Migration problems, or how to stick your head out of the sand and find a solution

Migration problems have been building up for many years. You can nod as much as you like at how crowds of citizens of Latin American countries are storming the southern border of the United States, at how old Europe is bursting at the seams from the dominance of illegal immigrants from the Middle East and Africa. But if you look more closely at what is happening in our country, it becomes clear that in recent years many of us have simply tried not to notice a similar problem. The painstaking work in the format of migration legislation was far from being in the first place among statesmen.

In the end, everything came down to a primitive formula: if migrants spend 15 hours a day working as laborers at construction sites, sweeping yards, delivering pizza, then everything seems to be fine, everything is economically profitable, politically presentable. But when illegal immigrants, and even fully legalized guests from the “sunny republics,” crowd attack Russian guys in Russian cities, we suddenly try to stick our heads out of the sand.

But they stuck it out, then what? You can be indignant in the kitchen, you can write comments online, demanding “everyone be expelled or shot.” But we need to understand the root of the problem. And the root of the problem is deep. It affects, among other things, the interests of moneybags, for whom it is easier to hire cheap labor from Central Asia, who will “row revenge” and so on, rather than invest in education, develop a labor protection system, and create jobs with decent pay for those citizens who live in Russia and want to work in Russia and for Russia. This is also a matter of compliance with the law, when it suddenly turns out that for our average Ivan he is one, but for a representative of the diaspora of an infinitely friendly (well, even slightly multi-vectored) country, he is different.

Nikita Mikhalkov raises and discusses the topic in his Besogon TV program:

Comments

[kakvastam]

As funny as it may seem, we need to create jobs and invest in education where poor, illiterate crowds are pouring in to us.
And it would be nice to abolish the rules that make the legal employment of a foreign worker much more profitable than a citizen of one’s own country.
But since power belongs to the capitalists, it’s not worth even dreaming about it.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: kakvastam

As funny as it may seem, we need to create jobs and invest in education where poor, illiterate crowds are pouring in to us.

under the USSR this was the case, but there is one “BUT”, it was the territory of a single state
Now takeo can only be done in one case, if the Russian ambassador to that country kicks open the door to the office of the head of this “state”

making the legal employment of a foreign worker significantly more profitable than a citizen of their own country.

the simplest salary should be higher than that of a local, a ban on working on patents, this is simply NOT BENEFITABLE FOR THE STATE and in the team there should be no more than 10-14 percent of the number of foreigners

[carpenter]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

under the USSR this was the case, but there is one “BUT”, it was the territory of a single state

How many people from Central Asia have you seen in the RSFSR, especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: carpenter

How many have you seen?

read not just one phrase but the whole thing, I didn’t write anywhere about crowds of Asians

[kakvastam]

The salary should be higher than that of a local

It is not the salary that should be higher, but taxes and fees on the same salary.
Working on “patents” is generally beyond good and evil.
Why are people scared, paying only a few thousand a year to the treasury for a patent, to receive the right to free education for their children and medical care?

[carpenter]

Quote: kakvastam

It is not the salary that should be higher, but taxes and fees on the same salary.

But that’s not the main thing, he let guest workers into the country for one year, and then sent them home, let those who have proven themselves come back for a year, but don’t give citizenship and don’t accept families of 6-7 people. Only one migrant worker. This was done even in the Baltic states before the refugees.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: kakvastam

It is not the salary that should be higher, but taxes and fees on the same salary.

I won’t say anything about patents, but in Moscow a patent is 4500 per month, personal income tax from 50 tons is 6500
but about salaries, you’re in vain that’s exactly how you decided the question, a foreigner MUST receive a salary higher than a local one

[carpenter]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

but about salaries, you’re in vain that’s exactly how you decided the question, a foreigner MUST receive a salary higher than a local one

Our guest worker must receive a salary no lower than the industry average.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: carpenter

Our guest worker must receive a salary no lower than the industry average.

Can I link to the law?

[alystan]

Vasilenko, Ukraine is not your place to kick doors.
Teach yourself how to live correctly.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

and you will learn to think and understand what is written, by the way, what does Ukraine have to do with it

[Anatoly Vertinsky]

It’s no use, educated and cultural workers from Central Asia are going to the EU, USA, South Korea. In this case, Russia will simply train people for these countries at its own expense.

[carpenter]

Quote: Anatoly Vertinsky

It’s no use, educated and cultural workers from Central Asia go to the EU, USA, South Korea.

Well, look at the schedule of foreigners who go to work in South Korea. There are few people from Central Asian countries, except for Uzbekistan.

[alystan]

And where are they running from Russia from the Northern Military District?
And without the SVO, “talented Russians” also “flowed” to the West, if anything.

Migration problems have been building up for many years.

What “long years” does the author write about if the problem arose after the collapse of the USSR?

[carpenter]

Quote: kakvastam

As funny as it may seem, we need to create jobs and invest in education where poor, illiterate crowds are pouring in to us.

Why should Russia do this? This should be done by the governments of their countries, but not Russia, in your opinion Russia owes everyone again, they are free.
But if they go to Russia, they must comply with Russian quality and Russian laws.
When Russia accepts workers “from there”, it must test their knowledge; I was forced to do this in Germany, Norway and Sweden (clearly not as a handyman in the wings)

[kakvastam]

Russia I don't owe anyone anything, but if it doesn't want to her climbed - be it as a carcass or as a scarecrow - poor illiterate savages, in her It is in our best interest to make sure there are fewer of them.
If thermonuclear bombing is considered too costly, you can try to either reduce the motivation of potential occupiers or make them a little less illiterate.
Still, it is better to deal with problems at distant approaches.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: carpenter

Why should Russia do this? This should be done by the governments of their countries, but not Russia, in your opinion Russia owes everyone again, they are free.

you are right, Russia doesn’t owe anyone anything, but there is a problem and it is Russia that will have to solve it, since the local bays won’t solve it for sure, it’s not their problem
there are two solutions, the first is a complete closure of the border (I’ll say right away, it’s practically impossible) and the second is competent control of migration and, as they correctly suggested, jobs in the republics
the second method also requires a tough conversation with the local elites and our merchants, but it is the second that in the future can give good results and not only in migration policy

[alystan]

As funny as it may seem, we need to create jobs and invest in education where poor, illiterate crowds are pouring in to us.

Indeed, they taught their own people everything, or rather taught them to live happily, like Morgenstern or Xolidayboy.

[Tailpipe]

It would be much easier and cheaper to simply close the borders to these countries. And in general there are many solutions, besides investing in other people's “independent countries”. For example, visa regime, shift work, special tax for employers, etc.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: kakvastam

As funny as it may seem, we need to create jobs and invest in education where poor, illiterate crowds are pouring in to us.

This has already been done in the USSR, and what helped? Moreover, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, those who treated Asians, taught them, created jobs for them, were robbed, raped, and killed with special pleasure by our “brotherly” Central Asian friends in the 90s. All this is taboo in our media.
Therefore, only visa regime. A work visa is given for a certain period and only to an employee of a certain in-demand specialty. The employer of such an employee bears full responsibility for him and provides him with a bed in the dormitory at the enterprise. Citizenship is granted only to Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and representatives of the peoples that are part of the Russian Federation and returning to the Russian Federation.

[My address]

Russia's problems are not that we cannot restore order, support our compatriots, put our enemies in their place, feed the hungry, caress and warm the orphaned and wretched. And the fact is that the rich just can’t get drunk

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: My address

And the fact is that the rich just can’t get drunk

there is only one way out, but I’m afraid Russia won’t survive it

[Anatoly Vertinsky]

This is by no means a sabotage from the very top, instead of the development of production automation. Russia does not need 300 million people, as some are trumpeting from the stands; the country needs to focus on robotics.

[Volodin]

Quote: Anatoly Vertinsky

The country needs to focus on robotics.

Robotics is, of course, wonderful. But someone else has to lay bricks, empty bins, dig trenches. For some reason, more and more often in large cities, as individual gentlemen are trying to tell us, “Russians do not go to these jobs or do so reluctantly, and therefore there is no way without migrants.” But there are many cases when entire business sectors in cities are crushed by illegal immigrants

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Volodin

For some reason, more and more often in large cities, as individual gentlemen are trying to tell us, “Russians do not go to these jobs or do so reluctantly, and therefore there is no way without migrants.”

But somehow during the USSR they managed without them, and it was clean and they didn’t give up. And now, without Gasters, we will all be in the mud. Paradox or capitalism.

[nickname7]

But somehow in the USSR they managed without them

During the union, we ourselves had to go to the potatoes, not everyone liked it. Capitalism allows schoolchildren and students to be freed from working in the fields by importing labor from poorer countries.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

For the sake of truth, SH is not an indicator, and even where a hundred people used to work, now 10 people can handle it
but janitors, builders, workers in factories, as in the USSR, were not imported from the SA

[Danila Rastorguev]

First, automate the porn industry. Until robots come to brothels, there is little work for them in factories, even if they are free.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Danila Rastorguev

First, automate the porn industry.

launched a search for your phrase "automation of the porn industry"
result:
The Russian company Elecard Devices, a developer of digital TV solutions, has come up with an initiative to support the porn industry, which is experiencing a decline due to the crisis. Companies producing adult content will be able to use Elecard solutions free of charge for several months.

Tomsk developers from Elecard Devices, manufacturers of software solutions for the digital TV industry, launched a campaign in support of the porn industry, which, like many other industries, is experiencing the negative impact of the global financial crisis. The essence of the company's initiative is that over the next four months, any company related to the production of video content for adults can use software from Elecard without paying the cost of licenses.

Digisexuals are people who use advanced technologies in sex and relationships, as well as those whose sexual identity is directly dependent on technology - they do not require other people for sex.

so you are behind the times

[carpenter]

Quote: Anatoly Vertinsky

Russia does not need 300 million people, as some are trumpeting from the stands; the country needs to focus on robotics.

And there are so many people in the outback of Russia who do not have a job or are interrupted from time to time. But if a Russian tries to find a job in Russia, he gets a kick in the ass, but an Uzbek gets hired right away. Yes, and try for a Russian who lived in the Baltic states or in Central Asia to get a passport in Russia, this will be a problem for years, but a Central Asian will receive it within six months.

I’m a pure Russian from Narva, where there are 95% Russians and we speak everything in Russian. I studied in a Russian school. I took the Russian language test in Ivangorod and didn’t pass, but the Tajiks and Uzbeks, “I don’t understand yours,” passed.
That's how it was 20 years ago. After that, I didn’t try anymore, and the desire was gone, I’m already 53 years old, my son is in St. Petersburg, and I’m here. And everything turned out well, I’m nearby, walk across the bridge in 30 minutes and I’m in Russia for three months.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: carpenter

try for a Russian who lived in the Baltics or Central Asia to get a passport in Russia, this is a problem for years

I won’t argue about work, I arrived in the Kaliningrad region from Almaty on March 8, 2009, in September of the same year I had a Russian passport in my hands

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I won’t argue about work, I arrived in the Kaliningrad region from Almaty on March 8, 2009, in September of the same year I had a Russian passport in my hands

It’s easier in KLD, but I moved from Tallinn to St. Petersburg. I have a youngest son in KLD.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: tihonmarine

It's easier in KLD

than?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: carpenter

I’m a pure Russian from Narva, where there are 95% Russians and we speak everything in Russian. I studied in a Russian school. I took the Russian language test in Ivangorod and didn’t pass, but the Tajiks and Uzbeks, “I don’t understand yours,” passed.

Even though I am a Guran, born in Russia, in Transbaikalia, I had the same problems, only in St. Petersburg, where they looked at me like a louse. Shouldn’t you know, but I was the first, and you didn’t believe.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: tihonmarine

where they looked at me like I was a louse

I'm sorry, but that's how they set themselves up

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Anatoly Vertinsky

Russia does not need 300 million people as some are trumpeting from the stands

Well, firstly, it’s not fashionable to robotize everything, and secondly, what are you going to do with your freed hands?!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

, and secondly, what are you going to do with your freed hands?!

Are you serious? A good owner has no free time, because there is always something that needs to be done. He only thinks about what needs to be done first. If the government is the owner of the state, then there can be no unemployment in principle. Because you can never redo all the work. Unemployment in a state is an indicator of government incompetence or laziness.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Kindergarten
Apparently, you are not even able to lead one person, let alone an enterprise, much less a state
first you will need to resettle a lot of people, is there money for this?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Apparently you are not able to manage even one person, let alone an enterprise

Alas, but your shot is in the “milk”. For those who don't know - to the sky.

[vvnab]

Russia does not need 300 million people, as some are trumpeting from the stands; the country needs to focus on robotics.

There is one caveat. To make YOUR robotics you need 500 million! ))

[Evgeny_Sviridenko]

What can robotics do without people? To service one robot you still need several qualified workers. Whole teams are again needed to develop robotics. Well, as has already been written here, there are many more professions where you can’t do without a person. For example, to defend the Motherland...

[Maxim Shalak]

It's time to allow the carrying of weapons and remake the law on self-defense

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Maxim Shalak

It's time to allow the carrying of weapons and remake the law on self-defense

Yeah, they distributed weapons in Ukraine, and now they are silent, but they know what came of it. They are silent!

[Don Analyst]

We must understand that these are citizens of a foreign country, not Russian national minorities, not Russian Muslims.
These are people brought up and raised in another country, in a different culture, in a different religious environment - mono-religious and, as a rule, more radical religiously!

[Don Analyst]

As a rule, visitors have no tolerance for other religions. They continue to behave as if they were in a monoreligious state - they grew up that way, they were brought up that way. This is the norm for them.

[carpenter]

Quote: Don Analyst

As a rule, visitors have no tolerance for other religions.

As the state receiving foreigners has set itself in relation to religion, so it will be. Russia took the European system, where you can do whatever you want, and that’s what it got.
At the same time, this is not allowed in Japan, and even in South Korea - come and work, but forget about religion, but maybe in China this is possible, although there are about 1 million immigrants in China. ?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Don Analyst

As a rule, visitors have no tolerance for other religions.

So they came for money, not to live. And if they live by their own rules, they sense the weakness of power.

[Vita vko]

Quote: Don Analyst

As a rule, visitors have no tolerance for other religions.

Migrants in their countries in the early 90s after independence fell on them, the first thing they did was gather in a crowd and expel all Russians from their countries, and those who did not want to leave were persecuted by the local Nazi police, they were beaten and killed, sometimes entire families. And Yeltsin didn’t really care about this.
Now these people come to Russia and, out of their habit, believe that in the areas where they settled they can act towards the Russians in the same way as they did to us in their homeland.
Religion has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's all about ordinary greed and Russophobia.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Don Analyst

We must understand that these are citizens of a foreign country, not Russian national minorities, not Russian Muslims.

You understand this, but not the rulers and moneybags.

[Danila Rastorguev]

Free labor is free because the locals who have known them since childhood would rather shut down their business than hire such a neighbor. And abroad it is a headache for the state, which is responsible for the low crime rate in cities.

[Don Analyst]

Russian Muslims do not have the right to use visiting Muslims as a battering ram against the peoples of other faiths in Russia.

[Don Analyst]

Moreover, Russian Muslims do not have the right to look for Jews at the airport or in an airplane turbine.
Today you are looking for someone, tomorrow they may also be looking for you - there is a Russian law to prevent this from happening!

[All_Good]

Eventually you will deal with demographics. Yesterday, I think, this issue was discussed in the Public Chamber. A reduction of 10 million Russians is possible within just a few decades. And again we started talking about payments for children, benefits, subsidies, protection and other nonsense. And the fact that it is necessary to create a stable economic situation in the country, not to lower the ruble by multiples, not to fight every 20 years, this directly throws us into demographic holes, no one wants or can understand. And most importantly, at the top I just don’t know what to do next and how to solve this situation. The position of observers to a gradual catastrophe has simply been chosen

[Stinging Nettle]

These are all the right words, but about nothing. The authorities have made their choice, and not in our favor.

[Vladimir Shchennikov]

We need to start with entrepreneurs who use the labor of emigrants. They must mechanize labor, working conditions and living conditions of their workers. For every shovel and crowbar, an entrepreneur must pay a huge tax, because... he does not want to increase productivity. Then a Russian will go to work for such “mercenaries”...

[Fintiflushkin]

Quote: Vladimir Shchennikov

We need to start with entrepreneurs who use the labor of emigrants. They must mechanize labor, working conditions and living conditions of their workers. For every shovel and crowbar, an entrepreneur must pay a huge tax, because... he does not want to increase productivity. Then a Russian will go to work for such “mercenaries”...

This was in the fall of 2018. I talked with the foreman of the janitors, introduced myself as Shukhrat, from Uzbekistan, well educated and well-mannered.
From his story: he came to Russia because there is no work in his homeland, here he works as a janitor, a senior. The salary is 31000 rubles per card, but the card is with the boss from the management company, the boss himself takes off the entire salary and gives Shukhrat either 21000 rubles, or 25000 rubles, and takes the rest into his pocket.
- How can you live on that kind of money? - I ask.
- We earn extra money, we take on any job; We save on housing - almost 30 people live in a rented two-room apartment, it’s cheaper.
Naturally, we let the district police officer know that many people have problems with registration.
Question: will this same “entrepreneur” from the management company and the district police officer “mechanize labor, working conditions and living conditions of their employees”? Are they motivated by these good intentions?

[vvnab]

We need to start with entrepreneurs who use the labor of emigrants. They have to...

Entrepreneurs do not owe anything until there is a corresponding law. So this state first “must”...

[Reader 2013]

Not a single child dared to walk in Moscow 10 years ago, but now, defiantly, on every playground,
And it's not just clothes, it's a challenge like fuck off

[Fintiflushkin]

"Migration problems, migration problems." What exactly are the problems? Make everyone equal before the law - that's all the problem. After all, is the problem that people come to earn money in Russia? - No it's okay. The problem is ethnic crime, ethnic groups. And the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, and the Russian National Guard deal with crime. So what's up? Let them catch the bandits and punish them according to the law. Or, it turns out, they don’t catch it? So then we should not discuss migrants here, but the law enforcement agencies - why they are doing a poor job of fighting migrant crime.

[ivan2022]

How exactly can we make everyone “equal before the law”?
Is it written somewhere in Russian laws that there are special laws for Russians?

Just saying that everyone should do their job and not break the laws is not necessary. This was explained to all of us back in elementary school.

[APASUS]

The interests of a citizen and a businessman are different; if an official gets involved, then the citizen loses on all counts.
There is only one way out - painstaking, daily compliance with the law, and not everything is smooth here, money is everything
We have wild capitalism, in its most primitive stage of development.

[Ivan Mak_2]

It was important for someone that not cultured, hardworking, peace-loving and religiously tolerant Koreans or Chinese come to Russia, but illiterate and limited, but pumped up with the ideas of extremist movements of Islam, residents of Central Asian villages, who, because of this, are unable to either understand or accept the values ​​and culture of the indigenous population of Russia. Their presence on the same territory with us will bring nothing but conflicts in the long term. Their mentality is such that where at least a hundred of them gather, their diaspora necessarily begins to manifest itself in the form of pressure on the local authorities. But this was not enough for some, and they were allowed to go to our house with their families. And the culmination is permission for them to take Russian citizenship. This is the bottom.

[Reader 2013]

I don’t know the Koreans, but the Chinese are a so-so audience, I’ve never seen a more vile nation

[Maks1995]

It doesn’t matter what the oligarchs and officials say, so it will be.
The problem has been discussed for a long time, deputies are promoting it less, but officials both earlier and this year openly declare - we’re taking, we’re taking, we’re taking... we must, we must... we give citizenship, we give, we give...

In any case, the opinion of the oligarchs - the owners, for example, of Magnit - will outweigh the opinion of any "experts" and pensioners...

[ivan2022]

Saltykov - Shchedrin predicted back in the 19th century in “The History of a City” - the end of a society of serfs controlled by tyrants and eccentrics.....

Then it was a shame to be like that, but today a Russian person will look and say: “Even in Europe there are migrants, but God just told us to.”

The ruling class of slaves are exactly the same slaves, only their Master is in the West. This has been the case since the 18th century and continues in the 21st. And you can’t live without Master!