How fast did the Titanic sink?

73
How fast did the Titanic sink?

Around 2:20 am, the waves closed over the stern of the Titanic. And the next one started story.

Somewhere above, the surface of the night ocean swayed, and the wreckage of the liner was carried away to the bottom. What was this path like - through 4 kilometers of dark, scalding icy water?



What happened to the Titanic in the first minutes after it disappeared from the surface?

Under normal conditions, the margin of longitudinal stability of surface ships is unshakably large. A tip submerged above the norm immediately causes an increase in the buoyancy force, and the shoulder of the restoring moment in this case can reach half the length of the hull. It happens that ships capsize on board - but no one has yet capsized through the bow or stern (without extensive flooding of the compartments).

For fully submerged floating bodies, there are no changes in the displacing volume at any inclination. Because of this, for example, difficulties arise in the management of submarines - where, along with the roll, it is necessary to monitor the trim. Maintaining balance in a horizontal position is possible only with the coordinated work of the rudders and ballast tanks.

There is no one to monitor the balance of sinking ships. Due to the uneven distribution of masses inside the hull, all of them, being completely in the water, inevitably tend to take a vertical position - and with a trim of 90 degrees they dissolve in the blue abyss.

As if in slow motion, settling in the water column, the liner touched the ocean floor


What happened during this "immersion"? Below is a chilling comparison.

Two steam engines and a Titanic turbine developed a combined power of 55 horsepower. with., which provided the liner with a maximum speed of 23 knots.

When dividing the power by the speed, it turns out that the propellers of the liner created a thrust of about 600 tons. This value was enough to keep the Titanic in full swing.

The mass of the Titanic exceeded the value of 50 tons. If the liner sank in one piece under the influence of only one force of gravity, then it would be pulled to the bottom with a force 80 times greater than the thrust of three propellers at full speed!

When moving in an aquatic environment, thrust and speed are related by an inverse cubic relationship. In other words, an 80 times greater applied force would make it possible to gain "only" 4,3 times greater speed. In the extreme case, when diving into the Mariana Trench, the Titanic could accelerate to 100 knots!

The real depth at the site of the sinking of the Titanic did not reach 4 kilometers. The influence of the buoyant force was not taken into account. Steel is 7,8 times denser than water, but the force of Archimedes will inevitably make its own adjustments. The formation of "air pockets" inside the flooded hull was not taken into account. As well as the resistance to movement from what was once the freeboard and superstructure of the liner. All these elements would create noticeably more resistance than a smooth bottom with hydrodynamically correct contours.


Visualization of the depth at which the wreckage of the Titanic is located. A 100-story skyscraper was chosen as a measure

The hull of the real Titanic was split into pieces. In this form, despite the forms far from perfect, with pieces of metal sticking out in all directions, the bow of the liner crashed into the bottom at a speed of 20 knots, burrowing into the silt at the base of the anchors. These are the officially announced results obtained during the study of the wreckage of the Titanic.

When flooded at a depth of several kilometers, ships sink at a very high speed, which can exceed their full speed. The whirlpools that occur when the hull suddenly stops when it touches the bottom add to the destruction.

Therefore, all ships sunk at great depths are so badly broken and deformed.

For example, the hull of the Japanese aircraft carrier Akagi collapsed and went like an accordion after falling to a depth of 5400 m.


The powerful hull of the Bismarck (flooding depth - 4790 m) withstood the fall, but the entire “soft” aft end of the Nazi battleship disappeared. Crumpled and torn off at the meeting with the bottom.

The destroyer "Johnston", lying at the bottom of the Philippine Sea (6468 m - at the deepest depth among all the sunken ships discovered), was completely destroyed when it hit the bottom. Ceased to exist in the form of an integral structure.

For all who are interested in the case of "Johnston", I will leave such a remark. The first images given out in Internet search engines do not correspond to reality. A slightly more thorough search provides comprehensive information about the state of the wreckage of the heroic ship. But this is an extreme case - flooding in the extremely deep Philippine Sea.

Finally, the Titanic. The bow of its hull, about 140 meters long, was bent in half by a blow. The skin burst and opened, the body of the front superstructure bent down by 10 °.

The stern part of the liner is hardly recognizable - it was badly destroyed during the dive and turned into a vast field of debris.


And did you notice something remarkable?

Ships sunk at shallow depths can be in different positions. But everyone who sank at a depth of several kilometers usually stands on an even keel.

This choice occurs even when "falling" into the abyss of the sea. Initially, everyone goes to the bottom vertically. But where the depth is too great, the hull manages to pick up high speed. The growing resistance from the superstructures and the upper part of the hull creates a moment of forces that tends to "turn" the ship into a position tending to a position on an even keel.

According to modern calculations, the bow of the Titanic met the bottom at an angle of about 45 degrees.

Leaving aside various ethical issues, such research may well qualify for the Ig Nobel Prize. But you must admit, it was damn curious - to the point of chilling goosebumps, to think about what happens to the ship immediately after it disappears under the surface of the ocean.

"Titanic" and "Titan"


After the death of the deep-sea manned submersible "Titan", all visitors to the VO at once turned into bathyscaphe designers. They shared their expert opinion and found more and more flaws in the design of the Titan.

In order to bring some order into the reasoning, it is worth noting that the strength of the hull has long been not a limiter when conquering the depths of the sea.

The history of the Trieste bathyscaphe, which reached the bottom of the deepest depression in 1960, once again proves this thesis. Two glued steel hemispheres with a shell thickness of 127 mm. The estimated depth that the Trieste design could withstand was 16 kilometers - if there were such depths anywhere in the ocean.

Unlike the archaic Trieste, most modern submarines have difficulty submerging even half a kilometer. This has nothing to do with the fears of the designers for the strength of their hulls. Unlike bathyscaphes, submarines have the ability to repeatedly dive and resurface. On their own, without the help of auxiliary vessels. This is possible only with the use of ballast tanks. And if the filling of outboard water does not raise questions, then everything rests on purging the tanks with compressed air - to float to the surface.

The depth of submersion of all submarines is limited by the technical aspects of the use of high pressure air and its reserves on board. As for the strength of their hulls, the choice of designs and materials is determined by the requirements of the depth from which submarines are able to surface. Typically several hundred meters. It makes no sense to make a heavy-duty hull for diving for kilometers - a warship is still not able to rise from such a depth.

Air reserves can be stored on board at a pressure of over 300 atmospheres, and theoretically this could be enough to ascend from depths of up to 3000 meters. But in practice, supplying air under such pressure to the tanks will immediately cause freezing and blockage of all fittings. At the same time creating the risk of compression explosions of oil vapors in the system. Finally, the design of pipelines and valves - the widespread use of air under such pressure will create unacceptable risks and difficulties on board the submarine.

Frosting of the valves was a decisive factor in the sinking of the American submarine Thresher (1963). A chain of technical problems led to the need for emergency purging of tanks at great depths, with disastrous results.

To purge the trim and leveling tanks, "working" air of medium and low pressure (100-200 atm.) is used. But this is only the beginning of the difficulties. Every 10 meters of depth increases the outboard pressure by 1 atmosphere - at a depth of 500 meters, 5 times more air is required to displace water from tanks of the same volume than at a depth of 50 meters.

A further assault on the depth in this way appears to be an unpromising exercise. To conquer kilometer depths, devices with other principles of immersion-ascent are required.

Unlike submarines, deep-sea submersibles are a float with a fixed ballast. The simplest and most effective solutions. But only with complete dependence on the support vessel. Without loading a new portion of ballast, the next dive will not happen.

In its classic form, the float was a tank with ordinary gasoline. Or 8 cubic meters of polymer foam - this technique was used on deep-sea submersibles of the Mir series.

The placement of the ballast also did not require super-technologies. Half a century ago, in the era of Trieste, lead shot was used, held in a funnel by an electromagnet. Nowadays, other similar options are possible. For example, the “galvanic” ballast clamps in the Deepsea Challenger bathyscaphe, corroding in sea water over a calculated period of time. The inevitable separation of the ballast - followed by the ascent of the bathyscaphe to the surface.

For 70 years of deep-sea research, ensuring the strength of the bathyscaphe gondola has become an ordinary task. Already the first representative of this class of technology - designed in the late 1940s. bathyscaphe FNRS-2 had an estimated immersion depth of 4000 m!

In June of this year, an unthinkable event happened - the shipwreck of the Titan.

For the first time in history, a bathyscaphe was crushed at depth by water pressure.


There will be no harsh expert opinions here, but it seems that the creators of the "Titan" approached the issues of ensuring the strength of the hull too presumptuous, focusing on other problems.

And there were many.

Diving to the wreck of the Titanic is very different in complexity from the "ordinary" exploration of the ocean floor. Control of a bathyscaphe in total darkness, in jets of unknown bottom currents. Near a huge metal structure as high as a 16-story building.

Follow the spot of the searchlight through the foggy small porthole, relying only on low-powered water jets, with which the device was barely able to develop a speed of 3 knots.


The presence on board at the time of the crash of the founder and owner of the company that owned the Titan rejects all versions of malicious intent. Stockton Rush really believed in his offspring. "Titan" was saturated with modern systems for monitoring the condition of the hull. Acoustic and strain gauges were supposed to give advance warning of a growing problem, which would force the crew to abandon further diving into the depth.

Many parts of the bathyscaphe were not certified. However, such private craft are exotic designs for operation in international waters where no safety regulations apply. The creators of these submersibles, billionaire fanatics, believe in their own genius and sincerely believe that industry standards "unnecessarily prioritize safety over innovation." In continuation - the words of S. Rush himself:

"If you want safety, then don't get out of bed."

Another example - the ultra-deep-sea Deepsea Challenger was a real home-made, in which James Cameron, at his own peril and risk, went to conquer the Mariana Trench (successfully).

The version with a dive below the calculated depth also disappears - the Titan itself successfully dived to the Titanic at least twice, in 2021 and 2022. In total, OceanGate deep-sea vehicles managed to deliver about 80 people to this place!

The cylindrical shape of the robust hull is not optimal for withstanding the pressure of the deep sea. But the form is determined by the tasks. For example, submarines traditionally have a strong cylindrical hull, but this does not raise any questions.

OceanGate pursued the task of building a capacious bathyscaphe, designed for five people at once. The very depth at which the Titanic lies (3750 meters) has not been considered something transcendent for a long time. For example, the Soviet "Mir-1" and "Mir-2" had an operating depth of 6000 meters. Where completely different requirements are imposed on the strength of the body of the apparatus.

Everything that diving experts (including the famous J. Cameron) pay attention to mainly relates to the material from which the Titan's hull was built. 800 layers of carbon fiber with a total thickness of 127 mm (5 inches).

Cylindrical tanks and pipes made of carbon fiber have long been successfully used in high-pressure systems, where tensile loads act on the walls from the inside. In the construction of a bathyscaphe, all the advantages of composite materials are useless - carbon fiber structures do not work well in compression.

In conclusion, it is worth quoting the words of Cameron, in which the fatal similarity of the two catastrophes is striking:

“Despite all warnings and common sense, the Titanic went at full speed on a moonless night among floating ice blocks ...”

Like the captain of a legendary liner, the owner of OceanGate drove his Titan to deadly depths, regardless of the opinions of other venerable experts from the "rich and desperate" club. Which for several years directly told him about the unsuitability of such an apparatus for storming great depths ...


Comparison of the dimensions of the Titanic with a modern liner. Still, 100 years matter
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +13
    24 July 2023 04: 22
    No offense to the author, really detailed material and it is clear that he spent a lot of effort on it. Yes, yes, it is readable by its high-quality study. Here respect and well-deserved applause.
    But, I would like to ask the author - since he has studied the underwater topic so much - to consecrate the topic of Bentos-300.

    Who among those present knew that there were real aquanauts in the USSR?
    Real, not virtual underwater laboratory?
    And who among you knows that Sergei Pavlov, having written "Moonlight Rainbow", wrote "Aquanauts" before that. And when he wrote this book, he spoke live with real swimmers from Bentos-300.

    I would like to receive a full alignment of this project from the author.
    It will be brilliant! Real swimmers. A full-fledged laboratory at the bottom of the sea where people live.

    PS And "Titanic" and (censorship) with it.
    PSS To the author, many thanks for his work. Really well crafted material.
    smile
    1. +13
      24 July 2023 11: 40
      About our submarine project 685 "Plavnik" (Komsomolets) it would be worth mentioning.
      Maximum length - 118,4 m;
      Width is greatest - 11,1 m;
      Draft on KVL - 7,4 m;
      Normal displacement - 5680 m3;
      Full displacement - 8500 m3;
      Reserve buoyancy - 36%;
      Extreme depth of immersion - 1250 m;
      Immersion depth - 1000 m;
      Maximum submerged speed - 30,6 nodes;
      Surface speed - 14,0 nodes;
      Crew - 57 man.

      To emerge from the maximum depths, powder bombs were used. Torpedoes could fire from a depth of 600 meters
  2. +9
    24 July 2023 05: 12


    Fuck. Just chill. This is how much we need, excuse me, to eat what such penises .. excuse me, container ships / hotels to do.
    1. +8
      24 July 2023 09: 35
      Quote: Gnefredov


      Fuck. Just chill. This is how much we need, excuse me, to eat what such penises .. excuse me, container ships / hotels to do.

      So I, too, went nuts from such a comparison. I read that now the liners are wider and higher, but so much so !!!!
      1. +6
        24 July 2023 09: 54
        Quote: your1970
        comparison. I read that now the liners are wider and higher, but so much so !!!!

        Well, today / less than six months left to wait / - * Icon of the seas *. Length -362 meters, for seven thousand passengers. The first cruise is scheduled for January 2024.
        1. 0
          24 July 2023 10: 05
          for seven thousand passengers
          The British call such liners "floating social housing quarters", by analogy with high-rise buildings, in which apartments are provided here for free to those in need. The contingent of freeloaders is appropriate, as a rule.
          1. 0
            31 July 2023 18: 21
            This is how long it will take God to fill everyone he wanted to send to Hell. Not just everyone in a row, but the most elected, from presidents and others, to those who wrap their bodies with twine in one turn and she is already dressed.
      2. +12
        24 July 2023 12: 03
        Quote: your1970
        I read that now the liners are wider and higher, but so much so !!!!

        And you look at how much more people have become now (judging by the picture) wink , those on the deck would no longer fit on the Titanic.
        It's a joke, of course, but the proportions of the people in the figure are as impressive as the difference in the ships. smile
        1. +11
          24 July 2023 12: 37
          Quote: NIKNN
          And you look at how much more people have become now (judging by the picture), those on the deck would no longer fit on the Titanic.
          Yeah .... Slightly lied in the comparison picture.
          1. 0
            22 November 2023 18: 23
            The figures of people in the drawing are too much. If you compare these dimensions of the liners by width, then everything is fine. The width of the Titanic is 28,2 m. In the background, the Oasis of the Seas is 66 m wide.
      3. 0
        3 October 2023 02: 40
        "Titanic" is a passenger liner, that is, public transport, and the object for comparison was a floating resort that does not perform transport tasks.
    2. 0
      24 July 2023 23: 49
      Gnefredov Yes, look at the Russian icebreakers.
      1. 0
        31 July 2023 18: 22
        This is how icebreakers were doing back in the time when the USSR was a big country. That's a lot of scrap metal left. Soon they will finish it and switch to toilet bowls.
  3. +11
    24 July 2023 06: 27
    As always, the author is an entertaining mixture of facts and fiction.
    When dividing the power by the speed, it turns out that the propellers of the liner created a thrust of about 600 tons. This value was enough to keep the Titanic in full swing.

    Let's share for fun. Only for this you need to convert horsepower to watts, and knots to meters per second.
    The power of the power plant "Titanic" is 46000 hp. (with 55 the author had enough surplus) or 000 W. The maximum speed is 33832943 knots or 23 meters per second. As a result of division, we obtain the desired thrust force, equal to 11,8322 Newtons or 2859395,8 tons.
    In fact, it will be even less, since the power plant has its own efficiency and the power on the screw is less than the power of the power plant, and we did not take into account the efficiency.
    If the liner was immersed in one piece under the influence of only one gravitational force

    The force of gravity is from the law of universal gravitation - the force of universal gravitation is directly proportional to the product of the masses of bodies and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. A body sinks under the influence of gravity.
    1. +6
      24 July 2023 07: 19
      Frettaskyrandi hi
      Of course you are right and absolutely. But be kind to the author. I think one of his first articles is worthy of indulgence.
      The article is good, the author is cool. Well, learn from mistakes, learn from mistakes. All correctly noted.
      1. +7
        24 July 2023 13: 27
        Quote: Gnefredov
        But be kind to the author. I think one of his first articles is worthy of indulgence.

        If you read correctly by punctuation marks, then this is a direct insult to Oleg Kaptsov, as the author of many articles on this resource laughing . Albeit always far from ambiguous, but often causing quite heated discussions.
        Respect to Oleg for the article hi
    2. +6
      24 July 2023 08: 14
      Well, I actually read that air is used to ascent submarines from shallow depths. From large ones, gas generators based on the combustion of gunpowder are used. And I also read about interesting designs of deep-sea submarines created in Italy, the hull of which was wound from toroidal pipelines and where, under high pressure, the gas used to drive the propulsion system was pumped in and the volume of which, when used up, was replaced by exhaust gases.
      1. +6
        24 July 2023 13: 18
        From large ones, gas generators based on the combustion of gunpowder are used

        Solid propellant (gunpowder) or liquid (hydrazine) gas generators are used only in emergency ascent systems.
    3. 0
      3 August 2023 15: 02
      "Stockton Rush really believed in his offspring. The Titan was saturated with state-of-the-art hull monitoring systems. Acoustic and strain gauges were supposed to give advance warning of a growing problem, which would force the crew to abandon further diving into the depth."
      ************************************************** *************************************
      And one more, small remark, here to this phrase, - ".. what would make the crew refuse to further dive into the depth." Alas, in such cases, professional designers are already saying "it's too late to drink Borjomi" ...

      For, in professionally designed, reliable systems, the operation of any (acoustic, tensor, temperature, gas contamination, radioactivity level, etc.) PRE-emergency sensors - sensors, AUTOMATIC gives a command to the control system (also, by the way, "duplicated") to exit (withdrawal) of the object from the mode in which it is located. Not at all "waiting" when and what the crew "decides" there ...

      Who still needs time to "digest" the information and then assess the situation + make a decision ... These are seconds. In other words, - ALREADY unforgivably long ...

      Alas, "faith" alone, even with "reliance on one's PRACTICAL, previous experience", does not replace professionalism in such matters ...
  4. +9
    24 July 2023 06: 35
    О fellow Kaptsov... hi Haven't been for a long time Yes A plus.
    Like the captain of a legendary liner, the owner of OceanGate drove his Titan to deadly depths, regardless of the opinions of other venerable experts from the "rich and desperate" club.

    You can't live without classy turns laughing
    Everything as usual. But still a plus. At least something dilutes the dullness of the site
  5. +10
    24 July 2023 06: 45
    lead shot held in a funnel by an electromagnet

    A question for connoisseurs: is lead a diamagnet or not? I didn't get magnetized as a child.
    Or some kind of supermagnets appeared? what
    1. +6
      24 July 2023 07: 02
      Lead is not magnetic. Try to bring a magnet to it yourself.

      PS But a very monstrous, neodymium magnet will somehow "magnetize" to it
      Here the question is the strength of the magnetic field (not electromagnetic, which we still argue about, since the time of Nikola Tesla).
      1. +5
        24 July 2023 12: 52
        By the way, who tried to bring a magnet to our metal money, to that little thing that they give us in the store? I will tell you the result: some of the coins will immediately stick to the magnet, and some will remain lying, absolutely not reacting to the magnet. And the denomination of the coin has absolutely nothing to do with it, the year of issue is important. Old coins do not stick to the magnet.
        For those who like to collect something, I advise you to throw old coins (which do not stick to a magnet) into a piggy bank, there are less and less of them in circulation, sooner or later, they will begin to be appreciated.
        1. 0
          27 July 2023 15: 44
          Quote: Bad_gr
          I will tell you the result: some of the coins will immediately stick to the magnet

          It all depends on the nickel content in the coin alloy. Nickel has magnetic properties.
      2. 0
        3 August 2023 15: 07
        Let's say maybe...

        The question of "magnetization" of a material or not will be determined solely by the ability of the environment to form in it the appropriate "domain" structures necessary for the manifestation of magnetic properties ... Either, only for the time of exposure to the environment, or retain these properties for some other time after exposure...
        1. 0
          3 August 2023 15: 08
          I'm sorry, "with some kind of fright, I wrote" magnetized "with a soft sign ...
    2. +6
      24 July 2023 07: 08
      Why did Trieste's gandol turn out to be glued together? Planned? Yes. They wanted to glue it with XNUMX-part epoxy. But they made it from two hemispheres, tightening them with bolts. With increasing depth of immersion, pressure made this design only stronger.
      1. +7
        24 July 2023 07: 31
        Why did Trieste's gandol turn out to be glued together? Planned? Yes. They wanted to glue it with XNUMX-part epoxy. But they made it from two hemispheres, tightening them with bolts.

        The first version of the gondola was made by Acciaierie, Terni from forged steel. It consisted of two hemispheres connected by welding. Diameter 2,4 meters (7,9 ft), wall thickness 89 millimeters.
        In December 1958, the gondola was replaced with a cast steel one manufactured at the Krupp ironworks in Essen. The gondola consisted of two hemispheres, an equatorial ring and two hatches. Assembled by Ateliers de Constructions Mécaniques de Vevey. The new sphere was also smaller at 2,16 meters (7,1 ft) in diameter and thicker-walled at 127 millimeters.
    3. +5
      24 July 2023 07: 10
      A question for connoisseurs: is lead a diamagnet or not? I didn't get magnetized as a child.
      Or some kind of supermagnets appeared?

      In reality, there were nine tons of steel or iron shot.
    4. +9
      24 July 2023 08: 14
      Quote: Lynx2000
      Or some kind of supermagnets appeared?

      The article deals with the electromagnetic mechanism for controlling the damper on a bunker with lead shot ballast. hi
      1. +2
        24 July 2023 08: 20
        The article deals with the electromagnetic mechanism for controlling the damper on a bunker with lead shot ballast.

        In the actual design, there was no damper. There was steel shot, which in the neck under the influence of a magnetic field turned into a "cork". After turning off the electromagnet, the shot spilled out.
        1. +4
          24 July 2023 09: 27
          Quote from Frettaskyrandi
          In the actual design, there was no damper. There was steel shot, which in the neck under the influence of a magnetic field turned into a "cork". After turning off the electromagnet, the shot spilled out.

          Here, I also tend to your version, they used steel or cast iron, oh ... cast iron shot as ballast. Gate / damper at depths with cold pressure how it behaves, jams ...
          On the example of one of the first bathyscaphes FNRS-3:
          "The speed of descent and ascent of the bathyscaphe to the surface was regulated by dropping the main ballast in the form of steel or cast-iron shot, located in two funnel-shaped bunkers. Electromagnets were located at the narrowest point of the funnel, when an electric current flowed under the action of a magnetic field, the shot seemed to" harden "formed a plug, when the current was turned off, it spilled out. The bunkers were located above the gondola, the spilled shot" clicked " on the solid hull, the crew controlled the process of emptying the bunkers "by ear". Two groups of emergency ballast were suspended on the lower part of the float body on drop-down locks. The locks were kept from opening by electromagnets, it was enough to turn off the electric current to reset. If the batteries were discharged, they were automatically reset and the bathyscaphe began to rise to the surface."

          15 - bunkers with "shot"
          9 and 14 - emergency ballast

          Py.Sy. Well, of course I know about the properties of lead. I thought to check here and send a question to experts in "What? Where? How much? Or When?" about bathyscaphes, shot, lead and electromagnets in a black box... wink
          1. 0
            24 July 2023 12: 50
            Well, I'm leaning towards your version too.

            In this question, "versions" are irrelevant. There is a detailed technical description of the bathyscaphe.
          2. 0
            25 July 2023 00: 00
            Let's. VO experts hardly read ...
            ........................
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. +4
      24 July 2023 09: 39
      Quote: Lynx2000
      lead shot held in a funnel by an electromagnet

      A question for connoisseurs: is lead a diamagnet or not? I didn't get magnetized as a child.
      Or some kind of supermagnets appeared? what

      He just missed a word
      Quote: Lynx2000
      held in a funnel VALVE with electromagnet
    6. 0
      26 July 2023 13: 57
      You slightly misunderstood! Lead shot is held by electromagnetic shutters, the shot itself, of course, is not magnetized.
  6. +5
    24 July 2023 08: 27
    Soviet nuclear submarine 685 project operating depth 1000 meters
  7. Des
    +4
    24 July 2023 08: 32
    "It makes no sense to make a heavy-duty hull to dive for kilometers - a warship is still not capable of climbing from such a depth." Perhaps there may be exceptions in light of recent years of news.
  8. +2
    24 July 2023 09: 10

    You know, on this occasion, during the Lord Mercy commission, more than a dozen experienced British captains were interviewed with the question: would they slow down on that fateful night? And they all answered in the negative. Because it was the practice of navigation of the early twentieth century. COMMONLY ACCEPTED. Is Captain Smith guilty?

    Lord Mercy is on the right, in the eyepieces. The commission concluded that there was some negligence in navigation, but the captain * Titanic * was not directly accused.
    1. +1
      24 July 2023 09: 36
      Is Captain Smith guilty?

      The Irish are still unhappy Yes .
      1. +5
        24 July 2023 09: 44
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        The Irish are still unhappy.

        And when were they satisfied with the British? Although they built the ship itself. But seriously, the investigation team should have had much more questions for Ismay. But? I repeat. This was the world practice of large shipping companies of that time.
        Greetings! hi
        1. -2
          24 July 2023 10: 02
          Good morning. If the bulkheads had been battened down, they would not have drowned even with their belly open. It is clear that they would have reached the shore in tow, but afloat.
          1. +7
            24 July 2023 10: 09
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            If the bulkheads had been battened down, they would not have drowned even with their belly open.

            ??????? belay
            Watertight doors were closed immediately after the collision! Another thing is that the design of the liner itself did not provide for complete tightness.
            A more modern * Britannic * sank even faster after a mine explosion. Here the bulkheads were really open.
            1. +4
              24 July 2023 15: 03
              According to various sources, from 21 to 30 people out of 1136 died on the Britannica.
              He drowned for 55 minutes.
              1. +3
                24 July 2023 15: 55
                Quote: hohol95
                He drowned for 55 minutes.

                Yes. That's right. There was a crew on board, as well as nurses and doctors from the Royal Medical Corps, plus ... already forty boats! Plus a clear * military * evacuation and no panic. hi
          2. 0
            24 July 2023 16: 40
            That is why the Titanic sank. With the doors open, he would sink longer and more evenly. The reserve of buoyancy was huge. And the hole area is small.
            1. +5
              24 July 2023 17: 22
              Quote: mmaxx
              That is why the Titanic sank. With the doors open, he would sink longer and more evenly. The reserve of buoyancy was huge. And the hole area is small.

              This is far from the case. As for the *hole*, many researchers are inclined to believe that it didn’t exist at all. But it was that upon impact, the rivets simply flew out, respectively, the steel sheets parted and water began to flow into the compartments. In the first six compartments! *? By the way, there was such a version according to which, if Murdoch had not decided to bypass the iceberg, but to take a head-on collision, then perhaps the *Titanic* would have remained afloat.
              1. +3
                24 July 2023 19: 50
                * to accept a head-on collision, it is possible * Titanic * would have remained afloat. It is possible. But it is easy to imagine what this would lead to, what destruction *.
                Yes, it would simply cut off the bolts, and the boilers, engines, would break off the foundations and break through the bulkheads. everything and business.
                1. +5
                  24 July 2023 21: 19
                  Quote from seamen2
                  boilers, engines, fell off the foundations and would break through the bulkheads. everything and business.

                  And this is only a small part of what a direct collision would lead to. Immediately, in a moment, the death of several dozen stokers, whose cockpits were in the bow, immediately, in a moment, death, or severe injuries to hundreds of passengers, immediately, in a moment, collapse of pipes / collapse of the front pipe would lead to the death of all officers on the bridge /. And of course, fires and explosions of boilers. In my opinion, the most experienced Murdoch, I managed to calculate the situation. But? There was no time catastrophically. In the literal sense. hi
                  1. 0
                    26 July 2023 20: 59
                    Well, it’s clear that the titanik was not an icebreaker. therefore, I did not even mention the rest of the destruction. this is clear *by default*.
              2. 0
                28 July 2023 05: 20
                Back in 1912, according to the rate of water inflow, they calculated the area of ​​​​the carnage. Around 1 sq. m. And what was there ... The rivets flew out or a scratch ... No one will know. But for a warship, this is generally nonsense. And the displacement of the Titanic is 50 thousand. Then, even before WW2, battleships and aircraft carriers did not have so many.
                With the slightest exertion of the mind, much could be done.
                1. 0
                  7 November 2023 01: 21

                  So there was a hole in no place, but smeared, as in this example.
    2. +7
      24 July 2023 12: 02
      Big competition. the need to maintain the schedule at any cost. However, as now, read about the catastrophes of ferries.
      1. +6
        24 July 2023 12: 16
        Quote: Not the fighter
        Big competition. the need to maintain the schedule at any cost.

        You are absolutely right! By the way, our author did not mention the USS*Samuel B.Roberts*! Which died in battle with the battleship *Jamato*. That's it, he holds the palm among the most *deeply sunken objects*. The depth is 6865 meters. It was discovered in 2022. The preservation of the remains is simply excellent, as the researchers wrote.


        Below is a photo of torpedo tubes. hi
        1. +3
          24 July 2023 15: 10
          Rumor has it that the Germans were the main competitors for the British in maritime transport.
          "After the birth of" "Titanic and Co", the Germans themselves began to build giant liners.
          The first in 1913 was "Imperator" (52 tons).
          1. +6
            24 July 2023 15: 39
            Quote: hohol95
            After the birth of "Titanic and Co", the Germans themselves began to build giant liners.
            The first in 1913 was "Imperator" (52 tons)

            That's right. * Hamburg-America * created a trio of giant liners. * Emperor *, * Vaterland * and * Bismarck *.

            On the resource before * its * there was a wonderful author, Alexander Privalov, who really understood and wrote excellent articles about liners! Try to search in the VO archive. Unfortunately, with the beginning of * operation *, the paths of the site and Alexander diverged. Reason? Yes, I allowed myself to write in * comments * what many are now writing about.
        2. +4
          25 July 2023 06: 28
          By the way, our author did not mention USS * Samuel B. Roberts *! Which died in battle with the battleship * Jamato *. That's it, he holds the palm among the most * deeply sunken

          You are right, the article was written a long time ago
          Blanks and ideas lie by year
          The preservation of the remains is simply excellent, as the researchers wrote.

          It's not entirely true

          Samuel Roberts is torn in two when hitting the bottom, this is directly stated in the video, moment 19:14

          A minute earlier, they spoke of severe damage to ship hulls when falling to great depths.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGI_6_gvmU

          1. +3
            25 July 2023 14: 09
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Samuel Roberts is torn in two when hitting the bottom, this is directly stated in the video, moment 19:14

            Thank you! I looked. Well, what can I say, the ship is, of course, damaged.
          2. +2
            25 July 2023 15: 35
            The destroyer "Johnston", lying at the bottom of the Philippine Sea <...>, was completely destroyed when it hit the bottom. Ceased to exist in the form of an integral structure. For all who are interested in the case of "Johnston", I will leave such a remark. The first images given out in Internet search engines do not correspond to reality. A slightly more thorough search provides comprehensive information about the state of the wreckage of the heroic ship.
            Apparently, the staleness of the article still makes itself felt here. The Johnston was found on 30.10.2019/31.03.2021/XNUMX, but then only a field of debris was discovered, by which it was impossible even to identify the ship with certainty. The wreckage was re-examined on March XNUMX, XNUMX, and then the main part of the Johnston was found:
            Screenshot from the video showing the 3D model.

            The ship is relatively intact, only the stern is broken off. But this is excusable for him, given that three shells of the battleship's main caliber flew there. Either 356 mm from the Kongo, or 460 mm from the Yamato (the latter is more likely). And then, even when the ship was flooded, depth charges exploded there ... The main damage to the bow of the hull was received in an artillery battle. He got hit hard, but still he is whole.

            And here is the video:

            (If anything, direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUYuVA9Rfs)
  9. +2
    24 July 2023 17: 41
    Air reserves can be stored on board at a pressure of over 300 atmospheres, and theoretically this could be enough to ascend from depths of up to 3000 meters. But in practice, supplying air under such pressure to the tanks will immediately cause freezing and blockage of all fittings. At the same time creating the risk of compression explosions of oil vapors in the system.
    This is not serious. It is impossible that such a useful thing as deep diving is not used because of such trifles. I can imagine a bunch of solutions to solve this problem:
    1) Make the mode of operation with frosting standard. Difficult, but doable.
    2) Heating of fittings.
    3) Air heating.
    4) Expel the water mechanically, with a piston.
    5) Expel the air with something like gunpowder, which during a chemical reaction gives a bunch of gases.
    6) Trim the boat to the stern and float up to the required depth dynamically, due to the movement of the boat.
    7) Place screws on the bottom of the boat that will raise the boat to the standard ascent depth.
    Anything would work.
    1. +3
      24 July 2023 19: 34
      This is not serious.

      Absolutely correct. On American nuclear submarines, compressed air is stored at a pressure of 310 kg / cm². The transition to a pressure of 310 kg / cm² was carried out on American nuclear submarines in the 60s (previously air pressure up to 200 kg / cm² was used) and required the solution of a complex problem of preventing outbreaks during air compression in the presence of oil residues from compressors. The solution was found by selecting special lubricants for compressors and developing a fundamentally new design of valves.
      1. +3
        25 July 2023 09: 58
        On our boats the air is 400 kg/cm². Problem solved somehow...
    2. +1
      25 July 2023 02: 28
      Quote: bk0010
      6) Trim the boat to the stern and float up to the required depth dynamically, due to the movement of the boat.
      7) Place screws on the bottom of the boat that will raise the boat to the standard ascent depth.

      There are depth rudders, and the ballast can be blown at a minimum depth just before ascent (and thus VVD is spent more economically).
  10. -1
    24 July 2023 22: 54
    I think an article about Lusitania would be more logical in VO.
    1. +1
      25 July 2023 10: 58
      an interesting remark, really, what does it have to do with just a civilian liner - this is not Flotprom
    2. +4
      25 July 2023 11: 57
      Quote: Katya_Ivanova
      about Lusitania.

      * Lusitania *? We look at the VO archive. * A shipwreck of world significance. * dated 22.08.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX
      Voila! An article about * LUZITANIA *. bully
      1. +2
        25 July 2023 13: 38
        Thank you, I will definitely read the article for 2015 at my leisure wassat
        1. +3
          25 July 2023 21: 11
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          Thank you, I will definitely read the article for 2015 at my leisure

          And? When it comes, this leisure? But in general I addressed Katya, Katya Ivanova. laughing In any case, I'm glad and open for communication! Transatlantics? Oh! Well *wrapped* I'm on this topic, no words.
  11. +2
    25 July 2023 09: 54
    Unlike bathyscaphes, submarines have the ability to repeatedly dive and resurface. On their own, without the help of auxiliary vessels. This is possible only with the use of ballast tanks. And if the filling of outboard water does not raise questions, then everything rests on purging the tanks with compressed air - to float to the surface.

    Submarines for surfacing first approach the surface on the rudders, and only then they blow through the CGB. In emergency cases, the tanks of the main ballast are blown out, and even in this case, they try not to lose speed and "jump" out of the water. At great depths, the blowing of the CGB loses its effectiveness due to an increase in air density at high pressure.
  12. +1
    26 July 2023 13: 31
    Quote: ArchiPhil
    The commission concluded that there was some negligence in navigation, but the captain of the *Titanic* was not directly accused.


    Something reminiscent, only with the opposite sign, the trial of the captain of the Camperdown.
    Who was charged with the fact that he _executed_ the admiral's order, instead of semaphoring "I did not understand you, please repeat" ("everyone does this when the command is weird").
  13. 0
    1 August 2023 13: 54
    At the beginning of the 20th century, everything was striving to increase profits, the sunken Titanic with its chic interior, then in the air the English airship "R 101" With the rich, the German airship "Hindenburg". It was on such tragedies that certain conclusions were drawn and vehicles were made safe . Everything is written in the blood of people.
  14. 0
    2 August 2023 08: 44
    . But in practice, supplying air under such pressure to the tanks will immediately cause freezing and blockage of all fittings. At the same time creating the risk of compression explosions of oil vapors in the system


    I will not copy all pearls. The author has a poor understanding of the structure of the submarine.
    -solid fuel gas generators are used only in emergency cases. They are disposable.
    - the submarine in a normal situation NEVER blows the ballast at depth. Only under the periscope. Or in an accident.
    -under the periscope, the submarine pops up with the help of rudders. And maneuvers in depth, too, only with their help.
    - if necessary, it is possible to blow the ballast with air at any depth. And no fittings freeze inside.
    - no oil will explode when blowing. He is not. The VVD is completely devoid of both oil and water. That is why breathing such air for a long time will not work. He is completely dry - loss of water and thirst (shda-hose breathing apparatus).

    Shame on the author. Well, at least read smart books first .... Before the tales are replicated.
  15. 0
    26 December 2023 21: 41
    These days, other similar options are possible. For example, “galvanic” ballast clamps in the Deepsea Challenger bathyscaphe, which corrode in sea water over a calculated period of time. The inevitable separation of ballast - with the subsequent ascent of the bathyscaphe to the surface.

    Well, this is before the first check with a good “dragon” - then everything will be painted and the aquanauts will have to stay a little longer.