Military Review

KBTM finally refuses to design tanks

40
Omsk "Design Bureau of Transport Engineering" will concentrate on repair tanks and refuse to design new models of armored vehicles, BK55 was reported at the enterprise.


The company, which in the past decade has been known, among other things, by such promising tank designs as the Black Eagle, changes its profile.

According to the regional government, on the basis of the production transferred from FSUE “Transmash”, the task is to create the All-Russian Service Center for Heavy Armored Machines, and on the basis of the design bureau itself, to organize a single All-Russian Center for the development, production, and modernization of equipment for engineering and radiation troops chemical and biological protection.

The company BX55 explained that the timing of the implementation of these plans have not yet been established, but it has become clear with the specialization: “KBTM will no longer engage in the creation of new tanks. Unless you suddenly receive an order from the Ministry of Defense ... "

However, the likelihood that the military will choose Omsk to develop a new combat vehicle is small. This topic is focused on the head enterprise of the Uralvagonzavod SIC - the plant of the same name in Nizhny Tagil.

Various enterprise transformation plans have been voiced for a long time. There is an idea to create a repair and modernization center for servicing the T-80 tanks in service with the Russian army. On the basis of KBTM OJSC, it was planned to form a joint venture for the production of special equipment for civilian use - universal machines combining the functions of earth-moving, agricultural and municipal machinery.
Originator:
http://bk55.ru/
40 comments
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  1. Armata
    Armata 17 June 2013 10: 45 New
    27
    Oh, someone's not talking. Omsk, like Transmash, were one of the main developers of the new Armata platform. Then they were connected to UVZ. Now Transmash will be reoriented to manufacture trams, and Omsk people to repair T72 tanks. Che is lying so frankly? And the institutes will work for the benefit of UVZ. Corporation b-i. It’s a pity that you can’t curse all of these, but the tongue turns.
    1. Manager
      Manager 17 June 2013 10: 52 New
      14
      Now I think with "Armata will drag on". Campaign I was right that I recently wrote that "Armata" was not shown, because there is nothing special to show.
      It seems that someone will set us on purpose.
      1. Armata
        Armata 17 June 2013 10: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: Manager
        Campaign I was right that I recently wrote that "Armata" was not shown, because there is nothing special to show.
        Hello my friend. Right, nothing.
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 17 June 2013 11: 08 New
      14
      as I said, they ruined such a KB - and for the sake of whom (we will not talk)

      here is my previous post on this topic - it is very relevant

      _____



      Rustam  December 21, 2012 08:27 | Omsk tanks at the military parade in honor of Cyprus Independence Day in October 2012

      OMSK T-80U TANKS - there were cool cars like the Omsk plant
      Cypriots in 1995 bought a batch of T-80U and BMP-3, then in the 2000s bought from the stocks of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

      many think that he was buried at the time by UVZ
      Omsk plant was not buried by UVZ, but to his joy. Our officials, deputies, Yeltsin and others like him buried it at the request of friends from across the ocean. For them, then the T-80 was a symbol of the stronghold of the USSR and Russia, it had to be removed. Everything that was done in the United States anti-tank, was imprisoned, first of all, against the T-80, everything else was not even taken into account. Naturally, UVZ was at hand and his guys supported this initiative. Although, when all this happened, the situation at UVZ was even worse than in Omsk.
      When Omsktransmash was finally dumped by the beginning of the 2000s, it only remained for him how to deal with the Kyrgyz Republic. At the same time, OKBTM is a strong design bureau now. They developed a number of interesting modernizations of the T-80BV (and even now there are about 4000 more), which is no worse than the current T-90SM, and in some ways better. But finally, the stool didn’t need a nifig, meaning from tanks and generally our weapons.

      So they got at the moment a monopolist represented by UVZ with a price of T-90A at 118 million rubles - in 2007 it cost 56 million
      to India in 2011 goes for 80 million, to Algeria for 88 million and all with kondeas, ours without (our tank crews do not sweat)
      no competitor, you can set the price tag as you want
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 17 June 2013 13: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Rustam
        no competitor, you can set the price tag as you want

        OKBTM and UVZ within the same structure.
        Quote: Rustam
        in the face of UVZ with a price of T-90A at 118 million rubles - in 2007 it cost 56 million to India in 2011 goes for 80 million, to Algeria for 88 million and all with kondeas, ours without (our tankers do not sweat)

        You know that "export" is shipped in cut-down configurations or they do not take into account the price of installed imported equipment.
        And on the topic of the article, very wonderful news.
        UVZ makes tanks, OKBTM is engaged in the modernization of the old park, which has been exhausted from how much was removed from the GBS. Everything with bread and at work. (well, as far as possible in our country)
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 17 June 2013 13: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: Rustam
        So we got at the moment a monopolist
        Let's take the aviation industry, aircraft engines, - similarly, "Fish Motors" send their Cossacks to Perm, you need to bend everything to suit yourself, to lose Perm engines. Combine design bureaus with serial factories. "Aviadvigatel" went to a protest rally, but what will happen in the end is a question. "Star" has already been merged with the serial plant. When, at one time, the Americans from "Prait Whitney" came to us, they made it clear that they did not need us in the sky, and that there was too much design bureau for Russia. Grandmothers rule everyone, or rather, those who are not averse to making money on the country's defense, thinking more about their own skin than about the security and interests of Russia. Of course, everything is done under good excuses.
  2. Abakanets
    Abakanets 17 June 2013 10: 51 New
    -4
    Instead of a good T-80, they chose a primitive T-72. Look what kind of candy Ukrainians made from the t-80.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. vjhbc
      vjhbc 17 June 2013 18: 50 New
      +2
      here’s one normal person and for that minus the navigators it’s the marketers of T 72 and then T 72 called T 90 and they think that they fooled everyone
      Quote: Abakanets
      Instead of a good T-80, they chose a primitive T-72. Look what kind of candy Ukrainians made from the t-80.
    3. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 17 June 2013 21: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Abakanets
      Instead of a good T-80, they chose a primitive T-72. Look what kind of candy Ukrainians made from the t-80.

      But the Ukrainians have nowhere to go (we have no gas and oil) - either to make a normal tank and earn money on it or die of hunger. As the saying goes - a gimmick on inventions is cunning!
  3. fisherman
    fisherman 17 June 2013 10: 55 New
    16
    A huge mistake on the part of the state. Relying on one enterprise for the development of technology will lead to a lack of competition, and as a result, a lack of incentive to new developments with a simultaneous increase in costs.
  4. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 17 June 2013 11: 09 New
    +2
    bad news ... the guys can see absolutely no money ...
  5. sys-1985
    sys-1985 17 June 2013 11: 19 New
    +3
    So it’s impossible, the competition should be!
  6. shamil
    shamil 17 June 2013 11: 22 New
    +3
    In the production of military equipment, there should also be competition, rivalry for the defense order, and this is a step back
  7. Vtel
    Vtel 17 June 2013 11: 23 New
    +1
    KBTM will no longer be engaged in the creation of new tanks. Unless suddenly an order comes from the Ministry of Defense ...

    It’s not pedagogical or strategic to turn such a giant into a service only, now all the tanks will float for repair in Omsk, which means that Russian Railways will either get more money or problems. And if tomorrow is war?
  8. Igor39
    Igor39 17 June 2013 11: 24 New
    +6
    Would make "Terminators" from the T-72 a couple of thousand pieces, they would be useful to themselves and would be sent to Syria to run on spirits, you have to answer the Yankees somehow.
    1. Armata
      Armata 17 June 2013 11: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Igor39
      Would make "Terminators" from the T-72 a couple of thousand pieces, they would be useful to themselves and would be sent to Syria to run on spirits, you have to answer the Yankees somehow.
      They want to make terminators out of 72 anyway, only when Armata goes into a series, but for now only repair and partial modernization.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 June 2013 18: 06 New
      0
      Explain why the terminator is so good and where exactly it can come in handy. I can’t understand this. A good name is yes.
      1. Armata
        Armata 17 June 2013 18: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Explain why the terminator is so good and where exactly it can come in handy. I can’t understand this. A good name is yes.
        Hi Zhenya. The name guano is complete. But the use of 2's 30 mm quick-shooters in an uninhabited tower is good support for tanks. So this eliminates the mantles of infantry when accompanied by tanks. The machine is useful, it is a pity that it has not yet been adopted.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 June 2013 20: 32 New
          +1
          I would not say. The Terminator does not have the main thing that the infantry has - the same review. 5 bodies in the car. Unprotected ATGMs. De facto, its functions can be performed by a conventional remote module installed on the MPAP, or by a Shilka-type machine. In any case, in my opinion a crude car. In fact, complements the tank where it is not really needed.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 18 June 2013 00: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: Pimply
            I would not say. The Terminator does not have the main thing that the infantry has - the same review. 5 bodies in the car.
            But in a heavy armored personnel carrier there are much more bodies, and this does not bother you. BMPT, this is the best heavy combat vehicle that replaces a couple of infantry platoons, and complements the tanks in the first line. Just five people of her crew provide work from under the armor, being able to better observe the battlefield. As for the "Shilka" or "Tunguska", they have no tank armor, and their tasks are different. In addition, it is in the BMPT that it is better to remake some of the outdated tanks, and not be perverted with heavy armored personnel carriers. BMPT can have different combat equipment, have a reduced crew, but, in any case, this vehicle will be stronger than any armored personnel carrier and BMP in armament, and more effective in battle, when replacing or covering its infantry.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 18 June 2013 00: 27 New
              -1
              What does it replace them with?

              A heavy armored personnel carrier is an infantry delivery vehicle. And five crew members are five crew members.
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 June 2013 23: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Igor39
      Would make "Terminators" from T-72 a couple of thousand pieces

      UVZ will remodel Kazakh tanks in BMPT. Perhaps the hands of Omsk now it will be done in the KZ?
  9. Grbear
    Grbear 17 June 2013 11: 24 New
    +3
    Some kind of muddy little article. And what has the regional government to do with it? What are the sources in BC55 who say "that everything is clear to them, but if ..., then ..."? Information at the OBG level (one woman said). Not solid!
  10. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 17 June 2013 11: 28 New
    +4
    It looks like Kuzhegetovich is not very strong in the ent question, so they pushed through the "necessary solution." It's a frank pity, Omsk has a lot of experience and potential. The article did not put anything, I was just upset.
    1. Armata
      Armata 17 June 2013 11: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: gladysheff2010
      It looks like Kuzhegetovich is not very strong in the ent question, so they pushed through the "necessary solution." It's a frank pity, Omsk has a lot of experience and potential. The article did not put anything, I was just upset.
      They are all not strong. They simply seated them by order of the GDP in the right places, but they have neither political nor ministerial weight.
  11. pakfa-t-50
    pakfa-t-50 17 June 2013 11: 28 New
    +2
    "Armata" When will it appear? If we slow down with this project, I'm afraid amers will again steal this idea, since a lot of our developments
  12. Larus
    Larus 17 June 2013 11: 35 New
    +2
    This is how you think whether our country will be able, in the event of a war, to expand the design and construction of the necessary equipment, if everything is restructured to the point that there is one workshop and so on in each area of ​​military production and professionals. I think that NO and that they will turn around again -YES.
    1. sashka
      sashka 17 June 2013 12: 07 New
      +2
      Quote: Larus
      I believe that NO, and that again they turn around to us, YES.

      If you watched the "news" and heard the chant of the audience .. The country is getting dull before our eyes. What answer did you want to receive? Promise twice as much. Here is our answer.
  13. sashka
    sashka 17 June 2013 11: 41 New
    0
    It's strange .. The whole world begins to think and worry. And we "voluntarily" refuse. But then it will be necessary to cut staff. What is this "State Policy"? Stupid and not clear ..
  14. valokordin
    valokordin 17 June 2013 11: 41 New
    +4
    Again they destroyed a combat unit, I think not everything can be blamed on Taburetkin, this is not the point, take it higher, otherwise Serdyuk, Serdyuk. He only shyly stole in the amount allowed to him, and he had nothing to do with strategy. I remembered an anecdote, on the stage the entertainer announced: "The Zionist Perduk is performing, oh, sorry, pianist Serdyuk.
    1. sashka
      sashka 17 June 2013 12: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: valokordin
      it’s not the point, take it higher, otherwise Serdyuk, Serdyuk

      What has Serdyuk got to do with it? He's not in charge. They are "led" from above. He's just a six. small coin. On which, if anything, you can blame everything .. Elementary ..
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Algor73
    Algor73 17 June 2013 12: 01 New
    0
    Even for Russia, two tank design bureaus is a lot, it's a luxury. But on the other hand, the Omsk Design Bureau was still more promising than UVZ. Ruined the perspective. It would have been even clearer if UVZ had tackled the T-80 after all. We must wait for the "Armata", maybe, indeed, this is a breakthrough in tank building and the whole current layout has outlived itself.
  17. Strashila
    Strashila 17 June 2013 12: 06 New
    +2
    It’s clear that they were simply crushed ... the collapse of the KB is not a permissible luxury for Russia. But someone does not think about Russia, but only the American dough.
  18. uestlend
    uestlend 17 June 2013 12: 08 New
    +1
    The team for theft comes from the top not the thirties steal.
  19. seller trucks
    seller trucks 17 June 2013 12: 12 New
    +1
    Gentlemen, according to the wiki:
    Russian Ground Forces - 9000 T-72, T-72А, T-72Б and T-72БА, of which 7500 is in storage, as of 2012 year,
    Russian Navy Coastal Troops - 160 T-55M, T-72 and T-80, as of 2012


    Russian Army - 4000 T-80БВ and Т-80У, of which 3000 is in storage, as of 2012 year


    Russian Ground Forces - 2000 T-64А and T-64Б (BV) in storage, as of 2012 year [14]. After the development of the resource, they are gradually withdrawn from service and disposed of.



    can anyone say what to do with this tank fleet?
    1. Armata
      Armata 17 June 2013 12: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: seller trucks
      can anyone say what to do with this tank fleet?
      Sell ​​Uruguay, Samoa and others instead of copies and boomerangs, but only on 1 a new unit, sell 1 a unit.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 17 June 2013 14: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Mechanic
        but only on 1 unit new, 1 unit sell.

        To the point, Eugene.
        good
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 June 2013 23: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: seller trucks
      can anyone say what to do with this tank fleet?

      in Kazakhstan the same problem. 1000 tanks in service, 5000 at storage bases.
      But we decided not to let the canned tanks rot, but to start their upgrade. Some will be converted to BMPT, some will be modernized (with Ukrainians and Turks for sure; and perhaps the Russians will accept part of the modernization order).

      As I understand it, Russia also decided to go according to our option and freed Omsk residents in order to stuff thousands of current "canned goods" with modern minced meat. This is how I took the news.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Sosed_26
    Sosed_26 17 June 2013 12: 26 New
    +2
    in Omsk, the budget debt of the region is 1/4 of the budget, and this money is borrowed from Sberbank at a very large percentage (I don’t remember the exact amounts, but the amounts are large) The oil refinery transfers taxes to St. Petersburg and all large plants and enterprises transfer all their taxes to St. Petersburg or Moscow When this environment from the work of these enterprises is polluted precisely in Omsk
    Now also close KB left
  22. takeshi
    takeshi 17 June 2013 12: 41 New
    0
    I hope S.K.Shoygu will not let this happen ....
  23. Nevsky
    Nevsky 17 June 2013 12: 45 New
    0
    Would you like to know a comment on this topic from Rogozin ?! what
    1. djon77
      djon77 17 June 2013 14: 18 New
      +1
      they don’t know
  24. IRBIS
    IRBIS 17 June 2013 12: 45 New
    0
    It has always been said that one head is good and two is better. Only now, in reality, everything is Chernomyrdin's way - as always ... Someone, apparently, “helped” the Omsk people to make such a decision a lot. Not understandable and, in my opinion, not very smart ...
    1. Armata
      Armata 17 June 2013 13: 03 New
      0
      Hello Alexander. Omsk after taking to UVZ do not make any decisions themselves. So these are not questions to them.
  25. JonnyT
    JonnyT 17 June 2013 13: 05 New
    0
    Well, nothing, a holiday will come on our street. And thieves and traitors will be bricks @ and their millions will not help them!
  26. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 17 June 2013 13: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: pakfa-t-50
    "Armata" When will it appear? If we slow down with this project, I'm afraid amers will again steal this idea, since a lot of our developments

    rather Chinese, they are not in the first. The Americans, most likely, have already learned what they need and they will not copy, but some ideas may be of interest to them, to a greater extent for the development of countermeasures.
  27. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 17 June 2013 13: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: seller trucks
    Gentlemen, according to the wiki:
    Russian Ground Forces - 9000 T-72, T-72А, T-72Б and T-72БА, of which 7500 is in storage, as of 2012 year,
    Russian Navy Coastal Troops - 160 T-55M, T-72 and T-80, as of 2012
    Russian Army - 4000 T-80БВ and Т-80У, of which 3000 is in storage, as of 2012 year
    Russian Ground Forces - 2000 T-64А and T-64Б (BV) in storage, as of 2012 year [14]. After the development of the resource, they are gradually withdrawn from service and disposed of.
    can anyone say what to do with this tank fleet?

    I think at the top the question "What to do" has long been decided. If in the 90s some comrades did not stand in front of the Americans with cancer, then everything would be much more expedient, more economical and of better quality - the T80s for modernization, and the T72s after being put in the proper form on the market, of course not all, but if possible ... We could have had a tank for a long time, with a reserve of world leadership for several decades ahead, alas, damn dollars for many turned out to be more important. As a result, now we have the most advanced tank - this is an old T72, albeit significantly modernized, in the face of the T90. Agree, how not to rename the T72, but even the T2099, it will not cease to be the 72nd in fact.
  28. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 17 June 2013 14: 22 New
    +3
    And why not make the T-80 modernization center in Omsk?

    Armata is wonderful, unification is just fine.
    But at the moment this is not yet. And in one year the armies cannot be saturated. When will they create their fleet in 4000 production cars? And then you need to argue whether you need to upgrade the 4000 T-80, and not now. Their modernization will be faster and cheaper than the creation of new tanks.

    For some reason, they could contain the T-55, T-62 fleet at the same time, plus the T-64, T-72, T-80 family and no one was indignant that we were grabbing the headset.
    And now all of a sudden it became straightforward for everyone to feel ashamed that our little hands were tired of thinking which nut was from which model of the tank, well, the caring ones all the same began to take horror. What is it for ?
    Finding out what it is to the seizure of markets and monopoly, and not for the sake of unification. Again, "business", not tanks ...

    Unification is good, but only when it IS. And again, we are destroying something valuable, NOT HAVING a new one, but only bright plans, and not finished serial products.
    If you do not make a T-80 service center in Omsk, then soon it will be possible to put an end to the entire unique fleet of these machines, the overhaul life is not unlimited.

    Omsk can really be made the center of modernization of the T-80. The service and repair system in the troops has long been created, large capital investments are not required, the CENTER FOR MODERNIZATIONS is needed. These machines will now serve well in parts (especially in cold climates) and in the future as a mobile reserve, if you keep them with a regimental (namely regimental) kit.

    Supporter of Almaty. I’m a fan of T-72, but I consider the CRIME a mediocre destruction of the unique T-80 and the structure of their service (the same Omsk).
  29. cartridge
    cartridge 17 June 2013 14: 33 New
    +1
    Very sorry. The T-80 is an excellent tank and the Omsk experience in its creation and improvement could still be very useful to our army when creating military vehicles.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. GP
    GP 17 June 2013 14: 41 New
    0
    T-64-72-80 are tanks of the same class. Amers are armed with abrashas alone and do not blow a mustache and do not let out new ones at all.

    http://www.kbtm-omsk.ru/node/330 И как с такими зарплатами найти нормальных рабочих? Энтузиазм он не вечен. И подключение к УВЗ, еще лучше к мощностям производства не военной продукции, разумнее. Пусть и конкурируют КБ, а производят что-то одно.
  32. Sinbad
    Sinbad 17 June 2013 14: 53 New
    +3
    The absence of competition - rivalry in any area of ​​military design leads to the inhibition of design thought, and even the bureaucratic one starts backing away altogether. Only constant rivalry makes you think and move forward. And a completely disastrous situation may turn out to be when the Americans, or other probable opponents, suddenly, without reporting to us, release something fundamentally new, and we have nothing, calmed down by the aging "abrams".
  33. viktoxz
    viktoxz 17 June 2013 16: 47 New
    -2
    people you have not heard that the entire database of Internet users has been leaked to the network with open access! There is all the information from personal photos and videos to personal correspondence and copies of documents. There you can of course delete your data if you do not want everyone to see them. Here is the link- http://addr.pk/a619a
  34. Cynic
    Cynic 17 June 2013 18: 42 New
    0
    Well there was this revelation in our local press and Sho ?
    Under what give money, that’s done!
    And there is no need to combine TransMash and KBTM, these are different structures, though in one bundle _ UVZ> KBTM & ZTM. Those who are not aware of KBTM acquired the rights to TransMash at one time.
    The main thing here
    Unless suddenly an order comes from the Ministry of Defense ...

    In theory, several KB / plants are allocated MO money and they make TANKs. Then the machines are compared and make the DECISION, which will go into the series ... In general, generally accepted practice.
    In general, we are waiting for the premiere of Almaty and look at the base of 195 or 640!

  35. Alexander D.
    Alexander D. 17 June 2013 20: 45 New
    +1
    Well, here is the result of cooperation with UVZ. And some wiseacres, on the basis of the advisability of cooperation between KKBM and UVZ, cited the KBTM and the Kirov plant as an example. I never thought that the fewer strategic design bureaus, the better for the state.
  36. Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 17 June 2013 21: 01 New
    +1
    Now the T-100 will push through 90% instead of upgrading the T-72 and T-80, it will be possible to forget about the new platform, it is not profitable for them. In one go, they ate the fish and rode a helicopter. The story with "Black Eagle" is repeating itself, apparently Rogozin is a bad organizer and does not know how to dictate conditions at all.
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 17 June 2013 21: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: Svyatoslav72
      Now the T-100 will push through 90% instead of upgrading the T-72 and T-80, it will be possible to forget about the new platform, it is not profitable for them. In one go, they ate the fish and rode a helicopter. The story with "Black Eagle" is repeating itself, apparently Rogozin is a bad organizer and does not know how to dictate conditions at all.

      He holds this position because he is a good performer. Nothing superfluous without the permission of the owner will not blurt out. In 2009, the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs at a meeting with the president, seeing the futility of discussing any pressing issues with him, got up, turned around and left the office. In Russia there are NO such "with ya..cy" !!!
  37. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 17 June 2013 23: 30 New
    +1
    Yes! ... well, the second fun of the Slavs is from one extreme to another ...
    - there were three KB in the Russian Federation, we won’t pull expensively ...
    - made one design bureau (removed the competition) even refused to show the layout ...