Military Review

Eurasian integration: current situation and prospects

Eurasian Integration: Global Aspect

In the global historical context, economic integration in the Eurasian space is a logical and logical process. In the context of globalization and increasing competition around the world, there is a steady trend towards the emergence and strengthening of regional economic associations. In view of the continuing crisis phenomena in the global financial and economic system, the integration processes become even more relevant and significant. United States united by common interests and tasks more successfully operate in the global economy, gaining real competitive advantages.

The states-participants of the Commonwealth of Independent States are also following the path of building up multilateral cooperation. Today, in accordance with the principle of multi-level and different-speed integration in the CIS space, various
integration formats: the Eurasian Economic Community (EurAsEC), the Organization of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), the Customs Union (CU), the Common Economic Space (CES). They seamlessly complement each other, creating a broad partnership platform.

At the same time, the interests of our citizens, the task of maintaining and strengthening traditional ties between countries are put at the forefront. The objective advantage of our association is the linguistic community, similar ideological and life standards, well-established production models of interaction.

The core of Eurasian integration

As the leadership of our country has repeatedly stressed, Eurasian integration is the strategic choice of Russia. At the same time, the development of cooperation within the most complex and deep integration formats - the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan - is of particular importance. It is these three countries that became the core of Eurasian integration.

The guidelines for the future work of Moscow, Astana and Minsk are set forth in the Declaration on Eurasian Economic Integration adopted at the Summit of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council 18 in November 2011.

The course towards further development and deepening of the Eurasian integration processes was confirmed during the regular meeting of the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council at the level of heads of state during the December 19 held in Moscow 2012.

Customs Union and Common Economic Space

Currently, all the main activities have been carried out to create and ensure the functioning of the Customs Union. A unified regulatory system has been established in many key economic areas. A unified system of foreign trade tariff, non-tariff and customs regulation, conducting a coordinated policy in the field of technical regulation, the application of sanitary, veterinary and phytosanitary measures has been formed.

From 1 July 2011, the customs, sanitary, veterinary, quarantine phytosanitary, and transport state control was transferred from the Russian-Belarusian and Russian-Kazakh border to the external border of the Customs Union.
Fully formed a single Customs territory of the Customs Union with the free movement of goods within it and a single approach to all goods. Eliminating administrative barriers greatly facilitates business operations not only for national operators of the three countries, but also for foreign businesses.

Work is proceeding systematically to create the Common Economic Space of the Troika. Since January 1, the 2012 package came into force on the basis of the 17 agreements that form the contractual and legal framework of the SES. In the development of this base package before 2015, it is envisaged to adopt more
fifty international regulatory documents, as well as make the necessary changes to the national legislation of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

By creating a Customs Union, the parties ensured the freedom of movement of goods. Introducing the package of international agreements of the SES, they also provided the prerequisites for the free movement of services, capital and labor resources. In the long term - an exit on realization of the coordinated monetary and macroeconomic policy.

Practical results of integration

New integration formats already bring quite concrete practical returns. It is expressed not only in figures of growth in GDP and mutual trade, although they are significant. For example, in the first six months since the beginning of the full-scale operation of the CU in July 2011, the volume of mutual trade of the States members of the Customs Union has grown
almost 40%, January-September 2012 g. - 10%. On the whole, for the CU / CES states, the increase in 2012 produced in January-September was 4% compared to the same
2011 period of the year, incl. Russia's GDP - by 3,8%, Belarus - by 2,5%, Kazakhstan - 5,2%.

Along with this, the direct result of the functioning of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space was the improvement of the overall investment climate in the CU and CES countries, providing more comfortable business conditions, including small and medium business, and the creation of new jobs. According to current statistics, the number of unemployed registered in employment agencies at the beginning of October 2012 in the whole countries of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space was lower than the 2011 of the year by 19,6% (in Belarus the decline was 12,8%, Russia - 19,1 %, Kazakhstan - 30,5%).

Supranational body of the Eurasian integration project

An important element contributing to the deepening of Eurasian integration is the creation of the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC). The Commission, which began work on 1 in February 2012, is a single permanent regulatory body of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. In accordance with the agreements on the SES, as well as the Treaty on the Eurasian Economic Commission, a number of functions and powers have been transferred to the supranational level of the EEC. The Commission took over the issues of customs tariff and technical regulation, the establishment of trade regimes in relation to third countries, competitive, macroeconomic and energy policy, a number of other positions.

It is fundamentally important that the decision-making mechanism within the framework of the ECE excludes the dominance of any member state of the Customs Union. Its governing body, the College, consists of three representatives from each of the troika states. The Commission becomes a key structure in the Eurasian space. Gradually, the CU and SES states will transfer more and more new powers to it.

Possible expansion of the integration project

The Russian side regards Eurasian economic integration as an unconditional priority of its work in the CIS space. The promotion of integration processes within the framework of the “troika” does not mean a desire to distance itself from other countries. On the contrary
From the very beginning, the Eurasian project was conceived as a structure open to other states, primarily members of EurAsEC and CIS members. At the same time, it is important that countries that have expressed a desire to join the Eurasian integration project not only share its goals and principles, but also really be ready for their implementation.

The countries of the CU and the SES are striving to further strengthen comprehensive mutually beneficial and equal cooperation with other countries and international integration associations, with a way to create a common economic space. We are sincere
they are interested in that the nearest neighbors would not be placed artificially before a difficult choice between the “western” and “eastern” vector of development, but could participate in the integration processes throughout the Eurasian space.

For citizens, the removal of migration, border and other barriers, the so-called “labor quotas”, will mean the possibility to choose where to live, get an education, work without any restrictions. By the way, in the USSR, with its institute of registration, there was no such freedom. ”

All this does not mean the restoration of the former USSR. This is impossible due to objective circumstances, and this is not necessary. This will be a qualitatively different, equitable unification of states, based primarily on a common economic interest. The policy in this case will objectively adjust to these interests. No doubt, with time, other CIS countries will be able to enter into such a union.
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  1. tarks
    tarks 13 June 2013 15: 36
    urgently need to popularize the Russian language!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 17: 06
      Kazakhs and Belarusians do not speak Russian well?
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 13 June 2013 17: 18
        No, people who have successfully passed the EG do not speak Russian well!

        "will mean the opportunity, without any restrictions, to choose where to live, get an education, work. By the way, in the USSR - with its registration institute - there was no such freedom"
        I would like to advise the author to go to find a job in Ingushetia or Uzbekistan. So, throw a Moscow apartment and wave to Ichkeria, check how it is there, is it easier to find a job than in the USSR or more difficult?
      2. Ataman
        Ataman 13 June 2013 17: 34
        Belarusians use Russian in everyday life and in official documents. Newspapers and television, having tried to switch to MOV in the 90s, have now amicably returned to the great and mighty. Dzyarzhaunaya mova sustrakaetstsa only at the names of vulits. Recently, travel cards began to be printed in Russian, because many do not know what a "lip" is in a month.
        Kazakhs in everyday life and in official documents can use both Russian and Kazakh. In documents, they often use Russian, because Kazakh has no specific terms. Russian is spoken purely without an accent. In shops, airports, train stations with the Russian language there is not the slightest problem.
        Respectfully, to Belarusians and Kazakhs, Ataman hi
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 18: 50
          Ataman, that's right. In Kazakhstan, people are fluent in the Russian language, and many ethnic Kazakhs can also give odds to ethnic Russians in Russia in terms of knowledge of this language.
          The only thing I would like to correct is that there is a terminological base of the Kazakh language, it is just that many people are more accustomed to using words of Russian origin (or, more precisely, words that came from the Russian language). "Presentation" - "betashar", "umbrella" - "kolshatyr", but Kazakh equivalents are used more often only in official or business speech, and in everyday life - a large number of Russian words. You can call them parasitic words, you can call it linguistic interference, but in any case, this clearly shows how widespread the Russian language is in Kazakhstan.
          Anecdote on this topic:
          Two Kazakhs on business have arrived in Moscow; they are coming from the airport by taxi. One Kazakh addresses a friend:
          - Serik, punishment, driver of horns, terrible eken ...
          The taxi driver turns around and asks offendedly:
          “Guys, why don't you like my face?”
          - Oybay, how do you know the Kazakh language ???

          For the sake of justice, it should be noted that the speech of Russian Kazakhs also underwent a certain "Kazakhization" taking into account local realities. A Russian Kazakhstani (even who absolutely does not know the Kazakh language) uses words and phrases in everyday speech: "salam", "agashka", "arak", "tateshka", "aksha", "beshbarmachit", "bastyk", "baursak" , "kutty bolsyn", etc.
          As for the accent, the Kazakhs have it. Usually for those who rarely use Russian. In sound, this accent is quite similar to the Volga-Tatar one. However, even those who speak only Russian exclusively constantly have pronunciation peculiarities. This is manifested in some words, where there are sounds (usually "k", "e", "ch", "s", etc.), which Kazakhs automatically pronounce according to the specific rules of Kazakh speech. So the word "orbit" can sound from the lips of the Russian-speaking Kazakh as "Orbit", "of course" - "Kaneshna", etc. And the funniest thing is that even Russians who do not know the Kazakh language subconsciously learned the peculiarities of the Kazakh pronunciation and speak Russian with these Kazakh nuances. However, Russia also has regional dialects.
          ZY This small linguistic excursion is given simply to remind that our peoples have been close for a long time, our languages ​​have been constantly influencing each other for almost fifteen hundred years. Sometimes Russian speech reminds a Turkic-speaking person the same anecdote that I told above, only exactly the opposite. "AT feather grass steppe grazing herd of horses. On mound standing tent of the Cossack guard. Two Cossack examined the horizon beyond which was visible scarlet border the sun. Ataman took out pockets pockets and held out comrade. He sat on cartcovered felt, stripped off sash и papahuthrew them on a nightmare Near whip и dagger, and lit a cigarette. ”In this passage, I highlighted the words that got into the Russian language from the Turkic.
          Language is the best evidence of who is friends with whom, shares bread, works, and who sits with whom in one trench. And the formation of the Eurasian Union is a natural process that has not actually been interrupted for more than a thousand years, taking different political forms in different eras.
          1. zart_arn
            zart_arn 13 June 2013 19: 47
            He served with the guys from Kazakhstan, three Kazakhs, a Ukrainian, a German, two Russians, a Kurd. Of these, only one Kazakh from southern Kazakhstan is Russian — not a nonsense, the rest are all really Russian (literary) even better than the native Russians spoke.
            1. Andrey KZ
              Andrey KZ 13 June 2013 20: 04
              In southern Kazakhstan, only the residents of the most remote villages are poorly spoken. The rest are at least a solid four! I remember our president once spoke out on this subject - knowledge of the Russian language is a competitive advantage for Kazakhstanis.
          2. Black
            Black 13 June 2013 19: 50
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            In this passage, I highlighted the words that fell into the Russian language from the Turkic.
            Language is the best evidence of who is friends with whom, shares bread, works, and who sits with whom in one trench.

            Very accurate and beautifully said !!!!

            By language. A Russian grandmother, a Cossack woman, could not understand at all without a "interpreter"!
          3. hrych
            hrych 14 June 2013 09: 42
            The feathery steppe, horse, scarlet, cart and the most important merchant word comrade has nothing to do with the Turkic language. If the Türkic has the word "alasha", then before the word horse, as before the moon, the letters "l" and "sh" coincide, but the absence of "d", and even an accented one, after which a whole soft sign is put, can only say about the possible the origin of the Turkic word from Russian. For in word formation there is a loss of sounds, especially the latter, but not vice versa. In the Persian language, which is undoubtedly Iranian-Aryan, the word ALA denotes reddish and, in general, this word denoting a scarlet color is considered to be of Nostratic (pre-Indo-European) origin. The only Nostratic - literary (having an ancient written language) languages ​​include only the Elamite and Etruscan languages, and then there was no trace of the Turks. I do not accuse you of anything, but the truth is dearer.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 11: 20
              Hrych, feather grass - not from the Slavic root to hobble or forge, but from the Türkic root "kavla" ("to lose, shed skin, leaves"), "kovalik" - "reed".
              The word "steppe" is more and more difficult. Most likely, this word came into Russian from the Alanian nomads "(s) ter" from "t᾽æрæn" - "flat, even, lowland". If this assumption is correct (all other variants of etymology are very weak), then the circle again closes on the Türks, since the Alan "tepen" comes from the Türkic "taban" - "flat" / "sole".
              Scarlet - well, that one is easier. The root of this word "al" came from the language of the Turkic nomads. This word and now in all Turkic languages ​​means "light pink, light red". It is possible that the word is pre-Indo-European, but there it has a meaning associated with fire. And most importantly, this root is not found in European languages, but only in Asian and Middle Eastern languages. The word "al" in its pure Turkic form got into the Russian language at the time of the Horde. Later the "scarlet" form appeared. By the way, the name of the Tatar singer Alsou literally translates as "Rose water".
              The cart - from the ancient Altai word "tele" ("to transport"). The Türks even had a whole people called "tele" (literally "carts"). Their descendants are modern Altai Teleuts. The word in the Turkic language was replaced by "arba", but the Mongols (also the people of the Altai language group) have retained the verb "tele" ("to transport") to this day. "Telegen" - "carriage". "Kolymaha" - by the way, is also Turkism. Slavic words - "cart", "cart", "sleigh".
              The comrade is literally "business partner" in Turkic. "Product" + "shy". "Tauar" / "tavar" in all Turkic languages ​​means "goods". In ancient times it meant "cattle" (meaning "property"). The ending "shy", "chy" in the Turkic language means belonging to a profession, for example, "temir" - "iron", "temirshy / temirchi" - "blacksmith". Literally "tavarshy" / "tauarshy" - "the one who deals with goods."
              In Russian, the word "comrade" / "comrades" had, as you know, exclusively business content;) "Business partner".
              There is a word "alasha" in Turkic. But the "horse" originated from the Türkism "alasha at" ("piebald horse"). Almost all of the Turks' horses were piebald. And the phrase "alasha at" ultimately meant any horse (some Turkic / Mongolian peoples had the meaning "gelding"). It is likely that "alasha at" was the first to be adopted by the Finno-Ugric peoples in the meaning of any horse. And from there the word got into the Russian language, and not directly from the Turkic language. The Finno-Ugric peoples retain this word to this day. The Slavic word is "horse".
              1. hrych
                hrych 14 June 2013 12: 50
                Colleague, the word commodity, not as a designation for livestock, but for its intended purpose, is used by the Czechs - tovóra, the Slovenes - tóvor, and the Serbo-Croats - the commodity. The word for its intended purpose is mentioned in the teachings of Vlodimir Monomakh. If the Russians can be suspected of borrowing, then there are no Czechs who, if only Germanized and the steppe dwellers have seen in the pictures. By the way, the goods of the Germans are Ware, in general, one-root with a turning root, a "var" root. Accordingly, this word of Slavic origin is unambiguous. It is not a fact that the Turks have it from the Slavs, but rather came from the Indo-European language, which is the proto-language of the Slavs, but had a strong influence on the Finno-Ugric and Altai and other groups. Türkic professional endings -shi and -chi are good, but in our word there is an explicit "seek", a verb with an explicit meaning. Yes, and an explicit "i", a clear "u" (not "h" and not "w", and absolutely not "s"). You can pronounce Tovar-ischi, but the verb "search" comes out even more clearly. Another feature in the Russian word "horse" is its feminine gender and in the singular it means exclusively a mare, and for a horse the masculine gender is already prepared, which again speaks of doubtfulness some kind of borrowing. If it is necessary to add additional color characteristics to the mare, to lose the initial "a", but in the horse itself, the second letter with "a" is not interchangeable and "lashad" will sound just wild to us. The version is beautiful, but I'm afraid it is untenable, especially the long journey through the Finno-Ugrians, who have not become famous in horse breeding. Here, of course, in terms of languages, more than one spear was broken and, within the framework of the reviews, the problem probably cannot be solved, but for this I suggest you agree that all languages ​​originated from one and naturally many words are similar independently of each other.
                Regards, Colleague.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 13: 31
                  "... The Czech researcher J. Peisker (1905) was the first to pay serious attention to the long-standing ties of the Slavic languages ​​with the Turkic languages. ... The Turkic language influences on the Slavs cover a very wide period and the later a lot in both South Slavic and East Slavic languages. the presence of words of Turkic origin in Western Slavic languages ​​is very revealing. True, Turkisms could penetrate into Polish through Ukrainian, and into Slovak and Czech through Hungarian..."
                  I will add that the Turkisms could also spread at a time when the Turks settled in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania ("Polish-Lithuanian Tatars") or under the influence of the "Ottoman heyday", when a huge number of Turkish words entered the Slavic languages ​​of Central Europe. Plus, indeed, the Hungarian influence, in which there is simply a gigantic mass of Turkic words (let me remind you that the Finno-Ugric-speaking Magyars consider themselves descendants of the Turks).
                  Regarding the ending -chy, _schy. These are all regional dialects. The ending can be pronounced as -chi, -chi. Let me remind you that the undoubted Türkisms denoting the type of activity - the ARCHITECT, the treasurer, the weaver (the Türkic "tokuchy / tokushy" - and I will draw your attention to the fact that the vowel sounds "o" and "u" in this word are practically swallowed in colloquial speech among the Türks, especially ") and I can even remember Kaschey (Koshchi, koshshi - literally" nomad "in Turkic).
                  If the word "comrade" had a verbal root "search / seek", then the word would most likely be transformed into a product seeker or even into some kind of product search. Well, or just a Russian word would have the usual ending -nik (commodity) or just “commodity”.
                  The phrase "alasha at" is pronounced only as "alashat", because double vowels are usually swallowed into one sound by the Türks (long vowels are characteristic of a few Türks, for example, the Kyrgyz). And given the unstressed first sound "a" in the word "alashat", the transformation into "lashat" in the language of other peoples is quite natural. Moreover, as I mentioned, this word most likely did not come directly from the Türkic, but after steaming a little more in the Finno-Ugric cauldron, whose linguistic features, unfortunately, I do not know.
                  The Finno-Ugrians totally adopted the "horse" lexicon from the Türks for obvious reasons. And after these peoples joined the Russian nation, many words from their language (including toponyms and hydronyms, essno) entered the Russian language.
                  Regarding the fact that this is a Russian word, based on the fact that there are separate words for distinguishing sex, then you won’t say why there is a hen, but there is a rooster, but there is no “special” common word in the singular? Hare-hare, what is the "general" word here?
                  And so that there is no feeling that only Türkic words fell into the East Slavic languages, I will give the opposite examples. The Kazakh word "sirinke" ("matches") originated from the Ukrainian "sernik". Or, for example, the word "zhurmeңke" comes from the Russian word "fair" (which in turn comes from Jahrmarkt, brought by German colonists).
                  There are funny cases when a word passed from language to language, and then back again. For example, the word "prison" came into Russian from Turkic, and then returned back to the times of the Russian Empire, when the Turks had already forgotten it and used another word "zindan", and became the word "tүrme" in the modern Kazakh language.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 14 June 2013 14: 14
                    That if a researcher found Turkic words in the west, where there was never a Turkic presence, one should not fantasize about a long march of words from Ukrainians to Poles, from Hungarians to Slovaks and further, it smacks of pan-Turkic propaganda. In such cases, discarding ideological clichés, we can sooner conclude that this word got to the Türks from there, or rather from the neighbors who have been using these words since ancient times and have come into contact with the Türks, or the words are from common proto-languages. The Magyars and Finno-Ugrians are for that, that their language is not given in such a way. Once again, you are looking for a difficult and long way around the horse, when it simply does not make sense, especially the adjustment to the similarity of the word with the addition of a separate word denoting piebald color. Well, you have to understand that this is far-fetched. And excuse me to say that all the horses of the Great Steppe were piebald, well, just not serious. Everything is much simpler - there is contact - there is interpenetration of words, there is no contact, there is no word. When the Germans of the never-before-seen steppe inhabitants use the word Hauptman, the Poles - hetman, Russians - atoman, even the Anglo-Saxons call the hedman, one should not look far in the east and pull by the ears to the Turkic ata (grandfather), especially where this word is not used at all. It is clear that the Russian chieftain has lost the first letter "g" and it is necessary to look for a grayer, and this is the hetman. And in the Crimea it was the name of Christians, and for amazing reasons they were also Goths by origin.
              2. hrych
                hrych 14 June 2013 13: 24
                If we look west, and not east, we find the Frankish word -coach, which is very consonant with the cart and naturally marks the wagon. So remembered.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 13: 48
                  I do not know the etymology of the word "stagecoach", but the French verb "heap", from which the Russian "coachman" and the English "coach" came from, has a Turkic (probably from Hungarian) origin.

                  I looked at the "stagecoach" in Google:
                  1) Stagecoaches (from French carosse de diligence, “agile crew”) ...
                  2) The word diligence itself: - mid-14c., From Old French diligence "attention, care; haste, speed," from latin diligentia "attentiveness, carefulness," from diligentem (nominative diligens) "attentive, assiduous, careful".
                  Thus, the stagecoach is literally "agile" (in French) and "attentive, caring" (in Latin) and initially did not in any way belong to the concept of "carriage". The carriage is "carosse".
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        2. starshina78
          starshina78 13 June 2013 21: 15
          If one of the youths does not know, then the Russian language was a compulsory subject in all schools of the USSR, and therefore those who graduated from high school in the USSR, despite their nationality, speak Russian. Now, young people do not know the Russian language, because they have stopped teaching it in schools, where because of small-town ambitions, where because of hostility towards Russia, Russians, schools teaching in Russian are being eliminated or funded on a residual basis. Just to show their independence (Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic countries, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan).
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 21: 39
            In Kazakhstan, Russian along with Kazakh and English is taught from kindergarten. The state conducts a policy so that every citizen of Kazakhstan is fluent in the three mentioned languages, so that we have, as Andrei.KZ has already reminded, a "competitive advantage" on a global professional scale. Now Kazakhs are usually bilingual, Russian Kazakhs are usually monolingual, and the younger generation is taught to be polyglots in order to draw knowledge from the Russian-speaking world and the English-speaking, and at the same time remain Kazakhs.
    2. Mrtermit
      Mrtermit 13 June 2013 18: 46
      You are right) And preferably in Europe and Asia) For we will go there) I think that's what Euroses is of course good, but, Hugged brothers talked rallied to fight, And what will it be? And on what to make money? Here, even if in terms of natural resources, we give almost everyone at the same price, but why not shine like with Europe? There is a region there there is all its production, the euro has come, everything has been closed because the Belgian miners mine it cheaper than in France, so don't be angry with the French ... that is what my fears about Eurasian are.

      No, of course we can sell high-tech equipment, develop several powerful clusters that fundamentally change the minds of many users, such as the petrochemical industry, and collect profits from this, and simultaneously build up the economic, scientific, technological climate in the country, and smoothly push it towards a constant and stable development, create a fund from which many, not special nano-shoes, or nano-rails there will be financed, but real brilliant developments, further a journey to Mars, to find that very unearthly element there that will allow you to forget about hydrocarbons as fuel. and start deliver the raw materials to the whole world, arrange flights, create a large station there, to extract these materials, you need to raise everything shortly, and you need a goal At least where to strive and what to work for) Because you will not go far to bring up children, you wound the astronauts everyone wanted to go, then the firemen, and now to the deputies) Damn, well, you need to correct plyat situation)

      Reading from Tatarstan)
      please forgive me, but I’m in a hurry, and I’ll be late, so I’ll be glad if you continue my thought, and still tell me a little or at least direct me to the correct flow of information, otherwise I don’t see further prospects and goals for the united brothers ...
    3. kvodrato
      kvodrato 14 June 2013 17: 38
      In 2015, the Eurasian Union will be created.
  2. Prometheus
    Prometheus 13 June 2013 15: 36
    The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?
    1. Apostle
      Apostle 13 June 2013 15: 50
      By uniting Russia, eastern Ukraine and Belarus, creating a single currency, army and idea, we would get a strong, self-sufficient state ... sorry if not for the topic, just about sore .. crying
      1. Apollo
        13 June 2013 16: 13
        Quote: Apostle
        By uniting Russia,eastern Ukraine and Belarus, creating a single currency, army and idea, we would get a strong, self-sufficient state ... sorry if not the topic, just about sore ..

        Again we divide Ukraine, well then catch the minus from me. Ukraine is one and indivisible. It is in its current borders that I see it in the future and the renewed Union.
        1. Gecko
          Gecko 13 June 2013 16: 48
          Ukraine has already made its European choice, but nobody will drag it to drag Novorossia and Crimea there; it is a land saturated with the blood of Russian soldiers - our ancestors. This gift was made to an ally of Russia, and leaving the camp of a potential geopolitical enemy, Ukraine became a traitor.
        2. Apostle
          Apostle 13 June 2013 16: 52
          I do not agree with you, in western Ukraine, apart from floods, traitors, and the Svoboda party, there is nothing, from an economic point of view, it is not expedient.
        3. MG42
          MG42 13 June 2013 17: 01
          Quote: Apollon
          Again, divide Ukraine, well, then catch the minus from me.

          more logical to hear it from Svidomo Ukrainians ..
          Quote: Apollon
          It is within its current borders that I see it in the future and renewed Union.

          This is ideally .. in real life Galicia can enter such a Union unless under severe coercion = to send troops there and the history of the UPA will repeat itself, why such a "headache" for the future Union?
          1. Gecko
            Gecko 13 June 2013 17: 16
            I also think so, why the extra sacrifices on both sides. Galicia is Poland in miniature, it also hates Russians fiercely, and is located on the border through which the EU will fuel separatism. And you need to be realistic, the West will not completely give up Ukraine, and the CU, like the EU, will not feed entire Ukraine.
            1. MG42
              MG42 13 June 2013 17: 23
              Ternopil Oblast is also slightly inferior to hate in the rating of hatred ..
              these people at a parade in Galicia passionately want a renewed Union negative
              1. MG42
                MG42 13 June 2013 17: 45
                Quote: gecko
                Galicia is Poland in miniature

                Everyone probably came to terms with the loss of the Baltic states, these countries both in the EU and in nature, with the loss of Galicia will probably have to, the question in another Poland is also not particularly needed for Bandera people remember the Volyn massacre there, and even Euros were excluded from their radical European club. .
                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 13 June 2013 21: 34
                  The Baltic states are a minor issue, but no one will let them go completely.
              2. individual
                individual 13 June 2013 18: 55
                ... to be when, like in a movie I went to meet them from the pedestal tank T34.
                I recall newsreels of another parade when Soviet soldiers in gloves threw the Nazi standards to the mausoleum. And for the prisoners in Moscow there were watering machines...
                That was a PARADE!
                1. MG42
                  MG42 13 June 2013 19: 05
                  Quote: individ
                  So that it was when, like in a movie, a T34 tank left the pedestal to meet them.

                  Yes, it's not even about these warriors, but how the local population supports them, look how in Sevastopol they were not even allowed to walk a few hundred meters = they were guarded by the police, but here it's the opposite, the veterans of the Great Patriotic War are guarded from them by St.George ribbons were torn off on May 9 and burned them trampled, >>> support of the local population = this is a partisan war ..
                  2 years ago on May 9, Lviv on the buses were WWII veterans
            2. DEfindER
              DEfindER 13 June 2013 17: 46
              Quote: gecko
              I also think so, why the extra sacrifices on both sides. Galicia is Poland in miniature, it also hates Russians fiercely, and is located on the border through which the EU will fuel separatism.

              Now Galicia is shaking Ukraine and will pump the whole union, somehow I didn't really want to remember .. to remember after the war, Stalin did not want to annex this region to the Union, because of a strong pro-Nazi orientation, but Truman seemed to persuade him .. like - "Take my friend not you will regret! "
        4. Avenger711
          Avenger711 13 June 2013 21: 28
          No, Galicia separately, Little Russia and New Russia separately.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 18: 57
      Quote: Prometheus
      The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?

      Evraz. The Union will be created as a confederation, and the internal administrative and territorial arrangement will remain the prerogative of the republican authorities.
  3. Nevsky
    Nevsky 13 June 2013 15: 48
    Quote: Prometheus
    The Eurasian Union implies a common military, economic and customs space. What about the territorial structure?

    In the sense? Do you have enough free movement and a common currency? wassat

    Everything can be ... but only before a very powerful external force, or in the future, a solid support group within the countries of the Union soldier
    1. Prometheus
      Prometheus 13 June 2013 15: 58
      What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?
      1. Apollo
        13 June 2013 16: 16
        Quote: Prometheus
        What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?

        It is not so important in what form (by the way, the confederation already exists, but in a very reduced form. In the form of the CIS) this future Union will look (of course preferable to the federation), the main thing is that you need to take a step and finally move from words to deeds.
        1. Renat
          Renat 13 June 2013 16: 37
          The abbreviation CIS has completely discredited itself. The word "Union" sounds much more powerful.
          1. individual
            individual 13 June 2013 18: 44
            Let us recall how we felt uncomfortable when in December 1991, in Viskuli, Belovezhskaya Pushcha, a trio of villains called our country the CIS.
      2. avt
        avt 13 June 2013 17: 32
        Quote: Prometheus
        What will it be? Federation, confederation or something else?

        And hegg knows him, no one tastes laughing So far, only an artistic whistle of each about his own and everyone does not say what he means by this. One is clear - without a single decision-making center that is binding, all this .... well, to put it mildly, the CIS named after EBN. And in the affairs of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the decision-making time by a single command, which even does not exist yet, and the reaction to fulfilling them, as well as the responsibility for not fulfilling, are also decreasing. We have already seen all this movement by the example of a union state with Belarus, now now add Kazakhstan and figure out how to organize all this with the current ambitions of the national elites of ALL the unifying states. So far, everything is according to Krylov, well, where the swan is cancer and pike, but it’s already good though, and not the swan with pike cancer.
  4. faraon
    faraon 13 June 2013 16: 02
    thank God it’s time to see the revealed Union. bring it together, the economy will finally work. The well-being of the people will rise. You can only rejoice
    1. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 16: 27
      and Israeli guest workers will be in the ECE ... well, when most of the functions will be transferred from the state level to this ECE.
      1. Black
        Black 13 June 2013 19: 52
        Quote: DeerIvanovich
        and Israeli guest workers will sit in the ECE

        No .... perhaps we won’t have enough time to set up so many banks.
    2. Apollo
      13 June 2013 16: 38
      to the thesis Eurasian Integration: Global Aspect

      citation-In the context of globalization and increased competition throughout the world there is a steady tendency to the emergence and strengthening of regional economic associations. Given the continuing crisis in the global financial and economic system, integration processes are becoming even more relevant and significant.

      There is nothing to add, it sounds like an axiom. good

      to the thesis The core of Eurasian integration

      quote-As the leadership of our country has repeatedly emphasized, Eurasian integration is Russia's strategic choice.

      I will add that Russia plays the fundamental role in all integration processes throughout the post-Soviet space, and it is it that pulls the whole heavy burden on itself.

      to the thesis Customs Union and Common Economic Space

      citation-A unified system of foreign trade tariff, non-tariff and customs regulation, a coordinated policy in the field of technical regulation, the application of sanitary, veterinary and phytosanitary measures has been formed.

      it’s ingenious, it’s through the economy, and where the economy is there and political integration, like twice two.

      to the thesis Practical results of integration

      quote-New integration formats already bring a very specific practical impact. It is expressed not only in terms of GDP growth and mutual trade, although they are significant.

      the results are obvious and therefore the benefit. and where the benefit is and the temptation to join other states that, for themselves, have not yet decided on the issue of joining the integration processes.

      to the thesis Supranational body of the Eurasian integration project

      citation-An important element contributing to the deepening of Eurasian integration is the creation of the Eurasian Economic Commission (ECE).

      it is inevitable and natural.

      to the thesis Possible expansion of the integration project

      quote-For citizens, the removal of migration, border and other barriers, the so-called “labor quotas”, will mean the ability to choose where to live, get an education, work without any restrictions. By the way, in the USSR - with its institute of registration - there was no such freedom. ”

      the end result will be just that good That is, it is the revival of our own and dear to us all the state that united all the nations then under the name of the USSR. But the process is difficult but we will overcome it.
  5. Begemot
    Begemot 13 June 2013 16: 12
    But why did they get into the WTO?
    1. Renat
      Renat 13 June 2013 16: 40
      That is right. The benefits there are far less than the losses. (If at all there is any benefit). Once the overseas owners gave the face so our puppets and slap the country.
  6. DeerIvanovich
    DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 16: 33
    hmm ... after such news about further expansion, I don’t feel like talking ... again we are stepping on the same rake: they gave the land to Azerbaijan:

    is it really only because instead of Gabala, Azerbaijan decided to buy tanks from us and not from the Turks?
    1. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 18: 33
      judging by the assessment of the statement of fact, someone does not like ...
      but it may be that this land concession is in exchange for peace in Karabakh ...
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 20: 22
        The transfer of various sections of border lands is a natural process. For example, during the last delimitation of the Kazakh-Russian border, a plot was transferred from Russia to Kazakhstan from Kazakhstan, where a small village was located, the inhabitants of which worked at a nearby Russian enterprise. In order not to ruin people's lives, Astana transferred the land of this village to Russia (in return they got a piece of bare steppe nearby).
        The other day, in one of the articles on the site, they mentioned a case in Turkic history, when the future Xiongnu Shanyu Mode-batyr gave the best horses to the enemy, his wife, but started a war when insolent neighbors demanded a small area of ​​bare steppe. This case is well known to the Kazakhs, Mode-batyr is revered by us as one of the ancestors. However, there are cases when concessions must be made in order to maintain real friendly relations. Especially considering the fact that many sections of the border are really controversial, and the other side also has some kind of historical right to own them. Sometimes, using force, we unfairly took away some territory, if we recall the Russian-Chinese relations, then we can recall the facts when the Russian Cossacks arbitrarily moved the border posts deep into the Chinese territory, taking advantage of the fact that the then weakened Qing empire could not oppose something pressure from world powers. It is better to divide such plots more or less fairly, understanding that there will always be dissatisfied citizens on both sides. "Disputed territory" and "primordial lands" (for which you really need to fight to the death) are different concepts. It is better to divide the disputed territories and put an end to this action, so that in the future there will be no leads for claims and wars.
        Another example of a border "carve-up" is the Caspian Sea. Kazakhstan and Russia are extracting hydrocarbons from fields located on the line of the water area to the point of banality - according to the 50/50 principle. And they do not look at whose water area most of the field is located. If I am not mistaken, Azerbaijan and Russia are also engaged in oil and gas production.
        But Turkmenistan and Iran with Azerbaijan still cannot solve the question with each other who is the owner of the disputed fields.
  7. vlad tankov
    vlad tankov 13 June 2013 16: 35
    [q in the USSR - with its institute of registration uote] [/ quote] registration has not gone anywhere. Now it is called registration
  8. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 13 June 2013 17: 13
    The world respects strength and military power in the first place .. The calls for "Peace to the world .." unilateral disarmament .. led you know what .. Russia to rearm .. is increasing its scientific and technological potential (so far with the help of (selling) our natural resources alas .. but this is temporary .. Russia began to be reckoned with in the world .. and even a little afraid .. The result is obvious .. And this is just the beginning .. they will soon stand in line to be friends with us ..
  9. UFO
    UFO 13 June 2013 17: 17
    I put the article -, because of the last paragraph. Because I personally would not want to unite with someone within the framework of the former USSR. They are already here without any "free movement of labor", and they are bored to the point of disgrace. I want them to "move freely" in the opposite direction! yes hi wink
    1. Prometheus
      Prometheus 13 June 2013 19: 14
      Tajiks and Uzbeks?
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 19: 46
      Quote: UFO
      Because I personally would not want to unite with someone within the framework of the former USSR. They are already here without any "free movement of labor", and they are bored to the point of disgrace. I want them to "move freely" in the opposite direction!

      Tajiks and Uzbeks themselves would be happy to return home and have normal living conditions there. And we must help them with this. It makes no sense to simply not let them in (moreover, it is fraught with the fact that they simply go to the camp of our enemies), the Eurasian Union can and must create normal conditions there, then they will return home (but not all at once - Uzbekistan has at the moment a disproportionate number of labor resources, so that part of the Uzbeks will probably remain in the Russian Federation and the KZ, where whatever one may say, there is a shortage of workers).
      Nazarbayev has now flown to Tashkent. Recently, the meetings of these two presidents have become more frequent. A good sign, if you recall that all these years, relations between Astana and Tashkent were not cloudless. Uzbekistan is a country with great economic potential. Tajikistan - read the appendix to Uzbekistan in this regard. Kyrgyzstan - annex to Kazakhstan. By the way, the landing of Kazakhstani officials and business executives constantly flies to Kyrgyzstan with the goal of building a state management system there and creating conditions for investments.
      In short, we will pull out our neighbors. This is for our own good. In the same way, it is necessary to pull out the economies of both Ukraine and the Caucasus until a normal mechanism works there. This is not a "heavy cross" and not "money down the drain", it is money and efforts invested in the future strong Eurasian Union, whose creation is positively perceived by the absolute majority of the CIS residents. In short, everyone already understood that we were doing the USSR, but taking into account the previous mistakes. We make some mistakes, but, as you know, there is no textbook on creating an ideal state.
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher 14 June 2013 01: 32
        You know how to say - when you don't fall into "epic fantasies" ... *) Plus you, dear ... Uzbekistan, beyond the Eurasian Union, will not run away anywhere, it's a no brainer. Moreover, the sobering up of our "elite" has become apparent. And Nazarbayev and Karimov, God himself commanded to negotiate ... Just like Putin and Karimov ... God forbid they become stunning newsmakers in the near future ...
        1. hommer
          hommer 14 June 2013 08: 03
          You know how to say - when you don't fall into "epic fantasies" ... *) Plus you, dear ..

          Well, firstly, these are not fantasies, Marek Rozny's comments are always justified.
          Secondly, we Kazakhs cannot live without it. fellow
          The peculiarity of the mentality is this - everyone should know seven of their ancestors in a direct paternal line - Zheta Ata - all descendants of one ancestor to the seventh generation are considered close relatives. Ancient custom requires knowing seven generations of ancestors and prohibits marriages within
          So accept us as we are, we will not be others! drinks
          But seriously - integration is difficult, it seems to someone even slowly, but it does!
          And thoughtless haste here is inappropriate and even harmful, it is necessary to use this historical chance to one hundred percent.
          If it doesn’t work out, I'm afraid there will be no second chance!
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 25
          Quote: de_monSher
          You know how to say - when you don't fall into "epic fantasies" ...

          Which of us is perfect?))) Although my opinion about the fact that Uzbeks are shitty soldiers remains the same) Maybe somewhere in a non-epic parallel world, Uzbeks and Tajiks became famous as severe wars, but not in this "epic" real world ...
          Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks. And as managers, we are better (our strategic thinking is better developed). But the Uzbek, however, works better with his hands, easily achieving a high level of skill. And in other peaceful professions, Uzbeks will easily give odds to the steppes. There are numerous exceptions, but in general these are the characteristics of our peoples (I don’t know, maybe the mentality is completely different, or maybe just a side effect of eating horse meat on the body wink )
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 14 June 2013 22: 34
            Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks.

            You brag about it, Neighbor, especially when you drink ... let's not argue, this is the ultimate truth ... *)) But nevertheless, who is closest to the Uzbeks? Uighurs and Kazakhs, not even Tajiks ... = spread out his hands = ... such is our fate ... *)
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 14 June 2013 23: 03
              Quote: de_monSher
              Let's not argue, Kazakh fights better than Uzbeks.

              You brag about it, Neighbor, especially when you drink ... let's not argue, this is the ultimate truth ... *)) But nevertheless, who is closest to the Uzbeks? Uighurs and Kazakhs, not even Tajiks ... = spread out his hands = ... such is our fate ... *)

              There is little bragging, but as if without it, and after zhuz grams it’s generally sacred like fishermen and hunters laughing
          2. de_monSher
            de_monSher 14 June 2013 23: 06
            By the way ... by the way. My, so to speak, "family lands" (at least, of my ancestors) were in South Kazakhstan - Turvat, Sary-Agach (Saragash, as you now call). And my cousins' surname ends with "-baev". And on the face - Kazakhs Kazakhs ... *) But formally and in essence, we are still Uzbeks ... eh ... *)
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 15 June 2013 01: 00
              Well, yes) Kazakh is an amateur to brag about))) oh well, not without reason)))
              in general, every Kazakh remembers that Uzbeks and Kazakhs are one and the same nation, until the Uzbeks were merged with Sarts and Tajiks under the general name of Uzbek. I perceive each Uzbek with Mongoloid features as his own. and I know that he eats horsemeat, and with his fist can hit hard in the face.
              it's just that most Uzbeks now are Turkic Tajiks and Sarts. I usually mean them when I say the word "Uzbek". Well, I don't see anything related when I communicate with a Caucasian Tajik, who is now called an Uzbek. Even if he is more cultured than I am, I still don't feel "brotherhood". A cheeky Ukrainian or Mongolian-speaking Buryat makes me more sense of kinship than Tajiks (while I treat them normally, but not like a related people). Well, imagine - you meet a black man who speaks the Turkmen language and will tell you that he is your Turkic relative. How will you take it? Of course, with irony. I have nothing against Tajiks and blacks. I readily communicated and will communicate. Only as relatives I do not perceive them.
              Those Uzbeks who came from nomadic real Uzbeks (Konyrats, Barlas, Kipchaks and others) are another matter. These are the ones that Kazakhs have always said "ozbek - oz agam".
              They simply made people wise with ethnonyms in Soviet times.
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher 15 June 2013 01: 20
                Those Uzbeks who descended from nomadic real Uzbeks are another matter. These are the ones that Kazakhs have always said "ozbek - oz agam".

                Eh, again - away we go, away we go ... *) Everything is correct, but even latent nationalism - throw it out to hell, Neighbor ... *) He will not lead to any good ... My Father, in Germany, like that, General Kulikov , the deceased already now, unfortunately, considered him a German ... he thought that his surname was Iskander, not his first name. Until one day, he found out who he is, and just with such surprise, he gave out - "So you, it turns out, Uzbek or something, lieutenant colonel, and not a German ?!" Why am I. We've got everything mixed up here, mixed up and coolly mixed up - let's start the business, cut the pridezza - most likely the head and throat.

                In Novosibirsk, once, a woman alone, a Russian, at the station, tried to take my Brother and Sister away from my Mom - she dragged me to the police station ... It seemed to her that my Mom had stolen them. And laughter and sin ... *) Brother and Sister went to the Father - white-skinned, brown-haired - European features. I went to Mom's breed - more Asian features, even somewhere Semitic Arab. The border runs not through our "faces-faces", but through our souls and hearts ...

                That's something like this ...
              2. de_monSher
                de_monSher 15 June 2013 02: 01
                Marek Rozny

                Yes, and in your country in Kazakhstan, look at the diversity ... Let us take women - the northern Kazakhs, tall, handsome, white - beautiful. Somewhere closer to the Tatars even by facial features. And Southern Kazashki is a completely different type of beauty, southern. But, as a rule, short and dark. Well ... sometimes it seems like two different people, already. But just two Zhuzes - Senior and Middle ... *) I didn’t overlap with the people of the Younger Zhuz - only once, when I worked for you in the Caspian region ... you also differ ... *)

                No need to frivolously divide people ... this is not good ... absolutely not good ... *)
  10. grandfather
    grandfather 13 June 2013 17: 34
    I am for an alliance, and let the Ukrainians be determined either all together or nowhere, and they certainly can’t see Europe on equal terms ..
  11. individual
    individual 13 June 2013 18: 33
    "... so that the nearest neighbors would not be artificially faced with a difficult choice between the" western "and" eastern "vectors of development, but could participate in integration processes throughout the Eurasian space."

    Artificial creation EurAsEC, CSTO, CU and CES only financial and diplomatic support By Russia. Of course, the "Customs Union" brings pluses to the economies of Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus.
    But we have to strengthen the Russian economy and neighboring countries will easily reach the sphere of Russian and joint interests.
  12. Yeraz
    Yeraz 13 June 2013 18: 45
    Yes, it will be interesting to see how Putin, Lukashenko, Nazarbayev share power .... the CSTO ally Tajikistan still ratifies the agreement with the Russian Federation, the Union State has been created for how many years ... but in words, how beautiful and easy it sounds. ..
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 19: 26
      A good example is the Swiss Confederation. There, at the helm, in turn, a representative from each canton. No one is offended. But Nazarbayev is not a proud person in this regard, he may well cede the right to the first presidential term of Russia. It will be quite reasonable. Moreover, all three of these presidents have long known each other, and have long worked together. Nazarbayev and Putin generally meet more often than once a month. And go call almost every week.
      I remembered the scene of the KVN team Astana.KZ "The presidents of Russia and Kazakhstan meet each other so often that they have no more topics to discuss ...".
      Lukashenko is a hot and impulsive person, therefore no-no breaks down. But very quickly he pulls himself together and further works with Russia.
      All three clearly understand where to go and do it despite the opposition of external and internal forces. And at the same time, they do not reasonably reveal all the cards for all to see. The Eurasian Union is still being issued to the West as a purely economic entity, although the citizens of the CU and the White House have already perfectly understood that this is a renewed reincarnation of the Eurasian empire.

      ZY Apparently, the ancient steppe inhabitants of the 6th century were right, who created the Türkic Kaganate, which stretched from the Far East to the Black Sea, calling their imperial state the "Eternal State". After the collapse, it degenerated into the Horde (then the foundations of the Slavic-Turkic symbiosis were laid), then, after the collapse, it degenerated into the Russian Empire, then into the USSR, and now another form of the Eternal Empire is coming, created in accordance with the era and political realities. As this empire was the largest in the world, it has remained. Whether geography is to blame or the amazing complementarity of the mentality of the Eastern Slavs, Turks and Finno-Ugric peoples, or we were just lucky to have leaders with imperial ambitions - but the fact remains: the external border of the Eurasian state has not changed for many hundreds of years, and our enemies remained the same as they were fifteen hundred years ago - the German-speaking world and the Chinese.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 13 June 2013 22: 12
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Eurasian Union is still being issued to the West as a purely economic entity, although the citizens of the CU and the White House have already perfectly understood that this is a renewed reincarnation of the Eurasian empire.

        And if in Russia the economic system changes and we move on to the socialist form of economy? What do you think, Marat, will the Eurasian Union stand up? Or will you also have to change the system?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 13 June 2013 23: 35
          There will be no more Soviet socialism. It is clear that there will be a capitalist system. Another thing is that we must try to make it have the best features of the socialist system. Much has to be taken from China and the Scandinavian countries. But communist ideology in its pure form has exhausted itself as an economic system and, accordingly, as an ideology. This is just another phase of humanity, like feudalism in its time. Socialism helped capitalism to acquire more "human" features. Compare what the capitalist world was like in the early 20th century and what it is now. The difference is enormous. Especially when comparing the life of an American / English worker at that time and the life of a current Norwegian or German worker.
          What is the main goal of the state in relation to its own citizen? In order for a citizen to be full, shod, developed, have a rich leisure and feel safe. At the moment, Western Europe and the cap.countries of Asia can offer us the best model. This should be guided. There are no other good examples of socio-economic development.
          In general, even if we assume that the Russian Federation will go on the rails of the Soviet-style social economy, Kazakhstan can calmly continue to develop according to the capitalist model (or vice versa). There is a good example of such a symbiosis - China and Hong Kong - one country, two economic models.
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 14 June 2013 08: 44
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There will be no more Soviet socialism. It is clear that there will be a capitalist device.

            Thanks for the answer. I understand you.
            1. dmb
              dmb 14 June 2013 11: 19
              Sorry to interfere with the dialogue. But with this one can argue. Why are you comparing the situation of workers at the beginning of the last century in one country with the situation of workers at the beginning of the next century in another? Apparently because it is so convenient, it fits your own theory. Then let's compare the situation of the indigenous Swedes and the Arabs or Sudanese Swedes. That it was differently shown by the recent riots in this well-fed prosperous country. Do you seriously (like some underdeveloped fellow citizens) think that the basis of indignation lies exclusively in the national or religious plane? Something I did not see among the rebellious Arab sheikhs. You noted quite rightly that it was socialism that pushed the capitalists to improve the position of the producers. The bourgeois really understood, if they did not do this, they would be deprived of everything. Now there is no one to compare with. Therefore, social programs are being phased out almost all over the world. Nobody has proved that Marx's words that for the sake of profit the capitalist will commit any crimes is utopia. Moreover, in our native Motherland, we are convinced of this every day. Yes, and in yours I remember not so long ago there was a "oil" bucha. Okay, we sort of sorted it out with Sweden, now China. Certainly his model is more attractive, although less understandable. But you cannot call him socially oriented, because most of the Chinese live in poverty. In my opinion, China is now in a period somewhat similar to our NEP and industrialization, and a bunch of Chinese billionaires can dispose of their fortune as much as the ruling party allows them. And in fact, what did not suit you (based on the list given by you) Soviet socialism of the pre-Gorbachev period. Yes, there was not much abundance, but there were no hungry people, they dressed better during this period than in the same China, I will not say anything about safety at all, and apparently you too. It was really a problem with leisure, more and more books were read, not porno magazines, they played football, but not roulette, with Kirkorov and Comedy-Club it was really bad. The comment format does not allow for many more arguments. I will dwell on only one. Is it possible that pragmatic capitalists spent huge resources for many years, endangering their existence, for the sake of destroying a system that would have collapsed anyway due to its unviability, there is simply nothing to do.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 17
                DMB, in general, agree.
                Perhaps I was wrong in comparing the early 20th century English / American common worker to today's Germans or Scandinavians. Then let's compare their situation with the current British / American workers. The picture after the replacement of the Germans / Scandinavians did not change much. We cannot say that the British / American proletarians are living in poverty and hunger (if we do not mean all the migrant workers from neighboring countries). I gave the example of the Germans / Scandinavians - as the most successful model of the capitalist system with a "socialist face". We will not argue with the fact that the Norwegian worker lives better than his colleague in the Soviet Union.
                Soviet socialism is not bad, but Swedish "socialism" looks preferable.
                Marx was, of course, right about the capitalist's greed. Therefore, a socially oriented capitalist state should pursue a policy of containing the base impulses of the "bourgeois". The very same Nazarbayev constantly hammers Kazakhstani businessmen on the topic of their "social responsibility" so that they are not particularly forgotten. Therefore, for several years now they have been trying to create a class of "socially oriented" entrepreneurs in our country.
                Soviet socialism had a significant disadvantage - a person with ambitions could not achieve high material well-being. A fixed income kills a person's urge to do something outside of their responsibilities. Yes, the system of state awards is good, but these are half-measures to stimulate private initiative. Equalization in its purest form is not gut. And enterprises were not interested in the development of their marketable products, because "they will buy it anyway." As a result, after 1991, consumer goods of Soviet factories instantly became uninteresting to our citizens, when a foreign product appeared (albeit not always of high quality, but definitely more convenient and beautiful).
                We have a unique experience of living in a social country. Now we are familiar with the charms and "charms" of the cap system. The task of the state is to combine both systems in the most successful way. In Kazakhstan, for example, experiments are constantly going on (although the population does not fully understand their essence and considers this a sign of the authorities' idiocy) - they create and dissolve SEC (social and entrepreneurial corporations), form relations with business within the framework of a "public-private partnership" created a giant state corporation Samruk-Kazyna,
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 12: 18
                  , which holds in its hands the lion's share of the economy (by the way, the full name of Samruk-Kazyna National Welfare Fund JSC, formerly the Sustainable Development Fund), conducts "people's IPOs" (they force ordinary citizens to buy shares of Kazakhstani enterprises, so that everyone feels themselves the recipient of a share of the national income), they constantly really drum into big business about the need to "share" with society, etc. So far, it is difficult to call all these actions successful, but it is obvious that the government is looking for options for "socialist capitalism." Nazarbayev and most of the political establishment left the "socialist" overcoat. By the way, Nazarbayev is a serious critic of the current world capitalist system, openly criticizes the defects of the existing financial world in the international stands (and even came up with a name - "defectal"). into the essence of his thoughts, and thinks "the old man is weird." And he says real things. True, realizing that the Kazakh dancing these theories are deep on the drum, he voices them from the world's stands. He speaks to the people more simply (the former metallurgist): "First the economy, then politics", before the onset of the crisis he openly warns of the need to tighten belts, and in general makes it clear that we will live like a human if we act according to the plan until 2030 (now until 2050). Previously, the people laughed, but now the majority of Kazakhstanis are convinced of the efficiency of the state development schemes and still believe that next year they will live better than this year, because this year we live better than last.
                  As for entertainment, look again at KZ - we don't have toilet humor on TV and gays on stage. And children's sports are now developing. In general, increased attention is paid to sports. I think at the last Olympics, you noticed how the Kazakhs made a splash when they rose above Russia, Germany, Britain in the final table and took only gold in the first days. Only at the end of the Olympics, Russia and Europe still overtook the "upstart")))) But we all beat our nerves pretty much, judging by the foreign press))))
                  School education is also trying to pull to a high level. At international competitions, it is already commonplace when Kazakhs tear to shreds of Western European peers. Here with higher education we have a completely hopeless situation. But again, they are trying to do something. Not so long ago, the Nazarbayev-University complex was opened, there teachers from Moscow State University, Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard work there. The only educational complex in the KZ created according to all the templates of recognized international educational centers. Let's see what happens.
                  Well, as far as security is concerned, it's still much calmer here than in Russia. There is practically no crime on the streets at all (in clubs, young people fight on drunkenness, but without it nowhere). The main types of crime are road accidents and corruption. Provocations from foreign "well-wishers" and fugitive oligarchs (Zhanaozen, homegrown terrorists) were quickly extinguished. Hard, with blood, but quickly and without giving the possibility of relapse. Both the work was carried out inside the country, and the external threats were weakened as much as possible, including the fact that our "Berezovskaya" people abroad we have greatly pissed off. If the Russian oligarchs in Britain receive refugee status, then the Kazakh fugitive oligarchs (posing as "political opposition") in Britain (and in the rest of Europe) are officially declared criminals by local law enforcement officers and they are all sentenced to prison in absentia. Here's how to work with the "external opposition"))))
                  1. dmb
                    dmb 14 June 2013 12: 57
                    It's nice to deal with an opponent who expresses his position without shouting about, but let's move from compliments to the merits. I think that it is very easy for Nazarbayev to criticize the world capitalist system, and we can do this too. Although it is more difficult for you, because you see no alternative to it. But with socialism it is more difficult. You have cited only one counter-argument, egalitarianism, as a consequence of the lack of initiative. However, one should not forget (since we have already begun to compare) that the equalization of the times of Khrushchev and Brezhnev. as they say in Odessa, there are two big differences. Socialist society did not stand still, it continued to develop. Moreover, it went along a completely unknown path. Well, there was no historical experience, and therefore mistakes are quite possible. Of course, when building a new socialism, these mistakes will be taken into account. And I personally have no doubts that socialism, as a social system, will eventually replace capitalism. Otherwise, you will have to admit that capitalism is the final stage of the existence of human society, after which it will come kirdyk. For the "guest workers" from neighboring countries are not at all satisfied that they receive less for their labor than the indigenous ones. And it doesn't matter if it's America, Russia, Kazakhstan or Sweden.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 14 June 2013 14: 06
                      The egalitarianism of the Khrushchev and Brezhnev samples have their own characteristics, but in essence they remain a form of the same phenomenon.
                      Regarding what is the next form of development, then if we start from the logic that capitalism of the early 20th century is an "advanced" version of feudalism, then why not consider that the next form of common government is "socialist capitalism" / "capitalism with a socialist face"? And "socialism" itself is a side branch of the general order, which is most likely a dead end. The very emergence of socialism is a "bent branch effect". When capitalism reached the ugliest form of its existence, a socialist movement arose (as a protest). Communist ideals are the maximum utopian idea. As a result, as we know, the cap system began to absorb various social elements into its device so as not to self-destruct. The socialist system was a good kick to the capitalist world, ammonia for sobering up. As a result, despite its basic flaws, capitalism has become much more humane in relation to the working class.
                      But the point is not even theories. The point is in practice. Each state of the capital of the world conducts its social policy and state regulation of the economy. What is wrong with the capital system if the state creates normal living conditions for ordinary citizens?
                      I am more frightened in the capital system by wastefulness in relation to natural resources. The sale of goods with a specific (short) service life threatens, as you understand, in the end a complete train for future generations. In this regard, the USSR with its cast-iron pans looks a little more humane to nature.
                      1. dmb
                        dmb 14 June 2013 22: 13
                        Do not you think that you are contradicting yourself. If the result of development is an ugly form, then it is unlikely to be attractive to most of the Society. Another question is the possibility of a smooth change of some economic relations by others. I would really like it without shocks, but this is just utopian. Well, the capitalist will not refuse (as you and Marx rightly say) the profit, but he will refuse, they will devour him. not workers and all kinds of socialists, but their own rival bourgeois brothers. Therefore, he will waste the resources of the planet and produce all kinds of g ... and will beastly resisted to any of its regulation, including state regulation. For such is the nature of capitalism. If it were different, Roma Abramovich would have settled on the first billion, which more than covers all normal human needs. Unless of course we are talking about the needs of cattle, which Roma is. I repeat, but apart from the unfounded allegations that communism is a utopian idea, I do not observe any serious arguments for confirming this thesis. Even you, a person who thinks.
              2. The comment was deleted.
  13. Semurg
    Semurg 13 June 2013 19: 49
    Breaking down does not build, what was broken easily and quickly is now trying to recover hard and for a long time. And for the good, as in a toast so that our desires coincide with our capabilities.
  14. Black
    Black 13 June 2013 20: 01
    Quote: Apollon
    the end result will be just this good That is, the revival of our native and dear to all of us state that united all peoples then under the name of the USSR. It’s a difficult process, but we will overcome it

    Only a seriously ill patient may not wish for it. The creation of the Union of Eurasian States would end the protracted systemic crisis in the post-Soviet space that arose during the collapse of the USSR. This would be the beginning of a global world order in the XNUMXst century, just as the USSR played this role in the XNUMXst century.

    The question is different - will the elite, which even without integration draws full measure to take steps on the path of this "difficult, but surmountable path"?
  15. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 13 June 2013 20: 11
    Of course, the integration processes that occur between the countries of the Customs Union stimulate the development of the economies of these countries. Bureaucratic barriers are being removed. The successes of the Customs Union show the correctness of the chosen path.
  16. Skifo
    Skifo 13 June 2013 20: 25
    The West will not allow you to create something really useful while you have to reckon with it ...
  17. Abakanets
    Abakanets 13 June 2013 21: 08
    The Eurasian Union is not needed, too many parasites will rush into it.
  18. andrejwz
    andrejwz 14 June 2013 06: 20
    Dzyarzhaunaya mova sustraraketsstsa only at the names of the towns

    I can be blamed for Great Russian chauvinism, but damn it, I don’t want this little grouchy Belarusian dialect to disappear.