Kazakhstan is great, but Russians have nowhere to retreat

213
Kazakhstan is great, but Russians have nowhere to retreat

The incident with the monument to Panfilov's heroes in Kazakhstan - as a “marker” of the problems of the Russian population in this country

The authorities of the Kazakh city of Alma-Ata want to remove from the monument to the Panfilov’s heroes the phrase of well-known political instructor Vasily Klochkov: “Russia is great, but there is no place to retreat. Behind Moscow! ”, A number of Russian and Kazakh media published such reports. According to these reports, it was planned to replace the inscription with one of the others, for example: “The feat of Kazakhstanis is a heritage for the people, an example for generations”, “Eternal peace to the heroes of Kazakhstanis!” And “The feat of Kazakhstanis who fought for their Motherland will be remembered forever.”

As a result, it turned out that the Almaty city council of veterans headed by Yerengyip Shaikhutdinov became the initiator of this idea.

However, after some time, a refutation came out in which Kazakh officials said they did not plan to change the inscription on the memorial, and Erengaip Shaikhutdinov explained that there was no initiative to replace the well-known expression of political instructor Klochkov. According to Shaikhutdinov, the council of veterans only wanted to add one of the inscriptions in order to perpetuate the memory of the people of Kazakhstan who took part in the Great Patriotic War.
And although the incident was settled, it was not possible to avoid public resonance. Moreover, there is a strong suspicion that it was precisely because of this resonance that the decision to replace the inscription was never made.

The Window to Russia project decided to find out what our compatriots living in Kazakhstan are thinking about this incident.

The editor-in-chief of the Russian in Kazakhstan website, Ilya Namovir, believes that “in principle, story with the monument to the heroes of Panfilov is not so surprising and atypical. Rather the opposite. Such initiatives, aimed at erasing our memory of our common past in the USSR from the memory of Kazakhstan, steeped in the spirit of historical revisionism for the sake of the national situation, are not uncommon.

It just so happened that this particular proposal of a certain Mr. Shaikhutdinov was publicized in the media and now, of course, taking into account the public resonance caused, it is unlikely to be implemented, which is confirmed by the words of the head of the cultural department Yerbolat Auezov, who assured that this issue “didn’t even discussed. " But this is a given case, and how many such proposals go to municipal and other bodies, and how many of them are being quietly implemented? Monuments disappear, streets are renamed. In connection with the abolition of the moratorium on renaming, I believe, the question of renaming Petropavlovsk, Pavlodar, Ust-Kamenogorsk will emerge again. ”

Ilya Namovir also stressed that “in the new amendments to the law on onomasticism, of course, it is said that the question of renaming will be submitted for consideration only if it is supported by the residents of this or that locality. But where is the guarantee that a story similar to the renaming of the Shchuchinsky district to Burabai Audany a few years ago will not happen again? Residents of this area from the onomastic commission learned that, it turns out, 81% of them support this renaming, although it was found out during polls of residents that none of them participated in gatherings and did not vote “for” or “against” and, in general, I was not aware that similar gatherings of residents were held.

In addition, the law on onomastic leaves, as a result, the last word on renaming, not for the residents, but for the Main Republican Onomastic Commission. So, if someone “upstairs” suddenly wants to get rid of the remnants of Russian toponymy on the map of Kazakhstan, then there is a suitable tool for that. ”

Chairman of the Republican Slavic Movement “Lad” (Kazakhstan), Maxim Kramarenko, believes that “throwing in the idea of ​​renaming the memorial of glory to Panfilov’s heroes made by the head of the NGO“ Organization of Veterans ”is nothing more than striving to destroy the existing spiritual ties between nations post-Soviet space. Under the slogans of the need to foster Kazakhstani patriotism, part of the Kazakh political elite is trying to "spread" the public consciousness from Russia, gradually removing from the history of Kazakhstan the "pages" about the positive experience of finding the Kazakh people in the same state as Russia, such as the USSR and the Russian Empire.

At the same time, one can observe the formation of "modern Kazakh mythology" about historical Russia, as a state that has brought only harm to the Kazakh people. These include the famine of 1932-33 in Kazakhstan, which is positioned by a number of public figures, as a targeted genocide policy towards the Kazakh ethnos, conducted by the Soviet leadership. ”

In addition, Kramarenko notes that “there is a heroization of historical characters who had pronounced anti-Russian views. For example, the same Mustafa Shokai, who was in Germany during the Great Patriotic War, was in contact with the fascists and was directly involved in the creation of the Turkestan Legion. ”

“We can say that all these are links of one political strategy, the roots of which are located across the ocean. The idea of ​​replacing the slogan on the Glory Memorial did not accidentally arise simultaneously with the initiative of the Kazakh opposition to hold a referendum against the Customs Union, whose appearance is so fearful in the United States, says Maxim Kramarenko. - At the end of last year, Hillary Clinton instructed all pro-Western forces to prevent the creation of the Eurasian Union. In Kazakhstan, this directive of the State Department is being implemented in various forms.

After all, this integration undertaking has great prospects that will help strengthen all the states participating in it, which in turn will lead to their more independent foreign policy from the US. ”

As can be seen, there are enough unresolved problems in the political relations of Kazakhstan with its main strategic partner. This applies in particular to the Eurasian integration, the author and one of the initiators of which Kazakhstan itself is. So is it not better to focus attention and efforts on existing issues than to create artificial problems?

The Park of Glory Memorial in the Park named after 28 Panfilov Guardsmen in Alma-Ata was built to mark the 30 anniversary of the Victory in the year 1975. The opening of the four-part memorial complex took place on 8 on May 1975 of the year. The first part - the high relief "Oath" (on the left side) - is dedicated to young fighters for Soviet power in Kazakhstan. The central part of the triptych - “Feat” - captured the images of the Panfilov heroes who defended Moscow with their breasts. On the right is the song "Trumpeting Glory", which gives the whole memorial an optimistic sound, its images embody the hymn of triumphant life. At the Eternal Flame - massive cubes of labradorite, beneath which bricked up capsules with the earth, brought from the cities of heroes.
213 comments
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  1. +11
    26 March 2013 16: 25
    Well, Kazakhstan is a sovereign state and has the right to pursue its internal policy at its discretion. Another thing is that Russian officials (the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Culture, etc.) should step up in terms of rapprochement with the Kazakh society and strengthening their positions there in civilized ways, of course (cultural events, humanitarian programs, joint projects, etc.).
    1. -26
      26 March 2013 17: 44
      No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great Russia, but nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep it on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.
      1. +5
        26 March 2013 18: 32
        So this is the park to them. Panfilovites, there are their symbolic (and maybe real) graves, so this is exactly the phrase there just in place. It seemed like the idea of ​​renaming this park seems to be in them. Momysh-uly, and they were going to erect a monument there, but I don’t know how it ended. There is also a bust of Panfilov and a monument to the Afghans.
      2. predator.3
        +22
        26 March 2013 18: 45
        Quote: feanor
        No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great Russia, but nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep it on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.


        In fact, monuments are erected once and for all, if you start to rewrite texts, change cultural compositions, according to the current political moment, then it already knows what the hell! Moreover, this monument to Panfilov’s.
      3. +4
        26 March 2013 18: 49
        Quote: feanor
        it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.

        Break-not build
      4. +10
        26 March 2013 19: 25
        Quote: feanor
        it makes no sense to keep on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.

        Well, then it will remain how to blow it up in Kutaisi, how to demolish it in Tashkent and Lvov region, how to "transfer" it in Tallinn ... so you understand?
        “In principle, the story with the monument to the Panfilov heroes is not so surprising and atypical. Rather, the opposite. Similar initiatives aimed at erasing from the memory of Kazakhstanis our common past in the USSR, saturated with the spirit of historical revisionism for the sake of the national conjuncture,
        this is all, to put it mildly, veiled, in fact it is ordinary fascism. The words carved on the monument belong to political instructor Vasily Klochkov, and not the Shaikhutdinovs to change them ... because this is a substitution of true values
        1. +5
          26 March 2013 20: 25
          I am more than confident that such initiative proposals of "citizens" will not find support either from the authorities or from the people of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Anyway, such information looks more like a banal provocation.
      5. +6
        26 March 2013 19: 55
        Dear, this is a common story, and no one has the right to rewrite it for the sake of any political or economic realities.
        In Kazakhstan, such monuments are very honored, therefore, no official will take the liberty to put a signature on such a decision.
      6. Beck
        +14
        26 March 2013 20: 37
        Quote: feanor
        No, well, in general, everything is correct, the phrase "Great Russia, but nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow!" it makes no sense to keep it on a monument in Kazakhstan, I think it is quite logical to replace it.


        Feanor, you are not right around, you are not right everywhere, everywhere you are wrong.

        If we squeeze the article from assumptions, suspicions, and the author’s own conjectures, the following remains.

        Someone from the Veterans Committee suggested add a new inscription, not replace the old one. Add inscription, with a mention of all Kazakhstan people participating in the Second World War. Akimat did not support this. All. Nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

        But no, there were inadequate ones, both in Kazakhstan and in Russia, which they themselves thought of, they themselves finished writing and themselves raised the high above their invented. Even on the sacred they want to "exacerbate" interethnic relations in Kazakhstan and "exacerbate" relations between Russia and Kazakhstan. Ugh on them. And a hundred more times.

        In Russia, not everyone understands the fullness of the word KAZAKHSTAN. And in an additional inscription this word also appeared. So, since Soviet times and now, Kazakhs are not called Kazakhs by the word. Kazakhs are also called Kazakhs. Kazakhstanis are called all the inhabitants of Kazakhstan, regardless of their nationality. It is both private Russians and general Russians.

        And further. As I can see from the comments, not all Russians know the history of the words "Russia is great, but there is nowhere to retreat. Moscow is behind!" These are the words of a Kazakh citizen V.G. Klochkov, political instructor of the 4th company of the 2nd battalion of the 1075th rifle regiment of the 316th rifle division (future 8th Guards) of the 16th army of the Western Front,
        And he said these words before the battle of his platoon with fascist tanks. And inspired by these words, 28 Panfilov guardsmen died, but did not retreat.

        And to some extent I am involved in preserving the memory of all KAZAKHSTAN participants in the Second World War. In 1941, the headquarters of the formed 316 division was located in the building of school number 19 in Almaty. Which I finished at the end of the 60s. And we high school students, in one of the classes, created a museum. And they traveled to both Dubosekovo and Kryukovo.

        And such articles with juggling and juggling only cast a shadow on ALL participants in the Second World War.
        1. +3
          26 March 2013 20: 52
          Quote: Beck
          Someone from the Veterans Committee suggested adding a new inscription, rather than replacing the old one. Add an inscription mentioning all Kazakhstanis participating in the Second World War. Akimat did not support this. All. Nothing more. Absolutely nothing.

          I read it before on Kazakh sites. The story is cloudy, but there is no smoke without fire. By the way, about nationalism in Kazakhstan: not everyone is like you, Beck, unfortunately. Today I went to the Kazakhstan portal, I come across comments and quite a lot. I think that This provocation is neither the first nor the last, you also have nationalist forces. Whether they will gain strength or not is not known, it all depends on the authorities.
          1. Beck
            +4
            27 March 2013 07: 42
            Quote: baltika-18
            By the way, about nationalism in Kazakhstan: not everyone like you, Beck, unfortunately. Today I went to the Kazakhstan portal, I come across comments and quite a lot.


            Of course there are Natsik in Kazakhstan. And where are they not? A pun, but the Natsiks have no nationality. Natsik is such a state when all his own rises, starting from statehood and ending with his own personal latrine and everything is not his own. This is a problem for the whole world. Nationalists are everywhere where there is more, where Mentsche, but everywhere. And thank God that in general, nationalism is now not the same as in the 19th century and earlier. After all, enlightenment is developing.
            1. Beck
              +7
              27 March 2013 08: 16
              Quote: Beck
              After all, enlightenment is developing


              I’ll add about Kazakhstan people. As the most understandable and most obvious, I will touch upon the topic of sport. In Soviet times, any delegation or sports team from Kazakhstan, which included residents of Kazakhstan of different nationalities, was broadcast on the radio by the Kazakh delegation, as the Kazakhstan sports team. Now this definition is being forgotten.

              Young sports commentators, broadcasting from international competitions, call all the representatives of our team Kazakhs .. For example, a weightlifter, twice Olympic champion Ilyin or an athlete, an Olympic champion, Shishigina is called not even Kazakh athletes, but Kazakhs (whether this is good or bad is another matter). In Soviet times, they would definitely be called Kazakhstani athletes, and in my opinion this is the most correct definition.
              1. 0
                27 March 2013 09: 45
                Quote: Beck
                In Soviet times, they would definitely be called Kazakhstani athletes, and in my opinion this is the most correct definition.

                That's it, Bek. The country of Kazakhstan, whatever one may say, is not mono-ethnic.
                1. Beck
                  +5
                  27 March 2013 12: 09
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  That's it, Bek. The country of Kazakhstan, whatever one may say, is not mono-ethnic.


                  I’ll add it again. Kazakh athletes are called Kazakhs precisely by Russian commentators. Well, they are probably young and the word Kazakhstani is not very clear to them. Kazakhstani commentators operate more with words - our athlete, Kazakhstan athlete, for example, in relation to Ilyin and do not say that Ilyin is Kazakh.
                  1. Gur
                    0
                    April 1 2013 10: 03
                    I also noticed this, and the impression is that this is done on purpose. Well, probably with what is being done on television, these are trifles. There is no correctness at all.
      7. wax
        -2
        26 March 2013 22: 38
        Are Kazakhstanis ashamed of the words and feat of their heroes? If so, then Panfilov’s heroes can be made generally foreigners by renaming themselves Kypchaks.
        1. DimychDV
          +2
          27 March 2013 08: 28
          Either he stole table silver at a party, or he was stolen from him - it never became clear. But the sediment remained ...
          About six years ago, one grandmother told me about the Panfilovites who were traveling through Saratov to Moscow. She was then about 12 years old, and now the delight was completely childish. There was not so much connectivity as there was enthusiasm. And how Panfilov’s thieves in the market were shortened - thimbles and gamblers. and how they were dressed in winter. and how in the Caucasus before or after already fought.
        2. -2
          27 March 2013 21: 57
          Quote: Wax
          Are Kazakhstanis ashamed of the words and feat of their heroes? If so, then Panfilov’s heroes can be made generally foreigners by renaming themselves Kypchaks.

          And what do you think judging by the comments of the Kazakhs. Thank God that they are not the whole Kazakh people
          1. Marek Rozny
            +4
            27 March 2013 22: 06
            and what kind of comments do Kazakhs have regarding the feat of their heroes? Some of the Kazakhs here said something negative about them?
            1. -2
              27 March 2013 22: 24
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              and what kind of comments do Kazakhs have regarding the feat of their heroes? Some of the Kazakhs here said something negative about them?

              Clear. Panfilov’s are not your heroes. And my uncles are Panfilov’s.
              1. Marek Rozny
                +6
                27 March 2013 22: 56
                you argue with yourself. WHO OF KAZAKH HERE SAY A NEGATIVE ABOUT HEROES OF WAR?
              2. +3
                28 March 2013 14: 26
                Let us not suffer from h. Indicate where, and when at least one Kazakh said on this thread something bad about Panfilov’s?
              3. 0
                8 May 2013 17: 17
                How are Panfilov’s not our heroes?

                Bauyrzhan Momyshuly (December 24, 1910 - June 10, 1982) - participant of the Great Patriotic War, Hero of the Soviet Union, Panfilovets, participant in the battle for Moscow, writer. For the courage and heroism shown in the battle of Moscow, Captain Bauyrzhan Momyshuly in 1942 was introduced to the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, but was awarded him only posthumously
      8. -2
        26 March 2013 22: 51
        it’s logical for you, but for me this monument as a child was a pioneer in the guard of honor standing, it’s not only not logical, it is indescribable with a censored speech.

        Change your profile picture, otherwise it’s somehow out of place
    2. +5
      26 March 2013 18: 24
      Our Foreign Ministry for work with compatriots is a fat two. Mainly political, economic issues are being resolved, and the cultural component is in last place. As a result, the RUSSIAN WORLD is shrinking. The "area of ​​distribution" of the Russian people is melting (I do not mean the emigre communities, which are gradually dissolving among the locals).
      1. +1
        26 March 2013 21: 17
        Quote: Beck

        And further. As I can see from the comments, not all Russians know the history of the words "Russia is great, but there is nowhere to retreat. Moscow is behind!" These are the words of a Kazakh citizen V.G. Klochkov, political instructor of the 4th company of the 2nd battalion of the 1075th rifle regiment of the 316th rifle division (future 8th Guards) of the 16th army of the Western Front,
        And he said these words before the battle of his platoon with fascist tanks. And inspired by these words, 28 Panfilov guardsmen died, but did not retreat.

        And to some extent I am involved in preserving the memory of all KAZAKHSTAN participants in the Second World War. In 1941, the headquarters of the formed 316 division was located in the building of school number 19 in Almaty. Which I finished at the end of the 60s. And we high school students, in one of the classes, created a museum. And they traveled to both Dubosekovo and Kryukovo.

        And such articles with juggling and juggling only cast a shadow on ALL participants in the Second World War.


        I lost sight of the fact that this is a quote, and I generally admit that I was wrong in this matter.
        1. Beck
          +5
          27 March 2013 08: 00
          Quote: feanor
          I lost sight of the fact that this is a quote, and I generally admit that I was wrong in this matter.


          Admitting your mistakes is always inconvenient, but this is the prerogative of adequate people with logic and analysis.
      2. Gur
        +1
        April 1 2013 10: 11
        Yes, there is a deuce, there is generally nothing to put an assessment for, a deuce is at least some kind of evaluation of activity, it doesn’t exist here at all, one desire is loot. You don’t even know what to do, how to put in place the presumptuous nationalists, and the situation is such that they put us in the framework of dumb cattle who should listen and swallow it, and if you don’t like it, you can express it but then look for another job or even change citizenship. What actually the people do.
  2. +15
    26 March 2013 16: 28
    And although the incident turned out to be exhausted, it was not possible to avoid a public outcry. Moreover, there is a strong suspicion that it was thanks to this resonance that the decision to replace the inscription was never made.
    - the author, leave your suspicions to yourself, this is a blow! On the basis of suspicions, and not facts, one can say such that the author can unwittingly carry out the will of the State Department, although here he seems to oppose this State Department! Put your suspicions there, I know where, but I won’t say - I’ve been raised well!
    And the facts are as follows - on his own initiative, someone Shaikhutdinov simply voiced a wish (like far from the first person, this Shaikhutdinov, like his Russian counterpart Zhirinovsky, is just a little bigger with a pipe and smoke, has the right to sound his ideas) among the bureaucrats, an unexpected proposal caused confusion. as it happens in autocratic states, all together raised their heads up, what the First or someone on his behalf would say. This one on his behalf adequately evaluated the proposal and refused. After which the bureaucrats amicably duplicated the refusal to society. This is a real picture, but what the author paints is his personal inventions. And I'm tired of already giving an adequate answer to these fabrications. I hope that forum users understand what I mean.
    1. 0
      26 March 2013 20: 41
      In fact, I clearly, so as not to be mistaken, set MINUS, and the moderator for some reason added 2 pluses, for this you have 10 minuses!
      1. +1
        26 March 2013 22: 31
        Quote: ia-ai00
        set MINUS, and the moderator for some reason added 2 pluses,

        Olya was offended ......
        Do not be offended, I will give a flower. love
      2. Focuser
        +2
        26 March 2013 22: 47
        This is not a moderator! Just in parallel with you, three pluses, so instead of -1 it turned out +2. Similarly, you could have plus, but it would have turned out -8, for example. You can easily check this if you hover over the rating before adding / minus and after that. hi
  3. Fox
    +14
    26 March 2013 16: 37
    Kazakhs are curled ?! I do not believe! among Kazakhs, my friends and acquaintances, Kazakhs are not Tajiks or Uzbeks.
    1. WWW.budanov
      +15
      26 March 2013 17: 22
      I am Russian, I served in Kazakhstan (...) I am proud of this PEOPLE. Its president (Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev) is an example to our "would-be perestroika" ... Remember the times of collapse ... He alone held on with dignity. And in general, why are there no Kazakh "guest workers" now, .... and why thousands more?
      1. Earthman
        +10
        26 March 2013 17: 41
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        I am Russian, I served in Kazakhstan (...). I am proud of this PEOPLE.

        You are just handsome, I shake my hand.
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        Its president (Nursultan Abishevich Nazarbayev) is an example to our "would-be perestroiks" ... Remember the times of collapse ... He alone held on with dignity. And in general, why are there no Kazakh "guest workers" now, .... and why thousands more?

        Thank you very much for understanding
      2. -2
        26 March 2013 22: 46
        Quote: WWW.budanov
        He alone behaved with dignity. And in general, why are there no Kazakh "guest workers" now, .... and why thousands more?

        Well, thousands are not thousands, but there are, besides you’ll forgive me, but I don’t need to say about the dignity of Nazik.
        By the way, what is "worthy" in your concept?
    2. Earthman
      0
      26 March 2013 17: 40
      Quote: Fox
      , there were no gandons. Kazakhs are not Tajiks or Uzbeks.

      What do you dislike about Uzbeks and Tajiks? Choose expressions
      1. Fox
        +5
        26 March 2013 18: 08
        Quote: Earthman
        What do you dislike about Uzbeks and Tajiks? Choose expressions

        there is a lot of manure in their midst. and they do not keep the word. I know these people very well.
        1. Earthman
          +2
          26 March 2013 18: 17
          Quote: Fox
          there is a lot of manure in their midst. and they do not keep the word. I know these people very well.

          Well, you determine it by politicians, not by people. any nation has a bad one, the family has its black sheep, but do not go too far at the global level. Especially in your comments I read dirt and addressed to Kazakhstan.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          +3
          26 March 2013 19: 18
          there is a lot of manure in their environment. and they don’t keep the word. I know these people very well. [/ Quote]

          It is not right! Well, how many of these people do you know? Overwhelming majority?
          You can’t smear all the people with black paint! if you recognize a couple of hundreds, even thousands of people!
  4. +15
    26 March 2013 16: 38
    I have been there more than once a very beautiful park. Well, so ... nonsense, comrades! Why scold only our Kazakhstani young Natsik and bureaucrats. Let's look into your garden:

    IVANOVO11 September. In the center of Ivanovo, the administration destroyed a monument to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War, erected in honor of the anniversary of the Victory over fascism on the square of the 40 anniversary of the Victory.
    More details: http://www.rosbalt.ru/federal/2012/09/11/1032809.html

    "In the Moscow region Aprelevka the other day ONE ANOTHER MONUMENT has been REMOVED. The monument to the pilot Lieutenant Vasily Fedorovich Poidenko, a Ukrainian who defended Moscow, was demolished "[but not moved -!] Allegedly" in connection with the expansion of the Kiev highway, "as stated in the article
    ...
    Recall that BEFORE a wide response in the media was the news of the destruction of a monument to the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War in Khimki near Moscow, where, in addition to the DESTRUCTION OF THE MONUMENT, the burial sites of six Heroes of the Soviet Union were excavated.

    http://obozrevatel.com/news/2007/5/17/171064.htm

    photo of the acts of Russian vandals http://image.v4.obozrevatel.com/files/39/_Picture_file_path_39727.jpg

    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine [indignantly] asks the Russian Foreign Ministry to provide information on the legal grounds for dismantling the monument to the Ukrainian pilot Vasily Poidenko who died during the Great Patriotic War on the Kiev highway in the Moscow region

    http://news.uaclub.net/10_190006.html

    other news:

    In Moscow Region Khimki the monument to the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War was destroyed. Not far from the sensitive facility - the Lavochkin NGO - the graves of six pilots were opened. TOMBOLS RIPPED, DIGGED THE REMAINS, and transferred them to the local morgue.
    http://www.zagolovki.ru/daytheme/himki/20Apr2007

    1. saw486
      +6
      26 March 2013 18: 34
      I think to demolish any monuments of sacrilege. This is a story, and it is not peoples who remake it for themselves.
    2. +2
      26 March 2013 20: 14
      Quote: Karavan
      IVANOVO, September 11. In the center of the city of Ivanovo, the administration destroyed a monument to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War, erected in honor of the anniversary of the Victory over fascism on the square of the 40th anniversary of the Victory

      They didn’t demolish it, they moved it. The square is small, the traffic is huge through it. It began to be called Victory Square in the late 80s. It used to be normal, there were few cars. Now traffic congestion was constantly there.
  5. Krasnoyarsk
    -3
    26 March 2013 16: 42
    Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.
    1. Earthman
      -5
      26 March 2013 17: 42
      Quote: Krasnoyarets

      Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.

      LLC what nationalists are we
  6. ed65b
    +2
    26 March 2013 16: 46
    Zaye ... if you already struggle with the monuments. What is not the local Natsik, then immediately the Russians are to blame. some kind. am
  7. zemlyak
    +1
    26 March 2013 16: 48
    Quote: aksakal
    And the facts are that - on his own initiative, someone Shaikhutdinov simply voiced a wish (like far from the first person, this Shaikhutdinov, like his Russian counterpart Zhirinovsky,
    Or maybe what a sober person (Nazarbayev, Putin) has in mind, a drunk person (Shaikhutdinov, Zhirinovsky) has a tongue? Court buffoonery is also politics.
  8. +1
    26 March 2013 16: 49
    Quite an "interesting" site "Russians in Kazakhstan" you read articles and comments to them, it feels like you live in the 80s, frank Kazakhphobic statements and insults by nationality. But it is of interest to the citizens of Russia, it seems that they mostly create ads on the site for overpopulation in this or that region of the Russian Federation, as I understand it, it was created for this purpose. Some kind of "Izuite" way of attracting repatriates.
    1. Earthman
      -2
      26 March 2013 17: 50
      Quote: marshes
      Quite an "interesting" site "Russians in Kazakhstan" you read articles and comments to them, it feels like you live in the 80s, frank Kazakhphobic statements and insults by nationality. But it is of interest to the citizens of Russia, it seems that they mostly create ads on the site for overpopulation in this or that region of the Russian Federation, as I understand it, it was created for this purpose. Some kind of "Izuite" way of attracting repatriates.

      Yes, it is agreed that all these Slavic movements in Kazakhstan will not lead to anything good, they continue the thoughts of chauvinism and self-excellence openly and insolently and reproach that they are not given FREEDOM in Kazakhstan, that they would be closed, but they seem to serve and carry out orders EXACTLY Russian politicians, not Kazakhstani.

      And the strangest thing is that ROSpressa likes to operate on articles and informational data of Slavic movements, thereby building in the minds of Russians a wrong opinion about Kazakhstan, confusing the personal with the public, like a microscope, increase personal quail with Kazakhstan in a global way.

      ZY: advice, limit the intake of Rospress into the daily informational diet of your body if you yourself do not want to fulfill the plans of the insidious ZOG and the State Department
      1. -3
        26 March 2013 23: 00
        Quote: Earthman
        they continue the thoughts of chauvinism and self-excellence openly and insolently and reproach that they are not given FREEDOM in Kazakhstan to close them, but it seems they are serving and fulfilling orders of EXACTLY Russian politicians, not Kazakhstani.

        any Russian who has the audacity to have the audacity to express his opinion about the situation in the Republic of Kazakhstan that goes against the opinion of the national delegates is immediately declared a chauvinist, even if he simply says that the economy in the Republic of Kazakhstan is in decline and does not say a word about national relations
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          26 March 2013 23: 44
          Kazakhstan economy in decline? Vasilenko, you already got your nonsense about starving Kazakhstan.
          1. +1
            26 March 2013 23: 50
            and we rams that grazed together ?!
            you will poke your earthenware
            1. Marek Rozny
              +4
              27 March 2013 11: 16
              do you have amnesia? You have already poured so much slop on me, but now you don’t know?))))))) And who is “your own earthenware”? what gender is this character at least? decided to "show off" the knowledge of Kazakh realities?)))))))))))
    2. 0
      26 March 2013 22: 57
      on this site no less than insults to Russia and Russian
      1. Beck
        +3
        27 March 2013 08: 54
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        on this site no less than insults to Russia and Russian


        Here I disagree with you. In the vast majority of cases, attacks on Russia and the Russians occur only in the heat of polemics and only in relation to the jingoistic patriots infected with Great Russian chauvinism .. When the answer is inadequate - Ukraine give Donbass and Crimea. Kazakhstan give back "primordially" Russian lands of the north of Kazakhstan. We taught you to piss in the wind. You don't have your own history. Transnistria is a Russian land since Suvorov fought with the Turks there. There are no Chinese on the site, so they are on - Give Dalian this native Russian Port Arthur, they would also oppose it.

        The whole problem of abuse is who first presented the inadequate presentation. Who does not take into account the new prevailing provisions. Who dreams of the revival of the empire, even under autocratic, even under communist sauce. And once again I will repeat Natsik in any nation, the difference is where more, where less.
        1. +2
          27 March 2013 09: 58
          sorry but you're wrong
          very often, insults against Russia begin discussions
          I absolutely agree about the Nazis, but there is one "but" by hook or by hook the opinion is implanted that the entire period when we lived in a single state was a grief for the Kazakhs, the Kazakhs were oppressed, the language was destroyed, etc. etc.
          1. Beck
            +4
            27 March 2013 11: 49
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            but there is one "but" by hook or by hook the opinion is implanted that the entire period when we lived in a single state was a grief for the Kazakhs, the Kazakhs were oppressed, the language was destroyed, etc. etc.


            Here lies the depth of understanding of the issue, which is based on the objectivity of understanding, well, at least the past.

            There was a slave-owning era - There were modern Romans not shouting that there was no slavery and gladiatorial battles. There was a colonial era, when the strong captured the weak - Was. Well. this is how a universal history has developed.

            As it is now possible to deny that which was objective. And the colonial era in all colonial countries was characterized not by equality and humanity, but by violence and oppression. And the history of the Russian Empire does not stand out here. And the USSR was an extension of the empire, but in a mild form. According to the ideology of communism, everyone was equal and Moscow could not ignore such a creed and put forward the slogan of socialist fraternity. But political power remained in Moscow.

            And if the CIS countries say that in the past their countries were conquered by colonial power or "voluntary" treaties based on colonial power, then this is so. And what is there to invent that colonial acquisitions were made primarily for the good of the conquered peoples. First of all, as a basis for the good of the metropolis, to use the natural resources of the conquered countries. And since it was necessary to conduct a colonial economy, schools for aborigines were created so that, with the help of workers who knew the local language and specifics, the resources of the captured were most efficiently used. This was practiced by the British in India and Africa and by the French in Indochina and the same Africa.

            Hunger in Kazakhstan. So hunger was all over the USSR. And we are talking about Kazakhstan hunger. Ukrainians talk about their famine. Russians about his. But who is to blame for this general hunger? Only Moscow, that is, the Communists in the Kremlin. That's what they say about their fault. But Natsik, in the heat of great power, they themselves are translating this into the whole Russian people. I repeat, the political center was to blame.

            Here it would be amusing and unacceptable to you if I would argue. That the conquest of Russia by the Golden Horde was not. There was a voluntary entry of Russian principalities into the Golden Horde. That it is the Golden Horde brought civilization to Russian lands. That it was only the Golden Hordes who saved Russia from the invasions of the Teutonic Order and the Swedes. That it was only the Golden Horde that did not let the Lithuanians and Poles absorb Russia. Nonsense? Of course. Rave? Undoubtedly. Rubbish? Even some.

            But in such a manner, Russian cheers and patriots think in general that they deny the era of colonialism, the political omnipotence of Moscow ... This is where the turmoil comes from.

            One example. The defeat at Kalka of the Polovtsian-Russian troops, the Russian cheers-patriots completely attribute the defeat to the Polovtsy. Here they are narrow-eyed bastards escaped. And that the Russian army had nothing to do with it? What to see came and suffered innocently. Swimmers then recovered after a stroke, gathered. Subudai wars caught up on the Volga crossing and few managed to cross from them to the other side of the Volga. Although there is another version that the Subudai wars on the Volga were defeated by the Volga Bulgars (Tatars). Logically. The crossing in the lower Volga was far from the capital of Burgar Bilyar. And why and for what reason the Bulgars for no reason jump for a thousand kilometers and beat unknown who did not look then towards Bilyar with a single eye.
            1. 0
              27 March 2013 15: 42
              Quote: Beck
              But Natsik, in the heat of great power, they themselves are translating this into the whole Russian people.

              again I don’t agree, they say it’s not the Communists who are to blame or the leadership is to blame, Russia and the Russians are to blame
            2. +1
              27 March 2013 16: 20
              Quote: Beck
              But political power remained in Moscow

              and where should it be if not in the capital of the state? !!!
              Quote: Beck
              Here it would be amusing and unacceptable to you if I would argue. That the conquest of Russia by the Golden Horde was not

              you will be surprised, but I just think so, there was a single entity, with a single center which, as a result of reasons unknown to us, disintegrated
              1. Beck
                +2
                27 March 2013 16: 32
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                you will be surprised, but I just think so, there was a single entity, with a single center which, as a result of reasons unknown to us, disintegrated


                So you have an alternate version. Then agree further. That we brought you civilization. We taught letters to write. And how to knit bast shoes, because they walked barefoot.

                This is from the statements of the cheers-patriots just the opposite. That's when they say so and confrontation arises.
                1. 0
                  27 March 2013 17: 39
                  Quote: Beck
                  we brought civilization to you

                  I really wanted to hear the decoding of this WE
                  1. Beck
                    +2
                    27 March 2013 18: 29
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    I really wanted to hear the decoding of this WE


                    Well, here it begins. I gave you this as an example, that you can’t say that. What can’t say to Russian patriots-give the northern lands, we taught you to piss in the wind. So I rearranged, roughly, their words are the opposite. Having stated that this is nonsense. To clearly show that such neglect of neighbors causes only antipathy. And you do not delve into the transcript say.

                    Read carefully our discussion again.
                    1. 0
                      27 March 2013 18: 47
                      God forbid me, I perfectly understood you and understood what you mean
                      more than once I heard something like you were our slaves 200 years paid tribute, etc.
                      I'm just really interested in this very "WE" period "yoke" probably the most mythonized and unknown period of our history, there are so many misunderstandings, no connections, contradictions and illogicalities that I really want a discussion on this topic, and not in the context of who is what should
                      1. Beck
                        +1
                        27 March 2013 19: 10
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        God forbid me, I perfectly understood you and understood what you mean


                        Well, if you understand, that’s good. And in the history of the Golden Horde, of course, there are many misunderstandings. Somehow, in a posted article on this topic, I set forth my vision.
                      2. 0
                        27 March 2013 19: 15
                        if it’s not difficult to voice, didn’t read, it would be interesting
                      3. Beck
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 10: 28
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        if it’s not difficult to voice, didn’t read, it would be interesting


                        Firstly, I can’t know everything and my conclusions are the conclusions of a lover of Istogria. Secondly, I was interested in the contradictions associated precisely with the Turks, and not the details of the relationship between the subjects in the Golden Horde itself.

                        The first thing that interested me as a contradiction, back from school, was that Tatar-Mongolian the invasion, and in the empire they created, the Mongolian language was not used. Neither between khans, nor between khans and Russian princes, nor in communication between the inhabitants of the Golden Horde. Soviet scholars attributed this to the fact that the Mongols, having conquered Kazakhstan, had rebelled and came to Russia with the Turkic language. About ten years ago, I delved into this issue more deeply. And I discovered the following.

                        Genghis Khan conquered the territory of Kazakhstan in 1220-1223. He died in 1227. His grandson Bat was 22 years old. In 1237, when Batu was 32 years old, he went to Russia.
                        QUESTION. Both 12 years From 1223 to 1237, could the conqueror become a jailholder? Forget your tongue. Usually this conqueror imposes his tongue.
                        In the Russian chronicles of that time there is not a single word Mongol. Chronicles are called conquerors or Golden Horde or Tatars. Labels - state documents were written in the Turkic language, in the Turkic alphabet with the appropriate translation into the recipient's language. The term Mongol was brought into scientific use by the Western historian Kruse only in 1867. In the Russian lexicon there is not a single Mongolism and a whole layer of Turkisms. That's where to put it all if you follow the textbooks.
                        Today's scientists have come to the conclusion that in its origin the word Mongol was not an ethnonym, but the political name of the originally 4 tribes united - Borjigins, Naimans, Kereites, and Taichuites. Then, as other tribes were conquered, this political name also extended to the conquered. For example, the Smolensk and Novgorod Russian regiments participating in the campaign against Hungary and Poland also went under the name Mongol. After the death of Genghis Khan, all tribes gradually returned to their old names. Only the Syanbi tribes that lived in Inner Mongolia and gradually moved to the deserted steppes of modern Mongolia did not return, in view of the previous exodus of the indigenous tribes. These syanbi are now called the Mongols, who have turned the common political name into their anonym. This is where all the misunderstandings come from.

                        Of course, this is not all. But for myself, I deduced two options.
                        First, the tribes of Genghis Khan were Turks bearing the common political name of the Mongol. Then transferred to the xianbi tribes.
                        Second, the Genghis Khan tribes belonged to the Mongolian group of peoples. And having conquered Kazakhstan, they went back. And the Jochi ulus was Turkic in composition. And it is precisely the Turks of Batu Khan who came to Russia.

                        I highlight especially. I say TURKS, not Kazakhs. Kazakhs as a people then did not exist. Kazakhs as a people formed from Turkic tribes only in the 15th century.
                      4. 0
                        28 March 2013 12: 44
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there is no persecution, besides, the Russian princes are related to the "conqueror" in the army there are also Turks and Slavs, the most incomprehensible why the hell is the horde rushing to the west what is the point
                      5. Beck
                        +2
                        28 March 2013 16: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there is no persecution, besides, the Russian princes are related to the "conqueror" in the army there are also Turks and Slavs, the most incomprehensible why the hell is the horde rushing to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons did not stand in Russian cities. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign-yarlyk. And only the tax was collected, the monetary value of a tenth of the property - tithe. So this tax was paid by both nomads on the Irtysh and the mountaineers of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents about the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy flourished in Russia. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa of Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
                      6. Beck
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 16: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there is no persecution, besides, the Russian princes are related to the "conqueror" in the army there are also Turks and Slavs, the most incomprehensible why the hell is the horde rushing to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons did not stand in Russian cities. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign-yarlyk. And only the tax was collected, the monetary value of a tenth of the property - tithe. So this tax was paid by both nomads on the Irtysh and the mountaineers of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents about the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy flourished in Russia. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa of Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
                      7. Beck
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 16: 21
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        the "yoke" itself is extremely strange, there is no persecution, there is no persecution, besides, the Russian princes are related to the "conqueror" in the army there are also Turks and Slavs, the most incomprehensible why the hell is the horde rushing to the west what is the point


                        Of course there was no yoke. The Golden Horde military garrisons did not stand in Russian cities. Serfs and peasants worked for their princes. The princes themselves ruled their estates, only went for the "appointment" to reign-yarlyk. And only the tax was collected, the monetary value of a tenth of the property - tithe. So this tax was paid by both nomads on the Irtysh and the mountaineers of the Caucasus. The Orthodox Church had a label and other supporting documents about the inviolability of the church. Therefore, Orthodoxy flourished in Russia. And this was a consequence of the law - Yasa of Genghis Khan.

                        Yasa has a section dealing with crimes against religion, morality, and established customs. Such are recognized - Oppression of ANY OF THE CHURCHES AND THE Clergy EXISTING IN THE WORLD, INSURANCE OF THE RITUALIST CHARACTER, intentional lie, adultery, debauchery.

                        The Golden Horde was, in modern times, a Federal state with the broadest autonomy for its subjects. Beginning with the khan of Uzbek, who abolished basquality, the entire tax from Russia was collected by the Moscow prince Ivan Kalita and his descendants, how he managed to persuade this is unknown. But from that time, the entire tax was taken to Moscow, and from there it was centralized to the Horde, with one train, or something. Therefore, Moscow also rose among Russian cities, and the capital city Vladimir has since faded.

                        And Russian wars, already as part of the Horde forces, smashed the Hungarians and Poles. And even under the supreme khan of Karakorum Ugadei or Khubilai, the Russian military corps intended for a campaign in Vietnam lodged in Beijing. But it seems he did not participate in the campaign. The jungle climate was very unusual for the Russians.

                        Something like this.
          2. 0
            27 March 2013 12: 51
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            that the whole period when we lived in a single state was a grief for the Kazakhs, the Kazakhs were oppressed, the language was destroyed, etc. etc.
            As it turns out, not only for the Kazakhs, it turns out that the Russians "oppressed and oppressed" everyone in the USSR! am
    3. ed65b
      0
      29 March 2013 23: 51
      You’re wrong, there are no insults to the Kazakhs, there are no insults and Uighurs and Uzbeks and Russians, and many others who live in the Republic of Kazakhstan. there are simply insults from the nationalists who live in the Republic of Kazakhstan and proudly calling themselves Kazakhs of all the rest. not the titular ones. That's all.
  9. The cat
    -27
    26 March 2013 16: 52
    the phrase of the famous political instructor Vasily Klochkov: “Russia is great, but nowhere to retreat. Behind Moscow! ”

    If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      -10
      26 March 2013 18: 28
      As far as I remember, several of them served in the ranks of the ROA
    2. Svobodny
      +12
      26 March 2013 18: 29
      Quote: Elgato
      If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?

      Her heroes remembered her, who dragged across the snowdrifts toward Berlin. Well remembered ... for the rest of your life laughing
      1. +2
        26 March 2013 19: 11
        Quote: Elgato
        If all 28 Panfilov died, then who remembered the phrase?

        Quote: Svobodny
        Her heroes remembered her, who dragged across the snowdrifts toward Berlin. Well remembered ... for the rest of your life

        This is a fairly well-known story that journalists have come up with this phrase ... google find hi However, I note that I do not know how true it is ... request
        There is the same version about the words of Alexander Nevsky: “Those who take the sword will die by the sword ... Who will come to us with a sword, by the sword will perish"

        Those who take the sword will die with the sword - an expression from the Gospel (Mat., 26, 52). P.A. Pavlenko (1899-1951), who set himself the task of creating the image of a patriotic commander, in a well-known script put these words in a slightly modified form in the mouth of Alexander Nevsky: “Whoever enters us with a sword will die by the sword. The Russian land stood and stands on that! "(PA Pavlenko. Alexander Nevsky. Film novel). The film" Alexander Nevsky "was released on the screen on December 1, 1938. Text created by Pavlenko:" Who will enter us with a sword, from sword and perish "- was quoted more than once in newspaper articles and posters, as a true historical phrase of Alexander Nevsky.

        Encyclopedic Dictionary of winged words and expressions. - M .: Lokid-Press. Vadim Serov. 2003.
    3. 0
      26 March 2013 23: 00
      and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?
      1. The cat
        -3
        27 March 2013 00: 11
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?

        In the Soviet school taught so.
        Googled by the way, an ugly story looms
        http://magazines.russ.ru/novyi_mi/1997/6/petrov.html глава вторая
        1. +2
          27 March 2013 10: 00
          to choose from: either you studied very poorly or you had illiterate teachers
      2. Beck
        +5
        27 March 2013 09: 09
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and where did you get the idea that everyone was dead?


        Well, seriously. There was a battle, but certainly not 28 infantrymen with 50 fascist tanks. In the turmoil of battles, all the dead were given the Hero posthumously, but four at that time were in medical battalions for treatment of injuries. Shemyakin, Likhobaba and still do not remember. They were also considered dead in the confusion. So they remained alive.

        The fight was. What intensity, with what forces you can't get to the bottom of it now. But the war correspondent wrote his article based on this battle. And as usual in those days, for propaganda, to raise morale, and pripmsal 50 tanks. How many were unknown. And it was the war correspondent who wrote the words in his article "Great Russia, but nowhere to retreat. Moscow is behind!" And it was the correspondent who put these words into the mouth of the political instructor.

        But this does not diminish the heroism of the soldiers who defended Moscow. And from this, words do not fade in time. "GREAT RUSSIA, AND THERE IS NO LONGER RETURNING. MOSCOW LEFT!"
  10. +3
    26 March 2013 16: 54
    Oho-ho ... Somehow I wanted to go to Krasnovodsk, where my great-grandfather was buried and was surprised to learn that such a city does not exist, but there is an epic Turkmenbashi. I had such a face - belay .
    Soon, people who do not know the Turkic language in Asia will have nothing to do. The language can be broken: Burabai audany. recourse
    And if they also switch to the Latin alphabet, then in general a nightmare.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      26 March 2013 23: 23
      The word "district" does not exist in the Kazakh language. There is a word "audan" in the Kazakh language. The author of the article would still be outraged by the fact that in English New York is "city" and not "gorod".
      The name of the city of Shchuchinsk is derived from the name of the local lake - Shortankol (literally "Lake with pikes"). This part of the Akmola region is replete with names on the pike theme, there is the city of Shortandy (literally "The place where there are pikes"). The Russian name was made so as not to overload the region with names with the word "shortan" ("pike").
      The main place in the region is the Burabay area (Russian settlers changed this name into "Borovoye"). This is a famous resort in Kazakhstan, which is located 17 km from Shchuchinsk. Shchuchinsk itself is primarily perceived by Kazakhstanis as an "attachment" to Burabai. And in general, Shchuchinsk is constantly and stubbornly called by Kazakhstanis Burabai (Borov) - this is formally incorrect, but in essence it is. The phrase "to go to Borovoe (Burabay)" among the Kazakhs can actually mean "to go to Shchuchinsk".
      So do not be surprised that the district was simply renamed in honor of the actual center of the region - Burabay, and not Shchuchinsk. If they wanted to stupidly rename the Russian name, then the area would be called "Shortan Audany", but here they simply focused on another settlement - Burabay.

      Kazakhs do not care that someone might break their tongue trying to pronounce the name of a Kazakh settlement. Generally an absurd accusation. The names Dneprodzerdzhinsk, Kirovograd or Novotroitsk are more difficult for a foreigner than "Burabay", for example. But does it bother the Slavs? Of course not.

      What kind of Russians do Kazakhs write in what alphabet? Russians already mastered the Kazakh language in the old alphabet? Or Russians will not be able to read the inscriptions Astana, Almaty, Burabay, Pavlodar, Karagandy?
      1. 0
        27 March 2013 21: 51
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        What kind of Russians do Kazakhs write in what alphabet?

        Do you want Russian bilingualism? Or not already? Or all the words, words, words ...?
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          27 March 2013 22: 10
          gyyyy, but that the Russians in Kazakhstan were able to learn the Kazakh language in Cyrillic?))))))))))))))) for them, the Kazakh Cyrillic alphabet is also incomprehensible symbols.
          well, chitat 'ljuboi, kto uchilsja w shkole can do the Latin alphabet. Ty zhe ponimaesh, chto ja seichas tebe napisal?
          1. +1
            27 March 2013 22: 34
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            gyyyy

            Relatives told that on the Alma-Ata tobacco they paid extra for knowledge of the English language, and they did free courses. The results were not feeble; you did not create a normal system of teaching the state language. Looks like it's not very necessary all the same. Well, the Russian language still bothers you. So there are "unidentified" persons offering to change the inscriptions on the monuments.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +2
              27 March 2013 23: 01
              poor Russians! in any CIS country, they cannot learn the state language. or Turkic, Ukrainian, Baltic, Caucasian languages ​​are the most difficult in the world, or, sorry, someone has serious problems with the perception of new information.
              By the way, Germans, Koreans, Chechens do not have special problems in learning the Kazakh language. only Russians have such a problem.
              even amers for half a year or a year somehow learn the Kazakh language, more than once I came across this.
              1. 0
                27 March 2013 23: 05
                what is your political passion for turning everything over
                language is a means of communication, and where Kazakhs and Russians lived compactly and in approximately equal proportions, Russian Kazakhs were fluent, by the way, like Tajik Tajik or others, naturally, where Kazakhs made up 10-17 percent spoke Russian
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  27 March 2013 23: 40
                  Vasilenko, do not talk nonsense. Nifiga do not speak our Russian Kazakh language. In 1991, less than 1% of Kazakhstani Russians knew Kazakh language, which was noted in the previous Soviet census.
                  1. +1
                    27 March 2013 23: 44
                    carefully read again what I wrote
                    Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR accounted for 18% in places dominated by Kazakhs, Russians owned Kazakhs, you didn’t live in the Kazssr according to your words, and therefore you cannot know the real situation

                    ps Either you stop poking or just try not to bother me
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      28 March 2013 00: 31
                      where did you get the figure of 18% ????? and name the number of Russian Kazakhstanis who owned Kazakh, based on Soviet censuses.

                      I lived in Orenburg and several times a year traveled "across the river" to Kazakhstan, where my parents' parents and a huge number of relatives lived with me - Aktyubinsk, Tselinograd, Alma-Ata, Dzhambul, Uralsk, etc.

                      Z.Y. You have not only the Kazakh language could not be deposited in the head, but also with the Russian language problems))))))))
                      1. 0
                        28 March 2013 00: 35
                        You see, former gbshniks visited you, and we are current members of the Central Control Commission
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 01: 06
                        Vasilenko, tired of his rubbish and boltology. Speak clearly, where are your numbers from?
                  2. +1
                    28 March 2013 00: 34
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    In 1991, less than 1% of Kazakhstani Russians knew Kazakh language, which was noted in the previous Soviet census.


                    Are you confusing anything?
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      0
                      28 March 2013 01: 10
                      Take the results of the 1989 census. Then 0,9% of Kazakhstani Russians said that they speak the Kazakh language (they can read and write).

                      Kazakhstan Census 2009:
                      6,3% of Russian Kazakhstanis said that they were able to read and write in Kazakh.
                      1. 0
                        28 March 2013 01: 54
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Take the results of the 1989 census. Then 0,9% of Kazakhstani Russians said that they speak the Kazakh language (they can read and write).

                        Actually, it was about fluency language, right?
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        28 March 2013 10: 15
                        fluent Russian - on the fingers and now you can count, not like in 1989.
                  3. -1
                    28 March 2013 23: 15
                    You should have seen a program of teaching the Kazakh language at school. Idiotic and uninteresting textbooks (though I studied before 2001) in comparison with English textbooks. language, for example. Accordingly, for 10 years of study, I know English much better than Kazakh.
                  4. -1
                    28 March 2013 23: 15
                    You should have seen a program of teaching the Kazakh language at school. Idiotic and uninteresting textbooks (though I studied before 2001) in comparison with English textbooks. language, for example. Accordingly, for 10 years of study, I know English much better than Kazakh.
              2. Earthman
                +2
                27 March 2013 23: 10
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                By the way, Germans, Koreans, Chechens do not have special problems in learning the Kazakh language. only Russians have such a problem.
                even amers for half a year or a year somehow learn the Kazakh language, more than once I came across this.

                last year, an Englishman taught Kazakh in Kazakh villages
              3. Yarbay
                +3
                27 March 2013 23: 48
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                poor Russians! in any CIS country, they cannot learn the state language. or Turkic, Ukrainian, Baltic, Caucasian languages ​​are the most difficult in the world, or, sorry, someone has serious problems with the perception of new information.

                It depends on the person himself and on the circumstances!
                In Soviet times, very few Russians knew Azerbaijani, now 90 percent of those living know it!
                For example, the hero of our country, Yura Kovalev, knew the Azerbaijani language better than some Azerbaijanis, but there was a neighbor who did not know at all, but in difficult years of the early 90s she went to Turkey to earn money!
                Arrived a year later, she spoke pure Turkish !!
                I asked her. You lived here for thirty years and said that you cannot learn a language, but in a year you learned it !!
                She answered, life made !!
                1. 0
                  27 March 2013 23: 55
                  language is a means of communication, if it is in demand it is known if not then ..
                  1. Yarbay
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 00: 03
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    language is a means of communication, if it is in demand it is known if not then ..

                    No Vladimir. Are you mistaken, as if you live in a foreign country, the language of that country is not claimed ??
                    They were just lazy, they didn’t count !!
                    And now the conditions have changed and everyone knows Azerbaijani well, since everything is in the Azerbaijani language !!
                    1. +1
                      28 March 2013 00: 07
                      in my class of 30 there were 4 Kazakhs 2 did not know a language at all
                      about it was not considered it funny Three musketeers in Kazakh to buy was easier than simple but in Russian.
                      1. Yarbay
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 00: 26
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        about it was not considered it funny Three musketeers in Kazakh to buy was easier than simple but in Russian.

                        it wasn’t easier for us to buy books in Azerbaijani and you were right Azerbaijanis who did not know the Azerbaijani language well, because it was believed that in order to have prospects in the future, you must definitely know Russian !! that, as I wrote above, they didn’t count anymore!
                        Let's be honest!
                      2. -2
                        28 March 2013 00: 30
                        can you name a lot of children who want to learn too much?
                        Well, to be honest, and the Kazakh woman who resolds Kazakh was generally sorry for everything ...
                        about the lack of respect for culture, I think that in childhood I read the Kazakh epic more "nationalist" Marek
                      3. Yarbay
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 00: 36
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        can you name a lot of children who want to learn too much?

                        Vladimir and too much ???
                        Parents did not ask children !!
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        well, to be honest

                        Well, this is of course particular, but here I agree that in many things they themselves were to blame !!
                        I remember in Georgia with my uncle went to the store to buy bread !!
                        When the Russian uncle asked for bread they did not answer and didn’t serve him, they thought Georgians !! When they learned that they quickly served from Baku saying that it’s embarrassing for the Georgian to not know Georgian, they were mistaken)))
                      4. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 01: 18
                        say so, vova, that the Kazakh language was superfluous for you. and no need to shove on your teacher. because then it turns out that 100% of teachers of the Kazakh language are mediocre, because Russians have not been able to learn at least the basics of the language. Russians are trying so hard, they want so much to learn the state language, but damn it, this is such an impossible task! ay-ay-ay! and there is not a single Kazakh around to help, and self-instruction manuals are not sold, and there are no language courses. how can you learn the language? You have already read the entire Kazakh epic, but you still don’t know what gender is "eaglet")))))) you are a dreamer) you are such a connoisseur of Kazakh culture as a ballerina from me With the naked eye you can see that you know NOTHING about the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan. That he lived here, that he did not live - one result. You don’t even know how the president’s surname is spelled correctly)))))) no Kazakhstani would ever think that it’s possible to write Nazarbayev’s surname with some other letters)))) and this is not the first time you have made mistakes on a level location. It would be like writing the name of the Russian president obstinately as Pulin and not Putin.
                      5. Gur
                        +1
                        April 1 2013 10: 55
                        Well, maybe of course not all 100%, but most teachers are mediocrity and not only the Kazakh language. And also ugly and mediocre textbooks, and the educational program too (although in Russia it is not better with it). Teachers run away from schools, since writing manuals and reports, making plans has become an unbearable activity. In schools, two copies of textbooks, Atamura and Russian publications, atamura (the name is suitable) lies on the table, the Russian edition under the table. And God forbid, those who check it will see these textbooks, so they yell at the mouth accusing the yoke of Russians at 70 years old (for some reason, it’s 70, you can see the Russian yoke was still like this, but the Soviet is already really IGO) and this is in the face of Russian-speaking teachers. Maybe I exaggerate one episode only (this is just about education) But this fact made people sell their property and bring them to their historical homeland, and this despite the fact that 90% of Russians are in that place of residence. I am not saying that one does not need to learn Kazakh or against it, who needs to learn. Enough courses and materials. If only this matter would not have been in vain, since, no matter how you know the language, you remain Russian, which means that you are the one from whom you put up with IGO.
                      6. Beck
                        +2
                        April 1 2013 13: 50
                        Quote: GUR
                        that they put us in the framework of dumb cattle who should listen and swallow it, and if you don’t like it, you can express it but then look for another job or even change citizenship. What actually the people do.


                        Something you confuse the fellow countryman private with the general. Bastik and in Africa bastik, Head and at the bottom of the sea, Head. If I also express a zealous opinion against the boss, I will be fired and he will not look at the fact that I am Kazakh. All bosses first need submission. And then the Schoolboy, Svoik, and Khrapunov were our ministers. And Tereshchenko was the prime minister, and the prime minister was Uyghur Masimov. And Khrapunov calmed down because he stole money, and not because Russian. And he fled not to Russia, but to Switzerland. And the Minister of Emergencies is now Bozhko. And we have Slavs akims of all levels.

                        Quote: GUR
                        Atamura and Russian publications, atamura (the name is suitable) lies on the table, the Russian edition under the table.


                        And with the textbooks we have the same story as in Russia. Everything will not settle down. Russian textbooks, too, will not come to a consensus. But there’s nothing to ironize and humiliate the words of another language, or are you a chauvinist? If a chauvinist then you can continue. The book edition of the textbooks is called Atamura. It is possible that it produces bad textbooks, but to whose you have such disregard for the word. Atamura is translated as Native speech. And are you laughing at it? What is lacking in horizons and well-read so as not to scoff at another language. Here, the Kazakhs do not think to laugh at the Russian language due to the fact that the Russian word God is translated into the Kazakh language as r ... obviously. Both Atamura and God belong to that class of words, which in their pronunciation in other languages ​​mean different concepts.

                        What lacks education and upbringing, so as not to offend foreign languages?
                      7. Gur
                        +1
                        April 1 2013 15: 33
                        No, I'm not a chauvinist, I'm a realist. I think your national pride would probably not allow you to listen in a country where everyone is equal and brothers, something similar from your boss or your nation? Even if he’s a bastard. (As for Khrapunov, where else can he run, then he seems to be not Russian either) I don’t laugh at the word and its translation, I laugh at the textbooks and those who write them, and this is complete nonsense of this word, and it’s not my fault that it so harmoniously coincided.
                2. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  28 March 2013 00: 36
                  while in Kazakhstan, Vasilenki think that the Russians were completely terrorized and aggrieved, but it turns out that the Russians in the KZ absolutely calmly manage without knowledge of the state language. this does not bother them. these are the oddities of Kazakh oppression. somehow strange we make them turn into Kazakhs, if they still can’t connect two words in Kazakh. the fact that in KZ there is no infringement on the basis of language does not reach Vasilenko. and therefore, our Russians live in the Russian language environment, without experiencing any problems.
                  1. Yarbay
                    0
                    28 March 2013 00: 45
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    while in Kazakhstan, Vasilenki think that the Russians were completely terrorized and aggrieved, but it turns out that the Russians in the KZ absolutely calmly manage without knowledge of the state language. this does not bother them. these are the oddities of Kazakh oppression. somehow strange we make them turn into Kazakhs, if they still can’t connect two words in Kazakh. the fact that in KZ there is no infringement on the basis of language does not reach Vasilenko. and therefore, our Russians live in the Russian language environment, without experiencing any problems.

                    I don’t know how it is with you, but most of us now perfectly know Azerbaijani !! In many respects everyone is forced to use Latin, everywhere knowledge of Azerbaijani is first and foremost required, almost everywhere, state work is mandatory!
  11. 0
    26 March 2013 16: 54
    Quote: Krasnoyarets
    Claimed by Nazarbayev, at such a pace the Russians will soon be outlawed.

    Kazakhs will learn the Latin script and will speak Turkish, even in Russia in Tatarstan, earlier the Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, even earlier the Kazan province, and even earlier the Tatar Khanate, were going to introduce the Latin alphabet.
    1. +1
      26 March 2013 16: 56
      Well, you bent it, of course. Still, Kazakh and Turkish are quite different. This is even me - not a Kazakh, I know.
    2. Yarbay
      +1
      28 March 2013 01: 15
      Quote: valokordin
      Kazakhs will learn the Latin script and speak Turkish,

      And how do you see it?)))
      1. Marek Rozny
        +3
        28 March 2013 01: 27
        Yes, he froze garbage. he thinks that the whole difference between Kazakh and Turkish is in the alphabet. another expert linguist.
  12. +7
    26 March 2013 16: 56
    The article is a drain from the finger of a problem. Someone said something awkward, no one would know about it. And no one would pay attention to why the problem can be inflated where it really is not. It would be better to talk about how in Kazakhstan textbooks stories. the history of Russian-Kazakh relations is presented one-sidedly. And children from childhood absorb the fact that the Kazakhs were only oppressed at all times by the Russian Empire and the USSR. And there is, on the other hand, information about the development of industry, about the construction of cities and deposits, about the general literacy of peoples, and so on. It is very one-sided, of course it is clear that we need to raise the level of self-awareness of the nation, but we must do this truthfully, talking about the contribution to the development of Kazakhstan and other nationalities
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      26 March 2013 23: 26
      Did you read Kazakh history books yourself? Or do you know only from the words of hysterical journalists?
  13. +11
    26 March 2013 17: 07
    The neighbors have only one tendency - either to deny the Great Patriotic War and consider it evil (the Baltic states, Georgia), or to stick out the feats of their own (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, etc.)
    These wise men forgot one thing - it was not Kazakhs, Turkmens, Chuvashs or Russians who defeated Germany and Japan. I defeated the Soviet people! Multinational, single. mighty!
    And dividing into parts is an initiative of good friends from across the ocean and they sang along.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      26 March 2013 23: 28
      They wrote complete garbage, demonstrating absolute ignorance of the topic. In Kazakhstan, the memory of the Second World War is sacred, the monuments are not demolished, but rather they are built, and the Kazakhs erect them not only inside Kazakhstan, but also on the territory of the Russian Federation and other countries.
  14. +3
    26 March 2013 17: 15
    Apparently, systematic work is underway to prevent integration in the post-Soviet space.
    1. avt
      0
      26 March 2013 19: 25
      Quote: sprut
      Apparently, systematic work is underway to prevent integration in the post-Soviet space

      And not only . The Soviet past hinders everyone. State national elites to strengthen their power, in the most radical-minded is simply based on the hatred of the USSR, the liberals are hindered by the "scoop" at least by comparison with the present day because comparison of the amount of sausage in the store is no longer convincing. Take the Baltic states, Saakashvili, the western part of Ukraine, in Russia, too, Ivans of kinship who do not remember those numbers are still giving out those numbers. Take, for example, the liberoid nonsense of Popov and Chubais about Vlasov, who, according to their legends, was eager to create a center of resistance to Stalin in Leningrad. the monument to the Soviet general was also pushed aside - the Kazakh was not the titular one. In general, this is all sad, but one must not give up. Even a small but competent article about our great common past, confirmed by historical facts, is very useful and weighty against the background of empty barking of "historians-destalinizers" and liberal nationalists.
    2. +5
      26 March 2013 21: 01
      Well, this is the "pepper shaker" Clinton said that she would not allow the revival of the USSR, here are the advisers from the USA and Britain and "pouring" into the ears of the leadership of Kazakhstan to make Kazakhstan move away from Russia.
  15. +1
    26 March 2013 17: 16
    Even in Brotherly Kazakhstan there are puppets ov! Damn, so that all of them are covered by Washington. Remove the inscription on the monument to the Heroes of Panfilov’s, and then what? Denial of a common story? Accusing Russia of all troubles, what is Ukraine doing?
    1. Earthman
      +4
      26 March 2013 17: 55
      Quote: GoldKonstantin
      Accusation of Russia in all troubles

      Well, that’s how it is, 80% of it is.
      Only 20% are due to geography, nature and population.
      Look at the Russian programs, what’s good there, well, ok, there’s almost mass Internet, but here too there’s a massive RAP
      1. 0
        26 March 2013 23: 03
        and what exactly is included in these 80%?
  16. +7
    26 March 2013 17: 31
    Blessed is the city of Faithful, which is built grandfather's dream
    Blessed is the eternal city that is now called Alma-Ata.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      26 March 2013 23: 32
      A city called Almaty existed even when the Russians were still under the "Tatar-Mongol" yoke. There is no need to misinterpret the history, even in TSB it was written that the military base (fort) Verny was built on the site of the EXISTING settlement of Almaty at that time.
      And the word "Alma-Ata" is generally nonsense from the point of view of the Kazakh language. It sounds like "kind of in Kazakh", but in fact it's linguistic crap. "Thanks" to the Russian officials of the 20s who did not know the local language and gave birth to such a word.
      1. -1
        27 March 2013 07: 41
        You apparently excavations of the ancient city of Iranian-speaking tribes mean what relation the Kazakhs have to the Persians? .... Before the founding of the Russian Faithful, there was no other CITY in that place. I emphasize specifically for you Kazakhs - chauvinists - CITIES.
        1. Beck
          +2
          27 March 2013 09: 40
          Quote: Smoke
          .By the founding of the Russian Faithful, no other CITY existed in that place. I emphasize specifically for you Kazakhs - chauvinists - CITIES.


          The city in the Maloalmatinsky hollow was. And it was already after the Saks, in the Middle Ages.
          By the way, Saki of Iranian origin did not build cities. Prideful, but not cities, were built 3000 years ago when they were engaged in livestock breeding. That is, they lived in one place, and herds were driven away to pastures. But they also stopped building hillforts when they switched to more efficient nomadic cattle breeding.

          The existing city in the Middle Ages, on the site of today's Almaty, and minted its money. I agree this city turned into a settlement by the 19th century, but people lived there. And then all people choose the most convenient place for housing, and the mechanism of thinking is the same for all people.

          When the question was where to lay the Russian fortress, the Russian people also took a closer look and realized that there was no better place in the district than the settlement of Almaty. Well, why lay a fortress on inconvenience.
          1. +1
            27 March 2013 21: 55
            Quote: Beck
            When the question was where to lay the Russian fortress, the Russian people also took a closer look and realized that there was no better place in the district than the settlement of Almaty. Well, why lay a fortress on inconvenience.

            Can I list the buildings that the Russians demolished in order to lay a fortress?
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              27 March 2013 22: 15
              residential buildings were demolished under the new layout of the fortress. in Almaty at least where you dig, you will find the remains of the old Dorussian settlement. I personally, digging a garage on Al-Farabi Ave., dug up a bunch of all kinds of different things.
              By the way, nothing was left of the Russian fortress either. back in Soviet times, everything was demolished. and even before this earthquake destroyed everything. there are only a few examples of the architecture of the Faithful - Zenkov Cathedral, for example. But we are not saying that if the Verna buildings were not left, then the Faithful did not exist.
              1. -3
                27 March 2013 22: 38
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                in Almaty at least where you dig, you will find the remains of the old Dorussian settlement

                I'm sober
              2. -1
                27 March 2013 22: 48
                it’s true that the fortress is much more north than the prospectus indicated to you, and ravings about what else was demolished in Soviet times are also not necessary, and there are still plenty of examples of Verny’s architecture, a fabric store on Gorky and kirlymyrly, to the house of the officer’s assembly, unfortunately thanks to the city administration already in the period of independence was destroyed by the city governor’s doi
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +3
                  27 March 2013 23: 16

                  The silver dirham minted in the city of Almaty in the year 684 of the Hijra (1285-1286).
                  In the field is tamga 1 with six “pearls” around the central line and two ornamental vignettes with “knots of happiness” on the sides. Around, between single-line rims, there is an inscription in a geometrical kufi font, the beginning and end of which are separated by an icon in the form of a double nodule or "heart":
                  "The power [belongs] to Allah the One, the Almighty!"

                  Ob.st. In the field - tamga 2, decorated around with "pearls" and vignettes, as on sheets. Inscription: "This dirham was minted in Balad Almaty in the year 684".
                  Diameter 22 mm, weight 1,87 g.

                  Regarding the pre-revolutionary houses of Almaty, I wrote that single buildings have been preserved. Read carefully.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2013 23: 23
                    Once again we didn’t drink at the Brudershaft, then carefully look at the excavation maps, they were conducted in the foothills, the fortress is located much lower, I am surprised that you have not yet brought a photo of the Saki war
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      27 March 2013 23: 54
                      Yes, I don’t care who you drank with at broodershaft and who calls you what. you were the first to insult both me and the Kazakhs, but at the same time you demand that you be called "you". with a fig, comrade "refugee"? here you are constantly talking about the half-starved feral Kazakhs, who have intimidated Russian fellow citizens. Why am I going to respect you? you are an enemy of Russian-Kazakh relations. you talk nonsense, in which someone then begins to believe. and all just to cover up the fact that you simply turned out to be useless in KZ. and even your Russian acquaintances in Kazakhstan do not understand you, as you yourself said about it.
                      now in Almaty-Verny-Alma-Ata. even Bartold in 1894 mentioned that the newly-made residents of Verny dismantled old Kazakh houses from burnt bricks for their needs. you now call Bartold a Kazakh history rewriter.
        2. Marek Rozny
          +1
          27 March 2013 11: 19
          Smoke, go into the fog with your stupid things. Or at least open TSB.
  17. heavy tank
    +2
    26 March 2013 17: 38
    you all immediately thought that something was going wrong in Kazakhstan. And what is there in Russia itself? know Kazakhstan and Russia as two pages of a coin. and all this is some kind of garbage.
  18. +7
    26 March 2013 17: 45
    This article is a direct example of provocation ...
    This monument, as well as other monuments of the Great Patriotic War, is treated as its monuments - subjects of our national pride ... Panfilov is the heroes of Kazakhstan and here they consider it their own ..
    In Kazakhstan there are few families that somehow did not touch this war .. Marek and Aksakal and Bek and others have already written on this site about the participation of Kazakhs and Kazakhstanis and the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union.
    Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense catch up Russian (or Russian-speaking) .. To some of them it is itching to somehow distort, slander, defame Kazakhstan and the Kazakhs ..
    Interestingly and how the majority, like here on the site and among the Russian inhabitants ready, so sincerely believe in this nonsense... "Blessed is he who believes .."
    I know that for most of you I will not prove anything ... You are already ready to accept any muck about Kazakhstan in advance .. But I will express my opinion ... IMHO
    1. Earthman
      +1
      26 March 2013 18: 01
      Quote: Alibekulu

      This article is a direct example of provocation ...

      Above, I wrote as "Pro-Russian" minded people write articles like this. They increase their little misunderstanding into READY informational food so that the Russians can eat it, but a thinking person does not need anything of this kind
    2. 0
      26 March 2013 18: 11
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense is picked up by Russians (or Russian-speaking) ..

      Type in Google something like "a monument to 28 Panfilov's men ..." and you will find in the comments of the Kazakhs a proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park "... is that Moscow or something? ..". There is no smoke without fire.
      1. +2
        26 March 2013 18: 23
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Another thing is interesting, it's like this "gossip", this nonsense is picked up by Russians (or Russian-speaking) ..
        Was mammoth
        Type in Google something like "a monument to 28 Panfilov's men ..." and you will find in the comments of Kazakhs a proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park "... is that Moscow or something? ..". There is no smoke without fire

        But you and the finished example ... hi
        1. +5
          26 March 2013 19: 10
          Quote: Alibekulu
          And here is a ready-made example for you.

          Do you know this book? It contains a small set of 495 pages of the names of the victims. Of these, four are my uncles. Two of them are buried in the same mass grave near the village of Kryukovo. Is yours there?
          And when you Natsik raise their heads, rewrite history and on this site you justify them, then do not wait for silence.
          I am Ryazan, born in Tver
          1. +1
            26 March 2013 19: 27
            Quote: Was Mammoth
            Do you know this book?
            Are yours there?
            You justify them
            do not wait for silence.
            I am Ryazan, born in Tver


            1. Familiar and ours have it ...
            2. 2 maternal grandfather's brother .. grandfather himself did not get to the front - the war was over ..
            3. I do not condone them ..
            4. And I am silent, when you and your ilk distort and distort the facts - I am not going to ...
            5. I am Kostanay, born in the same place ...
            6. What kind of-tribe speak ???
            7. Any questions???
            1. -2
              26 March 2013 19: 46
              Quote: Alibekulu
              Any questions???

              Is.
              Quote: Alibekulu
              And I am silent, when you and others like you distort and distort the facts - I’m not going to ...

              What did I distort? That there are practically no Russian street names in the city, that history is being rewritten ...? Now we got to the monuments. Unfortunately, this is true. And let's pull Natsik together, not justify. We also divorced them today.
              About the book. It is only in Alma-Ata.
              1. +3
                26 March 2013 23: 25
                Quote: Was Mammoth
                1. There are no Russian streets left
                According to Kostanay-from there, as an example:
                "Maple, Cherry ..."
                Publication Date: 08.04.10 22: 02 (Read: 749)
                All streets Sunny in Kostanay-2 change their names. Total of such streets in the microdistrict 11. By decision of Maslikhat Kostanay, they are now assigned new names: Dostyk, Peace, Covenant, Samal, Cherry Kaynar, Split, MapleAksu Student and Lokomotivnaya.

                As the head of the Maslikhat administration of Kostanay, Leila Umirbaeva, informed NG, these changes were adopted taking into account the opinion of the population:

                Zulfiya NABIEVA "Nasha Gazeta" weekly
                http://www.kostanay.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1248
                Just count how many of 11 streets are in Russian ???
                2.About the book. It is only in Alma-Ata.
                Ours should have been in Kostanay and the region, I won’t remember exactly without thinking ...
                3.We have them too now divorced.
                And we have enough ... you can send for export ...
                4. What did I distort?
                Data....that's when the slogan will be replaced at the Glory Memorial
                then let's talk ... And this is typical OBS
                5. "a proposal to demolish even the Cathedral in this park"
                And they say that bulls are milking ... Also discuss ?? !! request
                1. -1
                  27 March 2013 21: 27
                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  4. What did I distort?
                  Facts .... that's when they replace the slogan at the Glory Memorial
                  then we'll talk ... And so this is a typical OBS

                  Then it will be too late. Are you for remaking the monuments?
                  1. +4
                    27 March 2013 22: 13
                    Quote: Was Mammoth
                    Are you for reworking the monuments?

                    Well, how to talk to you what
                    I will try, completely on the fingers ... with elements of pragmatic logic ...
                    Nobody will "touch" the monument, and now why:
                    1. If only because the Kazakhs would be proud, and sometimes even snobbery
                    remember ... and at an opportunity, let's say the same Great Russians are reminded: "We defended Moscow" ... Why fuy the Kazakhs (like any other nationalities) would refuse ... such a cool opportunity to pantanize ... Sorry, for a syllable - you just have to, to explain it like that, otherwise it doesn't come through normally ..
                    2. The reaction of Great Russians, as a rule, manifested itself clearly here, reminds me of the following situation:
                    Quarreled husband and wife. He says to her:
                    - Honey, you're wrong.
                    And she told him:
                    - Oh, I'm wrong, right?
                    So I'm telling a lie?
                    In other words, I am lying - breach, that is.
                    If I break, does that mean I'm a dog?
                    Ahhh, mom, he called me a bitch !!!
                    1. -1
                      27 March 2013 22: 57
                      Quote: Alibekulu
                      Nobody will "touch" the monument

                      God forbid! About nobody, I don’t believe. Not Great Russians suggested changing the inscriptions on the memorial, "supplementing" it. Go to your sites. Just remember the saying about the log in the eye. And about the joke, I know a couple on a similar topic. Yes, administrators will not understand.
                      1. +1
                        27 March 2013 23: 11
                        There was a mammoth ... Vasilenko Vladimir ... Krasnoyarets ..

                        Better than Goethe, you will not say: "God, how great is your menagerie!"

                        R.S. Robyat, and you honestly..the mood you raised to me .. laughing
                        So that hi
                      2. -3
                        27 March 2013 23: 15
                        as usual, "myself" instead of a decent answer
                        can you refute me with examples or indicate where I told a lie?
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        +3
                        27 March 2013 23: 57
                        it feels like there’s a conversation with the wall ... NOBODY OFFERED even changing the inscription! Veterans have suggested ADD inscription in this complex. Not necessarily even next to the phrase Klochkova! Why do you compose nonsense for yourself and then take offense at it? These beinensons have dodged a provocative little article with a quirky syllable, and you are glad to learn.
              2. Marek Rozny
                +2
                26 March 2013 23: 35
                And in your city there are streets of Lenin, Marx, Sovetskaya, Kommunisticheskaya, Proletarskaya, Engels and others? Or renamed? By the way, Tver is the former Kalinin. Would you like to make a groan about the renaming of "Russian" names in Russia?
                1. +2
                  26 March 2013 23: 48
                  And where are the names of the cities of Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk? In Russia, this is also not all right
                  1. +2
                    27 March 2013 00: 11
                    Quote: smsk
                    In Russia, this is also not all right
                    All pretty squinted, but you need to stop sometime!
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +2
                      27 March 2013 13: 38
                      Quote: Denis
                      All pretty squinted, but you need to stop sometime!

                      Then maybe it’s better to start with yourself, and not start blaming a neighbor for what you’re doing yourself?
                      1. +2
                        27 March 2013 18: 05
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        start with yourself, not start blaming a neighbor
                        I’m trying, is it just that, thoughts are not a switch on the chic brain switch
                        Is it a change of names, or rather a return
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk
                        someone is offended. Unless Stalingrad, but here it’s difficult
                        It's about cities, and with a monument, to paraphrase the Nikitins, a big HZ for a small, for a small company like this, a huge such HZ
                        If truth is served, then disgust
                        If you write, it’s even worse. Not in Kazakhstan, in the fact that who starts it all
                        So huge such HZ
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +3
                    27 March 2013 11: 30
                    Quote: smsk
                    And where are the names of the cities of Kuibyshev, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sverdlovsk? In Russia, this is also not all right

                    When "Soviet" names are erased in Russia, this is normal in the eyes of Russians. And when they do it abroad, they get into a form of hysteria. At the same time, they are modestly silent about the fact that in independent Kazakhstan they calmly give names in honor of non-Kazakhs (I will list some new names of Almaty and Astana) - streets of Pushkin, Zataevich, Potanin, Gumilyov, Kubrin, Uspensky, Goncharov, Yanushkevich, Paklievsky, Zverev, Sidorkin, Radostovets, Kolpakovsky, Ivanov-Sokolsky, Zenkov, Ratushny, Nikolskaya, Prokofiev, Kravtsov, Scriabin, Katchenko, Radlov, i.e. in honor of those people that Kazakhstan is proud of. We have enough "our" Russian Personalities, after whom the Kazakhs name the streets, perpetuating the memory of them.
                2. 0
                  27 March 2013 12: 58
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  And in your city remained the streets of Lenin, Marx, Soviet, Communist, Proletarian, Engels and others?

                  In our stay! hi
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    27 March 2013 13: 21
                    for the sake of interest I looked at the street lists - you have enough erased names in Lipetsk - Molotov, Kaganovich, Stalin, Mikoyan, etc.
                    1. 0
                      27 March 2013 14: 13
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      you have enough erased names in Lipetsk - Molotov, Kaganovich, Stalin, Mikoyan, etc.
                      These were renamed during the USSR in the late 50s! hiIn general, I am for the return of historical names! hi
                3. 0
                  27 March 2013 21: 30
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  And in your city there are streets of Lenin, Marx, Sovetskaya, Kommunisticheskaya, Proletarskaya, Engels and others? Or renamed? By the way, Tver is the former Kalinin. Would you like to make a groan about the renaming of "Russian" names in Russia?

                  Yes, they stayed. I am for the Spanish experience - when in disputed places they use two or even three names
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    27 March 2013 21: 43
                    Was Mammoth, are you from Ryazan? Then what is it:

                    MAYOR OF THE CITY OF RYAZAN
                    DECISION
                    from 29 December 1993 N N 1042
                    ON THE RESTORATION OF HISTORICAL NAMES OF THE STREETS OF THE CITY OF RYAZAN

                    Considering the numerous wishes of the residents of the city, the proposals and conclusions of the commission on the name of urban facilities and in connection with the preparations for the 900th anniversary of the founding of the city of Ryazan, I decide:

                    1. To restore the historical names of streets in the central part of the city:
                    Revolution Street - in Cathedral Street
                    Podbelsky Street - to Pochtovaya Street
                    Lenin Street - to Astrakhan Street
                    Griboedov street - to Starogorshechnaya street
                    Shchedrin Street - to Nagornaya Street
                    Uritsky Street - to Priklonskaya Street (N 28 to N 69)
                    Polonsky Street - to Dvoryanskaya Street
                    Radishchev Street - to Zaryady Street
                    Frunze Street - to Pevcheskaya Street
                    Pozhalostina street - to Seleznevskaya street
                    Chapaev Street - to Rogozhinskaya Street
                    Yakhontov street - to Dyakonovskaya street
                    Kudryavtseva street - to Malomeshchanskaya street
                    Kalyaev Street - to Bolshaya Meshchanskaya Street
                    part of Pavlova street from N 1 to N 24 - to Nikolskaya street
                    part of Liebknecht street from N 24 to N 66 - to Voznesenskaya street
                    part of Liebknecht street from N 67 to N 145 - to Vvedenskaya street
                    part of the street Workers from N 18 to the end - in Dukhovskaya street
                    part of Sverdlov street from N 1 to N 24 - to Nikolodvoryanskaya street
                    part of Sverdlov Street from N 23 to N 56 - to Pravolybedskaya Street
                    part of Freedom Street from N 2 to N 56 - to Vladimirskaya Street
                    part of Freedom Street from N 61 to the end - to Malshinsky Street
                    Nekrasov street - to Boldyrevskaya street
                    Furmanov street - to Monastyrskaya street
                    Koltsova street - to Gorshechny Ryad street
                    2. To instruct the Bureau of Technical Inventory to draw up and bring to all interested organizations the numbering scheme of residential buildings, public and industrial buildings on the streets that received the previous names.
                    3. The Department of Urban Prefectures, together with the prefecture of the Soviet District, the housing authorities of departments and organizations to ensure phased re-registration of citizens, the installation of new corner stencils with street names, license plates of residential buildings and public buildings. (Duration - 1994).
                    4. To instruct the Department of Architecture and Urban Planning in the 1st quarter of 1994 to submit an agreed project proposal for the reconstruction of the central square of the city for the subsequent adoption of a decision on its name.
                    5. Control is assigned to the first deputy mayor of the city for the organization of management of V. Shanin. Report progress on September 01.09.1994, XNUMX.

                    Mayor of Ryazan
                    V.V. RYUMIN
                    1. 0
                      27 March 2013 23: 04
                      By order of Ryumin, a monument to Lenin in Ryazan was demolished. Now he is again standing in its historical place. And I wrote to you about Spain for good reason.
        2. 0
          26 March 2013 23: 30
          Nowadays, trends about reburial, dismantling of monuments of the Soviet era, as you think, may be fashionable. Maybe we can also move this monument to a better place. And in its place to put just a monument to the victims of the December 1986 Events?
          It’s so uncomfortable standing on Zheltoksan St. and the view is closed, and in general, many Almaty residents do not like its location.


          What about heroes? Who are they why I don’t know? Enlighten

          it's about Victory Day
          I suggest everyone for whom this holiday is not important, send somewhere to Samoli or to Syria
    3. +5
      26 March 2013 20: 47
      Most Russians will never say anything bad about the Kazakhs. And the article is provocative, so that we dog here with each other. At least a little, but the author is pleased
    4. -1
      26 March 2013 23: 05
      unfortunately - the water is grinding away the stone and the fact that the period when we were a single state is now mostly presented as a great grief for the Kazakhs, too, will gradually give their sprouts.
      read the comments on azattyk, law.kz and the like
  19. Lignitz
    +1
    26 March 2013 18: 05
    Quote: Iraclius
    Oho-ho ... Somehow I wanted to go to Krasnovodsk, where my great-grandfather was buried and was surprised to learn that such a city does not exist, but there is an epic Turkmenbashi. I had such a face - belay .
    Soon, people who do not know the Turkic language in Asia will have nothing to do. The language can be broken: Burabai audany. recourse
    And if they also switch to the Latin alphabet, then in general a nightmare.

    Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.
    1. Earthman
      +1
      26 March 2013 18: 08
      Quote: Lignitz
      Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.

      This is still the most famous, if you dig deeper, it will generally be like excavating dinosaurs, only them in the ground, and digging out words in words)))
      1. +2
        26 March 2013 21: 18
        Quote: Earthman
        Something your language does not break when you utter purely Turkic words: comrade, factory, bazaar, swag, ataman, Yesaul, chicken, etc.
        This is still the most famous, if you dig deeper, it will generally be like excavating dinosaurs, only them in the ground, and digging out words in words)))

        This is us in the course. Suleimenova passed. Türks (Kazakhs) descendants of the Sumerians, Russians borrowed almost all the defining words from the Türks, a little directly from the Sumerians in some way, the rest from the Europeans. This Russian is a Turkic union of 12 tribes led by with Turks, Thuringia, Tuscany, Balts, etc.
        To elevate the steppe without lowering the mountains is, in principle, an impossible task.
        Petukhov was looking for a proto-language in us, in Kazakhstan Suleimenov.
        Let them look for nothing to do.
        1. Lignitz
          +2
          27 March 2013 05: 22
          You cannot forbid a person to search, if Suleimenov writes something, this should not bother anyone, no one is forced to accept his point of view. When he released his book, he did not think that some reader out of a thousand would disagree. He just wanted to voice his point of view. I disagree, the flag is in your hands! Do not bother others to engage in self-knowledge. And you should carefully read the Word about Igor's regiment. I read the comments of Likhachev, other researchers and scientists, all of them could not explain difficult passages, many words of that era that were incomprehensible to the modern Russian ear. The only person who got to the point = Suleimenov, so there was such a frenzied persecution - they even forced the books to be withdrawn from sale and burned. Such a shameful reprisal against the book led to the fact that the book "Az and I" was equal in price to the price of a Zhiguli. And when, like that, the same Russian scientists (not an illiterate crowd!) Trampled on this book, this means that everything was TRUE !!!!
          1. 0
            27 March 2013 08: 50
            Quote: Lignitz
            I do not agree, the flag in your hands!

            Poking is not good. At the educational program you obviously did not learn courtesy.
          2. 0
            27 March 2013 09: 01
            Quote: Lignitz
            The only person who hit the point = Suleimenov

            Especially in the place when he announced the agreement of the Tatar and Kazakh priests on the use of the letters "e" and "i". Seeing the guy also invented a time machine ..... laughing
          3. 0
            27 March 2013 09: 12
            Quote: Lignitz
            And you need to carefully read the Word about Igor’s regiment.

            By the way, I have no particular complaints about the book "Asia" ............
            But the other opus of Suleimenov is something, and he has a peculiarity, it starts to seem normal, but the further into the forest, the more firewood.
            One of his vision of the development of civilization is worth it. People fled from the scorching sun to the north, I quoted him. Apparently some were so carried away by the run that they only stopped on the coast of the northern seas.
    2. 0
      26 March 2013 20: 41
      Why exaggerate? It is one thing when a word entered the language a thousand years ago and another thing when they begin to rename the names of streets, cities, which was why in vain. What are the obstacles to Russian city names in Kazakhstan? Do they hurt national identity? What is it?
      Earthman, and you do not assent, but rather say that the Kazakh language is a classic example of purism and there are no borrowings in it. Or not and am I mistaken?
      You know very well that it is difficult for a newcomer to navigate city street names if they are not written in their native language. Why is this rubbish with Turkic roots in Russian?
      1. +3
        26 March 2013 23: 01
        Quote: Iraclius
        "Why is this nonsense with Turkic roots in Russian?"

        Poet Konstantin Simonov in a letter to O. Suleimenov about his book "Az and Ya": “The most important thing for me in the book is the approach to history - tough and at the same time fair. Putting the question in your book, a look at the story that is not at all breathing - where I turned and left, I’m close and dear as a Soviet writer, finally as a person, from childhood biased towards the history of his people, as it is, and with sweet and with the bitter. "
  20. ak orda
    +17
    26 March 2013 18: 06
    Russians in Russia and Russians in Kazakhstan - do not succumb to such provocations, no one is going to change the inscription on the monument. I myself am a Kazakh by nationality, I have Russian friends, they are like brothers to me! No wonder they say that Russia is a generous soul, I myself have been convinced of this! There are simply bad people in every nation, but this is not a reason to insult the whole nation.
    Glory to the fallen soldiers! Glory! And the Kazakhs, and Russian, Belarusians, Ukrainians, the Soviet Union !!! In unity is only our POWER. Respect each other, love and appreciate. The West does not want to come to terms with the fact that in Eurasia a new pole of FORCE, UNITY and Brotherhood - the Eurasian Union! Glory to the Union! May the Lord Almighty protect our Presidents Putin, Nazarbayev and Lukashenko! Peace be with you, friends !!
    1. Fox
      +9
      26 March 2013 18: 15
      Quote: ak orda
      I myself am a Kazakh by nationality, I have Russian friends, they are like brothers to me!

      ++++++++ I am Russian. I live in Samara. In the 90s and 00s I fought with the Kazakhs along with drug trafficking. Hello guys from Uralsk!
      1. ak orda
        +6
        26 March 2013 18: 20
        Mutually! Yes, the situation with drugs is certainly not for the better, but we must fight together, because they want to destroy the amers - with drugs, alcohol, tobacco and ethnic conflicts. But I'm sure - we all now know what their purpose is.
    2. +6
      26 March 2013 19: 03
      life has taught that any information received must be divided in two, but I agree with you! I live in the Saratov region, where there are many Kazakhs and I cannot say anything bad about this people. the article, in places, I think, is provocative, as well as the comments (and in other news too) of certain characters ... there are too many trolls ... on the other hand, since the trolls are drawn to "review", this is an indicator of the importance and necessity of this resource
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        26 March 2013 23: 39
        By the way, Saratov is from "Sara tau" ("Yellow mountains / hills").
        1. 0
          26 March 2013 23: 50
          However, now this hypothesis is refuted, since Sokolovaya was never yellow, and the forest always grew on it.
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            27 March 2013 11: 42
            Falcon Mountain in the paintings and in the photo:





            Saratov regional historian AF Leopoldov: "... The name Saratov consists of two words: sary - yellow and tau - mountain, and probably comes from a high rocky, clay-colored mountain lying opposite the city on the right bank of the Volga".


            Geographical names of the world: Toponymic dictionary. - M: AST. Pospelov E.M. 2001 .:
            "Saratov is a city, a c. Saratov region. Founded in 1590 as a fortress city of Saratov. The name is associated with its position on the high avenue of the Volga bank, surrounded by mountains, the most noticeable of which was distinguished by the yellowness of its slopes. Among the local Turkic-speaking population it was known as Sarytau - 'yellow mountain' (Turk, sary 'yellow', may 'mountain') The name of the mountain was extended to the surrounding area and later adopted in a somewhat distorted form for the name of the city of Saratov. The opinion is also known that the city was founded on the low-lying left bank and therefore the 'mountain' etymology should be rejected, but the latest data do not support this point of view."
            1. -2
              27 March 2013 14: 05
              Well, the opinion of the political officer is the only true and final
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                27 March 2013 20: 18
                Vova, did you even bother to read the information?
        2. Lignitz
          +2
          27 March 2013 06: 01
          the word Sarah in the Kazakh language has two meanings: Yellow and Gold
        3. -2
          27 March 2013 15: 33
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          By the way, Saratov is from "Sara tau" ("Yellow mountains / hills").

          And in Saransk and Sarov what yellow was found?
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            27 March 2013 20: 20
            and that the Turks lived in Saransk and Sarov? these are the Mordovian lands. where does the word "sary"?
            1. 0
              27 March 2013 21: 19
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              But what did the Turks live in Saransk and Sarov?

              Sound series of the Russian language ZS
            2. -2
              27 March 2013 21: 20
              And what does Sarai have to do with Saratov?
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                27 March 2013 21: 44
                because before the arrival of the Russians, only Turks lived there.
                1. 0
                  27 March 2013 23: 05
                  Or Bulgars?
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2013 23: 08
                    well, for the sake of truth, these are Turkic-speaking tribes, undoubtedly the Turks and Slavs from ancient times lived side by side, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not very
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 00: 02
                    different Turks lived. Bulgars, by the way, are also Türks, if you do not remember.
    3. +9
      26 March 2013 19: 34
      Quote: ak orda
      Russians in Russia and Russians in Kazakhstan - do not succumb to such provocations

      I was born in the Kazakh SSR in the village of Sandyktav, my parents took me to Kuzbass, at 3 months. Grew up in Siberia. Often traveled to Zerenda with his grandfather and grandmother. Now they are in the Kazakh land, I have a tribe, an uncle, and cousins. The names of Kokchetav, Idabul for me sound like a song about the Motherland. Provocations of all this.
      1. ak orda
        +3
        26 March 2013 19: 38
        Hello! Nice to hear that smile
        1. +1
          26 March 2013 20: 13
          Quote: ak orda
          Hello! Nice to hear that

          Goodnight good
  21. +8
    26 March 2013 18: 42
    The Russian search association "Panther's Trail" has discovered that the burial place of the Hero of the Soviet Union, sniper Aliya Moldagulova in the Pskov region is empty, the portal Lenta.kz reports.

    This became known after the search engines began to study archival military documents. It turned out that the Hero of the Soviet Union and hundreds of other Kazakhs who fought for the liberation of Pskov still rest in the forest. "Panther's Trail" in the summer of 2013 prepares an expedition to the place where Aliya Moldagulova is actually buried. Now there are impenetrable forests and swamps. A delegation of the "Combat Brotherhood" public fund from Almaty also joined the Russians and flew to Pskov.

    Alia Moldagulova came to the front in August 1943. She fought as part of the 54th Rifle Brigade of the 22nd Army of the 2nd Baltic Front. On the account of Moldagulova there were 78 killed fascists. She was mortally wounded and died in battle on January 14, 1944 north of the city of Novosokolniki. On June 4, 1944, Corporal Aliya Moldagulova was posthumously awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/zahoronenie-alii-moldagulovoy-okazalos-pust
    yim-230788 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz
    1. ak orda
      +6
      26 March 2013 18: 47
      Thank you, swamps for the information!
  22. nnnnnn
    +3
    26 March 2013 19: 20
    the author go for a walk, the information is old, the inscription as it was and will remain, this has already been written and talked about in the news. The administration of the site, I understand where you get the money from, but you work dirty, so the political situation and public opinion inside the country are not checked. And sometimes monitor the Internet, otherwise it turns out that you have not a website, but a garbage dump, stupid copy-paste from other sites and plagiarism, they started well. Good for the Beinensons In Russia, they grind on radio and TV and teach Russians how to "equip Russia."
  23. +5
    26 March 2013 19: 36
    The only thing that I probably liked about the article was about:
    Great Kazakhstan!!! laughing smiled ..
    GY.: For the Great Kazakhstan ... wassat
    1. ak orda
      +6
      26 March 2013 19: 50
      Well, why so? It can be seen that the article is provocative. Yes, my country is not great and mighty like Russia, but I am sure that a bright future awaits us, without wars, a feud, that we will live peacefully and coexist with our allies.
  24. 120352
    0
    26 March 2013 19: 53
    And I had no doubts about this "friendship" with Kazakhstan, especially after my relatives were forced out of there for being Russian.
    1. ak orda
      +6
      26 March 2013 20: 05
      It can’t be like that, or you are transmitting or distorting the situation incorrectly or .... maybe you are telling the truth. If this is true, then of course it is necessary to bring people to justice. But remember the story about Shanyrak, Bakai - there women and old people, children were evicted from their homes by corrupt bureaucrats, their homes were demolished by bulldozers. Special forces were brought. but of course I’m writing not in order to justify myself, but in order for you to know that it was not we, the Kazakhs of your relatives, who were evicted, but the bureaucrats.
      about friendship - you should not have mentioned it in quotation marks, remember how the 90th Nazarbayev tried with all his might to preserve the alliance, and the fact that recently news about the cooperation of the Turkic states has been heard is normal, because we are part of the Turkic civilization, like Russia, for example, Slavic. It is important to think about what unites us, and not what separates us.
      1. +3
        26 March 2013 21: 22
        Quote: ak orda
        It’s important to think about what unites us,

        We are united by the past .....
        And it is necessary that the future unites.
        We need a general idea, but it doesn’t exist, money is not a motive, but a reason for welding.
        1. ak orda
          +2
          26 March 2013 21: 57
          I didn't mean money. There is a common idea - this is the Eurasian Union. This is the CSTO. This is the Customs Union. Now is the era of globalization, the West wants to surround Russia around the entire perimeter with unfriendly and unstable states, the West wants internal problems to spread to you. The Anaconda strategy is what is happening around Russia now. Remember how the anaconda attacks - it grasps, slowly but surely swallows it, the victim cannot escape. In the west of Russia there are unfriendly Baltic countries, Ukraine is unstable, the Caucasus region is Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan, Georgia, Azerbaijan, the Far East is Japan, unstable neighbors like the DPRK, ambitious China. Do you feel how Russia is like an anaconda, start to choke?
          1. -3
            27 March 2013 05: 55
            that's right, but only you personally need to understand one simple thing: Russia is a subcontinent with completely and absolutely self-sufficient resources and with the POSSIBILITY, within a MAXIMUM of 40 minutes, to wipe out absolutely any army and country from the face of the Earth, and our military doctrine spelled out the right of a preventive strike in if these "anaconda embraces" become too intrusive.
            Therefore, it is first of all for your country to think about anacondas and not for us, it’s quite nice for us now to live without you: I have my own small business, and I also work on a shift - enough to raise and properly educate children and travel once a year where is the thread to the warm seas, once a year because a lot of business unfortunately is not a renewable resource.
  25. +1
    26 March 2013 20: 30
    Your relatives escaped from a sinking ship for a better life, and now they say they kicked out. Everyone calmly sold it and left quietly, they say there’s nothing to do, everything will fall apart, and we will live as sheikhs in Russia. Now Kazakhstan is watching the most successful CIS and the toad takes. And at the expense of monuments we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you.
    1. +1
      26 March 2013 20: 43
      Kazakhstan is the most successful in the CIS and the toad takes

      From this place more, please.
      1. +2
        27 March 2013 16: 50
        Quote: Iraclius
        From this place more, please.

        You're welcome hi For example, Roy MEDVEDEV:
        “I have accumulated a lot of materials on the CIS, which I have been collecting for ten years. When I began to look through and analyze them, I discovered that of all the CIS countries, Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia had achieved the greatest success.
        Russian press ignores Kazakhstan’s successes - by many indicators of a market economy, by the stability of the political situation ... You did not have such a decline as in Russia in 1994 — 1996 ... In addition, Kazakhstan did not experience political crises that we had in 1993 and 1996 ... There are many reasons, and I am analyzing them now. It just surprised me that the Russian press is silent about the fact that in a number of CIS republics the situation is much better and we have something to learn from them ...

        http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.kazpravda.kz/rus
        /obshtestvo/roj_medvedev_uspehi_kazahstana_menja_udivili.html
    2. 0
      26 March 2013 21: 24
      Quote: Kazbek
      And at the expense of monuments we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you.

      And it’s worth it ....... Nobody is ready to demolish.
    3. +3
      26 March 2013 22: 49
      Quote: Kazbek
      we even have monuments to Lenin, unlike you
      Here it is, unfinished, standing
      about the mausoleum on Red Square, believe without a photo?
  26. +7
    26 March 2013 21: 27
    I think that the West is trying to drive a wedge between Kazakhstan and Russia, because among the neighbors the closest allies of Russia are Kazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia. In the Baltic countries, the West managed to quarrel. Such articles are a kind of provocation, assessment of the reaction or probing of the soil. We need to think deeper, read between the lines.
  27. +2
    26 March 2013 22: 31
    Kazakhstan, the sovereign state has the right to decide what to write there, but do not forget that it is our common memory, you can erect a new monument, but why change what was done by our grandfathers? they have done a lot for us so that we live in peace, but something doesn’t work out for us
  28. 0
    26 March 2013 22: 42
    planned to replace the inscription with one of the others
    And there pigeon fun-monuments to pledge came
  29. Earthman
    +1
    27 March 2013 00: 15
    Quote: max73
    there are too many trolls ... on the other hand, since the trolls are drawn for "review", this is an indicator of the importance and necessity of this resource

    Here you are right. This project, Military Review, has decent chances of becoming a serious and convenient observer, by inviting a couple of serious journalists the site may even get away from the current articles by unprofessional moderators. It is worth noting that there are good moderators, they are also people and such as Ascetic, who lived in different countries, know the culture and relations of peoples firsthand.

    An indicator of the movement of society in a normal and adequate direction has always been and will always be professional trolls.
    For example, Central Asian trolls like: Omar Khayyam, Khoja Nassredin, Aldar Kose, or Russian Pushkin, Tolstoy, all of them for their time are trolls who put the church in its place, or rather the patriarchs
    1. +3
      27 March 2013 00: 37
      Quote: Earthman
      a couple of serious journalists the site can generally get away from the current articles of unprofessional moderators
      The representatives of the most ancient profession are not needed here for nothing. A professional journalist can equally well cover any event with a + sign and right there -. They made lies by their work. So let there be lay people, lies and enough in the media
      Yes, and many will read them?
      1. Earthman
        0
        27 March 2013 23: 24
        Quote: Denis
        The representatives of the most ancient profession are not needed here for nothing. A professional journalist can equally well cover any event with a + sign and right there -. They made lies by their work. So let there be lay people, lies and enough in the media
        Yes, and many will read them?

        by professional, I mean good faith
  30. implacable
    +4
    27 March 2013 03: 44
    It is necessary to respect the right of the Kazakhs to name the streets of their cities at their discretion, but this is such a trifle in general, names, etc., it is important to understand the other thing, that to maintain identity in the conditions of the global imposition of multiculturalism, for such a not very large people like Kazakhs, it is only possible subject to the construction of a national state, naturally without prejudice to the rights of other ethnic groups in Kazakhstan.
    ps I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian and my son is half Russian, everyone writes)
    1. -4
      27 March 2013 06: 20
      Nobody encroached on their right to call the streets of their cities. The only thing is that cities in Kazakhstan were 95% built and founded by Russians (Russian-speaking), and if you ignore this fact, you are either a troll or a very narrow-minded person.
      1. 0
        27 March 2013 21: 46
        Quote: Smoke
        Nobody encroached on their right to call the streets of their cities. The only thing is that cities in Kazakhstan were 95% built and founded by Russians (Russian-speaking), and if you ignore this fact, you are either a troll or a very narrow-minded person.

        Well, what about then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad or Tsaritsyn, Stalingrad, Volgograd. So someone can change, but someone can not. Double standards? Or the main thing is that they are named in Russian.
        1. +3
          27 March 2013 22: 23
          Quote: Semurg
          as then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad
          Here at least do not rave. The native name was returned, in the 90th the referendum was about
      2. Marek Rozny
        +1
        27 March 2013 21: 58
        And did Kaliningrad and Astrakhan also establish the Russians? Can we return the names of Koenigsberg and Haji-Tarkhan to them?
        1. +1
          27 March 2013 22: 55
          perhaps it will be renamed if the KO again becomes East Prussia, but for now it is the region of the Russian Federation ...
          1. Earthman
            0
            27 March 2013 23: 12
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            perhaps it will be renamed if the KO becomes East Prussia again, but for now it is the region of the Russian Federation.

            Are you by any chance a neo-Imperial? sorry for the question
            1. -3
              27 March 2013 23: 17
              don't jerk
          2. Marek Rozny
            +1
            28 March 2013 00: 04
            then, according to your logic, what right do you have to interfere with the names on the territory of Kazakhstan? What have we become part of the Russian Federation?
    2. +1
      27 March 2013 06: 40
      Quote: Relentless

      It is necessary to respect the right of Kazakhs to name the streets of their cities at their discretion
      Not about the same conversation. Let them call, but the inscription on the monument should not be edited
      So you can slide down before editing the story
      1. Marek Rozny
        +4
        27 March 2013 11: 50
        no one is going to erase Klochkov’s phrase in the KZ. it zhurnalyugi invented a sensation out of the blue.
        in fact, just one of the veterans wanted to add a phrase about heroes-Kazakhs in addition to the existing inscriptions, but the city administration did not even begin to discuss this issue. all. the topic is closed. but the media-shniks need to inflate the topic to a global scale. blessing there are always people who "lead" to delusional fabrications.
        1. +4
          27 March 2013 18: 11
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Schnick media need to inflate the topic to a global scale. blessing there are always people who "lead" to delusional fabrications.
          If so (see about HZ), then they succeeded.
      2. -1
        27 March 2013 21: 37
        Quote: Denis
        So you can slide down before editing the story

        already rolled
    3. Marek Rozny
      0
      27 March 2013 11: 45
      Quote: Relentless
      ps I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian

      and I have Ukrainian)
      1. Beck
        +1
        27 March 2013 12: 02
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Quote: inexorable. I will not accept accusations of nationalism and Russophobia, since I am married to a Russian. Marek - I have - Ukrainian)


        Well, then I'm in a bunch. My wife is a cross between a Kazakh and a Ukrainian.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          27 March 2013 12: 38
          good Ukrainian women are Slavic feminine beauty plus "Mongolian" cheekbones. Ukrainian women are the most beautiful women in the world. and a Ukrainian woman preparing rich borscht is a divine picture from which I instantly calm down and become fluffy))))
        2. Gur
          0
          April 1 2013 13: 23
          Well, why are you so "cross", probably an avid dog breeder? Not good like that ..
    4. 0
      27 March 2013 21: 36
      Quote: Relentless
      building a national state, of course, without prejudice to the rights of other ethnic groups in Kazakhstan.

      How's that?
  31. implacable
    +1
    27 March 2013 04: 38
    author of the article Beinenson, well, everything is clear.
  32. -1
    27 March 2013 05: 37
    got acquainted. I condemn in general ANY interference in the memorials of the generation of WINNERS. WINNERS did not look who of them there was by nation, Russian Kazakh or the Baltic states (yes, not all the Balts in the WaffenSS fought against us).
    And in this case, I just want to note the fact that modern generations (grandchildren and great-grandchildren of WINNERS) have simply sold and betrayed the CASE of their ancestors. Try to tell the victorious Kazakh (for example, the same Moldagulova. If she was alive now) that the Russians are scoundrels and colonialists, that the Russians poisoned and starved the Kazakhs - GREAT TURKS TO BLAT !!! Yes, there, Moldagulova herself would have arrested VILIKAVA TURK and sent to the direction of the Solar City to mine gold and bring real benefits to the country.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +5
      27 March 2013 12: 02
      Smoke, your reaction is not clear at all. Have you carefully read the topic? Nobody encroached on Klochkov’s inscription.
      2) Kazakhs did not "sell" anything. the memory of the Second World War is honored in our country more than in Russia.
      3) do not turn it over - Kazakhs do not call Russian villains. and re-read about SOVIET materials on the history of the Kazakh SSR, Uzbek SSR, Kyrgyz SSR, TurkmenSSR, TajSSR about colonization. It is openly written everywhere that tsarist Russia pursued a COLONIAL policy in the region with all the consequences, and that it oppressed the local population. The Kazakhs did not add anything new to this section; in fact, the same is written as in the textbooks of the Soviet period.
      Regarding the famine, the culprit is the first leader of Kazakhstan, Goloshchekin, who pursued an idiotic cannibalistic policy here (for the famine he was then shot on Stalin's orders). Nobody blames the Russian people, they blame the Soviet government for the catastrophe that happened. At the same time, the Kazakhs are not silent about the advantages of Soviet power in other areas. Another thing is that hysteria in the Russian media snatches out only individual phrases and presents the Russians with nonsense taken out of context, exposing the Kazakhs in a nationalist form. You, for example, easily fall for such articles. They will point a finger at someone and say: "Atu him!", And you are happy to show your patriotism without thinking about the situation.
  33. +2
    27 March 2013 06: 26
    And I was really indignant at Shaw. The monument was repaired FOUR years ago. Replaced real granite with modern tiles. and now, after several years, re-repair again!
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      27 March 2013 12: 21
      The ensemble was built in 1975. Since then, they have never carried out repairs, only in 2005 did partial repairs. And only last year did capital repairs.
      By the way, they did quite normally.
      1. Gur
        0
        April 1 2013 13: 28
        I didn’t notice anything capital, not yesterday, not today, the monument was really closed for access since last fall, it’s cut down pine trees from the capital, I don’t see anything like that, along the pine trees in front of the monument, an avenue of glory was cut down and planted with new fir trees, in some places there are no steles while the tablets are standing.
  34. +3
    27 March 2013 09: 18
    Quote: erased
    The neighbors have only one tendency - either to deny the Great Patriotic War and consider it evil (the Baltic states, Georgia), or to stick out the feats of their own (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, etc.)

    We, the Kazakhs, are proud of our common victory of the Soviet people and separately (in the sense of additional) the contribution of the Kazakhs to it, the more we have something to be proud of. What's bad about it? And nobody sticks out anything.
    1. Gur
      -1
      April 1 2013 13: 35
      How interesting it is, we are proud of the joint Soviet victory, but the rest of the Soviet is to blame for the Russians, or you can only be proud of the fact that, as I put it above, "this we can trump" (sorry for not quoting exactly)
  35. +4
    27 March 2013 09: 31
    95% say that we should now consult with you all your life about how to live and what to do. We didn’t howl, they threw us in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, do what you want, live whatever you want, and now we are told how to call us the streets. We have the streets of Taran and there are Leonid Beda’s streets, and no one is going to remake monuments and they never speak badly about WWII and don’t walk the streets with swastikas like in some countries.
  36. +2
    27 March 2013 15: 04
    Quote: Kazbek
    .We have the streets of Taran and the streets of Leonid Beda,

    Timiryazev, Gagarin, Gogol, Pushkin, Lugansk - these are just a few modern street names in Almaty. Russian names of small streets do not count.
    1. 0
      27 March 2013 16: 39
      but there is such
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        27 March 2013 20: 49
        1) If they were "Kazakh nationalists", they would not have touched Kanash Kamzin Street.
        2) And should there be Kutuzov street in Kazakhstan? Are there streets in Russia in honor of the commanders Subudai, Jebe, Kabanbai, Bogembai and others? Is Kutuzov somehow connected with Kazakhstan, the Kazakhs, at least indirectly? Why should Kazakhs honor Kutuzov’s memory? I understand that in Russia they are proud of him; he has done a lot for Russia, and what about Kazakhstan? That we do not have our own Russians, after whom we can name the streets?
        3) The writer Korolenko is also an abstract surname for Kazakhs. This name does not cause us any emotions. He did nothing for the benefit of Kazakhstan or for the development of relations between Kazakhs and Russians. So why should we read it? Well, if he were the same amazing author as Pushkin or Lermontov (whose names are respected by the Kazakhs), but even in Russia people will not immediately remember what Korolenko wrote.

        ps what kind of idiots on the video - I have no idea. the first guy at the beginning of the video has some kind of suspicious accent.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          27 March 2013 20: 54
          and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?
          1. -3
            27 March 2013 21: 10
            your pan-Turkism is already tired.
            Well, if on the topic, then let's specifically which, where, when, what replaced
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              27 March 2013 21: 31
              Where are you, wonderful person, who saw Pan-Turkism? maybe, given your Ukrainian surname and "Russian grief", in this case, I can call you a Pan-Slavist and put it in a supposedly negative sense?
              Well, the fact that you have no idea about the massive renaming of non-Russian names in Russia is understandable. if he knew the history of his country, then he could adequately perceive the history of neighbors. and so it turns out - I have not learned Kazakh history, but I have not yet managed to learn Russian history. therefore porridge in the head.
              and now the answer to the question:
              After the conquest of Crimea by Russia in 1783, the process of renaming the Turkic names began "in order to consolidate Russian rule in the newly annexed region, it was necessary to settle it with purely Russian people", as the newspapers then wrote. Then Adzhibey became Odessa, Akmechet - Simferopol, Kezlev - Evpatoria, Kefe - Feodosia, Aktiyar - Sevastopol, etc.
              And after the remnants of the Turkic population were expelled from there in 1944, an almost complete "cleanup" took place. On December 14, 1944, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR renamed 621 districts and 8 settlements from 11 regional centers by decree No. 11/26, and by decree No. 619/3 dated August 21, 1945, 327 more villages, by decree No. 745/3 dated May 18, 1948 - by the fourth anniversary of the eviction of the Crimean Tatars - 1062 more villages were renamed. 1400 original historical names of cities and villages were erased from the map of Crimea. More than 1000 altered hydronyms, names of mountains, landscape monuments, objects should also be attached to them.
              And there are hundreds and hundreds of such examples in Russia. Let me remind you that the historical name of Volgograd / Stalingrad mentioned in this topic is Tsaritsyn, which is derived from the Turkic "Sary su" ("Yellow waters"; the local Turkic dialect is ts-eket and the name sounded like "Tsary tsu"). And how many Kazakh names in Kazakhstan have undergone Russification - Kanisken - Ganyushkino, Burabay - Borovoe, Kyzylzhar - Petropavlovsk, Almaty - Alma-Ata, Zhambyl - Dzhambul, Shymkent - Chimkent, Akmola - Tselinograd, Karagandy - Karaganda, Zhayk - Ural - Ir , Esil - Ishim, Ile - Ili, Aktau - Shevchenko, Zharkent - Panfilov, etc.
              And you can also recall the decrees of 1948-1949 on renaming Finnish names in the Leningrad Region.
              And you can recall the renaming of German names in the Volga region.
              Vova, stop already making yourself a pioneer.
              1. -2
                27 March 2013 22: 38
                for the future, I will not answer your boorish posts, you may not respect me, this is your right, but please be respectful of decency
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  27 March 2013 23: 18
                  you started to be rude a couple of months ago. you do it better than answering questions. so what hello is the answer. nothing to blame on the mirror.
                  1. -3
                    27 March 2013 23: 26
                    there was plenty of answers to another question, that they contradict your postulates, and accordingly you are not accepted, you allow yourself rudeness even when they speak politely to you.

                    any example that contradicts your point of view you call false or invented, in connection with which the dispute with you is useless
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      28 March 2013 00: 09
                      Vova, don't talk to me hypocritically. Do you play in public trying to pretend to be an intellectual trying to reason with a savage? You openly pour insults and wonder why I refuse to speak with you on "you". Do you really naively do not understand the reason or is it a one-man theater?

                      I write all my messages with facts. and you even manage to call the Saratov ethnographers and encyclopedic data "the words of a political instructor" because you cannot object. that's why it's rotten.
                      1. Yarbay
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 00: 15
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        You really naively do not understand the reason, or is it one theater

                        Dear Marek!
                        I also know Vladimir well and his shortcomings in communication, as well as yours !!
                        It seems to me that we may not agree with each other, but we must try not to lose our face !!
                        It’s not necessary to speak to you, it’s enough to be tolerant of each other!
                        I understand it hard, but we didn’t come to fight here !!
                  2. Yarbay
                    +2
                    27 March 2013 23: 38
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    you started to be rude a couple of months ago. you do it better than answering questions. so what hello is the answer. nothing to blame on the mirror.

                    You don’t be offended, but often you are rude to your interlocutors unnoticed by this and are harsh !!
                    Here it’s not chantrap who mostly talks to you, and not young people from society * raise fires * and people at least with sufficient life experience, keep this in mind!
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +3
                      28 March 2013 00: 43
                      there are a sufficient number of people who appeal to me and whom I respect, even if I disagree with them on some issue. but besides them, there are also subjects like smouk and vasilenko, whom I cannot respect in any way, and I do not hide it. and I don’t care what their "life experience" is - one bawls about teaching Kazakhs to urinate, the other is talking nonsense about "Kazakh oppression" and "Russian refugees."
              2. +2
                28 March 2013 01: 47
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                1400 original historical names of cities and villages were erased from the map of Crimea. More than 1000 altered hydronyms, names of mountains, landscape monuments, objects should also be attached to them.


                Man and nothing xnj Theodosius (given by God). It was founded in the VI century. BC e. Two centuries later, it became part of the Bosporus Kingdom, whose culture gradually acquired barbaric features. The last mention of Theodosius as a large shopping center dates back to 306 AD. e. The ancient city was blocked by medieval Kaffa, which the Turks called Kefe. After the annexation of Crimea to Russia, Feodosia, the original name was returned
                few people know that in the place of Simferopol from the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century BC was the capital of the Scythian state is Naples. In the 15th century, on the site of the city was the Tatar settlement Ak-Mosque, on the site of which in 1784 Simferopol (city of good) was founded. the name of the city is given by the rescript of Catherine II in February 1784,
                Evpatoria, from the Greek "noble", a city near the bay and salt lakes arose at the turn of the VI-V centuries BC. e., when the ancient Greeks founded Kerkinitida.
                Well, perhaps I agree with Hadzhibey-Odessa. , Well, Sevastopol is the oldest Chersonesos-Tauride with almost a biblical history (Andrew the First-Called). In 861, in Chersonesos, on the way to Khazaria, Saint Cyril (Constantine), gained the relics of Saint Clement. Here he found the alphabet (Cyrillic)[to name the village of Akhtiyar, which was located in a bay near the ruins of an ancient Chersonesos .. It’s already no way .. So the score of cities 1-4 is not in your favor.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  28 March 2013 11: 11
                  I do not argue at all about the Greek and other roots of the Crimean cities. yes, the Turkic-speaking people having seized this land, many names changed. but the tsarina of Russia, having captured Crimea (which had never been Slavic and had no Russian names there), herself erased the superimposed Turkic names and new ones. the Russians don’t notice this, and they are ready to pour a slop tank into a neighboring garden.
                  By the way, in the Crimea there were us. points in honor of both my family and in honor of the family of my mother. Now the names are completely Russian.

                  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1

                  % 8F:% D0% A1% D1% 91% D0% BB% D0% B0_% D0% 9A% D1% 80% D1% 8B% D0% BC% D0% B0 are the villages of Crimea. Click and see that under each Slavic name is hidden the original Turkic (less often German or some other).

                  Z.Y. Will the rest of our points count towards 4: 1?
              3. Beck
                +2
                28 March 2013 17: 02
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Then Adzhibey became Odessa, Akmechet - Simferopol, Kezlev - Evpatoria, Kefe - Feodosia, Aktiyar - Sevastopol, etc.


                After the damn events of 1969, at the beginning of the 70s, all Korean and Chinese place names and village names were replaced by Russian ones. I’m not going to climb sites, anyone who wants to find it myself. But for sure. The district center Iman from which I served 10 kilometers was renamed Dalnorechensk. In the 80s I came across a map of Primorye and I did not find my Iman. I found out for a long time until knowledgeable people showed me at Dalnorechensk.
            2. Yarbay
              +1
              27 March 2013 23: 34
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              your pan-Turkism is already tired.

              I just didn’t see Pan-Turkism !!
              Just a few years ago, in Moscow, residents of one of the districts did not want a bust of Heydar Aliyev to be put on their street, what now are the Russian enemies of Azerbaijanis?
              1. -3
                27 March 2013 23: 37
                I’m just analyzing not only this branch, we can specifically talk about pan-Turkism, although here it is enough for him.

                By the way, what does the bust of your fellow countryman have to do with it ?!
                1. Yarbay
                  +2
                  27 March 2013 23: 42
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

                  I’m just analyzing not only this branch, we can specifically talk about pan-Turkism, although here it is enough for him.

                  By the way, where does the bust of your countryman

                  I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!
                  As for the bust, as I understand it, it was about renaming streets, why can't the street be named after Kutuzov?
                  About the inscription on the monument!
                  1. +1
                    27 March 2013 23: 50
                    the thing is that in the first place the street already has the name of Kutuzov, and whether the residents of the city like it or not, they need to ask not only the Kazakhs, but also other nationalities, including Russians, which make up 20 percent.
                    about pan-Turkism, Marek does not praise the Kazakhs, namely the Türks, the Slavs could communicate with the other world exclusively through the Türks, all the toponymy is borrowed from the Turkic languages, etc.
                    1. Yarbay
                      +1
                      27 March 2013 23: 56
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      the thing is that in the first place the street already has the name of Kutuzov, and whether the residents of the city like it or not, they need to ask not only the Kazakhs, but also other nationalities, including Russians, which make up 20 percent.


                      Here you are wrong !!!
                      Just ask those people who live on this street !!
                      We also renamed many streets, I do not see tragedy in this !!
                      Why do I need Shaumyan Street, which turned out to be not shot, but died in India, or Amiryanov Street, whose coffins were empty when 26 Baku kammisars were re-buried !! Why do I need 26 Baku messengers street when they directly participated in the massacre on March 31, 1918 in Baku! ?
                      You are wrong in that!
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      about pan-Turkism, Marek does not praise the Kazakhs, namely the Türks, the Slavs could communicate with the other world exclusively through the Türks, all the toponymy is borrowed from the Turkic languages, etc.

                      I am a Turk and read Marek, I did not see this in his comments !!
                      Give examples !!
                      1. 0
                        28 March 2013 00: 03
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Just ask those people who live on this street !!

                        I absolutely agree, but all and not on a national basis, have you watched the video about this "renaming"?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Give examples !!

                        so I gave you almost quotes, I'm sorry, but now I will not search for it with all due respect in the site archives
                      2. Yarbay
                        0
                        28 March 2013 00: 07
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I absolutely agree, but all and not on a national basis, have you watched the video about this "renaming"?

                        No video watched!
                      3. 0
                        28 March 2013 00: 11
                        it is attached below to one of my posts
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      -2
                      28 March 2013 00: 48
                      why not name Kutuzov Street in honor of Clausewitz or Guderian? so what? Germans, we also have enough lives. they also want to see their field marshals on the streets of Kazakhstan.
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    28 March 2013 00: 45
                    how is my "nationalism" expressed? have I insulted other people?
                    1. Yarbay
                      +4
                      28 March 2013 01: 54
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      how is my "nationalism" expressed? have I insulted other people?

                      I saw how you belittled other peoples, raising your own, but not in this thread !!
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        28 March 2013 08: 53
                        saying that the Uzbeks do not know how to fight? all Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs and Uzbeks have already scolded me in a personal mail for having offended them. ok, try not to touch this topic anymore.
                      2. Yarbay
                        -1
                        28 March 2013 12: 38
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        saying that the Uzbeks do not know how to fight? all Azerbaijanis, Kazakhs and Uzbeks have already scolded me in a personal mail for having offended them. ok, try not to touch this topic anymore.

                        Not all))))
                        I did not write to you in the face, if I thought it was necessary, I wrote to you in the topics !!
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        30 March 2013 14: 20
                        Yarbai, don’t torture me, just tell me exactly what you mean. Where did you write to me about the nationalism allowed by me ???
                      4. Yarbay
                        0
                        30 March 2013 15: 41
                        Quote: Marek Rozny

                        Yarbai, don’t torture me, just tell me exactly what you mean. Where did you write to me about the nationalism allowed by me ???
                        do not suffer dear !!
                        In that topic, I compared you not to your advantage with your fellow countryman and my brother Dauren!
                        there was no question of nationalism, I am normal about this!
                        It’s just that you downplayed another people there!
                        Let's forget it!
                      5. +1
                        28 March 2013 15: 26
                        I saw how you belittled other nations, raising your

                        If you proceed from the indicated, it turns out that on this site write only Natsik and shoviki?)))))
                        There is not a single person who would not in one way or another elevate his people, while simultaneously not belittling others.
                      6. Yarbay
                        0
                        29 March 2013 00: 09
                        [quote = romb]
                        If you proceed from the indicated, it turns out that on this site write only Natsik and shoviki?))))) [/ Quote]
                        [quote = romb]
                        How did you come to this conclusion?))))
                        I turned to a specific person !!
                        As far as I know in Russian, the word You do not always mean the plural !!
                        ))
                      7. 0
                        29 March 2013 09: 33
                        the fact is that this is the favorite word of Kazakh national patrons, in order to become a "showman" you don't need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express the opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
                      8. 0
                        29 March 2013 09: 33
                        the fact is that this is the favorite word of Kazakh national patrons, in order to become a "showman" you don't need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express the opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
                      9. -2
                        29 March 2013 09: 40
                        the fact is that this is the favorite word of Kazakh national patrons, in order to become a "showman" you don't need to be a chauvinist, the main thing is to express the opinion that Russians in Kazakhstan have their own opinion
                      10. +1
                        29 March 2013 11: 26
                        How did you come to this conclusion?))))

                        From your comments:
                        I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!


                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        how is my "nationalism" expressed?

                        The following is an answer in which you indicate the signs of this phenomenon:
                        I saw how you belittled other nations, exalting yours,

                        I turned to a specific person !!

                        And of course, you wanted to indicate to a specific person that he is a nationalist?))) Why should we generalize this way if each subject writing here falls under these signs?
                        As far as I know in Russian, the word you do not always mean the plural !!))

                        According to the existing requirements of office work, when addressing a respected person, the addressee could use pronouns with a capital letter. Even now, when sending correspondence (according to the unspoken rules of business circulation), it is customary to comply with these requirements.
                      11. Yarbay
                        0
                        30 March 2013 14: 08
                        Quote: romb
                        From your comments:


                        Please give an example or I will assume that you do not understand what you are reading and do not know what you are talking about !!!
                        Quote: romb
                        And of course, you wanted to indicate to a specific person that he is a nationalist?)))


                        You will read the whole dialogue, then you can understand what I wanted to say to a particular person !!
                        Read the comments carefully)))))))
                        Quote: romb
                        Ah, got it

                        Something I doubt that you understand))))
                        Quote: romb
                        According to the existing requirements of office work, when addressing a respected person, the addressee could use pronouns with a capital letter

                        Well?))))
                        Why then did you get the idea that I consider all Natsik and Sshovikami ???
                        and nationalism with Nazism (Natsik)) different things young man)))
                      12. +1
                        30 March 2013 18: 39
                        Please give an example or I will assume that you do not understand what you are reading and do not know what you are talking about !!!

                        Dear Alibek, you force me to repeat myself.))) Well, what can you do for a good person !!!
                        Here you are, Alibek, now asking a question to which I have already given an example, by the way, from your own comments.
                        In particular, you pointed to the undeniable presence of nationalism in Marek’s comments:
                        I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism,there is nationalism

                        Further, Marek asks him to explain to him what his nationalism is expressed in. What did you bring as an example signs of the above phenomenon, such as:
                        You belittled other nations, raising theirbut not in this thread !!

                        So I asked you if you had simplified the situation too much by hastening to put a certain label on the person, because in this case, any of us who write on this site fall under the criteria specified in the commentary.
                      13. Yarbay
                        0
                        30 March 2013 19: 36
                        Quote: romb

                        So I asked you if you had simplified the situation too much by hastening to put a certain label on a person


                        no dear You have accused me that my words apply to everyone !!
                        and we accept nationalism and Natsik ?? Do you understand the difference ??
                        And why did you decide that all the writers on this site fall under this criterion ??
                        I think a young man. You hurried with conclusions and they are completely not logical!
                        Quote: romb
                        In particular, you pointed out the indisputable presence of nationalism in the comments of Marek
                        that's just the point, I talked about Marek's comments and only him !!
                        And here the rest of the site users and I repeat in healthy nationalism I don’t see anything bad if other people are not belittling!
                        And I think Marek is not a stupid person and understood what I mean and for what reason he wrote !!
                        with respect!
                      14. 0
                        31 March 2013 00: 52
                        Dear Alibek, I didn’t even have to blame you for anything and especially insult you in any way! I say this absolutely sincerely, without false goodwill. Simply, honestly, I was struck by a proposal in which the emphasis was placed on the nationalism of just my countryman. At the same time, I personally think that after the incoherent emotional mud poured out by individual Russian commentators, the form in which Marek expresses his thoughts about interethnic relations is, if not an indicator of tolerance, then more correct in essence for sure.
                        and we accept nationalism and Natsik ??

                        The confusion was due to a somewhat incorrect interpretation of the word. In this case, by the word "nazik" I mean a nationalist and not a national socialist (Nazi) - a Nazi, a fascist .....)))
                        Respectfully!!!
                  3. 0
                    28 March 2013 11: 22
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I also analyzed the comments of our colleague, they do not have pan-Turkism, there is nationalism !!

                    I agree, Alibek. I also watch, sometimes I get upset.
                    It smells .....
                    1. +1
                      28 March 2013 15: 29
                      Yes, and you yourself, obviously do not smell like roses .........)))))
                    2. 0
                      29 March 2013 23: 20
                      Not well, Marek sometimes, of course, "carries" laughing
                      But what smells like from you and especially Vasilenko .. wassat
                      1. -3
                        29 March 2013 23: 31
                        but let’s specifically and with examples, otherwise somehow all one is idle talk, insults are darkness, and how to prove your case is so zilch
                      2. +1
                        30 March 2013 23: 56
                        as always, all arguments end with minuses, very reasonably
                      3. Yarbay
                        0
                        31 March 2013 07: 04
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

                        as always, all arguments end with minuses, very reasonably

                        I will put you a plus)))
                      4. Yarbay
                        0
                        30 March 2013 23: 45
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        But what smells of you and especially Vasilenko.

                        If you mean me, then I hope that the fragrance of love for my Motherland and hatred of animals in human form comes from me!
                      5. 0
                        30 March 2013 23: 57
                        it feels like you are running between Turkey and Azerbaijan
                      6. Yarbay
                        0
                        31 March 2013 07: 03
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        it feels like you are running between Turkey and Azerbaijan

                        Yes))))))))))
                        One foot on the border))))))))))))))))))))
                        I haven’t laughed so much for a long time)))
                2. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  28 March 2013 00: 11
                  of me a pan-Turkist - like a candy from guano. In my opinion, Vova, you don’t even understand what pan-Turkism is. you just think that this is some kind of abusive word that can be applied to any Turk-opponent))))) go read books. and then tell the Uzbek comrades on the site that I am a pan-Turkist, otherwise they don’t think so at all))))))
              2. +2
                28 March 2013 02: 28
                Quote: Yarbay
                Just a few years ago, in Moscow, residents of one of the districts did not want a bust of Heydar Aliyev to be put on their street, what now are the Russian enemies of Azerbaijanis?


                Mexico City decided to remove the bust of Aliyev. And at the cinema "Baku" on Usievich a pedestal without a bust, in my opinion, still stands, at least it was for one time. Then the monument was nevertheless erected in Ulyanovsk. There, too, the attitude towards him is ambiguous. If you follow Marek's logic, what is the connection between Aliyev and Ulyanovsk? or Mexico City? There is also a station in Buryatia, busts in Canada and Egypt. By the way, in Canada, in my opinion, they were also dismantled. In general, during the Soviet era, Aliyev was the leader of a "union" scale and in Moscow at least deserved a memorial plaque (there is one in St. Petersburg). And in Ulyanovsk, a monument, in my opinion, is nonsense.
                1. Yarbay
                  0
                  28 March 2013 02: 40
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  Mexico City decided to remove the bust of Aliyev. And at the cinema "Baku" on Usievich a pedestal without a bust, in my opinion, still stands, at least it was for one time. Then the monument was nevertheless erected in Ulyanovsk. There, too, the attitude towards him is ambiguous. If you follow Marek's logic, what is the connection between Aliyev and Ulyanovsk? or Mexico City? There is also a station in Buryatia, busts in Canada and Egypt. By the way, in Canada, in my opinion, they were also dismantled. In general, during the Soviet era, Aliyev was the leader of a "union" scale and in Moscow at least deserved a memorial plaque (there is one in St. Petersburg). And in Ulyanovsk, a monument, in my opinion, is nonsense.

                  In Mexico, I heard about Canada not!
                  I agree with you!
                  I heard about Ulyanovsk, is there a BAM passing by? I heard that somewhere there, too, a monument was erected for merits in construction !!
                  may not be accurate information!
                  But I wrote about the bust in the sense that I do not see in this a big tragedy for relations between peoples !!!
                  1. +2
                    28 March 2013 02: 47
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    In Mexico, I heard about Canada not!


                    In Canada, busts of Heydar Aliyev and Mehriban Aliyeva were dismantled about this by the Azadlig newspaper, Hasan Saftarov, Canadian representative of the Public Chamber (OP).
                    This step was taken by the authorities of the city of Niagara on the Lake as a result of a campaign conducted by the Azerbaijani opposition. In March of this year, they sent appropriate appeals to the city hall and responsible organizations of the city. The appeal, in particular, said that “today the whole world has declared a struggle against dictatorship. And the installation in Canada, which is one of the most democratic countries in the world, a bust for such a dictator as Heydar Aliyev, seriously damages the image of Canada. Aliyev is not convicted of anything from Saddam, Mubarek, Bin Ali, Gaddafi and Assad. Therefore, on behalf of the members of the Canadian representation of the OP, as well as hundreds of Azerbaijanis living in Canada, we ask that the busts of Heydar Aliyev and his daughter-in-law, Mehriban Aliyeva, be dismantled and returned to the Azerbaijani authorities. ”

                    link

                    Your renegades have tried, Ilham heard NGOs sponsored by him pressed like Putin, and here they are recouping.
                    1. Yarbay
                      +1
                      28 March 2013 03: 31
                      Quote: Ascetic
                      In Canada, busts of Heydar Aliyev and Mehriban Aliyeva were dismantled about this by the Azadlig newspaper, Hasan Saftarov, Canadian representative of the Public Chamber (OP).

                      honestly for me this is news !!
                      I did not hear that there were their busts !!!
                  2. +3
                    28 March 2013 02: 53
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    But I wrote about the bust in the sense that I do not see in this a big tragedy for relations between peoples !!!

                    In Moscow there is a monument to Ho Chi Minh and a whole square, why not Aliyev Heydar, because he was one of the leaders of the USSR, And he did not tarnish himself with any betrayal.
                  3. +3
                    28 March 2013 03: 05
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I heard about Ulyanovsk, is there a BAM passing there?

                    No to BAM from there as to Beijing with cancer. Bam in Ust-Kut begins. in Transbaikalia.
                    Many villages and stations of BAM were built by one republic, region or city. So, the Azerbaijanis built the stations of Angoya and Ulkan Kazakhs - New Charu;
                    1. Yarbay
                      -1
                      28 March 2013 03: 52
                      [quote = Ascetic] No to BAM from there as to Beijing with cancer. Bam in Ust-Kut begins. in Transbaikalia.
                      made laugh)))))))))))))))
                2. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  28 March 2013 08: 55
                  Ascetic, these monuments are from another opera - these are political gestures.
          2. -1
            27 March 2013 21: 44
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?

            I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              27 March 2013 22: 00
              Quote: There was a mammoth
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?


              Quote: There was a mammoth
              I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.


              Do you want to answer a question? And why did the Ryazanians rename the streets of Nekrasov and Koltsov? I’m not talking about Lenin.
              1. +1
                27 March 2013 23: 12
                Try at least go to Yandex. I'm in Ryazan. And do not tell me fairy tales. By the way, we use both names. Astrakhan-Lenin.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  28 March 2013 00: 13
                  officially, a street can have only one name. and the fact that locals out of habit can use the old name is the case in all cities of the world.

                  and by "fairy tale" did you mean the above text of your mayor's order? I did not give other information on Ryazan.
                  1. 0
                    28 March 2013 16: 25
                    This former mayor is under investigation. This is so note
                  2. 0
                    28 March 2013 16: 25
                    This former mayor is under investigation. This is so note
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      30 March 2013 13: 16
                      for renaming? if not - then what is this information for?
            2. 0
              27 March 2013 22: 07
              Quote: Was Mammoth
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              and about the renaming, I can ask a question - where did hundreds of Turkic names of the Crimea, the Urals, Siberia and Finnish in the Leningrad Region divide? Kazakhs renamed?

              I sometimes think that you still remained in the twelfth century. By thinking.

              AD or BC?
              1. 0
                27 March 2013 23: 14
                Quote: Semurg
                AD or BC?

                It’s easy to guess. Although maybe someone before the Scythians ..... wink
        2. -1
          27 March 2013 21: 05
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          If they were "Kazakh nationalists"

          what are you, it's Martians
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          The writer Korolenko is also an abstract surname for Kazakhs. This name does not cause us any emotions.

          I wonder who Abai is for Russians in Russia, and it’s still interesting how many Russians live in the Republic of Kazakhstan. Maybe it’s also not a sin to ask them? !!!
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          but even in Russia people do not immediately remember what Korolenko wrote.

          well victims of the exam and you may be
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          the first guy at the beginning of the video has some kind of suspicious accent.

          I say Martians, or Russian shoviks disguised themselves to sow enmity
          1. Marek Rozny
            +2
            27 March 2013 21: 36
            Abay was a popularizer of Russian culture among the Kazakhs. He translated Pushkin and others into the Kazakh language. Thanks to Abai, the Kazakhs became acquainted with the best examples of Russian literature.
            Does Abay have, after all this, the right to respect for the Russian people? Of course. It was he who made every effort to unite our peoples.
            And what did Korolenko and Kutuzov do for the Kazakhs and for Kazakhstan?

            Z.Y. And with Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Russia they don’t want to start consulting about street names? you have millions of them. as soon as you begin to take into account the voice of the Tajiks, then you can advise the Kazakhs on similar actions in their country.
            1. -1
              27 March 2013 22: 36
              once again, Russians in RK ~ 20% why do you always talk ONLY about KAZAKH, maybe it is worth asking the Russians living in RK who are Kutuzov and Korolenko for them? !!!
              and who for the Russians Amangeldy or Altynsarin ?!
              1. Earthman
                -1
                27 March 2013 23: 16
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

                once again Russian in RK ~ 20% why do you always talk ONLY about KAZAKH,

                Well, when did the Russians in K-do not become 20%? under Kutuzov or much later?
                In case the Chinese become in the Far East at least 5% Are you ready to put the names of Chinese tyrants on street names?
                1. +1
                  27 March 2013 23: 28
                  renaming when happens ?!
                  Russians in Kazakhstan are full citizens?
                  Are these 5 percent of Chinese citizens of the Russian Federation?
                  are you tired of writing nonsense?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    28 March 2013 00: 16
                    1 million Kazakhs live in Russia. many streets in Russia in honor of Kabanbay and Abylay Khan?
                    1. +3
                      28 March 2013 00: 22
                      to begin with, you don’t need to play so freely in numbers, it’s not just a few million that will be more competent to say, but how many percent, and this is less than one, but at the same time there are streets of Altynsarin, Amangeldy and Abay, although we can safely say that not all Kazakhs in Russia know who they are, but who is Kutuzov all Russians in Kazakhstan know
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        28 March 2013 00: 53
                        I don’t know in which Russian city there are Altynsarin and Amangeldy streets, but you can rename them, this is your Russian right.
                        All Russian Kazakhs know who these people are. Kazakhs honor their history; you didn’t learn Kazakh, nor Russian.
                        Z.Y. Kazakhs in Russia are indigenous. Russians in the KZ are newcomers.
                      2. +1
                        28 March 2013 01: 58
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Z.Y. Kazakhs in Russia are indigenous. Russians in the KZ are newcomers.

                        But from this moment in great detail. Not all lands of Kazakhstan are originally Kazakh, are they?
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 10: 21
                        It depends on how you interpret it. The Kazakhs consider themselves genetic descendants of the Turks and Saks, who mixed in this steppe. Starting from this point, all the lands are native. At times, the political map changed, the West KZ was once held by the Turkmens, the East KZ was by the Dzungars, and Kazakhs were driven out of both.
                        The first Russians on our land are Yaitsky Cossacks, but they settled not from scratch, but among Kazakhs, with whom they had a difficult relationship. then in the eastern KZ a small group of Old Believers appeared. at the end of the 19th century there were still very few Russians, and most of them consisted of military people, not civilians. at the very end of that century, the first settlers appeared, the number of which began to increase very rapidly in the last decades of tsarist rule, but even then there were relatively few Russians. and only in the Soviet era did millions of Slavs and others come here - virgin lands, military bases, training grounds, mining and metallurgical complexes, etc.
                    2. +2
                      28 March 2013 00: 27
                      647 thousand. About half a percent of the population.
              2. Marek Rozny
                +1
                27 March 2013 23: 28
                1) and how many non-Russians in Russia? how many shchas there Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Moscow? you ask them how to name the streets?
                2) Kutuzov and Korolenko have nothing to do with our country and our people of Kazakhstan. Take it easy. we don’t have enough streets to perpetuate all the heroes and poets of Russia. There, even in the post-Soviet Ryazan, there was no place for Nekrasov, Griboedov and Koltsov. And all the same to climb us climb, as we call the streets in their country. And it is with you, and not with us, that the monuments to Soviet soldiers are demolished. If it were your will, Vova, you would have renamed all the streets in the KZ in honor of the Russians, so that it would be more convenient. Thank God that I left. We still have normal Russians, after whom the Kazakhs call streets, stadiums, and theaters. In honor of the athlete Olga Rypakova, a new stadium in Ust-Kamenogorsk was named. This is deserved. This is our pride. And call the stadium in honor of Kutuzov and Korolenko in Russia. We do not mind.

                Z.Y. And we do not demand that in Russia the streets be named in honor of Amangeldy or Altynsarin. Your country - whatever you want, name your prospectuses.
        3. +3
          27 March 2013 21: 42
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          But should there be Kutuzova street in Kazakhstan?

          Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            27 March 2013 22: 04
            Yes, the Kazakhs were in the Russian army. Kazakh volunteers made their contribution to the victory of Russian weapons over Napoleon. They have merits to Russia. And Kutuzov what merits to the Kazakhs? Or was Napoleon going to conquer Kazakhstan and Kutuzov saved the Kazakhs from French enslavement?
            1. +3
              27 March 2013 22: 30
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Or was Napoleon going to conquer Kazakhstan and Kutuzov saved the Kazakhs from French enslavement?
              According to this logic, the Panfilov’s really have nothing to do with it. It’s not audible that Hitler wanted Kazakhstan to enslave
              It turns out childishly
              The empire and the USSR were at war then, and who then already separated?
              1. Marek Rozny
                +1
                27 March 2013 23: 36
                WWII - this is another matter. Then the Kazakhs considered themselves to be part of a single nation (although many of the local Russians are convinced that in the USSR there is only one nation - the Russians, they all built, did and fought). The defense of the Soviet Union for the Kazakhs meant the defense of Kazakhstan. And therefore, every fourth of us went to the front, leaving only women and children at home.
                And Napoleon’s war with Russia is a completely different matter. And the names of Soviet wars are much higher for us than the names of other people's wars. Kutuzov, sorry, we do not need nafig. As well as you do not need our Kabanbai or Bogenbai.

                And you are separated from the USSR - Russia. Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan were the last to leave the Soviet Union.
                1. +1
                  27 March 2013 23: 39
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Kutuzov, sorry, we do not need nafig

                  why do you say for ALL, once again in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20% of Russians, at the time of the creation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, even more, but at the same time forgive their opinion on you ..
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 00: 56
                    at the time of the creation of the Kazakh Khanate, there were no Russians here. As in the days of Kutuzov. in the meantime, go to Tajiks and other non-Russians, and consult with them how to name this or that street in Russia. what if they really want to rename St. Petersburg to New Dushanbe? respect their opinion.
                    1. +3
                      28 March 2013 01: 32
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      rename St. Petersburg to New Dushanbe? respect their opinion
                      Here without a mat and not say, but the site’s rules prohibit
                      Well, everyone already understood
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        28 March 2013 10: 23
                        so why shouldn't I be indignant when a citizen of Russia "advises" us how to conduct onomastics in our country?
                2. +2
                  28 March 2013 02: 23
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  in the USSR there is only one nation - Russians
                  So called probable opponents then, now probable friends. In the USSR everyone was Soviet, don’t invent it, because there are still many who remember
                  Soviet people, the Soviet people, it was
                  And about who is the first and who came out last also reminds kindergarten.
            2. +1
              27 March 2013 22: 57
              once again for those who are in the tank, in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20% of Russians, or as usual, we are all equal, but there can be no Kazakh president
              1. Earthman
                0
                27 March 2013 23: 17
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                but Kazakh cannot be president

                Do you really hate Nazarbayev at heart? why?
                1. 0
                  27 March 2013 23: 32
                  Well, first of all, what does Nazorbayev have to do with it, the phrase I quoted has nothing to do with it and it was said differently for another reason
                  secondly, I really do not respect him, although I pay tribute to his cunning and intelligence, I also understand that he is now the only one who stands as a "breakwater" on the path of the storm of nationalism in Kazakhstan and I am scared to think what will happen when he leaves.
                  although in this situation all the fault lies solely with him
                  1. Earthman
                    0
                    27 March 2013 23: 41
                    You are a genius, like the great Olzhas Suleimenov, you ask a question
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Well, first of all, what does Nazorbayev have to do with it,

                    And then you answer him
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    I really don't respect him
                    1. -1
                      27 March 2013 23: 51
                      you asked a question, I answered him, but he had nothing to do with my post, you might as well have asked if I liked rap or rock and would also have answered, no though what does this have to do with my statement ?!
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 00: 20
                    Vasilenko, remind who said that? we already had a conversation on this topic, but you still didn’t understand anything, or rather you don’t want to know. you just want to believe that the Kazakhs are nationalists who kicked you out of the country. then you have at least some excuse in life.
              2. Marek Rozny
                +1
                28 March 2013 00: 17
                read the Constitution of Kazakhstan, Vova. everything is written there, who can become the president of the country.
            3. +1
              27 March 2013 23: 16
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And Kutuzov what merits to the Kazakhs?

              Napoleon did not then make the Kazakhs learn French. To a stupid question, a stupid answer.
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                28 March 2013 00: 21
                There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

                Z.Y. The answer is unequivocal. NO. That's all. And do not be offended here.
                1. 0
                  28 March 2013 00: 24
                  20% of Russian citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan?
                  what are the merits of Altynsarin or Amangeldy to Russia?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    28 March 2013 01: 00
                    besides Russians, there are many others living here. and each ethnic group in Kazakhstan has its own "kutuzovs" in their historical homelands.
                    ps In which city are Altynsarin and Amangeldy streets in Russia? Enlighten, I don’t know what city you are talking about.
                  2. Yarbay
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 01: 09
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    what are the merits of Altynsarin or Amangeldy to Russia?

                    Vladimir, did all those who had merits to Russia have been noted ??
                    Are they named after the streets ??
                    For example, recently I wrote about him-Ismail Khan Nakhchivansky?

                    http://www.savash-az.com/rasskazi/bayazet.htm
                    Or Kelbala Khan Nakhchivansky, !!
                    Huseyn Khan Nakhchivansky is all one genus, but how much they have done for Russia !!
                    Huseyn Khan was one of two generals who remained faithful to Nicholas to the end and was ready to go to the rescue !!
                    At least one of them is marked by a street, even a tiny one?

                    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0
                    %BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9,_%D0%93%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D0%A5%D0%B0%D
                    0% BD
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      0
                      28 March 2013 01: 31
                      Russians will never name streets in their honor, despite their contribution to Russia.
                      they are only interested in the fact that in our countries there are streets of Yermak, Kutuzov, Suvorov and other people who not only did NOT make any contribution to our country, but even some were enemies to us.
                    2. -2
                      28 March 2013 12: 50
                      definitely not all, but the question is not the same
                2. 0
                  28 March 2013 22: 57
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

                  "Whirl ...". Not accustomed. It seems like an educated person, and rudeness is above the roof.
                  About the history of Russia and the USSR, you better ask the Russians who live in Kazakhstan and consider it their homeland. Maybe you will understand something.
                3. 0
                  28 March 2013 22: 58
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  There was a mammoth, stop bustling. What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to our country? Just answer as is.

                  "Whirl ...". Not accustomed. It seems like an educated person, and rudeness is above the roof.
                  About the history of Russia and the USSR, you better ask the Russians who live in Kazakhstan and consider it their homeland. Maybe you will understand something.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    30 March 2013 13: 18
                    How else to call actions when you simply avoid giving a normal answer to a very simple question: "What are the merits of Kutuzov and Korolenko to Kazakhstan?"
            4. +1
              28 March 2013 01: 40
              It is doubtful, of course, that Napoleon could have thought of conquering Kazakhstan ... It is doubtful that he knew at all what it was, just as the Kazakhs most likely did not even know about the existence of the French in general and Napoleon in particular ... This is difficult with you disagree! However, about Kutuzov ... Is Zhukov a hero? It turns out that yes, "... the Kazakhs considered themselves a part of a single nation ..." - your words, after all, but in comparison with 1812, by 1941-45, for the Kazakhs, what has fundamentally changed on a historical scale? It's just not entirely obvious somehow ... Did you take time to get used to it? Have you finally managed to realize the benefits of the damned European civilization brought to the territory of the Kazakh Zhuzes by the Kutuzovs and their descendants? In principle, of course, it is not excluded that a deep penetration into the minds of the people of the ideas of Marx - Lenin about the world solidarity of workers (albeit locally - within the framework of the USSR) is quite an option! B-but somehow it doesn't work again - since 1945, the process has begun to regress? Also, it seems not - in a referendum they spoke in favor of preserving the USSR ... It turns out that the whole point is in the heady wind of freedom since 1991: like the Scorpions !!! Well, in the peculiarities of building a sovereign national self-identity (school, books, TV and newspapers) during the search for acceptable national guidelines ...
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                28 March 2013 10: 30
                uh, de Clermont, I don't quite get it. And what did the tsarist power give the Kazakhs - what are the benefits of civilization? Soviet power is another matter, it gave a lot, took a lot. attributing the Russian people to the Soviet regime is not entirely correct, since then the Russian people should not only attribute to themselves the achievements of Soviet power, but also be responsible for all the shoals of this system. and the Russians usually only want to take half of the burden. they say, we all built and did it, but hunger, repression, Russification and other "delights" have nothing to do with us.
                The Kazakhs considered themselves part of the Soviet (but not Russian) ethnic group with all the consequences. What is incomprehensible here?
                The tsarist government did nothing good in our region. Just controlled, bristling with bayonets. And then land was also taken away in favor of the settlers. Why should Kazakhs be grateful to the tsarist government and its personalities?
          2. Earthman
            -1
            27 March 2013 23: 16
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?

            what you offended by Marek
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              28 March 2013 00: 25
              and for them I am the personification of "Kazakh nationalism"))))))))))) and their meaning of life is to prove to everyone that the Kazakhs got sick and became fascists. since in this case, they have an excuse why they did not succeed in the KZ))))) without me their meaning of life will be lost, because they are fighters against "Kazakh nationalism"))))))))
              1. -1
                28 March 2013 00: 26
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                without me their meaning of life will be lost

                you flatter yourself
            2. -1
              29 March 2013 00: 54
              Quote: Earthman
              what you offended by Marek

              What do you? I just do not like rudeness. Rudeness directly rushing from this individual. And demagoguery mixed with nationalism. Where he appears, there is a sea of ​​talk, Have you noticed? Try rereading his creations.
              I believe that "VO" provides an excellent opportunity to find and preserve what unites us, and in case of misunderstanding, find common ground. There would be a desire. I am old enough, but if I understand that my opinion is wrong, I admit it. By the way, this site also changed something in my ideas.
              This article is called provocative. It seems that yes is a provocation (or the stupidity of a nationalist), not just the author of the article, but a certain Shaikhutdinov. Don't you find?
              Next week I’m going on a business trip. I will pass Kryukovo. I’ll come in and bow to my people.
    2. 0
      27 March 2013 21: 46
      Quote: Nomad
      Russian names of small streets do not count.

      Hands have not reached yet. And in the center there are only beks, bais and batyrs.
      1. Marek Rozny
        -1
        27 March 2013 22: 05
        Quote: There was a mammoth
        Hands have not reached yet. And in the center there are only beks, bais and batyrs.

        ... instead of the names of communist leaders and people completely alien to Kazakhstan.
        1. 0
          27 March 2013 22: 58
          and Louis Pasteur or Kovalevskaya did not please?
          1. Marek Rozny
            0
            28 March 2013 00: 26
            and where do these people and Kazakhstan?
            1. -1
              28 March 2013 00: 31
              And in Kazakhstan, canceled microbiology, how is pseudoscience?
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                28 March 2013 01: 23
                where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan? where is the connection just justify the connection between our country and this wonderful scientist.
                1. 0
                  28 March 2013 01: 34
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan
                  Isn't milk pasteurized?
                  or beer
                  1. -3
                    28 March 2013 02: 03
                    Why pasteurize? You can simply cancel the germs. By presidential decree to declare them nonexistent.
                    1. +1
                      28 March 2013 02: 28
                      Quote: Spade
                      declare them nonexistent
                      And how to convey a decree to them? Maybe they are not from evil, but only mistaken
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    28 March 2013 10: 31
                    and Nicolas Upper invented canned food. many streets in Russia in honor of this Frenchman?
                    and where is still the answer to a simple question: where does Pasteur and Kazakhstan?
                2. +1
                  28 March 2013 02: 00
                  That is, microbiology is prohibited. Together with math. Understood. Regression?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    28 March 2013 10: 32
                    Lopatov, nonsense has already begun to fence, instead of just admitting that there is no connection between Louis Pasteur and Kazakhstan.
            2. -4
              28 March 2013 00: 31
              But what does Abay and Russia have to do with it?
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                28 March 2013 01: 24
                once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.
            3. +2
              28 March 2013 02: 05
              If you talk like that ... There are people whose achievements are valuable to humanity, just to all of humanity; there are people who have distinguished themselves in front of their country or group of countries (Kutuzov, for example), but are known all over the world; but there are certainly people who are well-deserved (well, in front of the country there, by district, village, village or village), but unknown to anyone outside the cordon (with the exception of a very limited circle of historians and ethnographers) (I’ll not call names to offend anyone) ... So it turns out that nothing in the same hut with the logic does not work out! It is simply amazing the desire to translate the topic from the monument to the Great Feat of the united nation into the plane of discussion of children's problems in the formation of the identity of the part of this nation that was cut off without even asking if she wants it or not ?!
              PS Previously (about 5-7 years ago) I was in close contact with the Belarusians, so they could say they didn’t think that they live abroad ... I’ll just voice my opinion, not claiming the truth: I treat the Kazakhs like Bashkirs, Tatars, Buryats, Altai, Karelians, etc. - POSITIVE ... Nazarbayev, Yeltsin, Gorbachev ... I kindly want to believe that reason and history are stronger, and the border between us is a temporary misunderstanding! And then they will eat it: China is right next door, and there, in general, the pipe is self-identical - the example of Tibet, the Mongols and Uighurs teaches something!
              1. Marek Rozny
                +3
                28 March 2013 10: 46
                Let us decide how to name our streets and who to build the monuments for. Russia is a world champion in onomastics, but it is becoming hysterical when its neighbors get their names cleaned up, removing obsolete communist realities and abandoning names in honor of insignificant people for Kazakhstan.
                I repeat, we have enough of our Russians (and other Russian people from Russia who have contributed to the development of our relations) - and in honor of them, the Kazakhs are happy to name objects. They are part of our culture, our history, our glory. And let the streets in Paris be called in honor of Pasteur, and in Vologda in honor of Kutuzov. We have our own Zataevichs, Zenkovs, Baums, Hamids, Tskhays, Belgians, Ilyins, Smirnovs, whom the people are proud of.

                And the border between us is a temporary concept, until we reformat our eternal union)
    3. Gur
      0
      April 1 2013 13: 52
      There is, of course, the right to rename, and even the basis for this has already been summed up even for Saratov, but I can't accept the renaming so to speak, especially since, alas, they do not differ in originality, and are mostly repeated from city to city, from village to village. I have not seen streets in Kazakhstan, in Kazakh it is "shady" "cherry", the situation resembles the revolutionary period, in every city Karl Marx and Lenin streets. So here there are only batyrs. and wrote about his native village. DEDICATED TO KRASNOGOROVS!
      I came home
      I stood on a hill
      I looked at the village
      What lay between the rocks
      I looked at her, and did not recognize
      I was looking for something native
      It seems everything is as always
      There’s a mountain, there’s a churchyard and a river
      Tears slowly flowed through my eyes.
      It seems everything is as always yes still not that
      The aul became, and there was a village.
      Red mountains in the name
      Now Kyrymsak called her
      What happened to you? Where is our club
      Where is the poplar in the meadow, where is my school
      Where I walked in the garden ....... (further more ... I write)))
      And the mass of names sonorous and beautiful now simply does not exist, as probably there is no life in these once-living villages ... Golubinovka, Razvilnoye, Krasnogorovka, Natarova, Shevchenko, Glubokoe, Alekseevka, etc., etc.
  37. +3
    27 March 2013 21: 26
    I read the comments, it turns out that mostly Russians write you are Kazakhs, do not try to change anything at home, add it, etc. And the Kazakhs seem to make excuses that they say no, no, that someone has beguiled. It turns out that the neighbor looks in to the neighbor and says that it is possible and what cannot be done, and he answers him, no, I’m not going to change anything, add it, etc. Especially Kazakhstan citizens who left saying that the Kazakhs would die without them, are especially indignant. that their forecast was not justified by this, they are very disappointed. And according to the memorial, it is being overhauled, and it’s as if by the detractors’s ears, and if it’s finished there, I’m repeating it and not instead of the words of the political instructor (Eternal peace to heroes-Kazakhstani, not Kazakhs) badly? Or again, the neighbor was not hit by aaaa Türks traitors, etc.
  38. 0
    27 March 2013 22: 02
    Quote: Was Mammoth
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    But should there be Kutuzova street in Kazakhstan?

    Didn’t you tell us that the Kazakh dzhigits in the army of Kutuzov beat Bonopart?

    so it was the Kazakhs who helped beat the French enemies of Russia, and not Kutuzov helped beat the enemies of the Kazakhs.
  39. 0
    27 March 2013 22: 14
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Abay was a popularizer of Russian culture among the Kazakhs. He translated Pushkin and others into the Kazakh language. Thanks to Abai, the Kazakhs became acquainted with the best examples of Russian literature.
    Does Abay have, after all this, the right to respect for the Russian people? Of course. It was he who made every effort to unite our peoples.
    And what did Korolenko and Kutuzov do for the Kazakhs and for Kazakhstan?

    Z.Y. And with Tajiks and Azerbaijanis in Russia they don’t want to start consulting about street names? you have millions of them. as soon as you begin to take into account the voice of the Tajiks, then you can advise the Kazakhs on similar actions in their country.

    Yes, it’s hard to beat the lash. But it’s hard to explain. Buy Abay (joke)
  40. 0
    27 March 2013 22: 49
    Quote: Denis
    Quote: Semurg
    as then Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad
    Here at least do not rave. The native name was returned, in the 90th the referendum was about

    Well, after 90 years, maybe in 100 years we will hold a referendum and give it back. Or you can
    1. +3
      27 March 2013 23: 07
      Quote: Semurg
      PRINCIPLE YOU CAN US
      Another principle, another
      the one learns from his mistakes, and the smart one from strangers
  41. Earthman
    -1
    27 March 2013 23: 05
    Quote: baltika-18
    Especially in the place when he announced the agreement of the Tatar and Kazakh priests on the use of the letters "e" and "i". Seeing the guy also invented a time machine .....

    Now, you seem to have read it, but it seems that you have not read it. He suggested this conditionally, since he himself cannot explain this phenomenon in any way, if one word sounds rough in Tatar, sounds soft in Kazakh and vice versa, you can check all the words within reason. He cannot explain such a phenomenon, the Hungarians say Yen - I, the Kipchak Turks - Men, Man, the Oguz Ben Turks, the African tribes say Mben - also I. Is there a fact? is, therefore, he conventionally and poetically designated this phenomenon as the "Contract of the Priests", since you will forgive him, for all the Greatness of Olzhas Suleimenov, he is not God and did not live in those days, but assumed everything scientifically and thoroughly. Well, it's like in the 15th century, Galileo thought, why every day the Sun repeats in one direction, well, the sun does not go from west to east, there is an axiom, he suggested studying such axioms.

    You did not competently compare with Petukhov, well, this is not his serious level to compare. Have you read Petukhov’s stories? re-read everything and you will kiss Olzhas.

    In case you do not trust Olzhas as non-Russian, then the person who taught him how to think this way is Russian Ivanov Vyacheslav Vsevolodovich
  42. +4
    28 March 2013 09: 26
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.

    Kazakhs, I suggest Smoke and Vasilenko to ignore. Let them go to the bile. It is useless to prove them something at the level of logic and factology, they are trolls in the literal and figurative sense.
    1. -3
      28 March 2013 12: 46
      funny I brought the facts, and you about bile, you can explain where I lied and where I poured bile on the Kazakhs
      1. 0
        28 March 2013 14: 31
        good answer laughing minus set, brilliant explanation
      2. Marek Rozny
        +5
        30 March 2013 13: 20
        Vova, yes, on all counts, you always sit in a puddle, in all matters. But this does not bother you a bit. You have mistakes and lies in every sentence about KZ.
        1. 0
          30 March 2013 15: 38
          the funny thing is that you cannot refute any of these "mistakes"
  43. +4
    28 March 2013 09: 34
    Quote: Alibekulu
    Quote: Iraclius More details from this place, please. Always please For example, Roy MEDVEDEV: "I have accumulated a lot of materials on the CIS that I have been collecting for ten years. When I began to look through, analyze them, I found that from all the CIS countries the greatest successes were achieved by Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia. The Russian press is silent about the successes of Kazakhstan - in many indicators of the market economy, in the stability of the political situation ... You did not have such a decline as in Russia in 1994-1996 ... In addition, Kazakhstan did not experience the political crises that we had in 1993 and 1996 ... There are many reasons, and I am analyzing them now. I was just surprised that the Russian press is silent, that in a number of CIS republics the situation is much better and we have something learn them ...

    I noticed long ago that the Russian press writes a lot and with pleasure about the problems of the former republics with the subtext "choke on your independence."
  44. 0
    28 March 2013 09: 36
    Quote: Nomad
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    once again convinced that you, Vova, do not know how to read Russian. I have already answered this question.

    Kazakhs, I suggest Smoke and Vasilenko to ignore. Let them go to the bile. Moderators will not allow them to answer as they deserve, and it is useless to prove them something at the level of logic and factology, they stupidly do not enter what is written.
  45. +1
    28 March 2013 09: 43
    Quote: Denis
    Quote: Semurg
    PRINCIPLE YOU CAN US
    Another principle, another
    the one learns from his mistakes, and the smart one from strangers

    Do not let us make your mistakes, just as you make your own. Do not impose your vision of the world on your neighbors and everything will be ok. Perhaps we will break our entire face and learn that we don’t need to repeat after fools, but draw conclusions on the mistakes of others. But we should go it ourselves and not be shouted by a neighbor. You somehow start to wonder if you need a closer friendship with this neighbor .
    1. -1
      28 March 2013 13: 01
      but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence
      1. Marek Rozny
        +4
        30 March 2013 13: 24
        I wrote about the language policy in Tatarstan (that Moscow forbids the Tatars to change the alphabet by a special decree). BUT! He cited this case as an example when discussing the language issue in Kazakhstan and Russia.
        And you, as usual, turned my phrase into a completely different hypostasis - as if the Kazakhs were talking to Russians how to conduct a language policy in Russia, and you completely attributed from the lantern that we were declaring that Russia would be ruined.
        Again lied, Vova.
  46. +2
    28 March 2013 15: 37
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence

    Well, it seems that with Vasilenko we came to a common denominator that we need to climb less into each other’s internal affairs. Hence, what conclusion should we take away the fence, since we decide our internal affairs ourselves, each ourselves, or vice versa, the higher the fence, the better the relationship?. Yes, eternal the dilemma of the right choice would not be wrong.
  47. 0
    28 March 2013 15: 38
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    but at the same time in the same forums you are happy to tell you how to build a language policy in Tatarstan or declare that the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Russian Federation should seek independence

    Well, it seems that with Vasilenko we came to a common denominator that we need to climb less into each other’s internal affairs. Hence, what conclusion should we take away the fence, since we decide our internal affairs ourselves, each ourselves, or vice versa, the higher the fence, the better the relationship?. Yes, eternal the dilemma of the right choice would not be wrong.
  48. +4
    28 March 2013 22: 02
    Vasilenko, you don’t mind renaming all Kazakh names in yourselves, but we don’t have to figure out how to teach us. And according to your logic, Louis Pasteur Obama received the Peace Prize so name some street by his name or you canceled the world by presidential decree.
    1. +1
      28 March 2013 22: 12
      and no one is teaching you, it’s just not bad to take into account the opinion of ALL citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan
    2. +1
      28 March 2013 22: 12
      and no one is teaching you, it’s just not bad to take into account the opinion of ALL citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan
      1. Marek Rozny
        0
        30 March 2013 13: 26
        There is such a thing - the majority. And no country is able to take into account and implement the wishes of all foreigners. Especially if a hundred peoples live in the country.
        1. 0
          30 March 2013 17: 25
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          realize the wishes of all foreigners

          you clearly and specifically explained everything
      2. 0
        30 March 2013 17: 55
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        .. just not bad to reckon with the opinion of all citizens ..


        So, for several years now you have XNUMHdaras, who are full-fledged citizens of the Russian Federation, want to hold a gay parade in Red Square in Moscow or in St. Petersburg ..
        What are you Volodya do not take into account and do not protect them (I emphasize once again the citizens of Russia) OPINION and their INTERESTS ???
        request
        1. -4
          30 March 2013 19: 06
          Russian in the Republic of Kazakhstan 20%, I hope there are much less homosexuals in the Russian Federation
          1. +1
            30 March 2013 19: 42
            And here the interest ??? It's all strictly according to your statement .. where are you about the interest?
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            .. just not bad to reckon with the opinion of all citizens ..


            So how much interest should be taken into account, opinion ?!
            Oh, our torch!?! recourse
  49. Lignitz
    +1
    28 March 2013 22: 07
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  50. Lignitz
    0
    28 March 2013 22: 07
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  51. Lignitz
    0
    28 March 2013 22: 08
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  52. Lignitz
    0
    28 March 2013 22: 08
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  53. Lignitz
    +1
    28 March 2013 22: 08
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  54. Lignitz
    -2
    28 March 2013 22: 08
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  55. Lignitz
    -1
    28 March 2013 22: 09
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  56. Lignitz
    -1
    28 March 2013 22: 09
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  57. Lignitz
    0
    28 March 2013 22: 15
    I think there should be no disagreement between the peoples of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation. The threads of kinship are so interwoven that it is sometimes difficult to understand who is who. For example, there are many Russian surnames that you won’t immediately guess its occurrence, Karataev, Akulov, Karakulov, Timiryazev, Akchurin, Yesenin, Sholokhov, Yusupov, Tarbeev, Karamzin, Musin, Kulagin, Kopylov, Kutuzov- and so on. Ivan the Terrible himself was maternal Genghisides, his mother Glinsky came from a family of descendants of Mamaia, who adopted the nobility in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, taking the village of Glinsky as an inheritance from Prince Vitovt. By itself.
    So, in fact, we are all brothers, Turkic blood flows through our veins in many of us. It’s just that we don’t have to be compared to Ivanes who don’t remember kinship ....
  58. +1
    29 March 2013 00: 07
    To summarize, I note that both Vasilenko Vladimir and Was Mammoth are competent provocateurs... drinks True, Mammoth was still growing up to Vasilenko... well, he’s a great guy, how he fired up Marek (provoking him correctly).. and then, he so coolly pretends to be an innocent lamb...
    But I believe in Mammoth, especially with such a mentor... soldier

    They noticed that I wrote at the beginning of this discussion... in fact, what happened, as they say, “What the Bolsheviks have been talking about for so long has happened!

    March 26, 2013 17:45 Quote: Alibekulu

    "..This is a direct example of provocation...
    Another thing is interesting, it’s like this “gossip”, this nonsense is picked up...
    I feel itching, I want to distort, slander, discredit Kazakhstan and the Kazakhs.."


    I already wrote, in a discussion of one topic, about such an example, which is largely characteristic of the behavior of “refugees”, “former Kazakhstanis”

    March 8, 2013 20:49 Quote: Alibekulu
    They came to us here, immigrants. So, with a specialist, they rummaged through all the trash heaps... Then they posted photos on classmates. I have a great feeling that this gives many Russians (I emphasize, not all) a kind of (specific) pleasure.
    Here is Vasilenko, also delving into garbage dumps - Internet garbage dumps, just to find any nasty thing about Kazakhstan.. wassat
    Well, I wish you success in such a thankless job... just don’t catch something... hi
    1. -1
      29 March 2013 09: 55
      either you will prove my statement is provocative, or you must apologize
      1. +1
        29 March 2013 23: 43
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        I’m definitely tired of this nonsense already, about bast shoes and about beards and about the fleet that parsley allegedly created and which didn’t exist before

        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Peter's reforms plunged Russia into a crisis, and even after parsley there was no fleet left...

        Well, after such statements, what can I talk to you about?!
        So it turns out you're the one... fellow
        I apologize wildly, of course, but finally I have one question for you, dear: - “Is the earth round?? feel Or is this also nonsense...a conspiracy of the Anglo-Saxons??!! belay "
        1. -1
          30 March 2013 00: 01
          you are very good at pretending to be a buffoon, without even trying to understand the essence of the issue you are ridiculing

          As follows from the census of 1710, the number of taxable farms in comparison with the previous census of 1678 decreased by 21%. By 1715–16, the decrease in households amounted to one third. People died of wars and executions, starved to death, fled to the Don and Siberia.
          During the years of Peter's reign, the state treasury invariably remained in a deplorable state, despite the fact that taxes were repeatedly raised. For the first time in Russian history, the army was delayed for a long time and was not paid. Such a plight of Russian finance was due to a deep depletion of the payment forces of the population.
          this concerns his economic and industrial “successes”

          пhalf of the fleet on the Sea of ​​Azov was given to the Turks, the second rotted because the fleet was built from damp wood, the fleet in the Baltic did not play a special role in the war with the Swedes or in the future (the Swedish fleet in the skerries was defeated by rowing galleys and infantry

          Therefore, before you try to be smart and act like you don’t know what, read the literature on the topic
          1. Earthman
            -1
            30 March 2013 07: 07
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            Therefore, before you try to be smart and act like you don’t know what, read the literature on the topic

            Well, if you write, then write literature at the end.
            It surprises me when you talk about the bloody regime of Stalin, that for the sake of getting the USSR back on its feet, he ruined millions of lives, leaving people in hunger, impoverishment, and then immediately the slaughter of Russian patriots begins, no, this is not so, he has some kind of fifth column under the control of the arrogant Saxons managed. They themselves hate Peter, since he ruined the country with Disneyland, and they forget about the fact that he eliminated the Swedish threat, and everyone remembers some chronology before Peter, unknown to anyone, supposedly the God of the Slavs then created them to rule on Earth.

            However, in Russia the media have already achieved victory for ZOG and the State Department, every fourth person is shouting about a conspiracy
    2. 0
      29 March 2013 14: 14
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Here is Vasilenko, also delving into garbage dumps - Internet garbage dumps, just to find any nasty thing about Kazakhstan.. wassat

      I was extremely surprised that you called the editorial office “Svoboda” and one of the largest Internet resources of the Republic of Kazakhstan zakon.kz a garbage dump, it would still be interesting to find out what I dug up in the “garbage dumps”, which is not in the reality of Kazakhstan
      1. +3
        29 March 2013 15: 45
        Vasilenko..this is right about you... laughing
        Good luck ...
        1. -2
          29 March 2013 15: 55
          and examples are weak?
          Can you do anything else besides “yourself”?
          sticking your head in the sand is the same view of the world, only stupid
      2. +4
        29 March 2013 23: 16
        Quote: Vasilenko
        “I was extremely surprised that you called the editorial office of Svoboda and one of the largest Internet resources of the Republic of Kazakhstan zakon.kz a trash heap”


        This can be answered with the following Russian proverb: - “A pig will find dirt everywhere.”
        Well Vasilenko...burn am
        1. -2
          29 March 2013 23: 33
          But can you still prove that I gave false information, or you still smell like crap?
  59. Earthman
    0
    29 March 2013 00: 11
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    the most incomprehensible thing is why the hell the horde is rushing to the west, what’s the point

    The Turks and nomadic peoples worked closely with Ancient China, perhaps this campaign was an ancient religious, political rite; the Chinese emperors may have hired some Turks to explore a new route to Europe. and with a religious connotation like a crusade, but not a crusade and glorification of Nestorianism, in theory.

    The most amazing thing is that until the 15-16 centuries the Silk Road was the only road from Europe to Asia, many were robbed along the way, perhaps the Mynkols were a punitive detachment, otherwise all their routes were carefully studied and they defeated enemies as if they had long lived in enemy territory, that is, thanks to trade the lands and cities of Europe were known thoroughly and accurately, and given that Asia was ahead, technology made it possible to use the best weapons.

    There are pyramids everywhere, among any nation. The most ancient are Egyptian, and as they moved east from where the Sun rises, people thought that if they found the sun in the east, then there would be eternal land or happiness, and as they explored and advanced, they built new pyramids, then some crossed the Atlantic Ocean and the last young pyramids are in America. That is, ancient people had a cult of the sun and they wanted to find it
    1. 0
      29 March 2013 10: 00
      Quote: Earthman
      perhaps this campaign was an ancient religious, political rite

      then it’s very strange that this is not reflected anywhere, the reasons that pushed Makezhonsky are known, but here it’s “possible”, “maybe”
    2. -1
      29 March 2013 10: 02
      Quote: Earthman
      perhaps this campaign was an ancient religious, political rite

      then it is very strange that this is not reflected anywhere, the reasons that pushed Macedonsky are known, but here it is “possibly”, “maybe”
      1. Earthman
        0
        29 March 2013 10: 34
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        the reason who pushed Macedonian is known

        Are you sure that you know the whole essence of Macedonian in the 3rd century BC?
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and then “maybe”, “maybe”

        Well, offer your vision of the Mynkol state.
        Would you like to say that this Yoke was imposed on you in the 19th century by German scientists?
        Well, justify your vision somehow
        1. -2
          29 March 2013 11: 25
          Quote: Earthman
          Are you sure that you know the whole essence of Macedonian in the 3rd century BC?

          at least there is a clear explanation
          Quote: Earthman
          Well, offer your vision of the Mynkol state.

          first you need to decide whether it was
          Quote: Earthman
          Would you like to say that this Yoke was imposed on you in the 19th century by German scientists?

          First of all, you basically need to raise your knowledge of history a little, because what you hinted about was not in the 19th century
          1. Earthman
            0
            29 March 2013 11: 42
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            first you need to decide whether it was

            Oh well. Haven't you been infected with the alternative?
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            First of all, you basically need to raise your knowledge of history a little, because what you hinted about was not in the 19th century

            Well, of course, I don’t read alternative history, but now I remember: Bad Peter with German scientists hushed up the history of the Russian people, and the Horde from the word Order, there were never any Kazakhs, they were invented at the beginning of the 20th century - say the alternativeists
            1. -1
              29 March 2013 13: 16
              Quote: Earthman
              Bad Peter and German scientists hushed up the history of the Russian people

              Well, if you consider how they manage to rewrite the history of the last 30 years that we have witnessed, then it’s a very real plot
  60. Earthman
    -1
    29 March 2013 00: 11
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    the most incomprehensible thing is why the hell the horde is rushing to the west, what’s the point

    The Turks and nomadic peoples worked closely with Ancient China, perhaps this campaign was an ancient religious, political rite; the Chinese emperors may have hired some Turks to explore a new route to Europe. and with a religious connotation like a crusade, but not a crusade and glorification of Nestorianism, in theory.

    The most amazing thing is that until the 15-16 centuries the Silk Road was the only road from Europe to Asia, many were robbed along the way, perhaps the Mynkols were a punitive detachment, otherwise all their routes were carefully studied and they defeated enemies as if they had long lived in enemy territory, that is, thanks to trade the lands and cities of Europe were known thoroughly and accurately, and given that Asia was ahead, technology made it possible to use the best weapons.

    There are pyramids everywhere, among any nation. The most ancient are Egyptian, and as they moved east from where the Sun rises, people thought that if they found the sun in the east, then there would be eternal land or happiness, and as they explored and advanced, they built new pyramids, then some crossed the Atlantic Ocean and the last young pyramids are in America. That is, ancient people had a cult of the sun and they wanted to find it
  61. -3
    29 March 2013 01: 16
    Quote: Alibekulu
    ...Mammoth was a competent provocateur...

    "Wise!" Are we learning how to label from Marek? Silencing problems is not their solution.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +3
      30 March 2013 13: 32
      and what “label” did I give you?
      and what problem are the Kazakhs keeping silent about?
      1. +1
        31 March 2013 02: 58
        It makes no difference to me how you address me. And I can answer the same. I won't. I think this is beneath my dignity. Reading your comments you see that being cultured and being educated are two big differences. It seems that the comments are written by a representative of a street scumbag. Is this lexicon from there? “Don’t stutter, sometimes it’s better to chew..., ...stop fussing..., . you don’t know how to read Russian...,”. This is only part of this topic. Look in your comments and you will see something different. Or is this what former officials who were responsible for relations with the CIS and who want to continue their career as officials talk like this now in Kazakhstan? Don't blame me. They asked for it themselves.
        I am not indifferent to the fate of the Panfilov memorial. It was my relatives who fought and died in Panfilov’s division, and this monument is also in their honor. And I don’t like adding or subtracting something, and even with national coloring. The fact that sensible people did not allow it makes me happy.
        They tried to solve the national question in the USSR. Even the highest government body of the Soviet Union, the Supreme Council, had two chambers, one of which was the Council of Nationalities. There is no such thing in now sovereign states. They tried to create a single community - the Soviet people, taking into account national characteristics. In all the republics, the national language and culture were supported, national personnel were trained, some even received writing for the first time, some peoples were saved from complete extinction... It was not completely possible. But in sovereign Kazakhstan, as it turns out, this topic quickly “succeeded.” (True, it “succeeded” in another republic, Chechnya. No Russians, no problems.) You can simply resolve the issue. Everyone who says that the problem exists is “enemies of Russian-Kazakh relations” and, accordingly, “provocateurs.” Those who left are “swindlers, swindlers, outright nationalists, random people...”. Those who stayed are no better, they don’t want to learn the language. In addition to Russians, the remaining 100 nationalities think, write and speak the state language fluently. And there is no need to rack your brains, why is this so?
        And you can think about it. After all, Russia and Kazakhstan are very similar in some ways. Problems too. They need to be solved and not hidden. There are almost as many nationalities living in Kazakhstan as there are in Russia. There were no other such republics in the USSR.
        I believe that nationalists are somehow offended people who are looking for the reason not in themselves, but in those around them. In people of other nationalities - Russian, Kazakh, Jew, Uzbek... . And they “find” it.
        I have the honor.
  62. -1
    29 March 2013 01: 17
    Quote: Alibekulu
    ...Mammoth was a competent provocateur...

    "Wise!" Are we learning how to label from Marek? Silencing problems is not their solution.
  63. -3
    29 March 2013 06: 12
    If it weren’t for the USSR, the “heroes of Kazakhstan” would still be living in the Stone Age!!! So, in memory of the gift of civilization, in gratitude for the transformation from primitive to more or less modern people, you can give up nationalist pride, especially since there is nothing to be proud of yet!!!
    1. Beck
      +4
      29 March 2013 15: 08
      Quote: Masterzserg
      If it weren’t for the USSR, the “heroes of Kazakhstan” would still be living in the Stone Age!!! So, in memory of the gift of civilization, in gratitude for the transformation from primitive to more or less modern people, you can give up nationalist pride, especially since there is nothing to be proud of yet!!!


      Two hundred years is a short time for history. The way you talk about Kazakhstan, the Dutch, Danes, and Germans can tell you.

      Germans and Dutch lived in the Moscow settlement, on Kukui. Young Peter spent days and nights on Kukui. And it was precisely on the advice of Kukui that Peter pulled Rus' out of its bast shoes and beards. And it was Catherine the Great, a German, who invited knowledgeable and learned people from all over Europe to Russia. So, don't be trendy.

      And how can any metropolis use the wealth of the colony if it does not build mines, factories, and cities on the deposits?
      1. -3
        29 March 2013 15: 30
        Quote: Beck
        Peter pulled Rus' out of its bast shoes and beards

        I’m definitely tired of this nonsense already, about bast shoes and about beards and about the fleet that parsley allegedly created and which didn’t exist before
        1. Beck
          +2
          29 March 2013 16: 11
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          I’m definitely tired of this nonsense already, about bast shoes and about beards and about the fleet that parsley allegedly created and which didn’t exist before


          That you don't respect your history. Peter's reforms brought Russia out. There were fishing longboats. Russia did not have a fleet before Peter.
          1. -2
            29 March 2013 16: 25
            Quote: Beck
            Peter's reforms brought Russia out

            Peter's reforms plunged Russia into crisis, and even after parsley there was no fleet left
  64. 0
    29 March 2013 08: 12
    Quote: Masterzserg
    If it weren’t for the USSR, the “heroes of Kazakhstan” would still be living in the Stone Age!!! So, in memory of the gift of civilization, in gratitude for the transformation from primitive to more or less modern people, you can give up nationalist pride, especially since there is nothing to be proud of yet!!!

    Who would talk about primitiveness. In Russia, serfdom was abolished only in 1861. Regarding the gift of civilization: have you ever wondered why in the Russian language half, if not more, of the terms of science and technology are foreign words? Thanks to whom? And for hunger, repressions, ruined virgin lands, nuclear testing sites, etc., to whom should we be “grateful”? It’s funny to hear about nationalist pride from a person who is full of chauvinistic pride.
    1. 0
      29 March 2013 08: 59
      This is not “chauvinistic pride”, this is a fact. Nomadic cattle breeding and yurts in the steppes are the achievement of the tribes inhabiting the coastal areas of the rivers. Factories, cities and all the joys of civilization came along with the USSR, and in the form that Kazakhstan now has as a country and territory, it is obliged to the USSR. Nuclear test site? It’s as if your country was populated with cities, and the USSR came and raked the cities and built a training ground there))) Thank you? for the fact that from a primeval desert to this moment Kazakhstan is one of the largest countries in the world, for which factories, roads, infrastructure in general have been built, mineral extraction has been organized, etc. and so on.
    2. -4
      29 March 2013 08: 59
      This is not “chauvinistic pride”, this is a fact. Nomadic cattle breeding and yurts in the steppes are the achievement of the tribes inhabiting the coastal areas of the rivers. Factories, cities and all the joys of civilization came along with the USSR, and in the form that Kazakhstan now has as a country and territory, it is obliged to the USSR. Nuclear test site? It’s as if your country was populated with cities, and the USSR came and raked the cities and built a training ground there))) Thank you? for the fact that from a primeval desert to this moment Kazakhstan is one of the largest countries in the world, for which factories, roads, infrastructure in general have been built, mineral extraction has been organized, etc. and so on.
      1. Beck
        +3
        29 March 2013 15: 15
        Quote: Masterzserg
        This is not "chauvinistic pride", this is a fact


        I'll add. Yes, Kazakhstan, at one time, remained behind the development of world civilization, and not everyone was ahead. And to reproach oneself for this now is only to exalt oneself. And you are not in the leading roles, excluding nuclear weapons. All of Europe, Japan, South Korea, Sweden, etc. can say this about you...

        In the 21st century, your words are no longer arguments. You should have been born during the colonial era.
        1. +2
          30 March 2013 20: 27
          The disadvantages of your diaspora on the site only confirm the veracity of my words. In technical and scientific terms, the USSR has caught up, and in some places has surpassed everyone! And now Russia lives and creates. You live on the foundation created by the USSR. The fact that your ancestors, in primitive impulses, wandered across the territory of what is now Kazakhstan, does not mean that this was your country! There simply were no technologies for developing your desert. When they appeared, those running around with yurts under their arms were seized, warmed, and clothed. And now the nomads are bending their fingers, because you have been convinced that your great tribe running around the steppes with goats would have developed bigger and stronger without the USSR. Although my personal opinion is that you would remain at the level of the Tumba-Yumba tribe. However, if the Russian Federation, China or the USA do not take you, you will return to the Stone Age, that’s for sure.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +4
        30 March 2013 13: 53
        Masterzserg,
        1) why is transhumance cattle breeding worse than peasant agriculture? Can you raise sheep and horses in another way?
        2) in the Kazakh steppe there were not only yurts, but also cities, if you don’t know. The basis of the economy was transhumance, therefore most of the Kazakhs lived in the steppe.
        3) industrialization in Russia happened at the same time as in Kazakhstan - under Stalin. Before the revolution, Russia was a deeply agricultural country, and those factories that were there had German and English roots. Do people in Russia often thank Germany and Britain for the factories and machine tools that appeared in the Republic of Ingushetia before the revolution?
        in addition, the Kazakhs paid in full for the industrialization carried out by the American office of Albert Kahn - for these purposes, almost all of our livestock was confiscated, which led to the tragedy of 1932-1933. The Soviet government paid for industrialization, which was carried out in the first two five-year plans by more than one hundred thousand foreign workers and engineers (USA, Britain, Germany, Italy) with Russian timber, Ukrainian and Volga grain, Kazakh meat, church gold, and not with Soviet banknotes.
        4) Are the USSR and the Russian people the same thing? I don't think so. Again I see an attempt to cling to the achievements of the communist government, and at the same time abstract from the “shoals” of this government. There is a good Russian obscene saying on this topic - “and eat the fish...”
        5) The primitive is you, because you don’t know anything from the history of your country and neighbors. But the Kazakhs did not live in any primitive society before the revolution.
        6) Our factories were built by 90% mining companies, whose products were used for the needs of the entire Soviet Union, and primarily for facilities on the territory of the RSFSR. Who should thank whom - the Kazakhs, for the fact that the depths of their land went beyond the borders of the Kazakh SSR, or you, if we remember that 9 out of 10 bullets during the war were cast from Kazakh lead? Kazakhstan gave the Soviet Union much more than it received. The KazSSR is a donor republic of the union budget: oil, gas, uranium, metals, coal, meat, grain were exported from the republic on a gigantic scale. I don’t regret at all that Kazakhstan has given so much to the common country, but it annoys me when neighbors make a brick face at this and try to make us “grateful” for THIS very fact.
        Kazakhs do not push reminders into all forums that after the war, the Kazakhs rebuilt the destroyed cities of the European part of the USSR, sent inventory, money, agricultural equipment, and people to the devastated regions of Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia to help these regions. My grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybaev, after demobilization in 1946, spent two years rebuilding the destroyed Moscow region. And you can google and read about the general contribution of the Kazakh SSR to the restoration of the economy of the European part of the USSR. But do the Kazakhs demand “gratitude” from the Russians for this and for helping those evacuated from Russia during the war?
    3. -3
      29 March 2013 11: 05
      There is no desire to even discuss serfdom; Russia passed this period faster than anyone else
      about “ruined” virgin lands is generally anecdotal
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        30 March 2013 13: 57
        1) why don’t you want to discuss the shameful pages of your history? were your ancestors serfs before 1861? and “faster” than whom did Russia go through this period?
        2) if you don’t know about wind erosion, which destroyed a lot of land, then why are you being ironic here? sometimes it's better to chew...
      2. 0
        April 27 2013 10: 25
        Wasya this is just about you
  65. -1
    29 March 2013 10: 17
    I read the comments....I'm glad that I'm not alone in my views, thanks to everyone who posted a plus sign)

    I already told the Kazakh-shoviks somewhere: look at your oralmans - this is who you would be now if not for the USSR (read Russia). But they will talk absolute nonsense about serfdom, which, by the way, brought enormous benefits to Russia.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +3
      30 March 2013 13: 58
      Dymok, where did you see the Kazakh chauvinists? Do you even understand the meaning of this word?
      2) don’t even mention oralmans, you have never seen a single oralman, but only know from the words “Vasilenko”. don't make them savages.
      3) what benefit did serfdom bring to the Russian people???
      1. 0
        30 March 2013 17: 44
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        where did you see the Kazakh chauvinists? Do you even understand the meaning of this word?

        Well, you saw Russian chauvinists, although when asked to give examples of chauvinistic statements, you quickly washed your hands of them, and your statement about “all foreigners” speaks for itself
  66. 0
    29 March 2013 10: 17
    I read the comments....I'm glad that I'm not alone in my views, thanks to everyone who posted a plus sign)

    I already told the Kazakh-shoviks somewhere: look at your oralmans - this is who you would be now if not for the USSR (read Russia). But they will talk absolute nonsense about serfdom, which, by the way, brought enormous benefits to Russia.
  67. Beck
    +4
    29 March 2013 11: 39
    Yeah. If we expose the essence of some Russian opponents, who say things that approach absurdities and present them with an intelligent face, then there is nothing but a great, hopeless longing for the former imperial greatness. And their claims and reproaches are not only against Kazakhstan, but against all the CIS republics. In any topic, about any of the now independent republics, such opponents will express a bunch of reproaches, moralizing and even insults. Their rosy dreams, in which they would calm down, are the unconditional entry of the republics, of course on a “voluntary” basis, into the new education with the dominant position of Moscow and the political dictatorship of the Kremlin. So that all republics again become smaller brothers. Education which would be the successor of the Russian Empire and the Communist USSR.

    And such opponents do not want to understand that the era of colonialism collapsed with the end of the Second World War, and its fragments were preserved by force only in the USSR and communist China.

    In Russia, in Omsk, Chelyabinsk, Novosibirsk, Orenburg, Saratov regions, along the borders with Kazakhstan, 2002 Kazakhs lived in 653. In 962, there were already 2010 Kazakhs. The loss was 647 people. And this decline is not due to a decrease in the birth rate; Kazakhs mostly have large families. They just left somewhere. To Kazakhstan for PM. to other countries.

    And now, having gone crazy, and looking at this decline, I will be in a nationalistic rage, imitating the Russian chauvinists, screaming - the Kazakhs are being kicked out of Russia. Houses are being taken away. Money is withdrawn from accounts. I will also yell where the Kazakhs of Russia have a Kazakh-language press. And if there is one regional newspaper, I will shout that this is not enough. I will demand recognition of the Kazakh language in those regions of Russia where Kazakhs make up 1/3 of the population as the state language. I will shout that Kazakhs are not represented in government. That there are no or few Kazakh schools. AND ALL SUCH CRAP. And what? Who will I look like even in the eyes of Kazakhstanis? Right. I'll look like an idiot. Their own authorities will advise me not to talk nonsense that could complicate relations with our thousand-year-old neighbor.

    In my right mind, I would never allow myself to do this. Just like my fellow Kazakhs don’t allow this on the site.
    1. ed65b
      -4
      30 March 2013 00: 00
      Bek, you've already pulled up, rest on the issyk kul. it's time.
  68. -1
    29 March 2013 13: 51
    Quote: Beck
    yell - Kazakhs are expelled from Russia

    you are again trying to turn it upside down, in Russia nationalism has (unfortunately) a place to exist, in the Republic of Kazakhstan it also exists, but everyone pretends that it does not exist and if you allow yourself to disagree with this, then they immediately call you shovik
    Quote: Beck
    its fragments were preserved by force only in the USSR

    This is exactly what is annoying, you still can’t calm down, it’s good oppression, the construction of schools, national theaters, training quotas for national personnel and now we are all to blame, we captured, enslaved, robbed and shit
  69. ed65b
    -5
    29 March 2013 23: 55
    I look at the branches on the site and it’s interesting that the Kazakhs spawn here, while at the same time the Azerbaijanis have forgotten about fruits. They sing to Aliyev Assan and Nazarbayev. Along the way, trolls started appearing, or an analogue of the KGB.
  70. ed65b
    -4
    29 March 2013 23: 57
    And damn, trolls work right into the topics laughing
    1. Beck
      +2
      31 March 2013 11: 15
      Quote: ed65b
      And damn, trolls work right into the topics


      Calling trolls is common. But what lies behind this? So, explain, at least to yourself, what you understand by trolls? Only without the official interpretation. And in my understanding, I call others trolls, those who have no arguments, because they have no outlook and erudition. After all, it’s easy to respond to any comment - Yes, troll, why are you talking.
  71. -1
    30 March 2013 10: 59
    Our grandfathers said thank you on the battlefields during the Second World War. All the countries of the USSR owe you a listen. A Russian man came and taught us how to piss correctly. What for such an alliance, if we survived in the 90s, then we’ll survive all the more now. Although they also shouted without us, the parasites will come to no end .We are not Ukraine; you can’t turn off your gas tap. Teach yourself to piss, otherwise at this rate the Chinese and Caucasians will soon teach you to piss.
    1. -5
      30 March 2013 11: 24
      will you forgive everyone who you addressed this to?!

      and about pissing, well, if such a conversation has already begun, then how Alma-Ata has been polluted, over the past 20 years we need to try
      1. Marek Rozny
        +7
        30 March 2013 14: 11
        Oh, Vova left here and “dirtied Almaty”...



        1232131321






        1. Yarbay
          +1
          30 March 2013 15: 43
          Quote: Marek Rozny

          Oh, he left


          Very beautiful!
        2. -1
          30 March 2013 18: 49
          beauty, only unlike you, I worked in advertising for 15 years and I know better than you how to make chocolate out of shit, and I also know what all this gloss looks like if you remove the general plan
          and here is another photo with comments from Alma-Atintsev http://yvision.kz/post/343545
          1. -1
            30 March 2013 20: 00
            Oh, well done Vova, he found the trash heap again... good boy...

            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir... I know better than you how to make chocolate out of shit...

            Oh, what shit did you do!?! belay
            Otherwise, we think, why is everything pulling you to the trash heap - professional... wassat And we were still wondering what that smell was here?!? negative

            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir unlike you, I worked in advertising for 15 years

            So it turns out you yourself...zampolit!!! fool
            1. -1
              30 March 2013 21: 03
              child of the political officer, your Marik
      2. +1
        30 March 2013 15: 55
        Kazbek does not need to pay attention to them. You wouldn't bark in response to a mongrel barking at you...

        Remember a simple truth...Don't argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and then win because this is his territory. hi
  72. -1
    30 March 2013 17: 45
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    where did you see the Kazakh chauvinists? Do you even understand the meaning of this word?

    Well, you saw Russian chauvinists, although when asked to give examples of chauvinistic statements, you quickly washed your hands of them, and your statement about “all foreigners” speaks for itself
  73. -1
    30 March 2013 18: 58
    Vasilenko, I understood that you trashed Almaty and left, you thought everything would remain the same after you. Marek showed you how handsome Almaty is, look and envy. And yet the Kazakhs know how to build cities without you, and this is just the beginning.
    1. -1
      30 March 2013 19: 08
      wow, look at the photo above, and water used to flow through these ditches, we used to run barefoot when we were kids
      1. Yarbay
        0
        30 March 2013 19: 26
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

        wow, look at the photo above, and water used to flow through these ditches, we used to run barefoot when we were kids

        Irrigations in the center of a big city Do you think this is normal???
        still filled with water!!
        We used to have these kinds of ditches in our regional centers and have been getting rid of them for a long time!!
        Is this all that ruins the gloss of Almaty??
        In this case, I am happy for the Almaty residents)))
        1. -1
          30 March 2013 19: 45
          It’s absolutely normal for Almaty, you just don’t know the specifics of the city
          http://yvision.kz/post/13434
          http://www.greensalvation.org/index.php?page=np
          the city, compared to Soviet times, is simply for and in this regard, you are rejoicing in vain for the Alma-Ata people
          1. Yarbay
            0
            30 March 2013 19: 49
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            It’s absolutely normal for Almaty, you just don’t know the specifics of the city

            You're right, I don't know the specifics!
            Now get acquainted!
            Now I read!
      2. Beck
        +1
        31 March 2013 11: 52
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        and we used to run through these ditches barefoot when we were kids


        Speaking of the time you lived in Kazakhstan. If you are such a fighter for the purity of relationships, then you were born in Kazakhstan and lived for many years, do you even know, at least elementary, at least something from the Kazakh language? Or was it not great for you to know the language of the country in which you live?

        The Caucasian peoples knew 80%. 20% were Germans, only a few Russians knew the Kazakh language.

        If you want to show yours, translate this phrase, which is needed in difficult times. Of course this will be biased, since you can use the Internet. But if it is sincere and truthful.

        Adam men eki kүn nәrsіzdi. Nan berinizshi.
        1. -1
          31 March 2013 12: 40
          you decided to tease me, in vain, I’ll repeat once again to the Kazakh woman who taught us the language, I didn’t give a damn whether we knew it or not, we all communicated in Russian, but I read a lot of Kazakh epics, fortunately there were always books in the house and there was no need to translate from from a sore head to a healthy one, just because the Russians learn Kazakh, the village will not stop pissing in the bushes, about the Germans, they lived in rural areas where there were a sufficient number of Kazakhs, so there was communication, but the urban Germans did not know him, by the way, just like many urban ones Kazakhs
          1. Beck
            +2
            31 March 2013 13: 03
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            I’ll repeat once again to the Kazakh woman who taught us the language, she didn’t give a damn whether we knew it or not, we all communicated in Russian,


            Caucasians and Germans studied the Kazakh language in schools using the same textbooks and the same system as you. Unlike you, they had a desire to know the language of the country to which harsh fate had thrown them.

            And I wrote elementary things in Kazakh, which are not humiliating in difficult times, in devastation, in trouble.

            “People, I haven’t eaten for two days. Please give me some bread.”

            If you were in a village during a famine, you wouldn’t even be able to ask for bread and water. Of course, they would have given you bread anyway, having sorted it out somehow. But how is this from a position of respect and gratitude to the one who gave the bread? You couldn't even say Thank you.
            1. -1
              31 March 2013 13: 15
              It seems you either don’t hear or don’t want to, in rural areas they learned the language not from textbooks, but by communicating in it.

              By the way, everyone knew those words that were in use that weren’t in store windows, so it’s not necessary, and about thank you is also kind of off topic, I understand that you want to show how they didn’t respect you, but I think that respect is not only in language When in childhood, my friend (Kazakh) and I somehow ran into a fight in a foreign area, then covering each other’s backs, we did not think about language or anything else, we simply defended each other
              1. Beck
                0
                31 March 2013 13: 57
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                It seems you either don’t hear or don’t want to, in rural areas they learned the language not from textbooks, but by communicating in it.


                And when you became an adult, you didn’t have the awkward feeling that you couldn’t ask a passing Kazakh in Kazakh: “What time is it?”

                The rest of your comments is demagoguery. We all fought in Almaty region after region, but this is not an excuse for reluctance. Well, I didn’t moan in those days that almost all the documentation and signs were in Russian. How are you moaning now about state Kazakh language.

                Russian children are now learning the Kazakh language in schools on an equal basis with Kazakh and English and under the same conditions. In five to ten years, the young Russian generation will grow up bilingual, just as I am bilingual now, and they will not understand your lamentations.

                According to your method, in Brighton Beach you need to use Russian as a basis. Because 80% of them are from the USSR.
                1. Gur
                  0
                  April 1 2013 15: 10
                  And then introduce Russian and there’s no need for it to be there, Brighton is all Russian-speaking... this is just for the record, as is half of Germany.
                  1. Beck
                    +1
                    April 1 2013 15: 22
                    Quote: GUR
                    And then introduce Russian and there’s no need for it to be there, Brighton is all Russian-speaking... this is just for the record, as is half of Germany.


                    That you can’t determine the outline, you can’t read the subtext. It was said why the jingoistic patriots are not fighting to make the Russian language in Brighton Beach a mandatory state language of the United States. And your tone is as if somewhere in Kazakhstan they wouldn’t speak Russian to you. And in general, all Kazakhs are bilingual. What's stopping you from becoming Dau-lingual? Learn a second language. You don’t want to make any claims. You’ll go to England for a lifelong program and try not to learn English there. In Russia, a law recently passed obliges all migrant workers to know Russian. And what? Nothing, everything is correct. If you live in another country, you know
                    1. -1
                      April 1 2013 15: 29
                      State workers are completely out of place in this matter.
                      The government is not primarily interested in normal teaching of the Kazakh language.
                      a year ago there was a story about one of the Russian schools making it Kazakh, the parents were arguing, etc., I think you are aware of this story.
                      On one of the forums, I entered into a debate and proposed a simple option, so that children from the first grade of Russian and Kazakh classes would study in the same building and communicate with each other, all the Kazakhs of the forum almost ate me with shit for such a proposal.
                    2. Gur
                      0
                      April 1 2013 19: 52
                      There it is, )))))) and immediately on you))) and you define the outline, but don’t read the subtext, that Brighton is like a state within a state, you can live your life there without leaving its aisles, so there’s no point in insisting to approve it as a state one? Are Kazakhs bilingual? Well, of course, that part who lived and studied under Soviet rule, now this percentage is quickly approaching “0.” There are also those who don’t speak Russian to me, or pretend that they don’t. And I’m also not against the state language, especially since we are increasingly looking like guest workers. Only in my work I somehow need English more and more, documentation in English, and our brother is being taught more and more in English, but there’s still no time, I don’t understand, I understand, but the dialogue doesn’t go well.
        2. Yarbay
          +1
          31 March 2013 15: 09
          Quote: Beck
          Adam men eki kүn nәrsіzdi. Nan berinizshi.


          The man has not eaten for two days??? he doesn’t understand further and confuses me in the first sentence!! You haven’t eaten for two days??
          1. -1
            31 March 2013 15: 14
            Are you in Turkey again?!!
            but how fast you are
          2. Beck
            +2
            31 March 2013 16: 49
            Quote: Yarbay
            A man goes two days without food???


            This is the Turkic basis. We live thousands of kilometers away, but the basis is clear. Literal translation of the appeal - Man, I ate for two days. Please give me some bread. And at the top, you know, when you print, sometimes it doesn’t finish printing. I translated Vasilenko people, because I thought that Adam the man I wrote in the plural - adamdar, only now I saw that it turned out in the singular.

            And in general, the main root Turkic words certainly change, but not as much as in other groups of languages. For example, root words, counting, numerals. Yakuts, Kazakhs, and Turks can easily understand them. Somewhere there will be a different vowel, but a consonant one, for example, instead of E there will be I, but what the Kazakh Kyrk Eki said will be understood by both Yakuts and Turks.
            1. Yarbay
              +2
              31 March 2013 17: 43
              Quote: Beck
              Kirk eki

              42??))))
    2. Gur
      -1
      April 1 2013 15: 06
      ))))))))) He smiled, of course he made a mess, and near the Green Bazaar he spit on green puddles, and beautiful Almaty with new new buildings that in two years are starting to crumble, and even now they are building so you don’t know what’s there beautiful marble or tiles, they were set up, the water supply was not calculated, the sewer too, there is not enough electricity in the upper areas of the city, the voltage in the network is 110V. The city is cleaned up after winter, of course I don’t argue, but how can you not clean it up if it’s raining and everything is running along the roads, since these irrigation ditches, as Volodka shows above, are really clogged to the top, the wipers clean up in such a way that they simply sweep everything into the irrigation canal, The way they pay is the way they clean. And Medeo, no matter where you look, the steppe is the same, Kapchagai is generally a garbage dump, because the owners don’t give a damn and in fact there is no owner. And after us there might be a flood, that’s how they answer us.
      1. Beck
        +1
        April 1 2013 15: 14
        Quote: GUR
        Kapchagai is generally a dump, because the owners don’t give a damn and in fact there is no owner. And after us there might be a flood, that’s how they answer us.


        And why are you pushing economic and administrative troubles into nationalism? Baikal was also polluted, but I don’t blame the entire Russian people for this. There is an administration for this.
        1. -1
          April 1 2013 15: 31
          Bek doesn’t blame the Kazakh people, but it’s clear that Alma-Ata and its surroundings have been polluted in the last 20 years, and visitors from the villages played a big role in this
        2. Gur
          0
          April 1 2013 15: 43
          Where did you see nationalism here? Is there even a flood after us? I wrote to you that I am a realist, I am not writing to you from the ceiling, but what happened to me. When they arrive, they unload everything from the cars that they haven’t eaten or drunk, everything off the mat to the side and off they go, when you say, well, what are you people doing, guess what they answer me? That's right, go to your Russia and indicate there, and after us there may be a flood.
      2. 0
        April 1 2013 15: 23
        They collided about the new buildings, Kuat was building a house next to us, and apparently this was the norm, there was no coordination on external networks at all, they still managed to connect the water and lipezdrich, but the gas workers sent them, they got out of it by installing it in the apartments electric welding panels, although the norm for their apartment was given by energy workers at 16 kW, as a result when one half of the house washes the other half cannot drink tea, the garage is under the house, and they couldn’t start it because the waterproofing was installed by “specialists” gathered from all over the countryside of Kazakhstan, respectively without skill and experience, but cheap.
        It’s generally scary to look at the “emerald city”, as indeed you can look at almost all new buildings no closer than 100 meters, otherwise you understand that living in this is dangerous
  74. +1
    30 March 2013 19: 18
    Quote: Kazbek
    Vasilenko, I understand that you trashed Almaty and left, you thought everything would remain the same after you

    Vasilenko and Smoke are rednecks...you, that is, people, or rather little people, who, due to their mental limitations, think that throwing mud at other countries and peoples is a sign of a true patriot of Russia. Once a similar guy on one of the sites said this almost in plain text. For such a phenomenon as Russophobia, the Russian people should “thank” just such rednecks...tov.
    1. -1
      30 March 2013 19: 48
      Mr. Nomad, even if I allow myself something unnecessary in relation to my opponent, although this happens extremely rarely, I say this on my own behalf, you allow yourself to bully while hiding behind nicknames, in real life I think you would behave more quietly
      further, either bring my insults to the Kazakh people or stick your tongue up your ass
  75. +2
    30 March 2013 19: 37
    Quote: Yarbay
    Do you think ditches in the center of a big city are normal??? We had these kinds of ditches in regional centers and have been getting rid of them for a long time!!

    What's shameful about a ditch? This is not a sewer; rainwater flows through ditches. By the way, there are holes in the concrete walls of the ditches through which water flows to the roots of trees that grow nearby, i.e. the ditches also serve to irrigate urban vegetation.
    1. Yarbay
      0
      30 March 2013 19: 43
      Quote: Nomad
      What's shameful about a ditch?


      nothing to be ashamed of, but it’s the 21st century!!
      It’s more beautiful to cover them with beautiful lattice coverings or other coverings!
      1. 0
        30 March 2013 19: 53
        once again this is the specificity of the city, the water came down from the mountains along all the streets, this is precisely the specificity of the city
      2. Beck
        +5
        31 March 2013 10: 49
        Quote: Yarbay
        nothing to be ashamed of, but it’s the 21st century!!


        I'm proud of the ditches. This is the mentality of ancient times. Since we mainly had irrigated agriculture, not rainfed agriculture. The water flowed through ditches to irrigate household plots, and below the city it went to the fields.

        At the moment, our ditches are a kind of difference from other cities. Of course, they no longer carry out the same functions as before, but they maintain the tradition.

        Even when constructing new neighborhoods, the project includes the laying of irrigation ditches, but concrete ones with slits in the walls. Now the ditches supply water to the trees growing on every street. Any street in Almaty is a continuous alley. What makes the city of Admaty different from other cities is that every street is green.

        And the murmur of water in the ditches always reminds me of my childhood, when I used to hear boats along the earthen ditches.
        1. Gur
          0
          April 1 2013 15: 18
          )))))))) I smiled again, every year there are fewer and fewer trees in Almaty, especially along the streets (in the park it seems like something is being done) on one side the streets are being expanded, on the other no one is planting. Those that still exist are living out their last days, every year the situation in Almaty becomes more difficult in terms of storms, recent years are generally an indicator of how everything has been rolled into asphalt and unthought-out development. Two years ago there was such a storm that Medeo and the foothills were left bald. And some hotheads generally advised cutting down all the trees in Almaty along the roads, to which the chief ecologist advised cutting off the heads of such advisers.
          1. Beck
            +1
            April 1 2013 15: 28
            Quote: GUR
            ))))))))smiled again, there are fewer and fewer trees in Almaty every year, especially along the streets


            Yeah. Actually, I went to the wrong steppe. And that there would be 5 percent more Russians and there would be more trees? And the waves on Kapchagay would be longer. And the sparrows would sing like nightingales. All this is due to ill-conceived actions of officials. And in Russia there is as much of this as we have.
            1. Gur
              -1
              April 1 2013 19: 59
              )))) no, you’re definitely not pushing the point, or you want to drag me into your measuring sticks)))) I’m stating a fact for you, so that we don’t disagree too much about the streets and alleys))) and what’s happening in Almaty now, the last snowfall, They destroyed so much wood that they still can’t take it out to this day. And you are a garden city))))
          2. -1
            April 1 2013 15: 35
            the problem, again, is thoughtless development, under the Union they did not block the streets that went towards the mountains, there were no such tall buildings, as a result the city was blown, back in the early 90s it was cool in the morning in a T-shirt in the summer, and now even at night you can sleep without air conditioning difficult
  76. 0
    30 March 2013 19: 55
    It really makes me happy how Kazakh shoviks are foaming at the mouth trying to prove what zealous friends they are of Russia and the Russian people (the world).
    The fact that in Kazakhstan for 20+ years an internal national policy was pursued aimed at ousting the Russian-speaking population from all spheres of power (mainly due to unfair language restrictions) and ultimately led to a massive EXODUS of the Russian-speaking population from Kazakhstan is nothing, it’s very democratic and lawful.... In Kazakhstan, according to the 89 census, there were more Russian-speaking people than ethnic Kazakhs and they lived there normally, in Russia in the 90s life was not easy either, but Russians left Kazakhstan for Russia in famine, in widespread unemployment, after all, NOBODY was waiting for the Russians in Russia, no one was helping them in the new place, and they survived as best they could THEMSELVES. And local Kazakh-shoviks call this EXODUS the flight of Russians for a better life!!! I don’t know, I’ve never heard such nonsense before, it’s some kind of insanity....
  77. -3
    30 March 2013 20: 45
    Kazakhs! Embrace your primal, recent past! Kazakhstan is a country that you did not create, and which you will soon lose; you will be taken over by either the Russian Federation, China or the United States. What have you created? Nothing. This is of course harsh, but it's true. When your diaspora writes nonsense so unanimously, it begins to suggest that you were lulled to sleep with sweet thoughts. Be happy with what you have! The USSR did not build a country with such cities and factories for the Gypsies, and they built it for you!)) And thanks to Yeltsin and Gorbachev, you have had your own country for 20 years! If it weren’t for these “people”, you would have wandered around different countries separately, otherwise you even had your own flag)))) In Africa, people still run around in palm skirts in some places, and the USSR dressed you in modern costumes! Are you already used to it? Stroke your national pride, but it won't last long. If the Russian Federation does not recover, then it will not be divided for you, but if the Russian Federation crawls out, then you will still be vassals! And come to terms with it. Even if your whole “country” gives me negative marks, it’s true and you know it yourself!
  78. -2
    30 March 2013 23: 02
    You say thank you to the Kazakhs and the peoples of the USSR, otherwise now Hitler would have gone to hell, and not the homeland, not the flag. You would have been slaves if you were lucky, but now you are being smart, so be grateful, otherwise now you would envy the gypsies. Who built factories for us or for yourself? ? They've polluted the country for us too with their training grounds. You're used to poking your nose into other people's countries, figure it out. The Far East will soon ruin the country and you'll be in the PRC yourself. It's unlikely that you'll become vassals of drunken Russia. And the fact that you're dying out is also true.
    1. -1
      30 March 2013 23: 58
      thank you dear, I really think that your grandfathers would have given your ass a good kick for what you are doing now
      1. 0
        31 March 2013 00: 38
        Volodka, why are you going to the site to sublimate??!! wink
        “Maifuna is broken”, so the machine doesn’t work?!
        Yes belay this is not gut!?!
        This is how many things are treated now.. and this too..
        You can contact Marek - he is an expert on any issue good
        [Quote] Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Camcha on your ass

        So you are also one of the fans of this am ? !!
  1. Yarbay
    -1
    31 March 2013 07: 06
    I'm shocked by you!!!)))))
    1. Beck
      +3
      31 March 2013 11: 06
      Quote: Yarbay
      I'm shocked by you!!!)


      If Vasilenko is your friend or good acquaintance, this does not mean that he and others like him are right. This means you can tell him all sorts of tall tales and nasty things, and you can answer them, but only with a bow and curtsy.

      Yes, Kazakhstan lagged behind the development of civilization, but we did not produce a khan like Tsar Peter. So now you can post on the website your 18th century colonial disdain for the peoples of the 21st century. Not Vasilenko, but someone else like him, tomorrow they will crap about Great Russian chauvinism, Azerbaijan or Turkey, so all the time, until the end, you will respond to crap and belittlement - Monsieur, I have the right, if you deign to listen to me and if you allow, I most deeply, in some aspects, somewhat disagree with you that you are humiliating my country and my people. If so, then it's up to you.

      Yes, there are a lot of shortcomings, miscalculations, and wrong decisions in Kazakhstan. But something is being done, something is being fixed. And that all this would not have happened if we had rejoined Russia as a federal subject? Conformism of neither a person, nor society, nor the state never leads to anything positive.
      1. -2
        31 March 2013 12: 42
        specifically what is wrong, specifically what fables?!!!
        1. Beck
          +4
          31 March 2013 13: 42
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          specifically what is wrong, specifically what fables?!!!


          I'll try it offhand on this page.

          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          but Kazakh cannot be president


          Any citizen born in Kazakhstan and who knows the state language can become president.

          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          about “ruined” virgin lands is generally anecdotal


          Half of the land was destroyed by wind erosion. I lived in the virgin lands as a boy. In the first five years, Kazakhstan gave a billion poods each. Then it was all over. Fertility plummeted.

          Here you posted a photo with garbage in a ditch. So such garbage can be found everywhere and in any state. And if Marek posted his pictures out of pride and for the sake of others. You posted your picture because of bile.
          1. -3
            31 March 2013 14: 13
            Quote: Beck
            Any citizen born in Kazakhstan and who knows the state language can become president

            this is a specific statement by representatives of a specific movement, confirmed by documents (video recording), moreover, to the journalist’s question about the Constitution, the answer was simple - “it’s all demagoguery.” The worst thing is that these people were not brought to justice for insulting the Constitution and openly inciting national hatred, from which certain conclusions can be drawn
            Quote: Beck
            Here you posted a photo with garbage in a ditch. So such garbage can be found everywhere and in any state. And if Marek posted his pictures out of pride and for the sake of others. You posted your picture because of bile

            the conversation was about the fact that over the last 20 years the dirt in Almaty has become many times more than in the Union, to which beautiful pictures were shown, the only problem is that half of these houses were built with violations, without connections to networks and power metering, that garbage in Almaty and its suburbs has become the norm, why didn’t he show the freckle coast from Abay to Shevchenko, why didn’t he show that every available place for recreation in the suburbs is littered with bottles and condoms, I’m bad, read the opinions of Almaty residents I gave the link
            Quote: Beck
            Half of the land was destroyed by wind erosion. I lived in the virgin lands as a boy. In the first five years, Kazakhstan gave a billion poods each. Then it was all over. Fertility plummeted.

            but at the same time, at every convenient and inconvenient occasion, the nationalists proudly declare that the Republic of Kazakhstan is one of the leaders in wheat exports.
            If it weren’t for virgin soil, I think neither you nor me would exist now

            so excuse me, but if you were told that you smell, maybe you should just wash yourself and not insult a passerby who didn’t like your smell
            1. Beck
              +4
              31 March 2013 16: 34
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              this is a specific statement by representatives of a specific movement,


              You never know there are specific fools and specific movements in the wrong steppe. Zhirinovsky didn’t drink something like that from you, but I’m not trying to force this on all of Russia and the Russian people.

              Wheat has to be grown, so these lands can no longer be revived as pastures. And they are leaders not in terms of yield, but in terms of sowing area. Virgin soil is needed. It was necessary to do it wisely, and not to open up from the Irtysh to the Volga and from “Tyumen” to the semi-deserts of Central Kazakhstan.

              You have Nazis, we have them. But I separate the Nazis from the Russian people. And if your fascist skinheads greet with a Hitler gesture, I do not project this onto all the young men of Russia. And all you are looking for is to heat the situation to a boil.

              With mistakes, shortcomings, failures, but Kazakhstan is moving forward, just like Russia. There are no smooth roads. And if we don’t support each other from America and Africa, everyone will give a damn.

              And my fellow countrymen who are here on the site, judging by their comments, are bilingual and more inclined towards the Russian language, well-read, broad-minded, and erudite to one degree or another. And sometimes they break down only in response to rudeness and insults of my people - like we taught you how to piss. Stop teaching and you won't get rude.
              1. 0
                31 March 2013 17: 26
                Quote: Beck
                You never know the specific fools and specific movements

                definitely enough, but...
                what is important is not what these people say or do, but how the country’s leadership reacts to it, since this reflects their opinion about these actions. For a very long time they could not forgive Vovochka for his statement about the phrase “Russia for Russians” and even on this site he was Oh how I got it
                Quote: Beck
                You have Nazis, we have them. But I separate the Nazis from the Russian people.

                you will be surprised, but I also separate, the problem is that in the Republic of Kazakhstan, for the most part, this “secession” is only in words, you didn’t say a word about Marek’s boorish assertion that “no country is able to take into account and implement the wishes of all foreigners "Sorry, but he is, by and large, a foreigner; he was not born in Kazakhstan; he did not study there
                Quote: Beck
                Stop teaching and you won't get rude.

                I’m sorry, but no one teaches, and if they pointed out real mistakes, then this is not a reason for rudeness, by the way, can you imagine what the Russian media would say about what Rymbaeva can sing and what not?!
      2. Yarbay
        0
        31 March 2013 14: 56
        Quote: Beck
        If Vasilenko is your friend or good acquaintance, this does not mean that he and others like him are right.

        Dear Beck!
        Vasilenko is not my friend, I argued with him too!!
        I don’t think he’s right, because he gave a link to 2007 and I understand that he has a grudge!
        He doesn’t exactly give ethical *facts*, but it seems to me that he is conducting the discussion within the bounds of decency!,!
        Quote: Beck
        Yes, there are a lot of shortcomings, miscalculations, and wrong decisions in Kazakhstan

        Just like in my country!
        It seems to me that you misunderstood me and my comment!
        I am against insults!
        and my comment touched on new words for me, such as *mayfun*
        Quote: Beck
        Monsieur, I have the right, if you deign to listen to me and if you allow, I most humbly, in some respects, somewhat disagree with you that you are humiliating my country and my people.

        I deeply respect your people, as well as other peoples, and if I have somehow offended your feelings, I offer you my sincere apologies and I am not monsieur!
        I'm a comrade!
        1. Beck
          +2
          31 March 2013 16: 15
          Quote: Yarbay
          I'm a comrade!


          Dear! I wrote, then I realized that it was too harsh. Moreover, in our communication, even if we disagreed somewhere, everything was always smooth and respectful. Except for the first time. Then, not knowing each other, we spoke in high tones, but thank God we understood.

          With all the best wishes, Comrade Yarbai!
          1. Yarbay
            +2
            31 March 2013 16: 18
            Quote: Beck
            Dear!

            I also deeply respect you and am always at your service, as your youngest!!
    2. +4
      31 March 2013 13: 57
      Quote: Yarbay
      I'm shocked by you!!!)

      Aren't you shocked by this?
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      stick your tongue up your ass
      The village will not stop pissing in the bushes...


      How would you react if he said that about Azerbaijan and Azerbaijanis?!
      -Fine, okay...
      1. -3
        31 March 2013 14: 29
        So maybe you just need to relieve yourself in toilets, and not on the alleys of the city?
        and about the tongue in the ass, will you provide the entire quote, or is it not beneficial?
        1. -1
          31 March 2013 22: 01
          judging by the disadvantages, there are still people who use city streets for this purpose
      2. Yarbay
        +3
        31 March 2013 15: 00
        Quote: Alibekulu
        stick your tongue up your ass
        the village will not stop pissing in the bushes..

        This shocked and upset me even more!!
        I shouldn't have read this thread!
        1. Earthman
          +4
          31 March 2013 15: 18
          Quote: Yarbay
          This shocked and upset me even more!!
          I shouldn't have read this thread!

          It’s too late to run away, dear, now know this attitude.
          I have the right to express my opinion about you, forgive me.
          It seems to me that you are overdramatizing the departure of the USSR, yes, it was difficult, but this system had time bombs. I read in you such a person who hates everything Western and the USA, before and you allowed yourself to insult a person here on a site from Armenian resources and despite all your respect, it did not look pleasant. And then you started judging Marek, yes, you are right in some ways, but it’s okay if you wrote it once and the Kazakhs understood everything from the first warning.
          None of us takes into account the remote Russian village of Tmutarakan, how Russians drink and lie on the streets, I agree there are such Kazakhs, but does this mean that Russian Vladimir has the right to judge only Kazakhs and openly say: Kazakhstan is doing everything wrong, but if I were, I would equalize the Russians in Kazakhstan.
          What kind of equality is he talking about? Is he with kukuya? or Mars? Which Russian conspiracy theory bit him? Or is he really bitter and believes that Kazakhstan has lost its golden-armed man?
          On the air, the news is even shown in Russian first, advertising is shown in Russian first. If he doesn’t like Kazakh channels, let him connect to cable, the Internet, and buy any press. A Kazakh who doesn’t even know Russian will ask him questions in Russian and not in his own. in this regard, Kazakhstan is a complete democracy, I believe that in terms of the level of democracy in the CIS, Kazakhstan occupies a leading position

          It looks like he really hates Kazakhstan as a state entity and doesn’t hide it. perhaps he considers all the republics to be oppressors of the Russians, including Azerbaijan. And with the authority of the Slavs in Turkey, he is probably ready to set fire to the former Ottoman Empire
          1. Yarbay
            +1
            31 March 2013 16: 15
            Quote: Earthman
            It seems to me that you are overdramatizing the departure of the USSR,

            What does the USSR have to do with it))))??
            You and I seem to be on different wavelengths)))))
            You didn’t understand exactly what I was thinking and what I wanted to say, alas!
            1. Yarbay
              +1
              31 March 2013 16: 21



              To all friends and comrades!!!
              from the heart!!
              Sorry if I offended anyone!!
              I understand your feelings!
            2. Earthman
              +4
              31 March 2013 16: 50
              Quote: Yarbay
              What does the USSR have to do with it))))??

              Let's not exaggerate here. You understood everything perfectly.
              Quote: Yarbay
              You and I seem to be on different wavelengths)))))

              So let's tune in to the same wavelength. the best saying from the American film To Kill a Mockingbird: if you want to understand a person, then find yourself in his skin
              Quote: Yarbay
              You didn’t understand exactly what I was thinking and what I wanted to say, alas!

              you tell everyone that. Write something, they answer you, then write that they didn’t understand you. how so? then this very moment start writing publicly so that your neighbor from Central Asia can understand you
              1. Yarbay
                0
                31 March 2013 17: 41
                Quote: Earthman
                Let's not exaggerate here. You understood everything perfectly.

                I really didn't understand!!
                Quote: Earthman
                so that your neighbor from Central Asia understands you

                I usually write to a specific person and he usually understands!!
                And when, like you, you get into a conversation without understanding what you’re talking about, alas, I don’t know how to help in this case!
          2. Yarbay
            0
            31 March 2013 16: 42
            Quote: Earthman
            Before, you allowed yourself to insult a person here on a site from Armenian resources


            http://open.az/index.php?cstart=6&newsid=2478


            I hate the Armenian fascists and I have the right to do so, but I feel sorry for the Armenian people!!
            I also hate fascists and Nazis of all nationalities!!
            If you had carefully read my comments, you would not have such questions!
  • Gur
    -2
    April 1 2013 20: 51
    Well done, you said it well, it’s offensive, I’m about to cry and go die)))) I say thank you to the Soviet people, everyone without exception, for defending the country, raising it from the ruins, and feeding it. But not for you. Really, why do you need factories? Since they weren’t needed, you threw them away; there was no one to work with. And you have nothing to say thank you to the Russians for? For saving us from the Dzungars, saving us from typhus and syphilis.... no, not for anything? Then read Abai’s message to his descendants, let your arrogance subside. Maybe you will come to your senses.
  • +1
    31 March 2013 10: 04
    I apologize to everyone I’ve offended, but be grateful to your people, they’ve already gotten enough of me, they just took me out. The way Russians are treated in Kazakhstan is probably nowhere in the world.
  • +3
    31 March 2013 10: 08
    I treat Russians with respect, but after people like this, Masterzserg just gets angry.
  • -3
    31 March 2013 11: 01
    Quote: Kazbek
    You say thank you to the Kazakhs and the peoples of the USSR, otherwise now Hitler would have gone to hell, and not the homeland, not the flag. You would have been slaves if you were lucky, but now you are being smart, so be grateful, otherwise now you would envy the gypsies. Who built factories for us or for yourself? ? They've polluted the country for us too with their training grounds. You're used to poking your nose into other people's countries, figure it out. The Far East will soon ruin the country and you'll be in the PRC yourself. It's unlikely that you'll become vassals of drunken Russia. And the fact that you're dying out is also true.


    oh how the Passans....THE VILE TURKS won the war!!!!!11111111
    EVERYONE IS BLEATING ON THE KNEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111
    1. +3
      31 March 2013 11: 30
      oh how the Passans....THE VILE TURKS won the war!!!!!11111111
      EVERYONE IS BLEATING ON THE KNEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111

      You are clearly inadequate!
      Have you tried treatment?
      1. +3
        31 March 2013 17: 11
        Quote: romb
        You are clearly inadequate!
        Have you tried treatment?


        So they treated him for the campaign.. laughing
        And this is the result of the treatment... fellow
        1. -2
          31 March 2013 19: 19
          and apparently you have an ASS EXPLOSION
  • +5
    31 March 2013 13: 20
    The Kazakhs have not humiliated or been rude to anyone before. But after they disgrace my country, I do not intend to remain silent. What a hello such an answer is.
    1. -2
      31 March 2013 18: 12
      But no country is able to take into account and implement the wishes of all foreigners, this is not rudeness, as I understand it, these are relational
  • +2
    31 March 2013 13: 36
    It’s always good when a person stands up for his homeland, country... Guys, have you seen the name of one of the authors?... Stop it, this is an attempt to create discord, judging by the comments - a successful one... Do we want to criticize each other? Let's put everything in order first...
    1. -4
      31 March 2013 19: 25
      What does the author's last name have to do with it? Have you been to KZ? I was there for almost a year for work and talked with the Russians living there, EVERYONE wants to leave! Understand? ALL! Despite the fact that many people have grandfathers and great-grandfathers in cemeteries there, they still want to go to Russia. Because Kazakhstan has become ALIEN to them. Such is the internal policy there, a Russian there is a second-class citizen. This is in a country where there are more Russian graves than Kazakh ones.
      1. Focuser
        +3
        31 March 2013 20: 55
        Quote: Smoke
        EVERYONE wants to leave! Understand? ALL! Despite the fact that many people have grandfathers and great-grandfathers in cemeteries there, they still want to go to Russia. Because Kazakhstan has become ALIEN to them. Such is the internal policy there, a Russian is a second-class citizen there

        You're lying. It is not true.
        I'm Russian by nationality, if that's the case.
        1. -1
          April 2 2013 07: 31
          Kazakh Tuleyev is still the governor of Kuzbass, and even earlier I remember how he participated in the presidential elections.... Tell me, can a Russian in Kazakhstan run for the post of President of the Republic of Kazakhstan?
          Strictly speaking, the only problem is that the Russian language in Kazakhstan is not the state language. This is offensive and unfair to the Russian-speaking population; this is precisely the root cause of the EXODUS. Why is Russian not the state language in a Russian country on Russian territories???

          In what year did you graduate from school, if not secret school?
      2. 0
        31 March 2013 21: 53
        My wife is from those parts and my father-in-law is still there....
  • 0
    31 March 2013 18: 53
    Quote: Masterzserg
    Kazakhs! Embrace your primal, recent past! Kazakhstan is a country that you did not create, and which you will soon lose; you will be taken over by either the Russian Federation, China or the United States. What have you created? Nothing.

    Master craftsman, read Marek’s comment above 10 more times, maybe something will start to dawn on you. Or did your imperial consciousness disintegrate along with the empire? It looks a lot like it. The Russian Federation, you say, will take us? Well, well, come and take it, hero, and take your brothers in mind Vasilenko and Smoke, and we’ll talk about gratitude and everything else. Just keep in mind that the sane majority will not go with you. And if the PRC takes us, then the Russian Federation will not last long. Aren’t you tired of repeating the same tired clichés like a parrot? It’s probably nice to think that the whole world owes you something, but you need to be a little more friendly with reality.
    1. 0
      31 March 2013 21: 07
      Quote: Nomad
      grab it, let's talk about gratitude and everything else

      First, you must have the courage to say your name
  • +1
    31 March 2013 18: 54
    Quote: Alibekulu
    So he was treated for the campaign... And this is the result of the treatment...

    +100500! ))))))))))
  • 0
    31 March 2013 19: 11
    Quote: Masterzserg
    If the Russian Federation does not recover, then it will not be divided for you, but if the Russian Federation crawls out, then you will still be vassals! And come to terms with it

    Hitler had the same wild imagination as you. We know how it all ended. Dream on and tear your hair out, unfinished Fuhrer, that your dreams do not come true.
  • Beck
    +4
    April 1 2013 10: 12
    I'll sum it up.

    17 million people in the vastness of Kazakhstan is not enough for economic development. And when at the end of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s Germans, Caucasians, and Russians began to leave Kazakhstan en masse for their historical homelands, it was very bad for Kazakhstan. The leadership of Kazakhstan took all measures it could in those days to prevent people from leaving. But such were the upheavals of history. How to prohibit people from wanting to live in their historical homeland. At the beginning of the 90s there was also domestic nationalization, but it was in all CIS countries. In Russia, too, blacks were driven to the Caucasus. But this household one came and quickly left. And only among the Russians were there some people who raised a wave of forced expulsion of Russians from Kazakhstan. The Germans and Caucasians didn’t even think about this. They said, “Thank you to this house, let’s go to ours.”

    Enlightened Kazakhstanis Kazakhstan, and on the site my fellow countrymen are all like that, they clearly understand that the Russian people have given a lot for my people. The Russian people, not the colonial empire or communist power. And above all, the Kazakhs have internalized half of the mentality of the Russian people, and this is as important as oil. That is why Kazakhstan has become a leading country in the region. And the leadership of Kazakhstan does its best to support all peoples living in Kazakhstan. What is the Assembly of the Peoples of Kazakhstan worth? There is nothing like it in other CIS countries.

    And Nazis are everywhere. And if we are guided by their inadequate mentality, then we will not build any EurAsEC.
  • 0
    April 1 2013 10: 26
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    First, you must have the courage to say your name

    Brave, he went off and barked from behind the hill. My name is Altai, if anything.
    1. 0
      April 1 2013 11: 35
      So this is Altai, you will bully in the gateway, although I think there you will be much more polite.
      I express and have expressed my opinion (including when I lived in the Republic of Kazakhstan) without hiding either my first and last name, or place of residence.
      I don’t think it’s possible (unlike you) to say tough things while hiding your face.
  • Earthman
    +1
    April 1 2013 15: 40
    oh my god, moderators close this thread, how long can you listen to this nonsense
    1. 0
      April 1 2013 15: 49
      for the sake of all saints, give examples of nonsense
  • 0
    April 2 2013 10: 50
    Finally, in the best traditions of Posner, let me summarize...
    Guys Vasilenko, Smoke and Mastercockknowswho

    Don't get your hopes up! Nothing will be changed on the monument...
    Nobody can give you such pleasure SHIT!?! will not provide it to you..
    Don't even hope... angry
    Good luck to all.. hi
  • 0
    April 6 2013 19: 41
    everything will be fine! wink I believe!