The air defense of Ukraine was strengthened by Polish anti-aircraft self-propelled guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka"

The photo is illustrative

Poland supplied Ukraine with an unnamed number of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", Ukrainian resources report the appearance of anti-aircraft guns in the colors characteristic of the Polish army in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Ukrainian air defense was strengthened by Polish Shilka anti-aircraft guns. The number of transferred ZSUs is not called, but it is suggested that Ukraine received the remaining unmodernized part of the Soviet-made ZSU-23-4 in service with the Polish army. Ukrainian Internet resources report that one of the Polish "Shilok" was seen at one of the sites near the line of contact. The photo is fresher, as the installation is marked with white crosses, which the Armed Forces of Ukraine began to use not so long ago.

Meanwhile, the first information that Poland handed over to Ukraine a certain amount of Shilok appeared last year, but there were no details about this. However, as now.

It is worth noting that the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" was in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine even before the start of the special operation, the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine at the end of 2020 announced plans to modernize these installations to the level of 3SU-23-4M-A1 "Shilka", within which the anti-aircraft installation receives a new multifunctional radar station with a digital antenna array instead of an analog radar, and the analog computing system is replaced by a digital one. In addition, the modernized "Shilka" receives a navigation system, a support system and a block of digital-to-analog converters.

Poland also carried out the modernization of anti-aircraft self-propelled guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" to the new version ZSU-23-4MP Biała. The updated vehicles received a digital optoelectronic fire control system with an automated target tracking system both in daytime and at night, as well as Grom anti-aircraft missiles. The radar was dismantled from the installation - instead, the optical system determines the target. In addition, the ZSU was equipped with a night vision system.

By the way, the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" is also used by our troops in the NVO zone. Recently, a video was shown about one such installation, which the fighters affectionately called "grandmother." Despite its venerable age, the complex is very successful in hitting air targets.

Comments

[Fitter65]

Ukraine received the remaining unmodernized part of the Soviet-made ZSU-23-4 in service with the Polish army.

And? .... Literally on Thursday, March 23, on Russia 24, there was a report on the use of ZSU-23-4 by Russian marines, and, as the crew commander said, they have been "nightmares" almost from the very beginning of the SVO both infantry and UAVs ... Judging by in appearance, the car is also not much modernized, the insides were not shown ... Therefore, nothing surprising. Such a "broom" is a very useful thing, even without modernization ...

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Fitter65

"nightmares" of both infantry and UAVs ... Such a "broom" is a very useful thing, even without modernization ...

And with modernization it is even more useful! Now there is talk about the development of shells for "Shilka" with remote detonation and with increased fragmentation! A very necessary thing will then turn out to fight against UAVs, first of all, but, perhaps, with "chimers" too, at least as a "last chance"! Well, and helicopters ... "ground targets" are clients of these "Shilok"!
In general, no matter how hard they tried to "bury" "Shilka"; but all this is in vain! It's too early ! "Shilka" directly "said": Do not rush to bury me!

[Black Colonel]

Our military-industrial complex could not put a "remote detonation" in 30 mm, but in 23 mm it is certainly unlikely to succeed.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Black Colonel

Our military-industrial complex could not put a "remote detonation" in 30 mm, but in 23 mm it is certainly unlikely to succeed.

Firstly, in 30 mm, after all, they "stuck" (there was a message about ordering experimental batches of 30-mm shells with remote detonation in 2019-20) and, more recently, about ordering a batch to be sent to the NWO zone ...)
Secondly, I referred to the words of one of the leaders of Tekhmash (23-mm shells ...)

[Alex777]

Despite the successful use of "Shilka" in wars in the Middle East, during these hostilities, its shortcomings were also revealed - a short reach to targets (no more than 2 km in range), the unsatisfactory power of shells, and also the passage of air targets unfired due to the impossibility timely detection. The expediency of increasing the caliber of automatic anti-aircraft guns was worked out. Experimental studies have shown that the transition from a 23 mm caliber projectile to a 30 mm caliber projectile with a 2-3-fold increase in the mass of the explosive makes it possible to reduce the required number of hits to destroy an aircraft by 23-4 times. Comparative calculations of the combat effectiveness of the ZSU-30-4 and the hypothetical ZSU-17-300 when firing at a MiG-2000 fighter flying at a speed of 4000 m / s showed that with the same mass of expendable ammunition, the probability of defeat increases by about one and a half times, the reach by height - from XNUMX to XNUMX m. With an increase in the caliber of guns, the effectiveness of firing at ground targets also increases, the possibilities of using cumulative action shells in ZSU to destroy lightly armored targets such as infantry fighting vehicles, etc.

https://missilery.info/missile/tunguska

[Hitriy Zhuk]

A wick tube can be, why cycle on a number?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Well, and helicopters ... "ground targets" are clients of these "Shilok"!

Good morning to you, ZSU helicopters have not been a threat for a long time. The range of these is not enough, if only foolishly running into.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

ZSU helicopters have not been a threat for a long time

Have a nice one you too ! The practice of SVO has shown that in a situation where "there is not enough range", they try to use the ambush method ... the most probable flight "routes" of enemy helicopters are calculated for certain "mutual" dispositions of troops ... In addition, I don’t say, that "Shilka" remains the main anti-helicopter air defense weapon! And as for "foolishly running into", it happened and happens ... and not so rarely!

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Now there is talk about the development of shells for "Shilka" with remote detonation

It would be better if they put modern radars, an optical sight, a calculator, communications and navigation.
It would be cheaper and more efficient.

Quote: Nikolaevich I

to fight UAVs, first of all, but, perhaps, with "chimers" too,

With "chimers" will not work. The Shilka has about 57 rounds per second. In a second, the Chimers will fly 500 meters, plus or minus. Those. during the time between two Shilka shots, the rocket will fly approximately 8,5 meters. The hit probability will be unacceptably low.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

With "chimers" will not work. The Shilka has about 57 rounds per second. In a second, the Chimers will fly 500 meters, plus or minus. Those. during the time between two Shilka shots, the rocket will fly approximately 8,5 meters. The hit probability will be unacceptably low.

And how, with this reasoning, are you "going to" shoot? "Following" or "side"? I suggest "towards"! In any case, "chimers" will "seek to meet" with a goal! This means that the trajectory of the RS near the target can be calculated! You can calculate the moment of opening fire in range and height ... i.e. determine the "cube" of space where it should be, attacking the target "chimers" and fill it with shells ...

[Alexey Alekseev_5]

Well, you will get a lot of fragments from 23mm

[spektr9]

. Judging by the appearance, the car is also not much modernized, the insides were not shown

Which is highly doubtful

[paul3390]

Such a "broom" is a very useful thing, even without modernization ...

I’m afraid without new electronics - it won’t take modern small drones very well .. Still - how old is it .. But with the current radar - like an anti-drone broom, go into the very vein ..

[Maz]

Yes, it was used in Syria in the city on buildings, dear business, there were a lot of vidos. And there are no words about the UAV, its element.

[dmi.pris1]

At the end of the article about our Shilka. They were riveted at one time, mother don’t cry .. And the Poles appreciated and modernized. What prevented us from doing this?

[NDR-791]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

What prevented us from doing this? After all, how object air defense against a drone is a sweet thing ..

We were surprised about Shilka a month ago that we don’t see them at the front. But you can immediately see who reads the site and how it reacts. Our cart is still there, and the 404s immediately cut through the topic.

[Oleg812spb]

We were surprised about Shilka a month ago that we don’t see them at the front. But you can immediately see who reads the site and how it reacts. Our cart is still there, and the 404s immediately cut through the topic.

Probably, we have too many heads making decisions, each of which considers itself the smartest ...

[NDR-791]

Quote: Oleg812spb

Probably too many heads make decisions, each of which considers itself the smartest ...

It's a shame that for a year we did not understand this.

[igorbrsv]

How many shilok at the front we do not know .....
And we know everything else. And how many S-400s, and how many tanks and guns ... Yes, we don’t know the number of troops involved

[NDR-791]

Quote: igorbrsv

How many shilok at the front we do not know .....

Of course they are, even on the frames already come across. But in the TG channels nothing is heard from military correspondents about their work, which means there are not many of them and are used for their intended purpose, and not during assaults on fortifications, etc. And specifically how many of them we don’t need to know

[Black Colonel]

"But you can immediately see who reads the site and how they react"
As I understand it, the General Staff makes all decisions only after reading all the news and, most importantly, comments on the Military Review. Oh how!

[NDR-791]

Quote: Black Colonel

The General Staff accepts only after reading all the news and, most importantly, comments on the Military Review. Oh how!

I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about them. But you must admit - somehow suspiciously fast reaction. Although ... Who wants to, looking for opportunities, who does not want to look for excuses.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: NDR-791

We were surprised about Shilka a month ago that we don’t see them at the front.

Let's be surprised that "Tungusok" is not to be seen ...
Suddenly help?

[Alex777]

I have wanted to ask this question for a long time.
Where did the Tunguskas go?

[BARKAS]

In our motorized rifle brigade in the state, the Shilok division was still in the first Chechen one, and this, in the absence of air targets, why they are not there now is not clear.

[IVZ]

And the Poles appreciated and modernized. What prevented us from doing this?

With us, unfortunately, the modernization plans adopted during the maintenance of the database based on the results of the use of technology in them, as a rule, are forgotten immediately after the end of the database. In Afghanistan, "Shilki" were used to combat ground targets. Based on the results of the application, a modification was created without a radar, but with an increased BC. In my opinion, after the completion of the database in Afghanistan, they simply forgot about it, but in Grozny it would be very useful.

[dmi.pris1]

I hope that these self-propelled miniguns are in storage, and have not been sawn and taken away. It will still come to "Derivation" ...

[vovochkarzhevsky]

In my opinion, after the completion of the database in Afghanistan, they simply forgot about it, but in Grozny it would be very useful.

Nothing is forgotten. The BMP-2 was quickly developed.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

.What prevented us from doing this?

Do ? So, they did! Even, at the "weapon" exhibitions of past years, they demonstrated it! And from the "Igla" MANPADS to the "hump"! What's the point? The reason is the same ... the MO has no money! Rasei cannot be understood with the mind! How to steal from the budget, so billions are "easy" for this! And how to give the army the weapons it needs - so penyonze is dumb!

[spirit]

And how to give the army the weapons it needs - so penyonze is dumb!

So in the army at the highest levels and the most dead thieves are sitting) no matter how much you give, according to modest estimates of analysts, half of the budget for the army is cut a year, the results of which we all saw perfectly during the SVO

[faiver]

They were riveted at one time, mother do not worry.

- far from "mom don't cry", given that they have been producing for almost 20 years. Decently exported, some have long exhausted their resources and disposed of, there is not much left ...

[Fitter65]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

x at one time they riveted, mother don’t cry .. And the Poles appreciated and modernized. What prevented us from doing this?

I don’t know what and to whom interfered, but in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Shilka is still in service

Quote from: dmi.pris1

After all, as an objective air defense against a drone, a sweet thing ..

As an object I don’t know, sort of like

Designed for direct cover of ground troops, destruction of air targets at ranges up to 2500 m and altitudes up to 1500 m, flying at speeds up to 450 m / s, as well as ground (surface) targets at ranges up to 2000 m from a place, from a short stop and in movement. In the USSR, it was part of the air defense units of the ground forces of the regimental level.

Anti-aircraft artillery system ZSU-23-4 "Shilka". Designed for air defense of small objects, units of the Ground Forces in all types of combat and on the march at different times of the year and day, in all weather conditions, as well as to destroy lightly armored ground and surface targets.

[paul3390]

At the end of the article about our "Shilka". They were riveted at one time, mother do not cry ..

It’s interesting not even where Shilki is, but where Tunguska is .. There, the electronics are noticeably newer, and the caliber of machine guns is more ..

[Eug]

Oh, and in street battles, what a useful thing ... however, security requires serious, but here it’s like any LBT.

[rotmistr60]

Poland supplied Ukraine with an unnamed number of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4 "Shilka"

And it works great for low-flying targets and scatters to smithereens on ground targets. In 1978, during the "Company on the defensive with live firing" exercises, I was given a "Shilka" to reinforce. Shot at moving targets of armored personnel carriers. The management of the range later complained that it was impossible to restore the targets (the frames were in pieces) and some automatic target devices were damaged. Therefore, although the ZSU is old by the date of production, it can more than bring harm.

[Grandfather Fichteau]

Quote: rotmistr60

And it works great for low-flying targets and scatters to smithereens on ground targets.

In Afghanistan, these spirits were terribly afraid of these things .. Everything was blown to smithereens But the consumption of ammunition is huge !!

[yuriy1863]

When I was in practice in the Marine Corps brigade (1982), we were shown the practical use of the entire range of weapons and weapons. So, the major who conducted the lesson fired a signal flare and "Shilka" struck her with a direct hit in the first salvo, only sparks in different directions. I don’t know, maybe it happened by chance, but the impression has remained until now.

[B44]

In this case, age does not matter as much as in the case of a tank. This is a really useful weapon, I'm not going to criticize it, especially since it has been well upgraded. I wonder how much they gave.

[Oleg812spb]

Like, got into an evolutionary loop. Again there were goals for her. And her shooter for the near radius is again relevant.

[Private SA]

Actually, an incorrect term is allowed in the article. There are no "digital
antenna arrays ". There were and are phased antenna arrays and there are
the concept of digital data exchange protocols. That's how I was taught...

[solar]

Beamforming schemes differ.

The difference between the CAR and a type of active phased array antenna (AFAR) lies in the methods of information processing. The AFAR is based on a transceiver module (RPM), which includes two channels: receiving and transmitting. An amplifier is installed in each channel, as well as two devices for controlling the amplitude-phase distribution: a phase shifter and an attenuator.

In digital antenna arrays in each channel, a digital transceiver module is installed, in which the analog signal amplitude and phase control system is replaced by a digital signal synthesis and analysis system (DAC/ADC)[3][5][6][7][8].

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Цифровая_антенная_решётка

[Grandfather Fichteau]

Everyone gathered the west in the bottom of the barrel .. Well, well!
And we’ll grind the lord Russia and couldn’t stand it like that, remember the Second World War. All the same were against the USSR. And now the “former brothers” are corrupt against us.
Russia is only getting stronger and slacking off!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Grandfather Pikhto

Russia is only getting stronger and slacking off!

Vital, stalking, is it from the word "executioner"? Or misspoke according to Freud?

[invisible_man]

remember the Second World War All the same against the USSR were

In fact, the United States and Great Britain were allies of the USSR. What would we drive without their Studebakers? Yes, and the famous "one and a half" - a licensed copy of "Ford AA". And who sold us factories in the 30s? What is this, Soviet technology? Where could they come from if they couldn't even make a normal truck?

[KCA]

Shilka is a beast, there was no talk about AI yet, but Shilka's crew started the turbogenerator and left the car, she turned the tower herself and determined her / someone else's, against I-B, maybe not effective, but the helicopters, or in current realities The UAV is the thing, upgrade, put the OLS and put it back into operation

[vovochkarzhevsky]

but the helicopters, or in the current realities of the UAV, that’s it

Just not the most. Distance is not enough. Much more likely to catch a gaping IS (they traditionally do not see what is being done there on earth). And so only as the protection of objects from cruise missiles.

[KCA]

What is the range of four 23mm guns not enough for? 2400 rounds per minute, which UAV can directly avoid? Quad 25x25cm?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Not enough against helicopters. Yes, and with the UAV is also a question. But against cruise missiles as a close line of defense, that's it.

[KCA]

What's the question? Is it that at 2-3km 4x23mm they will cut off everything that flies or rides? Does the UAV have any special protection against guns? The helicopter will automatically cut the Shilka at once in automatic mode, while the crew will drink coffee in the nearest tent, the Shilka looks very beautiful in combat mode, there is no one inside, but it buzzes, turns the tower, the guns go down / up

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Could she work on her own? Back in those years?
Yes, she has no price!
It’s literally from the crew that only a driver is needed (and he hides in a trench), even if they hit you - no losses. Well, you don't have to teach anyone.

[faiver]

part of the ZSU-23-4 in service with the Polish army is still Soviet-made.

- Is there a non-Soviet-made Shilka?

[DenD]

Rather, it meant production in the USSR, and Polish modernization.

[cloner]

Where is the Tunguska? I have never seen it in the reports. Why don't we use them?

[kill the fascist]

Tunguskas were used in the NWO and are being used. If the author is trying to present the use of Shiok and Tugnusok as a sensation, then in vain. ZSU and ZRPK anti-aircraft systems occupying their own niche.

[Pavel57]

Next will be ZSU-23-4MP Biała?

[AdAstra]

Yes, these pcheeks and khhols don’t understand anything, here’s a mutant with tof based on mltb, that’s weight. What kind of shilka are there, and even more so Tunguzka.

[Radical]

Quote: Black Colonel

"But you can immediately see who reads the site and how they react"
As I understand it, the General Staff makes all decisions only after reading all the news and, most importantly, comments on the Military Review. Oh how!

I suppose that the decision-making mechanism in the General Staff is unknown even to the officers of this body of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - everything is so confusing and contradictory.

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Quote: Fitter65

"nightmares" of both infantry and UAVs ... Such a "broom" is a very useful thing, even without modernization ...

And with modernization it is even more useful! Now there is talk about the development of shells for "Shilka" with remote detonation and with increased fragmentation! A very necessary thing will then turn out to fight against UAVs, first of all, but, perhaps, with "chimers" too, at least as a "last chance"! Well, and helicopters ... "ground targets" are clients of these "Shilok"!
In general, no matter how hard they tried to "bury" "Shilka"; but all this is in vain! It's too early ! "Shilka" directly "said": Do not rush to bury me!

If it's not difficult, share a link to shells with remote detonation for this caliber.
And then something "vague doubts torment me" (C) about the expediency and even the possibility of such a bells and whistles in such a caliber. You didn't mess anything up?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Vadim Topal-Pasha

"I am tormented by vague doubts" (C) about the expediency and even the possibility of such a bells and whistles in such a caliber. You didn't mess up anything?

If it’s about whether I came up with this “info” myself, then I answer: no, I didn’t invent it ... I write what I remember ... 2 times I met info on the Internet with a link to an interview with a representative of Rostec about the development of 23- mm air blast shells ... But it seems that I myself did not really "believe" in the reality of such a message and did not copy it to the "archive"! Therefore, I can’t give this message on the page indicating the name of this representative ... But, if I “think”, I can remind you of the American KhM29 (20 mm) and KhM25 (25 mm) grenade launchers with the development of air-guided detonation grenades for them. .. This is a question of the "physical" possibility of creating such ammunition in such a small caliber ... In addition, I can say that there is a "shrapnel" (multi-element) 23-mm projectile 9-A-4256 with drawdown in the air (in flight), without mentioning, for example, 23-mm projectiles with chaff and with an expelling charge that fires in the air ... Even if we do not talk about the development of new projectiles, one can imagine such an application of 23-mm shrapnel projectiles 9-A-4256 .. . : Shells are fired with shrapnel decelerators of different times ... Stores are "stuffed" with such shrapnel according to a certain "algorithm" ... "algorithm" can also change! (Depends on the types of UAVs; that is, on the distance at which these types of drones are best fired!) It would be better to have a "single retarder", the operation time of which can be changed when the belt is equipped ...

[Vadim Topal Pasha]

Regarding the possibility, lan, let's assume that it is difficult, but possible. But what about expediency? What effect will we get after all the torment? Will the cost/effectiveness be too high?

[sdivt]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

underway talk about projectile development for "Shilka" with remote detonation and with increased fragmentation action

Knowing the slowness of our military-industrial complex, years, if not more, can pass from development to appearance in the troops (
And if they are just talking, then the dates of appearance are shifted so much to the right that the horizon is closer

[Illanatol]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

With "chimers" will not work. The Shilka has about 57 rounds per second. In a second, the Chimers will fly 500 meters, plus or minus. Those. during the time between two Shilka shots, the rocket will fly approximately 8,5 meters. The hit probability will be unacceptably low.

Thanks, funny.
Will the ZSU shoot from the side or still in the frontal projection of the rocket flight?
The displacement of the rocket in the latter case will be at least three orders of magnitude less.
The use of ZSU fire on such targets is quite effective, but the consumption of BP is still very high.
A larger caliber with a proximity fuse is preferred.

[nikanikolich]

Shaitan is the best car so far, it’s a pity that our wise men wrote it off, but how the spirits were afraid of it .......

[SNA]

Quote: Black Colonel

23 mm is certainly unlikely to succeed.

An expensive projectile is obtained. 45mm or 57mm would be more practical.

[SNA]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

situations when "there is not enough range", they try to use the ambush method

From an ambush and DShK trouble.

[Tim666]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Quote: Captain Pushkin

With "chimers" will not work. The Shilka has about 57 rounds per second. In a second, the Chimers will fly 500 meters, plus or minus. Those. during the time between two Shilka shots, the rocket will fly approximately 8,5 meters. The hit probability will be unacceptably low.

And how, with this reasoning, are you "going to" shoot? "Following" or "side"? I suggest "towards"! In any case, "chimers" will "seek to meet" with a goal! This means that the trajectory of the RS near the target can be calculated! You can calculate the moment of opening fire in range and height ... i.e. determine the "cube" of space where it should be, attacking the target "chimers" and fill it with shells ...

This has already passed, barrages towards the intended path of the missile, as a result, thousands of shells are needed to guarantee the destruction of the target, IMHO Shilka, even in the version modernized by the Poles or according to the latest projects of the Russian Federation, the system is too primitive for this, a couple of dozens of installations will need coordinated fire.