Again we must defeat everyone quickly. Why is logic more important than emotions in war?

This will probably sound strange, but there are almost no topics related to combat that are passable. Over time, obvious facts are blurred out, made out to be unimportant, or completely forgotten. It also happens that seemingly quite adequate decisions of the command or government in the mouths of some leaders suddenly become almost a betrayal.

I recently listened to an interview with a London Russian who left Russia a long time ago and is now engaged in selling alcohol. It turns out that monetary rewards for signing a contract with the Russian Defense Ministry and large salaries for military personnel are disgusting. For the citizens of the country, who live almost in dugouts and do not have basic means of subsistence, this is the same “cheese in the trap.”

I apologize to hundreds of thousands of volunteers, but this is exactly what one of the famous opposition businessmen says. Allegedly, it is not we (not the country) who want to provide a decent life for the families of fighters while they break the back of another fascist bastard, supposedly this is a common purchase for mercenaries.

This is the logic of our opposition. Well, okay, what will you take from the traitors? The contents of the abscess on the healthy body of the country are trying to prove that it also represents something... They stirred up before the elections and chose a candidate for themselves. Now the most patriotic super-patriots are actively campaigning among people like them. They hope that there will be support, at least for PR, for anti-Putin among “foreign Russians.”

Today we will talk about something a little different. About what will happen next. But we will be based on what happened before and what is happening now. Many years ago, when I was first asked to analyze a situation, I read the comments and tried to explain my findings. He blamed himself for not being able to convey, not being able to show a logical chain of reasoning.

But then, when feedback from readers was established, when I talked with really smart officers and generals, I came to the understanding that this should not be done, simply because it is not necessary for those who do not want or cannot understand the general plan of the operation. These are either narrow-minded and illiterate people, or those who are always against it. There is a category that disagrees with what is being done. Always disagreeing. Out of principle...

They write to me a lot about how “it’s urgently necessary...”, “there’s no need to chew snot...”, “we need to bomb everything and everyone...”, etc. Honestly, I understand such people emotionally. I'm like that myself. No therapy if the problem can be solved with surgery... But this “surgery” will be very expensive. I'm not talking about money, about people... And not only ours...

Today many write about the wastefulness of the Russian military. A combat drone to destroy one military unit... This is not wastefulness, this is the reality of the air force. A soldier is more valuable than a box of shells, than a drone or a mine. A machine gun, a rocket, even an airplane or ship can be produced faster and cheaper than a soldier. In modern conditions, politicians and military men of all countries understand this. “Throwing hats” can only be done when there are enough heads on which these “hats” will be put on.

When the Russian Army goes to the last and decisive...

This is probably the most popular question I hear today. “So what, we took a village of two or three houses. And then we stopped.”... There are many variations of the question, but the essence does not change. At the same time, the questioner doesn’t even want to find out whether he knows how many platoons, companies or battalions the enemy lost while defending this village. It doesn't matter to him.

Sometimes I read comments on messages that a squad of our fighters knocked out the enemy from a company support group, and it makes my hair stand on end. “It should have been right on the shoulders further...” Guys, are you serious? Can you imagine the balance of power? Can you imagine what the soldiers of this squad did? Yes, at the place of command, after this battle, we urgently need to go there and present awards to all the soldiers and commanders right in the trenches and dugouts. After this fight, such a fight!..

But let us return to the question of a “decisive” offensive. Let me immediately voice my point of view. The offensive is already underway. And it is going quite successfully. This is a fact that is clear to any person who has the slightest understanding of the basics of military affairs. Not to mention career officers. Yes, this is not an attack with swords drawn, this is a different type of offensive. But this is precisely an offensive.

Pay attention to the messages from our military officers and officials from the Russian Defense Ministry. Every day we read about some successes of our units. Moreover, messages come from completely different directions. Suddenly some units occupied the Ukrainian Armed Forces' support forces in the southern direction. Then to the north. Then somewhere else. Success and clearing of the territory. And the victorious reports of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about stopping the Russians...

Doesn't it give you any thoughts? Just some lieutenant or sergeant decided to unexpectedly attack individually? Did you just sit in the dugout and decide that it was time to stretch the legs of your soldiers and yourself? Or commander tank just because there was nothing better to do, he brought the car into direct fire and fired the entire ammunition at the enemy?.. He got tired of shooting from closed positions...

Read below about who is attacking the Ukrainian Armed Forces and why. Now about what happens after such “anarchy” of our commanders on the other side. The brigade commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is sitting and suddenly there is a report that one of the system-forming support units has been taken by the enemy. What does a normal commander do in this case? “Plugs the hole” with his own efforts. That is, it either uses a reserve or removes a unit from some area of ​​defense.

Beautiful on paper. What if there is no reserve or there is no possibility to withdraw from other directions? Report to the top and request to send reinforcements. And there, at the top, they had already given the reserve yesterday or the day before to another brigade that found itself in the same situation. Again, report to the top and ask for help. Where? From other directions! And off we go. The brigades are rolling out from north to south, from east to west and back.

And they don’t just ride, but also lose their trained personnel in battles with “Russian anarchists.” And in return they receive “volunteers” caught on the streets and in shops who do not want and do not know how to fight. Thus, even prepared, trained brigades turn into conditionally combat-ready ones. It looks like a fully equipped and trained team, but in reality it’s nothing.

So what's the result? How will “anarchists” affect the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a whole?

I can’t say exactly when, but I can say how. What military correspondents are writing about today, all these minor, local successes, are in fact part of a fairly seriously thought-out operation.

Firstly, it is the exhaustion of Ukrainian Armed Forces units and the destruction of equipment and personnel.

Secondly, searching for “holes” in defensive fortifications. It is no secret that these structures were built a long time ago and represent quite serious fortifications.

Thirdly, the morale of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Let the small but constant victories of the Russians demoralize the personnel.

Well, fourthly, Russian units are building up their “fat”, training specialists, giving their soldiers leave, and so on. Not “from the wheels into battle,” but after serious training in a specific unit. Combat coordination not under bullets, but on the training ground...

I would not be at all surprised if some lieutenant or captain, supposedly unexpectedly for everyone, organizes such an attack, after which not only the unit, but also the formation will enter the operational space and destroy the Armed Forces of Ukraine without encountering any special problems. Moreover, this will not be a breakthrough of the next line of defense, but rather an access to operational space.

And then this lieutenant or captain will stand “front and center” in front of the Commander-in-Chief and report why, contrary to the plans of the two General Staffs, he collapsed the front with his attack and forced a bunch of generals and colonels to urgently come up with new plans. Right before awarding him the Hero of Russia star, report...

Why do we benefit from such tactics today?

It is clear that any operation that is planned by army headquarters cannot fail to take into account a number of objective factors that take shape at the time it begins. Moreover, from the point of view of the common man, the factors may not be externally related to the conduct of military operations. Let's look at the situation from a distance.

I’ll start, perhaps, with factors not directly related to combat operations.

Those who closely follow the Ukrainian media and Internet channels have already noticed the changes. Realizing the dire situation of the Zelensky regime, the political elite of Ukraine began to “open their mouths.” Nationalists have already begun to criticize the Kyiv authorities. Even such a “great” politician as Klitschko started talking about dictatorship and usurpation of power.

That is, to put it bluntly, a big ay-ah-ah has begun in the political elite of Ukraine. It’s frustrating when everyone is trying to “stay in white” while everything around is in shit. But these people are supported by some part of society. Including in the army.

Thus, today we can already talk about a decline in morale there: both in the political elite and in the army.

The decline in morale is no less influenced by... Americans. The point is not even that the United States cannot now satisfy all of Kyiv’s requests. There, contrary to the stories of Western media, there are enough weapons and ammunition. The problem is being deliberately highlighted in order to increase supplies. The problem is that the Americans really decided to find out where the money goes. Remember the recent searches of officials of the Ministry of Defense and in one of the companies associated with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

It would seem like a good deal. Find thieves and eliminate the money leakage channel. But this is in a normal country. In Ukraine, on the contrary, it is sabotage against defense capabilities. The fact is that the system is set up with corruption in mind. If you don’t grease it, you won’t go. One link is knocked out, and the system freezes. And it takes time to restore it.

This is clearly visible if you take a closer look at the construction of new fortifications. They started off briskly, but suddenly something went wrong. The pace of construction has dropped sharply. What is the reason? There is no official information... Let's think that the soil is frozen and so is the solution...

Now about military factors...

I already wrote about the first one above. There are almost no actually prepared compounds left. We saw an excellent example of this quite recently. I'm talking about the little-noticed capture of Tabaevka by our units. Well, the village and the village. As before, we did not notice the capture of Starch.

Only this village is in the Kharkov region. And its capture opens up great prospects for our units. In general, there is a displacement of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from positions in the direction of Svatovo, and to the north - in the direction of Kupyansk. In fact, Russian troops are pushing through the defenses in all directions. Moreover, they are doing this exactly where the most trained Ukrainian Armed Forces fighters were recently sitting.

The next problem that the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot solve is junior officers.

Platoon and company commanders. Those commanders who sit directly in the trenches. It is no longer uncommon for company commanders to hold the rank of sergeant. I'm not even talking about the platoon unit. It is impossible to fill this shortage with full-fledged commanders through training at training centers.

Using Western “volunteers” is also problematic. Among such mercenaries there are many narrow specialists, but there are almost no commanders. It is difficult to imagine a unit of the Ukrainian Armed Forces under the command of a retired sergeant or officer of any Western army. So what captives of the Wehrmacht Service quite often talk about, i.e., about the absence of a platoon or company commander in positions, is the reality of today’s Ukrainian army.

Well, back to the “open field”...

If you carefully study the photographs of Ukrainian positions, you can see a rather strange defense structure. It is typical for attacking units, but not for effectively defending units. A serious fortification, and then - almost zero... That is, behind the fortified areas, the defense is a line of trenches with minimal fortifications. What I wrote about above.

Soldiers are not born, soldiers die

I understand perfectly well that my point of view on the situation is just that, a point of view. Analysis of one specific person. There will be both supporters and opponents. This is fine. That's why headquarters exist. That’s why I decided to quote “Civil Defense”, slightly changing the lyrics of their song.

We are tired of war. I want this to end soon. And I want everyone to return home safe and healthy. But we understand perfectly well that the war must end in Victory. Our Victory. This is the whole task for the commanders and chiefs of our armed forces. To win and return sons to mothers, husbands to wives, fathers to children.

It seems to me that today I explained in sufficient detail the logic of reasoning based on already existing reliable facts. There is nothing new in this. Normal thinking process. Collection and assessment of information, analysis and synthesis of everything found and conclusion, i.e. new information.

As you can see, the problem here comes with emotions. And with “hat-kicking.” Relying on the heroism of soldiers without material addition is stupid. You cannot think with emotions and memories. “But in the last war, a month ago, a week ago...” it was different. War is a living organism. She lives her own special life. Logical and illogical, predictable and not very...

And as “icing on the cake” I left one more observation. It is connected with the already mentioned capture of Tabaevka.

Remember, the front stood there quietly for more than a year, without much change. And suddenly - taking two defensive players at once.

What will happen: the offensive will continue if the front is completely pushed through?

Will we be able to get to the Oskol River?

How about going further?

But this is a topic for another material, the time for which has not yet come...

Comments

[FoBoss_VM]

Yes, it’s all clear, like who did what and why. But did you look at the map? Can everyone compare the pace of advance and the area in hectares? Yes, even the liberation of four new regions will take ten years, no less. And people see and understand this. That's why they ask reasonable questions. And here Shoigu “criticized” defense top managers for disrupting the state defense order. This is how we live, it was the third year of the war

[Uncle lee]

Everything is clearly explained in the article.... It’s just not clear that we are harnessing for so long and when we will go quickly...

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Everything is clearly explained in the article.... It’s just not clear that we are harnessing for so long and when we will go quickly...

and most importantly, where will we go? tell us how to take Odessa, Nikolaev.. (for starters) to arrange a “sector gas”?

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Aerodrome

tell us how to take Odessa

I’m not the General Staff....Ask Gerasimov and Shoigu.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Yes, even without the General Staff it’s clear that
1) if there is an assault, then everything will be demolished, and then we (residents of the Russian Federation) will have to pay for the restoration of the cities.
2) if a miracle happens and the cities surrender, then the neo-Nazis will go into hiding, and then either terrorism/sabotage, or new separatism and independence in 10-100 years
So our rulers sit and figure out what to do here....

[parusnik]

how to take Odessa, Nikolaev..

Odessa was given to you, how to liberate the Donetsk region? In Slavyansk, they are probably tired of waiting... For 10 years they have been waiting... well, for the Russian army to come, but the Russian army is not coming...

[Russian]

They are waiting for the Russian army. The most unexpected “gift” for the residents of Slavyansk will be when the Russian one arrives.

[Butunak]

How about we take it as we took Marik, if we rebuild something. Stalingrad was rebuilt, so it needs to be liberated, then the ruins of the city. And this will last until the roll, people are already getting tired

[bayard]

Quote: Aerodrome

and most importantly, where will we go? tell us how to take Odessa, Nikolaev.. (for starters) to arrange a “sector gas”?

If this really interests you, let's first take a careful look at the map, assess the state and prospects for restoring the enemy's forces, assess the state of our forces at the present moment and in the near future, and based on this, the prospects and the most promising directions of attacks and their sequence will become visible.
You understand that after Shoiga’s adventure at the end of February 2022, they, together with Gerasimov, almost killed and greatly bled the best personnel of the Little Army, of which they were so proud. The situation from disaster was then saved by volunteer battalions hastily assembled from all regions of the country, as well as the attracted forces of the Russian Guard, “leopards” and other volunteers. Including PMCs. Which were not part of the Little Army at all. And of course, 320 thousand mobilized after the Ferris Wheel. It was from this moment that the creation of a full-fledged Russian Army began on the basis of the Small Army. Almost from scratch. In any case, from a fairly/very low base.
But a full-fledged Army of sufficient numbers and equipment, training and combat training, with appropriate weapons and combat material support is not at the snap of a finger. This is not just recruiting contract soldiers (which also takes time), but also equipping them, arming them with everything necessary, forming new units, units, formations and associations, finding/training command personnel for all this, producing them or returning them to service from (long-term) storage. all the necessary systems of weapons, equipment, transport, communications and combat control, provide an exhaustive amount of ammunition, carry out combat coordination, allow these new units and formations to gain combat experience, introducing at least part of the units into battle on rotation... And only after that the opportunity will arise... And by this moment all operational and strategic plans of the General Staff should be ready.

[bayard]

Quote: Aerodrome

how to take Odessa, Nikolaev..

According to the Plan and in the order of priority for completing the highest priority tasks. And in the context of the general strategic balance of power in this region and the World as a whole. This is not a local conflict at all. And this war has many fronts.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

The First World War lasted four years. The front collapsed when the Germans were completely drained of blood. Read "All Quiet on the Western Front": no offense...

[dmi.pris1]

The front collapsed due to the actual betrayal of the then political mob there, namely the socialists. Yes, and the Germans could not play for a long time, although they brought a very strong enemy, Russia, out of the war.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

The front collapsed due to the actual betrayal of the then political mob there, namely the socialists.

The front collapsed because in the Reich ordinary people and rank and file had nothing to eat.
By 1916, harvests had fallen by 35% and the downward trend continued. The number of pigs has been halved. And ahead were the potato harvest failure and the Rutaberry winter of 1916-1917.
In 1917, the situation was partially saved by the requisition of Romania's food reserves - but this made it possible to increase the calorie content of the daily ration from 1150 kcal to only 1450 kcal. And this is in theory - based on issuance standards. In practice, to purchase cards you still had to stand in lines - for example, 6 hours for potatoes - and sometimes return with nothing.
It came down to bag-shopping, barter between townspeople and villagers, gendarmerie raids on bag-sellers, a production plan for farmers and searches to control unrecorded goods. The black market for food flourished throughout the Reich. In general, the German Ordnung smoothly slid onto Russian rails.
And in 1918, food supply came to a complete standstill. It was no longer possible to rob Romania a second time. And according to the Brest-Litovsk Peace Treaty, the Germans received only promises from Ukraine. In reality, the food collected was only enough to supply the occupying forces. Only 113 tons of grain were exported outside Ukraine, all of which went to the allies - Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria and Turkey. The calorie content of the ration dropped to 400 kcal - a “weight loss diet”.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

Yes, and the Germans were not able to play for a long time, although they removed a very strong enemy, Russia, from the war.

Strong adversary Russia? How many debts did Nicholas II accrue while fighting on the side of the Entente? And what's the result? Did “his Poles” help him?

[dmi.pris1]

It’s clear that Nikolashka is useless. But still, the eastern front was drawing large forces from the Kaiser’s men.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

But still, the eastern front was drawing large forces from the Kaiser’s men.

For me, the names of those whom history is silent about are much more interesting... Those who were able to unite the eternal enemies Russia and GB into a single alliance.

[Machiavelli]

Alexander 3rd.after the Berlin Congress. When Germany did not support Russia on the Balkan issue.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Machiavelli

Alexander 3rd.after the Berlin Congress. When Germany did not support Russia on the Balkan issue.

A WHOLE 20 YEARS passed between the death of Alexander III and the beginning of WWI!!!
* * *
Although, VVP, for example, believes that Lenin and Stalin are to blame for everything, and the same EBN was a great reformer...Together with Chubais...

[Sergej1972]

First of all, French presidents, prime ministers and foreign ministers.

[g0ryachevnn]

It’s clear about Nikolashka... well, you can’t do that, because he’s an idol... and no...

[dmi.pris1]

You forgot about one more. Which one is “meh”

[bayard]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

It’s clear that Nikolashka is useless. But still, the eastern front was drawing large forces from the Kaiser’s men.

“Holy Passion-Bearer” Nikola-2, saving Paris in 1914, destroyed the entire Cadre Army of the Republic of Ingushetia, and in 1915 the Guard was also killed. As a result, after the retreat of 1915, the Republic of Ingushetia sat on the defensive, declaring to the allies that there would be no offensives for 2 years. Russia simply held the front for the next 2 years.
There was, of course, the Brusilov breakthrough, to which neither Nikola nor the General Staff gave consent for a long time. But it was precisely these 2 years that were needed in order to mobilize, train, and arm the new 11-million-strong Army. And we never got around to using it for its intended purpose.

Something similar is happening now.
A full-fledged Army is being created, capable of fighting and defeating strong/strong opponents. And demanding “immediate attacks” from her (as Brusilov did) is unacceptable. Any process has its own deadlines. And demanding from a woman to give birth to a child before the age of 9 months is game and a crime.
The Russian army is growing numerically, changing qualitatively, gaining strength and combat experience. The industry is only reaching the required volumes of production of weapons and ammunition. The country's budget provided an unprecedented amount of military spending.
Meanwhile, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are pretty drained of blood. Their economy is torn to shreds and is supported only by external financing. And in the countries that sponsor the regime of Ukrainian fascism, the economies and “social bonds” are already cracking. Both in the USA and in Europe... a classic Revolutionary Situation is emerging. . And they are already close to the Civil War.
The leadership of the Russian Federation has now chosen the most resource-saving mode of warfare, while optimizing the damage caused to the enemy. This year, the Armed Forces of Ukraine and their sponsors will reach the lowest point of their combat effectiveness and ability to supply/support military personnel.
And the RF Armed Forces will finally acquire the required potential.

But this war has many other fronts and directions. Which cannot be overlooked.

[fif21]

Quote from Uncle Lee

It’s just not clear why we’re harnessing it for so long and when we’ll go quickly...

When we learn to break logical chains, then we will go!

[AUL]

Quote from Uncle Lee

Everything is clearly explained in the article....

Well, whatever, we already have enough explainers!

Pay attention to the messages from our military officers and officials from the Russian Defense Ministry. Every day we read about some successes of our units. Moreover, messages come from completely different directions. Suddenly some units occupied the Ukrainian Armed Forces' support forces in the southern direction. Then to the north. Then somewhere else. Success and clearing of the territory. And the victorious reports of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about stopping the Russians...

So, if you believe the reports, we should have released the entire 404 twice already, back and forth. But for some reason, Donbass is still being shelled almost from small arms. How does this happen?

[fif21]

Quote from AUL

But for some reason, Donbass is still being shelled almost from small arms. How does this happen?

The author wrote - emotions aside, let's turn on logic! I'll try to build a logical chain. Mavika problem. Maviks (colloquially “birds”) have a radio channel with an operator, low speed, small size, low flight altitude, and short time in the air. What countermeasures can be provided is ammunition directed via a radio communication channel with the operator, an electronic warfare signal capable of suppressing the operator’s signal, and that’s all for now. What remains is low speed, small size, low flight altitude. What can be opposed? Fraction! Hunting Falcons...that is, everything that people use to hunt birds.

[AUL]

Quote: fif21

The author wrote - emotions aside, let's turn on logic! I'll try to build a logical chain. Mavika problem.

What happened now? Reply to my post or "finally"? I didn't catch the logic in this stream of letters.

[fif21]

Quote from AUL

What was it now?

What you wrote is emotions. Turn on logic, and you won't have such questions.

[AUL]

What is your logic? I write about one thing, you answer me about Maviki (albeit quite informative ) . No, that kind of logic doesn’t work for me, thank God!

[fif21]

Quote from AUL

No, that kind of logic doesn’t work for me, thank God!

But in vain, my friend! In vain! What's the point of asking questions to which you can't get an answer? You will suggest what to do or how to do it. To solve what is bothering you.

[AUL]

Quote: fif21

But in vain, my friend! In vain!

No no! This is without me!

[Barabashka]

We started the operation so that Donetsk would not be bombed, and now two years later, what has changed? about this question

[bug120560]

“What can provide counteraction is ammunition directed via a radio communication channel with the operator, an electronic warfare signal capable of suppressing the operator’s signal, and that’s all for now. What remains is low speed, small size, low flight altitude. What can be countered? Shot! Hunting Falcons.... that is, everything that people use to catch birds."
You don’t need such exotic stuff, you just need an order from the Ministry of Defense and the deployment of mass production of DBM from the artificial intelligence bureau KEMZ.
As the developer of the DBM, head of the special design bureau of artificial intelligence KEMZ Bogdan Mishchuk noted in a commentary to RT: “The main advantage of the DBM lies in the automation of guidance processes. The system calculates the distance to the target, can determine the amount of ammunition needed and the appropriate firing mode. The period from the moment the drone is detected to it can take several seconds to defeat it. Currently, a prototype of the DBM is installed on the Typhoon-VDV armored vehicle with a 4 × 4 wheel arrangement. However, according to the developers, the module is quite easy to mount on any mobile and stationary platform that has the necessary carrying capacity." So we need a peak from above, those who are responsible for supplying the army, so that the army has everything in abundance.

[fif21]

Quote: bug120560

You don’t need such exotic stuff, you just need an order from the Moscow Region

Soon the fairy tale will tell, but not soon the deed will be done! Have you seen the video with a fighter who showed miracles of acrobatics and dodged a drone? And this issue could be solved by a hunting rifle with shotgun cartridges. Shooting from a machine gun at a drone is stupid, but from a sniper rifle it’s not a good idea. But with a simple hunting rifle, shot - that's it. Who will be against it if they offer something more effective?

[Kurganets-45]

Well, you can’t put a shotgun at the forefront as the main means of fighting drones. Can you shoot down a drone with shot? It’s possible, but it’s impossible to base the concept of fighting drones on this; electronic warfare means exist for this.

[AAK]

So we already “went” quite quickly at the very beginning of the North Eastern Military District, but someone very quickly wanted to “reharness” the horses to the other side of the cart, apparently they were frightened by euphoria, but, what’s worse, the harness turned out to be rotten, it began to tear, apparently such a good owner...

[Nastia makarova]

there is no need to rush, let it be as long as it takes

[Toucan]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

there is no need to rush, let it be as long as it takes

Yeah, I already read something similar somewhere:

When a war becomes endless, it ceases to be dangerous.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

there is no need to rush, let it be as long as it takes

That's what a plumber would tell you when you have waste in your toilet.

[AUL]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

there is no need to rush, let it be as long as it takes

Nastenka, haven’t you thought that every hour at the front means someone’s life or disability? In war, you know, they not only reward, but also kill and maim. And not some abstract 200s or 300s, but living people, perhaps even your friends or even relatives!
You probably should have spent a week on the front line (for example, as a nurse) before making such maxims!

[Nastia makarova]

what options might there be? You can't win with desire alone

[Blackmokona]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

what options might there be? You can't win with desire alone

For example, should we start giving out necklaces for mistakes instead of medals and promotions?
This is not fantasy.

[Nastia makarova]

then there will be fewer people willing to go and command

[dmi.pris1]

And there’s only one option. Not ours, really, but “our” Kremlin people. Declare “Victory”. At the current borders. They’re going through the roof with all eyes and in the media, and that’s it - all goals have been achieved. We’re diverging from the demarcation line. You think Do we have many who want to fight for years for unclear goals, leave their families, risk their lives? Looking at what is happening in the country

[Nastia makarova]

it will probably be like this soon

[Ross xnumx]

Following your performances

But this “surgery” will be very expensive. I'm not talking about money, about people... And not only ours...

Only such surgery saves lives. And the proposed therapy delays death...

Today many write about the wastefulness of the Russian military.

Today, many people write (if they write) about an incomprehensible situation, when at the front everything is unchanged, and in the rear an atmosphere of hopelessness is created, when people who heard about the war on TV receive it in full, delivered to their homes.

 At the same time, the questioner doesn’t even want to find out whether he knows how many platoons, companies or battalions the enemy lost while defending this village. It doesn't matter to him.

And the questioner is much more interested in knowing how many civilians died on Russian territory during this time, and what results this event brought in the overall picture of “denazification” and “demilitarization,” because he also knows how to count and compare what was stated with what was done.

What military correspondents are writing about today, all these minor, local successes, are in fact part of a fairly seriously thought-out operation.

Would you like me to tell you the real purpose of the operation? And it is quite simple: to occupy a free place in the brains of the electorate with “emerging” patriotism and the emergence of “love and reverence” for the once hated “United Russia”... Wasn’t this what the creator and leader of the party sought when they laid wreaths on the grave of EBN? Don’t they know about the “love” of Russians for the “first president” and the center of the same name in Yekaterinburg? Would you like to tell us your version of “Overton windows”?

And then this lieutenant or captain will stand “front and center” in front of the Commander-in-Chief and report why, contrary to the plans of the two General Staffs, he collapsed the front with his attack and forced a bunch of generals and colonels to urgently come up with new plans. Right before awarding him the Hero of Russia star, report...

Bad allegory. Do you know why? Because neither this hero-lieutenant, nor these generals, nor the Supreme Commander himself will be able to voice the plans of the General Staff and the prospects for the development of the situation in the event of an inevitable victory. If only in two famous words.
But here, as in the famous joke:
“Don’t freak out! Show me with your hand!”

It seems to me that today I explained in sufficient detail the logic of reasoning based on already existing reliable facts. There is nothing new in this. Normal thinking process. Collection and assessment of information, analysis and synthesis of everything found and conclusion, i.e. new information.

You probably provided a lot of facts. Only the logic is kind of clumsy. If you noted:

These are either narrow-minded and illiterate people, any or those who are always against. There is a category that disagrees with what is being done. Always disagreeing. Out of principle...

Then we should clarify with you: “Who are those who are always “for”? What kind of category is it that war is always a mother? Who are those who consider the 27 Donetsk residents who died in the market or those 9 Russians from the downed Il-76 to be inevitable (necessary) victims to achieve victory?”
You are looking in vain for the category of eternally dissatisfied people. There are two mutually opposite categories:
- the first category includes those who feel good when others feel good;
- the second category unites those who feel bad when others are in grief.
There is one more thing: they feel good when they themselves feel good, no matter what others feel and experience.

But this is a topic for another material, the time for which has not yet come...

This is the whole meaning of our life - “the time has not come...”
When will that time come? When will 2036 come or when will they put us in a hole and cover us with earth?

[ZloyCat]

“Nastenka, haven’t you thought that every hour at the front means someone’s life or disability?”
judging by the fact that the command of the Russian Armed Forces is in no hurry, this is not so. or they don’t care about these losses

[dmi.pris1]

And for how long, how much will you have enough strength? Human, economic?

[tsvetahaki]

I personally (my humble opinion) believed that there was only one way for us to not only win the war - but then win the peace. This is to do everything very quickly in 2022, so that there are no blood enemies...
Over the course of 2 years, speaking with friends there, I saw how such blood enemies appeared. Killed a neighbor (collateral damage), lost business, burned down - in general inevitable material and human losses of people there, in general, not involved... There is no escape from this - in the end you have to choose - to lose your own or others... But this guaranteed problems in the future... perhaps unsolvable, worse than 15 million migrants from Central Asia and Kenya...
However... There is still fatigue from the war... Maybe prolonging the war will lead the other side to indifference and simply wanting the nightmare to end...

Well, about the war... Yes, killing people is the number one task... But the thought is gnawing, if they start supplying really modern systems to a certain country - what will be the balance of losses? The same HIMARS with not the best missiles had a significant impact on the balance of power...
Who is time working for now and where is the window of opportunity?

[Vladimir M]

One also gets the feeling that someone is deliberately and very intelligently delaying the implementation of the SVO.

[paul3390]

The main problem both with what is happening and with the country in general is that no one here has long and completely believed our leaders. Despite the upcoming 90% in the elections. Too often they lied to us, betrayed us, cheated us, robbed us, bullied us, insulted us and spat in our souls...

And with such an attitude towards power, you won’t go far. When people expect another epic western every day...

[Doctor]

One also gets the feeling that someone is deliberately and very intelligently delaying the implementation of the SVO.

The first fears passed, everyone realized that they could make good money. 200 grand in salary, benefits, medals, honor and respect in society. Senior and senior officers, all kinds of suppliers and builders are generally fine.
There is a risk, but it exists in the mine too.

Thoughts are not mine, if anything. From a conversation with a SVO participant.

[Vladimir M]

We can still agree about the senior and senior officers, although our military generals are dying. But problems will also arise, what should the state do next with hundreds of thousands who have returned from the Northern Military District to the outback on a salary of 30-50 thousand, and even with a sense of “heightened justice”. And it’s unlikely that even a state like Russia will last for decades.

[Doctor]

We can still agree about the senior and senior officers, although our military generals are dying. But problems will also arise, what should the state do next with hundreds of thousands who have returned from the Northern Military District to the outback on a salary of 30-50 thousand, and even with a sense of “heightened justice”. And it’s unlikely that even a state like Russia will last for decades.

Tens are not needed. One ten is enough. This is already perceived as a shift in the North.
There's a lady at my work. My son-in-law went and brought money and bought a plot of land. Now he is driving him back there and his husband at the same time. We need to build a dacha.
And so for everyone, some have to rebuild Mariupol, some have to turn shells at a factory, the military are generally busy, the training periods have finally ended, everyday life in combat has begun.

Everything is in order, the country has a goal.

[Vladimir M]

And yet it is not correct to compare the shift in the North and real participation in hostilities in the Northern Military District. There are three stages - the rise of patriotism, the population does not care and the population is tired... Now we are going through the second stage. Therefore, delaying the SVO for decades or another “agreement” is “like death” for the State.

[Doctor]

And yet it is not correct to compare the shift in the North and real participation in hostilities in the Northern Military District. There are three stages - the rise of patriotism, the population does not care and the population is tired... Now we are going through the second stage. Therefore, delaying the SVO for decades or another “agreement” is “like death” for the State.

The decision is made not by the population, but by senior officials. They are not directly threatened by anything, so they have their own reasons.
Zhukov suggested rushing to Lisbon. He can’t run into an attack, but orders are guaranteed.
Compare, just for fun. In the trenches, you even have to live to see one medal.

[Vladimir M]

As for the fact that nothing is threatening, one can argue for a long time - nothing threatened Nicholas 2 at one time either... Someone is working very competently within the country and against Russia to create the preconditions for upheavals within the country. This is the delay of the SVO, and the “negotiations”, and the national organized crime group....

[Doctor]

As for the fact that nothing is threatening, one can argue for a long time - nothing threatened Nicholas 2 at one time either... Someone is working very competently within the country and against Russia to create the preconditions for upheavals within the country. This is the delay of the SVO, and the “negotiations”, and the national organized crime group....

Yes, Russia is such a country. Here he easily fell asleep on the throne and woke up on a stake. And suddenly.

But in theory, what is the worst ending to a SVO? The Ukrainians will recapture the territory, including Crimea. I'm sure they won't go any further. Bye.

And what? We will live in a new reality.

[Vladimir M]

The worst ending to the SVO can only be a “massive and merciless” Russian revolt within Russia. The Ukrainians cannot recapture the territories, including Crimea, and the West will not allow them to do so. The West itself is afraid of this, otherwise it would not supply weapons to Ukraine in doses. The seizure of the same Crimea would unite the population of Russia, which has happened more than once in history, and it is not known where Russia would have stopped then. The West knows this very well, which is why it is betting not on victory by military means, but on the collapse of Russia from within, not without the help of our “fifth column,” of course.

[Doctor]

The worst ending to the SVO can only be a “massive and merciless” Russian revolt within Russia. The Ukrainians cannot recapture the territories, including Crimea, and the West will not allow them to do so. The West itself is afraid of this, otherwise it would not supply weapons to Ukraine in doses. The seizure of the same Crimea would unite the population of Russia, which has happened more than once in history, and it is not known where Russia would have stopped then. The West knows this very well, which is why it is betting not on victory by military means, but on the collapse of Russia from within, not without the help of our “fifth column,” of course.

A riot can happen, but Crimea cannot. Why? Anything can really happen. The West sleeps and sees the NATO port in Sevastopol, so everything is in favor there.

And the dosage is apparent. As Cameron put it: “I have already told my American colleagues: you spent 10% of the defense budget, which allowed you to destroy 50% of Russian weapons. This is just an excellent result.”
Even if everything is wrong twice, they are satisfied with everything.

[Vladimir M]

I agree that “the West sleeps and sees the NATO port in Sevastopol.” But he achieves this not by military means, but by creating the preconditions for the collapse of Russia from within. The same “counter-offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine” for the West is just one of the components to create conditions for the collapse of Russia and is far from the main thing, together with sanctions, undermining our flows, delaying the Northern Military District, national organized crime groups, our “fifth column”...

[Blackmokona]

Quote: Arzt

A riot can happen, but Crimea cannot. Why? Anything can really happen. The West sleeps and sees the NATO port in Sevastopol, so everything is in favor there.

Why do they need the NATO port in Sevastopol? Are Turkey, Bulgaria, Georgia and Romania, Moldova in the World Cup not enough for them?

[Vladimir M]

In fact, back in 2013, under Vita the lousy, mattress makers were planning their bases in Crimea and even announced a tender for construction work. The main goal of the Maidan in 2014 was to expel the Russian Black Sea Fleet from Crimea.

[solar]

Actually, back in 2013, under Vita the lousy, the mattress pads were planning their bases in Crimea

Only Black Sea countries have access for ships to the Black Sea. And the Black Sea ones have their own shore and their own bases.

[ZloyCat]

“Someone is working very competently within the country and against Russia to create the preconditions”
the king is good, the boyars are bad. this has happened before, it didn't work. and the tsar is useless, and the boyars are equal

[Gardamir]

What a naive you are. The Kremlin boys are enjoying themselves and sleeping softly. And they do everything to make this last as long as possible. And the fact that you take Odessa in your dreams is so funny to the boys.

[Mishka78]

Quote: Arzt

Compare for fun

It is somehow incorrect to compare the ceremonial jacket of a senior officer and the field uniform of an ordinary soldier.

[Doctor]

It is somehow incorrect to compare the ceremonial jacket of a senior officer and the field uniform of an ordinary soldier.

Do you think the rank and file in the field don’t have all the medals? Did you save the rest for the parade?

[Mishka78]

Quote: Arzt

Not all orders are on the field

Hm. How can you crawl on your belly under fire? Yes, even according to the regulations, awards are not worn on the field uniform.

55. On field military uniforms, items of special and work clothing, wearing state awards of the Russian Federation and the USSR, departmental awards of the GUSP, awards of other public authorities and state bodies (except for the cases provided for by these Rules) is not allowed.

[Doctor]

Hm. How can you crawl on your belly under fire? Yes, even according to the regulations, awards are not worn on the field uniform.

It's clear. How I forgot, every soldier and junior commander in WWII had a parade. And a bunch of orders on it. The rear workers transported paradok warehouses behind the fronts.

[Mishka78]

Quote: Arzt

How I forgot, every soldier and junior commander in WWII had a parade

I don't think we understand each other.
One photograph of G.K. Zhukov in his office and in full dress uniform, he was clearly preparing to be photographed. The second photograph of ordinary soldiers and an officer in field uniform against the background of a destroyed building, i.e. done quite spontaneously.
I say that it is incorrect to make such comparisons in terms of awards on the form.
I no longer understand what you are talking about, sorry.
But one of my grandfathers, whom I found alive and who went through the war as an ordinary soldier, also had a fair iconostasis. Although, of course, he was far from Zhukov.

[Doctor]

I don't think we understand each other.
One photograph of G.K. Zhukov in his office and in full dress uniform, he was clearly preparing to be photographed. The second photograph of ordinary soldiers and an officer in field uniform against the background of a destroyed building, i.e. done quite spontaneously.
I say that it is incorrect to make such comparisons in terms of awards on the form.
I no longer understand what you are talking about, sorry.
But one of my grandfathers, whom I found alive and who went through the war as an ordinary soldier, also had a fair iconostasis. Although, of course, he was far from Zhukov.

Soldiers at the front wore awards on their field uniforms. Because they didn’t have a parade there. I think they filmed it before an attack or reconnaissance mission so as not to interfere. But the pilots flew with them. Against the backdrop of the Reichstag after the Victory, nothing stopped anyone from wearing all the orders. Zhukov also wore them constantly as long as they fit.

All my comments have only one purpose - to show the fact that the higher the commander, the more chances he has to survive and the more orders he receives.
Therefore, when making a decision, the issue of personal safety is in third place.

[solar]

Soldiers at the front wore awards on their field uniforms.

Then it was called everyday field, and awards were worn on it.

[solar]

Previously there was a different gradation of form.
Now it is divided into front, everyday and field.
Previously, it was an everyday field dress, and awards were worn on it.
You can see for yourself in the photo - the awards are on the uniform.

[seacap]

Arzt>> I can understand your desire to discredit or somehow humiliate the merits of the Marshal by manipulating concepts. But you decided to do this on the wrong site, and you took the example extremely poorly, taking into account that people here, mostly from their own skin and first-hand, know what military labor is and who gets what for what merits. By the way, Zhukov knew how to shoot perfectly and, as a cavalryman, he handled a horse superbly; he could easily replace any fighter in a trench, and a fighter could replace him in the General Staff or Headquarters; a fighter from a trench could organize the defense of Moscow or Leningrad in a seemingly hopeless situation, which then he tells me no. The engineer in the workshop does not have to stand at the lathe himself, the Chief Designer does not need to personally test his plane in flight, etc.
By the way, this is your history, your people, by spitting on it, you are discrediting the honor of your great ancestors among the entire Soviet people.

[ZloyCat]

"a fighter from the trench could organize"
What, did Zhukov command the front from a trench? put a fighter on equal terms, and it remains to be seen. although I would definitely ride a Zhukov horse better, and play the accordion

[Doctor]

Arzt>> I can understand your desire to discredit or somehow humiliate the merits of the Marshal by manipulating concepts. But you decided to do this on the wrong site, and you took the example extremely poorly, taking into account that people here, mostly from their own skin and first-hand, know what military labor is and who gets what for what merits. By the way, Zhukov knew how to shoot perfectly and, as a cavalryman, he handled a horse superbly; he could easily replace any fighter in a trench, and a fighter could replace him in the General Staff or Headquarters; a fighter from a trench could organize the defense of Moscow or Leningrad in a seemingly hopeless situation, which then he tells me no. The engineer in the workshop does not have to stand at the lathe himself, the Chief Designer does not need to personally test his plane in flight, etc.
By the way, this is your history, your people, by spitting on it, you are discrediting the honor of your great ancestors among the entire Soviet people.

You misunderstood my point.

It's simple.
The higher you are on the career ladder, the further you are from death and the greater the chances of being awarded.

The soldiers at the Reichstag have few awards because they are already the 10th member of a regiment. The rest simply didn't make it.

Personally, I would not give the title of Hero from colonel or higher at all.

[Sergei Fonov]

The author meant that at the front, spacecraft soldiers wore awards on their field uniforms, this is true, there is even an order about this. Attitudes towards Zhukov vary; usually his most ardent supporters are film buffs, and they adore Zhukov thanks to Ulyanov’s brilliant acting; unfortunately, they haven’t read the books, otherwise they wouldn’t have written like that. By the way, Zhukov, despite everything, still admitted his guilt for the defeat of the spacecraft in 1941.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

and they adore Zhukov thanks to Ulyanov’s brilliant acting; unfortunately, they haven’t read the books, otherwise they wouldn’t have written like that.

What books have you read? There is a book by Alexey Isaev "Georgy Zhukov". It’s quite convincing about Georgy Konstantinovich’s contribution as a “crisis manager” to the Victory over Germany.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

By the way, Zhukov, despite everything, still admitted his guilt for the defeat of the spacecraft in 1941.

And what did he “do”?

[Sergei Fonov]

In addition to Isaev, there is a lot of literature, Kozinkin and many others think differently. Read it, don’t be a hostage to one point of view, then you will understand what Zhukov “did.” These complaints were expressed to him by “other SS Marshals. Have you heard anything about the commission of Colonel General Pokrovsky, and for what purpose did Stalin create it? There is a book by Mikheenkov, Melnikov about the 33rd Army, a book by Patients on the blitzkrieg, it’s sad to refer to Isaev as the truth in last resort. Read about Operation Mars, why Stalin removed Zhukov during the liquidation of the Korsun-Shevchenkovsky cauldron, and left Konev. “The main enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge” With Hawking.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Read it, don’t be a hostage to one point of view, then you will understand what Zhukov “did.”

Once again I ask you specifically what YOU know about what Zhukov did, and not references to authors unknown to me. You could also add Beshanov and Rezun-Suvorov to this list.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

.....Melnikov about the 33rd Army

Are you talking about the Western Army, the size of a complete division, under the command of the “military intellectual” General Efremov? Who was tasked with breaking through to Vyazma and capturing this important enemy transport hub, but who failed the task with his sluggish actions. Although Isaev himself admits that this was a personnel miscalculation by Zhukov, who entrusted this task to such a person, incapable of the brutal and uncompromising war of the 20th century.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

....read about Operation Mars

In November 1942, Georgy Konstantinovich, by order of the Supreme Commander, left the implementation of the counteroffensive plan at Stalingrad to others, he was responsible for the Mars prepared by Konev and Purkaev and was forced to step on the rake of mistakes in his planning, which he himself would hardly have made.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

“The main enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge” S. Hawking.

What do we know? But we know that according to the general’s figures
Gareev, if we take losses as a percentage of the total number of troops, we get the following picture:
The irretrievable losses of the Western Front under the command of Zhukov amount to 13,5% of the total number of troops, and of Kalinin 14,2%.
In the Rzhev-Vyazemsk operation, Zhukov had 20,9%, and Konev - 35,6.
In the Vistula - Oder - the 1st Belorussian Front has 1,7%, and the 1st Ukrainian Front has 2,4%.
In the Berlin operation, the 1st Belorussian Front had 4,1%, and the 1st Ukrainian Front had 5%.
The losses of the 2nd Ukrainian under the command of Malinovsky in the Budapest operation were almost 2 times greater than in the Berlin operation under Zhukov. And so it was in almost all operations, and this despite the fact that Zhukov had to act in the most difficult areas.

[Sergei Fonov]

You introduced the term “wrong” in your response today at 15:17, it is not applicable, but since you decided to use it, this is your right. Now let's get started. I didn’t write about Rezun, but I wrote about the Pokrovsky commission, but you ignored it. About the intellectual Efremov, well, even if “Isaev himself” admits it, it’s difficult to argue, and the whole thing is some kind of compact division. True, Stalin thought differently; it was not in vain that a commission was created to investigate the death of the 33rd Army and its division commander. A plane was sent for Efremov, but he sent wounded soldiers in his place, and being wounded, he shot himself so as not to be captured. Truly an intellectual, not like Admiral Oktyabrsky or Petrov. I didn’t write about losses, I won’t get lost. And a little is needed about the guilt of the NS GSH KA: there was no approved plan for 1941 to protect the country, there was no well-thought-out notification of troops, as in Kuznetsov’s fleet, which did not suffer losses on the first day of the war. The destruction of aviation. Only in ODVO, thanks to Zakharov, the aviation was relocated, and even then Michugin demanded a written order, which is why Zhukov was blamed for the defeats in 41 by his colleagues.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

You introduced the term “wrong” in your response today at 15:17, it is not applicable, but since you decided to use it, this is your right.

This is not a term, but a verbal turn to your thesis, that de:

By the way, Zhukov, despite everything, still admitted his guilt for the defeat of the spacecraft in 1941.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

About the intellectual Efremov, well, even if “Isaev himself” admits it, it’s difficult to argue, and the whole thing is some kind of compact division.

Not compact, but complete.
The fact that he sent wounded soldiers in his place is, of course, touching and humane, but this has nothing to do with his professional qualities and ability, as a commander, to strictly implement his decisions and stick to the chosen line without the chaos of throwing. Here is the description that Zhukov gave to Efremov on January 28, 1942, shortly before the Vyazemsk operation:
“The operational space is extremely limited. In all operations carried out by the army, there was always a constant need for constant leadership from the front command, including the tactical use of individual divisions and the location of the command post. Orders are not carried out on time and accurately.
The position of army commander does not quite correspond. It is advisable to appoint commander of the internal district.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Truly an intellectual, not like Admiral Oktyabrsky or Petrov.

In fact, here is the same intellectual from military affairs - Moltke the Younger, who led the German army in the Battle of the Marne, with his indecisive actions brought the situation to almost catastrophic consequences. What the French, who were already seriously planning to surrender Paris, later called the “miracle on the Marne.”

Quote: Sergei Fonov

and about the Pokrovsky commission, but you ignored it.

This commission was created after the war for “debriefing” and by order of Stalin with the aim of pinning all the mistakes on one person - Zhukov, who had become excessively popular.
The main reason for the defeat in the Border Battle was the low density of troops and the lack of mobilization of the army, which had to face the most powerful military machine in Europe fighting using a new technology of warfare. Everything else is part of the confusion of the first hours and days of the war, and naval commander Kuznetsov with his fleet, most likely, at that time was not a priority target for the Wehrmacht. So, at the very least, he survived.

[Sergei Fonov]

There are two more characteristics in Efremov’s personal file; they contradict Zhukov’s; one of the previous characteristics was written by Shaposhnikov. And what else could Zhukov write in his own defense, if Zhukov, as a commander, forgot that the surrounded army needed to be supported with food and ammunition. The main reason for the defeat of the army in 1941 was the poor preparation of the spacecraft for war, and for this the direct responsibility lies with the NGSh of the spacecraft Zhukov, who admitted this after the war. Stalin could have simply imprisoned the “overly popular Zhukov” for a trophy case, as he did to others, but he did not do this. Everything that you wrote has long been verified under a microscope, and what Zhukov wrote in “Memories and Reflections” does not always correspond to the truth in everything. By the way, they write that Isaev was more objective in the period before he began working at the Institute. You don’t have to answer, what is a discovery for you has been studied and published a long time ago. Study.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

There are two more characteristics in Efremov’s personal file; they contradict Zhukov’s; one of the previous characteristics was written by Shaposhnikov. And what else could Zhukov write in his defense?

Zhukov wrote a characterization of Efremov even BEFORE the operation near Vyazma, and the conspiracy theory that Zhukov had prepared a negative characterization of the commander of the army thrown into the inferno in advance looks far-fetched.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

....if Zhukov, as a commander, forgot that the surrounded army needs to be supported with food and ammunition

Are you serious... ? Commander, I FORGOT....?
That is, for me the level of absurdity of your theses is already beginning to be traced.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

The main reason for the defeat of the army in 1941 was the poor preparation of the spacecraft for war, and for this the NGSh Zhukov spacecraft bears direct responsibility,

This is too general an assessment - “weak preparation of the Red Army.”
And who in Europe had “strong training” for the army? The French had a whole sophisticated Maginot line and what... did it help?
The Red Army was in the process of reforming both its organizational structure and weapons. And it is clear to anyone that in such a matter not everything goes smoothly. Even the Germans, after their Polish campaign, admitted from combat experience that their armored units were far from perfect and had already found their “ideal standard” before the attack on France.
I repeat once again, the main reason for the spacecraft’s defeats was the low density of troops, which in PRINCIPLE could not cover an extended front and the Germans easily broke through sparse battle formations and entered the rear of the Red Army with tank and motorized formations. And then encirclement and disasters began.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

....and what Zhukov wrote in “Memories and Reflections” does not always correspond to the truth in everything.

In the author's edition of his memoirs G.K. Zhukov spared the memory of the deceased commander and did not describe how he had to force him with sticks to lead the main forces of his army, making their way to Vyazma: “Lieutenant General M.G. Efremov decided to personally stand at the head of the army’s strike group and quickly move with them to Vyazma ". In fact, he attributed to Efremov those actions that he demanded of him, but which the army commander - 33 performed only under pressure from above, as if confirming his characterization.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

...what is a discovery for you has been studied and published long ago. Study.

I have already provided you with some research by General Gareev about the level of qualifications of Zhukov in comparison with other commanders in terms of the level of losses incurred. Or was this not a revelation for you?

[Sergei Fonov]

On January 17, Zhukov gave the order to attack, on January 28 he wrote a description, according to Isaev. The writer-historian, candidate of military sciences, Colonel VM Melnikov, does not agree with the characterization, article “A professional historian and military man about Isaev’s work.” In the article, he convincingly shows the inconsistency of Zhukov’s characterization of Efremov. Melnikov wrote 3 books about the fate of the 33rd Army, and he is considered the most authoritative writer who wrote about the 33rd Army.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

On January 17, Zhukov gave the order to attack, on January 28 he wrote a description, according to Isaev.

On January 17, the ORDER was GIVEN. After which the epic of the 33rd Army began. Army formations gradually withdraw from the battle in the Vereya area and march further south, to the area north of Yukhnov, where at that moment there was no continuous front. The operation itself BEGAN on January 29-30.01.42, XNUMX.

After the main forces of the 33rd Army moved to a new area on January 30, 1942, Zhukov strengthened the army and specified the task.
Having given very definite orders, on January 30.01.42, XNUMX, the front headquarters was interested in the execution of previous orders and asked Efremov, “Who controls your first echelon divisions?”
“The divisions of the first echelon are controlled by a military council. My departure and the operational groups to the area of ​​the first echelon on January 29.01. was temporarily postponed due to the situation in Iznoski.”
Efremov in Iznoski was engaged in securing the flanks of his army.
The order immediately follows: “Your task is near Vyazma, and not in the Iznoski area. Leave Kondratiev in Iznoski. Move forward yourself immediately. Zhukov.”
Efremov’s task was extremely simple, to capture Vyazma as quickly as possible and hold out until the reserves arrived. But he, as an infantry commander, tried to provide the rear and flanks, stretched himself thin and, as a result, was surrounded without completing the assigned task.

[Sergei Fonov]

Don’t correspond to me from Isaev, it’s not interesting. History has long turned into an ideological discipline, in which propagandists and agitators worked under the guise of scientists. While working in the archive, Melnikov studied more than 200 documents; the name Isaev did not appear on a single sheet of paper with the names of the persons who studied these documents. All the best.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Don’t text me Isaev, it’s not interesting. History has long turned into an ideological discipline, in which propagandists and agitators worked under the guise of scientists. R

Alexey Isaev Candidate of Historical Sciences, if anything.
But, as I understand it, you have nothing more to argue about the sequence of events regarding Efremov and his army:
17.01.42/XNUMX/XNUMX - receiving an order from Zhukov to conduct an operation near Vyazma with the parting words “there is an opportunity to distinguish yourself.”
28.01.42/5/XNUMX - Zhukov writes a characterization of Efremov. And on the same day, the commander of the XNUMXth Army L.A. Govorov, noted by Zhukov as a demanding, energetic, brave and organized commander.
January 29-30.01.42, XNUMX - the attack on Vyazma began.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

While working in the archive, Melnikov studied more than 200 documents; the name Isaev did not appear on a single sheet of paper with the names of the persons who studied these documents.

Now is the age of computer technology and it is possible to study documents, or as they say now - screenshots, in digitized form. At least all of Isaev’s links to sources and archives are available at the bottom of the text. And you can check them yourself.

Melnikov wrote 3 books about the fate of the 33rd Army, and he is considered the most authoritative writer who wrote about the 33rd Army.

It was from him that you read that G.K. Zhukov

, ....how the commander FORGOT (!) that the surrounded army needs to be supported with food and ammunition.

Then I understand the level of this “authoritative researcher” and you, as his admirer.

[Sergei Fonov]

Isaev in his book “Myths and Truth about Marshal Zhukov” writes about himself. “In general,” when they call a book “the truth about something,” it immediately alarms me. If a writer positions himself as a bearer of absolute knowledge, then he is either not very smart, or he belongs not to scientists, but to agitators and propagandists." The book is called Myths and the truth, which category did the author place himself in? "not too smart", or to "agitators-propagandists"? Military operations are studied not only by historians. Report of the General Staff on Khalkhin Gol: Actions of the 1st Army Corps. Groups led by Mr. Zhukov did not meet the requirements of military science. There was no interaction between the military branches. Only thanks to Stern we defeated the Japanese.VIA No. 5 (53).
Conclusions of the commission of the Vasilchenko settlement (GS KA) on the death of the Western Wing of the 33rd Army: Operational Plans did not correspond to the availability of forces and means allocated to the West. Front. Loud orders to K.Z.F. were impossible. They remained bare, useless paper. Management by Z.F. was weak and continued in the same spirit. It was not for nothing that Vasilevsky said about Efremov, “At the mere mention of this name you need to take off your hat.” KK Belov took Vyazma before Efremov, tried to take 11KK from the north, and only then Efremov. The total losses, taking into account the 43rd and 49th armies, are more than 84,5 thousand.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Isaev in his book “Myths and Truth about Marshal Zhukov” writes about himself. “In general,” when they call a book “the truth about something,” it immediately alarms me. If a writer positions himself as a bearer of absolute knowledge, then he is either not very smart, or he belongs not to scientists, but to agitators and propagandists." The book is called Myths and the truth, which category did the author place himself in? "not too smart", or to "agitators-propagandists"?

You clearly misunderstood something or read it in the wrong place.
I remember this text from A. Isaev, but it was written based on V. Safir’s book “The Harsh Truth of War.” Moreover, with the remark that the word “truth”, contrary to the rules of spelling, is written with a capital letter. With a postscript (not verbatim, I don’t want to look it up): don’t cut down the truth - it already hurts.
The book itself by A. Isaev from the series “War and Us” is called “Georgy Zhukov. The King’s Last Argument.”

Quote: Sergei Fonov

General Staff Report on Khalkhin Gol: Actions of the Com. 1 ARM.Groups led by Mr. Zhukov did not meet the requirements of military science. There was no interaction between the military branches. It was only thanks to Stern that we won the victory over the Japanese. VIA No. 5 (53).

Zhukov was sent to Khalkhin Gol not to command the corps, but for the purpose of “checking the condition and combat readiness of units of the 57th separate corps” under the command of Feklenko. Who, based on the results of the audit, was removed from command and appointed G.K. Zhukova.
Khalkhin-Gol became Zhukov's debut as a commander, and his mentor in this difficult task was Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov.
Despite some rough edges, Zhukov’s actions were considered successful and the second replacement of the inspector with the person being inspected (with G.I. Kulik) did not occur. He managed to do without major punctures and maintained the relative stability of the position of the Soviet troops at Khalkhin Gol.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Conclusions of the commission of the Vasilchenko settlement (GS KA) on the death of the Western Wing of the 33rd Army: Operational Plans did not correspond to the availability of forces and means allocated to the West. Front. Loud orders to K.Z.F. were impossible. They remained bare, useless paper. Management by Z.F. was weak and continued in the same spirit.

This commission examined it on the basis of POSTKNOWLEDGE.
And Zhukov made the decision at THAT MOMENT of the information he had that there was no continuous front in this sector and until the enemy pulled up reserves, albeit with weak forces, to break through to Vyazma and capture this important communications hub. With the fall of Vyazma, the enemy's entire defensive order collapsed. Yes, the plan was risky and required decisive and quick action. For competent military leaders, these actions suggested themselves, and both sides made moves in the same direction: the headquarters of the Western Front threw free forces into the gap in the front at Vyaz, and the Germans used the formations released as a result of the retreat of the 4th Tank Army to defend the city.
Efremov failed to cope with this task. He needed to attack in a dense group, initially not caring about supplies. Efremov did not dare to break away from supplies and used up parts of those divisions that were supposed to be part of the army’s strike group to provide the flanks.

[Sergei Fonov]

Zhukov’s logic is known: where failure is the fault of the performers, and where there is victory, everything happened thanks to his brilliant leadership. Gareev: “With all my admiration for Zhukov, I am against such a term “Marshal of Victory”, it is unfair. He was not the only one who won the Victory, we also had the Supreme Civil Code, there were other marshals.” And about “POST-KNOWLEDGE”, there was no post-knowledge, But what Efremov warned about happened, Vasilchenko confirmed it with documents. I’m not going to prove anything to you, there are no wars without losses, but 80 thousand died, not 10 thousand, and this must be remembered.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Zhukov’s logic is known: where failure is the fault of the performers, and where there is victory, everything happened thanks to his brilliant leadership.

And what do you have to do with Zhukov’s logic? We are talking about a scrupulous analysis of documents, facts and decisions made. But Zhukov’s accusers (the same propagandists and agitators, only with the prefix counter. A-ha) only need to grab a few details from the surface and they can amaze the public with their conclusions. At the same time, demonstrating a lack of understanding of the basic principles of conducting operations and ignorance of factual material.
Awards and titles, Zhukov’s brilliant career evokes burning envy and accompanying stories about “dishonestly” received awards. Although, most likely, few would want to change places with him, having become more familiar with the heavy cross that Georgy Konstantinovich bore on himself throughout the war. Quite often he had to abandon a task in which intellectual and physical strength had already been invested, for which command personnel and proven formations had been selected, and urgently fly to the places of problems and crises that arose here and there and disentangle the “brewed mess” of the failures of planning operations by previous "comrades". And difficult sections of the front inevitably meant large losses, which they tend to project onto Zhukov, creating the image of a “butcher.”

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Gareev: “With all my admiration for Zhukov, I am against such a term “Marshal of Victory”, it is unfair. He was not the only one who won the Victory, we also had the Supreme Civil Code, there were other marshals.”

Whether someone likes it or not, Marshal Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov is our national hero. And illiterate attempts to overthrow him from his pedestal are ordinary vandalism. The image of a victorious commander, the embodiment of a dream of success. If you want, like Kutuzov in the Patriotic War of 1812.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

And about “POST-KNOWLEDGE”, there was no post-knowledge, but what Efremov warned about happened, Vasilchenko confirmed it with documents.

What did Efremov warn about? Was he aware of the operational situation across the front, including neighboring ones, in order to give warnings to his superiors?
By the way, about the 39th Army and the 11th Cavalry Corps of S.V., rushing to Vyazma from the north. Much less is known about Sokolov, although from an operational point of view they largely repeated the fate of the 33rd Army and Belov’s corps. Or the offensive operations of the 50th Army, during which several tank brigades were “disarrayed”. There were investigative commissions based on documents from Mr. Vasilchenko? What measures were taken against the “weak command of Z.F.”? Why did such a “weak” commander continue to be sent to the most difficult sectors of the front, and not sent to hell or shot?

[Sergei Fonov]

Not only Isaev, but also others are engaged in scrupulous analysis, who set themselves the goal not of exalting or humiliating historical figures, but of searching for the truth. Is Zhukov the Marshal of Victory, I agree with Gareev, he is not, but this is my opinion, yours is different. After the war, during a group photograph, Stalin took Khrulev from the last row and sat him next to him, saying that without his work there would have been no victories for you.
“What did Efremov warn about?”
The fact that the flanks were left without cover, for the offensive it was necessary to replenish the group with l / s and ammunition, the “catastrophic” situation with supplies was known to everyone, Shaposhnikov and Zhukov and Sokolovsky. So why is Efremov alone to blame? Why did Zhukov write such a characterization about him? I don't think I wanted to answer. There is still an answer - this is a trophy case with 7 fixed carriages, the 300 pairs of new women's shoes are especially touching. In my opinion, it is shameful to make a marshal who has sunk into looting as a national hero. But shame and propaganda are two different things. However, the facts speak for themselves. No need to repeat myself.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Not only Isaev, but also others are engaged in scrupulous analysis, who set themselves the goal not of exalting or humiliating historical figures, but of searching for the truth.

Isaev wrote in his works that he had nothing against constructive criticism of the marshal. For example, the same Vasilchenko, who accused Zhukov that at Vyazma he acted with “spread fingers” instead of “powerful fists” and where the armies “acted without close coordination with their neighbors,” etc.
But Vasilchenko could not understand Zhukov’s plan, who understood that no strike fists from rifle formations were capable of deep breakthroughs and envelopment of the enemy, who could easily and quickly parry and block them. Instead, Zhukov decided to cut the enemy group near Yukhnov into several parts. This reduced the depth of advance into the enemy’s defenses and the task of creating an encirclement became closer to reality. In a word, Zhukov planned the depth of attacks in proportion to the capabilities of the armies, consisting of rifle formations and infantry support tanks.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

The fact that the flanks were left without cover, for the offensive it was necessary to replenish the group with l / s and ammunition, the “catastrophic” situation with supplies was known to everyone, Shaposhnikov and Zhukov and Sokolovsky.

I have already written to you what Efremov should have done according to the commander’s plan - to break through as quickly as possible and capture Vyazma, not paying attention to the rear and flanks. Cling on and hold on until the last opportunity. Isaev wrote that it was a personnel miscalculation by Zhukov. What was needed here was a commander with “cavalry thinking.” The combat use of mobile formations has its own specifics, and stretching and temporary interruption of communications is a common occurrence for them.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Why did Zhukov write such a characterization of him? I don't think I wanted to answer. There is still an answer - this is a captured case with 7 fixed cars,

What are you talking about, comrade? What is the connection between the “trophy case” and the offensive near Vyazma? Let us repeat the lesson again: the characterization of Efremov and other comrades was written the day before the offensive.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

In my opinion, it is shameful to make a national hero out of a marshal who has descended into looting. But shame and propaganda are two different things.

In the same way, different things are lumped together --- professional and personal characteristics of a person. It is somehow not customary for us to advertise the activities of Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria in organizing the evacuation to the rear of industry from the western regions to the deep rear. And also when he was supervising the “nuclear project” of the USSR, but instead they began to discuss some of his allegedly “rumored” bad things.
As for the trophy business, here on the website there is a detailed article “General’s Business”:
https://topwar.ru/96286-generalskoe-delo.html?ysclid=lsh76pqhya406847146
All the best.

[Sergei Fonov]

You can write anything to me. The General Staff recognized Vasilchenko’s conclusions as correct. “The lack of reserves in the Polar Fleet, without which it could not influence the course of operations. The Western group of the 33rd Army fought honestly and valiantly to the end.” It’s bad that the Polar Fleet commander Zhukov didn’t ask the Germans what they thought about his plan, and the two cavalry commanders with "thinking", even with the cavalry corps there were Belov and Sokolov. There are orders that can be fulfilled, and there are those that cannot be fulfilled. In such cases, Zhukov wrote that they did not take into account the geographical features of the area. In this case, Zhukov did not take into account either the height of the snow cover, or the absence of armored vehicles, or the fact that he took 33 divisions and part of the artillery from the 2rd Army. Zhukov wrote the characterization of Efremov 10 days after the order to attack. There is a connection, a decent person cannot become a looter, and if he is like that, then he can write anything, and against anyone, as he did later, taking credit for himself in the war, even for those operations in which he did not participate, and assenting to Khrushchev, he subsequently wrote letters of repentance.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Zhukov wrote the characterization of Efremov 10 days after the order to attack. There is a connection, a decent person cannot become a looter, and if he is like that, then he can write anything, and against anyone,

You got along just like in that “fairy tale about the white bull.” I wrote out the chronology in the column above that the description was written 11 days after receiving the order, but 1 day before the start of the offensive. The offensive did not begin immediately after the order, but 12 days later.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

a decent person cannot become a looter,

I gave you a link to the article above that everyone from privates to senior command personnel took part in the removal of “trophy property.” Then, according to your logic, it turns out that the Red Army, almost in full force, is a bunch of scoundrels and dishonest people. But I repeat to you once again that there is no connection between professionalism and personal qualities. How the same talented and beloved singer Lidiya Ruslanova ended up in prison for selling “trophy” clothes.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

It’s too bad that ZF commander Zhukov didn’t ask the Germans what they thought about his plan,

The Germans themselves had ideas on how to close the hole in the Vyazma area. The very fact that the Germans removed two tank divisions from the front and sent them to Vyazma does not at all indicate the idiocy of Zhukov’s decision.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

There are orders that can be fulfilled, and there are those that cannot be fulfilled. In such cases, Zhukov wrote that they did not take into account the geographical features of the area.

Impossible even more so when you do not do what is required of you - to rush with all your might towards Vyazma. Efremov’s army, who did not want to break away from supplies, was a “gut” stretched from west to east, occupying a front of 30 km and a depth of 80 km.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

nor the fact that he took 33 divisions and part of the artillery from the 2rd Army.

The delay in organizing a breakthrough cost Efremov one division assigned for reinforcement - the 9th Guards SD. Whether this maneuver was agreed upon with Zhukov or whether the commander of the 43rd Army simply persuaded division commander Beloborodov to stay to carry out his task is now unknown. Or maybe the division stayed with Zhukov’s permission for one day, and the corridor to the main forces of Efremov’s army remained cut the very next day and the 9th Guards. SD was unable to reach Vyazma through this corridor. Attempts to break through with the division's forces were unsuccessful. Moreover, the headquarters of the 33rd Army, instead of leading the army’s strike group in the rush to Vyazma, sits in Iznoski and withdraws for its protection regiments from the formations allocated by order of the front headquarters for the attack on Vyazma. Moreover, the most complete regiment was confiscated.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

as he did later, taking credit for the war, even for those operations in which he did not participate

He may not have participated in them directly, but this does not mean that he did not take part in the development of the plan.

[Sergei Fonov]

For me personally, and not only for me, the conclusion of the Vasilchenko commission, approved by the General Staff, is of much greater value. Zhukov visited all the armies of the Polar Front, but he never visited the “bad” Efremov. I have already read from Isaev that there is no connection between personal qualities and professionalism. Ruslanova is not the only favorite, Pugacheva is also a favorite. There were different people in the spacecraft, after the capture of Königsberg, the grandfather, as part of the squad, inspected the houses for weapons and hidden Germans, he and his friend came out empty, and 4 people with their hands full, the Germans from the roofs fired first of all at those who took the property, and not those who had weapons ready. Rokossovsky describes how Zhukov answered him at the Kursk Bulge that he was in command of the front and the decision was his, but in his memoirs Zhukov writes that it was he who gave the order to begin artillery preparation. I think if Rokossovsky had not defeated the Germans, he could well have received a bad certification, but Zhukov argued that Rokossovsky did not take part in the development of the operation. Zhukov’s fantasy of leaving Kyiv, when Zhukov and Mekhlis were not with Stalin on July 29. They are not in the visitor book. The computer is buggy, but you can write a lot like that.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

For me personally, and not only for me, the conclusion of the Vasilchenko commission, approved by the General Staff, has much greater value.

So I asked you why such a “mediocre commander” as Zhukov was not removed from command of the troops, and in his place they did not put such a professional as Col. Vasilchenko, just as at Khalkhin Gol Feklenko was replaced by Zhukov?
I have already given you the example of a study by Makhmud Gareev, who writes: “For example, they said that during the counter-offensive near Moscow, Zhukov’s Western Front suffered more losses than Konev’s Kalinin Front (ZF - 100 thousand and KF - 27 thousand) But at the same time they kept silent about the fact that the Polar Fleet had more than 700 thousand people, and Kalininsky - 190 thousand. If we take losses as a percentage of the total number of troops, the picture turns out completely different. The irretrievable losses of the Polar Fleet under the command of Zhukov are 13,5 .14,2% of the total number of troops, and Kalininsky - XNUMX%."
Zhukov knew what he was doing. And he did. Unlike the commissions that checked him.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

There were different people in the spacecraft, after the capture of Königsberg, the grandfather, as part of the squad, inspected houses for the presence of weapons and hidden Germans, he and his friend came out empty, and 4 people with their hands full, the Germans from the roofs fired first of all at those who took the property, and not those who had weapons ready.

Well, just another front-line story. Some stupid Germans were caught from the roof. Because, probably, it would have been necessary to first fire at those who had weapons at the ready.
I also caught the time when some veterans or their heirs showed off their “trophy” things. All sorts of German watches, lighters, cigarette cases, etc. small things.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Rokossovsky describes how Zhukov answered him at the Kursk Bulge that he was in command of the front and the decision was his, but in his memoirs Zhukov writes that it was he who gave the order to begin artillery preparation.

Isaev repeatedly noted in his works that one must approach various types of memoir literature with caution. You need to rely on documents and combat orders, and not on someone who said something to someone.
The consequences for the Germans of this preventive artillery bombardment are greatly exaggerated in order to focus attention on it.
Just like Operation Bagration is attributed almost to Rokosovsky alone. Although Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Antonov, Malinovsky took part in its development and coordination of the fronts.

[Sergei Fonov]

Why was Zhukov not removed from Command? Why was Pavlov shot? Why weren’t Konev, Eremenko, Kozlov suspended? Why are there so many of them? Why did Tymoshenko and Zhukov poorly prepare the troops? Why are the Border Guards heroes, and Beria the enemy? Everyone wants to look perfect in their memoirs, Zhukov is no exception, his memories attract many researchers, and have long been studied, especially where he writes about meetings with Stalin, but comparing the log of visitors and the marshal’s memoirs it turns out that Zhukov did not always write accurately. Memoirs must be treated with caution, and the same can be said about Isaev’s works. Do not make yourself an idol.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

.....why there are so many of them.

So there were reasons for that. Such prominent military leaders as Civil Budyonny and Voroshilov were effectively out of work as commanders. And Hitler has von Bock, Guderian and Hepner, who were previously strewn with laurels.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

especially where he writes about meetings with Stalin, but comparing the log of visitors and the marshal’s memoirs, it turns out that Zhukov did not always write accurately. TO

Zhukov could not remember all these dates exactly from memory. But our furious accusers immediately interpret that Zhukov stupidly (for some reason?) lied.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Memoirs must be treated with caution, and the same can be said about Isaev’s works.

Isaev did not write his memoirs, but read the memoirs of others, studied documents, analyzed them and drew his conclusions on the pages of his books.. But you write that:

For me personally, and not only for me, the conclusion of the Vasilchenko commission, approved by the General Staff, has much greater value.

And if they also had access to archival documents of the Germans, as Alexey Isaev was able to do several decades later, then their conclusions would be more objective.
I already wrote to you that Zhukov acted according to the information that he had at that time. But waving your fists after a fight, as Vasilchenko did with his commission, is such a thing...

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Why did Tymoshenko and Zhukov poorly prepare the troops?

The main reason for the defeats of 1941 was the fragmentation of the Red Army into three echelons without operational communication with each other. The Nazis had numerical superiority over each echelon. And each echelon had a formation density unsuitable for either defense or offensive. Scientifically, this is called “anticipatory deployment.” There was only one option for counteraction: counterattacks by mechanized formations, which could be quickly directed at the flanks of tank wedges. However, the effectiveness of these counterattacks left much to be desired due to the imperfection of the organizational structure of the mechanical formations and their lack of mobilization. The situation was aggravated by problems with reconnaissance, both air and ground.
The Red Army received a blow in an underdeveloped state, trying to stop the German advance at a density of 30 - 50 km per division was not realistic. You can only carry out restraining actions, rolling back from line to line and trading time for space and gradually biting out pieces of the enemy’s troops.

[Sergei Fonov]

Isaev is an ordinary anti-Stalinist, like Novodvorskaya, Zhukov with his lies, a symbol of resistance to Stalin, who could fight “only across the globe.” Judging by Zhukov’s letters, for him at first Stalin was an ideal, then Khrushchev became an ideal. Stalin previously said that it is not power that changes a person and spoils him, the trouble is that spoiled people strive for power. It was not Zhukov who saved the USSR, it was Stalin who saved the country, his ability to organize the work of the rear and the front for victory. Zhukov only carried out the decisions of the State Defense Committee within the limits of his authority, as he commanded, there are memories of other commanders, and not always flattering for Zhukov, especially Eremenko. To be a Marshal of Victory, commanding a front at the final stage of the war is not enough. And even that capture of Berlin was successful thanks to the fronts of Rokossovsky and Konev, so we can consider that we have 3 marshals of Victory, or we simply had marshals in the spacecraft who won the war.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Isaev is an ordinary anti-Stalinist,

Ostap suffered.... Isaev never spoke badly about Stalin. At least, nothing so furious, except maybe criticism of some miscalculations in management. But not as a politician.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

It was not Zhukov who saved the USSR, it was Stalin who saved the country, his ability to organize the work of the rear and the front for victory.

Everyone had enough stocks. Stalin alone, in PRINCIPLE, could not become the “savior of the Fatherland.” Otherwise, it turns out that “the king is good, the boyars are bad.” Stalin organized everything: both the work of the rear and the front for victory, but only Zhukov and Timoshenko interfered with him. A-ha.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Zhukov only carried out the decisions of the State Defense Committee within the limits of his powers,

A-ha. In the role of "crisis manager". Others were somehow not eager for this role.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

how he commanded there are memories of other commanders, and not always flattering for Zhukov, especially Eremenko.

I gave you the figures of Makhmud Gareev, as commanded by Zhukov. But you turned on “The Tale of the White Bull” again. By the way, in his memoirs, Zhukov tried to speak tactfully about his subordinates. How about the same Efremov.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

To be a Marshal of Victory, commanding a front at the final stage of the war is not enough.

What, what.... ?

Quote: Sergei Fonov

And even then the capture of Berlin was successful thanks to the fronts of Rokossovsky and Konev,

How does Rokossovsky relate to the storming of Berlin? He operated in a different direction, to the north, and was engaged in the Vistula Army group, with the goal of preventing its breakthrough to Berlin, throwing it back to the north and destroying it.
Konev was given the task: “Prepare and conduct an offensive operation with the aim of defeating the enemy group in the Cottbus area and south of Berlin.”
You don’t know the material, you’re just throwing out some propaganda cliches about “stupid butcher Zhukov” from the manual of the same Novodvorskaya and others like her. Only she has them together with Stalin.

[Sergei Fonov]

The forces of 3 fronts took part in the Berlin offensive operation, also the Dnieper flotilla and formations of the Baltic Fleet, and 4 air armies, and 2 B. Rokossovsky’s Front covered the northern flank from the 3rd German Tank Army. In one thing, you are right, the task of taking Berlin was before Zhukov, but he did not complete the task assigned to him, Konev rescued him with a blow from the south, but no one could rescue Efremov in 1942, Zhukov had no reserves then. “Stupid butcher Zhukov” - these are your words, I have never written like that anywhere. Earlier it was said that during Operation Mars Zhukov tied up part of the German forces that could be transferred to Stalingrad, this is true. And Rokossovsky’s front, which covered Zhukov’s northern flank not hundreds of kilometers away, but with direct contact of troops, turns out to have nothing to do with it, the logic is quite strange, or rather it is not visible at all. In the battles in Berlin, as Lieutenant General Telegin said at a scientific and historical conference in 1946, according to reports, units of the 1st BF destroyed 2 times more tanks than the Germans had. My opinion Zhukov could hush up his mistakes and forgive himself for them, he did not allow others to do this. Under Stalin, other marshals still supported him, under Khrushchev he was left alone, no one came out in his defense. We will find out the truth about the war when the archives are opened, for now it is a half-truth.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

....No one could help Efremov out in 1942; Zhukov had no reserves then.

In descriptions of the battle of Moscow, “accusers” and critics throw arrows at the Western commander. Front G, K, Zhukov for pushing the 33rd Army and the 1st Guards in the direction of Vyazma with harsh orders. cavalry corps However, the commander of the Kalinin Front, I.S., avoids critical arrows. Konev, who in the same way urged the 39th Army and Gorin’s cavalry group to attack Vyazma.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

In one thing, you are right, the task of taking Berlin was facing Zhukov, but he did not complete the task assigned to him, Konev rescued him with a blow from the south.

In the Berlin operation, Konev was similarly forgiven for his rather irresponsible act of trying to be the first to enter the German capital. The blame was quickly placed on the “fool bosses” in the person of J.V. Stalin, who allegedly organized a race of two fronts to Berlin. However, the directives of the headquarters did not contain the task of the 1st Ukrainian Front to capture Berlin. The push to Berlin was undertaken by Konev on his own initiative. As he himself admits in his memoirs, it would be unwise to leave an exposed flank while advancing along the southern outskirts of Berlin. But if you look at the map, Konev’s troops advanced 65 km from this outskirts. Wow, outskirts!
The city of Berlin was located almost in the middle of the zone of responsibility of the 1st BF and there was no need to shift one front to the middle of the zone of the other front.
When the 1st BF got stuck on the Seelow Heights, Konev’s troops managed to relatively easily break through the enemy’s defenses on the Neisse River, which had been preparing for less time, and began to launch an offensive towards the strike force of the 1st BF. On April 17, Headquarters allowed part of the forces of the 3rd Guards to turn to Berlin. TA from the south, but Konev gives the order to attack two armies at once. In fact, Konev tried to change the form of the operation and deploy the 4th Guards. That one from the outer front of the encirclement to Berlin. But under the attack of Wenck’s 12th Army, this idea had to be abandoned. However, Konev’s decisions had already begun to lag, the enemy’s defenses on the Seelow Heights were breached and the troops of the 1st BF entered the outskirts of Berlin. However, there is no doubt that the outburst of the commander of the neighboring front was negatively perceived by Zhukov. He understood perfectly well that violating the original operation plan could lead to fatal consequences.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

And Rokossovsky’s front, which covered Zhukov’s northern flank not hundreds of kilometers away, but with direct contact of troops, turns out to have nothing to do with it, the logic is quite strange,

Each acted on his own sector of the front for common success. It would be strange and illogical if Rokossovsky was sitting on the sidelines at this time. He was given the task of defeating the northern enemy group. It is indirectly related to the storming of Berlin.

[Sergei Fonov]

On April 1, at a meeting at headquarters, Stalin demarcated the offensive zones of the fronts on a map. After delaying the offensive on the Seelow Heights for 2 days, Stalin gave the go-ahead for Konev to turn to Berlin. Zhukov changed the Stavka plan and launched a frontal attack. On the second day after stopping the offensive, he ordered two tank armies to attack the heights; the tanks, following the order, crushed their infantry, causing chaos on the roads. The tanks moved up the mountain in zigzags, exposing their sides to the German artillery corps armed with 50,75,88 mm guns. Katukov killed 8 thousand tankers, 4 brigade commanders, 22 battalion commanders, several regiment commanders, more than 200 tanks burned down. The Headquarters Plan did not include a focus on armored vehicles. According to Katukov, the 9th Assault Aviation Corps played a huge role in the assault. Artillery preparation before the assault was carried out poorly, the Germans retreated and the firing points survived. The most successful commander, judging by 61 salutes out of 363 in WWII, was Rokossovsky.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

On April 1, at a meeting at headquarters, Stalin demarcated the offensive zones of the fronts on a map. After delaying the offensive on the Seelow Heights for 2 days, Stalin gave the go-ahead for Konev to turn to Berlin. Zhukov changed the Stavka plan and launched a frontal attack.

You see, Sergei, breaking both lines of German defense on the Seelow Heights, which had been prepared since February 1945, in one day would be a great success.
From the first day of the operation, Zhukov acted according to the plan approved by Headquarters. The plan and form of the Berlin operation was never a secret. Already in one of the first studies one can read the following: “The simultaneous dissection of the entire surrounded Berlin group into two parts was supposed to be achieved by a strike from the left flank formations of the 1st BF in the general direction to the SOUTH outskirts of Berlin and Brandenburg. The successful execution of this maneuver greatly facilitated the task of capturing Berlin, since a significant part of the enemy forces (the main forces of the 9th and 4th TA of the Germans) would not be able to take part in the fight for the city, because she would find herself isolated and surrounded in the forests southeast of Berlin.”
The technique of cutting off and encircling the defenders of a large city or strategically important point was a common practice in conducting operations during WWII. The difficulties of fighting in the city were obvious and the attacker tried with all his might to reduce the number of its defenders. Therefore, in the Berlin operation, attacks on all fronts were built in order to cut off the capital of the Third Reich from German troops on the near and far approaches to Berlin.
That is why Zhukov was FORCED, under the pressure of circumstances, to choose the direction of the main attack through the Seelow Heights. It was necessary to get through to a junction with Konev as quickly as possible and with the forces of tank and combined arms formations to form a barrier on the retreat route of a sufficiently large and combat-ready group of German troops to the defensive structures of Berlin. If this could not be done, then large formations would have retreated to Berlin (which in reality were defeated in the “Halba Cauldron” or bombarded with shells on the Seelow Heights), then the armies that stormed Berlin would have washed themselves in blood.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

On the second day after stopping the offensive, he ordered two tank armies to attack the heights; the tanks, following the order, crushed their infantry, causing chaos on the roads. The tanks moved up the mountain in zigzags, exposing their sides to the German artillery corps armed with 50,75,88 mm guns.

Horses and people mixed together...
Where did you read this nonsense? What about Rezun-Suvorov? Especially about the “artillery corps” of anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns.

The introduction of tank armies into battle for the second lane was not some kind of exceptional event. A significant part of the operations involving tank armies took place precisely with the introduction into battle, and not into a breakthrough. I note that Zhukov was a supporter of introducing the success development echelon in the form of tank armies into a clean breakthrough. However, in the Berlin operation, literally in the first hours of the offensive, he abandoned this scheme.
During the Berlin offensive operation, the Red Army's losses were TWO times less than those of the Germans.

[Sergei Fonov]

Before writing, you need to understand that the 1st BF had the task of taking Berlin. The Seelow Heights were in the offensive zone, and the road to Berlin lay through the 9rd Heights. According to the TA plan, the headquarters attacked from the north and northeast. Katukov VIA No. 10-2007 1 spoke about the Art Corps. When there is nothing to say, they start writing all sorts of “nonsense”, I return your Rezun to you. There is Marshal B of the troops Babajanyan “The hatches were opened in Berlin”, in addition to Rezun, you will also read Chuikov, his memoirs. The “Halba Cauldron” and its destruction were planned by the Headquarters, and this will be done by units of the 1st UV and 2BF, Konev will throw the XNUMXnd air army of his front to destroy it. Earlier you wrote that Konev should not go to Berlin, now write that Zhukov was trying to go to Berlin to connect with Konev??? Apparently YOU draw knowledge from "Rezunov". If you don’t know what to write, it’s better not to write, if you wrote about losses, give the numbers, you can write twice, if your creativity consists of rewriting Isaev, it’s not worth the effort. It seems that you stood next to Zhukov, and he and Isaev told you what decisions he made.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Before writing, you need to understand that the 1st BF had the task of taking Berlin. The Seelow Heights were in the offensive zone, and the road to Berlin lay through the XNUMXrd Heights. According to the plan, TA headquarters attacked from the north and northeast.
Earlier you wrote that Konev should not go to Berlin, now write that Zhukov was trying to go to Berlin to connect with Konev???

You are poorly absorbing the material that I am trying to convey to you.
I must repeat to you again that the encirclement of the Berlin group was carried out from all directions of the world: “Therefore, in the Berlin operation, attacks on all fronts were built in order to cut off the capital of the Third Reich from German troops on the near and far approaches to Berlin.” . That is, from the north too. But the main blow was aimed at cutting off a large enemy group located south of Berlin. The task was to, together with the 1st UV, operating in its offensive zone, put these troops in a “bag” and not allow them to retreat to Berlin. In this case, the city would find itself defended primarily by a garrison consisting of beardless Hitler Youth, gray-haired Volkssturmists and the remnants of units withdrawn from the Seelow Heights.
The task of cutting off the defenders from the capital of the Third Reich was not easy due to the SMALL distance separating the 4th Panzer and 9th German armies from Berlin. Therefore, it was necessary to break through to the junction with Konev ASAP and create a barrier on the retreat route of a sufficiently large and combat-ready group of German troops to the defensive structures of Berlin. This problem could be solved ONLY by moving mechanized parts. Is it really that hard to understand?
Zhukov sought to connect with Konev not in Berlin, but on the immediate approaches to Berlin. Konev’s task was, together with Zhukov, to slam the “cauldron” and create an external front of encirclement. But he, seeing that Zhukov was somewhat late, began to persuade Stalin to allow him to approach Berlin from the south in large forces. Finally, in the evening, permission was granted and Konev gave the order for an attack on Berlin not only by units of the 3rd Guards. TA, but also the 4th Guards. TA Lelyushenko. On the outer front of the encirclement only the 1st quarter remained. cavalry corps, which did not go unpunished, and significant forces of the 4th Guards. The TA had to be used to repel the attack of Wenck's 12th Army.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Katukov VIA No. 9-10 2007 spoke about the Art Corps. When there is nothing to say, they start writing all sorts of “nonsense”, I return your Rezun to you. There is Marshal B of the troops Babajanyan, “The hatches were opened in Berlin,” besides Rezun, you will also read Chuikov,

I also already wrote to you that you need to trust memoir literature with caution. And Zhukov as well. In addition to objective information, they contain a personal “value judgment” with embellishments of their merits, hushing up inconvenient moments and all sorts of inaccuracies such as about “artillery corps of anti-tank guns.”

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Apparently YOU draw knowledge from "Rezunov"

No, I prefer Alexei Isaev, but your arguments largely coincide with the “research” of this character and others like him.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

It seems that you stood next to Zhukov, and he and Isaev told you what decisions he made.

This is evidenced by documents and orders from published archives. As well as Zhukov’s personal memoirs, where he wrote: “It should be emphasized the significant role of the 1st Guards TA of the 1st BF, which, having reached the south-eastern outskirts of Berlin, cut off the retreat routes of the 9th Army to Berlin. This made it easier further struggle in the city itself." The 1st Tank Army was not rushing to the Reichstag, but to intercept communications.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

If you don’t know what to write, it’s better not to write, write about losses, give numbers, you can write twice, if your work consists of rewriting Isaev,

There is "Google", put into the search bar "Losses of the Red Army in the Berlin Operation" and study. Similar to “German losses during the storming of Berlin by the Red Army.”
There's plenty of information there. For example: "Military Thought"
Human losses of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in the Berlin operation.
https://vm.ric.mil.ru/Stati/item/254166/?ysclid=lsybdels5j970338630

[Sergei Fonov]

It seemed to me that you were interested in the topic, and you were just some kind of ode to Isaev. WWII veterans write lies, only Zhukov and Isaev are saints, but in essence there is nothing. Spacecraft losses on the 33rd Heights alone amounted to 12 thousand, Germans 1 tons. The losses of the 4BF during XNUMX days of fighting at the heights amounted to half of all irretrievable losses on all fronts in the Berlin operation. It is for the battles in the Western War that some historians call Zhukov a “butcher.” Since your comments are not of a historical nature, but purely propaganda, I am interrupting communication.

[Askold65]

Quote: Sergei Fonov

It seemed to me that you were interested in the topic, and you were just some kind of ode to Isaev.

No not like this. Isaev writes “Ode” to Zhukov, refuting Zhukov’s “accusers”. I was just trying to convey information to you on this topic.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

WWII veterans write lies, only Zhukov and Isaev are saints, but in essence there is nothing.

Veterans of the Second World War write their own truth, accessible to them, with their own vision of those events. Not always objective due to the inaccessibility of the whole picture within the entire front, which is available to the High Command. Hence all the theories about “fool commanders”.
There is also another truth --- from the enemy. For example, Manstein with his “Lost Victories”. I saw this book on a store shelf, but I didn’t want to read it. But there, as the researchers write, there is also enough post-knowledge and criticism of top management.

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Spacecraft losses on the 33rd Heights alone amounted to 12 thousand, Germans 1 tons. The losses of the 4BF during XNUMX days of fighting at the heights amounted to half of all irretrievable losses on all fronts in the Berlin operation.

I wrote to you about the general losses in the Berlin offensive operation, and you about the losses on a separate, MOST DIFFICULT sector of the front. These losses could have been MULTIPLE!!! more if it had not been possible to cut off a large group from Berlin.
Or should you once again write the loss statistics from Gareev about Zhukov’s skill level in relation to other commanders? Who is the bigger “butcher” on the battlefield?

Quote: Sergei Fonov

Since your comments are not of a historical nature, but purely propaganda, I will interrupt the communication.

You have read a lot of propaganda and for some reason all the arguments based on research and analysis of documents from both Soviet and German archives do not suit you. But the “truth” of memoirs and other pop literature fits quite well.

[Askold65]

Losses at the Seelow Heights, Isaev notes, are often confused with losses in the entire Berlin operation. And he recalls that the irretrievable losses of Soviet troops in it amounted to 80 people, and the total losses - 000 people. These are the losses of three fronts advancing in a strip 360 km wide, i.e. 000st Belorussian (commander - Zhukov), 300st Ukrainian (commander - Konev) and 1nd Belorussian (commander - Rokossovsky). To narrow these losses down to just a patch of the Seelow Heights is simply stupid. The only stupid thing is to turn 1 total losses into 2 killed. In reality, the total losses of the 300th Guards and 000th armies during the offensive in the Seelow Heights area amounted to about 300 people, and irretrievable losses - approximately 000 people. So much for Zhukov the “butcher”.
I have the honor.

[Mishka78]

Quote: Arzt

My son-in-law went and brought money and bought a plot of land. Now he is driving him back there and his husband at the same time.

How did he manage to return from there? Just wondering. I hear from everywhere that even volunteers are not released. An acquaintance signed a contract for 6 months, but he has been there for more than 1,5 years, although he already wanted to not sign the next one twice, but they threaten him with prison and have to extend it.

[Doctor]

How did he manage to return from there? Just wondering. I hear from everywhere that even volunteers are not released. An acquaintance signed a contract for 6 months, but he has been there for more than 1,5 years, although he already wanted to not sign the next one twice, but they threaten him with prison and have to extend it.

Vacation. Now there is an option for security, but here they pay 60, like an ordinary contract worker.

[tsvetahaki]

I found it in an article here

Some have liquid cabbage soup, and some have small diamonds
Well, some have problems, and some have growing incomes. The wealth of the country's richest people has increased by 50 billion and clearly not by rubles.
"Alekperov - +$9,29 billion (total $24,7 billion); Melnichenko - +$5,67 billion (total $17,42 billion); Lisin - +$4,08 billion (total $23,9 billion); Fedun - +$3,91 .9,78 billion (total $2,83 billion); Mikhelson - +$27,5 billion (total $XNUMX billion)."

Not bad, not bad and very effective

[AUL]

Quote: Vladimir M

One also gets the feeling that someone is deliberately and very intelligently delaying the implementation of the SVO.

Look for who benefits - the old truth!

[Vladimir M]

Putin's entourage? Well, it’s not Biden who is delaying the SVO.

[Russian]

Why do you think it's not Biden? Rus' is slaughtering each other, overseas they are enjoying it. It benefits them.

[Victor Leningradets]

...Yes, taking care of people is the number one task...

In war, task number one is achieving the goals within the given time frame. Reducing collateral losses in every possible way is the art of commanders.

[Askold65]

Quote: Victor Leningradets

In war, task number one is achieving the goals within the given time frame. Reducing collateral losses in every possible way is the art of commanders.

“Victory lies not simply in capturing the battlefield, but in the physical and moral destruction of the enemy’s armed forces.” - Carl von Clausewitz

[Zoer]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

But did you look at the map? Can everyone compare the pace of advance and the area in hectares? Yes, even the liberation of four new regions will take ten years, no less. And people see and understand this.

Look at the history. In WWII, the Germans sat on the defensive for years, the same positional battles for several years in one place. And then in less than a month they were blown away.
During the Second World War, the Germans kept Leningrad surrounded for 900 days, and then after the January Thunder operation and the Novgorod-Luga offensive, they scuttled very far and quickly.

[FoBoss_VM]

You don't seem to understand what's going on at all? What does the experience of WWI and WWII have to do with it?

[Zoer]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

You don't seem to understand what's going on at all? What does the experience of WWI and WWII have to do with it?

So, did the laws of physics change with WWI and WWII? And I see you understand everything.
And experience shows that protracted positional battles ultimately end with the collapse of one of the sides’ defenses and the immediate loss of everything.

[shikin]

I will repeat the well-known saying: the goal of war is not territory, but the enemy army.
If the enemy army is not defeated, then the capture of territories will mean little. If the army is defeated, then the territories will not be a problem. And how necessary is it to seize territories? A friendly, controlled administration and strict control over the armed forces and industry (as well as ideology) are enough. This requires a radical change of power in Ukraine and a gradual, controlled reformatting of the entire state and society.

[Gardamir]

In 2014, Ukrainian tanks were driven using bicycles. And what?
Look at how much ours took in 2022 and how much they gave during regroupings. But then the Ukrainian army did not have even half of what the Kremlin allowed it to have.

[shikin]

So that’s the point - captured territory when the enemy army is combat-ready is always a temporary phenomenon. As examples - 1812 and 1941.

[nickname7]

The goal of war is not territory, but the enemy army.

Not really, the territory, that is, the rear, can supply mob resources, repair, manufacture equipment and ammunition.

[bk316]

Yes, even the liberation of four new regions will take ten years, no less

This is the reasoning of a fifth grader. In mathematics it is called incorrect linear extrapolation.
Simply put, why did you decide that the process is linear in time?

And here Shoigu “criticized” defense top managers for disrupting the state defense order.

About Shoigu is a separate question altogether. It was purely a show for the public. What does not look good on the Minister of Defense.
Yes, the coalition was needed for a long time, but the transmash did not disrupt the state defense order. If you listen carefully, after Shoigu’s tirade about the need for a coalition at the front, the head of Transmash clearly answered that the plans are being fulfilled, and Shoigu, in turn, let’s accept the increased ones. But the journalists cut it all out.

[Dilettante grandfather]

I am far from the idea of ​​driving our men forward into the embrasures, sabers drawn. But everyone, including me, wants the SVO to be carried out faster. I understand perfectly well that our offensive is underway. And I understand why it was necessary to hold the defense and not push forward. But the situation is twofold: ours seem to be doing everything right, and there is no doubt about victory, but the enemy still continues to shell our territory. It is precisely because of this that we want our troops to advance. To quickly eliminate the possibility for the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strike our people.

[Sergei_Bely]

To quickly eliminate the possibility for the Ukrainian Armed Forces to strike our people.

How to do it?
Our artillery is twice as outranged, warships are destroyed by drones that are incomparably positioned with the ships, and there is still no communication. But everything is going according to plan! The only question is “whose plan was it?”
Here one commentator wrote about the example of the Gaza Strip. I agree with him, but this should have been done initially with all the major cities of the Western region.
But now it turned out that those people whom we were supposed to free, our soldiers had to destroy in difficult battles. Since no one took into account the repressive capabilities of the enemy state and the weakness of the human personality. Now they hate us.
With all this, all the leaders of the enemy state are out of reach. More precisely, they are not touched. And why? It seems like it’s not the 12th century... Why are we again seeing commoners with whom you can do whatever you want, and the “upper class” who live in gedanistic joys?
So it turns out that instead of destroying the entire enemy leadership in the first hours, expensive, unparalleled missiles were sent to empty airfields and fake targets. And then everyone can see what’s happening and how!

[Dilettante grandfather]

But everything is going according to plan! The only question is “whose plan was it?”

I don't have an answer to this question.
Why don't they touch the enemy's leadership? I think they are saving it for the tribunal. And because the real leadership is in London and Washington.

Here one commentator wrote about the example of the Gaza Strip. I agree with him, but this should have been done initially with all the major cities of the Western region.

After which the entire West would howl about genocide, violation of international norms, and would declare our entire leadership war criminals... Do you think that this would add more allies to us?.. The blows would fall on the civilian population. With all the obvious consequences.

[zyablik.olga]

Another water from the political officer...
Regarding this:" Why is logic more important than emotions in war? ", then one very intelligent person who lived more than 2000 years ago voiced everything:

If there is no benefit, don't move; if you cannot get it, do not use troops; if there is no danger, do not fight. The sovereign should not raise weapons because of his anger; a general should not go into battle because of his anger. They move when it corresponds to the benefit; if this does not correspond to the benefit, remain in place.


War loves victory and hates duration.

It has never happened that a war lasted a long time and that would be beneficial to the state. Therefore, one who does not fully understand all the harm from war cannot fully understand the full benefits of war.

The best battle is the one that never happened.

It’s a pity that those who make decisions in our country consider themselves great geopoliticians and haven’t read Sun Tzu

[paul3390]

Tactics without strategy are just vanity before defeat... (c)

[Mazunga]

Olga is a great comment, but here the benefits are simply not visible to everyone while the Professor was sitting on the throne in Ukraine, our smart posons were quietly squeezing out the most diverse businesses Lukoil gas stations were like dirt Sber worked Megafon networks with VimpelCom shared in Truskavets ours quietly acquired holiday homes of all sorts of titanium deposits were developed under our affectionate gaze, etc.))) in short, the Ukrainians only had loans and huts; everything else was no longer so clear)) and then Gunpowder comes and begins to squeeze out our companies from their established poles with the help of nationally nailed imbeciles. Some people resell their assets to themselves, but with Austrian roots, who simply salmonized the tuna, but the sediment, as you understand, remained in the end, in the end we still trade with fascists, albeit through gaskets, and in general, how many ethnic Ukrainians can you name in the government of Ukraine? mean)? It’s more and more complicated there, it’s more fun and everyone has gesheft in any way.

[AUL]

Alexander, the dot on the keyboard is in the lower right corner. The comma is in the same place, but with a shift.
Have respect for the people who have to read you!

[bk316]

It’s a pity that those who make decisions in our country consider themselves great geopoliticians and haven’t read Sun Tzu sad

Who among us hasn’t read Sun Tzu?

[fif21]

Quote: bk316

It’s a pity that those who make decisions in our country consider themselves great geopoliticians and haven’t read Sun Tzu sad

Who among us hasn’t read Sun Tzu?

Good question !

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: bk316

Who among us hasn’t read Sun Tzu?

Those who imagine themselves to be great geopoliticians.

[Gardamir]

Obviously those who read Ilyin.

[Askold65]

Quote: zyablik.olga

It’s a pity that those who make decisions in our country consider themselves great geopoliticians and haven’t read Sun Tzu

Or maybe you read it here:

.....if there is no danger, do not fight.

But, if a fight is inevitable, then strike first, Freddie....

[north 2]

Since there is no surname at the beginning of the article of the mentioned businessman, a London Russian, who from a treacherous position opposes the country and its army, then such articles can and should be considered inferior. By the way, there is also not a word in the article about the name of the opposition’s chosen presidential candidate. And when he boasts that he has already been “visited” by logical reasoning based on facts, then the fear of including surnames in the facts, without these surnames and, they say, facts and, they say, logic turns ordinary chatter...

[depressant]

Since there is no surname at the beginning of the article of the mentioned businessman, a London Russian, who from a treacherous position opposes the country and its army, then such articles can and should be considered inferior.

Well, let's name the "London Russian" and thereby increase the price of the article.
Chichvarkin, a petty swindler who once imported mobile phones into Russia under corruption schemes. Nowadays he sells expensive varieties of wine products in the London region, often suffers losses, tries to engage in the restaurant business and gives forty-minute interviews to well-known political relocants with the brand “Foreign Agent”.
I just have a question. Since when did Chichvarkin become a political guru whose opinion is worth listening to?
On YouTube - I just scroll through.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: depressant

Chichvarkin, petty swindler

I wouldn't say he's small. Euroset's half-bad slogans were broadcast throughout the country.

[Nikolay Malyugin]

People are people. And they always live what they were promised. And there were many promises of a quick victory. Now everything has fallen into place. But questions remain. For example, why are incentives only given in the form of awards? At least we haven’t heard about promotions in ranks. Especially the younger ones. The army needs an influx of fresh forces.. People of pathos are always right. And wars dictate their own laws. I wish our soldiers the main thing. Health.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

At least we haven’t heard about promotions in ranks. Especially the younger ones. The army needs an influx of fresh forces

They were planning sedition. Where should we put all the retired geniuses of military tactics and strategy? These are, at a minimum, his trusted people... Unfortunately, all this reminds me very much of the times of the reign of Nicholas 2. History teaches that it teaches no one anything.

[bk316]

At least we haven’t heard about promotions in ranks.

How will you hear if you categorically do not want to see and hear.
Maybe you'll hear it this way.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19626089
Please note, THROUGH THE TITLE. Last time something like this happened with Gagarin?

Will you hear or will you continue to rave?
All the privates I know in the Northern Military District have already become sergeants.
What do you need to have lists sent to you personally?

[Stinging Nettle]

Do you mean "at war"? Russia is not waging war (Peskov). There are still fines for calling the NWO a war. Moreover, some are fined, while others are not fined for the same thing.

[Stinging Nettle]

Staver, let’s say, won’t be fined, but by using the word “war” he encourages others to use the word “war”, as they get used to the fact that it is possible. And he can do this, but it may not be possible for them. Will Staver compensate them for their fines?
This is not nonsense. Any discussion of SVO begins with falsehood and with the fear of accidentally saying the wrong word. When a person believes that he is fighting for a just cause, is he afraid of anything? He will say: “I am fighting for a just cause.”
And if a person evades, turns around as if in a frying pan, carefully chooses his words, it seems that he himself is not sure that he is right. Although in fact, perhaps, he is just afraid of a fine, but it seems that he is stirring up something. Given this presentation, who will believe that we are right?
And it gives the impression of something very strange.

[Belisarius]

Quote: Stinging_Nettle

Do you mean "at war"? Russia is not waging war (Peskov). There are still fines for calling the NWO a war. Moreover, some are fined, while others are not fined for the same thing.

This is true, but the situation is even more absurd. You say that there is no war, but there is no “SVO” either.
The SVO is not regulated by any laws, no one started it, there are no laws or at least decrees about it.
That is, we have something that is not regulated by any laws, and that, accordingly, you can start arbitrarily and just as arbitrarily end with any arbitrarily changing goals and objectives. And for which no one bears any responsibility, because how can one bear responsibility for something that does not exist. Well, it’s just some kind of holiday!

[Stinging Nettle]

At the same time, for not maintaining something that no one started and that is not regulated by any laws, you can get a very specific prison sentence.

Well, it’s just some kind of holiday!

Not that word.

[Aviator_]

The SVO is not regulated by any laws, no one started it, there are no laws or at least decrees about it.

Well, “Wagner” also did not exist in any way in the legal field of the Russian Federation; officially, with a budget of 8 billion, it did not exist at all.

[AdAstra]

Well, here we see this, what’s his name, voluntarism. And in general - “Laws in the Russian Federation? No, we haven’t heard.”

[Askold65]

Quote: Belisarius

The SVO is not regulated by any laws, no one started it, there are no laws or at least decrees about it.

This topic is actively promoted by TsIPSO (and this nettle is one of them) and the Russian liberda: “Ukraine was attacked without any goals or laws.” Just like that.... A-ha.
Then I'll remind you. Russia, in response to Kiev’s violation of the Minsk agreements, recognized the LPR and DPR in February 2022 as two independent states and concluded a Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance with them.
In response, the Ukrainian Armed Forces did not come up with anything better than to subject Donetsk and other cities of Novorossiya to massive shelling and thus created a “casus bailey” (cause for war) for the Russian Federation. Russia was FORCED to intervene in the conflict on the side of friendly states in their confrontation against the Ukrainian Nazi state and their Western patrons.

Quote: Belisarius

And for which no one bears any responsibility, because how can one bear responsibility for something that does not exist. Well, it’s just some kind of holiday!

This is complete nonsense. This is probably the most important and difficult decision Putin has had to make in his life.
And what responsibility do those who provoked this conflict over the “hillock” bear? None at all, although they are EXACTLY the main customers and beneficiaries

[parusnik]

How the author’s rhetoric changes, I remember how the SVO began, the author had a huge supply of hats, he threw them until Kherson was surrendered... which, according to him, should not have been surrendered... But this is a lan, one thing follows from the article, shelling of Donetsk will continue and yes... there will not be a single show trial of Nazis captured.

[Aviator_]

There will not be a single show trial of Nazi prisoners.

I agree with this if they are not taken prisoner at all. And there will be no one to judge, and so - feed more of these at the expense of the budget.

[parusnik]

How the author’s rhetoric changes, I remember how the SVO began, the author had a huge supply of hats, he threw them until Kherson was surrendered... which, according to him, should not have been surrendered... But this is a lan, one thing follows from the article, shelling of Donetsk will continue and yes... there will not be a single show trial of Nazis captured.

[Eug]

Of course it won’t - there will be another agreement with “partners” who will once again deceive.... this is without irony - with sadness.

[Wonofaga]

Well, these are reasonable thoughts, without whining. I'm looking forward to the continuation. What is the SVO for?

[glock-17]

It has long been clear that a positional deadlock has arrived and no one really knows what to do next. The fighting even goes underground. In such a situation, you have to present at least some small advances as success.

[Stinging Nettle]

It has long been clear that a positional deadlock has arrived and no one really knows what to do next.

Therefore, it must be assumed, they diligently punish women with the wrong backpacks and girls with the wrong earrings (undoubtedly, the girl’s arrest will increase the desire to give birth to new soldiers for those who gave her five days for earrings).
After all, something needs to be done, but there seems to be nothing to do, because both the goals and the ways to achieve them become more and more incomprehensible. Jingoist patriots are looking for something to direct their energy towards.

[Victor Leningradets]

The fighting goes even underground

This is generally typical for positional warfare. The Postojnska-Jama karst cave system was used by Italian troops to reach the rear of the Austrians; in 1916, Russian troops carried out an underground offensive near Dvinsk; in the Somme offensive, 9 front explosions were carried out, simultaneously with an attack along the front, etc.

[samarin1969]

haste, in fact, is part of a fairly seriously thought-out operation.

Firstly, it is the exhaustion of Ukrainian Armed Forces units and the destruction of equipment and personnel.

Secondly, searching for “holes” in defensive fortifications. It is no secret that these structures were built a long time ago and represent quite serious fortifications.

Thirdly, the morale of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Let the small but constant victories of the Russians demoralize the personnel.

Well, fourthly, Russian units are building up their “fat”, training specialists, giving their soldiers leave, and so on.

Our “broadcasters” at all levels have a strange manner. Pass off problems “they have” as successes. This is not the approach of the Author personally. This is how “collective TV” works. Does such analytics actually find anyone’s ears?

[Eug]

Oopssss... I don’t want to blame the author for anything, but before the “rapid regrouping” in the Kharkov region, wasn’t there optimism?

[Vladimir80]

Quote: Grandfather is an amateur

I am far from the idea of ​​driving our men forward into the embrasures, sabers drawn.

and there is no need to repeat the methods of WWII - this is the 21st century, you can look at the example of other countries, but “we are not like that” (the example of Israel does not suit us)

and one more thing: the elites resemble a dog that is kicked by its owner, but it still looks at him faithfully, in the hope that he will forgive her and throw away the gnawed bone...

[Stinging Nettle]

and one more thing: the elites resemble a dog that is kicked by its owner, but it still looks at him faithfully, in the hope that he will forgive her and throw away the gnawed bone...

Who is it that is kicking the elite? Have you confused the elite with Zhuravel, or what? The elite was still chic. They can give a subpoena to some rapper, but let them try to give a subpoena to the children of Mishustin, Medvedev, Peskov, and even the children of figures at a much lower level.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Stinging_Nettle

an agenda for the children of Mishustin, Medvedev, Peskov and even the children of figures at a much lower level.

To be fair, Peskov’s son is a volunteer in the Northern Military District.

[Stinging Nettle]

To be fair, Peskov’s son is a volunteer in the Northern Military District.

Peskov’s son directly said that he would not go to the military registration and enlistment office because he was Mr. Peskov. Peskov, his father, publicly approved his position. The President remained silent, and Peskov remained at his post.
A few months later, Peskov’s son suddenly remembered that he served at Wagner under someone else’s name, and Prigozhin suddenly remembered this too. No proofs were shown. After the Wagner tanks advanced to Moscow, Peskov’s son remembered that after all, he had not served in Wagner.

[qQQQ]

Well, it seems like you don’t show evidence to the contrary either. There are words from Prigozhin, where he confirms the service of Peskov’s son, he has a medal for Courage. What do you have that proves the opposite? I don’t like our elite, I don’t like Peskov himself, etc., but still there are moments for which they can be respected.

[Stinging Nettle]

I repeat. It’s not me who has this, but everyone else.
Peskov’s son directly said that he would not go to the military registration and enlistment office because he was Mr. Peskov. Peskov, his father, publicly approved his position. The President remained silent, and Peskov remained at his post.

[qQQQ]

All of Wagner did not go to the military registration and enlistment office, does this mean that they are all Peskovs? The question is rhetorical. He is a volunteer and it is up to everyone to choose which structure to fight through. It's not a crime. He went, didn’t leave, didn’t hide, etc.

[Mishka78]

Quote: qqqq

Well, it seems like you don’t show evidence to the contrary either.

Well, I don’t know how proof this is, but here it is.

[qQQQ]

So-so arguments. The filming is quite understandable because no one in the database area will film, especially the son of an important official - that’s how security is. Well, anyone can drive a car by proxy. Even in the example given, they write very streamlinedly only about the car, but for some reason they do not show pictures of the driver. When I receive fines, I can always clearly see the silhouette of who is sitting behind the wheel, by which I can clearly identify the driver.

[Nikodim]

Another duty run of a full-time political officer.
And we’re going there, but it’s not time yet

[Vladimir M]

From the article - "... those who do not want or cannot understand the general concept of the operation. These are either narrow-minded and illiterate people, or those who are always against." UV. author, explain to me, who is narrow-minded and illiterate, how can one compare the fact that on February 24, 22 demilitarization and denazification was officially announced with what they tried to do already in March 22 in Istanbul?

[S.Z.]

The offensive is proceeding at the pace that is possible and with the losses that are acceptable. No one has ever set goals like “taking Nikolai and Odessa” and is unlikely to set them. These are fantasies based on rumors and desires.

The goals are clearly stated, including territorial ones. They consist of the liberation of four new regions. Are there “secret” goals - I think not. Putin usually does what he says. Although, as a politician, he is sometimes forced to do something other than what he promised, but this relates more to domestic politics.

As long as we have an advantage due to the failure of the Ukrainian Armed Forces offensive and our recruitment (mobilization and contract soldiers), we will continue to advance. When the forces become equal - as a result of mobilization in Ukraine and the supply of Western equipment to them, we will stop. When their strength exceeds ours. they will begin to attack and we will carry out our mobilization.

[Vladimir80]

The offensive proceeds at the pace that is possible and with the losses that are acceptable

In protracted conflicts, the number of casualties is always higher than in short-term ones!

Putin usually does what he says.

The election campaign has been counted! Although the thesis is false.

As long as we have an advantage

The advantage is only in the news of the central channels....

[S.Z.]

In protracted conflicts, the number of casualties is always higher than in short-term ones!

It depends how long the conflict lasts. In addition, the offensive is carried out in small groups, which does not bring significant losses in a short period of time, and it is precisely such losses that are sensitive.

Putin usually does what he says.

The election campaign has been counted! Although the thesis is false.

You just didn't read it.

Quote: Vladimir80

As long as we have an advantage

The advantage is only in the news of the central channels....

Not only. The numerical ratio is such that ours are on the offensive, but before that they were on the defensive and even retreating. The pace of the offensive corresponds to the balance of forces.

[Vladimir80]

which does not bring significant losses in a short period of time

and again blind faith in the central TV channels

The numerical ratio is such that ours are attacking

depending on what is considered an offensive,... the Ukrainians also carried out an offensive in the summer.... and next summer they are going again...

[S.Z.]

Quote: Vladimir80

which does not bring significant losses in a short period of time

and again blind faith in the central TV channels

The numerical ratio is such that ours are attacking

depending on what is considered an offensive,... the Ukrainians also carried out an offensive in the summer.... and next summer they are going again...

I don't watch TV. Sensitive losses are called tangible; not felt means not perceptible. These are not numbers, but the power of impact. Some people run away at 1%, while others stand until the last minute. We continue to advance, which means the losses are not noticeable.

Yes, the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ offensive failed, but ours is not over yet. Most likely, they will start next year, after their mobilization. But for now we have the advantage.

[ZloyCat]

"The numerical ratio is such that ours are on the offensive,"
where are they attacking? Can you name at least one goal, not from the year before last, but a recent one?

[S.Z.]

Quote: ZloyKot

"The numerical ratio is such that ours are on the offensive,"
where are they attacking? Can you name at least one goal, not from the year before last, but a recent one?

Of course, I can’t, since the goals are not announced.

IMHO, I think that Avdeevka must be taken, and recently, according to Podolyaki, ours attacked there, but unsuccessfully, but they did not stop trying. It is also necessary, purely tactically, near Kherson to reset the Ukrainian Armed Forces on their shores, otherwise this bridgehead of theirs in Krynki in the future, if the Ukrainian Armed Forces become stronger, will bring us problems. Also, in those places where the Armed Forces of Ukraine are weak, we occupy their positions, improving the situation.

One of the relatively recent successes is the capture of Marinka.

In general, it is necessary to clear the territories of our new regions, I think this is the maximum task. True, I don’t think this is possible, except for the LPR, given the current balance of forces. Well, perhaps the defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will crumble, but it doesn’t look like that. Can't see it from my sofa :)

[TORERO_1]

The author (or his son) is sent to the front and the tone of the article will change. It's easy to manipulate other people's lives.

[Soldatov V.]

The Russian Army always has examples of how they fought in the past and won. You can compare Koenigsberg and Avdeevka, with the same Mariupol. It’s good that we are moving in almost all directions, but there are some that especially feel like pain in the heart, such as Donetsk and a number of others. It seems to me that the fighters at the front are also waiting for big breakthroughs, a deep offensive.

[Stinging Nettle]

It seems to me that the fighters at the front are also waiting for big breakthroughs, a deep offensive.

Or maybe ask them themselves what they are waiting for?

[Soldatov V.]

Take it and ask, who is stopping you? Through relatives and friends who have someone fighting in the Northern Military District.
And tell us on the website what they are waiting for. From the private and further to the General Staff. It will be very interesting for commentators on the site, both liberals and communists and those who have left the border.

[Stinging Nettle]

Not through relatives and friends, but ask them directly, just organize it in such a way that there are no repressive measures.

[Soldatov V.]

That's all you understand. At the front, mail and messages are always being monitored. All the armies of the world. By the way, Solzhenitsyn was burned at the front.

[Stinging Nettle]

During Solzhenitsyn’s time, every soldier could freely write either to the prosecutor’s office or to Stalin personally, and they did not respond with formal replies, but responded very quickly, and also each commander had a special officer who noted all violations.
Well, there was no Internet, littered with videos from the front.

[Soldatov V.]

Look for why Solzhenitsyn was arrested at the front, and who suffered from him.
In my youth, I worked with truth-seekers who wrote to Stalin and served ten years in prison. Some sat until their 80s.

[Stinging Nettle]

Look for why Solzhenitsyn was arrested at the front, and who suffered from him.
In my youth, I worked with truth-seekers who wrote to Stalin and served ten years in prison. Some sat until their 80s.

Sadly. Moreover, this is a reason to be attentive to the fighters.

[Sergei Fonov]

Stalin died in 1953 plus 10 years, so it turned out to be 1963, but not the 80s.

[Soldatov V.]

People were given a prison sentence during Stalin’s life, after his death, if it was a political crime, they were rehabilitated, if it was a criminal offense, then they served the entire term, plus in the camp they charged them for anything, for example, for a fight with murder, and they served until Gorbachev.

[Sergei Fonov]

So who are you talking about, truth-seekers, or criminals? You can get 3 years and get out in 15, but this does not mean that Stalin is to blame for everything. I came across statistics on acquittals under Stalin; in those days the court was more humane than it is now.

[Soldatov V.]

It was not Stalin who planted it, but the courts and the prosecutor’s office, which issued coal to the mountain. Just like all over the world. Otherwise, why have them? And no one wants to get involved in political affairs. At the slightest clue, the case was usually transferred to criminal law. You simply don’t understand in life what a truth-seeker, a politician, a criminal, and also a vagina-sufferer are. (To put it mildly, this applies to Beria, by the way).

[Sergei Fonov]

Another Zen history expert? Judging by the assessment of LP Beria. Where would we be without your competent knowledge of history. "The problem of humanity is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge" With Hawking.

[Soldatov V.]

How old are you? Why talk like that? I lived and worked with those people.
And with those sitting and guarding them. This is not a story, but my life.

[Sergei Fonov]

I will say that I was born during Stalin’s lifetime. But I don’t speculate; in my assessments I use historical and memoir literature. Currently, historians have access to archives; many documents have been declassified. Your life is also part of the history of a certain region, as is the life of other people, but a person’s assessment is subjective, it depends on his preferences. As Stalin subtly noted about memories, “they lie like eyewitnesses.”

[Deon59]

You must be from the moon. Here, if the guarantor is asked directly, there will be so many reservations that they will forget about the question

[Valery Mamai]

It was a pity, they were waiting for the battle,
Grumbling old people:
“What are we? to winter apartments?
Do not they dare, commanders
Strangers tear their uniforms
About Russian bayonets? "

[AdAstra]

I didn’t doubt the last name and first name of the author under this analytical (let it be without quotes) article.

[Maks1995]

Another explanation. 100-500i.
Most likely true for the most part. However, this applies to both WW1 and WW2. Personnel units are being ground up, conscripts are gaining experience, commoners are paying with their lives for territory and time.
But this works in all directions, the player is not 1n.
And “women don’t give birth to new ones anymore” (unverbatim), we’ll have to import dark-skinned and narrow-eyed ones

[kor1vet1974]

Again we must defeat everyone quickly.

Why drive horses? The North Military District is in progress and negotiations are underway, somewhere behind the scenes, they are working out the main provisions, a village that has been wiped into dust is of no use to anyone... But a big city that has not been wiped into dust is needed. Like Kherson, for example. From the beginning of the Armed Forces of Ukraine it was handed over completely untouched, then the Russian army returned in the same way... And so that no one would guess, they talk about heroic battles for the villages, both sides, like each other, grind each other... And the negotiations go on quietly...

[Wildcat]

Many years ago, when I was first asked to analyze a situation, I read the comments and tried to explain my findings. He blamed himself for not being able to convey, not being able to show a logical chain of reasoning.

Over these many years, nothing has changed, everything is still unclear... ...and who are these people, what are they asking for?

Every day we read about some successes of our units. Moreover, messages come from completely different directions. Suddenly some units occupied the Ukrainian Armed Forces' support forces in the southern direction. Then to the north. Then somewhere else. Success and clearing of the territory. And the victorious reports of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about stopping the Russians...
Doesn't it give you any thoughts?

Calls. But only Lostarmor provides monthly data on changes in LBS. It is better not to count them as a percentage of the territory of Ukraine.

I would not be at all surprised if some lieutenant or captain, supposedly unexpectedly for everyone, organizes such an attack, after which not only the unit, but also the formation will enter the operational space and destroy the Armed Forces of Ukraine without encountering any special problems. Moreover, this will not be a breakthrough of the next line of defense, but rather an access to operational space.
And then this lieutenant or captain will stand “front and center” in front of the Commander-in-Chief and report why, contrary to the plans of the two General Staffs, he collapsed the front with his attack and forced a bunch of generals and colonels to urgently come up with new plans. Right before awarding him the Hero of Russia star, report...

https://youtu.be/d1vRLfuF-wM

PS. I usually don't comment on articles by this author because they are hard to read.
And I don’t like one-sentence paragraphs.

I don't like it at all.

But if this Analytics is inferior to Mitrofanov (whom I also accidentally read today) in the flight of thoughts, it is only a little. So it's boiling over, sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Yes, and preparations for Friday evening have been disrupted, I’m no longer in the mood....

[ivan2022]

Outside of connection with politics, the continuation of which is any war and military defense, there is nothing to discuss here at all. And talk about politics, look for adventures.

[Deon59]

The article clearly states - what are you blathering about? Everything is fine in the Laotian army, and anyone who thinks differently is an enemy.

[Alexander_First]

The army command, in peacetime and especially during combat operations, must be guided only by rational logic. And leave the emotions for Mr. V.R. Solovyov and K.

[Knell wardenheart]

This is the logic of our opposition. Well, okay, what will you take from the traitors?

Wow, the author found our opposition in 2024. What a twist !
Who are these insidious and immoral people? Communists who are on their last legs? Depersonalized LDPR?
Nonfactor Nadezhdin? Mythical “hidden liberals”, so hidden that they have not shown themselves since 2011?
Maybe the author is talking about the “non-systemic opposition”, which is either in deep emigration (for several years now) or partially imprisoned?
No, really, it’s funny to read about some insidious and sophisticated intrigues on the part of those who are STUPIDLY NOT.
This is somewhat reminiscent of medieval witch-hunting, when there is the Holy Inquisition on parade, but each time you have to look for witches and heretics long and hard, and in the end, pass off different idiots as them, each time more pitiful and funnier.

And as for “quietly and slowly” - now the Ukrainian Armed Forces are building a large-scale defensive line “like the Surovikin line.” Considering how much hemorrhoids we had with the old fortified areas and festungs - do you think it will become easier for us when they build this line? I don't think so.
They also thought that all these concrete pyramids were nonsense and that they would later “dismantle” them when necessary.
This is no longer a rush - two years have almost passed. This is called "common sense". In any case, we will have to carry out large-scale operations - but we will carry them out either in the foreseeable future or in the distant future, enjoying all the delights of numerous Marinki, Avdeevka, Bakhmut, many kilometers of minefields, expanded home-made air defense like FrankenSAM, expanding the range of UAVs and long-range missiles from the enemy, who will sit behind all this defense.

[Olive1]

Lots of boos to justify the incompetence and meanness of the leadership

[Barabashka]

Anyone who doesn’t understand us is illiterate... and doesn’t understand anything at all

[Tank destroyerSU-100]

For me, the current course of hostilities evokes associations with the year-long butting of the Red Army against the Rzhev-Vyazemsky ledge of German troops, and then with the almost six-month (from December 1943 to the end of March 1944) butting of the Western Front against the German defenses at Vitebsk and Orsha with a month's advance 1-1,5 km.
The Germans were forced to withdraw from the Rzhev-Vyazemsky salient in order to free up troops and close the gaps on the southern flank of their Eastern Front after Stalingrad. But near Vitebsk and Orsha, the German defenses were broken already in June 1944, when they prepared for the offensive. And the troops were already commanded by other people, not Sokolovsky.
But now Stalingrad is not visible, and there is no smell of Operation Bagration.
IMHO, we still have many, many more “battles for the forester’s hut” ahead of us.

[Ghost1]

And so much is already clear; you don’t have to read such articles anymore. No matter how much you want to describe it in view of the various laws adopted, you can get caught.

[Igor1915]

It is clear to those who are adequate that things did not go according to plan, after which the Kremlin apparently scratched its turnip for a long time and decided to starve it out. Since the spring of 22nd, I haven’t really seen how the state leadership is going to take on something larger than the PGT. Calculations for a change of power somewhere, fatigue from the war and some kind of agreement. In my opinion, GDP does not plan to do anything significant other than signing an agreement on the current front line (I would like to do it in 20.0 mode from the current one).

[Conjurer]

We need to add politics to the analysis.
1 When conducting a special operation (not a war!), you do not fall under the UN Charter on aggression, but the downside is that you cannot use all your military force and must act selectively, only for military purposes.
2 Your political opponents will try to cause you the biggest problems in the world, as much as you expose yourself, and they will rely on international organizations to use the “international community” against you - this is how Iran was isolated at one time.
3 While the special operation is underway, there are no legal reasons to use the regular forces of our political opponents on the side, and the human resources of the country are limited, therefore, your victory is a matter of time, and you need to minimize your losses as much as possible, while not forgetting to strengthen your armed forces, i.e. .but no one guarantees you that your “partners” will not provoke a war and you will have to fight with all available resources.

[Vladimir80]

you are not covered by the UN Charter on aggression

strict adherence to the “UN Charter” and other international “rules” (WHO, IMF, ...) is a sign of lack of independence (puppet status) of the state...

[Ghost1]

And in the West I also write that this is ours, or do you think that if we called it that, then the West should adhere to this term?

[Conjurer]

Everything is simple here. It doesn’t matter what they write there, but since they have still not been able to put the UN Charter into effect, it means the world community does not recognize what is happening as a war.

[ZloyCat]

“I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some lieutenant or captain, supposedly unexpectedly for everyone, organizes such an attack, after which not only the unit, but also the formation will enter the operational space and destroy the Armed Forces of Ukraine without encountering anyone.”
Lord, how long can it be? here who said that the staver was from the former military? almost special forces? exactly? not a cook in kindergarten? who publishes his articles, who moderates them? or himself?

[Ash]

Quote: north 2

Since there is no surname at the beginning of the article of the mentioned businessman, a London Russian,

Well, it’s not difficult to find out the last name, but something else worries me: does the author seriously consider a swindler who made a fortune smuggling mobile phones to Russia, and who was then quietly allowed to leave, and not sent to prison, as an oppositionist? How old is Alexander, to begin with, and is it too early for him to become an analyst?

[Frettaskyrandi]

and isn’t it too early for him to get into analytics?

It's probably too late already.

[RMT]

Staver defeated everyone. For the umpteenth time already. The old “I think so” argument

[spektr9]

But let us return to the question of a “decisive” offensive. Let me immediately voice my point of view. The offensive is already underway. And it's going quite well

From the creator of Alexander Staver the following masterpieces:

Analyzing all the known facts and opinions of military, economic and political experts, I came to the conclusion that we still have the tradition of ending wars in the spring. And we will finish this war traditionally. But not in May, but earlier. It is likely that even the anniversary of the NWO will not have to be celebrated.

In general, it is already clear that General Surovikin is not going to surrender Kherson. There will be a very serious and bloody battle. It is quite possible that the last battle, a sort of modern Battle of Kursk. After which the Armed Forces of Ukraine may lose their "Armored Armies" (Western support) and will retreat.

Am I the only one who wants to prescribe juicy bream to this unfortunate “expert”?

[Butunak]

You are not alone, and there are a cloud of such grief-stricken people. I have a brother there, a friend, acquaintances who have been fighting for a long time and from the ground they tell completely different pictures.
To take Odessa you have to take it like Marik, then rebuild it anew, that’s the only way, in a peaceful war there were collateral losses, they weren’t evacuated, their problems

[hellman]

Allegedly, it is not we (not the country) who want to provide a decent life for the families of fighters while they break the back of another fascist bastard, supposedly this is a common purchase for mercenaries.

Well, what can I say, we don’t decide where taxes go. And about the purchase of mercenaries, this is a slightly extreme truth, and quite unpleasant, because how else can you establish a flow of volunteers?

At the same time, the questioner doesn’t even want to find out whether he knows how many platoons, companies or battalions the enemy lost while defending this village. It doesn't matter to him.

Well, of course, it really doesn’t matter to me - what’s important to me is how many platoons, companies or battalions WE lost while taking this village

And it is going quite successfully. This is a fact that is clear to any person who has the slightest understanding of the basics of military affairs

Well, I understand a little, but somehow I don’t really see that it would be quite successful.

In general, I didn’t read further, the author made... a poem of excuses. just for what? only God knows.

[bug120560]

“No therapy if the problem can be solved with surgery... But this “surgery” will be very expensive. I’m not talking about money, about people... And not only ours...”
Author, who proved that today’s method “little by little, slowly, with limited forces” leads to saving lives?
Here, for a general understanding, is a quote from the statement of the Soviet government to the Japanese government: “...Taking into account Japan’s refusal to capitulate, the allies turned to the Soviet Government with a proposal to join the war against Japanese aggression and thereby shorten the end of the war, reduce the number of casualties and promote a speedy recovery universal peace... True to its allied duty, the Soviet Government accepted the proposal of the allies and joined the Statement of the Allied Powers of July 26 of this year.
The Soviet Government believes that such a policy is the only means capable of hastening the onset of peace, freeing peoples from further sacrifices and suffering, and enabling the Japanese people to get rid of the dangers and destruction that Germany experienced after its refusal to unconditionally surrender.
In view of the above, the Soviet Government declares that from tomorrow, that is, from August 9, the Soviet Union will consider itself in a state of war with Japan.
August 8, 1945 "
And in one go, look through the history of how Victory over Japan was achieved.

[Alexey Lantukh]

Why do we benefit from such tactics today?

Really why? I didn't understand it from the article. Occupying strongholds? It’s very good if the Ukrainian Armed Forces don’t knock ours out of these points the next day, but our military officers are often silent about this. How long has the battle around Avdeevka been going on? It took a long time and they took everything out of the blue. How many people and equipment were lost? These are the problems. Apparently, ours are not yet capable of fully attacking. And there are reasons. Therefore, active defense with sometimes useless assaults. What if they are able to attack? Then why don’t they attack, at least to the extent of divisional operations?

[odisey3000]

Yes, it’s bad when the same authors write about everything, on all topics from war to peace, only one thing is missing in the articles, realism and objectivity. But the reality is like this. The war with Ukraine has been going on for the second year now, we still haven’t been able to Well, that is, the country’s leadership solved the problems of denazification and demilitarization in Ukraine, switched to mobile defense tactics due to a lack of personnel, sadly we are suffering combat and non-combat losses. The Western world is mostly aggressive towards us, assistance will be provided to Ukraine everywhere. With the advent of long-range systems, both missile and artillery, Ukrainians will have a real threat of striking Russia’s critical infrastructure. such as nuclear plants, fuel storage facilities, arsenals, thermal stations, airfields and so on. It is very difficult to cover all this with the country’s current air defense system. Plus, our human resources are not unlimited. Try now to send conscripts to fight, tomorrow you will see angry marches in our cities mothers. Of course, there are advantages, as the defense industry is working at full capacity, the ruble has not made a rapid downward dive, the government led by Mishustin, God bless him, is working. They are finally talking seriously about import substitution. But the main thing is victory in the war. And with this, Shoigu and Gerasimov are still having a hard time. But there is hope and confidence that we will win. And without victory, then why was all this started?

[Alexey Lantukh]

there will be a real threat of attacks on Russia's critical infrastructure. like nuclear power plants,

That's pretty much it. However, if there are serious (not pin) strikes on nuclear facilities, this will lead to the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Both Kyiv and the West are really afraid of this.

[BAI]

When you don’t have a numerical advantage, the “creeping” attack tactics are the only way out. At first sight. For back in 1941, the Germans demonstrated that it was possible to organize the Minsk, Uman and Vyazemsky cauldrons, where there were more surrounded than those surrounded.

[BAI]

The enemy lost a company or battalions while defending this village. It doesn't matter to him.

But really, it doesn't matter. These companies and battalions completed their task - they detained the attackers. At this rate, how many centuries will it take to move the border 70 km from Donetsk and Belgorod? This is for artillery. And Hymers hit 120 km. And with long-range missiles - by 500.
And Russia will lose the war of attrition. The West is stronger - economically, demographically and in military potential.

[AC130 Gunship]

Well, if for a simple annual TV show “Ask Putin a Question” Rostec repainted a 20-year-old plane and passed it off as new, I can imagine how the nigga will stand there a week or two before re-election

[runway-1]

Why do we benefit from such tactics today?

Because we don't have another?

[Vlad Gor]

There are a lot of words in the article, little objectivity, no analysis or suggestions. Any civil or military manager knows that you need to start with a goal, in the process the goal is edited, and then tasks, plan, deadlines, performers, support, etc. In the SVO, no one has seen the Decrees or Laws of the Russian Federation, where everything is written about the SVO. What law contains the definition of SVO and what is it? Who knows the goal, strategy, tactics, stages, deadlines and how the SVO should end? Everything that TV says can not be discussed; it is not a written Decree of the President or a law of the Duma. The author puts everyone at the forefront of winning. Whom to defeat and please provide the document where it is written. Some write war, others SVO, even the authorities have not decided what to say. Maybe this is WHO, and all of Ukraine is Russian territory?

[gribanov.c]

There is a concept of “maneuver warfare” (check out the definition of this concept). Either prove that it has become impossible in principle and is a thing of the past forever, or... we are now consciously abandoning this strategy. The statement that maneuver warfare as a method of conducting combat operations always entails large losses and requires great superiority is incorrect (there are examples of the opposite).

[Nastia makarova]

15? why not 40?............

[Zlatous]

There will be enough money for another two years of war, the madness of the bunker grandfather forever. Here is the answer. At this rate, we will never even take right-bank Ukraine. Now the only option is peace with territory that has already been captured. Then the removal of the usurper from power and preparation for the second war.

[RODO71]

Two years that should have lasted a few days? And still not much. Hundreds of thousands killed or maimed. Every day I read how another village was liberated. How many good guys have fallen there? Were there more of them than the population of this village? According to reports, we should already be in Berlin. But in reality we are in a worse position than we were a year ago. I fall into pessimism and doubt. I probably won’t read articles of this type anymore.

[moscowp]

The article is a good example of demagoguery, but one might think from the title that there would be logic.

[Moneron]

Judging by the mood on the forum, the country's population is already tired of the war. what's going on in the trenches then? the primary euphoria was killed by the mediocre conduct of hostilities.....and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Russia is a country of expectations.....a bright future, developed socialism, communism by 1980, each family a separate comfortable apartment by 2000, socialism with a human face of Yeltsin enrichment in any way....and now victories through denazification and demilitarization. I can’t believe it anymore....from the word “absolutely”.

[Tank destroyerSU-100]

Quote from: odisey3000

Yes, it’s bad when the same authors write about everything, on all topics from war to peace, only one thing is missing in the articles, realism and objectivity. But the reality is like this. The war with Ukraine has been going on for the second year now, we still haven’t been able to Well, that is, the country’s leadership solved the problems of denazification and demilitarization in Ukraine, switched to mobile defense tactics due to a lack of personnel, sadly we are suffering combat and non-combat losses. The Western world is mostly aggressive towards us, assistance will be provided to Ukraine everywhere. With the advent of long-range systems, both missile and artillery, Ukrainians will have a real threat of striking Russia’s critical infrastructure. such as nuclear plants, fuel storage facilities, arsenals, thermal stations, airfields and so on. It is very difficult to cover all this with the country’s current air defense system. Plus, our human resources are not unlimited. Try now to send conscripts to fight, tomorrow you will see angry marches in our cities mothers. Of course, there are advantages, as the defense industry is working at full capacity, the ruble has not made a rapid downward dive, the government led by Mishustin, God bless him, is working. They are finally talking seriously about import substitution. But the main thing is victory in the war. And with this, Shoigu and Gerasimov are still having a hard time. But there is hope and confidence that we will win. And without victory, then why was all this started?

IMHO, Shoigu and Gerasimov are being kept as a last resort, when a complete deadlock comes and everything generally goes wrong, so that they can be thrown off the Kremlin porch onto the “streltsy berdysh”, to let off steam.

[Tank destroyerSU-100]

Quote: Igor1915

It is clear to those who are adequate that things did not go according to plan, after which the Kremlin apparently scratched its turnip for a long time and decided to starve it out. Since the spring of 22nd, I haven’t really seen how the state leadership is going to take on something larger than the PGT. Calculations for a change of power somewhere, fatigue from the war and some kind of agreement. In my opinion, GDP does not plan to do anything significant other than signing an agreement on the current front line (I would like to do it in 20.0 mode from the current one).

I expect with bitterness that after the “triumphant” counting of votes by Madame Pamfilova’s department, we will be asked to “treat with understanding” the urgent agreement on the SVO. And there will be a lot of things waiting for us... But since the reign will already be extended for six years, there will be a firm belief that during these six years the severity of the indignation from the “obscene world” will subside.
In any case, it is absolutely clear that the “small victorious war” trick has failed, and entry into Kyiv on a white horse is not expected. Well, we are raking the “micro-Tsushima” on the Black Sea. "Moscow", several large landing ships. The total number of ships hit was 14, of which 7 were killed.
In general, we are vomiting blood for thinking that we would fight exclusively with the notorious “international terrorism”, and with the notorious “respected partners” we would exclusively kiss the gums.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100

In general, we are vomiting blood for thinking that we would fight exclusively with the notorious “international terrorism”

You came up with this idiotic “reason for everything” yourself. In History, punishment of an entire people “for nothing” does not happen! The children and grandchildren of the “eccentrics” who 30 years ago watched on TV from their sofas as the last defenders of Soviet power, the defenders of the White House, died in October 1993, are paying with blood at the front. THIS IS CALLED "CALCULATION ACCORDING TO MERIT"! Moreover, I guess that there has not been a full calculation yet... that is ahead.

[AmOgus]

I haven’t seen such ardent rimming of the bosses at TopVar for a long time. The author just needs to give out bonuses for his impudence.

[MaKeNa]

Everything that is happening now with the SVO, in my opinion, is explained by 3 factors:
1. There is no clear PURPOSE for this battle!!! Everyone forgot about demilitarization with denazification and the liberation of Donbass. As the guarantor says, the goals of the SVO will be achieved! Where are the goals?......!!!!!
2.And what is our VICTORY? Kyiv? Odessa? Lvov? Or maybe Marinka is all?! Fog! Totally crap.
3.VICTORY, does our elite need it? Need not!!!!!
So we get what we have now. No goal, no winning strategy. Therefore, naturally at the front everything comes down to tactical actions. The main active unit was the platoon! He defends his stronghold and storms the enemy’s. But the corps and the army are for a breakthrough, but who needs this breakthrough?! No one at the top!!! So we pick up the earth.
And therefore we will fight until......

[barkonaut]

I remember that a brigade in the US Army, its NATO allies and the Armed Forces of Ukraine is not a formation. This is part.

[RMT]

What are "Russian anarchists"? The author's imagination is overflowing!