How the rebel Sulla destroyed republican rule in Rome

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How the rebel Sulla destroyed republican rule in Rome

Romans in battle. Rice. M. Mattesini.

This article continues the story of the first rebellion, which took place for the first time in the Roman Republic, and the author of which was Lucius Cornelius Sulla.

Anticipating this story, I planned to draw the attention of readers to the key, I would say, fundamental issues in the development of Roman society at that time, which determine all other events.



But a number of respected readers raised the question of whether Sulla's rebellion was the first in stories Rome? And why does the author not consider the events when the Romans eliminated the royal power as a rebellion?

Firstly, because the author does not express his opinion, but always relies on the position of modern historians and ancient historiography. And the ancient Roman authors considered the expulsion of the king not as a rebellion, but as a legal act and the right of the Romans. While the campaign of a professional army against Rome was not such.

Secondly, in the Russian language there are many designations for such phenomena, but there is a stable tradition that most often designates a rebellion not as a movement of the masses, but as an uprising of military units against the authorities, for example, the Kornilov or Kronstadt rebellion, although, again, based on traditions, the streltsy movements of the late XNUMXth century are most often called a revolt, perhaps because, along with the military police, other social elements also participated in it.

But back to the Roman tradition. More precisely, let's consider the situation with the uprising against the last Roman king Tarquinius the Proud, and turn to scientific methodology.

The Roman “king” is not a king in our modern sense, not a monarch, as, for example, Nicholas II, the legitimate sovereign, autocrat of All Russia. Legally, the power of the Russian tsar is the supreme power, that is, without the slightest restrictions: the tsar is the only source of supreme power.

Unlike early Rome, where the king, in modern terms, never had such a prerogative. The “king” in Rome was the leader of the tribe, just at the time of the beginning of the collapse of tribal relations and the formation of the society of the territorial and neighboring communities. The society consisted of clans, the "king" did not possess any supreme power, he did not have "state power" either.

Modern historians and anthropologists point out that the presence of names for rulers: rex, prince, pan, zhupan, etc., does not in any way indicate the existence of a state or a monarchy, but indicates that this society is at a certain stage of development, where over next to the clans, the eldest in the clans or the senior leader of the tribe predominates. So it was absolutely with any tribe or union of tribes in the history of mankind. In such a society, some kind of government appears, but even in a pack of monkeys there is control and hierarchy, which does not make a pack of highly developed great apes a “state”.

Management in the tribe is primarily associated with sacred and judicial functions. The tribe is ruled, one might say, by “dad”, “patriarch”, “patrician”, an elder who sacredly possesses the key economic skill of this society: in an agricultural society, he knows when to sow, when to plow, but most importantly, he ensures the harvest and victories in a war with enemies, not so much because he knows how to chop or plow better than anyone, although he can’t do without it, but because he has a greater connection with the Gods than anyone in society.

But just because of this, he knows how to plow and chop better than anyone. Interconnected process. The sacred function is more important than all the others in such a society, and in the face of external threats (military function), the sacred leader had to fight and protect the territory of the tribe, lead campaigns for missing resources and punish neighbors who did not honor the Gods enough.

Therefore, the exile of the king in Rome was, as it were, an uprising of the “children” against the “father”. And this happened during the collapse of the tribal organization, when the "king" was no longer one of the "patriarchs", and the cause of the uprising was Tarquinius's claim to supreme power. It was certainly not a rebellion: bees against honey?

The next thing is that the ancient Romans would be very surprised if they knew that they had some kind of state, this is a Russian word that comes from the name of the owner of the court and family, the sovereign. In Rome, there was nothing of the kind and could not be: the political structure of Rome was a republic - a common or public cause. We traditionally call it the Roman state.

There was a fierce political struggle in the republic, even a "strike" - the flight of the plebeians, the confrontation was often accompanied by violence and murders, but no armed movement against the Fatherland, an uprising of the army, and the army was a militia of all men, could not be against the Motherland: the structure of society allowed. Against whom will the army rebel, against their wives and mothers?

But as soon as there was an instrument that made it possible to participate in the political struggle from a position of strength, namely a professional army, immediately rebellion became possible. And the tough political struggle turned into rebellions, and they turned into a civil war.

Why did the army become an instrument of rebellion?


While the institutions of governance (the senate, the consulate and the popular assembly) coped with the management in ancient Roman society and met its needs, Roman society not only existed, but actively developed, like all states and ethnic groups at that time, along the path of expansion.

It was such a society, with such a system of government, that was able to subjugate Italy and defeat the oligarchic Carthage, after which it managed to conquer or put the Hellenistic states under its control.

At the same time, a political struggle was constantly going on in Rome, at first patricians and plebeians, then optimates and democrats, it also stabilized Roman society in front of the outside world, but for the time being.


Stella with the image of weapons. XNUMXst century BC e. Asia Minor. Archaeological Museum of Istanbul. Türkiye. Photo of the author.

Agriculture was at the heart of the Roman economy. The entire population was engaged in the cultivation of the land. And with the development of the city and the growth of the population, the “land issue” arose before the community of Rome in full growth. The agrarian question was a key issue over which there was a split in society, the struggle for land was the main political struggle in Rome. At the same time, the farmer was a militia warrior who ensured victories and security for their city-state.

At first, it was a struggle between the first settlers of the city, its founders, heads of clans, patricians and settlers who later settled from different regions of Latium, the plebeians.

Of course, there were impoverished senators and wealthy plebeians, but social division went between the former and the latter.

As I wrote in the previous chapter, military expansion, when the city-state very quickly turned into a huge empire by the standards of the ancient world, caused economic difficulties for most Romans, which was reflected in social struggles. The wealth gained as a result of the conquests had nowhere to invest, except for the land. This led to speculation.

The inability to manage the captured provinces forced Rome to use the system of farming out, which led to corruption, bribery, uprisings and again to the corrosion of land relations. As one would say today, the unsecured money supply dominated the economy. The constant influx of slaves makes it possible to use them in agriculture and contributes to the intensification of agricultural production.

All this massively ruined landowners who spend time in wars and cannot work normally on their lands. And the natural growth of the population leads to the fact that there is not enough land: not the “housing”, but the land issue spoiled Rome.

Rome as a city-state was, first of all, not a "city of crafts and trade", but, like all ancient cities, an agricultural center.

Surplus money supply (coins) makes it possible to develop "banking" monetary transactions, which were, as in any underdeveloped society, usurious.
If debt slavery in Rome was abolished earlier, then the presence of a mass of debtors and usurers became a landmark for the period of the last century of the republic.

The presence of albeit primitive, but commodity-money relations, in conjunction with the above phenomena, contributed to the emergence of economic cycles: rapid growth was replaced by no less rapid decline in the economy. As we would say today, the money supply had nothing to do with a primitive agrarian economy.

Oh yes, in Rome there were even works on agricultural technologies, but they did not determine the face of the economy as a whole.

This causes massive pauperization of citizens. For such citizens, by decision of the populace, distributions of bread began in Rome.

In political terms, representatives of different classes, but above all aristocratic, thought about the situation, but they saw a way out in a return to the conservative norms of the early republic, which in the current conditions was a complete utopia.

The multidirectionality of social interests led to an imbalance in the management system, and so completely inconsistent with the needs of a huge country. In the presence of three estates, the division took place according to the level of wealth and poverty.

And the more often there were crises that the management systems of society were unable to cope with, the stronger social discontent grew, which led to mass violence.

The struggle was between the optimates and the populace or democrats, between the landed aristocracy, the horsemen, as a financial social group, and the plebeians with the Italics. From time to time, one or the other party seized power, but none of them could gain an advantage: the optimists held back changes, the populi sought to reform the majority.

This struggle began to destroy public institutions and society itself. And so it happened until another force appeared that could contribute to the establishment of a single principle in the management of society. It was a professional army.

There's a civil war going on


As soon as Sulla, having put "order" in Rome, went to Asia against Mithridates, Gaius Marius, the creator of the Roman professional army, captured the city after the siege.

While Sulla fought heroically with Mithridates, the "democrat" Marius arranged for his opponents in Rome, the optimates, a real massacre with beheading.

The leaders of the optimates Gnaeus Octavius, Lucius Julius Caesar and other prominent optimates and supporters of Sulla were killed, and Maria's military ally, the former consul Quintus Lutacius Catulus, committed suicide.

Patrician Lucius Cornelius Cinna, the leader of the democrats, was able to stop the violence in Rome only by killing the unrestrained warriors of Mary. The next election of consuls was won by the leaders of the democrats, Cinna and Marius, who soon died.

Cinna, having become a de facto dictator from 87 to 85, adopted a number of laws as part of the fight against the economic crisis: he wrote off part of the debts, carried out a monetary reform, increased the distribution of bread and evenly distributed citizens among the electoral tribes.

And Sulla, fighting in the east and personally showing miracles of courage, signed a forced treaty with Mithridates and informed the Senate that he was returning to Rome. Legally, it was again a mutiny.

The Senate, realizing the precariousness of the situation, was ready to negotiate with the rebel, but the consuls were not ready for this, both as leaders of the democrats and as supporters of the Roman "constitution". They preferred to resolve the issue by force. But the soldiers, who did not want to go on a campaign in winter, which could never have happened before, killed the consul and the leader of the democrats, Cinna. Sextus Aurelius Victor wrote:

for his excessive cruelty, he was stoned to death by his own soldiers ...

As we noted, the professional army had its own ideas, different from the public ones.

Despite the fact that the new consuls, Gaius Norbanus and Lucius Cornelius Scipio, nevertheless gathered a large army, exceeding the army of Sulla, their army was inferior in combat qualities to the victorious Mithridates, and after the death of Cinna, the democratic party in Rome did not have real, charismatic leaders. In 83, Sulla defeated the army of the consul Norbanus, and the army of the second consul passed to him. For the year 82, new consuls were elected Carbon and Gaius Marius Jr., 22 years old. It was he who met the legions of Sulla in Latium, where the battle took place.


Roman soldiers. Relief from Osuna. XNUMXst century BC e.

The inexperienced Marius was defeated, Sulla entered Rome and immediately went to the north of Italy to help Metella, Pompey and Crassus. While the struggle was going on in northern Italy, the tribes of Samnites and Lucans, allies of the democrats and enemies of Sulla, moved against Rome. November 1, 82 there was a grand battle at the walls of Rome. The Samnites pushed Sulla's troops back to the very Collin Gates, he rushed among them, persuaded, threatened, asked them to stop and not run. Sulla fought on a white horse, narrowly escaped death from two spears. While Crassus on the right flank was victorious. As a result, the Samnites and Lucans were completely exterminated.

How did the second rebellion in Rome end?


Captured in the amount of 6 thousand people, despite promises, Sulla staged a massacre in a circus in Rome. While he himself gave a speech in the Senate and advised the senators not to be distracted, as there he teaches a lesson to the scoundrels.


This is what the circus looks like today. Rome. Italy. Photo of the author.

The civil war ended, and the remnants of the Marians were defeated in all provinces.

Sulla, like Marius, was a warrior, but the first one became famous for being funny and conscientious, therefore, when he made the first coup, as Plutarch wrote, everyone considered him a moderate "leader of the nobility and benefactor of the people." The civil war hardened his heart. Sulla's terror in 82–81 significantly surpassed the massacre in Rome, which the naturally ferocious Marius inflicted on the optimates. So in Rome they realized that one tyrant had replaced another.

Sulla, who outwardly formally acted within the framework of the Roman "constitution", after defeating his opponents, and at the same time the Roman consuls, gathered a popular assembly in Rome:

He declared, as Appian writes, that he would improve the condition of the people if he were obeyed; but in relation to his enemies, he will not know any mercy until the infliction of the most extreme disasters on them; in the same way he will deal cruelly with all the praetors, quaestors, military tribunes, with all others who helped his enemies from the day when the consul Scipio did not keep the agreement made with Sulla. Immediately after this, Sulla sentenced to death up to forty senators and about one thousand six hundred so-called horsemen.

Brought up in the Roman political tradition, he tried to give his activities traditional legitimacy.

Here I have to make one digression.

Most people know that the so-called. Roman law is the foundation of legislation for many countries, the basis of jurisprudence. It is required to study in law schools.

But it should be remembered that the modern abstract concept of "Roman law", with which we are familiar from the codification of Justinian, did not have an abstract, some kind of "legal" character, as in our days. It was completely permeated with Roman religiosity, it was part of it. Without the gods, worshiping them, taking into account their will, there could be no question of any court and law.

Both Sulla and the rebel following him - Julius Caesar, and the founder of the principate Octavian Augustus, being thoroughly permeated with Roman religiosity and the political spirit associated with it, sought to correlate all their innovations with antiquity, rely on tradition. The development of history did not stand still, and with the further corrosion of Roman institutions, not without the help of the above, there was also the death of the old gods, which was reflected in the social structure and institutions of governance of the Romans.


Several completely dissimilar busts attributed to Sulla have survived. This is one of them from the National Archaeological Museum. Venice. Italy.

Sulla formalized a dictatorship for himself, under the formal pretext of the death of the consuls in the civil war. "Intertsar", Princeps of the Senate Valery Flakk appointed him dictator, and the people's assembly approved such a decision, under the conditions of a military dictatorship there was no choice:

In such a predicament, they were ready to welcome even the shadow of an election as an ostentatious semblance of freedom.

Even the terror against its opponents, which replaced the disordered massacre of the first days of Sulla's entry into Rome, was introduced into the external, formal framework of the law.

The dictator made proscriptions or lists, where the persons declared outlaws were indicated:

Many of those Italians who obeyed Carbon, Norban, Mary or their subordinate commanders were killed, expelled, confiscation of property. Throughout Italy cruel trials were instituted against these persons, and various charges were brought against them. They were accused either of being commanders, or that they served in the army, or that they contributed money or provided other services, or in general that they gave advice directed against Sulla. The reasons for the accusation were hospitality, friendship, giving or receiving money on a loan; they were brought to court even for a simple service rendered or for company during a trip. And most of all they raged against the faces of the rich.

As a result, 5 thousand people died. Further, massacres began with urban communities in Italy, their lands and premises were transferred to the veterans of Sulla. There were about 100 thousand veterans, so they were placed throughout Italy, realizing that without Sulla they would not get well, they actively supported him even when he retired.

Sulla recruited ten thousand of the strongest and strongest of the proscribed slaves, gave them citizenship and made them his personal guards - Cornelians.

If earlier the institution of dictatorship always wore a temporary order, and they were endowed with it to solve emergency situations, now the dictatorship has acquired the form of tyranny, since it was not limited by any term:

Thus, the Romans, ruled by kings for over sixty Olympiads, then enjoyed democracy and ruled by consuls as annual representatives of the state for a hundred Olympiads, again tried royal power.

Sulla observed the "constitutional" formalities and held elections of consuls, but he himself retained dictatorial powers and was accompanied as king by 24 lictors-axe-bearers, the consuls were completely subordinate to him.

Finally Sulla amended the legislation in accordance with "tradition". His goal was to stop democratic unbridledness, as it seemed to all the optimates, to bring Rome to the tranquility of aristocratic government and achieve "justice".

However, justice does not have a universal meaning, but always has an ethnic and political coloring: what is healthy for a Russian is death for a German.


Scene from Ancient Roman Life: "A Dangerous Lesson" Hood. G. I. Semiradsky. 1880s.

Based on what, he betrayed special importance to the Senate, increasing the number of senators: the former quaestors mechanically became senators. Therefore, the role of the censors controlling the appointment to the Senate, the most important control institution of the republic, was weakened.

But the expansion of the administrative apparatus was a positive development. This objectively corresponded to the needs of society: the old small apparatus could not manage a huge empire. A progressive reform of the administration of Italy was also carried out; the Rubicon River became its border in the north.

The cities of Italy received self-government, this was all the more easy to do, because all the elected posts were occupied by veterans of Sulla.

Subjectively seeking to return the power of the aristocracy, to recreate the senatorial republic, Sulla objectively destroyed the republican institutions: the people's tribunes could not hold curule positions, that is, they could not continue their careers, which made this most important elective position in the republican state machine unattractive. And the weakening of the role of censors made the appointment of senators uncontrolled.

The changes also affected the consuls, the highest executive power of the republic. Now one could become a consul only after going through all the steps of the managerial ladder, and one could run for a second term only after ten years.

Again, we see the interrelationship of processes in history, and there is no other way: the fall of one or several republican institutions led to the fall of all of them. It is impossible for one to exist without the other, that's exactly what history teaches!

And in the end, Sulla also adopted populist “conservative laws” beloved by all conservatives, who are often fans of luxury and debauchery at the same time: about luxury and excessive wastefulness, about marriage.

But... it didn't matter anymore, and here's why.

Sulla adjusted all three of the most important institutions of the republic: the senate, the consulate and the popular assembly. These changes were speculative, often taken under the pressure of the current situation. But it no longer mattered, because a return to a republican form of government was impossible, the real levers of government and control were concentrated by a rebel who became a usurper.

Historically, this was the only progressive way of development for Roman society.

About what further, and in 79 BC. e. Sulla abandoned the dictatorship and, according to Roman political tradition, confirmed his desire to answer for any actions during the period of the dictatorship, but there was no one who would have made such a claim to him.

He became a private individual, and all power was concentrated in the hands of his supporters or protégés. Sulla fell ill with some strange, shameful, from the point of view of ancient authors, lousy disease. Perhaps that is why he spent his last days in idleness and debauchery. Contrary to his own laws, the former Roman hero arranged huge feasts for everyone.

Personal addictions, power that corrupts, and absolute power corrupts completely, all these are just words. Personality certainly matters, but... if the leaders of the Democrats had won, was it possible that Rome would have gone the other way? More on this in the next article.

But I will not delay with the answer: of course not. Because in human society it is not individuals who determine the historical path of development, although they often direct it, but the development of productive forces and the systems corresponding to them that control society. Not Sulla, but different, although his monument on the Field of Mars was inscribed:

No one has done more good to friends and evil to enemies than Sulla.

Mutiny is not a random action of armed men and their leaders, it is always an indicator of the disease of the current mechanisms of governance of society. Whether the lower classes want it or not, the upper classes can or cannot, it doesn't matter, the rebellion as a mechanism demonstrates that the social management system is incapacitated.

The road of historical development led Rome from "democracy" and a republic to an empire in the form of a military dictatorship. And Sulla, it happened, laid the foundations on the basis of which the administration based on personal, and not collective power, the Roman monarchy, would be erected.

instead of an epilogue


Sulla, during the terror, allowed not to kill the young man Julius Caesar, who was in the camp of his enemies. He was married to Cornelia, daughter of the leader of the democrats and consul Cinna, and did not want to divorce her at the request of the dictator. And his aunt was the wife of Gaius Maria, and he was the cousin of the consul Gaius Maria Jr., who fought with Sulla.

You don’t understand anything,” he said to Caesar’s intercessors, “if you don’t see that there are many Maries in this boy.

The riots to be continued...
97 comments
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  1. +8
    15 July 2023 04: 35
    Thanks Edward!

    Right now I'm reading Colin McCullough about Guy Marie.

    It will not be possible to evaluate what is good and what is bad from today's position.
    1. +6
      15 July 2023 08: 29
      Hello, Sergey! Many thanks to Eduard, especially for the developed position on the concepts of rebellion and the state.
      However, the Russian language basically lives separately from history, and its wealth and polygamy (mutinies, riots, uprisings and coups) only surprises. Therefore, perhaps sometimes beautiful is more important for us to be right. And the systematization of the actions of "thieves and robbers" for our Fatherland is quite arbitrary and spontaneous. And it's always subjective.
      “The Tsar found out that the thief Ivan Koltso with Yermak had gone to Siberia. He ordered to put Maxim Stroganov in an icy room for helping the robbers. Only a year later did the news reach Grozny about the capture of Siberia, and he remembered Stroganov and released him with gifts.
      The correlations with our recent events are much more obvious. If you want the recognition of the people, go not to Moscow, but to the "Tatars".
      Thanks again to Edward, comrades have a nice day!!!
  2. +9
    15 July 2023 06: 34
    S. Marshak
    Simple truth

    Rebellion cannot end in luck, -
    Otherwise, his name is different.


    "Selected translations", 1946.
    Translation of the epigram of the poet John Harington (1561-1612).
    1. +6
      15 July 2023 10: 09
      Rebellion cannot end in luck, -
      Otherwise, his name is different.

      Good afternoon, sounds great, I will use it, with your permission, in the next article!
  3. +6
    15 July 2023 06: 55
    The agrarian question was a key issue over which there was a split in society, the struggle for land was the main political struggle in Rome.
    It reminded me: "The land question ruined the white movement, the land question almost ruined the red one" (A. I. Denikin)
    Thanks Edward!
    1. +6
      15 July 2023 08: 37
      Good morning Anton!
      It is curious that our generation accepts the phrase "red-white" only in the events of 1917-1021. Moreover, it is ready to break keyboards and throw mice at opponents, and what will our children and grandchildren say. I won’t be surprised that after a quarter of a century, the first person you meet will remember the retail network under the same name.
      Perhaps even then - this scar will be smoothed out in the heart of our compatriots. Unless, of course, new ones are added ....
      1. +6
        15 July 2023 10: 12
        I won't be surprised that after a quarter of a century, the first person you meet will remember the retail chain under the same name.

        Vladislav welcome!
        if she survives by then,
        sometimes you joke with ads from the 90s, and son: dad, what are you talking about?
      2. +5
        15 July 2023 11: 29
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        It is curious that our generation accepts the phrase "red-white" only in the events of 1917-1021. Moreover, it is ready to break keyboards and throw mice at opponents, and what will our children and grandchildren say. I won’t be surprised that after a quarter of a century, the first person you meet will remember the retail network under the same name.
        Well, some people still remember that in England the Reds fought with the Whites. A long time ago, really.
    2. +6
      15 July 2023 10: 10
      Reminded: "The land issue ruined the white movement

      Hello Anton!
      Yes, the agrarian question is very often the key issue in the history of human civilizations. hi
      1. +7
        15 July 2023 11: 29
        the wild beasts that inhabit Italy have burrows, each has his place and his refuge, and those who fight and die for Italy have nothing but air and light, they roam the country like homeless wanderers with their wives and children, and commanders lie when before the battle they call on soldiers to protect their native graves and shrines from the enemy, for none of such a multitude of Romans left their altar, no one will show where the grave mound of his ancestors is, no! - and they fight and die for someone else's luxury and wealth, these "masters of the universe," as they are called, who cannot call a single clod of earth their own!

        Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus...
      2. +5
        15 July 2023 12: 29
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        the agrarian question is very often the key one in the history of human civilizations

        Excuse me, but what about the "Jewish question"?
        According to many "experts" it is he who is the most key ... laughing
        Okay, I won't rant... smile
        Edward, thanks for the article, it was interesting.
        The mention of the deep religiosity and traditionalism of Roman society did not seem particularly valuable. Understanding Roman history is absolutely impossible without a deep awareness of this seemingly extremely obvious fact.
  4. +5
    15 July 2023 07: 51
    This causes massive pauperization of citizens.
    If I understood the long prologue correctly, according to modern historical science, it is mass pauperization that is the main driving force behind social upheavals and changes in power formations. The question arises, why did the USSR explode?
    1. +9
      15 July 2023 08: 41
      The question arises why the USSR collapsed?
      And did it fall apart into 15 separate socialist states that are now building communism with their own national color? Yes, and don’t forget, socialism is a transition period, these problems of the transition period are well reflected in the Golden Calf, not literally, the country wants to build socialism, but I don’t want, if there are banknotes in the country, then there should be people who should have a lot of them, about the big and small world, gradually, people who did not want to build socialism and those who had, well, a lot of banknotes, everything became more, the small world overcame the big one and collapse occurred, the new world was not in their interests. They needed a world that satisfies their personal needs, and not public ones. This is so, very briefly.
      1. +6
        15 July 2023 12: 27
        “Well, what if the correct relationship between the vanguard and the class, if the relationship of “mutual trust” between the party and the class is broken? mutual trust?

        Are such cases even possible? Yes, they are. They are possible:

        1) if the party begins to build its authority among the masses not on its work and the trust of the masses, but on its “unrestricted” rights;

        2) if the party's policy is clearly wrong, but it does not want to review and correct its mistake;

        3) if the policy of the Party is correct, in general, but the masses are not yet ready to assimilate it, and the Party does not want or is not able to wait in order to give the masses the opportunity to be convinced by their own experience of the correctness of the policy of the Party and tries to impose it on the masses.

        The history of our Party provides a number of such cases. Various factions and factions in our party fell and dispersed because they violated one of these three conditions, and sometimes all of these conditions taken together.

        But it follows from this that the opposition of the dictatorship of the proletariat to the “dictatorship” (leadership) of the party cannot be recognized as correct only if: [p.48]

        1) if by the dictatorship of the party in relation to the working class we understand not dictatorship in the proper sense of the word (“power based on violence”), but the leadership of the party, which excludes violence against the working class as a whole, over its majority, as Lenin understands exactly this ;

        2) if the party has the qualifications to be the real leader of the class, i.e., if the policy of the party is correct, if this policy corresponds to the interests of the class;

        3) if the class, if the majority of the class, accepts this policy, assimilates it, becomes convinced, thanks to the work of the Party, of the correctness of this policy, trusts the Party and supports it.

        Violation of these conditions inevitably causes a conflict between the party and the class, a split between them, and their opposition to each other. Is it possible to force the leadership of the Party on a class? No you can not. In any case, such leadership cannot be of any length."



        Stalin
    2. +9
      15 July 2023 09: 38
      The question arises, why did the USSR explode?

      Relevance - this problem will go away with us who were born in the USSR.
      1. +7
        15 July 2023 10: 51
        Relevance - this problem will go away with us who were born in the USSR.

        Like the death of Ancient Rome, the fall of Constantinople, the death of the world's first socialist state will always be relevant for inquisitive minds.
        hi
        1. +3
          15 July 2023 12: 17
          the death of Ancient Rome, the fall of Constantinople, the death of the world's first socialist state
          The elites of these formations were brought to collapse, as one of the main reasons, although there were enough reasons.
        2. +6
          15 July 2023 12: 26
          Quote: Edward Vashchenko
          Relevance - this problem will go away with us who were born in the USSR.

          Like the death of Ancient Rome, the fall of Constantinople, the death of the world's first socialist state will always be relevant for inquisitive minds.
          hi

          Edward, without irony, the death of Rome excites only a small part of humanity. The big one is interested in much more prosaic matters: money, women and cars. Even with rare exceptions, hockey, boxing and football.
          Experience from cadet years. It is rare that a girl could be captivated by a story about Caesar or Kant, but the first ones were always led by Freud with his “simple” theory that everything is possible and always. Especially if it was supported by something on four wheels in the form of a vehicle. laughing
          R.s. Eduard - You are great! The article is cool, especially in the paradigm of education !!! Thanks a lot!
          1. +3
            15 July 2023 15: 45
            Edward, without irony, the death of Rome excites only a small part of humanity. The big one is interested in much more prosaic matters: money, women and cars.

            100 500% agree
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          2. +2
            15 July 2023 18: 03
            It is rare that a girl could be captivated by a story about Caesar or Kant,
            My friend, I carried away my first love with the retelling of "The Inhabited Island". We were 15...
      2. +10
        15 July 2023 10: 55
        No, she will not leave, she was and will be. Take, any revolution, each has its own specifics, from the Hussite movement, until August 1991 in the USSR, only we don’t dig deep, except for Vashchenko. If you remember, Ryzhov had a series articles about the Hussites, so superficially, basically, wrote comments on the article, but few people were interested. The public was more interested in weapons, tactics. "Of course, we will feed, but to remake brains - here 10 years is not enough. Maybe 20 is not enough "(c). I am such a joyless person and very harmful. laughing
      3. +6
        15 July 2023 12: 34
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Relevance - this problem will go away with us who were born in the USSR.

        Disagree, Vlad.
        I am convinced that the future of mankind lies precisely in socialism and the experience of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers in building the first socialist state, as well as the sad experience of the fathers associated with the death of this state, will be in demand for many more years, if not centuries.
        And to all these questions, in particular about the causes of the death of the USSR, it is necessary to look for answers and find them.
        hi
      4. +2
        15 July 2023 20: 02
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Relevance - this problem will go away with us who were born in the USSR.

        Or maybe we ruined it, huh? Quietly, quietly, in our places, what am I? I'm waiting for an order, I quietly and peacefully do the work, and so on? Look! And there is no Great State. Great? Yes! It was great, but? at that difficult time. The collapse of empires? A matter of time. Like the 91st, like the 93rd. I will immediately notice that what is happening now is .... sorry .... profanity. Why? exist question questions .
        I don’t believe Putin, who assured that there would be no pension reform. As well as what is happening in the West. * These * !!!! They have their own goals. Do the Slavs? No. Destruction of the Slavs? Yes! Think.
        1. +2
          15 July 2023 20: 09
          How can you trust someone who Yeltsin allowed!!! to lead the country?
    3. +6
      15 July 2023 10: 49
      This causes massive pauperization of citizens.
      If I understood the long prologue correctly, according to modern historical science, it is mass pauperization that is the main driving force behind social upheavals and changes in power formations.

      Anton, it is necessary to make an amendment, pauperization in Rome, and not everywhere, led, along with a number of reasons that were interconnected, to the fall of the republican oligarchic form of government.
      There was no change in the formation in Rome: the system of government changed from republican to monarchical.
      Best regards,
      PS As for the change of formations, where they took place in a revolutionary way, the poor have always played the most important role. for example, Kropotkin wrote about this in the 19th century about the French Revolution. However, he did not discover the Americas here.
      hi
      1. +4
        15 July 2023 11: 52
        Edward, our form of government is often confused with the formation and does not take into account that the poor were the driving force of the revolutions, sometimes without considering who was the organizer.
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 12: 29
          Edward, we have a form of government, often confused with the formation and do not take into account

          Alexey, good afternoon,
          totally agree.
          One thing is the formation, another thing is the form of management in it. There may be several forms of control, there may be only one.
          hi
        2. +4
          15 July 2023 12: 38
          Quote: parusnik
          who was the organizer.

          And this question is very clear. The intelligentsia has been, is and will be the organizing force of any social movement. A sort of multi-class, and therefore non-class or even above-class stratum, always sitting as a caustic thorn in the ass of any ruling regime.
      2. +3
        15 July 2023 12: 05
        changed the system of government from republican to monarchical

        I would not say that the principate is still a monarchy. The real monarchy in the form of Dominate was established only by Diocletian. Although - of course there were urges for her earlier, from the same Aurelian.

        But the Romans themselves of the era of the principate, especially the early ones, seemed to be firmly convinced that they continued to live in the Republic .. And in general, they had every reason to do so, because the foundations of the princeps' power were purely republican. He was the first present in the Senate, the tribune of the people, the bearer of the empire, and so on. Well, the fact that the balance of the branches of power has changed, so this is like an everyday thing ..
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 12: 34
          But the Romans themselves of the era of the principate, especially the early ones, seemed to be firmly convinced that they continued to live in the Republic ..

          Good afternoon,
          I agree completely! But this does not mean that we should think so: the republic has fallen - the monarchy has come.
          I agree with you about the principate and domination, although these are different forms of the same type of government - the monarchy.
          State administration under Alexei Mikhailovich was seriously different from the period of Nicholas I - but both, the monarchy.
          1. +3
            15 July 2023 13: 16
            although these are different forms of the same type of government - monarchy

            Still, it's not quite like that. For example, taxes under the Principate were still established by the Senate, not the princeps. And there are many such moments. What kind of monarchy is this?
    4. +3
      15 July 2023 12: 01
      The question arises, why did the USSR explode?

      The USSR collapsed exactly for the reasons that all the founders so stubbornly warned about, from Kropotkin and Plekhanov, to Stalin and Trotsky. Everything happened according to the classics. But why this nevertheless happened, despite the obvious danger, is a question for a separate discussion ..
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +4
    15 July 2023 08: 45
    You don’t understand anything,” he said to Caesar’s intercessors, “if you don’t see that there are many Maries in this boy.
    I exaggerated a little, of course, but in principle I was right.
    Sulla, during the terror, allowed not to kill the young man Julius Caesar, who was in the camp of his enemies.
    Trembling, the heart of the dictator. smile
    1. +5
      15 July 2023 10: 11
      Good day Alexey!
      I think it did not flinch, he was just ready to go to the end. I dare to suggest that in the face of young Guy he saw himself and warned the "applicants." So the "kind gesture" of the dictator is a whim or a lesson to the neo-reasonable.
      1. +4
        15 July 2023 10: 58
        Good afternoon! hi And given that Julius had a lot of petitioners in front of Sulla, whose opinion he valued, he went to meet them, connections, no one has yet canceled. smile
  7. +4
    15 July 2023 11: 32
    Good day to all! hi
    Thanks Edward for the article! By the way, soon my opus will come out, though it is about proscriptions. I hope it will be interesting!
    1. +4
      15 July 2023 12: 36
      By the way, soon my opus will come out, though it is about proscriptions. I hope it will be interesting!

      Good afternoon, good luck!
      1. +2
        15 July 2023 12: 59
        Quote: Edward Vashchenko
        By the way, soon my opus will come out, though it is about proscriptions. I hope it will be interesting!

        Good afternoon, good luck!

        Good afternoon Edward, thank you! hi
        Have a nice day! hi
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 13: 18
          Have a nice day!

          Artem and have a nice day!
  8. +3
    15 July 2023 11: 39

    Lucius Cornelius Sulla. This is the photo that will be in my article.
  9. +5
    15 July 2023 12: 06
    Returning to ours with my sincerely respected Edward (Author) - sheep (dispute about the state).
    From the article.
    Modern historians and anthropologists point out that the presence of names for rulers: rex, prince, pan, zhupan, etc., does not in any way indicate the existence of a state or a monarchy, but indicates that this society is at a certain stage of development, where over next to the clans, the eldest in the clans or the senior leader of the tribe predominates. So it was absolutely with any tribe or union of tribes in the history of mankind. In such a society, some kind of government appears, but even in a pack of monkeys there is control and hierarchy, which does not make a pack of highly developed great apes a “state”.

    That is, the state must have a certain set of features (markers).
    I give the first definition of the state on a search engine from the Internet.
    . The state is a political form of organization of society in a certain territory, a sovereign form of public power, which has an apparatus of control and coercion, to which the entire population of the country is subject.

    We evict its signs from the term:
    1. The political form of the organization of society in a certain territory. If on the “fingers”, from a legal point of view, two mandatory markers stand out:
    1.1. Form of government: federal or unitary (we leave the rest, like the confederation, out of the brackets - this is a topic for a separate discussion).
    1.2. Form of government: monarchy or republic.
    Moreover, these markers should spread to the territory of the entire state, but the principle of uniformity is not mandatory.
    2. Sovereignty. Optional features will not paint - boring. The most important thing is the independent nature of the implementation of paragraphs 1.1.,1.2. and the presence of force (army). Whether it will be a squad, or a people's militia in the form of militia from hoplites (phalanxes) or no less popular from legionnaires, the question is secondary.
    3. The public nature of power. In short - the open nature of the institutions of power, which will be discussed below and the consent of the population (acceptance) of paragraphs 1.1, 1.2 and 2.
    If you're being sarcastic - "Vaska from the village of Gadyukino, he should know that Petka is in the kingdom."
    4. Apparatus of control and coercion. the term does not reveal the structure or scope of power. From the point of view of jurisprudence, it makes no difference whether it will be 10 censors or children with a retinue or an army of bureaucrats of many thousands. The main thing is its functionality and efficiency.
    5. Recognition of power by the population. Banal agreement with points 1-4. The conjectures of modern historians about the sacred nature of the power of the leader or elder, the link to the economic model or the property nature of ownership - this is a banal complication of the structure. They ate hard - the very justification of their existence in the form of writing scientific papers and defending dissertations, the end result of which is receiving a share of the "pie" from taxes from the population. There are no ideological historians from high science for a long time (however, as well as lawyers, teachers and doctors). The right ones are at the bottom: they search, write, teach and treat. Even when I come to work and do my job, I figuratively tear a piece out of this pie. Moreover, I am well aware that, ideally, it would be better if there were no front of my work in principle, and the “piece of the pie” remained in people's pockets. Conditionally, without embellishment, the value of any article by Eduard overlaps by an order of magnitude a week of my work in the coercive apparatus. Since one of the tasks of the state is the reproduction of resources for its management institutions, and a competent and ideological resource is expensive - without irony it is expensive.
    Edward is my personal opinion. Modern humanitarian science suffers from the complication of ordinary and understandable things. Moreover, the position - you do not understand anything, because you do not possess .... vicious.
    Well, somewhere like that. For God's sake, don't be offended! Without irony, I am proud that I can argue on this subject with you. It's been almost three years now....
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. +6
      15 July 2023 12: 26
      Since one of the tasks of the state is the reproduction of resources for its management institutions
      And all states are classless and do not defend the interests of those classes that are in power. Why complicate it? smile
    2. +5
      15 July 2023 12: 47
      Without irony, I am proud that I can argue on this subject with you. It's been almost three years now....

      Vladislav! Alaverdy.
      Communication with you stimulates, makes you clearly state. And he disciplines me, and in these three years I have understood a lot for myself. What would not be possible without discussions with you and at VO.
      I'm sorry, but I'm at a very blue sea now, it's hard to argue hi
      Best regards,
      Edward
    3. +6
      15 July 2023 13: 03
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Returning to ours with my sincerely respected Edward (Author) - sheep (dispute about the state).

      It was the case that Edward and I wound up on the subject of a dispute about the state.
      It turned out that the definition of the state from the course "Theory of State and Law" by Edward, and in his person, of course, part of the historical scientific community, does not suit and, in their opinion, requires revision or clarification. However, until now, a canonical, unified, definition of the concept of "state" in the historical context has not been developed, alas. In the meantime, it has not been developed (and, let me remind you, historians, at least some of them, are not satisfied with the existing one), any discussions on this topic, in principle, do not make sense.
      In our opinion, yes - the state is a strictly defined territory within which there is one power with all its branches, tools and other things. But not everyone is satisfied with this approach, although I personally do not understand why. smile
      1. +3
        15 July 2023 13: 22
        Good afternoon, Michael! hi
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        However, until now, a canonical, unified, definition of the concept of "state" in the historical context has not been developed, alas.

        It is sad... crying
      2. +5
        15 July 2023 13: 29
        Michael I welcome you!
        It was the case that Edward and I wound up on the subject of a dispute about the state.

        There was a case.
        Wow!
        There is one disagreement here. The "canonical" definition is more or less suitable for the modern state and was formulated in the 50s. XNUMXth century
        Such a definition does not fit the state of the early periods at all.
        Because the state, as a form of government, has developed and evolved over millennia, and such a form as described in the course "Theory of State and Law" was formed only in the XNUMXth century.
        Yours!
        1. +5
          15 July 2023 14: 17
          Such a definition does not fit the state of the early periods at all.
          Because the state, as a form of government, has developed and evolved over millennia, and such a form as described in the course "Theory of State and Law" was formed only in the XNUMXth century.

          Why not recognize it as canonical?
          1. +5
            15 July 2023 15: 01
            Why not recognize it as canonical?

            Because it defines only the states of the period of the late XIX - XX centuries. and is not universal.
            Because it was formulated taking into account the realities of state building in the USSR, which is no longer relevant. laughing
      3. +4
        15 July 2023 13: 56
        Hi Michael! I think any position of the layman or the scientific community on the question of the state structure will be subjective. I, like you, am surprised only by one thing, that modern people from science begin to complicate the simple, making it less accessible. The number of optional features of the state is steadily growing, but this is of no practical importance.
        For example, for me personally, the difference between the closely related concepts of state and country is not fundamental. In a number of foreign scientific schools they are identical. Similarly, for the layman it does not matter how the rebellion differs from the rebellion or both of them from the uprisings or the revolution.
        We have our own "markers" - the Pugachev rebellion, the Decembrist uprising, the Kornilov rebellion and the Great October Revolution. Attempts to correct the established terms are stupid and vicious. For ten years now, we have all been “havahing” the attempts of competitive individuals to rewrite the history of the Tatar-Mongol invasion !!! Yesterday's article about Ivan the Terrible is a vivid example of such hoaxes. Which can’t be called otherwise than “pulling a cat on a globe”.
        But the stone of doubt about the Mongols was laid by scientists who, at the suggestion of the Tatar community in 1936, decided to correct the karma of their “Kazan” colleagues. However, the story with historians (about delaying the emergence of the Old Russian state, also began not an empty place. In short, this is an attempt to wrest the main trump card from the Normanists. “standing on the Ugra.” In his opinion, it was then that the Moscow principality acquired nominal sovereignty.
        However, the position of the scientist found supporters only today. His contemporaries did not want to give him half a thousand years of native history of the fatherland to his research. Yes, and the millennium of Rus' was celebrated the day before, and with the king's father !!!
        Conclusion Mikhail, you voiced - there is no canonical version and never will be !!!
        Better than you wrote - not to say !!!
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 15: 09
          I, like you, am surprised only by one thing, that modern people from science begin to complicate the simple, making it less accessible.

          Vladislav, Mikhail - this is not nothing to do!
          This is how we understand the process of social development more fundamentally.
          Based on such a message, we can say, why do we need to know how metallurgy developed - here is the modern level, for example, they would say this in the 70s of the twentieth century) and period. No, in order to have a result now and make the right decision, we cannot rely only on the current understanding. otherwise, where will the development in metallurgy come from.
          So in the development of the state, without detail, we will not understand anything.
          Let's leave aside pseudoscience, which you are fighting brilliantly!
          hi
        2. +4
          15 July 2023 17: 16
          for the layman it doesn’t matter how the rebellion differs from the rebellion

          Vlad, why not?
          Here I am a layman. But even at my philistine level, I understand that a riot is a spontaneous uprising of a heterogeneous mass of people under the pressure of circumstances that seem catastrophic to them, despite the fact that they can be local and have no analogues on the territory of the whole country. For example, we had this with the installation of garbage bins near new buildings. The inhabitants of the "elite" houses came out and declared a categorical "no!" And we, all the rest, from the Khrushchevs who, walking with the mayor, chose another convenient place, did not find it, and the housing "elite" had to put up with it, the rebellion turned out to be suppressed by the logic of a forced decision.
          wassat )))
          But, let's say, the performance of the Wagnerites is a rebellion, since it had an organizing command link, consisting of like-minded people who developed goal-setting, - a link to which, by force or by agreement, and, in fact, due to official subordination, all those included in " Wagner". Armed, by the way. That is, the uprising of a mass of people already structured according to the principle of subordination.
          Motley, independent of each other, protested against the installation of tanks.
          1. +3
            15 July 2023 17: 50
            Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
            Now it became interesting, according to your classification, the uprising of Spartacus, is it a rebellion or a rebellion?
            1. +5
              15 July 2023 19: 04
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              uprising of Spartacus

              This is an attempt to introduce two clubs into the struggle for hegemony in Russian football. I will keep silent about hockey, SpaM, obviously out of work. laughing
              1. +5
                15 July 2023 19: 41
                Sergey Vladimirovich, once again - happy birthday! And best wishes! love )))
                good drinks hi )))1
                1. +3
                  15 July 2023 22: 01
                  Sergey Vladimirovich, once again - happy birthday! And best wishes!

                  I'm in! Round date!
                  Sergey - happiness to you and your family! drinks
                  1. +3
                    15 July 2023 22: 05
                    Shaw you!!!

                    Forever! Friend Nikolay!
                    1. +3
                      15 July 2023 22: 10
                      Shaw you!!!

                      So you are so happy, Uncle! Family, granddaughter! Health to everyone! drinks
                      You are our main rebel and careless rider! good In this you are unique. And I say this with sincere respect! drinks
                      1. +3
                        15 July 2023 22: 30
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        You are our main rebel and careless rider! In this you are unique. And I say this with sincere respect!

                        Kolka! I love you! Brother!!! bully
                      2. +2
                        15 July 2023 23: 39
                        Live well, Uncle! drinks Happiness to your family!
                      3. +1
                        17 July 2023 20: 23
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        granddaughter

                        You've got it all mixed up again.Daughter.And?Grandchildren.Two?No.Three. bully
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        You are our main rebel and careless rider!

                        I am old.
    4. 0
      18 July 2023 21: 46
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Returning to ours with my sincerely respected Edward (Author) - sheep (dispute about the state).
      From the article.

      That is, the state must have a certain set of features (markers).

      We evict its signs from the term:
      1. The political form of the organization of society in a certain territory. If on the “fingers”, from a legal point of view, two mandatory markers stand out:
      1.1. Form of government: federal or unitary (we leave the rest, like the confederation, out of the brackets - this is a topic for a separate discussion).
      1.2. Form of government: monarchy or republic.
      Moreover, these markers should spread to the territory of the entire state, but the principle of uniformity is not mandatory.
      2. Sovereignty. Optional features will not paint - boring. The most important thing is the independent nature of the implementation of paragraphs 1.1.,1.2. and the presence of force (army). Whether it will be a squad, or a people's militia in the form of militia from hoplites (phalanxes) or no less popular from legionnaires, the question is secondary.
      3. The public nature of power. In short - the open nature of the institutions of power, which will be discussed below and the consent of the population (acceptance) of paragraphs 1.1, 1.2 and 2.
      If you're being sarcastic - "Vaska from the village of Gadyukino, he should know that Petka is in the kingdom."
      4. Apparatus of control and coercion. the term does not reveal the structure or scope of power. From the point of view of jurisprudence, it makes no difference whether it will be 10 censors or children with a retinue or an army of bureaucrats of many thousands. The main thing is its functionality and efficiency.
      5. Recognition of power by the population. Banal agreement with points 1-4. The conjectures of modern historians about the sacred nature of the power of the leader or elder, the link to the economic model or the property nature of ownership - this is a banal complication of the structure ... ..
      Regards, Vlad!
      State = Army и Taxes.
      The army is needed to collect the Tax, the tax is needed to maintain the Army.
      fellow
  10. +6
    15 July 2023 12: 46
    Yes... That's how you live and you don't know that pauperism comes from the word pauper (lat. poor) - this is a state of a person in which there is no way to maintain one's existence.
    I have seen enough of these videos for a month. India, Egypt, other Arab countries, Latin America and -- USA! Monstrous! Either slums, or endless rows of tents and rookeries of the homeless, finally descended, drug addicts. A total of one billion people on Earth.
    A shabby white woman, putting a cosmetic bag on a stroller, paints her lips, lying next to a blanket on which she slept, some miserable belongings. Smiles wrinkled face: "Everything is OK!" Volunteers will come, feed, the ancient custom of distributing "bread and meat."
    And skyscrapers rise behind the brick wall...
    1. +5
      15 July 2023 13: 37
      And skyscrapers rise behind the brick wall...

      Hello Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
      So even in the Soviet school everyone taught:
      If you look around Havana in an instant - a paradise-country, a country that is necessary. Flamingos stand on a leg under a palm tree. Colario blooms all over Vedado. In Havana, everything is clearly demarcated: whites have dollars, blacks do not.
      1. +4
        15 July 2023 13: 58
        Good afternoon, Edward!
        If you take a look at a couple of millennia, it turns out that only technologies have changed, human aspirations have not. Roman law, Greek democracy were fastened to an excessive number of people and gave a deplorable result.
        Especially the democracy developed on Greek watercraft. You will not agree, and without at least one sailor it is impossible to sail. And we are all dry.
    2. +5
      15 July 2023 14: 14
      I do not agree that patronage and volunteer movement are related to the canonical custom of Rome "bread and circuses." For the Roman Republic, it was primarily a "tool" for solving political issues based on sacred customs. The closest we have is a trizna (commemoration) for the deceased. In Rome, gladiator fights and the distribution of bread were originally held in honor of the memory of deceased parents. Much later - this custom began to accompany another tradition - the triumph. Its political context also arose, but it became social only under the emperors. However, most of the ancient sacrifices ended with the free distribution of animal meat to those in need. In this way (sacrifice) pumped many "good" deeds from the wedding to a successful trade deal. So the reason to “wash” is from the distant pagan past of our ancestors. Apparently the transformed custom of washing a newborn!
      By the way, progressive emperors from Augustus to Tron preferred more progressive ways to reduce social tensions. From the construction of public latrines and thermal baths to the reduction and abolition of taxes!!!
      1. +6
        15 July 2023 15: 01
        progressive emperors from Augustus to Tron preferred more progressive ways of reducing social tensions.

        Well - it was also under the Republic. The Romans developed a relatively effective method - if you want to achieve a bread position, first do something for the people. Share your wealth, prove that you are not greedy and think not only about your pocket. Otherwise - fuck you, not the position. Again - it was impossible to go along the road of honor without serving in the legions and without going through it from the very beginning. From the bottom, no matter what origin and wealth you are.

        Imagine if we had the same!! If you want to be a minister, build at your own expense, say, a highway from Kazan to Nizhny. Senator - build a public library. As a district deputy - at least get a toilet for people in your district! As far as I'm concerned, it wasn't a bad idea.

        Didn't serve in the army - you don't have to be an official. You were not the secretary of the state civil service of the Russian Federation of the 3rd class - you will never become a real state adviser of the Russian Federation of the 1st class ....
        1. +6
          15 July 2023 16: 20
          Didn't serve in the army - you don't have to be an official. You were not the secretary of the state civil service of the Russian Federation of the 3rd class - you will never become a real state adviser of the Russian Federation of the 1st class ....

          I support with all my paws and tail! True, I'm afraid that this is at the level of fantasy, although as a point of an election campaign it will sound strong!
          The last one who tried to force the privileged class to serve from the bottom was Peter the Great! This duty of the nobles was canceled only by Catherine II. Then "Liberty of the Nobility" took root and away we go. Only Peter III did good for the peasants, who canceled the assignment of peasants to factories. True, after death, everything returned to normal! It is not surprising that Emelyan Pugachev was supported by all the ascribed peasants of the Ural factories !!!
          1. +3
            15 July 2023 18: 06
            Quote: paul3390 (Paul): Didn't serve in the army - you don't have to be an official. You were not the secretary of the state civil service of the Russian Federation of the 3rd class - you will never become a real state adviser of the Russian Federation of the 1st class ....

            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka (Vladislav):
            I support with all my paws and tail! True, I'm afraid that this is at the level of fantasy, although as a point of an election campaign it will sound strong!
            1. +4
              15 July 2023 18: 49
              I apologize - I did not meet the time frame - I did not have time to finish.
              And that service in the army is already an indulgence from future abuses? And what about those who, for some reason, did not serve, ts, those who did not pay their debt to the Motherland in military service - university graduates, people with disabilities, women? They that career growth, and bureaucracy closed? You can pay your debt to the Motherland not only in the Army, but also at a plant, factory, construction site, design bureau, on theater stages, but everywhere!
              I think that the main thing for a candidate for career growth and service in state structures should always be only professional and moral compliance, and naturally the absence of convictions and offenses - civil, criminal, credit and tax. And that's it!!! Regardless of gender and nationality.
              1. +4
                15 July 2023 22: 30
                Quote: Richard
                I apologize - I did not meet the time frame - I did not have time to finish.

                And that service in the army is already an indulgence from future abuses? And what about those who, for some reason, did not serve, ts, those who did not pay their debt to the Motherland in military service - university graduates, people with disabilities, women? They that career growth, and bureaucracy closed? You can pay your debt to the Motherland not only in the Army, but also at a plant, factory, construction site, design bureau, on theater stages, but everywhere!
                I think that the main thing for a candidate for career growth and service in state structures should always be only professional and moral compliance, and naturally the absence of convictions and offenses - civil, criminal, credit and tax. And that's it!!! Regardless of gender and nationality.

                Dmitry, the question is different.
                Citizenship is not only rights, but also obligations.
                The apparatus of coercion (executive, legislative and judicial branches of government, as well as the municipal service) is, first of all, responsibility, which implies that the candidate has certain moral qualities. Alas, the view from the inside is a problem with this. There are no social elevators in the civil service, which forms the caste of the bureaucracy. Therefore, restrictions are essential.
                By the way, at the municipal level it is necessary to develop the election of officials. Moreover, by direct voting, and not through various deputies.
                To be honest, I would make a number of positions in law enforcement agencies, justices of the peace and prosecutors elective. I am sure that the district policeman, who is chosen by the population, will think twice about how he feels about the service.
                1. +1
                  16 July 2023 13: 27
                  it is necessary to develop the election of officials

                  As for me, the question is not so much in the election, but in the possibility of recalling those who messed up. Which nonecha is missing as a class, unlike the USSR.
      2. +5
        15 July 2023 19: 01
        every act of volunteers is an official crime of a specific name-official, personally responsible for what the volunteers did instead of him. Where is the inevitability of punishment for improper performance of one's official duties? That's when it will be - the efficiency of the administrative system will come in order
    3. +3
      15 July 2023 22: 10
      Quote: depressant
      meat."
      And skyscrapers rise behind the brick wall

      So after all .... behind the skyscrapers? A brick wall. No? Yes, they all went ....
    4. +3
      15 July 2023 22: 35
      Quote: depressant
      And skyscrapers rise behind the brick wall...

      Oh, it’s not evening, it’s not evening. Oh, yes ....
      Sorry, I'm drunk.
      1. +2
        16 July 2023 00: 13
        Sorry, I'm drunk.

        God himself commanded the birthday boy.

        Happy birthday, Seryozha! drinks
        1. +2
          17 July 2023 21: 10
          Quote: Richard
          Happy birthday, Seryozha!

          Thank you Dima! Still ... in some way ... celebrating! bully But! I was at the MFC today to get the notorious pre-pensioner card. Benefits, benefits, benefits. bully
    5. +2
      15 July 2023 22: 42
      Quote: depressant
      A shabby white woman, putting a cosmetic bag on a stroller, paints her lips, lying next to a blanket on which she slept, some miserable belongings.

      And here and raaaz! Well done-Kyrgyz is coming up! And on you. A strong interethnic family, eh?
  11. +6
    15 July 2023 13: 23
    Then Gaius Julius came out, and the "republic" finally came to an end. And then, Octavian put an end to the "I".
    1. +4
      15 July 2023 13: 31
      Quote: bandabas
      Octavian put an end to the "I".

      He put it, becoming the first emperor and giving himself the nickname "August", which means "divine". If I'm not mistaken.
      1. +3
        15 July 2023 14: 44
        Yes Yes. You're right. That's exactly what I meant. hi
      2. +3
        15 July 2023 19: 21
        Octavian Augustus

        Gaius Octavius ​​Furinus, as he was called at birth, was the great-nephew of Gaius Julius Caesar. In 44 BC. e. was adopted by him and received the name - Gaius Julius Caesar Octavian
        rice. Principal heirs of Gaius Julius Caesar

    2. +4
      15 July 2023 13: 31
      Why did it happen? All republican institutions and magistracies continued to exist, moreover, the foundations of the princeps' power were purely republican ..

      For example, what form of power do we have in the Russian Federation now? what wink laughing
      1. +4
        15 July 2023 13: 40
        They existed, but, as far as I remember, they did not play a special role.
      2. +4
        15 July 2023 14: 50
        On paper, a lot of things existed and still exist. And the principle remains the same - "rob the loot" in your pocket. Figuratively, "In the circle of friends, e ... do not click."
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 15: 06
          Not really. Even under the Principate, the occupation of the state magistracy also meant some kind of social activity at one's own expense. So - the loot still had to be shared .. Avon Caesar - got into wild debts in order to be able to achieve what he wanted.
          1. +4
            15 July 2023 15: 33
            More than 2000 years have passed. But, Caesar, unlike Sulla and Marius, did not fuss and tinker with the "shitocracy". Crossed the Rubicon. And as he loosened the nuts, he immediately paid the price.
      3. +9
        15 July 2023 15: 09
        For example, what form of power do we have in the Russian Federation now?
        To whom a donut, to whom a donut hole, that's what a federal democratic republic is. laughing
        1. +4
          15 July 2023 15: 22
          To put it mildly, window dressing. At all levels. "The fish rots from the head".
        2. +3
          15 July 2023 17: 01
          It's nice to meet an educated person these days. hi
      4. +1
        17 July 2023 21: 12
        Quote: paul3390
        For example, what form of power do we have in the Russian Federation now?

        The power of the friends of the one whose name cannot be spoken.
  12. +6
    15 July 2023 15: 40
    We are waiting for July 18, when once again the hydrant will surrender the country.
  13. +2
    15 July 2023 19: 49
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Hello, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
    Now it became interesting, according to your classification, the uprising of Spartacus, is it a rebellion or a rebellion?

    Well, good health to you, Anton!
    The uprising of Spartacus is a rebellion of a social group. And because of the dangerous consequences and public outcry - a rebellion. The combination of these two incarnations, as well as taking into account the tragedy that took place, is an uprising. When they fight not for life, but to the death. Pathos.
    1. +3
      15 July 2023 20: 46
      The uprising of Spartacus is a rebellion of a social group.

      In the story of Spartacus, there are much more ambiguities than clear data. There is a strong suspicion that this was by no means a banal uprising of slaves led by gladiators .. Yes, and Spartacus himself is not a fact that Spartacus, not a fact that he is a Thracian, not a fact that he is just a gladiator ..
  14. +2
    15 July 2023 22: 41
    Marius, Sulla, Caesar - it was the buildup of the system, how you can manage alone within the framework of SPQR, of course, for the good of the people, but what else.
    But Octavian, having defeated his enemies (Rome, of course, whose else?) took a modest but decisive step - he became a living God, the Romans were finally lucky! Before that, only the Hellenes were so lucky - and even more than 250 years ago, they say they had a living God, they called Alexander.
    And here the Romans have their living God with them! No, Jupiter and Juno, Mercury is also respected there, Bacchus, where would it be without him ...
    But here is your own, close and dear God, that's where happiness has come!
    And the slogan is ready: "Without Augustus, there is no Rome!" (I keep thinking, where did Volodin plagiarize?).
    And who will laugh, or there, not believe - spray the world into molecules, even if they have monotheism - this is not an excuse and a swing of a bireme! Let them wander, think for a couple of thousand years about their behavior.
    True, in the PMC legions they began to get involved in the enemy religion. No, not with the pants of German barbarians dyed with blue dye, but with Parthian Zoroastrianism, and then in general, all monotheism, many secretly succumbed, like those eccentrics who paint fish on the walls of caves.
  15. +1
    16 July 2023 09: 55
    The road of historical development led Rome from "democracy" and a republic to an empire in the form of a military dictatorship.

    After such jambs, you ask yourself the question: does the author understand the material? Since there is a substitution of ancient and modern concepts - for example, the imerium and the republic.
  16. +1
    16 July 2023 19: 30
    Like in the series "Rome": "when Sulla entered the city, houses could be painted with blood"
  17. 0
    18 July 2023 12: 18
    1 It is interesting that Sulla went
    to war with Mithridates through Thessaly. And this, as you know, is the place from where the exodus of the Heraclides, that is, the Dorians and Achaeans, took place. Therefore, on the one hand, this is a Greco-Roman alliance. And on the other hand, the tribal union of the peoples of Italy.
    Then the picture is completely different.
    And this story begins with the Sicilian wars.
    2. The term Tyrant is also interesting. While this story has a chronology
    3. It is interesting that Gaius Marius did not know Greek and fled to Africa. The peoples of Italy put forward the first ultimatum - the rejection of Latin. This speaks volumes. The inhabitants of Italy was a union of tribes.
    4. The mythological factor is interesting as a representation of the world in Italy and Greece. It can be stated that the situation that arose is the result of the emergence of hybrid Temples. The Latins took knowledge from the Etruscans, the Lydians, the Greeks, the Punians, and then the Jews.
    5. Another interesting fact is the appearance of the 12 zodiac circle. Which overshadowed all other ideas about space among other peoples of the Mediterranean.
    The people of Mushka revered Orion. The constellation of Orion was known both in Scandinavia and in Asia.
    Antikythera was also found
    Mechanism. It was created on about. Rhodes. It can be assumed that it was made by the Karians.