Military Review

Defenders of the motherland can not be drawn on a piece of paper. On the "professional army" as an illusion

113

In recent years, the strengthening of defense capability has become one of the main state tasks. And one of the few that is decided not only at the level of declarations. There is a restoration of the defense industry. The armed forces are gradually saturated with new technology and undergo a difficult structural transformation. In times increased material support and allowances for military personnel.


What is all this done for? For order? To not be ashamed in front of the neighbors?

It is gradually becoming obvious that all this is being done for a reason, that in the foreseeable future, strong and efficient armed forces may need us for their intended purpose.

The first time it became clear in 2008. Then, under the guise of forceful resolution of the issue of territorial claims of Georgia, an attempt was made to undermine Russia's position in the entire Caucasus. Then it became completely clear that they would stop us from recovering from the collapse of the USSR and returning to our historical the path of an independent and strong power. And they will interfere by any means, including military. Then it became apparent that only military force can ensure our recovery and stable development in our own interests. Otherwise, they simply will not give it. However, this is true for any state that does not want to be in the role of a colony of a new formation.

The 2008 events of the year were the impetus for serious measures aimed at rebuilding our armed forces. The state faced a chain of problems that could not be solved separately. The need to replace dilapidated weapons and equipment with new models required to address the problems of the defense industry. The chronic lack of personnel and the inability to contain a huge number of part-time formations (actually only partially capable) required structural changes and numerical reduction. The need for high-quality combat training raised the question of the motivation of commanders and the improvement of the living standards of the military.

But another problem that stood in the way of creating the armed forces of a new look and a new quality should be considered separately - these are the principles of recruitment. This problem is also important because it has not been solved yet. And around the options for its solutions do not subside heated debate. This problem concerns almost half of the citizens of our country, since every man somehow has to determine his place in the defense of the Motherland.

First, it should be said that there are two systems for recruitment of junior ranks - compulsory (draft) and voluntary (contract). Recruitment of officers, by definition, is voluntary, since it is impossible to force anyone to choose this profession (of course, if this is not a caste or caste society). Picking can be mixed - partly draft, partly contract. But it can not be "professional" - this term is erroneous. Professional skills and level of training are not directly dependent on the form of the set. A conscript soldier can become an excellent specialist and a true professional, having received a military specialty in compulsory recruitment. A volunteer contractor may be worthless soldier, even receiving a high salary. That is why, say, the American army cannot be called “professional” just because it lacks a forced recruitment. And the army of Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov can hardly be called "unprofessional" only on the grounds that it consisted of recruits, and not of volunteers. The professionalism of a soldier depends on personal qualities and level of training.

When we faced the long overdue task of a qualitative change in the armed forces, the question of recruitment was already very acute. Evasion of conscription has become a mass phenomenon. The level of motivation of those who still went to serve left much to be desired, which affected the overall level of combat training. High-quality combat training was maintained where its level was traditionally high. Those who dreamed of defending the Motherland, and not those who could not "hang out", sought to get there. And it was necessary to raise the combat readiness of all armed forces to the level of elite units.

But how to achieve this? You can do the training and equipping of personnel. But first you need to have this personnel. But where to get it, if apart from crowds of draft dodgers and those who are not really fit for health service, there is also a demographic problem? After all, the Russian army was faced with the need for transformation, being in a demographic hole. By the way, the bottom of this pit has not yet been reached, and we will see the minimum number of potential recruits only in two years.

The answer lay on the surface. If soon there will be no one to call for a short time - let those who can and want to defend their homeland, serve longer. Then the professional level of the personnel will be higher (experience, and therefore professional level will depend on the length of service). And the motivation will be able to raise (after all, it is different for the one who decided to serve himself, and for the one who was caught by the police). And besides, it's just a requirement of time. Indeed, in the modern army the proportion of sophisticated modern technology is large, which requires a long development. Gone are the days of massive armies, when the main force consisted of soldiers trained to stab bayonets and keep the line. Nowadays, the capabilities of armies are far from being measured by the number of bayonets, but by the perfection of military equipment and the level of training of personnel. Even the rank and file of the land forces has long been not limited to the position of the shooter - in each section there is a machine gunner, a grenade launcher, and a sniper. However, the conditions of modern combat require even a simple shooter a variety of professional skills. And preferably also experience.

Fully contract army - this is the way out for an aging society! Yes?

Not so simple.

If you just take and start paying for the service - this is not a guarantee of the professionalism of the armed forces. It is necessary that there be a choice, so that it is possible to select for a professional army those who are really able to defend their homeland, and not just receive a salary. It is necessary that it was from whom to choose. And by the beginning of the transformation the choice was not great. That is why a rather logical move was chosen for the transition period. First you need to do so that the service did not run across the country, and were not afraid to defend their homeland more than the attacks of the enemy. Let them serve for a year and will be relieved of unnecessary burdens and deprivations of service, let them feel a taste for the real male profession, let them receive primary, but high-quality training. And then many will want to serve further. But already voluntarily, having primary training and realizing that they will receive a good salary for good work. Then it will be possible to choose the best of them and improve the quality of the army not by number, but by skill. This is the case now, and the chosen approach is really bearing fruit. The level of combat training and the prestige of the service, which is no longer considered forced labor, increased.

However, there is still a shortage of personnel among the conscripts and contract soldiers. At the same time, canceling the call and switching to fully voluntary recruitment will not work, because then the contract will have to take people from the street and prepare them as recruits, but for the money. And in this case, the lack of personnel will again devastate the staffs of the units.

Thus, we said goodbye to the dreams of a fully contract army, in which experienced professionals, probably from other planets, will defend carefree and peaceful citizens of Russia. Our armed forces have become a system with mixed manning. And, in my opinion, such a system is optimal for us. It is able to give servicemen with a long service life and long training to where the conscripts do not fit, and is able to give a constant influx of those who can continue to serve, already having basic training.

But the mixed system in its current form, I recall, was originally considered a transitional one. Such it remains. It will still have to be modified. It cannot satisfy those who, even if you burst, do not want to waste time and energy in order to protect the Motherland, and dream of “specially trained people” doing it for him. And we must proceed from reality - we have many such people, although not all of them should be considered in advance as bad citizens of their country. And besides, it is not capable of solving the problem of a mobilization reserve, which is declining for demographic and medical reasons, but, nevertheless, remains insufficient for the scale of our country. And in order to understand how one can get out of the current situation, one will have to proceed from reality, and not “hotelok.”

And we must begin by explaining the reasons for the failure of the idea of ​​a fully contract army for us. We will not have such an army, not because “it happened so,” but because it is impossible. A modest army of highly paid professionals is good. For a small country with limited sovereignty (independence). For a large and independent country, which has extensive plans to develop in their own interests, we need a large army of highly paid professionals. But we need an army that corresponds to the size of our country, the level of potential security threats and the extensive interests that must also be protected. But the matter is not only in the level of the funds that we can spend on the salaries of professional defenders of the Motherland. The fact is that at least the three most large-scale wars of the last two centuries have become Domestic for us. That is, those from whom not a single inhabitant of our Motherland could “kill”. And the Cold War had already been fought against us for several decades. And there is a suspicion that it has not ended yet.

Why is that? Why do we need it?

For the fact that we are, and still want to exist, to be ourselves. From the events taking place in the world, we are not separated by the oceans. All the most important processes affecting the fate of the planet, one way or another, occur around Russia. We are in the heart of these processes, and not on the periphery of the history of mankind. Global war is our scale, the scale of our country. We will not dodge a single global conflict and do not hide behind the backs of a group of “professional Homeland Defenders”. If it blazes seriously, everyone will have to work hard. This is not a curse, this is our fate. It is impossible to escape from fate, and the only way to get rid of it is to stop being in this world.

Therefore, I propose to think not about where to find someone who will protect us in our place. And how we can all participate in the defense of the motherland. The likelihood that everything will have comes from our history. And who does not like our story - is free to immediately admit that he is "not ours."

To begin with, you will have to admit that shifting responsibility only to the boys entering the draft age is not an option. Yes, we need a massive pre-draft preparation. Yes, we need educational work with young people. Yes, we need to explain what kind of world we live in, and what place in this world are those who do not want to protect themselves. But this is not enough. It is not enough persuasion alone. It is necessary to critically evaluate the ideals of equality of rights in the so-called "free societies", and understand that without equality of duties there is no equality of rights.

Now the idea of ​​professional isolation of the country's army from the citizens of the country has reached logical absurdity. As soon as the interests of the country demanded that a small contingent be sent to Syria, the first thing the Ministry of Defense does is reassure the people that only contract servicemen will go. Not a single conscript! No, no, how could you think! The stupidest question arises: what, the oath without monetary reinforcement is invalid? Or if the interests of the country (our common interests) require risk from those who chose this risk as their profession, then this is a reason for those whom no one tears away from the easy chair to start yelling about the spilled Russian blood and not our war? Come to your senses, fellow citizens! This is how you should not love your country to deny her the right to protect their interests? The interests of our common well-being and security!

But, on the other hand, we must not forget about reality. If among the young citizens of the country there is not enough willing even for a one-year care for the defense of the Motherland, then does this mean that all of them do not want to protect it in principle? And among those who are not very young, are there many who will agree to spend time refreshing in the memory of their military specialty (MAS)? And among the millions of people who have “cast a spell” in the past, will everyone refuse to receive an “amnesty” if you can get the MAS at not very long gatherings not far from home? I suspect that even among those who have long and successfully evaded, as well as among those who are only planning to evade the burdensome defense of the Motherland, there are few who refuse to shoot at the range.

All this does not mean that getting a military specialty should be turned into a pleasure attraction. This means that there is an opportunity to make mass military basic training by searching for its more flexible forms. On this depends not only the country's defense, but also the integrity of the society, the understanding of the citizens of the country of their involvement in the cause of her defense, awareness of their responsibility for her fate. Defenders of the motherland can not be drawn on a piece of paper. And children cannot be taught to love her if they consider caring for her not to be their own business.
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113 comments
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  1. treskoed
    treskoed 16 June 2013 07: 28
    +9
    A stupid question arises: what, an oath without monetary support is not valid?

    The question is really stupid: the oath is taken to protect the MOTHERLAND, and not to participate in FOREIGN operations in peacetime! There should be ONLY PROFESSIONALS-VOLUNTEERS and for a good reward!
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 16 June 2013 08: 08
      +1
      I was also interested in this moment. I agree with the author to this point. And such a moment-it is necessary to protect the interests of the country, but what does the author mean by this? If we are talking about Russia's participation in hostilities in Syria, then this will not happen.
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 16 June 2013 15: 57
        -3
        Quote: Gleb
        I was also interested in this moment. I agree with the author to this point. And such a moment-it is necessary to protect the interests of the country, but what does the author mean by this? If we are talking about Russia's participation in hostilities in Syria, then this will not happen.


        Auto is very tricky. He is very competent at sorting out problems, but he draws the wrong conclusions, I would even say that he replaces the correct answers with obviously anti-state ones (the word is unsuccessful but another doesn’t come to mind), he seems to be worried about the country, and meanwhile he is crap on this country. A man walked along the trends and said - and the garbage is all that you do and the figs you will succeed.

        The last three paragraphs can replace the entire article. And it says in them that an oath without contentment is nothing. Bullshit is complete. The oath is an oath to protect the homeland, and the contentment is so as not to bend from hunger. Do not mix soft with warm here. Professionals must be sent to a foreign war — they are paid, they study, bring experience and will be taught conscripts. Everything, the oath has nothing to do with it. And inappropriately here for the military profession to present.
        1. Explore
          Explore 16 June 2013 23: 18
          +1
          For 1 year a normal soldier can’t be raised! If you look at the draft recruitment system, then 2 years is the minimum for which you can at least educate a soldier.
          However, I will say something in favor of the contract system: Contractors are financially responsible persons, and therefore they are more responsible for the maintenance of military equipment and weapons in proper condition. They, since they went to the service voluntarily, are more motivated. No, of course there are conscripts with high motivation and distinction in the service, but the majority always give a damn about everything. They were "forced" by their native military registration and enlistment office to return their debt to their homeland ...
          And this is not only my opinion (having gone through military service exclusively voluntarily and with excitement), but also all the serving acquaintances ...
          The way out - the Airborne Forces, Special Forces, Marines and separate combat units of the SV, may be better contracted. All the rest - with soldiers of military service. Actually, as they are trying to create ...
    2. the polar
      the polar 16 June 2013 18: 48
      +3
      Quote: treskoed
      A stupid question arises: what, an oath without monetary support is not valid?

      The question is really stupid: the oath is taken to protect the MOTHERLAND, and not to participate in FOREIGN operations in peacetime! There should be ONLY PROFESSIONALS-VOLUNTEERS and for a good reward!

      Sometimes it is necessary to defend the homeland far beyond its borders. There is nothing to be done, such is the dialectic of interstate relations today.

      Another thing is that today the Government in Russia will not be able to unequivocally answer ... by sending the Russian military contingent abroad, for example, even to Syria, whose interests the Russian soldier will protect there; Russia's security interests, or the interests of a handful of oligarchs and transnational corporations? I think that in the second case, there are hardly any parents who would agree that their son lay his head down for the profits of the transnational oligarchy, no matter how it camouflages.
      So this question is very serious and very resonant for today's Russia.
    3. waisson
      waisson 16 June 2013 19: 52
      +2
      did you take the oath?

      ON THE TEXT OF THE MILITARY Oath OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

      PRESIDENT OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION
      DECREE
      January 5, 1992
      ON THE TEXT OF THE MILITARY Oath OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
      Approve the following text of the Russian Military Oath
      Federation:
      "I, (surname, name, patronymic), enter military service and
      I swear allegiance to the Russian Federation and its people.
      I swear to comply with the Constitution and laws of the Russian Federation,
      comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and
      bosses, legally assigned to me duties.
      I swear, being in military service, to be honest,
      conscientious, worthy to bear the difficulties associated with it.
      Courageously, not sparing your life, protect the people and
      state interests of the Russian Federation.
      I swear not to use weapons against my people and legally
      elected by them authorities.
      I undertake to do military service anywhere on
      the territory of the Russian Federation and comply with the laws of
      the state in whose territory the military will be held
      service.
      If I violate my military oath, I’m ready
      bear responsibility established by the laws of the Russian
      Federation ".
      President
      Russian Federation B. YELTSIN
      Moscow Kremlin.
      5th of January 1992
      maybe you confused the text of the oath of another state for example.
      I swear that the Federal Republic of Germany is faithful to serve and defend the rights and freedom of the German people brave, may God help me.
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 16 June 2013 22: 02
        0
        Military Oath (Commitment)
        1. Content of Military Oath (Obligations)

        The military oath was approved by the Federal Law of March 28, 1998 on Military Duty and Military Service.

        Text of the Military Oath:

        I, (surname, name, patronymic), solemnly swear allegiance to my Fatherland - the Russian Federation.
        I swear sacredly to observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, to strictly comply with the requirements of military charters, orders of commanders and commanders.
        I swear to fulfill the military duty with dignity, courageously defend the freedom, independence and constitutional system of Russia, the people and the Fatherland.

        The obligation was approved by the Federal Law of March 28, 1998 “On Military Duty and Military Service” (as amended by the Federal Law of October 11, 2003 No. 141-FZ).

        Commitment Text:

        I, (surname, name, patronymic), give an obligation to comply with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, to strictly comply with the requirements of military regulations, orders of commanders and commanders, to fulfill military duty with dignity.


        As the saying goes - feel the difference, mister "colonel" waisson.
    4. Setrac
      Setrac 16 June 2013 22: 21
      +1
      Quote: treskoed
      The question is really stupid: the oath is taken to protect the MOTHERLAND, and not to participate in FOREIGN operations in peacetime! There should be ONLY PROFESSIONALS-VOLUNTEERS and for a good reward!

      There should be conscripts — volunteers and contractors — whom they send, nowhere to go to the contractors, they get a deny.
  2. Warrawar
    Warrawar 16 June 2013 07: 31
    13
    Tired of the "ritual" dances and speculation around the concept of a "professional" army.
    Of course, you cannot become a defender of the Motherland and a warrior on a piece of paper. Still, a professional army is needed. We need a fairly large contingent of paid specialists - in the history of Russia there were initially "professional" military men.
    It is necessary to withdraw from the peasant field army. But the call itself must be abandoned, only to take not everyone in a row, but those who want and who can. So that the young guys would serve for a year, master the initial military profession in a normal situation and only then make a decision for themselves - to go further to the "defenders" of the Motherland or to the reserve, to civilian life.
    1. OTTO
      OTTO 16 June 2013 08: 55
      +7
      Quote: Warrawar
      So that the young guys would serve for a year, learn in a normal situation, the initial military profession and only then make a decision for themselves - to go further to the "defenders" of the Motherland or to the reserve, to civilian life.

      Quite right !!! With this approach, we will have a professional army and a fairly large reserve. But you need to call regardless of "wanting". And the alternative service should be reassigned to the army, otherwise now the "alternatives" are working for the benefit of the municipalities. And the alternative service should be increased to 3 years (a soldier serves 24 hours a day and an alternative serviceman only 8).
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 16 June 2013 09: 40
      +6
      I absolutely agree with you. This will be the closest reserve from those who have already "sniffed the gunpowder," albeit in peacetime. And for the rest - universal primary education (including field studies) to the fullest extent, and not for profanation.
    3. Hleb
      Hleb 16 June 2013 09: 46
      +4
      only to take not everyone in a row, but those who want
      so today we have a problem with a complete set, because many just excuse themselves. And this despite the fact that they are calling and those who did not manage to slope. And if those who want it themselves will be called, it will be even sadder
      but in general I agree, there should be a call and a contract. but today the contract soldiers have not yet made up for the under-recruitment
      1. OTTO
        OTTO 16 June 2013 10: 28
        +6
        It is necessary to adopt such laws, and such propaganda, so that a man who does not serve in the army is a second-class citizen.
        1. SASCHAmIXEEW
          SASCHAmIXEEW 16 June 2013 10: 54
          +4
          With all that it implies .... without the right to take a position in the state apparatus of any level, do not want to serve with a machine gun, do not get into hell with managers ...
          1. OTTO
            OTTO 16 June 2013 11: 37
            +2
            Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
            if you don’t want to serve with a machine gun, don’t get the hell out of managers ...

            That's right. The manager serves the state (at least so declared) so let him begin this service with military service.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 16 June 2013 15: 50
          -3
          Suppose I did not serve for objective medical reasons, I did not buy any military tickets. What's next? But how running around with a gun allows you to prepare a good manager is another question.
          1. CTEPX
            CTEPX 16 June 2013 19: 32
            +3
            Quote: Avenger711
            did not serve for objective medical reasons

            Quote: Avenger711
            how running around with a gun

            You see! For you, the service is "running around with a machine gun", i.e. You do not advise others either)). With such objections, if "our partners" do not pay you, then, apparently, only due to your failure to reach some bureaucratic heights)).
            As for the "objective medical indicators", then they are objective, in order to take them into account as "aggravating" when entering the civil service.
          2. Airman
            Airman 16 June 2013 20: 35
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            Suppose I did not serve for objective medical reasons, I did not buy any military tickets. What's next? But how running around with a gun allows you to prepare a good manager is another question.


            Then you have nothing to do on this site.
          3. Misantrop
            Misantrop 16 June 2013 21: 17
            +4
            Quote: Avenger711
            how running around with a gun allows you to prepare a good manager is another question.

            And what, in your opinion, means "a good manager"? what
            In fact, in the classical sense, this is a person:
            - able to work in a team at the subconscious level,
            - one who knows (at the level of reflex) how to command subordinates and obey his superior,
            - able and able to hold the load for a long time without reducing the efficiency of work.

            You cannot keep the load (for medical reasons), obey without disputes and demagoguery - also, they do not teach this in civilian life. And HOW and WHAT to command your subordinates to rush to perform (and not send to a popular address) is a sealed secret for you. After all, you are a PERSONALITY, subordinates are exactly the same, the "authority of the position" holds until the very first serious introduction. But the "authority of the personality" you still need to DESERVE first (and there are NO skills). So the prospect of a successful manager has just vanishingly small chances of implementation, alas. You have a chance to become a talented loner-nugget, but NO serious part of the team
            1. poquello
              poquello 17 June 2013 02: 27
              +1
              "After all, you are a PERSONALITY, the subordinates are exactly the same, the" authority of the position "lasts until the very first serious introduction. But the" authority of the personality "you still need to DESERVE (and there are NO skills). So the prospect of a successful manager is simply vanishingly small chances of implementation, alas. "

              Please read management books, in addition to the charter, preferably bourgeois, no matter how offensive it is.
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 17 June 2013 12: 17
                0
                Quote: poquello
                Please read management books, in addition to the charter, preferably bourgeois, no matter how offensive it is.

                And Serdyukov with his crowd slut - as an example of a successful manager?

                By the way, reading books increases horizons, but is not able to give practical skills. By correspondence it’s good to play chess, but not to box laughing
                1. poquello
                  poquello 17 June 2013 19: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Quote: poquello
                  Please read management books, in addition to the charter, preferably bourgeois, no matter how offensive it is.

                  And Serdyukov with his crowd slut - as an example of a successful manager?

                  By the way, reading books increases horizons, but is not able to give practical skills. By correspondence it’s good to play chess, but not to box laughing


                  Serdyukov here and here, let the prosecutor's office deal with his successes.

                  Practical skills by name are management practices, and in order to understand how to manage and what qualities the subject of management has, motivation, the ability to make good decisions - you need to learn, incl. I recommended that you write about books as your self-education, so that they don’t blurt out about the introduction as the apogee of management.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 18 June 2013 00: 04
                    0
                    Quote: poquello
                    Serdyukov here and
                    Do you think that has nothing to do with it? And, meanwhile, he is a classic manager-manager, focused on maximizing returns. Will you deny that he managed to process the funds simply colossal and almost all of them went through his hands? But he didn’t understand a damn about what he undertook to lead, and he didn’t set such tasks for him. As a result, he (and those who set it) received the MAXIMUM return from the object of leadership. That's just this object was almost completely destroyed... The ministry is now cheaper to recreate than to compensate for the consequences of its "leadership". And if in the process of this "management" it had not been covered from above with all the might of the state machine, it would have been torn to shreds. Yes, and they will tear it apart if this cover is weakened a little. Not a single private trader, even partially interested in the prosperity of his company, would not let such a "leader" near the command chair and a cannon shot.
                    Quote: poquello
                    I recommended books about you as your self-education
                    What a touching concern laughing Do you really think that you understand this better than me?
          4. Setrac
            Setrac 16 June 2013 22: 29
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            Suppose I did not serve for objective medical reasons, I did not buy any military tickets. What's next? But how running around with a gun allows you to prepare a good manager is another question.

            To learn how to "run with a machine gun" you do not have to go to the army, in the army they teach a lot more besides "running with a machine gun". And if you haven't learned to obey, for example, how can you command? You will not be an intelligent manager.
    4. 77bor1973
      77bor1973 16 June 2013 11: 03
      +6
      The fact of the matter is that you have to take everyone in a row, regardless of any privileges received at universities, take academic leave.
      1. matross
        matross 16 June 2013 22: 59
        +1
        Quote: 77bor1973
        Those who enter universities take academic leave.

        This, by the way, will allow unloading universities from ballast, spending time there only for the sake of delay. And the number of commercial pseudo-universities will decrease immediately. And in all serious It would be good for state technical universities to restore military departments with training in related civilian universities.
    5. Avenger711
      Avenger711 16 June 2013 15: 48
      0
      There were always professional military men, an officer, by definition, a professional military man. However, the development of weapons allowed arming a large number of draftees.
    6. Airman
      Airman 16 June 2013 20: 31
      +5
      Quote: Warrawar
      .
      It is necessary to move away from the peasant field army. But the call itself must be left, only to take not all in a row, but those who want and who can.


      We must take all who can serve, including the sons of the oligarchs, officials, judges, deputies and the rest of the Sheluponi. A military duty should be UNIVERSAL, regardless of the faces and positions of parents, and only then the army will become PEOPLE.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 16 June 2013 21: 38
        +3
        Quote: Povshnik
        We must take everyone who can serve, including the sons of the oligarchs, officials, judges, deputies and the rest of the shelloon.


        This will at least force this whole pack to take seriously the needs and demands of the army. And in the event of a son's "slope" from the service, raise the question of the parent's compliance with the position held. Everything is extremely logical: if the son does not want to protect it, then dad is not working for this ...
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 16 June 2013 21: 44
          0
          Misantrop

          Your thoughts, yes Pu ... in the ears!
          1. GP
            GP 16 June 2013 23: 58
            +1
            For those who like to cut:
            By analogy with Pu ... - Putin:
            Not ... Nemtsov;
            Ku ... Kudrin;
            On ... Bulk;
            But ... Novodvorskaya;
            Sue ... Zyuganov;
            Well ... Zhirinovsky
            etc.
            The secret is simple, use to replenish the vocabulary.
            And if in pairs, some comrades may fall into ecstasy.
        2. folds
          folds 17 June 2013 01: 13
          0
          And in the case of a son's "slope" from the service, raise the question of the parent's compliance with the position.
          create "Potemkin villages" for their sons, non-comrade Bondarchuk also served - in the cavalry regiment, created on the initiative of his father for the filming of the film "War and Peace", and then he removes such soulful films about Afghan - With the epigraph "dedicated to my father" And there is for which to thank my father ..
      2. matross
        matross 16 June 2013 23: 09
        0
        Quote: Povshnik
        sons of oligarchs, officials, judges, deputies and the rest of the husk.

        5 points! good Shelupon has yet to publicly report where her sons serve! And if they don’t serve, but in harvards with oxfords they turn sour - to the nail and to free bread, and to oligophrenics, pah! oligarchs fine 50% fortune defense !! am
  3. mogus
    mogus 16 June 2013 07: 39
    +9
    Evasion of draft has become a mass phenomenon. The level of motivation of those who nevertheless went to serve left much to be desired, which affected the general level of combat training.

    I venture to grab the cons, but
    The goal in protecting one’s country is formed from childhood, from the state’s attitude to the person - and what did the state have to people in the 90s? When the state threw people at cars and considerable money - it is in the memory of my generation ...
    And how does it feel now? Money is money, just if you feel justice from the state, then you "pay" the same ...
  4. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 16 June 2013 07: 42
    +8
    This topic has already been discussed many times. Everyone understands a professional better than an amateur (temporary worker). So what is it about then? And the fact that the contractors are not in a hurry. I am not special, but my opinion is that military service should be based on everyday improvement of soldiers' skills in the specialty specified in the contract. If the service again comes down to cleaning up the territory, and other work not related to military specialties, then there is nothing surprising that there is no line of contractors, and conscripts are not in a hurry. My belief is that it all depends on the Ministry of Defense, a training system for conscripts and contract soldiers should be developed, a program not just from common phrases, but with a full layout for each day, from the first to the last day of service. That the soldier would not hang around idle, would not lift his feet on the parade ground before lunch, and after lunch on the same parade ground with a broom. Everyone knows that in our country, thousands of times are now destroying ammunition, while many soldiers are engaged in practical shooting for several days a year. So, I believe that inspections of the entire personnel of all combat training units should be carried out annually, and if some units cannot cope with the tasks, the unit commander should be dismissed, not transferred to another position, namely dismissed. Only in this way can a combat-ready army capable of defending the country be prepared.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 16 June 2013 08: 45
      13
      Here is one of the examples in Chechnya in the second. take a grouping in Khankala (a certain regiment, unit) and some unit in Shaly or Vedeno, Urus-Martan ... in the first place you cannot drag in to serve, but in the last place (although the percentage will die in the last more). and all because in remote units they are doing what they should. and in Khankala regular checks began, ten times lining up with bags on the parade ground, inspection of the uniform, scouts were forbidden to go out in camouflage coats to the formation, to the canteen for combatants under the drum and in the same Shalyakh it was not important whether the collar was hemmed or not, if the soldier was in constant exits. he would be better off risking his life, but he does not need "jerking off." It was also forty degrees of heat in Tajikistan, ten constructions on the day when people fell on the parade ground. this is the main reason. why they go to serve in one and do not want to another. the staff turnover was up to one hundred percent per year. they were dismissed on a break. subsequently they were not released on vacation, because only a few returned ...
      (by the way, you come to the commissar with the package, he writes out a new soldier. deleting, without entering the record on the contract, when he quit the break. and on a new contract with a clear conscience. this was very common)
      and I also noticed such a moment. when the soldiers are without real army work, graters often start, conflicts are small. but if the unit goes to exits, and even more so if the military unit rallies it, the soldiers come to the location and start discussing this, who helped someone. rallying. even thoughts do not arise clinging to a fellow for nothing.
      1. tupolev-95
        tupolev-95 16 June 2013 11: 05
        10
        Very familiar. Many commanders, under the concept of "combat readiness", mean the presence of tags on duffel bags and OZK, 15 formations per day and so on. As a result, instead of doing business, the whole part sews tags, shifts the contents of the duffel bags a hundred times (with these sidors still fought in the 1st World War) and tablets (why the heck for me, an aviation armament specialist, a tablet with colored pencils, markers, liners, a curvimeter and other stationery bought, by the way, for my money, if my duty is the serviceability of my materiel, suspension, equipment etc., etc., and instead of conducting classes and trainings with personnel, I check tablets and duffel bags, according to constantly changing inventories). Military reviews in "full harness", when in the shade +40, you cannot call it anything other than mockery. Imagine the moral atmosphere in such a unit and which of the conscripts would want to stay on the contract? It is all this "jerk off" that repels people from the army, precisely against This "Prussian drill" was Suvorov, and this is what many modern commanders are doing under the pretext of "increasing combat readiness".
    2. 77bob1973
      77bob1973 16 June 2013 12: 20
      0
      The commander was dismissed and another commander was discharged from behind the "hillock" with a large salary.
    3. Avenger711
      Avenger711 16 June 2013 15: 54
      0
      And where did you get the idea that the contractor is not a temporary worker?
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 16 June 2013 16: 21
        +1
        and you carefully read my comment?
    4. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 June 2013 18: 58
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      My belief is that everything depends on the MO

      In my opinion, the wrong belief. Only the implementation of the tasks set by the state depends on the Ministry of Defense. And the state sets it up either as a furniture maker or as a firefighter. laughing
    5. Alekseev
      Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 18
      0
      Quote: vladsolo56
      the conviction that everything depends on the Ministry of Defense, a training system for soldiers of conscripts and contract soldiers should be developed, the program not just from common phrases, but with a full layout

      For you, of course, it's pardonable not to know, but such a program was developed at the "beginning of time". Called - combat training program.
      Everything is divided into hours and topics, as in any curriculum.
      Not fully implemented, not high quality?
      Yes, often.
      Why? No order, and not always the unit commander can drastically change the situation for the better.
      Why is there no order in the army (and the country too).
      I think you know.
      Nobody especially and doesn't want to direct..., Unfortunately
  5. cartridge
    cartridge 16 June 2013 08: 40
    +4
    ... we said goodbye to the dreams of a fully contracted army, in which seasoned professionals, who had probably flown from other planets, would protect the carefree and peaceful inhabitants of Russia


    This is the dream of those who have not served and always shy away from service as hell from incense.
    Instead of empty creacle dreams of a mercenary army, Putin and his ilk should finally think about how to eliminate the reasons that scare away a significant part of urban youth from conscription. Something is being done, such as the actual refusal to draft foreigners from the North Caucasus into the army. It's not bad. But, in my opinion, it is necessary to reorganize, first of all, the work of the military prosecutor's office and military courts. So far, these highly paid loafers (receiving 2 times more military and, unlike the military, unlimited pensions) are working on the consequences of offenses and crimes already committed, and not on preventing them. It is necessary to tighten criminal liability for hazing. Put scumbags in a zone, but not in a disbat. To oblige them through the court to pay colossal sums of money in compensation to their victims. Restore guardhouses. To expand the rights of commanders who today can only reprimand. To introduce a violation of the rights of offenders and give real material and social advantages to those who have mastered their military profession professionally and served their year without flying in.
    In general, the options and suggestions may be different, but we need to seriously think about this not so much as Shoigu, but as the State Duma, which in my opinion often resolves completely different issues that need to be addressed.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 16 June 2013 22: 38
      +1
      Quote: cartridge
      the place of empty creacle dreams of a mercenary army Putin and his ilk must finally think about how to eliminate those reasons that scare away a considerable part of urban youth from conscription.

      These reasons are known - laziness, cowardice, selfishness, weak character, lack of patriotism ... etc., etc.
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 19 June 2013 23: 20
      0
      Quote: cartridge
      Putin and others like him should finally think

      About emigration? laughing
      He is a demagogue, this is your Putin. He only speaks for 13 years. And he conscientiously spends not all his money on all sorts of nano-projects. They change clothes for the second time! laughing And new Su-35s arrived exactly on 1 (!!!) regiment, for example. Well, in general, you understand laughing
  6. uzer 13
    uzer 13 16 June 2013 08: 46
    +1
    The problem of manning the army for some reason is not often discussed, although this is the real problem. It seems that no one knows what to do, either in the Ministry of Defense or in the government. No one has ever seriously dealt with this issue. Military, due to the specifics their labor activity, it is difficult to comprehend that very serious changes are needed in the army, including in the seemingly unshakable structure of the vertical hierarchy. The system of troop organization itself has not changed for the good 2000 years and is nothing more than a copy of a similar structure of the Roman Empire .Changes are needed because new weapons systems and new ways of counteracting external threats have appeared. To work on new modern equipment that enters the troops, the contingent of urgent service is hardly suitable. Here, contract soldiers with engineering training are already required. At the moment they have no motivation for military service and they’re not going to serve. Only infantry can be staffed under the contract, again from among those who have served military service. Well, what did they learn in a year, then this will be an indicator of the quality of training and combat readiness of the troops. If there is no order in the army and there are irregular relations - such an army is unable to fight. The unit commanders somehow avoided fulfilling their direct duties. In such cases it is necessary to apply very tough and decisive measures. Regarding the recruitment of special forces, it can be said that former conscript soldiers are completely unsuitable for this, due to insufficient physical training . But possible candidates for such sub-issues divisions do not dream of military service, but of high fees and do not even plan further residence in Russia. The government of the Russian Federation is so far from solving pressing problems that it seems that it simply does not suspect the existence of the problem of staffing the army. they receive from watched films and TV shows. Representatives of the Moscow Region and the General Staff diligently ignore this problem, because questions may arise about their compliance with their posts. The author quite correctly and promptly outlined one of the problems in the army that required a very serious attitude.
    1. uzer 13
      uzer 13 16 June 2013 10: 23
      -3
      http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2013/063/rkyh756.jpg
      1. uzer 13
        uzer 13 16 June 2013 12: 18
        0
        I myself do not support the communists. The fact is that there is no national idea on the basis of which we can build some kind of intelligible policy of reforming the armed forces. And if such a generation, as in the picture, they did not bring up anything, they should count on it. explain for a very long time why they should fight.
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 16 June 2013 19: 24
      +1
      I agree with the Patron and uzerom.
      He himself wrote more than once.
      But ... Nobody takes measures ...
      Although all the recipes, both for the organization of normal conscription service and for restoring order in the troops, have long been known. And even how many are not secret! yes
      Okay, we made a mistake with perdyukov (to be honest, I don’t understand how it can be wrong in my right mind)
      But other leaders do not show any zeal in strengthening order in the Armed Forces of Russia (And In Russia, in general, too)
      There are no laws and charters of sensible and efficient.
      The commanders have no rights.
      I / O status is lowered.
      Only salaries were added. But after all, not being able to fulfill their duties, or not having the authority, the ability to fulfill them, no salary will help. Do not feed the horse. laughing
      The Armed Forces began to be regarded not as an honorary service, but earnings in the "north"!
      I can't believe it, of course, but the impression that the Russian army is being "finished off" on purpose ..
    3. CTEPX
      CTEPX 16 June 2013 19: 52
      0
      Quote: uzer 13
      The government of the Russian Federation is so far from solving pressing problems that it seems that it simply does not suspect the existence of the problem of staffing the army with personnel

      Those who are responsible for conscription in the Ministry of Defense are sure that the conscript should not ALREADY be trained, but "should be healthy and not, and we will teach the rest in the army."
      In fact, EVERY candidate for the draft must have from six months to four years of voluntary pre-draft training. And it should be - club)). With curation from a mass organization in the image and likeness of OSOAVIAHIM)). DOSAAF is not suitable for such a role by the very principle of its structure)).
  7. avt
    avt 16 June 2013 09: 07
    +3
    “Now the idea of ​​professional isolation of the country's army from the citizens of the country has reached a logical absurdity. As soon as the country's interests demanded sending a small contingent to Syria, the first thing the Ministry of Defense does is to reassure the people that only contract soldiers will go. Not a single conscript! "----------- request The author clearly confused something, in general, such a topic surfaced in relation to "hot spots" and how they ruled in our territory. If he meant peacekeepers in the Golan Heights, then there are no questions either, really a battalion of volunteers - contract soldiers will not be typed ?! request
    1. poquello
      poquello 17 June 2013 02: 43
      +1
      ". If he meant peacekeepers in the Golan Heights, then there are no questions either, really there won't be a battalion of volunteers - contract soldiers ?!"

      That's right, I don’t understand either, they were in the UN lines, has anything changed?
  8. 128mgb
    128mgb 16 June 2013 10: 45
    +5
    Girls need to be taught patriotism. What would the guy’s statement be, and I won’t go to serve, I asked, what’s sick or something. Well, of course, I knew that such a position as a guy, groom, etc. is not good.
  9. Indigo
    Indigo 16 June 2013 11: 25
    15
    If it blazes seriously, everyone will have to work hard. This is not a curse, this is our fate. It is impossible to escape from fate, and the only way to get rid of it is to stop being in this world. - here my questions went:
    1. Work for everyone? - for whom is this? those who stole and robbed the people, hid the money behind the hill and in fact is the 5th column in the country.
    2. Children of these thieves study and are brought up over the hill in hatred of their country - they are preparing the elite and warm places to control suckers.
    3. What feats we would not do, but they (the elite) will surrender us at the highest level (an example is humpbacked)
    4. Their children will be in the same row with us (burn in tanks, rise to the attack with the words - For the Motherland "-? (Not like the children of members of the Politburo in WWII)
    5. At the moment, the concept of OUR COUNTRY, OUR COMMON ACCOMMODATION has been shattered — everything has been reduced to a property concept — who has stolen for how much — and there are no big hunters to protect someone else's.
    6. They built rotten capitalism where money became the measure and not conscience. and the society from top to bottom became rotten (that is majors, that is homeless). We rely only on the remnants of the Soviet generation and those whom they raised in the spirit of collectivism ..
    7. Attempts by the GDP to create a national idea based on capitalism (money and bargaining) - as for me it is doomed to failure with bad consequences ...
    8. What to do? We’ll ask Kvachkov, those who built the industry, sent the first person into space, who put PID for years ... owls to the camps, who had the courage and honor to call the World Cup ... ray - ... ryam ...
    1. uzer 13
      uzer 13 16 June 2013 12: 13
      +1
      I completely agree with you and adhere to the same point of view. Those who robbed their people want the poor to protect them.
  10. dizelniy
    dizelniy 16 June 2013 11: 26
    +3
    Service in the Armed Forces (defense of the Motherland) has never been the equivalent of "good money" in our history. This is more of a moral category. It is difficult to imagine 400, 200, 70 years ago of our ancestors in the Moscow area in the trenches calculating the probable profit. The pay should be decent; for young people, service should become a guarantee of education, both during service and mainly after it. Professionalism in the army is not determined by the way it is recruited. The result of military service for all should be more materialized in benefits, and not in money. For example: compulsory employment of family members, guaranteed education for children, in the case of contract service. The country's leadership has absolved itself of responsibility for the fate of the service class by paying them money for which nothing can be bought in the sense of ensuring their future. The conversation about Syria did not arise by chance, will we wait for these thugs to start running around our cities? The war is already going on and we do not feel it, it is going on in our minds, it can be seen from the comments. The country needs an understandable concept of development that does not exist, and for this reason, our consciousness is filled with chimerical ideas about what we should and what should not, thrown in from abroad. It is from this that the defenders of the Motherland are compared with the SS publicly and throughout the country, and the author of this "revelation" was not given a radiator in the same place, I am not even talking about criminal prosecution as for denying the extermination of Jews. The article appeared clearly not by chance, I really do not want to hear on TV in the conditions of today's discord: "Dear Brothers and Sisters ......"
    1. True
      True 16 June 2013 11: 38
      -2
      Just the opposite. Military officers, both in Soviet times and in Tsarist times, were offended by money and were not privileged. It is enough to remember history. Therefore, military affairs have always been considered PRIVILEGED. Another thing is the unfortunate soldier slave who was torn away from his family and sent to defend the notorious "Motherland" (which was usually expressed in daily hard labor, drill, and sending to defend foreign kings for the "interests of the state").
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 16 June 2013 21: 54
        0
        Quote: True
        Military officers in both the Soviet era and the tsarist were not offended by money and privileges. Just remember the story
        That's it, remember, not tell tales. And to find out that a good non-commissioned officer under the tsar received less than a skilled worker, and an officer of the USSR Navy received three times less civilian in the same position... It's elementary just to compare the salaries of the commissioning factory crew and the receiving one - the military. Or is it “privilege” to receive 500 rubles instead of one and a half to two thousand?
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 16 June 2013 21: 59
          0
          Misantrop

          I don’t know about non-commissioned officers and officers of the USSR Navy, but as a lieutenant in a captain’s position in the Far East (without length of service) I received 315 rubles. in 1990
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 16 June 2013 22: 10
            0
            In 1986, the entire amount on hand (including a partial polar and sea) for the starlea as a group commander (captain-lieutenant) was a little more than 500 rubles. The watch operators of the PU GEM and BP of the delivery crew (factory) received from 1500 to more than 2000 rubles. This is despite the fact that they only kept watch, had neither personnel nor management, they were not concerned with anxiety, duty-duty service and coastal outfits.

            And in the 90s, when fellow peacekeepers (foreign) found out the level of salaries of their colleagues, officers of the 345 OPDP, they had a real SHOCK, they could not believe for a long time. Refined for a long time, asking again
      2. Alekseev
        Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 09
        +2
        Officers never received much.
        For your information, the poor nobleman could not enter the royal guard. He had to have the means for a "decent" life, not shameful for an officer of the guard. The salary was only enough "for bouquets for the empress," as Prince wrote. V. Trubetskoy in his "Cuirassier Notes".
        In the army, a lieutenant at the beginning of the 20th century - 48 rubles. per month, as an intelligent workman.
        But is not the point.
        The elite of the Russian empire was not ashamed to serve, the tsars themselves were military people.
        And now we have a different fashion.
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 16 June 2013 22: 12
          0
          Alekseev-u

          And no one says that 315 rubles. in the Far East, with his wife and infant in a rented apartment - this is a lot. And parents - oh how far.
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 34
            0
            I completely agree with you, for he himself had the honor of serving on the Chinese border in the Amur Region.
            my comment. to the opinion of True a little higher.
            1. aviamed90
              aviamed90 16 June 2013 23: 15
              0
              Here is what I found. Very interesting book.

              "Reference book for Russian officers" (compiled by the highest order of the General Staff by General-Major Makhotin, St. Petersburg 1875)

              Monetary allowance for an officer with the rank of "ensign":

              Basic salary (per month), type "B" (for all other regiments):
              - 300 rub. (main)
              - 294 rub. (net of 2,5% for hospitals and doctors)
              - 276 rub. (6% more to the emit cashier)

              OR

              Reinforced salary (per month) (type "B" (for all other regiments)) (Transcaucasia, Black Sea, Amur, Primorsk, Sukhum Tersk regions, Dagestan, Kuban, Turkestan, Chinese border; students of academies; accompanying members of the royal family abroad) :
              - 450 rub. (main)
              - 441 rub. (net of 2,5% for hospitals and doctors)
              - 414 rub. (6% more to the emit cashier)

              + Additional content:
              - for those who do not receive table money - 12-216 rub. per year (depending on the area)
              - additionally paid in the remote regions of Eastern Siberia - 60-120 rub. per year (depending on the area)
              - on special provisions

              + Table money (Transcaucasia, the Black Sea, Amur, Primorsky, Sukhum Terek regions, Dagestan, Kuban, Turkestan, the Chinese border) - 144-240 rubles per year.

              Partion (per diem for meals in dresses, guards) - 60 kopecks. per day - 3 rubles. per day (depending on the area.)

              + A separate monetary allowance is put on the horse.

              We make simple calculations:

              TOTAL minimum - 288 rubles per month
              TOTAL maximum - 480 rubles. per month

              That would also know the price level!
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 16 June 2013 23: 29
                0
                There are recounts on the Internet. Through gold, through a consumer basket and something else there. As far as I remember, 550 current ones correspond to one royal ruble of 1913. The then average monthly salary of workers was 21 rubles per month.
                1. aviamed90
                  aviamed90 16 June 2013 23: 47
                  +1
                  However, a mistake crept into the calculations.

                  Salaries are given in rubles. in year!

                  We recount:

                  TOTAL minimum - 35 rubles. per month
                  TOTAL maximum - 67,5 rubles. per month

                  This is more like the truth!

                  For current money:

                  from 19250 to 37125 rub. per month.
  11. optimist
    optimist 16 June 2013 11: 26
    +8
    Some kind of controversial article. Minus. At first, the author narrates for a long time that "twice two is four". (On the topic of recruitment, it has already been written and rewritten nemeryannom.) Then he tries to understand why the people "mow" from the army. And the reason is elementary, ideological! When the slogan “Loot at any cost!” Prevails in the country, there can be no other attitude to the service. I myself am an officer, I am already finishing my service. And I see that now the main incentive is MONEY! Everyone thinks only of them, "darlings" ... As for the conscripts, they can also be understood: with general progmatism, this is nothing more than a lost year. Only guys from God-forsaken places go with pleasure, - for them this is the only chance to "break out into the people". And let's be honest: "if something happens" will have to defend not so much the Motherland as "factories, newspapers, parakhods" of Abramovichs, Deripasoks, etc. Here is the MAIN REASON! And if in the days of the USSR he did not serve (for various reasons) was considered an inferior man, now the opposite is true.
  12. True
    True 16 June 2013 11: 27
    -2
    Warrior is a profession. Like an engineer or another. She must be dealt with by the one who chose her and no other way. This is his choice and he should receive a lot of money for it. He must master the modern sophisticated technique. An conscript who thinks only of quickly fumbling for a year and dumping him in civilian life. He does not care about the equipment that he got, the main thing is that it does not break during his service life. It is nonsense that conscripts who were driven into the barracks love their homeland so much. Just the opposite. Why love the homeland, which for several years would have deprived you of freedom, and even driven you into bestial conditions in the same barracks with the Dagestanis?
    Who told you that the professional receiving the money is not a patriot? Consequently, pilots or submarine officers are not patriots?
    PEACE TIME ARMY is small, professional, well-equipped. These are the armies of the United States (1.5 million of the 320 million population is a little), Japan, Germany, Great Britain, France.
    1. Andrei
      Andrei 16 June 2013 18: 15
      0
      True, I want to note that until recently the German army you mentioned was staffed with both "conscripts" and contract soldiers, and only recently the conscription stopped - and the reasons are almost the same as ours - there is no one to serve (there are a lot of "alternatives"), yes, and their army is now greatly reduced and its property is being sold, Japan with its territory does not need a large army in principle, except that the fleet, and then if you serve for a year (as we have now), there is nothing to do, in the USA, many go to a contract for the sake of citizenship and for the sake of education (grants for training, various benefits, which, in principle, is not bad) and do not forget they also have a rather large National Guard - an organized reserve of the US Armed Forces - we are only creating such a reserve (if the media does not lie) , and mob. the reserve, if it exists, is only on paper and is not organized in any way. So I will join the opinion of some others - the army should be partly from conscripts, partly from contract soldiers. And in order for young people to love the army, an appropriate state is needed. program. including the program of pre-conscription training, which is now practically destroyed, mainly driving schools remained, and the various military-industrial complex became several times less than in the USSR. It is necessary to return the CWP to schools, create such a system in which a student, or who has already graduated, for example, an engineering and construction or architectural and construction technical school / institute / college was sent to the service (if the student / graduate so desires) was sent to engineering units and divisions, and the service count into work experience in their specialty and they should be given priority when hiring, and while they say that the wolves are fed and the sheep are safe - the troops will receive at least partially trained specialists, and young people will gain work experience, or vice versa, the young man wants to become a builder - expresses his desire in the military registration and enlistment office, if he is suitable, he goes to serve in the engineering troops, and then enters the corresponding university on preferential terms, provided that during the service there were no significant complaints about him. Only for all this to work is necessary for this system to be fixed at the legislative level and to be binding on the ground - then the army will be the ARMY!
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 46
      0
      Quote: True
      It is nonsense that conscripts who were driven into the barracks love their homeland so much.

      That's not news.
      Now many have taken the position of "pigs under an oak" from the fable of grandfather Krylov.
      You have not heard the old army saying: "We will teach you to love your Motherland"! wassat
      A conscript during his service should not at all become a master in mastering "modern sophisticated technology."
      He should become from a "vyunosh" at least a little bit of a man and acquire primary skills and abilities according to his VUS.
      This is if for a year. And then either stock or contract.
  13. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 16 June 2013 11: 33
    +5
    The fact is that at least the three most large-scale wars of the last two centuries have become Patriotic for us. That is, those from which not a single resident of our Motherland could “mow”.


    The author does not understand the nature and character of World War II.

    The war of 1812 was called Patriotic in 1814 with the establishment of the medal, a tribute to the participation of the people.

    World War I absolutely does not belong to this type of war. Until February 1917, the government fully controlled the mobilization resources, calling on those designated by the corresponding ranks of warriors and militias. The militia is not of the "get up people" type, but the type of finding conscripts in the reserve.

    Two wars are interesting.
    Imdinskaya Patriotic War. Imdin - year 1592. Reflection of the aggression of samurai in Korea. The governors of the regions ("yangbans") took the path of betrayal. The land army was gone. The samurai perpetrated unprecedented terror against the population.
    The people rose to World War II due to the inability of the authorities to organize the protection of the country's population from external aggression.

    On June 22, 1941, V. Molotov, reporting on the German attack, clearly stated that the Red Army was fighting, and its victories were ensured by the strong rear of the country's citizens working for the Victory.
    July 3, 1941 comrade Stalin declared war on the Patriotic War, calling on the people to resistance, including military.
    In May 1945, at a festive reception for senior command personnel, Comrade. Stalin said that "We," that is, the top leadership of the country and the army, are indebted to the Russian people for their patience, noting that for such a war the people have the right to sweep away such a government.
    The Supreme understood what he said.

    The Patriotic War is determined by the inability of the authorities to fulfill their obligations to defend the country and the need to call for ordinary citizens to military operations, or there is a forced fact of the participation of citizens in military operations on their own initiative. The fact of such participation by international law is provided, with certain reservations, which in the 2nd World War, in part, by the Soviet side were not observed.
    In political terms, the fact of such a war involves a change in the government of the country.
  14. Recon
    Recon 16 June 2013 11: 35
    +3
    Manning can be mixed - partly draft, partly contractual. But it cannot be “professional” - this term is erroneous. Professional qualities and level of training are not directly dependent on the form of recruitment. A conscript soldier can become an excellent specialist and a true professional, having received a military specialty in forced recruitment. A volunteer contractor may turn out to be a worthless soldier, even receiving a high salary. That is why, say, the American army, can not be called "professional" just because it lacks compulsory recruitment. And the army of Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov can hardly be called "unprofessional" only on the grounds that it consisted of recruits, and not of volunteers. The professionalism of a soldier depends on his personal qualities and level of training.


    I subscribe to these words. I serve long enough, and I gave a decent piece to the army. It often happened that conscripts with motivation and personal qualities served BETTER than double bass.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 16 June 2013 16: 29
      +1
      what do you mean by the word served? Tell me why the arrows shooters spend a lot of time in the dash, and why? the main thing is motivation. It would be a desire for you and the soldier would shoot perfectly right away. engage in hand-to-hand combat with any enemy, of course, if the army does not need soldiers, but manpower, then your reasoning is quite suitable. Read my comment, if you conduct an exam every year, everyone who for one reason or another is not able to comply with the standards is easy to dismiss. Everything needs sound logic. not empty phrases and slogans
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 56
        0
        You, of course, are right, but not in full wink
        You see army service as something like a sport.
        Training, enhanced nutrition, doping. drinks
        For the military service, and even more so the war - this is probably the hardest work.
        And the term "living force" fits. It is strength. And alive. Without it, nowhere, "suction" will not help out.
        And the review is an exam and is now provided.
        Called - final check.
        But here they do not fire them sometimes. request
        There are already few people left, after perdukov. "Everything has been stolen before us!" laughing
        And what about the combat, who also dismiss those who have not fulfilled the standards?
        Then we can never "recruit staff." wink
  15. Egoza
    Egoza 16 June 2013 11: 45
    0
    Dot-dot-comma
    Funny face came out
    Handles, cucumber
    A little man appeared

    What will these points see?
    What will these pens build?
    How far will these legs lead him?
    How will he live in the world -
    We are not responsible for this.
    We drew it all!

    What are you, what are you, this is important
    To grow up brave
    So I can find the way
    Calculate run
    It's hard, it's hard
    But otherwise it’s impossible
    Only so out of man
    Man will come out

    However, even children know
    How to live in this world
    There is nothing easier than this question
    You just have to be truthful, noble, fair
    Smart, honest, strong,
    Good, that's all!

    How everything just works out
    In words and on paper,
    How easy it is on a smooth map
    Draw an arrow.
    And then you have to go
    Through the mountains and ravines
    So before, little man,
    Learn to walk.

    Point-to-point-comma ...
    Point-to-point-comma ...
    Point-to-point-comma ...
    Point-to-point-comma ...
    poetry writer - Julius Kim
  16. Flying Dutchman
    Flying Dutchman 16 June 2013 12: 03
    11 th
    The draft army is an archaism inherited from the time of the Middle Ages. Society must demand a completely contract army from the oligarchic authorities. Conscripts in these times are not operational.
    1. My address
      My address 16 June 2013 12: 48
      +4
      With fuya-whether spree? My peers (from private) and I in the defense of the Motherland will tear.
    2. Egevich
      Egevich 16 June 2013 16: 04
      +2
      a picture appeared - my group on returning from the exit (15 conscripts) and you, speaking these words ... what a predictable result ...
  17. Dimy4
    Dimy4 16 June 2013 12: 14
    +3
    By the way, about the preparation. in the 80s, at a school in the graduating classes of all males for 2 weeks, they were taken for preliminary, so to speak, preparation for army service. We have in the Kostroma region it was a shortbread. There was a completely army regime, an obstacle course, shooting from weapons. And the draftee, already drafted into active military service, had some idea of ​​the army. It would be nice to revive, though shit-democrats and liberals will raise a howl, but they should not give a damn. Basic military knowledge is necessary for a normal peasant.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 12: 40
      +6
      Dimy4

      I will surprise you, but in the Soviet time in the SSVG, even the wives of officers and schoolchildren, from the 4th grade underwent such training. At the final stage of training there was a shooting range (shooting from AK and throwing hand grenades).

      But for a soldier (at least an conscript, at least a contract soldier) this is not enough. We need reservists.
  18. aviamed90
    aviamed90 16 June 2013 12: 30
    +4
    Flying Dutchman

    I don’t get it. What time are you talking about the army? Peaceful? Or military?

    The peacetime army is just the strength to repel the enemy’s first strike and is designed for a certain period of time. Then these forces should be built up by mobilizing reservists.
    Yes, of course, it is possible in peacetime to solve some problems with such an army (war with Georgia), but even if a local or regional war arises, mobilization (full or partial) will be necessary. I don’t even speak about a large-scale war. Although it has already been recognized that such a war is possible in principle.

    The question arises - where will the reservists come from under the contract army if no one prepared them (i.e. they did not serve in the army)? Encourage students trained in NVP lessons?

    Do you propose to abandon mobilization events? By whom and by what then will you fight?

    And most importantly, what kind of wars are we preparing for with today's army?
    1. Flying Dutchman
      Flying Dutchman 16 June 2013 13: 27
      -2
      I can’t imagine a crazy country that will declare war on the largest nuclear power. And for the rest of the wars, professionals will be much more effective than conscripts.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 16 June 2013 13: 43
        +5
        Again.
        Where do you find so many professionals? How and where do you prepare them?
        Or invite and hire abroad?

        You already decide what the country needs an army for. For minor clashes with countries such as Georgia and restoring order in the Caucasus or to repel aggression from abroad. Or do you not see such potential aggressors?

        And are you sure that Russia will use nuclear weapons? This is very fraught!
        Special analysts assure that it is precisely a large-scale war with conventional weapons that is possible, but the use of nuclear weapons is unlikely. Neither the potential adversary nor we need this.

        And what in local and regional wars can you oppose to the adversary? An army of 700-800 thousand people? Of which, in combat there are even fewer soldiers and officers.

        Will you "rattle" nuclear weapons on every occasion?

        1. Flying Dutchman
          Flying Dutchman 16 June 2013 14: 08
          0
          And then why do we need nuclear weapons? Let’s then abandon it and we will consume everyone in a row, and not just those who have not paid off and increase the term of conscription, or do you think that in a year of service you can make a good soldier out of conscripts?
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 16 June 2013 16: 10
            0
            During the war, the training period for ordinary infantry was 3 months.
            1. Andrei
              Andrei 16 June 2013 18: 33
              0
              Avenger711, this is so, but do not forget that then the armament was simpler, and the front demanded! There was simply no time for more thorough preparation. then peacetime officers were trained as tank officers for 2 years, and in war 1, compare with the time that is now spent on training a tank officer.
          2. Andrei
            Andrei 16 June 2013 18: 28
            0
            Nuclear weapons are needed so that another owner of nuclear weapons has no desire to use it against us - nuclear deterrence as soon as someone applies nuclear weapons to the example of Russia, such a hype will rise and, in any case, someone will "smash" us with the use of nuclear weapons, and then there will definitely be a Big P ... c. AND
            or do you think that in a year of service you can make a good soldier out of conscripts?
            no, but for a large-scale war, when soldiers die in hundreds or even thousands every day, such training is enough - you must agree that at least some preparation is better than nothing - and to give an enlisted soldier at least the basics for a year is possible, but if the soldier is before serving in the army I’ve been trained at least at school in NVP lessons and preferably in DOSAAF or in the sports section (for example, I learned hand-to-hand combat skills, swimming, mark shooting), then it’s generally excellent.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 16 June 2013 13: 47
        +3
        Regional wars require a mob. reserve. Highly trained, as in Israel. To maintain an army that is capable of participating in the regional conflict of Russia is too expensive for the number criterion.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 16 June 2013 13: 45
      +3
      With local mobilization is not needed. Moreover, it is harmful. Time factor - it is necessary for combat coordination.

      Reservists must not be trained in the army. Training centers or some other similar solution. There should not be conscripts in the troops; the interests of high combat readiness require this.
      1. svp67
        svp67 16 June 2013 13: 49
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        With local mobilization is not needed. Moreover, it is harmful. Time factor - it is necessary for combat coordination.

        Do you know such a term as not general, but partial mobilization? If you want to or not, but in case of a local conflict, its implementation is not excluded - at least with regard to transport infrastructure ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 16 June 2013 14: 07
          +2
          Even partial. Introduce new people to the unit - please spend time on its combat coordination.
          Under the reservists, it is necessary to organize other structures, something like Soviet personnel units.
          1. aviamed90
            aviamed90 16 June 2013 14: 19
            +3
            "something like Soviet personnel units"

            Which recently did the Russian Defense Ministry successfully refuse?

            So who calculated all this? Serdyukov with the ladies?
            Or nobody came close to this question at all?

            Someone blurted out - you need a million! Is that all? Who counted?

            And where is our lovely General Staff? What is he doing?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 16 June 2013 14: 24
              0
              Quote: aviamed90
              Which recently did the Russian Defense Ministry successfully refuse?

              Exactly.
              A rather stupid situation: why drag conscripts into the army, train them if there is nothing to reserve for mobilization except small arms, civilian vehicles and long-forgotten officers?
              1. aviamed90
                aviamed90 16 June 2013 15: 10
                +4
                Lopatov

                But we also had storage bases: tank, aviation, etc. Why did they get cut? Who did they interfere with? Financing is a minimum, but there would be a reserve!

                He himself took part in the distillation of the Su-17m4 at such a storage base at Step.Air (ZabVO) in 1994. At that time there were something like about 800 boards of various types. MiG-21; 23; 27, Su-17 ... Even each was lifted into the air once a year! Why refused?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 16 June 2013 16: 00
                  +3
                  Cut, received income. Everything is simple. By the way, used aerodrome plates are expensive.
          2. Gloomy
            Gloomy 16 June 2013 17: 29
            0
            something like soviet personnel units


            In the SA were cropped military units.
  19. My address
    My address 16 June 2013 12: 34
    +4
    To serve on the call, the necessary specialists on the contract (attendants of complex technology).
    Serve one and a half years.
    At the end of the service very serious benefits.
    If you suspect hazing and similar inspection of the military department of another district. If there are deficiencies in the part-part, to dismiss / judge, the connections are written in a personal matter.
    Contractors and officers checked annually by testing and polygraph.
  20. mithridate
    mithridate 16 June 2013 13: 30
    +2
    why not a mixed picking system? if necessary, who will be subject to mobilization?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 16 June 2013 13: 59
      +1
      Mixed does not provide highly effective mob training. reserve. It is necessary to solve various tasks of combat training for permanent and draft personnel.

      Imagine a mixed-use mortar platoon. Mortar commanders, gunners and drivers are contract soldiers, the rest are conscripts. Instead of dragging a fire platoon at a speed and automatism of tactical missions in difficult conditions, the platoon commander has to start every half year with the basics for young replenishment.
      As a result, there is neither fish nor meat: there is no normal trained fire platoon from the contract soldiers, and fully prepared calculations for the reserve - among conscripts there will be no mortar commanders, gunners and drivers really prepared for military operations.
      1. Andrei
        Andrei 16 June 2013 18: 43
        0
        Lopatov (1), why not use such a manning system in which, for example, in a division one regiment is completely contract, the other is partly from contract soldiers, partly from conscripts (at least: commanders of squads, calculations, deputy platoon commanders are contract soldiers, the rest are conscripts) but at the same time these are those conscripts who have already passed the "training" and have mastered their specialty to one degree or another. ? And the third regiments (where they are, where not to form) to make cadre, where will the soldiers and officers of the reserve and reserve undergo training / retraining, and these third regiments, in the event of mobilization, will be staffed from these soldiers and officers?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 16 June 2013 20: 19
          0
          In training centers, you can assemble the command and teaching staff, specially prepared for the training of this kind of contingent. You can divide the fighters of different calls.
        2. aviamed90
          aviamed90 16 June 2013 20: 28
          0
          Andrei

          While these "training" regiments will be mobilized - who will defend the Motherland?

          But seriously - why would the division commander be at the advanced training regiment? He needs to fight and do it immediately! And do not accept young replenishment under enemy fire.
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 14: 13
      +4
      Look at the armies of the West - everyone must have a reserve (approximate data), despite the various ways of manning:

      USA (voluntary service):
      Regular aircraft - about 1 million 463 thousand people.
      The National Guard - about 430 thousand people.
      National reserve - about 325 thousand people.
      + citizens with military training (number unknown).
      TOTAL under arms in case of war: about 2 million 218 thousand people + troops of NATO allies (if interested - count).

      China (military service and voluntary service):
      Regular aircraft - about 2 million 250 thousand people.
      People's Armed Police (part of the army) - about 1 million 300 thousand people.
      People’s militia - about 12 million people.
      TOTAL under arms in case of war: 15 million 550 thousand (potentially about 60 million people)


      And our declared strength is 1 million 134 thousand people. In reality, something is about 800 thousand people. + Internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - about 182,5 thousand people. I find it difficult to name our mobilization resources and reserves.

      And do you still propose destroying the mobilization reserve and abandoning the mobilization resource?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 16 June 2013 14: 27
        +2
        Quote: aviamed90
        And do you still propose destroying the mobilization reserve and abandoning the mobilization resource?

        I propose to separate the mob preparation. reserve from the army. Some pluses are both a highly trained reserve and highly trained troops.
        The second option is a 3-year 4-year urgent service, which no one will go to. Yes, and strained big for the economy.
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 16 June 2013 15: 14
          +2
          In order to separate the preparation of the mobile reserve from the regular army, it will be necessary to create another parallel army, but now a reserve (or training) one.
          And where do you get funds for its weapons, training base, etc.? Will it be cheaper?

          And how to prepare officers for the reserve? Pilots, submariners, sailors, artillerymen, Strategic Missile Forces, air defense personnel, etc.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 16 June 2013 16: 01
            0
            It is parallel. And it's expensive. But effective. The reserve of officers - cropped parts plus the constant retraining of reserve officers.
  21. Vilor
    Vilor 16 June 2013 15: 34
    +5
    Here's my question. Do you know what kind of contract soldiers are now? (I shouldn't, but I'm talking about my own people) Approximately 50 to 50. Good and incomprehensible drunkards. This is a special intelligence unit !!! Half do something, the other half WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo anything !!! It got really bad after 2010 of course. Old guys who were still in the Caucasus and did not take the exam, quit their jobs and all kinds of trash came. Especially the old people had great grievances for Ossetia. They promised a lot of money, but in the end they gave nothing. We just dream that the guys from the late 20th to the early 21st century will return, even if they already have a belly of the industry. But as for the conscripts, firstly, the guys really want to learn something, albeit a year, and secondly, they certainly don't have much choice))) Although, of course, the level of education ... Well, there's nothing to say at all. People who have just graduated from school or college have to tell ELEMENTARY things. What is HISTORY or GEOGRAPHY people have never heard !!! And you should have seen the notes !!! It's just something !!! My teacher of the Russian language would have seen it, she would have gone crazy. With this, you can speak instead of Zadornov. And some, I will emphasize some of the Officers (although every year there are more and more) it seems only from the outfits ... taught to ride. They are being retrained by commanders who have received a normal education. Here is just one drawback, the Serdyukovskaya organized criminal group, most of the REAL OFFICERS were fired. Therefore, there are fewer real commanders. Therefore, my opinion is only 50 to 50. Remember the wonderful cartoon 'About Vova Sidorov', 'if you don't know how to teach, if you don't want to force it))) (yes, I also have mistakes in the Russian language, especially with commas)))))
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 15: 45
      +2
      Vilorou

      We are now discussing all sorts of "pieces of iron" and measures to mobilize. Indeed, no one assessed the quality of contract soldiers or future reservists. And this is an equally important question.

      But this question is not for the military. And to the state, first of all. The state is more interested in the "thoughtless obedient cannon fodder" in the army - "no matter what happens" and the same "slaves" in industry in civilian life. Workers (not slaves) are of no interest to anyone - they have to be paid and respected, which is expensive.

      Look at what's going on with the union movement! It almost came to naught. As soon as criminal articles were introduced for strikes and protests of the population.

      Well, the army is working with the contingent that is available. And it’s too late to re-educate them, yes, and impossible.
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 16 June 2013 16: 37
      0
      yeah ... we had a very strict relationship with alcohol. They immediately escorted us from the unit, and it was decided within the team. First of all, the commander should be responsible for this. And it doesn’t matter if there are enough people in the staff or not. intelligence
    3. Hleb
      Hleb 16 June 2013 16: 54
      0
      it doesn’t fit in my head, what kind of intelligence team is this, where half plows, and the second put on the first ???
      1. Vilor
        Vilor 17 June 2013 00: 56
        0
        Unfortunately, this is so. Sorry, but you have to write a detailed answer for a couple of articles.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 17 June 2013 04: 14
          +1
          why, for a couple of articles (although I would read about it), you can briefly describe the reasons for this. I am very interested. If there is time, tell
          (you happen to be writing from the Krasnodar Territory?)
  22. Skifo
    Skifo 16 June 2013 15: 37
    +3
    Maybe few people will support me, but during my life in military camps, as well as about 10 years late for various military tasks, I very rarely met respect for the management team on the part of not only conscripts, but also contractors. And it was not only the organization of military service in general, but often the behavior of the commanders, their attitude to subordinates, how they got to a senior position and what they had to do with military personnel. This is a huge problem - the commanders have no patriotism and desire to defend the HOMELAND in the first place! For the most part, they are only concerned about improving personal well-being! As a rule, they don’t give a damn about irregular relationships, the standard of living of subordinates, or the results of professional combat training!
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 15: 49
      0
      Skifo

      You are talking about modernity.

      And you ask those who served in the 60s, 70s, 80s! They can tell you a lot!
      And everything was different! More humane.
      1. Skifo
        Skifo 16 June 2013 15: 52
        0
        I agree! Everything was more humane, my father is a military man! But we are discussing the realities of the present.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. 128mgb
    128mgb 16 June 2013 16: 04
    0
    Quote: Skifo
    I agree! Everything was more humane, my father is a military man! But we are discussing the realities of the present.

    Brother, do not waste your money, take one of the parties. The third party is not ours. (Drunk)
  25. creak
    creak 16 June 2013 16: 43
    +1
    Quote: aviamed90
    "something like Soviet personnel units"

    Only not personnel, but cropped. As they say, two big differences.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 16 June 2013 16: 54
      0
      Right My typo.
  26. darksoul
    darksoul 16 June 2013 16: 53
    +1
    A little off topic but still, I was looking for information on the construction of two military camps on the Kuril Islands and came across this interesting article with a photo report

    http://oko-planet.su/politik/infonfokoreg/182822-lyubimaya-rossiya-kurily-obustr
    oystvo-dalnevostochnogo-forposta-rossii.html

    read, I understand that there is not everything so smooth but still the mood lifted
    1. GP
      GP 16 June 2013 18: 12
      0
      Quote: darksoul
      http://oko-planet.su/politik/infonfokoreg/182822-lyubimaya-rossiya-kurily-obustr

      oystvo-dalnevostochnogo-forposta-rossii.html


      hence the quote:
      "I answer in advance: the locals are categorically against the transfer of the islands to Japan. And there is no need to make such awesome eyes: there are many thousands of kilometers from us to Japan, and several dozen kilometers from them. They certainly better know where they would prefer to live."
  27. falcon
    falcon 16 June 2013 18: 01
    0
    The article seems very superficial to me. The author mixed everything in a bunch - professionalism, principles
    acquisition, issues of protecting the interests of the country abroad.
    Our army is personnel, i.e. professional by definition (antipode-militia i.e.
    lar)) And here's how to make the army highly trained, able to adequately respond to
    Unfortunately, I did not see any challenge in this article.
    1. Valery-SPB
      Valery-SPB 16 June 2013 19: 11
      0
      Quote: falcon
      ... police i.e.
      lar ...


      This is a wrong judgment. Check it out!
    2. Volkhov
      Volkhov 16 June 2013 20: 02
      0
      Quote: falcon
      But how to make the army highly trained, able to adequately respond to
      Unfortunately, I did not see any challenge in this article.

      Why is this necessary? If the army responded to any challenge, we would live in the Russian Empire, the Gorbachev phenomenon would be impossible.
      The army is a Masonic nursery and is imprisoned for external control of an enemy controlled from the same center. And only now a real unpredictable opponent of a higher technical level has appeared ... and everything needs to be done differently.
      It’s like a firefighter - watch is tolerant, and a fire - even quit.
      Under the requirement of "any challenge" the state must be changed.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 16 June 2013 20: 05
        0
        Volkhov

        Your quote:
        "The army is a Masonic nursery and is imprisoned for external control and the enemy, controlled from the same center."

        What do you mean?
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 17 June 2013 03: 57
          -1
          Quote: aviamed90
          What do you mean?

          The fact that the general rarely happens is not a freemason (from the time of Peter the Great) and he is being raised in the army by dividing the servants (up to lieutenant colonel, do not try hard) and thieves.
          External control - well, at least the Chechen wars, when both sides call to Moscow, and from there to America and Europe.
          1. aviamed90
            aviamed90 17 June 2013 08: 05
            0
            Volkhov

            Generals, like other people, are different.

            Zhukov, Rodionov, Shamans, Kuznetsov, Budyonny, Chapaev, Malinovsky, Sokolov, Karbyshev, Bagration, Vasilevsky, Ustinov, Ermolov, Platov - you can continue for a long time.

            And others - Vlasov, Grachev, Voroshilov, Tukhachevsky, Sukhomlinov, Tymoshenko.

            Of course, everyone can argue. But not all were Freemasons!
            1. Volkhov
              Volkhov 17 June 2013 12: 31
              0
              Quote: aviamed90
              Generals, like other people, are different.

              In any organization, if there is a cohesive subgroup of at least a quarter of the composition, and the rest simply fulfill the charter, then this subgroup will decide everything.
              Of course, not all are included there, but the rest are divided, and these are tied to powerful management and financial centers and, accordingly, have an advantage.
              Only their actions are naturally not beneficial to the Russians and beneficial to the outside.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 17 June 2013 00: 04
        0
        Quote: Volkhov
        And only now a real unpredictable opponent of a higher technical level has appeared ... and everything needs to be done differently.

        Do you think the partisans are an adversary of a high-tech level? And appeared just now? But Russia can answer such challenges - send saboteurs to the United States and Britain, let them blow up nuclear power plants, bridges, there are many goals. You can renounce maritime law and arrange terror at sea. Opportunities sea, need willingness to use them.
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 17 June 2013 04: 03
          0
          Not partisans at all - take an interest in the fate of submarines, for example Losharik ...
          And not the United States and Britain, the enemy, they also have problems with drones and with the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln. Nuclear power plants have so far been blown up only by us.
  28. tsiter
    tsiter 16 June 2013 19: 09
    -5
    I want to share with you my recent discovery, this is a service for finding any information about a person! As I saw, I looked and thought that it was all a divorce, but after a minute I was horrified to see all the information about myself, about my friends, about my boyfriend! There is literally everything there and it's all in the public domain! Here you take a look = - rf / geB
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 21: 29
      +1
      tsiter

      Share it with someone else ...
  29. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 16 June 2013 19: 09
    +1
    Undoubtedly, mainly volunteers should serve in the army in peacetime, but it is just as certain that all citizens liable for military service (including those who graduated from secondary specialized educational institutions and universities) should undergo training for military service, training should take place. And here we can see an interesting phenomenon - the army is absolutely not interested in cooperation with civilian educational institutions. Instead of saving time and money, calling on a citizen liable for military service to a position with a VUS similar to the specialty obtained in civilian life, the Ministry of Defense begins to retrain the recruit. And it is not uncommon for an RED engineer to serve as a truck driver instead of an air defense / Strategic Missile Forces / Navy, a surveyor instead of artillery or engineering troops is sent to the ShMAS, and a car mechanic, instead of an autorot, is sent to comprehend the wisdom of a mortarman. Agree, this is not rational. It would be much more logical to create a list of overlapping "civilian specialties" and VUS and send people to the appropriate positions who should not be retrained anew.
    In addition, it would be possible to offer them a transition to a contract with appropriate decent content and career prospects after completing military service by such a military service. Then they will serve more willingly and it will be professionals who remain on the contract.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 21: 37
      0
      Rakti-kali

      This is the work of the military enlistment offices. In recent years, koi have also tasted of Smerdyukov’s reforms ...

      And the "buyer" commander thinks differently. He would rather take 2 Slavic guys without profession and education than 1 surveyor with a university from the Caucasus. Why would he have problems?

      But, ideally, yes - you're right. But where is this ideal?

      For this, the DOSAAF (ROSTO) system was intended and contributed to this, from which one sign remained.
  30. Alekseev
    Alekseev 16 June 2013 21: 36
    0
    Very clever comments, but, it seems to me, one thing is clear: normal conscription service, and in general, decent, combat-ready armed forces (and patriotism too yes ) will appear only when the Russian state is brought into general order.
    Not earlier.
    If we can do this, we will live as a people. No sunset.
    1. Gloomy
      Gloomy 16 June 2013 22: 56
      0
      ... it seems to me that one thing is clear: a normal conscription service, and generally decent, efficient combat forces (and patriotism too) will appear only when the Russian state is brought into general order. ...


      “I sat at home and, as usual, did not know what to do with myself. I wanted something: either the constitution, or the stellar sturgeon with horseradish, or someone to strip. It would be flayed at first, flashed through my head, flayed, and to the side ... And then, having established ourselves as well-intentioned, you can dream about constitutions at your leisure. ”
      (Mikhail Evgrafovich Saltykov-Shchedrin, “Cultural People”)
  31. individual
    individual 16 June 2013 21: 57
    +1
    The article opens a pain point in the education of recruits.
    In 1968, all relatives called and admonished me - there were no high words. All wishes came down to not disgracing the family name.
    I remember there were wishes to acquire any new profession, because everything will come in handy in life. All those who escorted the men told how, where, whom they served. Their stories sounded pride for their former service, and then in the ground forces, the term of service was three years, and in the navy - five years.
    Having lost the ideological foundations of education and the pernicious decomposition of the army by the democrats of the period of the Chechen companies. Then, in his own country, a man in uniform evoked negative emotions and forced officers to change into civilian clothes, and remember the financing of the army by the Gaidars-Chubais-Nemtsovs and Kasyanovshchina with his Misha - 5%.
    It’s easy to break up, to make - to build, to establish is difficult. To everything else, Serdyukovism did not add credibility to the army service.
    And the decision of the conscription service or contract? I believe that there should be a comprehensive approach to the formation of both draft and contract.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 16 June 2013 22: 07
      0
      individ

      I am for the conscription army.
      But I admit - that there are a lot of military specialties, where you cannot do without contract soldiers. Moreover, there are military specialties, where women would be at ease.

      But the bulk of the soldiers - only on appeal. This is the basis.

      About the officers - only voluntarily.
  32. pinecone
    pinecone 16 June 2013 22: 10
    +3
    Quote: Flying Dutchman
    The draft army is an archaism inherited from the time of the Middle Ages. Society must demand a completely contract army from the oligarchic authorities. Conscripts in these times are not operational.


    This is the blue dream of the blue oligarchic power, to turn the army into a huge mass of professional guards of stolen capital.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 16 June 2013 22: 44
      +1
      And the dream of normal officers.
  33. Alekseev
    Alekseev 16 June 2013 22: 24
    0
    Quote: pinecone
    Quote: Flying Dutchman
    The draft army is an archaism inherited from the time of the Middle Ages. Society must demand a completely contract army from the oligarchic authorities. Conscripts in these times are not operational.

    The Dutchman needs to learn history better.
    It was in the Middle Ages the heyday of double basses. Landsknecht, vassals of my vassal, etc.
    On the call then in "difficult" cases the militia gathered. And fought, sometimes not bad at all. (Battle of Kulikovo, etc.)
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 17 June 2013 00: 12
      +1
      Quote: Alekseev
      And she fought, sometimes not at all bad. (Battle of Kulikovo, etc.)

      Well, you give, about the Kulikovo battle, only what it was reliably known is reliable, and you are discussing the composition of the army. Unlike a conscript, the militia is not a soldier yet.
  34. cornet
    cornet 16 June 2013 23: 40
    +1
    Yes, they are good at recruiting contractors, the only army where in order to get a contract you have to pay or a big deal, in North Ossetia the rates are the same for the internal troops, part 58 of the army from 130 thousand rubles, to the border detachment up to a million, to the police 250 tons, all in the republic about it it is known that it remains to hang the price list at the gates of the units, without money or blat is not an option, then they will take it for signing a new contract, GLORY TO THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION!
  35. I think so
    I think so 17 June 2013 01: 53
    0
    There have not been cases in history that a mercenary army won the WAR. The war is won only by the PEOPLE'S ARMY, SUPPORT. And all the stories about "professionalism", "contract soldier", this is HARMFUL and undermining the foundations of statehood. Or, at worst, the INCOMPETENCY of the current government, which has realized its INABILITY to rule the country and is making desperate attempts to at least powder the brain of its voters ... It's a pity that all this will turn into HUGE blood for the country in the future ...
    1. Tao
      Tao 17 June 2013 04: 12
      0
      Win the war? - With current technologies, the People’s Army and the militias will be destroyed within 1 week, or 1 day (if broken by a nuclear) To everything else, if the government wants to conquer new lands again ... let it save its own first. Or do you seriously think that a herd in uniform will be able to withstand airborne multiple launch rocket systems, and chem. weapons? :)
  36. Tao
    Tao 17 June 2013 04: 56
    0
    All in all, a fun article, sorry no one wants to think. Some shout about morale, traditions, forgetting that a full-scale war on Russia is impossible. Others recall the USSR, forgetting that the USSR was an ideology, and the ideology of Russia ... BABKI. (What do you want from capitalism?). Still others rely on heroism, forgetting that there is no reason to heroize an adequate person (see Abramovich’s yachts) IMHO, it’s true that the generals ALWAYS prepare for the past war. The fact is that conditions, of life, of technology, and of war in general, have changed. We are of my opinion that it is not worth dreaming of any victorious invasions, this is not the situation. Now, in theory, the emphasis should be on border protection.

    What follows the appearance of the army:
    1. Technique: Maximum mobility of equipment. (the emphasis is not on slow-moving tanks and armored personnel carriers, but on aviation, helicopters, long-range artillery (including Tornadoes)
    2. Combined sky protection, for medium-long distances.
    3. The army, in the form of 2 types of troops - heavily armed border guards who are descented in case of a breakthrough (emphasis on range and power) Those. everyone should have a SVD, RPG-29, night vision devices, a powerful bulletproof vest.
    4. Move all satellites along the perimeter of the borders, ensuring constant observation.
    5. Fleet, high-speed heavily armed corvettes, and if there is a breakthrough - nuclear submarines.
    6. For general peace Yarsy, and strategic bombers.
    7. All bases and the army are located on the borders, and not in the center of the country. (closing extra bases)
    8. In the event of a full-scale invasion, use Nuclear weapons.
    9. Strict law: Any transgressor is sentenced to be shot immediately.

    Management of all this, you cannot entrust the "conscript" army MUST be professional, highly paid, with all the amenities. Then, 500 thousand officers will be enough. And the costs will drop by a factor of 5. As for the rest of the population, let the schools undergo minimal combined-arms training, one FIG training on average 11 years. It’s just patriotism that will increase.
    1. Tao
      Tao 17 June 2013 05: 17
      0
      10 Punishment system: For a serious jamb, act like in the Starship Troopers :) That is tie to a pole, and whip. Then discipline will be normal. And for the issuance of military secrets - Shot :)
  37. viktoxz
    viktoxz 17 June 2013 16: 52
    -1
    people you have not heard that the entire database of Internet users has been leaked to the network with open access! There is all the information from personal photos and videos to personal correspondence and copies of documents. There you can of course delete your data if you do not want everyone to see them. Here is the link- http://addr.pk/a619a