Technology of creeping bourgeois counter-revolution 1985–1993. and how to counteract it

Introduction

Events that took place in our country in 1985–1993. radically changed our lives, changed the balance of power in the world. In our country, the internal situation in which seemed absolutely stable, instead of the CPSU, “builders of capitalism” who came from nowhere appeared in power.

The question arises, how could this happen in the most powerful country in the world? In a country where one of the most successful intelligence and counterintelligence services, the KGB, operated, and the ruling party, the CPSU, consisted of about 20 million people out of 300 million inhabitants? This question never ceases to bother many people.

In this work, an analysis of the events that occurred was made based on the following premises:

1. “A person is judged not by what he says or thinks about himself, but by his deeds. Philosophers should be judged not by the signs they hang on themselves (...), but by how they actually solve basic theoretical questions, with whom they go hand in hand, what they teach and what they taught their students and followers" (V.I. Lenin, Complete Works. T. 18. M.: Publishing House of Political Literature, 1968. 526 pp., p. 228).

These words were spoken by V.I. Lenin; in this work, these Leninist words are applied not to philosophers, but to Soviet leaders of the late 1980s. To assess the importance of this position, during the analysis I will now cite excerpts of text from two books of that time containing quotes from M. S. Gorbachev. First (History Ukrainian SSR. Volume 10. Ukrainian SSR in conditions of developed socialism, 60s - early 80s. Ed. Likholat A.V., Vitruk L.D., Ishchenko N.G. et al. Kyiv: Publishing house. Naukova Dumka, 1985. 776 p.):

“The General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee M. S. Gorbachev at the extraordinary March (1985) Plenum of the CPSU Central Committee emphasized: “Increasing the labor and social activity of Soviet people, strengthening discipline, cultivating patriotism and internationalism are important tasks of all ideological activities.”
A new manifestation of the party’s concern for the further socio-economic and political development of the country at the stage of improving developed socialism were the decisions of the Plenums of the CPSU Central Committee, adopted in 1984 and 1985, on further improvement of the work of the Councils of People’s Deputies, on the main directions of reform of secondary and vocational schools, on Long-term program for land reclamation, accelerating scientific and technological progress, etc.”

Second quote (Markov V.S. XIX Party Conference: a look into the future. M.: Znanie, 1988. 64 p.):

“Perestroika is a steady increase in the role of intensive factors in the development of the Soviet economy; restoration and development in the management of the national economy of the Leninist principles of democratic centralism, the widespread introduction of economic management methods, the abandonment of command and administration, ensuring the transition of all parts of the economy to the principles of full self-financing and new forms of organization of labor and production, full encouragement of innovation and socialist entrepreneurship.”

If from the first of these quotes, according to them, it is generally impossible to understand that a bourgeois counter-revolution has begun in the country, that some of the country’s leaders are renegade communists, then from the second only now, knowing the result of perestroika, one can pay attention to the “renunciation of command and administration" and "ensuring the transition of all parts of the economy to the principles of full self-financing." It sounded different then, in any case, the above passage was difficult to connect with the bourgeois counter-revolution.

For this reason, nothing they said then matters. All that matters is what they did.

2. The Soviet state lasted for about 70 years, from 1917 until the end of the 1980s. During this time, it withstood the most difficult tests (The Soviet economy during the Great Patriotic War of 1941–1945, edited by Gladkov I. A. M.: Publishing House "Science", 1970. 504 pp.), achieved enormous success in industry, agriculture, medicine (Ioffe Ya. A. We and the planet: Figures and facts. M.: Politizdat, 1988. 256 p.), science (Science of the countries of socialism. The seventies. Editor-in-chief Etingof E. B. M. : Publishing house "Knowledge", 1980. 400 pp.), etc., as well as in increasing the living standards of the Soviet people (Kozlov A.E. Social security in the USSR. M.: Publishing house "Nauka", 1981. 186 pp.; Union of Equals. Directory. Editor-in-chief Polyakova Ya. A. M.: Politizdat, 1972. 295 pp.; Koryagina T. I. Public consumption funds. M.: Publishing house "Znanie", 1988. 64 pp. .).

Therefore, I believe that the Marxist-Leninist theory that was used to create this state is certainly correct. Further analysis is based on the validity of the provisions of Marxism-Leninism and its last part - scientific communism.

3. We will assume that the correct theory could be incorrectly applied. The application of theory in a complex system is a combined issue associated with the search for the right solutions (for example, Stalin I.V. Economic problems of socialism in the USSR. M.: Gospolitizdat, 1952. 96 pp.; Glushkov V.M. Macroeconomic models and principles of construction OGAS. M.: Publishing house "Statistics", 1975. 160 pp.; Strumilin S. G. Selected works. Memoirs and journalism. M.: Publishing house "Nauka", 1968. 480 pp.; Methods and models of ASPR. Results and prospects. Ed. Bezrukov V. B., Kravchenko T. K. M.: Publishing House Economics, 1989. 240 pp.) and with the risk of making mistakes.

During the construction of socialism in our country, mistakes were certainly made. Perhaps some of them were committed intentionally. Our country was the first to take the path of building socialism, we did not have a standard for comparison, so mistakes along this path, unfortunately, are inevitable (for example, Stalin I.V. Works. T. 12. M.: State Publishing House political. Literature, 1955. 398 pp.; Stalin I. V. Works. T. 14. M.: Information and Publishing Center "Soyuz", 2007. 802 pp.).

As part of this work, one of the first tasks was to analyze the sequence of actions of its leaders - M. S. Gorbachev and B. N. Yeltsin. The main problem in order to understand what they were doing was to connect their actions, as paradoxical as it sounds , with Marxist-Leninist theory. And more precisely, with the theory of the transformation period during the transition from capitalism to socialism (Lenin V.I. Complete Works. T. 33. M.: Publishing House of Political Literature, 1969. 434 pp., pp. 1–120; Fedoseev P. N., Afanasyev V.G., Brutents K.N., etc. Scientific communism. M.: Politizdat, 1982. 431 pp.; Economic discussions of the 20s. Editor-in-chief L. I. Abalkin. M. : Economics, 1989. 142 p.).

After establishing such a connection, all the actions of M. S. Gorbachev and B. N. Yeltsin fit perfectly into the logic of dismantling the socialist system and returning the country back to the capitalist past.

1. The internal situation in the USSR in 1985

Let's look at the USSR in 1985, the time when M. S. Gorbachev was elected General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee. The USSR is one of the two leading world powers. The USSR's share in world industrial production in 1986 was 20% or more than 80% of the USA. In terms of agricultural production (except for grain 66% and meat 64% of the USA), the USSR was several times ahead of the USA. In terms of the number of doctors and hospital beds, the USSR was several times ahead of the United States, not to mention the availability of medical care. The railway transport system of the USSR transported 2–3 times more cargo than in the USA, and passenger turnover was tens of times higher.

The USSR housed a quarter of all scientists in the whole world. According to WIPO data, the USSR had more than twice the number of inventions of the USA and almost twice the number of inventions of Japan. The USSR is in first place in the world in terms of food consumption per capita for a large number of positions, and among the first in the remaining positions (Ioffe Ya. A. We and the Planet: Figures and Facts. M.: Politizdat, 1. 1988 pp.) .

From a political point of view, the USSR was, according to leading experts of that time, a state with unprecedented internal stability, in which over 90% of the population voted for the existing political government, and there were practically no protests against the current government. Dissidents are a small number of isolated people who have virtually no support within the state.

The economic situation of people within the state was very homogeneous. While the salary of a beginning engineer after graduation was about 100 rubles, and this salary is one of the lowest in the country, the salary of the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee was about 1 rubles. At the same time, a salary of 100 rubles was freely enough to satisfy all basic needs for food, clothing, and to pay for housing.

2. Hypothetical plan for the restoration of capitalism in the USSR

A number of researchers believe that M. S. Gorbachev was a weak person who could not solve the complex problems facing the USSR (for example, V. N. Shved, Who are you, Mr. Gorbachev? A history of mistakes and betrayals. M.: Veche, 2016. 550 p.). However, if you look at his actions, when he freely manipulated many people at the level of ministers and secretaries of the CPSU Central Committee, ministries, and the national economic planning system, then such a person no longer seems weak.

On the contrary, such a person must have an iron will to insist on his own and pursue the policy he wants. And he, of course, understood that if he failed, at best he would face an honorable resignation, like N.S. Khrushchev, and at worst, capital punishment. Such a person could not act without a well-thought-out plan.

So, a certain group of people was given the task: to destroy the USSR and restore capitalism.

What items should their plan include?

In general, their plan should have included the following points:

1. The coming to power in a socialist state of a group of people interested in the restoration of capitalism.

2. Economic reforms aimed at the restoration of capitalism.

3. Transfer of political power to the revived bourgeoisie as a class.

A more detailed plan, which can be implemented after the renegade communists come to political power (items 2 and 3 of the enlarged plan), should look something like this:

1. Denigrate Soviet history so that nothing connects us with the Soviet past, discredit the CPSU. This step was necessary to instill in the people the idea of ​​​​the need to change the political course.

2. To denigrate the goals of the Communist Party, thereby also discrediting the CPSU. This step is necessary to deprive the CPSU of the status of the party in power, as well as to deprive it of the support of the people.

3. Present the situation in such a way that the Communist Party is supposedly divorced from the people. Destroy the connection between the CPSU and the people, destroy the single bloc of party/non-party people. This step is also necessary in order to deprive the CPSU of the status of the party of power in order to deprive it of the support of the people.

4. Destruction of the planned economy, its discredit in the eyes of the people. The goal is to build a capitalist economy from the ruins. Another goal is to show the people that a socialist planned economy is not capable of functioning normally and ensuring deficit-free sustainable growth.

5. Nurturing the market sector in the economy. The goal is to lay the foundation of the free market, which is one of the foundations of capitalism.

6. Nurturing future capitalist owners. The goal is to prepare for the seizure of property, and then power.

7. Introduce into the Supreme Council people with petty-bourgeois psychology and anti-socialist elements (for example, dissidents). The goal is to obtain a governing body for the country that will allow the transition to capitalism to be carried out with minimal resistance.

8. Refusal of the leading and directing role of the party in the life of the country (Article 6 of the USSR Constitution). The goal is to abandon the construction of socialism and further communism in our country.

9. Ban of the CPSU. The goal is to destroy the main organization of your class enemy.

10. Rejection of the principle of prohibiting the exploitation of man by man and the simultaneous introduction of private property. The goal is the final formation of the foundations of a capitalist state.

11. Sale of state property for pennies, primarily to “our” people. The goal is no comment.

Of course, some points of the plans are interconnected and separated from each other here rather conditionally. Some of these points began to be implemented when the previous points of the plan had not yet been completed. This suggests that the implementation of the plan was well coordinated.

Many laws affecting the fundamental interests of the entire people were adopted silently, without discussion, in contradiction with Soviet laws.

3. Sequence of reforms/steps of M. S. Gorbachev / B. N. Yeltsin for the implementation of this plan

The first stage of the bourgeois counter-revolution is completed when a group of renegade communists led by M. S. Gorbachev / B. N. Yeltsin comes to political power in the country.

Its second stage begins - economic reforms. Let's see what reforms M. S. Gorbachev and B. N. Yeltsin carried out, and we will connect their reforms with the corresponding points of the plan for the destruction of the USSR and the restoration of capitalism.

Among M. S. Gorbachev’s first steps was the announcement of a policy of glasnost and pluralism. I.P. Osadchy talks about this in detail in his book (Osadchy I.P. We come from the USSR. Part 2. M.: ITRK, 2012. 740 pp.).

As I. P. Osadchiy writes, in July 1985, A. N. Yakovlev, who had previously worked as the USSR Ambassador to Canada, was elected at the suggestion of M. S. Gorbachev as head of the Propaganda Department of the CPSU Central Committee. A few months later he was elected secretary of the Central Committee and began to deal with issues of ideology, and later with international issues. At the same time, A. N. Yakovlev focused on working with the media.

First of all, he was puzzled by the change of editors-in-chief, who did not satisfy him. One of the first to be replaced was the editor-in-chief of the magazine Kommunist, the theoretical organ of the CPSU Central Committee. The meaning of this step is obvious - the magazine must justify the “perestroika” of M. S. Gorbachev. V. Korotich was appointed editor-in-chief of the Ogonyok magazine. After this, the magazine Ogonyok began publishing extremist, anti-communist publications. Now V. Korotich lives in the USA.

After this, extremist, anti-communist publications began to publish “Arguments and Facts”, “Moscow news", "Moskovsky Komsomolets", "Literary Newspaper", "Izvestia" and other mass publications. At the beginning of 1986, publications began to appear in the press that were critical of certain party organizations and individuals. At the same time, there was no real critical analysis, no solutions to problems were proposed. There was only a desire to denigrate the CPSU.

On May 13–15, 1986, a congress of filmmakers took place. At the congress, the question was raised about changing the organizational forms of cinema, about the material and creative independence of film studios. Some representatives of the “democratic” intelligentsia sharply opposed the ideology and practice of socialism in the USSR, against the leading role of the CPSU.

As a result, the composition of the board was completely renewed. So the “democrats” in cinema won a victory. This congress gave an impetus that provoked similar assessments and conclusions at congresses of other creative unions.

On the other hand, the jamming of radio broadcasts by the BBC, Voice of America and others was canceled.

Thus, anti-communists received full access to Soviet radio, television, and the press to conduct anti-communist propaganda. And anti-communist propaganda poured out in a wide stream, mostly representing lies, fakes, and anti-Soviet fantasies.

However, sometimes it was enough to make a biased selection of facts, showing only the negative and silencing the positive. After this, persecution began and discrediting of party committees, especially city, district, regional, and regional ones.

In this way, points 1–3 of the plan for the destruction of the USSR were resolved.

By the way, now anti-communist, anti-Soviet notes can be found even in magazines that seem far from politics, such as the children's physics and mathematics magazine "Kvant" and the magazine "Tekhnika-Molodezhi". That is, the editorial policy of Soviet magazines has not changed since the time of M. S. Gorbachev. Perhaps the same editors are still there, or maybe they have found a worthy replacement among the anti-communists.

Sergei Kara-Murza wrote well about how the destruction of the planned economy was realized and its discredit in the eyes of the people [17]. To achieve this, various methods were used - from disruption of economic management to outright lies. Let's quote S. Kara-Murza (Kara-Murza S.G. Soviet civilization. Book two. From the Great Victory to the present day. M.: Publishing House EKSMO-Press, 2002. 768 pp.):

“Adviser to the President of the USSR on economic issues, academician. Aganbegyan confirmed the idea of ​​the absurdity of the planned system by the fact that many tractors are produced in the USSR, “While the real need for them in agriculture is 3-4 times less.” This sensational example made the rounds in the Western press and is still widely cited in the literature. In fact, the USSR only in 1988 reached a maximum of 12 tractors per 1 hectares of arable land - with the norm of 000 for Europe (even in Poland there were 120, and in Japan 77). Aganbegyan responded to questions from agricultural deputies with silence. In addition to the “myth of tractors,” a number of similar myths were introduced into the mass consciousness (about steel, about fertilizers, about the unprofitability of collective farms, etc.).”

The management of a planned socialist economy was disrupted by constant, never-ending structural changes in the national economy and personnel changes. Here is what S. Kara-Murza writes about this (Kara-Murza S.G. Soviet civilization. Book two. From the Great Victory to the present day. M.: Publishing house EKSMO-Press, 2002. 768 pp.).

“In one year, the middle management level in the industries was completely eliminated with the transition to a two-tier system “ministry - plant.” In the central government bodies of the USSR and the republics, 593 thousand workers were laid off, of which 81 thousand in Moscow alone (they were employed in other industrial institutions). The number of structural divisions of the central apparatus was reduced by 40%. The direct result of this action was the destruction of the information system of the national economy. Since a computer network for the accumulation, storage and dissemination of information had not yet been created in the USSR, experienced personnel with their documentation were the main elements of the system. When these people were fired, and their notebooks and filing cabinets were dumped in closets, the flow of information was blocked. This was one of the important reasons for the devastation.”

In addition, there were constant mergers/divisions of ministries, in which it was impossible to discern any logic. S. Kara-Murza (Kara-Murza S.G. Soviet civilization. Book two. From the Great Victory to the present day. M.: Publishing House EKSMO-Press, 2002. 768 pp.) gives several examples, but in reality there were more.

“On July 20, 1987, the Ministry of Tractor and Agricultural Engineering of the USSR and the Ministry of Mechanical Engineering for Animal Husbandry of the USSR were liquidated, and on their basis the Ministry of Tractor and Agricultural Engineering of the USSR was created; On December 2, 1988 it was liquidated. At the same time, the USSR Ministry of Automotive Industry was liquidated, and then the USSR Ministry of Automotive and Agricultural Engineering was created.

In November 1985, six agricultural departments were liquidated and the USSR State Agricultural Industry was established. In April 1989, it was abolished, and part of its functions was taken over by the State Commission of the USSR Council of Ministers for Food and Procurement. It was liquidated in April 1991 and the USSR Ministry of Agriculture was formed.

In August 1986, the USSR Ministry of Construction was “zoned” - 4 ministries were created on its basis, in charge of construction in different regions of the USSR. They were abolished in 1989.”

In addition, as V. Shved writes (V. N. Shved, Who are you, Mr. Gorbachev? A history of mistakes and betrayals. M.: Veche, 2016. 550 pp.), out of 115 ministers who worked before M. S. Gorbachev , only 10 people remained. The composition of the CPSU Central Committee was updated by 85%.

In Soviet times, there was such a specialty - “Economic Cybernetics”. Within its framework, in particular, they studied such a discipline as economic dynamics (Granberg A.G. Dynamic models of the national economy. M: “Economy”, 1985. 240 pp.). Unlike economic statics, economic dynamics studies the processes of transition from one state in the economy to another and determines the best development trajectories. In particular, it allows one to estimate the time of transition from one state to another, which for a state like the USSR is much longer than the time intervals between the constant meaningless structural transformations that M. S. Gorbachev carried out, in particular, the merger/division of ministries .

At the same time, such structural changes in the economy led to the need for constant correction of both material balances between industries and production associations, and production plans (Glushkov V.M. Macroeconomic models and principles of constructing OGAS. M.: Publishing House "Statistics", 1975. 160 p.; Kossov V.V. Interindustry balance. M: "Economy", 1966. 224 pp.).

The parallel radical reform of the management apparatus, which was mentioned above, associated, among other things, with the reduction of employees of planning organizations, and the almost complete change of ministers, created conditions in which the work of planning organizations was simply impossible.

It was possible to clearly predict that the result of such activities of M. S. Gorbachev could only be chaos in the planned socialist economy. Such activities of M. S. Gorbachev could only serve as a means of discrediting the planned socialist economy.

As a result of the chaos in the planned economy, a total deficit arose. This is how the task of destroying the planned economy and discrediting it was solved.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

the result of such activity by M. S. Gorbachev could only be chaos in a planned socialist economy.

Yes, a lot has been done in economics and ideology to destroy the USSR!

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote from Uncle Lee

Yes, a lot has been done in economics and ideology to destroy the USSR!

And who did this?! The CPSU was called "the guiding and directing force of Soviet society." And here she has no business at all.
Is it not the party bosses who have accumulated fat without bringing any benefit to the country, and they wanted to convert their social position into capital? This is not one, not two “traitors”, but the social stratum of those in power in the USSR betrayed him.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin

the social stratum of those in power in the USSR betrayed him.

So in the article it’s written about this....

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote from Uncle Lee

So in the article it’s written about this

They only took it from Gorbachev in 1985, when the process had already reached its final stage. The role of such a factor as blat has not been disclosed. Not only in the comedy “You are for me, I am for you,” but in the life of Soviet society, blat much earlier became a means not only to buy scarce goods, to receive from the state what you are entitled to, but even what you are not entitled to: from improving living conditions without a queue, up to half a kilo of “doctor’s” sausage. Promotion was no exception: they promoted “their people” to power, who accept the rules of the game and will support you regardless of the results of your work. Gorbachev is already a natural ending to the Soviet mess.

[boni592807]

Stanislav_Shishkin. (private counter-propaganda department). January 17, 2024 - "...Gorbachev is already a natural ending to the Soviet mess..."

If you ABOUT THE HISTORICAL PERIOD then YES!
If about the state model then NO! Then it was necessary to reconfigure the system. If you remember, there was an association back then - “It’s easier to repair a car than to put it under pressure and just start developing a new one...”. If you remember the military direction. then there were great hopes. that young and experienced Afghans will come to the USSR Ministry of Defense. Some things, for example, in the BP were made taking into account the experience of the DB. There is some association with the Russian Federation now
Compare the current USA. The same period of “self-propelled grandfather Biden” and his family or the “successes” of his so-called. Democratic Party. "Combining personal gain while designating work for party interests." Agree, there will be more of an American mess. ( Agree. Our problems are more important to us). A “showndown” that has happened in the USA more than once is brewing!
With all the chaos created by Gorbachev’s team - the launch of the collapse mechanism (alas, they are right here) it was far from the yawning heights of the American downturn. For reference- "...A shutdown is a temporary suspension of government work. According to the American Constitution, all financial decisions of the government are approved or disapproved by Congress (parliament). Every year, Congress must approve a list of discretionary spending that is not required by law by October 1 - the start of the US fiscal year - otherwise the government will run out of funds. If Congress does not vote to approve discretionary spending, a funding shortfall ensues and the government furloughs government workers without pay, including large swaths of the federal government. ..." - https://vestikavkaza.ru/analytics/satdaun-v-ssa-2023-cto-eto-takoe-i-cem-on-grozit.html

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

First of all, about the historical period. But the state model has also changed. Khrushchev nationalized the economy: artels disappeared, a commodity shortage arose, cronyism and a shadow economy appeared. This contributed to the stratification of society, which had nothing to do with the principle of “to each according to his work.” Because of this, distrust of the authorities grew among the people. Parents recalled the last years of Stalin's rule as the most prosperous in the life of the country: goods became cheaper, wages rose, and post-war crime quickly declined.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

What does it mean in the military direction to give way to young people who have passed through Afghanistan? The Afghan operations were led by older generals such as Sokolov, Varennikov or Akhromeyev. But why, young and not so young, division commanders received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, I can’t understand.
Just so young, Pavel Grachev, who received the title of hero there and later headed the Ministry of Defense. And Rutskoy became vice president under Yeltsin.
So your dreams of promoting internationalist warriors to power came true, even if it was too much.

[Aviator_]

Just so young, Pavel Grachev, who received the title of hero there and later headed the Ministry of Defense.

Yeah, and later he shot the Supreme Soviet and then swore to take Grozny with one regiment. Pasha Mercedes is still such a bastard. “We don’t need smart people, we need faithful ones” (c)

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: boni592807

RECONFIGURING the system. If you remember, there was an association back then - “It’s easier to repair a car than to put it under pressure and just start developing a new one...”.

Regarding the industrial ideology of maintainability in the USSR, I have fewer complaints than with the capitalist industrial ideology of the times of “developed imperialism”: for the broad masses, create goods with a limited service life, so that the masses are forced to buy more often, and for wealthy citizens the fashion industry works: “what how lox dressed up; this model is from the season before last, etc. the need to demonstrate well-being, success. It is necessary to produce new products if they are really improved, but more often this is a design, a label and an advertising sign “new” in the corner...

[Spare]

"3. Present the situation in such a way that the Communist Party is supposedly divorced from the people." - the leadership has clearly become detached from the people.
“6. Nurture of future capitalist owners.” - who all come from the top of the party and the Kosmomol, as well as persons associated with them.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Spare

the elite has clearly become detached from the people

From which it follows that in the USSR there was a negative selection of power: at the top there were disproportionately more people with proprietary interests than those who cared about the interests of Soviet society and the working people of the whole world.

[kalibr]

Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin

From which it follows that in the USSR there was a negative selection of power: at the top there were disproportionately more people with proprietary interests than those who care about the interests of Soviet society and the working people of the whole world

+ + + + + + + + + + +

[Fangaro]

Technology of creeping bourgeois counter-revolution 1985–1993. and how to counteract it

Is it too late to “how to counteract” what happened 40 years ago?
And very well written...
"This work contains an analysis of the events that occurred"

Of course, in 1975 it was possible and necessary to evaluate what was happening in 1935. But then maybe this work shouldn’t be dumped on the pages of VO?

[boni592807]

Fangaro. (Novel).January 16, 2024 - “...Isn’t it too late to “how to counteract” what happened 40 years ago?...”
Somewhat naive. ..Lack of work on past mistakes. fraught with catastrophe in the present and CRASH in future...
Somehow I wouldn’t want to get hung up on a theorem (or axiom) - "...History teaches that it is not taught...!"

[anatolv]

They say that during the years of perestroika, the famous economist Leontyev was invited to the USSR to analyze the state and restructuring of the economy. However, the hopes of the perestroikas were not justified. He found literally a couple of minor points that needed to be corrected. There was no need to touch the rest.

[Reptiloid]

"Leontyev"
He advised not to do anything special, since the crisis of the capitalism was approaching, which could not be survived. Ours did the opposite. That is, instead of minor cosmetic improvements, the building was completely destroyed

[boni592807]

Reptiloid. (Dmitriy). January 16, 2024. yours - "...Ours did the opposite. That is, instead of making minor cosmetic improvements, they completely destroyed the building..."
You could laugh. but somehow it’s not funny:
1. 'Ours" - after all. to "ours" . who has "gesheft". and some are full of guano. straight from the “hard” years of “stagnation”.
2.. "..instead of minor cosmetic improvements, they completely destroyed the building..."
I can't argue with you here...A sharp transition from the elements of the "shop" to the “distribution” of both industries and individual enterprises ... with the registration of “property” after 1991.

[Reptiloid]

You see, Vyacheslav, I thought about all this for a very long time. But I have no personal memories. I remember pieces of television and radio programs, some conversations of adults..... I began to read about the events of the 85-90s much later. When I came to the site. After all, before there was no analysis of what happened for a long time. Just liberal boasting. Unfortunately, I still don’t understand some points

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Sorry, but that’s why you “float” on the main issues. It was not the economic crisis that destroyed the USSR. There was no crisis as such, there were deliberately created difficulties, such as the simultaneous shutdown of all tobacco factories for repairs, or an artificial collapse in oil prices. But states do not collapse due to economic difficulties; they only accompany the collapse or justify it.
Firstly, the country was destroyed by Ukrainian and other regional nationalisms like the Baltic.
Secondly, the social balance in society was disrupted, accompanied by the conscription of students into the army straight from their student days, as well as the low social status of engineers, doctors and other intelligentsia.
Thirdly, the social structure of society was reduced to an almost primitive state according to the pattern of leaders-warriors-hired workers.

[Reptiloid]

And I’m not saying that the economic crisis ruined the country. Because I didn’t find him myself. But now I see that Soviet legacy supported the country all these years. Unfortunately, not only the country, but also all sorts of privatizers. And also other countries lived off this inheritance. Not far from my house there is UNUSED Soviet-era INFRASTRUCTURE! Which was made more than 30 years ago. That is, funds were invested in construction with long-term plans. They knew it would be useful to people. And similar in many ways

[ivan2022]

It is believed that any civilization has limits to growth. The Bible also talks about the limits of human history. This is due to human sinfulness.

But there are peoples, especially “capable” ones.... Who are reaching the finish line ahead of the general schedule.

If some have troubles and problems exclusively from fools, thieves and traitors, then others from “.. isms..”, from the ideas of justice, from the political party of workers and peasants, from collective farms and the State Planning Committee, and so on.
I don't feel sorry for them.

[dmi.pris1]

There is only one reason. This is my opinion. In the CPSU they followed a career, and not at the behest of the heart, soul... Idealists, communists, became their bones in the Second World War. Next came the careerists. Personally, I did not join the party, although I was in serious Komsomol work in mid-80s. And they almost dragged me there by the ears... I saw what was happening in the party ranks then.

[P]

communists are materialists. Idealists are their opponents

[Lech from Android.]

Look at the communist Zyuganov and draw conclusions... he talks a lot, he speaks colorfully, but his words have no appeal for the masses.
Well, now a communist cannot compete with those who are now rushing to power... trust in him has been undermined too much.
How did the communists so quickly change into bourgeoisie in the 90s....into owners of banks, factories, shops...something is wrong with their ideas, if the top of the CPSU very often quickly fled to their native places.
Such duplicity in the souls of these people is simply repulsive.

[ivan2022]

Look better at Christ!
Which Zyuganov is far from... Although some of his party are already in prison... But they didn’t even support Christ. And after 33 years it came true: “No stone will be left unturned here..”. By merit

By the way, this year it will be 33 years since they betrayed everything that was possible and impossible, and Zyuganov is to blame for this, for which I congratulate

You might think that Zyuganov owes you something.....heh. heh.. how is it with Pushkin? “They need to be cut or trimmed.” That's right!

[P]

I have a better candidate. Let's look at Dunno

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Look at the communist Zyuganov

The Communist Party of the Russian Federation can hardly be called a communist party. These are more right-wing conservatives. If Lenin and the Bolsheviks came to power now, Zyuganov would be the first to be used up - the first!

[paul3390]

It’s interesting - looking at everything that has happened over the past 50 years, are there still people who believe that Comrade Stalin organized the 37th solely out of personal bloodthirstiness and sadism?

[P]

by 37, the Nazis had been in power in Germany for 4 years, war was inevitable and there were no prospects for victory without major changes

[your1970]

Quote: paul3390

Are there still people who believe that Comrade Stalin organized the 37th solely out of personal bloodthirstiness and sadism?

- Crooks? Vore? Corrupt officials? Mediocrity?
Since we started with the Lenin Guard, apparently there was a breeding ground there?
So, in principle, it is clear that in the waves of revolution the very thing that does not sink will always float, and Stalin only removed a little of the foam.
The problem is that if a revolution happens now, the same thing that doesn’t sink will float to the top again, and this time Russia may drown in them....

[Reptiloid]

Quote: your1970

... it is clear that in the waves of revolution the very thing that does not sink will always float, and Stalin only removed a little of the foam.
The problem is that if a revolution happens now, the same thing that doesn’t sink will float to the top again, and this time Russia may drown in them....

I was just thinking about this. People believed things like that back then. And in the 90s. Now, probably, few people do. Some careerists from the start, or youngsters without brains who ran to Navalny.

[your1970]

Quote: Reptiloid

Now, probably, few people do.

For 10 years you have been shown an exemplary division of power in Ukraine. This is, of course, not a socialist revolution, but it is a common basis.
And Sashko Bily is a classic example of a revolutionary.
He opened doors with his foot everywhere - and accidentally committed suicide with two shots to the head.
If there had been a socialist revolution, they would have been shot by the decision of the tribunal “Guided by revolutionary legal consciousness...”

[Reptiloid]

If you remember how their first revolution of hydity took place, and then the second Maidan, then this is some kind of garbage. The slogan Ukraine ---- tse europa! Why does Europe need it? What was immediately obvious. But, of course, it reminds us of our navalnyts with their slogans. The goal is to get everything for free without doing anything.
But while mocking and condemning the dill, we should not forget about the Uniate underground in Soviet Ukraine and about the Banderaites who spread throughout Ukraine and even in places in the USSR. Which moved from open struggle to infiltration into government bodies. These actions have now brought their negative results. And people asked in surprise ---- how can this be?

[Aviator_]

Which moved from open struggle to infiltration into government bodies. These actions have now brought their negative results. And people asked in surprise ---- how can this be?

Dmitry, even ISIS members have an ideological program. Some other question, but they have. But the CPSU of the time of Brezhnev did not have any. That's why we came. And even now it is not clear where we are going - 30 years of capitalism have already passed (1993-2023) - if we compare it with 30 years of socialism (1917-1947), the result will be obvious.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Aviator_

...... now it is not clear where we are going - 30 years of capitalism have already passed (1993-2023) - if we compare with 30 years of socialism (1917-1947) the result will be obvious.

Yes, Sergey! I also wrote about this. There is not only no clear program for the future, but there are not even intentions about the future! Just as there is no analysis of the present yet. What have we been building for 30 years? And what happened? That is, like a taboo. Or you can’t say anything about it, so as not to scare I once wrote Bolshevik slogans. Clear, understandable to everyone.
About Ukrainians. I'll add to the previous one. Now more and more of them will come to Russia. As is already happening, of course there will be not only obvious terrorists, but also “alien elements.” How our organs will behave. Especially now, when who knows what kind of people have grown up among their population, and here there are also some refugees with a fig in their pocket, not counting the “those who came in large numbers.” How ready is the country to increase its population like this?

[Aviator_]

Yes, Dmitry, there will be a lot of problems. Now, on the eve of the elections, events related to ethnic diasporas are being covered, but mainly only cases of hooliganism. But cases of economic crimes somehow don’t happen, it seems. I remember that during the showdown in South Butovo a couple of years ago, even Magomed Tolboev, a retired test pilot, spoke out in defense of his fellow tribesmen. The same one who claimed that it was impossible to fill an American drone with a Su-30 with kerosene, when it was filled with kerosene and the drone crashed into the Black Sea. Such an expert in old age.

[Aviator_]

or young animals without brains who ran to Navalny.

Why "either"? The bulk without brains are geniuses of consumerism (the image of “The Man Unsatisfied with Gastrointestinal Dissatisfaction” from “Monday” by the Strugatskys). By the way, Dmitry, I highly recommend reading it, the early Strugatskys wrote well, but later, by the end of the 70s, they went rotten.

[Reptiloid]

Sergey, I watched this film online.

Monday starts on Saturday

In my opinion, some 50-60 years. Black and white! I had great pleasure! Although, you know, I often don’t understand Soviet films I read something earlier... a long time ago

[Aviator_]

This is a black and white production of Leningrad Television. Still, read, the production does not cancel the original. The book is small, written in 1964. Production from about the same year. The sequel, written in the mid-70s (The Tale of the Troika) is liberal stinking nonsense.

[Reptiloid]

I read both MONDAY and THE TALE. Still at school. I immediately liked MONDAY, but I didn’t like THE TALE. although I, of course, knew nothing about liberals, but I didn’t like it and that’s all!

[Aviator_]

Yes, this fairy tale is crap, the authors have gone rotten, and they began to stink, the further they went, the more so. If they had criticized the case (there was something to criticize), then no, they participated in the persecution of Kochetov with his novel “What Do You Want,” where Kochetov directly outlined the entire lack of ideas of existence, when Khrushch was rejected and Stalin was not returned. So Kochetov committed suicide, to the joy of all members (I almost wrote another name that corresponds to the female structure of the body) of the Union of Writers of the USSR.

[Reptiloid]

Yes, Kochetov was persecuted from all sides. Amazing foresight. These “infiltrators” for the destruction of the USSR can be compared to personified sins. But that's what happened

[Was mammoth]

“The Communist Party of the Russian Federation can hardly be called a communist party. They are rather right-wing conservatives. If Lenin and the Bolsheviks came to power now, Zyuganov would be the first to be used up - the first!”

Well, like this... . The main propagandist of capitalist power, Soloviev, very often calls himself a Marxist.
Demagoguery is a terrible weapon. And, it was used with all its might for the collapse of the USSR.

[Subtext]

Demagoguery is a terrible weapon. And, it was used with all its might for the collapse of the USSR.

Faust (Goethe)/Part One/Scene 11. Street:

Who wants to be right and speaks the language,
He will always be able to be right.

[Reptiloid]

Greetings, MAMMOTH!!

Quote: Was Mammoth

....Demagoguery is a terrible weapon. And, it was used with all its might for the collapse of the USSR.

It seems to me that when people began to destroy the gains of socialism under Gorbachev’s slogans, that

more socialism!

Someone believed and imagined a new Revolution. At the same time, there was a song where the words

and the hunchbacked leader mocks! Atas!

Someone understood what was happening.

[your1970]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Demagoguery is a terrible weapon.

it always works and even in this article -
“While the salary of a beginning engineer after graduation was about 100 rubles, and this salary is one of the lowest in the country, the salary of the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee was about 1 rubles.” - at the same time, Galina Brezhneva bought jewelry. The most expensive was a diamond necklace bought for 100 rubles. This is her dad’s salary for 90 years. Moreover, the purchases were regular and not once every 000 years.
To hell with the money - but the entire top of the party saw it, the KGB saw it, the Ministry of Internal Affairs saw it - and everyone tried on themselves: “Galya can do it, but why am I worse?”
And this was disintegrating the party at an accelerated pace without any CIA

And yes
“In addition to the “myth about tractors,” a number of similar myths (about steel, about fertilizers, about the unprofitability of collective farms, etc.)." - I don’t know about the other “myths”, but metal workers have been collecting steel in the fields for 30 years and it still doesn’t end. It was abandoned in our fields for some 50 -60 years so much - that there is a feeling that some kind of Azovstal worked for scrap metal in our fields.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: your1970

..... "In addition to the “myth about tractors,” a number of similar myths (about steel, about fertilizers, about the unprofitability of collective farms, etc.)." - I don’t know about the other “myths”, but metal workers have been collecting steel in the fields for 30 years and it still doesn’t end. It was abandoned in our fields for some 50 -60 years so much - that there is a feeling that some kind of Azovstal worked for scrap metal in our fields.

That's about it, sorry did not understand

[your1970]

Quote: Reptiloid

Quote: your1970

..... "In addition to the “myth about tractors,” a number of similar myths (about steel, about fertilizers, about the unprofitability of collective farms, etc.)." - I don’t know about the other “myths”, but metal workers have been collecting steel in the fields for 30 years and it still doesn’t end. It was abandoned in our fields for some 50 -60 years so much - that there is a feeling that some kind of Azovstal worked for scrap metal in our fields.

That's about it, sorry did not understand

The task is to “catch up and surpass America in the production of cast iron and steel!!” - and then they reported that “We have caught up and surpassed America in steel production!”
And the wildest mismanagement led to the fact that some Azovstal was working idle; with more or less normal management, it would not even have been possible to build it and save ALL resources - human/financial/human

[Reptiloid]

Thank you, I didn’t know that, I didn’t read it. But “catch up and overtake” is Khrushchev’s slogan? Like “corn is the queen of the fields.” Also experiments on nature. To cancel the Stalinist program for the restoration of nature, Khrushchev came up with something unknown. Well, it didn’t come to the point of changing the flow of the rivers

[Aviator_]

Khrushchev came up with something unknown. Well, it didn’t come to the point of changing the flow of the rivers

Dmitry, using part of the flow of Siberian rivers is part of Stalin’s plan. Moreover, this project was partially completed - the large industrial city of Karaganda is powered from the Irtysh. And nothing, it didn’t get any worse in Siberia. If the project had been carried out, the Aral would have been restored. But stupid academic people came out (Zaslavskaya, etc.) and that’s all.

[Reptiloid]

That's not what I mean. It was supposed to turn something back. And partially lay out new river beds. Unsuccessful

[Aviator_]

It was supposed to turn something back.

Dmitry, about the “turn” - this is a vulgar reinterpretation of the strict title of the document “Use of part of the flow of Siberian rivers for the needs of irrigation of the steppes of the Stalingrad, Saratov, Orenburg regions and northern Kazakhstan. In the eastern part these are the same virgin lands, but reclaimed, that is, with productivity , like in Kuban. And none of the stupidity of Khrushchev’s virgin lands without irrigation. And the liberals screamed that under Stalin’s plan, the Siberian swamps would expand almost to Novosibirsk.

[Reptiloid]

That's it! Thank you I will find out
Search the web.

[dmi.pris1]

I just made a certain conclusion for myself then. I admit, due to inexperience, I framed one person at the factory.. And after that they began to pull me into the party. It dawned on me what kind of people are needed in the party

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

And what's wrong with that? The ability to defend one’s own opinion and interests (“bumping elbows”) is not such an unnecessary skill, even if mistakes are made.
You, like Doctor Watson, when evaluating Sherlock Holmes, confuse the sign, putting a “minus” where a “plus” is needed.

[P]

How did you see Zyuganov as a communist?

[Belisarius]

An important and generally correct article (although in its pure form and not on the VO profile).
The topic is very complex, so just a couple of comments. Everything is written beautifully, but
1) The author writes about Marxism-Leninism, but in his plan for the destruction of the USSR, the emphasis is on the primary destruction of the superstructure, not the base. This is no longer Leninism, and certainly not classical Marxism, this is post-Marxism (in the spirit of Gramsci), and modern technologies of mind control. That is, Marxism-Leninism alone, with all due respect to him, cannot be done here. And a certain “economism” of thinking still slips through his mind; after the first personnel, the second economic stage of reforms began. In practice, along with personnel and before economic, there was ideological.
2) The author describes everything correctly and perfectly regarding what happened after 1985 and Gorbachev’s coming to power. But the question is literally hanging in the air, how did he come to power? ? Together with Yakovlev, Shevardnadze, etc. After all, it was not the Jewish reptilians or CIA agents who delivered them to us. This is the most important thing - what are the reasons, what mistakes led to the personnel degeneration of the party, to the fact that anti-communists became its leader? After all, the party was guided by the advanced, scientific theory of building society and correctly led us along the path of development of socialism. We will not be able to counteract anything in the future if we do not answer this question.

[ivan2022]

It is curious that the leaders of the European revolutions and the Paris Commune of 1871 were not guided by any theories at all. Just like the leaders of the bourgeois revolutions of the 17th and 18th centuries. And most of them did not know who Marx and Engels were.

They simply did what was beneficial to their class. And Marx created a theory based on practice. Otherwise, theories will not be created.

But in our country it is even customary to condemn the “wrong theory of Marx”.... Although this is complete idiocy and self-recognition of one’s own inferiority: to build for 70 years, and then “discover” that “Marx was wrong.” There is nothing like this anywhere in the world except mental hospitals....

[Galina Mylnikova]

I’m also curious, why Cromwell and others like him later in France, for example, Danton, did not know either Marx or Engels?!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Galina Mylnikova

I’m also curious, why Cromwell and others like him later in France, for example, Danton, did not know either Marx or Engels?!

This is why, Galina, they were probably subjected like many others

[P]

The USSR was broken strictly according to Marx and Lenin, guidelines for action that captured the masses, all entirely of a class nature, privatization - class, denomination - class.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: ivan2022

..... But in our country it is even customary to condemn the “incorrect theory of Marx” .... Although this is complete idiocy and self-recognition of one’s own inferiority: to build for 70 years, and then “discover” that “Marx was wrong.” ....

in my opinion, something else is surprising - to destroy everything, not get positive results in 30 years and continue to persist in this. LEM just comes to mind. About "sobing"

[paul3390]

After all, the party was guided by the advanced, scientific theory of building society

Actually, exactly what Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin so often warned against happened. Everything is very clearly described in their works - the danger of the degeneration of the party, and the consequences, and methods for preventing this.. Straight from the textbook. So, the theory was correct, but the tops didn’t want to follow it.. And the bottoms openly missed out on this moment, due to complacency, illiteracy and unwillingness to pay attention to dangerous warning signs.. But Joseph Vissarionovich postulated not in vain, oh not in vain that as we move towards communism, the class struggle will only intensify! Science first...

[P]

there is a cure, the soviets do not need to disarm, they do not need to elect anyone from outside the labor collective and, of course, be formed only on the production principle.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: paul3390

..... But it was not in vain that Joseph Vissarionovich postulated that as we move towards communism, the class struggle will only intensify! Science first...

Pavel, I think several years ago Alexander Greene explained very well. That we later believed that there were no longer class contradictions, since the exploiting classes ceased to exist. And I didn’t remember the words about the degeneration of the nomenklatura!!!! We didn’t even think about box office conflicts with foreign countries

[october]

I will only answer the first point

1) The author writes about Marxism-Leninism, but in his plan for the destruction of the USSR, the emphasis is on the primary destruction of the superstructure, not the base. This is no longer Leninism, and certainly not classical Marxism, this is post-Marxism (in the spirit of Gramsci), and modern technologies of mind control. That is, Marxism-Leninism alone, with all due respect to him, cannot be done here. And a certain “economism” of thinking still slips through his mind; after the first personnel, the second economic stage of reforms began. In practice, along with personnel and before economic, there was ideological.

Marxism is a living teaching; only the Gorbachevs turn it into dogma, because it’s more convenient to manipulate. Here is a quote from the Diamat textbook for 1954 [Dialectical materialism, ed. G.F.Alexandrova, 1954]:

The Marxist dialectical method rejects the abstract consideration of form, the separation of form from content, as a type of metaphysical method hostile to dialectics and idealism hostile to materialism.

и

But the Marxist dialectical method also sees the other side of the development process - the activity of form, the reverse influence of form on content. The form has relative independence in development. Form can promote the development of content, accelerate its development, and can also inhibit the development of content. This position of Marxist dialectics is convincingly revealed in the above example of the contradictory development of productive forces and production relations, in which production relations are the form, and productive forces are the content of social production.

[turembo]

The party began to die since the death of Stalin, not only politically but also economically. As a result, they reached the point that the union at the top was simply no longer needed by anyone, the fish had rotted so much that there was not a single person in the country who would try to save the country with their actions, to fall apart, yes, all together, but unfortunately to save no one. Yes, and people were already lugging around chewing gum and jeans, and on the ground they were diligently taking away everything that was in bad shape, and there was also McDonald’s with Pizza Hut. It’s not only Gorbachev and Yeltsin who are to blame, everyone is to blame, from petty speculators and quitters to the party nomenklatura, who, so to speak, also bought into lace panties and soda. And then 30 years passed and it turned out that we were deceived, and of course the communists are to blame. Wake up, the communists died along with Stalin, survived for a couple of decades at the expense of ideologically loyal people and collapsed. Look who is in power now, almost all of yesterday's communists, the Komsomol, the party, it seems that all party members, but they did not accept the ideals of communism, so they changed their shoes instantly, and they will have to do it again......

[Galina Mylnikova]

Well, lace panties and soda in the USSR produced, for example, the excellent Baikal. So, friend, they bought into something much more - absolute power and privatization of the country.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

If they produced it, it was distributed extremely unevenly. In Ukraine, Belarus, the capital cities of the RSFSR and other national republics there was enough food. For almost ten years now, only sausage cheese and liverwurst were on free sale, and eggs were so expensive that we could not afford them in abundance.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

.... for almost ten years we had only sausage cheese and liver sausage on free sale, and eggs were so expensive that we could not afford them in abundance.

Where was it? Before school, I probably lived next door to you.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

It took place in the Volga region, in the Volga region.

[Reptiloid]

I am in the Far East, on the coast, in geology before school with my parents, they are assigned from Leningrad

[P]

the point is not in ideals, but in the fact that the party has become the only political subject due to objective reasons. The Soviets were supposed to become the basis of the USSR, but they didn’t, they couldn’t, first of all, when they disarmed, and after the reform of 1935-36, they, as an independent entity, could be given up. In the new round, the Soviets will have to defend themselves anew

[parusnik]

The counter-revolution began under I.V. Stalin and he was well aware of this; it was not for nothing that in the last years of his life he said that we need theory, we cannot live without theory. Khrushchev N.S. “expanded” the counter-revolution, L.I. Brezhnev slowed it down slightly, Gorbachev “deepened” it.

[bober1982]

Quote: parusnik

The counter-revolution began under I.V. Stalin and he was well aware of this

If this very counter-revolution began under Stalin, then what happened in the period 1985-1993, if the author defined this period of time as a creeping bourgeois counter-revolution.
The very concept of bourgeois counter-revolution, in my opinion, is unfortunate and even ridiculous.
There are only solid bourgeois counter-revolutionaries - Khrushchev and others, throughout all the compositions of the Politburo and the Central Committee of the CPSU, and all 20 million party members.

[parusnik]

You don’t say for all 20 million, as I understand it, before becoming a champion of Orthodoxy, you were a member of the CPSU, but were not a communist? Although they wrote in the application for admission, I want to be in the forefront of the builders of communism. But they didn’t intend to build it, they were just a member, to receive some benefits, and this is where the counter-revolution begins, and precisely the bourgeois way of thinking.

[bober1982]

Quote: parusnik

You were a member of the CPSU, but were not a communist? Although they wrote in the application for admission

I was not a member of the CPSU, I was an October student, a pioneer, a Komsomol member, a non-party member, and, furthermore, a champion of Orthodoxy.

[Foul skeptic]

I was not a member of the CPSU, I was an October student, a pioneer, a Komsomol member

Vladimir, then Alexey’s question can be rephrased without losing its meaning:
- You were a member of the Komsomol, but you were not a “communist youth” (that is, the same communist, but young)?

[bober1982]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

You were a member of the Komsomol, but were not a “communist youth” (that is, the same communist, but young)?

No, I was not a young communist.
I joined the Komsomol in 1974, as a 14-year-old teenager, according to school regulations.
In the Soviet Union, everyone was an October warrior, a pioneer, and a Komsomol member.

[Foul skeptic]

No, I was not a young communist.

Well, you see, but 20 million people like you, who “weren’t there”, were left behind. ))

In the Soviet Union, everyone was an October warrior, a pioneer, and a Komsomol member.

Cross out Komsomol members from the list; every fifth potential “Komsomol member by age” was not a member of the Komsomol.

[bober1982]

If I had added up the Komsomol members, the numbers would have been different - much higher.
You greatly exaggerate the role of “young communists” in strengthening socialism.
At best - empty formality and tedium at meetings, at worst - drunkenness and debauchery.
I really liked and still like how young Margarita Terekhova dances the twist in the film “Hello, it’s me” - the standard for performing a twist.
What kind of communism is this?

[Foul skeptic]

If I had added up the Komsomol members, the numbers would have been different - much higher.

It was an analogy

You greatly exaggerate the role of “young communists” in strengthening socialism.

In the 70-80s there was no “strengthening of socialism”. Fiction. Loafers needed the Komsomol exclusively for universities

What kind of communism is this?

None. Which again brings us back to the manipulative nature of the statement about “20 million communists”

[parusnik]

I was not a member of the CPSU, I was an October student, a pioneer, a Komsomol member

When you joined the Komsomol, you wrote in your application: I want to be in the forefront of the builders of communism. Did you want to be one? You knew that without membership in the Komsomol, there would be difficulties with admission. That’s why you voted against such people on the school committee. For which I received the nickname “Trotskyist-Menshevik”, they worked on me and persuaded me. I excused myself with articles of the Komsomol and CPSU Charters about democratic centralism, he said about the Second Congress of the RSDLP, where the Menshevik formulation on party membership was adopted... But nevertheless, he was expelled from the committee. But he no longer joined the party, although they were offered.

[bober1982]

Quote: parusnik

These are the ones I voted against on the school committee.

Quote: parusnik

I was worked through and persuaded

What passions were boiling.
We didn’t even have class meetings, I don’t remember, there were general school meetings, but very rarely, what are the first ranks of the builders of communism, don’t tell me.

[parusnik]

do not make me laugh

And I’m not going to, they wrote a statement... Everyone wrote, you wrote, and I wrote, but someone wrote sincerely, they were a clear minority and every year there were fewer and fewer of them, those who did not write sincerely there were more and more of them and this began already during the formation of Soviet power, but exactly the opposite... Ilf and Petrov correctly wrote that along with the Big World, there is a Small World and as a result: the Small World defeated the Big... And do you think this was only in the USSR? No.. This is a centuries-old problem of all popular movements from time immemorial.. We will not look far. Nicaragua. The Sandinistas are far from communists, but nevertheless, they still trust them, but the elite that led the movement against Samosa now have huge means, clannishness and so on, so on..

[bober1982]

Quote: parusnik

they wrote a statement

The office writes, authors of the catchphrase you mentioned Ilf and Petrov
Or more .......... shame is not smoke, it doesn’t hurt your eyes (proverb)

[parusnik]

Let’s stop there, at the office... And how many of you were there in the office? Komsomol, CPSU? Who wrote... And before you, those who wrote, they didn’t build someone, they didn’t give them enough time, they didn’t feed them, they didn’t let them go... and how everything was bad..

[Knell wardenheart]

It is useless to argue with leftists when the “end” has begun. The Stalinists will tell you that after Stalin, a classical Bolshevik would tell you that after the death of Lenin, those who lived in that era will be divided in their testimony into “after Khrushchev” and “when Brezhnev had a stroke.” Many will say that Gorbachev brought it all to fruition, others will remember Andropov with his clumsy measures.

Paradoxically, growth and development were combined in the USSR with serious illnesses - then, when growth was significant and significantly outstripped the factor of degradation, there was a feeling that it was not there, but it was always there. A sort of “complex decline” VS “focal high-intensity growth.”
As a result, the centers of growth withered away (many, not all) by 1980 and a complex decline took place.

[P]

The free cities were full of feudal orders. They were captured and subjugated by feudal lords, but capitalism still arrived

[P]

What makes you laugh? Counter-revolution is a fact outside the window. There was socialism, they returned capitalism. The struggle grew and gave this result. And the names are for idiots. Hitler also led the "socialist" and "labor" parties

[S.Z.]

I completely agree with you and Stalin :) Time has changed, but the theory has not. Socialism was being built for the first time, without experience and without really working plans based on theory (and what else without practice), the end was predictable.

You haven't mentioned Andropov yet, perhaps his methods could have worked.

[parusnik]

You haven't mentioned Andropov yet

If Andropov had lived longer, perestroika would have begun with him, not with the State Migration Service.

[S.Z.]

It started with him, only in the other direction.

[parusnik]

You are wrong, like many others...

[S.Z.]

Maybe yes maybe no.

I only saw what I saw - workers' squads who patrolled the streets and cinemas and checked documents - why aren't you at work? I saw people leaving work so that the patrol wouldn't catch you.

As I realized later, many directors of enterprises were imprisoned for underwriting - and underwriting was rampant, so they were imprisoned as quickly as possible. That is, later I had friends whose parents were imprisoned for this.

I saw changes in the schedules of stores and government agencies so that their opening hours would overlap less with main production facilities.

Andropovka vodka also appeared at, I think, 4.07, it was not very praised, but it was cheaper and was readily accepted.

That is, all this looked completely different from how it did during perestroika. Radically not so. Quite the opposite.

And yes, I saw the revival of the cult of Stalin.

[parusnik]

And yes, I saw the revival of the cult of Stalin.

No, I’m not a Stalinist, I just separate the wheat from the chaff, I have two degrees, historical and legal. Yes, all this happened. The only difference is that Yu.V. Andropov, was not much smarter than GMS, did not force events. Didn’t consider it necessary.. GMS, he forced it

[S.Z.]

I am a technician, so I am an amateur in history and politics.

Maybe that's why I don't understand you. I don't see the similarity.

I think that Andropov was trying to return the business model to a centralized basis, increase the responsibility of performers, bring reporting to reality - that is, use the administrative apparatus, having previously cleaned it up.

Gorbachev decided to conduct a gigantic experiment, relying on the existing apparatus.

Perhaps Andropov simply understood better what was happening - simply because of his position. He had black glasses rather than rose-colored ones.

The existing economic model - and the political one too - were no longer adequate to the situation, but where to move, IMHO, these people had different ideas.

[Knell wardenheart]

Perhaps the role played here is that the HMS was put forward and promoted by Andropov, at least I heard that, but there was no desire to bury ourselves head over heels in rotten political science to clarify the nuances of the late 70s and early 80s.

As far as I understand, Andropov himself, when he was the head of the KGB under Brezhnev, had his fill of the mess that “from above”, for one reason or another (including party ones), was not allowed to clean up. As a result, having come to power, he tried to begin to warm it up, but behind this there was no set of ideas about how and what should be, and most importantly, by that time the system had already been thoroughly deteriorated and it was necessary to either recognize and partially legitimize the current status (“Perestroika” ), or arrange some kind of analogue of the “cultural revolution” with the Red Guards and “fire on the headquarters.” For the second, Andropov no longer had the strength and health, so what he did, in my opinion, cannot be considered as an unambiguous set of measures or a plan - it was in many ways a palleative, an attempt with aggressive shamanism to stir up something much more inert than they could.

For the above reason, I don’t particularly want to analyze his personnel changes, but perhaps he was simply trying to rejuvenate the stagnant gerontocracy with people “from the outside.” At the same time, these were not Stalinists, as far as I know, so I cannot consider him a “Stalinist”.

[S.Z.]

I think it’s pointless to guess what Andropov was like, since he ruled little and didn’t have time to show himself. You could see where he started, that's all we know.

The concept of “Stalinist” is vague; some of my friends who call themselves that are, in my opinion, clearly not Stalinists. If we equate this concept with “supporters of strict centralized administrative and repressive measures” - then. Probably Andropov was a Stalinist, no further.

His popularity was high - but it was high for Gorbachev at the initial stage, and for Yeltsin too. This applies to many senior leaders.

[Knell wardenheart]

I wanted to go through the “Stalinists”, since we soon came up with such a concept. In my opinion, “Stalinism” can be formulated as “a dogmatic and authoritarian left-wing policy that uses aggressive radical populism, as well as practices of legal alienation and extra-legal actions to achieve stated goals or get closer to them.”
In other words, as far as I can imagine, the concept of “law” for a Stalinist is a concept emanating from him and not existing in an independent form. In order to achieve the goal as quickly as possible (hurriedness goes hand in hand with ostentatious radicalism in this ideology), any methods that do not come into open conflict with dogma are recognized, and “public support” for such actions is provided by both the atmosphere of uncompromising cruelty and the cult-like practices of creating a contrast between “sick and healthy”, “vital and decadent”, in other words, populist practices that support radical actions that demonstrate (among the masses) conviction and willingness to make sacrifices (of course, mainly those of others).
Stalinists recognize the fastest achievement of the “goal” as the main task, and the “daring” with which this goal is achieved is the highest valor. The costs associated with such methods of action are automatically recognized as “inevitable, price”, debates are considered as opportunism and a form of sabotage of the “fastest possible means”, with all the consequences for the debaters. In view of this, “Stalinism” is an authoritarian-oriented model, since “authority” is the only way out if it is impossible to test the adequacy and nuances of decisions through debate.
The average redneck appreciates “Stalinism” primarily because it doesn’t bother with all sorts of bullshit and chicanery and can lay a track from point A to point B through any topology of space. The fact that at this point in space the redneck himself may be beyond his perception of things is something that Stalinism actively takes advantage of, exploiting dashing patterns.

[S.Z.]

It’s difficult for you, they won’t understand :)
I think that Stalin was neither a leftist, nor a dogmatist, much less a populist.
He acted, IMHO, in the way that he considered necessary at a particular moment, without regard to any principles - be it moral, legal, or ideological.
He supported the Comintern - and stopped supporting it when he considered it more profitable, put pressure on the church - and turned to it when he considered it necessary, introduced shoulder straps and officer ranks - IMHO, many do not appreciate the psychological effect of this, but it was enormous. He turned on and off the mechanism of repression, executed and pardoned - that is, he acted in the most effective way for a politician, namely, taking into account only the balance of power, but not ideas.
He knew how to turn everything he touched into an instrument of power - ideas, principles, people. All this served him, not he them.
What goals did he set? Who knows...

[Knell wardenheart]

And I’m not talking about Stalin, Sergei ;-) I’m talking about the Stalinists! These are different things - it’s like Elvis Presley and his imitators, crazy about the image, style and music.

He knew how to turn everything he touched into an instrument of power - ideas, principles, people

That’s also how they look at everything (everyone) as a tool. For them, the essence of why everything is done goes beyond the dashing style of how they do it. It seems to them that the style itself is so cool and effective that it can handle any problem. Like Stalin himself, they do not think much about the consequences of their activities, believing that within the framework of absolute control, which they postulate, these consequences will simply disappear.

[S.Z.]

Here you are right - Jehovah is one thing, his sectarians are another matter.
As for whether Stalin thought about the consequences or not - probably. thought about it, but considered the risks acceptable.
This is not known exactly, of course. His moral principles are completely incomprehensible. However, like other rulers.

[your1970]

Quote: parusnik

The counter-revolution began under I.V. Stalin and he was well aware of this; it was not for nothing that in the last years of his life he said that we need theory, we cannot live without theory. Khrushchev N.S. “expanded” the counter-revolution, L.I. Brezhnev slowed it down slightly, Gorbachev “deepened” it.

If your statement is correct, socialism is a stillborn theory due to the fact that Stalin was the only one in the entire country and he cannot repeat himself. And all the other party workers you named led to collapse.
A theory is not viable if it works under one person and does not work well under other leaders.

[Nikolay Malyugin]

It is now clear that if all countries have the same values, then this leads to world war. At least one country must differ in all respects from the rest of the world. And this difference must be in favor of the interests of the people of this country. Truman noticed the strongest side of the Soviet communists of that period. This is the powerful organizing ability of the USSR party. A struggle began against this. In addition, over time, the party began to become bureaucratic. The best forces turned into officials. This is a great test. Climbing to the top, and also believing that comfort does not yet await at the top.

[Vladimir80]

Technology of creeping bourgeois counter-revolution 1985–1993. and how to counteract it

Comrade Petrov was 30 years late with his proposals, although given the popularity among the population, reading about alternative history will do!

[north 2]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Look at the communist Zyuganov and draw conclusions... he talks a lot, he speaks colorfully, but his words have no appeal for the masses.
Well, now a communist cannot compete with those who are now rushing to power... trust in him has been undermined too much.
How did the communists so quickly change into bourgeoisie in the 90s....into owners of banks, factories, shops...something is wrong with their ideas, if the top of the CPSU very often quickly fled to their native places.
Such duplicity in the souls of these people is simply repulsive.

All the “emptiness” of the Zyuganov communists was inherited from the communists of the Brezhnev era. And it lies in the fact that it is now clear that if membership in the Communist Party is not a prerequisite for achieving anything in life, then the Communist Party, as a spiritually close ideology or the only true teaching, does not attract people. The same would have happened in the Brezhnev era , if they had not then set the conditions that if you are not a member of the CPSU, you will not achieve anything worthwhile in life and in your career. That then the result was emptiness from the artificial, that now the communists are in emptiness from the genuine

[ivan2022]

What is “natural” for us?
Russian and non-Russian people create gangs and gangs of thieves everywhere. At all levels. But they cannot create a fair party in politics. This is what is “natural”. What they sow is what they reap.

[P]

It's not even a matter of achievement, but of real management. In decision-making and in the appointment/revocation of each functionary, including senior ones. The workers were excluded from this process, but as soon as the opportunity arose, they became involved in the process to the maximum. Yes, it is destructive, but if the workers have real power, the picture is different. The main thing is not to release it, like weapons, of course

[rotmistr60]

Events that took place in our country in 1985–1993. radically changed our lives, changed the balance of power in the world

I don’t even want to remember the events of that period, because... two figures Gorbachev - Yeltsin did what the collective West could not do for many years. One led to the collapse of the Soviet Union, the other, with the stroke of a pen, destroyed it. If we remember it, it will be as a lesson for the future what power in the hands of political crooks and careerists and a policy completely conciliatory with the West can lead to.

[S.Z.]

Making plans for past events is a thankless task; the main disadvantage of this is its absolute uselessness.

The author recounts the events, but draws absolutely fantastic conclusions.

"The ruling party - the CPSU - consisted of about 20 million people out of 300 million inhabitants? This question never ceases to worry many people."

There is no mystery; people were accepted into the party formally, just to get the required number; out of millions of “members,” there were several hundred or thousand communists. It was more difficult for a non-party member to build a career, that’s all.

“Therefore, I believe that the Marxist-Leninist theory that was used in the creation of this state is certainly correct.”

A conclusion that completely contradicts events. The figures were unverified. It’s similar to the fact that today they talk about economic success on the screens, and prices are rising, that is, it’s just a lie, just like then. There were numbers, but no goods.

The correctness of the theory of communism has not been proven, nor has it been proven to be incorrect. It remains a theory without successful practice. 70 years of wars, revolutions and perestroikas are not 70 years of successful development.

[P]

Well why not? The USSR was created according to Marx and Lenin and according to the same theory it was broken. If you carefully begin to analyze the tax system, electoral law, and law enforcement practice of the Russian Federation, you will quickly understand that the drafters and executors use a class approach.

[S.Z.]

The USSR was created more spontaneously than according to some theory, and it was created on the basis of a pre-existing empire, not from scratch. The theory was created in parallel - just look at Lenin’s tossing thoughts.

They also broke the USSR spontaneously.

Even if the compilers use a class approach - and there is no other way for obvious reasons - then in any case they do not pursue the goal of building communism or socialism.

[P]

changes were in accordance with the changing situation, but class theory, materialism and dialectics did not disappear for a second. Neither in 1917-22 nor in 1982-1993

[Knell wardenheart]

Very good the big problem of the communists was focus on image and not on the result. You should always first of all aim at the result - an increase in welfare, industrial capacity, GDP, an increase in export revenues, etc. And within the framework of this, make certain adjustments so that success as a whole does not contradict socialism, so that within the framework of the concept being built, the state remains socially oriented. And based on success and free resources, already think about how to jump conceptually above this (through socialism to communism).
Instead, they are straight away. They also built in rather crude ways, for them the goal was precisely this construction, satisfying the lust of their own interests and not people or the overall state of the sponsored economy. And from this there was anger and distortions and other bad things.

Then, yes, they smoothed it out somewhat, but the dogma still remained and the main priorities were still to make it all look “pretty and canonical,” as if they were drawing new episodes of The Simpsons and not building a country for people and not competing on the world stage with the USA.

As a result, by the end of Gorby a kind of undercapitalism emerged that was losing markets. I believe that from some stage (probably after Stalin) it was necessary, first of all, to build a rich and competitive state, and secondly, to bother with the ideological component.

[S.Z.]

Don’t tell me, they constantly talked about increasing milk yield and centners per hectare, all the plans were specific - only from the stands they smeared the porridge on the plate so much that you no longer wanted to eat. And they lied a lot - on paper everything grew, but in the stores everything was empty. I would say that the country, like a collapsing company, became bureaucratized to the limit, the numbers became unrealistic, were not checked, and there was no motive to check, reports of uncompleted work were signed - a beautiful report, but there was no work...

The ideological component, by the way, was completely abandoned, especially since real life did not correspond to the screen one.


The main thing is that the standard of living should not have been allowed to fall as it did in the late 80s. I still don’t understand how this happened - in 1980 there was a completely prosperous country, there was a deficit, but not widespread, a wonderful Olympics - and a complete collapse 10 years later. Actually, there have been terrible everyday problems since about 1986-1987, since the beginning of the anti-alcohol campaign. Coincidence?

[Knell wardenheart]

Don’t tell me, they constantly talked about increasing milk yield and centners per hectare, all plans were specific

In terms of yield or milk yield (per unit area), we did not reach the US level. We could put pressure on quantitative indicators, but in specific ones we were inferior and significantly because in terms of technological capabilities and labor productivity we were inferior to capital countries.
The fact that it grew - well, yes, it grew! How not to admit it. But it never grew.
We were forced to try to get closer to analogues in various workarounds - we purchased foreign equipment, tried to copy, regulated by law, approaching the capitalist understanding of the issue. Because within the socialist framework we could no longer provide comparable growth from expansion - and expansion was already exhausted.

Including this and the postscripts you are talking about. They had a race and one of the ways to give out “on the mountain” was postscripts, among other things. Under capitalism, if you have a business, there is no point in attributing anything because everything that you sold in fact is your income.

The main thing is that the standard of living should not have been allowed to fall as it did in the late 80s. I still don't understand how this happened

Leftists believe that all this is the result of a “counter-revolutionary conspiracy,” and although I consider this possibility, I believe more that it was an analogue of resonance. A variety of progressive chaos had already existed in the USSR for a long time and at that time it simply “coincided in frequency” - due to Afghanistan, Chernobyl, Spitak, the economic recession after the peak of economic power in 1983, a new arms race, tension in the social bloc, growing backlogs in the advanced technologies and their implementation from the West (microelectronics, genetics, biochemistry).

The system was already struggling to cope with each of these events, and their totality unbalanced it beyond the limits of “elastic deformation”. plastic deformation (“Perestroika”) completely broke it.

[S.Z.]

Yes, we lagged behind in relative terms, but not as much as our standard of living lagged behind. In addition, the goals were clear - to catch up and overtake. By the way, our modern leader also set a goal to catch up, though not with the United States, but at least with Portugal, and it also didn’t work out.

I do not believe that the USSR collapsed as a result of collusion, conspiracy or the actions of a world government (the existence of which I do not believe), although I consider myself more of a supporter of leftist views than right-wingers. The USSR collapsed under the weight of its own “sins” - the inadequate situation of the political system, which was unable to rebuild the economy in new conditions. By the way, this reminds me of the current situation.

Generally speaking, socialism was an artificially created and maintained system, there was no experience in managing, a few wrong decisions, and the system collapsed.

[Knell wardenheart]

Well, our views are not so far apart.
And yes, the current situation also reminds me of the decline of the Brezhnev era. It’s not for nothing that this period was called “stagnation” - the stagnation of ideas, the economy, and the political system. I have written here several times that in our country, behind all the talk about the “importance of history,” it is not considered as a science - it is considered as an analogue of the “lives of the saints.” Like “ohhoho, that’s how it was, that’s tough.” Meanwhile, there are a lot of analogies and models.

[S.Z.]

There is less than one step from stability to stagnation.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

These are your theses about the inability to manage! In your opinion, to create a technology at a research institute, design a plant or installation at a design bureau or design institute, then build the plant itself and at the same time guess with the marketing and sale of products is this inability to manage? This is exactly what was all right in the USSR. Troubles were accumulating in other places.

[your1970]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

A variety of progressive chaos has long existed in the USSR

In Kushka in 1989 there were “Buran” snowmobiles in the store - no one needed them there - there was snow for 2 months - January, February, and then only until lunch. During the day it could be up to +20 in winter.
And to the north, where summer lasts for 3 months, people have been queuing for them for years.
But the plan required giving all republics the deficit equally....

[P]

everything is true, but there is one small “but”: most fatal decisions are caused by momentary responses to the threat of immediate destruction. The next iteration will have a completely different material and personnel base, with vast experience and ready-made recipes

[Alien From]

The party, as usual, is rotten from the top down. The top people got greedy and wanted corrupt love. Please. This pattern is not surprising.

[pettabyte]

Quote: Alien From

The party, as usual, is rotten from the top down.

There were more than a million in that party.
And how many conscripts took the oath?
How many were serving at that moment about conscription or profession.
How many police?

The fact is that almost everyone celebrated Judas in one way or another.

[Alien From]

For some, Seagulls and Volgas, for others, bicycles. Capital rules the world

[kalibr]

Quote: pettabyte

There were more than a million in that party.

18 million!

[pettabyte]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: pettabyte

There were more than a million in that party.

18 million!

HOW is this so?
This is a whole army, even if we assume that only half will support and 10% of that half would stand up for arms. Yes, even if it’s 5%, that’s great too.

[kalibr]

Quote: pettabyte

This is a whole army, even if we assume that only half will support and 10% of that half would stand up for arms. Yes, even if it’s 5%, that’s great too.

In response, I can only tell you how it was in my case. At that time he worked at the Department of History of the CPSU at the Polytechnic University. At that time there were such departments in all institutions of higher education. Events began... But they didn’t seem to concern us teachers in any way. No one gave any orders: to gather, to march, to defend their gains. And then the party organizer came and said - the entire CPSU has been dissolved, we no longer teach the history of the CPSU, we will give everyone six months leave to undergo retraining at the departments of other universities in the specialty "History of Russia." That's all! Everything was so routine that... it didn’t even occur to anyone to protect anything there. If there is such an order from above, why bother? We need to feed our family! And then we all knew that no one would be left without work. And principles, they are not barbecue, you can’t dine with them! So “wow” - yes, but that’s exactly what didn’t happen.

[Foul skeptic]

And principles, they are not barbecue, you can’t dine with them!

For some reason I immediately remembered.

[pettabyte]

Quote: kalibr

But they didn’t seem to concern us teachers in any way. No one gave any orders: to gather, to march, to defend their gains.

But!
How similar to modern times.
Perhaps this is a minus of too centralized power?
Everyone gets used to having a boss and is afraid (or unwilling) to take the initiative.
And when there is no boss (or local bosses expect the control center from the main one), then...

[P]

The CPSU was not the entire ruling party; it was ruled by a narrow layer of people, most of whom were members of the formal party

[pettabyte]

and how to counteract it

In order to counteract it, we first need a socialist counter-revolution, but in our case, firstly, it’s not that (they’ll crush it, the Northern Military District is in full swing, and in general), and secondly, they’ll punish you for calling, because this is a change of system.

If in 1991 there had been a civilian type, there probably wouldn’t have been so much blood, there was a chance to get support. Now everything at the trough has been strengthened, and about 40 years of propaganda have not gone in vain.
Now, perhaps, either “we’ll come to it ourselves (life will force us)”, or it’s unlikely.

[P]

you haven’t read the theory, oh, you haven’t)

[depressant]

Petrov!..
Titanic article! Print it out and hang it on the wall. Using buttons and threads to establish connections between individual positions. And reinforcing connections with photographs. This is how an analyst works to identify the beneficiary of a crime.
That's right, I saw everything with my own eyes. The sharp increase in nationalism and crimes based on it in the Union republics is not mentioned; it fits into the outline
In short -->

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

In short -->

But I didn’t write about how to counteract it. That means "semi-titanic"...

[depressant]

But I didn’t write about how to counteract it.

Vyacheslav Olegovich ...
There is an opinion that serious people in the upper echelons of power know how to return the social system, and they want to do it, because they know how to do it. Well, there, the nationalization of large industries, lustration of those who stole and quite significant repressions. In their opinion, this is the only way to keep the country in one piece. After all, under the Soviet regime, at the very least, it held on. Has the train left? Or can such words no longer be uttered? Like expressing doubts. And, mind you, the initiative is from above.
And for me, if there is nationalization, then why not start with housing and communal services? A more than profitable industry! But, believe it or not, most of our village housing and communal services office quit a week ago. The other day, one of our two boiler houses closed due to the dismissal of the entire list of employees, starting with the boss. Yesterday, having discovered dark horizontal stripes under the stairs in the hallway of the entrance, I realized that one of the two radiators heating the entrance had been removed. Yes, they said in the control room, which is still working, in all the entrances of all apartment buildings they removed the second battery - one boiler room is not working. And today for several hours there is no water at all - neither hot nor cold!
Did the rats run from the ship?
Or a disstabilization of the internal situation, such as the lack of sugar at the beginning of the SVO and a sharp rise in egg prices...
In general, they have eaten up the Soviet infrastructure, let’s say they will nationalize it, fix it, and then they will say, excuse me, it should be managed by an effective owner, and they will sell it to those who need it in the future. And that’s how it is in everything.
So, you are right, the analysis is titanic, there are zero proposals, because they are known and their results have just been shown by me.
It turns out that everywhere history moves in a spiral, but here in a vicious circle.
What's the recipe here?

[Foul skeptic]

There is an opinion that serious people in the upper echelons of power know how to return the social system, and want to do it, because they know how to do it.

Well, they amused me, they amused me so much, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.

[depressant]

.Well, they cheered me up, they cheered me up so much

Did you read my comment to the end?
Here you are - a vile skeptic. And I am an even more vile skeptic - I am a cynic. By definition, I don’t believe in the good intentions of those in the highest echelons of power.

[P]

serious people are so striving for our good that I don’t really know, the four raw materials export monopolies that own most of the functions of the state apparatus are so striving to make us all happy here that for some reason there are fewer and fewer citizens. Looks like they're sending you to heaven right on the streets, yeah

[your1970]

Quote: Pandemic

serious people are so striving for our good that I don’t really know, the four raw materials export monopolies that own most of the functions of the state apparatus are so striving to make us all happy here that for some reason there are fewer and fewer citizens. Looks like they're sending you to heaven right on the streets, yeah

I’ll surprise you - the Federal Customs Service gives 62% of the state budget, the Federal Tax Service gives only 18%.
Self-regulatory organizations, pensioners, doctors, science, military-industrial complex, etc. - this is all with money from these 4 companies

[DenVB]

Quote: your1970

I’ll surprise you - the Federal Customs Service gives 62% of the state budget, the Federal Tax Service gives only 18%.

Where do such strange numbers come from?

[your1970]

Quote: DenVB

Quote: your1970

I’ll surprise you - the Federal Customs Service gives 62% of the state budget, the Federal Tax Service gives only 18%.

Where do these come from? weird numbers?

from the state budget of previous years (until 2021) - the budget structure is like this in our Russian Federation..
Did you think that the entire budget is from the Federal Tax Service? ??

[DenVB]

Quote: your1970

Did you think that the entire budget from the Federal Tax Service was belayed??

We mainly thought about who provides the remaining 20 percent of the budget.

[your1970]

Quote: DenVB

Quote: your1970

Did you think that the entire budget from the Federal Tax Service was belayed??

We mainly thought about who provides the remaining 20 percent of the budget.

Duties and fees, fines, rent for state property, extra-budgetary revenues

[DenVB]

Quote: your1970

Duties and fees, fines, rent for state property, extra-budgetary revenues

It's clear. In general, it actually turns out something like this:

[your1970]

Quote: DenVB

Quote: your1970

Duties and fees, fines, rent for state property, extra-budgetary revenues

It's clear. In general, it actually turns out something like this:

I admit my guilt.
I was wrong - I looked as it turned out a long time ago.
I repent, I’m a sinner, I was wrong.

[kalibr]

However, I didn’t understand from the article: how to counteract it? Declared - write!

[S.Z.]

Well, that's about it.

1. Start Lenin.
2. Lenin will start a party.
3. Start a war.
4. Lose the war.
5. Wait for the revolution.
6. Lenin will take power.
7. Take care of Lenin, prepare many other Lenins in advance, with a large supply.

In my opinion, this should work, and all other plans are worse and more unrealistic, this one has been at least a little tested. But I still wouldn't take it...

[october]

This will be in the third part of the article

[kalibr]

Quote: October

This will be in the third part of the article

You are a brave man, Alexander Borisovich!

[Fangaro]

Quote: paul3390

It’s interesting - looking at everything that has happened over the past 50 years, are there still people who believe that Comrade Stalin organized the 37th solely out of personal bloodthirstiness and sadism?

Well intentioned ...
As in most cases it happens.
Either in 1937 or recently.
And there are no options. It is good to negotiate only when you are strong in everything. Otherwise it will be concessions.

[Knell wardenheart]

Leftists still cling to numbers and slogans like a crab, not realizing that they have lost in the image-sensitive field. Not everyone wanted to play in this endless revolution and politics, but from the point of view of the state, this should have been a natural desire of a person. This and many other dogmatic theses turned out to be fundamentally wrong.
The author writes that the USSR produced inventions and inventors - yes, it did. But the environment for the introduction of these inventions and their commercialization (even within the framework of state capitalism, which existed de facto) was never created - the cyclopean structure simply did not notice any fluff and didn't know how to listen to her. The same ever-memorable OGAS, essentially an industrially oriented Internet in concept, they simply did not understand “why is it needed?” The dense, decadent bourgeoisie understood, but the progressive sages from the CPSU did not. And so it was with many things - the expulsion of the commercial spirit and dogmatic distortions of the concepts of “benefit” played their role, and these stuffy commissions that decided to discuss or not discuss, recommend or not - they worked much less effectively than their counterparts in the “lost West”, or It’s just that there was an alternative to them (I went to another company and offered it there), but there was none in the USSR.

What is an “idea”, “invention”? This is essentially a raw material that needs to be refined and brought to reality. There were difficulties with this too.
And yes, in 1988, nask. I remember Japan moved us from second place economy in the world. Despite this very quarter of humanity's scientists and a bunch of inventions. They stupidly made it better and of higher quality, promoted it more actively, and it turned out cheaper. How can a less perfect system advance a more perfect one?

We must begin to understand the collapse (collapse) of the USSR without enthusiastic odes - more critically. The system had big problems, all its advantages have long been known and chewed over. With the problems and their roots, everything is much more interesting; it turns out that Gorby and Co. were just the tip of an iceberg that began to melt on all fronts.

[kalibr]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Leftists still cling to numbers and slogans like a crab, not realizing that they have lost in the image-sensitive field.

I will definitely tell you about this in the next article, well, the next one after the next one. But I will need this phrase of yours as an epigraph. Do not you mind?

[Knell wardenheart]

Vyacheslav Olegovich, how can you be against) Of course, use it!

[kalibr]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Of course, use !

"You said!" (c) Thank you! through the material (about PR) it will appear...

[depressant]

The dense, decadent bourgeoisie understood, but the progressive sages from the CPSU did not. And so it was with many things

Knell, search the Internet and be sure to watch the movie “Pirates of Silicon Valley.” It's about beginners Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. They also had problems, but both characters showed persistence and achieved their goal. Our misfortune was that the fierce spirit of young creativity and perseverance of our people was seriously undermined by the Second World War. We were then killed. Although it seemed not. The next generations were born of tired people. This was exploited by party and economic bigwigs who were very tireless in their pursuit of bourgeois happiness. These were not tired then and they are not tired now.

[Knell wardenheart]

You are right about Fatigue, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! This is a very good thesis, but I usually expand it beyond the boundaries of the Second World War - in principle, we have huge tiredness from all these experiments, soul-digging, slogans, crazy races and belly button tearing, political populism and demagoguery. The creative, active forces of society were wasted over a long period on an array of movements with a very sad and practically unprofitable ending.

There was a lot of noise and stress, and then it all ended in a chain of epic and not so epic failures.
This remains with us, hangs on our horizon like a large, toxic-colored sun and paralyzes grassroots organization and activity. The more screams and stupid commotion around this, the better it suppresses further.

What to do about it? I see the big mistake of the leftists here is that they again start singing these red-colored, savory and large-scale songs - if you are tired and overexcited, this will not stir you up, it will only make you angry. On the contrary, we need a very calm and extremely clear picture of activity for the short to medium term, not exciting anyone in vain, not shaking the air and with a very simple essence inside - "We need a country in which everyone can live comfortably and earn good money.".
Whether crawling, walking, running in places - but voluntarily and understandably, for those who want to get involved, everything should be extremely clear and, I would even say, dry. We have overexploited the excitatory patterns; they are no longer valid.

[depressant]

In principle, we are extremely tired of all these experiments, soul-digs, slogans, crazy races and navel-punching, political populism and demagoguery

Do you know what all this is for? And in order for the bulk of the population to be constantly immersed in cognitive dissonance, tearing impressions in the opposite direction - immersed and not realizing that we still live in the USSR, but only one that has been transformed for the needs and requirements of the old Soviet party -bureaucratic apparatus. But you just have to look at the faces of those who are in command positions, at the faces of their children in command positions, and everything will become clear, the opposing concepts formed by everyday multidirectional impressions will come to a point, and then the people will say, how can this be? Look, he's even angry. And so as not to get angry, I repeat, this is all they are doing to us. So that you don't get bored.
I calculated according to science that the USSR 2.0 coma will begin in 2028, and by 2030 death will occur. I can’t even imagine what will happen next.

[kalibr]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

We have overexploited the excitatory patterns; they are no longer valid.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

[kalibr]

Quote: depressant

The next generations were born of tired people. This was exploited by party and economic bigwigs who were very tireless in their pursuit of bourgeois happiness. These were not tired then and they are not tired now.

Clever you! And one more thing: it has been proven that when a bullet enters a person, it inflicts such a blow on him that it damages his genetic system. For about 1 year, if not treated and not eaten: lemons, tangerines, and especially red and black caviar. In this case, you can restore the body in six months. What happened? People came from the front (how many wounded did we have?), got to...no one thought about protection, and people went to “rivet” the children. And they turned out to be genetically weakened with defects. No, not downs, but less capable, susceptible to illnesses with weakened immunity, lack of abilities. And here it is 49, the beginning of nuclear testing, and radiation directly affects the development of abilities in children. They become dull adults with a low level of critical perception of reality. “Where they tell me to go.” Like Fonvizin... so we got an intellectually lost generation and not this one. Hence the rampant drinking in the 70-80s in the USSR.

[Knell wardenheart]

I think that genetics played a smaller role here than upbringing and the state of the environment. In terms of genetics, the most powerful blows were dealt earlier, when the Civil War, collectivization and the “Great Terror” brought down many capable and “fighting qualities” people.
The Second World War, of course, also influenced the selection because the greatest damage in groups fell on the most conscientious and ideological, and a healthy fund with good fertility was also damaged - both female and male.
But I see the problem of the “post-war generation” rather in their upbringing and environment - because many front-line soldiers lost their health at the front and received a crippled psyche (Shell shock, PTSD, which was not treated then, by the way), they had to work hard to restore the country without being completely restored by ourselves. Life then was poor and crowded, people had a lot of bad habits at the front - and the cult of violence, coercion and asceticism was widespread in society itself. Observing such a contrasting picture, the brood split according to the same contrasting type, into conditionally “cerebral Stalinists” and those who organically desired a different life and a different picture.
Well, this is how I see it - a struggle, so to speak - either you stand in solidarity, or you oppose. Considering that the opposition part of the brood was generally more creative, they more easily built business and other connections with each other, so we got post-Brezhnev elites who cannot be called “Stalinists” even if we wanted to. In fact, Brezhnev himself was close in spirit to these people, which contributed to their penetration into power.
The Stalinists were excellent crisis management, but during the Brezhnev era the need for crisis management fell and they were stupidly squeezed out of power in large numbers - they occupied lower levels, were disunited due to less creative thinking and did not solve anything.

Figuratively speaking, this was a repetition of the conflict between Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals in the political field

[kalibr]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Figuratively speaking, this was a repetition of the conflict between Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals in the political field

“Every word, Cicero rolled off his tongue!” (c)

[october]

Leftists still cling to numbers and slogans like a crab, not realizing that they have lost in the image-sensitive field

Marxists must be materialists

[Knell wardenheart]

That’s the point - a materialist must understand how things work around him objectively; you cannot imagine that you are kneading dough while working with metal. If things are objectively like this, if in current conditions people perceive much better with their “eyes,” one should not deny this property of them, but use it for one’s own purposes, as long as these are propaganda purposes.
Instead, the approach has degenerated into a “cult of spells” through which they are trying to shake up the average person, for some reason in their frozen ideas this is an almost unchanged every person since the time of the King of the Peas, and accordingly they are trying to use “on him” the same methods as and in those days. This problem of perceiving things was visible back in the days of the “middle USSR”, when in agitprop the bourgeoisie from the cartoons was still wearing a top hat, a monocle and white gloves, whereas by that time he had not been like that for 100500 years.
For the same reason, the USSR missed the onset and development of consumer society, even in that era speaking as if the Great Depression had just ended.

Father Lenin, so abundantly quoted by leftists, is often quoted extremely dogmatically and even headlessly. He bequeathed to them to “study, study and study again,” but for some reason they learn only from him and his followers, whereas they need to perceive reality and analyze the enemy’s approaches.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

Marxists must be materialists

But even good specialists should not repeat past mistakes!

[P]

It is necessary to work on mistakes, yes. But as for losing at the animal level, there is an opinion that the visual grinding of citizens in the world massacre that has already begun will certainly bring the “sensitive” to their senses. Well, or the citizens will be milled for profit

[Oleg Plenkin]

According to the scientific historian-researcher A.I. Fursov, up to 70% of large and medium-sized market-valuable property in Russian megacities and up to 80% in the regions today belongs to the Soviet party, economic and Komsomol nomenklatura and their “children”! What kind of petty bourgeoisness is the author writing about? Where did these large and partly medium-sized commercial nouveau riche owners come from, who over the course of 30 years formed the Russian financial and commercial oligarchy and the mafias near the government? They didn’t come to Earth from Mars, and not from Venus! NO, EVERYONE IN THE USSR MANAGED AND MANAGED the systems and structures of the planned distribution economy, ministries, departments, enterprises, and infrastructure organizations, law enforcement agencies, and intelligence services, all of them, after the launch of privatization mechanisms and the corporatization of Soviet state-owned property, became OWN it. AND THEY ROBBED THEIR OWN POPULATION, ALLOWED ALIEN PREDATORS FROM AROUND THE WORLD TO ROBE US, AND THEN WE WERE ALL “SENT TO RESIGN”! And those who “didn’t fit into the market” simply died or were killed! And if we add the number of unborn children, then this is already genocide of the Russian state-forming ethnic group!
Author, the bourgeois revolution was carried out by those who were obliged FIRST OF ALL to serve communist ideals! Those whom the Soviet population raised, fed, educated, protected during the terrible, total war against Hitler's Nazism, gave them a good university education and the opportunity to make a career! Who are they all after what they did to this very population and country! Cruel and cynical ki! AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE WHEN THE WORKING POPULATION, BECAUSE OF THEIR IGNORANCE, OR EXTREME NAIVETIVENESS, GIVES THE RIGHT TO CONTROL AND MANAGE THE ECONOMY, POLITICS, CULTURE, EDUCATION AND SCIENCE TO THE IMPRESSIVE, CLINY AND SELFISH PARASITE M!

P.S. Author, don’t look where it’s dark. Look where there is light!

[kalibr]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

THIS WILL ALWAYS BE WHEN THE WORKING POPULATION, DUE TO THEIR IGNORANCE, OR EXTREME NAIVET,

Orwell wrote about this very well in “1984” too! Almost in the same words...

[Oleg Plenkin]

Acceleration is a factor!
But... The reactor couldn’t stand it!(
And now our peaceful atom
All of Europe is obscene!

P.S. Yes, almost Orwellian(...

[depressant]

Author, don’t look where it’s dark. Look where there is light!

Oleg Anatolyevich!
I fully support your entire comment, I’m ready to subscribe to every word

[Oleg Plenkin]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna, in my 55 years, I have become accustomed to trusting only MY checks, my analyzes and my conclusions. Life has taught me. But, if someone else sees this life and situation the same way, then the “repeatability of the result” has the right to the future...
P.S. Thanks for your support. Touched).

[depressant]

repeatability of the result has a right for the future...

Oleg Anatolyevich, “repetition” is used! Next - to your first passionate comment about 80% of Soviet and within the limits of “repetition” of current officials who once fought for what they now quietly have:

"The state and former officials turned out to be the owners of almost half of the largest egg factories
Five of the twelve largest egg producers in Russia are managed by government agencies, as well as current or former officials.
▪️The leader of the list, Sinyavinskaya Poultry Farm JSC, is 94,5% owned by Sberbank. The bank became the owner of the factory in 2017.
▪️Volzhanin OJSC, one of the top three leaders, has been headed since 1996 by Lyudmila Kosteva, a member of the regional political council of United Russia in the Yaroslavl region. By 2015, she became not only the general director, but also the owner of the enterprise: by 2015, Kosteva bought up 100% of its capital.
▪️JSC "Poultry farm "Sverdlovskaya"" belongs directly to the state.
▪️The Komos Group agricultural holding, which in addition to eggs produces dairy products and pork, is owned in equal shares by Andrey Shutov and Andrey Oskolkov, former deputies of the State Council of Udmurtia from United Russia. Oskolkov was the deputy chairman of the government of the republic in the early 2000s.
▪️The head of the Seymovskaya poultry farm, Leonid Sedov, worked as the Minister of Agriculture of the Nizhny Novgorod Region for four years in the 2000s. Now he controls more than 90% of the company's shares.
Egg prices soared by 2023% in 61,4 and continued to rise in the new year."

As they say, the experience of creating a shortage gained in the 80s cannot be wasted! So much for repeatability...
Read the comment below from colleague tank64rus.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Yes, this is a manifestation of that “private”, which, in “general”, I call the regime of domination of private property by the Russian financial and commercial oligarchy. That is, to put it simply, either you build “squirrel cages” for others, or you build them yourself! Squirrel cage economics. And the country itself, from a large tractor under the “USSR” brand, turned into a huge “squirrel cage” made from one of its wheels, and placed, by Western financial corporations, on the “supports” of the dollar global economy, which spun for 30 years in one place, earning huge fortunes for the West, and capital for our nouveau riche, and NOT GOING ANYWHERE ON THE ROAD OF HISTORY! And we, simple, ordinary people, spin THEIR large and medium-sized “squirrel cages”, inside this huge wheel, until our eyes go dark, and have no prospects, no market-profitable property, and therefore no influence on the economy and politics from the country. That is, we live “one day at a time.” But now, this huge “squirrel cage”, having entered into a war with the West, for the right from a peripheral and colonial financial oligarchy to become a regional oligarchy, is falling from these dollar supports, and in order not to collapse, after the fall, burying us all under its rubble, and In order to achieve centripetal acceleration, the ruling regime must solve numerous, very complex problems of industrial, scientific, technological, social and cultural development, which cannot be solved without the large Russian petty-bourgeois educated and skilled population. But we already have our own political and economic interests, our own “image of the future”, without taking into account which we will not become for this regime either an engine, or a gearbox, or a system of gyroscopes, or counterweight mechanisms that allow this huge wheel to continue to roll along the road Stories.
Yes, now THEY want to launch processes of “nationalization” of property, but this will be “nationalization” of property in the interests of the capitalist state, where the most important oligarch will be this state in THEIR person. And we will continue to twist THEIR “squirrel cages”, fight for THEIR property, for THEIR assets, for THEIR capital, for THEIR economic and political dominance.
I “sink” for us to build our own collective “squirrel cages” of small and medium-sized cooperatives and corporations, to spin them ourselves, to build horizontal and vertical connections of subjective “public power” ourselves, in a direction that is advantageous for the bulk of the producing population scientific and industrial development, striving for the ideal of the Public Good. Is this a revolution? Yes, this is a revolution, but not a socialist one, but a social one. How to create legal conditions for the formation of a new quality of advanced social-production relations, corresponding to a new level of development of productive forces, in the conditions of an information technology economy.

P.S. The general is higher than the specific. No.
Is the particular higher than the general? Also no.
What then?! PRIVATE AS PART OF THE GENERAL!

P.P.S. And the tractor will no longer be there. So it was dismantled a long time ago, sold and resold to the West and the East.

[S.Z.]

"P.S. Author, don’t look where it’s dark. Look where it’s light!”

In fact, you need to look where you lost it, regardless of the lighting...

[Oleg Plenkin]

Yes, I agree. Only it was not we who lost, but “lost” us(. Therefore, only we ourselves can search for ourselves. Since the regime needs it not as a political economic subject, but as hired personnel who run THEIR “squirrel cages.” No more.

[S.Z.]

It is true that the regime needs us only for this. But could it be different?

[Oleg Plenkin]

Differently? Well, as in the joke, we have only “two paths”! Either we spin other people’s “squirrel cages”, or we build and spin our own). We establish horizontal connections and cooperation between enterprises and infrastructure organizations that are collective private property, that is, public petty-bourgeois corporations, we participate in district, city and regional self-government, we fight for representative power, for the right to develop, formulate and implement development budgets and tax policy in in the interests of the bulk of the petty-bourgeois producing population, we create parallel structures of national-social control. In general, we form from our midst a POLITICAL producing petty-bourgeois middle class of collective owners. Otherwise, we are spinning “other people’s squirrel cages” until we die, with absolutely no prospects of influencing the economy and politics, without owning market-profitable property. That is, we degenerate(.

P.S. Whose property is the only power.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Some fact in History is ALWAYS the result of a biological, class, caste or class struggle for existence. And God, Nature or the Cosmic Mind of the Universe don’t care who wins!) Since “their task” is to ensure the survival of humanity as a biological species. This means that NOTHING WILL HAPPEN FOREVER.

[S.Z.]

“And to God, Nature or the Cosmic Mind of the Universe, it doesn’t matter who wins!) Since “their task” is to ensure the survival of humanity as a biological species”

Brave claim. What if there is no such task? If the task is simpler - well, for example, to ensure the development of the mind - in the concept of these superpowers - without a relative carrier. Well, let's say, they are bored there alone, there is no one to talk to... Well, that's it, a distraction - I mean that the goals can be different. Or they may even not exist at all - they stirred up the mess and let’s see what happens.

[Oleg Plenkin]

I will be subjective, but just look at the History of mankind. Cities, civilizations, treasures of many cultures, everything went to hell! If societies and states, as the product of human creativity, accumulated knowledge and centuries-old wisdom, could not or did not want to constantly develop and defend themselves, and if necessary, then fight for their interests. “Aliens” always came, more aggressive, more cunning and strong, who were not interested in the depths of intelligence and the heights of the philosophy of the victim). That is, what history shows is that the winner is always right, and the land is inherited by the right of the strong. And this race “in a circle and in a spiral”, this “great game” is permanent as long as homo sapiens exist). Well, in general, humanity has always developed through conflicts, conquests, wars, that is, through the mechanisms and tools laid down by the Creator, whoever he is.
P.S. We are what we do.

[S.Z.]

The fact of the matter is that first people stop considering the environment as “theirs”, and then they stop protecting it. A beautiful temple, but if I don’t believe in its gods, then I prefer a small church with a God in whom I believe. A beautiful, huge country, but its ruler is far away, he does not take my interests into account - let them come and take his palace.

What the Creator was up to there is unknown, the paths are inscrutable.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Ordinary people, that is, ordinary people, generally try to weed out what is incomprehensible to them, unnecessary, what simply prevents them from living in their world. But in the end - what? If you are not involved in politics, then it will deal with you; if you do not want to feed your army, then you will feed another; if you narrow your living space to the size of a palisade of a house or apartment, then millions of strangers come to you, confirming the “laws of the Universe”) .

[S.Z.]

Often, to the common man, everyone except his immediate circle is a stranger, and he agrees to feed the army that is cheaper.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Yes, if he is not involved in any social production relations, if he does not participate in a collective business, cooperatives, or is not a co-owner or at least a junior partner in someone else’s business. Then, when nothing depends on him, he begins to live in the most “independent” country and “shrinks” to the size of his private house or apartment. Consequences? You see them yourself.

[S.Z.]

There are 90% of us and this figure will not decrease.

True, I do not believe that property motivates a person to protect something more than his property. The owner of the plant will make a deal with the enemy if he has the opportunity to save his plant from bombing. Your plant is more important than the common country.

It is not property that makes a person a patriot. And not its absence.

[Oleg Plenkin]

1. Patriotism, during the reign of private property, is the last refuge of scoundrels. And all “patriotic” wars at this time are wars in which some poor people kill other poor people, but for the interests of the rich, for THEIR property, for THEIR capital, for THEIR assets, for THEIR economic and political dominance.
2. Yes, absolute private commercial property does not and will not make anyone a patriot. These "people" are "citizens of the world" by definition. Or rootless cosmopolitans, according to I. Stalin’s point of view. So we are not talking about it, but about collective, joint, that is, social, private production, engineering and infrastructure property. Where educated and qualified specialists, developing the division of labor, interacting with each other, interdependent on each other, through joint work and joint creativity, earn money not for the “bald uncle”, but for their loved ones). Although even if you are the sole owner of the means of production and are engaged not in financial usury and trade speculation, but in knowledge-intensive and high-tech production, then you are very dependent on the social culture of the population working FOR YOU, on the level and quality of their education and qualifications, on the state of that anthropogenic environment, including the housing and communal services environment in which it lives.
And different forms of property are different ways of socialization and development of matter, but, in the case I am considering, they are not primary, but the legal relations of various forms of property and the state. In my opinion there are only three of them, these are:
-nationalization or petty-bourgeois socialization of property;
-nationalization of property;
-privatization of property.
In fact, these paths of development and transformation of matter are a political-economic “perpetual motion machine” of social and state development, but also a source of contradictions, wars and revolutions. The choice is yours).

[S.Z.]

... and then material wealth will flow as if from a horn of plenty. I choose peace.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Comrade captain, I would also choose peace). Since I am a Soviet person. But THEY won’t let us live peacefully, because ONLY THEY ARE PIRATES, AND WE ARE THE PREY (. And try to dissuade them)...

[S.Z.]

In the modern world, whether you are a pirate or a prey depends solely on how strong you are, besides, pirates for some are prey for others. Be strong and smart and you will be a pirate to many and prey to some.
Although, probably, first smart...

[DenVB]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

NO, EVERYONE IN THE USSR MANAGED AND MANAGED the systems and structures of the planned distribution economy, ministries, departments, enterprises, and infrastructure organizations, law enforcement agencies, and intelligence services, all of them, after the launch of privatization mechanisms and the corporatization of Soviet state-owned property, became OWN it.

Excuse me, how fat a finger do you have to have to draw such fantastic conclusions from it...

[Oleg Plenkin]

Is it a fat finger?) I think that this is not a finger, but a “bitter crust” of the experience of communicating with the Komsomol nomenklatura in the late 80s. I didn’t communicate with the party and economic nomenklatura, but sometimes I came across their “children” (. Even then there was a gulf between ordinary, simple guys and them. As for “fantastic” conclusions, I am writing about what I saw myself, somewhere with 1985, when I went to work and what I heard from people I trust. But if, in your opinion, everything was wrong, and they really flew from Mars or Venus, then my “fat” finger, of course, cannot be compared with yours ).

[DenVB]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

But if, in your opinion, everything was wrong, and they really came from Mars or Venus, then my “fat” finger, of course, cannot be compared with yours).

You continue to demonstrate the same defect in logical thinking as in the first message.

100 percent of rapes are committed by men. Does this mean that all men commit rape?

Think about it.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Were there any decent people among them? Personally, I did not see anyone, either on the barricades, with weapons at their advantage, leading the Soviet population ahead into battle “for your and our freedom,” or in the partisan detachments “in the forests of the Bryansk region”). And I didn’t see any barricades. Except for bloody October 1993. But they were not there either. Everyone settled down quite well in “market” conditions. Again, personal experience of communicating with the Komsomol nomenklatura, but already in the late 90s. My “defect” of thinking, I repeat once again, is based on personal experience and stories from people I trust. Yes, I am subjective, but I have the right to be so. But the logic may be different).

P.S. We are what we do.

[DenVB]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

Personally, I did not see anyone, either on the barricades, with weapons at their advantage, leading the Soviet population ahead into battle “for your and our freedom,” or in the partisan detachments “in the forests of the Bryansk region”).

Another masterpiece of logic. Everyone who did not go to the barricades with weapons at the ready later took possession of state property and settled well in market conditions.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Well, then share the “masterpieces” of YOUR logic and tell us about your experience of communicating with them. I read you with interest. Maybe, at 55, I’ll start believing in fairy tales again).

[DenVB]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

Well, then share the “masterpieces” of YOUR logic and tell us about your experience of communicating with them.

My logic is simple - many of those people whom you accuse of getting rich from market reforms are not particularly guilty of anything, and they took the blow of the reforms in the same way as the rest of the population. If they are guilty of anything, it is passivity. But this is a common problem, then and now.

My personal experience is limited, I didn’t communicate with the nomenklatura when I was young, but I knew, for example, a “thieves” family (the wife there was a trade worker), whose house was full of “shortages” in Soviet times, and in the nineties they were already subsisting on bread to the water. Although the example is small, here it is.

[Oleg Plenkin]

In any system of power created by people, there is its own structure, in which people are divided into approximately two types of specialists: technical specialists who “hold” this structure on their shoulders and specialists who make “political” decisions. That is, these are the first managers, their deputies, heads of departments, which are now called departments. Your case of communication experience is simply a “classic of the genre” in THEIR “food chain”, since ordinary, technical specialists either “waver” along with the party line, or, if they turn out to be insufficiently agile and unscrupulous, fall out of the “clip”. Like, for example, my relative fell out. And there were many of these in the 90s. In general, I was lucky, I survived in the 90s, but my two friends did not (... As for the information from the top, due to life circumstances, I was forced to leave for Moscow in 94 with my wife. And live and work there until October 2014. In Moscow, for many years and quite closely, I talked with a person who worked in the first innovation council created by the last Prime Minister of the USSR Ryzhkov, in my opinion, in 1990. I talked with Colonel special forces of the GRU of the General Staff of the USSR. The life of our family in Moscow and the region was difficult, but it “helped” me with acquaintances and many years of communication with interesting people). Therefore, today, I already trust only my checks, my analyzes, my conclusions and my logic. Life has taught me.

[DenVB]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

Therefore, today, I already trust only my checks, my analyzes, my conclusions and my logic. Life has taught me.

At first glance it seems commendable. But after thinking a little, you realize that this doesn’t work. I've never been to Australia or met any Australians. But I have no doubt that Australia exists. I just trust people, books, maps. Perhaps in vain, of course. I also believe in the theory of relativity, although I haven’t tested it myself.

[Oleg Plenkin]

Well, yes. And physics, as a segment of philosophy, does not explain anything, but only describes processes...
Good luck).

[your1970]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

According to the scientific historian-researcher A.I. Fursov, up to 70% of large and medium-sized market-valuable property in Russian megacities and up to 80% in the regions today belongs to the Soviet party, economic and Komsomol nomenklatura and their “children”!

Did this researcher request extracts from Rosreestr and check the party nomenclature by name?
Won ...
And yes, tell him in confidence that the nomenklatura at the beginning of 1990 was aged FROM 60 years old. Now the maximum is their children.
And even that is highly doubtful

[Oleg Plenkin]

Your information is inaccurate, except for the specialists who make “political decisions” in the CPSU at the age of 60 years and older, there were a LOT of 50 and 40 year old young people there, among the “technical” specialists). There were only instructors in the district and city party committees there were the “royal army”. And, by the way, if this is a matter of principle for you, conduct applied research YOURSELF, work in the archives, if you are allowed there). Study the history of how and where they invested the first currency received by the country from the sale of oil and gas since the late 60s, what paths “Ho Chi Minh City” and “Chongdu Hwan” were, they opened firms and joint ventures in Europe and America, who they were “supervised” by how and by whom the property and property of the CPSU and the Komsomol were privatized in the early 90s... How the ki of the Komsomol nomenklatura, NTTM centers and youth cooperatives, with a deft movement of the hands, were transformed into commercial banks and private businesses. I think that if there is a different government in Russia, then investigations of this kind will be serious work for the national intelligence services for many decades! Why? Because I remember well the statement of Aldridge Ames, the Soviet “spy” who headed the “Russian” department in the CIA. He said that in the 80s, he was amazed at the number of spies infiltrated into the party and state bodies of the USSR, and if we add here the agents of influence who, after the privatization of Soviet state property, began to own it, then the picture will turn out to be VERY interesting.. .
Therefore, if you are not interested in some events, this does not mean that they did not happen.

[your1970]

Quote: Oleg Plenkin

there were a LOT of 50 and 40 year old young people there, among the “technical” specialists). There were only instructors in the district and city party committees there were the “royal army”

Then don't write about " Nomenclature“- 40-50 year old workers of all kinds of “-coms” - were not included in it.
And I repeat, this character was physically unable to check who owned something now, much less draw general conclusions.
Moreover - in 1990, bandits divided property no less energetically. And killing anyone was a matter of 5 minutes. Active cops were killed - not like former party scoundrels.
And you also forgot about the frantic inflation and reform that devoured all the nest eggs of the late 1980s.
The fact that THEY dragged it is a fact; the fact that it is not the nomenklatura who is the owner of everything is now also a fact

[Oleg Plenkin]

I will decide WHAT to write and WHAT not to write. But I don’t need your advice and, especially, your instructions. And, judging by your comments, you simply do not know not only who was and who was not the “nomenklatura”, but also the processes that took place then. I repeat once again, if you are not interested in or do not know about some processes or events, this does not mean that they did not happen.
Study the "materiel parts". Good luck.

[P]

They were supposed to serve not ideals, but the objective interests of the working people. But the working people let go of real power in the form of councils, disarmed, and over time got results out of the window. I consider the advantage of the current situation to be the overconcentration of resources with the complete separation of beneficiaries from beneficial management and the creation of any benefits, so that treating the disease with surgical methods will not cause any harm to the economy

[APASUS]

The very message of perestroika and restoration of capitalism needs to be considered on two levels.
1 The task of Gorbachev and Yeltsin was the collapse of the state and the main task was the collapse of the economy. At the initial stage it was necessary to fight with outright traitors. There was no normal head of the KGB then
2 China went the same way and passed without destroying its statehood. The traitors chose the most disastrous option for the country

[october]

1 The task of Gorbachev and Yeltsin was the collapse of the state and the main task was the collapse of the economy.

Gorbachev and Yeltsin are not masochists; they restored capitalism so that they could personally live well. The collapse of the state as such was not of interest to them. This is just a milestone on their path.

[P]

By 1980 it was too late to fight. The Soviets, if they were real power, could recall the disgruntled general secretary, judge him and hang him on the gate. But the councils disarmed, the councils began to be formed from random people on a territorial basis and choose as representatives who knows who is not from their midst.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Events that took place in our country in 1985–1993. radically changed our lives, changed the balance of power in the world. In our country, the internal situation in which seemed absolutely stable, instead of the CPSU, “builders of capitalism” who came from nowhere appeared in power.

The key words are “a state that seemed absolutely stable.”
In fact, Gorbachev led a state that was already in the process of collapse, for both political and economic reasons. That is why he started “Perestroika,” which he was not allowed to implement. First of all, the Ukrainian mafia, read (Bandera underground), which actually came to power already at that time. They perfectly understood the positive consequences of progressive economic reforms and forced the collapse of the USSR. Otherwise, We could live in a prosperous state, see the example of China. The USSR, unlike China, had more solid starting positions. The country did not have enough small businesses to meet the needs of citizens. The variety of cafes, restaurants, shops, and services simply suggested itself. This is precisely what those who led the country to collapse feared.

[october]

You have a lot of statements, but where are the links to documents and facts confirming them?

[kalibr]

Quote: October

links to documents

So you don’t have them either. There are links to books. But... very often they are written through the prisms of their perception. Should I not know this? This is an objective phenomenon. So it would be nice to look at the documents. At what level can you look into them? For example, to get into the current archive of the regional governor you need... to write a dissertation on a regional topic. Usually they are written locally in three areas. What about the center? I do not know this. I don’t know how to get into the former archive of the CPSU Central Committee. I can only go to the regional archives of the OK CPSU. But today I’m not interested in this... Where can you go?

[october]

In fact, the books I refer to (at least I tried) are either science (for example, Economic Dynamics, etc.), or reference books (Ioffe), or memoirs of eyewitnesses (which is also a source under additional conditions), or the laws of the country. Information in such sources has a value higher than just rumors.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

In fact, the books I refer to (at least I tried) are either science (for example, Economic Dynamics, etc.), or reference books (Ioffe), or memoirs of eyewitnesses (which is also a source under additional conditions), or the laws of the country. Information in such sources has a value higher than just rumors.

This is all good, of course. But you mentioned “documents” first. You can’t demand from others what you don’t use yourself, right? Since you don’t use them, then... you shouldn’t have used this word. And then you did not answer my main question: what archives are available to you. I didn't write anything about rumors.

[october]

I'm a techie, archives are inaccessible to me.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

I'm a techie, archives are inaccessible to me.

Then what kind of garden vegetable are you climbing into where... you don’t know either... I’m also a historian with the letter G... And for the future: when you again climb to write overdue platitudes on VO, first ask here on VO who and what I wrote you on a similar topic. There will be no need to open the bike and make people laugh. He decided to study history lessons. And all the lessons are in the ARCHIVES. These are the basics of historical research and science. Textbooks are not like that. This is pure propaganda for average minds.

[october]

Please refrain from lecturing. Of course, not everything has been published, but I think it’s enough to draw conclusions, which is what I’m doing.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

Please refrain from lecturing.

Don't write like that! When you work in at least one archive of the Republic of Kazakhstan CPSU, then you will have the right to argue with me and prove something to me.

Quote: October

I think it’s enough to draw conclusions, which is what I’m doing.

Blink-blink, this is conceit. And I also have some... here they write “isn’t the halo too tight.” Yes, I’m just an innocent virgin, compared to such pride! He plans to solve the most serious questions by reading textbooks and reference books. It's not even funny. OK. Have you read any doctoral or master's dissertation on a similar topic?

[october]

Have you ever heard of such a subject as source studies?

[kalibr]

Quote: October

Have you ever heard of such a subject as source studies?

I even taught it at the university. But you, my dear, did you teach at a university and which one exactly? And besides, I asked what candidate’s and doctoral dissertations you used to work on your “project”. Where's the answer?

[october]

I defended my dissertation on information and measurement systems. He did not become a teacher.
I did not consider it necessary to use for my project dissertations in which one cannot defend oneself without praising the “free market.”

[kalibr]

Quote: October

I did not consider it necessary to use for my project dissertations in which one cannot defend oneself without praising the “free market.”

Stupid! Because they contain links to archives and documents. And then - you need to know your enemies by sight, and not show them your bare ass. But you even made me happy. I have made a selection of your most odious quotes and based on them I will write an excellent article based on my memories. And my memory is very good, professional, one might say, memory...

[october]

I had enough information for the problem I was solving. And I'm sure that I solved it correctly.
I can imagine you quoting without context.

[october]

By the way, why did you decide that the article is historical and must necessarily include links to the archive?
I will attribute it to Marxist sociology. You can search for articles on sociology and see that most of them do not contain links to the archive.
Won't you apologize for everything you said?

[kalibr]

Quote: October

I will attribute it to Marxist sociology.

Marxist sociology did not exist in the USSR and does not exist today. In the USSR there was scientific communism, for your information. But even at that time there was no specialty more despised than this. We always laughed: scientific communists catch a black cat in a black room, and they know that it is not there. Our master's theses consisted of three chapters, and these smart guys had two. In the first, some Leninist thesis was given, and in the second, a SOCIOLOGICAL RESEARCH confirming it. If you want to lose all the remnants of my respect, then yes... sign up to be a Marxist sociologist and scientific communist. What about apologizing? To me? Yes, you are clearly crazy. In our VO, swearing is prohibited, otherwise I would have written something else. You know, I grew up in a working-class area, on Proletarskaya Street, with all the consequences... But I’m pleased that you’ve been at your combat post since 5.10 and are thinking about how best to answer me! But you shouldn’t forget about healthy sleep. Yesterday you went to bed late, today you got up early. Take care of your health!

[october]

Well, yes, what am I talking about, what an apology.
I don’t need your respect, I lived well without it and will continue to live.

Marxist sociology did not exist in the USSR and does not exist today. There was scientific communism in the USSR...

Yes, I know. I simply reformulated scientific communism in a more modern manner.
As for contempt, I think you are talking about yourself. As for my attitude towards this discipline, I simply believed that I would never need it in practice, and that’s all.
Don't worry about my health, everything is fine.
I think we all told each other what we wanted, let's finish.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: October

You have a lot of statements, but where are the links to documents and facts confirming them?

Once, when I was a child, my father's aunt visited us. Aunt Polina was an active participant in the revolutionary movement; in her old age she wrote books and worked in various archives, including in Moscow. While staying in our city, we went into a store where she saw eggs on the counter, which shocked her. She literally stated: “You sell eggs freely, but here in Pskov you can’t buy either eggs or meat in stores.”
This is how revolutionary ideals and simple human needs collapsed.

[october]

I don’t remember that we had problems with eggs in the USSR, sorry. Some hooligans threw them from the balcony at passers-by.

[october]

And yes, you can look at the statistics of egg consumption in the USSR per capita in the reference book [Ioffe Y.A. We and the planet: Figures and facts. 7th edition, expanded. - M.: Politizdat. 1988]. p.205
268 eggs per year on average per person in 1986 This is more than in Japan (267), France, USA (247), etc. Although less than in Czechoslovakia (338), Hungary, and the GDR.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: October

I don’t remember that we had problems with eggs in the USSR, sorry. Some hooligans threw them from the balcony at passers-by.

The fact of the matter is that in some places they threw themselves at passers-by, and in others there were empty counters, but the defense industry was working at full capacity. Only people could not buy the most necessary things. Check the data on Pskov for the years 70 - 80. You can discover a lot of interesting things. Today they have covered St. Petersburg and beyond with a retail network of their branded stores and offer a huge selection of meat and dairy products and more. And during the times of the USSR, they literally starved, expecting unrealistic promises from Ukraine regarding the state order for food supplies, and not only they lived in starvation, but most regions of Russia. After all, the statistics are given per capita of the entire USSR, but nothing is said in the statistical reports about the categories of supply for individual territories of the USSR. Only people can say and perhaps local newspapers and then indirectly.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

And during the USSR they literally starved

No one in the late USSR went hungry, don’t write nonsense.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

No one in the late USSR went hungry, don’t write nonsense.

How else can you call Vladimir, Yaroslavl, Tula sausage trains? Train conductors carried meat, sausage and other food from Moscow and St. Petersburg to the Urals and Orenburg region, because they belonged to the first category of supply, like all of Ukraine, the Baltic countries, Georgia, Moldova, etc., including the North and Far East of Russia. Today they are waging a war not for freedom, but for this very first category of supply, in any case and preferably for free, but they don’t care that the Germans’ economy is down because of this, they are used to it.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

How else can you call Vladimir, Yaroslavl, Tula sausage trains?

Certainly. Without sausage, people usually die of hunger.

And now the trains to Moscow run empty. Nobody from Moscow needs anything; the whole country is already living well.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

Certainly. Without sausage, people usually die of hunger.

And now the trains to Moscow run empty. Nobody from Moscow needs anything; the whole country is already living well.

I don’t know where you lived in the 80s, but today, indeed, Orenburg region, Samara, Pskov, Yaroslavl, Vladimir, etc. they live much better than during the late USSR. If part of the Orenburg region voted to join Bashkiria because of empty shelves in stores, what is this called? This is not an isolated case from where the Russians were subsequently forced to leave, literally flee.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

I don’t know where you lived in the 80s, but today, indeed, Orenburg region, Samara, Pskov, Yaroslavl, Vladimir, etc. they live much better than during the late USSR.

You said that in the USSR someone was starving. Now gently move the conversation in a different direction. Just because someone lives better now than they did then, it does not follow that they were starving then. Nowadays, by the way, many people also do not gorge themselves on delicacies. The stores are full, but not everyone has great money.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

You said that in the USSR someone was starving. Now gently move the conversation in a different direction.

I'm just strictly on topic. When people have honestly earned money in their hands, which they cannot spend on what is necessary, discontent arises, or a revolutionary situation is formed.

Quote: DenVB

Nowadays, by the way, many people also do not gorge themselves on delicacies. The stores are full, but not everyone has great money.

When there is not enough money and stores are full, deflation develops - this is much better than inflation, in a healthy, controlled manner. There is always little money - an axiom. The main thing is that there are enough of them.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

I'm just strictly on topic.

No. You wrote “And during the USSR, they literally starved.” I told you that this is not true. Now turn the conversation to the fact that people could not spend what they honestly earned. This is completely different. Although that's also not true.

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

When there is not enough money and stores are full, deflation develops

Today is not the first of April.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

I told you that this is not true.

This is true. The USSR was not able to provide a complete supply of food in many cities. Based on this, it would be correct to say that the people who lived in these cities could not get adequate nutrition and, accordingly, were malnourished. Of course, no one died of hunger; they compensated with canned food, cereals, and vegetables, but malnutrition was present. Poor nutrition is tantamount to hunger, not total, not fatal, but there is no other way to call it. There was a serious shortage of fresh, non-frozen meat, fish, fruits, and herbs. You can't hide from this. As a result, in winter the population developed serious forms of vitamin deficiency.

Quote: DenVB

Now turn the conversation to the fact that people could not spend what they honestly earned. This is completely different. Although that's also not true.

What's wrong? The fact that you had to stand in line for years for a car, a motorcycle, decent furniture, clothes for a wedding using coupons and in a special store, an apartment in line, you had to catch household appliances when they were delivered, you had to go to Moscow for a guitar, etc.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

The USSR was not able to provide a complete supply of food in many cities. Based on this, it would be correct to say that the people who lived in these cities could not get adequate nutrition and, accordingly, were malnourished. Of course, no one died of hunger; they compensated with canned food, cereals, and vegetables, but malnutrition was present.

You are getting out of this very ridiculously. Even if you only have bread, milk and eggs, there can no longer be any “malnutrition”. Yes, everyone wants variety, but lack of variety does not mean starvation or malnutrition. A hungry person will eat scrambled eggs and bread without being picky.

So you can also blurt out that people walked around naked and froze, because there weren’t enough Montana jeans for everyone.

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

As a result, in winter the population developed serious forms of vitamin deficiency.

Not vitamin deficiency, but hypovitaminosis. And it is still developing in many people. Because not everyone can afford “fresh meat, fruits, herbs” in winter. But under capitalism, these are no longer economic problems, these are personal problems of individual losers, right?

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

The fact that you had to stand in line for years for a car or a motorcycle

And almost all of this could be bought “from hand” at any time, i.e. on the black market. True, we would have to overpay twenty to thirty percent above the state price. That is, approximately the same amount as we currently overpay to various dealers, dealers, wholesalers, and distributors.

But then it was “why on earth should I overpay, the state is obliged to supply me with goods,” and now it’s “that’s how the market decided, if you don’t like it, don’t take it.”

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

You are getting out of this very ridiculously. Even if you only have bread, milk and eggs, there can no longer be any “malnutrition”.

You see, not everyone can eat a lot of bread; problems develop with the immune system, memory impairment, impaired brain activity,
eczema, arthritis and allergies. So you can “eat” bread and eggs, but you can’t live fully on it, it’s even harmful. Maybe that's why there was a high level of alcoholism in the USSR?

Quote: DenVB

So you can also blurt out that people walked around naked and froze, because there weren’t enough Montana jeans for everyone.

The diversity of clothing in the USSR is truly a sore subject. Jeans, not jeans, but due to the lack of small business, people bought jeans from under the counter. Madhouse, and that's all. It would seem that if people were allowed to sew, bake, trade, and the USSR would prosper, but is it really possible to breed kulaks and speculators? This is how they screwed up a great country for jeans and Snickers. So you are right somewhere.

Quote: DenVB

Not vitamin deficiency, but hypovitaminosis. And it is still developing in many people. Because not everyone can afford “fresh meat, fruits, herbs” in winter. But under capitalism, these are no longer economic problems, these are personal problems of individual losers, right?

The key word here is “this is no longer a problem.”

Quote: DenVB

And almost all of this could be bought “from hand” at any time, i.e. on the black market.

It was because of this that the USSR collapsed, because everything could be bought, but on the “black market”.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

You see, not everyone can eat a lot of bread; problems with the immune system, memory impairment, impaired brain activity, eczema, arthritis and allergies develop. So you can “eat” bread and eggs, but you can’t live fully on it, it’s even harmful.

Funny.

Consumption of bread products in the Russian Federation in 2018–2020. was at the level of 116 kg per person per year, which is 20 kg, or 21%, higher than the recommended norm. Among the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, only three consumption of bread products in 2020 met the recommendations: in the Pskov and Yaroslavl regions, as well as in the city of Sevastopol (Table 1). In another five regions, consumption was below recommended levels. The lowest figures are in the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug (64 kg per person per year), the Murmansk region (82 kg) and in St. Petersburg (86 kg).

In other regions of Russia, the consumption of bread products exceeds the recommended standards established by the Russian Ministry of Health. The highest consumption was recorded in the Tambov region (154 kg/person per year, an excess of 60%), Altai Territory (149 kg/person per year, an excess of 55% over the rational norm), Lipetsk region (145 kg/person. per year, an excess of 51%) and the Kursk region (142 kg/person per year, an excess of 48%).

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

The key word here is “this is no longer a problem.”

Exactly. If you don't have money for food, don't eat. The scoop is over, no one cares.

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

It was because of this that the USSR collapsed, because everything could be bought, but on the “black market”.

An extremely deep thought.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

Funny.

It’s unlikely that it’s that “funny” if you look deeper. If you consult with serious nutritionists, you may be surprised at how difficult everything is. Of course, bread, cheap and tasty, is simply necessary and should always be on store shelves.
It is always necessary to remember that the vast majority of the population of central Russia are descendants of hunter-gatherers who never consumed a lot of bread and cereals. The diet of hunter-gatherers included a lot of greens, mushrooms, berries, meat and fish

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

Of course, bread, cheap and tasty, is simply necessary and should always be on store shelves.

In the decaying USSR they ate a lot of bread - this was due to hunger. In capitalist Russia they eat a lot of bread - this is because bread is necessary and should always be on store shelves. Really, what's so funny about that?

By the way, about the delicious stuff - you got carried away. Modern mass-produced bread is rubbish compared to Soviet bread.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

In the decaying USSR they ate a lot of bread - this was due to hunger. In capitalist Russia they eat a lot of bread - this is because bread is necessary and should always be on store shelves. Really, what's so funny about that?

In fact, they consume excessive amounts of bread due to a lack of essential foods in the diet, and this leads to negative consequences. People often do not have the time and opportunity to cook and eat what they need and they replace it with cheap bread and eggs. What they can afford, due to circumstances and means. If you get into the outback, you will see that the locals still take care of the berry fields. They do not allow wild strawberry fields to be plowed. Plow it once and the berry disappears forever. Where does this come from and how long has it been around? Also around the villages, in the forests, hops, bird cherry, hazel, and wild currants grow along the streams. Everything is not just like that and not by chance.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

People often do not have the time and opportunity to cook and eat what they need and they replace it with cheap bread and eggs.

That's how it is. No time.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

That's how it is. No time.

How else? Life is simple and uncomplicated. A man woke up in the morning and needed to get to work, which would take at least 8 hours, plus travel there and back. The children need to be collected, sent and picked up, and some shopping needs to be done. The day has passed. This is how eggs and bread appear on the table. When and where to get mushrooms, berries, greens in the city? Yes, and preparation will require time and imagination, which, in the morning bustle, is not enough. There are only 24 hours in a day.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

How else? Life is simple and uncomplicated.

You get out very simply.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

You get out very simply.

I'm not trying to get away with it. Life is generally uncomplicated. Add up what a modern city dweller needs to do in a day and you get the rest of your sleep time, much less than 8 hours. Where will health come from if you even have to go to the doctor and stand in line? Therefore, in the villages along the paths, rivers and streams, a lot of tasty things grew, which you still need to get in the city, even if you have money.

[DenVB]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

I'm not trying to get away with it.

No. Absolutely not.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: DenVB

No. Absolutely not.

Are you ironic?
We create problems and difficulties for ourselves, which we then heroically and revolutionary overcome, destroying people in senseless wars. Our ancestors, the same Neanderthals, came up with birch bark bodies and baskets. They carried what they liked, mushrooms, berries, various fruits, perhaps from afar. On the way home, they sowed the surrounding area with what they liked and needed. As a result, life became much more attractive. How many healthy things will village children eat on the way to the beach and back? Everything in life is simple, which is why Neanderthals had such a large brain volume.

[Eugene Zaboy]

There was simply no small business in the USSR, and hence the lack of diversity in literally the entire range of goods and services. This is good for the Army, but very bad for ordinary people. The population needs to dress differently, eat differently and relax after work in a variety of ways.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

I don’t remember that we had problems with eggs in the USSR, sorry. Some hooligans threw them from the balcony at passers-by.

Can you remember cases where in the USSR patients were denied hospitalization, let’s say in the early 60s... so in 62-63?

[october]

I can’t remember, I’m not old enough to remember 1962. But, as far as I remember, in the USSR there was a law on liability for failure to provide assistance....
Here's from TSB:
Failure to provide assistance to a patient.
According to Soviet criminal law, one of the crimes against human life and health. According to the Fundamentals of the Legislation of the USSR and Union Republics on Health Care of 1969, medical and pharmaceutical workers are obliged to provide citizens with first emergency medical care on the road, on the street, in other public places and at home, regardless of whether they were on duty or not. Medical workers of state or public institutions (enterprises) who fail to provide assistance to a patient in the performance of their official duties are liable for malfeasance.

Источник: https://gufo.me/dict/bse/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B8_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%83

[kalibr]

Quote: October

I can’t remember, I’m not old enough to remember 1962. But, as far as I remember, in the USSR there was a law on liability for failure to provide assistance....
Here's from TSB:
Failure to provide assistance to a patient.
According to Soviet criminal law, one of the crimes against human life and health. According to the Fundamentals of the Legislation of the USSR and Union Republics on Health Care of 1969, medical and pharmaceutical workers are obliged to provide citizens with first emergency medical care on the road, on the street, in other public places and at home, regardless of whether they were on duty or not. Medical workers of state or public institutions (enterprises) who fail to provide assistance to a patient in the performance of their official duties are liable for malfeasance.

Источник: https://gufo.me/dict/bse/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B8_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%83

That's what I thought. And I can say that NO FUCK your law was implemented 100%. In Penza for sure! Here was my article with photocopies of a document from the archives of the OK CPSU, which dealt with issues of medical care for citizens of Penza and the region in 62-63. Sov. secret. Certainly. And it reported that 1440 (or so) patients were hospitalized. Here is the TSB for you, and I have a photocopy of the report at the plenum of the OK CPSU of the Penza region. And now: this is no exception. This means that all regions and republics would have accumulated a huge number this year! The difference between law and life is obvious. And even more so with a textbook. So before you write “smart” articles, go to the archives! You will learn a lot of new things for yourself! Until I went to the archives, I believed in all your figures. And he was a registered communist. And after working there, it became quite the opposite!

[october]

Learn to separate the particular and the general; you can remember these two categories in diameter. At the same time, consider the trend in the USSR and in the modern bourgeois state for comparison.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

Learn to separate the particular and the general; you can remember these two categories in diameter. At the same time, consider the trend in the USSR and in the modern bourgeois state for comparison.

I am well aware of the Communists' way of using words. When there is no knowledge, this is the thing.

[october]

If you do not separate the particular and the general, then this is your problem. The right moment for manipulation. In general, read the diameter.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

In general, read the diameter.

I passed it once and for all when I took the candidate minimum exams in 1983. before studying in graduate school at Kuibyshev State University and writing a dissertation on the topic “Party leadership of scientific and technical creativity of students in the Middle Volga region during the 9th Five-Year Plan on the example of universities in Penza, Kuibyshev and Ulyanovsk.”

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: October

If you do not separate the particular and the general, then this is your problem.

You can't feed and clothe people with propaganda. If there is more private than general, the state collapses. Problems must be effectively resolved, and not discussed for decades, for fear of violating party discipline and losing a warm place.

[kalibr]

Quote from Eugene Zaboy

If there is more private than general, the state collapses.

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[tank64rus]

So, in addition to this, food was dumped into ravines and milk was poured into pits. Products produced by enterprises were left in warehouses or taken away in an unknown direction, instead of being sent to the consumer. All this is recorded either in photographs, or filming, or documents. Everything was done according to plan. But we won’t know who carried it out and how, as well as the story of the conspiracies against Stalin and the betrayals of the beginning of the war.

[kalibr]

Quote: tank64rus

or documents.

Your account has been terminated.

[P]

88-89 the abolition of the monopoly of foreign trade, plus huge dumps of ready-made food gave rise to flocks of fish. raven and magpie.

[Igor_Lvovich]

Yes, Gorbachev had no plan! Remember, he rushed about like a violet in an ice hole. This is a meritocracy in production (workers choose a foreman, foremen choose a foreman, and so on). Of course, the bosses got rid of competent subordinates so that they wouldn’t get stuck, who would just give up their power? Did Gorbachev propose a solution? Well, who will give the land to the farmer so that he can show how weak the chairman of this collective farm is? Because you shout on every corner: “Perestroika, Glasnost!” Nothing will change. And then there’s “Acceleration”! There's no time to look back. Only forward. "Talking is not carrying bags." And suddenly Tarasov handed over so many party fees that the nomenklatura’s faces were twisted with greed! They took immediate action and made the tax higher than profit. So he didn't have any plan. The communists of that time thought that all they had to do was voice it and everything would come true as if by a pike. And since they are narrow-minded people, they grabbed hold of what lay under their feet (capitalism) and, according to “Dunno on the Moon,” they tried to build it. “You’re a communist, and only fools consult experts.” Even 1917 is not a lesson for them! “To the ground, and then...” Why break what worked? What's the plan? Just stupid people.

[october]

The reasons that make you think that it was set out in the article. I think these are very good reasons. As for what they showed you on TV, so what do you want them to tell you straight? Addresses, passwords, appearances?

[Igor_Lvovich]

And you don’t need any passwords or appearances. Gorbachev was one of those communists who, being completely incompetent, rushed to solve problems “with his saber drawn.” Khrushchev and Chubais were the same. In civilian life, such people are called “initiative”; this is Father Fyodor from “The Golden Calf” (and the soap spread and the rabbits died). But the Chinese really had a plan.

[Gpn27]

Soviet system and com. The party completely discredited itself. Moreover, people who had difficulty obtaining private property (the same apartments, cars) will oppose any red revolution. I own a three-room apartment, earned by 20 years of labor, in which I live alone. As soon as I imagine that they are coming to “densify” me, my hands are itching to shoot the communists.

[october]

Neither the Soviet system nor the party discredited themselves. As I wrote at the beginning, we need to look at the cases. You need to look at the affairs of the party and the Soviet state and everything will be obvious. The renegades have discredited themselves and, again, by their actions show that they are never communists. According to merit and honor.
And there is no need for horror myths about compaction.

[Gpn27]

The Decree of the Presidium of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of August 20, 1918 “On the abolition of the right of private ownership of real estate in cities” abolished the right of private ownership of housing and transferred residential buildings to the disposal of local authorities. In Moscow, according to the resolutions of the Moscow Council “on city real estate” of November 30, December 12, 1917 and January 26, 1918, the right of private ownership of houses was abolished if their value was at least 20 thousand rubles, or if the net annual rental income exceeded 750 rubles . Don't tell me that sealing is a myth. The renegades were members of the Communist Party and for me they are no different from other members. There are good and bad people everywhere. If bad people come to power, it means the system is bad. Among the capitalists and feudal lords, I can also find good and effective leaders of Russia. So the Soviet system discredited itself.

[october]

When I wrote, I had in mind developed socialism of the 60-70s and early 80s. As for 1918 and around it, there were special conditions associated with the appalling living conditions of the bulk of the workers, so this measure is justified.
Well, if for you

The renegades were members of the Communist Party and for me they are no different from other members.

, then say directly that you don’t want to know the truth and that’s all. It’s not clear why you even read this then.

[Gpn27]

It’s better to say directly that you are still brainwashed by the communists and you don’t want to know the truth. But no one canceled the Vtsik decision of 1918. Home ownership rights did not appear in the 70s.

[october]

Logic and brainwashing are incompatible things. Find a flaw in the logic, then talk about brainwashed.
Does it need ownership?
I won’t clarify now, it seemed to be considered that the apartment was for long-term lease. And what difference does it make to me if I live there?
It is possible that the cooperative apartments were owned; this needs to be clarified.

[Gpn27]

Yes, I need the right of private ownership of the means of production, incl. the right to rent out an apartment, the right to use it for transportation and make a profit from your car. The right of use (there was no rental housing in the sense of modern rent in the USSR) does not provide such opportunities. In addition, the right to lease (use) is not inherited or sold. Cooperative houses belonged not to citizens, but to cooperatives. Citizens in cooperatives owned a share, for which an apartment was allocated. At a general meeting of the cooperative, a citizen could, for example, be expelled from it, and goodbye to the apartment. The sale of a share is associated with the entry into the cooperative of a new member who may not have been accepted. I am trying to convey that even a simple worker who received an apartment from his grandmother will be against communism, because... The theory of communism denies private property. Another thing is state capitalism, as in China.

[P]

again you are ignorant, the document talks about apartment buildings rented apartment by apartment or on corners.

[Gpn27]

It looks like you don't know how to read. The decision of the Moscow Council of 1917 talks about apartment buildings, and the Decree of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of 1918 talks about all houses. By the way, I specifically added the decision of the Moscow City Council to my post in order to check how well you can ignore the truth.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

The renegades have discredited themselves and, again, by their actions show that they are never communists. According to merit and honor.

All 18 million? Did the Soviet regime give birth to so many renegades?

[october]

Did I say something about the fact that there are 18 million renegades?
You are not fighting your own shadow.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

You need to look at the affairs of the party and the Soviet state and everything will be obvious.

Right! And they are reflected in the documents of the archives of the OK CPSU and the CPSU Central Committee. Happy working there!

[october]

As I said, enough has been published to have an idea of ​​the trends, and in many cases the details are also known.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

enough published

The opinion of a techie who doesn’t know which way the door in the archive opens.

[october]

Refer to the source. And offhand - can someone like you really be allowed to form an opinion about the USSR? Even if you go to the archive. Your fundamental task is to defend the bourgeoisie.

[kalibr]

Quote: October

Your fundamental task is to defend the bourgeoisie.

And yours will correctly and skillfully defend the achievements of socialism. We already screwed him up once, we must try not to repeat our own mistakes. Know more than your opponents and skillfully fight them. And you get down to business without ever going to the archives. Funny. You will simply force me to start visiting the OK CPSU Penz archive again. region and turn inside out all the party stuff that is stored there. It will only benefit me. How about you?!

[P]

1 defeat of implementation is not equal to defeat of the theory; they broke the USSR according to it, just as they built it. 2 you are ignorant and confuse private property with personal property. 3 you will be more likely to be compacted by capital, because... Now there is a crisis, monopolies are already eating each other and medium-sized businesses, and small and individual citizens are being pressured for the company and ground into fine powder in the global carnage

[Gpn27]

Are you a lawyer and have developed a theory of the difference between private property and personal property? I’m not confusing anything: there are personal non-property rights (the right to a family name, to life, etc.), and there is private ownership of an apartment. Your education in this area remains at the 9th grade level.

[october]

The Constitution in the USSR provided for several forms of socialist property (Article 10 of the 1977 Constitution): state, collective and personal property of Soviet citizens.
There was no private property in the USSR. Private property made it possible to extract surplus value through exploitation. These are the basics of social science in the USSR.

[Gpn27]

Thank you for the obvious clarification, which I know without you. So, I am against communism, because... he is against private ownership of the means of production. I want to have my apartment as a private property, sell it, donate it, rent it out for profit. And I consider it necessary to persecute and ban communists who are against these 20 years of hard-earned rights of mine.

[october]

Those. Do you think that through your 20 years of work you have earned the right to exploit others?
Your concepts of justice are interesting.

[Gpn27]

Through my labor I have earned the right to dispose of what I have earned, don’t distort the concept. And other citizens of our country are not ready to give what they earn to the incomprehensible Soviet society or the Communist Party. If you want to use the result that I received for my work, pay me, it’s fair. And the highest justice is for sectarians who transfer their property to the sect for the sake of enlightenment. You don’t consider the communists a sect, do you? And by the way, the party nomenklatura, incl. Nothing prevented Stalin from using the results of the work of other people, i.e. based on your concept of exploiting them.

[october]

Nobody encroached on your honestly earned money; you can spend it however you want. As for the apartment, the state gave it to you not because you earned it, but because you need somewhere to live. The Constitution guaranteed everyone the right to housing. Naturally, you will not rent out such an apartment, because you will live there. Although some allowed tenants in for money.

[Gpn27]

The state gave you an apartment, which you shamelessly privatized, robbing other citizens of the state, and I bought my apartment with a mortgage, which I recently paid off. Why are you all trying to go somewhere else? The answer is better than communism, which is essentially different from a totalitarian sect. where all property is socialized.

[october]

You have gone off topic, and I will not engage in educational activities. There is enough literature.

[Reptiloid]

It seems to me that there is a misunderstanding of the meaning above in general. Or distortion. After all, under the USSR there were cooperative apartments built with the population’s money, according to rules similar to mortgages. For example, there was a standard area per person when people were put on the waiting list for a free apartment. And if anyone had several meters more than this norm, then they could join the cooperative. These cooperatives were often located at large enterprises for employees. And if the opponent is against

private ownership of the means of production

, then the apartment that he writes he wants

be privately owned

This does not contradict at all.
It is already private property, like cooperative property under the USSR. But it was impossible to use it as a means of production even under the USSR. Not now. And the current laws are better than the previous ones in this regard.

[Gpn27]

I explained above that cooperative houses were collectively owned by the cooperative, and the citizen was a member of the cooperative who could be expelled and could not sell his share, i.e. no private property. Please read the entire controversy before expressing your opinion.

[runway-1]

One of the most important factors was a long-term dogmatic attitude towards theory and a violation of the principle of real participation of the people in representative power, which made it possible during the period of “perestroika” to carry out grandiose speculations on these issues.
But in general, as a remark to the title of the article: “After a fight they don’t wave their fists”...

[october]

“After a fight they don’t wave their fists”...

History provides lessons that must be learned.
Sometimes, unfortunately, she charges a very high price.

[andrey martov]

I lived at that time, Horatio. It was a time of absolute lies called truth. And therefore the whole country was in a lie over the abyss of truth. . .and we as a whole country jumped into this truth. . .And now we are building a fairy tale with all our might, because both lies and truth are destructive and only a fairy tale is life-giving. . .

[P]

a lot of words, but nothing is said) neither statement nor argumentation)

[squid]

What kind of ancient zombie crawled out of the crypt? or is this just subtle banter?
“counter-revolution”, “bourgeoisie”, “Marskyism-Leninism”, “capitalism”... tough.
in fact, the surprise is not that communism failed, but that it lasted so long. It is impossible to create any competitive system on the basis of Marxism, because this theory is a fake and a dummy." Marxism is a great lie" (c)

[kalibr]

Quote: squid

What kind of ancient zombie crawled out of the crypt?

This is a technician who cannot access the archives!

[Igor_Lvovich]

Look through Galushka A.S. and your opinion will change dramatically.

[futurohunter]

squid
From Marxism - You've probably never heard of China...

[jaroff]

There was no point in touching the vodka. The decree of May 17, 1985 marked the beginning of the end of the country

[avtandil]

Hello, garage! Why this chatter? The dog is dead! And why is there a photo of the uncle who fucked up Khokhland?

[futurohunter]

The author gives an overly simplified and naive explanation. At the same time, he stubbornly glosses over two important facts:
1. China introduced a market economy without abandoning its ideology. So what, we see the most powerful economy in the world... with communist ideology and the market
2. The author never said the word “betrayal”. But it was! It has already been proven that the mentioned Yakovlev was an agent of the American intelligence services. Yeltsin has already openly shown that his masters are in the United States. Gorbachev received a large pension from the United States until his death. KGB General Shironin and also...Ragozin (yes, that same one) wrote very well about the betrayal of the top of the USSR and their collusion with the USA.

[futurohunter]

The author is a dogmatist and thinks in outdated ideas. There was no counter-revolution, but the deliberate destruction of a civilizational competitor by the forces of foreign agents who seized power. And this process began not in 1985, but much earlier, after Stalin’s death. After all, these Yakovlevs, Gorbachevs and Yeltsins came from somewhere? By 1985, their activities simply became completely open and visible

[futurohunter]

By the way, the KGB saw everything and sounded the alarm. But it was already powerless, for the traitors were much higher

[futurohunter]

We should also note the systemic crisis in the USSR. On the one hand, there is obvious dogmatism and scolding around the “only correct ideology” - Lenin warned about the danger of this. Because of this, a significant part of the conservative elite was unable to make the right management decisions. On the other hand, the activities of traitors. The captains of the country, some out of stupidity, and others quite deliberately, led it to the iceberg.
We are seeing another crisis in the economy - the planned economy simply could not flexibly respond to the needs of a huge country. And it, due to the stupidity of some and the evil intent of others, was stupidly destroyed. Although it was necessary to simply reduce the degree of centralization and introduce some market elements. Beria proposed this, and this was done in China.
The country was allowed (and in some cases deliberately) criminalized. By the way, the traitor rulers actively participated in this.
In short, even Kara-Murza, who wrote several thick books, did not give an exhaustive explanation

[futurohunter]

The author wrote in the title about opposition. There is not a word about this in the article.

[futurohunter]

It seems that the author wrote the article based on some books, but he himself did not live in Soviet times. He writes that the engineer received 100 rubles. at that time it was quite enough. Firstly, not 100, but at least 120; cleaners received 100 each. But also 120 rubles. enough only for a very modest life. No, no one was starving, but you won’t really run away either. For example, a color TV cost 800 rubles, and a car - at least 5000. My father, in order to buy a Zhiguli, when it was his turn, borrowed money from all possible relatives. Another question is that in the late USSR there was a large deficit, and people simply had nothing to spend money on, so many had large savings. And one of the reasons for the deficit is precisely the CENTRALIZED planned economy, which did not take into account the needs of a huge country. And the other reason is precisely the sabotage of traitors from the CPSU Central Committee

[futurohunter]

I read the comments. I remembered the Komsomol meeting in the 9th grade (in 1983), empty speeches, how we fell asleep at it. As they whispered: “How tired of all this, and we need to change. But then there will be a terrible catastrophe!” There was no mining construction yet. I’m still surprised how 2 boys, with no life experience, understood everything correctly...