Military Review

Eurasian political science: why Uzbekistan is not integrating into the Union and is doomed to an explosion

104
Eurasian political science: why Uzbekistan is not integrating into the Union and is doomed to an explosionThe Central Asian part of Eurasia is divided into two groups of states: those about which we know little, because we are little interested, and those about which we know little, because the local authorities are clearly not interested in unnecessary viewers and listeners. The latter, of course, are Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. And if the territory seems to be able to maintain autarkic stability on the Ashgabat territory, then the closeness of Uzbekistan can play a cruel joke on 30 by millions of citizens after the death or resignation of Islam Karimov.


As it was possible to establish in the first part of the article, a society built in Uzbekistan is a powder keg, which sooner or later will explode. Moreover, we observed the first explosions since the inception of Independent Uzbekistan. If someone forgot, the first massacre in the USSR was in the Fergana Valley in 1989 year. And then, on the gasp of the union, the Uzbeks slaughtered the Turks. That is, the matter is not in relation to the “Russian invaders” - the Turks slaughtered their own kind.

I will not list the conflicts around the Fergana Valley - if anyone is interested, you can refresh the memory of the Andijan events-2005 and other ethnonational conflicts in Central Asia.

But each of these events is only an illustration of the explosiveness of Uzbekistan and its neighboring countries, and not the cause. The reasons lie in the very foundation of the state of “Independent Uzbekistan”.

Integration doom

Uzbekistan is doomed to an explosion not so much by national and military, as by the political laws of Eurasia. But they can only be understood in the logic of Eurasian integration - when you consider the post-Soviet countries not as states in the classical sense. The post-Soviet countries are various-sized state entities based on fragments of a degraded single state. And each degrading national fragment was given a territory with infrastructure, broken production circuits and mineral resources. But, in addition to the economic bonuses, the national elites, who still cannot master the remnants of the single economy, also inherited the population. Which at the very least you have to feed and feed.

Someone uses mineral resources and supports the police apparatus, someone modernizes the army; someone saved the real economy and conquered new markets along the lines of Venezuela; somewhere they are trying to build a "family state". Each national elite was looking for their own recipe. But if we talk about the essence of the twentieth anniversary of 1991-2011, then the preservation of a capable state was a central indicator of the success of a national fragment. Able to provide not only reproduction, but also development. Somewhere coped with this better, as in Belarus, somewhere very bad, as in Georgia and Tajikistan, somewhere very strange, as in Turkmenistan and Moldova.

All very differently, but the Eurasian states at this point differ only in the level of state capacity. And only those republics where the state in its true sense is preserved are capable of integration. For it is impossible to integrate, for example, Ukraine into the Customs Union until the political crisis stops there. And the national elites seem to draw inspiration and property from the crisis. Consequently, the integration of Ukraine into the Union is possible only when the crisis enters the peak phase, as a result of which Ukraine will move from the category of “undersubjects” into a pure object of integration. It's not about love or dislike for Square. The point is in the objective political laws of Eurasia and the quality of the national elite.

According to the same objective laws, today Uzbekistan is the most non-integrated state. Which is a priori simply incapable of integrating into either the Customs Union or the Eurasian. For example, in Uzbekistan, exit visas are preserved, and the Customs Union is primarily a free movement of goods, people and capital as a basic level of integration. How can I take Uzbekistan to the CU? The answer is obvious. If you wish, you can find hundreds of evidence of the non-integrability of Uzbekistan, but they will all be rooted in some signs of degradation.

Therefore, Uzbekistan is not integrable. At this historical moment.

Chaos import

Interestingly, for all 20 years of national development, Uzbekistan has implemented a single integration project. This project was the establishment of a rail link with Afghanistan. In fact, we are dealing with a unique case in which a more capable state voluntarily integrates with the point of chaos and disorganization. While the rest of the neighbors close the border with Afghanistan as much as possible until at least some semblance of the state is established there - in Tashkent they decide to actually integrate Afghanistan into themselves. Because after the withdrawal of US troops and allies from the region, natural chaos will be imported into the territory of Uzbekistan. And if the Soviet Union managed to shift the export of chaos towards Pakistan, then over the 20 years the situation has changed dramatically. Now, the export of chaos will begin in the direction of Tashkent, Samarkand and Bukhara. Moreover, the transport infrastructure is ready.

Therefore, the salvation of Uzbekistan lies beyond its borders. If, after the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, no one will control its territory, Uzbekistan will inevitably begin to integrate the chaos in the form of Islamists, the expansion of drug trafficking, and so on.

The only chance to save Uzbekistan is to control the border areas of Afghanistan. And the current allies of Tashkent, the United States, are just leaving the region, arming the Uzbek army and obviously leaving weapons in the region, as they have always done. That is, prepare all the conditions for the export of chaos. On top of that, Uzbekistan has somehow left the CSTO and lost its only allies, who would also be interested in controlling the north of Afghanistan.

Therefore, the moment of truth for Uzbekistan will be the 2014-2015 years, when the withdrawal of troops will begin. And it was in 2015 that the Eurasian Union should be created, which from the very first days of its existence will begin to border on the agonizing 30-million national state, actively importing chaos. Consequently, from the very first days of the new Union will face such tests, which up to this did not face either the Russian Federation, or the Republic of Belarus, or the Republic of Kazakhstan.
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  1. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter April 6 2013 10: 56 New
    17
    Therefore, the moment of truth for Uzbekistan will be the 2014-2015 years, when the withdrawal of troops will begin. And it was in the 2015 year that the Eurasian Union should be created, which from the very first days of its existence will begin to border the agonizing 30-millionth nation-state, which is actively importing chaos.

    When an epidemic happens somewhere, what do they do?
    That's right - establish a sanitary cordon !!!
    1. hommer
      hommer April 6 2013 22: 05 New
      13
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      When an epidemic happens somewhere, what do they do? Correctly, they establish a sanitary cordon !!!


      Absolutely correct. hi
      Do you think Kazakhstan has no concern that in the long term neighbors may blaze so that little will not seem to anyone? First of all, problems with refugees and other related headaches will be with us!
      After all, not just neighbors, this is one of the closest for the Kazakhs, along with the Kyrgyz people! Brothers are ours!
      There Kazakhs and Uzbeks, copied from the Kazakhs, there are, according to the most cautious estimates, about one and a half million people!
      About half a million Uzbek Kazakhs (465 thousand - data for 2011) left Uzbekistan, the vast majority moved to Kazakhstan.
      We delimited the border with the Uzbeks (bad, good - another question).
      To integrate, not to integrate into the EurAsEC, all these dilemmas are theoretically good.
      In practice, either the Kazakh-Uzbek border to the castle and Karatsupy with dogs every 50 meters, or together with Russia and Belarus to pursue a coordinated policy to return Uzbekistan to the mainstream of integration, using all methods.
      And do not be shy - ALL methods!
      In the end, Karimov is not forever - working ahead of the curve, lobbying pro-Russian elite circles - but they are there!
      1. Ali Baba
        Ali Baba April 7 2013 13: 37 New
        -3
        Quote: hommer
        In the end, Karimov is not forever - working ahead of the curve, lobbying pro-Russian elite circles - but they are there!

        It is unlikely;) With those who are highly accustomed to communicate with us, and who even more so does not wake up a dialogue ... I generally dry up with laughter when I read the comments: yes, where are you without us, Wed Asia, you are all ... freeloaders drive you all ... the Caucasus, some thieves and wild ones ... Listen, if you want integration, what do you think? I call everyone I want to integrate with so much? One you are good fluffy but you do not like ah ah ah ...
        1. timurpl
          timurpl April 7 2013 16: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: Ali Baba
          do you want integration

          Friend, well, let's argue already logically, who needs someone!
          What did Russia lose with the departure of Uzbekistan? Cinema?!
          -I assure you, Russia only won with your departure and we still don’t have to “encourage” you to be loyal to us ... you know how insulting it is, help, help, and then they tell you that Allah gave it to you!
  2. avt
    avt April 6 2013 16: 05 New
    +8
    ,, And the national elites seem to draw inspiration and property from the crisis. "------- Absolutely correctly noticed! Moreover, with respect to ALL national elites, without exception. good ,, Uzbekistan will inevitably begin to integrate chaos into itself in the form of Islamists, expansion of drug trafficking "------- Simply, Islamization" will take on an uncontrolled and progressively geometric proportion, similar to Afghan, we will get everything now in Afghanistan on the border of Kazakhstan. Well, since Uzbekistan is not Kyrgyzstan in size and population, then there will be an order of magnitude greater headache. ,, Therefore, the salvation of Uzbekistan lies beyond its borders. "------- Not a fact. The experience of Turkmenistan shows that with the consolidation of the national elites around centralized power can provide a stable version of a controlled development of events, not chaotic. Turkmenbashi was strong with his Rukhnama. laughing Not in vain did he study at the higher party school. Yes, and Lukashenko saw it, he realized once he published it at home. laughing
  3. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk April 6 2013 16: 05 New
    +1
    Dependents surrendered to us, let them boil in their independence.
    1. Ali Baba
      Ali Baba April 7 2013 13: 38 New
      -4
      Quote: Krasnoyarets
      Dependents surrendered to us, let them boil in their independence.

      Don’t stick your nose with your integration where you don’t need to ...
  4. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 6 2013 16: 11 New
    +1
    That's what we need them for? What is the use of them?
    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta April 6 2013 17: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Speckled32
      That's what we need them for?

      moreover, they do not border with us. why does Kazakhstan not care, because they border with them?
    2. HAIFISCH
      HAIFISCH April 6 2013 21: 03 New
      +3
      The point is not whether the control of the territory is necessary or not necessary, because there is no control, there is no order, and they themselves cannot provide order or do not want to.
    3. Su24
      Su24 April 6 2013 22: 16 New
      +4
      Russia needs all of Central Asia.
    4. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 7 2013 10: 15 New
      +1
      Do not forget about the uranium plant in Navoi
    5. il-z
      il-z April 7 2013 13: 47 New
      +2
      Good-stupid-naive question. It would sound normal if the presenter is used to looking at compatriots through the sight ...
      One of the main problems is that in the territory of Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, and the rest of the post. the Soviet republics there are quite a lot of people who in Central Asia were united into a separate nationality - the Russian-speaking population. Many left, but for a number of reasons, too, many remained. And in the case of a more or less large mess, most of them will run in our direction, and you don’t need to talk about the borders (read at hommer), if a million and a half Kazakhs walk along the border, and behind them several million more Russians, Tatars , Koreans, Ukrainians and other Russian-speaking people, and those who came to work or those who became Russians, but who have a lot of relatives there, will be pulled back to their families, neither the Russian, Kazakh or Uzbek army and the border service will stop them. It can be delayed, for example, by hurricanes and tornadoes over squares ...
      If you want to get benefits from poor people, I can advise you to get a job at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in the late 90s and early 2000s in Tashkent Russian citizenship cost 400 greenbacks, I myself saw how easily it was received by Caucasians and Uzbeks from the parallel line out of turn. And many friends stood up in the official line, which was then slightly smaller than in the mausoleum in the years of stagnation, but moved 150 times slower, and when they found out that in order to obtain citizenship they had to defend it several more times, they simply spat on this venture, just because going through this circle several times, you need super-strong health and physically impossible for most women and the elderly.
      There is also a cleaner option: interest the press, television, conduct a journalistic investigation, and you will be famous, loot (and benefit). If you don’t bang, because the money there probably revolves a lot.
  5. avt
    avt April 6 2013 16: 13 New
    +3
    Quote: Speckled32
    That's what we need them for? What is the use of them?

    It’s not even a matter of benefit; troubles would not have caught up.
  6. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 6 2013 16: 29 New
    -2
    The article is ignorant nonsense.
    The author is not even familiar with the basics of social science, not to mention the situation in Uzbekistan.
    1. Ali Baba
      Ali Baba April 7 2013 13: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Odyssey
      The article is ignorant nonsense.
      The author is not even familiar with the basics of social science, not to mention the situation in Uzbekistan.

      I respect competent koment :) An example of the author’s ignorance is the indication of exit visas :) comrade, but in Russia these visas are replaced by a passport :) which is not in Uz :) Full article, especially the pearl of integration with Afghanistan :)
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 7 2013 20: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Ali Baba
        I respect competent koment :) An example of the author’s ignorance is the indication of exit visas :) comrade, but in Russia these visas are replaced by a passport :) which is not in Uz :) Full article, especially the pearl of integration with Afghanistan :)

        There are a lot of pearls. Starting from the mythical "political laws of Eurasia" (it seems that the author skipped lectures on social studies in addition and not doing self-education), ending with a few factual studies. Here are visas, and "Afghanistan integration", and "drug trafficking" (although to our shame, the "democratic" RF itself is the largest channel of drug trafficking safely going through Tajikistan), etc.
        But I would not react so sharply to this article if it were not for the obvious harm that Russia would inflict with such "revelations".
        There is nothing more harmful than an attempt to insult or quarrel among the former fraternal republics of the USSR.
  7. Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer April 6 2013 16: 34 New
    +3
    In the current conditions, Uzbekistan should play the role of a sanitary cordon on the path of drug trafficking and Islamic terrorism. He must, but the national elite has little interest in this, since this is precisely what allows her to live happily ever after. It is no secret that everything is tied up there, and the corruption is such that we never dreamed of. Although I had to visit Uzbekistan before and I can say that the simple people there are not malicious, not aggressive. The immediate goal for the future union is to prevent an explosion in Uzbekistan, leave it in the orbit of our influence, make it a buffer between the union and Afghanistan!
  8. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek April 6 2013 16: 46 New
    +7
    here honest word is tired already. Well, how much longer should Russia take care and solve the problems of Central Asian states. Yes, let them finally deal with their problems themselves, the iron curtain to the border and let the natives do what they want and do
    1. not good
      not good April 6 2013 17: 36 New
      +7
      Exorbitant ambitions of the government of Uzbekistan are surprising. Well, if they were rich and healthy, because there’s a mess in the country, and they imagined themselves to be great politicians, not realizing that even a simple introduction of a visa regime by Russia would drastically worsen the stability of the regime. It’s not clear what Medvedev is waiting for or if he’s happy with the overrun do not put?
    2. mark021105
      mark021105 April 6 2013 22: 41 New
      +5
      And Russia is taking care of what, or whom, in Uzbekistan. even the vaunted program to promote the resettlement of compatriots does not really work a damn thing. If Russia wanted to, it would have a very firm position in Uzbekistan.
  9. de klermon
    de klermon April 6 2013 17: 32 New
    +6
    A deeply traditional, feudal-medieval society ... The Russians, having brought medicine, education, production and other benefits of European civilization to Central Asia, could not change the local way! Do you remember the film "Among the strangers, a stranger among the friends"? “And what will you do if there is money? - I’ll become a bai! ..” And that’s it. The question is in terminology - the president, the secretary general, the prime minister, the director, the policeman - it does not matter, they are all just BUY! And since the time of the Spartan king Leonid, it’s been known - kill Xerxes (the “high bail” or shah, sultan, etc.) and the eastern horde will crumble!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 15 2013 14: 42 New
      +3
      not that Armenia is a modern, post-industrial state ... yes? pot calls the kettle black...
  10. WWW.budanov
    WWW.budanov April 6 2013 17: 34 New
    -1
    According to the saying: "... an iron curtain to the border and let ..." I want to remind you of the situation in North Korea ... (!). Yes, and in our Union, the doors were also “closed”.
  11. Humpty
    Humpty April 6 2013 18: 18 New
    +5
    Actually a strange place in Uzbekistan. Famous carbonated drinks have their own unique taste there. At the hotel, friends buy cheap vodka with a beautiful label. Free labor on cotton.
  12. rudolff
    rudolff April 6 2013 18: 46 New
    +5
    The article is not serious. Uzbekistan is a fully integrated country. I can’t compare with the same Tajikistan or Kyrgyzstan. Historically, and in Soviet times, it has always been a regional leader. Russia made its conscious choice in favor of the Tajiks, whom the Uzbeks can’t stand and who will sooner or later have water and other wars. But having made this choice, Russia received nothing but a large "hole" in its territory for drugs, terrorists, etc. It seems to me that if it was necessary to rely on someone in Central Asia, then it should have been Uzbekistan. Or even then leave from there and strengthen the Kazakh borders!
    1. ATATA
      ATATA April 6 2013 19: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: rudolff
      Russia received nothing but a large "hole" in its territory

      You just think in a standard way, this is an open gate policy so that you can always return under a convenient pretext.
    2. Hius-124
      Hius-124 April 6 2013 20: 36 New
      +6
      Quote: rudolff
      strengthen the Kazakh borders!

      I agree to all 100%. In general, it seems that a tangle of contradictions and interests of various groups and movements has gathered in the Central Asian boiler, that it’s better to “smoke aside” than to rake eastern tricks - they will again be declared invaders and blame everything. And the borders are so that they do not run auls to us with their nasvaem when it burns there. hi
  13. sashka
    sashka April 6 2013 19: 09 New
    -7
    Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc. .. They just can’t be "integrated" anywhere either .. They are really "Independent". The question is from whom? Why and why "Can" Batkina "have firmness, or Unlimited" trust in Karimov ... But They "rule" correctly .. Not that "OUR" two-headed .. By the way, if possible .. Draw the Coat of Arms of Russia. With two heads .. Even the boy will say who is who.))) Thieves, however .. Judging by the “news” .. Russia got its deposits .. Maybe it’s better to boast of MACHINE-BUILDING AND PRODUCTION .. And do not wave the Nucleus stick? Paradox. What - Russia would become self-sufficient. What is needed ..? Disarm and Arm at a new level .. And what for 20 years, the mind was not enough. ? Well or not enough ..? Saddened ..
    1. Dmitry T
      Dmitry T April 6 2013 20: 57 New
      +3
      Rave. This is already nagging in the liver. Syndrome of a young pensioner.
  14. spanchbob
    spanchbob April 6 2013 19: 43 New
    +3
    Actually, it is precisely the Russian-speaking population of Uzbekistan that Karimov is supporting - for some reason ??? And after the Andijan events of 2005, only Putin and China supported Karimov ???
  15. stas
    stas April 6 2013 19: 51 New
    +6
    Uzbekistan is not a poor country, 5 place in the world in gold and uranium mining, cotton is grown, there is gas, fruit and vegetable products.
    But Karimov is clearly pursuing a Russophobic policy, such as Saakashvili.
    In vain, the Russian leadership supported Karimov, apparently hoping for something, but miscalculated.
    If they had closed the border for the Uzbeks, Karimov would have long been dared.
    There are many people who are for expanding ties with Russia. But the previous alliance with Uzbekistan is not necessary.
    We need practical and reasonable egoism in favor of Russia.
    We integrate Uzbekistan without Karimov, as he was Khan and Basmach, he remained so.
  16. sashka
    sashka April 6 2013 19: 55 New
    +1
    I know. himself from there .. The question is either .. or. Karimov plays perfectly .. Honor and praise .. He cares for “OWN” State .. Lukashenko is the same. And with “who” is played by “Pu and his team”? The question is rhetorical .. Does not require an answer .. esaul You have nothing to do with it)))) By the way, where's the three-volt?
    1. Ali Baba
      Ali Baba April 7 2013 13: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Sasha
      Karimov plays beautifully .. Honor and praise be to him .. He takes care of “OWN” State ..

      It is nice to know and read the comments of a person with an unshared worldview ....
  17. Ascetic
    Ascetic April 6 2013 21: 13 New
    11
    What is Uzbekistan today? The Russians did not allow him to become a second Afghanistan, but everything goes to the fact that now the Uzbeks themselves will return to primitive times. They have already returned to feudalism. The matter is left to the small.

    "when we accumulate the right amount of KC, we’ll buy yellow pants and we’ll spit on everyone’s backs."
    The blue dream of going to work in Russia, and not the common myth of poverty, unemployment and hunger.
    1. mark021105
      mark021105 April 6 2013 23: 07 New
      10
      The dream of going to work is not at all in this, dear Ascetic. I am one of those who have come in large numbers. I think it’s no secret to anyone that obtaining citizenship of the Russian Federation is not a very simple thing. I was born and raised in the Empire. What's next? Staying there and watching your kids turn into dumb survival? For me, I want so much that, even with bayonets, Russia's influence in the region will return. But this is from the realm of fiction. I do not wish evil to anyone in any form. But what's next?
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 April 7 2013 02: 59 New
        +4
        Quote: mark021105
        For me, I want so much that, even with bayonets, Russia's influence in the region will return.

        The desire is quite understandable But what kind of blood again for someone else's idiocy?
        1. antiaircrafter
          antiaircrafter April 7 2013 09: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Ruslan67
          But what kind of blood do we need again for someone else's idiocy?

          But we don’t need to. If they want "come in large numbers"
          Quote: mark021105
          so that even with bayonets, the influence of Russia in the region will return.
          so forward - we will provide with bayonets and drums.
  18. Lecha57
    Lecha57 April 6 2013 21: 19 New
    +3
    Sooner or later, all Asian countries will be involved in armed conflicts.
    1. Hius-124
      Hius-124 April 6 2013 21: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Lecha57
      Sooner or later, all Asian countries will be involved in armed conflicts.

      Yes, the legacy of the USSR has not yet been divided between the "heavyweights", so all the attention to the PV and the FMS of Kazakhstan and Russia. hi
  19. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 6 2013 22: 09 New
    +8
    Already tired of all these analysts, historians, memoirists, retirees and schoolchildren who are constantly pulling a nation for their eggs, with a sense of great responsibility and care. In the wrong hands, the "subject" is always thicker!
    The result is known in advance - for the most part there is a process of not deliberate and adequate discussion, but incitement of passions among the forum participants, squabble, mutual reproaches and insults.
    All this resembles fun from childhood, by adding yeast to the neighbor’s toilet.

    Cuiprodest? Cui bono
    1. hommer
      hommer April 6 2013 22: 35 New
      +6
      Quote: VadimSt
      Cuiprodest? Cui bono


      I agree with your thoughts. Plus, you are huge for the comment !!!!

      I have to correct you with Latin -
      QUI PRODEST? QUI BONO? - not C, but Q at the beginning.
      Attributed to L. Cassius Longinus Raville.


      1. wax
        wax April 6 2013 23: 53 New
        0
        And yet, in Latin, the first letter is not Q, but C (together - it was a typo)
        1. hommer
          hommer April 7 2013 00: 46 New
          +3
          Valery, good day!
          I didn’t even mention the slip, it’s clear that the slip.
          Regarding Q or C, please see http://latinsk.ru
          chapter Interrogative and relative pronouns.
          Sincerely.
  20. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 6 2013 22: 20 New
    0
    Quote: VadimSt
    Already tired of all these analysts, historians, memoirists, retirees and schoolchildren who are constantly pulling a nation for their eggs, with a sense of great responsibility and care. In the wrong hands, the "subject" is always thicker!
    The result is known in advance - for the most part there is a process of not deliberate and adequate discussion, but incitement of passions among the forum participants, squabble, mutual reproaches and insults.
    All this resembles fun from childhood, by adding yeast to the neighbor’s toilet.

    Cuiprodest? Cui bono
  21. воронов
    воронов April 6 2013 22: 21 New
    +2
    If it explodes in Uzbekistan, then it will not seem to us much, because the Kazakhs are technically not able to close the border with the Uzbeks, and we are not technically with the Kazakhs, and now politically, because in one TS
    1. hommer
      hommer April 6 2013 22: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: voronov
      Kazakhs are not technically able to close the border with the Uzbeks


      We can stupidly mine. To start. Enough grandmas.

      Quote: voronov
      and we with the Kazakhs neither technically, but now politically, because in one TS


      I do not understand, explain.
      1. wax
        wax April 6 2013 23: 59 New
        0
        Obviously what Voronov said - Russia and Kazakhstan have an open border, because are included in the vehicle.
  22. de_monSher
    de_monSher April 6 2013 23: 01 New
    0
    Lecha57


    Sooner or later, all Asian countries will be involved in armed conflicts.


    Nude, nude ... dream ... Now, really, you are touching me, comrades, gentlemen, "AnaletEgE". Your arguments sound something like this (in chorus):

    - I’ll give a tooth, Uzbekistan is blazing! A century of will not to see!

    If you ask normally - “where did you get this”, immediately make a pseudo-intelligent, national-chauvinistic or pseudo-imperial mine, write a bunch of letters, which again come down to the same thing:

    - I’ll give a tooth, it will be so! All winter, the right toe of the left foot sucked and sucked such an analyte! Now you just have to “suck” it!

    Really, people, that’s what it looks like. Do you need Uzbekistan in the CES? So say, without a pseudo-imperial crap, okay? Do not pull the mask where they are not needed.

    But in fact, about this analyteEgi, an article, I mean, I can recall such a case.

    2006 year. Summer. Tashkent. Standard Soviet dominium well-fortress. Early, early morning. And he got used to it in the mornings, at 5-6 o’clock. when especially sweet sleeps, a boy with cans of milk in the yard. Okay, everyone is delivering milk in Tashkent in the morning. And they shout at the same time - "Kiiiisli-the most exalted maaalako! .. Maaalako!". And this bastard, creative, got along, humming in a sonorous boyish voice, to the motive of the song “the wind blew from the sea, the wind blew from the sea, made melancholy… made melancholy!”, These are the very words that I quoted above “Kisliy malako !. "sour maalako! sour maaaaaaalako ... fresh maalako!" Well ... imagine how it sounded ... in the morning ... And it went on like this for ten days.

    So. Half past five in the morning. I stand on the balcony. I smoke. I listen to this refrain, and I smile a little, since I’ve already woken up. Then a window opens on the second floor, a lady peeks out from there, pretty, sleepy in negligee, that is - beautifully not dressed at all. And in a beautiful, also clear-cut, well-posed voice, for about 7-10 minutes, he explains in detail to this boy where to put this very “malako”, where to stick the cans, using “maaalako” as a lubricant. And "finally, if you don’t shut up the shas, ​​you’ll have" all your cues of Malako, lick from the ditch "." I heard as much. The boy, scared, and hid behind the cans. Patiently waited until the young lady speaks out. Then, cautiously, looking out from behind the can, gave out, in a loud, guttural "whisper":

    - Sister?! And Sister ?! And you can, Adin ... the last time to sing, A ?!

    If someone didn’t understand what I wanted to say, if I still have such “analyteEgi” I’m deciphering - Fuck you with sour milk in the “rear”, and not the war in Central Asia as a whole, and in Uzbekistan - in particular, analyteEgi damn it. At home, if you really wanted to, “croak” wars, suck out from fingers and from other parts of the body = spat out =.

    Like that...
    1. lav566
      lav566 April 7 2013 08: 15 New
      +2
      In Russia, they remember history well. Just before the Great
      Patriotic war was the country of Poland, the leadership
      which behaved the same way as Karimov now.
      Poland, trying to outwit everyone, negotiated with both Russia and Germany.
      It ended up losing her independence
      and condemned her people to suffering. And not only her own.
      In Russia, they just want to see an ally in Uzbekistan.
      And when you are told, wagging your tail back and forth, you will end badly,
      they know what they are saying.
    2. Semurg
      Semurg April 7 2013 10: 21 New
      +4
      I read about malacoooo, I laughed well in the morning, otherwise you read articles and comments completely blackmail and expecting universal troubles and misfortunes, or maybe they would like the neighbors to have a fire and they will tell you the spectators who will tell you.
      1. lav566
        lav566 April 7 2013 10: 34 New
        +2
        Russia just wants to see Uzbekistan as a reliable ally to ensure joint security. You don’t need more from you. In a pinch, Russia’s security
        able to provide herself. In Russia, never gloated if a neighbor’s house was on fire,
        but offered help.
  23. wax
    wax April 6 2013 23: 55 New
    +1
    Uzbekistan will be a problem in any way since has too much human, and moreover, young potential.
  24. Selevc
    Selevc April 7 2013 10: 54 New
    0
    Russia itself must change its foreign policy and development strategy to become a country more attractive for integration ...
    Russia itself must determine who is friend and enemy in the international arena and pursue a clear policy
    and understandable to everyone ... Moreover, in the post-Soviet space ideas should unite peoples
    - also simple and understandable to everyone - as opposed to Democracy ...
    And so while we had 20 years of imitation of integration processes in the form of the CIS !!! And this imitation eventually led to a complete mess in the post-Soviet space !!!
    1. lav566
      lav566 April 7 2013 11: 26 New
      0
      You write "Russia must change its foreign policy" Could you elaborate?
      What specifically change?
      1. Selevc
        Selevc April 7 2013 12: 04 New
        +1
        There are countries in the world that are pursuing a policy that is clearly hostile to Russia - they need to talk to them the same way and not bow down or keep quiet ... Then there are countries that are clearly friendly - they need to actively deepen cooperation in all areas ...

        Western democracy itself is destructive for Russia and the countries of the former union - as it destroys the fundamental foundations of our traditions, culture and peoples ... In Russia, it is high time to come up with our own unifying idea as opposed to Democracy - an idea based, for example, on spirituality, conservatism and succession of traditions of Slavic peoples !!!

        In all the former republics of the USSR, Russia needs to clearly pursue its integration policy - so that even the most provincial people know what will happen after integration and on what principles his country will integrate ... But at the moment Russia does not really have a clear long-term development strategy - and therefore the peoples of neighboring countries do not really understand where their name is?
      2. lav566
        lav566 April 7 2013 12: 06 New
        +1
        In order for “integration” to take place in the post-Soviet space,
        Russia should:
        - "Be attractive," te when pro-American neighbors
        mongrels spit at her, wipe the spit and smile cute
        -Sell your resources to neighbors not at the market price, but in a pendant
        -Russia itself must come up with ideas, "uniting peoples" -neighbors
        don't want to think
        - Continuously apologize to the neighbors for anything
        1. Selevc
          Selevc April 7 2013 12: 35 New
          0
          Yes, itself-if Russia sees itself as a center of unification !!! And if not - so what for then do you even integrate with someone?
    2. antiaircrafter
      antiaircrafter April 7 2013 11: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Selevc
      imitation of integration processes in the form of the CIS

      The CIS was created for the civilized divorce of the USSR, and not for integration.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc April 7 2013 11: 57 New
        -1
        So we have already been 20 years old - starting from Kuchma they have been talking about integration in the CIS territory - all our brains have already gone awry, but the real situation has not moved off the ground ...
  25. Selevc
    Selevc April 7 2013 11: 12 New
    0
    Quote: voronov
    because Kazakhs are not technically able to close the border with the Uzbeks


    And why ? Independent for 20 years and can’t close the border? So there’s always a Mercedes for generals
    money, but there is no money to close the border? And the army of Kazakhstan for what? And the border guards for what? And the crowd
    officials in the Ministry of Defense for what?

    All the processes that take place in the former Soviet space are very reminiscent of further decay processes and not some kind of small development !!!
  26. ed65b
    ed65b April 7 2013 12: 04 New
    0
    It doesn’t blaze, wait and see. While the Tsar has not yet died and seems to be adequate. Look at Navruz even danced like EBN. Moreover, I do not believe that once an explosion and a fire are direct. will begin permanently. Response time will remain.
  27. lav566
    lav566 April 7 2013 12: 30 New
    0
    I can’t say that the Russian leadership does not offer anything in terms of integration. A Customs Union has been created, supposed
    transform it into a Eurasian Union. The integration process should go gradually.
  28. Selevc
    Selevc April 7 2013 12: 34 New
    0
    Quote: lav566
    -Russia itself must come up with ideas, "uniting peoples" -Do not want to think together


    Yes, itself-if Russia sees itself as a center of unification !!! And if not - so what for then do you even integrate with someone?
  29. Selevc
    Selevc April 7 2013 12: 45 New
    +1
    I want to say the following - I have been living in Ukraine for a long time and as far as foreign policy is concerned, I see everything as it is ... In our 20 years of independence, only the voices of nationalists have been heard ... And lately, they have been especially ardent. These would come to Europe even on the bones of their own citizens !!!

    But this is a minority - the main population thinks differently !!! But there is no political force that would represent the interests of this majority !!! And we live - Bender barks, thieves quietly steal, people are silent !!!
  30. lav566
    lav566 April 7 2013 12: 51 New
    0
    The integration process is already underway. I just wrote here about the Customs Union and the Eurasian Union.
    There are other ideas. For example, the political scientist Kurginyan proposes to create the USSR 2.0. To collect there all the good that the USSR had
    and bring all the good that humanity came up with. The writer Prokhanov constantly advocates the idea of ​​an empire
    with the "friendly ensemble of peoples." On the Internet about all this you can get acquainted in detail.
    In the meantime, real integration is only within the framework of the Customs Union.
  31. lav566
    lav566 April 7 2013 13: 18 New
    +1
    I look with pain at what is happening in Ukraine.
    SUSHA wants to stir up the same thing in Russia. They want
    we heard only the cries of orange.
    Yesterday on TV they said that the CIA spends on the maintenance of NPOs in the Russian Federation,
    of these pro-American mongrels, about one billion dollars.
    Apparently, soon at the American embassy in Moscow
    will open offices where all these whores will receive grandmas
    on their anti-state activities. Clinton
    she said that they would not allow any integration.
  32. Ali Baba
    Ali Baba April 7 2013 13: 33 New
    -4
    Yes ... Well, someone very well ordered from the resentment of a strong Uzbekistan that only the black cherries IkspertoF self-published are printed here, how Russians are literally burned at bonfires at every intersection (Uzbekistan is worse off than Russia), then a lot of dirt will be waited on by Karimov Islam Abduganievich wait until the war begins here and they themselves don’t know and have never heard that they actually live here. Only one rhetoric to drive all the Uzbeks home to mine the borders and giggle when it burns out :) So wait, just wait until the wait is dry. And most importantly, we know and see what you are and that’s why there is no desire to cooperate with you; learn how to partner; we’ll talk to you; no, go through the forest; the empire’s time has ended and there will be no free resources anymore .... and don’t forget who your refugees in the Great Patriotic War sheltered with bread fed and gave a roof over his head ... and who sometimes fought with the Germans with you sometimes I think in vain we helped in vain maybe then the memory would not be so short ...
    1. lav566
      lav566 April 7 2013 14: 06 New
      +3
      It is useless to speak with the chronic Russophobe Ali Baba. He does not perceive any arguments.
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher April 7 2013 16: 06 New
        +1
        lav566

        It is useless to speak with the chronic Russophobe Ali Baba. He does not perceive any arguments.


        Stunned ... If Ali Baba is a Russophobe, then this dude then who:

        Krasnoyarsk
        Dependents surrendered to us, let them boil in their independence.


        Huh?

        I understand, of course, that idiocy cannot be cured, and talkativeness with unwillingness to think with your head at the same time is a kind of catatonia, but nevertheless, you are personally trying to at least look "impartial" ... *)
        1. lav566
          lav566 April 8 2013 07: 17 New
          0
          Russophobe is a person who hates Russia and Russians. In Ali Baba, it shows in everyone
          without exception comments. And Krasnoyarets just wants to say that if
          Uzbekistan does not want to cooperate, Russia will live without it.
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher April 8 2013 10: 53 New
            +1
            lav566

            Russophobe is a man who hates Russia and Russians.


            And there are also such concepts as - arrogance, nearness, stupidity, and simply - carelessness ... *) one of the spouses often suffers from such things in families, for example, as a result of which the family is not a family, but a madhouse .. . *)))

            A man, Ali Baba, tried several times to explain to you what for what, you all together dismissed all his arguments. He spars like a textbook, the whole "standard set" of the chauvinist, from the "encyclopedia of young I-other-nations-hate-people." And you, amicably, not only get along, but also take everything in all seriousness, which really surprises me, amazes me and ... = waved = = ... though, okay. It is unlikely that you will understand. Your illness is launched, the stage is unequivocally - terminal ... *)) Okay ... you need to get sick ...
          2. de_monSher
            de_monSher April 8 2013 12: 13 New
            +1
            I’ll try, nevertheless, to explain in more detail, so that there is no misunderstanding ... And so, in order.

            Numer Adyn. The fact is the 90s, were the years of games in all our countries "we are friendly columns in a bright capitalism." We marched together in a row - the result was a priest with a pen, that is, a cat's ass. I explain with examples. I studied at the last practically “Soviet” course in Tashkent. It seems that Uzbekistan became an independent country at that time, but this absolutely did not prevent us, students and teachers, from participating in interesting projects launched back in Soviet times. I myself, at one time, how much time I spent with you, so to speak, in Sosnovy Bor, Vyborg, etc. Guys, from a parallel stream, physicists - constantly disappeared in Dubna. In general, another fact - all this has come to naught, by the year commercials, 98th. You can safely draw the line - the 98-2000th year - the collapse of the Russian-Soviet scientific school, the Russian segment of science. Since this year, for example, all my publications have gone in English = it’s just easier for me to explain using personal examples, but believe me - trends =, in the English segment of the world scientific school. This can be called a real TROUBLE.

            Nume dyva. It is amazing where you dig out the "true" stories about Russophobia in Uzbekistan? All kinds of tales - "My friend got out in the year of the shaggy, 85th, out of the sewer manhole, all in shit, and a woman was walking by, some Uzbek woman, and said - don’t forget, Russian Vanya, whose bread you eat." Well? For example, I’m standing somehow, already in 2009, in the courtyard in Tashkent - I am smoking a cigarette, waiting for my girlfriend. Three Russian aunts immediately gathered around me, and began vividly discussing what Uzbeks, piglets, "came in large numbers (!), Now we don’t recognize the house - everything is messed up." I politely walked away from them, to the ballot box, so that there were no complaints - well, it happens, maybe it can really be in this house, several families from distant villages came, and have not yet socialized in the city, you can understand women, - so these rumors are back to me are moving forward, and let's even in more colorful terms, discuss the decline of morals, orders, and global trends of collapse and dissension. At that moment, having finally brought the marafet, my Russian friend appeared, by the way, and we went for a walk with her. And how do you, in your opinion, draw conclusions, bleed with evil foam about these aunts? I think no. This is nothing more than a change house, kitchen conversations. But in fact, in Uzbekistan, for inciting ethnic hatred, you can easily get a MINIMUM, 9 years from confiscation, you live great. And so, the second point that I would like to emphasize is domestic nationalism, which blooms and smells in all our countries. This is a real TROUBLE.
          3. de_monSher
            de_monSher April 8 2013 12: 49 New
            0
            Numeric tyry. Economy. Firstly, you can make a short excursion to Adyn. And so, we went into the bright capitalism in the 90s. At one rate or another, but walked. They came, thank God. Russia has something to brag about? Than? The wildest social inequality? You, really, are many here on the forum - can you boast of something? Super profits of your own? Maybe just - income? I think no. Does Uzbekistan have something to brag about? Also not - the same trends as in Russia, only with a coefficient-factor at times. But Kazakhstan has something to brag about? Sitting in Astana is a cool city. More or less, you can find a piece of bread. You go to Stepnogorsk, near at all - poverty is amazing. What are you trying to brag about, comrades, gentlemen, gentlemen? And so, the economies in all our countries are created according to one pattern - steal everything that is bad, stuff your pockets, and after us at least a flood. The economies, if we discard all sorts of digital indicators, we have roughly the same ones - thieves. The rest is from the evil one. This is a real TROUBLE.

            Numer Chechira. You are here, some of you, have mentioned, about slavery, khanates and ramifications of all sorts. Nude, Nude. I come to St. Petersburg once, recently, from an expedition = at that time there was a serious movement at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, and from my old memory they connected = Just a break, chatting with friends, and I love this city ... But I don’t have to go right away to say that I’m taking your work away from you — I still have a job, a little different. So, just started to come to my senses, the guys turned to me and asked me to have a guy in my quartet, a common friend. Yes, no question, hi lives. And so, man, Russian. He was engaged in business, did not touch anyone. In central Russia, I emphasize. So him on lawlessness, "overturned" to zero on the loot. They kept them for three months in a village, they beat him constantly. We almost sold them into slavery. Moreover, not some Caucasians - their own, Russian. He, according to him, miraculously escaped - a kind man helped. Moreover, the guys who did this were cops, so attempts to turn to the cops did not lead to anything. Unsubscribes, excuses and all came. How I brought him to you, you would know. Man, while I was in St. Petersburg, was afraid go out, he turned off the phone and gave it to me. I tried to hang myself a couple of times. A man brought himself into force. AND? Do you still want to talk about slavery? Nude, nude ...

            So, here are such pies with kittens ... You would still people would open their eyes. They stopped living with their eyes wide shut, or something. I personally do not like anyone nationalism, it smells bad - shit and blood. It’s better, for me, to be above all man, and only then - a representative of his nation, etc. etc.

            Look something like this ...
      2. Ali Baba
        Ali Baba April 8 2013 08: 28 New
        0
        Quote: lav566
        With a chronic Russophobe, Ali Baba is useless to speak.

        Comrade, I'm the same Russophobe as most Russians are xenophobic wink
  33. il-z
    il-z April 7 2013 13: 55 New
    0
    Quote: il-z
    That's what we need them for? What is the use of them?
    Good-stupid-naive question. It would sound normal if the presenter is used to looking at compatriots through the sight ...
    One of the main problems is that in the territory of Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, and the rest of the post. the Soviet republics there are quite a lot of people who in Central Asia were united into a separate nationality - the Russian-speaking population. Many left, but for a number of reasons, too, many remained. And in the case of a more or less large mess, most of them will run in our direction, and you don’t need to talk about the borders (read at hommer), if a million and a half Kazakhs walk along the border, and behind them several million more Russians, Tatars , Koreans, Ukrainians and other Russian-speaking people, and those who came to work or those who became Russians, but who have a lot of relatives there, will be pulled back to their families, neither the Russian, Kazakh or Uzbek army and the border service will stop them. It can be delayed, for example, by hurricanes and tornadoes over squares ...
    If you want to get benefits from poor people, I can advise you to get a job at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in the late 90s and early 2000s in Tashkent Russian citizenship cost 400 greenbacks, I myself saw how easily it was received by Caucasians and Uzbeks from the parallel line out of turn. And many friends stood up in the official line, which was then slightly smaller than in the mausoleum in the years of stagnation, but moved 150 times slower, and when they found out that in order to obtain citizenship they had to defend it several more times, they simply spat on this venture, just because going through this circle several times, you need super-strong health and physically impossible for most women and the elderly.
    There is also a cleaner option: interest the press, television, conduct a journalistic investigation, and you will be famous, loot (and benefit). If you don’t bang, because the money there probably revolves a lot.
  34. Igarr
    Igarr April 7 2013 14: 58 New
    0
    Hello to all.
    Well, what an empty article.
    The nonsense is complete.
    In addition to repetitions in different types of repetitions from rehearsal repeated pronunciations, he did not bear anything.
    From the previous sentence - is there much that is clear?
    So from the whole article.
    ..
    And the comments are so diverse that even any opinion does not add up.
    .
    Time will put everything in its place.
    Uzbekistan is not a state about which certain conclusions can be drawn. This is "Russia in Miniature" - in fact.
    Cemented now - Karimov I. Will not become Karimov - then we will ... look.
    And to make forecasts .... to write with a pitchfork on water.
  35. Naval
    Naval April 7 2013 15: 02 New
    0
    The question is where the international gang of "liberators" will move after liberation, with the "democratic" help of course Syria ... It seems they have adopted Trotsky’s theory of permanent revolution.
  36. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 7 2013 15: 32 New
    +1
    Well, how do they now live when they separated? Have you started to live better?
    1. mark021105
      mark021105 April 7 2013 20: 10 New
      +1
      They did not separate, they were abandoned ...
      1. Stalin1982
        Stalin1982 April 7 2013 22: 36 New
        +1
        Sorry, but Karimov is worse than a port prostitute. There is no instinct for self-preservation.
        1. de_monSher
          de_monSher April 8 2013 15: 01 New
          0
          Stalin1982 & lav566

          Wuhu ... let's think about this topic. But first, we’ll designate a reference point - in this case, my position. You will designate your position yourself.

          To the so-called "business" I belong with hostility. "Business", in the economic, modern sense of the word, is a perversion implicated in the suffering of people. Especially if it is a business - political. So, in something I agree with you, I do not like Karimov. I am ready to respect - a physicist, a physician, a chemical technologist, - a scientist in general, a simple hard worker - a turner, a welder, etc. But as soon as I understand that I am talking, for example, with a financier, economist, speculator, broker, etc. - I treat such a person badly - a priori. This is the starting point. Farther.

          Let’s take a look at what kind of “business” Russia used to spin with the “outskirts”, so to speak. Business number one is money scam. At one time, Russia, assuring, including Uzbekistan, that "no monetary reforms are foreseen, the ruble zone will forever be peace, friendship, chewing gum!", Reassuring, euthanizing, throwing a huge money supply of old bills into the outskirts, spent lightning fast monetary reform. Not a single economy, as it were, of the "fraternal" countries at that time, simply SUPPORTED. Uzbekistan, which was absolutely unprepared for such a turn of events, almost fell into a pipe. Good - got out ... somehow ...

          The nineties. Karimov - "Brothers, it’s bad on the borders. Let's think about a common army, about a confederation, about joint defense? Ah?" In response - "Go through the forest, but the steppe." And - on the air. AND? What is it like? Well, we got out, somehow ...

          And you people still have the guts to talk about "betrayal"? Maybe about "trust"? Huh ... I do not care, dear edition. Here, you, or rather your rulers, yourself set the direction of the movement - "drang nah ... capitalism. Business only, nosing els!".

          Eh ... guys guys ...
  37. saygon66
    saygon66 April 8 2013 00: 59 New
    0
    - Integration - in interstate relations means the merging of states in order to create a single economic, political and social space ... Obviously, this process is possible only with the complete coincidence of the interests of the ruling elites, and this is where the first question arises: do these two coincide? interests?
    Ideally, two countries roughly equal in terms of economic and development should unite, in our case this is also not the case.
    In social terms, the merger implies the provision of equal rights and opportunities to the citizens of the united state ... here, let both the representatives of Russia and the representatives of Uzbekistan honestly answer themselves - do they want to exist side by side with representatives of an alien culture and language? Equal opportunities include the provision of educational places in universities, schools, kindergartens, hospitals, the possibility of free residence of citizens of the alliance throughout the territory ... Who is ready to leave for permanent residence in warmer climes? ... Or maybe someone is ready to give up their child's place in the nursery garden go to university?
    A case in point is Germany’s integration - the lands of the former GDR still lag behind the more developed FRG, drawing on the resources of more economically prosperous lands. And the Germans do not see a quick solution to this problem ...
    Is Russia able to hold such an event without harming itself?
    Consent is a product with complete non-opposition of the parties ... And without it, integration is more like occupation, and there the poor ones are poor ... As for the creation of a buffer zone, will the Uzbeks themselves agree to fight with the fraternal Afghan people for the quiet life of the Russians? So far, such readiness has not been observed. So to see from everything that the brotherhood of nations was covered with a copper basin ...
  38. saygon66
    saygon66 April 8 2013 01: 19 New
    0
    - Integration - in interstate relations means the merging of states in order to create a single economic, political and social space ... Obviously, this process is possible only with the complete coincidence of the interests of the ruling elites, and this is where the first question arises: do these two coincide? interests?
    Ideally, two countries roughly equal in terms of economic and development should unite, in our case this is also not the case.
    In social terms, the merger implies the provision of equal rights and opportunities to the citizens of the united state ... here, let both the representatives of Russia and the representatives of Uzbekistan honestly answer themselves - do they want to exist side by side with representatives of an alien culture and language? Equal opportunities include the provision of educational places in universities, schools, kindergartens, hospitals, the possibility of free residence of citizens of the alliance throughout the territory ... Who is ready to leave for permanent residence in warmer climes? ... Or maybe someone is ready to give up their child's place in the nursery garden or university?
    A case in point is Germany’s integration - the lands of the former GDR still lag behind the more developed FRG, drawing on the resources of more economically prosperous lands. And the Germans do not see a quick solution to this problem ...
    Is Russia able to hold such an event without harming itself?
    Consent is a product with complete non-opposition of the parties ... And without it, integration is more like occupation, and there the poor ones are poor ... As for the creation of a buffer zone, will the Uzbeks themselves agree to fight with the fraternal Afghan people for the quiet life of the Russians? So far, such readiness has not been observed. So to see from everything that the brotherhood of nations was covered with a copper basin ...
    As for the education of the pro-Russian elite: there have always been some proponents of cooperation with Russia, but unfortunately (?) They are not the ones who make the weather ...
  39. lav566
    lav566 April 8 2013 08: 13 New
    0
    Quote: saygon66
    and the Uzbeks themselves will agree to fight with the fraternal Afghan people for the quiet life of the Russians?

    I’m afraid that if the Taliban trample into Central Asia, they will not sing songs with the Uzbeks there, but there will be a massacre.
    An example is Syria and Libya. There one brotherly people with pleasure cuts another.
    1. de_monSher
      de_monSher April 8 2013 13: 35 New
      0
      lav566

      I’m afraid that if the Taliban trample into Central Asia, they will not sing songs with the Uzbeks there, but there will be a massacre.


      You make me laugh, with such comments. Now, if you were more or less aware of the events that were there, then another conversation. And so, you, don’t be offended - you are carrying “academic” nonsense, like another comrade from Kazakhstan, who is broadcasting under the nickname “Marek Rozny”.

      And so, the facts - the mid-90s, the beginning of the 2000s - were very hot. I myself, had to undo shoulder straps after the university for 2 years - such karma, the whole family is military - you won’t get away from fate, so to speak. Then the Taliban perled, yes - there were shelling of the Uzbek Termez. There were also Taliban landings in Tajikistan - and you marvel at it, the groups come on old, broken-up “bears”. Reached once, practically to Tashkent, to Bostanlyk = 100 km from Tashkent =. Survived? Let the Taliban go? It seems like not, they did not let me go. Although many of our guys died, both in Tajikistan and in the south of our native Uzbekistan - what to do, such is the life and fate of any normal man - to defend his home and his country. Only through the SNB = this is the National Security Service of Uzbekistan = until the beginning of the 2000s, there were several thousand of our children in Tajikistan. Worked and defended. So what? Did you know that? I think no. Just your words, against the background of many thousands of dead children — Uzbeks, Russians, Tajiks, Tatars, Ukrainians, Belarusians — sound not just like nonsense, but like blasphemy, practically. Perhaps you ran to the mountains in the mid-90s, to fight? No, I think. What are you reasoning about, man?
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher April 8 2013 14: 00 New
        0
        By and large, the Americans then gave us a respite then, in the early 2000s, invading Afghanistan in a Cobobian way. Just on hand It turned out, on time and by the way. On that moment, fighting Uzbekistan’s losses were estimated at about 5000, which is quite a lot. There was no experience, unfortunately. Experience earned by blood. So ... so ... come on, comrade, pretend to be an "academician of military and geopolitical sciences." To do this, you would need to do “field trips” from time to time, for reconnaissance, or something ...
      2. lav566
        lav566 April 8 2013 16: 00 New
        0
        Call it "massacre", "war", "clash." This does not change the essence.
        In any case, the Taliban do not have warm feelings for you.
        This was the meaning of my statement.
        And I said this in response to saygon66 remark,
        that the Uzbeks are unlikely to agree to fight the Taliban. So they already
        are fighting
        In general, I noticed that you can’t say it, screams and accusations follow immediately.
        Some kind of psychological incompatibility.
        Bottom line: I don’t know what the bosses in the Kremlin think there, but my thought
        simple: want to collaborate on joint defense
        and security, the Russian Federation is ready. But only honestly, without wagging
        ass. And if you cheat, then the Russian Federation must be from Central Asia
        to leave.
        1. de_monSher
          de_monSher April 8 2013 16: 29 New
          0
          And if you cheat


          Tricky, as a rule, are politicians. If people as a whole begin to suffer from cunningness, then this is called a “legal society”, which blooms and bears fruit in Europe and the USA. And as for your rhetoric, do not engage in sophistry exercises. "I actually meant not that - but that." This is exactly the same trend, called cunningness. I specifically, for you, paint the EXTENDED comments to cover as many questions as you raised, just the same ...

          But in general, if you take into account your clarification that you, de "meant something completely different, what you had in mind," it turns out our whole conversation was about nothing, and "yelled" according to your own logic, you will succeed, moreover, empty place ...

          Like that...
          1. lav566
            lav566 April 8 2013 17: 03 New
            0
            I never said: "I actually meant, not that - but that."
            And don’t be rude! Your Karimov is cunning!
            1. de_monSher
              de_monSher April 8 2013 17: 14 New
              0
              Yah!!! Really!

              Russophobe is a person who hates Russia and Russians. In Ali Baba, it shows in everyone
              without exception comments. And Krasnoyarets just wants to say that if
              Uzbekistan does not want to cooperate, Russia will live without it.


              Call it "massacre," "war," "clash


              e. "The essence of this does not change.
              In any case, the Taliban do not have warm feelings for you.
              This was the meaning of my statement.


              Are these statements both yours? *)) Yours. In the first case, in one of the articles, I chided Ali Baba, according to the type of "Shame on you, apply the common stamp - all Russian drunkards. This is not good and complete untruth." And he answered me in plain text - "I am being thrown stamps, I am throwing stamps - what is not clear here? But - it’s funny, then." You bother to understand what he’s trying to say to you, and at the same time, the statements of Krasnoyarsk are normal for you, but Ali Baba ... ah, ah, ah ... the label is Russophobe! And you are happy at the same time, like an elephant in a china shop, by golly ... *))

              As for my personal rudeness, it, believe me, cannot be compared with your stamped "generalized" rudeness. Although, in any case, I offer for my rudeness, my personal, deep and sincere apologies ... Accept? *)

              Further, I repeat, I do not defend Karimov. Moreover, I think that he is now the main drag on the development of Uzbekistan. He and his entire clan. But he is a “businessman," just like most of your politicians. And they swim in the same water, and eat each other. Do you understand? This is their habitat.
              1. lav566
                lav566 April 8 2013 17: 55 New
                0
                I accept. And I apologize if that.
                As for Ali Baba, my opinion remains the same. A man who repeats endlessly:
                Russians, leave, it’s better without you, you rob us, we helped you, and you suck juices from us
                and so on and so forth is a complete Russophobe!
            2. lav566
              lav566 April 8 2013 17: 23 New
              0
              I want to add specifically for de_monSher. Personally for me
              no need to write LONG comments. Thoughts need to be expressed
              clearly and in a military way. It is a pity that we get one nonsense here.
              You need to be friends with Russian people. They are kind and helpful.
              And when they cut the uncomfortable truth, it means it is boiling.
              It must be somehow understood too. And appreciated.
              In general, the question is really the same for us: we will be friends at home or separately.
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher April 8 2013 17: 30 New
                0
                lav566

                Thoughts need to be expressed
                clearly and in a military way. It is a pity that we get one nonsense here.


                Wow. You probably did not write detailed reports on the situation ... *) And in the discussion of this article, the situation is awful. All this time I tried to give you a detailed description of the situation in Uzbekistan. You, friend, are in many ways wrong, because in reality - you have not seen the situation in the vicinity, in development. You look at the consequences, forgetting about the reasons. And about friendship with the Russians. It has never been interrupted, and will not be interrupted, if you yourself, I mean Russia, again, as in the 90s you would not behave like an elephant in a china shop. For the umpteenth time, I emphasize this to you here - I do not yell, do not charge, but simply say - "if you need an Empire, think like an Imperial, and not like a national chauvinist." Otherwise, do not cook porridge ...
                1. lav566
                  lav566 April 8 2013 18: 10 New
                  0
                  I’m not a national chauvinist. I didn’t insult Uzbekov here, I did not urge them to drive them from Russia to the neck. You are confusing me with someone, comrade!
                  This afternoon I was riding in an electric train, next to an Uzbek with a little daughter. The guy is smart, kind
                  face. I don’t feel any hostility towards him. A young guy came to work.
                  Well, let it work. In some other situation, you could become friends.
                  What the fuck is an empire if any of you hiss: the Russian go away!
                  Empire is, as Prokhanov says, "a friendly ensemble of peoples."
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher April 8 2013 18: 42 New
                    0
                    lav566

                    I am not a national chauvinist.


                    I, directly, didn’t accuse you of national chauvinism. I quoted the words of Krasnoyarsk. At the same time, I’m in a discussion - Ali Baba spoke out, about the incorrectness of the statement about the “drunkenness” of the Russians, you normally reacted to the words of a compatriot, about the dependents of the Uzbeks. Do you understand? But these are trifles, in fact ...

                    Next - the structure, especially managerial, imperious, always strive for optimization. In any case, all our countries will strive for one or another integration structure. And according to anyone, one way or another, the territory of the former USSR is "doomed" to Imperialization, one way or another ... = shrugged =. For me personally, this is an absolutely normal trend.

                    As for "Russian go away!", You really dramatize the situation. If it were all so bad, now about 500-700 thousand Russians, up to one and a half million Russian-speaking people would not have lived in Uzbekistan, and ... yes, I myself probably would not have thought and written in Russian ... = that is , plus, minmum more than two thirds of Uzbekistan, loyal to Russia =.

                    Here is another question, of course, to what extent, you, as the bearer of "new integration ideas that are different from the Empire ... since we need Uzbekistan as an ally" = I do not literally, but brought your own words =, pervert the very concept, Empire ... *)) excuse me for being straightforward ... *))
                    1. lav566
                      lav566 April 8 2013 19: 54 New
                      0
                      Quote: de_monSher
                      You normally reacted to the words of a compatriot about the dependents of the Uzbeks

                      There is no time to respond to the foolish nonsense of every compatriot.
                      As for the empire. Who now agrees to the role of an older and younger brother?
                      The concept of empire must be rethought. I here gave the definition of Prokhanov.
                      It would be nice if everyone voluntarily agreed to live in a huge country.
                      And it is easier to fight off enemies. And the market is again large, which means the economy is stronger.
                      The benefits are actually full!
                      Try to explain it Ali Babe / I am not able to.
        2. saygon66
          saygon66 April 8 2013 16: 40 New
          0
          - Please do not take my comments as a provocation! As De Monsterr said above, “protecting your home is the fate of every man!” In the case of integration, will some want to die "for Moscow", while others "for independent Uzbekistan"? The question, of course, is for the supporters of this very integration ...
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher April 8 2013 16: 49 New
            0
            saygon66

            As De Monsterr said above, “protecting your home is the fate of every man!”


            Well, firstly, I’m Cher, not Sterr ... although, maybe, I’m behaving, of course, a little bitchily... *) Well, and secondly, I repeat, I’m a hereditary military man, although I have lost my way, so I went to mathematics ... And neither my Father, when he fought with the Chinese, nor my Brother when he was thrown to Baku, then to Tajikistan, in the 92nd, at one time - no questions arose, for whom and for whose house they shed blood or are about to shed. Well, to myself, a sample of the mid-90s, my soul was warmed only by the fact that, nevertheless, behind me, my reality, my mentality, my Motherland, nevertheless - even though they were already called the CIS then, and so to speak, they were going to be "culturally divorced." Well, shas, ​​the filthy soul. I especially read your, "academic" comments, it becomes even more rotten ...

            Like that...
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 April 8 2013 17: 10 New
              0
              - The “academic nature” of my comments is a consequence of the ban on the mat on the site. And the question of the state of mind is similar, since the reality of Uzbekistan in 90 completely destroyed the established mentality!
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher April 8 2013 17: 37 New
                0
                saygon66 & lav566

                - The “academic nature” of my comments is a consequence of the ban on the mat on the site. And the question of the state of mind is similar, since the reality of Uzbekistan in 90 completely destroyed the established mentality!


                Nuuuu ... 90s, sad era. Everything was ... and massacres, on national grounds, and explosions of chauvinism. I personally, my reality, my mentality, shore, believe me. And in Uzbekistan, my reality, my mentality, this is not a small island in the ocean, but rather still - a huge continent, in a not very large sea ... *) All I can say about this ... next - think for yourself ... not children ... like...
                1. saygon66
                  saygon66 April 8 2013 17: 54 New
                  0
                  - Yes, everything is clear: there are always less bad guys, but they, damn it, are always more active ...
                  But I'm not talking about the personal ... I really would like to know how everything is seen on the other side of the fence ... well, or barricades ...
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher April 8 2013 18: 06 New
                    0
                    saygon66

                    Sorry friend. He spent the last three years with breaks in Ukraine and Belarus, at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant. break out struggled to Peter, mainly to break back at any time. And ... I'm sorry, I have a purely Imperial education.

                    I can say that in communicating with Friends and Relatives, the constant, the economic situation in Uzbekistan is awful, real. The 2010th year was a severe crop failure, and the real possibility of famine, a repetition of 2006, when there was a severe famine in several areas.

                    Political situation - complete amorphous. By and large, the naked eye can see - where not to throw, everywhere a wedge. An attempt to flirt with the United States, do not end in good, do you think Karimov does not understand this? But the attempt to “make friends” with Russia, again, is engendered in the heads of politicians by the memories of the early 90s - then, there was a real scam from Yeltsin-Gaidar Russia. And now, all the more so, - the Russian trends cause concern - you have become big capitalists than the most-most "evil" capitalists ... *)) Look, even Belarus, to be afraid of many things ... *) China-will gobble up and not even lick. In general, I don’t know ... I don’t know ... To give forecasts in this situation is a thankless task ...
                    1. saygon66
                      saygon66 April 8 2013 18: 34 New
                      0
                      - Que c`est triste, mon ami ...
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny April 15 2013 14: 56 New
                        +2
                        Quote: saygon66
                        - Que c`est triste, mon ami ...

                        On the site it is strictly forbidden to write non-Russian. Admins will see and immediately issue a warning with a personal record. Even for such a short phrase. Do not believe me, ask the admins))))
                  2. de_monSher
                    de_monSher April 8 2013 18: 23 New
                    0
                    In general, in my opinion, the Prime Minister of Uzbekistan will come to power, most likely, the bank will go towards Russia. And he, the prime minister, seems to have strong positions, and a lot of different, "necessary" information for everyone ... *) = shrugged =. His opponents will come to power ... hmm ... it will already be the worst of all ... but, this is my personal opinion ... *) Just now, you should not drive the wave, especially at the household level ... absolutely, completely - not worth it ... Shas time to wait ...

                    And, yet, without external influence, present-day Uzbekistan is not in it’s not burning... People, in 2006, even dying of hunger, did not rise strongly, did not rebel ... so ... so ... so such things ...
      3. ed65b
        ed65b April 8 2013 18: 35 New
        0
        Something you dear de_monSher mislead the audience (to put it mildly). There have never been any shelling of Termez. On the other side of Daria, Dostum (by the way, also an Uzbek) stood. And his business was established with the Uzbeks. And whose losses are 5000? During the civil war in the RT, the Russians globally defended the republic from the “Vovchiks” and took Nurek under guard and provided air support from kokayta.
        1. de_monSher
          de_monSher April 8 2013 18: 54 New
          0
          ed65b

          Something you dear de_monSher mislead the public (to put it mildly)


          The last shelling of Termez was, God forbid, already in 2002 ... about 30 rockets were launched, the Grad system ... = shrugged =. in 97-2000 they were frequent. I ALWAYS say only what I know and what I can answer for ...
          1. ed65b
            ed65b April 8 2013 20: 31 New
            0
            Do you even believe yourself when you talk about it ???? What shelling Termez ???? I have a wife from there and my nephew at the border serves. stop making bullshit. After high school 2-year-old - that just does not seem. Have you been to the border?
            1. de_monSher
              de_monSher April 8 2013 21: 26 New
              0
              ed65b

              After high school 2-year-old - that just does not seem. Have you been to the border?



              At the border, "were" ... The rest is your right to judge, not judge ... Even, I will say - your duty ... *)
            2. blanket
              blanket April 10 2013 02: 42 New
              0
              Akhunbabaev and Chkals fired at Khairaton. it is not Termez but nearby. do not lower the person below the baseboard.
  40. Kazbek
    Kazbek April 8 2013 10: 22 New
    +2
    Who wants to integrate if they always shout why we need to feed someone, there should be equality and without mutual insult. The younger brother has grown up and does not want to listen to the older one. Therefore, you should not scream, but try to set the right path.
  41. lav566
    lav566 April 8 2013 18: 59 New
    0
    Turning to de_monSher:
    If you are so smart, you know how to express your thoughts with complex subjects
    offers, then you sit here all day in a circle of simple
    Russian people, barely holding back the mat, and discussing
    international environment with short chopped phrases?
    Give Ali Babu to us here!
    Would you go to write newspaper articles! Honestly, I would read with pleasure!
    1. de_monSher
      de_monSher April 8 2013 19: 09 New
      0
      lav566

      Turning to de_monSher:
      If you are so smart, you know how to express your thoughts with complex subjects


      Ghee ... *)) Your flattery, I will drop it, but in general - have hit the nail on the head. In general, when I have free time, I write in the NF genre ... Olday, Valentinov’s master classes took place at the time ... *))) This is really bad, right? ..

      And about the fact that I’m sitting on the forum right now, it’s so bad to try to explain something to others, on a question that worries you? Should I leave? Was it sarcasm, or simple irony? *)
  42. saygon66
    saygon66 April 8 2013 19: 10 New
    0
    - (Horrified ...): Not Ali Babu! I have a weak heart ... wassat
    1. lav566
      lav566 April 8 2013 19: 29 New
      0
      Ali Baboi is boring! Mumbling the same thing! Maybe he is a good person and it would be with him
      It’s interesting to sit and talk. Surely, he would tell a lot of interesting things.
      But not on the forum!
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 April 8 2013 20: 07 New
        0
        -Some forum visitors look like a fan of a football club accidentally entering the rival fan club bar: there are no common themes, but ambition does not allow them to leave!
  43. astra
    astra April 28 2013 14: 37 New
    +3
    If you cover the borders, then immediately the silk will
  44. T-baev
    T-baev 23 May 2013 21: 02 New
    0
    S. Uralov argues from the position of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. In his opinion, we have thought everything through for you too, so why don’t you join? Even in the EU, the opinion of each member is taken into account, and in the Customs Union as at a party meeting, the majority voted if you please. And Uzbekistan this does not suit him, like all states, he has his own interests, therefore his opinion to which Russia does not want to listen, and here is the result.