Military Review

More than bankruptcy

32
Wheel chassis for Russian nuclear forces are produced abroad


The Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant (MZKT) supplies the eight-axle special wheel chassis (SKS) for the Strategic Rocket Forces of the RF Armed Forces of the Russian Federation MZKT-79221. Since 4 November 2005, they have been mass-produced for Topol-M and Yars mobile ground-based missile systems (PGRK), which today and for the medium term constitute the core of the ground-based SNF.

The fleet of military vehicles of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation has a special type of vehicles - special wheeled chassis and wheeled tractors (SKShT). The need for their development was caused by the development of large-sized mobile weapons and military equipment (IWT), primarily missile systems for the current SV, Strategic Missile Forces, IWRC. The creation of SKSHT in the USSR began in the middle of the 50-s. In the future, Soviet designers firmly held the leading position. In the Soviet Union, four specialized teams existed simultaneously: the Special Design Bureau (SKB) of the Likhachev Plant in Moscow, SKB-1 and special production of the Minsk Automobile Plant (MAZ), Kurgan Wheel Tractor Plant (KZKT) and Bryansk Automobile Plant (BAZ). They mainly met the needs of the Armed Forces.

In the first half of 80-ies, the task was to increase the production of chassis for missile systems, so the creation of a BAZ backup in the city of Orsk, Orenburg region, began in full swing. The research work in the field of SKSHT was carried out at the Research Automotive and Automotive Institute (NAMI) and 21-m Research and Testing Institute (NIII) of the USSR Ministry of Defense. With the beginning of perestroika, many projects that have already begun have been curtailed.

Chassis for "Topol"

Veterans of the rocket forces and industry sometimes talk about the Topol PGRK, episodes unknown to the general public. One of them concerns the middle of 60's - 70's. At that time, they were actively engaged in the creation of new mobile complexes with intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). A number of historians have noted that a kind of confrontation between the two schools - KZKT and MAZ SKB-1 has taken shape. Both teams offered their designs to the military, but in the end the Minsk group won, which was not unexpected.

Objectively, the design team in Minsk was more experienced and stronger. It is impossible to document the veterans' stories, as some of the information is contained in restricted documents, many of which could have been destroyed. However, if the development and production of special-purpose semi-axle wheeled chassis were then transferred to Kurgan at 70's, at the initial stage of development, Topol PGRK could be avoided in Russia today.

So, already in 1976, the first prototype of the SKS MAZ-7912 with the wheel formula 14x12 was manufactured in Minsk. The prototype was tested and in 1977-m model was put on mass production. The fact that in a short time we managed to create a new chassis was not accidental: SKB-1 MAZ had experience in the development and production of five- and six-axle SKSH MAZ-547, MAZ-547А, MAZ-547Б, MAZ-547В for launchers and transport transshipment units PGRK “Temp-2С”, “Pioneer”, “Pioneer-UTTH”. The first complex was removed from combat duty and quickly eliminated in 1985 – 1986. The official version is that the USSR fulfilled international obligations under the SALT-2 Treaty of 1979. In fact, the treaty did not enter into force due to the US refusal to ratify. The latter were destroyed by the Treaty between the USSR and the USA on the elimination of medium and shorter-range missiles.

During the operation of the MAZ-7912 chassis, shortcomings were revealed, which were eliminated in the next model SKS - MAZ-7917 (wheel formula 14x12), the first sample was made in the 1984 year, and the next one was launched into the series.

PGRK "Topol" put on combat duty in several stages. 23 July 1985 of the year - in Yoshkar-Ola rocket compound with a stationary command post. 28 April 1987 - in Tagil missile compound with a mobile command center (PKP) "Barrier". 27 May 1988 - in the Irkutsk missile compound with the advanced control panel "Granit". December 30 1988 of the year - in Teykovsky missile compound with an automated command and control system of the new generation. "Topol" and today forms the basis of the mobile grouping of the Strategic Missile Forces. He is the most massive PGRK. The maximum number of missiles on alert was 369. According to other data, the Topol PGRK grouping reached a maximum in the 1997 year, when 386 autonomous launchers were deployed.

Instead of tank motors

9 February 1987 of the year was issued Resolution of the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 173-45, on the basis of which the creation of the Albatross combat missile system began. Mine and mobile (ground and railway) variants with a single universal rocket were envisaged. However, due to the inability to meet the basic requirements for all variants of basing and had to meet the specified deadlines, the work had to be adjusted.

More than bankruptcy

9 September 1989 of the year issued a decision of the State Commission of the USSR Council of Ministers on military-industrial issues (MIC USSR CM) No. 323 on the start of the development of new complexes - mine and ground. The Moscow Institute of Heating Engineering again became the lead developer of the PGRK, as well as the Temp-2С and Topol complexes. The title of the topic is “Universal”. The development of the stationary mine complex was entrusted to Yuzhnoye Design Bureau from Dnepropetrovsk. Both complexes were supposed to be equipped with a universal rocket.

For the installation of the APS of the advanced PGRK, the existing seven-axle all-wheel-drive chassis of the MAZ-7917 did not suit the customer’s requirements. In the SKB-1 of MAZ, work on the new chassis began in the fourth quarter of 1986 as part of the “squeeze” theme of the future development plan for the 1986 – 1990 years. Designing new SKSH went in two directions - the chassis MAZ-7922 and MAZ-7923. A prototype of the first chassis with a wheel formula 16x16 produced 15 June 1990-th. A diesel engine of automobile type YMZ-8401.10-04 with horsepower 650 power was applied. In the USSR, 1960 – 1980 lacked powerful automotive-type engines, so tank engines were installed on the SKSHT. They were equipped with serial chassis and tractors manufactured by MAZ and KZKT, as well as a number of BAZ models. The use of tank engines dramatically reduced the life of power units and led to a large increase in fuel and lubricant consumption. In connection with the inclusion of tank power plants in the restrictive list and the lack of engines of the required power level in the same years, the four-axle armored personnel carriers of the Gorky Automobile Plant and the SKShT of the Bryansk Automobile Plant were forced to install two engines. This scheme had serious drawbacks.

In December, the 1989 of the MoD opened the Astrolog OCR, under which it was supposed to create an MAZ-7930 chassis with a tonnage of 22 and a tractor to replace the outdated SKSHT of the MAZ-543 and Oplot families. The MAZ-543А and MAZ-543М chassis were used, for example, as part of control panels, combat duty support machines, mobile diesel power stations, for the installation of other technical equipment included in the Topol PGRK. A prototype model of the new MAZ-79301 chassis with the wheel formula 8x8 was made in the 1991 year.

By the decision of the military industrial complex under the USSR CM from 29 December 1990, MAZ was entrusted with the creation, testing and putting into production of the SKS MAZ-79221 with the wheel formula 16x16. Veterans of the automotive service is called the chassis "Universal".

7 February 1991 was established by order of the general director of the BelavtoMAZ Production Association Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant. In the same year, a prototype of the MAZ-7923 chassis appeared with the wheel formula 16x16, the GTD-1250A gas turbine engine with 1250 horsepower and electric motor-wheels. The overall dimensions were similar to those of the MAZ-7922 chassis.

At the same time, the Yaroslavl Motor Plant (YAMZ) was developing a family of automotive-type engines (YMZ-847 with 800 hp for 16x16 chassis and YMZ-846 with 500 hp for 8X8 chassis and tractors 1991X847), which were equipped with 846 engine for XNUMX XNUMX and YMZ-XNUMX engines. tank engines. In XNUMX, the production of the first prototypes, YMZ-XNUMX and YMZ-XNUMX, began in Yaroslavl.

Work on the creation of powerful automotive-type engines was crowned with success. However, part of the problems was not completely solved, therefore not all “military” engine systems are now introduced into mass production.

Fully Russian

At the end of 1991, the former Byelorussian SSR became an independent state - the Republic of Belarus (RB). Prior to this, 27 July 1990 was adopted by the Declaration of State Sovereignty, 19 September 1991-th BSSR was renamed. In fact, in the midst of promising OCD, funding for work was suspended. The topic "squeezing" was closed. Chassis MAZ-7923 did not even have time to experience.


The first president of the Republic of Belarus, Stanislav Shushkevich, demanded payment for all SKSHT MAZ in a freely convertible currency. First of all, Volgograd TsKB Titan (the developer of ground-based equipment of missile systems) and PO Barricades (the manufacturer of the equipment) suffered. The cooperation ties of enterprises were broken. The head of the Main Automobile Directorate (GLAVTU) of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Colonel General Nikolai Zazulin and his subordinates had to solve a task that the military had never done: buy out the Minsk chassis and transfer them to the factories. The corresponding order of the government of the Russian Federation was adopted on February 15 1993 of the year. On its basis, a direct contract was concluded between GLAVTU and MZKT. Today it is fashionable to blame the generals for doing business. But in that situation it was not a question of such earnings. If emergency measures had not been taken, Russia could have lost an entire class of weapons and military equipment, which is critically important for domestic strategic nuclear forces.

In March, 1992 was decided to develop a new, fully Russian ICBM. Prospective missile system received the cipher "Topol-M". In April, by decision of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the CIS and the Ministry of Industry of Russia, the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau was freed from the functions of the lead developer of a universal rocket. The decree of the President of the Russian Federation from 27 February 1993 of the year gave an official start to the development of a new complex.

It was necessary to determine where in Russia to make SKSh for PGRK. Today, practically in all publications of the Belarusian press about the reasons for the failed transfer of production of the chassis to Kurgan (on KZKT) indicates the low level of qualification of Russian designers. In fact, it is not. The reasons were completely different, and few people remember them today.

By that time, at the enterprises of the Russian Federation, including the defense ones, there were elections of leaders. Not everywhere new directors were competent organizers of production. Often the victory was won by those who could only speak beautifully at rallies and meetings, or led an undercover struggle. This significantly weakened the staff of the defense industry. Nine defense ministries also ceased to exist. The management of defense enterprises was violated, the leaders of many defense factories were at a loss as they were accustomed to working on orders from above, and no one gave any commands.

According to privatization plans

The military specialists of GlavTU, GBTU, GRAU, and other ordering departments of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, who were trained and were able to act in critical situations, did a great job of saving the profile industry. Naturally, the first thing the representatives of GLAVT visited KZKT, which was created as an understudy of the special production of MAZ. This plant also previously mass-produced products for special purposes - GAZ-49B (armored personnel carrier BTR-60P and its modifications). At the end of 80-s in Kurgan, a fourth-generation SKShT family was developed, in the design of which engines of the YMZ-840 automobile type and hydromechanical transmissions were used. But the management of the plant has already had personnel changes that negatively affected the enterprise as a whole.

Nevertheless, the first talk of the officers of the Main Directorate was reassured - the plant’s management was ready to consider putting the production gear for the PGRK, and in general, the CPCC left a favorable impression on the military specialists. The company worked, moreover - in Kurgan, at the end of 80-s, a newly constructed building was prepared for launch for the production of armored wheeled vehicles (BTR-80 armored personnel carriers). In the first half of 90's, this mechanized production with the new equipment installed, although partially disassembled, could still be reanimated.

Experienced engineers and skilled workers, a fairly strong design bureau, remained at the plant. It was possible to prepare graduates of the local polytechnic institute for work at the plant and in the design bureau, in time to transfer the experience to the new generation of engineers and designers. In other words, it would not have required huge financial investments in order to transfer the production of semi-axial SKSh from Minsk to Kurgan. There were also all the possibilities for completing the ROC started in Minsk on the chassis for the Topol-M PGRK. It was decided to prepare a draft government decree on the establishment in Kurgan of production of SKSh for PGRK. While the military was preparing a draft resolution and coordinated it with all interested departments, departments and organizations in accordance with the privatization plan approved by the resolution of the Kurgan Regional State Property Management Committee No. 86 of February 12 of 1993, the state enterprise KZKT was transformed into Rusich OJSC - Kurgan Plant of wheeled tractors named after DM Karbyshev (abbreviated name “Rusich” - KZKT).

The first call

Further developments have become like a spy detective. New owners have changed the strategic direction of the enterprise. At about that time, a representative of a foreign company appeared in Kurgan and offered the management of the plant a profitable business. All foreigners produced by KZKT chassis and tractors were supposed to buy supposedly for certain projects in the oil and gas sector. Perhaps that is why the KZKT have already begun to prepare equipment for the national economy.

When the military from Moscow came to Kurgan again and brought the documents on the chassis for the PGRK for final approval, the meeting on the part of the plant managers was more than cool. Representatives of the head office were informed that work on the subject of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation was unprofitable, since all production facilities would be loaded with orders from oilmen.

30 November 1993 of the year Zazulin in his report “On the main directions of development of military motor vehicles up to 2000 of the year and for the future” at the Military Council of the Ground Forces mentioned the CCWT with the following words: “In order to develop the Kurgan plant, it will take more than a decade and huge investments”.

The result of the ill-considered actions of the leadership of the CCWT was not slow. A small order for the chassis and tractors from the Russian Defense Ministry dropped to a minimum (mainly deliveries of spare parts for the equipment available to the troops), a huge amount of unsold goods for civilian customers accumulated on the territory of KZKT, and the foreigner who had promised large orders suddenly disappeared.

At the beginning of the 90-x in the oil and gas industries there has been a decline, the majority of Russian oil companies have worked intermittently: oil production fell, reserves declined. In 1994, production at KZKT stood idle for several months due to the lack of orders. To develop complex fields, oilmen needed new equipment, but they needed money to acquire it. Loans were found abroad, but these were the so-called linked loans, which prompted the oil industry to acquire foreign-made equipment. According to a number of specialists, imported chassis supplied with equipment in Russian conditions proved not to be from the best side. And the management of the plant for the payment of salaries had to take loans at high interest rates and pay for these idle times with these funds. In 1995, KZKT was no longer able to return the loans taken, external management was introduced at the plant, management was changed at the enterprise.

Collapse of KZKT

By the end of 90, the situation on the CCWT began to improve, relations with the military were restored. 23 December 1999 of the year contract No. 545 was concluded with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (including 93603) “Development and substantiation of directions for the creation of a promising family of special wheeled chassis and tractors for the needs of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation”, the Pipupar code. This work was carried out in conjunction with the 21-m NIII MO RF. Funding came at the expense of the federal budget. The directions for creating a promising SKShT family at Rusich OJSC - KZKT were developed and substantiated. In the development of the Polupar R & D, the layout studies of the new tractor with the 8x8 wheel formula and the car-type 850 engine of horsepower were carried out. New equipment was developed for the national economy, production began to grow: 1999 units of manufactured equipment were shipped in 135, 188 units were shipped in the next year, 2001, including 205 units of four-axle tractors of various modifications, in 108.

The prospects for a seemingly revived enterprise immediately attracted the attention of financial speculators. A continuous change of shareholders, the redistribution of shareholdings, the struggle of various groups for influence over the plant began. Some firms that became shareholders of the plant had an incomprehensible historysince they were founded recently. Among them were foreign companies. In particular, Bishopsgate UK Investment Limited, which owned the 21,5 percentage of the shares of KZKT, is registered in the UK. The result is sad: although the rise in the oil industry began in 1998, and in 2002 there was a turning point for the better in the gas industry of Russia, the share of KZKT products on the market began to decline sharply from 2002, production volumes dropped significantly.

The plant gradually began to get into debt again, arrears appeared. The main activity of the plant was not particularly interesting for the shareholders, therefore no active measures were taken to develop and put into production a new SKShT family. According to open sources, the company's policy in the field of scientific and technological development in the first quarter of 2005, was reduced to the creation of modifications (refinement for a specific consumer) of previously designed machines. New research and development has ceased.

In the period of relatively rapid economic development of the domestic economy - in 2005 – 2007, KZKT could not find markets for its products, the series did not go down into a series of chassis and tractor units, and it was impossible to implement outdated equipment in quantities more than 60 and chassis trucks per year. what the factory marketers knew well.

But even the minimum required by the market quantity on KZKT was no longer produced, moreover - production was sharply reduced. So, in 2003, the 32 chassis and tractor were manufactured, in 2004, the entire 26 chassis and tractors were manufactured. Having been deprived of orders from oilmen, who continued to be the only consumers of the plant’s products, and not finding customers in other sectors of the economy, KZKT found itself in a difficult situation that numerous reorganizations could not fix.

The definition of the Arbitration Court of the Kurgan Region from 7 in October 2005 of the year in the case of А34-1399 / 2005 is an enterprise declared insolvent (bankrupt). The sale of property and real estate began, including for offices of small commercial structures and objects of trade. Today OJSC Rusich - KZKT is no longer among the existing enterprises, the plant is officially liquidated.

Several years ago, the Main Automobile and Tank Directorate of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation already realized that KZKT was unable to fulfill the state defense order. If all conceived by military specialists began to do two decades ago, now our country would have its own production of eight-axle chassis for APU PGRK Topol-M and Yars, and the plant in Kurgan would continue to exist and develop. For military tracked vehicles, it was possible to carry out similar work on the transfer of production from the Minsk Tractor Plant to the territory of Russia in the 90-s - a domestic enterprise received orders.

The supply of chassis for modern strategic armament complexes still depends on the political situation between the allied states. MZKT, which produces chassis for Russia's strategic nuclear forces, is today a foreign enterprise. KamAZ in 2008 began developing similar chassis without any experience. The Bryansk Automobile Plant, which 55 was created years ago to launch a missile landing gear, may be left without orders. What happens if KamAZ fails, and the BAZ is redeployed?
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  1. treskoed
    treskoed April 10 2013 08: 20 New
    +5
    The Ministry of Defense must turn to its manufacturer, to get away from the purchase of equipment abroad. To make defense orders profitable for enterprises is still cheaper than buying abroad, not to mention strategic superiority.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 April 10 2013 09: 02 New
      16
      Belarus in your abroad? It infuriates me when half of the components of the military-industrial complex of Russia are received from Belarus, however, attempts are constantly being made to put our partners on the bandwagon and bite more painfully. What kind of politics is so brainless.
      1. alex-defensor
        alex-defensor April 10 2013 13: 25 New
        10
        Quote: vladsolo56
        Belarus in your abroad? It infuriates me when half of the components of the military-industrial complex of Russia are received from Belarus, however, attempts are constantly being made to put our partners on the bandwagon and bite more painfully. What kind of politics is so brainless.


        I absolutely support that deep integration of the two countries is needed, not delimitation. Moreover, Batkin's methods made it possible to keep the national economy intact. In Belarus, OUR POWER, our largest "partisan detachment" in the heart of Europe.
    2. evgenii67
      evgenii67 April 10 2013 09: 54 New
      13
      Hello everyone!
      Quote: treskoed
      The Ministry of Defense must turn to its manufacturer, to get away from the purchase of equipment abroad. To make defense orders profitable for enterprises is still cheaper than buying abroad, not to mention strategic superiority.
      Belarus is abroad! hi I live in Smolensk, the Smolensk region borders on Belarus and you can get there without problems, how many people I see from the fraternal republic, normal people. Politics, fucking politics, which BAZ, which KAMAZ? Belarusians have tremendous experience in creating tractors. You can imagine how much time, money will be spent (stolen) to create a deliberately worse tractor. With all due respect to KamAZ, forgive me people from Naberezhnaya Chelny, but it won’t work out better, there will be years of testing, elimination of defects (which cannot be completely eliminated), for the sake of which Belarus is abroad! In that case, our ass officials!
      1. itkul
        itkul April 10 2013 13: 08 New
        0
        Quote: evgenii67
        Belarus is abroad! hi I live in Smolensk, the Smolensk region borders on Belarus and you can get there without problems, how many people I see from the fraternal republic, normal people.


        So what, and I live in Murmansk and I can also travel to Finland and Norway without problems, and there are normal people too. And now, to build a plant there and buy weapons from them, it’s silly, you don’t. , new developments should be carried out with us, it was still not enough that the Belarusians would quietly sell to the Chinese what we are developing
        1. evgenii67
          evgenii67 April 10 2013 14: 56 New
          +3
          Hello, come! For example, I can imagine that Russia and Belarus can unite, but with the Finns or Norway, fairy tales!
          Quote: itkul
          I live in Murmansk and I can also travel to Finland and Norway without problems, and there are normal people there too.

          here you have an analogy, to compare Brotherly Belarus with Finland, and even more so with Norway.
          Quote: itkul
          And now, to build a factory there and buy weapons from them, it’s silly, don’t find

          no, I don’t find it, because it’s all about something else, and to build in Belarus that they’ve gathered belay everything has been worked out there for a long time, adjusted and produced without serious jambs, and now how many jambs will KamAZ have when creating a tractor if up to 10 defects are detected in ordinary trucks that are mass-produced. Have you asked such a question?
          Quote: itkul
          there wasn’t enough yet that Belarusians would quietly sell to the Chinese what we are developing

          Now, if we do this to Belarus (allegedly develop their production, pinching Belarusian), then perhaps they will look for new "partners".
          1. itkul
            itkul April 10 2013 15: 42 New
            0
            Quote: evgenii67
            how many jambs will KamAZ have when creating a tractor, if up to 10 defects are detected in ordinary trucks that are mass-produced. Have you asked such a question?


            Well, you should understand that as many trucks as KAMAZ produces, no one needs to do it, and what you want to do with people at the enterprise. I think it’s necessary to decide what is more important for us, to employ our citizens, or to feed the crowd of parasites as in the USSR. I think you don’t need to remind you that they lived worse in the RSFSR under the union. And why don’t you think about the Bryansk plant, they also make chassis there. Yes, and we must remember that Belarus has been an independent state for 22 years, the same as Finland and Norway
            1. evgenii67
              evgenii67 April 10 2013 16: 15 New
              +1
              Quote: itkul
              Well, you should understand that no one needs as many trucks as KAMAZ produces.

              so let's close the factory (just kidding). It feels like we're talking about different things. Let's start in order: MAZ (Belarus) produces heavy tractors for the TOPOL missile systems, and this has been worked out for a long time and there is no need to worry about quality .... so why take this bread from Belarusians. BAZ (Russia) produces equipment and tractors, including for the transportation of bulky, heavy cargo-tank for example .... let them continue to do this. KamAZ (Russia) - this company has its own niche, both in the civilian and military sectors, and no one is going to take this niche from KAMAZ, even if they continue to do their own thing. Why am I doing all this, and besides let the factories do what they do best, and do not try to kill MAZ at the expense of KAMAZ and BASE (I mean the release of tractors for poplars). This is roughly the same if AvtoVAZ decided to create its own truck and create competition for KAMAZ. Or a more striking example, the company Sukhoi, which specializes in creating some of the best combat aircraft, decided to create a civilian (Superjet) wassat
              1. itkul
                itkul April 10 2013 16: 57 New
                0
                Quote: evgenii67
                KamAZ (Russia) - this company has its own niche in both the civilian and military sectors, and no one is going to take this niche from KAMAZ


                There, it seems like the reduction is going on in KAMAZ, the warehouses are full, and it was not without reason that they were given assembly time and time to occupy the people. I fully understand your arguments, but I still think that everything needs to be done at home to ensure the employment of the population, and not depend on foreign suppliers, whether it be chassis, helicopter engines, gas turbine engines and much more.
                1. evgenii67
                  evgenii67 April 10 2013 17: 16 New
                  +1
                  Quote: itkul
                  There, it seems like a reduction is taking place in Kamaz, the warehouses are full, and it was not without reason that they were given assembly of willows to occupy the people.

                  If this is true, the conclusion is: either someone needs it, or KAMAZ can no longer withstand competition and only supplies for the army remain. That's just a question for you, if KAMAZ does not withstand competition in the civilian sector, why did you get the idea that they will be able to produce a tractor for Poplar, which will be no worse than MAZovsky, it’s utopia, unless of course all the power to assemble tractors is transferred from Belarus to Russia, and also that the whole technological process, experience ..... was transferred, in general it is utopia. And yes, stop calling Belarus abroad. You are embarrassed that not all of the armaments of Russia are produced in Russia soldier name me at least one more or less combat-ready army whose weapons are only of domestic production hi and again: Belarus is not abroad. Many of you and your acquaintances have relatives in Finland, Norway ......, for a reason Belarus is called fraternal.
                  1. itkul
                    itkul April 10 2013 20: 49 New
                    -3
                    Quote: evgenii67
                    Many of you and your acquaintances have relatives in Finland, Norway ......, for a reason Belarus is called fraternal.


                    All my relatives live in Rossii.A such question, as I understand the "brotherhood of Belarus" is that there are many relatives living there Rossiyan.A for example Israel, like our Jews have many relatives there, is it like fraternal, or not. Why, then, "brotherly" Israel shouldn't help its brother with drones. Or is it just us Russians that can be bred to the word brother
                    1. evgenii67
                      evgenii67 April 11 2013 09: 53 New
                      0
                      you again for yours, I already wrote
                      Quote: itkul
                      It feels like we're talking about different things.
                      You again on the shelves to lay out as it was already
                      Quote: itkul
                      Let's start in order:

                      only now not about the plants. Belarus is fraternal because we are essentially one people, that for a long time we were one state, and yes, many relatives drinks Stop talk about this.
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 10 2013 14: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: evgenii67
        Politics, fucking politics,

        That's it, Zhenya. Policy ......
        In Belarus, there is a certain variant of socialism, we have market-oligarchic capitalism. The systems of each other are mutually exclusive, hence the friction and disagreement.
    3. Petergut
      Petergut April 10 2013 11: 52 New
      +2
      ... abroad ...

      ... Abroad ...

      Thanks druh.
      1. zanoza
        zanoza April 10 2013 12: 10 New
        +1
        Here is an interesting info about the MZKT: http://www.cartruckbus.ru/270-volat-raskryvaet-sekrety.html
  2. AK-47
    AK-47 April 10 2013 08: 24 New
    +3
    What will happen if KamAZ fails, and the BAZ is redesigned?

    It is hoped that common sense will triumph.
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 10 2013 08: 53 New
      +7
      Quote: AK-47
      What will happen if KamAZ fails, and the BAZ is redesigned?

      This cannot be allowed. To God of God, and to Caesar Caesarean. Let everyone do what is best for him. And Belarusians did well, not only saved the plant, but also produced such equipment which has no analogues. There are two factories in the world producing this class of tractor. Now they are releasing new 4 + 4 cars. I saw this car. Super. So do not provocation. Belarus is not abroad drinks
  3. fenix57
    fenix57 April 10 2013 08: 25 New
    +1
    Yes-ah-but for a long time we will have to "grind our teeth" at the mention of the 90s and the events in the Belovezhskiy conspiracy on 8.12.1991 ... recourse
  4. Mikhail Topor
    Mikhail Topor April 10 2013 08: 25 New
    +7
    Who really considers Belarus abroad? winked
    1. treskoed
      treskoed April 10 2013 08: 43 New
      +2
      General people!
  5. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 April 10 2013 08: 59 New
    +2
    One thing is not clear, since when Belarus is a foreigner? yes there are so many joint ventures and so many are tied to its defense industry. To arrange competition for Belarusians is a clear diversion.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 10 2013 09: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: vladsolo56
      One thing is not clear, since when Belarus is a foreigner? yes there are so many joint ventures and so many are tied to its defense industry. To arrange competition for Belarusians is a clear diversion.



      Diversion, not sabotage. But you must admit that the experience of recent years suggests that ALL especially important production must be within Russia.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 April 10 2013 10: 03 New
        +3
        Is it that we have the most expensive joint projects, for example, with India, or are the Indians closer to us Belarusians?
  6. White
    White April 10 2013 09: 01 New
    +2
    I also understand why Russia is shaking Ukraine, but for what Belarusians?
  7. stranik72
    stranik72 April 10 2013 09: 04 New
    +3
    The situation is standard, and what is happening with the Kazan plant for the production of engines for the TU-160, technology is lost, production barely breathes, but these are not isolated cases, there are such enterprises in all regions of Russia. A well-planned action to destroy high-tech production is still valid, an example of Russian Helicopters is quietly. for signage our helicopters are the best, they ruin the Milevskoye Design Bureau, and then what?
  8. domokl
    domokl April 10 2013 09: 04 New
    +1
    What is sad about the lost now ... Nobody will revive the plant, it’s easier to build a new one ... But dependency, and it’s not good to be completely dependent on anyone in the matter of defense capability ... We need to build, we need to have at least a MAZ branch in Russia
  9. engineer74
    engineer74 April 10 2013 09: 06 New
    +3
    "The prospects of a seemingly revived enterprise immediately attracted the attention of financial speculators. A continuous change of shareholders, a redistribution of shareholdings, a struggle between various groups for influence over the plant began."
    "Effective private owners" are marauders, if in Russian ... am
    This privatization according to Chubais, we will not come around for more than one generation ... sad
  10. artist-mamluk
    artist-mamluk April 10 2013 10: 40 New
    +2
    You look at the historical events of the past and think the truth, all breakthrough technologies, in science, in technology, and simply in human minds, are somehow connected with the war. War, oddly enough, has always been a kind of impetus at all times. It’s really impossible to divide everything properly and rightly before all of us are childish. I can’t understand the damn thing.
  11. Petergut
    Petergut April 10 2013 11: 51 New
    0
    Quote: treskoed
    ... abroad ...

    Quote: treskoed
    ... Abroad ...

    Thanks druh.
  12. Tartary
    Tartary April 10 2013 12: 48 New
    +3
    Do not touch the balarus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Quote: Petergut
    Thanks druh.

    Great things await us ............... Alya hto delays?
    1. botur
      botur April 10 2013 17: 05 New
      0
      Thank you for your support !!!!!!
  13. MASTER (MPS)
    MASTER (MPS) April 10 2013 16: 24 New
    +2
    The ubiquitous MZKT

    The words that the defense power of Russia largely depends on the Belarusian MZKT are not an exaggeration. Today, the vast majority of Russian missiles and air defense systems travel on Minsk chassis. MZKT produces wheeled platforms for Iskander, Topol-M and Yars missile systems, Hurricane, Smerch, Grad, Tornado multiple launch rocket systems, Osa1T, Buk2M air defense systems , "TorM2", C300 and C400 "Triumph", anti-ship coastal missile systems "Bastion", "Bal-E", "ClubM", radar stations, bridge spacers. And many other examples of land mobile weapons and military equipment.

    The flagship of the lineup of the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant is the MZKT-79221 chassis (16x16 wheel arrangement). It was developed for the launchers and transport vehicles of the Russian mobile strategic ground missile systems Topol-M and Yars, their transportation in all types of terrain and combat use. Today Yars is the most modern complex, armed with the Strategic Missile Forces of Russia; it is equipped with RS-24 intercontinental missiles.

    The weight of each such rocket is almost 50 tons. Russia simply does not have its own equipment that could carry nuclear missiles of such mass over rough terrain, and even ensure their launch from anywhere in the country.

    Expert Commentary

    - It’s even hard for me to say what the initiative of the Ministry of Industry and Science of Russia to revive the Bryansk Automobile Plant actually was. There are not stupid people, they understood that it would cost a lot of money, and without any guarantee of result. Most likely, it was a way to blackmail Minsk - they say either sell us the MZKT or we will bankrupt it, depriving them of military orders, ”said Vladimir Garanin, a teacher and expert at the Higher School of Economics” (Moscow). - Please note: in recent days there has been a lot of talk about the sale of the MZKT to Russia, but so far there is no information about the legal form of the transaction.

    According to the expert, it is unlikely that Russian enterprises will redeem a block of shares in MZKT for "real" money - they even lack working capital. And the government of the Russian Federation has not included such expenses in the 2013 budget. Of course, a stock exchange is possible. But Minsk is not interested, he needs money. It remains a secret and the amount of the transaction.

    “Only one thing is clear: Belarus will receive huge preferences from Russia for the MZKT,” says Garanin. - And this is not only cheap oil and gas. The announced construction of the Yamal-Europe-2 gas pipeline is several billion direct investments in the Belarusian economy, plus further gas transit fees.
  14. Pushkin
    Pushkin April 10 2013 22: 03 New
    +1
    About three weeks ago, news came out - Belarusian defense industry enterprises are participating in the State Defense Order on an equal footing with Russian ones. With all the talk "one people, non-border ..." this is a real official confirmation. And as they say here in Belarus - Hai will die of the one who does not love us yes