And if after us - even a flood

50
And if after us - even a flood

The President of the Military Brotherhood, Chairman of the Party for Justice, Vladimir Sidorovich Ponomarenko, and Doctor of Geographical Sciences, full member of the Academy of Water Sciences of the Russian Federation, Professor Alexey Alekseevich Belyakov, talk about the problems associated with catastrophic floods in Russia.

V. S. Ponomarenko: As I understand it, the total damage from the current water disasters will be enormous, it can amount to tens, if not hundreds of billions of rubles. I think that after the appropriate investigation, the perpetrators will be punished, but the question remains how, in principle, this could happen.



A. A. Belyakov: Yes, it is clear that during the construction and operation of protective dams in the Urals there were all sorts of “violations.” Perhaps the “culprits” will be found. And as always – “switchmen”.

Meanwhile, the system of design standards itself is to blame, according to which such structures are designed for the probability of exceeding the flow rate of water flowing in the river by 1%. Roughly, not mathematically speaking, this corresponds to a repeatability of 1 time in 100 years.

But dams, depending on the degree of their responsibility, we must design for a probability of 0,5%, 0,1%, and even check, for example, for the passage of a flood of 0,01% of the probability. Once every 1 thousand years. Why there is such a difference - I don’t know. Yes, “protective” dams are cheap for the treasury, but what losses do the population “protected” by them then incur, and who should compensate for these losses?

V. S. Ponomarenko: But, probably, when building dams, we proceeded from the funds and capabilities available at that time?

A. A. Belyakov: I will express a thought that seems paradoxical at first glance. It is better not to build any dams than to build them the way they are being built here. This was clearly demonstrated by the flood in Kuban in 2022, when the broken dam became, as it were, a “dam” on the reverse, rear side, forming a reservoir bowl with a level 4–5 meters higher than the Krasnodar reservoir.


So populated areas, farmland, and roads were flooded. The water stood for more than a month - until a hole was dug in the dam, through which water flowed into the Krasnodar reservoir. And in general, whenever, due to a dam break or overflow over its crest, water enters the space behind the dam “protected” by it, this water has to be pumped out after the flood subsides.

V. S. Ponomarenko: Does it look like a hopeless situation? But we cannot leave people alone with the elements running wild.

A. A. Belyakov: Nobody poses the question like that. We just need to fight not the consequences of floods, but eliminate their cause. It is obvious - the lack of river flow regulation in our country. And it is carried out by reservoirs, of which there is an acute shortage in the country, and to overcome it it is necessary to build dams on the rivers...

V. S. Ponomarenko: But there are two significant reservoirs in the Urals...

A. A. Belyakov: Yes, in the very upper reaches, Magnitogorskoye and Iriklinskoye. They obviously could not accumulate flood runoff; it formed below. But this situation is not only with the Urals; a huge number of territories in the basins of other Russian rivers are in flood zones. The current flood and the colossal losses from it are just an episode in a whole series of annual similar cases.

At the same time, it must be understood that river flow management is at the same time a solution to problems related to navigation, land irrigation, and water supply to the population and economy.

In the Ural River, the annual flow in years with little snow is tens of times less than what we see now. In general, here in the southern Urals, river floods account for 85, 9 and even 95 percent of the annual flow, and it passes in 2–3 weeks. The rest of the time there is almost no water in the rivers here, and its quality is poor. The region is water-scarce.

Can you imagine how everything could change if there were cascades of reservoirs on the rivers here?!

V. S. Ponomarenko: What is foreign practice in this area? How does Russia look against this background?

A. A. Belyakov: Looks embarrassing. We are the owners of huge volumes of fresh water flowing in rivers, but our attitude towards this wealth is both careless and stupid, and as a result, instead of benefit, we receive disasters from the rampant water elements.

River flow is regulated by reservoirs. Reservoirs are most often formed by dams.

It is impossible to take into account all the dams in the world, and this is not necessary. A special international commission strictly takes into account “large” dams - usually dams with a height of more than 15 meters. There are more than 25 thousand such dams in China. In the USA there are approximately 9,5 thousand. In tiny Japan - 3,5 thousand. In India - about 5 thousand. In the Russian Federation - 69 pieces. Not thousands, and not hundreds, but pieces.

V. S. Ponomarenko: Yes, impressive. And it's depressing. But perhaps the whole point is a lack of funds?

A. A. Belyakov: No. It’s just that in recent decades the country has been living in temporary workers mode - “after us there’s even a flood.” In addition, since the late 1950s, the country has had a strict taboo for the construction of dams and reservoirs. It is irresistible, but also convenient: it is easier and more profitable for someone to build “protective” dams at the expense of the state and the population, enriching themselves and their relatives, and report to their superiors about the care they have taken for the population.

And looking 5–10–50 years ahead is apparently not smart. And the state’s water policy should look even further. Remembering, by the way, that low-water and high-water years are grouped together. And after a flood that repeats once every 100 years, the next one of the same kind may not have to wait long. He will come.

Regarding financial issues, it is important to emphasize that dams and reservoirs are the basis for the use of water energy. More precisely, dams should be built in conjunction with hydroelectric power plants.


And if the construction of dams and reservoirs is a cost, then hydroelectric power stations can generate income: the water released from the reservoir can (and should!) generate kilowatt-hours convertible into cash. And this energy is free, because you don’t need to buy fuel to get it.

Now the cost of electricity is a “trade secret” covering the robbery of the state and the population. But in the mid-1980s. the cost of electricity production at hydroelectric power plants was an order of magnitude lower than at thermal power plants.

V. S. Ponomarenko: But still: where to get the money for this? Our domestic capitalists will not give it, give them profit this minute, but here, as I understand it, it will have to wait for years, if not decades.

A. A. Belyakov: And you don’t need to count on them. We need to start by changing the approach itself, the very state policy in this area.

We need a state program for the comprehensive reconstruction of rivers. The rivers must become cascades, forming a system of deep waterways, providing the population and economic activity with high-quality water at the right time and in the right quantity, sending floods into the realm of legends.

And at every dam there is a hydroelectric power station. Their work would actually save fuel from burning. And the electricity from these hydroelectric power stations could be supplied to the population for household (not commercial!) needs completely free of charge.

And this would provide a breakthrough in the country’s socio-economic development, which it so badly needs now.

V. S. Ponomarenko: In essence, we are talking about a national project...

A. A. Belyakov: Yes, and, in my opinion, it is much more important than some kind of “digital economy” or some kind of “car roads”. A general program for the regulation, use and protection of waters of the Russian Federation should be adopted as a state law, defining the ultimate goal of the state in this area and the sequence of its achievement.

And the main component of the program should be the stage-by-stage reconstruction of the rivers of the Russian Federation into cascades of reservoirs for complex purposes. Easier than steamed turnips!
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  1. +28
    April 17 2024 04: 36
    It’s just that in recent decades the country has been living in temporary workers mode - “after us there’s even a flood.”

    And that's it!!! No personal responsibility, no selection of appropriate personnel...
    This is laughter through tears when the regional governor asks the president for permission to run for a new term... Fuck the people, I don’t care about all the development of the region, the success of which is assessed in an elementary way. The main thing is that the president is satisfied.
    Yes, in 30 years, at such a declared pace of construction, it would have been possible to remove the entire housing sector from the floodplains long ago... People used to populate the banks, closer to the water... Probably, the dam could have been built from stone, not from sand.. .
    And what’s surprising is that not a single house of senior management fell into the flood zone...
    And, do you know what emergency services officers who come to disaster zones say? Well, damn your mother, this has never happened before and here it is again...
    1. +19
      April 17 2024 04: 50
      And until everyone “finishes” their food to zero, everything will remain on one plate. I turned on a talk show yesterday.
      “While we are strengthening ourselves, France is completely unprepared to host the Olympics. The Seine River is dirty, there are crowds of migrants in the country, farmers are on strike, pigeons have fouled parks and benches, there are cockroaches, rats and bedbugs in Paris.”
      Everything has already happened
      "Everyone says we're together
      Everyone talks, but few know in what...

      V. Tsoi, 1988, it seems like a song. winked

      This is all a wooden house that is being built and constantly repaired, being built on a termite mound. Termites don't mind.
      1. +12
        April 17 2024 06: 50
        The article is good, correct, but! We sat and talked...

        You need two things:

        1) Strategic thinking in power. Two hundred years ahead.

        2) Strict responsibility for government officials.
        1. +12
          April 17 2024 06: 52
          Needed, of course. The problem is that in this case the termites will have to eat something for 200 years. It is difficult to say whether the building material will be enough for such a long period. Sarcasm, but what can you do?
          1. +6
            April 17 2024 06: 54
            "Termites" and "gophers" must go to land.
            1. +9
              April 17 2024 06: 59
              So yes, but in the end the weather at Dubai airport will improve (there is wind and showers there now) and their charters will be landing just in time. As soon as Dubai starts accepting passengers, they will immediately board.
        2. +14
          April 17 2024 10: 04
          You shouldn't expect real progress from this government. Take away, divide, fill your pockets and then, when convenient, disappear over the hill... In such a system there simply won’t be enough money for anything worthwhile - capitalism, Karl! The only paradox is that the supreme representative of the money bags had a trust rating of 87%... What can you say...
        3. +9
          April 17 2024 16: 37
          You need two things:

          1) Strategic thinking in power. Two hundred years ahead.

          2) Strict responsibility for government officials.

          We need it, but where can we get it if we haven’t had this “strategic thinking” for more than 30 years? This was planning under the USSR, but the capitalist and their protege don’t need this, give him a profit, the “market” will regulate it like fairy tales... And then, they seized power in the 90s not so that the country and the people would feel good. ..
          And what kind of responsibility can there be, we have seen for more than 30 years that there is none, they are responsible only not to the people, if something does not suit “himself”, then he does not abandon “his own”, he will always find a warm place...
        4. Alf
          +10
          April 17 2024 20: 17
          Quote: Ilya-spb
          2) Strict responsibility for government officials.

          Dear Ilya! You say some strange things, our government, in principle, does not know the concept of “responsibility”.
      2. +23
        April 17 2024 07: 06
        Before us is another clear example of the continuing degradation of our government, led by a “manual manager and a great chess player.” Unfortunately, since the 90s, we have developed a feudal-class society and there are absolutely no social elevators. The motto of the hashes of the “elite” is to steal, and after me there will be a flood! In general, we are moving with confident steps towards the next revolution!
    2. -13
      April 17 2024 08: 57
      And that's it!!! No personal responsibility, no selection of appropriate personnel...
      This is laughter through tears when the regional governor asks the president for permission to run for a new term..


      And until everyone “finishes” their food to zero, everything will remain on one plate. I turned on a talk show yesterday.
      "While we are strengthening, France


      2) Strict responsibility for government officials.

      Termites" and "gophers" must go to land.

      Before us is another clear example of the continuing degradation of our government, led by a “manual manager and a great chess player.”

      And no one will be held accountable for the embezzlement.

      “Citizens were filled with anger, but no one noticed that the culprit was no longer there” (c)
      You article carefully did you read????
      "Moreover, in a country with late 1950s years, a strict taboo was established on the construction of dams and reservoirs. It's irresistible"
      oligarchs at the end 1950h belay Is this a taboo established???

      Transbaikalia and the Far East are drowning each year - apparently Putin personally used a stick to drive the population there closer to the water for the last 100 years?

      And yes - the naive faith of a kindergartener in “Here we are, we spanked scoundrels / scoundrels / thieves and we will live...” - for some reason it rests on ignorance its same history. When the People's Commissars of Communications were shot like dogs - but 'government' telegrams in January 1941 lay around at the government communications center in the Kremlin for 3 days unsent - with the regulations for sending "immediately".
      What difference does it make that the people's commissars were shot - if the drug addicts were a mess (and it could not help but be with such approaches) it remained so...

      Z. S
      For those screaming about the “anti-adviser” - I’m with pleasure I would allocate 10 liters of gasoline if current would have been stacked alive on Red Square and surrounded with firewood for the auto-da-fe feel
    3. +5
      April 18 2024 07: 43
      [My
      New
      Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx
      +18
      Yesterday, 04: 36
      New
      It’s just that in recent decades the country has been living in temporary workers mode - “after us there’s even a flood.”

      And that's it!!! No personal responsibility, no selection of appropriate personnel...
      This is laughter through tears when the regional governor asks the president for permission to run for a new term... Fuck the people, I don’t care about all the development of the region, the success of which is assessed in an elementary way. The main thing is that the president is satisfied.
      Yes, in 30 years, at such a declared pace of construction, it would have been possible to remove the entire housing sector from the floodplains long ago... People used to populate the banks, closer to the water... Probably, the dam could have been built from stone, not from sand.. .
      And what’s surprising is that not a single house of senior management fell into the flood zone...
      And, do you know what emergency services officers who come to disaster zones say? Well, damn your mother, this has never happened before and here it is again...]
      I want to add.
      Just today I read about help for flood victims.
      Verbatim.
      For partial destruction of property by flood, the state will pay 70 thousand rubles per family member.
      Those who lost all their property (criterion - place of registration) - 120 thousand each.
      Arguments and Facts. √15.
      Like this! I say to my wife: “Imagine, we lost everything and received 240 thousand rubles in compensation!” It's mind boggling! They steal in billions and millions, and the compensation to the chickens is a joke.
  2. +11
    April 17 2024 04: 48
    V. S. Ponomarenko: But in the Urals there are two significant reservoirs...

    The rivers Ural (yaik), Belaya, Chusovaya, Tura and Tobol were originally transport arteries that were not loaded with dams. Which, by the way, in the Urals (Stone Belt) is more numerous than populated areas. Features of the formation of production in the 17th-19th centuries. Mining civilization and all that.
    As for the flood in Orsk-Orenburg, it is a trivial human factor, which they are trying to blame on gophers. Historic Orenburg changed its location twice (once due to flooding).
    I will be cruel, I will rehabilitate the gophers, and I will punish everyone involved in the design and construction of the dam in Orsk, together with the real administration (for their sluggishness).
    An example will be indicative.
    1. +16
      April 17 2024 07: 23
      At your own expense, feed them later... The deadlines should be 5-15-25 and execution. First time 5 second 15, third 25. Embezzlement immediately 25 years. No thefts - just theft. I read about shipping - ships could sail from the Caspian Sea to Orenburg for only 150 days maximum. There is no one to clean the forest, but here the river needs to be cleared of reeds and the bottom deepened. With the rise in prices for railway transportation, we began to transport by truck, as a result, diesel fuel became more expensive than 100 times gasoline. And no one can tell why diesel has increased in price when, as before, it cost 2 times cheaper than 76 gasoline.
      1. +1
        April 17 2024 15: 06
        On the Yenisei, navigation also takes about five to six months, then the river freezes and there is nothing left.
        1. 0
          April 17 2024 16: 53
          The reason is not in winter and frost, but in the shallowing of the Ural River in summer. I wrote about the maximum days of navigation. Where I found the information from 53 to 150 days it is written. Plus the bridges get in the way. Look on the Internet, it's all there.
      2. +1
        April 17 2024 16: 47
        And no one can tell why diesel prices have increased so much

        You yourself answered, road transportation has increased, and accordingly the demand for diesel fuel has increased, but the capitalists will not allow theirs, especially a monopolist, and as a result, diesel has increased in price...
        1. +8
          April 17 2024 17: 17
          So our entire economy is turned upside down. It’s normal to sell a chicken egg 2000 km away, right?! How much difference in cost can there be?! Is it normal to transport simple brick bread 50-150 km?! Orenburg roasted sunflower seeds are cheaper to buy in Kumertau than in Orenburg, is that also considered normal?! Milk is hauled from Chuvashia and the Perm region, from Samara - expensive diesel allows you to earn a lot from such logistics?! These are not capitalists... I laughed for a long time when they started transporting salt boiled from the Moscow region, from Altai. Sugar is a different story. It was mainly Meleuzovsky, then it came from Sterlitamak, once it came from some area of ​​the Orenburg region. Now more often from the Kursk region. Here would be a photo from the counter... complete. I’ll add that now Magnit drivers are offered salaries of up to 250 thousand rubles. But they don’t exist.... It’s profitable to carry transportable goods all over the country....
          1. +2
            April 17 2024 17: 41
            Sugar is a different story.

            Buzdyak sugar existed in its time; sugar beets were grown throughout Bashkoria...
            I understand that they are taking them to places where they don’t grow them, but if they are taking them to places where they can grow them themselves, there won’t be enough trucks and drivers...
            1. +3
              April 18 2024 04: 33
              Yes, the stupid reason is that distilleries and sugar factories bought up Moscow ones. Until 2010, from the south of Bashkiria to Meleuz, all collective farms planted sugar beets. Then the old collective farm chairmen left and that’s it - now the sunflower is the king of the fields. Let's add that prices are jacked up when warehouses are overflowing - we come across sugar that was produced 5 years ago. But we can’t store potatoes - the problem is again in warehouses - they’re kind of unprofitable. In total, we put everything into chips and you can’t hand over the rot to the distillery. By the way, pork meat from near Ufa in Kumertau costs +- 200 rubles. kg On the market from private buyers 400 rubles. In Orenburg up to 700 rub. In the region they cannot force the tenants to keep the cattle. Some people try to carry out sowing so that there is no harvest - saving on harvesting and obtaining insurance. Some first thought of converting their lawns to propane, and now they are trying to bankrupt the former collective farm. And cattlemen don’t go to work for 3-5 thousand in winter. VGTRK Orenburg did a report this winter about poor livestock management. The veterinarian sent the video to journalists.
          2. +4
            April 17 2024 18: 16
            Fifty years ago, both here and abroad, it was determined that the limit of profitability and normal prices (margin from 3 to 10%) within a radius of no more than 500 km. If it is more, the price is many times higher. That is why in the USSR the regions were self-sufficient, so that the price was affordable and they could survive in the event of some kind of disaster. Now profit is at the forefront, product prices are at least three to five times higher than production costs. belay
  3. +17
    April 17 2024 05: 13
    Previously, in the USSR there was an entire body that dealt with rivers and hydraulic structures, I came across this when I worked a little in the district administration, and it was necessary to audit the hydraulic structures in the region. I had almost 150 of them, all kinds of hydraulic structures and dams. Previously, state farms handled them, repaired them, monitored them, monitored the level, cleaned the rivers, but now everything has collapsed and everything has fallen into disrepair. I started an audit, oh, I drove around the entire municipal area, I found, more or less compiled a register, as a result, 2 hydraulic structures seem to be of the 3rd category, the rest seem to be 4. Those two at least had declarations, but they were in terrible condition and required repairs, although one of the papers was repaired a couple of years ago, and there is a lake on top, and SNT below, it will break through and wash it to hell. Well, I went to the head of the district, prepared an estimate for all the hydraulic structures, for inspections, declarations, etc., it came out to about 400 million rubles, the head even threw a notepad at me, and told me not to approach me with this issue anymore. And once, at the Rostechnadzor commission, they told me, you better quit, the dam will break, and you will remain to blame, in the end I left, the dam seems to be standing. Why am I saying this, there are a lot of ownerless hydraulic structures in the country that no one looks after or is responsible for, and in fact no one takes care of them, just like the rivers, that’s why they drown all the time, there is no money for all this, but then for rescue operations much more is spent.
    1. +4
      April 17 2024 05: 20
      I can’t say that I’m a big fan of Comedy, but here you’ll clearly hear familiar notes, which is what we wrote about laughing
  4. +5
    April 17 2024 05: 35
    if the flooding were accidental, well, it rained there for a whole month every day in the summer, that’s one thing. But if flooding happens every spring due to the fact that Siberian rivers have the habit of “doing this” in the spring from the day of their birth for millions of years every spring, then for people this is already such a national “rite” and tradition. It's like skiing in winter and a cart in summer.
    But there is one thing. Man made some adjustments to the habit of rivers being so “naughty” every spring. He built dams and dams on the rivers. This means that it is not the river’s fault, but those who specifically overlooked, did poorly, violated, stole, saved, did not understand, did not know how to foresee.
    1. +12
      April 17 2024 05: 46
      We have already been enlightened that mice are to blame for everything. Natural factor, complex biological mechanism laughing
      1. +11
        April 17 2024 08: 54
        We have already been enlightened that mice are to blame for everything. Natural factor, complex biological mechanism laughing

        Not mice, but gophers! Orsky gopher, to all gophers - gopher. Not every cat will risk messing with him, and after the current flood, dogs will avoid him.
        Now, no joke, the steppe “suslyar” is not an African meerkat. He is quite well-fed and well-fed, but to hang a dam on him in Orsk is lawlessness and utter nonsense!!!
  5. +4
    April 17 2024 06: 00
    The Lord gives powers, natural disasters and wars to the nations for their admonition. God has a lot of everything!
    And according to the free will given to people, they can also make things worse.
  6. +20
    April 17 2024 06: 22
    Specifically in Orsk. That embankment structure that the mice “gnawed” was not even a dam. Just an embankment worth 1 billion. And no one will be held accountable for the embezzlement. But the mayor of Orsk bought an apartment in Dubai. Further upstream is the Iriklinskoe reservoir, again if someone controlled the spillway, then there was no such flood. And again, no one will be asked.
    But today Colonel Kvachkov is being tried.
  7. +19
    April 17 2024 06: 34
    Let's put it briefly - the main problem of our country is capitalism. Moreover, it’s capitalism in Putin’s version. Everything else is just inevitable consequences.
    1. +6
      April 17 2024 17: 31
      Moreover, it’s capitalism in Putin’s version.

      What, you've taken a swipe at something sacred, we live in the most prosperous times, not like in the times of "galoshes", if you want 30 varieties of sausage - please, if you want an apartment - please too, just take a mortgage for 30 years, and any cars you want , also on credit... If you want naked parties, please too, but there are so many different fleachers and different “elites”, then please too... But there is no honor for the man of labor...
    2. -5
      April 18 2024 04: 36
      Another poke at one culprit. The rest are just for show. In 1957, Putin also caused a flood in Orsk, right?!
  8. +7
    April 17 2024 07: 15
    Nonsense, complete nonsense. To begin with, there is no need to build houses in the floodplains of the river. In Orenburg, where there were vegetable gardens, houses were built. A floodplain where the river can always change its course; no dam will help. There is a video about Orsk about the flood of 1957. And initially one decided not to put a city there, but the other did. There was also a reason - it would wash away in the spring. It is complete idiocy to justify the stupidity of the builders. Weather forecasts are still at the level of guess what will happen. Artillery fire spotters will tell you how many times per hour they make corrections only for the wind. Reservoirs are primarily needed for hydroelectric power stations, and small ones for fish farming. The rest will never be calculated. I was in Orsk last year - there you can shoot a movie about the 90s without scenery. The city is essentially in a hole. The only thing that was better there was a bridge with a load of 40 tons. Everywhere I was I saw a maximum of 30 ton bridges. And this is when, according to traffic regulations, trucks of 38-41 tons can travel on regular roads. And the collective farm Kamaz truck with a 60 trailer only transports grain. Up to 70 tons of crushed stone was transported in semi-trailers. Roads are built for 6 tons per axle... In Orenburg, storm drains need to be built taking into account the wishes of residents - according to the mayor of Orenburg...
    1. +4
      April 17 2024 07: 33
      As for construction, yes, that’s right! Where we used to have melt water drainage ditches, houses were built and the ditches were leveled! This is for the last 10 years! There haven't been floods like this since 1998! So this year the water started flowing through the village because everything was leveled and the land was sold! That's how we live! Regarding the Magnitogorsk Reservoir... I live nearby! Water was released twice, the first time 40 thousand cubic meters, the next day 80 thousand cubic meters! There are two videos a day apart...! In Soviet times, and even in the 90s, the floods were even worse, but there were no problems like this year in Orsk and Kurgan...
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 10: 38
        The problem is new buildings and urban expansion. They were allowed to build houses in the gardens in the 6th quarter. And like live there (hello mortgage). The country is huge. Compare the area and population of Moscow and Belarus - and say that you want to live in Moscow. Just now I was reviewing one conversation with Andrei Shkolnikov - it seemed to be about geopolitics, but at the end he very accurately described raising children and where to live after 50 years. And in which houses or apartments? At first, I myself barely fought off a 40-plus year old wooden house 15 meters from a stream, where the cellar in the yard was above ground level, and there was a spring on the neighboring property. Like a vegetable garden, the soil there is superb (not in a rainy year). Although I also remember from stories that it used to flood there in the winter, so they cut away the ice on the road so that the water would pass faster in the spring. There, 100 meters away, a stream flows into a larger river, plus a stream from a spring, and all this is under the mountain. Then he fought off a 1-room apartment in the regional center on the 3rd floor of a five-story building. To understand, we first lived in the regional center on the 4th and 5th floors, and then for 17 years in the village in a normal brick house of 60 square meters (also a three-room apartment with its own yard). Well, a man of more than 60 years old crawls to the 5th floor with 2 smoke breaks - well, they weren’t persuaded to sell an apartment there at the time. And now a one-room apartment costs 500-600 thousand, a two-room apartment costs 600-900 thousand, and a three-room apartment costs a little more. But who really needs them. Stupid standards for families with many children already require 4 rooms or a house of 100 square meters. There is a joke: they sell a house built in 2014 for 60 lyams; they once sold a Soviet-era oil depot for 57 lyams. And the Sberbank building (an extension to a five-story residential building) for 17 lyams... I understand that this is nonsense in one comment.
        1. -3
          April 17 2024 12: 02
          a house with amenities is very expensive
          1. +1
            April 18 2024 04: 44
            Appetite is never cheap. There is a wooden house of 350 square meters and a garage for 4 cars. There is a lot more, but the plot is 10 acres. There are from 2 to 7 lyams both in the regional center and in the villages. But in 30 years the population has decreased by a third. The whole open-pit mine was destroyed - it’s time to build a reservoir.
            1. +1
              April 18 2024 04: 55
              There is one rhetorical question here - who will buy it? There is only 1 bus going to the regional center, but there seem to be only 2 in the area. It would be possible to create a VIP hotel - again, for whom? But in the forest they say they have built a house for Pasler... the question is where it will be after some time... Berg did not allow the L-410 aircraft to be made in Orenburg and the plant stands idle elsewhere.
  9. +11
    April 17 2024 07: 35
    But still: where to get the money for this?

    Yes, we have overtaken Germany economically here. And you are asking about such nonsense!
    Although, in fact, I would also like to know: when will our roads (with cars) be like in Germany and even better? We are now in the lead!
  10. +3
    April 17 2024 07: 41
    The cause of catastrophic floods is human activity, including the legacy of Soviet times. Deforestation, which creates shade and lengthens the period of snowmelt, as well as drainage of swamps, which leads to the release of melt water into rivers. Catastrophic floods and shallowing of rivers are links in one chain.
    1. +11
      April 17 2024 09: 55
      including the legacy of Soviet times.


      The USSR has been gone for more than 30 years, and you blame it on the Great Country.
      Thanks to the legacy of Soviet times, today's Russia was able to live for 30 years.

      Uncontrolled cutting down of trees by “black loggers” in the forested regions of the country has flourished in modern Russia.
      Search online for “black lumberjacks” and you’ll learn a lot.

      “Black lumberjacks” - this concept did not yet exist in the USSR.

      The "black lumberjack" destroyed forest worth 108 million rubles.
      https://dzen.ru/a/Y8j3vjaNfhDXELga

      The “black lumberjack” from the Sovetsky district is accused of causing 85 million rubles in damage to the Ministry of Forestry
      https://bnkirov.ru/news/ekonomika/chernyy-lesorub-iz-sovetskogo-rayona-obvinyaetsya-v-prichinenii-85-mln-rubley-ushcherba-minleskhozu/

      In the Tver region, a “black lumberjack” cut down almost 100 trees.
      https://xn-----6kcalbbrfn0iijf7msb.xn--p1ai/news/proisshchestviya/v-tverskoy-oblasti-chyernyy-lesorub-spilil-pochti-100-derevev/
  11. +10
    April 17 2024 08: 21
    We sat... chatted..., well, they suggested. And at the end - as always, NOTHING. It’s high time to be “puzzled” by the issue of NATION BUILDING!!! This concept should include all strategic issues of our existence, forecasting. And this should be a priority. And our governors are like schoolchildren in class - according to YOUR decree, we are a thousand, you are a thousand, and what about ourselves? .........can I run for a second term or not?
  12. +5
    April 17 2024 08: 57

    In general, here in the southern Urals, river floods account for 85, 9 and even 95 percent of the annual flow, and it passes in 2–3 weeks.
    Can you imagine how everything could change if there were cascades of reservoirs on the rivers here?!

    Yes, another Yksperd!
    We are being offered to build a cascade of reservoirs that would accumulate at least half of the flow. If my memory serves me right, then there is a steppe, that is, a flat space. How high should the dams be built and how much space will be used to alienate the territory? What cities and enterprises will have to be moved?
    There are no examples of places where reservoirs can be built that are not in the article; I just didn’t look at the map.
    1. -1
      April 17 2024 12: 00
      How high should the dams be built and how much space will be used to alienate the territory? What cities and enterprises will have to be moved? - the main task was to kick the redheads with “capilism” and poke into THOUSANDS of dams.
      And asking about heights/resettlement/costs is not for them
  13. +1
    April 17 2024 11: 00
    In addition, since the late 1950s, the country has established a strict taboo on the construction of dams and reservoirs.

    I wonder why ? To what territories did it spread?
    If you mean the region under discussion, then maybe. was this related to the economic interests of the Kazakh SSR?
  14. +1
    April 17 2024 11: 21
    You have not been active as a commentator for a long time (write comments). Voting is prohibited.
  15. 0
    April 17 2024 17: 07
    There is no need to build - where the river overflows - that’s all
  16. +1
    April 18 2024 09: 44
    Google where the son of the mayor of Orsk is
    like a small detail
  17. 0
    April 18 2024 23: 50
    Why discuss this problem in the Russian Federation and compare it with China? In 1991, the USSR was destroyed, capitalism was imposed, robbery and theft is an achievement, a thief is a respected person. Who in such a country will build for the people?
  18. 0
    April 21 2024 16: 21
    Of course this will continue. First, read the reports that the Ministry of Emergency Situations issues every year. Our country is worn out and it is badly worn out. Somewhere the figure flashed: 30 trillion rubles must be spent. And where can I get them from? That's right - out of nowhere. Consequently, in the coming years, dams and bridges will collapse, pipes will burst, and many houses with their residents will collapse and elevators will fall. In short, a wonderful future awaits us. Just don’t need poplar. Adequately and soberly assess the situation. If not, then find the reports of the Ministry of Emergency Situations and read them. Read carefully and your hair will stand on end. Before starting a war, the country had to be repaired.
  19. 0
    April 23 2024 04: 04
    You can read about Orenburg and development in the river floodplain there.