Chinese banks and anti-Russian sanctions. Some aspects of the problem

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Chinese banks and anti-Russian sanctions. Some aspects of the problem

February 7 news The news feeds were full of reports that the Chinese Chouzhou Commercial Bank, which is quite significant for settlements of imports to Russia, stopped all operations (both in yuan-rubles and in US dollars) due to fears of secondary sanctions.

Chouzhou Commercial Bank is far from the main bank in mutual settlements with China, whose turnover at the end of 2023 amounted to a record $240 billion, but the bank is truly significant, since, according to various estimates, up to $30 billion passes through it.



Of course, there will not be a logistics collapse, as some publications initially began to write, but there is no point in denying the problem, because remaking the routing of more than 10% of financial flows is a really difficult task. Moreover, after the celebration of the Chinese New Year, similar issues will arise with a number of other financial institutions in the Middle Kingdom.

Notifications about the possible suspension of settlements and increased checks during transactions were sent back in December by ten Chinese credit institutions. Four state-owned banks also reported additional control measures. This is already serious.

It would seem that payments for goods and services in dollars and euros have already been declining over the past year and a half, while the share in yuan and rubles has been growing, why, in this case, should artificially slow down the turnover in national currencies, especially under pressure from the United States?

Firstly, we need to consider this process through the prism of general sanctions mechanisms in relation to our country. If you cannot pay in dollars, then you can pay at a premium to the market in national currency, and the goods can be reissued three times, and it is reasonable to believe that the Russian logistician has learned to do this well. But there is a nuance.

It lies in the fact that usually, not only the buyer and the logistician play a role in bypassing the sanctions or, to be honest, the tariff conditions in general, but also the one who is usually forgotten - the seller himself.

The easier it is to mix shipments of goods, the more convenient it is to re-register cargo. Pour five batches into one grain bin under one contract and in the same spirit. But the more complex the product range, the more complex this process.

And here a lot depends on the interest of all three parties: the seller, the logistician and the buyer. However, if someone wants, even grain or crushed stone can be identified by region of origin. There would be a desire.

True, usually no one wants this, since all three parties are aimed at making money even under sanctions. In general, if those same European, Japanese, and Taiwanese suppliers did not have their own firm intention to circumvent sanctions and earn profits, our parallel import deliveries would become much more complicated and costly.

The whole question was how much the lobbying and financial resources of the seller could allow him to maneuver between the bureaucratic norms of the sanctions packages.

This process would have been final in any case, and today its opposite shore is already visible, since the American and European bureaucracy began to demand the use of full-fledged restrictions on the manufacturer as a copyright holder when exporting.

You, as a manufacturer who owns the brand (conditionally) “Selo Korovkino,” can send to customs offices all over the world a list of companies to which you can resell and supply goods in a given territory.

You can send out a request to prohibit the release of cargo going to a specific country. Or impose restrictions on the entire brand, on part of its range. These are the same rules of the WTO, which almost all countries are members of.

It’s easy to guess that, depending on the position and benefits of the seller, you can block cross-border transactions with the product, or you can bypass the sanctions together with it by “working a little” with letters on brands and nomenclature, then the logistician will “finish it”.

What if the seller decided that he was determined to give up all these tricks and was willing to actually sacrifice a distribution channel in order to avoid more complex problems?

In this case, for reliability, notifications with a complete list of brands and items will also be sent to banks that carry out international payments. Not only will customs check labels and declarations with certificates, but the financial operator will also get involved.

It is easier for raw material producers to get out of this epic; it is easier for them to do it technically, and lobbying resources are essentially transnational. But with the supply of the same electronics, everything is much more complicated, since each product has a lot of its own markings and patent solutions.

You can move lemons, but you can’t just move Dell laptops and reprint documents. No matter how resourceful a logistician is, without the consent (sometimes tacit) of the seller, he turns from a re-export operator into a smuggler. And this Dell does not matter where it is made, even if it is in China, the copyright holder is not in Beijing.

You will (probably) be able to return the re-export cargo, albeit with problems, but the contraband will be sent to the confiscation warehouse and returned to the copyright holder if he specifically claims rights to it.

And this is exactly the same for China, and for Nigeria, and for Turkey, and for Kazakhstan. Banks, for obvious reasons, do not want to participate in this at all. Turkish and Chinese are no exception. That’s why operations stop even in national currencies; the issue here is no longer the currency of payment.

Strangely enough, it’s not even the sanctions, whether primary or secondary, that de facto smuggling cannot be missed and will simply return the money marked “dubious purpose of the operation.” There will be frequent returns - they will raise the question of blocking the account and simply notify about it.

The author first wrote back in July 2022 (“Kazakhstan and the policy of sanctions. What lessons should we learn?), the second time - in March 2023 (“Realities and prospects of “parallel import”).

The author did not cite world discoveries there, but it was emphasized that we will still have to face these problems across the entire line of countries that work within the framework of the WTO treaty system. It will be even more difficult with Turkey, since it is bound by bilateral agreements with the customs system of the European Union.

And there are only three strategic and systemic options here, used together or separately.

The first, the most logical and the most theoretical, as practice shows, is to do your own thing at home. But even inveterate optimists must agree that there are some temporary problems with this.

The second option is to create a financial corporation in the national jurisdiction of the partner country, which will purposefully work to circumvent restrictions and mainly in those same national currencies.

For example, Iran generally went deeper here. Thus, The Financial Times was surprised to learn that the English Lloyds Bank and a division of another bank, already Spanish, Santander Bank provided accounts to British companies, but owned by the Iranian state-owned Petrochemical Commercial Company. Is this possible? If necessary, everything is possible, the question is how much closer this will bring to solving the problem as a whole.

Russian sinologist N. Vavilov, for example, proposes that domestic corporations buy out the Chinese financial structure in full or in shares to ensure settlements, but still these schemes are more applicable to raw materials rather than to finished high-tech products. Here, not only impersonal goods and financial transfers move, but technological products, where everything is marked: both inside and outside. It is no longer possible to buy a share in Chinese customs, but we have a lot of such “complex” imports.

The third option, which outwardly seems monstrously complicated, is the assembly in one place and national jurisdiction of a part of the composite product, its certification, similar assembly in another jurisdiction, in a third, and then in the same China, and maybe in the EAEU country - assembly the final product, again, under a separate patent and certificate, packaging, registration and import.

It would seem easier to build your own from scratch, but in the present conditions it is still unclear how much import in spare parts and equipment needs to be brought, and the import of components in the future will also be subject to the restrictions of the copyright holder.

Here, it would probably be appropriate to quote from a previous article.

“Part of this complex process is the formation in a number of countries of a kind of “shops for assembling strange structures.” These strange designs will be patented, but sometimes even logically incompatible elements received from the “first echelon” countries.

Relatively speaking, the company will produce a two-legged table with a robotic matrix display and a set of other unknown functionality, and similar things, which will be registered under the appropriate codes, will be exported to our homeland or to our neighbors, with the goal of getting to us through re-export or, again, in transit to go through the procedures indicated above.

Now the reader can already call the author not very normal. Perhaps, but why is no one confused in some countries by the presence of products that are technologically complex, patented, but have no practical functionality at all? And this is how our eastern neighbors bypass American patent law, even without any sanctions.”

And here we also run into a certain inertia of thinking not only of the state apparatus, but also of the logistics business as such, since it is customary to transfer everything to a documentary basis, “re-register”, well, not in this jurisdiction, but in the third, fourth, fifth, etc. ... And soon it won’t work out like that anymore - this mill grinds slowly, but it grinds and grinds, and the space for such design and documentary work is getting narrower and narrower.

However, there is another problem.

After all, the Chinese financial sector has significantly increased lending to operations in Russia over the past year – fourfold. But lending for what? Shopping your goods.

Yes, Beijing is gradually replacing dollars and euros in our circulation, but such production, as described above, is not profitable for the Chinese from the point of view of systemic work. There is no point in allocating resources for such production for the Chinese, just as there is no particular benefit to helping us systematically in purely re-export operations on goods from Western Europe, Japan and the USA.

Not because “the wrong partners”, it’s just that for Beijing this is not a point of investment in domestic production, but only additional interest income on a revolving loan for trade operations. It may not be out of place at the moment, but it is problematic for the banking sector, taking into account WTO norms. In the end, China is definitely not going to leave the WTO.

So, of the four re-export routes: the Baltics, Turkey, China, Central Asia, we don’t have many viable options left. And no other way than the described complex scheme of cross-production and complex re-export with subsequent assembly is visible in the future.

The most important thing is that the time will come and even components will have to be obtained in this way. In the meantime, the main resource is that Western manufacturers themselves are interested in supplying us with spare parts for their equipment or finished products by any workaround, but they impose tougher and tougher prices on them.

So the news about the tightening of sanctions regimes from even countries that are generally neutral or politically close to us should not be surprising. It’s just that sooner or later we will have to work on the third option.
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  1. +9
    February 12 2024
    but they surround them more and more harshly.
    And then it will get even worse...And friend China caves in....
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +9
      February 12 2024
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      And then it will get even worse...And friend China caves in...

      And they spoil their own people no less, even though there is a war with the West.
      The Federal Security Service (FSB) conducted searches in the Federal Air Transport Agency in a criminal case regarding the illegal withdrawal of almost 60 planes and helicopters from Russian jurisdiction. Izvestia reported this with reference to sources.
      According to the publication, starting in March 2022, dozens of aircraft were sold, including to unfriendly countries, after which three helicopters took part in hostilities on the side of Ukraine, and Il-76 aircraft delivered cargo with the transponders turned off in order to hide their routes, indicated a source close to law enforcement agencies.
      1. +1
        February 12 2024
        And they spoil their own people no less, even though there is a war with the West.

        Well, who cares... and they are not our own... they are just foreign agents...
    3. +7
      February 12 2024
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      And then it will get even worse...And friend China caves in...

      Calling China a friend is a no-brainer. After WWII, this is perhaps the only country that attacked the USSR. At best, they are fellow travelers.
      Let's admit honestly, Russia is not the poorest country in the world and the first in Europe. Why do various trash have the right to use currency without backing it with anything of their own, but only at the expense of European partners, while the ruble, which can be backed not only with precious metals, but also with many other assets, is considered paper?
      The earth is not filled with yuan alone. Siluanov needs to be sent somewhere with Nabiullina and this Central Bank - a stick in the wheels of the Russian economy. Change something in the banking system. Make control over the use of export funds. Introduce the necessary taxes and get rid of fiscal policy towards the manufacturer...
      * * *
      For now we are at the level of that Ivanushka who hopes for a pike, or a frog princess, and strives to lie down on the stove.
      1. +8
        February 12 2024
        Calling China a friend is a no-brainer.

        Why, in fact, should China be a friend to a country that just recently supported US sanctions against others? Iran, North Korea, etc.? Does he still support it now? Which was silent or supported America's invasions of unwanted countries? Did you follow the instructions of the IMF, PACE, and other Western institutions of colonization? Whose leadership still includes openly pro-Western liberals? Destroyed its industry, education, medicine to please the West? Whose leader, a few years ago, openly proclaimed that the main goal is to become part of the West, and we must be equal to him in everything? And so on and so forth, the list can go on for a long time...

        And suddenly - on you, it turns out we are enemies... Hmm. Where is the guarantee that tomorrow our bourgeois will not come to an agreement with the Westerners again and return everything to normal? Evo, how are they still conducting some kind of negotiations, stirring up something, continuing to sell strategic goods to enemies, waging a war in some strange way? If you were the Chinese, would you trust such types? I personally would not. So they are being careful...
        1. 0
          February 12 2024
          You might think that China itself has not been part of the West since Reagan until recently... It is exactly the same weather vane.
          1. -2
            February 12 2024
            Nothing like that. The Chinese Communist Party simply used the West for its own purposes. Which I have never changed - the building of socialism.
            1. +2
              February 12 2024
              Communists in China are only in the name of the party. The socialist course was abandoned there a long time ago, even after the death of Mao, and now it is an ordinary capitalist country. Which until recently was friends with the West.

              Who used whom is another big question. The West allowed China to develop with its investments not for pretty eyes, but so that it would help destroy the main threat - the USSR, and it coped with this task; had to keep a bunch of troops on the Chinese border.
              1. -2
                February 12 2024
                This is because you operate with liberal propaganda, instead of reading the documents of the Chinese themselves. But Comrade Xi made everything very clear at the last congress. By the way, I was practically following Lenin.

                In order to build socialism, we need a proletariat. Mao tried to implement it in a thoroughly peasant country, but naturally nothing came of it. And for there to be a proletariat, an industrial base is needed. And to have it, you need investments and technologies... Which the PRC very successfully took from the West...

                And Comrade Xi postulates - for today the basis for building socialism has been created. The base is not socialism itself! They never declared it. Now there is both industry and the proletariat. But somewhere from 2025, the PRC will begin precisely the initial stage of construction. Again - back to basics.

                What is unclear here? They never gave up on their goals.
                1. +5
                  February 12 2024
                  Well, if you seriously think that China with all its billionaires will now begin to build socialism... Blessed is he who believes.
                  1. -3
                    February 12 2024
                    Why should I believe you and not the official position of the leadership of the strongest economic power on the planet?? belay

                    Do you seriously consider yourself more authoritative than Comrade Xi? what
                    1. 0
                      February 12 2024
                      Quote: paul3390
                      Why should I believe you and not the official position of the leadership of the strongest economic power on the planet??

                      I am more impressed by the position of the Chinese leadership.
              2. 0
                February 13 2024
                China is not part of the West. This is a separate civilization. China is using it to achieve its goals. Us too. But, unlike the West, we are their neighbors and, if things are going badly, we can bluff a military alliance together. For the West, so as not to push too hard... In reality, of course, there can be no union.
        2. +4
          February 12 2024
          .
          I personally would not. So they are being careful.

          Trust in politics... it’s only our president who is being deceived by everyone... but in general he essentially doesn’t exist... there is an economic, political interest... For now, it is beneficial for China to use Russia as an instrument in cooperation with the USA.. For now, the USA and CHINA they won’t resolve their economic differences.. and when they decide, they can merge... and join the sanctions.. then again some will shout... that the damned Chinese deceived..
    4. +8
      February 12 2024
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      And friend China caves in...

      It does not bend, it bends, everything is in favor of the western wind. Profit and nothing but profit...

      To Article:
      The first, the most logical and the most theoretical, as practice shows, is to do your own thing at home. But even inveterate optimists must agree that there are some temporary problems with this.

      For more than thirty years there have been “temporary problems”... That’s why these problems are the whole point. On the Soviet foundation, of course, although not a world leader, it was quite possible to walk among serious averages. There were national breakthroughs, a sales market, and partners on all continents...
      The other two "solutions" are only temporary...
      1. 0
        February 12 2024
        doing EVERYTHING in your country with a population of 150 million is unrealistic.
        and a billion too...
        everything serious and complex is designed for the global market (at least 4-6 billion out of 8-9 billion of the total population of the planet)...

        and without this, you can keep your niches, no more... otherwise counting on normal international trade.
        no slogans can push all the production chains into one country...
        1. +1
          February 12 2024
          Iran, and before it the USSR, somehow do/did almost everything themselves.
        2. 0
          February 13 2024
          Exactly. Few people understand this, especially here)
    5. +3
      February 12 2024
      And friend China caves in...

      And he will cave in.. don’t go to a fortune teller here.. they don’t have such big differences with the United States.. purely economic bargaining, where China is trying to firmly push through its interest.. but the United States knows how to bargain too.. this is “our” man, a generous soul. .and gas for pennies and timber..
    6. +2
      February 12 2024
      With China, the word “friend” must always be put in quotation marks. And what's the point in blaming them? The Chinese shirt is closer to their body.
    7. +2
      February 12 2024
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      And friend China caves in...

      why would he act contrary to the interests of his citizens and companies?
      everyone will bend... miracles don’t happen... just like “friends” in the form of states and other structures...
  2. +3
    February 12 2024
    This is China's "ally". And he is also, as they call it now, a “situational” travel companion.
    1. +6
      February 12 2024
      This is China's "ally"

      There is no need to go to extremes, either a friend for life or a sworn enemy.
      You have to do your job, go towards your goal, it’s good to have a travel companion (you need to work on having more of them), but you shouldn’t swear your love to the grave either.
  3. +10
    February 12 2024
    It’s just that sooner or later we will have to work on the third option.
    So what to do? But we have the fifth largest economy in the world.
    1. +6
      February 12 2024
      Quote: parusnik
      So what to do? But we have the fifth largest economy in the world.

      Yeah ... wassat And the most expensive Geraniums and French perfumes in the world...
      Here on Zvezda they review life in Iran for several Sundays. Our officials should be sent there on a business trip to “clear their minds”...
    2. +2
      February 12 2024
      In fact, in conditions of confrontation and the need for a technological breakthrough, this is the only reliable option. China got its hands on US technology in precisely this complicated way. There are no longer and never will be simple solutions.
      1. +2
        February 12 2024
        China got its hands on US technology in just such a complicated way.

        Do you think that we will steal technology from China))) We can’t even get to their marketplaces... they won’t let us in... and you technology...
        1. +3
          February 12 2024
          And here a lot depends on what is meant by the concept of technology interception. There are three steps: repurchase and/or spy acquisition of the technological scheme, re-export and subsequent reengineering, not only of finished products, but also of components of the equipment on which the products are manufactured. All three processes are part of one big program, which involves different services, diplomacy, and business. Whether they let you in or not, it all depends on goal setting. We simply don’t like complex schemes, there is little “sticking” in the moment, you have to think a lot, etc.
          1. 0
            February 12 2024
            We simply don’t like complex schemes, there is little “sticking” in the moment, you have to think a lot, etc.

            In this chain and schemes, you do not take into account the fact that this is very unprofitable for the Chinese and they know all the schemes... because they are very experienced...
            In my opinion, there are two reliable working schemes:
            1. Industrial espionage
            2. Own scientific school
            Moreover, if you don’t have your own scientific base...and techies...then industrial espionage won’t be very useful...
            For this reason, it is necessary to produce our own engineers and designers... and this is not a quick task, given the fact that young people do not really want to live in such a country and, when the opportunity and qualifications arise, they tend to leave... so the climate is still needed in the country. .
            An integrated approach... do you think people who have been in power for 30 years are capable of this?
            1. +3
              February 12 2024
              I am just writing that it is not profitable for the Chinese to help us by re-exporting Western sophisticated products and equipment. Moreover, under WTO standards, they will narrow this shop for us to a thin stream. All the above diagrams are work with the so-called. “third countries”, by the way, as well as joint productions with Iran, as a reader from Iran hints to us in this forum thread. And so, I agree that without a scientific school, knowledge of “drawings” will not help.
              Are you capable of an integrated approach? To be honest, it's hard to believe.
              1. +1
                February 12 2024
                Are you capable of an integrated approach? To be honest, it's hard to believe.

                But I can’t believe it at all...there were some hopes before...but the latest events have finally opened my eyes hi
                1. +2
                  February 12 2024
                  Well what can I say. As a kind of illustration.

                  In the parameters of the currency balance for 2023, the Central Bank was unable to identify where $9,9 billion (almost a trillion rubles or 3% of federal budget revenues) disappeared, placing this amount in the “errors and omissions” column, which, in the context of digitalization and online tracking movement of financial resources looks like an unacceptable anachronism. A “hole” of this size has no precedents, and according to experts, it could have formed due to the shadow criminal outflow of capital, which is only possible with the complicity of regulatory authorities, as has happened many times in the past. 20% of the balance of payments surplus either turned out to be fictitious or was withdrawn in an unknown direction. @russica2


                  Please note that this is not written by some grant-eating “leftist” source, but by a completely respectable and truly “systemic” TG channel Nezygar.
          2. 0
            February 12 2024
            Quote: nikolaevskiy78
            . We simply don’t like complex schemes, there is little “sticking” in the moment, you have to think a lot, etc.

            This is our problem, Comrade Stalin loved complex schemes and, by the beginning of the Second World War, managed to create an industry independent of the West, thanks to complex schemes.
  4. +8
    February 12 2024
    It’s sad, of course, but on the other hand, why would communist China hand-feed oligarchic capitalism in Russia? If everything went for the benefit of the people, housing and communal services, pensions, scholarships, etc., but again everything will be transferred abroad and they will set up villas, yachts, and lose money in Monaco. bully
  5. +3
    February 12 2024
    The ruling class of Russia makes a big deal of the disguised “brothers” and does not inspire confidence among either the communists or the capitalists.

    The Russian land cannot give birth to its own Bill Gates or Elon Musks....
  6. 0
    February 12 2024
    the problem is not in China, it is in the “secondary” sanctions
    just saw problems for us in Turkey
    and this is just the beginning unless we create a "new scheme"
  7. 0
    February 12 2024
    The law of the capitalist jungle says: ...every man for himself! ... The law of the capitalist jungle states that the life of a cub can be redeemed!
  8. 0
    February 12 2024
    The only country that you can be sure will not stab you in the back, especially in favor of the West, is Iran, which has already proven this by rejecting the Biden offer to lift all the sanctions against Iran in exchange for total abandonment of Russia and participating in anti-Russian sanctions. Responded that Iran does not allow foreign wishes to influence its policy with friendly nations or otherwise.
    They (the west) were particularly frustrated by their inability to stop Iranian drones and begged for stopping the delivery, and they weren't happy about Iran's gas turbine exports to Russia, which had higher capacity and a cheaper price than their Siemens counterpart, which removed German leverage over Russia.
    It's worth remembering that Iranian gas turbines were the Russian first choice in the first place over Siemens, but they stopped their cooperation after Trump's withdrawal of nuclear agreement (western free market, my ass).
    Iran also prevented the Russian airliner from being grounded for lack of spare parts by sending Iranian-made spare parts and jet engine components such as single crystal blades that not even China can produce despite many years of trying.
    It is for these reasons that western technology tracker ASPI placed Iran among the top five aircraft engine producers and the top ten technology superpowers in 42 critical technologies, something not many people know in Russia or anywhere else for that matter.
    This is due to the fact that 96% of the entire world's broadcasting and news organizations are owned by Jewish Zionists, and they are working round the clock to convince you that a nation with space programs and a robotic team that repeatedly won the champion title in the robotic world cup (football) in an international competition of all able nations, including teams from the US, and China is a backward nation.
    Unfortunately, until Russia liberates itself from the Zionist tentacle, they aren't allowed to benefit from Persian potential, and Iranian demonization will continue.

    The only country you can be sure won't stab you in the back, especially in favor of the West, is Iran, which has already proven this by rejecting Biden's offer to lift all sanctions on Iran in exchange for a complete abandonment of Russia. and participation in anti-Russian sanctions. Answered that Iran does not allow foreign desires to influence its policies towards friendly countries or otherwise.
    They (the West) were especially frustrated by their inability to stop Iranian drones and begged to stop supplies, and they were unhappy with the export of Iranian gas turbines to Russia, which had higher power and a cheaper price than their Siemens counterpart, which eliminated German influence on Russia.
    It's worth remembering that Iranian gas turbines were Russia's first choice over Siemens, but they ended their partnership after Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal (Western free market, my ass).
    Iran also prevented a Russian airliner from being grounded due to a lack of spare parts by sending Iranian-made spare parts and jet engine components such as monocrystalline blades that even China cannot produce despite years of trying.
    It is for these reasons that Western technology tracker ASPI has placed Iran among the top five aircraft engine manufacturers and among the top ten technology superpowers for 42 critical technologies, something few people know about in Russia or anywhere else for that matter.
    This is because 96% of all the world's broadcasting and news organizations are owned by Jewish Zionists, and they are working around the clock to convince you that a nation with a space program and a team of robots has won the World Cup of Robotics title multiple times ( football) in the international competition of all capable countries, including teams from the USA, and China is a backward country.
    Unfortunately, until Russia frees itself from the Zionist tentacle, it will not be allowed to benefit from Persian potential, and Iranian demonization will continue.
    1. -3
      February 12 2024
      You are mistaken, Russia does not need either turbines or monocrystalline blades, because both are available, and even to choose from + they have long since begun to build additional factories in this area. If you want to interact, look for other areas of interaction.
      1. -1
        February 12 2024
        Russian RT reported that you probably next are going to say Russia do not import cars or drones; do you even bother to look at screenshots of Russian news saying that they found better alternatives than Germany, which I sent with my comment, or RT says Russian airliners are going to be grounded and Iran rushed to rescue soon after?
        Russia does have some gas turbine capability, but not at a high-capacity gas turbine level, and it is nowhere near Iran's capabilities. Their estimate is that in 2035, Russia would be able to become self-sufficient in this area, which means only ten years, which is unlikely, but I wish from the bottom of my heart all the achievements for Russia because it is beneficial to have strong and capable friends, but it seems to me that you look at zero-sum games.
        No country is producing everything, and Iran was forced into this position to survive, but Russia was trying to become a westerner (naively), so it intergraded itself to their market.


        Russia's RT reported that next time you'll probably say Russia doesn't import cars and drones; Did you even bother to look at the screenshots of Russian news saying they found better alternatives than Germany that I posted with my comment, or RT reporting that Russian airliners will be grounded and Iran will soon rush to the rescue?
        Russia does have some capacity to produce gas turbines, but not at the level of high-power gas turbines, and they are far from Iran's capabilities. According to their estimates, in 2035 Russia will be able to become self-sufficient in this area, that is, in just ten years, which is unlikely, but with all my heart I wish Russia all the achievements, because it is beneficial to have strong and capable friends, but it seems to me that you look at zero-sum games.
        No country produces everything and Iran was forced into this position to survive, but Russia tried to Westernize (naively) so it joined their market.
        1. 0
          February 12 2024
          Russia in the USSR was the leader in turbine manufacturing and stop bragging about the technologies stolen from Siemens; Russia developed and produced them itself until Siemens entered the Russian market thanks to mediocre liberals. Now Russia is experiencing temporary difficulties due to the fact that Siemens turbines were shoved into all the new large-scale projects, but at once they were gone, neither turbines nor spare parts! To complete the construction of gas-liquefying plants for Novotek, it was necessary to urgently develop megawatt electric motors instead of turbines, because in Russia there are such competencies, and now they are urgently organizing the production of turbines in the size of 100 - 180 megawatts, by the way, the first copies have already been put into trial operation. Such turbines should be completely prohibited from being imported into Russia so that they do not interfere with the production of our own. As for Iran, this production there will soon wither due to lack of demand...
          1. +1
            February 12 2024
            It won't wither away. Iran has an excess of natural gas and a shortage of electricity. They still have to build and build. But we need to build our own turbines, who can argue. But it is also strange to deny that the Persians have made serious progress in many industries; after all, they are demonstrating very decent results, especially since they have been living under sanctions for decades.
          2. -1
            February 13 2024
            Quote: Sergey3
            stop boasting

            calm down. You were obviously so excited that you didn't seem to be able to read my entire comment. I know this because if you did, you would know that I specifically mentioned that Russia entered the Western market at the expense of losing its own industry.
            and when this happened, its domestic products had to compete with the world market, even for Russian consumers who began to use Western products instead of domestic industries.
            I didn't say anything to imply that Russians lack intelligence or anything else that would justify your reaction.
            No one (except the ignorant and arrogant Westerners) could accuse the nation that sent the first man into space of being unwise.
            I sincerely ask you to read my comments again, but this time, keeping in mind that I was not bragging, I was simply trying to prove that the Persians are very different from what they say in the Zionist-dominated media, and our cooperation is beneficial .

            Quote: Sergey3
            technologies stolen from Siemens

            Under intellectual property laws, you can legally register a design under your name if you can demonstrate that you made changes to improve its performance. Iran has successfully done this by creating the most efficient gas turbine in its class in the world, albeit by a few percent, but I am sure that in turbine efficiency even one tenth of a percent is important and difficult to achieve.
            This is why Iran has a patent to issue licenses to others, just like Russia.
            The MAPNA group, even in Western ratings, is among the top five, but we can be called thieves. It doesn't change reality; it just shows your disappointment. I don't know why you're pointing this at Iran.
            1. 0
              February 13 2024
              This is more of a disappointment with ourselves than a question for you. I think so. Well, imagine, over the past 20 years, China has become a world leader, Iran has made a foreign policy and technological breakthrough, and we, by and large, stand still. We justify everything by the “intrigues of the West” and essentially dance to its trumpet. You'll see, another 10 years will pass and Pakistan will make a technological breakthrough, and Iraq will achieve sustainable development. But it is not customary to write or talk about the markets of Pakistan and Iraq, which are potentially very promising in Russia. Together with Iran, a lot could be achieved in these markets, but it seems to me that with our policy Iran will do it on its own.
            2. 0
              February 13 2024
              Assembly of domestic turbines at the Kursk NPP under construction. Photo from 2024.
              1. -1
                February 13 2024
                Yes, I don’t mind, why then buy 40 turbines in Iran if everything is great here? Why buy auto parts in Iran in exchange for rolled metal?
                1. -3
                  February 14 2024
                  when you put all your eggs in the Western basket and start repeating Western anti-Iran propaganda about Iran to justify sanctions against Iran, and pretend that it was your own decision and not that the West ordered you to do it.
                  It's not easy to turn around and tell those same people that you made them believe that Iran is a backwards dump, that the Persians are actually great, and that we were wrong to sanction them; Now forget all the anti-Iranian propaganda we told you. especially when Russian Zionists and liberals claim that the anti-Iran propaganda is true and Russia's change in mood is due to desperation.
                  Of course, now the same people who had no problem importing gas turbines from Germany see imports from Iran as a sign of Russian weakness, as opposed to the reality that Iran produces the most efficient gas turbines in the world, ahead of not only Russia , but Germany, USA and others, and for a small price. So they will take it as bad news rather than good news.
                  The same goes for jet engine parts. The monocrystalline blade that Russia receives from Iran outside of Iran is only produced by the UK and France, even China does not have such capabilities. You can build jet engines without a monocrystalline blade, but they will be much less reliable and require more maintenance.
                  Metallurgy is one of the technologies with which the Persians have always had an advantage over others. I am sure that you, being Russians, have heard that British and Russian spies were sent to Persia in competitions in order to somehow steal the damask steel formula from the Persians.
                  Even today, PERED technology, which is short for Persian reduction technology recently invented and patented by Iran, has been adopted by Germany and China is receiving equipment for the third PERED plant in China.
                  The problem is that you spent years falsely portraying Iran as a simple-minded, backward country to its people, and now receiving technology from them is seen as a disgrace.
                  Perception is everything. Why don't the Chinese consider it a shame that Iran is building factories for them in China? Because China never told its people that the Iranians are backward and understand that they invented the technology and are the holders of the patent on it.
  9. +3
    February 12 2024
    The first, the most logical and the most theoretical, as practice shows, is to do your own thing at home. But even inveterate optimists must agree that there are some temporary problems with this.

    What a soft wording laughing It would be more accurate that we will not do our own thing soon, until the economic course changes... and because the president intends to rule for at least two more terms... then during this time we will irrevocably lag behind the industrial powers, having turned into an African country...in fact, we are already an African country, both in the political sphere and in the economy...the only thing that slightly separates us...is the military-industrial complex...which was inherited...
  10. -2
    February 12 2024
    No one has the desire to expose themselves to sanctions.
    This can be avoided within the framework of Brix, the new silk road, the EEU, etc. organizations can be achieved through the creation of an alternative to the IMF, the dollar and Swift.
    The most advanced in this regard is Brix, the chairmanship of which passed to the Russian Federation on January 1.01.24, XNUMX, and V.V. Putin last year announced work on creating an independent financial system that includes a non-cash banknote for external payments based on a basket of currencies of Brix members and a system interbank transfers, and the financial mega-regulator could become one of the existing banks - the new Brix Development Bank (NDB) or the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), but there is no reason to create a new one.
    If the Russian Federation’s proposal is accepted at the next meeting, it will greatly undermine the hegemony of the dollar and strengthen the renminbi, which accounts for the lion’s share of the total GDP of the Brix participants - dedollarization will officially be replaced by yuanization.
    This is a war to redistribute the world, but at least everyone will have a choice between the dollar and the Brix note, and competition between them will probably reduce the use of the dollar as a weapon of colonization and robbery
    1. -1
      February 12 2024
      The entire BRICS operates within the framework of WTO agreements. Bypassing sanctions is solved by purely bilateral relations between partner A and partner B, subject to non-resistance to the evil of the manufacturer, who is partner B. BRICS is generally a rudiment of project logic within the framework of the Club of Rome, and if it opposes the supposed “world hegemon”, then only within the framework of competition between American global constructs and those of the Club of Rome.
      1. 0
        February 12 2024
        Unfortunately, BRICS+ does not have the political will to commit to the BRICS+ currency and leave the dollar behind to collapse.
        China is looking more disappointing each day, and India is certainly the US agent and a fifth Column, and to my amazement, Russia seems to not abandon the dream of becoming a westerner even at the expense of its independence (like sanctioning Iran).
        I say this based on the Mr. Putin interview with Tucker Carlson.
        It doesn't surprise me if Trump offers peace in return for Russia betraying Iran yet again, but then the US, after pocketing the benefit, goes to call Russia an enemy once again.
        Your main problem is the Zionist hold that repeatedly brought you down this absurd path, much like the US in war against their interests due to Zionist.
        This formula always works. The entity you are not permitted to complain about is your ruler, especially when even the pretend ruler cannot say anything about them.
        In the West, you can insult God, but not the Zionists

        Unfortunately, BRICS+ does not have the political will to join the BRICS+ currency and allow the dollar to collapse.
        China is looking more and more disappointing every day, and India is definitely a US agent and a fifth column, and to my surprise, Russia doesn't seem to be giving up on the dream of becoming a Western country even at the expense of its independence (for example, by imposing sanctions on Iran ).
        I say this based on Putin's interview with Tucker Carlson.
        It wouldn't surprise me if Trump offers peace in exchange for Russia betraying Iran again, but then the US, having benefited, calls Russia the enemy again.
        Your main problem is the Zionist government, which has repeatedly led you down this absurd path, just as the US is waging a war against its interests because of Zionism.
        This formula always works. The entity you are not allowed to complain about is your ruler, especially when even the supposed ruler has nothing to say about him.
        In the West you can insult God, but not Zionists
        1. +3
          February 12 2024
          It wouldn't surprise me if Trump offered peace in exchange for Russia betraying Iran again
          It won’t surprise me either..Do you know what they say in Russia? Entrance, ruble, exit, two...
          1. -2
            February 12 2024
            Quote: kor1vet1974
            It won't surprise me either. Do you know what they say in Russia? Input, ruble, output, two..

            I know patriots like Mr. Doujin talk about the absolute necessity of the Russo-Persian alliance. He said others' like China could join, but the core and thoughtful backbone of the alliance should be real and strong Russo-Persian brotherhood at all levels.
            According to him, the destiny of Russians and orthodox Christians as whole is alliance with Shia Persian culture, which, in his opinion, has a lot of unmistakable similarities and goals with Russian culture, including resistance to western atheist and LGBT ideology and Sunny extremists.
            He noticed that all the terrorists, like ISIS, the Taliban, al-Qaida, and al-Nusra, are Sunni salafi Wahhabi, and Shia Persians and Russia are determined to stop them. He named Syria as a great example. He also talked about Iran's tolerance orthodox people and even supported orthodox Armenians against fellow Shia Azerbaijanis, which shows another Russo-Persian interest in stopping pan-Turk delusional plans.
            Iran's support of Armenia against none other than Shia Azerbaijan is something westerners never mentioned in their news. Why? Iran is supposed to be a monster that wants to kill Christians unless they convert to Shia worldwide, but no one asks them why Iran didn't do that to its own 600 active churches.
            Western hegemony—terrorism, pan-Turk, and economic interests, including many corridors—are all good enough reasons for alliances individually, but all of them combined are screaming to our faces to forge the damn alliance already; if that does not cement the alliance, then nothing will do it.



            I know that patriots like Mr. Duzhin talk about the absolute necessity of a Russian-Persian alliance. He said that other countries such as China could join, but the core and ideological basis of the alliance should be a true and strong Russian-Persian brotherhood at all levels.
            In his opinion, the destiny of Russians and Orthodox Christians in general is an alliance with Shia Persian culture, which he believes has many unmistakable similarities and goals with Russian culture, including resistance to Western atheistic and LGBT ideologies and Sunni extremists.
            He noted that all terrorists like ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra are Sunni-Salafi-Wahhabi and the Shia Persians and Russia are determined to stop them. He cited Syria as an excellent example. He also talked about Iran's tolerance towards Orthodox people and even supported Orthodox Armenians against their fellow Shia Azerbaijanis, which shows another Russian-Persian interest in stopping delusional pan-Turkic plans.
            Iran's support for Armenia of none other than Shiite Azerbaijan is something Westerners have never mentioned in their news. Why? Iran is supposed to be a monster that wants to kill Christians unless they convert to Shiites all over the world, but no one asks them why Iran didn't do this to their 600 active churches.
            Western hegemony - terrorism, pan-Turkism and economic interests, including many corridors - are all good enough reasons for creating alliances individually, but all of them taken together scream in our faces that we should create this damn alliance already; If this doesn't cement the alliance, nothing will.
    2. 0
      February 12 2024
      The main and fundamental problem of Brix and all similar organizations in Asia, Africa and Latin America is the dominance of the dollar in the foreign trade of each state entity included in these organizations.
      The main trading partners of China are the USA-EU-India. Trade of Brazil, South Africa, Arab Egypt, Arabia and the rest is also tied to the US-EU, and not to Brix partners. However, a possible transition in mutual settlements to Brix banknotes makes it possible to reduce the oppressive dependence on the dollar, and the queue of applicants for joining Brix from Three dozen (!!!) government entities around the world speaks of such a desire and this gives hope for an informal existence Brix. The Brix meeting is coming soon, let's see what the Russian Federation offers and the Brix reaction to the Russian proposal.
      1. -2
        February 12 2024
        The Western elite, even if this happens (although it won’t), will solve this issue by uniting the value cluster of the euro and dollar. BRICS will not create a single currency, because value is formed in different ways and no one wants to put it together. First of all, China. And the United States is deliberately weakening the EU in order to later form one cluster. Yes, now the mutual trade indicators are 12-13%, but further weakening of the EU increases these values.
        As a result, we will get a full-fledged world currency of the new time. As for the hegemony of the dollar, there is no hegemony with a 42% share of settlements, but there are principles for issuing national currencies in relation to a basket of reserve currencies.
  11. +1
    February 12 2024
    Not everything is so simple there, this is not only in the banking sector, all large companies behave this way, for example, the supply of machine tools. So China is more of an enemy than a friend. Having such friends, there is no need for enemies...
  12. 0
    February 12 2024
    I was always surprised by such news. The Western structure is so flexible in the field of finance and determined to make a profit that this problem is just a shock of the air. There, the level of shares, numbered accounts, mortgage notes, trading for metals is not considered at all, they cannot find a tool to circumvent sanctions?
  13. 0
    February 12 2024
    Quote: Doccor18
    Quote from Uncle Lee
    And friend China caves in...

    It does not bend, it bends, everything is in favor of the western wind. Profit and nothing but profit...

    There is no need to slander China. The Chinese are purely pragmatic and look after their own interests first. So what's wrong? Obviously, the European + US market is much more interesting for them than the small and short Russian one.
    And we just need to admit that we have cheap lazy whores in power who are ready to lie down to the highest bidder.
    Here's a little fact for you: out of 800 billion expenditures from the National Welfare Fund for 2024, 400 billion will go to the construction of an LNG production plant in Ust-Luga for Gazprom.
    Everything is fine with us, ladies and gentlemen!
  14. 0
    February 13 2024
    Thanks for the rather popular explanation!
    We have been saying for a long time that sanctions help us develop. We declare publicly.
    Without such loud statements, what would happen now with parallel imports, with re-imports, with exports? And to what extent would politicians (and large companies that have interests in Russia) from Europe, states and other countries increase pressure on our country?

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