Some details of the fall of the Russian Su-34 bomber and several other aircraft in the Bryansk region are reported

246
Some details of the fall of the Russian Su-34 bomber and several other aircraft in the Bryansk region are reported

Various sources report details of the fall of a Russian Su-34 bomber and several other aircraft in the Bryansk region. The crew of the plane was killed.

The first information was received about the MI-8, then about the Su-34. Another similar helicopter and a Su-25 attack aircraft (according to other sources, a Su-35 fighter) were also shot down. Russian aircraft with a high degree of probability was hit by missiles launched from the territory of the Chernihiv region. But the version that saboteurs acted from the territory of the Bryansk region is also not excluded. Therefore, Operation Interception has been declared here.



The crash site of the Su-34 was discovered by local residents near the border. Also, there were details of the fall of the Mi-8 helicopter. Unfortunately, his crew died. A 51-year-old woman was injured in the fall of the wreckage of the car. She received burns. It is not yet known about the condition of the victim, who is being treated by doctors.

The accident itself was watched by many, as it was clearly visible from the territory of the local market.

The mayor of Klintsy, Sergey Evteev, stated that there was no damage caused by the fall of the helicopter wreckage. Soon, local residents clarified this information in social networks. They reported damage to several houses by falling debris. The same is true for emergency services. The wreckage was scattered at a great distance from each other.

A large crater formed at the site of the fall of the car itself. The fall also caused a fire in the forest.




Footage of the wreckage of the aircraft indicates that an air-to-air missile could have been used. At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.
246 comments
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  1. +40
    13 May 2023 16: 35
    Wow! What is it? am
    There are no words!
    There are no words! am
    1. +24
      13 May 2023 16: 40
      The main thing is to understand what weapons the enemy uses. After all, they can repeat it in other areas.
      1. +2
        13 May 2023 17: 17
        Most likely they used IRIS-T SLM with illumination of the air situation from a remote source.
      2. +46
        13 May 2023 17: 28
        It turns out 4 cars in one day in one place? Wow preparation operation.
      3. +18
        13 May 2023 20: 12
        GDP match
        Your comment text is too short
        1. -1
          13 May 2023 20: 25
          The people are minus, so this alignment of affairs suits you?
          But I'm for a tougher option, but this is not with our supreme leadership, unfortunately IMHO
      4. -7
        14 May 2023 00: 22
        Well, we also don’t seem to be sitting with idols, maybe they get hurt in the head first, but they immediately start scratching their turnips and thinking what to do. Well, they will repeat a couple of times, I don’t think that it will be possible to get out for a long time. For every cunning nut with a right-hand thread, there is a bolt with a left-hand thread. It rather plays a role that definitely prepared and studied for a long time, and then hit it. Our main thing is to study this feint as soon as possible and work out measures. I'm sure they're studying. The main thing is to send more drones and mopeds there, sooner or later the toffees will give themselves away.
        1. 0
          15 May 2023 10: 30
          Not idols, but who? The last fool, already in April 2022, it was clear that everything was going to hell. And not idols for a year say that according to the plan.
      5. +2
        14 May 2023 09: 11
        and will definitely repeat! this is a war against the Russians for complete destruction
    2. +84
      13 May 2023 16: 42
      Hmm, here's an enemy without aviation and air defense. Questions to the Moscow Region increase every day, when will we start to beat the enemy, and not stroke?
      1. -20
        13 May 2023 16: 49
        Just do not stroke, but just SHIT ...
      2. +34
        13 May 2023 16: 49
        Questions to the Moscow Region increase every day, when will we start to beat the enemy, and not stroke?

        At this rate, there will be nothing to beat soon. And vsukam on the contrary, friends are supplying more and more.
        1. +40
          13 May 2023 17: 08
          Military correspondents about a week ago sounded the alarm that one bad person with very large shoulder straps demanded that the flight crew fly at high altitude and not engage in "air hooliganism." In general, he earned the hero of Ukraine. Actually this version will be confirmed. Our weakness is in ourselves.
          1. -8
            13 May 2023 17: 12
            Quote: ZhEK-Vodogrey
            one bad man with very large shoulder straps demanded that the flight crew fly at high altitude and not engage in "air hooliganism"

            Who is this, why don't I know where to read?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +3
            13 May 2023 17: 45
            He wrote unconditionally about the 11th Army of the Air Force and Air Defense. About the flight safety service, up to contacting counterintelligence.
          3. +1
            13 May 2023 21: 35
            Just on the video of the downing of MI-8, he was walking quite high
          4. +10
            13 May 2023 23: 15
            And who is in charge of the VKS? General Surovikin. He, of course, is a hero and a master of difficult decisions, and even a multi-machine operator - in addition to the leadership of the Aerospace Forces, he is also the deputy commander of the group (and was the commander), and something like a full-time Wagner lobbyist, but he is a purely land general. So we see - how he manages to lead aviation. Soon we won’t have it at all, then the ground commander at the head of this type of aircraft will be completely in place - the survivors will go to the infantry and go to fight.
          5. 0
            14 May 2023 09: 24
            It's not very clear yet.
            If MANPADS hit, then it was necessary at high altitude. And if the air defense system is at ultra-small.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +31
        13 May 2023 17: 21
        Questions to MO are increasing every day,
        And there is also a longtime commander. Silent as usual.
      5. +5
        13 May 2023 22: 44
        For 20 years, a lot of financial resources have been exported from the country to the West!!! That's why they can't hit!
      6. -4
        14 May 2023 00: 25
        Do you need a lot for such an action?)) One or two surviving systems. Just hide them, study possible holes, which in any case cannot be closed, because it will be extremely expensive, well, hit them. Which they did. It is unlikely that there will be enough for serious opposition - from our side, too, not done with a finger. But in any case, it’s not worth standing still and snapping your beak, you need to scout and take out this toffee of theirs to hell.
      7. -2
        15 May 2023 00: 58
        What to beat then? Artillery with a nuclear warhead?
    3. Maz
      +28
      13 May 2023 16: 45
      It is reported that the crew members of all planes and helicopters shot down today in the Bryansk region, unfortunately, died.
      According to preliminary information, the helicopters lost in the sky of the Bryansk region were Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopters with Rychag-AV active jamming stations installed on board.

      The Rychag-AV complexes were created to interfere with the guidance stations of air defense systems and enemy aircraft, preventing the use of anti-aircraft and aircraft missiles at a distance of more than a hundred kilometers. However, today the Mi-8MTPR-1 turned out to be too close to the border.

      Most likely, the EW helicopters were engaged in providing the strike of the Su-34 bomber with bombs from the UMPC on the next target in the Chernihiv region, and the Su-35 fighter covered.
      1. +6
        13 May 2023 16: 54
        Quote: Maz

        According to preliminary information, the helicopters lost in the sky of the Bryansk region were Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopters with Rychag-AV active jamming stations installed on board.
        .

        This is serious ... what
        1. +24
          13 May 2023 17: 33
          Quote: Maz
          According to preliminary information, the helicopters lost in the sky of the Bryansk region were Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopters with Rychag-AV active jamming stations installed on board.

          Quote: Lech from Android.
          This is serious ...

          Of course, seriously - as of the beginning of 2023, there were only 8 helicopters in the Russian Air Force Mi-1MTPR-20 with the Rychag-AV complex installed on board (whose performance characteristics are a state secret). The loss of 10% of one type of weapon in one day is even more than serious.
        2. -1
          15 May 2023 10: 32
          When you are fighting on 70 vehicles ready against a modern army, it is not surprising.
      2. 0
        13 May 2023 17: 31
        Quote: Maz
        The Rychag-AV complexes were created to interfere with the guidance stations of air defense systems and enemy aircraft, preventing the use of anti-aircraft and aircraft missiles at a distance of more than a hundred kilometers. However, today the Mi-8MTPR-1 turned out to be too close to the border.

        Most likely, the EW helicopters were engaged in providing the strike of the Su-34 bomber with bombs from the UMPC on the next target in the Chernihiv region, and the Su-35 fighter covered.

        What the hell are you writing?
        The helicopter flies 70 km from the border at an altitude of 400 meters. Is it too close?
        SU-34 crashed near the border. there is no more information about height and location.
        There is nothing at all about the downed SU-35, which, according to your version, covered whom there. neither the place of the fall nor the height of the flight.
        1. +9
          13 May 2023 18: 10
          It is written in Russian Spring: https://rusvesna.su/news/1683985675
          Do not throw accusations of writing here.
        2. +3
          13 May 2023 23: 18
          The helicopter flies 70 km from the border at an altitude of 400 meters. Is it too close?

          As it turned out - deadly close.
      3. 0
        14 May 2023 06: 28
        And this is a question, weren't the turntables just an evacuation group?
      4. -1
        14 May 2023 19: 53
        Quote: Maz
        and the Su-35 fighter covered.
        From whom to cover? According to the Ministry of Defense, all Soviet-made aircraft of the entire European part (with the exception of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus) were destroyed a long time ago.
        In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 424 aircraft, 231 helicopters ... 421 anti-aircraft missile systems have been destroyed
        (report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation of 13.05.2023)
    4. +13
      13 May 2023 16: 50
      Probably there was a green line or a green corridor. Before the operation, they seemed to advertise systems for protecting against enemy air defense systems. And the drones of the outskirts did not fly in vain. They probed our defense system. Our military-industrial complex will not be able to supply aircraft at such a pace as they are shot down. Yes, even from abroad, as on the outskirts, we are unlikely to acquire.
    5. Maz
      +17
      13 May 2023 16: 57
      The enemy ambushed and was able to shoot down an entire special air group in the Bryansk region
      - According to the latest data, the enemy still launched surface-to-air missiles with air defense systems, pulled up close to the border. Before that, typical actions of our aviation were calculated. After a massive launch, some of the missiles were able to shoot down our air defense systems, but 4 missiles broke through ...
      - Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopters with Rychag-AV active jamming stations - used to jam enemy air defense and air defense systems, their task is to interfere with attacks of anti-aircraft and aircraft missiles at a distance of more than 150 km. But today EW helicopters were sent too close to the border...
      - Apparently, the Mi-8MTPR-1 covered the attacks of the Su-34 bomber with "smart bombs" on enemy targets in the Chernihiv region, and the Su-35 fighter provided air cover. Earth down our dead.
      1. +7
        14 May 2023 09: 13
        And where does the information come from that "some of the missiles were able to shoot down our air defense systems"?
      2. -1
        15 May 2023 06: 06
        Maybe the patriot works? Who knows?
    6. -3
      13 May 2023 22: 13
      Wow! What is it? am
      There are no words!
      There are no words! am
      This is a war, son, and anything can happen in a war, not only victories, but defeats
  2. +25
    13 May 2023 16: 36
    Hero of the Soviet Union, General Kopets, after the defeat of his air units by the GERMANS, shot himself ...

    I'm not hinting at anything and I'm not calling ... I'm just stating ...

    By the way, the guards have an excellent argument: Stalin won, but this is all nonsense ... we will set up a bunch more planes, and we will plant Tajiks to manage ... well, or a carpenter ...
    1. -1
      13 May 2023 16: 43
      Quote: Nikolay310
      Hero of the Soviet Union, General Kopets, after the defeat of his air units by the GERMANS, shot himself ...

      I'm not hinting at anything and I'm not calling ... I'm just stating ...

      By the way, the guards have an excellent argument: Stalin won, but this is all nonsense ... we will set up a bunch more planes, and we will plant Tajiks to manage ... well, or a carpenter ...

      Maybe you still say how the enemy shot down our planes ...
      1. +5
        13 May 2023 16: 51
        They will say, they will definitely say, but after several worthless careerist scum posing as the military command of the Russian Federation, they self-destruct!
    2. +40
      13 May 2023 16: 48
      It seems to me that if we now catch Tajiks and Uzbeks from the streets and imprison them and lead our Ministry of Defense, then the results will be strictly positive. Not because they know how to do something, but because I don’t understand what MO does at all. I strongly doubt that migrants have accounts and relatives in NATO countries.
      1. +21
        13 May 2023 18: 55
        Quote from alexoff
        but because I don’t understand what MO does at all.

        I don’t understand what they have been doing since 2014, and even more so now. I have only one suggestion - a tumor of betrayal struck the highest echelons of power.
    3. -21
      13 May 2023 17: 35
      Don't talk nonsense, please. On the afternoon of June 22, 1941, there was no question of any defeat of aviation, everything was just beginning then. Kopets shot himself when he saw the NKVD officers walking towards him, which means that even before the start of the Nazi attack he was very much involved in something
      1. +6
        13 May 2023 18: 45
        Kopets shot himself when he saw the NKVD officers coming towards him, which means that even before the start of the Nazi attack he was very much involved in something


        laughing
        Major General Tayursky, who was appointed instead of Kopets to the post of commander of the Air Force of the Polar Fleet, was already removed from his post and shot on July 2, 1941.
        Kopets was simply smarter than Tayursky.
  3. -41
    13 May 2023 16: 37
    What the hell are they waiting for to deploy tactical nuclear weapons?. This is the first time that a significant number of Russian planes and helicopters have been shot down, coinciding with the deployment of long-range Western missiles. Put your hands up to defend yourself, don't rush into the corner with your hands down, damn it, use tactical nukes, they'll back off. You don't even need to throw such a weapon, the moment they see that you are ready to throw them, they will run away like hell. What happened when the Cuban Missile Crisis???. They did not want to risk a nuclear war and withdrew missiles from Turkey, hell everyone should know and take this into account. The deployment and readiness to use tactical nuclear weapons is mandatory unless the United States issues an immediate order not to arm Ukraine further. Game over. The party is over. No more people should die in them than have already died. They will not risk a nuclear war for Ukraine. This is reality.
    1. +34
      13 May 2023 16: 41
      And without tactical nuclear weapons, we definitely can’t win?
      Is everything already so bad that only nuclear bombs will save the Motherland?
      1. -23
        13 May 2023 16: 47
        I am becoming more and more convinced that the use of tactical nuclear weapons is a reality. Tightening the NWO and fighting on equal terms will not lead to anything good. I have never been a supporter of Zhirinovsky, but yesterday I watched a cut of his speeches from 2014 and was shocked, 99% predicted everything correctly, and like a cherry on the cake his words that Germany and Poland will be directly drawn into the conflict from NATO, then something the bad comes in the forecasts.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +8
            13 May 2023 20: 11
            Why trifle - let's hit America right away !!! laughing
      2. +4
        13 May 2023 16: 56
        Is everything already so bad that only nuclear bombs will save the Motherland?

        It looks like it's all going to this. Even Rogozin is hinting at this.
        1. +8
          14 May 2023 11: 29
          Quote: private person
          It looks like it's all going to this. Even Rogozin is hinting at this.

          Rogozin did not shine with his mind even before being wounded, and only after he was hit in the place that he thinks, he began to carry nonsense in general.
      3. +8
        13 May 2023 17: 51
        Nuclear bombs will not save anyone. Rather the opposite.
        1. -4
          13 May 2023 18: 58
          Nuclear bombs will not save anyone. Rather the opposite.

          Everyone knows this. But they are forced to. Who will start first.
      4. -1
        13 May 2023 21: 23
        China will be the winner in this war. Russia and NATO will destroy each other. And the world will speak Chinese...
        1. 0
          14 May 2023 14: 50
          There will be no winners in this war, and few will seem to anyone, including China!
      5. 0
        15 May 2023 06: 09
        If we apply tiao. In a week in Ukraine there will be so many tyao from all over NATO + Carriers to Moscow.
    2. +11
      13 May 2023 16: 53
      This is the first time that a significant number of Russian planes and helicopters have been shot down.

      Alas, this is the first time when it was reported. To understand the objective picture, it is necessary to obtain information from various sources - and yes, even from the enemy, although they exaggerate.
  4. +10
    13 May 2023 16: 37
    These holes are the result of a hit from the striking elements of an air defense missile.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +7
        13 May 2023 16: 45
        Boniface ...... how did the air defense system drive into the Bryansk region !!!??

        No need to turn on the "fool", dear. You understand everything.
    2. +12
      13 May 2023 16: 41
      They dragged closer to the border of the air defense system, possibly imported .. Here is the result, they see the sorties of the planes, more precisely, the NATO members report
    3. -21
      13 May 2023 16: 46
      It is necessary to investigate, maybe the branches of trees struck when falling.
  5. +31
    13 May 2023 16: 39
    But how many were shot down there today? Some kind of tin. Half measures will not lead to good. The results of the partnership war on the face. Or does the Russian army really hold on to second place in the ratings only because of the presence of nuclear weapons? For a year and a half, this movement will soon subside, but one gets the impression that the front is gradually but surely moving east.
    1. +13
      13 May 2023 16: 41
      This is a repeat. Everything is the same - 2 helicopters and Su-34 are confirmed, Su-35 is not accurate
      1. -5
        13 May 2023 16: 57
        Everything is the same - 2 helicopters and Su-34 are confirmed, Su-35 is not accurate

        Not yet evening.
    2. +3
      13 May 2023 16: 46
      Quote: al3x
      But how many were shot down there today? Some kind of tin. Half measures will not lead to good. The results of the partnership war on the face. Or does the Russian army really hold on to second place in the ratings only because of the presence of nuclear weapons? For a year and a half, this movement will soon subside, but one gets the impression that the front is gradually but surely moving east.

      On the other hand, the understanding comes that the enemy was quietly tracking the flights of our aircraft and struck as always unexpectedly and strongly at a convenient moment for him.
      For the command of the Russian Aerospace Forces, science ... the enemy is cruel and insidious ... now a debriefing is needed to understand what and how happened in detail.
      1. +30
        13 May 2023 17: 00
        VKS command? Ba! Yes, this is "Armageddon" Surovikin! he is "Nedokherson".
        1. +4
          13 May 2023 20: 55
          "Polukherson" """"""
      2. +9
        13 May 2023 20: 11
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        the enemy is cruel and cunning


        A brutal and insidious downing of combat aircraft?
  6. +9
    13 May 2023 16: 45
    Here is the answer to the question why we do not destroy bridges. Now we will lose scarce aviation and pilots already over our territory. And what will happen when the APU will go forward. Who will cover our guys from the sky!!!??? Now we see the active actions of enemy air defense from the border areas. THE ENEMY IS ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD!!!
  7. +26
    13 May 2023 16: 45
    I watched an interview with Voenkor Dmitry Steshin, and everything is said there directly and honestly: "there are no tools, no will, no strength." And most importantly, the leadership has no desire ... If the military correspondents are already talking about this, then it’s scary to imagine ...
    1. +14
      13 May 2023 16: 52
      Is this the same Steshin clown who declassed the Hymars three days ago? Well, yes, a very valuable character ...

      Although even if such protection begins to see clearly, then things are really bad
  8. The comment was deleted.
    1. +9
      13 May 2023 16: 49
      Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
      Maybe the leadership of the Russian Federation should still admit ...

      what Even so, I don’t immediately remember when something like this happened in history ... what
    2. +5
      13 May 2023 16: 50
      So no one is against it ... just how to surrender Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk ??? This will be a disaster...

      And the West and Ukrainians will no longer agree to another ... the ingenious nanogenius has shown his complete incapacity ... and he will be crushed
      1. +18
        13 May 2023 16: 57
        And unless to us to be disgraced for the first time!!! We started with the Olympic Games under the white flag. Let's finish...??? And about the Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will justify this to us. For example, in order to avoid casualties on the territory of Russia, etc. Only after that EVERYTHING AND KALININGRAD AND THE KURILS WILL POWDER, AND THE TURKISH PARTNERS AND FRIENDS WILL NOT BE OUT OF THE SIDE!!!?
        1. -5
          13 May 2023 17: 05
          And on the other hand? Lie down with bones, so that later the Chinese / Indians / ... ect. Did you master the "liberated" one? Maybe then it's better "BAHNEM" ???
          1. +3
            13 May 2023 20: 25
            Quote: Yves762
            Maybe then it's better to "BAHNEM" ???

            Be sure to bang.
            Today they banged across Dneprodzerzhinsk - the explosion and detonation are more abrupt than in Pavlograd.
            This is a war (not NWO), and in it losses happen on both sides. The enemy bears very heavy damage from attacks on the rear areas, warehouses and places of concentration. And he answers - skillfully, inventively, toughly. He quickly learns from this war - from his mistakes and from our miscalculations. And we learn - also on the blood and our own losses.
            The enemy set up a classic ambush - he pulled the air defense system to the border in the place where the VKS has been terrorizing their border military infrastructure with UPABs for the last two weeks. They used external target designation from a NATO AWACS aircraft and immediately caught 4 aircraft. Henceforth, we will have science that the enemy has medium-range air defense systems, which they can pull up to the front line. therefore, bombing UPAB from high altitudes is fraught with new losses. It also means that the enemy has air defense systems that are not sensitive to our electronic warfare systems (apparently something new, perhaps the same French-Italian medium-range air defense system that was recently delivered to the Armed Forces of Ukraine). Or maybe it was American-made explosive missiles at all, launched by a fighter from low altitudes on target designation from AWACS. The key element here is the NATO AWACS aircraft, which directs the SAM or RVV SD. Therefore, it is necessary to make some decisions on enemy AWACS aircraft, which are practically fighting on the side of the enemy.
            Are they fighting us from NATO airspace?
            But after all, it can fly over them in the same way - without our aircraft crossing air borders. And at least it's time to purposefully suppress these flying radars with interference. If it is not completely possible to suppress, then it will be possible to greatly reduce the range of their detection.
            I think that a pair of Sentry bombarded over the Black Sea, Romania and Poland by an "unknown missile from Burkina Faso" will be a worthy response to today's losses of the Aerospace Forces.
            1. osp
              +7
              14 May 2023 00: 26
              Do not be fooled.
              NATO AWACS aircraft, even purely theoretically, cannot see what is happening in the airspace of the Bryansk or Kharkov region.
              Unless, of course, they fly over Kiev or Poltava.
              From the territory of Poland, they see approximately to Kyiv and the territory of Belarus.
              From the Black Sea, they see only Crimea, a little to the north and a little bit of the Krasnodar Territory.
              That's all they can.

              It has a maximum target detection range of 500-550 km and sees at that distance
              he is a large target such as Tu-95 or Il-76.
              Tactical aircraft are detected at a maximum of 350-400 km.

              Most likely, specific reconnaissance spacecraft are working.
              1. +4
                14 May 2023 09: 15
                Quote from osp
                It has a maximum target detection range of 500-550 km and sees at that distance
                he is a large target such as Tu-95 or Il-76.

                In fact, the modernized Sentry see large targets at a distance of up to 800 km. at its own echelon of 10 m. Targets of the "heavy fighter" type at a distance of up to 000 km. You gave data on Sentry before modernization.
                But you are right that the distance is large enough for confident detection, and even more so for guidance and even target designation. Most likely a well-prepared and successfully carried out ambush operation in the expected area. Su-34 threw bombs from a great height, Su-35, which covered it, at a height not lower than average. The EW helicopter also flew quite high. And the ambush was successful.
                They will extract the striking elements from the wreckage, then it will become clear what they were shooting at. If this is an air defense system from the border zone, then reconnaissance of this zone should be strengthened with the help of UAVs and destroyed by Lancets. You should learn from mistakes.
                1. 0
                  14 May 2023 11: 39
                  Quote: bayard
                  see large targets at distances up to 800 km. at own echelon 10 m.

                  Of course, the height of these targets above the Earth's surface should also be 10 m.
                  Quote from osp
                  Tactical aircraft are detected at a maximum of 350-400 km.

                  This is if they fly to WWI.
                  The radar detection range is determined not only by the power of the probing pulse and the sensitivity of the receiver, but also by the curvature of the Earth. The upgraded "Sentry" has increased both power (total \ aggregate) and sensitivity. Therefore, the detection of large high-altitude targets - up to 800 km. Large fighters and other targets at medium altitudes - up to 650 km. KR, 5th generation aircraft, etc. targets with low EPR ... request a bunch of options.
                  1. osp
                    +2
                    15 May 2023 01: 01
                    Even if we assume the incredible that the detection range of tactical aircraft from the modified AWACS of the French or German Air Force is about 1000 km.
                    In any case, drawing figure eights from Fr. Serpentine and Poland, he will not see anything that is happening in the Bryansk region, because the distance to them is more than 1000 km, even more than 1500 km.
                    That is, we dismiss this option immediately - it is impossible.

                    But the devil is in the details.
                    Some NATO countries such as Spain, Greece, Sweden, etc. have small AWACS aircraft
                    which, purely theoretically, could work from the airspace of Ukraine being at a distance of 350-400 km from the LBS.
                    Purely theoretically.
                    Moreover, the heights of their patrols are lower.
                    This is so, for example, as a formality.

                    If all our aircraft are shot down by AIM-120, then there are only 4 options:

                    1. The Sumerians secretly dragged Nasams to the border at night and ambushed:
                    2. The attack was carried out by Ukrainian fighters modified to use AIM-120 missiles or ex-Polish MiG-29 modified in a similar way;
                    3.Ukraine has already received F-16 fighters and carried out their combat use;
                    4. The attack was carried out by NATO fighters from Ukrainian airspace.

                    There can be no other for this type of rocket.
                    The saboteurs dragged her not in backpacks.
                    1. +1
                      15 May 2023 09: 42
                      Quote from osp
                      Some NATO countries such as Spain, Greece, Sweden, etc. have small AWACS aircraft
                      which, purely theoretically, could work from the airspace of Ukraine being at a distance of 350-400 km from the LBS.

                      This is extremely unlikely. The visibility range of such aircraft is within 350 - 400 km. , and in order to see deep into the territory of the Russian Federation at least 100 km. they will have to approach the state border by 250-300 km. , and this is fraught with becoming a victim of our RVV databases (with a range of 300 to 400 km.). They won't take that risk.
                      Quote from osp
                      2. The attack was carried out by Ukrainian fighters modified to use AIM-120 missiles or ex-Polish MiG-29 modified in a similar way;

                      The option is probable, but the very fact of the presence in the air (before the downing) of the Su-35S excludes such a possibility. The enemy fighter would have been detected and destroyed.
                      Quote from osp
                      1. The Sumerians secretly dragged Nasams to the border at night and ambushed:

                      With a high degree of probability, that is exactly what happened. Moreover, local residents also saw a volley of missiles from the adjacent territory (from four to six missiles). So it's a classic SAM ambush on the route of repeated strikes. Before that incident, our aviation had been nightmare of them from this direction for a couple of weeks. Similar ambushes were staged by our air defense systems both in Vietnam and in BV - a common practice since the 60s.
                      In addition, the AIM-120 also has a passive guidance mode - to the source of interference. So interference from it does not protect much.
                      Quote from osp
                      3.Ukraine has already received F-16 fighters and carried out their combat use;

                      Not yet , but they will probably appear in the summer .
                      Quote from osp
                      4. The attack was carried out by NATO fighters from Ukrainian airspace.

                      This can only be decided with the help of the F-22, and they are already deployed there (Eastern Europe).
                      1. osp
                        +1
                        15 May 2023 13: 12
                        The carrier-based aircraft of the US Navy (specifically a pair of Growlers) flew into the airspace of Ukraine in the Vilkovo region more than once in the summer and autumn of last year.
                        They just turn off the identification transponders at the border and there. In radio silence mode.
                        Then, after half an hour or an hour, they again appeared at the border in Romania where a tanker was already waiting for them, because they were far from flying to the Adriatic.
                        What they were doing in the sky of the Odessa region is unknown.
                        Probably HARM launches were carried out or RTR was conducted on the Kherson front.

                        And yes, I did not find any information that the Polish MiG-29s recently transferred to Ukraine were modernized to use the "Viper" anywhere.
                        Exactly like the fact that the remaining Ukrainian Su-27 / MiG-29 upgrades of this level were carried out.

                        It is very difficult. Much more difficult than just hanging a HARM or Storm Shadow or any other Air-to-Ground weapon.
                        The capabilities of the H001 and H019 radars are so-so.
                        The firing range of the AIM-120 may be higher than the detection range of these radars.
                        Although Ukraine made these radars, such a level of refinement has never been carried out even for abroad.
                      2. 0
                        16 May 2023 10: 29
                        Quote from osp
                        The firing range of the AIM-120 may be higher than the detection range of these radars.

                        As far as I remember, part of the Polish MiG-29s was modernized by the Israelis just under the AIM-120, possibly with the replacement of the airborne radar with an Israeli one.
                        True, unmodernized MiG-29s were announced for delivery, but ... who knows their Poles? The fact is that 27 MiG-29s arrived in / on and are already actively used (at least the Nazis advertise this).
                        But most likely, the use of the AIM-120 could be with a ground-based launcher for the NASAMS air defense system. And it turned out to be a very effective and effective application. We must draw conclusions.
            2. +2
              15 May 2023 17: 02
              Well I'll add
              From my sofa experience, it is not necessary to shoot explosive rockets from an airplane.
              They took it, dragged a rocket from a BUK or prepared a special version of AIM-9 or AIM-120 and fired from guides installed on the ground or on a pickup truck.
              You, as children, consider the current air version of the attack !!
              There was no attack made by an aircraft.!!
              This is a purely anti-aircraft ambush, using various types of missiles and radar-guided and optical and IR + UV.
              A current complexly prepared ambush could pull this off.
              Well, I doubt that there was no radar detection here - someone gave minimal information about the air situation.

              This is what they turned against the s in Vietnam, now they have experienced it for themselves.
              Then the work of intelligence and counterintelligence and combat planning specialists begins.
              We got what we learn from - we got experience. The main thing is to think it over and find countermeasures, and fundamental suppression in the future of such episodes.
      2. -6
        13 May 2023 17: 01
        Quote: Nikolay310
        So no one is against it ... just how to surrender Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk ??? This will be a disaster...

        You will probably surrender Moscow soon too ... as I see it, the bar is rising higher and higher with you.
        1. +4
          13 May 2023 21: 38
          And what about Moscow .. What is useful there, oligarchs, officials, generals and relatives .. Moscow is not Russia .. Moscow is a center for pulling money from Russia
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. +5
          13 May 2023 17: 19
          Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
          I see the way out of the negotiations as follows ...

          Yeah ...
          what
          And, for example, who will return hundreds of billions of evergreens spent to the "west"?
        2. +3
          13 May 2023 17: 51
          Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
          I see the exit from the negotiations as follows. Recognize these territories as Ukrainian. Who considers himself Russian to resettle in the Russian Federation.
          Provide housing and some work. Let it be temporary. Who wants to stay there, let them stay. It's not embarrassing, it's a rational decision.

          Tsipsoshnik eh? smile
          1. 0
            14 May 2023 00: 11
            This is not just the notorious TsIPSOshnik, this is an outright enemy or traitor. Let him make similar proposals to the ukrofascists.
        3. +7
          13 May 2023 19: 33
          Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
          I see the exit from the negotiations as follows. Recognize these territories as Ukrainian. Who considers himself Russian to resettle in the Russian Federation.
          Provide housing and some work. Let it be temporary. Who wants to stay there, let them stay. It's not embarrassing, it's a rational decision.

          Today they demand from Russia to return the Crimea - tomorrow they will demand to give up the Far East, Siberia, the Urals ...
          What to do ??? - to begin with, stop pumping gas through the Ukrainian GTS, then stop any supply of raw materials to the EU-NATO and any other country that will be an intermediary gasket, even if it is Erdogan Turetsky's "partner".
          To start hitting the communications of Ukraine - it will be spent on the destruction of bridges and railway stations - then the troops and aviation of Russia will be more whole.
          How and with what to break bridges - the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of Russia must know - they don’t know? - resign for incompetence - do not want to? - then it's already work for the FSB to find out the reason for "not wanting" ...
          On the topic of the article - there are words, but they are all obscene.
          sad
        4. +2
          14 May 2023 00: 02
          Negotiation can only be done like this:
          1. Massive missile and bomb strikes on all important transport infrastructure facilities of the territory controlled by the Kiev regime, through which the front group of the AFU is supplied, its forces are transferred, etc.: bridges, railways. stations, etc. Instead of strikes on transformer boxes and sheds, which until now were mostly.
          2. Launching missile strikes against government targets in Kyiv and other important cities of Bandera-fascist Ukraine.
          3. Building up the front grouping of the VFR to the scale necessary and sufficient for dissecting and bypassing strikes against the enemy, with the aim of encircling his large military groups at the front. Instead of storming cities in the forehead. Until now, unlike the VFU, the VFR uses a much smaller share of its forces and means.
          All this will inevitably lead to a quick and decisive defeat of the main military forces of Bandera-fascist Ukraine and the demoralization of its military-political leadership and most of the population. That's when it will be possible to negotiate.
          1. +2
            14 May 2023 10: 59
            Everything will be easier. They will extend the grain deal..
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          1. +2
            13 May 2023 18: 16
            Don't expect him to tell. smile
            ...............................................
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            1. +1
              13 May 2023 19: 31
              Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
              SVO has reached a dead end. And you understand it.

              It’s not the CBO that has reached a dead end, but not competent, but loyal people
          3. 0
            13 May 2023 18: 58
            "You tell that to those who fight on the front lines."
            that there are no results from this war. Prigozhin has already calculated how many centimeters Wagner has advanced today?
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +10
          13 May 2023 19: 39
          Quote: Alexander Kovalenko
          . To start. At least.
          To declare war on Ukraine - in order to stop any "business relations" with Ukraine at the legislative level - at least to cancel the "grain deal" ...
          1. +1
            15 May 2023 14: 30
            To declare war on Ukraine - in order to stop any "business relations" with Ukraine at the legislative level - at least to cancel the "grain deal" ...

            and what will it change? will it be better to fight because of the name? an army immediately from a non-combat-ready one and with a brilliant command to turn into a combat-ready army with sensible commanders?

            business relations - well, these are export deliveries of gas and oil, from which the budget is replenished, due to which Russia conducts its own. And so the budget deficit is growing by leaps and bounds. Do you have a budget plan? just do not talk about the fact that "it is necessary to dispossess the oligarchs", because in the foreseeable future this will not fill the budget. We need money to run our business now, not 10 years from now. Again, appeasement of the same Hungary and Serbia.

            The grain deal will be with Russia or without it, but as long as it exists, then Russia participates at least somehow in the inspection of cargo to Ukraine. What can the Russian Federation do to stop the grain deal? sink all ships, incl. neutral countries?

            So why declare war, what will it change? to amuse you?
    4. +17
      13 May 2023 17: 09
      What search? You clearly outlined the terms of the truce:
      1. Get out of new areas
      2. Get out of the DNR and LNR and turn a blind eye to the genocide
      3. Get out of Crimea
      4. Pay reparations
      5. We are not negotiating with Putin.

      Forgot Zenesky's list? ))
    5. +1
      13 May 2023 20: 20
      The repeated particle "ni" takes on the meaning of a union, for example:
      There was no water or trees to be seen anywhere (Chekhov).
    6. +1
      13 May 2023 23: 25
      The only way is to find a compromise and peaceful negotiations.

      What kind of compromise can there be with the weak, with the losing side? In such cases, we are talking only about surrender, and not even honorable, but unconditional.
    7. +9
      14 May 2023 08: 41
      "Maybe the leadership of the Russian Federation should still admit that Russia was not ready for this NWO, neither morally nor military-technically." (my edit): I can add, not intellectually. Looking from the outside, one gets the impression that either traitors or clinical idiots are leading this operation, repeating all the mistakes cited in the textbooks. When I wrote that yes, "everything is going according to the Plan, but according to the Dulles Plan", that it is necessary to analyze the bitter mistakes of the inglorious beginning of the NWO, and not to hush them up and not shut up their mouths, you were happy to minus. When he wrote that the States could overwhelm Ukraine with weapons (as an example: in Vietnam they lost about 5 thousand aircraft and about 5 thousand more helicopters, so what ??? 2, so 10 THOUSAND per month! And now they are riveted as much as necessary. And how many planes did Russia produce last year? But they laughed at me). And now the West has supplied very (!) high-precision, and now long-range weapons, and everything has become even worse. So the fruits of arrogance, self-confidence and intellectual weakness, as they say, on the face. I'm sorry for the pilots. Who gave them this task?
      1. 0
        22 May 2023 02: 48
        And during the First World War, they didn’t even stamp planes at all, but planed. It just won't work now.
    8. 0
      14 May 2023 09: 31
      The only way is to find a compromise and peaceful negotiations.

      The enemy seems to be in favor of negotiations, only against compromises. This makes a big difference
  9. +15
    13 May 2023 16: 47
    Well, gentlemen, how did you grind?
    "We managed to pretty much beat up the military machine of Ukraine," the Kremlin spokesman said, recalling that "the demilitarization of Ukraine [in addition to protecting Donbass] was also declared as a very important goal of the NWO." “You see, with the help of high-precision Russian missiles, it was possible to destroy a lot of military production, eliminate stockpiles of weapons, and so on and so forth. This work will continue,” Peskov stressed.

    Apparently, they are not aware that Western countries now serve as the rear for Ukraine. And the process of demilitarization has long gone in the opposite direction
    1. +8
      13 May 2023 16: 57
      Quote: Legate
      And the process of demilitarization has long turned back

      And what happened then? Peskov said that there is no war. And the SVO is going according to plan. So that was the plan. Now the IL-2 will be removed from the pedestals, shamanized and sent to the front. And that's it, kaput to the enemy.
    2. -8
      13 May 2023 19: 09
      Quote: Legate
      demilitarization process has long gone in the opposite direction

      According to TsNPSOSH, these are words about demilitarization.
      The process is already underway to grind and scrap Western technology with more remnants from the USSR.
      Everyone knows who feeds whom he loses weight in all areas of life.
  10. -14
    13 May 2023 16: 48
    Quote: Nikolay310
    Hero of the Soviet Union, General Kopets, after the defeat of his air units by the GERMANS, shot himself ...
    I'm not hinting at anything and I'm not calling ... I'm just stating ...
    By the way, the guards have an excellent argument: Stalin won, but this is all nonsense ... we will set up a bunch more planes, and we will plant Tajiks to manage ... well, or a carpenter ...

    You would tie your thoughts together. By the way, why don't you shoot yourself? Are you tired of spoiling the air?
    1. +23
      13 May 2023 19: 01
      If you had the honor and conscience, you would do it. For for years you have been "singing" here that everything is fine, and we are ahead of the rest. That the king is a grandmaster, that the army has no analogues in the world, and the like. As a result, people pay with their lives, and you are indirectly guilty of this.
  11. -4
    13 May 2023 16: 49
    Falls ... they themselves took and fell ... like swifts that gorged themselves on fermented berries ...

    And "dear partners" definitely nothing to do with it ???
    1. +19
      13 May 2023 17: 02
      EVEN I wonder HOW IS THE GRAIN DEAL?
      1. +7
        13 May 2023 19: 00
        "HOW'S THE GRAIN DEAL?"
        a good deal will not be called a deal
      2. -9
        13 May 2023 19: 10
        Quote: Sid2014
        EVEN I wonder HOW IS THE GRAIN DEAL?

        Can't figure it out without you.
      3. +8
        13 May 2023 20: 24
        So today's events have only strengthened it. The West has shown that it has powerful weapons, that it can make a "no-fly zone" even over the Russian regions. Showed strength. And the Kremlin is afraid of the strong.
        1. -8
          13 May 2023 20: 48
          Yasha, are you really so tight, or are you scribbling garbage here at work?

          Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
          The West has shown ... that it can make a "no-fly zone" even over the Russian regions

          What, to mother, "zone"? The group ran into an ambush - yes, yours are lucky today. Planning error? Yes, obvious. A lesson for the future - no doubt there will be no repetition. And no you, to my grandmother, "no-fly zone."

          Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
          And the Kremlin is afraid of the strong

          We'll see who and where they are afraid of. So far, you have had a notable explosion today in Khmelnitsky ... air conditioning, probably wink
          1. +4
            13 May 2023 23: 12
            Quote: Repellent
            Yes, obvious. A lesson for the future - no doubt there will be no repetition.


            Ahaha. This person writes in May 2023. Yes, the entire CBO consists of continuous repetitions and lack of learning. However, aviation really learns a lot better than land pilots. But he learns in his own way. Shoot down? And we will not fly where they shoot down. And do not care that it is there that the troops need air support. We are looking under the lamp.

            Quote: Repellent
            We'll see who and where they are afraid of. So far, you have had a notable explosion today in Khmelnitsky ... air conditioning, probably


            I sympathize, of course, with the residents of Khmelnitsky, but in St. Petersburg everything seems to be calm.
            1. -7
              13 May 2023 23: 32
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              Ahaha

              Shkolota.

              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              This person writes in May 2023

              Yeah. A person is a little better than some pubertal ones, able to receive and process information. Yes, and I certainly have more sources than some, ahem, schoolboys. wink

              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              Searching under the lamp

              Exactly. And your warehouses in Khmelnytsky are exploding due to a malfunction of air conditioners. Well, everything is clear, this is already a good tradition. Yes
              1. +2
                14 May 2023 00: 41
                I searched the whole map of St. Petersburg, I did not find any Khmelnitsky. I didn't hear any explosions either. Why, I don’t even have an air conditioner (which is very unpleasant in summer).
  12. +5
    13 May 2023 16: 51
    Perhaps NATO has begun to supply the latest weapons.
  13. +9
    13 May 2023 16: 52
    At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.
    Today is Saturday. MO has a day off. No time to explain anything to the electorate.
    Seriously, what is MO doing at all?
    1. +2
      13 May 2023 17: 40
      Quote: 16112014nk
      At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.
      Today is Saturday. MO has a day off. No time to explain anything to the electorate.
      Seriously, what is MO doing at all?

      You said yourself - they have a day off. This is what they are busy with.
      1. 0
        13 May 2023 23: 36
        So, half of Shoigu's deputies are civilians, many are of retirement age. What is there at lower levels - I do not know, but probably the same. Do you propose to violate the Labor Code and labor protection legislation in relation to these workers?!
    2. +8
      13 May 2023 18: 21
      They look at the screens, knead the chairs, listen to the bosses.

      1. +8
        13 May 2023 20: 25
        I wonder what the average IQ is in this room?
        1. +1
          14 May 2023 08: 57
          @Tekkel: do they know what it is?
        2. +1
          15 May 2023 07: 18
          Count together with a computer center or without?! wassat
  14. +3
    13 May 2023 16: 54
    Everything has its own explanation. You just need to wait.
    The spokesperson will explain what happened.
    The Minister of Foreign Affairs will explain how he hits everyone on the head. Then, when he deems it necessary, and in a way that even a bad boy would not dream of.
  15. +5
    13 May 2023 16: 56
    Someone here correctly wrote - "PARTNER WAR" for some, and real boys die in hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands ... (((They stopped drawing red lines, because in Russia the red paint is over! It's time to start fighting by all means, using Russians are also tired of enduring and waiting for the KKK to be born!
  16. +15
    13 May 2023 16: 58
    The Russian authorities will answer!
    They will answer by extending the grain deal ...
  17. +1
    13 May 2023 17: 00
    And that Kanashenkov shot down all the planes? It's just a shock how our army is fighting, the only hope is for Wagner
    1. +9
      13 May 2023 17: 14
      Quote: zontov79
      And that Kanashenkov shot down all the planes? It's just a shock how our army is fighting, the only hope is for Wagner

      Howl-y-yet, you say.?.what
      They don’t give them shells, they don’t give them support, they don’t give them manpower, but they, you know, are hammering on the fortified area .. belay .. Despite the fact that they themselves say (Prigozhin's words) about the strategic penny of Artyomovsk (Bakhmut).
      Already it seems that there was more sense in the actions of the kamikaze, you know. soldier
  18. -16
    13 May 2023 17: 01
    No need for tantrums. We have not yet found out the reasons, but some are already shouting, to shoot themselves,,.
    1. +6
      13 May 2023 23: 40
      And when will they find out? The cause of the death of the cruiser "Moskva" has not yet been officially announced, a year later. So when, you say, wait for official information about the causes of today's disasters?
  19. +10
    13 May 2023 17: 02
    Two Mi-8s, presumably with electronic warfare systems, Su-34 and Su-35, equipped with Khibiny complexes, were shot down in one sortie?
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 17: 48
      Quote from: dmiitriy
      Two Mi-8s, presumably with electronic warfare systems, Su-34 and Su-35, equipped with Khibiny complexes, were shot down in one sortie?

      It seems that the missiles were aimed at sources of interference in the passive mode. From that, direct hits and the death of pilots.
      1. +1
        13 May 2023 23: 03
        Khibiny is designed to confuse missiles, masking the real position of the aircraft, but does not help when pointing at the source of interference itself? So then NATO is equipped with dual-mode missiles and everything will be useless?
        1. +5
          13 May 2023 23: 43
          Probably, the GOS of NATO missiles were not aware that our electronic warfare systems were designed to confuse them. Therefore, they were stupidly aimed at sources of radio emission. And they didn't miss.
        2. osp
          +4
          14 May 2023 00: 33
          "Khibiny" in the current conditions is practically useless thing.
          Many planes in Ukraine were lost with them.
          For example, the Su-35 was shot down on April 3 last year near Izyum. Also with these electronic warfare systems.
          The pilot has just returned from captivity.
          In autumn, the Kursk Su-30SM was also lost there. The crew died. From Buk.
          More than once they shot down Su-34s with containers of these systems.
          The maximum that it can do is deceive fighter missiles. But not ground-based air defense systems.
  20. +7
    13 May 2023 17: 03
    Footage of the wreckage of the aircraft indicates that an air-to-air missile could have been used.

    But with this message, I have some doubts. But aren't Ukraine's Western sponsors already operating their fighter jets? With our intelligence, it is quite possible to overlook anything. The attack could also be carried out by imported pilots, flying from states bordering Ukraine.
    1. +7
      13 May 2023 20: 29
      If so, then this is sooo bad news for the VKS. Okay, helicopters, but the Su-35 is our best fighter. If a Western plane was able to shoot it down with such ease that ours didn’t even have time to understand anything ...
  21. +36
    13 May 2023 17: 03
    As far as can be understood from the whole heap of information, our aircraft were shot down from an ambush.
    An ambush is possible if our aircraft fly on a mission along "standard" routes, from the same airfields, at altitudes that allow early detection of air targets, and there is no constant reconnaissance and monitoring of enemy forces and means.
    All this is a criminally thoughtless organization of warfare.
    It's my personal opinion...
    1. 0
      13 May 2023 23: 48
      The VKS is commanded by General Surovikin. The general is well-known, but he had nothing to do with aviation before being appointed to this position - a pure lander. Yes, and for the last year he has been doing what he knows, and the VKS, it turns out, was in charge between performing other duties. Here is the result. And now he is also responsible for the interaction of the Moscow Region with Wagner - is he up to the VKS?
  22. +23
    13 May 2023 17: 06
    Why be surprised then. There's so much publicly staged. Could not publicly put anything. Then it turns out that tactical nuclear weapons were also installed when they hit some city. Why not? Neither Putin, nor the Defense Ministry, nor the special services provide any opposition. The authorities have driven the country into such a wild impasse, from which there is no easy way out. Even Putin's most devoted supporters have begun to open their eyes. Only the most stubborn cannot admit to themselves that the government does not act in the interests of the country.
    1. -4
      13 May 2023 23: 01
      either your soul is on fire for your homeland, or the dill set up is cunning to "demolish" power
  23. +4
    13 May 2023 17: 06
    At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.
    . For WAR it is necessary to be in all weapons, prepared, motivated .... or not AT ALL !!!
    After the first report of a downed aircraft, it is necessary to include ALL REQUIRED Measures to prevent the recurrence of such incidents!!!
    The question is ... who is there for the control of the air situation "RESPONSIBLE" ?? What were they doing when the planes started to fall??? Or flights ACCORDING TO THE PLAN, but at least the grass does not grow tah ???
    They hoped that they would step on the rake, it's time to go, more, they won't step on the same ones ... in vain, apparently they hoped!
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 23: 51
      It is necessary to study more carefully the circumstances of yesterday's accident with the Mi-28 in the Crimea. Perhaps he was also shot down, but the investigators either did not understand this, or decided "not to disturb the public."
  24. +14
    13 May 2023 17: 11
    The first information was received about the MI-8, then about the Su-34. Another similar helicopter and a Su-25 attack aircraft (according to other sources, a Su-35 fighter) were also shot down. Russian aircraft were most likely hit by missiles.++++++ "Whoever starts a war in white gloves ends it in white slippers"...
  25. +2
    13 May 2023 17: 13
    According to updated data.
    The enemy ambushed and was able to shoot down an entire special air group in the Bryansk region
    ▪️According to the latest data, the enemy nevertheless launched surface-to-air missiles with air defense systems pulled close to the border. Before that, typical actions of our aviation were calculated. After a massive launch, some of the missiles were able to shoot down our air defense systems, but 4 missiles broke through ...
    ▪️Mi-8MTPR-1 electronic warfare helicopters with Rychag-AV active jamming stations - used to jam enemy air defense and air defense systems, their task is to interfere with attacks of anti-aircraft and aircraft missiles at a distance of more than 150 km. But today EW helicopters were sent too close to the border...
    ▪️Apparently, the Mi-8MTPR-1 covered the attacks of the Su-34 bomber with "smart bombs" on enemy targets in the Chernihiv region, and the Su-35 fighter provided air cover.
  26. +11
    13 May 2023 17: 21
    Hmm .. "A hen pecks grain by grain," you say? It will fall asleep like that with grain.
  27. +5
    13 May 2023 17: 23
    Oh! Algo anda muy mal para Rusia si cosas así suceden a estas alturas de la guerra cuando se supone que deben tener blindado el espacio aéreo. Empiecen a ganar pronto y contundentemente esa guerra o tendrán problemas mayores muy serios.
  28. +7
    13 May 2023 17: 26
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. All this is like beating a baby. The leadership of the Russian Federation does not seem to know what to do in this situation. Everyone who gave the president a bravura summary of the state of affairs and prospects before the start of the NWO should lose their posts (at best). Yes, and there is nothing to answer except for nuclear weapons.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +5
      13 May 2023 23: 54
      And is our nuclear weapons definitely in better condition than conventional weapons? And if the usual FABs somehow flew around Belgorod, then the special munitions definitely won’t decide for themselves - where should they fly?
  29. 0
    13 May 2023 17: 30
    The levers most likely flew home off.
  30. +4
    13 May 2023 17: 31
    There is no information from the Moscow Region, obviously Konoshenko writes another victorious scribbles. And then there's a whole helicopter crash. The pilots are dead. That the Chernihiv region cannot be mixed with black soil. Until when will the next red lines.
  31. -3
    13 May 2023 17: 32
    In the first months, many more of our planes and helicopters were shot down. For any tactics and techniques, counter-tactics and counter-methods are developed over time. Of course, the enemy will not sit idly by. Well, since the war has long taken on a positional character, then any answers are only a matter of time.
    So the hysteria in the media is incomprehensible. We are not in a hurry.)
    1. +11
      13 May 2023 18: 01
      Here we are talking about one-time actual losses.

      The tactics that made it possible to radically reduce losses are as simple as two pennies - do not fly over the ribbon. If you remember the first weeks, they flew with cast iron over the suburbs of Kyiv, and over Kharkov, and in the depths. Actually a la Syrian format. After that, everything turned into launches of packages with cabling from the line of their trenches and launches of the KR from the depths of the controlled territory.

      Now the line for dropping planning bombs will probably be pushed back by 15-20 km.
      1. +5
        13 May 2023 18: 23
        Reducing the possibilities of inflicting damage on enemy targets to the desired depth !!!
        It's full... well, FULL!
        A bomber can occupy an echelon not up to a single MANPADS, this is an AXIOM !!!
        The approach of longer-range air defense systems, altitude, must be tracked by reconnaissance means and destroyed !!! There are certain tactics, methods, how to do this without losing your combat aircraft ...
        After all, there is a methodology, tactics, BATTLE REGULATIONS in the end !!! Absolutely crazy, brains, lack of competence, play / fight ACCORDING TO YOUR RULES, and not in giveaway !!!
        I really want to know that those who did this, allowed it, will be crucified "on the board of honor / leading workers, military and political" ... if they still have one!
      2. +4
        14 May 2023 00: 02
        Now the line for dropping planning bombs will probably be pushed back by 15-20 km.

        The planning range of our adjustable bombs is not so hot anyway. If pushed aside, they won’t even reach the nearest rear. Yes, and they will not save 15-20 km, because the turntables were shot down 50 km from the border.
        It turns out that our planes are again starting to work only as a deliverer of the Kyrgyz Republic until the launch line, and this line is in the deep rear. And adjustable bombs are sent to where free-falling ones have been gathering dust for a year. But there are not as many missiles as you would like, they are expensive, they have imported electronic components, and they also get lost in air defense.
        1. +3
          14 May 2023 11: 00
          MANPADS have a short range, if they were used, then the saboteurs acted on our territory.
          Long-range air defense systems, this is not a needle in a haystack, they must be tracked by reconnaissance and destroyed by available strike means.
          There is criminal negligence, incompetence, poor training of those responsible for organizing the combat process.
          Again, "oh, they didn't prepare, it wasn't foreseen, this" ... they considered themselves smarter than the enemy and here is the result, losses, losses and disruption of the task!
          1. +1
            14 May 2023 12: 14
            Yes, no one considered himself smarter - they simply scored on everything and hoped for a chance. Everyone is so accustomed to doing everything "for show" that even a real danger to one's own life cannot always force one to change the behavioral algorithms that have ingrained in the subcortex. And if other people's lives are not a factor at all. The principle works here: if you are "one of you", then they will not leave you, they will disown you from responsibility, and if you are not your own (for the system, the vertical), then even if you are not guilty of anything, you have repeatedly signaled the problem, offered solutions - you will be merged and they will set you up, simply because you need a scapegoat, and at the same time it’s a sin not to use the occasion to get rid of the troublemaker.
            1. +1
              14 May 2023 12: 51
              The prostate is worse than theft!!!
              This is a war, each "maybe" is a VICTIMS that can, had to be avoided.
              Incompetence, that's c. including the fact that the responsible person allows some kind of "maybe" where everything should be clear according to the rules, according to the charter, etc.
              In general, the definition of "criminal negligence" ... suspend, dismiss, JUDGE !!!
  32. +9
    13 May 2023 17: 40
    Quote: kventinasd
    According to updated data.
    The enemy ambushed and was able to shoot down an entire special air group in the Bryansk region

    And what, an ambush tactic, is this something new, never used before ???
  33. +1
    13 May 2023 17: 49
    Judging by the video, the eight was shot down by MANPADS. The explosion is not very powerful. Or Starstrix.
    1. +3
      13 May 2023 18: 12
      What is the danger of MANPADS ... it is not visible, I did not find it until they were fired!
      Why is he weak ... range, altitude, so-so, and what does this mean ??? It is necessary to arrange hell for hell if you don’t know for sure who, where and how will fly !!!
      And now the question is ... do ours FLY ON THE SAME ROUTE ??? or knocked, sold someone???
      Variants, one another is worse!!!
      Their reconnaissance could, could detect an approximate direction, but how could the ambush move there, is that a question ??? And yes, our intelligence, no sleep, no spirit, NO ???
      Questions, questions, about competence, about the desire of responsible people to serve as they should, or from a call to lunch ???
      Not a fig is not clear what is going on there and how?? soldier
      1. +2
        13 May 2023 19: 38
        Quote: rocket757
        ON THE PATTERN, ON THE SAME ROUTE FLY ???

        Certainly. Acho, there is no war over their territory, for the generals these are exercises with live firing, they act STRICTLY ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN. This ukram has to be smart.
        1. +1
          13 May 2023 20: 56
          An incompetent commander, leader, option is no better than the enemy ... although more harm can come from him.
          Suspend, promote others and CHECK, CHECK, CHECK.
          1. +1
            13 May 2023 23: 02
            Quote: rocket757
            Remove, promote others

            It is impossible to put forward a dismissal - in any case it will not be better.
            "- Once in one large office they said. Talented and enterprising? No. We need executives and it is desirable that they tap their heels." © E. Prigogine.
            1. +1
              14 May 2023 10: 34
              General advice .... people, do not read any nonsense!
              Advise Ohsetin do not write these nonsense, it's useless, they have such a "work", PAID.
              1. 0
                14 May 2023 12: 18
                In my opinion, Aslan's is just sarcasm, in vain you attacked him.
  34. +6
    13 May 2023 17: 51
    It's bad, very bad, and the worst thing is that no one will be held responsible for this. They will also tell us all how well we fight, the enemy is demoralized and the west will soon die.
  35. +14
    13 May 2023 17: 52
    Quote: kventinasd
    The attack could be carried out import pilots, having taken off from the border states with Ukraine.

    So in our country, in every article, in all the media, it is stated that we are not at war with Ukraine, but with the NATO bloc itself!
    And now, what happens? According to your version, a car with a NATO pilot flew in and killed 4 of ours in one go?!
    So, up to this point, we still did not quite fight with NATO? And even vice versa, not with NATO at all?
    1. +15
      13 May 2023 20: 34
      When we start fighting NATO, it will be easy to understand.

      Oh, how we all boasted, going to the army. And this forum is in the forefront (
  36. +15
    13 May 2023 18: 13
    They put them on Russian territory like in a shooting range. And they say that Prigozhin is escalating the situation. FLAGSHIP OF THE BLACK SEA FLEET. CRIMEAN BRIDGE. they say a bad person immediately removes him and they go to the Wagners.
  37. +3
    13 May 2023 18: 14
    This is a failure, said Ostap, and went to load shells in barrels.
    1. +1
      13 May 2023 19: 27
      laughing
      Almost correct!
      He only loaded oranges in barrels, and he sold tickets to visit the failure.
  38. 0
    13 May 2023 18: 18
    Quote: Ivan Ivanov_36
    Why be surprised then. There's so much publicly staged. Could not publicly put anything. Then it turns out that tactical nuclear weapons were also installed when they hit some city. Why not? Neither Putin, nor the Defense Ministry, nor the special services provide any opposition. The authorities have driven the country into such a wild impasse, from which there is no easy way out. Even Putin's most devoted supporters have begun to open their eyes. Only the most stubborn cannot admit to themselves that the government does not act in the interests of the country.

    I agree, long-range missiles have been delivered, the Nazis themselves will be able to fasten a dirty bomb to them, perhaps with wire and bang
  39. +1
    13 May 2023 18: 21
    Everything goes to the next scenario, as the red felt-tip pens are over.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0r2nQdpM58&pp=ygUx0LrQsNGGINC_0YDQtdC00LvQsNCz0LDQtdGCINGB0LTQsNGC0YzRgdGPINC80LXQvA%3D%3D
  40. -4
    13 May 2023 18: 38
    Don't on-board systems warn of an approaching missile?
    1. 0
      13 May 2023 19: 17
      But does it really respond to heat-seeking MANPADS?
    2. osp
      0
      14 May 2023 00: 37
      If an air defense system was fired from the territory of Ukraine, then "Pastel" should warn both about exposure and about launching missiles.
  41. +2
    13 May 2023 18: 45
    So soon the planes will deliver ukram. And there you look and tiao.
  42. +6
    13 May 2023 18: 54
    As a result of the crash of Mi-8 helicopters and Su-34 and Su-35 fighters in the Bryansk region, 9 people were killed - Base

    Not a single member of the crew of the four aircraft could survive.
    1. -3
      13 May 2023 19: 15
      Quote: Boniface
      Not a single member of the crew of the four aircraft could survive.

      By the way, the question is: why did the Sushek pilots not eject? I didn’t see the video on them (apparently they didn’t shoot down over the settlement), but even if they flew at the lowest possible level, the catapults should work. It turns out that either MANPADS were not with thermal guidance and were removed next to the cockpit (the video from the Mi-8 shows that the explosion in the exhaust area and the tail rotor beam was broken), or it was not MANPADS that worked on the Sushki, but something powerful (which, on that the air defense did not work and it is possible to carry the DRG on hand?), Which led to the instant destruction of the aircraft.
      1. +2
        14 May 2023 15: 02
        because they died when hit by powerful missiles. size s-300. the question is what it could be.
  43. +4
    13 May 2023 18: 58
    I read most of the comments, not all .... Emotions and again emotions. No way without them. I have one of our courtyard "slang" in my soul. But let's put it all aside and think further. And then so on - explanations from all those involved, analysis, protocol, measures to prevent, RESPONSIBLE for the execution of the decisions of the analysis, deadlines for execution, control of execution with full name. This is, as it were, the standard of one of our founding companies (everyone found out). Where is all this????
    It's all done! We are ...... for every comma ... for the wrong color of the shaded square (KSOT-P). And here??????
    One slang.
    1. +4
      13 May 2023 21: 50
      It's all done! We are ...... for every comma ... for the wrong color of the shaded square (KSOT-P). And here??????

      Exactly! This, among other things, is the result of the destruction of the military education system + personnel "policy" (bribes for positions and titles, "sons", "our" people, etc.). Military men in "office" uniforms are not defenders, but "menagers" ...
    2. 0
      14 May 2023 00: 07
      Don't be afraid: papers on this subject will be written out unmeasured. Everyone will sign for the briefing - to deepen, strengthen, prevent ... What's the point?
  44. 0
    13 May 2023 19: 08
    MORF is not going to comment on this incident?
  45. +4
    13 May 2023 19: 08
    Black day of Russian military aviation. I have no words .
  46. +5
    13 May 2023 19: 10
    Now, about the losses of Peskov, he will justify himself like this: "Well, the war, after all! And what did you want!? There is no way without losses ..."?
  47. +4
    13 May 2023 19: 11
    They are already bragging about what they shot down.
    Received Polish MIGs upgraded for air-to-air missiles with a range of 100+ km.
    Debut so to speak.
    1. +2
      13 May 2023 19: 29
      Received Polish MIGs upgraded for air-to-air missiles with a range of 100+ km.
      Debut so to speak.

      How could Migi be shot down? We have C350 and C400! Do they not see targets such as Mig for 70 km -100 km?
      And if they simply pulled up the air defense and, according to the AWACS data, they worked, then why didn’t the missile launches detect
      and why do the latest aircraft have no protection against them, that they have lost 100 percent of their composition?
      And if they were shooting very close to the border and at point-blank range, then why didn’t they immediately gasp at the launch sites with artillery of all calibers?
      1. osp
        0
        14 May 2023 00: 38
        According to AWACS, they can’t work there.
        Unless AWACS are circling over Kiev.
    2. 0
      14 May 2023 15: 01
      air-to-air missiles are unable to tear off the cockpit of the su-34. titanium.
      1. +2
        14 May 2023 16: 35
        In the Su-34, only the bath itself is armored, unlike the Su-25, in which the lantern is also armored. At the 34th, even a large bird will strike. Obviously, there were missiles of which air defense missiles were more serious than portable ones. The remnants of the wing near the dryer are very badly cut. Either way, these "dear partners" somehow managed to sharpen the Polish MiG-29s for the use of AIM-120, they are with the agsn in the final section, then it's still sadder
    3. -1
      14 May 2023 17: 45
      The trouble is that our radars do not see these missiles.
      1. 0
        14 May 2023 21: 12
        Yes, there are problems with their detection. And visually, too, almost undetectable. They use smokeless powder. In Syria, our Su-24 Turks shot down just such
  48. -2
    13 May 2023 19: 23
    Yes, it's sad!!! Why don't reconnaissance and sabotage groups work in the near rear of the enemy? There must be thousands of them along the entire front line. Where is the modern Sudoplatov? Where is Zhukov? Stalin? When will we start fighting for real, and not for money? Is this again a liberal monetary approach to protecting the Motherland from defeat, followed by the liquidation of Russians as a nation? You can't win a war with the Anglo-Saxons for money. In reality, money does not fight for the Motherland, and a mercenary army can only solve narrow special tasks. A real war is won by the people and the army disinterestedly. Neither the domestic war of 1812, nor the 1st World War, nor the Second World War for wages, no one fought. Why NWO, not WWII. Stop blowing steam on the locomotive whistle. The train of victory must go to her at full speed.
  49. +3
    13 May 2023 19: 24
    At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.


    And just yesterday, a Mi-28 helicopter crashed in the Crimea, in the Dzhankoy region.
    And both pilots died there too.
    But about that case they immediately announced that it was just a "malfunction".
    And now you involuntarily think about it, but is it really a malfunction?

    https://topwar.ru/216871-minoborony-rf-vertolet-mi-28-vs-rf-upal-v-krymu.html
    Russian Defense Ministry: Russian Mi-28 helicopter crashed in Crimea

    As the main version of the helicopter crash, the failure of technical equipment is considered .... not a single aircraft is insured against equipment problems.
    1. 0
      14 May 2023 17: 50
      All falls just fit into the range (180 km) of the English ASRAMs.
      it’s bad that we don’t have such missiles .. Under the USSR, analogues were developed, but all the design bureaus remained in (in) Kuyev
      It is somewhat reminiscent of the arrival at 404 Hymarsov, i.e. at a distance of approx. 200 km from the borders of enemy aviation, ours are in danger
      1. +1
        14 May 2023 22: 21
        AIM 120 AMRAAM, ASRAAM is a 35 km short-range missile.
        1. 0
          15 May 2023 14: 04
          this is a real problem, the speed of Mach 4 and these already non-new (1991) missiles is approx. 20'000 pcs.
  50. +5
    13 May 2023 19: 48
    The tactics of using videoconferencing in the NWO requires correction. I don’t know who is in command of our VKS, but according to today’s losses, he is not a pilot and not a specialist in military aviation. For some reason, VKS bombers with a bomb load fly over Russian cities, losing their bombs on residential areas of Russian cities. Departures of fighters, bombers and special aircraft take place along the old routes and altitude levels known to the enemy. What is happening, who will give an answer to this military disgrace?
    1. +2
      14 May 2023 00: 12
      I don’t know who is in command of our VKS, but according to today’s losses, he is not a pilot and not a specialist in military aviation.

      Easy to google: General Surovikin is in command. And you are right - never a pilot, and not a specialist in military aviation. But now such trifles are not an obstacle to appointment to a position. Although the military, and that is good by today's standards.
      1. 0
        15 May 2023 00: 48
        Was Surovikin in command of this particular air group? Does he compose and transfer each flight task to pilots? Or are the commanders in the field generally not responsible for anything and should not think, but are only able to "eat the authorities with their eyes"?
  51. +6
    13 May 2023 19: 52
    What will the Moscow Region say this time?

    The fact is that all the media of both the West and Russia have been repeating for three weeks now that the Poles handed over MiG-29s to Ukraine, converted to carry American V-B missiles with a launch range of up to 150 km. When guiding and supporting Avax-type AWACS and NATO reconnaissance aircraft, this is a “long arm” even for MiGs. Moreover, there was talk about the transfer of Patriot air defense systems, which can also be covertly brought to the border or LBS. Everyone knew this, even the sellers in the markets, except apparently the command of the Aerospace Forces and the General Staff. Today is a dark day for VKS. And another shameful one for the Moscow Region. I would really like for the General Staff to finally involve smart, far-sighted, and modern-minded commanders. And it’s time for old people to retire to their gardens. We need a victory in the Northern Military District, and not what is happening now due to someone’s stupidity.
    1. +3
      13 May 2023 22: 49
      Quote: BorzRio
      I would really like for the General Staff to finally involve smart, far-sighted, and modern-minded commanders.

      Where can I find these now and quickly? Personnel and professionals are trained for years and become the best in at least a decade. This call is like a decree to overcome poverty and develop technology. Like the desire to produce modern computers and smartphones. If we do not have the most modern means of communication and reconnaissance, then where will the generals who know how to use them come from? And how to use them if they are not there? And without intelligence, it is extremely difficult to fight better than the enemy. I wouldn’t be surprised if at the airfields from which our planes and helicopters took off, the personnel use iPhones, and the connection is not jammed and anyone near the airfield can call and report that a bomber has taken off, or even use a program that will determine the type of aircraft, coordinates , speed, direction of movement, and will transmit online to the enemy.
      1. -2
        14 May 2023 20: 14
        It’s hard to take from Wagner, only there are smart commanders who care about the personnel and have a positive status, our General Staff is just puffy.
    2. +1
      13 May 2023 23: 11
      AWACS did not help. Its radius is only 500-700 km; that area is not visible from Poland or the Baltic states.
      Alternatively, if the missiles were in one, the coordinates could be given by informants, and the missiles were launched blindly, relying on the seeker of the missile itself. But why the Khibiny complex, which is found on both the Su-34 and Su-35, did not help is unclear.
      1. osp
        0
        14 May 2023 00: 42
        He doesn't have such a detection radius!
        At 500-550 km this is the maximum range and he sees only large targets with a large ESR
        such as transport aircraft or strategic bombers.
        He sees tactical aircraft much closer, approximately 350-400 km.
        Helicopters are even smaller.
        So it's not even seriously considered.

        Most likely Nasams or Patriot were brought secretly to the border at night.
        1. -1
          14 May 2023 14: 59
          a patriot is not a mobile complex. excluded.
        2. 0
          14 May 2023 22: 25
          Don't think. It's troublesome and time-consuming. It’s easier to keep MiGs and Amraams on the road with a warm engine. then take off, reach the attack line, launch at everything on the radar, wait until the fuel rocket hits the target and go away. You have to drag the nasamsa and this is fraught, but in the video at the moment of the hit it is clearly amraam. Although maybe nasams. My opinion.
  52. +10
    13 May 2023 20: 04
    At the moment, there is no official comment from the Russian defense department.

    The Ministry of Excuses is now flowing around and trying to come up with another excuse, how a country without air defense was able to so epically bend the 2nd army of the world, which has not yet “started anything.”
    1. 0
      14 May 2023 22: 28
      Fear God, people died. Stop talking nonsense. Stop talking nonsense. The war has really reached a new level and is becoming uncontrollable.
  53. -1
    13 May 2023 20: 13
    Quote from Silver99
    I am increasingly convinced that the use of tactical nuclear weapons is a reality.

    Will we turn not only Ukraine, which they were going to liberate, into a radioactive desert, but also our border regions so that the radiation gets to us?
  54. +1
    13 May 2023 21: 24
    Quote: Roman Efremov
    Why trifle - let's hit America right away !!! laughing

    Rational decision. The rest will give up on their own.
  55. +3
    13 May 2023 21: 40
    I'm wondering if this was the SAMP-T promised by the French. It is more mobile than the Patriot, the missiles are homing and it seems like the new modifications can hit up to 150 km.
  56. -6
    13 May 2023 22: 55
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote from alexoff
    but because I don’t understand what MO does at all.

    I don’t understand what they have been doing since 2014, and even more so now. I have only one suggestion - a tumor of betrayal struck the highest echelons of power.

    Look deeper - in 1917, the Europithecus returned (removed by Peter 1) the atheists to the place of prayer, to rule over people. For 104 years now we are losing everything that our ancestors built from Peter the Great to 1.
    How it works is in the knowledge of people specific to the current tribe, but as it is.
  57. +2
    14 May 2023 00: 53
    It was worth expecting such tricks in the borderlands, it’s strange that they didn’t happen (or, perhaps, they were better stopped) earlier. The move is spectacular and fits perfectly into the general direction of the enemy’s MTR activities, which have been increasingly demonstrating over the last month “we see you, but you don’t see us.” All these are part of actions aimed at shaking up our society and the dismorality of the military.
    1. ada
      +2
      14 May 2023 04: 27
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      We should have expected such tricks in the borderlands, it’s strange that they didn’t happen...

      Greetings!
      Yes, there are plenty of “tricks” in the Bryansk region, but they were saved for time and the roots there, of course, are not local. They grow from operational plans for coalition military actions of the European Armed Forces (both in the NATO Allied Forces and in a limited number) in relation to the Republic of Belarus (Belarus) in order to obtain the most advantageous positions in the theater of operations (in accordance with the NATO-91 strategic concept), since without territory It is problematic for the Republic of Belarus to obtain a stable position for coalition forces throughout the entire theater of war with the access of NATO Allied Forces to the border of the Russian Federation (in the development of the next stage of strategic planning of the USA-NATO, or rather the USA). Accordingly, the national Armed Forces of Ukraine (a member of the coalition) had their own tasks assigned. Let's say, well, I think so, to close the eastern border of the Republic of Belarus with the Russian Federation with the forces of tactical groups formed on the basis of armored units and formations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the CHERNIGOV region in the direction of GOMEL, MOGILEV and further north. ORSHA in a short time (a day or two) with blocking of the main routes (roads with good coverage and railways) from the Bryansk and Smolensk regions. in order to prohibit the deployment of the RF Armed Forces to help Minsk during the coup. Let’s also say that I believe that these events were developed (planned and documented) and were mastered by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in part during the annual planned combat training and operational training of troops, including in a coalition manner (Defender, Sea Breeze, etc. .), at least until the relevance decreases in connection with the well-known events in the Republic of Belarus and the Republic of Uzbekistan. The actions of ground forces are necessarily supported and covered by the IW, Air Force, Air Defense, etc., including special events by the forces of the DRG and RG with crossing borders for a significant depth. As a rule, for this purpose, plans for types of support are developed carefully and periodically updated, i.e. for air defense and special forces, in view of the air defense, they could not only be up to date, but also in various versions depending on the changed situation and the capabilities of the supplied weapons (means).
      In connection with the above, it is worth noting the information that has appeared about the activity of our Air Force in the Chernigov direction, about the DRG of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that used the bridge across the border river, the supply of air defense systems, air defense systems, aircraft, the fall of the Mi-28 in the Crimea, and if ours carried out bombing attacks there, including including across the bridge - this is not easy. If I understand correctly, the bridge there is quite shallow along the territory on the border itself and the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ equipment was transferred across it to our territory in the forest, then it is possible to transfer the BLD MD air defense system and hide it in the forest for an action operation. Also, it is worth paying attention to the opinion of forum participants - pilots and anti-aircraft gunners - that the defeat of our aviation in this case is an ambush. It is possible that air defense systems with an E-O guidance system or fighters with air defense systems with a V-V database could operate according to pre-prepared plans with verified data and ammunition adapted or selected according to parameters, and they had time for this. From other sources it follows that a search for DRGs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is underway in the forest areas in the border strip of the Bryansk region.
      1. +1
        14 May 2023 21: 19
        You are going the right way, Dmitry!
        An operation a la Blitzkrieg-41 in Belarus is being prepared at a frantic pace. Hence the training in crossing rivers with tanks along the bottom, and the build-up of flank groups. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately!) there are no conventional forces to counter NATO operations to seize Belarus and the Kaliningrad region. We will have to move to the next level, at which, with the correct arrangement of goals and means, it is quite possible to win the current conflict.
        1. ada
          0
          16 May 2023 03: 30
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          You are going the right way, Dmitry! ...

          Greetings!
          This is something I once walked in the 90s, but now it’s not on the trail. I believe that nothing has changed much, and it is very difficult for NATO to change military planning based on long-term strategies.
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          ... An operation a la Blitzkrieg-41 in Belarus is being prepared at a frantic pace ...

          You know, I'm a little confused myself. On the one hand, (having looked at open data on Defenders, etc.) neither Polyandiya nor Nezalezhnaya are currently at the level of readiness to participate in the coalition operation in Belarus according to the plan for establishing peace and security in Europe due to the obvious insufficiency of B-T forces, given the duration of the combined operation of 5-7 days, and the situation in Belarus recently is unfavorable for this or a serious provocation is needed. Restoration and expansion of B-T CHF there, to the design level, was previously scheduled for 2025-2027, but now they are talking about 2030 and beyond...
          I didn’t expect any escalation before 2025.
          On the other hand, the United States, having worked out the issues of transporting equipment to the prepared theater of operations, including by sea, is increasing its accumulation in Europe, in particular in Poland. In addition, staffers previously had about 300 Abrashs in Europe. That is, if it is necessary to maneuver the resources of arms and military equipment, they can quickly transfer tanks and other equipment to complete the B-T SHF of Polyandia and partially build up the Nezalezhnaya at the expense of their neighbor’s 72s. Transportation there is for a week or less. Aviation - European. It turns out that, if necessary and with sufficient guiding “kick”, they can apply part of the previously mastered military planning in a reduced form and launch an operation against Belarus by individual countries in an “independent” proactive manner under a provocative pretext, regardless of the stability of the leadership of the republic without options for preserving it pace and planned deadlines and goals.
          Here. But this is fatal for them, although previously this meridian (from sea to sea) always did not have the prospect of “comfortable living” based on the results of games and other military entertainments of the headquarters. And, if you consider that you are observing a build-up of flank groups (Tribalts?), then three operational directions are preserved, and this is oh. And, you are right, the draw always started as usual, and I didn’t “live” longer... . If we do not bring the entire group, then your forecast will take on real shape. sad , and this is already a delay in our preparations for war. This is not just bad, but very bad, this is where you can feel the consequences of reconciliation with the West and neglect of the covenants of previous generations.
  58. +3
    14 May 2023 04: 11
    It looks like the Black Sea Fleet - we need to take care of aviation!
    Take it beyond the Urals...
  59. The comment was deleted.
  60. +5
    14 May 2023 09: 17
    Quote: Fyodor Sokolov
    This is essentially an attack on Russia.

    In case you suddenly forgot, one of the reasons for the start of the SVO was stated as a potentially expected invasion (attack) of Russia
    Well, according to you, this is what happened, “this is an attack on Russia” (c)
    Shall we announce another SVO?
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. +1
    14 May 2023 10: 06
    Quote: Bez 310
    As far as can be understood from the whole heap of information, our aircraft were shot down from an ambush.
    An ambush is possible if our aircraft fly on a mission along "standard" routes, from the same airfields, at altitudes that allow early detection of air targets, and there is no constant reconnaissance and monitoring of enemy forces and means.
    All this is a criminally thoughtless organization of warfare.
    It's my personal opinion...

    On the morning of May 14, the Ukrainian Army and Air Force did not report any downed aircraft. what
    1. +2
      14 May 2023 16: 06
      You fell on your own, right? If they haven’t declared, then it’s more profitable for them not to declare.
  63. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      14 May 2023 20: 23
      Well, you give how you can arm the population if they don’t trust them, weapons are absolutely not allowed, even if someone else comes in and expresses concern, well, as you wanted.
  64. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      14 May 2023 15: 59
      The answer will be in the style: “They fell.”
  65. 0
    14 May 2023 13: 39
    This is what they always do with cuckolds-hucksters who like goodwill gestures and red lines. What will be next? Saloreikh will be given nuclear weapons, and we will express concern?
  66. +2
    14 May 2023 14: 58
    author-->author-->author, have you seen the video? Su-34 fell without a cabin. the titanium cabin was torn off. what MANPADS??? These are S-300 class missiles. not even aim-120!

    Stop writing nonsense!
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  68. 0
    14 May 2023 17: 13
    Kingdom of heaven to warriors. Eternal glory! If none of the pilots even had time to eject, it means the explosion was strong! Doesn't look like a MANPADS. But what about our mighty air defense?!
    1. 0
      14 May 2023 17: 36
      In general, no one paid attention to the rhetoric of the news over the past 7-9 months?
      The surrender of Kherson, successful regroupings, an attack on the Moscow Kremlin, the blowing up of the Crimean bridge, the battles for Avdiivka, .. How long will it be? The red lines have long since turned brown, judging by the fact...
      1. +1
        15 May 2023 11: 50
        In general, no one paid attention to the rhetoric of the news over the past 7-9 months?
        The surrender of Kherson, successful regroupings, an attack on the Moscow Kremlin, the blowing up of the Crimean bridge, the battles for Avdiivka, .. How long will it be? The red lines have long since turned brown, judging by the fact...

        Do not rock the boat, tspo and other HPP
  69. +5
    14 May 2023 17: 30
    All this is the result of Putin’s failed policies. Our country will continue to lose people and equipment while those people for whom enrichment is above the interests of Russia are in power. Putin once replied that he still needed to save some fat, and then he could think about his successor. This is all his politics, power and money and nothing personal.
  70. 0
    14 May 2023 17: 44
    if these are ASRAAM bullets with a range of 180 km, mounted on ancient MIGs, then what will happen when the F-16s arrive. A repeat of the defeats of the Arab squadrons?

    From an amateur’s point of view: we urgently need to deploy more radars, satellites and anything else that is somehow capable of detecting enemy missile launches. Take in numbers, if not in quality (our radars do not see their missiles, the EPR is not enough). Otherwise they will knock down everything that flies with us.
    1. +2
      14 May 2023 17: 53
      That's what I don't understand. That day the enemy lost two planes, ours lost two planes and two helicopters. Why the panic? Remind me how in 43, before the Battle of Kursk, ours lost 638 aircraft in two days, running into German radars? How did the Americans lose 12 B-29x at once in Korea?
      This is war.
    2. -2
      14 May 2023 22: 33
      Amraam was used for fun. Asraam melee missile.
  71. The comment was deleted.
  72. 0
    14 May 2023 21: 32
    Well, gentlemen, fools!
    I remember when I outlined to you how you can crash our Tu-160s over the Caspian Sea on 01.05.2023/XNUMX/XNUMX, you recommended that I have a hangover. I see your brine is not to your taste.
    I'm not offended, something similar happened to me 47 years ago. Based on data analysis, he predicted how the SAC operation would develop, and the double-lumen bellies didn’t like this. Then, when that’s exactly what happened, they didn’t even apologize.
    NATO caught our commercial generals using a simple trick. Thank God, there was little bloodshed (and if they didn’t have narrow-minded people in the KNSH, they could have played it more interesting).
    The main thing: now we need to be proactive, and, discarding all politeness, prepare for the military defeat of Ukraine, before we are treated to the defeat of Belarus.
  73. +1
    14 May 2023 22: 09
    https://missilery.info/missile/nasams Почитал у Шария, что эти самолеты могли быть поражены комплексом насам.
    Opinion of Russian military officers:

    “With a 95% probability, the ambush was carried out from a NASAMS air defense system, whose crew knew the exact corridor along which the Russian aviation group was supposed to fly. Local residents saw six simultaneous launches in the north of the Chernihiv region.

    The Ukrainian Air Defense Forces have issued instructions to hunt our pilots along the state border. For this purpose, they will use air defense systems supplied from abroad, thereby testing them in the Ukrainian theater of military operations.”

    You can check and find episodes of talk shows on federal channels and listen to how the experts lowered these missiles. I offer excerpts from the reputable TASS:

    These complexes cover Washington and apparently, while Zelensky is away, they dragged them to the border

    It would be good if Russian special forces went in search of this Nasam.
    The AN/TPQ-64 multifunctional radar station, developed on the basis of the AN/TPQ-36A artillery position detection radar, provides detection, identification and simultaneous tracking of up to 60 air targets, as well as guidance of up to three missiles at selected ones. The AN/TPQ-64 radar is a pulse-Doppler, three-coordinate, equipped with a phased array antenna and an integrated interrogator “friend or foe” type Mk.XII. The radar surveys the space due to the mechanical rotation of the antenna in azimuth and electronic scanning in elevation. The operation of the radar is controlled using a fire control station computer. The radar generates a needle-type radiation pattern with a low level of side lobes and is capable of compressing pulses, selecting moving targets, and changing the power and type of emitted signal. The radar operates in the frequency range 8-10 GHz (field of view in azimuth - 360°, in elevation - 60°, rate of coverage in azimuth - 180° per second, accuracy in determining coordinates in range - 30m, in azimuth - 0.2°, in angle elevation - 0.17°, range resolution 150m, azimuth - 2°, elevation - 1.7°). Deployment and preparation time for work is 10 minutes. All station equipment is installed on a towed trailer.

    To ensure combat operation in a complex jamming environment, the NASAMS complex is equipped with optoelectronic guidance - NTAS (Norwegian Tracking Adjunct System).
    If you only defend yourself from us with lasers, those that sometimes knock airplanes off course.

    How to deploy a rocket in the air
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/201503011641-cqdv.htm

    The performance characteristics of the NASAMS air defense system are as follows.

    The range of destruction of the NASAMS air defense system is 20 km (with the AMRAAM ER missile 40 km).
    Destruction range of aircraft versions of missiles:
    AIM-120A/B: 55–75 km.
    AIM-120C-5: 105 km.
    AIM-120C-7: 120 km.
    AIM-120D: 180 km.

    The complex itself is quite young: the development of the first generation NASAMS started in the early 90s, after Western experts came to understand the essence of network-centric wars. This understanding is reflected in the architecture of the complex: launchers and radar are separated from control centers. Thanks to this, NASAMS operators can work on air targets without fear of retaliatory strikes.

    Even if the enemy detects where the missile was launched from or successfully uses anti-radar ammunition, in the worst case, only part of the hardware will be destroyed. The specialists operating the system will remain safe and sound and, depending on the situation, will leave the dangerous area or activate backup radars and launchers and continue the battle. It is thanks to this design that the complex has enormous combat stability and is defined in English-language sources as “distributed.”

    The survivability of the system is increased due to the fact that all modules are mounted on all-terrain vehicles, which allows them to quickly change positions, and the exchange of information within the combat control system is carried out both via a radio channel and via a field cable. When using the latter, it is in principle impossible to disrupt the transmission of data from the command post to the launchers using electronic warfare, or to detect elements of the complex using electronic reconnaissance.

    And under these conditions, the Americans are transferring two NASAMS batteries to Kyiv (most likely in the NASAMS-2 version). Each of them has eight radars, an optical-electronic target detection station and 12 launchers. Each launcher contains six missiles. In total, the Ukrainian Armed Forces receive 144 missiles. If we assume that their effectiveness is only 20% (in reality, this figure will most likely be higher), this means that the batteries transferred to the Ukrainians could destroy 29 of our aircraft. These are huge losses, which our command, of course, will not accept.
  74. +1
    14 May 2023 22: 23
    Who is faster, more precisely, “cunning”? NATO NASAMS against Russian missiles
    https://www.ridus.ru/kto-bystree-tochnee-hitree-natovskij-nasams-protiv-rossijskih-raket-405415.html

    Some time ago, a video report was published in Telegram channels and Ukrainian media about combat duty in one of the central regions of Ukraine of a NASAMS anti-aircraft missile platoon, which manages to intercept several Russian X-101 and 3M14T Caliber-NK missiles.

    There is nothing extraordinary in this episode. It is well known that modular Norwegian-American air defense systems can easily operate against low-altitude tactical and cruise missiles due to the presence of high-energy active radar homing heads on the AIM-120B/C-5 AMRAAM air combat missiles. These heads are capable of continuing interception even if cruise missiles go beyond the “screen” of the terrain or urban development of regional centers.

    "Careless" radar
    The subject of close attention in this case is the absolutely careless use by the NASAMS crew of the AN/MPQ-64F1 Sentinel battery multifunctional radar to issue target designation to the homing heads of AIM-120B missiles, while in the conditions of the functioning of electronic reconnaissance means of the Russian Aerospace Forces, enemy anti-aircraft missile divisions usually used passive optical-electronic systems for combat modes of air defense systems.

    No easy task
    Theoretically, the position of the Sentinel radar can be revealed by radiation in survey mode using the 14F145 Lotos-S1 electronic reconnaissance satellites, which are elements of the distributed aperture of the Liana global satellite maritime space reconnaissance system. After this, the object can be struck by a hypersonic aeroballistic missile Kh-47M2 “Dagger”.

    Unfortunately, the effectiveness of this technique is very doubtful, since all combat duty routes of the MiG-31K with Kinzhal missiles on suspensions are currently under permanent monitoring by infrared reconnaissance satellites of the US Air Force and each launch of the X-47M2 will be instantly recorded by infrared radiation from the operating torch accelerating solid propellant rocket engine. After this, the corresponding notification will be instantly relayed via closed communication channels to the crews of the deployed NASAMS air defense systems, and they will deactivate the AN/MPQ-64F1 radar (turning off the radiation) and within three to five minutes they will collapse the antenna post and either change their position or move it to a reliable shelter in one of the nearby industrial zones.

    As you can see, with modern orbital optical-electronic reconnaissance systems at the enemy’s disposal, suppressing his rear anti-aircraft anti-access zones and A2/AD maneuver becomes an extremely difficult task.

    At the terminal part of the trajectory, these blocks provide missiles with the ability to perform lightning-fast transverse throws on a trajectory with overloads of up to 62 units, which is enough to destroy aerodynamic and ballistic objects carrying out anti-aircraft maneuvers with overloads of 25–30 g. As a result, these missiles are capable of countering not only the strategic Kalibr-NK and Kh-101 missiles, but also, to some extent, the 9M723-1 Iskander-M quasi-ballistic missiles. High-energy modifications of AD4A active radar seekers are capable of capturing targets with an ESR of 0,007–0,01 square meters at a distance of about five kilometers.

    Nevertheless, the disabling of the Arabel battery radar and the firing positions of the SAMP-T launchers can be carried out through a complex all-aspect strike by kamikaze drones "Geran-2" and tactical Kh-59MK2 missile launchers according to data from optical-electronic and electronic reconnaissance satellites. The most effective measure to counter the SAMP-T complexes, and soon the Patriot PAC-3MSE, is their destruction by the same “Daggers” and X-101 even at the moment the railway trains enter Ukrainian territory, which, unfortunately, we still do not see .

    These systems then need to be calculated; maybe pilotless aircraft would help.
    Now that we can fly wildly, we must carefully look for ways to detect these missile launches. And perhaps strikes with cluster munitions to disable the radars.
    Now unmanned aircraft would come in handy to detect these radars
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  77. 0
    15 May 2023 01: 42
    Quote: Dmitry_24rus
    In general, no one paid attention to the rhetoric of the news over the past 7-9 months?
    The surrender of Kherson, successful regroupings, an attack on the Moscow Kremlin, the blowing up of the Crimean bridge, the battles for Avdiivka, .. How long will it be? The red lines have long since turned brown, judging by the fact...

    Judging by the rhetoric of the media, everything is fine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are grinding thousands a day, the offensive is underway, the Leopards are shit and the Ukrainians won’t help, they are fighting their way through with Bassoon)
  78. 0
    15 May 2023 01: 46
    Quote: Ohsetin
    But does it really respond to heat-seeking MANPADS?

    Why radars and ground-based radars? Americans in Vietnam maintained direct communication between the aircraft and ground-based radars...
  79. 0
    15 May 2023 03: 12
    "Information" worthy of attention!!! - what is this? or the main main task is to check in. How much of this garbage is floating around on the internet.
  80. 0
    15 May 2023 07: 00
    ...Well, these bastards have the impudence to shoot down the presidential “aircraft” too...
    ...Maybe, after all, stop playing SVO-oshka with them?!!..
    ...Maybe it’s high time to start fighting the NATO-Bandera henchmen - in full?!!..
  81. 0
    15 May 2023 08: 11
    It was very lucky that it was not the IL-76 and its personnel that crashed.
  82. -1
    15 May 2023 08: 21
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    If you had the honor and conscience, you would do it. For for years you have been "singing" here that everything is fine, and we are ahead of the rest. That the king is a grandmaster, that the army has no analogues in the world, and the like. As a result, people pay with their lives, and you are indirectly guilty of this.

    I don’t understand something, this is written to me by someone who has been caught in a lie more than once, trying to stutter about honor and conscience?! Have you ever had them? Didn't they give me too much credit? Not? But at least they piss in your eyes.
    It is you and others like you who purposefully spread gossip and create a split in society. How clumsily you summed it up. Here, of course, you should learn a little, because where you are and where the logic is is visible to the naked eye.
    And here's another thing. You are not capable of anything except splashing around in slop. And this “zeal for the people” of yours, in light of what you do, looks weirdly feigned.
    Unlike such crap throwers, I help the army, and on a regular basis. I very much doubt that you spent even a penny on her needs.
    I hope they will take you by the trunk and ask what you did when the country was having a hard time.
  83. +1
    15 May 2023 12: 27
    Slowly, WAR is knocking on the door of the Russian Federation with a sledgehammer ..... What are we going to do? Throw caps again?
  84. +1
    15 May 2023 15: 00
    As an assumption (since carriers of active electronic warfare systems were shot down). Or maybe the HARM missile was modernized and they launched it not at air defense but at our helicopters and planes?
  85. 0
    15 May 2023 18: 23
    judging by the video of the Mi8 defeat, the missile flew straight into the cockpit, these are unlikely to be IR missiles. Stugna? then the version of the saboteur ambush is relevant
  86. 0
    16 May 2023 09: 53
    Has the version of “friendly fire” already been discarded? With such intensity of use by the enemy of UAVs and, most importantly, with recently arrived, longer-range cruise missiles, who knows...