Military Review

Leonid Ivashov: China Sees Russia as an Ally of 21 Century

63
Leonid Ivashov: China Sees Russia as an Ally of 21 CenturyChina alone will not be able to withstand the struggle with the united West, and Xi Jinping’s visit is intelligence, as far as Russia is really ready to make the Eurasian vector a priority.


22 in March, Chinese President Xi Jinping will make his first international trip, he is going to visit Russia and three African states, as well as take part in the BRICS summit. The fact that he will visit Russia on his first trip abroad after being elected chairman will show that China intends to develop Chinese-Russian relations. China’s desire to strengthen ties between countries is connected with what, Leonid Ivashov, president of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, told in an interview with Nakanune.RU.

Q: Xi Jinping is making her first overseas visit to Russia on a new post. Then follow the countries of Africa. Leonid G., as far as it is symbolic, with what do you connect it?

Leonid Ivashov: China is positioning itself as the center of the East. Today, against the background of his successes, he does not want to go to the West, understanding the essence of the West, cooperates with the West only for reasons of pragmatism, but China does not have spiritual affinity or affinity with the West, and never will, like Russia, by the way. And today China has a turning point: last year, in the Renmin Ribao newspaper, the main party media, it appeared that China and Russia should create an alliance against the West. The fact that China is now again speaking with the ideas of internationalism, and the fact that they held a plenum of the Central Committee of the party last year, at which they discussed the issue of cultural security of the PRC, Chinese identity - this suggests that Russia today can become China’s main partner only in the economy, not only in the hydrocarbon raw material sector, but also the main partner in the reorganization of the world. And here the two vectors coincide, and the Chinese oriental vector, and the Russian Eurasian vector, about which Putin, Nazarbayev, Lukashenko spoke. And so the new head of the Chinese Republic wants to clarify the position of Russia - is Russia really leaving the western direction and wants to find allies in the east.

In China, geopolitics is based on two principles: the principle of “wall” is a certain “autocracy” - not to let into its space what is not traditional, not typical for China, that is, this western corruption, the western model of the financial system, the liberal economy, and so on. .d And another principle on which China’s geopolitics is built is the principle of “the way” - to go into the world, carry your values ​​and goods into the world, and at the same time take everything that is valuable in the world. This is manifested today: what will be useful for the Chinese economy, for the Chinese civilization as a whole, even in the West, they will take, and they will “give” their goods, their culture.

As for Russia, yes, Russia does not follow the socialist path, but those Putin’s attempts to change Russia just say that Putin is ready to go for a planned economy as the basis for the development of the state. And in this we are close with China. The fact that Russia traditionally gives priority to a certain spirituality, intellectuality, the development of the integrity of society - this also coincides with the Chinese approaches. Therefore, a visit to Xi Jinping will be intelligence, as far as Russia is really ready to carry out its development, making the Eurasian vector, the Asian vector, a priority. If a serious conversation with Putin is obtained, then the Shanghai Cooperation Organization can already be developed into a large Eurasian alliance of civilizations.

Question: And as for the Customs Union, in this regard, China is not worried that its creation will limit the ability to export Chinese goods?

Leonid Ivashov: Now, if we form the Eurasian Union on the basis of the SCO, then we will no longer enter the space of a new continental bloc - Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Kazakhstan, and we will be one organized core. This is China should not be frightening, because we are one.

Question: Are there any contradictions between Russia and China nowadays that manifest themselves inside the SCO?

Leonid Ivashov: There are no fundamental contradictions, China is waiting for Russia to abandon the imposition of a Western value system on its country and the post-Soviet space, on the priority of the Western direction. China is especially interested in our resources so that they do not flow into Europe, but turn in an east direction. We have coinciding plans for the development of the Arctic, the Northern Sea Route, and we need to offer this to China, and India, to other countries of the East. There are no fundamental contradictions, if Russia chooses the traditional Eurasian way of development for itself, then together with China in the framework of the new union, it is possible to create a new economic model that is different from the model of the West. What else positive China sees in cooperation with Russia is that Russia never prioritizes any internal political issues of the partner country, as the West does: human rights are violated in China, the yuan is not devalued there. Russia does not climb into such matters, which means it is a more profitable long-term partner for China.

Question: It can be said, the West is on the alert. Do you think Western countries mistakenly believe that China, having become richer and more powerful, and is now “too self-confident”?

Leonid Ivashov: This confidence in them was present before. But earlier, the high rates of economic development formed a whole stratum of Chinese businessmen and politicians who saw their prospects in the West, came out with appeals for rapprochement with the West, for almost allied relations with the West. Today, China is disappointed in this, China feels that the West is waging a powerful war against the development of China, the Chinese are well aware that a strike on Libya, a strike on Syria, on Iran is an arrow launched towards China. He is being squeezed out of this zone, trying to limit influence, being squeezed out from the African continent, today we see such latent fights against China’s expansion into the Latin American continent, the Americans are increasing their presence in the Strait of Malacca, in the South China Sea.

Now Bush’s announcement of a proposal to create a single transatlantic zone on trade between North America and Europe is to create a powerful economy to counter the Chinese economy, and they are trying to do the same in the Pacific zone. The Chinese understand that in the fight against the united West not only by states, but also by large world finances, he will not cope alone, he needs long-term allies, and China sees Russia as an ally of 21 century as its main ally.

Question: You said that China was "squeezed out" from the zone of possible influence, but do you think China has a definite plan of action in the region after the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan?

Leonid Ivashov: Of course, China has some options, but still it will not cope alone. On the one hand, it is a powerful country with a dynamically developing economy, with a huge GDP, but on the other hand, China today has many weaknesses. Including overpopulation, lack of resources, and it is getting worse every year, so China will now, with the new leader, actively form Chinese-centric Asia so that the countries of the Asia-Pacific region are in alliance with China. China has a strong position for this: the Chinese diasporas in these countries, despite their small numbers, dominate at least in the economy, which means that they can also influence politics. But Russia does not need to go "under China", Russia needs to build its configuration of forces. The same Iran - it is necessary to radically change our attitude towards Iran; India is the same - it should be our main economic and political partner, and here in this space there is a balance of power, a balance of interests, this will allow us to survive, at least. Today we are jerking between east and west, as a result we get pressure from the east and from the west.

Question: Will the United States in every way prevent China from creating China-centric Asia? What are your predictions about the US position in Central Asia?

Leonid Ivashov: This is their old dream - to control Eurasia - not through Russia, because now it snorts and wants independence, the Americans are beginning to work hard in the Central Asian region, they are trying to tear away other countries from Russia. With Uzbekistan, they do it; the second is to embroil so that countries live like the Arab East in a conflict state, they are then one by one easier to manage, because the US will provoke a revolution.

Question: As for China’s close neighbors - Japan? The Japanese prime minister accuses China of the fact that the latter is building its patriotism on anti-Japanese sentiment, that the open economy of China is pushing it towards the sea and making Beijing aggressive. Should we expect a deterioration and so not too friendly relations between neighbors?

Leonid Ivashov: In fact, Japan is beginning to look for ways of rapprochement with China, in general, this is not bad. The Japanese are well aware that America abandoned Japan, sometime after World War II, she was dragging Japan, but today Japan is a big economic competitor for the United States. Japan has a strong influence in the Asia-Pacific region, and the Americans are trying to dominate there. From the economic point of view, the Chinese need to support the “enemy syndrome” in society, they have too close economic ties with the Americans, they act cautiously in this regard, but to draw the image of the enemy from Japan is important for patriotism.

There will be a certain transformation of the Communist Party itself, the communist ideology, which is proceeding, but still slowly, will acquire a traditional Confucian character. On the other hand, while quarreling with Japan, implicitly, the Japanese and the Chinese will look for such prospects for their joint survival that Russia has the opportunity to be some kind of arbiter. Do not forget that the Japanese are living in constant fear of extinction - several such tsunamis, like the last one, will repeat, and the existence of Japan as a state will be in question.
Question: Do you think that China can lose Japanese and other foreign investments if it continues its aggressive policy - what makes the Prime Minister of Japan scared China?

Leonid Ivashov: Yes, China is not afraid of loss of investment! China has a huge gold and foreign exchange reserve, they have powerful state planning, plus a huge export from China. The only thing that scares Chinese economists is the possibility of a recession in general, what is happening in America. Then the Chinese factory will produce surplus goods that will not be able to go to other markets. And investments, especially production investments, are not the main thing for China now, they tried to put surplus of their products on the domestic market, but they cannot go there, because they need currency.

Question: But now, apart from the obstacles that the West is building for China, there are also accusations of cyber espionage? How do you assess the relationship of America and China in this regard? Is there a cyberwar threat?

Leonid Ivashov: You understand that when Americans come up with something like this for other countries or for all of humanity, they first launch an information and psychological attack, as it was in Yugoslavia. The fact that they, it seems, felt sorry for the Albanians, they invaded there, it became a shame to the Shiites - they destroyed the state of Iraq, then they destroyed Libya - for this they come up with everything. After all, today the Pentagon created cyber command, where the staff number is just crazy - 4 thousand, and most of the cyber command units are classified. Secret people, secret actions, that is, the Americans are launching this war in order to justify their activities, they need to find some kind of mythical threat. Cyberwar is coming - and it must be admitted, it was the Americans who organized and launched it, but now we need to find a scapegoat.

Here China and need to unite with Russia. By the way, according to our data, at the Pentagon there are 15 Russian young guys somewhere, but this is only from verified data, most likely there are much more of them. Chinese people work there, they look for such people, take them away, secret them, and they work. It must be said that Russian youth now have much more potential for these cyberwarfare than even the Chinese. Therefore, here some kind of agreement on countering cyber attacks is necessary, it is necessary to unite efforts, we cannot stand alone against the united West in such areas. We need to unite for the purpose of our security.
Author:
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  1. predator.3
    predator.3 27 March 2013 17: 00 New
    19
    Leonid Ivashov: China Sees Russia as an Ally of 21 Century

    God forbid, but the powder must be kept dry, as they say, Friendship is friendship, and the tobacco is apart!
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 27 March 2013 18: 21 New
      11
      Quote: predator.3
      Leonid Ivashov: China Sees Russia as an Ally of 21 Century

      China sees in Russia primarily as a supplier of raw materials.
      We export to China, but in essence we exchange for products made in China, oil - 20 million tons, coal - 10.5 million tons, roundwood - for 2 mln. Dollars, metals - 30 thousand tons, electricity - 2 mln. kW
      If we suppose Russia reduces the export of raw materials by half and replaces Chinese imports of consumer goods with its own production, China will face a situation close to an economic collapse.
      Therefore, a situation where the production of goods in Russia does not develop to China is only to the advantage. China will try to keep Russia in this status with all its might, the development of Russia is not beneficial for it, as for everyone else.
      1. esaul
        esaul 27 March 2013 19: 31 New
        11
        Quote: baltika-18

        hi colleague. Loved your comment. good I absolutely agree that stories about selfless friendship are for children at night, before going to bed. The Chinese have not very sickly absorbed the charm of their superiority in many areas, and it is not for nothing that the last congress proclaimed a "all-China unifying idea" to revive and strengthen the Chinese spirit.
        Well, all means are good to achieve the goal. You can also play nice with Russia in order to get certain advantages from this. Friendship with China is good. But it's better to be friends with a grenade in your pocket. Nuclear. So that the slanting neighbor, in the event of another unplanned "Cultural Revolution", would not be impatient to encroach on some more plots of Russian land. wink
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 27 March 2013 20: 05 New
          +6
          Quote: esaul
          But it’s better to be friends with a grenade in your pocket. Nuclear.

          That's right, Valery.
          I don’t understand people who are ready to rush thoughtlessly into any open arms. In a modern world based on the principle of profit, there simply cannot be real allies and friends, everything is temporary.
        2. Su24
          Su24 28 March 2013 01: 33 New
          +2
          You guys, obviously, are better versed in international relations than professional general Ivashov. Well done, keep it up! With paranoia to visit a neighbor, with a fig in your pocket, we shake hands.
      2. vadson
        vadson 27 March 2013 19: 41 New
        +3
        What situation are you talking about economic collapse? in a parallel branch it says: The main purpose of Xi Jinping’s visit was to expand Chinese purchases of Russian hydrocarbons. Today, Russia provides 6% of oil supplies to China. Mostly China purchases it in Saudi Arabia.
        if we cut in half - it's only THREE PERCENT, what collapse are you talking about?
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 27 March 2013 20: 14 New
          +3
          Quote: vadson
          if we cut it in half, it's only THREE PERCENT, what crash are you talking about?

          You did not carefully read the comment.
          If we replace Chinese consumer goods with our own production.
          Look at the structure of Russian-Chinese export-import. And everything will be clear to you.
          1. vadson
            vadson 27 March 2013 20: 46 New
            +2
            in 2012, about 88 billion it seems, we occupy the ninth place in terms of turnover, so there is not a very big loss
          2. old rocket man
            old rocket man 27 March 2013 23: 08 New
            +3
            Quote: baltika-18
            If we replace Chinese consumer goods with our own production

            That's it, if. If the key word. The state of our light industry is none, it simply is not. And where are you going to produce industrial consumer goods, all this electronics and household appliances, when our defense industry is suffocating from a lack of space and labor?
            First, you will have to revive the vocational education and machine tool industry, but along the way to challenge the kids so that there is someone to work
      3. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 27 March 2013 21: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: baltika-18
        If we suppose Russia reduces the export of raw materials by half and replaces Chinese imports of consumer goods with its own production, China will face a situation close to an economic collapse.

        You are probably confusing something, associating the country as under the Soviet Union, as a whole, but they deliver (more precisely, some companies sell raw materials to China for nothing, and manufactured goods are imported from China by others) and this is profitable, and from the development of Russian light industry first of all, our traders of all ranks who have good headstock on cheap and low-quality (not always) consumer goods will howl. That's when this non-patriotic pack of freebie lovers wakes up a conscience, then in China there will be a crisis, but not for long (after all, it is not for nothing that they dress and put on the whole world).
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 27 March 2013 21: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: alexandr00070
          You are probably confusing something, associating the country as under the Soviet Union, as a whole, but they are supplying (more precisely, some companies sell raw materials to China for a reason, while manufactured goods are imported from China by others

          Through the dollar, the relationship was more than direct. Oil, timber went, dollars came to the state, the company bought dollars, and bought Chinese goods on them, sold for rubles, bought dollars again and went on the cycle. The same barter only through dollars.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 27 March 2013 21: 56 New
            +5
            Quote: baltika-18
            Through the dollar, the relationship was more than direct. Oil, timber went, dollars came to the state, the company bought dollars, and bought Chinese goods on them, sold for rubles, bought dollars again and went on the cycle. The same barter only through dollars.




            Quote: baltika-18
            If we suppose Russia reduces the export of raw materials by half and replaces Chinese imports of consumer goods with its own production,


            I’m just about the fact that it is unrealistic to reduce (although you just assumed), the greed of traders knows no bounds, some will sell resources cheaply, just to snatch. others will buy poisonous toys and fertilizers because they are cheaper to snatch and they think about Russia last
      4. de klermon
        de klermon 27 March 2013 21: 40 New
        +1
        Right!) Have you noticed who transferred their production to China for 20-30 years with a persistence worthy of a better application? And who is now going to drag him back in the framework of various programs of "reindustrialization" in order to somehow reduce their unemployment? Here's a turn for the Chinese ... As they say: thanks to this house, let's go to another!)) It's not just about oil and gas with forests! How much do we cry that there are a lot of ideas (including in science and in production), but with the implementation of not much money, then there is no money, then the staff pumped up (otherwise they are not left at all)? So there were candidates for the development of the ideological potential!))) On our energy carriers!)
        1. 755962
          755962 28 March 2013 00: 53 New
          +2
          What if ...
          The leaders of the so-called BRIC countries - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - during the annual summit, which begins in the South African city of Durban, intend to approve the creation of a new development bank.


          BRICS countries whose total reserves are $ 4,4 trillion, and make up 43 percent of the world's population We would like to get more power in the field of global finance, which is consistent with their growing economic power. They called for a capital restructuring of the World Bank and the IMF, established in 1944 in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, and oppose the practice of selecting presidents of these organizations only from the United States or Europe.

          “If they announce BRICS Bank, it will be something”, wrote Goldman Sachs Asset Management Chairman Jim O'Neill in an e-mail in response to questions on March 15.

          http://mixednews.ru/archives/33813
  2. Asgard
    Asgard 27 March 2013 17: 00 New
    +3
    China....
    On the one hand, this nation is not an enemy and not a warrior is "biorobots" ..
    On the other hand, an extremely controlled biological mass ...

    Now look-developing at a frantic pace, some statistics are closed, are famous for their "replicas", they themselves did not come up with anything, Suddenly, as a team, all economies invested precisely in China, not to India, Bangladesh, Vietnam (countries with cheap labor)))

    Here It mean they raise ENEMY и ALL..

    And the Chinese themselves do not understand this (however, not all Russians can grasp it with their mind)))
    1. Asgard
      Asgard 27 March 2013 17: 38 New
      17
      Germany .... after the 1st world
      A poor country, after the war, devastated and Suddenly begins to develop at a frantic pace, The growth of industry, military potential, Wealthy entrepreneurs, finances appeared))), began to create reserves of oil and rare metals (on its territory)) Total Discipline (just like in China)))
      Our specialists, by the way, did not consider Germany an enemy, they went there with pleasure, shared secrets with the fraternal German people)))))

      These are the Parallels .... And in the air it smells of war (doesn't even smell-It stinks))
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 27 March 2013 22: 40 New
        +3
        Quote: Asgard
        Here Such Parallels .... And in the air it smells of war (it doesn’t even smell - it STinks


        Well you give! (and Baltic and Yesaul) or interested?
        What are the parallels?
        Like in chess! Yes, they have gray matter! Although not very much, but there is - I'm sure! A caution of the Chinese to go nuts.
        And the memory is great!
        Oh, you are pumping!

        But, on a bare spot, build barricades ...
      2. nakaz
        nakaz 27 March 2013 22: 44 New
        -1
        I hasten to disappoint. If we and China will have a war, then only nuclear.
        And then there will be a nuclear winter on our planet Earth and the survivors will envy the dead.
      3. Black
        Black 27 March 2013 23: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Asgard
        Our specialists, by the way, did not consider Germany an enemy, they went there with pleasure, shared secrets with the fraternal German people))))

        As always, you are accurate in your comments. Nothing is "casual". Today's China is the fruit revived by the United States to our destruction, but overdid it a bit. The genie didn't fit in the bottle.
        But there are certain differences. USSR and Germany were forced to make friends and enrich each other with technologies, (mainly they are us), military cooperation.
        Russia at present can be quite self-sufficient and focusing only on China or Europe or India will be a mistake.
        1. Su24
          Su24 28 March 2013 01: 47 New
          -2
          I look and wonder how much nonsense in the heads of our men. From your reasoning, we must conclude that the United States is specifically pushing China to conquer Eurasia. And what is the benefit to the United States itself? Or do amers want only an endless war between Russia and China? And then what is the benefit of this to China?
          1. Bigriver
            Bigriver 28 March 2013 05: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: Su24
            I look and wonder how much nonsense in the heads of our men. From your reasoning, we must conclude that the United States is specifically pushing China to conquer Eurasia.

            Strikingly different.
            The movement of China towards Russia is not confirmed by any facts.
            But people claiming this point blank do not see the facts of the reverse movement - the creeping, very slow expansion of China to the south :)
      4. DeerIvanovich
        DeerIvanovich 28 March 2013 19: 30 New
        0
        Yes, I wrote more than once about this, but there’s no other way, DV they temporarily cover up for the time being, and during this time it is necessary to restore defenses, given the problems with the south
    2. Su24
      Su24 28 March 2013 01: 41 New
      -1
      Like you, for example. You also cannot embrace normal logic with your "mind".
  3. Son
    Son 27 March 2013 17: 09 New
    +1
    Smart uncle, smart ...
  4. erased
    erased 27 March 2013 17: 09 New
    +5
    Perhaps here I do not agree with the author in everything. Of course, China needs at some stage cooperation with the Russian Federation. But in the end, he needs land and resources. And for them he is ready to fight. Including with the Russian Federation.
    So it is necessary to trade and play friends, but also to increase the grouping of forces in the Far East, too, should immediately. And be ready at any time to fight back.
    And besides doing something with the actual Sinanization of the Far Eastern region. Otherwise, it will not be the fifth, but the sixth, tenth, hundredth columns, sabotage army in the rear.
    1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 27 March 2013 17: 32 New
      +2
      They have enough land, and it’s easier to buy resources than to take from a neighbor, the cost will be prohibitive. We must be friends with them, otherwise we will be devoured separately.
  5. JonnyT
    JonnyT 27 March 2013 17: 09 New
    21
    China will perish without Russia, as will Russia without China. Mutually beneficial cooperation will benefit both parties. And when the main world competitors are defeated, then the confrontation with China will begin. In any case, in the future, Russia and China will have "problems" in relations. Now our goals and priorities coincide in many ways. However, each of the parties will pull "the blanket of benefits upon itself." Unfortunately, the era of "fraternization" of peoples and eternal friendship has passed without profit. there was only devilish capitalism, in which such concepts as the world of labor may be impossible in principle!
    1. sergius60
      sergius60 27 March 2013 18: 30 New
      +5
      "Brotherhood of Nations"? The PRC returned EVERYTHING on loans under the Generalissimo! Not to be confused with "Brezhnev's generosity." If you respect the work of your people, you help, but you don't encourage HALYAVCHIKOV. smile
    2. Suhov
      Suhov 27 March 2013 21: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: JonnyT
      there was only a damn capitalism, in which such concepts as world labor may not be possible in principle!

      History moves in a spiral, will return: Peace, Labor and May!

      Spring ... First knees timidly make their way from under the skirts ...
      wassat
    3. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 27 March 2013 22: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: JonnyT
      Now our goals and priorities coincide in many respects.


      That's right! And what will happen - THEN, but who knows?
      For all occasions in life, are you really safe?
    4. Su24
      Su24 28 March 2013 02: 30 New
      -1
      Do not share the skins of a dead herd of tyrannosaurs.
  6. Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich 27 March 2013 17: 21 New
    +5
    The friendly rhetoric of the wise men of the United States can deceive our rulers, but China looks and sees far away and is not so easy to deceive.
    1. sergius60
      sergius60 27 March 2013 18: 22 New
      +6
      GDP to cheat? Fear God. When was pathological idiocy the criterion for selection in the "office"? A la-la to the audience ... It's not even funny. "You will be judged by deeds ..." A universal criterion of analysis, however.
  7. savoj
    savoj 27 March 2013 17: 26 New
    15
    The Slavs will always be alone ....... both in a fight and in friendship.
  8. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 27 March 2013 17: 28 New
    +2
    "they tried to put their surplus products on the domestic market, but they won't be able to go there, because they need currency."

    And here is the answer! Currency is RMB! America and Europe are straining and going .. rest with a marching step.
    Today, by the way, they talked in South Africa about the first 100 lard in yi.
  9. klavyr
    klavyr 27 March 2013 17: 32 New
    +4
    the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so we will be friends with the Chinese against the west yes
  10. DimychAs
    DimychAs 27 March 2013 17: 40 New
    +5
    To be friends, but do not let go of the stick.
  11. WS
    WS 27 March 2013 17: 40 New
    +5
    Recently I watched the national geographic channel how animals kill each other in the struggle for food and a place in the sun, and some just for the sake of the game.
    In my opinion, something similar is happening in our "civilized" World.
    1. Fregate
      Fregate 27 March 2013 20: 11 New
      +1
      That is how it is.
  12. Odysseus
    Odysseus 27 March 2013 17: 49 New
    +6
    While Russia is in such, to put it mildly, a poor state of affairs, it is best to treat the PRC as the PRC treated the USSR in the 40s and early 60s. That is, as a "younger brother" to an "elder". This will allow us to sit behind our backs. from China in its confrontation with the West and get the reserve of time we need.
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 27 March 2013 21: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Odyssey
      This will allow us to sit behind .....

      The British are taking advantage of this ...
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 27 March 2013 22: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: Sukhov
        The British are taking advantage of this ...

        And not only. The Chinese themselves took advantage of this. Although they consider other peoples to be "barbarians" and themselves as a "middle" empire, although there is 5000 years of history behind them, but still the Chinese Communists, when they came to power, were able to conduct a very flexible Politics. The Stalinist USSR was treated as a "big brother", saying that the Soviets are our teachers. They distanced themselves from the Khrushchev-Brezhnev USSR in time and skillfully played on the contradictions between the USSR and the USA.
        It would not be a sin for us to learn such sanity.
  13. Alikovo
    Alikovo 27 March 2013 17: 53 New
    0
    Quote: klavyr
    the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so we will be friends with the Chinese against the west
  14. mizantropi
    mizantropi 27 March 2013 17: 59 New
    -4
    God forbid from such "friends"! Hunghuza is perhaps the most terrible threat to Russia (not counting the possible mutual destruction of the Russian Federation and the United States in a war with the use of nuclear weapons).
  15. Algor73
    Algor73 27 March 2013 18: 16 New
    0
    Well, China will not be an ally. There are no common interests (to fight against the West does not count, since this is competition, not a struggle), but there are enough common claims. So far, China cannot do without Russia, without its technologies. But this is a temporary phenomenon. China has already grown out of its size. It is already muscling its muscles. Russia is also a superpower. In the near future, these two states will set the world "fashion". But I doubt they'll sit on the same chair
  16. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 27 March 2013 18: 23 New
    +5
    Ivashov is a very wise man. China and Russia can be together as temporary allies against the United States and NATO, and then ..... it is easy to guess.
    1. the polar
      the polar 27 March 2013 19: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Ruslan_F38
      Ivashov is a very wise man. China and Russia can be together as temporary allies against the United States and NATO, and then ..... it is easy to guess.


      This "wise man" last year talked about the "Chinese threat" to Russia ... He is still a "strategist"
  17. Urrry
    Urrry 27 March 2013 18: 24 New
    +2
    Hmm, China fussed about in time looking for allies for itself, understands that the crisis in the West and the United States will make the latter look thoughtfully in his direction: "what if ...? There you can take away foreign exchange reserves, and write off credit debt, and gold China has! " :)
    Well, and about the extraordinary military power of China Kakbe, his war in the 79th with small Vietnam showed that there isn’t such power there ..
    1. kaprall
      kaprall 27 March 2013 20: 18 New
      0
      Since then, much has changed in China, especially military equipment. I do not think that in Vietnam the changes are just as adequate. China sees in us only a raw material source, and, naturally, an ally for the UN Security Council. The pace of military development is not comparable with ours. Already now they have made the replacement of IL-76, though so far with our motors, but what prevents them from surpassing it. No need to go far for examples
  18. maestro123
    maestro123 27 March 2013 18: 33 New
    +9
    The best and most reliable ally is OUR ARMY! soldier
  19. andrei332809
    andrei332809 27 March 2013 18: 38 New
    +2
    that China is claiming an alliance is not a bad thing. but Russia's strong inclination towards China did not seem to turn Hinduism away from us. they have a carve-up going on between themselves, and China wants to chop off a couple of "pieces"
  20. pogis
    pogis 27 March 2013 19: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: Asgard
    Our specialists, by the way, did not consider Germany an enemy, they went there with pleasure, shared secrets with the fraternal German people)))))

    Like them to us!
  21. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 27 March 2013 19: 11 New
    +3
    The Russian Federation for China is a raw materials appendage and a temporarily lost territory, as far as I remember, they sharpen their eyes on the Far East.
    1. Aleks28
      Aleks28 27 March 2013 19: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: Krasnoyarets
      RF for China is a raw materials appendage and temporarily lost territory,

      And when did you say that China lost these territories? request
      1. d.gksueyjd
        d.gksueyjd 27 March 2013 19: 53 New
        -3
        Since the "drunken" of the USSR
        1. stray
          stray 29 March 2013 20: 25 New
          0
          you yourself, a lousy drunkard, and Boris Germans are the same as you,. smelly, bugger.
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 27 March 2013 20: 43 New
        0
        Under Mao, graters began regarding the Nerchinsk Treaty, and so on.
    2. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 27 March 2013 21: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: Krasnoyarets
      temporarily lost territory, as far as I remember, they sharpen their eyes on the Far East.

      this territory was not once their
  22. Fastblast
    Fastblast 27 March 2013 19: 46 New
    +3
    Quote: Asgard
    Germany .... after the 1st world
    A poor country, after the war, devastated and Suddenly begins to develop at a frantic pace, The growth of industry, military potential, Wealthy entrepreneurs, finances appeared))), began to create reserves of oil and rare metals (on its territory)) Total Discipline (just like in China)))
    Our specialists, by the way, did not consider Germany an enemy, they went there with pleasure, shared secrets with the fraternal German people)))))

    These are the Parallels .... And in the air it smells of war (doesn't even smell-It stinks))

    Moreover, the USSR actively supplied Germany with food and raw materials ...

    As if the second time not to goof off ...
    1. morpex
      morpex 27 March 2013 21: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: Fastblast
      Moreover, the USSR actively supplied Germany with food and raw materials ...

      That's it. Food. And China, China, fuses cutting-edge technologies at bargain prices, just cut the dough for an easy one and salt the Americans. They don’t have time to implement anything for themselves and give it to the Chinese. Ohh! Then it all comes out sideways.
  23. SPACE
    SPACE 27 March 2013 19: 59 New
    +1
    Come on in politics there are no friends, only temporary allies and offering it to us, they think also, everything is as old as the world. Well, it's better to keep them close to yourself than push them into the arms of the United States. There is a time for everything, but what you need to trust is only on your own strength.
  24. stray
    stray 27 March 2013 20: 25 New
    +4
    You know, the site has ceased to be interesting for discussion. some field marshals are talking to each other, dissenters were suppressed by their own households, articles of specialists are becoming less and less. You’ve been hanging out with you guys, you’re not working well. I’m leaving the site. especially since admins have nowhere to write. site admins got used to their address.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 27 March 2013 21: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: vagabond
      You know, the site has ceased to be interesting for discussion. some field marshals are talking to each other, dissenters were suppressed by their own households, articles of specialists are becoming less and less. You’ve been hanging out with you guys, you’re not working well. I’m leaving the site. especially since admins have nowhere to write. site admins got used to their address.

      and after the reorganization, I didn’t see the video, I didn’t see the flags with which country you’re talking, before it was at least clear that mostly foreign countries are discussing Russian topics, and now the Kazakh and Ukrainian are arguing (figuratively) about the history of Russia and don’t see the main national features in assessing events, hence the transitions to personalities, insults, and so I looked at the flag and it is clear why a person is far from the truth, or whose interests he defends. So the site’s TOLERANCE didn’t benefit him, correctly noted
      1. morpex
        morpex 27 March 2013 22: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: alexandr00070
        You know, the site has ceased to be interesting for discussion.

        Quote: alexandr00070
        So the site’s TOLERANCE didn’t benefit him

        And I will support you in this !!! Previously, it was much more interesting. And now the site has become one-sided. Any former insults are allowed to the address of the former USSR countries, any point of view of the admins and moderators of the site is correct, other opinions are mercilessly criticized or even deleted. Have they changed the main admin? Now does the KGB steer?
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 27 March 2013 23: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: morpex
          Do they have that the main admin has changed? Now does the KGB steer?

          It doesn't look like the KGB, everything is too clumsy, but on the whole I agree with you, the level of material and discussion has dropped dramatically, the kitchen dilentantism of "marshals from the people" prevails. A good company commander does not always become a good regiment commander, especially if higher.
          As they say to a locksmith locksmith. stop
      2. stray
        stray 29 March 2013 19: 53 New
        0
        Yes, it’s worth reorganizing
  25. Vladimir 70
    Vladimir 70 27 March 2013 20: 29 New
    +1
    Basically, the aggressor came to us from the West. If there was an aggressor from the South or East, then anyway the ears of the Anglo-Saxons stuck behind him.
  26. stranik72
    stranik72 27 March 2013 20: 33 New
    +5
    .. "By the way, our specialists did not consider Germany an enemy, they went there with pleasure, shared secrets with the fraternal German people)))))
    About sharing secrets, is it like a joke? Remember why Tupolev "sat down"
    so what was not there wasn’t.

    "Moreover, the USSR actively supplied Germany with food and raw materials."
    And another historical fact, when concluding a contract for the supply of ore, ours, using inaccuracies in the contract, supplied very poor quality ore.
    Therefore, Hitler even tried to let those who participated in the drafting of the treaty through the Gestapo, but the surnames were aristocratic so it did not work out, there were other deliveries of the same kind, so our ancestors knew who they were dealing with. I hope that the current leaders do not goof off.
  27. varyag
    varyag 27 March 2013 20: 42 New
    +1
    Friendship with a continental border neighbor like China should be an end in itself. How can you build trust? Question. These are always reciprocal counter moves - on this we will check with the Celestial Empire. But the understanding of Russia and China that they are preparing for something overseas! Do not forget that there are decisive "chosen by God" and Anglo-Saxon arrogance, by the way, in this capacity, it has never lost. They have met in history with a firm rebuff. True, before this new story, only they had a bottomless wallet and bombs. And this was the basis for any "fifth column" in the enemy camp. I am sure that they will now follow this path. And we will meet them here! With our poplars and the Chinese yuan.
  28. Alexej.Taran
    Alexej.Taran 27 March 2013 20: 52 New
    0
    The right way to go comrades.
    1. stray
      stray 29 March 2013 19: 58 New
      0
      let you go, talking nonsense about nothing.
  29. escobar
    escobar 27 March 2013 21: 26 New
    0
    Russia alone will not be able to confront Europe, amers and their satellites. They have in their hands all the financial instruments, military power, etc. It is necessary and very important to make friends and trade with China. But do not give slack in any aspects of the relationship. This slack will be instantly filled with enemy sperm. It's not that the Chinese are so insidious and evil-it is a law of nature.
  30. vlad63
    vlad63 27 March 2013 21: 27 New
    +2
    The nature of things is invariable - "be friends with your neighbor, but don't take off the wattle fence" (Russian proverb)
  31. Metlik
    Metlik 27 March 2013 21: 38 New
    +2
    As history shows, in world wars the one who stays away from the battle wins. America rose a lot, selling weapons and buying gold during world wars. Maybe we should think about how not to get into a showdown between the USA and China?
    1. wax
      wax 27 March 2013 22: 56 New
      0
      Yes, while we are the target of the United States. And we need allies: China, India, Vietnam .. - in Asia, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua ... - on the American continent, Iran.
  32. fenix57
    fenix57 27 March 2013 21: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: baltika-18
    Look at the structure of Russian-Chinese export-import. And you will understand everything

    Exactly. What I wrote about not so long ago. Reminiscent of the phrase from the TV series "Deadly Power" from Dukalis: "This is our cow and we milk it." It's a shame, you know ... Yes, and I will repeat myself - we must not forget about India and Vietnam, China - good, but it hurts their speech is flattering. And flattery is relaxing. hi
  33. gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 27 March 2013 22: 17 New
    +2
    The situation with China resembles the 39th year of the Union - Germany. Sucking friendship. Usually in front of a strong swagger. In addition, let us recall how the economy and military power of a collapsed Germany grew and compare the dynamics of the impoverishment of the impoverished China into leaders throughout. Refined Europe could not break Russia in 41-45. Burdens, hunger, big sacrifices, psychology, the destruction of cities - the reasons why they could not do it (not all). And this is exactly what China is not afraid of, and maybe even hungry for. Extra hardened, reckless people in bulk. Nearby are vast territories and wealth, where people find a problem, not something to capture.
    So from China, the ally is only tactical. And a strategic enemy. How not to twist.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 28 March 2013 06: 02 New
      -1
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      The situation with China resembles the 39th year of the Union - Germany. Sucking friendship. Usually in front of a strong swagger. In addition, let us recall how the economy and military power of a collapsed Germany grew and compare the dynamics of the impoverishment of the impoverished China to leaders all over ...

      We did not have a passionate friendship with Germany. And there was a forced Non-Aggression Pact. Both the political and military elite of the USSR understood perfectly well that he was temporary, gaining "time". The myth of friendship was raised by the Yakovlev perestroika propaganda in the late 80s - early 90s.
      And if you look in more detail - how and due to what the German economy grew and compare this process with the growth of China, you will get not parallels, but perpendiculars.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 28 March 2013 11: 25 New
        0
        Quote: BigRiver
        We did not have a passionate friendship with Germany. And there was a forced Non-Aggression Pact. Both the political and military elite of the USSR understood perfectly well that he was temporary, gaining "time".

        How old are you? Are you unlikely to be a contemporary of those events? Therefore, you should not express your opinion so categorically. There was military, technical, scientific, economic cooperation. You can call it whatever you like, but the facts are as follows. Do we have a "temporary" or permanent agreement with China now? laughing Suggested land, forest, minerals, electricity for next to nothing. Cheaper than Russians buy. Is this not a time delay?
        Quote: BigRiver
        And if you look in more detail - how and due to what the German economy grew and compare this process with the growth of China, you will get not parallels, but perpendiculars.

        Yes, even a parallelogram. The result is important. Before the Second World War, Germany has a powerful, growing economy, industry, and army. China has also reached that line. Only then was the line on the Neman River, and now on the Amur.
  34. Aeneas
    Aeneas 28 March 2013 00: 27 New
    +5
    it's not that simple with China ... Of course, China is not an ally of the West. The West is hindering the development of China's military and political aspirations; moreover, China has found itself in a semi-circle of historical ill-wishers: Japan, Vietnam, India. China has found an ally, Pakistan, which itself is internally disorganized and unreliable. China is very dependent on resources and raw materials, and China seeks its interests in Africa and the Middle East, but America controls sea communications. And then China has a jackpot - Russia! A huge space overflowing with raw materials. But Russia is no longer willing to give resources for free. Therefore, the Chinese offer other "nishtyaks" - foreign policy cooperation and loyalty, plus purchases of Russian weapons, which can no longer be perceived as a necessity, but as a Chinese bonus for Russia. The last contract - two dozen Su-35s and four submarines are more like a mockery, for they are a drop in the sea of ​​Chinese weapons. Well, and China has begun expansion into the zone of Russian interests - Central Asia, this is very important! The Chinese can politically speculate on Turkmen gas in front of Gazprom. But China earns money in the West, and lends to the West by buying credit papers printed in Washington. And he will buy, because he is afraid of strengthening his yuan, and the current system allows the Chinese industrial and scientific base to really develop. And this will continue for a long time, until China grows that way by 4 times, and can throw a real challenge. But even then the West still has many trump cards in its hands, and the shuttle diplomacy is always "prepared" for a Kissanger, since China with its CPC, in comparison with Russia, is the offspring of wild Capitalism, where there are no pensions, social services, health care for most citizens. In China, there is no internationalism (tell Uyghurs or Tibetans), but there is the nationalism of the Han people. Stalin was correct in comparing Mao to radishes, which are red on the outside, but white on the inside.
  35. VadimSt
    VadimSt 28 March 2013 01: 53 New
    +2
    "Rassharkatsya in eternal friendship" is possible and probably necessary, but the situational component in relations with China will always be ahead of long-term promises and aspirations. Without a doubt, China adheres to a similar concept.
    In any case, Russia and China are already using, and will continue to, squeeze the maximum out of mutual cooperation in order to counter the West and defend their national interests.
    Do not take advantage of the situation, it will be stupid and may affect the later stages!
  36. Egor
    Egor 28 March 2013 04: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Alikovo
    Quote: klavyr
    the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so we will be friends with the Chinese against the west

    Already friends! Taman remember sir? To cooperate is one thing, but to be friends - if you please, sir!
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 28 March 2013 06: 28 New
      +8
      I remember Damansky and the Taman Panzer Division in Bikin, I also remember. And I remember the armored train, which was 300 meters from my house. It is a pity that many forgot about it ...
  37. Tartary
    Tartary 28 March 2013 05: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: nick 1 and 2
    Well you give! (and Baltic and Yesaul) or interested?

    Quote: nakaz
    Oh, you are pumping!
    But, on a bare spot, build barricades ...

    I agree with you.
    It’s not necessary with a fig in your pocket, as one colleague wrote above, to even begin to build a NEW relationship. It doesn’t matter with the raw material aspect or the spiritual and moral ... After all, it is very clear why and why it is extremely necessary to consolidate two or three, etc. third-party efforts ... Anglo-Saxons will not joke, if they feel their moment ...
    To start a NEW friendship with a stone, and even more so with a grenade in your bosom, is at least stupid.
    But open arms, too, do not imply a sharp concentration of power, if suddenly "force majeure" in a relationship ...
    Therefore, I think that it is necessary to build NEW relations, in modern conditions, smoothly and without nerves, on a trusting basis ... Otherwise, each of the partners will feel "getting on". This means that at any difficult moment, he can jump to the side.
    Only in peace is confidence gained, which means - POWER.
  38. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 28 March 2013 06: 25 New
    +7
    Now there is no friendship as such between states. And it never existed, just "friends" with a strong state. And with all these "friendships" you need to keep your ear on the alert!
  39. stray
    stray 29 March 2013 20: 16 New
    0
    Dear General Ivashov. only Russians are found on this site, in any case, people who love their homeland. My homeland is the USSR., Take care of yourself, God grant you health. take care of yourself.