Expedition to the ancestors. Finds on the "Bellied Hill"

91
Expedition to the ancestors. Finds on the "Bellied Hill"
View of the Gobekli Tepe excavations


“And Samuel took one stone, and set it between Mizpah and Shen, and called it Aben-ezer, saying, The Lord has helped us to this place.”
7 Kings 12: XNUMX

Migrants and migrations. Today we will digress from the problems of the ancient Egyptians and again turn to the topic... stones. Stones that in the past people piled up for unknown purposes in various places, and which today are called dolmens, menhirs and cromlechs, and in general - megaliths. And there is a certain time frame in which they did this strange thing - not earlier and not later. But, as always, there are no rules without exceptions. Namely, a place that is not only uncharacteristic of a megalithic culture, but it also does not fit it in time! And, by the way, no one still knows why. We will talk about a unique place called Gobekli Tepe, which translated from Turkish means “Bellied Hill”.




Excavations under the roof

Today it is a UNESCO monument...


First, let's see what is known for sure about this place today. First of all, it was discovered in 1963, but its value was realized only in 1994, and excavations there began a year later. In 2018, Göbekli Tepe was included in the UNESCO World Heritage List, which certainly speaks for itself. Moreover, as of 2021, only about 5% of the territory has been excavated there. And we can only guess what will happen when 95% of the excavations there are covered...

During the excavations, it was possible to find out that people lived here from about 9500 and at least until 8000 BC. e. That is, in the Neolithic era, and not just a Neolithic, but a pre-ceramic Neolithic. And it was there that massive stone columns were discovered. In terms of time, they are the oldest of all known megalithic structures in the world. Moreover, many of them are decorated with reliefs depicting wild animals and people, which gives archaeologists a rare opportunity to study the iconography of this era. The territory of the settlement itself, about eight hectares, is densely covered with the remains of domestic buildings, Neolithic cisterns carved from stone, and there is also a quarry for stone extraction. It is interesting that the first permanent settlements appeared precisely at this time, but megalithic buildings were not typical for it, especially near housing. Moreover, it is interesting that in the Gobekli-Tepe region there is no clear evidence of agricultural activity, but it was agriculture in all other places that fed the people of the megalithic culture.


Here they are - the legendary “circles” of Gobekli Tepe

According to the archaeologist Klaus Schmidt, who discovered this settlement, it was the oldest sanctuary in the world, the world's first stone temple, which was used by nomadic hunter-gatherers, and its permanent inhabitants were... clergy. He also wrote that they were deliberately buried for ritual purposes. But recent stratigraphic studies, which he, naturally, could not have known about, showed that they were filled up by landslides, and then restored more than once. Moreover, it should be noted that although this place is considered unique, stone steles, albeit of a simpler form and without bas-reliefs, were found here and in other places, including Chayenu. That is, stones “on the butt” in this area in ancient times were also placed in other places. It’s just that in Gobekli Tepe their installation is very “cultivated”, so to speak, and, moreover, is of a massive nature.

What do paleoclimatology and archaeozoology say?


Paleoclimatology has revealed that the climate in this area at that time was warmer and more humid than it is now. And rains were not uncommon, which caused mudflows to roll down from the mountains. All around were meadows with wild grains, including wheat and barley. The grasslands were home to herds of wild herbivores, including gazelles, who may have passed by the site on their seasonal migrations from north to south and back again. There were no forests nearby, but individual pistachio and almond trees grew, as evidenced by the finds of corresponding charcoal.

All this suggests that the inhabitants of Gobekli Tepe were hunter-gatherers, but they already supplemented their diet with early types of domesticated cereals. It is possible that they were already sedentary for part of the year. In any case, the finds of mortars and pestles indicate that grain processing took place here, and this clearly requires settling down, even if only temporarily. Well, archaeozoological finds indicate to us that the inhabitants of Gobekli Tepe had a large-scale hunt for gazelles, which began in mid-summer and continued until the onset of autumn. Residents obtained drinking water from drainage canals, which filled cisterns with rainwater. Their capacity was at least 150 cubic meters, that is, quite large. Today there are no underground water sources, but in those wetter times the groundwater level was much higher, so there may well have been some here. Moreover, new radiocarbon dating established the absolute chronology of this place - from 9500 to 8000 BC. e.


Stones with carved images

How long did it take to build it?


It turns out that this complex took a very long time to build. In eight successive stages that took about 1500 years. The earliest phase consisted of the construction of the first outbuildings and the first "circles" of vertically placed stone blocks.

At the second stage (this is already the beginning of the XNUMXth millennium BC), the fences or circles, which archaeologists call AD, were completed. After which new walls were erected, including the first T-shaped monoliths. Other circular structures were also built.

Stages 3-5 were again associated with the construction of rectangular (domestic) structures on the northern and western slopes of Gobekli Tepe. The old walls were repaired and new ones were added. Stone benches were placed along the inner sides of the walls of the second stage. But then a landslide occurred, which caused serious damage to fence D. People thought and built a stone terrace to prevent landslides in the future. But nature turned out to be stronger, and a secondary landslide at the end of the XNUMXth millennium buried fence D.

In phases 6 and 7 (late XNUMXth–early XNUMXth millennium BC), Building G and the “lion pillar building” were built, followed by another terrace wall to prevent landslides.

The last, 8th stage was the most “uninteresting”. The “temple” was abandoned, and small dwellings were built in its place, most likely having nothing to do with the ancient complex.


Stone boar

If you look at the excavations from above...


If we look at the Gobekli Tepe structures from above, we will see round fences A, B, C and D and also the remains of several rectangular buildings. The diameter of the round structures varies from 10 to 30 m. The most amazing are the T-shaped columns, evenly spaced inside thick internal walls, which are made of rough stones. As many as four such structures have been excavated, with a total of almost 200 stone pillars. They didn’t have to be dragged far: the quarry where they were cut down is located about 100 meters from the place where they were installed. Flint tools were used in the work. Today these columns are the oldest known megaliths in the world!

What is completely unknown and what can only be guessed at is whether these stone circles had a roof or not? The reliefs decorating the columns depict lions, bulls, wild boars, foxes, gazelles and donkeys, as well as snakes, spiders and birds, usually vultures. Interestingly, both in Çatalhöyük and in Jericho.


Another boar...

What are the carved figures silent about?


There are also images of humanoid figures in Gobekli Tepe. The T-shaped pillars depict human hands as well as loincloths, which is quite amazing. It is unknown what such… “whimsical” images were intended for and what purpose they served. In any case, this is clearly a cult, and a cult of what, we will most likely never know.

The floors in the “temples” are either leveled rock from which pedestals were cut for a pair of central T-shaped columns. Or is it compacted lime.


T-shaped stone

Later fences are already rectangular in shape, but T-shaped columns are also present here, that is, the function of the structure itself has not changed, although the external fence is different. The circular structures date back to 9000 BC. BC, but the limestone floors in the rectangular buildings give us dates between 8800 and 8000 BC. e. That is, the rectangles were built later. Moreover, usually T-shaped pillars up to 1,5 meters high are located in the center of the room. Fierce lions are depicted on two pillars. Therefore, the room where they were excavated was called the “building on lion pillars.”


"The Angry Lion"

In general, Gobekli Tepe is such an interesting place that it is simply impossible to tell about it in one material.

To be continued ...
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  1. +8
    23 October 2023 05: 13
    Here, on the top of GobekliTepe, man’s path to culture and writing began ©. The author did not note what kind of people they were? Or rather, proto-people. I searched - and, alas, I didn’t find it either. And this discovery will probably be more serious than Troy...
    1. +8
      23 October 2023 05: 29
      Quote: Luminman
      The author did not note what kind of people they were?

      I read an article by a Turkish “scientist”, he claims that these were proto-Turks. For some reason, reading it immediately made me happy wink
      1. +8
        23 October 2023 06: 20
        Apparently all nations have their own Alexander Samsonovs and others like them.
        I remember one of the “falcopus” in the history of one of the nations, walking on its own like a stray cat, began “taking bicycles”!!!
        1. +3
          24 October 2023 14: 45
          The monument contains a complex with ancient megalithic architecture (Dietrich L. et al. 2019, p. 4). His research began in 1994 by the Istanbul branch of the German Archaeological Institute in collaboration with the Sanliurfa Museum. During the excavations of Göbekli Tepe, tools of various types were found, characteristic of nearby and more distant contemporary settlements, such as Nevali Chori, Chayonu, Tell Abr, Mureybit, Djerf el-Ahmar, Tell Qaramel, El Khiam, Aswad , Nemrik. The presence of such a variety of tools and the concentration of a significant number of megalithic symbolically designed buildings for public purposes allowed K. Schmidt to make the assumption that Göbekli Tepe for several centuries was a cult center for regular meetings of representatives of communities living within a radius of approximately 200 km (Schmidt 2000; Schmidt 2011, pp. 124, 245-249).
          The period in which Göbekli Tepe was built is referred to as the so-called Pre-Pottery Neolithic (9600 - 8000 BC). This complex was associated with the Early Neolithic cultures of the Levant and Northern Mesopotamia (for more details, see: Schmidt 2011; Kornienko 2021). During the noted period, the production of vessels from baked clay was not yet widespread, although ceramic figurines of people and animals were already being made in some settlements. Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA) buildings are generally round in plan, while Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) buildings are characterized by a rectangular plan. The lower III layer of Göbekli Tepe belongs to the PPNA; it is represented by megalithic round-plan buildings for religious purposes (diameter from 10 to 30 m), decorated with T-shaped pillars (Fig. 1). The later cultural layer II, attributed to the PPNB period, is characterized by smaller buildings with a rectangular layout, sometimes decorated with T-shaped pillars. Göbekli Tepe was abandoned around 8000 BC. No traces of domesticated plants and animals were found in the layers of this monument, however, in the contemporaneous neighboring settlements of the Middle Euphrates Valley, whose representatives most likely visited Göbekli Tepe, evidence of the cultivation of plants in the PPNA layers was recorded (Kornienko 2018b). At the same time, the significant presence of remains of wild cereals in all layers of Göbekli Tepe is confirmed by analysis of phytoliths and a large number of grain grinders discovered. Standardization in the production and use of the different types of grating stones found also suggests large-scale grain processing at the site (Dietrich L. et al. 2019, p. 25).
      2. 0
        25 October 2023 03: 48
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        I read an article by a Turkish “scientist”, he claims that these were proto-Turks.

        Well, of course, who else! Proto-Turks, they will be cooler than the ancient Ukrainians! They will all be surpassed only by the ancient Tartars from ancient Tartary! laughing
  2. +9
    23 October 2023 05: 28
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thank you very much for the excursion to Pot-bellied Hill! Reading the lines of the article and looking at the illustrations for it I received sincere pleasure.
    Good morning and fruitful day to everyone, with sincere respect Vlad!
    1. +4
      23 October 2023 07: 07
      I join Vlad’s good owls! Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much for your enormous work! May everyone have a wonderful day today!
    2. +7
      23 October 2023 07: 49
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Thank you very much for the excursion to Pot-bellied Hill! Reading the lines of the article and looking at the illustrations for it I received sincere pleasure.

      I tried. I promised a long time ago. Good day to you and others too. Today I’m going to the archive for the continuation of the “unknown wars”, otherwise they haven’t happened for a long time.
  3. +9
    23 October 2023 06: 35
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    Very interesting.
    Read. And there is only one thought - how fleeting civilizations are.

    People change addresses
    They move, they separate,
    But only autumn forests
    They remain in this world.


    And the forests don’t stay that long.
    1. +4
      23 October 2023 11: 18
      Quote from Korsar4
      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

      Very interesting.
      Read. And there is only one thought - how fleeting civilizations are.

      People change addresses
      They move, they separate,
      But only autumn forests
      They remain in this world.


      And the forests don’t stay that long.

      Fifteen thousand years is an excellent indicator. Not many modern states can boast of this.
      Hello, Sergey!
      1. +5
        23 October 2023 13: 21
        Hello Vladislav!

        What is our country’s starting point?
        1. +4
          23 October 2023 19: 11
          Quote from Korsar4
          Hello Vladislav!

          What is our country’s starting point?

          Yes, Sergei, you don’t like cats!!!
          We take a calculator, if it is monarchical then from the calling of the Varangians to Rus' 862; if - Orthodox, then from the baptism of Rus' -988; on the accounts of the historian and lawyer there will be - 1480 (liberation from the Tatar-Mongol yoke (standing on the Ugra); the communists (led by Tatra) will write on transport workers - 1917, I won’t be surprised that there will be a couple of “hamsters" who will remember about - 1991.
          My personal opinion is that the self-identification of the nation began under Princess Olga and her son Svyatoslav. Finally, we as a country have acquired the attributes of power institutions under the name of Yaroslav the Wise. Having lost our sovereignty during the period of the Mongol yoke, we returned it in 1480-1481. Somewhere like this.
          1. +4
            23 October 2023 19: 43
            I don't ask easy questions.

            Let there be Rurik.
            Or at least Olga.

            You can't throw away what happened.
            And what is dear to the heart.

            And starting from 1991 means abandoning almost everything previous.

            We won't succeed, even based on our date of birth.
            1. +1
              23 October 2023 22: 00
              I remember at one time we even had such a crazy holiday - Independence Day...
              1. +3
                23 October 2023 22: 15
                Would you be very surprised if it exists?

                But Moscow’s independence from Kyiv and Minsk is strong.

                Life is easier for the city. It rarely resets to zero.

                They can abandon it.

                From the life that was raging here
                From the blood that flowed here
                What survived, what came to us?
                Two or three mounds, visible as you approach...

                Yes, two or three oaks grew on them,
                Spread and wide and bold.
                They show off, they make noise, and they don’t care,
                Whose dust, whose memory they dig their roots.

                Nature to know does not know about the past,
                Our ghost years are alien to her,
                And before her, we dimly realize
                Ourselves are just a dream of nature.

                Alternately all of their children,
                Completing your feat is useless,
                She greets her equally
                An all-consuming and peaceful abyss.


                Tyutchev about Vshchizha.
          2. +2
            23 October 2023 23: 34
            My personal opinion is that the self-identification of the nation began under Princess Olga and her son Svyatoslav.

            I doubt something.. It’s unlikely that the Novgorodians, Galicians and Polotsk residents, even in the 13th century, considered themselves a single nation.. No - of course they were aware of kinship, but no more..
            1. 0
              25 October 2023 04: 14
              Quote: paul3390
              I doubt something.. It’s unlikely that the Novgorodians, Galicians and Polotsk residents, even in the 13th century, considered themselves a single nation.. No - of course they were aware of kinship, but no more..

              So the concept of a nation, in its modern understanding, was formed only in the 19th century.
          3. 0
            25 October 2023 04: 07
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            My personal opinion is that the self-identification of the nation began under Princess Olga and her son Svyatoslav.

            Wow belay Strongly! That is, the concept of a nation was formed in the early Middle Ages? You are making revolutionary progress! Screw all historical science! Are you planning to write a dissertation on the topic? wink
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Having lost our sovereignty during the period of the Mongol yoke, we returned it in 1480-1481.

            And who lost sovereignty during the Mongols? What public education? Can you give the name of the State?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. +4
    23 October 2023 06: 38
    Hello Vyacheslav Olegovich. In the penultimate photo, a figurine of something like a lizard is carved on the bottom stone. It is carved skillfully and voluminously, and does not fit in with the expressive but primitive other figures and images. What do they think about this? And one more thing - were traces of paintings, dishes, tools, household items found, and are there any burials in the area?
    1. +4
      23 October 2023 07: 50
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      tools, household items and are there burial places in the area?

      The second article will be about this...
    2. +5
      23 October 2023 08: 55
      At the excavation, fragments of human bones were found, there is a suggestion that an air burial was carried out there, vultures and snakes in the images in the theme.
    3. +3
      23 October 2023 09: 08
      And one more thing - were traces of paintings, dishes, tools, household items found, and are there any burials in the area?

      There is another question - does all this have anything to do with the builders of the complex... For, for example, the buildings of Bru-na-Boin were used for their own purposes by each successive people who came. There are no traces of anyone there...
      1. +4
        23 October 2023 10: 51
        Quote: paul3390
        Does all this have anything to do with the builders of the complex?

        Comparative radiocarbon analysis of found everyday artifacts and architectural elements will easily answer this
        1. +3
          23 October 2023 11: 19
          This is the first time I’ve heard about radiocarbon dating of a stone... Besides - well, well, you found a bone there at the foot, which was determined to be 10 years old. And - what does this give? Where is the evidence that the bone got there during construction? And not later? Now, if she were under a stone, then yes, but no one will let them touch them..
          1. +4
            23 October 2023 11: 24
            Quote: paul3390
            you found a bone there at the foot, which you determined to be 10 years old. And - what does this give?

            If the found bone coincides with the age of the processed pebble, then we can conclude that they were adjacent under the moon at the same time. And then the rest is the fantasy of historians and journalists wink
            1. 0
              28 October 2023 16: 54
              If the stone found matches the age of the processed stone

              The problem is that the age of the processed stone and the age of the bone are determined by different methods, with very different accuracy. So even if the age according to the analyzes turns out to be the same, this will not necessarily be true.
  5. +7
    23 October 2023 07: 18
    The territory of the settlement itself, about eight hectares, is densely covered with the remains of domestic buildings, Neolithic cisterns carved from stone, and there is also a quarry for stone extraction.




    There are also images of humanoid figures in Gobekli Tepe. The T-shaped columns depict human hands, as well as loincloths.






    Graphic reconstruction of the original appearance of the structure.
    1. +4
      23 October 2023 07: 53
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      Graphic reconstruction of the original appearance of the structure.

      In the second part there will be reconstructions by the artist...
      1. +7
        23 October 2023 08: 08
        The first thing that immediately comes to mind when looking at the graphic reconstruction of the original appearance of the structure is that these mysterious T-shaped columns served as the basis for the second wooden(?) floor

        Thank you, Caliber, for the information. Good day everyone!
        1. +11
          23 October 2023 09: 18
          Making assumptions is a thankless task, but I’ll take the risk anyway. From my “peasant-rational-practical” point of view, the Gobekli Tepe complex of three main structures was not a temple structure, but a barn with a wooden floor, raised above the ground floor on T-shaped columns, which is suggested by the presence of round holes in them, probably serving for natural ventilation of the basement underground for optimal storage conditions for the crop.
          .
          And a reed, thatched or wooden roof with a ridge. This high T-shaped column just clearly suggests itself under the ridge of the roof.

          And numerous images of snakes and birds of prey, my assumption, served to scare away rodents. And images of predatory animals and headless human bodies - respectively, to scare off two-legged robbers.
          If we speculate further, it is reasonable to assume that the guardians of grain barns enjoyed unquestioned authority, power and knowledge of local agro-climatic cycles and subsequently smoothly transformed into a caste of priests. Like the ancient Egyptian priests-keepers of secrets.
          And the food itself stored in these barns could serve both as food supplies for the tribe members themselves, and as a means of barter with representatives of other tribes, which explains the pilgrimage to this complex in that era.
          It would be interesting to hear the opinions of fellow commentators on this matter.
          1. +7
            23 October 2023 09: 33
            The easiest way to store the harvest is in a hole coated with clay and covered with a lid, the cracks in which are sealed with manure. This is how many tribes keep it now. For this, there is no point in struggling like this for many years..
            1. +4
              23 October 2023 09: 49
              This is certainly true, but in those places where people are constantly faced with mudflows and landslides, storing crops and food supplies in earthen pits is not the best option. Here, on the contrary, barns need to be raised above the surface and stone fences built around them for protection.
              1. +3
                23 October 2023 11: 21
                Maybe it’s easier to find a more level place? what Why build a barn like a barn for one and a half thousand years, straining for generations? what
          2. +5
            23 October 2023 09: 36
            Good morning, Dmitriy!

            I won't even make assumptions.

            How is caste determined? Parents? Inclinations? Health? Character?

            In general, everything is according to Kipling. Just like ours.
            Only the details differ.
            1. +4
              23 October 2023 09: 47
              How is caste determined? Parents? Inclinations? Health? Character?

              The color of the pants? what laughing
              1. +8
                23 October 2023 09: 57
                The color of the pants?

                For those times - more likely the color and quality of the loincloth. By the way, there are images of loincloths on the steles of Gobekli Tepe. (see photo posted above by VikNik)
              2. +3
                23 October 2023 10: 44
                There was an indicator for patsaks and chatlan.
          3. +5
            23 October 2023 10: 17
            I would say that raising food storage above ground level is more common in forest crops.
            Good morning, Dmitriy!
            1. +4
              23 October 2023 10: 26
              Good morning, Dmitriy!

              Good morning Anton!
              Damn! smile Our mutual greeting is just like in a cartoon! lol
          4. +6
            23 October 2023 10: 33
            which suggests the presence of round holes in them, which probably served for natural ventilation of the basement floor for optimal storage conditions for the crop.

            The idea is interesting, but at that time the local inhabitants had no harvests due to the lack of agriculture among hunter-gatherers.
            Önceki yıllarda olduğu gibi 2006 kazı kampanyası sırasında da Göbekli Tepe
            bitki kalıntıları, Dr. Reinder Neef tarafından paleobotanik analizlerle araştırıldı.
            Toprak yüzdürme yöntemiyle özellikle L9-68 açmasının kuzeybatı bolümünde
            kalan alanda P43 numaralı, T- biçimli dikilitaşın üst seviyesinde bulunan dolguda
            yoğun karbonlaşmış organik kalıntılara raslandı. Ilk ön makro tür tespit gözlemleri
            sonucunda beklendiği gibi yabanî buğday türü olan Einkorn belirlendi. Tahılın
            evcilleştirilmiş formuna yönelik bir bulguya rastlanmadı
            .

            Translation of the last sentence.
            No traces of cultivated plant forms were found.
            Source - Klaus Schmidt, Göbekli Tepe Kazısı 2006 Yılı Raporu Sh.: 422
            Nothing has changed since then.
            1. +10
              23 October 2023 11: 11
              No traces of cultivated plant forms were found.

              So be it, Viktor Nikolaevich, but aren’t hunting trophies suitable for storage in such raised “barns” with a ventilated base? And apparently there was a lot of loot. Here Caliber writes:
              Archaeozoological finds indicate to us that the inhabitants of Gobekli Tepe had a large-scale hunt for gazelles, starting in mid-summer and continuing until the onset of autumn.

              At one time I was amazed when I saw Khanty barns “on chicken legs” for meat and fish in the taiga. Made simply and rationally. Making a foundation on permafrost is a long and thankless task, so the Khanty came up with this idea - they cut down trees growing in a rectangle at the height of human growth and build barns on these stumps as on foundations. The bottom of the base is not tight - with cracks they are lined with boards for ventilation and ventilation, and the barn itself is made of logs, with sphagnum - the so-called. "cuckoo flax" between the logs.

              The floor of the barn is also not laid tightly for ventilation. On the floors there is dry fern and the same cuckoo flax. In such ventilated barns, meat and fish balyks are dried and stored.
              1. +4
                23 October 2023 11: 13
                Quote: Richard
                trees growing in rectangles are cut down at human height and barns are placed on these stumps

                This is how they have always done it and do it in Scandinavia...
              2. +4
                23 October 2023 12: 20
                Here Caliber writes:
                Archaeozoological finds indicate to us that the inhabitants of Gobekli Tepe had a large-scale hunt for gazelles, starting in mid-summer and continuing until the onset of autumn.

                The remains of approximately 100 animals have been identified at Göbekli Tepe. Therefore, your assumption has a right to exist.
                But at present, the well-established hypothesis of Klaus Schmidt that Göbeklitepe is an exclusively religious building is giving way to the hypothesis that Göbeklitepe is a kind of prototype of communal dwellings, similar to the frame “long houses” in the Great Lakes region or village houses (pueblos). ) in southwestern North America, and the stone columns are totem poles with intertwined real and fantastic images.
              3. +5
                23 October 2023 12: 37
                Dmitry, everything is fine.
                Only sphagnum and Kukushkin flax are different mosses.
            2. 0
              28 October 2023 17: 02
              Only the local inhabitants had no harvests at that time due to the lack of agriculture among hunter-gatherers.

              Have you read the article? And in general, anything about Gobekli Tepe? There were no traces of cultivated plants, but (numerous) grains of wild barley and wheat were present. The inhabitants of Gobekli Tepe did not need (at least at first) to sow wheat and barley - they grew nearby themselves, and they still grow in the surrounding area. Just collect, store, chop and eat (but there are traces of mortars). Moreover, one must understand that wild wheat, if you start cultivating it, will not immediately turn into domesticated wheat.
  6. +6
    23 October 2023 08: 30
    The question of what made the ancient people get together and build such a truly colossal structure will remain unresolved.
    1. +3
      23 October 2023 10: 55
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      what made the ancient people come together and build such a truly colossal structure

      As an option, joint defense against animals or other people. Or maybe a joint attack
    2. 0
      28 October 2023 17: 08
      The question of what made the ancient people get together and build such a truly colossal structure will remain unresolved.

      The same thing that made ancient people build other megalithic structures. Availability of free time, excess food and dependence on higher powers that must be worshiped.
    3. 0
      5 November 2023 17: 35
      Why “collosal”!?? Even small.
  7. +3
    23 October 2023 08: 31
    Thank you, I was interested in the topic, I haven’t seen anywhere in serious works that he was buried naturally, although I myself was inclined towards this, because I saw this and was professionally involved, I am a geological engineer, I worked with archaeologists, I saw how bronze was covered by several meters mudflow deposits and explained how it happened, looked at the images, but did not understand anything reliably, I was not there myself.
  8. +8
    23 October 2023 08: 37
    This is how National Geographic illustrator Fernando Baptista imagined the construction of this complex - Building Göbekli Tepe






    1. 0
      5 November 2023 17: 40
      Still a fake. Human height poles for dramatic effect, up to 7 meters laughing
  9. +2
    23 October 2023 08: 37
    First of all, it was discovered in 1963, but its value was realized only in 1994, and excavations there began a year later.
    Lovecraft didn’t live long enough, otherwise he would have launched a new cycle worse than Dagon and Cthulhu lol
  10. +4
    23 October 2023 09: 02
    There are more questions than answers.

    All monumental religious buildings have always been erected with one goal - to attract as many parishioners as possible and, accordingly, to collect as much material values ​​as possible from them. What could you get from the surrounding hunter-gatherers? A boar thigh and a pair of wolf skins? And how many are there in the area - a thousand, two? What's the point of fussing like that then?

    The presence of a temple complex implies, whatever one may say, the presence of some more or less developed religion. For let us tell the spirits of nature - you can pray anywhere, they don’t need a temple. In the same way, it seems to imply a caste of priests, enclosing parishioners and living at their expense. Otherwise, again, why a temple? And all this - in the pre-ceramic Neolithic???

    Constructions of such a scale - in any case, require no longer a weak organization of society. After all, someone planned the structures, ordered the workers what to drag and place where, ensured order and food, and so on and so forth. And something similar somehow goes against modern ideas about the emergence of at least proto-identities. Simply because for them, given the productive model of that time, there was no economic basis. There are no surpluses that leaders and shamans could seize and dispose of for their own purposes. Or at least - they are too small even for a proto-identity..

    And such questions can be filled into at least a separate article...
    1. +2
      23 October 2023 09: 56
      Of course, there are many questions, but attracting a significant number of parishioners is the meaning in itself - this society will trample all the neighbors who did not gather in such a crowd and build a temple.
      1. +2
        23 October 2023 11: 32
        It won't trample. Because there is no surplus to support a more or less constant armed crowd. Besides - there is no point, in the Neolithic - in general there is nothing to take from a neighbor. As the history of the peoples whom we found at this level shows, clashes between them are never long and bloody. They gathered, yelled, killed a couple of people, and went home. Because there is simply no reason to risk your life and start a serious brawl... The real mess began when the whites brought real economic interest. Let's say they began to exchange beaver for guns and metal products. Here, yes, there was a massacre. And before that - something like the Australian aborigines, or the blacks before Chucky. More show-off than exhaust.

        Well, what will you take from your neighbor-hunter that you couldn’t get yourself? And for the farmer, the harvest at that time was simply meager, and it was easier to exchange its surplus for skins than to take it by force...

        That’s when, with the development of agriculture, it became possible to take a lot, and this was a lot to feed the armed idlers, and wars of conquest began.. But not in the early Neolithic for sure..
        1. +5
          23 October 2023 12: 22
          Well, what will you take from your neighbor-hunter that you couldn’t get yourself?
          What could the Maori take from the even nakeder Moriori? However, they turned it into a nightmare and, mind you, without any participation of a white man.
          Human cruelty is, in principle, an irrational thing.
          1. +2
            23 October 2023 14: 47
            Please note - in this situation, the Maori took advantage of all the benefits of European civilization. In particular - transport. Plus - they ALREADY could dispatch such a crowd for genocide, because thanks to the whites, a fair surplus product appeared. Well, imagine - let's say you have a Mesolithic clan, in which there are a dozen hunters who feed everyone else. How long will you be willing to take them out of the process? How many are you willing to lose? The answer is, in general, obvious - not a single one.. For every absent adult man is equal to several women and children for whom there may not be enough food.. There is no time for entertainment here..
            1. +3
              23 October 2023 15: 47
              Probably, if the main resource - the food supply - is critically reduced, it is necessary to clear the territory of strangers. Of course, you can have a row and break up without any problems. What if there is nowhere to go or there are even more cruel neighbors further away? The only way out is to destroy the weaker ones, even at the cost of losses among one’s own.
          2. +4
            23 October 2023 16: 01
            Human cruelty is, in principle, an irrational thing.

            Not only human. I saw a film somewhere about one monkey hunting another. Chimpanzees have distinguished themselves in cruelty, it seems. I think it's not a matter of irrationality. A completely rational motive can be seen here - the struggle for habitat and food supply. The main condition for such aggression is the sociality of the attackers. There must be a flock, and in it, already at the animal level, there is a division of functions: someone hunts, and someone nurtures the young.
            1. +1
              23 October 2023 17: 41
              Follow the link for material on this topic. You might be interested.
              https://vsluh.net/2921-vsemirnaja-istorija-nasilija-uchenye-pytajutsja-otvetit-stanovimsja-li-my-bolee-zhestokimi.html
          3. 0
            23 October 2023 21: 46
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Well, what will you take from your neighbor-hunter that you couldn’t get yourself?
            What could the Maori take from the even nakeder Moriori? However, they turned it into a nightmare and, mind you, without any participation of a white man.
            Human cruelty is, in principle, an irrational thing.

            He himself is not only a piece of valuable fur, but also a portion of proteins, fats and carbohydrates. laughing
        2. +2
          23 October 2023 12: 29
          Armed loafers appeared much, much later, there, at the end of the Upper Paleolithic, as a result of favorable climatic changes, a lot of people divorced, there was no agriculture yet, no one plowed, no one drove goats, but all the areas of wild cereals and gorges where goats were found were already they belonged to someone, they competed for them, according to archeology, the massacre at this time greatly increases, although it has always existed, in these times it becomes widespread.
        3. 0
          28 October 2023 17: 13
          Because there is no surplus to support a more or less constant armed crowd.

          The Gebeklitpeks had just that - otherwise they wouldn’t have built megaliths. Even if it was wild wheat, barley and goats, they were there and it was worth worshiping the gods and cutting off the heads of neighbors for them.
    2. +4
      23 October 2023 11: 06
      Quote: paul3390
      A boar thigh and a pair of wolf skins?

      At that time, this was very good, considering that all the thoughts of the people of that time were about what he would eat today for breakfast, lunch or dinner...
      1. +4
        23 October 2023 11: 25
        It’s not worth the cost... It’s too much effort for the sake of the impending thigh... After all, the complex took hundreds of years to build... Besides, it’s a common misconception that in those days people were just scouring the area, looking for something to devour . Given the abundance of game at that time, this was not a question at all. An antelope or a pig could be caught just around the corner. I'm not talking about all sorts of roots and berries...
        1. +4
          23 October 2023 11: 35
          Quote: paul3390
          it’s a common misconception that in those days people just roamed around looking for something to eat

          There is a theory that a person began to think creatively and create only when he became sedentary and more or less resolved the issue with food. Think less about food - more about other things, for example, how to process stone, make a clay pot or speed up the Internet...
          1. +3
            23 October 2023 14: 50
            Come on - look at the Australian aborigines, or, say, the American Indians. They spent at most four hours a day searching for food. In fact, with an abundance of game, a hunter has significantly more free time than we would say...
            1. +4
              23 October 2023 16: 16
              Quote: paul3390
              They spent at most four hours a day searching for food.

              You probably think that the roe deer themselves lit a fire, tore off their skin, and then impaled themselves on spits. Yourself too? wink
              1. +1
                23 October 2023 23: 24
                You probably think that the roe deer themselves lit a fire, tore off their skin, and then impaled themselves on spits.

                Uh-uh... What about women? what
  11. +2
    23 October 2023 09: 39
    But then a landslide occurred, which caused serious damage to fence D

    But it was impossible to immediately build a complex on level ground, where there are no landslides? Were the ancient builders idiots? In addition, judging by the photo, there are no hills in the area of ​​such a size that such a landslide could come down from them..
    1. +5
      23 October 2023 09: 48
      Landslides and mudflows happen where they haven’t happened for thousands of years and won’t happen for another thousand years.
    2. +2
      23 October 2023 10: 08
      Hands are crooked. I wanted to press plus, but I pressed minus.
      1. +4
        23 October 2023 10: 35
        Within a couple of minutes, this can be corrected by pressing the desired sign. The result of the first press will be reset to zero.
    3. +3
      23 October 2023 11: 08
      Quote: paul3390
      Were the ancient builders idiots?

      They weren't idiots. They simply didn't have that experience. What do you want from sapiens who have recently become sedentary?
      1. 0
        23 October 2023 14: 52
        Were they sedentary? Besides, to understand what a landslide is, you don’t have to sit in one place for years, do you? What - the hunter has never seen such a phenomenon?
        1. +3
          23 October 2023 16: 20
          You've already been given the answer...
          Quote: Andobor
          Landslides and mudflows happen where they haven’t happened for thousands of years and won’t happen for another thousand years.

          I’ll just add that we have a small river - it’s difficult to even wet the sole of a shoe in it - several years ago it overflowed its banks and flooded several houses. This has never happened before. Who could have known this?..
          1. 0
            23 October 2023 23: 27
            A landslide, as it is not difficult to notice from the name, only happens from some hill. To avoid it, it is enough not to build under it..

            And by the way, this is the first time I’ve heard the version that Gebekli Tepe was covered by a landslide. Everywhere it is mentioned that he was covered with pens..
    4. The comment was deleted.
  12. +2
    23 October 2023 10: 07
    Great article!!!! Like everything that Vladislav Olegovich writes on ancient and medieval history!
  13. +2
    23 October 2023 11: 28
    Quote: Richard
    This is how National Geographic illustrator Fernando Baptista imagined the construction of this complex - Building Göbekli Tepe








    I'm pretty sure I know what inspired the artists who painted the "valley of the tombs" on Korriban.
  14. +1
    23 October 2023 13: 56
    A team of scientists from the University of Edinburgh examined a slab on which A vulture and a scorpion are depicted next to the headless body of a man.
    “Computer analysis showed that before us is nothing more than a fragment of the starry sky,” constellations are indicated by animal symbols", the scientists note.
    Researchers believe that we are talking about the fall of a massive meteorite around 10 BC (950+ thousand years ago), which led to global cooling. This is also indicated by data obtained from the “climate record” of the planet, which is “kept” by glaciers in Greenland.
    CC BY-SA 4.0 / Dosseman (cropped) /
    "Griffin Stone" in Gobekli Tepe, which is a map of the starry sky
    See also: Portasar, called Göbekli Tepe. The Turks literally translated the word Portasar into Göbekli...
  15. +4
    23 October 2023 14: 17
    Good afternoon dear friends! )))
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, if I do not comment on your articles, this does not mean that I do not read them. In the series about the maturation of humanity, serious conclusions emerged that were surprising to me; I’ll share them someday.
    And now - essentially.
    A hint of the possibility of overlap is in the photograph of the pillar with the lizard, the one after the second sculpture of the wild boar.
    Take a closer look!
    How can there be no ceilings in a humid climate, such that the villages were walking around. Just like that you sat straight in the rain, just like that you got wet? ))))
    1. +3
      23 October 2023 15: 19
      Quote: depressant
      Just like that you sat straight in the rain, just like that you got wet?

      Thank you!
  16. +3
    23 October 2023 16: 11
    Thanks for the interesting material! I was surprised that in the reconstruction of the ring structures the entrance to the central room is not visible. In general, these round buildings resemble a labyrinth, which already suggests their defensive function. However, this does not exclude their cult purpose - monasteries and temples also served as fortresses in later times.
  17. -1
    23 October 2023 22: 55
    = The territory of the settlement itself, about eight hectares, is densely covered with the remains of domestic buildings, Neolithic cisterns carved from stone, =
    According to the author, the inhabitants of the settlement used flint tools.
    I would like to see how the author of these lines carves out of stone, with a flint ax (?), a tank, which, moreover, was filled - = from drainage canals = running, as I understand it, along the “streets” of the settlement. What about latrines? But what about the obligatory garbage and waste inherent in any settlement?
  18. 0
    24 October 2023 13: 07
    very interesting!!! THX ! the topic is arrogant!)) here we need to start with the influence of buildings on the human psyche, with the children’s construction of “headquarters” and all sorts of “microshelters”, like chimpanzees collecting stones in the hollows of trees and they supposedly have their own megaliths there ...., there connection between people's desire for buildings and civilization?? non-contact peoples clearly did not strive for construction, and some even for myths that explained the world order....
  19. 0
    24 October 2023 13: 14
    Quote: paul3390
    There are more questions than answers.

    All monumental religious buildings have always been erected with one goal - to attract as many parishioners as possible and, accordingly, to collect as much material values ​​as possible from them. For let us tell the spirits of nature - you can pray anywhere, they don’t need a temple. In the same way, it seems to imply a caste of priests, enclosing parishioners and living at their expense. Otherwise, again, why a temple?
    Constructions of such a scale - in any case, require no longer a weak organization of society. After all, someone planned the structures, ordered the workers what to drag and place where, ensured order and food, and so on and so forth. And something similar somehow goes against modern ideas about the emergence of at least proto-identities. Simply because for them, given the productive model of that time, there was no economic basis. There are no surpluses that leaders and shamans could seize and dispose of for their own purposes. Or at least - they are too small even for a proto-identity..


    ego drives living beings, not the thirst for profit, profit is secondary))))
    profit from the deep government is only a means to command!
  20. 0
    24 October 2023 13: 19
    Quote: Richard
    served to repel rodents.

    ))))
    standards, banners and banners to repel mosquitoes??))))
    in my opinion, they are used to scare away internal fears and doubts)))), these are more dangerous enemies than rodents! symbols and images are a very valuable ally!))))
  21. +2
    25 October 2023 13: 06
    Many thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich for this post. Of course, this megalithic complex as well as other archaeological sites (for example, Karakhan Tepe) are the key to understanding the emergence of the first civilizations, and ultimately modern civilization.
    I have been researching this megalithic complex for the last 4 years. Now within the framework of the dissertation "The initial stage of the formation of agriculture and the question of the development of astronomical knowledge in the Pre-Pottery Neolithic era based on materials from monuments of the Euphrates River basin." In November, the first article was published in the journal “Components scientific and technological progress” - “On the question of the astronomical purpose of the architectural elements of structure D in the early Neolithic cult complex of Göbekli Tepe.” The journal is included in the List of Higher Attestation Commissions. During the research, I received advice from leading PPNA experts, as well as from Stellarium developers
    Abstract
    The article is devoted to the materials of the intertribal cult center of the pre-ceramic Neolithic era Göbekli Tepe (X-IX millennia BC, hereinafter the dates are calibrated). The purpose of this study is to confirm the hypothesis of the astronomical purpose of the relief images on pillar No. 43, included in the circular complex of steles/“pillars” embedded in the circumferential wall of building D. Using the method of modeling the view of the celestial sphere using the planetarium programs Stellarium and Cartesdu Ciel (Sky Chart) made it possible to reconstruct an ancient picture of the starry sky that existed in the 43th millennium BC. It was revealed that the images on pillar No. 43 correlate with the position of individual stars and their groups in the predawn sky of the days of the vernal equinox during the period of operation of structure D. Using an original method based on the principles of visual perception (“Gestalt method”), it was possible to localize and identify ancient constellations corresponding to the images of pillar No. 43. Pillars No. 18 and No. 43 are “aligned” with respect to dawn/dawn. The images on pillar No. 9,5 are united by a common plot/story. This story reflects the sequence of astronomical events/phenomena that were observed by ancient man in the predawn sky on the days of the vernal equinox XNUMX thousand years BC.
    The research is almost complete. Next, articles are planned on the remaining pillars of corpus/structure D. Corpus D (layer III) is a lunisolar calendar with some semblance of a zodiac.
  22. 0
    28 October 2023 18: 59
    B7 greetings from Argentina.
    https://www.facebook.com/andesmagicos.live/videos/860365248972577/
    Check out these preinca ruins.
  23. 0
    26 February 2024 05: 26
    How majestic is this building? This may be the first stone structure in the world of this size.
    I don’t think about any religious purpose for the construction, at least in the first stages.
    Before him, people built with wooden structures.
    The oldest wooden “logs” have a lifespan of about 100 thousand (I think it’s more, I forgot, but approximately 100 thousand) and people knew how to build wooden houses.
    I watched the reconstruction of an ancient Stone Age dwelling. It was very reminiscent of a magpie's nest, only people put them upside down. Even magpies make nests out of branches, clay and mud.