Military Review

New attempt to divide Baikonur

124
The main cosmodrome used by Russia to launch various spacecraft into orbit, including manned spacecraft, in the last few days has been the object of very interesting events. Some civil servants in Kazakhstan and Russia got involved in an absentee “altercation” concerning the further fate of the Baikonur cosmodrome and the nearby city of the same name. Despite the existing agreement on the lease of the city and the cosmodrome before 2050, the leadership of Kazcosmos began to express incomprehensible and ambiguous thoughts.




The other day, the head of the Kazakh space agency, Talgat Musabayev, spoke about the ongoing negotiations on the gradual withdrawal from the contract concluded almost twenty years ago. This agreement should be replaced by a new one, taking into account the modern situation and the wishes of the parties. Musabayev expressed a desire to terminate the lease of the city of Baikonur and to return it under the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan. At the same time, the head of Kazkosmos stressed that all desired actions would not be carried out immediately, but gradually. The first stage of such a transfer may be a change in the status of the city of Baikonur, as well as the transfer of the Zenit launch complex. The transfer of this part of the Baikonur cosmodrome to Kazakhstan, according to Musabayev, will lead the country to a completely new level. After changing the ownership of the city and several launch sites, it is possible to continue such procedures, but with the other objects of the Baikonur cosmodrome. However, Musabayev did not specify even the approximate time frame during which all sites, complexes and other objects can be transferred.

Quite quickly, Russian officials responded to statements by the head of Kazkosmos. It is worth noting that there have not been official statements yet, but Kommersant has already quoted the words of a certain source close to the Russian-Kazakh intergovernmental commission dealing with issues of the Baikonur cosmodrome. This source notes that such problems relating to the transfer of a city or any cosmodrome complexes are solved at the level of heads of state, and not the leadership of space agencies. As for the talks on the future fate of the leased cosmodrome, they are really being conducted. Only about any full transfer of Kazakhstan speech on them does not go. The source of Kommersant emphasizes that all the talk about the transfer of the city and the cosmodrome of the same name is nothing more than personal understanding of the ongoing negotiations by Musabayev. The source also expressed a rather interesting opinion on the “nature” of the statements of the head of Kazcosmos. The Kazakh Space Agency is not experiencing the best of times and Musabaev’s current remarks, being made public before the lower house of parliament, may be designed to show the organization’s lack of guilt in the current troubles. One way or another, one of the conditions of international negotiations is the absence of any radical proposals.

The situation was slightly clarified by the press service of the Kazakh space agency. She declares the absence of any claims to the Russian side. As it turned out, Musabayev meant only negotiations on the Zenit launch complex. At the same time, the press service also cannot give an approximate timeline for the completion of consultations and the possible transfer of the launch pad. As for the goals of the transfer of Zenit complexes, Kazkosmos most likely continues to prepare for the organization of the new Russian-Kazakh Baiterek cosmodrome. Previously, it was repeatedly proposed by joint efforts to create a new launch complex for Angara missiles. However, negotiations on this are stalled: countries can not agree on how to finance the project. In addition, not so long ago, top-level Kazakh officials mentioned the possibility of abandoning the "Angara" and operating older Zenits on Baiterek. Thus, Kazkosmos seems to be trying to save money on the construction of new launch systems for Angara missiles, even at the cost of using older launch vehicles.

Regardless of Kazakhstan’s plans for the Zenit launch complex, T. Musabaeva’s statements have already become widespread and have become a subject of controversy. For example, a number of experts are already trying to make predictions about the future of Zenit complexes, and even the entire Baikonur, if they are handed over to the Kazakh side. These predictions primarily mention the probable issue of personnel. If the Kazakh side assumes all the maintenance of the cosmodrome, then Russian specialists can start leaving Baikonur, which would entail many unpleasant consequences. Even the Kazakhs themselves admit their inability to fully and effectively maintain the spaceport. The main reason for this is finance. Now Russia spends about five billion rubles a year on Baikonur. Three and a half go to pay for the rent, and the rest of the money goes to the direct operation of the cosmodrome facilities. It is unlikely that Kazakhstan will be able in the near future to find in its budget a sufficient amount of finances for self-sustaining the operation of the systems. In addition, the Kazakh space industry is not yet able to independently engage in the construction of rockets, which is why the “one-man” possession of a large cosmodrome looks at least questionable.

Meanwhile, Russia continues to increase its spending on the space program. In the coming years, about 500 billion rubles will be spent on the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome in the Amur region. According to current plans, the first Vostochny launch pad will be able to go into operation as early as 2015. In another five years, it is planned to complete the construction of all the main facilities of the new cosmodrome. It is noteworthy that from the very beginning of the work on the design of the Vostochny cosmodrome, from time to time opinions began to sound about its inconvenience and loss in comparison with Baikonur. Naturally, in this rhetoric, Kazakh officials also noted. We have to admit, because of its more northern location, the cosmodrome in the Amur Region is indeed inferior in some respects to Baikonur located in Kazakhstan. At the same time, Vostochny is located on Russian territory, which will reliably protect it from various obscure statements of the heads of foreign space agencies.

Most likely, the current events around Baikonur will culminate in the creation and signing of a new agreement that “closes” the issues and complaints of the parties. The new Baiterek cosmodrome remains questionable at the same time: the lack of a common opinion on financing issues can put an end to this project. As for the fate of Baikonur itself, then with the advent of a competitor in the form of the Eastern Cosmodrome, it can undergo serious changes. For example, under the current conditions of renting Baikonur, or when switching to a rental system for a specific launch complex for each launch, Vostochniy can become the main Russian cosmodrome, and facilities on the Kazakh territory will be used only in some cases. In such circumstances, Baikonur can gradually be out of service and become, for example, an open-air museum. Only for such ways of development of the cosmodrome a clear plan and readiness to invest a large amount of money is required. Meanwhile, Kazakhstan, in the meantime, has several years to determine its needs and desires, as well as to estimate the losses from the complete transition of Russian cosmonautics to the East and to draw the appropriate conclusions.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rg.ru/
http://newsru.com/
http://ria.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://expert.ru/
Author:
124 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. YARY
    YARY 12 December 2012 08: 21
    -3
    He wrote too!
    Blow everything up to a hair dryer!
    angry
    1. mar.tira
      mar.tira 12 December 2012 08: 38
      +12
      It does not sound regrettable, but we already need to come to terms with the fact that we will lose Baikonur over time! Therefore, already now it is necessary to withdraw all engineering and technical structures, and the personnel of the base and satellite city to Russia at the new cosmodrome. Because the specialists are high-class there, and you can’t lose them. One is happy! The steps of the missiles will not fall on our heads. Ours, I mean the Siberians! And then recently they began to fall in the wrong place!
      1. sergskak
        sergskak 12 December 2012 10: 47
        +9
        It would have been time to bring everything out and “de-energize” everything there before the steep bazaar! And the Kazakhs are good fellows, pushing Russia to the fastest construction of a cosmodrome on their territory. And most likely they just don't want money!
        1. Vito
          Vito 12 December 2012 11: 02
          +7
          sergskak (6)I welcome you dear. hi

          Quote: sergskak
          And the Kazakhs are great, pushing Russia

          Yes, here you are absolutely right, I’ll say more than us, not only the Kazakhs are pushing, but also the Azerbaijanis (Gabala radar station). Sooner or later, this issue will have to be addressed.
          All the same, such vital objects should be located in OUR territory!
          We are still reaping the fruits of the collapse of the USSR!
          1. sergskak
            sergskak 12 December 2012 11: 35
            +3
            Vito, That's right! It's high time to stop relying on "friends". You need to do your own thing, and not rely on neighbors: "we will let you, we will not let you."
        2. nnnnnn
          nnnnnn 12 December 2012 12: 59
          -2
          Yes, the new cosmodrome for the Chinese is just how many kilometers from the border there? 200 km? the Chinese will probably rename it to "North"
          1. in reserve
            in reserve 12 December 2012 13: 32
            +4
            nnnnnn
            Yes, the new cosmodrome for the Chinese is just how many kilometers from the border there? 200 km? the Chinese will probably rename it to "North"


            Yes, at least sell all of Kazakhstan to the Chinese, they still expect this to them a little land, your statement confirms that you yourself can’t transfer anything to you with ready-made technologies, you can’t even take advantage of it. Your kaz space is a structure for pumping money from Russia.
            1. sergskak
              sergskak 12 December 2012 13: 43
              0
              in reserve, That’s what the conversation is about. What can they do without US? Only sweep the tracks in Moscow? PsHARDLY TRUTH? BUT NOT WAY!
              1. nnnnnn
                nnnnnn 12 December 2012 14: 50
                +2
                well, right, apart from other arguments, no, sorry hoped to hear smart things, and yet another office plankton got into a dispute
                1. Krilion
                  Krilion 13 December 2012 03: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: nnnnnn
                  sorry I hoped to hear smart things and another office plankton got into an argument


                  clever things have already been said - you need to finish this tyagomotin with the Baikonur and finish building your own spaceport ... what will the Kazakhs do with the Baikonur when all the Russians leave from there. I just can’t imagine .. apparently they’ll take up the traditional business - they will start sawing everything that remains ... now we are witnessing the beginning of a process that Ukraine and Poland already passed in due time ... instead of gratefully using the results of huge work and the investments of a space power, and even to receive money, Kazakhstan suddenly decided to properly pull the blanket over itself ... how it all ends can be seen in the example of a joint venture and UP ...
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 53
                    -1
                    Sawing on metal is not our business. It’s in Russia, even from cemeteries they’re carrying flowers. The Kazakhs are proposing to Russia to engage in the development of the cosmodrome, and not just squeeze all the juices out of it until the Russian cosmodrome is completed. And at the same time, the Kazakhs themselves are willing to pay if only the infrastructure is updated at the leased spaceport. For all these years, Russia has not invested a damn in Baikonur, but only milked the spaceport. What this will lead to is clear even to a student.
              2. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 49
                -1
                Look for a janitor-Kazakh in Moscow :)))) If I were so stupid, not distinguishing between Tajiks and Kazakhs, I would write about the cunning president of the Russian Federation, Vaclav Havel, who lives in Minsk, the capital of Russia, and eats lard at night. Like, because there is no difference between all these Trans-Ural Christians :))))
            2. nnnnnn
              nnnnnn 12 December 2012 14: 53
              +3
              yes you got your money, so much has been written about this money, well, about the territories from the bench, get up and go to Khabarovsk Territory.
            3. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 45
              -1
              What technologies does Russia transmit to us ??? For 20 years, Kazakhs have been asking Moscow about this (not for free, of course). So far, Russia has only hanged noodles on its ears with idiotic projects or sucked in shit (launching satellites from fighters, the Khrunichev satellite KazSat-1 and other garbage). At the same time, it tore off a lot of dibs from the Kazakhs, who really went into the void, Kazakhstan did not receive ANYTHING material or technical in all these projects.
          2. plotnikov561956
            plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 14: 58
            +6
            Long live the Great Space Power of Kazakhstan .... on the launch sites of which large herds of saigas will graze ...
          3. mda
            mda 12 December 2012 18: 24
            0
            Quote: nnnnnn
            Yes, the new cosmodrome for the Chinese is just how many kilometers from the border there? 200 km? the Chinese will probably rename it to "North"

            "Chinese threat" again. Maybe stop poking your nose?
            1. Spooky
              Spooky 15 December 2012 12: 42
              -1
              Russians from Kostroma to Habomai with Shikotan are only 20 mln people and are decreasing every year - it pleases !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great territory for the Han, full of forest and accessible ........................... women!
          4. snek
            snek 12 December 2012 18: 30
            +1
            Quote: nnnnnn
            Yes, the new cosmodrome for the Chinese is just how many kilometers from the border there? 200 km? the Chinese will probably rename it to "North"

            The Chinese have not needed it for a hundred years. It is extremely important for a spaceport how close it is to the equator, and the Chinese have spaceports that are much closer to it.
            1. nnnnnn
              nnnnnn 13 December 2012 10: 13
              +1
              Quote: snek
              The Chinese have not needed it for a hundred years. It is extremely important for a spaceport how close it is to the equator, and the Chinese have spaceports that are much closer to it.

              then why do you need it? to launder money and by the way the Chinese cosmodrome is in Inner Mongolia, and this is far from the equator
              1. 73petia
                73petia 14 December 2012 01: 23
                +1
                I don’t know about money laundering. But there are communications and the railway for now, and the Volga flows into the Caspian Sea. Yes, in general, the entire infrastructure. The USSR swelled so much money in Baikonur that Russia, even with oil and gas revenues in the current economic situation, will probably not be able to build anything comparable to Baikonur. No need to build, of course. And they are building. But without Baikonur it will be much worse.
        3. Hemul
          Hemul 12 December 2012 16: 25
          -2
          And also "Kazkosmos" and "Kazakh Space Agency" sound so funny. Just like the "Zimbabwe Bureau of Genetic Engineering" or "Azerbaijan Institute for Nuclear Research". Yes, without the Soviet heritage, these Kazakhs will not launch anything into the sky better than a hunting falcon. Ugh, damn it, no words.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 12 December 2012 16: 45
            +5
            Quote: Hemul
            "Azerbaijan Institute for Nuclear Research".

            Institute of Radiation Problems of NAS of Azerbaijan
            The Institute of Radiation Problems is a scientific organization within the system of the National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan, engaged in fundamental scientific and technical research in the field of peaceful uses of nuclear energy, radiation safety, radioecology, and radiation materials science. Here, research is being carried out in the field of physical and technical problems of energy, the conversion of non-traditional types of energy, radiation effects in solids, as well as the exchange of internal and external information in these areas.
            Direction of activity
            Peaceful use of nuclear energy
            Radiation materials science and radiation physics
            Nuclear and radiation safety (Ecology, Radioecology, Radiobiology)
            Physico-chemical problems of energy conversion processes. Alternative energy
            Achievements
            Studies of radiation-stimulating processes in solids:
            It was revealed that the centers of radiation-heterogeneous decomposition of water on the surface of zirconium are charged states
            The regularities of the formation and recombination of luminescence centers in layered GaS single crystals under the influence of gamma radiation are established.
            A relaxor ferroelectric state of a TIInS2 crystal was obtained under the action of gamma radiation (D> 300 Mrad)
            Obtaining and research of energy converters based on polymer composites, nanocomposites and compounds of the AIVBIV type. A special composite system was revealed in which the dependence of the luminescence intensity that occurs at the absorbed dose of γ-radiation of 0,5-1,5 Mrad and Tγ = 165 K, on ​​the radiation dose is linear.
            The physicochemical regularities of the processes of liquefaction and gasification of solid organic waste using renewable sources of energy and radiation are revealed.
            For the first time, crude oil was prepared for refining in an oil field using a solar power plant.
            It was revealed for the first time that the processes of radiolytic transformation of air (nitrogen dioxide) are stimulated by delta electrons emitted from dispersed iron.
            Study of the radioecological and physicochemical impact of energy-fuel complexes on the environment
            1. Hemul
              Hemul 12 December 2012 17: 07
              0
              Hmm. So I went too far, I apologize if this research institute still has a lot of achievements winked
              And do you know anything about the Zimbabwe Bureau of Genetic Engineering? And that is horror how interesting.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 12 December 2012 17: 15
                +4
                Quote: Hemul
                And do you know anything about the Zimbabwe Bureau of Genetic Engineering? And that is horror how interesting.

                Alas, I don’t know! They have few opportunities to have such a bureau!
                And Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, in many respects thanks to the USSR, have educated people, scientists!
                For example;
                Lutfi Zadeh (1921)
                A scientist from Azerbaijan, the founder of the theory of fuzzy logic in the field of artificial intelligence, professor at the University of California at Berkeley. He is the only person elected for life as a professor at this institution of higher education. Honorary Chairman of the Diaspora Organizations of Azerbaijan in America, Lutfi Zadeh is a member of several foreign academies. Lutfi Zadeh is considered the most cited scientist in the world. Only in 1990-2000 more than 36000 references to his works were made.
                Rufat Mir-Asadulla oglu Mir-Kasymov
                Outstanding physicist, doctor of physical and mathematical sciences. Born in the city of Baku. He graduated from the Department of Physics of Moscow State University. He currently works at the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in the city of Dubna (Russia).

                Thanks to geography and sound economic policies, finance for research
            2. Papakiko
              Papakiko 12 December 2012 18: 41
              0
              drinks good Krasava. laughing
              Anyone have information about the "Zimbabwe Bureau of Genetic Engineering" or "ZulusNANO"?
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 18: 01
            0
            Excuse me, did he invent the first real missiles in the USSR, or did he create it thanks to foreign developments?
            You personally won't be able to create bast shoes (both with the Soviet legacy, or without it), but you consider yourself to be "geniuses", allowing yourself to be dirty with non-Russians.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 16 December 2012 18: 04
              0
              But this is already in vain. Korolev still oh when I started. Himself, not from old books. This is Americans after von Braun stuck
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 19: 44
                -1
                You still remember Zander! Real cosmonautics in our country began from the moment we got access to German developments. Korolev is smart, but without the Germans, they would hardly have created astronautics at the level that they eventually owned.
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 16 December 2012 20: 03
                  0
                  Why not Tsiolkovsky and Kibalchich? Real space exploration begins with the first successful launch. And the Germans here, by the way, are also not pioneers. Either you have to accept that Hitler was able to stimulate their brains SO, or ... to admit that the guys from Ananerbe really found something and did not create their developments from a "blank slate". For example, the warhead detonated in Alamogordo was ... plutonium. I will take the insolence to remind you that this is not found in the composition of the chemical elements of the planet Earth. So, it needed to be worked out. The "Fat Man" dropped on Nagasaki was also plutonium. Only two of these warheads required the amount of plutonium-239, which, with those capacities, they would not have had time to work out PHYSICALLY, even if they had known about it from the very beginning of the Manhattan project and would have purposefully engaged in fueling it (abandoning everything else). For those not in the know, it is formed as a by-product in a uranium reactor. And the scheme by which these two warheads were assembled is called the "beggar scheme". It is based on the characteristics of this isotope and allows you to create a 20 kiloton warhead with minimal hassles. A workable charge of any other efficiency is an order of magnitude more complicated and with the help of the then available technical means we DO NOT REALIZE. By the way, the United States acquired its own nuclear warheads ... a year later than Moscow. And even then, the first two or three of the tested did NOT WORK. Americans got three warhead, immediately tested them, and then ... bluffed until they managed to get their own. Only the Germans could "share" (as payment for the possibility of organizing bases in South America). Are they unattainable geniuses? Or, nevertheless, knowingly rummaged around the planet in search of information? By the way, what has been written about plutonium became known somewhere after a couple of decades of practical work with fissile isotopes. Intuitively, it was IMPOSSIBLE to come across this, there is completely atypical behavior of the isotope ...
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 20: 36
                    -1
                    Yes, even though we recall Tsiolkovsky and Kibalchich! And to the heap of a certain mythical peasant Nikiforov, exiled for his thoughts about space flights to Baikonur! I have a great respect for Russian scientists (Tsiolkovsky and Zander), I was read in childhood by their biographies. However, it was only under Sergei Korolev that astronautics in our country became tangible. And only after we took thousands of German engineers of the Nazi military-industrial complex, including and rocket science experts. Remember how the first Soviet R-1 rocket was created (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0-1_%28%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1% 82% D0% B0% 2
                    9). With it begins our real space program.
                    The Chinese are using the USSR know-how, tomorrow they will do their own astronautics. Fortunately, this state has money and desire. It would be foolish for Kazakhs to remain on the sidelines, being the owner of Baikonur, having money (enough to start), having their own cosmonauts, having ambitions. All the prerequisites are there, but here on the forum the crowd is beating in hysterics, how did the Kazakhs dare to think about space! Their place as a janitor in Moscow! Roskosmos reacts in exactly the same way, which stubbornly does not want to develop a cosmodrome in KZ, it is easier for them to call their Kazakh counterpart an incompetent upstart than to really agree to mutually beneficial cooperation. Ros.kosm.vlasta act according to the principle: "neither to ourselves, nor to people" - and we ourselves will not develop Baikonur, and we will not let the Kazakhs revive it! Here is the policy of Roscosmos. The Russian authorities have actually doomed Baikonur to death. Now the task is not to give Kazakhstan the opportunity to develop this facility, because he is the first competitor of the future Russian cosmodrome. And for this purpose, articles will constantly appear that the Kazakhs allegedly drive the Russians out of the cosmodrome, that the Kazakhs are a backward nation that is unworthy of Baikonur, that the cooperation of Kazakhs with Ukrainians is an alleged conspiracy against the "Russian people", and that Kazakhs in general are just a nation of janitors and stupid shepherds. The main thing is not to get overwhelmed that they themselves have signed the death warrant for this cosmodrome.
                    They say to Russia: "We are ready to pay Russia, if only Russia remains at Baikonur and behaves like a prudent owner there. We want Kazakhstan to take on the support of unnecessary urban infrastructure that is not involved in space activities. We want Russia and Kazakhstan to be are tightly bound by the desire to develop Baikonur ". But, badge-fly, some commentators here, even in the eyes of a ssy, will still see the image of an evil barbarian who hand over launch pads for scrap metal. This is how dumb you have to be!
                    Kazakhs say to Moscow: "There are normal" clean "technologies, let's deal with them, we are ready to pay as much as necessary, if we ourselves do not want to spend on normal fuel for Baikonur rockets." And in response, Roskosmos scrambles with bricks in the media - "We were betrayed! Kazakhs forbid Russia to launch rockets from Baikonur !!!"
        4. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 41
          0
          Russia itself long ago decided to build a new cosmodrome on its territory. Russia did not go to any real space projects with Kazakhstan in Baikonur, and all the more so it is not going to share technologies and capabilities at its cosmodrome. Russia's desire is simple - to build its own spaceport, and while it is unfinished, squeeze everything out of Baikonur to the maximum, NOT CONTRIBUTING to its development, and leave the killed complex in 2050.
          Kazakhs, of course, do not want to be idiots and offer Russia to start developing the cosmodrome. Russian officials, in turn, are beginning to hysteria - "Kazakhs are driving Russians out of Baikonur!" Although Moscow, on the contrary, is offered close cooperation. However, most of the Russian inhabitants prefer to masturbate on the theme of a cunning narrow-eyed shepherd who dreams of driving out a poor Russian engineer and grazing cattle on the ruins of a cosmodrome. Understandably, some people like to consider themselves a tortured victim and be hysterical, releasing their exhausted emotions for their psychological relaxation.
          Kazakhs do not want money from Russia, but they themselves are ready to pay Moscow, if only the spaceport would not fall apart by the end of the lease term. Che you stupid mass here?
      2. Bubo
        Bubo 12 December 2012 12: 54
        +1
        It seems that Mr. Musabaev voiced some of his own, purely personal, we must pay tribute to the patriotic fantasies. In which Kazakhstan seems to him an independent space power. winked
        1. sergskak
          sergskak 12 December 2012 15: 17
          +1
          Space power is just pi .......... c !!!! Gondo ........ we are alone !!!
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 18: 04
          0
          Musabaev suggested that Russia take up the development of Baikonur, and the Russian bureaucrats raised hysteria. Kazakhstan has already hesitated to persuade Russia to take JOINT actions that will be beneficial to both countries. We are not going to develop the cosmodrome on our own, and that is why we are aimed EXCLUSIVELY at joint work. This is not Musabayev, but you are voicing some fantasies about "independence".
      3. datur
        datur 12 December 2012 14: 09
        -1
        mar.tira, and give to the Chinese? in general, Kazakhs are friends with the head? Yes, they .... Kazakhs, they need territory and subsoil, and they will quickly eliminate this elite! the Chinese of their new and old elite have nowhere to go !!!
    2. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 12 December 2012 08: 50
      +12
      Why blow up? The one who built it can blow up ... You just need to destroy it to the base ... But what for?

      The fact that some stump from Kazcosmos blurted out there is not a reason to get up on your ears.

      It should be noted that there have been no official statements yet.

      Here! They will - we'll see. And yell like "Grab your bags, the station is leaving!" - early.

      Kommersant has already quoted a source close to the Russian-Kazakh intergovernmental commission dealing with issues at the Baikonur Cosmodrome

      Nate to you ... a certain source close to the commission ... It could be me. I have a cousin of my second cousin’s wife who works part-time in Moscow as a cleaner in Roscosmos. Very damn good source.

      The situation was clarified a little by the press service of the Kazakh space department. She claims that there are no complaints against the Russian side.

      Little? Oh well...

      the press service also cannot name the approximate dates for the end of the consultations and the possible transfer of the launch pad

      That is, everything is written with a pitchfork on the water? What is yelling?

      statements by T. Musabaev have already become widespread

      Well, to kick a fool, to keep his mouth shut while drunk ...

      a number of experts are already trying to make forecasts about the future of Zenit complexes and even the whole of Baikonur, if they are transferred to the Kazakh side.

      Experts ... well, well ... we saw these "experts" ... also, see, "close to".

      In short, all this bullshit. Another semi-provocative throw. Or maybe provocative. Someone wanted to see how we would yell at the Kazakhs here. blow up, show the figs, well, as usual.

      meanwhile, the article had a very reasonable idea:

      Even the Kazakhs themselves admit their inability to fully and efficiently maintain a spaceport
      the Kazakh space industry cannot yet independently engage in the construction of rockets, which is why the "sole" ownership of a large spaceport looks at least dubious.


      Well, why fence the garden? A normal person understands everything. There are no carriers, the spaceport itself will not be able to contain. Personnel, if anything, will move to the Far East. Amba.
      And fools and scoundrels are everywhere. I would not be surprised if it turns out that Comrade Musabaev said something quite different. this is his "misunderstood" gentlemen zhurnal this ...

      Kazakhstan is an ally and neighbor of Russia so that they don’t speak there. Bad, good - neighbor and ally. And to drive wedges nefig. And fan the fire where it doesn’t exist.
      1. YARY
        YARY 12 December 2012 09: 31
        -6
        Musabaev to deprive of awards and the watchman on a melon!
        And have to blow up!
        Moreover, there is a complex!

        Otherwise it may fall into the "wrong hands"
        1. sq
          sq 12 December 2012 12: 20
          -6
          and watchman for melon
          But even there, qualifications are needed and the ability to work, to guard - not to bend your fingers in the office.
          1. Spooky
            Spooky 15 December 2012 12: 44
            0
            Let cunning less money from Russian asks!
        2. nnnnnn
          nnnnnn 12 December 2012 13: 02
          0
          about Musabaev, the comrade Hero of Russia would have calmed down and you wouldn’t have handed him the awards, but would you cut a pumpkin if there was gray matter left and read once more the article of the next rumor of the yellow press
          1. plotnikov561956
            plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 15: 12
            +1
            Quote: nnnnnn
            about Musabaev, the comrade Hero of Russia would have calmed down and you wouldn’t have handed him the awards, but would you cut a pumpkin if there was gray matter left and read once more the article of the next rumor of the yellow press


            The conversation is not about Musabayev or that he blurted out not in his rank. You need to look at the fact. The decision to build "Vostochny" was taken for more serious reasons and therefore they are. We can judge this fact from our bell tower - we can only about the fact of building a Russian cosmodrome. Putin's foresight and strategy in geopolitics is evidenced by a fresh fact with Gabala. automatic replacement of it with Armavir, pay attention to the timing ... the Gabala train is still standing, but Armavir has already arrived ... Here ... something like that. I don't want to draw parallels ... but there are facts and they are on the face
      2. Focker
        Focker 12 December 2012 09: 40
        +5
        You write the right things, but so write that och. it becomes unpleasant. "Some kind of stump from Kazkosmos blurted out", "to make a fool so that he could keep his mouth shut by drunkenness" ... Do you even know who T. Musabayev is, what could be expressed like that?

        And about this:
        Quote: Banshee
        Kazakhstan is an ally and neighbor of Russia so that they don’t speak there. Bad, good - neighbor and ally. And to drive wedges nefig. And fan the fire where it doesn’t exist.

        totally agree with you.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 12 December 2012 09: 59
          +6
          Focker Roy,

          Personally, I know from both my own and historical experience that all allies can be bought and sold. Today’s friend is tomorrow’s enemy, so you need to rely only on yourself.
          1. EropMyxoMop
            EropMyxoMop 12 December 2012 11: 37
            +2
            The stupid habit of Modern Russia is quarreling with those who did not betray collapse in the most daring years. Belarusians constantly quarreling over the past couple of years crushed in different ways until the dad gave Gazprom a piece of the pipe. Gazprom raped the pipe Russian oligarchs grabbed the dough and the already not fat budget Belarusians became even smaller. At the same time, those who constantly spit in the direction of Russia, Estonians, Latvians and other evil spirits do not touch, although they could press down their economy dependent on Russia without problems. Kazakhstan will not bring Russia to power in Nazarbayev.
            1. DmitriRazumov
              DmitriRazumov 13 December 2012 18: 26
              0
              Actually, the position of the so-called. "friends" who, after the collapse of the USSR, hastened to privatize everything that was created by the labor of millions of highly qualified specialists from all over the great country (primarily from the Russian Federation). I have repeatedly visited the cosmodrome in Soviet times, and I know not by hearsay what a catastrophe its capture by the Kazakhs turned out to be. Previously, the world's largest cosmodrome was the city of Leninsk (11284) and dozens of launch complexes scattered across the steppe. Operation and support was carried out mainly by officers of the USSR Armed Forces. The Kazakhs had nothing to do with this. Moreover, the territory of the cosmodrome was guarded as a secret military facility and the penetration of the local population there was impossible. This ensured a high cultural, scientific and technical level of the staff. After the collapse, Kazakhstan unilaterally declared the cosmodrome its property, security was removed and thousands of local residents rushed into the city. It was akin to the Tatar invasion. The families of the servicemen began to leave the city. There was no one to operate not only the launch complexes, but also the elementary housing and communal services. Total looting by the Kazakhs began in the city. The abandoned houses exploded from the fact that the locals stole gas equipment and everything that was bad. Then the leadership of Kazakhstan realized that something needed to be done and the corresponding intergovernmental agreements were concluded, which now allow maintaining at least somehow the remaining sites and infrastructure. However, at present, Kazakhstan has begun to pump rights again, requires additional funds for rent, imposes penalties for emergency launches, threatens to expel the Russian Federation from the cosmodrome ... It is clear that this is a bluff. And the Kazakhs are unable not only to develop the space industry, but also to exploit what by some miracle (with the help of the Russian Federation) has survived. they declare that they will hand over the cosmodrome to some foreigners, invite them, etc. But in this case, no foreigners are ready to pump up colossal funds for rent and, most importantly, for the modernization of the cosmodrome. They have Kourou, Cape Canaveral, etc. By and large, no one, except for the Russian Federation, needs this facility and no one will be able to effectively operate it. However, the latest actions of the leadership of Kazakhstan suggest that they have a poor understanding of the scale of the destruction that is. have carried out themselves for many years.
              1. Focker
                Focker 14 December 2012 00: 54
                +3
                -1 You still say that in Russia after the collapse of the USSR you did not have such embezzlement and you carefully preserved everything. But don’t tell me, there’s nothing to nod at us, look at yourself. A similar thing happened everywhere on the territory of the former. THE USSR. There was a time like that.
                And regarding the fact that non-locals worked at Baikonur, so if the geographical location did not matter, then the cosmodrome would generally be built somewhere near the city of Korolev. This is part of this city. And it is clear that people from there and other cities directly related to space will work at the cosmodrome. And resp. education. And not local. And the place for the construction of the cosmodrome was chosen taking into account the distance from large cities in the steppe. What do you want?
                And you should not quote the word FRIENDS in quotes, speaking about Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is one of the most friendly states in Russia, this is evidenced by polls (http://bit.ly/QAhFuB) and cases (TS) of Kazakhstan. So it is and so in general it was.
                So do not say nonsense and stop whining already.
                1. DmitriRazumov
                  DmitriRazumov 14 December 2012 11: 41
                  -2
                  Actually, Kazakhstan was invented by Grandfather Stalin. I know well what the national carpet of the republic is like. My grandfather was born near Petropavlovsk in the Cossack village and lived all the lives in this city. In the time of tsarist Russia, the concept of the Kazakh nation did not exist. The North was mainly settled and mastered by Cossacks (consider the Russians) Kotor. carried the agricultural culture and the culture of urban construction into the region. In the 30s, it was decided to form another national republic with the titular nation in the form of Kazakhs, although earlier the tribes inhabiting these places were mainly called Kyrgyz. The territories of the former Orenburg province and part of Siberia, which in particular included the so-called. North Kazakhstan region, inhabited by 99% of Cossacks, i.e. Russian. Of course, the population was not enthusiastic, but in the 30s it was not customary to talk about it out loud. In principle, from my own experience and observations, I know that there has never been any special friction between the so-called Kazakhs and Russians, however, with the collapse of the USSR and the emergence of the Kazakh state, clearly nationalist tendencies were identified in the leadership of Kazakhstan and the desire to blame everything that was bad in the country for Russia and Russians. In the discussion of this article, Nazarbayev’s statements are given ... I don’t want to repeat myself. The Baikonur problem also arises from these last positions of the Kazakh establishment.
                  1. Focker
                    Focker 14 December 2012 13: 03
                    +3
                    I won’t argue about history, because I’m not so competent in this matter. But there is a user, Marek Rozny (http://topwar.ru/user/Marek+Rozny/), he comments on everything with some delay. days. So if he wanders here, he will be able to argue with you on this topic and you may even change your point of view in the end. I can only say that I am Russian by nationality, I am very proud of it and how Kazakhs treat Russians I know better than you. As well as "what is the national carpet of the republic", because I still live here, and you do not. There are nationalistic beginnings here, as in any other country. But they are much smaller than any of the former republics. THE USSR. Even in Russia, my small homeland, things are worse in this regard. Regarding the words of N. Nazarbayev, this is politics! And I have always believed that one should judge not by what a person says, but because of what he does. And under Nazarbayev, the affairs of Kazakhstan, in my opinion, have two directions: their own development and closer interaction with Russia. Baikonur, on the other hand, is an operating business that brings in a lot of money. And of course no one wants to be left out, hence all the claims.
                    1. DmitriRazumov
                      DmitriRazumov 14 December 2012 14: 23
                      +1
                      In my opinion, the collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy not only for the Russian people, but for the majority of the population of the Union. God grant that politicians are fully aware of this.
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 18: 40
                      +2
                      :)))) Sorry that I’m always reading the site at the wrong time) Business takes a lot of time) Therefore, I’m always writing late here) Thank you for responding as a real Russian person whom the Kazakh has always respected and respected. Russian, German, Korean, Kyrgyz and others are always a welcome guest and a true friend for the Kazakh. Well, arrogant Nazis with blue eyes or Asian cheekbones will always be found as an unpleasant pebble in the boot :) The main thing is to shake the boot in time, otherwise the mood will be lousy and it will affect the attitude towards the surrounding fellow travelers :) And we all (Kazakhs, Russians, Kazakhstanis) , to the Russians) together we still have to go;)
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 19: 36
                    0
                    Dmitry Razumov,
                    The Kazakh state arose in the middle of the 15th century. The main population was nomadic, but there were many cities with modern infrastructure in those centuries in Kazakhstan. Diplomatic relations between the Kazakh Khanate and the Moscow Principality (and later with the Russian Empire) were constantly developing, the nephew of the Kazakh Khan Taukel was the commander of the Russian army in the Crimean direction and died at the hands of supporters of False Dmitry. Correspondence between the khans and kings went through the Ambassadorial order (the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at that time) and a bunch of documents were preserved, reflecting all the realities of bilateral relations and the growth of Russian influence from the small Moscow state to the autocratic Empire.
                    In the 18th century, the Kazakh khans began the process of voluntarily joining the growing empire, which was associated with most of the Turkic peoples as a natural continuation of Ulug Ulus ("Golden Horde"), and the Russian tsar was perceived by the steppe people as the heir of the Chingizids (this is a large and very interesting topic). When the Kazakh Khanate became part of Russia, the Khanate was originally an analogue of a modern autonomous republic. However, in the 19th century, St.Petersburg eliminated the Kazakh khan power, and the territory of Kazakhstan was split into separate general governorships. This was the case until the overthrow of the tsarist regime in Russia. Initially, the Russians called Kazakhs by their self-name since the 15th century - Kazakami, then, when Russia had its own Cossacks (Don and others), then they began to call us Kyrgyz Cossacks, Kyrgyz Cossacks, then Kyrgyz Kaysaks and then simply Kyrgyz, although real Kyrgyz - although it is related, but still a different people. The Russians called the real Kirghiz the Kara-Kirghiz.
                    After the overthrow of Nicholas II, the Kazakhs achieved the restoration of the Kazakh Republic, first in the form of autonomy of the RSFSR (Kyrgyz ASSR) in 1920 (as you can see Stalin has nothing to do with the Kagbe), and after the Bolsheviks ruined their Cossacks after the civil war (and it seemed like it was believed that the problem resolved once and for all), then in 1925 the republic was named quite correctly in accordance with the national self-name - the Kazak ASSR. And in 1936, the Kazak ASSR received the status of a union republic, tk. The Kazakhs were at that time a fairly large nation (or rather the largest Turkic people in the USSR) and their indigenous lands were naturally not disputed by anyone, since there were almost no Russians in KZ. The Russians were concentrated in former military fortresses, but the vast majority of local Kazakhs lived around them. However, in the 20s, the process of industrial development began, in connection with which masses of people began to be sent to the agrarian republic for "Komsomol" construction projects. During the first two five-year plans, hundreds of thousands of people from the western regions of the USSR came to Kazakhstan. During the Second World War, a bunch of peoples were exiled to Kazakhstan and a lot of evacuees arrived. In 1954, a virgin epic began, which again came with a bunch of personnel from the western regions. And coupled with gigantic losses among the Kazakhs as a result of the two Holodomors that happened in the 20s and 30s (caused by collectivization), and significant losses during the war years (600 thousand Kazakhs did not return from the battlefields of Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad), then already by the 1970s, Kazakhs began to account for only about a third of the total population of the Kazakh SSR. It is clear that the arriving migrants were not told the history of Kazakhstan (there was no such subject at all in the schools of Kazakhstan, as well as the Kazakh language lessons for ethnic non-Kazakhs in those years), and, accordingly, the whole idea of ​​Kazakhs among the arrived workers and peasants was formed from some scraps of table conversations with the same Ivanovs. Moreover, many things were banned (the topic of a sharp two-fold reduction of the Kazakh population in the 30s, for example).
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 19: 38
                      0
                      Regarding the North-Kaz.region (the capital is Petropavlovsk), there have never been mythical 99% of Russians there. The city was indeed founded by Russians (or rather soldiers as a military base, in modern terms), but the territory was inhabited exclusively by local Kazakhs. During the founding of the Peter and Paul Fortress, all Russians in the area were sent soldiers. There was no permanent civilian Russian population until the 19th century, except for the visiting merchants. By the way, the coat of arms of Petropavlovsk, approved in 1842, depicted a camel with bales, led by a rope by an Asian. A strange coat of arms for the "native Russian land";) Not a peasant is depicted, not a plow, but a Kazakh with a camel ... I explained above how Northern Kazakhstan was settled. And now in the aforementioned Petropavlovsk there are more Russians than Kazakhs, however, you will very much surprise the local Russians if you find at least one ancient Russian cemetery in the region. But there are countless ancient steppe mounds and Muslim cemeteries in the district, which is not surprising for Kyzylzhar (the Kazakh name for the region where Petropavlovsk is located).
                      As for today, there are no frictions between Russian Kazakhs and Kazakhs to this day. Friction can arise only among those who, like you, believe that the Kazakhs allegedly called themselves Kyrgyz (not to be confused with the fact that Kazakhs in the documents of the tsarist period had to write "Kyrgyz" in Russian, otherwise the document would be void of legal force ) or with those representatives of the Russian people who allow themselves offensive attacks. This is not the place in Kazakhstan. In our country, the state does not allow a nationalist to loose his girdle, even if he is the most Kazakh Kazakh. Roughly speaking, if two chauvinists - a Kazakh and a Russian - fight, then the Kazakh will go to jail, and the Russian will be asked to collect the money and leave for Russia. Although, for a long time, Kazakhstanis have not encountered in real life the mythical frenzied chauvinism in their country in relation to any Kazakhstani. In the early 90s, it all ended before it began.
                      Well, to deny the excesses committed in our history during tsarism or Stalinism is stupid. There was such a thing, and the Kazakhs have the right to remember this. But this should not be confused with the attitude towards the Russian (and even the Jewish) people. When they swear at Russia, recalling the tyranny of the tsarist government or the famine of the 30s, they mean not the peasant "Ivanov" or the poet Pushkin, to whom monuments are still erected in the KZ, but the soulless government that was sitting in St. Petersburg or in the Kremlin.
                      As for Baikonur, I unsubscribed at the very bottom of the comment field, citing an excerpt from an interview. I hope for a reasonable understanding and that I will see you as a healthy person, with whom I associate the Russian people, and not a hooting undergrowth, who do not want to be attributed to any nation at all.
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic 12 December 2012 10: 47
          +20
          Quote: Focker
          Here you seem to write the right things, but write so that och. it becomes unpleasant. "Some kind of stump from Kazkosmos blurted out", "to make a fool so that he could keep his mouth shut by drunkenness" ... Do you even know who T. Musabayev is, what could be expressed like that?


          Well, in vain the man was bombarded. Always keep in mind that most. Kazakhstan users on the VO website react painfully to any news about their distance from Russia. They consider Russia the main and natural partner and do not want to see China or the countries of the West in its place.
          At the same time, our users would like to be advised to be more restrained in the comments, because each insult reduces the camp of supporters of Eurasian integration in Kazakhstan(I emphasize in Kazakhstan, our closest partner, along with Belarus) and ultimately plays into the hands of our common detractors.
          After all, Musabaev did not say anything new about the level of discussion of the issue in my comment below and discussfrankly in his statement there is nothing, Some declarations of intent by nothing and no one backed up.
          But catchy headers like "Kazakhstan drives Russia away from Baikonur" successfully do their destructive work.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 21: 16
            0
            As for the attitude of Kazakhs to Russians, everything is true. The Kazakhs believed and still believe that the main ethnic groups of the common Empire are the closest people, and Russia, as a state, is our main ally and friend. But any Kazakh was indignant and will be indignant when he hears from Russia offensive statements addressed to him or the dismissive silence of some tragic moments in our common history. Kazakhs do not need an apology or excuse that the Turks were, were, pragmatic people, it is in Ukraine or Georgia that the authorities allow the past to spoil the present and future. But even when they pretend that the Kazakhs allegedly skated like cheese in oil, it upsets even a young man, even an old man.
            It is also true that the mass of negative statements about Kazakhs on the Internet from Russians in the news make many wonder whether Kazakhstan should deepen its relations with Russia. Many are already convinced that the entire Russian people consists of down-and-out Nazis, who are obsessed with racial purity and the indisputable domination of the Russian ethnos over the rest. And such statements are in almost any news commented by Russians. Teenagers think about this the most. "Russia = chauvinists" is a stamp in Kazakhstan, which every year becomes more and more familiar even for local Russians. And this worries the adult generation, for which it is getting harder and harder to prove to the youth that not all Russians in Russia are illiterate nationalists who cannot even write in Russian.
            (For the most part, Kazakhs speak Russian better than Russians in Russia, so the nagging of Russian unfortunate experts about the allegedly oppressed Russian language in Kazakhstan causes cognitive dissonance even among the notorious Kazakh Russophobes).
        3. uhjpysq
          uhjpysq 12 December 2012 11: 23
          +3
          what friends you are to us, such friends to the museum. Chezh Russians who can run from there. for a long time it is necessary to spit on you, the Chinese will quickly explain the party policy to you)))))))
          1. Vinnipukh
            Vinnipukh 13 December 2012 13: 54
            +2
            Lists of runaways in the studio. And then as with the billion executed personally by Stalin.
            Oh Head! It’s good that the majority in your government and the majority of Russians are smarter than you, dear commentator. So personally, you can start to spit on us, Kazakhs, even today, if of course you are not afraid to get an answer.
            Yes, yes, yes, the Chinese, in addition to Kazakhstan, are no longer threatening anyone, the Russian Far East and Eastern Siberia are completely protected from them.
        4. Roman Skomorokhov
          Roman Skomorokhov 12 December 2012 13: 01
          +1
          And everything is simple: I do not believe that such a stupid thing could be said by the one in question. I know who Talgat Musabaev is (I’m sorry, I didn’t remember the report).
          My opinion - someone blurted out, and carried along the corridors.
      3. Vadivak
        Vadivak 12 December 2012 09: 51
        +12
        Quote: Banshee
        Kazakhstan is an ally and neighbor of Russia so that they don’t speak there.


        Well, not everything is so smooth October 2012

        1 Kazakhstan’s Foreign Ministry condemned the Syrian authorities for shelling Turkish territory from the position of the Turkish-supported Syrian terrorist “opposition”.

        . Nazarbayev speaks to the Turks: “After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of God, we proclaimed our independence in 1991


        But Nazarbayev needs Russia, since China is impudent, and it’s stupid to count on the Turks and NATO in this matter
        1. uhjpysq
          uhjpysq 12 December 2012 11: 29
          +4
          Belarusians of the same blood with us .. and the Kazakhs even have a different race. They will always be on their own.
        2. bart74
          bart74 12 December 2012 11: 50
          +7
          Yes I agree with you. The real historical territory of the Kazakhs is the Uyghur AO in China. And all that is now called Kazakhstan is the Russian southern Urals. And there have always been more Russians there. Kazakhs lived like gypsies wandering on trains! over the steppes. Until 1949, Kazakhstan was part of the RSFSR. Here it is. It’s not worth it to put it down. Is there a contract until 2050? Here in 2050 and we will breed bazaars. And as for the alliance, it is only because there are 9 million Kazakhs, and they are sandwiched between China and Uzbekistan. And the attitude towards Russians in Kazakhstan is not intended. Despite the numerical minority, Kazakhs consider themselves the dominant and leading nation. Therefore, it is necessary with the Kazakhs tough. They don’t remember the good. And they understand only the language of power!
          1. nnnnnn
            nnnnnn 12 December 2012 13: 04
            -4
            HISTORIAN even do not want to answer see all the brains drank laughing
            1. mda
              mda 12 December 2012 18: 32
              -2
              Quote: nnnnnn
              HISTORIAN even do not want to answer see all the brains drank

              Bart74 the truth was told, unlike you, a nationalist damn.
              1. nnnnnn
                nnnnnn 13 December 2012 10: 39
                +2
                one more, about xenophobia and Nazism ??? I saw a speck in a stranger’s eye, but don’t see the log in your own?
              2. Vinnipukh
                Vinnipukh 13 December 2012 14: 26
                -1
                I protest! Pancakes are not nationalists! One must not live by lies!
                But bart74 (3) and you, judging by the comments, are true internationalists and liberals.
          2. Vinnipukh
            Vinnipukh 13 December 2012 14: 24
            +5
            The real historical territory of the Kazakhs is the Uygur Autonomous Okrug in China. And everything that is now called Kazakhstan is the Russian southern Urals. And there were always more Russians there. Kazakhs lived like gypsies roaming on trains! across the steppes. Until 1949 Kazakhstan was part of the RSFSR ".
            Yes, but the real historical territory of the Russian people is within the Moscow principality (sarcasm). To school! Learn history! At least your own state - Russia (if you are from Russia). "On December 5, 1936, the Kazak ASSR was given the status of a union republic with the name of the Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic."
            "Despite the numerical minority, Kazakhs consider themselves to be the dominant and ruling nation".
            Indeed, how dare the Kazakhs. Glory to Allah, there is still an undaunted fighter for truth - a truly handshake bart74 (3)who will reveal the truth to us and put the Kazakhs in their place. After all, one must not live by lies.
      4. Yarbay
        Yarbay 12 December 2012 10: 31
        0
        Quote: Banshee
        Kazakhstan is an ally and neighbor of Russia so that they don’t speak there. Bad, good - neighbor and ally

        I think these are the keywords!
        It seems to me that Kazakhstan has quite justified space ambitions and they want to get space technologies, but they don’t want to share with them !!
        I think everything is connected with this!
        1. in reserve
          in reserve 12 December 2012 15: 52
          +1
          Bubble they want and not space technology.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 12 December 2012 15: 58
            +2
            Quote: in stock
            Bubble they want and not space technology.

            They have enough dough and have nowhere to put it on their own !!
            Kazakhstan needs technology in order to spend money correctly !!
            Create new jobs in the high-tech industry!
            1. in reserve
              in reserve 12 December 2012 16: 56
              -3
              Yarbay
              They have enough dough and have nowhere to put it on their own !!
              Kazakhstan needs technology in order to spend money correctly !!
              Create new jobs in the high-tech industry!


              I don’t see any real progress on their part, if we would like to have real negotiations on the production of missiles in Kazakhstan as an example, cite South Korea they create their launch vehicle the first stage they do our second, and I would say Kazakhstan is already ready and will not use it because neither experience nor desire and spacewalk is nothing cheaper to buy a launch. Therefore, I consider these claims against Russia as a desire to fuck her.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 13 December 2012 12: 42
                +1
                Quote: in stock
                I do not see real progress on their part

                Do you participate in negotiations on these issues?
            2. ded-mazai
              ded-mazai 14 December 2012 16: 11
              -1
              They have enough dough and have nowhere to put it on their own !!

              Not as much as you think!
      5. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 18: 22
        -1
        The Banshees, the Russian media, with the filing of Russian officials, made a form of hysteria, defending the current situation with the spaceport, when it was not invested in the development of nifig. Musabaev was presented as a kind of distant person from the cosmic theme, dreaming of expelling the Russians. Musabaev devoted his entire conscious life to aviation and space, and it is painful for him to look at the fact that Russia is banally treating Baikonur. Purposefully and cynically. The position of the Russian side is absolutely understandable, they do not want to spend money on the development of two spaceports. And none of the Russian space administration will support Musabaev. That's why they make an idiot out of him in the media.
        And in what state Russia usually leaves objects after lease - a parable in tongues in Kazakhstan. All objects are retrieved after the expiration date in a virtually destroyed state. So it was with ordinary military training grounds, in which officers even broke the tiles in the toilets before leaving. So it was with the "Daryal-U", in which not a single tiny working mechanism remained. So it will be with Baikonur in 2050.
        Moreover, the Kazakhs (that people, that officials) were, are and remain supporters of cooperation with Russia as the most important friend and partner. It’s just annoying when someone in Moscow tries to make us idiots.
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 16 December 2012 23: 57
          -1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Moreover, the Kazakhs (that people, that officials) were, are and remain supporters of cooperation with Russia as the most important friend and partner. It’s just annoying when someone in Moscow tries to make us idiots.

          Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev said that by 2025, the Kazakh alphabet will be translated into Latin script. According to Kazakhstan Today, he noted that preparations for this should begin now.
          And why of us make idiots?
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 14: 31
            -1
            And what is the matter to the Russian person, what alphabet do Kazakhs use? Are you used to reading Kazakh in Cyrillic? Are you alarmed because of this? :))))) Kick-ass funny :))))) Yes, and by the way, Kazakhs used the Latin alphabet even before the introduction of the Cyrillic alphabet. At my place, all the old Kazakh-speaking documents of my grandfather are written in Latin letters. Well, this is so - a historical excursion for people who are not versed in Kazakh writing.
            And the translation of the language into the Latin script is a necessary thing in the modern world. I often go abroad, and I am used to writing messages home in Latin transliteration due to the lack of "Bulgarian" writing. So I'm only "FOR" the Latin script. And there is no nationalist motive. Do you want to write in Bulgarian letters in Russia? It's your right. The Kazakhs are going to switch to the Latin alphabet unambiguously (gradually, slowly). What angered you? Or are you one of those "comrades" who are convinced that Kazakhs should ask permission from the "wise northern neighbor" in such matters? Don't you give a fuck what font I'm using? You cannot connect two words in my language ...
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 17 December 2012 18: 59
              -1
              Look, the flag has changed from the American !!!
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And what is the matter to the Russian person, what alphabet do Kazakhs use?

              Yes, write at least Chinese characters. Perhaps useful. China is nearby.

              Nazarbayev went to Turkey. I consulted with a "wise southern neighbor" and possibly with an overseas "uncle. He did not want to write any more using the alphabet of the" colonizers. "That there are 33 Russian letters and 42 Kazakh letters based on them? Much better than 26 letters, but It's nothing that there are still millions of Russians left in Kazakhstan. By the way, how do you feel about Altynsarin, Abai, Dzhambul? More than 3 million have left and we will force others. But we still want freebies. Let Russia create a space industry for Kazakhstan. for the first time to tear away from ourselves for “friends.” They just taught Yushchenko and Timoshenko. They built the “Nord Stream.” Therefore, Russia is building its own cosmodrome so as not to depend on the “friends.”
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Yes, and by the way, Kazakhs used the Latin alphabet even before the introduction of the Cyrillic alphabet

              How many years did you use? 10 or 15?
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Well, this is so - a historical excursion for people who are not versed in Kazakh writing.


              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Aren't you fucking

              Dare you look at nete.
              Dұshpanyңnan bіr saқtan,
              The zhaman is brought to usңққққ.
              1. Marekrozny
                Marekrozny 17 December 2012 19: 41
                0
                1) That the flag on the site was American - a jamb or provider (Beeline, by the way), or the site itself. But I look at you even for this wild delight with three exclamation points.
                2) If you don’t care what alphabet the Kazakhs use, what the hell started this topic?
                3) Nazarbayev, not after a trip to Turkey, announced that sooner or later we would switch to the Latin alphabet, this was said more than ten years ago, and then work began with Latin variants. Although how do you know the Kazakh news related to the Kazakh language. For you, the theme of the transition to the Latin alphabet is the opening of today.
                4) Since when did the Bulgarian writing become "Russian"? Or Cyril and Methodius were Russian by nationality? And why then, in that case, do not you call the Kazakh version of the Cyrillic alphabet - "Kazakh" letters?
                5) Regarding the discrepancy between signs and sounds, I will tell you a terrible secret, many alphabets use double letters to denote a specific sound of their language or, in general, special characters such as umlauts or false "s" in German. Or are you even unfamiliar with European languages ​​if you grin like that?
                6) What does the Russians in Kazakhstan and the Kazakh writing have to do with it? In 95% of cases, Russians in Kazakhstan do not understand what is written in Kazakh, whether they use Cyrillic, Latin or Arabic script. Russians are neither hot nor cold from this. Or do you ascribe this to the "regular" proof of infringement of the rights of the Russian-speaking population? There are enough Kazakh Russians on the forum, none of them seems to feel oppressed. On the contrary, they even write that there is no pressure in the KZ on the national basis. Do you want to see Kazakhs as enemies? This is a different question. Such people usually have everything around them - solid "enemies". What's in Kiev, what's in Astana, what's on your own staircase.
                7) What kind of freebie did KZ receive from Russia? Generally, just so for a red word wrote?
                8) And where does Altynsarin, Abay and Dzhambul? Or are you like a progressive Russian who is fond of reading Kazakh classics and trying to inspire me with respect for Russian culture by naming their names? Duc, your efforts are in vain. I know and respect Russian culture more than most of the Russian inhabitants. Fortunately, I often travel on business trips or on a visit to Russia. Yes, and the former Russian himself.
                9) Kazakhstan does not expect a freebie from Russia. Kazakhstan IS READY to pay for space development itself. This has already been written a hundred times. And Kazakhstan has already paid a huge mass of dollars to Russia for the Kazsat-1-type space projects successfully failed by Moscow, the launches of satellites from an airplane and the Baiterek. In these Russian projects, only Russia itself remained in financial gain. Kazakhstan, to put it mildly, was swindled like a child for hundreds of millions of dollars. And what is Russia going to allegedly "tear away" from itself in favor of Kazakhstan? Baikonur itself or what? Is Baikonur the property of the Russian Federation ??? Don't give what doesn't belong to you.
                10) I looked in Google, looked for Kazakh proverbs? Now, so supposedly they prove their education? You became an expert in linguistics 10 minutes ago? Wahahaha :)))) Struck to death! How dare I argue about the Kazakh alphabet with a person who knows how to find words incomprehensible to him in Google for my Turkic dialect? :)))) And can you transfer my last phrase with the same elegant ease to the Kazakh mov?

                Well, and your last phrase kanesh frightened me))) You still beat me an arrow, and after I, essno, ignore your serious offer to come to your city for a cool showdown, write with pride on the forum that I am like a word I do not answer and was blown away by your "male" proposal :)))))) Comedian :))))
                1. Was mammoth
                  Was mammoth 17 December 2012 22: 14
                  -1
                  Quote: MarekRozny
                  Now, so supposedly they prove their education?

                  And I did not know that the smartest and most educated on the site is MarekRozny. Who will tell and explain everything. I didn’t know that I was writing not in Russian, but in Bulgarian. Maybe I speak Bulgarian? And I learned about the "secrets". Lots of words and little meaning.
                  Quote: MarekRozny
                  And here Altynsarin, Abay and Dzhambul? Or are you a type of progressive Russian who is fond of reading Kazakh classics

                  Quote: MarekRozny
                  And then the Russians in Kazakhstan and the Kazakh script?

                  Quote: MarekRozny
                  Kazakhstan, to put it mildly, cheated

                  Quote: MarekRozny
                  Wahahaha :)))) Struck to death!

                  You will be surprised, but I have read Abai, Dzhambul, Auezov, Dzhandarbekov, and others. I don't like lying people. No need to pretend that you do not understand, what does the Russians have to do with and how did the most cunning politician of our time, Nazarbayev, "cheat" it?
                  Beware the enemy once
                  a bad friend a thousand times.
    3. 11 black
      11 black 12 December 2012 10: 57
      +6
      YARY no offense, but tell me honestly you are a member of the Liberal Democratic Party? ... just in mania to destroy everything, blow up and declare war on everyone you can compete with all its famous member ... I have often seen your comments and I think if you do everything like you say we ourselves will not be better than the Anglo-Saxons and generally will not last long as a country, this is of course only my opinion, but agree that
      Quote: Ardent
      Blow everything up to a hair dryer!
      RAVE!!!

      PS I'm waiting for the cons ...
      1. YARY
        YARY 12 December 2012 11: 24
        -1
        Far from my nameless!
        Although I was not going to
        with all her famous member to compete

        I have more anyway laughing

        I will say the following: Better a terrible end than horror without an end.
        And I was taught like this - "Said" a "-speak and" b ""
        Therefore, omissions and all sorts of games "under the sofa" are from the evil one.
        A friend is a friend! And an enemy is an enemy! And the one who lies is the worst enemy.
        Well, I am a peaceful person as a Muslim religion.
        1. YARY
          YARY 12 December 2012 11: 38
          +3
          Py Sy

          If only you (this is me to our "Kazakh allies") did not twist your ass here on the site, but asked from the creature who decided to bash the contract signed until 2050, "What is it, why are you an abomination to quarrel with our beloved neighbor? ?! " That would be 100% supported by me!
          Giving a word, hold on And recently, be strong!
          1. EropMyxoMop
            EropMyxoMop 12 December 2012 11: 46
            +2
            And what not to ask from the Baltic states. It would never have occurred to the stupidest Kazah too. Http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2012/305/eoha337.jpg
            1. YARY
              YARY 12 December 2012 12: 22
              +1
              And what to ask from foshkah? A saber from the crown to the saddle!
              Igor-MP does not remember evil, the MP will write!
            2. sergskak
              sergskak 12 December 2012 12: 41
              +2
              EropMyxoMop, Yes, they revised the story a long time ago. I would like to take all OUR monuments (if you forgot) and transfer them at least to Poklonnaya Gora. No thanks! And to hell with them! Stopped being friends! America is now the main friend of our ex-brothers!
            3. Oprichnik
              Oprichnik 12 December 2012 15: 40
              +1
              Quote: EropMyxoMop
              And what not to ask from the Balts. It would never have occurred to the most stupid Kazakh.


              Well, of course ... Renaming the city of Panfilov to Zharkent is nothing, it is possible ... But in Moscow, the corrupt bureaucrats, contrary to the opinion of the residents of the Brateevo district, imposed on them the name of the Alma-Atinskaya metro station (opens a week later, December 19) , explaining his decision by the fact that the Panfilov division was formed there, which defended Moscow in 1941. Such are the grimaces of political corny and tollerastnost ... About forgeries, falsifications and pressure of the Moscow authorities on the residents of the district and other manifestations of "friendship between peoples" can be read here and in all links to this material: https://sites.google.com/site / metrobrateevo / home; https://sites.google.com/site/metrobrateevo/home/kak-delaut-poslusnymi-vlasti-ve
              teranov-i-invalidov
              By the way, the Embassy of Kazakhstan put a pen on this case (and, probably, something put it into the pens of the city bureaucrats). So there is nothing to blame for the Baltic states (we already know everything about them). In his own eye, it would also not hurt to discern a log.
              1. marshes
                marshes 12 December 2012 15: 50
                +2
                Quote: Oprichnik
                Well, of course ... Renaming the city of Panfilov to Zharkent is nothing, it is possible ... But in Moscow, the corrupt bureaucrats, contrary to the opinion of the residents of the Brateevo district, imposed on them the name of the Alma-Atinskaya metro station (opens a week later, December 19) , explaining his decision by the fact that the Panfilov division was formed there, which defended Moscow in 1941. Such are the grimaces of political corny and tollerastnost ... About forgeries, falsifications and pressure of the Moscow authorities on the residents of the district and other manifestations of "friendship between peoples" can be read here and in all links to this material: https://sites.google.com/site / metrobrateevo / home; https://sites.google.com/site/metrobrateevo/home/kak-delaut-poslusnymi-vlasti-ve

                teranov-i-invalidov
                By the way, the Embassy of Kazakhstan put a pen on this case (and, probably, something put it into the pens of the city bureaucrats). So there is nothing to blame for the Baltic states (we already know everything about them). In his own eye, it would also not hurt to discern a log.

                At present, Almatymatimetrokurylys JSC is building the second stage of the Almaty Metro, which will connect the city center with the village of Kalkaman. In particular, the company began developing a pit for the construction of the Moscow station.

                The total length of the pit will be 456 m, the width is from 33 to 40 m, the depth, taking into account the surface topography, is from 13 to 23 m. The area of ​​the pit will be 18240 sq. m, the total amount of developed soil is about 270 thousand cubic meters. m, including more than 35 thousand cubic meters. m

                To date, the construction of a bypass road and removal of engineering networks from the construction site have been completed, the press service of Almatymetrokurylys JSC reports.
                And so you can see.
                http://www.ridus.ru/news/19104/
                1. Oprichnik
                  Oprichnik 12 December 2012 16: 08
                  +4
                  Quote: marshes
                  At present, Almatymatimetrokurylys JSC is building the second stage of the Almaty Metro, which will connect the city center with the village of Kalkaman. In particular, the company began developing a pit for the construction of the Moscow station.


                  Brothers are just happy and repent for their intolerance ... recourse What about the city of Panfilov?
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 12 December 2012 16: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Oprichnik
                    What about the city of Panfilov?

                    What about Leningrad?
                    1. Oprichnik
                      Oprichnik 12 December 2012 16: 44
                      -1
                      Quote: marshes
                      Quote: Oprichnik
                      What about the city of Panfilov?

                      What about Leningrad?


                      But we and Stalingrad were renamed Volgograd (it’s a pity that it wasn’t Tsaritsyn) ... But Panfilov, it seems, even the anti-Stalinists and perestroika could not incriminate. And in Kazakhstan, for what is the hero like that? What did not please? Is the surname not root?
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 12 December 2012 16: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Oprichnik
                        But we and Stalingrad were renamed Volgograd (it’s a pity that it wasn’t Tsaritsyn) ... But Panfilov, it seems, even the anti-Stalinists and perestroika could not incriminate. And in Kazakhstan, for what is the hero like that? What did not please? Is the surname not root?

                        Near me there is the village of Panfilovo, there is a park named after 28 heroes of Panfilovites, and the granddaughters of the legendary com.diva live in Almaty.
                        By the way, the composition of the monument is interesting, they face east, the canopy of the Cathedral is visible behind the teeth.
                      2. Oprichnik
                        Oprichnik 12 December 2012 17: 09
                        -2
                        Quote: marshes
                        Next to me is the village of Panfilovo, there is a park named after 28 heroes of Panfilov’s,


                        This is an argument like: "Enough with you and this ... And the whole city will be fat". So after all, in Moscow, there is Alma-Atinskaya street ... Why do you also need a metro station? Moreover, with such and such a scandal (the case has come to court and, apparently, it will not be limited to this: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/2614037/post251005312/) ...
                      3. Oprichnik
                        Oprichnik 12 December 2012 17: 34
                        -2
                        Quote: Oprichnik
                        Why do you also need a metro station?


                        By the way, I forgot to write: V.V. Zhirinovsky supports the idea of ​​renaming the Brateevo metro station into Alma-Atinskaya, since Alma-Ata is his hometown. Apparently, it was renamed in his honor ... tongue

                        I quote (http://www.zakon.kz/4480061-zhirinovskijj-ne-ponimaet-moskvichejj.html):

                        “Among those who spoke in favor was LDPR Leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He stated that he did not understand Muscovites who did not want to rename the Brateevo metro station to Alma-Ata.

                        “We have the Brateevskaya metro station under construction and they want to rename it Alma-Ata.” And some are against. I ask you to support the renaming. This is my hometown. And the inhabitants are resisting. Why don't they like my hometown? It was mainly created by the Russians. It was called "Faithful," said Vladimir Zhirinovsky. "
                      4. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 05
                        -1
                        Oprichnik, Vovchik Zhirinovsky, the emphasis in his speech was not on the fact that Almaty is his hometown, but on a completely different one:
                        “This is our story, but we do not know it. You don’t like the station Alma-Atinskaya, but you like the fact that the divisions formed in Alma-Ata defended Moscow? Why did the Muscovites not defend their city? ... They came from there and there, among other things, there was my own uncle, Pyotr Makarov, he went up to attack on orders and was struck by a bullet. they do not know to whom they owe their lives and the fact that this city stands, and is not burned down by German tanks "
                        That's what Zhirik said. Although he is a clown, but in this case he showed a rare adequacy. If you quote it, then quote the salt of the quote, and not the phrase taken out of context.
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 15: 49
                      -1
                      eprst, we don’t need the metro station, but the spirits of the dead wars. the name is not in honor of some distant abstract residents of Almaty, but in honor of the specific soldiers of the 316th Infantry Division, who were killed near the walls of Moscow.
                      about renaming in Kazakhstan - for example, the city of Leninogorsk was renamed into Ridder, in honor of the Russian German who stood at the origins of this Kazakhstani city. do not think that the KZ stupidly erases non-Kazakh toponyms. just return the historical names. For example, some of the residents of Pavlodar at one time advocated renaming their city Kerek (Russians instantly started hi-wai, they say, Kazakh nationalists are trying to erase non-Kazakh names, although Kerek is the Kazakh historical pronunciation of the surname "Koryakov" - the founder of Pavlodar. It is strange to blame Kazakhs in nationalism for trying to name the city by the name of the Russian founder). Usually, a tantrum on this topic is raised by someone who doesn’t know about the history of these areas in KZ.
                      In Astana, after the transfer of the capital, Kubrina Street (one of the city's fathers) appeared, a restaurant "Kubrinsky Garden" appeared, in Soviet times his name was banned, because he was considered a merchant, a class enemy. After 1991, the Kazakhs paid tribute to this Russian man, who at one time built the most beautiful buildings in the then Akmolinsk.
                2. EropMyxoMop
                  EropMyxoMop 12 December 2012 18: 29
                  +3
                  And for me, Stalingrad is much better.
                3. Oprichnik
                  Oprichnik 12 December 2012 18: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: EropMyxoMop
                  And for me, Stalingrad is much better.

                  Quote: EropMyxoMop
                  Renaming is not an argument ... Historical names were simply returned to the most ancient cities of Kazakhstan.


                  I would also vote for Stalingrad. :)
                  But you are contradicting yourself - standing up for the "historical names" of the cities of Kazakhstan and not recognizing the historical "Tsaritsyn". :)

                  However, the conversation is not about that. It's just that when politicians decide something, they NEVER AND IN ANYTHING reckon with the opinion of the people, whether it is the collapse of the USSR, the fate of Baikonur, renaming of cities and streets, etc., etc. There is nothing for our fraternal PEOPLES to share! And it’s time to launch our POLITICIANS — yours, ours — from Baikonur into space in one common rocket.
                4. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 09
                  -1
                  Ohhhh! And here I will support you with both hands! Our peoples have nothing to share. Turkic-Russian relations are so intertwined from linguistics and clothing to common victories that it is impossible to break them. The symbiosis of our peoples is natural historically, geographically, politically.
    4. EropMyxoMop
      EropMyxoMop 12 December 2012 18: 25
      +1
      Well, of course ... Renaming the city of Panfilov to Zharkent is nothing, it can
      Renaming is not an argument. The city of Dzhambul was also renamed to Taraz, although Dzhambul Zhabayev is one of the best Kazakh poets. It’s just that the most ancient cities of Kazakhstan were given their historical names, and no one renames Petropavlovsk because it is its historical name.
      1. old rocket man
        old rocket man 13 December 2012 00: 52
        -5
        Quote: EropMyxoMop
        Renaming is not an argument the city of Dzhambul was also renamed Taraz

        Another argument. But when I was at Baikonur, by the way, in reality, the city of Leninsk, there was such a bike: “the young head of the station complains to the military commandant that he cannot find a watchman for the move, has already raised his salary to 250 rubles, and promises housing, no one goes, even burst, the commandant says to him, you cut your salary, give 90 rubles and write that you need a head of the crossing. The next day, 15 statements at once "In general, in Central Asia, only the Turkmens are dumber than Kazakhs. laughing
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 13
          -1
          But somehow, in 1999, I drove through one withered village in the Kurgan region. Savages! However, it did not occur to me that all ethnic Russians are the same shabby drunks with pissed pants. Probably because only the Turkmen are dumber than me?
        2. Marekrozny
          Marekrozny 17 December 2012 19: 59
          0
          But if I write that crap like "Turkmens are dumber than Kazakhs" - will I be banned as a Nazi? Or can only a select few write pejoratively about other nations? And then I did not understand the rules of the game on the site. Here everything has already been said in relation to the Kazakhs, I am afraid to even quote these pearls, otherwise they will again be exposed as an evil Kazakh chauvinist ...
      2. Marekrozny
        Marekrozny 17 December 2012 20: 43
        0
        to the heap one can recall Kazakhstan's Leninogorsk, which was renamed Ridder in honor of the Russian German, thanks to whom this city appeared. And even Pavlodar somehow stubbornly wanted to rename the local Kazakhs to Kereka (in honor of the Russian founder of the city of Koryakov. Kereku is the historical Kazakh pronunciation of this family name). And in Astana, after the transfer of the capital, Kubrina Street appeared in honor of the Akmola merchant, who did a lot for the then Akmola.
        But for showers, such news is not interesting. They will see a catch and "betrayal" in everything. Offended people ... What to take from them?
    5. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 15: 37
      -1
      Panfilov in Kazakhstan is respected and proud that he formed the 316th Infantry Division in Alma-Ata. Zharkent is the historical Kazakh name of this city. The city of Dzhambul was renamed Taraz, and now it follows automatically the conclusion that the Kazakhs do not like their akyn? Rave. And even more strange to hear reproaches from the representative of the country in which thousands of settlements were renamed. In the Leningrad Region in the 40s, all historical Finnish names of villages were erased, and the city itself was not called as soon as Petersburg, and Petrograd, and Leningrad, and now again St. Petersburg. The Kazakhs do not insult the Russians for the fact that in Russia all old Tver, Samaras and Nizhny Novgorod were returned to their old names. This is your country, and you decide what this or that city will be called. And do not go to the Kazakhs with advice on how to call our own village in our country. You have no reason for this, either moral or legal.
      As for the metro in Moscow, it is strange to hear from the Muscovites a bunch of insults addressed to the Kazakhs and the city administration who want to pay tribute to the Kazakh divisions that defended Moscow in the most critical days of 1941. Let me remind you that at one point it turned out that ONLY two Kazakh divisions (314th from Aktyubinsk and 316th from Alma-Ata), together with Podolsk cadets, defended the capital. The men fell, but the enemy was not allowed. Then the fresh divisions that had already arrived from the Far East drove the Fritz from Belokamennaya. Do you really think that if you give the metro under construction a name in honor of these guys - is it too much and historical injustice? Ugh on you.
      ZY By the way, the Kazakhs really pay - the construction of the station is being carried out partly with Kazakh money ($ 8 million was allocated from the Kazakh budget). This is a gift from Kazakhstan to the Russian capital. It is not very nice to trivialize the gift with the phrases "something put into the hands of city bureaucrats."
  2. Very smart
    Very smart 12 December 2012 16: 50
    -1
    EropMyxoMop
    Roughly on the same occasion: when Estonia gained independence from the USSR, the question arose of evacuating the naval training ground No. 1 from Loksa. Estonia was very opposed to this - like they have sovereignty. And what a hell for them this landfill - they needed copper cables, very thick and in a very large number laid in the water area. They would have sold them and the whole country would have eaten up their grandmother for a long time. The volumes are exactly the same. Well, ours did not concede: a landing ship approached, the Marines cordoned off the coast, broke in the local police, calmly plunged and took everything away. And no one needed this place - without the Russian fleet everything decayed and died. And what the Estonians have achieved - shish with butter. Or they could bargain, lease the RF. But "greed breeds poverty!"
    Kazakhs, do not fry your chance and your money - shut your mouth to that freak who carries all heresy. Sami shut up. And think for yourself, with your own head - with whom it is better to live in peace and good neighborliness. Russia in any situation was, is and will remain a great power, and you are not a fact.
  • nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 12 December 2012 12: 58
    -4
    yes at least bursts of anger fellow
    1. YARY
      YARY 12 December 2012 18: 55
      +2
      STOP ALREADY !!!!!!!
      Stop it! Are you officials? This is not their soul but their soul! And you all behave like squabbling women!
      There renamed here renamed! Did you rename it?
      I know that my grandfather would have slashed a nameplate inevitably, if I dared to think about it!
      GUILTY OFFICIALS AND POLICIES!
      We can only behave with them as they deserve it!
      In my town they wanted to "quietly remove" two monuments, officials were warned that they would be BEATED! That was all over!
      1. Oprichnik
        Oprichnik 12 December 2012 19: 09
        +2
        Quote: Ardent
        GUILTY OFFICIALS AND POLICIES!
        We can only behave with them as they deserve it!
        In my town they wanted to "quietly remove" two monuments, officials were warned that they would be BEATED! That was all over!


        Here I am about the same (see above).
        It's time to introduce StopCream like in V. Golovachev's SMERSH-2 or Culling, like O.Divov's. Everything is written there very easily. It remains only to apply.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 12 December 2012 08: 36
    +3
    Kazakhstan has a unique chance together with Russia to become a space power. To my mind, to neglect this is a crime.
    1. sergskak
      sergskak 12 December 2012 14: 22
      +3
      Apollo, Space power of Kazakhstan? + laughing Is it a joke? Is it stupid !!! Like, the experts will go there? Yes, for hu ........... they turned Kazakhstan and stuff !!! There, of course, there are astronauts, but that was all. so what?
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 16
        0
        Are you an expert on hu ..... specialists? graduated or self-proclaimed?
  • Veter
    Veter 12 December 2012 08: 43
    +1
    Simply, the Kazakhs decided to fly into space at the expense of us. Oh well.....

    Kazcosmos

    Gazmyas, gazmyas, gazmyas
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 December 2012 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: Veter
      Simply, the Kazakhs decided to fly into space at the expense of us.

      But was it different?
    2. Focker
      Focker 12 December 2012 09: 58
      -1
      Quote: Veter
      Gazmyas, gazmyas, gazmyas

      Original and smart!
    3. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 12 December 2012 10: 19
      +1
      Veter
      Well, maybe they won’t fly by themselves, but rather they will earn money from launches of foreign devices, etc.
  • Forget
    Forget 12 December 2012 08: 44
    +3
    It would be better if Kazcosmos would learn to build rockets from Russia. The Chinese, North Koreans and others learned from the USSR how to make rockets, now satellites launch, planes do, and China is building its own space station in general. And Kazakhstan, having an alliance with Russia, could not take the opportunity to master missile technologies ... Ukraine offered Kazakhstan to also build missiles together, but no, they didn’t want to ....
    1. sergskak
      sergskak 12 December 2012 12: 51
      -2
      Forget, The hotel is painfully big.Kazakhstan, Ukraine, I seem to respect, but damn it, siege a bit of your passions !!! Especially if there are no merits in them! Only the territory !!! Someone wants to object? nas.Da, in general, it's time to APPOINT Odessa and the Crimea as our territory, otherwise the Romanians will screw everything up or the Turks! Ambition is too bad ..........
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 31
        0
        here are the bastards, what are these saloids and herds! look at these chunks unwashed! Sergskak, you know, laundered them, taught them to read and write, gave toilet paper, and these thankless cattle decided to fly into space? We will not allow it! Do not forgive! Tear off the Wishlist! We will enter the Kazakh Ukraine by the very throat at the very first attempt at the friendship of these unterman! And then the villains of the Romanian Turks will prosper our primordial lands! Atu them!
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 12 December 2012 13: 51
      -1
      Quote: Forget
      Ukraine also offered Kazakhstan to build rockets together, but no, they didn’t want to ....

      Could you give a link when they refused?
      1. Forget
        Forget 12 December 2012 14: 15
        -2
        I read somewhere, but now they seem to want to cooperate, but these are all words ...
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 12 December 2012 16: 00
          0
          Quote: Forget
          I read somewhere, but now they seem to want to cooperate, but these are all words ...

          From the very beginning, they did not refuse, but agreed on cooperation!
          if we suppose even now they seem to want to cooperate why did you write a lie ??
          1. Forget
            Forget 12 December 2012 16: 35
            -1
            everything is true and always does not go beyond words, therefore they don’t want to ...
      2. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 16: 53
        +1
        Quote: Yarbay
        Could you give a link when they refused?


        Ukraine didn’t refuse ... It’s just a small detail, Russia does not participate in this project ... the availability of Kazakhstan’s money in the absence of this detail from Ukraine and also Putin’s policy towards this state (carrots and sticks, gingerbread cookies ran out) ... Result - the project is only in the minds.
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 25
      0
      Kazakhstan is constantly hammering Roscosmos about the transfer of technology (not for free, essno). Current what for does Russia need it? They took a million dollar loot from the Kazakhs for a couple of projects that Russia could not bring to mind (kazsat-1, launching satellites from planes, "baiterek"). Russia does not want to share technology with Kazakhs, why should they share this gesheft with someone? Therefore, Kazakhs and Ukrainians decided to establish cooperation. By analogy with the military industry (Kazakhstan has offered joint production of military equipment many times, Russia snorted arrogantly. Now Kazakhstan is closely cooperating on this topic with Ukrainians, Jews, Turks, French, and Russia hysterics in the media with headlines "Kazakhs are traitors! Ukrainians are smart-ass! "," Two-faced Kazakhs dared to cooperate with Turkish military factories! ", Etc.).
  • volcano
    volcano 12 December 2012 08: 59
    0
    Maybe kazakhHchek mishandled? wink
  • Nickanor
    Nickanor 12 December 2012 09: 06
    +7
    Kazakhs needed a new source of scrap metal. In Sary Shagan it was all over :)
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 36
      0
      Everything ended in Sary-Shagan when Russian servicemen removed the door handles from the toilets and broke the windows before their relocation to the Russian Federation. Read the memoirs of Russian officers from all sorts of Daryalov-U, where all this is described with sadistic pleasure.
  • Yuri11076
    Yuri11076 12 December 2012 09: 16
    +2
    If Russia and Kazakhstan do not agree, then the Kazakhs themselves will pull apart unique launch complexes by bolts no more ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 37
      0
      But what about the mention of sheep grazing on the ruins of the complex? otherwise you got an incomplete thought.
  • askort154
    askort154 12 December 2012 09: 22
    +9
    When Kazakhstan seceded, Baikonur fell into disrepair, - "only the wind
    whistled in the wires. "If Russia had not rebuilt, there would have been ruins.
    The CIS countries continue to see Russia as a "cash cow." Regularly by
    queues of questions pop up: Sevastopol, Gabala, 201st division in Tajikistan, the base in Kyrgyzstan is now Kazakhs with Baikonur. Under the guise of
    business hiding politics with famous directors. The Kazakhs will not calm down until we launch the East. Baikonur is waiting for the fate of Gabala.
    1. in reserve
      in reserve 12 December 2012 14: 28
      0
      Yes, they are worse than other republics, Russia now began to allocate good money for modernization, so they decided to cut the dough under the guise. wink
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 16: 38
        0
        How much money has the Russian Federation allocated for the modernization of Baikonur?
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 17: 01
      -1
      1) Russia escaped from the Soviet Union before the Kazakhs declared their independence. Kazakhs and Kyrgyz were the last to leave the Soviet Union.
      2) Regarding the "wind whistling in the wires" in 1991-1993 in Baikonur: excuse me, remind you that in those years almost all cities in Russia were in a deep space anus? How long ago have the regions stopped freezing in Russia? Why don't you express yourself poetically about Russian cities in those years? That would be fair. Kazakhstan, by the way, put things in order in its cities much earlier than Russia (even in the field of crime, in the field of housing and communal services, in the field of support and development of urban infrastructure). So keep your fantasies about hypothetical ruins to yourself.
      3) About the "cash cow" - made laugh. Kazakhstanis have every right to dispose of their facilities and lease them. Don't want to be a cash cow using someone else's property? Don't pay, go home, then there will be no offense. Are you personally ready to rent your apartment to me personally for free? For some reason, Russia demands money from Kazakhstan for renting grain carriers and telescopes. The Kazakhs do not write that the Russians are obsolete, they rent their property for dollars ... No, in order to give the Kazakhs free of charge, for whom grain carriers are more important than these half-drunk Russians, who still can think of the maximum they can - hand over the cars for scrap. No, the opposite is true - Kazakhs do not demand freebies, they pay regularly and show off.
  • Bykov.
    Bykov. 12 December 2012 09: 39
    0
    To hell, the Kazakhs need a spaceport? In the scrap metal to steal it, what did you want, or are they thinking of others to rent it out, for rent?
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 12 December 2012 10: 04
      +1
      Quote: Bulls.
      To hell, the Kazakhs need a spaceport?


      How else to show off?
      1. Yuri11076
        Yuri11076 12 December 2012 10: 12
        +3
        Yes, that's just the point. Baikonur without specialist maintenance will decline very quickly. Kazakhs themselves will not be able to do anything there. Not an eastern bazaar to them there to open ....
  • Karabin
    Karabin 12 December 2012 09: 54
    +2
    I repeat, when in the capitals of the Empire a mess, on the outskirts, they begin to greyhose not childishly.
    1. EropMyxoMop
      EropMyxoMop 12 December 2012 10: 59
      -2
      I absolutely agree.
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic 12 December 2012 10: 30
    +8
    After the meeting between Putin and Nazarbayev, the task was set for the relevant structures about a phased departure from rental relations to spaceport sharing An intergovernmental commission was established on this issue. Relatively speaking, Kazakhstan wants to have own share in business from the use of the launch complex, and not just the rent, which is not
    Now Russia is spending about five billion rubles a year on Baikonur. Three and a half go to pay rent

    and only 115-120 million dollars. per year. Commercial launches bring good income and naturally Kazakhstan’s desire to claim a part of this income.
    Now the issue of is being discussed at subcommittee level on the Baikonur complex of the intergovernmental Russian-Kazakh commission on cooperation. If the city and part of the cosmodrome are removed from the jurisdiction of Russia Russians will leave the city - there will be no one to work on objects, This problem is now quite acute - engineering staff capable of working on space technology and supporting spaceport facilities, lacks.
    For the period of lease of the complex "Baikonur" the city is endowed with the status corresponding the city of federal significance of the Russian Federation, special mode of safe operation objects, enterprises and organizations, as well as the residence of citizens. Only Moscow and St. Petersburg have this status. However, the city does not have the status of a subject of the Russian Federation and is a city of republican significance of the Republic of Kazakhstan
    Currently, more than 70 thousand people live in Baikonur, of which 37% are citizens of Russia, about 60% are citizens of Kazakhstan. In addition, almost four thousand Russians are seconded to Baikonur on business trips to launch. From the federal budget of Russia, the budget of the city of Baikonur annually receives more than 1 billion rubles.
  • dojjdik
    dojjdik 12 December 2012 10: 55
    0
    you see the democratic newspaper "komersant" has become some kind of unshakable "authority" for journalists; an absurd article --- if Russia does not want to give up the cosmodrome, it will not give it up; so is the radar in gabala
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 12 December 2012 11: 07
      +8
      Hillary Diana, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs of the United States of America, Hyuu-Elsworthovna Rodham (Clinton as husband) openly announces her country's upcoming struggle against the reintegration of the post-Soviet space. We need to take her words as a warning, but as you know, who is warned is armed.
      So far, the United States has had only two types of weapons of mass destruction, regularly used to control a significant part of the world. elite bribe
      The second remedy is the organization of mass political unrest against those who for some reason are indeed an elite, and therefore takes care of the welfare of the country, the people, and their welfare too: after all, the leaders of any significant structures - from the plant to the state - can in the long run derive much more benefit from the normal operation of these structures than from selling them at a reasonable price . So, against those leaders who are aware of this simple truth and are not ready to sell their countries to Americans, riots are organized under spectacular freedom-loving slogans - accordingly, they are overthrown in one way or another
      So, obviously, they are waiting for us, on the one hand, regular doses of generous handouts those post-Soviet statesmen who are ready to accept these handouts, and on the other hand - massive accusations of all mortal and immortal sins of anyone who does not wish to accept these handouts.
      And what do we need to do in connection with all this? Just keep in mind that this pressure of lies is inevitable - and that the rule remains true to this day: "If the enemy praises you, then you are all wrong around!"


      Anatoly Wasserman. Completely here
      1. not good
        not good 12 December 2012 12: 23
        0
        This field is endless for the FSB, just work, just not like the KGB in the collapse of the USSR.
  • Alekseir162
    Alekseir162 12 December 2012 11: 08
    +3
    The greed of officials at all times was a harbinger of the death of any empire. I hope that our leadership will have enough wisdom, although what am I worthy of getting out of this situation. The desire of the Kazakhs is quite understandable to have such a fatty piece and rent it out to those who pay the most. The only trouble is that this someone may be the enemy of Russia.
    1. bart74
      bart74 12 December 2012 11: 55
      +3
      All the same, I am for a tough stance towards Kazakhstan and compliance with contractual obligations. Here you can’t give slack. Otherwise, the signature and seal of the Russian Federation under any international treaty will not cost anything!
  • toguns
    toguns 12 December 2012 11: 59
    +1
    wassat and why Kazakhs Baikonur ???
    Barons and sheep graze ???
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 17: 05
      -1
      Kazakhs will open a school there to teach you how to write in Russian.
  • gold
    gold 12 December 2012 12: 21
    +1
    it’s interesting how it turns out in the modern world, a handful of bays licked at a possible income - all at once all the people were generalized for this business, but in vain! the people did not see and do not see a penny, according to this, by and large, on the drum. the peoples of politics are littering, not the people themselves. 90% of politicians came to enrich themselves, but how and what is there is not so important! Here, practically any Russian can justify the need for Baikonur, there is no Kazakhstani, because in the near future there can be no independent Kazcosmos, at least there should be at least some purposeful program for the development of cosmonautics,
    be wiser, do not confuse the needs of a handful with the masses
    1. uhjpysq
      uhjpysq 12 December 2012 13: 49
      -3
      your buy-ins only sound your desires.
      ., take their good will cut. all dream of a golden horde.
      1. homeland
        homeland 12 December 2012 14: 28
        +1
        Quote: uhjpysq
        uhjpysq (1) Today, 13:49 ↑ new -1 
        your buy-ins only sound your desires.
        ., take their good will cut. all dream of a golden horde.


        what a nonsense
        1. Focker
          Focker 12 December 2012 15: 04
          +1
          these are fat trolling)
      2. gold
        gold 12 December 2012 18: 12
        +2
        Sorry, of course, but you are a rare dibiloid, Kazakhs are peace-loving people, believe me, (you certainly can’t do without Natsiks everywhere and always have been, but there are few of them and they are strange at your level) you increase your education about the horde (I’ll even tell you to you: look at Tatarstan friend wink )
        1. uhjpysq
          uhjpysq 12 December 2012 19: 40
          +1
          I believe those who left in 90. they are peaceful))
  • not good
    not good 12 December 2012 12: 25
    0
    It is necessary to quickly complete the launch site in the Far East, and if there is a misunderstanding, transfer the launches there and suspend the rent for Baikonur, until the situation becomes clear.
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 12: 52
      -5
      not good,
      The construction of the Vostochny space launch site was frozen this year, and what we managed to do, to put it mildly, is still far from the launch site.
      When transferring launches to the north, efficiency will suffer up to 20%.
      The latter, as such, does not even have a rent, it is essentially the equivalent of renting land under the complex.
      1. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 17: 09
        0
        Quote: Hunter
        When transferring launches to the north, efficiency will suffer up to 20%.


        If you consider the city of Free North. then Leninsk is at the equator
      2. Tersky
        Tersky 12 December 2012 23: 00
        +1
        Quote: Hunter
        The construction of the Vostochny spaceport is frozen this year,

        And where such terrible news comes from, it is not other than Bandera’s lands that blows with the wind .... We read carefully:MOSCOW, December 10. / BUSINESS-TASS /. FGC UES has completed design work on external power supply for the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome and its infrastructure facilities, which envisage the expansion of the existing 220 kV Ledyanaya substation in the Amur Region. This was said in a statement.
        The project is being implemented by the subsidiary company "Backbone Electric Networks" / MES /. The project should be completed in 2013.
        By the end of this year, the necessary equipment will be installed at the substation to provide electric power for the construction of the cosmodrome and its infrastructure, including a cosmonaut training center, a cosmodrome control center and communication centers. In the future, to ensure reliable external power supply to the airport and the two launch complexes of the cosmodrome, it is planned to connect the power receiving facilities of the SIC RCP to the 500 kV Amurskaya substation. Full completion is scheduled for 2015 year.
        The Vostochny cosmodrome is a new cosmodrome under construction in the Far East in the Amur region, near the village of Uglegorsk. The construction of the cosmodrome began in mid-2012, the first launch of the launch vehicle is planned at the end of 2015, the first launch of a manned spacecraft in 2018.
        It is not necessary to pretend wishful thinking, also in assessing the effectiveness, we look at the longitude and latitude of Baikonur and Vostochny, which is not visible 20% of the displacement of Vostochny to the north .... so I shoot hi before your non-competence ...
    2. plotnikov561956
      plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 17: 35
      0
      FSUE GUSS Dalspetsstroy attached to the Spetsstroy of Russia signed another contract for the construction of roads of the Vostochny Cosmodrome. Work has already begun on the construction of a bypass road. These works are carried out as part of the second stage of the first phase of the construction of the Vostochny spaceport.


      Currently, a pit is being developed for launch facilities at the launch site site. At the site of the technological complex, work is underway to clear the forest belt.
  • Nechai
    Nechai 12 December 2012 12: 44
    +2
    Quote: Forget
    .Ukraine proposed that Kazakhstan also jointly build missiles, so no, they didn’t want to....

    Or maybe they just really appreciated their production and technological potential? Most Germans, Jews left for permanent residence in other countries. Russian (not Kazakhs, meaning) survive little by little. And what about a little minor leadership positions what to say ...
    Quote: toguns
    and why should the Kazakhs Baikonur ??? Baronov and sheep graze ???

    Not only graze, but also run from the starting tables. You still forgot the camel, by the way.
    There was such a joke: The Russian geologist with a camel in the steppes was exhausted. And finally he saw an old man grazing a herd. Well, he complained to him. That in response - you see overpass over there, back your camel on it. Started up. Grandfather, coming up, to-to-how-he’ll hit the animal on the genetics. Only the retreating camel croup near the horizon ... Geologist - how am I going to catch it? The answer is to the flyover!
    1. Forget
      Forget 12 December 2012 14: 16
      -1
      Nechai,
      just no desire to develop the industry .....
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 17: 07
      -1
      Good night, to the flyover!
  • Hunter
    Hunter 12 December 2012 12: 46
    -3
    Kazakhstan pursues a policy based on its national interests. And then, in fact, their cosmodrome, and they are imposing foreign policy on them.
    Kazakhstan plans to enter the space services market as an independent player, but they do not have launch vehicles. The launch vehicle will be Ukrainian - Zenit, which is exactly what they are talking about the first stage of development of Baikonur - the return of the southern wing of the spaceport.
    The Ukrainian space agency is vitally interested in the development and growth of the Ukrainian space industry, in cooperation with the Kazakhs. A number of relevant agreements have already been signed with Kazakhstan.
    - Good luck to the joint Kazakh-Ukrainian cooperation! drinks
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 17: 26
      -1
      In Russia, many Internet users are sure that Kazakhs allegedly refused to cooperate with Ukraine in the field of space. Fig knows why they think so. Probably like wishful thinking. "Abydna" to them that Astana and Kiev can talk normally with each other, but Moscow somehow has not learned to be friends with anyone. And any friendship between the former republics of the USSR in the eyes of many Russian inhabitants looks like "betrayal" and "arrogance".
      But at least in Russia they gradually begin to understand that friendship / cooperation and submissive slavery are slightly different things. This year, Russia finally came to its senses and invited the Kazakhs to do joint tank modernization. For so many years, Kazakhs fought against the Russian arrogance of officials of the Ministry of Defense, and here they are! Miracle! The Russians wanted to create a joint venture in the defense industry! Although the chest opens simply - after the Kazakh-Ukrainian launch of projects on armored vehicles (modernization of the armored plant in Semipalatinsk, production of the BTR-4), the Russians finally came to their senses. Moreover, given that the Turks, Israelis and even Italians invited the Kazakhs to do armored vehicles.
      You look, Roscosmos will start talking to Astana without arrogance, when it comes to them that even without Russia, the Kazakhs can engage in various space projects.
      In the meantime, the situation is unequivocal: that Russian commentators, that Roscosmos inspire themselves and the Kazakhs with the idea of ​​Stepnyak’s mental retardation and imposingly grunts, they say, you’ll be lost, miserables, without our infinite wisdom, we supposedly did you a favor that notice you out of the corner of your eye. Graze your sheep and rejoice under the dombra, naive children of nature ...
  • Hunter
    Hunter 12 December 2012 13: 40
    -3
    Replacing the Angara launch vehicle with the Ukrainian Zenit in the Baiterek launch complex project will reduce its cost several times. This was announced on December 10, 2012 by the head of the National Space Agency of Kazakhstan (Kazkosmos) Talgat Musabayev.

    "In pursuance of the agreements reached by the heads of state and the instructions of the prime ministers of Kazakhstan and Russia, the space agencies of the two countries are working to transfer the Baiterek space rocket complex from the Angara carrier rocket to the Zenith. The cost of the project based on Zenit is estimated by experts at several times cheaper than on the basis of "Angara", "he said. According to Musabayev, the cost of the Baiterek project has grown by more than 7 times from the initial one and has reached almost $ 1 billion 700 million.

    Musabaev said at a press conference last Wednesday that Kazakhstan is negotiating with Russia to replace the Angara launch vehicle with the Ukrainian Zenit in the project to create the Baiterek launch complex. According to him, the project providing for the creation of a launch pad for the Angara has been suspended. Among the reasons for this decision - the rise in the cost of the program and the disagreement of the Russian side to co-finance.

    The Baiterek program is the largest international space project in the post-Soviet space, ITAR-TASS reports. The agreement on this complex was signed by the presidents of the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan in 2004. The document determined the basic principles and conditions for cooperation in the creation and joint use of the new environmentally friendly Baiterek rocket and space complex based on the ground-based infrastructure of the Baikonur cosmodrome for the implementation of commercial space projects, as well as for implementation of the national space programs of the two countries. In order to create the complex, a joint venture has been formed, which is owned by two parties in equal shares.

    However, at the end of January, the Kazakh side expressed concern about the prospect of the construction and subsequent use of the Baiterek rocket and space complex at Baikonur and asked Russia to decide on this issue. According to Musabayev, the main circumstance that worries the Kazakh side is that Russia is currently considering a decision to use the Angara launch vehicle at the Vostochny cosmodrome. With this perspective, in the opinion of the head of Kazkosmos, the ground-based complex at Baikonur for Angara "will not be of interest to the Russian side," which means that "further implementation of the Baiterek project is not advisable." Musabayev informed that his department had sent a request to Roscosmos on this matter.

    In addition, the head of Kazkosmos expressed dissatisfaction that "the price of the project has grown from $ 223 million to $ 1 billion 640 million, that is, more than seven times."

    In turn, the Russian side stated that it was not abandoning Baiterek, but was not satisfied with the slowness of the Kazakh partners in deciding on financing the project.
    1. DmitriRazumov
      DmitriRazumov 14 December 2012 16: 10
      -1
      As far as I know, the Zenith project is not a heavy launch vehicle. It cannot be compared with any existing promising project being implemented in the Russian Federation. Dnepropetrovsk designers are trying to somehow find a use for the technologies that remained after the USSR due to the withdrawal of light commercial objects (it must be said that until recently the teams in Dnepropetrovsk held on due to conversion orders from the Russian Federation). However, this requires a full cycle, which Ukraine has never had and will never have. And in addition, significant amounts of funding are needed to modernize and maintain in a working condition the launch complexes themselves, ground tracking and control complexes, etc. I don’t think that Kazakhstan together with Ukraine is capable of this ... The Ukrainians, having bravoly privatized several NIPs (Crimea, Dunaevtsy), also successfully destroyed them. Therefore, the so-called. Space forces and the capabilities of Ukraine are a bluff ...
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 December 2012 17: 31
      -1
      Quote: Hunter
      In addition, the head of Kazkosmos expressed dissatisfaction that "the price of the project has grown from $ 223 million to $ 1 billion 640 million, that is, more than seven times."

      You see, Russians think that they can change the agreements in their favor, but the Kazakhs are obliged to strictly adhere to the Baikonur agreements. One gate play. If Kazakhstan lifted rent for Baikonur 7 times, then half of the users would die of indignation.
      And it is strange that the Russians complain about the "evil" Kazakhs, who are being given $ 115 million (and in fact, this amount does not go to Kazakhstan at all), resentfully calling itself a "cash cow" Moscow does not want space projects. And they don't want to know about the jambs of Roskosmos. This spoils the popular picture for them "Taking tribute by a wild Horde from a poor humiliated Rusich".
  • marshes
    marshes 12 December 2012 13: 43
    +2
    Gentlemen, don't you think that Russia itself wants to leave the cosmodrome? But it's "beautiful."
    And it starts with the transfer of the city to the balance of Kazakhstan and the resettlement of Russian citizens in Klin, here is the link: http: //www.zakonia.ru/blog/v-klinu-strojat-zhiljo-dlja-pereselentsev-s-ba
    jkonura
    The head of the Klinsky district, Alexander Postrigan, checked the progress of the development of the Maidanovo Park. This is a new microdistrict of Klin, which is being built by the developer TechnoStroyOlimp. They are building seven nine-storey residential buildings with a total area of ​​over 20 thousand square meters. meters.

    Half of them will be occupied by immigrants from Baikonur, the second half is being built for other participants in another federal program - the resettlement of citizens from emergency housing.
    Here is the date: 19.11.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX
    Leave a couple of "starts" and move everything else to the Far East, to go to Baikonur on a watch. Rent and maintenance costs will decrease, the released amounts will go to the construction of the East.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 12 December 2012 13: 53
      0
      Quote: marshes

      Doesn’t it seem to you that Russia itself wants to leave the cosmodrome?

      Quite possible!
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 12 December 2012 14: 03
        -3
        Yarbay,
        How would you comment on the statement of the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense - "That the Gabala radar station can become a tourist site"?
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 12 December 2012 15: 55
          +1
          Quote: Hunter
          How would you comment on the statement of the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense - "That the Gabala radar station can become a tourist site"?
          And what kind of question do you have regarding Baikonur?
          It depends on the decision of the political leadership of the country, and not on the MO!
          Gabala region resort area, it is quite possible !!
    2. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 13: 53
      -4
      Quote: marshes
      Gentlemen, don't you think that Russia itself wants to leave the cosmodrome? But it's "beautiful."

      Now they’ll probably be throwing haters again. I am writing without emotions, just stating the facts.
      But the impression was coming together that the Russian Federation just wanted to leave not beautifully. Finish Baikonur to the last, while paying only the rent of land, and leave the Kazakhs with a broken trough, suitable just for scrap. And this topic is not new, it is not one year old.
      So the position of Kazakhstan is sane and rational, they need to develop and strive not to be a raw materials appendage of the world.
      1. marshes
        marshes 12 December 2012 14: 03
        +1
        Quote: Hunter
        So the position of Kazakhstan is sane and rational, they need to develop and strive not to be a raw materials appendage of the world.

        We may launch Zeniths with Ukraine, and launch French and Italian satellites as a payload, and by the way, the plant is being built near Astana.http: //www.np.kz/index.php? Newsid = 12048
        1. Hunter
          Hunter 12 December 2012 14: 10
          -3
          marshes,
          You have two directions - friendship with Ukraine for the development of your aspirations. The second possible in the future is the cooperation of Kazakhstan-Ukraine-Russia to launch a heavy rocket Energy. Apparently, after the return of the Zenith site, under the second option - there will be a second stage of the return of Baikonur.
          1. marshes
            marshes 12 December 2012 14: 26
            +1
            Quote: Hunter
            You have two directions - friendship with Ukraine for the development of your aspirations. The second possible in the future is the cooperation of Kazakhstan-Ukraine-Russia to launch a heavy rocket Energy

            The Russian side proposed the construction of the Sodruzhestvo carrier rocket jointly with Ukraine, but this is still in the air and also offers Soyuz-2, this is already interesting.
            By the way, your Ministry of Defense was not long ago in Kazakhstan, according to rumors, he offered the plant to them Malyshev, we have already taken the Lvov tank repair plant to our place, as well as some sort of Sapsan OTRK or something.
            1. Hunter
              Hunter 12 December 2012 15: 16
              -1
              Quote: marshes
              By the way, your Ministry of Defense was not long ago in Kazakhstan, according to rumors, he offered the plant to them Malyshev, we have already taken the Lvov tank repair plant to our place, as well as some sort of Sapsan OTRK or something.

              Lvovsky yes, we don’t need him - we are selling in Samy some of the old for modernization a number of Kazakh armored vehicles with us along with our modernization programs. Malysheva will get you under the BTR-4 program - assembly.
              OTRK Sapsan, yes - you are our first export customer of this missile tactical complex. You do not take Iskander.
              1. marshes
                marshes 12 December 2012 15: 27
                +1
                Quote: Hunter
                You do not take Iskander.

                It is unlikely that they will sell it in the near future, some of them are now rearming themselves, and so there is "Tochka", and Israeli missiles.
                1. Hunter
                  Hunter 12 December 2012 17: 56
                  -2
                  Quote: marshes
                  some who are now rearming

                  Some who have not yet mass-produced it. But another component is important for you - the OTRK is the so-called deterrence weapon, and if you were to be sold it, you would not only have to give Baikonur for political reasons. And this is difficult for you, because you want to have your own space exploration program, such a high-tech science-intensive industry and a market niche. Moreover, you have the principle of diversification of arms suppliers. So you can’t do it without our OTRK.
                  - Here they are, our programs:
        2. mar.tira
          mar.tira 12 December 2012 15: 34
          +5
          + I read your discussion with Hunter, and I wonder how you come from. Where are you guys from? I served in Leninsk during my service in Soviet times (do you probably know where it is?) I didn’t see much Kazakhs there! Where are your capacities for the production of rocket technology, where do you get them from? Raw materials, fuel, components, engines, stuffing, MCCs, tracking satellite constellations, launch sites, assembly and launch specialists. Maintenance infrastructure, assembly transportation, and spaceport security.? THIS IS ONLY IN RUSSIA! But it’s time for you to break the habit of what Gorbachev and Yeltsin did. gave everything for nothing and for free, to everyone and everywhere! You yourself must invite Russia to restore the former power in your republics, and even pay. As the Americans do, by the way, all over the world
          1. Hunter
            Hunter 12 December 2012 18: 00
            -4
            Quote: mar.tira
            THIS IS ONLY IN RUSSIA!

            An interesting statement, no one is opposed if this happens to the Russians, too.
            Quote: mar.tira
            You yourself must invite Russia

            The dubious statement that we owe someone.
            Quote: mar.tira
            Yes, and pay

            Further more.
            Quote: mar.tira
            As Americans do by the way, all over the world

            Yes, Americans pay us to participate in the Antares program.
          2. Yarbay
            Yarbay 12 December 2012 19: 05
            -1
            Quote: mar.tira
            , and even pay.

            So they are willing to pay, the current valuable lease at Baikonur))))))))))))
          3. olegyurjewitch
            olegyurjewitch 12 December 2012 21: 23
            +1
            Quote: mar.tira
            You yourself must invite Russia to restore the former power in your republics, and even pay.

            Dates what, shall we pay !? In their opinion it turns out that they should never,
            Quote: mar.tira
            The dubious statement that we owe someone.
            (Hunter), and since they don’t have to, then we should. It’s time to get used to it, all those who were in the USSR sooner or later, as magicians create debts from the air.
          4. DmitriRazumov
            DmitriRazumov 14 December 2012 21: 48
            -1
            I agree, I myself served 15 years in the VKS and I can imagine what it is. And the irresponsible statements of comrades who have privatized and destroyed parts of the huge system that remained on "their" territory for more than 20 years do not look serious.
      2. Suvorov000
        Suvorov000 12 December 2012 15: 20
        +2
        Actually, once everyone left everything in working order, Baikonur didn’t work for a long time after that, let’s build on the development, whoever is against it, but only at his own expense, and not waving his neck on someone else’s neck
      3. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 17: 06
        0
        Finish Baikonur to the last,

        You offer to upgrade Gabbala and Baikonur before leaving
  • Nechai
    Nechai 12 December 2012 14: 31
    +2
    Quote: Hunter
    PH will be Ukrainian - Zenit

    Of course Ukrainian, who can argue. But at least the combustion chambers of RD-171M LPRE (1st stage of Zenit launch vehicle) and RD-120 LPRE (2nd stage of Zenit launch vehicle) of Metellist-Samara OJSC, these are so insignificant component parts, without which you can easily get around. Who is Russia for the nationalists from the former "fraternal" republics today? So the supplier-picker, no more.
    Tazha song itself, as with the T-64 and its engines. Urainsky tank, who would argue. Only without 80% and 50% of components, respectively, from the RSFSR and other republics, it was impossible to assemble it. And without MT-16 IHP3 motor oil, developed by both Azerbaijani and Russian scientists, produced EXCLUSIVELY at the Novokuybyshevsky oil refinery, this super tank would not have worked for an hour at all. Say that now you yourself are doing almost everything. So REPEAT DO NOT CREATE. The development of the aforementioned ugrokhono oil was 10 years of work of specialized research institutes of the Union. Well, only two Ukrainian refineries could repeat only after spending 3 years. Only one thing really went into the series. And the costs of the second refinery were written off. Well, who benefits? Let me ask...
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 14: 57
      -5
      Quote: Nechai
      о

      Well, excellent, and the Russian Federation will fall - everyone is good!
    2. sergskak
      sergskak 12 December 2012 15: 03
      +5
      So you basically said everything! There is almost nothing to add. I am a supporter of the fact that there is such a country as Ukraine. In fact, NO! And all the territories are our RUSSIANS and no one else! There is no country of "UKRAINE" There is simply Odessa, Feodosia, Sevastopol and other cities of the Russian territory. City of glory! And the fact that when the hunchback gave it or Yeltsin, it does not count !!! For example, I did not give anything to anyone and will fight for their lands as fathers and grandfathers fought !! Who wants to argue?
      1. Hunter
        Hunter 12 December 2012 15: 21
        -7
        sergskak,
        It is interesting to read a representative of another dimension with a balalaika, but here on the planet Earth - the State of Ukraine and we are its citizens and nation - Ukrainians.
        1. in reserve
          in reserve 12 December 2012 16: 01
          0
          Hunter
          It is interesting to read a representative of another dimension with a balalaika, but here on the planet Earth - the State of Ukraine and we are its citizens and nation - Ukrainians.


          Where did the RUSSIAN land come from?
          “Behold the Tales of the temporary (past) years, where did the Russian Land come from, who started in Kiev first before the prince, and where did the Russian Land come from ...”
  • Nechai
    Nechai 12 December 2012 15: 17
    +3
    Quote: Hunter
    Well, excellent, and the Russian Federation will fall - everyone is good!

    Will get over ?! Actually what I said above ... Evenen, suckers vzherly vmerli ...
    During the revamping of the launch vehicle, the Yuzhmashevites faced the fact that they DO NOT HAVE the experience and knowledge of working with cryogenic fuel components. But they only needed to modify the sensors, pipelines, booster pumps, etc. That which actually constitutes the LV corps. But to cryogenic engines (created on the theme of the "Energia" launch vehicle), they did not even approach this. If you do not succeed in communing technologies in Russia ("eat it, he will eat it, but who will give it to him!"), Can you imagine WHAT appropriations, research projects, mathematical base for them, time will be needed ... So sho varaint "first yours , let us quiet every one of his "does not dance. And by the way, according to amerskim estimates, the Russians in the tanks of the Energia launch vehicle were able to achieve the state of hydrogen called "METAL". Our people laugh, but no, they say, there is only "sludge" hydrogen. Are you also ready to repeat this yourself?
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 15: 24
      -4
      Nechai,
      Ukraine has a full production cycle of space rockets. On Zenit LV due to traditional historical cooperation and huge costs worldwide for such developments, Russian suppliers are natural and rational. Otherwise, you need to do everything from scratch, including the launch site with the launch complex.
  • Nechai
    Nechai 12 December 2012 15: 32
    +1
    Quote: Hunter
    Ukraine has a full production cycle of space rockets

    On what fuel components, may I ask? You cannot enter the world market with high-boiling launches. Well, perhaps at dumping prices. Russia is participating in Sea Launch as one of the equal parties to the project. Not as a picking supplier. Well, why does Roscosmos need a successful competitive tandem Kazakhstan-Ukraine?
    Progandan cliches are not truth, Friends ...
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 18: 09
      -4
      Quote: Nechai
      Is Roscosmos a successful competitive tandem of Kazakhstan-Ukraine?

      Nobody argues with this, only Kazakhstan and Ukraine want to develop the form of mutually beneficial friendly strategic partnership in just this way.
      As there is Ukraine-Vega, Ukraine-Antares, Ukraine-Brazil in the case of Alcantara-Cyclone4 (5). In the same way, there is a form of cooperation between Ukraine and the Russian Federation on all Russian missiles - Cyclone, Union, and Dnieper.
      You somehow don’t react as partners, you are also a participant in the Zenit rocket engine program, it’s also beneficial for you in the modern globalized world, especially space. Space is expensive, Europe and the USA also go for cooperation, because cheaper and so beneficial to everyone.
      - Join now! drinks
  • zemlyak
    zemlyak 12 December 2012 16: 01
    +2
    In Astana, they decided to change their partner, instead of Russia - Ukraine or Europe. Maybe they will pay more or become full partners. Well, let's wait and see, everything is learned in comparison. Personally, my opinion is that nothing will work out, everything will be bent safely, unraveled, will be taken away and sold for scrap. For twenty years of independence, not a single project has been brought to mind. There will be no Zenits and Energies. Everything is for sale. This is our reality. Although I repeat, this is my opinion.
    1. Hunter
      Hunter 12 December 2012 18: 13
      -4
      Europe does not need you, of which I am absolutely certain. Not because you are, or not, Europe has its own programs and equatorial cosmodromes. And it is much more effective.
      Quote: zemlyak
      everything will be safely bent

      If you do not begin to develop the topic, then it will be so unequivocal. You have already been written here in various accents about the East.
    2. arik_990
      arik_990 13 December 2012 08: 46
      0
      cooperate with Russia we will always remember my word))))
  • Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 12 December 2012 16: 17
    0
    Kazakhstan until Nazarbayev’s power will not give Russia.

    The key word is bye! Yes, it is a pity. So many years (even centuries) have lived together, 20 years after having fled with difficulty we tolerate each other. Clinton's words come true 100%.
    Nevertheless, Nazarbayev will leave, I think Russia will have a second Gabala.
    1. plotnikov561956
      plotnikov561956 12 December 2012 17: 23
      0
      Quote: Shkodnik65
      Nevertheless, Nazarbayev will leave, I think Russia will have a second Gabala.

      Armavir began to build in advance. left Gabbala. building East ....
      There are things known only to intelligence ...
  • htpm100
    htpm100 12 December 2012 17: 03
    +4
    this whole situation with the Baikonur, the Gabala radar, the sevastopol, etc., once again confirms the words of Alexander III "In the whole world we have only two loyal allies - our army and navy"
  • arthur_hammer
    arthur_hammer 12 December 2012 22: 50
    +1
    it is necessary to strike up friendships with the same republics as the former republics, otherwise they begin to greet)))
    1. arik_990
      arik_990 13 December 2012 08: 45
      +1
      in terms of??? what do you mean by that? that we don’t want to give you a biker?
  • Kir
    Kir 13 December 2012 02: 16
    -1
    Yes, to whom, to whom, and claims should be brought against the dead EBN and its clique, for the sake of their political ambitions, they fooled, and of course the local-union republics, the so-called elites, not be remembered by night, if Russia takes all its debts themselves, and they’re not enough of this, they also came out with cut territories, and yet We must pay them rent for their own !!! And you look who is most yapping against Our Fatherland, who grabbed most of all, in the same Baltic states the historical misunderstandings of Latvia and Estonia, in the same Riga, Germans accounted for 70% of the councils, and the eastern part was inhabited by Russians !!! About the city of gardens in Almaty, there’s nothing to say at all. He grew up on the basis of the village of Vernaya founded by Siberian Cossacks, then the city of Verny, and then what now, by the way, is an interesting fact to the question of my great-grandmother who turned to the Kazakh, he answered the Kyrgyz !!!, here go and understand who they are !!!
    And it’s not Baikanur’s matter at all, it’s just that there is something beneficial in the bowels, and the situation is advantageous in terms of control over Russia, China and Iran, if we really do that, it’s necessary to limit transit cargo transportation and limit the span over your territories as from them so to them !!! But it was necessary to blow up earlier, and most likely it is not worth it to collapse if ours all go there to the last!
  • Comrade1945
    Comrade1945 13 December 2012 08: 16
    -2
    Well, this already, guys, doesn’t climb into any gates, by golly
    1. Kir
      Kir 13 December 2012 15: 14
      0
      Comrade1945, I apologize. The question is completely off topic, but judging by the flag, will you be from Poland? if I’m right, could you tell who the Jadwigs are, it’s supposed that there should be relatives of the Prussians and Lithuanians, and what is the matter with them now, thanks in advance.
      1. Comrade1945
        Comrade1945 14 December 2012 01: 28
        0
        Hmm ... well, how do you say ... according to topwar.ru hero city Moscow located somewhere near Warsaw.
        I apologize generously, but I, unfortunately, will not be able to give an answer, because I am not completely aware, especially given my ambiguous attitude towards Poland as a whole.
        Good luck fellow
  • Tatar-in
    Tatar-in 13 December 2012 08: 39
    +1
    Oh how correctly noticed
  • arik_990
    arik_990 13 December 2012 08: 43
    +1
    so why say so? Kazakhstan makes money on this so that other countries would launch rockets, and these countries have a small budget to build stations. Americans Russian Chinese Europeans let everything from Baikonur. we need him to earn money on it, and we can only launch rockets ourselves; we know how poorly tokhtar aubakirov and musabaev flew these same very first cosmonauts of KAZAKHSTAN.
  • romb
    romb 13 December 2012 18: 50
    +1
    I will try to explain how it was (more or less) in fact!
    Since the mid-90s, various agreements have been concluded on aerospace topics, as well as governing administrative issues between the two countries. In addition, the idea of ​​the need to develop the Kazakhstan space program was voiced and supported to a large extent by the Russian side. Russia, not only has voiced its proposal, it also agreed to "rent" a number of its technical personnel - specialists in the preparation of the Baiterek launch complex.
    The real reason for such "goodwill" on the part of Russia was quite reasonable concern about the deepening of cooperation between Kazakhstan and individual interested countries - Ukraine, Sweden, Israel and France, which have serious developments in certain topics. Thus, Ukrainian delegations increasingly began to visit the territory of the republic and ask their Kazakh colleagues about the prospects for joint implementation of various projects. In turn, Kazakhstan did everything in its power for a very long time not to allow third countries to get in any way into the fiefdom of Russia - Baikonur.
    Time passed, and in Kazakhstan, they began to realize that in reality, the Russian side initially had no desire to let the Kazakhs into space, and all its true intentions were aimed at pedaling the process of creating the Baiterek launch complex in every possible way.
    So you have to remind you in various ways of how bad it is to eat your partners, especially since they sincerely trusted you!
  • Rossmk
    Rossmk 13 December 2012 23: 24
    +1
    Come on, we are not deciding the political future of the countries here. The bottom line is that politicians and businessmen can say anything, but people should remain people. Russians and Kazakhs have rather warm relations, which, on the contrary, need to be strengthened. And yet we are allies. You might think that there is no disagreement in NATO itself. They are, it’s just that propaganda works well for them and only what is not infringed on the monolithic form of their bloc is brought into the world.
  • amph1cyon
    amph1cyon 16 December 2012 16: 02
    +3
    Oh, and for a long time I did not care for syuds. I read the news. As usual, the hysteria of some ministers against the backdrop of winter, and so nothing special. I read the comments and was horrified. People what are you thinking? From your words, you can decide that in Kazakhstan they still live in yurts, ride horses, do not drive cars in cities, but sheep graze, and Kazakhs are generally stupid Kabits, who have never had a homeland, and who are generally Kyrgyz, but why then they became Kazakhs. I will say so. I am Kazakh myself. But I have many friends of Russians, Koreans, Uzbeks, Germans, and even 2 there are. And we do not swear, do not fight, do not infringe each other and do not oppress. And those who talk about how poorly they live for other nationalities in Kazakhstan, they lie, brazenly and cruelly lie. I myself have lived in Taraz for 18 years, this is the South. As you know, in the South there is little Russian speech, but it’s okay, this is not a barrier to international communication. There is no hassle on national grounds. Here, the Korean is also called the Russian brother, and even if he is Chinese, we will call him brother. And Russia is our elder brother. And no matter what contradictions we have, no matter how we swear, in which case, we will help each other. The war of 1812, the First World War, the Great Patriotic War, how much we went through, and I think, against the background of such small skirmishes like Baikonur, one should not swear.
    Nobody is going to drag the heritage of the Soviet era. I will not take the scale of the whole country. I will take only a few regions. In Taraz, the Meat Processing Plant both worked and works, as it produced delicious sausage, and so it produces it. Posh how it worked, and it works. Balkhashtsvetmet both worked and continues to work. I will not list further, because it is already clear.
    Up there, someone spoke about Kazakhstan and its territory. So, the Kazakh Khanate extended over a vast territory and was divided among 3 zhuzs. It stretched from the Ural mountains in the north to the Tien Shan in the south. From the Caspian Sea in the west to the Dzhung alatau in the east. Learn geography, you are so educated.


    And the phrase killed
    Quote: sergskak
    in reserve, That's what the conversation is about. What can they do without US? Only sweep the tracks in Moscow? psHARDLY TRUTH? BUT NOT REQUIRED!
    Sorry Dear, but someone who, and we definitely don’t sweep tracks for you there. And I’ll add on my own, so that you don’t sweep tracks there, you need to shit less. Is it hard really?

    In the end, perhaps I’ll add that this kind of news is beginning to sow enmity between our fraternal peoples. Do not succumb to provocations of this kind. Such provocations that can just spoil relations between nations.
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 23
    -1
    Excerpts from an interview with COSMOS.KZ CEO Nurlan Aselkan:
    - What is the reason that the question again so unexpectedly surfaced on Baikonur?
    - He did not come up unexpectedly. He smoldered for a very long time, and it is simply amazing that this did not happen before. The fact is that the key problem of the cosmodrome is its preservation, modernization and further development. Because its fixed assets, built almost during the Soviet era, have their own operating lives. And by about 2018-2020 they will be fully developed. Therefore, it has long been thought about how to find a way and methods to attract the resources of countries that work at the cosmodrome, and above all Kazakhstan, as the owner of the cosmodrome, and the Russian Federation, as the tenant, in order to find a mutually beneficial opportunity to invest, update funds and give the cosmodrome the opportunity to develop in the future.
    And the second point. The fact is that rockets that remain from the Soviet legacy, or rather its military segment, are rockets that operate on toxic fuel. It follows from this another task that is long overdue and even overripe is the need to replace them with more environmentally friendly products.
    Recently, events have taken place that have raised very serious questions and have raised some doubts about the possibility of maintaining, modernizing the spaceport and changing the generation of carriers. Unfortunately, for a number of reasons, Kazakhstan and Russia until today have not been able to reach mutually acceptable agreements on Baikonur. AND The Russian Federation made a political decision to build its own spaceport at the same latitude (51,6 degrees) in the Far East, in the Amur Region. From this it is clear that the interests and priorities of the Russian Federation will objectively be aimed at creating from scratch a new cosmodrome, in which it will take a long time and a lot to invest. But at the same time, it will meet the most modern requirements, and, accordingly, Baikonur cannot count on Russia's active involvement in the update process.
    The next moment, which is even more annoying. The new generation of launch vehicles, which are being developed and should replace toxic ones, are planned to be deployed at the Vostochny cosmodrome. As for Baikonur, there is no particular activity in terms of preparing launch complexes, creating new facilities and updating the entire line of carriers. Thus, an extremely intolerant situation developed. The spaceport worked and wore out, its updating and modernization were mostly cosmetic in nature. In fact, the intensity of launches on it has increased significantly, even ahead of the Soviet period, and at the same time, all those "dirty" heptyl missiles, the release of which were put on stream, were launched, we will say fired back. And, in principle, the corresponding launcher is executed.
    As for new products, it turns out that from the very beginning they will be oriented to another spaceport. Naturally, this situation could not suit the Kazakh side. Various negotiations were held on this subject. For the replacement of media was in due time, in 2004, declared "Baiterek". But due to the fact that the Russian Federation delayed the creation of the rocket itself, it has not yet made a single test launch. And in connection with the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome, the question arose: what is Baiterek? How is it necessary to build a relationship scheme so that the cosmodrome is preserved and we have environmentally friendly rockets?
    In this regard, an end was actually put on the Baiterek project. The basic basis of this project - the Angara launch vehicle - has been created with great difficulties for the second decade already. Therefore, Kazakhstan decided to abandon it. Otherwise, the continuation of this story will already give off a frank farce.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 26
      -1
      There is another launch vehicle left over from Soviet times, but at the same time quite modern - the Zenit launch vehicle, which is being built in cooperation between the Russian Federation and Ukraine. These rockets are launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome and from a sea launch. Now it has been decided to find a way to create a new cooperation on the basis of "Bayterek", keeping the name of the project, but at the same time changing the carrier to "Zenith".
      That is why this situation has now become public. However, in fact, the reason is that her decision simply dragged on. And in principle, today's exacerbation was quite expected.

      - Explain one simple thing. There is an agreement on the lease of the Baikonur cosmodrome, which constitutes a single complex with the city of the same name, for a period until 2050. Does the statement of the head of Kazkosmos mean that Kazakhstan intends to seek revision of the terms of the previous agreement?
      - I think yes. We can definitely say that the lease currently creates a lot of obstacles to the development of the cosmodrome and socio-economic development of the city. The lease of the spaceport complex was the right decision for that period. But there is another point. Now there is a proposal to withdraw a number of spaceport facilities from the lease. Incidentally, I’m sure that the problem of rejecting these innovations is connected with poor explanatory work.
      Our partners from the Russian Federation will benefit from the adaptation of the lease to the requirements of today. Nobody encroaches on sites and facilities that Russia is interested in exploiting in the future. These are the Proton and Soyuz launch and technical complexes. They will continue to operate in a sustainable manner. And, perhaps, even outside the framework of the lease, a mechanism will be found for protecting property and protecting investments in a civilized manner. As, for example, other investors do when they build enterprises in Kazakhstan. At the same time, the Russian Federation has always been strongly interested in taking off the costs of protecting and preserving those sites that have not been used for a long time. At one time, we transferred the entire former Soviet cosmodrome as a whole complex, of which a maximum of one third is used. And the question of these unused sites (the maintenance of which costs a tidy sum) needs to be addressed. Either they are taken by Kazakhstan, or they must be disposed of, or disassembled, or used in some other way. In a word, it is required not to aggravate the relationship between the tenant and the landlord with unused sites, given as it were to the load.
      This is especially true of the city of Baikonur. At one time, he was transferred to the Russian Federation due to the fact that we had practically no means to support him. In addition, the settlement actually served only sites, because it was a closed city and rocketeers lived in it. Now about half of the population of Baikonur are citizens of Kazakhstan. Of course, from the point of view of protecting their rights and eliminating conflicts related to social support, it is necessary that the territorial body itself, the actual settlement should be in the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan. It is necessary to spell out very clearly and accurately the whole range of political, economic and social rights for rocket testers - citizens of the Russian Federation and other states who will live and work in the territory of the Kazakh city of Baikonur.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 27
        0
        The desire of Kazakhstan to withdraw now from the lease agreement and use them is, I would say, an opportunity, hope and simply the absolute right of Kazakhstan, without encroaching on the facilities that Russia uses, to take responsibility for the maintenance, use and further development of individual complexes ... This is primarily about the right flank of the cosmodrome - the Zenit complex. This is currently an inactively used complex. Launches are carried out from it, but extremely rarely - once or twice a year. If the situation develops according to the scenario proposed by the leadership of Roscosmos, the Russian Federation will always be able to carry out its launch program to the extent that it is being carried out today. At the same time, in the cooperation of Kazakhstan, Russia and Ukraine (despite the fact that Kazakhstan will give the lion's share of the funds), each participant will have the opportunity to contribute to the development of the cosmodrome. I emphasize, by no means complicating, but, on the contrary, more clearly defining the interests of the main tenant at the cosmodrome - the Russian Federation.

        - Tell me frankly, Kazakhstan is able to independently operate the Baikonur cosmodrome and at the same time guarantee personnel, technical and financial support?
        - I think that according to the scheme that has been worked out for today, there is nothing fantastic in this. What is offered specifically? To create a joint venture on the basis of the launch and technical complex of the Zenit launch vehicle, which will include Kazakhstan (primarily with its own finances), Ukraine as the developer of the rocket and ensuring its operation, and Russia, which supplies the main part of the rocket - the first stage engine. It should be understood correctly: we are not talking about the fact that Kazakhstani specialists will come and independently take all aspects of work on the launch vehicle. No, it will be a joint commercial team focused on the result, for which each participant will bear his share of responsibility.
        As for Kazakhstan, I would say so. This is one of the first, and maybe even the first attempt to become on a par with the technologically developed states in the sphere that is organically inherent in our country due to the presence of a spaceport here. Yes, we did not have production facilities and design bureaus, yes, we had isolated specialists. But this is now being done by the very DPRK, which today entered the large space club, launching its own satellite on its own rocket. This is done by other countries not of the very first ten. Therefore, God himself told us to do this. Since no one has canceled such issues as objective information, their own satellite constellation and, finally, defense capability.
        Some say: you can buy a satellite and use it calmly. Yes it is possible. But at the same time, we have a city, there is a cosmodrome actively used by the Russian Federation, which sees a benefit even in the fact that this cosmodrome is located in the territory of another country. For us, to miss such an opportunity is to voluntarily sign the inability to carry out large and serious projects.
        I think this is a very good challenge in every sense of the time, and I am sure that Kazakhstan will not shy from accepting it. As for the question whether our country can do this, the answer is unequivocal: of course it can. Any number of examples. Such a carrier creates Brazil in cooperation with Ukraine. Some efforts in this direction are being undertaken by Indonesia, Algeria, and South Korea. That is, many countries are engaged in this. And in the West, satellites generally create universities and separate departments. Like this...
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 28
          -1
          - The Kommersant newspaper published a commentary by an anonymous Russian expert close to the Russian-Kazakh intergovernmental commission, who in fact disavows the statement of the head of Kazkosmos. Apparently, such a quick and somewhat nervous reaction in the Russian media, albeit indirectly, is a reflection of the Kremlin's official position. From your point of view, what is the likely scenario for further developments?
          - I believe that the situation is so overripe that it will undoubtedly develop in approximately the direction outlined by the leadership of Kazkosmos. Talgat Musabaev announced only the main results of the recent negotiations. He did not give anything new or, shall we say, "gag".
          Another question is that very many Roscosmos officials and a number of Russian government officials would like us to watch their heptyl rockets fly from behind a fence and in fact be fenced off from modern technologies. As a miserable handout, we were offered to invest in some sort of experimental satellite, and in fact we would not be participants in real space programs. At the same time, grandiose construction is being launched in the Far East, where the attention and interests of all, including material interests, are riveted.
          Incidentally, I think that in the Russian Federation (and in Baikonur as well) there are many supporters of the scenario that Musabaev outlined in brief. Because this is not a fantasy of "Kazkosmos", but a product of developments of joint groups of Kazakhstan, Russia and Ukraine. I can safely say that there are absolute supporters of this development scenario among large Russian companies. And at the Baikonur cosmodrome he will be supported by the absolute majority of specialists working there. Because its implementation means a second life of the cosmodrome, and not a slow extinction in anticipation of the completion of the construction of the "Vostochny".
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 17: 29
            -1
            Not quite competent discussion in the press and nervous reaction from the outside are connected with a very simple thing: the essence of Kazkosmos's proposals has not been simply explained. I am sure that in the implementation of the plan announced by Musabayev, Russia will only benefit. Let me explain why.
            First, the the implementation of this plan will allow Russia to get rid of the huge ballast of unused facilities in Baikonur, because of which it incurs tremendous losses.
            SecondlyIf the city of Baikonur is in good condition and goes under the jurisdiction of Kazakhstan, then this will also facilitate the work of space enterprises in Russia. No one is going to squeeze them out of there. On the contrary, their presence there will be legitimized on a more solid basis, and it is possible to switch from rent, say, to options for protecting investments and registering properties in property. It is very good, very pragmatic, it is for a long time. This concerns the interests of Russia.
            For us, this is an opportunity not to be outside observers, but to actually take responsibility for some objects of the cosmodrome, invest money there, invite teams of specialists from outside, form our own national cadres, and attract testers from the Baikonur cosmodrome. The latter is mandatory. Moreover, there is an excess of specialists who are not involved in Russian programs, but are used in some kind of auxiliary operations. At one time, as a joke, there was even a proposal to introduce the category "citizen of Baikonur". Because the multinational environment of highly qualified specialists is a unique achievement of Kazakhstan, Russia and, in general, all post-Soviet countries. And this potential cannot be lost. It must be used. These are our allies, we must take care of them and include them in all promising programs.
            Such an approach is not a single subjective opinion or naked fantasy. This is the quintessence of many years of joint efforts of specialists from Kazakhstan, Russia and Ukraine, as well as people working directly at the Baikonur Cosmodrome ...
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 16 December 2012 19: 59
    -1
    Concerning the chairman of Kazkosmos Talgat Musabayev (so that there is no opinion about him as a supporter of "grazing sheep"):
    Talgat Musabaev - Russian cosmonaut, lieutenant general of aviation. Now - the head of the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan.

    He is the 79th cosmonaut of the USSR / Russia, the 309th cosmonaut of the world.
    Doctor of Technical Sciences (2008): on the basis of his dissertation “Assessment of the reliability and efficiency of the Crew - PKA - MCC system” (2000) he defended at the Moscow Aviation Institute a doctoral dissertation on the theme “Development of an integrated methodology for improving the reliability of space-launched missiles in flight”.
    USSR Master of Sports in Aerobatics and Gymnastics, champion of the USSR (1983 and 1984) in airplane sports in the team event.

    Since October 22, 1991 - test cosmonaut of the 1st group.
    Since July 9, 1999 - group commander, test cosmonaut.
    Repeatedly included in the backup crews of Soyuz TM ships.
    Total duration of stay in space - 341 days 9 hours 48 minutes 41 seconds.

    In August 2003, he was appointed chief of combat training at the Russian Army (Helicopter) Aviation Administration.
    In November 2003, he was appointed deputy chief of the Zhukovsky Air Force Academy.
    On May 30, 2005 he was appointed General Director of Baiterek Joint Venture JSC (a space rocket complex based on the Angara launch vehicle).
    In 2007 received the citizenship of Kazakhstan.
    March 27, 2007 headed the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
    Co-Chair of the Sub-Commission for the Baikonur Complex of the Intergovernmental Commission for Cooperation between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan (NB)

    Awards and titles
    - Hero of the Russian Federation (November 24, 1994) - for active participation in the preparation and successful implementation of a long international space flight at the Mir orbital research complex, with courage and heroism
    - People's Hero of Kazakhstan (1995)
    - Order "For Merit to the Fatherland", II degree (September 28, 2001) - for courage and heroism shown during the implementation of the international space flight [6]
    - Order “For Merit to the Fatherland”, III degree (December 25, 1998) - for the courage and dedication shown during a space flight at the Mir orbital research complex [7]
    - Order of Otan (1998)
    - Order “Kazakhstan Republicsynys Tysh President — Elbasy Nursultan Nazarbayev” (2011)
    - Order "Barys" I degree (2002)
    - Medal "For Merits in Space Exploration" (April 12, 2011) - for his great contribution to the development of international cooperation in the field of manned space exploration
    - Medal "Astana" (1999)
    - Order of Friendship of Peoples (October 10, 1991) - for active participation in the preparation for space flight at the Mir orbital research complex, a great contribution to strengthening mutual understanding, friendship and trust between the peoples of the Soviet Union and the Austrian Republic
    - Pilot-Cosmonaut of the Russian Federation (1994)
    - Pilot-cosmonaut of Kazakhstan (1995)
    - Order of Merit for the Republic of Austria (Austria, 1991)
    - Officer of the Order of the Legion of Honor (France, October 2010) - for his merits in space exploration and, in particular, the implementation of the French large space program during the second, 208-day space flight in 1998.
    - Medal "For Space Flight" (NASA, 1998)

    But anonymous Russian "experts" can hardly boast of such a track record. But they called him a man who was allegedly not responsible for the "Baikonur" question and was accused of imaginary incompetence. Who are the judges?
  • Marekrozny
    Marekrozny 17 December 2012 18: 51
    0
    Cool, all my posts were rubbed, including the biography of Musabayev, but all the Nazi posts about "stupid Kazakhs", "grazing sheep" and "spinning Kazakhstan on the reproductive organ" were ignored.
    What an amazing selectivity!
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 19 December 2012 11: 20
    +2
    Foreign Ministry of Kazakhstan: Russian media distorted Musabaev’s words about Baikonur’s lease

    The leaders of Kazakhstan and Russia, Nursultan Nazarbayev and Vladimir Putin, are determined to preserve and develop the Baikonur cosmodrome as a symbol of successful cooperation between the two countries, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the republic Yerlan Idrisov told Interfax-Kazakhstan.

    "On December 19, during a visit to Moscow to participate in meetings of the CSTO, EurAsEC and the EEC at the highest level, a bilateral meeting of the presidents of Kazakhstan and Russia will be held, which will discuss, among other things, partnership in space projects. I can assure you in this regard that the leaders of our countries have a full understanding of the importance of preserving Baikonur as a symbol of our successful bilateral cooperation, "Idrisov said.

    Commenting on the recent statement of the head of Kazkosmos Talgat Musabayev that Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation are considering the possibility of withdrawing some of the facilities of the Baikonur complex from Russian lease, The Foreign Minister noted that Musabayev's words "were distorted by many media outlets." "All comments to these messages boiled down to the fact that Kazakhstan is allegedly curtailing space cooperation with Russia. This is an absolute wrong message," he stressed.

    According to the minister, the head of Kazkosmos "meant that Kazakhstan expects to expand its participation in the space activities of the Baikonur cosmodrome, and to develop its own space potential in a qualitative manner." "But not to the detriment of relations with Russia, but together with it!" - he said in this connection. “It would be naive and unreasonable on our part to miss the opportunity of close cooperation with such a powerful space power as Russia, moreover, at our own cosmodrome. Therefore, we want to make full use of the existing potential to meet the needs of our economy. We expect to make our cooperation more effective and productive for both sides, "Idrisov said.

    http://tengrinews.kz/kazakhstan_news/mid-rk-smi-iskazili-slova-musabaeva-ob-aren

    de-baykonura-225361 /
    1. alien308
      alien308 28 February 2021 14: 43
      0
      "Therefore, we want to make full use of the existing potential to meet the needs of our economy. We expect to make our cooperation more effective and productive for both parties."
      These are words. Such words are often followed by very different deeds. Such a prospect is indicated by the pressure exerted by Kazakhstan in the information field. Changing agreements will increase political risks. Therefore, any changes must be considered carefully, thoroughly and accordingly continuously. The change was presented to a radical change in the principles on which the agreements are based. Why do you need it all of a sudden? Kazakhstan, on the other hand, assessed the consequences of agreements during negotiations and their adoption. Naturally, such agreements are a compromise. I don't like the compromise, but it is acceptable to both sides. That is why any changes must be discussed and accepted very carefully, and not declare a rejection of the basic principles.
      1. alien308
        alien308 28 February 2021 15: 04
        0
        Didn't look at the date, where did it come from?