Stumbling Block - Baikonur

224


According to the head of the national space agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Talgat Musabaev, made as part of his speech before the country's parliament, it is planned to conclude a new agreement between Russia and Kazakhstan, according to which Baikonur will be transferred to the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan. Thus, at present, negotiations are underway between the two parties on a phased departure from the terms of the lease agreement signed in 1994. At the same time, negotiations are underway to create a new, “comprehensive” treaty.

According to Musabaev, the solution of this task was entrusted to him by the head of state Nursultan Nazarbayev after his meeting with his Russian counterpart V. Putin. Musabayev emphasized that the departure from the conditions of the arena will be phased. Termination of the lease is not immediately possible, since this can cause a real disaster, the official said.

At the same time, no more or less specific terms for changing the status of the cosmodrome were named. According to representatives of Kazakhstan, this is explained by the fact that the Russian side stubbornly does not want to come to a common solution of this issue.

The head of Kazkosmos noted that the first stage of negotiations on the termination of the lease is connected with the withdrawal of launch sites for Zenit from the jurisdiction of Russia. In fact, this is a separate cosmodrome, which is located on the “right flank” of Baikonur. And if the Kazakhs manage to withdraw it from the lease and become full participants, it will be a big step forward for Kazakhstan, said Musabayev. This project is designed for launches of Angara and Zenit missiles. Using it, Kazakhstan made every effort to keep Russia with itself, while maintaining a monopoly on space transits.

However, according to Andrei Grozin, an expert at the Institute of CIS Countries, the Kazakhs are not at all interested in “expelling” Russia from Baikonur. And all these statements are aimed at other purposes. According to him, the Kazakh side has a great interest in the development of the right wing of the cosmodrome. Kazakhstan wants to receive them in full ownership in order to get the opportunity to make big money not only on Russian leases, but also on joint launches with Ukrainians and Europeans. However, according to most experts, such behavior of the Kazakhs, on the contrary, can lead to actions of the Russian side that are completely unexpected for Astana, in particular, to speed up the construction of their space sites.

Recall that when the Kazakh side first made such statements on 10 in December of last year, Russian experts and the leadership of the cosmodrome received them with great caution.

Then the official Kazakh authorities in the person of Foreign Minister Yerlan Idrisov were quick to declare that there would be no break in relations between Kazakhstan and Russia, since this is naive and unwise. At the same time, Idrisov made an assumption that journalists are to blame for everything, who misunderstood the meaning of what Musabaev said. However, a serious scandal broke out in the press.

Then a statement was made that a special commission would be set up in the near future, which would include representatives of two states: from the Kazakh side, it would be headed by Deputy Prime Minister Kairat Kelimbetov, and from Russia, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, who will have to decide the fate of the spaceport. The creation of a commission of this kind was stipulated by the terms of the agreement that the states signed in 1994, but three years later this commission transferred the functions of the subcommission. Therefore, at present, all issues are discussed at the level of the subcommittee on the spaceport, which is part of the structure of the Russian-Kazakh cooperation commission. December 16 The intergovernmental commission of Kazakhstan and Russia on Baikonur was established, and the Russian government, which until then had not responded to the statements of its Kazakh colleagues, finally sent an official note, demanding an explanation regarding the sharp statements made by the head of Kazkosmos Musabayev Russian jurisdiction of the Baikonur cosmodrome.

At the same time, it can be said that the Kazakhs do not intend to retreat. This is evidenced, in particular, by the visit of Kazakh Prime Minister Serik Akhmetov to Baikonur, which, in turn, proves that decisions will be made at the highest level.

It should be noted that reports about the possible withdrawal of the Baikonur cosmodrome from under Russian jurisdiction appeared in November. The initiator of this issue was precisely the Kazakh government. However, the specialists themselves who work at the cosmodrome, with great distrust, refer to the prospect of becoming subordinate to Kazakhstan. They are confident that the termination of the Russian lease of the cosmodrome will lead to the disbandment of the Russian administrative and security agencies ensuring the operation of the cosmodrome. As a result, the Russians will begin to massively leave the country. During the creation of the Kazakh authorities, there will be a shortage of personnel, which is now quite acutely felt at the cosmodrome, because there are not enough engineering personnel who would have enough experience to work on space technology.

It must be said that problems in the process of cooperation between the two countries began several years ago, more precisely, in 2011, when one of the deputies of the Kazakh parliament, Amangeldy Momyshev, demanded an increase in Russia's rent for using the Baikonur cosmodrome to a billion dollars. In response, to such statements, the then head of Roskosmos, Anatoly Perminov, said it was necessary to incorporate the complex after the launch of the new cosmodrome. He also noted that in the event of a distribution of shares, the Russian side may have about 70 percent of the shares, while the Kazakhs will get only 30 percent.

History It was continued in the spring of 2012 of the year, when the Kazakh side did not allow Russia to use its territories as an area of ​​the fall of the first stage of the “Union” Thus, the Kazakhs have put in jeopardy the fulfillment of three space launches scheduled for this summer. The Kazakh government tried as long as possible to resolve the issue of the use by the Russian side of the 120 area, located in the north of the state, without issuing a special permit.

The ban of the Kazakh authorities entailed sending to orbit three Russian and four foreign satellites: the space meteorological apparatus MetOp-B, the Russian satellites MKA-PN1 and Kanopus-V, and the Russian Resurs-P (the launches were planned respectively on 23 May, June 7 and August 2012 of the year). All in all, Russia was planning to launch 36 travelers into orbit, thus breaking the record for the number of space launches.

Recall, the Baikonur cosmodrome, according to the 1994 contract of the year, is leased by the Russian Federation to the 2050 year. Currently, there are no comments from the Russian side about the statements of the Kazakhs. At the same time, the Russian Federation this year has begun the construction of a new cosmodrome in the Amur Region - the Vostochny. The first flight from it is already scheduled for 2015 year, at the same time, it will be fully commissioned only in 2020 year. It is assumed that a launch complex for the Angara - launch vehicles of a new generation will be built at Vostochny. It was originally planned that the launch pad would be located at the Baikonur cosmodrome, since this project was intended to be joint for the two states. Therefore, according to some experts, such harsh statements by representatives of Kazakhstan are aimed at forcing the Russian side to return to the original plan, and at the same time try to increase the rent for using Baikonur.

On the other hand, if you believe the statements of representatives of Roskosmos, the cosmodrome can survive no more than ten years, which is primarily due to the high level of moral and technological equipment wear. In such conditions it is much easier to build a new complex than to spend huge amounts of money on upgrading the old one. In addition, according to the Russian side, there is no need to pay for the rental of Vostochny. And given that Baikonur annually costs the Russians 315 million dollars, of which only 115 million is rented, and the remaining 200 million is spent on maintaining the complex’s vital activity and operational condition of the facilities, it becomes obvious that Vostochny is indeed more acceptable for Russia option.

By the way, the construction of a new cosmodrome is not profitable for Kazakhs, because about a third of the population of Baikonur are Russian specialists in the rocket and space field, as well as their family members. And if the cosmodrome goes under the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan, they will leave, and there will not be enough Kazakhstan’s own specialists (engineers, designers and technicians) to ensure the normal operation of Baikonur.

Opinions of experts regarding the actions of Kazakhstan related to the Baikonur cosmodrome differ slightly. Thus, according to Igor Markin, an analyst at Investkafe agency, there may be several explanations for these actions: either the Kazakhs plan to use the site for their own purposes, since there are some projects, or is this a clean policy - the desire to achieve their interests in the future? showing himself a strong opponent.

According to Natalia Kharitonova, coordinator of the United Eurasian Expert Network, this position of Astana may be the cause of some political disagreements between the two states that arose after the Russian government slightly changed its foreign policy strategy regarding the post-Soviet republics.

At the same time, all experts agree that if Kazakhstan decides to declare itself as an independent space power, great difficulties await it, because the country does not have its own specialists in this industry, and quickly retrain and pick up people will not work. Thus, in any case, you will have to seek help from Russia ...

Meanwhile, events continue to evolve. In 2013, Kazakhstan allowed Russia to conduct only 12 launches of Proton-M launch vehicles, referring to environmental safety. Russia, as you know, requested permission to launch 17 missiles.

As a result, in many print publications, information appeared that Moscow may well require Astana to reconsider the terms of the spaceport lease. At the same time, the number of launches approved by the Kazakhs turned out to be less than what was previously agreed upon last year. Therefore, in response to such actions, Russia can reduce the amount of funds that are annually paid to Kazakhstan as a lease. Thus, the amount of rent will directly depend on the performance of its functions by the Baikonur cosmodrome.

According to a source related to the Russian rocket and space industry, the Russian side went to meet its Kazakh colleagues and gradually reduces the amount of harmful emissions from launching rockets. As for the Proton missiles, they have been significantly upgraded. In addition, the launch of PC-20 and Cyclone-2 heptyl missiles was completely halted.

At the same time, the source claims that it is impossible to accomplish the scheduled launches at any other cosmodrome, in particular, in Plesetsk, because there is no launch facility for this type of missile.

At the same time, the same source noted that if the situation is not resolved in the near future, such actions by Kazakhstan can inflict enormous harm on Russia and deprive it of its authority as a space state, because the reduction in this case will affect commercial launches. Start-up Russian operators will be forced to pay large penalties for not being able to fulfill their international obligations, and there they are not far from bankruptcy.

The source also noted that, apparently, in the near future the parties will not be able to agree, and tensions in the space relations of the two states will only increase.

Meanwhile, expert opinions on this issue also differ. According to some, the reduction of launches is a purely political step of Kazakhstan, which thus wants to emphasize its importance and significance, and in the end agreements will be reached on 17 launches.

Another part of the experts agrees that Russia can even refuse to launch launches at the Baikonur cosmodrome due to the intractability of the Kazakhs. So, in particular, according to the corresponding member of the Academy of Cosmonautics of Russia Yuri Karash, such decisions are to the detriment of the national interests not only of Russia, but to a greater extent of Kazakhstan itself. In the event that Moscow abandons Baikonur, Kazakhstan will no longer be considered a respected space power, and Astana is absolutely not needed. As for Russia, it will have minor difficulties, because the country has sufficient rocket and space potential, the construction of a new cosmodrome is underway. Thus, the missile program of Russia will not lose much.

The Kazakh side, represented by the head of Kazkosmos, Talgat Musabaev, at the end of 2012 of the year, made a statement that in the future it would also coordinate a mechanism for coordinating launches as a lever of pressure on Moscow. At the same time, the government of Kazakhstan assured the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs that there are no obstacles to further successful cooperation between the two states in the space industry. But if we analyze the constantly emerging disagreements around the Baikonur cosmodrome, we get a completely different impression ...


Materials used:
http://www.newsru.com/world/10dec2012/baikonur.html
http://www.kp.ru/daily/25998.5/2926577/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_01_09/100484980/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_01_18/Moskva-mozhet-peresmotret-uslovija-arendi-Bajkonura/
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/news/4378/
224 comments
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  1. +8
    22 January 2013 08: 40
    According to the statement of the head of the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan Taltab Musabaev, which he made as part of his speech to the country's parliament, it is planned to conclude a new agreement between Russia and Kazakhstan, according to which Baikonur will be transferred to the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan. So, negotiations are being held between the two sides on a phased departure from the terms of the lease signed in 1994. -That is why we need the Vostochny Cosmodrome as quickly as possible!
    1. +12
      22 January 2013 09: 03
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      according to which Baikonur will be transferred under the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan.

      Then Kazakhstan will put up a rent in the amount of $ 1 billion, in fact, a repeat of Gabala ...
      1. +8
        22 January 2013 10: 23
        Quote: Tersky
        Then Kazakhstan will put up a rent in the amount of $ 1 billion, in fact, a repeat of Gabala ...

        Hence the conclusion: all somehow important state-owned objects must be on their territory in order not to be dependent on friends. The same states should only stumble a little and the heaps of mongrels inviting Amerov’s military bases with gingerbread cookies to their territory will begin to smash them (as already happens in some places).
      2. +7
        22 January 2013 10: 23
        such behavior of the Kazakhs, on the contrary, can lead to actions of the Russian side that are completely unexpected for Astana, in particular, to speeding up the construction of their space platforms.

        It is high time to build our facilities on our territory. Enough to depend on independents, especially in such an important strategic industry. In today's situation in the geopolitical arena with the naked eye, it is clear that Russia has only two allies - the army and navy. Everything else is ostentatious hypocrisy.
        1. +17
          22 January 2013 10: 31
          As an example, problems with gas transit through Ukraine ...
          Built the north stream, build the south.
          Ukrainian oligarchs sucked horseradish ...
          Everything goes to the fact that it’s time for Kazakhs to train their mouths.
          Cosmodromes are being built at an accelerated pace.
          It is a pity of course that such a site is convenient and built with blood, and then the entire USSR will be virtually destroyed. But this is already a question of the collapse of the USSR.
      3. +1
        22 January 2013 13: 10
        It is not at all necessary that development will follow the Azerbaijani scenario.
        The desire of the "Kazakh friends" to "make money" on space launches is quite understandable, but one needs to invest in the business. And this, most likely, is not.
        Otherwise, we would have been posted by our "colleagues" from Kazakhstan with photographs, videos about idle launch complexes built right out of the box. hi
        1. 0
          23 January 2013 16: 23
          The swearing was lightened lower, to the very "tomato". And in fact, they wave sabers from scratch!
          To launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, the Baiterek space rocket complex (KRK) is being created, the first launch of which was scheduled for 2012, but then postponed to 2014. In 2008, several existing sites on Baikonur were considered as a possible base for the Baiterek missile complex. According to the latest data [15], it is possible to use the platform 250 (UKSS, Universal complex stand-start of the RN Energia), from which launches were made under the Energy-Buran program with the corresponding refinement of existing equipment. The site has not yet been finally selected and no work is underway on its equipment. The issue of participation in financing by the Republic of Kazakhstan has not been resolved either.
          Currently, the issue of equal financial participation of the Kazakh and Russian parties in the project for the creation of the Baiterek KRK is being worked out. As the contribution of the Russian side, financing by the Russian side of the development of design documentation and the creation of the constituent parts (elements) of the complex, which in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation cannot be transferred for operation to the Kazakh side, is considered. this information is taken from http://kazcosmos.gov.kz/ru/2012/nashi-proekty/sozdanie-kosmicheskogo-raketnogo-k

          ompleksa- “bajterek” -na-kosmodrome- “bajkonur .html
  2. Skorba
    +6
    22 January 2013 09: 05
    greed fraer ruined
  3. aray
    +7
    22 January 2013 09: 14
    The opinion is expressed by Alexander Baurov, manager for coordination of scientific projects of the space cluster of the Skolkovo Foundation

    As I understand it, the party for “arm twisting” and blackmail has again prevailed in Kazakhstan, but I don’t think that this will seriously affect Russian-Kazakh relations, because there are many other economic topics and Baikonur can be linked to something other what Kazakh colleagues are interested in.

    A super catastrophe or the fact that tomorrow everyone will be thrown from Baikonur is not expected. How can Russia react to this? We have an approved program for the development of spaceports, under which the Vostochny spaceport is being built in the Amur Region, next to the former military facility, and its development for heavy launch vehicles is an adequate response.

    Another thing is that the prospects for spaceports are unclear. Will Vostochny be able to fully compensate Baikonur - I’m personally not sure. I am not a ballist, I do not know the exact profits and benefits of launches in the northern hemispheres. This must be clarified. But the main thing is that the launch into orbit will take place over the ocean, which significantly reduces the number of problems associated with the shooting of the first stage and pollution.

    This is a common economic situation, when some people try to make extra money in difficult times for the Russian space industry. As a result, this can cause more problems for the same people. Now Russia and Kazakhstan have good relations, and raising this issue now is not very beautiful from the Kazakh side. Moreover, there is practically nothing to convict Russia of.

    I don’t think it will be a long story, I think it’s a short speculation with intra-Kazakh implications.

    ______________________________________________

    This is exactly a repetition of the story with the radar station in Gabala. And it all began after a visit to Nazarbayev in Istanbul, where he made his crazy speech, about the unification of 200 million Turks and the creation of the great Turan. And the further, the worse. Therefore, I completely I agree with the post above, about the Vostochny cosmodrome, as well as with the Voronezh radar station in Armavir.
    And then to see the old fox, in his old age he completely fell off the oak tree. He recalled himself a new Ataturk.
    1. +3
      22 January 2013 10: 26
      This is a common economic situation, when some people try to make extra money in difficult times for the Russian space industry.

      I hope that apart from hemorrhoids, they will not gain anything for themselves.
      1. Shulz-1955
        0
        23 January 2013 05: 11
        Well, they pursue their own profit. And we have a problem. The closer to the equator the spaceport, the cheaper the rocket launches. Not every rocket with the right weight will fly away from Plesetsk
        1. 0
          23 January 2013 16: 56
          proximity to the equator is needed only to launch rockets into certain orbits (Geostationary Orbit (GSO) - a circular orbit located above the Earth's equator), from Plesetsk missiles are launched onto others.
          From the 1970s to the beginning of the 1990s, the Plesetsk cosmodrome held the world leadership in the number of rocket launches into space, from 1957 to 1993, 1372 launches were carried out from here, while from Baikonur in 2nd place only 917 were launched.
    2. Yarbay
      -6
      22 January 2013 12: 39
      Quote: Aray
      This is exactly a repetition of the story with the radar station in Gabala. And it all began after a visit to Nazarbayev in Istanbul, where he made his crazy speech, about the unification of 200 million Turks and the creation of the great Turan. And the further, the worse. Therefore, I completely I agree with the post above, about the Vostochny cosmodrome, as well as with the Voronezh radar station in Armavir.
      And then to see the old fox, in his old age he completely fell off the oak tree. He recalled himself a new Ataturk.

      and does the representative of Armenia say that?
      Are you the most faithful allies ??)))))))))
      start with yourself criticism and outrage))))))))

      Secretary of the National Security Council of Armenia: in 2012, cooperation with NATO was successful


      Under the chairmanship of the Secretary of the National Security Council of Armenia, Artur Baghdasaryan, the 19th meeting of the interagency commission for coordination of the events stipulated by the Armenia-NATO Individual Partnership Action Program was held on January 8. As the NSS press service told REGNUM news agency, speaking at the meeting, Baghdasaryan, in particular, stated that in 2012 Armenia-NATO cooperation was successful: 120 of the planned 152 actions were fully implemented.
      “Our interaction with NATO covers the spheres of security, emergencies, police, national security services, and all the measures envisaged by the program have been fully implemented by these agencies. I would especially like to note the fact that NATO gave a positive assessment of the strategic review of work in the security forces and the transformations carried out in them meet international criteria, "the secretary of the NSS of Armenia said.

      Details: http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1614962.html#ixzz2IQyap13N
      1. +2
        22 January 2013 12: 58
        Quote: Yarbay
        Baghdasaryan, in particular, stated that in 2012 Armenia-NATO cooperation was successful: 120 of the planned 152 actions were fully implemented.

        Not talking about frictions?
        1. Yarbay
          +1
          22 January 2013 13: 52
          Quote: Papakiko
          Not talking about frictions?


          about frictions?)))))))))))
          and when the Americans were introduced to the S-300, were there frictions too?))))))
          what then did the MIDRF and MO resent ??
      2. aray
        +1
        22 January 2013 12: 59
        Quote: Yarbay
        Are you the most faithful allies ??)))))))))

        The fact that the Russian troops are in Armenia and we gave them our territory for the bases, then you, Azerbaijanis, need God to pray for this. By the way, the Georgians too. This is beneficial to you. Oh, how beneficial.
        The South Caucasus is the most vulnerable place in Russia. It can be said that it’s a belly. Having left Russia Armenia, you will get so many problems in the North Caucasus that my mother does not grieve.
        So, the presence of Russian troops on the Caucasian frontier is simply vital for Russia. Otherwise, it threatens the collapse of Russia itself (without exaggeration).
        Or maybe you ask a question - what benefit do you and Georgians get from this?
        I’ll answer right away. Having won out Russian troops from your territory, you will get so many problems that you’ll just drown in your own blood. Such revolutions will begin in you and the Georgians in all the colors of the rainbow ...
        Especially you, Azerbaijanis. Do not forget about the problems of Lezgins and Talysh (who already made their way to the UN with complaints). Believe me, Russia will do everything, create any problems, to return to the Caucasus. To do this, it will go to all but the Caucasus gate, it will not open. Remember this.
        So, while the Russians are with us, you sleep peacefully. And I say again, pray to God that the Armenians do not change their minds.

        And what exercises Armenia conducts with NATO, then this does not concern you or Russia.
        1. Yarbay
          +1
          22 January 2013 13: 08
          Quote: Aray
          The fact that the Russian troops are in Armenia and we gave them our territory for the bases, then you, Azerbaijanis, need God to pray for this. By the way, the Georgians too. This is beneficial to you. Oh, how beneficial.

          why don’t you pray !!
          You call Russia in your forums Srash, Russian pigs and subhuman?))))))))))
          Quote: Aray
          So while the Russians are with us, then sleep soundly

          As long as the Russians you have, you sleep peacefully and be at least a little bit thank you !!
          Cheap sneak do not pop here, there are no two-faced you in the world!
          1. aray
            0
            22 January 2013 13: 15
            Quote: Yarbay
            You call Russia in your forums Srash, Russian pigs and subhuman?))))))))))

            This is a cheap provocation. I will not even answer this baseness. I see that you are supposedly of the rank of Lieutenant General ... well, well, you are not even a young man in the brain (((
            Quote: Yarbay
            As long as the Russians you have, you sleep peacefully and be at least a little bit thank you !!
            Cheap sneak do not pop here, there are no two-faced you in the world!

            We are calm. In order to disperse you, we don’t need Russians. Believe me. If Aliyev told you to say so on the forums, appointing the reason for all Russia's troubles, this does not mean that I should trust this boss, your master ((
            Chatterbox!
            1. Yarbay
              0
              22 January 2013 13: 32
              Quote: Aray
              This is a cheap provocation. I will not even answer this baseness (


              cheap provocation is your behavior here !!
              Accusing the Kazakhs of all mortal sins, build yourself faithful to Russia!

              http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=43272

              http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=14923&st=3800&p=909007&#entry90900




              7
              Again, Russian troops are already in Artsakh ?? it wasn’t enough for Artsakh to pay for stinky asses of Russians like Armenia does
              http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=41969&st=1250&p=926813&#entry92681




              3

              Russians are a pig for Hitler, a subhuman for a European, scum for an American, why should this Russian be something special for an Armenian?
              http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=41969&st=1550&p=934158&#entry93415




              8
              How can one hate an * ally * to write this?
              and not one Armenian was not indignant that you write fellow tribesmen, the Russians saved our ass!
              Quote: Aray
              We are calm. To disperse you, we do not need Russians

              Without Russians, you would be gypsy in Africa now !!
              These are you ungrateful !!
              1. aray
                0
                22 January 2013 13: 53
                Quote: Yarbay
                Accusing the Kazakhs of all mortal sins, build yourself faithful to Russia!

                Give a quote where I blame the Kazakhs for all mortal sins.
                Quote: Yarbay
                Again, Russian troops are already in Artsakh ?? it wasn’t enough for Artsakh to pay for stinky asses of Russians like Armenia does

                Quote: Yarbay

                Russians are a pig for Hitler, a subhuman for a European, scum for an American, why should this Russian be something special for an Armenian?

                Quote: Yarbay
                How can one hate an * ally * to write this?
                and not one Armenian was not indignant that you write fellow tribesmen, the Russians saved our ass!

                Why should I be responsible for a bunch of uneducated seniors? They reflect the opinion of an entire nation? And Russian nationalists write not very good things about me. Even nicer than what they write on this forum.
                And in general, why did you bring these quotes here? What does this mean? Do you consider yourself a man? Know that you are so kind to Russian here, write such kind words that I just doubt that you are an Azeri-Turkish. I’m simply surprised at other forums , your users delight in videos where they cut Russian soldiers in the Caucasus and write such enthusiastic posts ...
                Are you really Azerbaijani?))
                And in general, you are an officer by rank. How does your officer Honor allow you to engage in denunciations?
                1. Yarbay
                  -2
                  22 January 2013 14: 05
                  Quote: Aray
                  Why should I be responsible for a bunch of uneducated senility? Do they reflect the opinion of an entire nation?

                  If they are senile, then why no one answered them and does not answer that the Russians saved our asses, do not dare say so!
                  General silence suggests that you are two-faced!
                  Quote: Aray
                  And Russian nationalists write not very good things about me. Even nicer than what they write on this forum.

                  in Russian forums there is always a MAN who shuts up the Nazis !!
                  Quote: Aray
                  engage in denunciations?

                  I just put cheap provocateurs like you like that !!))))
                  1. +1
                    22 January 2013 14: 09
                    in Russian forums there is always a MAN who shuts up the Nazis !!

                    Nationalists. Natsiks tokmo in Germany were Fuehrer's, and all of them were killed by one Russian Vanka and his Bratishkas ... Sorry to get in ... And now he’ll shoot if they appear, you won’t be so lazy about it that you don’t even pay special attention to his power, and if he’s also a healthy old man, then it’s not a problem at all ...
                    1. Yarbay
                      +3
                      22 January 2013 14: 18
                      Quote: klimpopov
                      Nationalists. Natsiks tokmo in Germany were Führer and, indeed, all of them, the Russian Vanka and his Bratishki shot him ... Sorry to get in.
                      Hi Klim!
                      I do not agree, I think Nazism is an ideology !!
                      If the ideas coincide with the ideas of the German Nazis, then these Nazis!
                      Sorry, I'm writing with translit, maybe more errors than before!
                      1. +3
                        22 January 2013 14: 54
                        Yes, yes, welcome. But nevertheless, ncism is national socialism - yes, this is an ideology naturally, but when the Slav speaks about the ideas of national socialism in Russia, excuse this nonsense, because national socialism was directed at everything else against the Slavs just like the Slavs, against everything Slavic considering the Slavs themselves subhuman. But where now Hitler and Goebels-everyone knows. Although their ideas live on the other side of our Ball. And again, Hitler at that time was the most violent in Europe and the Slavs have long had a bone in their throats in the west. Well, then you know everything ...
                      2. Yarbay
                        +3
                        22 January 2013 15: 35
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        yes, this ideology is natural, but when a Slav speaks about the ideas of National Socialism in Russia, I'm sorry this is nonsense, because National Socialism, in general, was directed to everything else against the Slavs just like the Slavs, against everything Slavic, considering the Slavs themselves subhuman.

                        I agree, but what can we say let's say the same Slav who considers all others subhuman ??
                        or look at US politics, isn't that a mild form of fascism?
                      3. +3
                        22 January 2013 15: 44
                        We’re just confusing concepts now. That is, I say that initially such a concept as Nazism has an economic component in its foundation, well, how would it be explained so that they would understand, in general, at that time the Slavs and others like them had huge territories that they did not give up in the end, the Jews had money which they also did not want to give, how to take them away (well, they ate very much on their fingers to explain)? It is right to include ideology and call subhuman, then the court is not needed, you can just take it away, in fact everything is very simple - money, and people in poverty and love to blame others for everything, again, any people. I’m just about that. Fascism, Nazism and so on are not being formed from scratch, this is a common truth. The USA is far from a mild form of fascism, it’s just that the methods have changed, but in general it’s the same old good colonial policy of small Britain flavored with Goebbels nonsense. I only mean that whatever one may say, but the Slavs in the west are one extreme FIG and pigs we are subhuman and so on. Russophobia probably dates back to the time of the Polish intervention, and not to the 18th century, as many people think. So in a world divided by nationality there will always be such a thing as nationalism, it probably stretches from the creation of the world, well, or there when some monkeys started sticking other monkeys with sticks, as you like, but he should not force it out of a person by force. I am not tolerant of these issues because living in the UK, it is difficult to stay away, but it is definitely not right.
                      4. Yarbay
                        +2
                        22 January 2013 15: 53
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        I am not tolerant of these issues because living in the UK, it is difficult to stay away, but definitely this is not right


                        I understand you, but I am convinced that the protection agencies on these issues do not work well for you and do not ensure the safety of ordinary people!
                        Quote: klimpopov

                        We’re just confusing concepts now.

                        Attention!
                      5. +3
                        22 January 2013 16: 07
                        I understand you, but I am convinced that the protection agencies on these issues do not work well for you and do not ensure the safety of ordinary people!

                        Well, we have our own kitchen here, with our skeletons for a long time. And about your dispute, I didn’t want to talk, but I’ll tell you. You know, I have a cafe opposite my house, this is not to say cool, but it is nice to drink beer in the summer in the heat, and so the Armenian is a former military man, a normal man, very polite and no one offends him when, on the contrary, Azerbaijanis sell fruit to me from work when they go It’s very convenient to buy from them, so it’s absolutely all the same as long as these people behave decently and do not sort out their interethnic relations in front of me ... It’s clear that this is a difficult question, but we are people all the same ...
                      6. Yarbay
                        +2
                        22 January 2013 16: 12
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        . It’s clear that this is a difficult question, but we are all the same people ...

                        I understand you perfectly!
                        But I was angry with the arrogance of my opponent and how he spoke down to other users, accusing the strong of weakness and an ally of betrayal, forgetting to look at his home!
                        this is a common provocation and incitement!
                        and one more moment Klim!
                        I specifically give them to read this forum at heart, expecting that at least someone, after two years later, will answer those villains or at least achieve the removal of these topics!
                    2. +1
                      22 January 2013 15: 11
                      I will answer myself. Only again it will be a shame that everything will be anew and then also build everything from scratch, well, how much is possible ... When will we start to live?
                  2. aray
                    0
                    22 January 2013 14: 15
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    If they are senile, then why no one answered them and does not answer that the Russians saved our asses, do not dare say so!
                    General silence suggests that you are two-faced!

                    There are many, maybe from the strength of 10-15 users, scumbags.
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    in Russian forums there is always a MAN who shuts up the Nazis !!

                    Are you sure that an ardent Natsik, you can shut up? The state of these freaks can not shut up))
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    I just put cheap provocateurs like you like that !!))))

                    Do not make me laugh...
                    You meanwhile, disgrace the Honor of the uniform, and do not put someone in their place.

                    And anyway, leave me alone. You stop me from doing homework. And then I’ll complain where I need to ... Enver You Pasha!)))
                    1. Yarbay
                      +2
                      22 January 2013 14: 25
                      Quote: Aray
                      There are many, maybe from the strength of 10-15 users, scumbags.

                      On the site how many people are registered ???
                      Why was everyone silent ??
                      Do not know Russian?
                      Why is not ONE of you indignant that is what interests me, because you care about Russia, are unhappy that Kazakhstan is doing this !!
                      Why is not enough ass and outrageous in their forums ???

                      Why did the moderators allow direct insults and still have not deleted ???
                      The answer is simple-two-faced you!
                      1. aray
                        -1
                        22 January 2013 14: 48
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        On the site how many people are registered ???
                        Why was everyone silent ??
                        Do not know Russian?
                        Why is not ONE of you indignant that is what interests me, because you care about Russia, are unhappy that Kazakhstan is doing this !!
                        Why is not enough ass and outrageous in their forums ???
                        Why did the moderators allow direct insults and still have not deleted ???
                        The answer is simple-two-faced you!

                        And what have you forgotten? Yes, you read your posts! Do you judge me and blame duplicity?
                        Russian troops from my house, only a couple of tens of kilometers. By the way, they are very friendly with the population. And you expelled all the guys from Azerbaijan and are conducting an anti-Russian policy.
                        And after that, you put on the officer’s uniform, and then suck up the Russians?

                        Not to mention how many of your citizens are fighting in the ranks of the Wahhabis and killing Russian soldiers. And we are fighting against them alongside the Russians ..
                        And after that, you put on the officer’s uniform, and then suck up the Russians?

                        Turkey finances the militants in the North Caucasus and everything goes through Azerbaijan, treat the thugs at home.
                        And after that, you put on the officer’s uniform, and then suck up the Russians?

                        Accuse the 366th regiment of some massacre in Khojaly, curse the undeservedly Russian and Russia.
                        And after that, you put on the officer’s uniform, and then suck up the Russians?

                        Your politicians and user on the Internet, putting avatars of Turkish pasha criminals who massacred many nations, find fault with the Russians and call for the collapse of Russia.
                        And after that, you put on the officer’s uniform, and then suck up the Russians?

                        Do you judge duplicity? This list is huge. But I won’t go on, because I’m not a scammer and I have nothing to suck at Russian. I’ll knock out your teeth without Russians)))
                      2. kNow
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 04
                        aray,
                        What angry speech from the outpost laughing you took permission from the owner so that people shut up their mouths? calm down already, and then you walk on the heels and arrange a swara ...

                        A Russian officer, one of those who are ten kilometers from your house, says that you called the central street of Yerevan the name of a fascist henchman ... So friendliness to you is compelled ....
                      3. aray
                        -1
                        22 January 2013 15: 13
                        Another oguz ... but how many of you are there? Leave off the sores.
                        He's haunting me. Bad vision?

                        And take this night rat off your avatar.

                      4. kNow
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 29
                        Quote: Aray
                        this night rat.

                        Are nightmares still haunting? feel By the way, you're a petty liar, can I prove it? lol
                      5. aray
                        -2
                        22 January 2013 15: 33
                        Quote: kNow
                        Are nightmares still haunting? By the way, you're a petty liar, can I prove it?

                        Some kind of kindergarten ((
                        Turned a public trash. And why Admins keep these flooders ???
                        What do you want? Are you able to prove something?
                      6. kNow
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 35
                        Quote: Aray
                        Some kind of kindergarten (

                        some outpost


                        Quote: Aray
                        Turned a public trash. And why Admins keep these flooders ???

                        Now it’s clear to whom David bequeathed his notebook with agitation ....

                        Quote: Aray
                        What do you want? Are you able to prove something?

                        Do not twist, caught on a small lie ....
                      7. Yarbay
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 14
                        Quote: Aray
                        Not to mention how many of your citizens are fighting in the ranks of the Wahhabis and killing Russian soldiers. And we are fighting against them alongside the Russians ..


                        Well, yes))))))))))))))) right next to you?)))))))))))))))))
                        Azerbaijani citizens of Russia also fight with Wahhabis and not only !!
                        I know one lieutenant colonel personally, lives in Vladikavkaz! In Dagestan I know riot police of Azerbaijanis!
                        I know the general, he commanded the division, so this is a non-indicator!
                        I myself fought with them!
                        !
                        Quote: Aray
                        Turkey finances the militants in the North Caucasus and everything goes through Azerbaijan, treat the thugs at home.
                        Let the facts, but not delirium voskopanata)))
                        Quote: Aray

                        Accuse the 366th regiment of some massacre in Khojaly, curse the undeservedly Russian and Russia.
                        More than half of the officers in the 336 regiment were Armenians!
                        And we curse those of the officers who, having sold themselves to your fascists for money, killed unarmed people, not the Russian people!
                        Among the Russians were the heroes of my country, who did more for me than my country, they died for it!
                        Yes, we curse Yeltsin and Gorbachev, but they did not call Russians pigs and subhuman Russians
                        !!
                        Quote: Aray
                        Your politicians and users on the Internet, putting avatars of Turkish pasha criminals who massacred many nations, find fault with the Russians and call for the collapse of Russia

                        Hayat ???)))))))))))
                        Azerbaijan, unlike Armenia, is not an ally of Russia!
                        I know that many call Russia an enemy because of friendship with Armenia, but I never saw anyone insulting the Russian people!

                        I would see, I would answer !!
                        and would sue!
                      8. aray
                        -1
                        22 January 2013 15: 18
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        I know that many call Russia an enemy because of friendship with Armenia, but I never saw anyone insulting the Russian people!

                        What a pathetic sneak you are (((
                        Quote: Yarbay

                        I myself fought with them !!

                        By denunciations?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Among the Russians were the heroes of my country, who did more for me than my country, they died for it!

                        They were freak mercenaries. But for you, of course, and a night killer with an ax a hero. What a nation, such and such heroes.

                        Hey, get a shorter one. Tightly thinking? Yap ((
                      9. kNow
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 25
                        Quote: Aray
                        These were freak mercenaries.

                        These Russian guys are heroes. They were born, raised, fought and died in Azerbaijan. This is also their land .... You do not understand this .... And call the freaks of your thugs whose hands are up to the elbow in blood, including your piercer ss ....
                      10. aray
                        -2
                        22 January 2013 15: 35
                        Quote: kNow
                        fought and died

                        The Russian guy, in the same trench with Basayev and Gelayev, will not fight ((
                        Not to mention, about the Mujahideen of the Afghan. Which were simply teeming with you. Shah Masoud tried his best.
                      11. kNow
                        0
                        22 January 2013 15: 39
                        Quote: Aray
                        The Russian guy, in the same trench with Basayev and Gelayev, will not fight ((

                        Will it be with your Lebanese fighters?

                        Quote: Aray
                        Which just teemed with you

                        fear has big eyes :)
                      12. aray
                        -1
                        22 January 2013 15: 44
                        Quote: kNow
                        fear has big eyes :)

                        Why is fear so? And fear?
                        They torn the claws so that they already left the pants. By the way, your Safar Abiyev, doesn’t want your pants back? We have them)))
                      13. kNow
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 15: 47
                        Quote: Aray
                        Why is fear so? And fear?

                        How did 200 people swarm across the front? therefore great :)

                        Quote: Aray
                        doesn’t want his pants back? We have them)))

                        Store in the Museum of Military Glory :) we’ll also buy diapers for you :)
                      14. aray
                        0
                        22 January 2013 16: 11
                        Quote: kNow
                        Store in the Museum of Military Glory :) we’ll also buy diapers for you :)

                        Pass the diapers to Aliyev, he needs it.
                        That's it, ignore. Rest a nomad!
                      15. Yarbay
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 15: 39
                        Quote: Aray
                        . What a nation, such and heroes.

                        you are completely international terrorists in heroes, then you have such a nation !!
                        Quote: Aray
                        Hey, go shorter.

                        not currency))))))))))))))))
                      16. aray
                        0
                        22 January 2013 16: 14
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        not currency))))))))))))))))

                        You too, come on for a fellow tribesman! Take the diapers together to the commander in chief.
                        To ignore)
                      17. kNow
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 15: 31
                        Yarbay,
                        Yarbai, what can we do for aray? "man" lacks our society :)
                      18. homeland
                        +1
                        23 January 2013 09: 27
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Hayat ???)))))))))))
                        Azerbaijan, unlike Armenia, is not an ally of Russia!
                        I know that many call Russia an enemy because of friendship with Armenia, but I never saw anyone insulting the Russian people!
                        I would see, I would answer !!
                        and would sue!


                        And here I met, a while ago on the Baku-Tyumen train, and not a single one, unfortunately, I don’t know the Azerbaijani language, but there was direct aggression in Russian, someone agreed that he was wrong, someone remained with their cockroaches in the head.
                        I don’t want to breed demagoguery, there are scoundrels everywhere, but I ask the moderators to completely clear this thread of comments, the military review forum after all.
        2. kNow
          0
          22 January 2013 15: 16
          Quote: Aray
          The fact that the Russian troops are in Armenia and we gave them our territory for the bases, then you, Azerbaijanis, need God to pray for this. By the way, the Georgians too. This is beneficial to you. Oh, how beneficial.

          Do not forget to pray yourself laughing our voice does not reach heaven, our voice is weak :)
          Quote: Aray
          The South Caucasus is the most vulnerable place in Russia. It can be said that it’s a belly. Having left Russia Armenia, you will get so many problems in the North Caucasus that my mother does not grieve.
          So, the presence of Russian troops on the Caucasian frontier is simply vital for Russia. Otherwise, it threatens the collapse of Russia itself (without exaggeration).

          Quote: Aray
          Do not forget about the problems of Lezghins and Talysh

          Here you are so sincerely suffering for Russia, forgetting about Armenia, and at the same time provoking a conflict so sweetly on its southern borders laughing ... Russia itself will give you a head for incitement to separatism ....
          Quote: Aray
          So, while the Russians are with us, you sleep peacefully. And I say again, pray to God that the Armenians do not change their minds

          Your owners will not let you jump out of the box like a devil, like under Gorbachev .... Like, if not Russia, would you cut us into sausage right now? laughing I'm just sorry for you ....
          Quote: Aray
          If you expel Russian troops from your territory, you’ll get so many problems that you’ll just drown in your own blood. Such revolutions will begin among you and the Georgians in all the colors of the rainbow ...

          What language is it in? translate someone ...
          1. aray
            +1
            22 January 2013 15: 23
            Yes you are hysterical)
            How many emoticons painted. Also from the Aliyev special forces of the cyber-asker unit? Fold off. Do not flood. Theme-Baikanur.
            Do you think?

            Awww .... where are the admins. Educate these nomads. These maniacs are chasing.))
            1. kNow
              0
              22 January 2013 15: 28
              aray,
              Quote: Aray
              How many emoticons painted

              I’m so softening your tantrum :)

              Quote: Aray
              Educate these nomads. These maniacs are chasing.))

              persecution mania, son? it is necessary to doctors, administrators will not help you ....
            2. Yarbay
              +1
              22 January 2013 15: 43
              Quote: Aray
              Awww .... where are the admins

              hooligans deprive of sight?))))
              This is already the case!))))))
              I agree with this!))
              You just do not have to blame Russia for its weaknesses, but Kazakhstan is a betrayal and no one will persecute you)))))
              and this is called provocation!
              1. aray
                -2
                22 January 2013 15: 50
                Quote: Yarbay
                Kazakhstan is in betrayal and nobody will chase you)))))

                The insignificant sneak. ((
                I have nothing to talk about with you anymore. Your brain, but rather, an imitation of the brain, is too underdeveloped. You sit here, you collect huskies. Work better. This is not the case. ((
              2. +4
                22 January 2013 18: 12
                WELCOME YOU ALIBEK, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU, WISE WORDS !!! + DEAR TO YOU !!!
                1. Yarbay
                  +2
                  22 January 2013 18: 18
                  Quote: Bekzat
                  WELCOME YOU ALIBEK, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU, WISE WORDS !!

                  Hi Bekzat!)))
                  How is my namesake?)))))))))
                  and you with the past holiday !!
                  1. +2
                    22 January 2013 18: 38
                    GROWING, TWO YEARS OLD HUMAN RECENTLY, RUNS, LOVES TO PLAY WITH THE GRANDFATHER. WHAT ABOUT YOU? HOW IS YOUR HEALTH?
            3. +6
              22 January 2013 15: 50
              Quote: Aray
              These maniacs are pursuing.))

              If maniacs, then police phone 02 hi
              1. aray
                0
                22 January 2013 16: 05
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                If maniacs, then police phone 02

                Not seriously, I see you as a moderator. Why is there so much flooding? And here, the Armenian-Azerbaijani relations with this topic?
                What kind of srach did they make. Who needs it? And the Armenians who write on some kind of obscure forums, racist posts? With these posts, here the forum was filled.
                Is it possible to do this? I also have very interesting news from Azerbaijani users. But is this idiocy?! ((
                1. +2
                  22 January 2013 16: 07
                  Quote: Aray
                  What a srach they made. Who needs it

                  So I’m thinking. What a srach, I’m sitting and deleting your comments with mutual insults, but everyone has earned a good warning!
                  1. +2
                    22 January 2013 17: 37
                    I was punished for less. And nothing is alive yet.
                  2. homeland
                    +1
                    23 January 2013 15: 18
                    Yes, here you need to clean the entire branch, is it meaning to do this through the Internet?
                    You can’t come to a consensus and you won’t prove anything when everyone turned to insults
              2. Jin
                0
                22 January 2013 16: 06
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                If maniacs, then police phone 02


                Hi Sasha! laughing lit up! but I’m still thinking when will you hear his calls!
              3. +2
                23 January 2013 04: 08
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                If maniacs, then police phone 02

                The police will not help here. Immediately 03 laughing
  4. borisst64
    +4
    22 January 2013 09: 15
    Each country seeks to chop off a piece of the pie. The main thing is not to cross reasonable boundaries. I am sure that we will find a common language with the Kazakhs.
  5. aray
    -4
    22 January 2013 09: 17
    Quote: borisst64
    I am sure that we will find a common language with the Kazakhs


    Not a fact. It’s self-confidence that has always let Russia down.
  6. dusha233
    +16
    22 January 2013 09: 19
    Last year I was at Vostochny Cosmodrome, there construction is going by leaps and bounds, so many people are working that we will have a new cosmodrome in speed! Kazakhs wash themselves and sit in a puddle with nothing !!
    1. +2
      22 January 2013 09: 40
      And yet one moment worries me very much, the Vostochny cosmodrome is still in the Northern Hemisphere, I understand that it was not fools who calculated the launch costs (well, at least I believe in it), and nevertheless it is much to the north of Baikonur - is Vostochny capable of replacing Baikonur one hundred percent? Again, up to half of commercial launches take place in French Guiana, if the Kazakhs expect that Europe will come instead of Russia and pay more, they are very mistaken ... So it really looks like twisting the hands of Russia - they say there is nowhere to go, well, and make more money before how they will stop earning anything at all. In general, it is sad, of course, not so sad that it’s like this with us, but sad to look at the officials and the authorities in the former Soviet republics ...
      1. +3
        22 January 2013 09: 46
        So really it looks like twisting the arms of Russia - they say there’s nowhere to go, well, to earn more before they stop making anything at all. In general, it’s sad of course, it’s not so sad that it’s like that with us, but it’s sad to look at officials and authorities in the former Soviet republics ....

        This is the case. The eastern one is located at 6 degrees to the north, which means it will be able to put less load into orbit. But I think that this fully compensates for the cost of paying for the rent of the cosmodrome, as well as payments for the fall of steps in Kazakhstan. Well, roughly speaking, there will be two starts instead of one.
        1. 0
          22 January 2013 10: 07
          Quote ... Wedmak ...... That's right. East is 6 degrees north ....

          I don’t know how accurate the reference is, but according to the Atlas of the USSR, I get
          the difference is only 1 degree, Baikanur - 48, and Vrstochny 49.
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 10: 10
            No, no, I was not mistaken.
            Baikonur - 45 ° 57′58 ″ s. w. 63 ° 18′28 ″ c. d.
            East - 51 ° 49 ′ s. w. 128 ° 15 ′ c. d.
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 10: 32
              Wedmak

              Thank you!
        2. +12
          22 January 2013 13: 30
          Quote: Wedmak
          The east is located 6 degrees north, which means it will be able to put less load into orbit


          Start-up and technical complexes should be commissioned in 2014. While there are no lags from the schedule. Yes, and a lot of money goes there Until 2020, the construction of a new Russian space center should be invested 492 billion , This is only a special construction, regional commercial contractors are also involved who invest in infrastructure development, Far Eastern firms, not only Moscow and its branches. Of the 2,5 thousand people who are now working around the clock at a construction site in Uglegorsk, a third are local Amur residents.
          The very concept of this spaceport provided for its use as a launching pad for heavy missiles, which Russia is now forced to launch only from Baikonur. "Union", for example, can be launched from Kazakhstani territory, and from Plesetsk, and from French Guiana. Light "Rokot" and "Cosmos" - also from Plesetsk (now we are talking only about civilian launches). And here The heavy Proton can only be launched from Baikonur. Therefore, even before the construction of the East, in 2010, Roscosmos held competition among domestic developers of launch vehicles on new heavy rocket, the base for which should be the Vostochny cosmodrome. It was won by the manufacturer of the most famous and reliable middle-class missiles, TsSKB-Progress (Samara), in cooperation with RSC Energia (Korolev) and the S. V.P. Makeeva (Miass). Project "Rus-M" However, in the fall of 2011, the Russian Security Council approved the proposal of the new leadership of Roscosmos on termination of work on "Rus." Instead, they proposed a modular (with a loading capacity from 1,5 to 23 tons) Angara rocket, which rival "TsSKB-Progress" - GKNPTs im. M.V. Khrunicheva - unsuccessfully trying to launch into space since 2005. Its start was postponed eight or nine times. The latest announced launch date for the lightest version of Angara is 2013.
          In addition, the launch from the East its heavy version - "Angara-5" - puts Russia in an ambiguous position in front of Kazakhstan partners. Back in 2004, the Khrunichevites agreed with them on the organization of Angara-5 flights from Baikonur. Russian rocket scientists were going to do this with extrabudgetary money, and Kazakhstan - invest up to $ 2 billion of budget funds in the construction of the launch pad for the "Angara" under the name "Baiterek". Now Kazakhstan’s authorities have extended the rent of Baikonur to Russia until 2050, but it seems that did not receive a direct answer to the question when the Angara will fly from Baiterek. If Russia registers "Angara-5" in Vostochny, then launching it from Kazakhstan becomes, to put it mildly, a fiction and the Kazakhs fly over with the "Bayterek". and with money invested there
          This is the essence of all these movements around Baikonur lately. Therefore, Kazakhstan allowed in 2013 to carry out 12 launches of Proton-M missiles out of 17 requested. The launches of Glonass satellites, as well as launches under the programs of international cooperation and commercial projects were agreed. Kazakhstan does not allow launches of military satellites and test launches of missiles In addition, the use of the Proton-M launch vehicle for launches of spacecraft in 2013 is being agreed no more than 12 (two missiles less than agreed in 2012). Until the issue with "Bayterek" is resolved, this "war" will go on
          1. Yarbay
            +2
            22 January 2013 16: 26
            Quote: Ascetic
            - invest up to $ 2 billion of budget funds in the construction of the launch pad for the "Angara" under the name "Baiterek


            I understand the price of the issue more than 2 billion ??
            1. +4
              22 January 2013 16: 32
              Quote: Yarbay
              I understand the price of the issue more than 2 billion ??

              Good evening Alibek, the price of the issue is the absence of the Angara, as a result of the refusals to launch this rocket carrier from Baikonur.
              1. Yarbay
                +2
                22 January 2013 16: 37
                Quote: marshes
                Good evening Alibek, the price of the issue is the absence of the Angara, as a consequence of the refusals to launch this rocket carrier from Baikonur

                Hello Marshes!
                Will the hangar be a joint rocket ??
                1. +4
                  22 January 2013 16: 46
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Will the hangar be a joint rocket ??

                  They wanted to create a joint project, Baiterek, even allocated the money. 2004 already signed the contract and the first launch was to be carried out in 2012. Angara was to replace the highly toxic Protons.
                  1. +3
                    22 January 2013 21: 15
                    Quote: marshes
                    They wanted to create a joint project, Baiterek, even allocated the money. 2004 already signed the contract and the first launch was to be carried out in 2012. Angara was to replace the highly toxic Protons.
                    - Swamps, Yarbai, categorically welcome! Something today was a day on this site - and the anti-Kazakhstan was read, and was dumbfounded by a bunch of pluses on the next branch to Manager, who said something stupid, let's ban Islam in Russia. Mine is in shock! We fought and fought on this site for something completely different - for friendship between peoples, for mutual interfaith tolerance, for Russia, like Kazakhstan, is a unique multinational multiconfessional power, and get the one and the other on you! Let's ban Islam in Russia! That is, Manager offers all Tatars, peoples of the North Caucasus to ban their religion and gets a bunch of pluses!
                    According to Sabzh, Yarbai - according to a joint project by Baiterek, the same Angara rocket was developed and planned for launches from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, the launch of this rocket, developed with Kazakh money for Baiterek, was not planned for launches from the new cosmodromes being built in Russia. Such a decision without coordination with the Kazakh side is pure arbitrariness on the part of Roscosmos
                    1. Yarbay
                      +1
                      22 January 2013 22: 57
                      Quote: aksakal
                      - Swamps, Yarbai, categorically welcome! what

                      Hi))))))))

                      Quote: aksakal
                      Something today was a day on this site - and the anti-Kazakhstan was read, and was dumbfounded by a bunch of pluses on the next branch to Manager, who said something stupid, let's ban Islam in Russia. Mine is in shock!

                      Although we often discussed with you and it almost came to fights, but mine is also shocked by Manager))))))))))
                      Then I agree with you, Manager I don’t think he just wrote it, he is a thinking person, so it’s strange for me!
                      By the way, as I thought Manager wasn’t))))))))))))))))
                      You have mixed up the aksakal, however it happens to you)))))
                      1. 0
                        22 January 2013 23: 30
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Here I agree with you, Manager I don’t think he just wrote it, he is a thinking person, so it’s strange for me! By the way, as I thought Manager wasn’t worth it)))))))))))))) You mixed up the elders, but you have it it happens)))

                        Exactly, the Krasnoyarsk said such a thing there, but Manager also did not differ in very friendly rhetoric:
                        Idiyoto, the Cross Wars are the Crusaders! - Catholics, later Masson.
                        Inquisition too Catholics! But not Christians! Compare Christians and Catholics is the same as the Baptists with the Buddhists.

                        It is not necessary to prohibit anything. But to put in place is simply necessary.

                        Whom to place? Sounds like putting Muslims in their place. What have Muslims to do with when shaitanists are engaged in terrorism? By the way, the assessments have calmed me down, finally. At first, everything was already green in Krasnoyarsk, now it turns red -)))))). Thank God, there is a lot of common sense on this site! This is on the "Islamists have no chance!"
                      2. +2
                        23 January 2013 00: 03
                        I welcome you Aksakal, and what you do not like? Islam alien religion and prohibition would be very helpful and I will explain why.
                        1. After two Chechen companies, 70 percent of the population (Orthodox) considers ALL Muslims to be terrorists and there is nothing surprising, since Russian guys were killed there under the screams we knew and cut their heads, which was even more terrifying.
                        2. After, there were a lot of explosions in my city, Kashirskoye highway, etc., explosions in the subway, and all this was aimed precisely at reinforcing the aversion to Muslims.
                        3. Islam in Russia professes, if I’m not mistaken, about 10% of the population, and then if I take my friends Tatars and Dagestanis (who like to eat fat and pork), there are not so many real Muslims who adhere to religion, that is, they essentially neutral, what will happen to Islam in Russia (I'm talking about my friends)
                        4. How Muslims behave in Orthodox cities, just "down from the mountains", probably no need to explain, again, aversion to this religion.
                        5. The bulk of those who came from the former CIS republics also have the status of the religion of Islam, and there is an extremely negative attitude towards visitors, that is, their religion as a whole.

                        Here are 5 vantage points that surfaced in 10 minutes of thought, you are still wondering why more and more calls are heard in Russia to ban this religion?

                        For example, those who came from Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc., absolutely do not respect our religion, so why should I, as a representative of Orthodoxy, respect your religion, which is foreign to my people?
                        ps
                        Just don’t have to pour minuses, answer my questions.
                        Sincerely.
            2. +4
              23 January 2013 00: 13
              Quote: Yarbay
              I understand the price of the issue more than 2 billion ??

              Alikbek, the Kazakhs have undertaken to build a new launch complex for the "Angara" with their own money, and we will actually make this Angara. While the rocket is strained and uncertainty. And now the Kazakhs are building a complex for two lard, and we are transferring Angara to the East. And what will the Kazakhs launch from this complex later?
              A donut hole, while losing this money, plus the lost part of the profits from commercial launches of heavy rockets. That's all the fuss. We also get not comme il faut, we thought that we would build the rocket before the Vostochny cosmodrome and for several years we would launch it from Baikonur under the Baiterek program, and then we would move to Vostochny. And since the missiles are not yet foreseen and the cosmodrome is being intensively built, it may turn out that "Baiterek" will no longer be needed. Here is the alignment.
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                23 January 2013 01: 48
                Quote: Ascetic
                Alikbek, the Kazakhs have undertaken to build a new launch complex for the "Angara" with their own money, and we will actually make this Angara.


                Stanislav and then what’s the rocket?
                Is it Russian anyway ??
                Kazakhstan does not receive technology for production ??
                I understand that they do not even participate in production, then why Russia does not make this rocket?
                For any, Russia doesn’t lose anything ???
                What is the reason for the transfer of missiles to the East ??
                1. +4
                  23 January 2013 02: 10
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  I understand that they do not even participate in production, then why Russia does not make this rocket?


                  Alibek, I described everything why and about Rus-M with the Angara and about Popovkin what he is doing. They make a rocket and when they do it it’s not known, For a new type of rocket needs a modern launch complex with modern equipment. And this is an expensive pleasure, and we agreed with the Kazakhs that they would build this complex on their own money. A rocket is simply a carrier that launches satellites into orbit, and heavy rockets can launch them in two or three at once, and this is a commercial profit that will accordingly be divided based on the contribution to the project. I don’t know all the nuances there, but I know Talgat Amangeldievich as a person worthy to follow. I had to communicate with him several times, though it was a long time ago.
                  It's just that no president will force him to talk about any nonsense, such people do not bend, even of the Soviet temper. Most likely there "effective managers" of modern bottling screwed up by dividing the money. or out of stupidity, they did not properly calculate all the risks and terms of the project. What basically not politics but commerce is 100% This is the main thing. As always, they try to hide stupidity behind political rhetoric. Mediocrity and dark deeds.
                  1. Yarbay
                    +1
                    23 January 2013 12: 22
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    The fact that the basis is not politics but commerce is 100%. This is the main thing. As always, they try to hide stupidity behind political rhetoric. Mediocrity and dark deeds.

                    This is upsetting and annoying !!!
                    1. +1
                      23 January 2013 12: 47
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      This is upsetting and annoying !!!


                      Irritation and mutual hatred is just not the best way to correct mistakes, I hope that Putin and Nazarbayev understand this very well
                  2. +1
                    23 January 2013 16: 10
                    Show clearly, please, where and what was built for the "bayterek"?
                    While there is only current information:
                    To launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, the Baiterek space rocket complex (KRK) is being created, the first launch of which was scheduled for 2012, but then postponed to 2014. In 2008, several existing sites on Baikonur were considered as a possible base for the Baiterek missile complex. According to the latest data [15], it is possible to use the platform 250 (UKSS, Universal complex stand-start of the RN Energia), from which launches were made under the Energy-Buran program with the corresponding refinement of existing equipment. The site has not yet been finally selected and no work is underway on its equipment. The issue of participation in financing by the Republic of Kazakhstan has not been resolved either.
                    Currently, the issue of equal financial participation of the Kazakh and Russian parties in the project for the creation of the Baiterek KRK is being worked out. As the contribution of the Russian side, financing by the Russian side of the development of design documentation and the creation of the constituent parts (elements) of the complex, which in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation cannot be transferred for operation to the Kazakh side, is considered. this information is taken from http://kazcosmos.gov.kz/ru/2012/nashi-proekty/sozdanie-kosmicheskogo-raketnogo-k
                    ompleksa- “bajterek” -na-kosmodrome- “bajkonur .html

                    What conclusion?
                    They don’t see logs in their eyes, but they try to find our mash with unwashed hands. hi
          2. +5
            22 January 2013 21: 02
            Quote: Ascetic
            In addition, the launch from the Vostochny of its heavy version - Angara-5 - puts Russia in an ambiguous position in front of its Kazakh partners. Back in 2004, the residents of Khrunichev agreed with them on the organization of flights "Angara-5" from Baikonur. Russian rocket scientists were going to do this with extra-budgetary money, and Kazakhstan - to invest up to $ 2 billion of budget funds in the construction of a launch pad for the Angara, called Baiterek. Now the authorities of Kazakhstan have extended the lease of Baikonur to Russia until 2050, but it seems that they have not received a direct answer to the question of when the Angara will fly from Baiterek. If Russia registers "Angara-5" in Vostochny, then launching it from Kazakhstan becomes, to put it mildly, a fiction and the Kazakhs fly over with the "Bayterek". and with money invested there
            “Greetings, Ascetic!”
            Well, finally, the long-awaited and reasonable post! And from whom? Yes, from the same Ascetic. The representative of the Russian side on this thread. Unfortunately, the rest of the representatives went on about their emotions, snatched out of the article, which was far from objective, by the way, what touches the most, read only what they wanted to read and let's post indignant, and sometimes frankly offensive posts! Moreover, it is presented in an interesting way - almost all the posts are variations on the theme "they are extorting money again!", When below Kasym presses with facts that this is not a scam in general from our side, then Jin immediately writes, like, what did you want? Market! You are not against the market! "Well, first of all, the requests of an unknown Kazakh deputy should not be perceived as official state policy. We do not take insulting nonsense about Kazakhstan from Zhirinovsky for official Russian policy!
            Thank you for your post. You are the very real Russian Man, the bearer of the very qualities for which we are respected by Russians!
            1. +2
              23 January 2013 00: 13
              Well, on this occasion, my own point of view.
              You yourself know very well that a lot of money has been invested in the defense industry (although some have already been plundered :)), the state is now trying to do everything to save money anywhere, fines for everything that can be raised, prices for everything that can be increased, like ours at the top of the campaign did not calculate about the military budget, but as always, all through the ass. So, the situation with the CIS republics is the same, Russia cannot throw out extra money, and these projects are expensive, therefore they are trying to save money wherever possible, Baikonur is no exception + the cosmodrome on its territory has no obligation, unlike Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.
      2. avt
        +1
        22 January 2013 10: 52
        [quote = klimpopov] And yet one moment worries me very much, the Vostochny cosmodrome is still in the Northern Hemisphere, I understand that it was not fools who calculated the launch costs (well, at least I believe in it), and nevertheless it is much north of Baikonur - is the Vostochny one hundred percent capable of replacing Baikonur .--------------------- Of course not, especially in the short term, that was under construction " Baikonur "is not one year, but it is necessary to build" Vostochny ", Nazarbayev is still a beetle, I remember how in Soviet times, with his participation, riots were stirred up when they appointed a Russian head of the republic. In general, he would not think about space! Let him deal with the heir first, and in general he shouldn't have rushed from Alma Ata to Akmolinsk and renamed the capital.
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 11: 22
          comrades, briefly explain what the difference is north and south; in the south, space is closer?
          request
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 11: 31
            The closer you are to the equator, the higher your speed (Earth rotates the same). Accordingly, at the equator, we get an additional momentum of the rocket and, at the same fuel costs, a heavier load can be put into orbit.
          2. 0
            22 January 2013 11: 47
            At the equator, the centrifugal speed of rotation of the earth is greater, respectively, with the same effort, the payload put into orbit is greater (this is simple).
            ps we kind of deduced something else from the French guiana .. there and similar problems surfaced?
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 11: 50
              thanks understood
              hi
              1. DmitriRazumov
                +5
                22 January 2013 13: 49
                Well, in fact, the main thing here is the proximity of the equator to the geostationary orbit, i.e. an orbit located with an inclination of 0 degrees directly above the equator. This orbit is considered commercial, since the spacecraft hang on it in relation to the observer from the Earth, as if at one point. This quality is widely used to create various types of space transponders, widely used communication and telecommunication satellites, etc. Therefore, it is this orbit that is used to place a huge number of commercial satellites, which bring great profit.
                Other orbits. have a non-zero inclination; they are mainly widely used by reconnaissance and other scanning devices. In our country, launches to these orbits are carried out from the northern training ground, a space center located in the Arkhangelsk region.
                1. +2
                  22 January 2013 14: 52
                  DmitriRazumov,

                  Quite right. With the commissioning of Vostochny, commercial launches from the Plesetsk cosmodrome will cease, there will be only "military space", all "civilian" launches will be carried out from Vostochny.
            2. +1
              22 January 2013 11: 56
              The unions from where they were withdrawing, again Ruslan dragged them there. There, even in the museum, our Union stands ... Now it is unclear there is almost no information, but Europe this year is threatening to increase the number of launches (commercial naturally) ..
          3. +2
            22 January 2013 22: 13
            Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
            ovarischi briefly explain what the difference is north and south, in the south space is closer?

            the closer to the equator the more economical is the launch of cargo into orbit
    2. 0
      22 January 2013 14: 39
      Here we must not miss the fact of the trajectory of the fall of the first steps - it will pass through Sakhalin and the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, so the environmental consequences can be very large.
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 18: 53
        There is a MAKS project that is economical and ecological.
        PS. There is a launch base "Yasny" (Orenburg region) and the Kapustin Yar training ground.
        1. gradient
          0
          23 January 2013 12: 43
          there is no MAX, it's a chimera. The Dombarovskiy position area does not have any infrastructure other than silo launchers for R-36M missiles, Kapustin Yar has only a launch complex for light class Kosmos-3M missiles
  7. +9
    22 January 2013 09: 43
    The foundation of the launch complex has already been flooded in the east, work is underway on the foundations of near-launch facilities. The first launch is already planned in 2014, i.e. everything is being built at a very fast pace. As soon as this launch occurs, Russia can safely lay a bolt on Baikonur. It is a pity of course, but looking at extortion of Kazakhs is also not a thing.
    Let them choke on this Baikonur. Only here I have a few questions:
    Does Kazakhstan have its own space program? Is there money to maintain the spaceport? Is there a production of launch vehicles, spacecraft? Is there fuel production for them? Training and research centers? Mission Control Center?
    As a result, I think that the spaceport will simply be dismantled, stolen, sold for metal. In the best case, if they have a smart guy, they will try to use it or give it to the Americans / French for rent. But something in the best is believed with great difficulty.
    Attempts to cash in on the inherited Soviet goods at the expense of a neighbor have not yet led to anything good.
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 09: 51
      The task is not in its program, the task is to squeeze as much as possible now and then turn it all into a blackboard for the paintball (well, or whatever it is) ...
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 13: 39
        klimpopov,
        Yeah, with an area of ​​almost 5000 sq. km, the right flank, like the left, is 90% of the launches of combat missiles, by the way, are still on alert, although the city of Leninsk itself already now looks like the scenery for the film "Stalker", but the city and the range are far from only 5 space launches, there will be a problem, and a big one, but it must be solved in the military-quickly and decisively, because it is impossible to "negotiate" with the Kazakhs, they will stroke their boobs, then they will climb into their pants, their appetites will grow without stopping and ambition. negative
        1. +8
          22 January 2013 20: 17
          Why talk about what you don’t know.
          1. The current launches of ICBMs (RS-18, RS-20) - 3 units (1- RS-20, 2- RS-18) and 4 more inoperative (3 - RS-20, 1- RS-18 near Rokot) .
          2. The last part carrying the database at the Cosmodrome was disbanded in the early 80s. All PUs are blown up.
          3. Watch less "yellow" TV channels about horror films. Baikonur is a normal city with a developed infrastructure and residential complex. Green and blooming.
          By the way, I work and live at the cosmodrome since 83.
          PS
          The $ 2 billion that Kazakhstan allocated for the construction of the Bayterek IC were successfully "used". As a result, a memorial stone appeared on the site of the alleged UK. Seeing that there was no money, Kazakhstan offered Russia the construction with an equal participation of 50X50. Russia, of course, did not agree to finance a project that was unpromising for it. After that, the crazy idea arose to take the Zenit-M spacecraft and gradually withdraw the spaceport from lease. And I just don't want to talk about the prospects of Kazakhstan as an independent space power, because of the obvious inconsistency of this idea
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 22: 06
            Quote: Kosmodrom
            And I just don’t want to talk about the prospects of Kazakhstan as an independent space power, due to the obvious failure of this idea
            - you may be right. Therefore, it is like a lever of pressure on Russia to do what you have announced. To create a rocket, for which money is paid, and to reconsider the "unpromising", especially since the costs are 50 to 50.
            About insolvency
            Quote: Kosmodrom
            Kazakhstan as an independent space power

            - I think the usual Russian underestimation of its neighbors. In the years of the beginning of the collapse, the Russians left in droves. When asked them - why are you leaving? It will be easier after all, you just need to roll up your sleeves! In response - only a skeptical smile. And almost all finally threw it - oh, sorry, everyone will fall apart! After all, they do not know how, only sheep are able to graze! Ruined?
            1. gradient
              +3
              23 January 2013 12: 55
              What kind of rocket ?! "Angara" is being created with the money of the Ministry of Defense, Kazakhstan was supposed to build a launch complex, more precisely, modernize the mothballed UKSS. Where did you put the money for this start, and whether it was - this is a question for your officials. Now the concept has changed, and Russia itself, with its own money, has to build a start for you. Can't you put jam on your back?
      2. 0
        22 January 2013 21: 53
        Continue. Then Russia leaves Baikonur, with the exception of that site for the heavy "Proton" - and really will just have to cut it into metal, because it will not be restored to such a state. That is why Kazakhstan on shares wants to enter into operation of the Cosmodrome. It seems to be beneficial for Russia. There is no need to pay 115 million, and those 200 million of maintenance costs are halved! I suspect that just Russia is not interested in this. After all, then Kazakhstan will increase the maintenance of the Cosmodrome up to 300-400 million and force Russia to do the same. And 600-800 million for the maintenance of the Cosmodrome is not 200 million, this is the development of Baikonur, only on partner relations with Kazakhstan. And what about those cosmodromes? Unclaimed. You are not true when you say that the demand for launches is very high. It's not that big. And Russia perceives such steps of Kazakhstan as an attempt to become a competitor to Russia, because all these initiatives are torpedoed. So it's not a competitor, but a partner! But by torpedoing and sabotaging, you will just grow a competitor. No need for smirks here! Nazarabev will follow the principle - without any Frenchmen and amers, we will create what you have listed above and become a space power, already a full-fledged one. Just like with Astana - he announced a national program to move the capital and strained the country. And here it will be the same! The DPRK can, but Kazakhstan can not? Kazakhstan would like to master and develop space and develop the world's best cosmodrome with Russia!
        1. gradient
          +1
          23 January 2013 13: 07
          The Turks built Astana for you, as I understand it, the same Turks will build rockets for you? Rocket building is a gigantic industry; you cannot buy it for petrodollars.
          1. Ronin201
            0
            28 January 2013 13: 19
            And the French and Chinese missiles (you can cooperate with the North Koreans to cooperate) will be built and launched, the main thing is without you advisers ...
            1. 0
              28 January 2013 14: 53
              sorry but the Chinese have their own spaceport
        2. homeland
          +1
          23 January 2013 22: 20
          Napoleonic plans smile
    2. predator.3
      +4
      22 January 2013 09: 57
      Quote: Wedmak
      Does Kazakhstan have its own space program? Is there money to maintain the spaceport? Is there a production of launch vehicles, spacecraft? Is there fuel production for them? Training and research centers? Mission Control Center? As a result, I think that the spaceport will simply be dismantled, stolen, sold for metal. In the best case, if they have a smart guy, they will try to use it or give it to the Americans / French for rent. But something in the best is believed with great difficulty. Attempts to cash in on the inherited Soviet goods at the expense of a neighbor have not yet led to anything good.


      Your truth, soon after a couple of years everything will be covered with sand, and Baikonur will turn into a dead city, like the ancient Merv.
    3. +3
      22 January 2013 21: 51
      Quote: Wedmak
      It is a pity of course, but looking at extortion of Kazakhs is also not a thing.

      - What extortion, The Witcher? Above the post of Ascetic, here the Ascetic, before posting, entered the topic, got acquainted and posted a very reasonable post, for which he respect! You are frankly disappointing ... Is it difficult to do what Ascetic did?
      Quote: Wedmak
      Does Kazakhstan have its own space program? Is there money to maintain the spaceport? Is there a production of launch vehicles, spacecraft? Is there fuel production for them? Training and research centers? Mission Control Center?
      - This was and has been and still is at the highest level! There is a space program - yes, the same Baiterek, there are still a lot of them. Money for the maintenance of the spaceport? “The Witcher, are you confusing us with Tajikistan?” And you’ll generally disappoint ... In the know that Kazakhstan has almost 12 thousand $ of GDP per capita? For comparison, Russia has only a couple of thousand dollars more, while Ukraine, which is industrially powerful, has almost two times less. So what do you think, does Kazakhstan have money or not for the maintenance of the Cosmodrome? to be continued

      Quote: Wedmak
      Is there a production of launch vehicles, spacecraft?
      - No, but at one time the Russians said - why do you need to spend money on this? Unfasten us, we have everything, and you have to build it all, give TK grandmothers - and we will create this missile for you on time. After all, the Russians are worthy of trust, right? And now what? The dates were postponed seven times, the last time - this year. So the rocket still being created will not only be launched from Baikonur, but also from somewhere else ... How about trust?
      Quote: Wedmak
      As a result, I think the spaceport will simply be dismantled, stolen, sold for metal
      - you think badly. Case, again, do not confuse, this time with the Papuans?
      Ultimately - in short, instead of renting, which will eventually ruin the cosmodrome, cooperation in the field of space exploration on an equal footing is proposed. In the Sabzh it was announced - 115 million for the rental itself (in the form of weapons and other barter) + 200 million for maintaining the spaceport in working condition. Let's be honest - your 115 million to Kazakhstan with its budget is generally no sideways, a penny, because of which it would not even be worth starting a conversation. And your 200 million is also a penny, completely insufficient even to maintain a cosmodrome from simply slow destruction. This money can support Baikonur in working condition right up to the moment that those two Russian cosmodromes are finally built.
      1. +2
        23 January 2013 10: 38
        If everything is so rosy, how do you paint, why does Kazakhstan always put sticks in the wheels of Russia? Either the launch will be banned, then the lease will be increased, then the payment for the fall of the steps will be increased .... then this, then this ... If you are so rich and you can do it yourself, what the hell is going on then? You did not answer any of my questions, and the numbers in dollars are not the answer. It makes no difference to me the number of dollars per capita - how much of the GDP goes to the budget of your space program?
        And yet, tell me, the Baiterek complex at what stage of construction?
  8. +4
    22 January 2013 09: 58
    Quote: klimpopov
    ... if the Kazakhs expect that Europe will come instead of Russia and pay more, ...

    This is how, may I ask? I don't understand how you can simply "come" to a site built using completely different technologies and standards? It's not a Skoda to repair in a sharashka!
    Costs awaiting come. From compatible - only power and water supply. Well, housing is still with which it is not known what will happen during our eviction :-))
    1. +6
      22 January 2013 10: 04
      Yeah .. but the Kazakhs are smart! Europe will come, buy carriers from Russia, buy spacecraft, fuel and everything else from us, bring it to Baikonur, put it, debug it, start it, give a big suitcase of money to smart Kazakhs, say thank you and leave. And the Kazakhs will again be sitting in a kiosk in the middle of the steppe and selling tickets for the use of THEIR cosmodrome.
      And what doesn’t work together .... I’ll definitely have to give a throw, the grandmas wanted more.
      1. DmitriRazumov
        +2
        22 January 2013 18: 46
        Quote: Wedmak
        And the Kazakhs will again be sitting in a kiosk in the middle of the steppe and selling tickets for the use of THEIR cosmodrome.

        The standard dream of the Central Asian buy is that someone will come do everything, and he will only trade and skim the cream. In this case, the buyer will consider this hard worker a fool and a simpleton.
    2. +1
      22 January 2013 13: 45
      Executer,
      Housing there is Khrushchev’s project of the 70th year, the geyropeytsy will not be able to live in it, it began to fall apart in the 90s, I think now it’s painful to look at it
  9. +7
    22 January 2013 09: 59
    at the end of the eighties I was in Baikonur (they brought equipment), I remembered a clean and beautiful city. A friend served in the beginning of 2000 - one third of the city is empty. Will Russia leave the cosmodrome, will Kazakhs launch fireworks from the sites, or will they make money on tourists?
    1. +3
      22 January 2013 10: 06
      will tourists earn money?

      So what. In Ukraine, there are excursions to Pripyat .... In my opinion, even official ones.
    2. nnnnnn
      0
      22 January 2013 11: 34
      Quote: zadorin1974
      at the end of the eighties I was in Baikonur (they brought equipment), I remembered a clean and beautiful city. A friend served in the beginning of 2000 - one third of the city is empty. Will Russia leave the cosmodrome, will Kazakhs launch fireworks from the sites, or will they make money on tourists?
      http://lib.rus.ec/b/214887/read#t54
      The sunset of the landfill is inextricably linked with the personality of Major Kobelev. The eyes are blue-blue, childishly unscrupulous. He himself was not inclined to drink, but thanks to alcohol he successfully removed competitors for the theft of military property. Including the commander of the regiment Zakharov, whom he drank and fired. Chuvash was not far off. Kobelev’s military path was direct and valiant. Without any military education, he bought the major position of the head of the MTO for alcohol. There, in the warehouse, there were even copper nails and circles of wax. Kobelev at first did not know where to put all this until the era of cooperators came.

      Perestroika finally undermined the material and technical base of the Strategic Missile Forces. Century-old landfills suddenly turned out to be Klondike of non-ferrous and rare-earth metals. First, abandoned starts were plundered, then the battle went into action. This vein was opened by state criminals who began to sell cable to the Koreans. The main cables fell SNEST, SMK PVB and SMK PVK and others. In the guards, soldiers chopped a cable on a rail with a fire ax into pieces of thirty centimeters. The stumps were thrown into a barrel and set on fire. Polyvinyl chloride shell and resin burned out; the copper wire remained, which was transported to the 141st site, which was at the disposal of the chief of staff of the regiment Gridnev (nickname "Plum"). At first there was a melon. Pyro-bolts were tested at the site, and he got up on it, then set up a small smelter - he made copper ingots, poured silica sand inside for weight, and sold it to Koreans. He did not start his wives out of economy; he did not even have civilian clothes. When foreigners arrived and everyone was ordered to appear in civilian clothes, he arrived in a shirt without shoulder straps and uniform trousers. The regiment commander screamed:
      - What do you need to give thirty so that you buy your pants?
      As the head of the rear, Kobelev found another gold mine: lids from battery containers. From these covers he got the hang of collecting garages. Since there were a myriad of these covers on the landfill, he filled them with freight cars and sent them to their historic homeland. One of the fellow soldiers passing by Orenburg discovered a kilometer-long fence made of battery covers along the railway. These were the famous Kobelev garages. In addition to garages, he built six private houses in Orenburg. Safely transported there the remaining warehouse property, even refrigerators from the guards (he did not disdain ammonia as well), and left by himself, marrying Oticheva.
  10. Kostjan
    +11
    22 January 2013 10: 06
    It's a shame for Baikonur with its great history, it is a pity that it turns into a lever of pressure in the hands of some SAMODURS.
  11. +1
    22 January 2013 10: 09
    As far back as 91st, Nazarbayev said that they are a space power and together with Ukrainians they will launch rockets from Baikonur (without Russia).
    But Talgat Musabaev then stated that he was a Russian cosmonaut.
    1. Jin
      +1
      22 January 2013 11: 07
      Quote: SarS
      As far back as 91st, Azarbayev said that they are a space power and will jointly launch missiles with Ukrainians from Baikonur (without Russia).
      But Talgat Musabaev then stated that he was a Russian cosmonaut.


      laughing Cool! And to buy everything from us ... Here are the nits, we pay Ukraine for the fleet base, the Kazakhs for Baikonur, and most importantly what? Neither one nor the other has a damn! Some have potatoes, others have feather grass, but dust! But damn ambition! Okay, some have already besieged, these are jumping too ... The bad thing is that we get at our side, another beggarly neighbor! And where there is poverty, always all unrest begins ...
      1. aray
        -5
        22 January 2013 11: 18
        Quote: Jin
        these, too, are jumping ... The bad thing is that we get at our side, another beggarly neighbor! And where there is poverty, always all unrest begins ...

        And how do they jump, interestingly? Kazakhstan is rich and it has, besides natural resources, China is also rich nearby and, in addition to all this, amers and Turks have long dreamed about Kazakhstan.
        It seems that this country is living directly through a lease from Baikanur. No, you are mistaken.
        And to put them in their place, in Russia, there is nothing. What could they do on the radar in Gabala? They drove out? Yes, they drove out! They could,? Yes, they could!
        1. Jin
          +2
          22 January 2013 11: 33
          aray,

          No, Kazakhstan is not the only Baikonur alive))) But, you argue that 300 million are worth a million bucks. That’s a dime! Nothing good, they will not gain from a break with Russia, they will only lose. Moreover, from space they will become much further!
        2. +3
          22 January 2013 11: 33
          And to put them in their place, in Russia, there is nothing. What could they do on the radar in Gabala? They drove out? Yes, they drove out! They could,? Yes, they could!

          Yeah, the heroes ... They kicked out, and what did they get in the end?
          1. aray
            0
            22 January 2013 11: 48
            Quote: Wedmak
            Expelled, and what did you get in the end?

            They didn’t get anything. They simply ousted Russia from another position.
            So it will be with Baikanur.
            And while Russia is pursuing such a toothless policy in the world, it will continue like this. They will drive from everywhere. And whose plan is it, I should not think about it again,).)
            So, to say unequivocally that "they will not dare" or "nothing will come of them", "Russia will answer" and all that, this is all empty talk. The reasons must be looked for much deeper than just the financial part of the problem (this is not serious ).
            1. +13
              22 January 2013 15: 03
              Quote: Aray
              And while Russia is pursuing such a toothless policy in the world, it will continue like this. They will drive from everywhere. And whose plan is it, I should not think about it again,).)


              In this case, we are not talking about a toothless policy, but about the banal "Serdyukovism" in Roscosmos. On what grounds was the Rus-M project closed? and in return you got a long-term construction and an incomprehensible situation with the "Angara"? Then they threw the Kazakhs on the grandmothers with "Bayterek" Who lobbied for these decisions, who received kickbacks, who ruined Phobos Grunt? pranks with GLONASS? There are a lot of questions to which there are no answers. Popovkin is a stool of "cosmic scale" and all these undercover games and pulling of budget funds for subsequent development already touch upon the issues of interstate relations with the same Kazakhstan and not only, I know that there were problems with Israel, which were successfully hushed up and the money left in the "unknown" direction. For one Phobos-Soil, you can put up against the wall, just as some comrades in the Union would have received real terms for "Breeze-M", and under Stalin they were shot for sabotage. One should start with one's own relatives according to the principle "Oboronservis" - "Roscosmos" at least. then there will be no problem with Baikonur
              1. DmitriRazumov
                0
                22 January 2013 18: 56
                Quote: Ascetic
                Popovkin is a "cosmic scale" stool

                I do not quite agree with you. Popovkin has a good basic education, graduated from a specialized military higher education institution (VIKA named after Mozhaisky). He served from lieutenant to colonel general in the military space forces of the USSR and further on of the Russian Federation. He was the head of one of the spaceports at the time. So unlike other officials (Serdyukov, Shoigu, etc.), he knows the subject from the inside. Unfortunately, problems have been piling up for decades. In the 90s, officers in the VKS were not paid a salary for years, the RNII KP and other institutions had a similar situation, so now there are so many disruptions. According to press reports, Popovkin seems to have begun raking rubble around thefts on GLONASS topics. Let's see what will happen next...
                1. +9
                  22 January 2013 20: 42
                  DmitriRazumov,

                  Soon he will be fired. Believe me, He does not rake any blockages. Unfortunately, even with a specialized education, not all managers can avoid the temptation of easy money. In Roscosmos itself, it is already openly criticized for ill-conceived decisions that could finally bury the Russian cosmonautics.
                  Today, a joke walks around the workshops and design bureaus of the Russian space industry: “Russia has the largest Pacific constellation of satellites. Not a single state has managed to flood so many new satellites in the Pacific Ocean ”
                  Space troops, in fact, have always been only a supporting structure; the generals had only a very indirect relation to the development of new spacecraft and rocket carriers, not to mention the scientific research of space. At the same time, domestic cosmonautics achieved the greatest success when fan-dedicated designers were at its helm, not only versed in all the nuances of the industry's work, but also able to generate bold ideas and charge people with their energy - this is not about Popovkin.
                  And his activity being in the rank of Deputy Minister of Defense as the chief arming officer in 2010-2011 frank lobism of foreign military equipment For which he was removed. About the passes about the T-90 and Leopard, everyone probably still remembers. Therefore, it is not surprising why, after Popovkin’s appointment to the post of head of the Federal Space Agency, many in Roskosmos joked that Russian astronauts will fly into space on American equipment.... Why did I call him "cosmic Serdyukov"?
                  Yes, because Urlichich’s case of fraud in the CSW with the GLONASS program is not only falling apart so Popovkin himself, allegedly being initiator of verification modestly stands aside. But Popovkin oversaw GLONASS from the Ministry of Defense, and since 2008 he was a member of the Board of Directors of the RCC. That is, his signatures, like those of Urlichich, are under many large contracts concluded by the RCC. Of course, we can assume that Popovkin did not know anything about the possible thefts, but during the scandal around the CSW one more extremely interesting detail surfaced. It turns out that Natalya Popovkin’s daughter, in the years when billions were allegedly plundered in the RCC, received income from the main owner of the now famous NP KP - ACC Space TV, and at the same time two other companies founded by Yuri Urlichich. Popovkin explained this fact by coincidence - they say that at that moment his daughter was on academic leave and he asked his friends to get her a job closer to home in the east of Moscow. And it so happened by coincidence that these firms were directly related to the CSW and the GLONASS program, which Popovkin oversaw in the Ministry of Defense. What is interesting, according to the documents, Popovkin’s daughter worked in these companies for several years - such a protracted academic leave. The question involuntarily begs: were these incomes of Popovkin’s daughter an unofficial payment for the official to seemingly accidentally notice what was happening in the “Russian space systems”? What is not Serdyukov, almost direct analogies can be traced. Popovkin’s wife Natalya Grigoryeva in 2005 (at that time Popovkin commanded the Space Forces) seemed to accidentally also become the founder of Cosmosenergokontrakt LLC, which, according to reports, was engaged in the supply of electricity to the spaceport subordinate to her husband. Some of Grigorieva’s business partners later became defendants in a criminal case - they were accused of supplying military electricity at inflated prices and bypassing tax laws ...
                  And you say he is raking .. Rather, he is raking up for himself and his relatives
                  1. +4
                    22 January 2013 21: 00
                    Now let's move on. Urlichicha was somehow removed. Now, all the multibillion-dollar costs of the GLONASS program can be attributed to him, and you can remain white and fluffy yourself and continue to master this huge pie, having already single-handedly promoted the person you need to be the head of the RCC. According to rumors in the high corridors, they can become the former NGS Yuri Baluyevsky with whom he has maintained close and friendly relations since serving in the Moscow Region. He is also
                    Quote: DmitriRazumov
                    graduated from a specialized military higher education institution (VIKA named after Mozhaisky).

                    The next in line victim is the head of the Rocket and Space Corporation (RSC) Energia Vitaly Lopota. On the eve of the new year 2013, Lopota publicly opposed Popovkin’s reform plans for the rocket and space industry. In December 2012, Popovkin decided to create a management company and transfer the Khrunichev Center, TsSKB Progress under her leadership, and the subholding and NPO Energomash to the engine building company, having removed the latter from the control of RSC Energia. According to Lopota, all this will kill competition in the industry, and one cannot disagree with this opinion - virtually all engine building will be consolidated into a single structure. The fact is that back in 2010, a decision was made to reorganize the rocket and space industry according to a different scheme: TsSSB Progress and NPO Energomash were transferred to the management of RSC Energia. Another large holding was built on the basis of the Khrunichev Center. The result was two competing manufacturers of launch vehicles - Proton and Angara from the holding on the basis of Khrunichev and Soyuz at RSC Energia. It was approximately the same in the USSR.About this option reorganization froze. It is difficult to predict whether Lopot will survive this conflict with Popovkin, it is possible that in the near future, as in the case of the RKS in RSC Energia, a major corruption scandal could happen, and some tanker or artillery officer close to Popovkin will take the place of Lapota. What is only Popovkin’s statement that in the near future the number of personnel in the industry can be reduced from the current 240 to 150-170 thousand people. Popovkin offers to compensate for the loss of workers in the industry by attracting private firms to the lower levels of the industry. In this regard, for some reason, I immediately recall the recent scandal in Samara, where counterfeit production of components and parts for Soyuz rockets in garage boxes was discovered. It seems that if Popovkin’s plans to attract free business to the industry come true, then such garage cooperation will be put on stream. It's no secret that the Russian space program today is supported by older specialists - the majority of skilled employees have exceeded 50 years of age, and they are not expected to change. Young people are reluctant to enter the industry because of small salaries by the standards of industry.
                    The situation is so tense that in the industry serious opposition has already formed to the current boss of the Russian space program. It is difficult to judge how far this confrontation can go. One thing is clear: it will not lead to anything good.
                    1. +6
                      22 January 2013 21: 09
                      Now more about the Rus-M heavy rocket project. Today, all manned flights are carried out on Soyuz rockets, which were developed back in the 50s of the last century and, despite their constant modernization, are already morally outdated. The Soyuz in the space arsenal was to be replaced by the Rus-M launch vehicle being developed by RSC Energia, which has many advantages over its predecessor, in particular, manned launches can be carried out from Russian spaceports. However, in 2011 the project was frozen - insufficient funding was called the official reason. At that time, almost all was spent on preparing the project for the complex. 2 billion rubles. At the same time, the officials of Roscosmos categorically assured the public that we didn’t need Rus-M at all, since the development of a similar Angara missile was completed. These statements looked strange, since the Angara was developed exclusively as a cargo complex to replace Progress. The use of the "Angara" for manned flights was not discussed. However, in October 2012 there were reports that work on Rus-M would nevertheless be resumed, the total cost of the project was estimated at 250 billion rubles. So far, space officials have decided which rockets we need and which notsystem developers lost a whole year... and again, huge government funds, that is, in fact, our money with you. Who will be responsible for these two billion?
                      Not everything is going smoothly with the cargo "Angara" - the first test launch of the launch vehicle, despite the fact that all its main components have successfully passed ground tests, has been postponed eight times already. Roscosmos officials hope to launch a rocket in 2013 for sure, but we heard similar promises in 2012 and 2011. However, I have already spoken about this above. As you can see, the leadership of the space industry today faces tasks that are quite comparable in scale with the creation of "Buran". But the scale of the individuals who were at the helm of the space industry then and today are completely incomparable. And it's not even about the organizational "abilities" of Mr. Popovkin. Representatives of the old space guard, with whom I spoke, believe that Popovkin's career as head of Roscosmos should have ended after the memorable story of a drunken brawl at an internal corporate party in March 2012. and silence about the deprivation of the military ranks of cosmonauts that Serdyukov turned. These are the "effective managers" that govern our pride and national treasure COSMONAUTICS
                      1. DmitriRazumov
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 22: 42
                        I agree that the collapse in the industry and the volume of embezzlement have reached unimaginable limits, which undoubtedly hinders the development of space programs. It is unlikely that Popovkin is "white and fluffy" and the fact that he will save the Russian cosmonautics is also hard to believe. But recently, the tendency is that people who are generally far from the topic are often appointed to such positions, I have already cited examples of Serdyukov and Shoigu. Popovkin can be considered the lesser of evils, especially since he has been leading the industry only since April 2011. and all those miscalculations. You absolutely correctly listed it is hardly possible to write off personally to him. Moreover, the previous leader was generally from the Strategic Missile Forces and, in fact, had nothing to do with the problems of the space industry, nevertheless, he held the position for almost 8 years. So in this sense, Popovkin's appointment can be considered a positive moment.
                        Of course, we have not forgotten Korolev, Yangel, Pilyugin and other leaders of the space industry since the USSR. were not only administrators, but also brilliant designers at the same time, and therefore, in incredibly difficult conditions, in the shortest possible time, they achieved the goal that Soviet cosmonautics was the most advanced in the world.
                        Unfortunately, in modern conditions, we have a tendency that for positions that even require talent, special knowledge and experience, rogue accountants and managers are appointed at best ...
                      2. +5
                        22 January 2013 23: 31
                        DmitriRazumov,

                        And Popovkin is just a protégé of Perminov, who at one time when his leaders were called nothing but "Tolya two percent" by analogy with Kasyanov. So much he collected from subordinate enterprises "for the needs of the agency" This is also no longer a secret, even in wide circles of the public, as they say. If my memory serves me when in 2001. formed the KV, separating from the Strategic Missile Forces Perminov from the post of the NGSH of the Strategic Missile Forces went to the Commander-in-Chief of the KV and Popovkin from the post of the General Staff sent to him as the Chief of Staff of the KV. Hence such continuity can be traced.
                        Perminov in 2004 left the head of Roscosmos, and Popovkin was appointed commander of KV ..
                        Under Perminov, the Federal Space Program 2006-2015 was actually failed. But he created a family bank (his son was a member of the board of directors) and all the funds of Roscosmos were accumulated there.
                        Or take the scandal at RSC Energia when he fired Academician Semyonov, the successor to Korolev's business, and put an unknown businessman in the post. Sevastyanov is true with an MIPT diploma without any scientific degrees. Then the Collective Letters to Fradkov and Putin were signed by the Governor of the Moscow Region Gromov and the State Duma deputies, scientific luminaries and famous cosmonauts, the entire management and labor collective of RSC Energia. But Perminov stoically withstood all this noise and "struck" his little man at RKK. Which, presumably, will be obliged to his benefactor for the grave of life. Since then, Sevastyanov has headed RSC Energia for 10 years during this time and has not risen above the first level of qualification - a mathematician engineer of the third category and was suspended from work after the loss of one of the Yamal satellites.
                        So Popovkin, along with his predecessor, two boots of steam.

                        One of Perminov’s own resolutions on a letterhead
                        “You both [the head of the department of automatic space complexes and control systems of Roscosmos Mikhail Novikov and the general designer of GLONASS Yuri Urlichich] with Urlichich m ... and you can’t do anything decent, don’t take it.”
                      3. DmitriRazumov
                        0
                        23 January 2013 16: 04
                        Quote: Ascetic
                        This, too, is no longer a secret, even in the general public, as they say. If my memory serves me when in 2001 formed the KV, having allocated Perminov from the Strategic Rocket Forces from the Strategic Missile Forces, the Strategic Rocket Forces went to the Commander-in-Chief of the KV and Popovkin came to him from the post of General Staff officer to him as the Chief of Staff of the KV. Hence, such a continuity can be traced.

                        According to Perminov, everything is correct. Only here, HF is the successor of GUKOS (the Main Directorate of Space Facilities and Systems was formed in 1981), parts of space purposes and then the aerospace forces (military-space forces). With the formation of GUKOS, the space direction fell completely out of control of the Strategic Missile Forces (and earlier it had only been decided on the basis of agreement) and developed independently, with the exception of a short period of time when Sergeyev was Minister of Defense, and even then he could only take commercial launches onto himself , which was his main goal. Head of GUKOS, etc. subordinated to the NSS and further down the vertical MO, etc. The missile launchers never had any idea about the tasks of the space industry, and therefore it was decided to form the main office as part of the General Staff.
                        Now for the military space forces.

                        Space troops, in fact, have always been only a supporting structure; the generals had only a very indirect relation to the development of new spacecraft and rocket carriers, not to mention the scientific research of space. At the same time, the Russian cosmonautics achieved the greatest success when fan-dedicated designers were at its helm, not only versed in all the nuances of the industry's work, but also able to generate bold ideas and charge people with their energy - this is not about Popovkin

                        Popovkin is indeed a general to a greater extent than an engineer.
                        But I will refer to my own experience of service in the videoconferencing (15 years). During this period, I had to solve problems in engineering and scientific positions at the State Research Institute of Research and Development (Main Research and Testing Center of the Moscow Region). This structure is the lead in managing the entire network of NIPOVs (Scientific and Measuring Points) located across the vast territory of our country and actually carrying out spacecraft control (orbit correction, laying of time programs, ephemeris, telemetry recording, etc.).
                        The GNIIC included in its structure, in addition to purely operational departments, scientific departments, I also served in the scientific department.
                      4. DmitriRazumov
                        0
                        23 January 2013 16: 24
                        Quote: Ascetic
                        Perminov from the post of the National High Command Strategic Rocket Forces came to the Commander-in-Chief of KV

                        Perminov, if my memory serves me, has never served in the VKS. He was the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces. Clean rocket.
                      5. DmitriRazumov
                        0
                        23 January 2013 16: 06
                        . I will not refer to others, I will indicate only some of the tasks that I have. I had to decide in person:
                        1. Development of system-wide software and mathematical support for GLONASS ground control systems. The topic was attended by GNITs, Scientific Computing Department (NVO) of the Academy. Mozhaisky and G -4149 (RNII KP Russian Scientific Research Institute of Space Instrumentation). At the same time, RNII KP acted only as a roof, drew up Nirov's papers and invoices. That. VKS officers were the direct creators of the technical and scientific base for the development of the GLONASS theme.
                        2. Research in the field of space sounding of near-Earth space. NINP MGU and GNIITS (officers of our department) participated in the topic.
                        3. Development of equipment and software for radio monitoring of the orbit for spacecraft of navigation constellations (up to GLONASS) based on navigation equipment of a sea-based consumer. The GNIITS, RNII KP and the 9th Institute participated in the topic.
                        4. Not a single decision on the management, optimization of the constellation or its development and improvement was made by representatives of the general designer of GLONASS without the analytical group of the corresponding department of the GNIITS (essentially the GLONASS MCC). We kept in direct contact with the designers from Reshetnev's office.
                        On the whole, the decision to create and deploy a network of science-measuring points for controlling spacecraft based on the army structure was made in the 50s with good reason. You can’t drive any civilian highly qualified specialist into hard-to-reach areas so that he fulfills his duties in 365x24 mode. Therefore, this system was created by the military, and in the shortest time, less than 1 year and on October 4, 1957 it worked clearly! Mainly thanks to the military, this system functions and develops to this day. In the 90s, when no one received a salary (the military, too), all civilian specialists ran away from the research institute, and their directors rented out areas for offices, officers sat and at least fulfilled their duties at NPCs and launching sites. Therefore, we are still a cosmic power, and only therefore, in the 90s, something else remained in orbits ...
            2. +1
              22 January 2013 15: 24
              And I think one should act on the principle of "the fool himself." They do not want to work together, they want to row money without being responsible for anything - for God's sake. We are curtailing the work of Gabala, we are building our NEW radar station, and as you wish, turn out now without our money. Likewise with Baikonur.
        3. Jin
          +1
          22 January 2013 11: 44
          Quote: Aray
          , amers and Turks have long dreamed of in Kazakhstan


          So what? does that Kazakhstan need them? What for, what can they give him, apart from problems and PPC, how can these democratizers complicate relations with Russia? And China, which is close by? China has latitudes south of Kazakh and it is more profitable for them to invest in their "Kitaykosmos", and not to postpone launches to the north, with all the accompanying gimor to a heap ...
          1. aray
            -2
            22 January 2013 11: 58
            Quote: Jin
            And China, which is close by? China has latitudes south of Kazakh and it is more profitable for them to invest in their "Kitaykosmos", and not to postpone launches to the north, with all the accompanying gimor to a heap ...

            But I did not say that China will develop the space program in Kazakhstan. I had in mind that, alongside Russia, China also has economic interests in Kazakhstan. By the way, these relations are developing very dynamically. What can you say about the Russian-Kazakh ones.
            Quote: Jin
            So what? But do Kazakhstan need them?

            And they are not going to give anything. They would only push Russia out of Central Asia, as well as from the South Caucasus.
            1. Jin
              +1
              22 January 2013 12: 08
              Quote: Aray
              And they are not going to give anything. They would only push Russia out of Central Asia, as well as from the South Caucasus.


              Yes? Oh well! Do you think Nazarbayev is so near? Pipes! And will the Americans come to protect them from the Taliban too? They really cannot protect themselves in Afghanistan! They are not going to give! haha not funny !!! yes who will ask them ??? While they are friends with Russia, everything will be fine and they will have nothing to fear, how they get out of the way, the horseradish will begin! There, Srakoshvili is a ready-made example of friendship with amers .... Macedonian, damn it, unfinished
              1. aray
                -3
                22 January 2013 12: 14
                Quote: Jin
                And will the Americans come to protect them from the Taliban too?

                But Russia has a choice? I assure you that it is not!
                And everyone knows this, both Kazakhs and Uzbeks and Tajiks. wink
                1. Jin
                  +4
                  22 January 2013 12: 19
                  Quote: Aray
                  But Russia has a choice? I assure you that it is not!


                  There is always a choice! And I assure you, Russia has it too! Do you think Kazakhs will be better off with the Taliban or Amers ??? No! Look for Dudakov in a neighboring village! Those used to just take, but rob! Only Russia is able to give! And this is well understood by Kazakhs and Uzbeks and Tajiks ..
                  1. aray
                    -5
                    22 January 2013 12: 26
                    Quote: Jin
                    There is always a choice! And I assure you, Russia has it too! Do you think Kazakhs will be better off with the Taliban or Amers ???

                    Dear, the 10th Taliban grouping, march, even without serious fights, will reach Chelyabinsk’s borders a week before. They will pass through Central Asia without problems, if not Russia. Yes, I don’t argue. All the rulers of Central Asia know this too .
                    But Russia will get such problems from such a neighborhood that the North Caucasus will seem like a child’s game. So, you want to, you don’t want to, but you need to keep the Taliban near the borders with Tajikistan. Therefore, I say that Russia has no choice.
                    1. Jin
                      +4
                      22 January 2013 12: 47
                      Quote: Aray
                      Therefore, I say that Russia has no choice.


                      You either don’t understand or don’t want to understand me ... I’m not talking about what Russia will get, but whether Kazakhstan needs all this! Do they need the Taliban marching along the streets or the same amers? Hardly! And they are interested in the issue of stability in the region no less, if not more, of ours! for some reason, the question of the withdrawal of our military from their territory is somehow not raised, on the contrary! We strengthen the type of defense and cooperation! so what happens? Defend Russia this way, pay Russia that way, blood lei, again Russia! Not fat? And we like sitting here at our place and mowing the loot, a very elegant position! There is a choice! We will build a spaceport and we will take loot from a wealthy Kazakhstan for servicing the Baikonur and renting specialists !!! 355 million dollars a year! All! and the same amount for security! Plus the content and full support of our troops
                      1. aray
                        -2
                        22 January 2013 13: 11
                        Quote: Jin
                        We will build a spaceport and we will take loot from a wealthy Kazakhstan for servicing the bikonur and renting specialists !!!

                        No comment! I’m talking about that. Already in two posts I said that. good
                        The most correct decision! +100 to you!
          2. 0
            22 January 2013 20: 08
            China, in its south, on Hainan, if I am not mistaken, is building a new cosmodrome for itself. And this is even farther south than Baikonur.
        4. +4
          22 January 2013 11: 53
          Kazakhstan will not die. But from srach with Russia, it will lose more. And China needs to be afraid of Kazakhstan.
          1. aray
            +2
            22 January 2013 12: 07
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            But from srach with Russia

            There will be no srach with Russia, even if tomorrow the Kazakhs drive everyone out of Baikanur.
            Therefore, I agree that Russia is better off spending these hundreds of millions on its territory, rather than investing the devil knows where to sit on a camomile fortune-telling, expelling, will not be expelled.
          2. Jin
            +2
            22 January 2013 12: 11
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            And China needs to be afraid of Kazakhstan.


            Yeah, those piranhas! They’ll take it into circulation, then do not bite off their friendship!
            1. MilaPhone
              +3
              22 January 2013 13: 44
              Hmm, an interesting idea: do not pay money for the rent, but invest in your spaceport, force Nazarbayev to pay Russia for the rental of property, launch vehicles, specialists, etc.
              It's a good idea economically. But politically? Is it worth abandoning Baikonur even in favor of the Vostochny cosmodrome
              I don’t know, but the fact that Kazakhstan has followed the path of Azerbaijan is for sure. Sad but true.
              1. Jin
                +2
                22 January 2013 14: 21
                Quote: Milafon
                From an economic point of view, a good idea. But politically?


                Fair? Of course not! In fact, relations with Kazakhstan are not very simple and Russia needs it much more than just because of Baikonur! Unfortunately, there is no reference to material on this subject ... Nazarbayev has trump cards and trump cards very strong ... there about geopolitics in the region, everything is very, very serious. And the Amers with the Chinese have nothing to do with it, comrades in the Middle East have species there, Russia does not have such a balance at all.
                1. MilaPhone
                  +1
                  22 January 2013 15: 14
                  Quote: Jin
                  And the Amers with the Chinese have nothing to do with it, comrades in the Middle East have species there, Russia does not have such a balance at all.

                  Do you mean Turkey with its idea of ​​pan-Turkism?
                  1. Jin
                    0
                    22 January 2013 15: 45
                    Quote: Milafon
                    Do you mean Turkey with its idea of ​​pan-Turkism?


                    Well, not quite that ... I tried to find the link, I didn’t find it, sorry request
            2. +3
              22 January 2013 14: 01
              Jin,
              And they have already tried it, the Uighurs (count the same Chinese) at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century had them so much that they happily rushed into the arms of "colonialist" Russia, but apparently their memory was short
              1. Jin
                +2
                22 January 2013 14: 23
                Quote: Old Rocketman
                And they have already tried it, the Uighurs (count the same Chinese) at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century had them so much that they happily rushed into the arms of "colonialist" Russia, but apparently their memory was short


                I don’t want to insult entire nations and nations, it’s just that many have forgotten such an experience, now they have Russians, everything is completely bad and for some reason everyone should ...
              2. +4
                22 January 2013 22: 10
                Good evening Igor (old rocket)! For your information !!! Uighurs were never Chinese, they are Türks. This is the same thing as calling the Swede an Italian. We (Kazakhs and Uigurs) have very similar languages. Relations between Kazakhs and Uyghurs, like Russians with Belarusians.
                And about who had whom. Uigurs are noble farmers and merchants. They never fought, especially with nomads (including Kazakhs). Maybe that’s why they don’t have their own state-state (in terms of numbers, they are second in the world after Kurds who do not have their own state-state). Before the appearance of firearms, in our region the first word was given to nomads (not even the Chinese). It was on their sabers that the dynasties in China changed. At the end of the 18th century, the beginning of the 19th century, Kazakhstan was already part of the Russian Empire.
                You most likely meant JUNGAR. So, we had them so that only one tribe remained - KALMYK (whose president was Ilyumzhinov). They attacked from China - from the other side of the Tien Shan, treacherously. They didn’t spare anyone, they killed everyone in a row - the steppe has not yet seen such reprisal (only one in ten has survived in my family). They needed only our land. They were not even taken prisoner. Crowded by the Chinese, they came to us to take our land. This confrontation lasted a century. In response, they got what they wanted to do with us - they cut everyone out. Only Kalmyks were left - this tribe refused to fight with us, because they rightly considered this a fratricidal war. Kalmyks under escort, forced to make a detour around the Tien Shan mountains and Altai (on the eastern side) were relocated to the Volga; they were not allowed to go through our steppe. It was this war that united the nomads of the Great Steppe into one nation. And we began to be called Kazakhs - a union of 96 + 2 nomadic tribes. And then the Chinese trampled, and we were already bloodless. And then we became part of the Russian Empire.
                1. +2
                  22 January 2013 22: 56
                  Kasym,
                  Guilty, beguiled, but the essence of this does not change, Ahmet or Karim offended my sister is not important, it is important that offended hi
                2. Jin
                  0
                  22 January 2013 23: 24
                  Quote: Kasym
                  And then we became part of the Russian Empire.


                  Dauren +. Impressive! good Thanks to you, even now I know, in addition to your people, the history of the Kalmyks.
                3. -2
                  22 January 2013 23: 33
                  Quote: Kasym
                  Relations between Kazakhs and Uyghurs, like Russians with Belarusians.

                  I saw once a Kazakh Uyghur brother named, they ate away, probably hugging from big brotherly love
      2. +3
        22 January 2013 22: 15
        Quote: Jin
        But damn ambition! Okay, some have already besieged, these also jump ...
        “Gene, besiege your harsh phrases.” For the tenth time I’m writing here - Kazakhstan doesn’t need your penny 115 million dollars, its dofig grandmas! What beggarly neighbor? Do you mean that Kazakhstan only lives on these pathetic 115 million? Feather grass and dust, you say? Can you justify? Well, come here, now let's spot the long tongue ... Only feather grass and dust, you say? Can you justify? Prove links that Kazakhstan is a lifeless territory inhabited by robots? Come on, I'm listening!
        1. Jin
          0
          22 January 2013 23: 14
          Quote: aksakal
          Do you mean that Kazakhstan only lives on these pathetic 115 million


          No, I don't mean that! Understand one thing, I am not going to you as a nation, I am against the political component, which leads to such, as between us, "kusalov" !!! It infuriates that not politicians will suffer, but we are citizens of two neighboring countries! I have a Kazakh wife, if anything, and I don’t vyzhivayutsya here about what Russian handsome men and what Kazakhs are not handsome! (At the expense of a beggar neighbor ...) Understand, if something happens that we are arguing about, I mean a specific srach, it will be very difficult for Russia, and for Kazakhstan, believe me, with all due respect, it will be even worse! And to you, Kazakhs, my comments do not apply in any bad sense!
      3. Jin
        0
        22 January 2013 22: 44
        Dear Aksakal!
        This is not about Kazakhs and Russians, not about Kazakhstan and Russia! This is about politicians and their fucking movements! Dust and feather grass, this is not an insult to you and all Kazakhs, but an association with Baikonur and the steppes (he lived in Mongolia for 5 years, this is not a comparison, but a statement of fact), because we are talking about him .. You get tired of pulling me, as you say? "long tongue?" I'll kick it off ... I agree, maybe I put it bluntly, but you have a habit of swinging the saber without understanding, you're fed up with it ... I've noticed this peculiarity of yours in communication many times ... But where have you gone? Banned me chtol?
    2. -1
      22 January 2013 13: 48
      Sars,
      Belka and Strelka were also Russian cosmonauts, he is in the same row with them: laughing
      I respect courage all astronauts, they are really heroes, but 50% of them could successfully replace ordinary monkeys, just monkeys are more expensive.
    3. DmitriRazumov
      +1
      22 January 2013 13: 57
      In fact, partially the Ukrainian Zeniths also require the participation of Russian enterprises for their construction and launch, so it is not clear what they expect in Astana. Apparently, as always, Nazarbayev is bluffing and bargaining for the best conditions, but evidently he has been playing too much lately. Unfortunately, Kazakh comrades lack experience and education to understand what is required to maintain, operate and develop such a colossus as was Baikonur.
  12. +5
    22 January 2013 10: 11
    It is unreasonable to cut the branch on which you sit. The Kazakhs have no specialists in servicing the spaceport, not to mention the production of their rockets. So their expansion is more than incomprehensible. Each space power has its own cosmodromes, no one will bring their own missiles to launch to Central Asia, especially since Baikonur was built under Soviet missiles. Break off from their greed and nothing more.
  13. +9
    22 January 2013 10: 16
    Now the Kazakhs will attack and will say that we all do not understand that. It is about equal partnership. And here we are all some kind of nationalists. Haha
    The story of Baikonur is pure blackmail and
    1. Trying to make more money
    2. Touch the space powers and have a delicious gesheft with it.

    But somehow the Kazakhs do something wrong
    1. +10
      22 January 2013 10: 24
      What equal partnership are we talking about? Kazakhstan only participates as the holder of the land on which the spaceport stands. To go nuts, what are the costs of maintaining the steppe .... And the content of the spaceport itself, and the city of the same name nearby is provided by Russia.
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 10: 45
        Wedmak,
        Vo-Oh Colleague see, come running wink
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 10: 48
          I thought later they would ... and at least somehow argue their cons. wink
          1. +11
            22 January 2013 10: 58
            Quote: Wedmak
            I thought they would be later ... and at least somehow argue their cons


            Arguments are standard
            Did you build it alone?
            Why should it belong only to you?
            This is a normal business relationship.

            The trouble with all the republics of the former USSR is that they themselves have not really created anything over the past 20 years, which is why they are now trying to squeeze the last juices from the legacy of the USSR.
            And from here I conclude that in the USSR everyone was pulled by the RSFSR, and the rest were attentive.
            But who among the "independent" wants to agree with this. It's easier to call people like me nationalists and "arrogant Russians". And when you ask someone, well, what did you do during the period of independence, here comes a stupor. Because nothing.
            1. nnnnnn
              -1
              22 January 2013 11: 40
              Quote: volkan
              The arguments are standard: Were you the only ones who built it? Why should it belong only to you? This is a normal business relationship. The trouble of all the republics of the former USSR is that they themselves have not really created anything over the past 20 years, therefore they are now trying to squeeze the last juice from the legacy of the USSR. I conclude that in the USSR everyone was pulled by the RSFSR, and the rest were attached. But who among the "independent" wants to agree with this. It's easier to call people like me nationalists and "arrogant Russians". And when you ask someone, well, what did you do during the period of independence, here comes a stupor. Because nothing.
              ANALETEG for all thinks, the experience of trollism is large how much you get and from whom the FSB or Mossad ???
              1. +1
                22 January 2013 16: 07
                Quote: nnnnnn
                ANALETEG for everyone thinks, the experience of trollism is as much as you get and from whom the FSB or Mossad


                Do not you mean you will not live? So what?

                Everything is simple here. I don’t need to think for everyone. On this site, the Baikonur theme has been raised more than once or twice. And I know perfectly well what Kazakh colleagues say in such cases.
                Is the experience of trollism big? Any concrete examples? Or so, to say. In life, he did not troll anyone. What is the point then?

                And about the FSB or Mossada, you have my friend mania persecution of clean water.
                True, we have a saying "on a thief and a hat is on fire" ... Maybe you have something to do with these absolutely authoritative departments?
            2. 0
              22 January 2013 11: 47
              And what is so important and new that Russia has created over the past twenty years in space?
              Do not be shy, Russia, like everyone else, is basically engaged in making money on the Soviet legacy.
              And what about the freeloaders, you went a little too far. Since the late 90s Russia has been doing everything to prevent the very same Ukraine from the activities at Baikonur. Even more, "Baiterek" appeared only due to the fact that Russia really did not want Ukraine and the Republic of Kazakhstan to begin joint implementation of an "interstate" space program with the involvement of a number of participants - Israel and Sweden.
              1. +4
                22 January 2013 16: 29
                Quote: romb
                And what about the freeloaders, you went a little too far. Since the late 90s Russia has been doing everything to prevent the very same Ukraine from the activities at Baikonur. Even more, "Baiterek" appeared only due to the fact that Russia really did not want Ukraine and Kazakhstan to begin joint implementation of an "interstate" space program with the involvement of a number of participants - Israel and Sweden


                I’ll tell you more, if I were in power I would never have allowed a political prostitute (at the moment) Ukraine to our space technologies, or God forbid, the children of Israel ...
                Do it and our technology will skip west with a big grin.
                I still hope that we are not round-and-d-and-o-t-s
                1. +1
                  22 January 2013 17: 19
                  Do it and our technology will skip west with a big grin.

                  Dear Andrey, dissemble again. You want to say that Russia never transferred (with this or that sauce) Soviet technology to the west or to China?
                  I would never have admitted to our space technology a political prostitute (at the moment) Ukraine ...
                  Isn't "Yuzhny" Ukrainian KB? At least, after the collapse of the USSR, in my opinion, it is.
                  1. 0
                    22 January 2013 18: 11
                    Quote: romb
                    important Andrei, again disingenuous. You want to say that Russia never transferred (with this or that sauce) Soviet technology to the west or to China?


                    Where did I say that? We sort of speak Russian, but you don’t understand me.
                    I didn’t say that I didn’t transmit. Only now it came out sideways. That is why now I am saying that you have to be very careful. Remember the nuclear bomb delivered to China. Could he be a nuclear power now? I doubt it. At best, it would be at the "development" stage. And now it has quite an impressive arsenal of nuclear weapons. And if we have the wrong thing with China? what then? They armed themselves.

                    sensible choice comes with experience .... and stupid choice leads to it ..
                    So I hope that we had plenty of stupid elections. It’s time to make current decisions.
            3. +3
              22 January 2013 12: 41
              Andrey (VOLKAN). "They themselves have not really created anything over the past 20 years."
              Here you are seriously mistaken. Railways (new), roads (new), power plants, assembly of steam locomotives and wagons, cars and helicopters, new capacities in metallurgy, etc., etc. The country's industrialization and social development program (for example, in 2011, 144 new industries were opened - plants and factories, other enterprises) until 2020 - according to our bureaucrats, Kazakhstan should be among the 50 most developed countries in the world (more further). For example, if you have a socially significant project, then you can get a loan at 8% (of which the state will pay 7%, and you only .... 1% per annum). In our example, Russia has created its program for the future. Gold and foreign exchange reserves exceeded $ 80 billion. - This is more than in Russia, if you count per capita.
              "in the USSR, everyone was pulled by the RSFSR, and the rest were attached"
              This is without comment, study the history of the USSR, where there were 6 republics of donors. Kazakhstan has nothing to be ashamed of over the past 20 years.
              Sorry, but in a hurry - I ran to dine.
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                22 January 2013 12: 48
                Quote: Kasym
                Sorry, but in a hurry - I ran to dine.

                Glad to see you!
                Come back often !!
                1. +3
                  22 January 2013 16: 13
                  Alibek, salam! And I'm glad to see you and read your comments. Brother, thanks for the New Year greetings and support!
                  1. Yarbay
                    +4
                    22 January 2013 16: 22
                    Quote: Kasym
                    Alibek, salam!


                    vaaleikuma salam kasym!
                    brother, the younger is obliged to congratulate the elder !!))))))))
              2. +1
                22 January 2013 16: 16
                Quote: Kasym
                Andrey (VOLKAN). "They themselves have not really created anything over the past 20 years."
                Here you are seriously mistaken. Railways (new), roads (new), power plants, assembly of steam locomotives and wagons, cars and helicopters, new capacities in metallurgy, etc., etc. The country's industrialization and social development program (for example, in 2011, 144 new industries were opened - plants and factories, other enterprises) until 2020 - according to our bureaucrats, Kazakhstan should be among the 50 most developed countries in the world (more further). For example, if you have a socially significant project, then you can get a loan at 8% (of which the state will pay 7%, and you only .... 1% per annum). In our example, Russia has created its program for the future. Gold and foreign exchange reserves exceeded $ 80 billion. - This is more than in Russia, if you count per capita.
                "in the USSR, everyone was pulled by the RSFSR, and the rest were attached"
                This is without comment, study the history of the USSR, where there were 6 republics of donors. Kazakhstan has nothing to be ashamed of over the past 20 years.
                Sorry, but in a hurry - I ran to dine.


                My colleague, I am happy for Kazakhstan, much more sincere than many of your fellow tribesmen think. But I spoke first of some global things.
                Well, for example, nuclear power plants. On our own without the involvement of Russian specialists. Or aircraft manufacturing (rocket science) for example. AND?
                As for donor republics and disagreements, I wrote above. But to be honest I express my opinion, I never expect that the inhabitants of the former republics will agree with him. I understand it. There is my opinion, there is the opinion of the Kazakh, Ukrainian, Baltic, etc. And no matter how much I bring any arguments in favor of my point of view, this cannot be proved to anyone. Well, please. I do not prove. I just speak out.
                1. 0
                  22 January 2013 22: 25
                  Quote: volkan
                  Regarding donor republics

                  this is an extremely controversial and very sensitive issue
                  who kept whom and how, it’s very difficult to evaluate many things in terms of money, the same virgin research centers in desert and non-populated areas, Uzbek cotton, etc. etc.
              3. -1
                22 January 2013 22: 22
                Quote: Kasym
                144 new productions were opened - plants and factories

                and in numbers what and how much do these factories produce?
                as a rule, unfortunately, this is a show and nothing more, at one time I remember they launched an enterprise for the production of televisions, a couple were even "produced", they presented one to the nazik, though after they bulldozed it and built a shopping center
                Quote: Kasym
                For example, if you have a socially significant project, then you can get a loan at 8% (of which the state will pay 7%, and you only .... 1% per annum).

                in the talgar they took a loan for construction (restoration on the basis of the branch of the Alma-Ata knitwear) even did the project and bought something there, and thought it was a stalemate ..., well, it’s in FIG
                Quote: Kasym
                Kazakhstan has nothing to be ashamed of over the past 20 years.

                unfortunately there is something to be ashamed of (this is me about industry)
          2. +8
            22 January 2013 11: 36
            Andrey, Denis, have a nice day! I think you do not know the modern history of Baikonur at all.
            1) From 1991 to 1998. Russia paid nothing for the maintenance (rent) of Baikonur, and received money for commercial launches regularly. And where is justice here? Kazakhstan had to independently provide the activities of the spaceport and at the same time a blackout of gas and electricity in the capital (Alma-Ata). How do you like this situation? And no one was whining or hysterical.
            2) Russia, having concluded a long-term contract, does not develop a cosmodrome and a city, does not invest in infrastructure development. After us, even the grass does not grow. It is right ?
            3) Russia does not fulfill its obligations in the Angara, and we have already spent. Is it scam?
            4) Kazakhstan has its own resources and is ready to abandon the lease and even invest in a spaceport. But Russia is not going to meet. Kazakhstan was one of the six donor republics in the USSR, but we, unlike the others, did not claim property that was outside our territory. And we want to approach the cosmodrome in a businesslike way so that it will work a hundred years later.
            In general, on the site, as soon as the speech about Baikonur comes up, the mud starts to pour. But none of the Russians asks the question: "Why is the most loyal ally indignant? Maybe it is worth taking their place and looking at the problem from their bell tower?"
            For me, so let the bureaucrats butt but how much they fit. If only the spaceport worked and brought us all benefits. Baikonur is the pride of the entire Union.
            Denis, I don’t put the cons at all - I try to understand any point of view.
            1. +3
              22 January 2013 12: 01
              I greet everyone, for Kasym, a more reasonable and sober judgment, + to you. The officials of both our country and Russia’s retreats may have been divided, but they’re butting.
            2. -1
              22 January 2013 12: 08
              1) From 1991 to 1998. Russia paid nothing for the maintenance (rent) of Baikonur, and received money for commercial launches regularly. And where is justice here? Kazakhstan had to independently provide the spaceport [at the request of the Kazakh side] and at the same time a blackout of gas and electricity in the capital (Alma-Ata). How do you like this situation? And no one was whining or hysterical.
              2) Russia, having concluded a long-term contract, does not develop a cosmodrome and a city, does not invest in infrastructure development. [So this is your diocese! But weren’t you asking for 115 million dollars a year for these purposes?] After us, though the grass does not grow. It is right ?
              3) Russia does not fulfill its obligations in the Angara, and we have already spent. [Uh-huh. And they banned the launch of the "Angara"] Is it scam?
              4) Kazakhstan has its own resources and is ready to abandon the lease and even invest in a spaceport. But Russia is not going to meet. [Because you have already shown that $ 115 million a year is not enough for you. And what does "invest" mean? Raise the rent and use the same money for development? And who then invests?] Kazakhstan was one of the six donor republics in the USSR, but we, unlike others, did not claim property that was outside our territory. [ And remind, who claimed this and WHAT?] And we want to approach the cosmodrome in a businesslike way so that it will work after a hundred years.
              In general, on the site, as soon as the speech about Baikonur comes up, the mud starts to pour. But none of the Russians asks the question: "Why is the most loyal ally indignant? Maybe it is worth taking their place and looking at the problem from their bell tower?"
              1. +5
                22 January 2013 16: 56
                Anatolia.
                1) "At the request of the Kazakh side". Yeah, you support the infrastructure (electricity, water, electricity, heat) and the life of the city and the cosmodrome, and we will spend the money for the cosmodrome (com. Launches) ourselves.
                2) Read the comments of the Swamp about renting a spaceport. 115 mil. dale go directly to the budget of the city and the spaceport, nothing comes to the budget of Kazakhstan. Baikonur is fully subsidized. How much money do you think it takes to maintain a city and a spaceport with all teachers, doctors, etc.? I WILL REPEAT - KAZAKHSTAN WILL NOT GET ANYTHING FROM THE ACTIVITY OF THE COSMODROM. And Kazakhstan had to maintain the entire economy of the cosmodrome and the city from 91-98 on its own - in the most difficult time. And at first, after the signing of the lease, they received payment in the form of military equipment (for example, Su-27) - but you won’t be fed up with them.
                3) Read Ascetic's comment on the Hangar.
                4) To invest is to spend money on space. projects and make money from it. I write that Kazakhstan is ready to abandon the lease and jointly (on equal terms as partners) with Russia use the spaceport. Kazakhstan wants to participate in this BUSINESS (business), bear risks, invest in R&D by satellites, rocket launchers, etc., and earn money on it. BUT RUSSIA IS NOT READY FOR THIS OR DOESN’T WANT IT.
                1. 0
                  22 January 2013 21: 58
                  1. See below. 2. And for $ 200 million you supplied electricity. Water, heat is an urban economy. 30% of Russian citizens and 70% of Kazakhstan live in the city. From 1991 to 1994, Kazakhstan did not sign anything, wanting 100% control over the spaceport. Commercial launches, as well as rental payments, began in 1994. Military and other equipment was delivered on the basis of an agreement, i.e. gave what you asked. 3. Have you already invested 2 billion? you can recover the losses in court, act in a civilized manner. 4. What equal partnerships are you talking about? Do you have any specialists? Space technology? Technologies? Do you learn in the process of work? Do we need a competitor? And then, it is very similar to the claims of builders and housing and communal services for half of your house built according to your project and maintained. So, you’re right, RUSSIA DOESN’T WANT THIS. And who wants?
                  1. +4
                    23 January 2013 01: 47
                    Sergey, we signed a contract, but began to act in 98g. The first payment came in the form of 3 Su-27. As long as I remember . The rest of your comments are just ... I don’t even want to voice it. Sorry, but I don’t want to discuss with you, because neither history nor economics on this issue ....
                    1. -2
                      23 January 2013 12: 08
                      Quote: Kasym
                      but began to act with 98g. The first payment came in the form of 3 Su-27

                      read the contract, what is written there about payment methods
                      Quote: Kasym
                      Your comments are just ... I don’t even want to voice them. Sorry, but I don’t want to discuss with you, because neither history nor economics on this issue

                      and you apparently know, not a single figure, not a single link to a document or article of the law, discussion at the level of the OBS

                      if the Russian Federation owes for the rental of the complex, then how much and for how long, clearly and in numbers, and everything else is gossip in the bazaar.
                2. 0
                  22 January 2013 23: 14
                  Quote: Kasym
                  15 mil dale go directly to the budget of the city and the spaceport, nothing gets to the budget of Kazakhstan

                  I am simply annoyed when people, puffing their cheeks from their own importance, quote the gossip they heard at the "bazaar" and pass them off as the Truth, for the sake of interest, read the lease agreement for the complex
                  Contract of December 10.12.1994, XNUMX (Moscow, Russian Federation)
                  "CONTRACT FOR LEASE OF THE" BAIKONUR "COMPLEX BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF KAZAKHSTAN AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION"


                  Section 5. Rental and Settlement Procedures

                  5.1. The rent is 115 (one hundred and fifteen) million US dollars per year. Part of the rent can be paid off on a compensation basis as agreed between the Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Government of the Russian Federation. The Lessee does not make other payments, taxes and fees to the Lessor in connection with the use of the Baikonur complex, including for the right to use water resources.

                  5.2. The amount of rent for 1994 is set at 115 million US dollars, regardless of the date of signing of this Agreement. Moreover, the calculation for the first half of 1994 is made no later than 30 days after the entry into force of this Agreement, in the amount of half the annual rent. The remaining amount is repaid within 90 days after the entry into force of this Agreement.

                  5.3. Settlement for rent, starting in 1995, is made by the Lessee on a quarterly basis in equal installments in the amount of one fourth of the annual amount until the 15th day of the first month of the next quarter.

                  The procedure for making mutual settlements on rent is determined by a separate agreement of the Parties.


                  AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE REPUBLIC OF KAZAKHSTAN ON THE STATUS OF THE CITY OF BAIKONUR, THE ORDER OF FORMATION AND THE STATUS OF ITS EXECUTIVE AUTHORITIES

                  GOVERNMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

                  23 December 1995 g


                  Article 12. Financial means of the city of Baikonur

                  1. The financial resources of the city consist of funds from the city budget and extrabudgetary and currency funds formed by the city administration. At the same time, funds from earmarked extra-budgetary funds (pension, social insurance, employment, medical insurance) are not included in the city budget.
                  2. City budget revenues consist of:
                  revenue from the federal budget of the Russian Federation for the maintenance of the city of Baikonur
                  ;
                  receipts from the republican budget of the Republic of Kazakhstan for the provision of benefits provided for by the legislation of the Republic of Kazakhstan to citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan affected by environmental disasters; ...


                  Quote: Kasym
                  How much money do you think it takes to maintain a city and a spaceport with all teachers, doctors, etc.?

                  but why think all the numbers in the public domain -
                  Budget execution of the city of Baikonur on 01.05.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX
                  http://управление-финансов-байконур.рф/statja/analiz
                  -ispolneniya-2012-4 /
                  Results of the audit of the use of the budget of the city of Baikonur for 2011
                  (total amount of subsidies from the federal budget in 2011 1178.6 million rubles)
                  file:///C:/Users/23A4~1/AppData/Local/Temp/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%B5%

                  D0% BD% D1% 82.pdf
            3. +7
              22 January 2013 12: 15
              "Our" and "your" point of view is clear, from the Russians the question is seen precisely as twisting the hands of Russia, on the other hand, Russia is really investing in space, but not as much as Kazakhstan would like, in the third, Russia now has space not in the best condition and pulling two spaceports and in fact three is difficult, but still capable of producing launch vehicles. I draw the conclusion that if you are businesslike, it is easier to build your own, to finance Baikonur on a leftover principle. This is my bell tower, no offense ... Again, there are joint launches in Guiana, there are joint developments with Eurpp, in fact with France, there is a lot of commerce in space. And as for the sticks in the wheels of Ukraine and Kazakhstan, well, something, although Russia's desire is understandable, you yourself are talking about a market economy, here you are ... But no need to harbor illusions, China is developing much faster than the entire post-Soviet space taken together. flies on the same rockets of the USSR of the 60s (in fact), it is very difficult to take out the space industry even together (this is so short). And in general, has anything changed in space launch vehicles since the 60s? Well, please answer.

              I tried to designate my "bell tower" without emotion, no offense friends, we just communicate ...
              1. Yarbay
                +3
                22 January 2013 14: 54
                Quote: klimpopov
                , You yourself are talking about a market economy, here you are ..

                I think the question is not only in market relations !!
                I think there are some promises and agreements that are possibly oral, which we do not know about !!
                Perhaps because of this, one of the parties incurs big losses !!
            4. Yarbay
              +3
              22 January 2013 12: 50
              Quote: Kasym
              In general, on the site, as soon as the speech about Baikonur comes up, the mud starts to pour. But none of the Russians asks the question: "Why is the most loyal ally indignant? Maybe it is worth taking their place and looking at the problem from their bell tower?"

              Totally agree!
            5. DmitriRazumov
              +5
              22 January 2013 14: 20
              Quote: Kasym
              From 1991 to 1998 Russia paid nothing for the maintenance (rent) of Baikonur, and received money for commercial launches regularly.

              Dear Kasym, Russia basically created, supported and developed the spaceport for 35 years. Under the USSR, the launch site was, in fact, a huge military town, respectively, the admission of the local population there was prohibited. Due to personnel, mainly SA officers, a high level of cultural, scientific and technical development was achieved at the cosmodrome.
              In 1991, a disaster occurred. Kazakhstan unilaterally declared the spaceport its property. All restrictions on access control were immediately lifted and the local population, in fact, began the looting of material assets of military units and units. This can only be compared with the Mongol-Tatar invasion. In the city of Leninsk, people were depopulated at home, because officer families began to urgently leave the spaceport. Five-story buildings flew into the air, because looted gas equipment.
              The Kazakh authorities did not have enough funds and skills not only for the operation of numerous means and systems of launch and maintenance, but even for the maintenance of housing and communal services.
              Apparently, at some point, the leadership of Kazakhstan realized that it could lose everything and concluded a long-term lease agreement with the Russian Federation. Again restrictions were introduced on the admission of unauthorized persons to the territory, joint law enforcement bodies were introduced, etc. It was possible to temporarily hold back the wave of looting and preserve what was left.
              In this situation, Nazarbayev should not only require rent, but pay for what he did at Baikonur.
              1. +5
                22 January 2013 18: 27
                Dmitry, and I respect you.
                "Kazakhstan has unilaterally declared the cosmodrome its property." Dmitry, what could we do after the "Slavic get-together" in Belovezhskaya Pushcha? Neither you nor I are to blame for the parade of sovereignties.
                "The local population began to plunder material prices. Military hours and subsections." And the military just looked at it. But seriously, Dmitry, it was all over the republic. Even in the regional centers, I'm not talking about urban settlements and small towns, some houses stood like ghosts. Because the indigenous population is 40% of us. KazSSR. Everyone who could and wanted to left (there were 1 Germans, for example, but about 000 remained). Of the 000 million people, just over 100 million remained. It was a real tragedy. War without war. People survived as best they could. I already wrote that even in the capital there were rolling blackouts of gas and electricity, not to mention small cities. For example, in the city of Arkalyk, water was given several hours a day, and I'm not even talking about hot. And for Baikonur, everyone was allocated, since no one was going to substitute Russia with launches, especially in front of foreigners.
                "The Kazakh authorities did not have enough funds and skills not only for the operation of numerous means and systems for launching and maintaining, but even for the maintenance of housing and communal services." There is a sense of disdain for Kazakhstanis. Type all of you there are lumps, babai and ignoramuses. But if you go deeper, the following fact becomes obvious. The indigenous population mainly lived in rural areas and after the collapse of the USSR, we faced a shortage of qualified personnel (and even so they paid a penny). On the other hand, practically nothing was produced in Kazakhstan. They didn't even make nails, I'm not talking about pipes and other building materials. And now we are assembling cars, locomotives, turntables. We even look closely at planes. Yes, while the assembly, but what the hell is not kidding. We'll have to make rockets. So what, I think, if the Koreans have mastered it, then we can. Only the question is: "Why create competition?" Our ally, friend, brother has it. You need to negotiate - I don't see another way
                "Apparently at some point ...". Kazakhstan from the very beginning asked the Russian leadership to conclude an agreement on Baikonur. But who then had the money? Even Russia asked the IMF for help. And Yeltsin and Putin thanked their hands more than once. Kazakhstan, which were able to save the life of the cosmodrome and the city.
                "In the current situation Naz." Dmitry, here to the point. We are not only ready to refuse rent, but also pay for launches. BUT ONLY TO BE IN BUSINESS ON MUTUALLY FAVORABLE CONDITIONS AND RECEIVE DIVIDENDS FROM THIS. Why not ? Kazakhstan did not twist the hands of Russia, as, for example, Ukraine with its gas transportation system (forgive me the Ukrainians on the website, these are the affairs of politicians). The launches went on and on and will go on. Nazarbayev launches information through specialized bureaucrats, and then edits and negotiates. And I am sure that a compromise will be found.
                1. DmitriRazumov
                  +2
                  23 January 2013 17: 38
                  Quote: Kasym
                  Dmitry, what could we do after the "Slavic get-together" in Belovezhskaya Pushcha? Neither you nor I are to blame for the parade of sovereignties.

                  Here you can not disagree. Of course, the collapse of the Union is a work of hands, first of all, EBN. I am deeply convinced that the absolute majority of the population of the USSR only lost from this division. The collapse was personally beneficial EBN to return to politics any price, no matter what. The country was betrayed, millions of its citizens.
                  When the Soviet leadership decided to build Baikonur in Kazakhstan or to create 3 scientific measuring points (NIP) in Ukraine, no one could even foresee such a future in a nightmare.
                  Of course, it is easy to be a strong back mind. But still, it seems to me that it would be more rational for the Republic of Kazakhstan and other republics to recognize the property of military units as the property of the SA and, accordingly, the RF Armed Forces, not to pull parts of a huge complex system, whose governing bodies. and the body is in the Russian Federation. And then conclude a long-term lease of land, not the Baikonur Cosmodrome, as is done throughout the civilized world. Those republics. have followed this path and are still regularly receiving rents and structures on their territory are functioning properly. Those that are. decided to privatize the facilities, came to their complete degradation and collapse. An example is Ukraine. In the territory of Kotor. It turned out 3 NPCs. Kravchuk, absolutely not understanding the situation, declared them his property, and forced the military to swear an oath to the yellow-block flag. No persuasion by representatives of the Russian Federation had any effect. Ukraine announced the creation of its own space forces and the status of a space power. The result is deplorable. It cannot be expected that by tearing a hand or leg away from the rest of the body, it will live and the body will grow on it by itself. The most sophisticated complexes turned into a pile of iron, and officers who. swore allegiance to Ukraine were fired.
                  1. DmitriRazumov
                    +3
                    23 January 2013 17: 47
                    Quote: DmitriRazumov
                    There is a disregard for the people of Kazakhstan. Like all of you there chocks, babai and ignoramus

                    I did not write this. I respect the Kazakhs. Moreover, my family comes from Petropavlovsk. My grandfather was born in the Cossack village in the North Kazakhstan region. He was in Petropavlovsk several times in his youth, was familiar with some Kazakhs, my grandfather was friends with them. In general, normal people. It seems to me that in one state it would be better, especially since Russia and Kazakhstan have so much in common.
                    1. +2
                      25 January 2013 09: 34
                      Dmitry, welcome +! I'm all for it !!! FOR THE UNION !!! YES YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE, YES AND ANOTHER COSSACK !!! WITH MUCH RESPECT, DAUREN !!!
                    2. 0
                      25 January 2013 11: 09
                      Greetings to all, for Dmitry Razumov, + Dear !!!
            6. 0
              22 January 2013 14: 55
              Kasym, I put the cons in only one case - when the comment is inadequate or provocative. For comments containing reasoned thought, even if it does not coincide with mine, I relate to understanding.
              1) From 91 to 98, ALL the countries of the future CIS were not in the best financial condition.
              2) Almost 1 billion rubles just given to the budget of the city of Baikonur. 1.5 billion for the maintenance of spaceport facilities. And here Kazakhstan still decided to cut the dibs.
              3) The Angara project is being successfully tested, recently there have only been tests of the first (or second, I do not remember) stage.
              4) If Kazakhstan has resources, why raise rents? Why bring a spaceport under your jurisdiction? Why prevent launches?

              Excuse me, but apart from the thought "we need more dough" in the actions of Kazakhstan is not seen.
              1. Yarbay
                +3
                22 January 2013 15: 20
                Quote: Wedmak
                Excuse me, but apart from the thought "we need more money" in the actions of Kazakhstan is not seen


                dough? I do not think so!
                Most likely they want technologies that Russia does not want to give away!
                Dough in Kazakhstan is now heaps!
                1. +1
                  22 January 2013 15: 28
                  What technologies are we talking about? I'm not quite up to date.
                  1. Yarbay
                    +2
                    22 January 2013 15: 47
                    Quote: Wedmak

                    What technologies are we talking about? I'm not quite up to date.


                    I also don’t know for sure, but I think Kazakhstan, having good money, would like to have a space program of its own and probably want to have technology in rocket science!
                    these are my assumptions!
                    1. +2
                      22 January 2013 15: 52
                      This is strange ... I would like - developed. Conditions can be created if there is money, there is a spaceport. I do not think that Russia would begin to impede the Kazakhstan program. It is only at hand for us, to explore the cosmos is a difficult matter.
                      For that matter, we would start with a small one - modernization of the spaceport infrastructure!
                      1. Yarbay
                        +2
                        22 January 2013 16: 03
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        I do not think that Russia would begin to impede the Kazakhstan program

                        Well, who needs a competitor!
                        Tomorrow Kazakhstan will independently launch rockets, Russia will lose part of its orders!
                        this is just my opinion, but I saw that Kazakhstan opened many of its defense enterprises together with other countries, probably Russia did not agree!
                      2. +2
                        22 January 2013 16: 52
                        Well, who needs a competitor!
                        Tomorrow Kazakhstan will independently launch rockets, Russia will lose part of its orders!

                        And here I do not agree. On launches - the field is not plowed! There was somehow information that Baikonur was overloaded with launches, they did not have time to deliver the fuel ... And if further development of the ISS or another similar project goes, then there will be enough work for everyone.
                        And the defense industry is already a completely different field.
                      3. +5
                        22 January 2013 19: 39
                        Alibek, to the very point !!! Recently, access to our subsoil for the "far abroad" countries only through the most modern technologies! For example, the oil company "Chevron" (USA) has undertaken to supply the most modern wind turbines in the Caspian to generate electricity, and to transfer technologies in this production. They have already commissioned a plant for the production of plastic pipes.
                        Denis, why do we need to create competition? If there is this in Russia (Kazakhstan has repeatedly proposed and proposes to develop the space industry together), finished production, capacities, personnel. That is why, living in the CES, to bring down prices to each other - this is not productive.
                      4. 0
                        23 January 2013 10: 43
                        Believe me, I am not against the joint development of the industry, for all the limbs. Only here financing turns out to be one-sided, and constant sticks to the wheels from the side of Kazakhstan - this does not at all seem like cooperation.
                    2. +2
                      22 January 2013 16: 31
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      I also don’t know for sure, but I think Kazakhstan, having good money, would like to have a space program of its own and probably want to have technology in rocket science!
                      these are my assumptions!


                      Strongly agree Alibek +
              2. +4
                22 January 2013 19: 23
                Denis, many years of health to you!
                1) Absolutely centrally (as the VAF likes to say)! Therefore, Kazakhstan did everything for Baikonur to survive. Therefore, no one was whining, he was not satisfied with tantrums, there was no noise in the media in either ours or yours. But it is a fact that Kazakhstan independently got out of the situation.
                2) Not just like that. The city, I repeat, is fully subsidized. And teachers, doctors, children. kindergartens, schools, hospitals, and infrastructure facilities, administration, police, Ministry of Emergencies, etc. etc. . Imagine that this is not all. Yes, then you can’t hold any specialist, he will collect manat and remember his name. And it doesn’t matter ours or yours is special. . And you, Denis, very correctly noticed that the money goes straight to Baikonur. Nothing falls into the budget of Kazakhstan. THAT KAZAKHSTAN DOES NOT SEE ANYTHING FROM SPACE, CITY AND 5000 SQ. KM. EARTH. DO WE HAVE THIS RIGHT OR NO? WHAT DO YOU THINK ? Only we want to earn in space, and not from rent. And the cosmodrome, city and land are ready to be recognized as common property. HOW DO YOU HAVE THIS OPTION?
                3) See Ascetic's comments on the Hangar.
                4) Now is not 1998. . Inflation and depreciation of green papers are not in our competence. I think so .
                "Why display ...? Why obstacle ...?" These threats can only shake the air. I don’t remember Kazakhstan solving problems with creating an interstate crisis, especially with Russia. I will give an example, and I guess that you are hearing about this problem for the first time. Please look at the map of the railways. On a branch that leads to the Far East. When she is with D.V. goes west. You see that she goes to ter. KZ, then on ter. Russia and so on several times. So there you go. etc. when she goes to ter. Russia, then for our cargo the tariff is such that momma do not cry. And for our landlocked country, railways. vital. Yeltsin promised to solve this problem, but he never did. In short, we have built our own railway along our common border. ... Denis, you can imagine how much it costs. There (I don't remember exactly) about 1 km. ... This probably says that Kazakhstan is not a poor country.
                1. 0
                  23 January 2013 10: 51
                  Russia also independently maintained the production of rockets and spacecraft. The option with the public domain is quite legitimate, because nevertheless, this is a legacy of the USSR.
                  And about railway .... well, let's recall all the problems in relations between Kazakhstan and Russia. Here, I think not one typed.
                  But let's solve at least one Baiterek-Angara issue.
                  So, the Angara. Yes, the process of its creation was delayed, not without the help of thieving Roskosmos officials. Nevertheless:

                  The test tests of the structural elements of the Angara launch vehicle have completed. According to the FSUE GKNPTs im. Khrunicheva from 23 on October 2012, in the Federal State Enterprise "Research Center of the RCP" (p. Remmash), tests for cryostatic strength of the structural elements of the promising Angara launch vehicle (LV) (product A5A2C - assembly No. A13) manufactured by FSUE GKNTSP named after M.V. Khrunicheva. " The goal of assembly tests No. А13 was to confirm the strength of the compartment of the launch vehicle of the III stage of the launch vehicle, as well as individual components of the Angara launch vehicle design 3А and 5А.

                  Those. business is moving.
                  Baiterek:
                  As of November 2012, the project for creating the Baiterek joint Russian-Kazakh rocket and space complex (based on the new Angara launch vehicle) was virtually deadlocked. It was not possible to reach a compromise on the issue of financing the project. Russia is likely to build a launch complex for Angara at the new Vostochny spaceport


                  Do you have other data? I am interested in the state of the Baiterek complex at the moment.
            7. +2
              22 January 2013 16: 26
              Kasym,

              A colleague, in general, Kazakhstan itself took responsibility for the maintenance of the facilities. he is now the owner.
              And to be honest, I doubt that in Almaty electricity was cut off because of Baikonur.
              As for infrastructure .. And excuse me, why should we invest in this? WE pay Kazakhstan a rent, which he should direct for development. After all, these are YOUR objects, not OUR. And so it turns out that you offer to pay rent and a ton of money to invest in the infrastructure of the cosmodrome and the city.

              This is the misunderstanding of each other.
              1. +2
                22 January 2013 20: 22
                Andrey, you are probably not familiar with the text of the contract. Read the comment on Swamps.
                Imagine that you have rented an apartment. And there the mixer was broken. And who should repair? So, I write that "after us, even the grass does not grow." With such a policy, nothing will be left of Baikonur. What if the electrical wiring becomes unusable, that we will sit without starts. And nod at each other. They say they are to blame. With your approach, any technique can be ruined.
                Electricity was cut off not because of Baikonur, but because the energy system of our country, the USSR, was arranged in this way. But you must admit, this is an indicator of the state of energy supply in Kazakhstan. Nazarbayev, if he wanted to, could simply turn off the power supply to the cosmodrome or disrupt some kind of international launch. And the reason I would call a lack of capacity. Like, I have a capital and sits without light. But, glory to the Almighty, he never did that. None set up Russia.
            8. 0
              22 January 2013 22: 45
              Quote: Kasym
              From 1991 to 1998 Russia paid nothing for the maintenance (rent) of Baikonur, and received money for commercial launches regularly. And where is justice here? Kazakhstan had to independently provide the activities of the spaceport and at the same time a blackout of gas and electricity in the capital (Alma-Ata). How do you like this situation? And no one was whining or hysterical.

              In the winter - from 1993 to 1994 - the fuel simply ran out in the boiler room - the city was left without heating. In the apartments they put stove stoves, heated themselves, including burners of gas stoves. The fires started.
              Quote: Kasym
              From 1991 to 1998 Russia did not pay anything for the maintenance (rent) of Baikonur

              Well, firstly, the lease agreement dates back to 94 and what about debts, can you indicate the source of information ?!
              Quote: Kasym
              as soon as it comes to Baikonur, immediately the dirt begins to pour

              For the sake of interest, read the comments on the website zakon.kz or rus.azattyq.org on the topic of Baikonur
    2. Jet
      +2
      22 January 2013 16: 21
      so the Kazakhs "ran over")) I read your highly intellectual posts and admired the sobriety of some interlocutors. blackmail means? Or maybe I can give you Baikonur for free? otherwise we "stuck" and demand some money .. separately we can note the usual rudeness in relation to "non-Russians", because in order to assert ourselves on the forum, courage is not needed, is it?
      1. Jin
        +1
        22 January 2013 16: 47
        Quote: Jet
        I read your highly intellectual posts


        Don’t be so upset! As elsewhere, there are different people and opinions. Not the fact that they wanted to insult you! You just won’t write anything, and many words carry different semantic meaning! For the friendship of our peoples! drinks
        1. Jet
          +3
          22 January 2013 23: 04
          Naturally for friendship! We have always been and will be for friendship. Our nationalist sentiments have always been condemned and severely punished. But it’s true that it’s not nice to read some posts, such as creeping up and so on, which carry a definitely offensive load, although I perfectly understand that my words will only frustrate smart people, would you say nothing in my place?) And on the rent account, there is economic feasibility in everything, and every thing, including the spaceport, costs as much as you are willing to pay for it, that's all)
          1. Jin
            +3
            22 January 2013 23: 43
            Quote: Jet
            would you be silent in my place?


            No, I would not say anything! I do not urge to be silent, dear, do not give in to provocations simply! I mean, it is necessary to separate the grains from the chaff, this is a war, an information war, it is a terrible weapon in the current realities, and we are pawns in it, that these are the atoms of the universe. But the world consists of atoms, so that we can’t share, like atoms, this can become an irreversible chain reaction ... an explosion ... stop Together we stand, apart, they will tear us apart ... our enemy is NATO and K, and not we are each other !!! drinks
            1. 0
              25 January 2013 11: 18
              For the genie,
              “Together we will stand, we will be torn apart ... our enemy is NATO and K, not we are each other !!!” - I keep repeating this too, but provocateurs appear, no matter where, and begin to trend and insult.
              And so I agree with you, we will one by one tear us like a hot-water bottle, and together we are POWER !!!! drinks
      2. +2
        22 January 2013 17: 02
        Quote: Jet

        so the Kazakhs "ran over")) I read your highly intellectual posts and admired the sobriety of some interlocutors. blackmail means? Or maybe I can give you Baikonur for free? otherwise we "stuck" and demand some money .. separately we can note the usual rudeness in relation to "non-Russians", because in order to assert ourselves on the forum, courage is not needed, is it?


        Well, Kazakhs like you are running over (and read the posts of Kasym ... calm and without a national show off) ... Put the phrase “GIVE BAIKONUR” in your post?
        And what do you want me to answer?
        And I have only one answer ...... THAT FOR THE DEFINITION OF CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES THAT YOURS WERE NOT BECAME YOURSELF NOT YOUR SERVICE.

        And why ... let's go go? ... What are these provocative phrases for? any Russian you can answer this phrase quite sharply.
        And the fact that at the moment the talk about increasing the rent is like some kind of blackmail, because we have nowhere to go ... so it seems sorry. What exactly in the last couple of years has the issue of Baikonur escalated so much?
        Is it not because the leadership of Kazakhstan understands that the Russians will go to the East ... and no one will pay them anything more for Baikonur. So they are trying to snatch more for the remaining time ... aren't they?
        1. Jin
          +1
          22 January 2013 19: 00
          volcano,

          Andryukha, I agree, but the fact is that we are here arguing, swearing, and the "tops" wanted to poop on us and chop cabbage, there is already a rustle! in fact, we are arguing in vain with our Kazakh colleagues, not even that we are cursing, arguing, quarreling, etc. ...
        2. Jet
          0
          22 January 2013 23: 08
          You have only one answer: what’s yours, it’s always yours, no matter where it is, I understood that. And that in everything that happens solely your merit. And we just need to grab.
          1. -2
            23 January 2013 00: 01
            Jet,
            Well, what ?, I understood correctly.
            And if such friendships, then they would have taken and presented, but not in life, you would rather be strangled
  14. -1
    22 January 2013 10: 59
    How much everyone wants "coolness". Bent "fingers like a fan", and then come what may. Childhood diseases of young republics who want to "scare" the country that gave birth to them. Nobody wants to learn from the mistakes of others, now Kazakhs; well, we, I think, will survive. And they ... we'll wait until they crawl back. It is difficult to survive alone.
    1. Jet
      +2
      22 January 2013 16: 26
      bravo!) "crawl back"?))))) admires such an artistic style and humanly feel sorry for you
      1. Jin
        0
        22 January 2013 16: 59
        Quote: Jet
        bravo!) "crawl back"?


        Colleague! Well, I didn’t just write you a post above! I’m not a lawyer, I’ll make a reservation right away!))) Just for sure, Sinbad means our relations
        governments, not peoples, do not take everything at your own expense!
        1. Jet
          +3
          22 January 2013 23: 14
          Dear Jin, I do not take this personally, but the one-sided point of view of some people runs counter to basic common sense. In this case, the statement of Musabaev was more likely to be politically motivated, in the backstage subtleties of which only dedicated people understand. Nevertheless, Baikonur in fact can and should be the subject of bargaining, and there is nothing indecent in this, do you agree?
          1. -4
            23 January 2013 00: 04
            Jet,
            "Nomad" logic, what? your horse?, but now I have it, if you want, buy it back
          2. Jin
            +2
            23 January 2013 10: 31
            Quote: Jet
            should be a subject of bargaining, and there is nothing indecent in this, do you agree?


            Yes, I agree, but reasonable bargaining! Here you can’t chop off your shoulder, you need a compromise
  15. 0
    22 January 2013 11: 14
    Probably it will be cheaper to build your own spaceport, unless of course this matter is entrusted to Serdyukov or his friends bully . And so it’s necessary to leave - let the Kazakhs throw up their slippers on Baikonur hi
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 11: 34
      Already under construction - East.
  16. +9
    22 January 2013 11: 14
    Quote: Wedmak
    I thought later they would ... and at least somehow argue their cons.

    Cons, we compensate without their arguments - a plus. For with arguments it will be weak.

    According to representatives of Kazakhstan, this is due to the fact that the Russian side stubbornly does not want to come to a common solution to this issue.

    Calls for general decisions are increasingly being heard, though these decisions are always one-sided - you build, maintain, upgrade, pay rent, and naturally do not claim rights, because you have only obligations.
    So it was with the objects of Russia in Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, now Kazakhstan has also increased.
    We have somehow forgotten that Russia is the only successor to the USSR — this is enshrined in relevant international documents. Nobody from the former post-Soviet republics wanted to pay the USSR debts together. Then they rushed - where to place our embassies, where our part of the gold reserve, etc .................
    With such neighbors, in the "garden", you need to act as a neighbor - to harvest and move to more "productive lands", which is, your own "garden" - the territory of Russia. And the neighbors, let them take excursions, along the wreckage of their technical civilization, former jobs and other old "free charms".
  17. nnnnnn
    +3
    22 January 2013 11: 16
    Quote: volkan
    Now the Kazakhs will attack and will say that we all do not understand that. It is about equal partnership. And here we are all some kind of nationalists. Ha ha. The story of Baikonur is pure blackmail and 1. An attempt to earn more money 2. To touch the cosmic powers and have a delicious gesheft with it. But somehow the Kazakhs are doing something wrong

    The Government of Kazakhstan has coordinated the plans for spacecraft launches submitted by the Russian side for 2013 within the framework of the federal space program of Russia for 2006-2015, the federal target program "Maintenance, development and use of the GLONASS system for 2012-2020", as well as programs of international cooperation and commercial projects.

    In addition, a plan was agreed for launches of military spacecraft, as well as test missile launches, provided that the Russian side conducted a preliminary flight of the settlements of Kazakhstan over which the PC-18 rocket flight route passes, with the participation of representatives of the Ministry of Emergencies of Kazakhstan and other interested state bodies of the republic.

    At the same time, it is noted that launches of spacecraft, providing for the use of a new area of ​​impact of separating parts of carrier rockets of the Soyuz type, can be carried out after the signing and entry into force of the relevant international treaty. In addition, the use of the Proton-M launch vehicle for spacecraft launches in 2013 is agreed in the number of no more than 12 (two rockets less than was agreed in 2012). This number of missiles is allowed taking into account the implementation of the Agreement between Kazakhstan and Russia on the development of cooperation on the effective use of the Baikonur complex dated January 9, 2004 in terms of the gradual reduction in the operation of launch vehicles using highly toxic propellant components.

    We add that in 2013 about 30 space launches are planned from Baikonur. In addition, the number of launches of Soyuz rockets can significantly increase and the Proton-M rocket can be actively exploited.
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 11: 45
      With one hand they sign development contracts, with the other they demand money, but more, more!
  18. anchonsha
    -1
    22 January 2013 11: 18
    The Kazakh national elite wants to play in their own way. The moment has come for them to feel "freedom", but their own stupidity in using this freedom (as well as our swamp liberals and fagots) always leads to the impoverishment of their people.
  19. Napalm
    0
    22 January 2013 11: 31
    Hello, and I was in the late 90s on Baikonur a lot of empty houses. I liked the city itself. Does anyone know how it is now?
    1. -2
      22 January 2013 14: 10
      Napalm,
      * left there now
    2. InkGrey
      +3
      22 January 2013 17: 44
      Now much better than in the late 90s. In everyday terms, in general, there are not so many problems - the bullshit Internet is not painful for a large selection of products in stores (but this is because the city is small, you can’t bring everything in).
      They try to ennoble wastelands - there are almost none left in the city, all the public gardens and so on.
      On the other hand, people do not want to linger here. Nevertheless, the country is different, no matter what they say - and this is the majority of problems. What will happen in the future no one knows.
      1. Jin
        0
        22 January 2013 21: 22
        Quote: InkGrey
        On the other hand, people do not want to linger here. Nevertheless, the country is different, no matter what they say - and this is the majority of problems. What will happen in the future no one knows.


        Man, what’s oppressing people? what Seriously, I'm not kidding. I don’t even know how to ask something more precisely ... Well, maybe the atmosphere is depressing, or the relationships of others? After all, the country is different, but not so far request
        1. InkGrey
          +1
          23 January 2013 19: 19
          Strong enough - that the majority of the population are Kazakhs from the region. Cultural guys aren’t sick, although of course there are exceptions. Plus 2 villages from the north and south-west of the city. In the summer, the second village also loves to get naughty. This is unpleasant when a couple of dozens of morons rush through the city. The police are rushing after them, but nevertheless there is some danger.
  20. +12
    22 January 2013 12: 07
    In general, I am not against the lease of Baikonur by Russia, I think that the lease price should also be acceptable. But Russia should also invest in Baikonur. And I will also say that after the Proton launches, we have a strong wind for three days in Kyzylorda. I don’t think that there will be a break in relations specifically on Baikonur, Russia does not need this, and especially Kazakhstan. Agree.

    Yes, and I wanted to say that forum users do not need to insult their closest neighbor, who covers the southern borders of Russia from any trash. And it’s wrong.
    1. Jin
      +4
      22 January 2013 13: 17
      Quote: Bekzat
      Yes, and I wanted to say that forum users do not need to insult their closest neighbor, who covers the southern borders of Russia from any trash. And it’s wrong.


      I can say for my comments, believe me, I do not want to offend the Kazakhs or Kazakhstan itself in any way, but this applies more to those in power. I do not think that the overwhelming majority of forum users have something against Kazakhstan, they just annoy such attacks on the part of some politicians and their non-recognition of the obvious .... I do not think, dear, that ordinary people will benefit from this, that is we are with you! In addition, if you read it, there are attacks against Russia, someone is persistently trying to suggest that Russia is weak and can’t do anything. sad , here with these I bite.
      1. Yarbay
        +2
        22 January 2013 13: 49
        Quote: Jin
        I can say for my comments, believe me, I in no way want to offend the Kazakhs or Kazakhstan itself

        We know you well and know your human qualities, which many will envy!
        But the question is different, do you know all the circumstances on this issue!
        It seems to me Kasym sensibly painted the possible causes of the problem!
        What do you think?!!

        Quote: Jin
        In addition, if you read it, there are attacks against Russia, someone is persistently trying to suggest that Russia is weak and can’t do anything, and I bite with those.
        this man who says so is a cheap Armenian provocateur from a vasconapat site !!
        1. aray
          0
          22 January 2013 14: 03
          Quote: Yarbay
          this man who says so is a cheap Armenian provocateur from a vasconapat site !!

          Voskanapat about the Russian resource. And I myself am a Russophile. I have a lot in common with Russia. And I am a citizen of this country. I only said that it’s real. And I don’t fly in the clouds, torturing myself with the illusions that Russia is okay. We a lot of problems and I must say the way it really is. And do not fool yourself with false illusions. This led to the loss of the radar.
          I do not engage in provocation. But here you are, a real scammer. laughing

          Quote: Yarbay
          We know you well and know your human qualities, which many will envy!

          I forgot to add, also lysoblyud)))
          1. Yarbay
            -1
            22 January 2013 14: 11
            Quote: Aray
            -also and lysoblyud)))

            bastards in your family and you are famous for this !!)))))))))
            Quote: Aray
            Voskanapat about the Russian resource

            cheap pro-Armenian resource!
          2. Jin
            +3
            22 January 2013 14: 34
            Quote: Aray
            I forgot to add, also lysoblyud)))


            Listen man! I see you here for the first time, and Alibek on the site for a long time and deservedly !!! You do not pour dirt on him, you are our citizen! am
            I have read his comments more than once and participated in discussions; he certainly doesn’t deserve such plodding !!!
            1. aray
              -4
              22 January 2013 14: 50
              Quote: Jin
              You do not pour dirt on him, you are our citizen!

              I answer, man!
              Now YOU listen to me. I just answered the insult. And it’s violet to me who Alibek is and who you are. If you think that I will not answer the insult, you are mistaken.
              1. Jin
                +1
                22 January 2013 15: 00
                Quote: Aray
                I answer, man!


                You are rude and therefore it’s violet to you, what kind of people are on this site and who they are! You need to respond to insults, but pouring dirt is not the answer!
                1. aray
                  -1
                  22 January 2013 15: 07
                  Quote: Jin
                  You are hamlo and therefore you are violet

                  You do not go to the person.
                  And in general, I didn’t even notice him until he started pouring dirt on me here. If you have tight eyes, put on glasses. And read his posts. And if this is your dog, then take him away from me. I have nothing to share. It is now clear?
                  1. Jin
                    0
                    22 January 2013 15: 21
                    Quote: Aray
                    s do not go to the person.


                    You switched to them.

                    Quote: Aray
                    It is now clear?


                    With you everything is clear to me! I read posts and I can’t understand one thing. Have you decided to quarrel with everyone here, or are you expressing your thoughts in such a way that they understand you wrong?
                    1. aray
                      -2
                      22 January 2013 15: 30
                      Quote: Jin
                      You switched to them.


                      Find this post here. And read it. Read it carefully. Then answer-what has this post Ebay in common with this article. (By the way, this is his first post where he begins to pursue)
                      And you, in general, it’s not clear to me what you need? Are you his lawyer? Or do you have some kind of brotherhood here, they say? So I don’t mind. Just leave me alone. Is it difficult?

                      Quote: Yarbay
                      and does the representative of Armenia say that?
                      Are you the most faithful allies ??)))))))))
                      start with yourself criticism and outrage))))))))

                      Secretary of the National Security Council of Armenia: in 2012, cooperation with NATO was successful


                      Under the chairmanship of the Secretary of the National Security Council of Armenia, Artur Baghdasaryan, the 19th meeting of the interagency commission for coordination of the events stipulated by the Armenia-NATO Individual Partnership Action Program was held on January 8. As the NSS press service told REGNUM news agency, speaking at the meeting, Baghdasaryan, in particular, stated that in 2012 Armenia-NATO cooperation was successful: 120 of the planned 152 actions were fully implemented.
                      “Our interaction with NATO covers the spheres of security, emergencies, police, national security services, and all the measures envisaged by the program have been fully implemented by these agencies. I would especially like to note the fact that NATO gave a positive assessment of the strategic review of work in the security forces and the transformations carried out in them meet international criteria, "the secretary of the NSS of Armenia said.

                      Details: http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1614962.html#ixzz2IQyap13N
                      1. Jin
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 16: 19
                        Quote: Aray
                        Find this post


                        Listen, what are you all pushing against? I tell you about my posts and about what I write. And with me you have become personal. About the brotherhood .... you are probably right. Do you know how many vagrants and starvations? And people who post for a long time and in the topic, sooner or later arouse respect and when slops are poured on their heads, it’s unpleasant to endure it, at least ... No, I’m not a lawyer, he’s quite capable of answering for himself, as has happened more than once! Do you think this is the first smart here?
                      2. aray
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 16: 27
                        Quote: Jin
                        I see you here for the first time

                        This is where you went to you!
                        Read it again. Before that, we spoke to you. You're lying.
                        I don’t know how Alibek earned your respect, it’s your business, but that doesn’t mean that I should respect him either!
                        Truncated !?
                        He’s sitting in my bathhouse. So, let's close the topic. Because it’s not nice to talk about a person who is absent and cannot answer.)
                        I am against you, I have nothing. And how many times you stood up for yourself, then this is also your business. Well done, that I could.
                        The conversation is over!
                      3. Jin
                        +2
                        22 January 2013 18: 27
                        Quote: Aray
                        This is where you went to you!


                        Listen, after all these inscriptions, it will be YOU and an absolute phlegmatic. We are not about the transition to YOU, but about the transition to personalities, as I understood before that they said ... so that you accused me of nothing ... I also have nothing personal against you, but let's take a closer look at the topic posts ... And why are you like "You're lying ... Usek ?!" What is the voice acting? I talked with you here with arguments, and not with "fingers" and rudeness, you think I'm not in the subject? You are wrong) By the way, for all the time, I thrashed you only one minus (maybe two, I won't lie) ...
                      4. +3
                        22 January 2013 19: 24
                        Quote: Jin
                        Listen, after all these inscriptions, it will be YOU and an absolute phlegmatic. We are not about the transition to YOU, but about the transition to personalities, as I understood before that they said ... so that you accused me of nothing ... I also have nothing personal against you, but let's take a closer look at the topic posts ... And why are you like "You're lying ... Usek ?!" What is the voice acting? I talked with you here with arguments, and not with "fingers" and rudeness, you think I'm not in the subject? You are wrong) By the way, for all the time, I thrashed you only one minus (maybe two, I won't lie) ...

                        Dear Aray and Jin, do not swear out of the blue. The goal of Yardai on this site is to quarrel and pit Armenians and Russians. He is cunning, but then you should be smarter.
                        And it just doesn’t belong to the Baikonur theme - this is the territory of Kazakhstan. If Azerbaijan justified its refusal of the presence of Russians by alliance with Armenia, then Kazakhstan probably has purely economic interests, so the question is only in price, not friendship.
                        Although, of course, who does not want to have their own spaceport. smile
                      5. Jin
                        +1
                        22 January 2013 21: 26
                        Quote: Hairy Siberian
                        Dear Aray and Jin


                        If you read the posts carefully ... although of course not, otherwise you would not have written what you are writing about, with all due respect ... I didn’t minus, although I wanted to, because if you advise, you’ll even get to the bottom of the matter, otherwise you don’t what for stop
                      6. 0
                        22 January 2013 22: 13
                        Jin
                        Yes, apparently one of the recipients of my koment. I chose the wrong. Well, everything can happen.
                        With all due respect ... I didn’t plus, although I didn’t want to.
                      7. Jin
                        +2
                        22 January 2013 22: 25
                        Quote: Hairy Siberian
                        I didn’t plus, although I didn’t want to.


                        Man, I didn’t quite understand what you were talking about, but nonetheless ... There, in posts, it’s not a quarrel of nations, I am grateful for your opinion, but there it’s a little different, no offense drinks
                      8. +1
                        22 January 2013 22: 36
                        Quote: Jin
                        Man, I didn’t quite understand what you were talking about, but nonetheless ... There, in posts, it’s not a quarrel of nations, I am grateful for your opinion, but there it’s a little different, no offense

                        Yes, I'm not offended by you. This is not my offense. Sorry if not in the subject wrote. It’s just that the comments of Armenians are constantly being deleted, apparently I missed something. drinks
        2. Jin
          +3
          22 January 2013 14: 26
          Quote: Yarbay
          We know you well and know your human qualities, which many will envy!


          Hi Alibek! Thank you for your kind words, dear, nice and mutual!

          It seems to me Kasym sensibly painted the possible causes of the problem!
          What do you think?!!


          He is right in his own way and most importantly objective! Of the part, I agree with him.
        3. Jin
          +3
          22 January 2013 14: 54
          Quote: Yarbay
          We know you very well


          Hi Alibek! Thank you dear, mutually !!!

          Quote: Yarbay
          It seems to me Kasym sensibly painted the possible causes of the problem!


          Yes, sensible and most importantly objective! In part, I agree with him, but not in everything.
      2. +5
        22 January 2013 14: 06
        In general, in my opinion, the problem is much broader .... In some ways, the position of Kazakhstan is wrong, in some ways they may be right ... But there is nothing stable in the world, the political leadership of Kazakhstan will change and who will come to power? America does not spare money on weakening Russia ... So my opinion is that you need to build your own spaceport, and lease relations .... It's like in business: you made repairs on the premises, you got a rent right away, and the more you invested funds, the higher they raise ... Well, something like that in my opinion ...
      3. +1
        22 January 2013 18: 18
        FOR EVGENIA, + YOU !!!
    2. +10
      22 January 2013 13: 59
      But Russia should invest in Baikonur

      Tell me, when are you renting an apartment (for a month, for a year) (not you, Bekzat, generally in general), in addition to rent, you also make repairs in this apartment at your own expense, you buy furniture, household appliances, etc., and then leave it all to the owner? Right, no! This is a voluntary matter! Russia doesn’t need to build a strange city, since in Soviet times we rebuilt many cities with all the infrastructure. But Kazakhstan should invest in Baikonur just for the simple reason that it is our Kazakhstan city. And the money for renting a spaceport, you need not spend on jeeps, but on the development of the city’s infrastructure and other needs. And screaming that Russia, something else there owes us, is obliged, etc. it’s not necessary, Russia regularly pays a lot of money, but how to maintain and develop the city and where to invest there are already our problems, not Russia!
      As for the fact that we are covering the southern borders of Russia ... Well, I don’t know, in principle, yes, we have such a strong army, especially border guards. Only in our Kazakhstani army do terminators serve who can single-handedly shoot the entire frontier guard in the amount of 15 people ... It’s scary to imagine how our army will cover the southern borders of Russia if it’s not conscripted Kalash boys, but professionals thugs ...
      And if without irony and sarcasm, fools are all these bureaucrats and politicians who, because of some kind of grandmothers, are happy with such a bother ... You can’t make all the money, and spoil the relations that have developed between our peoples for centuries, and not in the worst way can be easily, at least at the official level. More common projects need to be created, such as a single ec-go space, then there will be less to share! drinks
      1. +6
        22 January 2013 14: 09
        From the lease ...
        Article 3
        Rental purposes
        3.1. The Baikonur complex is used by the Lessee for the following:
        - civil and defense missile and space programs of the Russian Federation;
        - joint space projects of the Russian Federation, the Republic of Kazakhstan and other states - participants of the Commonwealth of Independent States;
        - international space programs and commercial space projects.
        3.2. To ensure a high level of space research and related programs, the Lessee maintains and develops the material, technical, technological and research base of the Baikonur complex, and also carries out, with the participation of the Lessor, the maintenance and development of the material, technical and technological base of the supporting infrastructure.
        3.3. To ensure the necessary conditions for the functioning of the "Baikonur" complex, the Lessee, with the participation of the Lessor, supports and develops the social sphere and infrastructure of the city of Leninsk and the supporting facilities of the Baikonur complex.
        Lease terms
        6.2. The lessee carries out current, major repairs and reconstruction of the leased objects at his own expense.
        When the Lessee returns objects and property after the lease expires, they are returned to the Lessor in a condition suitable for use, taking into account the degree of actual depreciation established by depreciation (operational) standards.
        In the event that the term of depreciation (operation) of individual leased objects and property expires during the term of this Agreement, as well as in the event of their failure or destruction due to the Lessee’s fault, the latter has the right to exclude the said objects and property with a joint act from the composition of leased objects and property. The depreciation periods of leased buildings, structures and property are determined by their technical and operational documentation.
        More details: http: //adilet.zan.kz/rus/docs/U950002195_
      2. +5
        22 January 2013 14: 12
        First, let's not confuse completely different concepts, such as:
        the right to use a strategic object located on the territory of a foreign state, the procedure for which is governed by individual international agreements;
        с
        commonplace civil lease relations of the parties ....

        Secondly, do you at least know how and in what form RK receives "rent" payments?
    3. 0
      22 January 2013 14: 13
      Quote: Bekzat
      After the Proton launches, we have a strong wind in Kyzylorda for three days.

      Yeah, and the milk in the boobs is souring, and there were wild winds when the landfill was just being built, and the Protons didn't smell laughing
      Conscripts in demob albums instead of an epigraph wrote: "There is an ass on the map, this is Kazakhstan, and a hole on the ass, is Tyura-Tam", who does not know, Tyura, there is a railway. polygon station laughing
      1. DmitriRazumov
        +1
        22 January 2013 16: 03
        When I was there, they said that Baikonur in Kazakh means - "among the winds", Tyura there - "an abandoned grave".
        1. +3
          22 January 2013 16: 20
          Quote: DmitriRazumov
          When I was there, they said that Baikonur in Kazakh means - "among the winds", Tyura there - "an abandoned grave".

          Baikonir-Rich Valley.
          Toretam is a sacred place, in honor of the saint, there is a grave.
        2. +2
          22 January 2013 18: 28
          FOR DMITRY, THERE IS TRANSLATED AS AN HONORARY PLACE, YOU AS A "KNOWING" MY LANGUAGE SHOULD BE SHAME WHEN A GUEST COMES TO US (IT IS NOT IMPORTANT WHAT NATION IS OR FAITH, ETC.) IT'S ALWAYS ALWAYS "ALWAYS" ", NOTING ITS IMPORTANCE.
      2. 0
        22 January 2013 18: 25
        FOR AN OLD ROCKETER, DEAR, YOU ARE OLD ARMY GENERAL AND SO JOKING ?! COMPLETELY, COMRADE OF THE GENERAL, INSIGNING LITTLE BECAUSE I AM IT DRINKED MILK AND DEW.
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 19: 50
          Bekzat,
          I didn’t want to insult anyone and I don’t want to, we all drank it, and the irony must be taken correctly
    4. +4
      22 January 2013 16: 51
      Quote: Bekzat
      Yes, and I wanted to say that forum users do not need to insult their closest neighbor, who covers the southern borders of Russia from any trash. And it’s wrong.


      very sensible thought. For myself, I can say that I have no intention of insulting anyone. It is noteworthy that disputes with Kazakh colleagues are mainly in Baikonur. And it is noteworthy that the Russians quite sharply take all the issues of the Kazakh side in which the money appears. And it’s also noteworthy that the Kazakhs are starting to quite aggressively assert ... I don’t even know how to express myself ..... that we (Russians) are fundamentally wrong.

      And the truth, as always, is somewhere in between.
      Yes, Russians have imperial thinking. and nothing can be done about it. But imperial is not in its destructiveness, but in creativity ... At least I see it this way ... And against the background of how the Russians began to unfairly drive and oppress from everywhere after the collapse of the USSR. As they began to call us invaders. freeloaders. how each republic began to assert that here it fed the Union. What if not for them, then hoo ... but I still remember it. I think we need to understand this.
      We Russians got burnt on all YOU BROTHERS in the Union 20 years ago. now we need to be careful. And those republics that still want to maintain good-neighborly relations should somehow also forgive me to understand that TRUST must now be earned .... as if .... maybe it sounded offensive, but I think so. And at the stage of birth and strengthening this trust, all the talk about "pay more" and the like .... I will tell you honestly cut the ear.

      Well, we will leave with Baikonur, what will happen to him? He will die ... forever ... Kazakhstan will not pull him .... Neither money, nor technology ... so why raise the question. After all, he is certainly not at a loss to Kazakhstan.

      So it goes. Kazakhs come to the site and speak Russian, but why are you? we are together ... we are ... brothers .... And slowly, the leadership of Kazakhstan, then in Turkey, hints at the language, sometimes it goes to the Latin alphabet, then (and more recently, more and more) people are talking about Baikonur. And we (Russians) are starting to wonder if Kazakhstan’s brain is soaring to us?
      It’s clear with Ukraine
      It’s clear with Belarus
      But it’s not entirely clear with you .... You are with us or ........
      1. +5
        22 January 2013 18: 33
        FOR THE VOLCANO, I WILL SAY FOR YOURSELF: YES I AM WITH YOU, I LEARNED AND DEW IN RUSSIAN, ME SOME OF MY CITIES ARE NAMED THAT: ORYS (RUSSIAN). SIMPLE RESIDENTS ALSO WANT TO BE WITH RUSSIA (OFTEN I HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE AND SOMETIMES I ASK THEIR OPINION), BUT YOU HAVE noticed, OURSELVES OURSELVES TO YOU ONLY. And ABOUT BAIKONUR, HERE RELATED TO ALL, THE RETAILS, OR OTHER MONEY UNDERSTANDED, HERE AND TRADING.
        1. Jin
          +4
          22 January 2013 21: 47
          Quote: Bekzat
          More often, OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS YOUR ONLY AFTER YOUR BEGINNING BEGIN,


          Bekzat, do not equal us, Russians, all in some non-equats! It's a request. drinks The site has a lot of interesting, educated people with whom it is interesting to talk, without slipping to insults and mutual hostility ... With whom you can chat and find out for yourself a lot of new and useful IMHO!
          1. +3
            22 January 2013 21: 58
            Quote: Jin
            The site has a lot of interesting, educated people with whom it is interesting to talk, without slipping to insults and mutual hostility ... With whom you can chat and find out for yourself a lot of new and useful IMHO!


            good и +!!!
            1. Jin
              +1
              22 January 2013 22: 14
              Apollo,

              I am glad that I am not alone in this opinion, ATP for your understanding and support, I think this is only for the good! As I was taught in the 90s: "It's not a problem to rock the market, the problem is to hush it up" This means that it is always more difficult to create, but to wave a sword ... In short, to break is not to build
              1. +2
                22 January 2013 22: 34
                Quote: Jin
                I am glad that I am not alone in this opinion, ATP for your understanding and support, I think this is only for the good! As I was taught in the 90s: "It's not a problem to rock the market, the problem is to hush it up" This means that it is always more difficult to create, but to wave a sword ... In short, to break is not to build


                Definitely, I fully and completely support you, Eugene !!! hi drinks
      2. Jin
        +1
        22 January 2013 21: 38
        Quote: volkan
        And the truth, as always, is somewhere in between.


        Andrey, this is very frank and to the point! Krasava! + In the sense that there is no falsehood and bias, IMHO ... You do not show anyone in the best light, neither Russians nor Kazakhs. Sound reasoning for general judgment, without insults and other blizzards. I read your comments on this site and in many ways you are right. Personally, I am not going to quarrel with the Kazakh members of the forum because of what our "top" are doing, many good people can be wrongfully insulted! Well, what else can you say about it? Keep it up and laugh in the subject! Well, it's not about rzhachka, of course, it's a matter of it, it's so simple, it's intertwined into rhyme. drinks
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 22: 55
          Jin,
          Thanks for your kind words drinks
      3. Marek Rozny
        0
        25 January 2013 12: 17
        Quote: volkan
        slowly the leadership of Kazakhstan, then in Turkey hints at the language, now it goes to the Latin alphabet, then (and more recently, more and more) people are talking about Baikonur

        1) The titular peoples of Kazakhstan and Turkey consider themselves to be related Turkic peoples. At the meetings of the heads of the Turkic-speaking states, the presidents address each other - "brother" ("My brother Nursultan", "My brother Islam", etc.). Our peoples in any official document are called fraternal ("Turkey provides military-technical assistance to fraternal Kazakhstan", etc.). We have one religion, we have a Turkic language (although there are different dialects), we cultivate the worship of the same historical ancestors in our society (despite the fact that the Turks as a whole do not genetically have a real relation to the legendary nomads of Eurasia). Turkey really helped Kazakhstan and other Turkic states not in words, but in deeds at the very beginning of their formation. I am deeply grateful to Turkey for the real assistance provided to Kazakhstan in the most difficult 90s. And instead of stupidly shitting on the relations of the Kazakhs with the Turks, Russia would better take advantage of this in its own interests and in the interests of the future of the Eurasian space. It is time to entice Turkey to our side, they understand that they will never get to the EU, but the Eurasian Union is of great interest to them. Turks are a nation as imperial as the Russians and Kazakhs. They quickly grasped the essence of the idea and they like this idea. So why not strengthen the Russia-Kazakhstan-Belarus link with this country? The Eurasian Union can get more than enough benefits from Turkey. Stop living in the 18th century, when they fought with the Turks (especially since it was not the Turks who climbed into Russia, but quite the opposite). And with all this Turkic rhetoric, Kazakhstan unequivocally and openly calls Russia and the CIS countries - the main reference point of its policy. And we are not jealous when Russia hugs Bulgarians or Serbs. You are also talking about brotherhood with them (although these countries have never shown much friendliness towards Russia in their politics, strange but true).
        2) Again this Latin alphabet annoys you. Read all the articles on this topic on the site. There, Kazakhs have already written a hundred times why an ordinary Kazakh wants to switch to the Latin alphabet. This is for you the Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet - "Russian letters" and "politics". And for the Kazakhs (more precisely, for the Kazakh language), it is just an alphabet, and it is also inconvenient in modern conditions. The Kazakh version of the Cyrillic alphabet does not evoke any association with the policy towards Russia. Less, kazergi of the Bulgarian Cyrillic bizdin tilimizge zharamaydy. Latin alippes - kadikisiz bolashaktyn cossack tilinin negizi. And what I wrote now in Kazakh is clear to you? How much will the transition of the Kazakh language to the Latin language infringe the Russian speakers? But the Russian media are building up the situation, claiming that this fact will infringe on the rights of Russian Kazakhstanis and cause an outflow of the population from Kazakhstan. Sorry, but they are not able to read the Kazakh sentence, even in Cyrillic. Who cares what modern alphabet the Kazakhs use for their utilitarian purposes?
        3) About Baikonur - exclusively Russian jambs. The Kazakhs did not violate any clause of the agreement and did not make podlyanki. Roscosmos simply hysterical, in order to gain time and not allow both parties to discuss the future of the cosmodrome normally.
    5. 0
      23 January 2013 21: 54
      Quote: Bekzat
      And I will also say that after the Proton launches, we have a strong wind for three days in Kyzylorda.

      Etozhzhzhzh what power takes off, as soon as the orbit of the planet does not collapse !? belay
      smiled, so smiled. laughing
      It turns out that the Gulf of Mexico, all storm squalls and tornadoes in the south of the United States is all the fault in the center of them. KENEDY.
  21. 0
    22 January 2013 13: 28
    The situation as the Gabala radar ... Kazakhs break off.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      25 January 2013 11: 44
      Tell me what exactly do Kazakhs want?
  22. nnnnnn
    +2
    22 January 2013 13: 51
    anchonsha,
    Quote: anchonsha
    The Kazakh national elite wants to play in their own way. The moment has come for them to feel "freedom", but their own stupidity in using this freedom (as well as our swamp liberals and fagots) always leads to the impoverishment of their people.

    Well, at least ours play their own way and want to return the money invested in the "Baiterek" project, and their names are Kazakh, but what about your elite?
    Roman Abramovich, The billionaire entrepreneur bought Chelsea Football Club.

    Alisher Usmanov, a billionaire, entrepreneur, bought the Arsenal football club.

    Suleiman Kerimov, billionaire, entrepreneur, bought the Anji football club.

    Leonid Fedun, a billionaire co-owner of Lukoil, bought the Spartak football club.

    Oleg Deripaska, the billionaire owner of Rusal, bought the Kuban football club.

    Anton Zingarevich, son of Boris Zingarevich, a billionaire businessman, owner of Ilim Pulp, bought the Reading Football Club.

    Maxim Demin, a billionaire chairman of the Board of Directors of the National Insurance Group, bought the Bournemouth football club.

    Dmitry Rybolovlev, a billionaire, the former owner of Uralkali, bought the football club Monaco.

    Vladimir Antonov, a billionaire banker, bought the Portsmouth football club.

    Gazprom bought the Zenit football club. Gazprom’s investments in Zenit are estimated at 150 million dollars.
    "Gazprom" also sponsors the German Schalke, the Serbian Crvena Zvezda, the Russian Sakhalin and is a partner of the UEFA Champions League.
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 15: 04
      nnnnnn,
      Well, the fact that they are all sTsuki, I agree, but what do you think other people's money?, I would write right there, what and how much Nazarbayev "earned" and bought, and the attitude towards your post would be different, otherwise it turns out that there is an elder in the garden, and in Kiev there is an uncle.
      Talk about Baikonur, and you dragged "Deripasok" here. What the hell? hiThere is still no commoner, all Russian drunkards laughing
  23. simpleton
    -2
    22 January 2013 14: 20
    Work for China and that's it. Nazarbayev is still that political ....... He has long starred in the porn film "Me and My Claims in World Politics."
    1. Marek Rozny
      -1
      25 January 2013 00: 48
      simpleton, tell me who is to blame for the situation with Baikonur - Russia, which secretly began several years ago to build a new spaceport, on which it intends to launch all new rockets, which severely deceived the Kazakhs regarding ALL joint space projects, or Kazakhstan, which is now forced to take measures to save Baikonur as a space city?
      After the construction of the Russian cosmodrome - what is Roskosmos going to do with Baikonur? The answer is nothing. Absolutely. It will just behave like a dog in the manger until 2050, until all infrastructure decays.
      Since 1991, Russia has not spent a dime on the development of this city and the spaceport. Money is spent solely on maintaining infrastructure. There is no question of any development. But the nasty Kazakhs for some reason want to give Baikonur a cosmic future. And for now, we hope that together with Russia. And if not, then Kazakhstan will take measures not to get another looted garbage dump in 2050, which ALWAYS remain after being withdrawn from Russian jurisdiction. All such objects went to KZ in the destroyed state.
      1. -1
        25 January 2013 00: 53
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Russia, which secretly began several years ago to build a new spaceport

        strange everyone was aware of one cacosmosis no
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Since 1991, Russia has not spent a dime on the development of this city and the spaceport. Money is spent solely on maintaining infrastructure.

        numbers in the studio
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        All such objects went to KZ in the destroyed state.
        examples with photos, etc.
        1. Marek Rozny
          -1
          25 January 2013 03: 26
          1) This is the last few years as in the course, but initially Russia began to build this facility without advertising, and when it turned out, what could the Kazakhs do? Nothing. But the indignation appeared when it became clear that the launches of the Angara missiles were also planned to be carried out in Russia! This is another trick! Kazakhstan has allocated more than 200 million dollars. And it was assumed by default that the launches would only be from Baikonur (when the agreement was signed, the Kazakhs did not yet suspect that Russia was going to build its own cosmodrome). And it turns out that Russia is stupidly using Kazakh money to create a rocket, which it will then launch at home. And what is the point of this project for the Kazakhs? We wanted "clean" ecological rockets to take off from Baikonur, not heptyl Protons. And in the end, everything remains as it is - the Angara for launches in Russia, and the notorious Protons - for launches from Baikonur! WHAT is this bullshit to us? It was then proposed to launch Zenit from Baikonur. The Russians began to break down again. And now they don't want to give up Angara either. They say that the cost of the project has unexpectedly increased sevenfold. Not 30%. Not 50%. Not twice, or even five times. And seven times!
          - Excuse me, what about the signed agreement, comrades Russians? Here's the contract - you requested such and such an amount, we paid it all ... Where is the rocket?
          - Hm ... Contract? Get a hold of them. Or pay almost $ 2 billion, or forget about the Angara.

          And at the same time, Roskosmos wonders why the Kazakhs began to resent ... But the Baikonur launch pad for Zenith, which the Kazakhs wanted to buy, is subleased by your oligarch Makhmudov (UMMC), who has bumbled at an unbearable price, so that the Kazakhs turned and left.
          2) The numbers can be found in any news about Baikonur. Everywhere it says how much money Russia spends on the cosmodrome and the city. And it says what is spent. You can read such things without my help. Although he should know them without Google, if he got into this topic, to be smart.
          3) Examples - read the memoirs of Russian officers who served at Daryal-U, Baikonur and other facilities. You don't want to explain every detail to you already. It can be seen that not only do you not fumble in the subject, but also do not want to know. Even if you get familiar with it, in a week in a new discussion you will again stupidly make surprised eyes "numbers, photos!" In what condition the Russians left the main facilities in the Karaganda region I saw with my own eyes - a specific horror. Not a single complete detail. Everything that can be stolen and sold has been stolen. Everything that cannot be carried away and sold is broken. I’m telling you - even the tiles in the toilets were smashed and shit in the literal sense by the Russians before they left. They also left nationalist inscriptions on the walls. But thousands of ammunition are scattered across the territory. Local shepherds earned for several years by collecting Russian orphaned military shells and handing them over to metal collection points. If you do not know the topic, then don’t get lost. If you could speak normally, you would write details with pleasure. And since you write with a poorly disguised chauvinist flavor, you google the details yourself. Reading these filthy memoirs is fun enough. The same showers as you wrote. So you will be on the same wavelength with the authors. They are all there under their names and with feedback. You can chat with them, take your soul away, remembering the Kazakhs-savages.
  24. -1
    22 January 2013 16: 25
    When the Kazakhs began to boss in Leninsk, even the colonels from the cosmodrome were repairing pipes in the basements with the keys.
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      25 January 2013 11: 43
      Are you talking about the winter of 1993-1994? Excuse me, but in Russia the heat supply in the regions was uninterrupted? Have you already forgotten how whole regions in Russia were frozen out until recently? Then I remind you that this was not only in Baikonur in those years, but also everywhere in Russia. And Kazakhstan, by the way, reformed the housing and communal services much faster and put things in order in this matter than Russia.
  25. Algor73
    +3
    22 January 2013 18: 01
    Baikonur is the land of Kazakhstan. The lease was signed back in 1994, since then a lot of water has flowed. And there is nothing shameful here that the Kazakhs want to revise this agreement, and there is nothing shameful that the Russians want to stretch it out longer, Until they build their own spaceport.
    1. Jin
      +2
      22 January 2013 18: 38
      Quote: Algor73
      Baikonur is the land of Kazakhstan.


      yeah, we’ll agree so much here! And whose land is in South Ossetia, Georgia? I mean, after the collapse of the Union, there is no need to rant about who wants what and what claims and with what pathos. The point is that if you inherited a car, it’s not the fact that you earned it ...
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      25 January 2013 00: 40
      Algor, the whole trick is that Russia doesn’t consider it necessary to comply with agreements with the Kazakhs and is convinced that it has the right to violate it whenever it is convenient for Russia. But when the Kazakhs began the conversation that in this case it would be time to reconsider the agreements (and for the benefit of Baikonur himself) - then Roscosmos began to stink like a rotten herring. Russia has a lot of stocks on agreements and contracts, but the Russian media have not said a word about them. But they pulled the statement of the head of Kazcosmos out of the context of events and as a result there is hysteria.
      Moreover, the position of Russia is absolutely understandable to the Kazakhs, which takes time trivially until it has completed its launch site, and after that Baikonur Khan - Russia itself will not do anything there and will not give it to others until 2050. Kazakhstan did not expect such a trick, but planned to work together in space.
      1. 0
        25 January 2013 00: 50
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Russia has a bunch of jambs on agreements and contracts

        let's with numbers
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        But they pulled the statement of the head of Kazcosmos out of the context of events and as a result there is hysteria

        let's not pull out how the idea voiced by Musabaev looks like?
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        and after that, Baikonur Khan - Russia itself will not do anything there, and will not give others until 2050

        Do I understand correctly that RK itself is not able to exploit Baikonur?
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 January 2013 01: 06
          Vasilenko, you surprise me ... As if you just woke up. About Russian schools in the field of joint projects there are already dozens of posts in all the latest articles on Baikonur. Who is to blame for not being able to read Russian?
          The same applies to the speech of Musabaev and, in general, the opinion of the Kazakh side regarding the development plans of Baikonur as a city and as a spaceport. Open yer ice (I write in Russian letters, otherwise the Latin can scare you).

          As for the exploitation, the Kazakhs say the same officially - give the city away - we ourselves will bear the costs. And also let's save you the rent for Baikonur and start TOGETHER to invest in its development. But Russia is against it! She does not want to give up the city or invest in the cosmodrome! Why are you turning on the fool? Kazakhstan is not talking about raising the rent, but about getting you rid of it altogether and allowing Kazakhstan to invest in the cosmodrome. But it is easier for Russia to give the launching pads at the mercy of any oligarchs (Makhmudov, "MKU" - a daughter of UMMC) than to actually engage in the development of the cosmodrome.
          Russia itself does nothing there and does not want to give Kazakhstan. That is all the policy of Russia in this matter.
          1. 0
            25 January 2013 01: 12
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Vasilenko, you surprise me ... As if you just woke up.

            you either learn to politely conduct a dialogue, or keep silent
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            About Russian schools in the field of joint projects there are already dozens of posts in all the latest articles about Baikonur

            Do you think that I am only doing that I read articles about Baikonur?
            since you blamed, then you prove
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            rent for Baikonur and start TOGETHER to invest in its development. But Russia is against it!

            quite logical, it means that you have to share technology
            1. Marek Rozny
              -1
              25 January 2013 03: 55
              1) I speak politely and willingly with adequate and polite. And I’m talking with chauviks accordingly. Your hatred of the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan is manifested in every sentence. Che play a comedy?
              In "Our Rush" there is a character Ludwig Aristarkhovich. And the name with an aristocratic touch, and the face with glasses corresponding, and lives in St. Petersburg, and in general the most intelligent human being. Only now ... he shits on the sly on the staircase to his neighbors, whom he counts polls below himself. Well, a person's life has failed. And it seems like you need to feel sorry for him, but somehow you can't sympathize with him. But this is me ... I just remembered the sketch. Don't load. You probably don't wear glasses and don't shit on neighbors. AND? :)
              And I do not intend to address you to "you", you have repeatedly, directly and indirectly, rude to me in the previous topics. So let's not strain and write to me on you. Allow me, Vova.
              2) If you don't read about Baikonur, then why are you getting involved in conversations? Roscosmos itself has heated up the situation, and now it is also launching a wave in the media against the Kazakhs, who are now demanding that Russia comply with treaties on the space theme or radically revise them. And you are apparently just fixated on the topic "again, Kazakhs blather against Russia", well, you get in at random. Go read about Baikonur, then we'll start discussing.
              3) Well, so why do we need cooperation with Russia in the space industry? You yourself admit that it is not necessary to give the Kazakhs technologies (although no one asked them for free). Then really pack your things - get out of Baikonur. To endure the eternal scam of Roscosmos is already reluctant. We do not need to suffer the destruction of the cosmodrome. It does not give us anything anyway, while it is on loan from the Russians. Then why should we worry if it is of no use to us. To be happy only for your commercial launches? Do we need it? Then get out of Baikonur, since you think that you have the right to violate contracts and ignore offers of cooperation. There your brothers-Ukrainians (although what kind of brothers they are to you, you are already like "the most Russian Russian") are persistently asking to be your companions. We will work with them. They have already begun to work on armored vehicles without Russia, which also whined about "sharing technology." If Roscosmos is the same as you, then obviously for 2014, Russia will get a hell of an agreed rocket launch plan. Spend your $ 115 million on building decent children's homes for orphans. Well, or on the track in Yakutia. Well, or paste over your spaceport with rhinestones. All the same, instead of real money, Russia shoved at inflated prices rusty pieces of iron for the railways, and then planes killed in the trash (the Russian pilots who served in the Kazakhstan Air Force wrote that they were ashamed that Russia sent such openly crumpled trash, taking advantage of the fact that Kazakhs did not stipulate in what condition the planes should be). This rubbish had to be completely repaired again later in Ukraine and Belarus. And now, instead of this money, they simply transfer to Russian military universities directly from the Russian budget for the fact that Kazakhs study at Russian military universities, which then actually guard the southern borders of Russia, thanks to which Russia can afford not to keep large troops, focusing on the west and the far east.
              1. -1
                25 January 2013 10: 13
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                And with the shoviks

                favorite word of stupid natspatov, for a start you will bother to read what chvinism means, I don’t answer you as a true representative of a boorish cattle
  26. pavlo007
    -3
    22 January 2013 18: 52
    I remember somehow we were discussing the topic here about the former Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, which, according to Khrushchev’s moronism, has now become a state (he not only presented Crimea).
    It was just that I was amiably bombarded when I began to talk about Kazakh fascism, about the kind of humiliation and constant violence the Russians were subjected to there, how our compatriots were relegated to the position of slaves in Kazakhstan. Kazakhs brothers all shouted forever, all this is a lie !!!!
    What will Putininoids and Kazakhophiles answer now?
    But there was a way out of the situation, it’s not even Little Russia. It was just necessary to support the Cossacks there, the Russians, when there were more than 70% of the population, to take away the originally Russian territories in the north, which the Kazakhs now occupied by the Kazakhs, and to reduce the remainder of Kazakhstan to the status of a puppet state, and perhaps even succeed in Kazakh statehood.
    But another way was chosen - to try to feed the snake with his hand. This is the result.

    Kiss further the dear Putinoids with the Kazakhs, and in the meantime they will continue to crowd out the Russians, take away the Russian cosmodromes, remaining in the face to say that now you are our slaves. (I just know the situation from the inside - I have many friends who are forced to flee from Kazakhstan as a result of the oppression of Kazakh fascists.)

    PS The statement by Algol73 j that this is the land of Kazakhstan smiled very much. There is nothing of yours at all, you should be grateful to the Russians just for living, and not lying in the grave like the American Indians.
    1. +3
      22 January 2013 20: 00
      Pavlo, you remind me very much of the American presidents when they want to democratize something (or someone).
      1. Jin
        +4
        22 January 2013 21: 55
        Quote: Kasym
        Pavlo, you remind me very much of the American presidents when they want to democratize something (or someone).


        Dauren, you are an adequate person and not stupid! I want, as it is not pleasant, to ask a question ... Surely, maybe briefly, you read my posts, I’m not a bang on my head, not at all! But! As far as I know from the words of eyewitnesses, in Kazakhstan the attitude towards Russians is far from friendly ... to my great regret what Or do they (people worthy of my trust) lie to the weed?
        1. +4
          22 January 2013 22: 30
          Quote: Jin
          As far as I know from the words of eyewitnesses, in Kazakhstan the attitude towards Russians is far from friendly ... to my great regret
          - last names, first names, links and other.
          On the contrary, I am irritated by the fact that at first I came to the expansion from Eburg almost the entire top of the Euroset. At first, arrogantly spat on, what kind of manners, what kind of country, what kind of laws? Then they got accustomed and after the quiet death of the Euroset in Kazakhstan, all REMAIN HERE! And they took big positions! It’s even possible that mine. Is it smeared with honey? After the sale of one of the Kazakh banks to the western, management from Moscow came here again - and again all remained here!
          All the directors of Beeline Kazakhstan - Markov, Sobolev and one more, after leaving Kazakhstan, also stay here! And they also took sickly, maybe even mine, posts! Gin, do you have more facts?
          Quote: Jin
          Or do they (people worthy of my trust) lie to the weed?
          - connect me with these people! Let them share their insults. Let them tell me in person.
          And about
          Quote: Jin
          I'm not banged on the head Natsik, not at all!
          - According to the posts you have said, if you are not Natsik, then what should you call this Pavlo? Come on straight - you are a specific natsik, and this one is an ultranac with pronounced impaired brain activity. No need to flatter yourself.
          1. -2
            23 January 2013 12: 59
            Quote: aksakal
            ALL STAY HERE! And they took big positions!

            "- surnames, names, links, etc." in which company what positions ?!
            Quote: aksakal
            connect me with these people! Let them share their insults. Let them tell me in person.

            let's say directly nationalism in the RK has a place to be, you can be offended, you can not, but it's a fact
            1. Jet
              +3
              23 January 2013 19: 46
              It takes place, we admit. But we are fighting with him. Unlike some .. In our country, you can and should immediately get a turnip for saying "Kazakhstan is only for Kazakhs". And the cops don't stop passers-by with the words "hey, not Kazakh, come here." Hand on heart, tell me a similar situation in Russia?)
        2. +4
          23 January 2013 00: 03
          Eugene, good night (we have already the first hour of the night)! I am always happy to answer a colleague, especially my DEAR! The question, of course, is not simple, even very! But I still try to light it.
          There are several aspects to this.
          Remember the times when our country collapsed. Many were left with nothing, inflation eaten up their savings. Real estate has depreciated - many began to move out, a huge number of proposals appeared on the market. And the people have no money, the purchasing power is low. People who wanted to go to history. Homeland, were forced to leave their real estate, property (not in demand) and leave with nothing. Coming to new places, where the situation is not ah, they had to answer the questions of the locals (and after all, people were angry everywhere in the USSR). "And why did you move? There is nothing to eat by themselves, but here all sorts of immigrants are claiming our work! They come in large numbers here! Let them come back!" And here the myth of oppression and persecution appears! After all, our people are compassionate (compassionate, compassionate), they begin to feel sorry for, help, show participation, which went into the hands of the migrants.
          On the other hand, the events of 1986 had a very strong influence - Gorbachev put an unknown Kolbin at the head of Kazakhstan. Before that, the Russians were the first persons in our country (Brezhnev and, honestly, I don’t remember the name of the second one). But these were the people they knew in KZ. And here is an unknown person. Here the Kazakhs (of whom there were only 40% in the Kazakh SSR and lived mainly in rural areas) and exploded. It was like an insult, like spitting, like humiliation to the whole people, especially against the background of our southern neighbors (Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan). This was very beneficial to our nationalists. There were slogans nat. character. But believe me, as an eyewitness to those events, robberies, violence, beatings in the cities were not (the cut was only on the "New" square in Alma-Ata, Kazakh students, mostly from the provinces, took an active part). But the tension was felt. All Kazakhstanis suddenly felt what nationality they belong to. But it lasted a little (maximum a week). After all, those were the times of the USSR. The unrest was harshly suppressed. Many participants were imprisoned, and there were also student casualties. These events, of course, could not but affect the non-indigenous population, their opinions, their attitude towards the Kazakhs. In schools, institutes, in other groups, fortunately, the stratification on the national. sign did not happen. But it was already too late, the Kazakhs began to be associated in the USSR as nationalists. In the army, at first they gave me the nickname - DEKABRIST - I was the only Kazakh in the unit (DMB 89). And how long it took me to explain the situation to my colleagues! Later, Gorbachev admitted his mistake. He came to KZ, after his resignation and the parade of sovereignties, publicly repented of this. The IDPs, of course, took advantage of this, calling us Nats, etc. ...
          To be continued .
          1. +4
            23 January 2013 01: 17
            Continuation. Now let's move to 1998. when the price of oil and other raw materials began to rise. The economy began to rise. And I met the first returnees among my acquaintances. Classmate. I still call him, I am not going to Russia. "We are KAZAKHIS there. Why? I feel good at home! I have work (his own business, by the way, his childhood friend, a Kazakh, helped him to set things up, gave him money for circulation), we have an apartment, we have a car. Soon we will live in the Union." lucky not to sell the apartment at that time. Then it cost a penny, and now 200 dollars. The second to return were my friend's parents (he himself was categorically against the move and stayed here, I helped him find an investor, also a Kazakh, by the way, and now he drives a Porsche Cayenne). They found a job right away - doctors. Actually, many Kazakhs have the following attitude towards our Russians - GOLDEN HANDS. Because they are mainly city dwellers and skilled workers. So I don't know why, Evgeny, your friends think that Kazakhs are unfriendly to Russians. Of course, the national question will always manifest itself, but we only discuss it in the kitchen. Yes, and we did not have a war, although all and sundry predicted KZ citizens. war and chaos. We are very similar - Russia and KZ. And here and there multinational states, they are not deprived of natural resources, there is enough territory. Now we need to make sure that a similar story with the USSR does not repeat itself.
            You ask any Kazakh with whom he is on the way. And he will answer that with RUSSIA. As they say, everything is relative. Look at our southern neighbors. There are practically no Russians left in Uzbekistan, the Russian language is practically not used. The same is in Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan. And we have about a third of the Slavs of the Slavs, and for our Russians we are a mountain. You will hear Russian language everywhere. It is promoted in our country, as the language of interethnic communication, and is prescribed in the constitution. At my company, half of the employees are Russians, the director and partner are Russians (Oleg and Konstantin).
            These are the pies. Eugene, it’s better to see once than hear a hundred times. So come. Welcome . At the same time, I understand perfectly well that there are people who, leaving this place, were unsatisfied or were seriously offended. For example, our colleague Vladimir Vasilenko. It is even useless to discuss with him. And I feel that I will scoop up the cons from them in full. But never mind - the truth is more expensive.
            1. -1
              23 January 2013 10: 02
              Quote: Kasym
              It is useless to even discuss with him

              so you don’t debate, you give gossip as examples and want everyone to enjoy it
            2. Jin
              +1
              23 January 2013 10: 50
              Quote: Kasym
              So I don’t know why, Eugene, your friends think that Kazakhs are unfriendly to Russians


              Dauren, I realized, thank you again for being scorned. Lots of food for thought. Good luck in business, life and business! drinks
          2. Jin
            +1
            23 January 2013 10: 45
            Quote: Kasym
            Eugene, good night (we have already the first hour of the night)! I am always happy to answer a colleague, especially my DEAR! The question, of course, is not simple, even very! But I still try to light it.


            Dauren, mutually, thanks! Thanks for the complete and detailed answer, and the time spent!
            1. +1
              23 January 2013 15: 59
              Good luck, Eugene! See you on the site!
      2. +1
        22 January 2013 22: 21
        Quote: Kasym
        Pavlo, you remind me very much of the American presidents when they want to democratize something (or someone).
        In the garden of elderberry. In general, out of 6 people working with me, four are refugees, sorry, immigrants from Kazakhstan - Korean and three Russians. Not so harshly, but they say about the same as Pavlo007.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 January 2013 00: 26
          Pushkar, well, and how exactly did they describe the atrocities of the Kazakhs in relation to them personally?
      3. pavlo007
        -2
        23 January 2013 01: 04
        The Americans pursue a very correct policy from their point of view and achieve, alas, the necessary results for themselves. From the point of view of American citizens, everything is fine. It is unfortunate that Russia is not able to defend its interests around the world in the way the United States does.

        PS Well, let me Natsik, if it’s easier for you, but where did you, my dear internationalist, share several million Russians? They threw and sold their property for nothing, and ran to Russia in the wild nineties, obviously just for the sake of love for a change of place. In any case, Russia remains a country with a multinational people, and in Kazakhstan a mono-ethnic fascist state is being built with a fixed title principle, which is prescribed by law. This is very nice, in the light of the fact that initially Kazakhs before the Russian genocide were only 20-30% of the population ..
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 January 2013 00: 24
          You have some confusion in your head about Kazakhstan.
          1) I wrote about Russian immigrants below.
          2) Kazakhstan is much more multinational than Russia. Kazakhs in Kazakhstan - 55-60% of the population. The rest are Slavs, Germans, Koreans, Caucasians, Uzbeks, Uighurs, Tatars, Poles, Jews, Kurds and others.
          3) There was no Russian genocide. Wake up. Three quarters of Russian Kazakhstanis remained in the KZ and none of them can complain about any genocide there. Genocide is what Russia did with the northern peoples of Russia or with the Nogais in tsarist times. Do not attribute to the Kazakhs what they did not do. If we ever genocide anyone in history, it’s the Dzungar in the 3th century, from whom the Russians supposedly saved us)))) Well, if you called genocide that the Kazakhs speak their own language in their country - well, then any country the world can easily blame it. Although even Russians are not forced to speak Kazakh in our country. Less than 4% of Russians can make at least one sentence in the state language, nevertheless they can receive all the necessary public services in Russian, as well as learn their own language in our country. Or what do you call genocide?
          4) How many Kazakhs lived in the Kazakh SSR in 1989 - out of 16464464 Kazakhstanis:
          Kazakhs - 6434616 people (1st place in terms of number);
          Russians - 6227549 people (2nd place in number).
          And you automatically assigned all the rest to the Russians by default? You, in the heat of Kazakhophobia, wrote down Ukrainian, Uzbek, Azeri, German, Korean, Tatar and Chechens in the "Russian people"? Is that your logic? Well, I can still understand your desire to enroll Ukrainians as "Russians" (although I don’t think that a Ukrainian will understand you, except for completely Russified ones), but why oppose the rest to the Kazakhs? Although if you are talking about the party nomenclature of the Kazakh SSR, then yes, ethnic Russians really dominated many times in our population. In 1991, the city executive committees in full force moved to Russia)))) In Omsk and Kaliningrad, the backbone of city administrators still consists of former officials of the Kazakh SSR))))
          1. +2
            25 January 2013 00: 34
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            How many Kazakhs lived in the Kazakh SSR in 1989 - out of 16464464 Kazakhstanis:
            Kazakhs - 6434616 people (1st place in terms of number);
            Russians - 6227549 people (2nd place in number).

            quoting a wiki is not always appropriate in the year 70, Kazakhs made up only a third of the population, in the 80s in the CCCHC were the numbers 17% otkel in 89 almost 50?
            but even if you take your figures as a basis, explain why Russian in the Republic of Kazakhstan does not have the status of a state ?!
            1. Marek Rozny
              -1
              25 January 2013 01: 24
              you're weird ... and in 1989 we weren't the majority. Who is to blame for the fact that in the 40s it became a place of exile for a heap of peoples in Kazakhstan, and since 1954 a mass resettlement of Slavs to Northern Kazakhstan began? Yes, it is a fact, Kazakhs already at the end of the 50s instantly became only a third of the population of the Kazakh SSR, and the Russians suddenly became more than 40%, but Duc they were temporary workers / collective farmers who already in the 70s left back to the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and BSSR. Or did the Kazakhs begin to "genocide" them even then?))))) The process of the return of the Slavs from the Kazakh SSR began long before perestroika, when it became clear that the territory of virgin plowing was not as gigantic as it was originally planned. Let me remind you that at first they plowed up a heap of land, of which many lands have remained ruined for centuries. would-be agrarians from Moscow did not give a damn about the warnings of the Kazakhs about wind erosion. Khrushchev was chasing quantity, and in the end he wanted to immediately "overtake America" ​​in agriculture. Yes broke off. The virgin lands were reduced, a lot of people were left out of business and were sent back. If you think that the outflow of the Slavic population from Kazakhstan began only after the collapse of the USSR, then these are the problems of your knowledge of the subject.
              And as for the language - why on earth should the language of immigrants, albeit numerous, be our state? Do you want to announce the Azerbaijani, Tajik or Armenian state language in certain regions of Russia?
              Z.Y. 17% - where does this come from ??? Figured it out myself?
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      25 January 2013 00: 27
      Pavlo, name specifically the "primordially Russian" lands in Kazakhstan. Che are you ashamed. Name it.
  27. +3
    22 January 2013 20: 49
    Quote: DmitriRazumov
    In 1991, a disaster occurred. Kazakhstan unilaterally declared the spaceport its property. All restrictions on access control were immediately lifted and the local population, in fact, began the looting of material assets of military units and units. This can only be compared with the Mongol-Tatar invasion. In the city of Leninsk, people were depopulated at home, because officer families began to urgently leave the spaceport. Five-story buildings flew into the air, because looted gas equipment.
    The Kazakh authorities did not have enough funds and skills not only for the operation of numerous means and systems of launch and maintenance, but even for the maintenance of housing and communal services.

    I will say no more neither the means nor the ability to maintain the already constructed high-tech facilities, industrial enterprises and other infrastructure. In fact, at that time there was a general looting of the union’s heritage. Not only Leginsk but also practically all cities and objects from the territory of which the armed forces were withdrawn fell under the distribution, and believe more than a dozen such objects. I am generally silent about industrial enterprises. All this happened before my eyes. So I’m proud that now the economy is growing and new enterprises are being built, I wouldn’t particularly. The old ones had to be maintained and modernized and would sooner and cheaper. To my great regret, such a picture occurred after the collapse of the union in all republics, with the possible exception of Belarus, and this is actually our common misfortune. And this happened because human stupidity and greed have no limit, in other matters the root of so many troubles.
    As for Baikonur, I really feel sorry if the agashki don’t agree (and there is such an opportunity) then the launch site will simply die quietly, as by the way, and Leninsk.
    1. Jin
      +1
      22 January 2013 22: 00
      Quote: AKOL
      the spaceport will simply die quietly, as by the way, and Leninsk.


      Colleague, good evening! That could very well happen! Our problem is common, only the trouble is that we (I mean all members of the forum) cannot influence this sad It's a shame and bitter ...
  28. nnnnnn
    +2
    22 January 2013 21: 21
    Quote: volkan
    Now the Kazakhs will come running and will say that we all do not understand that. It is about equal partnership. And here we are all some kind of nationalists. Ha ha. The story of Baikonur is pure blackmail and 1. An attempt to earn more money 2. To touch the space powers and have a delicious gesheft with it.

    Quote: volkan
    Wedmak, wow oh colleague see, come running

    Quote: volkan
    The arguments are standard: Were you the only ones who built it? Why should it belong only to you? This is a normal business relationship. The trouble of all the republics of the former USSR is that they themselves have not really created anything over the past 20 years, therefore they are now trying to squeeze the last juice from the legacy of the USSR. I conclude that in the USSR everyone was pulled by the RSFSR, and the rest were attached. But who among the "independent" wants to agree with this. It's easier to call people like me nationalists and "arrogant Russians". And when you ask someone, well, what did you do during the period of independence, here comes a stupor. Because nothing.

    Quote: volkan
    Everything is simple here. I don’t need to think for everyone. On this site, the Baikonur theme has been raised more than once or twice. And I know perfectly well what Kazakh colleagues say in such cases. Is there a big experience in trollism? Any concrete examples? Or so, to say. In life, he did not troll anyone. What is the point then?

    Quote: volkan
    I’ll tell you more, if I were in power, I would never have allowed a political prostitute (at the moment) Ukraine to our space technologies, or God forbid, Israeli children ... Do this and our technologies will run away to the West skipping with a big grin. I still hope that we are not round-and-d-and-o-t-s

    Quote: volkan
    Well, Kazakhs like you are running over (and read the posts of Kasym .. calm and without a national show off) ... Did you put the phrase “GIVE BAIKONUR” in your post? And what do you want me to answer? And I have only one answer .. .... THAT FOR THE DEFINITION OF CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES WHAT YOURS WERE NOT BECAME YOURSELF NOT YOUR SERVICE. And what ... did it go? ... Why these provocative phrases? any Russian can answer this phrase quite sharply to you. And the fact that at the moment the talk about increasing the rent is like some kind of blackmail, because we have nowhere to go ... so it seems sorry. What exactly in the last couple of years has the issue of Baikonur become so aggravated? Is it not because the Kazakh leadership understands that the Russians will leave for the East ... and no one will pay them anything for Baikonur. So they are trying to snatch more for the remaining time ... aren't they?

    A TROLL STANDARD sits on a salary, walks through the Kazakhs, then through the Ukrainians, through the children of Israel, then dawns that he has imperial manners, works subtly, but the FSB or MOSSAD monitors and draws conclusions!
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 23: 04
      nnnnnn,

      So, of course, for the troll it would be possible to insinuate your stupid turnip, but I’m kind of a cultured person.
      You can say in essence ... say .... you can’t be silent ... you will marry a smart one ...
      Bullshit about Kazakhs, Ukrainians and Jews, as it were, to nowhere.
      I don’t even want to comment, but I’ll say
      Kazakhs, because in this thread we are talking about Kazakhstan
      Ukrainians are the answer to someone else's post. If Ukraine was dragged along, I said my opinion about "let the goat into the garden" for now (in my opinion) it is not worth letting Ukraine into the cherished closet. Let them first decide who they are.
      As for the Jews, well, my friend .... these chosen ones have done so much "good" to my country that, as it were ... I have the right.


      And by the way, your wretched nnnnnnnn I remembered, I saw you here before ...
      Can’t you all stop laughing? Even minus put you in vain ... Sam skukozhsya
  29. Hayots
    0
    22 January 2013 21: 25
    By the way, the Russian Federation has a second spaceport in French Guiana. So if you are insured))
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 22: 12
      Overseas heifer - half .... yes rupe transported.
    2. 0
      23 January 2013 10: 55
      This is an international project. Although, in my opinion, funding from Russia is quite large there. Yes, and our carriers.
      1. Hayots
        0
        23 January 2013 12: 19
        In Kourou, the Russian Federation built its launch terminal of the spaceport, there buttons in Russian)))
        1. 0
          23 January 2013 12: 40
          Me? Is there a few starting tables? I thought alone.
          1. Hayots
            0
            23 January 2013 13: 02
            no ... not a launch station, but a launch terminal)) The building from where the launch is given
  30. Jet
    +4
    22 January 2013 23: 25
    It is unpleasant that the discussion of the terms of the lease of something (roughly speaking a business transaction) in some places turns into a nationalist dispute, with the participation of really friendly and not afraid of the word fraternal peoples and states. Of course, there are excesses on both sides, but I’m really telling you that it will never even occur to most Kazakhs and Kazakhstanis to hurt a representative of another ethnic group in any way. Even on the forums, anonymous trolls for such things are immediately banned and plugged, not to mention real life.
    1. wano67nikolay
      0
      23 January 2013 12: 51
      I have other information about the Kazakhs. Unfortunately. They were the first in the Soviet Union who rebelled against the Russians back in 1986. And how many Russian bosses are there now in Kazakhstan? And why do Russians leave from there. And why are they renaming Russian cities? For example Guryev and Uralsk. Cities founded by Russians. Etc. In general, I like the expression "Kazakh cosmonautics". It is very reminiscent of "The old people's Chechen Kalashnikov assault rifle".
      1. Jet
        -1
        23 January 2013 16: 56
        Well ...... what to say, this is news! Is it your media brainwashed? Let it be known to you that in 1986 the participants in the riots demanded the appointment of a representative of the indigenous population to the post of head of the republic, and not G. Kolbin, who was sent from Moscow, who did not know Kazakhstan in principle, which would be quite logical to agree? Or would you choose a Kazakh as the head of Russia?)))))) And although I myself have a negative attitude to the renaming of settlements, but where does Russia in general ???????? and where does the "Russian chiefs" in principle? what kind of ambition ?! incomprehensible and unpleasant ... I prefer not to answer the last sentence, so as not to heat up the situation)
        PS Maybe the Kazakhs destroyed the union ?;) quietly, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha?)))
      2. Marek Rozny
        0
        25 January 2013 00: 00
        Quote: wano67nikolay
        They were against the Russians precisely the first in the Union to revolt back in 1986. And how many Russian bosses are there in Kazakhstan now? And why did the Russians leave there. And why are they renaming Russian cities? For example, Guryev and Uralsk. Cities founded by Russians.

        1) In 1986, the Kazakhs rebelled against the appointment of Comrade Kolbin to the post of the first head of the republic, who had never lived or worked in KZ before. Are we rams, so that the "Vikings" control us? At the same time, the "Kazakh nationalists" offered to find any Russian, but LOCAL a manager, if Moscow really wanted to see the leader of Kazakhstan as a Slav. Over the entire period of Soviet history, ethnic Kazakhs led Kazakhstan only three times. All the other first secretaries of the Communist Party of the Kazakh SSR were Russians, Ukrainians, Jews, Armenians, Uighurs and others. Can you name the period in the RSFSR when it was ruled by Nerus?
        2) Regarding the Russians in the government, I offhand call the names of the top heads of departments over the past 5 years - Bozhko (MES-nickname, former first deputy head of the KNB!), Shkolnik (Ministry of Energy), Rogov (Const. Court), Khitrin, Otto (deputy MIA ), Merkel (Deputy Prosecutor General's Office), Korzhova (Ministry of Finance), Bakhmutov (financial supervision), Marchenko (National Bank), Petrov (Deputy Emergencies Ministry), Dernova (Ministry of Health), Gromov (Deputy Minister of Defense), Dyachenko (Deputy Representative of the Senate of the Parliament) ), Evgeni Aman (answer. Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture), Sorokin (Commander in Chief of the Air Force) and a bunch of others. And this I still did not start to name the names of numerous governors and deputies of the Parliament. And I’m silent about the names of ex-leaders such as Khrapunov, Mette and others. As well as Tatars and Uighurs, who are most often mistaken for Kazakhs :))) But I am not surprised that you do not know the Russian leaders in the KZ. You, after all, can hardly name Kazakh surnames as chiefs)))
        3) About the same amount leaves the KZ for the RF as from the RF to KZ. There was a large wave of immigrants in the early 90s, when the USSR collapsed. The overwhelming majority of Russian Kazakhs in 1991 were NOT natives of the Kazakh SSR, but moved to the republic for work (Komsomol construction sites, virgin lands, the army) and, naturally, never intended to live outside of Mother Russia. When the Union collapsed, they packed their things and left literally HOME. At the same time, I would like to note that a) 3/4 of the Slavic population decided to stay in KZ; b) those Russians who left for Russia and found themselves "disadvantaged" there. Can you name at least one former Russian Kazakhstani who left after 1991, who achieved something in Russia - in business, politics, culture? And after all, about 2 million people left, who are still beating them in the chest with their fists, talking about what "golden cadres" Kazakhstan has lost in their face.
        But why hundreds of thousands of Russians leave Russia is a mystery to me ...
        4) You can mock the concept of "Kazakh cosmonautics" as much as you like - your right. We have goals, ambitions and money and we will achieve our goal. The first satellite manufacturing plant will start operating in Astana this year (thanks to the French). The Russians, unfortunately, refused to cooperate with us in this regard. In addition, Kazakhs will start working with Ukrainians on rocketry.
        The Russians do not want to cooperate - then there is no need to accuse us of "betrayal" Even on the topic of the production of military equipment, Russia refused to the Kazakhs all these years. Now we are building military factories with the help of the Turks (armored vehicles, electronics), the French (radio equipment, drones), Ukrainians (armored vehicles), South Koreans (warships), Germans (helicopters), plus other smaller projects for body armor and other shmurdyak with Europeans (Vost. Europe, Italy). And Russia all these years turned up its nose and refused to cooperate. Like, buy buy, but forget about joint projects.
        1. -1
          25 January 2013 00: 07
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          In 1986, Kazakhs rebelled against

          well enough, you were not even then even in the Kazakh SSR, all you know is the testimonies of "eyewitnesses" who, in today's realities, will never tell the truth as there is a course of the party and government
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Like, buy, buy, and about joint projects - forget it.

          maybe because nazik wants to sit on two chairs as always ?!
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Can you name at least one former Russian Kazakhstani who left after 1991, who achieved something in Russia - in business, politics, culture?
          you might think if you give the name you believe, you again say nonsense
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            25 January 2013 02: 23
            1) Vasilenko, I have already talked to you about Zheltoksan and I remember your crap about the "armored personnel carriers who defended schools." On this topic, I have met quite a lot with people - both Russians and Kazakhs, and students of those years, and with VVs. And on the internet, like any Kazakh, I thoroughly read all the materials, including those written by the then leaders of the city, law enforcement agencies (of all nationalities). I trust both documents and living people more than some Vasilenko, who, apart from bile, cannot blurt out anything to the Kazakhs.
            2) What two chairs? All these years Kazakhstan has clearly and consistently pursued its foreign policy. And all these years he has very persistently proposed to Russia to create joint factories for the production of military equipment. Moreover, until recently, your defense industry generally lay on its side. Russia flatly refused. What should we do? Riding a vehicle made, at best, 30 years ago? By the 2000s, a bunch of equipment had simply exhausted its resource and had to be modernized. They asked Russia. Essno for the money. Russia either refused or upgraded our equipment at a rate of one drop a year. What for is this cooperation? We do not want to have a cemetery of technology like yours or in other CIS countries. As a result, Russia has already lost billions of Kazakh dollars for lost contracts, and Kazakhstan is gradually saturating the army with European, Ukrainian equipment. And we build factories with them. To wait until Russia deigns to modernize our transport helicopters or when it brings armored vehicles to mind is to be left with nothing. Russia only woke up last year and realized that the Kazakhs were tired of the Russian arrogance of defense miners and the eternal jambs of defense plants. And she herself offered to finally modernize the T-72, when the Israelis, Italians, Ukrainians and Turks began real cooperation with Kazakhstan on armored vehicles. But already thanks - no need. I myself took part in meetings with the Russians regarding the production of helicopters in Kazakhstan - the Russians hung up noodles and in the end did nothing. Now, Russian transport turntables are of no interest to us in general either. As well as Russian military transport aircraft. Now we still hope that the Russians will agree to an enterprise to repair combat aircraft. If not, we will gradually begin to move to cooperation with other countries. And do not look for the guilty but yourself. For decades Kazakhstan has been banging its head against your wall of officials, receiving only "we are not interested in this ... buy finished products ... wait your turn." We wanted to repair all our Mi-26s (there are more than two dozen of them), so Russia repairs them at a rate of "one helicopter per year" !!! That is, it takes more than 20 years to repair all the "cows"! Nafig is it necessary? As a result, they began to build Eurocopters with the Germans. It is not as impressive in terms of carrying capacity as the Mi-26, but nevertheless, IT FLIES, and does not rust at the airport, waiting for repair in Russia in 20 years. So your mockery about two chairs is inappropriate. Russia itself has abandoned all joint projects in the defense industry. And to blame Kazakhstan for this is idiocy or ignorance of the situation.
            3) Give names. I hope the name will be really loud - a politician, artist, businessman of Russian scale, and not just Vasya Pupkin - a wonderful director of Seno Nizhnevolobuevsk LLP or Olya Pupkina - an artist of the Youth Theater in the village of Podmyshki. I have nothing against it, but according to the assurances of those who left, they left the KZ completely "golden heads and hands" on which the entire KZ was held. Already in theory, they should cry from such a loss. And in the end, all this mass of "refugees" in Russia turned out to be a gray mass, which, if it shines, it is only in nationalist comments on various forums. Previously, Kazakhs prevented them from living a normal life, now Jews, Caucasians, Putin and America.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              25 January 2013 11: 37
              I think, where did the messages of Vova Vasilenko go? It turns out he blacklisted me and thus merged)))) I thought he would do it later) Here’s an eccentric man. Broke off absolutely on all issues and stupidly washed off into the fog. Yefim left - well, and to hell with him) Fortunately, there are enough Russian interlocutors on the site who can take someone else's point of view or convince themselves that they are right, and not just throw poop like some.
              Thanks to the admins for the new feature on the site! ;)
              And I’ll ask the Kazakhstanis if they see another provocative message from this user - write to me. I will leave answers to his messages in those topics where he will again thresh garbage. Not because an inveterate debater, but to prevent other Russians from being seduced by the next talker provocateur.
      3. Jet
        +1
        16 October 2013 17: 28
        "revolted"?))))) I do not recommend using such a term: usually oppressed peoples and slaves rise up against the colonialists and others ..
  31. Jet
    +3
    22 January 2013 23: 50
    And not what he is not a "stumbling block"))) In many ways, this problem is artificial. Naturally, we need to rent Baikonur, and preferably a friendly Russian Federation, which traditionally leases it, since, first of all, the Republic of Kazakhstan does not have enough of its specialists in this industry. Funds can also be attracted from outside, those who wish will be found both among the space powers and among those striving for this. But we also need adequate rent. That's all)
  32. Eilryn
    -6
    23 January 2013 08: 18
    Kazakhs, Baikonur should not be given, they will cut it and sell it to the color of China, and in its place they will build a Bazaar or Supermarket.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      24 January 2013 22: 49
      It’s you, Vasya, who apparently confused the Russian officers, who in the 90s in Kazakhstan, before handing over the objects to Kazakhstan, plundered buildings all the way to door handles. As Russian troops plundered Priozersk at a colormet, Daryal-U and Baikonur are a parable.
      And I'm afraid that in 2050, Baikonur will be returned to Kazakhstan as destroyed and plundered as OTHER objects rented by Russia in Kazakhstan.
  33. 0
    23 January 2013 11: 05
    Quote: pavlo007
    and where did you, my dear internationalist, divide several million Russians? They threw and sold their property for nothing, and fled to Russia.

    Not for nothing, but at the market price. At that time, an apartment in Almaty could be bought for $ 500. Millions also emigrated from Russia in the 90s. By your logic, it turns out that their own Russians squeezed out?
  34. Hayots
    +1
    23 January 2013 12: 58
    By the way, what so soared in the Russian Federation?
    In Russia, there are cosmodromes in Plesetsk in Yasnetsk, the Kapustin Yar training ground (Astrakhan region)! The latter is of course military purpose, but as I understand it, it can be used for civilian purposes, if pressed ...

    From the 1970s to the beginning of the 1990s, the Plesetsk cosmodrome held the world leadership in the number of rocket launches into space (from 1957 to 1993, 1372 launches were carried out from here, while from Baikonur in 2nd place only 917 were launched)

    Yasny is a Russian spaceport located on the territory of the Dombarovsky Strategic Missile Forces positional area in the Yasnensky District of the Orenburg Region of Russia. It is used to launch spacecraft through the Dnepr launch vehicles. The cosmodrome operator is Cosmotras international company.
  35. +3
    23 January 2013 14: 19
    Quote: Eilryn
    Kazakhs, Baikonur should not be given, they will cut it and sell it to the color of China, and in its place they will build a Bazaar or Supermarket

    If you do not go anywhere except bazaars and supermarkets, this does not mean that there is nothing other than them in the country.
    1. 0
      23 January 2013 14: 53
      and what the truth is offended ?!
      Radio Engineering Plant - Shopping Center
      Robotics Factory - Bazaar
      Institute for Advanced Medical Studies - Business Center
      cotton spinning factory - business center
      APTO named after Dzerzhinsky - business center
      Almaty May 1 sewing factory - bank
      and this is not a complete list only in Alma-Ata
      1. -2
        23 January 2013 16: 14
        apparently kasymchik is that you set a minus out of a big mind, but weakly refute it according to the examples I have given ?! laughing
      2. Jet
        +1
        23 January 2013 18: 25
        Unfortunately it's true. Recognize in Russia, too, there were such excesses. But this is not a reason to support the explicit provocateur Eilryna, and naturally does not give the right to claim Baikonur.
      3. Marek Rozny
        +2
        24 January 2013 22: 16
        Vasilenko,

        "In 2013, it is planned to introduce 130 industrial projects in Kazakhstan, Tengrinews.kz reports from a meeting dedicated to the results of 2012 and the tasks of implementing the" Strategy 2050 "with the participation of the President with the participation of the Head of State, which is being held in Akorda.

        "This year, it is planned to introduce about 130 projects, including: a new ferroalloy plant in Aktobe; production of baked anodes in Pavlodar, small-section rolled products in Kostanay; reconstruction of power unit No. 6 at Aksu GRES; bitumen plant in Aktau; expansion of production capacities of Khimfarma in Shymkent; production of photovoltaic plates in Ust-Kamenogorsk and others ", - said Serik Akhmetov.

        The Prime Minister also informed the Head of State that construction of such large projects as the mineral fertilizer plant in the Zhambyl region and the full cycle automobile plant in Ust-Kamenogorsk will begin this year. It is also planned the expansion and reconstruction of Ekibastuz GRES-2.

        http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/v-2013-godu-v-kazahstane-planiruetsya-vvest

        i-130-industrialnyih-proektov-227178 /
        1. 0
          24 January 2013 22: 58
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          "In 2013, it is planned to introduce 130 industrial projects in Kazakhstan ...

          let's wait until at least 2015, but as in that saying, the chicken in the nest is a testicle in ....
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            25 January 2013 02: 37
            In my opinion, you have already been answered more than once about the running factories. Of course, you see a collapsed short circuit, your logic is clear. You will die with a hiss: "just a little bit more, mambets, and you will crawl to me - Vladimir Vasilenko on his knees"))))))))))
            Left and left. Stop being angry with someone. Nobody but you is to blame for your problems. I understand other interlocutors who shout here "We taught you to shit," although he knows nothing about KZ and has never been here. This can be cured. But you are only self-healing. Medicine is powerless here ... Take it as a fact that you turned out to be useless and uninteresting to anyone in KZ - personally your fault and your problem. Normal Russian people who benefit society and the country are people who are deservedly respected among Kazakhs and other Kazakhstanis. And the balabols tryndyaschie "and I'm already sitting on the suitcase .... and I'm thinking of leaving ..." are not interesting to anyone. They will not wait "oh, Vasya, who are you leaving us for! Stay, darling, do not deprive us of your radiance." You are not needed here, did not you find yourself in KZ? Go wherever you want. But no, they will leave and continue to play gunning: "Ungrateful Kazakhs, they did not appreciate me! They themselves do not understand who they have lost!" Who nafig in KZ needed you? Neither the Kazakhs nor our Russians. And that is why it is insulting and I want to imagine that it is not your fault, and that the Kazakhs allegedly did not see such a bright and priceless little man ...
            1. -3
              25 January 2013 10: 15
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Nobody except you is to blame for your problems

              you are sick? where did you get that i have problems?
              1. Marek Rozny
                -1
                25 January 2013 16: 48
                Calm, only calm)))) Pull yourself together. Count to 100. You don't have to worry. If there is someone nearby, ask for tea. You can also switch to something soothing, like reading a book or listening to classical music. Vova, take care of yourself. We need you as a model. Go to bed early today. And no internet before bed! Categorically! This is not a joke, but it can seriously affect your digestion. And I ask you, Vova, do not escalate the situation, you already have few nerve cells. And there are still legions of notorious "Kazakh nationalists" ahead. And with all you have to leave the poop.
                Take care of yourself, Senya!
    2. +1
      23 January 2013 15: 56
      Nomad, salam! Try not to answer like Eilryn and Vasilenko. Such in our youth we rested and made outcasts. And they called them Cheryami and Byk.mi. Because they are not responsible for their words. Both believe that the Kazakhstanis did not deserve to have a spaceport. They are trying in every possible way to belittle us and our capabilities. But because both were humiliated here. They are not patriots. And in no team such take root. Be above them, brother. Good luck to you !
      1. 0
        23 January 2013 16: 13
        Quote: Kasym
        Because they are not responsible for their words

        and you are my friend ham, well, except that liar
        After all, it’s you who blurted out that the rent for the complex goes to the accounts of the city budget, however, after I provided a link to the document for the formation of this budget, you decided to leave the answer, so that for starters, as you said in my childhood, you answered
        Quote: Kasym
        Both believe that the Kazakhstanis did not deserve to have a spaceport.

        Quote: Kasym
        They try in every possible way to belittle us and our capabilities

        if you don’t give an example with similar wishes, you will be answered again
        1. +4
          24 January 2013 21: 03
          Vasilenko to Vladimir. You supported a lout who claims that Kazakhs can live only by stealing color. met. and sell it. They insulted the whole country and its people. This is not rudeness and arrogance on your part? No wonder this koment. deleted (at least for me). And now essentially:
          1) What is the city budget, regional, republican know or not? What does my family, street, city, region or other cities of Kazakhstan see from the activities of the cosmodrome? I will answer: nothing !!! 115 mil. goes to maintain the efficiency of the city (without which the spaceport will not work), which brings profit to RUSSIA! And you write it yourself.
          I understand when the US pays for the Manas airfield. The money goes to the republican budget, and from there throughout the republic. Or Russia for Gabala or Kant. Therefore, I affirm that the KAZAKHSTANTS SEE NOTHING FROM THE ACTIVITIES OF COSMODROM !!! What is not clear here !!! They see only those Kazakhstanis who are engaged in the maintenance of the cosmodrome, or the maintenance of those who are employed at the cosmodrome. There are no other industries there, the city is subsidized for Kazakhstan, but not for Russia. Roskosmos spends less than 5% of its budget on the cosmodrome. Moreover, money comes from our republican budget, i.e. and mine, as a taxpayer !!! Let it be few, but they go. I THINK THAT BRINGED THIS QUESTION !!! AND ANSWERED FOR OWN WORDS !!!
          2) Aksakal gives you specific surnames and the name of the company where the Russians worked and who remained here after its closure. And you ask him for specifics? Where is the logic ?
          And if it’s deeper, then our taxes are lower (for example, VAT is 12% versus 18%. For example, for a company with a cell phone, this is a difference - huge amounts of money). That is, the conditions are better, the business climate. And if you fall under any state. program, then preferential lending. After creating There. Union in Almaty every day I see cars with growing. numbers; before it was not or very rare. I have a friend in the Ministry of Justice - at first there was no day for anyone to register to grow. company. . What will you answer?
          3) Your list of enterprises, which can be increased: JETYSU, STANDARD, MEREY, March 8, a sewing factory. An unknowing person has the idea that they have branded. But the question is: Is this product in demand? They tried not to take shoes from Dzhetysu even in villages. Did you wear it? Not ? And I do! And Merey’s furniture - in a year, two doors fell off! You intentionally brought this list to convince other colleagues of our squalor! What answer?
          But they kept the shop of the Kirov factory, which collects torpedoes for the Navy of RUSSIA, thereby supporting the power of the fleet! WHAT IT DOES NOT WRITE !!! We have no access to the sea, why do we need it? IN KAZAKHSTAN, WHOLE INDUSTRIES ARE OPENING, which, unfortunately, did not exist under the USSR. ALUMINUM and products from it, BUILDING MATERIALS, ROLLING COMPOSITION FOR RAILWAY, etc.
          4) Regarding the TV assembly plant, which the president allegedly opened and then closed quietly. Type "production of LG Kazakhstan" in Google and you will see not only this plant, but also other capacities. And not just a screwdriver assembly, but also chip production and much more. And at the expense of the plant located on Rozabakiev - try to explain, for example, to Muscovites about a similar plant on Rublevka. So they just moved it and equipped it, increased its capacity several times. What is your answer?
          Well, so who met ??? I agree that my post is too incorrect - could not stand it, it is unpleasant to hear all this from a fellow countryman !!! The day before, I was responding to arrivals until 4 a.m. And about kasymchik - I think even, drove through. As for the minuses - already wrote !!!
          1. -1
            24 January 2013 22: 48
            Quote: Kasym
            Moreover, money is still coming from our republican budget, i.e. and mine as a taxpayer !!!

            I don’t even know how to answer you already, once again for the gifted I quote from the DOCUMENT, not from your gossip and notions, but from the official piece of paper
            Article 12
            The financial resources of the city of Baikonur

            1. The financial resources of the city consist of funds from the city budget and extrabudgetary and currency funds formed by the city administration. At the same time, funds from earmarked extra-budgetary funds (pension, social insurance, employment, medical insurance) are not included in the city budget.
            2. City budget revenues consist of:
            revenue from the federal budget of the Russian Federation for the maintenance of the city of Baikonur;
            receipts from the republican budget of the Republic of Kazakhstan on providing benefits provided to the legislation of the Republic of Kazakhstan to citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstanaffected by environmental disasters; (talk about the problems of citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan should be solved by Kazakhstan, not Russia)
            taxes on property of individuals, land tax, registration fee from individuals engaged in entrepreneurial activity in the city, at rates stipulated by the legislation of the Russian Federation;
            rent for subleased buildings, structures, other property owned and owned by the city administration;
            income from shares owned by the city, other securities, shares (deposits) in joint-stock companies and limited liability companies, from interest payments for the provision of loans by the city;
            taxes, including value added tax, income tax, excise taxes, state duty, and other income in the city.
            The budget deficit of the city of Baikonur is covered by subsidies, subventions and subsidies from the federal budget in the manner determined by the Government of the Russian Federation.
            3. When approving the budget, the planned excess of income over expenses, as well as the excess obtained in the course of budget execution as a result of overfulfillment of income or cost savings, remains in the city budget and is sent by the head of administration for additional financing of the city's regional and social programs.
            4. The spending of the city budget funds is carried out with the participation and under the control of the Russian-Kazakh intergovernmental commission on the Baikonur complex. The report on the use of funds from the city budget is approved by the Government of the Russian Federation.


            and now tell me how do you taxpayer of the Republic of Kazakhstan suffer from the fact that money is allocated from the budget of the Russian Federation? !!!!
            1. -1
              24 January 2013 22: 56
              Quote: Kasym
              Vasilenko to Vladimir. You supported a lout who claims that Kazakhs can live only by stealing color. met. and sell it. They insulted the whole country and its people. This is not rudeness and arrogance on your part? No wonder this koment. deleted (at least for me)

              let’s with quotes, but it’s somehow solid
              Quote: Kasym
              I will answer: nothing !!! 115 mil. goes to maintain the health of the city (without this, the spaceport will not work)
              Sorry, but you are already tired, 115 million go to the budget of Kazakhstan, where they go further is not a problem for Russia
              Quote: Kasym
              then my family, street, city, region or other cities of Kazakhstan sees from the activities of the cosmodrome?
              contact the min fin rk
              Quote: Kasym
              I understand when the US pays for the Manas airfield. The money goes to the republican budget, and from there throughout the republic. Or Russia for Gabala or Kant
              are you dumb ?! I'm sorry for being straightforward, but these nonsense has already weakened, you can continue to bliss that 115 million go to the Budget of Baikonur, but the agreement and documents say otherwise
              Kasym,
              Quote: Kasym
              Roscosmos spends less than 5% of its budget on the cosmodrome

              and what, are you a shareholder of Roskosmos ?! NOT
              1. +3
                24 January 2013 23: 24
                TO THE BUDGET OF THE CITY OF BAIKONUR. NOT IN THE REPUBLICAN BUDGET. THIS YOU WITH A HEAD I DO NOT SEE EVERYTHING ORDER. TEACH THE ECONOMY. SEE THE AGREEMENT YOU PUBLISHED. FROM THE REPUBLICAN TO THE REGION, FROM HERE TO THE CITY. BUT NOT THE VERSION, SO A CITY IS SUBSIDIARY, IT IS NOT ALMA-ATA, WHICH IS A DONOR FOR OTHER REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY. THAT IS REPUBLICAN DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING. And who is dumb? NAZARBAYEV (BTW, GIVING AN INTERVIEW TOGETHER WITH PUTIN) EXPLAINED THAT 115 mil. SPEND ON NEEDS OF THE CITY AND THE BAIKONUR SPACE AND THAT THIS NUMBER IS TAKEN NOT FROM THE CEILING, AND AFTER THE COST RESPONSIBILITY WITH RUSSIA OF THE CITY THAT THE REPUBLIC OF THIS MONEY DOES NOT SEE. I do not know how to explain yet.
                ABOUT QUOTATION - SEE. COMMENTS EILRYN whom you supported.
                ABOUT ROSKOSMOS. NOT UNDERSTOOD . I HAVE SEEN THAT 5% IS NOT CRITICAL FOR ROSOSMOS.
                1. -1
                  24 January 2013 23: 46
                  Quote: Kasym
                  HERE IN CITY

                  go to the swamp with your own budget. The budget of Baikonur is being funded from completely different means, if you cannot read or understand what you read, then your problems and do not load others
                  Quote: Kasym
                  EXPLAINED THAT 115 mil. SPEND ON NEEDS OF THE CITY AND THE BAIKONUR SPACE AND THAT THIS NUMBER IS TAKEN NOT FROM THE CEILING, AND AFTER THE COST RESPONSIBILITY WITH RUSSIA OF THE CITY THAT THE REPUBLIC OF THIS MONEY DOES NOT SEE. I do not know how to explain yet.

                  now I don’t give a damn where these nazik grandmothers are stuffing, they are transferred to the budget of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Baikonur is a city of federal significance and the money is allocated by the BUDGET of the Russian Federation in addition to the rent for the complex, the budget of Baikonur of the Republic of Kazakhstan allocates money to maintain its CITIZENS
          2. -2
            24 January 2013 23: 36
            Quote: Kasym
            Aksakal gives you specific surnames and the name of the company where the Russians worked and who remained here after its closure. And you ask him for specifics? Where is the logic ?

            aksakal said where they worked before (in subsidiaries of Ross companies) I asked where they work now
            Quote: Kasym
            (for example, VAT is 12% versus 18%. For example, for a company of cell communication, this is a difference - huge amounts of money). That is, the conditions are better

            True, VAT in the Republic of Kazakhstan is paid from the sale and the benefit is only for trading enterprises (if you certainly understand what it is about)
            Quote: Kasym
            Your list of enterprises that can be increased: JETYSU, STANDARD, MEREI, March 8, a sewing factory. An unknowing person has the idea that they have branded. But the question is: Is this product in demand? They tried not to take shoes from Dzhetysu even in villages. Did you wear it? Not ?

            Well, in fact, I wore it in childhood, you will rub in on me about the lack of demand for tircotage from the "Dzerdinka", or about the bad products of the "first bike" equipped with modern French equipment. on the basis of radio engineering ?!
            Quote: Kasym
            And Merey’s furniture - in a year, two doors fell off!

            By the way, by the way, you crap one’s deeply fucked up.
            Quote: Kasym
            Atoms have preserved the Kirov plant’s workshop, which collects torpedoes for the Russian Navy

            In general, the situation at the Kirov plant is extremely strange, especially against the background of the processes of active industrial modernization that are taking place in the economy of Kazakhstan. For a long time, factory assets — workshops, land plots — have been sold out in stages (most often transferred as debts) to various LLPs. The performance of the plant is falling, the contracts are terminated. The team has a strong impression of deliberate destruction and bringing the company to bankruptcy Internet newspaper http://www.zonakz.net
            Plant them. Kirova in Almaty, Kazakhstan, has been falling apart for about 20 years and every year his position is becoming increasingly hopeless. Who is to blame and what to do?
            http://zavod-kirova.narod.ru/

            HOPE ANSWERED
            Quote: Kasym
            About the TV assembly plant, which the president allegedly opened and then closed quietly. Type "LG Kazakhstan production" in Google and you will see not only this plant, but also other capacities

            in general, he talked about JV Zavod NAM LLP
            http://www.salyk.kz/ru/pages/findtaxpayers.aspx а вот на этой странице Налогового комитета Министерства финансов Республики Казахстан сея организация признана БЕЗДЕЙСТВУЮЩЕЙ
            Quote: Kasym
            Well, so who met ???

            I hope you guess yourself smile
            1. +3
              25 January 2013 00: 29
              In the same cellular company that changed owners - is it really not clear.
              VAT stands for value added tax. You import or buy raw materials on the spot for an enterprise PAY VAT, pay for a service, for example, a notary, pay VAT. Even if you have a "free warehouse" or "free economic zone" regime, then in the end you pay VAT after the sale. Will you show me who does not pay this tax? I know a bunch of ways to avoid paying other taxes, but not this one. I was somehow summoned to the tax office because of 150 tenge of unpaid VAT tax.
              Part of the premises of the Merey factory was converted into retail space and I paid attention to quality. And now other (mostly imported) materials and accessories. And also tobacco, warts. factory, tea packing factory, etc. etc. . The market. This is the right of the owner.
              In general, I had something else in mind and blamed YOU for something else. Read my comment. . And do not distort !!! I wrote about your true purpose regarding the enterprises of Almaty.
              US was organized by the Korean diaspora - I do not know such a brand in Korea, at least. And this was done to attract core. companies in Kazakhstan. In the future, the equipment from this enterprise, and the workers went to LG (our correspondent of the Diaspora naturally cannot compete with LG). And your opus had a completely different meaning !!! Type opened - closed (where the Kazakhs to master this). And we are already mastering the assembly of boxes. auto.
              And I know who is not responsible for their words. AND THE GOALS OF YOUR COMMENTS I ALREADY DISCLOSED. RELAX . DO NOT WANT GOOD, WILL NOT MEAN WITH YOU ANY DISCUSSION. DESTINATED AND OFFENDED YOU ARE OUR. SHORT, GO TO GET.
              1. -1
                25 January 2013 00: 43
                Quote: Kasym
                VAT - value added tax

                I know better than you what VAT is, only in the Republic of Kazakhstan it is paid with REALIZATION minus payments confirmed by tax invoices, not value added is taxed (as it was in the early stages of this tax) and the entire turnover is not confirmed by invoices, salary, all kinds of unforeseen expenses, etc.
                Quote: Kasym
                I know a bunch of ways to avoid paying other taxes, but not this one.

                apparently you are not involved in business, avoiding VAT is very simple, but I won’t tell you
                Quote: Kasym
                I wrote about your true purpose regarding the enterprises of Almaty.

                and what is my true purpose ?!
                Quote: Kasym
                US was organized by the Korean diaspora - I do not know such a brand in Korea, at least. And this was done to attract core. companies in Kazakhstan. In the future, the equipment from this enterprise, and the workers went to LG (our correspondent of the Diaspora naturally cannot compete with LG). And your opus had a completely different meaning !!! Type opened - closed (where Kazakhs can master this)
                firstly, the company simply disappeared, in addition I did not say a word about the Kazakhs, I spoke exclusively about the fact that the current leadership of the Republic of Kazakhstan did everything to destroy the industry that it inherited from the Union
                Quote: Kasym
                DESTINATED AND OFFENDED YOU ARE OUR. SHORT, GO TO GET.
                you’ll poke and be rude to your mom and dad if they raised you like that, boor, he’s hot in the steppe even in the town
                1. +4
                  25 January 2013 09: 09
                  In small business since 1998. , so I don’t need to push about VAT. You think idiots are in Finpol and don’t know about gray schemes, there is a special demand for this tax. The trifle is saved by the fact that the President announced MORORITIES FOR SMALL BUSINESS CHECKS, and for about ten years no checks are another argument in favor of doing business in the KZ. What we draw in the reports is checked. And if you take serious checks, then all the little things would disappear in a year. I can count as a candidate of physical sciences and had 17 years. practice at the head university of KZ. And do not fool around that you do not understand the difference between 12% and 18%. And if you only do what you run from taxes, then what good is Russia for you. A temporary worker, an opportunist no more.
                  Your goal is to make us sheep in front of normal people, like a former KZ citizen, and therefore an informed person. But at the same time you substitute yourself. See the rest in my comment. I’m not going to repeat myself.
                  Gone is releasing a couple of TVs. Yeah, number 1 at Nazarbayev, number 2 at my house. And then they closed it. At least this plant worked for a couple of years. And how do you answer for your words? And about the industry. Our money was piling up from our pockets and because of stupidity we ruined everything and did not pay salaries to state employees and asked for help at the IMF. But seriously: what was vital and necessary (for example, the same Baikonur.) Tried to maintain this fact. When I chewed you about the budget (see my own link to the contract: the city’s internal income from rent, taxes, etc. (but this is a trifle, because there are no large enterprises) + from the budget of the Russian Federation + from the budget of KZ), you You’re arguing Nazarbayev, saying that I don’t care and that’s the point. Like an ostrich who hid his head in the sand. Oh well . I haven’t written to you already that we want to refuse to rent. And to make Baikonur cease to be subsidized, and bring income to the country's treasury. What do you answer - you yourself go away from the answer.
                  I ran through the comments again. About your opus about a Kazakh fight with a Uighur. And what did you want to say with this work? What do Kazakhs Uyghurs throughout the KZ drive or vice versa Uyghurs Kazakhs? It is in Russia that skinheads kill newcomers, and sometimes their own, because of a cut in their eyes or skin color. I think you will dig out the Old. So, they didn’t go from a sick head to a healthy one. This is a real provocation. Well, WHO ARE YOU AFTER THIS?
                  About 86 years. Armored personnel carriers and schools. Next to the New Square, school number 23 is 100 meters away. There I studied the floor of the yard: Abdulins Marat and Timur, Dzhakupov Daniyar, Kushekbaev Bolat, Zhelkaydarov Serik and others; school No. 120: Ospanov Yerbol, Khon Sasha, Baimbetov Nurlan, Murat; School No. 56: Sarmasaevs Aset and Somat, Ualiev Zair. All of them will confirm that you are a liar and a chatterbox. He himself was an eyewitness of those events.
                  When you supported EILRYN with hidden implications, I answered you with the same coin. Nevertheless, he apologized not to spoil the relationship. I thought you’ll go to smooth the situation. But you popped like a bull on a red rag, and even sent it to the swamp. And what did you expect from me? You are HAM, PROVOCATOR and REDISKA - A GOOD PERSON.
                  A BEAUTIFUL YOU MAREK ROZNY LOST !!! JUST HANDSOME !!! ONE WICKET AND WITHOUT CHANCE FOR YOU !!! 1 ++++++++++ from me.
                  1. +2
                    25 January 2013 09: 58
                    And further . At Baikonur, Russian bureaucrats control all expenses. I imagine that it would be if KZ had pawed 115 mil. .
  36. +1
    23 January 2013 16: 09
    Chocks.
    Children's complexes come out: you, too, like people.
  37. Jet
    +1
    23 January 2013 17: 17
    Oh guys, I’ll go better to read about tanks and planes, otherwise it’s not easy to give in to countless provocations, but I don’t feel like going down to the level of goats). And then Ukrainians got off topic). At THIS forum, thanks to you, I will soon become a complete Russophobe ... But I can’t be like that anyway). And then you wonder - where do they come from ?! You create them yourself .. Good luck to everyone!
    PS "RUSSIA FOR RUSSIANS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. -2
      23 January 2013 18: 25
      Again, examples in the studio, or as always modestly silent?
  38. Jet
    +4
    23 January 2013 19: 10
    You carefully read the entire forum. to me personally, every offensive sentence hurts my eyes. the most severe moderator deleted at my request, but had to delete without it. for many, apparently this is normal, because they share this point of view and therefore do not pay attention. and don’t take it personally.
    1. Jet
      +2
      23 January 2013 20: 00
      They deleted statements like "Lumps are climbing into the world" and so on, and from what they did not delete, the following conclusions can be drawn: that they say so and so, "Nazarbayev is still that political prostitute, in his old age he completely fell from an oak tree, imagined himself to be a new Ataturk, but nothing This heap of mongrels will not work because greed has ruined the frayer, and they will not make themselves anything except hemorrhoids. And in general, the Kazakhs were the first to rebel against the Russians in the Union! And why are they renaming Russian cities? For example, Guryev and Uralsk. A separate topic is "Kazakh fascism", about "what humiliation and constant violence the Russians are subjected to there, how they are reduced to the status of slaves in Kazakhstan, and that there is nothing of yours at all, we should be grateful to the Russians just for the fact that we live and do not lie in the grave like the American Indians . "etc. and so on. All these" exercises in fiction "and many others can be found on this forum. For some reason, the moderator considers all this to be normal, as the other participants did not even object. But !!! ... if onlyinstead of the word "Kazakh" there would be the word "Russian", I would be quartered and cursed up to the 7th knee ...
      1. -1
        23 January 2013 20: 08
        Quote: Jet
        And in general, the Kazakhs were the first against the Russians in the Union! And why are they renaming Russian cities? For example, Guryev and Uralsk.

        But what about cities, is that not true?
        about 86 already tired I was an eyewitness of those events and forgive me there was plenty of frenzied nationalism
        Quote: Jet
        you should be grateful to the Russians just for living and not lying in the grave like the American Indians. "

        I advise you to read the comments of some Kazakh national governments, and the fact that nationalism has a place in the Republic of Kazakhstan is also a fact
        1. Jet
          +1
          23 January 2013 20: 29
          Sorry, but what does "Russian cities" mean in Kazakhstan ?! Don't you think this definition is strange? Let us decide for ourselves how to name settlements on our territory) I don’t even want to discuss the rest, some comments on some forums (immediately deleted) do not give the right to insult the nation as a whole with impunity. This is already overt fascism.
          1. -2
            23 January 2013 22: 08
            Quote: Jet
            they do not give the right to insult the nation as a whole with impunity.

            did someone insult the nation as a whole?
            Quote: Jet
            some comments on some forums (immediately deleted),

            read zakon.kz or azyttyk, there they’re not only not deleted, but also rude statements about Russia and Russians
            Quote: Jet
            Sorry, but what does "Russian cities" mean in Kazakhstan ?!

            no offense, but no fooling around
            Quote: Jet
            Let us decide how to name the settlements on our territory.
            unequivocally, by ourselves, but only the opinion of the Russians living in these cities is no less decisive than the opinion of the Kazakhs
        2. pavlo007
          -5
          24 January 2013 12: 08
          Well, about the Indians, it's me.
          So what? I just said that if Kazakhstan, like other national outskirts, were oppressed colonies, as the Kazakhs shout, then most of the local population would be destroyed, as was done in the United States. And for the fact that this did not happen, the Kazakhs should be grateful to the Russians. All "civilized" nations did just that during colonization.
          What are the claims to what I said? I just stated a fact, no more.
          This is such an interesting Russian colonialism - to come and not shoot sepoys with cannons, but to build schools, hospitals, invest in infrastructure and get confused to raise the level of development of the indigenous nation.

          Yes, and didn’t the collapse of the USSR begin with the Kazakhs? It was the events of 1986 that served as a fuse for the collapse of the country that occurred 5 years later.
          And a very good excuse for the events of 1986 slipped - we were appointed the first secretary that we didn’t like, and for this reason we decided to cut out. So what? who after this is a fascist?
        3. Marek Rozny
          +1
          24 January 2013 22: 43
          Vasilenko,
          1) regarding renaming. Firstly, whose cow would moo ... Where are the Finnish names for the settlements of the Leningrad Region? Where are the Turkic names of the settlements of Crimea, where are the German names of the Volga region? It is possible to list the number of names of us. Points renamed into Russian not even in hundreds, but in thousands. Moreover, they renamed non-Russian names not only during the USSR, but also during the Romanovs. Or can Russian onomasts indulge and only be offended by Kazakhs?
          In addition, Guryev returned the historical name of the area. Yes, the city was founded by Russian immigrants, but the Kazakhs have always called this place Atyrau.
          Uralsk is the same Russian word as "cybernetic". The river is called "Oral". The Kazakhs do not have the word "Ural" in the Kazakh language. This is generally the Bashkir name of the river. If the Kazakhs really wanted to rename the city in Kazakh, they would rename it to "Zhaiyk" (the original Kazakh name of the river; the Russians used the Tatar version of this hydronym - "Yaik" before the Pugachev revolt).
          2) About 1986. I remember how you hinted that the Kazakhs allegedly stormed the school, which the soldiers with armored personnel carriers had to defend)))) You still didn’t bother to explain why the Kazakhs were attacking the institution))))) Apparently they were looking for Kolbin there )))))
          3) And what can we refer to the comments of someone somewhere on the network, if here on the site of chauvinist shouts and outright anger on the part of representatives of the neighboring northern state - above the roof. Thanks to the admins for finally starting to clean it up. I myself was an admin on some sites - I understand what a hell of a job it is to clean up comments. Have you, Vladimir, here on the site met an insult from the Kazakhs towards any nation? Against Russians, Armenians, Jews, Caucasians, Uzbeks or anyone else? Let's not measure everyone by our own yardstick. If you are an outspoken chauvinist (although, of course, you will deny and prove that you are a true internationalist, well, or at least - treating other nations in a complimentary manner), then you should not make Kazakhs into Natsiks. In Kazakhstan, no one will dare to march through the streets with "Kazakh marches", demand the deportation of non-titular ones and so on. Even your deputies openly talk about their xenophobia, and it’s your people who are constantly being killed on ethnic grounds. And in KZ this was not and is not. Although people like you see "Kazakh nationalism" everywhere - even in the alphabet))))
          1. +2
            24 January 2013 23: 37
            Marek Rozny. ZEMLYAK, I'm sorry, I will add. According to the constitution, the creation of parties and public organizations according to the NATIONAL SIGN is PROHIBITED. THAT IS ALL SHAVES THERE WITH BITS AND WITH THE NATSIAN SYMBOL DO NOT MEET, unlike, unfortunately, from RUSSIA. PARTY TYPE OF PARTY OF EDUARD LEMONOV DO NOT MEET - AND THIS IS A FACT. OTHERWISE, TIME and not small.
            1. 0
              24 January 2013 23: 52
              Quote: Kasym
              According to the constitution, the creation of parties and public organizations according to the NATIONAL SIGN
              Well, it’s also forbidden in Russia

              Quote: Kasym
              PARTY TYPE OF PARTY OF EDUARD LEMONOV DO NOT MEET - AND THIS IS A FACT. OTHERWISE, TIME and not small

              According to the chairman of the Zheltoksan 86 movement, Gulbakhram Zhunis, national minorities in the republic have the right to take part in the country's politics if they do not get involved in big politics. Kazakhstan is the land of the Kazakhs, she is sure, which means that it is necessary that the Kazakhs have their own leader, do not tell someone they have brought to justice for this statement? !!!!
              1. Marek Rozny
                +4
                25 January 2013 02: 56
                Vasilenko, here are her words:
                Mikhail PAK talks with the chairman of the Zheltoksan 86 movement Gulbakhram ZHUNIS:

                “... Now let's talk about the Russian person in Kazakh politics. If you remember, when we came to the Alma-Ata square in December 1986, our main slogan was: "Each nation has its own leader!" Not a single Kazakh in other countries - and representatives of the titular nationality in Kazakhstan live in different states - does not trample the pride of other nations. Doesn't provoke. Russia is the land of Russians. Uzbekistan is the land of the Uzbeks. And Kazakhstan is the land of the Kazakhs!

                - It seems that national minorities have no options.

                - Why, in ministers, deputies - let them go! Each nation should have its own leader. Should Putin or Medvedev come to Kazakhstan, and Nazarbayev will head Russia? Will Russia agree to such an exchange? Not!".
                ========
                And what you wrote is a distortion by the Russian media. Kazakhstan is the land of the Kazakhs. Not "for Kazakhs". And in the sense of "primordially Kazakh land". Or are you one of those uneducated people who think that these are Russian lands?
                And the fact that she believes that "every nation should have its own leader" is a homely truth, to which every Russian citizen of Russia here on the forum will subscribe. And her indignation was caused by a specific person - Mr. Kozlov from the "democratic" opposition, which is financed almost openly by the Americans, and who does not know the state language, and even therefore has no right to run for president under the Constitution. This is not only in Kazakhstan, it is so in any country in the world. I will be surprised if the Russians agree to some Ingush Mamedov, who absolutely does not speak Russian, become the president of Russia. Even a bazaar-colloquial version with accents. Doesn't own it at all.
                Stop dusting already, Vasilenko.
                1. +4
                  25 January 2013 09: 43
                  MAREK ROZNY, Salem! Cool you him, in one gate !!! +++++++++++++++ !!! WELL AND REDDISK SAME IT !!! And BY YOUR COMMENTS, I AM JUST ATTENDANT - EVERYTHING ON THE MATTER AND AT THE MOST POINT !!! WITH GRATITUDE, YOUR PLANTER IS DAUREN !!!
                2. -1
                  25 January 2013 14: 23
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  And Kazakhstan is the land of Kazakhs!

                  everything, you expressed your opinion clearly and concisely, and all your efforts that ALL PEOPLES OF MULTINATIONAL KAZAKHSTAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS THIS LIE AND FICTION, there are more equal and less equal today you do not allow Russians to run for president, tomorrow you will forbid you to hold public office, and then what ? !!!
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  I’m surprised if the Russians agree that some Ingush Mammadov, who absolutely does not speak Russian, becomes the president of Russia.

                  you do not play the fool and do not mow under the moron, firstly, Kazlov clearly and distinctly said that by the time of the election the state language would be known, the question was not the language but the nationality, in addition, the Kazakh ball was a candidate for president of the Russian Federation and no one dared to put him rebuke his nationality.
                  because of Nazis like you, I left RK
                  If you remember, when we came to the Alma-Ata square in December 1986, our main slogan was: "Each nation has its own leader!"
                  I hope after the revelations of the PARTICIPANTS of those events you will stop chewing snot about the absence of a nationalist background
                  as always, in the best spirit of the political leaders, you are trying to wrap shit in a beautiful candy wrapper and tell everyone what a delicious sweetie this quote was taken from the Kazakhstan portal http://kub.kz/kazakhstan/8170-po-mneniju-predsedatelja-dvizhenija-zheltoksan-86 .
                  html and has no relation to the Russian media
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    25 January 2013 15: 37
                    1) Everyone has the same rights in Kazakhstan. But Kazakhs have more responsibilities than others. We are the titular nation - and it depends on us how all other ethnic groups will coexist in the country. This is our land (do not confuse it with the expression "land for us") and we must build a scheme of relations between all ethnic groups in the country so that not a single Kazakh, Russian or Uighur violates the rights of another person. And do not confuse all this with the concept of the state language. We have one state language - Kazakh. But at the same time, the rights of other Kazakhstanis are not infringed upon. If you want to study in Russian, please. If you want to get an answer from the government agency in Russian, please. If you want to go to the Russian theater, please. All educational, cultural and government services are available to you in Russian. Kazakhs understand that it takes time for the Russians to change their attitude towards the state language and therefore do not spoil the fever. Everything has its time.
                    2) Kozlov didn’t say anything. And the hedgehog is understandable that this provocateur simply pursued one goal - to split the society, to turn one part of the population against the other (On the one hand: What kind of garbage is a non-Kazakh-speaking president? And on the other hand: Why can not Russian become president?). Kozlov will never know the Kazakh language, because he is an enemy of Kazakhstan. Puppet in the wrong hands. And to compare it with Aman Tuleev, whom all of Kemerovo is ready to carry in her arms - is not even worth it. By the way, only Kemerovo voted for him (and ethnic Kazakhs). The remaining regions did not vote for him. So look for the answer to the question why - either the candidate is bad, or the Russians did not want some foreigner to rule Russia. And Tuleyev doesn’t have to ponte about the fact that he will learn the state Russian language at the time of the election, he speaks it brilliantly.
                    And you left because the Nazi himself. And the Kazakhs made it clear to you that such tips are not needed here. We do not have a mono-ethnic state, but a country in which almost half the foreigners live. And we have other requirements for maintaining calm in the country. You can easily set fire to the wick of nationalism, but then you put out the stew. Here you are a typical arsonist and instigator. And the majority of Russian Kazakhstanis are quite friendly and adequate people whom I would not want to part with.
                    3) The source of these phrases is www.regnum.ru dated November 3, 2010. And the CUB just reprinted these formulations the next day. Go wash again.
                    1. -1
                      25 January 2013 16: 21
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      It is a no brainer that this provocateur simply pursued one goal - to split the society, set one part of the population against the other (On the one hand: What the hell is a non-Kazakh-speaking president? And on the other hand: Why can't Russians become president?). Kozlov will never know the Kazakh language

                      What is the provocation that he is Russian ?!
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      The source of these phrases is www.regnum.ru dated November 3, 2010. And the CUB just reprinted these formulations the next day. Go wash again.

                      Apparently it is you dirty and unwashed Natsik who published an interview with this Kazakh "clara tselkin".

                      BakuToday News: It seems that national minorities have no options.
                      Why, in ministers, deputies - let them go!

                      Details: http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1342868.html#ixzz2IzdiWS62
                      Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM news agency.

                      Do you think it’s normal that Russians don’t have the right to occupy certain posts ?! Yes or no
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        25 January 2013 17: 43
                        Well, if you are stupid about Kazakh politics, why bother looking for answers to the question "Who is Kozlov?" He is a provocateur not because he is Russian or Yakut, but because he is a representative of those forces that rock the boat. Both the Anglo-Saxons and the ethnic Kazakh, the fugitive oligarch Ablyazov, stand behind him without encryption. Kozlov made a lot of efforts to arrange the Zhanaozen events. He is a puppet. Do not puff on this topic, if not in the subject. Why are you hooked on Kozlov, unknown to you, if in Kazakhstan he is known as a provocateur and executor of someone else's will? You just want to spend time with me for the sake of arguing with me? Thank you, flattered. And if you just want to seem smart, then, alas, ALL Kazakhs on the forum have already seen your face. Natsik, shovik, and just an amateur in politics and economy of Kazakhstan. The fact that you have lived here for some time, unfortunately, did not make you either an expert on the Kazakh mentality and culture, or an expert in the above-mentioned areas. Only bile and arrogance comes from you. Okay, I would be the only Natsik, as you think, but does it bother you that all Kazakhs on the forum consider you a Natsik? Is there really not a single non-Nazi among the Kazakhs? Why here on the forum not a single Kazakh throws poop at the Russian nation, but unanimously recognizes you, smouk, dust and a few other brothers in your mind - chauvinugs? Do you want to wonder why all Kazakhs are sick of you? And I can imagine how Kazakhs in Kazakhstan were sick of you during live communication ... Thanks again for getting out of here. It's a pity I didn't know you then, otherwise I would have given money for tickets so that I could quickly clear the territory for normal Kazakhstanis of all nationalities.
                        2) A modestly silent about the Russian media, the source? Although it looks like to you to frown, but immediately switch to new topics. Well, come on, you get a discount)
                        Now regarding the statements. To begin with, this woman is not at all any significant character in Kazakh politics. A very limited number of Kazakhstanis know her name. She does not affect anything, she simply expresses her opinion as it is. It is foolish to attribute her words (good or bad) to the government of Kazakhstan or to the voice of the people.
                        Secondly. Her words: "I root for any nation that respects us, Kazakhs. In many films I starred with great Russian actors. I still communicate with them. I can't say that I hate everyone. But I am ready to destroy people like Kozlov. ". In principle, she thinks just like any Kazakh - specifically. As I told you before, that I respect the Russian nation, but it’s you, Vova, for me, bullshit and an enemy with all the consequences.
                        A woman is a woman for that she could not stand it and spoke in one fell swoop differently after the Kozlov comedy with a run. In addition, she has a real reason to react like that - she really suffered during the December events when this Kolbin was appointed here. How will she react to any gantry if she hates the current ethnic Kazakhs in power?
                        She is a woman, all the more affected by the Kolbin government, and is disabled. Her life did not work out that way. When a stick is bent, it is formally punished. Moreover, for such acts, her comrades-in-arms are actually imprisoned for a short time in order to cool the ardor of hot heads. It helps.
                        And let's not make a fascist out of her. If I write "Let's make a Kazakh the next president of Russia!" - I’m not that they will minus me, I’ll hear so much obscenity and insults))))))))))) Or do you expect that here on the forum Russian Russians will start applauding and chanting: "Hurray! Give Russia a non-Russian president! Bhai -bhai "?))))))))
                        Who is ready to see Nerus as President of Russia?)))) Yes, and one who does not speak Russian? )))))))))) I'm afraid I have to transplant all members of the forum)
                    2. -1
                      25 January 2013 22: 22

                      I hope that this is not a vile provocation of Russian shoviks laughing
                      everything is said clearly and clearly on the constitution, we laid parted, except for the Kazakh, no one can be president.
                      there is no nationalism in the Republic of Kazakhstan, everything is wonderful and wonderful, all around are sweet and spiritualized faces
    2. 0
      23 January 2013 20: 05
      I didn’t read the deleted ones, but it’s hard to call it an offensive statement about the collapse of industry in the Republic of Kazakhstan
      1. Jet
        0
        23 January 2013 20: 13
        I agree with the collapse of industry (some large enterprises remained, but the main income from them leaves Kazakhstan immediately.
  39. Hayots
    +1
    23 January 2013 19: 50
    Kick! They gave a minus and did not even try to answer for what smile
    1. Jet
      +1
      23 January 2013 19: 54
      this is someone mad all minus)
      1. 0
        23 January 2013 20: 09
        judging by the time of occurrence it is kasymchik
  40. Hayots
    +2
    23 January 2013 20: 20
    The people, when minus, at least sign up, but somehow it’s not manly))
  41. pavlo007
    -5
    23 January 2013 21: 28
    Although I was bombarded, it’s nice that most members of the forum realized that the Kazakh fascists who massacred Russian families in 1985 must be destroyed like mad pigs - I saw a Kazakh - kill him (MORAL- LAW ON EXTREME I WRITE !!!) !!!
  42. 0
    24 January 2013 12: 39
    Strange logic. Well, let's squeeze the Russians out of Baikonur. So does anyone really think that there will be a line of Europeans and US citizens? Let me remind you that Baikonur was territorially beneficial only to the USSR and now to Russia. But even now the EU and the Russian Federation have the Kuru cosmodrome, which allows the Fregat to carry not one and a half, but three tons of cargo. And Baikonur is popular only because the Russians launch their missiles from there like on an assembly line. Well, they will be kicked out, they will not stop launching the spacecraft, they will simply leave for another site. On the same Kuru. And then Baikonur will simply die, since it will physically not be able to compete with Russian launches from the equator.
    And this is not to mention the fact that Kazakhstan’s ability to independently develop or even maintain such an infrastructure raises great doubts.
    No offense to the Ukrainians, but just for example: they got the pipeline from the USSR. So what? It turned out that she could not afford it, she simply did not have money to develop this project. Although the economic model of its payback is much simpler than that of the cosmodrome! Nevertheless, only with political EU structures there may be money to start modernization.
    And who will give the money to Kazakhstan, when after 10 years it turns out that the fixed assets of the spaceport are on the verge of failure?
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      25 January 2013 11: 25
      ABS_alex,
      1) No one is going to kick Russia out. Do not read the Russian press before dinner. What does Kazakhstan offer Russia? Firstly, transfer control of the city itself back to Kazakhstan - Why should Russia spend money on the infrastructure of the city, especially since this is a reason for constant whining "we, Russians, maintain the whole city." Kazakhstan will easily re-engage in Baikonur, it is not such a big city, especially since 70% of the residents are Kazakhstanis, who are then difficult to integrate into ordinary Kazakhstani life (there is a problem with the standards of school education and the subsequent admission of young people to Kazakh universities). Russia does not invest in the development of the city, but only spends on maintaining the infrastructure in the required amount to ensure the existence of the adjacent cosmodrome. Let's save you this waste. We need to develop the city, pull it up further. Secondly, Kazakhstan proposes to generally remove rent for the use of the spaceport (and does not require raising the bid, as 100% of Russian commentators mistakenly believe). Instead, the management of the spaceport should be made 50 to 50. Kazakhstan does not ask Russia for money, but offers its financial contribution in the amount of half of all expenses. Here is the essence of the proposals to amend the agreement on Baikonur.
      It would seem that Russia should only support such a desire of Kazakhstan, which will save the Russian Federation from costs for the city and for renting a spaceport, and even more so, Russia should logically be glad that the Kazakhs are offering to pour money into the spaceport. BUT! Roscosmos begins to hysteria. Why? And because the new agreement will force Russia to also INVEST in the development of the cosmodrome, and Russia does not need this corny. Russia is building its own spaceport, where it intends to transfer the main launches (and on new green missiles), and use Baikonur to launch toxic missiles (and this is at best). The goal of Roscosmos is to extend time at the cosmodrome until the completion of its own cosmodrome, and after the launch is transferred to Russia, it is to prevent the use of Baikonur in the interests of other countries, including Kazakhstan. Baikonur will be virtually mothballed (or rather, plundered by analogy with all other former Russian facilities in the KZ) until the end of 2050. And there Baikonur will already be returned to the Kazakhs in a dysfunctional and irrelevant state.
      The Kazakhs are worried about Baikonur - both for the city and for the cosmodrome. Russia is not interested in their development, but wants to squeeze out everything that is possible to the maximum from the cosmodrome and block the possibility of its use by anyone.
      So let's not make Kazakhs into inadequate "exorcists" and "traitors", but let's face it - it is Russia that is preparing to kill Baikonur, not Kazakhstan.
      Well, and about the finances of Kazakhstan - do not worry. Kazakhs have more than enough money. You don’t even have to borrow from someone. And there are a lot of people who want to sell their space technology for a good amount. Both the French and Ukrainians, and Russian offices are not averse to having a jackpot from Kazakh ambitions.
  43. +1
    25 January 2013 09: 11
    Quote: pavlo007
    if Kazakhstan, like other national suburbs, were oppressed colonies, as the Kazakhs shout, then most of the local population would be destroyed, as was done in the USA.

    Firstly, all continental empires (Russia), unlike sea empires (Britain), have a more cautious policy regarding the colonies because of their close proximity to the metropolis. Secondly, the Kazakhs paid half the number for Moscow’s experiments during collectivization. I'm not talking about the alienation of the best lands by the tsarist administration in the 19th century, which is even mentioned in Soviet textbooks. So do not talk about some special kindness of the Russian state. It, like any other, at all times was guided exclusively by its own interests and ambitions. So when the Kazakhs talk about colonization, they, unlike some other former Soviet republics, do not try to derive any political dividends from this, but simply state a historical fact. And while the Kazakhs (not counting, of course, a small number of ultranationalists) clearly understand the difference between the Russian people and the Russian state. This is one of the reasons why 4 million Russians live quietly and work in the Republic of Kazakhstan despite the rampant Kazakh nationalism, which actually exists only in the minds of such chauvinists as you.
  44. +2
    25 January 2013 09: 58
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    A large wave of immigrants was in the early 90s, when the USSR fell apart. The vast majority of Russian Kazakhstanis in 1991 were NOT natives of the Kazakh SSR, but moved to the republic for work (Komsomol construction sites, virgin lands, army) and, of course, that they never intended to live outside Mother Russia

    By the way, I personally know several Russians who moved to Russia, and then returned to Kazakhstan precisely because of an unfriendly attitude towards people. Moreover, they say that the Russians from the Asian republics there are not much better than the Asians themselves (sic!).
    Apparently, as I always expected, all kinds of pavlo, Vasilenko, Smokey, etc., not only us, Asians, but do not digest everyone. ))))
    I have also heard more than once from local Russians who traveled to the Russian Federation to stay that people there are somehow embittered, not like ours.
    So think about your behavior, dear and not very forum users, before accusing anyone of persecuting Russians.

    Quote: Kasym
    Nomad, salam! Try not to answer like Eilryn and Vasilenko ... Be above them, brother. Good luck to you !

    Salam, dear! I understand this very well, and I’m writing not for them, but for the sane majority, who, after all, can unknowingly believe all this chauvinistic nonsense. Good luck to you too!

    Quote: Jet
    At THIS forum, thanks to you, I will soon become a complete Russophobe

    And do not say, dear! With all due respect to the great country of Russia, reading the comments on this site still makes you seriously think ...
    1. -2
      25 January 2013 14: 36
      Quote: Nomad
      And do not say, dear! With all due respect to the great country of Russia, reading the comments on this site still makes me seriously think.

      if you read some kazakhstan forums you don’t want to think about it but pick up a machine gun
  45. +2
    25 January 2013 12: 42
    Quote: pavlo007
    if Kazakhstan, like other national suburbs, were oppressed colonies, as the Kazakhs shout, then most of the local population would be destroyed, as was done in the USA.

    By the way, google "Nogai genocide" and read it for general development. Incidentally, Suvorov (the same one) led the campaign. I'm not even talking about the Caucasus ...
  46. -2
    25 January 2013 12: 48
    for Marek Rozny

    It turns out he blacklisted me and thus merged)))) I thought he would do it later) Here’s an eccentric man. Broke off absolutely on all issues and stupidly washed off into the fog.

    and it makes sense to argue with the stubborn steppe ram, who has the audacity to say to people living in the 4th generation in Kazakhstan that they are immigrants and should not go beyond the "landmarks".
    I don’t have a desire to listen to rudeness, so it’s easier for me not to see you but me.
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      25 January 2013 14: 44
      Where did you argue, weirdo? Apart from grumbling and distorting facts, you did not write anything. In all disputes, you write a blizzard about armored personnel carriers, doctors, factories, migration, business - and everywhere you get blown away and you start to banal hysteria when everyone beats you with denials. You even answered the elementary question "Which of the host of immigrants was useful for Russia?" could not answer. I myself have tried to answer this question for a long time - and have not found a single (!) Ex-Kazakhstani since 1991 who would have made a significant contribution to the development of Russia. The ballast that brought down brought relief to Kazakhstan - our misunderstandings on the national theme, which were really started by people like you, instantly disappeared from us, our people gained confidence in the future. Moreover, the most adequate Russians, who succumbed to your panic and left with you, returned back to Kazakhstan. I live in Astana and in any local Russian family - there are stories about those who returned from Russia.
      The most ardent "Kazakh nationalist" turns out to be much more tolerant and international than such "intelligent people" like you.
      Tell me frankly, you must have been sent to Kazakhs and Russians more than once in the KZ Because I would have only such a desire in a personal meeting and conversation. And as I suspect - not only I have such thoughts. You submit your every proposal in a clearly provocative and insulting tone.
      If a Russian lives in Kazakhstan and considers himself the master of the country, he makes his contribution, thanks to which he really is a full citizen of Kazakhstan. And we do not need any trash, which if it considers itself a "master", then only in the lordly-Nazi sense. Suitcase-station-Russia. Let the Russians suffer with you. We don't need anything different. They cast a shadow on the normal Russian Kazakhs, whom the Kazakhs themselves have long called "the fourth zhuz."
      And if we have any kind of homegrown natsik without a head (and after reading such shit that people like you write on the internet), then Kazakhs themselves will set their brains on him - both in word and fists. Therefore, any Russian Russian in the Kazakh environment will always be accepted without a hint of aggression. Aggression occurs when a Kazakh feels arrogance and natural stupidity. Then both the aul boy and the professor of the musical conservatory will give you in the face. Instinct, you know. The steppes themselves do not offend anyone and will not give others a descent. Good-naturedly laugh at our shortcomings - you can plenty, we ourselves will support you in this matter. But the steppe will not tolerate a hissing tongue.
      Look for the root of your problems with Kazakhs. Here on the site, most Russian Russians easily find a language with the Kazakhs, even if we start arguing on a particular topic. And people like you, smok, dust and others - cause squeamishness on an intuitive level.
      Example: here is your ethnic compatriot from Ukraine under the name Carlson - I have a feeling of respect. I am impressed by his deep knowledge on many issues, the openness of thinking, a sense of humor. And despite the fact that very often I disagree with him, I readily accept his position, because I understand that this is a very worthy interlocutor whom I would consider inviting me to my table as part of and enjoy a conversation with an intelligent person. Or, for example, Banshee captivates with his thoughts and emotions. And many more Slavic interlocutors cause me (and other Kazakhs as well) a feeling of sincere respect.
      But it’s not like inviting you to the table at the table, it’s necessary to talk with you through force. But we must talk, so that once again the water does not show off. We with the Russians (and other allies) have been working together, resting and fighting shoulder to shoulder for ages. But you cannot sow except enmity. Therefore, you have such seedlings, therefore you get such an attitude from the Kazakhs.
      1. +2
        25 January 2013 15: 35
        Marek rozny,
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Where did you argue, weirdo? In addition to grumbling and distorting the facts, you did not write anything. In all disputes, you write a blizzard about armored personnel carriers, doctors, factories, migration, business - and everywhere you are blown away and you start to be hysterical when everyone hits you with rebuttals.

        you are my friend ham
        any arguments or examples that refute your point of view are initially considered to be fake, therefore you are not perceived to be hysterical and rude, as a rule, you
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        I myself have been trying for a long time to answer this question - and I have not found a single (!) Ex-Kazakhstani since 1991, which would make a significant contribution to the development of Russia.

        What does significant mean?
        I know the deputies of major officials, officers, and just people who work, or do you think that if a person crosses from the Republic of Kazakhstan and works, for example, as a rural physician, then this is a "ballast"?
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        emotions. And many more Slavic interlocutors cause me (and other Kazakhs as well) a feeling of sincere respect.
        But it's not like inviting zapadlo to the table

        well forward tanks
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 January 2013 15: 57
          Of course, I'm a boor when I see a boor. You didn't start insulting me today. And I already wrote to you on this subject. I would follow my manner of speaking, no one would say a word to you. And so - I'm sorry, I'm a "steppe sheep", as you just put it. So stick your fake "you" somewhere in a hard-to-reach place. And calling you "you" would be too much for you. You know the joke about the desman? ;)
          About immigrants - stop playing around, just write the names - Ivanov - Honored Artist of Russia, moved from Kazakhstan in 1994. Petrov, the founder and owner of Petrov and Son, which produces 15% of all bearings in Russia, fled KZ in 1996. Sidorov - the head of the Tambov region, a deputy of the State Duma, was forced to move from KZ in 2001. Smirnov - the best doctor in Russia in 2006, moved from KZ in 1994. Medvedev is a famous film actor, received the prize of the Mikhalkovsky Film Festival in 1999, and moved to Russia from KZ in 1996. At least just Pupkin - VJ MCV, the host of the rating programs "xxx-show" and "xxx-club", moved from KZ in 2005 ...
          How many thousands of millions of Russian "golden-headed and golden-handed" have moved from KZ? Where are they? What did they give Russia? They were exceptionally hardworking, capable, and what's there to hide - the best part of Kazakhstan :)))) Where are they? Are you somewhere down the food chain in Russia? Can't stand the competition with the locals or even with the Tajiks? Painfully dubious part of the Russian Kazakhs dumped after 1991. Personally, I only know that the Kaliningrad and Omsk administrations are flooded with "refugees". True, local Russians "for some reason" do not like them (with the exception of Omsk Polezhaev, he is a really worthy person, but he does not belong to "refugees" in any way, and moved to Russia back in Soviet times and was very warm to Kazakhstan). I would gladly exchange Polezhaev for most of the "golden-armed refugees." Yes, the Russians would not have given him up themselves - a good man can be seen from afar))))
  47. +2
    25 January 2013 13: 49
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    it makes sense to argue with a stubborn steppe ram, which has the audacity to people living in the 4th generation in Kazakhstan to say that they are immigrants

    You are a ram yourself who looks at the "book" and sees a fig! And to tell people who live in Kazakhstan not in 4, and not even in 10, but at least in the 40th generation, that their lands were donated to them by Russia, is not impudence !? Better engage in self-education, and do not go to someone else's monastery with your charter!
    1. -3
      25 January 2013 14: 34
      Quote: Nomad
      You are a ram yourself who looks at the "book" and sees a fig! And to tell people who live in Kazakhstan not in 4, and not even in 10, but at least in the 40th generation that their lands were donated to them by Russia is not arrogance !?

      Dear I talked to you? not
      I was told that I am a migrant person who was not even born in Kazakhstan, what do you climb without understanding the essence of the conflict ?!

      ps we didn’t graze the rams on the brudershaft we didn’t drink, you will poke friends in the gateway
      1. Marek Rozny
        0
        25 January 2013 14: 47
        Nomad, sorry, that did not answer messages. I did not read the PM. I can send it only next week, when there will be a flash drive with books at hand.
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      25 January 2013 15: 10
      Vasilenko, I was born on the Kazakh land, on which the birth of the Younger Zhuz and the Kipchaks of the Middle Zhuz live - in Orenburg. Yes, this is the territory of Russia and it does not bother me. Next week I can attach a scan of my birth certificate, where you read the name of my village, which is called in Kazakh.
      Now I live in Astana - on the land of the Argyn clan, to which I belong. I never lived on a foreign land, and if I lived, it would never have occurred to me not to respect the local population. Have you ever heard that Kazakhs in Russia (and about a million Kazakhs in Russia), or somewhere else, have been tactless with respect to an indigenous or other foreign population?
      Yes, I consider all Russians in KZ as migrants, but what is wrong? By the beginning of the 20th century, there were no Russians here at all, except for the sent soldiers and Cossacks. But migrant to migrant is different. And most of the migrants are people who are respected by Kazakhs, thanks to their hard work, thinking and openness. We have a lot of land - enough for everyone, for a Korean, a Slav, and a Chechen. No pity. Many foreigners in KZ are generally considered the pride of our country - Gerold Belger, Pyotr Aravin, Ilya Ilyin, Yuri Tskhai and others. Gerold Belger is generally considered the "conscience of the Kazakh nation" and "the last real Kazakh." This German has the right to harshly scold any Kazakh for his shortcomings, and the Kazakh will endure all his biting words and will only say: "Yes, aksakal, you are right." Yes, Belger is also an immigrant. But he is also the master of this country. Like millions of other immigrants who have proven that they can be useful citizens of the Kazakh land. And the slag was washed out of here to pick up, hello. It was not even necessary to beat anyone, the bawlers and snobs themselves realized, looking at the smirk of the steppe inhabitants. Thank you for your shrewdness and timely departure from Kazakhstan.
      And do not try to stretch the attitude of Kazakhs to their own person on the attitude of Kazakhs to the rest of the bulk of Russian Kazakhstanis. There is no such Kazakh who does not have Russian (German, Uigur, Korean) friends at the table, for whom the tidbits of food are taken from stocks. You probably know the Kazakh saying that a guest is only a guest for three days, and then he is the host. The Russians came as guests, and now they live as full owners along with indigenous and other ethnic groups. Don’t confuse yourself with them. You’ve never been a host here, and you were a lousy guest.
      1. 0
        25 January 2013 15: 38
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Yes, I consider all Russians in the KZ to be immigrants, and what’s wrong? By the beginning of the 20th century, there were no Russians here at all, except for the sent soldiers and Cossacks.

        that is, you were born in Russia
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        By the beginning of the 20th century, there were no Russians here at all, except for the sent soldiers and Cossacks.

        and the Cossacks are not Russian, they just went out for a walk?
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Russians came as guests, and now they live as full owners along with indigenous and other ethnic groups. Don’t confuse yourself with them. You’ve never been a host here, and you were a lousy guest.

        the truth is you personally agreed that the Russian can not run for president of the Republic of Kazakhstan, therefore, bring my friend to the garden.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 January 2013 16: 13
          1) Yes, I was born in Russia. On the Kazakh land. At the same time, he was in Kazakhstan every year until moving to the 90s. I have encountered Russian nationalism in everyday life more than once, but I understand perfectly well that in any nation there are and that most Russians are adequate people. The fact that you are a Natsik, and the Kazakhs even dislike you here on the site as one, does not mean that Kazakhs do not like all Russians. It is solely your fault and your problem that the Kazakhs do not respect you.
          2) Cossacks - in general, initially appeared here with not very good intentions. Let's not hurt this topic, otherwise you will provoke not very good words. The Kazakhs, in principle, are well disposed towards the Cossacks (and many are convinced that the Cossacks are our relatives in general), but it was the Kazakhs who had, say, difficult relations with the Kazakh Cossacks.
          And returning to the topic - the Cossacks and soldiers have never been indigenous here, or at least the dominant population. They are just troops of the Empire. Do you accidentally take American soldiers from military bases in Japan for the indigenous population? Only the Ural Cossacks settled here three centuries ago in the Kazakh lands - they are a separate matter. And the Siberian, Orenburg, Semirechye Cossacks are alien people, and moreover, they are hostile. Although now people who call themselves "Cossacks" do not cause me anything but a smile. And those Cossacks - yes, they really didn't go out for a walk, and keep the Kazakhs in check, and not build Disneylands.
          3) I didn't understand your last phrase at all. Kazakhs do not like Kozlov - not because he is Russian or Chukchi, but because he is an enemy of Kazakhstan, whose goal is to sow chaos here. This is the first time you hear his name. And those who live in Kazakhstan and follow internal politics know who he is. Although the overwhelming majority of Kazakhstanis (both Kazakhs and Russians) have no idea, "hu from Mr. Kozlov" (I am writing you again in Cyrillic, so as not to frighten you with Latin letters).
          And so - a worthy foreigner wants to run for president - for God's sake. Its constitutional law (if, of course, meets all the requirements). A lot of Kazakhs will vote for Belger or Ilyin (if they were also good managers and economists). Although in general, this question is idiotic in itself, because 99% of Russian Kazakhstanis at the moment are stupidly not suitable for language requirements. So here you can only fantasize. And twirl fantastic pictures to your opinion.
  48. Marek Rozny
    +2
    25 January 2013 18: 26
    The foreign ministers of Kazakhstan and Russia commented on the excitement around Baikonur, which arose after a number of publications in the media, Tengrinews.kz reports.

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, answering a question from journalists about the note sent by the Russian Foreign Ministry to Kazakhstan in connection with the fact that the Kazakh side has reduced the number of launches from the Baikonur cosmodrome, said the following: "I would not talk about disagreements, about what "That is the special significance of our musical correspondence. We regularly carry out musical correspondence on a whole range of issues that inevitably arise with such a huge amount of cooperation that exists between Russia and Kazakhstan."

    He noted that questions between Kazakhstan and Russia arise constantly, given what "a huge economic and industrial mechanism works on a daily basis."

    "These issues arise, they need to be resolved, including questions about the number of launches - this is also due to Kazakhstan's concern about the environmental consequences of these processes. The Russian side is doing everything necessary to improve environmental aspects, the Proton missiles, already modernized missiles are used It is not the first year that we have additionally coordinated the number of launches, so in this case we do not see something sensational, this is a working moment, "Lavrov said.

    In turn, the head of the Kazakh Foreign Ministry supported his colleague.

    "There is no scandal, no sensation, there is no divorce between Kazakhstan and Russia over the Baikonur complex. I saw numerous comments and a surge of interest in the media on this issue, fables are multiplying and multiplying like a snowball. I even read one of the headlines about the fact that "Baikonur" quarreled Kazakhstan and Russia. I want to say and emphasize with full awareness: no one will be able to quarrel between Russia and Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan and Russia are moving into the future together - this is the attitude at the highest political level and in the society of our countries, " said Yerlan Idrisov.
    1. Frigate
      0
      27 January 2013 20: 32
      Dear, I want to grow your status to Marshal
      Regards, Frigate
  49. -2
    25 January 2013 19: 05
    Soon there will be nothing to share! Created in the Union as if “together”. Then we’ll see who is worth what! Russia is a superpower with advanced science and technology, and in the circle of banana republics with their own complexes! .......
    1. Islam
      0
      26 January 2013 17: 29
      Quote: concept1
      and in the circle of banana republics with their complexes!

      these are the complexes of the national courts, I am Kazakh, but I do not have such complexes, I am always for the union of Kazakhstan and Russia. But Aubakirov is embarrassing, and overwhelming, Since we are building the EAC, we need to remove all these provocateurs, Kazakhstan has no future without close friendship with Russia - Ukraine has already shown it to us, which has turned its back on Russia and has begun to develop more slowly, while Kazakhstan has become an ally of Russia, and the results are impressive
      1. 0
        27 January 2013 14: 25
        If everyone thought and understood everything like you, such articles would never have appeared!
        But there is no smoke without fire!
        Baikonur is the present, and the Free is the future! And I hope Kazakhstan has the wisdom not to make it history !!!
        1. Frigate
          0
          27 January 2013 20: 22
          Quote: concept1
          Baikonur is the present, and the Free is the future! And I hope Kazakhstan has the wisdom not to make it history !!!

          Dear, are you sure that you have got into the essence of the issue? What is this free spaceport. ???
          1. 0
            27 January 2013 20: 51
            What is this free spaceport. ???
            in a new way called the eastern spaceport. Yandex to help you.
            1. Frigate
              0
              27 January 2013 20: 59
              Quote: concept1
              Yandex to help you.

              Well, where does the Free Cosmodrome? In the entire history there are only 5 launches, and then not of Russia, but of other countries. And it’s in the article how Baikonur Throw and Build East
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 21: 19

                t; frameborder = "0" allowfullscreen>
              2. 0
                27 January 2013 21: 21
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JOK87gaWWC0
              3. 0
                27 January 2013 22: 01
                http://www.youtube.com Национальный космодром Восточный. Cosmodrome Vostochny
      2. Frigate
        -2
        27 January 2013 20: 27
        Quote: Islam

        these are the complexes of the national courts, I am Kazakh, but I do not have such complexes, I am always for the union of Kazakhstan and Russia. But Aubakirov is embarrassing, and overwhelming, Since we are building the EAC, we need to remove all these provocateurs, Kazakhstan has no future without close friendship with Russia - Ukraine has already shown it to us, which has turned its back on Russia and has begun to develop more slowly, while Kazakhstan has become an ally of Russia, and the results are impressive

        I’m for the whole world to live in peace, so that the gray people stop abducting people and are already officially born; I’m for the Annunaki to stop hiding under the Earth, let them come out at last.
        There is a proverb: "Trust, but verify" and therefore Kazkosmos has every right to criticize Roskosmos, no matter how Gold Russia is.

        I want to end with words like yours: Russia has no future without Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation has no future without Ukraine, the Russian Federation has no future without Belarus, there is no China, the Russian Federation has no future without the USA
    2. Marek Rozny
      +2
      26 January 2013 22: 15
      Are you a citizen of a notorious banana republic? did you mean to say that?
      1. -2
        27 January 2013 14: 27
        Not yet……
      2. Frigate
        -1
        27 January 2013 20: 20
        Quote: Marek Rozny

        Are you a citizen of a notorious banana republic? did you mean to say that?

        excellent humor, I understood your humor, I don’t know how they are, but in my opinion they didn’t understand anything. plus
    3. Frigate
      0
      27 January 2013 20: 31
      Answer the question, are you a representative of a banana republic? I leafed through the atlas and so on, there are no such republics, only the territories on which the banana grows.
      And did you come up with this in your Christmas tree country? What about fiat?
  50. +1
    26 January 2013 22: 06
    these are complexes of natspat

    You forgot to indicate that in the first place these are complexes of shoviks.
    But Aubakirov is disgraceful and overwhelming,

    And then Aubakirov? It will be more accurate - Talgat Musabaev, who absolutely correctly voiced the idea: since you are a partner, so be so kind as to play the game honestly.
  51. 0
    27 January 2013 17: 40
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    Dear, did I talk to you? No, I was told that I am an immigrant, a person who was not even born in Kazakhstan, why are you interfering without delving into the essence of the conflict?! ps you and I didn’t herd sheep for brotherhood, we didn’t drink, you’ll be poking your friends in the gateway

    The essence of the conflict is that you are simply a fascist, disrespected. I have every right to express my opinion about you and your chauvinistic nonsense, since you are talking about my people. Advice for the future: if there are no specific arguments in a dispute, it is better to shut up in time and not start insulting your opponent. At least know how to lose. Let's goodbye!
    1. -1
      27 January 2013 18: 04
      FASCISM

      (definition from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia)

      Fascism (Italian fascismo, from fascio - bundle, bundle, association) - ideology, political movement and social practice, which are characterized by the following [six] signs and features:
      [1] a racially motivated justification for the superiority and exclusivity of one dominant nation proclaimed by virtue of this;
      [2] intolerance and discrimination towards other “alien”, “hostile” nations and national minorities;
      [3] denial of democracy and human rights;
      [4] the imposition of a regime based on the principles of totalitarian-corporate statehood, single-party system and leaderism;
      [5] the assertion of violence and terror in order to suppress a political adversary and any form of dissent;
      [6] the militarization of society, the creation of paramilitary groups and the justification of war as a means of solving interstate problems.

      Chauvinism (French chauvinisme), an extreme form of nationalism, the preaching of national exclusiveness; contrasting the interests of one nation with the interests of all other nations, spreading national swagger, inciting ethnic hatred and hatred.

      now tell me where and when I spoke about the national exclusivity of the Russians, called for enmity and hatred of the Kazakhs?!
      or do you think that my statement that the current leadership of the Republic of Kazakhstan has ruined the country’s industry by humiliating the Kazakhs?
      pronounced chauvinism sounds in the video that I provided
      Quote: Nomad
      Advice for the future: if there are no specific arguments in a dispute, it is better to shut up in time and not start insulting your opponent.

      I gave a lot of arguments, including videos, links to documents, but excuse me, you are behaving like a market trader, or like the “Decembrist” from the video, I couldn’t prove it in a dispute with arguments and switched to swearing and fighting.
      Quote: Nomad
      At least know how to lose

      Well, you and your friends lost the argument, I provided irrefutable evidence of your inconsistency, as a result of which you turned to rudeness
      you called me a fascist and a chauvinist, can you use my quotes and meanings of terms to prove this?!
  52. +2
    28 January 2013 11: 22
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    Well, you and your friends lost the argument, I provided irrefutable evidence of your inconsistency

    Everything is clear, you are completely inadequate. Re-read Marek Rozny’s comments 3 times, maybe something will sparkle in your head...
  53. +1
    28 January 2013 11: 46
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    definition from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia

    Your references to TSB are a smokescreen and a verbal balancing act (however, nothing else can be expected from you). The point is not in the definitions, but in the chauvinistic spirit that permeates all your comments about Kazakhstan. You are still trying to prove that we were steppe sheep and that is how we remain. And don’t tell me that you can’t attach the spirit to the case - even in jurisprudence there is the formulation “letter and spirit (of the law).” I apologize for calling you a sheep, getting excited, but you were the first to resort to direct insults, although not directed at me. Let's end our useless argument here.
    1. 0
      28 January 2013 14: 50
      Quote: Nomad
      You're still trying to prove that we were steppe sheep and that's how we remain.

      you are a sheep, forgive me, I have never said that the Kazakh people are “steppe sheep”, I argued and maintain that the NAS regime did everything to ruin the industry inherited by the Republic of Kazakhstan after the collapse of the Union
      I argued and maintain that in the Republic of Kazakhstan there is a problem of Kazakh nationalism both at the everyday and at the state level, but it is not clearly expressed and it is disguised, but it exists
      you and your “comrades-in-arms” nicely avoided commenting on the video I posted; you interpret any evidence of the economic insolvency of the NAS regime as a personal insult to the Kazakhs