American edition: F-35 fighters transferred to Europe faced the problem of detecting Russian S-300 air defense systems

American fifth-generation F-35 fighters are not always able to detect Russian air defense systems, despite the presence of special equipment. This is a problem faced by US Air Force pilots deployed with aircraft to Europe to patrol the airspace near the Russian and Belarusian borders. AirForceTimes writes about it.

The US Air Force sent F-35 fighters to the eastern flank of NATO, as flights near the Russian borders against the backdrop of a special operation in Ukraine that have begun are an ideal place to test aircraft. In February last year, the Americans deployed fighters from the 388th Fighter Wing of the US Air Force and the 419th Fighter Wing of the Reserve to Germany, the planes were initially located at the German airbase at Shpagdahl.

F-35A pilots flew in the airspace near the Russian and Belarusian borders, paying special attention to the Kaliningrad region. The task was to open the Russian air defense system for the "NATO leadership." The pilots involved in the operation said that the aircraft coped well with this and that in general it was "the best machine", but there was a problem with the Russian S-300 systems. As it turned out, the F-35 could not determine the location of this complex if "digital evasion equipment" worked on it. In this case, the pilot could visually observe the complex.

We are considering the Sa-20. I know it's Sa-20. Intelligence says there is a Sa-20 there, but now my plane does not identify it as such, because this Sa-20 is operating, potentially, in military reserve mode, which we have not seen before

- said Colonel Craig Andrle.

Another F-35 pilot who took part in flights near the Russian border admitted that despite the confrontation, there were no provocations from Russian and Belarusian pilots.

They do the same thing that we do (...) We just looked at each other. No direct interaction and nothing unprofessional on either side

Colonel Brad Bashor added.

Comments

[Magic archer]

Not a big problem. It will be necessary to connect satellites, bring Avaks and numerous scouts.

[Grandfather Fichteau]

with the problem of detecting Russian S-300 air defense systems

Lord, this is not a problem .. The problem is S-400 -500 !!!!!!!!!
The Russians have not used anything like that yet .. Now we are wetting the "brothers" and your mercenaries, mind you .. with old Soviet weapons .. Well, we are experiencing something))))
We don't take anyone prisoner!

[smart ass]

Grandfather do not pour more moonshine! Until I overwhelmed everyone)))

[Grandfather Fichteau]

Quote: Clever man

Grandfather do not pour more moonshine! Until I overwhelmed everyone)))

Vasya does not need to envy ..
I smell such genes .. Which got out with the stars!

[blackGRAIL]

Well, it was necessary to distort the article in such a way and once again invent a win. Original article:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/03/31/the-us-air-force-sent-f-35s-to-defend-nato-heres-what-it-learned/

There was no detection problem. The point is that the S-300 signature available in the NATO databases / libraries did not match their actual radiation. The air defense systems were perfectly detected (and were available for destruction), but were identified by on-board systems as an unknown air defense system, although they were visually identified as S-300. Actually, the planes were sent to collect this data.

[Diger]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

Well, it was necessary to distort the article in such a way and once again invent a win.

This is called the name of the propagandist on the salary.
A disgusting creature.
Poetov auto nameless and no links
Although

Quote: unknown car

The F-35 could not determine the location of this complex if "digital evasion equipment" worked on it.

From the article

Their mission: to vacuum as much electronic data as possible from surface-to-air missiles and (enemy) aircraft surrounding Eastern Europe in order to build a map to guide NATO operations.

[bayard]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

There was no detection problem. The point is that the S-300 signature available in the NATO databases / libraries did not match their actual radiation. The air defense systems were perfectly detected (and were available for destruction), but were identified by on-board systems as an unknown air defense system, although they were visually identified as S-300. Actually, the planes were sent to collect this data.

It's just that the S-300 has updated the radar.
And by definition, a radar operating on radiation cannot be invisible.

[Ruslan Saidov]

With 300 v4 it outperforms 400 in everything, I personally know from operating experience ... They are both significantly more expensive and very few, plus a knockdown coefficient of 0.97, a small missile, a large one is about the same as for s400 missiles from s300 p and other old versions , they have a knockdown coefficient of 0.47 approximately ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Ruslan Saidov

the s400 has missiles from the s300 p and other old versions, they have a knockdown coefficient of 0.47 approximately ...

Sir, it seems to me that you, my dear, are sculpting a "humpback".
This is what happens? Our kulibins, instead of "improving" the air defense system, engaged in wrecking and TWICE on the new hardware worsened the efficiency indicator of the air defense system ???
This cannot be, by definition: the state commission would not even allow such an air defense system to take part in the competition, let alone production and commissioning!
Therefore, go to another site, to a more gullible public, and there disperse fakes to discredit our S-400, for which the Arabs lined up in line!
AHA.

[Arkadich]

It would be nice to read about the mutual respect of military personnel from unfriendly countries if not for the question "What the hell are you doing near the borders of Russia?"

[Fizik13]

Quote: Arkadich

"What the hell are you doing at the borders of Russia?"

Here I am talking about too!
Isn't it time for us to move on to testing the heavy strike UAV S-70 "Hunter" in a real situation.
Well, at least from the territory of Cuba to fly near Miami or Cape Canaveral.

[hector]

Quote from Fizik13

Well, at least from the territory of Cuba to fly near Miami or Cape Canaveral.

After the scam by labeled and EBNem countries of the social community, it’s not easy to return trust, oh, how difficult, Russia will have to work hard for this.

[rotmistr60]

this Sa-20 is operating, potentially, in military reserve mode, which we have not seen before

You haven't seen much yet. But it’s still interesting how a pilot can visually observe a Russian air defense system while flying not over Russian territory. Or were they lined up along the border line especially for the Americans?

[DMFalke]

I also got crazy from this line - "Hoya pilots visually observe." How can you visually observe the S-300, are they displayed on the border strip? Instead of border posts the journalist again fucked the military and scientist

[D16]

From a height of 10-12 km, the OLS can "look" far. Especially in good weather.

[Nexcom]

nothing more than looking through 15x binoculars while sitting in the cockpit.

[Diger]

Quote: Nexcom

none other than 15x binoculars look, sitting in the cockpit

I would not refuse such binoculars (with offal, of course)

the same manufacturer (Collins Aerospace) makes "binoculars" for
• Camera lenses for rovers exploring Mars
• Juno Jupiter Mission - Wide Angle Lens for Spacecraft
Junocam
• Lenses for tracking stars
------------------------

[Sergey Muravyov]

The pilots are not observing visually - the instruments detect the S-300, they simply cannot identify what kind of complex it is

[Motorhead]

I will tell you a secret. The entire calosphere is visible from spit to spit from the porthole of an ordinary passenger plane flying by.

[Diger]

Quote from DMFalke

How can you visually observe the S-300, are they displayed on the border strip?

1. They fly along the border of Poland-RF, Poland-RB, or along territorial waters (UN Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 <22,2 km). And Lithuania-RF, Lithuania-RB
Kaliningrad region, the maximum length of the region from west to east is 205 km, from north to south - 108 km.

The Republic of Belarus is slightly better, but the length of Belarus is only: from north to south - 560 km, from west to east - 650 km.
2.Visibility range

from a flight altitude of 3000M, an object with a height of 5M (5P85Sv in combat mode) will theoretically visible at a distance of 215 km
and 40V6MD in the deployed position for 230 km.
And if 5000 m, then:
(you can indulge yourself)

Line of sight range calculation - astronomical calculator

3. Bayraktar TB2 has an ECO camera (Canadian air reconnaissance station) CMX-15D Wescam with a fixing range limit of 50 km (theoretical) 640x480 (NTSC / PAL), well, or the Turkish Aselsan CATS. A little worse. What they proved in the NWO. Not gift potential, but situational awareness. everyone saw: tank columns, O. Zmeinny, "Moscow", Raptors.
And the F-35 has a perfect Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) or Advanced EOTS

. The first is a daytime television channel built on charge-coupled devices (CCD arrays). The second is a night-time thermal imaging channel operating in the long (8–12 μm) and middle (3–5 μm) parts of the IR range. The third channel is represented by a laser range finder-target designator with a laser spot direction finder operating at a wavelength of 1,06 and 1,57 microns that is safe for sight.
OES can detect air targets at ranges of 100 km or more, tank-type targets - at ranges over 20 km, targets such as "bridge" - 50-60 km. They are able to simultaneously track 15-20 targets, while maintaining the mode of review of the rest of the space.

/ and I will assume that they also underestimate the data, since in the late 8s and early 90s the F-15s were already equipped with an optical system with video recording, which allows you to see an object such as a TU-22M aircraft at a distance of about 70 km

Quote from DMFalke

s-300, are they posted on the border strip?

-for Kaliningrad (what is on the state border, what is inside the region. Everything is one)

For RB a little better, but not much

Components of the air defense system of the Republic of Belarus. Known active positions of the S-300 air defense system are highlighted in red; in blue - radar stations (RLS).

[cold wind]

Here is a screenshot taken by CMX-15D Wescam at a distance of ~53 km.

Everything is clearly visible on the commercial OLS. Not like a tank, a car model can be determined.
The F-35 data is clearly underestimated at times. The principle of information about its radar, OLS, electronic warfare cannot be trusted. The data about them is artificially processed.

[Bingo]

The bottom line is that the S-300s operate in a different mode, that's the point ... And the article itself
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/03/31/the-us-air-force-sent-f-35s-to-defend-nato-heres-what-it-learned/
The fact that NATO forced reconnaissance of air defense positions along the entire length of the western border of the Russian Federation, that's what I had to write about

[Diger]

Quote from Bingo

The fact that NATO forced reconnaissance of air defense positions along the entire length of the western border of the Russian Federation, that's what I had to write about

Literally, they "pass through with a vacuum cleaner" through all air defense positions.
and the author .... The author is not paid for the truth.
He can’t sit with a combat crew on an air defense system when repelling a NATO strike on the air defense of Belarus and Kaliningrad

[AlexVas44]

...No direct interaction and nothing unprofessional on either side

Blinken, Kirby and their ilk haven't found out about it yet. There will be a howl about unprofessionalism.

[Nexcom]

Yeah, it will probably be like this: the C300 complexes extremely unprofessional did not reveal themselves in front of the American pilots., Quietly standing in combat readiness and not shining

[Egoza]

Quote: AlexVas44

Blinken, Kirby and their ilk haven't found out about it yet. There will be a howl about unprofessionalism.

The colonel will be reprimanded "for an unprofessional statement about the enemy")))

[VicktorVR]

Do you think the colonel "psak" without permission?
Those in power in the United States are heterogeneous; several groups are fighting there (including for defense budgets).
Of course, a colonel can get a hat from a general of competitors ...

[sub307]

Quote: Arkadich

"What the hell are you doing at the borders of Russia?"

Quote: Arkadich

It would be nice to read about the mutual respect of military personnel from unfriendly countries if not for the question "What the hell are you doing near the borders of Russia?"

Well, so ... "to patrol the airspace near the Russian and Belarusian borders." And also: "flights near the Russian borders against the backdrop of a special operation that has begun in Ukraine are an ideal place for testing aircraft." This is from the actual article. They work out quite practical moments in peacetime, for now. But to the question: why the hell did our leaders "give" NATO luxurious bridgeheads at the price of "glass beads" at one time!? The current ones answer - "we were deceived ..." Well, it turns out that ours were "bell boys from the ding-ding city." It remains to be hoped that our pilots along the borders are doing the same, and not only responding to the approach of NATO aircraft.

[Bingo]

Quote: sub307

We can only hope that our pilots along the borders are doing the same

And ours are doing the same. By the way, this is also from the same article ...

[your1970]

Quote: sub307

But to the question: why the hell did our leaders "give" NATO luxurious bridgeheads at the price of "glass beads" at one time!?

All claims are to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU ... well, to 16 million members of the CPSU - who watched and did nothing - when the Secretary General began to twist pirouettes ....

[BorzRio]

I have never believed and will never believe the "revelations" of military pilots, especially those flying the most modern and secret aircraft. Journalists consider them stupid, capable of talking too much. But in today's armies, military professionals never tell the truth to journalists. They only say what a potential adversary needs to hear. That is, conscious disinformation.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: BorzRio

They only say what a potential adversary needs to hear. That is, conscious disinformation.

With the most severe military censorship, only what is "sifted and weighed" can slip into the press and air ... Therefore, the tales that the RTR station on the Penguin is unable to detect the radiation of the radar for detecting the CC of the ground-based air defense system are from the realm of fantasy! Another thing is that the mode of its operation can be changed. But this is still not a transition to wartime frequencies!
So, everything that these flyers reconnoitered in the war will go down the drain ... The only thing that cannot be changed is the "technical" characteristics of the radar - the range and pulse repetition rate ... Although this is not a problem now.
AHA.

[Filibuster]

American fifth-generation F-35 fighters are not always able to detect Russian air defense systems, despite the presence of special equipment. This problem was faced by US Air Force pilots deployed with aircraft to Europe to patrol the airspace.

Luftwaffe planes in May and June 1941 also very often flew along the western border of the USSR and filmed our troops.
The United States and NATO are preparing to repeat June 22, 1941, once Finland has joined them.
U.S. Army strike units will soon start arriving in Finland as well.

[VicktorVR]

The German economy in 1941 was on an unprecedented rise, the soldiers were motivated and inspired by the victories in Europe.
Now it’s not so much that in order to start a war with the Russian Federation in Europe, it is necessary to introduce the most brutal dictatorship, war communism, and even tougher.
So that workers and peasants work literally for food, and the soldiers go on the attack under the guns of the machine guns of the detachments. Otherwise, nothing will come of it. And all the leaders there understand this.
Another thing is that the United States needs Europe in ruins, and the way is the tenth thing. They will suffocate themselves in sanctions, they will kill themselves against the Russian army, they will rape themselves by refugees, it doesn’t matter.

It is possible and all at once. And the United States will shout from across the ocean "Let's go forward, for democracy, for universal values!"

[Diger]

Quote: VicktorVR

The German economy in 1941 was on an unprecedented rise, the soldiers were motivated and inspired by the victories in Europe.

The economy of the USSR was at its peak in the pre-war period, it was planned to complete the rearmament by 1942, the USSR had more tanks and aircraft than all of Europe combined, multiple superiority in artillery, fortified areas, complete food and technological independence.
The world's largest economies in 1940 in terms of the 2011 dollar

The USSR was in second place and its GDP was 56% of that of the United States. Separately, it is worth highlighting British India, which took third place, which was a colonial possession of Great Britain, but in 1947 gained its independence.

Germany in 1940 ranked 4th in terms of GDP. Moreover, the total GDP of the "axis" countries was inferior to the GDP of the anti-Hitler coalition.
The population of the USSR, for the most part, was motivated and "kept in strictness."

Vs now Russia:
-a miserable 2-3% in the world economy
- a completely corrupt elite, Elites and traitorous oligarchs who give iPhones to captured Azov people.
- strange "Minsk agreements" and a lot of point moves
- 70% unmotivated population. no idea, no goal (only $)

Quote: VicktorVR

So that workers and peasants work literally for food, and the soldiers go on the attack under the guns of the machine guns of the detachments. Otherwise, nothing will come of it.

in Germany until 1943 the economy was not even mobilized, and until mid-1944 they did not work in 3 shifts)

[Negro]

Quote from Digger

The USSR was in second place and its GDP was 56% of that of the United States.

You see, this is quite hard to believe. Who are MPDs?

Quote from Digger

did not work in 1944 shifts until mid-3)

Well, as soon as they started working in three shifts, a colonel with a briefcase appeared there alone. The Germans do not like to work, as it turned out.

[Zadok]

Quote: Arkadich

It would be nice to read about the mutual respect of military personnel from unfriendly countries if not for the question "What the hell are you doing near the borders of Russia?"

weird question. Generally speaking, they have a job. "What are our submarines doing "around the corner" and generally outside the Russian Federation's terrorist waters? What kind of dwarf sailors are they not allowed into the ridge?" - the same kind of questions.

[Zadok]

Quote: rotmistr60

this Sa-20 is operating, potentially, in military reserve mode, which we have not seen before

You haven't seen much yet. But it’s still interesting how a pilot can visually observe a Russian air defense system while flying not over Russian territory. Or were they lined up along the border line especially for the Americans?

from a height of 1 km, under ideal conditions, it can be seen at ~112. height + optics, and how much is that Kaliningrad region there? PU is underground, all kinds of tap changers are spinning ...

[tralflot1832]

Talking about the capabilities of the F 35 to the whole world in the confrontation with Russia is an extremely stupid misinformation.

[Mar.Tirah]

In the distant Soviet times, even in the early stages, air defense radars were switched on only for firing and the rest of the time they were silent. To detect, track and guide the general air defense system of the area with RTV, there were P-80 type radars and many other standard systems that worked around the clock . Why would the S-300 turn on its radars if there is no threat of attack and a command from the operational duty command post so that its F-35 frequency parameters would be detected or what?

[Mwg]

American fifth-generation F-35 fighters are not always able to detect Russian air defense systems, despite the presence of special equipment.

- this is probably due to microcircuits from irons and washing machines

[Sergey Venediktov]

The stealth of the F-35 exists in the frequency range of our short-wave radars (millimeter-wave). Stealth aircraft of the size F-117/22/35/B-2_Spirit see meter-long radars with virtually no problems, but according to their data, only missiles with Active GOS can fire. In addition, meter-long radars are easier to suppress with electronic warfare stations. Unlike the F-117, the F-22 and F-22 family yavl. with metal planes great EPR. The fact that in Yugoslavia the S-125 air defense system shot down the F-117 with a lower EPR than the F-22/35 guarantees the possibility of their timely detection by our air defense systems when working together with the meter-range radar.

F-22 turned out to be an all-metal aircraft with unproven stealth

In some projections, the MiG-21, covered with special paint, is as inconspicuous as a stealth aircraft.

Those. nothing prevents us from making low-profile aircraft from Su and MiGs, except for the laboriousness of this process

Baker Zolton Dani tells how he shot down the F-117, F-16 and B-2 Spirit lamp air defense system S-125




Stealth is dangerous at low altitudes, because. meter-long radars are not placed on towers, and radars of the Struna or Barrier type were not put into production and remain demonstration samples for 30 years.

[solar]

now my plane does not identify it as such, because this Sa-20 is operating, potentially, in a military reserve mode, which we have not seen before

The author does not understand what exactly he accumulated and pasted.
The problem is not "detectable", judging by what is written in the article, the problem of identification in some modes.
The F-35 is an advanced aircraft, as far as it is now possible, thanks to the built-in RTR Barracuda station, it not only detects a working radar, but also automatically determines the type and mode of operation of the station and the possible detection range of this radar of the aircraft and in this form displays information to the pilot on the screen, that is, it provides full visibility of the information necessary for making a decision, as in a computer game using cheat codes.

[grandson of Perun]

Probably they saw such S-300s. Who will show you the real ...

[Sergey985]

Are they flying right into the area? How do the XNUMXth complexes visually observe?

[Rriv]

Elementary. Look at satellite images from Yandex or Google of the Kaliningrad region. There you can see the position at a distance of 5 km from the border line.

[Svetlana]

Pilot visually seen complex, but the equipment did not see it. How is that???? Do the Americans have super pilots with super eyes? Detecting camouflaged targets tens of kilometers away.

Duck it. April Fools or not, I don't know.

[blackGRAIL]

The author simply distorted the original article. The equipment saw everything perfectly, but the signal signature did not match the one stored in electronic databases (the complexes emitted in a different mode). This does not prevent the defeat of the S-300 in any way and does not make it invisible, the equipment simply says that an unknown type of air defense system has been detected (although the pilot visually sees that it is the S-300).

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/03/31/the-us-air-force-sent-f-35s-to-defend-nato-heres-what-it-learned/

[Dmitrii]

Quote: Magic Archer

Not a big problem. It will be necessary to connect satellites, bring Avaks and numerous scouts.

And what? Just a panacea. The F-35 is an expensive hat, with bark problems all the time in all countries of operation. In general, the presence of such modern aircraft is already good, but you need to look at their survivability, since it is one thing when they simply launch missiles at a target and leave, and it is quite another when they can receive a response from land, water or air. The same goes for all types of technology.

[voyaka uh]

The S-400 system in Khmeimim stands right by the sea.
Therefore, the frequencies of its radars (including additional ones - meter and decimeter) are carefully copied in all modes by AWACS aircraft of the States and Israel flying in international waters.

[Negro]

Quote: voyaka uh

The S-400 system in Khmeimim stands right by the sea.
Therefore, the frequencies of its radars (including additional ones - meter and decimeter) are carefully copied in all modes by AWACS aircraft of the States and Israel flying in international waters.

The S-300 and S-400 systems, in fact, are available from the countries of the damned NATO bloc.

[IgorZ]

I'm wondering how, in the event of a war with NATO, our generals plan to defend the Kaliningrad region. Or is it a priori impossible and no one bothers with it? But the Red Banner Baltic Fleet is standing there !?

[grandson of Perun]

Quote from Igor

I'm wondering how, in the event of a war with NATO, our generals plan to defend the Kaliningrad region.

I think the Suwalki corridor will be opened. But how are the Polish generals going to defend Warsaw from missiles after the attack on the Kaliningrad region?

[Negro]

Quote from Igor

I'm wondering how, in the event of a war with NATO, our generals plan to defend the Kaliningrad region.

Why attack her? Blockade is enough.