Military Review

Do I need a navy to protect the merchant fleet?

35
Do I need a navy to protect the merchant fleet?Gentlemen, officers and admirals! Honestly, read on your forum many of your arguments and thoughts are much nicer than reading the memoirs of admirals. Because your reasoning is much more robust. But on the forum, here and there, I read outrageous and megalomaniacal opinions about the fate of your naval fleet and ways of its development. I am perplexed. I worked and continue to work in the general system of merchant shipping - now not on the bridge, but in infrastructure, so to speak. Nevertheless, the Russian merchant fleet and its development were of interest to me and interest in the first place. And considering myself a part of merchant shipping, I actually believed and still believe that the navy is in our service, and not vice versa. But when I read and listen to the military, I understand that they are thinking and acting on the basis of their supremacy. Of course, they say something else, about protection and sacred boundaries, about greatness and so on, which you can’t measure and bite, but in reality it turns out - not for their sake, but for their sake. Gentlemen officers and admirals! But is it time for you to descend from the heavens of your dreams and fantasies to the sinful land of reality?


Let's take it in order. About the mighty Soviet Navy. He became the ocean. What did he do in the ocean? He defended not the interests of Russia, he defended the interests of the USSR and the cause of socialism. His main task was to contribute to the victory of socialism throughout the world. To the extent that the task really was global, the fleet had to go into the World Ocean, and it went there. With the collapse of the USSR, the cause of socialism has become irrelevant to us. And the huge fleet of Soviet times automatically became unnecessary. Because there are simply no global tasks that require a global and powerful presence in the oceans. But here and there they talk about the opposition of NATO, the United States and some kind of defense of our interests in places that have nothing to do with our interests. Lord officers! And also admirals! We do not yet have transnational corporations whose interests need to be protected by aircraft carriers somewhere on the edge of the earth. Well, no! But our admirals from time to time talk about the protection of domestic shipping? Here let's more in detail.

So, our domestic merchant shipping - what is it and what protection does it require? Our military men say about him, but not out of caution, or simply out of ignorance, they will never clarify what it is and what it threatens. Let me explain. In Soviet times, the Navy was built and expanded, inspired by ambition and political doctrine - either we or capitalism. Merchant fleet expanded, pushed the most severe economic need and the economic failure of the Soviet state. Were needed, at all costs, dollars, yen, marks, pounds and other hard currencies. One of the main suppliers of the USSR currency was the merchant fleet — these were ships under the Soviet flag, with Soviet crews, these were particles of the USSR, and there were many of them, they walked all over the World Ocean, selecting the currency where possible. It was possible, therefore, to talk about the protection of domestic merchant shipping - was the subject of conversation. The merchant shipping of the USSR was oceanic, international, and it was strategically important for the USSR because it brought a vital currency for which they bought both bread and new technologies. With the collapse of the USSR and the return to the real world, the merchant fleet of the USSR collapsed, scattered and eventually revived, already as Russian shipping.

Russian shipping has lost not in volumes and quantities, of which the cheers-patriots grieve - they have lost their strategic importance. It is strategically important in only one, in ensuring domestic delivery - this is primarily the North and the Far East. When we are trying to give out, for the strategically important, transportation of our raw materials, this is pure water (pure oil) slyness. If we imported oil and gas, then and only then these shipments would be of strategic importance for us. And we are trying, many politicians and for some reason admirals, to compare and compare with Japan or China. Strategically important is that without which the country faces death. Who threatens to reduce the export of our oil? Oligarchs? Well, let them protect in this case. But do not worry, nothing threatened the export of oil and it will not threaten, because our oil is not needed for its customers for luxury, but for elementary survival, and therefore they will take oil from us and take it out, and ensure the safety of these shipments the way we and did not dream.

All other types of transportation that we need are, for the most part, in addition to Russian shipping and even Russian ports, the main global freight traffic routes. So, gentlemen, the protection of Russian merchant shipping in the expanses of the oceans is a bit of a myth. It is too small to make 5-6 aircraft carrier connections to protect it. But I have to explain something for those who are accustomed to navigate fleets and squadrons using maps, rather than understand the base vulgarities of the world economy and world trade navigation. In the last century, the world economy spawned such a phenomenon — a convenient flag. Under the convenient flag, almost the entire world fleet has fled, and only recently, 10-20 ago, the reverse process of returning ships to the flags of those to whom they actually belonged began. And this process is not caused by someone’s will or political games of deputies and presidents, but by the demands of the economy. This is a separate conversation, but the essence, in relation to this article, is that the merchant fleets of the countries and their military fleets do not coincide with the point of view of protecting domestic merchant shipping - there is not a single example of compliance. If we proceed from the fact that there is a connection between the number of merchant ships flying the flag of this state and the size of its navy, then superpowers such as Panama, S. Vincent, Mongolia (who do not know - for several years now, Mongolia has become a convenient flag and , through an office in Singapore, it trades) or Cambodia, should each have 5-6 aircraft carriers, not to mention other trifles. The United States should have a couple of dozens of destroyers, England and the minesweepers will wipe, and for example, Finland will have enough of a couple of boats with pump guns in nests and holsters with pistols on their side.

The question is, what exactly should our aircraft carriers protect in the World Ocean? Whose interests? What do they even do there? Directly or bluntly, but it is understood that we must counter the threat from the naval forces of NATO and the United States. Okay, let's take it. We will try to resist a little and see what happens. Above its bell tower, merchant shipping, I do not climb. Geopolitics - this is not in my part, it hurts like a crappy thing, or is it done by those who are enthusiastically engaged in it? In general, we all know such a stamp - “the world gendarme”. The Navy means NATO and the United States, this is a world gendarme. Gentlemen, the question is - what's wrong with the gendarme? And who lives in the world without gendarmes and police? Show? I can show if you can not immediately. Somalia. For the third decade there are no policemen or gendarmes there. Go online and read, listen and see what Somalia is and what is happening there. So, the NATO and US Navy is somehow or less, but they are coping with their role as a gendarme; on the whole, the world’s shipping feels safe, with the exception of certain places. If someone thinks that in the World Ocean it is not necessary to maintain an elementary order and monitor security, then let them think further, it is not harmful to think. If the main concern and aspiration of our Navy is the confrontation of the naval forces of the West, then in fact, what does this mean? There is no political doctrine opposing the Western one. We just want to be cooler, and all you doctrine? Okay, let's go. Then we - precisely we - turn into gendarmes, there is no way out of it. We will run for help, we will be asked for protection, we will have to crawl into every hole in the oceans and extinguish every emerging conflict. Will they become more grateful towards us than towards us? Strongly doubt. Strong fear, but do not like. Just look at the Americans - whatever they do, everything is bad. They are bitten and in their direction spit, without exception, the whole world. If someone says, having blown his cheeks, that we are a completely different matter, that we are spiritual, and they, the NATO Navy and the USA, no, then with your permission, I giggle in this place. And this is not humor! I read in the memoirs of one admiral - an American aircraft carrier, this is a Teutonic knight in armor, intended for terrorist strikes, and the Russian aircraft carrier, this is a Russian knight in mail, intended ... for what he was intended there, the admiral was still undecided, painfully spiritually. But clearly not for what purpose American carriers of obscurantism are built. Gentlemen, patriotism is certainly good, but schizophrenia is by no means obligatory.

Do the Western Navy pose a threat to world shipping in general and Russian in particular? For example, last fall, before sending our AUG to the Mediterranean, the naval authorities said that this hike and further hikes of this kind were designed to ensure the safety of navigation in the North Atlantic. Gentlemen, any ice floe in the North Atlantic is more dangerous than NATO and the Western Navy, in general, to anyone. From whom it is necessary to protect shipping in the North Atlantic, explain? Did the German bots rise from the bottom and take on the old? In Greenland and the Norwegian fjords did the Vikings begin to move, gearing up the dragons? What kind of nonsense? Ask, finally, our domestic merchant shipping, do they need protection, and if so, where and from whom? By the way, this march began, if anyone remembers, from an ugly incident - the planes from Kuznetsov scared the scheduled Norwegian helicopters serving the oil platforms on the shelf. The Navy instantly declared that it had not violated laws and borders. Well, yes, did not break. But marine culture - violated. And if someone says that this was not the case, and that our military sailor is a model of culture, then the public will swallow it, but the merchant seaman does not. We have such a saying - be afraid in the sea of ​​a fisherman and a military sailor. I remember, on the traverse of Petropavlovsk, we’re walking past, laden with gasoline, kerosene and some kind of rocket for warriors fuel. Night eyes gouged out. Suddenly an incomprehensible object dangling to the right in the drift, with a running gear, but without anything else a single light, obviously a warrior, suddenly gives a sharp turn and slips in our meters on the nose. Then back. We izmatilis on VHF, until finally, something hoarse, we did not explain that they are working out the task. No teachings and no squares - some kind of pirate, his mother. What kind of kindergarten is this? This sin not only our military, but others too. The military consider themselves to be the salt of the earth (or the sea), and us, all others, the second grade. Personally, I think the opposite. He who builds and sows, transports and bargains, heals and forges, he also has salt, and all the rest are in one way or another freeloaders. Who, in short, pays, orders music, and it’s not for the military to determine their strategic objectives and goals, but to those who contain them. Tactics and techniques for accomplishing these goals set by them - yes, their business. But not more.

By the way, I note that there is no need to drag fishing into the protection of merchant shipping. These are completely different songs. Fish wars go on constantly, all are fighting against all. NATO members are fighting between themselves and with non-members, non-members are also not lagging behind, there are neither ideologies, nor political groups or interests. Fight for fish is no less evil and desperate than for oil.

If we talk about the protection of our domestic shipping and our domestic shipowner, then NATO and the USA are no more dangerous to them than Martians or giant squid. If we really protect our shipping and contribute to its development, then in principle, 5-6 aircraft carriers will not interfere. Provided that they are put on the raids of our main ports, and on every voyage of the original and main enemy of our shipping - various agencies, authorities and inspectors, the Navy will fly airplanes and helicopters into the air, take by storm the offices and institutions, and without trial or investigation mercilessly smack - a simple sailor's belt with a badge - all those who strangled and strangled our shipping. Our shipowner, gentlemen officers and admirals, is a rat thrown into a cage with fox terriers. With the order to survive. What he manages to do. And nobody helps him in his main war. If you put it before a choice - the elimination of one Russian bloodsucking agency, or of all US aircraft carriers combined, be sure of the choice. Carriers will not suffer.

And if you speculate about piracy, then here from the words of our admirals hair stand on end. And the officers, too. Here on the forum I notice a couple of times how the gentlemen of the military solve the problem of piracy with a hand-waving gesture - with a remarkable degree of contempt for the problem in general and its solution in particular. But this is a forum, what to take with it. But another weighty one - one of the regular commanders of the Black Sea Fleet several years ago stated literally that if our Navy rises from the ruins and reaches at least Soviet power, it will at once disperse all the pirates. Gentlemen, when a fleet commander speaks, it is a state official. Does he have to think or not, what does he say and what is behind his words? If not, then let me, the shtafirke, explain what it means to cope with pirates - well, for example, Somali. So, our fleet became great and mighty, and went to restore order to the Gulf of Aden, where for so long and so incompetently they were picking the United States with NATO. Came What to do? There are two ways. The minimum is to set up proper patrols along the Somali waters, which is thousands of miles (I may be mistaken, but thousands, not hundreds). Maximum and radical - to restore order in the country. Patrolling all waters along the entire border will require the entire Russian fleet, and what the Gulf of Aden today is, and why the coalition forces are not enough even there (not to mention the Somali waters in the Indian Ocean), the curious can learn from a small article "Black day in the Gulf of Aden".

Beat on the bases of pirates? Gentlemen, this is not San Diego or Rota. Pirate base, a dozen huts, worse quality than the hut of Robinson Crusoe, and a couple dozen motorboats. Change the base - go to the next bay by boat, send boilers, rice in bags and wives with boxes of cartridges on camels. It is necessary either to cover the entire coast with a series of preventive asymmetric (oh, I like these modern terms!) Nuclear-missile strikes (like the tsunami recently destroyed, having destroyed all Indonesian pirates for a few months), or to root them - to bring order to the country but power. It means - to occupy it to hell, with all that follows. On the one hand, humanity will breathe with relief. On the other - on the country that does it, immediately hang all the dogs and blamed for all sins. Journalists and politicians will find out that there are deposits of oil and gold, uranium and diamonds in Somalia, as well as there are - the Holy Grail and the Alexandrian Library, and that Russia or who else, who is occupying Somalia, has trampled all laws and morality, pursuing purely selfish goals. And every mistake and failure of the invader country will cause joy, applause and gloating screams of all progressive humanity. That's what, gentlemen, restoring order and the fight against piracy. First of all, this is a struggle with the world community in order for the mind to prevail, and for the world order to be able to provide peace and tranquility where the local population cannot provide it. And if this is not the case, then the person who dared to get into a foreign country will get so much on his head that a nuclear explosion will seem like a minor accident. Examples are in plain sight - Vietnam, Afghanistan, now here is Iraq. Any small and mediocre, at times criminal, state feels practically unpunished, and has the right to encourage piracy, then fight against it - in order to somehow influence it, great efforts and agreement of the entire world community are required. I can describe, and even laziness, how they fought and struggled with piracy in the Strait of Malacca, what kind of work it costs, and what kind of wild resistance any proposals from interested countries to help in this struggle cause. And our admirals promise to throw caps on piracy!

Officers, gentlemen, do you know that besides the fact that everyone knows, the pirates of Somalia and the Strait of Malacca, Nigeria and the Caribbean, there is another piracy, state? Here you are, for example, the DPRK. I will not write anything here, referring the curious to the article "Direct and Immediate Threat - Regional Shipping and the DPRK". But our new friend Venezuela - let it be known to you that, for example, quite recently Novoship was suing a Venezuelan company, along with other tanker companies. The roots of the conflict go to the top of the Venezuelan, and the essence of the conflict - simple kidalovo. But Venezuela comes up with something else, more abruptly. Something related to drugs. Vessels are arrested, shipowners fined, and thereby replenish the country's treasury for good socialist and anti-imperialist purposes. Oil money is not enough. Painfully actively struggling. The state piracy is also flourishing in a number of African countries.

So, with my trade and shipping bell tower, the Russian Navy in the oceans is not needed? It seems to me, not just needed, but very necessary. But - reasonable and high quality. At least two ship groups, and preferably three. In the Mediterranean, in the Gulf of Aden and in the waters of the APR, with a base in the Far East. Let these groups consist of a minimum of ships and transports, but let them be, and will be constant. In the Mediterranean region there are a number of countries that, by virtue of not very big mind, respect our Russian merchant ships only when they see masts and flags of Russian ships looming behind their settings. They treat everyone like that, not only Russia. And in the Mediterranean region there are more ships under the Russian flag than probably anywhere else. In the Gulf of Aden, our group could (for me, so long ago) have to join forces patrolling its waters, not only to participate in the holy fight against piracy, but also to gain invaluable experience in joint actions as part of selected forces of leading world maritime powers. In the Asia-Pacific region, it would be nice to demonstrate the strength of some local scumbags, it's high time.

5-6 aircraft carriers are not required here. But a few surface combat-ready ships are very necessary. But! We are approaching the biggest "but" from my civil point of view, the despicable shpak. It seems to me that the most important disease of our navy, coming from the depths of the centuries and poisonous tumor, has gnawed on the inside of the fleet especially in Soviet times, this is morality and concept - first ships, and then (if at all) people. So far, the people we have, from the last sailor up to the commander of the nuclear submarine missile carrier, are cheap consumables, requiring a minimum of expenditures and, last but not least, there is no real navy, and there will not be. Empty room and a waste of money. It is better to leave alone the border guards, and calm down.

The man first. Suppose a minimum of ships, but that the officer did not beat his head on the bed in the campaign, thinking about how the family is there. And this is not an official who, in a jeep, should casually overtake the submarine commander on a shabby beushka or indecent Zhigulenka somewhere on the way to the resort on vacation, but quite the opposite. An ordinary sailor, having been honored to get to the fleet, should, together with her parents, thank fate and offer prayers - I will serve, and I will have a higher education where I wish. And the service will be in conditions that it would envy, according to the material and living conditions, any medical sanatorium. The bases of the ships must meet any requirements and standards of NATO or the United States or the Arab sheikhs. Is it really impossible to do this, eh? Let the minimum, but the quality minimum at the level of the best world standards. And already from this minimum to dance and build powerful squadrons. What the hell do you need iron if people do not serve on it, but leave? How can you demand something from people set to manage the most complex and formidable technology, if they do not live, but survive? All these cries - they say, service to the fatherland, first about the homeland and then about the family, and thinking about myself and generally a crime - this is deception and deceit. I, gentlemen, are a rough materialist and a cynic, as it should be - after all, it’s not merchant shipping, but merchant shipping. And therefore if I hear calls for sacrifice, heroism and patience not in exceptional conditions, for a very short time, but constantly - for years and generations, I immediately begin to calculate, and to whom it is beneficial. And after a short calculation, I find a small task. Such morality is claimed by those who don't care what fleet they are, if only they look at the parade. Who needs irresponsibility and impunity. And in more detail - I will not, you yourself know. And this is not my business, after all.

My business is merchant shipping, and so far our Navy is going to take not the quality and people, but the amount of iron, our merchant shipping, gentlemen officers, do not care how much aircraft carriers will be in the Navy, and whether they will be at all, because there will be no sense.

Vojtenko Michael
July 06 2008
Maritime Bulletin - Sovfracht
http://www.odin.tc
Originator:
http://flot.com/forum/index.php?PAGE_NAME=read&FID=15&TID=1363
35 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Belogor
    Belogor April 30 2013 05: 28
    +8
    An article five years ago by a scandalous Russian journalist and former editor-in-chief of the "Sea Bulletin - Sovfrakht" publication Now, in my opinion, on the run.
    1. dmitrich
      dmitrich April 30 2013 05: 42
      +5
      probably in israel.
  2. domokl
    domokl April 30 2013 05: 41
    14
    Horses mixed up in a heap, people ... I understand the captain’s desire to be protected, but I don’t understand why the state military fleet is obliged to protect private ships, under someone else’s flag, and still not subordinate to anyone? The merchant fleet is now in a bigger pen than the military. ..it’s practically nonexistent.
    But the creation of conditions for the normal service of sailors is spoken correctly. The time will come and the merchant ships will become Russian, then the interaction will be organized
    1. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 April 30 2013 06: 02
      +2
      The flag is Russian, Man too. What are we talking about ?.
      1. domokl
        domokl April 30 2013 06: 36
        +4
        Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
        The flag is Russian, Man too. What are we talking about ?.
        According to reports of recent years, the flag is foreign, the owner knows who the hell are, people are citizens of Russia, Ukraine, well, and someone else ... Not a single state sea ship was detained anywhere ... Pirates attacked, but it was not detained ...
        It seems to me that you need to separate flies and cutlets.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel April 30 2013 07: 51
          11
          Forgive me, what do you mean by the phrase "state sea vessel"? Owner or flag "? There are purely state-owned merchant ships of Cuba, North Korea, China. The rest are in the commercial shipping companies of their country, or under the flag. Practically, the entire fleet of Russia and Ukraine is displayed under the flags. Up to two purely agricultural Mongolia and Moldova. By the number of vessels flying their flag per capita, they are an order of magnitude ahead of both Russia and Ukraine.
          Why the fleet goes under the wrong flag in the era of the development of wild capitalism, the answer is simple. Wild capitalism. Mayhem in everything. From registration, operation, supervision, and most importantly, concealment of income and tax evasion.
          In the ocean fleet. There are never any extra warships. History has shown that not a single admiral with seven spans in his forehead could determine in advance the supremacy of the class of ships in the war. Everything was learned in battle.
          On the safety of navigation in pirate dangerous areas. Better than any escort ship, it is calmer and safer when on board there is a well-trained and equipped combat escort group with an intelligent commander who knows how to correctly establish a barrier system and firing points. Yes, this security is not cheap, but the management of a normal company goes for it. A short queue with a tracer and high-speed motorboats of "friends" together make a turn "all of a sudden" and at maximum speed go towards the horizon.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa April 30 2013 23: 48
            +3
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            History has shown that not a single admiral with seven spans in his forehead could determine in advance the supremacy of the class of ships in the war.

            Hello, colleague! I was not an admiral (did not have time), but it seems to me that the General Staff of the Navy correctly determined its priorities: a balanced fleet with a priority for various purposes (the main striking force of the fleet). Why?
            (1) - tremendous destructive power (rpkSN, plark, plat with R-TO in special equipment)
            (2) - stealth actions, hence the suddenness of the blow;
            (3) - great survivability. before a submarine attacks, it must be found in the depths of the ocean
            (4) - great autonomy, mobility, unlimited RBD, up to the ice.
            (5) - a restraining factor, fettering the actions of the enemy fleet forces, causing a lot of tension for their submarine forces, with the threat of submarines against KOH, DESO, AMG.
            and others.
            The presence of AVU at the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet is mainly due to the need to solve the problem of deployment and maintenance of the rpkSn database.
      2. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR April 30 2013 06: 55
        0
        So went into the shadows so that gray schemes bypassing the state are tasty to eat?
        Well, let them wait for help from their gray masters.
        The flag is not ours? Well, then the problem is not ours.
        Why should I, as an honest taxpayer, sponsor the salvation of crooks and thieves?
        A long-range campaign of the Navy is certainly good, but with the same means the same ships could be sent to the shores of Syria or to other regions.
    2. Papakiko
      Papakiko April 30 2013 08: 50
      +5
      Quote: domokl
      creating the conditions for the normal service of sailors

      Categorically uncountable differently YES-YES-YES-YES AND YES-YES-YES-YES !!!!
      Quote: domokl
      The time will come and the merchant ships will become Russian, then the interaction will be organized

      This will only happen after the worldwide closure of offshore and flags of convenience. True, something suggests a very, very distant perspective in the fog about the closure of this "shop".
      Honestly read to Hit the pirate bases? Gentlemen, this is not San Diego and Rota. and spat ...
      The goods made in China, the Chinese are trying to export their ships. Resources also try their own. And the whole world does it. Why should we read and delve into the nonsense written by the next Tolerast in this article !?
      We need the Navy and Army strong, we are not a banana republic!
  3. Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 April 30 2013 05: 42
    +9
    Article is old and it is not clear why it is needed here. request And if on the topic, then in Soviet times the merchant fleet was part of the state and any attack on a Soviet ship was regarded as an attack on the Soviet Union with all the consequences am Return the morphlot to the state and you can forget about all kinds of nonsense like pirates. And if a vessel with a mixed crew goes under the flag of Belize and the owner in Cyprus - tyty OH!
    1. matross
      matross April 30 2013 20: 48
      -1
      Quote: Ruslan67
      Return the morphlot to the state and you can forget about all kinds of nonsense like pirates

      Do you propose to nationalize the courts? Well, well ... the utopia is pure. Technically impossible, even theoretically, they all have been attributed to some Panlibgonko for a long time and the shipowner company is "not ours."
      And the pirates don't care what flag if the cargo is interesting, even Martian. Not protected - you can be attacked. So, "all nonsense" can not be forgotten so simply by one decree and a bare resolution!
      Quote: Ruslan67
      And if a vessel with a mixed crew goes under the flag of Belize and the owner in Cyprus - tydy OH!

      What's "OUCH"? Protection of shipping from pirates then sideways? And if the mixed team has Russian citizens? Let's spit? Like, hired yourself - answer yourself? And then why are we grazing in the Gulf of Aden?
      To you - negative
  4. Reasonable, 2,3
    Reasonable, 2,3 April 30 2013 05: 58
    +3
    FLEET - To restore order in the country? HM? Once it was. The immediate tasks of the fleet are near and far frontiers. And the "gentlemen" are in Paris, we have comrades.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US April 30 2013 22: 11
      0
      in my opinion, it’s just Mr. President that I haven’t heard something about the comrade’s appeal to PU ...
  5. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee April 30 2013 06: 06
    +9
    The article is five years old .. During this time, the Navy, MoF and the fishing fleet did not revive am
  6. Per se.
    Per se. April 30 2013 06: 32
    11
    Again, "for the fish money"! Why do we need aircraft carriers, think about sausage, why do we need the Airborne Forces, take care of housing, why, why, why ... Who are these Bayun Cats, that they discourage us from a modern army and a strong fleet? Yesterday I listened to Gennady Andreevich, 24 across Russia, he speaks correctly, about energy prices, cargo transportation, strategic industries, education, health care, forest plantations, alkagol, and a lot of vital things, but where are the ears of those in power? The Japanese have arrived, again, - give up the South Kuriles, and we will sign a peace treaty. Where are you, the Soviet Union, my country, in which I was born, to which I swore an oath in the army, about which we hounded jokes, but only after losing did we realize that we had. Billions are being plundered now, and then all sorts of klikushi wail why we need a fleet. Do not wait, the hour of reckoning will come for all traitors, thieves and bandits. It is a pity that it will probably take a long time to wait, whether the country and the people can withstand ...
    1. sniper
      sniper April 30 2013 13: 06
      +2
      The article is frank poison, it is a pity that he did not continue further, but would have sounded something like this:
      Why do we need an army ??? Protect our pipelines? So the American marines are fine with this, you just need to not stop them from occupying our territory, because what we pump on them is necessary to the west and not to us ... With whom should we fight ??? All around are friends who bring us peace, friendship and chewing gum ... And to fight the poor dekhans, three militia are enough ... forgive the police with rubber batons, but even PM is very dangerous for them ...
      For such articles you need to be prosecuted, especially if it turns out that the afffftor has never stood on the bridge ...
    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US April 30 2013 22: 13
      +1
      Will we survive? ......
  7. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 April 30 2013 07: 11
    +5
    Amusing reasoning "huckster" about geopolitics.
    It’s scary if they come to power.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US April 30 2013 22: 15
      +2
      And they are already in power ...
  8. the polar
    the polar April 30 2013 07: 26
    +3
    Quote: Dmitry 2246
    Amusing reasoning "huckster" about geopolitics.
    It’s scary if they come to power.

    Who is in power today?
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach April 30 2013 14: 12
      +1
      KGB HeiressNKV Prototype of KravavayaMorder. Not?
  9. mojohed
    mojohed April 30 2013 07: 32
    +4
    The Russian Navy needs a country. And not as part of insanely expensive and dubious aircraft carriers, but as part of warships of all ranks and types. So that the squadron connection could have a mediocre anti-aircraft defense umbrella and anti-mine and anti-torpedo capabilities. I believe that the creation of a squadron on a permanent basis in the Mediterranean is an impetus to the development of our entire fleet. Further formation of compounds on other seas-oceans-theater of operations will also give rise to the development of the country's sea power.
  10. pensioner
    pensioner April 30 2013 08: 18
    +3
    Too stormy (for me) stream of consciousness. But the topic is important. Whoever would explain this topic sensibly ...
  11. aviamed90
    aviamed90 April 30 2013 08: 29
    +6
    Article - "minus".
    The protection of the civilian navy is one of the tasks of the Navy in both peacetime and wartime, of course. But this is only one of many tasks. It is impossible to reduce the interests of the country to protect only the trading interests of trading companies.
    You gentlemen, traders, are not yet Russia.

    And what, interestingly, does the fleet do when on civilian ships combined crews from many countries? They earn money, and the fleet for taxes of citizens of the Russian Federation should observe the interests of each sailor? You already decide what flag you are flying, for starters !!!


    "The question is, what exactly should our aircraft carriers protect in the oceans?"
    Well, we never had aircraft carriers! And about the protection in the oceans - move your brain! Maybe sound thoughts will appear! And now on the forum, formulating the tasks of the Russian Navy is simply a waste of time.
    Everything has been formulated long before us.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 May 2013 00: 04
      +3
      Quote: aviamed90
      And about the protection in the oceans - move your brain

      That's the point, colleague, that the author, apparently, has nothing to move! I said: to make categorical judgments, you must at least be in the subject. I was always touched when the shtafirki consider themselves to be true Seaman, and the military are so ... on the side of the fire.
      About your post - I agree 100%. Therefore, I wish you a "successful hunt"!
  12. ovgorskiy
    ovgorskiy April 30 2013 08: 47
    +6
    A typical article of a merchant, and it’s true, but what does a US carrier group threaten to a shawarma seller at the bazaar? So, to put one fed policeman on the corner so that he would protect him from punks, nothing more is needed. Only now, when our merchants, even those flying the flag of Mongolia, are captured by pirates or arrested for smuggling, they demand protection from Russia and for a moment forget that they are citizens of Mongolia on their ship. To be honest, I would do so, put the flag of a foreign country on the ship, protect this country and ask, I think Mongolia will immediately withdraw its AUG to help you. I think the author is not alone in his opinion, traders all over the world suffer from this. Profit above all, nothing personal.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 May 2013 00: 17
      +2
      Quote: ovgorskiy
      Only now, when our merchants, even those flying the flag of Mongolia, are captured by pirates or arrested for smuggling, they demand protection from Russia and for a moment forget that they are citizens of Mongolia on their ship.

      Citizens of the Russian Federation, no matter what ship they are on, do not cease to remain citizens of the Russian Federation and have the right to rely on the protection of the country whose citizens they are. Diplomatic (consular) workers are required to provide them with all possible assistance in the host country.
      They, as employees (contract), provide the owner of the vessel (company) the services specified in the contract for which they receive a monetary reward. Below 1000 euros can not be paid.
      Such is the legal status of our compatriots employed on foreign employment. ships.
      1. ovgorskiy
        ovgorskiy 1 May 2013 13: 43
        0
        I wrote honestly, not legally. But it’s interesting if our comrade leaves for the USA to earn money, will the US police or our embassy protect him from punks?
  13. Rustiger
    Rustiger April 30 2013 09: 07
    10
    Sooooo controversial article. . . Very . . .
    As a former naval sailor, and as a merchant river operator with experience of mixed sailing, I would like to shake the author's "crab" in one paragraph, and at the same time, for another pearl to "flatten" his face. ... ...
    "Muzzle" can more often. ... ...
    1. It is necessary to return our ships "under our flags." And this should be done not by the military, but by economists and politicians. Then the need for warriors will appear.
    2. Stocks of fish and seafood is a factor of survival, and a resource, in contrast to hydrocarbons, is RENEWABLE in the modern world. And it only grows every year. And without armed ships, the "glade" is not only not held, but there is a considerable chance to fuck up completely. ... ...

    I want to say a lot about what I read - once. I read / listen to members of the forum. . .

    I remember, on the traverse of Petropavlovsk, we are walking past ourselves, loaded with gasoline, kerosene and some kind of rocket fuel for warriors. Night eyes gouged out. Suddenly, an incomprehensible object dangling to the right in a drift with running, but without otherwise a single spark, obviously a warrior, suddenly gives a sharp turn and slips in our nose in meters. Then back. We tested on VHF until finally something hoarse explained to us that they were fulfilling the task here. No teachings and no squares - some kind of pirate, his mother. What kind of kindergarten is this? This is not only our military sin, but others too. The military consider themselves to be the salt of the earth (or sea), and we, all others, are second grade.

    Yes, here we are, Russian sailors. And we are strong / dangerous, including our PREDICTION . . . soldier
    laughing
    Whoever doesn’t like, let him sucks x ___ tsy"licks the matzo"
    try to get a fuck
  14. Horla
    Horla April 30 2013 09: 37
    +1
    The state needs a fleet to protect its interests in the world, and only including the protection of civil shipping. The article is stupid, and the author is an amateur.
  15. UFO
    UFO April 30 2013 09: 51
    +1
    "Is the Navy Needed to Protect the Merchant Fleet". belay sad The answer is obvious? what laughing
  16. Vtel
    Vtel April 30 2013 10: 37
    +3
    The Navy, then NATO and the United States, is the world's gendarme. Gentlemen, the question is - what's wrong with the gendarme? And who in the world lives without gendarmes and policemen? Show? I can show if you can’t immediately. Somalia.

    Somalia, Somalia - this "turned out" cool even for the United States, but the question arises, is this not a cunning trick of the Yankee gendarme so that not everyone, except them, of course, would be unsafe to swim here.
    And about safety, if only traumatism would be allowed.
  17. Mhpv
    Mhpv April 30 2013 10: 42
    +3
    1. "At present, the Russian Government has assigned the following tasks to the Navy: [7]

    deterrence from the use of military force or the threat of its use against Russia;
    protection by military methods of the sovereignty of a country extending beyond its land territory to inland sea waters and the territorial sea, sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf, as well as freedom of the open sea;
    creation and maintenance of conditions for ensuring the safety of maritime activities in the oceans;
    ensuring the naval presence of Russia in the oceans, the demonstration of the flag and military force, visits of ships and vessels of the Navy;
    ensuring participation in military, peacekeeping and humanitarian actions carried out by the world community that meet the interests of the state. [7] "
    2.THE TRADE FLEET, the totality of the country's vessels together with their personnel engaged in commercial activities. In the broad sense of the term, the merchant fleet includes not only ships and naval personnel, but also numerous coastal services: operational management bodies, repair and bunkering enterprises, maritime insurance agencies and much more, in addition to shipyards, docks, moorings and warehouses. All modern sea vessels have a national status, the symbol of which is the flag that flies over each vessel. Raising the flag implies the presence of official ship documents and a registry certificate. National status entails both privileges and responsibilities. It allows you to enlist the naval or diplomatic support of your and friendly states in different parts of the world, but it also gives the government the right to dispose of private courts in extraordinary circumstances, and in ordinary circumstances to extend them to the conditions of their operation state regulations. These standards include requirements for the national composition of the crew, to verify the qualifications of the crew and certification of command personnel.
    What we have in the article:
    "The USSR was a merchant fleet - these were ships flying the Soviet flag, with Soviet crews, these were particles of the USSR, and there were many of them, they sailed all over the World Ocean.With the collapse of the USSR and the return to the real world, the merchant fleet of the USSR collapsed, fled
    But this is generally the "song" of a patriot of the country: "By the way, I will note - there is no need to drag fishing to the protection of merchant shipping. These are completely different songs."
    Bottom line article bullshit and nonsense.
    First return the ships and crews to the flag of Russia, and then write such articles.
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 12: 18
      +7
      Quote: mhpv
      First return the ships and crews to the flag of Russia, and then write such articles.

      And more comments and opinions are not needed. While Russian ships sail under the flag of Liberia, Panama, the Virgin Islands, and also, attention, under the flag of Tuvalu (heard of this?) And the great maritime power of Mongolia, I - the officer of the Russian Navy (albeit already the former) will be somewhat unaware that happens to them in the oceans.
      You need security and safety - all questions to the shipowner. Hire PMCs, conclude contracts with the state of the Russian Federation and for not too much (in relation to the ship owner's profit) money come on board to you and the Russian MP, which has already passed all the "hot" sea regions "for the idea."
      Why would a country have to plan something if its fleet went under the "flags"? Especially since shipbuilding programs should be coordinated with the opinions of poor "former" Russian sailors? You went to earn money, you knew what you went for - now we do not interfere.
  18. smart ass
    smart ass April 30 2013 12: 03
    -1
    And I think that the Navy should not protect the merchant fleet! Well what for ???? On merchant ships, it is imperative to poke 1 cargo container with RCC type CLAB! let’s catch
  19. arnulla
    arnulla April 30 2013 12: 13
    +3
    If I am not mistaken, the Soviet merchant fleet was the largest in the world. And the fishermen knew, if anything, the Soviet Navy would always fit in with them. And that was right ...
  20. Andrew 121
    Andrew 121 April 30 2013 13: 11
    0
    What are men doing with the airplane in the photo for this article? I mean, they spread their wings there or is it such a picture !?
    1. Know-nothing
      April 30 2013 19: 03
      0
      Emergency Console Layout
  21. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv April 30 2013 13: 44
    +5
    Article is old, it is in the first place.

    And secondly, it is written very competently from the point of view of psychology and is slightly “sewn up” with anchors on the principle of NLP.
    Those. a lot of truth and good, right words are mixed in a heap with what the author wanted to convey and put into the reader’s brains. And he wanted to invest the following - a strong Russian Navy is not needed. Only a few squadrons of frigates with mandatory respect for the Incomplete Adequate Terrorist Organization are enough.
    In my opinion - a dangerous article. Especially for not strong minds.

    IMHO. I’m not a moroman, I evaluated the article from the point of view of psychology, everything shouts about it there.
  22. not good
    not good April 30 2013 14: 30
    +1
    The article is controversial, but the fleet needs strong no matter what it says. And about the pirates, enough political will, there will be a sign on top like those who attacked a ship under the Russian flag will be shot, and the international community will be sent to ... to Somalia and to our ships after most pirates will watch several demonstrative anti-piracy actions with caution. Moreover, even now there is an experience of covert interaction (it sounds funny) between our local and local, when local surrender competitors and do not attack ships in the area of ​​responsibility of our Navy. All the same, Patrice Lumumba and the institute of his name GREAT MATTER.
  23. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr April 30 2013 14: 32
    +1
    "Mister" author! Isn't it time for you to descend from the heavens of your dreams and fantasies to the sinful land of reality? He is talking nonsense and does not want to understand that this is nonsense! "ADVISOR". It looks like this one did not stand on the bridge, nor did he have the slightest relation to the Armed Forces. By the way, who this rubbish, especially outdated, decided to pull out for discussion. (Voitenko Mikhail
    July 06, 2008 Maritime Bulletin - Sovfreight http://www.odin.tc) Something that made me doubt that the author decided to remind himself.

    With the head. But, not in place ...
  24. honest jew
    honest jew April 30 2013 15: 07
    +1
    First you need to create a merchant fleet, and then protect it !!
    1. Kavtorang
      Kavtorang April 30 2013 15: 35
      0
      Maybe return the "subflags"? There, you see, you won't need to create in an emergency mode.
      For example, the Accounts Chamber will analyze the activities of Sovcomflot, either the Preobrazhenskaya Trawl Fleet Base (PBTRF) or the Nakhodka Active Marine Fisheries Base (BAMR), or maybe someone will ask where FESCO has gone? About the refrigerated suppliers of the VRHF, I will not say anything at all. About the floating base "Vsevolod Sibirtsev" - theirs was bought by the whole country ("a fish made in the sea") to tell where it is (I mean the floating plant, not canned food).
  25. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 30 2013 22: 05
    +1
    Good article. I completely agree about customs and other domestic services that are sitting at the withers of our fleet. In particular, this is the reason that an unscheduled entry into Russia is equated with force majeure and the captain bears all the costs. Really pester both the captain and shipowners. And about coastal provision I completely agree. If at least roughly to estimate what the Navy saves us from, the provision there should be of the highest class. So that in any geographic ass of the country, the sailor would understand that he and his family are valuable to this country. And then soon Gaster and the fleet will have to be hired.
  26. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa April 30 2013 23: 20
    +2
    Good evening! Oh, these amateurs! Forever pulls them through the tree of the site with a vague thought to spread. I have to oppose.
    1. During WWII, protection of surface ships from attacks by submarines, raiders, and aircraft. The Allies decided to organize convoy wiring system. When it was introduced, the effectiveness of the Germans' actions in communications decreased significantly. It's expensive, stressful, but worth it. Pay - we are ready to satisfy your PRIVATE requests.
    In modern conditions, the NK of maritime powers stand out to ensure the peaceful passage of civilian vessels in waters dangerous from piracy. We moved from patrol areas to escorting groups of ships. A very effective measure.
    2. About state piracy. There is a UN, complain. But the owner is a burden: time, money, lost profit, etc. The output is an appeal to public opinion: “Help, rob a poor Jew!” There is another way. Insurance paid at the UN. The received certificate gives the right to a request for the pilotage of a ship under the escort of the anti-piracy forces. But this is an extra cost, and no one will do it.
    3.About aircraft carriers. How much has been said about this: well, it’s not the task of the AVU to protect civilian lives! There are cheaper means for this, and more efficient: SKRs, for example! (Now frigates, EM, and even corvettes are suitable if there is a rear support system at sea, as in our time).
    4. I was especially pleased reasoning about the service as a resort! This is cheap populism, designed for unstable and fragile in the expectation that they will give up on everything and flee from ships to MorTransFlot, in the worst case for them - ashore.
    Yes, I agree, every seafarer sailor (and not only) should have his own comfortable, comfortable angle. So that the family does not wander in rented apartments. Bachelors are normal hostels. But this can be done with a flourishing economy. In the meantime, we have what we have. Recently, this issue has been resolved more vigorously than before. An example is Vilyuchinsk.
    5.About salaries. ZP — an integral part of the cost of maintaining the fleet. The fleet is people (crews), and then ships. Those who think differently, with those dangerous to go to sea. It was like that in Soviet times. Therefore, they said that people here are stronger than metal. Everyone can give a bunch of examples.
    6.Interesting thought about the battle group. Yes, the marines are reliable in repelling attempts to capture the ship by the boarding crew. But the criminals approach the tanker, get an RPG with a cumulative grenade and threaten to burn the ship. Therefore, nothing more effective than a frigate with a helicopter and an inspection team on it, for today, has not been invented against pirates.

    You can still talk a lot, it’s better to do it. Therefore, the Russian Federation on a regular basis sends its ships to the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea, revives 5 operations in Middle-earth.
    Now (30.04.13) my son (lieutenant commander) at Severomorsk is solving these problems.
    Seven feet to his ship under the keel! Clear sky, fair wind!
  27. Goblin 28
    Goblin 28 1 May 2013 01: 17
    +2
    Lord warlords! Let shtafirka - the captain of the merchant fleet with a total sea experience in 31 year and own captain experience in 14 years to say. Share of truth in words
    the author is. The fleet of the State must carry out not only strategic, tactical and other tasks. As we, merchant seamen of Russia scattered around foreign companies under “convenient” flags, it seems, the Navy still has to protect its citizens, no matter where and under what flags they plow the seas and oceans, making money and paying taxes regularly, volume numbered on the Navy and the salary of sailors.
    Pass at least once the Gulf of Aden on an unarmed “steamboat” and you will understand everything.
    And the distinguished Kavtorang and his ilk, with their statements, dishonor the holy rank of officer of the Russian Navy.
    So, if Russian citizens are forced to earn money under foreign flags, then they don’t need to protect them?
    And you, dear Kavtorang, that you donated your salary, starting with the lieutenant, to the construction of shelters and nursing homes?
    And according to the information that the anti-piracy center is constantly supplying us there, pirate tactics are constantly being improved, and in many respects, thanks to former graduates of the Caspian VVMU, hired for money and sitting in pirate bases. Now the whole Indian Ocean has turned into pirate land
    And your neglect of the "traders" is not entirely clear. I can tell you all a lot of true and instructive stories about the marine art of the sailors of the "Mediterranean" squadron of the USSR Navy - in Soviet times, I had a lot of resemblance there on tankers of the Navy as "suppliers" of this glorious connection with a bunker, water and provisions.
    Remember, under any flags we are and will always be citizens of Russia, and we have the right to count on its protection because what? But why then the Army and Navy, if not for the protection of their citizens?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 May 2013 10: 47
      +2
      Quote: Goblin 28
      Remember, under any flags we are and will always be citizens of Russia, and we have the right to count on its protection because what? But why then the Army and Navy, if not for the protection of their citizens?

      Dear Cap! Do not take your heart out of the military: both "among you" and "among us" there are different people. It depends on many factors, we will not go into details, but it is necessary to carefully look at the posts on the site and comments. Today at 00.17 I answered your message. If you do not agree, rewrite the Constitution and other legislative acts (including international ones). And one more piece of advice: never boast of past achievements! on the site YOU are a private, so get in line! I have 43 years of service, 37 on an iron deck, autonomy for 90 days, BS without entering the PB for 9 months, can also tell how the code locks were removed ... So you need to "soften up, look at the problems with your brothers in spirit (sailors) wider, to delve into the problems poglybzhe ". Happy Holidays, dear Cap, and many thanks for the excellent support (we spoke for the job and sent a present!) In Mediterranean!
      PS. For your position, although a warlord, he put +++, because she is right!
      1. Goblin 28
        Goblin 28 1 May 2013 13: 11
        +1
        Thank you, dear KAA Boa! By the way, I really like your posts. This is not flattery, a statement of fact. I did not boast of merit. It’s just for the information that I’m not quite an amateur, but one of the many privates of the sea. There is to be in operation!
        Happy holiday to you and all forum users. Health, good luck, calm sea and cold bearings!
  28. varov14
    varov14 1 May 2013 12: 43
    0
    "All these screams - they say, service to the fatherland, first about the motherland and then about the family, and thinking about oneself and, in general, a crime - this is deception and swindle." --- In this part I completely agree with the article, we have people usually overboard, but for some reason all the clerks do not forget themselves and always try to live in chocolate. It used to be at least some kind of ideology, now for me that the interests of Uncle "Sam" and "Vekselberg" are equally distant.
  29. varov14
    varov14 1 May 2013 12: 43
    0
    "All these screams - they say, service to the fatherland, first about the motherland and then about the family, and thinking about oneself and, in general, a crime - this is deception and swindle." --- In this part I completely agree with the article, we have people usually overboard, but for some reason all the clerks do not forget themselves and always try to live in chocolate. It used to be at least some kind of ideology, now for me that the interests of Uncle "Sam" and "Vekselberg" are equally distant.
  30. zav
    zav 1 May 2013 13: 30
    0
    “But can I order,” the Authority reflects, being in a benevolent mood during the evening tea party and rattling a silver spoon in exclusive china, “a couple of aircraft carriers?”
    And he takes a clever idea into account, since aircraft carriers may very soon be needed to protect the business of Russian nouveau riche in other countries and on other continents. But suddenly a shadow creeps onto the bright brow, and the Power returns with a quiet sigh from the ghostly sea distances ...
  31. politruk419
    politruk419 1 May 2013 16: 18
    0
    I read about the experience of the Japanese in ensuring the safety of navigation during the 2MB period. They acted brutally but solved the problem quickly. The crews of pirate schooners simply cut out and drowned in the Strait of Mallaki. And Madame Wong was quiet for several years. The destroyer or TFR in matters like this is always out of competition.
  32. mr.Man
    mr.Man 1 May 2013 22: 08
    0
    Quote: aviamed90
    Article - "minus".
    The protection of the civilian navy is one of the tasks of the Navy in both peacetime and wartime, of course. But this is only one of many tasks. It is impossible to reduce the interests of the country to protect only the trading interests of trading companies.
    You, gentlemen, traders, are not yet Russia ...

    No.
    The army-fleet must be protected by all its citizens (when words no longer apply), no matter who they are or wherever they are at that moment ...
    If a citizen of a country who got into an alteration and doesn’t care where he was (worked / rested) before that, the state should be able to rescue this citizen from the alteration by his own will and will, and if he helps out citizens of other countries along the way, I think this country will be very grateful for NOW ...

    The army and navy must protect their citizens not only while they are on their territory, but also outside it ...
    Russia is not only a territory, but also its people.