Military Review

N.S.Trubetskoy "On the peoples of the Caucasus"

69
Trubetskoy Nikolay Sergeevich (1890-1938) - One of the most universal thinkers of the Russian emigration abroad, the largest linguist, philologist, historian, philosopher, political scientist. Born in 1890 in Moscow in the family of the rector of Moscow University, a famous professor of philosophy S.N. Trubetskoy. The family, who bore the ancient princely surname, belonged to the Gediminovich family, among whom were such prominent figures of Russia as the boyar and diplomat Alexey Nikitich (died in 1680), field marshal Nikita Yuryevich (1699-1767), N.Novikova's ally writer Nikolai Nikitich (1744-1821), Decembrist Sergey Petrovich (1790-1860), religious philosophers Sergey Nikolaevich (1862-1905) and Evgenia Nikolaevich (1863-1920), sculptor Pavel (Paolo) Petrovich (1790-1860). The atmosphere of the family, which was one of the intellectual and spiritual centers of Moscow, favored the awakening of early scientific interests. Ever since the gymnasium years N.Trubetskoy seriously begins to engage in ethnography, folklore studies, linguistics, and history and philosophy. In 1908, he entered the Faculty of History and Philology of Moscow University, attending classes in the cycle of the philosophy and psychology department and then in the department of Western European literature. In 1912, he completed the first graduation of the department of comparative linguistics and was left at the university department, after which he was sent to Leipzig, where he studied the doctrines of the grammar school.


Returning to Moscow, he published a number of articles on North Caucasian folklore studies, problems of Finno-Ugric languages ​​and Slavic studies. He was an active participant in the Moscow linguistic group, where, along with issues of linguistics, along with scientists and writers, he seriously studied and developed mythology, folk science, ethnography, and cultural history, closely approaching the future Eurasian topic. After the events of 1917, N. Trubetskoy's successful university work was interrupted and he went to Kislovodsk, and then taught for some time at Rostov University. Gradually, he came to the conclusion that the Slavs in the spiritual sense were more closely connected with the East than with the West, where, in his opinion, contacts were made primarily in the field of material culture.

In 1920, N. Trubetskoy left Russia and moved to Bulgaria, and began research and teaching activities at Sofia University as a professor. In the same year he released his famous work "Europe and Humanity", which brings him closely to the elaboration of the Eurasian ideology. In the future, N. Trubetskoy's activity developed in two directions: 1) purely scientific, dedicated to philological and linguistic problems (the work of the Prague Circle, which became the center of world phonology, then the years of research in Vienna), 2) cultural and ideological, associated with participation in the Eurasian movement . N.Trubetskoy approaches with P.N.Savitsky, P.P.Suvchinsky, G.V. Florovsky, is published in "Eurasian periodicals" and "chronicles", periodically gives reports in various cities of Europe. In the development of Eurasian ideas, the main merits of N. Trubetskoy include his concept of the “top” and “bottom” of Russian culture, the doctrine of “true nationalism” and “Russian self-knowledge”.

By virtue of their psychological characteristics, N. Trubetskoy preferred quiet, academic work to politics. Although he had to write articles in the genre of political journalism, he avoided direct participation in organizational propaganda and regretted when Eurasianism made a bias in politics. Therefore, in the story of the newspaper Eurasia, he took a uniquely irreconcilable position in relation to the left wing of the movement and left the Eurasian organization, resuming publications in updated editions only a few years later.

The last years of his life N. Trubetskoy lived in Vienna, where he worked as a professor of Slavic at the University of Vienna. After the Anschluss of Austria, he was harassed by the Gestapo. Much of his manuscripts were confiscated and subsequently destroyed. According to the testimony of L.N.Gumilev, who received this information from P.N.Savitsky, N.Trubetskogo was not arrested just because he was "a prince, an aristocrat, but in his apartment there were repeated, and very rude searches, which resulted in myocardial infarction and early death. " 25 July 1938, at the age of 48, N.Trubetskoy died.


Article written in 1925g.

All the nations surrounded me, but in the name of the Lord I put them down.
Ps. 117, 10


In the Transcaucasus there are: Armenians who have always been and will adhere to the Russian orientation, whatever the Russian government. There can be no serious Armenian separatism. It is always easy to come to terms with Armenians. But the bet on the Armenians would be a mistake. Strong economically, concentrating in their hands the leadership of the entire economic life of Transcaucasia, they at the same time have a general antipathy, reaching the hatred of their neighbors. To solidify oneself with them would be to incur this antipathy and hatred. An example of the policy of the pre-revolutionary period, which ultimately led to the fact that the Russians remained with Armenians alone and turned against all the other nationalities of Transcaucasia against themselves, should serve as a lesson. In addition, the Armenian question is to a certain extent an international question. The attitude of the Russian government to the Armenians in the Caucasus should be coordinated with relations between Russia and Turkey.

Since the February Revolution, Georgians have achieved recognition of their rights, at least for autonomy, and these rights cannot be challenged. But at the same time, since this provision gives rise to the emergence of Georgian separatism, every Russian government is obliged to fight it. If Russia wants to preserve Baku oil (without which it is hardly possible to hold not only the Caucasus, but also the North Caucasus), it cannot allow an independent Georgia. The difficulty and complexity of the Georgian problem lies precisely in the fact that it is now practically impossible not to recognize a certain degree of independence of Georgia, and to recognize its full political independence is not permissible. Here a well-known middle line should be chosen, moreover, one that would not give rise to Russophobic sentiments in the Georgian environment ... It should also be understood that Georgian nationalism takes on harmful forms only insofar as it is penetrated by well-known elements of Europeanism. Thus, the correct solution of the Georgian question can be achieved only under the condition of the emergence of true Georgian nationalism, that is, a special Georgian form of Eurasian ideology.

Azerbaijanis by their numbers represent the most important element of Transcaucasia. Their nationalism is highly developed, and of all the peoples of Transcaucasia, they are most constant in their Russophobic attitudes. These Russophobic sentiments go hand in hand with Turkophile sentiments, fueled by pan-Islamist and Pantoran ideas. The economic importance of their territory (with Baku oil, Nukha sericulture and Mugan cotton plantations) is so great that they cannot be separated. At the same time, it is necessary to recognize some, moreover, quite a significant dose of independence for Azerbaijanis. The decision here depends largely on the nature of Azerbaijani nationalism, and sets as the task of paramount importance the creation of a national-Azerbaijani form of Eurasianism. In this case, Shiiteism must be put up against pan-Islamism.

Three national problems of Transcaucasia (Armenian, Georgian and Azerbaijani) are intertwined with problems of foreign policy. Turkophile policy could push the Armenians in the direction of the British orientation. The same result would have been obtained when betting on Azerbaijanis. England, in any sense, will intrigue in Georgia, realizing that independent Georgia will inevitably become an English colony. And in connection with the inevitability of this intrigue, in Georgia it is unprofitable to make Armenians with Anglophiles and thus strengthen the ground for the British intrigues in Transcaucasia. But even a stake on Armenians would lead to the Turkfilian orientation of Azerbaijanis and to the Russophobic mood of Georgia. All this should be considered when establishing relations with the peoples of the Caucasus.

The complexity of the national question in the South Caucasus is aggravated by the fact that certain nationalities are at enmity between themselves. Some of the reasons for hostility are eliminated with the kuzhno-multi-parliamentary system and the associated management technique. With this system, it is possible, for example, in a number of aspects of life to differentiate management not by territory, but by nationality, which weakens the severity of disputes as belonging to one or another autonomous unit of areas with a mixed population. For example, the question of the language of instruction in schools in such areas loses all its urgency: in the same locality there are schools with different languages ​​in which instruction is given, and each of these schools is under the jurisdiction of the respective national council of public education. But, of course, there are a number of aspects of life, where management should naturally be based on a territorial, rather than a national principle. Not only the old division in the province, based on random and often artificial signs, but also the division into three main areas (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) should be abolished. The Transcaucasian ulus must be firmly divided into small districts, more or less corresponding to the former counties with the only difference that the boundaries of these districts must be more closely adjusted to the ethnographic, historical, household and economic boundaries.

The ancient motto of the imperialist statehood "Divide and rule" is applicable only where the government or the ruling nation deals with a hostile alien population. Where the task of state power is to create an organic association of the native population with the ruling nation to work together, this principle does not apply. Therefore, in the Caucasus one should not try to deepen tensions and contradictions between separate nationalities. With all the variety of shades of democratic culture and life in different regions of Georgia, it still represents a certain ethnographic whole, which cannot be artificially divided into parts. Since ancient times, the Georgian language, as the language of church and literature, has been the common language of the educated classes of Georgia, Mingrelia and Svaneti. Along with the existence of the Mingrelian and Svan languages ​​and without hindering the development of literature in these languages, one should fully resist the artificial creation of some new, historically insufficiently justified, independent and independent (in relation to Georgia) national units.

From the foregoing, however, it does not yet follow that the desire of larger nations to absorb smaller ones can be encouraged. Such aspirations exist in some frontier regions between the Transcaucasus and the North Caucasus: there is a tendency to rotate Abkhazia and South Ossetia, to otatart the southern districts of Dagestan and Zakatala district. Since in these cases we are talking about the deformation of a certain national appearance, this phenomenon should be dealt with by supporting the national resistance of the respective nationalities.

In an effort to prevent the separation of suburbs, one should take into account all the psychological factors feeding the separatist aspirations of the suburbs. At the same time, it is impossible not to notice that in simple people such aspirations are not at all developed or developed very poorly, and the main intelligentsia is the main bearer of separatist aspirations. An important role in the psychology of this intelligentsia is played by the principle “it is better to be first in the village than the last in the city”. Often the sphere of activity of some minister of the independent republic, replacing the former province, is no different from the sphere of activity of the former provincial official. But the minister is called more flattering, and, therefore, the minister holds on to the independence of his republic. When a gubernia is transferred to the position of an independent state, a number of new posts are inevitably created, which local intellectuals end up with, first of all forced to either be content with small posts of their own gubernia, or serve outside this gubernia. Finally, self-proclamation flourishes especially in areas where the local intelligentsia is relatively small and therefore the main contingent of officials was formerly composed of alien elements: when expelling an alien element that fell into the category of “foreign nationals”, in the young republic there is a lack of intelligent forces and every local It is very easy for an intellectual to make a career. Independence is very often the “class” movement of the local intelligentsia, who feel that she, as a class, has benefited from separatism. But, of course, the local intelligentsia carefully conceals this class nature of self-eminence and disguises it with “ideas”: they hastily invent “historical traditions”, local national culture, and so on. Undoubtedly, the population of this area suffers more damage from such a class-intellectual separatist. After all, this autonomy is directed, on the one hand, to artificially increasing the demand for intelligent labor, to increasing the number of people receiving government bills and living, thus, at the expense of taxes from the population, and on the other, to establishing competition of intellectuals from other areas, to reduce the field of competition, and consequently, to lower the quality of local officials. Naturally, therefore, the common people are often hostile to the separatist aspirations of the local intelligentsia and manifest centralist aspirations on which, for example, the Bolsheviks, of course, played upon the liquidation of the independence of the various republics of the Transcaucasus.

In the North Caucasus there are Kabardians, Ossetians, Chechens, small ethnic groups (Circassians, Ingush, Balkars, Karachais, Kumyks, Turukhmen and Kalmyks, and finally Cossacks).

Kabardians and Ossetians always quite firmly held the Russian orientation. Most small nations in this respect do not present any particular difficulties. Definitely Russophobes in the North Caucasus are only Chechens and Ingush. Russophobia of the Ingush is caused by the fact that after the conquest of the Caucasus by the Russians, the raids and robberies, which are always the main occupation of the Ingush, were severely punished; Meanwhile, the Ingush cannot switch over to other occupations, partly due to the atavistic non-habit of manual labor, and partly because of traditional contempt for work, which is considered to be exclusively women's work. An ancient Eastern ruler of the type of Darius or Nebuchadnezzar would simply have subjected this small predatory tribe, interfering with the peaceful and peaceful life of not only Russians, but of all his other neighbors, the total extermination, or would bring his population somewhere far away from their homeland. If such a simplified solution of the question is thrown back, then it remains only to try, through the formulation of public education and the improvement of agriculture, to destroy the old conditions of life and the traditional disregard for peaceful labor.

The Chechen question is somewhat more complicated. Since, firstly, there are five times more Chechens than Ingushes, secondly, Chechen Russophobia is caused by the fact that Chechens consider themselves financially bypassed: their best lands are taken by Cossacks and Russian settlers, and on their land Grozny oil is developed, which they do not receive any income. It is, of course, impossible to fully satisfy these Chechens' claims. Good neighborly relations, however, need to be established. This can be done again by setting public education, raising the level of agriculture and engaging Chechens in common with the Russians economic life.

According to their social structure, the peoples of the North Caucasus are divided into two groups: peoples with an aristocratic system (Kabardians, Balkars, some Circassians, Ossetians) and people with a democratic system (some Circassians, Ingushs and Chechens). On the one hand, the old group enjoyed the highest prestige of the first group, and on the other, the Muslim clergy. The Bolsheviks are systematically working on the destruction of both social systems. If they succeed in this matter, the peoples of the North Caucasus will be deprived of such groups and classes that would be authoritative in the eyes of the masses. Meanwhile, according to the characteristics of their characters, these people, without the guidance of such authoritative groups, turn into wild gangs of robbers, ready to follow any adventurer.

The North Caucasus includes the Cossack regions - Terek and Kuban. There are no special Cossack questions for the Terek region: Cossacks and non-residents live in harmony, conscious of themselves as a single nation, opposed to foreigners. On the contrary, in the Kuban region Cossack question is very acute. Cossacks and nonresident feuding with each other.

In the east and in the west of the Caucasus there are areas that cannot be fully attributed either to Transcaucasia or to the North Caucasus: in the East it is Dagestan, in the West it is Abkhazia.

The position of Dagestan is such that it needs to be granted a very wide autonomy. At the same time, Dagestan is not very popular both in its ethnic composition and in its historical division. Before the conquest of the Russians, Dagestan was divided into a number of small khanates, completely independent of each other and not subject to any supreme power. The traditions of this former crushing have been preserved in Dagestan even at this time. The administrative unification of Dagestan is strongly hampered by the lack of a common language. the former time it came to the point that official correspondence and records management were conducted in Arabic, and Russian government announcements were published in the same language. There are too many native languages: in the Andean region, 70 is spoken in different languages ​​throughout the 13 versts downstream of the Andean Koisu; total native languages ​​in Dagestan around 30. There are several "international" languages ​​that serve to communicate the highlanders of different villages with each other. These are the languages ​​of Avar and Kumyk in the north and Azerbaijani in the southern part of Dagestan. Obviously, the official language should be made exactly one of these "international". However, it does not matter which of the languages ​​to choose for this purpose. Kumyk language is “international” of almost the entire North Caucasus (from the Caspian Sea to Kabarda, inclusive), Azeri dominates most of the Transcaucasus (except the Black Sea coast) and, moreover, in Turkish Armenia, Kurdistan and Northern Persia. Both of these languages ​​are Turkic. It should be borne in mind that with the intensification of economic life, the use of "international" languages ​​takes on such a value that it crowds out the native languages: many of the villages of the southern districts of Dagestan have already completely "Azerbaijanized." It is unlikely in the interests of Russia to allow such a Turkization of Dagestan. After all, if the whole of Dagestan is Turkized, then there will be a continuous mass of Turks from Kazan to Anatolia and Northern Persia, which will create the most favorable conditions for the development of Panturanian ideas with a separatist, Russophobic bias. Dagestan should be used as a natural barrier to the turkization of this part of Eurasia. The northern and western districts of Dagestan, the situation is relatively simple. Here it should be recognized as the official language of the Avar, which is already the native language for the population of Gunibsky and Hunzaksky districts and the international language for Andiysky, Kazikumuhsky, part of Darginsky and part of Zakatalsky districts. The development of Avar literature and the press should be encouraged, and this language should be introduced into all lower schools of the listed districts, as well as into the corresponding secondary schools as a compulsory subject.

The situation is more complicated in other parts of Dagestan. Of all the South Dagestan tribes, the largest is the Kyurinsky, occupying almost the entire Kyurinsky district, the eastern half of the Samursky and the northern part of the Cuban district of the Baku province. Of all the non-Turkic native languages ​​of this part of Dagestan, the Kyurin language is the simplest and easiest; it is closely related to some other native languages ​​of the same region. Therefore, it could be made for this part of Dagestan “international” and official. Thus, in terms of language, Dagestan would turn out to be divided between two native languages, Avar and Kyur.

Abkhazia should recognize the Abkhaz official language, encourage the development of the Abkhaz intelligentsia, and instil in it the awareness of the need to combat Georgianization.
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  1. 416sd
    416sd 30 May 2013 09: 04 New
    +2
    But he warned Trubetskoy, and modern Russia went the most disadvantageous path for her. It should also be noted that at the beginning of the 21st century, much has changed, for example, this: "Strong economically, concentrating in their hands the leadership of the entire economic life of Transcaucasia ..." - today Azerbaijanis are concentrating leadership of the entire economic life of Transcaucasia.
    1. Orik
      Orik 30 May 2013 10: 21 New
      14
      What I read about the Armenians, but Trubetskoy warned about your Russophobia. The rest we wait and see. Something you "strong economically" as dogs not cut in Russia to earn money. It’s strange. smile
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 30 May 2013 11: 17 New
        +5
        Quote: Orik
        but Trubetskoy warned about your Russophobia

        So Russophobia was understandable, the Muslim state was annexed to the Christian state, that’s normal, and there was no excuse that the robbers attacked, therefore they captured, the capture was because Turkey would become lord. Another thing, according to Trubetskoy’s tone, it’s clear that he understood the reasons for Russophobia and therefore, he proposed how to reduce this to nullification. But alas, Russia relied on the Armenians and, as Trubetskoy predicted, the Western colony, and Azerbaijan also found itself on the other side.
        Quote: Orik
        Something you "strong economically" as dogs not cut in Russia to earn money. It’s strange.

        China is also economically strong, but there is a huge Chinese diaspora in the world. These are not always interconnected things, especially the majority of modern Azerbaijanis are a stream of the 90s, when Azerbaijan was weak, many of them have long been Russian citizens and their children too. This is part of Russia. .And there is no point in returning, Azerbaijani citizenship is many times more difficult to obtain and prices there are very close to Russian, therefore sending money there is unprofitable and investing there too. This distinguishes the situation from the Uzbeks and Tajiks, due to the stronger economy of Azerbaijan dnee spend and invest money in Russia, there are rules and igroki.Maksimum it in his old age to buy an apartment or cottage, which come in the summer and then not always.
        1. Fidain
          Fidain 31 May 2013 00: 44 New
          +1
          Do taogo kak Moskva (yeshcho soveckaya) reshala v konflikte za Arcax na kakuyu storonu vstavat, vi uzhe kinulis k Turkam.I ne nado delot vid chto Moskva kinula Baku i Tbilisi i poderzhala Erevan.Chto chto, no russkie vakov zakov , pitayas ne obidet neodnogo iz staron. Bud eto Soveckaya Rosiya ili Fererativnaya! Armyani svoego glavnogo soyuznika ne predayut. Ne znayu u kavo kakie cenosti, no po moimu Bakinskaya neft.eto ne zasluga azerbajancov i tyaga gruz i ekspirimentom s vsyakimi tam Zapodnomi derzhavami dozhe chesti ne delaet.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. vyatom
          vyatom 30 May 2013 13: 06 New
          0
          Quote: 416sd
          And if in Russia, against the backdrop of the Syrian question, someone thinks that Iran is unequivocally Russia’s brother and ally, then this is a mistake. Oh what. Talk to the Iranians themselves, ask what they think about Russia.


          What do they think of Russia? Russia is building their nuclear power plants. And he supports at least morally about the occupation of Iran by NATO countries. Iran must seek ways to cooperate with Russia so as not to share the fate of Iraq.
          1. 416sd
            416sd 30 May 2013 13: 21 New
            +3
            One must. But in fact it’s different. This is your opinion that Iran should. You have the right to this opinion, it is not unfounded. But the Iranian political elite does not believe that something owes Russia for the "peaceful atom in every home."
          2. P-15
            P-15 30 May 2013 14: 23 New
            +3
            Well, let's not build and finish building (since 1992, unfinished) Station, if my memory serves me right, the Germans started to build in 1975. Persians will never be allies of Russia, believe me as the person who spoke with them. Very cunning people.
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 30 May 2013 14: 42 New
              +1
              I also think that there are more "against whom we will be friends" at the moment, the principle of principle is general. BUT there are a lot of questions including the Caspian, so the paths may diverge, this is to the west. But again, this is my opinion. I do not impose.
      3. smersh70
        smersh70 1 June 2013 01: 58 New
        0
        By the way, and YOU in Germany and in the USA ..... strange ..... smile
    2. Stoic
      Stoic 30 May 2013 20: 32 New
      +9
      And the most interesting thing for me, when Trubetskoy says "Azerbaijanis", who do you mean?
      Of course, the ancestors of Azerbaijanis have an ancient history, a continuous chain of their historical path goes into the most ancient times exactly as much as any other people on earth. However, if we are talking about the current Azerbaijani ethnic community, then any qualified historian will say that the Azerbaijani people arose recently in 1918 on the ruins of the Russian Empire, when a political entity called the "Azerbaijan Republic" appears. (Then it becomes the Azerbaijan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic as part of the USSR) Moreover, at that time the concept of “Azerbaijani” did not imply any ethnic meaning, just like the concept of “Dagestan” in the word “Dagestan Republic” did not imply any nationality, as well as the name “ Mountain Republic ".
      Only from this moment can we talk about the beginning of the formation of the "Azerbaijani people". Of course, the ethnic substrate from which the “Azerbaijani people” began to take shape from the indicated time existed long before this event. This substrate was represented by many ethnic groups, also having their own history of origin. By the way, before this revolution, there were no such people - “Azerbaijanis” on the territory of the Russian Empire. They were then called "Persians", "Türks", "Caucasian Tatars", "Terkemen", etc. In general, the name “Azerbaijan” was a geographical concept and, by the way, it did not refer to the territory on which the Republic of Azerbaijan currently lives and lives, but to the territory of Northern Iran, where the so-called Iranian Azerbaijan.

      The territory of the present Azerbaijan Republic in historical sources was called differently in different historical eras (such names as Albania (Alpan), Arran, Shirvan, etc. are known), but never in the past, outside the XX century, this region was not called in any source "Azerbaijan".

      Of course, the "Türks", from whom the current Azerbaijanis proudly lead their ethnic origin, are a general category of a number of ancient and glorious ethnic groups that made a well-known and very significant contribution to the historical deeds of mankind. Azerbaijanis can honestly and fairly consider themselves their descendants, and they can be considered their ancestors.
      But here, some important reservations are required.

      Firstly, the current Azerbaijani nation is at least half, if not two-thirds, composed of people from ethnic groups of non-Turkic origin: Iranian (Parsis, Kurds, Tats, Talysh, etc.), Dagestanians (Lezghins, Avars, Tsakhurs, Udins etc.) and others.

      Secondly, the Turkic component, which, in the end, turned out to be dominant in the sense of linguistic community and served as the basis for the formation of this new nationality in the future, appears in the region of modern Azerbaijan, only in the XI century after the birth of Christ or more than 4 centuries from the beginning Muslim chronology.
      1. Xay
        Xay 31 May 2013 12: 01 New
        -1
        That's right, for proponents of "pan-Turkism" this is certainly not an argument. You are right in your article.
        In modern Azerbaijan, national ideas are strong, just the culprits of all troubles. This is Russia. True, they forget about what was done and how it happened. It is a pity, but just a lot in common with Russia, and not with other countries.
        at one time, Russia was proposing an alliance to Azerbaijan, such an offer was rejected. Heading towards Turkey, in fact, Turkey .... impedes the development of Azerbaijan.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 1 June 2013 15: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Xay
          at one time, Russia was proposing an alliance to Azerbaijan, such an offer was rejected.

          That wasn’t !!
          And now then, when our enemy in the Union with Russia, we have nothing to do there!
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 1 June 2013 02: 00 New
        +1
        ... each time they write an answer to you, but everything is numb to you - read the previous answers and calm down, ......
      3. Yarbay
        Yarbay 1 June 2013 15: 36 New
        +3
        Quote: Stoic
        Of course, the ancestors of Azerbaijanis have an ancient history,


        P.Kerop Patkanov. Van inscriptions and their significance for the history of Western Asia. St. Petersburg. 1981, p. 36-37. From the book of Magdy Neumann "Armenia". St. Petersburg, 1899.
        "Armenia, as a state, did not play any significant role in the history of mankind, its name was a geographical term widespread by Armenians, it was a place for the resolution of disputes of powerful states - Assyrians, Medes, Iranians, Greeks, Mongols, Russians ..."
        "Immediately after the conclusion of the Turkmenchay Treaty (February 10, 1828) under the leadership of Paskevich, 40 thousand Armenians from Iran and 90 thousand Armenians from Turkey were resettled in Azerbaijan. In total, more than 1828 million 1896 thousand were resettled from Iran and Turkey in 1 - 200 Armenians, of which 985 thousand 460 people were stationed in the western lands of Azerbaijan, and the rest in Karabakh and Elizavetpol (Ganja) provinces. After the beautification, the Armenians began to oust the Azerbaijani Turks, they also carried out mass pogroms and robberies, as well as massively destroyed a huge number of people. "
        The historian A. Anninsky wrote at the end of the XNUMXth century:
        "Due to the fact that nothing has survived that would testify to the former political power and importance of the culture of the ancient Armenians, it should be assumed that they did not possess either one or the other. Apparently they were always a small and wild tribe. They never possessed a complete political independence. The glaring poverty of the art of the Armenians is connected with this. We don’t have to talk about science at all. The Armenians have not created anything original over the entire period of their existence. "
        Researcher V. Elikhovskaya wrote:
        “Armenians scattered all over the world adopt the customs, clothes, traditions of the peoples with whom they live together. In Turkey, you can’t distinguish an Armenian from a Turk, in Persia an Armenian is a typical Persian.
        A.S. Griboedov wrote to Mazarevich in a report on September 11-13, 1819: “What a vile offspring these Armenians are. None of them wanted to know me, but they always whisper in our ears that we are their future patrons. A good protege. They sell us to the same Persians who are ready to crucify and cook them with any sauce. "
        In 1914, the Armenian historian Gevorg Aslan in his book "Armenia and Armenians" wrote:
        "The Armenians did not have statehood. They are not connected by the feeling of the Motherland and are not connected by political ties. Armenian patriotism is associated only with the place of residence." The chimerical idea of ​​reconstructing "Great Armenia", which as a state never existed, is a nationwide concept that united all the highways of the world.
        The Armenian journalist R. Acharyan in his book "Turkic borrowings in the Armenian language" wrote that more than 4200 Turkic words are used in the Armenian language.
        H. Abovyan (XIX century) wrote:
        "... in our language half of the words are Turkic or Farsi words."
        The father of Armenian history Movses Khorenatsi (Moses Khorensky) in the XNUMXth century spoke of his fellow tribesmen:
        "I want to point out the hardheartedness, as well as the arrogance of our people, ...
        - rejecting the good, changing the truth ...
        people are obstinate and criminal ..
        -SHOWER WHO DOESN’T BELIEVE GOD!
        -you have done angry and in your lodges did not bring repentance
        -you laid the slaughter and lawlessness, and those who trust in the gentlemen despised
        - therefore, they will find on you the networks of the one you did not recognize and the prey for which you chased will make you their prey, and you will end up in the same networks ... "
        -This is absolutely true, nothing has changed since the 5th century!
        1. The comment was deleted.
  2. omsbon
    omsbon 30 May 2013 09: 34 New
    +4
    The clever man was N.S. Trubetskoy! In many ways, he is right.
    1. Sol_jah
      Sol_jah 30 May 2013 15: 52 New
      +3
      I completely agree. and his writings to study our power
  3. Sergeant Air Force
    Sergeant Air Force 30 May 2013 09: 51 New
    +3
    Very interesting article. The roots of the current problems are visible. thank
    1. Akhtuba73
      Akhtuba73 30 May 2013 23: 06 New
      +2
      What are the roots? It seems that these words are written literally now. Moreover, a very intelligent person ... but this is what betrays his historical isolation - now there are few such smart people.
      I thought - it would be great to have such a forum member here!
      1. i12345
        i12345 31 May 2013 20: 46 New
        -1
        I absolutely agree with you - Trubetskoy’s ethnographic research is very relevant !!!
  4. Suvorov000
    Suvorov000 30 May 2013 10: 04 New
    +7
    It’s not for nothing that they say, teach history, everything was once there, you just need to look more carefully
  5. kNow
    kNow 30 May 2013 10: 27 New
    -4
    Such a mess that you can’t figure it out without 100 grams ...
    1. evfrat
      30 May 2013 17: 13 New
      +5
      Are you talking about the Caucasus? So there, with a hundred grams, any good business begins ... Chachi or wine, to whom is closer ...
  6. datur
    datur 30 May 2013 13: 24 New
    0
    alas, but all these ,, citizens ,, - understand only one thing ------- FORCE !!!
    1. Sol_jah
      Sol_jah 30 May 2013 15: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: datur
      alas, but all these ,, citizens ,, - understand only one thing ------- FORCE !!!

      you are new to the mentality of these peoples. I think Nikolai Sergeyevich suggested definitely the best option
    2. Fidain
      Fidain 31 May 2013 00: 52 New
      +1
      Ne vazmus vsex opravdat, no Rossiya dolzhna bit garantom bezapasnosti i ekonomicheskovo razvitiya, chto bi narodi po menshe ili bole uyazvimie, podtyagivolis pod Yeyo krilo.Tak chto vsegda nado smotor sz
  7. Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 May 2013 14: 01 New
    +3
    90 years ago, a man understood everything.
  8. Sars
    Sars 30 May 2013 14: 29 New
    +2
    Quote: vyatom
    Quote: 416sd
    And if in Russia, against the backdrop of the Syrian question, someone thinks that Iran is unequivocally Russia’s brother and ally, then this is a mistake. Oh what. Talk to the Iranians themselves, ask what they think about Russia.


    You're lying, dear! Was repeatedly in Iran. The attitude of Iranians towards Russians is very good, much better than in Dagestan or Ukraine.
    1. berimor
      berimor 30 May 2013 22: 15 New
      +3
      Єh, dear! You have a very poor idea of ​​the Muslim East! These people can say honey-sweet words in your face, and hold a stone behind their back. By the way, in the east, the guests were almost always treated well (this guest or tourist generates income), but incorrect in their concepts, he is also incorrect and corresponding to him. That is, they just endure it.
  9. Sars
    Sars 30 May 2013 14: 35 New
    +1
    Proceedings of Trubetskoy N.S. we are forgotten, and he, for example, completely refutes the modern theory of the reasons for the formation of Moscow as the capital of the Moscow principality and the Russian state.
    1. uwzek
      uwzek 22 June 2013 15: 44 New
      0
      Please take a look at the history of the Russian problem of the Caucasian problem taking place over the past almost 90 years ... Partaigenoss Vissarionych. for sure, he studied the article of N.S. Trubetskoy - the Chechen-Ingush from the Caucasus were deported. The great President V.V. Putin also acts in line with the prince’s instructions - South Ossetia and Abkhazia are not Georgian at all, Chechnya pays money from the budget ... I’m saying that the Russian authorities’s mentoring-colonial approach to the Caucasus and Transcaucasia has always been the level of views of Prince Trubetskoy. Insignificant deviations account for the notorious period of stagnation of the USSR ... Since such a policy does not bring any particular successes (or, perhaps, unsuccesses), then his excellency may have been mistaken in evaluations?
  10. P-15
    P-15 30 May 2013 14: 50 New
    +5
    Quote: SarS
    Quote: vyatom
    Quote: 416sd
    And if in Russia, against the backdrop of the Syrian question, someone thinks that Iran is unequivocally Russia’s brother and ally, then this is a mistake. Oh what. Talk to the Iranians themselves, ask what they think about Russia.


    You're lying, dear! Was repeatedly in Iran. The attitude of Iranians towards Russians is very good, much better than in Dagestan or Ukraine.
    Naive,))) you should never confuse tourism with emigration.
  11. Lechik2000
    Lechik2000 30 May 2013 20: 47 New
    +1
    This is DOG - all this we are now observing in the Caucasus.
  12. P-15
    P-15 30 May 2013 22: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: Stoic
    And the most interesting thing for me, when Trubetskoy says "Azerbaijanis", who do you mean?
    Those on whose lands a state called Armenia was created for the Armenians.
    It is now clear???
    1. evfrat
      30 May 2013 23: 14 New
      +5
      Would you like to say that the Turkic ethnic group is older than the Armenian one? At least in the Caucasus? If I tell you that the Slavs are older than Rome, will you abandon me with a bull’s heart?
      1. Fidain
        Fidain 31 May 2013 00: 59 New
        -2
        "Rome" eto chistoi vodi propaganda bila velichiya yevo i moshch, pisali istoriyu greki i rimleni.i obdelit sebya v etix raskazax nu ni kak ne mogli)) tak chto vse ostalnie norodi na golovu xuzhe ix.da yes gto govorov Afinci shchetali Makedoniyu chut li ne varvorskim gasudarstvom ...
    2. Fidain
      Fidain 31 May 2013 00: 56 New
      -1
      Ti voobshe kinizhku derzhal v ruka po istorii, anu posmotri kogdaarmyana yezichnie plemena sozdavali Urartu, voevali s Asericomi i kogda vi "" "" "" "" "azerbajanci" "& qu
      ot; "" "" "" "" poyevilis na karte mira ili voobshe knigax po istorii.
      1. evfrat
        31 May 2013 01: 20 New
        +6
        If you are so ancient, where is your alphabet? And I do not catch something between the Assyrians (if you had them in mind) and the Turks ...
        And I do not care what Rome you had there, I'm talking about time intervals and the resettlement of peoples at that time. Maybe you confuse Rum and Rome? These are different states.
        1. Fidain
          Fidain 31 May 2013 17: 05 New
          -1
          dear, if your question was the address he told me, then I am Armenian and I think you know that we have an alphabet that was created in 405 AD and my answer was to an opponent from the << fraternal republic >>
          1. evfrat
            31 May 2013 17: 20 New
            +4
            And my question is addressed to him. It is unlikely that I would ask about the Armenian script.
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 June 2013 11: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: evfrat
              And my question is addressed to him. It is unlikely that I would ask about the Armenian script.

              And what to ask about her?))))
              the Armenian alphabet is flavored by the Ethiopians !!))
              Apparently they thought that the Ethiopians would die out, then they would say that they miraculously invented it))
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. P-15
        P-15 31 May 2013 08: 37 New
        +1
        Remember the son, in that school in which you studied I worked as a director. And you don’t have to tell me about books. But you read the “books” exactly. Do you understand?
        1. evfrat
          31 May 2013 17: 31 New
          -2
          "Remember my son, in that school where you studied I worked as a director. And I don’t need to tell you about books. But you just read" books "Do you understand?"

          One thing is clear to me: that if you were a director in those days when I studied, then today you should have been thoroughly pulled by mold by an old man.
          1. P-15
            P-15 4 June 2013 09: 30 New
            +2
            Actually, the answer was not addressed to you) - and it doesn’t have to be taken literally. It is strange that you did not understand what I wanted to say with these words.
      3. vikingost
        vikingost 1 February 2015 03: 19 New
        +1
        urartu nikakogo otnoweniyu k armeniyu neimeet..xvatit uje chiganam indiyskem kocevnikam armyanam falsificirovat istoriyu regiona
  13. combatpilot
    combatpilot 30 May 2013 22: 19 New
    0
    Sometimes I get the impression that this valuable web resource becomes the "courtyard" of AzAgitProp. It's time to erase bookmarks.
    1. P-15
      P-15 31 May 2013 08: 38 New
      +2
      I see you in Estonia too, the campaign erased their house books.
      1. combatpilot
        combatpilot 1 June 2013 00: 06 New
        +2
        It’s ridiculous. Whatever the child would entertain, if only he would not cry. Continue in the same spirit.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 1 June 2013 02: 04 New
        +1
        well, nothing. soon the Armenians of Estonia will prove that they lived there for centuries., and Estonia their land, because they do not have their Alvavita ..... laughing
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 1 June 2013 02: 03 New
      +2
      and you do not confuse your pocket with the state ...... laughing as one hero said ........
    3. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 June 2013 12: 11 New
      +3
      Quote: combatpilot
      Sometimes I get the impression that this valuable web resource becomes the "courtyard" of AzAgitProp. It's time to erase bookmarks.

      Like yesterday I registered, and today vague suspicions are already prevailing))))))) ??
      1. combatpilot
        combatpilot 1 June 2013 21: 18 New
        -3
        Alibek, or whatever it really is, is longer. Becks, khans, shahs - you will not remember everyone. I do not care about ratings and all that. It’s a pity that your brother’s good resource is turning into trash. It would be necessary to bring to administrators the option to hide comments. And while you flaunt epaulettes. You look useful.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 1 June 2013 23: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: combatpilot
          Alibek, or whatever it really is, is longer. Becks, khans, shahs - you will not remember everyone. I do not care about ratings and all that. It’s a pity that your brother’s good resource is turning into trash. It would be necessary to bring to administrators the option to hide comments. And while you flaunt epaulettes. You look useful.

          On this site you use several nicknames, which is prohibited by the rules!
          But these are purely Armenian methods that you use, nothing new!
          If this site is garbage for you, then good riddance!
          and you have Allahverdyany, Melikyany, Shahverdyany)))))))
          plagiarism))), too, all neupunish))))
          1. combatpilot
            combatpilot 2 June 2013 03: 42 New
            -4
            Evidence in hand and run to admins. My friend, do not be shy. Do you remember the Armenian tricks? Little is compared with the Azerbaijani "receptions" such as Sumgait, Baku, Maraghi.
            You are barbarians, alien barbarians, always they were and will be. Neither the Soviet government, nor the petrodollars, nor the Trubetskoys and the Gumilevs could make you human, whitewash or calm you down. The thirst for blood will always be in your hearts. If you were at least 5% the same warriors as your ancestors, the neighbors would have to be tight. And so we are calm. You have zero chance. But Ilham Aliyev seems to have made the same mistake as Elchibey did. Let's see how Russia will respond.
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 2 June 2013 07: 45 New
              +5
              Quote: combatpilot
              Evidence in hand and run to admins. My friend, do not be shy

              Why do you need proof, dear ???
              You registered the 28th brake, and you say that you write here a long time !!
              As for Sumgait, there are also Armenian receptions, I would say nothing, the organizer of the events was again the Armenians, there, look in my comments for recordings of Grigoryan’s interrogation !!
              Quote: combatpilot
              Neither the Soviet government, nor the petrodollars, nor the Trubetskoys with the Gumilevs could make you human, whitewash or calm you down

              this is exactly about you !!!
              Khorenatsi was damn right)))

              The father of Armenian history Movses Khorenatsi (Moses Khorensky) in the XNUMXth century spoke of his fellow tribesmen:
              "I want to point out the hardheartedness, as well as the arrogance of our people, ...
              - rejecting the good, changing the truth ...
              people are obstinate and criminal ..
              -SHOWER WHO DOESN’T BELIEVE GOD!
              -you have done angry and in your lodges did not bring repentance
              -you laid the slaughter and lawlessness, and those who trust in the gentlemen despised
              - therefore, they will find on you the networks of the one you did not recognize and the prey for which you
              Quote: combatpilot
              And so we are calm. You have zero chance.
              And you have no choice))))))))))))
              You are the subject of the situation, not the object !!)))
              your country and population are nervous and rightly so))
              but as for the soldiers, I have not seen or heard them among yours!
              You are ordinary barbarians who know how to kill women and children and mock them!
              General Mayevsky wrote correctly about your people!
              Memoirs of a Russian diplomat, General Mayevsky. From the book "Massacres Perpetrated by Armenians"
              "Has anyone heard of the national heroism of the Armenians? Where are the names of their battles for freedom carved? Nowhere! Because, the" heroes "of the Armenians were more executioners of their people than savior."
              1. combatpilot
                combatpilot 2 June 2013 13: 43 New
                -1
                Do not tell comrade. Grigoryan, Mayevsky, Movses Khorenatsi ... Why not Christ?

                Poor General Mayevsky, everything in the world can not calm down, writes and publishes books, not somewhere else, but in "democratic Azerbaijan."

                Grigoryan remembered. He left the name of his Armenian father, an Azerbaijani murderer, convicted by the bodies of the Soviet prosecutor’s office.
                And who was Alibek in Baku? And in Maraga? What to ask you.

                We have already made our choice. From 88-94 The result of the selection is you and your like.

                Evidence of murder and child abuse in the studio.

                What is the difference when I registered? Almost then the same as you, but I know about the site for a long time and visit it from the first day. The proof of several accounts is the date of registration ?! Ha!

                But generally bored with you. The same insertions from the Beginner's Agitator's Guide, the same long texts, the same writing style, the same arguments. The same lies and decay.

                The names are different, the place of residence, too, the words are the same. A sort of collective cyber -... add yourself what you want.

                P.S. Particularly impressed with the bold font. Gives the appearance of truth right?

                Have to seriously deal with this resource. Sensation of a surgeon about to open an abscess.

                Not saying goodbye!
                1. smersh70
                  smersh70 2 June 2013 21: 50 New
                  +1
                  about maragua - read on vesti.az .... the memoirs of Nazim Bayramov, the commander of the tank that was there and described in detail that day ................
            2. smersh70
              smersh70 2 June 2013 21: 47 New
              +1
              You are barbarians, alien barbarians, you have always been and will be a fortress
              you are Estonian, you are our Armenian)))) .. as the most ancient, why you didn’t keep the towers and walls of the fortress of Erivan, you would show the whole world right now that you are the autochones of the Caucasus, put signs with Armenian alvavit .......
              but about Russia - you always wait for the Power of this world to be shown to you, and all the time, the power of this world, as you are being used up and thrown away ........ you’re lying))))) laughing
  14. P-15
    P-15 31 May 2013 08: 31 New
    +5
    Quote: evfrat
    Would you like to say that the Turkic ethnic group is older than the Armenian one? At least in the Caucasus? If I tell you that the Slavs are older than Rome, will you abandon me with a bull’s heart?

    Quote: Fidain
    "Rome" eto chistoi vodi propaganda bila velichiya yevo i moshch, pisali istoriyu greki i rimleni.i obdelit sebya v etix raskazax nu ni kak ne mogli)) tak chto vse ostalnie norodi na golovu xuzhe ix.da yes gto govorov Afinci shchetali Makedoniyu chut li ne varvorskim gasudarstvom ...

    Quote: Fidain
    Ti voobshe kinizhku derzhal v ruka po istorii, anu posmotri kogdaarmyana yezichnie plemena sozdavali Urartu, voevali s Asericomi i kogda vi "" "" "" "" "azerbajanci" "& qu

    ot; "" "" "" "" poyevilis na karte mira ili voobshe knigax po istorii.

    Quote: evfrat
    If you are so ancient, where is your alphabet? And I do not catch something between the Assyrians (if you had them in mind) and the Turks ...
    And I do not care what Rome you had there, I'm talking about time intervals and the resettlement of peoples at that time. Maybe you confuse Rum and Rome? These are different states.
    Look how excited they are)))) What, does it really hurt your eyes?
    1. evfrat
      31 May 2013 10: 57 New
      +4
      To the question about the alphabet, can you answer something intelligible?

      And no one was alarmed, just carries Azerbaijani chauvinism. I want to ventilate.
      1. P-15
        P-15 31 May 2013 11: 42 New
        +1
        You probably wanted to say Armenian. We do not have chauvinism in relation to other nations. The alphabet is Latin, Ethiopian among the Armenians, and what should we do now, do it ... and don’t live ??
        1. Fidain
          Fidain 31 May 2013 17: 11 New
          -1
          ignoramus if you could not create your alphabet, then do not dare and insult the works of our sages
          1. evfrat
            31 May 2013 17: 39 New
            -1
            They just didn't need the alphabet. Do you imagine a mobile yurt library? There are no such findings in archeology. The letter was created by settled peoples to store knowledge in libraries. What libraries do nomads have? And here is what one of our opponent’s fellow tribesmen writes:

            ... "Now I want to dwell on myself, that is, on Azerbaijan, Shirvan, and Derbend Turkmenistan. Although I do not consider the Republic of Azerbaijan and the so-called" Armenia "to be the Caucasus, but still part of the Republic of Azerbaijan is located on the southern slope of the Caucasus Range . Here, as you know, The Turkic people did not form, but already formed, migrated from Central Asiadisplacing the natives. Respectively, Turkmens in this territory, like your humble servant and ally, descendants of the colonialists "...

            Posted by Türkmən Bayındır at 12: 31
            Labels: Azerbaijan, Dagestan, History, Karachay-Balkaria

            So they themselves do not deny what history knows - they came from the steppes and crowded out the local population, among which, naturally, the Armenians. Notice how derogatory the name of the Armenian state is written. And after that they still say that they are not chauvinists ...
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 June 2013 12: 39 New
              +3
              Quote: evfrat
              So they themselves do not deny what history knows - they came from the steppes and crowded out the local population, among which, naturally, the Armenians.

              So the Armenians do not deny, like all serious scholars, that the Armenians came from Fricia !!
              Also the Caucasus had little relationship!
              Or they also drove someone out, although it is in question that they were there at all !!
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 2 June 2013 21: 52 New
                +1
                Comrade Judge !!!!!!!!! and they don’t have any intention of crouching in the Caucasus. laughing , give them Antarctica, the southernmost Armenian land)))))
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 1 June 2013 23: 41 New
              +5
              1) The Türks used their runic writing. Monuments with runic Turkic ("Orkhon-Yenisei") writing - a bunch, from Mongolia to Europe. After the Turks gained the secret of making paper as a result of the Battle of Talas, and under the influence of Islam, the Turks switched to Arabic script (other alphabets were used along the way, for example, Sogdian script).
              2) Yurts - among those Türks who wandered. This is a significant mass of the Turkic population of steppe Eurasia. However, in addition to the steppe inhabitants, there were sedentary Turks who were engaged in science even in the early Middle Ages. A native of Otrar (modern Kazakhstan) Al-Farabi was called in Europe "the second Teacher of the world" (after Aristotle), a native of Biruni (then Kiyat, now located in Karakalpakstan) Abu Raikhan Biruni wrote about the sphericity of the Earth 500 years before Copernicus and that the Earth revolves around the Sun, a native of Khorezm (present-day Uzbekistan) Al-Khorezmi was an outstanding mathematician, created the concept of "algebra", and in Europe the word "algorithm" appeared on his behalf, etc. These are the Turks. Not Persians, not Arabs, not Tajiks. Therefore, it is foolish to joke in the style of a "yurt library." I don’t know where the observatories were in Armenia (maybe they were, I just don’t know), but in Turkic Central Asia observatories existed for a very long time (you can recall at least the Ulugbek observatories).
              In Otrar (present-day Kazakhstan), which was destroyed as a result of a military conflict between Genghis Khan and the ruler of the Khorezm Shah Muhammad in 1219, there was the largest library in the world, which in the ancient world was called the "second after Alexandria."
              2) The influence of the Turks on the Armenian culture was quite noticeable. You can recall a lot of books written in the Armenian alphabet but in Turkicthat are still stored in Matenadaran (I hope I wrote it correctly).
              3) Azerbaijanis - a people formed from two main components - the indigenous poly-lingual population of the Caucasus + alien Turks. They have every right to call themselves autochthonous residents and at the same time consider themselves descendants of the Türks (at least culturally). There is no paradox. This people has developed in two parts. Just like the Kazakhs, a nation formed of Iranian-speaking Scythians (Saks) and Turkic tribes (including those tribes that came from present-day Mongolia in the 13th century with Genghis Khan).
              In this regard, one can recall the Turks of Turkey, who formed (to a greater extent) from the inhabitants of Byzantium (Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, Jews) and Oguz Turks.
              4) To quote the words of an unknown Internet user is stupid. Firstly, this is his personal subjective opinion, and secondly, maybe he is not an Azerbaijani at all.
              5) A good topic for research is how many Türks have joined the Armenian ethnic group, given the constant presence of the Türkic conquerors in the Caucasus, and remembering that many Armenian surnames are uniquely of Türkic origin (or, in extreme cases, Iranian-Arabic, but brought by the Türks) - Dzhigarkhan -yan, Mirzo-yan, Janibek-yan, Tariverdi-yev, Karakhan-yan, Kochar-yan, Murad-yanov, Allahverd-yan, Sarukhan-s, Shakhnazar-s, Aslan-yan, etc. In this regard, it is foolish to deny the relationship between the Turks and the peoples of the Caucasus-Transcaucasia (including Armenians). Yes, the Armenians were ruled by the Turks, yes, the Karabakh problem is a stumbling block between Armenians and Azerbaijanis, but to consider that Azerbaijanis is not an autochthonous population of the region or that the Turkic culture is supposedly primitive is extremely stupid. Even during the Great Patriotic War, the USSR did not "guess" to humiliate German culture and its contribution to Russian history. Bach, Heine and Kant remained Bach, Heine and Kant. With all the consequences.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 2 June 2013 00: 21 New
                +5
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                With all that it implies.

                As always, you gave a very interesting help!
                I always read your comments with interest, they are always detailed and I learn a lot of interesting and new things!
              2. evfrat
                2 June 2013 11: 20 New
                +4
                On the one hand, I am glad that the answer is still received to the question about the alphabet. It’s a pity that it’s not from our opponents, the Turks. Moreover, my question was a dirty trick, and they fell for it. Instead of giving a detailed answer, like yours, they rushed to accuse the Armenians of theft and to translate the discussion into the mainstream of "D.U.P.A.K. himself." This position is a teenager or a market bully. Not to admit the obvious and to refute well-known facts is strange, at least. The alphabet, of course, is a good thing, but it is not always a sign of antiquity or culture of one or another people. An example is the Abkhaz. They, as you know their alphabet appeared quite late. Moreover, no one will argue that the Abkhazians are one of the most ancient peoples of the Caucasus. Not all learned ethnographers agree on the origin of the Abkhaz and their origins. It’s just that during the time period that is causing controversy, the Abkhaz nobility easily spoke Greek, later the early Georgian script (revised Armenian) was used. I would like to remain in the “neutral zone” in this s.r.a.ch.e., but more often it is the Turkic-speaking camp that has to be cooled. What I try, not always subtly, to do.
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 1 June 2013 16: 13 New
            +4
            Quote: Fidain
            ignoramus if you could not create your alphabet, then do not dare and insult the works of our sages

            Good oh, such as you said your sage)))))))

            Father of Armenian history Movses Khorenatsi (Moses Khorensky) in the XNUMXth century spoke of his fellow tribesmen:
            "I want to point out the hardheartedness, as well as the arrogance of our people, ...
            - rejecting the good, betraying the truth...
            people are obstinate and criminal ..
            -SHOWER WHO DOESN’T BELIEVE GOD!
            -you have done angry and in your lodges did not bring repentance
            -you laid the slaughter and lawlessness, and those who trust in the gentlemen despised
            - therefore, they will find on you the networks of the one you did not recognize and the prey for which you chased will make you their prey, and you will end up in the same networks ... "
            1. Arminian power
              Arminian power 3 June 2013 15: 35 New
              +1
              EY MAMED XOROSH TUFTU GNAT wassat
              1. P-15
                P-15 4 June 2013 09: 38 New
                +1
                Oh,)) Anika the warrior was drawn, boy, do you have legs? Well then, get out of here, and not just go, but go and go.
        2. evfrat
          31 May 2013 17: 27 New
          +1
          "You probably wanted to say Armenian. We don’t have chauvinism in relation to other nations. The alphabet is Latin, the Armenians are Ethiopian, and what do we do now, don’t ... and don’t live ??"

          Well, it's up to you to decide whether you want it or not. It just turns out about the alphabet that you have no intelligible answer. Do you think in Turkish, write in Latin, read Cyrillic. Some vinaigrette directly.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 2 June 2013 11: 55 New
            +1
            yes)) you think everything in your own Armenian, the most ancient one, and even when the US astronaut’s foot entered the earth of the moon, there he was greeted with inscriptions in Armenian
          2. P-15
            P-15 3 June 2013 09: 28 New
            +1
            Well, let's think and express my thoughts, I can still a couple of languages, but about the alphabet, what do you better think, write and speak the alphabet that the Greeks invented. Or am I wrong?
    2. Fidain
      Fidain 31 May 2013 17: 07 New
      -4
      no stupidity and no literacy. when propaganda is passed off as history and truth
  15. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 31 May 2013 17: 38 New
    +5
    Trubetskoy thoroughly versed in psychology, ethnography, linguistics, and therefore his works are read easily and convincingly. He is one of the "fathers" of Eurasianism. He talked about the fact that Russians, despite their Slavic origin, are of a psychological type - Türks (Turans). By and large, he is absolutely right, and apparently this is the root of the fact that the Russian and Turanian peoples (Turks, Ugro-Finns and Mongols) coexist perfectly with each other, and think almost the same way. On this topic there is more than interesting work by Trubetskoy "On the Turanian element in Russian culture." If someone was impressed by the depth of ethno-analytics by Nikolai Sergeyevich, then I dare to advise you to read Trubetskoy's work I mentioned. However, the rest of his works are very curious and, most importantly, completely relevant.
  16. Mengele Ivan
    Mengele Ivan 1 June 2013 00: 29 New
    0
    Ehhh, it’s a pity that now there is no such leader as Stalin was !!!
  17. IllI4
    IllI4 1 June 2013 16: 03 New
    0
    Almost a hundred years have passed - and practically nothing has changed in the Caucasus for the better. Sadness ..
  18. Lyria
    Lyria 1 June 2013 23: 02 New
    +6
    From a letter of A.S. Griboedov to the Russian emperor about Armenians:
    "Your Excellency, do not allow the settlement of Armenians in the central Russian lands. They are from such a tribe that after living for several decades, they will start shouting to the whole world that this is the land of our fathers and great-grandfathers."
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 2 June 2013 11: 57 New
        +4
        what's the difference -how it got wrong. the main one wrote))))))))))))
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 2 June 2013 00: 06 New
      +3
      I don’t know that Griboedov wrote about the Armenians, but he, in my opinion, did not favor all non-Russians at all. He is a wonderful and talented writer (I do not quit at all), but he is still a chauvinist. And in general, the Iranians were not just furious, having defeated the Russian embassy and killed Griboedov.

      Z.Y. Kipling is also a great writer and at the same time a convinced racist.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 2 June 2013 00: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        He is a wonderful and talented writer (I do not quit at all), but he is still a chauvinist. And in general, the Iranians were not just furious, having defeated the Russian embassy and killed Griboedov.

        I agree!
        He was a man who served his country and there wasn’t much difference for him in relation to other nations!
      2. Lyria
        Lyria 4 June 2013 02: 12 New
        +4
        There was a difficult situation there, there were many reasons, one of them was short: two Armenians escaped from captivity and were accepted by Griboedov. The Persians demanded extradition, then went on the assault.
    3. combatpilot
      combatpilot 2 June 2013 15: 32 New
      +2
      Learn to falsify correctly. Griboedov could not write to the Emperor "Your Excellency." The most gracious sovereign, or Your Imperial Majesty. Another gross fake.
      1. Stoic
        Stoic 3 June 2013 11: 13 New
        0
        Another one. And the roughest, like all the rest, "Solid Bread")))
      2. Lyria
        Lyria 4 June 2013 02: 20 New
        +3
        Maybe so, but whoever wrote this is noticed correctly. After the events in Sumgait, and then in Baku, a lot of Armenians came to us for permanent residence in Stavropol and they contemptuously and seriously claimed that the whole south of Russia once belonged to the Armenians and therefore we Russians should bring down their lands. Now they have calmed down, an even more unbridled force has come - the Dagestanis.
        1. Stoic
          Stoic 4 June 2013 13: 25 New
          -1
          Well, if we talk about the Stavropol Territory, I don’t know where you are from, but I myself have spent quite a lot of time in Kislovodsk and Pyatigorsk. The Armenians lived there long before the 90s of the 20th century, when events occurred in Sumgait 88 and Baku 90.
          Do not forget that the Russians not so long ago appeared on these lands. Karachays, Circassians, Circassians, Laks, Kumyks - a lot of nationalities lived there since ancient times. When you say "Dagestanis" who do you mean? Such a nation, "Dagestan", as well as "Azerbaijani" does not exist in nature.
          Griboedov did not write this. Why do you ascribe these words to him ????
          Just to say?
          1. Lyria
            Lyria 5 June 2013 00: 43 New
            +2
            I live in a small town 80 km from Stavropol, wrote the way it was. Of course, the Dagestanis who came to us did not ask for a good life in their homeland, they didn’t ask for nationality. In the southern regions of the region, indeed, there are a lot of highlanders, in the northern and central there were none. Turkmens, Tatars, Kalmyks lived, and then, according to the resettlement program, in the 18th and early 19th centuries Russians and Ukrainians arrived.
            1. Stoic
              Stoic 5 June 2013 09: 41 New
              -1
              According to the resettlement program in the 18th, early 19th century

              Is that what you call the Caucasian wars of the Russian Empire? Relocation Program)))
              1. Lyria
                Lyria 5 June 2013 14: 59 New
                0
                Wars were fought by the Cossacks and the army, but not by settlers. I think you know this.
              2. smersh70
                smersh70 5 June 2013 17: 27 New
                +1
                here you have the resettlement program)))))
          2. smersh70
            smersh70 5 June 2013 17: 26 New
            +4
            A protest rally was held in front of the Russian embassy in Yerevan, where protesters chanted the slogans “Russia, get out of Armenia”, “Gazprom, get out of Armenia,” virtualaz.org reports with reference to the Armenian media.

            Protesters are opposed to raising natural gas prices. They submitted a petition to the Russian Embassy.

            Participant of the action Argist Kiviryan said that this is not the only step of Russia aimed at weakening Armenia: “Russia is selling weapons to Azerbaijan, which is at war with Azerbaijan.”
  19. smersh70
    smersh70 2 June 2013 11: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    They have every right to call themselves autochthonous residents and at the same time consider themselves descendants of the Türks (at least culturally).

    how did you make them ..... thanks friend ....... well done !!!!!!!
    1. Stoic
      Stoic 3 June 2013 11: 16 New
      -2
      They - Azerbaijanis - have every right to say that they appeared in the 11th century on the territory of the highlands in the form of motley nomadic tribes.
      What kind of autochthons can they be if there is still no such nation of Azerbaijanis?
      Autochthons - those who lived on this earth long before the nomad rabble
      Avars, Udins, Lezgins, Tsukhurs, Rutulis, Tat, Talysh, Kurds. Here they are - auto-tones.
      A newcomer conqueror - what kind of an autochthon is he?
      If Bulgaria has been under the Turks for many centuries, then the Turks in Bulgaria are also autochthons?
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 5 June 2013 15: 32 New
        +4
        In recent years, great interest has been shown in studying evidence of wedge-shaped sources for identifying Indo-European 2, in particular, Iranian 3 and Turkic linguistic elements in connection with the territory of Azerbaijan 4. According to the first theory, based on a comparison of lexical materials and the establishment of phonetic patterns, the initial settlement of Indo-European tribes It began with the Near East and, naturally, it also affected the territory of Azerbaijan. As a result of the reverse movement in the first half of the second millennium BC. e. Indo-European ethnic groups reappeared in Asia Minor and left their linguistic elements in wedge-shaped sources 5. At one time, it was assumed that among the migrating (from the European ancestral home) Indo-European tribes there were Ural-Altai (Turkic languages ​​were included in the Altai family of languages, although there is no evidence of genetic there is no relationship between the Turkic language and the Altai language to this day) ethnic communities 6. In this connection, the problem of proto-Türk contact with the Indo-European and other populations of Western Asia arises in need of development e in ancient times, the solution of which can be carried out by the joint efforts of Indo-Europeans, Turkologists and clinologists (if I may say so). A priori, it can be argued that the area of ​​joint distribution of the Indo-European and Turkic, in the broad sense of the Altai system of languages, included the zones of Asia Minor, the Caucasus and Central Asia, where, probably, from ancient times there were movements (local and wide) of these ethnic communities.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 5 June 2013 15: 43 New
        +1
        Arab authors called Arran one of the languages ​​of Azerbaijan. Mukaddasi testifies that “... in Armenia they speak Armenian, in Arran - in the Arran language. They speak Persian like Khorasans and can be understood ”79. Judging by this report, Arran also spoke the Iranian dialect along with the Arran language. Unfortunately, it is impossible to identify the nature of the Arran language, although it was defined as the Azerbaijani-Turkic language of Northern Azerbaijan 80, and the language bears the name of the region itself, i.e. Arran. Identification of the Arran language with the Uti language. and the latter with Udinsky81 has no reason, since the ethnonym Udi was witnessed by Pliny (pr. VI, 38) outside the Barda zone, where they spoke Arran, but the population consisted of Utia in the early Middle Ages. Arransky was not the language of the Udins, but of the Uthia, which can be identified with the Türkic-speaking Utigurs (the gur is attested in many Turkic ethnonyms as an ethnic formant). The Caucasian languages, even represented in a number of zones of early medieval Azerbaijan, were so fragmented that none of them could become the common (especially, nation-wide) language of either Albania or later Arran. The analysis and comparison of information from sources shows that the Arran language is neither Arabic, Iranian nor Caucasian. And therefore, Arran can be mistaken for the prevailing Old Azerbaijani language, the speakers of which also spoke Iranian dialects.

        Thus, written evidence shows that the Azerbaijani population has been represented in Azerbaijan since ancient times, the composition of which was replenished with those or other waves of Turkic tribes from the Caucasus and Central Asia. There were probably reverse movements, the tracking of which according to written sources is not always possible. Using a number of cultural achievements of their neighbors, in particular, Iranian-speaking ethnic groups, the Turkic-speaking ethnic groups of the proto-Azerbaijani and ancient Azerbaijan periods failed to form an independent ethnopolitical force opposing external conquests. Their activities in connection with the territory of Azerbaijan remained in the shadows or associated with the Iranian-speaking and other ethnic world. But even in this shadow they left their traces in ancient and early medieval place names, onomastics and vocabulary of neighboring peoples. Given the totality of all written evidence and research on them, we can once again state that the formation of the Azerbaijani people and their language took place in the early Middle Ages with the predominance of Oguz elements and ended in the 82thth centuries, XNUMX, i.e., by the time the ideological sphere was finally determined the influence of Islam and Christianity in Azerbaijan.
      3. smersh70
        smersh70 5 June 2013 16: 55 New
        +1
        A protest rally was held in front of the Russian embassy in Yerevan, where protesters chanted the slogans “Russia, get out of Armenia”, “Gazprom, get out of Armenia,” virtualaz.org reports with reference to the Armenian media.

        Protesters are opposed to raising natural gas prices. They submitted a petition to the Russian Embassy.

        Participant of the action Argist Kiviryan said that this is not the only step of Russia aimed at weakening Armenia: “Russia is selling weapons to Azerbaijan, which is at war with Azerbaijan.”
  20. smersh70
    smersh70 2 June 2013 11: 52 New
    +1
    [quote = evfrat] On the one hand, I’m glad that the answer is still received. It’s a pity that it’s not from our opponents, the Turks

    but what. Kazakhs are not Turks chtoli,)))) you look everywhere, you see Mount Ararat everywhere, and you have the best water, 2 of the world (though you issue and sell water from the occupied Kelbajar region for water from Armenia) .. ..
    1. evfrat
      2 June 2013 13: 35 New
      +2
      I’m actually Russian, if you don’t understand, and judging by the name of the one I was talking to, it’s hardly Kazakh.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 5 June 2013 15: 48 New
        +2
        God give you health !!!!!!!!! at least he made comments under the Kazakh flag !!, and definitely definitely answered !!!!!!! if his arguments are not enough, then we will continue then ..)))
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 6 June 2013 00: 21 New
        +3
        "Oh, great world! Look at me. I am your speck of dust, I am the son of a Kazakh";)
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 5 June 2013 15: 52 New
      +1
      http://karabakh-doc.azerall.info/ru/azerpeople/ap010.htm---тут много,так что даю ссылку,почитайте на досуге hi
  21. Rinatgoi
    Rinatgoi 2 June 2013 17: 33 New
    +3
    General Sleptsov, 1844:
    “What right do these savages live on such a beautiful land? By the finger of the Lord of the worlds our August Emperor ordered us to destroy their villages, all men capable of carrying weapons to destroy, burn crops, pregnant women cut their stomachsso that they do not give birth to bandits .... "

    General Tsitsianov, "Conquered Caucasus", 1804:
    “I will destroy you all from the face of the earth, I will go with flame and burn everything that I can’t borrow with troops; I’ll cover the earth of your region with your blood and it will turn red, but you, like hares, will go to the gorges, and I will get you there, and if you don’t get it from the sword, then you will die from the cold ... ”

    Griboedov, who was in Velyaminov’s detachment, in 1825 in a letter to Begichev:
    “The name of Yermolov is still terrifying; God forbid that this charm is destroyed ... We will hang and forgive and spit on the story. "

    Decembrist Lorer:
    “In a conversation with Zass, I noticed to him,” he wrote, “that I do not like his system of war, and he answered me at the same time:“ Russia wants to conquer the Caucasus no matter what the cost. With peoples, our enemies, what to take if not fear and thunder? .. Philanthropy and Yermolov are not good here hanging mercilessly, robbing and burning villages, only this could do more than ours».

    General Bulgakov, 1810, report on the results of the campaign in Kabarda:
    “Until now, the Kabardian people never had such a loss ... They lost a lot of property that was burned with two hundred villages.”

    Nicholas I - Count Paskevich (1829, after the end of the Russian-Turkish war):
    “Having thus finished one glorious thing, you will have another, just as glorious in my eyes, and much more important in the discussion of direct benefits — the pacification of the mountain peoples forever or the extermination of the rebellious.”

    Pushkin, 1829, "Journey to Arzrum":
    “We drove them out of the free pastures; their villages were devastated, entire tribes destroyed. ”

    General Tsitsianov, 1804, "To the Owners of the Kabardian ...":
    “The blood in me is boiling, like in a cauldron, and the members all in me are shaking from greed to give your land the blood of disobedient people ... wait, I tell you, by my rule, bayonets, cores and the shedding of your blood by rivers. "Not muddy water will flow in your rivers, but red, your families are dyed with blood."

    Fonville, "The Last Year of the Circassian War of Independence, 1863-1864":
    “From all the places successively occupied by Russians, the inhabitants of the auls fled, and their hungry parties crossed the country in different directions, scattering the sick and dying in their paths; sometimes whole crowds of immigrants froze or drifted with snowstorms, and we often noticed, passing, their bloody tracks. “Wolves and bears raked snow and dug out human corpses from under it.”

    Berger, “Eviction of Highlanders from the Caucasus”:
    “We could not retreat from the business we had begun just because the Circassians did not want to submit. It was necessary to exterminate the Circassians in half to force the other half to lay down their arms. The plan proposed by Count Evdokimov for an irrevocable end to the Caucasian war by destroying the enemy is remarkable for its deep political thought and practical fidelity ... ”

    Venyukov, “Caucasian Memoirs (1861-1863)”:
    “The war was fought with inexorable merciless severity. We advanced step by step, but irrevocably, and cleared the land of the mountaineers to the last man. Mountain villages were burned in hundreds, crops were etched by horses or even trampled down. The population of the villages, if it was possible to take him by surprise, was immediately taken under military escort to the nearest villages, and from there they went from the shores of the Black Sea and further to Turkey ... The villages of the Abadzekhs on Fars burned for three days, filling the bitter space of versts for 30. Relocation was extremely successful ... "

    Russian nationalism and chauvinism in all its glory!
    1. uwzek
      uwzek 22 June 2013 17: 16 New
      0
      All these quotes, on the contrary, prove the complete absence of nationalism and chauvinism in Russian politics in the Caucasus. More precisely, in the northern Caucasus ... The point is that the above quotes only deal with the destruction of bandits and bandit infrastructure (stolen buyers, resellers of stolen and other mafia husks). It was precisely such a punks in Russia that the Circassians called, this has no direct relation to the current nation of the Circassians. Let’s separate the bandyugan among the people, because they have their own culture and language ... If Russia had the goal of destroying Chechens, Ingush and others in the Caucasus, this task would still be Colonel (or even a junior sergeant at that time) Suvorov A. AT. for half a month I would have performed three hundred percent ... And here you have once every ten years infuriated with the infinite "Wah-wah, it's not us, this is Mukhtar from a neighboring teip, but we are good, he’ll give Beslan an asshole - the military and Russian policemen arrange an ordinary mopping-up of thieves' raspberries (if you call them auls, it doesn’t change the meaning: if the “people” consider robberies and the slave trade to be the main source of income, such a people’s nail, and what right does it have to call people?). And the rest of the time, the Russian authorities fed this gopot, crosses and for bravery were awarded to St. Petersburg balls, everything as it is now ...
  22. P-15
    P-15 3 June 2013 08: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: combatpilot
    Learn to falsify correctly. Griboedov could not write to the Emperor "Your Excellency." The most gracious sovereign, or Your Imperial Majesty. Another gross fake.
    These words were written by I. Chavchavadze, well, God bless him. But what the Armenians write about the Armenians is amazing:
    The father of Armenian history Movses Khorenatsi (Moses Khorensky) in the XNUMXth century spoke of his fellow tribesmen:
    "I want to point out the hardheartedness, as well as the arrogance of our people, ...
    - rejecting the good, changing the truth ...
    people are obstinate and criminal ..
    -SHOWER WHO DOESN’T BELIEVE GOD!
    -you have done angry and in your lodges did not bring repentance
    -you laid the slaughter and lawlessness, and those who trust in the gentlemen despised
    - therefore, they will find on you the networks of the one you did not recognize and the prey for which you chased will make you their prey, and you will end up in the same networks ... "
    Is this enough or still add ??
    1. combatpilot
      combatpilot 5 June 2013 21: 15 New
      -1
      Already Chavchavadze. Oh well.
      The prize will not be paid at home, better not.
      Read the book of your contemporary Akram Aylisli.
      And leave alone Movses Khorenatsi.
      Enough to compose and ascribe to all Armenophobia.
  23. P-15
    P-15 3 June 2013 08: 54 New
    +2
    And this is a snack:
    German leader and scientist Colmer von der Goltz, Anatolian Sketches
    “Everyone who knows the bulk of the population in the provinces of Anatolia quickly gets used to respect and love the Turks, despise the Greeks and hate the Armenians. The local proverb“ Greek will deceive two Jews, and Armenian - two Greeks ”justifies itself everywhere. If anywhere in Anatolia you deceived, you can say with accuracy that you met with the Armenians. I do without any written contract when I deal with the Turk, for his words are enough. When I deal with the Greek or other Levantines, I conclude a written contract, because with them can not be west and things are different. With the Armenians, I don’t even have written cases certified, because even a written condition will not protect the intrigues and lies of the Armenians. "
    1. Lyria
      Lyria 8 June 2013 00: 28 New
      +1
      Thank. Liked. I copied it for memory .- :)
  24. Civilizer
    Civilizer 8 June 2019 18: 32 New
    0
    Classics of great-power logic and thinking, which, moreover, awaits false historical and ethnic postulates ...
    this is how the XNUMXst century ideology awaits and builds on history so distorted for the sake of imperial power that Russia, that sooner or later like other empires who have visited the Caucasus as a colonialist, will be full of collapse and catastrophe - which will entail artificially created problems for a short time in the Caucasus, but everything will fall into place — this is a historical fact and a thousand-year tradition! so Russia doesn’t have to think about the Caucasus as it will enslave it anymore. Subjugate the Forgiveness Encounter fraternal and kindred peoples with each other, Russify, destroy the Caucasians, but we need to think about ourselves - how to build a normal civilized state in the XNUMXst century, while this is possible and the country is like that or else it exists and until a catastrophic uncontrolled collapse has begun which cannot be stopped!