Marginalia of medieval manuscripts

130
Marginalia of medieval manuscripts
This is how the Luttrell Psalter looks like, which will be discussed later. As you can see, its pages are full of all sorts of scary fantastic creatures. England, 1325-1340s. british library


"The monster is oblo, mischievous, huge, staring and barking."
Epigraph to the book by Alexander Radishchev "Journey from St. Petersburg to Moscow"

History and culture. We have already addressed here more than once the topic of medieval illuminated manuscripts, which we used, first of all, as a source of information about knights and their weapons, as well as on the history of the Middle Ages in general. But our knowledge of them will not be complete if we do not get acquainted with such an interesting phenomenon that occurs on their pages as marginalia (from Latin “extreme” and “frame”).




Richard and Saladin. A typical joust. The drawing at the bottom of the page of the Luttrell Psalter, that is, a typical marginalia. England, 1325-1340s. british library

Moreover, it was so that until some time they were not, but then they appeared in the manuscripts. And the time when this happened is precisely established, as, indeed, the reason for their appearance. Just until a certain time, medieval books were created only in monasteries. Where everything was strict and decent. Therefore, the miniatures that adorned these books were also strict and noble.


And here, in place of the knights, we see monkeys. Book of hours. France, circa 1300-1325. Walters Art Museum

But then came the thirteenth century. Books began to be rewritten and designed not only in monasteries, but also in city workshops. Guilds of illustrators appeared, and with them the marginals - miniatures on the margins of books that did not depict anyone. There were animals, and people, and exquisite patterns - all outside the main text field.


A hunter with a falcon on horseback is... normal. "The Psalter of Luttrell". England, 1325-1340s. british library

And if earlier the fields of medieval books were empty, now many of them are filled almost to the limit. Moreover, very often marginal images did not connect with the plot of the book at all! The artist seems to be telling the readers of the book he has illuminated: “But I wanted to draw like this, and I took it, and painted it!”.


But a monkey with an owl on a goat is already something. "The Psalter of Luttrell". England, 1325-1340s. british library


In what a strange and, one might even say, indecent way, the bishop is depicted here! "The Psalter of Luttrell". England, 1325-1340s. british library

Moreover, very strange images that had never been seen in books before were included in the page decor. So, hybrid creatures became the main characters. In the manuscripts of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, absolutely monstrous creatures of incredible designs multiplied along the perimeter of the book sheet: the face of a man turned backwards, with legs, but without a body. Figures with several faces: on the chest, on the back or on the stomach, looking in different directions, hybrids of animals, people and plants. Such decor even received a special name - drolerie (from the French drôle - “funny”, “outlandish”).

Surprisingly, the monkey became the second most popular character of the marginals! On the pages of the manuscripts, monkeys, dressed as bishops, distribute blessings, monkey plowmen plow, fish, fight in tournaments. Monkey doctors... They were depicted examining vials of urine from their human patients. And it must have been funny. Otherwise, it would hardly be depicted. And maybe, to some extent, and instructive. Although it is difficult to find out.


And this is a crossbowman! "The Psalter of Luttrell". England, 1325-1340s. british library

It is believed that the monkey was chosen as a kind of mirror reflecting the actions of people, from peasants to the highest clergy. “Monkey decor” was called “baboon decor” (babuini in Latin or babewynes in Middle English).


Knight and snail. Gorleston Psalter. England, 1310-1324. british library

Another common animal is... the snail! First of all, these are hybrids of people with snails: the upper part belongs to a person, but the lower part belongs to a snail. And what would it mean, especially if we have a hybrid in front of us - a snail-archer? ..

But there are other scenes where knights run from snails or fight with them. This is seen as a clear mockery of chivalry. That is, a hint that not all knights were as brave as it is written in books. There is also such a point of view that the snail just symbolizes the knight, because it wears a shell on its body!


Snail fight. The Rutland Psalter, England, 1260 British Library

It is interesting that such marginalities are very often found in ... books of hours and psalms, that is, books in which frivolity does not seem to be depicted. But it is in them that they just meet literally at every step.

For example, take the well-known Luttrell Psalter*, in which many everyday scenes are depicted on the margins of the pages: peasants plow, a boy climbed a tree to pick cherries, and a watchman with a stick is about to drive him away, a peasant with a sling scares away birds, and King Richard fights Saladin. And right there on the margins of the psalter, a lot of things happen that ... "does not climb into any gates." And it is unlikely that this manuscript was created in complete ignorance of the customer. Far from it. Surely he was shown the intermediate stages of work, and he ... approved them!


Bird musician. There are a lot of such hybrids in the Maastricht Book of Hours manuscript. Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

That is, Luttrell saw this invasion of absolutely fantastic hybrids and plots for the design of fields that had nothing to do with the text. But he approved, otherwise, of course, they would not have appeared in the manuscript! But almost the “encyclopedia” of marginals is the “Maastricht Book of Hours”**.


Bishop with the body of a lizard. "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library


Bishop with flower tail. "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

After the snail, an important place in the marginals is occupied by ... rabbits and hares. They also don’t do anything: they attack knights with swords, and ride dogs, in a word, they live a very rich and sometimes quite human life. But with this eared and fluffy people, at least a little more clarity. The fact is that because of their tendency to unbridled reproduction, both hares and rabbits symbolized sin. Not necessarily carnal, although his too, but sin in general. That is, a rabbit attacking a knight meant that the poor fellow succumbed to sins! And he does not want to fight off a hare, trying to pull out a sword, but from sin! And a lot of rabbits is a lot of sins! In addition, it was believed that hares and rabbits can change their sex. Hence the hint of the duplicity of a hare or a rabbit. That is, it seems one, but in fact it is something opposite!


A monkey doctor examines the urine of a nun's patient. "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

An extremely popular topic of marginalia is everything related to the “call of nature” and the corresponding organs. Marginal characters constantly show each other and the reader their asses and anus. Bishops bless the asses of parishioners; abbots confess monks' asses; archers and crossbowmen shoot at the rear, as at a target; monkeys blow into the anus through pipes, and birds insert their beaks into the same place.


Blowing in the ass ... "Maastricht Book of Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

Further more. Marginals show us a real cycle of feces: the monkey relieves itself in the dragon's mouth, and the man, having collected his waste in a basket, brings it to the lady, and everything else of the same kind. That is, in this case, there is a very cynical attitude towards natural departures. And the fact that they deserved to get into an expensive book says a lot. That is, this is most likely an evil satire, understandable to the people of that era, and so topical that it was impossible to resist the image of its images!


The archer shoots ... And where does he shoot? "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

There were historians who proposed not to attach importance to these drawings, since they considered them a mere manifestation of the imagination of their authors, nothing more. However, it is difficult not to notice in many of them a clear mockery of the priesthood. And how else does it relate to the drawing, in which the bishop blesses the monk with a woman's face on his backside, and the cleric with a naked backside, kneeling before the again naked prelate, lets out gases. There is a clear ridicule of the sexual intemperance of the clergy of that time. Or, for example, such a miniature from The Romance of Lancelot of Lakes: a Dominican monk with a spear rushes at a nun who is also armed with a spear. A duel like this was impossible in principle. But it was drawn. So it meant something, didn't it? Most likely, this "duel" meant something completely different, often taking place between men and women, regardless of the cassocks.


And he shoots at this strange man! "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

In the manuscripts of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, there are entire galleries of animal clerics and hybrid clerics, for example, a wolf bishop, a snail bishop growing from a decorative shoot, a church procession in which rabbits walk. Moreover, it is funny that such scenes are found not only in the manuscripts of secular lords, which would be understandable as a desire to laugh at the clergy, but also in books ordered by bishops, abbots and other clergy. So it was a mockery of yourself? Or since they also came from noble families, then ... "the place of service did not play a role"? More important were intra-family relations, and who are you, a knight or a prelate - does it matter?


Fox Renard. Decretals of Pope Gregory IX (Smithfield Decretals). Southern France, circa 1340. british library

One of the favorite personalities of the Middle Ages is Renard the fox, the main character, or rather, the anti-hero of the "Novel of the Fox" (XII-XIII centuries). And it is not surprising that this popular character has found refuge in the margins. He is constantly found on the margins of manuscripts, sometimes in a miter and with a staff, sometimes in the form of a monk, from which we can conclude that here, firstly, there is a warning about human deceit, and secondly, more specifically, about that priests are as rogues as foxes!

There is a funny episode in "The Romance of the Fox" connected with Renard's funeral. He allegedly died, after which the animals and mass were celebrated for him, and with crosses, censers and candles they went with the coffin to the cemetery. But on the way, Renard resurrected and laughed at everyone. And the popularity of this plot turned out to be so great that they began to carve it in stone. And even on the walls of monasteries and temples. In particular, in the XNUMXth century it was carved on two capitals in the Strasbourg Cathedral, but then it was nevertheless destroyed during the Counter-Reformation.


Funeral of Fox Renard. Gorleston Psalter. England, 1310-1324. british library

In general, if we take a closer look at the sacred texts of medieval manuscripts, we will see something mundane, funny, and even simply obscene. In the center of the page in the miniature, Christ gives bread to the traitor Judas - and here, next to it, in the margins, there is a donkey in the papal tiara. Not only that, he has a forked tail, from which protrudes ... a musician. Here the warriors of King Herod kill the unfortunate babies of Bethlehem, and jesters in caps jump around in the fields in the thickets. In the initial (the first letter of the line), three kings are preparing to bring gifts to the baby Jesus - and below, two monkeys on horseback are preparing to converge in a mock knightly fight. In another initial, the executioners flay the skin alive from the Apostle Bartholomew - but in the fields the bishop, and even half-dressed, for some reason walks on stilts.


Funny conversation of funny characters, isn't it? "Maastricht Hours". Belgium, Liege, first quarter of the XNUMXth century. british library

Among the marginalia, one can also see such a bird as an owl, and even in the episcopal tiara. However, it was difficult to expect something good from an owl, so in the Middle Ages it had a bad reputation. In bestiaries and various allegorical images, she was associated with heretics and Jews, as she did her work at night. But both heretics and Jews were like her, because they rejected the light of Christ's truth. In addition, jesters were often depicted with an owl in their hands, which emphasized their buffoonery.

So, looking at the marginalia in the margins of medieval manuscripts, we can see a lot of things that seem to be hidden from our eyes!

* The Luttrell Psalter was created in England sometime between 1320 and 1345, commissioned by Sir Geoffrey Luttrell (1276–1345), Lord of Irnham Manor in Lincolnshire.

** The Maastricht Book of Hours is an outstanding illuminated manuscript. It was made in the first quarter of the 9,5th century in the Netherlands, in Liege and was used in the Dutch Maastricht. Today it is kept in the British Library. Its size, according to the official description, is only 7 × 5 cm, the text is 3 × XNUMX cm.


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  1. +14
    14 March 2023 04: 16
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    And we are familiar with marginalia, Or ideas from one primary source since childhood:


    Our tailors
    Brave what:
    "We are not afraid of animals,
    No wolves, no bears!"
    And how did you get out the gate
    Yes, we saw a snail -
    Scared
    Run away!

    Here they are
    Brave tailors!
    1. +8
      14 March 2023 16: 36
      And how did you get out the gate
      Yes, we saw a snail -



      Quietly, quietly crawl, snail,
      on the slope of Fuji
      smile
  2. +7
    14 March 2023 06: 01
    The section is dying, from the word at all. The comment does not apply to this article, so in general.
    1. +10
      14 March 2023 06: 14
      It's probably not easy to be a daily paper with few authors.
      1. +10
        14 March 2023 06: 16
        It's probably not easy to be a daily paper with few authors.
        Not about everyday life, about quality.
        1. +12
          14 March 2023 06: 23
          And here is a kind of dialectic.

          From the time I got to the forum, I wonder how much time it takes to prepare a good article.

          The answer is probably the whole professional life. And the deadline.
          1. +10
            14 March 2023 06: 30
            Just another question
            "Where did the elephants go?
            Which cities
            drovers lead
            learned camel?" (c) .. About the authors who were .. were different ..
            1. +10
              14 March 2023 06: 44
              Came after you. But some of the materials of interest, and found "in the archive."

              You rarely turn to the filing of newspapers. And you read daily in the morning.
              1. +20
                14 March 2023 06: 49
                Funny conversation of funny characters, isn't it?
                Previously, the comments were interesting. The commentators were. Different. Not about daily, about quality. The comment does not apply to your conversation. So... in general.
                1. +11
                  14 March 2023 07: 05
                  Wonderful.
                  And, again, the answer is already well worded:

                  Times do not choose
                  They live and die in them.
                  Greater vulgarity in the world
                  No, what to beg and blame.
                  If you can those on
                  As in the market, change.
                  1. +17
                    14 March 2023 10: 15
                    Hi all!
                    I'll add some excerpts from the manuscripts, okay? wink







                    Have a nice day, everyone! drinks
                    1. +10
                      14 March 2023 11: 01
                      It reminded me of a trip to the collective farm. The headlines of Soviet newspapers were also used based on the imagination of undergraduate students.
                      1. +10
                        14 March 2023 11: 18
                        It reminded me of a trip to the collective farm. The headlines of Soviet newspapers were also used based on the imagination of undergraduate students.

                        In general, I like this cycle of cartoons "the suffering Middle Ages". good They write - a board game was released on it. Looks like it's for adults... laughing



                      2. +7
                        14 March 2023 20: 01
                        With a cart - just amazing. And eateries always choose the best places.
                      3. +7
                        15 March 2023 00: 26
                        With a cart - just amazing.

                        Yeah, the spitting image of Anton. Yes Jozhin with Bazhin - just with a cart. fellow All Lyuley, and the rest, too, Lyuley. laughing
                2. +2
                  14 March 2023 20: 39
                  Previously, commentators supplemented the authors. So, in general .. to your comment.
          2. +6
            14 March 2023 06: 57
            Quote from Korsar4
            The answer is probably the whole professional life.

            How well you said. And right!
            1. +8
              14 March 2023 09: 31
              Quote: kalibr
              In addition, it was believed that hares and rabbits can change their sex.

              So the rabbit is a symbol of LGBT?
              I will assume that the snail is a symbol of mail, or rather the speed of delivery of parcels. The recorded record was that a parcel from Yaroslavl to Shchelkovo crawled for three weeks. 226 km in 500 hours is about 500 meters per hour, that is, about the speed of a grape snail.
              1. +7
                14 March 2023 16: 57
                So the rabbit is a symbol of LGBT?

                He doesn't look like...


                Just trying to punish the mail for bad work. laughing
    2. +14
      14 March 2023 07: 14
      The section has always been a "homestay" with a resource that collected a small group of "outcasts".
      1. +12
        14 March 2023 07: 29
        It remains to collect a portrait gallery. And on parchment. For eternity.
        1. +12
          14 March 2023 07: 34
          For eternity
          Yes. "Gallery of 1812".
          "Perhaps they will unearth in a thousand years,
          In wrappers of gum and pieces of coins "(C)
          1. +12
            14 March 2023 07: 41
            If you can't shed a lot of blood, write a thicker book.
            1. +14
              14 March 2023 09: 09
              "they expected bloodshed from him, but he ate a chizhik"
              1. +11
                14 March 2023 10: 58
                And when will Saltykov-Shchedrin cease to be relevant? Not expected.
      2. +13
        14 March 2023 13: 31
        I remember once, on an arbitrary day, I counted the number of comments left on the site in the "History" section and in other sections. Then it turned out that in the "History" - the most read and commented materials, but due to the number of materials in other sections, the total share of comments in the "History" is about 15%.
        1. +7
          14 March 2023 18: 07
          It depends on a lot of factors. I think if we take statistics for a week, the result will be around 10%, for a month - even less, especially now. By the way, I fully understand the editorial policy that keeps the materials of Shpakovsky and Ryzhov until the weekend, which annoys some comrades.
    3. +11
      14 March 2023 08: 46
      https://alternathistory.com
      You may be interested, there are authors from VO.
  3. +15
    14 March 2023 07: 08
    and it's just plain obscene.
    Here from this place in more detail. Please. No, I beg you. Thank you! In advance .. And for today's work too. Thank you!
    1. +15
      14 March 2023 07: 19
      Quote: not the one
      Here from this place in more detail

      Not so easy. There are 541 pages in the Maastricht Book of Hours alone. They are only hard to scroll through, but you also need to enlarge and consider. And it is not written anywhere where in what hour book "the most interesting".
  4. +15
    14 March 2023 08: 36
    It is interesting that such marginalities are very often found in ... books of hours and psalms, that is, books in which frivolity does not seem to be depicted.
    Why be surprised? Since the middle of the 8th century, the process of deradicalization of the moral and ethical foundations of medieval society has begun. Simply put, its secular component (and even the first estate) got sick of living according to the canons invented 9-XNUMX centuries ago.
    1. +15
      14 March 2023 08: 52
      Since the middle of the XNUMXth century, the process of deradicalization of the moral and ethical foundations of medieval society has begun.
      - Well, for the thoughtfulness! hi
      1. +5
        14 March 2023 18: 29
        - Well, for the thoughtfulness!
        I can, contact me!)))
    2. +10
      14 March 2023 09: 01
      But the monkeys are good. Periodically at the forum, "City Doomed" is remembered.
      1. +10
        14 March 2023 12: 14
        Ага.
        How they scratched, looked for each other, stole cucumbers, molested frightened passers-by with a demand for alms, engaged in obscene things in front of a stunned public .... Then each of these individuals was assigned to each of this public with a demand to put a collar on it.
        And then came Fritz Geiger...
        The monkeys were herded into a heap and burned. And at the same time and turned up a citizen. Despite his cries that he is human.
        Conclusion: Citizens, do not tuck into Geiger!
        1. +4
          14 March 2023 12: 39
          It is dangerous to approach alien beings.
          1. +7
            14 March 2023 12: 51
            There was a terrarium in which everyone was.
            All - one or two copies.
            And all - with deviations. As a result, the correct protagonist's behavior began to deviate.
            The magazine "Crocodile" was missing there.
        2. +7
          14 March 2023 16: 02
          And then came Fritz Geiger...

          Acceptance is not sweet,
          But the mind is not lame;
          Such a set order
          At least roll the ball!
          laughing

          Citizens, don't turn to Geiger!


          Luda, hello! love
          1. +8
            14 March 2023 16: 59
            Hi Kostya! hi )))
            Occasionally I make raids on the site, look through articles in different sections - oh, Lord Jesus!
            Life is blessed only in history.
            People say that in the mentioned period, the LBGT tactics were practiced - try, win, when the techniques are ancient, honed in naive simpletons.
            1. +6
              14 March 2023 18: 28
              Life is blessed only in history.


      2. +5
        14 March 2023 18: 47
        But the monkeys are good.
        I don't know why, but primates have always made me feel dislike. Either I read Arabic fairy tales as a child, or a childhood nightmare is to blame ...
        Returning to the Strugatskys: why did Shewhart climb into the Zone for the Golden Ball?
        1. +5
          14 March 2023 19: 38
          First, for selfish reasons. explicit. Well, let's say, make your daughter normal. Is this not happiness? In confirmation of this version - the death in the "master key" anomaly, coldly planned by Redrick, in order to clear the way to the Golden Ball. But doubts had already been sown. It is impossible to be happy among the unfortunate. The common misfortune reduces the happiness of one to zero. And when for everyone, then he will be happy, but no longer reduced to zero.
          But this is also a selfish motive. Implicit. The ball did not respond in the works of writers developing this theme of the Strugatskys.
          1. +3
            14 March 2023 19: 53
            The ball did not respond in the works of writers developing this theme of the Strugatskys.
            Oh, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, have you read The Time of Students?!
            1. +3
              14 March 2023 20: 07
              Have you read Student Time?!

              No, Anton, I read social fiction about the stalkers of the Pripyat Zone, and there were books about the contacts of our stalkers with Shewhart. Since he was still unhappy, I made a certain conclusion about the Golden Ball.
              So, "Time of the disciples"?
              Thanks for the info. I'm looking for this book now.
              1. +4
                14 March 2023 20: 21
                Oh my God! Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna, what kind of "porridge" is in your head! You forgive me, please!
                1. +4
                  14 March 2023 20: 32
                  You forgive me, please!

                  Yes, I forgive you, I forgive you!
                  Issue I found. Begins with Lukyanenko, continuation of "Monday".
                  I will read it when I can.
                  And... Don't be arrogant, Anton.
                  You are not the source of ultimate truth. Because there are none in nature.
                  I tend to forgive people wassat )))
        2. +5
          14 March 2023 19: 51
          why Shewhart climbed into the Zone for the Golden Ball?


          Because he was the favorite nephew of Corvette Captain Otto Shewhart, who once sank the aircraft carrier Corejays and not only him. wink

          1. +4
            14 March 2023 20: 09
            he was the favorite nephew of Corvette Captain Otto Shewhart

            Kostya, are you kidding me? wassat )))
            1. +4
              14 March 2023 20: 55
              Kostya, are you kidding me?


              The commander of the submarine "U-29" Otto Shewhart is quite a real person, but no one knows for sure whether he was the uncle of the stalker Redrick Shewhart, some people believe that he was, others doubt it.
              At least the Strugatskys don't have coincidences, they're not the right people. smile
        3. +4
          15 March 2023 08: 06
          And the "Flying Monkeys" are also not very positive characters.

          Probably, I feel sympathy for most living beings.

          Even hyenas and jackals are interesting.
  5. +10
    14 March 2023 08: 40
    In general, if we take a closer look at the sacred texts of medieval manuscripts, we will see something mundane, funny, and even simply obscene.

    Actually, this issue has been well studied in historiography and a number of famous works are devoted to it, the first of them is M. Bakhtin's "The Creativity of Francois Rabelais and the Folk Culture of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.", In which he outlined his concept of carnival .:
    In the theory of M. Bakhtin, the essence of carnival comes down to “inversion of binary oppositions”: the jester is declared the king, the profanity and blasphemer is declared the bishop, the top becomes the bottom, the head becomes the backside and genitals (material and bodily bottom, in Bakhtin’s terminology).

    The main idea in the concept of carnival by M. Bakhtin is the categorical opposition of carnival to an official holiday and the entire system of power in general, both state, secular, and church. Moreover, this opposition is given a value load: everything official is assessed as frozen, outdated, obsolete, bearing untruth and violence; and everything carnival is something new, alive and free.

    The second most famous work is Lucien Febvre "The problem of unbelief in the XNUMXth century: the religion of Rabelais" hi
    1. +14
      14 March 2023 09: 05
      Who believes in Mohammed, who - in Allah, who - in Jesus,
      Who does not believe in anything - even to hell to spite everyone ...
      The Indians came up with a good religion -
      That we, having given ends, do not die for good.

      Your soul was striving upward -
      Born again with a dream
      But if you lived like a pig -
      You will remain a pig.
      The question of Faith (not to be confused with a female name) has always been deeply individual ... About myself I can say that I am glad that my ancestors believed in Christ, and not in others there and different ...
    2. +8
      14 March 2023 14: 47
      I admit that duality is everywhere: King Lear and the Jester, Heinrich and Shiko, Ivan the Terrible and, again, the jester.

      And Chukovsky “From two to five”: the first jokes of a child are to call mom dad and vice versa.
      1. +8
        14 March 2023 15: 55
        call mom dad and vice versa.

        Alas, sometimes "the mouth of a child speaks the truth" sad


        Good day, Sergey! smile
        1. +5
          14 March 2023 19: 25
          Good evening, Constantine!

          Interesting enough - what seems funny to us.
          "The Taming of the Shrew" comes to mind.
          1. +5
            14 March 2023 20: 59
            So all because of Celentano, one of his dances is worth it! laughing
            1. +2
              15 March 2023 08: 37
              Celentano is amazing. Especially at first. And I saw this movie in the cinema. So I distinguish from others with him.
  6. +8
    14 March 2023 09: 38
    It is believed that the monkey was chosen as a kind of mirror reflecting the actions of people, from peasants to the highest clergy.

    Or maybe marginalia - what is today called a caricature?

    A caricature is a drawing or a sculptural work aimed at ridiculing someone or some act, social event, social system, etc. To draw attention to a famous person, they increase his physical shortcomings and features in the drawing, which constitutes the actual cartoon ( charge), the first degree of the comic, while humor in K. represents the second, and satire the third and highest degree, the most meaningful comic work.
  7. +10
    14 March 2023 11: 13
    Good day everyone! )))
    Let me give you my conspiracy theories.
    The time described is a dual epoch. The desire to strengthen absolute monarchical power coexisted with the growth of bourgeois tendencies, in turn, also, albeit not yet fully consciously, but already realizing their desire to obtain absolute political power.
    I believe that the struggle between the monarchists and the bourgeois gradually grew.
    Marginal and especially drolerie in clerical literature is a reflection of this struggle, one of the means. Indeed, the church, which anoints the monarch to the kingdom in the name of God, chivalry is the ideological pillar of the monarchy. Marginalia with droleri - undermining this support.
    1. +6
      14 March 2023 11: 20
      In general, the opinion is not painfully conspiracy theological, but there is a nuance.
    2. +4
      14 March 2023 12: 39
      Quote: depressant
      Marginalia with droleri - undermining this support.

      From me ++++++++++++++++ and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3. +5
      14 March 2023 13: 27
      The time described is a dual epoch. The desire to strengthen the absolute monarchical power

      What kind of strengthening of absolute monarchical power can we talk about in the XIII century? Even in France, which was the leader among European states in terms of political and administrative centralization, one can speak of some germs of absolutism no earlier than the end of the XNUMXth century.
      a church that anoints a monarch as king in the name of God

      The sacralization of royal power is a product of the pre-Axial civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt.
      1. Fat
        +5
        14 March 2023 14: 26
        Quote: sergej_84
        What kind of strengthening of absolute monarchical power can we talk about in the XIII century?

        hi The concept of absolute monarchy as a form of organization of power dates back to Roman law. The formula of a lawyer of the XNUMXnd century AD is known. e. Ulpiana: lat. princeps legibus solutus est ("The sovereign is not bound by laws")
        Yes, in the 15-17 centuries, the concept of the state in the rational sense was formed and developed. In addition to rationalistic theories, an important role in the ideology of absolutism was played by the idea of ​​the divine origin of the institution of state power. This idea fit into the way of thinking characteristic of the era: the human will is limited by the limits of the order established by God.
        And, perhaps, all this "case of obscene marginalia in holy texts" is really connected with the struggle of the bourgeoisie and feudal lords for power and influence, as part of the formation of a new powerful layer of society - the bureaucracy ... smile
        1. +8
          14 March 2023 15: 33
          And, perhaps, all this "case of obscene marginalia in holy texts" is really connected with the struggle of the bourgeoisie and feudal lords for power and influence, as part of the formation of a new powerful layer of society - the bureaucracy ...

          I envy the depth of your analysis with white envy. I would be in such a marginal



          I could have imagined any content, but the fact that this is a symbol of the struggle of the bourgeoisie against the feudal lords ...
          1. Fat
            +4
            14 March 2023 16: 13
            But it does not bother that the "pre-established" marginalia of such a plan are not present at all in printed publications (and hour books in particular).
            So, no analysis, everything, as they say, on the surface ... floats.
            1. +4
              14 March 2023 19: 11
              Borisych, don't push it! Everyone knows that our friendly collaborative company will make any newcomer a nightmare. Do we need this anti-advertising?
            2. +6
              14 March 2023 21: 18
              But it does not bother that the "pre-established" marginalia of such a plan are not present at all in printed publications (and hour books in particular).

              Doesn't bother. The appearance of printing made it possible for "marginals of such a plan" to create entire books, and not modestly huddle in the margins of manuscripts.


              The dawn of typography. "De omnibus veneris schematibus".
              1. +5
                14 March 2023 22: 12
                And what is the promiscuity on the right engraving? wassat
                1. +4
                  14 March 2023 22: 25
                  And what is the promiscuity on the right engraving?

                  That is? In my opinion, the content of the engraving is extremely clear. As well as all the other fifteen engravings of this book, as well as the sonnets accompanying the engravings.
                  Do you also have doubts about the content of the drawings in the "Kama Sutra"?
                  1. +4
                    14 March 2023 23: 46
                    [/quote] That is? [/quote]
                    Copied, minimally enlarged and tried to figure it out. Did not work out. The number of arms and legs, their relative position causes some bewilderment.
                    There are no questions about the Kama Sutra.
                    And you, by chance, do not specialize in such literature?
                    1. +5
                      15 March 2023 00: 24
                      The number of arms and legs, their relative position causes some bewilderment.

                      And the number of limbs does not contain any anomalies, and the process is beyond doubt.
                      And you, by chance, do not specialize in such literature?

                      What do you understand by "similar literature" - books of the XNUMXth century? Or are you interested in the content?
                      1. +2
                        15 March 2023 01: 02
                        That's exactly what I was asking: either -- or? Yes
                      2. +1
                        15 March 2023 01: 44
                        No, I don't specialize. Not a literary critic.
              2. Fat
                +3
                14 March 2023 22: 17
                It is difficult to call the dawn of printing in 1524, when Marcantonio Raimondi published these engravings - copies from the frescoes of Giulio Romano from the Palazzo del Te in Mantua. . request Raimondi was arrested for the publication, little of this publication has survived (the frescoes were also destroyed, but Romano was not imprisoned for "hard erotica" - it was for the frequent use of Federico II Gonzaga smile)
                The famous poet Pietro Aretino visited Romano while working on the frescoes in the palace, and composed a sonnet for each love position. He also helped Raimondi get out of prison. An edition of De omnibus veneris schematibus with verses by Aretino (Poses of Aretino) appeared in 1527... It should be noted that simultaneous printing from an etching board (low printing) and printing a text (high) is technically impossible. This problem was solved by the artist and poet W. Blake only in 1788.
                By the way, the most common reprint of 1798. Edition printed in Paris under the title "L'Arétin d'Augustin Carrache, ou recueil de postures érotiques, d'après les gravures à l'eau-forte par cet artiste célèbre".
                Thus - the conclusion: These are not marginalia - this is a full-fledged European illustrated "Kama Sutra" (although it is connected with this treatise only by chance) drinks
                PS It is very interesting from which reissue the photo that you showed was taken.
                With respect.
                1. +4
                  14 March 2023 22: 45
                  Let it not dawn, let it be early morning. In the photo - a pirated copy of the XVI century.
                  Thus - the conclusion: These are not marginals - this is a full-fledged European illustrated "Kama Sutra"

                  I kind of wrote the same thing in my comment.
                  1. Fat
                    +5
                    14 March 2023 23: 07
                    Quote: sergej_84
                    I kind of wrote the same thing in my comment.

                    So I misunderstood this.
                    Until I get used to your style of presenting "info" - I'll be more attentive smile
          2. +6
            14 March 2023 17: 00
            I could guess any content


            I wonder what you think about this image. smile

            1. +6
              14 March 2023 19: 26
              “And where did you, doctor, get such pictures” (c).
            2. +7
              14 March 2023 20: 02
              I wonder what you think about this picture

              I will say that the artist who created this drawing had a peculiar view of the world around him. As times drawing this glance and reflects. Perhaps it was one of the first surrealists. They have their own vision of reality.
              This is how, for example, a modern photographer - Joel-Peter Witkin sees a portrait of Anna Akhmatova.


              Doesn't it look like a medieval marginalia?
              1. +5
                14 March 2023 21: 11
                Doesn't it look like a medieval marginalia?


                I agree. smile I wonder what Akhmatova would say when she saw this product of photography. belay
                I hope the frying pans have been prudently removed from sight in advance. laughing
                1. +6
                  14 March 2023 21: 27
                  I wonder what Akhmatova would say when she saw this product of photography

                  Two artists will always understand each other.
                  1. +4
                    14 March 2023 22: 08
                    Calling yourself an artist and being one are not the same thing.

                    I'm not talking about Akhmatova.
    4. +7
      14 March 2023 13: 50
      Quote: depressant
      your conspiracy opinion

      The opinion is fully sustained in the spirit of Marxism. smile
      I have two questions in this regard.
      First: can the appearance of jokes about Vasily Ivanovich and Petka be considered a harbinger of the inevitable death of the Soviet Union?
      Humor in the High Middle Ages. What does anyone know about this? Does anyone know the jokes, anecdotes that people laughed at in the XNUMXth century? It would be interesting to compare these jokes with the existing marginalities - I suspect that they can be very closely related.
      And one more question.
      What do you think, colleagues, is Boccaccio's work funny? I mean, were his contemporaries laughing at his novels? For me, it wasn't funny at all.
      1. +6
        14 March 2023 14: 00
        Does anyone know the jokes, anecdotes that people laughed at in the XNUMXth century.

        Anecdotes of the 40th century must be looked for, and in the XNUMXth century we already have a collection of anecdotes by Gianfrancesco Poggio Bracciolini, called Facetiae. By the way, the author himself was still an entertainer. He had a wife XNUMX years younger and twenty children, fourteen of whom were illegitimate. So he clearly knew a lot about jokes on some topics.
        1. +6
          14 March 2023 14: 39
          That's interesting, if I told in the XV century. such an anecdote that it would be:
          a) Everyone laughed
          b) Everyone around laughed and beat me with a club
          c) No one laughed and everyone beat me with a club
          d) no one understood anything at all
          The joke itself.
          Jeanne d'Arc, Gilles de Rais and Poton de Centrale are crawling in reconnaissance. Joan is in front, followed by two knights. De Centray turns to Gilles de Ré and says:
          - Personally, I now have no doubt about the royal origin of our Olean Maiden. Look, sir de Re, what graceful aristocratic legs she has.
          He replies:
          - Personally, sir de Centray, I now doubt your origin. It seems to me that you are from the peasantry, for for an hour now I have been crawling behind you along a deep furrow.
          1. +6
            14 March 2023 14: 50
            That's interesting, if I told in the XV century. such an anecdote

            Most likely, it would be rated quite normally.
            For confirmation - an anecdote from the mentioned collection Facetiae.
            A young Florentine gives birth. The midwife, with a candle in her hand, is waiting for the baby to appear from the appropriate place. "Look the other way too, just in case," the girl says to the midwife, "my husband used to walk this way sometimes."
            1. +7
              14 March 2023 15: 20
              Found Poggio, read a little. In my opinion, it is very similar to Boccaccio in the manner of presentation, perhaps a little more concise, and the topics are in many ways similar. If Poggio was considered funny in his time, then Boccaccio should also be funny for his contemporaries.
              However, if we return to the marginals, then it is difficult for me personally to draw direct parallels between the drawings and the plots of well-known jokes. I believe that in order to see these parallels (or to be convinced of their absence), you need to be exactly the authentic bearer of a certain culture, that is, to know all the symbols, to deeply and accurately understand their meaning. But this is a real deep scientific work. So I put my hands up and surrender smile
              1. +7
                14 March 2023 15: 48
                Hi Michael!
                I venture to intervene in the conversation of wise men. smile
                - Personally, sir de Centray, I now doubt your origin. It seems to me that you are from the peasantry, for for an hour now I have been crawling behind you along a deep furrow.

                It is difficult for me personally to draw direct parallels between the drawings and plots of well-known jokes.

                1. +6
                  14 March 2023 20: 20
                  Hello, Uncle Kostya. You already decide whether we are gopniks or "wise men", otherwise it will be inconvenient in front of descendants: what to write on the gravestone? laughing
                  1. +5
                    14 March 2023 21: 12
                    It has already been: "Grabyhobbit is one, but there are many gnomes."
                  2. +5
                    14 March 2023 21: 16
                    You decide whether we are gopniks or "wise men"

                    I offer either "much-wise gopniks" or "mnogopnik men"! laughing Which is better? wink
                  3. +5
                    14 March 2023 21: 18
                    You decide whether we are gopniks or "wise men"


                    Why, we already know everything about ourselves, so why do we need someone's judgments. smile drinks

                    I am what I am, and would be the same if the most chaste star twinkled over my cradle ...
                    1. +3
                      14 March 2023 23: 55
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      we already know everything about ourselves

                      Well I say: before descendants uncomfortable. We won’t care anyway, but it’s a pity for the youth ... smile
                      1. +3
                        15 March 2023 01: 07
                        Yes, of the descendants, I only care about the opinion of my children about me. Everyone else can think whatever they want about me, even now I don’t give a damn, with rare exceptions, and only then at all. wink
          2. +8
            14 March 2023 15: 00
            - Personally, I now have no doubt about the royal origin of our Olean Maiden.

            They would burn to hell for the great blasphemy against the royal court, and they would also dance around at the same time. laughing At best, they would give a belt! fellow
            Avvakum somehow also with us ... not a joke, but he told his dream ... wink Imagine, Michael - no one appreciated! request
            1. +6
              14 March 2023 15: 27
              I thought that among the French nobility such an anecdote would certainly not have aroused enthusiasm. But among the English archers - perhaps, probably. Although this would definitely have to explain the meaning. And the joke, to be clear, should have sounded like this:
              Jeanne d'Arc, Gilles de Rais and Poton de Centrale are crawling in reconnaissance. Joan is in front, followed by two knights. De Sentray looked at Jeanne for a long time and seeing her from such an unusual angle became excited so that his reproductive organ came to readiness. Exhausted by desire, he turned to Gilles de Ré and said:

              Further in the text.
              1. +4
                14 March 2023 16: 30
                I just thought that among the French nobility such an anecdote would definitely not have aroused enthusiasm
                Sentrail's "sanitary quality", especially in company with d'Vignol, raises very serious doubts...
                1. +5
                  14 March 2023 20: 23
                  That's what we're talking about - I would give a heavy iron one on the head and after half an hour I already forgot about it.
              2. +5
                14 March 2023 19: 54
                Further in the text.

                Michael, let me digress from the topic a little, because I remembered one remarkable date. hi
                Male colleagues! Taking this opportunity, I want to congratulate one wonderful girl on her birthday. Beautiful, talented in everything, very hardworking, and even sings! good For how many years she has been perfectly brightening up our harsh lonely male leisure, and we sincerely admire her ... love

                So, congratulations, my friends! Sasha Gray is 35 today! drinks




                Fellow admins! It was a joke! drinks
                1. +4
                  14 March 2023 20: 29
                  What kind of jokes can there be? Although, yes, it is known which ones ... Do they say the truth that Sasha Gray is Shurochka Azarova? Is Gray just a pseudonym based on the color of her hussar uniform? smile
                  1. +5
                    14 March 2023 20: 43
                    Is Gray just a pseudonym based on the color of her hussar uniform?

                    The prototype of Shurochka Azarova served in the lancers... For which I must say thanks to Konstantin Palych, because it was he who founded the lancers in Russia! good Moreover, fairly appeared in their uniform! fellow

                    Here you are. Constantine behind-to the right of the royal brother Alexander.



                    Orest Adamovich Kiprensky - Equestrian portrait of Alexander I. 1820s. L. Paul after the original by Kiprensky. Hermitage

                    Which of the experts will say where Kiprensky comes from, and why such a surname? wink But the place is significant, Michael! drinks As well as the root of the artist's surname! hi
                    1. +3
                      14 March 2023 23: 57
                      I have only one chain arises - Kiprensky - fireweed - Koporye. I didn't look anywhere specifically. smile
                      1. +2
                        15 March 2023 00: 03
                        I have only one chain arises - Kiprensky - fireweed - Koporye.

                        Applause! good Perhaps this is the most famous native of the vicinity of the fortress. drinks
                2. +4
                  14 March 2023 21: 25
                  So, congratulations, my friends! Sasha Gray is 35 today!


                  Who is this!? belay
                  Although ... 35 years old and a girl ... impressive, but suggestive. wassat
                  1. +3
                    15 March 2023 00: 02
                    Although ... 35 years old and a girl ... impressive, but suggestive.

                    Don't take your eyes off... wink You know very well that you're not really a girl... tongue
                    On, here, to your karma, Kotyara, you are our beloved experienced. drinks Lately I've become interested in the little-known American hard rock of the late 80s... I like it, I listen to it in the car! good
                    Hard rock is alive! drinks Spouse hello! love

                    1. +3
                      15 March 2023 01: 10
                      Thank you! drinks Tomorrow I will say hello to Masha, she is already sleeping now. smile
      2. +10
        14 March 2023 14: 40
        What do you think, colleagues, is Boccaccio's work funny?

        That it was popular is beyond doubt. The mere fact that Savonarola "Decamenron" fired in his "Bonfire of the Vanities" and the church anathema speaks of this. And who, how they perceived, cried or laughed - this is the subject of a separate study, if any. Meanwhile, Boccaccio himself did not invent anything; he borrowed plots from earlier sources.
      3. Fat
        +6
        14 March 2023 15: 18
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        What do you think, colleagues, is Boccaccio's work funny? I mean, were his contemporaries laughing at his novels?

        hi Greetings, Michael. In order to somehow appreciate this, you need to review the Novels 7 and 8 days. Funny.
        It is a dubious pleasure to re-read jokes with a beard in almost 700 years just to "assess the freshness and sparkle of humor" for contemporaries smile
      4. +5
        14 March 2023 15: 56
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        is it possible to consider the appearance of jokes about Vasily Ivanovich and Petka

        Yes! There is an interesting study on this. Read.
      5. +4
        14 March 2023 19: 27
        The Decameron did not go at all. And Rabelais.

        I leafed through the Golden Ass as a teenager. Perhaps it was interesting.
    5. +4
      14 March 2023 19: 58
      Marginalia with drolery

      Reminds me of a Czech phrase "Yozhin with Bazhin" laughing
      1. +2
        14 March 2023 20: 02
        Reminds me of the Czech phrase "Jozhin with Bazhin"
        She is Polish.
        1. +5
          14 March 2023 20: 10
          She is Polish.


          From the fig? Written and performed by the Czechs, and, as far as I understand, in Czech! stop
          If you judge V.O. Shpakovsky, who lit up at 2.00 - do not believe it, anyway, the song is not Polish, but Czech. laughing

        2. +3
          14 March 2023 20: 46
          "Jožin z bažin" - Czech. Author - Zdenek Navratil. First performer - Ivan Mladek and "Banjo Band" The Polish band Kabaret pod Wyrwigroszem wrote a parody - "Donald marzy".
          1. +5
            14 March 2023 21: 17
            "Jožin z bažin" - Czech. Author - Zdenek Navratil. First performer - Ivan Mladek and "Banjo Band"

            That's it, and I'm talking about the same! Yes Thank you! drinks
            1. +3
              15 March 2023 01: 13
              That's it, and I'm talking about the same! yes Thank you!


              Op-pa... Do you recognize brother Kolya? laughing
  8. +5
    14 March 2023 11: 48
    What a wild imagination the scribes have! I remember what marginals we drew in textbooks! Especially got History and Foreign (there were a lot of pictures)
  9. +10
    14 March 2023 13: 23
    Interesting material on the topic

    I am very sorry that the site administration is not competent enough to determine whether a comment contains useful information, as a result of which I have to engage in verbiage.
    1. +5
      14 March 2023 17: 40
      Thanks Misha! hi
      The lecture is good. Marginalia - laughter for their own and only in handwritten books created by order. There were no marginalia in the printed editions.
      She paid special attention to the fact that in the margins next to the main illustration, which depicts some sacred plot, there is often a praying customer of the book and therefore, as it were, becoming part of the sacred plot. Which did not rule out the presence of any dragers right there, often parodying the main plot.
      It turns out that the image of the customer on the frescoes in churches in subsequent, and perhaps already at the same time, is a long tradition that reflects a person’s inner need for belonging to the spiritual - this is on the one hand, and on the other, the need to pin.
      And droleri, as a traditional accompaniment of sacred plots in private books, found their place in Bosch's work.
      1. +4
        15 March 2023 00: 27
        Yes to health, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. smile
        Quote: depressant
        and on the other - the need to pin

        It seems to me that humor, in the sense in which we understand it now, was not very characteristic of the people of the XNUMXth century. For them, it was funny when someone falls, hurts, but does not die and is not even maimed. Even the situation when a wife gives birth from a neighbor, and not from her husband, became ridiculous for the rest of the neighbors, probably only by the end of the XNUMXth century. in Italy, and for example, in Sweden, this humor became (conditionally) funny only towards the end of the reign of Charles XII.
        I would venture to suggest that such "wonderful" marginalia could be either carefully encrypted symbols, understandable only to a certain, rather narrow circle of people, or a tribute to another part of the other world, which for our ancestors was by no means otherworldly. Christian mythology, with its clear division into good and evil, is one thing. And real life, in which there is a place for brownies, and goblin, and mermaids, and, in general, any evil spirits (gnomes, elves, fairies, etc. - in the same deck), and in which you do not need to believe, because you clearly know that they really exist (one of them lives directly in your barn, and another one lives under the mill wheel) - this is completely different. The Church calls them evil spirits, demons - but I don't care. You and I know perfectly well that these "demons" lived here long before the arrival of the first priest and got along well with our ancestors, from whom we need to take an example, because they were stronger, wiser and lived better than us. Maybe, by the way, that's why it's better that they got along fine with these, like, "demons". Here they are, these demons, we will depict in a book. Just in case. In the neighborhood with angels and other cherubs. Suddenly come in handy. smile
        The church at that time had not yet encountered attempts to radically redistribute church incomes, to pinch off a piece from them, the more the better, in the face of mass heretical movements, therefore, it did not particularly rage on the subject of demons and other such nonsense such as witches and sorcerers. Well, the peasants bring an egg to the conditional Veles oak or Odin’s stone there, and God bless them, the main thing is that they don’t forget to bring what is supposed to be in the church. Complete idyll. smile
  10. +2
    14 March 2023 18: 10
    And this is where I thought...
    Anton correctly said - there are nuances.
    The idea of ​​a different interpretation of the droleri was prompted by a praying woman, depicted next to the scene of the adoration of the Magi, who ordered the manuscript. And droleri - right there, nearby!
    Why?!? Their presence seems to be blasphemy, because the text is scripture, prayers.
    And maybe that's why? Deliver, Lord, me and the space around me from sins and perversions, and droleri as a list of them. Like, droleri, go to hell! The sacred text will send straight.
    1. +1
      14 March 2023 18: 23
      Anton correctly said - there are nuances.
      It's not about trolley, Lyudmila Yakovlevna (by the way, in connection with this concept, questions arise about the etymology of the word "trolling"), you are generally thinking correctly, but you, unfortunately, have no understanding of the historical processes that took place then. As Mikhail rightly noted, everything is according to Marx.
  11. +6
    14 March 2023 18: 52
    Yes, probably, there were rich customers of handwritten sacred books who were interested in obscene drawings. So that it was not boring to read the text of prayers. Rather, look through a book with funny pictures. They were people with a derisive attitude towards religion, atheists of the time, about which I know little. How did you live then? They fought, plowed, put on armor, war, the economy, the contradictions caused by it, social tension, protests. And the ubiquitous savagery in the form of gloomy, as if specially implanted superstitions, witch-hunts in subsequent centuries, and the belief in their presence - always.
    The pressure of religion on the psyche - do we understand this? Do we feel what they felt? Terrible concept of sinfulness. Sin is everywhere, it's next to you, it's in you - it's unbearable!... Get rid of it.
    Some got rid of the image of sins next to prayers, others in the future got rid of the domination of the church.
    1. +4
      14 March 2023 19: 17
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, confess, did you write this especially for me? Well, for the sake of "joking" ...
      1. +3
        14 March 2023 21: 58
        No, Anton.
        I'm just trying to get used to the perception of the world by people crushed not just by some rules, laws, but also by the serious presence of religious mysticism and superstition as a continuation of childhood fears. Plus, the system of denunciation of "sinners" is another source of negativity. And somehow they lived.
        Apparently, the presence of a sufficient amount of sun and heat made it possible to cope.
        1. +3
          15 March 2023 00: 18
          but also a serious presence of religious mysticism and superstition as a continuation of children's fears

          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, is there life after death? Excuse me, I'm forty years old, and I suddenly decided to ask this question.
          What will happen next? Kingdom of heaven, or will consciousness simply cease, and it doesn't give a damn, for you are dead? Once - and all? And there is no conscience, no memory, no yourself, and you don’t know anything, because you don’t exist? hi
  12. +8
    14 March 2023 21: 12
    absolutely nothing to read

    hello friends hi
    For all lovers of historical literature
    Anthology of the historical novel in 28 volumes

    Format: FB2
    Quality: eBook
    Size: 476 MB

    link https://ove6cg8i2y-dot-kinozaltv.appspot.com/details.php?id=1962734
    If you want to download, but there are problems with registration - write in a personal message, I will throw off the torrent file itself for downloading this distribution
    Best regards
    Richard
    1. +3
      14 March 2023 22: 03
      Dima, good evening! )))
      You are late today, everyone is already putting on galoshes wassat )))
      And download books - where? On the phone?
      Where can I get a place...
      1. +5
        14 March 2023 23: 49
        And download books - where? On the phone?
        Where can I get a place...

        Buy a tablet - Chinese, they are inexpensive, you can cram a lot, and it's more convenient to read. smile
      2. +6
        15 March 2023 08: 18
        Where can I download books? On the phone? Where can I get a place...

        yes, anywhere - even on a phone, even on a PC, even on a tablet
        476 MB is all 28 volumes. Each volume contains approximately 10-15 books. The volume weighs approximately only 10-20 MB.
        20 MB is not a problem for the memory of any, even the most ancient phone. Choose any work and read to your health on whatever you want. What's the problem, Lyudmila Yakovlevna?