The Russian-French alliance and the failed campaign in India: what Paul I and Napoleon agreed on

58
The Russian-French alliance and the failed campaign in India: what Paul I and Napoleon agreed on
Battle of Marengo. Painting by Louis-François Lejeune


The topic of the Russian-French alliance during the Napoleonic Wars remained in the shadows for a long time, and most historians considered it in passing. It is known that Napoleon was not eager to fight with Russia and therefore entered into an alliance with it twice: in 1800 and 1807. What all this led to and could have led to if the allied relations had lasted longer, we will consider.



So, 1800.

Napoleon is 31 years old, he came to power a few months ago, and before that he had already distinguished himself in the Italian and Egyptian campaigns as a talented and extraordinary commander. Napoleon did not inherit the state in the most enviable state: revolutionary instability, general corruption, banditry, and in addition to this there was also a war with half of Europe, which lasted with short interruptions since 1792.

The country was exhausted, it needed peace and at least one major ally in Europe.

It is quite logical that this ally became Russia, a country located hundreds of kilometers from France, whose territorial interests had absolutely no overlap with French ones.

In 1799, Suvorov made the Italian and Swiss campaigns.

But why did he do them?

What did the Russian army forget in Italy and Switzerland?

Yes, Suvorov won, but what specific benefit did these victories bring to Russia?

But the losses were obvious: Suvorov lost a third of his army during the campaigns. The political results of Suvorov’s campaigns were nullified by Napoleon as a result of his single victory in the Battle of Marengo in June 1800.

And most importantly: many understood that the Russian-French war was beneficial only to Austria and Britain, but certainly not to Russia and France. The same Italy had long been the scene of the Franco-Austrian wars; each of the two countries wanted to gain a foothold here, but what interest could Russia have in Italy?

All this made the Russian-French alliance long-awaited and quite logical.

Could the campaign to India end in victory?


Napoleon had far-reaching plans for this alliance. And the most ambitious of them was the plan for a joint Russian-French campaign in India, which at that time was already a British colony. Until the mid-18th century, France had small possessions on the west coast of India, but they were lost during the wars with Britain. Now Napoleon hoped to return them.

This plan, according to which 35 Russian soldiers and Don Cossacks and the same number of French were to set off on a joint campaign through Central Asia to India, was enthusiastically accepted by Emperor Paul I. Some historians also argue that the initiative for the campaign itself came from Paul, and not from Napoleon.


Emperor Paul I. Portrait by V. Borovikovsky

Moreover, Pavel apparently did not think much about the difficulties of this campaign, as well as the fact that in Russia there were practically no reliable maps of Central Asia and India.

The time allotted for preparing this campaign was catastrophically small - about one month.

In January 1801, it was decided that there would still be a campaign, and already on February 28, the Don Cossacks moved in the direction of Orenburg, where they were supposed to await the arrival of the French corps.

In an order to Ataman Orlov, Pavel wrote:

"The British are preparing to attack fleet and an army against me and my allies - the Swedes and Danes. I am ready to accept them, but we need to attack them themselves and where their blow may be more sensitive and where they are less expected. India is the best place for this. It takes three months from us to the Indus, from Orenburg, and a month from you there, but only four months. I entrust this entire expedition to you and your army, Vasily Petrovich... All the wealth of India will be your reward for this expedition.”

From the very beginning of the campaign, difficulties arose. At the beginning of March, a thaw had already begun, roads were washed away, and mud made it difficult for artillery to move. Then problems with food arose, since local authorities were not notified of the campaign.


Atamans Denisov, Platov and Orlov - participants in the campaign of 1801

The Cossacks were not destined to reach not only India, but even Orenburg: on the night of March 11-12, Pavel was killed by conspirators in his own palace, and Alexander I, who replaced him on the throne, immediately ordered the Cossacks to return home:

“With all the Cossack regiments following with you on the Secret Expedition, return to the Don and disband them to their homes.”

The Cossacks, who had reached Saratov by this time, turned back. The two million rubles spent on organizing the trip turned out to be a waste of money.


Don Cossacks. Juliusz Kossak

What were the prospects for this campaign if Paul had escaped murder that fateful night?

Could the Cossacks and the French reach India?

The prospects for this campaign were more than illusory. If some of those who set out on the campaign could reach India, then at best every tenth had a chance of returning back. And the chances of winning a complete victory and expelling the British from India with the forces that could get there are almost zero.

Attempts to conquer not India, but Central Asia, which was closer to Russia, had already been made before 1801.

Back in 1717, a 6-strong detachment of Bekovich-Cherkassky undertook a campaign against the Khiva Khanate. Only a few returned. Bekovich himself and almost his entire detachment were killed by the Khiva Khan.

A similar campaign was undertaken at a later time - in 1839–1840. And this campaign also ended in failure. Moreover, most of the dead in the Russian detachment fell not at the hands of the enemy, but from disease and harsh climate, since the campaign was undertaken in winter.

The French’s chances of achieving success in this campaign were also slim: everyone remembers very well how Bonaparte’s campaign in Egypt, closer to France, ended.

Prospects for the further existence of the union


The British were seriously alarmed when they learned about plans for a campaign in India. The main bet was made on eliminating the leaders of France and Russia. They tried to eliminate Napoleon first: in December 1800, there was an attempt on his life in Paris, but Bonaparte survived. And only the assassination attempt on Paul in March 1801 was successful.

“The British missed me in Paris, but hit me in St. Petersburg,”

- Napoleon will say later.
Until the end of his days, he was sure that the campaign in India could end in victory. Already on the island of St. Helena, the former emperor told the British:

“If Paul had lived, you would have already lost India.”

The prospects for the Russian-French alliance were not limited to planning a joint campaign in India. If this alliance had been extended, the further picture of the Napoleonic Wars would have looked completely different.

Austria and Prussia, surrounded on all sides by opponents, would have fallen under the onslaught of Russian-French troops, and Napoleon would have had to share their territory with Russia. Thus, East Prussia, Poland, and part of Austria could have been annexed to Russia already in 1803–1805.

And most importantly: although the prospects for a campaign in India were uncertain, in the case of a Russian-French alliance the chances of the French landing on the British Isles increased noticeably, in which the Russian fleet could help them. In reality, such a landing had been prepared by Napoleon for about a year and did not take place for two reasons - the defeat of the French fleet at Trafalgar and the declaration of war by Russia.

As a result of the latter, he was forced to give up everything and go to fight the Russians. However, the balance of forces would change noticeably if there were a united Russian-French army on the French shore of the English Channel, and a Russian-French fleet in the strait itself.

Under the conditions described above, there is no doubt about the success of the landing in Britain.

Thus, within a few years, Europe would have been divided into Russian and French spheres of influence. Probably, in this case, Russia would have engaged in the conquest of Sweden and Turkey, and France - Spain. Both states would be so strengthened as a result of all this that open war between them would become unlikely.

As we know, in reality, Napoleon decided to attack Russia when it was in a weakened state as a result of previous wars, and the Russian economy was suffering huge losses from the continental blockade. Consolidation in Central Europe would lead to an unprecedented strengthening of the country.

Thus, by extending the alliance with Napoleon, Russia could probably gain much more than it received as a result of defeating him.
58 comments
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  1. +7
    1 March 2024 06: 03
    Again, fantasy is written in the history section, real life history is not a strategy game on a computer.
    1. +3
      1 March 2024 09: 03
      Who isn’t raping history now? Longtime patriots serving the current government write about the War of 1812 as an “existential threat to Russia.” There is a flight of thought about how everyone is surrounding Russia in an attempt to destroy, God forbid everyone.
    2. +1
      1 March 2024 09: 19
      Again they write fantasy in the history section
      It’s not even fantasy, it’s pure bullshit, they’re spinning it...
    3. -5
      1 March 2024 12: 34
      Everything is written correctly. What don't you like? Discussions on the topic of prospects. Or what do you want to read here?
      1. +5
        1 March 2024 12: 38
        Sir, when did you and I drink at the Brudershaft?
        1. -6
          1 March 2024 12: 39
          With whom with you? I'm here alone
          You should, sir, study Russian
          1. +3
            1 March 2024 12: 41
            Well, just talk to yourself and you’ll be fine
            1. -9
              1 March 2024 12: 42
              You are illiterate. That's why it's uninteresting. Farewell
    4. 0
      3 March 2024 09: 57
      And where is the fantasy? Historical facts are presented and the author presented his thoughts on these facts. What would we have discussed if he hadn't done this?
      1. +1
        3 March 2024 10: 42
        What considerations, Napoleon and Paul are dividing Europe into chaos, what an interesting consideration, directly based on, let’s not start, a high school student can express such an idea.
        1. 0
          3 March 2024 21: 47
          Let it be so, but the comrade bases his thoughts on facts. Refute, that’s what the discussion is for. hi
  2. +2
    1 March 2024 07: 20
    Back in 1717, a 6-strong detachment of Bekovich-Cherkassky undertook a campaign against the Khiva Khanate. Only a few returned. Bekovich himself and almost his entire detachment were killed by the Khiva Khan.

    I read it a long time ago, but it seems that the disaster occurred due to the fact that Bekovich believed the Khan’s assurances that the detachment gathered in one place would be impossible to feed and agreed to divide it into six parts, which were killed separately.
    The same Italy had long been the scene of the Franco-Austrian wars, each of the two countries wanted to gain a foothold here, but what interest could Russia have in Italy?

    Tradition. Our policy, both then and in Soviet times, was based on the need to save someone. And not as a justification for obtaining some benefits, but simply for ideological reasons. Only now we have moved away from this.
    1. -2
      1 March 2024 12: 41
      Bad tradition. Noble. But it's not profitable. Moreover, to your own detriment
      1. -1
        1 March 2024 16: 53
        Quote: Valery_Erikson
        Bad tradition.

        Exactly. And then all these saved claims were rolled out to us.
    2. +1
      1 March 2024 18: 24
      Only now we have moved away from this.

      If we remember 2020 and the “help” for sick Italian pensioners and mechanical ventilation in the United States, they did not go away...
      1. 0
        1 March 2024 18: 39
        Quote: Vladimir80
        If we remember 2020 and “help”

        This is a little different. We didn't fight for them.
  3. +6
    1 March 2024 09: 16
    In 1799, Suvorov carried out the Italian and Swiss campaigns. But why did he do them? What did the Russian army forget in Italy and Switzerland?
    Author, haven’t you asked yourself such a question, what would have happened if Suvorov had been allowed to carry out his plan and he would have reached the city of Paris and then the Patriotic War of 1812 would have taken place?
    1. +3
      1 March 2024 10: 21
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      what would have happened if Suvorov had been allowed to carry out his plan and he would have reached the city of Paris and then the Patriotic War of 1812 would have taken place

      The question is whether it would have taken place if Russia had not gotten involved in someone else’s quarrel from the very beginning.
      1. +4
        1 March 2024 10: 31
        But Russia did not get into trouble from the very beginning. They don’t fight with ideas, they don’t fight with guns, Catherine II told her son Paul. She only fought a little with the “Polish Jacobins” when Suvorov ended the war with the Poles in Warsaw
        1. -10
          1 March 2024 12: 36
          Why are you scattering commas everywhere?
        2. 0
          1 March 2024 16: 50
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Catherine II said to her son Paul

          It was only then that he climbed up there.
      2. +5
        1 March 2024 10: 33
        Throughout the history of its existence, Napoleon's Empire lived from the enslavement of conquered peoples, but there were still not enough funds. Therefore, the question is whether it started or not, but when?
        1. -6
          1 March 2024 12: 38
          France has a wagonload of resources. It was the richest country in Europe
          1. +5
            1 March 2024 12: 43
            Quote: Valery_Erikson
            France has a wagonload of resources

            And I want for the whole train request
            1. -7
              1 March 2024 12: 46
              This is not in France. Bonnie had it. Before him, France only responded to aggression. 1st, 2nd coalitions
              1. +9
                1 March 2024 12: 58
                Quote: Valery_Erikson
                This is not in France.

                She has a birthmark!
                They robbed Italy as soon as the fluff flew!
                Quote: Valery_Erikson
                Bonnie had it.

                Who did I write about?
                Or do you think that without the war with Russia he would not have become consul and then emperor?
                Quote: Valery_Erikson
                Before him, France only responded to aggression. 1st, 2nd coalitions

                Yes. The War of the First Coalition began with the Franks invading the Austrian Netherlands.
                The second is that they captured the Papal States.
                However, this is not related to the topic
        2. -2
          1 March 2024 16: 52
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          lived off the enslavement of conquered peoples

          The question is who to rob. All of Europe was plundering its colonies and it would have been more interesting for Napoleon to gain a foothold in India. And Spain had not lost everything yet, so there was something to plunder.
          1. +2
            1 March 2024 17: 00
            Quote: Dart2027
            It would have been more interesting for Napoleon to gain a foothold in India.

            He can eat it, but who will give it to him?)))
            You can’t even dream about India after the failure of the campaign in Egypt. It won't work by sea either. Spanish America was more of a liability by then.
            In general, there are no options.
            1. 0
              1 March 2024 17: 37
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              You can’t even dream about India after the failure of the campaign in Egypt.
              In Egypt there was no possibility of communication by land.
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              Spanish America is more of a burden by then
              In the hands of the Spaniards. Their colonial empire lived solely by selling raw materials, without even trying to develop its own industry. The result was natural. But if they had been in the hands of the French, everything would have changed a lot.
              1. +1
                1 March 2024 17: 45
                Quote: Dart2027
                Their colonial empire lived solely by selling raw materials, without even trying to develop its own industry. The result was natural. And if they end up in the hands of the French

                Well, tell us how the Franks developed industry in their colonies)))
                1. 0
                  1 March 2024 18: 41
                  Quote: Senior Sailor
                  how the Franks developed industry in their colonies

                  Not in the colonies, but at home. It is clear that the colonies were needed as a source of resources, but if they do not have their own industry, then it turns out that the colonies of Spain enriched primarily not the Spaniards, but those to whom they sold raw materials and bought products from them.
                  1. +1
                    1 March 2024 19: 06
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    In Egypt there was no possibility of communication by land.

                    It's the same thing with America...
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Not in the colonies, but at home.

                    I can see how Bonya disbanded the army, dispersed the marshals and began to set up factories... do you yourself believe in such an idyll?
                    1. +1
                      1 March 2024 19: 24
                      Quote: Senior Sailor
                      It's the same thing with America...

                      If it had been possible to deprive England of the resources that it was pumping out of India, and, moreover, to begin the development of the fleet instead of creating a great army, then there would have been a chance of victory.
                      Quote: Senior Sailor
                      how Bonya disbanded the army, dispersed the marshals and began to open factories with factories

                      And he already had them. England and France actively developed industry long before the birth of Napoleon.
                      1. +1
                        2 March 2024 10: 39
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If it were possible to deprive England of resources

                        if at grandma's... well, you know)
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        from India

                        The inaccessibility of India seems obvious even to you.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        He already had them.

                        Were. They made good tapestries. But cloth for army uniforms had to be purchased smuggled from England, violating their own “blockade.”
                      2. 0
                        2 March 2024 12: 32
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        if at grandma's

                        That is, there is nothing to argue?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        India's inaccessibility seems obvious

                        Not obvious from any side. Yes, a campaign like this would hardly have taken place right away, but if properly organized, it would take 5-6 years.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        But cloth for army uniforms had to be purchased smuggled from England

                        Something I haven't heard about this before. Are you saying that there was no industry in France? That it was not a bourgeois country? Seriously.
                      3. 0
                        2 March 2024 12: 49
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to argue?

                        No, this sentence is simply unrealistic from the word at all.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Not obvious from any side.

                        Who wrote this?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        it was not possible to conduct communications by land

                        It's even more so with India...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Something I haven't heard about this before.

                        If you don't know something, it doesn't follow that it didn't happen.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That it was not a bourgeois country?

                        Weird question. No matter how bourgeois, the most massive and cheapest production of woolen fabrics is from the British.
                        And if you are not going to dress soldiers in Lyon velvet and Brabant lace, then you need mass-produced and cheap fabric, which Napoleon lacked. It's a very large army...
                        Let's get back to the topic at hand. Without a fleet, neither England nor its colonies, nor the Spanish ones, can be reached. But everything is bad with the Franks’ fleet, even together with the Spaniards. There is nothing to say about us. What remains is to plunder continental Europe, which will not last long. Who is next?
                        But even if Bonya is not going to conquer us (which is absurd, because he can’t do anything else), he still has to butt heads with England, which is why he actually came up with the continental blockade. And who is Britain's fairly large trading partner and certainly the largest supplier of materials for its fleet?
                        And then he will come to us anyway. Only we will not have allies...
                      4. 0
                        2 March 2024 15: 06
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        No, this sentence is simply unrealistic from the word at all.

                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Who wrote this?
                        Isn’t it who wrote that it’s impossible?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        It's even more so with India...
                        Is there an ocean between Russia and India?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        if you don't know something, it doesn't mean it didn't happen
                        Will there be a source?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Weird question. No matter how bourgeois, the most massive and cheapest production of woolen fabrics is from the British.
                        But it doesn’t follow from this that the others didn’t produce them. It was already possible to provide for your needs.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        But everything is bad with the Franks’ fleet, even together with the Spaniards. There is nothing to say about us.
                        Does Ushakov know? And who was the great naval commander of the British after the death of Nelson? And what prevented the continuation of the construction of the fleet?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        And who is Britain's fairly large trading partner and certainly the largest supplier of materials for its fleet?
                        What prevented you from also trading with France and becoming a supplier for the construction of its fleet?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Only we will not have allies
                        Well, how much did these allies help us in 1812? How many British divisions were there at Borodino?
                      5. +1
                        2 March 2024 15: 51
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Is there an ocean between Russia and India?

                        Much worse. desert, mountains and natives. Find out in what year we reached Kushka, estimate how much time is left until India. Questions with minimal knowledge will disappear on their own.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But it doesn’t follow from this that the others didn’t produce them. It was already possible to provide for your needs.

                        They produced it, but there wasn’t enough for such a large army.
                        In general, no matter how undeveloped the French industry was, it could not compete with the English one.
                        You can read about all the problems with the blockade and smuggling from Tarle.
                        And, yes, the smuggled purchase of cloth for army uniforms was a one-time thing. It is interesting only as a touch characterizing the capabilities of French industrialists. More fabric was needed than they could produce here and now.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Does Ushakov know?

                        The British are a little bit different from the Turks. If you don’t believe me, study the history of the Russian-English War of 1807-1812. In particular, the loss of the battleship Vsevolod
                        Then take an interest in the history of the sale of our ships to the Spaniards. You will have an idea of ​​the quality of construction.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        What prevented you from also trading with France and becoming a supplier for the construction of its fleet?

                        Lack of interest among the French
                        Believe it or not, the Franks had their own forest, their own hemp, and so on. It’s sad, but we couldn’t sell all this stuff to anyone except the British.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, how much did these allies help us in 1812?

                        Very! Money, weapons and so on.
                        As for the number of divisions, count Wellington's army, which diverted Napoleon's very significant forces in Spain.
                      6. 0
                        2 March 2024 16: 47
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Find out in what year we reached Kushka

                        And you will remember where all the country’s forces were sent.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        They produced it, but there wasn’t enough for such a large army.
                        Is this about an army invading Russia? So at that time it was simply an unrealistic colossus. And the rest of the time we got by.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Lack of interest among the French
                        After giving up the fight at sea. If Napoleon had continued building the fleet, the situation would have been completely different.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Very! Money, weapons and so on.
                        Regarding the number of divisions, count Wellington's army
                        That is, what they paid Russia for getting involved in someone else’s war is help? And in Spain the troops would have stood even without Wellington. It was a restless country.
                      7. 0
                        2 March 2024 16: 58
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And you will remember where all the country’s forces were sent.

                        There is such a beast. Logistics. And she doesn’t care where the country’s forces are directed. It won't work anymore anyway.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Is this about an army invading Russia?

                        To be honest, I don’t remember exactly when Bonya stole from himself.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If Napoleon had continued building his fleet

                        Ogreb again. He had ships. There were no sailors.
                        And our resources would not have helped him in any way. How are you going to deliver, say, ship timber to France by land? The British will not give you by sea. Again, these are only ships.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, what they paid Russia for getting involved in someone else’s war is help?

                        And you offer to fight for the Franks for free))
                        Good business! good
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And in Spain the troops would have stood even without Wellington.

                        The question is the quantity and quality of these troops request
                      8. 0
                        2 March 2024 17: 36
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        There is such a beast. Logistics.
                        Eat. And there are also ways to improve it. And the more resources thrown at this matter, the better it goes.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        He had ships. There were no sailors.
                        Did religion not allow you to train new ones? Sailors are not born, they are made.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        And you offer to fight for the Franks for free))
                        Not for free, but for specific things described in the article.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        The question is the quantity and quality of these troops

                        About 50000 experienced soldiers were taken from there and sent to the eastern front, replaced by new recruits.
                      9. 0
                        3 March 2024 10: 58
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And the more resources are thrown at this matter,

                        nine women won't give birth in a month request
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Did religion not allow you to prepare new ones?

                        Judging by the results, the presence of atheism after the WFR laughing
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        for specific things described in the article.

                        This article specifically describes why this trip was a chimera.
                        But there are no special benefits for the Russian Empire in this truly unnecessary undertaking.
                        Look, I can understand the criticism that we got into a war with Napoleon in the first place. They say it would be better to sit at home and mind their own business. There is a certain reason for this (although it still wouldn’t work)
                        But the proposal to fight for Bonaparte’s imperial ambitions, and even in the devil’s hands, without giving a damn about one’s own interests, is completely absurd!
                        There is no meaning, no logic, nothing at all except stupid projection. And even if we imagine for a moment that this dubious enterprise was crowned with success, the result, frankly speaking, will be depressing.
                        To be left alone against France, which has crushed the whole of Europe, is a so-so strategy
                      10. 0
                        3 March 2024 12: 32
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        nine women won't give birth in a month

                        But they will give birth to at least 9 in 9 months. It is clear that such things cannot be done instantly, but with normal preparation the situation will be different.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Judging by the results, the presence of atheism after the WFR
                        That is, there will be no answer.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Look, I can understand the criticism that we got into a war with Napoleon in the first place. They say it would be better to sit at home and mind their own business. There is a certain reason for this (although it still wouldn’t work)
                        But the proposal to fight for Bonaparte’s imperial ambitions, and even in the devil’s hands, without giving a damn about one’s own interests, is completely absurd!
                        You will decide whether you could sit on the sidelines (by the way, I also think this is an ideal option) or you would still have to participate.
                        There’s just one small point - RI and England were already opponents and actually fought a Cold War in Asia. Don’t remember about the War of Shadows? Already in 1812, Russian troops fought with the Persians, who were trained by the British. This also applies to the issue of allies. So the war with France on the side of England was just a more than strange decision.
                      11. 0
                        4 March 2024 11: 13
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there will be no answer.

                        It would be enough for a smart person.
                        Well, what should you do if you don’t know that the Franks at sea even before the WFR were completely inferior to the British. And then, in the fire of the Jacobin terror, the best of those that were were burned. So the French could not train new sailors in any reasonable time. Stupidly no one. Generations are needed here, much like with the movement in Central Asia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Already in 1812, Russian troops fought with the Persians, who were trained by the British.

                        And the Franks have been allies of the Turks throughout history. This doesn't bother you, does it?
                        At least somewhere we had the same interests as the British. Nowhere with France
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You already decide

                        And I decided a long time ago. An attempt to sit out would have resulted in us being left alone with victorious France. Only without money and without allies.
                      12. 0
                        4 March 2024 19: 57
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Well, what should you do if you don’t know that the Franks at sea even before the WFR were completely inferior to the British. And then

                        The opinion about the invincibility of the British at sea comes mainly from the huge amount of adventure literature written by English writers. Yes, they were strong, but they also had defeats, so it was far from complete. But the training of sailors then did not require decades, and the Franco-Russian alliance had much more resources. And in a protracted conflict they are the key factor.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        And the Franks have been allies of the Turks throughout history.
                        We remember how Admiral Ushakov fought as commander of the Russian-Turkish fleet with the French. The British were already enemies at the time of the war with Napoleon - this is a fact.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        An attempt to sit out would have resulted in us being left alone with victorious France. Only without money and without allies.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There’s just one small point - RI and England were already opponents and actually fought a Cold War in Asia. Don’t remember about the War of Shadows? Already in 1812, Russian troops fought with the Persians, who were trained by the British. This also applies to the issue of allies. So the war with France on the side of England was just a more than strange decision.
  4. +3
    1 March 2024 10: 44
    "East is a delicate matter". At my house - you are a guest, outside the home - I will stab you. Without a twinge of conscience. And, by the way, this applies not only to the East. Examples of hypocrisy and betrayal all over the globe are like dirt. There is no need to go back to the depths of centuries.
  5. +3
    1 March 2024 11: 45
    "there is a Russian-French fleet in the strait itself."

    No, that probably wouldn't help. The Franco-Spanish fleet was much stronger than the Franco-Russian one; it all ended with Trafalgar.
    1. -8
      1 March 2024 12: 48
      The strait is small. They would have had time to throw out the troops. And then screw the islanders
      1. 0
        1 March 2024 15: 09
        “The strait is small. They would have had time to drop off the landing force. And then the islanders would be screwed.”

        No.

        After landing, it is necessary to ensure a communication line; without supremacy at sea this was impossible.

        Napoleon did not dare even under the best conditions.
        1. -2
          2 March 2024 14: 13
          Not necessary. They would have found food in the naglia. And when she fell, then the fleet would surrender
  6. +7
    1 March 2024 11: 59
    Such authors will never calm down - they constantly push boring narratives about the dreams of Western Europeans to be friends with Russia.

    So, as it turned out, don’t feed the Germans bread, but let them make friends with Russia (two world wars that were devastating for Russia, started and created on Russian territory by the Germans, genocide against the civilian population). Then Napoleon is a friend and brother, a typical Russophile. He wanted to be friends so much and loved Russians so much that he burned and plundered Moscow, desecrated and plundered everything he could get his hands on, including churches. When they were fleeing, as a sign of great friendship, he gave the order to blow up the Kremlin and St. Basil's Cathedral, which for some reason he stubbornly called the “multi-domed mosque” (?) - see “History of the 1th century” by Lavissa and Rambaud (the French, by the way...). The French sappers were in such a hurry to give up that they did not monitor the combustion of the fuses.
    The Russians in Paris didn’t think of such a thing and didn’t allow the Prussians to use Blucher...

    Both with Napoleon and with Hitler - “fairly” they divided Europe over champagne, hugged, kissed (though, instead of Hitler they sent Ribbentrop, this does not change the essence). And how did it end...
    I’m still waiting for them to write that Khan Batu also adored Russians, loved balalaikas and birches, that’s why he did this...

    Two powerful empires, especially having common borders, will never agree with each other’s existence. One must necessarily be defeated or weakened and subdued.

    PS And there is no need to blame everything on the English - “the Englishwoman is doing shit” (Chekhov). The Englishwoman may be crap, but she also needs to have her own head, and not organize creepy campaigns in India to please Napoleon...

    In the famous painting by Vereshchagin, Napoleon’s French fully confess their love to the Russians...
    1. +4
      1 March 2024 12: 32
      You’ve probably been on the site recently, otherwise you’d know that Batu is Dad, and Mamai, guess for yourself.
    2. -7
      1 March 2024 12: 50
      Napoleon is a friend and brother, a typical Russophile.

      Why did you “love” here? Why are you distorting? He needed a profitable alliance
    3. -3
      1 March 2024 14: 35
      The Russians set fire to Moscow, there was no point in doing this for the French, and it was not without reason that Rostopchin took out all the fire-fighting equipment. And in the picture the shooting is not of civilians, but of arsonists.

      And there were robberies and looting, yes. Only this is a normal thing for a warring army and is not a sign of any special hatred.
      1. +1
        1 March 2024 15: 12
        “The Russians set Moscow on fire, there was no point in the French doing this”

        IMHO, Tolstoy came closest to the truth - leave the wooden city without fire fighting equipment, remove the inhabitants from there so that there is no one to put out the fires, fill it with drunken soldiers and the city will certainly burn. Not literally.

        No one had any sense, especially the residents who lived there.
        1. +1
          1 March 2024 15: 35
          The point was great - to prevent the French from spending the winter there, to force them to retreat along the already devastated Smolensk road. Scorched earth tactics were used both before and after 1812. It was not out of nowhere that Napoleon issued the order to shoot the arsonists.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  7. 0
    4 March 2024 04: 36
    The idea of ​​getting together and robbing someone is not new. But in this case it is a surprisingly stupid adventure. One could at all times expect absolutely any nonsense from our rulers, but why did Napoleon need it? Something doesn't add up here.....
  8. +1
    6 March 2024 11: 54
    Quote: Kmon
    The Russians set fire to Moscow, there was no point in doing this for the French, and it was not without reason that Rostopchin took out all the fire-fighting equipment. And in the picture the shooting is not of civilians, but of arsonists.


    During the Second World War, the Fritzes also, according to their version, did not hang and shoot partisans, but “arsonists and bandits.” All partisan heroes, their commanders are bandits...