Military Review

Eurasian integration: current situation and prospects

Eurasian Integration: Global Aspect

In the global historical context, economic integration in the Eurasian space is a logical and logical process. In the context of globalization and increasing competition around the world, there is a steady trend towards the emergence and strengthening of regional economic associations. In view of the continuing crisis phenomena in the global financial and economic system, the integration processes become even more relevant and significant. United States united by common interests and tasks more successfully operate in the global economy, gaining real competitive advantages.

The states-participants of the Commonwealth of Independent States are also following the path of building up multilateral cooperation. Today, in accordance with the principle of multi-level and different-speed integration in the CIS space, various
integration formats: the Eurasian Economic Community (EurAsEC), the Organization of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), the Customs Union (CU), the Common Economic Space (CES). They seamlessly complement each other, creating a broad partnership platform.

At the same time, the interests of our citizens, the task of maintaining and strengthening traditional ties between countries are put at the forefront. The objective advantage of our association is the linguistic community, similar ideological and life standards, well-established production models of interaction.

The core of Eurasian integration

As the leadership of our country has repeatedly stressed, Eurasian integration is the strategic choice of Russia. At the same time, the development of cooperation within the most complex and deep integration formats - the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan - is of particular importance. It is these three countries that became the core of Eurasian integration.

The guidelines for the future work of Moscow, Astana and Minsk are set forth in the Declaration on Eurasian Economic Integration adopted at the Summit of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council 18 in November 2011.

The course towards further development and deepening of the Eurasian integration processes was confirmed during the regular meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council at the level of heads of state during the December 19 held in Moscow 2012.

Customs Union and Common Economic Space

Currently, all the main activities have been carried out to create and ensure the functioning of the Customs Union. A unified regulatory system has been established in many key economic areas. A unified system of foreign trade tariff, non-tariff and customs regulation, conducting a coordinated policy in the field of technical regulation, the application of sanitary, veterinary and phytosanitary measures has been formed.

From 1 July 2011, the customs, sanitary, veterinary, quarantine phytosanitary, and transport state control was transferred from the Russian-Belarusian and Russian-Kazakh border to the external border of the Customs Union.
Fully formed a single Customs territory of the Customs Union with the free movement of goods within it and a single approach to all goods. Eliminating administrative barriers greatly facilitates business operations not only for national operators of the three countries, but also for foreign businesses.

Work is proceeding systematically to create the Common Economic Space of the Troika. Since January 1, the 2012 package came into force on the basis of the 17 agreements that form the contractual and legal framework of the SES. In the development of this base package before 2015, it is envisaged to adopt more
fifty international regulatory documents, as well as make the necessary changes to the national legislation of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

By creating a Customs Union, the parties ensured the freedom of movement of goods. Introducing the package of international agreements of the SES, they also provided the prerequisites for the free movement of services, capital and labor resources. In the long term - an exit on realization of the coordinated monetary and macroeconomic policy.

Practical results of integration

New integration formats already bring quite concrete practical returns. It is expressed not only in figures of growth in GDP and mutual trade, although they are significant. For example, in the first six months since the beginning of the full-scale operation of the CU in July 2011, the volume of mutual trade of the States members of the Customs Union has grown
almost 40%, January-September 2012 g. - 10%. On the whole, for the CU / CES states, the increase in 2012 produced in January-September was 4% compared to the same
2011 period of the year, incl. Russia's GDP - by 3,8%, Belarus - by 2,5%, Kazakhstan - 5,2%.

Along with this, the direct result of the functioning of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space was the improvement of the overall investment climate in the CU and CES countries, providing more comfortable business conditions, including small and medium business, and the creation of new jobs. According to current statistics, the number of unemployed registered in employment agencies at the beginning of October 2012 in the whole countries of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space was lower than the 2011 of the year by 19,6% (in Belarus the decline was 12,8%, Russia - 19,1 %, Kazakhstan - 30,5%).

Supranational body of the Eurasian integration project

An important element contributing to the deepening of Eurasian integration is the creation of the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC). The Commission, which began work on 1 in February 2012, is a single permanent regulatory body of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. In accordance with the agreements on the SES, as well as the Treaty on the Eurasian Economic Commission, a number of functions and powers have been transferred to the supranational level of the EEC. The Commission took over the issues of customs tariff and technical regulation, the establishment of trade regimes in relation to third countries, competitive, macroeconomic and energy policy, a number of other positions.

It is fundamentally important that the decision-making mechanism within the framework of the ECE excludes the dominance of any member state of the Customs Union. Its governing body, the College, consists of three representatives from each of the troika states. The Commission becomes a key structure in the Eurasian space. Gradually, the CU and SES states will transfer more and more new powers to it.

Possible expansion of the integration project

The Russian side regards Eurasian economic integration as an unconditional priority of its work in the CIS space. The promotion of integration processes within the framework of the “troika” does not mean a desire to distance itself from other countries. On the contrary
From the very beginning, the Eurasian project was conceived as a structure open to other states, primarily members of EurAsEC and CIS members. At the same time, it is important that countries that have expressed a desire to join the Eurasian integration project not only share its goals and principles, but also really be ready for their implementation.

The countries of the CU and the SES are striving to further strengthen comprehensive mutually beneficial and equal cooperation with other countries and international integration associations, with a way to create a common economic space. We are sincere
they are interested in that the nearest neighbors would not be placed artificially before a difficult choice between the “western” and “eastern” vector of development, but could participate in the integration processes throughout the Eurasian space.

For citizens, the removal of migration, border and other barriers, the so-called “labor quotas”, will mean the possibility to choose where to live, get an education, work without any restrictions. By the way, in the USSR, with its institute of registration, there was no such freedom. ”

All this does not mean the restoration of the former USSR. This is impossible due to objective circumstances, and this is not necessary. This will be a qualitatively different, equitable unification of states, based primarily on a common economic interest. The policy in this case will objectively adjust to these interests. No doubt, with time, other CIS countries will be able to enter into such a union.
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  1. tarks
    tarks 13 June 2013 15: 36 New
    urgently need to popularize the Russian language!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 17: 06 New
      Kazakhs and Belarusians do not speak Russian well?
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 13 June 2013 17: 18 New
        No, people who have successfully passed the EG do not speak Russian well!

        “it will mean the possibility, without any restrictions, to choose where to live, get an education, work. By the way, in the USSR, with its institute of registration, there was no such freedom”
        I would like to advise the author to go to find a job in Ingushetia or Uzbekistan. So, throw a Moscow apartment and wave to Ichkeria, check how it is there, is it easier to find a job than in the USSR or more difficult?
      2. Ataman
        Ataman 13 June 2013 17: 34 New
        Belarusians use the Russian language in everyday life and in official documents. Newspapers and television, having tried to switch to mov in the 90s, now amicably returned to the great and mighty. Dzyarzhaunaya Mova Sustrakaetsstsa only at the names of the towns. Recently, travel cards began to print in Russian, because many did not know that such a "lipen" in a month.
        Kazakhs in everyday life and in official documents can use both Russian and Kazakh. In documents, they often use Russian, because Kazakh has no specific terms. Russian is spoken purely without an accent. In shops, airports, train stations with the Russian language there is not the slightest problem.
        Respectfully, to Belarusians and Kazakhs, Ataman hi
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 18: 50 New
          Ataman, that's right. In Kazakhstan, people are fluent in the Russian language, and many ethnic Kazakhs can also give odds to ethnic Russians in Russia in terms of knowledge of this language.
          The only thing I would like to correct is the terminological base of the Kazakh language, it’s just that it’s much more common for people to use words of Russian origin (or rather, words that came from the Russian language). “Presentation” is “betashar”, “umbrella” is “kolshatyr”, but Kazakh equivalents are used more often only in official or business speech, and in everyday life a large number of Russian words. You can call them parasitic words, you can call it linguistic interference, but in any case, it clearly shows how widespread the Russian language is in Kazakhstan.
          Anecdote on this topic:
          Two Kazakhs on business have arrived in Moscow; they are coming from the airport by taxi. One Kazakh addresses a friend:
          - Serik, punishment, driver of horns, terrible eken ...
          The taxi driver turns around and asks offendedly:
          “Guys, why don't you like my face?”
          - Oybay, how do you know the Kazakh language ???

          In fairness, it is worth noting that the speech of the Russian Kazakhstanis also underwent a certain "Kazakhization" taking into account local realities. Russian Kazakhstani (even who does not speak Kazakh at all) uses words and phrases in everyday speech: "salam", "agashka", "arak", "tateshka", "aksha", "besbarmachit", "bastik", "baursak" , "kutta bolsyn", etc.
          Regarding the accent, then the Kazakhs have it. Usually those who rarely use Russian. In terms of sound, this accent is quite similar to the Volga-Tatar one. However, even those who exclusively constantly speak only Russian have pronunciation features. This is manifested in some words, where there are sounds (usually "k", "e", "h", "s", etc.) that Kazakhs automatically pronounce according to the specific rules of Kazakh speech. So the word “orbit” can sound from the lips of the Russian-speaking Kazakh as “Orbita”, “of course” - “Caneshna”, etc. And the funny thing is that even Russians who do not speak the Kazakh language subconsciously mastered the peculiarities of Kazakh pronunciation and speak Russian with these Kazakh nuances. However, Russia also has regional dialects.
          Z.Y. This small linguistic excursion is given simply to remind that our peoples have long been close, our languages ​​have been constantly influencing each other for almost a half thousand years. Sometimes Russian speech reminds a Turkic-speaking person of the same anecdote that I told above, only with the exact opposite. "AT feather grass steppe grazing herd of horses. On mound standing tent of the Cossack guard. Two Cossack examined the horizon beyond which was visible scarlet border the sun. Ataman took out pockets pockets and held out comrade. He sat on cartcovered felt, stripped off sash и papahuthrew them on a nightmare Near whip и daggerand lit a cigarette. "In this passage, I highlighted the words that fell into the Russian language from Turkic.
          Language is the best evidence of who is friends with whom, shares bread, works, and who sits with whom in one trench. And the formation of the Eurasian Union is a natural process that has not actually been interrupted for more than a thousand years, taking different political forms in different eras.
          1. zart_arn
            zart_arn 13 June 2013 19: 47 New
            He served with the guys from Kazakhstan, three Kazakhs, a Ukrainian, a German, two Russians, a Kurd. Of these, only one Kazakh from southern Kazakhstan is Russian — not a nonsense, the rest are all really Russian (literary) even better than the native Russians spoke.
            1. Andrey KZ
              Andrey KZ 13 June 2013 20: 04 New
              In southern Kazakhstan, only the residents of the most remote villages are poorly spoken. The rest are at least a solid four! I remember our president once spoke out on this subject - knowledge of the Russian language is a competitive advantage for Kazakhstanis.
          2. Black
            Black 13 June 2013 19: 50 New
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            In this passage, I highlighted the words that fell into the Russian language from the Turkic.
            Language is the best evidence of who is friends with whom, shares bread, works, and who sits with whom in one trench.

            Very accurate and beautifully said !!!!

            According to the language. I could not understand the Russian grandmother-Cossack without the "interpreter"!
          3. hrych
            hrych 14 June 2013 09: 42 New
            The feathered steppe, horse, scarlet, cart, and most importantly the merchant's word comrade, has nothing to do with the Turkic language. If in Turkic there is the word "alasha", then to the word horse, as before the moon, the coincidence of the letters "l" and "w", but the absence of "d", and even accented, after which a whole soft sign is placed, can only say about the possible the origin of the Turkic word from Russian. For in word formation there is a loss of sounds, especially the latter, but not vice versa. In the Persian language, which is undoubtedly Iranian-Aryan, the word ALA denotes a reddish and actually this word denoting a scarlet color, it is considered already of Nostratic (pre-Indo-European) origin. The only Nostratic - literary (having ancient writing) languages ​​include only the Elamite and Etruscan languages ​​and there were no Türks at that time. I do not blame anything, but the truth is more expensive.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 11: 20 New
              Grunt, feather grass - not to waddle or forge from the Slavic root, but from the Turkic root “cauldron” (“lose, shed skin, leaves”), “kovalyk” - “reed”.
              With the word "steppe" it’s more difficult. Most likely, this word came to the Russian language from the Alanian nomads "(s) ter" from "t᾽æрæn" - "flat, level, lowland". If this assumption is true (all other variants of etymology are very weak), then the circle closes again on the Türks, since the Alanian "tepen" comes from the Türkic "taban" - "flat" / "sole".
              Scarlet - well, that one is easier. The root of the word "al" came from the language of Turkic nomads. This word and now in all Turkic languages ​​means "light pink, light red." It is possible that the word is pre-Indo-European, but there it has a meaning associated with fire. And most importantly - this root is not found in European languages, but only in Asian, Middle Eastern. In the Russian language, the word "al" in its pure Turkic form fell during the Horde. Later appeared the form "scarlet". By the way, the name of the Tatar singer Alsu literally translates as "Pink Water".
              Cart - from the ancient Altai word "tele" ("transport"). The Türks even had a whole nation called "tele" (literally "carts"). Their descendants are the modern Teleuts of Altai. The word in the Turkic language was replaced by "arba", but the Mongols (also the people of the Altai language group) have preserved the verb "tele" ("transport") so far. "Telegen" is a "cart". "Kolymyaga" - by the way, is also Turkism. Slavic words - "cart", "wagon", "sleigh".
              Comrade - literally "business partner" in Turkic. "Product" + "shy". "Tauar" / "tawar" in all Turkic languages ​​means "goods". In ancient times, it meant "cattle" (in the meaning of "property"). The ending "shy", "chy" in the Turkic language means belonging to the profession, for example, "temir" - "iron", "temirshi / temirchi" - "blacksmith". Literally "tavarshi" / "tauarshi" - "one who deals in goods."
              In Russian, the word "comrade" / "comrades" had, as you know, exclusively business content;) "Business partner".
              There is a word "alasha" in Turkic. But the "horse" came from Turkism "alasha at" ("pinto"). The Turks almost all horses were pinto. And the phrase "alasha at" in the end meant any horse (some Turkic / Mongolian peoples had the meaning "gelding"). It is likely that the “alasha at” were the first to be adopted by the Finno-Ugric peoples, meaning as a sign for any horse. And from there the word fell into the Russian language, and not directly from the Turkic. Among Finno-Ugric peoples, this word is preserved to this day. The Slavic word is “horse”.
              1. hrych
                hrych 14 June 2013 12: 50 New
                A colleague, the word product, not for cattle, but for its intended purpose is available for Czechs - tovóra, for Slovenes - tóvor, for Serbo-Croats - for goods. The word for its intended purpose is mentioned in the teachings of Vlodimir Monomakh. If the Russians can be suspected of borrowing, then there are no Czechs, who, if only they are Germanized and the steppes, were seen in the pictures. The Germans’s product, by the way, is Ware, which is generally the same root as the root root, the root “var”. Accordingly, this word of Slovenian origin is unambiguous. It is not a fact that the Turks have it from the Slavs, but rather came from the Indo-European language, which is the proto-language of the Slavs, but had a strong influence on the Finno-Ugric and Altai and other groups. Türkic professional endings -shi and -chi, well, but in our word there is an explicit “seek”, a verb with an explicit meaning. Yes, and explicit "and", a clear "u" (not "h" and not "w", and absolutely not "s"). You can pronounce Commodity-Ischi, but the verb “search” comes out even more clearly. Another feature in the Russian word “horse” is its feminine gender and singularly means exclusively the mare, and for the horse the masculine gender is already prepared, which again speaks of doubtfulness some kind of borrowing. If you need to add additional color characteristics to the mare, lose the initial “a”, and indeed in the horse, the second letter with “a” is not interchangeable and “lash” will sound just wild to us. The version is beautiful, but I'm afraid of an untenable one, especially a long way through the Finno-Ugric peoples, which in horse breeding have not become famous. Here, of course, we broke more than one spear in languages ​​and probably will not solve the problem within the framework of reviews, but I suggest that you come to the conclusion that all languages ​​are descended from one and naturally many words are similar independently of each other.
                Regards, Colleague.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 13: 31 New
                  "... The Czech researcher J. Peisker (1905) paid serious attention to the long-standing ties between the Slavic languages ​​and the Turkic ones. ... Turkic linguistic influences on the Slavs cover a very wide period and cannot be attributed to later Turkic borrowings, which a lot in both the South Slavic and East Slavic languages. the presence of words of Turkic origin in Western Slavic languages ​​is very revealing. True, Turkisms could penetrate into Polish through Ukrainian, and into Slovak and Czech through Hungarian... "
                  I will add that Turkisms could also spread during the times when the Turks settled in the ON ("Polish-Lithuanian Tatars") or under the influence of the "Ottoman heyday", when a huge number of Turkish words fell into the Slavic languages ​​of Central Europe. Plus, really - Hungarian influence, in which there is simply a huge mass of Turkic words (I recall that Finno-Ugric-speaking Magyars consider themselves descendants of the Türks).
                  Regarding the end, These are all regional dialects. The dying can also be pronounced like -chi, -cha. Let me remind you that the undoubted Türkisms denoting the type of activity - architect, treasurer, weaver (Türkic "tokuchs / tokushs" - I draw attention to the fact that the vowels "o" and "u" in this word are practically swallowed in colloquial speech by the Turks, especially the sound "o ") and I can even remember KASCHAYA (Cats, cats are literally" nomad "in Turkic).
                  If the word “comrade” had the verbal root “seek / seek,” the word would most likely be transformed into a commodity finder or even into some kind of “commodity seeker”. Well, or just a Russian word would have the usual ending -nik (commodity) or simply “product”.
                  The phrase "alasha at" is pronounced only as "alashat", because double vowels are usually swallowed into one sound by the Türks (long vowels are characteristic of a few Türks, for example, Kyrgyz). And taking into account the unstressedness of the first sound “a” in the word “alashat”, the transformation into “lashat” in the language of other peoples is quite natural. Moreover, as I mentioned, this word most likely did not come directly from Turkic, but rather boiled a little more in the Finno-Ugric cauldron, whose linguistic features, unfortunately, I do not know.
                  The Finno-Ugrians totally adopted the “horse” vocabulary from the Türks for obvious reasons. And after these peoples joined the Russian nation, many words from their language (including toponyms and hydronyms, essno) entered the Russian language.
                  Regarding the fact that this is a Russian word, based on the fact that there are separate words for distinguishing sex, then you will not say why there is a chicken, but there is a rooster, but there is no “special” common word in the singular? A hare, a hare, what’s the "gender-wide" word?
                  And so that there is no feeling that only Turkic words fell into the East Slavic languages, I will give reverse examples. The Kazakh word "sirinke" ("matches") appeared from the Ukrainian "sulfuric". Or, for example, the word "zhurmeңke" appeared from the Russian word "fair" (which in turn came from the Jahrmarkt, brought by German colonists).
                  There are funny cases when a word passed from language to language, and then back. For example, the word "prison" came to Russian from Turkic, and then returned back to the time of the Russian Empire, when the Turks already forgot it and used the other word "zindan", and became the word "turme" in the modern Kazakh language.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 14 June 2013 14: 14 New
                    That if a researcher found Turkic words in the west, where there has never been a Turkic presence, one does not have to fantasize about a long campaign of words from Ukrainians to Poles, from Hungarians to Slovaks and beyond, it smacks of pan-Turkic propaganda. In such cases, dropping ideological cliches, one can rather conclude that the word came to the Türks from there, or rather, from neighbors who have been using these words since ancient times and are in contact with the Türks, or the word is a genus from common proto-languages. The Magyars and Finno-Ugrians did not know that their language was given so and so. Again the horse, you are looking for a difficult and long way, when this simply does not make sense, especially the matching to the similarity of the word with the addition of a separate word for pinto. Well, you need to understand that this is far-fetched. And I'm sorry to say that all the horses of the Great Steppe were piebald, well, just not serious. Everything is much simpler - there is contact - there is interpenetration of words, there is no contact there is no word. When the Germans who did not see the steppes use the word Hauptman, the Poles - the hetman, the Russians - the Atoman, even the Anglo-Saxons call the headman you do not need to look far in the east and draw by the ears to the Turkic ata (grandfather) even more so where this word is not used at all. It is clear that the Russian chieftain lost the first letter "g" and it is necessary to look for more than that, and this is the hetman. And in the Crimea it was the name of the Christians, and for amazing reasons they were also Goths by origin.
              2. hrych
                hrych 14 June 2013 13: 24 New
                If we look west, and not east, we find the Frankish word -coach, which is very consonant with the cart and naturally marks the wagon. So remembered.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 13: 48 New
                  I do not know the etymology of the word "stagecoach", but the French verb "heap", from which the Russian "coachman" came from and the English "coach" is of Turkic (probably from Hungarian) origin.

                  I looked at the "stagecoach" in Google:
                  1) Stagecoaches (from French carosse de diligence, “agile crew”) ...
                  2) The word diligence itself: - mid-14c., From Old French diligence "attention, care; haste, speed," from latin diligentia "attentiveness, carefulness," from diligentem (nominative diligens) "attentive, assiduous, careful".
                  Thus, the stagecoach is literally “agile” (in French) and “attentive, caring” (in Latin) and initially did not in any way relate to the concept of “wagon”. The cart is "carosse".
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        2. starshina78
          starshina78 13 June 2013 21: 15 New
          If one of the youths does not know, then the Russian language was a compulsory subject in all schools of the USSR, and therefore those who graduated from high school in the USSR, despite their nationality, speak Russian. Now, young people do not know the Russian language, because they have stopped teaching it in schools, where because of small-town ambitions, where because of hostility towards Russia, Russians, schools teaching in Russian are being eliminated or funded on a residual basis. Just to show their independence (Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic countries, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan).
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 21: 39 New
            In Kazakhstan, the Russian language along with Kazakh and English is taught from kindergarten. The state is pursuing a policy so that every Kazakhstani is fluent in the three languages ​​mentioned, so that we have, as Andrei.KZ has already reminded, a "competitive advantage" on a global professional scale. Now Kazakhs are usually bilingual, Russian Kazakhstanis are usually monolingual, and the younger generation is trained to be polyglot in order to draw knowledge from the Russian-speaking world and the English-speaking, while remaining Kazakhstani.
    2. Mrtermit
      Mrtermit 13 June 2013 18: 46 New
      You are right) And it is desirable in Europe and Asia) For we will go there) I think that Euroses is certainly good, but, the brothers embraced and talked and rallied to the fight, But what will the fray be? And what to make money from? Here, even if for natural resources, we give almost everything to everyone at the same price, but should we not be treated like Europe? There is a region there, there is all of its production, the euro has come, everything has been closed because the Belgian miners have been mining for cheaper than in France, so you don’t get angry with the French ... that’s what my fears about the “Eurasian” lie

      No, of course we can sell high-tech equipment, develop several powerful clusters that fundamentally change the minds of many users, such as the petrochemical industry, and collect profits from this, and simultaneously build up the economic, scientific, technological climate in the country, and smoothly push it towards a constant and stable development, create a fund from which many, not special nano-shoes, or nano-rails there will be financed, but real brilliant developments, further a journey to Mars, to find that very unearthly element there that will allow you to forget about hydrocarbons as fuel. and start deliver the raw materials to the whole world, arrange flights, create a large station there, to extract these materials, you need to raise everything shortly, and you need a goal At least where to strive and what to work for) Because you will not go far to bring up children, you wound the astronauts everyone wanted to go, then the firemen, and now to the deputies) Damn, well, you need to correct plyat situation)

      Reading from Tatarstan)
      please forgive me, but I’m in a hurry, and I’ll be late, so I’ll be glad if you continue my thought, and still tell me a little or at least direct me to the correct flow of information, otherwise I don’t see further prospects and goals for the united brothers ...
    3. kvodrato
      kvodrato 14 June 2013 17: 38 New
      In 2015, the Eurasian Union will be created.
  2. Prometheus
    Prometheus 13 June 2013 15: 36 New
    The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?
    1. Apostle
      Apostle 13 June 2013 15: 50 New
      By uniting Russia, eastern Ukraine and Belarus, creating a single currency, army and idea, we would get a strong, self-sufficient state ... sorry if not for the topic, just about sore .. crying
      1. Apollo
        13 June 2013 16: 13 New
        Quote: Apostle
        By uniting Russia,eastern Ukraine and Belarus, creating a single currency, army and idea, we would get a strong, self-sufficient state ... sorry if not the topic, just about sore ..

        Again we divide Ukraine, well then catch the minus from me. Ukraine is one and indivisible. It is in its current borders that I see it in the future and the renewed Union.
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 13 June 2013 16: 48 New
          Ukraine has already made its European choice, but nobody will drag it to drag Novorossia and Crimea there; it is a land saturated with the blood of Russian soldiers - our ancestors. This gift was made to an ally of Russia, and leaving the camp of a potential geopolitical enemy, Ukraine became a traitor.
        2. Apostle
          Apostle 13 June 2013 16: 52 New
          I do not agree with you, in western Ukraine there is nothing other than floods, traitors, and the “freedom” party, from an economic point of view it is not advisable.
        3. MG42
          MG42 13 June 2013 17: 01 New
          Quote: Apollon
          Again, divide Ukraine, well, then catch the minus from me.

          more logical to hear it from Svidomo Ukrainians ..
          Quote: Apollon
          It is within its current borders that I see it in the future and renewed Union.

          This is ideal .. in real life, Galicia can enter such a Union unless under strict compulsion = to send troops there and the history of the UPA will repeat itself, why such a “headache” for the future Union?
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 13 June 2013 17: 16 New
            I also think so, why the extra sacrifices on both sides. Galicia is Poland in miniature, it also hates Russians fiercely, and is located on the border through which the EU will fuel separatism. And you need to be realistic, the West will not completely give up Ukraine, and the CU, like the EU, will not feed entire Ukraine.
            1. MG42
              MG42 13 June 2013 17: 23 New
              Ternopil Oblast is also slightly inferior to hate in the rating of hatred ..
              these people at a parade in Galicia passionately want a renewed Union negative
              1. MG42
                MG42 13 June 2013 17: 45 New
                Quote: gecko
                Galicia is Poland in miniature

                Everyone probably came to terms with the loss of the Baltic states, these countries both in the EU and in nature, with the loss of Galicia will probably have to, the question in another Poland is also not particularly needed for Bandera people remember the Volyn massacre there, and even Euros were excluded from their radical European club. .
                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 13 June 2013 21: 34 New
                  The Baltic states are a minor issue, but no one will let them go completely.
              2. individual
                individual 13 June 2013 18: 55 New
                ... to be when, like in a movie I went to meet them from the pedestal tank T34.
                I recall newsreels of another parade when Soviet soldiers in gloves threw the Nazi standards to the mausoleum. And for the prisoners in Moscow there were watering machines.
                That was a PARADE!
                1. MG42
                  MG42 13 June 2013 19: 05 New
                  Quote: individ
                  So that it was when, like in a movie, a T34 tank left the pedestal to meet them.

                  Yes, the matter is not even in these warriors, but in how the local population supports them, look at how they were not even allowed to walk a few hundred meters in Sevastopol = police guarded, but here it’s the other way around, WWII veterans are being guarded from them by St. George’s ribbons on May 9 and burned trampled them, >>> support of the local population = this is a guerrilla war ..
                  2 years ago on May 9, Lviv on the buses were WWII veterans
            2. DEfindER
              DEfindER 13 June 2013 17: 46 New
              Quote: gecko
              I also think so, why the extra sacrifices on both sides. Galicia is Poland in miniature, it also hates Russians fiercely, and is located on the border through which the EU will fuel separatism.

              Now Galicia is rocking Ukraine and it will rock the whole union, as I didn’t really want to .. remember after the war Stalin did not want to join this region to the Union, because of a strong pro-Nazi orientation, but Truman seemed to persuade him .. like - "Take my friend you will regret it! "
        4. Avenger711
          Avenger711 13 June 2013 21: 28 New
          No, Galicia separately, Little Russia and New Russia separately.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 18: 57 New
      Quote: Prometheus
      The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?

      Evraz. The Union will be created as a confederation, and the internal administrative and territorial arrangement will remain the prerogative of the republican authorities.
  3. Nevsky
    Nevsky 13 June 2013 15: 48 New
    Quote: Prometheus
    The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?

    In the sense? Do you have enough free movement and a common currency? wassat

    Everything can be ... but only before a very powerful external force, or in the future, a solid support group within the countries of the Union soldier
    1. Prometheus
      Prometheus 13 June 2013 15: 58 New
      What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?
      1. Apollo
        13 June 2013 16: 16 New
        Quote: Prometheus
        What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?

        It is not so important in what form (by the way, the confederation already exists, but in a very reduced form. In the form of the CIS) this future Union will look (of course preferable to the federation), the main thing is that you need to take a step and finally move from words to deeds.
        1. Renat
          Renat 13 June 2013 16: 37 New
          The CIS abbreviation somehow completely discredited itself. The word "Union" sounds much more powerful.
          1. individual
            individual 13 June 2013 18: 44 New
            Let us recall how we felt uncomfortable when in December 1991, in Viskuli, Belovezhskaya Pushcha, a trio of villains called our country the CIS.
      2. avt
        avt 13 June 2013 17: 32 New
        Quote: Prometheus
        What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?

        And hegg knows him, no one tastes laughing So far, only an artistic whistle of each about his own and everyone does not say what he means by this. One is clear - without a single decision-making center that is binding, all this .... well, to put it mildly, the CIS named after EBN. And in the affairs of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the decision-making time by a single command, which even does not exist yet, and the reaction to fulfilling them, as well as the responsibility for not fulfilling, are also decreasing. We have already seen all this movement by the example of a union state with Belarus, now now add Kazakhstan and figure out how to organize all this with the current ambitions of the national elites of ALL the unifying states. So far, everything is according to Krylov, well, where the swan is cancer and pike, but it’s already good though, and not the swan with pike cancer.
  4. faraon
    faraon 13 June 2013 16: 02 New
    thank God it’s time to see the revealed Union. bring it together, the economy will finally work. The well-being of the people will rise. You can only rejoice
    1. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 16: 27 New
      and Israeli guest workers will be in the ECE ... well, when most of the functions will be transferred from the state level to this ECE.
      1. Black
        Black 13 June 2013 19: 52 New
        Quote: DeerIvanovich
        and Israeli guest workers will sit in the ECE

        No .... perhaps we won’t have enough time to set up so many banks.
    2. Apollo
      13 June 2013 16: 38 New
      to the thesis Eurasian Integration: Global Aspect

      citation-In the context of globalization and increased competition throughout the world there is a steady tendency to the emergence and strengthening of regional economic associations. Given the continuing crisis in the global financial and economic system, integration processes are becoming even more relevant and significant.

      There is nothing to add, it sounds like an axiom. good

      to the thesis The core of Eurasian integration

      quote-As the leadership of our country has repeatedly emphasized, Eurasian integration is Russia's strategic choice.

      I will add that Russia plays the fundamental role in all integration processes throughout the post-Soviet space, and it is it that pulls the whole heavy burden on itself.

      to the thesis Customs Union and Common Economic Space

      citation-A unified system of foreign trade tariff, non-tariff and customs regulation, a coordinated policy in the field of technical regulation, the application of sanitary, veterinary and phytosanitary measures has been formed.

      it’s ingenious, it’s through the economy, and where the economy is there and political integration, like twice two.

      to the thesis Practical results of integration

      quote-New integration formats already bring a very specific practical impact. It is expressed not only in terms of GDP growth and mutual trade, although they are significant.

      the results are obvious and therefore the benefit. and where the benefit is and the temptation to join other states that, for themselves, have not yet decided on the issue of joining the integration processes.

      to the thesis Supranational body of the Eurasian integration project

      citation-An important element contributing to the deepening of Eurasian integration is the creation of the Eurasian Economic Commission (ECE).

      it is inevitable and natural.

      to the thesis Possible expansion of the integration project

      quote-For citizens, the removal of migration, border and other barriers, the so-called “labor quotas”, will mean the ability to choose where to live, get an education, work without any restrictions. By the way, in the USSR - with its institute of registration - there was no such freedom. ”

      the end result will be just that good That is, it is the revival of our own and dear to us all the state that united all the nations then under the name of the USSR. But the process is difficult but we will overcome it.
  5. Begemot
    Begemot 13 June 2013 16: 12 New
    But why did they get into the WTO?
    1. Renat
      Renat 13 June 2013 16: 40 New
      That is right. The benefits there are far less than the losses. (If at all there is any benefit). Once the overseas owners gave the face so our puppets and slap the country.
  6. DeerIvanovich
    DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 16: 33 New
    hmm ... after such news about further expansion, I don’t feel like talking ... again we are stepping on the same rake: they gave the land to Azerbaijan:

    is it really only because instead of Gabala, Azerbaijan decided to buy tanks from us and not from the Turks?
    1. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 18: 33 New
      judging by the assessment of the statement of fact, someone does not like ...
      but it may be that this land concession is in exchange for peace in Karabakh ...
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 20: 22 New
        The transfer of various sections of border lands is a natural process. For example, during the last delimitation of the Kazakh-Russian border, a plot was transferred from Russia to Kazakhstan from Kazakhstan, where a small village was located, the inhabitants of which worked at a nearby Russian enterprise. In order not to ruin people's lives, Astana transferred the land of this village to Russia (in return they got a piece of bare steppe nearby).
        A few days ago, in one of the articles on the site, they mentioned a case in Turkic history when the future Hunny Shanuy Mode-batyr gave the enemy the best horses, his wife, but started a war when the impudent neighbors demanded a small section of the bare steppe. This case is well known to the Kazakhs, Mode-batyr is revered by us as one of the ancestors. However, there are cases when, in order to maintain real friendly relations, it is necessary to make concessions. Especially considering the fact that many sections of the border are really controversial, and the second side also has some historical right to possess them. Sometimes, using force, we unfairly took away some territory, if we recall the Russian-Chinese relations, we can recall the facts when the Russian Cossacks arbitrarily moved border pillars deep into Chinese territory, taking advantage of the fact that the then weakened Qing Empire could not oppose something pressure from world powers. It is better to divide such sites more or less fairly, realizing that there will always be dissatisfied citizens on both sides. "Disputed territory" and "ancestral lands" (for which you really need to fight to the death) are different concepts. It is better to divide the disputed territories and put an end to this action, so that in the future there are no clues for claims and wars.
        Another example of cross-border “sharing” is the Caspian Sea. Kazakhstan and Russia are producing hydrocarbons in fields located on the water line to the point of banality is simple - on the principle of 50/50. And they don’t look in whose waters the majority of the deposit is located. If I’m not mistaken, Azerbaijan and Russia are likewise conducting oil and gas production.
        But Turkmenistan and Iran with Azerbaijan still cannot solve the question with each other who is the owner of the disputed fields.
  7. vlad tankov
    vlad tankov 13 June 2013 16: 35 New
    [q in the USSR - with its institute of registration uote] [/ quote] registration has not gone anywhere. Now it is called registration
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 17: 13 New
    The world respects strength and military power in the first place ... Calls for "Peace to the world .." unilateral disarmament ... led you to know why ... Russia to rearm .. is building up its scientific and technological potential (so far with the help of (selling) our natural Alas, resources .. but this is temporary .. They began to reckon with Russia in the world .. and even get a little afraid .. The result is obvious .. And this is just the beginning .. will soon be in line to be friends with us ..
  9. UFO
    UFO 13 June 2013 17: 17 New
    The article is set - due to the last paragraph. Because I personally wouldn’t want to unite with anyone in the framework of the former USSR. They are already here without any “free movement of labor”, and are fed up with disgrace. I want them to "freely move" in the opposite direction! yes hi wink
    1. Prometheus
      Prometheus 13 June 2013 19: 14 New
      Tajiks and Uzbeks?
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 19: 46 New
      Quote: UFO
      Because I personally wouldn’t want to unite with anyone in the framework of the former USSR. They are already here without any “free movement of labor”, and are fed up with disgrace. I want them to "freely move" in the opposite direction!

      Tajiks and Uzbeks themselves would be happy to return home and have normal living conditions there. And we must help them with this. It makes no sense to simply not let them in (moreover, it is fraught with the fact that they simply go to the camp of our enemies), the Eurasian Union can and must create normal conditions there, then they will return home (but not all at once - Uzbekistan has at the moment a disproportionate number of labor resources, so that part of the Uzbeks will probably remain in the Russian Federation and the KZ, where whatever one may say, there is a shortage of workers).
      Nazarbayev has now flown to Tashkent. Recently, the meetings of these two presidents have become more frequent. A good sign, if you recall that all these years, relations between Astana and Tashkent were not cloudless. Uzbekistan is a country with great economic potential. Tajikistan - read the appendix to Uzbekistan in this regard. Kyrgyzstan - annex to Kazakhstan. By the way, the landing of Kazakhstani officials and business executives constantly flies to Kyrgyzstan with the goal of building a state management system there and creating conditions for investments.
      In a word, we will pull our neighbors. This is for our own good. In the same way, it is necessary to pull the economy of both Ukraine and the Caucasus until a normal mechanism works there. This is not a “heavy cross” and not “money down the drain”, it is money and forces invested in the future strong Eurasian Union, whose creation is positively perceived by the absolute majority of CIS residents. In short, everyone already understood - we are doing the USSR, but taking into account previous mistakes. We make some mistakes, but, you know, there is no textbook on creating an ideal state.
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher 14 June 2013 01: 32 New
        You know how to speak - when you don’t fall into "epic fantasies ... *) Plus, dear ... Uzbekistan, beyond the Eurasian Union - you won’t run away anywhere, this is a no brainer. Moreover, the sobering of our "elite" has become apparent. And Nazarbayev and Karimov, God himself ordered to negotiate ... Just like Putin and Karimov ... God forbid that they become stunning newsmakers in the near future ...
        1. hommer
          hommer 14 June 2013 08: 03 New
          You know how to speak - when you don’t fall into "epic fantasies ... *) Plus, dear ..

          Well, firstly, these are not fantasies, Marek Rozny's comments are always justified.
          Secondly, we Kazakhs cannot live without it. fellow
          The peculiarity of the mentality is this - everyone should know seven of their ancestors in a direct paternal line - Zheta Ata - all descendants of one ancestor to the seventh generation are considered close relatives. Ancient custom requires knowing seven generations of ancestors and prohibits marriages within
          So accept us as we are, we will not be others! drinks
          But seriously - integration is difficult, it seems to someone even slowly, but it does!
          And thoughtless haste here is inappropriate and even harmful, it is necessary to use this historical chance to one hundred percent.
          If it doesn’t work out, I'm afraid there will be no second chance!
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 25 New
          Quote: de_monSher
          You know how to speak - when you don’t fall into "epic fantasies" ...

          Which of us is perfect?))) Although my opinion is that the horseradish Uzbeks remain the same) Maybe somewhere in a non-epic parallel world, Uzbeks and Tajiks became famous as harsh wars, but not in this "epic" real world .
          Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks. And as managers, we are better (our strategic thinking is better developed). But the Uzbek, however, works better with his hands, easily achieving a high level of skill. And in other peaceful professions, Uzbeks will easily give odds to the steppes. There are numerous exceptions, but in general these are the characteristics of our peoples (I don’t know, maybe the mentality is completely different, or maybe just a side effect of eating horse meat on the body wink )
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 14 June 2013 22: 34 New
            Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks.

            You brag about it, Neighbor, especially when you drink ... let's not argue, this is the ultimate truth ... *)) But nevertheless, who is closest to the Uzbeks? Uighurs and Kazakhs, not even Tajiks ... = spread out his hands = ... such is our fate ... *)
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 14 June 2013 23: 03 New
              Quote: de_monSher
              Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks.

              You brag about it, Neighbor, especially when you drink ... let's not argue, this is the ultimate truth ... *)) But nevertheless, who is closest to the Uzbeks? Uighurs and Kazakhs, not even Tajiks ... = spread out his hands = ... such is our fate ... *)

              There is little bragging, but as if without it, and after zhuz grams it’s generally sacred like fishermen and hunters laughing
          2. de_monSher
            de_monSher 14 June 2013 23: 06 New
            By the way ... by the way. My so-called "family lands" (in any case, of my ancestors) were in South Kazakhstan - Turvat, Sary-Agach (Saragash, as you now call). And for my cousins, the surname ends with "-baev." Yes, and on the physiognomy - Kazakhs Kazakhs ... *) But formally and in fact, we are still Uzbeks ... mdy ... *)
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 15 June 2013 01: 00 New
              Well, yes) Kazakh is an amateur to brag about))) oh well, not without reason)))
              in general, every Kazakh remembers that Uzbeks and Kazakhs are one and the same nation, until the Uzbeks were merged with Sarts and Tajiks under the general name of Uzbek. I perceive each Uzbek with Mongoloid features as his own. and I know that he eats horsemeat, and with his fist can hit hard in the face.
              it’s just that the majority of Uzbeks now are Turkish and Sarti. I usually mean them when I say the word "Uzbek". Well, I don’t see anything related when I talk with a Caucasian Caucasian, who is now called an Uzbek. Let him even be more culturally rendered than I, all the same I don’t feel "brotherhood". A cheeky Ukrainian or a Mongol-speaking one is drilled, and he makes me feel more kinship than the Tajiks (at the same time, I normally treat them, but not like a relative people). Well, imagine - you meet a black man who speaks the Turkmen language and will tell you that he is your Turkic relative. How will you perceive it? Of course, with irony. I have nothing against Tajiks and blacks. Willingly talked and will communicate. Only as relatives I do not perceive them.
              Those Uzbeks who came from nomadic real Uzbeks (konyrats, barlas, kipchaks and others) have arisen - is another matter. These are those that the Kazakhs have always said "ozbek - oz agam."
              They simply made people wise with ethnonyms in Soviet times.
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher 15 June 2013 01: 20 New
                Those Uzbeks who have come from real nomadic Uzbeks are another matter. These are those that the Kazakhs have always said "ozbek - oz agam."

                Ex, again - it started, it started ... *) That's right, but even hidden nationalism - throw it to hell, Neighbor ... *) He will not bring to good ... My Father, in Germany, like that, General Kulikov , the deceased already now, unfortunately, considered a German ... thought he had such a surname - Iskander, not a name. Until one day, he did not find out who he was, and just the same with such surprise, did not betray - "So you, it turns out, is it Uzbek, lieutenant colonel, not German ?!" Why am I doing this. Everything here is mixed up here, mixed up and coolly mixed up - we’ll start a business, cut a prisodetsa - most likely the head and throat.

                In Novosibirsk, once, a woman alone, Russian, at the station, tried to take my Brother and Sister from my Mom - dragged her into the police station as much ... It seemed to her that my Mom had stolen them. And laughter and sin ... *) Brother and Sister went to the Father - white-skinned, brown-haired - European features. I went to Mom’s breed - more Asian features, even somewhere Semitic Arab. The border passes not along our “faces”, but through our hearts and souls ...

                That's something like this ...
              2. de_monSher
                de_monSher 15 June 2013 02: 01 New
                Marek Rozny

                Yes, and in your country in Kazakhstan, look at the diversity ... Let us take women - the northern Kazakhs, tall, handsome, white - beautiful. Somewhere closer to the Tatars even by facial features. And Southern Kazashki is a completely different type of beauty, southern. But, as a rule, short and dark. Well ... sometimes it seems like two different people, already. But just two Zhuzes - Senior and Middle ... *) I didn’t overlap with the people of the Younger Zhuz - only once, when I worked for you in the Caspian region ... you also differ ... *)

                No need to frivolously divide people ... this is not good ... absolutely not good ... *)
  10. grandfather
    grandfather 13 June 2013 17: 34 New
    I am for an alliance, and let the Ukrainians be determined either all together or nowhere, and they certainly can’t see Europe on equal terms ..
  11. individual
    individual 13 June 2013 18: 33 New
    "... so that the closest neighbors would not be artificially confronted with a difficult choice between the" western "and" eastern "vector of development, but could participate in integration processes throughout the Eurasian space."

    Artificial creation EurAsEC, CSTO, CU and CES only financial and diplomatic support By Russia. Of course, the "Customs Union" brings pluses to the economy of Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus.
    But we have to strengthen the Russian economy and neighboring countries will easily reach the sphere of Russian and joint interests.
  12. Yeraz
    Yeraz 13 June 2013 18: 45 New
    Yes, it will be interesting to see how Putin, Lukashenko, Nazarbayev share power .... the CSTO ally Tajikistan still ratifies the agreement with the Russian Federation, the Union State has been created for how many years ... but in words, how beautiful and easy it sounds. ..
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 19: 26 New
      A good example is the Swiss Confederation. There, at the helm, in turn, a representative from each canton. No one is offended. But Nazarbayev is not a proud person in this regard, he may well cede the right to the first presidential term of Russia. It will be quite reasonable. Moreover, all three of these presidents have long known each other, and have long worked together. Nazarbayev and Putin generally meet more often than once a month. And go call almost every week.
      I recalled the scene of the KVN team Astana.KZ "The presidents of Russia and Kazakhstan meet so often with each other that they no longer have topics for discussion ...".
      Lukashenko is a hot and impulsive person, therefore no-no breaks down. But very quickly he pulls himself together and further works with Russia.
      All three clearly understand where to go and do it despite the opposition of external and internal forces. And at the same time, they do not reasonably reveal all the cards for all to see. The Eurasian Union is still being issued to the West as a purely economic entity, although the citizens of the CU and the White House have already perfectly understood that this is a renewed reincarnation of the Eurasian empire.

      Z.Y. Apparently right were the ancient steppes of the 6th century, who created the Turkic Kaganate, which stretched from the Far East to the Black Sea, calling their imperial state "Eternal State". After the collapse, it was reborn into the Horde (then the foundations of the Slavic-Turkic symbiosis were laid), then after the collapse it was reborn into the Russian Empire, then into the USSR, and now comes the next form of the Eternal Empire, created in accordance with the era and political realities. As this empire was the largest in the world, it remained. Whether geography is to blame or the surprising complementarity of the mentality of the Eastern Slavs, Turks and Finno-Ugric peoples, or we were just lucky with leaders with imperial ambitions - but the fact remains: the external border of the Eurasian state has not changed for many hundreds of years, and our enemies remained the same as they were fifteen hundred years ago - the German-speaking world and the Chinese.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 13 June 2013 22: 12 New
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Eurasian Union is still being issued to the West as a purely economic entity, although the citizens of the CU and the White House have already perfectly understood that this is a renewed reincarnation of the Eurasian empire.

        And if in Russia the economic system changes and we move on to the socialist form of economy? What do you think, Marat, will the Eurasian Union stand up? Or will you also have to change the system?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 23: 35 New
          There will be no more Soviet socialism. It is clear that there will be a capitalist device. Another thing is that we must try to have the best features of the socialist system. Much needs to be taken from China and the Scandinavian countries. But communist ideology in its pure form has exhausted itself as an economic system and, accordingly, as an ideology. This is just another phase of humanity, like feudalism in its time. Socialism has helped capitalism gain more “human” features. Compare what the capitalist world of the beginning of the 20th century was and what it has become now. The difference is gigantic. Especially when you compare the life of the American / English worker of that time and the life of the current Norwegian or German worker.
          What is the main goal of the state in relation to its own citizen? In order for a citizen to be full, shod, developed, have a rich leisure and feel safe. At the moment, Western Europe and the cap.countries of Asia can offer us the best model. This should be guided. There are no other good examples of socio-economic development.
          In general, even if we assume that the Russian Federation will go on the rails of the Soviet-style social economy, Kazakhstan can calmly continue to develop according to the capitalist model (or vice versa). There is a good example of such a symbiosis - China and Hong Kong - one country, two economic models.
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 14 June 2013 08: 44 New
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There will be no more Soviet socialism. It is clear that there will be a capitalist device.

            Thanks for the answer. I understand you.
            1. dmb
              dmb 14 June 2013 11: 19 New
              Sorry to interfere in the dialogue. But this can be argued. Why do you compare the situation of workers at the beginning of the last century of one country with the situation of workers at the beginning of the next century of another? Apparently because it’s so convenient, it fits your own theory. Then let's compare the position of the native Swedes and Arab Swedes or Sudanese. The fact that it has been shown differently by recent unrest in this well-fed, prosperous country. Do you seriously (like some underdeveloped fellow citizens) think that the basis of indignation lies exclusively on a national or religious plane. Something I did not see among the rioting Arab sheikhs. You quite rightly noted that it was socialism that prompted the capitalists to improve the situation of producers. The bourgeoisie really understood, if they don’t do this, lose everything. Now there is no one to compare. And therefore, social programs are curtailed almost all over the world. No one has proved that Marx’s words that for the sake of profit the capitalist will commit any crime, utopia. Moreover, in our dear Fatherland, we are convinced of this every day. Yes, and I remember in your not so long ago was the "oil" butch. Well, sort of sorted it out with Sweden, now China. Of course, his model is more attractive, although less clear. But you cannot call it socially oriented, because most of the Chinese people live in poverty. In my opinion, in China now the period is partly similar to our NEP and industrialization, and a bunch of Chinese billionaires can manage their fortune as much as the ruling party allows them. And in fact, what did you not like (based on the list you provided) Soviet socialism of the pre-Gorbachev period. Yes, there wasn’t much abundance, but there weren’t too hungry, they dressed better in this period than in China, I generally said nothing about security, and you too. It’s really a misfortune with leisure, more and more books were read, not porn magazines, they played football. And not roulette, it was really bad with Kirkorov and Comedy Club. The format of the comment does not allow a lot of arguments. I will dwell only on one. Did pragmatic capitalists spend enormous resources for many years, endangering their existence, for the sake of destroying a system that would have collapsed because of its non-viability, there is simply nothing to do.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 17 New
                DMB, in general, agree.
                Maybe I was wrong comparing the English / American simple workman of the early 20th century with today's Germans or Scandinavians. Then let's compare their situation with current English / American workers. The picture after replacing the Germans / Scandinavians has not changed much. We can’t say that the British / American proletarians live in poverty and hunger (if we do not mean any migrant workers from neighboring countries). I cited the example of the Germans / Scandinavians - as the most successful model of the capitalist system with a "socialist face". We will not argue with the fact that the Norwegian worker lives better than his colleague in the Soviet Union.
                Soviet socialism is not bad, but Swedish "socialism" looks preferable.
                Marx, of course, was right about the greed of the capitalist. Therefore, a socially-oriented capitalist state must pursue a policy of containing the base impulses of the "bourgeois". The same Nazarbayev is constantly hammering Kazakhstani businessmen on the topic of their "social responsibility" so that they are not forgotten especially. Therefore, for several years now they have been trying to create a class of "socially-oriented" entrepreneurs in our country.
                Soviet socialism had a significant minus - a person with ambitions could not achieve high material well-being. Fixed income kills a person’s desire to do something beyond their responsibilities. Yes, the state reward system is good, but it is half-measures to stimulate private initiative. Pure leveling is not gut. And the enterprises were not interested in the development of their marketable products, because "they will buy it anyway." As a result, after 1991, consumer goods of Soviet factories instantly became uninteresting to our citizens when a foreign product appeared (albeit not always of high quality, but definitely more convenient and beautiful).
                We have a unique experience of living in a social country. Now we are familiar with the charms and "charms" of the cap system. The task of the state to combine both systems in the most successful way. In Kazakhstan, for example, experiments are constantly underway (though the population does not quite understand their essence and considers this a sign of the idiocy of the authorities) - they create and disband SECs (social-entrepreneurial corporations), form relations with business within the framework of a “public-private partnership”, created a giant state corporation Samruk-Kazyna,
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 18 New
                  , which holds in its hands the lion's share of the economy (by the way, the full name of Samruk-Kazyna National Welfare Fund JSC, formerly the Sustainable Development Fund), conduct public IPOs (they force ordinary citizens to buy shares of Kazakhstani enterprises so that everyone can feel themselves, the recipient of a share of national income), they constantly really hamper big business about the need to "share" with society, etc. So far, it’s hard to call all these actions successful, but it’s obvious that the government is looking for options for “socialist capitalism.” In the end, Nazarbayev and most of the political establishment have left the "socialist" overcoat. By the way, Nazarbayev is a serious critic of the current world capitalist system, openly criticizes the defects of the existing financial world in international stands (and the name was even invented - "defective"). Simple Kazakh people do not cut into the essence of his thoughts, and he thinks “the old man is strange.” And he says real things. True, realizing that Kazakh dancing these theories deep in the drum, he voices them from the world stands. He says simply to the people (the former metallurgist): “First, the economy, then politics,” before the onset of the crisis, he openly warns of the need to tighten his belts, and as a whole makes it clear that we will live humanly if we act according to the plan until 2030 (now until 2050). Previously, people laughed, but now most Kazakhstanis have become convinced of the efficiency of state development schemes and still believe that next year they will live better than this, because this year we live better than in the past.
                  As for entertainment, look again at KZ - we don’t have toilet humor on TV and gays on stage. And children's sports are developing now. And in general, increased attention is paid to sports. I think at the last Olympics, you noticed how the Kazakhs made a splash when they rose above Russia, Germany, Britain in the final table and in the first days they took exclusively gold. Only at the end of the Olympics, Russia and Europe still overtook the “upstart”)))) But we were pretty bad at nerves, judging by the foreign press))))
                  School education is also trying to pull to a high level. At international competitions, it is already commonplace when Kazakhs tear to shreds of Western European peers. Here with higher education we have a completely hopeless situation. But again, they are trying to do something. Not so long ago, the Nazarbayev-University complex was opened, there teachers from Moscow State University, Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard work there. The only educational complex in the KZ created according to all the templates of recognized international educational centers. Let's see what happens.
                  Well, with regard to security, we are still much calmer than in Russia. There is practically no crime on the streets at all (in clubs, young people are fighting when drunk, but without it, nowhere). The main types of crime are traffic accidents and corruption. Provocations on the part of foreign "well-wishers" and fugitive oligarchs (Zhanaozen, homegrown terrorists) were quickly repaid. Rigidly, with blood, but quickly and without giving the possibility of relapse. Both the domestic work was carried out, and the external threats were weakened as much as possible, including the fact that we tightened our “Birch” ones abroad. While Russian oligarchs in Britain are granted refugee status, Kazakh runaway oligarchs (impersonating “political opposition”) in Britain (and the rest of Europe) were officially declared criminals by local law enforcement officers and they all received an absentee sentence of imprisonment. Here's how to work with the "external opposition"))))
                  1. dmb
                    dmb 14 June 2013 12: 57 New
                    It's nice to deal with an opponent who sets out his position without shouting about, but let's move on from compliments to the point. I think that it is very easy for Nazarbayev to criticize the world capitalist system, we can do this. Although it’s more difficult for you, because you don’t see an alternative to it. But with socialism is more complicated. You have given only one counterargument-leveling, as a result of the lack of initiative. However, do not forget (since we have already begun to compare) that the egalitarianism of the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. as they say in Odessa, two big differences. Socialist society did not stand still, it continued to develop. And it went along a completely uncharted path. Well, there was no historical experience, and therefore errors are quite possible. Of course, during the construction of a new socialism, these errors will be taken into account. And the fact that ultimately socialism, as a social system, will replace capitalism, I personally have no doubt. Otherwise, it will be necessary to recognize that capitalism is the final stage of the existence of human society, after which kirdyk will come to it. For the "guest workers" from neighboring countries are not at all satisfied that they receive less for their labor than the indigenous ones. And it doesn’t matter whether it is America, Russia, Kazakhstan or Sweden.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 14: 06 New
                      The egalitarianism of the Khrushchev and Brezhnev samples have their own characteristics, but in essence they remain a form of the same phenomenon.
                      Regarding what is the next form of development, if we proceed from the logic that capitalism of the beginning of the 20th century is an “advanced” version of feudalism, then why not assume that the next form of society is “socialist capitalism” / "capitalism with a socialist face"? And "socialism" itself is a side branch of the general system, which is most likely a dead end. The very emergence of socialism is a "twisted branch effect." When capitalism reached the most ugly form of its existence, a socialist movement arose (as a protest). Communist ideals are a utopian maximum idea. As a result, as we know, the cap system began to absorb various social elements in its device so as not to self-destruct. The socialist system - it was a good kick to the, ammonia for sobering up. As a result, despite its basic vices, capitalism has become much more humane in relation to the working class.
                      But the point is not even theories. The point is in practice. Each state of the capital of the world conducts its social policy and state regulation of the economy. What is wrong with the capital system if the state creates normal living conditions for ordinary citizens?
                      I am more frightened in the capital system by wastefulness in relation to natural resources. The sale of goods with a specific (short) service life threatens, as you understand, in the end a complete train for future generations. In this regard, the USSR with its cast-iron pans looks a little more humane to nature.
                      1. dmb
                        dmb 14 June 2013 22: 13 New
                        Do not you think that you are contradicting yourself. If the result of development is an ugly form, then it is unlikely to be attractive to most of the Society. Another question is the possibility of a smooth change of some economic relations by others. I would really like it without shocks, but this is just utopian. Well, the capitalist will not refuse (as you and Marx rightly say) the profit, but he will refuse, they will devour him. not workers and all kinds of socialists, but their own rival bourgeois brothers. Therefore, he will waste the resources of the planet and produce all kinds of g ... and will beastly resisted to any of its regulation, including state regulation. For such is the nature of capitalism. If it were different, Roma Abramovich would have settled on the first billion, which more than covers all normal human needs. Unless of course we are talking about the needs of cattle, which Roma is. I repeat, but apart from the unfounded allegations that communism is a utopian idea, I do not observe any serious arguments for confirming this thesis. Even you, a person who thinks.
              2. The comment was deleted.
  13. Semurg
    Semurg 13 June 2013 19: 49 New
    Breaking down does not build, what was broken easily and quickly is now trying to recover hard and for a long time. And for the good, as in a toast so that our desires coincide with our capabilities.
  14. Black
    Black 13 June 2013 20: 01 New
    Quote: Apollon
    the end result will be just this good That is, the revival of our native and dear to all of us state that united all peoples then under the name of the USSR. It’s a difficult process, but we will overcome it

    Only a seriously ill patient may not wish for it. The creation of the Union of Eurasian States would end the protracted systemic crisis in the post-Soviet space that arose during the collapse of the USSR. This would be the beginning of a global world order in the XNUMXst century, just as the USSR played this role in the XNUMXst century.

    The question is whether the elite, which even without integration draws full measure to take steps on the path of this "difficult but surmountable path"?
  15. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 13 June 2013 20: 11 New
    Of course, the integration processes that occur between the countries of the Customs Union stimulate the development of the economies of these countries. Bureaucratic barriers are being removed. The successes of the Customs Union show the correctness of the chosen path.
  16. Skifo
    Skifo 13 June 2013 20: 25 New
    The West will not allow you to create something really useful while you have to reckon with it ...
  17. Abakanets
    Abakanets 13 June 2013 21: 08 New
    The Eurasian Union is not needed, too many parasites will rush into it.
  18. andrejwz
    andrejwz 14 June 2013 06: 20 New
    Dzyarzhaunaya mova sustraraketsstsa only at the names of the towns

    I can be blamed for Great Russian chauvinism, but damn it, I don’t want this little grouchy Belarusian dialect to disappear.