi-vector politics depends on who pays. No matter how it was there, Ukraine would lose, with whomever it went, with the EU or with Russia. Putin’s policy is aimed not at rapprochement of our states, it must be admitted that the EU will not take Ukraine, they don’t know what to do with the new and old members. As noted, Putin wants Ukraine to crawl on its knees and ask for help in the Customs Union, hence the economic wars. But this will not happen - the people will be the last h..n to eat up without salt, and the Kermany’s country will bathe in gold, that's enough for them. For a long time no one pays any attention to the people. We must wait for a change of power. But in the political horizon, hopeful candidates are invisible.
  • grafrozow
    grafrozow 13 August 2013 11: 03 New
    +3
    The first ones say that Moscow is to blame for everything, which at one time mercilessly raised gas prices for Ukrainian consumers,
    They don’t just say how much Ukraine’s Neftegaz spins on the Russian gas price — where did Yulechka get the money from? The gas price is selected for the price of vodka, people are fooled, they say Russia bends prices. No, Ukraine needs to be in the TS, I don’t see an alternative.
  • MG42
    MG42 13 August 2013 12: 06 New
    +2
    Well, for the Ukrainian authorities, whom Russia frightened with an unexpected ban on the import of certain food products, and the European Union, saying that Ukraine might not be associated with it because of the prison term for ex-Prime Minister Tymoshenko, Payett’s proposal may turn out to be very even attractive. If Kiev can’t figure out who he is on the way from among the closest neighbors, then it’s time to pay attention to the overseas “groom”


    Алексей Володин видимо не совсем внимательно прочитал заявление нового американского посла >>>

    Главной задачей на посту посла США в Украине Джеффри Пайятт видит продвижение нашей страны в европейские институции. Об этом в интервью газете "Вести" заявил новый посол.

    - My main priority is to support the European choice of the Ukrainian people. I plan to pay special attention to this issue right up to the start of the Vilnius Summit, ”said Jeffrey Payatt. - The US Embassy continues to support democracy and human rights, economic development, improved health care and energy independence so that Ukraine finds its future in a free and peaceful Europe.


    And the ban on undefined food products, specifically chocolate from the ROSHEN factory, even though Poroshenko has a factory bought in Russia ..

    Onishchenko found benzopyrene in Ukrainian chocolate
    Российская санитарная служба ввела запрет на поставки в Россию продукции компании Roshen - одного из крупнейших производителей кондитерских изделий на Украине, сообщил "Интерфаксу" руководитель Роспотребнадзора, главный государственный санитарный врач РФ Геннадий Онищенко.

    "К сожалению, наши подозрения оправдались, о чем мы искренне сожалеем. Выявленные нарушения дают нам основания ставить вопрос о введении запрета на ввоз всей продукции данной фирмы, - сказал Онищенко. - Даны указания таможенным органам о запрете ввоза на территорию нашей страны кондитерских изделий компании Roshen.

    http://www.newsru.com/finance/29jul2013/roshen.html

    At the same time, other countries did not find benzopyrene in the chocolate of this company .. Kazakhstan, Moldova, etc.
    KAZAKHSTAN DO NOT FIND BENZAPIRENE IN ROSHEN CHOCOLATE
    http://tvrain.ru/articles/v_kazahstane_ne_nashli_benzapiren_v_shokolade_roshen_-
    349385 /
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 13 August 2013 12: 15 New
      +2
      And I personally have no doubt that he is not there, you just can’t urinate where you earn. Dashing trouble began, fasten your seat belts, I hope that Putin will go to the end, up to unpopular measures ...
      1. MG42
        MG42 13 August 2013 12: 31 New
        +9
        Quote: gecko
        And I personally have no doubt that he is not there, you just can’t urinate where you earn. Dashing trouble began, fasten your seat belts, I hope that Putin will go to the end, up to unpopular measures ...

        I buy this chocolate, one of the best in Ukraine, and exported products are even better in quality than in the domestic market, because there is better control ..
        Onishchenko can find anything, here’s politics because Poroshenko’s ardent Euro-integrator has hit his business ..
        А для власти украинской просто жёлтая карточка пока <футбол> из Москвы..
        Putin, given the recent cooling of relations with Fashington, could take decisive action and further restrict the import of Ukrainian goods, and even read the visa regime somewhere ..
        1. Zopuhhh
          Zopuhhh 13 August 2013 16: 48 New
          +1
          And rightly, brotherhood is brotherhood, but one must know the measure
  • xczszs
    xczszs 13 August 2013 12: 15 New
    0
    The other day, I accidentally stumbled upon a site for checking fines in the traffic police, and by the way there you can dispute and pay online. For example, for 2 days I challenged 3 fines for a total of about 17 rubles. try it yourself, here is the link to the service - http://krz.ch/mbaza
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 13 August 2013 12: 23 New
      +2
      shoot for spam!
  • zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 12: 33 New
    +6
    From the general trolling of Ukraine, the Kremlin authorities switched to targeted attacks on individual representatives and companies. Here two questions arise. The first is that maybe Putin decided to butt one of Ukraine’s main European integrators. And secondly, it may just be difficult for Russian companies to compete with good Roshenov chocolate and in this way they set up an anti-PR. What is more true ... I don’t know.
    I just know that there are a number of positions on which this will not happen, simply because Russia does not produce such. This concerns, first of all, heavy machine tools and mine equipment.

    Yes, and no matter what Russian commentators on the site say, any economic war between our countries is harmful to both sides.
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 August 2013 12: 44 New
      +3
      I wonder what Onishchenko will do with this factory? Has it been closed yet?

      Lipetsk confectionery factory ROSHEN

      398024, Russia,
      Lipetsk, Dovatora St., 3-a
      tel. +7 (4742) 77-26-52, 77-37-66
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 11 New
        0
        Quote: MG42
        Has it been closed yet?

        hardly ... it's jobs, taxes ...
      2. Whole
        Whole 13 August 2013 18: 12 New
        +1
        In addition to this factory in the suburb of Lipetsk, Sentsovo village, there is another Roshen factory, a large logistics center has been built in the village of Kosyrevka (6 km) from Lipetsk, another factory is being built there. Imagine how many people are working there. there are no complaints about the territory of Russia, only to Ukrainian factories producing products. Pure policy, only ordinary people suffer: panes are fighting, their forefathers are cracking. Before the visit of the GDP on the baptism of Rus, Onishchenko hinted as soon as the boss returned (on Sunday) on Monday the ban came out, is it strange it is not false? wink
    2. Sevastopol
      Sevastopol 13 August 2013 12: 53 New
      +1
      Russia is nothing more than a mosquito bite, and for Ukraine it can turn into collapse in the hard sense. And for a long time it was necessary to do this, and not look at the ridiculous attempts of Ukraine to fit in two chairs in the back.
      P.S. Roshenovskiy chocolate to be called good ... Hmm ... for the village club will probably, but no more.
      1. MG42
        MG42 13 August 2013 12: 56 New
        +4
        Quote: Sevastopolets
        P.S. Roshenovskiy chocolate to be called good ... Hmm ... probably for the village club, but no more

        Yes, normal chocolate, tasty and not expensive, better than conti ..
        And what is Swiss, so it is clearly more expensive ..
        1. xan
          xan 13 August 2013 13: 31 New
          -2
          Quote: MG42
          Quote: Sevastopolets
          P.S. Roshenovskiy chocolate to be called good ... Hmm ... probably for the village club, but no more

          Yes, normal chocolate, tasty and not expensive, better than conti ..
          And what is Swiss, so it is clearly more expensive ..

          Well, yes, to whom the bride mare
      2. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Sevastopolets
        P.S. Roshenovskiy chocolate to be called good ... Hmm ... for the village club will probably, but no more.

        What are you saying? Let's be objective.
        In Russia, sold with a bang! So there is a demand. So good. And here is Switzerland and Belgium, which I tried - Mr. - but.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. fedorovith
          fedorovith 18 August 2013 18: 28 New
          0
          Well, cheers, it’s strong, chocolate is one of the pluses of the price, we all understand, once it happened one way or another.
      3. Gecko
        Gecko 13 August 2013 16: 55 New
        0
        At several factories of the Ukrainian confectionery company Roshen announced reductions due to the ban on the import of its products into Russia. It is reported by Ukrinform.

        So, the director of the Vinnitsa factory, Alexander Bilyk, told the agency that about 400 people fall under the reduction. All of them, as expected, will be offered to switch to seasonal work in October - packing New Year's gifts. In the future, if the ban is lifted, they can be returned to their original places. “The facilities of the enterprise worked mainly on the Russian market. To reconfigure to release new types of products, we need time, ”Bilyk specified.

        At the Kremenchug confectionery factory, which is owned by Roshen, about 60 people can lose their jobs. According to Nikolai Zdoyma, head of the city’s economy department, in August the enterprise reduced its production plan by 25 percent.
    3. xan
      xan 13 August 2013 13: 26 New
      -2
      Quote: zmey_gadukin
      And secondly, it may just be difficult for Russian companies to compete with good Roshenov chocolate and in this way they set up an anti-PR.

      Roshen chocolate full of rubbish!
      a friend brought from Kiev, a box in the form of a map of Ukraine, could not eat.
      There, in my opinion, not even sugar is mixed.
      1. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 13: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: xan
        Roshen chocolate full of rubbish

        Yeah ... of course ... complete rubbish with a bang row
        come up with something more interesting in your desire to spit in Ukraine
        1. xan
          xan 14 August 2013 15: 57 New
          -1
          Quote: zmey_gadukin
          Yeah ... of course ... complete rubbish with a bang row
          come up with something more interesting in your desire to spit in Ukraine

          шустряк, откуда инфа про "на ура гребут"?
          with such statements you look like an advertising agent at best, and in truth a clown
          but about spitting in Ukraine - where do I have a finougre to you, cheap verbiage. What can one think of a country having such lawyers?
  • Sevastopol
    Sevastopol 13 August 2013 12: 36 New
    +4
    Многовекторность политики Украины - блеф, потому что никогда не было и не будет даже теоретических шансов для вступления в ЕС. Переговоры об интеграции в ЕС, и всякие нелепые "протоколы о намерениях", направлены со стороны властей Украины реально только на одно - получить от запада очередную порцию кредита, который частично тратится на нужды очередной "семьи", а частично на оттягивание дефолта.

    It so happened - and this suits absolutely all political forces in Ukraine, the difference between which is only that some more promote Ukrainian nationalism and others less. On this and play with the electorate. Nobody in their programs even touched on topics that really sore for people, such as miserable pensions, salaries and the lack of social guarantees and benefits.
    1. atos_kin
      atos_kin 13 August 2013 13: 30 New
      +2
      Multi-vector = weather vane!
  • Nod
    Nod 13 August 2013 13: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: Nod
    Frantic Putin's anti-Americanism, anti-Europeanism, imperial manners with the former republics of the USSR - the path to world political backyard.


    but in my opinion the opposite. one who does not concede to a super power and does not lick her ass with that super power, and at the moment it is the United States, will agree and reckon. no anti-americanism. There is a defense of their interests on the world stage. Interests - survival, trade, friends. and lately, Russia is closest to Syria than Ukraine. there are no stsikunov.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 13 August 2013 16: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Nod
      Interests - survival, trade, friends. and lately, Russia is closest to Syria than Ukraine. there are no stsikunov.
      Для начала-Россия и Украина пишутся с большой буквы.Насчет "сцыкунов" посмотри статистику сирийских беженцев в Европе. hi
  • andru_007
    andru_007 13 August 2013 13: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: Flood
    Behind the state is history; behind history is the deeds of ancestors. It's me that everyone has what they deserve

    said beautifully! well done!!! good
  • andru_007
    andru_007 13 August 2013 13: 53 New
    +8
    Quote: Kars
    ITS no longer. About robbed --- well, you exaggerate. I remember how we lived under the USSR, I remember how we lived in the 90s, and I live now. The USSR is clearly losing. Unless, of course, reject claims on the citizen of the Superpower.

    I also remember how they lived in the 80s. Yes, there were certain difficulties, but we ate healthy natural food, now we use a chemical cocktail. Children were taught friendship, mutual assistance - now teachers from Europe are trying to impose homosexuality. On duty, I sometimes go to various enterprises: I see empty workshops and cut-out equipment. I live in a village where at the end of the 80s there was a millionaire collective farm, there were about two thousand inhabitants, but there were attractions (ferris wheel, etc.) in the village, a sports complex with a swimming pool, a winery, a cannery, a kindergarten with a pool and a winter garden, a cafe built a huge shopping center and so on. (I can list further). Now everything is collapsed, crazy money is needed to restore something.
    I am glad that it is you who live better now (and thank God), but my heart is contracting when I see grandmothers asking for alms at the crossings (not for this they fought and rebuilt the union, but these are our mothers).
    Yes, in the union there were few people living elegantly, but no one was in poverty, there was no such terrible stratification. Someone lived a little better, someone a little worse (I think this is normal), but most importantly, people were confident in the future.
    Yes Union, no matter how sorry. No. We state the fact. And now everything is not so smooth, but it's time to gather the country. It’s time to think about the future, thank God in the chaos of many voices, the sober thoughts of smart people are heard and, to my joy, they become more!
  • MG42
    MG42 13 August 2013 13: 54 New
    +3
    Something with the site problems started cannot be answered, the comment throws it at the beginning of the article .. recourse
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 13 August 2013 13: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: MG42
    Something with the site problems started cannot be answered, the comment throws it at the beginning of the article .. recourse

    Yes there are problems, why it is not clear yet request
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 August 2013 21: 34 New
      0
      Now everything is normal, maybe the advertisement freezes, this happens when the page is not loaded ..
  • Fastblast
    Fastblast 13 August 2013 13: 57 New
    -3
    Tell me, what are the types of vehicles in Ukraine?
    Any forecasts?
    Interested in a real plan for the development of the economy and not speculation.
    I can’t just find ...

    ps popamistam minus all =)

    ps.s. still interesting, what do you think, what reaction of the people should be during an economic war with a neighboring state, seasoned with abundant non-forest reviews about the citizens of that country towards which aggression is directed?
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 13 August 2013 16: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: Fastblast
      Tell me, what are the types of vehicles in Ukraine?
      Any forecasts?
      Прогнозы есть-см.картинку.не забывайте,что вступление Украины в ТС подразумевает не только что-то получать,но и что- то отдавать,игры в "одни ворота" не получится. wassat
      1. Fastblast
        Fastblast 13 August 2013 16: 51 New
        +2
        funny))

        Знаете, на счет "отдавать" и "ворот", я всё прекрасно понимаю и не стал бы заниматься самообманом.

        But in fact, we have little information about the TS and its plans, accessible and transparent to most.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 13 August 2013 22: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Fastblast
          But in fact, we have little information about the TS and its plans, accessible and transparent to most.
          So, the CU does not have specific normative acts, all in general terms, such as the CIS Security Council. But it’s necessary to enter into it, and to develop the charter jointly, to move it, it doesn’t flow under a lying stone, enough sand to each other in Zh.O. rash, sooner or later, but still we will come to unity, life will force. The sooner the better. The Nazi parades, like the gay foam parades on the surface, are today and tomorrow the trace has gone cold.
    2. Zopuhhh
      Zopuhhh 13 August 2013 17: 08 New
      +1
      Counter-question, where can I read about the EU plans for Ukraine?

      Why any development plans for what is not?

      Не хотите в ТС, да ради Бога, только не надо потом по лицу "братские" сопли размазывать и напраслину на Россию возводить...
      1. Fastblast
        Fastblast 13 August 2013 17: 22 New
        +3
        Through my message, do you appeal to the people of Ukraine or to me personally?
        I can not understand)

        If to me, then I see joining the TS as a more rational choice and the most economically profitable one.

        But in general, I wanted to convey the idea that the emotional attacks of Russians interspersed with popol pain only bring a destructive relationship between simple citizens of our countries.

        Hope for understanding.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 13 August 2013 22: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Fastblast
          But in general, I wanted to convey the idea that the emotional attacks of Russians interspersed with popol pain only bring a destructive relationship between simple citizens of our countries.
          Right to the point, besides Bandera there were Kosheva, Kovpak, Chaplin, the defense of Odessa, Sevastopol ...
  • tarks
    tarks 13 August 2013 14: 02 New
    0
    And no one has ever met with a theoretical justification for the existence of conditions for the independence of the state in general?
    Type: In order for the state to be independent -
    you must: 1) ... 2) ... n)
    enough: 1) ... 2) ... n)
    And at the end - tdd.
  • morpogr
    morpogr 13 August 2013 14: 08 New
    +3
    Dear Ukrainians, this whole game is for you to open your market to European goods, to kill your industry in order to remove your competitors, and to put on the sweet spot the power that is accountable to the European Union in all matters. Do you want to be a colony?
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 August 2013 17: 13 New
      -4
      Slovenia, Czech Republic, Poland, etc. all said the same thing.
      Strange, none of them are fleeing from the EU, and the lineup for accession is only growing. What can not be said about the CU, can someone explain why
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 13 August 2013 23: 05 New
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Slovenia, Czech Republic, Poland, etc. all said the same thing.
        Strange, none of them are fleeing from the EU, and the lineup for accession is only growing. What can not be said about the CU, can someone explain why
        Read the story, these countries didn’t have anything in common with Russia, the VD wasn’t in trouble. Poland, like the province of the Russian Empire, didn’t bring anything but a headache. You can only wish them a wind in the back.
      2. Don
        Don 15 August 2013 15: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Strange, none of them are fleeing from the EU, and the lineup for accession is only growing. What can not be said about the CU, can someone explain why

        You have a strange concept. Queue or not. EU and TS is that a store? Here, for each country, you need to look separately, all economic components. And everything in the EU is right in line. And the fact that Great Britain and Greece are already considering leaving ?! The Russian Federation, the BR and Kazakhstan are 50% of Ukraine’s exports, the abolition of customs duties will give significant revenue to industries working with the CU. And what will the EU give? Our products will not stand the competition in the EU and we will simply turn into a market for goods from Germany, France, and Holland. This will especially hit engineering.
        1. atalef
          atalef 15 August 2013 17: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Don
          And the fact that Great Britain and Greece are already considering leaving ?!

          The UK has its own currency, and Greece clings with all its might to stay --- this is so general infa

          Quote: Don
          And what will the EU give? Our products will not stand the competition in the EU and we will simply turn into a market for goods from Germany, France, and Holland. This will especially hit engineering.

          I heard all the same words in 99 in the Czech Republic (when our local tour guide painted the horrors of the EU) if the Czech Republic enters. Well, and how in 2013? When was the last time in the Czech Republic? I almost every year. And only better and better.
  • MG42
    MG42 13 August 2013 14: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: xan
    Well, yes, to whom the bride mare

    По себе не судят товарищ <<хам>> repeat
  • tarks
    tarks 13 August 2013 14: 10 New
    0
    Future time is inappropriate here.
  • MG42
    MG42 13 August 2013 14: 12 New
    +3
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    hardly ... it's jobs, taxes

    And how does it work in Russia, if products are prohibited for import into the territory of the Russian Federation? She will not work at the warehouse for a long time ..
  • shark
    shark 13 August 2013 14: 14 New
    +3
    Ehh, it’s a pity for nature. Amers will ruin the south of Ukraine with their shales and get overseas..you. And then restore to us. And everything else, let go of this topic. Let them do what they want ... European integrators hr .. you. integrate to the banana republic., It would be better if they themselves remained ..
  • Tex
    Tex 13 August 2013 14: 15 New
    +4
    yeah, as one acquaintance of mine living in Beirut said, nothing sets the brains of street brawlers so much as the sound of an air raid. We still can’t divide it for granted, although a large percentage of Russian citizens come from Ukraine and Gazprom was created on the basis of the infrastructure of the former Kharkov expedition (Novy Urengoy), I’m silent about the origins (Kievan Rus, etc.) that Russia is Ukraine’s multinational country (read barrels of gunpowder, the same Yugoslavia), this time. Second, wherever Ukraine is, Russia should be profitable so that it is strong, and Belarus, if God forbid, the forecasts of some * prophets * homegrown about an imminent war with the same China will come true, who will come to the rescue ??
    1. saag
      saag 13 August 2013 17: 22 New
      +1
      "... я уж про истоки молчу(Киевская Русь и т.д."
      В том то вся и штука, что произносят "Киевская Русь" как нечто корневое, не задумываясь о том, что да Русь, но только Киевская, а истоки от Господина Великого Новгорода надо смотреть
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tarks
    tarks 13 August 2013 14: 17 New
    +1
    Generally speaking, it would be very strong to start indignant in Europe and Russia ...
    After all, all this rubbish will inevitably be in the water, which means - everywhere!
  • Gecko
    Gecko 13 August 2013 14: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    Quote: MG42
    Has it been closed yet?

    hardly ... it's jobs, taxes ...


    A drop in the sea. Or they can simply force various businesses to sell their business to competitors.
    1. MG42
      MG42 13 August 2013 21: 31 New
      +1
      A drop in the sea, and ships on the sea .. Well, maybe not just business, but the factory, technology will not be sold, there will be just other sweets ..
  • Curculum
    Curculum 13 August 2013 14: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    Let's be objective.

    For objectivity, the following data are required:
    The capacity of the Russian market for all types of confectionery in 2012 amounted to 3,287 million tons, forecasts for 2013 - an increase of 2-3% to 3,352-3,385 million tons.
    In 2012, Ukrainian confectioners delivered 119,1 thousand tons of chocolate products to the Russian market, gaining almost 413 million dollars.
    Imports from Ukraine in the structure of the Russian market for all kinds of confectionery products amount to about 155 thousand tons, which does not exceed 5% of the Russian market.
    Чистый импорт "Roshen" (без учета российского производства на "Ликонф" в Липецке) в структуре импорта из Украины составляет 9% (25 тыс тонн).
    Доля всей продукции "Roshen" на рынке России составляет 2%, на рынке шоколадной плитки - 1,1%, на рынке карамели - 11%.
    В ассортименте "Х5 Retail Group" продукция "Roshen" составляет единицы процентов, в частности, в сегменте кондитерских изделий - 4%. Сеть "О'Кей" закупает продукцию с российских фабрик "Roshen".
    "Roshen" выпускает около 200 видов кондитерских изделий, а общий объем продукции достигает 450 тыс тонн в год.

    Вывод очевиден: запрет на импорт ударил не по укро-производителям в целом, а конкретно по Порошенко. Для чего? Один из вариантов - заставить увеличить (расширить) производство на территории РФ. Подозреваю, что не за горами следующий удар по группе "Укрпроминвест" со стороны РФ. Политика же в этом случае - до одного места, чистая экономика.
    1. Whole
      Whole 13 August 2013 18: 29 New
      0
      Production is expanding, a logistics center was written above, and another factory is being completed. Clean policy.
      1. Curculum
        Curculum 14 August 2013 01: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Hel
        Production is expanding, a logistics center was written above, and another factory is being completed.

        Была бы политика - производство в Липецке давно бы принадлежало иным деятелям. Цитирую слова Порошенко: "Но только в первом квартале товарооборот между нашими странами упал на 20% за один год." - я не думаю, что он не умеет просчитывать наперёд, хотя бы на ход...
  • zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 14: 33 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    Quote: zmey_gadukin
    no, not seen.
    what you saw is exploration of a conventional, not shale, field.


    and you look ATTENTIVELY.

    familiarization information:
    http://oko-planet.su/politik/politiklist/194146-skaz-o-tom-kak-shell-na-ukraine-

    slancevyy-gaz-dobyval.html


    http://oko-planet.su/infonfoko/174891-shokiruyuschie-foto-s-pervyh-skvazhin-doby

    chi-slancevogo-gaza-v-ukraine-foto.html

    Yes, I looked. This only confirms my words.
    You use not verified information. This is not shale mining, but exploration of conventional gas.
  • dropout
    dropout 13 August 2013 14: 37 New
    +2
    An anecdote in the subject.


    - Granny, what’s stuck to the TV?
    - Yes, the series is so interesting: two men meet and meet. And I wonder how this will end - will they marry or not ...
    - And what kind of men?
    - Well, these ... How are they ... Putin and Yanukovych. Here, even the priest was invited to the last meeting!
  • zmey_gadukin
    zmey_gadukin 13 August 2013 14: 56 New
    +1
    Вывод очевиден: запрет на импорт ударил не по укро-производителям в целом, а конкретно по Порошенко. Для чего? Один из вариантов - заставить увеличить (расширить) производство на территории РФ. Подозреваю, что не за горами следующий удар по группе "Укрпроминвест" со стороны РФ. Политика же в этом случае - до одного места, чистая экономика.[/quote]

    Well, I encouraged to be objective in terms of quality
    and in your scenario, of course there is a point.
    But isn’t it easier to agree? Quietly so. At the negotiating table.
  • gura
    gura 13 August 2013 14: 57 New
    +2
    Из Минска. Уважаемый Andru 007. С грустью прочитал Ваш пост (если позволите, "крик души"). Что делать?.Кто виноват? Вечные русские вопросы. В "Вишневом саде" студент Петя с восторгом говорил - "Скоро вся Россия будет наш сад!". Начало 20 века. Что стало с этим садом через 15 лет и потом,, известно. Вот в этом "саду" и стоит сейчас ваша великая страна. И, мне думается, не знает - куда идти. И то,что происходит у вас теперь, восторгов у ваших друзей,(а это так), не вызывает! Ведь, не взирая на выгоднейшие цены на сырье, ваша экономика топчется на месте. Показатели за шесть месяцев, худшие за 13 лет. Рост - 0. Росстат может петь и другие песни, но вы знаете, что во время пожара там спасают потолок - источник информации. Гостили, неделю назад, родственники из Каширы (Подмосковье), тоже не восторг. Особеноо ЖКХ.Половина пенсии - коммуналка (4,5 тыс.). В глубинке - еще хуже. Вы знаете лучше меня. Поэтому все силы вам нужно направлять на социалку, а не на Олимпиады, футбольные чемпионаты мира и т. п. Расходы на социалку в России -12%. Штаты - 28%,Европа - 31%. При таком раскладе - обнищание населения победить трудно. Но, вашему единому и неделимому, по моему, не до этого - он с Обамой бодается! Терпите...
  • Conepatus
    Conepatus 13 August 2013 15: 34 New
    +1
    Януковичу 2 президенский срок не светит,мало того,в случае победы "помаранчевых".или "националистов",Яныку светит срок(туда и дорога).За время своего президенства,эта скотина прихватизировала и отобрала у других,все что могла.Убежать за границу может,но тут остануться предприятия.Продать?А кто купит ворованое?Просто бросить-жаба давит.Вот эта козляра и мечеться.
    I am more than sure that Russia will offer Yanyk guarantees of preserving property and some sort of high post, and Yanyk will pull Ukraine towards unification with Russia. In all ways, he will pull, he will spit on any laws and opinions, because your own money is more expensive. for the president.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 13 August 2013 15: 35 New
    +2
    Тут всё просто и старо, как мир. Как дьявол "развёл" Еву? Он ей сказал, что станете, как Бог... и она повелась, и Адам вслед за ней. Результат известен.
    Then brains were sprinkled about a certain nation separate from the Russians and completely exclusive - the Ukrainians, and even lied with three boxes about Kiev, if not a Russian city. And be led like Eve. The result is known for earlier.
    Как будучи ослеплёнными своей исключительности увидеть грубую "разводку" запада на разделение монолита Россия на части, чтобы поработить по частям. Разделяй и властвуй. Или, можно ли съесть слона? Можно, по кусочкам.
    I must say what they do.
    1. scorpiosys
      scorpiosys 13 August 2013 22: 05 New
      +1
      Yes, the enemy does not sleep, the enemy does not sleep, but does everything to bring the ruler of the whole Earth to the throne of their god - Satan. This is their main goal, everything else is just a means to achieve it.