England and France on the way to Trafalgar

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England and France on the way to Trafalgar
English and French admirals - participants in the Battle of Trafalgar: Pierre-Charles de Villeneuve, Horatio Nelson, Federico Gravina and Cuthbert Collingwood


Most recently we talked about the naval battle of Abukir, which took place on August 1, 1798 (first article, second article). On that day, Horatio Nelson's squadron practically destroyed the French fleet of Admiral de Bruet. The commander of the rearguard, Pierre-Charles de Villeneuve, avoided the battle - he took two battleships and two frigates away from Abukir. Now it’s the turn of the story about the Battle of Trafalgar, in which de Villeneuve again met with Nelson - already as commander of the united Franco-Spanish fleet.



War of the Second Coalition


England had been at war with the French Republic since 1792 and by 1802 had already lost two wars - the First and Second Coalitions. The main success of the British was that same victory in the naval battle of Abukir, after which Bonaparte’s Egyptian army was virtually doomed to defeat. Several victories won by Napoleon could not change the situation. A year later, Bonaparte left his troops, transferring command to Kleber. This general was killed by the Kurdish fanatic Suleiman al-Halabi. His successor, Jacques-François Menou, on August 31, 1801, signed a convention with the British on the abandonment of Alexandria and the return of French troops to France.

In that war, after a brilliant campaign in Italy, Suvorov had a chance to transfer the fighting to French territory. But Andre Massena, in a two-day battle, defeated the corps of Rimsky-Korsakov, with whom the great Russian commander was going to join, forcing him to abandon his plans. Despite all his efforts, Massena was unable to block the path of Suvorov’s army, but what he did was enough for him to be officially declared “Savior of the Fatherland” in France. The difficult transition of Suvorov's army ended on September 30, 1799. And on October 9, General Bonaparte, who left his army in Egypt, set foot on French soil - in Frejus. In Paris, he accepted Sieyès's offer to lead a military coup and a month later he dissolved the Council of Elders and the Council of Five Hundred, becoming First Consul.

After Russia left the war, dark days came for the states of the Second Anti-French Coalition. Napoleon defeated the Austrian troops in Italy, but the victories of the army of Jean-Victor Moreau were even more important. This general went to the front 10 days after his wedding with 19-year-old Creole Alexandrina-Louise-Eugenie Hulot d'Auzery (for the sake of marriage with her, he refused to become related to Napoleon, rejecting both the very “liberated” Caroline Bonaparte and the impeccable Hortense Beauharnais). The Army of the Rhine under the command of Moreau on December 3, 1800, in the decisive battle of Hohenlinden (east of Munich), defeated the troops of Archduke Karl Ludwig John of Hohenzollern. Among the distinguished generals were Grushi and Ney. It was this defeat that brought Austria to the brink of military disaster.

Experts put the Battle of Hohenlinden on a par with the Battle of Austerlitz, and Bonaparte himself called this victory of Moreau one of the greatest in the world stories.


Henri Frederic Schopin. Bataille de Hohenlinden

By the way, even earlier - after Moreau’s victories at Möskirch and Höchstadt, Napoleon wrote to him:

"I would gladly trade the purple robes of the First Consul for the epaulettes of the brigade commander under your command."

After the defeat at Hohenlinden, Austria was forced to enter into negotiations, which ended on February 9, 1801 with the signing of the Luneville Peace Treaty, which was very beneficial to France. The Batavian and Helvetic Republics, dependent on France, appeared; Austria also recognized the previously existing Ligurian and Cisalpine republics. The British still tried to continue fighting, but fighting alone was always against their rules. In March 1802, the Treaty of Amiens was concluded between France, Spain, the Batavian Republic and Britain. It was then that the English king George III abandoned the lilies in his coat of arms and the title of French king, which English monarchs had borne since the time of Edward III. One of the points of the agreement was the recognition by both parties of the Republic of the Seven Islands, which appeared after the Mediterranean campaign of the squadron of Fyodor Ushakov (as part of the War of the Second Coalition). The Greek population of this republic was pro-Russian, and it was quite possible to create a base for the Russian fleet here, but in Tilsit, Alexander I would agree to its occupation by France.

On the way to the War of the Third Coalition


In Amiens, Great Britain finally recognized the French Republic, but the contradictions between the parties were so great that a new clash was inevitable. Napoleon continued his expansionist policy, annexing the island of Elba to France, and Piedmont, Parma, Plaisance and Guastalla to the Italian (former Cisalpine) Republic, of which he himself was president. A protectorate was established over the Batavian and Helvetic Republics. And Great Britain refused to withdraw its troops from Egyptian Alexandria, Cape Town, and Indian cities belonging to France, to return Majorca to Spain, and Malta to the Johannite Order. In the dispute over Malta, Napoleon suggested that Alexander I, whose father was the Grand Master of the Hospitallers, become the arbitrator. Thus, Bonaparte clearly offered the Russian emperor to come to an agreement and peacefully restore control over Malta, which Paul I had already declared a province of the Russian Empire - in exchange, if not for an alliance with France, then at least for neutrality. However, Alexander, who came to power with active support from the British, did not respond to this proposal.

March 13, 1803 Napoleon concluded his conversation with the British ambassador with the words:

"Malta or war!"

The British responded by demanding the withdrawal of French troops from Switzerland and the Netherlands. France did not have enough funds to prepare for a new war, and therefore negotiations on the sale of Louisiana to the United States were intensified. However, it was not possible to sell Louisiana before the outbreak of hostilities.

On May 10, 1803, the English ambassador Charles Wiworth was recalled from Paris. British Prime Minister Henry Eddington ordered the arrest of all French and Dutch merchant ships that found themselves in English ports (including colonial ones). Napoleon responded by ordering the arrest of all English citizens on the territory of France and the states under its control. On May 16, 1803, the War of the Third Coalition began. By order of Napoleon, Mortier occupied Hanover, which belonged to the English kings, Saint-Cyr went to fight against the kingdom of the Two Sicilies, allied with Britain. It is important for us to note that in 1804 Spain took the side of France.

Bonaparte's "Napoleonic" plans


This time Napoleon decided to “beat the enemy on his territory” - to land an army on the English coast. He said:

“I only need three days of foggy weather - and I will be master of London, Parliament, the Bank of England.”

According to the drawn up plan, initially 1700 thousand people and 113 horses were supposed to land on 5600 ships and barges on the English coast. Following them, another 590 thousand soldiers and officers and 48 horses were supposed to sail on 3400 barges. The “English” army was formed, units of which were stationed in Boulogne-sur-Mer, near Bruges and in Montreux. The imagination of contemporaries was especially struck by the huge Boulogne camp, which consisted of four separate camps: Ambleteuse, Vimru, Left Bank and Right Bank. Their commanders were Lannes, Soult, Ney and Davout, respectively. General management was carried out by Minister of War Berthier.


Boulogne military camp, 1804 year. Engraving by an unknown author.

In addition to the barracks, hospitals, kitchens, laundries, repair shops, stables, parade grounds and shooting ranges were equipped. Bonaparte himself visited the Boulogne camp several times. By August 1805, the total strength of the English army reached, according to various estimates, from 180 thousand to 200 thousand people. It was possible to assemble about 2300 landing craft, and Admiral Brewis was appointed to command them.

English newspapers published funny caricatures of Bonaparte and his army.


Bonaparte's landing army swims in bath basins. Publisher W. Holland


What will happen to Bonaparte if he attacks Britain. Publisher P. Roberts


John Bull beats and kicks away the French who invaded Britain. Unknown author, early 19th century

However, King George III and his ministers understood that if at least half of Napoleon's army could land in England, they would have to urgently emigrate to Canada. On the southern coast, old fortifications were urgently modernized, the so-called “Martello towers” ​​were built, on which guns were placed; each of them had to be defended by a platoon of soldiers. Urgent measures were taken to form a new coalition: the Allied armies had to fight instead of the British and for their interests. And, it must be said, the British paid generously for the blood of others. According to the agreement with Russia dated March 30, 1805, they undertook to pay 100 million rubles for 12,5 thousand soldiers and a quarter of this amount to pay for mobilization activities. That is, the price of one soldier was 156 rubles 25 kopecks. And “revision souls” in Russia at that time cost from 70 to 120 rubles. So Alexander I then also made good money from the “sale” of his subjects. There were, of course, other reasons (the economic interests of Russian nobles interested in trade with England, the personal hostility of Alexander I to Bonaparte, who dared to hint at his participation in parricide), but the story about this is beyond the scope of this article.

Bonaparte's deceitful maneuver


The British fleet was much stronger than the French. And so Napoleon decided to lure him out of the English Channel, forcing him to chase the French ships. He wrote:

“The capture of London is quite real... Fifty ships that will leave from Toulon, Brest, Rochefort, Cadiz and the East will unite in Martinique... And while the British fleet will look for them near the Antilles and the Cape of Good Hope, our ships would unite at Boulogne and supply landings on the coast of England."

Vice Admiral Louis-René Latouche-Treville was supposed to lead the French fleet to the West Indies, but due to his death in August 1804, the operation had to be postponed for almost six months.

The new commander was Vice Admiral Pierre-Charles de Villeneuve, who, as we remember, at the Battle of Aboukir commanded the rearguard and, evading battle, brought 4 ships to France. His squadron left Toulon on March 29, 1805. It contained 11 battleships, 6 frigates and 2 sloops. In Cartagena they were joined by 6 Spanish battleships, commanded by Federico Gravina. Napoleon considered this admiral a more outstanding naval commander than Villeneuve. Gravina began serving in the navy as a midshipman in 1768 at the age of 12. In 1779 he received command of the San Luis xebec, in 1785 he led a small squadron operating against Algerian pirates, and in 1790 he became captain of a battleship of the first rank. In 1793, already a vice admiral, he studied naval tactics in British Portsmouth. From 1804 to 1805 was the Spanish ambassador to France, attended the coronation of Bonaparte. And in February 1805 he became commander of the Spanish Royal Navy.


Bust of Federico Gravina, Madrid, Naval Museum

Several British ships were sunk in the Caribbean Sea, but the British fleet did not leave the English Channel.


Caribbean expedition of Villeneuve's squadron

When returning to Europe, the Franco-Spanish fleet collided with the squadron of Vice Admiral Robert Calder at Brest on July 22. This battle was fought only by the Spaniards, who lost two ships. The French avoided the battle. Villeneuve led his ships to Cadiz, where they were blocked by the British.

Horatio Nelson on his way to Trafalgar


And what did de Villeneuve’s opponent, Horatio Nelson, do after the Abukir victory? From the article Naval battle of Abukir you must remember that after the victory in this battle, Emma Hamilton, the wife of the English envoy to the court of King Ferdinand IV of the Two Sicilies, took care of the wounded admiral. Then this famous romance broke out.


Emma Hamilton in a 1789 engraving


Lemuel Francis Abbott. Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1799

Returning to his homeland with the Hamilton couple in 1799, Nelson settled in the same house with them and continued his relationship with Emma, ​​who in 1801 gave birth to a daughter from him, who received the name Horace in honor of her father. However, officially this girl was considered the adopted daughter of the Hamilton family, Emma Hamilton and Horatio Nelson were recorded as her godparents. In April 1803, Emma's husband, Sir William, died, after which, in order to enter into a new marriage, Nelson unsuccessfully tried to divorce his wife. It soon became clear that William Hamilton’s entire fortune passed to the deceased’s nephew, Charles Greville, whose kept young Emma was for three years. The former lover, thanks to whose lessons the young prostitute turned into a beautiful lady, now kicked her out of the mansion she occupied, and Nelson gave his beloved woman his country house. Early in 1804, Emma gave birth to another daughter, who died in infancy. At this time, Emma began to play cards often, lost, got into big debts, and Battle Admiral Nelson was very poor - almost poor by the standards of London aristocrats. He continued to serve in the navy and on April 2, 1801, as the second flagship of the Baltic squadron of Admiral Hyde Parker, he “punished” Denmark for joining the “Union of Armed Neutrality”, which also included Russia, Prussia and Sweden. Parker intended only to blockade the Danish fleet in Copenhagen harbor, but Nelson insisted on an attack. The battle was fierce, with Nelson ignoring Parker's orders to withdraw the ships.


The Battle of Copenhagen in the painting by W. Sandler


Nelson in a portrait of Arthur William Davis. Pay attention to the green visor that doctors recommended to this admiral shortly before the Battle of Copenhagen: it was supposed to protect the right eye from the glare of the sea, which was damaged in June 1794 from stone fragments during the siege of the Corsican fortress of Calvi

The outcome of the battle had not yet been decided when Nelson addressed the Danes with a letter in which he actually threatened to deal with the captured and wounded Danish sailors:

“From the English brothers, to the Danes. Lord Nelson has no desire to fight the Danes, but if the shooting from the Danish ships continues, he will be forced to burn all the floating batteries he captured, without being able to save the lives of the brave Danes who defended their homeland on the batteries. Written on board His Majesty's ship "Elephant" April 2, 1801."

Denmark withdrew from the Union of Armed Neutrality and allowed the British fleet into the Baltic Sea. Admiral Parker was recalled, and Nelson led his squadron to Revel, where he hoped to find and destroy the now Russian warships. But the Revel squadron was transferred to Kronstadt, and Nelson did not dare to lead his ships along the narrow channel along the powerful forts. His honor was saved by the Russian aristocrats, who by that time had killed Paul I, and the government of the new Emperor Alexander was actively establishing ties with the British. Vice Admiral P.V. Chichagov, who arrived from St. Petersburg, informed Nelson that Alexander I “wishes to resolve all misunderstandings with England peacefully" The delighted British admiral replied that he had no intention of attacking Russian cities - he just wanted to replenish supplies of fresh water and food in Revel, wanted to salute the fortress and asked permission to go ashore. Without hesitation, he wrote to Count P. Palen:

“I am happy that I have the opportunity to assure Your Excellency of the completely peace-loving and friendly content of the instructions I received regarding Russia... I cannot express this better than by appearing in person with a squadron in Revel Bay or Kronstadt... By this I want to prove the friendly disposition that “, as I hope, with God’s help, will forever exist between our sovereigns ... I have no other intentions than the desire to express the deep respect that I have for the person of His Imperial Majesty.”

He failed to deceive anyone, and Palen replied:

“His Majesty has ordered me to inform you, my lord, that the only proof of the sincerity of your intentions will be the urgent removal of the fleet you command, and that no negotiations can take place with your court while its naval forces are in sight of our ports.”

Nevertheless, his squadron was accepted in Revel. After 4 days, Nelson left this city and soon met the frigate Lawton in the Baltic Sea, on which the British envoy Lord St. Helens was heading to St. Petersburg. The representative of London demanded not to interfere with the planned settlement of relations between England and Russia, and Nelson led his squadron to the west. After another 4 days, Russia and Sweden released the English ships detained in their ports, Alexander I even ordered assistance in repairing these ships.

And Nelson led a squadron cruising in the English Channel, which was supposed to intercept Napoleon's Boulogne fleet. The Mediterranean squadron was also under his command. He had a meeting with the combined Franco-Spanish fleet of de Villeneuve and Gravina, and a famous battle in which death and great glory awaited him. A few hours before his death, he wrote in his will:

“The only favor I ask from my Sovereign and from my homeland is concern for the fate of Lady Hamilton and little Horatia.”

In the next article we will continue our story and talk about the famous Battle of Trafalgar.
28 comments
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  1. 0
    5 January 2024 06: 05
    The only favor I ask from my Sovereign and from my homeland is concern for the fate of Lady Hamilton and little Horatia.”

    Lady Hamilton, Lady Hamilton. How she drank whiskey...
    (Once a popular song)

    Having heard this, if I may say so, “text,” I always imagined this action like this: Emma takes a faceted glass, fills it 2/3 full (lady no matter how) with whiskey, exhales deeply, drinks it in one gulp, snorts it with pickled cucumber, and then elegantly wipes tears, snot and lips with a snow-white lace handkerchief. wassat
    1. +6
      5 January 2024 09: 45
      It was Karachentsev who sang, and the text talked about the impression that a Hollywood film that was shown in the post-war years made on some teenager.
      Somewhere outside the window, as if overboard
      My childhood floats into the distance.
      Lady Hamilton, Lady Hamilton
      I'm your Admiral Nelson.
      How she waited, how she called,
      How she drank whiskey!
      Lady Hamilton, Lady Hamilton,
      You were in my life.

      In my opinion, an empty and vulgar song.
      1. +1
        5 January 2024 09: 51
        It was Karachentsev who sang,

        Not Karachentsev, but Malinin. I agree with everything else. drinks
        1. +2
          5 January 2024 10: 26
          Karachentsev also sang, I checked now - there are MP-3 recordings on the Internet
        2. +2
          5 January 2024 12: 42
          This song was first performed by Nikolai Karachentsov. However, the authors soon offered it to Alexander Malinin. History of the song at the link.
          https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/bahit/post404140741
          1. +2
            5 January 2024 14: 28
            Sergei Rogozhin also sang - a former auctioneer, then a member of the forum and a soloist, who then “mowed” as Michael Jackson
  2. +1
    5 January 2024 09: 42
    Nelson's letter to St. Petersburg is simply incomparable:
    I cannot express this better than by appearing in person, with a squadron, in Revel Bay or Kronstadt... By this I want to prove my friendly disposition,

    Now it’s about the same thing: peaceful US aircraft carriers are doing their best to demonstrate their “friendly disposition” to everyone and all that jazz.
  3. 0
    5 January 2024 10: 56
    The author of the second article in a row relishes the thesis about the underage prostitute Emma and her personal life. What is this for? But she and Nelson loved each other, and love purifies everything. In addition, Nelson knew everything about her past and did not attach any importance to it. So who are we to stir up someone else’s bed over and over again and moralize about fate? That's right, no one would take better care of their dirty laundry.
    1. +3
      5 January 2024 11: 25
      You can't erase a word from a song. And where is the savoring? Statement of fact. AND
      a teenage prostitute and turned into a beautiful lady
      , with whom the national hero of England fell in love - not everyone succeeds.
  4. 0
    5 January 2024 20: 15
    So Alexander I then also made good money from the “sale” of his subjects. There were, of course, other reasons

    The author knows how to turn everything upside down)))
    In fact, shifting the cost of preparing an army to an ally is not so stupid.
    Well, the calculations, of course... are a little naive. On the one hand, no one paid the landowners for recruits. so there is no reason to compare it with the price of a revision soul. On the other hand, a recruited man is not equal to a soldier. He needs to be trained, equipped, and this is also money, and a lot of it. Not to mention the fact that not all recruits became soldiers. Much of the “training” simply didn’t stick. Under Nikolai EMNIP the ratio is 1k3. It seems to be softer with Alexander...
    His honor was saved by the Russian aristocrats, who by that time had killed Paul I,

    Wow!!! Bravo!
    And then the English hire, who has just killed his king with English money, says to the English Admiral Nelson - get off the beach!
    Like your honor has already been saved...
    1. VLR
      +1
      5 January 2024 20: 39
      What surprises you? Nelson was ahead of the ambassador, who was going to the new emperor to restore relations. If they had not managed to withdraw the Revel squadron to Kronstadt, Nelson would have destroyed the Russian ships without entering into negotiations, and then Alexander would have had to maintain the alliance with Bonaparte. But there were no ships in Revel and the English admiral found himself in
      difficult situation. Climbing under the guns of the Kronstadt forts is not an option. To leave without a fight is to give your enemies a reason for ridicule. And then a messenger from Alexander arrives and says that the Russians already want peace. Nelson simply had a stone lifted from his soul. And what did the British ambassador feel when he saw Nelson’s squadron in the Gulf of Finland! I think that when talking with the admiral, he very often used English obscene expressions. The Briton arrived in St. Petersburg - and in 4 days he settled all the issues.
      1. +1
        5 January 2024 20: 52
        Quote: VlR
        Nelson simply had a stone lifted from his soul.

        Did he tell you about this?
        Quote: VlR
        And then a messenger from Alexander arrives and says that the Russians already want peace.

        Will you still decide for yourself, is Palen the English hire, or the man who sent the English into the forest?
        Quote: VlR
        What surprises you?

        This is the phrase -
        -
        His honor was saved by Russian aristocrats, who by that time had killed Paul I

        She's gorgeous!
        1. VLR
          +2
          5 January 2024 20: 57
          Somehow he didn’t “send” him very well: Nelson’s squadron entered Revel and stayed there for 4 days. And the situation was critical: a few shots at Revel on the orders of the brave, but far from political Nelson - and war with England. There's no time for politeness here. It is not surprising that both Alexander and Palen, and the British ambassador St. Eles, who was hurrying to Petersburg, wanted to quickly remove his squadron from St. Petersburg.
          1. 0
            5 January 2024 20: 59
            Quote: VlR
            several shots at Revolution

            I'm sorry? belay
            1. VLR
              +2
              5 January 2024 21: 00
              Yes, I already fixed it :)
              Almost immediately.
              As you probably understand, I’m writing from a smartphone, and my smartphone is “very literate” and is drawn to “correct mistakes.”
              1. 0
                5 January 2024 21: 13
                It’s a sin, I thought that we were talking about the “city of three revolutions”)))
                But I couldn't figure out how... request
                In general, I understand your desire to attach an English trace to the Palen conspiracy, but I cannot agree with this. The point is this:
                If the conspirators had been bribed by the Britons, the Revel pogrom would not have changed anything. They would wipe themselves off. But the fact of the matter is that they sincerely considered themselves patriots who stood for a just cause. And the honor of Nelson, as well as that of Great Britain, was the last thing they were interested in.
                1. VLR
                  +1
                  5 January 2024 23: 18
                  Find at least one traitor (and Palen betrayed the emperor who trusted him) who would not consider himself a “patriot standing for a just cause.” And he admitted that he betrayed him solely for money, a position, to save life, in the end, and not for ideological reasons. Kurbsky, who fled, abandoning the army entrusted to him by Ivan IV (as well as his wife and children, who were later released to him by the “bloody Moscow tyrant”), and Vlasov, who surrendered to the Germans, considered themselves patriots.
                  1. +1
                    6 January 2024 10: 30
                    You like to give strange examples that have nothing to do with the issue under discussion)))
                    Quote: VlR
                    Kurbsky, who fled, abandoning the army entrusted to him by Ivan IV (as well as his wife and children, who were later released to him by the “bloody Moscow tyrant”), and Vlasov, who surrendered to the Germans considered themselves patriots.

                    Kurbsky - absolutely not. With him, such a concept, let alone a word, did not exist. He exercised his feudal right to leave, because he believed that there was a completely non-illusory opportunity to join one of the “synodics” of the pious king. After which he served the Polish king.
                    Vlasov was captured and chose between death and treason. After which he served Hitler
                    The situation with Palen is completely different.
                    1. VLR
                      -1
                      6 January 2024 12: 55
                      To escape from the army entrusted to him is to exercise “his feudal right to leave”? No, this is betrayal. And what is the “right of exit” at that time? He hasn't been around for a long time. Already Vladimir Staritsky fled from Elena Glinskaya. And he returned after he was threatened with a church curse. What kind of church curse is there if there is a legal right to “exit”? But he gave in and thus pleaded guilty to treason.
                      Vlasov not only was captured, but surrendered himself - he came to the Germans and named himself, his position, his rank. I wrote in detail about him a long time ago in the magazine History in the article “The Man from the Mire.” A modern Vlasovite, candidate of historical sciences K. Aleksandrov, entered into a discussion with me; I can proudly say that in my response article I simply “smeared” him. And this was the time when Vlasov was almost rehabilitated; they already wanted to open a museum in his homeland. After these two articles, by the way, other publications began to thank me in writing for each material sent.
                      With Palen the situation is not different, but as old as the world. Traitors dress in different clothes, say different words, but their essence remains the same, has not changed from ancient times to our time.
                      1. 0
                        7 January 2024 10: 03
                        Taking into account the content of your message, the minus was given by a Russian Vlasovite or a Ukrainian Banderaite. Those, unfortunately, are registered here.
                      2. +1
                        7 January 2024 11: 24
                        Quote: VlR
                        And what is the “right of exit” at that time?

                        It was at that time that it still existed. Approximately until the end of the Time of Troubles.
                        Here is an interesting moment in our historiography: when a certain conditional boyar fled from Lithuania to us, he was undoubtedly a great fellow! When on the contrary, he is an equally unconditional traitor. request
                        Quote: VlR
                        Vlasov not only was captured, but surrendered himself

                        We have no prisoners. There are traitors to the motherland.
                        Quote: VlR
                        I can proudly say that in my response article I simply “smeared” it

                        Happy for you.
                        Quote: VlR
                        The situation with Palen is no different.

                        Completely different. He changed his oath to Paul this way. And that's bad. But this is not enough for you; you must completely smear it with tar. Declare an enemy mercenary. Like, I was flattered for the money. And you don’t disdain any arguments, no matter how absurd they may be.
                        Returning to what you wrote in the article. Can you imagine Kurbsky telling Stefan Batory that Pskov is a Russian city and you, Your Majesty, would go to Revel!
                        Well, or Vlasov said something similar to Hitler...
                        That's the difference!
                    2. +2
                      6 January 2024 13: 55
                      [/quote]Vlasov was captured and chose between death and treason. After which he served Hitler[quote]
                      - Vlasov officer, who took the oath to the Motherland. Agreeing to serve the enemy is definitely a betrayal, without options.
                      1. 0
                        7 January 2024 10: 07
                        Quote: Sergey Valov
                        Vlasov, an officer who took the oath to the Motherland. Agreeing to serve the enemy is definitely a betrayal, without options.

                        Read the oath to the USSR carefully. Maybe it will turn out that the entire army that allowed the collapse of the Union is traitors
                      2. 0
                        7 January 2024 11: 28
                        Quote from Kartograph
                        the entire army that allowed the collapse of the Union is traitors

                        request
                      3. 0
                        7 January 2024 10: 08
                        Quote: Sergey Valov
                        Vlasov, an officer who took the oath to the Motherland. Agreeing to serve the enemy is definitely a betrayal, without options.

                        Read the oath to the USSR carefully. Maybe it will turn out that the entire army that allowed the collapse of the Union is traitors
                      4. 0
                        7 January 2024 11: 26
                        Quote: Sergey Valov
                        Agreeing to serve the enemy is definitely a betrayal, without options.

                        That's it.
                        But the respected author and I, if you haven’t noticed, were not talking about him, but about Count Palen. What enemy did he serve?
  5. 0
    6 January 2024 13: 49
    “In 1179 he received command” - please correct.
    1. VLR
      +1
      6 January 2024 14: 18
      Yes, 1779, thanks, we'll fix it