Roscosmos announced a tender to create a business model for a new Russian orbital station

The Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, which is part of the Roscosmos State Corporation, has announced a tender to create a business model for the new Russian Orbital Station (ROS). The contractor is required not only to do this, but also to fully develop the concept that defines the principles of operation of the space station when it is created.

The tender conditions are described on the public procurement website.

The purpose of the events is to prepare a reasonable position on the intended use and purpose, as well as the business model of the Russian Orbital Station in a manned version for the further formation of technical requirements for the functionality, configuration and consumer qualities of the ROS; identification and analysis of potential stakeholders in the project implementation

- the document says.

The terms of reference assume that the contractor will independently determine the purpose and goals of the station, focusing on global trends in the development of space.

The terms of the tender indicate the initial cost of 9,6 million rubles, and applicants for concluding a contract with RSC Energia will have to name amounts lower than that indicated by the customer.

At the moment, Russia uses the ISS in its space programs, but plans to terminate its participation in this international project in the future. As Yury Borisov, the head of Roskosmos, reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier, this will happen after 2024, but the exact date has not yet been determined.

Comments

[salad]

How sick these tenders are, right now they will be tendering for a hundred years, then they will spend 50 million on a model and everything will quiet down

[Dead duck]

Unfortunately, these "tenders" and other "competitions" were invented for optimization and so that there would be less theft and faster. But in reality...
And what to develop?!... on the basis of the same Mir station, it is quite possible to do it by updating the filling.
The Chinese built themselves and do not complain. The Japanese seem to even have a stash somewhere (a copy).

[Bad_gr]

Quote: salat

How zadolbali these tenders, ....

At work, I came across the results of tenders. Often the tender is won by people far from the topic, who gave the lowest cost of their work. And when they won the tender, they start scratching their heads on how to do it all, looking for cheap labor and buying the cheapest materials for their work. You look at the result - and you can only express yourself with obscenities.

[Last centurion]

They are just trying to find the principles of payback where it simply cannot be. It's like making a tank pay for itself. A tank can self-sustain :), but there’s no way to self-sustain :)
PS: of course, liberals with peaceful tractors are now crowding ... So I suggest to them to put a cannon on the tractor and blow on the CBO

[zloybond]

Indeed - just ordering from a qualified organization will not work))) - They will put gaskets in.

[Grandfather]

Roscosmos announced a tender to create a business model for a new Russian orbital station

gives away "illness" ... "tender" - the minimum price-terms with minimum quality. for "tenders" it's time to shoot. point. angry.

[ramzay21]

This tender shows very well that neither Roskosmos nor the country's leadership understand why we need a space station and what tasks it will perform. It looks more and more like the characters from the movie "Dumb and Dumber"

[Starover_Z]

Quote: zloybond

Indeed - just ordering from a qualified organization will not work))) - They will put gaskets in.

It turns out that in RosCosmos there are only effective menahers left, since third-party organizations should develop the ORBITAL STATION AND ITS FUNCTIONALITY !!!
HAVE DONE!!!

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: salat

How sick these tenders are, right now they will be tendering for a hundred years, then they will spend 50 million on a model and everything will quiet down

What is there to develop? It's been invented for a long time -

The old Komsomol principle - "if you can not fight the phenomenon - lead and organize it." With their attempts to "optimize the use of budgetary funds" they simply kill the whole process in the bud.

As a builder, I am well aware of these "tenders" for construction. Who wins them and why, how they build them, where and how much budget funds are spent, and how much it costs the budget in the end.
That's why I don't deal with public funding. There are a lot of rules, they don’t let you work (work well), you work almost for your own money (if you work well), but to ask, to present claims, in the end, there is no one - everything is "according to the law."
It is easier with private traders - you work for money. You work badly - you got money. You work well - and the job is done, and you received money.
Making everything private is not an option. They tried it in the 90s. Maybe the rules need to be changed? Together with those who monitor their implementation and funding?

[AA17]

The Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, which is part of the Roscosmos State Corporation, has announced a tender to create a business model for the new Russian Orbital Station (ROS).

Sad and sad. The Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, which professionally works in the field of space exploration and receives money from the state budget for this, cannot find its Korolevs and Glushkos. This begs the question: if the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, which was created for specific work in the space sector, does not have its own concept in creating a new Russian orbital station (ROS), then WHO has it in Russia? If the Energia Corporation does not have its own project, then who in Russia will be able to offer their best business plan for the creation of ROS ??? If Energia does not have its own project, then why do we need such a corporation in its current form?

[Ilgizl]

Yes, in my opinion, everything has been around for a long time and ordinary people, including those who, as a rule, work as performers and share with family and friends already know how and why tenders are held ...

[ALARI]

I am tormented by vague doubts. Has there been anything until today? No developments, concepts, nothing at all?

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: ALARI

I am tormented by vague doubts. Has there been anything until today? No developments, concepts, nothing at all?

Very similar to that.
We decided to build, it remains to figure out why.

[Leader_Barmaleev]

Were. And concepts, and developments, and even specific developments. To date, there are only TWO reasons for the existence of a stationary space station, and both reasons are able to actually pay for it: 1. Obtaining metal alloys and metal-non-metal compounds in microgravity conditions, which are fundamentally impossible on the surface of the planet - no one has canceled the law of Archimedes. 2. Growing ultrapure crystals with ideal structure. Which, incidentally, is what the Americans are doing in their part of the ISS. As you understand, the need for such materials is only in the field of microelectronics, in other areas of PRODUCTION such materials are not yet in demand. It is these materials that make it possible to obtain processors with unique properties. The public sector of the Russian economy so far not only does not pull such processes, it is not even able to comprehend them. That is why they are looking for an INVESTOR who is ready to raise Russian microelectronics from scratch and invest in a business project that is understandable to him. At present, we have crumbs and leftovers from the ISS from the program with which the Yankees remove fatty foams. It's embarrassing for us. And there is such a game.

[Ady66]

Probably the law is not Archimedes, but Newton.

[Leader_Barmaleev]

On the surface of the planet, silicon over tungsten and aluminum over iron will float precisely according to the law of Archimedes and will not mix. And in weightlessness, they penetrate into each other's structure without problems. In weightlessness, you can even mix sodium with tungsten, though I don’t know why, but the alloy turns out to be very unique.

[Kaufman]

What funds will be used to build the station? When no partner-sponsors were found for the checkmate and armata

[_simply]

Do not surf the expanses of the Universe for us.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: _simply

Do not surf the expanses of the Universe for us.

Capitalism is not eternal.

[Ady66]

Believe me, comrade, it will pass,
so-called glasnost!
And then state security,
remember your names!

[Leader_Barmaleev]

Quote: _simply
Do not surf the expanses of the Universe for us.

Capitalism is not eternal.

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with it. Exclusively anatomy, physiology and the principle of expediency. So, the nearest star to us (except for the Sun) Proxima Centauri (aka Flying Barnard) is 4,2 light years from us. Let's assume that humanity has reached the technical level of creating a ship that can fly this distance and return back. How long do you think it will take? I will answer this question a little later, but for now, take it for granted that with an acceleration of 1,8 G, a person’s digestion is completely turned off. The maximum acceleration that a person can withstand for a long time without the appearance of specific pathologies is 1,12G. That is, ideally, the ship should strive to the speed of light with an acceleration of 1 G, it will take 89 years to reach the speed of light, after which it will fly at the speed of light for some time and then slow down for 98 years. And this is one way. For some time, the valiant astronauts will surf the open spaces near the CLOSEST star to us and fly back with the same difficulties. Something tells me that in 400-500 years no one will need the results of this expedition. All hope for physicists - suddenly they will dig up new physical principles of furrowing (boring ... harrowing) of the universe? But they are still nowhere to be seen. And the state does not give money to search for these principles... It's sad.

[Andriuha077]

at an acceleration of 1,8 G, digestion is completely turned off in a person

Something came to mind. (Of course, the heroes of the Strugatskys always took a break for lunch in acceleration?)

- You went with overloads, all the time with acceleration. Therefore, you were in the gravitational field all the time. So?
- I'll just tell you this. No one knew before us how time behaves in systems moving at an accelerated rate. There were only different special cases. You know how they write: “Thus, under some particular assumptions about the force field ...” and so on. And now we know, we have proved by experience, that at high accelerations at near-light speeds it is possible to control time. You can make it so that the starship will return in a hundred years, and the pilots will age a year. Something like this will happen with Bykov and Gorbovsky. They will return young, but the Earth will grow old. They have very little acceleration. And if you fly the way we flew, everything will be the other way around. The aged pilot returns to his still young wife. OK, did I explain everything to you?
- Great! - I said.
- Am I great?
- Great! - I said.
Am I the head of the family?
- Surely!

I spent fourteen seconds longer in Space than the earth clock recorded. I told Gorbovsky about this on the eve of the start of the Second Star. Gorbovsky raised his finger and intoned:
A rocket was launched into space today.
She flies twelve times faster than light.
And reach the goal at six in the morning -
Yesterday.

“Yes, seven times,” I confirmed. Or eight times. Or ten...

"It's hard," Porta concluded calmly.
It was so hard that sometimes it seemed that we would not survive. For the first few months, I slowly built up the acceleration. Mikimi and Zavyalov compiled a program for cybernetic control, and the acceleration automatically increased by one percent per day. I was hoping we could at least get used to it a little. This turned out to be impossible. Bones cracked, muscles could not bear the weight of the arms. We had to give up solid food and ate broths and juices.

“Enough,” he croaked. - The port is bad. He may die. Shut down the reactor, Saburo.
“Up to three times,” I ordered.
Saburo, barely moving his fingers, scratched at the console with his nails. And suddenly it got easier. Delightfully easy!
- Triple acceleration.

- Nuclear rocket! he exclaimed in astonishment. - What's happened? Where?
“Yes, yes,” the assistant said hesitantly. “Really… I don’t understand…”
The outlandish construction with five thick pipes-columns sticking out from under the dome slowly turned. Under the dome, a lilac glow trembled, the columns appearing black against it. The dispatcher slowly lowered himself onto the armrest of his chair. Of course it was a nuclear missile.
A century and a half ago there were many such planetships. They were built to explore the planets. Solid, unhurried machines with a fivefold margin of safety. They served long and well, but the last of them were dismantled a long, long time ago...
– I wonder if nothing was missing from the Museum of Cosmogation?

Thanks to the people who created the ramjet. Thanks to the people who created our beautiful world and created us the way we are.
Here are just Bykov and Gorbovsky... They will return when we are gone, but I think they will not be angry with us.
http://www.rusf.ru/abs/books.htm

[Leader_Barmaleev]

It was a good time - it was a good dream and it was not yet known about the fences with which our nature surrounded us. But in the 70s there was already a complete understanding of the impossibility of interstellar flights on the principles of classical physics and human physiology. It's just that the topic was not exaggerated - there was no need to take away a dream from humanity. And then it turned out that there really wasn’t a dream either - the dream was about a hole in the sky from which money would pour, and, of course, about sole ownership of this hole. And will there be more...

[Batko_Makhno]

Tender, who will come up with the best model for the next cut of public money

[leks]

So recently there was news from the Republic of Kazakhstan that in 2028 they will begin to assemble a new station in orbit.
RIA News
"Construction of a new Russian Orbital Service Station (ROSS) will begin no earlier than 2028," General Designer for Manned Systems and Complexes of the Russian Federation, General Designer of RSC Energia, Vladimir Solovyov, said in an interview with Russkiy Kosmos magazine.

Earlier it was reported that the launch of the first module could take place in 2027-2028.

“We propose to build it in two stages. If the decision on its construction is made before the end of the year, then the first stage will begin in 2028 with the launch of the Scientific and Energy Module by the Angara-A5M launch vehicle,” Solovyov said.

Then it will also display the Nodal and Gateway modules. The first will be similar to the module that is already part of the International Space Station. The second will be used for spacewalks."

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: leks

So recently there was news from the Republic of Kazakhstan that in 2028 they will begin to assemble a new station in orbit.
RIA News
"The construction of a new Russian orbital service station (ROSS) will begin no earlier than 2028

With our "resourcefulness" this very "concept" will be created just in time for 2028. Everything is there - both money and people. There is no only desire to do it quickly and well. As in the 90s they did "like theirs", so we still feed the army of parasites with tenders and grants.

[Quote Lavrov]

BUSINESS MODEL, WHAT IS IT??? In fact - a plan for its self-sufficiency or what? This is not even the creation of design and technical documentation
And what kind of tender is this, isn’t Roscosmos itself supposed to write this plan? How can any other person know what business goals the plant will have? Well, it’s just that everything in this purchase screams that the prosecutor’s office should already request all the documentation for it !!!

[for]

Quote: Quote Lavrov

BUSINESS MODEL, WHAT IS IT??? In fact - a plan for its self-sufficiency or what?

In my opinion, space is a lost cause in the present, but will bring profit in the future, as an investment in the future generation

[_simply]

Really. Space is science first and foremost. Science studies any processes. Expands the horizons of knowledge. At the initial stage, all science is unprofitable. Well, understandable, right? Business and space science intersect only in part, sideways. Space tourism there, commercialized scientific works. But, this is all, as you noticed, in the future ...

[kit88]

the contractor will independently determine the purpose and goals of the station, focusing on global trends in the development of space

Our state does not know why it needs an orbital station?!
Are global trends required?
It is unlikely that a businessman is interested in fundamental science, whose works find practical application in 50-100 years.
But to shoot a film and give a ride to a tourist is another matter, only in this case you need a commercial barrel, with a share of the state.

[spirit]

Our state does not know why it needs an orbital station?!

Well, it’s not like we’re going to deep space. The USA and China use these stations to collect experience and information for further flights already into deep space, the Americans are already flying to the moon and China is just going this way. We have a lot of experience, but we’ll fly farther than orbit we can’t (it’s still impossible to build a dacha on the moon like in Gelendzhik? Here are our technologies in opera). There, private traders are going to build a hotel in orbit or something like that. Here we’ll build something like that.

[Amateur]

A tender will be announced. It will be won by a certain company of 3 people, created on April 1, 2023. But the firm is so competent that it will be headed by the son of the "doctor of technical sciences" D.O. Rogozin, or maybe he himself.
Although Y. Borisov may have his own nomenclature of "doctors".

[megadeth]

It is necessary to create a combat Russian orbital station, coupled with an orbital weapon ("Death Star", followed by music from Star Wars, sarcasm), in order to, if anything, strike from space on the territory of the FSA and NATO or fill up something in orbit. In parallel, let them mock bugs and plants in space ... IMHO

[for]

A good deal will not be called a tender....................................... ................................................

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: for

A good deal will not be called a tender.............

The scratch with the tender is reminiscent of the scratching of Honduras.

[Daishi]

8=8=%=:*-+8 I drew a business model, give me money

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

All the stupidity of today's system in one tender.
We must have a long-term strategy for the development of applied and fundamental sciences. Based on this strategy, the needs for Roscosmos in general and for the orbital station in particular should be determined. No one prevents us from supplementing these needs with the wishes of other ministries.
But this, of course, if there, at the top, they were doing business. And since mamo sho maemo - these are the tenders

[S. Viktorovich]

One thing is clear, Roskosmos does not know why and who needs this same orbital station. We need a tender to change the structure of Roskosmos and to attract specialists to take the place of the current "effective managers".

[APASUS]

How many these models have already been worked out, how much idle talk there was. To produce an ultra-pure substance for medicines, to obtain materials with super characteristics, and everything ends up clean - to shoot movies and saw grandmas !!!

[Mazunga]

no, but the scheme is working))) the mouth opened on the beaver and fedora filok the car was loaded and it was very convenient to go to the alik for the prototypes

[Glory1974]

How could Sergei Palych Korolev fly into space without a business model?

[donavi49]

Korolev and others flew to Space using the budget. The budget was drawn up on the basis of bread and water for the people and everything for the military, as well as prestigious / display projects that will show the superiority of the ideas of the USSR.

Today you can do the same. Only the people will rise en masse.

[Dedok]

Quote: donavi49

Only the people will rise en masse.

do you think so or just think?
then I decided to watch Besogon from February 13 ... after 10 minutes I stopped - the size of greed did not surprise me ..

[donavi49]

Well, let's cut off half your salary. We will introduce queues for refrigerators, televisions, computers and furniture. And without much choice - there is nothing to sort through. We will withdraw from sale all sorts of frills - which the working person does not need and distracts from work.

[I dare to_notice_]

Wow!
Cool...
They know that they need to launch something into space, but what? and, most importantly, for what? .. Who knows.
"Let's test with him" (T.G. Sheva)
ABOUT! I have a suggestion: let's create "MacDrive" there (at the station)?!
And modern. And cool. And it pays off quickly.

[Mazunga]

here they wanted to get money into the budget one-time from commerce, and they immediately in a pose, yes you sho where the money is, what kind of super-profits do we wash down the last unsalted smoky with tears with tears)))) Shokhin almost became Orthodox from amazement and you are here about some kind of death stars

[m.cempbell]

Those. Roscosmos itself does not know what to do with the space station? Marketers were dumb before engineers "this is a turn." Fuck it, so sell it to the Chinese or Indians, as you sell everything now, they will instantly figure out why they need it

[Alexey Sommer]

It's just a hand!
Darwin Award to the studio to the authors of this tender.
I really want to know the name of the author!
And how many such tenders are we not even aware of?...

Everything is rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark.

[evgen1221]

Self-sufficiency? It's like, we build and ride tourists until you're blue in the face? All-business plan is ready. Where is the cash desk to get money for developing a plan?

[donavi49]

There is one catch - what are the competitive advantages?

For example, Axium will have a luxury hotel in orbit and spacewalks in tourist spacesuits (well, we are in the future, Axium is working on this, and in 23 there will be an exit in standard spacesuits, but a tourist). Polaris has world records (the highest orbit - they will fly in July, they will beat the record and take 1400 km), as well as flights with a flyby of the moon.

What attracts your business plan?

[Alex242]

Quote: salat

How sick these tenders are, right now they will be tendering for a hundred years, then they will spend 50 million on a model and everything will quiet down

still sometimes remember

[Alex242]

Quote: evgen1221

Self-sufficiency? It's like, we build and ride tourists until you're blue in the face? All-business plan is ready. Where is the cash desk to get money for developing a plan?

the pressure is no longer on science, but on business ....

[Oleg Apushkin]

Rogozin and Manturov are already rubbing their hands. One will send everyone to the trampoline, the other will make a bundle and everyone will be happy, except for the people.

[Dedok]

announced a tender to create a business model for a new Russian orbital station

answer me one question: what is the business model of the orbital station?
and without this model - the designer - they cannot work?
or do you need to cut some 10 lyams - and cut them in front of everyone?
what kind of nonsense is the so-called. Roscosmos "management"?

[AdAstra]

Everything has already been commented on here, so I'll just laugh with a nervous laugh

[Knell wardenheart]

I think that all these dances around "ROSS" are the apogee of shaking the air to an almost material state in our astronautics.
In the foreseeable future, "ROSS", like "Nuklon" and "Storm" and the base on the Moon, will not be built. Over_dohrena of such projects, from which the "patricks" get skin hair and take off their hats themselves, but they all have the same fate and purpose - to shake the imagination and inspire morale. Then, at the stage between a spectacular model and a discussion of costs and nuances of production, they melt in the dawn haze, giving way to new rainbow pictures.
It’s simple and on the fingers - we have a bunch of projects that are much older and in a better (sort of) stage of readiness than ROSS "written on the water with a pitchfork". where is "Luna-25" (I will not leave it behind), where is the "Federation", where is the "Nuklon" in any version - with a turbine, with thermal emission? Where are the "lunar projects" that have been postponed-shifted almost since 2014? After all, under them something is made and lies, gathering dust. Years, decades.
And now let's imagine "ROSS" - how many years will they suck the layout? How much later to coordinate, test the production of individual modules and assemblies. It-can't-be-done-quickly. Plus, the modest budget of our ROSCOSMOS within the modest budget of the state will somehow hint that other tasks may appear (and they will appear, wow!), and the deadlines will be shifted to ... to the right, of course.
For other tasks - building up and updating GLONASS, early warning systems, reconnaissance satellites and inspector satellites, a program similar to the American X-37, etc. Investments in the development of reusable media, at least medium and heavy class. Finally, yes, one way or another, reaching out for the ears of the Lunar project, until everyone stakes out there.
So IMHO - we will sit in the ISS as long as possible, and shake ROSS like a bogeyman, trying to scare the enemies and inspire our own.

[Master 2030]

Roscosmos announced a tender to create a business model for a new Russian orbital station

Isn't it easier to create an orbital station right away?

[Kuzmitsky]

So for the creation of the station they immediately took it. But then a tender was announced so that the contractor would figure out what to do next with it "taking into account world trends" and how to quickly recoup.

[Knell wardenheart]

Now we need a purely technical station for growing crystals in microgravity and repairing in orbit those of our devices that would otherwise repair a fierce hemorrhoid. Perhaps some biological experiments, but this one has a less obvious commercial outcome "in the short term." Here we could play the same crystals quite well, put the matter on stream (if it doesn’t come in handy ourselves, but it will come in handy).
So at least 2 payback directions are clear and do not require unnecessary sucking.
Other areas cause me insane skepticism, both taking into account the "quality" of doing business by ROSCOSMOS, and taking into account the specifics of the international situation in relation to us for the foreseeable years, and possibly decades (s).
Under tourism, it is not serious to consider. "Burgeois" will not fly in excess of homeopathic quantities, and this direction will be immediately intercepted by Musk-Bezos with much brighter options.
Under pure science - it would be cool if we didn’t have it in such a .. in such a corral, in short. Not so much even science, but the junction of our own science, which sits on water and crackers, and our own production, which has drained dry to the Chinese, Turks and Europe. This junction is not interested in a wide portfolio of orders for ROSS (it will most likely be), due, among other things, to the shrinking external market of our conditionally "high-tech". I do not think that ROSATOM and the oil industry would have loaded these capacities for years to come. Yes, and the military will have much more mundane tasks.
Under research, fundamental and other "spherical in a vacuum" things like prestige and respect in a purely scientific world - here business is not at all in business, that's it. We have business investments in pure funds. research (even in comparison with the state, not thick, by the way) is frankly liquid. So here the dialogue with business is simply ridiculous.

What other options are there? I do not see them. Biological research? Hypothetically - yes, also an option. However, a cursory review of the kakbe industry hints at a large furry state paw behind most of it - and why then ask business about something? Does the state themselves not understand why we might need such a cheerful toy with a bunch of light bulbs?
Painfully all this looks like a tug-of-war! The tasks of the product are obvious - there is no need to crush sisi, you need to do it. But we prefer to crush.

[Two]

How will they create it? The USSR had everything of its own, but forgive what we are producing now, we won’t be able to make a snowstorm even now. Although VVP said that in the USSR they only knew how to make galoshes, now I’ll see how they make the station themselves on their components and it will become clear who even galoshes will not be able to do it, and who were the first to go into space and built their own station.

[cmax]

Why bother with this tender. Contact the Mask, he will do everything.