Drones versus helicopters: the end of the era of attack helicopters

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Drones versus helicopters: the end of the era of attack helicopters
Ka-52


Despite the fact that during the Northern War attack helicopters, primarily the Ka-52, performed very well, the time for their mass combat use seems to be running out. So far, they are winning due to the “long arm” in the form of long-range ATGMs, the range and flight speed of which exceed the range and speed of conventional “infantry” ATGMs. Not even every MANPADS will reach a helicopter in response, especially considering the tactics of helicopters operating on short-term “jumps” from a low hover mode: “looked out, shot, hid.”



At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces generally have relatively few modern medium-range air defense systems, and they cannot fully cover the entire front line with them. Therefore, a situation has arisen in which the Ka-52 can operate relatively calmly. We can say that they work as intended at the time of their creation. That is why they show high efficiency.

However, it is very likely that soon the main enemy of helicopters will be “flying mines” in the form of specialized UAVs. Similar, but stationary mines designed to block airfields or flight routes have existed for a long time. Installed in the right place, they wait for a helicopter to fly nearby and “listen” to the characteristic sound of the engines and the thermal field. Having determined that the target is nearby, they fire a charge in its direction - a “shock core”.

But the range of such mines is short, about 100 meters. They cannot cover an entire front or even a separate section of it. Despite the fact that both we and the NATO armies have them, the author has not come across a single mention of their use during the Northern Military District.

Now let’s imagine a small UAV that can patrol a given area for at least 4 hours. And also listen to the noise of the helicopter engine, and when you hear it, fly towards it. Moreover, unlike a UAV attack on a ground target (when it crashes in any case), if the helicopter misses, the attack can be repeated.

By the way, there are references that the well-known “Lancet” had a modification of the “UAV fighter”. In fact, a ready-made tool for fighting helicopters! Its speed capabilities - up to 300 km/h - are quite suitable for attacking it. Perhaps they are also suitable for diving attacks on low-flying attack aircraft on a collision course.

Unlike the already familiar Lancet variants, the anti-helicopter drone must be autonomous: patrol in a given area, find a target and attack it without the participation of an operator. However, the ability to communicate with the operator will also not hurt, for example, for preliminary guidance using radar data or for redirecting to an important ground target.

By the way, judging by open sources, something similar - autonomous mode, artificial intelligence - is planned for the new Lancets.

Half a dozen similar drones enough to cover a fairly wide area of ​​the front around the clock. Of course, except for days with bad, windy weather. But on bad weather days, helicopters cannot always operate.

So, the main requirements for such a device are: autonomy, sufficient speed, including in a dive, flight altitude of 1–2 km, the ability to independently analyze noise and direction, and ideally also an infrared sensor. Of course, the microphone’s operation will be interfered with by the noise of the oncoming air flow and the sound of its own engine (a land-based anti-helicopter mine has fewer such problems), but these difficulties are surmountable: the characteristic frequencies of the helicopter engine and especially the main rotor can be distinguished. A video camera with the ability to analyze images, including the target’s thermal signature, would be another useful load for such a device.

Does all this look fantastic? Not at all. Changes in military affairs are happening very quickly now.

In the spring of 2022, Ukrainian grenade launchers and ATGM operators were still freely positioned on the roofs of high-rise buildings. And most often unnoticed.

During the assault on Mariupol, ours already used quadcopters and detected the enemy on the roofs. That is, they already saw where the ambushes were located, but they could not hit them on the move.

Closer to the fall of 2022, small bombs were already being attached to quadcopters with might and main, and the chances of such ambushes became much less.

And now FPV drones are already in full use - in fact, an advanced ATGM with a “long arm”.

And this is just one example of the development of tactical-grade drones.

The transition of drones to autonomous operation and independent selection of targets is no longer a fantasy. This is the prospect of the coming years, if not months.

Recently, the effectiveness of using helicopters as “drone fighters” was discussed, and even a short but heated debate arose about whether the existing on-board weapons are suitable for this, or whether it is worth installing multi-barreled machine guns, etc. I think that in light of the identified problem, this is a dubious activity . In several known cases of a helicopter attacking a drone, the drone flew along a given route and passively filmed what was happening with its built-in camera. Now let’s imagine that a drone can turn towards a helicopter and try to attack it itself... and the hunter turns into the victim!


A reconnaissance UAV flying near Cape Tarkhankut filmed an attempt by a Mi-28N helicopter to shoot it down with fire from an automatic 30-mm cannon.

The danger of this, the imminent use of “flying anti-helicopter torpedoes” is worth thinking about. How to protect helicopters from them, especially in the upper hemisphere? How to adapt the tactics of their use? Is it even worth planning the mass use of manned attack helicopters on the front line in the future?

This will probably only be possible under conditions of careful cover by electronic warfare and air defense systems, and with an active protection complex on board. Or will the next generation of attack helicopters be unmanned?

And the last.

This article has been thought about and written over the past few weeks. And now we read that the other day a Ukrainian FPV drone tried to attack the Ka-52! So the turn began even earlier than the author thought, although at a primitive level, in manual control mode. But it seems that time has already passed...
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  1. -2
    9 September 2023 05: 07
    As sad as it is to write, the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending. Or it's already over. And not because some drones are interfering with them, but because of the developed air defense system, which, it seems to me, is confidently defeating aviation today. All tasks that can be solved by attack helicopters and attack aircraft are successfully solved by UAVs and are solved cheaply and with almost no loss of manpower. Hack and predictor Aviator: attack aviation itself will outlive its useful life, without any participation of drones in its fate...
    1. +6
      9 September 2023 05: 34
      Or it's already over. And not because some kind of drones are interfering with them, but because of the developed air defense system, which, it seems to me, is confidently defeating aviation today. All tasks that can be solved by attack helicopters and attack aircraft are successfully solved by UAVs and are solved cheaply and with almost no loss of manpower. Conclusion: strike aviation itself will outlive its useful life, without any participation of drones in its fate...

      UAV low load, short range of use of weapons launched from UAVs, inability to use large high-precision supplies with sufficient warheads, the need for stable communication with the UAV (otherwise the UAV turns into an ordinary cruise missile)

      Well, during the existence of missile weapons, controlled aircraft did not disappear as a class, so they will continue to live.
      1. +1
        9 September 2023 06: 06
        https://dzen.ru/video/watch/64d3be1e9ab3e95cd2b0923c
        Drones can already be easily loaded with weights of tens of kg.
      2. +6
        9 September 2023 06: 25
        Quote: spektr9
        BLUA low load

        Creation heavy UAVs are just a matter of time. Admit it, when did you first hear about drones and what do you hear about them now?

        Quote: spektr9
        guided aviation has not disappeared as a class, so it will continue to live.

        Despite the active offensive of UAVs, transport, long-range and fighter aircraft, a very long lifespan is still measured ... wink
        1. PPD
          +4
          9 September 2023 08: 24
          The creation of heavy UAVs is just a matter of time. Admit it

          Already!
          And quite a long time ago.
          Our fighters described one of them as having drowned himself out of grief, the other is trying not to get too close.
          Because the price is...
          No one has canceled physics and economics.
          Heavy devices are quite expensive.
          And the small one flies accordingly, and you still need to catch up with the helicopter.
          There is no mention of an airplane.
          1. +1
            9 September 2023 18: 07
            You are right: no one has canceled physics and economics. Therefore, cardboard drones will hit aircraft at bases from Pskov to the Caucasus, from fighters to strategists. Why should they bother with air combat?
          2. 0
            26 September 2023 14: 25
            That’s how they made money there, that’s why the price is so high.
        2. +2
          9 September 2023 09: 41
          The creation of heavy UAVs is just a matter of time.

          There is a second option.
          Swarm of reconnaissance UAVs + high-precision adjustable MLRS (range 300 km).
      3. +9
        9 September 2023 09: 26
        Quote: spektr9
        UAV low load, short range, use of weapons launched from UAVs, impossibility of using large high-precision supplies with sufficient warheads, need for stable communication with UAVs

        This is very funny. When UAVs capable of flying thousands of kilometers and carrying tons of payload are released in the thousands. We are simply 20-30 years behind the leading armies of the world in this matter.

        1. 0
          10 September 2023 11: 32
          The UAV is an excellent, slow target for a UAV.
    2. +7
      9 September 2023 07: 19
      Quote: Luminman
      As sad as it is to write, the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending

      If helicopters and attack aircraft remain at the same level, then yes... But they can, yes they can, MUST change. How long can we live on the Soviet legacy, well, another five years, and then we need to present something new, in the “spirit of the times.”
      Quote: Luminman
      All tasks that can be solved by attack helicopters and attack aircraft are successfully solved by UAVs and are solved cheaply and with almost no loss of manpower.

      No, UAVs are not yet capable of solving all the tasks performed by manned aircraft. Because in each such device sits a person capable of quickly making decisions, here and now and at high speeds, and with a huge bomb load, which he is capable of delivering to the enemy’s head
      1. -4
        9 September 2023 07: 38
        Quote: svp67
        ...in each such apparatus sits a person capable of quickly making decisions...
        ...delivered to the enemy's head

        One can make decisions and deliver bombs to the enemy's head until the moment when delivery man will not enter the air defense zone. Suffice it to recall Rutsky, who was shot down in Afghanistan in his Su-24. And it was shot down by some illiterate Pashtun...
        1. +2
          9 September 2023 13: 58
          Afghanistan on his Su-24. And it was shot down by some illiterate Pashtun...


          Hey, young man, Rutskoi actually flew the Su-25. This is about what kind of expert you are in the topic. And the task there was to provoke air defense systems.
        2. +1
          10 September 2023 13: 28
          Quote: Luminman
          You can make decisions and deliver bombs to the enemy's head until the moment when the delivery person enters the air defense zone.

          Tell the Syrians.

          Quote: Luminman
          Suffice it to recall Rutskoi, who was shot down in Afghanistan on his Su-24.

          Half a century ago. You will be surprised, but the world has changed a lot during this time.
    3. +3
      9 September 2023 09: 04
      Quote: Luminman
      It is regrettable to write, but the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending. Or it's already over.

      The second is true. It's over. Atavisms still remain and will participate in wars for ten years, but they are outdated. The role of command centers will remain for manned airplanes and helicopters, but strike and reconnaissance missions will be assigned to various drones. But this is good, fewer people will die.
    4. 0
      9 September 2023 09: 11
      Quote: Luminman
      It is regrettable to write, but the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending. Or it's already over. And not because some drones interfere with them, but in a developed air defense system, which, it seems to me, is confidently defeating aviation today.

      Lasers take the stage. The power supply of a UAV is minuscule compared to a helicopter, while on the ground you can even get power from a nuclear reactor. I wouldn't bury attack helicopters
    5. -1
      9 September 2023 17: 22
      Quote: Luminman
      As sad as it is to write, the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending. Or it's already over. And not because some drones are interfering with them, but because of the developed air defense system, which, it seems to me, is confidently defeating aviation today. All tasks that can be solved by attack helicopters and attack aircraft are successfully solved by UAVs and are solved cheaply and with almost no loss of manpower. Hack and predictor Aviator: attack aviation itself will outlive its useful life, without any participation of drones in its fate...

      The fact is that current strike aircraft are designed to attack the enemy with the help of NARs and a 30mm cannon. Accordingly, their armor is serious, designed to withstand the fire of large-caliber machine guns. This concept is truly atevism. Strike aircraft of the future are highly mobile carriers of guided weapons. Accordingly, they don’t really need armor, and the cannon can be abolished. IMHO of course.
    6. 0
      9 September 2023 19: 45
      The era of crewed helicopters will only end when unmanned helicopters appear! Samples have already been shown in Moscow during Putin’s visit to the Technopark.
      Modern drones cannot compete with attack helicopters, this is an absolute fact. The material is not only controversial, the material is not supported by anything other than the opinion of the author.
      The danger of drones leads to the fact that helicopters will be equipped with systems to combat these drones, nothing more.
    7. +2
      9 September 2023 22: 56
      Quote: Luminman
      It is regrettable to write, but the era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is ending. Or it's already over.

      It doesn't end. It’s just that attack helicopters and front-line aviation themselves will become unmanned. Why, for example, do two people sit in a helicopter if they can sit on a sofa in a bunker? Take them out of the helicopter and you don't need armor. No armor needed - no need for two engines. In general, the entire helicopter can be made ten times lighter. It will have ammunition - one or two ATGMs. But such helicopters can be produced in the hundreds, and based several tens of kilometers from the LBS, where even our thick-headed General Staff no longer bases manned helicopters.

      Throw glide bombs? Do you really need expensive Su-34s for this? Install an unmanned control kit on the Su-25 and let it carry these bombs from the airfield to the LBS and throw them according to external target designation. Again: an armored cabin is not needed - the bomb load increases. In the future, it is possible to make a lightweight version: a single-engine unmanned attack aircraft-bomb carrier, extremely cheap, with a minimum of avionics.
      1. +3
        10 September 2023 13: 27


        Here is a ready-made helicopter, it can fire a machine gun, jam, and probably instead of 8 S-5s you can attach a couple of whirlwind cornets. 200 kilos of payload seem to allow.
    8. 0
      10 September 2023 11: 36
      It’s sad to say, but you personally probably can’t come up with anything. But there is no need to speak for everyone.
    9. +1
      10 September 2023 13: 21
      Quote: Luminman
      Air defense, which, it seems to me, is confidently defeating aviation today

      Strongly disagree. You should not make an assessment solely based on what is happening in Ukraine, this is fundamentally wrong. Since neither side of the conflict simply has a full-fledged and modern set of means for destroying air defense, since both armies were built on the Soviet legacy, in which breaking through layered air defense from the air was never the main task, so the means for this are limited.

      Quote: Luminman
      All tasks that can be solved by attack helicopters and attack aircraft are successfully solved by UAVs and are solved cheaply and with almost no loss of manpower.

      I agree with this, attack helicopters around the world are slowly being repurposed as drone carriers and drivers, and are receiving increasingly long-range weapon systems, such as the Spike NLOS ATGM, which flies 50 km when launched from a helicopter. So launching Lancets from the Ka-52/Mi-28, under the control of a weapons operator, is the most promising direction.
    10. +1
      10 September 2023 17: 52
      In a DIRECT confrontation, the drone has little chance for a number of reasons
      But several swarms can do this task. Considering the difference between the cost of a turntable and a drone, you can sacrifice several UAVs.
      Both airplanes and helicopters are especially vulnerable during takeoff and landing.
  2. +7
    9 September 2023 05: 58
    Now let's imagine that the drone can turn to the helicopter, try to attack it itself... and the hunter turns into a victim!

    I imagine something else ... when craftsmen learn to install Stingers or our Willow MANPADS on drones ... then fun times will begin for helicopters and indeed any air target.
    Such drones can also be used to attack airfields with aircraft standing on them.
    Wait a little while before that happens. request
    1. +4
      9 September 2023 06: 28
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I imagine something else ... when craftsmen learn to use drones

      Somewhere recently I read that small drones can be installed in the air as minefields against any aircraft ...
    2. +2
      12 September 2023 10: 47
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Wait a little while before that happens.

      So already! On the A-50 standing at the airfield, they actually installed a quadric on its antenna.. What if it had a thermite bomb? Yes, in Pskov, the IL-76 was taken from the UAV. Although this game can be played by two people, the enemy has plenty of air bases all over the world, and what will happen when the billionth B-2 burns up from a cheap drone? Or “Awax”, and there are plenty of other “fat” targets .. And the most important thing here is that you won’t find the ends because even the fragments of the UAV will not tell who did it.. Pandora’s box is open and apparently soon not only gas / oil refineries in the USA will regularly burn will start..
  3. +1
    9 September 2023 07: 18
    Quote: Luminman
    small drones can be installed in the air as mine barriers against any aircraft...

    Not a bad idea either. hi
  4. 0
    9 September 2023 09: 27
    An attack helicopter is an opportunity to QUICKLY deliver a LARGE amount of attack weapons to ANY place. This is a reaction to the rapidly changing situation at the front. NO drone can do this. Well, unless it's the same unmanned helicopter of the same size.
    The same eggs, side view.
    1. +4
      9 September 2023 09: 43
      NO drone. Well, unless it's the same unmanned helicopter of the same size.

      Only in the case of a UAV, you do not have personnel inside the UAV.
    2. +3
      9 September 2023 23: 16
      Quote: acetophenon
      An attack helicopter is an opportunity to QUICKLY deliver a LARGE amount of attack weapons to ANY place. This is a reaction to the rapidly changing situation at the front. NO drone can do this. Well, unless it's the same unmanned helicopter of the same size.

      For example: BAS-750. The declared load capacity is 200 kg. Practical range - 550 km. It is quite enough to deliver two or three Vikhr ATGMs to any place (within reasonable limits) on the front and launch them at targets in the same way as the Ka-52 does. Without the slightest risk for operators. I don’t know how much it costs, but in mass production, I think it will be tens of times cheaper than the Ka-52.
  5. +3
    9 September 2023 10: 02
    The idea of ​​creating and using a UAV as a “UAV interceptor” or “helicopter interceptor” has been in the air for a long time! But these should be “specialized” drones, albeit with the ability to strike ground targets or conduct reconnaissance... I recently wrote about this in my commentary to one of the “recent” articles, so now I will not expand further...
  6. +2
    9 September 2023 10: 27
    Last year, American Ryan Landemann set a speed record for the Guinness Book of Records with an unusual-looking FPV drone of 360 km/h in horizontal flight over 100 meters.

    Yes, this is a light toy: 490 grams. But I believe that heavier FPV drones can be built using this scheme, and this will happen no later than the spring of next year, and even if one out of 100 drones achieves success, this will greatly limit the use of helicopters. Because one Ka-52 costs more than a billion rubles, and an advanced FPV drone, even a thousand dollars, is more than 10 thousand times cheaper.
    There is still a use for airplanes - to launch gliding bombs from several tens of kilometers from the front line, but a helicopter will not have such an opportunity.

    They write here about lasers as a means of air defense, yes, this is the future, but lasers will no longer have time for this war.
    1. 0
      10 September 2023 13: 30
      A helicopter jammer will be better than a laser; the laser will not shine everywhere. Although it may spoil the optics of the drone
  7. +2
    9 September 2023 11: 59
    FPV drones are generally very good. a dangerous technology, more dangerous than which can only be a single-chip intelligent filling that gives such devices autonomy. In principle, all these unmanned technologies promise big problems for everything that flies up to supersonic and below certain altitudes.
    Because even where the glider cannot reach, the special missile it carries can reach..
  8. -7
    9 September 2023 14: 26
    The author of the article is either a young ignoramus, or the article was ordered to please the manufacturers of the “wunderwaffe” called attack UAVs.
    Although it’s more likely the first option, judging by the nonsense he talks about anti-helicopter mines, the only purpose of which is to counteract the stupid Western tactics of launching ATGMs from hover mode (helicopter ambushes) and which our current idiots from the Defense Ministry have adopted.
    Yes, urapats and uriots (my abbreviation is jingoist-patriot, with the difference that the first are bastards who make their own profit from this, the second are idiots who happily accept the noodles) you can at least make a mistake, but you can’t erase the words from the song.
    Alas, after the collapse of the USSR, the selection of command personnel in the leadership of the armed forces did not go for the better. Competent and experienced, and therefore decent and understanding of officer honor, commanders were forced into the reserves, and their place was taken by sycophants and parquet careerists, whose ceiling was organizing window dressing, holding parades, but not commanding troops in real combat operations.
    And in this case, the way the combat operations of helicopter units are organized simply cannot but affect the increase in losses. All Soviet developments have been forgotten, and what is being introduced is rather direct sabotage.
    Essentially, a helicopter is, first of all, a highly mobile platform carrying guided weapons with the task of hitting enemy equipment and personnel at a minimum distance from the front line of friendly troops. No one can perform this task better and it is criminal to divert combat helicopters to perform other tasks.
    At the same time, the helicopters are located at a distance and altitude that excludes them from being damaged by both anti-aircraft missiles and MZA. And most importantly, the combat load of helicopters ensures guaranteed destruction of targets when carrying out their combat missions.
    As for UAVs, it’s not for nothing that they are slow-moving and have a small combat load. It’s just that low speed and small size are the only chance to ensure them at least some survivability.
    But the low speed is an prohibitively large reaction, and the low load does not allow blows of sufficient power.
    At the same time, attempts to increase the speed and combat load lead to the fact that it is impossible to pilot these pepelats in WWII. Remote piloting and cockpit piloting are very different. At the same time, the cost of such devices is already approaching, or even more than, manned vehicles.
    So why are we so rushing around with attack UAVs? It’s simple, here is the maximum difference between costs and profits. And under capitalism, profit is the most important thing; the troops and their needs are not cared for.
    That’s why there is such aggressive and intrusive advertising of these same UAVs with a bunch of staged videos.
    After all, correctly formed “public opinion” is the key to a successful business.
    1. 0
      10 September 2023 15: 55
      Don’t forget about the EMP beam generators, which were designed in 152 caliber and created a local area of ​​destruction of the weapon’s equipment within a radius of up to (30-50) m. The introduction of 57-caliber EMP ammunition for Derivation with a time-controlled fuse will put an end to the dominance of drones over the battlefield.
    2. 0
      19 September 2023 22: 19
      This is why we are still trailing behind technological progress. That is why. And what they show on the box with cries of “which has no analogues in the world” has nothing so cheerful behind it, because the technically progressive world has already abandoned it.
  9. 0
    9 September 2023 15: 09
    A few technical questions for the author. 1. How will a potential drone with a flying mine select the noise of the helicopter’s rotors from its own? 2. Where can I get such a battery to allow the drone to patrol the area of ​​responsibility for 4 hours? If you abandon electric motors, you will have to install an internal combustion engine, and this is a new level of noise. 3. How to aim the ammunition cone so accurately as to hit a helicopter flying several tens of meters away with the impact core? Technically, all of the above is quite feasible (except for selecting targets based on noise), but the result will be a complex and expensive machine with dubious effectiveness against helicopters. The impact core does not at all guarantee the destruction of a combat vehicle in the air. Regarding the attempt to attack an FPV helicopter with a drone. Everyone forgets about the air flow from the main rotors, which during an attack will simply blow the car to the ground. Dementia and courage performed by Ukrainian specialists.
    1. +1
      10 September 2023 14: 26
      Regarding loitering, noise selection, air minefields, impact cannonballs and other heresies - these are the fantasies of a schoolboy who does not have basic logical thinking. How to organize this in the form of real work, and they don’t have answers on a large scale.
      The only working option is shown in the video of the Ka-52 attack. The drone must be cheap and widespread. Range up to several tens of kilometers to cover the range of MANPADS and ensure control of the territory over a large area. The ideal option is Lancet and its analogues. The channel is optical, ideally multispectral. Manual control and automatic guidance at the final stage. Attack exclusively from a dive to reduce the likelihood of crews detecting and disrupting the attack. No impact cores or attacks to the body, only from above and only the screw. A small explosive charge a la an ordinary hand grenade (in terms of mass) when it hits the blades, it demolishes the propeller and hello, the helicopter itself will help by attracting the drone with a stream of air if you attack from the front from above.
      Organization of work - duty in flight zones. Upon receiving information about the appearance of a helicopter in the area of ​​​​responsibility, the drones are launched and attacked; in case of failure, the drones can be returned if a landing method is provided.
    2. 0
      14 September 2023 07: 13
      Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
      1. How will a potential drone with a flying mine select the noise of the helicopter’s rotors from its own?


      No way - disposable penny microphones can be installed/scattered from a drone on the ground and output an audio signal from them to the radio, and the drone will immediately listen to a network of such speakers. This device is no more complicated and more expensive than a very simple radio transmitter.
      In addition, you can look for interference on the air from the operation of engines and equipment.
    3. 0
      14 September 2023 20: 18
      The air flow from the NV does not go in all directions, but mainly down and back. For the upper hemisphere, which is the most dangerous from the point of view of a drone hit, this does not work at all. Even lateral projections are dangerous. Bird resistance is a standard requirement for helicopter windshields. If the air flow from the NV does not prevent the bird from getting into the cockpit glazing, then it will certainly not interfere with the drone. I wrote about the impact core in relation to ground-based anti-helicopter mines. For a drone, this is not at all necessary; a HE device that hits the propeller blades, engines, transmission, etc. would be even more effective.
    4. +1
      19 September 2023 22: 14
      some technical answers
      1 what is the problem with subtracting your known noise signature? I’m not talking about simple, but difficult to understand solutions with differential inputs, where you can apply your own spectrum to the inverting input and subtract it from the rest. All this is in real time. Since you have to think a lot here, it’s easier to train a neuron. Moreover, it can be trained not only on the noise of the propellers, you can add the rotation of the propeller, the thermal profile of the engines. Damn, she doesn’t care through what channels you coach her.
      2 Just now I was looking at a review of a new phone from a Chinese manufacturer. He has a bunch of high-definition cameras there, including a thermal imager, a strobe light and a projector. All this is powered by a battery with a capacity of 10 Ah. Or, as marketers fashionably write, 10000 mAh. By the way, the computing power of the processor with built-in graphics cores on this phone is quite enough for the needs of the neuron. It should even remain on a secure encrypted connection with high-definition video. Now just calculate in your mind what will happen if you take five batteries from this phone (50 Ah). And this is a consumer product.
      I bought one phone and five batteries for it, threw out everything unnecessary (strobe light, flashlight, projector, screen, speaker), train the neuron. Moreover, the phone by default has a satellite positioning system and a gyroscope. What are the difficulties? Except for those in my head.
  10. +2
    9 September 2023 15: 19
    The cost of the Ka-52 is about 900 million rubles versus a drone costing 0.5-1.0-2.0 million rubles. Total, minus crew members, years of training and funds invested in them. Minus the combat vehicle. Minus the funds invested in repairs. Minus funds for fuel and ammunition. Even if a drone costs 10 million, it is very cheap if it can destroy this kind of equipment.
    The evolution is obvious. request
    1. +1
      9 September 2023 17: 00
      It looks like a new fetish has appeared on the site in the form of a drone! Only this “icon” can be disabled remotely by suppressing its electronics, even if the crew lands a helicopter in the turntable. And the drone will just fall. All the strengths of the drone, paradoxically, are also the weakness of the drone; without human control, the drone is simply a very good inexpensive consumable. Any elementary filling can be disabled remotely, or the drone can be redirected to another target, primarily to those who launched it. This is simply impossible with a helicopter; it is the crew that will not allow anything like this. So it’s too early to bury the helicopter, very, very early!
      1. 0
        19 September 2023 21: 50
        This is why drones fly unhindered to the capital and crash into lonely high-rise buildings there?
        And in some provinces they really even achieve their goals.
    2. 0
      9 September 2023 17: 00
      Rave. Such a drone will cost much more. And this is not evolution, but pulling a hippopotamus onto a globe.
    3. -4
      9 September 2023 22: 10
      The cost of the Ka-52 is about 900 million rubles versus a drone costing 0.5-1.0-2.0 million rubles. Total, minus crew members, years of training and funds invested in them. Minus the combat vehicle. Minus the funds invested in repairs. Minus funds for fuel and ammunition. Even if a drone costs 10 million, it is very cheap if it can destroy this kind of equipment.
      The evolution is obvious.


      Ka-52, 2000-2500 kg combat load. How many drones will it take to replace them? Not to mention the list of ammunition.
  11. +2
    9 September 2023 18: 38
    So much imagination in the comments! But in reality everything will be much simpler: cardboard, inertial, mine and electric motor with battery. And a drone that attacks any aircraft / helicopter at the airfield. All!
  12. +1
    9 September 2023 23: 18
    What should be the power of the drone's rotors... to overcome the air being pushed in different directions by the helicopter...
    With a rocket it’s clear... with a drone, not so much... because a drone weighing 5-25 kg cannot overcome the air around a helicopter just like that... well, the speed of the helicopter too
    1. 0
      14 September 2023 20: 05
      The flow from the NV does not go in different directions, but mainly down and back. For the upper hemisphere, which is the most dangerous from the point of view of a drone hit, this does not work at all. Even lateral projections are dangerous. Bird resistance is a standard requirement for helicopter windshields. If the air flow from the NV does not prevent the bird from getting into the cockpit glazing, then it will certainly not interfere with the drone.
    2. +1
      19 September 2023 21: 46
      The helicopter has a wonderful NV that can be seen and heard. Its signature is permanent and very convenient for training AI. So even from above, the NV is not protected by anything. I know, I know, now you’re going to get stuffed for saying that. But when roof breakers for tanks showed their effectiveness, ours suddenly began to acquire barbecues on the tower.
      There is no need to overcome any air flow; it will draw in from above.
  13. 0
    10 September 2023 11: 19
    It is unlikely that similar UAVs will appear in the near future. In order to confidently destroy a helicopter, the speed of the UAV must at least exceed the speed of the helicopter by 100 km/h. Such characteristics are too expensive and fuel-intensive for a Kamikaze Drone. Some kind of homing ammunition can be allowed, but the mass use of UAVs is hardly possible in the foreseeable future.
  14. 0
    10 September 2023 11: 27
    A helicopter is about maneuverability, speed and payload. It could be unmanned, maybe with a robot co-pilot. But its load-carrying capacity is its essence. All these guns fit into the concept of the KAZ helicopter and this has already been discussed somewhere. The drone turns to a helicopter - it will fly closer, easier to hit. You will still have to protect the helicopters.
  15. +1
    10 September 2023 13: 21
    Shaw? Again the "funeral" of rotorcraft?
    1. 0
      11 September 2023 12: 51
      Again. Whatever the article, it’s the end of an era. It's been a whole year already.
  16. 0
    10 September 2023 17: 16
    A sensible, extended, with arguments comment was blocked by the site. Well, this means that soon drones will disappear over the battlefield, and indeed from any general military battle, as a worthless means of destruction and control. Death to drones will be provided by generators of electromagnetic radiation (EMR). I won't be surprised if this comment is blocked by the site moderators.
  17. 0
    10 September 2023 21: 11
    The Mi-28 shot down that UAV.

    Ps. Something else is short here.
  18. 0
    11 September 2023 12: 50
    The end of the era of tanks, the end of the era of conventional artillery, the end of the era of attack helicopters...
    The end of an era of what else?
  19. 0
    11 September 2023 13: 00
    Despite the fact that during the Northern War attack helicopters, primarily the Ka-52, performed very well, the time for their mass combat use seems to be running out.
    Even before the start of the Northern Military District, many venerable analysts spoke and wrote about the decline of the era of barrel artillery. Today, this is one of the most effective means of destroying the enemy (as during the Great Patriotic War). So I don’t think there is any need to rush to such categorical conclusions about attack helicopters. The drone is not omnipotent or perfect, it's just another newly emerging means of warfare. And the war will show the plan what So, as my group commander said, we’ll see.
  20. +1
    12 September 2023 15: 59
    The era of attack helicopters and front-line aviation is simply entering a new stage of development. Helicopters and attack aircraft that do not enter the enemy’s air defense zone and launch guided and homing UAVs, the guidance of which is carried out from control points both from the ground and from satellites, etc. This results in a massive concentration of weapons at the enemy’s breakthrough site, and this is only one aspect of the novelty. Helicopters and attack aircraft simply become elements of aerial reconnaissance and strike fire complexes, where there will be reconnaissance and strike UAVs and artificial intelligence and satellite guidance. But to comprehend and keep up with this is the task of military science.
  21. 0
    12 September 2023 18: 30
    For every nut there is a bolt. Powerful suspended electronic warfare stations, optical illumination systems, cover drones - don’t drive the wave, don’t panic.
    1. 0
      14 September 2023 08: 06
      The price of all this... The fleet, like aviation, has almost hit the cost ceiling, the loss of a unit is a tragedy.. And as we see, any air defense/KAZ and so on are stupidly overwhelmed with the number of targets, well, the helicopter will cost not 30 million as it is now, but 100 million well This means that not 10 UAVs will fly at it, but 35! Here a different approach to counteraction is needed, but in the current technological structure this is not visible.
  22. -1
    13 September 2023 00: 43
    A drone is a tethered balloon. Yes, the rope is long. 100 km. But he won't go any further. Or you need a network of repeaters. But we don’t have it. And it won't. If there is a breakthrough at the front 200-300 kilometers away, the helicopter has arrived, refueled and is completing the task. And you need to bring a drone. As well as a support vehicle.
    By helicopter?
  23. Loh
    0
    13 September 2023 15: 54
    Conclusion: strike aviation itself will outlive its useful life, without any participation of drones in its fate...
    Question: when effective means of suppressing communications, navigation signals from satellites, and even the satellites themselves appear, what will UAVs do???
    1. 0
      14 September 2023 15: 35
      A helicopter can be a very effective tool in the fight against drones of those that fly low and slowly; a helicopter can carry serious detection equipment and notice drones at distances many times greater than a drone will detect it. The weapons can be multi-barreled machine guns of small calibers (smaller calibers have less recoil, for a drone even 5.45 is enough) and automatic cannons that fire containers with balls with programmable opening at a distance; in the future there may be low-power laser weapons.
      1. 0
        14 September 2023 19: 03
        Perhaps, but this requires serious modernization of helicopters. For complete protection without “dead zones”, you need to install several mobile installations at once and establish their control. This cannot be solved as quickly as modifying a drone to attack a helicopter. And the most difficult thing is how to protect the upper hemisphere, where to place on-board weapons to protect it.
      2. 0
        19 September 2023 21: 38
        You can try playing your own “shoot down the drone” game yourself. Ask someone to fly a drone in front of you, and try to shoot it down with a pneumatic gun. Once you get tired of the game, increase the difficulty of hitting a small drone from a flying helicopter.
  24. 0
    19 September 2023 21: 34
    The governors have just mastered the turntables after the horses, and you are stuffing them with drones. Agree, we are faithful to traditions. Only with the arrival of the next heat will your buzzers be considered. And don’t stop pensioners from admiring helicopters.