Military Review

The baptism of Russia - the beginning and the foundation of the Russian state

335
This year, the Russian Orthodox Church and the entire Russian World celebrates the date of the 1025 anniversary of the Baptism of Russia - the key moment stories Russia. This article is written in simple and understandable language and is intended to tell about the fate of Saint Prince Vladimir - the Baptist of Russia and the benefits that Baptism brought to the entire emerging Russian state.





The adoption of Christianity by the holy Prince Vladimir, the baptism of the Russian people by him is a feat equal to the feat of the holy apostles, therefore the Holy Church calls the holy prince equal to the apostles.

The grandson of the holy Princess Equal-to-the-Apostles Olga, in his youth Prince Vladimir was a fierce pagan, a cruel warrior, a lover of women and wine. His miraculous transformation into the holy ruler of Russia is even more surprising.

The beginning of the miraculous change was the tragic episode of the death of the first Slavic martyrs for Christ. The pagan custom demanded from the ruler a bloody sacrifice to the Slavic deity Perun after a victorious campaign against the Yatvägi. A lot was cast, which fell on a boy named John. His father Theodore refused to betray his son, declaring his Christianity. An angry mob brutally killed father and son, who became the first martyrs of Russia.
While dying, the martyr Theodor said: “You are not gods, but you have a tree now, but tomorrow they will rot ... God is one, who created heaven and earth, stars and the moon, and the sun, and man” [1].

The bloody sacrifice made a deep impression on the prince, becoming one of the reasons for finding a new faith.

As a wise politician, the prince understood that the wildness of paganism had outlived its age. Raught behavior, the lack of unity of people, every tribe, every kind of which worshiped their deities, cannot bring the Slavs the necessary power. The prince had already tried to rally the people, having carried out a reform of paganism, calling for believing in the idols set on Kiev hill. Nothing happened. Human blood has not given a solid foundation to the Kiev state. Modern realities demanded cohesion and high morale of citizens. Then the prince sends ambassadors to all large states bordering Kievan Rus.

The ambassadors from Khazaria arrived - the Khazar rulers-Jews. The prince asked them about the fate of the state of Israel. Upon learning of his death, Vladimir refused to accept Judaism.

The prince rejected the offer to accept Islam, because this belief forbids drinking alcohol and eating pork, and fat and low alcohol drinks are the basis of food in military campaigns of the Slavic state.

Prince Vladimir rejected Latin Christianity, trusting in the wisdom and political instinct of Grandma Olga, whom he and his army revered as the wisest of women.

Greek Christianity attracted princely ambassadors with the orderliness and beauty of divine services, magnificent architecture and art. At the reception the monk preacher showed the prince an icon depicting the Last Judgment. The sad fate of sinners and the eternal joy of the righteous left a deep mark on the soul of the future saint.

The fact that the holy princess Olga was a Christian also influenced the princely decision. The famous church historian, Professor Golubinsky, notes that the grandmother of Prince Vladimir, a woman of state of mind, accepts Christianity, including from state motives:

“The reference to the fact that Christianity became the faith of almost all the peoples of Europe and, in any case, the faith of the peoples between them is the best, is an indication that a strong movement towards it began, like other nations, between its own relatives (Varangians) could not act on Olga's mind, making it necessary for her to conclude that people have the best and faith should be the best ”[2].

The Byzantine Empire is a mighty ally, a state with a great culture, developed science and technology. It was only necessary to wait for the right moment to conclude a union and accept Christianity. Such a case presented itself soon.

In 987, Prince Vladimir renders military assistance to Byzantium in suppressing a military rebellion in exchange for the promise of baptism and marriage to the Emperor's daughter Anna. The cunning Greeks decided to deceive the prince. In response, he captures Chersonese - the ancient Black Sea port - the basis of Greek influence in the Black Sea region. Then the Emperor sends Anna to Chersonesos, wishing for a peaceful outcome of the conflict. The political opposition of Russia and Byzantium could cast a shadow on the adoption of Christianity. The Greeks tried to impose their power on all who were baptized, the Slavs tried to preserve their freedom.

Then the prince, by the will of God, loses his sight. This was a real shock, both for Vladimir and for his troops. A few days later, the Byzantine Princess Anna arrives in Chersonesos and advises her future husband to immediately accept Holy Baptism so that he can be healed from illness and be able to get married with her according to the Christian custom. At the time of the sacred Mystery, the prince regains his sight, not only physical, but also spiritual: the heart, full of cruelty, debauchery and love to drink, is reborn into the dwelling of the Holy Spirit.



Thus, the great holy Russia was born, clearing not only his soul from the pagan sinisterness, but also the soul of his people.

In 988, the most mass baptism of Slavs in the history of Russia took place on the bank of the Dnieper. The prince declared: “If someone does not come to the river tomorrow — be it rich, or poor, or beggar, or slave — then he will be my enemy” [3]. This meant that those who disagree with the princely will can collect their belongings and look for a new home in another state. However, the chronicler notes that the common people gladly accept the princely will: “When they heard this, the people went with joy, rejoicing and saying: If it were not good, our prince and the boyars would not accept it” [3].

After a short time, Kievan Rus was baptized.

Modern man is difficult to grasp the breadth and risk of this step. What is worth one mention of the chronicler that the idol of the main deity of the pagan pantheon of Perun did not dare to destroy before the eyes of yesterday's pagans, and publicly whipped up, cut down and allowed to sail with the flow, not allowing to pester.

These events - the Baptism of Russia and the overthrow of paganism became the beginning of the renewed Russian statehood. In the history of the state there will be many more dark pages, misfortunes, evil, but Russia will no longer be pagan.



Chroniclers - impartial witnesses of history will not hush up evil, but will denounce vice, with the help of God's Law call black black and white white. It is precisely the high morality brought to Russia by the faith of Christ, the constant special concern of God for people who believe in Him, the desire of the inhabitants of the Orthodox state to please God with all its might, became the foundation of the inviolability of the Russian state.

Becoming a Christian, the holy Prince Vladimir remained in the memory of the people of Vladimir "Red Sun" - the best ruler of Russia. By his example, he showed the people how to live.

Mercy to the subjects, constant alms to the poor, rich contributions to the welfare of the Holy Church, the construction of temples, reliable protection of the state, the expansion of its borders - all this attracted people to him.

The prince became so gracious that he imposed a ban on the death penalty for criminals. The crime rate has grown. Then the church authorities began to ask the ruler to return the death penalty in order to stop the evil.

At the age of about 60 years, which by the standards of those times was considered a very old age, Holy Prince Vladimir peacefully departed to the Lord.

His sacred remains were entrusted to the tomb of the Tithe Church, built in honor of the Assumption of the Most Holy Mother of God on Kiev Hill - the site of the murder of the first martyrs Theodore and his son John.

So, what gave Kievan Rus the adoption of the Christian faith? The answer to this question contains an academic history textbook of the Russian history department of Moscow State University. Lomonosov:

On a personal level, Christianity has put every person’s personality on a completely new quality level: “Christianity with its idea of ​​eternity of human life (mortal earthly life precedes eternal staying in heaven or hell of the human soul after his death) asserted the idea of ​​equality of people before God. According to the new religion, the way to paradise is open to both the rich nobleman and the commoner, depending on the honest fulfillment of their duties on earth. ”

At the level of society, Christianity has become a state forming religion and ideology:

“God's servant, the sovereign was, according to the Byzantine traditions, a fair judge in domestic affairs, and a valiant defender of the borders of the state. The adoption of Christianity strengthened the state power and territorial unity of Kievan Rus.

It was of great international importance, which consisted in the fact that Russia, having rejected primitive paganism, was now becoming equal to other Christian countries, ties with which had greatly expanded.

Finally, the adoption of Christianity played a large role in the development of Russian culture, which experienced the influence of Byzantine culture, through it, and ancient culture. ”

Sources and literature:
1. Holy Russia. Orthodox calendar for 2011 year with reading for every day. - M .: Russian Chronograph, 2010.
2. Prof. Golubinsky, E.Ye. History of the Russian Church. Quoted according to art. "The Death of Blessed Olha", the site of Orthodoxy.ru.
3. Tale of Time Years. www.abc-people.com
4. A. S. Orlov, V. A. Georgiev, N. G. Georgieva, T. A. Sivokhina, History of Russia from Ancient Times to the Present. Textbook. - M .: Prospectus, 1997.
Originator:
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  1. Vovka L.
    Vovka L. 28 July 2013 07: 02 New
    34
    All Christians happy holiday !!! God bless Holy Russia !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 28 July 2013 09: 50 New
      32
      The Russian state was formed long before the Baptism of Rus. This even follows from the annals of the Christian Nestor, who wrote about Novgorod Russia, which passed into Kievan Rus. And, after all, there was also the Azov-Black Sea Russia.

      However, Orthodoxy gradually, not immediately, became the spiritual foundation of the state, which held the people together over the vast territory into a single whole. Enemies then took a lot of effort to break apart a single church in hundreds of years and separate the Kiev and Galician metropolises. Galicians later bloody subjugated to Rome. And Kiev returned to the bosom of a single church.

      So the 1025th anniversary of the Baptism of Russia is a Holiday.

      And let those who wish, guess what would have happened had had the development of Russia been different, that would have been enough for a thousand years.
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 13: 21 New
        +2
        "Chroniclers - impartial witnesses to history, will not hush up evil, but will denounce vice, using the Law of God to call black black and white white. It is the high morality brought by Russia by the faith of Christ, the constant special care of God for people who believe in Him, the desire of the Orthodox states to please God with all their might became the foundation of the inviolability of the Russian state. " - you can’t say more precisely! Happy holiday to all!
        1. 755962
          755962 28 July 2013 17: 55 New
          11
          Once upon a time, 10 Commandments were enough for people ...
          Believe in the only God
          Do not create idols for yourself.
          Do not take God's name in vain
          Remember the day off.
          Honor your parents.
          Thou shalt not kill.
          Do not commit adultery.
          Do not steal.
          Do not lie.
          Do not envy.


          And yet, oddly enough, WORKED !!!

          Now there are a lot of Laws, where sometimes some contradict others ... sadly.

          In general, before people watched the Canons, and only after a while. Began to live according to secular laws. That is, what was beyond the understanding of the Canon. And off it went.
          Happy All Orthodox Christians!
          God bless you!
          1. rereture
            rereture 28 July 2013 17: 59 New
            +4
            Read the truth of Yaroslav, there are not only 10 commandments.
            1. dominatus
              dominatus 28 July 2013 22: 45 New
              -1
              Russian Truth is an example of legalized prince racket. If you read it, you would agree with me. "Truth" was not there for a penny.
              Typical pricelist of royalties.
        2. valerii41
          valerii41 28 July 2013 19: 38 New
          0
          Pan Ruslan, Belief in God, I have never been a teacher of such subtle matter, just a listener
      2. Stalinets
        Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 09 New
        +2
        Orthodoxy - yes, but Christianity is unlikely ..
    3. Arkan
      Arkan 28 July 2013 19: 36 New
      +9
      According to The Tale of Bygone Years, Vladimir did not listen to various proposals for the adoption of faith, but he himself sent out embassies to neighbors, and from what sources the author took the opposite is not clear. Yes, the process of baptism of Russia itself was not as fast and harmless as it seems to the author ... But how however it is, it is part of our story.
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. radio operator
        radio operator 29 July 2013 08: 49 New
        +5
        Andrei Yurievich, they crucified the humanized God, and what, a thousand years is not an indicator for true faith? Or do you have an indicator of 70-years of godlessness?
        Liberals of all stripes have always tried to destroy Orthodoxy and the Russian nation.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 29 July 2013 20: 19 New
          +1
          Yes, I do not understand how an adult can believe in fairy tales! I am not a believer, but this does not mean that I am an enemy of the people!
          1. radio operator
            radio operator 5 August 2013 09: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: Andrew Y.
            Yes, I do not understand how an adult can believe in fairy tales! I am not a believer, but this does not mean that I am an enemy of the people!

            This is not a fairy tale.
            These are the same laws of our lives as physical laws.
            Believers try to live with an eye on these laws, unbelievers neglect these laws. That's all.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 5 August 2013 12: 48 New
              0
              Quote: radio operator
              Believers try to live with an eye on these laws, unbelievers neglect these laws. That's all.

              Here the key word is “try,” believers violate the laws no less than the rest, and they violate the laws of their faith as easily as secular laws.
              1. radio operator
                radio operator 5 August 2013 14: 41 New
                +2
                Quote: Setrac
                the key word is “try,” believers violate the laws no less than the rest, and they violate the laws of their faith as easily as secular laws.

                By and large, only one was able to keep all the commandments from those who lived and still live, this is Christ. Therefore, he had and has such a right to urge others to observe them.
                All the others, including Sergius of Radonezh, Seraphim of Sarov, us and others, cannot boast of this. All to one degree or another violate the commandments, i.e. sin. Another thing to strive for.
                We must try to force ourselves and ask God for help. The progressive movement towards Good, at least in a small increment, is important.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. George
    George 28 July 2013 07: 30 New
    43
    As a wise politician, the prince understood that the savagery of paganism had outlived its age. Rampant behavior, lack of unity of people

    How strange, Svyatoslav led the wild, rampant and fragmented Slavs into military campaigns, and won brilliant victories. And the version of the bloody sacrifice that prompted the prince (a warrior raised by warriors) to change his religion, looks in my eyes, to put it mildly untruthfully.
    1. smile
      smile 28 July 2013 13: 50 New
      23
      George
      That's right. Article = blessed tale. Of course, today is a big holiday, of course, Orthodoxy is a state-forming religion that rallied the Russians and has a great impact on the mentality .... But it was the "impartial chroniclers" who perverted our history by painting how dark and wild we were, until it illuminated us, uncultured, Christianity way ...
      I repeat - I am a supporter of Orthodoxy, and undoubtedly articles on such topics are needed .... but these should be exactly the articles in which there will be serious information, and not a simple set of fairy tales expiring in molasses ... The article is a huge minus ...
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 29 July 2013 00: 14 New
        +5
        I have nothing against Pravoslavia, people believe in themselves - and okay! But what the modern priests get up to - just a mug !!!
        "The representative of the Navy:" From next year, Neptune, mermaids, devils and other underwater scum that previously invariably accompanied naval holidays, will be on them persona non grata. "

        Representatives of the Russian Orthodox Church, who came to a naval holiday in Sevastopol after events on the occasion of the 1025th anniversary of the baptism of Rus that took place in Kherson, asked for no more calling Neptune with mermaids for military celebrations.

        Navy representative: "It is difficult to disagree with our guests, who today very delicately expressed the opinion that pagan characters who were absent during the Flood aboard Noah's Ark did not have a place at the festival of the Orthodox naval army."
        Well it is! Medieval!
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 30 July 2013 00: 04 New
          +1
          And it seems to me absurd and medieval - when seasoned communists, atheists and materialists, played Neptune, mermaids and devils. Well, is not it a perversion? From childhood, I did not understand and did not like this so-called “holiday of Neptune”, the “holiday” incomprehensible to the USSR and its character. Red proletarians and the Greek pantheon in one bottle ... some kind of Middle Ages
      2. Furnace driver
        Furnace driver 1 August 2013 13: 55 New
        0
        Quote: smile
        I repeat - I am a supporter of Orthodoxy, and undoubtedly articles on such topics are needed .... but these should be exactly the articles in which there will be serious information, and not a simple set of fairy tales expiring in molasses ... The article is a huge minus ...
        remarkably said.
    2. sashka
      sashka 29 July 2013 03: 07 New
      +2
      "The theme is as relevant as ever. In whom and WHAT to believe." There is no faith in the patriarch with the clock and dust that covered his books, worth 20 million, in the apartment that belongs to his sister "(Gundyaev, good advertisement) And he teaches us how live .., It is untrue that "EVERYTHING looks like ... We" draw a picture and you need to "believe" in it Without looking back .. Agree that this is at least Strange .. Why and Why? Is there a question? There are no other opinions and cannot be .. But I am Russian and not baptized .. What to do, how to live ??
      Here’s some kind of horror .. Not under the hood. This is horror for the "power" ..
      1. radio operator
        radio operator 29 July 2013 09: 15 New
        -7
        Quote: Sasha
        (Gundyaev, good advertisement) And he teaches us how to live .., It is untrue that "EVERYTHING looks ... We" draw a picture and you need to "believe" in it Without looking back ..

        If Patriarch Kirill is so bad, then why is he accepted by the Emperor of Japan Akihito, who does not accept politicians, and especially people with a bad reputation. So either your liberal sources are incorrect, or the Japanese services are working shitty, without discerning a swindler in the Patriarch.
        It seems to me that the Japanese are doing their job in good faith.
        Quote: Sasha
        But I'm Russian and not baptized .. What to do, how to live ??

        And before the revolution in Russia there were Westerners and Slavophiles. The former, usually atheists, were adherents of European values, the latter, deeply religious people, were convinced that Russia had its own, special way of development. Russians, generally God's chosen people, they are sure.
        So no wonder. You are a typical westerner.
        1. Slav
          Slav 29 July 2013 11: 46 New
          +4
          Quote: radio operator
          If Patriarch Kirill is so bad, then why is he accepted by the Emperor of Japan Akihito, who does not accept politicians, and especially people with a bad reputation. So either your liberal sources are incorrect, or the Japanese services are working shitty, without discerning a swindler in the Patriarch.
          It seems to me that the Japanese are doing their job in good faith.

          That's right!
          And the Patriarch was received by the chairman of the Communist Party of China, who also does not accept people with a dubious reputation.
      2. Svobodny
        29 July 2013 09: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Sasha
        No faith to the patriarch with a clock

        Listen, dear! Nobody draws “pictures” for you. Do not like it - do not read the article. Get on. Leave your emotions. You yourself correctly said:
        Quote: Sasha
        There must be peace in my head .. And then there will be no other problems ...

        Leave the Patriarch and his watch alone. Take care of yourself.

        Best regards
      3. azkolt
        azkolt 29 July 2013 18: 14 New
        +7
        Personally, all this hype around the Patriarch, so sharply raised, only made it clear how he was interfering with this liberal party. "I was told, I believed, they repeated to me, I doubted." Moreover, for those who are not in the subject, the attack itself began exactly after he opposed the fag. Think for yourself.
    3. azkolt
      azkolt 29 July 2013 18: 09 New
      +1
      Svyatoslav led the Slavs on a campaign, and before that Russia was a vassal of the Khazar Khaganate and paid tribute in blood. Yes, and the campaign was possible only with the support of Byzantium. By the way, Svyatoslav himself did not accept Christianity only because his squad was recruited in the northern regions, where Orthodoxy not yet reached. He said to Olga: "The squad will not understand." By the way, and after the defeat of Svyatoslav Khazaria, Jewish economic influence continued until the expulsion of them by Prince Vladimir Monomakh. As for the reason that made Vladimir adopt Christianity, then of course this could be one of the reasons, but not the main one. But the fact that Vladimir has changed dramatically after baptism and for the better
      1. Hort
        Hort 30 July 2013 07: 02 New
        +1
        Svyatoslav was a staunch pagan. He even had a conflict with Mother Princess Olga. And then several Christians were soaked in the campaign, considering them the culprits of failure.

        And by the way, there is a version that the Christian lobby in Kiev eventually merged Svyatoslav and bribed the Pechenegs and gave them information about when and where to wait for Svyatoslav and his squad
  4. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 28 July 2013 07: 48 New
    +7
    ORTHODOX, WITH HOLIDAY !!! KEEP US ALL THE LORD AND MISSION OF GOOD LUCK! hi
    1. sashka
      sashka 29 July 2013 03: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Valery Neon
      ORTHODOX, WITH HOLIDAY!


      Quote: Valery Neon
      KEEP US ALL THE LORD AND MISSION OF GOOD LUCK!

      These are completely different THINGS ... Do not fit together in any way ..
      Who is the Lord over you? There is only You .. And God and Luck are not standing nearby ... There are You and everything else .. There must be peace in my head .. And then there will be no other problems ...
    2. Svyatoslavovich
      Svyatoslavovich 29 July 2013 13: 36 New
      +1
      Good luck for lazy people and slaves, success is important to a person. Hope for God, but don’t be fooled.
  5. reserve
    reserve 28 July 2013 08: 02 New
    -21
    Interestingly, what does the baptism of Kievan Rus have to do with the Russian state? Especially if you recall the story (even in its Soviet interpretation).
    1. Vovka L.
      Vovka L. 28 July 2013 08: 29 New
      +8
      The center of Russia in the period from 882 to 1240 was in Kiev. The Russian state is the heiress of Russia.
    2. nnz226
      nnz226 28 July 2013 10: 44 New
      18
      The fact that of the 7 mi capitals of Russia, for some time one of them was located in Kiev, located on the territory of the current independent rhochland, does not mean that enth rohland has something to do with ancient Kiev and Rusi, except geographical. In the Russian and Little Russian languages, the noun RUS is the basis, and the adjective Kiev, just shows the place of the princely table and nothing more. Moreover, Kiev is far from the first capital of RUSI, before it the capitals were Ladoga and Veliky Novgorod, and only then at the 250 years the princely table was in Kiev. Then he moved to Vladimir, and further on in history.
      1. dominatus
        dominatus 28 July 2013 22: 50 New
        -10
        Do not talk nonsense. The state and the scattered, often warring tribal unions are far from the same thing.
        If you follow your logic, then in North America there was a state entity before the Europeans arrived.
        It is similarly obvious - like the North American Indians, the various tribal unions of the Eastern Slavs had their own different traditions, laws, gods, languages ​​(albeit similar). Nothing COMMON, between them and the more so the state was NOT.
        I am wrong? Then reasonably refute me.
      2. sashka
        sashka 29 July 2013 03: 37 New
        -2
        Why did you decide that there were no Russians before Novgorod? there were no others, but the Russians were ... If someone from not "ours" writes a similar "dregs." It is necessary to "create" the "correct" History Textbook .. But so far "no one is interested in going down." We will get a Guide to Managing Cranes ..
    3. seller trucks
      seller trucks 28 July 2013 11: 58 New
      16
      Quote: rezerv
      Kievan Rus


      I report that such a state did not exist, the term appeared around the middle of the XIX century, however, like Ukraine, which exists on 22 of the year
      1. waisson
        waisson 28 July 2013 19: 35 New
        0
        state terms but roots from where from kudo it all began it is time to recognize yes it is now the state of Ukraine
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 28 July 2013 19: 47 New
          0
          It was supposed to happen in a vast space.
          1. sashka
            sashka 29 July 2013 04: 02 New
            -1
            I wanted to argue. It wasn’t interesting. We got to Alaska and after that we, as always, were in the "fools" .. Maybe change the system?
    4. ratuld
      ratuld 28 July 2013 14: 34 New
      +1
      Oh !!! Well, you hit bro!
      Especially about interpretation !!! fellow
      From me such LUCK, it really took my breath away !!!
      ........................................
      God with her is your language impairment - in general, this is your business !!! You can invent and pervert as much as you like - if only they would not be completely brutalized.
      It is true.
      But with the name and self-name - here it’s sickly.
      What do you (I summarize) mean - when for example you call "Ukrainians" or how fashionable now is "ukrai" the inhabitants of the western regions of your so-called "state" ???
      On what grounds are these people called Ukrainians in your country - by citizenship or by origin?
      Or - what does the word "Rus" - "Russian" - "Rusky" - "Rusin" - "Rus voivodship" - "Rus principality" mean .... and so on.
      And how do you (I generalize again) understand the concept of an ethnos-nationality-nation ???
      What is statehood and succession of power ???
      Please.
      Enlighten.
      Bratello. smile
      1. reserve
        reserve 28 July 2013 17: 50 New
        -2
        We are all nationalists. I am a Ukrainian patriot, and my opponents are Russian patriots. Your arguments are based on emotions and elementary illiteracy. I have a bad habit of reading and thinking. Happy Navy, guys! Drink the third toast for those who are at sea, so that they always come home alive and healthy.
        1. valerii41
          valerii41 28 July 2013 18: 43 New
          +9
          Dear rezerv, you do not live in the 12th century; take maps of Ukraine and Russia to the Ural Mountains. Rivers have the same name, cities coincide; the names of princes coincide. From massacres, people left for the East, built cities, maintained their culture, mingled with the indigenous population, you have to be a young fool to get past a local beautiful girl without marrying her. Many Ukrainians live in the Far East and nobody calls them Muscovites. We have a single Slavic space, including the Poles, you cannot take a bad example from the elders and there is no return to the 12th century. Now is the time of science, economics, competition, if we do not live in this stream as dinosaurs die out. Since the Navy Day, the traditions that our ancestors laid down must be preserved and transmitted. Go to Wikipedia, walk through the regions of Russia, you will see how many Ukrainians are here
        2. ratuld
          ratuld 29 July 2013 03: 34 New
          0
          Nightmare !!!
          Probably need to quit bad habits.
          As for illiteracy, he studied and lived in Ukraine.
          That's where I just did not see what !!!
          In Lviv in 84 was at KVN.
          Children of Moscow kindergartens are more developed.
          As for nationalism-I'm generally non-Russian.
          And not a nationalist under any circumstances.
          But to read and listen to all that nonsense that is molded in the independent gardens of pseudo-statehood is simply unbearable.
    5. svp67
      svp67 28 July 2013 17: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: rezerv
      Interestingly, what does the baptism of Kievan Rus have to do with the Russian state? Especially if you recall the story (even in its Soviet interpretation).
      It seems not a stupid person, but stupidity froze ...
      It is known that the first episcopal departments, besides Kiev, were Novgorod, and also, possibly, Chernihiv and Vladimir-Volyn ...
    6. The comment was deleted.
  6. Grenz
    Grenz 28 July 2013 08: 16 New
    +4
    Quote from the article:"The prince rejected the proposal to accept Islam, because this faith forbids drinking alcohol and eating pork, and lard and low-alcohol drinks are the basis of food in the military campaigns of the Slavic state ...".
    Well, you might think that the Khazars who proposed Islam on military campaigns did not go. Why so simplify!
    Apparently, the reasons that prompted the adoption of Orthodoxy were deeper - the foundations of Orthodoxy were more consonant with the traditions and way of life of the Slavs, and not just the desire to get drunk before the battle.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 28 July 2013 08: 33 New
      +5
      The Khazars were Jews. Islam was offered by the Bulgars.
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 28 July 2013 12: 21 New
        +4
        No. Khazar khans accepted Judaism, this is true. The Khazar people, ethnic Turks, remained Tengrians, as the Tengrian character of all the burials of those times on the territory of the Khazars clearly indicate. Bulgars, too, by the way, are Turks, Tengrians who came from the Volga. Under pressure from the eastern tribes, the Bulgarians left their Volga pastures - part of the Bulgars went beyond the Black Sea, establishing Bulgaria, another part of the Bulgars, now called Tatars, went up the Volga.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 28 July 2013 12: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: Asan Ata
          Bulgars, too, by the way, are Turks, Tengrians who came from the Volga. Under pressure from the eastern tribes, the Bulgarians left their Volga pastures - part of the Bulgars went beyond the Black Sea, establishing Bulgaria, another part of the Bulgars, now called Tatars, went up the Volga.

          Is this the case in Kazakhstan?

          At the end of the 7th century, when not mythical "eastern tribes", but concrete Khazars were defeated Azov Bulgaria, there were no mention of any Türks and Turkic language in these places. At this time, the conquest by Turkic peoples of Central Asia itself was only just ending. On the Volga and further to the right bank, the Turkic language first appeared only with the Pechenegs. But in reality, they spoke in Turkic only with the Polovtsy, who actively entered into kinship with local peoples. So, for example, according to Gumilyov.

          It is not entirely accurate that those Bulgars who went to the Volga are now called Tatars. There were many local autochthonous tribes who also began to call themselves Bulgars when mixed.
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 28 July 2013 13: 20 New
            +2
            It is unambiguous to talk about whether the Bulgars were Turks or someone else is not worth it - the scientists themselves have not yet come to a definite opinion on this matter. But it is possible to assert with confidence that the present peoples who consider themselves descendants of the Bulgars - Tatars and Chuvashs - are Turkic-speaking.
            1. Furnace driver
              Furnace driver 1 August 2013 13: 54 New
              0
              Quote: Basileus
              But it is possible to assert with confidence that the present peoples who consider themselves descendants of the Bulgars - Tatars and Chuvashs - are Turkic-speaking.

              with full confidence, we can only say that they are partly descendants of the Volga Bulgaria, but they are not Türks. the fact that scientists belong to the Turkic-speaking group does not mean anything. Mordvin generally attributed to the Finno-Ugric ??? with what fright? if on their territory there are mainly Cossack villages with Russian names, and Marielites? why are they not the descendants of the Volga Bulgaria, although they also live on the territory when Mordovians are historically occupied by this very Bulgaria ...
              it is definitely impossible to say something if there are no facts in the complex, otherwise it is not so difficult to run into fiction and fairy tales.
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 1 August 2013 14: 21 New
                0
                I did not say that they are ethnically Türks. I just said that they are Turkic-speaking. Or is the Tatar language no longer Turkic?)
                1. Furnace driver
                  Furnace driver 1 August 2013 14: 32 New
                  0
                  I don’t know this language about Tatar, but Chuvash is in doubt, because I somehow learned it by talking with the Chuvash. mind you, I am not refuting the statement, but questioning it - these are completely different concepts.
                  1. Basileus
                    Basileus 1 August 2013 14: 59 New
                    0
                    Therefore, the Chuvash stands apart, because if it is Turkic, it split off very early. At the same time, however, he underwent some Kipchak influence.
                    1. Furnace driver
                      Furnace driver 2 August 2013 08: 06 New
                      0
                      hmm ... if you compare the traditions, for example, the Chuvash, Mordovians, Kreshen, Mariels have for example the same jewelry ... in fact, only the Tatars stand apart from the Central Volga region, here I completely agree with you.
                      1. Basileus
                        Basileus 2 August 2013 14: 03 New
                        0
                        Well, with the Mari and Mordovians it’s clear - they are Finno-Ugric. The Kryashens and Chuvashs were greatly influenced by their Christian neighbors — all the same Finno-Ugrians, so it turns out that they have a close culture. And the Tatars, Muslim Turks, here, of course, stand apart and have a language and intangible culture close to the Bashkir, and the material culture is quite original, although not without the influence of its neighbors.
                      2. Furnace driver
                        Furnace driver 5 August 2013 19: 12 New
                        0
                        I wouldn’t be so categorical: for example, their traditional jewelry is the same ... and I don’t observe non-Christian and non-Islamic influence in them
                      3. Basileus
                        Basileus 6 August 2013 07: 06 New
                        0
                        So I do not say that they are Christian or Muslim. They are Finno-Ugric. Just because of the close religion, the Kryaschians more often came into contact with the culture of the Finno-Ugric Christians, and not the Muslim Tatars.
                      4. Furnace driver
                        Furnace driver 6 August 2013 12: 29 New
                        0
                        and the Khuvashs and the Chuvashs and the Mordovians and Mariels (about the Tatars are not aware) have the same traditional ornaments, but our Karelians and Karelians from abroad (Finns) didn’t have such ornaments! The same traditional customs: for some of them, they are more clearly preserved, for others less, but all of them with a forest represent some kind of mystery: for Mariel, sacred groves, for example, as well as the Chuvash, Mordvinians, they prefer to spend it their festivities in the forests, although as such they, in contrast to mariels, have much less forests.

                        what I want to say by this, is that of all the Volga peoples located on the territory of historical Bulgaria, the Tatars are identified as something standing apart from all the others, which are mostly similar.
                        Apparently the Tatars as a new people came to these lands recently and therefore did not manage to find a common culture with the "local", or came a long time ago, but began to keep themselves apart in view of the severing of an alien culture (the first is most likely).

                        I understood your point of view, but I am forming my own on the basis of a system of non-contradictory facts, otherwise I wrote Mariel and Mordvins to the Finn-Ugrians ... although there is a historical fact of the resettlement of the Karelians by Peter the Russian lands up to the Volga region, but nonetheless the Russians are in the central the Karelian provinces are not spoken, and Karelians are becoming less and less. the influence of cultures was, but not to the extent that philologists prescribe, but historians behind them.
                      5. Basileus
                        Basileus 6 August 2013 14: 53 New
                        0
                        I hope you know what peoples are called Finno-Ugric, and what languages ​​do they speak?
                      6. Furnace driver
                        Furnace driver 6 August 2013 19: 16 New
                        0
                        What do you want to say with your question?
                      7. Basileus
                        Basileus 7 August 2013 07: 22 New
                        0
                        I understood your point of view, but I form my own on the basis of a system of non-contradictory facts, otherwise I wrote Mariel and Mordovians into Finn-Ugric peoples ...

                        From this quote I came up with the assumption that you have little idea who the Finno-Ugrians are.

                        Well, a little correction. Mari El is literally "the country of the Mari", and the people, respectively, are called Mari or Mari, but not Mariel.
                      8. Furnace driver
                        Furnace driver 7 August 2013 09: 22 New
                        0
                        can not worry - imagine.
                        similarly, with Mariels - in the know how someone calls whom.
                        and so: this habit of calling them that’s so old ... not because of a lack of knowledge, but because of irony ... it’s a joke - they say he ate Marie, I didn’t write through E, you could pay attention. and gauze is such a grass ... well, in general I will not go into details of communicating with friends from Mari El.
                        otherwise I’ll write how friendly we just didn’t call them, because so many associations you can come up with, and then some fanatic will be offended and say that I am engaged in inciting ethnic hatred.
                      9. Basileus
                        Basileus 7 August 2013 11: 33 New
                        0
                        Well then, why these completely left-wing discussions about Karelians?
                      10. Furnace driver
                        Furnace driver 7 August 2013 13: 30 New
                        0
                        and what is wrong with the Karelians?
                      11. Basileus
                        Basileus 9 August 2013 09: 18 New
                        0
                        And what do they have to do with it? Why did you remember them?
  • ratuld
    ratuld 28 July 2013 15: 17 New
    -4
    Dear !!! To put it mildly, your knowledge has lagged far behind life and completely copy the errors of the respected Lev Nikolayevich Gumilyov.
    In order not to bother with all sorts of self-names and phrases and other mistakes of chroniclers and later “researchers”, there are already long simple and CHEAP ways to determine the genetic history of the settlement of races and nationalities and their formation of states or proto-state formations.
    I don’t know who there where “left” or “came” - there are no written documents about this.
    I suspect that I have not personally reported to you and to me from "them."
    But - the fact that the Khazars and Vainakhs are one people and it is called JEWS - is understandable by a simple comparison of the genetic material of these people.
    So no one there seems to have taken anything about Judaism.
    As for the "Volga" Bulgars or Bashkirs - the comparison of their haplogroups and the haplogroups of the so-called "Russians" - does not reveal any special differences.
    In addition to a small admixture of Gapla "Kypchaks".
    So that’s all Ceretelli.
    Everything is sculpted.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 28 July 2013 19: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: ratuld
      But - the fact that the Khazars and Vainakhs are one people and it is called JEWS - is understandable by a simple comparison of the genetic material of these people.

      Oh, you probably have the results of a genetic examination in your bosom?
      How interesting ... Get out as soon as you can’t wait.
      1. valerii41
        valerii41 28 July 2013 19: 52 New
        0
        Pan Novodlom, I’m not doing genetics because of the lack of convolutions in my brains. I wear earned money for my bosom
      2. ratuld
        ratuld 29 July 2013 03: 36 New
        0
        No problem and in the bosom and throughout the Internet ....
        Read and enjoy !!! laughing
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 28 July 2013 13: 42 New
    0
    Read carefully, the Khazars allegedly offered Judaism.
  • azkolt
    azkolt 29 July 2013 18: 35 New
    +3
    Quote: Basileus
    The Khazars were Jews. Islam was offered by the Bulgars.

    Bulgars by that time were Christians. And Islamic merchants, who were probably in Kiev, could very well offer Islam.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 4 August 2013 18: 32 New
      0
      What kind of nonsense? Bulgarians from Thrace - were. But it is clear that this is about the Volga, who converted to Islam at the beginning of the XNUMXth century and did not abandon it until the conquest by the Mongols and mixing with the Kipchaks. And there already the whole horde was Islamized over time, although the same Polovtsy had a tendency towards Christianization before the Mongol invasion.

      Well, PVL to help you. There for some reason your Arabs are called Bulgars.
      In the year 6494 (986). The Bulgarians of the Mohammedan faith came, saying: “You, prince, are wise and sensible, but you don’t know the law, believe in our law and worship Mohammed”. And Vladimir asked: "What is your faith?" They answered: “We believe in God, and Mohammed teaches us this: to circumcise, not to eat pork, not to drink wine, but after death, he says, you can do fornication with your wives. Mohammed will give everyone seventy beautiful wives, and choose one of them the most beautiful, and lay on her the beauty of all; that will be his wife. Here, he says, one should indulge in all fornication. If anyone is poor in this world, then in that ”, and every other lie was spoken of, which is a shame to write about. Vladimir listened to them, because he himself loved wives and all fornication; therefore, he listened to them in full. But here was what he felt uncomfortable with: circumcision and abstinence from pork meat, and about drinking, on the contrary, he said: "Russia is a joy to drink: we cannot be without it."
  • bagpipe
    bagpipe 5 August 2013 22: 44 New
    0
    the Khozars were not Jews. they are a Turkic-speaking nomadic people. In their history there really was such a fact when part of the elite converted to Judaism, but this was not for long, as a result, this part was destroyed by its tribesmen.
    1. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 5 August 2013 22: 51 New
      0
      Yes, everything is clear, the first was a great Ukrainian, and all the others went from him already laughing
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 6 August 2013 07: 13 New
        0
        I see no reason for such a reaction. Indeed, not all Khazars were Jews - Judaism was accepted only by the elite, which, however, was not destroyed, but was very far from the people. Most of the population remained loyal either to the old pagan gods, or to Christianity / Islam - depending on what their ancestors believed.
  • Corneli
    Corneli 28 July 2013 12: 02 New
    +3
    Quote: grenz
    Well, you might think that the Khazars who proposed Islam on military campaigns did not go. Why so simplify!
    Apparently, the reasons that prompted the adoption of Orthodoxy were deeper - the foundations of Orthodoxy were more consonant with the traditions and way of life of the Slavs, and not just the desire to get drunk before the battle.

    If you take it purely grounded than Orthodoxy is more profitable than Catholicism. In Orthodoxy, the head of the church is the ruler, not the pope. This could play an important role in making the choice. Judaism and Islam are generally inconvenient for Slavic culture (it was even written above and Jews also do not eat pork)))
    P.S. drinks
    1. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 28 July 2013 12: 24 New
      +7
      As a rule, the choice was determined by politics. In this case, Byzantium was the largest rich neighbor of Russia, friendship with which promised many benefits.
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 28 July 2013 13: 13 New
        +3
        That’s right, that’s right. Almost all the neighbors of Russia accepted their religions, not least for political reasons - the Khazars, Poles, and Bulgars, and even, much later, Lithuania, did so.
  • baltika-18
    baltika-18 28 July 2013 12: 15 New
    +7
    Quote: grenz
    Quote from the article: "The prince rejected the proposal to accept Islam, because this faith forbids drinking alcohol and eating pork, and lard and low alcohol drinks are the basis of food in the military campaigns of the Slavic state ...".

    And you look at the list of used literature when writing the article by the authors. Then everything will be clear.
    Article minus. Typical retelling of tales.
    1. smile
      smile 28 July 2013 14: 05 New
      +7
      baltika-18
      Exactly. Moreover, tales designed for children of primary school age. The author didn’t even realize that his pearl (or rather, not his) about how Vladimir chose religion in accordance with his gastronomic tastes simply humiliates the prince and reduces him to a half-rational half-animal ... and what, then, is the price of such a choice, and to us everyone? The author is a good person, but not far from logs ... sorry ...
      Articles on Baptism are needed. The topic is interesting. But the author, in a corner, let him ponder over the meaning of what Orthodoxy does and what harm it does ... and to think better, he would still have a belt ....
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 28 July 2013 16: 30 New
        +5
        Quote: smile
        The author didn’t even realize that his pearl (or rather, not his) about how Vladimir chose religion in accordance with his gastronomic tastes simply humiliates the prince and reduces him to a half-rational half-animal ...

        Well, blame for this is not the author of this article, but the monk Nestor ... smile But in general - you are right, this episode in The Tale of Bygone Years catches your eye - it is difficult to imagine a saint choosing his faith ... Then I agree with Asan Ata - Prince Vladimir was primarily a politician who finished what Princess Olga began.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 July 2013 21: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Arkan
          You are right this episode in "Tales of Bygone Years" is striking

          The whole history of the “baptism of Rus” is striking, a jamb on a jamb.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 28 July 2013 21: 40 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            The whole history of the “baptism of Rus” is striking, a jamb on a jamb.

            Yes, although Nestor was not a Christian in the first generation, and his manuscripts were more than once “edited” by churchmen in the “Tale”, a real Vladimir is seen — a warrior and a politician, and not an “equal-apostle saint.” However, with his influence on Byzantium he could especially not bother with the propaganda and reliability of the "legends" ...
    2. George
      George 28 July 2013 23: 21 New
      0
      Quote: baltika-18
      Quote: grenz
      Quote from the article: "The prince rejected the proposal to accept Islam, because this faith forbids drinking alcohol and eating pork, and lard and low alcohol drinks are the basis of food in the military campaigns of the Slavic state ...".

      And you look at the list of used literature when writing the article by the authors. Then everything will be clear.
      Article minus. Typical retelling of tales.

      This is not the only point.
      4. A. S. Orlov, V. A. Georgiev, N. G. Georgieva, T. A. Sivokhina, History of Russia from Ancient Times to the Present. Textbook. - M .: Prospectus, 1997.

      What are children taught ?!
  • Basileus
    Basileus 28 July 2013 08: 24 New
    12
    From extreme to extreme. Recently there was an article that in Russia there was a developed state almost from the second millennium BC. Here the headline clearly hints at the lack of pre-Christian statehood in Russia.
    Well, the harm of paganism is also a big question - unbaptized Lithuania built a huge state before the 15th Eveka, the only obstacle to the creation of which was not paganism, but the militancy of the surrounding Christians. Svyatoslav was already remembered here. So the article is not bad regarding the holiday, but it is far from objective.
    1. knn54
      knn54 28 July 2013 10: 45 New
      +2
      -Radmir: So the article is not bad regarding the holiday, but it is far from objective.
      To you +. We celebrate the adoption (approval by Vladimir) of Christianity as the state / official religion of the state. Baptism took place much earlier.
      The Byzantine Patriarch Photius (District Epistle, 867.g) in particular declared "... they received the bishop and pastor, Michael Sirin and 6 bishops, with great zeal and diligence they meet Christian rites."
      And it seems that it was Askold who became the FIRST Christian martyr in Russia. And the center of the Christian diocese was transferred to Pereslavl-Zalessky, hence the inconsistencies.
      But this does not detract from the greatness of the holiday. Thanks to Orthodoxy, Russia rebelled after the Time of Troubles. And Peresvet, Ilya Muromets ... Now Orthodoxy does not allow us to completely scatter in different directions, despite the efforts of the sent sectarians.
      All with a Happy Holiday!
    2. nnz226
      nnz226 28 July 2013 10: 51 New
      10
      I agree! You might think that before the baptism of Russia, our ancestors rode along the branches! Although in the Scandinavian sagas of the 6 century, our country was already called Gardarika, that is, the country of cities. So it was very civilized (cities are a sign of civilization), in contrast to the wild places where sprat Limotrophs, who pretend to be "civilized peoples" (???), are now being made, although their ancestors lived in caves and burrows at that time, and all cities on their territories are non-existent, founded and built either by Russians or Western Europeans (some still argue who earlier started building: either the Danes - Tallinn, or the Russians - Kolyvan, for example, you can not mention Yuryev (Tartu) )
      1. ratuld
        ratuld 28 July 2013 15: 22 New
        -4
        Well done !!!
        It can be seen that it is not Ukrainian.
        God forgive your people. good
    3. Bigriver
      Bigriver 28 July 2013 14: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: Basileus

      Well, the harm of paganism is also a big question - unbaptized Lithuania built a huge state before the 15th Eveka, the only obstacle to the creation of which was not paganism, but the militancy of the surrounding Christians ...

      If you are about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania XIII-XVIII, then the kneading there was steep. There were Christians of both Western and Eastern persuasion. Judaism and Islam were widespread. Gentiles were in a strong minority.
      But the numerical majority, nevertheless, were Orthodox. This is not surprising. look at the eastern part of the ON: Polotsk, Smolensk, Toropets, Bryansk, Kursk, Chernihiv, Pereyaslavl, etc.
      1. rereture
        rereture 28 July 2013 17: 39 New
        0
        Quote: BigRiver
        ON: Polotsk, Smolensk, Toropets, Bryansk, Kursk, Chernihiv, Pereyaslavl


        These were our border territories, which were turned on, and from time immemorial they belonged to Russia.
        1. svp67
          svp67 28 July 2013 17: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: rereture
          These were our border territories, which were turned on, and from time immemorial they belonged to Russia.
          You specify what Russia, there are a lot of them - White, Black, Red, Gold, Silver, Kiev, Vladimir ... and more. Which one? And the fact that they moved to the ON, they did not cease to remain Russian, and the nobility was considered Russian, until the Popolitaya Speech began to pursue a policy of "embarrassment" ...
  • George
    George 28 July 2013 08: 59 New
    13
    On a personal level, Christianity has set the identity of each person to a completely new qualitative level: “Christianity, with its idea of ​​the eternity of human life (mortal earthly life precedes the eternal stay in man’s paradise or hell after his death), affirmed the idea of ​​equality of people before God.

    It is those who called (and call) themselves slaves of God, approved the idea of ​​equality, in contrast to the wild pagans, who claimed to be descendants of the Gods? Yes, and the trezzes of our ancestors with the burning of the body of the deceased, apparently had goals by no means pursuing the order of the soul’s transition to a new level. belay
    IMHO. It would be enough to just congratulate on a memorable date, why all these pearls, only spoiled everything.
    1. Vovka L.
      Vovka L. 28 July 2013 09: 10 New
      +2
      That's just the point, one could just congratulate the Christians, and not try to pour dirt on them in comments.
      why all these pearls, they just ruined everything.
      1. George
        George 28 July 2013 10: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Vovka L.
        That's just the point, one could just congratulate the Christians, and not try to pour dirt on them in comments.
        why all these pearls, they just ruined everything.

        It was possible, only I am an opponent of those "zadvigons" who are trying to introduce, using a significant event.
    2. Vovka L.
      Vovka L. 28 July 2013 09: 15 New
      -4
      By the way, you use the portrait of Gagarin as an avatar and you probably don’t even know that Gagarin was Orthodox.
      http://gagarin.ortox.ru/gagarin_i_pravoslavie
      1. George
        George 28 July 2013 10: 37 New
        +4
        Quote: Vovka L.
        By the way, you use the portrait of Gagarin as an avatar and you probably don’t even know that Gagarin was Orthodox.
        http://gagarin.ortox.ru/gagarin_i_pravoslavie

        So what ? I know a person whose portrait I use, not by his religious affiliation.
        Anyway, when they begin to cling to names and avatars, it seems that there are no arguments. Do not cling. Happy holiday.
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 28 July 2013 10: 56 New
        +1
        Even if Gagarin was baptized by his parents in infancy, I doubt that he wrote in the questionnaire - “a believer” (not those times) and hardly prayed before the start!
        1. svp67
          svp67 28 July 2013 10: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: nnz226
          and hardly prayed before the start!

          If the former is certain, then we will never know about the latter. I myself know that in stressful situations, when you have already done everything you could and you just have to wait - "take it out - it won't take it out", the prayer somehow quickly comes to mind, although you didn’t teach them when ...
          1. Ruslan_F38
            Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 13: 26 New
            +3
            Undoubtedly. Everyone needs a god, sooner or later!
        2. Vovka L.
          Vovka L. 28 July 2013 16: 16 New
          0
          How could he, in the “wrong times”, ask the Central Committee to restore the Cathedral of Christ the Savior? Not every believer could dare to ask the Central Committee for such a thing when the chief promised to show the last priest.
        3. ratuld
          ratuld 29 July 2013 04: 13 New
          +2
          It is more than ridiculous in the 21st century to talk about medieval obscurantism.
          You need to believe in science and progress.
          All the more so since Jesus Pantherovich Christ preached all about the same.
          Jews - by the way - but NOT TO YOU.
          YOU ARE HERE AND WHY ???
      3. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 28 July 2013 16: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Vovka L.
        By the way, you use the portrait of Gagarin as an avatar and you probably don’t even know that Gagarin was Orthodox.


        Who is Valentin Petrov? Is there reliable information, and not the words of Petrov himself, that he was friends with Gagarin and was an assistant professor of the Air Force Academy? I could not find any information about him, except for his unfounded allegations.
        1. Vovka L.
          Vovka L. 28 July 2013 17: 48 New
          -2
          That’s even Valentin Petrov’s come to your home, he will show you a fake one, you will say a fake, he will show a photo where he is with Gagarin, you will say photoshop, etc. Even if Gagarin tells you this in a dream, you won’t believe it.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 28 July 2013 19: 04 New
            +2
            I kind of didn’t drink with the Brudershaft with you, but oh well - you show me the photo where he is with Gagarin, for starters.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • tranzit
    tranzit 28 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +8
    Happy holiday to all wink
  • Grenz
    Grenz 28 July 2013 09: 29 New
    +3
    Quote: Basileus
    The Khazars were Jews. Islam was offered by the Bulgars.

    Yes, the essence does not change. And if the Khazars listened, it would become easier. How would we now reclaim Israel if we were Jews. Nevertheless, the prince thought about the future!
    But here is what I agree with you that before the adoption of Orthodoxy, Russia existed and had already formed laws (Vedas) and faith. That it is already forgotten.
  • DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 28 July 2013 09: 51 New
    14
    Excuse me for asking. Why the Greek Church, the Orthodox, Greek state, did not destroy the monuments to the “cursed” paganism. The school teaches the history of the ancient world. ancient Greece is studied very carefully. But why do we know very little about RUSSIA before Rurik? Why did priests destroy our entire pre-Christian history?
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 28 July 2013 10: 06 New
      -2
      But what is Rurik, the story is not pre-Christian? At what point did the history begin to be recorded, from that on did it begin. There are many sources from Russian chronicles to notes of Absk travelers, according to which you can create an idea of ​​the life of ancient Rus.
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 23 New
        -1
        By the way, during the “Red Sun” the entire written history was destroyed. What now to believe, hell knows.
    2. Bigriver
      Bigriver 28 July 2013 15: 01 New
      -1
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      ... But why do we know very little about RUSSIA before Rurik? Why did priests destroy our entire pre-Christian history?

      Because lazy and inquisitive. Research, monographs, historical works - a lot.
      I don’t want to read.
      But the priests have nothing to do with it.
      1. valerii41
        valerii41 9 August 2013 14: 23 New
        0
        Our history was destroyed and distorted by all sorts of jo, shvili, and yans who were sitting in the Kremlin. The main thing is to humiliate the Russian people by their own inability to defend themselves, to humiliate the Tatars by the absence of any culture and a high level of primitivism. At the same time, the brave, with high intellect, Georgians and Armenians, who have preserved a high culture, are glorified - this is a red thread of all Soviet history. Our Orthodox faith was destroyed, Dzhugashvili and Mikoyan. In 1885-86, by order of the Synod of the Orthodox Church, property was confiscated, schools of schools of the Armenian church for trying to stab him in Russia. After 17 years, Orthodoxy was cut out. From 42, Kremlin shvili and yans grabbed their heads and pulled out Orthodoxy with one hand held by the throat, the other had a knife to cut the throat
    3. svp67
      svp67 28 July 2013 15: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      Why did priests destroy our entire pre-Christian history?
      There, without priests, there were enough willing ...
      Take at least the beginning of the Romanov’s reign, in the very first months almost all state archives were destroyed, so that no one would know from what “rags to riches” ... But the monasteries did a lot to save history, at least for that section her, which began after the adoption of Christianity ... The word about Igor's regiment is known largely thanks to them.
  • svp67
    svp67 28 July 2013 10: 02 New
    +7
    The baptism of Russia - the beginning and the foundation of the Russian state
    Of course, I congratulate everyone on such a significant date, but I’d call the article “The Baptism of Russia - the Beginning of a New Way for the Development of the Russian State”. Russia even before these times had statehood and the Christian Orthodox path was not the only one that it could go.
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  • sashka
    sashka 28 July 2013 11: 34 New
    +9
    It’s all wrong .. Russia was before baptism .. And how it was “baptized” is known from school times and from the library. So it's not a fact that this is a "holiday"
    1. svp67
      svp67 28 July 2013 11: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: Sasha
      ..And how it was "baptized" is known from school times and from the library.
      And any revolution is violence, and the victors celebrate ...
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 25 New
        0
        And we all know well who is the "instrument of revolution" ...
    2. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 13: 32 New
      -13
      Quote: Sasha
      It’s all wrong .. Russia was before baptism .. And how it was “baptized” is known from school times and from the library. So it's not a fact that this is a "holiday"


      Russia was, but the foundations of spirituality and morality were laid by Christianity. So, this is a holiday regardless of whether you believe or not.
      1. svp67
        svp67 28 July 2013 13: 59 New
        +8
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        but the foundations of spirituality and morality were laid by Christianity


        Oh ... winked It wasn’t, it wasn’t, but the good uncle brought it ... How badly you think about our ancestors, we had everything before that, albeit somewhat differently. Otherwise, Orthodoxy would not have taken root with us. What happened to other religions.
        1. Ruslan_F38
          Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 14: 08 New
          -3
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          but the foundations of spirituality and morality were laid by Christianity


          Oh ... winked


          Don't you think so? What do you think? Of course it was, but not so clearly and thoroughly expressed, stated, explained if you like in Christianity. I don’t think badly about ancestors. I did not set cons.
          1. svp67
            svp67 28 July 2013 14: 16 New
            +6
            Quote: Ruslan_F38
            Don't you think so? What do you think?

            If our people did not have the foundations on which Orthodoxy fell like a grain on the ground, it would not have taken root ... After all, other religions, in particular Judaism and Islam at that time, also made attempts to penetrate our territory, but did not take root ...
            1. Ruslan_F38
              Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 15: 09 New
              -6
              Quote: svp67
              Quote: Ruslan_F38
              Don't you think so? What do you think?

              If our people did not have the foundations on which Orthodoxy fell like a grain on the ground, it would not have taken root ... After all, other religions, in particular Judaism and Islam at that time, also made attempts to penetrate our territory, but did not take root ...

              I agree. But the dominant role of Christianity in the "systematization" of these foundations and values ​​is impossible to deny.
              1. svp67
                svp67 28 July 2013 15: 14 New
                0
                Quote: Ruslan_F38
                But the dominant role of Christianity in the "systematization" of these foundations and values ​​is impossible to deny.
                I can’t argue with this, the clergy have done tremendous and painstaking work, but also the fundamental principles of national spirituality - the mentality of the nation should not be denied ...
              2. Hort
                Hort 30 July 2013 07: 37 New
                0
                yes what sort of systematization is there. Retold in a new way and that’s it. Well, why added.
                Generally speaking strictly speaking, Orthodoxy would not have taken root if it had not been intertwined with paganism. You don’t have to go far: the same Ilyin’s day is Perunov’s day.
            2. Stalinets
              Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 27 New
              +1
              But it did not take root. He was forcibly implanted. Very big blood.
              1. radio operator
                radio operator 29 July 2013 09: 32 New
                -3
                Quote: Stalinist
                But it did not take root. He was forcibly implanted. Very big blood.

                A typical liberal view of history. Not a single Soviet historian has claimed this.
            3. sashka
              sashka 29 July 2013 08: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: svp67
              it wouldn’t take root with us ... After all, other religions, in particular Judaism and Islam at that time, also made attempts to penetrate our territory, but did not take root ...

              Why is it ... They live and prosper fine .. Everything is normal and good. The main thing is not to "impose" and not to "climb" into the Soul. Everyone has her own ..
          2. smile
            smile 28 July 2013 14: 19 New
            +6
            Ruslan_F38
            Excuse me. can I answer.
            In my opinion, svp67 told you quite clearly that we had morality and morality and culture even before Christianity, although it was different. And if Orthodoxy would not be close to us, would not correspond to our mentality, it would not have taken root with us. like other religions ... well, is it not clear to you?
            1. Ruslan_F38
              Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 14: 56 New
              -5
              Quote: smile
              Ruslan_F38
              Excuse me. can I answer.
              In my opinion, svp67 told you quite clearly that we had morality and morality and culture even before Christianity, although it was different. And if Orthodoxy would not be close to us, would not correspond to our mentality, it would not have taken root with us. like other religions ... well, is it not clear to you?


              Well, if svp67 is impossible without lawyers ... but in general I said what I said, without Christianity there would have been no Russian state, this is the main religion of our country, these are the foundations of proper education, worldview, these are the rules and norms of normal, correct behavior in society, it’s good, finally, what are you against? And read carefully what I am writing about: "Of course it was, but not so clearly and thoroughly expressed, stated, explained if you like in Christianity. I don’t think badly about my ancestors." Or do you argue just for the sake of argument?
              1. smile
                smile 28 July 2013 15: 45 New
                10
                Ruslan_F38
                1. svp67 Does not know me and was not aware that I would fit into the discussion.
                2. This is a public discussion. everyone has the right to take part.
                3. I carefully read you and that’s why I remembered that you wrote that Christianity laid the foundations of morality and spirituality in the Russian people ... if you are able to understand what you are writing, then it will not be a secret for you that your phrase means which is because Christianity laid the foundation. then earlier this place was completely wasted .. the wind walked. It was this phrase of yours that distorted me and made me join the conversation. I was not going to argue with the rest. Yes, your further words partially neutralize the false statement. admitted at the beginning ... But, if you read my comment. to which they answered. You also noticed that I did not argue with you, but slightly clarified the position of my colleague, which I completely share (which he did very well without me) ... or do you argue just for the sake of the argument? If so, then for God's sake, but please, do not ascribe to me your habits - I do not really like this ... okay?
                1. Ruslan_F38
                  Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 18: 19 New
                  -6
                  Quote: smile
                  Ruslan_F38
                  1. svp67 Does not know me and was not aware that I would fit into the discussion.
                  2. This is a public discussion. everyone has the right to take part.
                  3. I carefully read you and that’s why I remembered that you wrote that Christianity laid the foundations of morality and spirituality in the Russian people ... if you are able to understand what you are writing, then it will not be a secret for you that your phrase means which is because Christianity laid the foundation. then earlier this place was completely wasted .. the wind walked. It was this phrase of yours that distorted me and made me join the conversation. I was not going to argue with the rest. Yes, your further words partially neutralize the false statement. admitted at the beginning ... But, if you read my comment. to which they answered. You also noticed that I did not argue with you, but slightly clarified the position of my colleague, which I completely share (which he did very well without me) ... or do you argue just for the sake of the argument? If so, then for God's sake, but please, do not ascribe to me your habits - I do not really like this ... okay?

                  What do my phrases mean, if you are not able to understand them, I know better, and the rest is your speculations and conclusions.
                  And in vain in your head. If you need to chew everything and you can not keep track of the thought, then do not meddle in the discussion, but silently smoke aside. Respect the opinions of others and learn to hear not only yourself. I advise all other unbelievers of nothing but my ego and my self to turn to the basics of the Christian religion, maybe this will help you understand the meaning of Christianity and become people.
                  1. rereture
                    rereture 28 July 2013 18: 24 New
                    +1
                    How many religious texts have you read?
                  2. smile
                    smile 28 July 2013 19: 00 New
                    +8
                    Ruslan_F38
                    :)))
                    You’re ridiculous ... :))) Here, honestly, even too lazy to answer you ...
                    Okay, I agree. that I’m not able to comprehend your brilliant thoughts :)) so be it ...
                    you ranked me as "unbelievers of nothing but your ego and your self" :))) let it be so, you clearly know better ...
                    your advice "to turn to the basics of the Christian religion, maybe this will help you understand the meaning of Christianity and become people" is strange, because if I am not a person, then in order for them to become I will have to go through hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection for turning into a person ... I won’t get there .. or I won’t live ... :)))
                    But seriously. then:
                    1. You are not able to hear other people's arguments and hear the opponent in general, about respect, generally I’m silent ... by the way, this is very characteristic, unfortunately, of fanatics. including religious ... I repeat, not normal believers. namely fanatics ..
                    2.Before you suggest someone to turn to the basics of religion, you should learn them yourself, your demonstrative non-thermism. which is expressed in the fact that you don’t even consider me a person is an antagonism of Christian humility ..
                    an attempt to start a dispute from scratch, too, as well as the fact that the sin of pride wrapped you in you :))) can you also characterize you as a stubborn person who is not able to admit that he was bullshitting, remember the beginning of the "dispute"? Remember. that essentially you didn’t object to me, made a scandal here, during which they recognized me as a non-human who is not able to understand your ingenious revelations ... :))) In principle, militant ignorance is an ordinary attribute of fanatics ... but to all there is a limit ... you may be familiar with the theory of Christianity ... but your aggressive obstinacy testifies that you did not penetrate them ... What, do you want to swear so much? :)))) Yes, I won’t, the conversation is over ... go ... improve yourself ... otherwise it’s not interesting to argue with you and there’s nothing .... boring you :)))) I don’t intend to answer you anymore .Not started.
                    1. Ruslan_F38
                      Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 19: 28 New
                      +2
                      Quote: smile
                      Ruslan_F38
                      :)))
                      You’re ridiculous ... :))) Here, honestly, even too lazy to answer you ...
                      Okay, I agree. that I’m not able to comprehend your brilliant thoughts :)) so be it ...
                      you ranked me as "unbelievers of nothing but your ego and your self" :))) let it be so, you clearly know better ...
                      your advice "to turn to the basics of the Christian religion, maybe this will help you understand the meaning of Christianity and become people" is strange, because if I am not a person, then in order for them to become I will have to go through hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection for turning into a person ... I won’t get there .. or I won’t live ... :)))
                      But seriously. then:
                      1.You are not able to hear other people's arguments and hear your opponent in general ... by the way, this is very characteristic, unfortunately, of fanatics. including religious ... I repeat, not normal believers. namely fanatics ..
                      2.Before you suggest someone to turn to the basics of religion, you should learn them yourself, your demonstrative non-thermism. which is expressed in the fact that you don’t even consider me a person is an antagonism of Christian humility ..
                      an attempt to start a dispute from scratch, too, as well as the fact that the sin of pride wrapped you in you :))) can you also characterize you as a stubborn person who is not able to admit that he was bullshitting, remember the beginning of the "dispute"? Remember. that essentially you didn’t object to me, made a scandal here, during which they recognized me as a non-human who is not able to understand your ingenious revelations ... :))) In principle, militant ignorance is an ordinary attribute of fanatics ... but to all there is a limit ... you may be familiar with the theory of Christianity ... but your aggressive obstinacy testifies that you did not penetrate them ... What, do you want to swear so much? :)))) Yes, I won’t, the conversation is over ... go ... improve yourself ... otherwise it’s not interesting to argue with you and there’s nothing .... boring you :)))) I don’t intend to answer you anymore .Not started.


                      So, in your opinion, I am: an ignoramus, a militant fanatic, stubborn, stupid apparently - since I don’t understand you, pride tortured me, "fucking" (what word) nonsense, what else is there? Listen to yourself. Maybe it still tortured you with pride?

                      And yet - I didn’t rank you among unbelievers; what did you get? I quote: "Everyone to the rest unbelievers of nothing ... "- read carefully dear, this phrase does not apply to you.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 28 July 2013 21: 49 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Ruslan_F38
                        So in your opinion I am: ignorant, militant fanatic, stubborn, stupid apparently

                        The factor to which Russia owes its existence is the Russian nation, had it not been for it, no faith would have helped.
                        This is such religious chauvinism, your desire to promote the Orthodox faith is understandable, but with such methods you will achieve the opposite results.
                  3. Arkan
                    Arkan 28 July 2013 19: 10 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Ruslan_F38
                    What do my phrases mean, if you are not able to understand them, I know better, and the rest is your speculations and conclusions.

                    Was this the king’s last argument? smile
                  4. Stalinets
                    Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 35 New
                    +1
                    My dearest! But would you not go to hell! Orthodox people are closer to Russian people, not Christianity. In all respects. And Abramic Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion that still has not taken root among the Slavs. And the Jewish religion cannot become Slavic. Their blood is not the same. Stop reminding Goebbels. Stop being a crowd. You overestimate your mental abilities. For sim, I have the honor.
                    1. radio operator
                      radio operator 1 August 2013 14: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Stalinist
                      And the Jewish religion cannot become Slavic.

                  5. Svyatoslavovich
                    Svyatoslavovich 29 July 2013 23: 59 New
                    0
                    Ruslan_F38
                    Apparently for there are only two opinions, yours and stupid?
            2. Bigriver
              Bigriver 28 July 2013 15: 11 New
              +8
              Quote: smile
              Ruslan_F38
              Excuse me. can I answer.
              In my opinion, svp67 told you quite clearly that we had morality and morality and culture even before Christianity, although it was different. And if Orthodoxy would not be close to us, would not correspond to our mentality, it would not have taken root with us.

              Strongly agree!
              Interesting fact. As you know, there were many gods in pagan Russia. There was Dazhbog - the Sun. Its symbol is the CROSS.
              And in the “Word on Igor’s Regiment”, written at least a couple of hundred years after the Baptism of Rus, the Russians called the author “dazhbizkie children”.
              And our pagan beliefs were not unique. There are too many parallels in the paganism of the peoples of northern Europe. Such a feeling, some international was living according to the same beliefs on a hefty continent.
              Take the swastika, the same ... It was widespread from India to Ireland.
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 28 July 2013 16: 46 New
                +5
                Quote: BigRiver
                And our pagan beliefs were not unique.

                That's right. In all the ancient religions, the sun-god. The names of the ancient gods Thor, Horus, Horus, Horse are similar among different peoples. Trinity is also not a Christian invention. Egypt: Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth opposes them, by the way, the root basis of the words Seth and Satan is the same. There are many examples.
                Quote: BigRiver
                Such a feeling, some international was living according to the same beliefs on a hefty continent.

                You are not far from the truth.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 29 July 2013 09: 19 New
                  +2
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  Trinity is also not a Christian invention. Egypt: Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth confronts them, by the way, the root base of the words Seth and Satan is the same. There are many examples

                  If they are also unsuccessful like this ancient Egyptian, then it is not worth it.
                  Isis - the sister and wife of Osiris, the mother of Horus, even one of the oldest deities in Egypt, but one of many.
                  In your opinion, it is possible, without distorting the meaning and not twisting the soul, to take the three gods, consisting in kinship, and call them trinity ???
                  What a stupid thing ...
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 1 August 2013 15: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: Flood
                    call them trinity ???

                    You just do not understand the essence of the trinity, this is not an abstract concept.
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 3 August 2013 15: 57 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Setrac
                      You just do not understand the essence of the trinity, this is not an abstract concept.

                      Exactly. But who is abstracting?
                2. Furnace driver
                  Furnace driver 1 August 2013 14: 16 New
                  +1
                  the way it is, only among the Slavs they were called great ancestors or ancestors, but they were not elevated to gods in the current sense of the word
                3. radio operator
                  radio operator 1 August 2013 14: 32 New
                  +1
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  Trinity is also not a Christian invention. Egypt: Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth confronts them.

                  These are different concepts.
                  In Christianity, the Trinity, and what you are talking about is a triad.
                  1. Furnace driver
                    Furnace driver 1 August 2013 14: 40 New
                    0
                    you still remember about the Chinese triads laughing , but in essence the Baltic is right: mythology (including the biblical plot on which the three religions are based: Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is mainly written from one source around the world.
                    http://lah.ru/text/novikevich/abovo.pdf
                    1. radio operator
                      radio operator 3 August 2013 12: 55 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Oven Driver
                      the biblical plot on which three religions are based: Judaism, Christianity, Islam) is written around the world from one source.

                      These are three completely different religions.
                      How can the New Testament relate to Judaism or Islam? Rave.
                      The New Testament is the most anti-Semitic book.
                      Medieval Rabbi Moses Maimonides: "Our fathers did the right thing by crucifying Christ."
                      Engels: Christianity, having arisen, came into sharp conflict with all existing religions.
                      Terry Jewish atheism with an organic hatred of Christianity. All atheists, especially the militants, are absolutely incapable of understanding the gospel. Talking about the truth with a militant atheist is utterly futile. / Abbot Nikon Vorobiev /
                      The Catholic cardinal at a conference in the United States said: "Christians should no longer preach among the Jews, because they are God's chosen people." After the Orthodox protest, the cardinal said that this is not a solution, but that it opens up new prospects for dialogue, etc. "
              2. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 5 August 2013 00: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: BigRiver
                And in the “Word on Igor’s Regiment”, written at least a couple of hundred years after the Baptism of Rus, the Russians called the author “dazhbizkie children”.

                Orthodoxy in Russia is an exceptional, peculiar thing. A good example of this is "Viy" and the cycle "Evenings on a Farm .." by N.V. Gogol. And in the interfluve of the Oka and Volga and at the beginning of the 19 century, the Orthodox, having defended service in the church, went to honor the pagan gods inherited from local, later assimilated, Finnish tribes. The same local tribes “contributed” to the formation of the local dialect of the Old Russian language. As a result, we have a MONSTERY difference in dialects (who tried to read Pisakhov's Northern Tales in the original?) From the south of Ukraine to Pomerania.
                As for the baptism of Russia, it is inclined to follow the thought of V. Alekseev that such events are a secondary product of a change in the type of autocracy. As a result - IMPORTANT punishment for misconduct (Nikon reform, persecution of the "Old Believers under Peter the Great, defeat of the church by the Bolsheviks).
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 5 August 2013 13: 00 New
                  +1
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  persecution of the Old Believers under Peter the Great

                  In how the story was perverted! Let's see what kind of split it was!
                  So, it would seem what difference does how many fingers should be in the pinch during baptism? But this is only the external side, in fact, the number of fingers is a symbol, three fingers symbolize the trinity, those who are baptized with two fingers reject the trinity. What is a trinity? These are not just abstract gods sitting in the sky, the three essences of one god are symbolized by the three constituents of man:
                  God the son - symbolizes the physical component, the body
                  God the father - symbolizes the mind
                  God is a holy spirit - symbolizes the soul.
                  That is, those same schismatics reject the soul. And who in our time rejects the trinity? These are Catholics, they believe that there is a man on earth and a heavenly father in heaven, there is no holy spirit in their religion, therefore the Western civilization turned out to be so immoral.
                  That is, we see that in the 17th century there was not an abstract split between the Old Believers and nobody knows who, but a very real split between Orthodoxy and Catholics.
          3. svp67
            svp67 28 July 2013 14: 52 New
            +3
            Quote: Ruslan_F38
            I did not set cons.
            Yes, I’m not offended, it’s a pity that no one wants to reinforce their position. Usually these people blindly believe in something, and I feel sorry for them, because faith should not be blind, otherwise in difficult times many will turn away from it ...
            1. fisherman
              fisherman 28 July 2013 23: 41 New
              +3
              Usually these people blindly believe in something, and I feel sorry for them, because faith should not be blind, otherwise in difficult times many will turn away from it ...


              faith can be blind, personally I believe that it is only blind, but the mind is not

              for thousands of years, a significant part of humanity has believed that with the help of reason (science) it will finally be able to get rid of the influence of His Majesty - the Case

              another part of humanity blindly believes that chance will be merciful to them, and do not bother with the failed attempts of intellectuals to digitize concepts such as friendship, love, duty ...
      2. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 29 July 2013 00: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        So, this is a holiday regardless of whether you believe or not.

        Rather, Mourning Day !!! How many people killed their own, who was against this faith. It was just as civil as it was in 1918. And this is a holiday ???? And they still want to make it state, despite the fact that our country multinational and there is not only one Orthodoxy !!!! The specific insanity. It is clear that someone very much wants to push Islam and Christianity with their foreheads to complete exhaustion, and what will happen then is silent ...
        1. Slav
          Slav 29 July 2013 11: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: ramzes1776
          Rather, Mourning Day !!! How many people destroyed their own people, who were against this faith. It was just as civil as it was in 1918. And this is a holiday ????

          Do you call at least one work HISTORY that you would publish in a specialized periodical, at least, which would affirm what you are talking about?
          Even Soviet historians in an atheist state did not write this.
          This is a completely liberal interpretation of quasi-history from Boris Abramych.
          Well, everyone has their own authorities.
      3. Stalinets
        Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 25 New
        -3
        . It should be a shame. fool
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 28 July 2013 11: 43 New
    +7
    On the occasion of the Orthodox Russia! .. We have many enemies and enemies .. We all want to dig deeper into our mysterious souls .. Be vigilant!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sarmat-4791
    sarmat-4791 28 July 2013 12: 16 New
    13
    1) "holy grandmother of Prince Vladimir, a woman of the state mindset" - in 959 Princess Olga, being a guest of Otto I (the German Emperor), begged to send a bishop to Russia. In 961, Bishop Adalbert arrives with a large military detachment. The result of subsequent events - the military detachment of Adalbert was defeated by Svyatoslav and the same Princess Olga was removed from government.
    2) "Pagan custom demanded that the ruler of a bloody sacrifice to the Slavic deity Perun after a victorious campaign on the Yotvyag" - the Slavs-Rusichs NEVER made human sacrifices.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 28 July 2013 15: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: sarmat-4791
      Russian Slavs NEVER made human sacrifices

      Somehow too confident. And although historical sources and archeology suggest other thoughts, I ask for clarification:
      In your opinion, it turns out that other Slavic pagans made human sacrifices (well, you will not really argue with the obvious), namely, there are no Rusichs? That is, they were more human in contrast to other evil Slavs and their paganism was more humane ...
      Excuse me, where does this line of settlement, or sedentaryness, of Russians take place in your opinion? Behind which human sacrifices began ...
      1. ratuld
        ratuld 29 July 2013 04: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Flood
        Quote: sarmat-4791
        Russian Slavs NEVER made human sacrifices

        Somehow too confident. And although historical sources and archeology suggest other thoughts, I ask for clarification:
        In your opinion, it turns out that other Slavic pagans made human sacrifices (well, you will not really argue with the obvious), namely, there are no Rusichs? That is, they were more human in contrast to other evil Slavs and their paganism was more humane ...
        Excuse me, where does this line of settlement, or sedentaryness, of Russians take place in your opinion? Behind which human sacrifices began ...

        Well, you are respected and dark.
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%E0%EF%EB%EE%E3%F0%F3%EF%EF%E0_R1a_(Y-%C4%CD%CA)

        So draw yourself this "line" damn "settled" laughing
      2. sarmat-4791
        sarmat-4791 31 July 2013 00: 18 New
        -1
        what are these "other pagan Slavs"? I do not divide them into these and those. Please list historical sources and archaeological finds.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 31 July 2013 11: 43 New
          0
          Quote: sarmat-4791
          what are these "other pagan Slavs"? I do not divide them into these and those.

          Very strange. That is, speaking of the Rus Slavs, did you mean ALL Slavs?
          Or are there any specific tribes? If all the Slavs were Russian for you, then the question disappears by itself.
          Quote: sarmat-4791
          Please list historical sources and archaeological finds, please

          Here again, everything rests on paragraph one. Who do you mean by Russians?

          About the murdered Fedor Varyag and his son John I will not spread. You can ask yourself. All the annals mention them: The Tale of Bygone Years, the Lavrentievsky Chronicle, the Sofia First Chronicle of the Elder, the Radziwill Chronicle.

          Take an interesting book, "Pagan Sanctuaries of the Ancient Slavs," by I.P. Rusanova, B.A. Tymoshchuk. Just about the results of archaeological excavations in which the authors took part.
          The temple in Zvenigorod
          On, let's call it, the first temple - the scattered bones of relatively elderly men aged about 45 years, a Christian cross and a censer.
          Among the remains of human victims in Zvenigorod, only fragments of skulls, the lower jaw and bones of the arms and legs were found, and no bones of the body were found.

          Among the finds on another temple of Zvenigorod, in addition to traces of human sacrifices, were a burnt folding cross, an equal-sized cross made of mountain resin, a handmade pearl cross, a slate equal-pointed cross, a pewter cross and other objects of the Christian cult.

          What leads, I am afraid to upset you, the thought of the ritual murders of Christians.
          The authors find an explanation for the lack of human bodies in the "Slavic Chronicle" of the chronicler Helmold. He can find the following about the uprising in 1066. and the murder of Bishop John in his capital Retre:
          "they chopped off his hands and feet, threw his body onto the road, and cut off his head and, sticking it on a spear, sacrificed it to his god Radegast"

          Is THIS enough for the first time?
          1. sarmat-4791
            sarmat-4791 2 August 2013 22: 12 New
            0
            take the source - Gods of the Rus do not take human sacrifices. No animals. Some fruits. Vegetables are growing. Grains, milk surah drinking, fermented in herbs, and honey, never a living bird. It’s not fish, it’s the Vikings and Hellenes who give the gods a different, terrible, human sacrifice, we don’t know how to do it because we are Dazhbov’s grandchildren and we don’t know how to sneak in other footsteps, alien. This is our sacrifice, there is honey-surya in nine human strengths, they were put in the sun for three days, after those filtered through a flax, that future sacrifice to the Gods of Rights, who, after all, our praochi, or this is an ode, comes from Dazhba and become Glory in Glory We never ask our gods and do not pray for our blessings, it is either the Gods tell us, go to Russia. (Veles book).
            1. radio operator
              radio operator 3 August 2013 13: 33 New
              -1
              Quote: sarmat-4791
              take the source - Gods of the Rus do not take human sacrifices. No animals. Some fruits. Vegetables are growing. Grains, milk surah drinking, fermented in herbs

              To characterize pagan moral standards of that time, we give a fragment of a description of the funeral of a wealthy pagan - Rus, made by an Arab diplomat and traveler Ibn Fadlan, who personally saw this funeral in the 922 year.
              “Then they entered the hut (where the rich Rus died a few days ago and his living girlfriend was) six husbands from among the Rus relatives and all combined with the girl in the presence of the deceased. Then, as soon as they had finished exercising their rights of love, they laid her down next to the master. Two grabbed her legs, two her hands, an old woman came, called the angel of death, put a rope with diverging ends on her neck and gave it to two husbands to be pulled, and got down to business, having a huge dagger with a wide blade in her hand. "She began to stick it between her ribs and take it out, while both husbands strangled the deceased's still alive girlfriend with ropes until she died.” Then the naked relative of the deceased set fire to the rook, where in the hut lay the bodies of the deceased, his dead girlfriend, slaughtered horses, cows, dogs, equipment, weapons, dishes, etc., prepared for an eternity journey. deceased rus. Such a grim ritual of burial was among the pagans of Rus before Christianity. Paganism is also distinguished by other gloomy sides. Today, some are trying to prove that the pagans of Russia allegedly did not have human sacrifices to their gods. History testifies that this is not so. The first saints of the Russian Orthodox Church were the Varangian Christians Theodore and his son John, burned by the pagans of Kiev before the idol of Perun. Historical documents also testify to other facts of human sacrifice in pagan times in Russia. Pagan god-idols are filled with human blood from head to toe.
              1. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 01 New
                -1
                Ibn Fadlan sometimes writes himself without knowing what.
                Example 1 (rhinos in Bulgaria ???): And not far from it is a wide steppe, about which it is said that in it (there is) an animal smaller than a camel in size, but higher than a bull. His head is the head of a lamb, and his tail is the tail of a bull, his body is the body of a mule, his hooves are like the hooves of a bull. In the middle of his head is one horn thick round; as it rises (approaches the tip) it becomes thinner until it becomes like the tip of a spear. And of them (horns), the other has a length of five cubits to three cubits in accordance with the larger or smaller size (of the animal). It feeds (lit .: grazed onto) the leaves of trees that have excellent greenery. When it sees the rider, it goes to him, and if there was a trotter under him (the rider), then he (the trotter) is looking for salvation from him in an intensified flight, and if he catches up with him (the rider), then he grabs him with his horn from the back his horse, then throws him up in the air and meets him with his horn, and does not stop (doing) in this way until he kills him. And it does not inflict a horse anything in any way or way. And they (the inhabitants) are looking for him in the steppes and forests until they kill him. It (happens) so that (they) climb tall trees between which it (the animal) is located. For this, several shooters gather with poisoned arrows, and when it is between them, they shoot at it until they wound it and kill it. And indeed, I saw at the king three large bowls similar to Yemeni (shells) “jazz '”, about which (bowls) he informed me that they were made from the base of the horns of this animal.
                And some (some) of the inhabitants of (this) country report that
                it is an (animal) rhino.
              2. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 02 New
                -1
                Example 2 (Russes are pagans or Muslims ???): Even before the Khazar king came (the news) about the beauty of the daughter of the Tsar of the Slavs. So, he (the king of the Khazars) sent to woo her, and he (the king of the Slavs) argued against him and refused him. Then he sent (an expedition) and took it by force, although he is a Jew, and she is a Muslim.
                Example 3
                (Russes have an idea of ​​what is now called quarantine): And if any of them gets sick, then they hammer a hut for him away from themselves and throw it in it, and put some bread and water with it, and do not they approach him and do not speak with him, but visit him every three days, especially if he is poor or slave. If he gets well and gets up, he returns to them, and if he dies, they burn him.
                (Russes have no idea about quarantine):
                When they arrived at his grave, they removed to the side the earth from the tree (from the wooden cover) and removed to the side (this) tree and removed it (dead) in the isar in which he died, and now, I saw that he already blackened from the cold of (this) country. And even before that, they placed with him in his grave a nabid and (some) fruit and a turbour. So, they took it all out, and now he didn’t smell and did not change anything except his color. So, they put on him trousers and leggings, and boots, and a jacket, and a brocade haft with buttons made of gold, and put a cap (sash) made of brocade, sable on his head. And they carried it until they brought it into that tent (cabin), which (is) on the ship, and put it on the mattress, and propped it up with pillows and brought a nabid, and fruit, and an incense plant and laid it with it. (is it about 9 or 10 days after death?!)
                1. Basileus
                  Basileus 4 August 2013 21: 30 New
                  +2
                  "Example 2" is not suitable. You would first have to figure out who the "Slavs" are in the story. Ibn Fadlan called Sakalib, including the Bulgars, so it is clear that the king of the "Slavs" - the Bulgarian - the Muslim.
                  1. sarmat-4791
                    sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 22: 10 New
                    -1
                    O-p-punk !!! Ibn Fadlan did not see the DIFFERENCE between the pagan Slavs and Muslim Bulgars ?! It means one language, one culture, maybe even one people. Well, it's worth thinking about this hypothesis.
                    1. sarmat-4791
                      sarmat-4791 5 August 2013 00: 03 New
                      -1
                      although if you look at the haplogroup R1a - the way it is. And let some people try to divide us into tribes, nationalities, peoples, etc., but you can’t argue with genetics, so in some ways Ibn Fadlan is not a storyteller
                    2. Basileus
                      Basileus 5 August 2013 07: 48 New
                      +1
                      Oppanki - “Sakaliba” is not (necessarily) Slavs.
                      1. Basileus
                        Basileus 5 August 2013 08: 06 New
                        0
                        http://history-fiction.ru/books/book_1135/
                        I can advise the first part of this book
              3. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 04 New
                -1
                Example 4 (who is wearing what): I saw the Russians when they arrived at
                their trading affairs and settled down (landed) on the river Atil.
                And I did not see (people) with more perfect bodies than them. They are
                like palm trees, blush, red. They don’t wear either jackets or
                haftans
                or so - they put on him trousers and leggings, and boots, and a jacket, and a brocade haft with buttons made of gold, and put a cap (kalansuva) from brocade, sable on his head.
                Example 5 (about snakes): I saw that they have so many snakes that on a branch of a tree, right, a dozen of them and more wound themselves. They do not kill them, and they (snakes) do not harm them, so, really, somehow, I somehow saw in one place a long tree, the length of which was more than a hundred cubits. It has already fallen, and now I see that its trunk is huge enormously. I stopped looking at him, and then it moved, and it frightened me. I looked at him carefully and, behold, (I see) a snake on him, similar to him in thickness and length. When she saw me, she came down from him (the tree) and disappeared between the trees. I came (back) scared. So, I told (about this) to the king and those who were at his reception. But they did not attach any importance to this, and he (the king) said: "Do not worry, because she will not do you harm."
              4. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 07 New
                +2
                With such descriptions, Ibn Fadlan can be put on a par with Marco Polo (storytellers, damn it)
              5. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 33 New
                0
                Tale from Ibn Fadlan (short):
                Then I raised my head and behold, (see) a cloud like fire,
                not far from me, and now, (I see that) this is grunts and noises (coming)
                from him, and now, in him (visible) the likenesses of people and horses, and now, in
                distant figures that in it (the cloud) look like people,
                (visible) spears and swords, which then seemed to me completely clear,
                it’s only apparent. And so, (I saw) another piece like these
                (to the figures), in which I also saw husbands, horses and weapons, and
                this piece began to attack that piece as the squadron attacks
                (cavalry) to the (other) squadron. We were afraid of this and
                began to ask and pray, and they (the inhabitants) laugh at us and
                surprised at what we do. He (Ibn Fadlan) said: and we
                looked at the detachment attacking the detachment, and they both mixed
                together for a while, then both split, and so
                this business went on for some part of the night. Then we hid (from
                them). We asked the king about this, and he said that his ancestors
                said that these (riders) belong to believers and unbelievers
                genies and they fight every night and that they do not stop
                this since they (the inhabitants) live (here), every night.
                and further - http://borsin1.narod.ru/download/Ibn-Fadlan.htm
              6. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 14: 26 New
                0
                And human sacrifices in Russia were introduced by Vladimir, discrediting the faith of their ancestors - "And Vladimir began to reign in Kiev alone, and set idols on a hill behind the tower yard: wooden Perun with a silver head and golden mustache, and Khors, Dazhbog, and Stribog, and Simargl, and Mokosh. And they sacrificed to them, calling them gods, and brought their sons and daughters, and sacrificed to demons, and defiled the land with their sacrifices. And was polluted with blood
                Russian land and that hill. But God didn’t want the death of sinners, and the church of St. Basil now stands on that hill, as we will tell about this later.
                Now back to the former.
                Vladimir put Dobrynya, his uncle, in Novgorod. And, having come to Novgorod, Dobrynya set an idol over the Volkhov River, and the Novgorodians offered him sacrifices as a god. "
                For banditry in Russia during this time, Vladimir did not learn anything good. It was under Vladimir Varyag and his son that they killed.
            2. Flooding
              Flooding 3 August 2013 15: 58 New
              +2
              Quote: sarmat-4791
              take the source

              So can you name it, this source?
          2. sarmat-4791
            sarmat-4791 2 August 2013 23: 33 New
            0
            "Pagan sanctuaries of the ancient Slavs" (I.P. Rusanova, B.A. Timoshchuk) Table 1 - only 3 sanctuaries contain human remains (and descriptions such that do not convince that these were ritual victims; the authors themselves squeak that up to 10 century there are no such finds). Time - from the 10th to the 13th centuries (just the time when the shrines began to be destroyed). Most likely these are victims (there are few of them, there would be constant sacrifices - there would be cemeteries of bones) during the destruction of the temples. But the bishop was simply executed. And Germold did not know the Slavic gods, so he wrote nonsense.
            1. radio operator
              radio operator 3 August 2013 13: 38 New
              0
              Quote: sarmat-4791
              human remains were found in 3 shrines (and descriptions are such that they do not convince that these were ritual victims

              Well, of course, you know better while sitting in front of the monitor than the archaeologist and historian who came into contact with the excavations personally.
              Where are they up to you.
              1. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 21 New
                -1
                of the 18 mentioned sanctuaries, only 3 found the remains. If human sacrifice would be the rule, they would be found everywhere. I would not argue with that. And the book is really described as it is, obviously does not indicate anything to the ritual.
            2. Flooding
              Flooding 3 August 2013 16: 04 New
              +1
              sarmat-4791, did you request archeology data?
              Now you are saying that I should not trust them,
              because ... you assume that these were not ritual victims.
              But just archaeologists on the basis of facts speak otherwise.
              Why should I believe your assumptions?
              "Most likely" ... Sorry, but this is too pale for conclusions.

              Quote: sarmat-4791
              And Hermold did not know the Slavic gods, so he wrote nonsense

              Naturally, you, who live many centuries later, know better than the historian who lived in the 12th century and wrote about the Slav Slavs who lived on the territory of modern Russia. Germany.

              Shame on you?
              1. sarmat-4791
                sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 12: 27 New
                -1
                But where did he get the god Radagast? It was not a god, but one of the great ancestors, and Hermold called him his god. And the source is always the books of some people (nation) about themselves, in this case I took the book of Veles.
                1. sarmat-4791
                  sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 14: 19 New
                  -1
                  And human sacrifices in Russia were introduced by Vladimir, discrediting the faith of ancestors - "And Vladimir began to reign in Kiev alone, and put idols on a hill for
                  by the tower: wooden Perun with a silver head and a golden mustache, and Horse, Dazhbog, and Stribog, and Simargl, and Mokosh. And they sacrificed to them, calling them gods, and brought their sons and daughters, and sacrificed to demons, and defiled the land with their sacrifices. And defiled with blood
                  Russian land and that hill. But God didn’t want the death of sinners, and the church of St. Basil now stands on that hill, as we will tell about this later.
                  Now back to the former.
                  Vladimir put Dobrynya, his uncle, in Novgorod. And, having come to Novgorod, Dobrynya set an idol over the Volkhov River, and the Novgorodians offered him sacrifices as a god. "
                2. Flooding
                  Flooding 4 August 2013 16: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: sarmat-4791
                  And the source is always the books of some people (nation) about themselves, in this case I took the book of Veles.

                  Oh yes, great and unquestionable, without doubt in its authenticity.

                  Quote: sarmat-4791
                  But where did he get the god Radagast? It was not a god, but one of the great ancestors, and Hermold called him his god.

                  - option one: the chronicler could make a mistake in naming the god. What changes this in the essence of things and facts?
                  - Option Two: Do ​​you know anything about the deification of the ancient leaders and heroes among the Gentiles? Then start your training again.
                  1. sarmat-4791
                    sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 20: 18 New
                    -1
                    Yes, sometimes people tend to make mistakes
                  2. sarmat-4791
                    sarmat-4791 4 August 2013 21: 43 New
                    -1
                    where do we start my training? I really do not sit on the Internet often, there are big breaks
                    1. sarmat-4791
                      sarmat-4791 5 August 2013 00: 43 New
                      -1
                      we know that such authoritative organizations as the Russian Academy of Sciences do not recognize the authenticity of the Veles book (the level of development of the Russian Academy of Sciences can be judged by the document - Russian Academy of Sciences 12.07.2011 No. 4-P-613-1851 on No. 149 dated 20.05.2011/20.05.2011/149 Having considered the letter dated 16.03.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX for No. XNUMX I inform you of the following: The Department of Historical and Philological Sciences of the Russian Academy of Sciences sent you a response on March XNUMX, XNUMX from the RAS Institution of the Russian Academy of Sciences of the Miklukho-Maklai Institute of Entology and Anthropology of the RAS. its competence does not include telling the true history of the Cossack people to the Russians and covering the true causes of the Ossetian-Ingush conflict, as you ask in the letter. Signed - Vice-President of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Academician A. D. Nekipelov) - well, then how to trust educated people.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 5 August 2013 10: 51 New
                        +2
                        Quote: sarmat-4791
                        we know that such authoritative organizations as the RAS do not recognize the authenticity of the Veles book

                        Then let's talk about the great authority of the historian Mirolyubov, the main ascetic of the Vlesova Book:

                        Works by Yu. P. Mirolyubov were published in Munich in 1974-
                        1984, in nine volumes, after the death of the author (in 1970), and probably remained unknown to S. Lesnoy and other VK defenders. The first three volumes contain stories, poems and ethnographic sketches of rituals and religious holidays in the Russian village. The rest of the volume is the work of Mirolyubov, devoted to the "ancestors" of the Slavs and the religion of the ancient "Rus." It makes no sense to describe in detail these extremely amateurish studies, but it is worth mentioning the main conclusions of the author.
                        Mirolyubov claims that "Slavic-Rus ... are the most ancient people on Earth" (v. 9, p. 125), that "their ancestral home lies between Sumer (Sumer? - O. T.), Iran and Northern India," from where “about five thousand years ago” the Slavs moved to “Iran, to Zagros, where they bred war horses for more than half a century,” then “rushed cavalry on the despotism of the Mesopotamia, defeated them, captured Syria and Palestine and broke into Egypt” (v. 7 p. 186-187). According to Mirolyubov, the Slavs entered Europe in the XNUMXth century BC. e., making up the vanguard of the Assyrian army: "Assyrians subjugated everything
                        then the monarchies of the Middle East, including the Persian, and the Persians were masters of the Northern lands until Kama. There is nothing surprising if we assume that the Slavs were at the forefront of the Assyrians, broke away from the main forces and captured the lands they liked "(vol. 4, p. 160-161).
                        Therefore, Yu.P. Mirolyubov admits, "you have to turn the whole story" (vol. 7, p. 187).


                        Another example is evident. Peace-loving, referring to the "Tradition", which he noted in popular beliefs, argues that "Grandfather Lesovik has assistants," among whom are named, in particular, Kustich, Listich, Travnik, Steblich, Kvetich, Yagodich, Gribnich "(v. 5 , p. 42) in another context Travich, Senich, Tsvetich, Steblich, Listich (t. 6, p. 201) are also mentioned.The artificiality of these names is undeniable, but at the same time they all occur, among others, in the VC, on the tablet 15b. To our amazement, in most cases, telling the history of the ancient Slavs or reconstructing ancient Slavic mythology, the Peaceful one refers not to the VK, but to completely different sources. He allegedly received information about the pagan pantheon not only "among the people", but also from “the old Prabka Barbara, that is, from the nanny, the educator of her father” (v. 6, p. 13). It is Prabka Barbara who recalls all the pagan deities by name: “Ognika, Ognebog, Indra, Sema and Ryaglu, Dazhba” and “all Svarozhichi” (t. 3, p. 51). Mirolyubov specifically emphasizes "We do not make any links, p because all these explanations were heard from Praba Barbara, who - alone - was worth a whole faculty of history and folklore "(vol. 3, p. 65). Mirolyubov obtained information about the prehistory of the Slavic Russians from another old woman who lived in their "summer kitchen" in 1913 - Zakharichi.


                        Barbarian, Zacharich, Herbalist, Mushroom picker, Jagodic, Indra ...
                        Is this the very academy in which you select your invaluable knowledge?
                        It’s better to read Fomenko :)
                      2. sarmat-4791
                        sarmat-4791 5 August 2013 23: 51 New
                        0
                        Fomenko asks the right questions, but when he tries to answer them himself - this is something. Mirolyubov is not at all a historian, but seems to be a chemist by education (not authority, especially). But this is a digression. But let's start my training with an interesting question: which of the 2 examinations that recognized the Veles book as fake is correct?
                      3. sarmat-4791
                        sarmat-4791 10 August 2013 20: 15 New
                        -1
                        it’s a pity that they could not listen to the head of the transport department ...
                  3. Setrac
                    Setrac 5 August 2013 13: 04 New
                    +1
                    Quote: sarmat-4791
                    such authoritative organizations as the RAS do not recognize the authenticity of the Veles book

                    They can recognize whatever they want, in real science (unlike history), evidence is needed, not "recognition".
  • Basileus
    Basileus 29 July 2013 10: 10 New
    +2
    In the "note" of Ibn Fadlan, observation is made of the funeral rite of the Rus. If killing women to send with a dead man is not a victim, then what?
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 29 July 2013 11: 06 New
      -2
      Basileus, do you think someone will answer your question?
      Do not wait. Just a couple of minuses will arrive.
      1. Hort
        Hort 30 July 2013 07: 45 New
        -2
        I can answer. There were sacrifices: boski on stakes is a kind of sacrifice to the god of war. The same Vlad Tepes became famous for this.
        In some cases, and "in civilian life" sacrifice was made.
    2. Vasily T.
      Vasily T. 30 July 2013 11: 38 New
      +1
      And where did you get that this is about the Russians or the Slavs written? From the name "RUS"? So this is not a fact. This note is not so simple. Until now, scientists have no unambiguous interpretation in its translation. Everything is written in the explanation for the article.
      http://www.semargl.me/library/araby/tales-of-muslim/ibn-fadlan/
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 30 July 2013 12: 59 New
        +1
        Yes, thanks, I read. And I also read the explanations, including information about the Sakaliba, the "Slavs." However, the fact that some notes are present in the note does not go anywhere.
    3. sarmat-4791
      sarmat-4791 31 July 2013 00: 13 New
      0
      I read, he liked it especially about the rhinoceros, and about the Russians - “when they arrived on their business affairs and settled down (landed) on the Atil River. And I did not see (people) with more perfect bodies than them. They
      like palm trees, blush, red. They don’t wear either jackets or
      haftans, but any husband among them is wearing a kitty, whom he
      it covers one of its sides, and one of its hands comes out of it. "And it is interestingly written about hygiene ...
  • sarmat-4791
    sarmat-4791 28 July 2013 12: 35 New
    +1
    In 903, Olga married Igor and somewhere in 941-943 gave birth to Svyatoslav. Count how old was she?
    And it didn’t make sense for Vladimir to accept foreign ambassadors or send his own to get acquainted with religions - in Kiev, and in Russia there were many merchants and everyone knew about everyone. In addition, Olga went to Konstantin with her priest
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 28 July 2013 13: 12 New
    +9
    Religion change is probably a major blow to culture and language. Kazakhs converted to Islam a few hundred years ago. The adoption of Islam led to the destruction of monuments and religious buildings of Tengrianism, the ancient religion of the Steppe. Knowledge of runic writing, for example, was lost. Fortunately, ancient steles were preserved deep in the steppe, on which, later, inscriptions were found in runic writing. This alphabet can be learned today, is in nete. One enlightened Yakut, when meeting with a friend of mine, said: "You, Kazakhs, have been praying in a foreign language for several hundred years, calling God by a foreign name, he simply will not recognize you." And in fact, the troubles for my people began precisely in those times ... On one ancient stele of the Turkic Hagan an inscription was preserved in a runic letter: "O great Turkic people, live and be glorified for centuries, great Turkic people." Russia, with the advent of Christianity, abandoned paganism by destroying the cult and cultural heritage of its ancestors. How did this affect the people? Christianity separated Russia from the Steppe, on the one hand, giving passionary ideas, on the other hand, breaking contact with the ancestral home forever. And only today in the textbooks on the history of Russia, the historical connection is clearly visible: Scythians-Turkic Kaganate-Russian statehood.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 2 August 2013 19: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Asan Ata
      Religion change is probably a major blow to culture and language.

      The situation of the change of religion among the nomads is perfectly described by Valentin Ivanov in the book "RUSSIA'S PRIMARY". The atmosphere and attitude of the nomads - "traditionalists" at this step is very well conveyed. And, the thoughts of one of the Khazar khans, in relation to this, are a complete analogy of yours ...
      From SW. hi
  • homosum20
    homosum20 28 July 2013 13: 25 New
    +7
    "The grandson of the holy Equal-to-the-Apostles Princess Olga, in his youth Prince Vladimir was a furious pagan, a cruel warrior, a lover of women and wine. His miraculous transformation into the holy ruler of Russia is even more surprising."
    Yeah. I saw it myself.
    Today we do not know whether the Tatar-Mongol yoke (much later), who are the Tatar-Mongols, etc., but we know for sure about Prince Vladimir.
    The beginning of the article averts further reading.
    And what, the Orthodox must be fools? Or to whom was it written? I want to believe. Baptized. I wear a cross. I can not. God gave reason and the habit of thinking.
    Faith is a very serious matter. More serious than quantum physics. You can not trust her fools and ignoramuses.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 28 July 2013 13: 39 New
    +5
    "The ambassadors from Khazaria arrived - the Khazar rulers-Jews" - FALSE, at the time of the baptism of Russia, the Khazars did not exist, it was destroyed by Vladimir’s grandfather, SVYATOSLAV.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 28 July 2013 14: 29 New
      +1
      But nothing that in the 14th century, Catholic missionaries traveled to the Crimea to convert the Khazars to Christianity?
    2. George
      George 28 July 2013 23: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      "The ambassadors from Khazaria arrived - the Khazar rulers-Jews" - FALSE, at the time of the baptism of Russia, the Khazars did not exist, it was destroyed by Vladimir’s grandfather, SVYATOSLAV.

      Everything is true, except that Svyatoslav was the father of Vladimir, and not his grandfather.
      1. Stalinets
        Stalinets 29 July 2013 05: 42 New
        -1
        And his mother, the housekeeper, the daughter of the rabbi, Malka. So, Vladimir, a kosher Jew. Here you have the atomic bomb, under the Slavic principles and religion.
    3. Arkan
      Arkan 29 July 2013 01: 13 New
      -1
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      "The ambassadors from Khazaria arrived - the Khazar rulers-Jews" - FALSE,

      Choosing faith, Vladimir sent embassies (he sent but did not accept) to Muslims, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians. I don’t remember Nestor mentioning Judaism, but there are simply no other descriptions of those events ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • MG42
    MG42 28 July 2013 13: 55 New
    +8
    Wooden churches of Russia
    1. Imperial
      Imperial 28 July 2013 14: 37 New
      +3
      This church is unique in its kind, everything seems to be simple but ... It is a pity there was only one, Baranovsky made a great merit in salvation, he was the first of the restorers to measure and describe it.
      1. MG42
        MG42 28 July 2013 16: 54 New
        +6
        Quote: Imperial
        This church is one of a kind

        Pavel, what about the song? I have sunk into the soul since the mid-80s ..

        Black Coffee - Vladimir Russia

        Wooden churches of Russia,
        Skewed ancient walls.
        Come and ask a lot
        In these log cabins there is a heart and veins

        A window is boarded up
        Silently wretched decoration
        But the old walls are given
        Measure the soul with simple constancy

        Levitan was left alone
        If the brush froze in stagnation.
        And then among many paintings
        Suddenly "Over Eternal Peace" was born

        On canvas, a small detail:
        The old church on the slope
        And the immense distance is visible
        In the epic-boundless expanse

        Old Russian folk rite,
        Incorruptible human pride:
        Wooden churches stand
        This is life without end and without edge

        Wooden churches of Russia,
        Skewed ancient walls.
        Come and ask a lot
        In these log cabins there is a heart and veins

        There is! There is a heart, a heart and veins!
        1. Imperial
          Imperial 28 July 2013 18: 26 New
          +4
          Hello Sergey! The words are wonderful, but the arrangement is not very good for me, and it is not a matter of style, namely, the arrangement for my taste, it was necessary to be more melodious or something, like Aria’s or., But by the way taste and color .. drinks
          1. MG42
            MG42 28 July 2013 18: 35 New
            +4
            Quote: Imperial
            Hello Sergey! The words are wonderful, but the arrangement is not very good for me, and it is not a matter of style, namely, the arrangement for my taste, it was necessary to be more melodious or something, like Aria’s or., But by the way taste and color ..

            Hello! drinks
  • Ilya Mikhalych
    Ilya Mikhalych 28 July 2013 13: 55 New
    +6
    The author is not objective. As far as I know, before baptism, Russia was not so wild. Oh well, ALL ORTHODOX ON HOLIDAY laughing
    1. Furnace driver
      Furnace driver 1 August 2013 14: 20 New
      -1
      so wild that they built cities, from the number of which even Arabs were given a wonder :)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 28 July 2013 14: 13 New
    +7
    Happy holiday Orthodox Russia!

    I advise everyone to see, the author is a very smart person and his opinion can be taken into account.
  • Seraph
    Seraph 28 July 2013 14: 18 New
    -2
    Very often I notice in articles that in one way or another touch on the topic of religion and Orthodoxy in particular: the first comments of people loyal to Orthodoxy collect a large number of "likes"; then begins the "dispute about the gods" and the number of "+" and "-" drops sharply. From this we can conclude: the people still sympathize with Orthodoxy, and all this neopaganism with Perun and Veles is of little interest.
    The article is yet another exposition of a well-known history, but this does not detract from the fact that we Russians are Orthodox Christians. God is with us! Orthodox Christians happy holiday!
    1. Anti
      Anti 28 July 2013 14: 32 New
      +6
      Quote: Seraphim
      From this we can conclude: the people still sympathize with Orthodoxy, and all this neopaganism with Perun and Veles is of little interest.


      brave claim..
      1. Seraph
        Seraph 29 July 2013 22: 17 New
        +2
        Personal long-term experience. For others, it may be different, I do not argue
    2. smile
      smile 28 July 2013 14: 37 New
      10
      Seraph
      Of course, most visitors are Orthodox. That is why we are, as you put it, largely loyal to Orthodoxy. But why should this exclude interest in the pre-Christian era, including paganism? Academic interest. For example, I believe that the exceptional primitivism of this article can only do much harm. In kindergartens, such primitivism is permissible; in a serious audience, no.
      And you with a holiday!
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 28 July 2013 16: 40 New
        +8
        I agree Vladimir. Many still have an opinion about our pagan past that is not quite adequate, thanks to modern dolblavs. They themselves perverted the concept of what paganism was. It's our story ... how can we forget our ancestors
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 29 July 2013 09: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: Gleb
          many still have an opinion about our pagan past that is not quite adequate, thanks to modern dolboslavs. who themselves perverted the concept of what paganism was

          Gleb, a more suitable word than "dolboslavs" You could not find?
          I think for the distortion of the concept of "paganism" does not need any "glory".
          For this, the pagan neophytes themselves are enough.
      2. Seraph
        Seraph 29 July 2013 22: 30 New
        +1
        For example, my interest in pre-Christian Russia never disappeared; I do not need to artificially develop it in myself. Purely academic interest: the book of Doctor of Philology, a member of the Union of Writers of Russia and an academician of the International Slavic Academy of Sciences, as well as a member of the Russian Historical Society, etc., etc., Yuri Konstantinovich Begunov, "History of Russia" in five volumes. The first volume - quite a weighty 1-page opus - is exclusively about pre-Christian Russia. And no neglect of our ancestors. And on the contrary, there is a lot of love. Naturally, how can I and other Orthodox not love my ancestors? "Honor your father and mother." Moreover, their spiritual disposition and purity of soul revealed to them Christ, whom they joyfully accepted.
        And further. The article is not for academics, that's for sure. You can read about Kartashev’s baptism of Russia, and Gumilyov has a lot of interesting things. This I exclude purely church historians. And why would you write academic articles in the format of a military site?
        And no offense will be said: Do you seriously consider the discussion in the comments a matter of "serious audience" ???)))
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 28 July 2013 21: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: Seraphim
      From this we can conclude: the people still sympathize with Orthodoxy

      So it is, but this obsessive advertisement of Orthodoxy is somewhat annoying. Moreover, they remember Orthodoxy in place and out of place, they refuse atheists and the Russian state positive advantages.
      1. Seraph
        Seraph 29 July 2013 22: 54 New
        0
        Any intrusive advertising annoys me. But not having a television a long time ago, I somehow avoid it. And in other media (radio on the road, the Internet) I don’t notice the dominance of “Orthodoxy advertising” (except for such disgusting “snacks” followed by orgy, a story with a clock and a drunken hieromonk on a Mercedes, sucked from all sides by liberal media).
        I’ll tell you with great confidence that a sincere Christian, a person who is in thoughts and deeds with Christ, will NEVER consciously stick out, “advertise” his beliefs, etc. .. You yourself say: “AND REMEMBER Orthodoxy and out of place ... . ". Ask yourself: are the Orthodox (and not the mummers) really so stupid that meeting inadvertently both here and there, posing in front of everyone and everything, spending energy and resources that are unusual for their main occupations and their religion, are ready to constantly receive head off from the secular part of our people and continue in the same spirit? Are you too primitivizing us? Someone out of place "recalls" Orthodoxy. These are precisely those who toss beads ... Consciously tosses to sow enmity among our people.
        As a citizen of my country, I respect her history, her culture, my people and my language. But when I see and hear a boorish attitude towards some part of what is dear to me, I cannot help but stand up for it (this is a warning of possible reproaches for my energetic debate with the anti-Christians. NB! I repeat: with those who are not ready to pour mud Christ and His Church, we will find a common language - we will have enough common problems and similar tasks for decades to come)
        Sincerely, Abbot Seraphim
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 30 July 2013 01: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Seraphim
          I repeat once again: with those who are not ready to pour mud on Christ and His Church,

          Let us separate the flies from the cutlets, Christ alone, "his church" alone.
          An interesting question is, who managed the church treasury before our church became autocephalous? But these are huge sums for that period, tithing of everything.
  • Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 28 July 2013 14: 26 New
    -5
    Someday, the fact that Russia, Russia is the birthplace of not only Orthodoxy, but also of Christianity in general will become generally recognized.
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 28 July 2013 18: 19 New
      +2
      Do not dishonor Christians (and Orthodox in particular) by such statements.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 July 2013 22: 09 New
        -6
        Quote: fartfraer
        Do not dishonor Christians (and Orthodox in particular) by such statements.

        What is shameful here? And why can not Russia be the birthplace of Orthodoxy? Because what is it written by historians - Germans?
        Church terms in the Russian Orthodox Church are from Catholics, not from Greeks, which suggests that at first the baptism of Rus was Catholic, and only then there was a separation, but in any case the Greek Orthodox Church had nothing to do with it.
        In addition, you still need to prove who separated from whom.
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 28 July 2013 23: 13 New
          0
          "but also of Christianity in general." - yeah, and Jerusalem was a peripheral Russian city. And the Christians of the Roman Empire were emigrants from Russia. I won’t even explain it to you, anyway fanaticism is treated without explanation. Study the history of Christianity for a start, then tell everyone that it was in Russia that it originated.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 July 2013 23: 39 New
            0
            Quote: fartfraer
            study the history of Christianity first

            I’ll draw your attention to the fact that I don’t have anything about the birth of Christianity; I spoke about Orthodoxy.
            Quote: fartfraer
            all the same fanaticism is treated not by explanations

            Sorry for the indiscreet question, what fanaticism? Religious? Or maybe the fanaticism of Westerners who believe in Western history? I’ll add the most “honest” and “kind”.
            1. fartfraer
              fartfraer 28 July 2013 23: 56 New
              +2
              about the birth of Christianity, it’s really not your words. With your permission, I will redirect them to Ivan_Ivanov, and I will apologize to you about this.
              Well, and accordingly, part of the comment on fanaticism does not apply to you either, but answering your question, any fanaticism is evil.
              I apologize again for the incorrectly addressed comment
        2. Seraph
          Seraph 29 July 2013 23: 22 New
          +1
          Dear, do not shame on ignorance of the question !! What kind of "church terms in the Russian Orthodox Church" came from Catholics ?! Why are you shocking the public ?!
          Is the Liturgy our main service from Catholics? Is the Eucharist our main sacrament from Catholics? Is the patriarch our primate from Catholics? All of our Ecumenical Councils, the Symbol of Faith and canons adopted at them, are also from Catholics?
          If you consider the "church term" of the priest on a Mercedes, you are even forced to agree: "Mercedes" is really a Catholic or Protestant term. Although, to a much greater extent, atheistic, and soon very Muslim at all.
          And the priest, on a Mercedes, anyway, will be taken to clean water))
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 30 July 2013 01: 28 New
            -1
            Quote: Seraphim
            What kind of "church terms in the Russian Orthodox Church" came from Catholics ?! Why are you shocking the public ?!

            Maybe the word "terms" is not entirely true, words, but these words are known to all - the cross, the altar, the church.
            Quote: Seraphim
            I’m even forced to agree: Mercedes is really a Catholic or Protestant term.

            How sad! Mercedes is a name, and only then - a cart with ICE.
            Quote: Seraphim
            Is the Liturgy our main service from Catholics? Is the Eucharist our main sacrament from Catholics?

            That church officials do not die of modesty (do not forget, there is such a virtue), what words, the main service, the main sacrament! The main mystery is in the heads of people, and all these round dances in the church are nothing more than dances with a tambourine by the fire
          2. Furnace driver
            Furnace driver 1 August 2013 14: 29 New
            -1
            Quote: Seraphim
            Dear, do not shame on ignorance of the question !! What kind of "church terms in the Russian Orthodox Church" came from Catholics ?! Why are you shocking the public ?!

            given that Christianity in Greece appeared according to official history even before the collapse of the Roman Empire, such a conclusion suggests itself.
    2. Arkan
      Arkan 28 July 2013 19: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      Someday, the fact that Russia, Russia is the birthplace of not only Orthodoxy, but also of Christianity in general will become generally recognized.

      To Prince Vladimir, in order for the Russian Church to become apostolic (received grace from one of the apostles) and not autocephalous (received grace from another church and dependent on it), the Byzantine emperors had to be convinced that the apostle Andrew went from the thousand years before the baptism of Russia I preached "Greeks to the Varangians ... They didn’t believe (I wouldn’t believe it either), and in order for this scientific fact to gain weight, Vladimir captured several Byzantine colonies on the Black Sea, and rebelled in Constantinople ... Of course, you can to prove to the whole World that Russia is the birthplace of Christianity, for this you just need to bomb Rome, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, someone else ... But why all this? (when you can just bomb) laughing
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Seraph
      Seraph 29 July 2013 23: 08 New
      +2
      I am amazed: what a storm of commentary this sarcastically provocative statement made with a clear anti-church (or anti-religious, or anti-Orthodox, or anti-clerical, as you please)) odogloss.
      Ivanov_Ivanov from me: 5 for the skills of a propagandist and complete disagreement with such a formulation of the question. We, the Russian Orthodox, never climbed into the very, very, and certainly no such nonsense (such as "the birthplace of Christianity"), did not say!
      After the fall of Constantinople - yes, of course, we became the center of the Eastern Orthodox civilization, its protection and support. All the rest were under Muslims - Turks, Arabs and Persians, and we just got rid of Mongolian guardianship. How else could we be aware of ourselves? Third Rome and no other way. Just no talk about the "homeland of Christianity" in this case is not
  • Ross
    Ross 28 July 2013 14: 49 New
    +7
    Quote: GEORGE
    As a wise politician, the prince understood that the savagery of paganism had outlived its age. Rampant behavior, lack of unity of people

    How strange, Svyatoslav led the wild, rampant and fragmented Slavs into military campaigns, and won brilliant victories. And the version of the bloody sacrifice that prompted the prince (a warrior raised by warriors) to change his religion, looks in my eyes, to put it mildly untruthfully.


    It is not true, because pure propaganda based on official church materials and not on historical scientific research. There is a lot of evidence that our ancestors before baptism (which also went hundreds of years!) Were not "wild animals" living in dugouts.
  • Ross
    Ross 28 July 2013 15: 02 New
    -2
    Quote: GEORGE
    Quote: Vovka L.
    That's just the point, one could just congratulate the Christians, and not try to pour dirt on them in comments.
    why all these pearls, they just ruined everything.

    It was possible, only I am an opponent of those "zadvigons" who are trying to introduce, using a significant event.

    Such articles by thinking people make us horrified how aptly someone pits us
  • Ross
    Ross 28 July 2013 15: 06 New
    +5
    Quote: Asan Ata
    Religion change is probably a major blow to culture and language. Kazakhs converted to Islam a few hundred years ago. The adoption of Islam led to the destruction of monuments and religious buildings of Tengrianism, the ancient religion of the Steppe. Knowledge of runic writing, for example, was lost. Fortunately, ancient steles were preserved deep in the steppe, on which, later, inscriptions were found in runic writing. This alphabet can be learned today, is in nete. One enlightened Yakut, when meeting with a friend of mine, said: "You, Kazakhs, have been praying in a foreign language for several hundred years, calling God by a foreign name, he simply will not recognize you." And in fact, the troubles for my people began precisely in those times ... On one ancient stele of the Turkic Hagan an inscription was preserved in a runic letter: "O great Turkic people, live and be glorified for centuries, great Turkic people." Russia, with the advent of Christianity, abandoned paganism by destroying the cult and cultural heritage of its ancestors. How did this affect the people? Christianity separated Russia from the Steppe, on the one hand, giving passionary ideas, on the other hand, breaking contact with the ancestral home forever. And only today in the textbooks on the history of Russia, the historical connection is clearly visible: Scythians-Turkic Kaganate-Russian statehood.


    Very accurate remark, 1000 +++. I hope someday most of us will understand this, that the loss of the roots, the heritage of our ancestors and their glory, of our past leads us astray.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 28 July 2013 15: 07 New
    +2
    A significant event, in general, all the adoption of religions (Islam, Christianity of Kievan Rus and other examples) was usually accompanied by rallying. Although Rome fell apart. However, my personal attitude to the religions of the world is skeptical. Without giving up their significance in world history and culture --- for me all this is expressed in one phrase by I.I. P. "How much opium is for the people?"
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 29 July 2013 00: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: Cristall
      A significant event, in general, all the adoption of religions (Islam, Christianity of Kievan Rus and other examples) was usually accompanied by rallying.

      And what about the adoption of Islam, all the countries in which they accepted it rallied into a single Caliphate ??? So they are still fighting each other.
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 29 July 2013 07: 54 New
        +3
        Well, the fact that under the influence of the new religion the Arabs created the Caliphate, defeating one superpower and severely crippling the other, is a fact.
        True, one can meet the opinion that the cause of the death of Rome was Christianity, but there were so many problems, and the mine was laid much earlier.
    2. Seraph
      Seraph 29 July 2013 23: 38 New
      +1
      Old Rome collapsed, rotten, shamelessly for children and peasants, hungry for the blood of gladiators and the flesh of slaves. And the New Rome, built by the Roman Emperor Constantine, stood on the foundations of Orthodoxy and autocracy, in fact, another thousand years
      And one more thing: I absolutely sincerely sympathize with you, because you relate to the religions of the world, I think about the Christianity that shaped our people and their culture, you put in one phrase the wonderful Odessa citizen Iekhiel-Leiba Arievich Fayzinberg (aka Ilya Ilf). I do not diminish his talent, but nevertheless ... I doubt that the Jews are building their attitude towards Judaism on the basis of the expressions and quotes "goyim"
    3. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 5 August 2013 00: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: Cristall
      for me, all this is expressed in one phrase by I. and P. "How much opium is for the people?"

      Religion is an instrument of control through consciousness, on a “voluntary” basis.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 July 2013 15: 11 New
    +8
    As it happened today, two articles, Tsar Batu and the Baptism of Rus — the beginning and foundation of the Russian state — came out on the same day. an interesting coincidence.

    “If you openly admit that there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke. Then it turns out that how bloody was the baptism of Russia, questions will arise, and what happened before Christianization, why people resisted for so long. Everyone will start talking more about the Vedic worldview. Of course the church does not need this. it’s easier to manage a sleeping herd. but the truth will still find a way. Someday they will start talking about it openly. "

    This comment is ours on one forum, your opinion would be terribly interesting.
    I respect the faith of any person, but also ask for respect for my own.
    Happy holiday.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Anti
        Anti 28 July 2013 15: 58 New
        +5
        Quote: Marrying
        Someone else's faith can be respected, BUT it should be worthy of respect.


        professing Islam, they will answer you, I hope, but what deserved the disrespect of the faith of the ancestors, Rusich?
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 28 July 2013 22: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Marrying
        If Islam goes on a peaceful track, then this religion can be respected, but for now .. alas.

        The USA end companies that sponsor Islamic terrorism should go on a peaceful footing. Moreover, Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.
        1. Zhenya
          Zhenya 28 July 2013 22: 19 New
          0
          At the moment, I don’t see the difference between these two concepts, my generation went through the Chechen conflict and there our guys laid their heads for this religion.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 July 2013 22: 54 New
            +1
            Quote: Marrying
            my generation went through the Chechen conflict

            My generation is an indefinite concept. Have you personally fought in Chechnya?
            1. Zhenya
              Zhenya 28 July 2013 23: 07 New
              -2
              God pardoned the glory of God, but does this change anything? Is it really necessary to be there to form an opinion? I have a friend with whom if he gets drunk, it’s better not to sit next to him, his head bounces off, everywhere the “Czechs” seem.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 28 July 2013 23: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: Marrying
                God pardoned the glory of God, but does this change anything?

                It changes EVERYTHING, you just don’t know anything about this issue, personal experience is priceless, but you do not have personal experience in dealing with representatives of Islam.
          2. Asan Ata
            Asan Ata 28 July 2013 23: 03 New
            +5
            Because you are a product of the influence of US policy, oddly enough. Anti-Islamic wars of the 20-21 century - there is a redivision of the world. Moreover, redistribution is not constructive, but destructive. It seems that all this is part of the play "The Golden Billion" - the destruction of the state structure to create a permanent mess that will permanently push the country away from civilized life, thereby, on the one hand, allowing them to use their mineral resources with impunity, on the other hand, it will slow down the country's development for a long time, and, accordingly, resource consumption. Think about how aggressive the word "Islamist" is for you. But in Russian it means only adherent of Islam. That is, any Muslim is a terrorist. To drag such a word into your head - it was worth a lot, I’ll tell you, and it’s too expensive for some terrorists. Yes, and - remember the recent heroic act of a guy who saved two Russian girls who were drowning in a river at the cost of his life. Being a Muslim. By man. A hero.
            1. Zhenya
              Zhenya 28 July 2013 23: 13 New
              -1
              Opinion is not composed of isolated cases, but general statistics are taken, and alas, it is not in favor of guys from another religion who heroically acted and deserve honor and praise. You see, my generation has grown up in eternal conflicts, where they killed for the glory of Allah, excuse me for the truth.
          3. fartfraer
            fartfraer 28 July 2013 23: 21 New
            +7
            "and there our guys laid their heads for this religion." - do not attribute to your religion what it has nothing to do with it. the soldiers did not go there for religious reasons. By the way, many Muslims (from Russia) died there. Also for your religion? and what did the atheists die for? Then you would ascribe to them “incredible godliness, they gave their lives for God?” 2005 in our company (ppd n. Borzoy) there were 1 (one) Orthodox and a bunch of Muslims (about 12 soldiers). the rest didn’t position themselves side by side with any religion. moreover, among them there were enough people who fought in the second, and a couple of people in the first Chechen wars.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 28 July 2013 15: 27 New
    +9
    After a short time, Kievan Rus was baptized.

    Allegation. What does short mean?
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 28 July 2013 16: 34 New
      0
      Quote: pinecone
      Allegation. What does short mean?

      Something about 120 years after the baptism of Kiev. smile
  • sarmat-4791
    sarmat-4791 28 July 2013 15: 39 New
    +3
    The attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church to the people can be found in the video "The Great Tartaria - the Empire of the Rus", where at the very beginning, Patriarch Kirill speaks very "good" words about us
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 July 2013 22: 17 New
      0
      Quote: sarmat-4791
      The attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church to the people can be found in the video "The Great Tartaria - the Empire of the Rus", where at the very beginning, Patriarch Kirill speaks very "good" words about us

      Ah how ugly you are doing!
      Patriarch Kirill says look what they write about US, Russians in the West, this is not his opinion, and then he refutes OPINION OF THE WEST.
      1. sarmat-4791
        sarmat-4791 31 July 2013 00: 26 New
        -1
        then I would like to see his interview in full, do not tell me where?
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 1 August 2013 15: 40 New
          -2
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaywUHzR8b8
          About thirty-six minutes, the patriarch says there, "in fact, we were never barbarians," before which he speaks of the position of the church on Slavic barbarians.
          1. Light source
            Light source 2 August 2013 14: 09 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaywUHzR8b8
            About thirty-six minutes, the patriarch says there, "in fact, we were never barbarians," before which he speaks of the position of the church on Slavic barbarians.

            Well, there are second-class people, for example, among the peoples of Western Europe or among the Jews.
          2. sarmat-4791
            sarmat-4791 2 August 2013 21: 57 New
            -1
            an interesting interview is obtained - first the official position of the church (And who were the Slavs? These are barbarians, people who speak an incomprehensible language, these are second-class people, these are almost animals.), then - distancing ourselves from these words (because once we were barbarians, but in fact they were never barbarians). I got confused (the question was generally about the Russian north). So where is the truth?
            1. sarmat-4791
              sarmat-4791 10 August 2013 20: 09 New
              0
              it’s a pity that they could not listen to the head of the transport department ...
  • nezloy
    nezloy 28 July 2013 15: 40 New
    0
    In the Middle Ages, Poland, neighboring Russia, was given a shelter on kicks by the first printer expelled from Russia, Ivan Fedorov. In neighboring and impoverished Poland there were Copernicus and the University of Krakow. And what happened in Russia at that time? Where are the Orthodox Leonardo da Vinci? Galen? Levenguk? There is nothing. Only fat priests, prayer books and requisitions. If you congratulate each other on this, then the flag is in your hands.
    1. smile
      smile 28 July 2013 18: 08 New
      +6
      nezloy
      The population of the "Beggars" of Poland in the time of Fedorov exceeded four to five times the population of Russia. This was one of the coolest states in Europe, and at that time we were just gathering our state in a fierce fight for the very existence of an ethnic group with the same Poles or, for example, with Crimeans ... all the more or less serious achievements of European scientists were based on crumbs, what remained of the Greeks, Romans, or, for example, Arabs and Persians ... we were isolated from this knowledge ... by the way, the scientific part of the program in our theological educational institutions was not inferior to anything, and often exceeded what was taught at European universities. ..in any case, our population - for example, in Novgorod, demonstrated almost universal literacy long before the time you touched (as evidenced by the tens of thousands of birch bark letters with business and household correspondence that have survived to this day ...) at a time when Europe - on the contrary, total illiteracy reigned even among the nobility ... remember the sufferings of Anna Yaroslavna. married French King Henry 1 Capetting? She turned out to be the only competent person at the court .... so that you should not smear drool on the dish ...

      And in Europe there were European priests, who were fat and godless, who sold indulgences, tens of thousands of people burned at the stake, organized predatory, predatory wars, accompanied by elements of genocide under the banner of the Crusades ... Roman popes often were the monsters that the atrocities of the Assyrians, Alexander of Macedon and the Iron Chroma fade before their deeds ... Our priests, in comparison with others, are just holy people ....
  • SLAVA
    SLAVA 28 July 2013 16: 23 New
    0
    Regarding the use of the word "Orthodoxy", if anyone is interested !!! http: //poiskpravdy.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/pravoslavie/
  • Hleb
    Hleb 28 July 2013 16: 24 New
    +3
    wow stripping comments. straight the latest series of crusades
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 28 July 2013 16: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Gleb
      wow stripping comments. straight the latest series of crusades

      It would be interesting to read. Moderators discard in PM, if left.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 28 July 2013 17: 03 New
        -1
        so I also can’t understand. What kind of strictness in moderation. I somehow asked about the propaganda criteria in order to roughly understand what is "heresy" now and what is "allowed to Jupiter", but they didn’t explain. Let's say this video is a violation?
        1. Sasha1273
          Sasha1273 28 July 2013 17: 15 New
          +2
          This is incitement of hostility. For example, people’s wedding and passers-by come to the wedding and begin to tell everyone about the shortcomings of the bride and groom, do you think this is permissible? And here there are believers who have a holiday and pouring dirt into their souls is disgusting.
          1. Hleb
            Hleb 28 July 2013 17: 30 New
            +5
            what is the incitement to? where is there even a word for insult or untruth? do you call those who were born in the USSR guests at someone else's wedding? for their doubts and how they were brought up? and how many did you take on? do you already look like the hosts of the event? than then you differ from those whom you oppose? where is tolerance and dialogue? where is the controversy? I ask again, what is the dirt casting into the souls, in my example? do you finally want to convince, enlighten, explain ... or force? including? speak, explain, preach, but do not judge and do not punish for questions and opinions ...
            mind I'm not atheist
            1. Sasha1273
              Sasha1273 28 July 2013 17: 35 New
              -3
              Yes, the whole topic is full of insults, if you did not want this, then I'm sorry.
        2. MG42
          MG42 28 July 2013 17: 30 New
          +4
          The Soviet film will always be on the side of science, why this video? Especially on holiday?
          The difference between the usual marriage in the registry office and the wedding in the church, those who were married according to statistics, such marriages are more durable, and you can sign in the registry office as many times as you like to get married in the church.
          There both the underworld and the soul argue endlessly between the believer and the atheist ..

          Celebrations in Kiev on the occasion of the 1025th anniversary of the Baptism of Russia
          1. Hleb
            Hleb 28 July 2013 17: 40 New
            +2
            if it weren’t for the cons, I’d talk normally. And so you can see your complacency on the holiday. The methods have not changed over the millennium
            1. MG42
              MG42 28 July 2013 17: 46 New
              +1
              Quote: Gleb
              if not for the cons, I would talk normally

              I put you only one <minus>. On Holiday, why break the spears?
              1. Hleb
                Hleb 28 July 2013 17: 51 New
                +2
                I’m talking about that. Do you observe Orthodox traditions on a holiday? Punish rebellious minus? Crusades are not forgotten?
                I am not against the minuses, but today. in this topic. when you are a supporter, a defender of dogmas that in your opinion are good and do not call for coercion and censure, how strange does it look. Doesn’t it?
                1. MG42
                  MG42 28 July 2013 17: 58 New
                  +6
                  Yes, no one I do not punish. Just do not agree. You can minus me. How did the topic of religion begin "srach", never got involved in it, but when they removed the comment "Anti" where he shouted like this <glory to Perun!> In this century, are you talking about stripping and crusades?
                  1. Hleb
                    Hleb 28 July 2013 18: 02 New
                    0
                    By the way, I did not see his comment. But if he was castrated for believing in Perun .. I still do not understand. He believes, well, let him believe. Maybe he offended anyone? I did not see what was written
                    1. Sasha1273
                      Sasha1273 28 July 2013 18: 11 New
                      -1
                      If on May 9 someone near the Eternal Fire shouts <Hitler’s greeting> then should he be evacuated from there, asked not to say this? In general, a strange situation, do you agree that LGBT people marched in Moscow? On what example to explain that it is not good to offend people's feelings?
                      1. fartfraer
                        fartfraer 28 July 2013 18: 31 New
                        +1
                        and if on May 9 someone thanks De Gaulle? what to do with him? and you don’t offend the feelings of people who believe in other gods, celebrating the day of the beginning of the destruction of the original Slavic religion? I’ll open a terrible secret, I could communicate both on Muslim forums and in Orthodox. so rudeness was seen only in Orthodox forums, I was even banned for asking where the Negroes, Chinese, etc. came from, if God created man in his own image, then at least there should be one race. as people, and as you hear enough before talking about faith, you begin to wonder how Orthodoxy (or rather Christianity in general) can position itself as a “peaceful religion.” The only Christians who seem to me to be true non-possessive believers.
                        Well, something like this.
                    2. MG42
                      MG42 28 July 2013 18: 32 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Gleb
                      by the way I did not see his comment. but if he was castrated for his faith in Perun

                      Well, ask him, the network is full of pictures offensive and about Perun, well, no one uploads them
                      Quote: Gleb
                      I don’t understand anyway. Well, he believes, well, let him believe. Maybe he offended anyone? I didn’t see what was written

                      Well, if you didn’t see why talk about <crusades>
                      Anti said <glory to Perun !!!!! ......>, he was answered <come from .....> so what can I call it except <srach> on this thread?
                2. Sasha1273
                  Sasha1273 28 July 2013 18: 00 New
                  +1
                  I did not give you a minus. Although as I see you do not mind smile
                  This is a theme for the Orthodox as a reminder, for those who doubt it as an affirmation and simply as a congratulation. Well, do not believe in God, your right, no one is pouring dirt on you, why do we not have the right to believe?
                  Although it’s a sin for a Christian to be offended, they crucified Christ, but for us sinners, what can we hope for?
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. smile
        smile 28 July 2013 18: 13 New
        0
        baltika-18
        Nope, they won’t, they are greedy, they save for themselves .. collect. :)))
  • SLAVA
    SLAVA 28 July 2013 16: 32 New
    +1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDcw9pgjWao
  • Lexagun
    Lexagun 28 July 2013 17: 05 New
    12
    I’m not a believer, at least call me an atheist, even a believer in the absence of God, as you please,

    But it never crossed my mind to deny that I grew up in the field of Orthodox culture. Moreover, strangely enough, I share the majority of Christian Orthodox values. Not so much because I tend to take them on faith, but because I share them as the experience of generations. as collective rules for the survival of a society where the public is higher than the personal.
    But at the same time, I clearly understand the obsolescence of the church, its archaism, and this article is a beautiful illustration of this.

    Any serious, even the slightest, immersion in documents of that era will successfully demonstrate that we do not really understand how it was, Baptism, happened, what was its motivation, and even when it happened. Why was Vladimir appointed instead of Olga? What did Bishop Adalbert do in Kiev. Why did Konstantin Bagryanorodny offer Olga (a clear Christian, but most likely Arian) to change her denomination (see K.B. or for example Krutitsky Compound. And in general, why Russian Orthodoxy is so very different from other "Orthodoxy", why there is a third book of рыdra in our bible, why church terms are roughly equally divided by their origin into Latin and Greek. What are the real reasons for the split and reforms of Nikon, which meant the concept of a twin god and its connection with Arianism. Why did centuries before 16 in Russia in the church (Orthodox) turn to God - Allah? and these questions have no numbers with answers that would satisfy common sense as intense.

    In many knowledge, many sorrows ..... excuse me for quoting. And the published article does not provide for knowledge - only faith. It’s about how we all today absolutely “know” what we write in Cyrillic and, consequently, its author Cyril with his “brother” Methodius, and he even became a monk only 50 days before his death, being detained by the Pontiff maximus (so to speak the Pope like Rimsky) where he reported just about the unsuccessful treatment of the Russians, whom for some reason (maybe they lived there?) he turned in the Crimea. We turn to Christ with the name Jesus, although Matthew did it differently - Emmanuel and there are no numbers for our delusions - because our laziness and vain gullibility know no bounds.

    But immersion in the archaic is inevitable if we do not create a new state ideology, which may well be based on Christian, including Orthodox, values.

    A blunder this whole tinsel zadolbal already.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 28 July 2013 17: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Lexagun
      But immersion in archaic is inevitable if we do not create a new state ideology,

      You wrote a great comment.
      And they made the right conclusion. Thank you. good
    2. MG42
      MG42 28 July 2013 17: 42 New
      +4
      Lexagun
      Why do you write the word God with a small one, and Allah with a capital letter?
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 28 July 2013 17: 55 New
        +5
        maybe because he was born in the USSR and writes it just like: "tractor driver Peter"
        if he wrote the name, he would have written with a capital-Jesus
        you understand that Allah is God and his spelling does not hint at any neglect. we were taught a lot in school like this, and today we write differently
      2. Lexagun
        Lexagun 28 July 2013 18: 01 New
        +4
        k MG42
        yes to me no difference with small or big
        if you want it like this: God and Allah, or God and Allah, God and Allah, I am deeply believing in condescension and sympathy, do not consider it to be rudeness or insult, although I suspect that this is what you will consider.
        But my attitude to the god of faith and other characters does not correlate with my attitude to the value approach in relation to morality.

        From my point of view, in order to be honest, moral, moral and to love your homeland, it is not at all necessary to be a believer in any god. And the imposition of one "only true" in the opinion of clerics of morality, morality, claims to the "truth from God" are inadequate to say the least, especially for educated people.
        1. MG42
          MG42 28 July 2013 20: 47 New
          +5
          Quote: Lexagun
          yes to me no difference with small or big
          if you want it like this: God and Allah, or God and Allah, God and Allah, I am deeply believing in condescension and sympathy, do not consider it to be rudeness or insult, although I suspect that this is what you will consider.

          Yes, I do not need to sympathize. winked My wife and I went recently to Svyatogorsk. When you visit temples you will understand .. There you breathe very easily and the air is saturated with grace ..
          1. Lexagun
            Lexagun 28 July 2013 22: 27 New
            +4
            K MG42
            Well, you do not want sympathy and thank God (the figure of speech, however). And imagine and in Svyatogorsk there was, for a long time the truth, both in Zagorsk and in the Kiev Pechora Lavra, and even participated in excavations at the Krutitsky Compound. And how many times he traveled around the Golden Ring and, accordingly, the monasteries and temples along this route and did not count (Pokrova made a special impression on the Nerl in the flood), but by the way, you don’t have to leave Moscow especially to visit the temples. And imagine in the temples, especially in the existing ones, specific sensations really arise. But let me what is this amazing or divine? They were actually designed to impress, designed, built and designed. So there are impressions, but how should this lead to faith? And what kind of faith is this which is based on the “impression” of air infused with incense? For some reason, it seemed to me that believers should have more reasons.

            But by the way, dear MG42, I am not an enemy to you and we are not arguing about that. and articles like this do the church more harm than good, because it’s not about faith and not about God but about stupidity. You at least analyze the title. In full accordance with the laws of logic, this name implies that there was no statehood in Russia before the adoption of Christianity, this is on the one hand, and on the other hand, you might think that you just have to accept Orthodoxy and statehood begins immediately. wink And this is just the name, and then comes, as it were, a text full of cliches and platitudes and, as it were, softer to say - inaccuracies. Why be surprised that he causes irritation?

            I’ll also draw your attention to the fact that I am not against Christianity (I have already explained my point of view on this issue - a generalization of important collective experience) and, moreover, Orthodoxy. It is part of our heritage, culture, therefore part of us, if we identify with this culture. But the nationalization of Orthodoxy (what is happening now) is rather a step back, and this applies not only to Orthodoxy, but to all religions. new ideology required new “collective survival technology” required
            1. MG42
              MG42 28 July 2013 22: 45 New
              +2
              If you still remove a piece of your post about sympathy, and the Lavra in our Ukraine, Kiev-Pecеrskaya ..
              Quote: Lexagun
              But let me what is this amazing or divine? They were actually designed to impress, designed, built and designed. So there are impressions, but how should this lead to faith?

              I don’t know, to each his own .. I can tell about myself .. there was a stone in the right kidney and a lot of sand, it bothered me periodically, severe pain and pain medication did not work with renal colic, about 1 cm and increased every millimeter every year .., went to the temple , repented of his sins, asked for forgiveness, and literally 3 weeks later he came out naturally, and the sand also >>> did not even have to be operated ..
              Coincidence? Probably wrote too much ..
              Quote: Lexagun
              But by the way, dear MG42, I am not an enemy to you

              Yes, and I’m not your enemy ..
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 28 July 2013 21: 11 New
            -1
            MG42, since we are talking about us sinners, I’ll ask you a couple of simple questions that I couldn’t find an answer in the past, and therefore decided that Prince Vladimir was as atheist as I. First, how much does Christian morality fit in with Christian morality did Prince Vladimir disperse none of his three harems (there were approximately 300 concubines each), either after his baptism or after marrying the Byzantine princess? And why, after the death of Vladimir, did the church refuse to rank him as a saint for more than three hundred years?
            1. MG42
              MG42 28 July 2013 21: 46 New
              +6
              Harems = pagan remnants. Vladimir returned from Korsun, completely different, transformed, for it was not a baptized pagan. but a deeply religious Christian. He fights with carnal passion and disperses the harem.
              The 2nd question is provocative.
              May the Lord be Judge to Prince Vladimir. He will justly take into account all circumstances and motives, for He knew the thoughts of Vladimir, knew his heart.
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 28 July 2013 22: 11 New
                0
                Quote: MG42
                Harems = pagan remnants. Vladimir returned from Korsun, completely different, transformed, for it was not a baptized pagan. but a deeply religious Christian. He fights with carnal passion and disperses the harem.

                Don’t invent it, he didn’t disperse them at all. Well, on the account of where Vladimir was baptized - there is no definite answer and most likely it was not Korsun. In the absence of telephone - to inform the emperor brothers about the seizure of their cities (and put forward conditions) , wait for the answer, and then the embassy - taking into account the shipping possibilities of that time, the gimmick for several months. Not everyone believes that Vladimir has been in the captured city all this time ...
                Quote: MG42
                2nd question is provocative

                Actually, this is a fact and not a provocation (in contrast to the post that you have already deleted). Do you have an answer?
                1. MG42
                  MG42 28 July 2013 22: 27 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Arkan
                  Don’t invent it, he didn’t disperse them at all. Well, on the account of where Vladimir was baptized - there is no definite answer and most likely it was not Korsun

                  Don’t invent it yourself ..
                  Quote: Arkan
                  Do you have an answer?

                  Yes, but I’m not going to answer. Prince Vladimir was counted among the saints and he was called "Equal-to-the-Apostles>, this is the main thing, the date in this case is secondary ..
                  Quote: Arkan
                  unlike the post that you have already deleted

                  Deleted, because I have every right to do so ..
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 28 July 2013 22: 40 New
                    -1
                    Quote: MG42
                    Yes, but I’m not going to answer

                    I have no more questions.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        3. MG42
          MG42 28 July 2013 21: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: Lexagun
          And the imposition of one "only true" in the opinion of clerics of morality, morality, claims to the "truth from God" are inadequate to say the least, especially for educated people.

          I wonder who is imposing? On the branch, in my opinion, there are more atheists and pagans than Orthodox Christians ..
          There will be a branch about Perun, for example, there I will not leave any comments, pluses or minuses ..
    3. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 28 July 2013 23: 21 New
      +4
      One little comment. In the rules of communication, it is easier to call the Constitution, Genghis Khan "Zhasak", they are also called "Iasi" ("do it" - literally from Turkic) there is a provision prohibiting entry into ANY religious institution with arms, for violation - death. So Genghis Khan established peace between faiths. By the way, there is such a rule there - a traveler, in spite of his rank, is obliged to sit down, taste food and say hello to another traveler who sat down for lunch on the side of the road. Failure is death. Thus, class conflict has been reduced.
    4. Sunscorpion
      Sunscorpion 29 July 2013 03: 37 New
      0
      Well said, though I repeat, I share faith and religion - these are two different things, or rather, I don’t recognize religion at all. Honestly, I have not read such a reasonable and logical comment for a long time, most of them immediately begin to turn to personalities, rather than think and analyze. Good luck
    5. radio operator
      radio operator 1 August 2013 09: 17 New
      -1
      Quote: Lexagun
      Any serious, even the slightest, immersion in documents of that era will successfully demonstrate that we do not really understand how it was, Baptism, happened, what was its motivation, and even when it happened. Why.....

      Dear, the Russian Orthodox Church answers all these questions. And he answers quite reasonably.
      But if you start taking, without comprehension, what RenTV and other liberal media broadcasts are broadcasting to us, then you can ask questions endlessly on the same question.
  • Light source
    Light source 28 July 2013 17: 21 New
    +4
    The Romans resisted baptism until Christians fell into power.
    In Rome, there were statues of naked people. And Christians are closed people.
    At that time, people were even more cruel than during the time of the genocide of the Indians.
    The first Christians were southern temperamental peoples.
    Constantine - a Christian moved the capital to Byzantium and planted Christianity in Rome also from above.
    And after 65 years, the country broke up.

    There was such a state - Russia ...
    1. Sasha1273
      Sasha1273 28 July 2013 17: 32 New
      +1
      Byzantium existed for almost 1000 years, what kind of 65 are you writing about?
      1. Light source
        Light source 29 July 2013 13: 09 New
        0
        From transferring the capital.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 28 July 2013 18: 56 New
    +4
    I read the comments, "talked" with some local characters. The obvious fact - people who do not believe in anything, people for whom there are no authorities and truths that dispute everything and everything - the majority on this site. The troubled times have come. I want to remind everyone of the words of one character from the movie "Muslim": "Do not believe in Christ - do not believe, do not believe in Allah - do not believe, but then Satan will come and you will believe him."
    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 28 July 2013 19: 01 New
      +4
      is Satan there?
    2. Arkan
      Arkan 28 July 2013 19: 51 New
      +3
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      I read the comments, "talked" with some local characters. The obvious fact - people who do not believe in anything, people for whom there are no authorities and truths that dispute everything and everything - the majority on this site. The troubled times have come.

      Well, not quite like that. There are simply people who pay attention to details, but there are those who blindly believe in something and demand the same from others.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. tixon444
      tixon444 28 July 2013 22: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Pinochet000
      Provocative article, no?


      No, an article for students of a parish school, a repost from the site of the Church of All Saints of the Peter and Paul and Bulaev Diocese, Kazakhstan. http://hvs.kz/
  • Black
    Black 28 July 2013 20: 03 New
    +2
    The adoption of Christianity by the Holy Prince Vladimir, his baptism of the Russian people - a feat equal to the feat of the holy apostles.

    World religions fought for hearts and souls.
    It so happened that we "fell" into Orthodoxy. (Wasn’t there a struggle with him in the 10th-13th centuries? In Tartaria ...)
    But what happened does not return to that. Now we need to stand and defend the faith, for It is the FAITH of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers.
  • Sunscorpion
    Sunscorpion 28 July 2013 20: 55 New
    +4
    In fairness, it is worth noting that the middle name of Vladimir "Red Sun" was interpreted by the church from Vladimir Bloody - the nickname that the survivors gave him to hide the 9 corpses that cost the so-called baptism (and this is in less than 000 years, By the way, they were then simply “hanged” on the so-called “Mongol-Tatar invasion” again) and this despite the fact that the entire population of Kievan Rus at that time was estimated by historians as approximately 0000 people. For those who do not know, until the middle of the 20th century, i.e. "Split", faith in Russia was called Orthodox, and not Orthodox, since the word "Orthodoxy" is two-root and means the concept of Right and praise. This has nothing to do with orthodox Christianity; just look at how this religion is positioned in foreign sources. It's just that Patriarch Nikon came up with how to finally deceive the population, which for the most part remained Orthodox, in the modern sense of the Gentiles. Although again, this is a misinterpretation.
    Over the centuries, many concepts have been deliberately distorted or replaced, and this was done for obvious reasons to any sane person. And what we have now can be called rather double faith, a hybrid of Christian and Orthodox rites. Every single Christian holiday was adopted from "paganism" (I’ll return to this concept) and are celebrated on the same days, just under the other names, except for Shrovetide — no matter how hard they tried to ban it at all — it was not possible, it was necessary to shift it by two weeks from for the post. Our ancestors never called themselves Gentiles. The word pagan literally meant a person of a different language, a stranger, because globalization was not even mentioned. Before, they did not even speak what kind of tribe you are, but what language you are, i.e. where are you from, from what places? Each and every old church stands on the site of temples, it is understandable, people are bony in thinking by nature and will come along a trodden path, not without reason they say - a prayer place, in the modern concept - a place of power.
    Another church myth was massive bloody sacrifices. Any person who begins to investigate these issues in the slightest degree will simply be horrified by the enormous lies that the preachers have simply crushed people for hundreds of years. For that matter, the Orthodox can shed blood only in three cases: protecting his life and the life of loved ones, protecting his homeland and his own - taking an oath. Naturally, there are no rules without exceptions, but talking about established such traditions is simply ridiculous.
    I do not want to offend the feelings of truly believing people, but faith and religion are two different things. Unfortunately, the institution of any religion is a business, and very profitable. If you want to be rich - create your own business, you want to be very rich - create your own bank, if you want to own the world - create your religion. Therefore, think, weigh and evaluate everything that is imposed on you, they say and write, and especially when they say: take it "on faith." Everyone has their own level of understanding, but the head is given in order to think, and not to wear a hat. But who is too lazy, it’s difficult or not, it’s not a problem. To each his own.
    PS If someone thought my judgments were harsh or unfounded - you are welcome to begin to understand these issues yourself. I can immediately say that it will take a very long time. I won’t put any magic pill in your mouth - if you want to search for information - there are libraries, archives, the Internet, publications, articles, forums, etc. It’s worse not to look for the truth diluted by falsehood, but if you have the strength to scoop up and weed out this heap of garbage, then you will be happy, just remember: Many knowledge are great misfortunes. Think, maybe you are so warm and comfortable? ...
    1. family
      family tree 28 July 2013 21: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: SunScorpion
      that hide 9 dead bodiesinto which the so-called baptism "cost" (and this for less than 20 years, by the way they were then simply "hanged" on again, the so-called "Mongol-Tatar" invasion) and this despite the fact that the entire population of Kievan Rus the moment is estimated by historians approximately in 12 million people.

      Sturgeon, all the same, needs to be cut belay
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 July 2013 23: 11 New
        -2
        Quote: perepilka
        Sturgeon, all the same, needs to be cut

        But you probably heard the parable about how they cut out everyone who is above the cartwheel? so this is not about the Mongol-Tatars, but about the crusaders who baptized Russia.
        1. family
          family tree 29 July 2013 00: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: Setrac
          But you probably heard the parable about how they cut out everyone who is above the cartwheel? so this is not about the Mongol-Tatars, but about the crusaders who baptized Russia.

          Even the crusaders, with all their abilities, could not have cut 9 lyamas out of 12, not to mention 90 laughing
          1. Sunscorpion
            Sunscorpion 29 July 2013 03: 15 New
            0
            To your happiness, you have a poor idea of ​​what a total war is, and especially a religious one.
            1. family
              family tree 29 July 2013 17: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: SunScorpion
              For your happiness, you have a poor idea of ​​what a total war, especially religious

              But more or less represent the baptism of Russia. Most of all, from large settlements, Novgorod resisted, and the expression "Dobrynya baptizes with fire, and Putyat with the sword" was born there. According to the results of excavations, this period accounts for a third of the burnt hillforts in Novgorod and its environs. Even if we assume that the baptists burned everything, while killing everyone, then 33, (3)% looms, and not as it is written in you and not 75%, as I suppose you wanted to write.
          2. Light source
            Light source 29 July 2013 13: 04 New
            -2
            Quote: perepilka
            Even the crusaders, with all their abilities, could not have cut 9 lyamas out of 12, not to mention 90 laughing

            Data on civilian casualties in World War II vary. Let me give you figures from the wiki: our losses due to the Nazis amounted to 2 million people. About 13,7% of the population lived in the occupied territories. From 40 million 170 it is 1939 million. 68 million from 13.7 million. This is 68%. Europeans of different stripes killed 20% of the population to which they were able to reach LOST WAR. I don’t know how to add a soldier from this land here, but I think it will definitely turn out more than 25%.

            Are you really funny?
            1. family
              family tree 29 July 2013 16: 58 New
              +2
              Quote: Light Source
              Are you really funny?

              But
              In fairness, it is worth noting that the second name of Vladimir "Red Sun" was interpreted by the church from Vladimir Bloody - the nickname that the survivors gave him to hide 9 000 0000 (90 million) corpsesinto which the so-called baptism "cost" (and this for less than 20 years, by the way they were then simply "hanged" on again, the so-called "Mongol-Tatar" invasion) and this despite the fact that the entire population of Kievan Rus the moment is estimated by historians at approximately 12 (000 million) human.
              So, even 9 million, this is three quarters, i.e. 75% Vladimir was a bloody stupid man? I didn’t understand what would remain in this situation? Was his entourage from the same chamber in the fool as he was? Did the people calmly let themselves be cut? Crusaders mean those who baptized. Well, what have the fascists to do with it? Or so, to blurt out, because the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer who scored even elementary logic and did not bother to delve into the topic. no
              1. Light source
                Light source 29 July 2013 19: 32 New
                -1
                Quote: perepilka
                Well, what have the fascists to do with it? Or so, blurt out

                You laughed at the fallen. And I gave an example from the present.
                Read carefully.
                1. family
                  family tree 29 July 2013 20: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Light Source
                  You laughed at the fallen. And I gave an example from the present.
                  Read carefully.

                  I laughed at the superpower of baptists to kill 7,5 times more of my people than existed at that time. Your example, from a completely different opera. The Nazis did not kill their own people, but as they considered subhuman, and their task was not to cross the inhabitants of the USSR into German National Socialists. Or for you, that Hitler, that Vladimir, are one and the same thing? Odd, I have such a conclusion. what
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 29 July 2013 21: 15 New
                    -2
                    Quote: perepilka
                    . Or for you, that Hitler, that Vladimir, are one and the same thing?

                    Do you think these are phenomena of a different order? The Russians were baptized in a foreign faith, imposed on other people's rulers, another's system, and only when they realized that the Russians could not be subjugated did they decide to destroy the Russians. These are links of one chain, from baptism to annihilation.
                    1. family
                      family tree 29 July 2013 22: 25 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Setrac
                      These are links of one chain, from baptism to annihilation.

                      Shchaz! They always tried to destroy the Russians. Regardless of faith. At baptism, no one in Constantinople even thought that the Russians would be subordinate to them, the maximum that they could influence the prince and secure their borders. Russia was baptized by Vladimir, it was his decision and the reason was purely political, to get another lever of power. He did not lose, the authority of the church could greatly influence the prince’s rating, for example, after the justification of the metropolitan in Moscow, after its strengthening, Olgerd, Prince of Lithuania, tore and metal, demanding from Constantinople, to put the metropolitan in Kiev, separately from Moscow. So the role of the church in the collection of Russian lands is huge. And it is unlikely in the west, with almost a thousand years of Christian experience, that they did not know that the baptism of Russia, over time, would only strengthen it.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 30 July 2013 00: 47 New
                        -1
                        Quote: perepilka
                        Russia was baptized by Vladimir, it was his decision and the reason was purely political

                        Was paying church tithe also a "purely political decision"? Imagine, we would now give 338 billion dollars annually (tithe) to the pope or the Patriarch of Constantinople! The Tatar-Mongol yoke rests and nervously smokes on the sidelines (maybe baptism was the beginning of the Mongol-Tatar yoke?).
                      2. family
                        family tree 30 July 2013 01: 06 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Was paying church tithe also a "purely political decision"? Imagine, we would now give 338 billion dollars annually (tithe) to the pope or the Patriarch of Constantinople! The Tatar-Mongol yoke rests and nervously smokes on the sidelines (maybe baptism was the beginning of the Mongol-Tatar yoke?).

                        Is it stupid to give 10% of the church’s income for strengthening power, influence and, consequently, increasing this income as a result of acquiring new possessions and managing the old with less?
                        We are giving more now, hell knows why, and even more not getting it.
                        Imagine we are giving away much more now.
                      3. Setrac
                        Setrac 30 July 2013 01: 36 New
                        -2
                        Quote: perepilka
                        Is it stupid to give 10% of the church’s income for strengthening power, influence and, consequently, increasing this income as a result of acquiring new possessions and managing the old with less?

                        Dear, we’re probably talking about different churches, the church did nothing of the above in the interests of the state and people, these are your fantasies.
                        Quote: perepilka
                        We are giving more now, hell knows why, and even more not getting it.
                        Imagine we are giving away much more now.

                        These are abstract phrases, specifically, to whom we give, where and how much we do not get? I specifically told you 10% of everything.
                      4. family
                        family tree 30 July 2013 12: 08 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Setrac
                        Dear, we’re probably talking about different churches, the church did nothing of the above in the interests of the state and people, these are your fantasies.

                        to plant the metropolitan in Kiev
                        Olgerd demanded purely out of altruism and the desire to give back what he had gained through back-breaking labor, right?
                        These are abstract phrases, specifically, to whom we give, where and how much we do not get? I specifically told you 10% of everything.
                        Well then, in Russia there was not a loan percentage, nor a piece of green, unsecured.
                        I specifically told you 10% of everything.
                        What is all? 10% of the income. Now 13%. Then it was taken only from the princely courtyard, now from everyone.
  • family
    family tree 29 July 2013 17: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: Setrac
    But you probably heard the parable about how they cut out everyone who is above the cartwheel? so this is not about the Mongol-Tatars, but about the crusaders who baptized Russia.

    I heard, quite a popular legend, which is attributed to almost all the conquerors at that time, only it concerned the faces of the masculine sex mainly, that is, the screenings were based on a military basis, and not on a reli gious basis. Yes, and this parable walked not only in Russia
  • The comment was deleted.
  • SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 29 July 2013 04: 48 New
    -1
    I fully agree. The author is big +. The best of what is written here (in my opinion, of course).
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 28 July 2013 21: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Nicotine 7
      One of the most tragic events of those years ... Is there a CONSCIENCE for those who celebrate this?

      Well, do not be so dramatic - monotheism is something that in ancient times was necessary for any ruler who wanted to gather several tribes into one state, otherwise hostility on the basis of ascertaining “whose God is more important” could not be avoided. Many nations went through this, and at that time Russia’s acceptance Christianity was a very right decision to strengthen statehood.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 28 July 2013 21: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Arkan
        monotheism is what in ancient times was necessary for any ruler who wanted to gather several tribes into one state, otherwise hostility on the basis of ascertaining “whose God is more important” cannot be avoided.

        I do not agree: the pagans certainly slaughtered each other (like everyone else in general), but not on religious grounds. And, again, the question remains - why exactly Christianity ?.

        And the answer, in my opinion, is very simple - the Prince was CHOSED before, and only in Judaism and Christianity (which is a continuation of Judaism, but with fewer restrictions) is the ruler anointed of God, that is, an absolutely legitimate and virtually unchangeable power.

        So "Orthodoxy" is not the basis of statehood, but the basis of autocracy.
        1. Anti
          Anti 28 July 2013 22: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: Yarosvet
          and only in Judaism and Christianity (which is a continuation of Judaism, but with fewer restrictions), is the ruler anointed of God, that is, absolutely legitimate and practically not replaced by power.


          What then should be done with the struggle of the Jews against the Christian monarchy? request
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 28 July 2013 23: 45 New
            0
            Quote: Anti
            What then should be done with the struggle of the Jews against the Christian monarchy?

            As well as with the struggle of Christian monarchies among themselves.
        2. Arkan
          Arkan 28 July 2013 22: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Yarosvet
          And, again, the question remains - why exactly Christianity ?.

          Firstly, Princess Olga wanted to "settle" this issue with the emperors of Byzantium (and even went to Constantinople with the embassy), then the Byzantine desire to subordinate the future church to herself was a "stumbling block", and only Vladimir could remove this issue from the agenda (yes also to intermarry with the emperors). Well, why Russia allied with Byzantium - it is obvious, at that time it was the most influential country in Europe.
          Quote: Yarosvet
          And the answer, in my opinion, is very simple - the PRINCE had been CHOSEN before

          No, he killed his brothers himself. The Novgorod merchants helped him with the money for which he hired the Vikings, but they can’t be suspected of having ties with the Jews. smile
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 28 July 2013 23: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Arkan
            Firstly, Princess Olga wanted to "settle" this issue with the emperors of Byzantium (and even went to Constantinople with the embassy), then the Byzantine desire to subordinate the future church to herself was a "stumbling block", and only Vladimir could remove this issue from the agenda (yes also to intermarry with the emperors). Well, why Russia allied with Byzantium - it is obvious, at that time it was the most influential country in Europe.
            What Olga wanted is not known for certain, but I doubt that in alliance with Byzantium they saw a real need from the point of view of geopolitics.

            No, he killed his brothers himself. The Novgorod merchants helped him with the money for which he hired the Vikings, but they can’t be suspected of having ties with the Jews. smile
            And what about his brothers?
            There is a goal - to make yourself irremovable. How to do it? Declare yourself the anointed.
            It is impossible to do this within the framework of existing cults, which means that it must be done within the framework of a new cult declared true.
            1. family
              family tree 29 July 2013 00: 44 New
              +5
              Quote: Yarosvet
              Declare yourself the anointed.
              It is impossible to do this within the framework of existing cults, which means that it must be done within the framework of a new cult declared true.

              At exactly
              1. Let everyone obey the authorities, because all power is from God, and all existing powers are set by God.
              2. Therefore, he who opposes power, resists what God has commanded, and anyone who opposes brings His judgment upon himself.
              3. The authorities are terrible not for good deeds, but for bad ones. If you want not to be afraid of the authorities, live honestly and they will praise you.
              4. They are servants of God and act for your good. And if you do evil, then fear: they do not carry a sword in vain, they are servants of God and execute God's sentence on those who do evil.
              5. That is why you must obey the authorities not only out of fear of God's punishment, but also in conscience.
              6. Therefore, you also pay taxes, because the authorities, in the exercise of their duties, serve God.
              7. So, give them what you owe them: to whom the tax, to whom to file, to whom respect, to whom honor.
              (Romans 13: 1-7)
            2. Arkan
              Arkan 29 July 2013 01: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Yarosvet
              What Olga wanted is not known for certain

              It is well known that her trip to Constantinople is described in some detail, and she constantly “pressed” Svyatoslav ...
              Quote: Yarosvet
              I doubt that in alliance with Byzantium they saw a real need from the point of view of geopolitics.

              In alliance with Byzantium, absolutely everyone in Europe saw the need, especially the Germans wanted to be closely related with the emperors, but in the end the princess became the wife of Vladimir ...
              Quote: Yarosvet
              And what about his brothers?

              A common practice (in those days) among many peoples - to come to power, brothers often killed each other, and Vladimir’s chances of “taking power" in Kiev were much less than those of his brothers - he was not legally born (son housekeepers). It is unlikely that any forces would rely on a bystryuk ...
              Quote: Yarosvet
              Declare yourself the anointed.

              Vladimir has never done anything like this! The first "anointed ones" in Russia appeared much later and not in Kiev.
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 29 July 2013 01: 24 New
                0
                Quote: Arkan
                It is known that her trip to Constantinople is described in sufficient detail.
                Baptisms for yourself, a woman for a son and the unification of lands for the rest? Are these souls beautiful impulses, or was the goal the same power?

                In alliance with Byzantium, absolutely everyone in Europe saw the need, especially the Germans wanted to be closely related with emperors
                And what do you think was the benefit of this relationship?

                A common practice (in those days) among many peoples - to come to power, brothers often killed each other, and Vladimir’s chances of “taking power" in Kiev were much less than those of his brothers - he was not legally born (son housekeepers). It is unlikely that any forces would rely on a bystryuk ...
                Well, what does his brothers have to do with it - with what side did they lean against baptism?

                Vladimir has never done anything like this! The first "anointed ones" in Russia appeared much later and not in Kiev.
                And he didn’t have to do anything like that: over your comment, comment on quotes from the bible - re-read them.
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 29 July 2013 01: 50 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Baptisms for yourself, a woman for a son and the unification of lands for the rest? Are these souls beautiful impulses, or was the goal the same power?

                  Olga’s power already had power, and those who doubted it burned down along with their ancient settlements even before she became a Christian. Her son (Svyatoslav) only nominally commanded the pacification of the Drevlyans - the fighting tradition of the Slavs required that the prince start the battle and not the woman Svyatoslav also started throwing a spear and wounding his own horse with him - he was four years old and this was his first battle ... Then the cry “The prince began! The squad after the prince” ... and Olga doubting the power ... in general, they said a lot (even the possibility of Olga’s marriage with the emperor was discussed), but mainly trade agreements and the possible baptism of Russia ...
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  Well, what does his brothers have to do with it - with what side did they lean against baptism?

                  Not at all. You said that Vladimir was "promoted to power," I explained to you why I doubt it.
                  1. Arkan
                    Arkan 29 July 2013 02: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    With your commentary, a comment with quotes from the Bible - re-read them.

                    I read, and more than once. The idea of ​​strengthening their power by the “will of the gods” appeared long before the advent of Christianity (the Pharaohs did so, without further ado, called themselves gods). Actually, all religions somehow strengthened and strengthen someone’s power (not kings priests, not priests so shamans ...) there were times, and Christianity was no exception. Vladimir certainly created the basis for a new form of government - but to reproach him is not correct (you can not judge the past by the standards of modern man - other concepts , other mores) ... Or did he have to build communism on the territory of a separate Kievan Rus? smile
                    1. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 29 July 2013 02: 37 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Arkan
                      Olga already had power ...
                      It had, and, along with the authorities, it had every chance of losing it - I think so - so talking about land unification (in which at that time there was no sense) was nothing more than a fairy tale.

                      You have not yet expressed your opinion about the benefits of this relationship and baptism.

                      Not at all. You said that Vladimir was "promoted to power"
                      I said that a completely natural desire arose to preserve and pass on the inheritance (at that time princes were elected and called for).

                      Quote: Arkan
                      The idea to strengthen their power with the "will of the gods" appeared long before the advent of Christianity (the Pharaohs did so, without further ado, called themselves gods)
                      True, but there is one small nuance - in Russia, as far as one can judge, there was nothing of the kind.

                      Vladimir certainly paved the way for a new form of government - but reproaching him is not right
                      So I don’t seem to reproach for the time being - the conversation turned to the reasons for Christianization, so I’m talking about them.

                      Or was he supposed to build communism on the territory of a separate Kievan Rus?
                      There is a version that in pre-Christian Russia there was, if not communism, then definitely something similar.
                      1. Arkan
                        Arkan 29 July 2013 03: 32 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        She had, and, along with the authorities, also had every chance of losing it

                        The chance to lose power, at that time, had the emperors Konstantin and Vasily whom Vladimir helped to suppress "The Rebellion of the Two Foks" but neither Olga nor Vladimir.
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        therefore, talking about land unification (in which at that time there was no sense) is nothing more than a fairy tale.

                        The unification (in which you do not see the need) took place even before Svyatoslav came to power. But, unfortunately, in a couple of centuries, Russia again fell apart into separate principalities ... But if strong central power remained in Russia, the battle on Kalka would end otherwise, and now there would be no debate about the Tatar-Mongolian. the invasion ... Obviously, the northern principalities of Russia took into account the bitter experience, and kings appeared, and there was nothing wrong with that at that time.
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        You have not yet expressed your opinion about the benefits of this relationship and baptism.

                        I have already talked about the benefits in this thread, view my posts (I do not want to repeat myself).
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        True, but there is one small nuance - in Russia, as far as one can judge, there was nothing of the kind.

                        The same can be said of any other people - any society develops in one way or another and there is nothing wrong with that - without this we would still live in caves.
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        There is a version that in pre-Christian Russia there was, if not communism, then definitely something similar.

                        Yes, it was (again - like any other people). Some people call this period the "Golden Age", others call it "Democracy of the armed people" but neither of them can clearly explain what it is and simply idealize it period, although I am sure that idealists would not have lived in that society for several hours (except as a slave ...) One thing is certain - sooner or later, large-scale tasks arise before society (the construction of canals, dams, and etc.) and this requires the distribution of resources, and therefore the one who distributes them ... Those tribes that could not get out of the "Golden Age" simply became extinct.
                      2. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 29 July 2013 04: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Arkan
                        but no matter how Olga, or Vladimir.
                        This is directly at that time. And on the horizon a question loomed - what are we, a woman with an illegitimate ruler.

                        But, unfortunately, after a couple of centuries, Russia again fell apart into separate principalities ...
                        In the unification of which at that time there was no sense.

                        and there was nothing wrong with that at that time.
                        But for me - it was.

                        The same can be said of any other people.
                        What side are any other people here?

                        without it we would still live in caves.
                        The conclusion is far from mixed.

                        but neither one nor the other can clearly explain what it is
                        Classless society.

                        and they simply idealize that period, although I am sure that the idealists would not have lived in that society for several hours (except as a slave ...)
                        Again, it is not clear what the conclusion is based on.

                        One thing is certain - sooner or later large-scale tasks arise before society (the construction of canals, dams, etc.) and this requires the distribution of resources, and therefore the one who distributes them ... Those tribes that could not get out of " Golden Age "just died out.
                        Perhaps, but all of the above in no way relates to the reasons for the baptism of Russia.
        3. Sunscorpion
          Sunscorpion 29 July 2013 03: 26 New
          0
          I’ll tell you more interesting. The emperor wanted to marry Princess Olga and thereby receive Russian lands in Byzantium. Only war was going on and the son needed money. And my mother loved her son ...
          And so she went to the emperor and said:
          - Baptize me "ampirator" and I will be yours, only give me more money at first.
          The emperor rejoiced, everyone quickly organized the rank according to the rank. And the princess began to gather home afterwards.
          - And how so? And the wedding?
          “And what kind of wedding can it be, emperor?” You are now my godfather! Dad cannot marry his daughter.
          Here the fairy tale ends, and whoever did not listen, let it go read the sources ...
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 29 July 2013 03: 53 New
            0
            Quote: SunScorpion
            Here the story ends, and whoever did not listen, let it go read the sources ..

            You need to be more careful with the sources - by that time going to Constantinople for the dough had become the national amusement of the Slavs (only Svyatoslav was worth what ...), it was just that the dame came for the dough that time ... This is really a fairy tale (with deep meaning) - - the rulers do not talk among themselves ...
            1. Sunscorpion
              Sunscorpion 29 July 2013 04: 55 New
              +1
              The tale is a lie, but a hint in it - a lesson for good fellows ...
              I did not say that this is a quote))), ... so, an easy ironic interpretation of the facts
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 29 July 2013 12: 07 New
                +1
                Quote: SunScorpion
                I did not say that this is a quote))), ... so, an easy ironic interpretation of the facts

                Hats off to you! hi You "interpreted" the facts exactly as the monk Nestor did once. smile
  • family
    family tree 28 July 2013 21: 49 New
    +3
    I read the article, nostalgic winked . I thought agitprop collapsed with the USSR, but no, I’m alive, a smoking-room, now it means it’s working at the Russian Orthodox Church, it gives “murzil’s” to the mountain. what
    1. tixon444
      tixon444 28 July 2013 22: 30 New
      +1
      Sorry, accidentally minus you, fixed in the profile fellow

      Quote: perepilka
      I thought agitprop collapsed with the USSR, but no, alive, smoking room, now, then it’s working for the Russian Orthodox Church


      So the ROC composed this agitprop masterpiece.
      But despite all the article I put +
      1. studentmati
        studentmati 28 July 2013 22: 39 New
        +1
        Made a correction ...
  • tixon444
    tixon444 28 July 2013 22: 12 New
    +4
    Our ancestors were baptized in Orthodoxy. How exactly, by force or of free will - we will never know. Most likely this way and that. 1025 years have passed. And the next generations did not depart from Orthodoxy, on the contrary, they tried in every way to strengthen it, seeing in it protection in the present and hope for the future. Even in the hardships of the last century, when unchristians destroyed Orthodox churches, the people did not forget the faith of their fathers and grandfathers, performing baptismal rites in the stables and bathhouses of the villages. Faith unites the nations; we do not have and will not have another. Orthodoxy is the support of the Russian Land.

    1. fartfraer
      fartfraer 28 July 2013 23: 27 New
      -1
      in the 17th, these Orthodox ruined churches and guarded the priests on Solovki, and nothing, the homeland was gone.
      1. Seraph
        Seraph 30 July 2013 00: 35 New
        +1
        Homeland did not disappear, but washed with the blood of tens of millions. Does it make you happy?
      2. radio operator
        radio operator 5 August 2013 09: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: fartfraer
        in 17 these Orthodox Christians destroyed churches and protected priests on Solovki, and nothing, the Homeland was gone

        17 didn’t send anyone anywhere. They just shot it.
        And they sent to Solovki in the 30-ies.
        Only people from this did not live better, alas.
        And the godless state did not last long.