When will Viktor Yanukovych stop playing Scarlett O'Hara?

At the beginning of 2013, the topic of Ukraine’s possible entry into the EurAsEC Customs Union, which today includes Belarus, Russia and Kazakhstan, has become quite active. In the first days of the coming year, the policies of Russia and Ukraine outlined the intentions of expanding the Customs Union precisely because of the quite possible entry of Ukraine into it. Sergey Lavrov, head of the Russian foreign affairs agency, arrived in Kiev to meet with the Ukrainian leadership. The purpose of the visit is obvious: Lavrov arrived in order to coordinate the visit of Viktor Yanukovych to Moscow, during which (visit) certain agreements on the integration of Ukraine into the CU can be reached in the near future.

Let's not forget that the visit of the Ukrainian president to Moscow was to take place as early as December 2012, but then Yanukovych never arrived at the meeting with Vladimir Putin. Journalists asked the Russian president about the reasons for the “no-show” of Yanukovich to the capital of Russia during the December 20 2012 press conference of the year, but the exact answer was not received. But some time later, news came from Kiev that Viktor Yanukovych did not fly to Moscow, because experts from both sides did not have time to prepare a full package of documents that would talk about the possibilities of adapting Ukrainian legislation to the norms of the Customs Union. This, in particular, said the president of Ukraine. Yanukovych, in fact, made it clear that if he had arrived in Moscow a few weeks ago, he would have nothing to discuss with Vladimir Putin, because the documentary basis for a substantive conversation about Ukraine’s entry into the Customs Union with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan absent. Whose fault was she missing, so to say, and was anything done to prepare this base? - this is another question.

Apparently, after this, the very experts about whom the Ukrainian president spoke, at least from Russia, decided to intensify their work and do their part to ensure that the meeting of the two (and possibly four) presidents took place in the near future.

At the same time, they came from Ukraine news that soon Leonid Kozhara plans to go to Moscow, who not so long ago was appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs. Kozhara represents the “Party of Regions”, which means that, in principle, it shares the position of the Ukrainian president. But what is this position today? With her things are not very clear.

The fact is that the conversation about Ukraine’s joining the CU is far from a day or two. And if the Ukrainian president says that the relevant legal framework is not prepared, then what prevented her from preparing all this time, because interest, as Yanukovych himself says about Ukraine’s entry into the Customs Union and further into EurAsEC, is present ... And the desire of the current Ukrainian leader to prevent , let's say, on two fronts. The President of Ukraine constantly says that his country has headed for European integration and does not intend to go from this path. At the same time, Viktor Fedorovich does not intend to buy energy from Russia at European prices, as do all those who have finally chosen the European vector of development. But in order to receive, for example, gas at prices advantageous to official Kiev, it is necessary to at least to some extent mark its rapprochement with Moscow. It is to some extent that so far the Ukrainian president is successfully demonstrating. His words that "they did not have time to prepare a documentary base" fit into this outline. Did you want to cook it? ..

But after all, infinitely "to some extent" cannot continue. In the end, Yanukovych will have to choose a single chair for a rather comfortable seat on it, because none of the political leaders have been able to sit on two chairs without consequences. If we assume that the Ukrainian authorities declare that Ukraine is choosing the path of European integration (and in the coming year Kiev and Brussels planned to sign the so-called Association Act of Ukraine and the EU), then the representatives of the Customs Union are unlikely to applaud. Someone can say, but perhaps Moscow, Minsk or Astana have the right to condemn the actions of Kiev, which are associated with his own vision of the future for Ukraine? Yes, indeed, they have no rights, but only after that and all the talk that the Ukrainian authorities want to reach agreements on the supply of energy resources at preferential prices look completely meaningless. Preferential prices on the basis of what? Based on the fact that Viktor Yanukovych promised to think about joining the Customs Union, like Scarlett O'Hara, tomorrow? ..

On the other hand, if, nevertheless, the very experts do everything for Viktor Yanukovych to make sure that Ukraine finally joins the Customs Union, what then? Then again it turns out to be a game with two chairs, one of which, whether the Ukrainian president wants or not, will have to be disposed of. After all, if we assume that his personal signature appears on the document of accession, and Ukraine will become the fourth member of the Customs Union, then the Europeans, in turn, will say: “Viktor, who are you with?” After all, expect that in the European Union someone will say that Ukraine’s entry into the Customs Union does not contradict the interests of the European Union, at least naively. One may say that the European Union is based on democratic principles, when only the people decide everything, but we understand that in fact this maxim is far from the truth. A good half of the EU member states are listed in this very EU for the sole purpose: to wave a small fist to the side of Russia because of the new Curtain, invoking at least verbal help from NATO if necessary.

And here, you understand, Viktor Fedorovich with his multi-vector nature can destroy the true basic principles of the existence of the European Union. It is, of course, Brussels could take advantage of Ukraine’s entry into the Customs Union, so that through the formed “corridor” to get oil and gas cheaper, but then you have to step over the precepts of Big Brother, and finally admit that the Russian proposals for economic Eurasian integration are tempting than endless refinancing against each other when using currencies that are more dead than alive ...

In general, Viktor Yanukovych, in fact, does not have much time to make a final decision. Yes - it will be difficult anyway. But from that it will be no less valuable for the whole of Ukraine.

Comments

[atalef]

When will Viktor Yanukovych stop playing Scarlett O'Hara?

I will not think about it today, I will think tomorrow

[Lord of the Sith]

And how do you like this photo

[Axel]

When will Viktor Yanukovych stop playing Scarlett O'Hara?
All question is closed
About 52% of Ukrainians support the country's accession to the European Union. This is evidenced by the results of a study conducted by the sociological group "Rating".

"According to the results of the study, 52% of the polled Ukrainians support Ukraine's accession to the European Union. 34% do not. Another 14% have not decided," sociologists say.
The biggest supporters of Ukraine's accession to the EU are young people - almost two-thirds of the respondents aged 18-29 support the initiative, and do not support - only a quarter. Older people are the most pessimistic about the initiative - 38% support and 43% do not support it, "the research notes.

The study was conducted in all regions of Ukraine from September 25 to October 5, 2012 among Ukrainians over 18 years of age. In total, 2000 respondents were interviewed, the relative error is not more than 2,2%.

[omsbon]

In general, do any of the Ukrainian politicians think about ordinary people, about their desires and aspirations, or does it all matter?

[ded_73]

And who of the politicians of any country generally thinks of ordinary people?

[Krilion]

Quote: ded_73

And who of the politicians of any country generally thinks of ordinary people?

any government in any country thinks of the people in the last place ... Russian power is no exception ...

[Marek Rozny]

Well, I don’t know, I don’t know) our people were lucky with the leader) he, of course, is a lover of Brezhnev’s toasts in his honor, but we must give him his due - fantastically efficient and most importantly - he thinks strategically well.
Well, a simple Kazakhstani appreciates the fact that Nazarbayev never once deceived the population. When it was a bad time, I frankly said that there would be nothing good, it was necessary to tighten our belts. When he promised that we would achieve such and such results by such and such a year, he did it. Everyone laughed at his KZ development program until 2030, which was adopted in the mid-90s, and now we are proud that the main parameters of the program have been completed ahead of schedule. Now the program until 2050 in action.
I can only blame Nursultan for "Brezhnevism", which amuses and annoys at the same time. And as a manager - no complaints.
But the Ukrainians do not have any coherent leader, therefore, in both domestic and foreign policies there is a rustle and a mess.
Eurasians need to use Yanukovych in their interests (which, in principle, do not contradict the interests of Ukrainians), and then find and support a promising local politician. If not, then nurture. And do not be afraid that it will take 5 years or 10. Time will fly by quickly, and the benefits will be for many years to come.
Here is the Belarusian Old Man - well done, really understands what’s what, and where to go. But he has a minus - as a politician he cannot wait. Bustler. From this all his problems and sometimes stupid showers in relations with Moscow.

[Hunghuz]

Tilyatko Svidomitko sucks two queens) and two gobies at least .......)))))))

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Hunghouse

Tilyatko Svidomitko sucks two queens) and two gobies at least.

Well, how is milk from gobies tasty?

[neri73-r]

Is Gobies the United States (GCA) and the European Union?

[askort154]

The real perspective of Ukrvina is to sit on the floor, between two chairs.

[yak69]

Ultimately, Ukraine will join both the Customs Union and the Eurasian Economic Community. It’s like with that girl who knows what is her .... ut but delays pleasure

[clinic1]

Honestly, it’s not only sad, but also ridiculous to read such comments ... But you used to be one people, our grandfathers fought together, they built a country ...

[nnz226]

Only now, forgetting about the common history and protection of the common homeland, on December 1, 1991, the inhabitants of the future square voted for this independence with a joyful squeal (except for Crimea, everywhere “for” gained from 82 to 97% (!!!) of votes) Then about unity have forgotten something. Customs offices at the borders immediately arose from the Ukrainian side, they also considered themselves an "all-Union granary" to feed us, it turned out that this was not the case, and the gas was also expensive, thanks to the policy of poor orange-colored Yushchenko and Tymoshenko. For which, too, by the way, on the Maidan, like enraged Banderlog, knocked on the barrels. What did you think? A saddle ?! So durrrren grows rich with such a thought ...

[boris.radevitch]

We must have enough lunch to sulk at each other!

[420482]

It is high time. All power is in unity, together we are power. And alone it’s hard to resist the west.

[420482]

Gone are the days when my hut is on the edge. It's time to think with your head and make decisions. Presidents must be strong politicians and should not be afraid to make decisions of one kind or another.

[valokordin]

I look at the Old Man, a real man is sick for the country, and Yanukovych kindly requested.

[Egoza]

Quote: 420482

Presidents must be strong politicians and should not be afraid to make decisions of one kind or another.

That's what is not, that is not! And the situation is now: the memory device looks to Europe, and the memory device looks to the Russian Federation. You go to the vehicle, so the memory can rebel. But "Svoboda" also trained its units in "youth camps". I fed the PR on my head! I thought to make a horror story for the East: "Vote for us, otherwise the Nazis will come to power." And now, it seems, and they themselves are afraid. And how and with what forces to pacify them? That and you look - Ukraine will fall apart! And the oligarchs are afraid that the Russian sharks will be stronger than them! That leaves "Great samostiina dirka"!

[Skavron]

Fidget, so maybe the whole thing is just in the Ukrainian oligarchs?
Will Kolomoisky, Firtash, Akhmetov ... feel comfortable when the expansion of Russian tycoons begins? It is so easy for these people, without an international scandal, to take away any "Kryvorizhstal" or "Ilych" mill ...
Personally, my opinion is that this is the whole point.

[yurasumy]

I agree with Scavron. The problem is in the nouveau riches (now it is fashionable to call them oligarchs. Although the nouveau riches were nouveau riches and have remained). Their money lies in the west (all honestly stolen). But they also have another problem. In the West, nobody needs them (Ie the West is not opposed to them destroying Ukraine by robbery, but they do not agree to consider them "theirs". The example of P. Lazarenko is clear. I generally wonder why no one compares Lazarenko with Khodorkovsky. The guys have a lot And they are imprisoned for about the same thing. Only one in the USA. Another in Russia. But I'm not talking about that now, but about the fact that our nouveau riche in the West will be imprisoned. Not all of them, of course, but many). They need to live in Ukraine. And how to live if the whole business is tied to Russia, well, now also to Asia. Those. you need to be friends with Russia and China, and the owners (money) say that with the United States and Europe. This is where this multi-vector approach came from. To destroy it, you need to either transfer money to the east (Russia or China + guarantees of immunity) or destroy the Ukrainian industry (which has already been done for 20 years. Then energy dependence will weaken) in order to turn to the West. Honestly, I'm a little surprised at the "clumsiness" of Russia's policy. After all, the conclusion is obvious. To attract Ukraine to itself, it is necessary to integrate it economically. And then politics itself will catch up with the economy. But the Russian leadership has staked on the "energy" twisting of arms and the maximum crushing of the Ukrainian industry (all industrial integration projects are demonstratively either slowed down or discarded). Thus, they themselves reduce the possibilities of integration with Ukraine and push the latter to search for other "allies." In the end, I am afraid, even if Putin succeeds in crushing Yanukovych, this "integration" on the part of the Ukrainian authorities will be "insincere" and they will try to escape from the care of Russia at the earliest opportunity. True, the growing crisis in Europe plays into Russia's hands, but whether it will be able to withstand it itself will be the most significant argument for the Ukrainian leadership.

[Don]

Quote: yurasumy

or destroy the industry of Ukraine (which has already been done for 20 years.

In fact, it is precisely the factories owned by the oligarchs, in Ukraine, that we are working and modernizing.

Quote: yurasumy

(all industrial integration projects are demonstratively either slowed down or discarded).

They are braking just from our side. GP Antonov has long been proposed to merge with the KLA. Ours refused. They suggested creating a consortium on the GTS. Ours refused.

[yurasumy]

As for the modernization of factories, you are probably greatly exaggerating. It certainly has a place to be. But the speed of modernization is unacceptable. Now about the braking from the Ukrainian side. After the merger, the state enterprise "Antonov" was supposed to be the place of the UAC branch (All patents, which are still owned by the state enterprise "Antonov", and in fact it was supposed to be transferred to the ownership of the UAC without guarantees for the development of aircraft construction on the territory of Ukraine.) You call this integration. project. For SE "Antonov" Project AN-70. For instance. Who is slowing down? An-148 has a Superjet competitor. Despite the fact that he was already on the wing when the "superjet" was just drawing on paper. But without Russia, Ukraine could not put it into production. For Europe, the path is barred from him for political reasons. And the market in Ukraine is narrow enough for a successful commerce. The launch of the An-148 series lasted almost to the launch of the "superjet" series (although it is impossible to call the superjet a Russian one. Besides the hull elements, there is nothing "Russian". Complete dependence on the West. For example, the An-148 has a domestic filling. This is very important, because many other Ukrainian enterprises are tied to Russia through the An-148 project). I understand. Nothing personal. It is not even funny to talk about the consortium after the takeover of the Belarusian Pipe using the same scheme. This is not integration, but absorption. And this is exactly what the Ukrainian nouveau riche are afraid of. Therefore, the reaction is as follows.

[Skavron]

Factories are being modernized and developed, but not all. And there is an interest of many oligarchs to "drain on metal and brick" a small metallurgical plant, than it will fall into the hands of Rosatom or some other Russian giant. Those will restore and begin to compete. And restoring it yourself is very troublesome.

[Don]

Quote: Skavron

And there is an interest of many oligarchs to "drain on metal and brick" a small metallurgical plant, than it will fall into the hands of Rosatom or some other Russian giant.

Well, firstly, it is not clear why Rosatom Metallurgical Plant. Secondly, I repeat again. The Russian Evraz-Holding has long ago bought Privat's metallurgical assets and 51% of the shares of ISD, and for some reason no one let the plant into the metal.

[Don]

Quote: yurasumy

As for the modernization of plants, you probably greatly exaggerate.

No, actually. It is carried out, unfortunately, not as fast as we would like. Metinvest's plants are undergoing modernization, repair and reconstruction. The company where I work has a number of contracts with them. Recently, the Japanese came to offer a draft of the new USTK, we concluded a preliminary agreement with them. Alchevsk Iron and Steel Works ISD almost five years ago almost doubled its capacity. Interpipe is gradually being modernized, and their Dneprostal, which was recently built, is generally using the latest technologies. But this is the metallurgy that happens at the Firtash plants, in the chemical industry, I unfortunately do not know.

Quote: yurasumy

(All patents, which are still owned by the Antonov State Enterprise, and in fact at the expense of them, were supposed to be transferred to the ownership of the UAC without guarantees for the development of aircraft construction on the territory of Ukraine.)

But Ukraine would get its interest in the UAC and stable profit, and not as it is now.

Quote: yurasumy

For SE "Antonov" Project AN-70. For instance. Who is slowing down?

Wait dear. What do you want? GP Antonov is not part of the KLA, but the Russian Federation should still buy planes from Antonov? So things are not done. That's why they will build their own. And now we are forced to look for someone to shove An.

Quote: yurasumy

An-148 has a Superjet competitor.

Quote: yurasumy

The launch of the An-148 series was almost completed until the launch of the "superjet" series (although it is impossible to call the superjet a Russian either.

An-148 is also difficult to call Ukrainian. The engine is a joint development of Salute and Motor Sich. When developing the aircraft, units and assemblies of production of 214 companies from 15 countries of the world were used, including Russia, the USA, France, etc. And again, why help the Russian Federation to its competitor if they have their own aircraft? If Antonov was part of the UAC is another matter.

Quote: yurasumy

In addition to the elements of the case, there is nothing "Russian" there.

Air conditioning system, lightning protection, data concentrator, etc. are enough. Read. But the main thing is different. This aircraft will be produced in the Russian Federation and there are already enough orders for it from different countries, but for some reason no one bought a very good An-148 aircraft except for the Russian Federation.

Quote: yurasumy

I understand. Nothing personal. It is even not funny to talk about the consortium after the absorption of the Belarusian pipe in the same way. This is not integration, but absorption.

Just you are mistaken. Gazprom simply bought the Belarusian pipe, and they proposed to take the Ukrainian GTS for joint use by Gazprom, Naftogaz and corporations with the EU. Everyone would get almost the same percentage of shares. So what is this takeover?

[plotnikov561956]

“Honestly, I'm a little surprised at the“ clumsiness ”of Russia's policy. After all, the conclusion is obvious. To attract Ukraine, we need to integrate it economically. And then politics will catch up with the economy. all industrial integration projects are demonstratively either slowed down or discarded). Thus, they themselves reduce the possibilities of integration with Ukraine "
At this point, look back ... how many curtsies we have seen from Ukraine ... it's hard to list even the most anti-Russian .. and you say integration ... This capricious girl is no longer being persuaded affectionately ... Gas transit is being discharged ... not concluded the contract would seem mutually beneficial ..
this year, Motor Sich will receive less than 1,5-2.0 billion green and so you can continue ... I think you understand ... they force the girl ..

[wax]

The girl is forced to stop dynamite and, finally, to choose one of two pines.

[Don]

Quote: Skavron

Will Kolomoisky, Firtash, Akhmetov ... feel comfortable when the expansion of the Russian magnates begins?

Comrade, what is the expansion? This is not a war. Evraz-holding has long bought their metallurgical assets from Privat Group and finally put things in order at their factories. Kolomoisky received 9% of the shares of Evraz-holding for this. The same Evraz bought a controlling stake in ISD. Everything is mutually beneficial. I do not think that Akhmetov’s SCM does not mind combining the assets of Metinvest with the assets of Mechel or Severstal, for example. Metinvest was given a 24% stake in Smart Holding for its metallurgical assets.

[yurasumy]

This is not an argument. That the Russian nouveau riche, that our one gang. Therefore, their unification and separation is not an argument.

[Don]

Quote: yurasumy

This is not an argument. That the Russian nouveau riche, that our one gang. Therefore, their unification and separation is not an argument.

Comrade, the argument of what? Then a man wrote about expansion that our oligarchs are afraid of them.

[knn54]

Enough benderіvtsіv at the caches.
And the oligarchs in the Russian Federation are "under the hood" of Putin, and not vice versa, as we do. And in Europe, the oligarchs are no less toothy than in the Russian Federation.
And the main reason for the refusal to join the TS is the savings in Western banks, which can freeze, for good reason.

[anchonsha]

Regrettably, Ukraine is most likely to choose European integration. Even in the Donetsk region, in conversations with people, it shows that they really want to live a human life: with good sewage, excellent service, no corruption, good pay and full employment, so that there is no visa and wherever you want .... Naive people ... Where will they find it all?

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Yes, as the classic "ruin in the heads" said, the Germans did everything for themselves, and the newly joined members, for the most part, as they sat in the shit after the collapse of the USSR, and sit in it hitherto with their mouths open!

[Warrawar]

And We also need to do.

[Val_y]

Interesting where is EUROPI full employment? In Italy, unemployment reached 30% (yesterday they talked on TV), Spain on the same Kukan, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus so ... I'm afraid it will not work out like a human being, we’re very hard to work

[Don]

Quote: Val_Y

so ... I'm afraid it’s not humanly possible,

Dear, you have forgotten such economically powerful countries as Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia. They are doing worse there. And sooner or later, Germany and France will get tired of supporting them, but they will leave them with them anyway, so that they would give loans to them.

[knn54]

From the list below, only Slovenia can be considered an established state, by the way, thanks to the reforms of the first president and former first secretary of the Communist Party! And in Bulgaria (which in Soviet times supplied us with high-quality and cheap agricultural products), Polish products (eggs, sugar ..) cost cheaper than domestic ones. And in Germany itself the standard of living of residents of the former GDR is lower than in western Germany.
Joining the customs union means sales markets, an increase in production due to lower energy prices (elementary arithmetic-power / number of consumers), the combined efforts of aircraft and shipbuilders, space, military-industrial complex ... and in Europe we will become poor relatives , a source of cheap RABsily, a dump of various toxic and radioactive waste, etc. The West remembers the words of Bismarck and strives to prevent the union of Russia and Ukraine with all his might!

[Don]

Quote: knn54

Joining the customs union means sales markets, an increase in production due to lower energy prices (elementary arithmetic-power / number of consumers), the combined efforts of aircraft and shipbuilders, space, military-industrial complex ... and in Europe we will become poor relatives , a source of cheap RABsily, a dump of various toxic and radioactive waste, etc. The West remembers the words of Bismarck and strives to prevent the union of Russia and Ukraine with all his might!

Totally agree with you. I’ll add that we’ll kill our mechanical engineering if we join the EU.

[Don]

Quote: anchonsha

, will choose European integration. Even in the Donetsk region, in conversations with people, it shows that they so want to live humanly:

I don’t know where you were in the Donetsk region, but most smart and respected people do not seek Europe. From youngsters or nonsense you can hear this, but rarely.

[11Goor11]

anchonsha
Naive people ... Where will they find it all?

If the Russian media agreed with the Ukrainian media and a little cleared the brains of naive Ukrainians!

[His]

I do not believe that Euro integration will be better than integration into the CU. How Russians look at Ukrainians or like Germans, this is really a very big difference, I’m not talking about the look of the Poles

[Warrawar]

God forbid Ukraine will be able to bargain any bonuses from the vehicle (or even worse will go into it). It will be a betrayal by the government of the Russian Federation, its people and the complete surrender of the interests of the state.
It is necessary, by any means, to interfere with relations between the CU and Ukraine.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Warrawar

God forbid Ukraine will be able to bargain any bonuses from the vehicle (or even worse will go into it).

Oh yeah, can it really be so bad for you? You can change the flag, otherwise you are probably ashamed to write under it.

[Warrawar]

No, I'm not going to change my flag. My flag is the flag of Russia.
And I really do not want Russophobian tribal education to be fed at the expense of my state.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Warrawar

And I really do not want Russophobian tribal education to be fed at the expense of my state

Well, in this case, you are a Russophobe, Ukraine is a part of Russia as well as Belarus. Rosofobov has the only and main goal to completely separate Ukraine from Russia and you and I go along the same path

[Warrawar]

Go tell ragulaki (of whom there are already the majority) that Ukraine is Russia. You will learn a lot of good things about yourself.

[Warrawar]

Admire what your "brothers" Ukrainians think of you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ql3wF9Xg1mI
Fight with them further, until again you get a knife in the back.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Warrawar

Admire what your brothers Ukrainians think of you

I can listen to Bandera here so what?

[OSTAP BENDER]

Quote: Warrawar

Fight with them further, until again you get a knife in the back.

There are enough such idiots in Russia! His monologue is complete nonsense. Walk through the Ukrainian cities and talk with people, then you will draw conclusions about who will stick it to someone and when!

[black_eagle]

You can get a knife in the back from your neighbor in an alley for a mobile phone. Idiots are all around, their percentage in society is about the same, but the question is, who do you hear, the normal part of society or the part that did not live a day in the USSR but believes that it was this state formation that broke their lives? It’s just funny for me to listen to 18 year old teenagers who accuse of all sins of what they didn’t even see))))))) One of these days I liked the phrase: I see the USSR was a strong state since it has been robbed for 20 years and cannot be plundered)))) )))

[shkodnik]

Thank you, the cool link in the form may be rude, but in fact it’s difficult to object

[plotnikov561956]

Over 20 years, a lot of enemies in Ukraine have grown .. not only in the Western regions, where God himself ordered them to grow, but also in the East .. the Ukrainian elite will stand to death for their piece, the loss of part of which is expected when joining the CU. In other words, Yanukovych will continue to bend his line. Continuation of the two-stool game leads to the collapse of power ... does not choose the Power ..will choose the people ..

[Marek Rozny]

It’s strange, even I am a Kazakh from Kazakhstan, a Muslim who was educated both in his country and in the capital country - and I think that Ukrainians are a very close nation to us (Kazakhs), with whom we need to integrate as much as possible, both politically and economically.
And you are an ethnic Slav, you consider them strangers ... Maybe in order to find a common language with the Ukrainians, you should be the first to reach out? You look less likely to meet "Russophobes" in real life. And on the internet, in the heat of a dispute, Ukrainians and Russians can say a lot of things to each other in the heat of the moment. This is an Internet :) Russians have nothing to share with Ukrainians, IMHO. Well, if the Russian government makes any gesture towards Ukraine regarding the perpetuation of the memory of the victims of the Holodomor (but not in a self-deprecating form), then there will be much fewer "Bandera" and "Russophobes" in the internet at once, and the work on rapprochement of the countries will go much faster.

[Don]

Quote: Warrawar

It will be a betrayal by the government of the Russian Federation, its people and the complete surrender of the interests of the state.

Your head, I see, does not work at all. Read the economy of the Russian Federation and Ukraine at your leisure.

[krasin]

(Regrettably, Ukraine is most likely to choose European integration. Even in the Donetsk region, in conversations with people, it shows that they really want to live like human beings: with good sewage, excellent service, without corruption, with a good salary and full employment)

Well, who is the soldier ......... u will cook. You yourself need to scratch your turnips

[Warrawar]

So there is no one who prevents them from living "like human beings", and wherever they enter, no one will put things in order for them (especially Europeans).
If they live in shit, it means that they themselves are pigs and no one is to blame.

[Smoke]

People cease to respect Yanukovych if he does not agree to an alliance with Russia. Now it’s just a stupid bargain between the elites, as under Khmelnitsky. Only Khmelnitsky didn’t have much choice: to go into citizenship of the Turkish Sultan and the Crimea is a shame, or to ask for the tsar’s arm. Poles cut the Russian population to the root. Good Tsar - he forgave the Time of Troubles when the Cossacks frolic in central Russia. Yet the Enemy was then a common strong and merciless - the Ottomans. Together they defeated all the enemies later.

[Don]

Quote: Smoke

when the Cossacks frolic in central Russia.

There were registered Cossacks, not Cossacks.

[xan]

Yes, the registry, and their Sagaidachny hetman, who is now the flagship of the Ukrainian fleet

[Don]

Quote: xan

and Sagaidachny their hetman, who is now the flagship of the Ukrainian fleet

This is also not entirely clear to me. Sahaidachny certainly walked under the Poles.

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Smoke

to go into citizenship to the Turkish Sultan and the Crimea - a shame

And when he asked the Turks for an army to protect Ukraine from the Polish army, he was not "shameful"? Not the Russian army recaptured Ukraine then, but the Crimean steppe inhabitants.

[max-02215]

Let it be, Yanukovych, lessened for some time, but he is not a fool and understands the delights of joining the European Union, the more a living example is Greece and Spain. For the time being, they are suffering three-balkans due to their geopolitical location, but for the time being, I don’t think that the Germans and the French can enjoy it, the arrogant Saxons remained with their own. So that the independence can finger bend as much as you like, and they have no IMHO alternatives, all the more so what are they planning to sell in the eurozone, to steal gas again?

[morpex]

max-02215 Today, 11: 24
0 Let it be, Yanukovych, still less for some time, but he doesn’t

You are mistaken! Clinical down. Besides the benefits of his family he doesn’t want to hear anything else. He never even thought about the fate of Ukraine and its people for a minute. By the way, you don’t have honey either, but at least they give the crumbs from the master’s table. I’ll clean it up for myself. Seriousness, poverty, no prospects. Now ordinary Ukrainians live even worse than in the dashing 90. Not a country, but a zone where godfather and his retinue reign, and people are snoops ..

[knn54]

If measures are not taken then Ukraine will not, there will be Donetsk Pakhanat, headed by PROFESOR.

[Apollo]

Yanukovych agreed to adapt Ukrainian laws to TS standards

Ukraine should adapt national legislation to those norms of the Customs Union (CU) of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan that do not contradict the international obligations of Kiev. This was announced by the President of the Republic Viktor Yanukovych in an interview published by Komsomolskaya Pravda in Ukraine published on January 4.

According to the Ukrainian leader, experts from both sides are currently working on this issue. “It was planned that by December 18 (Yanukovych’s visit to Moscow was scheduled for this date - approx.“ Lenti.ru ”) they would prepare specific proposals. But the meeting had to be postponed due to the fact that the experts have not yet been able to agree on all the nuances of future agreements, ”Yanukovych explained.

He also stressed that Kiev is currently looking for tools and opportunities for mutually beneficial cooperation with the Customs Union. The countries included in it, according to the president, are “a huge market for Ukrainian products,” and Ukraine’s trade with these states exceeds 60 billion.


ruclubnews.ru/yanukovich-soglasilsya-adaptirovat-ukrainskie-zakon ...

[Shkodnik65]

As in the famous old humoresque: "The question is certainly interesting!" Does anyone remember the policy of the Ukrainian leadership in relation to the state of Russia ??? Forgotten Tuzla, gas scandals, beating of a Russian diplomat and eternal hemorrhoids with the Black Sea Fleet ??? For all those two-plus decades of "independence" not a single friendly step towards the Russian Federation under ANY president. Yes, as a Russian person from the Kursk region, I am for the vehicle with Ukraine. An ordinary person will only benefit from the restoration and simplification of trade ties. But experience tells me only one thing: further game of cat and mouse and an unequivocal departure to the EU if Geyrop whistles them ... And this is sad.

[in reserve]

What are the advantages of Ukraine from signing

Act of Association of Ukraine and the EU

nor any one more time "they will be thrown and thrown", because they fussed at the behest of the amers when they realized what was foreseen AN ASSOCIATION. And in the customs union, at least gas will be cheap.

[Tektor]

The situation with Ukraine is almost one-to-one, as with Yugoslavia. Milosevic also tried to "sit on two chairs": he played along with ours and yours. He played too much, and then he simply became unnecessary to anyone in his hypostasis. Well, wild flocks were torn apart alone. The difference is that the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia was significantly weakened in the second half of the 90s, and now we can guarantee political, economic and military cover. The only question is Yanukovych's capabilities: does he still have room for maneuver?

[Max]

The article is empty, mainly based on hackneyed populisms, probably due to the fact that the topic has been rubbed into holes. Literally, before reading this article, I came across a really informative work on the topic of Ukraine’s choice of the EU or the CU. http://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2013/01/9/6981110/add_ok/#comments (true in Ukrainian). The author put the topic on the shelves, of course oppressing openly towards the EU, but on the whole it writes correctly.

[Kars]

Scarlet Ohara is certainly a cool term. But the multi-pronged policy of Ukraine is the right way.
We need not about Western, or about Moscow, but about Ukrainian politics.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Write down the thesis what it means about Ukrainian politics!

And what prevents the TS in this policy! Just do not flog the stuff about the expansion of Russian capital! Neither Belarus nor Kazakhstan has ever expanded so far!

Our capital is not torn either loot loot there are more reliable and peaceful places where you can chop cabbage without any special stress! And they won’t run to you! Our own companies do not even invest in promising industries because then they will have to puff while developing!

And what do you expose and develop?
Is coal industry a competitor to Russia?
Metallurgical - a competitor to the Russian?
Aviation - so we are already there!
Agro-industrial - so they don’t invest in their own everything rests on state support?

And so what is about Ukrainian politics and what prevents the TS from it ????????

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Nor Belarus

Belarus, in principle, is no longer as such.

Quote: SergeySK

Just do not smack nonsense

And what is the point to me to paint something after this?

It’s better to write yourself WHY We (Ukraine) need what you almost want to give us by force - how much? 20 billion dollars of profit in the first year? no need to flog nonsense about fraternal peoples and so on.

Quote: SergeySK

Our own companies do not even invest in promising industries because then they will have to puff while developing

Maybe that's why? There’s nothing more to steal? And you want to steal from our stolen goods? How many Russians are on the Forbes list and how they earned themselves billions.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

I thought that there was nothing rational other than Russophobia in pro Ukrainian politics! ! !

I didn’t flog any nonsense about fraternal peoples! ! !

What does the EU offer you "the first year" that you want to crawl through "almost by force" without soap (from what I know, apart from Russophobia, or anything)!

Do you have such defenseless aligarchs that they simply take away from them? Or is the state unable to protect its own by setting interest quotas for foreign capital ?? The vehicle does not prohibit this! ! !

You have no clear arguments only Russophobia! ! !

And by the way, I’m just not advocating Ukraine’s entry into the CU!

I just wanted to know what you mean by about Ukrainian politics and what prevents the TC from it! ! ! !

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

You have no clear arguments only Russophobia! ! !

Well, of course, only Russophobia. What else. If you have spoken a word then your answer is you Russophobia))))

Quote: SergeySK

What does the EU offer you?

I asked a question, ng, as I thought, you are not able to answer it. for that matter I repeat.

Quote: Kars

It’s better to write yourself WHY We (Ukraine) you need

What for? simple to ask a question.
Why do you want to make gas cheaper? Do you want to give our plants work and so on.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Need for you reading geopolitics! ! !

Your economy is like a fifth wheel to us like a dog!

You don’t have anything that we don’t have! And what is developed is better than yours!
Or do you think that we could not have built a military transport aircraft without you?

I repeat all interest, this is a geopolitical ally at the border! !

Zaryaetsya on your economy, our only in dreary dreams can dream!

Now your answer is what about the Ukrainian policy and what prevents the TS from it despite the fact that the TS does not prohibit setting quotas for foreign capital ?????????????

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

You don’t have anything that we don’t have

Well, leave me alone on ...

Quote: SergeySK

I repeat all interest, this is a geopolitical ally at the border! !

But I personally do not need to be a geopolitical pawn in your rotten games.

Quote: SergeySK

Now your answer is what about the Ukrainian policy and what prevents the TS from it despite the fact that the TS does not prohibit setting quotas for foreign capital ?????????????

Are you completely familiar with the agreement and the vehicle protocols? Can you prove this to approve something?

And as such, there is nothing wrong with the TS, as the conditions of entry will become beneficial for US, let’s go in. I doubt that Yanyk and our aligarchs from Russophobia will lose at least a penny of profit.
But all the same, it is PERSONAL to me it is not clear why the economic union, the attempt to bring into political.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Should I come to you with the originals of the protocols to prove ??

Everything on the network has long been open!

Ie about the Ukrainian independent policy to be a "Western geopolitical pawn" in their rotten games ???

[Garrin]

Quote: Kars

But I personally do not need to be a geopolitical pawn in your rotten games.

And after such an answer, you are personally uninteresting to me.
And my family, friends and relatives are interesting to me, to whom I have to travel through 2 borders. and customs control. And there are tens of millions of people like me on both sides of the fictitious border created by people like you. And the geopolitical games have nothing to do with it, just one people tore it up by force.

[Kars]

Quote: Garrin

And after such an answer, you are personally uninteresting to me.

I am crying.

Quote: Garrin

ride through 2 border. and customs control

what a horror.

Quote: Garrin

just by force tore one people

Well, of course.
Remember how in the 9th company the character of Bandarchuk was called?

[Garrin]

Quote: Kars

I am crying.

What, amateur? "Men don't cry. They get upset."

[Kars]

Quote: Garrin

Men do not cry. They are upset. "

No, against the backdrop of such a personal tragedy for me

Quote: Garrin

you are personally uninteresting to me

Quote: Kars

I'm crying

[Garrin]

Quote: Kars

Remember how in the 9th company the character of Bandarchuk was called?

And what does it have to do with it? If you are hinting that a crest, no? My ancestors are from Makeevka, and she always belonged to the Lands of the Great Don Army. Both grandfathers are Russian from the Cossacks. Any questions?

[Marek Rozny]

Quote: Kars

But all the same, it is PERSONAL to me it is not clear why the economic union, the attempt to bring into political.

So far, the union will only be economic. Politics is on the agenda a bit later. How Nazarbayev likes to grill: "First the economy, then politics." And there, when everything is adjusted, it will be possible to think about the political component of the Eurasian Union. Moreover, a single economy by that time will already help us create all the foundations for a political union, which we need to counter any external threats. So that no one can destroy our economic union from external competitors, a political (more precisely, military-political) union will be needed. But so far only the economy.

[Don]

Quote: SergeySK

Need for you reading geopolitics! ! !

Not only politics. Beneficial to everyone. Trade will increase significantly.

[Don]

Quote: Kars

What for? simple to ask a question.
Why do you want to make gas cheaper? Do you want to give our plants work and so on.

Aren't you confusing anything? This is a Customs Union, not a charity. They don’t give anything to anyone for free. And why, so you yourself answered above. 20 billion profit from increase in turnover. And do not take loans from the IMF.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Kars

Belarus, in principle, is no longer as such.

Yes, it evaporated, but a little bit was left of Kazakhstan.
In the TS, ordinary citizens do not even have to pay a bribe at the borders and stand in line. Yes, you can’t hear the New Year cries about gas and oil.
In Europe, a couple of years of the crisis themselves will talk about integration with the vehicle.
China is growing, the share of Chinese goods in Europe is already substantial and continues to increase.
Kars is our Radzima nikoli not zgin.

[Kars]

Quote: saturn.mmm

Yes, you can not hear New Year's cries about gas and oil

Do you need anything? What they say will happen. And as the Old Man will not be all.

Quote: saturn.mmm

Europe is still a couple of years of crisis and they themselves will talk about integration with the vehicle

I want to see it.

Quote: saturn.mmm

China is growing, the share of Chinese goods in Europe is already substantial and continues to increase

China in the vehicle?

Quote: saturn.mmm

Kars is our Radzima nikoli not zgin

if you are sure of it.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Kars

China in the vehicle?

China is already everywhere.

Quote: Kars

if you are sure of it

Well, if another ice age.
I am not against the independence of Ukraine, only when I go to Kiev to hang around at customs I do not want to.
Yes, sort of agreed on you.

[Kars]

Quote: saturn.mmm

only when I go to Kiev I don’t feel like hanging out at customs

Go the green corridor.

Quote: saturn.mmm

Yes, sort of agreed on you

such topics I have a jumping appeal. So it gets.

can I comment? I’m not sure about the numbers, honestly, I accidentally got into a random accident when I checked an alternative story.

I present to you the blog of Volodimir Ogryzko, Minister of Foreign Affairs 2007-2009

http://blogs.pravda.com.ua/authors/ogrysko/50ed3983a2f63/
I have just read in UNIAN information about last year's economic "achievements" of an active supporter of the Customs Union - Belarus.

At the same time, we are not talking about "enemy insinuations" - the materials were provided by the National Statistical Committee of Belarus.

In particular, he said that food products there went up by 25,1%, non-food - by 10,3%, services - by 36,1%.

Among food products, the most significantly increased:

-Alcoholic beverages (by 62,3%),

- Wheat flour (by 43,4%),

-Bread and bakery products (42,2%),

-Animal oil (by 31,1%),

-Potato (by 25,6%).

Among non-food products:

-Medications (by 27,8%),

- Writing instruments (by 25,1%),

-Petrol (23,3%),

-Bicycles and motorcycles (by 14,4%), etc.

Among the services:

- Sanatorium-improving (by 89,6%),

-Services of theaters and concert halls (72,1%),

-Higher education (69%),

-Services of cinemas and video salons (by 54,6%). "

Producer prices of industrial products increased over the year by 21%, agricultural - by 29,3%, including in crop production - by 62,6%, in animal husbandry - by 20,8%. Prices in construction increased by 35,4%, while construction and assembly work rose by 42,2%, "Belstat said.

In general, inflation in Belarus in 2012 amounted to 21,8%.

Do not forget that in 2011 the Belarusian ruble "fell" almost threefold.

How not to remember the "soviet": "Happy New Year, with new happiness, dear comrades!"

So we, Ukrainians, where?

[xan]

Quote: Kars

In general, inflation in Belarus in 2012 amounted to 21,8%.

Do not forget that in 2011 the Belarusian ruble "fell" almost threefold.

How not to remember the "soviet": "Happy New Year, with new happiness, dear comrades!"

So we, Ukrainians, where?

try to avoid it, dartanyan
and we will see
Yes, Russia pro-Ukrainian Ukraine fuck is not needed, it was already
you need you and think

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Kars

I present to you the blog of Volodimir Ogryzko, Minister of Foreign Affairs 2007-2009

According to the list, something like this, only potatoes did not rise in price and in some areas it became cheaper in relation to last year.
Only now, my personal opinion, the TS has nothing to do with it. The collapse of the Belarusian ruble was even before the vehicle. But if you work in a state-owned company, it is difficult to discuss this topic.

[Kars]

Quote: Kars

but about Ukrainian politics

I look at many who even disdain the mention of the independent policy of the sovereign state of Ukraine, whose main vector should be aimed at the welfare and stability of the country.
As required.
And the fact that articles about Ukraine appear constantly already hints at something. The third article in a day. It's just pretty.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Will you twist for a long time?

What is independent about Ukrainian politics and what prevents the CU from it?

Where is the vector for improving the welfare of the country?

And by the way, as I have already said, I am not a supporter of the adoption of Ukraine in the CU! ! !

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Will you twist for a long time?

Do I owe you something?

Quote: SergeySK

What is independent about Ukrainian politics

This is a multi-vector approach and concern for a domestic manufacturer. However, this is a difficult issue, and it is not for me to discuss it.

Quote: SergeySK

And by the way, as I have already said, I am not a supporter of the adoption of Ukraine in the CU! ! !

Well, how sick do you feel?

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Well, you have no arguments except Russophobia!

Europe is Russophobic, America is Russophobic and we do not live and cooperate with them!

Why are you embarrassed to admit? So everything would fall into place and would it be easier to build vectors?

And then turn the guard rob! Nonsense!

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Well, you have no arguments except Russophobia!

As you can see, apart from neo-imperial ones, too.

Quote: SergeySK

Why are you embarrassed to admit?

I? Recognizes? Yes if honestly I love all nations and nations when they live at home, and do not touch me and my country.
As for the phobias on the scale, the United States I am phobizing much more than the Russian Federation. It is evident that the child’s psychological trauma after watching Rambo 3 (my first film in the video salon)

Quote: SergeySK

Nonsense!

Your words and attempts at argumentation are so accurate. He doesn’t need to, but he will feel sick. And most importantly, Russophobes seem to be everywhere, I will quote myself, almost like a verse happened.

Quote: Kars

If you have spoken a word, then your answer is you are a Russophobe))))

[shkodnik]

If a Russian loves Russia, he is a patriot. If a Ukrainian loves Ukraine, he is a terry Bandera nationalist.
* If a Russian says "khokhol" - he kindly sneers at the representative of the fraternal people. If a Ukrainian says "b", he thereby reveals his nationalist, anti-Russian essence.
* If a Russian rally - he defends his interests. If a Ukrainian is rallying, he will work off American money paid to him for anti-Russian purposes.

* If Russian speaks Russian, it is simply Russian. If a Ukrainian speaks the Ukrainian language, he is Petliura unfinished.
* If the president of Russia declares pro-Russian slogans, this is a normal president. If the president of Ukraine declares pro-Ukrainian slogans - he is a pro-American and anti-Russian president.
* If the Russian government does not agree with the Ukrainian government - it defends national interests. If the Ukrainian government does not agree with the Russian government - finally Abarzeli.

[xan]

why did you write so many letters?
when gas was sip for you, you considered Russians to be urachkov and drunks, remember the movie "72 meters"
Yes, and the Russian land with our people Dohera fell for you. Give it back - and there are no complaints, build your Ukraine, but without our land and people.

[- = ALEX = -]

In politics as in football ...

And it will become warmer between the East and West of Ukraine.

I expect the Russian police to meet visiting Ukrainian fans, check documents, feel, blink, take away lighters and something even more valuable. He will tell you which banners can be posted, and which can not. Moreover, its logic will be difficult to understand. It turns out that the image of "Motherland" at the Russia-Germany match is normal and there is no foolishness and provocation. And the big Ukrainian flag at the match of the Champions League “Lokomotiv” - “Dynamo” Kiev was forbidden to stretch. Purely Kremlin logic. As usual, friendly to Ukraine)))))

But this applies to those that reach. After all, someone was deployed at the border, as was the case with a couple of buses from Kiev in 2008, when people were going to the Champions League qualifying match with Spartak. But during the inspection, several Georgian flags were found.

I’m waiting for Luzhniki to, according to the Soviet moronic habit-instructions, release first the odd sectors of the upper tier, then the even lower ones, and then the even upper and only then the odd lower tiers .... Or somehow the other way around, but I know for sure that the last sectors will go out at least an hour after the end of the match. And in Kiev, by the way, the NSC Olimpiysky is released in 10-15 minutes. This is a little touch to the topic of the "general" mentality.

But I also expect from the Kremlin gnomes at least twenty million euros for every Ukrainian brother participating in this tournament. Ponty Vova, should be expensive.

For a year, we are ready to play with you for the political future of Ukraine. So that everyone in our country will finally understand everything about the “fraternal people”. It will not work anymore, since after the first scandals (someone believes that they will not be?))) This whole tournament structure will certainly fall apart. But the effect I and Ukraine need will already be obtained.

I want to note right away that I have no negative attitude towards individual representatives of Russia. Since childhood, I lived in the suburbs, then 20 years in Moscow and completely in the subject of Russian realities. Naturally, I did not live in a vacuum and I had and have friends of different nationalities. But 4 years ago he realized his dream and left for his historical Motherland. There where he was born and where it is comfortable for the soul. What I wish to everyone who is hindered by something Ukrainian in Ukraine.

A large number of adequate, interesting people live in Russia. But at the moment there are simply more than those who have a few simple installation phrases in their brains hammered by the Vremya program: “Ukraine steals gas”, “Give Crimea”, “Ukraine and Russia have one story”, “Americans paid Independence Square”, “ Bandera fascist ", etc., etc.

And while the vast majority of such clients in Russia, they certainly will not have friendship with Ukraine.

http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dneproges/404376.html

[Don]

Quote: - = ALEX = -

But this applies to those that reach. After all, someone was deployed at the border, as was the case with a couple of buses from Kiev in 2008, when people were going to the Champions League qualifying match with Spartak. But during the inspection, several Georgian flags were found.

Well, it’s right that they were seized. Pure water provocation by Dynamo ultras. You have some Bendera there.

Quote: - = ALEX = -

“Ukraine and Russia have one story”

Of course one. Read the story at your leisure.

Quote: - = ALEX = -

"Maidan paid by the Americans"

And not their funds? The people themselves in Kiev unexpectedly made bourgeois, firewood was prepared and everything is free. And not the Democracy Development Assistance Fund, the Soros Foundation, Berezovsky all paid for it.

Quote: - = ALEX = -

"Bandera fascist"

And what not? Wasn’t his fascist ideology?

[Skavron]

And, I’ll support Kars, Ukraine certainly doesn’t compare in resources with Russia, but nevertheless it has good deposits of strategically important products. As well as a good metallurgical, engineering base. Processing industry. I’m silent for food and agriculture.

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

And what ?? Kazakhstan has all this for more than in Ukraine will be and where is the expansion ????

And the Belarusian agro-industry on the Russian shelves can’t do it!

Where is the logic ????

[Skavron]

Quote: SergeySK

Where is the logic ????

And that is the logic that you buy without a vehicle.
And why do we need it then?

[xan]

Skavron,
so your premieres and not mine want something, what questions?
Build your Ukraine without a vehicle, someone forcibly pulls you there?
Nothing personal just business

[Kars]

Quote: Skavron

Ukraine certainly does not compare in resources with Russia,

Well, it’s clear to us that Sergeisk already wrote that they need us as cannon fodder in their great empire geopolitical games.

I personally see Ukraine as a non-aligned country, with an economy aimed at the agricultural sector. Without smartphones and grandfather panels it is easier to live than without bread and milk. And the demand for agricultural products is growing.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Now the vector to the countries of the third world is clear!

Only they can afford an independent pro-Somali policy!
The tops lay out the cardiac help in the pockets of the lower classes for earnings in the ocean leave!
Doesn’t it remind ?????

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Now the vector to the countries of the third world is clear!

Just countries, you know, the Third World, the First World, is not beautiful. Without nuclear weapons, what kind of world will you be?

Quote: SergeySK

The tops lay out the cardiac help in the pockets of the lower classes for earnings in the ocean leave!

Like if we lie under the Russian Federation something will change.

Quote: SergeySK

Doesn’t it remind ?????

Russia before the jump in oil prices?

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Under the EU, you yourself lay down apparently convinced that something will change?

Or your self-interest someone else is interested in?

And apparently you are sure that in a place to turn you into a market for your own production, they will rush to develop yours and bend your own ???

It’s all the same to bend down there whether or not it’s the essence of bending where you want, just you stubbornly do not want to admit that no one perceives you as a strong independent player!
In this capacity (troublemaker) you are not needed either here or there!
Neither the EU nor Russia will give you the right to steer, but what choice do you give me a damn!

I would like an honest and intelligible answer to the question "What is about Ukrainian politics and WHAT DOES the TS interfere with it?"

In addition to evasions, I didn’t hear anything!

[Skavron]

Quote: SergeySK

"What is about Ukrainian politics and WHAT DOES the Customs Union interfere with it?"

And without the vehicle, Ukrainian products with high added value, such as "machines and mechanisms", are successfully sold to the Russian market. By the way, winning tenders from Russian competitors.
What will change, enter Ukraine in the vehicle?

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

I have already heard questions! And honestly answered them!

And why are they "embarrassed" to answer my question?

Well, take courage and do not ask a question, but directly describe what is about Ukrainian politics and what prevents the TC from it!

Your vision and not mine!

And how is the EU (in many respects a political one that does not recognize differences with the position of Brussels) better than a purely economic TS?

Again, your vision does not need to send me to my opinion!

There is no need to carry nonsense about expansion! Neither Kazakhstan nor Belarus did not undergo expansion!

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

What will change, enter Ukraine in the vehicle?

A lot of things will change. Seriously, no banter. These "machines and mechanisms" products feed the oligarch and (a little) the workers of his plant. Well, a little bit of people from Kiev, as taxes are paid at the location of the head office. The rest of Ukraine gets a donut hole. Haven't even tried to order a hacksaw on an Internet store in the Russian Federation? Customs wrapping + postage will come out more than the price of that hacksaw. And this will not hit the pocket of the oligarch. And so - in almost everything. The customs officer at the border has a volume with him listing what and how much one can carry with him, almost as thick as "War and Peace". And this, too, is by no means hitting the elite ...

[dirty trick]

Quote: Misantrop

Customs wrap + postage will be higher than the price of that hacksaw.

but it’s as if it’s a question of removing customs wrapping from this equation? is it bad?

[xan]

Skavron,
I'm in shock. I repeat once again for those who are on an armored train, Yanyk wants something from Pu, and not vice versa
do not join the vehicle

[Don]

Quote: Skavron

What will change, enter Ukraine in the vehicle?

They will not take duties from her. This is even more beneficial for our manufacturers.

Quote: Skavron

By the way, winning tenders from Russian competitors.

Well, so do we buy engineering products from them.

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Under the EU, you yourself lay down apparently convinced that something will change?

What makes you think that we are striving for LECH?
For example, for many years already, the requirement to raise energy prices for the population, Timoshenko with lucicum, and so on, has not been fulfilled.

and Ukraine will not become a member of the EU in the foreseeable future.

Quote: SergeySK

And your self-interest is someone else interested?

This is not our problem.

Quote: SergeySK

You still have to bend down

This tells you personal life experience.?

Quote: SergeySK

Neither the EU nor Russia will allow you to steer

Who to steer? Is it your mania to steer someone? An inferiority complex?

Quote: SergeySK

I would like an honest and intelligible answer to the question "What is about Ukrainian politics and WHAT DOES the TS interfere with it?"

In addition to evasions, I didn’t hear anything!

You are just too weakly mentally developed to understand simple truths. But at the level understandable to the student explained

Quote: Kars

And as such, there is nothing wrong with the TS, as the conditions of entry will become beneficial for us, we’ll enter

But once again I will not repeat with your mind and logic. I sincerely sympathize with your associates.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

From the experience of inter-state relations! If Russia, the US and the EU want relations with each other, they have to cave in on each other's interests!

To steer political processes is the INDEPENDENT POLICY! I repeat to you in no Union no one will allow to steer!
Apparently you are too weakly mentally developed to understand this!

And the third you will enter any Union only when the conditions of your entry will be beneficial to existing members! And no other way!

Apparently not with your logic and mind to realize this! Sympathize with you !

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

If Russia, the US and the EU want relations with each other, they have to cave in on each other's interests!

Then I do not understand what you see problems?

Quote: SergeySK

To steer political processes is the INDEPENDENT POLICY

Who is stopping us from steering at home? And in the world we are not pretending.

Quote: SergeySK

I repeat to you in no Union no one will allow to steer!

That's it, YOU want to steer there, and if you steer, you will be worried about OUR interests.

Quote: SergeySK

And the third you will enter any Union only when the conditions of your entry will be beneficial to existing members! And not otherwise

Is such a word familiar?
- MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL--

Quote: SergeySK

Apparently not with your logic and mind to realize this! Sympathize with you !

Of course, it’s up to yours to degrade and degrade me. Spin like a swivel.

Quote: SergeySK

You still have to bend down

Quote: SergeySK

Russia USA and EU want relations with each other they have to cave in

Didn’t get yourself to be unbendable to set? Okay, free.

[Garrin]

Quote: Kars

Okay, free.

But why be rude?

[dirty trick]

read. laughed.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Kars

Timoshenikha with lutsik graying

The whole trouble is that they are sitting on frankly delusional articles. And this despite the fact that the same Tymoshenko for her actual "art" will be enough for three life sentences. But ... not a single judge will dare to voice them (or will not live to see the evening) Or not?

[Kars]

Quote: Misantrop

Or not?

you know better.

[huut]

Kars, can it make sense to return to articles on armored vehicles?) Your political views are less popular.

[Kars]

Quote: huut

Kars, can it make sense to return to articles on armored vehicles?) Your political views are less popular

+
Thank you for your concern. But I do not like to measure, and I do not hide my political views.

[Don]

Quote: Kars

Just countries, you know, the Third World, the First World, is not beautiful. Without nuclear weapons, what kind of world will you be?

They will be there without nuclear weapons. They still have the 6th world economy and great political weight.

Quote: Kars

Russia before the jump in oil prices?

Let’s already without these hackneyed myths.

[Sashatula]

The EU is unlikely to need another agrarian power. They are cracking all kinds of chemistry more and more. It’s in the Russian Federation that the people haven’t managed to break the habit of using natural products. And the United States and Canada will not allow them to sell grain to Africa and Asia; they have their own business there. Well, yes it is - a retreat.
Is expansion into the Ukrainian economy a bad thing? Not loans and the status of an eternal debtor and bankrupt, but an investment of money.
The oligarchs are probably bad, but for ordinary people?
The multi-vector approach is not encouraged now, and on both sides they demand to decide differently - they will devour. Are there few "orange revolutions" or do you want to get into the sphere of controlled chaos?

[SergeySK]

Sashatula,

+ You

On my own, I’ll add that we don’t have any problems with the fact that we have GEOPOLITICAL ENEMIES with their own money to build factories and develop industries!
And here the priests will not rob feed, and even God forbid, they will force us to speak Russian!

Well, I can’t wait for you to enter the EU. I want to see what place they will show you!

Like waving the flag of Ukrainian independent politics, you will sing "Brussels Songs"!

Poland has already demonstrated an independent policy now "it hurts to sit down"!

[Skavron]

Quote: Kars

And the demand trends for agricultural products are growing.

By the way, the expansion of Ukrainian agricultural holdings into the Russian market is exactly what causes all kinds of "cheese wars".

And past the agricultural sector, Ukraine also has machine building, metallurgy, coal mining ... and plus titanium and uranium. Only on this can you feel comfortable surrounded by such neighbors as the EU and Russia.

I am by no means a Russophobe, I was just fed up with absolute lack of independence + constant talk that Ukraine needs to enter somewhere.

What Ukraine really lacks is a new, self-confident leader, not burdened with any "clan-business" obligations!

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

so this is a new, self-confident leader, not burdened with any "clan-business" obligations!

With such a volume of external debt, the head of the Rockefeller clan at this post will feel uncomfortable. And who will allow someone to come to power from the outside? It was only Litvin who managed to sit in the speakers for a whole period. But, in addition to the Duma buns, he didn’t have anything from this in the end.

Quote: Skavron

constant talk that Ukraine needs to enter somewhere.

I didn’t have to watch the picture at the station: everyone is going somewhere, but one poor fellow got up in the middle and scratched his turnip? It bothers everyone, they cling to him, and he breaks off, that everyone pushes him ... That's about the same

[Skavron]

Quote: Misantrop

I did not have to watch the picture at the station:

Well, you compared ...

I do not put cons, but I would like to)

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

Well, you compared ...

And with what else to compare? The center of Eurasia, trodden by the shortest routes for centuries. But Ukraine is hanging out in the middle (I will not write like that), and it is not clear where it will swing in the next minute. Almost every month - new rules of the game according to the rules of transportation, transit, etc. Despite the fact that the transport services provided by her herself are losing quality literally before our eyes (there is no money for repairs and updates). Speaking of the station, have you had to compare the same passenger trains of Ukraine and the Russian Federation for a long time? Really different generations. And so - in any industry, no matter what. Or am I exaggerating?

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

"Cheese wars" is when for half a year your agricultural industry could not understand that on products made from powdered milk and palm oil you should write not "CHEESE" but "CHEESE PRODUCT"?

Ours write "SPREAD" and not "OIL" and why do you need indulgences ????

[Skavron]

Well, half a year the labels have not been changed, and then other labels began to be made. What has changed besides labels? Price? Nifiga she has not changed. But the whole OP around this was aimed precisely at discrediting the Ukrainian product.

[Don]

Quote: Skavron

And past the agricultural sector, Ukraine also has machine building, metallurgy, coal mining ... and plus titanium and uranium. Only on this can you feel comfortable surrounded by such neighbors as the EU and Russia.

Well, many have metallurgy and mechanical engineering. we have little titanium, unlike the Russian Federation, as well as Uranus. But the main thing is different. Mining minerals will not be calm. DR Congo also has a lot of color and rare-earth minerals, but it doesn’t make them calmer.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Kars

I personally see Ukraine as an extra-bloc strange country with an economy aimed at the agricultural sector

Well, they would have written right away: "in a coffin and white slippers" Get out to a busy intersection and try to plant a garden there ... And then matyagayut on passing that the beds trample At an intersection, you can only be a traffic controller, or a source of accidents. So there will be either a serious power, whose interests others will have to reckon with, or ... a wild field, as has happened many times in history. It was not possible to build the state by itself, the starting opportunities were pissed away (not without the help of the West). Strong allies are needed. Shall we continue to hope for Europe (despite the fact that that now has its own problems - above its head) or will we still try to return "home"? Not yet "Square" walk up in European whores?

[Skavron]

Misantrop What area will you be from?

Is the agricultural sector bad?
Food is one of the most important resources. Quality food is just a bonanza!
I recommend reading on the Internet about "Myronivsky Hliboproduct", "Avangard", "Agromars" ...

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

Misantrop What area will you be from?

Is the agricultural sector bad?

From the Crimea. The agricultural sector is good when it is. And when even 80% fruit per season even in Crimea - imported, what kind of agricultural sector can we talk about? Even imported fat, have come ...

Quote: Skavron

I recommend reading on the Internet about "Myronivsky Hliboproduct", "Avangard", "Agromars" ...

To hell I read it on the Internet, I would like to see it on the shelves. On the Internet you can read about Rothschild, only you will not get richer from this

[Skavron]

Misantrop, so develop your Crimea !!!

Quote: Misantrop

only you will not get richer from this

and get rich))))

[Kars]

Quote: Misantrop

Get out to a busy intersection and try to breed a garden there

See you again in the trenches not teritsa?

I personally do not want my son to serve in the army with all sorts of testes, and so on.

Quote: Misantrop

The power itself failed to build

They have been singing this mantra for 20 years, and the most difficult years have already passed.

Quote: Misantrop

We will continue to hope for Europe

Who is hoping for her? Which goal is without their loans, and the Russian Federation also does not make sense. There is no need for herself.

[Don]

Quote: Kars

with an economy aimed at the agricultural sector.

Interesting. All countries of the world have always sought to become from industrial post-industrial, and you propose from industrial-agrarian to become agrarian-industrial? Do not you think that this is a step back. To develop the agricultural industry to the level of, for example, France or Argentina is one thing, but you offer a completely different one.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

I’m silent for food and agriculture.

Well, it’s better to keep quiet about it. There is little that can be said good, but I don’t want to write bad ... The shelves are littered with Polish and Turkish products, their quality often leaves much to be desired. Now the merchants have a new topic - open stores of Belarusian food products. Despite the fact that they are slightly more expensive than Polish and Ukrainian, the quality differs significantly

[Skavron]

Quote: Misantrop

Shelves are littered with Polish and Turkish products, their quality often leaves much to be desired.

I have a suspicion that you do NOT live in Ukraine ...
Personally, I constantly find domestic food in stores. Imported at times more expensive.

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

At us it is also more expensive! And?

[Skavron]

So what?
I answered my colleague, otherwise he couldn’t find inexpensive, high-quality, domestic food in Ukrainian stores)))

[Vladimir 70]

I answered my colleague, otherwise he couldn’t find inexpensive, high-quality, domestic food in Ukrainian stores

But it’s possible on specifics about quality, domestic food. The truth is interesting. We’ll keep silent about milk, all meat processing plants work on imported raw materials ......

[Skavron]

I list:
flour, cereals, pasta, stew, pork, chicken, eggs, butter, fruits (except tropical), vegetables, sugar

Quote: Vladimir 70

all meat plants operate on imported raw materials ......

Only in the manufacture of cheap varieties of sausages and all kinds of pastes.

[Vladimir 70]

I list:
flour, cereals, pasta, stew, pork, chicken, eggs, butter, fruits (except tropical), vegetables, sugar

Flour, cereals, pasta - I agree. Although if you recall the Chinese buckwheat. Well here it is clear, the guys decided to make money on the hype. Stew, pork - imported raw materials. Try to compare the Belarusian and our stew. I compared. As they say in Odessa, there are two big differences and the cost of Ukrainian stew does not matter. Chicken, eggs Look at what chickens are fed with, you just don’t have to talk about quality. Oil- there is everything except milk. Fruits, vegetables, sugar - here I agree recently our fruits and vegetables began to supplant imports.

Only in the manufacture of cheap varieties of sausages and all kinds of pastes.

You're wrong. Only meat imports go to meat processing plants! Poland, Holland, Brazil .... The data is accurate. In cheap sausages, there is no meat at all.

[Skavron]

Yes, by the way, I also forgot the pastry ... even now, coming to the "poorest city in the world" Moscow, I bring with me "Roshen" sweets, natural honey and Artyomovsk champagne (red) ... a sensation ...

Quote: Vladimir 70

Stew, pork - imported raw materials

I must have gone blind, but not far from my city there is a huge pig-breeding complex, immediately processed and immediately transported to company stores. "Meat Spring" is called

Quote: Vladimir 70

Butter - there is everything except milk

Yes, if you take in the store for 9UAH. per pack. Konstantinovsky pier. the plant makes real cow butter. It’s a pity that the enterprise is of a purely regional scale. By the way, they have ryazhenka - like grandmothers on the market, only the baked foam is not enough)

Quote: Vladimir 70

Look at what chickens are fed with, you just don’t have to talk about quality.

Than? I'm afraid that the same as in the whole world)))

[Vladimir 70]

Skavron, I will try the products and write.

[Skavron]

but I would recommend alcohol of own production)))))

[Vladimir 70]

Thanks for the advice. I make the wine myself and it turns out pretty good.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

Imported at times more expensive.

It is at times? Don't you confuse anything? It’s a pity that photography is forbidden in stores ... By the way, are there many hundreds of domestic ice cream varieties that are NOT made with coconut oil? What about cheese? It should spread in boiling water, and not just soften (the other day a little cheese soup because of this did not ruin). But the reason is the same - coconut oil has a higher temperature threshold. Or if you didn’t immediately get poisoned, then is the quality obvious?

Baby cream (natural, without preservatives, this is specifically indicated on the label) was forgotten for a week on a sunny windowsill. They thought that kirdyk came to them. But hell, absolutely not changed. Is this NATURAL? Or take a beer. In Soviet times, the shelf life of even a bottle was about a week. The present, even in plastic, is YEAR. Where is the naturalness here?

[Kars]

Quote: Misantrop

What are NOT cooked in coconut oil?

And the toad will not crush you to pay the present price?
Then read the label carefully and everything is there.

Quote: Misantrop

But the reason is the same - coconut oil has a higher temperature threshold

Greedy and bought a cheese product?

[SergeySK]

Kars,

I do not eat SPREAD or your Palm Cheese! Apparently you can't afford it since you throw such products on the table!

And apparently this is your producer, the toad is eating races so far I do not see either your Cheese or your Butter on our shelves!

Apparently spreads on the domestic market are more profitable for them than trading in kind with Russia!

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

I eat neither "SPREAD" nor your palm "Cheese"

well done.

Quote: SergeySK

Apparently you can’t afford it if you are tossed such products on the table!

You see, too, if we (even though we did not prove it) drove it to you with wagons.

Quote: SergeySK

your Cheese or your Butter on our shelves!

Then he would rush into the TS so that the borders become more translucent)))

Quote: SergeySK

Apparently spreads on the domestic market are more profitable for them than trading in kind with Russia!

probably you will be in the science that you can produce both. Also, as in the dairy market, there are niches for expensive and cheap goods.


But I understand you perfectly. You infuriate that some kind of Ukraine is twirling its nose before your call from the Barsky shoulder of the Great Roses. You are such benefactors who want to nourish us with cheap gases and we are negotiating.
It’s just not enough for you in your tiny brain - that someone will reread to you (the Russian Federation, the Pose empire).
Calm down, drink valerian, snack Kostroma cheese

[SergeySK]

Kars,

I’m almost enraged that you’re twisting something there, as I said, I am against the entry of Ukraine into the CU!
But why am I against me?

I want you to clarify with no questions and answers a question to a question WHAT IS UKRAINE'S INDEPENDENT POLICY AND WHAT DOES THE HARDWARE HAVE TO IT ????

Well, at least thesis?

[SergeySK]

SergeySK,

How will the reduction or complete abolition of CUSTOMS Duties prevent you from pursuing an independent policy?

But in the documents on the vehicle nothing is said about anything else!

http://www.keden.kz/ru/tamkodex_tamsouz.php

And how will the abolition of customs duties lead to the purchase of your industry by our aligarchs ??

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

It almost annoys me that you

Then what are you doing here? Why vomit? Especially if you are against the vehicle.

Quote: SergeySK

WHAT IS UKRAINE'S INDEPENDENT POLICY AND WHAT DOES THE HARDWARE HAVE TO IT ????

You are a strange person. Five times they answered you. But you are frankly stupid.

The Supreme Eurasian Economic Council The main body of the EurAsEC Customs Union is the Higher Eurasian Economic Council - the EurAsEC Interstate Council, composed of representatives of the member countries of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. The council includes the heads of state and government of the Customs Union. The Supreme Council meets at the level of heads of state at least once a year, at the level of heads of government - at least twice a year. Decisions are taken by consensus. Decisions made are binding on all participating States. The Council determines the composition and powers of other regulatory structures of the Customs Union

1. The main tasks of the Integration Committee:
ensuring the interaction of EurAsEC bodies;
preparation of proposals on the agenda of meetings of the Interstate Council and the level of their conduct, as well as draft decisions and documents;
preparation of proposals for the formation of the EurAsEC budget and control over its implementation;
control over the implementation of decisions adopted by the Interstate Council.

Decision Making Procedure
1. The Interstate Council adopts all decisions by consensus, with the exception of decisions on suspension of membership or on exclusion from members of the Community, which are adopted on the principle of "consensus minus the vote of the Contracting Party concerned".
2. In the Integration Committee decisions are made by a majority of 2-3 votes. If five Contracting Parties voted for the decision, but at the same time it did not gain a majority of 2/3 of the votes, the question is referred to the Interstate Council. The number of votes of each of the Contracting Parties corresponds to its share contribution to the Community budget for the maintenance of EurAsEC bodies, financing of meetings of the Community bodies and the Commission of Permanent Representatives to the EurAsEC, and is:
Republic of Belarus - 15 votes;
Republic of Kazakhstan - 15 votes;
Kyrgyz Republic - 7,5 votes;
Russian Federation - 40 votes;
Republic of Tajikistan - 7,5 votes;
Republic of Uzbekistan - 15 votes.

I hope you know how to read, then what to think already vryatli.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

You beguiled it and do not know how to read!

EurAsEC where no one calls you to is not a vehicle!

Go learn the mat part!

In the CU there is neither Kyrgyzstan with 7,5 votes nor Tajikistan with 7,5 nor Uzbekistan with 15.

Before flogging nonsense, read the provisions of the vehicle!

http://www.keden.kz/ru/tamkodex_tamsouz.php

[biglow]

Misantrop,
Ukraine is full of local food, even in Kiev and Donetsk in all kinds of supermarkets.
Turkish only fruits and vegetables from those that we don’t grow already. Polish meat, it has been sold for a long time, there is also local meat, so do not exaggerate

[Misantrop]

Quote: biglow

Ukraine is full of local food, even in Kiev and Donetsk in all kinds of supermarkets.

It's too far for me with a basket to go to Kiev or Donetsk, alas. And the concepts "not poisoned" and "quality" are far from identical. If you want exactly high-quality, I recommend not to spare your time and look for something from the real Belarusian goods of this range. My answer is that the time and money will be well spent.

Quote: biglow

Turkish only fruits and vegetables from those that we do not grow

I report potatoes, apples, grapes, apricots, peaches, garlic, etc. Until recently, they grew splendidly in Ukraine. And in the Crimea - even more so. Not only were they exported to the Kremlin, even to France (and those who were famous gourmets). Since then, neither climate nor soil have changed ...

[SergeySK]

Misantrop,

Puff you mahanuli potatoes - grapes grew! Agro-industry is the most expensive and low-profit industry!
It’s easier to ruin than to contact her!

Not a single aligarch in his mind can invest in it! Tolley bought a business, he brought it, sold it - he bought it, he bought it, he sold half a year and a millionaire! And you apples to France ha ha ha!

[Skavron]

Links for Misantrop and SergeySK
http://www.mhp.com.ua/ru/operations/sooo-druzhba-narodov
http://www.mhp.com.ua/ru/about
http://www.mhp.com.ua/ru/operations/zao-krimskaja-fruktovaja-kompanija
The first and third link is Crimea.
All one holding. Misantrop, can you check and resolve my doubts? )))
and add
http://avangard.co.ua/rus/

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

I did not try to find out what you eat there.

I asked to clarify to me what the reduction or complete abolition of customs duties (and the documents on the Customs Union say nothing else) will prevent Ukraine from pursuing an independent policy?

http://www.keden.kz/ru/tamkodex_tamsouz.php

And how canceling customs duties lead to the purchase of your industry by our aligarchs ??

I’m swelling with you two simple questions based on your theses against entry and not a single intelligible answer, only rudeness and questions to the question!

[Skavron]

Quote: SergeySK

I did not try to find out what you eat there.

To you too ... this is about:

Quote: SergeySK

Not a single aligarch in his mind can invest in it! Tolley bought a business, he brought it, sold it - he bought it, he bought it, he sold half a year and a millionaire! And you apples to France ha ha ha!

Quote: SergeySK

only rudeness

I do not seem rude)

Quote: SergeySK

complete abolition of customs duties

It’s not just about duties, is it right? Any international economic organization is a certain framework, i.e. in addition to direct benefits, this will have its consequences. And not all the consequences will be pleasant. The same Russian goods will go at lower prices, strangling local producers. In some areas - this is undoubtedly a plus, in others - a strong minus.
It is much more correct to create an economy with which it would not be scary to pay for Russian gas at European prices. And Russia is good and no one will poke us in ... we will not.

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

Well ????

How does this lead to the purchase of your industry by our aligarchs ???

In addition, customs duties on similar goods are almost parity, and their cancellation essentially does not change anything in price parity!

And here is something else that I didn’t notice that in Kazakhstan or Belarus at least one industry was bent after joining the CU!

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

It is much more correct to create an economy with which it would not be scary to pay for Russian gas at European prices.

But such an economy is not being created in any way. And the further, the less chances that it will ever be created. Strange, isn't it? Moreover, I will reveal a terrible secret: Ukraine might not have bought gas at all, especially if Yushchenko had not given Romania the gas-bearing shelf of Zmeiny Island. Ukraine exports Crimean gas (and at a very high price, Gazprom is resting), and instead of it, imported Turkmen gas goes to Crimea and Ukraine. For what? And everything is very simple - Crimean is much higher in energy intensity, that's why the price is different. One and the same kettle on the same gas stove in the Black Sea (where there is local gas in the pipes) boils in 5 minutes, and in Simferopol - in 15, is there a difference? And ALL end consumers of Ukraine pay for this "gas simulator", and profits from the export of high-quality gas go to several pockets of oligarchs. Here's an interesting alignment ...

Quote: Skavron

The same Russian goods will go at lower prices, strangling local producers.

The fact is that cheaper Russian goods will be in those industries that have already "lay down" in Ukraine, having been replaced by cheap imports from Turkey or Poland. .So if there is competition to anyone, it will be a reseller. Now, those in which local producers were initially stronger are still afloat (it is due to this that they survive)

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

I’m not getting any clear answers from you either?

Did you hike on these issues too?

[Skavron]

They answered you more than once.
Ukraine will be able to develop perfectly without any economic alliances.
Any union is a condition that is not always acceptable, but which will have to be fulfilled ...

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

Subtract then both ??

How canceling customs duties lead to the purchase of your industry by our aligarchs ???

[Skavron]

Quote: SergeySK

How canceling customs duties lead to the purchase of your industry by our aligarchs ???

Did I say that?
Find and confirm.
And while I'm going to smoke)))

[SergeySK]

Skavron,

I didn’t say what you personally said (Kars said) I thought maybe you will answer this question!

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

and didn’t say what you personally said (Kars said) I thought maybe you will answer this question

Where? Something you cheat.

if you are so misinterpreting my words that when united, the Russian aligarchs will have more levers of influence and preferences, then I said that (though we talked about a closer unification)

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

abolition of customs duties

Why are you stupid? Why did you get the idea that the CU is just the abolition of customs duties? Can you remember the supra-state entities? About the voting quotation when making decisions.

In general, you are a strange, weak-minded person. Go learn the mate part.

[SergeySK]

Kars,

I repeat before stupid and laying out the provisions of the EurAsEC where no one invites you to study documents specifically on the CU!

Nothing but customs representatives says it!

http://www.keden.kz/ru/tamkodex_tamsouz.php

And then show where there are over state bodies and voting quotes !!!

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

http://www.keden.kz/ru/tamkodex_tamsouz.php

You are really a brake, and hopeless.

application
to the Customs Code Agreement
Customs Union adopted
Decision of the Interstate Council
Eurasian Economic Community
(the highest authority of the customs union)
at the level of heads of state
dated November 27, 2009 N 17

I am sincerely sorry for you. Maybe you’ll come up with why

Quote: Kars

If the decision of the Contracting Parties voted for the decision, but at the same time it did not gain a majority of 2/3 of the vote, the question is referred to the Interstate Council.

Advice, courts, if everything is decided by the Code, and it is a bible that is immutable. And for this code to be spread, they must be part of the system.

By the way, who are you by profession? whom do you work with?

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Che you don’t catch up with this part of you does not concern you are not a member of the EurAsEC! We, as members of this organization, are forced to create a certain authority, since we have certain obligations, including customs obligations with the EurAsEC participants!

The TC commission includes three secretaries, one from each participating country!


2. Customs regulation in the Customs Union is carried out in accordance with the customs legislation of the Customs Union, and to the extent not regulated by such legislation, until the establishment of the relevant legal relations at the level of the customs legislation of the Customs Union, in accordance with the legislation of the Member States of the Customs Union.

The official bodies of the CU are state ministries and departments of the participating countries!

http://www.keden.kz/ru/gosorg_strants.php

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

Che you don’t catch up with this part of you does not concern you are not a member of the EurAsEC!

The TC commission includes three secretaries, one from each participating country!

Are you pretending or really like that?

If this is not the case with us, then why are you posting it?

Quote: SergeySK

such legislation, until the establishment of appropriate legal relations at the level of the customs legislation of the Customs Union, in accordance with the legislation of the Member States of the Customs Union.

BEFORE.
BEFORE.
BEFORE.

AND MEMBER OF THE CUSTOMS UNION.
Which basement did you let out of?

[SergeySK]

Kars,

Yes, you are definitely not far away!

Neither Kygystat nor Uzbekistan nor Tajikistan are members of the CU!

But as we and Kazakhstan are members of the EurAsEC, and for the coordination of customs issues between the participants of these two organizations, an EurAsEC commission has been created!

You are not a member of the EurAsEC in this commission will not enter! And you will solve all issues including customs with the above-mentioned states not included in the CU on your own directly with no quotas!

Let's say your decision to cancel or increase all customs duties with Kyrgyzstan is your decision and is not regulated by the Customs Union in any way! And even more so by the EurAsEC Commission!

So what is the EurAsEC Commission ???? And no longer refer to the provision on it, nor any quotas in it threaten you!

[Kars]

Quote: SergeySK

You are not a member of the EurAsEC in this commission will not enter!

And where did you get the idea that we can enter the TS without becoming a member

A customs union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community is a form of trade and economic integration of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia, providing for a single customs territory, within which customs duties and economic restrictions are not applied in mutual trade in goods, except for special protective, antidumping and countervailing measures. At the same time, member countries of the customs union apply a single customs tariff and other uniform measures for regulating the trade in goods with third countries.

The official documents of the EurAsEC use the name “Customs Union within the framework of the Eurasian Economic Community” or, more often, simply “Customs Union”. The unofficial names “Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan”, “Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia”, etc. are distributed in the press.

The Supreme Eurasian Economic Council The main body of the EurAsEC Customs Union is the Higher Eurasian Economic Council - the EurAsEC Interstate Council, composed of representatives of the member countries of the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space. The council includes the heads of state and government of the Customs Union. The Supreme Council meets at the level of heads of state at least once a year, at the level of heads of government - at least twice a year. Decisions are taken by consensus. Decisions made are binding on all participating States. The Council determines the composition and powers of other regulatory structures of the Customs Union.

Call a member of the TS who is not a member of EuroZES

At a meeting on April 11, 2011, the Government of the Kyrgyz Republic decided to begin the procedure for the republic to join the Customs Union. [22] By the decision of the EurAsEC Interstate Council on October 19, 2011, a working group was created on the participation of the Kyrgyz Republic in the Customs Union. [23] It is planned that by December 1, 2013, the working group will complete an analysis of the legislation, foreign trade obligations and the state of the customs infrastructure of Kyrgyzstan, as well as evaluate the economic effect and consequences of joining the Republic to the EurAsEC Customs Union. Based on the results of this analysis, the EEC will send a “road map” to the Government of Kyrgyzstan with a list of activities required for the country to join the CU

You decrypt the vehicle correctly

But what, in principle, is suitable for us according to anology.

The Eurasian Economic Commission and the CU countries are conducting consultations or negotiations with a number of countries and trade organizations on issues related to the possibility of concluding free trade agreements.

Vietnam
In a joint statement on September 10, 2012, Vietnam and the ECE announced the positive outcome of preliminary consultations on the feasibility of concluding a free trade agreement between Vietnam and the Customs Union. The parties intend to begin negotiations in the first quarter of 2013

[Misantrop]

Quote: Kars

TS is only the abolition of customs duties? Can you remember about supranational entities?

Maybe it makes sense to recall that customs duties directly affect the wallet of the final consumer (i.e., an ordinary citizen), and the quotation kicks into the pockets, first of all, of the oligarchs-owners. In other words, the union is beneficial to citizens, but for nouveau riche leaders it is a noose.

[Kars]

Quote: Misantrop

that customs duties directly affect the wallet of the final consumer

And what about remembering that the customs went just filling the budget.

Quote: Misantrop

quotation kicks in the pockets, first of all, of the oligarchs-owners.

just not necessarily, or rather even with what joy? Their goods will also be sold without duties, and raw materials will be imported without duties.
But for the final price for the consumer, this is in no way affected. Prices are regulated not only by duties.

Quote: Misantrop

In other words, the union is beneficial to citizens, but for nouveau riche leaders it is a noose.

Are you a submariner? Are you taught economics there?

[Misantrop]

Quote: Kars

customs went just fill the budget.

... mostly customs officers themselves The contractor lifting the barrier on the Polish border has more in his pocket than officially in a year. And this is a border guard, compared to a customs officer he is a beggar (infa from those who go to check these outposts)

Quote: Kars

even with what joy?

And then why do they rest against it? It’s not so simple ...

Quote: Kars

Are you a submariner?

I retired in 1993. And these 20 years he did not sit in the cellar, fencing off from the world

[Kars]

Quote: Misantrop

mostly customs officers themselves

This is corruption, and the arrival of the Customs Union does not change the income of the customs officer on the border with Poland.

But with

“In 2012, the customs of Ukraine will have to transfer 122 billion hryvnias to the budget

Take an interest in finding out more precisely.

Quote: Misantrop

And then why do they rest against it? It’s not so simple ...

Well, certainly not because of the cancellation of duties. Try to prove that the abolition of duties is unprofitable for them.

Quote: Misantrop

And these 20 years he did not sit in the cellar, fencing off from the world

From this knowledge of the economy will not improve.

but for example, the abolition of duties on some Russian goods may result in our manufacturers becoming uncompetitive, and they will simply cut production and drive people outside. And when the Russian producers dobudits eliminate competitors, they will raise prices. At the same time, with the current approach, Ukraine does not will be able to defend their interests with a quantitative preponderance of the votes of the Russian Federation with pocket Belarus.

this is such a small example. But nothing will change for us on the territory of the Russian Federation, just as there were quotas for pipes, they will remain so.

[xan]

Skavron,
so develop, who does not give you?
that yours are constantly running to Moscow instead of developing.

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

we can check

And what is there to check? The former rather good state farm "Friendship of the peoples". The village of Petrovka, Krasnogvardeisky district. Now he has instructed small trays throughout Simferopol, sells cheeses and sausages. Small pavilions for 1-2 sellers. What can I say, you will not get poisoned, although not the best quality. And the prices there are quite "biting" for the bulk of the population. From this assortment I prefer this:
http://skvortsovo.com.ua/
Prices are about the same, but the quality and taste are different for the better.

With regards to fruit, what is now there is tears in comparison with what it was at least 10 years ago. Gardens are getting old, they need to be updated, and nobody cares. And now you can really meet a Turkish apple in the markets of Simferopol more often than the local one. And it will look prettier (though often cheaper). It tastes Turkish, though like cotton wool, but visitors buy it. The same picture applies to other fruits and vegetables. The potato degenerates, the breeding station was ruined. So Crimea sits more on imported. Sometimes from Sumy, Vinnitsa, etc. areas of the machine with potatoes come. Cheaper than the local, and not to say worse. So estimate the price level if it is profitable to drive a car through half the country ...

[SergeySK]

Misantrop,

Well, here's how we turn to real documents, the arguments end and run away!

Well I said that there are no rational reasons for refusing to join the vehicle!

There is Russophobia, which is usually replaced by the phrase "Ukraine itself can develop without any unions" even if this union promises not small profits!

And the assertion that Russian capital will be bought up by Ukrainian industry is just a horror story for those who are too lazy to read the provisions of the CU! But at least they are wary of Russia!

[Skavron]

Well, your example only confirms that if you wish, you can build not bad enterprises in the agricultural sector.
And make money with them. And that you are not developing your Crimea, so take the initiative. But to wait for the manna from heaven from the government or entry into the CU or the EU or some other union, at least not correctly ....

[Misantrop]

Quote: Skavron

And you don’t develop your own Crimea

Probably for the same reason that you did not make Ukraine a strong prosperous state Do not give. As soon as the enterprise reaches the level "just above the plinth", "not quite polite" guys appear right there ... Continue further? Need an example? Wine and vodka factory "Soyuz-Victan". It rose, developed, gave a good profit to the owner and the budget of the Crimea. While making a very high quality product. The owner was first imprisoned, and when it did not help, they shot him (he lived in Maryino near Simferopol, knew him a little). Now this plant brings profit to Kiev, drives an outright sivukha, and Crimea gets only empty bottles. Such examples are the car

[morpex]

Well, it’s better to keep quiet about it. There is little that can be said good, but I don’t want to write bad ... The shelves are littered with Polish and Turkish products, their quality often leaves much to be desired. Now the merchants have a new topic - open stores of Belarusian food products. Despite the fact that they are slightly more expensive than Polish and Ukrainian, the quality differs significantly

I’m an agrarian. Unfortunately, we can’t compete with them just because they have huge subsidies to agricultural producers. But even in such circumstances, Ukraine is among the leaders in exporting agricultural products. By 2020, they kind of cancel subsidies system. Believe us, we will flood them with our products. Ukraine really is the only right choice to focus on the agricultural sector. By the way, Yanukovych understood even a moron slowly. His sons' main business is agricultural products.

[Skavron]

morpex I was already rushing to respond to opponents, but I saw your comment. Actually, there is nothing to add ... only "+"

[Don]

Quote: Skavron

but nevertheless she possesses

It then possesses, but we depend on foreign markets, and the CIS countries are our main partners.

[Don]

Quote: Kars

on an independent policy of the sovereign state of Ukraine, the main vector of which should be aimed at the welfare and stability of the country.

Let's face it, and not talk in generalizing phrases about how everything should be fine and all that. There was a time when Ukraine needed a multi-vector policy, but now it is already necessary to decide. We never pursued an independent policy and sovereign, in moderation, we so far allow us super powers. Between the two giants of the Russian Federation (CU) and the EU need to choose. They are our neighbors.

[Nechai]

Quote: ded_73

And who of the politicians of any country generally thinks of ordinary people?

Yes, they all only think about them - as if more serfs, slaves to fuck!
The desire of the majority of Ukrainians to live like in Europe is understandable. Only now Europe does not want to see Ukraine in its current form (as a single state) in its ranks. I'm afraid history will repeat itself. When trouble is not childish, then "Khmenitsky-2" will be ...

[WW3]

But infinitely the same "to some extent" can not continue. In the end, Yanukovych will have to choose the only chair for a comfortable enough sitting on it, because no one of the political leaders has managed to sit on two chairs without consequences.

If you recall the story of all 4 Ukrainian. the president was only engaged in sitting in such a position ..... especially Kuchma ... It’s another matter that now partners from the EU and the CU require clear signals from Ukraine and have already made tough statements that they will not be able to integrate into both structures at the same time and will not allow Ukraine The matter is complicated by the fact that Ukrainian. the executive branch is actually the business structure of the oligarchs starting with the Yanukovych family ... This music will be eternal ... until everyone sends Ukraine to hell, then the decision of Ukrainian will be urgently taken in agony. power ...

[Warrawar]

By the way, what a wonderful Russophobic website (thanks to max) - it just sprinkles with brotherly love:
- http://www.pravda.com.ua/
Especially the comments burn "Matskalnya, do not forget, de your" homeland. " life is treasure, but you can't get out of bast shoes on the season of the year. Take care of the more beautiful "wolіkay Russian ruki Volgi", as the Tatars allow you. "

[Skavron]

Warrawar on these sites 200 comments stand a little more than $ 2 ...
You explain how they get there and why?

[MG42]

Warrawar,
for Russian, you understand Ukrainian very well. mov? even too good >>>>
why do you visit such sites and advertise it here?

[Warrawar]

[quote = MG42] for Russian you understand Ukrainian very well. mov? [/ quote]
And what to understand? This is a hybrid of a warped Russian and a sleigh.

[quote = MG42] why do you visit such sites and advertise it here? [/ quote
Why not advertise? Let the Russian people know that they are spinning behind them.]

[MG42]

Quote: Warrawar

It is necessary, by any means to impede, relations between the CU and Ukraine

Happiness for Bandera to advertise anti-Russian r @ vno ?, of course, such as you are only busy erecting barriers and obstructing integration processes.

[tommy1984]

Well, what can be the European integration of Ukraine now? The east and south of the EU itself became impoverished. In 5 or 10 years, Turkey will insist on joining, the time will come and resolve their issue.
In general, the picture is drawn as follows:
Mired in financial crises and debts, Europe is trying its best to close the doors and hinder the entry of Turkey, which is rapidly climbing there. And across the Turks, Ukraine is also climbing through this door. And she screams at the same time that they want her in Europe ...

[I think so]

While Jews in Russia will be the masters, Ukraine will stay away from all this ... even despite the seemingly benefits ...

[biglow]

Yanukovych as a girl is looking for someone to sell more expensively, but the smartest one will come and take everything for nothing

[Luna]

11goor If the Russian media agreed with the Ukrainian media and a little cleared the brains of naive Ukrainians!

If Akhmetov does not need a vehicle, then why would his media clean out their brains?

[xan]

Akhmetov needs cheap gas, his production is unprofitable with expensive gas

[wax]

Roar and Stogne Dnipro wide,
Angry Winter Curl
Dodolu willow anger temple,
Mountains praise pidima.

I month at that time,
From Khmari de de having looked,
At night choven in the blue sea
Now virinav, then drowning.

More than a third of them weren’t drunk,
Nothing is homogeneous anywhere,
Sichi echoed in the guy
That is clear once and again creaking.

[Skavron]

Quote: SergeySK

WHAT IS UKRAINE'S INDEPENDENT POLICY

It's simple.
This is such a policy, which allows intensive development of all spheres of life, OUT of dependence on political, economic, social or military upheavals in neighboring countries and partner countries. Non-alignedness protects against the fulfillment of various kinds of undesirable obligations that do not bring benefits to the country. Antiprimer? Germany pulling the whole EU ...

[Vladimir 70]

It's simple.
This is such a policy, which allows intensive development of all spheres of life, OUT of dependence on political, economic, social or military upheavals in neighboring countries and partner countries. Non-alignedness protects against the fulfillment of various kinds of undesirable obligations that do not bring benefits to the country. Antiprimer? Germany pulling the whole EU ...

I just have a small question: how is Ukraine (this applies to any state in modern conditions) among the "world wolves" going to conduct an independent policy, begging for loans around the world? It has always been - who feeds the girl, he dances her.

[Skavron]

The answer is even simpler.
Change of leadership, complete change of the entire vertical of power.
I’m not in control of that opposition now ...
Once upon a time a wise and terrible man said: "Cadres are everything." The shots of this man worked truly miracles. Sometimes scary, but more often great.
So with Ukraine ... to become a self-sufficient state, it lacks these very cadres ... but otherwise, everything is there for a comfortable existence in Ukraine.

[xan]

Skavron,
exactly logical. just to become a self-sufficient state, you need to sacrifice the lives of one or two generations of these cadres, like Japan and South Korea, you do not have gas and oil. And the cadres want to live now, and will live in Russia or the EU. So the person who said "cadres decides everything" will not help you.

[Skavron]

Khan, not everything is so bad.

[xan]

Quote: Skavron

Khan, not everything is so bad.

What is optimism based on?

[Vladimir 70]

I agree that Ukraine has everything for a comfortable existence. But who will give her?

The answer is even simpler.
Change of leadership, complete change of the entire power vertical

It does not matter who will be in the leadership of Ukraine in modern conditions. Without loans, $ Ukraine (this applies to all states) cannot exist. This is how the world financial system works.

[Skavron]

Quote: Vladimir 70

Without loans, $ Ukraine (this applies to all states) cannot exist. This is how the global financial system works.

Firstly, it’s not about loans but about the TS, and about Ukraine’s ability to exist without joining international economic organizations.
Secondly, it will work out.

[Vladimir 70]

Firstly, it’s not about loans but about the TS, and about Ukraine’s ability to exist without joining international economic organizations.

That's it, that the whole question is about loans. Since Ukraine (like any other state in the world) cannot exist without credit or earned $. Currency is needed at least to cover consumer needs. We cannot establish consumer goods with us. Accordingly, we will have to either take loans or sell something on foreign markets. To the West, we can only sell wheat, rapeseed, seeds, and metal. The West will not buy products of aircraft construction and shipbuilding. In trade with the vehicle, Ukraine has more opportunities ..

[Vako]

I agree with the author. The more he pulls the rubber, the less possibilities he has left ...

[Goldmitro]

Good article. The author feels "in the subject" and he is not indifferent to the fate of Ukraine. And the situation there is getting worse and worse, and she herself, it seems, cannot get out without help. The "moment of truth" is approaching. Sitting on two chairs with famous promises and "yours and ours" no longer rolls. It is necessary to determine, but with whom to go? It is extremely important for the EU not to let Ukraine get closer to Russia, but it can hardly help with anything concrete: it has its own problems "above the roof". Most likely, it will confine itself to general considerations about the benefits of European integration and, most importantly, promise not to insist on any democratic changes in the country, so that the Ukrainian elite can be calm about what they have acquired by back-breaking labor. But this will not improve the economic situation, so it will be a "kicked-off". Joining the CU with Russia is really capable of causing an economic rise in Ukraine, but it will also require retaliatory steps from Ukraine, which the Ukrainian elite clearly does not want, fearing for their possessions and their acquired. She (the elite) would like to receive everything from the TS, but give ... at a minimum, "do not let go" to herself! A historic moment for both Ukraine and Russia! Let us move on together for the good of our countries and in fulfillment of the aspirations of our peoples, or let us resolutely disperse with unpredictable consequences. It is not for nothing that Vladimir Putin himself supervises this issue. It is a pity that the Ukrainian Minin and Pozharsky have not yet appeared, which would have forced the Ukrainian elite to agree to a true alliance with Russia and Belarus! Russia is READY for this union!



--

[cucun]

UXXX. I have been living for 45 years, of which 30 years I stumble upon this crap, "Who is cooler" ... It is no longer possible, even with the USSR with friends there were eternal disputes over who feeds whom ...
Gentlemen, if we take this paradigm of a consumer society, then this conversation is "in favor of the poor" i.e. will never end. If you look at the world more broadly and less mercantile, the picture will be completely different. Do you not really understand that there is propaganda around MOROK from all sides. Yes, and wars will soon be for fresh water ... But this is tomorrow, but today we will still find out who is longer for Russians or Ukrainians.

[asf32wesdg]

It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://sho.rtlink.de/FS62Am database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
Information can be deleted from the site.
I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

[Marek Rozny]

The article is very interesting. When I rarely delve into the nuances of Ukrainian politics, I’m always happy to read such understandable and concentrated articles. To the author - plus and thanks from me.
In general, it is necessary to do with Ukraine like the Kazakhs do with Kyrgyzstan - send their consultants there for some time, who will explain "how much" and help together figure out how best to do everything for the future entry into the CU.

[Luna]

xan Akhmetov needs cheap gas, his production is unprofitable with expensive gas,
...... why did he buy a house in London?