Military Review

Israel has successfully tested the David Sling complex

98
Information that the “Magic Wand” missile defense system, also known as “David's Sling”, passed successful tests of the missile defense system, which is located in the Negev desert, is allowed for publication.


These tests for the missile defense system were the first to be conducted in an environment as close as possible to the combat one. The Magic Wand, developed by the Israeli concern RAFAEL and the American company Raytheon, destroyed several conventional enemy missiles.

Israel has successfully tested the David Sling complex


As expected, the new system will be adopted by the IDF in 2014 year. It is designed to intercept missiles, the range of which is 70-300 kilometers. The battery of the Magic Wand protects a much larger area than the battery of the Iron Dome.

"The significant success achieved by the Iron Dome during Operation Cloud Pillar dispelled any doubts about the importance of anti-missile defense weapons. The fact that Israel is the world leader in this field is the achievement of the defense industry and its specialists," said Defense Minister Ehud Barak

On November 25, the leader of the Shiite Hezbollah group, Hassan Nasrallah, said that in the event of a military conflict between Israel and Lebanon, thousands of missiles would fly towards Israel. According to him, the territory from Kiryat Shmona to Eilat will be under fire.

Recall that in order to combat the enemy’s missiles in Israel, a multi-level defense system has been created that is able to withstand both ballistic missiles and Qasams with hail, whose radius of action does not exceed tens of kilometers.



Special attention is paid to short-range missiles. During Operation Cloud Pillar, the effectiveness of the Iron Dome system was almost 90%. This is the world's first development of this kind. Many countries are interested in the experience of Israel - the USA, South Korea, Japan, the EU states.


A single computer network has been created, which combines all the missile defense facilities. In a few years, all five levels of this system will take up combat duty, each of which supports the others. It will include the means of high-altitude struggle, "Hetz", "Magic Wand", "Patriot" and "Iron Dome".


Originator:
newsru.co.il, ynet.co.il
98 comments
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  1. mar.tira
    mar.tira 26 November 2012 07: 36
    0
    the efficiency of the "Iron Dome" system was almost 90% ????????????? Against the slingshots of the 50s ????. You cannot praise yourself, who will praise?! For example, I consider our short-range air defense systems, and the S-300, S-400, the best in the world! They are cheaper and more effective! Although not used in real combat!
    1. sv-sakh
      sv-sakh 26 November 2012 07: 43
      +8
      Nevertheless, this system exists and saves the lives of citizens ...
      Ultimately, from the use of slingshots of the 50s, civilians and the actions of the state of Israel are dying, should serve as an example to our bureaucrats that a man is not alive by a single cut.
      1. YARY
        YARY 26 November 2012 07: 49
        +11
        I have a connection with a friend in Haifa, so he says that for one Jew who died from the "raid", the entire Cabinet of Ministers of Israel gets in the ears.
        That would be our attitude to the people.
        And as for the sling, we will wait and see.
        1. sv-sakh
          sv-sakh 26 November 2012 07: 53
          +2
          Well, in our state, a person’s life costs less than a bullet to take this very life ...
        2. kostello2004
          kostello2004 3 December 2012 11: 54
          0
          just chew better so that digestion is good
      2. Fox
        Fox 26 November 2012 07: 51
        -1
        I can not recognize the Jews as "peaceful citizens" ... these are some kind of parasites ... what they have done in Palestine is not described and is not shown on TV.
        1. sv-sakh
          sv-sakh 26 November 2012 07: 54
          +1
          Is the people to blame?
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 November 2012 09: 05
      0
      Quote: mar.tira
      For example, I consider our short-range air defense systems, and S-300, S-400 protection, the best in the world!

      Nice complex, but here's your post .......
      Quote: mar.tira
      You will not praise yourself, who will praise ?!

      laughing laughing laughing
      The fact that the "iron dome" is effective is beyond doubt, in vain you are.
    3. Professor
      Professor 26 November 2012 09: 23
      0
      the efficiency of the "Iron Dome" system was almost 90% ????????????? Against the slingshots of the 50s ????. You cannot praise yourself, who will praise?! For example, I consider our short-range air defense systems, and the S-300, S-400, the best in the world! They are cheaper and more effective! Although not used in real combat!

      Fajar-5 is far from a slingshot.
      The actual effectiveness of the Dome was more than 95% (only 3.5% missiles broke through the system).
      In total, from the beginning of the operation, according to the November 17 data, Hamas fired 703 missiles against Israel, of which 217 intercepted missiles in populated areas were intercepted by the Kipat Barzel anti-ballistic missiles. 27 rockets exploded in the built-up area, less than 4% of the number of launched.
      "Pillar of the Cloud" - a repetition of "Cast Lead"
      C-300, 400 cheaper? Well yes? More effective? At the training ground and against other targets.
      1. Pimply
        26 November 2012 11: 50
        -1
        At the moment, the data is somewhat different, professor. During Operation Cloud Pillar in November 2012, 421 missiles were intercepted by the system. The total number of missiles was about 1500, more than half of them fell on open terrain, and therefore did not go astray.
        1. Professor
          Professor 26 November 2012 12: 03
          0
          At the moment, the data is slightly different, professor

          At the end of the operation, the general statistics of interceptions did not change. Korea is already pushing for a system to be sold to it. IMHO 3-4 reptile she does not shine.
          1. Pimply
            26 November 2012 12: 06
            -1
            I'm talking about quantity. Statistics yes.

            As for Korea - they are going to exchange corvettes that are very necessary now, I think there is a chance that the production of domes will be expanded. The Koreans have one big problem - Seoul is located in the area of ​​North Korea’s artillery and missile systems, very close to the border. Because they are twitching.
          2. Common sense
            Common sense 26 November 2012 12: 07
            +2
            Why? It is profitable to sell and earn as soon as possible.
            1. Pimply
              26 November 2012 12: 10
              0
              Capacities are limited. And in order to more or less cover Israel itself, at least 5 more systems are needed. Which, given the potential war with Iran, is urgently needed
            2. Professor
              Professor 26 November 2012 12: 11
              -1
              You can sell everything, only the south and the north will have nothing to cover.
              1. Common sense
                Common sense 26 November 2012 12: 29
                0
                And to sell manufacturing patents? .Koreans with their ability to produce on patents both themselves and Israel are riveted, and much faster))
                1. Pimply
                  26 November 2012 12: 35
                  -1
                  Organization of production by patents is not a year or two. And almost no one sells patents for the latest systems.
                2. Professor
                  Professor 26 November 2012 12: 42
                  -1
                  And there are no patents there, all knowhow. And to sell such knowledge is much more dangerous.
                  1. Pimply
                    26 November 2012 12: 45
                    -1
                    Exactly
    4. finanacing
      finanacing 26 November 2012 12: 44
      +1
      Count it. The problem is that Russia simply does not have a system capable of performing the tasks that the Iron Dome performs, it simply does not. It doesn't exist. Compare S-300 and S-400 with "Dome", how to prove that Belaz is better than Gazelle. After all, he takes more, throws further. And the short-range air defense missile systems like "Pantsir S-1", firstly, do not inspire optimism with their characteristics, and secondly, even when they are modernized and brought to mind, they are not able to perform the tasks that the "Dome" successfully copes with. ...
      1. dirty trick
        dirty trick 26 November 2012 12: 56
        +4
        Quote: Verde
        And the short-range air defense missile systems like "Pantsir S-1", firstly, do not inspire optimism with their characteristics, and secondly, even when they are modernized and brought to mind, they are not able to perform the tasks that the "Dome" successfully copes with. ...

        we will need systems of the "dome" type only if the territory of Russia shrinks to the borders of the Moscow region (which, after all, seems to be larger in size than the state of Israel), which will never happen !!!
        1. finanacing
          finanacing 26 November 2012 18: 18
          +1
          Cover military bases in hot regions, and Russia has such bases and will have more if the state positions itself as having weight on the international arena, secondly, civil and industrial facilities and bases near fire hazardous borders, and Russia has a lot of them, too need protection. In connection with the events in the Central Asian and Caucasian areas, tension will only increase.
        2. Karish
          Karish 26 November 2012 22: 28
          +1
          Quote: dirty trick
          We will need systems of the "dome" type only if the territory of Russia shrinks to the borders of the Moscow region (which, after all, seems to be larger in size than the state of Israel), which will never happen !!!

          It’s interesting, but what will you do when we say a base in Tajikistan or some other republic of Central Asia will be fired by either Grad’s divisions, and let’s say so from the mountains or from somewhere else they will slowly and unexpectedly launch (from 20 kilometers) 5-10 degrees. (Of course, mujahideen of various spills who have nothing to do with the legitimate Tajik prospect and even fight against it will shoot) Launchers are an ordinary pipe. set the clockwork and left. How will you defend yourself? Even than you spot the launch site and direction finding. question.?
          So it will not continue every day. every 5-7 days and always unexpectedly, but with casualties among the personnel. How this defenseless state will affect the morale of soldiers and officers. And who will you bomb? The legal government of Tajikistan (or someone else).
          How is the development of events? To the question of whether such systems are needed.
          It’s just that after the operation in Gaza, the queue for us to buy is already standing, when the Russian Federation gets in it - most likely a matter of time.
          1. alex86
            alex86 26 November 2012 23: 38
            0
            In our country, unfortunately, losses among personnel will be treated as an inevitable evil and a very likely companion of such a situation. If it is, say, Tajikistan, then they will humbly wait for the next raid, and if it is here, they will demolish the nearest village to hell and say that there was a terrorist base there. The most significant disadvantage of systems of the "dome" type is that the Grad batteries will not be used against a volley, you will have to "demolish the nearest aul to hell" - and it is high time that you trick this audience.
            1. Karish
              Karish 27 November 2012 07: 48
              -1
              Quote: alex86
              The most significant disadvantage of dome-type systems is against the volley of the Gradov battery

              If the conversation is about the Grad battery, or rather the division - probably not. But it is not intended for this. (Although it all depends on the number of Domes). Just Gradov’s division will be destroyed by aviation before deployment. The problem is not in the divisions, but in single installations for 10-15 missiles (hidden in the ground or disguised), such shots the Dome knocks down. YouTube has enough videos. From 12, I shot down 9, the rest fell in the open and did not cause damage. 100% result (in that case)
          2. Cat
            Cat 26 November 2012 23: 50
            0
            Quote: Karish
            It’s interesting, but what will you do when we say a base in Tajikistan or some other republic of Central Asia will be fired by either Grad’s divisions, and let’s say so from the mountains or from somewhere else they will slowly and unexpectedly launch (from 20 kilometers) 5-10 degrees. (Of course, mujahideen of various spills who have nothing to do with the legitimate Tajik prospect and even fight against it will shoot) Launchers are an ordinary pipe. set the clockwork and left. How will you defend yourself? Even than you spot the launch site and direction finding. question.?

            the hitting accuracy of a single rocket fired from an ordinary rusty tube installation is plus or minus half a kilometer. A military base is not an industrial zone with a bunch of factory buildings, and even less a city block. Residential buildings are not buried in the ground, and no one drives trolleybuses into caponiers. But at a military base, they both bury and drive. Therefore, the harm from single missiles, in which case, will be minimal (if at all).
            The iron dome and others like it have already been discussed at this forum. Based on the results of a long battle, they came to the conclusion: this missile defense system is quite suitable for the protection of settlements, and what for is not needed to protect military units. You can find and read at your leisure, if you wish.
            By the way: As far as I know, the iron dome covers exactly residential and industrial facilities - and not the location of troops. Which is quite consistent with the above layout.
            1. Karish
              Karish 27 November 2012 07: 59
              0
              Quote: Cat
              the hitting accuracy of a single rocket fired from an ordinary rusty tube installation is plus or minus half a kilometer. And a military base is not an industrial zone with a bunch of factory buildings, and even less a city block

              Do you even understand what you wrote?
              Hope for this, why in general create an army, nuclear weapons exist - who will jerk?
              And if, according to the law of meanness, the first salvo and 3 missiles into the barracks, say a 4-story one and at night?
              Quote: Cat
              But at the military base - and bury, and drive. Therefore, the harm from single missiles, in which case, will be minimal (if at all).

              Even if they miss and there will be no damage after the first, second and third raid (with a difference of 3-5 days). In a month you will find personnel not climbing out of bomb shelters and with zero combat effectiveness. The unknown is a terrible thing, especially when the City begins to fall without warning.
              Quote: Cat
              Based on the results of a long battle, they came to the conclusion: this missile defense system is quite suitable for the protection of settlements, and what for is not needed to protect military units.

              Troop units? This is in the sense of a column on the march? Then definitely not
              And with analyzes of the shred, do not meddle. In Israel, the Dome was created to cover the Military bases, Strategic sites and the Civilian population (by the way, last but not least). No one wondered why Hamas never got into the largest EL station in Israel (7 km from Gaza), or suddenly factories, like Petrochemicals (25 km from Gaza) or at the bases - which are stuffed around like dogs not cut. -IMHO,
              Quote: Cat
              it covers residential and industrial facilities — not the location of troops. Which is quite consistent with the above layout.

              Read above
              1. Cat
                Cat 27 November 2012 16: 35
                0
                Quote: Karish
                And if, according to the law of meanness, the first salvo and 3 missiles into the barracks, say a 4-story one and at night?

                no missile defense gives a 100% guarantee of interception. Accordingly, this same 4-storey barracks can fly into this very uncaught NURS. In strict accordance with the notorious law of meanness.
                Quote: Karish
                Even if they miss and there will be no damage after the first, second and third raid (with a difference of 3-5 days). In a month you will find personnel not climbing out of bomb shelters and with zero combat effectiveness. Unknown is a terrible thing, especially when the Grads begin to fall without warning

                In this scenario, all wars can be won by artillery alone. Because for modern howitzers 15 km is not a distance, but the accuracy is much higher than that of the MLRS. And to intercept the shell is impossible in principle. Drive your Carnation division along the front and shoot at random intervals - in a month you will receive a completely demoralized and disorganized enemy, ready to surrender as soon as possible.
                But seriously - there is a wealth of experience in positional wars, when the troops sat for months under harassing shelling in trenches and dugouts, and not in concrete bunkers. And at the same time, they did not lose combat efficiency. Because - the soldiers, not the civilian population, who are scattering where after the first shots.
                Although, perhaps, the Israeli army is equipped with some special specific soldiers, for whom a dozen explosions in the territory of the unit are comparable in significance to the direct hit of the megaton Core Baton? Enlighten, plz, otherwise I do not know =)
                Quote: Karish
                In Israel, the Dome was created to cover the military bases, strategic facilities and the civilian population (by the way, last)

                For cover from partisan punks, in the specific conditions of a particular theater. Since this Dome is sideways to a more or less serious opponent, it’s too convenient a target for the aforementioned receiver artillery. And in the conditions of a mountainous or wooded area, half a dozen Trays are enough - which quickly, cheaply and with a guarantee will turn your missile defense into a pile of scrap metal, after which you can already walk around the protected object with NURSI =)
                1. Professor
                  Professor 27 November 2012 16: 58
                  -1
                  Because for modern 15 howitzers km is not the distance, but accuracy is much higher than that of the MLRS. And to intercept the shell is impossible in principle.

                  I apologize for interfering in your conversation, but you are mistaken. The accuracy of modern MLRS is almost absolute (pint point), and an artillery shell easily intercepts a nautilus.



                  Since this Dome is sideways to a more or less serious opponent, it’s too convenient a target for the aforementioned receiver artillery.

                  The Soviet Union supplied Vietnam with shells for multiple rocket launchers consisting of 2 parts — especially for partisans. What is it worth putting on a Gazelle and fitting it to Mineralnye Vody?
                  With a serious enemy, the ceremony will not be scattered leaflets and sending SMS with a warning about the impending blow, it will be covered with barreled artillery, the same MLRS or carpet bombing. And they will cover him long before he enters the position.
                  1. Pimply
                    27 November 2012 19: 48
                    -1
                    I'll bet a little. Nautilus is still an experimental system
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 27 November 2012 22: 39
                      -1
                      It was alleged that, in principle, it is impossible to intercept a projectile, here you are - it is intercepted.
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 28 November 2012 00: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        It was alleged that, in principle, it is impossible to intercept a projectile, here you are - it is intercepted.

                        I admit - I put it incorrectly. request
                        On the other hand, in principle, a machine-gun bullet can also be intercepted. Even with the current level of development. Only - the meaning and price of the issue? So with an artillery shell in the same way.
                  2. Cat
                    Cat 27 November 2012 23: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: Professor
                    The accuracy of modern MLRS is almost absolute

                    possibly, especially with guided projectiles. So much the worse for the defenders =)
                    Quote: Professor
                    artillery shell easily intercepts nautilus.

                    Another commercial for another experienced wunderwafer. Although even if they bring it and put it into series ... we launch an attack during rain / snow / fog / sandstorm / etc, or we give a smoke shell with the first shot. And u, superpupernautilus is embarrassedly hiding in the bushes. The main problem of all laser-based systems is the impossibility of working in a more or less dirty atmosphere, so far no successful solution has been found.
                    Again, the reload time of the system, the resource of the battery or capacitor - how many shells and at what rate of fire can this nautilus intercept? Oh well.
                    Quote: Professor
                    The Soviet Union supplied Vietnam with shells for multiple rocket launchers consisting of 2 parts — especially for partisans. What is it worth putting on a Gazelle and fitting it to Mineralnye Vody?

                    Yeah, for these shells and the installation was special, Grad-P, a kind of pipe on a tripod. An analogue of which is used by partisan enemies of the Jewish people.
                    It is clear that such a system is not like a Gazelle - it can fit in any passenger car, and with some luck it can be fitted almost close to the Kremlin. But does this mean that it is urgent to close all the cities of Russia with an analog of the Dome? Even the Fed’s printing press doesn’t make such expenses =) It’s good for the Jews - the territory is small, there are few convenient goals - you can show off.
                    Quote: Professor
                    With a serious opponent they will not stand on ceremony

                    That's it. A serious adversary strikes in one gulp from the same City, 40 missiles in 20 seconds. Even with 100% missile defense effectiveness, the 21st missile will destroy the Launcher of the Dome, and the rest will go around. Total and business.
                    1. Rumata
                      Rumata 28 November 2012 10: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: Cat
                      Another commercial for another experienced wunderwafer.

                      This "experienced" wunderwaffe began to be made back in 1996, and in 2002 it was already shooting down artillery and mortar shells ...
                      Quote: Cat
                      We launch an attack during rain / snow / fog / sandstorm / etc, or we give a smoke shell with the first shot. And u, superpupernautilus is embarrassingly hiding in the bushes

                      You probably do not know, but modern THEL and similar systems, rain, fog, smoke do not interfere, the beam does not scatter, but simply loses not much of the energy. If everything was as gloomy as you described, no one would invest hundreds of millions in lasers.
                      Quote: Cat
                      The main problem of all laser-based systems is the impossibility of working in a more or less dirty atmosphere, so far no successful solution has been found.

                      There is no such problem since the days of old ruby, low-power, lasers ...
                      Quote: Cat
                      Again, the recharge time of the system,

                      You probably don't know again, but even Nautilus, before it was renamed and improved, could fire 55 "shots", less than a second between each one, before it would have to be "charged" which took less than a minute ...
                      Quote: Cat
                      resource battery
                      laughing
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 28 November 2012 14: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Rumata
                        they started to do wunderwafles back in 1996, and in 2002 she was already shooting down artillery and mortar shells ...

                        Quote: Rumata
                        the beam does not scatter, but simply loses not much of the energy ..

                        just that, most of the energy. And therefore, systems of this type, despite a long history of development, have not gone beyond piece prototypes. If everything was as chocolate as in advertising - such toys would have long been stumbled where necessary and not necessary. What is it worth at least Abrams with THEL on the tower, it’s practically an indestructible panzer. I am silent about aircraft carriers in general - there are few of them, they are very expensive, why not mount such an ideal short-range defense system on them? But alas, they continue to smack with Volcanoes and anti-ballistic missiles. Therefore, the conclusion: something there is unclean. But in the promotional videos about this, of course, are silent.
                      2. Rumata
                        Rumata 28 November 2012 22: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Cat
                        But in the promotional videos about this, of course, are silent.

                        That is, you know, but they are silent =) You cannot put THEL on the Abrams, only if the trailer is 2 times larger with a generator behind it, and there are no prototypes not because of spherical "Weather problems", but because only not so long ago normal mediums for chemical lasers were created, new techniques make it possible to grow better crystals, all this is to make the system relatively small and mobile, and not keep it at a distance of the wires from the power plant ...
                      3. Cat
                        Cat 28 November 2012 22: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: Rumata
                        Do not put THEL on the abrams, only if the trailer is 2 times larger with the generator

                        But there is a generator on the aircraft carrier. Even two. Atomic. Which trailer from Abrams - one left. But the lasers are dumb. And paaachim, let me ask? Explicit red tape, there is a negligent attitude towards the preservation of capitalist property.
                        Quote: Rumata
                        just not so long ago normal mediums were created for chemical lasers

                        according to your own words, the system worked quite successfully back in 2002. That is, 10 years ago all the necessary technologies existed. And now it turns out - nevermind, there are only recently come up with. The question is: where is the nonsense, and where is the truth?
                      4. Rumata
                        Rumata 29 November 2012 09: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Cat
                        But the lasers are dumb. And paaachim, let me ask?

                        Quote: Rumata
                        due to the fact that not so long ago normal mediums were created for chemical lasers, new techniques allow us to grow better crystals


                        Quote: Cat
                        10 years ago all the necessary technologies existed.

                        In fact, tests were already underway in 2002, the laser itself was probably 15 years old, but this is a short time for such developments, they constantly improved both the laser itself and electronics .. This is equivalent to the railgun, why only now they began to test prototypes of reylgans, if the physical effect itself the accelerating projectile is known for about 200 years. Technology did not allow it, the first THELs were the size of a train and about 10 times weaker than modern counterparts.
                      5. Cat
                        Cat 29 November 2012 18: 01
                        +1
                        Well, if so, it’s not a question. If so, then in about twenty years there will really be a system with the possibility of using "in conditions remote from peaceful." And which will not need to be towed by Abrams =)
                        Over the past decades, more than one or two such or similar systems have been invented; some of them even shot down something there. But things do not move beyond prototypes. And it is not known when it will move - given the pace of progress in modern science.

                        For comparison: the nuclear fission process was discovered in 1939. In 1942, the first reactor was built, which, together with service systems, occupies almost the entire city block. And in 1952, the Nautilus nuclear submarine was laid down, where the reactor, along with the entire cradle, was placed in a 8-meter diameter casing. For everything, it’s 13 years, from the moment the process was opened until the creation of a usable sample.
                        And the current "professors" - how many years have they been fucking with this THEL? Can they have flatter equipment or dumber computers than in the middle of the 20th century? Hardly. The point is clearly in the brains, therefore, we will wait a long time.
                        Although, this is not only true with lasers, it is similar in all sectors of situevina. Except maybe the production of smartphones =))
                      6. Rumata
                        Rumata 30 November 2012 01: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Cat
                        Except maybe the production of smartphones =))

                        That's for sure =)
                      7. Pimply
                        30 November 2012 14: 43
                        -1
                        Compare the number of people who worked on the technology, what funds were spent on it, and under what conditions development was underway. And then we'll talk.
          3. Professor
            Professor 28 November 2012 10: 47
            -1
            Again, the reload time of the system, the resource of the battery or capacitor - how many shells and at what rate of fire can this nautilus intercept? Oh well.

            So all the same, they intercept artillery shells? wink Do I have to answer other questions too, or will you take an interest in yourself? Al you laziness again?

            A serious adversary strikes in full gulp from the same Castle, 40 missiles in 20 seconds.

            If you live to see it. Installation of 40 pipes in the Urals is for you to carry single NURSs in an ambulance.

            Even with 100% PRO effectiveness, the 21 missile will destroy the Launcher of the Dome, and the rest will go around. Total and business.

            This flood is starting to bother me. An adversary capable of detecting the coordinates of an LCD system should have more modern technology than MLRS with NURSs: UAVs, etc. Such an adversary will use high-precision weapons against the goals themselves, including the LCD. And this, as they say, is a completely different story.
            1. Cat
              Cat 28 November 2012 14: 35
              0
              Quote: Professor
              The enemy is able to detect the coordinates of the LCD system

              what is there to discover? The fool is big, it is perfectly visible from the top of the adjacent minaret. Coordinates via banal SMS are quickly transmitted to at least the other end of the globe. Total and business.
              Quote: Professor
              Such an adversary will use high-precision weapons against the goals themselves and the LCD, including

              What am I talking about? A good defense against a specific enemy in specific conditions, but in the event of a collision with a serious opponent, the Iron Dome will turn out to be a copper basin covering its own calculation and adjacent objects.
              Quote: Professor
              So all the same, they intercept artillery shells?

              experimental installation in polygon conditions.
          4. Professor
            Professor 29 November 2012 16: 28
            -1
            Another commercial for another experienced wunderwafer.

            Here is another commercial for intercepting an artillery shell, but it’s bad luck, it’s already experimental, and weapons have been adopted. This is for you for educational program on the material side. wink
            1. Cat
              Cat 29 November 2012 17: 18
              0
              and where is it written that this swell takes artillery shells (not NURSs)?
            2. Professor
              Professor 29 November 2012 17: 22
              -1
              I can in English, I can lay out links in German
              Now I am writing an article about this swell, wait? laugh together wink

              PS
              in the video on the 26 second of the NURS? laughing
            3. Cat
              Cat 29 November 2012 23: 20
              0
              Quote: Professor
              in the video on the 26 second of the NURS?

              and FIG knows what it is there, at the 26th second. It looks like a UFO - which is not surprising, with such and such video quality =)
              Quote: Professor
              Now I am writing an article about this swell, wait? laugh together

              Of course I’ll wait, it will be interesting to read. Moreover, an adequate translation of an import text with a bunch of specific technical terms is, alas, not for me ... all hope for your article =)

              PS: as examples, please indicate the interception of PzH-2000 shells or at least Paladin (and not homemade jokers "based on the M-21OF", with which the ZhK is fighting)))
            4. Professor
              Professor 29 November 2012 23: 51
              -2
              Moreover, an adequate translation of an import text with a bunch of specific technical terms is, alas, not for me ... all hope for your article =)

              I say "write", not "translate": shchink:

              as examples, please indicate the interception of the PzKh-2000 shells or at least the Paladin (and not the self-made jokers "based on the M-21OF" with which the ZhK is fighting)))

              it is a balistic and in Africa a balistic despite its proximity to the equator. The Germans, however, tested their system in Turkey against German snards. rolls or needs only from PzH-2000? wassat :
            5. Cat
              Cat 30 November 2012 01: 24
              0
              Quote: Professor
              I say "write", not "translate"

              How to understand, order? Are you one of the creators of this system, or maybe its tester? If so, then your scribble is most likely biased and does not inspire much confidence.
              If your article is based on information from certain primary sources, then this is exactly what translation. because the Germans are unlikely to bother with a separate report in Russian =)
              Quote: Professor
              it is a balistic and in Africa a balistic despite its proximity to the equator. The Germans, however, tested their system in Turkey against German snards.

              Yes, even if they test in Australia, it does not matter. That's what they tested against - very important. If not PzH-2000, what then - AS-90, AuF1, maybe racial ATMOS? And then you never know, sFH-13 also shoots German shells =)
              After all, it is the information about what and from what they fired, from what distance, with what rate of fire - and makes it possible to more or less adequately assess the advantages or disadvantages of the system under discussion. And press releases or promo videos about "100500 knocked down", to the point of them ... fuck-babah-pyshch-piu-piu, we can’t help! - and without translation everything is clear =)
  • Karish
    Karish 28 November 2012 00: 05
    +1
    Quote: Cat
    For cover from partisan punks, in the specific conditions of a particular theater. Since this Dome is sideways to a more or less serious opponent, it’s too convenient a target for the aforementioned receiver artillery.

    There are other wars now and there will be no movement of barrel artillery along the border, as well as monthly seats on dugouts. The Americans defeated Iraq in 3 weeks, probably losing 50 people killed - the rest is guerrilla warfare (we see this even in Afghanistan Iraq, at least in Dagestan or Israel). They will not carry guns, they will hail with hail from tripods (let). What will you protect yourself with? You won’t even spot the launch site, not only you won’t
    1. Cat
      Cat 28 November 2012 00: 51
      0
      Quote: Karish
      The Americans defeated Iraq in 3 weeks, probably losing 50 people killed

      having read the official reports of Amer’s warriors, Dr. Goebbels would have shot himself on the spot, from the realization of his own inferiority. Well, yes this is a separate issue.
      Actually, in an incomplete month of active fighting, right up to the capture of Tikrit, the amers lost about 150 people killed and thousands of wounded. Plus, the other members of the anti-Iraq coalition have lost some more. This despite the fact that the Iraqi army practically did not resist, Baghdad surrendered without a fight. Data - the official statistics of the state MO (which even the Americans themselves do not believe))) It is not clear where you got the figure of 50 killed.
      Quote: Karish
      There are other wars now and there will be no movement of barrel artillery along the border, as well as monthly seats on dugouts

      monthly meetings in the dugout in modern warfare are really hard to imagine. Although who knows how it will come out, suddenly such a war will really happen. And about sitting in the dugouts - I mentioned on a completely different occasion, re-read carefully.
      But as for the barrel artillery ... all of it, with the exception of the cropped artillery, is intended for this very purpose - to maneuver along the front and strenuously ruin the lives of those "on the other side." In order to prepare the conditions for their own offensive, or to complicate the enemy. Previously, artillery was used for anti-tank missile defense, but now more ATGMs are engaged in this.
      Or maybe, from your point of view, guns are designed for something else? But can they even be taken apart and handed over to the secondary industry, if not the corresponding concepts of modern wars? =)))
  • kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 11: 57
    0
    But in Moscow this is not worth it? and the perimeter?
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 26 November 2012 23: 22
    0
    Quote: Verde
    And the short-range air defense missile systems like "Pantsir S-1", firstly, do not inspire optimism with their characteristics, and secondly, even when they are modernized and brought to mind, they are not able to perform the tasks that the "Dome" successfully copes with. ...

    I am interested in one question: why do Jews never criticize either their country or their weapons, and the Russians through one obs..yut both.
    P.S. If the "Iron Dome" of "Hasan" did not knock down, the Jews would disappoint me
    The picture at the beginning of the article resembled "Stargate Atlantis". Jews of success in the defense of their country.
    1. Kars
      Kars 26 November 2012 23: 30
      0
      Quote: saturn.mmm
      Jews never criticize either their country or their weapons, and the Russians through one obs..yut both



      you forget that we are sitting on a Russian site, I also criticize Ukrainian weapons here. And what we do on Jewish sites, especially in Hebrew and closed, we don’t know. But constructive criticism which, in principle, can be ... obscured, I think is also there.
    2. Rumata
      Rumata 27 November 2012 02: 58
      +2
      Quote: saturn.mmm
      I am interested in one question: why do Jews never criticize either their country or their weapons, and the Russians through one obs..yut both.

      Go to Waronline, what is going on there is a solid "Fucked up polymers". Snappers UG, 120% of tractors got stuck when leaving the base in Gaza, Nitanyahu is a latent cockatoo, and IDF soldiers are a bunch of disabled people with Parkinson's =)
      1. Pimply
        27 November 2012 08: 29
        -1
        The old man is trying especially hard 8))
        1. Rumata
          Rumata 27 November 2012 12: 34
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          The old man is trying especially hard 8))

          Not the word that year, like a bee trying
  • kostello2004
    kostello2004 3 December 2012 11: 55
    -1
    That's exactly what she was not tested anywhere, maybe she will also give out a treacherous bunch at the start. And this system works, and it works perfectly. About the price. And how much is the life of a Jewish boy? Who can become a great banker or president or designer? Is it worth the cost of one rocket? or 10 or 100?
  • mvkot120669
    mvkot120669 23 June 2013 23: 55
    0
    You write nonsense ... The Israeli system has shown itself in real conditions .... military operations ... C300 real combat tests never passed !!!!!! How can she be the best? All this "Horror story" - no more ..
  • mar.tira
    mar.tira 26 November 2012 07: 54
    0
    Quote: Ardent
    what for one Jew who died from the "raid"

    First of all, you need to know how this "autumn exacerbation" began in Israel. And the Jews were the first to pull it up, as always! They really wanted to show their prowess, and now they are squealing to the whole world, how good they are, and the Palestinians are bad!
    1. Professor
      Professor 26 November 2012 09: 27
      0
      And the first to be lifted up as always by the Jews!

      Do you selectively remember? They forgot about the shelling of a jeep by Kornet on Israeli territory, but about dozens of shelling of Israeli settlements? And all this before "the Jews were lifted up first, as always."
      1. Rumata
        Rumata 27 November 2012 03: 02
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Do you selectively remember? They forgot about the shelling of a jeep by Kornet on Israeli territory, but about dozens of shelling of Israeli settlements? And all this before "the Jews were lifted up first, as always"

        Gallant forum fighters for Palestinian freedom, have long ago come to the conclusion that this was a Mossad provocation, as directed by the ZOG
  • I. Brovkin
    I. Brovkin 26 November 2012 08: 00
    +2
    It will last for a long time against the Palestinians with their kasams and the Syrians with the Skuds, and new and promising Iranian missiles do not matter to her. But the effectiveness against modern missiles is a big question.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 26 November 2012 08: 01
    +3
    mar.tira
    A suitable idea, a new image of a Jew.
    They are all aggressors from tailor to professor.
    Like one thugs,
    And they have trimmings in their pants. (I. Huberman) tongue
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 26 November 2012 08: 31
    +5
    The article is not about Jews, but about the missile defense system that they created and passed combat tests. And it was very successful. Now the Israelis have the only tested system in the world and the experience of its combat use. In addition, Israel has launched a quick response system to sudden strikes and retaliatory strikes with precision weapons.
  • Konsmo
    Konsmo 26 November 2012 08: 54
    0
    The Jews have no ads and the grass does not grow. What n ... 90 when 40 percent. with a little. Palestinian rockets were shown on Sunday yesterday, such as skillful hands did in circles in the 70s.
    In the photo, the rocket is 6 meters long. And this is against the meter launched from the barbecue.
    And if you run 200 or more at once. Missiles will end or sooner Israel’s budget will be fucked .... Also yesterday they told and showed about the legendary Merkavas, such as the soil in Israel is soft (about 70-odd tons of weight is not mentioned), therefore, to drive somehow, you need to remove plate armor from the bottom tank, and therefore from the bottom it is especially vulnerable.
    Like, if a mine is not considered.
    Also about these missiles, to hell with them at the test site when in real life they fly to your head.
    Friends from Israel say that everything about the iron dome says that they stole so much that the girls from our defense can only dream about it.
    1. Karish
      Karish 26 November 2012 09: 09
      +7
      Quote: Konsmo
      The Jews have no ads and the grass does not grow. What n ... 90 when 40 percent. with a little.

      I do not understand what kind of indefatigable desire to falsify the achievements of others? The iron dome shot down 90% of the missiles due to fall and cause damage and this is a fact (but the fact of things is stubborn)
      Quote: Konsmo
      .Also yesterday, they told and showed about the legendary Merkavas, such as the soil in Israel is soft (about 70-odd tons of weight is not mentioned), therefore, to drive somehow, you need to remove plate armor from the bottom of the tank, and therefore it is especially vulnerable from the bottom.

      Ask Kars, he is special in these matters - the topic has been burned 1000 times - we send amateurs to the library.
      Quote: Konsmo
      Also about these missiles, to hell with them at the test site when in real life they fly to your head.

      Can't read? The sling is designed for missiles with radii of 70–350 km and cruise missiles. If you understand what it is about fool
      1. Konsmo
        Konsmo 26 November 2012 10: 16
        0
        Some kind of argument you have is dumb. Where you send, yourself what you know. Almost every week I chat with residents on Skype, I have friends in Israel, young people, these Merkavs (chariots) themselves carry. And you from Germany drive kosher news.
        70-350 km of the entire perimeter of Israel take a look at the map. Do not put them against Russian missiles.
        1. Karish
          Karish 26 November 2012 10: 24
          0
          Quote: Konsmo
          Almost every week I chat with residents on Skype, I have friends in Israel, young people, these Merkavs (chariots) themselves carry. And you from Germany drive kosher news.

          Can I get a little fuss with me? I am here in Israel) I have been living for 20 years !!!! laughing

          Quote: Konsmo
          What n ... 90 when 40 percent. with a little. Palestinian rockets were shown on Sunday yesterday, such as skillful hands did in circles in the 70s.

          are you friends from Israel bothering? laughing
          Quote: Konsmo
          70-350 km perimeter of the whole of Israel take a look at the map.

          And I have nothing to look, I traveled all along and across. For those who understand it, 70-350 km are heavy systems of multiple launch rocket like Hurricane or Tornado.
          1. Konsmo
            Konsmo 26 November 2012 10: 48
            -3
            1. And .. that the Jewish press does not discuss corruption in creating the Dome?
            2. This was shown on Channel 3 of Moscow. How the Palestinians send their missiles from guides, such as barbecue. Missiles 60-90 cm in appearance, no more. A little more than an elbow. It is not clear who is David after that .-))
            3. And there tornadoes brought to you (to them)?
            Our warriors say one launcher of 12 missiles. covers the area of ​​Moscow. Volumetric vacuum explosion.
            Get out of there then. Or you will wait for the advertising results of your system.
            1. Karish
              Karish 26 November 2012 10: 52
              +2
              Quote: Konsmo
              II .. that the Jewish press does not discuss corruption in creating the Dome?

              Not once. Or a reference please, there are enough Russian-language media in Israel

              Quote: Konsmo
              How the Palestinians send their missiles from guides, like braziers. Missiles 60-90 cm in appearance, no more. A little more than an elbow. It is not clear who is David after that .-))

              To the garden, (children’s course)

              Quote: Konsmo
              Our warriors say one launcher of 12 missiles. covers the area of ​​Moscow. Volumetric vacuum explosion.

              No, perhaps a nursery group. Suits you better laughing
            2. Professor
              Professor 26 November 2012 10: 56
              +4
              Our warriors say one launcher of 12 missiles. covers the area of ​​Moscow. Volumetric vacuum explosion.

              The area of ​​Moscow is about 1100 square kilometers. Figures from different sources are slightly different. So, according to the Ministry of Economic Development at 2008, the capital's area was 1091 square kilometer, but in 2010, according to the official Moscow Government server, the area is 1081 square kilometer.
              According to your onda, the rocket "covers" an area of ​​100 square kilometers. That is, a square 10 by 10 km? Cool, now no nuclear weapons are needed. laughing

              PS
              Learn materiel: MLRS Smerch-lesion area, 672000 m². That is, the square 800 on 800 m.
              1. Karish
                Karish 26 November 2012 10: 59
                -1
                Quote: Professor
                That is, a square of 10 per 10 km? Cool, now nuclear weapons are not needed.

                Professor, according to previous comments, it’s clear Konsmo, hardly understands what a square is, well, but 10 by 10, they have not yet passed this. laughing
                Ask him. Is he sure that at least 62500 children's sandboxes can be covered with one rocket tongue
              2. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 27 November 2012 00: 15
                0
                Professor
                N / mg = ((Δp / Δt) + mg) / mg = (Δp / Δt · mg) + 1 = (m [√ (2gh2) + √ (2gh1)] / Δtmg) + 1 =

                = (√ (2gh2) + √ (2gh1) / Δt · g) + 1 - considering the blow to be elastic, because nothing happened to the phone, and Δt = 0,1 s.
            3. Arkan
              Arkan 26 November 2012 18: 36
              0
              Quote: Konsmo
              Our warriors say one launcher of 12 missiles. covers the area of ​​Moscow. Volumetric vacuum explosion.

              o_O
        2. Pimply
          26 November 2012 11: 53
          0
          Already 1000 times the topic with flags has been procrastinating. The administrators replaced them when some zealous forum users started massively minusting the Israelites not by their statements, but by flags, because of their prejudices
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 26 November 2012 11: 41
        +2
        Quote: Karish
        I do not understand what kind of indefatigable desire to falsify the achievements of others? The iron dome shot down 90% of the missiles due to fall and cause damage and this is a fact (but the fact of things is stubborn)
        We can only congratulate those who were involved in the development and production of the system!
        1. Pimply
          26 November 2012 12: 08
          0
          Alibek, for you interesting information - not military

          The Israeli state water company Mekorot is at an advanced stage of negotiations on cooperation with the Azerbaijani government in the field of water management in this country.

          http://www.newsru.co.il/finance/26nov2012/mekorot304.html
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 26 November 2012 13: 08
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            The Israeli state water company Mekorot is at an advanced stage of negotiations on cooperation with the Azerbaijani government in the field of water management in this country.

            I hope that this cooperation will be at a high level and high quality, as well as in other areas with Israel!
            I believe that our country will be able to take for itself all the good that Israel has to offer !!
            Thanks for the link!
  • Professor
    Professor 26 November 2012 09: 30
    -1
    I wonder why the nose of the rocket is not symmetrical about the axis of the rocket?
    1. Rebus
      Rebus 26 November 2012 09: 57
      0
      Quote: Professor
      I wonder why the nose of the rocket is not symmetrical about the axis of the rocket?

      Maybe the boomerang rocket belay reusable wink ?(joke)
      In general, take Alekseeva to yourself, instead of missile defense, she can still work as a bullet catcher with an efficiency of 120%. (not a joke)
      1. Rebus
        Rebus 26 November 2012 11: 02
        +1
        I wonder why the cons?
        You don’t understand the joke or the old woman is sorry?
    2. mar.tira
      mar.tira 26 November 2012 10: 01
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      not symmetrical

      It's easier to say a curve! Will shoot from around the corner! good good
    3. yanus
      yanus 26 November 2012 10: 16
      -3
      Quote: Professor
      I wonder why the nose of the rocket is not symmetrical about the axis of the rocket?

      Oh God, the Professor doesn't know something about Israeli rockets! Usually, just touch him a little, so he will copy and paste half a page with all sorts of "promotional materials". And here the most important expert is lost in conjecture. Where is this world heading ...
    4. Konsmo
      Konsmo 26 November 2012 10: 29
      -2
      In cartoons Jews do much. Here are our rods and apartments for themselves in 13 rooms bought and gold baubles. And the Jews also release cartoons about their achievements. Creative nation. When All of Israel asks where the money is for the dome. Somehow he is very full of holes.
      1. Karish
        Karish 26 November 2012 10: 43
        +1
        Quote: Konsmo
        When All of Israel asks where the money is for the dome. Somehow he is very full of holes.

        In Israel, do not hope for a consensus about this, the system works and the money is spent correctly. And fortunately, we don’t have Serdyukovs, there’s no one to cut.
      2. Pimply
        26 November 2012 11: 57
        -1
        G-lord, well, are you really so envious, dear, that you so want to ruin something well done that others have? It is sad
    5. rero
      rero 26 November 2012 14: 24
      -1
      nos raketi ne simetrichen patamu chto tam raspalozeno srazu dve tipa gsn: radarnaia i elektropticheskaia //
    6. Rumata
      Rumata 27 November 2012 03: 11
      0
      Quote: Professor
      I wonder why the nose of the rocket is not symmetrical about the axis of the rocket?

      "As already said there are 2 GOS" AR and IR "combined, in English (and in Hebrew) the Wiki says" a radar and an electro-optical sensor ", perhaps there is an AP or PAR + thermal imager. "one after another", but at the same time give an overview of both sensors - we got this shape of the nose. "
      Thinking from here -
  • baltika-18
    baltika-18 26 November 2012 10: 18
    +2
    The name is the sonorous "David's Sling." Who is in the role of Goliath? Hamas with "Qasams"?
    1. Rebus
      Rebus 26 November 2012 10: 33
      +2
      Quote: baltika-18
      ". Who is in the role of Goliath? Hamas with the Qasams?"

      Don't ... Hamas doesn't pull the role of Goliath, it's too small. But the name - "David's Sling", it is firstly majestic and gratifies pride, and secondly gives a sense of protection. Although the name for the air defense system - missile defense is strange, it is more suitable for the name of a howitzer or mortar .......
      1. Pimply
        26 November 2012 11: 58
        -2
        What is strange? Look not Russian names 8)))
        1. Rebus
          Rebus 26 November 2012 13: 43
          +2
          Quote: Pimply

          What is strange?

          The most important oddity of the name is that the sling is a throwing weapon that was used against manpower. Historically, it has been proven that the effectiveness of the sling was not great ... Names: "iron dome", "shell", etc. more suitable for the name of protective systems, while the name "David's sling" is suitable for uncontrolled shock systems like the same kasams ....
          1. Pimply
            26 November 2012 13: 51
            -1
            Well, David's sling is one of the names. As for inefficiency - with my slings, one man's jaw was broken - despite the fact that he was wearing a protective helmet, the second - his ear was torn off. From a distance of 150 meters. And these are modern guys. In the case of David, as we recall, with little effort, he defeated the most powerful warrior in a rival army. This is about slings in general, and about David’s party in particular.

            Now about the system itself. David's sling is one of its names. Nowadays, its second name is more often used - "The Magic Wand".
            1. Rebus
              Rebus 26 November 2012 14: 02
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              Well, David's sling is one of the names. As for inefficiency - with my slings, one man's jaw was broken - despite the fact that he was wearing a protective helmet, the second - his ear was torn off. From a distance of 150 meters. And these are modern guys. In the case of David, as we recall, with little effort, he defeated the most powerful warrior in a rival army. This is about slings in general, and about David’s party in particular.

              I can add - the Incas used gold bullets for the sling, which, due to the high density of gold, were superior to lead in their combat qualities. At the same time, only Sapa Inca used the shells of gold, military leaders from the nobility of Quechua used silver shells (approximately equal to lead ones in efficiency) and flew these shells to a distance of 280 meters, but it is not written anywhere that arrows, cores and missiles were shot down with slings shells ...
              Perhaps they decided to call the sling a missile defense system because of the cost, following the example of the Incas firing gold shells?
              1. Pimply
                26 November 2012 14: 07
                -1
                Respected. For starters, you probably should take a look at the cost of similar systems. Protection has always been expensive. And stinginess in her questions is even more expensive.

                No, I understand that you really want to work hard, do sophistry, trolling. But I'm sorry - I do not file. Have a nice day and good luck.
                1. Rebus
                  Rebus 26 November 2012 14: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Have a nice day and good luck.

                  And good luck to you in your work hi
  • Ruslan
    Ruslan 26 November 2012 11: 25
    -1
    Jews, instead of seeking compromises and realistically solving the security problems of their state, erect a wall around themselves in the form of iron domes like crusader castles during the crusades. The knights also hoped for their weapons and defenses, and how did it end? It will also be with you because for all sorts of domes and slings there will always be an answer sooner or later. But when the US economy is not able to pay for Jewish defenses and innovations then everything will end.
    1. Pimply
      26 November 2012 12: 01
      -1
      Dear Ruslan: Before making empty statements, I recommend reading more about the history of the region, and, in particular, about attempts to compromise - and, often, very painfully, from the Jewish side. For example, you can recall the agreement with Egypt, when entire cities were evacuated, and a territory the size of all of Israel was given away for peace. Or unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. Are these not attempts to find a compromise? Oslo Accords?
      1. Cat
        Cat 26 November 2012 14: 19
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Before making empty statements - I recommend reading more about the history of the region

        If you carefully study this very story, it turns out that the state of Israel was created by a strong-willed decision of the UN (with the blessing of the USSR and the USA). Moreover, most of the racial did not live there from time immemorial, but were deliberately resettled from Europe in the 20s. And then Hitler added agility to Jewish immigrants, and not only him. Interestingly, the opinion of the Palestinians and other Arabs there was not taken into account in principle. Therefore, their "desire" to go to the world is not surprising.

        Now, if some Negroes or Chinese come to your house and occupy one of the rooms under the pretext that in the century before last, there was a house on this place where their distant ancestors lived - what will you do? Take something heavy and expel the tenants to Benin’s mother — or will you carefully study the papers they showed, issued by some international organization and confirming the rights to your living space, and try to find mutually beneficial options based on these papers? Oh well.
        1. Professor
          Professor 26 November 2012 15: 10
          0
          If you carefully study this very story, it turns out that the state of Israel was created by a strong-willed decision of the UN (with the blessing of the USSR and the USA). Moreover, most of the racial did not live there from time immemorial, but were deliberately resettled from Europe in the 20s. And then Hitler added agility to Jewish immigrants, and not only him. Interestingly, the opinion of the Palestinians and other Arabs there was not taken into account in principle. Therefore, their "desire" to go to the world is not surprising.

          At the same time, many states were formed, for example, Syria-1941, India -1947, Jordan-1946, Egypt-1922, Pakistan-1947 and a lot more.
          For the presence of Arabs and Jews in the promised land, read Napoleon’s biographer or Mark Twain’s travel notes. I hope you will not claim to be a Jew?
          1. Cat
            Cat 26 November 2012 18: 04
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            For the presence of Arabs and Jews in the promised land, read Napoleon’s biographer or Mark Twain’s travel notes. I hope you will not claim to be a Jew?

            I did not say that until the beginning of the 20th century there were no Jews there at all. There were, of course ... But not enough, and without a mass organized resettlement, there could not even be any talk of any Jewish state.
            Well, if you dig even deeper, it turns out that the homeland of the Jews is not the promised land, but even Egypt. Why didn’t they start their own state there?
            1. Professor
              Professor 26 November 2012 22: 33
              -1
              Well, if you dig even deeper, it turns out that the homeland of the Jews is not the promised land, but even Egypt. Why didn’t they start their own state there?

              And where is their homeland?
              1. Cavas
                Cavas 26 November 2012 22: 43
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                And where is their homeland?

                Birobidzhan - City on Bir! wassat



                And if from Israel? wassat



                Weismir, we are waiting for you! laughing

                - Where did you go?
                - Yes, to the carnival. In Birobidzhaneyro!
              2. Cat
                Cat 26 November 2012 23: 33
                +2
                Quote: Professor
                And where is their homeland?

                Quote: Cat
                the homeland of the Jews - no promised land, but .......... Egypt.

                so - more understandable?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 26 November 2012 23: 46
                  -1
                  Clarify the borders of that Egypt. It seems to me that it covered the only territory in the Middle East without minerals now called Israel.
                  I always thought that Jews from the interfluve ...
                  1. Cat
                    Cat 27 November 2012 00: 07
                    +2
                    Quote: Professor

                    Clarify the borders of that Egypt. It seems to me that it covered the only territory in the Middle East without minerals now called Israel

                    Well, in your opinion, what happens: Moses companions walked in circles for 40 years - if they ended up in the same place? =))

                    But seriously, I can’t name the exact location of the Jewish homeland - because I don’t remember, but google laziness. I can only say that it was somewhere near the Nile River (which water would not flow through the territory of modern Israel wink ).
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 27 November 2012 00: 15
                      0
                      google laziness

                      Who would doubt that. wink
                      1. Cat
                        Cat 27 November 2012 00: 29
                        +1
                        Well Duc .... I, as the right cat, lazy about the position supposed tongue
                        Another thing is you - would be ashamed to admit complete ignorance of the history of your own people ...
                    2. Arkan
                      Arkan 27 November 2012 00: 25
                      +2
                      Quote: Cat
                      I can only say that it was somewhere near the Nile River (which wink would not flow through the territory of modern Israel).

                      The homeland of the Jews is Ancient Judea, it is their first state, the second is present-day Israel. They had the same relationship to Ancient Israel as the Finns had to Russia (they were not long in its composition). Further, the vassal dependence of Judea on Assyria, and then from Egypt.
  • sxn278619
    sxn278619 26 November 2012 13: 06
    0
    Jews have once again shown that they are the most intelligent nation in the world.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 27 November 2012 00: 34
      +1
      Quote: sxn278619
      Jews once again showed that they are the most intelligent nation in the world

      Yeah, and the Japanese (for example) with their microelectronics are full suckers.
  • Adel
    Adel 26 November 2012 13: 10
    -4
    an iron dome shot down only 30 percent of missiles
    and the 1043 building suffered so boast
    1. rero
      rero 26 November 2012 14: 35
      0
      zeleznii kupol sbil 421 raket grad ikasam i fajer 5 iz 450 katorie dalzni bili papast na naselionnie punkti (astalnie neskolko soten raket sistema proignorilovala patamu chto ani dolzni bil upast v atkritoi mestni rastnosti rasti ostnosti rasti ostnosti kosti rasti 29 om zdaniam // .. atkuda takie glupie i lzivie komentarii berutsa ia ne panimaiu
    2. Rumata
      Rumata 27 November 2012 03: 27
      -1
      Quote: Adel
      1043 building so boast

      About 50 missiles fell into the urban area, 1043 buildings were damaged, that is, 200 buildings per missile, probably from Gaza they were shot with vacuum bombs from the message above.
      PS
      For those who read diagonally news, 1700 cases of damage to property, cars, broken windows, the retired jaw of a pensioner who ran into the security room so much that he dropped it and broke it, etc., etc.
  • Cat
    Cat 26 November 2012 14: 36
    +2
    stupid question: in honor of which bourgeois missile defense and air defense systems have inclined guides, in contrast to the same S-300/400? Indeed, given the small territory of the same Israel and the ability to rake off an attack from any azimuth, reaction time plays a primary role, and it takes precious seconds to turn a device or a missile ... Maybe there are certain technical limitations, or there is some kind of higher sense - enlighten, plz if anyone is in the know.
    1. rero
      rero 26 November 2012 15: 27
      -1
      ne vse sistemi pvo i pro imeiut naklonnoe napravliaushie, naprimer sistema pro arow 2 i 3 imeiut vertikalnie napravlaiushie
  • beard999
    beard999 26 November 2012 17: 28
    0
    In my opinion, it’s still difficult to say anything definite about the Iron Dome air defense system. Too many victorious reports, not enough specific information, and it comes exclusively from the Israeli side. Therefore, all conclusions are not certain, at least.
    First about the "opponent" of the Iron Dome. Firstly, a little about the territory from which the shelling was conducted. The Gaza Strip is a small stretch of 48 km long and 6-12 km wide. The entire territory is easily controlled by Israel, and from land, and from the sea, and from the air (the same drones). And of course, artillery shoots right through, not to mention aviation. As far as I understand from the media, the Hamas PU, for the most part, were located at a distance of 0,5 - 4 km from the border with Israel on the territory (or in the immediate vicinity) of Palestinian settlements. Thus, the positional launch areas were very limited and generally known to the Israelis.
    Secondly, the bulk of the rockets launched by Hamas was home-made Kassam and Al-Quds missiles, which are made in basements, literally on their knees. Everything is homemade in them - the body, plumage, engine, PU, ​​warhead with explosives and fuse. The effectiveness of such scrubbing is extremely low. If you believe the Israeli numbers (1506 missiles launched, 421 shot down and 58 missed), then it is easy to calculate that out of 100% of the launched missiles, less than a third hit the target (479 missiles or 31,8%). And this despite the fact that the Hamas fired on huge area targets !!!
  • duchy
    duchy 26 November 2012 19: 10
    +2
    "Entot Kumpol" is unlikely to save from a massive strike. Yes, rare launches of Khasans made in artisanal conditions are quite possible to intercept. And in the event of a massive strike from the Grad division, it will obviously not help. This is most likely a purely psychological treatment of its population, to calm the soul. In fact, this system should work against operational-tactical missiles. It's fun to shoot a rocket worth, well, a few thousand bucks, at a metal blank about one and a half meters long with a dozen kilograms, or maybe less, explosives. It is easier to calculate the launch site along the trajectory and cover it with artillery. Cheaper to yourself will be, as they say "cheap and cheerful".
    1. Pimply
      26 November 2012 21: 01
      0
      The hail division is usually destroyed by several other means.
      1. Kars
        Kars 26 November 2012 21: 26
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        The division of hail is usually destroyed by several other means.

        Yes, about the same topic as how you destroy the launch cash registers, etc. The truth is that MLRS divisions usually have a cover which the mentioned launch cash registers do not have.

        But Egypt seems to have enough of its internal problems, so I don’t see Abrams and Merkava in the near future.
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 26 November 2012 22: 01
          -1
          Quote: Kars
          tet-a-so Abrams and Merkava I do not see in the near future

          I think everything would be decided there by aviation, which is better for the Jews.
          1. Kars
            Kars 26 November 2012 22: 06
            +2
            Quote: Arkan
            I think everything would be decided there by aviation, which is better for Jews

            Everything can be - but still it would be interesting to see. Although of course it’s not good to say so.
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 26 November 2012 22: 08
              +1
              Maybe we'll see. Let's wait. wink
          2. Karish
            Karish 26 November 2012 22: 58
            +2
            Quote: Kars
            tet-a-so Abrams and Merkava I do not see in the near future

            Quote: Arkan
            I think everything would be decided there by aviation, which is better for the Jews.

            I think that the bookmarks in Egyptian technology (American Prospect) will not even let them budge. wassat
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 26 November 2012 23: 12
              0
              Quote: Karish
              I think that the bookmarks in Egyptian technology (American Prospect) will not allow them to even budge

              They were collected in Egypt. However, it doesn’t matter.
              1. Karish
                Karish 26 November 2012 23: 17
                0
                Quote: Arkan
                They were collected in Egypt. However, it doesn’t matter.

                Really not important.
                What were they collected from? From what America sent wassat \

                The Egyptians themselves, only from a dead donkey ears, can collect laughing
            2. Kars
              Kars 26 November 2012 23: 19
              +2
              Quote: Karish
              I think that the bookmarks in Egyptian technology (American Prospect) will not allow them to even budge


              So bookmarks are not a myth? But please write about this to the author of articles on VO. )))) SWEET_SIXTEEN
        2. Pimply
          26 November 2012 22: 47
          -1
          Predicting something in the Middle East is bad
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 26 November 2012 23: 02
            +1
            Pimply,
            Well, I do not pretend to be a soothsayer, I wrote “possibly.” According to polls, more than seventy percent of Egyptians want to break the peace treaty with Israel.
            1. Pimply
              27 November 2012 01: 14
              -1
              And they always wanted to. The fact is that the situation is this - for Egypt, a war with Israel, although desirable, is in many ways fatal.
              Firstly, loans from the USA, Europe, etc., as well as subsidies, will be gone. Of course, you can hope for the Arab brothers. But too often they threw. And Egypt is now in such a deep economic train. And keep in mind that Israel is de facto stronger. This is understood in Egypt. And to lose the Sinai in the second round - which will be ridiculous for the second time - no one wants to. They will go to all these measures in the most extreme cases, when there is absolutely nowhere for steam to bleed. So - they will maintain quiet hatred, as always.
  • Karish
    Karish 26 November 2012 23: 08
    +1
    Quote: Arkan
    Well, I do not pretend to be a soothsayer, I wrote “possibly.” According to polls, more than seventy percent of Egyptians want to break the peace treaty with Israel.

    Hungry Egyptian society is so changeable and Mursi knows this very well. Today they have cakes for lunch, they blame everything on the Jews and he (Mursi) is not touched. Mursi will break off the agreement tomorrow (though why did you decide that he will defeat Israel right away), and will be left without money from America and Europe, and the Israeli travel industry will be bombed on the first day.
    So when in Egypt there is nothing to eat, instead of cakes they will devour him (Mursi) himself. And he perfectly understands this.
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 26 November 2012 23: 17
      +2
      Karish,
      O_o
      Quote: Karish
      the truth why did you decide that he will immediately defeat Israel

      And where did I write at least something like that?
  • Karish
    Karish 26 November 2012 23: 18
    -1
    Quote: Arkan
    And where did I write at least something like that?

    why then should they fight? To get the 5th time in the impudent Egyptian face?
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 26 November 2012 23: 27
      +1
      Karish,
      There can be a lot of reasons. Of course, I cannot imagine a situation in which Egypt could start a war (although everything is possible in our world), but if Israel gets involved in a protracted war with someone else, it may well intervene. There are all prerequisites for this.
      1. Pimply
        27 November 2012 01: 15
        -1
        The situation is possible - not even one. But unlikely.
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 27 November 2012 02: 08
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          The situation is possible - not even one. But unlikely.

          Well, I'm talking about the same thing. Well, as for the likelihood: what was the probability of the fall of the regime in Egypt a couple of years ago? And how it happened ... Where the breeze blows, it will pop there. What you said about the situation in Egypt - - true, but you did not take into account that there are other countries besides Egypt and Israel. How much do you assess the likelihood of a provocation organized by, say, Iran, in order to knock Egypt and Israel with their heads (and not only Egypt ...)? the mass, and "interested" - too many.
          1. Pimply
            27 November 2012 08: 31
            -1
            I take into account, I take into account. Even not only countries - entities. One of Hamas’s goals is what it was. As for Mubbarak, I’m saying that giving predictions about the Middle East is a disastrous thing. Although, in fact, is not the first revolution in Egypt, and not the first coup.
  • Allegedly
    Allegedly 26 November 2012 23: 29
    0
    Any country, when it is attacked or when its citizens are killed, must act like Israel with enemies. So that these enemies pissed in fear that the Mossad and Tzahal would come for them. And they’ll not just come, but already go, and right now, at any second, a rocket arrives or a bullet knocks out the brain. And there is no way to agree on the abolition of retaliation or delay it.

    I am convinced that any normal country should adopt these methods, and a doctor should go for every scum ...
    1. Arkan
      Arkan 26 November 2012 23: 38
      0
      Allegedly,
      Quote: JACOB
      that Mossad and Tzahal will come for them

      Once in Belgium professionals from the MOSSAD planted explosives in the phone of their enemy from the organization "Black October", called, made sure that the one they needed picked up the phone and ... tore off the head of an innocent bartender. They were often so wrong. to do Belgians with Jews, following your logic?
      1. Pimply
        27 November 2012 01: 16
        -1
        The situation was different. With the explosives and the target they guessed right. You have confused two different cases of the same operation.
        1. Arkan
          Arkan 27 November 2012 01: 42
          +1
          Pimply,
          Quote: Pimply
          The situation was different. With the explosives and the target they guessed right. You have confused two different cases of the same operation.

          You know how to "clarify" laughing .Operation against "Black October" - unlimited, and possibly still going on. During its implementation in Europe, white killed several people who have nothing to do with "Black October". Of course, it was a long time ago, and (perhaps) I'm confusing the name of the European country in which the Jews killed the bartender (I don't have access to this information now, checking it on the internet is a long song (a lot needs to be filtered), but in everything else - too there were already loud scandals in order to consider that the professionals "guessed".
          1. Arkan
            Arkan 27 November 2012 02: 35
            +1
            However - yes, we can say that "guessed" but with what attempt? (I am silent and cry about such things as "detention", "trial", "the right to defense in court", "presumption of innocence" adopted in supposedly civilized countries.) crying
          2. Pimply
            27 November 2012 08: 34
            -1
            On July 21, 1974, in a so-called Lilihammer operation, a Mossad agent team in Lillehammer (Norway) destroyed Moroccan Ahmed Buchka, who had nothing to do with the terrorist attack in Munich, after an informant reported that Ali Hasan Salameh, Force 17 commander Black September operative.
            1. Arkan
              Arkan 27 November 2012 13: 16
              0
              ))) This is not the case. Even on the wiki (oddly enough) we are talking about a few victims, though the information is very docked. ---------------------- The first of the alleged organizers of the attack, Abdel Vail Zuyter, was shot dead on October 16, 1972. By June 1973, 13 out of 17 people on the Mossad list were killed. [6] The leader of the organization "Black September" Abu Ayyad, was killed by his associates in 1991, 19 years after the Munich rally. [7]

              During the operation in Lebanon and Norway, several unauthorized persons involved in terrorism were killed. [8] So, in Lillehammer, Norway, Mossad's agents killed a waiter, Ahmed Buchiki (a Moroccan by birth), in front of his pregnant wife when they returned home from the movie theater. Agents confused him with Ali Hassan Salame, the leader of the Black September group. Some Mossad agents were detained by Norwegian police for this murder and received prison sentences of 2,5 to 5 years, while others, including the leader, managed to escape. However, none of the convicts spent more than 22 months in prison; later they were amnestied and deported to Israel. The Israeli government paid compensation to the family of the deceased waiter, but refused to accept responsibility for the murder. [9]

              The task was not completed in full, the ideologist and organizer of the attack, Abu Daoud managed to remain unharmed after several attempts on his life. In 1993, Israel allowed Abu Dawood to visit the West Bank, [10] and in 1996 he visited the Gaza Strip, where he attended a meeting of the PLO. Abu Daud died at Andalus Damascus Hospital on July 3, 2010, at the age of 73. [11]

              The last of the three released terrorists - Jamal al-Gashey (Jamal Al-Gashey) escaped several assassination attempts and now lives in one of the African countries. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%C
              2%AB%D0%93%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B9%C2%BB
              1. Arkan
                Arkan 27 November 2012 13: 37
                0
                Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak told La Repubblica the details of the operation in Beirut to eliminate three leaders of the Black September Palestinian terrorist group, whose members took hostage the athletes and coaches of the Israeli national team at the 1972 Munich Olympics.

                Wearing a black female wig, with powdered cheeks, with two grenades hidden in a bra and a pistol with a silencer in her purse, Barak arrived at the very heart of enemy territory, the capital of Lebanon, at the head of the elite Sayeret Metkal unit (the legendary commandos of the Israeli army). Three Palestinian leaders, who in Israel were considered the customers of the 1972 Olympics attack, were eliminated.

                “Unfortunately, together with them we had to kill seven Lebanese gendarmes and two women who got in our way,” recalls Barak, who has received the largest number of military awards in Israeli history, and a former prime minister who is closer in 2000. everyone approached the signing of a peace treaty with Arafat (with the active participation of former US President Bill Clinton - ed.). http://palm.newsru.com/world/25jan2006/munich.html
                1. Arkan
                  Arkan 27 November 2012 14: 04
                  0
                  A little off topic - but also interesting .------------- The external threat disappeared, and the country, which had previously forgiven its special services everything, began to ask them unpleasant questions. When Shin Bet counterintelligence agents beat two captured terrorists to death in 1984, their organization was branded in Israeli newspapers as the "Jewish Gestapo." But there was even more noise when it was discovered that the Mossad, in spite of the PLO, had nurtured the Islamic groups Hamas and Hezbollah, opposition to Arafat! It's as if the Chechen terrorists who blew up houses in Moscow were brought up by the FSB.

                  Hamas and Hezbollah are out of Israeli control. And it was more difficult for the Mossad to fight them than with the former terrorists: the Islamist fanatics were not afraid to die in the fight against the infidels, because they immediately went to heaven. They simply tied themselves with explosives and blew themselves up on the streets of Israeli cities, killing and injuring hundreds of people. Or they loaded trucks with explosives and rammed them into houses with infidels, as in 1983 in Lebanon. There, an explosion of American barracks killed 241 US Marines. By the way, in the back of the truck there was hexogen, now infamous in Russia. The next blow to the reputation of the Israeli special services as a whole (and hence the Mossad) was inflicted in November 1995, when the country's Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was killed in Tel Aviv, seemingly unleashing a bloody Jewish-Arab knot. It was revealed that his killer, Israeli Ygal Amir, was an informant for the Israeli counterintelligence Shin Bet. Newspapers immediately suggested that the prime minister had fallen victim to a conspiracy by his own special services.
                  http://www.sem40.ru/warandpeace/military/mossad/3939/
                  Longtime Israeli intelligence aficionado, writer Frederic Forsyth, says, "The Mossad has been corrupted by high salaries and newspaper fame."
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 27 November 2012 00: 32
    +2
    Quote: Verde
    Russia simply does not have a system capable of performing the tasks that the Iron Dome

    Our systems are designed for war, and not for police operations, in case of shelling with a normal, at least the same "hail" of the dome, it will smoothly turn into a colander, it would never have occurred to our designers to create a personal air defense system against "flying water pipes ". A country that allows itself to be bombarded with such "weapons" is clearly sick or there is some interest in this. The Arabs on the campaign specifically anger them, spending the loot of the host side. wink
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 27 November 2012 01: 04
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    The division of hail is usually destroyed by several other means.

    He will wait for these "others", 45 seconds, and "it's time to go road", a very mobile target, which is dangerous. smile
    And those who want to shoot at the "tornado" should remember that at the apogee the rocket of the tornado is divided into many independent elements (by the way, the speed is 1200 meters per second), And the rocket of the "dome" one flew to intercept (300 meters per second), what a shame ... wink
    1. Karish
      Karish 27 November 2012 16: 25
      0
      Quote: Locksmith
      And those who want to shoot at the "tornado" should remember that at the apogee the rocket of the tornado is divided into many independent elements (by the way, the speed is 1200 meters per second), And the rocket of the "dome" one flew to intercept (300 meters per second), what a shame ...

      Only tornado is not a city. Weight over 800 kg. You won’t bring it on donkey and you won’t start it in one second. Therefore, as a goal (for Israel it was not a problem) because Intelligence has long identified warehouses and mine installations (Fajar-5, almost an analogue of Smerch), even on TV showing the film shot by the UAV as they load them into the mines with a crane. Therefore, all (practically) were destroyed in the first blow. Only a few remained.
  • bart74
    bart74 27 November 2012 01: 56
    +1
    The territory is small. Creating an effective missile defense is not a problem. Although anyway, any defense can be pierced.
  • Rumata
    Rumata 27 November 2012 03: 56
    0
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  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 27 November 2012 16: 28
    +2
    Again, they all piled up. And technology, and Jews and Arabs and "other different Swedes."
    This is a relatively economical missile defense system designed to fill the niche between long-range missile defense systems such as Arrow "and small missile systems such as" Iron Dome ". The task seems to be successfully solved, although, as with any such messages, it is difficult to distinguish the true state of affairs from advertising especially in terms of efficiency / cost.
    It is also attractive in this system that the sources of information for it can be not only ground-based radars, but also airborne targets detection tools installed on ships, planes, drones, etc. p. and tied into a single air defense / missile defense information system.
    In addition, this system is unified in many elements with the Iron Dome system that has been tested in a real combat situation and has shown very good results for very difficult goals. So there is much to learn from the Jews. And it would be nice.
    1. Rumata
      Rumata 27 November 2012 18: 16
      0
      Quote: gregor6549
      Again, they all piled up. And technology, and Jews and Arabs and "other different Swedes."

      Just next time you need to write about the country through the looking glass, and the missile defense tests "Sword of Achilles" and "Iron Parallelepiped", then the local Boys-Kibalchishes will not run into a flood. They react to the word Israel, they react like Pavlov's dogs, with rapid saliva and, most importantly, bile
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 27 November 2012 18: 48
        +1
        Rumata,
        The Kibalchish boys don't care about Israel and its missile defense. Israel gave the Arabs an example of how to do business, spawned a bunch of terrorists (along with the United States) with whom it is now "heroically" fighting, and is constantly trying to involve someone in their problems yet, but this - yes, I don’t like it. If you make some porridge, eat it for your health, do not crap! And we will watch.
        1. Rumata
          Rumata 27 November 2012 20: 46
          0
          Quote: Arkan
          Brewed porridge - eat on your own health, do not hang up! And we will observe.

          This is the difference between you, kibalchish, and me. When there were problems in Chechnya and Dagestan, it never crossed my mind to say something like “Russia itself has spawned, let’s take a steam bath now,” and you write with boiling water during every failure of Israel or the United States, such an outlet ... or a hobby. I don't even argue with you about "spawned", and the rest of the epic pearls, I'm not stupidly interested in this. I know in advance what you will say, because all your "arguments" are so stereotyped that I often do not know to cry or laugh, the same thing as woodpeckers on all sites and forums. The same arguments, the same references and quotes, I've been reading this for about 15 years, probably, and the constant deja vu in disputes has tired me for a long time. So continue to be plagued with bile, ripping off the veils and bringing Jews and Americans to clean water, you apparently like this game of one actor (or at one gate), go on, but I'll just ignore ..
          1. Allegedly
            Allegedly 27 November 2012 21: 16
            +1
            Quote: Rumata
            When there were problems in Chechnya and Dagestan


            Then it was necessary to cover at least one source of financing of terrorism, for example, Qatar. And the rest would not dare to do this. They would piss for fear, but would not dare ...

            "... The microscopic territory of the Emirate makes it extremely tempting to solve the Qatari problem in this case with one successful launch of a missile that fell from supports. Well, or hundreds of missiles - soldiers are so crooked everywhere ... Then, of course, you will have to apologize, but the problem will be solved. ..." (from)
          2. Arkan
            Arkan 28 November 2012 03: 36
            +1
            Rumata,
            laughing Indeed, it is stupid to argue with me, I draw most of the information about Israel from Jewish sources. Well, if you don’t like what they “expose” and “rip off the veils” - so maybe the Jews should try not to lie? However, what is it about I, Israel, even the Jews who tried to achieve the truth, managed to accuse of anti-Semitism (this is where the game is so a game with only one goal). Only the grave will fix a crooked one.
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 27 November 2012 16: 49
    +1
    Related link: http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/3/1023.pdf