Why the idea of ​​​​creating cumulative ammunition based on a rifle-machine-gun cartridge never became a reality

What happens if a cumulative jet is not used to accelerate a bullet, but a shaped charge with a cumulative notch is placed directly into it? Many engineers, including domestic ones, have thought about this.

Moreover, patent offices in different countries regularly receive applications to recognize such a bullet as an invention.

But why is this ammunition still not in demand by any army? There are technical reasons for this.

It’s worth starting with the fact that the armor penetration of modern shaped charges is approximately six diameters of the shaped charge funnel.

The diameter of the sighting-incendiary bullet of the Russian rifle-machine-gun cartridge, on the basis of which most inventors propose to create a cumulative bullet, is 7,92 mm. But it is worth considering that the bullet has a shell whose thickness is 0,96 mm. As a result, the outer diameter of the cumulative funnel will remain a maximum of 6 mm.

But that's not all. It is also worth considering here that the cumulative funnel has its own thickness, which is about 1/30 of its internal diameter. It follows that the latter will ultimately be only 5,6 mm.

However, even despite such a small diameter, provided that the focal length is optimal, the penetration of the cumulative jet of such a bullet could reach 34 mm. But there is one more nuance. In this case, the focal length should also be the same 34 mm.

At the same time, the entire length of the aforementioned sighting bullet is 39 mm. Thus, a shaped charge with a crater mouth located 34 mm from the point of contact with the target simply would not fit in it. Moreover, if you increase the length of the bullet by at least 2 mm, due to its too long length, at 39 mm and already at the limit, it will cease to be stabilized by rotation.

Finally, if, for reasons of minimal modification of the standard bullet, the cumulative funnel is placed 13,5 mm from the front edge, then its armor penetration will be only 21 mm. And then, this indicator will be achieved only if you simply lean the bullet against the armor.

If it flies out of a rifle barrel, then the first thing that will reduce armor penetration is its rotation. Ultimately, according to the inventors' calculations, the penetration of such a cumulative jet will be only 9,3 mm.

Comments

[pettabyte]

But why?
Rotation will interfere, breaking through is already normal, but with those dimensions and dimensions, it will turn out no less.
Even 5.45 they say the branches tend to ricochet into God knows where, and these will also explode.

[faterdom]

Dead end branch.
Once upon a time, in the memoirs of an American, “The Steel Rat Saves the World” and “Bill the Hero of the Galaxy,” I read that a bullet made of animatter is much cooler, which annihilates everything at the point of impact, with the effect of a microthermonuclear explosion.
True, there is a disadvantage here (who suddenly decides to shoot): you cannot hit anyone at close range, and especially shoot in a closed room.
However, our lads in the holy nineties could often make a fool of themselves with Mukha or RPG 7 from a closed, tinted Cherokee jeep - one shot - everyone flew out of all the doors, including the rear ones.

[Yuras_Belarus]

The Sapphire grenade launcher, which uses a system that allows it to be fired from a closed room, has been successfully tested in Belarus. Look on the Internet for details - I’m not an expert on grenade launchers.

[the same doctor]

I don’t know a specific solution, but blocking the jet or directing it to the side (forward) of the shooter means receiving full recoil and losing the main advantage of the RPG - recoillessness.
The obvious solution is to focus on the rear wall to compensate for the rollback, reduce the expulsion charge by half and tightly seal the rear hole of the grenade launcher...

[faterdom]

There is a specific solution: launch the grenade mechanically. A certain Stallone shot a grenade from a bow; you can’t shoot a grenade from just any car. It can be from a crossbow or a speargun.

[the same doctor]

no matter how you start, the rollback will not decrease. At the same speed... Even if you use silent cartridge technology.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: also a doctor

The obvious solution is to focus on the rear wall to compensate for the rollback, reduce the expulsion charge by half and tightly seal the rear hole of the grenade launcher...

There has long been a solution - countermass. This is when a “bag”/wad with something like foil confetti is placed behind the expelling charge and, accordingly, the jet stream knocks this wad back, destroying it, and the confetti extinguishes and disperses the stream, so you can shoot from the room from behind, but not at point-blank range of course, the wall.
Real sample - "Panzerfaust-3"

[the same doctor]

Only effective managers could come up with cumulative ammunition in a rifle caliber.
An effective solution would be depleted uranium cores.

[shikin]

The cumulative jet should not be used to accelerate a bullet

- Does the author understand what he’s writing about? The bullet is accelerated by the combustion of gunpowder, and not by the detonation of an explosive, especially a cumulative one. The detonation of an explosive will simply crush the bullet, not accelerate it.

[militarist63]

OF COURSE HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND! And I wrote about it right in the title:

Why the idea of ​​​​creating cumulative ammunition based on a rifle-machine-gun cartridge never became a reality

Only someone who doesn’t understand what he’s writing about can invent some kind of “rifle-machine-gun” cartridge! This cartridge has always been and is called exclusively a RIFLE CARTRIDGE!

[Nikolaevich I]

VO has become boring, gentlemen! Boring ! Articles appear more and more often that are “a hundred years old on the Internet”! I have read this article on YouTube more than once; and they offer it to me again. Like a new product! Aren't there more interesting topics? Eat ! And I know them very well! But they are in no hurry to appear at VO! Because it remains to be assumed that VO is experiencing a shortage of writing “provision”! And one can only guess about the reasons for this! Perhaps intelligent authors are now in short supply! Is it possible that VO has “no pennies”... pay smart authors decently!

[fif21]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Aren't there more interesting topics? Eat ! And I know them very well! But they are in no hurry to appear at VO! Because it remains to be assumed that VO is experiencing a shortage of writing “provision”!

You have 0 publications! Please us with problematic articles.

[Altmann]

The question is old, but the idea is not dead. I remember how my friend and I theoretically discussed this possibility in school (military) and were convinced of it. that a HEAT projectile for a rifle caliber had not yet been discovered. A penetrating or explosive bullet upon impact (soft) will have at least a killing factor. I am very disappointed, or my student thoughts here sounded like childish nonsense. But the day will come...

[Monster_Fat]

In the 90s of the last century, the Italians advertised cumulative cartridges for 12- and 16-gauge shotguns.

[fif21]

Quote: Altmann

I am very disappointed, or my student thoughts here sounded like childish nonsense.

Sound thoughts and quite convincing conclusions. But the realities of life. Look at the statistics, how many died (wounded) from small arms, how many from mine fragmentation. Your proposal makes the cartridge very expensive for mass production. And sniper weapons have taken the path of increasing caliber and distance.

[bunta]

Even if high explosives are placed in a rifle bullet without any funnel, they cannot be caused to detonate due to the small critical volume and the “detonation spot”. For this reason, “explosive” or “explosive” explosives based on high explosives have not yet been created. “Explosive”, which is sometimes mentioned in conversations or in the press, refers to targeting-incendiary ones, which do not use an explosive effect based on detonation, but the combustion of a chemical mixture that produces a smoke or brightly flaming flash.

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: bunta

Even if high explosives are placed in a rifle bullet without any funnel, they cannot be caused to detonate due to the small critical volume and the “detonation spot”. For this reason, “explosive” or “explosive” explosives based on high explosives have not yet been created. “Explosive”, which is sometimes mentioned in conversations or in the press, refers to targeting-incendiary ones, which do not use an explosive effect based on detonation, but the combustion of a chemical mixture that produces a smoke or brightly flaming flash.

Take an interest in the Raufoss Mk211 cartridge.

[bunta]

RX51-PETN or RDX Comp A4
Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (pentaerythritol tetranitrate, tetranitropentaerythritol, PETN, pentrite, niperite) is a chemical compound (CH2ONO2)4C. A powerful high explosive. Shock sensitive. In its pure form it is used to equip detonator caps

In this case, it works as a high-power detonator cap. But the cartridge itself is not cumulative or even explosive, but an ordinary armor-piercing incendiary.

[Romario_Argo]

Why is this ammunition still not in demand by any army?

because until now there has been no mass use of ceramic armor plates in SIBZ
with the advent of more or less mass-produced exoskeletons with ceramic armor plates over 10 mm, cumulative cartridges will also appear
The 9-mm silicon carbide plate has a protection class of Br 6 - guaranteed to hold 12,7x108
A 30-mm plate will only be burned through by cumulative ammunition
Apparently later there will also be a spaced reservation
the eternal confrontation between shield and sword

[75 Sergey]

9,3 mm for armor steel?
What is the thickness of the body armor plate?