Ministry of Defense: Ukraine prevents the renewal of the Black Sea Fleet

The leadership of Ukraine delays the preparation of agreements on updating the Black Sea fleet, a senior official from the Russian Ministry of Defense said on Tuesday.

According to him, the Ukrainian authorities, "as was the case with the former President Viktor Yushchenko, insist that the renewal of the forces of the Black Sea Fleet can be carried out only with the permission and under the control of the Ukrainian authorities."

It clarifies the "Interfax", the representative of the Ministry of Defense put the responsibility for delaying negotiations on agreements necessary for the Black Sea Fleet, the Ukrainian side, mentioning the reluctance of Kiev to decide on the abolition of customs duties when importing equipment and goods for the fleet.

Recall, on Friday, the head of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, Pavel Lebedev, said that Kiev had offered Moscow a number of joint projects in the field of military-technical cooperation, but had not received an answer on them for two months already. He noted that the issue of the duration of the Black Sea Fleet's stay in Sevastopol was not raised in these proposals.

He also referred to the agreement between Russia and Ukraine on the An-70 aircraft, which, according to him, “is not being fulfilled on the Russian side”. He added that "time will judge us."

On the eve of the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Anatoly Antonov said that the department was surprised by the statement of the head of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine about the prospects for the joint implementation of the project to create a military transport aircraft An-70.

“I recall that the Ministry of Defense of Russia fully fulfilled its financial obligations. At the same time, there are delays in financing from Ukraine. The project is funded by Kiev only 45%, "- said Antonov.
In November, 2012, the Russian Foreign Ministry said that the customs of Ukraine prevents the supply of fuel to the Black Sea Fleet.
October 19, following talks with the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Konstantin Gryshchenko, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that "there are advances on the Black Sea Fleet, but I would like to speed up the negotiation process."

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Konstantin Grishchenko reported that Kiev and Moscow will soon come to a mutually acceptable decision on the delimitation of the maritime border and the Kerch Strait.

October 4 Ukrainian Ambassador to Russia Vladimir Yelchenko said that Kiev intends to force the Russian Black Sea Fleet to pay taxes.

In May, the Sevastopol Regional Administrative Court ruled to recover from the Russian Ministry of Defense tax debt in the amount of 1,3 million hryvnia (more than 5 million rubles).

In April, Moscow offered Ukraine to exempt goods that come to the Crimea in the interests of the Russian Black Sea Fleet division from taxation.

In turn, the ambassador-at-large of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Alexander Bavykin, stated that all cargo “that goes for the Black Sea Fleet today falls in Ukraine under the 20-interest tax. But we have studied Russian legislation and believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”

Comments

[Vladimirets]

Yeah, as in a proverb: it’s not so insulting that the cow died, it’s insulting that the neighbor is alive.

[Vasily T.]

Right, right to the bull's eye!

[vadimus]

So it's time to update the Ministry of Defense ...

[alexng]

Quote: vadimus

Army General
vadimus FR Today, 08:39 ↑ New

So it's time to update the Ministry of Defense ...

In France?

[Zax]

In France, with the Ministry of Defense, everything is fine. It was you who was shoved down by a normal reformer minister and put in his place a clown who now, in favor of the same clown scoops, returns the fuck the unnecessary divisions and marches of the cadets in the parade.

[strannik595]

we can give it to you to increase defense capability, do not mind .... and as for the scoops, if not for the scoops, the beauties of France still served the German occupation forces, and the French heroes bent their backs on Hans, so screw the tongue, wise guy

[Zax]

Great story is simple.

[DeerIvanovich]

and why were they worried about our "soviet" clowns? your native France is only on hand, for 1812 there will be an opportunity to take revenge

[Zax]

I'm not worried. I laugh at how you drive the country back into the red abyss.

[DeerIvanovich]

Laughter prolongs life, but I think it will not help you, because we are red villains, sooner or later, but our tentacles of the Evil Empire will get you the burzhins of the Empire of good, wherever you are ...

[Net]

A better division of normal men than a team of French gay males. De Gaulle would have turned over in his grave when he saw what France was turned into.

[Zax]

If De Gaulle turned upside down, he would have turned over from France’s membership in NATO, which the French themselves are not very happy about. But France is once again going to leave NATO.

[redmont]

You said that everything is fine with the Minister ... So why, once again, he cannot listen to the majority of France and does not leave their NATO?

[svp67]

Quote: Vladimirets

Yeah, as in a proverb: it’s not so insulting that the cow died, it’s insulting that the neighbor is alive.

Especially if someone else's "good uncle" pays extra for this "offense", and even a specific performer ...

[VadimSt]

Smells like gas! And the "statesmen of Ukraine" say that Tymoshenko is not sitting in vain ..., others think similarly, but with a hint - while she is sitting, dividends for the gas agreement are dripping to her, and "statesmen" so want to take them away and redirect them into another pocket.

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: VadimSt

It smells of gas!

What does the gas have to do with it? Did Ukraine create problems for the Black Sea Fleet before signing the latest gas agreements, and the penultimate ones?

[Garrin]

Quote: VadimSt

It smells of gas!

Right! The fact that from the intestine is expelled.

[Good man]

Quote: VadimSt

also "statesmen of Ukraine" say that Tymoshenko is not sitting in vain ..., others think similarly, but with a hint - while she is sitting, dividends for the gas agreement are dripping for her,

Yeah, they also say that Putin eats children and transfers all his salary to Tymoshenko.

[DeerIvanovich]

correctly noticed, the denyuzhka for gas (rollback) continues to drip into Tymoshenko’s accounts inaccessible to the Ukrainian authorities ... It infuriates them, so they are trying by all means to push a new gas contract so that the denyuzhka for gas will already drop into their accounts, and not the damned Tymoshenko , which, moreover, didn’t beat the rollback itself ...

[Good man]

Quote: DeerIvanovich

correctly noticed, denyuzhka for gas (rollback) continues to drip into Tymoshenko’s accounts inaccessible to the Ukrainian authorities.

Please share the source of information.

[Ezhaak]

Somewhere else, spring has not arrived. So they say they get warm.

[DeerIvanovich]

what else, when the denyuzhka is dripping with information they don’t share, otherwise you’ll suddenly be quicker than me to save these denyuzhki ... uh ... it’s not good

[domokl]

Ukraine, in its repertoire, I don’t even want to comment ... As always, it’s from a bad mind to a healthy one .. We are obliged again, we must, rob and other ... Boredom .. And let Ukraine and Russia tell me fraternal countries again, we need to agree. .Yes, you need to agree, but it's time to stop mumble ... It's time to strangle ...

[Captain Vrungel]

Let me object to you. You don’t think (I do not support Yanukovych and his actions at all) that Mr. Putin is behaving very vile. Especially when his project "Yanukovych" does not work (you may remember how in the first presidential elections, before the official announcement of the failure of Yanukovych, he managed to congratulate him three times on his victory.)
They have their own undercover games. Let's be smarter. We will not blame each other for what we are not allowed at all, let alone decide, even in elections.

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: Captain Vrungel

Allow you to object. Doesn’t it seem to you (I completely do not support Yanukovych and his actions) that Mr. Putin is very mean-spirited

Hello Odessa! Pleasantly surprised by your comment.

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Captain Vrungel

Mr. Putin behaves very vile. Especially when his Yanukovych project doesn't work

Oh how! What led to such deep analytics and rhetoric?
Is it okay that Putin sometimes sends this "project" back without accepting it when he comes to Moscow? You better figure out how many rounds you have with your elections: two, three, five, eight - and clearly report after which one to congratulate, otherwise people get confused. With an amendment to new trends, like, I will be elected, but I will not work and I will not let others.

And further. If the "Yanukovych project" was a failure, then one should think that the "Yushchenko project" was a success. Well, how did it help Ukraine? I'm not saying what this "success" has done for Russian-Ukrainian relations.

[kot9ra]

Why is Ukraine rhinestone, you need to write "torture of Ukraine", who consider themselves rulers, but in our everyday life they are just "clowns". The people are silent, and only a few are plundered. And what about choking it, yes ... for vila brothers ...

[ars_pro]

do they have nothing to do, the Ukrainian authorities have nothing to do ??? people are starving and they think for kickbacks !!!

[awg75]

friendship is friendship, and pies should be apart ... you must not allow a foreign state to control our army (their own then they already completely collapsed)

[Akhtuba73]

Quote: awg75

friendship is friendship, and the pies should be apart ...

Yeah ... so they laid out pies and friendship in different angles. If such a story had happened between Russia and Portugal or the Philippines, then everything is clear as God's day - business and nothing personal. But here! Brotherly people, Slavs, ancestors of Russian cities ... (srach of the last twenty years against the backdrop of a thousand-year history is just a grain of sand on the beach)

[kvodrato]

While in the government of Ukraine there are many Western agents who look at Amer, they will interfere with the constant rapprochement of Russia and Ukraine with essentially one single people.

[Akim]

the cargo “that goes today for the Black Sea Fleet falls in Ukraine under a 20 percent tax. But we studied Russian legislation and we believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”

Explain. What does the Russian legislation have to do with the territory of Ukraine?

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Akim

Explain. What does the Russian legislation have to do with the territory of Ukraine?

Indeed, nothing to do with it. But Ukraine has nothing to do with the cargo for the Black Sea Fleet.

[Akim]

The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

[domovoi]

This is the territory of Ukraine leased from Russia by the Ukrainian government. What free

[Akim]

Quote: domovoi

This is the territory of Ukraine leased from Russia by the Ukrainian government. What free

Put your historical justice deep into W ... I do not interfere with politics here. One pure economy and jurisprudence Now this is the legal territory of another state and the Black Sea Fleet is obliged to obey its laws. He is the same legal entity as TNK.

[Egoza]

Quote: Akim

Now this is the legal territory of another state

So the fact of the matter is that ILLEGAL! There is not a single document according to which Sevastopol was included in the Crimean region, which Khrushchev gave to Ukraine. It was a city of all-Union significance. And if the Ukrainian authorities greatly bother with their stupidity, then this issue is very easy to challenge in the European Court. And who will benefit from this?

[Akim]

Quote: Egoza

There is not a single document by which Sevastopol was included in the Crimean region

No - let the Russian government sue, not blackmail it. This is a fairy tale about a white bull.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Akim

One clean economy and jurisprudence

It is precisely at your request that Russian Railways launched trains running towards Chechnya, Dagestan and the Caucasus, bypassing Kharkov and Lozova. And Ukraine lost its deng. Not a few. Soon, Ukraine will be freed from the money that is paid for basing the Black Sea Fleet. With gas transit, I hope there is no need to tell what exactly Ukraine has lost. Pride must be shown. But within reasonable limits. And remember, the greed of the fraer is ruining.

[Kars]

Quote: Hedgehog

towards Chechnya, Dagestan and Transcaucasia

Yes, for God's sake, I would even add that such routes pass by Ukraine.

Quote: Hedgehog

soon Ukraine will be freed from the money that is paid for basing the Black Sea Fleet

It is strange why the Russian Federation signed an extension agreement for 25 years.

Quote: Hedgehog

With gas transit, I hope there is no need to tell what exactly Ukraine lost

What? But Gasprom lacks a lot - Ukraine had the lowest transit tariffs (Belarus no longer has a GTS), but how much does it cost to pay for transit bypass routes (this even does not include the money that was buried during construction)

And by the way, it is very likely that the payment for the lease of Sevostopol will increase soon, as the discount on the results of the signing of the Kharkov agreements becomes illiquid in view of the reduction in gas purchases from Gasprom.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Kars

I would even add that such routes pass by Ukraine.

Well, as always, after what happened. It is called after a fight to wave fists. But the factories like the car-building plant in Panyutino are left without orders.

Quote: Kars

why did the Russian Federation sign an extension agreement for 25 years

Probably, so that you roll your lips more. Usually we are required to learn from ANOTHER mistakes. But this is the lot of the smart. Does the example with Gabala hint to you about anything? Remember. Russia can do without you. But I have to think about my relatives living there. Half of the family rushes to Russia, for pensions in poverty, and the second breaks the navel, eating up "huge" Ukrainian pensions.

[Kars]

Quote: Hedgehog

Probably to make you roll your lips more

So what in 17 withdraw?

Quote: Hedgehog

Am the example of Gabala hinting at nothing? Remember. Russia can do without you

It was written as if you were being asked for the remainder, and it is impossible to conduct commercial activities with the territories rented by the Russian Federation under the Black Sea Fleet base, while it is still unknown what will be more profitable.

Quote: Hedgehog

But I have to think about my relatives living there

So you are our benefactor, we will know.

[Akim]

Quote: Hedgehog

And remember, the greed of the fraer is ruining.

I think the same thing can be said about Gazprom.

[xan]

Quote: Akim

Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

Chtoli read the lease agreement?
Why was there no question before, but now it suddenly arises?

[Akim]

Yes, and before it was, it just was not made public. When such topics pop up in the media, this is the last reason to influence society, because the legal basis has ended. Like Miller’s statements or a long-standing conflict with the scythe / Tuzla island.

[xan]

Quote: Akim

Yes, and before it was, it just was not made public. When such topics pop up in the media, this is the last reason to influence society, because the legal basis has ended.

I correctly understood, before ours paid and did not show off, and now suddenly decided not to pay?

[Akim]

Quote: xan

I correctly understood, before ours paid and did not show off, and now suddenly decided not to pay?

Yes it was. But the Ukrainian government turned a blind eye to many things. For a long time Russia did not pay for the lease of bases or for the thread, but the issues were resolved "secretly". Now everything has been transferred to economic slats, so many of the facts have surfaced,

[Zax]

Quote: Akim

but the issues were resolved "secretly".

... spare parts for MiGs.

[Akim]

Quote: Zax

... spare parts for MiGs.

For Dryers. But they were not given for a long time. This year barter was replaced with money, because the Ukrainian military-industrial complex itself began to produce analogues.

[Zax]

Quote: Akim

For Dryers

What's the difference.

[Akim]

Quote: Zax

What's the difference.

In the price. And "MiGremontservice" has been producing components for a long time.

[Ezhaak]

So what now? THREAD at you. How much profit does it bring to Ukraine? But it is also required to service it. Change worn knots. That thread will definitely rust. Oh, how fair is the joke about a comrade who does not eat, but bites.

[Kars]

Quote: Hedgehog

How much profit does it bring to Ukraine?

We won’t find a new tenant, we’ll dismantle it, sell it to China, some to scrap, or to build other objects. We are rehabilitating the land. In Crimea, in the resort area, it will not remain long.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Kars

we will sell part to China, part to scrap

No doubt. You are capable of it. A history of evidence has facts.
And there poppy can grow well!

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Kars

Kars

And in the appendage. I understand everything and I understand everything. The trifle is incomprehensible. If Ukraine is so cool and strong and rich, explain to me why it’s not me who works somewhere in Kharkov or Lviv, and my nephew, a Ukrainian citizen, works without a hitch in Podolsk. How Ukraine sank to the like, without providing its citizens with jobs with a decent salary. And mind you. Russians have no complaints against such workers !!
Ukraine is not going to recall its citizens from Russia? And it turns out that Ukrainians pratsuyut on the Moscow coast. Some disgrace.

[Kars]

Quote: Hedgehog

If Ukraine is so cool and strong and rich

Maybe I would explain if you quote where I stated this.

Quote: Hedgehog

I don’t work anywhere in Kharkov or Lviv

Maybe your specialty is not in demand with us?

Quote: Hedgehog

How Ukraine sank to the like, not providing its citizens with jobs with decent salaries

And why did they write that there are no unemployed in the Russian Federation and the citizens of the Russian Federation do not work abroad.

Quote: Hedgehog

Ukraine is not going to recall its citizens from Russia?

But are they serfs? We seem to have freedom, wherever you want or where to take

Quote: Hedgehog

No doubt. You are capable of it.

And what is wrong with this for Ukraine? There are no prospects for carrier aircraft in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, so the object is useless for us.

Quote: Hedgehog

And there poppy can grow well!

you know better.

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Kars

Maybe I would explain if you quote where I stated this.

Intonation, my friend, intonation. And can I just ignore you so that I won’t be too considered a troll? Like your countrywoman Akim which.

[Kars]

Quote: Hedgehog

Intonation, my friend, intonation.

Intonation? What are you? Really?

Quote: Hedgehog

Or can I just ignore you

What else do you have?

[Egoza]

Quote: Akim

this is the last reason to influence society,

Well yes! Explain to society why they continue to please the nationalists, but at the same time I really want to stay clean!

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

therefore, all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

Exactly, no need to speculate. PRODUCTS (i.e. cargo intended for SALE on the territory of the state) fall under taxation. But ... again I REALLY want money, that's why they are looking for where the law can be "moved" ...

[Akim]

Ay-yai-yay is not good not to know. Any goods, even transit, are taxed. And why do you think the port areas are so rich? Not taxed, only humanitarian goods and those that have a preferential subvention. As I understand it, Russia wants to achieve it for parts of the Black Sea Fleet, which are located on the territory of Ukraine. That is the whole conflict in this matter.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

Any goods, even transit, are taxed.

With a strong desire, you can tax anything, even this message. And the law is appropriate to cook up. The head of the Sevastopol customs has already tried to tax a barge that collects (let's say, waste from the vital functions of human organisms) from ships that are on the roadstead during customs procedures and cargo clearance. And then he crosses the loaded customs border and does not pay at the same time ... He ridiculed the whole city and flew off the post

[avt]

Quote: Akim

The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

By the way, this is a good argument for our Kazakh partners about investing and developing Baikonur. All the groans about the unfriendly attitude and throwing money into the East, artistic whistle in general, but here's a specific everyday situation. So what ? Here with Vostochny everything is clear, well, God forbid what a mess, please allies - the army and the navy. Well, in such a "rental" situation, what do you want to do? To level gas prices again?

[Akim]

Gas prices are already flattened, and as a result, Ukraine will receive a third of the exported gas this year not from Russia. And the way for Turkmen gas would have been opened, maybe more. But this is already politics. The trouble with many VO respondents is that they perceive it all as a personal insult and translate the economy into politics. But the fact is the fact. There are two sovereign states that are not members of an economic or military alliance and are required to comply with intergovernmental agreements.

[avt]

Quote: Akim

There are two sovereign states that are not members of an economic or military alliance and are required to comply with intergovernmental agreements.

Well do , and do not include the fool about unfair prices for the fraternal people. Well twisted through Hungary - your thieves' happiness, download more and faster and pay the contract for the shortfall. And this.

Quote: Akim

The trouble with many VO respondents is that they perceive it all as a personal insult and translate the economy into politics.

You write for suckers, well, or repeat it to yourself in front of the mirror, for the time being any one is perceived as a terrible insult to an independent state. Well, even a slight bewilderment from the opposite side [I don’t even speak about radical statements} - of course, imperial ambitions and a nagging young democratic democracy with a proposal do not take to heart. Each sovereign state has its own interests. And with what fright do we put your interests above our own?

[Akim]

Quote: avt

avt

I’m no longer interested in talking with you. Russia has legal claims filed with arbitration. And to go down to your level and conduct a discussion in the form of insults is not for me.

[Egoza]

Quote: Akim

therefore, all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

Was this indicated in the contract? Not? So nothing is done retroactively! Everything that was contracted by Russia was being carried out. But from Ukraine - no! Especially financing.
However, if we take into account that the Svolotovites and the "oppa" are demanding that the treaty be reviewed and that Russia should be denied the base in Sevastopol in general, there is nothing surprising.

[Akim]

Elena, you saw this contract. I think no. In hindsight, they wanted to return the lighthouses and Yusch didn’t succeed. Now a mirror situation.

[xan]

Quote: Akim

Elena, you saw this contract. I think no.

I think you haven’t seen it either, however you declare

Quote: Akim

Yes it was. But the Ukrainian government turned a blind eye to many things. For a long time Russia did not pay for the lease of bases or for the thread, but the issues were resolved "secretly". Now everything has been transferred to economic slats, so many of the facts have surfaced,

[Akim]

We were drinking together that you switched to "You"? Yes, I have not seen the entire text of the agreement. But if claims are made not through the legal side, but through public opinion, then probably the dog rummaged in the wrong place. Go to court or publish the contract in the press, rather than make a loud statement.

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Akim

all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this

How much does the US pay Japan taxes on "shipments" to Okinawa? Or Kyrgyzstan for transit, where also only "for rent"?

[Akim]

It all depends on the contract. Cuba, the United States pays for Guantanamo 5 silver dollars (that's about 100 bucks) and neigh over them. I don’t know for Japan, but all cargo in Germany must undergo control procedures and a tax on them is also obtained. In the US Army, this mechanism is clear.

[Nicholas C.]

It should be understood that not all of your statements are true, for example:

Quote: Akim

The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

because:

Quote: Akim

It all depends on the contract

Those. You are familiar with the lease of the Black Sea Fleet base. Please give a link. And, if possible, a German example.

[Akim]

Quote: Nikolai S.

And, if possible, a German example.

This was stated in one of the television programs, it takes a very long time to search.

[Nikolko]

Damn, I’m just fucking from Ukraine. The Black Sea Fleet is the guarantor of the security of Ukraine, and in case of war our Black Sea Fleet will be blown away, not only does it protect them, WE PAY FOR THEM ALREADY, and they bl * are not happy yet !!!!!

[domovoi]

What do you want? It is the United States that pays the money (they print it), and you can wipe your feet about Russia too ... But Russia itself is to blame, which is talking about all sorts of nonsense. Turkmenistan, Ukraine ... Sanctions, pressure - the result! All the same, the United States will not replace a full-fledged economy that without Russia will bend ...

[porevith]

The guarantor of security from whom ????? And the fleet of Turkey itself is already bigger and more powerful than the Black Sea Fleet

[Nikolko]

Well, yes. The Turks have the entire fleet as our Black Sea Fleet, only they have more submarines.

[Waterfall]

Quote: Nikolko

only they have more submarines

14 versus 1 PL is not just more. This is a rout, given the wretchedness of 877.

Quote: Nikolko

The Turks have the whole fleet as our Black Sea Fleet

The Black Sea Fleet would have 16 frigates ... In reality, there are 2 ancient BODs and 2 ancient TFRs.

[Misantrop]

Quote: porevith

And the fleet of Turkey itself is already bigger and more powerful than the Black Sea Fleet

Why, they’re upgrading their fleet. An interesting position: do not let the Black Sea Fleet be modernized and immediately declare that the Black Sea Fleet is weak and is not able to protect anyone

[Soldier]

To the inhabitants of Ukraine. Damn, men, we also don’t like our ghouls from the government, there are enough reptiles everywhere, but it’s such a sensation that you still have the 90s. Can you crush your oligarchs-natsurodki? All your life lived together, and now every n endo-Nazi trash rubbing us and you, that we are different.

[domovoi]

I will say an opinion from the Ukrainian layman. Some say that power is one thing, but the people want with Russia. He doesn’t want them! They like stupid donkeys vote every election, hope, and then disappointedly vote for their opponents. And now here again - all for the opposition. Europe, sour coast, s / n 10000 euros ... yeah. Dumb.

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: Armeec

and now every n endo-Nazi trash rubs us and you, that we are different.

Brother, the Russian channels are rubbed by the Russians that the Ukrainians are rubbed by. Question: Russian channels - Russian? Do they lead Russian politics? You understand, any news can be submitted in different ways. Keep silent about the prehistory, precedents, something to stick out, and keep silent about something. Raise the emotional background. Anger, anger, indignation. (read comments under tricolors) And when emotions rule - logic and common sense are turned off.
Glory to the Airborne Forces !!!

[UFO]

It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties.

[mark1]

Quote: UFO

It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties.

We will have to share with the Turks - they are Crimea, we are Sevastopol, here we need to think a hundred times that Turkey is better in Crimea or Ukraine.

[starpom]

Quote: mark1

With the Turks will have to share

The Turks will tolerate. Let them develop their Ottoman empire towards Bulgaria, Georgia, etc. (if they allow). And it's time to return the Crimea. Crimean isthmus to demolish tries ... and build a big-o-oh cable-stayed bridge from Kerch (the more experience there is)

[UFO]

Nothing of the kind, Turkey does not pretend to Crimea while it is in the jurisdiction of Russia. Such an agreement is based on the results of the Russian-Turkish war.

[Good man]

Quote: UFO

Such an agreement is based on the results of the Russian-Turkish war.

That treaty was valid only until the next war. In general, go to school there to explain how the legal system works ... and do not write these nonsense.

[alex13-61]

Duc and after the 2nd world Crimea was part of Russia ... What kind of war is still necessary? ...

[Good man]

Quote: alex13-61

Duc and after the 2nd world Crimea was part of Russia ... What kind of war is still necessary? ...

Also a schoolboy?
Until the next Russo-Turkish war, he acted. After him, dozens of other treaties were signed. Only people who have not completed high school can recall this agreement. Ask your teacher about it rightfully ...

[Misantrop]

The Kuchuk-Kainardzhik peace treaty did not provide for the transfer of Crimea to Russia by anyone. And a separate clause stated that in the event of such a transfer, Crimea should be returned under the jurisdiction of Turkey. The contract, of course, is old. That's just nobody and never denounced ...

[Akim]

Quote: Misantrop

The Kuchuk-Kainardzhik peace treaty did not provide for the transfer of Crimea to Russia by anyone

I have deja vu. I heard such absurdity in the fall of 2003 (with Tuzla). Only then did Turkey officially declare that the treaty became invalid when Turkey became a republic. And she has no official territorial claims

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

even then Turkey officially announced

Turkey is simply physically unable to say anything. Since it has neither a mouth nor a lung (as well as the vocal cords). The government, then. And they have the property of periodically changing ... By the way, if the question is about legal subtleties. On the basis of which article of which contract was the city of Sevastopol transferred (which was not part of the Crimean region and had direct subordination to Moscow and its administration)? By the way, he is not a part of Crimea even now.

By the way, about Tuzla. On ALL maps it is called "Tuzla spit" and territorially does not belong to the Crimea ...

[Akim]

Quote: Misantrop

Based on what article of which contract was the city of Sevastopol transferred

I wrote above. Have doubts or documents - file a lawsuit. Romania condemned the piece. And so it is unsubstantiated balabolstvo. (not you, but politicians).

[mark1]

Why are you throwing cons to me? mine, perhaps the idea of ​​the Turks to complain about the Crimea. Or do you think that they will say - "yes yes dear, you beat us sometime so please take Crimea from these people, we respect you more ..." I just analyzed the situation you modeled

[Misantrop]

Quote: UFO

it is time to raise the question of the ownership of Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, in all seriousness

I am afraid that this question will soon arise itself in all its ugliness. If shale gas production begins in the southeast now, these areas will very quickly become uninhabitable. And then Crimea ACTUALLY will become something like an island .. And Ukraine, which is concerned about the distribution of refugee flows, will simply not be in the Crimea ...

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: UFO

It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties.

Well done. Run to the cashier, Judas.

[SCS]

as small children, they cannot agree ... what kind of diplomacy is this? respect yourself ...

[domovoi]

What the fuck is diplomacy ?! Here everything is decided solely by selfish interests. And Russia only dishonors itself, flirting with such mongrels as Ukraine. Ultimatums, power - then there will be a conversation. and then completely unbelted ...

[SCS]

Quote: domovoi

What the fuck is diplomacy ?! Here everything is decided solely by selfish interests. And Russia only dishonors itself, flirting with such mongrels as Ukraine. Ultimatums, power - then there will be a conversation. and then completely unbelted ...

ultimatums and so on - this is diplomacy, but under the word "force", what do you mean?
and flirting is probably such a hobby ... Uzbekistan, Tajikistan .... and the list is quite long!
and since the Russian leadership has a desire to create a new alliance, ultimatums and strength are not appropriate here! This is what the leaderships of the countries use, as you put it, with "selfish interests"! but that's for now ...

[domovoi]

Strength is a loose concept. It is clear that we are not talking about the Armed Forces. For example, economic sanctions - not to buy planes, engines from motors. You can also block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Europe, Ukrainian. goods tries not. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although this dumb * bam will not achieve anything, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, salary 5000 euros, and nothing needs to be done.

[porevith]

And if we join the Customs Union, then tomorrow will live better and more fun ??? And if you introduce sanctions who will win ???? The West, we are divided, we’ll also have to buy from them, since Russia is buying in Ukraine, it means it’s not ours, so it’s necessary to buy from them (Mistral) for example. But you should pay, pay, and don’t whine that they offend you.

[Misantrop]

Quote: porevith

But you should pay, pay, and don’t whine that they offend you.

These words would be in the ears of the Ukrainian government

[SCS]

all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!

[domovoi]

that is yes. and then in a hurry, or in a fit of emotion, you can make a strategic mistake.

[SCS]

Quote: domovoi

Strength is a loose concept. It is clear that we are not talking about the Armed Forces. For example, economic sanctions - not to buy planes, engines from motors. You can also block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Europe, Ukrainian. goods tries not. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although this dumb * bam will not achieve anything, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, salary 5000 euros, and nothing needs to be done.

all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!

[nickname 1 and 2]

And how do states at their bases pay for all these problems?

[Alex Nick]

I believe that if Crimea was donated by Russia to Ukraine, then the fleet should be there for free. This is the former Russian territory.

[alex13-61]

it was not a gift from Russia ... but an idiot Khrushch ... And if for you this is a "former" Russian territory, then the Crimeans do not consider themselves to be former Russians ...

[Vrungel78]

Comrade Ukrainians. It's time to understand that you do not have a state and join Russia. I speak without sarcasm. Together we are stronger.

[domovoi]

Yes, no one will ever join. Here the people are dumb like boots. Nobody needs it stronger, if only they could go to Europe without work visas.

[porevith]

Do you live there too, which is also stupid ???? Or if everything is so bad here, why aren’t you leaving ????

[domovoi]

porevith, first do not tell me what to do secondly - they are judged by the majority. the usa is also full of normal people, but for the most part it seems that there are only fat n * dory living there

[porevith]

And you do not generalize, and do not make me dumb, you may be surrounded by such people, but these are your problems. and I will not indicate what you do

[Zax]

Quote: domovoi

they only need to go to Europe without work visas.

In Europe, nobody needs them. In the same England is full of Balts and Poles who work for food, not to mention other countries.

[Egoza]

Quote: domovoi

they only need to go to Europe without work visas.

Please clarify that this is mainly necessary for the residents of the memory. Although, if the Russian Federation introduces visas to Ukraine as a result of signing any papers with the EU, then they will immediately "feel and penetrate"

[domovoi]

You see, dear Egoza, despite the fact that there are a lot of people earning money in Russia (I also work for a Russian company), the government exclusively defends its interests, but like everywhere else. Yes, and many enterprises operate on the Russian market. but, critical thinking is now out of fashion ...

[Mefodiy]

Quote: domovoi

Yes, no one will ever join. Here the people are dumb like boots. Nobody needs it stronger, if only they could go to Europe without work visas.

Yeah ... You just need to go to work in Siberia, the Far East and other warm places. In short, to where Moscow will say))) (And Muscovites will not go there, in extreme cases they will go to lead)

[Canep]

In turn, the ambassador-at-large of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Alexander Bavykin, stated that all cargo “that goes for the Black Sea Fleet today falls in Ukraine under the 20-interest tax. But we have studied Russian legislation and believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”

Imagine this situation, a cruise ship with rich passengers enters a foreign port. Happy customs officers come aboard and rewrite everything that passengers have brought, and the owner of the vessel is presented with an invoice for 20% of the total cost of the belongings of passengers, crew, fuel, and the vessel itself.
It does not smell gas but nonsense.
And now this cruise ship decided to leave the port. Again, happy customs officers come running, and they rewrite and present everything in a new way.
Ukrainian customs officers behave in much the same way as those happy customs officers.

[porevith]

What kind of nonsense are you writing, do you want to say if I (for example) build a house in Russia, and I will carry building materials from Ukraine in tons, then you won’t have to pay for it ???? think for yourself, or ask someone smarter

[wax]

A freebie corrupts, hope for it is the path to poverty.

[Egoza]

Quote: Akim

For a long time Russia did not pay for the lease of bases or for the thread, but the issues were resolved "secretly".

Specifically, dates, documents, inquiries, can you cite as an example if "facts have surfaced" already now?

[Akim]

Quote: Egoza

Namely dates, documents, requests

I understand that I would like to see everything documented, and such "lindens" as a report on escaped dolphins are born.

[Zax]

Quote: Akim

like a report on runaway dolphins.

Better tell me how dolphin fat tastes.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Akim

such "lindens" as the report on escaped dolphins are born.

And under the USSR periodically fled. One such few years entertained vacationers along the beaches along the coast (even in Anapa they met him). Then came back

[Akim]

Quote: Misantrop

Misantrop

I'm not talking about that, but about the document.

[SCS]

Quote: domovoi

Strength is a loose concept. It is clear that we are not talking about the Armed Forces. For example, economic sanctions - not to buy planes, engines from motors. You can also block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Europe, Ukrainian. goods tries not. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although this dumb * bam will not achieve anything, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, salary 5000 euros, and nothing needs to be done.

all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!

[Skavron]

I will express my opinion. Maybe, of course, someone will not like it, but nonetheless ...
Russia, for finding its fleet in Crimea, should not pay at all. For EXACTLY naval cargo, too. In exchange for this, it must maintain and repair the naval infrastructure, this time. And two, she must place her military and civilian orders at shipbuilding enterprises in Ukraine.
This is so ... as one of the options.
Of course, I understand that this opinion is absolutely not worked out, but the direction of cooperation should be like that. And what is happening now is spitting each other and they will not lead to good.
IMHO.

[Nevsky]

Skavron

Plus, the case said.

[Skavron]

Quote: Nevsky

Plus, the case said.

Yes, not at all.
I am always for partnership between our countries.

[avt]

Quote: Skavron

Of course, I understand that this opinion is absolutely not worked out, but the direction of cooperation should be like that.

This opinion works precisely in terms of seeking cooperation within the framework of at least the CSTO in protecting, if not the common market, then at least a single customs space or something similar to bilateral, but here Sevastopol got into a political exchange with the Fleet. And this is a completely different story, what kind of cooperation is it? There are only small and large dirty tricks to each other, depending on the capabilities. The situation will continue to be held hostage to political ambitions, alas, this is an objective reality that we all feel. I don’t see any light, and judging by the bonus that Lukashenko received in the form of a new pipeline and the situation with the aircraft industry, the Russian leadership does not see it either.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

And two, she must place her military and civilian orders at shipbuilding enterprises in Ukraine.

But these enterprises should be able to produce high-quality repairs of this equipment. And then, after all, the unfortunate submarine submarine "Zaporozhye" wherever they tried to fix it. The result is worse than negative. And they managed to do this only at the 13th plant in Sevastopol (which belongs to the Russian Federation)

[Skavron]

Quote: Misantrop

Here are just these enterprises

Yes, only these enterprises need orders, and as a result, money for modernization.
In order for the enterprise to be modernized or restored, it is not necessary just to pour money into it. It is necessary to create conditions for him in which the money will come into it.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

It is necessary to create conditions for him in which the money will come into it.

I agree completely. And also because the poured money will pour into the owner’s pocket, and not at all in production and personnel. But customs slingshots of these conditions will not help in any way ... This is, if not even counting the eternal squabble of governments. So far, the shipbuilders of Ukraine are almost entirely working at the shipbuilding enterprises of the Russian Federation and China

[andrejwz]

Quote: porevith

Or if everything is so bad here, why aren’t you leaving ????

And if everything is so good in Europe, then the suitcase is under your arm and forth. Well then you persecute others.

[Zax]

Quote: andrejwz

in Europe everything is so good, then a suitcase under your arm and forth

This one is right. In the vast b. ssr no prospects people no.

[Alex 31]

Neither change gender, nor pass a parade under the rainbow flag. It's time to blame!

I wish you all gathered there.

[dimon-media]

Russia is a generous soul. How many gifts are pouring from our side .. Crimea was presented and now you have to pay for the arrival of your fleet. This is a freebie .. A good gift. three in one. Like coffee bags. A huge territory for free and still rent, and also a tax on goods. And it's all from your own personal .. here do the good.

[nod739]

Quote: Kars

What? But Gasprom lacks a lot - Ukraine had the lowest transit tariffs (Belarus no longer has a GTS), but how much does it cost to pay for transit bypass routes (this even does not include the money that was buried during construction)

project cost less than 2% of the transit volume
therefore, payback within 2-4 years
and there is no war to discuss transit rates
previously discussed, it’s stupid not to agree but to build a new one. Well, right now, what ??? the train left

[Ruslan_F38]

Ukraine should wake up and come to its senses, NATO, the European Union and others will not help or defend Ukraine if something happens, you need to understand that the only country that Ukraine can turn to for any help including and military - Russia.

[Algor73]

Stormy passions. I read all the comments. Fearfully. God forbid some mess, the Russian brother will not go shoulder to shoulder with the Ukrainian to defend himself. It really hurts a lot of hatred. And for what? Because the Russian government wants by all means (and not always correct) to win their interests? And Ukraine is your own? That this is just a bidding - we are concessions on the Black Sea Fleet, and you are on An planes, etc. That the same power plunders everything from right to left no matter what, that the opinion of a simple, ordinary Citizen put him in the same point? Because they are cumming (Ukrainian politicians with Russians), behind the scenes of state affairs decide their mercantile? Why such hatred?

[a jacket]

Quote: domokl

Ukraine, in its repertoire, doesn’t even want to comment ...

Yeah ... Begging - that’s all that Ukraine will soon have to do. All pissed off. To Europe - on the run!
True, their happiness will soon begin:

[a jacket]

And what will happen if you put on all the prohibitions on fleet renewal with the device and bring something new to Sevastopol as a test balloon, and then say "It happened so" ...