“History is written by the winners”: on the problem of objectivity in assessing historical processes

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“History is written by the winners”: on the problem of objectivity in assessing historical processes

How objectively historical knowledge? Researchers have asked this question repeatedly, and discussions on this matter do not stop, because there is no single point of view on this matter. As the researchers note:

“Any historical question is asked by a person who is in society. Even if he wants to turn his back on this society and sees the function of history in pure, impartial knowledge, he still cannot but belong to his time. Any question is asked from some position. The awareness of the historicity of the historian's point of view, conditioned by this historicity of the need to periodically rewrite history, has become one of the characteristic features of the process of constituting modern historical thought" [1].

In the context of an objective assessment of historical processes, we quite often hear the phrase - history is written by the victors; in the same context, the thesis about rewriting history is often heard. The latter is used mainly in a political context. We will discuss in this material how objective historical knowledge is.



History is written by the winners - the relevance of the aphorism


Let's start, perhaps, with the history of the phrase "history is written by the winners", as well as its mention in various sources. This is one of the most popular aphorisms related to our ideas about the past. In the book of K. Dushenko "The History of Famous Quotes" it is noted that this thesis appeared in France in the middle of the 1842th century. Thus, Alexis de Saint-Priest wrote in "History of monarchical power ..." (XNUMX): “History may be impartial, but we should not forget that it was written by the victors” [4].

The socialist historian Louis Blanc has repeatedly reminded of the same. About Robespierre he said: "The Defeated One Whose History Was Written by the Victors" (“History of ten years”, 1845). Of the Jacobins, in the fifth volume of the History of the French Revolution, he remarked: "The history of the vanquished, written by the victors". Subsequently, this formula was most often applied to military history. In 1916, at the height of the First World War, the famous American historian William Eliot Griffis wrote: "The generally accepted history of almost all wars is written by the victors" [4].

This phrase, in one form or another, was repeated several times by the famous British writer George Orwell. That history is written by the victors was recorded in his essay "As I Please" in 1944, as well as in his popular novel "1984". There it sounded much more radical, but the meaning was approximately the same: “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.".

It should be noted that in all the above cases, not just history was meant, but, first of all, the official historical policy. Politics really seriously affects the assessment of historical processes, since the past is a means for legitimizing the present. If, say, a revolution or a coup d'etat took place in a certain country, then quite often views on the historical past begin to transform, and in some cases quite radically. Let's take a concrete example.

In one of the materials of the international scientific-practical conference in Ryazan, concerning the problems of studying world history, the article "Royalists during the Civil War in England" states the following:

“They say history is written by the winners. This fully applies to the history of the English Revolution of the 5th century. The main attention, both in domestic and British historiography, was given to the revolutionary camp, while the Cavaliers as a party were on the periphery of research. In foreign historiography, this is connected with the dominance of the liberal Whig school of S. Gardiner, which took shape at the end of the XNUMXth century. The traits of royalism were touched upon, as a rule, through the prism of the personality of King Charles I, who was almost always evaluated negatively. The “glorification” of the revolution as the locomotive of history dominated in Soviet Marxist historiography, which led to one-sided and very superficial assessments” [XNUMX].

In turn, another historian Yuri Arzamaskin notes that the history of Russia, both in the Soviet period and in the pre-revolutionary period, is largely mythologized, since history is written by the winners.

Moscow princes in the struggle for the unification of Russian lands in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. managed to defeat the Tver, Galician and other princes. Ivan the Terrible turned the country away from the path along which the reformers of the Chosen Rada had led it in the middle of the 1918th century. In the Civil War 1920-50. The Bolsheviks took over. In the struggle for sole power, I. V. Stalin eliminated L. D. Trotsky and other associates of V. I. Lenin from his path, and N. S. Khrushchev in the 1991s. XX century - L.P. Beria and G.M. Malenkov. This list of events can be continued up to the alternatives of August 1993 or October 6. The winners traditionally write that everything they did was right, that it was almost the only possible solution to problems, and their opponents obviously were mistaken or were enemies of the people” [XNUMX].

That is, if we understand by the phrase “history is written by the winners” that the side that won the conflict interprets the political and social processes of the past from the point of view of a certain ideology, a certain system of outlook, then it really reflects reality to some extent and is relevant to present day.

This statement is also applicable to archival documents - if someone believes that they are a kind of fount of truth, then he is mistaken. For example, the American historian William Rosenberg believes that the very selection of documents for storage, their classification and cataloging are involved in the creation of a historical narrative. Archives, therefore, cannot be considered simple repositories of the remnants of the past, they are not ideologically and politically neutral, and the well-known saying can be fully attributed to them: “history is written by the victors” [7].

But in this case, the question arises: to what extent does history written by the victors adequately reflect the events of the past?

On the rewriting of history and factors affecting the objectivity of the historian


To begin with, it should be noted that the ruling elites of states do not rewrite all of history, but only that part of it that they consider necessary to rewrite. That part that can be used in the context of their policies. A discourse about, say, medieval chivalry will most likely be much more unbiased than about the Civil War in Russia or the Second World War, not to mention even closer historical events like the military operation in Ukraine.

One example of the politicization of history worth mentioning is the discourse on Normanism and anti-Normanism. In the Soviet Union, anti-Normanism was supported at the state level, and it was customary to generally deny the scientific significance of the Norman theory and refute it in every possible way.

With regard to approximate events in the historical community, let’s say, “official historians”, certain concepts have already developed (supported at the state level), which are quite problematic to revise due to the fact that historians share the same paradigm and will in every possible way prevent those who subject question their views. However, not all studies are interested in state machines, so the opinion that absolutely all history has been rewritten is also wrong.

In addition to the politicization of history, one more important fact should be mentioned, which seriously affects historical research. These are the political views and beliefs of the historian himself, his personal attitude to the subject of research and involvement in the issue. The historian does not live in a vacuum, he evaluates the world through the prism of his senses, so he cannot but have his own views on the subject.

For example, the left and the right have different attitudes towards history. As the historian of philosophy D. Moiseev notes, any essentially “leftist” theory proceeds from the understanding of the historical as an endless progress (“from the darkness of the past to the light of the future”) and evolution as a gradual turn towards justice. A significant part of the “rightists” comes from their view of history either as a gradual degradation of political, social and spiritual forms, or from a cyclical approach (“history moves in a circle”). And from one and the other position, history in any case moves either downward or in a spiral, and "tomorrow" turns out to be worse than "yesterday" [10].

As the historian Antoine Pro notes in his book, objectivity cannot stem from the position taken by the historian, for his point of view is necessarily conditioned, necessarily subjective. There is no Sirius point of view in history. Rather, one should speak not about objectivity, but about impartiality and truth. But after all, they can appear only thanks to the efforts of the historian himself [1].

“History is based on facts, and any historian is obliged to provide them in support of his claims. The integrity of a historical text and its scientific acceptability depend on how carefully and correctly the author has recreated the facts. Consequently, learning the craft of a historian includes simultaneously critical analysis, knowledge of sources and the ability to formulate a problem" [1],

writes Antoine Pro.

Another important factor that affects the objectivity of the historian is that he must understand the context of an era that was very different from ours. In the German philosophy of the XVIII-XIX centuries there is such a concept as zeitgeist, meaning "spirit of the times" or "spirit of the era". Proponents of historicism believe that each era is a unique manifestation of the human spirit with its own culture and values. If a contemporary wants to understand another era, he must realize that in the past time the conditions of life and the mentality of people - and perhaps human nature itself - have changed significantly. The historian is not a guardian of eternal values; he must strive to understand each epoch in its own categories [3].

Thus, it is impossible to objectively evaluate the historical process from the point of view of only the present, without understanding the spirit of the era. The German historian Oswald Spengler, for example, who criticized the dominant approach to the analysis of history and was convinced that history is not a continuous, linear and boundless process of human development, wrote:

“It is absolutely unacceptable, in interpreting world history, to give free rein to one's political, religious and social convictions. As a result, whole millennia are measured in absolute terms by such concepts as mental maturity, humanity, the happiness of the majority, economic evolution, enlightenment, freedom of peoples, dominance over nature, scientific outlook, etc.; and when the real aspirations of epochs alien to us do not coincide with ours, researchers prove that the peoples were in error or did not know how to reach the truth. “In life, life itself is important, and not its result” - these words of Goethe should be opposed to all sorts of stupid attempts to unravel the mystery of historical form through a program” [2].

The historian, of course, should strive for impartiality, and not to give vent to his convictions, but how practical is this? According to some historians, this is practically impossible. In particular, the historian Valery Tishkov noted that the historian must “... to strive to achieve the adequacy of the text he wrote to the real course of history, but the idea that this can be achieved is a delusion” [8].

And the historian A. Gurevich even believed that “any historical reconstruction is nothing but a certain construction of a vision of the world, on which historians have reached a certain consensus. The very formulation of the question of the objectivity of historical knowledge is incorrect. [8].

Science of the past or narrative of the past?


Doctor of Philosophical Sciences Yevgeny Degtyarev in one of his scientific articles in a rather categorical form claims that history is not a science about the past, but a narrative (story, narration) about certain interrelated events of the past.

“In order for historians to recognize such a narrative as “scientific” for the most part, it is necessary that it be of a generally accepted nature. Other narratives about the past are recognized by historians as “unscientific”, erroneous, etc. In addition, due to the fact that “history is written by the victors,” narratives, as a rule, are “ideologically colored.” First of all, this is precisely why (although not only for this reason) some historians may adhere to one narrative, others to another, still others to a third... History is not a science, but that makes it no less important for the life of society” [9],

he concludes.

This is a debatable statement that many historians would not agree with, for example, V.P. Smirnov, who noted that “if there is no objective knowledge about the past, history cannot be considered a science, then it is impossible to distinguish scientific research from the writings of graphomaniacs.” The historian Nikolai Vlasov does not agree with him either, who believes that history depends on the objectivity of specific individuals to the same extent as any other science.

Nevertheless, that politics and ideology strongly influence historical research is a fact that many historians acknowledge. History is really written by the winners, and it is they who give the appropriate coloring and interpretation to all the events that have taken place (and sometimes engage in outright forgery). But this does not mean that absolutely all historical research is biased, because far from all layers of history are of interest to politicians.

Recognizing that any objectivity is relative, the historian Nikolai Vlasov, for example, gave advice on how the reader should evaluate the objectivity of a historical work: first of all, it was a book, but this also applies to scientific articles. Since these tips are mostly sound, we will briefly outline some of them (with clarifications).

First, the you should look at the writing style of the material. If the author constantly appeals to the emotions of the reader, uses manipulative rhetoric, then there is no need to talk about the objectivity of the material.

For example, if already in the introductory part of the book about the First World War we see phrases in the spirit of “aggressive German imperialists unleashed a bloody war”, and in the book about the Civil War phrases like “the Bolsheviks saved Russia from the dominance of the bourgeoisie” (or vice versa - that “there was a beautiful prosperous Russia, but suddenly the damned Bolsheviks appeared”), then, in principle, there can be no talk of any impartiality.

Second, the you should look at how wide a range of sources the author of the study uses (although in many popular science publications and popular science articles they are sometimes not indicated at all). If, for example, a researcher writing about the Norman theory refers only to anti-Normanists, then such a study cannot be objective. However, a reader who does not understand the topic is unlikely to understand this.

Third, the propagandist basically makes an arbitrary selection of facts, coloring them emotionally, while the historian, who claims to be objective, even trying to prove the initially given point of view, avoids outright lies and is forced to cite, among other things, facts that do not fit well into his concept. In addition, the arguments of opponents and other researchers with whom the author agrees or disagrees should be given.

The personality of the author of historical material as a whole can tell us something, for example, if, on the one hand, a professor at Cambridge University, and on the other, an amateur historian and mechanical engineer by profession, then logically the professor will be more objective, since he is a professional, but In fact, this often does not work, since some “professionals” sometimes write highly biased works.

Given that there is a huge amount of dubious quality of historical literature on the shelves of bookstores, it is rather problematic to find a truly objective study. In addition, the reader can select books, also based on their beliefs, and ignore studies that do not fit into their system of views. Therefore, the advice given above is highly inaccurate.

In conclusion, it should be noted that history is written by people, and they often evaluate events through the prism of their own beliefs. In the same way, the reader most often evaluates the material based on his own views, and tries to ignore the information that contradicts them. American social psychologists Elliot Aronson and K. Tevris in their work “Mistakes that were made (but not by me)” rightly write that:

“History is written by the victors, and when we write our own stories, we do so like conquerors to justify our actions, to look good in our own eyes, and to appreciate what we have done or not done. If mistakes were made, memory helps us remember that they were made by someone else, and if we were there, then only in the role of innocent observers” [11].

Использованная литература:
[1]. About Antoine. Twelve history lessons. – M.: Russian. state humanist univ., 2000.
[2]. Spengler O. Decline of Europe, T. 1. / Per. with him. ed. A. A. Frankovsky. - St. Petersburg: Academia, 1923.
[3]. Oleg Plenkov. The disaster of 1933. German history and the rise of the Nazis to power. – M.: Veche, 2021.
[4]. Dushenko K.V. The history of famous quotes. – M.: Azbuka, 2018.
[5]. Actual problems of studying and teaching world history at school and university: materials of the International Scientific and Practical Conference, Ryazan, April 20–21, 2016 / ed. ed. M. V. Zholudov; Ryaz. state University named after S. A. Yesenin. - Ryazan, 2017.
[6]. Arzamaskin Yu. N. Periodization of Russian history: transparent clarity or the most difficult puzzle? // Vestn. Samarsk legal in-ta. - 2013. - No. 2 (10). – pp. 81–84.
[7]. Pimenova L. A. The fate of archives in the era of change. Book Review: Identity and Loss of Historical Memory. The Destruction of Archives. Acts of the conference "Revolution and Archives" (Moscow, 19–20 April, 2006) / Ed. Igor Filippov and Flocel Sabate. Bern: Peter Lang, 2017.
[8]. Actual theoretical problems of modern historical science // Questions of history. 1992. No. 8–9. pp. 159–166.
[9]. Degtyarev, E. V. Some aspects of the logical and philosophical understanding of history on the subject of scientific character / E. V. Degtyarev // Intellect. Innovation. Investment = Intelect. innovations. Investments. - Orenburg, 2021. - No. 6. - P. 106–114.
[10]. See Moiseev D.S. The political doctrine of Julius Evola in the context of the “conservative revolution” in Germany. - Yekaterinburg: Armchair scientist, 2021, p. 15.
[eleven]. Elliot Aronson, Carol Tevris. Mistakes that were made (but not by me): why we justify stupid beliefs, bad decisions and harmful actions / Per. from English. A. V. Lisovsky. – M.: Infotropic Media, 11.
53 comments
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  1. +9
    3 September 2023 04: 44
    History winners write

    Does anyone really doubt it?
    1. +1
      3 September 2023 05: 25
      The revision of history is driven by new facts and/or new values ​​of the society in which the historian lives.

      In the second case, the revision arises due to anti-historicism: evaluating yesterday with today's morality... this is as inappropriate as evaluating today's event with the morality of the past.

      New facts are a necessary and sufficient reason for revising history in the zone of influence of these facts on history. This reason for revision is, by its nature, an almost endless process, because historians use facts selectively.

      What then is evidence of high-quality historical work? In my opinion, this is continuous evidence of the search for truth: the author does not have the right to bring his beliefs into the process of selecting facts, and not allow his beliefs to ignore inconvenient or contradictory conclusions of the emerging truth!!!The search for truth is a necessary evidence of a high-quality historical essay, monograph, multi-volume work..
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. +5
    3 September 2023 04: 50
    The ruling elites of states do not rewrite all of history, but only that part of it that they consider necessary to rewrite.
    1. +5
      3 September 2023 07: 45
      hi I welcome everyone! It so happened that first I read another article of the Author today, and then this one. The impression that the Author decided to create a large series of articles about what he considers important today. good Very happy about it. Thank you, looking forward to other articles
    2. +1
      4 September 2023 07: 46
      I'm wondering who writes for our greats? recourse From my own experience, I can say that none of the military leaders I know have written anything worthwhile. Reports, articles and other “memoirs” are prepared by assistants, clerks, so to speak. Maybe it’s better to promote writers in their careers. At least they think logically and keep up with the times. Get out of the shadows. Even the heads of law enforcement agencies scribble on paper at all sorts of reports and meetings that are written to them in advance. request
  4. +1
    3 September 2023 05: 15
    smile
    Damn revolutionaries, damn liberals,
    damned reformers, damned...???
    This list can be continued indefinitely... whoever comes to power writes history... as is happening now in Europe and the USA.
    And so history should be written by archaeologists based on their artifacts... and without any own interpretations of historical figures... at least 50 percent of it will be reliable and impartial, facts, only facts and nothing personal.
    1. AUL
      +11
      3 September 2023 06: 41
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      And so archaeologists should write history based on their artifacts...

      Lech, archaeologists dig into the ground and draw their conclusions on the basis of the artifacts they found, against which you can’t argue. Historians, on the other hand, poke around in the archives created by other historians on the order of the then authorities and draw conclusions according to the task or their personal convictions.
      In order for history to be objective, all historians must be crystal clear and not have their own political convictions. Unfortunately, such things don't happen...
      Go around the whole wide world
      There are none in nature!
      This is me for you, blue
      I speak like a local historian! (C)
      1. +9
        3 September 2023 07: 39
        archaeologists dig into the earth and draw their conclusions on the basis of the artifacts they have found, which cannot be argued against.

        Alas, this is a delusion of amateurs.
        If there are no written sources, it is impossible to really say anything about the excavation, only a speculative interpretation. This, for example, was repeatedly emphasized by S.A. Pletnev, an outstanding archaeologist.
        Schliemann began to look for Troy, because Homer wrote about her. had it not been written, it would never have occurred to anyone to dig in the area of ​​Hisarlik. And then, the real Troy was "demolished", descending 1000 years lower.
        The vast majority of what has been excavated is merely an illustration of written sources, an addition with the same personal interpretation as any historian.
        Another example is the archeology of Ancient Rus': Gnezdovo, Timerevo - the interpretation of the finds strictly depends on whether the archaeologist is a Normanist or an anti-Normanist.
        In addition, archaeologists are not something standing apart, but the same historians, but with a specialization in the field of archeology.
        All other historians (of course, I'm talking about the leading universities of the country) have the same training in archeology in the field of interpreting archaeological sources.
        In the first year, everyone “digs” in practice, even those whose specialty is not related to archeology, for example, historians of the 19th century.
        And then, depending on the specialty.
        But what is, for example, dendrochronology or radiocarbon analysis - any historian knows and passes exams, regardless of the subsequent specialty.
        hi
        1. AUL
          0
          5 September 2023 18: 55
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Alas, this is a delusion of amateurs.

          Well, here I completely disagree with you! I am not a professional in archeology, but I had to work on archaeological excavations starting from the 4th grade. And a sorter, and a shoveler. And he worked with such authorities as Alikhova A.E., Symanovich, Puzikova, with his father.
          How do you imagine the help of written sources during excavations of sites of the Neolithic era or ancient settlements of the Early Iron Age?
          You can answer in a personal, so as not to clog the main topic.
  5. +2
    3 September 2023 05: 16
    “History is written by the winners”

    A quote that everyone uses very often and with which I completely agree was put into circulation by a mechanic at a locomotive depot in Munich Anton Drexler, the founder of the NSDAP, which Hitler would join in 1919...
    1. +7
      3 September 2023 08: 39
      With the authorship of Drexler, everything is not so simple, because this phrase is attributed to him in the Russian segment of the Internet. But if it is spelled out in German "Die Geschichte wird von den Siegern geschrieben", then German-language resources attribute it to Churchill and the philosopher Ernst Reinhardt, and there is not a word about Drexler. Therefore, given the absence of the original source of the quote, there are doubts that Drexler once said it. Bismarck is also credited with quotes in RuNet (which I wrote about in an article that dealt with the question of the attitude of the iron chancellor towards Russia) that he actually never uttered.
      1. +1
        3 September 2023 09: 09
        This expression by Drexler fits very well in the days of the Versailles Peace, when history was actually written by the winners ...
  6. +1
    3 September 2023 06: 06
    There is paleontology, there is archeology, and there is a drug addict Nestor and a collector of gossip and fairy tales Herodotus. And then only the lazy did not edit these characters - this is how the tale about Rurik and the fairy tale about Atlantis appeared. There is no truth in history, there are only interpretations and conceptual modeling. So yes, history is written by the winners. The main thing is that these writers of history be SMART, so that descendants do not have to be ashamed and patch up logical holes.
  7. +1
    3 September 2023 06: 49
    I would add that it is impossible in principle to write the history of the last hundred years, because a significant part of the events is unknown to historians due to the classification of many key events. For example, everything connected with the death of the battleship Novorossiysk is still a state secret, but if it was a sabotage, then this is actually a reason for war. This is not done so easily and does not remain without consequences - such operations are organized by special services at the direction of governments, which think for a long time whether it is worth bringing to this or not, and in the same way some kind of response actions are taken.
    1. +3
      3 September 2023 11: 07
      For example, everything connected with the death of the battleship Novorossiysk is still a state secret, but if it was a sabotage, then this is actually a reason for war.
      Well, and the death of the nuclear submarine "Kursk" in 2000, is this not the same reason? Yes, and with the flight of Hess to England in May 1941, there are also ambiguities due to classified documents.
      1. 0
        3 September 2023 11: 38
        There was recently a good video about the Kursk Premier League on You Tube. At least the cause of the disaster is completely dismantled.
        1. +1
          5 September 2023 11: 49
          Quote: ee2100
          There was recently a good video about the Kursk Premier League on You Tube. At least the cause of the disaster is completely dismantled.

          You should also go to the wiki.
      2. 0
        3 September 2023 12: 45
        Quote: Aviator_
        Well, and the death of the nuclear submarine "Kursk" in 2000, is this not the same reason? Yes, and with the flight of Hess to England in May 1941, there are also ambiguities due to classified documents.

        Both will also not be declassified for another 200 years at least. So it turns out that modern history is not a science at all.
    2. +1
      3 September 2023 23: 41
      Quote: Dart2027
      For example, everything connected with the death of the battleship Novorossiysk is still a state secret, but if it was a sabotage, then this is actually a reason for war.

      But the bombing and destruction of 7 aircraft and an unknown number of l / in the Dry River by the Americans is not a reason?
      However, they gritted their teeth, but endured. Just like the United States, which have been suffering the arrest of their warship by the Koreans for 50 years ...
  8. +5
    3 September 2023 07: 13
    Winners demolish monuments and put up new ones for their idols.
    There are very few people who are really interested in history, so that a paid historian will give an assessment of a particular historical event.
    This will be the narrative for some time. The narrative will change with the changing views of those in power.
    There has been no objectivity in assessing historical events since the XNUMXth century. Further it will only get worse.
    The author of the article touched on an important topic, but this is not even a shot at sparrows from a cannon!
    None of the historians will come and say that I wrote this and that not based on my knowledge, but because my superiors held a different view.
    1. +9
      3 September 2023 09: 20
      It's funny now to talk about history. She passed away as "science". After the adoption of amendments to the Constitution prohibiting other interpretations of historical facts, except from positions "generally accepted" in the country, to talk about history as a science that develops and changes its positions and assessments when new facts, primary sources, archival documents, discoveries of archeology, etc. are discovered. - impossible. This is no longer about science, which studies the facts and draws conclusions based on these facts, but about some kind of religion, which is now based on fixed dogmas and unchanging assessments.
      1. +4
        3 September 2023 10: 09
        The ban on interpreting historical events that contradict the official is a global trend for a long time.
        1. +1
          3 September 2023 11: 09
          The ban on interpreting historical events that contradict the official is a global trend for a long time.
          Quite right. Holocaust deniers already in the 90s received real terms.
          1. 0
            7 September 2023 11: 04
            Well, how small are you! This is the reference EDPN!
      2. -1
        3 September 2023 10: 24
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        After the adoption of amendments to the Constitution prohibiting other interpretations of historical facts, except from "generally accepted" positions in the country,
        let me modestly remind you that they began to remember about the role of Pushkin in the history of Russian literature 15 years after the revolution. And before that - WITHOUT from constitutional amendments
        - talk about him and his role was dumb...
        So not the first and not the last time
  9. +5
    3 September 2023 07: 21
    Very sensible article.
    good
    Out of the context of the article, I would like to say that, nevertheless, history is "written" by those who create it.
    Not only the winners can record what is happening in the current time, we know this all the time.
    For example, we know about the death of Constantinople only from the works of the losers, but who won the Hundred Years' War? Or the Thirty Years' War? Both the winners and the losers wrote about it.
    The phrase about memoirs about the 2nd World War is also known: "German generals who lost the war on the battlefield won it on the pages of memoirs."
    hi
    1. +5
      3 September 2023 07: 32
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      Very sensible article.

      Dear Edward! Now I regularly read the newspaper Izvestia for 1918. To write articles about informing during the Civil War. And that's what caught my eye: the newspaper reports on the war on the Western Front. With references to German and French sources. And it is striking that the German offensive and the annihilation of 35.000 Frenchmen are somehow written with more enthusiasm than the defeat of the German Prince Ruprecht. Noticeable ... But when the Germans began to be beaten in the tail and mane, the messages became ... short. That is... we signed the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and it seems like "we don't want to offend the Germans." And in 1939, didn't the word "fascism" disappear from our newspapers after the Non-Aggression Pact? Didn't they stop showing the film "Alexander Nevsky"? Little things like, but revealing and nasty, by the way. You can't wag your buttocks like that even in front of "friends". And these are newspapers ... And how then did historians curry favor?
      1. +7
        3 September 2023 08: 00
        Very sensible article.

        Good morning Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        Newspapers are an extremely specific source, you know this very well even without me, a source that always bears the stamp of many meanings: from the preferences of the editors, the owners of the newspaper, to whom does it belong? Article author? What target audience is the text intended for? or dismantled for self-rolling? Purposes of the publishing house, etc. Therefore, contextual analysis is often applied to the analysis of newspapers, for example, in order to somehow give the form of an independent analyst of newspaper writings.
        I remember that our teacher of Russian paleography always evaluated the "newspaper" through the lip as a historical source. Of course, in his words there was a share of the snobbery of a specialist in Chronicles, nevertheless, in Source Studies it was always emphasized that a specific source requiring verification and confirmation from other sources.

        And how then did historians curry favor?

        There are always historians, like everyone else: military men, doctors, journalists, biologists and engineers, and all the others who consider it necessary to curry favor, but there are those who do not think so. And it is not yet known where the percentage of those who serve is higher, I suspect that it is not among historians. This is not specific to 1939. C'est la vie.
        hi
      2. +4
        3 September 2023 11: 11
        Didn't they stop showing the film "Alexander Nevsky"?
        And where did you get the idea that it was then withdrawn from the rental? My relatives saw him then.
    2. +4
      3 September 2023 08: 04
      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
      history is written by those who make it

      For example, in Yekaterinburg creators also wrote a story - in the form of a complex drunk centerwhere schoolchildren are now taken on excursions ...
      1. 0
        7 September 2023 11: 08
        According to Yeltsin, a version in the spirit of the Serdyukov operation will still surface .. Although if you look closely at the situation in those years, there is reason to think about it ..
  10. +5
    3 September 2023 07: 25
    Hey Victor! What a good and reasoned article. My applause!
  11. 0
    3 September 2023 07: 42
    If history were objective, it would be a very boring subject. The problem of bias and propaganda will always be present in the work of the historian. It is enough to see how the history of the Second World War is distorted in the "works" of the pseudo-historian Rezun, even despite the presence of documentary evidence.
  12. +8
    3 September 2023 07: 49
    The "brothers" Biryukovs saddled the "Opinions" thread today. smile
    “History is written by the winners”: on the problem of objectivity in assessing historical processes
    Is the article dedicated to a new History textbook? smile
    1. +6
      3 September 2023 08: 03
      Is the article dedicated to a new History textbook?

      Bravo Alex!
      Good morning!
      1. +4
        3 September 2023 09: 27
        Good morning! Edward! hi By and large, the article is about this. Only the author, goes around and around, a lot of links, quotes .. smile
  13. +4
    3 September 2023 08: 32
    “History is written by the winners”
    In my opinion, we need to come to terms with this. Otherwise, we would not exist as a species, Neanderthals would write history.
    1. +5
      3 September 2023 09: 10
      Otherwise, we would not exist as a species, Neanderthals would write history.

      Because they would be winners.
      Good morning Anton!
      1. +2
        3 September 2023 09: 22
        Hello Edward!
        In Spanish historiography, there is the concept of "black legend", but the British wrote the story.
        1. +1
          3 September 2023 18: 04
          History or historical adventure novels?
          And a question on the topic - Haven't there been cases of writing history by the losers?
          At least for internal use?
          German scribblers wrote a lot of "almost historical" books about victories in the East and about their "heroic Siegfrieds on Tigers" and "Messers"!
          And some of the winners did not interfere with them at all ...
      2. +5
        3 September 2023 09: 33
        Because they would be winners.
        It didn't work out for them. The Neanderthals - then, they themselves were not bad healers, but they could not resist the new infection brought by the Cro-Magnons from Africa, not the main reason, but one of them why the story was not written smile
        1. 0
          3 September 2023 14: 54
          History winners write

          Not true. This thesis is outdated. Now: "history is being written" and, most importantly, "rewritten" by those who are currently in power. Yes hi
    2. +1
      3 September 2023 15: 15
      We are all descendants of winners. For example, those who ate the wrong plants did not leave heirs.
      1. +3
        3 September 2023 15: 20
        As practice shows (on the next branch), those who eat the wrong plants leave "wrong" comments.
        1. +1
          3 September 2023 19: 05
          All that remains is to detect the wrong honey.
  14. +1
    3 September 2023 09: 59
    History is based on facts, and any historian is obliged to provide them in support of his statements.

    It was read a long time ago, in a newspaper, I can't name the source.
    Chechnya, 1942. One of the reasons for the eviction of the Chechens is rampant banditry. In a newspaper article that I read, the historian writes that according to archival documents, one motorized infantry battalion was allocated to fight against banditry (in those conditions - an infantry battalion + trucks for transporting l / s) for the whole of Chechnya, this is clearly not enough, and he claims that in fact, there was no actual banditry.
    Fact: yes, only one battalion was allocated, at least I believe it.
    But! At the same time, the historian somehow forgets that it was during the most difficult period of the war.
  15. -2
    3 September 2023 10: 47
    In the Soviet Union, anti-Normanism was supported at the state level, and it was customary to generally deny the scientific significance of the Norman theory and refute it in every possible way.
    Seriously?! In my opinion, even at school they told about Rurik, so "anti-Normanism was supported at the state level."
    History is based on facts, and any historian is obliged to provide them in support of his statements.
    Here! Right! And then they took the fashion as evidence to refer to each other!
    Secondly, one should look at how wide a range of sources the author of the study uses (although in many popular science publications and popular science articles they are sometimes not indicated at all).
    If the historian relies on facts, then the breadth of the circle of sources does not play a role. And if a historian relies on the opinions of other historians, then yes.
  16. 0
    3 September 2023 10: 53
    That history is written - alas, but it is a given.
    Another question is that we write terribly.

    Okay, historians - according to videos on the Internet, for the most part they do not want to adapt to PR, like "experts from TV" and try to speak fairly.
    But I looked at the review ... "Only psychics go into battle" about the film "Maria. Save Moscow" (another failure at the box office)
    After all, lies are lies. Better than a Viking, Chernoble, etc.

    The authorities cannot even rewrite history normally. Although under the President / Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation there were or are special commissions to protect against falsification of history ....
  17. +2
    3 September 2023 11: 13
    History is written by those who can afford to do this) And not by the winners) Sooner or later, all the “winners” leave, and there is no one left who could personally refute and they are replaced by those who do not remember or are stronger. that's when history is rewritten
  18. +3
    3 September 2023 13: 37
    We do not know what happened in Crimea in 2014, why there was no blood. Why the referendum was March 16 and not May 25. Why, after the referendum, former Ukrainian politicians became patriots of the state they had previously abandoned, and they were entrusted with writing history, what they would write from their words, or rather, they had already written? Some study the history of the Second World War from the memoirs of Zhukov, whom Beria prevented from preparing the army for war. Even without Beria’s memoirs, we know that everyone, I emphasize all the outposts fought heroically at the beginning of the war, but it is still remembered by many that Beria is an enemy of the people. History has always depended and will depend on the political course pursued by the ruling class.
  19. -1
    3 September 2023 19: 32
    The main thing is to write interesting. Well, or sing like a blind Homer.
    The same Pikul simply re-discovered the people of Potemkin, Anna Ioannovna, intervention in the North.
    And none of the wisest, but boring, hung with references to boring people like him, who mutually refer to him, will not change this. And now there are also movies and interactive games.
    The leader said: “... in conditions of widespread illiteracy of the population, the most important of the arts for us is cinema and the circus.”
    Everyone knows about Chapaev (within the film, although there is a more recent film, but few have seen it - times are not the same), but only specialists know about Kamenev, there was no film, or about the same Brusilov, but after the revolution.
    In a more general sense, genetics now helps to elucidate some of the historical, and even prehistoric processes in human communities. But not the story itself. As Klesov describes, a massacre was found around 5000 BC. on the territory of Europe between the carriers of r1a and r1b, approximately the current border between the Slavic and Western European haplogroups on the territory of Germany. Apparently, then the border of settlement was determined, but given that it is not known what kind of tribes they fought, who were the leaders, to whom they prayed and what languages ​​they spoke - this is not History, is it? Or History?
  20. +1
    4 September 2023 14: 28
    We love to quote the Greeks about the "mother of all sciences" and, in general, mutter the unthinking boasts of history as such - but the very attitude to history is approximately analogous to the attitude of religious people to the "lives of the saints." Such instructive sacred stories, written not for analytics or reflection, but for an absolutely unconcealed and uncontested message, so to speak, straight as a stick.

    This is the problem of our attitude to History, because its value is not in fetishism, brought to the point of absurdity, but in the analytics and logic of our people (its advantages, disadvantages, typical mistakes, successful and unsuccessful moves) and neighboring peoples, close analogies and the study of similar paths of distant peoples, with which some historical relationship of the path can be traced.

    If you look at History as a collection of facts that provide a basis for analogies and models, then it does not matter who writes it. But if you write it as "the life of the saints" and treat it the same way, using it as one of the props of propaganda - of course it will be fraught. Including the degradation of her positive gut.
  21. 0
    6 September 2023 04: 57
    Only historical facts are objective, conclusions are always subjective.