Military Review

Ukrainian authorities prevent the renewal of the Black Sea Fleet’s weapons

97

The Ukrainian leadership impedes the renewal of ship structure and armaments of the Black Sea fleet Of Russia. This was stated today by ITAR-TASS, a senior representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.


According to him, "the current Ukrainian leadership, as was the case under President Viktor Yushchenko, insists that this activity can be carried out only with the permission and under the control of the Ukrainian authorities."

The representative of the Russian military department also blamed the Ukrainian side for dragging out negotiations on the preparation of agreements "necessary to ensure the normal functioning of the Black Sea Fleet."

“Thus, due to the reluctance of the Ukrainian side, the issue of canceling customs duties when importing material and technical means and goods for the Black Sea Fleet to Ukraine is not being resolved. Meanwhile, an analysis of Ukrainian legislation and the Russian-Ukrainian contractual base showed that their collection was unjustified. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu during his first meeting with the head of the military department of Ukraine Pavel Lebedev on February 20 in Sevastopol, but Kiev is evading his decision, "said the source.

The high-ranking representative of the ministry stated that a number of other unresolved problems remained in ensuring the functioning of the Black Sea Fleet on the territory of Ukraine, the negotiations on the settlement of which are moving "with substantial difficulties." "In particular, in the 2008 after the events in the Caucasus, the then President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko signed two decrees (numbers 705 and 706), which, in contradiction with the" basic "agreements on the Black Sea Fleet from 1997, introduced a permitting procedure for movement of the Black Sea Fleet formations and banned simplified regime of crossing the state border of Ukraine by them. Repeated demands of Russia to cancel their action as inconsistent with the “basic” agreements have not yet yielded results, ”he said.

Commenting on the question that the Minister of Defense of Ukraine raised at a meeting with Shoigu in Sevastopol 20 February this year - the possibility of the Black Sea Fleet’s allocation of a berth for the parking of the Ukrainian diesel submarine Zaporizhia - source ITAR-TASS noted that the Ukrainian side had received a significant amount during the Black Sea Fleet division equipped bases for submarines, including those located in the Balaklava bay of Sevastopol. "However, in the future, these places and the related infrastructure were not used and were lost by the Ukrainian side. As a result, the Ukrainian Navy currently has no capacity to host its submarine," the military official said.

“As for Russia,” he continued, “during the time of the Black Sea Fleet operation, its moorings were always used as intended and are in good condition. Going towards the Ukrainian side and acting in a partnership key, the Black Sea Fleet command discussed this issue with the command of the Ukrainian Navy. It was decided to submit this matter for consideration by the subcommittee on the functioning of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian-Ukrainian Interstate Commission ".

Submarine "Zaporozhye" - the only submarine available from the Ukrainian Navy. She got out of service, got out of whack and was unable to dive. Last year, this submarine completed repairs and was actually restored in Sevastopol at the 13-m repair plant of the Black Sea Fleet. The preparation of the Ukrainian crew of the boat on the Russian submarine "Alrosa" was led by Russian Black Sea sailors, who ensured the commissioning of the Zaporozhye.
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97 comments
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  1. Anon
    Anon April 17 2013 11: 32
    29 th
    For some reason I’m not surprised. In the navy they cannot. Ukraine has always been good with armored vehicles, and riveting the world's best MBT and armored personnel carrier is expensive. Respect for Ukrainians, in short.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 11: 45
      11
      Quote: Anon
      In the navy they cannot

      Quote: Anon
      Ukraine has always been good with armored vehicles

      But what about the ships built at the shipyards in Nikolaev?
      1. Cossack
        Cossack April 17 2013 12: 49
        19
        About ships built at factories, not shipyards (these are two huge differences), I know Nikolaev firsthand, because I graduated from the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Institute even when it was a strong and powerful university. By the way, there are only two such universities - in St. Petersburg and Nikolaev. I also visited ChSZ and the 61st shipbuilding plant. "Ocean" was engaged in shipbuilding. I was also on ships under construction and under repair. And I will say the following. For example, the aircraft carrier "Kuznetsov" built more than 2000 adjacent Slightly fewer subcontractors were involved in the construction of BODs, missile cruisers and other warships and auxiliary ships. ChSY is a unique shipbuilding enterprise not only in the former Soviet Union, but also in the world. It has huge potential. But not a single shipyard, not even the most sophisticated, cannot work without cooperation. And at the moment the 61st plant is completely killed (they even try to destroy it physically, that is, to demolish it, but have not yet decided on such a radical step), ChSZ is practically killed and robber en (part of the territory was sold for the Nubilon grain complex, a new outfitting site built for nuclear aircraft carriers is now occupied by a huge elevator, the main workshops have been looted, there was a time when they tried to destroy and cut even unique 900-ton cranes for scrap). There is no one to work at these factories ... Specialists are needed, not just ordinary welders and untrained ship assemblers. ChSZ is interrupted by small ship repair of Russian river-sea and the construction of barges for Nubilon. True, Ukrainian was laid on it. invisible corvette ..., but nobody sees it ... in short, cut the dough.
        In Feodosia, the enterprise "More" (which produced SVP landing ships) is a corpse, "Leninskaya Kuznitsa" in Kiev is a corpse ... There is no shipbuilding in Ukraine ... And this is a shame to tears ... In any case, for me, as a shipbuilding engineer.
        1. avt
          avt April 17 2013 13: 23
          +4
          Quote: Cossack
          . The truth on it laid Ukrainian. the invisible corvette ... but nobody sees anything of it ..

          So he is invisible! Here it is not visible, and no one will see it. But against the background of the magnificence that was being done at Nikolaev shipyards ... request I don’t feel like joking anymore.
          1. alexander rus.
            alexander rus. April 17 2013 14: 41
            +1
            Original joke. Laugh!
        2. d.gksueyjd
          d.gksueyjd April 17 2013 16: 37
          0
          Quote: Cossack
          The truth is laid on it Ukrainian. the invisible corvette ... but nobody sees anything of it.

          He is invisible!
          1. Cossack
            Cossack April 17 2013 17: 27
            0
            So otozh ... the people do not know how to build it ... not a damn thing is visible ...... request
        3. RMRS
          RMRS April 17 2013 18: 02
          +1
          Hello colleague hi In any case, in Kherson, they release something periodically, but alas, not at the former pace (Those pace is nowhere to be found, that's unfortunate.
          1. Cossack
            Cossack April 17 2013 19: 23
            +2
            Good afternoon, colleague! Yes, KhSZ has handed over the lead river-sea tanker pr.RST27 (deadweight 7041t) and two more are under construction. True, the Okskaya shipyard and Krasnoe Sormovo have already delivered 14 vessels of this project and 8 more are under construction. These are VF vessels Tanker "from number 1 to number 20 and three more with" names ". As they say ... let's feel the difference sad .And in general KhSZ is engaged in ship repair of Volgo-Balts and Volgo-Donov ... Well, you understand that complete shipbuilding is a completely different conversation. And when that shipyard was building tankers and Arctic suppliers of Vitus Bering type. ..But it's good that KhSZ is building at least something now ... Although there are also full of problems with salaries and other things ... Greetings to you from the banks of the Don to the banks of the Neva!
            1. RMRS
              RMRS April 17 2013 21: 39
              +1
              Yes, our current boss did not work badly in Nizhny, plus there is a program for the development of the river fleet, so they are building it slowly. Of course, they collect ships a little bit, but alas, even at our enterprises there are a lot of problems, I wrote in the topics earlier .. .Full-value - now you understand that if it’s civil, then we can’t compete with the leaders of the shipbuilding industry anymore, since we have lost our cooperation, and there’s no need to build it there, the deadlines will come up decent! Now, unfortunately, our problems industries a dime a dozen, and this is alarming, because we are an indicator of the development of industry (And greetings to you from the thawing banks of the Neva and the whole Don, God forbid, and I will get to you.
              1. Cossack
                Cossack April 17 2013 22: 37
                +1
                To our great regret, we only build a river-sea fleet. In the marine medium, let alone large-tonnage shipbuilding, we simply cannot physically compete with China and Korea. We do not build ships even for our own companies, and not even for foreign customers. our fleet is catastrophically aging, but tankers, bulk carriers, container ships and other low-tech ships are ordered in China ... Gas carriers, offshore ships and other more "expensive" fleet - Korea, Singapore ... It's a shame, however ... So far, we are left with our patrimony - icebreakers and shipbuilding (we won't get away from this ... yet). RO-RO I don't even remember when the last one was built ... I was on the Vladimir Vaslyaev roller-rover in 87 before and after running. 4 ships in series, gas turbine ship, deadweight 20 thousand tons, speed 27uz, load-carrying capacity of ramps 60 tons (tanks without problems) ... There are 2 spare gas turbine engines on board. On "Captain Smirnov" (lead vessel), the gas turbine engine was once replaced during loading in Ilyichevsk for 30 or 32 hours, I don't remember exactly, by the crew !!! These are the ships! Three ships were immediately stolen by the British for the forces quickly deploying NATO, and the newest "Vaslyaev" - the Americans for themselves (now "Roy Vit").
                And I absolutely agree with you that the state of the shipbuilding industry is the most accurate indicator of the development of industry, because there is a huge cooperation ...
                1. RMRS
                  RMRS April 17 2013 22: 47
                  +1
                  I agree, I have a direct relationship to construction and survey, so I know not by hearsay where, how and what they are lowered ... And that the fleet is aging and about cheap flags, all this is very, very insulting ... Yes, there was a case with these ships ... Oh, there would be orders, they would build (((But alas, it is cheaper to do over the hill (I was on a business trip on the construction of the Veliky Novgorod gas carrier at the STX Offshore & Shipbuilding Co. Ltd), so you look at their shipbuilding and our -Tears well up when you come to the Admiralty, for example. It's hard, we were taught to build, but what are we seeing now? Horror ...
                  1. RMRS
                    RMRS April 17 2013 22: 53
                    0
                    Sormovtsi won the other day for 2 tankers of project 19900 received an order.
                    1. Cossack
                      Cossack April 18 2013 00: 01
                      0
                      19900 is it the MIBovsky project RST22 (built in Sormovo) or RST22M (built in Turkey) from Odessa? Or am I mistaken?
                      All these "carrots" Palmali drive us along the Don like crazy! Up to 6 knots is still tolerable, but at 8 knots the water splashes out from the banks, and the waves blow away everything from boats to fishermen with tackles and vacationers with mattresses ... lol On land it throws fry and crayfish with broken legs and torn claws crying (especially at night). All Palmali steamboats are chaos. And they rumble so loudly that they can be heard 3-5 km along the river. How do people work for them? What kind of deer did you think ...? fool
                      And now they were joined by the "green" "VF Tanker" ...
                      1. RMRS
                        RMRS April 18 2013 01: 02
                        0
                        MIB project RST22) Yeah, someone also told me something like that, but of course I didn’t watch it! Loud is for sure, 2 * 1200 kW (6L 20), it’s like a rattleman) I’ll have to ask tomorrow at work. Yes people they are already accustomed lol , they’re not afraid of anything anymore) The Volga-Caspian Design Bureau counted, but the eco-KM * Icel [1] R2 AUT1- ICS OMBO LI VCS Oil Tanker, a work colleague examined it,
        4. LINX
          LINX April 18 2013 03: 04
          0
          A corvette is being built, according to the information according to the schedule. Gradually stuffed with domestic filling - part of the imported components decreased from 50 to 30%.
      2. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg April 17 2013 12: 52
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        But what about the ships built at the shipyards in Nikolaev?


        So it’s necessary to build it! The Russian Federation sawed off-the only option.
    2. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq April 17 2013 12: 29
      +6
      Quote: Anon
      The Zaporozhye submarine is the only submarine owned by the Ukrainian Navy. She served her life, became out of order and became unable to dive.

      The main thing that would be able to emerge .........
    3. Drejk
      Drejk April 17 2013 12: 37
      +7
      I apologize for the stupid question, but who said that Ukraine made the world's best armored personnel carriers and MBTs ???? If we are talking about MBT "Oplot", then the question is, where is it the best in the world and what is the best in it ??? Of the 2 available prototypes, one does not start, the second is carried on a tractor platform)))) If we are talking about the BTR4, why is it the best ????? the same 80, only the ramp was altered and the visibility was improved, sacrificing protection. And in fact, the same tin can which not only kpvt, but also a cord for 1,5 km will turn into a drushlag. So you shouldn't take Ukrainian tank reviews on YouTube so literally, but read the hardware and the real capabilities of the hardware.
      1. Anon
        Anon April 17 2013 12: 43
        19 th
        about MBT "Oplot"
        Yes. The best in the world. The amusing T-90MS exists in one (!) Instance, there are no orders for this catapult and there will not be, and the Bastion is completely serial and made, there are orders, it passed.

        BTR-4 is a wonderful brainchild of Kharkovites, there is a turret and a ramp. Is there something similar among Russians? Not. Rivet 80-ki, as in Andropov.

        Any questions?
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 17 2013 12: 59
          +6
          Quote: Anon
          Rivet 80-ki, as in Andropov.



          This is more about Ukraine. Russia specializes in 72-cams more
          1. Anon
            Anon April 17 2013 13: 02
            -5
            What? I'm talking about the BTR-80, obviously the same.
        2. tomket
          tomket April 17 2013 13: 03
          14
          the stronghold is the same weighted construction of the times of Andropov, sorry, Brezhnev, naturally you think the best in the world only)))), if this makes it easier for you then let it be so)))))
          1. Anon
            Anon April 17 2013 13: 04
            14 th
            Do you have something better? No. There is not even an analogue. T-90MS is not in the series and has not passed any tests.
            1. Sotnik77s
              Sotnik77s April 17 2013 14: 13
              +2
              How do you know that he passed and what didn’t, did he fake his fat or something?
              1. Anon
                Anon April 17 2013 14: 14
                -6
                This is just a well-known fact. He didn’t go through GI - he rides through exhibitions, Masha.
        3. elmi
          elmi April 17 2013 13: 03
          +2
          You directly shine with patriotism. In your opinion, everything that is produced in Russia is nonsense, but what is better in Ukraine and Belarus.
          1. Anon
            Anon April 17 2013 13: 07
            -6
            It is foolish to deny that the school of armored engineering in Ukraine is an order of magnitude superior to the breeders from Arzamas and Tagil, who are still raping Brezhnev's 72-ki and BTR-80-ki, while proud Ukraine aims for the future.

            "Bulat", for example, is a qualitatively new modernization, and not another curve weighting DZ 72-ki.
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 16
              +5
              The ololo chick of the nest of Tarasenkov stopped showing us to troll. You were mistaken with your address, you should put a nap on your baron in a cozy place, there they will take you and sip you.
              1. avt
                avt April 17 2013 13: 25
                +4
                Quote: evil hamster
                there you will be accepted and sipped.

                They will understand, forgive and remove the pipe from .....
              2. Anon
                Anon April 17 2013 13: 28
                18 th
                Beckoning, climb under the shkonku, to the males.
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 50
                  +6
                  Why are you so nervous laughing popol chtole?
                  1. Anon
                    Anon April 17 2013 14: 06
                    -4
                    That is, they are rude to me, but should I say thanks?
                    1. evil hamster
                      evil hamster April 17 2013 14: 28
                      +4
                      Oh oh oh, let me tell you that you are not a Troll, but you just have such an opinion and so on. amuse me a little more
                      1. Anon
                        Anon April 17 2013 14: 32
                        -5
                        Yes. Such an opinion. I brought a bunch of arguments here. You can crow in response.
                      2. evil hamster
                        evil hamster April 17 2013 14: 53
                        +6
                        Quote: Anon
                        It is foolish to deny that the school of armored engineering in Ukraine is an order of magnitude superior to the breeders from Arzamas and Tagil, who are still raping Brezhnev's 72-ki and BTR-80-ki, while proud Ukraine aims for the future.
                        this is chtol "arguments", this is the cutest thing called a classic g ... on a fan.
          2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
            GELEZNII_KAPUT April 17 2013 13: 30
            -1
            Did they drive her from all over the Nezal? laughing
          3. svp67
            svp67 April 17 2013 15: 58
            -1
            Quote: Anon
            It is foolish to deny that the school of armored engineering in Ukraine is an order of magnitude superior to the breeders from Arzamas and Tagil, who are still raping Brezhnev's 72-ki and BTR-80-ki, while proud Ukraine aims for the future.
            "Bulat", for example, is a qualitatively new modernization, and not another curve weighting DZ 72-ki.


            I am of course glad for your "ardent patriotic optimism." But the tanks produced in Kharkov have a lot of their "jambs". And I'm honestly glad that the T64 "give" one more life, but how much can you modernize the ideas of 50 years ago? At least they make "Armata" in Russia, but what is new in Ukraine? BM "Oplot" is not an argument, these are the same 50-year-old ideas ...
          4. d.gksueyjd
            d.gksueyjd April 17 2013 16: 42
            +2
            Quote: Anon
            while proud Ukraine aims for the future.

            specify in Poland or the Crimean Khanate, otherwise I didn’t understand
      2. dany
        dany April 17 2013 13: 04
        15
        Dear, it seems that you are comparing T 34 and T 90. What is so unique about Ukrainian developments? By and large, all equipment, both ours and yours, is the legacy of Soviet designers. For this there is nothing to boast about. And about "he went through the state", so it is generally laugh- UKRAINIAN STEPS !!! HA, there are still those "effective" managers working.
        1. Anon
          Anon April 17 2013 13: 10
          12 th
          There is just something to boast about. Ukrainians sell Strongholds, make Bulat. We created interesting concepts like 64-ki BTR, "Donets", BTR-3 and so on. What are they doing in Russia? Nichrome. For 20 years, they glued the T-90MS to the poor BMPT and riveted the BTR-80. What can be a conversation about? I am silent about the fact that the T-64 and Kharkov are generally the cradle of the amusing "Russian" school.
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 24
            +5
            Quote: Anon
            Ukrainians sell Bastions
            Oga sell as much as 50 pieces, just until the first batch of Th then until you see.
            Quote: Anon
            make Bulat
            Oda drank 90 T64B in 10 years in a no-equal world Bulat - epic peramoga
            Quote: Anon
            We created interesting concepts like 64-bit BTR
            - oh yes this powerful shushpanzer in the form of 1 layout brings together wild hordes of :)
            Quote: Anon
            rivet BTR-80
            yeah, they’re stupid scammers from Arzamas, they have a plan for this year 750 armored personnel carriers

            And yet yes you are an incredibly fat troll, not even fun
            1. Anon
              Anon April 17 2013 13: 31
              -9
              Oga sell as much as 50 pieces, just until the first batch of Th then until you see
              The Russians have no party at all.
              Oda drank 90 T64B in 10 years in a no-equal world Bulat - epic peramoga
              Tell me, dear, and on which Russian tank is there a crazy niche? Not on any serial. Well, since Ukrainians are not ahead of their ranks, Russians are 20 years behind.
              - oh yes this powerful shushpanzer in the form of 1 layout brings together wild hordes of :)
              You don’t have that either.
              yeah, they’re stupid scammers from Arzamas, they have a plan for this year 750 armored personnel carriers
              Yes. Outdated wretched handicrafts of the Cold War.
              And yet yes you are an incredibly fat troll, not even fun
              I already realized that if there is nothing to argue on the merits - call it a troll.
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 43
                +4
                Quote: Anon
                The Russians have no party at all.

                Og well, except for the 1500 T90s sold, so a trifle laughing but of course the epic alternating olot cannot be compared laughing
                Quote: Anon
                Tell me, dear, and on which Russian tank is there a crazy niche? Not on any serial. Well, since Ukrainians are not ahead of their ranks, Russians are 20 years behind.

                Trolig you read the training manual, it is clearly written there is no flattery for a detailed discussion, you can screw it up for the most part, so you screwed up there is no crazy niche on the damask steel and it never happened, go read the primer
                Quote: Anon
                You don’t have that either.
                Unas such is the whole Cuban blockage, an experimental object it is an experimental one - it is only with the staunch Tarasenkovites that every shushpacher who left the HBTM workshops is the best and the best in the world
                Quote: Anon
                Yes. Outdated wretched handicrafts of the Cold War.

                Yes, yes, once every half a year, passing 40 BTR4 to Iraq is better, of course, they still know that BTR4 is the top of the wheel equipment perfection, where is it for any boxers with pitria
                Quote: Anon
                I already realized that if there is nothing to argue on the merits - call it a troll.
                That is, you are not only fat, you are also dumb?
                1. Anon
                  Anon April 17 2013 14: 03
                  -6
                  Og well, except for the 1500 T90s sold, so little thing but of course not an epic alternating olot
                  We are talking about the T-90MS, it is obvious that there is essentially 72 hanged with tinsel. T-90MS is a comparable level with the Oplot, but, a bid-bid, has not even passed the tests and exists in 1 copy.
                  Trolig you read the training manual, it is clearly written there is no flattery for a detailed discussion, you can screw it up for the most part, so you screwed up there is no crazy niche on the damask steel and it never happened, go read the primer
                  Oh, my fault. Look at the photo. T-64E.

                  Unas such is the whole Cuban blockage, an experimental object it is an experimental one - it is only with the staunch Tarasenkovites that every shushpacher who left the HBTM workshops is the best and the best in the world
                  That's the trick that all these crafts are molded in the USSR yet. The series is nothing new. Generally.

                  Yes, yes, once every half a year, 40 BTR4 is handed over to Iraq - it’s certainly better, they still know that BTR4 is perfect for wheeled vehicles, where are any boxers with pitria
                  You don’t have that either. Only junk with minks on the sides.

                  That is, you are not only fat, you are also dumb?
                  Klava, now you’ll move to the bucket, bitch?
                  1. evil hamster
                    evil hamster April 17 2013 14: 25
                    +2
                    Quote: Anon
                    We are talking about the T-90MS, it is obvious that there is essentially 72 hanged with tinsel. T-90MS is a comparable level with the Oplot, but, a bid-bid, has not even passed the tests and exists in 1 copy.

                    Ololo skok skok skop laughing Ok military show me a picture of 2 or more strongholds M laughing
                    Quote: Anon
                    Oh, my fault. Look at the photo. T-64E.
                    Yyyy tobish has no one ... well, you understand, the modernization model t64B from HBTRZ, existing in 1 instance laughing And yet, in this very "niche" besides the 2 models of the turrets, there is nothing else, inside it, as it was T64B, remained. Seems to me you again beguiled the tancheg laughing All the same, the training manual was right ...
                    Quote: Anon
                    That's the trick that all these crafts are molded in the USSR yet. The series is nothing new. Generally.
                    Of course not, it’s not just about launching any division into a series, but only in Ukraine there is nothing in the series except BTR-4 and other BTR-80 cuts
                    Quote: Anon
                    You don’t have that either. Only junk with minks on the sides.

                    Infantrymen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces can tell motorized riflemen of the Russian Armed Forces receiving BTR-82 brigade kits, how fucking and nonsense ... well, you understand BTR Ukraine delivers a teaspoon to Iraq an hour, let them marvel.
                    Quote: Anon
                    Klava, now you’ll move to the bucket, bitch?
                    Oh yes, you see in life that a certain sent, you only decide on the flag laughing
                    1. viktorR
                      viktorR April 17 2013 17: 06
                      +4
                      Comrade Anon, judging by the manner of conversation and a couple of times accidentally spoken phrases, served in the "zone", so to speak ...
                    2. alexander rus.
                      alexander rus. April 17 2013 20: 14
                      0
                      In Russia, do not renounce the prison and the sum - (voice of the people!).
                2. PiP
                  PiP April 17 2013 14: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: Anon
                  You don’t have that either. Only junk with minks on the sides.

                  I apologize for interrupting such an intelligent conversation. Tell me please, what's the beauty of getting out of the stern? In an open field with a frontal attack it is clear ... But what about in an ambush? If I have a chance to go through the other side (mink) into a ditch and stash there, I will use it, but everyone is bursting "at one stern door" as something not hotts. In a military BeTeR to have bulletproof glasses on the entire "face", this is generally too much, although in my opinion it will do for a policeman.
      3. Sotnik77s
        Sotnik77s April 17 2013 14: 14
        0
        CLASS !!!!!!!!!!!!
    4. elmi
      elmi April 17 2013 13: 06
      +3
      Quote: Anon
      Yes. The best in the world. The amusing T-90MS exists in one (!) Instance, there are no orders for this catapult and there will not be, and the Bastion is completely serial and made, there are orders, it passed.

      BTR-4 is a wonderful brainchild of Kharkovites, there is a turret and a ramp. Is there something similar among Russians? Not. Rivet 80-ki, as in Andropov.

      Any questions?


      You directly shine with patriotism. In your opinion, everything that is produced in Russia is nonsense, but what is better in Ukraine and Belarus.
    5. tarks
      tarks April 17 2013 13: 10
      +9
      Do Russians have something similar?
      So Russian and riveted. In Ukraine.
      "Ukrainians" in Ukraine rivet monuments to the Holodomor, Bandera and Move.
    6. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith April 17 2013 13: 22
      +1
      T-90 about 500 units
      1. Anon
        Anon April 17 2013 14: 04
        -8
        Why are you comparing the 72-ku coated with tinsel and Oplot - essentially a new car?
        1. tomket
          tomket April 17 2013 18: 53
          +1
          where is the stronghold of the new car ??? new NATO shells loaded there and that's it ????
    7. sniper
      sniper April 17 2013 14: 01
      +5
      Quote: Anon
      Any questions?

      God, how can I not like trolls ... Dear, read the article ... where does the tanks ??? Such as you and form a negative attitude towards Ukraine ... "minus"
      1. Anon
        Anon April 17 2013 14: 07
        -8
        And what can you say except minus? I clearly argued why ukrobronetankostroenie surpasses wretched Russian? Waiting for counterarguments. No? Then come in, do not hold back.
        1. sniper
          sniper April 17 2013 14: 13
          +5
          Quote: Anon
          And what can you say except minus?

          Listen, son, I didn’t lie with you in the same ditch to poke me ...
          1. Anon
            Anon April 17 2013 14: 18
            13 th
            Klava, talk to me again.
            1. slvevg
              slvevg April 17 2013 15: 03
              +2
              I am ashamed of you, having your point of view, it can and should be expressed intelligibly, culturally. And then they will understand and listen to you. Show your rudeness is not acceptable to people, many older than you. Want to convince-- give the facts! fool
              1. Skavron
                Skavron April 17 2013 15: 36
                +3
                Hmm ... can ask the moderators to block the "fellow countryman"?
                And then somehow ...
                1. Mhpv
                  Mhpv April 17 2013 15: 51
                  +2
                  Quote: Skavron
                  Hmm ... can ask the moderators to block the "fellow countryman"?
                  And then somehow ...

                  Are you sure that this is your fellow countryman? He has the nickname Anon (anonymous or anoni ... t), but you see he uses anonymizers because his IP is changing, his flags are changing. He went through all the articles with such minuses and comments, it seems he has one goal: incitement to hatred among those present. Moderators, please pay attention to Anon. hi
                  1. Skavron
                    Skavron April 17 2013 22: 23
                    0
                    Quote: mhpv
                    Are you sure that this is your countryman?

                    Duc, therefore, and put quotation marks
        2. Lord of the Sith
          Lord of the Sith April 17 2013 19: 34
          0
          And why are you building yourself into a patriot of Ukraine as a matter of fact my countryman, and you have an avatar with Saab? let's troll each other huh?))
    8. ultra
      ultra April 17 2013 16: 14
      0
      Quote: Anon
      There is a turret and a ramp.

      A "watercolor" is not by chance! bully
    9. itkul
      itkul April 17 2013 17: 38
      0
      Quote: Anon
      Any questions?


      I have a question, but how many nicknames have you changed on this site in the last month
    10. StolzSS
      StolzSS April 17 2013 21: 48
      0
      Have questions. How many tanks are built in the series? Who and how many ordered these tanks since you claim that there is an order? Why is he so wonderful besides advertising booklet statements? Now about your mega pimpled armored personnel carrier. Who needs a ramp for thick fat basses that they can’t get out of the hatch ??? Your turret super-duper jammed 18 times at high temperatures, but you don’t see anything about it and I'm not sure that this defect has been fixed, although a lot of time has passed. Whoever buys these your armored vehicles from you besides a trial batch to Kazakhstan and the Iraqi contract from which the Iraqis spit something I didn’t hear .... You would like questions I voiced I hope the answers will be essentially without emotion.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 09
    +2
    Thanks neighing. Not a good fit, of course, kindles.
    1. Anon
      Anon April 17 2013 13: 12
      13 th
      True eyes hurts?
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster April 17 2013 13: 26
        +5
        Pgavda tgalchenog that you made a mistake with the resource, you to Tagasego
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv April 17 2013 13: 14
    +5
    anon, what will your next flag be? In the previous comments-Belarusian, here Rossiyskiy.Vy first decide on the halo of habitation, otherwise you resemble a primate from the anectode "smart in one direction, beautiful in the other .... etc. "
    1. Anon
      Anon April 17 2013 13: 37
      -6
      What is impressive is the abundance of cons and NOT ONE post in essence. It only puzzles me - there are no arguments. laughing
      1. Nikolko
        Nikolko April 17 2013 14: 22
        0
        Anon
        Tell me, you fool, what is so new and super-duper done in Oplot?
        And why is the T-90 so bad and terrible?
        1. Anon
          Anon April 17 2013 14: 29
          +2
          Starting from the OMS (the same panoramic view) and booking + a recessed niche, a new DZ and AZ and ending with small buns like a helm and automatic gearbox. What of this does the T-90 have? Nichrome. There is only a French thermal imager and a curtain, when compared with the T-72. About comparison with the stronghold, this is generally incorrect.
          1. Nikolko
            Nikolko April 17 2013 14: 43
            +3
            Following your logic, my friend, the T-84u "Oplot" is also covered with tinsel crap. Everything that is in the stronghold, there is absolutely nothing breakthrough in it, this is just a modernization of the T-80. And to call it the best MBT in the world is at least not correct! more with the pace of its release ...
            Take at least the Indians, what do you think if the T-90 were a shitty tank, would they buy it? And again: When the Indians began to buy the T-90 Pakistan immediately got sick of fighting with them. Sit and draw conclusions, Natsyk is unhappy.
          2. slvevg
            slvevg April 17 2013 15: 05
            0
            Already better, put a plus laughing
  • Skavron
    Skavron April 17 2013 11: 36
    +3
    two articles in a row))
    In doublet beats
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 17 2013 12: 12
      +3
      Quote: Skavron
      two articles in a row))
      In doublet beats

      Control shot. wink
      1. Tersky
        Tersky April 17 2013 12: 17
        +7
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Control shot

        Eugene, hi ! That's where the shot is-
        The preparation of the Ukrainian crew of the submarine on the Russian submarine "Alrosa" was directed by Russian sailors from the Black Sea, who ensured the commissioning of the "Zaporozhye".
        . I do not understand Ukraine, the toad is strangling or something ....
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets April 17 2013 12: 41
          +3
          Victor, hi .
          Quote: Tersky
          . I do not understand Ukraine, the toad is strangling or something ....

          As already discussed on the site, in Ukraine there are no and there were no pro-Russian rulers, just all the anti-Russian cards are played with varying degrees of intensity and obviousness.
  • terp 50
    terp 50 April 17 2013 11: 45
    +1
    ... completely fucked up! ..
    1. timurpl
      timurpl April 17 2013 12: 59
      +2
      Ukraine received a significant number of equipped submarine-based locations, including those located in the Balaklava Bay of Sevastopol.
      -Balaclavushka that darling-PRO * RALI oz * satchels !!!
      1. Cossack
        Cossack April 17 2013 13: 41
        +1
        Here is my view through the lens of Balaklava Bay. Previously, submarines and border guards were based here. On the left side of the photo behind the billboard, you can see the exit from the underground loading and loading plant for the submarine with a concrete visor. It was also a refuge for the submarines in case of an apocalypse .. .
      2. Cossack
        Cossack April 17 2013 13: 42
        0
        The pier on the left side of the photo is completely hinged. It was specially built for the high-speed interceptor "Antares". The declared speed is 120 knots. An underwater wing that went beyond the dimensions of the hull went under this berth. During tests in the Feodosia Gulf, when reaching a speed close to maximum, the bow wing broke off Subsequently, the ship's speed was cut to 80-90 knots. But even with such castration, the Antares reacted to border trespassers faster than helicopters. My older brother served in Balaklava on the 205th project and once rode Antares ... Open the doors to the deck even it is no longer possible in the middle stroke ... Air pressure, however ...
        1. Tersky
          Tersky April 17 2013 18: 23
          +3
          Quote: Cossack
          high-speed interceptor "Antares". Declared speed 120 knots

          Performance characteristics
          Length, m 40,3
          Width, m 8,0
          Draft, m 4.55
          Crew, people 25
          Displacement, tons 220
          Maximum speed knots 60, ????? belay !! Maybe you wanted to say km / h? And so the discrepancy turns out: 1852 * 120 = 222,24 km / h, some sort of direct plane wink
          1. Kaa
            Kaa April 17 2013 19: 14
            +1
            Quote: Tersky
            Maximum speed, knots 60,
            Absolutely, 61 knots. But they are already in the past. "In the 70s, a new ship project was developed for the maritime border units of the KGB of the USSR - project 133 code" Antares ", the main distinguishing feature of these ships was hydrofoils, although this idea was not new.
            The construction was entrusted to the Feodosia Production Association "More". In total, 11 ships of this type were built at this shipyard for the MCHPV of the KGB of the USSR, and ONE project 133 ship has already been completed for the sea border guards of Ukraine. This type of ship was not exported. Another feature of these ships was that this ship project was "purely" borderline, the USSR Navy did not accept such a ship project for its armament. Although the fleet considered such ships (hydrofoils) as high-speed small anti-submarine ships, But after the development and construction of two prototypes (the projects were significantly different from the border Antares and in fact they were two completely different IPC projects) they abandoned this idea ... Thus, since the late 70s, only maritime border guards have possessed hydrofoil warships with a high speed.
            At the moment, all ships of this type are excluded from the border forces of Russia and Ukraine. In Russia, the last ones were written off PSKR 109 and 110 (both in 2009), and in Ukraine PSKR-115 in 2010.http: //forum.fregat.kiev.ua/
          2. Cossack
            Cossack April 17 2013 19: 49
            +1
            I called my brother back and found out that I was lying repeat .Yes, in fact, the declared speed was not 120, but 95 knots, but after the accident it was cut to 70 ... The accident occurred in the 81st in Theodosia Bay. Once again, I apologize for the incorrect maximum speed.
            But you must admit that this is also a pretty speed. But how to be on it at that speed is another story ...
  • terp 50
    terp 50 April 17 2013 11: 45
    0
    ... completely fucked up! ..
  • knn54
    knn54 April 17 2013 11: 50
    +8
    The Ukrainian authorities impede the renewal of the armaments of the Black Sea Fleet ... and their own.
  • Phantom Revolution
    Phantom Revolution April 17 2013 11: 52
    +5
    They are afraid of the bureaucrats of the military base, like hell with incense. I would not stand on ceremony, but would raise the question of the affiliation of Sevastopol. If not a myth, then there were articles about the basing of our base.
    1. kostyan77708
      kostyan77708 April 17 2013 12: 29
      +4
      not Sevastopol, but Crimea!
      1. Nevsky
        Nevsky April 17 2013 12: 34
        +3
        kostyan77708

        not Sevastopol, but Crimea!


        Not Crimea, but Southeast Ukraine wink
  • Navuxonastupil
    Navuxonastupil April 17 2013 11: 58
    +4
    It is high time to put "our little brothers" in place. Moreover, with the commissioning of the Nord Stream, the ability to suck something other than free oil from us has expanded to a suitable framework.
  • Opera
    Opera April 17 2013 12: 02
    +1
    Yes, they will update and attach a restless submarine!
    1. dany
      dany April 17 2013 12: 35
      +1
      Somewhere on the forum I read that this is not a submarine but a bathyscaphe which is lowered by a crane under the water for firing belay .
      He wrote people. with Ukrainian flag.
      This is true?
  • Suhov
    Suhov April 17 2013 12: 04
    +1
    Russia with Ukraine:
    Haggling ...
    Haggling ...
    and Bargained:
    As a result, the Ukrainian Navy currently does not have the ability to base its submarine ...

    Bl ... b!
    fool
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 17 2013 12: 34
      +5
      Quote: Sukhov
      As a result, the Ukrainian Navy currently does not have the ability to base its submarine ...

      Nothing! We still have steppes! We will put on the slipway in the middle and there will be a "submarine in the steppes of Ukraine"
  • Shooter308ful
    Shooter308ful April 17 2013 12: 11
    11
    Ukraine, Ukraine is a disobedient maiden, then her paths "have", then the uncle is Swede, then the Turks. Ukraine cannot live alone without Russia if it does not want everyone to "have" it in a row or in turn. Too rich, beautiful and tasty morsel - this Ukrainian for any adversary. And the independence of Ukraine for her and climbs sideways.
    Crimea is a territory of Russian interests was, is and will be, and Ukrainians are our Slav brothers.
    But from time immemorial it has been the custom that Ukraine puts sticks in wheels of Moscow. She asserts herself so-or-so. Its leaders are trying to sell to someone more expensive, either Mazepa or Yushchenko, but Russia does not ask for sale, as always, it gives a hand of friendship and help. But Ukraine is standing on its own, an independent self. And it will stand like that until a roasted rooster in one place pokes. Then she will remember the long-standing friendship and help of Russia.
    In the meantime, Ukraine will stand in a position: ass to us and in a low bow to Geyropa and the States. And the re-equipment of our fleet on the Black Sea, and other things that benefit Russia and will not be surrendered to the Ukrainian leadership in the form of all kinds of deviants, it will slow down, block and sabotage, raising its significance.
    Eh, Ukraine, you’re a salesman.
  • sergius60
    sergius60 April 17 2013 12: 16
    +5
    It is necessary to solve the issue in a complex, in a complex. Sevastopol + Crimea + South-East (Novorossiya + Slobozhanshchina). I wish to be freed from the "Galitsai" occupation.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron April 17 2013 12: 25
      -3
      Quote: sergius60
      freed from the "Galitsai" occupation.

      I’m not observing something here in the southeast of the occupation)
      1. Nevsky
        Nevsky April 17 2013 12: 39
        +1
        I’m not observing something here in the southeast of the occupation)


        In Berdyansk, the nationalists ruined the holiday: the opening of the monument to Count Vorontsov:

        1. Skavron
          Skavron April 17 2013 14: 22
          0
          so fill their face, expose from the city and do not whine. We did just that. And no problem.
          And, this is NOT OCCUPATION!
          Use words correctly, otherwise all meaning is lost.
          1. Skavron
            Skavron April 17 2013 22: 28
            0
            Nevsky watched the video now with sound. Do you really think that ten Natsiks who were invaders at the holiday? These are just a few sick people.
  • kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 April 17 2013 12: 31
    +8
    to koment Shooter308ful RU it is ho.hl.l.m, but not to Ukrainians !!!
    1. Technocrat
      Technocrat April 17 2013 13: 09
      -4
      Well, the flag of the present erefia is also, according to one version, an inverted Dutch ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 17 2013 16: 03
        +1
        Quote: Technocrat
        Well, the flag of the present erefia is also, according to one version, an inverted Dutch ...


        But if so, this is OUR FLAG and it must be respected. How many countries HIS, and not Dutch, have taken as a basis, as a sign of faith and gratitude to Russia
        1. Technocrat
          Technocrat April 17 2013 17: 47
          -2
          I was born in the USSR. Here is my MOTHERLAND, not the squalid rferia.
      2. sniper
        sniper April 17 2013 17: 48
        +1
        Quote: Technocrat
        erefia

        The site is strictly prohibited:

        a) a mat in any form (open and veiled), swear words; insulting an opponent;
        b) inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, india, Jew, USA, Bulbash, Talaponet, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, Raska (generally a derogatory mention of Russia and Russianness) and other similar turns of unnatural speech;


        The flag would not disgrace ...
        1. Technocrat
          Technocrat April 18 2013 08: 19
          -2
          In the meantime, Ukraine will stand in a pose: ass to us and in a low bow to Geyropa and the States
          It is high time to put "our little brothers" in place. Moreover, with the commissioning of the Nord Stream, the ability to suck something other than free oil from us has expanded to a suitable framework.
          And these flags do not disgrace ????
  • ioann1
    ioann1 April 17 2013 12: 33
    +3
    Ukrainian ambitions just sweep over the edge. I’m gonna bite it! And so in everything. Simply put, scammers are at the state level.
  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 April 17 2013 12: 39
    +4
    Shout, agree !!! In this matter, a purely political subtext. As they say, who owns the Crimea that owns the entire Black Sea. So with the rearmament of the fleet, I think they will all decide.

    It used to be good, not what was not shared, I hope that everything will be improved in the future.
  • White
    White April 17 2013 12: 51
    +1
    Among the commentators there are those who are thoroughly familiar with the agreement on the conditions for the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol, for example, I did not read it, so I and most likely everyone else has no idea who is legally right in this situation. And on Ukrainian TV they serve a little differently.
  • amber-50
    amber-50 April 17 2013 13: 00
    +1
    I don’t even understand why, when a native of Ukraine lives in Russia, he usually has completely different outlooks on life. But as soon as he finds himself in his historical homeland, you again hear the damned and so on. And tp. And in fact, in Russia, probably every third surname is Ukrainian. Here, after all, is a pox. Where do more Ukrainians live in our country or in Ukraine?
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd April 17 2013 17: 20
      +1
      Of course, in the Russian Federation, at least they work without disdaining the oldest profession. Pride is pride, but I want to eat something.
  • Technocrat
    Technocrat April 17 2013 13: 06
    0
    Reading both the articles on this site and the comments to them, you understand how few adequate and intelligent people are left in this world. After all, it is clear to a fool that this article serves as a "seed" for some individuals to start again measuring their national "dignity"
    1. alexander rus.
      alexander rus. April 17 2013 15: 25
      -3
      You think correctly !!!
  • Igor_kh
    Igor_kh April 17 2013 13: 23
    0
    Continues (or by inertia?) The soft extrusion of the Black Sea Fleet from the Crimea.
  • GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT April 17 2013 13: 26
    +1
    At present, the Ukrainian Navy does not have the ability to base its submarine

    the only one! I laugh nimagu !!! laughing laughing laughing
    1. Pelican
      Pelican April 17 2013 17: 50
      0
      No need to laugh! They have one boat, we have two! the Turks have at least eight.
      1. Waterfall
        Waterfall April 17 2013 17: 51
        -2
        B-380 is rather a corpse. So the Black Sea Fleet has one boat.
      2. Windbreak
        Windbreak April 17 2013 23: 00
        0
        The Turkish Navy has 14 Type 209 submarines
  • Opera
    Opera April 17 2013 14: 13
    0
    Quote: Technocrat
    Reading both the articles on this site and the comments to them, you understand how few adequate and intelligent people are left in this world. After all, it is clear to a fool that this article serves as a "seed" for some individuals to start again measuring their national "dignity"

    In this case, this is actually not an article but a message from ITAR-TASS. Look, read and listen to the reports of many Ukrainian media outlets, this will no longer seem like a seed ... I will not talk about real hysteria in the west of Ukraine and not only, on this issue, read at least the statements of the head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars that the Russian Black Sea Fleet is undermining security and national sovereignty of Ukraine. This is where and for whom the national "dignity" has reached truly incredible proportions !!!
    1. alexander rus.
      alexander rus. April 17 2013 15: 34
      -1
      The Tatars are not Ukrainians, but all the media in all countries belong to the fifth column.
    2. Technocrat
      Technocrat April 17 2013 17: 52
      -2
      Dear about the situation in Ukraine, I know firsthand, I assure here nationalism is a cut above
  • zao74
    zao74 April 17 2013 15: 02
    +1
    No, well, again, the power structures of Ukraine get out. Guys, good, let's join together and not fool our peoples.
  • Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 April 17 2013 16: 02
    0
    Here, many switched to BTR And other equipment, but the article is about another. If the agreement specifically describes that the Black Sea Fleet without the consent-permission of the Ukrainian side cannot increase its strength, this is one question, you need to agree, and if there is not a word about it in the agreement, then what’s the conversation? And if there is no word about the latter, then it is asked what to excite. The Black Sea Fleet is rearming and this is normal. And ABOUT PI ---- THAT RUSSIANS WANT TO SEE EVERYTHING AND TAKE EVERYTHING I ALREADY WRITTEN YESTERDAY. so write constructively and without, they offended me. hi

    And let's not insult each other.
  • Lexagun
    Lexagun April 17 2013 17: 25
    +1
    A workaround for the replenishment and rearmament of the Black Sea Fleet has already been found wink .
    The Ukrainians themselves will be (partially) involved in this. Having sufficiently large production capacities for the manufacture of ships (that is, sites, hulls, docks, equipment - albeit dilapidated) have no chance of loading all this to any noticeable degree. Accordingly, the equipment is idle, personnel are scattering, no profit has been received, funds to maintain the technical level are not enough, which in turn only accelerates degradation. But all this economy has owners, there are workers, from this a huge number of other enterprises and people are fed (fed) through contracts.
    Therefore, an offer was made to the Ukrainian side, which is very difficult to refuse wink negotiations have begun on placing orders (up to 4) for the production of corvettes and frigates. Now Ukrainian manufacturers from their worst competitors are lobbying for the project, the population is starting to look at the gates of the shops with hope (what if it starts working?) And the Ukrainian government is getting an order of magnitude more difficult to negotiate. Yes, of course, Ukrainian-built vessels only for the Black Sea flotilla, it is so natural. It is very difficult to refuse pi for political (internal) motives and for economic and social reasons. At the same time, it is obvious that if an order is accepted and re-equipment of the Russian flotilla is allowed in this case, then how to refuse entry and updating of vessels already of Russian construction? Moreover, the order of even several vessels for Ukraine is a tidbit in itself. But even theoretically it is impossible to order the entire fleet, which means that the rest of the vessels will be Russian (as well as weapons systems in Ukrainian). At the same time, remembering the deplorable state of the Black Sea Ukrainian shipyards, to pick on quality and accept with a delay or not at all (not counting on these units as real combat in advance), as well as requesting a share in these enterprises under the pretext of technological upgrade, introducing their specialists (very wide profile) etc. etc. (It may or may not reach the real payment).
    1. Kaa
      Kaa April 17 2013 18: 41
      0
      Quote: Lexagun
      Now Ukrainian manufacturers from the worst competitors become lobbyists of the project
      Factories are able to work, another thing - does Russia want this? On April 12, Feodosia Shipbuilding Company More delivered the first Project 958 landing craft to the Chinese Navy. On the Ukrainian side, the acceptance certificate was signed by Ukrspetsexport General Director Dmitry Peregudov, the press service of Ukrspetsexport reports.
      When accepting the ship, the Chinese side expressed a high assessment of the quality of the work performed by Ukrainian enterprises. The ship was built by FSK "More", which is part of the SC "Ukroboronprom", for the needs of the Chinese Navy. Now the company is working on the construction of the second ship of project 958 for a Chinese customer.
      According to the contract signed earlier, FSK "More" will build two Project 958 amphibious assault ships for the Chinese Navy. Two more such ships will be built with the participation of Ukrainian specialists using domestic components in China.The largest amphibious amphibious assault ship of the project 958 is designed to receive military equipment and personnel of amphibious assault forces from an equipped or unequipped shore, transport them by sea, land on an unequipped coast, and fire support the airborne troops. It can also transport mines and set minefields http://www.rbc.ua/rus/newsline/show/ukraina-12-aprelya-peredala-vms-kitaya-pervy

      y-desantnyy-korabl-17042013133300
      1. Lexagun
        Lexagun April 17 2013 19: 17
        0
        So the more the option with "involvement" has the right to life, winked
      2. LINX
        LINX April 18 2013 14: 02
        -1
        .... Now the company is working on the construction of the second ship of project 958 for the Chinese customer ....

        958


        For problematic components, they finally resolved the issue with Russian contractors (screws and a navigation system), and designed the rubber skirt and made it in Nikolaev.

        And they could build together both for the Russian Federation and for Ukr, and not dog for Chinese contracts (((
  • darksoul
    darksoul April 17 2013 17: 39
    0
    Anon made a greater impression: as a true patriot, he defended Ukrainian supertechnology and aligned himself with our ha ... m. Push this on Western sites ... we don’t need such an advertisement
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus April 17 2013 23: 27
    0
    It seems to me that it's time to stop treating Ukraine as a fraternal country. Pure business. and n7 more. And to develop a policy for the collapse of the country with the accession of New Russia to the Russian Federation. It is clear that zapadentsy with the Poles will spoil, but this is our strategic interests. And then we will wait for the fact that Crimea will be presented to the Turks because of anger.
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS April 23 2013 01: 06
    +1
    Quote: Shooter308ful
    Eh, Ukraine, you’re a salesman.


    He doesn’t admit his mistakes, he’s going to insult Russia all. And there is - It doesn’t matter with anyone, the main thing is against Russia