The history of the confrontation between Lomonosov and Miller on the issue of "Norman theory"

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The history of the confrontation between Lomonosov and Miller on the issue of "Norman theory"

The most interesting episode of the many years of confrontation between the Russian scientist Mikhail Lomonosov and his eternal antagonist Gerard Miller is the dispute over the so-called "Norman theory". In modern historiography, this dispute is interpreted rather vulgarly: it is argued that Lomonosov, either out of envy or out of false patriotism, attacked the progressive historian Miller, who was something like a modern member of the Academy of Sciences and possessed advanced scientific tools, unlike Lomonosov, which is to the detriment historical tried to present his homeland in the most favorable context.

Miller was born in Westphalia in 1705 and arrived in Russia in November 1725, where he became actively involved in the work of the newly created Academy. One of the leaders of the Academy, Johann Daniel Schumacher, at first patronized the young compatriot in every possible way, but subsequently relations between them deteriorated significantly, which was one of the reasons why Miller, for whom it became unbearable to stay within the walls of the Academy, went on the Great Northern Expedition, where he spent the next ten years.



For a speech in 1749 at a ceremonial meeting of the Academy in honor of Empress Elizabeth, Miller prepared a report in which he outlined the then-new "Norman theory", according to which it was assumed that the Russian state was founded by the Varangians, therefore the name "Rus" is supposedly of Scandinavian origin. This theory was not new at that time - Miller had previously set out his hypotheses regarding the Scandinavian origin of Rus' in his articles published in various scientific journals.

Miller's report caused a sharp rejection on the part of Lomonosov, who accused Miller of the political background of the "Norman theory" and demanded that the Academy ban the presented report. Lomonosov, in addition to historical inconsistencies in Miller's theory, also found ideological underpinnings. In his opinion, Miller did not show any facts of the glory of the Russian people, their numerous military victories, but presented everything as if the Scandinavians managed to gain control over Russia. Lomonosov was most outraged by the fact that Miller practically did not rely on Russian chronicles in his work, but operated with information set forth in the Scandinavian sagas.

Lomonosov was supported by the Russian and part of the Western scientific community, the report was recognized as politicized, Miller was forbidden to read it, and was also demoted for six months in his academic rank and removed from his post with a decrease in salary. This conflict prompted Lomonosov to conduct historical research himself and write two scientific works on Russian history.

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  1. 0
    April 18 2023 08: 42
    it was assumed that the Russian state was founded by the Varangians

    Maybe the Varangians, but why did he get that the Varangians are certainly Scandinavians? what
    1. +3
      April 18 2023 08: 49
      Quote: paul3390
      Maybe the Varangians, but where did he get that the Varangians are certainly Scandinavians

      1. -1
        April 18 2023 09: 04
        Peter I introduced the chronology from the Nativity of Christ, and so, year after year, the Russians today counted 7531 years from the creation of the world (made peace) in the Star Temple ... And no one disputes this chronology .. yet. Too little time has passed for information about this to be erased from the sources ... The whole story has been rewritten hundreds of times .. Milestones remain, but are presented in a new light, in one that is beneficial to the winner ...

        Examples of Slavic records (for 2014 from R.Kh.).
        Summer 7522 from Creation in the Star Temple (5508 BC)
        Summer 13022 from the Great Cold (Great Cooling).
        40018 Summer from the Third Arrival of Whiteman Perun.
        44558 Summer from the Creation of the Great Kolo Russenia.
        106792 summer from the Founding of Asgard of Iria (from 9 Taylet).
        111820 summer from the Great Migration from Daariya.
        Summer 143004 from the Three Moon Period.
        Summer 153380 from Assa Dei.
        165044 Summer from Tara Time.
        185780 Summer from Tula Time.
        211700 Summer from Time of Swag.
        Summer 273908 from Time h'Arra.
        460532 Summer from the Time of the Gift.
        Summer 604388 from the Time of Three Suns.

        These are just the main big events from which the reckoning was conducted.
        1. 0
          April 18 2023 09: 19
          Smoker, your weed is strong, you need to share.
          1. +1
            April 18 2023 09: 28
            And what's with the grass?
            in your opinion, Jewish calendars or Greek myths have the right to circulate, but Slavic is nonsense?!!!
            1. 0
              April 18 2023 09: 32
              There are no Slavic calendars from the Slavic religion or anything left, all neo-paganism is a modern fiction.
              1. 0
                April 18 2023 09: 53
                Quote: Cartalon
                all neo-paganism is a modern invention.

                Excuse me, what are you smoking?
                you know that 60 percent of Orthodox holidays are distorted Slavic
                even the holy trinity is torn from Slavic mythology, not to mention many customs that we do not understand
                Do you know, for example, why it is customary to let a cat into a new house first?
                Where does the term "mor" come from?
                who is the three-headed gorynych snake from fairy tales or why is Kashchei immortal and who was he?
                can you describe the origin of the word live?!
                can you tell me something about Paraskeva Pyatnitsa?
                sometimes it's better not to write about what you're not in the tooth with your foot
              2. +1
                April 18 2023 10: 28
                Quote: Cartalon
                There are no Slavic calendars from the Slavic religion or anything left, all neo-paganism is a modern fiction.

                I support, there are no sources left from those times. The last pagans disappeared in the 14th century. Everything that is new (including the star temple) is a remake from Akhinevich and his ilk hi
                1. -1
                  April 18 2023 10: 48
                  no sources left from those times

                  Procopius of Caesarea is not a source ...
                  "The Tale of Bygone Years" is not a source ...
                  Sailed ...
                  Sincerely
                  1. +3
                    April 18 2023 11: 46
                    Quote: nobody75
                    "The Tale of Bygone Years" is not a source ...

                    and there is a lot about the "star temple" and other pagan delights?
                    1. -2
                      April 18 2023 11: 51
                      They believe that only one god, the creator of lightning, is the master of everything, and bulls are sacrificed to him and other sacred rites are performed. They do not know fate and do not at all recognize that it has any power in relation to people, and when they are about to face death, whether they are stricken with illness or in a war in a dangerous situation, they make promises if they are saved, immediately offer a sacrifice to God for their soul, and, having escaped death, they sacrifice what they promised, and think that their salvation was bought at the price of this sacrifice. They revere rivers, and nymphs, and all sorts of other demons, make sacrifices to all of them, and with the help of these victims, they also perform fortune-telling.

                      Procopius of Caesarea "War with the Goths"
                      Sincerely
                      1. +2
                        April 18 2023 13: 04
                        Quote: nobody75
                        Procopius of Caesarea "War with the Goths"
                        Sincerely
                        Well, these are common words. Compare with abra-kadabra from a smoker, about a star temple, etc. I do not question the existence of the ancient Slavs and their pagan beliefs. I'm talking about neo-paganism, which they are trying to recreate from scratch, in fact. Not relying on real sources (which are gone), but inventing all sorts of "Book of Veles", "Slavic-Aryan Vedas" and other mura hi
                      2. -3
                        April 18 2023 14: 14
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        and other rubbish

                        So all the same, where does the word pestilence come from?
                        about the holy trinity the same if possible
                      3. -2
                        April 18 2023 14: 35
                        Aryans existed. And the state of Eranshahr too. References to the arias can even be found in the "Shahname" ...
                        Sincerely
                      4. +1
                        April 18 2023 15: 10
                        Quote: nobody75
                        Aryans existed. And the state of Eranshahr too. References to the arias can even be found in the "Shahname" ...
                        Sincerely
                        Am I talking to a robot? Best wishes hi
                2. -3
                  April 18 2023 11: 42
                  Quote: Stirbjorn
                  there are no sources left from those times.

                  can you answer the origin of the word pestilence?!!!
                  or something about the triglav to tell?
                  the sources have not gone anywhere, they are preserved in the traditions of fairy tales
        2. 0
          April 19 2023 13: 32
          7531 year from the creation of the world according to the Byzantine chronology
  2. +1
    April 18 2023 08: 52
    The dispute about the Varangians / Ruriks still resembles this episode more:
    1. -2
      April 18 2023 08: 57
      Not true. The dispute with the Normanists is an attempt to answer the question: "Is Russia a part of Europe?". Are there historical common roots in the face of the "Great Norman Civilization"?
      Sincerely
      1. +4
        April 18 2023 09: 26
        The dispute with the Normanist is whether we rely on sources and archeology or write a fetez.
        1. -3
          April 18 2023 09: 31
          Quote: Cartalon
          we rely on sources and archeology

          especially funny about archeology, do you know how many contradictions there are in this "science"?
          1. +1
            April 18 2023 11: 06
            What contradictions, finding new finds and new versions are not a contradiction, the science it develops is an unrelated scripture.
            1. -4
              April 18 2023 11: 54
              Quote: Cartalon
              What contradictions

              pre-Columbian period

              2500 age

              rock - 400 million years

              destruction of Mohenjo-Daro
        2. +2
          April 18 2023 09: 51
          I rely on sources. Please find "Danish law" in Russkaya Pravda.
          Sincerely
          1. 0
            April 18 2023 11: 09
            It’s like I’m not a linguist, so I probably won’t find it, but why look for it there Russian truth was written when the Vikings were mostly assimilated.
            1. -3
              April 18 2023 11: 38
              Why didn't they assimilate in England? Why was there a whole region with its own rules and laws?
              Sincerely
              1. 0
                April 20 2023 07: 56
                Quote: nobody75
                Why didn't they assimilate in England? Why was there a whole region with its own rules and laws?

                uh ... In general, Normandy is located in France))) So the Romans captured Gaul in the 1st century BC. They taught the Gauls to read and write. The Slavic peoples did not know how to read and write in their native language until the 9th century.
                1. 0
                  April 20 2023 08: 37
                  In general, Normandy is located in France

                  During the described period, there was no "France" as a national state. And Normandy, as a "country of the Normans" was created by Hrolf "Pedestrian" in the XNUMXth century AD. e.
                  Sincerely
          2. 0
            April 20 2023 07: 47
            Quote: nobody75
            I rely on sources. Please find "Danish law" in Russkaya Pravda.

            There are no sources. The original "Russian Truth" has not been preserved. Its text appears only in sources from the 13th century. This is the same as studying documents written by Peter 1 according to school textbooks of the 21st century)))
            And the fact that The Tale of Bygone Years has a lot in common with Scandinavian fairy tales is a fact.
            1. 0
              April 20 2023 08: 38
              There is no need to call sagas fairy tales ... "The Saga of Eyamunda" has not been preserved either?
              Sincerely
              1. 0
                April 20 2023 09: 22
                Quote: nobody75
                "The Saga of Eyamunda" has not been preserved?

                There is the same story as with the "Tale of Bygone Years" Retellings of the late 14th century (the time of the Battle of Kulikovo) have been preserved
                1. 0
                  April 20 2023 09: 33
                  King Yarisleif replied:

                  - And we really need your squad and management, because you are smart and brave men, Nordmanns[i][/i]; but I do not know how much you will demand a salary for your service.

                  Thus, Yaroslav did not consider himself a Norman !!!
                  Sincerely
              2. 0
                April 20 2023 09: 33
                In those years of the 14th-15th centuries, any chronicle began from the creation of the world. The chronicler briefly described Adam, Eve, the Great Flood, etc.
                And this foreword of the chronicle is called in Russia "the tale of bygone years." In the Scandinavian chronicles "The Saga of ..." depending on the nationality of the author.
  3. +1
    April 18 2023 09: 04
    The video is really interesting and worth watching, and not writing any game here.
    1. -1
      April 18 2023 15: 06
      Why do you, Normanists, constantly play with words in the course of discourse. For example, in the history of England there is a clear understanding that the Normans are those who came with William the Conqueror, and not King Harold and not Harold Hardrada. Why do you call Rurik "Norman"?
      Sincerely
      1. 0
        April 19 2023 00: 39
        Who calls Rurik Norman?
        Yes, they called Rerik of Jutland, but this is not accurate
        And you are just playing with words, Normans, Varangians, Vikings, in different places they called them differently
        1. -1
          April 19 2023 08: 15
          Normans, Varangians, Vikings, in different places they were called differently

          Q.E.D! "Normanism" is a pseudo-scientific doctrine within the framework of the "History of Europe". The purpose of which is to prove the common history of European peoples and the inevitability of the formation of supranational dictatorial structures - the EU and NATO!
          Let it be known to you that "Viking" is a dirty word! If you called Rurik like that, he would be very offended ...
          Sincerely
      2. 0
        April 20 2023 08: 01
        Quote: nobody75
        Why do you, Normanists, constantly play with words in the course of discourse. For example, in the history of England there is a clear understanding that the Normans are those who came with William the Conqueror, and not King Harold and not Harold Hardrada. Why do you call Rurik "Norman"?

        Because there are original written sources describing the Battle of Hastings. The original "Tale of Bygone Years" is missing. We have only lists of the post-Mongolian period, which are very different from each other.
        1. 0
          April 20 2023 08: 59
          Does this somehow cancel the historical fact that relatives fought under Hastings? Only some are "Normans", while others are not ... The question of who is "Saxon" and who is "Norman" excited England until the XNUMXth century. Conspiracy theorists say that it still excites ... There is nothing like this in the history of Russia.
          Sincerely
  4. -1
    April 19 2023 09: 13
    Quote: Cartalon
    There are no Slavic calendars


    Um. So not? And what calendar was used in pre-Petrine times?
    What dates were indicated in all these annals?
    Now, according to the Old Slavonic calendar, it is 7531. And in Hebrew - only 5783.
    Awful, huh? The Russian goyim have an ancient Jewish calendar. laughing
  5. 0
    April 20 2023 13: 43
    Quote: nobody75
    During the described period, there was no "France" as a national state. And Normandy, as a "country of the Normans" was created by Hrolf "Pedestrian" in the XNUMXth century AD. e.


    But there was already a kingdom with its capital in Paris. And Rolf de Marcher (Jarl Rollo) took Paris under siege, after which he bargained for himself the land: first the county, and then the duchy of Normandy, which was in vassal dependence (albeit formal) from the French king.
    It is characteristic that the order in this duchy was strikingly different from what it was in Novgorod during the time of Rurik (and later too).
    1. -1
      April 20 2023 13: 53
      In those days, Paris was still Lutetia ... At least in terms of fortification. Tellingly, the Norman civilization is a rural civilization, unlike Old Rus'.
      Sincerely
  6. -1
    April 20 2023 13: 50
    Quote: nobody75
    The purpose of which is to prove the common history of European peoples and the inevitability of the formation of supranational dictatorial structures - the EU and NATO!


    First of all, the purpose of "Normanism" in Russia is to strengthen the legitimization of power, to put power and the elite much higher than the people. Like our rulers originally belonged to a higher, more developed race, so their dominance must be undeniable.
    This became especially relevant after the crisis of power in the Time of Troubles, when the autocratic monarchy showed its failure, and the state was saved by the efforts of the "thin rabble." Moreover, a new tsar, a new dynasty was elected at the Zemsky Sobor, where not only the elite had a voice. It was then that the myth of an external source of statehood and power in our country became relevant, and was readily supported in the West.

    "Even a chicken is rushing at My command!" Without a king - well, nothing! Because the kings are of a different breed, of the highest, not like the blue-footed Slavs ... laughing
  7. -1
    April 20 2023 13: 57
    Quote: ism_ek
    The Slavic peoples did not know how to read and write in their native language until the 9th century.


    Oh really? How did they deserve the honor of listening to sermons and having sacred books in their native language, while the "educated" French and Germans listened to sermons and read in Latin, which the absolute majority did not understand?
    The first Bible in German did not appear until the time of Gutenberg.
    The Slavic peoples had their own alphabet before Cyril and Methodius. They invented the alphabet (and the Byzantine monks only modified it). Slavs, correctly - Slovenes, because they were called that because they owned the word, that is, literacy.
    1. 0
      April 20 2023 20: 37
      The Slavic peoples had their own alphabet before Cyril and Methodius.

      For example?
  8. 0
    April 21 2023 08: 41
    Quote: nobody75
    In those days, Paris was still Lutetia ... At least in terms of fortification. Tellingly, the Norman civilization is a rural civilization, unlike Old Rus'.
    Sincerely


    From the 4th century AD it was already called "Parisii".
    Come on ... in all the "civilizations" of that time, the agrarian way of life prevailed. And among the Normans - sea robbery prevailed, they themselves could not feed themselves, so they robbed who they could rob, including fellow farmers.
    William the Conqueror and his companions did not invade England to plow the land. He divided the country between his warriors and began to sit on the neck of the locals. And the locals would have tried to point out the door to the most seedy count-landlord, as Novgorodians (and not only them) more than once acted with Russian princes.
  9. 0
    April 21 2023 08: 48
    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    For example?


    For example - "Cap", which had 49 letters.
    Turn on your brains ... if Kim really created a writing system for the Slavs "from scratch", then what kind of sample would they choose? They are, as it were, Byzantines ... that is, they would take Greek. Did the Greeks have an "alphabet"? The Greeks have always used the alphabet. And the difference between the alphabet and the alphabet is fundamental.
    So Cyril and Methodius would have created the Slavic alphabet. But alas, the alphabet appeared - Cyrillic and Glagolitic. The letters became smaller, and their spelling was changed, closer to the Greek counterparts (for the convenience of scribes).
    Since the Slavs were literate, they had to preach among them in their native language for the Slavs. The potential flock did not just flap their ears (as in Europe), but tried to understand the meaning of the sermons and "sacred texts". Hence - all the troubles.
  10. 0
    2 May 2023 18: 56
    In V. Chivilikhin's book "Memory" an exhaustive assessment of the "Norman theory" is given. Miller wrote what he was ordered to. Unfortunately, this phenomenon is now on stream. History has long turned from a science into a political tool. The war in the 20th and 21st centuries begins in the corridors of the university, in the trenches it only continues. Our party elite could not understand this in the 20th century, maybe it will reach the modern one.