How did the witch trials go?

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Preparing for execution
Preparing for execution


Let's go to the small village of Aldern in Scotland. The 16th century left a big mark on these places. This is the Battle of Aldern during the Civil War, and the burning of witches, for example, the famous story with Isabel Gowdy. Several novels have been written and a play has been staged based on this event. Let's look down to the smallest detail at how the witch trials took place in the Middle Ages using the example of Goudi.



What is known about Isabelle Gowdy


In fact, little is known about this girl, who lived in the mid-17th century in Scotland. Much of the information comes from the novel The Devil's Mistress, written in 1915. There was also supposedly real information left, some records that disappeared in the 17th century and appeared only in the 19th. It is impossible to say whether they are true or not, but they are more real.

Isabel lived with her husband John Gilbert in the town of Loch Loy. Her age is not known for certain. In Scotland, you could get married at the age of 15, and the average age for marriage was 24-28 years. Looking ahead, we note that she admitted to witchcraft, that she had had sex for more than 15 years with all sorts of evil spirits. So the woman was somewhere between 30 and 45 years old. Nothing is known about the children. The husband was a farm laborer and worked on a private farm. The wife, according to her testimony, sold meat and fabrics at the market.

If you plunge into the life of Scottish villages of that time, you can assume that a typical day for Isabel revolved around milking cows, baking bread, gardening, and spinning. And she was unlikely to be educated; most likely, she did not read or write. But she expressed her thoughts well, because the volume of testimony amazed her. This sets her case apart from most others.

What did she admit?


In the 19th century, Robert Pitcairn published Gowdy's confessions in his book The Ancient Criminal Trials of Scotland. The author found them in the National Archives of Scotland. The papers previously belonged to the woman's landlord.

According to documents, Isabelle confessed to her deeds four times from April to June 1662. Not surprising, considering what they resorted to in order to get confessions. Most of them are standard - attending a coven, using harmful magic, making a pact with the devil. But there were also some completely unusual ones.

For example, there is a known confession according to which Gowdy dug up the body of a child from a grave and used it for a spell to destroy Bradley's neighbor's crops. It sounds crazy, but Isabel had to give such testimony under torture. She also admitted that she spoiled her neighbors’ crops with the help of a frog, after which thistles grew there instead of crops. The woman also allegedly made Voodoo dolls of the offspring of a local lord and through them caused suffering to the men. Isabel also admitted that she cast a spell against the local minister Forbes, causing him to become ill. The same minister extracted Gowdy's confession.

In addition, the poor woman admitted to having a carnal relationship with the devil, describing all the details of these meetings. Allegedly, there were regular meetings and group ones. Isabel also treated people from complex diseases by transferring the disease from a sick person to animals or simple things.

How to achieve recognition


The suspects were kept in solitary confinement at the time. The case was investigated by two local ministers, Forbes and Rose, who clearly sought a guilty verdict and were biased.

The first words of the first confession have reached us:

"The said Isabel Gowdy repents of her heinous crimes of witchcraft."

Of course, we understand that there are no witches, and the woman was forced to confess to something she did not do. It was 1000 years ago, and 500, and exists now.

It is quite difficult for us now to imagine the fact that someone admits to a conspiracy with the devil, witchcraft, knowing that this will result in the death penalty. But they still admitted it. So does Isabelle Gowdy. I am sure that this was extracted from her by torture. Exactly what, we will never know. But we are no longer interested in this particular case, but in a sort of typical witch trial. In Scotland at that time the following tortures were used:

• Physical coercion. This includes torture machines. For example, an iron boot. True, such torture required the approval of the Privy Council. Its resolution was rarely resorted to, because witch cases were more often heard by Church courts, and they were prohibited from using direct torture. Although who and when did these prohibitions interfere with, if no one knows about them?

• Search for the devil's mark or prick. At that time there were special people who were injecting witches. It was used to determine whether there was a mark of the devil. A pin was stuck into the woman's body. If there is no blood, it means the witch has a pact with the devil. The injection specialist would undress the woman, shave her completely, and stick a pin into her body until he found a place where no blood flowed. I note that they were injected not with an ordinary small pin, but with a large thick one, the length of which could reach 10 cm. During such injections, women lost consciousness and bled. There have been cases where a retractable blade was used. It was hidden from the eyes of others, supposedly inserted into the skin, although it remained in the handle. Of course, in this case the blood did not flow. Yes, modesty was a priority back then. The suspects were stripped naked, touched, and for the women it was humiliation. Therefore, they confessed to everything, just so that such harassment would end.

• Sleep deprivation. This did not qualify as torture at that time. The accused was isolated and a guard was assigned to her, who did not allow the woman to fall asleep. Due to lack of sleep, after a few days the suspects began to hallucinate, which served as additional confirmation of the witchcraft sign for the prosecution.

• Harsh content. Women could not be fed for days, kept in cold and complete darkness, and treated cruelly.

• Other torture. This includes less common mob violence. It often manifested itself in beatings and sexual harassment. And also sometimes women admitted to having relations with the devil under the threat of cruel execution.

It is unknown whether Gowdy was executed or not. Most records of executions have not survived to the present day. Most likely, Isabel, like other girls, was transported to the then small village of Gallowhill, where they were strangled and burned. In those days, “witches” were often first strangled and then burned, so that they could not be resurrected. The executions were public and all members of the communities were present.

Isabel Gowdy probably had a mental illness, perhaps she suffered from ergotism - poisoning from ergot growing on rye. We will never know the truth about this poor woman, as well as about the others who were burned. But at least they lifted the veil a little in such matters.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +13
      5 January 2024 06: 30
      - [i]Witch! Burn it!
      - Padre, but she is very beautiful!
      - Okay, but then burn it anyway!

      This is how only the Loggards, Ursulas, Karlidelponts, etc. Gretas remained in Europe!
      1. +2
        6 January 2024 10: 53
        Of course, we understand that there are no witches

        Yeah ...
        According to statistics, 85% of people in the world identify themselves with one religion or another.
        If you believe in gods, believe in demons.
        And there are demons - there are also witches and sorcerers.
        This is the understanding.
      2. +4
        13 February 2024 22: 48
        Women with disproportionate facial features, as in the exhibition, sit in European parliaments, work as ministers and command armies. Maybe this is the original reason for hatred of Russians. Universal resentment for one’s appearance and the desire to take revenge on a beautiful rival.
    2. +4
      5 January 2024 06: 30
      - Witch ! Burn it!
      - Padre, but she is very beautiful!
      - Okay, but then burn it anyway!

      This is how only the Loggards, Ursulas, Karlidelponts, etc. Gretas remained in Europe!
      1. Alf
        +4
        5 January 2024 21: 40
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        - Witch ! Burn it!
        - Padre, but she is very beautiful!
        - Okay, but then burn it anyway!

        This is how only the Loggards, Ursulas, Karlidelponts, etc. Gretas remained in Europe!
        1. +1
          6 January 2024 10: 57
          Alf, Where is the quote from?
          1. Alf
            +1
            6 January 2024 19: 26
            Vladislav Konyushevsky. Cycle Attempt to return. 4 books. This particular quote is from the fourth book. Available on Rutrekker.
    3. +8
      5 January 2024 07: 55
      Quote: bya965
      However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict

      Christians slaughtered Muslims, Muslims killed Christians. Sunnis are Shiites and Shiites are Sunnis. Catholics, in turn, sawed out Protestants, and Protestants cut out Catholics. And all this was done for God, in His name and in His name wink
      1. +6
        5 January 2024 16: 03
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Quote: bya965
        However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict

        Christians slaughtered Muslims, Muslims killed Christians. Sunnis are Shiites and Shiites are Sunnis. Catholics, in turn, sawed out Protestants, and Protestants cut out Catholics. And all this was done for God, in His name and in His name wink

        And all these actions and worship of God (Christ. Jehovah, Allah and.. And, interestingly, Buddha is not written here!) Covering up the thirst for gold and power.. Only gold and power.
      2. Alf
        +5
        5 January 2024 21: 44
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Christians slaughtered Muslims, Muslims killed Christians. Sunnis are Shiites and Shiites are Sunnis. Catholics, in turn, sawed out Protestants, and Protestants cut out Catholics. And all this was done for God, in His name and in His name

        "Kill everyone, God in heaven will recognize his own."
    4. -8
      5 January 2024 10: 53
      Quote: bya965

      However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

      Which means you are a humanist...not hard, but soft.
      Got it. Do you have a mother, wife, sister or daughter?
      And to protect them, if anything, are you only capable of expressing condemnation?
      What about contradictions in this sense? Probably something like “you can kill, but not harshly...” laughing
      1. +8
        5 January 2024 12: 22
        Quote: ivan2022
        Got it. Do you have a mother, wife, sister or daughter?
        And to protect them, if anything, are you only capable of expressing condemnation?
        Well, you compared... Real relatives with the tales of Jewish shepherds.
      2. +6
        5 January 2024 12: 59
        Quote: ivan2022
        Which means you are a humanist...not hard, but soft.

        As a Russian person, I live according to my conscience, and all Abrahamic religions live according to the rules.
        Give me more liberal chatter about a child's tears.
    5. +7
      5 January 2024 12: 08
      Well, Hinduism and Shintoism are no better
    6. 0
      6 January 2024 01: 12
      Quote: bya965
      Historically, Christianity, you know, is a contradictory thing:
      - Can't you kill?
      - No you can not.
      - And for faith?
      - Well, this is a sacred thing...

      However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

      The hell that happened in the Middle Ages and at the beginning of modern times in Western Europe under the auspices of the Catholic Church has nothing to do with real Christianity. It all started with a schism when Jewish Freemasons and Satanists began to become popes. For them, the worse it was, the better. People were even forbidden to wash themselves, calling it a sin, which caused people to smell unbearably and spread infections. It was, as it were, anti-Christianity and the complete opposite of Eastern Christianity - Orthodoxy. However, if you are a fan of Lenin’s works, then it is useless to explain anything to you.
      1. +2
        13 January 2024 21: 14
        However, if you are a fan of Lenin’s works, then it is useless to explain anything to you.

        Judging by the fact that Lenin and the Bolsheviks began to be dragged into neither the village nor the city, orders were received to kill the communists.
        Apparently, this is due to the disgusting quality of the Soviet legacy in the housing and communal services sector, which did not last even half a century without repairs and maintenance.
        1. 0
          18 January 2024 23: 54
          Quote: kakvastam
          However, if you are a fan of Lenin’s works, then it is useless to explain anything to you.

          Judging by the fact that Lenin and the Bolsheviks began to be dragged into neither the village nor the city, orders were received to kill the communists.
          Apparently, this is due to the disgusting quality of the Soviet legacy in the housing and communal services sector, which did not last even half a century without repairs and maintenance.

          What nonsense? From whom did it come? The only legacy that Lenin has to do with is the fact that Russia was divided into pseudo-national republics, in which the Russian language was banned and forced to switch to other languages ​​with the inevitable prospect of their “independence”, as well as the execution of priests, the destruction of thousand-year-old ancient Russian temples - shrines and architectural and historical monuments of world significance, the Red Terror, the cult of personality of a moral monster, demonstrations with satanic symbols and all that. It’s funny that those whom this Lenin and his comrades gave birth to today in the pig farm demolished his monuments. Communism and democracy are fairy tales for fools!
          1. +1
            19 January 2024 00: 15
            By the way, the funny thing is that communism and democracy in theory do not contradict each other at all, because communism is a utopian model of distribution of goods, and democracy is a utopian model of government. But those slaves to whom these utopias are sold by fat, burry men, due to their intelligence, do not even think about it.
    7. +1
      13 January 2024 21: 20
      However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

      Rather, any monotheistic, as totalitarian in nature.
      However, neither polytheism nor atheism has ever prevented one from bleeding one's neighbor.
      Disputes between economic entities are primary; ideology only serves them.
      1. 0
        19 January 2024 00: 03
        Quote: kakvastam
        However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

        Rather, any monotheistic, as totalitarian in nature.

        Well, of course, but making human sacrifices to pagan idols is not a totalitarian religion, but a democratic one! laughing And most importantly, it is more consistent with the intelligence of some peoples.
  2. +10
    5 January 2024 05: 49
    Quote: bya965
    However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict

    Ha... well, our atheists are like God's dandelions... smile
    All the same, specific individuals suffer from sadistic inclinations...otherwise any even the most peace-loving religion, idea, thought can be brought under reprisal against undesirable people, guided by supposed protection from the harmful forces of anything...evil, the devil, Satan, the devil, a counter-revolutionary, a revolutionary, bourgeois, communist, Russian, Jews and then.
    1. +4
      5 January 2024 06: 07
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      и then.

      This is the word I liked the most.
      I don’t even know where it came from: “BEAUTY WILL SAVE THE WORLD!”
      * * *
      When I cook cabbage soup, adding fresh vegetables and herbs, I tell my wife: “Beautiful food cannot be tasteless!”
      1. +4
        5 January 2024 06: 16
        Have you noticed how WADA and the IOC deal with our athletes... just like with witches... only instead of bonfires, renunciation of international sports.
        The slogan “Sport is the World” has become a mockery in our world...now the Western crusaders are pointing their finger at the Russian people, making them guilty of their sins and problems...Putin is like a witch to them.
        Witch hunts in the Middle Ages were a well-established technology for transferring society’s discontent onto completely innocent people who came to hand...you have to blame crop failures, illnesses, and failures in wars on someone.
        1. +1
          5 January 2024 19: 55
          If there had been an opportunity, they would have been put on fire, don’t doubt it one bit...
      2. +8
        5 January 2024 06: 59
        Quote: ROSS 42
        where did it come from: “BEAUTY WILL SAVE THE WORLD!”

        This is what the heroes of the novel “The Idiot” (F.M. Dostoevsky) spoke out about.
        This well-known aphorism is understood by everyone in their own way, and there is a strong opinion that no amount of beauty will save the world, at least long-legged, big-lipped beauties certainly won’t.
        Christ is the Savior of the world, this is what it is - “beauty will save the world,” as Fyodor Mikhailovich apparently believed.
        1. +7
          5 January 2024 07: 52
          Quote: bober1982
          no amount of beauty can save the world, at least long-legged, big-lipped beauties certainly won’t

          These are simply standards of today's beauty. In the 70s they were theirs, and in the 80s they were theirs. Although, personally, thick lips and ripped jeans somehow don’t quite suit me wink
          1. -2
            5 January 2024 08: 27
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            These are simply standards of today's beauty

            Apparently, today, the standard of beauty is a modern anti-aircraft missile system or a hypersonic cruise missile.
            Take for example Nastasya Filippovna, from the mentioned novel by Dostoevsky, it would seem that she was the standard of beauty, how many passions there were around her - they went crazy, they killed themselves.
            And, the result of all this beauty - Nastasya Filippovna died, she stank and was surrounded by flies.
          2. +1
            5 January 2024 16: 05
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            Although, personally, thick lips and ripped jeans somehow don’t quite suit me

            Hmm...hee hee hee drinks And without pants?
            1. Alf
              +1
              5 January 2024 21: 47
              Quote: 30 vis
              And without pants?

              Some of them go under the “I won’t drink that much” column..
      3. +1
        5 January 2024 12: 45
        Quote: ROSS 42
        When I cook cabbage soup, adding fresh vegetables and herbs, I tell my wife: “Beautiful food cannot be tasteless!”
        That will do too. The beauty of the heavenly world can only be seen in one’s soul, cleansing it from the filth of the earthly world, which penetrates the soul along with carnal pleasures. Here, beautiful and tasty food will only burden you. A week on water alone and the body will be ready if the spirit is ready. But Dostoevsky saw clearly both the filth and the glimpses of heavenly beauty in the human soul. Cabbage soup, but someday we need to think about the soul, which distinguishes a person from an animal that does not look at the sky at all, only at the trough.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        5 January 2024 10: 27
        Quote: bya965
        Now the Jews are engaged in typical genocide, leading to their religious retreat, although they simply need territories, deposits in the sea off Gaza and influence throughout the world in order to save their money.

        That is why Israel carried out a massacre in the Palestinian kibbutz Beeri on 07.10/XNUMX.
        Peace to all. don't interfere with others.
      2. -1
        5 January 2024 13: 03
        Quote: bya965
        By atheism I always mean scientific atheism
        Science studies nature, society, but not miracles and cannot say anything about the presence or absence in reality of the supramaterial (supernatural), i.e., controlling the material of the ideal world in which the human soul can continue to exist. Atheism is based on the belief in the absence or disbelief in the presence of such a subsystem. They tried to make it the official religion of the communists and even all Soviet people, giving it the status of a science, but, admittedly, it did not work.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. -1
            5 January 2024 13: 31
            Quote: bya965
            Nowadays, quite often all the philosophers at universities, to one degree or another (they have never succeeded in helping the natural sciences) have moved to the level of religion.
            “They have never succeeded in helping the natural sciences” - this is atheism, because other beliefs did not set themselves such a task. But theologians separated the supernatural world, keeping it for themselves, and scientists gave the natural world - nature and society. They don't go any further. And the “level of religion” for a philosopher is the limit: he either admits the self-creation of the world, or admits the existence of a cosmic intelligent principle of this creation. Not a single version has strict proof, so it goes into the realm of faith.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. -1
                5 January 2024 13: 56
                Quote: bya965
                There is no need to invent or imagine anything, there is an experiment and there is mathematics and its formulas in which, at a given level of the universe, everything is well described and verified.
                Nobody is forcing you. Only this “everything” that is “well described and verified” is a very small part of what has not yet been reliably described and verified. As long as people have reason, they will have idealism and materialism as the ultimate thesis and antithesis for understanding the world as a whole.
                Quote: bya965
                Why don’t you consider “the existence of a cosmic irrational beginning of this creation.”
                This is the self-creation of matter. Or is there some other “material father” (albeit stupid, but somehow helped in this matter)?
                1. +1
                  5 January 2024 14: 25
                  A surgeon, an engineer and a programmer once argued about whose profession is the most ancient. Surgeon:
                  “Once upon a time, at the dawn of time, God created Eve from Adam’s rib. Only a very skilled surgeon could perform such an operation. This means that my profession is the oldest!
                  Engineer:
                  - Yes, but before that God created the world from Chaos. Only a very skilled engineer can do this kind of work. This means my profession is ancient!
                  Programmer (smiling dismissively):
                  - Guys, who do you think created Chaos?

                  Let's replace the programmer with a philosopher, and it's even more accurate.
                  1. Alf
                    0
                    5 January 2024 21: 52
                    Quote: bya965
                    Let's replace the programmer with a philosopher, and it's even more accurate.

                    Actually, the most salty thing is “on politics.”
            2. 0
              8 January 2024 12: 07
              because other beliefs did not set themselves such a task. But theologians separated the supernatural world, keeping it for themselves, and scientists gave the natural world - nature and society.

              Natural theology existed a long time ago and in different religions. And natural scientific evidence of the existence of God also arose as one of the areas of theology. Mendel, Giordano Bruno, Nicolaus Copernicus and many others are priests or monks.
              Only when it became clear that they had accumulated knowledge that, on the contrary, undermined faith in God, religion backed up, and even then not entirely - theistic evolutionism, deism - these are all really existing directions of theology.
              1. +1
                8 January 2024 12: 46
                Quote from solar
                religion has backed down, and even then not quite - theistic evolutionism, deism - these are all directions of theology that actually exist today.
                There is a substitution of theology for religion, so you have fallen into heresies. Traditional religions and their educational institutions continue to remain within the framework of faith; theologians set the task of studying dogma, scripture, church history, etc. But the law is not written to Protestant theologians. They can study, at least, the identity of aliens with angels.
                1. 0
                  8 January 2024 20: 13
                  You so freely determine who has the law and who does not.
                  For Russians, traditional religion is Perun and Dazhbog, Old Believers or the Russian Orthodox Church as a result of Nikon’s Reformation? At what point is it considered a tradition?
                  And the Church of England, for example, is it a traditional religion or not?
                  Naturalist John Ray, who defined the biological concept of species, physicist William Durham, who measured the speed of sound in air, author of “Physico-Theology”, “Astro-Theology” or the Gifford Lectures, which have existed for one and a half hundred years within the framework of natural theology as a form of knowledge of God.

                  Traditional religions and their educational institutions continue to remain within the framework of faith

                  Do you think that Protestants are atheists?
                  Is Catholicism a traditional religion in your understanding?
                  Monk of the Augustinian Order, abbot of the Catholic Starobrnen Monastery (Augustinian Abbey of St. Thomas in Old Brno) Mendel, canon in the diocese of Warmia (In the Warmia Chapter (council under the bishop) Copernicus enjoyed authority: he was a capitular trustee, twice (1516-1519 and 1520-1521) was the administrator of the chapter and the manager of the estates of the Warmian diocese, actively participated in the management of the diocese during periods of illness of its bishop Marricius Ferber) Copernicus and his close friend of the Bishop of Kulm Tiedemann Giese, with whom he discussed his famous work “On the revolutions of the celestial spheres,” which he shortly before upon his death, he handed over to Giza for publication, mentioning him in the preface - quite a Catholic of the traditional faith.
                  Theistic evolutionism or evolutionary creationism - do you think that only Protestants recognize it?
                  In his encyclical Humani Generis, my predecessor Pius XII had already confirmed that there is no contradiction between evolution and the doctrine of faith regarding man and his vocation...Today, more than half a century after the publication of this encyclical, some new findings lead us to the recognition of evolution more than a hypothesis. In fact, it is remarkable that this theory has had a gradually increasing influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in various scientific disciplines. The convergence of the results of these independent studies, none of which were planned or sought [in advance], is in itself a significant argument in support of this theory [33].

                  This is Pope John Paul II, if anything. From traditional religion.
                  And this is from the same encyclical of Pius XII
                  The authoritative Magisterium of the Church does not prohibit that, in accordance with the present state of human science and sacred theology, people competent in both fields should study and discuss the theory of evolution in so far as it examines the origin of the human body as the result of the development of pre-existing living matter. ...

                  But this is from Russian Orthodoxy, Archpriest Nikolai Sokolov, from a lecture at the Orthodox St. Tikhon Humanitarian University.
                  The Lord creates the world; His Word creates the world. And how the world is created is a matter of science. The writer of everyday life shows the same thing: from the simplest to the complex. Man did not appear first, and then other mammals, but vice versa: from the simplest to the complex. Nature had to go through a colossal path of development in order for highly organized matter to appear on earth, for the ancestor of man to appear in the form of a humanoid creature capable of surviving in any conditions, absorbing all the best that was on earth from living nature.

                  https://web.archive.org/web/20110218041355/http://www.sedmitza.ru/text/432078.html
                  1. +1
                    9 January 2024 10: 14
                    Quote from solar
                    For Russians, traditional religion is Perun and Dazhbog
                    The Eastern Slavs had such beliefs. But from what source did you learn that this is the traditional religion of the Russians? Various tribes of the Eastern Slavs rallied into the civil nation of Russians after Prince Vladimir converted to Orthodoxy. The formation of the Russian civil nation occurred around the time of the Battle of Kulikovo, when Perun and Dazhdbog had already become history. If you have a source from a non-alternative history of Russian beliefs, confirming the identity of their pantheon with the Polyans, Drevlyans, etc., a link would be in place. Once again, where, in what place in the quotes you provided did you see that religion had gone backwards? Specifically, without sheets.
                    1. 0
                      9 January 2024 11: 44
                      Perun (Old Russian Perun, Ukrainian Perun, Belarusian Pyarun; Polish piorun “thunder” [4]) is the thunder god in Slavic mythology, the patron saint of the prince and squads in Old Russian pagan pantheon. The name of Perun heads the list of gods in the pantheon of Prince Vladimir in The Tale of Bygone Years. Judging by his position in this and other ancient Russian lists of gods, he was the highest god in the pantheon of Kievan Rus[5].

                      The Caesars Leon and Alexander made peace with Oleg, pledged to pay tribute and swore allegiance to each other: they themselves kissed the cross, and Oleg and his husbands were taken to swear allegiance according to the law Russian, and they swore by their weapons and Perun, their god, and Volos, the god of cattle, and established the world[16].

                      Who is from the country Russian plans to destroy this love, then let those of them who were baptized receive retribution from God Almighty, condemnation to destruction in the afterlife, and let those of them who are not baptized have no help from both God and Perun, may they not defend themselves with their own shields, and may they perish from their swords, from arrows and from their other weapons, and may they be slaves in this life and in the afterlife[16].

                      Is Nikonian reformism also one of the beliefs of the Eastern Slavs?
                      Are you being so selective about what I write because you can’t answer anything else?
                      So, what about “traditional religions” in the light of Sokolov’s lecture or papal encyclicals?
        2. Alf
          +1
          5 January 2024 21: 51
          Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
          but, I must admit, it didn’t work out.

          You might think that it has happened now... Looking at how yesterday's top activists today unanimously hold candles in the church, I am tormented by vague doubts about the truth of their faith.
          1. 0
            6 January 2024 08: 55
            Quote: Alf
            Looking at how yesterday's top activists today unanimously hold candles in church, I am tormented by vague doubts about the truth of their faith
            So, for this, are you looking at “yesterday’s top activists”? I would not be tormented by doubts about this. Better look at those Orthodox and true believers who today are fighting against a common enemy, who brings to the world not just an atheistic, but an antitheistic ideology. By "criticizing" (without evidence) those who "hold candles in the church", you are actually grist for the mill of those who impale Baphomet on their backs, those who promote the LGBT agenda, etc., regardless of your intentions.
            1. Alf
              -1
              6 January 2024 19: 27
              Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
              By "criticizing" (without evidence) those who "hold candles in the church", you are actually grist for the mill of those who impale Baphomet on their backs, those who promote the LGBT agenda, etc., regardless of your intentions.

              And then Ostap suffered ...
            2. 0
              6 January 2024 20: 20
              So the incense of the militant church smelled. Orthodox and true believers, together with atheists, of whom the majority are there, are fighting against a specific evil generated by politicians. There is a steely material fact against your propaganda, Mr. Counterpropagandist. There is no need to add unnecessary things to the agenda. LGBT and other delights of the modern West are the product of a change in the political course of that side, in the changed conditions of existence of planet Earth. It’s just that one of the policies disappeared and there was no longer a need to feed extra mouths. From harmony, seriousness and balance, to complete chaos. It's more convenient for them. There is nothing mystical here and we don’t need opium. It is more likely to interfere, because modern man is rational and pumped full of information. Why does he need religion? He already understands where good is and where evil is. And who the enemy understands.
      3. 0
        5 January 2024 16: 47
        Quote: bya965
        But when a reason to kill is needed and this is done under church banners, the most severe massacres result. For example, the Orthodox Christians of the Catholic Union, with some kind of mania, slaughtered other Orthodox Christians.
        Can you give an example similar to Rosalia Zemlyachka? Or are you unparalleled, in general...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            5 January 2024 17: 41
            Quote: bya965
            Again raised in the Abrahamic religion.
            The destruction of the world was her religion, and her dad was a rich Jewish merchant who cared about expenses and income, and not about raising his daughter in the traditions of Judaism. So she found her fellow believers among the Marxists, and not in the synagogue, and went to destroy the whole world of violence and got carried away...
          2. +1
            6 January 2024 09: 52
            Quote: bya965
            For example, the consequences of adopting Orthodoxy.
            Many tribes, which had previously often fought with each other, united into one Russian nation, which created an empire in which different nations and beliefs coexisted for centuries, which still exists today; don't forget to mention. If the ideologists in the USSR had understood that Marx’s atheism was purely instrumental, so that nothing would prevent the proletariat from taking up arms and destroying millions of compatriots, perhaps the collapse of the USSR would not have happened: for the Asian SSR, TASSR, BASSR, republics of the North. He was definitely a “red rag” in the Caucasus. Stalin, apparently, understood this, but had no idea how to win back the “scientific atheism” that Khrushchev actively began to strengthen.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +1
                6 January 2024 10: 11
                Quote: bya965
                accepted the faith, well, let it be over 50 years and united into a single country.
                Why do you attribute your fantasies to me?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. 0
                    6 January 2024 10: 25
                    Quote: bya965
                    It is useless to talk to a believer. I write for people to think.
                    Similarly.
                    Quote: bya965
                    over 50 years old
                    You pasted your fantasy on me and pretended to argue with me. Do not think that this is banal cheating. Adju.
                  2. +1
                    6 January 2024 10: 25
                    Quote: bya965
                    It is useless to talk to a believer. I write for people to think.
                    Similarly.
                    Quote: bya965
                    over 50 years old
                    You pasted your fantasy on me and pretended to argue with me. Do not think that this is banal cheating. “The fool who believes that a nation is formed in 50 years” is not me. “The new historical community of people - the Soviet people” is not a nation. Adju.
    3. 0
      6 January 2024 18: 59
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Quote: bya965
      However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict

      Ha... well, our atheists are like God's dandelions... smile
      All the same, specific individuals suffer from sadistic inclinations...otherwise any even the most peace-loving religion, idea, thought can be brought under reprisal against undesirable people, guided by supposed protection from the harmful forces of anything...evil, the devil, Satan, the devil, a counter-revolutionary, a revolutionary, bourgeois, communist, Russian, Jews and then.

      A very controversial statement. A system such as medieval Catholicism, which forces everyone without exception to cultivate these sadistic inclinations, cannot be compared in any way with a system that tries to strangle it, so that it no longer emerges and dumbs down society to the point of immeasurable cruelty.
  3. +7
    5 January 2024 05: 50
    if you read at least a little the history of the “acts” of Christianity and the “holy books” of this religion, then it is logical to come to the conclusion about the incredible vileness, cruelty and hypocrisy of its “actors”. However, this can be said about almost any “top” religion :(
    1. -1
      5 January 2024 14: 22
      Quote: Tarasios
      if you read at least a little the history of the “acts” of Christianity and the “holy books” of this religion, then it is logical to come to the conclusion...
      The key word here is "a little." This is what happens to those who want to read a little in order to understand a lot: they go to Twitter and the cart.
  4. 0
    5 January 2024 06: 02
    You cited methods of “fighting witches.” This is how they dealt with their compatriots in Europe. Imagine what they were preparing for the residents of the country they considered the sources of evil - the residents of Russia.
    1. -3
      5 January 2024 08: 51
      Putin is my president!

      Quote: ROSS 42
      This is how they dealt with their compatriots in Europe.

      No. The fact of the matter is that those who came (carrying the cross) are not their own. Under the guise of fighting witches, they destroyed the local elite and installed their local “dolls” on the board. The public burning of “witches” was necessary to break the will of the people to resist (Odessa).

      ps
      The film "Alexander Nevsky", the scene of the burning of the cross by children carrying them, in front of their mothers...
    2. +1
      7 January 2024 16: 12
      Quote: ROSS 42
      You cited methods of “fighting witches.” This is how they dealt with their compatriots in Europe. Imagine what they were preparing for the residents of the country they considered the sources of evil - the residents of Russia.

      That is, do you think that the British, let’s say, treated the Spaniards and French better? And while Rus' sat quietly in its corner, no one noticed it at all. And even if they were considered evil, it was certainly not in the Middle Ages.
  5. +3
    5 January 2024 06: 30
    How did the witch trials go?

    Those who want to know about this should read the novel “The Velms of Eastwick” by John Updike (1984) or watch the film by George Miller, released in 1987. In addition, there was a musical in Moscow (2000), and in the Leningrad Bolshoi Drama Theater at the end of the 80s. There was a very boring play of the same name on, the premiere of which, in the 2nd row of the stalls, I managed to get into. Kirill Lavrov was sitting right in front of me, his bald head sparkling. I suddenly remembered Chekhov’s “The Death of an Official” and for more than three hours of the performance two feelings fought in me - to sneeze at her or not to start laughing out loud. But I remembered that St. Petersburg is the cultural capital and restrained myself.
    These kinds of witchcraft things happen even at plays about witches. wassat
    1. +3
      5 January 2024 08: 18
      In me, for more than three hours of the performance, two feelings were fighting - to sneeze... These are the kinds of witchcraft things that happen
      You just don’t carry a handkerchief or any mysticism with you. smile
      1. +3
        5 January 2024 09: 30
        You just don’t carry a handkerchief or any mysticism with you. smile

        I wear a scarf. And you re-read A.P. Chekhov. I meant him, not Anfisa.
        drinks
  6. +3
    5 January 2024 09: 22
    You can read about this topic in B. Konofalsky’s “Inquisitor” series; everything is described in detail - both the trial and the execution. It is clear that this is not a historical source, but it is impressive... Here is one episode.
    ****
    “Next came the poisoners and those evil women who brewed potions, there were five of them. Poisoners are the worst criminals, and death for such a crime is even more severe than for simple murder. Poisoners are boiled in boiling water, but the tribunal was merciful, the holy fathers are kind. They replaced boiling water with simple drowning. They brought a large tub for four hundred buckets, placed it under the scaffold, and right from it the executioners threw the bound women into the tub, head downwards. They held his legs and waited. As soon as the woman became quiet, they pulled her out and hung her right on the edge of the scaffold, like a rag on a nail, so that everyone could see, so that no one would doubt her death, and they took the other one and threw her into the water. And so on until everyone was drowned.”
  7. +4
    5 January 2024 11: 51
    Speaking of witches. When Johannes Kepler's mother was declared a witch, he appeared in court and achieved her complete acquittal. He was a great man.
    1. 0
      8 January 2024 12: 20
      The great man was.

      Great. And with connections. Proximity to the emperor (he was the official court mathematician and astronomer and earned money by compiling horoscopes for the nobility; emperors were not always distinguished by their generosity :)) played an important role in his arguments at the trial.
  8. BAI
    +3
    5 January 2024 13: 03
    allegedly made Voodoo dolls of the offspring of a local lord

    Did they know about Voodoo dolls in Scotland in the 17th century?
    1. 0
      5 January 2024 13: 08
      The lady admitted that she made toys from straw, pierced them with needles, and made cuts. Yes, the word Voodoo was not known then, but there were analogues to this procedure. That's why I wrote it like that
      1. BAI
        +3
        5 January 2024 15: 12
        How important it is to choose your words accurately
        1. Alf
          +3
          5 January 2024 21: 58
          Quote: BAI
          How important it is to choose your words accurately
  9. +2
    5 January 2024 18: 55
    The Scottish "voodoo doll", of course, delivered, but God bless him. Witchcraft or ritual dolls are found in almost all cultures.
    But regarding torture...
    On April 10, 1662, the Privy Council issued a proclamation prohibiting the use of torture as a means of extracting confessions from witches [68] unless specifically authorized by the council. [69] This resulted in a warning being often added to the fees. [70] In the case of Gowdy and Breadhead, the Council recommended that they be found guilty only if the confessions were given voluntarily without torture, that they were of sound mind and did not wish to die.

    And as a result, the Great Scottish Witch Hunt of 1661-1662 was the last. (there were five in total)
    1. Alf
      -1
      5 January 2024 21: 59
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      Scottish"

      Good evening ! Sorry for being off topic, but what books about Mecklenburg are you not a writer for?
      1. 0
        5 January 2024 22: 06
        Quote: Alf
        Sorry for being off topic, but what books about Mecklenburg are you not a writer for?

        Are you hinting at co-authorship?
        1. Alf
          0
          5 January 2024 22: 12
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Quote: Alf
          Sorry for being off topic, but what books about Mecklenburg are you not a writer for?

          Are you hinting at co-authorship?

          Yes, the Lord is with you! You just said that you didn’t write any of the books in this series.
          1. 0
            5 January 2024 22: 22
            Quote: Alf
            You just said that you didn’t write any of the books in this series.

            You misunderstood me..
            "The Princess of Mecklenburg" has a different main character. But it was me who wrote it.
            1. Alf
              0
              5 January 2024 22: 26
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              Quote: Alf
              You just said that you didn’t write any of the books in this series.

              You misunderstood me..
              "The Princess of Mecklenburg" has a different main character. But it was me who wrote it.

              Then I apologize, I just don’t like it when an author writes an excellent work, and then everyone who is not too lazy starts to continue. By the way, why then is the nickname Perumov on some books?
              1. +4
                5 January 2024 22: 38
                Quote: Alf
                By the way, why then is the nickname Perumov on some books?

                Nick Peruмov and Anton Peruнov two different people and authors)))
                Anton and I worked together for some time. A total of seven books. Two of them are in the Mecklenburg cycle (the last ones). But in any case, I am one of the authors. Not a single storyline, not a single dialogue was complete without me.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  5 January 2024 22: 42
                  Quote: Senior Sailor
                  Nick Perumov and Anton Perunov are two different people and authors)))

                  Nick Perumov and “nick” Perumov are different concepts, I apologize for not expressing myself clearly. Now everything is clear, thank you!
  10. +5
    5 January 2024 19: 07
    Quote: bya965

    However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

    Do you know why the Chinese slaughtered each other several centuries ago? So there the Buddhists and Confucians organized such celebrations of love of life that the crusaders and Hitler could only nervously smoke on the sidelines.
  11. +1
    5 January 2024 23: 21
    Quote: Mobik
    Quote: bya965

    However, all Abrahamic religions are very strict.

    Do you know why the Chinese slaughtered each other several centuries ago? So there the Buddhists and Confucians organized such celebrations of love of life that the crusaders and Hitler could only nervously smoke on the sidelines.

    And then there’s the list of references?
  12. +1
    6 January 2024 13: 48
    The Little Ice Age, crop failures, nothing to eat, so they got rid of the excess - they burned it, for one thing they consolidated, strengthened their faith.
  13. 0
    7 January 2024 18: 34
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    - [i]Witch! Burn it!
    - Padre, but she is very beautiful!
    - Okay, but then burn it anyway!

    This is how only the Loggards, Ursulas, Karlidelponts, etc. Gretas remained in Europe!


    Which padre?
    Scotland was already Protestant during this period.
  14. +1
    8 January 2024 01: 36
    Most records of executions have not survived to the present day.


    An interesting tradition remains. The British really don't like hanging ladders that you can walk under. It is believed that anyone who passes under the stairs will end up on the scaffold, or gallows.