Military Review

Anatoly Wasserman: "You do not need to be a scientist to say that the educational system has already collapsed"

41
According to the media, Dmitry Medvedev refused to dismiss Minister of Education and Science Dmitry Livanov. Speaking in the State Duma, the prime minister called the position Livanov occupies “firing squad,” but said that a minister who likes everyone is a person who most likely does not quite cope with his duties.


In this regard, we appealed to Anatoly Wasserman with a request to comment on the actions of Livanov and assess the state of the education system of our country as a whole.

We must first learn not facts, but laws and interrelations

Everyone considers himself a specialist in training football teams, education and treatment. This is true, but not all. The next part of the same truth is the motto of one American anti-war group during the Vietnam War. The motto was: "You don't have to be a meteorologist to say that it is already raining." Similarly: one does not have to be a scientist to say that the education system is already ruined. This is visible to the naked eye. Of course, the position of the Minister of Education, as well as the Minister of Health, has always been “shot”. Naturally, they “fired” not with lead bullets, but with lead typographical letters. It is very difficult, but it is clear which way the situation in this industry is changing, and it is clear that it is changing from bad to worse.

Secondary and higher education is now being converted around the world from law-centered education to fact-centered education. Several centuries ago, the main task of the school was to memorize as a student a set of concrete facts without an understanding of the meaning of these facts and the system of interconnections in nature, which determines the appearance of these facts. But by the middle of the 19th century, there was a clear understanding that it was necessary to study, first of all, not facts, but laws and interrelations.

As early as the middle of the 18th century, Helvetius said: "The knowledge of certain principles successfully replaces the knowledge of certain facts." And a century after Helvetius and the other French encyclopedists, the entire education system lined up to teach these certain principles. Now the education system is being replaced in such a way that it taught isolated facts.

In Western Europe, our university teachers are in great demand now.

The education system retreated to the Middle Ages. This fact is obvious for a long time. The deadlock of such a path has been known since the late Middle Ages, and now we are forced to move along this path. Moreover, in countries that still consider themselves developed, it is already clear what this educational policy has led to. They are already experiencing a catastrophic shortage of personnel capable of doing at least something useful.

Now Zuckerberg has created his own political party, designed to push through ways to reduce the shortage of qualified personnel. He did this because the Americans are already short of cadres. True, he says that foreigners who have graduated from an American high school could stay at work in America. In essence, this means that the American high school does not provide enough students for high school. There, the transformation began with a high school, and in Western Europe - with a higher one. So, in Western Europe, our university teachers are in great demand now, because the high school there hasn’t trained university teachers of the required level for a long time. The failure of these reforms is completely obvious.

If the Minister of Education, the Minister of Health or the Prime Minister does not understand that the proposed path of reform is not even a dead end road, but a cliff, it is not professionally suitable. As for the growth in the number of universities and the number of students in them now, this growth may be due to the fact that the complexity of life and business has increased. Or maybe it is because higher education is used, in essence, as a continuing secondary. As far as I can tell, the second option is closer to the truth.
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  1. Belogor
    Belogor April 20 2013 06: 14 New
    15
    Just a fact of fact, everyone knows about it and does not need to be Wasserman.
    1. vadimus
      vadimus April 20 2013 07: 17 New
      18
      I do not want to have American-like children ..... Scary ...
      1. bask
        bask April 20 2013 07: 26 New
        18
        Quote: vadimus
        the education system has already collapsed ”

        A well-known fact, and what else besides the educational system is ruined.
        Or is everything else, medicine, science, industrial production, flourishing,?
        1. Russian
          Russian April 20 2013 10: 55 New
          +5
          Here is this video, watch from 2:30:



          There even deputies are sitting listening to him with a grin. Disgrace
          1. Garrin
            Garrin April 20 2013 17: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: р_у_с_с_к_и_й

            There even deputies are sitting listening to him with a grin. Disgrace

            Deputies okay. But the government generally grins. Like, at x .. in one place we saw you.
          2. Alexander-81
            Alexander-81 April 20 2013 20: 58 New
            +2
            he lives in a communal apartment (TRYING TO LIVE), but EATING BREWS HIMSELF IN THE ROOM! something like this.
            1. botur
              botur April 20 2013 21: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander-81
              EAT BREWS ON YOURSELF IN THE ROOM!

              But at the same time he goes to dinner in a nearby restaurant.
      2. Ribwort
        Ribwort April 20 2013 10: 29 New
        +6
        Quote: vadimus
        I do not want to have American-like children ..... Scary ...

        Wake up, they already are. Go to any site where students correspond (yes even in online games), you will be unpleasantly surprised by the lack of ELEMENTARY literacy ...
      3. omsbon
        omsbon April 20 2013 10: 36 New
        +9
        If it’s scary for our children, then we must fight so that stupid ministers, led by a lover of iPhones, resign! I did not mean all, but only those ministers who are ineffective!
        1. Alexander-81
          Alexander-81 April 20 2013 21: 02 New
          +1
          I live in the Tayshet, Irkutsk Region. Well, and how (me) US to fight him !!?
      4. Sirocco
        Sirocco April 20 2013 15: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: vadimus
        I do not want to have American-like children ..... Scary ...

        Late my friend, late, the patient died am The other day I was talking in the courtyard with schoolchildren on the topic of the Second World War. To put it mildly, about their knowledge about the Second World War, this is complete. According to them, the education system is built on self-education, teachers tell us if they tell, then in general terms. So they self-educate on benches and online clubs.
      5. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe April 20 2013 17: 32 New
        +6
        Quote: vadimus
        I do not want to have American-like children ..... Scary ...

        There is a simple way out. Find textbooks in all subjects from the 63rd to the 75th years and study with your children and grandchildren yourself. In addition to textbooks; a computer in the grandmother’s lock box, regular playing sports, reading books aloud, those that you yourself read in your childhood, completely turn off television broadcasting, watch Soviet films with detailed explanations of all the moments that were not clear to the children’s perception in the film’s events. to work, needlework and domestic self-service.
        1. Garrin
          Garrin April 20 2013 17: 38 New
          +4
          Quote: cherkas.oe

          There is a simple way out. Find textbooks in all subjects from the 63rd to the 75th years and study with your children and grandchildren yourself.

          With your permission, I’ll add.
          Do not look for a physics textbook by Pyoryshkin, but try to find Landsberg's 3-volume. It’s not rejection, but a vaccination of love for physics. Everything is very simple and affordable.
          1. Garrin
            Garrin April 21 2013 16: 27 New
            0
            Quote: Garrin
            Do not look for the physics textbook Pyoryshkin, but try to find Landsberg's 3-volume

            Mr. minuser, answer, what you do not like Landsberg's textbook? Or just like that, just fart in a puddle?
            One of the best courses in elementary physics, which has gained immense popularity. The advantage of the course is the depth of presentation of the physical side of processes and phenomena in nature and technology. For high school students and teachers of general and secondary special educational institutions, as well as persons engaged in self-education and preparing to enter a university.


            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir April 21 2013 19: 05 New
              +1
              Ladsberg can argue only those who do not understand what they mean, 100000 ... (0)
    2. donchepano
      donchepano April 20 2013 09: 54 New
      +6
      Quote: Belogor
      everyone knows about this and does not need to be Wasserman.

      Wasserman is an honest man.
      Education has long collapsed, like the entire industry, including the defense, pension and social systems, are wise, there is no normal law enforcement on the streets of the country ...
      There is no normal decent "owner" like Stalin
    3. elmi
      elmi April 20 2013 23: 18 New
      +3
      I do not understand the stubbornness of Medvedev and Putin in refusing to remove Livanov from his post, because almost all the Duma and the people are against him, however, judging by the long stay of Chubais in power, there is little to be surprised.
  2. fenix57
    fenix57 April 20 2013 06: 53 New
    +7
    However, it is scary, however, for our children, if this continues.
    Just yesterday, an acquaintance asked to help "attach" her son to the Suvorov School, the boy is 14 years old and his mother is afraid that he will "go into criminal romance", this is (probably there is) the notion that BARDAK IS IN EDUCATION. After all, Suvorov is still in order. .. GOD GRAY that there is still it-FORMATION PRESENT. hi
    1. Kaa
      Kaa April 20 2013 11: 10 New
      +5
      Quote: fenix57
      However, it is scary, however, for our children, if this continues.
      Western students are also afraid of innovations. "In 1982, with the aim of representing the social, cultural, political and economic interests of students and to influence educational structures at national, European and international levels, the National Union of European Students (ESIB) was created, uniting 11 million students from 37 European countries In 2003 ESIB published a bulletin on the results of the Bologna process in the European space. many students complained about low mobility opportunities (it turns out that when moving to another country, a student often needs to provide evidence that he has at his disposal a certain - rather large - amount of money (for Norway, for example, this is 9500 euros per year), if such evidence no - entry into the country is prohibited), too strong orientation of education to the needs of the market, outraged by the decline in the quality of education. Among the negative effects of the system were the inaccessibility of the magistracy (due to high pay), social inequality (again due to financial opportunities), and passivity of students (due to the lack of wide information about the process itself and due to the fact that all decisions are already accepted by the government). They also pointed to the arbitrary nature of the interpretation of the new rules, which results in confusion and a decline in the quality of education.
      There is some concern in the newsletter that most of the students ’expectations have not even begun to be realized, although the reform seems to have been in place for a long time. After 2 years, in May 2005, the European Student Unions Association (ESIB) issued The Black Book of the Bologna Process based on materials from students from 31 countries participating in the process. As the name implies, the book lists the numerous shortcomings of the reform (the inefficiency of the credit system, problems with the structure of the bachelor and master programs, the inaccessibility of the effect of mobility, the deterioration of the situation with access to education, etc.). More radical students from the Norwegian group Norsk Studentunion (NSU) are generally opposed to the original goals and principles of the Bologna process. In 2005, this movement was picked up by students from 40 organizations from different European countries who supported and participated in the European Education Forum held in Norway at the same time as the meeting of officials of the Bologna Process. Student Demonstrations Against Commercialization of Education Held in Many CountriesThus, we can conclude that the attitude towards the Bologna process in Europe is very ambiguous. Many students are unhappy with the reforms in the education system or consider the real changes to be inconsistent with what is described in the declaration.
  3. kind
    kind April 20 2013 06: 58 New
    +8
    In Western Europe, our university teachers are in great demand now.

    The education system retreated to the Middle Ages. This fact is obvious for a long time. The deadlock of such a path has been known since the late Middle Ages, and now we are forced to move along this path. Moreover, in countries that still consider themselves developed, it is already clear what this educational policy has led to. They are already experiencing a catastrophic shortage of personnel capable of doing at least something useful.

    I have already commented on a similar article. I repeat that the Soviet higher school was the best in the world! The West imposed the Bologna system on us in order to attract promising scientific personnel to itself.
  4. arkgrz
    arkgrz April 20 2013 07: 00 New
    +9
    the bear bastard is dirty everywhere wherever possible .. and not out of stupidity already .. well, it can’t be such an idiot .. it seems to me specially
    1. smile
      smile April 20 2013 21: 10 New
      +1
      arkgrz
      You know, there is a saying - "Simplicity is worse than theft." It seems to me that this is the case ... well, how can you be smart and tinker with these iPhones, tweaks, bells and whistles, tweets ... he would also advertise SMS messages, such a modernizer ... when he hits the talking shop, he blurs it - at least stop, at least fall ... perhaps as a performer he is not bad, I don't know, but the initiative should not be given to him in any case ... so that it is unlikely that he does something out of malice ...
  5. Dmitry T
    Dmitry T April 20 2013 07: 04 New
    +8
    While Medvedev is in government, nothing will help.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 20 2013 08: 39 New
      +4
      Not until this couple: the great political insignificance of its heads
      1. Dmitry T
        Dmitry T April 20 2013 09: 24 New
        +1
        It is Medvedev ...
      2. smile
        smile April 20 2013 21: 20 New
        +4
        ramsi
        Well, Putin can be called anything you like, but not a nothing ... in any case, he is a smart and strong person (let's not bark-good-bad), even adversaries and enemies admit this ... and who do you think is from the opposition more serious than Putin? Of all the opposition parties, the only party that offers worthy alternatives, and by no means always are the Communists ... but Zyuganov has settled down in the chair of the oppositionist who is always dissatisfied with everything and does not pull him into the role of head of state, he has no political will, he launched his own party and brought to a pen ... and populism in his words is no less than Putin’s (and without him it’s simply impossible in politics), and sometimes even more ... Who else? Prokhorov? marsh landlords (known by whose) in orderly rows wandering around the embassies? Feel free to tell ...
  6. Egen
    Egen April 20 2013 07: 25 New
    +9
    Abroad, in the classroom, they teach first of all the understanding of interconnections and patterns, and you look for facts yourself in your homework, then you tell them in class. For me, after the Soviet Polytechnic, where facts were hammered in, this was not usual at first, but interesting. And my actual (very good Soviet!) Base is easily normal and useful. How does it affect the people from a "blank slate"? Yes, the Americans are more "mathematically logically" developed, there is more knowledge in a narrow area - in what they do, but in general, IMHO, there is less knowledge and everything else. Well, the benefits of "mathematical logic", as Zadornov correctly said, is applicable only in a standard, unchanging environment like theirs, and in comparison with Russian logic, ingenuity, resourcefulness, and not even close - after all, we have more knowledge and experience in general.
    But this is all the little things.
    The worst thing is that we are now introducing (such as implemented) the same naturally-interconnected training system. My children are in school so. Maybe in principle such a system has advantages over the Soviet one, here I am not a scientist, I do not presume to prove it.
    BUT.
    The Americans, as it is written in the article, have “nurtured” such a system for more than 100 years, but we want it in a couple of years. It's a bullshit. And, moreover, they stupidly copy Western techniques without taking into account the mentality and national characteristics. And this is generally stupidity. Zadornov, even though he is a humorist, but generally a very smart man, he talked about this almost 20 years ago! :)
    And as a result of what we have? I often can't get into the logic of my children's math assignments at all. And Russian and literature in general: questions "what do you think from the text read ..." - both the child and we, the parents, write that we think so. And the teacher lowers the grades because she thinks it is wrong. But there is no logic or sense at all! If in our time Dostoevsky, for example, taught something, not only the use of an ax :), at least made you think, now in neutral tasks it is generally impossible to understand why they fly into one ear and fly into the other! In general, some kind of madhouse.
    But that would be half the trouble.
    Then these children come to college. And here finally a class! :) If in the middle of the 90 students I was thinking of blaming - not blaming, then for 5 years students are such that the teachers have only thoughts - at least someone would be pulled! Alas, the old guard of teachers is becoming less and less :(
    And then quite interesting :) Then graduates come to production. I remember in Soviet times it was: I came from the institute, forget everything that was hammered :) Of course, there is a lot of truth in every joke, but 20 and years later, knowledge from the institute comes in handy. And now graduates - and they have nothing to forget ...: ((
    Science ... I’m generally silent about it.
    This is me about engineering, medical, etc. specialties in which I myself work. About "money" is not so bad - everyone loves to count money :), but who will work ?!
    Therefore - what is written in the article is all clear a long time ago, finally someone came down from Olympus to our land, so what? Any suggestions?
    1. tarks
      tarks April 20 2013 07: 36 New
      +9
      Otozh. And then - does not take off, does not shoot, does not go and loves the west.
      Generally speaking, the FSB should closely monitor school education.
      1. Egen
        Egen April 20 2013 07: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: tarks
        Generally speaking, the FSB should closely monitor school education

        Well, guys, maybe it is different in Ukraine in your country, but in our country compared to the Soviet times:
        a) the order was reduced (although it must be admitted that the HR and prestige were greatly enhanced from the decline of the beginning of 90's)
        b) added a lot of new internal economic :) tasks.
        the question is - who will be specifically involved in the school?
    2. Kaa
      Kaa April 20 2013 18: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: Egen
      medical, etc. specialties in which I work

      I’m not a snob, but, knowing firsthand who and how they prepare in medical schools, I don’t turn to doctors after 1991. Leftovers are more expensive than their absence ...
  7. tarks
    tarks April 20 2013 07: 33 New
    +9
    ... a minister that everyone likes is a person who, most likely, is not quite coping with his duties. ...
    And what will Mr. Medvedev say about the person who don't like everyone?
    We had an electrician who did not like everyone. But there was someone's protege. Changed only after burning substation.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin April 20 2013 23: 24 New
      0
      Quote: tarks
      But there was someone's protege. Changed only after burning substation.

      And these, you see, will change when the country is burned. am
  8. DEDUCHKA
    DEDUCHKA April 20 2013 07: 43 New
    +8
    Medvedev's phrase in the State Duma: "What do you want, some ministers have not worked in the cabinet for a year." So after all, they do not go there to study, but must be professionals in their field. Yes, what can we comment on?
    1. Ribwort
      Ribwort April 20 2013 10: 42 New
      11
      Quote: DEDUCHKA
      And what do you want, some ministers in the cabinet have not worked for a year

      The head of the military unit has been dismissed and is handing over the affairs to the new commander. Along the way, he instructs: They will check you every year, so here are three envelopes to help you. As the check happens, open them one at a time.
      And so it happened. A year later, the check, and in the part "the horse was not lying around." Opens the first envelope - it says: "Excuse yourself by inexperience ..." And so he did. Like, I have been holding this position recently, I have no experience ... It has been carried over.
      In the second year, check. He opens the envelope - there is an inscription: "Shoot everything on me ..." Again he obeyed. The former head of the case did not conduct, part of it went in a terrible state ... And this time it worked.
      In the third year, check. Opens the package - there is an inscription: "PREPARE THREE ENVELOPES"
      PS I get the impression that in our government it is on this principle that they work ... what
    2. skeptic-
      skeptic- April 20 2013 12: 10 New
      +4
      Quote: DEDUCHKA
      Medvedev's phrase in the State Duma: "What do you want, some ministers have not worked in the cabinet for a year." So after all, they do not go there to study, but must be professionals in their field. Yes, what can we comment on?


      I studied in the "pre-perestroika" time, "thieves" came across very rarely. Now, the son (after the army) and the daughter study at the same University (budget), at different faculties, but they unite - the general picture is that more than two-thirds do not go to classes, and all tests are decided only through money. This, coupled with today's castrated education, simply deprives our science of the future. If Western students already realize that the money of knowledge will not replace and take to the streets in defense of their future. Most of our students are simply happy with a relaxed, "educational freebie" and do not yet realize that such "specialists" are not needed by anyone, therefore, very soon it may turn out that there will be no one to restore education.
      1. Frunze
        Frunze April 20 2013 15: 29 New
        0
        I agree with you, there is a constant war with my daughters on this subject, we are writing a diploma now, we are among the five best students of Moscow University. (Budget), NU AND So, I studied with my warrant officers and senior sergeants to be a father-commander, the rest do not have the right, send sovereign warriors into battle soldier
  9. fenix57
    fenix57 April 20 2013 07: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: tarks
    We had an electrician who did not like everyone. But there was someone's protege. Changed only after burning substation.

    Hmm. Only the "Head of Department" can "burn down the substation" ... hi
    1. Egen
      Egen April 20 2013 07: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: fenix57
      "Burn down the substation"

      yes substation is garbage in the current global economy :) ....
      1. Z.A.M.
        Z.A.M. April 20 2013 09: 01 New
        +5
        fenix57 "Burn the substation" yes, the substation garbage in the current global economy :) .... [/ quote]

        In the current global economy, as it turned out, the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station garbage.
        For Medvedev, Livanov is his "son of a bitch", for Putin - Serdyukov.
        1. Normal
          Normal April 20 2013 21: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: Z.A.M.
          for Putin - Serdyukov.

          I have been tormented by a question lately; and whose "son" is our president? Is it an orphan? Then you should be responsible for everything that happens in the country.
          Not responsible for anything ... Strange ...
          Maybe he is the "son of the regiment"? Then who are the commanding fathers?
    2. AK-47
      AK-47 April 20 2013 08: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: fenix57
      Hmm. Only the "Head of Department" can "burn down the substation" ...

      It can’t, not that scale. negative
      1. krasin
        krasin April 20 2013 09: 08 New
        +6
        We have one minister burned the defense industry, and nothing. winked
  10. fenix57
    fenix57 April 20 2013 08: 09 New
    +5
    Quote: DEDUCHKA
    Medvedev's phrase in the State Duma: "What do you want, some ministers have not worked in the cabinet for a year." So after all, they do not go there to study, but must be professionals in their field

    And the "prime minister" works with them, and then complains about the unsuitability of the ministers. You need to study earlier .... They know how to "earn" money, don't they ...
    The new is not the well-forgotten old. This is a stolen alien in time ...Someone taken to destroy OUR.
  11. kontrol
    kontrol April 20 2013 08: 41 New
    +4
    the government, according to the deputies, worked satisfactorily, and by what’s happening, it’s time to change it together with the prime minister with a bang wink
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 20 2013 09: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: kontrol
      deputies estimated government worked satisfactorily

      Oh, how comfortable we are! There are only two ratings - "satisfactory" and "unsatisfactory". But "satisfactory" is a C grade! fellow
      When will the ratings "good" and "excellent" for the government be introduced? fellow
      Or is the government unable to get to the heights of good and excellent students? laughing
  12. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 20 2013 08: 46 New
    +2
    Everyone who spoke about the reform of education and considered only their concept to be right did only worse ... everyone changes and changes, but it doesn’t get better recourse
  13. SEM
    SEM April 20 2013 08: 57 New
    +4
    In this case, we are following the path of America, that is, growing illiterate (uneducated) people, such a policy will lead us to one thing: Sorry, a weak-willed crowd who can be arbitrarily controlled in the vested interests of the ruling elite, that’s all, actually. This is not news, but soon it will be validity only if there is not enough mind in Russia to do so as it will lead to the enslavement of the country ....
  14. lubin
    lubin April 20 2013 09: 14 New
    +3
    Well, it’s necessary to bring education to such a state, and corruption, and violence against children. Well this is open sabotage. all fear lost. Dear RUSSIANS, is it not time to lift the moratorium on the death penalty? After all, what came down to it, laws are written for the RUSSIANS at the direction of the Americans, we are a colony for them. And why the hell with them thinking, strong RUSSIA. It’s scary for them, as if they didn’t get out of control. Well, there’s nothing for us to lose anymore, we are deprived of the future am
  15. Garrin
    Garrin April 20 2013 09: 22 New
    +2
    If the Minister of Education, the Minister of Health or the Prime Minister does not understand that the proposed path of reform is not even a dead end road, but a cliff, it is not professionally suitable. As for the growth in the number of universities and the number of students in them now, this growth may be due to the fact that the complexity of life and business has increased. Or maybe it is because higher education is used, in essence, as a continuing secondary. As far as I can tell, the second option is closer to the truth.

    Bravo, Onotole!
  16. valek
    valek April 20 2013 09: 24 New
    +3
    I agree with what is developed. No need to be a visionary to see that everything is ruined.
  17. Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich April 20 2013 10: 02 New
    +1
    Lavanov-RUBL / b / ёvsky is clearly tyranny / like Serdyukov / in the field of science and education and no one decides to him, the prime minister will like the main thing.
  18. My address
    My address April 20 2013 10: 03 New
    +2
    I repeat. See a slightly earlier comment on Shuvalov’s statement.
    Medvedev in the Duma actually stated that the majority in the country and the Duma do not understand how a bad minister is different from a good one. And this premiere was approved by the Duma, and no one shouted at him!
  19. aviamed90
    aviamed90 April 20 2013 10: 11 New
    +2
    It is amazing that Mr. Medvedev is so arrogant and arrogant! Does he really think that there is nobody smarter than him in the country? But he, for some reason, has zero efficiency both as prime minister and as president. But for the country he did NOTHING! And his logic is good: the minister does nothing, but he will not give up his position to anyone! Some kind of panopticon!
    1. Orik
      Orik April 20 2013 10: 44 New
      +3
      It is amazing that Mr. Medvedev is so arrogant and arrogant! Does he really think that there is nobody smarter than him in the country?


      And he has nothing left to do. request Arrogance and self-confidence, this is a cover for inner emptiness, you often see this in life.
  20. Svobodny
    Svobodny April 20 2013 10: 18 New
    +2
    "Everyone considers themselves to be a specialist in football training, education and treatment."
    Perhaps the key phrase. Nevertheless, there are many universities, the school is also not one or ten in the country. There is still a chance for Russian education. Not everything is so bad. Believe me, I have something to compare with))) In some parts of the CIS, things are much worse than the national average.
  21. washi
    washi April 20 2013 11: 43 New
    +4
    The educational system needs to be reformed, but (after what has been done with it), let's start from the 30s. Compulsory 8-year full education. After 8 years of screening. You study well - higher in the following classes, but already specializing (additional free classes + practical training). Bad - FZU, agricultural technical schools. While studying, working, he managed to interest the production manager - referral to the university with payment from production. And just like that - pay for higher education.
    Paid higher education is needed at the moment. We divorced a lot of obscure personalities, not only with higher, but also academic education. However, their knowledge does not even meet the requirements of the Soviet high school. Remember, so many Soviet designers started with FZU.
    And in the leadership of the country to put a person who has not gone his way from production, service - it is impossible
  22. Egoza
    Egoza April 20 2013 12: 37 New
    +4
    Quote: Vasya
    Paid higher education is needed at the moment. We divorced a lot of obscure personalities, not only with higher, but also academic education. However, their knowledge does not even meet the requirements of the Soviet high school.

    That's all thanks to paid education and is happening. Must be 1. State order for a specific number of specialists needed by the country. With a mandatory referral to the first 2-3 years to work. 2. Normal exams at the university. So that the poor can go to college. Here they will surely rely only on knowledge, because there is no money for bribes for offsets!
  23. knn54
    knn54 April 20 2013 13: 38 New
    +1
    Vasya. Paid higher education is necessary at the moment.
    Only a fee for knowledge, not for a session. As a result, there is a bunch of "blatniks" with diplomas, who do not know anything, because they entered the university for parental money "to get a crust for the sake of".
    US schools do not provide training for high school graduates of the required level, but why? Science / technology is promoted due to "brain drain" from other countries, including Russia and Ukraine. By the way, many Microsoft programs are written in Russian and only then are translated, and our brother is enough in Silicon Valley.
    The strength of our school is still in the fact that it still gives, thanks to the "Soviet legacy", fundamental knowledge and the ability to use it, and then universities continue to do this. And a person trained in fundamental knowledge and their application is easily oriented in any kind of activity and is capable of further learning, for which there are many examples. And to return exams instead of tests - schoolchildren / students are not taught, but "trained" on the answers from the tests.
    Education is "bent" due to the aging of teachers, equipment, constant underfunding, degrades in conditions of complete isolation from reality. The labor market for engineers / technologists has decreased by orders of magnitude, and the number of specialized specialists graduated remains.
    And the minister needs finances and the right to share them! Something, "in order to save financial resources" to destroy. And boys / girls-managers will send them (at their own discretion) to "priority projects". By the way, for 1500 vacancies of sales managers - 150 engineering positions. Managers are trained by all and sundry. The darkness of commercial (not state) financial and legal academies. They release a lot. They teach shitty. There are no traditions, no literate teachers. Education does not correspond to the labor market, either quantitatively or qualitatively. And yet, a certified engineer-technologist now receives a salary of about 15 thousand rubles, and a mid-level manager of Gazprom with any diploma will be hired for at least 50 to begin with. , the education system has nothing to do with it.
  24. deman73
    deman73 April 20 2013 15: 11 New
    +2
    We have such ministers of reformers in full I propose to export them laughing
  25. fenix57
    fenix57 April 20 2013 15: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Egoza
    When will the ratings "good" and "excellent" for the government be introduced?
    Or is the government unable to get to the heights of good and excellent students?

    I suggest:
    -satisfactory;
    - directly.
    Good and excellent by definition is not possible ..
    Quote: Vasya
    Paid higher education is needed at the moment. We divorced a lot of obscure personalities, not only with higher, but also academic education. Moreover, their knowledge does not even meet the requirements of the Soviet high school

    And let's pay MEDIUM .. A ... THOUSAND FROM 50 PER YEAR, request LET'S EDUCATION, SO ON ... LEBANOVO- ON CREDIT. Well, if the parents can not, then sucks. SO YOURSELF .. negative
  26. Ulysses
    Ulysses April 20 2013 16: 09 New
    +2
    I would have appointed Wasserman as prime minister instead of iPhone.
    Dreams Dreams.
  27. Black
    Black April 20 2013 16: 22 New
    0
    I have recently spoken out about education reforms. I repeat.
    I consider the reforms of higher education, the actual elimination of vocational education, secondary special education to be a failure. But, the fact that reforms in higher education were needed is a fact, another thing is how they went and are going.
    As for high school. I consider it a clear miscalculation, the elimination of special schools, the reduction of children's creativity centers, and muses of schools.
    Otherwise, the middle school has made very good progress. The national education program has poured into schools, incl. and in the hinterland there is serious money, injections comparable to 30-year-olds in 2-3 years. The mater was updated, new modern technologies came.
    And most importantly - the paradigm of education is changing (I note, not just at times, gradually). Creative, search, problematic methods become profiling in the methods. At the senior level = education profile makes it possible to purposefully prepare a graduate.
    USE. The devil is not so terrible as he is painted. IMHO-it is necessary to cancel it in the linguistic-cultural subjects, mathematics, physics is quite to itself.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin April 20 2013 16: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Chen
      USE. The devil is not so terrible as he is painted. IMHO-it is necessary to cancel it in the linguistic-cultural subjects, mathematics, physics is quite to itself.

      Yes, testing never replaces the live communication of the examiner and the examiner.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe April 20 2013 17: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: Garrin
        Yes, testing never replaces the live communication of the examiner and the examiner.

        And I would add: I will never bring in a creative and psychological component in the development of a self-sufficient person who defends her point of view on understanding this or that problem.
  28. Rrv
    Rrv April 20 2013 16: 28 New
    +3
    Here we are sitting, gentlemen, good, we read, we are indignant, we are angrily pawing on the keyboard with our paws, but do we ask ourselves the question - what actually happens? After all, the same institution of education does not collapse on its own, it is allowed and helped to collapse.

    Who creates the system at which the collapse occurs? Who chooses, appoints the guys who carry out this collapse?

    The bottom line is that we have a sort of popularly elected president who is the guarantor of the Constitution and there is a majority party, also sort of like a popularly elected one. We have a government formed by many unloved DAMs and a guarantor who brought DAM into Power, recommended him as the best candidate for the presidency, and now, despite everything, he continues to hold him close to him.

    And here the question arises - if the situation in the country, in its key nodes, deteriorates every year, if no one bears any responsibility for mistakes or sabotage in the most important aspects of the country's life, if all the "shoals" of the Power look like a purposefully created system, if the guarantor The Constitution does not guarantee the Constitution in any way - can we say that the Power works in the interests of the country? Maybe the reason for most, if not all, of our problems lies in our choices and those we chose?
    1. smile
      smile April 20 2013 23: 22 New
      0
      Rrv
      Fuck kill, but I do not understand why you think that we are deteriorating in all respects? This argument is already banal like a log on the forehead, but why can't you see the positive dynamics compared to the end of the nineties ... just don't talk about the price of oil, when Pu came to power it was about the same as then , when Gorbachev and then Yeltsin tore the country alive ... the only difference is that under Pu, the entire oil and mining industry was ALREADY plundered ... you seem to be saying the right things, with most of which you simply cannot disagree ... but your conclusions look no less populist than the election campaign of a presidential candidate ... any candidate ... yeah ... down with the anti-popular government ... you get the impression that you will not like any achievement a priori ... if not a secret, but which politician do you like more ... tell me. and then apply your favorite critical approach to it and see what you have done ... you are unlikely to like the result ... yeah, and you can still ask where Putin or another president can take honest cadres of managers and officials whose formation is not fell on the era of the decline of our morality, when professionalism was assessed not by the achievement of the enterprise you are managing, but by the virtuosity of taking money away and bringing it to some Cayman Islands, in the era of introducing the slogan - "Get rich" into the consciousness of our people. first think about yourself ... and then about yourself, but don't think about the state and others, these are their problems ...
      1. Rrv
        Rrv April 21 2013 02: 13 New
        0
        Why do I think that, let's say - "everything is bad"?
        Because, with the exception of the nuances of a populist sense (like 38, if I’m not mistaken, plants built by Rusnano, which by and large do not work anyway), all systemic issues are resolved disgustingly.
        Because the idea of ​​a fixed guarantor - GDP growth - is provided not by production growth, but by rising prices (raw materials, energy, tariffs) and an increase in the number of all kinds of intermediary firms.
        Because the minimum wage in the Russian Federation - SOCIAL under the constitution of the state - as a percentage is 3 times less than in the liberal United States.
        Because the president, while voicing success in containing inflation, is corny lying, voicing average inflation indicators, and inflation for goods and services of mass consumption and basic necessities has continued to be on average 25% per year.
        Because whatever reform you take (pensions, medicine, education, army) - the reform is a failure, and no one bears responsibility for the failure. Etc.
        Your "positive dynamics" is de facto the dynamics of regression for 75% of the country's citizens (the rise in oil prices, by the way, does not depend on Putin).
        It’s a continuation of the hunchback-EBNinsky course, and the difference is that the EBN has picked everything up for himself and his own, and Putin is rowing for himself and his environment.

        As for politicians, there is apparently a fundamental difference between you and me: you like people, and the program and course are important to me. And it is Putin’s neoliberal course that I do not like first of all.
        I am interested in the personality of a politician insofar as his psychological qualities and behavior in society indicate what kind of policy he will implement, but there is a problem with Putin: not only is Putin pursuing a liberal policy and working for liberal Sobchak apparently the case to the last kept the CPSU party membership card (which indicates its unscrupulousness), so also a logical analysis of the history with the disappearance of 122 lyam bucks in St. Petersburg suggests with a high degree of probability that Putin, if he was not the main the defendant, at least was involved.

        Now about honest personnel: the Zaputinists have one argument - who if not Putin, etc. laughing Understand - if you do not know a worthy person, this does not mean that there are no such people - take for example medicine: the names of Bokeria or Roshal tell you something? People with a great reputation, excellent specialists both in medicine and in administration and management - if you do not agree, then you can persuade if you wish. But no one offers, and instead of them, the speckled deck is shuffled, and then Zurabov, then Golikova, and now Skvortsova become the Minister of Health. Do these characters know better than Roshal? Hardly. What is the problem then?
        And the fact is that Roshal has nothing to do with the "clan".

        On the topic of "tying" I recommend reading the old, but interesting information: www.election2012.ru

        On Pu, by and large, I do not care, I am not satisfied with the current neoliberal course leading to the death of both the country and its citizens, and the surname "Putin" is used as a personification of Power (not everyone should be named by surname) soldier
        1. smile
          smile April 21 2013 04: 39 New
          0
          Rrv
          Thanks for the answer .. I will answer briefly, I want to sleep:
          the first third, about the welfare state, please do not speak. our economy is not built, unlike the one with which you compare, by selling unsecured cut paper, painted green in the kitchen (I hope we won’t swear why this happened) and taking control of other people's resources with the help of the armed forces ..... about the presidential lie, it’s estimated data, and ALL appraisers are not impartial, yours are no better than presidential ... and most importantly, regardless of everything else, compare the living standards of the population in the 90s and now .... to say the least not in favor of your version .... but what we cannot confidently control oil prices - so this is our crap .... but now we can at least influence it, unlike the 90s and even the end of the 80s ...

          by the second third ...: in spite of all our differences with which you focus, you still couldn’t voice a more adequate candidacy ... well, you don’t have any options, which significantly reduces the value of your reasoning .... and Unfortunately, our state policy is more connected with the personality of the head of state than with the party that supports it ... is it possible that you will argue with me here?
          in the last third ...: here you have a very fluid (of course. within the framework of our dispute) ... you named two names ... you mentioned the term "zaputintsy" (you see a garden in my stone) ... and ... all !!!!! .... sorry, but where is the answer? There is such a wonderful book Shein. Ulanov "Order in the tank troops" ... there, among other things, the correspondence of the factories is briefly transmitted. disengaged from the production of difficult-to-manufacture armor-piercing shells and others. even more complex parts and units of the BTT ... take a look, I was amazed at how much the language of the bureaucrats of that time was similar to the present, and caught myself thinking that, given the manning of our troops, BS. that the evil Stalin was gentle. like a plush Teddy ... for such deeds, which left our such corps at the beginning of the war with ammunition to 76 mm guns in general with practically no armor-piercing shells - not planting, it was necessary to hang publicly in the squares ... so why do you think that Putin should to be more effective than Stalin? Or are you thirsty for blood? And you did not answer a specific question ... so. the usual populist verbiage, and much worse than that of the Power you criticize ..... sorry for the harshness, but when the individuals criticizing the power are engaged in the same bad deeds as the objects of their criticism, only on a large scale. they look pathetic and disgusting ... aha.won how briefly it turned out ... he was surprised, well. the topic is sore ...
          1. Rrv
            Rrv April 21 2013 19: 45 New
            +1
            Have mercy, Vladimir, how not to talk about the social state? That it must be socially recorded in the basic law. Moreover, if the state does not work for the interests of the majority of its citizens, then it is not only not democratic (as it is constantly declared), but generally loses the meaning of its existence.

            You explain the lack of sociality by economic reasons, and that means you either consciously substitute concepts or don’t understand the essence of the issue - it’s not the lack of development or underdevelopment of the Russian economy, but (as I wrote above) the chosen neoliberal course, the adoption of laws that are inappropriate to the interests of the majority, in the failure to comply with laws that correspond to the interests of the majority and in the absence of responsibility for their failure: for example, in the liberal US, the minimum wage is 33% of GDP per capita, and in the social state of Russia - 12%. In the liberal USA, tax revenues (budget) are 25% of GDP, and in Russia - 14% (it is worth noting that before the adoption of a flat, and de facto regressive, tax scale, which seemed to increase tax collection, this collection was 20% of GDP). In the United States, if an embezzlement is detected, the official faces a real long term, confiscation and a fine, and we are adopting laws that substitute compensation for harm and punishment by the act of purchase and sale, etc. etc.
            All the results of the action of the system being built today indicate that it does not work for the interests of most citizens, but for the Power itself and for the business affiliated with the Power, that is, for an insignificant part of society.
            As for the improvement of the situation compared with the 90s, the merits of Pu and his acquaintances in this matter are very doubtful.
            To the account of the appraisers: I give the assessments myself, based on my own or personally verified calculations and analysis, so in this respect I am fairly impartial. And the foundation from which I proceed from my conclusions is personal observations and scientifically sound definitions of the minimum worthy existence of a relevant modernity.

            "... despite all ours ..." - I will argue. My view of politics is not related to personality, it is related to the activities of a politician. Need a surname? Boldyrev - would love to look at his activities as president. Again, why not Zyuganov, for example? Aren't elections just to try out politicians and parties?

            "... for the last third ..." - and you, excuse me, want me to comment in the format of a comment, not having full detailed information, not having consultants at hand (in various spheres of political, economic, economic and social activities) - posted would you like a detailed program of a political party? )))
            Why by the way do you not think that Putin should be more effective than Stalin? The development process itself suggests that future generations are more effective than previous ones.
            My "verbiage", in contrast to the verbiage of the authorities, does not affect the life of the country. You also seem to have no reason to ascribe to me "the same bad deeds". Why is Putin better than the rest (presidential candidates, for example), you apparently also find it difficult to say, so it turns out that you are just "liquid" - you are criticizing my opinion, while not providing a single fact that refutes this opinion.

            And lastly - you can talk for a long time on the topics of staff shortages, task complexity, sabotage, etc. That's just to take into account the hypothetical difficulties that Mr. Putin is faced with, no one is absolutely obligated: they do not ask the employee who does not fulfill his own responsibilities for the reasons why he can’t cope with his duties - they simply dismiss him. And Pu is just such a hired worker.
  29. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 20 2013 17: 47 New
    +3
    In light of what Mendel said in the State Duma about Minister Livanov, I wanted to dig out the grandfathers' sawn-off shotgun and talk face to face with both (the bleed is so that the guards do not interfere with the conversation), and I can handle these two sons of David.
  30. Bob
    Bob April 20 2013 19: 08 New
    +1
    ... a minister that everyone likes is a person who, most likely, is not quite coping with his duties ....
    LADIES here and much else where it carries complete "nonsense".
    To refute his abstruse words, I’ll give an example of Minister Shoigu - everyone likes it because it copes with its duties, while the goal of being liked in his activities is not noticed, unlike Dima himself. DAM may soon become a household name of DOWN.
    The bad thing is that in the downs he wants to transform the Russian people (he is unlikely to succeed) and, which is very sad, children (he is already close to this by introducing the Unified State Exam, destroying classical education). For this, the "restructuring" of education in a Western way is being carried out. A little more and they will kill the teachers, have already dealt with pedagogical education, and then there will be no teachers capable of teaching anything, there will be a predictable management of a crowd of weak-willed people of the consumer society, raised on animal instincts.
  31. Normal
    Normal April 20 2013 20: 00 New
    +1
    “You don't have to be a meteorologist to say it's already raining.” Similarly: one does not have to be a scientist to say that the education system has already collapsed.

    Belogor Today, 06:14
    Just a fact of fact, everyone knows about it and does not need to be Wasserman.

    I am joining. Wasserman hit the sky with his finger.
    Quote: donchepano
    Wasserman is an honest man.

    Lately, I doubt it.
    If the Minister of Education, the Minister of Health or the Prime Minister does not understand that the proposed path of reform is not even a dead end, but a precipice, he is professionally unsuitable.

    To be honest, we need to continue the list of professionally unsuitable. It turns out that everyone is not keeping up and only one president is keeping up.
    Quote: donchepano
    There is no normal decent "owner" like Stalin

    But there is Putin, and the "honest" Wasserman says this about him:
    http://topwar.ru/22671-anatoliy-vasserman-glavnyy-itog-2012-goda-vtoroe-prishest
    vie-putina-na-post-prezidenta-rf.html

    After this article, I adjusted my opinion about Wasserman.
    1. Garrin
      Garrin April 20 2013 22: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Normal
      To be honest, we need to continue the list of professionally unsuitable. It turns out that everyone is not keeping up and only one president is keeping up.

      Now they will answer you with a volt with Esaul. Some of us hde.
      1. Normal
        Normal April 21 2013 08: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Garrin
        Now they will answer you with a volt with Esaul

        Greetings, Igor.
        Esaul basically does not answer me, apparently does not consider it worthy. He has other, old and proven opponents.
        John is a self-sufficient quantity. In order to "surprise" us once again with his creativity, he does not need an irritant. He's already rushing laughing Apparently he has his own stimulating factor, which is beyond our control.
        But why is there no personal "curator"? I'm already starting to worry ... lol Ruslanchi-and-ik ... Where are you? I wrote a post here, but you did not check in ... Disorder ... laughing
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 April 21 2013 14: 35 New
          +2
          Did you miss Volodenka? wassat I’ll disappoint: I myself am suspicious of Wasserman. request
          Quote: Normal
          then you need to continue the list of professionally unsuitable.

          Yes, I would also continue it only from our opinion, not a damn thing
          1. Normal
            Normal April 21 2013 19: 26 New
            0
            And here he is - a bad tooth!
            Quote: Ruslan67
            Did you miss Volodenka?

            Not a little thing, Ruslanushka. I’m just worried - have you got sick? Didn’t the car crush you? Did your icicle fall in the dark? crying No? Well, thank God....
            In general, unlike you, I don’t miss srach and the need for
            grabbing for a change
            not experiencing.

            Quote: Ruslan67
            I am suspicious of Wasserman

            Baby, what about me ??? I’m better than sob ... Wasserman.
            I already made several posts, but you don’t comment, Are you getting old? laughing
            Yes, I would continue it too

            No, Ruslanushka. Not your profile. Your calling is heroic. With trolls fight and flood. And comments on the topic and with meaning do not succeed.
            from our opinion does not change

            This is how to say it. From someone's opinion, nothing changes. And for someone, the word is already a matter.
            PS
            If nothing changes from your opinion, can you keep your opinion about my statements to yourself?
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 April 21 2013 20: 21 New
              +2
              Quote: Normal
              And here he is - a bad tooth!

              Hello, darling! Long time no see fellow
              Quote: Normal
              did you get sick? Didn’t the car crush you? Did your icicle fall in the dark?

              And you do not get sick love
              Quote: Normal
              In general, unlike you, I don’t miss srach

              Boring live comrade! wassat
              Quote: Normal
              Baby, what about me ??? I’m better than myself ..

              Worse request Sorry for the harshness, but unlike you, dogs can't talk.
              Quote: Normal
              I’ve already made several posts, but you don’t comment

              Write some kind of liberal-revolutionary crap to comment winked
              Quote: Normal
              Not your profile. Your calling is heroic. With trolls fight and flood. And comments on the topic and with meaning do not succeed.

              Attention! belay But trying to explain to zombies that numbers slogans and advertising slogans and real life are two different things recourse It’s better to flood wassat This is by the way not about you
              Quote: Normal
              . From someone's opinion, nothing changes. And for someone, the word is already a matter.

              God help you! it's no joke
              Quote: Normal
              If nothing changes from your opinion, can you keep your opinion about my statements to yourself?

              You will not get it bully
              1. Normal
                Normal April 21 2013 21: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Boring live comrade!

                Don’t say it. Everyone has their own joys and entertainment. I have to think and argue. You shit and flood. To each his own.
                Quote: Ruslan67
                Worse

                The main thing is not worse than you. laughing
                Quote: Ruslan67
                But trying to explain to zombies that numbers slogans and advertising slogans and real life are two different things

                Did you understand what you wrote? Here and the zombies what, and numbers, and slogans, and real life. (horses were mixed in a bunch, people) belay
                Yeah ... Better flood.
                Quote: Ruslan67
                I will comment on crap

                I have no doubt ... Now I can write anything at all. One but faithful and loyal reader, I will always have laughing
                Quote: Ruslan67
                You will not get it

                Yes, I did not hope, to be honest. He asked for order and a clear conscience. hi
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 April 21 2013 22: 34 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Normal
                  I have to think and argue.

                  belay what angry negative crying am good Keep it up!
                  Quote: Normal
                  . Now I can write anything at all. One but faithful and loyal reader, I will always have

                  Have pity on admins and moderators - they also have to wassat
                  Quote: Normal
                  Yes, I did not hope, to be honest. He asked for order and a clear conscience.

                  Has conscience cleared? Relieved laughing Let's go further?
                  1. Normal
                    Normal April 21 2013 23: 54 New
                    +1
                    Have pity on the admins ...

                    For the administration and moderators, I will write normally, and crap exclusively for you.
                    Relieved

                    Everyone thinks the best of their depravity.
                    Let's go further?

                    Touch, my dear ...
                    1. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 April 22 2013 00: 01 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Normal
                      For the administration and moderators, I will write normally, and crap exclusively for you.

                      Volodya good You yourself understood what you wrote what lol
                      Quote: Normal
                      Everyone thinks the best of their depravity.

                      I am not talking about that request What are you talking about?
                      Quote: Normal
                      Touch, my dear ...

                      Well, I'm not a wife to touch you repeat In principle, you begin to correct winked I would also have learned to be rude and smart and distinguish when the conversation is serious and when it’s just fun and banter drinks hi that
                    2. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 April 22 2013 00: 02 New
                      +2
                      Catch a plus for trying laughing
                      1. Normal
                        Normal April 22 2013 02: 09 New
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        You yourself understood what you wrote

                        We plagiarize slowly?
                        Quote: Normal
                        Do you understand what you wrote?

                        I usually understand what I am writing. Well, I’ll especially explain it to you.
                        Neither the administrators nor the moderators (well, with the exception of the rodent eater) made no claims to me about the content of my comments. But if you try, you can probably find there even "crap" As the saying goes, whoever is looking will always find it. So someone sees a certain position in my posts, and someone sees trolling and crap; who wants to see what.
                        Am I not very difficult to set out? laughing
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        I am not talking about that

                        Freudian reservation.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        What are you talking about?

                        And I’m not talking about anything. repeat Tokmo is about good. laughing
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Well, I'm not a wife to touch you

                        Again Freud's reservation. laughing What has the wife to do with it? You said "let's go further?" , and I "poked the coachman in the back with a cane" and said "touch, my dear" laughing And you’re getting somewhere wrong. Problems? lol
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        In principle, you begin to correct

                        Do not wait ...
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Still would learn to be rude more elegantly

                        Yes, much more elegant. And so more than half you do not understand. You would have about shovels from shovels ...
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        distinguish when the conversation is serious and when just fun and banter

                        Ruslan, what kind of serious conversation can there be between us? You wanted to dig in and have fun, well, so you get your kaif. Or do you want me to take this seriously. to tear the soul, worry and take to heart close? Well, do not tell me please. But if you are serious, then write like that; I'm serious. And then I'm stupid and I do not distinguish the banter from a serious conversation, especially in your performance.
                      2. Normal
                        Normal April 22 2013 02: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Catch a plus for trying

                        Thank you very much. I don’t know how I was honored with this.
                        Century you, master, I will remember. I’ll write a memorial and I will punish grandchildren for praying.
                        Grace has descended upon me, Lord!
                        After all, there are good people on earth; they will not let the abyss of poverty and orphanage.
                        May the Lord extend your years! May your generation extend forever!
                        Yes, he will glorify ... yes he will instruct .... yes he will preserve and increase ..... yes ...... yes ........
                        The carriage was already hiding behind the hillock and the peasant all bowed after her, was baptized, but muttered something. And large, like children's tears rolled down his weathered, wrinkled face ....
  32. vvp901
    vvp901 April 20 2013 20: 44 New
    +2
    Ask any director of a Russian school what he is doing? They are developing budgetary and parental money. They don’t think about education there but only create it.
  33. varov14
    varov14 April 20 2013 20: 50 New
    0
    Just half-educated people who have in their head a mixture of God, mysticism, oracles, clairvoyants, aliens gathered one heap, are building a country for themselves, the same unfinished and underdeveloped.
  34. varov14
    varov14 April 20 2013 20: 50 New
    +3
    Just half-educated people who have in their head a mixture of God, mysticism, oracles, clairvoyants, aliens gathered one heap, are building a country for themselves, the same unfinished and underdeveloped.
  35. tank64rus
    tank64rus April 20 2013 21: 39 New
    +5
    I remembered the "dashing" 90s then, too, the Gaidar government asked what you were doing and they answered our firing positions, but our goal was "reform". The people felt the result on their own skin. But it is clear that the "reformers" of Gaidar's school cannot calm down or there is no one to appease them. They also need to crank up the privatization, otherwise the lads have run out of money, they spent money on the Canaries.
    1. smile
      smile April 20 2013 23: 08 New
      0
      tank64rus
      Eh, it was necessary to catch these benefactors in a word (about shooting) ... :))))), and their very bastardism is precisely that. that they still claim that they did everything right ... and if something didn’t work out, they were prevented ...
  36. Spike
    Spike April 20 2013 21: 56 New
    +4
    Cattle easier to manage. Remember: "Bread and circuses !!!"
  37. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir April 20 2013 23: 13 New
    +1
    You do not have to be a scientist to say that the education system is already ruined

    Mrs. Russia proved it well, unfortunately
  38. v53993
    v53993 April 21 2013 06: 16 New
    0
    Dima makes a fool of the Duma,
    The Duma makes a fool of Dima
    Dima thinks a thought.
  39. gregor6549
    gregor6549 April 21 2013 18: 23 New
    0
    The education system, like everything else, began to fall apart even when a handful of "comrades" were given the go-ahead to privatize everything that had been created by the entire people over the decades. So this system has long been gone, but there is a certain conglomerate of fragments of former state and current commercial educational institutions that offer young people an illusory opportunity to get a decent education for completely non-illusory grandmothers. At the same time, the owners / managers of these structures generally prefer to teach their children in "terribly stupid" foreign universities. They bake these structures in a huge number of candidates and doctors of all kinds of sciences, who, God forbid, can count to ten. So Mr. Wasserman was somewhat late in summing up the results. They have been let down for a long time.