Military Review

Ministry of Defense: Ukraine prevents the renewal of the Black Sea Fleet

66
The leadership of Ukraine delays the preparation of agreements on updating the Black Sea fleet, a senior official from the Russian Ministry of Defense said on Tuesday.


Ministry of Defense: Ukraine prevents the renewal of the Black Sea Fleet


According to him, the Ukrainian authorities, "as was the case with the former President Viktor Yushchenko, insist that the renewal of the forces of the Black Sea Fleet can be carried out only with the permission and under the control of the Ukrainian authorities."

It clarifies the "Interfax", the representative of the Ministry of Defense put the responsibility for delaying negotiations on agreements necessary for the Black Sea Fleet, the Ukrainian side, mentioning the reluctance of Kiev to decide on the abolition of customs duties when importing equipment and goods for the fleet.

Recall, on Friday, the head of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, Pavel Lebedev, said that Kiev had offered Moscow a number of joint projects in the field of military-technical cooperation, but had not received an answer on them for two months already. He noted that the issue of the duration of the Black Sea Fleet's stay in Sevastopol was not raised in these proposals.

He also referred to the agreement between Russia and Ukraine on the An-70 aircraft, which, according to him, “is not being fulfilled on the Russian side”. He added that "time will judge us."

On the eve of the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Anatoly Antonov said that the department was surprised by the statement of the head of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine about the prospects for the joint implementation of the project to create a military transport aircraft An-70.

“I recall that the Ministry of Defense of Russia fully fulfilled its financial obligations. At the same time, there are delays in financing from Ukraine. The project is funded by Kiev only 45%, "- said Antonov.
In November, 2012, the Russian Foreign Ministry said that the customs of Ukraine prevents the supply of fuel to the Black Sea Fleet.
October 19, following talks with the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Konstantin Gryshchenko, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that "there are advances on the Black Sea Fleet, but I would like to speed up the negotiation process."

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Konstantin Grishchenko reported that Kiev and Moscow will soon come to a mutually acceptable decision on the delimitation of the maritime border and the Kerch Strait.

October 4 Ukrainian Ambassador to Russia Vladimir Yelchenko said that Kiev intends to force the Russian Black Sea Fleet to pay taxes.

In May, the Sevastopol Regional Administrative Court ruled to recover from the Russian Ministry of Defense tax debt in the amount of 1,3 million hryvnia (more than 5 million rubles).

In April, Moscow offered Ukraine to exempt goods that come to the Crimea in the interests of the Russian Black Sea Fleet division from taxation.

In turn, the ambassador-at-large of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Alexander Bavykin, stated that all cargo “that goes for the Black Sea Fleet today falls in Ukraine under the 20-interest tax. But we have studied Russian legislation and believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”
Originator:
http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/4/16/629028.html
66 comments
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets April 17 2013 07: 55 New
    37
    Yeah, as in a proverb: it’s not so insulting that the cow died, it’s insulting that the neighbor is alive. what
    1. Vasily T.
      Vasily T. April 17 2013 08: 18 New
      +6
      Right, right to the bull's eye!
    2. vadimus
      vadimus April 17 2013 08: 39 New
      -2
      So it's time to update the Ministry of Defense ...
      1. alexng
        alexng April 17 2013 09: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: vadimus
        Army General
        vadimus FR Today, 08:39 ↑ New

        So it's time to update the Ministry of Defense ...


        In France?
        1. Zax
          Zax April 17 2013 10: 13 New
          -11
          In France, with the Ministry of Defense, everything is fine. It was you who was shoved down by a normal reformer minister and put in his place a clown who now, in favor of the same clown scoops, returns the fuck the unnecessary divisions and marches of the cadets in the parade.
          1. strannik595
            strannik595 April 17 2013 10: 53 New
            +4
            we can give it to you to increase defense capability, do not mind laughing .... and as for the scoops, if not for the scoops, the beauties of France still served the German occupation forces, and the French heroes bent their backs on Hans, so screw the tongue, wise guy
            1. Zax
              Zax April 17 2013 10: 55 New
              -5
              Great story is simple.
          2. DeerIvanovich
            DeerIvanovich April 17 2013 10: 58 New
            +3
            and why did they get angry because of our “soviet” clowns? your native France, it’s only at hand, for 1812 there will be an opportunity to take revenge laughing
            1. Zax
              Zax April 17 2013 11: 00 New
              -6
              I'm not worried. I laugh at how you drive the country back into the red abyss.
              1. DeerIvanovich
                DeerIvanovich April 17 2013 14: 27 New
                +1
                Laughter prolongs life, but I think it will not help you, because we are red villains, sooner or later, but our tentacles of the Evil Empire will get you the burzhins of the Empire of good, wherever you are ... laughing
          3. Net
            Net April 17 2013 11: 05 New
            +4
            A better division of normal men than a team of French gay males. De Gaulle would have turned over in his grave when he saw what France was turned into.
            1. Zax
              Zax April 17 2013 11: 07 New
              0
              If De Gaulle turned upside down, he would have turned over from France’s membership in NATO, which the French themselves are not very happy about. But France is once again going to leave NATO.
              1. Redmont
                Redmont April 17 2013 11: 31 New
                +3
                You said that everything is fine with the Minister ... So why, once again, he cannot listen to the majority of France and does not leave their NATO?
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 08: 00 New
    +5
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Yeah, as in a proverb: it’s not so insulting that the cow died, it’s insulting that the neighbor is alive.



    Especially if for this "insult" someone else's "good uncle" pays, and even to a specific performer ...
  3. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 17 2013 08: 03 New
    +6
    It smells of gas! And the "statesmen of Ukraine" say that Tymoshenko is not sitting in vain ..., others think the same way, but with a hint - while she is sitting, dividends for the gas agreement are being dripped, and the "statesmen" really want to take them away and redirect them into another pocket.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. April 17 2013 08: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: VadimSt
      It smells of gas!

      What does the gas have to do with it? Did Ukraine create problems for the Black Sea Fleet before signing the latest gas agreements, and the penultimate ones?
    2. Garrin
      Garrin April 17 2013 09: 14 New
      -2
      Quote: VadimSt
      It smells of gas!

      Right! The fact that from the intestine is expelled.
    3. Good man
      Good man April 17 2013 09: 29 New
      +8
      Quote: VadimSt
      also the "statesmen of Ukraine" say that Tymoshenko is not sitting in vain ..., others think the same way, but with a hint - while she is sitting, dividends for the gas agreement are being dripped,

      Yeah, they also say that Putin eats children and transfers all his salary to Tymoshenko. laughing
    4. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich April 17 2013 11: 01 New
      0
      correctly noticed, the denyuzhka for gas (rollback) continues to drip into Tymoshenko’s accounts inaccessible to the Ukrainian authorities ... It infuriates them, so they are trying by all means to push a new gas contract so that the denyuzhka for gas will already drop into their accounts, and not the damned Tymoshenko , which, moreover, didn’t beat the rollback itself ... winked
      1. Good man
        Good man April 17 2013 11: 53 New
        0
        Quote: DeerIvanovich
        correctly noticed, denyuzhka for gas (rollback) continues to drip into Tymoshenko’s accounts inaccessible to the Ukrainian authorities.

        Please share the source of information.
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak April 17 2013 12: 35 New
          +1
          Somewhere else, spring has not arrived. So they say they get warm.
        2. DeerIvanovich
          DeerIvanovich April 17 2013 13: 10 New
          -1
          what else, when the denyuzhka is dripping with information they don’t share, otherwise you’ll suddenly be quicker than me to save these denyuzhki ... uh ... it’s not good laughing
  4. domokl
    domokl April 17 2013 08: 06 New
    13
    Ukraine, in its repertoire, I don’t even want to comment ... As always, it’s from a bad mind to a healthy one .. We are obliged again, we must, rob and other ... Boredom .. And let Ukraine and Russia tell me fraternal countries again, we need to agree. .Yes, you need to agree, but it's time to stop mumble ... It's time to strangle ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel April 17 2013 08: 40 New
      +3
      Allow you to object. Does it not seem to you (I absolutely do not support Yanukovych and his actions) that Mr. Putin is very mean-spirited. Especially when his Yanukovych project doesn’t work (maybe you remember how in the first presidential election, he managed to congratulate him three times before the official announcement of Yanukovych’s failure.)
      They have their own undercover games. Let's be smarter. We will not blame each other for what we are not allowed at all, let alone decide, even in elections.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 17 2013 10: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Allow you to object. Doesn’t it seem to you (I completely do not support Yanukovych and his actions) that Mr. Putin is very mean-spirited

        Hello Odessa! Pleasantly surprised by your comment.
      2. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 17 2013 12: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Mr. Putin is very mean. Especially when his Yanukovych project does not work

        Oh how! What led to such deep analytics and rhetoric?
        But does Putin sometimes send back nothing of this “project” without accepting it when he arrives in Moscow? You better figure out how many rounds you have with your choices: two, three, five, eight - and clearly report after which congratulations, otherwise people get confused. Adjusted for new trends, like, I’ll elect myself, but I won’t work and I won’t give others.

        And further. If the "Yanukovych project" was a failure, then it should be thought that the "Yushchenko project" was a success. So how did it help Ukraine? I'm not saying that this "success" was made for Russian-Ukrainian relations.
        Dynamics of the external debt of Ukraine
    2. kot9ra
      kot9ra April 17 2013 10: 49 New
      +2
      why rhinestones Ukraine, you need to write "the torment of Ukraine", who consider themselves rulers, and in our everyday life simply "clowns". The people are silent, and units are plundered. And about strangling it, yes ... for the pitchfork, brothers ...
    3. ars_pro
      ars_pro April 17 2013 13: 40 New
      +2
      do they have nothing to do, the Ukrainian authorities have nothing to do ??? people are starving and they think for kickbacks !!!
  5. awg75
    awg75 April 17 2013 08: 07 New
    +4
    friendship is friendship, and pies should be apart ... you must not allow a foreign state to control our army (their own then they already completely collapsed)
    1. Akhtuba73
      Akhtuba73 April 17 2013 10: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: awg75
      friendship is friendship, and the pies should be apart ...

      Yeah ... so they laid out pies and friendship in different angles. If such a story had happened between Russia and Portugal or the Philippines, then everything is clear as God's day - business and nothing personal. But here! Brotherly people, Slavs, ancestors of Russian cities ... (srach of the last twenty years against the backdrop of a thousand-year history is just a grain of sand on the beach)
  6. kvodrato
    kvodrato April 17 2013 08: 11 New
    +8
    While in the government of Ukraine there are many Western agents who look at Amer, they will interfere with the constant rapprochement of Russia and Ukraine with essentially one single people.
  7. Akim
    Akim April 17 2013 08: 12 New
    -3
    the cargo “that goes today for the Black Sea Fleet falls in Ukraine under a 20 percent tax. But we studied Russian legislation and we believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”

    Explain. What does the Russian legislation have to do with the territory of Ukraine?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 17 2013 08: 18 New
      +9
      Quote: Akim
      Explain. What does the Russian legislation have to do with the territory of Ukraine?

      Indeed, nothing to do with it. But Ukraine has nothing to do with the cargo for the Black Sea Fleet.
      1. Akim
        Akim April 17 2013 08: 51 New
        -3
        The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.
        1. domovoi
          domovoi April 17 2013 09: 01 New
          +5
          This is the territory of Ukraine leased from Russia by the Ukrainian government. What free
          1. Akim
            Akim April 17 2013 09: 07 New
            -4
            Quote: domovoi
            This is the territory of Ukraine leased from Russia by the Ukrainian government. What free

            Put your historical justice deep into W ... I do not interfere with politics here. One pure economy and jurisprudence Now this is the legal territory of another state and the Black Sea Fleet is obliged to obey its laws. He is the same legal entity as TNK.
            1. Egoza
              Egoza April 17 2013 10: 30 New
              +5
              Quote: Akim
              Now this is the legal territory of another state

              So the fact of the matter is that ILLEGAL! There is not a single document according to which Sevastopol was included in the Crimean region, which Khrushchev gave to Ukraine. It was a city of all-Union significance. And if the Ukrainian authorities greatly bother with their stupidity, then this issue is very easy to challenge in the European Court. And who will benefit from this? fellow
              1. Akim
                Akim April 17 2013 10: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Egoza
                There is not a single document by which Sevastopol was included in the Crimean region

                No - let the Russian government sue, not blackmail it. This is a fairy tale about a white bull.
            2. Ezhaak
              Ezhaak April 17 2013 12: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              One clean economy and jurisprudence


              It is precisely at your request that Russian Railways launched trains running towards Chechnya, Dagestan and the Caucasus, bypassing Kharkov and Lozova. And Ukraine lost its deng. Not a few. Soon, Ukraine will be freed from the money that is paid for basing the Black Sea Fleet. With gas transit, I hope there is no need to tell what exactly Ukraine has lost. Pride must be shown. But within reasonable limits. And remember, the greed of the fraer is ruining.
              1. Kars
                Kars April 17 2013 12: 59 New
                0
                Quote: Hedgehog
                towards Chechnya, Dagestan and Transcaucasia

                Yes, for God's sake, I would even add that such routes pass by Ukraine.
                Quote: Hedgehog
                soon Ukraine will be freed from the money that is paid for basing the Black Sea Fleet

                It is strange why the Russian Federation signed an extension agreement for 25 years.
                Quote: Hedgehog
                With gas transit, I hope there is no need to tell what exactly Ukraine lost

                What? But Gasprom lacks a lot - Ukraine had the lowest transit tariffs (Belarus no longer has a GTS), but how much does it cost to pay for transit bypass routes (this even does not include the money that was buried during construction)

                And by the way, it is very likely that the payment for the lease of Sevostopol will increase soon, as the discount on the results of the signing of the Kharkov agreements becomes illiquid in view of the reduction in gas purchases from Gasprom.
                1. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak April 17 2013 13: 08 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  I would even add that such routes pass by Ukraine.

                  Well, as always, after what happened. It is called after a fight to wave fists. But the factories like the car-building plant in Panyutino are left without orders.
                  Quote: Kars
                  why did the Russian Federation sign an extension agreement for 25 years

                  Probably, so that you roll your lips more. Usually, we are required to learn from someone else's mistakes. But this is the lot of smart people. Does Gabala give you an example of anything? Remember. Russia can do without you. But I have to think about all the relatives living there. Half of the family is tearing to Russia for poor pensions, and the second is tearing the navel, eating the "huge" Ukrainian pensions.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars April 17 2013 16: 58 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    Probably to make you roll your lips more

                    So what in 17 withdraw?
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    Am the example of Gabala hinting at nothing? Remember. Russia can do without you

                    It was written as if you were being asked for the remainder, and it is impossible to conduct commercial activities with the territories rented by the Russian Federation under the Black Sea Fleet base, while it is still unknown what will be more profitable.
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    But I have to think about my relatives living there

                    So you are our benefactor, we will know.
              2. Akim
                Akim April 17 2013 16: 29 New
                -2
                Quote: Hedgehog
                And remember, the greed of the fraer is ruining.

                I think the same thing can be said about Gazprom.
        2. xan
          xan April 17 2013 09: 08 New
          +4
          Quote: Akim
          Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

          Chtoli read the lease agreement?
          Why was there no question before, but now it suddenly arises?
          1. Akim
            Akim April 17 2013 09: 15 New
            0
            Yes, and before it was, it just was not made public. When such topics pop up in the media, this is the last reason to influence society, because the legal basis has ended. Like Miller’s statements or a long-standing conflict with the scythe / Tuzla island.
            1. xan
              xan April 17 2013 09: 44 New
              -2
              Quote: Akim
              Yes, and before it was, it just was not made public. When such topics pop up in the media, this is the last reason to influence society, because the legal basis has ended.

              I correctly understood, before ours paid and did not show off, and now suddenly decided not to pay?
              1. Akim
                Akim April 17 2013 09: 59 New
                -3
                Quote: xan
                I correctly understood, before ours paid and did not show off, and now suddenly decided not to pay?

                Yes it was. But the Ukrainian government turned a blind eye to much. For a long time Russia did not pay for the rental of bases or for NITKU, but the issues were resolved "undercover." Now everyone has transferred to economic laths, so many facts have surfaced,
                1. Zax
                  Zax April 17 2013 10: 37 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Akim
                  but questions were resolved "undercover."

                  ... spare parts for MiGs.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim April 17 2013 10: 51 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Zax
                    ... spare parts for MiGs.

                    For Dryers. But they were not given for a long time. This year barter was replaced with money, because the Ukrainian military-industrial complex itself began to produce analogues.
                    1. Zax
                      Zax April 17 2013 10: 53 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Akim
                      For Dryers

                      What's the difference.
                      1. Akim
                        Akim April 17 2013 11: 10 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Zax
                        What's the difference.

                        In price. And MiGremontservice has been manufacturing components for a long time.
                2. Ezhaak
                  Ezhaak April 17 2013 12: 58 New
                  0
                  So what now? THREAD at you. How much profit does it bring to Ukraine? But it is also required to service it. Change worn knots. That thread will definitely rust. Oh, how fair is the joke about a comrade who does not eat, but bites.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars April 17 2013 13: 17 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Hedgehog
                    How much profit does it bring to Ukraine?

                    We won’t find a new tenant, we’ll dismantle it, sell it to China, some to scrap, or to build other objects. We are rehabilitating the land. In Crimea, in the resort area, it will not remain long.
                    1. Ezhaak
                      Ezhaak April 17 2013 13: 24 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      we will sell part to China, part to scrap

                      No doubt. You are capable of it. A history of evidence has facts.
                      And there poppy can grow well!
                    2. Ezhaak
                      Ezhaak April 17 2013 13: 50 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      Kars

                      And in the appendage. I understand everything and I understand everything. The trifle is incomprehensible. If Ukraine is so cool and strong and rich, explain to me why it’s not me who works somewhere in Kharkov or Lviv, and my nephew, a Ukrainian citizen, works without a hitch in Podolsk. How Ukraine sank to the like, without providing its citizens with jobs with a decent salary. And mind you. Russians have no complaints against such workers !!
                      Ukraine is not going to recall its citizens from Russia? And it turns out that Ukrainians pratsuyut on the Moscow coast. Some disgrace.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars April 17 2013 15: 21 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        If Ukraine is so cool and strong and rich

                        Maybe I would explain if you quote where I stated this.
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        I don’t work anywhere in Kharkov or Lviv

                        Maybe your specialty is not in demand with us?
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        How Ukraine sank to the like, not providing its citizens with jobs with decent salaries

                        And why did they write that there are no unemployed in the Russian Federation and the citizens of the Russian Federation do not work abroad.
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        Ukraine is not going to recall its citizens from Russia?

                        But are they serfs? We seem to have freedom, wherever you want or where to take
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        No doubt. You are capable of it.

                        And what is wrong with this for Ukraine? There are no prospects for carrier aircraft in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, so the object is useless for us.
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        And there poppy can grow well!

                        you know better.
                      2. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak April 17 2013 18: 40 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Maybe I would explain if you quote where I stated this.

                        Intonation, my friend, intonation. And can I just ignore you so that I won’t be too considered a troll? Like your countrywoman Akim which.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars April 17 2013 18: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        Intonation, my friend, intonation.

                        Intonation? What are you? Really?
                        Quote: Hedgehog
                        Or can I just ignore you

                        What else do you have?
        3. Egoza
          Egoza April 17 2013 10: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: Akim
          this is the last reason to influence society,

          Well yes! Explain to society why they continue to please the nationalists, but at the same time I really want to stay clean! angry
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop April 17 2013 09: 28 New
      +6
      Quote: Akim
      therefore, all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.
      That's it, no need to speculate. PRODUCTS (i.e. cargo intended for SALE on the territory of the state) are subject to taxation. But ... again I really want money, therefore, they are looking for where the law can be "moved" ... wink
      1. Akim
        Akim April 17 2013 09: 39 New
        -1
        Ay-yai-yay is not good not to know. Any goods, even transit, are taxed. And why do you think the port areas are so rich? Not taxed, only humanitarian goods and those that have a preferential subvention. As I understand it, Russia wants to achieve it for parts of the Black Sea Fleet, which are located on the territory of Ukraine. That is the whole conflict in this matter.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop April 17 2013 10: 34 New
          +4
          Quote: Akim
          Any goods, even transit, are taxed.
          With a strong desire, you can tax anything, even this message. And the law is appropriate to cook up. The head of the Sevastopol customs has already tried to tax a barge that collects (let's say, waste from the vital functions of human organisms) from ships that are on the roadstead during customs procedures and cargo clearance. And then he crosses the loaded customs border and does not pay at the same time ... He ridiculed the whole city and flew off the post laughing
    3. avt
      avt April 17 2013 09: 31 New
      +2
      Quote: Akim
      The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

      good By the way, this is a good argument for Kazakh partners about investing and developing Baikonur. All groans about an unfriendly attitude and throwing money at the Oriental, artistic whistle in general, well, but a specific everyday situation. So what ? Everything is clear with Vostochny, well, God forbid, what a mess, please give the allies the army and navy. But in such a “rental” situation, what do you want to do? Again, straighten gas prices?
      1. Akim
        Akim April 17 2013 09: 54 New
        -1
        Gas prices are already flattened, and as a result, Ukraine will receive a third of the exported gas this year not from Russia. And the way for Turkmen gas would have been opened, maybe more. But this is already politics. The trouble with many VO respondents is that they perceive it all as a personal insult and translate the economy into politics. But the fact is the fact. There are two sovereign states that are not members of an economic or military alliance and are required to comply with intergovernmental agreements.
        1. avt
          avt April 17 2013 10: 11 New
          +5
          Quote: Akim
          There are two sovereign states that are not members of an economic or military alliance and are required to comply with intergovernmental agreements.

          Well do request , and do not include the fool about unfair prices for the fraternal people. Well twisted through Hungary - your thieves' happiness, download more and faster and pay the contract for the shortfall. And this.
          Quote: Akim
          The trouble with many VO respondents is that they perceive it all as a personal insult and translate the economy into politics.
          You write for suckers, well, or repeat it to yourself in front of the mirror, for the time being any one is perceived as a terrible insult to an independent state. Well, even a slight bewilderment from the opposite side [I don’t even speak about radical statements} - of course, imperial ambitions and a nagging young democratic democracy with a proposal do not take to heart. Each sovereign state has its own interests. And with what fright do we put your interests above our own?
          1. Akim
            Akim April 17 2013 11: 15 New
            0
            Quote: avt
            avt

            I’m no longer interested in talking with you. Russia has legal claims filed with arbitration. And to go down to your level and conduct a discussion in the form of insults is not for me.
    4. Egoza
      Egoza April 17 2013 10: 26 New
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      therefore, all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

      Was this indicated in the contract? Not? So nothing is done retroactively! Everything that was contracted by Russia was being carried out. But from Ukraine - no! Especially financing.
      However, given that the Svolotovites and Oppa are demanding a review of the treaty and generally denying Russia a base in Sevastopol, there is nothing surprising.
      1. Akim
        Akim April 17 2013 10: 33 New
        +1
        Elena, you saw this contract. I think no. In hindsight, they wanted to return the lighthouses and Yusch didn’t succeed. Now a mirror situation.
        1. xan
          xan April 17 2013 15: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Akim
          Elena, you saw this contract. I think no.

          I think you haven’t seen it either, however you declare
          Quote: Akim
          Yes it was. But the Ukrainian government turned a blind eye to much. For a long time Russia did not pay for the rental of bases or for NITKU, but the issues were resolved "undercover." Now everyone has transferred to economic laths, so many facts have surfaced,
          1. Akim
            Akim April 17 2013 16: 22 New
            -1
            Did you and I thump together that you switched to “You”? Yes, I did not see the entire text of the contract. But if claims are made not through the legal side, but through public opinion., Then it is probably not there that the dog rummaged. Go to court or publish the contract in the press, and do not make a loud statement.
    5. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. April 17 2013 12: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Akim
      all goods fall under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this

      How much do the US pay Japan taxes for “shipments” to Okinawa? Or Kyrgyzstan for transit, where it is also only “for rent”?
      1. Akim
        Akim April 17 2013 12: 41 New
        0
        It all depends on the contract. Cuba, the United States pays for Guantanamo 5 silver dollars (that's about 100 bucks) and neigh over them. I don’t know for Japan, but all cargo in Germany must undergo control procedures and a tax on them is also obtained. In the US Army, this mechanism is clear.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. April 17 2013 13: 05 New
          0
          It should be understood that not all of your statements are true, for example:
          Quote: Akim
          The bases in Sevastopol are not the property of Russia (please do not forget this), but are just leased. Therefore, there is no transit zone and corridor, as we say through the Baltic States to Kaliningrad, so all cargo falls under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government and there is no need to speculate on this.

          because:
          Quote: Akim
          It all depends on the contract

          Those. You are familiar with the lease of the Black Sea Fleet base. Please give a link. And, if possible, a German example.
          1. Akim
            Akim April 17 2013 16: 24 New
            -2
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            And, if possible, a German example.

            This was stated in one of the television programs, it takes a very long time to search.
  • Nikolko
    Nikolko April 17 2013 08: 21 New
    +7
    Damn, I’m just fucking from Ukraine. The Black Sea Fleet is the guarantor of the security of Ukraine, and in case of war our Black Sea Fleet will be blown away, not only does it protect them, WE PAY FOR THEM ALREADY, and they bl * are not happy yet !!!!!
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 17 2013 09: 00 New
      11
      What do you want? It is the United States that pays the money (they print it), and you can wipe your feet about Russia too ... But Russia itself is to blame, which is talking about all sorts of nonsense. Turkmenistan, Ukraine ... Sanctions, pressure - the result! All the same, the United States will not replace a full-fledged economy that without Russia will bend ...
    2. porevith
      porevith April 17 2013 10: 35 New
      -6
      The guarantor of security from whom ????? And the fleet of Turkey itself is already bigger and more powerful than the Black Sea Fleet wink
      1. Nikolko
        Nikolko April 17 2013 13: 22 New
        -1
        Well, yes. The Turks have the entire fleet as our Black Sea Fleet, only they have more submarines.
        1. Waterfall
          Waterfall April 17 2013 13: 30 New
          -4
          Quote: Nikolko
          only they have more submarines

          14 vs 1 submarine, it’s not just more. This is a defeat, given the wretchedness of 877.
          Quote: Nikolko
          The Turks have the whole fleet as our Black Sea Fleet

          The Black Sea Fleet would have 16 frigates ... In reality, there are 2 ancient BODs and 2 ancient TFRs.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop April 17 2013 18: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: porevith
        And the fleet of Turkey itself is already bigger and more powerful than the Black Sea Fleet
        Why, they’re upgrading their fleet. An interesting position: do not let the Black Sea Fleet be modernized and immediately declare that the Black Sea Fleet is weak and is not able to protect anyone
  • Soldier
    Soldier April 17 2013 08: 22 New
    15
    To the inhabitants of Ukraine. Damn, men, we also don’t like our ghouls from the government, there are enough reptiles everywhere, but it’s such a sensation that you still have the 90s. Can you crush your oligarchs-natsurodki? All your life lived together, and now every n endo-Nazi trash rubbing us and you, that we are different.
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 17 2013 08: 54 New
      10
      I will say an opinion from the Ukrainian layman. Some say that power is one thing, but the people want with Russia. He doesn’t want them! They like stupid donkeys vote every election, hope, and then disappointedly vote for their opponents. And now here again - all for the opposition. Europe, sour coast, s / n 10000 euros ... yeah. Dumb.
    2. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz April 17 2013 10: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Armeec
      and now every n endo-Nazi trash rubs us and you, that we are different.

      Brother, the Russian channels are rubbed by the Russians that the Ukrainians are rubbed by. Question: Russian channels - Russian? Do they lead Russian politics? You understand, any news can be submitted in different ways. Keep silent about the prehistory, precedents, something to stick out, and keep silent about something. Raise the emotional background. Anger, anger, indignation. (read comments under tricolors) And when emotions rule - logic and common sense are turned off.
      Glory to the Airborne Forces !!!
  • UFO
    UFO April 17 2013 08: 23 New
    -2
    It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties. hi
    1. mark1
      mark1 April 17 2013 08: 50 New
      -6
      Quote: UFO
      It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties.

      We will have to share with the Turks - they are Crimea, we are Sevastopol, here we need to think a hundred times that Turkey is better in Crimea or Ukraine.
      1. starpom
        starpom April 17 2013 09: 10 New
        +6
        Quote: mark1
        With the Turks will have to share

        The Turks will tolerate. Let them develop their Ottoman empire towards Bulgaria, Georgia, etc. (if they allow). And it's time to return the Crimea. Crimean isthmus to demolish tries ... and build a big-o-oh cable-stayed bridge from Kerch (the more experience there is) wink
      2. UFO
        UFO April 17 2013 09: 28 New
        +1
        Nothing of the kind, Turkey does not pretend to Crimea while it is in the jurisdiction of Russia. Such an agreement is based on the results of the Russian-Turkish war. hi
        1. Good man
          Good man April 17 2013 09: 40 New
          -7
          Quote: UFO
          Such an agreement is based on the results of the Russian-Turkish war.

          That treaty was valid only until the next war. In general, go to school there to explain how the legal system works ... and do not write these nonsense.
          1. alex13-61
            alex13-61 April 17 2013 10: 01 New
            +7
            Duc and after the 2nd world Crimea was part of Russia ... What kind of war is still necessary? ...
            1. Good man
              Good man April 17 2013 10: 52 New
              -3
              Quote: alex13-61
              Duc and after the 2nd world Crimea was part of Russia ... What kind of war is still necessary? ...

              Also a schoolboy?
              Until the next Russo-Turkish war, he acted. After him, dozens of other treaties were signed. Only people who have not completed high school can recall this agreement. Ask your teacher about it rightfully ...
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop April 17 2013 16: 58 New
            -1
            The Kuchuk-Kainardzhik peace treaty did not provide for the transfer of Crimea to Russia by anyone. And a separate clause stated that in the event of such a transfer, Crimea should be returned under the jurisdiction of Turkey. The contract, of course, is old. That's just nobody and never denounced ...
            1. Akim
              Akim April 17 2013 17: 10 New
              -1
              Quote: Misantrop
              The Kuchuk-Kainardzhik peace treaty did not provide for the transfer of Crimea to Russia by anyone

              I have deja vu. I heard such absurdity in the fall of 2003 (with Tuzla). Only then did Turkey officially declare that the treaty became invalid when Turkey became a republic. And she has no official territorial claims
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop April 17 2013 18: 04 New
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                even then Turkey officially announced
                Turkey is simply physically unable to say anything. Since it has neither a mouth nor a lung (as well as the vocal cords). The government, then. And they have the property of periodically changing ... By the way, if the question is about legal subtleties. On the basis of which article of which contract was the city of Sevastopol transferred (which was not part of the Crimean region and had direct subordination to Moscow and its administration)? By the way, he is not a part of Crimea even now.

                By the way, about Tuzla. On ALL maps, it is called the "Tuzla Spit" and does not belong to Crimea territorially ...
                1. Akim
                  Akim April 17 2013 18: 14 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Based on what article of which contract was the city of Sevastopol transferred

                  I wrote above. Have doubts or documents - file a lawsuit. Romania condemned the piece. And so it is unsubstantiated balabolstvo. (not you, but politicians).
      3. mark1
        mark1 April 17 2013 10: 22 New
        0
        Why are you throwing me cons? my, perhaps the idea of ​​the Turks complaining about the Crimea. Or do you think that they will say - "yes yes dear, you beat us when so please take the Crimea from these s, we respect you more ..." I just analyzed the situation you simulated
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop April 17 2013 09: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: UFO
      it is time to raise the question of the ownership of Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, in all seriousness
      I am afraid that this question will soon arise itself in all its ugliness. If shale gas production begins in the southeast now, these areas will very quickly become uninhabitable. And then Crimea ACTUALLY will become something like an island .. And Ukraine, which is concerned about the distribution of refugee flows, will simply not be in the Crimea ...
    3. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz April 17 2013 10: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: UFO
      It seems to me that it is time to raise the question of the identity of the Crimea and Sevastopol, in particular, with all seriousness. From a legal point of view, with the involvement of Turkey in a dispute, based on international treaties.

      Well done. Run to the cashier, Judas.
  • SCS
    SCS April 17 2013 08: 33 New
    +2
    as small children, they cannot agree ... what kind of diplomacy is this? respect yourself ...
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 17 2013 08: 56 New
      +2
      What the fuck is diplomacy ?! Here everything is decided solely by selfish interests. And Russia only dishonors itself, flirting with such mongrels as Ukraine. Ultimatums, power - then there will be a conversation. and then completely unbelted ...
      1. SCS
        SCS April 17 2013 09: 23 New
        0
        Quote: domovoi
        What the fuck is diplomacy ?! Here everything is decided solely by selfish interests. And Russia only dishonors itself, flirting with such mongrels as Ukraine. Ultimatums, power - then there will be a conversation. and then completely unbelted ...

        ultimatums and so on - that’s diplomacy, but under the word “power,” what do you mean?
        and flirting is probably such a hobby ... Uzbekistan, Tajikistan .... and the list is quite long!
        and since the Russian leadership has a desire to create a new union, ultimatums and strength are not appropriate here! This is what the leaders of the countries, as you put it, with "selfish interests" use it! but for now ...
        1. domovoi
          domovoi April 17 2013 09: 42 New
          +4
          Strength is a loose concept. It’s clear that it’s not about the sun. For example, economic sanctions - do not buy aircraft, engines from motors. You can block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Ukrainian goods nah is not necessary. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although nothing will come of this fucking * bang, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, sn 5000 euros, and nothing will have to be done.
          1. porevith
            porevith April 17 2013 10: 30 New
            -4
            And if we join the Customs Union, then tomorrow will live better and more fun ??? laughing And if you introduce sanctions who will win ???? The West, we are divided, we’ll also have to buy from them, since Russia is buying in Ukraine, it means it’s not ours, so it’s necessary to buy from them (Mistral) for example. But you should pay, pay, and don’t whine that they offend you.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop April 17 2013 18: 25 New
              0
              Quote: porevith
              But you should pay, pay, and don’t whine that they offend you.
              These words would be in the ears of the Ukrainian government laughing
          2. SCS
            SCS April 17 2013 10: 48 New
            0
            all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
            I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!
            1. domovoi
              domovoi April 17 2013 10: 52 New
              +1
              that is yes. and then in a hurry, or in a fit of emotion, you can make a strategic mistake.
          3. SCS
            SCS April 17 2013 10: 50 New
            0
            Quote: domovoi
            Strength is a loose concept. It’s clear that it’s not about the sun. For example, economic sanctions - do not buy aircraft, engines from motors. You can block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Ukrainian goods nah is not necessary. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although nothing will come of this fucking * bang, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, sn 5000 euros, and nothing will have to be done.


            all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
            I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 April 17 2013 09: 04 New
    +1
    And how do states at their bases pay for all these problems?
  • Alex Nick
    Alex Nick April 17 2013 09: 25 New
    +2
    I believe that if Crimea was donated by Russia to Ukraine, then the fleet should be there for free. This is the former Russian territory.
    1. alex13-61
      alex13-61 April 17 2013 10: 11 New
      +8
      it was not donated by Russia ... but an idiot Khrushchev ... And if for you this is the "former" Russian territory, then the Crimeans do not consider themselves former Russians ...
  • Vrungel78
    Vrungel78 April 17 2013 09: 34 New
    +3
    Comrade Ukrainians. It's time to understand that you do not have a state and join Russia. I speak without sarcasm. Together we are stronger. drinks
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 17 2013 09: 45 New
      +4
      Yes, no one will ever join. Here the people are dumb like boots. Nobody needs it stronger, if only they could go to Europe without work visas.
      1. porevith
        porevith April 17 2013 10: 19 New
        -6
        Do you live there too, which is also stupid ???? Or if everything is so bad here, why aren’t you leaving ????
        1. domovoi
          domovoi April 17 2013 10: 50 New
          +4
          porevith, first do not tell me what to do stop secondly - they are judged by the majority. the usa is also full of normal people, but for the most part it seems that there are only fat n * dory living there
          1. porevith
            porevith April 17 2013 10: 56 New
            -3
            And you do not generalize, and do not make me dumb, you may be surrounded by such people, but these are your problems. and I will not indicate what you do smile
      2. Zax
        Zax April 17 2013 10: 30 New
        -1
        Quote: domovoi
        they only need to go to Europe without work visas.

        In Europe, nobody needs them. In the same England is full of Balts and Poles who work for food, not to mention other countries.
      3. Egoza
        Egoza April 17 2013 10: 45 New
        +3
        Quote: domovoi
        they only need to go to Europe without work visas.

        Please clarify that this is mainly necessary for residents of the memory. Although, if the Russian Federation introduces visas with Ukraine based on the results of signing any pieces of paper with the EU, then they will immediately “feel and feel” laughing
        1. domovoi
          domovoi April 17 2013 10: 56 New
          +2
          You see, dear Egoza, despite the fact that there are a lot of people earning money in Russia (I also work for a Russian company), the government exclusively defends its interests, but like everywhere else. Yes, and many enterprises operate on the Russian market. but, critical thinking is now out of fashion ...
      4. Mefodiy
        Mefodiy April 17 2013 11: 24 New
        -4
        Quote: domovoi
        Yes, no one will ever join. Here the people are dumb like boots. Nobody needs it stronger, if only they could go to Europe without work visas.

        Yeah ... You just need to go to work in Siberia, the Far East and other warm places. In short, to where Moscow will say))) (And Muscovites will not go there, in extreme cases they will go to lead)
  • Canep
    Canep April 17 2013 10: 15 New
    +5
    In turn, the ambassador-at-large of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Alexander Bavykin, stated that all cargo “that goes for the Black Sea Fleet today falls in Ukraine under the 20-interest tax. But we have studied Russian legislation and believe that this tax is taken without any legal basis. ”

    Imagine this situation, a cruise ship with rich passengers enters a foreign port. Happy customs officers come aboard and rewrite everything that passengers have brought, and the owner of the vessel is presented with an invoice for 20% of the total cost of the belongings of passengers, crew, fuel, and the vessel itself.
    It does not smell gas but nonsense.
    And now this cruise ship decided to leave the port. Again, happy customs officers come running, and they rewrite and present everything in a new way.
    Ukrainian customs officers behave in much the same way as those happy customs officers.
    1. porevith
      porevith April 17 2013 10: 51 New
      -1
      What kind of nonsense are you writing, do you want to say if I (for example) build a house in Russia, and I will carry building materials from Ukraine in tons, then you won’t have to pay for it ???? think for yourself, or ask someone smarter laughing
  • wax
    wax April 17 2013 10: 27 New
    +4
    A freebie corrupts, hope for it is the path to poverty.
  • Egoza
    Egoza April 17 2013 10: 36 New
    +3
    Quote: Akim
    For a long time Russia did not pay for the rental of bases or for NITKU, but the issues were resolved "undercover."

    Specifically, dates, documents, requests, can you give as an example, if now the "facts surfaced"?
    1. Akim
      Akim April 17 2013 11: 02 New
      -3
      Quote: Egoza
      Namely dates, documents, requests

      I understand that I would like to see everything confirmed by documents and such "limes" as a report on runaway dolphins appear.
      1. Zax
        Zax April 17 2013 11: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Akim
        like a report on runaway dolphins.

        Better tell me how dolphin fat tastes.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop April 17 2013 18: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Akim
        "limes" such as a report on runaway dolphins are born.
        And under the USSR periodically fled. One such few years entertained vacationers along the beaches along the coast (even in Anapa they met him). Then came back
        1. Akim
          Akim April 17 2013 18: 41 New
          -1
          Quote: Misantrop
          Misantrop

          I'm not talking about that, but about the document.
  • SCS
    SCS April 17 2013 10: 50 New
    0
    Quote: domovoi
    Strength is a loose concept. It’s clear that it’s not about the sun. For example, economic sanctions - do not buy aircraft, engines from motors. You can block food. Let the Ukrainian government feel the spirit of independence! And in Ukrainian goods nah is not necessary. And let people see the results of European integration ... Although nothing will come of this fucking * bang, they are "0" in the economy. They think that as soon as we join the EU, the next day there will be excellent roads, sn 5000 euros, and nothing will have to be done.


    all that is listed is clear, like God's day!
    I agree with that! only if all this is embodied, then the opponents of the GDP and in general the TS will have such a trump card .... here you need to think over the actions for at least a decade !!!!
  • Skavron
    Skavron April 17 2013 10: 53 New
    +7
    I will express my opinion. Maybe, of course, someone will not like it, but nonetheless ...
    Russia, for finding its fleet in Crimea, should not pay at all. For EXACTLY naval cargo, too. In exchange for this, it must maintain and repair the naval infrastructure, this time. And two, she must place her military and civilian orders at shipbuilding enterprises in Ukraine.
    This is so ... as one of the options.
    Of course, I understand that this opinion is absolutely not worked out, but the direction of cooperation should be like that. And what is happening now is spitting each other and they will not lead to good.
    IMHO.
    1. Nevsky
      Nevsky April 17 2013 12: 00 New
      +3
      Skavron

      Plus, the case said. good
      1. Skavron
        Skavron April 17 2013 12: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: Nevsky
        Plus, the case said.

        Yes, not at all.
        I am always for partnership between our countries.
    2. avt
      avt April 17 2013 13: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Skavron
      Of course, I understand that this opinion is absolutely not worked out, but the direction of cooperation should be like that.

      This opinion works precisely in terms of seeking cooperation within the framework of at least the CSTO in protecting, if not the common market, then at least a single customs space or something similar to bilateral, but here Sevastopol got into a political exchange with the Fleet. And this is a completely different story, what kind of cooperation is it? request There are only small and large dirty tricks to each other, depending on the capabilities. The situation will continue to be held hostage to political ambitions, alas, this is an objective reality that we all feel. I don’t see any light, and judging by the bonus that Lukashenko received in the form of a new pipeline and the situation with the aircraft industry, the Russian leadership does not see it either. request
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop April 17 2013 18: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Skavron
      And two, she must place her military and civilian orders at shipbuilding enterprises in Ukraine.
      But these enterprises should be able to produce high-quality repairs of this equipment. And then, after all, they tried to repair the unfortunate submarine "Zaporozhye" wherever they tried. With a result worse than negative. And they managed to do this only at the 13th plant in Sevastopol (which the Russian Federation owns)
      1. Skavron
        Skavron April 17 2013 22: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Misantrop
        Here are just these enterprises

        Yes, only these enterprises need orders, and as a result, money for modernization.
        In order for the enterprise to be modernized or restored, it is not necessary just to pour money into it. It is necessary to create conditions for him in which the money will come into it.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop April 17 2013 23: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Skavron
          It is necessary to create conditions for him in which the money will come into it.

          I agree completely. And also because the poured money will pour into the owner’s pocket, and not at all in production and personnel. But customs slingshots of these conditions will not help in any way ... This is, if not even counting the eternal squabble of governments. So far, the shipbuilders of Ukraine are almost entirely working at the shipbuilding enterprises of the Russian Federation and China
  • andrejwz
    andrejwz April 17 2013 10: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: porevith
    Or if everything is so bad here, why aren’t you leaving ????

    And if everything is so good in Europe, then the suitcase is under your arm and forth. Well then you persecute others.
    1. Zax
      Zax April 17 2013 10: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: andrejwz
      in Europe everything is so good, then a suitcase under your arm and forth

      This one is right. In the vast b. ssr no prospects people no.
      1. Alex 31
        Alex 31 April 17 2013 12: 41 New
        +1
        Neither change gender, nor pass a parade under the rainbow flag. It's time to blame!

        I wish you all gathered there.
  • dimon-media
    dimon-media April 17 2013 12: 21 New
    +2
    Russia is a generous soul. How many gifts are pouring from our side .. Crimea was presented and now you have to pay for the arrival of your fleet. This is a freebie .. A good gift. three in one. Like coffee bags. A huge territory for free and still rent, and also a tax on goods. And it's all from your own personal .. here do the good.
  • nod739
    nod739 April 17 2013 14: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    What? But Gasprom lacks a lot - Ukraine had the lowest transit tariffs (Belarus no longer has a GTS), but how much does it cost to pay for transit bypass routes (this even does not include the money that was buried during construction)


    project cost less than 2% of the transit volume
    therefore, payback within 2-4 years
    and there is no war to discuss transit rates
    previously discussed, it’s stupid not to agree but to build a new one. Well, right now, what ??? the train left
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 April 17 2013 15: 54 New
    +2
    Ukraine should wake up and come to its senses, NATO, the European Union and others will not help or defend Ukraine if something happens, you need to understand that the only country that Ukraine can turn to for any help including and military - Russia.
  • Algor73
    Algor73 April 17 2013 17: 08 New
    0
    Stormy passions. I read all the comments. Fearfully. God forbid some mess, the Russian brother will not go shoulder to shoulder with the Ukrainian to defend himself. It really hurts a lot of hatred. And for what? Because the Russian government wants by all means (and not always correct) to win their interests? And Ukraine is your own? That this is just a bidding - we are concessions on the Black Sea Fleet, and you are on An planes, etc. That the same power plunders everything from right to left no matter what, that the opinion of a simple, ordinary Citizen put him in the same point? Because they are cumming (Ukrainian politicians with Russians), behind the scenes of state affairs decide their mercantile? Why such hatred?
  • a jacket
    a jacket April 17 2013 20: 38 New
    0
    Quote: domokl
    Ukraine, in its repertoire, doesn’t even want to comment ...

    Yeah ... Begging - that’s all that Ukraine will soon have to do. All pissed off. To Europe - on the run!
    True, their happiness will soon begin:
  • a jacket
    a jacket April 17 2013 20: 42 New
    +1
    And what will happen if you put the instrument on all the prohibitions on updating the fleet and bring something new to Sevastopol as a test ball, and then say "It happened" ...