Military Review

Kazakhstan is great, but Russians have nowhere to retreat

213
Kazakhstan is great, but Russians have nowhere to retreat

The incident with the monument to Panfilov's heroes in Kazakhstan - as a “marker” of the problems of the Russian population in this country


The authorities of the Kazakh city of Alma-Ata want to remove from the monument to the Panfilov’s heroes the phrase of well-known political instructor Vasily Klochkov: “Russia is great, but there is no place to retreat. Behind Moscow! ”, A number of Russian and Kazakh media published such reports. According to these reports, it was planned to replace the inscription with one of the others, for example: “The feat of Kazakhstanis is a heritage for the people, an example for generations”, “Eternal peace to the heroes of Kazakhstanis!” And “The feat of Kazakhstanis who fought for their Motherland will be remembered forever.”

As a result, it turned out that the Almaty city council of veterans headed by Yerengyip Shaikhutdinov became the initiator of this idea.

However, after some time, a refutation came out in which Kazakh officials said they did not plan to change the inscription on the memorial, and Erengaip Shaikhutdinov explained that there was no initiative to replace the well-known expression of political instructor Klochkov. According to Shaikhutdinov, the council of veterans only wanted to add one of the inscriptions in order to perpetuate the memory of the people of Kazakhstan who took part in the Great Patriotic War.
And although the incident was settled, it was not possible to avoid public resonance. Moreover, there is a strong suspicion that it was precisely because of this resonance that the decision to replace the inscription was never made.

The Window to Russia project decided to find out what our compatriots living in Kazakhstan are thinking about this incident.

The editor-in-chief of the Russian in Kazakhstan website, Ilya Namovir, believes that “in principle, история with the monument to the heroes of Panfilov is not so surprising and atypical. Rather the opposite. Such initiatives, aimed at erasing our memory of our common past in the USSR from the memory of Kazakhstan, steeped in the spirit of historical revisionism for the sake of the national situation, are not uncommon.

It just so happened that this particular proposal of a certain Mr. Shaikhutdinov was publicized in the media and now, of course, taking into account the public resonance caused, it is unlikely to be implemented, which is confirmed by the words of the head of the cultural department Yerbolat Auezov, who assured that this issue “didn’t even discussed. " But this is a given case, and how many such proposals go to municipal and other bodies, and how many of them are being quietly implemented? Monuments disappear, streets are renamed. In connection with the abolition of the moratorium on renaming, I believe, the question of renaming Petropavlovsk, Pavlodar, Ust-Kamenogorsk will emerge again. ”

Ilya Namovir also stressed that “in the new amendments to the law on onomasticism, of course, it is said that the question of renaming will be submitted for consideration only if it is supported by the residents of this or that locality. But where is the guarantee that a story similar to the renaming of the Shchuchinsky district to Burabai Audany a few years ago will not happen again? Residents of this area from the onomastic commission learned that, it turns out, 81% of them support this renaming, although it was found out during polls of residents that none of them participated in gatherings and did not vote “for” or “against” and, in general, I was not aware that similar gatherings of residents were held.

In addition, the law on onomastic leaves, as a result, the last word on renaming, not for the residents, but for the Main Republican Onomastic Commission. So, if someone “upstairs” suddenly wants to get rid of the remnants of Russian toponymy on the map of Kazakhstan, then there is a suitable tool for that. ”

Chairman of the Republican Slavic Movement “Lad” (Kazakhstan), Maxim Kramarenko, believes that “throwing in the idea of ​​renaming the memorial of glory to Panfilov’s heroes made by the head of the NGO“ Organization of Veterans ”is nothing more than striving to destroy the existing spiritual ties between nations post-Soviet space. Under the slogans of the need to foster Kazakhstani patriotism, part of the Kazakh political elite is trying to "spread" the public consciousness from Russia, gradually removing from the history of Kazakhstan the "pages" about the positive experience of finding the Kazakh people in the same state as Russia, such as the USSR and the Russian Empire.

At the same time, one can observe the formation of "modern Kazakh mythology" about historical Russia, as a state that has brought only harm to the Kazakh people. These include the famine of 1932-33 in Kazakhstan, which is positioned by a number of public figures, as a targeted genocide policy towards the Kazakh ethnos, conducted by the Soviet leadership. ”

In addition, Kramarenko notes that “there is a heroization of historical characters who had pronounced anti-Russian views. For example, the same Mustafa Shokai, who was in Germany during the Great Patriotic War, was in contact with the fascists and was directly involved in the creation of the Turkestan Legion. ”

“We can say that all these are links of one political strategy, the roots of which are located across the ocean. The idea of ​​replacing the slogan on the Glory Memorial did not accidentally arise simultaneously with the initiative of the Kazakh opposition to hold a referendum against the Customs Union, whose appearance is so fearful in the United States, says Maxim Kramarenko. - At the end of last year, Hillary Clinton instructed all pro-Western forces to prevent the creation of the Eurasian Union. In Kazakhstan, this directive of the State Department is being implemented in various forms.

After all, this integration undertaking has great prospects that will help strengthen all the states participating in it, which in turn will lead to their more independent foreign policy from the US. ”

As can be seen, there are enough unresolved problems in the political relations of Kazakhstan with its main strategic partner. This applies in particular to the Eurasian integration, the author and one of the initiators of which Kazakhstan itself is. So is it not better to focus attention and efforts on existing issues than to create artificial problems?

The Park of Glory Memorial in the Park named after 28 Panfilov Guardsmen in Alma-Ata was built to mark the 30 anniversary of the Victory in the year 1975. The opening of the four-part memorial complex took place on 8 on May 1975 of the year. The first part - the high relief "Oath" (on the left side) - is dedicated to young fighters for Soviet power in Kazakhstan. The central part of the triptych - “Feat” - captured the images of the Panfilov heroes who defended Moscow with their breasts. On the right is the song "Trumpeting Glory", which gives the whole memorial an optimistic sound, its images embody the hymn of triumphant life. At the Eternal Flame - massive cubes of labradorite, beneath which bricked up capsules with the earth, brought from the cities of heroes.
Author:
Originator:
http://rus.ruvr.ru
213 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 26 March 2013 16: 25 New
    11
    Well, Kazakhstan is a sovereign state and has the right to pursue its internal policy at its discretion. Another thing is that Russian officials (the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Culture, etc.) should step up in terms of rapprochement with the Kazakh society and strengthening their positions there in civilized ways, of course (cultural events, humanitarian programs, joint projects, etc.).
    1. feanor
      feanor 26 March 2013 17: 44 New
      -26
      No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.
      1. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX 26 March 2013 18: 32 New
        +5
        So this is the park to them. Panfilovites, there are their symbolic (and maybe real) graves, so this is exactly the phrase there just in place. It seemed like the idea of ​​renaming this park seems to be in them. Momysh-uly, and they were going to erect a monument there, but I don’t know how it ended. There is also a bust of Panfilov and a monument to the Afghans.
      2. predator.3
        predator.3 26 March 2013 18: 45 New
        22
        Quote: feanor
        No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.


        In fact, monuments are erected once and for all, if you start to rewrite texts, change cultural compositions, according to the current political moment, then it already knows what the hell! Moreover, this monument to Panfilov’s.
      3. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 26 March 2013 18: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: feanor
        it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.

        Break-not build
      4. Tersky
        Tersky 26 March 2013 19: 25 New
        10
        Quote: feanor
        it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.

        Well, then it remains to blow it up in Kutaisi, how to demolish it in Tashkent and the Lviv region, how to “transfer” it in Tallinn .. so to speak?
        “In principle, the story with the monument to the Panfilov heroes is not so surprising and atypical. Rather, the opposite. Similar initiatives aimed at erasing from the memory of Kazakhstanis our common past in the USSR, saturated with the spirit of historical revisionism for the sake of the national conjuncture,
        this is all, to put it mildly, veiled, in fact it is ordinary fascism. The words carved on the monument belong to political instructor Vasily Klochkov, and not the Shaikhutdinovs to change them ... because this is a substitution of true values
        1. romb
          romb 26 March 2013 20: 25 New
          +5
          I am more than sure that such kind of initiative proposals of “citizens” will not find support either from the authorities or from the people of Kazakhstan. Anyway, such information is more like a banal provocation.
      5. romb
        romb 26 March 2013 19: 55 New
        +6
        Dear, this is a common story, and no one has the right to rewrite it for the sake of any political or economic realities.
        In Kazakhstan, such monuments are very honored, therefore, no official will take the liberty to put a signature on such a decision.
      6. Beck
        Beck 26 March 2013 20: 37 New
        14
        Quote: feanor
        No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.


        Feanor, you are not right around, you are not right everywhere, everywhere you are wrong.

        If we squeeze the article from assumptions, suspicions, and the author’s own conjectures, the following remains.

        Someone from the Veterans Committee suggested add a new inscription, not replace the old one. Add inscription, with a mention of all Kazakhstan people participating in the Second World War. Akimat did not support this. All. Nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

        So no, they were found to be inadequate both in Kazakhstan and in Russia, which they themselves thought out, added on their own and raised their own hi over their imagination. They even want to “aggravate” interethnic relations in Kazakhstan and to “aggravate” relations between Russia and Kazakhstan. Ugh on them. And a hundred more times.

        In Russia, not everyone understands the fullness of the word KAZAKHSTAN. And in an additional inscription this word also appeared. So, since Soviet times and now, Kazakhs are not called Kazakhs by the word. Kazakhs are also called Kazakhs. Kazakhstanis are called all the inhabitants of Kazakhstan, regardless of their nationality. It is both private Russians and general Russians.

        And further. As I see from comments, not all Russians know the history of the words "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow !." These are the words of Kazakhstani V. Klochkov, political officer of the 4th company of the 2nd battalion of the 1075th rifle regiment of the 316th rifle division (future 8th guards) of the 16th army of the Western Front,
        And he said these words before the battle of his platoon with fascist tanks. And inspired by these words, 28 Panfilov guardsmen died, but did not retreat.

        And to some extent I am involved in preserving the memory of all KAZAKHSTAN participants in the Second World War. In 1941, the headquarters of the formed 316 division was located in the building of school number 19 in Almaty. Which I finished at the end of the 60s. And we high school students, in one of the classes, created a museum. And they traveled to both Dubosekovo and Kryukovo.

        And such articles with juggling and juggling only cast a shadow on ALL participants in the Second World War.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 26 March 2013 20: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Beck
          Someone from the Veterans Committee suggested adding a new inscription, rather than replacing the old one. Add an inscription mentioning all Kazakhstanis participating in the Second World War. Akimat did not support this. All. Nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

          I read it before on Kazakh sites. The story is cloudy, but there is no smoke without fire. By the way, about nationalism in Kazakhstan: not everyone is like you, Beck, unfortunately. Today I went to the Kazakhstan portal, I come across comments and quite a lot. I think that This provocation is neither the first nor the last, you also have nationalist forces. Whether they will gain strength or not is not known, it all depends on the authorities.
          1. Beck
            Beck 27 March 2013 07: 42 New
            +4
            Quote: baltika-18
            By the way, about nationalism in Kazakhstan: not everyone like you, Beck, unfortunately. Today I went to the Kazakhstan portal, I come across comments and quite a lot.


            Of course there are Natsik in Kazakhstan. And where are they not? A pun, but the Natsiks have no nationality. Natsik is such a state when all his own rises, starting from statehood and ending with his own personal latrine and everything is not his own. This is a problem for the whole world. Nationalists are everywhere where there is more, where Mentsche, but everywhere. And thank God that in general, nationalism is now not the same as in the 19th century and earlier. After all, enlightenment is developing.
            1. Beck
              Beck 27 March 2013 08: 16 New
              +7
              Quote: Beck
              After all, enlightenment is developing


              I’ll add about Kazakhstan people. As the most understandable and most obvious, I will touch upon the topic of sport. In Soviet times, any delegation or sports team from Kazakhstan, which included residents of Kazakhstan of different nationalities, was broadcast on the radio by the Kazakh delegation, as the Kazakhstan sports team. Now this definition is being forgotten.

              Young sports commentators, broadcasting from international competitions, call all the representatives of our team Kazakhs .. For example, a weightlifter, twice Olympic champion Ilyin or an athlete, an Olympic champion, Shishigina is called not even Kazakh athletes, but Kazakhs (whether this is good or bad is another matter). In Soviet times, they would definitely be called Kazakhstani athletes, and in my opinion this is the most correct definition.
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 27 March 2013 09: 45 New
                0
                Quote: Beck
                In Soviet times, they would definitely be called Kazakhstani athletes, and in my opinion this is the most correct definition.

                That's it, Bek. The country of Kazakhstan, whatever one may say, is not mono-ethnic.
                1. Beck
                  Beck 27 March 2013 12: 09 New
                  +5
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  That's it, Bek. The country of Kazakhstan, whatever one may say, is not mono-ethnic.


                  I’ll add it again. Kazakh athletes are called Kazakhs precisely by Russian commentators. Well, they are probably young and the word Kazakhstani is not very clear to them. Kazakhstani commentators operate more with words - our athlete, Kazakhstan athlete, for example, in relation to Ilyin and do not say that Ilyin is Kazakh.
                  1. Gur
                    Gur April 1 2013 10: 03 New
                    0
                    I also noticed this, and the impression is that this is done on purpose. Well, probably with what is being done on television, these are trifles. There is no correctness at all.
      7. wax
        wax 26 March 2013 22: 38 New
        -2
        Are Kazakhstanis ashamed of the words and feat of their heroes? If so, then Panfilov’s heroes can be made generally foreigners by renaming themselves Kypchaks.
        1. DimychDV
          DimychDV 27 March 2013 08: 28 New
          +2
          Either he stole table silver at a party, or he was stolen from him - it never became clear. But the sediment remained ...
          About six years ago, one grandmother told me about the Panfilovites who were traveling through Saratov to Moscow. She was then about 12 years old, and now the delight was completely childish. There was not so much connectivity as there was enthusiasm. And how Panfilov’s thieves in the market were shortened - thimbles and gamblers. and how they were dressed in winter. and how in the Caucasus before or after already fought.
        2. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 57 New
          -2
          Quote: Wax
          Are Kazakhstanis ashamed of the words and feat of their heroes? If so, then Panfilov’s heroes can be made generally foreigners by renaming themselves Kypchaks.

          And what do you think judging by the comments of the Kazakhs. Thank God that they are not the whole Kazakh people
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 06 New
            +4
            and what kind of comments do Kazakhs have regarding the feat of their heroes? Some of the Kazakhs here said something negative about them?
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 27 March 2013 22: 24 New
              -2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              and what kind of comments do Kazakhs have regarding the feat of their heroes? Some of the Kazakhs here said something negative about them?

              Clear. Panfilov’s are not your heroes. And my uncles are Panfilov’s.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 56 New
                +6
                you argue with yourself. WHO OF KAZAKH HERE SAY A NEGATIVE ABOUT HEROES OF WAR?
              2. romb
                romb 28 March 2013 14: 26 New
                +3
                Let us not suffer from h. Indicate where, and when at least one Kazakh said on this thread something bad about Panfilov’s?
              3. zhandosbai
                zhandosbai 8 May 2013 17: 17 New
                0
                How are Panfilov’s not our heroes?

                Bauyrzhan Momyshuly (December 24, 1910 - June 10, 1982) - participant of the Great Patriotic War, Hero of the Soviet Union, Panfilovets, participant in the battle for Moscow, writer. For the courage and heroism shown in the battle of Moscow, Captain Bauyrzhan Momyshuly in 1942 was introduced to the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, but was awarded him only posthumously
      8. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 22: 51 New
        -2
        it’s logical for you, but for me this monument as a child was a pioneer in the guard of honor standing, it’s not only not logical, it is indescribable with a censored speech.

        Change your profile picture, otherwise it’s somehow out of place
    2. FC SKIF
      FC SKIF 26 March 2013 18: 24 New
      +5
      Our Foreign Ministry on work with compatriots is a fat deuce. Mainly resolved political, economic issues, and the cultural component in last place. As a result, the RUSSIAN WORLD is squeezing. The "distribution area" of the Russian people is melting (I do not mean the emigrant communities, gradually dissolving among the local ones).
      1. feanor
        feanor 26 March 2013 21: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: Beck

        And further. As I see from comments, not all Russians know the history of the words "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow !." These are the words of Kazakhstani V. Klochkov, political officer of the 4th company of the 2nd battalion of the 1075th rifle regiment of the 316th rifle division (future 8th guards) of the 16th army of the Western Front,
        And he said these words before the battle of his platoon with fascist tanks. And inspired by these words, 28 Panfilov guardsmen died, but did not retreat.

        And to some extent I am involved in preserving the memory of all KAZAKHSTAN participants in the Second World War. In 1941, the headquarters of the formed 316 division was located in the building of school number 19 in Almaty. Which I finished at the end of the 60s. And we high school students, in one of the classes, created a museum. And they traveled to both Dubosekovo and Kryukovo.

        And such articles with juggling and juggling only cast a shadow on ALL participants in the Second World War.


        I lost sight of the fact that this is a quote, and I generally admit that I was wrong in this matter.
        1. Beck
          Beck 27 March 2013 08: 00 New
          +5
          Quote: feanor
          I lost sight of the fact that this is a quote, and I generally admit that I was wrong in this matter.


          Admitting your mistakes is always inconvenient, but this is the prerogative of adequate people with logic and analysis.
      2. Gur
        Gur April 1 2013 10: 11 New
        +1
        Yes, there is a deuce, there is generally nothing to put an assessment for, a deuce is at least some kind of evaluation of activity, it doesn’t exist here at all, one desire is loot. You don’t even know what to do, how to put in place the presumptuous nationalists, and the situation is such that they put us in the framework of dumb cattle who should listen and swallow it, and if you don’t like it, you can express it but then look for another job or even change citizenship. What actually the people do.
  2. aksakal
    aksakal 26 March 2013 16: 28 New
    15
    And although the incident turned out to be exhausted, it was not possible to avoid a public outcry. Moreover, there is a strong suspicion that it was thanks to this resonance that the decision to replace the inscription was never made.
    - the author, leave your suspicions to yourself, this is a blow! On the basis of suspicions, and not facts, one can say such that the author can unwittingly carry out the will of the State Department, although here he seems to oppose this State Department! Put your suspicions there, I know where, but I won’t say - I’ve been raised well!
    And the facts are as follows - on his own initiative, someone Shaikhutdinov simply voiced a wish (like far from the first person, this Shaikhutdinov, like his Russian counterpart Zhirinovsky, is just a little bigger with a pipe and smoke, has the right to sound his ideas) among the bureaucrats, an unexpected proposal caused confusion. as it happens in autocratic states, all together raised their heads up, what the First or someone on his behalf would say. This one on his behalf adequately evaluated the proposal and refused. After which the bureaucrats amicably duplicated the refusal to society. This is a real picture, but what the author paints is his personal inventions. And I'm tired of already giving an adequate answer to these fabrications. I hope that forum users understand what I mean.
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 26 March 2013 20: 41 New
      0
      In fact, I clearly, so as not to be mistaken, set MINUS, and the moderator for some reason added 2 pluses, for this you have 10 minuses!
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 26 March 2013 22: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: ia-ai00
        set MINUS, and the moderator for some reason added 2 pluses,

        Olya was offended ......
        Do not be offended, I will give a flower. love
      2. Focker
        Focker 26 March 2013 22: 47 New
        +2
        This is not a moderator! Just in parallel with you, three pluses, so instead of -1 it turned out +2. Similarly, you could have plus, but it would have turned out -8, for example. You can easily check this if you hover over the rating before adding / minus and after that. hi
  3. Fox
    Fox 26 March 2013 16: 37 New
    14
    Kazakhs are curled ?! I do not believe! among Kazakhs, my friends and acquaintances, Kazakhs are not Tajiks or Uzbeks.
    1. WWW.budanov
      WWW.budanov 26 March 2013 17: 22 New
      15
      I am Russian, I served in Kazakhstan (...). I am proud of this PEOPLE. Its president (Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev) is an example to our "woeful perestroika" ... Remember the times of collapse ... ONE alone held it with dignity. Anyway, why now there are no Kazakh "guest workers", .... and thousands more why?
      1. Earthman
        Earthman 26 March 2013 17: 41 New
        10
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        I am Russian, I served in Kazakhstan (...). I am proud of this PEOPLE.

        You are just handsome, I shake my hand.
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        Its president (Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev) is an example to our "woeful perestroika" ... Remember the times of collapse ... ONE alone held it with dignity. Anyway, why now there are no Kazakh "guest workers", .... and thousands more why?

        Thank you very much for understanding
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 22: 46 New
        -2
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        HE alone was worthy. Anyway, why now there are no Kazakh "guest workers", .... and thousands more why?

        Well, thousands are not thousands, but there are, besides you’ll forgive me, but I don’t need to say about the dignity of Nazik.
        By the way, what is “worthy” in your concept?
    2. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 17: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Fox
      , there were no gandons. Kazakhs are not Tajiks or Uzbeks.

      What do you dislike about Uzbeks and Tajiks? Choose expressions
      1. Fox
        Fox 26 March 2013 18: 08 New
        +5
        Quote: Earthman
        What do you dislike about Uzbeks and Tajiks? Choose expressions

        there is a lot of manure in their midst. and they do not keep the word. I know these people very well.
        1. Earthman
          Earthman 26 March 2013 18: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: Fox
          there is a lot of manure in their midst. and they do not keep the word. I know these people very well.

          Well, you determine it by politicians, not by people. any nation has a bad one, the family has its black sheep, but do not go too far at the global level. Especially in your comments I read dirt and addressed to Kazakhstan.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 26 March 2013 19: 18 New
          +3
          there is a lot of manure in their environment. and they don’t keep the word. I know these people very well. [/ Quote]

          It is not right! Well, how many of these people do you know? Overwhelming majority?
          You can’t smear all the people with black paint! if you recognize a couple of hundreds, even thousands of people!
  4. Trailer
    Trailer 26 March 2013 16: 38 New
    15
    I have been there more than once a very beautiful park. Well, so ... nonsense, comrades! Why scold only our Kazakhstani young Natsik and bureaucrats. Let's look into your garden:

    IVANOVO11 September. In the center of Ivanovo, the administration destroyed a monument to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War, erected in honor of the anniversary of the Victory over fascism on the square of the 40 anniversary of the Victory.
    More details: http://www.rosbalt.ru/federal/2012/09/11/1032809.html

    "In the Moscow Region Aprelevka A few days ago TAKEN ANOTHER ONE MONUMENT. Monument to pilot Lieutenant Vasily Fedorovich Poidenko, a Ukrainian who defended Moscow, was demolished "[and not transferred -!] Supposedly" in connection with the expansion of the Kiev highway, "as stated in the article
    .
    Recall that BEFORE a wide response in the media was the news of the destruction of a monument to the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War in Khimki near Moscow, where, in addition to the DESTRUCTION OF THE MONUMENT, the burial sites of six Heroes of the Soviet Union were excavated.

    http://obozrevatel.com/news/2007/5/17/171064.htm

    photo of the acts of Russian vandals http://image.v4.obozrevatel.com/files/39/_Picture_file_path_39727.jpg

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine [indignantly] asks the Russian Foreign Ministry to provide information on the legal grounds for dismantling the monument to the Ukrainian pilot Vasily Poidenko who died during the Great Patriotic War on the Kiev highway in the Moscow region

    http://news.uaclub.net/10_190006.html

    other news:

    In Moscow Region Khimki the monument to the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War was destroyed. Not far from the sensitive facility - the Lavochkin NGO - the graves of six pilots were opened. TOMBOLS RIPPED, DIGGED THE REMAINS, and transferred them to the local morgue.
    http://www.zagolovki.ru/daytheme/himki/20Apr2007

    1. saw486
      saw486 26 March 2013 18: 34 New
      +6
      I think to demolish any monuments of sacrilege. This is a story, and it is not peoples who remake it for themselves.
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 26 March 2013 20: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Karavan
      IVANOVO, September 11. In the center of the city of Ivanovo, the administration destroyed a monument to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War, erected in honor of the anniversary of the Victory over fascism on the square of the 40th anniversary of the Victory

      They didn’t demolish it, they moved it. The square is small, the traffic is huge through it. It began to be called Victory Square in the late 80s. It used to be normal, there were few cars. Now traffic congestion was constantly there.
  5. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 26 March 2013 16: 42 New
    -3
    Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.
    1. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 17: 42 New
      -5
      Quote: Krasnoyarets

      Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.

      LLC what nationalists are we
  6. ed65b
    ed65b 26 March 2013 16: 46 New
    +2
    Zaye ... if you already struggle with the monuments. What is not the local Natsik, then immediately the Russians are to blame. some kind. am
  7. zemlyak
    zemlyak 26 March 2013 16: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: aksakal
    And the facts are that - on his own initiative, someone Shaikhutdinov simply voiced a wish (like far from the first person, this Shaikhutdinov, like his Russian counterpart Zhirinovsky,
    Or maybe what a sober person (Nazarbayev, Putin) has in mind, a drunk person (Shaikhutdinov, Zhirinovsky) has a tongue? Court buffoonery is also politics.
  8. marshes
    marshes 26 March 2013 16: 49 New
    +1
    A rather "interesting" site "Russians in Kazakhstan" you read articles and comments to them that you feel like you live in the 80s, frank Kazakh-phobic statements and insults by nationality. But it is of interest to Russian citizens, it seems that they mostly create ads on the site for overpopulation in one or another region of the Russian Federation, as I understand it, it was created for this purpose. Some kind of "Izuit" way of attracting repatriates.
    1. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 17: 50 New
      -2
      Quote: marshes
      A rather "interesting" site "Russians in Kazakhstan" you read articles and comments to them that you feel like you live in the 80s, frank Kazakh-phobic statements and insults by nationality. But it is of interest to Russian citizens, it seems that they mostly create ads on the site for overpopulation in one or another region of the Russian Federation, as I understand it, it was created for this purpose. Some kind of "Izuit" way of attracting repatriates.

      Yes, it is agreed that all these Slavic movements in Kazakhstan will not lead to anything good, they continue the thoughts of chauvinism and self-excellence openly and insolently and reproach that they are not given FREEDOM in Kazakhstan, that they would be closed, but they seem to serve and carry out orders EXACTLY Russian politicians, not Kazakhstani.

      And the strangest thing is that ROSpressa likes to operate on articles and informational data of Slavic movements, thereby building in the minds of Russians a wrong opinion about Kazakhstan, confusing the personal with the public, like a microscope, increase personal quail with Kazakhstan in a global way.

      ZY: advice, limit the intake of Rospress into the daily informational diet of your body if you yourself do not want to fulfill the plans of the insidious ZOG and the State Department
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 00 New
        -3
        Quote: Earthman
        they continue the thoughts of chauvinism and self-excellence openly and insolently and reproach that they are not given FREEDOM in Kazakhstan to close them, but it seems they are serving and fulfilling orders of EXACTLY Russian politicians, not Kazakhstani.

        any Russian who has the audacity to have the audacity to express his opinion about the situation in the Republic of Kazakhstan that goes against the opinion of the national delegates is immediately declared a chauvinist, even if he simply says that the economy in the Republic of Kazakhstan is in decline and does not say a word about national relations
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 44 New
          +1
          Kazakhstan economy in decline? Vasilenko, you already got your nonsense about starving Kazakhstan.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 50 New
            +1
            and we rams that grazed together ?!
            you will poke your earthenware
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 16 New
              +4
              do you have amnesia? You already poured so much slop on me, but now you don’t know?))))))) and who is this “own earthenware”? this character of what gender at least? decided to "shine" with knowledge of Kazakh realities?))))))))))))
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 22: 57 New
      0
      on this site no less than insults to Russia and Russian
      1. Beck
        Beck 27 March 2013 08: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        on this site no less than insults to Russia and Russian


        Here I do not agree with you. In the vast majority of cases, attacks on Russia and Russians occur only in the heat of controversy and only against the patriots infected with Great Russian chauvinism .. When they respond to the inadequate - Ukraine, give the Donbass and Crimea. Give Kazakhstan the "native" Russian lands of the north of Kazakhstan. We taught you to piss in the wind. You do not have your own story. Transnistria is Russian land since Suvorov fought there with the Turks. There are no Chinese on the site, so they are on - Give Dalian this traditionally Russian Port Arthur, would also be opposed.

        The whole problem of abuse is who first presented the inadequate presentation. Who does not take into account the new prevailing provisions. Who dreams of the revival of the empire, even under autocratic, even under communist sauce. And once again I will repeat Natsik in any nation, the difference is where more, where less.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 09: 58 New
          +2
          sorry but you're wrong
          very often, insults against Russia begin discussions
          I absolutely agree about the Nazis, but there is one “but” by hook or by crook that the whole period when we lived in a single state was grief for the Kazakhs, Kazakhs were oppressed, the language was destroyed, etc. etc.
          1. Beck
            Beck 27 March 2013 11: 49 New
            +4
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            but there is one “but”, by hook or by crook, the opinion is instilled that the whole period when we lived in a single state was grief for the Kazakhs, Kazakhs were oppressed, their language was destroyed, etc. etc.


            Here lies the depth of understanding of the issue, which is based on the objectivity of understanding, well, at least the past.

            There was a slave-owning era - There were modern Romans not shouting that there was no slavery and gladiatorial battles. There was a colonial era, when the strong captured the weak - Was. Well. this is how a universal history has developed.

            As it is now possible to deny that which was objective. And the colonial era in all colonial countries was characterized not by equality and humanity, but by violence and oppression. And the history of the Russian Empire does not stand out here. And the USSR was an extension of the empire, but in a mild form. According to the ideology of communism, everyone was equal and Moscow could not ignore such a creed and put forward the slogan of socialist fraternity. But political power remained in Moscow.

            And if the CIS countries say that in the past their countries were conquered by colonial force or “voluntary” agreements based on colonial force, then this is so. And why concoct that colonial acquisitions were made primarily for the benefit of the conquered peoples. First of all, as a basis, for the benefit of the metropolis, to use the natural resources of the conquered countries. And since it was necessary to conduct colonial farming, schools for Aboriginal people were created so that, with the help of workers who knew the local language and specifics, they would most effectively use the resources of the captured. This was practiced by the British in India and Africa, and the French in Indochina and Africa.

            Hunger in Kazakhstan. So hunger was all over the USSR. And we are talking about Kazakhstan hunger. Ukrainians talk about their famine. Russians about his. But who is to blame for this general hunger? Only Moscow, that is, the Communists in the Kremlin. That's what they say about their fault. But Natsik, in the heat of great power, they themselves are translating this into the whole Russian people. I repeat, the political center was to blame.

            Here it would be amusing and unacceptable to you if I would argue. That the conquest of Russia by the Golden Horde was not. There was a voluntary entry of Russian principalities into the Golden Horde. That it is the Golden Horde brought civilization to Russian lands. That it was only the Golden Hordes who saved Russia from the invasions of the Teutonic Order and the Swedes. That it was only the Golden Horde that did not let the Lithuanians and Poles absorb Russia. Nonsense? Of course. Rave? Undoubtedly. Rubbish? Even some.

            But in such a manner, Russian cheers and patriots think in general that they deny the era of colonialism, the political omnipotence of Moscow ... This is where the turmoil comes from.

            One example. The defeat at Kalka of the Polovtsian-Russian troops, the Russian cheers-patriots completely attribute the defeat to the Polovtsy. Here they are narrow-eyed bastards escaped. And that the Russian army had nothing to do with it? What to see came and suffered innocently. Swimmers then recovered after a stroke, gathered. Subudai wars caught up on the Volga crossing and few managed to cross from them to the other side of the Volga. Although there is another version that the Subudai wars on the Volga were defeated by the Volga Bulgars (Tatars). Logically. The crossing in the lower Volga was far from the capital of Burgar Bilyar. And why and for what reason the Bulgars for no reason jump for a thousand kilometers and beat unknown who did not look then towards Bilyar with a single eye.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 15: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Beck
              But Natsik, in the heat of great power, they themselves are translating this into the whole Russian people.

              again I don’t agree, they say it’s not the Communists who are to blame or the leadership is to blame, Russia and the Russians are to blame
            2. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 16: 20 New
              +1
              Quote: Beck
              But political power remained in Moscow

              and where should it be if not in the capital of the state? !!!
              Quote: Beck
              Here it would be amusing and unacceptable to you if I would argue. That the conquest of Russia by the Golden Horde was not

              you will be surprised, but I just think so, there was a single entity, with a single center which, as a result of reasons unknown to us, disintegrated
              1. Beck
                Beck 27 March 2013 16: 32 New
                +2
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                you will be surprised, but I just think so, there was a single entity, with a single center which, as a result of reasons unknown to us, disintegrated


                So you have an alternate version. Then agree further. That we brought you civilization. We taught letters to write. And how to knit bast shoes, because they walked barefoot.

                This is from the statements of the cheers-patriots just the opposite. That's when they say so and confrontation arises.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 17: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: Beck
                  we brought civilization to you

                  I really wanted to hear the decoding of this WE
                  1. Beck
                    Beck 27 March 2013 18: 29 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    I really wanted to hear the decoding of this WE


                    Well, here it begins. I gave you this as an example, that you can’t say that. What can’t say to Russian patriots-give the northern lands, we taught you to piss in the wind. So I rearranged, roughly, their words are the opposite. Having stated that this is nonsense. To clearly show that such neglect of neighbors causes only antipathy. And you do not delve into the transcript say.

                    Read carefully our discussion again.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 18: 47 New
                      0
                      God forbid me, I perfectly understood you and understood what you mean
                      more than once I heard something like you were our slaves 200 years paid tribute, etc.
                      I’m just really interested in this very “WE” period of the “yoke”, probably the very mythological and unknown period of our history, there are so many misunderstandings, not joins, contradictions and illogicalities that I really have an interesting discussion on this subject, and it’s not in the context of who or what should
                      1. Beck
                        Beck 27 March 2013 19: 10 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        God forbid me, I perfectly understood you and understood what you mean


                        Well, if you understand, that’s good. And in the history of the Golden Horde, of course, there are many misunderstandings. Somehow, in a posted article on this topic, I set forth my vision.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 19: 15 New
                        0
                        if it’s not difficult to voice, didn’t read, it would be interesting
                      3. Beck
                        Beck 28 March 2013 10: 28 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        if it’s not difficult to voice, didn’t read, it would be interesting


                        Firstly, I can’t know everything and my conclusions are the conclusions of a lover of Istogria. Secondly, I was interested in the contradictions associated precisely with the Turks, and not the details of the relationship between the subjects in the Golden Horde itself.

                        The first thing that interested me as a contradiction, back from school, was that Tatar-Mongolian the invasion, and in the empire they created, the Mongolian language was not used. Neither between khans, nor between khans and Russian princes, nor in communication between the inhabitants of the Golden Horde. Soviet scholars attributed this to the fact that the Mongols, having conquered Kazakhstan, had rebelled and came to Russia with the Turkic language. About ten years ago, I delved into this issue more deeply. And I discovered the following.

                        Genghis Khan conquered the territory of Kazakhstan in 1220-1223. He died in 1227. His grandson Bat was 22 years old. In 1237, when Batu was 32 years old, he went to Russia.
                        QUESTION. Both 12 years From 1223 to 1237, could the conqueror become a jailholder? Forget your tongue. Usually this conqueror imposes his tongue.
                        In the Russian chronicles of that time there is not a single word Mongol. Chronicles are called conquerors or Golden Horde or Tatars. Labels - state documents were written in the Turkic language, in the Turkic alphabet with the appropriate translation into the recipient's language. The term Mongol was brought into scientific use by the Western historian Kruse only in 1867. In the Russian lexicon there is not a single Mongolism and a whole layer of Turkisms. That's where to put it all if you follow the textbooks.
                        Today's scientists have come to the conclusion that in its origin the word Mongol was not an ethnonym, but the political name of the originally 4 tribes united - Borjigins, Naimans, Kereites, and Taichuites. Then, as other tribes were conquered, this political name also extended to the conquered. For example, the Smolensk and Novgorod Russian regiments participating in the campaign against Hungary and Poland also went under the name Mongol. After the death of Genghis Khan, all tribes gradually returned to their old names. Only the Syanbi tribes that lived in Inner Mongolia and gradually moved to the deserted steppes of modern Mongolia did not return, in view of the previous exodus of the indigenous tribes. These syanbi are now called the Mongols, who have turned the common political name into their anonym. This is where all the misunderstandings come from.

                        Of course, this is not all. But for myself, I deduced two options.
                        First, the tribes of Genghis Khan were Turks bearing the common political name of the Mongol. Then transferred to the xianbi tribes.
                        Second, the Genghis Khan tribes belonged to the Mongolian group of peoples. And having conquered Kazakhstan, they went back. And the Jochi ulus was Turkic in composition. And it is precisely the Turks of Batu Khan who came to Russia.

                        I highlight especially. I say TURKS, not Kazakhs. Kazakhs as a people then did not exist. Kazakhs as a people formed from Turkic tribes only in the 15th century.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 12: 44 New
                        0
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there are no Russian princes related to the "conqueror" in the army there are Turks and Slavs, the most unclear why the hell is torn to the west what is the point
                      5. Beck
                        Beck 28 March 2013 16: 21 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there are no Russian princes related to the "conqueror" in the army there are Turks and Slavs, the most unclear why the hell is torn to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons in Russian cities did not stand. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign as a label. And only the tax was collected, the monetary expression of a tenth of the property - tithing. So this tax was paid both by the nomads on the Irtysh River, and the highlanders of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents on the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy in Russia flourished. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
                      6. Beck
                        Beck 28 March 2013 16: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there are no Russian princes related to the "conqueror" in the army there are Turks and Slavs, the most unclear why the hell is torn to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons in Russian cities did not stand. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign as a label. And only the tax was collected, the monetary expression of a tenth of the property - tithing. So this tax was paid both by the nomads on the Irtysh River, and the highlanders of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents on the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy in Russia flourished. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
                      7. Beck
                        Beck 28 March 2013 16: 21 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there are no Russian princes related to the "conqueror" in the army there are Turks and Slavs, the most unclear why the hell is torn to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons in Russian cities did not stand. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign as a label. And only the tax was collected, the monetary expression of a tenth of the property - tithing. So this tax was paid both by the nomads on the Irtysh River, and the highlanders of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents on the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy in Russia flourished. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
  9. ultra
    ultra 27 March 2013 12: 51 New
    0
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    that the whole period when we lived in a single state was a grief for the Kazakhs, the Kazakhs were oppressed, the language was destroyed, etc. etc.
    As it turns out, not only for the Kazakhs, it turns out that the Russians "oppressed and oppressed" everyone in the USSR! am
  • ed65b
    ed65b 29 March 2013 23: 51 New
    0
    You’re wrong, there are no insults to the Kazakhs, there are no insults and Uighurs and Uzbeks and Russians, and many others who live in the Republic of Kazakhstan. there are simply insults from the nationalists who live in the Republic of Kazakhstan and proudly calling themselves Kazakhs of all the rest. not the titular ones. That's all.
  • The
    The cat 26 March 2013 16: 52 New
    -27
    the phrase of the famous political instructor Vasily Klochkov: “Russia is great, but nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow! ”

    If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 26 March 2013 18: 28 New
      -10
      As far as I remember, several of them served in the ranks of the ROA
    2. Svobodny
      Svobodny 26 March 2013 18: 29 New
      12
      Quote: Elgato
      If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?

      Her heroes remembered her, who dragged across the snowdrifts toward Berlin. Well remembered ... for the rest of your life laughing
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 26 March 2013 19: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Elgato
        If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?

        Quote: Svobodny
        Her heroes remembered her, who dragged across the snowdrifts toward Berlin. Well remembered ... for the rest of your life

        This is a fairly well-known story that journalists have come up with this phrase ... google find hi However, I note that I do not know how true it is ... request
        The same version is about the words of Alexander Nevsky: "Those who take the sword will die with the sword ... Who will come to us with a sword, by the sword will perish"

        Those who take the sword will die with the sword - an expression from the Gospel (Mat., 26, 52). P.A. Pavlenko (1899-1951), who set himself the task of creating the image of a patriotic commander, in the famous scenario put these words in a somewhat modified form into the mouth of Alexander Nevsky: "Those who come to us with a sword will die from the sword. That was where the Russian land stood and stands! "(P.A. Pavlenko. Alexander Nevsky. Kinopovest). The movie" Alexander Nevsky "was released on December 1 on 1938. The text created by Pavlenko: the sword will perish "- more than once was cited in newspaper articles and posters as the true historical phrase of Alexander Nevsky.

        Encyclopedic Dictionary of winged words and expressions. - M .: Lokid-Press. Vadim Serov. 2003.
    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 00 New
      0
      and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?
      1. The
        The cat 27 March 2013 00: 11 New
        -3
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?

        In the Soviet school taught so.
        Googled by the way, an ugly story looms
        http://magazines.russ.ru/novyi_mi/1997/6/petrov.html глава вторая
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 10: 00 New
          +2
          to choose from: either you studied very poorly or you had illiterate teachers
      2. Beck
        Beck 27 March 2013 09: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?


        Well, seriously. There was a battle, but certainly not 28 infantrymen with 50 fascist tanks. In the turmoil of battles, all the dead were given the Hero posthumously, but four at that time were in medical battalions for treatment of injuries. Shemyakin, Likhobaba and still do not remember. They were also considered dead in the confusion. So they remained alive.

        There was a fight. What intensity, with what forces now you will not get to the bottom. But a war correspondent based on this battle wrote his article. And as usual in those days, for propaganda, for raising morale, he pushed 50 tanks. How many of them were unknown. And this war correspondent became the author of the words in his article "Great is Russia, but there is nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!". And this correspondent put these words into the mouth of the political instructor.

        But this does not diminish the heroism of the soldiers defending Moscow. And from this the words do not fade in time. "GREAT RUSSIA, AND DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO RETURN. BECOME MOSCOW!"
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 26 March 2013 16: 54 New
    +3
    Oho-ho ... Somehow I wanted to go to Krasnovodsk, where my great-grandfather was buried and was surprised to learn that such a city does not exist, but there is an epic Turkmenbashi. I had such a face - belay .
    Soon, people who do not know the Turkic language in Asia will have nothing to do. The language can be broken: Burabai audany. recourse
    And if they also switch to the Latin alphabet, then in general a nightmare.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 23 New
      +1
      The word "district" in the Kazakh language does not exist. In the Kazakh language there is the word "audan". The author of the article would have been indignant that, in English, New York is "city" and not "gorod".
      The name of the city Schuchinsk is derived from the name of the local lake - Shortankol (literally "Lake with pikes"). This part of the Akmola region is replete with names on a pike theme, there is the city of Shortandy (literally "A place where there are pikes"). They made the Russian name so as not to overload the area with the names with the word "shortan" ("pike").
      The main place in the area is the Burabay area (Russian immigrants changed the name to “Borovoye”). This is a famous resort in Kazakhstan, which is located 17 km from Schuchinsk. In Kazakhstan, Shchuchinsk is primarily perceived as an “attachment” to Burabay. In general, Shchuchinsk is constantly called by Kazakhstanis constantly and stubbornly Burabay (Borov) - this is incorrect formally, but essentially it is. The phrase "go to Borovoye (Burabay)" among Kazakhstanis can actually mean "go to Schuchinsk."
      So do not be surprised that the district was simply renamed in honor of the actual center of the region - Burabaya, and not Schuchinsk. If they would like to stupidly rename the Russian name, the district would be called "Shortan Audany", but here they simply emphasized another point - Burabay.

      Kazakhs do not care that someone can break their tongue, trying to pronounce the name of the Kazakh village. Generally absurd accusation. The names Dneprodzerzhinsk, Kirovohrad or Novotroitsk are more complicated for a foreigner than Burabay, for example. But does the Slavs bother it? Of course not.

      What kind of Russians do Kazakhs write in what alphabet? Russians already mastered the Kazakh language in the old alphabet? Or Russians will not be able to read the inscriptions Astana, Almaty, Burabay, Pavlodar, Karagandy?
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 51 New
        0
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        What kind of Russians do Kazakhs write in what alphabet?

        Do you want Russian bilingualism? Or not already? Or all the words, words, words ...?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 10 New
          0
          gyyyy, but that the Russians in Kazakhstan were able to learn the Kazakh language in Cyrillic?))))))))))))))) for them, the Kazakh Cyrillic alphabet is also incomprehensible symbols.
          well, and the Latin alphabet can chitat 'ljuboi, kto uchilsja w shkole. Ty zhe ponimaesh, chto ja seichas tebe napisal?
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 27 March 2013 22: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            gyyyy

            Relatives told that they paid extra for knowledge of the English language on Almaty tobacco, and they did free courses. The results were not frail. You did not make a normal system of teaching the state language. Looks are not very necessary. Well, the Russian language still bothers you. So there are "unidentified" persons, offering to change the inscriptions on the monuments.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 01 New
              +2
              poor Russians! in any CIS country, they cannot learn the state language. or Turkic, Ukrainian, Baltic, Caucasian languages ​​are the most difficult in the world, or, sorry, someone has serious problems with the perception of new information.
              By the way, Germans, Koreans, Chechens do not have special problems in learning the Kazakh language. only Russians have such a problem.
              even amers for half a year or a year somehow learn the Kazakh language, more than once I came across this.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 05 New
                0
                what is your political passion for turning everything over
                language is a means of communication, and where Kazakhs and Russians lived compactly and in approximately equal proportions, Russian Kazakhs were fluent, by the way, like Tajik Tajik or others, naturally, where Kazakhs made up 10-17 percent spoke Russian
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 40 New
                  +2
                  Vasilenko, do not talk nonsense. Nifiga do not speak our Russian Kazakh language. In 1991, less than 1% of Kazakhstani Russians knew Kazakh language, which was noted in the previous Soviet census.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 44 New
                    +1
                    carefully read again what I wrote
                    Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR accounted for 18% in places dominated by Kazakhs, Russians owned Kazakhs, you didn’t live in the Kazssr according to your words, and therefore you cannot know the real situation

                    ps Either you stop poking or just try not to bother me
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 31 New
                      +1
                      where did you get the figure of 18% ????? and name the number of Russian Kazakhstanis who owned Kazakh, based on Soviet censuses.

                      I lived in Orenburg and several times a year went "across the river" to Kazakhstan, where my parents lived with my parents and a huge number of relatives - Aktyubinsk, Tselinograd, Alma-Ata, Dzhambul, Uralsk, etc.

                      Z.Y. You have not only the Kazakh language could not be deposited in the head, but also with the Russian language problems))))))))
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 35 New
                        0
                        You see, former gbshniks visited you, and we are current members of the Central Control Commission
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 06 New
                        +1
                        Vasilenko, tired of his rubbish and boltology. Speak clearly, where are your numbers from?
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 March 2013 00: 34 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  In 1991, less than 1% of Kazakhstani Russians knew Kazakh language, which was noted in the previous Soviet census.


                  Are you confusing anything?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 10 New
                    0
                    Take the results of the 1989 census. Then 0,9% of Kazakhstani Russians said that they speak the Kazakh language (they can read and write).

                    Kazakhstan Census 2009:
                    6,3% of Russian Kazakhstanis said that they were able to read and write in Kazakh.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 March 2013 01: 54 New
                      0
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Take the results of the 1989 census. Then 0,9% of Kazakhstani Russians said that they speak the Kazakh language (they can read and write).

                      Actually, it was about fluency language, right?
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 15 New
                      +2
                      fluent Russian - on the fingers and now you can count, not like in 1989.
              2. QWERTY
                QWERTY 28 March 2013 23: 15 New
                -1
                You should have seen a program of teaching the Kazakh language at school. Idiotic and uninteresting textbooks (though I studied before 2001) in comparison with English textbooks. language, for example. Accordingly, for 10 years of study, I know English much better than Kazakh.
              3. QWERTY
                QWERTY 28 March 2013 23: 15 New
                -1
                You should have seen a program of teaching the Kazakh language at school. Idiotic and uninteresting textbooks (though I studied before 2001) in comparison with English textbooks. language, for example. Accordingly, for 10 years of study, I know English much better than Kazakh.
          2. Earthman
            Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 10 New
            +2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            By the way, Germans, Koreans, Chechens do not have special problems in learning the Kazakh language. only Russians have such a problem.
            even amers for half a year or a year somehow learn the Kazakh language, more than once I came across this.

            last year, an Englishman taught Kazakh in Kazakh villages
          3. Yarbay
            Yarbay 27 March 2013 23: 48 New
            +3
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            poor Russians! in any CIS country, they cannot learn the state language. or Turkic, Ukrainian, Baltic, Caucasian languages ​​are the most difficult in the world, or, sorry, someone has serious problems with the perception of new information.

            It depends on the person himself and on the circumstances!
            In Soviet times, very few Russians knew Azerbaijani, now 90 percent of those living know it!
            For example, the hero of our country, Yura Kovalev, knew the Azerbaijani language better than some Azerbaijanis, but there was a neighbor who did not know at all, but in difficult years of the early 90s she went to Turkey to earn money!
            Arrived a year later, she spoke pure Turkish !!
            I asked her. You lived here for thirty years and said that you cannot learn a language, but in a year you learned it !!
            She answered, life made !!
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 55 New
              0
              language is a means of communication, if it is in demand it is known if not then ..
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 03 New
                +1
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                language is a means of communication, if it is in demand it is known if not then ..

                No Vladimir. Are you mistaken, as if you live in a foreign country, the language of that country is not claimed ??
                They were just lazy, they didn’t count !!
                And now the conditions have changed and everyone knows Azerbaijani well, since everything is in the Azerbaijani language !!
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 07 New
                  +1
                  in my class of 30 there were 4 Kazakhs 2 did not know a language at all
                  about it was not considered it funny Three musketeers in Kazakh to buy was easier than simple but in Russian.
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 26 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    about it was not considered it funny Three musketeers in Kazakh to buy was easier than simple but in Russian.

                    it wasn’t easier for us to buy books in Azerbaijani and you were right Azerbaijanis who did not know the Azerbaijani language well, because it was believed that in order to have prospects in the future, you must definitely know Russian !! that, as I wrote above, they didn’t count anymore!
                    Let's be honest!
                  2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 30 New
                    -2
                    can you name a lot of children who want to learn too much?
                    Well, to be honest, and the Kazakh woman who resolds Kazakh was generally sorry for everything ...
                    about not respect for culture, I think that I read the Kazakh epos in childhood more than the "nationalist" Marek
                  3. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 36 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    can you name a lot of children who want to learn too much?

                    Vladimir and too much ???
                    Parents did not ask children !!
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    well, to be honest

                    Well, this is of course particular, but here I agree that in many things they themselves were to blame !!
                    I remember in Georgia with my uncle went to the store to buy bread !!
                    When the Russian uncle asked for bread they did not answer and didn’t serve him, they thought Georgians !! When they learned that they quickly served from Baku saying that it’s embarrassing for the Georgian to not know Georgian, they were mistaken)))
                  4. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 18 New
                    +1
                    say so, Vova, that the Kazakh language was superfluous for you. and don’t have to push it to your teacher. because then it turns out that 100% of the teachers of the Kazakh language are mediocrity, because Russians could not learn at least the basics of the language. Russians are trying so hard, they want to learn the state language, but, damn it, this is such an impossible task! ay-ya-yay! and around there is not a single Kazakh who would help, and do not sell tutorials, and language courses do not exist. how can I learn a language here? you’ve already re-read the Kazakh epos, but still don’t know what gender “agashka”)))))) you are a dreamer) you are so connoisseur of Kazakh culture as a ballerina from me. with the naked eye you can see that about the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan you know NEVER. That lived here, that did not live - one result. You don’t even know how the president’s name is spelled correctly)))))) it doesn’t occur to any Kazakhstani that you can write the name of Nazarbayev with any other letters)))) and this is not the first time you have made mistakes on a level location. It’s the same as if you persistently wrote the name of the Russian president as Pulin, and not Putin.
                  5. Gur
                    Gur April 1 2013 10: 55 New
                    +1
                    Well, maybe of course not all 100%, but most teachers are mediocrity and not only the Kazakh language. And also ugly and mediocre textbooks, and the educational program too (although in Russia it is not better with it). Teachers run away from schools, since writing manuals and reports, making plans has become an unbearable activity. In schools, two copies of textbooks, Atamura and Russian publications, atamura (the name is suitable) lies on the table, the Russian edition under the table. And God forbid, those who check it will see these textbooks, so they yell at the mouth accusing the yoke of Russians at 70 years old (for some reason, it’s 70, you can see the Russian yoke was still like this, but the Soviet is already really IGO) and this is in the face of Russian-speaking teachers. Maybe I exaggerate one episode only (this is just about education) But this fact made people sell their property and bring them to their historical homeland, and this despite the fact that 90% of Russians are in that place of residence. I am not saying that one does not need to learn Kazakh or against it, who needs to learn. Enough courses and materials. If only this matter would not have been in vain, since, no matter how you know the language, you remain Russian, which means that you are the one from whom you put up with IGO.
                  6. Beck
                    Beck April 1 2013 13: 50 New
                    +2
                    Quote: GUR
                    that they put us in the framework of dumb cattle who should listen and swallow it, and if you don’t like it, you can express it but then look for another job or even change citizenship. What actually the people do.


                    Something you confuse the fellow countryman private with the general. Bastik and in Africa bastik, Head and at the bottom of the sea, Head. If I also express a zealous opinion against the boss, I will be fired and he will not look at the fact that I am Kazakh. All bosses first need submission. And then the Schoolboy, Svoik, and Khrapunov were our ministers. And Tereshchenko was the prime minister, and the prime minister was Uyghur Masimov. And Khrapunov calmed down because he stole money, and not because Russian. And he fled not to Russia, but to Switzerland. And the Minister of Emergencies is now Bozhko. And we have Slavs akims of all levels.

                    Quote: GUR
                    Atamura and Russian publications, atamura (the name is suitable) lies on the table, the Russian edition under the table.


                    And with the textbooks we have the same story as in Russia. Everything will not settle down. Russian textbooks, too, will not come to a consensus. But there’s nothing to ironize and humiliate the words of another language, or are you a chauvinist? If a chauvinist then you can continue. The book edition of the textbooks is called Atamura. It is possible that it produces bad textbooks, but to whose you have such disregard for the word. Atamura is translated as Native speech. And are you laughing at it? What is lacking in horizons and well-read so as not to scoff at another language. Here, the Kazakhs do not think to laugh at the Russian language due to the fact that the Russian word God is translated into the Kazakh language as r ... obviously. Both Atamura and God belong to that class of words, which in their pronunciation in other languages ​​mean different concepts.

                    What lacks education and upbringing, so as not to offend foreign languages?
                  7. Gur
                    Gur April 1 2013 15: 33 New
                    +1
                    No, I'm not a chauvinist, I'm a realist. I think your national pride would probably not allow you to listen in a country where everyone is equal and brothers, something similar from your boss or your nation? Even if he’s a bastard. (As for Khrapunov, where else can he run, then he seems to be not Russian either) I don’t laugh at the word and its translation, I laugh at the textbooks and those who write them, and this is complete nonsense of this word, and it’s not my fault that it so harmoniously coincided.
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 36 New
    +2
    while in Kazakhstan, Vasilenki think that the Russians were completely terrorized and aggrieved, but it turns out that the Russians in the KZ absolutely calmly manage without knowledge of the state language. this does not bother them. these are the oddities of Kazakh oppression. somehow strange we make them turn into Kazakhs, if they still can’t connect two words in Kazakh. the fact that in KZ there is no infringement on the basis of language does not reach Vasilenko. and therefore, our Russians live in the Russian language environment, without experiencing any problems.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      while in Kazakhstan, Vasilenki think that the Russians were completely terrorized and aggrieved, but it turns out that the Russians in the KZ absolutely calmly manage without knowledge of the state language. this does not bother them. these are the oddities of Kazakh oppression. somehow strange we make them turn into Kazakhs, if they still can’t connect two words in Kazakh. the fact that in KZ there is no infringement on the basis of language does not reach Vasilenko. and therefore, our Russians live in the Russian language environment, without experiencing any problems.

      I don’t know how it is with you, but most of us now perfectly know Azerbaijani !! In many respects everyone is forced to use Latin, everywhere knowledge of Azerbaijani is first and foremost required, almost everywhere, state work is mandatory!
  • valokordin
    valokordin 26 March 2013 16: 54 New
    0
    Quote: Krasnoyarets
    Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.

    Kazakhs will learn the Latin script and will speak Turkish, even in Russia in Tatarstan, earlier the Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, even earlier the Kazan province, and even earlier the Tatar Khanate, were going to introduce the Latin alphabet.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 26 March 2013 16: 56 New
      +1
      Well, you bent it, of course. Still, Kazakh and Turkish are quite different. This is even me - not a Kazakh, I know.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 28 March 2013 01: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: valokordin
      Kazakhs will learn the Latin script and speak Turkish,

      And how do you see it?)))
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 27 New
        +3
        Yes, he froze garbage. he thinks that the whole difference between Kazakh and Turkish is in the alphabet. another expert linguist.
  • antidote
    antidote 26 March 2013 16: 56 New
    +7
    The article is a drain from the finger of a problem. Someone said something awkward, no one would know about it. And no one would pay attention to why the problem can be inflated where it really is not. It would be better to talk about how in Kazakhstan textbooks stories. the history of Russian-Kazakh relations is presented one-sidedly. And children from childhood absorb the fact that the Kazakhs were only oppressed at all times by the Russian Empire and the USSR. And there is, on the other hand, information about the development of industry, about the construction of cities and deposits, about the general literacy of peoples, and so on. It is very one-sided, of course it is clear that we need to raise the level of self-awareness of the nation, but we must do this truthfully, talking about the contribution to the development of Kazakhstan and other nationalities
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 26 New
      +2
      Did you read Kazakh history books yourself? Or do you know only from the words of hysterical journalists?
  • erased
    erased 26 March 2013 17: 07 New
    11
    The neighbors have only one tendency - either to deny the Great Patriotic War and consider it evil (the Baltic states, Georgia), or to stick out the feats of their own (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, etc.)
    These wise men forgot one thing - it was not Kazakhs, Turkmens, Chuvashs or Russians who defeated Germany and Japan. I defeated the Soviet people! Multinational, single. mighty!
    And dividing into parts is an initiative of good friends from across the ocean and they sang along.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 28 New
      +1
      They wrote complete garbage, demonstrating absolute ignorance of the topic. In Kazakhstan, the memory of the Second World War is sacred, the monuments are not demolished, but rather they are built, and the Kazakhs erect them not only inside Kazakhstan, but also on the territory of the Russian Federation and other countries.
  • sprut
    sprut 26 March 2013 17: 15 New
    +3
    Apparently, systematic work is underway to prevent integration in the post-Soviet space.
    1. avt
      avt 26 March 2013 19: 25 New
      0
      Quote: sprut
      Apparently, systematic work is underway to prevent integration in the post-Soviet space

      And not only . The Soviet past disturbs everyone. The state national elites to strengthen their power, the most radically inclined is simply based on the hater of the USSR, the liberals are hindered by the “scoop” by at least comparing it with the present day, because comparing the number of sausages in the store no longer convinces. And we see the result, and the Kazakh case is not the most radical. Take the Baltic states, Saakashvili, the western part of Ukraine, in Russia, we also already have Ivan’s relatives who don’t remember those numbers. Take at least the liberoid nonsense of Popov and Chubais about Vlasov, who, according to their legends, was eager to create a center of resistance to Stalin. the monument to the Soviet general was also pushed back - the Kazakh was not the title one. In general, it’s sad that’s all, but you can’t give up. Even a small but competent article confirmed by historical facts about our Great Common Past is very useful and weighty against the background of an empty bark of “de-Stalinist historians” and liberal nationalists.
    2. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 26 March 2013 21: 01 New
      +5
      Well, this is the “pepper” Clinton said that she would not allow the revival of the USSR, here are advisers from the USA and Britain and “pouring” into the ears of the leadership of Kazakhstan so that Kazakhstan could move away from Russia.
  • Goldkonstantin
    Goldkonstantin 26 March 2013 17: 16 New
    +1
    Even in Brotherly Kazakhstan there are puppets ov! Damn, so that all of them are covered by Washington. Remove the inscription on the monument to the Heroes of Panfilov’s, and then what? Denial of a common story? Accusing Russia of all troubles, what is Ukraine doing?
    1. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 17: 55 New
      +4
      Quote: GoldKonstantin
      Accusation of Russia in all troubles

      Well, that’s how it is, 80% of it is.
      Only 20% are due to geography, nature and population.
      Look at the Russian programs, what’s good there, well, ok, there’s almost mass Internet, but here too there’s a massive RAP
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 03 New
        0
        and what exactly is included in these 80%?
  • Humpty
    Humpty 26 March 2013 17: 31 New
    +7
    Blessed is the city of Faithful, which is built grandfather's dream
    Blessed is the eternal city that is now called Alma-Ata.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 32 New
      +1
      A city called Almaty existed even when the Russians were still under the "Tatar-Mongolian" yoke. No need to misinterpret the story, even in TSB it was written that the military base (fort) Verny was built on the site of the existing settlement of Almaty at that time.
      And the word "Alma-Ata" is generally nonsense in terms of the Kazakh language. It sounds like Kazakh, but it’s actually linguistic crap. “Thank you” to Russian officials of the 20s who did not know the local language and gave birth to such a word.
      1. Smoke
        Smoke 27 March 2013 07: 41 New
        -1
        You apparently excavations of the ancient city of Iranian-speaking tribes mean what relation the Kazakhs have to the Persians? .... Before the founding of the Russian Faithful, there was no other CITY in that place. I emphasize specifically for you Kazakhs - chauvinists - CITIES.
        1. Beck
          Beck 27 March 2013 09: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Smoke
          .By the founding of the Russian Faithful, no other CITY existed in that place. I emphasize specifically for you Kazakhs - chauvinists - CITIES.


          The city in the Maloalmatinsky hollow was. And it was already after the Saks, in the Middle Ages.
          By the way, Saki of Iranian origin did not build cities. Prideful, but not cities, were built 3000 years ago when they were engaged in livestock breeding. That is, they lived in one place, and herds were driven away to pastures. But they also stopped building hillforts when they switched to more efficient nomadic cattle breeding.

          The existing city in the Middle Ages, on the site of today's Almaty, and minted its money. I agree this city turned into a settlement by the 19th century, but people lived there. And then all people choose the most convenient place for housing, and the mechanism of thinking is the same for all people.

          When the question was where to lay the Russian fortress, the Russian people also took a closer look and realized that there was no better place in the district than the settlement of Almaty. Well, why lay a fortress on inconvenience.
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: Beck
            When the question was where to lay the Russian fortress, the Russian people also took a closer look and realized that there was no better place in the district than the settlement of Almaty. Well, why lay a fortress on inconvenience.

            Can I list the buildings that the Russians demolished in order to lay a fortress?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 15 New
              0
              residential buildings were demolished under the new layout of the fortress. in Almaty at least where you dig, you will find the remains of the old Dorussian settlement. I personally, digging a garage on Al-Farabi Ave., dug up a bunch of all kinds of different things.
              By the way, nothing was left of the Russian fortress either. back in Soviet times, everything was demolished. and even before this earthquake destroyed everything. there are only a few examples of the architecture of the Faithful - Zenkov Cathedral, for example. But we are not saying that if the Verna buildings were not left, then the Faithful did not exist.
              1. Was mammoth
                Was mammoth 27 March 2013 22: 38 New
                -3
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                in Almaty at least where you dig, you will find the remains of the old Dorussian settlement

                I'm sober
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 48 New
                -1
                it’s true that the fortress is much more north than the prospectus indicated to you, and ravings about what else was demolished in Soviet times are also not necessary, and there are still plenty of examples of Verny’s architecture, a fabric store on Gorky and kirlymyrly, to the house of the officer’s assembly, unfortunately thanks to the city administration already in the period of independence was destroyed by the city governor’s doi
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 16 New
                  +3

                  The silver dirham minted in the city of Almaty in the year 684 of the Hijra (1285-1286).
                  In the field is tamga 1 with six “pearls” around the central line and two ornamental vignettes with “knots of happiness” on the sides. Around, between single-line rims, there is an inscription in a geometrical kufi font, the beginning and end of which are separated by an icon in the form of a double nodule or "heart":
                  "Power [belongs] to Allah the One, Almighty!"

                  Obst. In the field - tamga 2, decorated around with “pearls” and vignettes, as on l.st. Caption: "This dirham was minted in Balad Almaty in the year 684."
                  Diameter 22 mm, weight 1,87 g.

                  Regarding the pre-revolutionary houses of Almaty, I wrote that single buildings have been preserved. Read carefully.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 23 New
                    0
                    Once again we didn’t drink at the Brudershaft, then carefully look at the excavation maps, they were conducted in the foothills, the fortress is located much lower, I am surprised that you have not yet brought a photo of the Saki war
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 54 New
                      +1
                      I don’t care with whom you drank on the Brudershaft there and who calls you what. you were the first to insult both me and the Kazakhs, but at the same time you demand that you be called to “You”. with a fig, comrade "refugee"? you are constantly talking nonsense about half-starving feral Kazakhs who have oppressed Russian fellow citizens. why am I going to respect you? You are an enemy of Russian-Kazakh relations. you carry nonsense in which someone then begins to believe. and all just to cover up the fact that you simply turned out to be useless in KZ. and even your Russian acquaintances in Kazakhstan do not understand you, as you yourself spoke about this.
                      now in Almaty-Verny-Alma-Ata. even Bartold in 1894 mentioned that the newly-made residents of Verny dismantled old Kazakh houses from burnt bricks for their needs. you now call Bartold a Kazakh history rewriter.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 19 New
          +1
          Smoke, go into the fog with your stupid things. Or at least open TSB.
  • heavytank
    heavytank 26 March 2013 17: 38 New
    +2
    you all immediately thought that something was going wrong in Kazakhstan. And what is there in Russia itself? know Kazakhstan and Russia as two pages of a coin. and all this is some kind of garbage.
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 26 March 2013 17: 45 New
    +7
    This article is a direct example of provocation ...
    This monument, as well as other monuments of the Great Patriotic War, is treated as its monuments - subjects of our national pride ... Panfilov is the heroes of Kazakhstan and here they consider it their own ..
    In Kazakhstan there are few families that somehow did not touch this war .. Marek and Aksakal and Bek and others have already written on this site about the participation of Kazakhs and Kazakhstanis and the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union.
    Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense catch up Russian (or Russian-speaking) .. To some of them it is itching to somehow distort, slander, defame Kazakhstan and the Kazakhs ..
    Interestingly and how the majority, like here on the site and among the Russian inhabitants ready, so sincerely believe in this nonsense... "Blessed is he who believes .."
    I know that for most of you I will not prove anything ... You are already ready to accept any muck about Kazakhstan in advance .. But I will express my opinion ... IMHO
    1. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 18: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Alibekulu

      This article is a direct example of provocation ...

      Above, I wrote as “pro-Russian” minded people write articles like this. Increase their little misunderstanding in READY informational food, so that the Russians grab it, but the thinking person does not need anything of this kind
    2. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 26 March 2013 18: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense is picked up by Russians (or Russian speakers) ..

      Type in Google something like “a monument to 28 Panfilov’s ...” and you will find in the comments of the Kazakhs a proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park “... is that Moscow or something? ..”. There is no smoke without fire.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 26 March 2013 18: 23 New
        +2
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense is picked up by Russians (or Russian speakers) ..
        Was mammoth
        Type in Google something like "a monument to 28 Panfilov ..." and you will find in the comments of the Kazakhs a proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park "... is that Moscow or what? ..". Smoke without fire

        But you and the finished example ... hi
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 26 March 2013 19: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Alibekulu
          And here is a ready-made example for you.

          Do you know this book? It contains a small set of 495 pages of the names of the victims. Of these, four are my uncles. Two of them are buried in the same mass grave near the village of Kryukovo. Is yours there?
          And when you Natsik raise their heads, rewrite history and on this site you justify them, then do not wait for silence.
          I am Ryazan, born in Tver
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 26 March 2013 19: 27 New
            +1
            Quote: Was Mammoth
            Do you know this book?
            Are yours there?
            You justify them
            do not wait for silence.
            I am Ryazan, born in Tver


            1. Familiar and ours have it ...
            2. 2 maternal grandfather's brother .. grandfather himself did not get to the front - the war was over ..
            3. I do not condone them ..
            4. And I am silent, when you and your ilk distort and distort the facts - I am not going to ...
            5. I am Kostanay, born in the same place ...
            6. What kind of-tribe speak ???
            7. Any questions???
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 26 March 2013 19: 46 New
              -2
              Quote: Alibekulu
              Any questions???

              Is.
              Quote: Alibekulu
              And I am silent, when you and others like you distort and distort the facts - I’m not going to ...

              What did I distort? That there are practically no Russian street names in the city, that history is being rewritten ...? Now we got to the monuments. Unfortunately, this is true. And let's pull Natsik together, not justify. We also divorced them today.
              About the book. It is only in Alma-Ata.
              1. Alibekulu
                Alibekulu 26 March 2013 23: 25 New
                +3
                Quote: Was Mammoth
                1. There are no Russian streets left
                According to Kostanay-from there, as an example:
                "Maple, Cherry ..."
                Publication Date: 08.04.10 22: 02 (Read: 749)
                All streets Sunny in Kostanay-2 change their names. Total of such streets in the microdistrict 11. By decision of Maslikhat Kostanay, they are now assigned new names: Dostyk, Peace, Covenant, Samal, Cherry Kaynar, Split, MapleAksu Student and Lokomotivnaya.

                As the head of the Maslikhat administration of Kostanay, Leila Umirbaeva, informed NG, these changes were adopted taking into account the opinion of the population:

                Zulfiya NABIEVA Weekly "Our Newspaper"
                http://www.kostanay.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1248
                Just count how many of 11 streets are in Russian ???
                2.About the book. It is only in Alma-Ata.
                Ours should have been in Kostanay and the region, I won’t remember exactly without thinking ...
                3.We have them too now divorced.
                And we have enough ... you can send for export ...
                4. What did I distort?
                Data....that's when the slogan will be replaced at the Glory Memorial
                then let's talk ... And this is typical OBS
                5. "the proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park"
                And they say that bulls are milking ... Also discuss ?? !! request
                1. Was mammoth
                  Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 27 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  4. What did I distort?
                  Facts .... that's when they replace the slogan at the Glory Memorial
                  then we'll talk ... And so this is a typical OBS

                  Then it will be too late. Are you for remaking the monuments?
                  1. Alibekulu
                    Alibekulu 27 March 2013 22: 13 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Was Mammoth
                    Are you for reworking the monuments?

                    Well, how to talk to you what
                    I will try, completely on the fingers ... with elements of pragmatic logic ...
                    No one will touch the monument, and now why:
                    1. If only because the Kazakhs would be proud, and sometimes even snobbery
                    they remember ... and at the opportunity, let's say the same Great Russians are reminded: "We have defended Moscow" ... From what fuya will the Kazakhs (like any other nationalities) refuse ... such a cool opportunity to work out ... I apologize the syllable is just to come along, so to explain, otherwise it does not come in the normal way ..
                    2. The reaction of Great Russians, as a rule, manifested itself clearly here, reminds me of the following situation:
                    Quarreled husband and wife. He says to her:
                    - Honey, you're wrong.
                    And she told him:
                    - Oh, I'm wrong, right?
                    So I'm telling a lie?
                    In other words, I am lying - breach, that is.
                    If I break, does that mean I'm a dog?
                    Ahhh, mom, he called me a bitch !!!
                    1. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 27 March 2013 22: 57 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Alibekulu
                      Nobody will touch the monument

                      God grant! As for nobody, I do not believe it. Not the Great Russians inscriptions on the memorial offered to change, "supplement". Visit your sites. Remember the proverb in the eye immediately. And about the joke, I know a couple on a similar topic. Yes, admins do not understand.
                      1. Alibekulu
                        Alibekulu 27 March 2013 23: 11 New
                        +1
                        There was a mammoth ... Vasilenko Vladimir ... Krasnoyarets ..

                        Better than Goethe, you will not say: "God, how great is your menagerie!"

                        R.S. Robyat, and you honestly..the mood you raised to me .. laughing
                        So that hi
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 15 New
                        -3
                        as usual, "yourself" instead of a decent answer
                        can you refute me with examples or indicate where I told a lie?
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 57 New
                      +3
                      it feels like there’s a conversation with the wall ... NOBODY OFFERED even changing the inscription! Veterans have suggested ADD inscription in this complex. Not necessarily even next to the phrase Klochkova! Why do you compose nonsense for yourself and then take offense at it? These beinensons have dodged a provocative little article with a quirky syllable, and you are glad to learn.
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 35 New
              +2
              And in your city remained the streets of Lenin, Marx, Soviet, Communist, Proletarian, Engels and others? Or renamed? By the way, Tver is a former Kalinin. Do not want to make a moan about the renaming of "Russian" names in Russia?
              1. smsk
                smsk 26 March 2013 23: 48 New
                +2
                And where are the names of the cities of Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk? In Russia, this is also not all right
                1. Denis
                  Denis 27 March 2013 00: 11 New
                  +2
                  Quote: smsk
                  In Russia, this is also not all right
                  All pretty squinted, but you need to stop sometime!
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 13: 38 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Denis
                    All pretty squinted, but you need to stop sometime!

                    Then maybe it’s better to start with yourself, and not start blaming a neighbor for what you’re doing yourself?
                    1. Denis
                      Denis 27 March 2013 18: 05 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      start with yourself, not start blaming a neighbor
                      I’m trying, is it just that, thoughts are not a switch on the chic brain switch
                      Is it a change of names, or rather a return
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk
                      someone is offended. Unless Stalingrad, but here it’s difficult
                      It's about cities, and with a monument, to paraphrase the Nikitins, a big HZ for a small, for a small company like this, a huge such HZ
                      If truth is served, then disgust
                      If you write, it’s even worse. Not in Kazakhstan, in the fact that who starts it all
                      So huge such HZ
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 30 New
                  +3
                  Quote: smsk
                  And where are the names of the cities of Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk? In Russia, this is also not all right

                  When the “Soviet” names are erased in Russia, this is normal in the eyes of the Russians. And when they do it abroad, they begin to form hysteria. At the same time, they are modestly silent about the fact that in independent Kazakhstan they quietly give names in honor of non-Kazakhs (I will list some new names of Almaty and Astana) - Pushkin, Zataevich, Potanin, Gumilyov, Kubrin, Uspensky, Goncharov, Yanushkevich, Paklievsky, Zverev, Sidorkin, Radostovtsa, Kolpakovsky, Ivanov-Sokolsky, Zenkov, Town Hall, Nikolskaya, Prokofiev, Kravtsov, Scriabin, Katchenko, Radlov, i.e. in honor of those people that Kazakhstan is proud of. We have enough “our” Russian personalities, after whom the Kazakhs call the streets, perpetuating the memory of them.
              2. ultra
                ultra 27 March 2013 12: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                And in your city remained the streets of Lenin, Marx, Soviet, Communist, Proletarian, Engels and others?

                In our stay! hi
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 13: 21 New
                  +2
                  for the sake of interest I looked at the street lists - you have enough erased names in Lipetsk - Molotov, Kaganovich, Stalin, Mikoyan, etc.
                  1. ultra
                    ultra 27 March 2013 14: 13 New
                    0
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    you have enough erased names in Lipetsk - Molotov, Kaganovich, Stalin, Mikoyan, etc.
                    These were renamed during the USSR in the late 50s! hiIn general, I am for the return of historical names! hi
              3. Was mammoth
                Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 30 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                And in your city remained the streets of Lenin, Marx, Soviet, Communist, Proletarian, Engels and others? Or renamed? By the way, Tver is a former Kalinin. Do not want to make a moan about the renaming of "Russian" names in Russia?

                Yes, they stayed. I am for the Spanish experience - when in disputed places they use two or even three names
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 21: 43 New
                  +1
                  Was Mammoth, are you from Ryazan? Then what is it:

                  MAYOR OF THE CITY OF RYAZAN
                  DECISION
                  from 29 December 1993 N N 1042
                  ON THE RESTORATION OF HISTORICAL NAMES OF THE STREETS OF THE CITY OF RYAZAN

                  Considering the numerous wishes of the residents of the city, the proposals and conclusions of the commission on the name of urban facilities and in connection with the preparations for the 900th anniversary of the founding of the city of Ryazan, I decide:

                  1. To restore the historical names of streets in the central part of the city:
                  Revolution Street - in Cathedral Street
                  Podbelsky Street - to Pochtovaya Street
                  Lenin Street - to Astrakhan Street
                  Griboedov street - to Starogorshechnaya street
                  Shchedrin Street - to Nagornaya Street
                  Uritsky Street - to Priklonskaya Street (N 28 to N 69)
                  Polonsky Street - to Dvoryanskaya Street
                  Radishchev Street - to Zaryady Street
                  Frunze Street - to Pevcheskaya Street
                  Pozhalostina street - to Seleznevskaya street
                  Chapaev Street - to Rogozhinskaya Street
                  Yakhontov street - to Dyakonovskaya street
                  Kudryavtseva street - to Malomeshchanskaya street
                  Kalyaev Street - to Bolshaya Meshchanskaya Street
                  part of Pavlova street from N 1 to N 24 - to Nikolskaya street
                  part of Liebknecht street from N 24 to N 66 - to Voznesenskaya street
                  part of Liebknecht street from N 67 to N 145 - to Vvedenskaya street
                  part of the street Workers from N 18 to the end - in Dukhovskaya street
                  part of Sverdlov street from N 1 to N 24 - to Nikolodvoryanskaya street
                  part of Sverdlov Street from N 23 to N 56 - to Pravolybedskaya Street
                  part of Freedom Street from N 2 to N 56 - to Vladimirskaya Street
                  part of Freedom Street from N 61 to the end - to Malshinsky Street
                  Nekrasov street - to Boldyrevskaya street
                  Furmanov street - to Monastyrskaya street
                  Koltsova street - to Gorshechny Ryad street
                  2. To instruct the Bureau of Technical Inventory to draw up and bring to all interested organizations the numbering scheme of residential buildings, public and industrial buildings on the streets that received the previous names.
                  3. The Department of Urban Prefectures, together with the prefecture of the Soviet District, the housing authorities of departments and organizations to ensure phased re-registration of citizens, the installation of new corner stencils with street names, license plates of residential buildings and public buildings. (Duration - 1994).
                  4. To instruct the Department of Architecture and Urban Planning in the 1st quarter of 1994 to submit an agreed project proposal for the reconstruction of the central square of the city for the subsequent adoption of a decision on its name.
                  5. Control is assigned to the first deputy mayor of the city for the organization of management of V. Shanin. Report progress on September 01.09.1994, XNUMX.

                  Mayor of Ryazan
                  V.V. RYUMIN
                  1. Was mammoth
                    Was mammoth 27 March 2013 23: 04 New
                    0
                    By order of Ryumin, a monument to Lenin in Ryazan was demolished. Now he is again standing in its historical place. And I wrote to you about Spain for good reason.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 30 New
        0
        Nowadays, trends about reburial, dismantling of monuments of the Soviet era, as you think, may be fashionable. Maybe we can also move this monument to a better place. And in its place to put just a monument to the victims of the December 1986 Events?
        It’s so uncomfortable standing on Zheltoksan St. and the view is closed, and in general, many Almaty residents do not like its location.


        What about heroes? Who are they why I don’t know? Enlighten

        it's about Victory Day
        I suggest everyone for whom this holiday is not important, send somewhere to Samoli or to Syria
  • antidote
    antidote 26 March 2013 20: 47 New
    +5
    Most Russians will never say anything bad about the Kazakhs. And the article is provocative, so that we dog here with each other. At least a little, but the author is pleased
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 05 New
    -1
    unfortunately - the water is grinding away the stone and the fact that the period when we were a single state is now mostly presented as a great grief for the Kazakhs, too, will gradually give their sprouts.
    read the comments on azattyk, law.kz and the like
  • Lignitz
    Lignitz 26 March 2013 18: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Iraclius
    Oho-ho ... Somehow I wanted to go to Krasnovodsk, where my great-grandfather was buried and was surprised to learn that such a city does not exist, but there is an epic Turkmenbashi. I had such a face - belay .
    Soon, people who do not know the Turkic language in Asia will have nothing to do. The language can be broken: Burabai audany. recourse
    And if they also switch to the Latin alphabet, then in general a nightmare.

    Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.
    1. Earthman
      Earthman 26 March 2013 18: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Lignitz
      Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.

      This is still the most famous, if you dig deeper, it will generally be like excavating dinosaurs, only them in the ground, and digging out words in words)))
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 26 March 2013 21: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: Earthman
        Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.
        This is still the most famous, if you dig deeper, it will generally be like excavating dinosaurs, only them in the ground, and digging out words in words)))

        This is us in the course. Suleimenova passed. Türks (Kazakhs) descendants of the Sumerians, Russians borrowed almost all the defining words from the Türks, a little directly from the Sumerians in some way, the rest from the Europeans. This Russian is a Turkic union of 12 tribes led by with Turks, Thuringia, Tuscany, Balts, etc.
        To elevate the steppe without lowering the mountains is, in principle, an impossible task.
        Petukhov was looking for a proto-language in us, in Kazakhstan Suleimenov.
        Let them look for nothing to do.
        1. Lignitz
          Lignitz 27 March 2013 05: 22 New
          +2
          You can’t forbid a person to conduct a search, if Suleimenov writes something, it should not bother anyone, they do not force anyone to accept his point of view. When he released his book, he did not think that any one out of a thousand readers would disagree. He just wanted to voice his point of view. I don’t agree, the flag is in your hands! Do not bother others with self-knowledge. And you should carefully read the word about Igor’s regiment. I read the comments of Likhachev, other researchers and scientists, all of them could not explain the difficult places, many words incomprehensible to the modern Russian ear of that era. The only person who got to the point = Suleimenov, so there was such frantic bullying, even forced the books to be withdrawn from sale and burned. Such a shameful reprisal over the book led to the book "Az and I" in price was equal in price to the price of Lada. And when the same Russian scientists (not the illiterate crowd!) Trampled on this book, it means that everything was TRUE !!!!
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 27 March 2013 08: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Lignitz
            I do not agree, the flag in your hands!

            Poking is not good. At the educational program you obviously did not learn courtesy.
          2. baltika-18
            baltika-18 27 March 2013 09: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Lignitz
            The only person who hit the point = Suleimenov

            Especially in the place when he announced the agreement between the Tatar and Kazakh priests on the use of the letters "e" and "i." He also invented a time machine ..... laughing
          3. baltika-18
            baltika-18 27 March 2013 09: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Lignitz
            And you need to carefully read the Word about Igor’s regiment.

            By the way, I have no particular complaints about the book "Asia" ............
            But the other opus of Suleimenov is something, and he has a peculiarity, it starts to seem normal, but the further into the forest, the more firewood.
            One of his vision of the development of civilization is worth it. People fled from the scorching sun to the north, I quoted him. Apparently some were so carried away by the run that they only stopped on the coast of the northern seas.
    2. Iraclius
      Iraclius 26 March 2013 20: 41 New
      0
      Why exaggerate? It is one thing when a word entered the language a thousand years ago and another thing when they begin to rename the names of streets, cities, which was why in vain. What are the obstacles to Russian city names in Kazakhstan? Do they hurt national identity? What is it?
      Earthman, and you do not assent, but rather say that the Kazakh language is a classic example of purism and there are no borrowings in it. Or not and am I mistaken?
      You know very well that it is difficult for a newcomer to navigate city street names if they are not written in their native language. Why is this rubbish with Turkic roots in Russian?
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 26 March 2013 23: 01 New
        +3
        Quote: Iraclius
        "What is this nonsense with Turkic roots in Russian?"

        Poet Konstantin Simonov in a letter to O. Suleimenov about his book "Az and I": “The most important thing for me in the book is the approach to history - tough and at the same time fair. Putting the question in your book, a look at the story that is not at all breathing - where I turned and left, I’m close and dear as a Soviet writer, finally as a person, from childhood biased towards the history of his people, as it is, and with sweet and with the bitter. "
  • ak orda
    ak orda 26 March 2013 18: 06 New
    17
    Russians in Russia and Russians in Kazakhstan - do not succumb to such provocations, no one is going to change the inscription on the monument. I myself am a Kazakh by nationality, I have Russian friends, they are like brothers to me! No wonder they say that Russia is a generous soul, I myself have been convinced of this! There are simply bad people in every nation, but this is not a reason to insult the whole nation.
    Glory to the fallen soldiers! Glory! And the Kazakhs, and Russian, Belarusians, Ukrainians, the Soviet Union !!! In unity is only our POWER. Respect each other, love and appreciate. The West does not want to come to terms with the fact that in Eurasia a new pole of FORCE, UNITY and Brotherhood - the Eurasian Union! Glory to the Union! May the Lord Almighty protect our Presidents Putin, Nazarbayev and Lukashenko! Peace be with you, friends !!
    1. Fox
      Fox 26 March 2013 18: 15 New
      +9
      Quote: ak orda
      I myself am a Kazakh by nationality, I have Russian friends, they are like brothers to me!

      ++++++++ I am Russian. I live in Samara. In the 90s and 00s I fought with the Kazakhs along with drug trafficking. Hello guys from Uralsk!
      1. ak orda
        ak orda 26 March 2013 18: 20 New
        +6
        Mutually! Yes, the situation with drugs is certainly not for the better, but we must fight together, because they want to destroy the amers - with drugs, alcohol, tobacco and ethnic conflicts. But I'm sure - we all now know what their purpose is.
    2. max73
      max73 26 March 2013 19: 03 New
      +6
      life has taught that any information received must be divided in two, but I agree with you! I live in the Saratov region, where there are many Kazakhs and I can’t say anything bad about this people. the article in some places, I think, is provocative, as well as the comments (and in other news, too) of some characters ... there are too many trolls .. on the other hand, since the trolls are pulling for “review”, this is an indicator of the importance and necessity of this resource
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 26 March 2013 23: 39 New
        +2
        By the way, Saratov is from the "Sary Tau" ("Yellow Mountains / Hills").
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 26 March 2013 23: 50 New
          0
          However, now this hypothesis is refuted, since Sokolovaya was never yellow, and the forest always grew on it.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 42 New
            +1
            Falcon Mountain in the paintings and in the photo:





            Saratov local historian A.F. Leopoldov: "... The name Saratov consists of two words: sary - yellow and tau - mountain, and probably came from a high rocky, clay-colored mountain lying against the city on the right bank of the Volga."


            Geographical names of the world: Toponymic dictionary. - M: AST. Pospelov E.M. 2001 .:
            "Saratov - a city, Ts. Saratov region. Founded in 1590 as a fortified city of Saratov. The name is associated with its position on the high ave. Of the Volga, surrounded by mountains, the most noticeable of which was marked by the yellowness of its slopes. The local Turkic-speaking population it was known as Sarytau - 'yellow mountain' (Turk, Sary 'yellow', may 'mountain'). The name of the mountain was extended to the surrounding area and in a somewhat distorted form was then adopted for the name of the city of Saratov. It is also known that the city was founded on the low left bank and therefore the “mountain” etymology should be rejected, however, the latest data do not confirm this point of view."
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 14: 05 New
              -2
              Well, the opinion of the political officer is the only true and final
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 20: 18 New
                0
                Vova, did you even bother to read the information?
        2. Lignitz
          Lignitz 27 March 2013 06: 01 New
          +2
          the word Sarah in the Kazakh language has two meanings: Yellow and Gold
        3. baltika-18
          baltika-18 27 March 2013 15: 33 New
          -2
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          By the way, Saratov is from the "Sary Tau" ("Yellow Mountains / Hills").

          And in Saransk and Sarov what yellow was found?
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 20: 20 New
            +1
            But what did the Turks live in Saransk and Sarov? these are Mordovian lands. where does the word "sary"?
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 27 March 2013 21: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              But what did the Turks live in Saransk and Sarov?

              Sound series of the Russian language ZS
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 27 March 2013 21: 20 New
              -2
              And what does Sarai have to do with Saratov?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 21: 44 New
                +2
                because before the arrival of the Russians, only Turks lived there.
                1. Was mammoth
                  Was mammoth 27 March 2013 23: 05 New
                  0
                  Or Bulgars?
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 08 New
                    0
                    well, for the sake of truth, these are Turkic-speaking tribes, undoubtedly the Turks and Slavs from ancient times lived side by side, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not very
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 02 New
                    +1
                    different Turks lived. Bulgars, by the way, are also Türks, if you do not remember.
    3. Bort radist
      Bort radist 26 March 2013 19: 34 New
      +9
      Quote: ak orda
      Russians in Russia and Russians in Kazakhstan - do not succumb to such provocations

      I was born in the Kazakh SSR in the village of Sandyktav, my parents took me to Kuzbass, at 3 months. Grew up in Siberia. Often traveled to Zerenda with his grandfather and grandmother. Now they are in the Kazakh land, I have a tribe, an uncle, and cousins. The names of Kokchetav, Idabul for me sound like a song about the Motherland. Provocations of all this.
      1. ak orda
        ak orda 26 March 2013 19: 38 New
        +3
        Hello! Nice to hear that smile
        1. Bort radist
          Bort radist 26 March 2013 20: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: ak orda
          Hello! Nice to hear that

          Goodnight good
  • marshes
    marshes 26 March 2013 18: 42 New
    +8
    The Russian search association Panther Trail discovered that the burial place of Hero of the Soviet Union, sniper Alia Moldagulova in the Pskov Region is empty, reports the Lenta.kz portal.

    This became known after the search engines began to study archival military documents. It turned out that the Hero of the Soviet Union and hundreds of Kazakhstanis who fought for the liberation of Pskov still rest in the forest. Panther's Trail in the summer of 2013 is preparing an expedition to the place where Aliya Moldagulova was actually buried. Now there are impassable forests and swamps. A delegation of the Combat Brotherhood Public Foundation from Almaty also joined the Russians and flew to Pskov.

    Alia Moldagulova came to the front in August 1943. She fought as part of the 54th Rifle Brigade of the 22nd Army of the 2nd Baltic Front. On the account of Moldagulova there were 78 killed fascists. She was mortally wounded and died in battle on January 14, 1944 north of the city of Novosokolniki. On June 4, 1944, Corporal Aliya Moldagulova was posthumously awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/zahoronenie-alii-moldagulovoy-okazalos-pust
    yim-230788 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz
    1. ak orda
      ak orda 26 March 2013 18: 47 New
      +6
      Thank you, swamps for the information!
  • nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 26 March 2013 19: 20 New
    +3
    the author go for a walk, the information is old, the inscription as it was and will remain, they already wrote about this and spoke in the news. I understand the site’s administration from where you get the money, but it’s dirty, the political situation and public opinion inside the country are not checked. And sometimes monitor the Internet, otherwise it turns out you don’t have a website, but a garbage dump, stupid copy-paste from other sites and plagiarism, they started well. Good to the Beinensons In Russia - the lasses sharpen on radio and TV and teach Russians how to "equip Russia"
  • Alibekulu
    Alibekulu 26 March 2013 19: 36 New
    +5
    The only thing that I probably liked about the article was about:
    Great Kazakhstan!!! laughing smiled ..
    GY.: For the Great Kazakhstan ... wassat
    1. ak orda
      ak orda 26 March 2013 19: 50 New
      +6
      Well, why so? It can be seen that the article is provocative. Yes, my country is not great and mighty like Russia, but I am sure that a bright future awaits us, without wars, a feud, that we will live peacefully and coexist with our allies.
  • 120352
    120352 26 March 2013 19: 53 New
    0
    And I didn’t doubt this “friendship” with Kazakhstan, especially after my relatives were trampled from there for being Russian.
    1. ak orda
      ak orda 26 March 2013 20: 05 New
      +6
      It can’t be like that, or you are transmitting or distorting the situation incorrectly or .... maybe you are telling the truth. If this is true, then of course it is necessary to bring people to justice. But remember the story about Shanyrak, Bakai - there women and old people, children were evicted from their homes by corrupt bureaucrats, their homes were demolished by bulldozers. Special forces were brought. but of course I’m writing not in order to justify myself, but in order for you to know that it was not we, the Kazakhs of your relatives, who were evicted, but the bureaucrats.
      about friendship - you should not have mentioned it in quotation marks, remember how the 90th Nazarbayev tried with all his might to preserve the alliance, and the fact that recently news about the cooperation of the Turkic states has been heard is normal, because we are part of the Turkic civilization, like Russia, for example, Slavic. It is important to think about what unites us, and not what separates us.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 26 March 2013 21: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: ak orda
        It’s important to think about what unites us,

        We are united by the past .....
        And it is necessary that the future unites.
        We need a general idea, but it doesn’t exist, money is not a motive, but a reason for welding.
        1. ak orda
          ak orda 26 March 2013 21: 57 New
          +2
          I did not mean money. There is a general idea - this is the Eurasian Union. This is the CSTO. This is the Customs Union. Now is the era of globalization, the West wants to surround Russia around the entire perimeter with non-friendly and unstable states, the West wants domestic problems to spread to you. The Anaconda strategy is what is happening around Russia now. Remember how the anaconda attacks - it grasps, slowly but surely swallows it, the victim does not escape. In the west of Russia there are unfriendly Baltic countries, Ukraine is unstable, the Caucasus region is Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, the Far East is Japan, unstable neighbors like the DPRK, and ambitious China. Do you feel like Russia is like an anaconda, start to choke?
          1. Smoke
            Smoke 27 March 2013 05: 55 New
            -3
            that’s all right, but only personally you need to clarify one simple thing: Russia is a subcontinent with completely and completely self-sufficient resources and with the POSSIBILITY to wipe absolutely any army and country from the face of the Earth for 40 min, and the right of a preventive strike is written in our military doctrine if these "anaconda hugs" become too annoying.
            Therefore, it is first of all for your country to think about anacondas and not for us, it’s quite nice for us now to live without you: I have my own small business, and I also work on a shift - enough to raise and properly educate children and travel once a year where is the thread to the warm seas, once a year because a lot of business unfortunately is not a renewable resource.
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek 26 March 2013 20: 30 New
    +1
    Your relatives escaped from a sinking ship for a better life, and now they say they kicked out. Everyone calmly sold it and left quietly, they say there’s nothing to do, everything will fall apart, and we will live as sheikhs in Russia. Now Kazakhstan is watching the most successful CIS and the toad takes. And at the expense of monuments we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 26 March 2013 20: 43 New
      +1
      Kazakhstan is the most successful in the CIS and the toad takes

      From this place more, please.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 27 March 2013 16: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Iraclius
        From this place more, please.

        You're welcome hi For example, Roy MEDVEDEV:
        "I have accumulated a lot of materials on the CIS, which I collected for ten years. When I began to look at and analyze them, I discovered that of all the CIS countries, Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia had the greatest successes.
        Russian press ignores Kazakhstan’s successes - by many indicators of a market economy, by the stability of the political situation ... You did not have such a decline as in Russia in 1994 — 1996 ... In addition, Kazakhstan did not experience political crises that we had in 1993 and 1996 ... There are many reasons, and I am analyzing them now. It just surprised me that the Russian press is silent about the fact that in a number of CIS republics the situation is much better and we have something to learn from them ...

        http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.kazpravda.kz/rus
        /obshtestvo/roj_medvedev_uspehi_kazahstana_menja_udivili.html
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 26 March 2013 21: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Kazbek
      And at the expense of monuments we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you.

      And it’s worth it ....... Nobody is ready to demolish.
    3. Denis
      Denis 26 March 2013 22: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: Kazbek
      we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you
      Here it is, unfinished, standing
      about the mausoleum on Red Square, believe without a photo?
  • elmi
    elmi 26 March 2013 21: 27 New
    +7
    I think that the West is trying to drive a wedge between Kazakhstan and Russia, because among the neighbors the closest allies of Russia are Kazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia. In the Baltic countries, the West managed to quarrel. Such articles are a kind of provocation, assessment of the reaction or probing of the soil. We need to think deeper, read between the lines.
  • darksoul
    darksoul 26 March 2013 22: 31 New
    +2
    Kazakhstan, the sovereign state has the right to decide what to write there, but do not forget that it is our common memory, you can erect a new monument, but why change what was done by our grandfathers? they have done a lot for us so that we live in peace, but something doesn’t work out for us
  • Denis
    Denis 26 March 2013 22: 42 New
    0
    planned to replace the inscription with one of the others
    And there pigeon fun-monuments to pledge came
  • Earthman
    Earthman 27 March 2013 00: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: max73
    too many trolls have become .. on the other hand, since trolls are pulling out for "viewing", this is an indicator of the importance and necessity of this resource

    Here you are right. This project, Military Review, has decent chances of becoming a serious and convenient observer, by inviting a couple of serious journalists the site may even get away from the current articles by unprofessional moderators. It is worth noting that there are good moderators, they are also people and such as Ascetic, who lived in different countries, know the culture and relations of peoples firsthand.

    An indicator of the movement of society in a normal and adequate direction has always been and will always be professional trolls.
    For example, Central Asian trolls like: Omar Khayyam, Khoja Nassredin, Aldar Kose, or Russian Pushkin, Tolstoy, all of them for their time are trolls who put the church in its place, or rather the patriarchs
    1. Denis
      Denis 27 March 2013 00: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Earthman
      a couple of serious journalists the site can generally get away from the current articles of unprofessional moderators
      The representatives of the most ancient profession are not needed here for nothing. A professional journalist can equally well cover any event with a + sign and right there -. They made lies by their work. So let there be lay people, lies and enough in the media
      Yes, and many will read them?
      1. Earthman
        Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Denis
        The representatives of the most ancient profession are not needed here for nothing. A professional journalist can equally well cover any event with a + sign and right there -. They made lies by their work. So let there be lay people, lies and enough in the media
        Yes, and many will read them?

        by professional, I mean good faith
  • implacable
    implacable 27 March 2013 03: 44 New
    +4
    It is necessary to respect the right of the Kazakhs to name the streets of their cities at their discretion, but this is such a trifle in general, names, etc., it is important to understand the other thing, that to maintain identity in the conditions of the global imposition of multiculturalism, for such a not very large people like Kazakhs, it is only possible subject to the construction of a national state, naturally without prejudice to the rights of other ethnic groups in Kazakhstan.
    ps I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian and my son is half Russian, everyone writes)
    1. Smoke
      Smoke 27 March 2013 06: 20 New
      -4
      Nobody encroached on their right to call the streets of their cities. The only thing is that cities in Kazakhstan were 95% built and founded by Russians (Russian-speaking), and if you ignore this fact, you are either a troll or a very narrow-minded person.
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 27 March 2013 21: 46 New
        0
        Quote: Smoke
        Nobody encroached on their right to call the streets of their cities. The only thing is that cities in Kazakhstan were 95% built and founded by Russians (Russian-speaking), and if you ignore this fact, you are either a troll or a very narrow-minded person.

        Well, what about then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad or Tsaritsyn, Stalingrad, Volgograd. So someone can change, but someone can not. Double standards? Or the main thing is that they are named in Russian.
        1. Denis
          Denis 27 March 2013 22: 23 New
          +3
          Quote: Semurg
          as then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad
          Here at least do not rave. The native name was returned, in the 90th the referendum was about
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 21: 58 New
        +1
        And did Kaliningrad and Astrakhan also establish the Russians? Can we return the names of Koenigsberg and Haji-Tarkhan to them?
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 55 New
          +1
          perhaps it will be renamed if the KO again becomes East Prussia, but for now it is the region of the Russian Federation ...
          1. Earthman
            Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            perhaps it will be renamed if the KO becomes East Prussia again, but for now it is the region of the Russian Federation.

            Are you by any chance a neo-Imperial? sorry for the question
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 17 New
              -3
              don't jerk
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 04 New
            +1
            then, according to your logic, what right do you have to interfere with the names on the territory of Kazakhstan? What have we become part of the Russian Federation?
    2. Denis
      Denis 27 March 2013 06: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Relentless

      It is necessary to respect the right of Kazakhs to name the streets of their cities at their discretion
      Not about the same conversation. Let them call, but the inscription on the monument should not be edited
      So you can slide down before editing the story
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 50 New
        +4
        no one is going to erase Klochkov’s phrase in the KZ. it zhurnalyugi invented a sensation out of the blue.
        in fact, just one of the veterans wanted to add a phrase about the heroes of Kazakhstan in addition to the existing inscriptions, but the city administration did not even discuss this issue. all. topic is closed. but media people need to inflate the topic to a global scale. Fortunately, there are always people who "lead" on delusional inventions.
        1. Denis
          Denis 27 March 2013 18: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          The media people need to inflate the topic to a global scale. Fortunately, there are always people who "lead" on delusional inventions.
          If so (see about HZ), then they succeeded.
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 37 New
        -1
        Quote: Denis
        So you can slide down before editing the story

        already rolled
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 11: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Relentless
      ps I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian

      and I have Ukrainian)
      1. Beck
        Beck 27 March 2013 12: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Quote: inexorable. I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian. Marek - I have - Ukrainian)


        Well, then I'm in a bunch. My wife is a cross between a Kazakh and a Ukrainian.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 12: 38 New
          +2
          good Ukrainians are Slavic female beauty plus “Mongolian” cheekbones. Ukrainians are the most beautiful women in the world. and the Ukrainian cooking rich borsch is a divine picture, from which I instantly pacify and become fluffy))))
        2. Gur
          Gur April 1 2013 13: 23 New
          0
          Well, what are you so "crossbreeding", probably an avid dog breeder? Not good like that ..
    4. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Relentless
      building a national state, of course, without prejudice to the rights of other ethnic groups in Kazakhstan.

      How's that?
  • implacable
    implacable 27 March 2013 04: 38 New
    +1
    author of the article Beinenson, well, everything is clear.
  • Smoke
    Smoke 27 March 2013 05: 37 New
    -1
    got acquainted. I condemn in general ANY interference in the memorials of the generation of WINNERS. WINNERS did not look who of them there was by nation, Russian Kazakh or the Baltic states (yes, not all the Balts in the WaffenSS fought against us).
    And in this case, I just want to note the fact that modern generations (grandchildren and great-grandchildren of WINNERS) have simply sold and betrayed the CASE of their ancestors. Try to tell the victorious Kazakh (for example, the same Moldagulova. If she was alive now) that the Russians are scoundrels and colonialists, that the Russians poisoned and starved the Kazakhs - GREAT TURKS TO BLAT !!! Yes, there, Moldagulova herself would have arrested VILIKAVA TURK and sent to the direction of the Solar City to mine gold and bring real benefits to the country.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 12: 02 New
      +5
      Smoke, your reaction is not clear at all. Have you carefully read the topic? Nobody encroached on Klochkov’s inscription.
      2) Kazakhs did not "sell" anything. the memory of the Second World War is honored in our country more than in Russia.
      3) do not turn it over - Kazakhs do not call Russian villains. and re-read about SOVIET materials on the history of the Kazakh SSR, Uzbek SSR, Kyrgyz SSR, TurkmenSSR, TajSSR about colonization. It is openly written everywhere that tsarist Russia pursued a COLONIAL policy in the region with all the consequences, and that it oppressed the local population. The Kazakhs did not add anything new to this section; in fact, the same is written as in the textbooks of the Soviet period.
      Regarding hunger, the first leader of Kazakhstan, Goloshchekin, was named the culprit, who pursued an idiotic cannibalistic policy here (then he was shot for the Holodomor by order of Stalin). Nobody blames the Russian people, blame the Soviet government for the catastrophe that happened. At the same time, the Kazakhs are not silent about the pluses of the Soviet regime in other areas. Another thing is that hysteria in the Russian media grabs only certain phrases and presents nonsense to the Russians, taken out of context, exposing the Kazakhs in a nationalistic form. You, for example, are easily led to such articles. They’ll point a finger at someone and say: “Atu him!” And you’re glad to show your patriotism without thinking about the situation.
  • VVooVVaa
    VVooVVaa 27 March 2013 06: 26 New
    +2
    And I was really indignant at Shaw. The monument was repaired FOUR years ago. Replaced real granite with modern tiles. and now, after several years, re-repair again!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 12: 21 New
      +2
      The ensemble was built in 1975. Since then, they have never carried out repairs, only in 2005 did partial repairs. And only last year did capital repairs.
      By the way, they did quite normally.
      1. Gur
        Gur April 1 2013 13: 28 New
        0
        I didn’t notice anything capital, not yesterday, not today, the monument was really closed for access since last fall, it’s cut down pine trees from the capital, I don’t see anything like that, along the pine trees in front of the monument, an avenue of glory was cut down and planted with new fir trees, in some places there are no steles while the tablets are standing.
  • Nomad
    Nomad 27 March 2013 09: 18 New
    +3
    Quote: erased
    The neighbors have only one tendency - either to deny the Great Patriotic War and consider it evil (the Baltic states, Georgia), or to stick out the feats of their own (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, etc.)

    We, the Kazakhs, are proud of our common victory of the Soviet people and separately (in the sense of additional) the contribution of the Kazakhs to it, the more we have something to be proud of. What's bad about it? And nobody sticks out anything.
    1. Gur
      Gur April 1 2013 13: 35 New
      -1
      It is somehow interesting, we are proud of the joint Soviet victory, but Russians are to blame for the rest of the Soviet, or we can only be proud of the fact that, as stated above, “we can trump it” (forgive me for not accurately quoting)
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek 27 March 2013 09: 31 New
    +4
    95% say that we should now consult with you all your life about how to live and what to do. We didn’t howl, they threw us in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, do what you want, live whatever you want, and now we are told how to call us the streets. We have the streets of Taran and there are Leonid Beda’s streets, and no one is going to remake monuments and they never speak badly about WWII and don’t walk the streets with swastikas like in some countries.
  • Nomad
    Nomad 27 March 2013 15: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: Kazbek
    .We have the streets of Taran and the streets of Leonid Beda,

    Timiryazev, Gagarin, Gogol, Pushkin, Lugansk - these are just a few modern street names in Almaty. Russian names of small streets do not count.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 16: 39 New
      0
      but there is such
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 20: 49 New
        +2
        1) If it were "Kazakh nationalists", then they would not have touched Kanash Kamzin Street.
        2) And should there be Kutuzov street in Kazakhstan? Are there streets in Russia in honor of the commanders Subudai, Jebe, Kabanbai, Bogembai and others? Is Kutuzov somehow connected with Kazakhstan, the Kazakhs, at least indirectly? Why should Kazakhs honor Kutuzov’s memory? I understand that in Russia they are proud of him; he has done a lot for Russia, and what about Kazakhstan? That we do not have our own Russians, after whom we can name the streets?
        3) The writer Korolenko is also an abstract surname for Kazakhs. This name does not cause us any emotions. He did nothing for the benefit of Kazakhstan or for the development of relations between Kazakhs and Russians. So why should we read it? Well, if he were the same amazing author as Pushkin or Lermontov (whose names are respected by the Kazakhs), but even in Russia people will not immediately remember what Korolenko wrote.

        ps what kind of idiots on the video - I have no idea. the first guy at the beginning of the video has some kind of suspicious accent.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 20: 54 New
          +1
          and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 21: 10 New
            -3
            your pan-Turkism is already tired.
            Well, if on the topic, then let's specifically which, where, when, what replaced
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 21: 31 New
              +1
              where did you, wonderful man, see pan-Turkism? can I, given your Ukrainian surname and "Russian sorrow" call you in this case - a panslavist and expose this in an allegedly negative sense?
              Well, the fact that you have no idea about the massive renaming of non-Russian names in Russia is understandable. if he knew the history of his country, then he could adequately perceive the history of neighbors. and so it turns out - I have not learned Kazakh history, but I have not yet managed to learn Russian history. therefore porridge in the head.
              and now the answer to the question:
              After Russia conquered Crimea in 1783, the process of renaming Turkic names began "to strengthen Russian rule in the newly annexed region, it was necessary to settle it purely Russian people," as newspapers wrote then. Then Adzhibey became Odessa, Akmechet - Simferopol, Kezlev - Evpatoria, Kefe - Feodosia, Aktiyar - Sevastopol, etc.
              And after the remnants of the Turkic population were expelled from there in 1944, an almost complete “sweeping” took place. The Presidium of the Supreme Council of the RSFSR on December 14, 1944, by decree No. 621/8 renamed 11 districts and 11 settlements from 26 regional centers, and by decree No. 619/3 of August 21, 1945 - 327 more villages, by decree No. 745/3 of May 18, 1948 - By the fourth anniversary of the eviction of the Crimean Tatars - another 1062 villages were renamed. 1400 original historical names of cities and villages were erased from the map of Crimea. More than 1000 altered hydronyms, names of mountains, landscape monuments, objects should also be attached to them.
              And there are hundreds and hundreds of such examples in Russia. Let me remind you that the historical name of Volgograd / Stalingrad mentioned in this topic is Tsaritsyn, which is formed from the Turkic "Sary su" ("Yellow Waters"; the local Turkic dialect is c-etak and the name sounded like "Tsars tsu"). And how many Kazakh names in Kazakhstan have been Russified - Kanisken - Ganyushkino, Burabay - Borovoe, Kyzylzhar - Petropavlovsk, Almaty - Alma-Ata, Zhambyl - Dzhambul, Shymkent - Chimkent, Akmola - Tselinograd, Karaganda - Karaganda, Zhayyk - Ural, Ert Esil - Ishim, Ile - Ili, Aktau - Shevchenko, Zharkent - Panfilov, etc.
              And you can also recall the decrees of 1948-1949 on renaming Finnish names in the Leningrad Region.
              And you can recall the renaming of German names in the Volga region.
              Vova, stop already making yourself a pioneer.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 38 New
                -2
                for the future, I will not answer your boorish posts, you may not respect me, this is your right, but please be respectful of decency
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 18 New
                  +2
                  you started to be rude a couple of months ago. you do it better than answering questions. so what hello is the answer. nothing to blame on the mirror.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 26 New
                    -3
                    there was plenty of answers to another question, that they contradict your postulates, and accordingly you are not accepted, you allow yourself rudeness even when they speak politely to you.

                    any example that contradicts your point of view you call false or invented, in connection with which the dispute with you is useless
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 09 New
                      +1
                      Vova, but don’t have to talk to me duplicitously. Are you playing in public trying to portray yourself as an intellectual trying to reason with the savage? You are frankly insulting and wondering why I refuse to speak with you. Don't you really naively understand the reason or is it a one-man show?

                      I write all my posts with facts. and you even manage to call the Saratov ethnographers and encyclopedic data "the words of a political instructor" because you cannot argue. that's why rushing rot.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 15 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        You really naively do not understand the reason, or is it one theater

                        Dear Marek!
                        I also know Vladimir well and his shortcomings in communication, as well as yours !!
                        It seems to me that we may not agree with each other, but we must try not to lose our face !!
                        It’s not necessary to speak to you, it’s enough to be tolerant of each other!
                        I understand it hard, but we didn’t come to fight here !!
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 27 March 2013 23: 38 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    you started to be rude a couple of months ago. you do it better than answering questions. so what hello is the answer. nothing to blame on the mirror.

                    You don’t be offended, but often you are rude to your interlocutors unnoticed by this and are harsh !!
                    Here it’s not chantrap who mostly talks to you, and not young people from society * raise fires * and people at least with sufficient life experience, keep this in mind!
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 43 New
                      +3
                      there are a sufficient number of people who impress me, and whom I respect, even if I do not agree with them on any issue. but besides them, there are also subjects like smoke and vasilenko, whom I cannot respect in any way, and I do not hide it. and I don’t care what their “life experience” is - one is bawling about what he taught the Kazakhs to urinate, the second is nonsense about “Kazakh oppression” and “Russian refugees”.
              2. Ascetic
                Ascetic 28 March 2013 01: 47 New
                +2
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                1400 original historical names of cities and villages were erased from the map of Crimea. More than 1000 altered hydronyms, names of mountains, landscape monuments, objects should also be attached to them.


                Man and nothing xnj Theodosius (given by God). It was founded in the VI century. BC e. Two centuries later, it became part of the Bosporus Kingdom, whose culture gradually acquired barbaric features. The last mention of Theodosius as a large shopping center dates back to 306 AD. e. The ancient city was blocked by medieval Kaffa, which the Turks called Kefe. After the annexation of Crimea to Russia, Feodosia, the original name was returned
                few people know that in the place of Simferopol from the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century BC was the capital of the Scythian state is Naples. In the 15th century, on the site of the city was the Tatar settlement Ak-Mosque, on the site of which in 1784 Simferopol (city of good) was founded. the name of the city is given by the rescript of Catherine II in February 1784,
                Evpatoria, from Greek "noble", a city near the bay and salt lakes appeared at the turn of the VI-V centuries BC. e., when the ancient Greeks founded Kerkinitida.
                Well, perhaps I agree with Hadzhibey-Odessa. , Well, Sevastopol is the oldest Chersonesos-Tauride with almost a biblical history (Andrew the First-Called). In 861, in Chersonesos, on the way to Khazaria, Saint Cyril (Constantine), gained the relics of Saint Clement. Here he found the alphabet (Cyrillic)[to name the village of Akhtiyar, which was located in a bay near the ruins of an ancient Chersonesos .. It’s already no way .. So the score of cities 1-4 is not in your favor.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 11: 11 New
                  +1
                  I do not argue at all about the Greek and other roots of the Crimean cities. yes, the Turkic-speaking people having seized this land, many names changed. but the tsarina of Russia, having captured Crimea (which had never been Slavic and had no Russian names there), herself erased the superimposed Turkic names and new ones. the Russians don’t notice this, and they are ready to pour a slop tank into a neighboring garden.
                  By the way, in the Crimea there were us. points in honor of both my family and in honor of the family of my mother. Now the names are completely Russian.

                  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1

                  % 8F:% D0% A1% D1% 91% D0% BB% D0% B0_% D0% 9A% D1% 80% D1% 8B% D0% BC% D0% B0 are the villages of Crimea. Click and see that under each Slavic name is hidden the original Turkic (less often German or some other).

                  Z.Y. Will the rest of our points count towards 4: 1?
              3. Beck
                Beck 28 March 2013 17: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Then Adzhibey became Odessa, Akmechet - Simferopol, Kezlev - Evpatoria, Kefe - Feodosia, Aktiyar - Sevastopol, etc.


                After the damn events of 1969, at the beginning of the 70s, all Korean and Chinese place names and village names were replaced by Russian ones. I’m not going to climb sites, anyone who wants to find it myself. But for sure. The district center Iman from which I served 10 kilometers was renamed Dalnorechensk. In the 80s I came across a map of Primorye and I did not find my Iman. I found out for a long time until knowledgeable people showed me at Dalnorechensk.
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 27 March 2013 23: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              your pan-Turkism is already tired.

              I just didn’t see Pan-Turkism !!
              Just a few years ago, in Moscow, residents of one of the districts did not want a bust of Heydar Aliyev to be put on their street, what now are the Russian enemies of Azerbaijanis?
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 37 New
                -3
                I’m just analyzing not only this branch, we can specifically talk about pan-Turkism, although here it is enough for him.

                By the way, what does the bust of your fellow countryman have to do with it ?!
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 27 March 2013 23: 42 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

                  I’m just analyzing not only this branch, we can specifically talk about pan-Turkism, although here it is enough for him.

                  By the way, where does the bust of your countryman

                  I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!
                  As for the bust, as I understand it, it was about renaming streets, why can't the street be named after Kutuzov?
                  About the inscription on the monument!
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 50 New
                    +1
                    the thing is that in the first place the street already has the name of Kutuzov, and whether the residents of the city like it or not, they need to ask not only the Kazakhs, but also other nationalities, including Russians, which make up 20 percent.
                    about pan-Turkism, Marek does not praise the Kazakhs, namely the Türks, the Slavs could communicate with the other world exclusively through the Türks, all the toponymy is borrowed from the Turkic languages, etc.
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 27 March 2013 23: 56 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      the thing is that in the first place the street already has the name of Kutuzov, and whether the residents of the city like it or not, they need to ask not only the Kazakhs, but also other nationalities, including Russians, which make up 20 percent.


                      Here you are wrong !!!
                      Just ask those people who live on this street !!
                      We also renamed many streets, I do not see tragedy in this !!
                      Why do I need Shaumyan Street, which turned out to be not shot, but died in India, or Amiryanov Street, whose coffins were empty when 26 Baku kammisars were re-buried !! Why do I need 26 Baku messengers street when they directly participated in the massacre on March 31, 1918 in Baku! ?
                      You are wrong in that!
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      about pan-Turkism, Marek does not praise the Kazakhs, namely the Türks, the Slavs could communicate with the other world exclusively through the Türks, all the toponymy is borrowed from the Turkic languages, etc.

                      I am a Turk and read Marek, I did not see this in his comments !!
                      Give examples !!
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 03 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Just ask those people who live on this street !!

                        I absolutely agree, but all and not on a national basis, did you watch the video about this "renaming"?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Give examples !!

                        so I gave you almost quotes, I'm sorry, but now I will not search for it with all due respect in the site archives
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 28 March 2013 00: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I absolutely agree, but all and not on a national basis, did you watch the video about this "renaming"?

                        No video watched!
                      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 11 New
                        0
                        it is attached below to one of my posts
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 48 New
                  -2
                  why not name Kutuzov Street in honor of Clausewitz or Guderian? so what? Germans, we also have enough lives. they also want to see their field marshals on the streets of Kazakhstan.
              2. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 45 New
                +2
                What is my "nationalism" expressed in? did I insult other people?
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay 28 March 2013 01: 54 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  What is my "nationalism" expressed in? did I insult other people?

                  I saw how you belittled other peoples, raising your own, but not in this thread !!
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 08: 53 New
                    +2
                    saying that the Uzbeks do not know how to fight? all Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs and Uzbeks have already scolded me in a personal mail for having offended them. ok, try not to touch this topic anymore.
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 28 March 2013 12: 38 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    saying that the Uzbeks do not know how to fight? all Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs and Uzbeks have already scolded me in a personal mail for having offended them. ok, try not to touch this topic anymore.

                    Not all))))
                    I did not write to you in the face, if I thought it was necessary, I wrote to you in the topics !!
                  3. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 14: 20 New
                    +2
                    Yarbai, don’t torture me, just tell me exactly what you mean. Where did you write to me about the nationalism allowed by me ???
                  4. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 30 March 2013 15: 41 New
                    0
                    Quote: Marek Rozny

                    Yarbai, don’t torture me, just tell me exactly what you mean. Where did you write to me about the nationalism allowed by me ???
                    do not suffer dear !!
                    In that topic, I compared you not to your advantage with your fellow countryman and my brother Dauren!
                    there was no question of nationalism, I am normal about this!
                    It’s just that you downplayed another people there!
                    Let's forget it!
            3. romb
              romb 28 March 2013 15: 26 New
              +1
              I saw how you belittled other nations, raising your

              If you proceed from the indicated, it turns out that on this site write only Natsik and shoviki?)))))
              There is not a single person who would not in one way or another elevate his people, while simultaneously not belittling others.
            4. Yarbay
              Yarbay 29 March 2013 00: 09 New
              0
              [quote = romb]
              If you proceed from the indicated, it turns out that on this site write only Natsik and shoviki?))))) [/ Quote]
              [quote = romb]
              How did you come to this conclusion?))))
              I turned to a specific person !!
              As far as I know in Russian, the word You do not always mean the plural !!
              ))
            5. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 29 March 2013 09: 33 New
              0
              the fact is that this is the favorite word of the Kazakh national governments, in order to become a "chauvinist" you do not need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express an opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
            6. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 29 March 2013 09: 33 New
              0
              the fact is that this is the favorite word of the Kazakh national governments, in order to become a "chauvinist" you do not need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express an opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
            7. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 29 March 2013 09: 40 New
              -2
              the fact is that this is the favorite word of the Kazakh national governments, in order to become a "chauvinist" you do not need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express an opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
            8. romb
              romb 29 March 2013 11: 26 New
              +1
              How did you come to this conclusion?))))

              From your comments:
              I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!


              Quote: Marek Rozny
              What is my "nationalism" expressed in?

              The following is an answer in which you indicate the signs of this phenomenon:
              I saw how you belittled other nations, exalting yours,

              I turned to a specific person !!

              And of course, you wanted to indicate to a specific person that he is a nationalist?))) Why should we generalize this way if each subject writing here falls under these signs?
              As far as I know in Russian, the word you do not always mean the plural !!))

              According to the existing requirements of office work, when addressing a respected person, the addressee could use pronouns with a capital letter. Even now, when sending correspondence (according to the unspoken rules of business circulation), it is customary to comply with these requirements.
            9. Yarbay
              Yarbay 30 March 2013 14: 08 New
              0
              Quote: romb
              From your comments:


              Please give an example or I will assume that you do not understand what you are reading and do not know what you are talking about !!!
              Quote: romb
              And of course, you wanted to indicate to a specific person that he is a nationalist?)))


              You will read the whole dialogue, then you can understand what I wanted to say to a particular person !!
              Read the comments carefully)))))))
              Quote: romb
              Ah, got it

              Something I doubt that you understand))))
              Quote: romb
              According to the existing requirements of office work, when addressing a respected person, the addressee could use pronouns with a capital letter

              Well?))))
              Why then did you get the idea that I consider all Natsik and Sshovikami ???
              and nationalism with Nazism (Natsik)) different things young man)))
            10. romb
              romb 30 March 2013 18: 39 New
              +1
              Please give an example or I will assume that you do not understand what you are reading and do not know what you are talking about !!!

              Dear Alibek, you force me to repeat myself.))) Well, what can you do for a good person !!!
              Here you are, Alibek, now asking a question to which I have already given an example, by the way, from your own comments.
              In particular, you pointed to the undeniable presence of nationalism in Marek’s comments:
              I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism,there is nationalism

              Further, Marek asks him to explain to him what his nationalism is expressed in. What did you bring as an example signs of the above phenomenon, such as:
              You belittled other nations, raising theirbut not in this thread !!

              So I asked you if you had simplified the situation too much by hastening to put a certain label on the person, because in this case, any of us who write on this site fall under the criteria specified in the commentary.
            11. Yarbay
              Yarbay 30 March 2013 19: 36 New
              0
              Quote: romb

              So I asked you if you had simplified the situation too much by hastening to put a certain label on a person


              no dear You have accused me that my words apply to everyone !!
              and we accept nationalism and Natsik ?? Do you understand the difference ??
              And why did you decide that all the writers on this site fall under this criterion ??
              I think a young man. You hurried with conclusions and they are completely not logical!
              Quote: romb
              In particular, you pointed out the indisputable presence of nationalism in the comments of Marek
              that's just the point, I talked about Marek's comments and only him !!
              And here the rest of the site users and I repeat in healthy nationalism I don’t see anything bad if other people are not belittling!
              And I think Marek is not a stupid person and understood what I mean and for what reason he wrote !!
              with respect!
            12. romb
              romb 31 March 2013 00: 52 New
              0
              Dear Alibek, I didn’t even have to blame you for anything and especially insult you in any way! I say this absolutely sincerely, without false goodwill. Simply, honestly, I was struck by a proposal in which the emphasis was placed on the nationalism of just my countryman. At the same time, I personally think that after the incoherent emotional mud poured out by individual Russian commentators, the form in which Marek expresses his thoughts about interethnic relations is, if not an indicator of tolerance, then more correct in essence for sure.
              and we accept nationalism and Natsik ??

              The confusion began due to a somewhat incorrect interpretation of the word. In this case, by the word "Natsik" I mean a nationalist and not a National Socialist (Nazi) - Nazi, fascist .....)))
              Respectfully!!!
  • baltika-18
    baltika-18 28 March 2013 11: 22 New
    0
    Quote: Yarbay
    I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!

    I agree, Alibek. I also watch, sometimes I get upset.
    It smells .....
    1. romb
      romb 28 March 2013 15: 29 New
      +1
      Yes, and you yourself, obviously do not smell like roses .........)))))
    2. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 29 March 2013 23: 20 New
      0
      Not well Marek sometimes, of course "carries" laughing
      But what smells like from you and especially Vasilenko .. wassat
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 29 March 2013 23: 31 New
        -3
        but let’s specifically and with examples, otherwise somehow all one is idle talk, insults are darkness, and how to prove your case is so zilch
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 March 2013 23: 56 New
        +1
        as always, all arguments end with minuses, very reasonably
      3. Yarbay
        Yarbay 31 March 2013 07: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

        as always, all arguments end with minuses, very reasonably

        I will put you a plus)))
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 30 March 2013 23: 45 New
    0
    Quote: Alibekulu
    But what smells of you and especially Vasilenko.

    If you mean me, then I hope that the fragrance of love for my Motherland and hatred of animals in human form comes from me!
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 March 2013 23: 57 New
    0
    it feels like you are running between Turkey and Azerbaijan
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 31 March 2013 07: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    it feels like you are running between Turkey and Azerbaijan

    Yes))))))))))
    One foot on the border))))))))))))))))))))
    I haven’t laughed so much for a long time)))
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 11 New
    +2
    of me a pan-Turkist - like a candy from guano. In my opinion, Vova, you don’t even understand what pan-Turkism is. you just think that this is some kind of abusive word that can be applied to any Turk-opponent))))) go read books. and then tell the Uzbek comrades on the site that I am a pan-Turkist, otherwise they don’t think so at all))))))
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic 28 March 2013 02: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: Yarbay
    Just a few years ago, in Moscow, residents of one of the districts did not want a bust of Heydar Aliyev to be put on their street, what now are the Russian enemies of Azerbaijanis?


    Mexico City decided to remove the bust of Aliyev. And in the cinema "Baku" on Usievich, a pedestal without a bust, in my opinion, is worth it, at least for one time. Then the monument was nevertheless put up but in Ulyanovsk. There, too, the attitude towards him is ambiguous. If you follow the logic of Marek, then what is the relationship of Aliyev with Ulyanovsk? or Mexico City? There is also a station in Buryatia, busts in Canada and Egypt. By the way, in Canada, in my opinion, they also dismantled it. In general, during the times of the USSR, Aliyev was the leader of the “union” scale and in Moscow he deserved at least a commemorative plaque (there is one in St. Petersburg). And in Ulyanovsk, a monument, in my opinion, is nonsense.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 28 March 2013 02: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Ascetic
      Mexico City decided to remove the bust of Aliyev. And in the cinema "Baku" on Usievich, a pedestal without a bust, in my opinion, is worth it, at least for one time. Then the monument was nevertheless put up but in Ulyanovsk. There, too, the attitude towards him is ambiguous. If you follow the logic of Marek, then what is the relationship of Aliyev with Ulyanovsk? or Mexico City? There is also a station in Buryatia, busts in Canada and Egypt. By the way, in Canada, in my opinion, they also dismantled it. In general, during the times of the USSR, Aliyev was the leader of the “union” scale and in Moscow he deserved at least a commemorative plaque (there is one in St. Petersburg). And in Ulyanovsk, a monument, in my opinion, is nonsense.

      In Mexico, I heard about Canada not!
      I agree with you!
      I heard about Ulyanovsk, is there a BAM passing by? I heard that somewhere there, too, a monument was erected for merits in construction !!
      may not be accurate information!
      But I wrote about the bust in the sense that I do not see in this a big tragedy for relations between peoples !!!
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 28 March 2013 02: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: Yarbay
        In Mexico, I heard about Canada not!


        In Canada, busts of Heydar Aliyev and Mehriban Aliyeva were dismantled about this by the Azadlig newspaper, Hasan Saftarov, Canadian representative of the Public Chamber (OP).
        This step was taken by the authorities of the city of Niagara on the Lake as a result of a campaign conducted by the Azerbaijani opposition. In March of this year, they sent appropriate appeals to the city hall and responsible organizations of the city. The appeal, in particular, said that “today the whole world has declared a struggle against dictatorship. And the installation in Canada, which is one of the most democratic countries in the world, a bust for such a dictator as Heydar Aliyev, seriously damages the image of Canada. Aliyev is not convicted of anything from Saddam, Mubarek, Bin Ali, Gaddafi and Assad. Therefore, on behalf of the members of the Canadian representation of the OP, as well as hundreds of Azerbaijanis living in Canada, we ask that the busts of Heydar Aliyev and his daughter-in-law, Mehriban Aliyeva, be dismantled and returned to the Azerbaijani authorities. ”

        link

        Your renegades have tried, Ilham heard NGOs sponsored by him pressed like Putin, and here they are recouping.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 28 March 2013 03: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          In Canada, busts of Heydar Aliyev and Mehriban Aliyeva were dismantled about this by the Azadlig newspaper, Hasan Saftarov, Canadian representative of the Public Chamber (OP).

          honestly for me this is news !!
          I did not hear that there were their busts !!!
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 28 March 2013 02: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: Yarbay
        But I wrote about the bust in the sense that I do not see in this a big tragedy for relations between peoples !!!

        In Moscow there is a monument to Ho Chi Minh and a whole square, why not Aliyev Heydar, because he was one of the leaders of the USSR, And he did not tarnish himself with any betrayal.
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 28 March 2013 03: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: Yarbay
        I heard about Ulyanovsk, is there a BAM passing there?

        No to BAM from there as to Beijing with cancer. Bam in Ust-Kut begins. in Transbaikalia.
        Many villages and stations of BAM were built by one republic, region or city. So, the Azerbaijanis built the stations of Angoya and Ulkan Kazakhs - New Charu;
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 28 March 2013 03: 52 New
          -1
          [quote = Ascetic] No to BAM from there as to Beijing with cancer. Bam in Ust-Kut begins. in Transbaikalia.
          made laugh)))))))))))))))
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 08: 55 New
      0
      Ascetic, these monuments are from another opera - these are political gestures.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 44 New
    -1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?

    I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Was Mammoth
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?


      Quote: Was Mammoth
      I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.


      Do you want to answer a question? And why did the Ryazanians rename the streets of Nekrasov and Koltsov? I’m not talking about Lenin.
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 March 2013 23: 12 New
        +1
        Try at least go to Yandex. I'm in Ryazan. And do not tell me fairy tales. By the way, we use both names. Astrakhan-Lenin.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 13 New
          +1
          officially, a street can have only one name. and the fact that locals out of habit can use the old name is the case in all cities of the world.

          and by "fairy tale" did you mean the above text of the order of your mayor? I did not give other information on Ryazan.
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 28 March 2013 16: 25 New
            0
            This former mayor is under investigation. This is so note
          2. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 28 March 2013 16: 25 New
            0
            This former mayor is under investigation. This is so note
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 13: 16 New
              +1
              for renaming? if not - then what is this information for?
    2. Semurg
      Semurg 27 March 2013 22: 07 New
      0
      Quote: Was Mammoth
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?

      I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.

      AD or BC?
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 March 2013 23: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Semurg
        AD or BC?

        It’s easy to guess. Although maybe someone before the Scythians ..... wink
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 21: 05 New
    -1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    If it were "Kazakh nationalists"

    what are you, it's Martians
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    The writer Korolenko is also an abstract surname for Kazakhs. This name does not cause us any emotions.

    I wonder who Abai is for Russians in Russia, and it’s still interesting how many Russians live in the Republic of Kazakhstan. Maybe it’s also not a sin to ask them? !!!
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    but even in Russia people do not immediately remember what Korolenko wrote.

    well victims of the exam and you may be
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    the first guy at the beginning of the video has some kind of suspicious accent.

    I say Martians, or Russian shoviks disguised themselves to sow enmity
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 21: 36 New
      +2
      Abay was a popularizer of Russian culture among the Kazakhs. He translated Pushkin and others into the Kazakh language. Thanks to Abai, the Kazakhs became acquainted with the best examples of Russian literature.
      Does Abay have, after all this, the right to respect for the Russian people? Of course. It was he who made every effort to unite our peoples.
      And what did Korolenko and Kutuzov do for the Kazakhs and for Kazakhstan?

      Z.Y. And with Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Russia they don’t want to start consulting about street names? you have millions of them. as soon as you begin to take into account the voice of the Tajiks, then you can advise the Kazakhs on similar actions in their country.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 36 New
        -1
        once again, Russians in RK ~ 20% why do you always talk ONLY about KAZAKH, maybe it is worth asking the Russians living in RK who are Kutuzov and Korolenko for them? !!!
        and who for the Russians Amangeldy or Altynsarin ?!
        1. Earthman
          Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 16 New
          -1
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

          once again Russian in RK ~ 20% why do you always talk ONLY about KAZAKH,

          Well, when did the Russians in K-do not become 20%? under Kutuzov or much later?
          In case the Chinese become in the Far East at least 5% Are you ready to put the names of Chinese tyrants on street names?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 28 New
            +1
            renaming when happens ?!
            Russians in Kazakhstan are full citizens?
            Are these 5 percent of Chinese citizens of the Russian Federation?
            are you tired of writing nonsense?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 16 New
              0
              1 million Kazakhs live in Russia. many streets in Russia in honor of Kabanbay and Abylay Khan?
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 22 New
                +3
                to begin with, you don’t need to play so freely in numbers, it’s not just a few million that will be more competent to say, but how many percent, and this is less than one, but at the same time there are streets of Altynsarin, Amangeldy and Abay, although we can safely say that not all Kazakhs in Russia know who they are, but who is Kutuzov all Russians in Kazakhstan know
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 53 New
                  0
                  I don’t know in which Russian city there are Altynsarin and Amangeldy streets, but you can rename them, this is your Russian right.
                  All Russian Kazakhs know who these people are. Kazakhs honor their history; you didn’t learn Kazakh, nor Russian.
                  Z.Y. Kazakhs in Russia are indigenous. Russians in the KZ are newcomers.
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 March 2013 01: 58 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Z.Y. Kazakhs in Russia are indigenous. Russians in the KZ are newcomers.

                  But from this moment in great detail. Not all lands of Kazakhstan are originally Kazakh, are they?
                3. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 21 New
                  +1
                  It depends on how you interpret it. The Kazakhs consider themselves genetic descendants of the Turks and Saks, who mixed in this steppe. Starting from this point, all the lands are native. At times, the political map changed, the West KZ was once held by the Turkmens, the East KZ was by the Dzungars, and Kazakhs were driven out of both.
                  The first Russians on our land are Yaitsky Cossacks, but they settled not from scratch, but among Kazakhs, with whom they had a difficult relationship. then in the eastern KZ a small group of Old Believers appeared. at the end of the 19th century there were still very few Russians, and most of them consisted of military people, not civilians. at the very end of that century, the first settlers appeared, the number of which began to increase very rapidly in the last decades of tsarist rule, but even then there were relatively few Russians. and only in the Soviet era did millions of Slavs and others come here - virgin lands, military bases, training grounds, mining and metallurgical complexes, etc.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 March 2013 00: 27 New
            +2
            647 thousand. About half a percent of the population.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 28 New
      +1
      1) and how many non-Russians in Russia? how many shchas there Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Moscow? you ask them how to name the streets?
      2) Kutuzov and Korolenko have nothing to do with our country and our people of Kazakhstan. Take it easy. we don’t have enough streets to perpetuate all the heroes and poets of Russia. There, even in the post-Soviet Ryazan, there was no place for Nekrasov, Griboedov and Koltsov. And all the same to climb us climb, as we call the streets in their country. And it is with you, and not with us, that the monuments to Soviet soldiers are demolished. If it were your will, Vova, you would have renamed all the streets in the KZ in honor of the Russians, so that it would be more convenient. Thank God that I left. We still have normal Russians, after whom the Kazakhs call streets, stadiums, and theaters. In honor of the athlete Olga Rypakova, a new stadium in Ust-Kamenogorsk was named. This is deserved. This is our pride. And call the stadium in honor of Kutuzov and Korolenko in Russia. We do not mind.

      Z.Y. And we do not demand that in Russia the streets be named in honor of Amangeldy or Altynsarin. Your country - whatever you want, name your prospectuses.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 42 New
    +3
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    But should there be Kutuzova street in Kazakhstan?

    Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 04 New
      +1
      Yes, the Kazakhs were in the Russian army. Kazakh volunteers made their contribution to the victory of Russian weapons over Napoleon. They have merits to Russia. And Kutuzov what merits to the Kazakhs? Or was Napoleon going to conquer Kazakhstan and Kutuzov saved the Kazakhs from French enslavement?
      1. Denis
        Denis 27 March 2013 22: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Or was Napoleon going to conquer Kazakhstan and Kutuzov saved the Kazakhs from French enslavement?
        According to this logic, the Panfilov’s really have nothing to do with it. It’s not audible that Hitler wanted Kazakhstan to enslave
        It turns out childishly
        The empire and the USSR were at war then, and who then already separated?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 23: 36 New
          +1
          WWII - this is another matter. Then the Kazakhs considered themselves to be part of a single nation (although many of the local Russians are convinced that in the USSR there is only one nation - the Russians, they all built, did and fought). The defense of the Soviet Union for the Kazakhs meant the defense of Kazakhstan. And therefore, every fourth of us went to the front, leaving only women and children at home.
          And Napoleon’s war with Russia is a completely different matter. And the names of Soviet wars are much higher for us than the names of other people's wars. Kutuzov, sorry, we do not need nafig. As well as you do not need our Kabanbai or Bogenbai.

          And you are separated from the USSR - Russia. Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan were the last to leave the Soviet Union.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Kutuzov, sorry, we do not need nafig

            why do you say for ALL, once again in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20% of Russians, at the time of the creation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, even more, but at the same time forgive their opinion on you ..
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 56 New
              +1
              at the time of the creation of the Kazakh Khanate, there were no Russians here. As in the days of Kutuzov. in the meantime, go to Tajiks and other non-Russians, and consult with them how to name this or that street in Russia. what if they really want to rename St. Petersburg to New Dushanbe? respect their opinion.
              1. Denis
                Denis 28 March 2013 01: 32 New
                +3
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                rename St. Petersburg to New Dushanbe? respect their opinion
                Here without a mat and not say, but the site’s rules prohibit
                Well, everyone already understood
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 23 New
                  +1
                  so why should I not be indignant when a Russian citizen “advises” us how to conduct onomastics in our country?
          2. Denis
            Denis 28 March 2013 02: 23 New
            +2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            in the USSR there is only one nation - Russians
            So called probable opponents then, now probable friends. In the USSR everyone was Soviet, don’t invent it, because there are still many who remember
            Soviet people, the Soviet people, it was
            And about who is the first and who came out last also reminds kindergarten.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 57 New
        +1
        once again for those who are in the tank, in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20% of Russians, or as usual, we are all equal, but there can be no Kazakh president
        1. Earthman
          Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          but Kazakh cannot be president

          Do you really hate Nazarbayev at heart? why?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 32 New
            0
            Well, first of all, what does Nazorbayev have to do with it, the phrase I quoted has nothing to do with it and it was said differently for another reason
            secondly, I really do not respect him, although I pay tribute to his tricks and intelligence, I also understand that he is now the only one who is “a breakwater” on the path of the nationalism storm in the Republic of Kazakhstan and I am scared to think what will happen when he leaves.
            although in this situation all the fault lies solely with him
            1. Earthman
              Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 41 New
              0
              You are a genius, like the great Olzhas Suleimenov, you ask a question
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              Well, first of all, what does Nazorbayev have to do with it,

              And then you answer him
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              I really don't respect him
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 23: 51 New
                -1
                you asked a question, I answered him, but he had nothing to do with my post, you might as well have asked if I liked rap or rock and would also have answered, no though what does this have to do with my statement ?!
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 20 New
              +1
              Vasilenko, remind who said that? we already had a conversation on this topic, but you still didn’t understand anything, or rather you don’t want to know. you just want to believe that the Kazakhs are nationalists who kicked you out of the country. then you have at least some excuse in life.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 17 New
          +1
          read the Constitution of Kazakhstan, Vova. everything is written there, who can become the president of the country.
      3. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 27 March 2013 23: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        And Kutuzov what merits to the Kazakhs?

        Napoleon did not then make the Kazakhs learn French. To a stupid question, a stupid answer.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 21 New
          0
          There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

          Z.Y. The answer is unequivocal. NO. That's all. And do not be offended here.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 24 New
            0
            20% of Russian citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan?
            what are the merits of Altynsarin or Amangeldy to Russia?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 00 New
              0
              in addition to the Russians, there are still a bunch of others living. and each ethnic group in Kazakhstan has its own “Kutuzovs” in their historical homelands.
              ps In which city are Altynsarin and Amangeldy streets in Russia? Enlighten, I don’t know what city you are talking about.
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay 28 March 2013 01: 09 New
              +1
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              what are the merits of Altynsarin or Amangeldy to Russia?

              Vladimir, did all those who had merits to Russia have been noted ??
              Are they named after the streets ??
              For example, recently I wrote about him-Ismail Khan Nakhchivansky?

              http://www.savash-az.com/rasskazi/bayazet.htm
              Or Kelbala Khan Nakhchivansky, !!
              Huseyn Khan Nakhchivansky is all one genus, but how much they have done for Russia !!
              Huseyn Khan was one of two generals who remained faithful to Nicholas to the end and was ready to go to the rescue !!
              At least one of them is marked by a street, even a tiny one?

              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0
              %BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%93%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D0%A5%D0%B0%D
              0% BD
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 31 New
                0
                Russians will never name streets in their honor, despite their contribution to Russia.
                they are only interested in the fact that in our countries there are streets of Yermak, Kutuzov, Suvorov and other people who not only did NOT make any contribution to our country, but even some were enemies to us.
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 12: 50 New
                -2
                definitely not all, but the question is not the same
          2. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 28 March 2013 22: 57 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

            "Julius ...". Not accustomed. It seems to be an educated person, and rudeness above the roof.
            About the history of Russia and the USSR, you better ask the Russians who live in Kazakhstan and consider it their homeland. Maybe you will understand something.
          3. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 28 March 2013 22: 58 New
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

            "Julius ...". Not accustomed. It seems to be an educated person, and rudeness above the roof.
            About the history of Russia and the USSR, you better ask the Russians who live in Kazakhstan and consider it their homeland. Maybe you will understand something.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 13: 18 New
              +1
              And how else to call actions when you simply avoid giving a normal answer to a very simple question: "What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to Kazakhstan?"
      4. de klermon
        de klermon 28 March 2013 01: 40 New
        +1
        It is doubtful, of course, that it might have occurred to Napoleon to conquer Kazakhstan ... It is doubtful that he even knew what it was, just as the Kazakhs most likely did not even know about the existence of the French in general and Napoleon in particular ... It’s difficult with you disagree! However, about Kutuzov ... is Zhukov a hero? It turns out that yes, "... the Kazakhs considered themselves to be part of a single nation ..." - your words, but in comparison with the year 1812, for 1941–45 for the Kazakhs, what exactly has changed fundamentally on a historical scale? It’s just not quite obvious somehow ... Did you need time to get used to it? Have you finally managed to realize the benefits of the damned European civilization brought to the territory of the Kazakh Zhuz by the Kutuzov and their descendants? In principle, of course, the deep penetration into the consciousness of the people of the ideas of Marx - Lenin on the world solidarity of workers (though locally - within the framework of the USSR) is quite possible! N-but somehow it doesn’t stick together again - since 1945 has the process started to regress? It also seems not to be - they spoke out in favor of preserving the USSR at a referendum ... It turns out that the whole point is in the heady wind of freedom since 1991: like Scorpions !!! Well, and in the features of building a sovereign national identity (school, books, television and newspapers) during the search for acceptable national guidelines ...
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 30 New
          0
          uh, de Clermont, I do not quite understand. and what did tsarist power give Kazakhs - what are the benefits of civilization? Soviet power is another matter, much has given, much has taken. attributing the Russian people to the Soviet regime is not entirely correct, because Then the Russian people should not only ascribe to themselves the achievements of Soviet power, but also be responsible for all the shoals of this system. and Russians usually only want to take half their burdens. they say that we all built and did it, but hunger, repression, Russification and other "charms" have nothing to do with us.
          The Kazakhs considered themselves part of the Soviet (but not Russian) ethnic group with all the consequences. What is incomprehensible here?
          The tsarist government did nothing good in our region. Just controlled, bristling with bayonets. And then land was also taken away in favor of the settlers. Why should Kazakhs be grateful to the tsarist government and its personalities?
    2. Earthman
      Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: Was Mammoth
      Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?

      what you offended by Marek
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 25 New
        0
        and for them I am the personification of "Kazakh nationalism")))))))))))) and their sense of life is to prove to everyone that the Kazakhs are curled up and become fascists. because in this case, they have an excuse why they didn’t succeed in the KZ))))) without me their meaning of life will disappear, because they are fighters with "Kazakh nationalism"))))))))
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 26 New
          -1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          without me their meaning of life will be lost

          you flatter yourself
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 29 March 2013 00: 54 New
        -1
        Quote: Earthman
        what you offended by Marek

        What do you? I just do not like rudeness. Rudeness directly rushing from this individual. And demagoguery mixed with nationalism. Where he appears, there is a sea of ​​talk, Have you noticed? Try rereading his creations.
        I believe that “VO” provides an excellent opportunity to find and preserve what unites us, and in case of misunderstanding, find common ground. It would be a desire. I have lived enough, but if I understand that my opinion is erroneous, I admit it. By the way, this site has also changed something in my mind.
        This article is called provocative. It seems that yes is a provocation (or the stupidity of a nationalist), not just the author of the article, but a certain Shaikhutdinov. Don't you find?
        Next week I’m going on a business trip. I will pass Kryukovo. I’ll come in and bow to my people.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 27 March 2013 21: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Nomad
    Russian names of small streets do not count.

    Hands have not reached yet. And in the center there are only beks, bais and batyrs.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 27 March 2013 22: 05 New
      -1
      Quote: Was Mammoth
      Hands have not reached yet. And in the center there are only beks, bais and batyrs.

      ... instead of the names of communist leaders and people completely alien to Kazakhstan.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 27 March 2013 22: 58 New
        0
        and Louis Pasteur or Kovalevskaya did not please?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 00: 26 New
          0
          and where do these people and Kazakhstan?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 March 2013 00: 31 New
            -1
            And in Kazakhstan, canceled microbiology, how is pseudoscience?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 23 New
              0
              where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan? where is the connection just justify the connection between our country and this wonderful scientist.
              1. Denis
                Denis 28 March 2013 01: 34 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan
                Isn't milk pasteurized?
                or beer
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 March 2013 02: 03 New
                  -3
                  Why pasteurize? You can simply cancel the germs. By presidential decree to declare them nonexistent.
                  1. Denis
                    Denis 28 March 2013 02: 28 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Spade
                    declare them nonexistent
                    And how to convey a decree to them? Maybe they are not from evil, but only mistaken
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 31 New
                  +2
                  and Nicolas Upper invented canned food. many streets in Russia in honor of this Frenchman?
                  and where is still the answer to a simple question: where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan?
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 28 March 2013 02: 00 New
                +1
                That is, microbiology is prohibited. Together with math. Understood. Regression?
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 32 New
                  +1
                  Lopatov, nonsense has already begun to fence, instead of just admitting that there is no connection between Louis Pasteur and Kazakhstan.
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 00: 31 New
            -4
            But what does Abay and Russia have to do with it?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 01: 24 New
              +2
              once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.
          3. de klermon
            de klermon 28 March 2013 02: 05 New
            +2
            If you talk like that ... There are people whose achievements are valuable to humanity, just to all of humanity; there are people who have distinguished themselves in front of their country or group of countries (Kutuzov, for example), but are known all over the world; but there are certainly people who are well-deserved (well, in front of the country there, by district, village, village or village), but unknown to anyone outside the cordon (with the exception of a very limited circle of historians and ethnographers) (I’ll not call names to offend anyone) ... So it turns out that nothing in the same hut with the logic does not work out! It is simply amazing the desire to translate the topic from the monument to the Great Feat of the united nation into the plane of discussion of children's problems in the formation of the identity of the part of this nation that was cut off without even asking if she wants it or not ?!
            PS Previously (about 5-7 years ago) I was in close contact with the Belarusians, so they could say they didn’t think that they live abroad ... I’ll just voice my opinion, not claiming the truth: I treat the Kazakhs like Bashkirs, Tatars, Buryats, Altai, Karelians, etc. - POSITIVE ... Nazarbayev, Yeltsin, Gorbachev ... I kindly want to believe that reason and history are stronger, and the border between us is a temporary misunderstanding! And then they will eat it: China is right next door, and there, in general, the pipe is self-identical - the example of Tibet, the Mongols and Uighurs teaches something!
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 28 March 2013 10: 46 New
              +3
              Let us decide how to name our streets and who to build the monuments for. Russia is a world champion in onomastics, but it is becoming hysterical when its neighbors get their names cleaned up, removing obsolete communist realities and abandoning names in honor of insignificant people for Kazakhstan.
              I repeat, we have enough of our Russians (and other Russian people from Russia who have contributed to the development of our relations) - and in honor of them, the Kazakhs are happy to name objects. They are part of our culture, our history, our glory. And let the streets in Paris be called in honor of Pasteur, and in Vologda in honor of Kutuzov. We have our own Zataevichs, Zenkovs, Baums, Hamids, Tskhays, Belgians, Ilyins, Smirnovs, whom the people are proud of.

              And the border between us is a temporary concept, until we reformat our eternal union)
  • Gur
    Gur April 1 2013 13: 52 New
    0
    Of course, there is the right to rename, and even the base has already been brought up for it even for Saratov, but I can’t accept the renaming so to speak, especially since they are unfortunately not original, and are mostly repeated from city to city, from village to village. I didn’t meet the streets in Kazakhstan, on the Kazakh “shady” “cherry”, the situation is reminiscent of the revolutionary period, in every city Karl Marx and Lenin St. So here are some batyrs. but about his native village he wrote so. DEDICATED TO RED KNIVERS!
    I came home
    I stood on a hill
    I looked at the village
    What lay between the rocks
    I looked at her, and did not recognize
    I was looking for something native
    It seems everything is as always
    There’s a mountain, there’s a churchyard and a river
    Tears slowly flowed through my eyes.
    It seems everything is as always yes still not that
    The aul became, and there was a village.
    Red mountains in the name
    Now Kyrymsak called her
    What happened to you? Where is our club
    Where is the poplar in the meadow, where is my school
    Where I walked in the garden ....... (further more ... I write)))
    And the mass of names sonorous and beautiful now simply does not exist, as probably there is no life in these once-living villages ... Golubinovka, Razvilnoye, Krasnogorovka, Natarova, Shevchenko, Glubokoe, Alekseevka, etc., etc.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 27 March 2013 21: 26 New
    +3
    I read the comments, it turns out that mostly Russians write you are Kazakhs, do not try to change anything at home, add it, etc. And the Kazakhs seem to make excuses that they say no, no, that someone has beguiled. It turns out that the neighbor looks in to the neighbor and says that it is possible and what cannot be done, and he answers him, no, I’m not going to change anything, add it, etc. Especially Kazakhstan citizens who left saying that the Kazakhs would die without them, are especially indignant. that their forecast was not justified by this, they are very disappointed. And according to the memorial, it is being overhauled, and it’s as if by the detractors’s ears, and if it’s finished there, I’m repeating it and not instead of the words of the political instructor (Eternal peace to heroes-Kazakhstani, not Kazakhs) badly? Or again, the neighbor was not hit by aaaa Türks traitors, etc.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 27 March 2013 22: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Was Mammoth
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    But should there be Kutuzova street in Kazakhstan?

    Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?

    so it was the Kazakhs who helped beat the French enemies of Russia, and not Kutuzov helped beat the enemies of the Kazakhs.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 27 March 2013 22: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Abay was a popularizer of Russian culture among the Kazakhs. He translated Pushkin and others into the Kazakh language. Thanks to Abai, the Kazakhs became acquainted with the best examples of Russian literature.
    Does Abay have, after all this, the right to respect for the Russian people? Of course. It was he who made every effort to unite our peoples.
    And what did Korolenko and Kutuzov do for the Kazakhs and for Kazakhstan?

    Z.Y. And with Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Russia they don’t want to start consulting about street names? you have millions of them. as soon as you begin to take into account the voice of the Tajiks, then you can advise the Kazakhs on similar actions in their country.

    Yes, it’s hard to beat the lash. But it’s hard to explain. Buy Abay (joke)
  • Semurg
    Semurg 27 March 2013 22: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Denis
    Quote: Semurg
    as then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad
    Here at least do not rave. The native name was returned, in the 90th the referendum was about

    Well, after 90 years, maybe in 100 years we will hold a referendum and give it back. Or you can
    1. Denis
      Denis 27 March 2013 23: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: Semurg
      PRINCIPLE YOU CAN US
      Another principle, another
      the one learns from his mistakes, and the smart one from strangers
  • Earthman
    Earthman 27 March 2013 23: 05 New
    -1
    Quote: baltika-18
    Especially in the place when he announced the agreement between the Tatar and Kazakh priests on the use of the letters "e" and "i." He also invented a time machine .....

    Well, you kind of read, but you didn't seem to read. He suggested this conditionally, since he himself can’t explain this phenomenon in any way, if one word in Tatar sounds rough, in Kazakh it sounds soft and vice versa, you can check all words within reason. He cannot explain this phenomenon, the Hungarians say En - I, the Türks of the Kipchaks - Men, the Man, the Turks of the Oguzes of Ben, the tribes of Africa say Mben - also I. Is there a fact? is, therefore, he conditionally poetically designated this phenomenon as the “Agreement of the Priests”, since you will forgive him, for all the greatness of Olzhas Suleimenov, he is not God and did not live in those days, but he suggested everything scientifically and thoroughly. Well, it’s like in the 15th century Galileo thought, why does the sun repeat every day in one direction, well, the sun doesn’t go from west to east, there is an axiom, and he proposed to study such axioms.

    You did not competently compare with Petukhov, well, this is not his serious level to compare. Have you read Petukhov’s stories? re-read everything and you will kiss Olzhas.

    In case you do not trust Olzhas as non-Russian, then the person who taught him how to think this way is Russian Ivanov Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich
  • Nomad
    Nomad 28 March 2013 09: 26 New
    +4
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.

    Kazakhs, I suggest Smoke and Vasilenko to ignore. Let them go to the bile. It is useless to prove them something at the level of logic and factology, they are trolls in the literal and figurative sense.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 12: 46 New
      -3
      funny I brought the facts, and you about bile, you can explain where I lied and where I poured bile on the Kazakhs
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 14: 31 New
        0
        good answer laughing minus set, brilliant explanation
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 13: 20 New
        +5
        Vova, yes, on all counts, you always sit in a puddle, in all matters. But this does not bother you a bit. You have mistakes and lies in every sentence about KZ.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 30 March 2013 15: 38 New
          0
          the funny thing is that you cannot refute any of these "mistakes"
  • Nomad
    Nomad 28 March 2013 09: 34 New
    +4
    Quote: Alibekulu
    Quote: Iraclius From this place more details, please. Always please. For example, Roy MEDVEDEV: “I have accumulated a lot of materials on the CIS that I have been collecting for ten years. When I began to look at, analyze them, I found that from all the CIS countries Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia have achieved the greatest successes. The Russian press is also silent about the successes of Kazakhstan - in many indicators of the market economy, in the stability of the political situation ... You did not have the same decline as in Russia in 1994-1996 ... In addition, Kazakhstan did not experience the political crises that we had in 1993 and 1996 ... There are many reasons, and I am analyzing them now. It just surprised me that the Russian press is silent about the situation in a number of CIS republics and we have a lot to do. learn them ...

    It has long been noted that the Russian press writes a lot and with pleasure about the problems of the former republics with the subtext "choke on your independence."
  • Nomad
    Nomad 28 March 2013 09: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Nomad
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.

    Kazakhs, I suggest Smoke and Vasilenko to ignore. Let them go to the bile. Moderators will not allow them to answer as they deserve, and it is useless to prove them something at the level of logic and factology, they stupidly do not enter what is written.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 28 March 2013 09: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: Denis
    Quote: Semurg
    PRINCIPLE YOU CAN US
    Another principle, another
    the one learns from his mistakes, and the smart one from strangers

    Do not let us make your mistakes, just as you make your own. Do not impose your vision of the world on your neighbors and everything will be ok. Perhaps we will break our entire face and learn that we don’t need to repeat after fools, but draw conclusions on the mistakes of others. But we should go it ourselves and not be shouted by a neighbor. You somehow start to wonder if you need a closer friendship with this neighbor .
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 13: 01 New
      -1
      but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 13: 24 New
        +4
        I wrote about the language policy in Tatarstan (that Moscow forbids the Tatars to change the alphabet by a special decree). BUT! He cited this case as an example when discussing the language issue in Kazakhstan and Russia.
        And you, as usual, turned my phrase into a completely different hypostasis - as if the Kazakhs were talking to Russians how to conduct a language policy in Russia, and you completely attributed from the lantern that we were declaring that Russia would be ruined.
        Again lied, Vova.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 28 March 2013 15: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence

    Well, it seems that with Vasilenko we came to a common denominator that we need to climb less into each other’s internal affairs. Hence, what conclusion should we take away the fence, since we decide our internal affairs ourselves, each ourselves, or vice versa, the higher the fence, the better the relationship?. Yes, eternal the dilemma of the right choice would not be wrong.
  • Semurg
    Semurg 28 March 2013 15: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence

    Well, it seems that with Vasilenko we came to a common denominator that we need to climb less into each other’s internal affairs. Hence, what conclusion should we take away the fence, since we decide our internal affairs ourselves, each ourselves, or vice versa, the higher the fence, the better the relationship?. Yes, eternal the dilemma of the right choice would not be wrong.
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek 28 March 2013 22: 02 New
    +4
    Vasilenko, you don’t mind renaming all Kazakh names in yourselves, but we don’t have to figure out how to teach us. And according to your logic, Louis Pasteur Obama received the Peace Prize so name some street by his name or you canceled the world by presidential decree.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 22: 12 New
      +1
      and no one is teaching you, it’s just not bad to take into account the opinion of ALL citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 28 March 2013 22: 12 New
      +1
      and no one is teaching you, it’s just not bad to take into account the opinion of ALL citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 13: 26 New
        0
        There is such a thing - the majority. And no country is able to take into account and implement the wishes of all foreigners. Especially if a hundred peoples live in the country.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 30 March 2013 17: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          realize the wishes of all foreigners

          you clearly and specifically explained everything
      2. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 30 March 2013 17: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        .. just not bad to reckon with the opinion of all citizens ..


        So, for several years now you have XNUMHdaras, who are full-fledged citizens of the Russian Federation, want to hold a gay parade in Red Square in Moscow or in St. Petersburg ..
        What are you Volodya do not take into account and do not protect them (I emphasize once again the citizens of Russia) OPINION and their INTERESTS ???
        request
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 30 March 2013 19: 06 New
          -4
          Russian in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20%, I hope there are much less homosexuals in the Russian Federation
          1. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 30 March 2013 19: 42 New
            +1
            And here the interest ??? It's all strictly according to your statement .. where are you about the interest?
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            .. just not bad to reckon with the opinion of all citizens ..


            So how much interest should be taken into account, opinion ?!
            Oh, our torch!?! recourse
  • Lignitz
    Lignitz 28 March 2013 22: 07 New
    +1
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  • Lignitz
    Lignitz 28 March 2013 22: 07 New
    0
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....