The rebellion of Prigozhin, Wagner, or something else?

The events that began to unfold yesterday and continue to do so today make it very hard to try to understand what is happening, especially considering that both sides of these events (or the Prigozhin-Shoigu conflict) are in no hurry to share details.

Let's try to look at a certain chronology of events and analyze what is happening as much as possible and comment on what is happening as well as possible.

1. It all started with the very video thrown into the information space, which spoke about the strike of Russian helicopters on the Wagner PMC camp.

The video was seen by everyone or almost everyone, let's say, the video is ambiguous. Raised a lot of questions, yes, to be honest, it really looked more than strange. There were bad thoughts about setting up, hacking an account, the work of Ukrainian special services. It is difficult to judge what really happened there.

2. The Ministry of Defense on Friday evening reports that the information on behalf of Prigozhin about the alleged strike on the Wagner rear camps is a lie and a provocation.

The reaction is expected and logical, especially since there are more than enough oddities. I wanted to believe more in burglary and provocation than in the fact that our military beat their own.

3. The NAC says that the FSB opened a case on the fact of calling for an armed rebellion. The Prosecutor General's Office clarifies that the case against Prigozhin was opened under Article 279. Organization of an armed rebellion or active participation in it in order to overthrow or forcibly change the constitutional order of the Russian Federation, or violate the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

For the commission of this crime, punishment is provided in the form of imprisonment for a term of twelve to twenty years with restriction of freedom for a term of up to two years.

A difficult task, but not an impossible one. Prigozhin was definitely not going to overthrow the government, the declared “let's go to Moscow for a showdown” looks somehow childish, to be honest, if Prigozhin himself wanted to violate the territorial integrity, then only with the tricolor in Kiev and the annexation of part of Ukraine.

But the impossible, I repeat, in this situation, no. There are only options and nuances.

4. The FSB Public Relations Center reported that Prigozhin's words - calls for an armed civil conflict in the Russian Federation - are a "stab in the back" of the Russian military. The CSO of the FSB urged PMC fighters not to make mistakes, not to carry out the criminal and treacherous orders of Prigogine and to take measures to detain him

5. General Surovikin calls on the commanders and fighters of the Wagner group to obey the will of the President of the Russian Federation and resolve the issue peacefully.

It looks strange, because the president did not seem to give any orders and did not express his will. And how much Prigozhin himself pecked that Wagner unconditionally obeys the will of the President of the Russian Federation, it becomes a little unclear what is at stake. The solution of the “issue by peaceful means” is again unclear here, because it has not been announced what issue is being discussed at all.

It is obvious that we simply do not know any amount of information, and Surovikin and Prigogine are in no hurry to share it. They just speak publicly for each other, understanding everything perfectly. For the layman, all this again causes bewilderment.

6. The Ministry of Defense reported that after the provocation of Prigozhin, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are concentrating forces in the Bakhmutov direction for an offensive, and strikes are being made on the enemy.

It is very logical for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it is very good that the MoD reacts accordingly.

7. Prigozhin declares that the Wagner convoy is moving towards Rostov.

Subsequently, the column reached Rostov-on-Don, settled down in the city, Prigogine is talking with Yevkurov and Alekseev.

He says that he is not going to interfere with the command and control of the troops, and he took control of the airfield so that the attack aircraft would work for the Ukrainians, and not for his fighters.

8. On Channel One, the video about the alleged attack on the camp of the Wagner group was called a production.

9. Peskov said that the Ministry of Defense, the FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Russian Guard report round the clock to Putin about the measures. He added that Prosecutor General Krasnov reported to Putin about the criminal case against Prigozhin.

10. The authorities of Moscow, the Krasnodar Territory and the Rostov Region reported at night that the situation in the regions was calm.

Why shouldn't she be calm?

11. The government of the Voronezh region stated that a convoy of military equipment was moving along the M-4 Don road, the situation was under control. And just in case, the CTO regime was announced, the entrances to the city / from the city towards the M4 are blocked.

12. The Governor of the Rostov Region urged people to refrain from traveling to the center of Rostov-on-Don and, if possible, not to leave their homes.

13. The Russian Ministry of Defense addresses the Wagner fighters:

We appeal to the fighters of the assault squads of PMC "Wagner". You were deceived into Prigozhin's criminal adventure and participation in an armed rebellion.

Many of your comrades from several squads have already realized their mistake in asking for help in ensuring the ability to safely return to their places of permanent deployment. Such assistance from our side has already been provided to all the fighters and commanders who applied.
We ask you to be prudent and get in touch with representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense or law enforcement agencies as soon as possible.
We guarantee everyone's safety.

14. In Moscow, equipment on the streets, from Moscow, equipment on the M4, moving south. And, in huge quantities. The Wagner convoy seems to be moving towards Moscow, Prigozhin is sitting (and says he will be) in Rostov-on-Don.

But communication with Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Yevkurov and First Deputy Head of the GRU Alekseev is nothing more than a declaration, because Prigozhin wants to talk with Shoigu and Gerasimov.

Putin's speech dotted all the letters. Everything that happens is a rebellion, the leaders / instigators are traitors. The armed forces and other security forces have received an order from the president.

That is, they will shoot at yesterday's heroes of Bakhmut. Then they will rip off their awards, send them in accordance with the sentences ... In general, we can say that on this story PMC "Wagner" may end.

In general, there is a real bust. Tanks on the streets of Rostov-on-Don, a convoy of vehicles to Moscow is not a method for solving a problem that has arisen.

Here Prigogine went too far. In general, their battles with Shoigu did not benefit, and it is very difficult to say who has more sins, but even in the event of an actual attack on the location of PMCs, it was worth dealing with other methods.

The MoD says it has nothing to do with the Wagner attack. All right, do an investigation and find out who's involved. Someone must be guilty of the deaths of seven people? And clearly the attack was not arranged by aliens. The question is how to conduct this investigation.

The one that Prigozhin chose is not the best. In his address, Putin did not leave Prigogine a way to retreat, he promised him inevitable punishment. So there are no options - no one will negotiate with anyone now. And yesterday's heroes of Soledar and Bakhmut will appear tomorrow in a completely different status.

I very much hope that despite all these columns with equipment, they will still manage without firing. A civil war - that is what is called when Russians shoot at Russians, under whatever sauce it is served - is a tragedy for the country. We do not have such a huge number of people that we can afford to exterminate a part, even if it has lost its shores. Still, these are our people who wholeheartedly fought for Russia.

It’s unpleasant, but there are so many Heroes of Russia, who were awarded by Putin himself ...

And one more unpleasant moment for Russia, which is the last thing to think about, but worth it. "Wagner" had a very decent position in Africa. The only continent where Russia is still somehow quoted. Yes, Mali, the Central African Republic, Sudan and all the others are countries not even of the third, but of the fourth world. But nevertheless, thanks to the efforts of Prigozhin and the company, the Russian Federation has some weight there. In the African resource market. Take away the Wagner - and the Africans will not go anywhere, they will bow to the Chinese. And it will be a completely different story.

It is worth understanding the "Wagners". Everyone wants to live. Only a completely stupid or desperate person seeks to die. It is very sad when in the prime of life a person dies, even if he has stumbled, but strives to wash it away by serving the country. When they die due to stupidity or due to betrayal, it is triple insulting.

We obviously do not have all the information about what really happened between Prigozhin and the Moscow Region, but everything is not so clean and smooth there that it would be possible to unequivocally write Prigozhin as a traitor. We need a trial, we need a trial. Prigozhin, as well as the very last fighter of the Wagner PMC, have earned the right to a trial.

Comments

[haron]

The President did not name a single name. And he asked the Wagner fighters "not to give in."
It seems to me that the guarantor is not sure of the outcome of the situation. Accordingly, when it's all over, he can substitute any name where necessary. Or Shoigu is a hero and Prigozhin is a villain, or Prigozhin is a hero and Shoigu is a traitor ..

[Maz]

Not a statement from the President, but some kind of garbage. Not a single answer to the questions posed by Prigozhin, they simply hung a traitor tag on the head of the PMC. There is no answer regarding the shelling of the PMC camp, the K-52 marine helicopter has just attacked the oil depot in Voronezh. Lit. Shoigu disappeared from the radar, Gerasim too. Pugachev's uprising? Some questions and our bureaucrats are in no hurry to answer them. Officials of all Russia unite! should Prigozhin be defeated, is he a threat to the entire system? And they found ammunition, and aviation, and artillery hits their own, our generals have no mind to defeat the ukroreich - they train on Prigogine. And the troops were found and the riot police and the sobr and the guards and the FSB ... From zhezh a disgrace to the whole world. ukroreyh smash - they fuck for almost five hundred days - so they found the last one - Prigogine. Combinators! Prigogine is XNUMX% right and even more...

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Maz

Not a statement from the President, but some kind of garbage.

When was it different? Indeed, in theory, the main responsibility for the situation lies with the president ... since he made all this mess with the NWO, called Wagner from Africa, armed them and stepped aside, and then Shoigu and Gerasimov began to steer and rule the ball.

There were many alarm bells, Prigogine repeatedly raised the topic of incompetence on the part of the higher military leadership, and in response there was always silence .... now the heroes of Russia were turned into criminals overnight, they refused to negotiate with them (it turns out that they did not deserve their blood) , for all claims and demands, they branded traitors and began to use force (strikes from helicopters in Rostov), ​​then there were reports of an air strike on the M-4 highway ... is it such gratitude for saving the army after "regroupings"?

And who is the villain in this story? The one who refused to decide everything peacefully and used the power resource, or the one who wants to achieve justice? Let everyone decide for himself.

[Tatyana]

I do not believe that a conscious personal confrontation between Shoigu and Prigozhin could reach such an extent that the Russian Ministry of Defense gave the order to shoot at the "Wagnerites" in the rear! I do not believe!
It can only be a deliberate provocation on the territory in Russia itself from the side of EXTERNAL ENEMY ANTI-RUSSIAN forces.
And how, for example, it may look like in reality, we have already passed! Namely.

Recall the terrorist attack in the Belgorod region in mid-November 2022!
During a fire training session with volunteers two ethnic Tajiks (citizens of Tajikistan, a CIS country) deployed a machine gun and opened fire on Russian servicemen and volunteers.
According to official data, As a result of a terrorist attack at a training ground, committed by citizens of one of the CIS countries, 11 people were killed, another 15 were injured and are receiving medical assistance. Return fire killed two terrorists.

Voenkor Yury Kotenok then expressed the version of the state of emergency, according to which the murder was committed by religious fanatics from among the migrants.

“Two ethnic Tajiks allegedly deployed machine guns and opened fire on the mobilized… Now the main question is whether they were mobilized or specially signed up as volunteers for the purpose of committing the murder of "infidels" ...
In any case, the question now clearly arises of at least an elementary check of those who fall into the number of partially mobilized. As is known, the doors to the RF Armed Forces are wide open to foreigners from the CIS countries. As the tragedy in the Belgorod region shows, terrorists can penetrate the ranks of the military, which led to the tragedy. Question guys. who gave the Wahhabis machine guns?»

A political scientist Sergei Markov sees a UKRAINIAN TRAIL in what happened.

«The terrorist attack in the Belgorod region, when more than 10 Russian soldiers training were killed at a military training ground, was apparently carried out by the special services of Ukraine according to their usual scheme. They take someone hostage and then, threatening to kill them, force the family members of these hostages to commit terrorist attacks. This time they forced some, it seems, unfortunate Tajiks to commit a terrorist attack. This is a situation where a terrorist is also the first victim of the leaders of the terrorist act.
The SBU and the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine are, without a doubt, terrorist organizations. It is strange that in Russia they have not yet been declared as such.”

It should be noted that in the West, especially in Ukroreikh, they are waiting for an armed uprising against Putin and against all Russian authorities! But they are not just waiting - they are working against Russia in this regard, tirelessly! It DOES WORK!

And when Prigozhin took the "Wagnerites" to the rear for rest and retraining, I was personally sure that against Prigozhin himself and the "Wagnerites" by the United States and the collective West and the hands of their henchmen, most likely agents of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a PROVOCATION will be carried out in order to eliminate the same Prigozhin and the entire Cheka "Wagner".

See details - https://www.politnavigator.net/terakt-v-belgorodskojj-oblasti-na-poligone-pogiblo-11-chelovek.htm

[nickname7]

Tatyana
State of emergency, according to which the murder was committed by religious fanatics from among migrants.

Did she herself get confused about how religious fanatics relate to the head of the PMC? Prigogine is a fanatic or what?
A fanatic is driving the West on an SBU agent, sorry, but you'd better cook cabbage soup.

[sgrabik]

This is a very real version of what happened, and if I were you, I wouldn’t shut up others’ mouths, according to comments like yours, you can immediately see where your CIPSO ears grow from.

[Tatyana]

The state of emergency with Prigozhin and PMC "Wagner" may run into critically overdue mistakes in the field of foreign migration policy of the leadership of the Russian Federation. Namely.

In Russia, for a long time - and without this state of emergency - there has been a cardinally acute migration issue of replacing the indigenous population with foreign citizens from the SA countries. It became especially aggravated with the beginning of the NWO in Ukraine by Russia and stood in Russia for the Russians in full growth.
The absolutely illiterate national policy of the Russian authorities in favor of an unlimited increase in the arrival of an increasing number of foreign so-called. "labor" migrants with their families from Central Asia, who, in fact, do not know either the Russian language or the national history and culture of Russia, as a result of which they form their own national enclaves and diasporas, in fact, become their states within a state on the territory of Russia.
All this is being done by representatives of the "6th" column of Russia in favor of the West - according to Western "universal" manuals and, above all, in favor of the United States - against the national security of Russia itself and its indigenous population. И has under itself the financial background of the policy of the US Federal Reserve in the dollar zone for the EXTERNAL national management of the economies of other countries by usurious bankers of the US Federal Reserve.
Their task - increase the number of foreign migrants, who do not assimilate with the indigenous population in any particular and who do not lose touch with their country of origin, - up to 90% of the total population in the receiving country.

And the conduct of SVO, as a result of which Russian servicemen die at the front, clearly accelerates this process of replacing the indigenous population of Russia in favor of increasing the number of foreign migrants from Central Asia.
As a result of this, the miscalculations of the migration policy of the Russian Federation began to be felt by residents of megacities and small towns. A foreign diasporas have recently changed their behavior and no longer want to see Russians as neighbors.
The same Tajik authorities support the stumbled countrymen in Russia with notes of protest demanding the involvement of Russian security forces for the arrests in Vladivostok and Kotelniki.

For real, not imaginary assimilation of foreign migrants in Russia and for resolving the problem with diasporas Nikolai Starikov calls to force migrants with Russian citizenship to serve in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Deputy Matveev from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation prepared a bill obliging migrants to serve in the ranks of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Migrants they answer: "Let the Russians serve, but we are not obliged!"
Endless threats rained down on Matveev and Starikov type "You'll be sorry if you touch it."

TOTAL. Therefore, with the shelling of the "Wagnerites" in the Russian rear, everything is not so simple from the point of view of the FOREIGN migration policy of the government of the Russian Federation!
This circumstance must also be taken into account, and the treacherous pro-Western mistakes of the leadership of the Russian Federation in the field of national security of Russia on the policy of foreign "labor" migration in Russia must be corrected!

[Eug]

Restore construction battalions as an alternative service for a period of three years.

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: Tatiana

I do not believe that a conscious personal confrontation between Shoigu and Prigozhin could reach such an extent that the Russian Ministry of Defense gave the order to shoot at the "Wagnerites" in the rear! I do not believe!

Unfortunately, this is not the first time and not even the second.
Back in the 14th year of Wagner, they stormed Palmyra with the condition of covering them from the air of the Moscow Region. All agreements were at the highest level. After the start of the attack, Shoigu received a call from the Pentagon, he said: - ours are not there and ordered to de-energize the air defense. After that, the Americans killed the Wagners from helicopters for almost a day. Has anyone been punished for the murder of dozens of Russian citizens? Or at least a trial staged?? It all ended with another Shoigu medal ..... so Prigogine is in his right. I really don't approve of methods.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Ramzaj99

Back in the 14th year of Wagner, they stormed Palmyra with the condition of covering them from the air of the Moscow Region. All agreements were at the highest level. After the start of the attack, Shoigu received a call from the Pentagon, he said: - ours are not there and ordered to de-energize the air defense. After that, the Americans killed the Wagners from helicopters for almost a day.

That was on a foreign land - namely, not in Russia. PMC "Wagner" then worked for the Russian olegars.
And now everything is different! PMC "Wagner" defends its Motherland Russia precisely from its foreign enemies and fights for its people!
Both are completely different things!

And that now Shoigu has nothing else to do, as soon as to shoot from artillery at the "Wagnerites" in his rear - on the territory of Russia itself?
This now does not fit into any patriotic logic in any way - it does not fit into any gates!

I think that in this case we should talk about provocations from the side of EXTERNAL forces! And they can be very close to us - next to us!

[tsvetahaki]

I think that in this case we should talk about provocations from the side of EXTERNAL forces!

Interestingly, but they steal in the Moscow Region - external forces?
And for the theft of billions they give 4 months probation - the courts of the District of Columbia?

[Alan81]

how do you not understand? It's different and billions, and 1,5 million sets of ammunition - this is another thing. these are fse cans, psachki, etc. are to blame

[Captain45]

Quote: Ramzaj99

Unfortunately, this is not the first time and not even the second.
Back in the 14th year of Wagner, they stormed Palmyra with the condition of covering them from the air of the Moscow Region. All agreements were at the highest level. After the start of the attack, Shoigu received a call from the Pentagon, he said: - ours are not there and ordered to de-energize the air defense. After that, the Americans killed the Wagners from helicopters for almost a day.

Colleague, you don’t seem to be a boy, you’re not dragging the first term on the site, so why distort the facts like that? What you are talking about did not take place in 2014. special operation in Syria began in October 2015year, then ONCE, I won’t go over the second, I took Palmyra "VAgner" in 2016, the Americans gouged them in 2017, when they went to take the oil field to the Syrians, then they gouged them, but the Moscow Region did not harness for them because. they were in the status of PMCs, but at that time (as by the way, even now) PMCs, according to our legislation, were nobody and there was no way to call them. That's all, but I personally feel sorry for the men who died for the Motherland-Russia, and I treat with respect and gratitude everything that they did in the NWO zone, but let's look back 10 years or a little less - Prigozhin does not remind you of anyone with his statements ,A? For me, Igor Girkin, who is so poured out according to the words, is also Strelkov, but that cunning one dumped on time, now all the important one is sitting with "Gavril" and pouring shit on everyone, and this one is simple, like three kopecks. So he will sit down, but it's a pity. -that’s normal .. That’s all for you: write epithets as you like, I’m a Russian person, some kind of .... the editor doesn’t give. .....s

[sgrabik]

Ramzaj99, do not write ridiculous nonsense, it's even funny to read this nonsense of yours.

[Alex 1970]

against Prigozhin himself and the "Wagnerites" by the United States and the collective West and the hands of their henchmen, most likely agents of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a PROVOCATION will be carried out in order to eliminate the same Prigozhin and the entire Cheka "Wagner".[i] nonsense, why give people such a thing

[Tatyana]

Quote: Alex 1970

against Prigozhin himself and the "Wagnerites" by the United States and the collective West and the hands of their henchmen, most likely agents of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a PROVOCATION will be carried out in order to eliminate the same Prigozhin and the entire Cheka "Wagner".[i] nonsense, why give people such a thing

A terrorist murder by agents of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in St. Petersburg in Prigozhin's own cafe Russian military commissar Vladlen Tatarsky (i.e. Maxim Fomin) - also a "nonsense"?

And the terrorist murder by agents of the Armed Forces of Ukraine of Daria Dugina - the daughter of the Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin - is also "nonsense", in your opinion?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Tatiana

I do not believe

Sorry, but this is a "military review" site. Religious issues discussed elsewhere

[reader1964]

An interesting article about the confrontation between two PMCs: Wagner from Prigozhin and Patriot from Shoigu. https://military.pravda.ru/1829772-chvk_vagner/

[Electrical]

Everyone also did not believe in raising the retirement age ...

[nickname7]

(Alexander)
to all claims and demands, branded as traitors

My friend, there is such a thing as subordination and hierarchy in the army, PMCs cannot demand from the highest ranks, they must obey, not submission means treason.

[Captain45]

Quote: nickname7

Man, there is such a thing as subordination and hierarchy in the army, PMC

PMC is not a division of the Ministry of Defense, the subordination of the Ministry of Defense does not apply to them. In 1991, the MARKET was proclaimed, the PMC (private military company) is an integral part of the market - private property, works in the interests of the owner in accordance with the agreements. The state proclaimed such a policy and defends it with all the fibers of the soul, so there is nothing to blame on the mirror if the face is crooked. ( c) proverb.

[Andrey Gladkikh]

Do you seriously think that PMCs buy ammunition, tanks, planes from the state? Or was it all provided by the state? And if it did, then on some conditions. Which includes setting goals, and subordination, and hierarchy.

[Captain45]

Quote: Andrey Gladkikh

Do you seriously think that PMCs buy ammunition, tanks, planes from the state? Or was it all provided by the state? And if it did, then on some conditions. Which includes setting goals, and subordination, and hierarchy.

I, of course, in the hands of the contracts of PMC "Wagner" and the Moscow Region, not only did I not see or hold in my hands, I did not even stand close to this, but, based on my modest life experience and some knowledge gained over 20 years of service, I would venture to suggest the following: when a crisis arose at the front, modestly called the LBS, someone remembered that there was such a brigade called "Wagner", which showed itself well in infantry operations. By the way, the main composition of PMCs at that time were retirees of all stripes (criminals from the places of l / s appeared later, when the first composition was knocked out). I suppose that the agreement included a clause on supplying PMCs from the arsenals and warehouses of the Ministry of Defense with everything necessary for the war, the PMC undertook a bloody nose, but to show how to fight, but with the condition that the internal structure of the PMC, the organization of the actions of the Ministry of Defense does not interfere because . though they are armed, but free people with their chieftains. At that time, everything suited everyone, well, the soul rushed to heaven .... That's just, as Comrade Stalin wrote, some leaders experienced "Dizziness from success" (there was such an article in Pravda following the results of collectivization). Now, as the non-brothers say, mayo, sho maemo or bachil eyes, sho bathed ...

[Electrical]

And once there were such qualities as mind, honor and conscience! Subordination is when everything is fine, and nothing else remains.

[aglet]

"helicopter strikes in Rostov), ​​then there were reports of an air strike on the M-4 highway."
Do you have links to all this, or is it your imagination?

[Il'nur]

more than once raised the topic of incompetence on the part of the higher military leadership

This incompetence was already visible to the naked eye, even to people who did not have military knowledge, after they retreated from near Kiev, Kharkov, left Kherson, for a year they attacked the fortifications of the Ukronazis ...

[Il'nur]

How the adherents and defenders of Shoigu and Gerasimov, and the rest of the "commanders" from the Moscow Region, minus ...

[Vicontas]

Well, first of all, Prigozhin is not an independent figure, but ONLY A TOOL of one of the Kremlin clans. Prigozhin's curators are Sechin, Chemezov, Kovalchuk and Kiriyenko. Their goal is to eliminate Shoigu and seize control of the power bloc. And the Shoigu case. Indeed, after joining the government under the Guiding Glass - Yeltsin, Kozhugetovich did not knock himself into a cake as head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, but industriously collected compromising evidence on everyone around, including top officials! As Minister of Defense, he did not give up this exciting business. Zhukov and Rokossovsky were not observed among the parquet lampas, but there were enough hardened apparatchiks and masters of intrigue. And thanks to them and his apparatus skill, Shoigu won, pushing Prigozhin and his curators aside. And the order to subordinate the Ministry of Defense to ALL volunteer detachments deprives Shoigu of an armed resource! But in any case, this is a bad sign! As the proverb says, "A house divided against itself WILL NOT STAND!"

[2112vda]

Everything is correct. Prigozhin is very susceptible to emotions. On this he was caught. Here, some disguised figures played a multi-move. On the site, I repeatedly warned that back in 21, information was given about the upcoming war. He warned of betrayal directed against the supreme power. Behind all this are 7 people who use Prigogine in the "dark" based on his inflated ambitions. The real enemies are in Moscow, so the FSB and intelligence should figure them out. So you need to start not from Rostov, but from Moscow. In the information given in 21, it was shown that the conspirators would lose, for 2 or 3 (I don’t remember exactly), all this would end in death. They divorced Prigogine cool.

[sleeve]

In principle, a person in the alley, taking your cash is the same for justice. He simply redistributes funds, equalizing opportunities. Well, in principle, again, I can agree with you. The Criminal Code and the Constitution are for weaklings, especially if there is a weapon in the hands and experience of behavior on both sides of the sight. And yes, in any case, the President will be to blame, which means that no one is in business at all and can "self-realize No. Not a bad position))

[Egorovich]

Shoigu and Gerasimov are guilty, definitely. Putin is also guilty for being silent for so long, and even now he didn’t really say anything, and a lot of shit has accumulated in the Moscow Region. Call all three of them to the Kremlin and figure out what you were pulling for milking.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Egorovich

Call all three of them to the Kremlin and figure out what you were pulling for milking.

Pu was engaged in FOREIGN policy - where they give more laurels for borscht! And his nukers dealt with domestic politics, very interested in maintaining their greedy places in government.
A. Skomorokhov says that a COURT is needed ... It is needed, who can argue! That's just not a special, military, but a COURT OF PEOPLE'S JUDGERS!!! And not from Moscow, but from the PEOPLE!!!
For: THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE IS THE VOICE OF GOD!
Maybe then something FAIR will turn out ... Otherwise, they gave the whole country for "feeding" worse to netovichs ... And then they wonder: why are people in poverty in the richest country in the world!
IMHO.

[Il'nur]

and why in the richest country in the world the people are in poverty!

Our insatiable bourgeois and their servants, officials, probably think that everything that they yelled to take with them to the next world, they buy devils in hell to atone for sins, otherwise I don’t understand why a person needs so much money ...

[AUL]

Quote: Ilnur

I don't understand why people have so much money...

Reread The Golden Calf. Why did Ostap need 1000000 rubles?

[2112vda]

Twice in my life I had a chance to watch how "successful businessmen" die in PIT. They are very scared to die, they shout "good obscenities". For one came "gray translucent entities", the second one just "blew off the roof." A lot of money was made mainly by criminal means, the time comes and you have to answer for it.

[Alf]

Quote: Egorovich

Call all three of them to the Kremlin and figure out what you were pulling for milking.

How is it about "during the investigation"?

[victor50]

Quote: Egorovich

Call all three of them to the Kremlin and figure out what you were pulling for milking.

Was he amused watching the quarrel of his nominees?

[akendrama]

In the address of the GDP, he never mentioned Prigozhin’s last name, there were many words that seemed to refer to him, but again, if you insert a different surname, then it will turn out completely different

[Rastas]

But a criminal case against Prigogine was opened.

[zontov79]

Totally agree with you!!!!!!!!!!

[Aviator_]

helicopter marine rf K-52, just attacked an oil depot in voronezh

Actually, the Ka-52, and secondly, why did you decide that this is a MO helicopter? I remember that Prigozhin even had a Su-24 in Wagner.

[Anton Yu]

We send volunteers from the city every quarter. We buy everything for them - clothes, uniforms, hygiene products, lanterns, generators and so on. I call a military friend and ask, how is it? He says why I'm asking stupid questions from warehouses, almost everything has long been sold out.

[Alekseev]

Prigogine is right, they can’t beat the ukroreich ....
Emotions

We are not at war with ukroreykhoim, but with NATO, something hasn’t happened so far?
What, specifically, did Shoigu and Gerasimov do wrong? PMCs didn't give shells? Ukrainians do not know this. They say that such artillery fire as in Bakhmut was not seen anywhere. and the city of stone itself is not whole on stone, is it from the lack of shells? The operation was planned by Surovikin, Wagner's commanders were directly in charge. The armament in the PMC was given modern, it can often be seen today.
Didn't you buy food for the army from Prigozhin?
His poor man is thrown everywhere in Africa, too, but this did not stop him from becoming a billionaire ....
Rather, there is a desire for a personal revolution, to become, they say, worthy instead of Putin and for Shoigu "to be on my parcels" ... And others like him want to become the new rulers of Russia. Everything was already...

[AA17]

What, specifically, did Shoigu and Gerasimov do wrong?

Respected.
And what, specifically, did Shoigu and Gerasimov do the right way?
Maybe they should be thanked for the fact that they updated the equipment of the soldiers?

Rostec supplied almost 8 sets of Ratnik combat equipment to the Ministry of Defense over 300 years...
... "Warrior" is an advanced equipment that allows you to successfully perform a wide range of tasks on the battlefield. It combines more than 60 elements: weapons, sights, personal protective equipment, sets of autonomous heat sources, communications equipment and active hearing protection systems...https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/138009/
... Today, the development of the equipment of the third generation "Sotnik" is underway, some of the elements of which are already undergoing preliminary tests. "Legionnaire" belongs to the fourth generation. ... https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/12/sroki-razrabotki-jekipirovki-soldata-novogo-pokolenija-legioner-sokratjat-vtroe-jekipirovka-sotnik-obrastaet-detaljami.html

If this is true, then why do all the people buy uniforms for soldiers? Where is the outfit "Centurion"?

Or maybe they should be thanked for the fact that they upgraded the weapons and equipment in the Russian Army to modern ones by 71%?

"Today, everyone - some with anger, some with approval - understand and state that the Russian army has more than 70%, or more precisely, almost 71% of modern weapons and equipment. This is the highest percentage among all the armies of the world," he said. Shoigu on Wednesday at a meeting with the staff of the company "Rostvertol"...https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11903277

Military equipment produced in the USSR and sent to the zone of operation of the NWO - is it modern equipment?

[aglet]

"We are not at war with the ukroreykhoim, but with NATO, something hasn't happened yet?"
if we were at war with NATO, Putin would have been languishing in the Hague for half a year, and Shoigu would have been buried in the Tuvan taiga. if some NATO countries supply their obsolete weapons to the Ukrainians, this does not mean that we are at war with NATO. when the USSR supplied its weapons and military advisers to Vietnam, no one in the USA said that we were at war with the USSR

[Rome]

There are a lot of questions in what is happening! The headquarters in Rostov was taken without a fight, Wagner was declared traitors, but they calmly leave the LPR for Rostov for possible problems with Asia, that is, through the Russian troops, they do not interfere with them! They traveled hundreds of kilometers along the actual front line to Moscow, and only civil administrations are trying to stop them, not one combat barrier, only single helicopters! In Moscow, special forces should meet them, but where is the Kantemirovskaya division?
Based on this, the question arises: what is Putin and Shoigu really commanding?

[Andrey Gladkikh]

The whole ins and outs of this "mutiny" we may not know before the end of the NWO.

[Mussasi]

Quote: Andrey Gladkikh

The whole ins and outs of this "mutiny" we may not know before the end of the NWO.

You know, now I’m not sure at all that we know something about our history! Mazepa, Pugachev, Prigogine are traitors ... vague doubts crept into my mind!

[aglet]

"Proceeding from this, the question arises: what is Putin and Shoigu really commanding?"
Shoigu - his harem in the Mo building, Putin - servants who clean up garbage in his bunker. this is what I think, at least the actions of these characters do not give reason to think differently

[your1970]

Quote: Maz

Not a single answer to the questions posed by Prigozhin, they simply hung a traitor tag on the head of the PMC. There is no answer regarding the shelling of the PMC camp, the K-52 Marine helicopter has just attacked an oil depot in Voronezh. Lit. Shoigu disappeared from the radar, Gerasim too. Pugachev's uprising? Some questions and our bureaucrats are in no hurry to answer them. Officials of all Russia unite! should Prigozhin be defeated, is he a threat to the entire system?

and you imagine - the number of commercials July 7 1941. And then Rokossovsky declares from the front - they say I have grievances (actually existing !!) against Zhukov's NHS.
He draws offensive plans for us from the bulldozer and gives crooked orders, but there is no supply of shells at all - in principle (grandfather retreated just then - they had 3 shells 152mm for 5 guns - only 3 shells !!).
And before that, he also says - in general, I will withdraw the troops subordinate to me from the front, otherwise they say they are dying ....
Introduced ?!
How long would Comrade Rokosovsky then live - after such prejudices?
I absolutely agree with your cry - this is the Great Patriotic War, but the approaches in the army have not changed - either you follow the order or ......

[Rinat Khametov]

It is necessary to compare not with the Second World War, but with the First ...
Exactly the same positional war with many months of sitting in one place .... And how did it all end? In the same way, the people began to scatter and go to the capital

[saigon]

Forgive me, Sergey, you are very in vain raising the PMC to the level of the army. To fully understand the absurdity of the situation, this divisional commander rolls claims against Zhukov's NGSh. Here is the level. But for many, this is a trifle, the main thing against everything bad for everything that is good. And so the great war specialist interferes with the work of the headquarters of the army database manager. And that our wrestler did not think that by his actions he prevents the same shells from delivering to other units (but this is the main prank he is for good against Shoigu and Gerasimov). Here someone is rubbing about the fact that someone hit him by location, and now Prigogine got aroused and failed to get justice. And it’s not like that the pilots and soldiers of the Russian army died, which is a crime.
But this is not about anything.

[Drummer]

Obviously, decisions on Wagner are not made in the Moscow Region, but Shoigu and Gerasimov are just whipping boys, criticizing whom it is easy to earn political capital. The whole so-called "conflict" has been sucked out of the finger and is untwisted only for the canalization of the negative. There are essentially two options: 1) either Prigogine really expected to take power into his own hands, but something went wrong; 2) there was a large-scale provocation to prevent an imminent riot. Yesterday I assumed the first, today I lean towards the second.

[restless]

"and you imagine, the number is something like July 7, 1941. And then Rokossovsky declares from the front - they say I have grievances (really existed !!) against Zhukov's NGSh."
You have confused time and the political system. Under the USSR, private companies were banned. And in our bourgeois time, everyone is doing business; this is spelled out in the charters of private companies; a private trader can make a profit and obey if he wants. Wagner does not want to obey the MO, otherwise they will remain private from the orders of the MO from losses without fighters, and now they framed Prigozhin, found a method to squeeze business out of him, this is happening all over the country ...

[your1970]

Quote: restless

"and you imagine, the number is something like July 7, 1941. And then Rokossovsky declares from the front - they say I have grievances (really existed !!) against Zhukov's NGSh."
You have confused time and the political system.

an attempted military coup - at all times !!! - arouses in power exactly the same steps.In the same way, in 1931 and 1937 they shot the military at the slightest hint of a conspiracy

[yuliatreb]

No, for so many years to drag Kent and without special education to promise him the position of the Ministry of Defense, everything is clear here who is the enemy of whom, in the broad sense of the word.

[gsev]

Quote: haron

It seems to me that the guarantor is not sure of the outcome of the situation.

Putin is a rather soft and liberal person in a good way. Knowing his subordinates, he simply does not want the military prosecutors, wanting to please him, to try to convict as many people as possible. The rebellion will be put down most likely by tomorrow evening. If Prigozhin surrenders today, then he has the opportunity to atone for the guilt of the privates in his formation and, after being wounded, return to the restaurant business or continue to serve as a junior officer in Wagner.

[ser580]

I don’t want to swear, but in Africa, Kato will speak with a "junior officer" ??? Is Africa lost to us? Or Power-Vse-and the people nothing?

[Alf]

Quote: ser580

Or Power-Vse-and the people nothing?

And you just realized it now? No offense.

[fiberboard]

If Prigozhin announces the recruitment of volunteers for his units, and if his columns continue to march on Moscow, then they will win. The main thing here is not to stop. I think there are many who want to support Prigogine. But in Moscow, apparently, confusion.

[Korsar4]

It's good to be insightful after a while.

But fortune-telling on coffee grounds does not lead to good.

And there is just not enough information.

[TwilightElf]

rather than fish or meat, you wanted to say. a storyteller, that is, who does not have any of the above. judging by the fact that even to keep his word, he doesn’t know how, but he perfectly knows how to adapt and please. These qualities are not needed by the leader of the country.

[nickname7]

Prigozhin once mentioned that at the age of 14 there were some flows of money in the DPR, which were harassed both by the Ukrainian oligarchs and by the roschinush.
Maybe it's the dough, Prgozhin was not given a share, he scored an arrow ...

[Lumira]

And I have just one question - why is Shoigu afraid to talk to Prigozhin? He himself continues to wind up the situation.
And Prigozhin, long before these events, shouted about “sabotage” not only to him, but also to his peasants - they had nothing to do with this scandal of two bosses, but it turns out that if they could not be put in battles, with empty weapons in their hands, did you decide to beat them like that?
Is it really impossible to find out whose and where the helicopters were from?

[sgrabik]

Too much ambition, excessive personal ambitions, because of their pride and importance, bureaucrats have completely forgotten how to find compromises and timely enter into the necessary dialogue to resolve such important issues.

[Konnick]

Prigogine's statement -

“We are patriots of our Motherland, we fought and are fighting. Nobody is going to turn themselves in at the request of the president, the FSB or anyone else, because we don’t want the country to live on in corruption, deceit and bureaucracy.
Moth
When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and after that they abandoned it and stole all the money that was supposed to go to help.

When we were told that we were at war with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the money was also stolen.

Now they do not save anything: they hit with helicopters and planes at the columns where the civilians are walking, they hit anywhere.

We are patriots. Those who oppose us have gathered around the scum."

[Repellent]

Quote: Konnick

We are patriots. Those who oppose us have gathered around the scum

Well, everyone says so ... but in general - cheap. Vlasov at least had a "Manifesto of the Committee for the Liberation of the Peoples of Russia" ... although it was also a so-so document.

[TwilightElf]

Vlasov’s manifesto and other things began after being captured .. BEFORE that, he was listed as a hero commander and conducted several brilliant military operations ...

[Repellent]

Quote from Twilight Elf

Vlasov’s manifesto and other things began after being captured .. BEFORE that, he was listed as a hero commander and conducted several brilliant military operations ...

Well, Prigozhin managed without captivity. But how similar...

[sgrabik]

No need to try to pull the owl on the globe, you are clearly very bad at it.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Those who, in the wake of the successes of the Wagnerists, shouted the loudest that they were criminals and that Prigozhin would lead them to the Kremlin to rob Russia, today they are just as loudly singing the praise of Prigozhin, a fighter for the people's happiness.
Today is a holiday at TsIPSO,
Tonight there will be dancing...

[nickname7]

Who stole what is not a reason for rebellion. Subordination must be observed even if the boss is a dunce and a thief. If every businessman judges and dismisses ministers, anarchy will begin.

[Lumira]

Haha
You live by the principle - my hut is on the edge - I see everything - but I don’t know anything - well, let them steal))))

[sgrabik]

Tell me, where they don’t steal, or maybe in America, Europe, or even more so in Ukraine, there is no corruption, it’s better to follow your problems !!!

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: nickname7

Who stole what is not a reason for rebellion. Subordination must be observed even if the boss is a dunce and a thief. If every businessman judges and dismisses ministers, anarchy will begin.

If this head of the dunce and thief sends you to certain death, will you follow the chain of command?

[your1970]

Quote: Konnick

along the columns where it goes myrrh,

- interesting - where in the columns peaceful(!!!!) come from????
well, since they don’t plan to give up, it means the end of Wagner

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: your1970

Quote: Konnick

along the columns where it goes myrrh,

- interesting - where in the columns peaceful(!!!!) come from????
well, since they don’t plan to give up, it means the end of Wagner

So it's a two-way street. On one side to Moscow "WAGNER" in the opposite direction, single civilians.

[invisible_man]

It all started with the very video thrown into the information space, which spoke about the strike of Russian helicopters on the Wagner PMC camp.

It all started much earlier, in Bakhmut.

[Anadyrean]

This whole story began even earlier, in Syria.

[TwilightElf]

you wanted to say...started with the betrayals of Wagner in Syria....those who promised to guarantee them support..right?

[TwilightElf]

in Bakhmut, a series of betrayals and failure to fulfill obligations ... before Wagner ... only continued .. it all started in Syria or even earlier .. because little is known about situations, for example, in Africa ...

[woodcutter]

It all started when, contrary to the constitution, they created a private military company and further, when they were armed and at the same time were not included in the armed forces of the Russian Federation.

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: Lumberjack

It all started when, contrary to the constitution, they created a private military company and further, when they were armed and at the same time were not included in the armed forces of the Russian Federation.

So the constitution does not say anything about picking your nose, so you are violating picking the case. The constitution doesn't say much about anything.

[Dmitry Rigov]

They survived, but when I wrote that the strengthening of Wagner PMCs is a problem, they minus me, they say they are more efficient, which means they need to give out more equipment. In general, it seems more that the ground is being prepared for "regroupings". The Wagners are destined to take responsibility for the failures at the front, and Prigozhin's actions are now supervised directly from the Kremlin.

[BAI]

Wagner is a problem only in that he spoke directly and openly about the inability of Shoigu and Gerasimov to lead the NVO. And Prigogine is absolutely right here.

[Boris Sergeev]

Who appointed Shoigu and Gerasimov to their positions? Yes, and the absence of strikes on bridges and transport infrastructure in Ukraine cannot be explained by military considerations - here policies are introductory.

[nickname7]

the inability of Shoigu and Gerasimov to lead the NWO

Alas, the people deserve the leaders they have.

[woodcutter]

The invasion of Ukraine is not only poorly executed, but a political mistake in general.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Dmitry Rigov

The Wagners are destined to take responsibility for the failures at the front

100%, all dogs will be hanged on them, and all failures.

And the most offensive thing is that when the current elite concludes an agreement with the West, on the terms of a compromise (and it seems to me that the people will not like the conditions), then there will be no one to call the authorities to account .... Wagner will no longer be, all volunteer formations have set under control, and those who will buzz will be reminded of the fate of Wagner.

[John smith_6]

Of course, it's a potential problem.
And it becomes real when you begin to believe that the potential problem is real.
And try to solve it in some way.
For example, so that they heroically die somewhere.

[Stinging Nettle]

As soon as they began to write about our military successes, there was a feeling of a dirty trick. I remember that in October the bombing of Ukraine finally began, cheers, cheers, and then rrrrraz - and the abandonment of Kherson.
It is very possible that another regrouping is now planned, and Prigozhin and "Wagner" will be blamed according to a cunning plan.

[Lumira]

The praise of successes began immediately after several reports on Wagner's successes and victories.
It caught my eye so much.

[Gardamir]

There are many questions. But now I'm worried about something else. No troops were found to protect Shebekino, to make war with the alleged rebels, the entire Rostov-Don was in technology.

[Blackmokona]

Quote: Gardamir

There are many questions. But now I'm worried about something else. No troops were found to protect Shebekino, to make war with the alleged rebels, the entire Rostov-Don was in technology.

There are also a lot of troops in Moscow. So to speak, there is nothing to the front, but everything is there to save your asses.

[Konnick]

There are also a lot of troops in Moscow. So to speak, there is nothing to the front, but everything is there to save your asses.

What troops? Rosgvardia on paddy wagons? Right now, Zolotov will command there

[Stinging Nettle]

Putin, of course, noted for himself that Nicholas II did not fully believe in the possibility of a revolution and sent almost all the security forces to the front. At the right moment, there were few troops in Petrograd to suppress the rebels. Putin decided to do the opposite. It is obvious.

[Seamaster]

In Petrograd at that time there were 100 security officials.
The trouble is that it was these 100 who rebelled.

[Stinging Nettle]

The people rebelled, and the troops went over to his side. And they didn’t manage to reach the front until a telegram was sent to Nikolai, while he believed in the revolution, while he ordered to send troops to Petrograd, while his generals were about to send them. Some generals did not even begin to send, because by that time they already knew about the revolution and it suited them.

[TwilightElf]

you are confusing something. October with February) .. in February, not the people "rebelled" at all)))

[Negro]

Quote from Twilight Elf

In February, not the people "rebelled" at all)))

In October, the people weren't asked too much either. The Bolsheviks lost the elections to the Constituent Assembly.

[nickname7]

The people rebelled, and the troops went over to his side

and sent almost all the security forces to the front

You lie so that you contradict yourself.

[TwilightElf]

Where does this nonsense come from and who put it in my head. no one sent security officials to the front. MORE, there were more than XNUMX of them in Petrograd, and it was THEY who, for the most part, rebelled, or quietly merged with the crowd

[Alf]

Quote: Stinging_Nettle

Putin, of course, noted for himself that Nicholas II did not fully believe in the possibility of a revolution and sent almost all the security forces to the front. At the right moment, there were few troops in Petrograd to suppress the rebels. Putin decided to do the opposite. It is obvious.

Apparently, already smelled the smell of "change" ...

[Anadyrean]

Interestingly, how many troops are guarding Barvikha and Rublyovka?

[TwilightElf]

so "private troops") plus the National Guard is giving back, don't worry.

[Alf]

Quote: Anadyrean

Interestingly, how many troops are guarding Barvikha and Rublyovka?

All Almaty, Su-57, Boomerangs, Coalitions ...

[TwilightElf]

what kind of troops in Moscow cloud? ceremonial?))).

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Well, in general, Rostov is occupied by Wagner and his equipment. So...

[Anadyrean]

There are also the police, the National Guard and a bunch of other units.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Anadyrean

There are also the police, the National Guard and a bunch of other units.

Rostov under the control of PMC Wagner. There is their equipment and people. Ros. guards and police do not roll here.

[Alf]

Quote: Gardamir

No troops were found to protect Shebekino, to make war with the alleged rebels, the entire Rostov-Don was in technology.

That gasoline, and then the children ...

[woodcutter]

Because in Shebekino people had to be protected, and in this situation, their power. For capitalists, people are only a resource.

[Russian jacket]

In general, the authorities got into trouble with this situation to the fullest. The guarantor himself contributed to the situation with his half-hearted decisions. But here I have a question. If it is true that the oil depot in Rostov was attacked from a helicopter, then why is the Kremenchug Oil Refinery still operating. They don't hit him. And then there's the efficiency. So it’s burned here, but partners shouldn’t be upset there. All this is sad.

[invisible_man]

It seemed to me that there the helicopter successfully shot off a heat trap.

[aglet]

"an oil depot in Rostov was attacked from a helicopter"
You already decide, in Rostov, or in Voronezh. Or do you just want to crow?

[Anton Yu]

What is this, another multi-move of the king? I decided in this way to rally the people around me. But it won't. The people are 70% poor and with all sorts of nurovishs are not on the way.

[air wolf]

We will never know the truth, everything in the press is just speculation, if after 80 years it was revealed that the Balts slaughtered 150 thousand Jews in the Second World War, but we will never know about Chechnya, Donbass ...

[BAI]

Prigozhin, as well as the very last fighter of the Wagner PMC, have earned the right to a trial.

Did Shoigu and Gerasimov not earn money?

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: BAI

Prigozhin, as well as the very last fighter of the Wagner PMC, have earned the right to a trial.

Did Shoigu and Gerasimov not earn money?

Let the court decide.

[ser580]

I'm still embarrassed to ask - the Basmanny Court will judge ???

[Alf]

Quote: ser580

I'm still embarrassed to ask - the Basmanny Court will judge ???

But what about, now the judge will be called and the judge will make the only right decision ...

[Alf]

Quote: BAI

Did Shoigu and Gerasimov not earn money?

Judgment, no. But for a triple execution, it’s quite.

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: BAI

Prigozhin, as well as the very last fighter of the Wagner PMC, have earned the right to a trial.

Did Shoigu and Gerasimov not earn money?

These without trial and investigation on the gallows have already earned.

[opuonmed]

Putin must resolve this situation, that's all! and destroy the Kyiv regime!

[nepunamemuk]

destroys for a year and a half
cannot destroy
or does not want

[Horon]

We obviously do not have all the information about what really happened between Prigogine and the Moscow Region, but not everything is so clean and smooth there.

Top of the analytics...

[woodcutter]

I can add that this is all for a reason)))

[Griffith]

If we live, then we will know the truth in twenty years, or what the authorities consider to be true.

[arhPavel]

Having created the prerequisites, abandoned them and allowed such a conflict, in which thousands of armed people participate, the Minister of Defense does not look like a competent manager. In any conflict, even the smallest one, at least two people are always to blame. All demands of one side have been voiced. The second is stubbornly silent, even the GDP has already spoken. The commander-in-chief has a legal way to retire both > 65 years of service.
I am not defending Prigozhin, but it is necessary to return people to their places of permanent deployment as soon as possible. There are still those who, under the pretext of the danger of seizing nuclear weapons, may begin to act.

[nickname7]

. All demands of one side are voiced

It is incorrect to demand from the minister, you need to submit requests.

In any conflict, even the smallest one, at least two people are always to blame.

I agree that the conflict should have been resolved at least by sending PMCs back to Africa.

[raw174]

Do you really think that the matter is in Shoigu and Gerasimov?.. Do you think that this PMC operation is a fact of desperation? And I think that this is a significant part of the "counterattack". Prigozhin chose the best time to cut off the rear of the RF Armed Forces - the height of the offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is clear that a competent PR company has formed the image of a national hero, in the person of Prigogine, but this situation is a throwing off of masks. Apparently, the people who called PMCs - mercenaries, turned out to be right, they were right that these people perform tasks for money. Apparently, the dollar once again outweighed the ruble. The question is, at what point was he recruited?.. Now Prigozhin is an enemy of Russia, he and all his people must be physically destroyed.

[woodcutter]

It suddenly became clear that the mercenaries are fighting for money)

[restless]

We live in a bourgeois world and all our fighters are mercenaries, although they receive four times less than our legislators, but ten times more than hard workers, and this war is for money, we sell everything to enemies during the war, everything goes west , and along the same roads to Ukraine, weapons, and money in the pockets of our rulers and in all channels goes advertising: become a man or die for the sake of our bourgeois future, since under our bourgeois Jewish power you and your family will not have a future, but they don’t write between the lines, but whoever thinks will understand who fights there sees losses and paying 5 lyams is not at all a problem for a fighter, but the problem is that they have already stopped believing ...

[your1970]

Quote: arhPavel

The commander-in-chief has a legal way to retire both > 65 years of service.

-as TECHNOLOGICALLY send Prigogine to retire, he is not a military man, what if ???

[Il'nur]

Quote: arhPavel
The commander-in-chief has a legal way to retire both > 65 years of service.

- how TECHNOLOGICALLY to send Prigogine to retire - he is not a military man, if what ???

He meant Shoigu and Gerasimov

[your1970]

Quote: Ilnur

Quote: arhPavel
The commander-in-chief has a legal way to retire both > 65 years of service.

- how TECHNOLOGICALLY to send Prigogine to retire - he is not a military man, if what ???

He meant Shoigu and Gerasimov

it means bad writing

Quote: arhPavel

All requirements one side voiced. The second stubbornly silent, even the GDP has already spoken. The commander in chief has a legal way to retire both > 65 years old.

[AnAAsd]

As the author wrote - we do not own the information. Prigogine understands that a trip to Moscow is tantamount to suicide. Something is hidden from us

[Grigory_Nikolaev]

not so hidden, on the one hand, a man of action, a patriot who knows the value of words and deeds, who created a striking force based on clear principles, shedding blood at the very forefront, yes, maybe based on the principles of the capitalist system, but this is a capitalist system and work effectively it’s the only way in it, but on the other hand, it’s just staff rats, using all their power to show where someone’s place is at the trough, using the face-on-table method, and above all this is just someone’s useless photo ..

[Griffith]

It is only clear that what was originally planned as a SVO did not initially go according to plan, both in our country and in the West. So the so-called. black swans there will be another wagon and a small cart. Keep your eyes wide, do not step on your jaw, there will be many more amazing and stunning.

[Anton Yu]

Gerasimov and Shoigu promised Putin to take Kyiv in three days. It was an outright lie. Columns went to Kyiv, which were easily destroyed, hundreds of soldiers died. The two guilty of the failure did not suffer any punishment for the many failures.

[TwilightElf]

Another one . there are proofs where that the first that the second gaped his mouth about this? these three days .. were voiced exclusively by AMERICAN supposedly experts and analysts, if Russia had fought, at least like with the Georgians ... and didn’t deal with garbage as a giveaway, here I’m fighting here in paper wrapping ...

[Alf]

Quote from Twilight Elf

here I'm at war, I'm wrapping it in paper...

So, therefore, there is no answer to the question "and who put the army in such conditions".

[restless]

My brother from the regiment still had two survivors, Bandera covered them with giants, no one was punished, they paid for the wound and again on the front, spit on our staff leaders and on their troops, and it’s even easier on the Wagner PMC, so Wagner doesn’t want to be killed from the stupidity of the supreme staff, they are not responsible for anything, as they say: "there is no demand from the stupid", and the dead have no shame ...

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: Anton Yu

Gerasimov and Shoigu promised Putin to take Kyiv in three days. It was an outright lie. Columns went to Kyiv, which were easily destroyed, hundreds of soldiers died. The two guilty of the failure did not suffer any punishment for the many failures.

When the SVO began, a vague doubt did not leave me that I had already seen it somewhere. Well, of course, Chechnya, Terrible gift to the drunk for the new year. So many guys were put stupid, criminal ordered.

[igorra]

A strange war, a strange rebellion. Or is this a way to bring Wagner to Africa? It is impossible to simply withdraw from the front and send one of the most combat-ready units without a lot of questions from the remaining soldiers and citizens of Russia. We must wait for the development of the situation. In many ways, Prigogine is right. Chose the wrong method. Many expected Putin to be tougher on both the Nazis and internal enemies. Questions to the President are accumulating more and more.

[Sergei Fonov]

If you fantasize a little, then it’s suitable as a way out of the war, at least partially saving face, the conclusion of a peace treaty, I suppose it’s unprofitable for Russia, and Prigozhin is to blame with his rebellion. But this is my fantasy on a free theme.

[Il'nur]

Questions to the President are piling up more and more.

Since the age of 14, these questions have been a wagon and another wagon, in 14 he was on a white horse, well, Crimea returned, as it was presented to the people ...
On the success of this, he got out for a third term, began various reforms, zeroing, and questions accumulated more and more, and in response, blah blah blah ...

[Darkness]

Prigogine is generally silent.
Where is the land for the peasants, the sea for the sailors, the nuclear mushroom over Kiev?!
And so it is not at all clear why he started it. Yes, I already lost.

[Krasavchag2]

Igor, are you laughing? What mushroom and what land? Normal oligarchs have long privatized the most delicious land. And mushrooms, especially nuclear ones, are extremely dangerous for everyone - both for the oligarchs and for you. The wind will blow from the Kiev region - and amen!

[Shelest2000]

IMHO, but I see all this as a continuation of provocations against Wagner. And it started back in Syria, when about 200 Wagnerites died, left without air cover. Provocations also continued in the Northern Military District with a shortage of ammunition in Artemovsk on the most "meat" days. I do not exclude the option of striking at their camp - the flyers were given the coordinates of the "dill saboteurs" who penetrated our territory, and they worked it out. But according to Wagner.
For what? As an option - the envy of our Arbat generals for a successful PMC and to put them in the stall of the Ministry of Defense, realizing that after such a blow, Prigozhin will break loose. He is not a politician, he did not swim or dive in this political shit. He, rather, is a militant, tactician, and not a strategist, and could not calculate such vile actions in his direction.

[75 Sergey]

There is inconsistency, there is friendly fire, it was and is, it is inappropriate to push the Americans to betrayal.

[Stinging Nettle]

Do not forget that the fact that Prigozhin was not given shells is known only from his words.
Yes, the hysteria looked convincing, but still there were no facts. No information on the number of shells and who and how many of them were supposed to deliver, and how many were actually.
Officials did not comment, some of the other military believed that the Wagner already had more than shells.

[Aviator_]

And it started back in Syria, when about 200 Wagnerites died, left without air cover.

And what did they do there - they tried to squeeze oil wells from the Americans. Did our VKS have to start fighting directly with America? The best option then was to cancel the Wagner raid on those oil fields. But they did not cancel, most likely, they hoped that it would pass. But it didn't. I do not know for whom those oil fields were going to conquer. Hardly for Assad or the Russian Federation.

[Olga]

Quote: Aviator_

I don’t know for whom those oil fields were going to conquer. Hardly for Assad or the Russian Federation.

It's amazing for me to read too. The same commentators write about the deception of ordinary citizens, that ordinary people are dying for money for the oligarchs, and immediately sympathize with Prigozhin on the situation in Africa, they believe that Shoigu should certainly have sent an army to support Prigozhin's pants. Paradox.

[alexoff]

Quote: Shelest2000

As an option - the envy of our Arbat generals for a successful PMC and to put them in the stall of the Ministry of Defense

I suspect that in the leadership of the PMCs, for the most part, those whom the Arbat generals kicked out of the army. So there personal conflicts can have a very long history

[Olga]

Quote from alexoff

I suspect that in the leadership of the PMCs, for the most part, those whom the Arbat generals kicked out of the army. So there personal conflicts can have a very long history

I suspect that a "critical mass" of the structure and connections of PMCs has come, when the risk of losing power by the country's leadership exceeds the benefits of PMCs

[sabakina]

In general, it is clear that the matter is dark. And so Bronevoy in the role of Muller correctly said:

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Well, it all started with hysterical videos against the background of corpses in Bakhmut. Then a dump with the Kadyrovites almost turned into a war. Everyone let Prigogine get away with it. Now like this.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5

Everyone let Prigogine get away with it. Now like this.

Again, questions to the PU! Well, if your shit in the vat fermented and gurgled, then why not figure out the situation yourself?
No, it was necessary to press until the overflowing shit storage called VS-PMC-SVO was equal! And all because only in words - CBO is very important! But in reality-- BRICS-fix, S-Pb MEF and other crap... with resonance around the world! And the fact that the ass is in shit and this does not smell very pleasant throughout the country - let the local bureaucrats sort it out. Stalin, before breaking the horns of the Reich, put things in order in the country and in the Army ... And here - the big top circus is even better organized. In it, at least everyone is engaged in business and works for the general cash desk, and does not find out: who is cooler - an acrobat or a strong man with a clown!
IMHO.

[Vladimir73]

Thank you, wise KAA. The first sane comment under this analytical article. Although I always thought that it was better with analytics on this resource ....

[akendrama]

Maybe this is speculation, but what if this is some kind of huge special operation to identify rats at the highest level? Although it is hard to believe, is it still a skirmish during the assault on Artyomovsk that it would have been impossible to prevent the development of the conflict before, or is it such a multi-way move?

[JD1979]

This was to be expected. Traitors in the Kremlin will sooner or later lead those who are really fighting for their homeland to such actions. If they do not remove the entire top of the obsiralov ministry, then the finale in Ukraine will be tragic. Yes, and Russia will end, it has already ended.

[75 Sergey]

Did not wait, crested, Russia will be!

[JD1979]

Quote: 75Sergey

Did not wait, crested, Russia will be!

I saw your Russia, yes, only in one place near moskvabad, but a very revealing place. I just got back today and I want to vomit. You don't have a chance, NONE 20-30 years maximum, order wreaths. You can at least go for one substance, this will not change my opinion. I was in one place where your leaders are building holiday cottages for themselves ... while some collect the whole world to equip ordinary hard workers, others pour millions of dollars into their castles and lie down for everyone. Payment in cash, if anything, to understand that the funds going to personal estates are absolutely left. While you are here drowning for great Russia, your other authorities are laughing at you and building their own Russia, behind fences in a private area with a bunch of guards. Prigogine has a full idea of ​​what such isolation of leadership from reality leads to. Read the history of your country. You can also France. Because the life of your elite is very well described by the phrase: "after us, at least a flood."

[Cat]

We need a trial, we need a trial.

Are there any doubts about the objectivity of the proceedings and the court? But what about the former conscripts who, instead of serving time, went to the Wagners? Again on kitchu or something worse?

[your1970]

Quote: Gato

Again on kitchu or something worse?

- Well, actually, if the weapons are not handed over, then they will automatically receive an article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.

[Roman Bubnov]

Prigozhin is only a figure in someone's Great Game. Not a pawn, more like a knight. Such is the "Knight's move" turned out.
I hope the time to turn "Swan Lake" has not yet come.
But we are moving there, and very quickly ...
The one who conceived all this, and I have almost no doubt about it, very well guessed the moment - "Either pan or gone!"

[nordscout]

There are many oddities in the events that took place .... What happened can be described as the expected reaction of professional armed formations that are not connected with the Ministry of Defense and the State (laws and regulations), carrying out their daily activities within the framework of communist ideologies, and strict internal discipline, on the ongoing, at present, state "indifference", unprofessionalism, deceit, attempts to "cut" the state. budget and outright theft in a war, and an attempt to wishful thinking .... In this situation, with the Wagner PMC, there are quite a lot of "muddy", ambiguous and uncertain .... The Supreme dotted the "i", in of this situation, but only time and a deep and honest analysis of what happened will show the true picture (reasons, sources, plans and tasks) of this "military rebellion" .....

[Griffith]

If it suddenly turns out that Western intelligence agencies are behind this, then the SVO is likely to enter a new phase. And maybe with the use of nuclear weapons. Otherwise people will not understand.

[Shefango]

Well, he won't understand. And what? NO ONE of the people can influence these games. There are no mechanisms of influence. And it's not expected. The people do not understand how traitors can be tolerated in the Moscow Region. And what? But nothing. The people deserve the government they have.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Shefango

The people deserve the government they have.

Well, yes, well, yes ... But we just didn’t have enough coup d’état!
You started early ... the elections of 2024 are still far away ... And when it smells of fried food for the authorities, they will quickly declare an emergency and let the elections go like a forest ... Democracy is called! (With)

[Quiet Don]

Elections by the forest were allowed a long time ago, wake up, there are no elections, but there is a system of fraud, agreements and administrative resources.

[TwilightElf]

another naive believer and the exclusivity of the father of the tsar and the bad boyars? yes, the king is like that .. and the boyars are SUITABLE .. they are chosen and nurtured just like that. there are no others there

[75 Sergey]

History repeats itself ...... Makhnovists, what to take from them.
Well, where are you wise men who were with both hands for PMCs.
Contractors, by the way, too, is another option.

[ser580]

and that the Makhnovists fought badly? they took a dig which the spacecraft could not take! Contrabass did not please you? maybe the ensign with the midshipmen in the scrap? professionals who have been in one place for 10-20 years ???

[Galleon]

Russian fighters, heroes of the war, were hit by missiles, people were killed, right? The murder of two or more persons was committed using military weapons, which should hit the enemy. Who gave the criminal order? Why are those who take retaliatory actions declared criminals? Why the trial of Prigozhin, and not mediocre irresponsible generals Shoigu with ass-lickers? I really want answers to these questions, they are not rhetorical. Answers are needed to understand what the truth is. I only know that the voices of the Wagnerites are not heard, there is no objective information and there will not be.
As for those demanding trial, the majority of the defendants, I think, will die during the investigation due to health problems. In the 8s, one officer had already died - after XNUMX hours of beatings and torture. No one, I'm sure, was not going to raise a rebellion. The provocation for the destruction of the best part of our armed forces was a success for the Tuvan. Damn him.

[stankow]

Where is the motive? Who was on hand to strike?

[raw174]

Quote: Galleon

Russian fighters, heroes of the war, were hit by missiles, people were killed, right?

Are you sure about that? And I am sure that this campaign was prepared for weeks, if not months! Prepared material and technical bases, plans, the formation of reserves of weapons.

Quote: Galleon

No one, I'm sure, was not going to mutiny

Did it just happen? Prigozhin is a rebel, at present he and his people are traitors to Russia, Prigozhin, at the height of the enemy’s offensive at the front, cut off the rear of our troops, he cannot but understand that now part of the troops will have to be removed from the front to suppress the rebellion, everything indicates that he is an agent of the enemy.

[would]

Russian fighters, heroes of the war, were hit by missiles, people were killed, right? The murder of two or more persons was committed using military weapons, which should hit the enemy.

Is there any evidence? I don't believe in the word.

[Repellent]

Quote: rait

Quote: Galleon

Russian fighters, heroes of the war, were hit by missiles, people were killed, right? The murder of two or more persons was committed using military weapons, which should hit the enemy.

Is there any evidence? I don't believe in the word.

Spit. Grandpa's roof was blown off. Lavatory, mother...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Galleon

Damn him.

Ministry of Emergency Situations-nickname can not soak this yet!
In fact: WORSE-NETOVICH, damn it!!!

[Per se.]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

In fact: WORSE-NETOVICH, damn it!!!

Great and mighty, the Russian language, such phrases to the same Anglo-Saxons, with their phonetics and "reptilian" grammar, never dreamed of. To illustrate the topic, I will not paraphrase how wits call Elvira Sakhipzadovna Nabiulliuna (Chairman of the Central Bank of Russia), I will only say that this is indicative. And, it's not about funny-sounding words, it's about the attitude towards these people.
Ours is not our Central Bank, tank biathlon, as an indicator of "combat readiness" ... Probably, it is not those who were appointed who are to blame, but those who appointed them.
This murky topic with Prigogine, this strange SVO ... Well, sooner or later everything will come up against the question of who is our or not quite our "Stirlitz" ...

[Lyuba1965_01]

There is a lot of fog with this shelling.
1. It is unlikely that someone from the Moscow Region could give such an order, knowing the explosive (as I understand it) and reckless nature of Prigogine.
2. If someone gave such an order, it means that he foresaw such consequences and for what reason he (they?) needed them. For what - the question, of course, is interesting, but so far unanswered. But, as they say, if the stars light up, then someone needs it.
3. As one of the idiotic options - they inflicted the Armed Forces of Ukraine, so that, again, knowing the nature of Prigozhin, and provoke this conflict, especially since the affairs with the counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not going very well, but here there is an opportunity to sow confusion in Russia, knowing how people treat the Wagnerites, and Prigozhin is considered a truth-lover. But the combination is too cunning, it is unlikely that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would have had the brains for this. So, again, if we proceed from the fact that this is a provocation of Ukraine, this operation was developed by one of their curators.
But I personally think that the second option is the most likely.

[75 Sergey]

If "Wagner" claims to obey the orders of the Supreme, so maybe he will order them to return to their places of permanent deployment and surrender their weapons?

[Plate]

He has already given it away, but Prigozhin bluntly stated that he did not obey the president.

[Radical]

Quote: akendram

In the address of the GDP, he never mentioned Prigozhin’s last name, there were many words that seemed to refer to him, but again, if you insert a different surname, then it will turn out completely different

But, as 1917 always remembered, as usual, he made unambiguous hints about who knows .... That is, treason, as always, is not around him, not among those who steal childishly, who cut the budget, withdraw assets abroad, who on the eve of the SVO withdrew billions, who invested people's money in American securities, released the Nazis of the banned "Azov", but among those who shed their blood for their country.
From this pathetic statement, on the one hand, it smacks of theatricality, i.e. - staging, and on the other - fear ... . And it doesn’t smell like 1917, but October 1993 ....

[Stinging Nettle]

The right to a trial, it turns out, still needs to be earned! I thought everyone had it.
The last phrase of the article is just ... Tin. Prigozhin has earned the right to a trial. Yes. And the rest can be executed and thrown into prison without trial?

It was Prigozhin with his sledgehammer who himself resolved issues other than the law, and this can always work in the other direction.

[Bismarck]

I must say that the rebellions in our country rose at critical moments, when our Army was close to Victory over the enemy. So it was in the First World War with the overthrow of the Tsar, who took on the mission of commander-in-chief, at a time when the enemy was already broken. The Bolsheviks made a revolution when the victory was already obvious. The Freemasons who overthrew the Tsar were directed by our enemies from abroad. The revolutionaries were directly supported by the enemy. So now, when the offensive of the NATO jackals in Zaporozhye and Donbass has bogged down, a rebellion has been raised inside the country. Such coincidences are not accidental. The rebellion is raised at a time when the enemy is defeated, and his masters are preparing for peace negotiations. It is already obvious to everyone that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are doomed to defeat. There was a turning point in our favor on the battlefield. Our support for and condemnation of US and NATO aggression is growing in the world. In the US and the EU, the popularity of the politicians who unleashed a war on us is falling. The enemy has no other chance to retain power, except for organizing a coup d'état in our country. The action of the rebels is indeed a stab in the back, as our President rightly said. There is no doubt that the rebellion is coordinated and directed by the intelligence agencies of the United States, Britain and possibly one Middle Eastern country. It is likely that the rebellion was provoked by their agents of influence, who are preparing to take advantage of the situation to organize turmoil and the subsequent destruction of Russia, as was the case during the Great Troubles. We are obliged to rally around the President of Russia Vladimir Putin and give a resolute rebuff to the enemy, external and internal.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Bismarck

The enemy has no other chance to retain power, except for organizing a coup d'état in our country.

Are you there, do you see the enemy? After all, the Wagnerites are former military people, people with military experience .... who shed blood, gave their lives for their homeland (even when there were no shells, they went forward), and they cannot be definitely suspected of worshiping the West.

What can you say about our elites? About dubious transactions? (grain deal, gestures of goodwill, the exchange of Azov Nazis, etc.) .... do they represent the interests of the people or the interests of their group of people? Maybe the goal was just to remove the most radical patriotic forces that would be against negotiations with the surrender of positions, and hence all these provocations (clamping on ammunition, strikes on rear camps, and I think they were .... where, by the way, are state correspondents. Media - not interested?) and such an ending.

[Don Analyst]

If they are not enemies, then let them go to xxxxxxx from Rostov.
Wrong army - piii from the army. ROSTOV IN WHAT?

[ser580]

are you stupid??? they are not an army - if they are shot in the back - they want to know WHY???

[your1970]

Quote: ser580

are you stupid??? they are not an army - if they are shot in the back - they want to know WHY???

- in absolutely any army in the world and even in the USSR - if the armies shot in the back - the army shoots back

[Seamaster]

Lord!
How I visited political information in the Housing Office in the 50s.

[Shefango]

"The Bolsheviks made a revolution when the Victory was already obvious ...." Sir! Have you skipped history class? Rodzianko, Guchkov, Alekseev passed you by? That's who overthrew the tsar, that's who brought the Provisional Government to power, which missed everything that was possible. The Bolsheviks just picked up power. It would be nice for you to listen, for example, to the lectures of the historian A.I. Furtsev before writing such nonsense.

[TwilightElf]

take over the initiative of the commander-in-chief when everything was ALREADY done for him .. and in the end, SHIT everything and the empire and the throne and life in the end ... How it all reminds of the current one) only these nichrome did not do it, rather the opposite. and this one was not going and is not going to become commander in chief .. unless it's a parade. But other people's victories are all his, and a little bit, who is to blame, but not him, the enemies. Around. They are lying, and now they have begun to betray

[BAI]

I must say that the rebellions in our country rose at critical moments, when our Army was close to Victory over the enemy.

Something I don’t remember the riots in 1812 and 1945

[Vladimir-78]

It seems to me that one more very simple point can be considered, from the field of the psychology of a Russian person. Prigogine, could just catch the "asterisk". For there are three main diseases in Rus': an asterisk, a toad and a squirrel.

[mavrus]

Quote: Vladimir-78

It seems to me that one more very simple point can be considered, from the field of the psychology of a Russian person. Prigogine, could just catch the "asterisk". For there are three main diseases in Rus': an asterisk, a toad and a squirrel.

Prigozhin is to blame, I don't argue... But it's not about the "asterisk".
Maybe it was necessary to figure out whether he was lying or still telling the truth about the fact that the Ministry of Defense was mining PMC waste from Artyomovsk. Even now, he claims that three fighters of the PMC Wagner died during the shelling, and the Hero of Russia's hand was torn off. In addition ... claims that the PMC shot down a helicopter of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which attacked them. How is that? It's good if you're lying. But if this is true, then someone else, besides Prigozhin, will be punished?

[your1970]

Quote: mavrus

claims that the PMC shot down a helicopter of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which attacked them. How is that? It's good if you're lying. But if this is true, then someone else, besides Prigozhin, will be punished?

- the crew that shot down the helicopter will definitely suffer - if they survive ...

[Don Analyst]

Beautiful. Exactly! Head spinning with power. Plus, the urks in the environment give advice.

[TwilightElf]

are you talking about the guarantor chtoli?))) Well, having honored erno .. there, apparently, they give such advice. Prigozhin is surrounded not by urks, but by all those who did not suit Khuzhenetovich and Serdyuk who either left themselves or left the army. officers with a capital letter. not prostitutes.

[ser580]

Yes - it's especially great - to catch an asterisk when they shoot you in the back - either drunken colonels or drunken General Staff

[speed force]

A vile deed .. Formally - a rebellion, according to conscience - the guarantor had to personally disperse the corruption gathering in the Moscow Region. In general, I was gently drawn by the smell of the State Emergency Committee and the plot from August 1991.

[Evgeny_4]

Quote: Bismarck

I must say that the rebellions in our country rose at critical moments, when our Army was close to Victory over the enemy. So it was in the First World War with the overthrow of the Tsar, who took on the mission of commander-in-chief, at a time when the enemy was already broken. The Bolsheviks made a revolution when the victory was already obvious. The Freemasons who overthrew the Tsar were directed by our enemies from abroad. The revolutionaries were directly supported by the enemy. So now, when the offensive of the NATO jackals in Zaporozhye and Donbass has bogged down, a rebellion has been raised inside the country. Such coincidences are not accidental. The rebellion is raised at a time when the enemy is defeated, and his masters are preparing for peace negotiations. It is already obvious to everyone that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are doomed to defeat. There was a turning point in our favor on the battlefield. Our support for and condemnation of US and NATO aggression is growing in the world. In the US and the EU, the popularity of the politicians who unleashed a war on us is falling. The enemy has no other chance to retain power, except for organizing a coup d'état in our country. The action of the rebels is indeed a stab in the back, as our President rightly said. There is no doubt that the rebellion is coordinated and directed by the intelligence agencies of the United States, Britain and possibly one Middle Eastern country. It is likely that the rebellion was provoked by their agents of influence, who are preparing to take advantage of the situation to organize turmoil and the subsequent destruction of Russia, as was the case during the Great Troubles. We are obliged to rally around the President of Russia Vladimir Putin and give a resolute rebuff to the enemy, external and internal.

What nonsense ... what's wrong with your brains ...
The guarantor who brewed this game, which has been going on for more than a year, must be held responsible!

[Voronezh]

Whatever the graters Prigozhin with the Moscow Region may be, his actions now are a stab in the back, and just when the front is stable and they can’t do anything. Prigozhin's actions are the fulfillment of the wishes of the West - a coup with a change of power, a parade of sovereignties, a military defeat, the collapse and division of Russia, and they will no longer be allowed to rise.

[ser580]

yes, perhaps Prigozhin is not a strategist, but when his people are being slapped in the back, the question arises - is he for his people or does he care about everything - Prigozhin FOR his people !!!

[Kam_M]

It's just a shame, authority on the world stage is dead

[Alf]

Quote from Kam_M

It's just a shame, authority on the world stage is dead

Whose authority?

[Viktor fm]

The situation is as old as the world. It's just that someone takes on too much, and does not take into account others. Nobody canceled unity of command in the Armed Forces. Therefore, the one who goes against it is to blame.

[Egoza]

Quote: Viktor fm

Nobody canceled unity of command in the Armed Forces.

Does it have unity of command? Putin commands a lot? Commander-in-Chief!
Tov. I.V. Stalin listened to everyone and made a decision. And the GDP?

[Roman Bubnov]

The most unpleasant thing in this situation is that no one will tell the truth, this truth may turn out to be too bad.
We live in an era of such a level of development of informatization that we have long forgotten how to look for the truth.
Trying to understand the news, you immediately get a bunch of links to hundreds of different sources. And all these sources give out their "truth". But just not the truth. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
So, what actually happened between the "Wagners" and the Moscow Region will remain someone's "truth".
Each side has its own...

[Boris55]

The rebellion must be crushed!!!

Quote: Roman Bubnov

all these sources give out their "truth". But just not the truth.

Practice is the criterion of truth

I have repeatedly written that the right to violence should belong only to the state. Without begging for the merits of Wagner, I believe that there should not be any PMCs! The USSR somehow solved problems around the world without private companies. Any private company solves problems based on its own considerations. They don’t give a damn about all of us, the country !!!

ps
I'll have a crazy idea. All private companies (Ahmad, Wagner, etc.) fighting with weapons in their hands in Ukraine enter into a contract with the RF Armed Forces. Maybe this is the reason? Prigozhin does not want to obey the supreme?

[Sergej1972]

Akhmat is not a PMC, it is a structure within the National Guard.

[Quiet Don]

The USSR did not have the task of squeezing African mines and oil fields in favor of private individuals close to you know who, therefore, he did not need PMCs either.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Quiet Don

The USSR did not have the task of squeezing African mines and oil fields in favor of individuals close to you know who

What are you, "Quiet Don", and you are talking loudly. Who is there for what, from whom and in whose favor "squeezed"

[AdAstra]

Well, comrades, do you need even more good and different PMCs?

[rotkiv04]

Quote from AdAstra

Well, comrades, do you need even more good and different PMCs?

and this is a question for Putin, as the main initiator of the creation of PMCs, it was his cunning that led to this tragedy

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So far, one thing is clear, after all this, the government has nothing to count on PMC Wagner. Now the Russian Defense Ministry will act alone. It's time for Shoigu to show off the "talent" of the commander.

[TwilightElf]

everything that it could have already shined)) haven’t eaten yet ...? It lisped the other day that they didn’t even need new contract soldiers .. it forms an army .. but from whom? from previously volunteers? so from that there will be no more troops ...

[Griffith]

As soon as Wagner used the weapon, they became rebels. And must be destroyed. These are not my wishes. These are the laws of power. Only the state has a monopoly on violence. Otherwise there will be chaos. But to stop the growth of unrest, Shoigu and / or Gerasimov will be removed from office. M.b. temporarily. But they will remove it. This is the law of the genre, if Putin wants to be above the conflict, and not be a participant in the conflict. And it doesn't matter whether Prigogine is right or not. In this regard, there is a wonderful film "Hero" with Jet Li. The rest depends on whether and how exactly Western intelligence services, oligarchs or external forces will take advantage of this situation. Any conflict can be turned either in a constructive or destructive direction, this is the law of dialectics, so to speak. In 2016, there was an attempt on Erdogan's life. It's been 8 years. And Erdogan waves his saber with might and main and the Turkish people applaud him. And it was the same tons of dirt and tens of thousands of heads flew.

[TwilightElf]

LAWS imply the introduction of some PROVISIONS in the country ... and only THEN issuing orders and not like a bunker grandfather, frightened, babbled from three boxes .. disgraced once again. What orders are they all illegal, because as the "commander in chief" it is afraid to take responsibility. And for 30 years it has been doing just that and threatening to pin it)

[Eug]

I would say that it is absolutely necessary to have a MAXIMUM OPEN (on the verge of non-disclosure of state secrets, although frankly sabotage actions of high-ranking officials were often declared state secrets in the history of Russia and those states that preceded it). Prigogine, of course, chose far from the best course of action, but everyone understands that it’s burned out ....

[rotkiv04]

the main culprit of this whole situation is Putin himself, he did not initiate the adoption of a law on the status of PMCs and did not resolve the conflict between PMCs and the Moscow Region during the assault on Artemovsk, although as the initiator of the creation of PMCs he should have resolved this situation. But I must also say that Putin never solves problems, he lets them take their course and waits for what events will lead to, and now he has done the same, he is waiting

[Seamaster]

It reminds me of something of the mutiny and execution of hard workers indignant at the injustices in Novocherkassk in 1962.
The scale, of course, is not the same.
And the development of the process is one to one.
In modern times, public opinion is unequivocally on the side of those hard workers - they also opposed the commies.
But they opposed the father-king, then they are creeping bastards.
And foreign mercenaries.

[Sergej1972]

That's why the historian Spitsyn does not like Khrushchev, but he does not blame him for the deaths in Novocherkassk. There, the main reason was the provocative actions of some participants from former criminals.

[Igor1915]

It is not entirely clear where those who should monitor the internal situation. Its showed a complete mess in many departments. If there are no cruel (not harsh, but cruel) punishments from GDP, then there will be a lot of problems.

[Bingo]

How many times have they said that it is time to introduce PMCs into the legal field? And everything was lazy, right? How many times has it been said that there is no need to invent anything new, everything has already been invented long ago. and it’s not for nothing that in the same USA PMCs are directly supervised by the Pentagon - it’s not clear why? Well, here we got it

[your1970]

Quote from Bingo

How many times have they said that it is time to introduce PMCs into the legal field? And everything was lazy, right? How many times has it been said that there is no need to invent anything new, everything has already been invented long ago. and it’s not for nothing that in the same USA PMCs are directly supervised by the Pentagon - it’s not clear why? Well, here we got it

-and you did not notice that Wagnerrefused sign contracts?

[Anton Egorov]

And who controls the strategic nuclear forces, if the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff are who knows where? And how can "partners" take advantage of all this? If they decide to launch a disarming strike right now, who will make the very quick decision to retaliate?

[Aristarkh Pasechnik]

Zhenya was forgiven a lot in Bakhmut! So he imagines himself to be a “great” figure! Dizziness from success! You need to land him if he doesn’t understand!

[Drummer]

Oh, I also like Newton's binomial. Prigozhin is in a “now or never” position - he was excommunicated from the TV, his mercenaries are being taken away, there is no desire to wait for the cowards to smear the “newcomer”. All that remains is to take the situation into your own hands.

[acetophenone]

Shortly before this, some units signed a contract with Shoigu’s department. Prigogine refused. But it was an offer that could not be refused. Well, our own people are not Ukrainians, so why be afraid of them? So they planted them on their own. Prigozhin simply has nowhere to go. Any move leads to defeat. So he did as the saying goes:
“It’s better to do it and regret what you did than not to do it and regret what you didn’t do.”

We need a trial, we need a trial. Prigozhin, as well as the most recent fighter of the Wagner PMC, earned the right to a trial.

Yes! Yes! Basmanny District Court of Moscow!

[Negro]

Quote: acetophenon

Basmanny District Court of Moscow!

So they go there.

[kakvastam]

We can safely state the success of the enemy’s special operation.
All participants in the conflict turned out to be surprisingly predictable, especially Messrs. Prigogine and Putin. Both of them cannot stand pressure and threats, as a result they have brought the situation to a state where it will be extremely difficult to get out of it without a lot of bloodshed, and given the quality of management, it is simply impossible.
It is sad.

[Roman Bubnov]

I think that now all these glorious commanders, I won’t list them, need to stop, shove all their ambitions deep into .... y, gather around a round table somewhere, drink a hundred and come to an agreement. While this can still be done...

[oleg Pesotsky]

Intelligent thoughts from the author. Without emotions and strictly to the point and currently known facts. Of course, I’m not a giant of thought, but I’m not an armchair expert, and therefore I think - What prevented the matter from being settled peacefully? Create a commission, perhaps a parliamentary one, with the involvement of interested parties? With his speech, the President actually brought the conflict to a hot level where it was possible to simply talk without waving sabers. “Wagner” will of course be crushed, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory. The Russian army will lose its best assault units. Russia itself will lose its influence in Africa and will lose its position in Syria (it is no secret that the main brunt of the fighting there fell on the “Wagner” and the Defense Ministry reported on its victories) And all because the Kremlin decided to go for a forceful solution where there was plenty other options.

[aglet]

“People in the Bryansk, Belgorod, and Kursk regions asked to protect them from attacks and shelling by Ukraine. And in their understanding, no one except PMC Wagner could do this. So Wagner responded.”
and captured Rostov

[Alf]

It would be necessary to clarify.

What about freedom? This is not said.
And where is the guarantee that those who surrender will not be sent to the most ... opal center without support?

[Sergey IV]

The boy Prigozhin called the boys Shoigu and Gerasimov for a conversation. I even came to Rostov myself. True, on the tank, well, whatever was at hand. The boys Shoigu and Gerasimov merged and flew to Putin for protection. Out of sleep, he couldn’t figure it out and shouted: “They’re beating our people!” What's the problem? Sit down - Putin, Shoigu, Gerasimov, Prigozhin, preferably talk live.

[your1970]

Quote: Alexey 1970

our shop at VO will be closed

-this is not a shop, but quite a “Certificate of Registration” Media EL No. FS77-76970, issued 11.10.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX"...

[olimpiada15]

Don't be afraid. On June 24.06, all publications from Military Review were posted on Zen.

[Alex 1970]

In general, it’s hard to look at all this. It’s just that there weren’t enough of such showdowns.

[buslaif]

The flows of information coming from different directions do not yet provide a clear understanding of what is happening. One thing is clear that all this deals a severe blow to the image of our country. It seems that the authorities were unable to solve the problem, and things came to a rebellion. However, until recently, Prigozhin was extolled in every possible way and called the liberator of Artemovsk. He is truly a Hero of Russia, DPR and LPR. How can we explain all this to our citizens now? If someone can answer this question for us, then we will understand the situation that is now developing. But it is clear that the matter is dark and no one has accurate information.

[your1970]

Quote from buslaif

Quote from buslaif

How can we explain all this to our citizens now?

.

- Vlasov was a hero of the defense of Moscow, and then became a traitor and traitor. He said that the regime in the USSR was bad....

[Des]

Of more than a hundred comments to the article, only a few are in support of the law, the President of the Russian Federation! Amazing. The majority is not for Prigozhin, not at all, but against Shoigu, Gerasimov and Putin. Even if this is not a coordinated stuffing, then where are the admins (to give an assessment)?!
Prigozhin’s provocation may be painful, but logically it is stupid, without a chance. That's not how it's done. I sincerely feel sorry for the Wagnerites. I think they were set up.

[archiroll]

Who pays money to PMCs? This is a short commentary that conveys the main meaning

[decimalegio]

Italian news reports that about 200 km from Moscow Prigozin announced that the uprising was over and the militia was returning. You get something.

[Freeman]

Lukashenko announced the suspension of the Wagner PMC after negotiations with Prigozhin

Read more at RBC:
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/24/06/2023/6497237c9a794787fd96d41e

PS According to a report on Nightingale Life, the advance of Wagner’s columns stopped 200 km from Moscow. The columns are deployed to return to their permanent locations.

[Alexander_Schlidt]

The circus is over. Chapiteau la. The prisoner exerted power. Oh what the hell is going on.....

[dump22]

In general, the SVO plan is, of course, very intricate, I can’t say anything.

[Raccoon Raccoon]

That's it, the rebellion is over. Yes, the comment is very short.

[sashabeznosickov]

We need to put up with Shoigu and Prigozhin, if the Minister of Defense is so stupid, then we don’t need such a minister. Or does he have a reason not to put up with it, personal ambitions? Russia is at stake and there’s no time for personal grievances here, just like children. And what is Putin thinking about? His handling of threats could lead to a war inside Russia, then we don’t even need enemies. And the Ukrainian Armed Forces can take advantage of this conflict. Again, the mistakes of the authorities that cost us dearly, with the deaths of our soldiers, are stupid. What is only an act of goodwill worth in Ukraine, who is behind did this answer?

[Clone]

Well, first of all, everyone should calm down because, as my friend said, “Nowadays, picking up a real sentence from the floor is easier than two fingers... especially when the CTO regime has been proclaimed in some areas.
The fact that we will virtually pull each other by the breasts will not make Shoigu and Gerasimov blush, nor Prigozhin will enroll as a monk, and Serdyukov will not shoot himself. Each of us has our own position and our own personal vision of the problem, although none of those present here has the truthful information. Just guesses and assumptions...from pitchforks on the water.
Personally, the first thing that arose for me was a feeling of bewilderment - Why the hell is it now??? What prompted and why was it necessary to make a fuss behind the backs of the warring brothers with an already predictable result? How could a blood-raised and undisputed authority be so mediocrely poured down the drain? What is this? Stalin's "Dizziness from Success" in a new edition?
In general, although it’s banal, but... “we’ll wait and see.” And let the bastards from Tsipsota, together with the degenerate Danilov, have fun, making their assumptions about Lukashenko’s role in what is happening... they had fun, I must admit.

[Fedor Severny]

Good game! no fools, everything is for real.
Now it will be clearer who needs to be put in a corner for groveling, lack of convictions, sycophancy, readiness to become a real traitor:

Prigozhin followed in the footsteps of the anarchist Makhno - Gasparyan

Sivkov: The West is involved in Prigozhin’s rebellion

General Reshetnikov: Prigozhin's rebellion must be suppressed as quickly as possible

Yevgeny Prigozhin’s rebellion was planned in advance - long before he accused the military of attacking the Wagner PMC training camp. Military correspondent Alexander Kots stated this on the Komsomolskaya Pravda radio, PolitNavigator correspondent reports.

The head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, could have entered into a conspiracy with Russia’s opponents, organizing his own rebellion. Human rights activist Stalina Gurevich stated this on radio “Komsomolskaya Pravda”

The mutiny of the head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, during a large-scale offensive by the Armed Forces of Ukraine is a stab in the back of the Russian army and is beneficial only to the Banderaites and their Western masters. Retired Colonel, Director of the Museum of Air Defense Forces Yuri Knutov stated this on the Soloviev Live channel.

The rebellion of the head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is precisely the threat of the “patriotic Maidan” that was announced earlier. Deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Oleg Matveychev said this on air on the PolitWera channel.

The head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, framed a group of emigrant specialists who intended to return from the United States to Russia. Writer, political strategist, deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Oleg Matveychev stated this on air on the PolitWera channel.

The instigator of the rebellion, the head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, probably expected that on the way to Moscow, detachments of sympathizers would join him and, thus, his units would expand. Political scientist Maxim Grigoriev stated this on the radio “Komsomolskaya Pravda”

* * *
And who can you rely on: Vladimir Skachko, Alexey Belov (Anti-Fascist)

[Unknown]

We need a trial, we need a trial. Prigozhin, as well as the most recent fighter of the Wagner PMC, earned the right to a trial.

Okay, let everything settle down, then we will draw conclusions. Maybe new details will come to light that are not currently known. In the meantime, as our famous classic said.....

[

[Vladimir Shchennikov]

"Wagner" and the narcissistic Judas Prigogine. Very soon a lot of rot will come out about Prigozhin... For the sake of a place in the sun, he is walking over corpses...

[Maks1995]

I realized that the PMC would not be able to defend itself, they would apparently be disbanded and forcibly handed over to Mo, the President did not support it and called him a “traitor” and Prigozhin decided not to bring it to blood.

But she would have gone if they had started hammering with artillery and missiles.

Shoigu caviar triumphed

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

This is not rebellion - this is betrayal!

Prigozhin is a liar and a traitor, and Wagner today covered himself with indelible shame and stained his hands with the blood of Russian soldiers.

I hate Prigogine, Wagner and everyone who tries to justify them.

Prigozhin deliberately fanned the panic by shouting that the Ukrops had taken Tokmak and almost reached the Sea of ​​Azov, a few days before the betrayal. There was no blow to the Wagners from the Ministry of Defense, unless Prigozhin’s own aviation struck the Wagners to provoke them.

People like Prigozhin should not be allowed into power or into arms; this is a rabid dog that needs to be put down before it bites someone else.

[mavrus]

The conflict has been brewing for a long time...
Here there is a “shell famine”, and mining of exit routes from Artemovsk, etc.
Why didn’t the President intervene in this conflict in the most decisive way earlier? After all, he is an authority for Prigozhin, but for Shoigu and Gerasimov he is, in general, the boss!!! So everyone is to blame, not just Prigozhin.

[Sergey28]

It seems that the situation that has occurred will seriously hit the ratings of those who are supported by more than 80%. And it is right.

[Sergey Samkov]

So the nature of the main broadcaster in the media has been revealed... First, give the shells, now return the money and stop the criminalization of war crimes... (S.....ka! Why was it necessary to kill the pilots!!! For this, to the wall without trial and investigations of all those involved..From the soldiers to their immediate commanders)..The PR man is fucking...t...

[Vitaly Lyalin]

So what is Prigozhin talking about anyway? Someone tell me. What are the goals, what are the requirements? Prigogine himself didn’t say anything. Just blah blah blah. I watched all his performances. Not a word about what he really wants. One listing of grievances is like a child in a sandbox.

[Krasavchag2]

From the comments, I understood that Prigozhin’s bright head was fooled by the insidious hirelings of the West. It was they who organized everything - the withdrawal from positions and the occupation of Rostov (the capital of the Southern Military District for a minute, if you will). And an incredible rush to the border of the Moscow region. Strong, vagabonds! You can't take this away. . .
Beauty conspiracy theory. . .

[Mikhail Dadeko]

Rebellion is said loudly, out of fear the authorities said the devil that sometimes in order to “sober up” our celestials we need a biting “slap in the face”

[Illanatol]

Quote: Captain45

PMC is not a division of the Ministry of Defense, the subordination of the Ministry of Defense does not apply to them. In 1991, the MARKET was proclaimed, PMC (private military company) is an integral part of the market - private property, works in the interests of the owner in accordance with agreements.

Did Wagner buy weapons, including armored vehicles, with his own cash? How much does it cost to maintain a PMC numbering tens of thousands of bayonets? Does Prigozhin keep his money? Or is the fee received from the poor Negroes enough for this? Very doubtful.
It is obvious that "Wagner" is maintained at public expense. And if so - the "market" goes through the forest specifically.
Whoever dine the girl, he shows her the program for the evening ...

[jamonchik]

1 and the only article by the author with which I agree. A completely unnecessary situation, which, however, apparently did not happen out of nowhere. , then again I was deceived, he will say.

[Borevlad]

This was all done so that the whole world would know that Wagner is now in Belarus!

[shark507]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Prigogine is a liar and a traitor,

Well, yes.
He turned the Russian army into amusing regiments.
Stole 1,5 million sets of uniforms.
He did not ensure the production of Armata and Boomerangs and their introduction into service.
Did not provide the army with drones and unmanned aerial vehicles.
Did not provide the army with modern communications.
I planned and carried out the SVO through the ass.

What a scumbag this Prigogine is!

[Patriot228]

It is significant that our “elites” and officials simply remained silent and, judging by the information, abruptly moved to St. Petersburg, while we remained in Moscow without any protection... No barriers were organized, from what was publicly available, a couple of lonely batters and a couple of dozen fighters against a group of thousands with heavy weapons? How is that? Are they taking us for idiots, or did they just throw the guys to slaughter? No volunteers were recruited, weapons were not distributed, the authorities simply remained silent and were probably trying to take their families out of Moscow, and we sat and watched as the column of rebels moved towards the city, not meeting any resistance with the exception of the Aerospace Forces. In this case, I was completely on the side of the Russian Ministry of Defense, but what I saw was that they simply abandoned us, no evacuation, nothing... whoever could save their asses... How can you even trust the army now after this? Moreover, the ease with which the PMCs advanced, it’s clear that the people were completely offended by all this...

[Vladimir A. Trifonov]

I especially liked the words about the need for a trial. Maybe the criminal case was closed because someone had something to hide. If this matter is investigated, very unpleasant things may emerge. It is not yet known who our traitor is here.

[Viktor Grishchenko]

This is just a reason to think about why we need the Russian Orthodox Church if the whole country swims in an ice hole for baptism, and then sins with all their hearts. Is the Orthodox faith still crooked? Maybe the biblical faith is better for the country after all. After all, pride is a human sin. The devil did it first.
¹³ You were in Eden, in the garden of God; your garments were adorned with all kinds of precious stones; ruby, topaz and diamond, peridot, onyx, jasper, sapphire, carbuncle and emerald and gold, everything skillfully placed in your nests and strung on you, was prepared on the day of your creation. ¹⁴You were an anointed cherub to overshadow, and I appointed you to do so; you were on the holy mountain of God, walking among the fiery stones. ¹⁵ You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until iniquity was found in you. ¹⁶ Because of the vastness of your trade, your inner being was filled with unrighteousness, and you sinned; and I cast you down as unclean from the mountain of God, and drove you, the overshadowing cherub, out of the midst of the fiery stones. ¹⁷ Because of your beauty your heart was lifted up, because of your vanity you destroyed your wisdom; Therefore I will throw you to the ground, I will hand you over to shame before kings. ¹⁸ By the multitude of your iniquities in your unrighteous trade you have defiled your sanctuaries; and I will bring fire from among you, which will consume you: and I will turn you into ashes on the earth in the sight of all who see you. ¹⁹ All who knew you among the nations will be amazed at you; You will become a terror, and you will be no more. Ezekiel 28:13-19 © Bible Online, 2003-2023.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

There are too many indications that this "mutiny" is another HSP. And this is not the first time Prigozhin awakens unrealizable "wet girlish dreams" in the immature brains of his non-brothers. :)

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

Quote: Anton Egorov

And who controls the strategic nuclear forces, if the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff are who knows where? And how can "partners" take advantage of all this? If they decide to launch a disarming strike right now, who will make the very quick decision to retaliate?

Have you heard about the "perimeter"? In the worst case, the answer will be “Dead Hand”. So the “partners” won’t take risks. They would not refuse to win, but they do not want to die.

[Black cowl]

It’s time for all of us to decide whether we are in the legal field or not. If within the legal framework, then there are legal ways to respond to certain violations, but Prigozhin did not take a single step in this direction; if outside the legal framework, then the Moscow Region will certainly not talk to Prigozhin. The actions of the Wagners are clearly criminal, although many of them were used “blindly”. At the moment they are being flirted with because they are a real force that cannot be neutralized without great losses, both moral and material. But this does not make Prigozhin’s actions cease to be criminal. It follows that Prigozhin has given up on PMCs. Result: Prigozhin is simply a narrow-minded person, or more simply a stupid person. In my opinion, the PMC is actually managed by another person or group of people, but an idiot like Prigozhin is not fit to be the head of such an organization.