Jonestown: the city of "universal happiness" and the most mass suicide

61
Jonestown: the city of "universal happiness" and the most mass suicide
Jim Jones


In November 1978, a terrible news: in the small town of Johnstown, in Guyana, more than 900 members of the Peoples Temple sect committed suicide at the same time, including 276 children. How could this happen and what exactly prompted the sectarians to take such a desperate step?



Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple


The religious organization "Temple of the Peoples", which would later be called a sect, arose in 1955 in the US state of Indiana. Its founder was 24-year-old preacher Jim Jones. He preached the ideas of social and racial equality, promised any help to his parishioners.

In his organization, he accepted people of very different social status: they were former and current alcoholics, drug addicts, the homeless, as well as many who had problems in the family or were simply disappointed in the world around them. A third of the members of the organization were black, which was not typical for Indiana at the time, where racist views flourished.

Already in 1956, Jones purchased a small church building in Indianapolis, where he held meetings. They often practiced "miraculous healings" of supposedly sick people, which aroused unprecedented public interest. Once, Jones, who had a good acting talent, even played an attempt on himself, after which he allegedly “resurrected”.

In the 1960s, against the background of the Cold War, the fear of nuclear war was very common in American society. Jones skillfully took advantage of these sentiments. He told his parishioners that he allegedly had visions of a nuclear apocalypse, that entire cities would be subjected to nuclear attacks and completely destroyed. And, of course, only the elect will be saved, including members of the sect.

Over time, the sect grew. If in the early years there were only a few dozen people in it, then by the beginning of the 1970s, the “Temple of the Peoples” already numbered from three to five thousand people.

Sectarians traveled around the country, held performances in different cities, collected donations. Jones opened a canteen for the poor, which attracted new supporters. Also, the “Temple of the Peoples” opened a kindergarten, provided medical and legal services to receive benefits.


Jones' First Church in Indianapolis

Gradually the sect became more and more totalitarian. Jones demanded that members of the organization rewrite property on him, and also paid more attention to the sect than to their own families.

In 1965, after declaring that Indianapolis would be destroyed in a coming nuclear war, Jones announced the relocation of the Peoples Temple to California. A more likely reason for the move was the increased criticism of the sect from relatives of its members.

In California, Jones won the support of some local politicians. At any moment, he could bring at least several hundred of his people to a rally in their support. So, once he supported the election of the mayor of San Francisco, George Moscone, after which he received a high position in the municipality of the city.

By the mid-1970s, Jones was considered a highly respected person in California. Among his acquaintances was the state governor Jerry Brown, and once Jones even met with US First Lady Rosalynn Carter.

By this time, the scale of the activities of the "Temple of the Peoples" had also grown. The organization had nine nursing homes, six private schools for children. Numerous printed materials were also produced, the organization's monthly circulation reached 30 copies.

But along with the successes, new problems soon came. Relatives of members of the sect massively began to file lawsuits, stating that Jones was zombifying their relatives, defrauding them of money. In the press, publications criticizing the sect appear one after another, journalists claimed that people were kept in it by force, and cruel punishments followed for any offenses.

Unable to withstand so much criticism, Jones decides that a new move is needed, and this time outside the United States.

"City of dreams and universal happiness"


The place of relocation was chosen very unusual: Guyana, located on the northern coast of South America. There, in the middle of the jungle, the construction of a new settlement began on a rented plot of land. Jones named it after himself - Jonestown.
In 1977, Jones, along with over 900 other members of the Peoples Temple, moved to Jonestown. There they worked 11 hours a day, building new buildings and ennobling the area. Johnstown has its own kindergarten, nursery, club and sawmill.

Jones, in his speeches at the general meetings that took place every evening, repeatedly said that the new settlement would soon become "heaven on earth" and a place of "universal happiness." Here, Jones assured, they safely hid from all the evil that exists in the rest of the world.


Jonestown. Photo 1979

It is also known that Jones and his closest associates kept in touch with the Soviet consul in Guyana, Fyodor Timofeev. There is a version that Jones' goal was to move the entire sect to the USSR in order to avoid further persecution by the US authorities and relatives of sectarians.

Relatives sounded even more alarm. They even created their own organization, which they called Concerned Relatives, and called for an immediate full investigation into Jones's activities. Finally, their demands were heard by the authorities.

A serious investigation into the activities of the Peoples Temple was launched by Congressman Leo Ryan. He decided to check everything on the spot, and for this purpose, on November 17, 1978, he personally arrived in Jonestown along with several journalists.


Leo Ryan

Arriving at the place, they saw that, in general, the life of the settlers proceeded calmly. However, there was an incident: one of the settlers attacked Ryan, putting a knife to his throat. In addition, 16 settlers wanted to leave Jonestown and return home.

The next day, while returning to the airport, Ryan, the journalists accompanying him and expressing a desire to return to the United States, the settlers were attacked by Jonestown guards. Here is how Charles Krause, one of the surviving journalists, describes this moment:

"Hey, look! someone exclaimed, pointing into the distance. A truck and a tractor with a platform were driving across the runway. Meanwhile, three unknown people were approaching the planes. They looked aggressive...
But I wasn't too worried because the local police were here...
Bob Brown and Steve Sung aimed their cameras at three approaching men who pushed off several Guyanese... snatched a rifle from a dumbfounded Guyanese policeman...
And then the shooting started. There were screams. I ran around the tail of the plane, passed the NBC crew filming, and hid behind the wheel...
Someone fell on me and rolled down... I realized that I was wounded... Another body fell on me and rolled down... I lay helplessly... I was waiting for a shot in the back. The shooters did their job well, finishing off the wounded at close range ...
How I got past death, I will never understand... There was another plane on the runway that was supposed to deliver... "concerned relatives" and those who left the commune. After the start of the shooting, the plane tried to take off. But Larry Leighton opened fire in the cabin. He wounded Monica Bagby and Vernon Gosnay. Then the gun jammed and Parks was able to knock it out of Leighton's hands."

Layton is one of the settlers who wanted to return home. In all, five people were killed during this attack, including three journalists, one settler, and Leo Ryan.

mass suicide


That same evening, Jones held the last meeting of his sect. He said that now that the American congressman and journalists have died, they all have only one way out: to commit suicide. Interestingly, out of the entire crowd of more than 900 people, only one girl found the courage to object to him, saying that suicide was not an option, and it was better to try to contact the Soviet consul again in order to escape to the USSR. But Jones turned down the offer.

Several barrels were filled with grape juice, to which a mixture of potassium cyanide and diazepam was added. Each settler was given a plastic cup of poisoned juice in turn. First, the parents gave their children a drink, after which they drank themselves. It is assumed that some were forced to drink by force. Jones himself was later found shot through the head. A total of 918 people died in Jonestown, including 276 children.


At the site of the tragedy

There are still blank spots in the Jonestown mass suicide case. Subsequently, this gave rise to a number of conspiracy theories. One of them, for example, says that the Johnstown sectarians did not commit suicide, but were killed by the CIA. However, all serious researchers of those events reject this version.

The fact is that every meeting of the "Temple of the Peoples", including the last one, was recorded on tape, thanks to which we know what they were talking about. And Jones' last speech was entirely devoted to the coming act of suicide.

About 80 sectarians, who left the settlement the day before and did not get to the last meeting, eventually escaped and went home. The Temple of the Peoples sect itself was banned in the United States only in the following 1979.

Jonestown has become a ghost town. Because of its gloomy fame, no one else settled there, and in the mid-1980s, as a result of a fire, most of the settlement burned down. The remaining ruins remain uninhabited to this day.
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  1. +14
    6 March 2023 04: 07
    There is a version that Jones' goal was to move the entire sect to the USSR in order to avoid further persecution by the US authorities and relatives of sectarians.
    And this was the main reason for the massacre of members of the commune (if we discard the American government (and therefore through and through truthful and unbiased) version of suicide).

    The next day, while returning to the airport, Ryan, the journalists accompanying him and expressing a desire to return to the United States, the settlers were attacked by Jonestown guards.
    Yes, the American government has never stooped to staging and acting under someone else's guise, just as it did not stoop this time.
    The fact is that every meeting of the "Temple of the Peoples", including the last one, was recorded on tape, thanks to which we know what they were talking about. And Jones' last speech was entirely devoted to the coming act of suicide.
    It was technically impossible to record mock meetings at that time, and also impossible for the American government for moral and ethical reasons, right, author?
  2. +10
    6 March 2023 04: 39
    Horror what that, in a head does not keep within! This is how brainwashed people are!!
  3. +7
    6 March 2023 05: 16
    How could one person zombify 900 people before committing suicide? what
    Is he a hypnotist?
    We should be interested in his brainwashing technology that disables the instinct of self-preservation of people ... the leaders of such sects are very dangerous for our society ... they must be crushed without any regret in order to avoid the deaths of our citizens.
    1. +11
      6 March 2023 15: 56
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      How could one person zombify 900 people before committing suicide?

      I understand how. I experienced it on my own skin, you might say. True, only the edge, but he felt and appreciated the mechanism of influence.
      In the year 92-93, my friend and I met a girl in the metro - pretty, sociable, gave a phone number, phoned, she invited us to "a party" in the Gorky Palace of Culture. This is a very decent recreation center in St. Petersburg with a large stage and hall. In those years, anyone could rent all these halls, there would be money. And now we meet with her at the entrance to the Palace of Culture, she takes us to the main hall, and he is packed. There are ten people on the stage in white clothes like Indian saris or whatever they are called, one of them is broadcasting something. Our friend escorts us right in front of the stage, there are people standing there, and people are different - and the same young gouges as we and adults, thirty or forty years old and some grandmothers of deep retirement age ...
      I already figured out where I was, my friend is also pushing me in the side, like, come on, let's get out of here. And it became interesting to me, and besides, I liked the girl, I wanted to get her out of there. And she went to the very center under the stage, well, we stood next to each other. She only whispered, they say, listen carefully, do what the person says and repeat after the rest.
      And I will say that this "collective unconscious" really works. Brains are switched off. This one was carrying some kind of blizzard from the stage, I don’t even remember which one, the meaning was not caught, but obviously something rhythmic and repetitive and the people also repeated it in unison, many already, apparently, learned the text, as they say, and our girlfriend too I began to repeat something, then a call from the stage: "Close your eyes" and I feel how they really close. I blinked - everyone around with their eyes closed and their hands raised up and everyone was mumbling something like "when we are united, we are happy", something about light and darkness, I was really scared. It’s scary, first of all, because I already hear these words in my brain, my hands stretch up on their own, and my eyes close, and also because you really begin to believe that if you obey these desires of yours, then you will be very good , cozy and comfortable. In short, we got out of there, and the girl who brought us there looked at me with such fury when I wanted to take her away too, that I thought that they would kill us here now. Until they jumped out of this recreation center into the street, apart from this fear that they would kill me now, that they were about to be chased and torn to shreds, I had nothing in my head. And then in the subway for another half an hour, my legs were shaking.
      Then they found out that it was the church of Maria Devi Khristos, in my opinion, or something like that was called. In any case, it was her posters that were posted everywhere, like, come to us.
      In short, when a lot of people gather in unison, rhythmic sounds, simple and obviously good messages, such as love, brotherhood, trust, happiness, all this is combined into a certain system of influencing the psyche through rhythm, intonation, some well-developed joint actions, when you you find yourself inside it and you feel your neighbor's breath, you hear his voice - it's impressive.
      I do not even undertake to condemn the people who fall into these sects. These can be perfectly normal healthy people, just in human psychology, especially in the collective, in the psychology of the crowd, there are apparently some open places that you can put pressure on and all the defense mechanisms will fall down like a house of cards. And under such a high, you can do anything, that's for sure. Mine, in any case, crumbled immediately. He was saved only by fear. I think it's lucky.
      1. +7
        7 March 2023 03: 51
        I was at the same meeting you described, for the sake of interest I went ... to be honest, I was not impressed and did not hurt at all.
        It was boring ... in the eyes of those present I saw emptiness and lost all interest in such parties ... money is made there by criminal personalities and it is better for a normal person not to meddle there. hi
        1. +4
          7 March 2023 18: 34
          It's just that you, Alexei, have fallen into that small percentage of people on whom neither hypnosis nor the crowd has any effect, and you are able to keep a cool head even in the epicenter of a nuclear explosion. Most, alas, the psyche is less stable. At the institute, in the psychology classes, we had several seminars on the psychology of the crowd. We did not really believe in the horrors written in the books of smart people. We, Belarusians, are so stable, right where you are with good! And then a few years later, in 1999, a tragedy occurred in Minsk on the Nemiga. The same aggressively charged crowd rushed to the underground passage with the metro station. 53 people died. It's a pity for people, especially young girls (44 girls!), but ... anything can happen in a crowd, even something that can never happen.
          1. +1
            7 March 2023 20: 55
            The phrase stuck:
            keep a cool head even in the midst of a nuclear explosion

            Cool. However, if there is a "black hole" in place of the head (there are such objects in the universe, if anything), then it is possible to cool a nuclear (and thermonuclear) explosion with one glance lol
  4. +13
    6 March 2023 05: 16
    They are not the first. The Old Believers in Rus' also followed the road of fanatics, arranging mass self-immolations - the so-called "gary" in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries.
    And passing it off as a forced protest of the Old Believers persecuted for their faith, provoked by the authorities themselves, who began systematic persecution of schismatics in 1685.

    Self-immolation of Old Believers at the end of the XNUMXth century. Painting by G. Myasoedov.
    1. +14
      6 March 2023 06: 08
      Good morning everyone!
      In 2017, he was at a hunting base in Komi on the Obdyra River.
      There, on the territory of the former zone in 2014, 14 people set themselves on fire. Believers. The reasons were different, but the main dissatisfaction with the policy pursued by Cyril in the Russian Orthodox Church.
      1. 0
        10 March 2023 08: 17
        What a nightmare! But these are also sectarians - non-commemorators. A believer would never do such a thing by definition. And here there is an inadequacy that gradually formed in the depths of the sect. "By their fruits you will know them"
    2. +11
      6 March 2023 06: 56
      With the self-immolation of the Old Believers, a lot is unclear.

      And this is one of those questions that I would like to thoroughly understand. But it's extremely difficult.
      1. +12
        6 March 2023 07: 05
        Yes, this is true, but somehow none of the authors in our country takes up this topic, and it is understandable - everything is very complicated and contradictory.
        Good morning, Sergey! smile
        1. +10
          6 March 2023 07: 27
          Good morning, Constantine!

          Because paternal from Guslits. And this is quite an Old Believer place, then I am keenly interested.

          Although, of course, in passing.
          But the character of many Old Believers is unbending.
          However, it is more the older generation caught.

          But he was neither in Kerzhents nor in Novozybkov. Although the same Novozybkov is not so difficult to go.
          1. +10
            6 March 2023 07: 46
            Well, I’m not at all strong in matters of faith, I have never been interested, and I won’t be anymore. winked
            1. +9
              6 March 2023 07: 54
              To be honest, I haven’t read it, but I believe the university philosopher who referred to Berdyaev. The fact that one of the three prerequisites for the October Revolution was the Great Schism.
              1. +13
                6 March 2023 10: 45
                keenly interested
                So they would take it, Sergey. It would be really interesting to read about this case here ..
                1. +8
                  6 March 2023 15: 34
                  Not in the next two years.

                  And the fact that there is no base complicates it. But I keep it in the back of my mind.
              2. +2
                7 March 2023 14: 24
                Not long ago, a wonderful person died, a historian, a connoisseur of Russian antiquity, fairy tales, legends, a fan of the true faith - the Old Believers Alexander Pyzhikov. Spitsin also does not have an academic view of the Old Believers, he always refers to Pyzhikov, considering him an expert in this matter. Novozybkov,
                Starodub, Voronok, Luzhki, Vetka were the outskirts of the Russian kingdom, where the so-called schismatics fled. And after several pogroms of the authorities, they began to leave to the north and east to deserted places where they could hide. In Vilnius, even now there is a functioning Old Believer church, only civilization had a strong influence on the younger generation of parishioners, perhaps like everywhere else, because their faith is formal.
    3. +13
      6 March 2023 08: 10
      Good morning Kostya
      The Old Believers in Rus' also went along the road of fanatics, arranging mass self-immolations - the so-called "gary"

      Eka you dumped everything in one heap. Mass "burning" in the Old Believers is a myth, inflated thanks to the court "red count" A. Tolstoy. Old Believers are a rather unusual environment. Depending on the attitude of the Old Believers to the priesthood, it is customary to divide them into two groups - priests and non-priests.
      0,001% are bespriests (schismatics) - Old Believers, whose followers do not have clergy, but are guided by elders (old women). So they practiced gari.
      The vast majority of the Old Believers are priests (beglopopovtsy) - adherents of the Russian Orthodox Old Believer Church. Among them, burning in the XVII century. almost never met.
      (references: Pulkin M.V. "Self-immolation of Old Believers", Lukyanov S.A. On the issue of mass suicides of Old Believers in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries // Bulletin of the Moscow University of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Makariy (Bulgakov) History of the Russian schism, known as the Old Believers)

      By the way, almost a third of the Russian Cossacks of the Republic of Ingushetia were Old Believers.
      1. +5
        6 March 2023 08: 22
        Hi Dima!
        I’m saying that I’m not special, I just remembered, that’s all, and who’s right there, who’s wrong, it’s not for me to figure it out. request
        1. +9
          6 March 2023 11: 32
          So I'm not P.I. Melnikov-Pechersky.
          That's who was the expert in this matter. He wrote not only fiction books, but also historical works. According to the same Old Believers and not only. His works “Armenian-Gregorian Communities”, “About the Mordovians” and “Princess Tarakanova and Princess Vladimirskaya” are still relevant in the historical world.
          By the way, Melnikov had the rank of a real state councilor (corresponded to the ranks of major general in the army and rear admiral in the navy, as well as to the court rank of chamberlain. He was titled "Your Excellency".)
      2. +5
        6 March 2023 09: 27
        And the problem began that the Old Believers were left without bishops. Pavel Kolomensky was killed.

        Only after a while did the Belokrinitsky sense appear, when the bishop switched to the Old Believers.

        By the way, the books of Melnikov-Pechersky really liked their time.
  5. +9
    6 March 2023 05: 28
    Jonestown: the city of "universal happiness" and the most mass suicide
    . Small towns of "happiness", yes, a tragedy ... although, there is a whole state, "solid happiness", next to it ... how to be with this?
    1. +1
      6 March 2023 19: 33
      Quote: rocket757
      . although, there is a whole state, "solid happiness", next to it ... how to be with this?

      So many, very unhappy in this neighboring town of happiness. afraid and silent..
  6. +12
    6 March 2023 05: 30
    Jones demanded that members of the organization transfer property to him
    If you want to get rich, you need to start your own religion.
    1. +10
      6 March 2023 10: 42
      That's for sure! Take at least theirs, at least our different Vissarions - all very non-poor people, to put it mildly ..
  7. +10
    6 March 2023 06: 03
    Yes, they are all smeared with one world, religion is politics and business! Talk to Baptists and the like! Well, our Orthodox commissars are no better!
    1. +4
      6 March 2023 19: 41
      Quote: lithium17
      Yes, they are all smeared with one world, religion is politics and business! Talk to Baptists and the like! Well our Orthodox commissars are no better!
      I have two friends, Orthodox priests. One from urgent service. I have known the second one for ten years. Very intelligent and educated people. It is interesting to communicate with them. Not greedy and without Baptist and Protestant obsession, self-confidence. Those who do not teach, do not call, come to us in our sect. Only we pray correctly, we believe correctly. No . If you ask, they will answer, wisely, cleverly, they will give an example from life or the Bible. They live modestly. Sober. Big families. I'm not exactly a believer, but I'm not a militant atheist either. The past Komsomol and communist upbringing keeps in the middle. ..
  8. +13
    6 March 2023 06: 22
    Yes, they regularly have problems with sectarians there.
    February 28 - April 19, 1993. Siege of "Mount Carmel" (Siege in Waco, Tragedy in Waco, Events in Waco; English Waco Siege) - the siege of a ranch owned by members of the religious sect "Branch David" 14 km from the city of Waco in Texas by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the US National Guard , which lasted from February 28 to April 19, 1993. During the events, 82 members of the sect[1] died, including more than 20 children, as well as 4 agents of the ATF Bureau.


  9. +10
    6 March 2023 08: 23
    Religion... What religion? The desire of ordinary people to believe in good for themselves and loved ones. And the willingness to indulge this desire in all available ways.
    If they had no work there, then naturally Jones was considered to be God.
    And what is this false God, since he distributed fish, and not fishing rods, then who thought about this? We followed Jones to where Bogishche spoke. There they were still alive, fed, saved from the weather, charged with the word Jones ...
    If, Jones forbid, they could cross over to the USSR, how many half-normal people would still be grabbed.
    So, thank you for how things unfolded!
  10. +14
    6 March 2023 09: 19
    Jones himself was later found shot through the head.
    Jones and his colleague - Ann Moore - were found shot to death. And it wasn't suicide. They explained that the leader was afraid to try his potion and he was "helped". Another interesting fact is that there were no autopsies of corpses.
    1. -1
      9 March 2023 11: 35
      IMHO the move of this sect to the USSR would be such a bad precedent that it would be beneficial for all parties to cut out the sectarians. I met the opinion that they filed a petition for Soviet citizenship with the USSR embassy.
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      autopsies were not performed

      Guyana, summer, heat. There was no autopsy, it would be faster to bury
  11. +8
    6 March 2023 09: 33
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    How could one person zombify 900 people before committing suicide?


    Easily. Some especially gifted entire nations were zombified, and even now this practice takes place.
    The problem is technical and has technical solutions.
  12. +7
    6 March 2023 11: 28
    What a horror .. yes, "wolves and sheep around", that's for sure ..
    Is it possible to build something perfect with an imperfect substratum led by an imperfect person with absolute power? Of course not..
  13. +6
    6 March 2023 12: 20
    Typical sectarians. That's why I don't like believers. Whatever they believe. Though in Krishna, even in Christ, even in Perun. Because for the sake of their faith, they will go over the corpses without doubt and regret. Even if they say they are doing it for the people, it is a lie! They do everything for the sake of their faith and at the behest of their leaders.
    1. Fat
      +4
      6 March 2023 15: 45
      Quote: acetophenon
      That's why I don't like believers. Whatever they believe. Though in Krishna, even in Christ, even in Perun. Because for the sake of their faith, they will go over the corpses without doubt and regret. Even if they say they are doing it for the people, it is a lie! They do everything for the sake of their faith and at the behest of their leaders.

      hi Atheism, like religion, is a certain system of views, conditioned by faith. Therefore, militant atheism is no less dangerous than, say, Islamic extremism and totalitarian sects. Therefore, I do not distinguish between stubborn atheists and militant religious fanatics. They "do everything for the sake of their convictions and aggressively try to bring the "light of truth" to the "dark savages."
      Yes, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, it's pointless, I just ask you to treat religions and believers more delicately, even if you "do not like" them
      PS, Buddhism is recognized as a religion. Then why does she deny the gods? And Buddhism proclaims it.
      In imperial China, Confucianism played the role of the main religion and the principle of organizing the state for over two thousand years in an almost unchanged form.
      Confucianism is a worldview, social ethics, political ideology, scientific tradition, a way of life, sometimes regarded as a philosophy, sometimes as a religion, but there are no gods in this system.
      1. +10
        6 March 2023 16: 45
        Quote: Thick
        Atheism, like religion, is a certain system of views, conditioned by faith.

        True atheism is not faith, but rationalism.
        In other words, we cannot talk about the existence of God, in any of its manifestations, until we receive satisfactory evidence for this.
        There are no monuments of Slavic writing before Cyril and Methodius - there is no writing.
        There is no clear evidence of the existence of God - there is no God.
        Will be - bring, consider, evaluate. It is possible that we will reconsider our position. But so far there is no reason to revise it.
        1. Fat
          +5
          6 March 2023 20: 34
          hi Greetings, Michael. In our world In order to be a pure rationalist, a person must be absolutely not superstitious and not "creating idols for himself." A complete rejection of everything that can only seem "transcendental" is characteristic of neural networks and units of people ... If you like to have such a software restriction in yourself, I do not consider it possible to interfere, this is an inalienable right ... laughing
          I am also guided by rationalism, and this fully involves finding a solution within the framework of facts, and not conjectures and "I do not multiply entities unnecessarily"
          P.S. Who said that hypothesis building is an unscientific method? If there are confirmations of the hypothesis, it becomes a scientific theory.
          Another thing is that rationalists either do not need the hypothesis of the existence of the transcendental, or believe that they do not need it ... The corpuscular-wave dualism of elementary particles in quantum mechanics is just on the verge of a foul.
          1. +2
            6 March 2023 21: 16
            Quote: Thick
            Who said that hypothesis building is an unscientific method?

            Very scientific too. But only for the construction of these hypotheses, from the point of view of science, certain grounds are required, facts that can be put in its basis, a certain generalization. If this is not the case, then there can be no scientific hypothesis, but only fantasy.
            The concept of "transcendental" for me is synonymous with the concept of "unknowable". The unknowable means that it does not manifest itself in any way in objective reality, otherwise these manifestations could be fixed and studied, that is, cognized. Thus, the main property of the transcendent is its absence in the real world.
            Two questions.
            Why study something that is fundamentally unknowable?
            How to study what is missing in the real world?
            smile
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Fat
              +4
              7 March 2023 00: 32
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              The concept of "transcendental" for me is synonymous with the concept of "unknowable". The unknowable means that it does not manifest itself in any way in objective reality, otherwise these manifestations could be fixed and studied, that is, cognized. Thus, the main property of the transcendent is its absence in the real world.
              Two questions.
              Why study something that is fundamentally unknowable?
              How to study what is missing in the real world?

              transcendent (according to Kant) is something accessible as a result of experience, a thing in itself, KNOWN in principle, but not at a given stage of development.
              transcendental (Kant) - what is fundamentally inaccessible to experimental knowledge, goes beyond the limits of sensory experience, that is, by no means, will never be known miracle generally...
              Close, but not synonymous.
              "We have no methods for Kostya Saprykin" (c)
              It remains only to observe and admire. smile
        2. +3
          7 March 2023 14: 23
          There are no monuments of Slavic writing before Cyril and Methodius - there is no writing.

          But what about the runes in alphabetical order?
          https://dzen.ru/a/YCZR3bGgu1K0iAzt
  14. +6
    6 March 2023 14: 11
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    Is it possible to build something perfect with an imperfect substratum led by an imperfect person with absolute power? Of course not..


    "We will make good out of evil, since there is nothing else to make of it."
    Yes, slowly, but with a lot of blood... that's why it's so important not to allow rollbacks.
  15. +9
    6 March 2023 14: 32
    I never understood who killed the congressman. And the guards who took the rifle from the cop were killed on the runway or alive? Jones is killed from what? An autopsy, as kor1vet1974 (Korneliy) noted, was not performed and the bullet was not seized? What about Ann Moore? The investigation seemed to be led by the guys from...??? Investigation is over - forget it...
    1. +7
      6 March 2023 14: 50
      I never understood who killed the congressman.
      "Whoever stole the umbrella, he sewed the aunt" (c) smile
      1. +9
        6 March 2023 15: 30
        Still a hat. But the essence of this does not change. The phrase is amazing.
        1. +9
          6 March 2023 15: 46
          Still a hat.
          It is necessary to review or re-read .. But the performance, I really like it .. smile
          1. +7
            6 March 2023 18: 46
            .But the performance, I really like it.

            Me too. smile
            1. +5
              6 March 2023 20: 01
              And the musical is good too. And an old movie. You can look and find all new shades.
        2. +5
          6 March 2023 18: 50
          Still a hat.


          It's still an authoritative opinion. wink
  16. Des
    +1
    6 March 2023 20: 13
    This sect fit perfectly into the MKULTRA program.
  17. +7
    6 March 2023 23: 49
    Richard (Richard), dear, it seems that the events of February 12, 1684, in the Kargopol district on the Porma River, when 47 people burned down in Ulyanikh, but the archers from the F.Yu. Kozin was pulled out of the fire by 153 people - this is the basis of the legends of the Vygovskaya community. And then the legends began to be processed into written sources, some of which have survived to this day: "The Story of the Solovki Fathers and Sufferers" (written in the 1710s by Semyon Denisov), "Russian Grapes" (written by him in 1730 - 1734), "History of the Vygovsky desert"...
    For the investigation, 5 Old Believers (including Elder Joseph Sukhoi from Solovki) were left in Kargopol. And 148 people under escort were sent to Kholmogory. 58 people died on the way. The Old Believers in March 1684 brought obedience. The monk Andronik did not submit and, by order of the king, at the end of April 1684 he was burned. After that, the men were sent to the monasteries: Antonievo-Siysky, Nikolo-Korelsky, Spassky Kozieruchevsky and Chernogorsky. Women and children were left in Kholmogory "behind a special guard", as well as three "breeders in the split" Ivan Ulyakhin, Afanasy Boldyrev, Alexei Boldyr ... As Ivan Filippov decided in the "History of the Vygovsky Desert" in the fact that "people were not without temptation and sin in constipation and there was no faith to burn" ...
    The conclusion, as always, is simple: "Women are to blame for everything..."
    True, in 1742, the monk of the Vygovsky skete, Philip, died in the flames, which founded the Filippian consent of the Bespopovtsy in 1737, where self-immolation and starvation were considered martyrdom for the faith ...
    Yes, Guslitsy, which the respected Korsar4 (Sergey), recalled, this is still the end of the 19th century, the center of the Rogozh priestly faith ...
    And Melnikov-Pechersky, from a property relations official in the Ministry of Internal Affairs to a general, consider that he rose to the rank and received the Order of St. Anne of the 1st degree ... an ethnographer, historian, writer, railway designer, a loving father and husband, or a lawless man who confiscated icons and books without registration protocols...
    1. +4
      7 March 2023 07: 15
      Dear Eugene, I'm afraid you misunderstood the meaning of my comment. If he somehow offended your religious feelings, sorry.
      I do not deny the facts of self-immolation, but I am writing to Konstantin that it is not necessary to treat all Old Believers with the same brush in this matter.
      In the villages, both the Old Believers and the Orthodox always lived together and there were no disagreements on this basis between them.
      The best friend of my, to put it mildly, very religious great-grandmother was her age-old Old Believer aunt Frosya "Three stacks", because of her voice and knowledge of old songs, she is an indispensable and welcome participant in all village weddings and celebrations. In our sideboard under a clean napkin, even specially for her parishes, her tableware was stored.
      PS. "Three stacks" - she had such a nickname. A great lover and connoisseur of Cossack traditions and feasts, she never drank more than three shots - she said: "it's impossible, this is already a sin"
  18. +4
    7 March 2023 09: 36
    Quote: Thick
    Atheism, like religion, is a certain system of views, conditioned by faith.


    Atheism generally denies the concept of faith. "Nothing - on faith!"
    Atheism - strict adherence to the principle of the old Occam: "do not multiply the number of entities beyond measure."
    If the order of things can be explained without resorting to the hypothesis of God, then this God must be bracketed out and simply ignored.

    I will say more. Even if God really existed, the most reasonable thing for a person would be to ignore his existence and in no way draw the attention of the Creator to his own person and to the human race as a whole. "Away from the authorities..." well, you get the idea. laughing
  19. +3
    7 March 2023 10: 02
    you didn’t hurt my religious feelings in any way, since I don’t have them, how fashionable today to speak from the word - at all. Like my respected comrades on the site Kote Pan Kokhanka (Vladislav) and the Master of the Trilobite (Mikhail), my worldview was formed under the influence of a very specific and, very often, not rewarding work. For more than a dozen years I have been engaged in detective work, and, like many others, I worked on business trips in different republics of the USSR. For the last 13 years I have been working in a cultural institution. But, it all starts in childhood. Of our entire large family, I am the only one who has not been baptized. Grandmother didn’t take me to church, although the Holy Sretensky Church was never closed for a day in Zaostrovye, Primorsky District, Arkhangelsk Region, from where I have all my ancestors on my father’s side. As my grandmother said, when I was already going to school, she was afraid to ruin my career for my dad. My dad worked at Sevmash, at the evening faculty of the LCI he studied as a mechanic (and everyone understood a mechanic in Severodvinsk = a reactor worker), and my dad joined the party while still serving as an urgent officer in the fleet.
    And the Old Believers always lived a parallel life nearby. The house where dad grew up is No. 13, and the neighboring one, No. 12, is Old Believer. And their cemetery is only 1,5 km away, from our house, near the neighboring village of Nizhnee Ladino, towards the Severodvinsk-Arkhangelsk highway. And from childhood I knew that the Korodskoye settlement on the western shore of Lake Korodskoye was originally an Old Believer. It is today that only the Old Believer cemetery remains from that village, near the store in the largest SNT of Sevmash "Belomor", next to the Rikasikha station on the Arkhangelsk-Severodvinsk railway. And very close to Severodvinsk was the Ambursky skete and the village of Belaya (founded as a skete), which even today is marked on Yandex maps as Beloye, 7 km, approximately east of the Kudemskaya UZhD. Both Ambursky Skete and Belaya today are dachas.
    I am very superficially familiar with the differences between the Bespopovtsy, and they are the majority of the Old Believers in the North. Unfortunately, I only have a small collection of publications from the Moscow State University of Culture and the Kargopol Historical and Architectural Museum based on the abstracts of a scientific conference, a book of memoirs by Ksenia Petrovna Gemp and Maksimov "A Year in the North", but it is edited ugly, many descriptions of nature are thrown out of it and ethnographic sketches, the book has lost 100 pages, compared to the one that the author wrote ...
    Richard (Richard), dear, do you know the word "gypsy"?
    1. +2
      7 March 2023 11: 00
      and you know the word "gypsy"

      the word is what from childhood smile - now almost forgotten. I can’t even formulate it exactly like the type of friends gathered to fray. It?
      1. +2
        7 March 2023 12: 02
        Hi Dima.
        Etymological dictionary of the Russian language by Max Fasmer
        gypsy gypsy!
        Interpretation
        gypsy gypsy!
        gypsy gypsy! so they call the sheep, Olonetsk. (Kulik.), Gypsies, gypsies! - Same. onomatopoeic education.

        I did not find anything else. request
        1. +1
          7 March 2023 12: 37
          Hello Kostya
          here look
          https://slang.su/id/32709
  20. +1
    7 March 2023 12: 01
    Richard (Richard), dear, today there is a district of Arkhangelsk Tsiglomen. Under the USSR - a village between Severodvinsk and Arkhangelsk. And on the old maps the village is indicated: Tsyglomin, Tsyglomyanka, Tsyglomenskaya. During the time of Yagrinlag, a brick factory grew up near Tsiglomeni, where clay was mined in quarries and bricks were fired, and a small village with the name Glinnik. One of my friends, originally from the Cossacks, remembered the word gypsy as a brick for sheds.
    1. 0
      7 March 2023 13: 51
      Testov (Eugene), dear, it’s good to see they lived in those places where your friend came from - once they could afford brick sheds. The great-grandfather left only a house stove for descendants from a brick smile
  21. 0
    8 March 2023 13: 18
    There are sects of all kinds in the world. I often wonder how adepts are brainwashed. Obviously, the starting point is isolation from the outside world.
  22. 0
    8 January 2024 13: 26
    All your “serious researchers” were CIA officers. So many lies!