Yevgeny Prigozhin announced the refusal of Wagner PMC to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense

PMC "Wagner" will not sign any contracts with the Ministry of Defense, the company will remain in its status and continue to carry out combat missions. This was stated by the curator of the "Orchestra" Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Prigozhin commented on the order signed the day before by Shoigu, which gives all volunteers the right to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense until July 1 of this year to give volunteer detachments a legal status. According to him, Wagner PMC will not sign any contracts with the military department, since it is a separate combat unit with vast experience in combat operations. In general, Prigozhin will not go under Shoigu.

At the same time, the curator of the "Orchestra" emphasized that the "Wagner" is still ready to carry out combat missions at the front. In the NMD zone, the "musicians" will continue to coordinate their actions with General Surovikin, since he is "an intelligent, competent and experienced commander" who sets realistic tasks.

Those orders and decrees that Shoigu forms, they apply to employees of the Ministry of Defense and to military personnel. PMC "Wagner" will not sign any contracts with Shoigu

- declared Prigogine.

According to him, the units of the Ministry of Defense are not able to effectively carry out their tasks precisely because of the commanders who do not have the necessary knowledge. And the management of the company is not going to subordinate PMC "Wagner" to the generals from the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, even under the threat of deprivation of ammunition.

As for subordination, of course, Wagner PMC is absolutely completely subordinate to the interests of the Russian Federation and the Supreme Commander

Prigogine added.

Comments

[Borik]

stressed that "Wagner" is still ready to carry out combat missions at the front.

This means that problems with the supply of ammunition will begin again.

[pawn]

And who will set these tasks for them if they ignore the Ministry of Defense - Putin personally ?, through Surovikin? Maybe then they will not continue to participate in the NWO at all?

[former soldier]

And who will set these tasks for them if they ignore the Ministry of Defense - Putin personally ?, through Surovikin? Maybe then they will not continue to participate in the NWO at all?

Everything is fine. command vertical. PMC carries out the commands of Surovikin as deputy commander of the grouping of troops in Ukraine. Surovikin and guarantees ammunition.

[nickname7]

Tasks to set which PMCs will perform according to their own understanding is one thing, but they don’t want someone to interfere in management.
PMCs are effective because they threw out unnecessary things like shagsticks and the ability to make square snowdrifts, they don’t even have titles, but there are positions that they occupy according to skill, not length of service.
If the cardboard marshal Shoigu, who does not have a military education and did not serve in the army, commands PMCs, then he will ruin them uselessly.

[saigon]

So the army general by the name of Shoigu still graduated from the military department at the Polytechnic Institute of the city of Krasnoyarsk (I don’t know what this gave him), so formally the army general has a military education.
So how do I command the character does not climb.

[flicker]

Maybe then they will not continue to participate in the NWO at all?

Most likely this is the case.
Although the owners of Prigozhin will tell him about the pumpkin: he squandered that kind of money, did not raise a rebellion, did not kindle an interethnic conflict.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: flicker

Prigozhin's masters will slander him for a pumpkin: he squandered that kind of money, did not raise a rebellion, did not ignite an interethnic conflict.

And who exactly are the owners? Names, positions? Have you seen the video where the servicemen of the Russian Federation, who have now occupied Bakhmut after the Wagners, turned to the Wagners for help, so that they would help with advice on how to act and with some kind of weapons, without which it is difficult to fight? To me, this speaks volumes about everything. At the beginning of the war, the RF Armed Forces lost a large number of specialists in the Kiev direction, Gastomel alone was worth something. Therefore, experienced personnel are needed more than ever. Chechen "generals" are not far from Shoigu in the knowledge of military affairs.

[flicker]

And who exactly are the owners? Names, positions?

"Maybe you also have a key to the apartment where the money is?"

As for "specifically", then you don't know the names of the Wagner commanders, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist, does it?
In the comments below. It's about the SYSTEM.
And look for yourself there.

You saw the video where the Russian servicemen, who now occupied Bakhmut after the Wagners, turned to the Wagners for help

I saw an endless number of videos of Wagner's "founder, leader, curator" (he is also a cook, he is also a brilliant military strategist) Prigozhin turned to the Russian Ministry of Defense for help: either shells, or cover his flanks, etc.
The cook generally likes to address anyone, including Biden, Zelensky, etc.
So what?

Chechen "generals" are not far from Shoigu in the knowledge of military affairs.

Chechen generals, as well as ordinary soldiers, do not whine.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: flicker

As for "specifically", then you don't know the names of the Wagner commanders, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist, does it?

Why don't we know? We know many, not only by call sign. Unlike the mythical owners of Prigogine, they are known. The fact that Prigozhn can be supported inside the country by both oligarchs, security officials, and functionaries of the apparatus, in my opinion, is obvious, as without it.

Quote: flicker

I saw an endless number of videos of Wagner's "founder, leader, curator" (he is also a cook, he is also a brilliant military strategist) Prigozhin turned to the Russian Ministry of Defense for help: either shells, or cover his flanks, etc.

So giving the Wagners shells, weapons and supplies is the direct responsibility of the Moscow Region, if it is at all interested in the course of the war. They should do the same now with respect to the military, who adopted Bakhmut from the Wagners, but apparently they are doing it badly, since they have to turn to the Wagners.

Quote: flicker

The cook generally likes to address anyone, including Biden, Zelensky, etc.

Well, yes, that is, that is. In my opinion, a big bada boom is planned between the Wagners and someone else, maybe the Kadyrovites, maybe the National Guard.

Quote: flicker

Chechen generals, as well as ordinary soldiers, do not whine.

Chechen "generals" don't whine, because why should they whine? They don't fight. It is not very difficult to drive mobs from the regions of Russia to the front.

[The fog]

Maybe they won’t, in Africa there are also many cases of PMCs - this is a business, in our country outside the law, outside the constitution, so they simply won’t.

[Archon]

So they don't have to. For this, there are hired contract troops. And taking into account the injuries of the PMC participants, they will not even be hired for a contract for health reasons, despite their experience. The PMC itself appeared, as far as I understand, due to the reluctance of reputational losses in Syria and Africa. The type of mercenaries is not a pity, and the death of the soldiers of the Russian army will be too loud, stars and awards can be affected.

[km-21]

Quote: Borik

This means that problems with the supply of ammunition will begin again.

Did these problems really exist?
Or do we still leave some chance that
that it was an information disguise?

[The collective farm is voluntary.]

Yeah, yeah ... Some bald uncle was allowed:
- use your private security company to conduct hostilities,
- gave these Chopovites automatic weapons of various calibers,
- cannon artillery,
- MLRS,
- tanks,
- jet aircraft,
- allowed to recruit prisoners from MLS.
And they allowed a dofiga of what, which we, mere mortals, do not know.
Further - given his level of ties after the African and Syrian campaign - do we seriously believe that two generals from the DoD can block the release of shells?
Are you seriously???
IMHO: these generals would already be flying on nuclei, like the book Munchausen.

[swzero]

They forgot to add combat aircraft to the list.
For me, Wagner is quite the prototype of a normal modern army. I would give volunteers to Wagner, not MO. He is closer to them in spirit.

[Egeny]

Roma, it’s said that the vertical through Surovikin leads to GDP,
and here you can’t argue and it’s fraught with consequences

[Archon]

This is essentially the expeditionary army of the empire. If it could be pushed officially under such a sauce with separate control from the supreme, then maybe what would have happened.

[V. Salama]

Quote: km-21

Did these problems really exist?

Prigozhin himself spoke openly about these problems, and no one refuted his words, no one even tried. However, if these are questions of faith (you can simply not believe Prigogine), then of course - questions of faith are not discussed.

Or do we still leave some chance that
that it was an information disguise?

And what could be informationally disguised here in principle? The same Prigogine openly formulated the reasons for this state of affairs. There are many reasons, while there was something like bargaining, even the idea of ​​which Prigogine always rejected (so the question here is not price, but principle, and I personally understand it), and this article reveals ways in which the Moscow Region would like to solve their problems specifically with PMC "Wagner".

[km-21]

Quote: V. Salama

Prigozhin himself spoke openly about these problems, and no one refuted his words, no one even tried.

You are probably from the category of such experts who need to chew everything and put it into the brain ready-made. In this case, do not worry about an impossible (for you) task, but simply wait five or ten years. And then, for sure, all the necessary evidence and refutation will appear in the public domain for you to fully understand the current situation.

[V. Salama]

Quote: km-21

You are probably from the category of such experts who need to chew everything and put it into the brain ready-made. In this case, do not worry about an impossible (for you) task, but simply wait five or ten years.

I didn't understand about this "case". Let's say I'm one of those experts. It means you can’t chew it, but you suggest me not to bathe and wait another five or ten years. "And then, for sure, they will appear in the public domain ...." Who are you to feed me breakfast here? People like you have already pissed off a great country once, that's understandable to me. And the brain must first grow on its own in order to talk about the "today's situation." They are not even able to formulate what kind of danger you saw from me here. Truly they say - your stupid is worse than the enemy.

[km-21]

Really hysterical. I was just trying to chew and put directly into your brain the simple truth that in war you should not trust any public statements, even if no one tries to refute them. This is because truthful public statements make it easier for your opponent (I hope this is not too hard a thought for you to understand). That is why a normal expert should treat with distrust any public statements of military people. Especially to those that can affect the course of hostilities. But it was Prigozhin’s public cries about the shortage of shells and the conflict between Wagner and Shoigu that led to the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not run away from Artemovsk six months ago, but remained to defend it to the last Ukrainian. Which led to their huge losses in this small piece of war.

Are you wondering what are you talking about?
Or will you continue to be stupid?

[Ray]

In your opinion, such a large and selfish Shoigu gave Prigozhin the freedom to vilify and insult himself for the sake of misinforming the enemy? Some sadomasochism.
Prigozhin, in an interview with Dolgov, popularly explained Shoigu's inefficiency and unprofessionalism almost on his fingers, openly called his son rear-wheel drive. And he continued (let me remind you, this view was already after the capture of Bakhmut) to say that Wagner's shell hunger was artificial. What honor should Shoigu have if, for the sake of some imaginary misinformation, he is ready that he will be vilified and accused of inefficiency throughout the country, and his son-in-law will be called gay?

[saigon]

Excuse me, dear person, to call Shoigu’s son a rear-drive edge, how difficult it is, since the minister has DAUGHTERS, oops, well, in principle, what details are the most important to speak out. It was about the son-in-law, and you forgive me, it turns out that you are publishing false data. sorry again oops

[V. Salama]

Not only are you just a liar:

Quote: km-21

I was just trying to chew and put directly into your brain the simple truth that in war you should not trust any public statements, even if no one tries to refute them.

You did not try to chew any "truth" for me there, and even more so to put this chewing gum into my brain, there is nothing to invest. At the same time, you yourself are so stupid that you didn’t even notice that you confessed to complicity in a crime:

Quote: km-21

This is because truthful public statements make things easier for your adversary (I hope this is not too hard a thought for you to understand).

So the public statements were still true. I did not say anything about the content of these public statements, I confirmed their existence (wow - revealed the secret), and you already hysterical, "I hope this is not too complicated a thought for you to understand."

Quote: km-21

That is why a normal expert should treat with distrust any public statements of military people.

Normal experts know that the first casualty of a war is always the truth, but it's not for you to teach me. You are trying to hide the truth here because of your personal interest in this or because of your stupid understanding of the current situation.

Quote: km-21

But it was Prigozhin’s public cries about the shortage of shells and the conflict between Wagner and Shoigu that led to the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not run away from Artemovsk six months ago, but remained to defend it to the last Ukrainian.

You lie again. Who blew this into your ears, or are you a Heuchler (German)? This is in their mentality - he came up with it himself and believed in it himself. Have you heard anything about Surovikin's Plan "Bakhmut meat grinder" and its goals, no? And it was successfully implemented, especially since there was no need to force the Armed Forces of Ukraine - they themselves did what was needed and you confirmed this - they fought for Artyomovsk to the last Ukrainian. And those whom you are trying to protect are to blame for our losses, and of course you yourself. Goebbels, for example, probably never personally killed anyone in his life. He even killed his six children at the hands of his wife. But if he had not committed suicide, he would have been hanged. "You know what it's about"?
You should tear off your nose so that you don’t stick it where it doesn’t belong. Where should the mind not shove. At one time, I also despised any PMC, because from my school years they taught that the militia will always kick the asses of mercenaries if it is well armed and trained and the Fatherland must protect the people, young and old. I was very upset that Wagner began to take prisoners into his ranks, it seemed to me that this would discredit the status of the Defender of the Fatherland. But very soon I realized that there are people there and, damn it, it’s not Wagner’s fault that there was simply no other place left for real patriots. A normal person cannot adapt to the conditions of social garbage. And Prigogine here is just a voice crying out in a time of danger to the country and it is about this very danger and nothing more. I dealt with this problem not only according to Prigozhin’s statements, but also took into account the opinions of the commanders of the Wagner PMC units:
- Paladin;
- Sorcerer;
- Iceman;
- Wild;
- Zombies;
- Pioneer;
- Wagner;
- Kramnets;
- Shadow;
- Ratibor;
- Salem, there are three Heroes of Russia on this list, Salem, the bottommost, including the one who lost two legs and an arm during the assault on Artyomovsk (Bakhmut) in a duel - one man against three tanks.
Are you suggesting that I don't trust them? I myself gave 28 years to the Army and I understand everything they are talking about. But I didn’t want to discuss these problems at VO. Where is VO and where are these problems? Not the format, to put it mildly. And it’s not particularly interesting to discuss the obvious, who needs to understand and find what needs to be found. But for you for.s.r.an.tsa, I can make an exception: - poke your finger (figuratively speaking, especially for you, so that there are no stupid excuses) in any call sign and I will verbatim give the opinion of the one you specify. Try to refute then. Well, we'll try "Or will you continue to be stupid?"

[flicker]

And Prigogine here is just a voice crying out in a time of danger for the country

Even so "in the hour of danger"?
That is why he was going to merge from the Bakhmut front "in a time of danger"?
If anything, to merge with Bakhmut on May 10 meant to COLLAPSE THE FRONT before the expected counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
What could be obtained thanks to the "voice crying" in the "time of danger for the country"?
The collapse of the front + the successful counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are wonderful conditions to raise a wave of indignation in the Internet and the media, and then completely stir up unrest in the country. And this is "in a time of danger."
---
By the way, were the Wagner commanders also ready to merge from the Bakhmut front, or was it only Prigozhin's initiative?
If anything, he always treated the Wagner fighters with great respect, since they are really warriors, especially to those who stormed.

[V. Salama]

Quote: flicker

Even so "in the hour of danger"?

You, apparently, did not understand the essence of the problem that I am talking about, perhaps some pathos of my statements prevents you from thinking. I didn't think it could hurt anyone like that. It was just a desire on my part to be brief.

Quote: flicker

That is why he was going to merge from the Bakhmut front "in a time of danger"?

But this pathos of yours cannot but hurt, since this is slander, it is not clear what it is based on - on personal hostility or on a misunderstanding of the situation. I tend to think that both the first and the second take place. Let me remind you that before handing over their positions to the Defense Ministry, the Wagner PMC took Bakhmut and, according to the plans of the "schemers", we will conditionally call these dark forces, this PMC was supposed to die in this Bakhmut and die in full force. Of the 31 items for the requested ammunition, 15 items were satisfied by 10% of the need, while it was known that the ammunition consumption rates were increased by 5-7 times by the MO from the existing ones. At the same time, an order was received that leaving positions (in the PMC "Wagner under the terms of the contract for leaving positions ... they themselves should know if in the subject) will be regarded as treason. The laws of war are inexorable: "the sweat of an artilleryman preserves the blood of an infantryman." about a hundred corpses received ammunition per day. Well, here Prigozhin was indignant, he understood what they were leading to and what he had every right to. Otherwise, he himself is a criminal. For the blood of a soldier to whom you "treat with great respect... especially those who stormed" the perpetrators must be severely punished. And you're trying to become an accomplice in this crime.

Quote: flicker

If anything, to merge with Bakhmut on May 10 meant to COLLAPSE THE FRONT before the expected counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

You know, writing such crap, based at least on a lack of awareness of the situation, if not on malicious intent, there is not even a desire to comment.

Quote: flicker

What could be obtained thanks to the "voice crying" in the "time of danger for the country"?
The collapse of the front + the successful counteroffensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are wonderful conditions to raise a wave of indignation in the Internet and the media, and then completely stir up unrest in the country. And this is "in a time of danger."

It seems that I am talking with the TsIPSOshnik here. What could get ... unrest in the country. And what, did they get what they could? I came up with it myself, offended myself? This is excusable - this is an element of female logic, as it were. But he came up with it himself and believed in it himself - these are already signs of a hostile mentality, you yourself know which one, if in the subject. Prigogine, if they knew, did everything possible to prevent this from happening, but I'm not going to lecture here.

Quote: flicker

By the way, were the Wagner commanders also ready to merge from the Bakhmut front, or was it only Prigozhin's initiative?

Still, it’s more logical for me to assume that I am talking with a fighter of the invisible front of Ukraine, you contradict yourself too much and demonstrate a lack of understanding of obvious things, as well as an unwillingness to understand the situation.

Quote: flicker

If anything, he always treated the Wagner fighters with great respect, since they are really warriors, especially those who stormed.

Excuse me, there are reasons for you not to believe this.
---
And by the way, whose Crimea?

[_RUSSIAN_BEAR_]

Just yesterday I talked with the military operating in the NVO. Which were under Bakhmut. There was indeed a problem with providing the Wagners. Prigozhin did not lie about this problem. I will say one thing, we will win in the end. With or without Wagner. The question is losses and timing.
And after the victory, the prosecutor's office would do well to figure out why this or that phenomenon occurred. With accountability.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: V. Salama

Prigozhin himself spoke openly about these problems, and no one refuted his words, no one even tried. However, if these are questions of faith (you can simply not believe Prigogine), then of course - questions of faith are not discussed.

The problem at the front since the fall of 2022 was the impossibility of using the Air Force for its intended purpose, and therefore it was necessary to use artillery with wild intensity, many times exceeding the standards, in some positions the ammunition consumption was more than 3000 shells per day, Prigogine showed the document. But there is one more thing, many former Wagnerites who fled from Prigozhin said that Prigozhin did not unload all the shells for their intended purpose, that is, he saved up somewhere and more than once hinted in conversations that they would soon be useful to us elsewhere. By the way, this was voiced by at least two different former employees. Perhaps for BV and Africa, if the Ministry of Defense stops supporting this direction, or maybe not at all ..

[ivan2022]

And on what basis should Wagner be supplied with ammunition, did anyone here think?

PMCs are not included in the RF Armed Forces at all. If the PMC is the personal guard of the Supreme, let the Supreme supply ammunition to his people.

This is PR at the kindergarten level. But for the Russian layman, any crap will do. It's just a pity that people become victims of a rogue and his patron.

[private person]

If the PMC is the personal guard of the Supreme, let the Supreme supply ammunition to his people.

If he’s supreme, he’s also the commander-in-chief of the entire Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and whether or not to give ammunition to someone, this will not be the case.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: private person

If the PMC is the personal guard of the Supreme, let the Supreme supply ammunition to his people.

Zolotov's personal guard of the Supreme.
It seems to me that Prigogine answers many questions that he is not asked. He feels that he is going into the shadows, but he does not want to go into the shadows .. He is already used to giving assessments to ministries, commanders and armies ..
He will not go anywhere - they will take away heavy weapons from Prigozhin - you won’t storm much with Kalash alone ..

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: ROSS_51

He will not go anywhere - they will take away heavy weapons from Prigozhin - you won’t storm much with Kalash alone ..

And who will select it? Under him at least 20 thousand fighters.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: karabas-barabas

And who will select it? Under him at least 20 thousand fighters.

Ministry of Defense .. just as it gave.
They will order, and hand over everything according to the act of acceptance and transfer.
No one has ever given heavy weapons to the Kadyrovites, and in peacetime no one will. Enough, already scientists ..
Prigogine has already spoken for two life sentences, but he is not a suicidal man to play Makhno. They will quickly smear the forehead with green.
Yes, and Wagner are citizens of the Russian Federation, and not from the island of Tortuga.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: ROSS_51

Ministry of Defense .. just as it gave.
They will order, and hand over everything according to the act of acceptance and transfer.

You are far from real events apparently. They won't take anything away from Prigozhin. Moreover, there are plenty of facts about how Wagner took equipment and ammunition from the RF Armed Forces. Prigozhin does not even consider it necessary to even talk to the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces, let alone carry out their orders, and he explained why.

Quote: ROSS_51

No one has ever given heavy weapons to the Kadyrovites, and in peacetime no one will.

Well, the Kadyrovites, unlike Prigozhin and the Wagners, are not Russian, and the devil knows what they can arrange with these weapons. Yes, and they do not know how to use it to the fullest. Or they will have to hire experienced Russian officers.

Quote: ROSS_51

Prigogine has already spoken for two life sentences, but he is not a suicidal man to play Makhno. They will quickly smear the forehead with green.

He said something he said and every day he actively speaks. They could get it, they would have got it long ago and smeared their forehead with green paint.

[vladcub]

"victims of a rogue", in fact, the people have a different opinion, and this means something

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: ivan2022

It's just a pity that people become victims of a rogue and his patron.

And who did not serve a day, a woodcarver, a tank biathlete, Marshal Shoigu, who do you think? I honestly don’t understand why he is sitting in this uniform and with such a face in the middle of the General Staff over military maps?

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

There were, but only from the point of view of Prigogine himself. As they said in the movie "Shirley Myrli": "You eat a lot. I mean, you snickered." Without a very large number of shells, the Wagners would not have been able to push through such a defense (all the more, according to Prigogine himself, with a favorable loss ratio for himself, but here it’s a matter of faith in the words of the cook). The flooding of machine guns by crowds of suicide bombers only works in a bad movie.

[nikniknik]

were and are. try to communicate with those who have been there, with those who have become disabled and are in hospitals, with those who were awarded orders and medals

[Thrifty]

And what do the Wagnerites have to do with the army? By signing a contract, they will be equated to an ordinary military unit, naturally, it automatically excludes their use for which the company was created and work was created outside of Russia. The Moscow Region will not introduce Wagner as a structure into those organizations that can be used outside of Russia. And the use of Wagnerians outside the country in this case can only be short-term, and CONORD itself concludes contracts with one or another state in the same Africa to perform certain tasks on favorable terms for Wagner. So they are doing the right thing, with the MO they can conclude a short-term contract without an extension for further participation in their own, which will not suit both parties. So everything stays the same...

[lisikat2]

I think that Prigogine has thought of everything and knows what to do

[flicker]

I think that Prigogine has thought of everything and knows what to do

Prigozhin is NOT an independent subject, he will do what he says.

For an example, look at his biography.
And of interest is his restaurant rise (in the 90s in St. Petersburg - the "criminal capital of Russia") - from nowhere to the owner of a chain of restaurants, including ELITE.
In the 90s, "crime" owned many restaurants, but the city's ELITE did not visit these restaurants.
And I visited Prigozhin's restaurant, which means that behind Prigozhin's success was not crime, but the elite. Moreover, only the corresponding elite could support Prigogine - the Jewish one, which was built into so many state institutions.
So Prigogine became part of a powerful ethnic system.
As soon as you become a part of the SYSTEM, you immediately receive the necessary power of this SYSTEM. The more powerful the SYSTEM, the greater the power of support.
But, in return, you will do what this SYSTEM requires of you.
If you let the SYSTEM down, it will crush you.

Conclusion: Prigogine is not an independent subject - it means he will do what this SYSTEM tells him.
When Prigozhin attacks the Defense Ministry (in the person of Shoigu and Gerasimov - and by the way, PUTIN approved them for these positions!) This means that the elite Jewish (pro-Western) SYSTEM runs into the SYSTEM, part and core of which is Putin.

There is someone there to think for him.
So all this struggle is a struggle between systems.

[flicker]

Extension
Once again, Conclusion: Prigogine is not an independent subject - it means he will do what this SYSTEM tells him.
When Prigozhin attacks the Defense Ministry (in the person of Shoigu and Gerasimov - and by the way, PUTIN approved them for these positions!) This means that the elite Jewish (pro-Western) SYSTEM runs into the SYSTEM, part and core of which is Putin.
---
The question is what does each of the SYSTEMS want?
More or less accurately, we can talk about the SYSTEM, which includes Putin (and hence the Moscow Region, the FSB, the Russian Guard) - she in fact challenged the WEST.

Based on this, one can see the direction of the SYSTEM behind Prigogine.
Those. one can say about Prigozhin's SYSTEM (since it attacks Putin's) that, on the contrary, it shares the values ​​of the West and does not want to quarrel with it. In other words, it is ready to accept the conditions of the West (to merge from the front).
---
In the context of the struggle between these two SYSTEMS, Prigozhin's conflict with the leadership of Akhmat should also be considered. The leadership of Akhmat, represented by Ramzan Kadyrov, did not allow Prigozhin to merge from the Bakhmut front on May 10 and thereby collapse the front before the expected "counterattack" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
The collapse of the front + the successful "counterattack" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine should have raised a protest wave in Russian society.
So, Kadyrov did not let this happen - hence the boorish statements of Prigozhin against Akhmat units.

Therefore, Akhmat is for Putin, and Prigozhin is against (and how the Wagner fighters position themselves in this conflict is an open question).
---
There is no individual Prigozhin, but there is a protege of a powerful pro-Western elite SYSTEM.
---
Once again,

If Prigozhin fails his SYSTEM (and he fails her - he leaked so much money and could not raise a rebellion), then she will crush him.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: flicker

The leadership of Akhmat, represented by Ramzan Kadyrov, did not allow Prigozhin to merge from the Bakhmut front on May 10 and thereby collapse the front before the expected "counterattack" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

How can Kadyrov allow something, or not allow Prigogine? Did you miss what Prigozhin answered? He said when we leave, Akhmat can take our positions. After that, there was a boorish attack on Prigozhin by the Kadyrovites, but Prigozhin sent them politely in three letters. Kadyrov ate billions of dollars from the Russian budget for years, creating the illusion of the formation of a formidable army of Chechens, who are supposedly "Putin's foot soldiers" and give only an order, they will reach Warsaw. But in reality, they can only drive mobilized Russians to the line of contact. For several reasons. The first is their fake general shoulder straps, the Kadyrovites have no military education or experience in maintaining a database, these are not those ferocious Chechens like Gelaevsky, Basaevsky, or at least Yamadaevsky special forces and not former officers of the USSR SA like Maskhadov, or Dudayev, who knew how to could wage war. And the second reason, when Prigozhin received budget money, he created an army, and did not buy thousands of luxury cars and built palaces.

Quote: flicker

There is no individual Prigozhin, but there is a protege of a powerful pro-Western elite SYSTEM

Who considers him and his organization terrorist? You have very strange ideas about the "Western elite".

[flicker]

Who is Prigozhin by nationality?
If you are shy, I will help you answer - a Jew.
Now once again about his biography

From the biography of Prigogine
Of interest is his restaurant rise (in the 90s in St. Petersburg - the "criminal capital of Russia") - from nowhere to the owner of a chain of restaurants including ELITE.
Yesterday a convict, and today the owner of a chain of restaurants!!!
Such ups do not just happen, someone helped. Question: who?

In the 90s, "crime" owned many restaurants, but the city's ELITE did not visit these restaurants.
And I visited Prigozhin's restaurant, which means that behind Prigozhin's success was not crime, but the elite. Moreover, only the corresponding elite could support Prigogine - Jewish , which was built into so many state institutions.

So Prigogine became part of a powerful ethnic system.
As soon as you become a part of the SYSTEM, you immediately receive the necessary power of this SYSTEM. The more powerful the SYSTEM, the greater the power of support.
But, in return, you will do what this SYSTEM requires of you.
If you let the SYSTEM down, it will crush you.

---
And the SYSTEM will still crush Prigogine, because he has thrown hundreds of billions of rubles down the drain.
Not for that, the kahal poured in hundreds of billions, so that PMC Wagner smashed the kahal project in Ukraine on them.
Here Prigozhin stupidly runs into the Russian Defense Ministry, and now he was still trying to inflate an interethnic conflict between Russians and Chechens.
But here, too, he failed.
THE SYSTEM will still crush Prigozhin

[flicker]

How can Kadyrov allow something, or not allow Prigogine?

1. Prigogine is NOT an independent subject. (behind him is the pro-Western elite).
One month of the war cost Prigozhin (only for wages!) about 10 billion rubles.
Where is the money?
We know from the oligarchs. Have our oligarchs become philanthropists? No.
Then why do they (and we are talking about hundreds!!! billions of rubles) spend that kind of money?

1.1 Prigozhin's goal was to lock in the energy of the patriots.
And he could do this only through success at the front. It was not for nothing that they wrote that Prigozhin persuaded Budanov in January to merge the Armed Forces of Ukraine with Bakhmut.
2. As soon as the energy of the patriots is closed to the PMC Wagner (and everyone has been drummed into the brain that this is equal to PRIGOGIN), i.e. on Prigozhin, then this energy can be directed to the scrapping of the Russian Defense Ministry, and then Putin, and then Russia.
Two circumstances were necessary: ​​the collapse of the front (on May 10, Wagner was supposed to merge from the front) + the successful "counterattack" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Now, how did Kadyrov prevent Prigozhin from merging with Bakhmut?

For Prigozhin (read: for pro-Western oligarchs), cattle is important collapse the front, which would have happened after Wagner left Bakhmut.
But, Kadyrov said that Akhmat would take their position - which means there would be no COLLAPSE OF THE FRONT!
And Prigozhin (those who are behind him) needed a COLLAPSE.
What was the point then for Prigogine to go out if the collapse of the front did not occur?
Here he stayed.
That is how Kadyrov did not allow Prigozhin to merge from the front - he depreciated this trick.
---

Did you miss what Prigozhin answered? He said when we leave, Akhmat can take our positions.

Don't you see the trick in this?
"When we leave" ukry can also come in.
Therefore, Kadyrov told the cook: you will defend yourself until we enter, and then we will decide where to go next.
---

After that there was a boorish attack on Prigozhin by the Kadyrovites

You don't know Caucasians at all.
Kadyrov called Prigozhin "dear BROTHER", and Prigozhin was nasty: all the fighters, they say, refused to use "obscene form." I could omit it (if it's true), but since I said it, it means I deliberately provoked an ethnic conflict.

Prigozhin sent them politely in three letters

He sent himself.

He did not answer the calls of the Chechens, he began to hide, for which he rushed to the Far East, from there to Yekaterinburg, then somewhere in the forest (he saved his ass).
Meanwhile, his "roof" was supposed to reduce the perseverance of the Chechens. By the way, the "roof" succeeded, Kadyrov called Prigozhin.
But, the whole "roof" lit up.
And Prigozhin himself again saddled the KhUTsPU and continued to be rude.
For Prigogine has no other way out.
"Roof" will not forgive him the waste of hundreds of billions of rubles.
Prigozhin must either revolt or the "roof" will crush him.


Not for this, the kahal poured hundreds of billions into Prigozhin, so that he, together with Wagner PMC, smashed the kahal project in Ukraine.

Prigozhin, in order to survive, needs to merge the owners of his SYSTEM and go over to another SYSTEM.
---
In the near future we will see the outcome of this situation.

[cmax]

Quote: flicker

When Prigozhin attacks the Moscow Region (in the person of Shoigu and Gerasimov - and by the way, PUTIN approved them for these positions!

The question is not about Prigozhin, the question is about the ability of the above leaders of the Ministry of Defense to comply with the solution of problems for the Victory in the NWO. They gave Prigozhin so many reasons to speak out against them that if it weren't for Prigozhin, someone would still say humiliating words about these generals who have been preparing Russia for war for the past 10 years. The result of their work on the face.

[flicker]

The question is not about Prigozhin, the question is about the ability of the above leaders of the Ministry of Defense to comply with the solution of problems for the Victory in the NWO

Come on.
I recommend to read
https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1254482&full
Western military analyst.
Once again, I recommend.

[AA17]

And what do the Wagnerites have to do with the army?

Nothing in particular to discuss. But all this is reminiscent of plots from our history during the Civil War: the military units of Mishka Yaponchik and the Army of Old Man Makhno, which were used in the critically dangerous areas of military clashes with the White Army.

[km-21]

In fact, during the war, all military formations perform a common task, therefore they must obey a single command. The alternative to this is the Makhnovshchina, doomed to be defeated by any sufficiently organized enemy. For example, contrary to popular belief, the partisans of the Great Patriotic War had a deep connection with the "mainland", centralized command, supply and target designation, and even rotation. And those who were not part of this system were limited to unsystematic raids on the local population and the extraction of provisions for self-sufficiency.

[Alexey Lantukh]

In general, factories providing weapons and ammunition are not subordinate to the Ministry of Defense. So that's also a very interesting question. You can supply Wagner from factories directly, or you can through MO.

[km-21]

All factories for the production of ammunition and weapons are subordinate to the Ministry of Industry and Trade. But at the government level, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Ministry of Defense certainly coordinate their activities. And in the event of a major war, in general, all managerial powers pass into the hands of the State Defense Committee. So, in any case, the supply of ammunition bypassing the Ministry of Defense, or even more so the State Defense Committee, is absolutely excluded.

[koramax81]

You ? Were there problems or was there a tricky game for the opponent?

[guild]

As for subordination, of course, Wagner PMC is absolutely completely subordinate to the interests of the Russian Federation and the Supreme Commander

Question closed guys! Let the librda whine and scream)))
PMCs are preparing them for .. Well, I'd better keep quiet!

[guild]

Quote from grem

As for subordination, of course, Wagner PMC is absolutely completely subordinate to the interests of the Russian Federation and the Supreme Commander

Question closed guys! Let the librda whine and scream)))
PMCs are preparing them for .. Well, I'd better keep quiet!

Tsipsohniki arrived in time hehe ..Let's drive the crowd and kick the Russian patriot bastards !!!
All in minuses and only whiners +. Everything is gone and it's time to run (where they don't say)))
Oh, you farmers .. You no longer have fat, some NATO dry rations expired. Come to us, we will wet!

[Xnumx vis]

Quote from grem

Tsipsohniki arrived in time hehe ..Let's drive the crowd and kick the Russian patriot bastards !!!

Meehan? Reincarnation?

[Murmur 55]

Yeah, a regrettable conflict of interest at the most inopportune moment, that's why?!

[guild]

Quote: Murmur 55

Yeah, a regrettable conflict of interest at the most inopportune moment, that's why?!

And to identify whiners and traitors to Russia !!!
They activated on Prigogine .. Like, "he who will start the turmoil" And we will arrive from Europe and lead barbaric Russia hehe
Prigogine has already begun to be promoted on enemy sites ha ha ah ah
And traitors have already been identified in the General Staff, etc.
Back in the 90s they settled everywhere .. Chubais won an Israeli citizen for work ..
And I remember when he became the head of the EEC, he disconnected strategic military points from power grids
There, machine gunners had to be allocated to guard the knife switch .. Yes, and in general this red-haired hud

[alystan]

Prigozhin commented on the order signed the day before by Shoigu, which gives all volunteers the right to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense until July 1 of this year to give volunteer detachments a legal status.

No one paid much attention to this very order of Shoigu, who at once wants to crush everyone under him. Everyone rushed to discuss Prigogine's decision and possibilities.

And Shoigu before that, everywhere and everywhere claimed that the army was self-sufficient. Now, for some reason, he needed all the volunteer units / formations. He cannot establish order in the troops entrusted to him, so why create even more crap for himself? To break through the knee objectionable?

If you believe the same Prigozhin, then it was Shoigu who was against Wagner collaborating with the border regions in the preparation of self-defense units. And he once again offered his help. But she was hacked to death, as we know.

And where is the minister now after numerous attacks by Ukrainian DRGs with his "we ourselves with a mustache"? According to the governors, there was no training, no help from the Ministry of Defense ...

[km-21]

You can certainly think that the conflict between Wagner and the RF Ministry of Defense continues. But judging by the results, it looks more like an informational special operation to mislead the enemy. However, each reader decides for himself what it all looks like. And we will know the real truth only after some time, when this topic will lose its relevance and can be revealed in the memoirs of the participants in today's events.

[Lech from Android.]

Well I do not know...
on the Internet, some personalities pour so much shit on Prigozhin and the Wagnerites ... Mom, don't worry.
Sometimes I think that they will burn out of hatred for him ... I think it's the Ukronazis who pour out their anger for defeats from musicians on the battlefield on readers.
The story with Vinivitin requires a thorough investigation... there is a lot of cloudy and bad-smelling amber.

[km-21]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Well I do not know...

So nobody knows. We can only guess with a probability of 50/50.
And this is the only correct answer. Everything else is speculation and insinuation.

[lisikat2]

"in the internet" as in "Greece has everything" And I have a head, what would: "filter"

[alystan]

He is such an Inet, and not such a "tolerate" ...
DAM, Peskov and other Nabiulins in the internet, how do they wool?
And nothing, they sit happily on state bread and do not blow their mustaches ...
Prigozhin certainly has carte blanche for such behavior.
Otherwise, the same Shoigu would quickly deal with him.

[Bear]

I absolutely agree with you, but no less shit is pouring from the other side. If we need to introduce a code of honor for the NWO, if we just need to be more tolerant of each other.

[pathnuty]

You can find out / determine the truth on the basis of three "whales": 1 primary source (it is unlikely that readers will be allowed into the archives of the Moscow Region), 2 the opinion of professionals (a more likely option, only they, unfortunately, keep their opinion to themselves), 3 personal experience ( well, everything is clear here)

[solar]

an order signed the day before by Shoigu, which gives all volunteers the right to sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense until July 1 of this year to give volunteer detachments a legal status.

the meaning of Shoigu's order is distorted.
Volunteers can sign a contract either with the Ministry of Defense or with a volunteer detachment on the condition that the contract with the Ministry of Defense is signed by the detachment itself.

[Arkadich]

Didn't get the idea. What difference does a volunteer sign a contract individually or a squad in bulk? All the same, there will be the same rights and obligations. The only thing is that when signed by a detachment, perhaps the structure, more precisely, the command staff is preserved and the detachment is integrated into the structure of the Moscow Region.
How Prigozhin is going to build interaction with the Moscow Region is also not clear, if earlier there were many volunteer battalions plus units of the LDNR and Wagner did not stand out against this background, how is he going to act?

[solar]

Didn't get the idea. Who cares...

the text of Shoigu's order has been altered in such a way that one gets the false impression that the detachment may or may not sign, but "has the right." Actually you are right

when signed by a detachment, perhaps the structure, more precisely, the command staff is preserved and the detachment is integrated into the structure of the Moscow Region.

And if it is not signed, the fighters individually transfer to the Moscow Region, and the detachment actually ceases to exist as an independent unit.

Wagner did not stand out against this background, how is he going to act?

And now this is a question.

[Sumotori_380]

Does the current legislation provide for the conclusion of a contract with the Moscow Region for legal entities? Perhaps it means that if all members of the squad sign a contract, then its structure can be saved

[solar]

The order for specific volunteers provides options for signing a contract - either directly with the Defense Ministry or with a detachment.

[nov_tech.vrn]

The procedure for the entry of citizens of the Russian Federation into volunteer formations has been established.
Volunteer formations are created by the Ministry of Defense by decision of the President. The Ministry determined the procedure for the entry of citizens of the Russian Federation into these formations, stay in them and exclusion from such formations; requirements for entering and staying in them; the procedure for concluding a contract on staying in a volunteer formation and its standard form.
Citizens who are not in military service, wishing to enter volunteer formations, submit applications to the military commissariats at the place of military registration, not registered in the military - at the place of residence. When selecting candidates, priority will be given to previously serving citizens with military registration specialties. Also, the candidate must pass a medical examination and psychological selection.
A contract will be concluded with a citizen who meets the established requirements. He will receive a certificate of staying in a volunteer formation. It also provides for the training of volunteers - at least 10 days.
Registered with the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation on March 6, 2023 Registration No. 72533.
We read carefully, I was personally present during the conversation in the fall, when the volunteer was escorted out of the military registration and enlistment office, on the basis that he did not serve and did not have a higher education institution, and Wagner would have taken him.

[Aviator_]

As for subordination, of course, Wagner PMC is absolutely completely subordinate to the interests of the Russian Federation and the Supreme Commander

Personal guard of GDP? Oh really? And where does Prigogine get the money from - donations from citizens that they voluntarily transfer?

[Irokez]

It seems that the one, as in civilian life, Makhno fought for the Reds, and then for himself, and so on.
In the management of all our divisions, it is necessary to establish order and a vertical of power, otherwise it will be "I want it - I don't want it, and I don't obey anyone." In the end, Surovikin is given an order by the Moscow Region and through him let the capricious Wagner carry out orders. There, Mezintsev should still be at least some kind of intermediary.

[Lech from Android.]

The Moscow Region broke firewood at the beginning of the NWO ... so I even understand Prigogine very well.
Moreover, remember how the Wagnerites were set up in Syria ... leaving them to be torn apart by American aviation ... it was a very ugly story.

[Irokez]

Quote: Lech from Android.

The Moscow Region broke firewood at the beginning of the NWO ... so I understand Prigogine very well.

Do you want to say that the Wagnerites in the person of Prigogine did not break firewood?
In a war, nothing ever goes according to plan and everything has to be rescheduled every moment, and therefore the Ministry of Defense planned one thing, but in the end everything changes and you can’t blame the Ministry of Defense for 100% like the rest if someone ruined their plans (I repeat someone, for example Anglo-Saxon analysts).
I suspect that PR also plays a role here, and even a game between the military when the squabble goes on top of each other and pulling the blanket over who is the coolest on the battlefield.
You understand that any advertising is beneficial to entrepreneurs for their services, although they are of better quality than state ones, but the price is higher. And no one wants to be controlled by 100%, wanting to solve some of the issues on their own, not according to the charter, but as they want on the spot. The charter limits and bureaucratizes this, and this is a fact, and therefore it is more effective to solve problems yourself - this is both faster and more consistent, which is more successful.
Probably the shell hunger of the same problem when the Ministry of Defense gives everyone equally, and the private trader wants to make all the fields like a lunar landscape showing the enemy so that we don’t have a lot of ammunition, but this just mindlessly and inefficiently leaves ammunition into the void. You just don’t save up for everyone who wants it, but the front line must be kept everywhere, and not just where Wagner is.
Well, I'm not against the effective Wagner, but somehow it is necessary to resolve issues amicably, and not to wash dirty linen in public, and if it is taken out, then something tricky is laid down here and we do not understand.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Irokez

You understand that any advertising is beneficial to entrepreneurs for their services, although they are of better quality than state ones, but the price is higher

The weight categories of an entrepreneur and MO are different.
The entrepreneur risks his skin and head and can lose everything.
Behind the back of the Ministry of Defense are the resources of the entire state ... there is even nothing to compare here.

[Irokez]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Entrepreneur risks his skin and head and can lose everything

I didn’t quite understand, but that the personnel military of the RF Ministry of Defense does not risk his skin and head on the battlefield?

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Irokez

I didn’t quite understand, but that a regular military officer of the RF Ministry of Defense does not risk his own skin and head?

What is the risk of the chief of the General Staff?
In case of failure, he will be transferred to another position.
That's all.
If Prigozhin fails, he will lose his freedom, his PMC, and maybe even his life.

[Irokez]

Damn, either I'm stupid or you're smart.
The NHS solves problems together with the entire General Staff about the main problems and directions of the current state of affairs, and if intelligence has given false information, then the decisions of the General Staff will be wrong or dead ends. At the same time, if we assume that the same Prigozhin or Strelkov is (let's say) the NGSH, then they will also be wrong that the GS screwed up. And this is all from incorrect or false information from intelligence (which in this case does not risk anything).
I showed you just one moment out of many when the NGSH at the head of the General Staff makes a mistake, but not through its own direct fault, but from a subordinate intelligence unit. And there may also be traitors within the General Staff, the work of enemy counterintelligence, sabotage and personal ambitions among the military, and so on and so forth. Then you can fantasize yourself who or what influences decision-making at all levels.
And so indiscriminately and without evidence to accuse everyone of all sins - this is a sin in itself - "Do not judge and you will not be judged." If you accuse, then at least stipulate that this is only your personal opinion, such as - "I think so."

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Irokez

if intelligence gave false information, then the decisions of the General Staff will be incorrect or dead ends.

The organization of intelligence is the responsibility of the headquarters. As organized, then received.

Decisions are made depending on the prevailing situation and the availability of resources.
And whether adequate decisions or not depends on the level of training of both the commander and the headquarters.
If the commander is a blockhead, then no headquarters, even the best in the world, will help out from sad consequences, because. the decision is up to the commander, the headquarters only proposes.

[Irokez]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

As organized, then received.

Do you want to say that our intelligence is poor and the NGSH personally recruits people into a group and sends it behind the front line?
Intelligence is a mass of data from many sources and they are collated, combined, analyzed and provided to the top officials. NGSH or GSh receive summary data if I understand correctly.

the decision is up to the commander, the headquarters only proposes.

Well, what's wrong with that?
Whose proposal is more logical, adequate, thoughtful, verified, then in all likelihood it is accepted and maybe even by a majority vote, and the main one approves. I don't see sedition.

If the commander of the blockhead

Who do you mean?

[man]

What is the risk of the chief of the General Staff?
In case of failure, he will be transferred to another position.
rather be awarded

[Bear]

You are sure that the "entrepreneur", in this particular case, risks "his" funds. Calculate how much money you need, with an average salary for PMC workers, in addition to compensation for the wounded and killed. Do you think that the head of the PMC bears the costs with "his" funds?

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Orso

Do you think that the head of the PMC bears the costs with "his" funds?

In addition to the fact that Prigozhin supplies, or supplied the army (and not only the army, but also schools) with food, he also had a lot of income from working with African kings, and this is just what is on the surface, I believe he has dozens of businesses around the world. And if you followed Prigozhin's cart, he thanked various sponsors from the Russian Federation more than once. So for a few months he will quite pull, and the main core of the Wagner PMC, and this is from at least 20 thousand employees, 5 thousand for sure, will be without a salary for Prigozhin. That is why Shoigu came up with this decree in order to put the Wagners before a choice - either a contract with the army, or outside the law, with all the consequences, and deprive Prigozhin of physical protection.

[MeVED]

there is something tricky here that we don't understand.

It seems that Prigogine said everything directly and unsophisticated. He does not want to obey the Ministry of Defense, because, in his opinion, the units of the Ministry of Defense are not able to effectively carry out their tasks precisely because of commanders who do not have the necessary knowledge. That is, he is not given orders, but is offered to complete the task, he declares the resources necessary for this and undertakes to complete the task in the ways he considers necessary. All. Apparently, this does not suit MO. There could be many reasons, we can only guess. But the reason why Wagner does not want to obey the MO is stated quite clearly.

[Aviator_]

Moreover, remember how the Wagnerites were set up in Syria ... leaving them to be torn apart by American aviation ... it was a very ugly story.

This is when they wanted to squeeze the wells from the Americans? Well, yes, they didn’t have their own military air defense then, now they have.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: Aviator_

This is when they wanted to squeeze the wells from the Americans? Well, yes, they didn’t have their own military air defense then, now they have.

No ... this is when the army team disowned the Wagnerites by untying the Americans' hands to launch an airstrike.
Now Wagnerian scientists will not step on this rake a second time.

[Aviator_]

No ... this is when the army team disowned the Wagnerites by untying the Americans' hands to launch an airstrike.

From this place in more detail pls. I somehow don’t remember our motorized riflemen in Syria, not Afghan, after all.

[Xenofont]

There is a whole regiment of marines and all sorts of consolidated units of darkness, not counting the specialists. It's only on earth.

[Aviator_]

There is a whole regiment of marines and all sorts of consolidated units of darkness, not counting the specialists. It's only on earth.

Prigozhin, when he climbed into the American wells, did he demand marines, consolidated detachments, or a host of specialists? Or did he beat Palmyra with them? He really recaptured Palmyra, but together with the Syrians, and not with ours. And the Syrians fell in love with Palmyra.

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: Aviator_

From this place in more detail pls.

When Wagner and Assad went to the oil plant, which was under the Kurds, they were noticed by the Americans and called the headquarters of the Russian Armed Forces in Syria and warned that the Kurds were not alone there, and if the column did not turn around, we would shoot. To which they said at the headquarters of the RF Armed Forces, but we didn’t ... The column not only did not turn around, but also deployed artillery and began firing at the positions of the Americans with the Kurds. Noteworthy are Putin's words about the death of the Wagnerites near Deir a Zor.

[man]

Moreover, remember how the Wagnerites were set up in Syria ... leaving them to be torn apart by American aviation ... it was a very ugly story.
All my life I have despised and poorly understood intrigues, but I am still in shock from this historical .. abomination. Refuse my own ... actually hand over for slaughter ... if I say the words that spin on my tongue, I won’t get off with a second warning , banned forever

[karabas-barabas]

Quote: mann

shocked by this history.. abomination. Refuse your ..

There is a video where Putin was asked a question about this incident, remember that he answered the death of the Wagners?

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

Even more firewood was broken during the assault on Palmyra. The commander, who was drunk in the boob and chased the janitor, because of some ambition, did not support the Wagners with either artillery or aviation. And when they occupied the dominant heights, he hastened to report on the capture of Palmyra to Moscow. The chief thief received a hero's star for taking the palmyra. And from the heels of the generals for the company .. That's something like that.

[The collective farm is voluntary.]

It is the donations of "ordinary" citizens. Those citizens for whom African diamonds and Syrian oil were won.

[dementor873]

As soon as they go under the auspices of the Defense Ministry, they will immediately begin to plug holes, like fire brigades and throw them into the most dangerous areas, or even begin to form a hodgepodge with the mobilized. Campaign someone is pulling the strings, fearing such an uncontrollable force. Abramovich, show your face.
For me, it’s better to let Wagner go into direct subordination to Putin for every fireman, like amusing regiments under Peter 1.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: dementor873

For me, it’s better to let Wagner go into direct subordination to Putin for every fireman, like amusing regiments under Peter 1.

So Tsar Peter was on the battlefield and was aware of what was happening ... Are you sure that Putin has reliable information about the situation in the zone of the NWO? I'm not sure!
And yet ... What is Putin's experience in conducting a database? In what battles did his leadership talent manifest itself?
* * *
But Prigogine can be understood. This person is accustomed to receiving a specific task, forces and means for its implementation. And to receive the EBCU from a leader who cannot curb the whims of his own daughter while leading the NWO is extremely imprudent ...

[nik-mazur]

Quote: ROSS 42

Are you sure that Putin has reliable information about the situation in the NWO zone? I'm not sure!

Well, if Putin does not have reliable information, then this means that no one has them. And for couch analysts whose level of knowledge and understanding tends to zero.

Quote: ROSS 42

What experience does Putin have in running a b/d?

Chechnya, Georgia, Syria? That is, according to anyone, more than commentators on the forums.

[nik-mazur]

It's funny, but eight minuses is the standard under a lot of comments that do not correspond to the agenda of the guard-patriots.

[nik-mazur]

Chetarzhu, as Prigozhin's guard-patriots got hooked. They pulled up reserves and rushed in a crowd, like the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Zaporozhye ...

[man]

As soon as they go under the auspices of the Ministry of Defense, they will immediately begin to plug holes, like fire brigades, and throw them into the most dangerous areas
Well, let's say, even before that, they were obviously not picking their noses in the rear

[Xenofont]

Wagner is still a necessary alternative to the Moscow Region, demonstrating in practice how it is possible and necessary to fight. Without belittling the role of the heroic guys from the structures of the Defense Ministry, the PMC sets an example of the correct organization and management in hostilities. In the army there are a huge number of commanders of all levels of gunpowder who did not sniff and did not even expect to sniff! Politicians have been talking for decades about the impossibility of a large-scale war.

[Pivasik]

The fog of war ... It can be so different, and sometimes it is not immediately clear

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Pivasik

The fog of war ... It can be so different, and sometimes it is not immediately clear

The fog is cast by those who want to hide the true goals. In war, everything is simple:

“As usual, victory has a hundred fathers, and defeat is an orphan”

[faterdom]

How so, after all, Shoigu is the founding father of United Russia, or rather, its bureaucratic wing "Fatherland", and "All Russia" was created by Luzhkov and Shaimiev.
Then these parties merged, United Russia was created, from which Shoigu did not become a deputy, inflating the electorate. A certain Gryzlov, unknown to anyone, was appointed head, who greatly refreshed the world parliamentarism, declaring that "Parliament is not a place for discussions."
In general, it is necessary to take control of the one to whom Shoigu, and Gerasimov, and Prigozhin, and Kadyrov agree to obey - something that has been obvious to everyone for more than a year: the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command should be created under the leadership of the President in order to resolve interdepartmental issues with lightning speed, resolve disputes and contradictions there, and not on the Internet, and even more so not on the ground.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: faterdom

the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command should be created under the leadership of the President

The thought is correct, because there is nothing more important than victory in the NWO (in the war with NATO) ... But what about the rating, if anything? And he has two more terms to be elected ...
* * *
I'll tell you more ... During the reign of the GDP, very rarely anyone was designated (appointed) responsible (guilty) for something ... The wording is much more pleasant: "Loss of trust." You can’t get to the bottom of anything right away ... When they appointed, there was trust ... You never know where a person went with him, what corridors he walked ... He stuck his head in, but his pockets were empty ... I lost ... And it’s inconvenient to select awards, and punish for nothing...

[Alekc]

Just like in Sudan, things are developing. bad similarities

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Aleks

Just like in Sudan, things are developing. bad similarities

Until he bends the stick. Actually, as soon as the consequences of the "set" were assessed, access was immediately blocked and no "outrage" helped. And so on, as it really calls into question the state's monopoly on the use of force, they will immediately close the shop.

[thepuppeteer]

This is no surprise
The Russian defense apparatus is outdated and corrupt. Winning this war is a side issue There are too many business interests outweighing actually winning this special operation/war Of course this shouldn't be said but the truth is the truth the future will confirm this
And yes NATO is a problem but nothing is being done about it.. Only rhetoric talk.. Maybe that's for the best. The leaders have grandchildren who want to see them grow up..That is normal behavior. No one pursues death

[Svetlana]

And on an English-speaking forum to go? Or any other where your language is spoken.
Or respecting those who do not understand your language, translate the texts, because you are with us and not we are with you.

[Blackgrifon]

Spanish shame... It is not for the British and Americans to talk about corruption in the military environment.

[beybender]

In the Russian government, everyone does what they want!!! Prigozhin periodically sorts out relations with the Moscow Region and Akhmat !!! But the coolest thing is how the governor of Primorye met Sapega !!! This woman was imprisoned for participating in an attempted coup d'état in Belarus, pardoned by Lukashenko, and in Primorye, the local prince, the governor, almost made a prisoner of conscience out of her !!! You are there in Russia, first figure it out, allies !!!

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Excuse me, that in Russia, without due respect and trembling in the knees, they treat the verdicts of the most honest and fair Belarusian court.

[beybender]

You are responsible for your own courts and do not go into other people's !!! With allies like you, there is no need for enemies !!! You can relocate at the most inopportune moment, Kharkiv region and Kherson are witnesses to this !!!

[Svetlana]

They will eat. How they ate Alexander Suvorov, Denis Davydov, or relatively recently Grigory Konstantinovich Zhukov. They will eat it, because the top does not share power and will not share it.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Svetlana

They will eat. How

And they will do it right. No one should question the state's monopoly on the use of force.
And put him on a par with A.V. Suvorov, Davydov or Zhukov is generally ridiculous.

Quote: Svetlana

recently Zhukov Grigory Konstantinovich

You need to know history.

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

Actually, Zhukov's name was GEORGE. Well, again, briefly.

[Lech from Android.]

Quote: km-21

Quote: Lech from Android.

Well I do not know...

So nobody knows. We can only guess with a probability of 50/50.
And this is the only correct answer. Everything else is speculation and insinuation.

Now we will not know the whole truth ... we must wait until the passions subside ... and it will be possible to calmly figure everything out.

[Konnick]

Some bad associations arise ...

The text of your comment is too short and in the opinion of the site administration does not carry useful information

But sometimes one picture is better than a thousand words.

[kill the fascist]

Unfortunately the fuss continues. I hope that the participants in these clan wars will have enough reason and common sense. The enemy is on the other side of the LBS.

[ximkim]

Quote from beybender

In the Russian government, everyone does what they want!!! Prigozhin periodically sorts out relations with the Moscow Region and Akhmat !!! But the coolest thing is how the governor of Primorye met Sapega !!! This woman was imprisoned for participating in an attempted coup d'état in Belarus, pardoned by Lukashenko, and in Primorye, the local prince, the governor, almost made a prisoner of conscience out of her !!! You are there in Russia, first figure it out, allies !!!

Her.
The mess in Russia will only increase. The mess is the feeding trough of the country's leadership.

[Ythink]

The condottiere Prigozhin is in his right ... Nonsense and shame, the condottiere with his mercenary army already exists, what's next? Will the feudal lords lead the militia along the arjerban?

[Konnick]

The condottiere Prigozhin is in his right ... Nonsense and shame, the condottiere with his mercenary army already exists, what's next? Will the feudal lords lead the militia along the arjerban?

Well, if the army of the Minister of Defense can’t cope, you have to turn to professionals

Who has Colleoni.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Konnick

Well, if the army of the Minister of Defense can’t cope, you have to turn to professionals

Brad.

[pathnuty]

In this case, one has to turn to comrades Minin and Pozharsky ...

[Konnick]

In this case, one has to turn to comrades Minin and Pozharsky ...

I wrote - who has Colleoni

The coat of arms of the Colleoni condottiere family is decorated with three pairs of seed plants. It is believed that the symbol of the family is due to one of its founders, Gisalberto Colleoni, with a characteristic physiological feature, the third testicle, which could be the result of orchitis. In general, the surname itself can be written as Coglioni, that is, “testicles”. One of the representatives of the family, Bartolomeo Colleoni, immortalized the family coat of arms on a monument to his beloved in Venice, installing it with his own money. Triple testicles can also be found on the coat of arms depicted on a tombstone in the Bergamo Cathedral.

When I was in Venice, I honored the monument to Bartolomeo Colleoni with my presence and the local accordionist played Katyusha for me. I didn't ask him
Yes, and in Cuba there is a savory expression "Cojones", which is the same in translation.

[rotkiv04]

I would give Shoigu a magic pendal so that he would take up military affairs, and not his favorite pastime - intrigues and informing

[RED_ICE]

Yes, no one really knows what is happening and who is right and who is wrong.
Prigozhin says one thing, the brigade commander of the 72nd Omsbr says another. Watch his video message

[1erWahrheitsMinister_1984]

Wer ehrlich ist muss zugeben, dass Shoigu bisher auf ganzer
Line versagt hat! Auch mich hat das enttäuscht und überrascht!

Angefangen mit der dramatischen Unterschätzung der Kräfte der
Ukraine und anderen von Prigochin zu Recht immer wieder
kritisierten Entscheidungen! Ich kann deshalb voll und ganz
verstehen, dass er überhaupt keine Lust hat, sich einem eher
zweitklassigen Kommandeur auch noch unterzuordnen...!!

Putin hat bei der nach meiner Meinung künstlichen Verknappung
der Munition bereits zweimal persönlich zu Gunsten der Gruppe
Wagner und Prigochin interveniert und wird dies meinung
nach auch ein weiteres mal tun, wenn es erforderlich werden
sollte...!!
Trotzdem kann es SO einfach nicht mehr länger weiter gehen!!

Präsident Wladimir Putin muss einmal mehr ein Machtwort sprechen
und ein für alle mal klarstellen, dass er derartig fahrlässiges und höchst
unprofessionelles Verhalten keineswegs noch länger dulden wird!!

Die Gruppe Wagner und ihr kampferfahrener Anführer sind für den
Krieg den Russland führen muss zu wichtig, als das man persönliche
Ressentiments der obersten Armeeführung weiter dulden kann...!!
Außerdem darf man nicht vergessen, dass gerade die Gruppe
Wagner viele Fehler von Shoigu "ausbügeln" musste und Shoigu
dafür eigentlich dankbar sein müsste, anstatt auch noch die beleidigte
Leberwurst zu spielen...!!!!!

Wie sich hier General Gerassimow einordnet kann ich ehrlich gesagt
nicht einschätzen, aber wenn Shoigu SO weiter macht, muss er bald
gehen bzw. ersetzt werden...!!!

[Reindeer]

Prigozhin will certainly amaze me when he starts fighting not for money. I suspect that this is what he is denying here ... But in general - this is correct, probably, PMCs should be PMCs proper.

[Sumotori_380]

PMCs in the states, for example, do not perform the functions of assault infantry

[Tryams]

Those. wanted - connected, no - no.
Private is private, like a private power plant, but it is subordinate, and not in itself.
So it should be here - drive yourself, but within the framework of a common system.

Fz what they actually have. But how is this happening?

Deputy Dmitry Utkin ("Wagner") "Lotos" arrived in Bakhmut and agreed with the units of the RF Armed Forces to hold a meeting of junior commanders, where the "Wagners" would share their experience.

yourself? Or does the MOD arrange for them to share their experience for the common good and common goals?

[Skorin]

Prigozhin is well aware that if his structure comes under the auspices of Shoigu, the latter will do everything to multiply Wagner by zero after all the graters between them in Syria and the Donbass. And the way to wear out any unit with frontal attacks or something else in combat conditions is easy. It is interesting to know the position of the GDP regarding the initiative of the Ministry of Defense in relation to Wagner.

[sadam2]

Do you think such an initiative cost Vova. ? Shoigu will not take a step without him. It's time for Vova to drain the Cook.
Will sign ... but where to go ... otherwise they will disappear.
They never got any legal status.

[RED_ICE]

The answer of the commander of the 72nd motorized rifle brigade of the Russian Federation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xUzfz7H3mAI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fyastatic.net%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo

[Victorio]

Quote: RED_ICE

The answer of the commander of the 72nd motorized rifle brigade of the Russian Federation:

===
this drunkard was never planted?

[PVV66]

Prigogine praised the professional qualities of Surovikin and Shoigu with Gerasimov. If he signs a contract, the latter will eat him. And so he is independent of the Ministry of Defense in terms of leadership, and can send if the order is, to put it mildly, stupid and unprofessional.

[Tryams]

Prigogine praised the professional qualities of Surovikin and Shoigu with Gerasimov. If he signs a contract, the latter will eat him.

you forgot something, he himself praises Surovikin) Although he yelled at the Moscow Defense Ministry for air defense of Moscow (which is also under Surovikin’s control) - well, it’s excusable for Prigozhin not to know such details))

[PVV66]

Read carefully, I wrote that Prigozhin gave an assessment to prof. qualities. It's not for me to judge what rating.

[glk63]

Some kind of madness ... Some kind of "PMC" is trying to dictate something to the MO ... Lived ...

[AC130 Gunship]

And it actually dictates nothing to anyone. In PMCs, the first word is "private"

[nov_tech.vrn]

The Ministry of Defense drags its point of view not by washing, so by skating, everyone who is in uniform is an army, although it is not at all funny when employees of their law enforcement agencies with special ranks are called to ordinary positions. We just need amendments to the law on passage and the law on the status of military personnel, where to specifically prescribe all the issues of protecting our country with weapons in their hands and subordination, well, or separate laws regulating all these issues, moreover, about terrorist defense and the militia, this is one thing, and about PMCs, these are clearly different .

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Quote: nov_tech.vrn

everyone in uniform is an army, although it’s not at all funny when employees of their law enforcement agencies with special ranks are called to ordinary positions

Apparently, not "them", but "from"? But, excuse me, how else? Throughout the world, police ranks are not converted into military ranks (with the exception, perhaps, of initially paramilitary structures such as the French gendarmerie). Do you think a lieutenant of the American police can enter the army in the same rank? The tsarist policemen even had a parallel system of insignia - shoulder straps for an army rank, cords for a policeman.

Another question is whether it is worth conscripting employees into the army at all. Looking at the fury with which these employees mobilized both in our country and in Ukraine they grabbed hard workers and plankton, I think: it’s worth it.

[MeVED]

about PMCs - these are clearly different

So far, mercenarism is prohibited by law in Russia. Therefore, before the SVO, they spoke about PMCs shyly. But the scale of actions was not the same, and there was no such urgent need for PMCs. Now we have flexible approaches, as it is fashionable to say now Agile methods. It is quite obvious that Wagner called Vladimir Vladimirovich, since the MO screwed up and the situation was close to failure. Apparently, now there is confidence in the future.

[Victorio]

According to him, the units of the Ministry of Defense are not able to effectively carry out their tasks precisely because of the commanders who do not have the necessary knowledge.
===
Prigogine himself, oh, what military knowledge he possesses.

[nov_tech.vrn]

He knows how to listen to others, those who have the relevant knowledge and experience and are not eager to become commanders, just an administrator

[AC130 Gunship]

The usual "Uncle Vasya" for no reason at all cannot create a private army of many thousands, which will also be supplied by the Ministry of Defense with various weapons. This project has specific people "very at the top", and there is simply a process going on to exclude individuals from the position of a possible successor.

[A009]

A strange discussion in the comments. If the Defense Ministry had performed the task entrusted to them in full and with high quality, then they would not have had to involve PMCs. They would have sat in Africa and done their work there. But the Ministry of Defense, at a certain point, did not cope. Moreover, the situation could worsen like an avalanche. I do not think that any of the members of the forum will begin to deny this. We began to gather everyone who can help. And take extraordinary measures to stabilize the situation at the front (conscription of prisoners). Was Wagner up to his task? Did it. In what ways, at what cost? Well, the question needs to be sorted out, but in the future. And now they want to drive them into the framework of the organization which, sorry, but greatly exaggerated its capabilities. And the opinion about the ability to wage war turned out to be completely divorced from reality. The incompetence of individual high stars is very noticeable. Someone will dispute? Many here have military experience and many officers. Then a reasonable question is WHY break something that works. Yes, it does not report directly to you, but to whom does it obey, whose orders (orders, requests) does it fulfill? performs. Effective? Definitely. Why switch to your command, which, well, really, does not correspond to the modern concept and methods of warfare. (Even a year after the start!) Why break such a system? Is it not perfect? ​​-Most likely yes. But let's fix it AFTER the war. And not now, when PMCs are very useful at the front.

[Tryams]

Was Wagner up to his task? Did it.

what is the task? Artemovsk? Was he given this task?

[Victorio]

Quote: Tryams

Was Wagner up to his task? Did it.

what is the task? Artemovsk? Was he given this task?

===
Well, not on his own, did Wagner take up positions there and begin to storm Artemovsk? or so - money for a barrel, and we take Artemovsk?

[Tryams]

Well, here's the question. He's also a private person. I also look at the opinions of the "enemy". There is also a mountain of balabols, but it is useful for objectivity, VIDEO is here (5 days ago):

 Show / Hide text

and by the way, he really is not. days ago he shouted about the catastrophe in the Zaporozhye direction, and a couple of days later he was already praising.

but today

Deputy Dmitry Utkin ("Wagner") "Lotos" arrived in Bakhmut and agreed with the units of the RF Armed Forces to hold a meeting of junior commanders, where the "Wagners" would share their experience.

Me: By yourself? Or does the MOD arrange for them to share their experience for the common good and common goals? (well, as he wanted "for the good of the country")

All this is strange.

and here in the next topic about a similar

Russian troops knocked out units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Neskuchne in the South-Donetsk direction
"The thing is that Neskuchnoye is located very inconvenient for defense, as it is located in the LOWER."

[Reindeer]

So after all, there was a contract (with everything, including the amount of ammunition agreed by both parties).

[Tryams]

Quote from Reindeer

So after all, there was a contract (with everything, including the amount of ammunition agreed by both parties).

Then now why does he say that there are no and will not be contracts with the Moscow Region?

[Reindeer]

Perhaps the contracts were not signed with the Moscow Region? O_O" Didn't that thought cross your mind? :)

[Tryams]

and with whom? O_O personally with Putin? don't be secret, tell me

[Bear]

Are you sure that PMCs were attracted to the Donbass, precisely because of the inability of the Moscow Region to cope with its tasks. Or maybe look at it from a different angle. Like an alternative to the "ossified" administrative apparatus of the Moscow Region, in order to bring "fresh blood" to the leaders, not Prigozhin, of course, but Surovikin.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Quote: A009

But the Ministry of Defense, at a certain point, did not cope. Moreover, the situation could worsen like an avalanche. I do not think that any of the members of the forum will begin to deny this. We began to gather everyone who can help. And take extraordinary measures to stabilize the situation at the front (conscription of prisoners). Was Wagner up to his task? Did it.

That the MO failed became clear in March, when the blitzkrieg failed. Then they resorted to the help of the Wagners, but they did not correct the situation. Because they were thrown into the same banzai attacks as regular troops and LDNR policemen. With about the same result. And the enemy then did not particularly distinguish them from others (but singled out the people's militia of pre-February endurance, which then had not yet lost the experience of "eight years" and the motivation to die, but to go forward).

And during the shameful spring, the Wagners also did not save the situation. The Ukrainian offensive died down as the small accumulated forces were exhausted, and only then the Great Bakhmut Assault began. For which all Russian and LDNR forces worked - both with resources and with blood. The Wagners did not stabilize the front, they only pecked their foreheads at one section of the already stabilized (not by them) front.

[Storog dvornik]

Darlings scold - amuse themselves ... "The struggle of the Nanai boys" ... Do not piss ....

[Svetlana Kuznetsova]

If the MO does not correspond to the "musicians", a separate structure should be created to resolve delicate issues with subordination to the supreme commander in chief.

[Brother]

That's right... the mercenaries dictate the terms. This is "normal" for Russia. Hmm .... there are countries where there is a mafia. The Russian mafia has a country for the last 30 years.
The army through the efforts and orders "from above" as an institution! the academy for the defense of their country was destroyed in due time from the beginning by the Chief Specialist in Military SCIENCE! and the ability to fight Serdyukov! Then another "specialist" got down to business

Amateurism - its own to the board supports the one who is in power and "bablosiki" ... the main vector of development of the Russian Armed Forces.
Well, the "musicians" and the right thing, these, and even with experience, real GOOD experience in combat operations, a pocket army of the battalion-regiment level and will do EVERYTHING you order. For money. No conscience, no flag, no patriotism is needed.
The logic of the current "authority", sadly "specialists" of the level of Chubais in honor.

[dementor873]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: dementor873

For me, it’s better to let Wagner go into direct subordination to Putin for every fireman, like amusing regiments under Peter 1.

So Tsar Peter was on the battlefield and was aware of what was happening ... Are you sure that Putin has reliable information about the situation in the zone of the NWO? I'm not sure!
And yet ... What is Putin's experience in conducting a database? In what battles did his leadership talent manifest itself?
* * *
But Prigogine can be understood. This person is accustomed to receiving a specific task, forces and means for its implementation. And to receive the EBCU from a leader who cannot curb the whims of his own daughter while leading the NWO is extremely imprudent ...

Under his roof, no one will run into him, fit into the structures of the Defense Ministry, delay the supply of ammunition, disband his units.

[Evgeny_Sviridenko]

There is no legal status for various PMCs all over the world. And where there are any laws, PMCs successfully circumvent them. That is why they are created (and taken out of the legal field) in order to successfully and quickly resolve issues that bureaucratized state structures do not solve quickly and efficiently enough. The whole situation with Wagner that has developed with the Moscow Region looks, of course, ugly. To allow and bring all this into the light of God, to the delight of the enemies, was not worth it. The enemy draws the conclusion that in the foundation of the "power vertical" there are not such frail cracks, confusion and vacillations.

[Tryams]

Isn't the PMC in the USA under a contract with the Pentagon?

[ODERVIT]

Another reason to recall that the leadership of the Moscow Region "gathered"
so-so uncle. Maybe it is, or maybe it isn't.
But how many of us, participating in the discussion and indignant, read the full text of the order of the Moscow Region? What is the availability of this document? Something tells me it won't be on the internet. It is possible that there is no mention of PMCs in it, but volunteers in the Defense Ministry, having signed a contact, receive all the benefits, what's wrong with that?

[RuAbel]

The question is, will the Moscow Region sign a contract with Wagner after all Prigozhin's PR moves?
I do not belittle the merits of the musicians, but Prigogine did everything, and even more, so that the General Staff swore to have nothing to do with them.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Quote: Thrifty

And what do the Wagnerites have to do with the army? By signing a contract, they will be equated to an ordinary military unit, naturally, it automatically excludes their use for which the company was created and work was created outside of Russia. The Moscow Region will not introduce Wagner as a structure into those organizations that can be used outside of Russia. And the use of Wagnerians outside the country in this case can only be short-term, and CONORD itself concludes contracts with one or another state in the same Africa to perform certain tasks on favorable terms for Wagner. So they are doing the right thing, with the MO they can conclude a short-term contract without an extension for further participation in their own, which will not suit both parties. So everything stays the same...

They have nothing to do with the MO: they carry out orders from certain business groups and do such work that the MO cannot take on. Consider also Prigozhin's relationship with GDP. If MO needs the Orchestra, they eat it, and he; wangyu: more will be needed.

[Lako]

Something like that already happened somewhere. I remembered-PMC Mishka Yaponchik and Nestor Makhno in the Red Army. Everyone knows how it ended. And here everything seems to develop according to the law of the genre. You can see walking on a rake, this is an old Russian fun. It is hardly possible to imagine anything similar in the Great Patriotic War or in present-day Belarus. If there is no "king" in the Kremlin, "kings" appear in the regions and the army. In Russia, rebels are loved, who cares if anyone is against the authorities. Let us remember the huge crowds of people who lifted the eternally boozy Yeltsin to the throne. Judging by the comments, the national hero is maturing again. Well, go for it, the rake is laid.

[ASM]

I respect Prigozhin's decision, because I don't like the Abakansky secretary myself.

[VladimirNET]

Quote: Borik

This means that problems with the supply of ammunition will begin again.

Why would I:
1) Shoigu - put against the wall, with execution for helping the enemy.
2) if the situation repeats, then Gerasimova.

If there are fools in the RF Ministry of Defense (which is obvious from the success of the SVO):
I fully agree with Prigozhin - it is impossible (there is NO SUCH POSSIBILITY): to carry out criminal orders that will lead to the defeat of Russia, all the more "for money" (which the contract gives).

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Quote: VladimirNET

Why would I:
1) Shoigu - put against the wall, with execution for helping the enemy.

He should have been put up against the wall already in March 2022 for many years of creating an incredible army. But he has not been removed from his post even now. And this means that the questions are no longer for Shoigu, but for the person who keeps him so stubbornly in office.

[Negro]

Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel

He should have been put up against the wall already in March 2022 for many years of creating an incredible army

I do not understand the claims against Shoigu. He was set to do it beautifully, without changing anything - he made you the second army of the world from Mr. and sticks of crossed out zircons and tank biathlons. There, the stool was pulling something in the direction of the modern army, whether it was bad or good, - he barely left, his woman went to prison. Who needs it, you ask?

You are demanding that we replace Kozlov with someone like Hindenburg. But this Hindenburg will have tanks (27ombsr) right behind the Moscow Ring Road, Teply Stan metro station. And two more divisions in the region, Kantemirovskaya and Tamanskaya.

Think about it.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

Quote: Negro

There, the stool was pulling something in the direction of the modern army, whether it was bad or good, - he barely left, his woman went to prison.

It seems to me rather strange to assume that Serdyukov was simply put in a chair to sit, and he spontaneously and unexpectedly began military reform, and even managed to continue it for several years. This has never happened before in the entire world. The very choice of a retired minister for the role of minister already speaks volumes. For all the distance from military realities, even Putin could not help but understand that the ordinary Invincible and Legendary gentlemen of the officers would not only hate (this is what the intellectuals can do), but also see through. That is, it was specially set to shake everything up (and judging by the howl that stood in the swamps, it turned out perfectly).

But why he was removed and why it was Shoigu who was put in his place - this, as they say, "we will not know soon." Shoigu is generally a mysterious person. It seems that the only one from the current clip who was in the clip back in the USSR.

[Karl123]

it looks like the prigozhina was pressed. soon a bomb will fall on him like on Dudayev

[NotPetya]

it looks like the prigozhina was pressed. soon a bomb will fall on him like on Dudayev

He got up too fast and crossed the road for a lot of people. Now he will need the help of one of the towers of the Kremlin, otherwise, as you say, they will undress, kill and forget.
But judging by his brash answers, he is not very worried. Apparently sure that his back is covered.

[AdAstra]

Did they also take a sip of mythyl cider in mo, or what, why should the employees of the LLC sign any contracts with them? Here is a contract between two entities if possible.

[NotPetya]

Prigozhin was offered to become either the head of the region, or to head some state structure.

We publish a comment by Evgeny Prigozhin:
“There is a proverb in Rus': it is better to die a hero than to live as a faggot. Therefore, it is better to die for the Motherland than to drag out your existence in a bureaucratic chain.”

https://t.me/concordgroup_official/1196

[NotPetya]

Honestly, I don't understand.
Wrote news on Prigogine in the comments.
He gave a link to Prigozhin's press service, which means it's not fake and not IPSO.
But I'm being downvoted.
Put it, of course, but explain at least someone why you put them?

[oleg_627]

Prigozhin confirmed that the PMC obeys Putin’s orders and the defense of the country. Putin, as commander-in-chief, could personally issue such an order. But Shoigu and the generals issued it and announced it, and therefore the PMC immediately took it with hostility. They just want to subdue and possibly disband or some other actions. Although the structure is good, it is possible, as a special detachment led by a general loyal to the PMC, to use them on any sector of the front as an independent structure, but the generals are afraid of a lot of people who will move into such units

[NotPetya]

Putin, as commander in chief, could personally issue such an order, but it was issued by Shoigu with the generals

Too chaotically written, let me clarify?
Based on your assumptions, Shoigu's orders are not coordinated with Putin?
Or vice versa, can you spit on them, since Putin is silent?
It just seems to me that at this level, they nevertheless agree with each other .....

[Void]

According to the last phrase, it becomes clear that Putin or one of his entourage is in charge of PMCs

[point]

And how can it be understood otherwise, except that the president personally (in this case, not the commander-in-chief) is behind allowing prisoners to go to work for a private trader instead of serving a sentence by a court verdict?!
Moreover, the indistinct legal framework for PMCs and confusion with the naming of the first person - this is all specifically about one thing: they are not going to explain the essence of the phenomenon because they are not, but only the guarantor of all Rus' can afford this. I do not see anything shady in this position, because it reveals in a new way the content of the Russian autocracy, i.e. independent government inherent in our population in the historical perspective.

[ddmitrij]

Buy someone a mobile phone for Prigozhin. Let him solve issues by phone, not in Telegram. And then some kind of Western. All for show.

[point]

I would like to understand what the director of the Ministry of Emergency Situations was guided by when offering this to foreign employees - I am at a loss.

[Rage66]

I'm already tired of reading these "kitchen showdowns" ... We found the time

[Alister kroulegg]

How does Wagner pay its employees 50% more than they pay in the Moscow Region? I can imagine what fantastic sums are being poured into this PMC from the budget

[abc_alex]

Those who began to defend Prigozhin in his actual rebellion, do you understand that now in Ukraine, under his leadership, there is an ILLEGAL armed formation, equipped with the latest technology? Prigozhin is literally saved from criminal liability by a legal conflict: his PMC does not operate on the territory of the Russian Federation. Do you understand that Prigozhin now insists on the actual subordination of these people exclusively to himself? Do you understand that this phrase of his

Those orders and decrees that Shoigu forms, they apply to employees of the Ministry of Defense and to military personnel. PMC "Wagner" will not sign any contracts with Shoigu

Means that he claims exclusively PERSONAL control of his army. And the fact that he will PERSONALLY determine which order and from whom the PMC will execute it, and which one will not? Do you understand that just as he is now, he is ready to carry out Putin’s orders, just as tomorrow he can begin to carry out the orders of Biden or Zelensky, if he suddenly decides that at some point their orders are in line with Russia’s interests?
I think you don’t understand what an epic ass Prigogine is driving his fighters into now. Situation: the second “Artyomovsk” happens with heavy protracted battles. Ukraine is completely built up with such “Artemovsk” buildings, either here or not, it’s so easy here. And Prigozhin again issues another “ultimatum to Shoigu,” threatening to withdraw the fighters to “defend Belgorod.” And as soon as they cross the border of the Russian Federation, they will become criminals, an illegal armed group, a gang. And in the worst case scenario, the Defense Ministry will be forced to simply destroy Wagner PMC. Physically. Simply because the existence of a military unit uncontrolled by anyone on the territory of Ukraine is one thing, but for Russia, where there is a clear hierarchy of security forces, and where the memory of what the emergence of illegal armed groups and “field commanders” leads to is still fresh, such a situation is not acceptable basically. The first thing that needs to be done is to immediately disarm the yoke, which will inevitably lead to conflict. It would probably be a good idea to immediately transfer them somewhere to Syria and kick the US soldiers out of the oil fields. But will their honor Prigogine want to carry out such an order? And in general, would he personally want to take the post of Supreme Commander-in-Chief? In our history there was the same dashing warrior named Kolchak. Noted for many useful and glorious deeds for the glory of Russia. But in politics, like Prigozhin, he was no boom-boom. That’s why he remained in people’s memory as a bloody executioner. Is no one afraid of such a scenario now? Does everyone really believe Prigozhin so sincerely? Who knew anything about him until recently?

[Alexey Z]

How did Putin appear? Did anyone know him? He wasn't much of a politician either.

[Moneron]

you read the comments from readers and are amazed. as if people had not lived more than 30 years under capitalism.
"Wagner" is a private Russian company that provides security services around the world..... does not officially exist in Russia, ... and is not prohibited.... which means it has the go-ahead from the very top. Apparently, at the request of that top, it was temporarily redeployed to the Ukrainian theater of military operations. showed excellent training in battles.
and now “effective managers” are trying to “squeeze” a thriving company from defense..... at worst, they are trying to crush it under themselves in order to write victorious reports attributing all the “goodies”.
to myself.
any ordinary employee of a private company enters into an agreement with her... and suddenly a big guy comes and demands an additional contract with himself.... especially if you have already dealt with this guy before...
any sane man will say: "fuck you... uncle!!!" and he will be right.

[ivan2022]

So what, Wagner doesn’t enter into an agreement with anyone at all? How is that?

Just two big and very kind guys - Supreme and Prigozhin - agreed to “defend Russia” with their pocket money? Should all the generals appointed by the same Supreme Commander be sent to hell?
Chekhov Anton Pavlovich with his "Ward number 6" - just relaxing.

[Uma palata]

Quote: peshik

And who will set these tasks for them if they ignore the Ministry of Defense - Putin personally ?, through Surovikin? Maybe then they will not continue to participate in the NWO at all?

Judging by the large number of minuses and dislikes, the local readers rudely did not support your opinion, but also rejected it. And me too.

[DimchiK]

Quote: swzero

I would give volunteers to Wagner

And who will come to him except those deprived and those in default on loans?

[Uma palata]

Quote: Alister Kroulegg

How does Wagner pay its employees 50% more than they pay in the Moscow Region? I can imagine what fantastic sums are being poured into this PMC from the budget

So go and fight with the Wagners, and look what you get from this money.

[I dare to_notice_]

So it won’t take long to get to Khovanshchina...

[Warrior_II_digit]

Strelkov's comment:

And this is already a military rebellion, if you call a spade a spade.

Source: https://t.me/strelkovii/5379

[Artyom Savin]

Quote: abc_alex

his PMC does not operate on the territory of the Russian Federation

Oh how. As I understand it, Bakhmut/Artemovsk is not located in the L/DPR, which State Duma parliamentarians decided to accept into the Russian Federation (yes, I know, I’m holding back my laughter), along with Zaporozhye and Kherson. Are there any signs of criminal activity here? I see public calls for actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation here.

[Wayfarer_2]

I don’t think it is necessary to refuse to sign a contract with the Russian Defense Ministry under the pretext of unwillingness to obey Shoigu. Obviously, we must first study the draft of this contract. Perhaps there is no provision for direct subordination. It may be possible to conclude a contract taking into account your conditions. For example, about supplies and interaction between military units of the RF Ministry of Defense. About responsibility for "set-ups". Why not?

[TwilightElf]

yes yes... and the most important point of that “contract” is the impossibility of terminating it... while the database is being maintained... and up to 65 years old)) by age. a great prospect...for some.

[pathnuty]

Quote: Blackgrifon

Spanish shame...

We say it's a shame! And switch to Pushkin’s language, albeit through Google translator.

[dump22]

Prigozhin will apparently soon repeat the fate of the commander of the 2nd Cavalry Mironov (the legendary “Kuzmich”).
He also managed to quarrel with Trotsky and Stalin and Voroshilov at the same time.

[odisey3000]

It’s a strange statement that we will fight, but only on our own, this shouldn’t happen simply because it shouldn’t happen at all. Only the Russian army is fighting, the rest are helping it as best they can, that’s the way it was and that’s how it should be, the rest is just Makhnovshchina and complete chaos Just like a cutesy girl, you can’t behave like that, especially since Prigozhin positions himself as a statesman. They don’t want to, some kind of word during the war is wrong. Send them back to Africa or disarm and disperse them. They just shouldn’t end up in the Northern Military District zone anymore and Mr. Prigozhin will again go to St. Petersburg to sell pies.

[224VP_MO_RF]

"independent government administration inherent in our population in a historical perspective" independent of the people